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Adult Site Broker Talk

At Adult Site Broker we broker websites and companies for the adult space. In this podcast we’ll talk to the movers and shakers in the adult space and talk about how you can buy or sell a website or company for maximum profit and with a minimum of trouble, plus we’ll talk about the goings on in our industry.

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Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Maria of Best Studios.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker. Actually our property the week this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available. In addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters right now, we have some dating sites pay sites and a cam site available.

We often have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons. These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyer’s NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify now, time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker tuck is Maria Poro, Geena C O O best studios.

I hope I didn’t budge your name too bad, Maria. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 26s): Thank you for having me as a guest. And yes, my name is correct. So no problem.

Speaker 1 (2m 30s): Oh, good. I did good. That’s that’s fantastic. All right. So now we’ll tell everyone about you. Maria has built an impressive 15 year career in the live cam industry. She knows from experience what it means to be a top life cam model trainer and studio manager. She created and developed the model management concept, which aims to enhance performers, personalities, and objectives for achieving sustainable wellbeing of models. And over time, she’s become one of the industry’s ambassadors.

She’s been recognized with a series of awards, such as best cam industry ambassador by why not best industry representative by the Lal expo, the live cam awards and the AWS summit. Best studios is one of the leading live cam studios in the world. They’ve been in the market for over 20 years and received more than 60 awards for business excellence. Best studios motto, be the best or be the rest represents the company. Vision.

Best studios is recognized for professionalism, innovation and dedication towards continuous development of all models. The studio’s reputation is established following the experiences of thousands of models and the experience team, which has been actively involved in the business development and overall market progress by constantly challenging the status quo in 2020, the studio successfully launched the largest business expansion project in their history.

Investors were quick off the mark to show their interest in best studios franchises with three new exclusive studios opening in the first six months with others in various stages of development, both in Romania and other countries as well. So, Maria, tell me about your career. What made you choose the live cam industry and what led you to your current?

Speaker 2 (4m 28s): Oh, I’ve become a model for the money. I know everybody’s expecting a greater answer, but if it was because of the money, I was a manager before that working for some Irish pops here in Romania, I was having a lot of money and then I didn’t have that job anymore. So I was like, looking forward to see what can I get? I went to some interviews here and they told me I’m too young, too much experience. I’m asking for too much money. And I was like looking in the newspaper and I was finding jobs and I saw an app that they were looking for webcam models in Hollywood.

So I say, let’s give it a try to see how is it. And this is how I become a model. And this is the story. And then I was working for seven years as a model because some health issues I had to stop and I’ve become a trainer, then a manager, a training manager at some point. And now I’m the operational manager of the best studios. Wow.

Speaker 1 (5m 34s): Wow. And how long did it take you to climb that ladder?

Speaker 2 (5m 39s): It wasn’t like a goal for me. I just stayed in the industry because I really like it. And I started as a trainer. I have to say that after three months I wanted to become a manager and I applied for the job and they told me it was not the time for me. And then in another three months they said, oh, we need you as a studio manager. That’s fantastic. Well obviously, and everything and everything else just came along because back then we didn’t have like training manager and I was the first one to get this position right now.

We have Carmen taking my place. And then they said, okay, we are getting bigger and bigger. We need an operational manager. So here I am. Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (6m 30s): So do you, did you have any moments when you felt overwhelmed in doing your operations job that you do now?

Speaker 2 (6m 41s): Yes. Sometimes I want to go back online. So tell me about, tell me about that. I’m like to interact a lot of well with people. And right now, most of the time I sit on my desk with my computer doing a lot of internal stuff. So when I’m overwhelmed with that, I just want to go back online or go back to training right now, yesterday I was talking with one of my colleagues is like, I’m not doing webcamming training at all.

I’m only in papers and more papers and predictions and research. So yes, I don’t have that every day.

Speaker 1 (7m 25s): I think anyone who works in the corporate world and you’re really in the corporate world now, cause you were because the company that you’re with has grown by leaps and bounds since you got there. I think anyone in the corporate world, especially someone like yourself who has climbed the ladder and got into an executive role sometimes kind of looks down and they go, eh, sometimes I kind of wish I just had the simple life again. Action. Well, well I’m sure you could still cam you’re in charge there.

