This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what's going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we'll be talking with Harry Varwijk.
Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you'll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.First of all, today let's cover what's going on in our industry. Adult industry colleagues are rallying behind a GoFundMe campaign launched to assist Tim Lutz, the well-known community figure and co-founder of cyber socket with rising expenses. As he battles a recent diagnosis of brain cancer, the discovery and removal of a tumor in his brain has just become part of his journey.
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And he refuses to succumb to fear notes. The intro from the GoFundMe campaign page for the past 30 years of his life, Tim has been consciously implementing a mindset to elevate his frequency and learn how to enjoy a better quality of life. He's come to realize that when he exists in a pure state of love, he serves a purpose. His purpose to be love gives him the strong will to live a long, healthy and joyful life Tim's plan is to not only survive, but to also thrive. Although Lutz has health insurance is out of pocket medical costs and other expenses are rapidly rising. It has always been easier for me to give and difficult for me to ask for help.
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Thank you. In advanced all of my angels for your donations. He said, I am humbled and grateful for all of you and appreciate your consideration. Compassion, heartfelt kindness, and loving hearts, cyber socket, the pioneering LGBTQ publisher let's co-founded with Morgan summer celebrates its 25th anniversary. Next January donate to his GoFundMe campaign by searching for Tim Lutz that's L U T Z on fund me expert as award-winning performer, entrepreneur and pervert.com. Owner Lance Hart has launched his latest venture. Get me into porn.com with a stated aim to teach and train the next generation of performers.
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How to navigate the wild wild world of adult. The new site utilizes the combined experience of performers, directors and producers. Candlebox Mickey Mohd, Todd Moore, Aiden, and heart among others member se this include video interviews and anonymous messaging system, online tutorials and mentorship by Regal and longstanding personalities in the adult industry said heart. I'm so excited to get this project launched and out into the world. He said during the pandemic, we've seen a huge influx of self-produced and amateur performers take up sex work to help make ends meet, and it found how extremely lucrative it can be.
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Naturally many are ready to take the next step into professional productions, and we want to educate them on how to do it safely properly, and show them how to make their experience as positive as possible. He noted weekly updates are planned and affiliate program offers performers cam and clip sites, a $25 payout for referrals. Visit get me into porn.com and email Lance at perv out that's P E R V O U t.com. For more details, the free speech coalition inspire program will host a webinar on tax preparation for adult industry workers tomorrow at 11:00 AM. Pacific time led by FSC industry relations advocate, Lotus lane with bookkeeper, Jesse Hornby tax preparer, Lauren foo Magali and adult industry laborers and artists association, founder, Mary Moody.
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In addition to discussing and answering questions on tax filing issues, the group will speak to how performers can take advantage of forgivable loans from the PPP loan program. A rep explained and noted Fumagalli is a veteran performer and IRS enrolled agent. With 16 years of tax experience lane described the 2020 as a highly unusual financial year. For many performers, we've been getting so many questions online. We decided to put together an expert panel to discuss last minute filing issues for 2020, as well as PPP loans and strategies for reducing your tax burden in the year to come sex work is real work lane said, adult industry workers deserve the same resources and guidance as those who run mainstream businesses and the same support from the government.
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This panel will help our workers understand how to access COVID support, better protect their businesses and legally reduce their tax burden. Visit free speech coalition.com for more detail, and to register. Now let's feature our property the week that's for sale at adult site broker adult site broker is proud to offer for sale and adult pay site review platform. The site offers top discounts to the hottest networks and adult entertainment. In addition, they offer full length scenes to these sites. So surfers can sample the content. Also the scenes serve to keep the visitors engaged longer on the site. Then the traditional review site, they offer outstanding prices to adult networks on behalf of their visitors.