Speaker 2 (7m 60s): Oh yes. I still am not allowed by my contract to do that.

Speaker 1 (8m 3s): Aw man, I would renegotiate that.

Speaker 2 (8m 9s): You’re still, oh wait. Yes. I have so much information about the, the members base that we have for the models. So that will not be fair. Almost everything about the members.

Speaker 1 (8m 23s): Yeah. I guess I could be a little bit of a problem while you’re still, you’re still a beautiful lady, so I’m sure you do well.

Speaker 2 (8m 32s): Oh, I will go online and I will say to them, I know you, I know from that model and you like that and you have a fetish on that.

Speaker 1 (8m 41s): There you go. So how do you manage a big studios, daily operations? Maybe you can explain a normal day on the office or at the office

Speaker 2 (8m 54s): To explain we have right now with all the franchise. I think we go up to 200 models, maybe more. Wow. And yeah, and we have about 100 people in the staff working for the models. So that’s a big challenge. And we have like cope, corporate structure. We have owner, we have a CEO that’s Raluca, I’m the operational manager. Then we have development developer manager and we have a franchise manager.

We have the marketing manager, the training manager. We have a lot of managers and then a lot of people working for them. So it’s hard. You have to keep up with your internal staff and then you have to keep up with the market because everything is changing so fast in this industry. So I do have to be the connection between what the industry is right now and what we need to do in the studio and follow up the owner’s vision because we are doing right now, what the owner wants and what he thought that we can do in this industry.

And right now we are doing it very well.

Speaker 1 (10m 9s): Yeah, yeah, no, you guys are certainly doing well. Do you manage the operations for the franchises as well? How are you involved in supporting these partners?

Speaker 2 (10m 22s): Oh, I managed them as the, we manage the studio. I get the same involvement both into the studio and also for the franchises, because I have to keep, keep up with the quality that we have in the studio. This was the biggest challenge that we had as a franchise. We say, okay, we can sell the franchise. That’s not a big problem, but we want to keep the quality that we have and the standards that we have here in the studio, also in the franchise. And it’s sometimes it’s very hard if we are not involved 100%, it’s not going to work because we are the only studio that we don’t encourage our models to use toys.

And we go more into communication. Yeah. And it’s very easy at some point to say, oh, I’m not making enough money. Let’s get a deal though and make more money. So we have to keep an eye on the franchise just for that. Sure,

Speaker 1 (11m 17s): Sure. How does somebody become a franchisee has to have money.

Speaker 2 (11m 25s): You have to know about the industry. You will have to stay with us for a while to see what kind of person, because yes, you can have the money, but you have to have the same mentality and the vision as we do, this is very important.

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): W how does the process work? I mean, let’s say I’m here in Thailand and I’m going, okay. I want to start a studio. Maybe Thailand is not a good example because it probably last about two days before the police broke in. But let’s see, I’m actually in a country where the stuff is legal and I want to start a studio. What’s the process.

Speaker 2 (12m 7s): The first thing is to see if it’s legal or not. Yes. How much money do you have to invest in this? How much time do you want to invest in this business? If you want to run it yourself, or you want to have someone in charge because having the studio, it’s more like a personal business. If you put someone in charge is not going to work as much as you do. And it’s a lot of human interaction with the models and then with the members.

So you have to be very involved and we will have to see in which city you want to do to see how the market is over there. If it’s okay to open a studio over there or not, it’s like going in, try to open a studio in Luxembourg people over there, they have a salary equal to what a model is earning. So you’re not going to have models over there. Right,

Speaker 1 (13m 5s): Right, right. No, you’re not going to have, and you’re not, you’re not going to have a studio here. I promise

Speaker 2 (13m 10s): You. I think we had someone telling that they want to open a studio over there and we asked them to first verify the law and then see how safe it is.

Speaker 1 (13m 23s): Let me verify. Can I verify the law for you? It’s illegal.