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1 (6m 47s):
Now time for this week's interview,
2 (6m 50s):
My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Harry VAR. Weich Harry, thanks for being with us today and adult site broker talk,
3 (6m 58s):
Thank you for having me here. So mother
2 (7m 1s):
Now, now Harry's been in the business since 2000 and in live cam, since their inception, Harry wears many hats. He's alive cam webmaster for the night prowl studio network. He maintains websites for his company's in-house models through an affiliate marketing program. He does live cam consultancy for cherry.tv. He performs content guarding of tube sites and doing DMC tasks. He's part of the AWS summit team and he does media bias, Lincoln traffic traits, and I'm getting tired here and he maintained sponsor relationships of ADW media. So I guess I should ask you Harry, what you do in your free time
3 (7m 42s):
Playing games. That's a way to unwind.
2 (7m 47s):
There you go. Okay. Now let's start with one of your projects, cherry TV. Now this is one of the newer campsites out there. Why don't you tell me more about this platform and how it's different from some of its competitors?
3 (8m 2s):
Well, the platform itself is, is not debt different from competitors. So it is a freemium platform, which means that models have this other way of broadcasting instead of being on a premium website. The difference here, however, is that the management behind cherry TV is based, based and build up with marketing experts from industry mainstream and adults. They have a combined experience of more of more than 20 years, which is, which is pretty, pretty much needed to upset the Lifecare markets, because this is what charity view is going to do. They are going to upset the life care markets, meaning the bigger premium science house have always done.
3 (8m 52s):
They're very good, but it is time it time for a little bit of change. And especially because the game-ification part of the web site adds a new layer to the whole webcam experience itself rewards the spenders and it rewards the models. The reward system is also different than other webcam science, meaning even if a model is online and she has contributed her time to the website, but she did not earn any revenue. She will still receive a reward. She will still be compensated for her time.
2 (9m 34s):
That's fantastic from a model standpoint.
3 (9m 37s):
Absolutely. And I think a Bartel needs to focus on models and her needs and especially regarding payouts daily payouts is, is, is just one of the things which separates them from the big box campsites, right? One pressure on a button and, and, and 20 minutes later you have your money too. That's great. Yes, it is. It is.
2 (10m 5s):
That brings, that brings daily payouts to a new level.
3 (10m 10s):
Yes. And I think it's, it matches a little bit the situation off the mouth. I mean, sometimes they are four or five days of life and not making money and still waiting for the periodic payouts. Then why not hit the bail button on the moment you go on a holiday. So you have your cash always with you. Nice, nice.
2 (10m 34s):
Now it seems there's a new campsite. Every time I turn around, what's the state of the live cam market now.
3 (10m 43s):
Okay, well, we are still maturing. Meaning webcam sites are still trying to serve and the audience and the models at the same time. I mean, let's say it like this. We, we have the goal to give pleasure on, on a cam site and measures is just a shortened of sensation. What we want to attribute is to have a happiness feeling. That's a web web site has a relation with the webcam model that she feels secure. That is really important to have.
3 (11m 24s):
And I do agree with you every time you work, them sites come up, but they disappear also just as, just as fast people are overestimating the markets, definitely they think, wow, I put up a domain, I put up a script and boom, the money rolls in. This is just not how it works. You practice always. Absolutely.
2 (11m 48s):
Now do you think there's still an opportunity for new people to come in and start a live cam site and make money?
3 (11m 56s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think this year, new, new webcam sites will come up too, that there are always people who she enough opportunity and there is always a rainbow with a pot of gold on yet, but you just have to go for it. The marketing responsibility, the energy that comes in to make a brand run online. It's tremendous. I mean, I'm a little bit of webcams side needs to understand that in the first two years, they will hardly make any profit at all. All the money will go back into development, into maintenance staff people.
3 (12m 36s):
So I encourage people always to start new projects. But I do know that if I don't see these qualifications in them, which good websites have that I will see them disappear at the end of the year, I got used to that. We have seen at least 15 people come and 15 people go in in the last five years alone.
2 (12m 59s):
Now starting a new webcam site, if you want to do it right, obviously it takes a ton of money. If you were starting in the business fresh today, where would you invest your money?
3 (13m 13s):
I would invest my money in making relations with cam models that already have a strong representation online. And I would probably try to invest money in having them on my portal to, to get some first attention. I would invest my money in their social media because they already have a tremendous amount of clients that have trust in them. And I will do my best to keep those models on my sites and, and try to have them generate traffic.