Speaker 2 (13m 29s): Yes. And then to see again, the, the market, if the goes over there, we’ll love to work in, in the webcam industry, where is a lot to work or they will prefer to do something else.

Speaker 1 (13m 43s): I think in Thailand, like many countries, especially Asian countries where culturally it’s not accepted. I, I think you’d have a tough time getting models to show them, to show their faces on webcams. Just to hunch.

Speaker 2 (14m 1s): Yeah. I know when I was a model, well, like the Asian market was a big market for the models. There were a lot of Asian models on the, on the site. I don’t know what happened, but they’ve lost the interest and they were not making a lot of money. And they were like willing to do everything for $1. Right.

Speaker 1 (14m 24s): Philippines. Yes. Although that’s changed with door tan, there that’s another place where it would be, let me just say it would be, people would be risking their lives, trying to do porn over there. So what do you find the most challenging about your daily job?

Speaker 2 (14m 46s): Oh, right now the numbers, but what it’s very challenging is working with people with emotions because models in the studio are not just numbers. They’re people with feelings and they interact back with members and they have also feelings. So you have to have a, a line of communication over there to explain to the model for what they have to do in this job, how to provide the burst, the best quality service that can offer to the members.

Right. So I think that’s the most challenging to explain to the models, what they have to do. And to me, to make the members understand for, to understand the models, what they are here for.

Speaker 1 (15m 37s): Sure. Sure. What do you feel is most rewarding about your job?

Speaker 2 (15m 43s): Oh, when I see people happy, when I see the stuff that it’s happy, when I see the models that they are happy, that’s the things that really encourage me. And I love my job.

Speaker 1 (15m 56s): Fantastic. Fantastic. What do you feel makes you successful at what you do that

Speaker 2 (16m 3s): I care we are. It’s not only me. It’s about the team that I work with. It’s that we, we really care for what we are doing. We are carrying from. I know it sounds like a cliche, but we are caring from the member, right. To what the sites want to, what the model wants to, what we want to give and this caring. It’s very, very important.

Speaker 1 (16m 31s): Now, what gets you excited about coming to work every day?

Speaker 2 (16m 35s): Coming to work every day. I’m not the kind of person that will love to stay home. Even if I say I will take a holiday for one month and I will go and lay in my bed and do absolutely nothing, give me today’s like that. And I will just go crazy. I don’t know what to do home. I don’t know what to do in a mall. I like to interact with people. I love working. This is the thing that I always had. I think it was an escape from home, but I really love to work.

So only the thought that I’m going back and doing what I love. Maybe if I had a job that I hated, I will not think like that, but it’s like, oh, I’m going to work. It’s I wake up. I stay in my bed and I think what I’m going to wear today, what I have to do to know what kind of shoes I need today, and then go back to the office and I’m not going to take a cup of coffee or tea. I’m just getting there on my desk, open the computer, reading the males, the messenger, and just get into action.

And I, then I see, oh, it’s almost six. O’clock

Speaker 1 (17m 48s): Well, you always look really by the way. So now I’m now I’m understanding that I think some people really don’t care how they look. I can tell you do. It’s very obvious. What do you like least about your job?

Speaker 2 (18m 1s): Hm. I don’t know what, Hmm.

Speaker 1 (18m 4s): Oh, come on. There’s gotta be something you really hate. Sometimes

Speaker 2 (18m 8s): I hate what I’m doing right now because I have to sit in front of the computer and do a lot of paperwork. This is what I don’t like. I know it’s something that we must do and it helps my job, but it’s something I really hate. It’s like being an accountant. I cannot do that in my life, but it’s what I, I don’t like, I know it’s necessarily, but if I can manage without it, I would be so happy. Hmm. You know, when

Speaker 1 (18m 37s): You first said that, I thought you were talking about the interview. So what I’m doing right now, I’m going, oh geez. She hates this.

Speaker 2 (18m 46s): I do love to talk. I like to be in the center of attention. I

Speaker 1 (18m 51s): Understand I’m a former radio guy. So I completely understand. I think that’s, that’s a good part of why I do the podcast because it’s something that’s, you know, it gets my creative juices flowing and I do enjoy what’s it like to work? I mean, I know the answer to this because I was at the same company for 21 years. I was at a radio station in the San Francisco area. What’s it like to work at the same company for 15 years.

Speaker 2 (19m 15s): Oh, it’s great. It’s great. When you see to grow. Yeah. If you like go to a big company right now, it’s not going to grow. So it’s going to feel the same. But when you saw that you started in a small studio and you open a new studio and you move around and you have more stuff and you open new departments and you just grow every day. Oh, this is it’s huge for me to realize where you’ve been like 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago.

When, where you are right now, it’s impressive. What I like to watch on the pictures from different events that we have been like summits and to see how we used to be and what we are right now. Oh, this is a great feeling. You got to feel

Speaker 1 (20m 4s): Really proud too. You’ve been a big part of it.

Speaker 2 (20m 7s): Yes I am. It’s my baby.

Speaker 1 (20m 10s): Yeah. Yeah, no, I completely understand. And you know, I, I get that also from being a website broker, because when I talk to people, they’re very proud of what they’ve built. It’s not just money for them and it’s not just, okay, I want to sell this thing. I want to get rid of it. Whatever. They’re like, well, I want to make sure the owner takes good care of it. Cause this is my baby. At least that’s the case in a lot of, and a lot of cases. So look, I completely understand that because you put a lot into what you do every day.

At least I hope you do. You know, when I’m talking to other people about other people, you and I do. And, and you’d like to hope that everyone feels that way. Unfortunately, not everyone does, but a lot of my clients do, which is a good thing. So what makes best studios different? You know, this is a very highly competitive market, the studio business, especially in Romania, but what, what makes you guys different and what makes you better?

Speaker 2 (21m 8s): Oh, they have made,

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Right? I know you’re not joking. And it’s true.

Speaker 2 (21m 15s): The vision that we had, we started as a, as a studio. And then at some point the owner, because it’s all about the owner. The owner said, look, I wanna make the models happy. It’s like, yes, they come to work. They make a lot of money. But at the end of the day, they are not happy. They will say, oh, I will give up this job. I don’t want to do it anymore. I have enough money because I’m not happy with what I’m doing. Right. And I said, okay, why you are not happy?

And it was a huge thing for me to realize that I was teaching them how to be a good model. But I was never thinking about their happiness because I was a happy model. I was choosing to do this yes. For the money, but I was not starving or anything. It was just a good job. And then we realized that they are not feeling happy. They are not feeling happy because they are not able to show their humanity in front of the camera.

They will just be like sex toys. Remember they don’t want to talk too much with us. They ask us to get naked very fast. They, we are using a lot of toys. So I’m feeling bad when I leave my work, because of all the words that the member are saying to us and was like, yeah, but I was not feeling like this. And the winner was like, we don’t want to have this with the models. We want to have happy models, how we can make happy models. I said, okay, let’s check off everything that they don’t like about this job.

And to see if we can have a good product in the end said, okay, we lose the deal dose. We dress up the models. We go to a better English. Let’s see what is happening. And we got that product and the members were very happy and say, oh, I was looking for this. And I never thought I’m going to see it on a web camel site. Right. And we realized that members do need that because members are men and they then need only sex.

They need interaction more than sex. Right? Some of them, they need only sex. And there they have, they only have the money to pay for the sex, but others, they have the money to pay for interaction, socialize with the model to talk with the model, to have a over here, we’ll say, oh, this is a good idea. Let’s do this. And we saw that we have happy customers, the members happy models in the studio and people who were happy to come and work with us in the stuff we explained the interview, what the trainer has to do.

It’s like, oh, I only thought that I can show her how to go Doggystyle and slap her ass. It’s not, this is not in the industry. It’s something that we don’t do. You have to teach the models how to be happy. Right? Right. Yeah. We don’t have trainers. We have coaches. They coach them how to be happy with their self to have goals in their life. And that not everything is about the money.

It’s about giving something back and then going to get rewarded.