2 (13m 43s):
Now you do affiliate marketing for models. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You were saying
3 (13m 51s):
No, no, no problem. I just wanted to say that. It sounds easier as that it really is. Of course.
2 (13m 57s):
Okay. Now will you cut out for a second? Sorry. You do affiliate marketing for models. How exactly does that work?
3 (14m 7s):
Okay, well, this is a really wide topic. I will give you a small example is a model
2 (14m 16s):
We got, we got time. Go for it. Okay.
3 (14m 18s):
If, if the model works individual from home, her first contact with the sponsor is cited as a model. Then when she goes into her member promo tools, you will also find options to hire her payouts by sending traffic directly to her room through, through, and the campaign link here is where it becomes interesting because many models missed the opportunity to sign up as an monster on the website. They are working as a model so they can actually add an extra layer of income, which is around 25, 30% to the general revenue damn making gift at clients.
3 (15m 5s):
As long as they become an affiliate, I can set up and own that site. They can make a promo call tool. They can have a chat widget with just Dem inside, put on their own websites under the affiliate code. So they build up an excellent defense, which 90% of the models are missing on this moment right now. So what I'm doing is I'm telling the models, Hey, look, here's where your opportunities are. Here's where you can sign up as a webmaster. Here is where you can download a WordPress application. And here is a module hosts with a $10 package a month to get you independent.
3 (15m 47s):
And then they actually try it out. And they find out that besides selling their own webcam that time they can also put for party product products on their own website and make income with other programs and shallowly. They are not only a webcam model, but they are also webmaster of their own sites. So it it's, it's just about adding opportunities to, to, to their account and taking profits from the fact that they already have spending clients. And if, if a model decides to be on a holiday for her clients can still go to her website, try some other products or spend time with another girl, but the model will still be rewarded for it.
3 (16m 35s):
So she can allow her men, her models, or their members to cheat with other models. And she gets an income from it. How, how widely is this done in the industry? Not very widely it's here is where on the communities on the chem communities here is where it stagnates, meaning a contact between a model and a contact between the webmaster is being seen as a competitive fit. And I have no idea why, and I don't know why they keep keeping this feeling up, but model that webmasters are taking that time, that we only want to work together with them.
3 (17m 16s):
So we can have some free sessions in their group, which is completely absurd when we are not into a context like this, we just want to put out traffic on a webcam model that knows how to generate it. So when I go into the cam community in the cam communities, and, and I'm actually speaking with a model that has, has done a lot of work, it has experienced, then I will propose an extra, additional income to her website. And we've her experience-based. She gets the point. She understands, Oh, I can also become a web master of my own product.
3 (18m 1s):
And it's it's, it has to do with the experience and how people she webmasters and his industry, and 80 to 90% sees us as competition. And they make comments like, okay, you sent us traffic, but you take a part of our income. Why you do that? And then we have to tell them, yeah, but this is what the site emphasizes. While you work on that, they have their own traffic. Where do you think your traffic comes from? It comes from the webmasters. Okay. I agree. Some campsites have their own in-house marketing department for all in-house traffic, so they don't have to pay webmasters for it. But a majority of the traffic still comes from the affiliates.
2 (18m 44s):
That's awesome. That's something I had never heard before. Now. Now content piracy is a big issue today. How much of your time is spent on that area of your business? And how's it going
3 (18m 59s):
Way too much? The DCMA tasks are taking way too much time, especially because we have to communicate with a market that hides behind a wall, a lot of Russian communication, which goes into nothing. I can say that 60% of the videos are being removed successfully within four weeks. And I think at least 40 options. And I'm pretty sharp on this number around 40% ignores my request and they will play it out as, as, as long as they can.
3 (19m 40s):
Of course, I have to go to channels like Google and hosting, and I have to come up with documentation stamps and all that stuff. It takes way too much time. And it's a nice, not sure position for this too. I mean, but sometimes these services are hand in hand with the scamming webmasters, meaning they steal on the other sides and they go into a forum and offer that removal. Sure. There's still another personality. So you are dealing with the fee and you are dealing with the person who's who, who claims to clean up the mess, defeat me. And in the meantime, you're all talking to one in the same person.