Speaker 1 (24m 42s): It sounds like the coaches are as much life coaches as they are, as they are.

Speaker 2 (24m 49s): Yep. They are life coaches. They are not about that. We sit with the model. It’s what makes you happy? Yeah. I don’t know. Okay. Let’s try to figure out what makes you happy right now. What is going to make you happy in the long term? And we’re going to work on that. It’s not about work. It’s not about how much money you make at the end of the day, because a happy person will always make money.

Speaker 1 (25m 15s): Yeah. And, and the customers are certainly going to spend a lot more if they, if they’re. Yes, that’s true. I mean, one goes with the other, so how would you describe the live cam industry from 15 years ago? And what are your thoughts on the industry today? It

Speaker 2 (25m 35s): Has changed a lot. It was small. Now it’s very big and I’m very competitive. We have so many brilliant people inside the industry. I think 15 years ago was like, we didn’t know each other so better right now. We are like a family. Right. It’s so nice to see when you go to an event and you just wish to meet people and go and party with them and do more business. And you see people growing into this industry and doing something new that maybe like 15 years ago was not available.

And someone came up with an idea and said, everybody was like, oh, that person is crazy. And right now it’s very successful in what it’s doing. Yeah. So I do like the industry and what it’s become.

Speaker 1 (26m 25s): And it’s really, it’s really matured. Yes. So how has the company and the team changed since you joined? Oh,

Speaker 2 (26m 34s): The company. I think the team changed a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot because some people cannot keep up what we are doing. So we only have people that they have the same mentality as we do. Right. So it has changed a lot, but the vision and what we believe in it. Hasn’t yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 58s): Which were your favorite and least favorite moments of your career?

Speaker 2 (27m 3s): Hmm, my favorite one. It was when I first got my first award, it was yes. For the best industry representative. It was like, wow,

Speaker 1 (27m 16s): You got more than one. Which, which award

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): Was it? Yes. I have four. The first one was why not the words. Okay. And, oh, I was so happy about it. The first one that we had, like for the best studio, it was the recognition for what we done. Nice. And then when I was able to get a model to be top one on incomes, on live, Jasmine, that was a big goal for me.

And when we were able to do that with my first model, I was crying.

Speaker 1 (27m 56s): That’s nice

Speaker 2 (27m 57s): Because it’s easy to do it on you. When you work on yourself, it’s very hard to do it with someone else. And that was a huge moment. And what I, what I didn’t like, it’s not what I didn’t, it’s what I don’t like when people say that webcam models are stupid, that’s true or not

Speaker 1 (28m 22s): True in a lot of cases.

Speaker 2 (28m 25s): Yes. And this is the thing like, oh, what a webcam model can do get naked, then that’s all. Yeah. And it’s like, you don’t know the hard work behind it.

Speaker 1 (28m 34s): Yeah. It’s a tough, it’s a tough job.

Speaker 2 (28m 38s): Yes. And this is what I, I really don’t like when people look at models like that, it’s something that I incur every day and it’s very hard and it feels like I want to go outside and scream. This is not true. Let me explain to them,

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): Well, you see the people who say that are ignorant. So you know that stupidity in itself. So what do you want? And there’s a lot of sexism mixed in there as well, which is also stupidity. What do you want to achieve next in your career now? Would you consider this, your dream job? Or are you thinking about the next,

Speaker 2 (29m 19s): No, this is my dream job. I don’t see myself doing something else. Outside the industry. I would love to work in the industry, work with best studios and grew up. I don’t know what the next step will be, because if you asked me about three years ago about the franchise, I would say, oh, this is not for us. It’s not something that we want right now. Very happy with it.

Speaker 1 (29m 42s): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you know another question, you mentioned the franchises. Now, there are others that offer franchises. Why would somebody take a best studios franchise as opposed to brand X?

Speaker 2 (29m 58s): I dunno. It’s about the, I wouldn’t say, oh, let’s sell this franchise, but it’s about the feeling. When you want to open a business, you will have to, you have to be able to choose, go and talk with franchise ex, go in franchise that, and then go to the best studios and see how you feel inside it. Because we are not the franchise for everyone. We are a franchise for someone that has the same beliefs as we do.