3 (20m 21s):
So it's a, it's, it's a, it's a portion of a work that I rather not have comes with. A lot of stress comes with emotions. I could go without it to be almost. Yeah.
2 (20m 34s):
Yeah. That's gotta be really frustrating. Especially if it's one in the same person.
3 (20m 40s):
Yes, yes, absolutely. The research that goes into it and the energy and efforts that you have to do, they are not, and they don't give you a shit affectional feeling at all.
2 (20m 51s):
When freemium websites popped up, how much panic did you feel considering the sites you owned were
3 (20m 59s):
Premium? I can tell you honestly, when the first premium side popped up, I was just being happy with, with my lifetime revenue spenders on the premium science on the moment I saw chatter beds coming up, my world literally turned upside down. I, I had problems accepting them, meaning it took me at least one and a half till two years before I decided to really examine the science and to check the affiliate program. But in the beginning I was not happy with it. I knew that it will crash a few of my lifetime, spend this into nothing, which obviously it did.
3 (21m 44s):
And I was forced to go along with it, but it took me almost two years mentally before I started to accept that this is how it was, was not a nice feeling. Now, when I look back, I'm pretty extreme, happy that freemium has come up. It's it's it has given results and situations, which I didn't foresee that would happen. And I'm really happy. It did.
2 (22m 15s):
It's obviously a tried and true format.
3 (22m 19s):
Absolutely. Yes. Every portal has his own group of models. You have freemium models and you have premium models. Freemium models are mostly younger, have more creativity, exploit the industry more in their own benefits and premium is really one-on-one. So it's pretty exclusive. It's like a girlfriend experience. You can not put more creativity in there. It's like a talk with a shrink. Now
2 (22m 51s):
They're both freemium and premium cam sites, which ones are doing better.
3 (22m 57s):
You mean which one is in my eyes? The best freemium website?
2 (23m 1s):
No, between just the model of freemium and the model of premium, which ones do you think are doing better? And why is that? And of course you can tell me who you think the best star of, of each, each model.
3 (23m 18s):
Well, let's, let's stay on this example of charter badge because that science has earned their position in the market. Even if it brought me some competitive thinking in the beginning, I think they have improved the situation for models. I am not comparing chanter bank with anything else. So D they are on top for me, for the freemiums and the other sites. I really give much attention for wow. Our top priority. Why? Because since 2008, they, they have intensified a diminishment towards models and, and webmasters by having forums online for just us, by communicating with us a lot, asking feedback, coming with customized promo tools, coming with upgrades, I would say life just meaning chapter Bay are the two top sites and it's regarding freemium and premium.
3 (24m 22s):
That will be that, that will be not much of a change in, in this year.
2 (24m 28s):
Well, what do you think? Which, which of the two models do you think is better though?
3 (24m 33s):
And, and on, on what kind of a model, what kind of performer you are? I, I would say free freemium is a good start for people who are new in this industry. So they can develop an identity. They, if they, they can find a role in which they, they, they prefer best on a line. And I, I, I, I do think that people going to premium do best when they have experienced from the freemium. This is regarding communication, how to talk to a client, how, how to connect with him on an emotional level, how to entice them to provoke and to flirt.
3 (25m 16s):
This is, this is something that is on premium, more on the focus and on freemium. It is more a group show. It's it's it's you, you, you chip in together with, with other guys to keep the show going and to keep her having this loss in, in, in her private areas. It's, it's, it's a different kind of sensation premium service I've seen in service are, are, are trying to chase premium is exclusive. One-on-one, it's, it's more personal than, than freemium. So it's these two differences also splits up the models.
3 (25m 59s):
You have models who are open to, to be exclusive with, with, with one person to open themselves up and to be entertaining and, and, and enticing on freemium. There is not much of the intelligence needed to, to keep this person in the room. It's if one leaves your chat room, two, others will come in. So it's it's about what, what does Sherver is, is, is trying to search for exclusivity or just a quick Wang. And this is where freemium and premium are different from each other. It's the exclusive freedom.
2 (26m 39s):
If you were starting a cam site today, which one would you pick and why?
3 (26m 46s):
Yeah. Which business model I would pick, I would pick the freemium because I will reach a wide audience regarding performance and service. And I will definitely stay away from premium because it's, it's expensive to two brands. It comes with a different business model. I would be more shaved to go for a Freeman side. Yeah. Sorry. I want to say, especially because the big premium players already taken that place, they already won the trust of a large group of spenders.
3 (27m 31s):
And they will keep that trust for, for years to come. So to come up with a premium side right away, and to declare war and competition, that's not going to help. I will definitely go for the freedom to start off with.
2 (27m 44s):
Now, when you found out that models had no idea that most traffic comes from webmasters, how did you feel? And what did you do about it?
3 (27m 55s):
To be honest in the beginning, it was a little bit frustrated because as a webmaster, you search continuously for acknowledgement of your position here in the market, and you just want to be seen, or you just want to be a part of success. So when a life has made client, Hey, we are so big EDI. We, we webmasters of five, just me and the, we want to take some credit for, for, for that too. Right. We want to say, Hey, it was all in a joint joint efforts to make it big. Now you need to repeat the question. Can the girls, I was a little bit distressed by your question.
2 (28m 41s):
Okay. So when you, okay, will you, when you found out models had no idea that most traffic came from webmasters, how did you feel? And then what did you do about it?
3 (28m 53s):
Yeah. Okay. So the part, what do we do about it? We are still trying to install a short of an idea of what a landmark.
2 (29m 4s):
Okay. Like, so, so when you talked earlier about going on the boards and things like that,
3 (29m 10s):
You speak to individual person, they all have their opinions and they all think different about it. What I do know this, I can community foremost, together, they can share experiences. They can share problems, they have or solutions, but to communicate between demand and supply. And that is not being a stable established on communities. It is however, a great place for a woman to talk with another woman and, and share some experiences on that they have on different websites. There is no such thing as them trying to market themselves more and, and communicating towards webmaster seems that there is still an invisible wall between two people.
4 (29m 58s):
Do you react to charge backs and drops in sales that are on
3 (30m 2s):
Unexpected? Well, Louisa, I can be very honest. A chargeback feels like somebody is kicking me so hard in the balls and crying for the day. Stucco or chargeback is, is a personal thing. It's you start to doubt your models, the quality you start to think. Did I do something wrong in the click flow on my sites? Did I gave him the feeling he had to spend? Was he manipulated a chargeback, comes with a tremendous amount of emotions during the years. Of course it becomes part of the game, but it still feels incredibly professional.
3 (30m 46s):
And yes, I understand stair damage fraud online. And mostly when I requested sites to investigate the charge back into give me an exact reason, I will be happy when it says one of those stolen cards, then I'm like, okay, cool. That's that's nice. The guy got this money back. The bank did the responsible thing. This is how the industry should work. I, if it, if, if it comes like, yeah, he was manipulated by a model, he was cheated. I feel personally bad because I did brought him to do website. I did told him he would have a great time with this model and still it didn't work, worked out.
3 (31m 28s):
So it charged back comes, comes in with incredibly messy emotions. And it takes a few days before those emotions are dying off. And I'm back to my old shelf. Again, my biggest charge back was $19,000. And my small charge back was around $7. But the warm of $19,000 happened seven years ago, woke up on a Sunday morning and I was $90,000 in the red. That was an incredibly hard thing. It took me around a half a year to get that account back to zero. Yeah.
4 (32m 6s):
Yeah. I can only imagine. How about other drops in sales? How do you respond to those? Well,
3 (32m 14s):
When you read statistics and when,
4 (32m 18s):
When you read numbers,
3 (32m 20s):
You start to understand where it comes from, where is it going wrong? What part of the website is, is, is, is doing bad check and faces to, to other solutions, but to find out where the drop comes from, that is already the biggest reward, fixing it. That is something that it's not a problem. It will take some time, but to know where it comes from, we just statistics in such a way that you know, where it is leaking, that you know, where things are down. That means that you have a good oversight. And that is a party, the biggest desk here, reading the numbers and try to convert them to text and try to find out where it comes from.