Yeah. So if they want to choose us, it’s because they want to get involved into something together with us and to, to have the same beliefs as we do. Yes. You’re gonna make money less, more. Sure. But the difference is to invest in something that you like and work with the people that you like, because you’re going to interact with us a lot. Even don’t like us, it’s not going to go okay for you.

Speaker 1 (31m 1s): No, no. Well like any like any business, like any job.

Speaker 2 (31m 7s): Yes. It’s the same thing that I’m always telling the models. When they come to an interview, go to other interviews, talk with other people, see, see, where are you going to feel better? Yeah. Because you’re going to do this for a long time. You’re going to buy a franchise. It’s not going to be for six months. It’s going to be for life. So you have to enjoy it because you have this opportunity to choose. Right. And when you’re going to choose us, make sure you do it for the, for the right.

I dunno how to say not motives. Yeah. Maybe for the right reasons, but for the right feeling. Right.

Speaker 1 (31m 46s): Right. And really sounds like what you’re trying to establish. There’s kind of like, like a family type atmosphere.

Speaker 2 (31m 54s): It’s not family because family, you cannot choose. It’s about friends, team, a family. It’s something that you get, you stuck with it with your brothers and mothers and you cannot change it. But friends and the team, you can choose it. Yep.

Speaker 1 (32m 14s): Now what qualities does someone need to succeed as a manager in this industry

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): To love the industry. And that’s all everything else you can learn, but you cannot teach someone to love something. It’s a different kind of industry. But if you don’t love the industry, you’re not going to be able to be a good manager. You have to love the industry. You have to love the people that you work with. So understand that it’s very different, but you have to love the industry. If you don’t do that, you’re not going to succeed.

Speaker 1 (32m 50s): Okay. Now, do you think any woman can be suited for a career in the live cam industry? Or if not, what kind of woman has the best chance to succeed?

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): Not anyone can be a webcam model. Not anyone can work in this industry. It’s like not everyone can be a teacher. Yeah. I will be a bad teacher. I will kill the kids. My students. Yes. It’s very different. What do you need? You don’t have to be beautiful. You have to be smart enough to understand that you can grow and you need to grow and develop yourself, hardworking people that they are interested in about develop their self more and more every day.

This is what you need. We can make you beautiful in two hours. That’s not the problem. You can learn English. That’s not the problem. Right. But you have to believe in yourself and to have this, to be open to the idea of develop yourself.

Speaker 1 (34m 4s): Hmm. And doesn’t, doesn’t being in this industry, make a lot of women believe in themselves.

Speaker 2 (34m 10s): They do. They understand they can do anything in their life. And it’s because of the interaction that they have with the members. It’s about what they are learning. Because talking with different people, from different cultures, with different jobs, you get a lot of information. Something that you cannot have it from books, right? Because you’re not going to open a law book, but you’re going to talk with a lawyer and he’s going to talk to you about his life and daily things that they are doing.

And you’re going to learn from it.

Speaker 1 (34m 46s): And he’s going to charge you $500 an hour. Do you have any advice for other women who want to build a career in the webcam industry? It, wait, I think that’s, I think that’s taken. I think you’re going to get sued. I think you’re going to get sued by Nike.

Speaker 2 (35m 8s): Yeah. But that’s a Moto in leasing. This is an advice don’t ever think twice. Do what you’re feeling right now. Right. Then what you think it’s best for you right now? You don’t know what is going to happen tomorrow. Right. But if you want to do something today, just do it. Don’t wait. Don’t think twice. Because when you think twice, you’re going to find bad things. Good things. Just go with your instinct. You

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): Can talk yourself out of good ideas. Can’t you think back to when you first got started as a model. Okay. Now, what do you wish you’d known when you first started that? You know, now everything

Speaker 2 (35m 52s): About the members know to understand what kind of service I can provide as a webcam model, because I thought it was about selling sex, selling an image, not selling your heart. And this is about selling what you can give from inside you, not what you can give with your body.