3 (33m 5s):
Find a problem you can fix it. Sure.
2 (33m 9s):
That goes with anything, by the way, getting back to chargebacks in the, in the chargeback industry, when someone charges back for something that they actually consumed, they use the term friendly fraud. I what's, what's friendly. What's friendly about that.
3 (33m 29s):
There is nothing friendly about that through failure, totally agreeing with you. As soon as the word chargeback comes up, all the words associated to it are mostly negative, unless it was a stolen card and the guy got his money returns. Then we get the responsible thing as, as, as, as an industry. But for the rest, there is nothing friendly about the chargeback. Nothing
2 (33m 53s):
Indeed. Now, can you explain the term? And it's used a lot girlfriend experience, it's a little bit different on cams than it does out here in Thailand and R and R people kind of chasing the dragon with love online.
3 (34m 10s):
Yes. So we have this girlfriend experience. It's a white concept. I mean, it can go into every direction. I will see a girl and think, Hey, she looks like my first girlfriends. You go into the room and you have a nice conversation and, and you'll get these emotions back. And when you start liking a person, just because she talks nicely or she, or how, the way she thinks that's already a connection. If I am with a like-minded model communicating, she doesn't have to go naked for me to still have that experience that I'm happy. And of course, between pleasure and happiness, there is a big thing.
3 (34m 54s):
Now, a girlfriend experience is, is category on their happiness pleasure to go away after five, 10 minutes, happiness, happiness, emotion, just girlfriend experience with a model. Then I definitely want to talk a little bit more refer, and this might be two, three times a week, and maybe I develop an emotion. And I think, you know what? I don't feel bad spending $200 a month on an exclusive experience begins with the same $200 on, on dinners. We, with an offline girl, the girlfriend experiences is, is it a term I use for chats that are longer than 40 minutes and where a client is at at least two or three times a week checks in we the model, just to say a friendly word or, or, or have a little talk and doing a member session, maybe in the weekends or on the Sunday evening, but longer.
3 (35m 52s):
And with more quality, so more texts, more and more exchange of emotions. They're actually interested in each other. They're asking for family, Hey, how's your family doing? What are you doing for work? It all creates these little lines that she's throwing to him, which she can use the next time again, to continue that bill from experience. When he comes in next week, she was, how was the meeting? Did your boss gave you the compliment that you were shooting for? Did you finish the project? As soon as this member has the idea, Hey, she's actually thinking about me. That is already a girlfriend experience by being taken serious.
3 (36m 36s):
You don't have to be in one room with dispersion to still have this emotion. That's why I used that girlfriend experience term a lot. I like it. It's it's it sounds friendlier. And it's it's it has a social. Yeah. You will hear me use that word until the end of time. Because in the end, we shell a little bit of proportionality the shell time and all we are not at the red light district in Amsterdam. I mean, Dara is very, now you stand in front of a window, you go in, you negotiate 10 minutes later, you are out. That is, that is exactly what, what we don't want to have online.
3 (37m 17s):
So yes, of course we have to tell to a model that every client is a human being and should be considered as well and taken serious,
1 (37m 27s):
Certainly the best way for people to conduct themselves in any space. And Cam's included. Well, Harry, I'd like to thank you again for being our guest on adult side broker talk, and I hope we'll get a chance to do it again really soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your website design. Up-to-date do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn't change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success.
1 (38m 10s):
If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they're doing and do some of the same things. I'm not saying copy it. I'm just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you've got to keep up with the times or you'll end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you're offering everything on your site that they are or more don't just look at their design, but sure your offers are good. And you're competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don't check out the competition's content. What are they doing that you're not doing? Be willing to make changes.
1 (38m 51s):
People can't understand why they're losing sales to a competitor. You have to competitors clearly doing everything better. Again, emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don't work, you'll lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People's attention spans are like that of a gnat. They'll click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don't find what they're looking for. If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don't work, check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they're updated regularly as well. We'll talk about this subject more next week and next week we'll be talking to Leanne young
0 (39m 38s):
And that's it on this week's Adult Site Broker Talk. I'd once again like to thank our guest Harry Varwijk. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I'm Bruce Friedman.