And to understand that member are more sensitive than women. They need more compliments that we need as a woman. It’s something that I realized. I think after four years, when I told one of my members that he was looking good in a suit and he was blushing, and I said, why are you blushing? And he told me, you know, no one told me that you look handsome and really believe it.

It’s like that and said, Nope, you as a woman, you hear that every day, if you have a new dress and you go meet your friends or go to the office, everyone is going to say, oh, you look so nice in that dress. Even if it’s true or not, but you get a lot of compliments, right. As a man, if you get the new shirt, no one is going to say, oh, you look so nice in that new shirt. That

Speaker 1 (37m 23s): Is, so that is so true.

Speaker 2 (37m 25s): Yeah. It was like, yeah, that is true. And he was like, I need compliments. I love getting compliments. I don’t get it enough. I wish I was a girl. I’m going to make compliments. And I start doing that with my members. And they were like, surprise. Like, you know, I, haven’t got a compliment in a very, very long time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 45s): Yeah. Well, if he wants to be a girl, he, he just needs to come out here. It’s pretty cheap to get the change. How, how would you describe your, your life work balance? Oh, I don’t have a balance

Speaker 2 (38m 1s): When people say they can manage a career and a family life. That’s not true because when I’m home with my husband, I want to have more time to spend with him. When I’m at work, I need more time to spend at work. So again, the, the day I don’t have a job from nine till six, I go, I get later to the office because I want to spend more time with my husband in the morning, but I’m staying longer at the office.

And sometimes I get work back home. So it’s not that bad. So it’s like, you got

Speaker 1 (38m 38s): A little bit, it’s a bit of a balance there. You know? You said, you said you, you said you, well, you said you spend time in the morning with your husband. So

Speaker 2 (38m 47s): Yes, but I don’t spend time with my daughter. I just become a mom. And right now I am not keeping my daughter with me there with my year with my mum, mum, we’re in LA, she’s taking care of the baby. Got it. Because I don’t have time for the family. And I do realize, but I’m giving her the best opportunity that she can have it right now. But I cannot say, oh, I’m happy back home.

And I’m happy at work. And no, when I have to travel with work, I wish I was home. When, I mean holiday with my family. I’m thinking about work that I don’t have time to do that. And that, and that’s not the balance. It’s something that you have to be grateful with what you have and not think about that. I don’t have that

Speaker 1 (39m 38s): Well, something to work towards, I guess. So I, so I usually ask people what they do in their free time. But I, I won’t ask you that question.

Speaker 2 (39m 49s): Oh, I’m doing a lot of, a lot of things in my free time. Sometimes I’m doing work.

Speaker 1 (39m 56s): I was afraid. I was afraid that was going to be the answer.

Speaker 2 (40m 1s): And I also take time for my free time to travel, to do some things. When I want to keep away from work, I just don’t have the internet. And I have time for myself. So I’m not doing as much as I wanted to do. Yeah. There are lots of things that I’ve give up, but not all for work. Right. But for myself, I go home and I watch movies because one of my favorite things, I know reading a lot of books.

I’m meeting with friends. Yeah. Try to do fun stuff. Fun stuff for my age. Because if you asked me when I was 21, I was like, Bobby, right now, it’s not the bulk party. Tell me about it. I’m 63 so

Speaker 1 (40m 52s): I can play. I come. I completely understand. So there’s some balance there

Speaker 2 (41m 1s): Depends on the perspective. If you ask a mom. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41m 5s): Oh definitely.

Speaker 2 (41m 7s): She’s not spending enough time with their family. If you ask them, I get that. I get that some day. We’ll see. You’re not staying enough at work. So,

Speaker 1 (41m 18s): Ah, the life, the life of a female executive with a family, it’s not an easy thing.

Speaker 2 (41m 23s): Oh, it’s not these. Even for that, I think this is something that we say, oh, mom, has it harder? No. Did that, that had the same feeling, the same needs. They feel bad. It’s only that we look at them from a different perspective. Sure,

Speaker 1 (41m 40s): Sure. How much do you miss? The

Speaker 2 (41m 44s): A lot than not. I miss traveling. I miss meeting with the people when I was at the shows, I was thinking, oh, I do have to be here for another day. Wish I could go back to work. I have so many things to do. And right now I miss not the parties, the mingling with the people. I miss the hugs. Yes. And to see people and see what everyone was doing. So what I really miss.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42m 15s): Yeah. Because that to me is family. That is that’s our adopted family. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Hey Maria, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult site, broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 34s): Thank you so much for having me. We can do this anytime you want. Okay. Tomorrow let’s do it tomorrow. I have time. I will make time for sure.

Speaker 1 (42m 45s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation that a potential buyer may want to find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content. Number of images and number of videos. How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years.

If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports. Get all that information organized in a legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know such as well?

Are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts or anything else like that? Don’t let these things be a surprise to a potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Aree of Webcam Startup.

Speaker 0 (44m 18s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Maria of Best Studios. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Andy Wullmer of Traffic Partner.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages. Google has placed the websites in good search positions.

There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and by traffic, this top of the line tube network is available for only $595,000. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today on adult site, broker talk is Andy warmer, also known as the traffic captain of traffic partner.

Andy, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk, oh my God. It’s been way too long, my friend way too long. Now I’ll tell everybody about you. Andy is a veteran of the industry for over 20 years. He was the founder of sex, goes mobile before selling it to the company. He now works with traffic partner and he works with many verticals from porn to online retail, mobile offers, dating and live camps.

He worked as a model agent before he started brokering traffic. His nickname, as I mentioned is the traffic captain because he’s recognized as a strong leader in this industry. Now, Andy is the CEO of mobile for traffic partner with brands like fuck book, sex goes mobile. That sounds familiar. Web billing, grand slam media dating partner, cam partner, digital performance and more traffic partner.com has been in business since 1997 and offers direct advertisers, casual and mainstream dating products.

As well as community entertainment systems apps, mobile web and desktop versions are available in 50 plus countries. They own all of their own products or a full exclusivity. They’re constantly searching for premium quality, mobile and desktop traffic from publishers and networks concerning their own direct top. Performing dating and community offers their business models are CPL, rev share PPS, CPM, or CPC. That’s allowing promoting their products via affiliate display, push, email marketing, and more VIP partners will be assigned to a dedicated account manager that will not only monitor campaigns, but support you in optimizing your campaigns for the highest results and sorry, Andy.

That’s all the time we have today now. Very long introduction, right? My friend, I had anything for you and Michael. Okay. So you guys do a large percentage of your work within the dating industry. Now what’s the current state of affairs with dating

Speaker 1 (4m 41s): Traffic. The point is the three very different markets. And it’s the, like you said, it’s the adored dating, the casual dating and the mainstream dating. So I always say like they do dating is only the, that you have a one night stand find somebody who want fast text. Right? So go on that. Then the casual one is you’re looking for a relationship, but you’re not sure. And you only want to play around. And then the mainstream one is you want to find somebody to live together or even do it with a marriage.

And so these markets are totally different and marketing and odd, so different where you get the traffic from. And the good thing is that we have all three. So everybody who have traffic, we can find the right product for him. And of course the growing of the main stream was very high during the, the Corona virus. Because if you only want to go on a sex date, it’s difficult because right now it’s difficult to meet people

Speaker 0 (5m 48s): Or dangerous

Speaker 1 (5m 49s): Or dangerous. And you don’t, you don’t have a full body condom perhaps with the subsequent, you know, so, but the, the mainstream dating was growing extremely because you know, there’s a lot of chatting before you really need people. So everybody was working out on their profile to have more time to write more about them. They uploaded more picture. There’s a lot of more chat.

And as the model in our apps, my dates and I dates, it’s like, people pay us per message. It’s like, you go on Facebook and you have to pay like a little amount for every message. And that was for us from the profit side, super, and also for our affiliates, they made a lot of more money out of the traffic because it’s not a subscription model. It’s an open the message payment model. And that was for us the super success.

Okay. Okay. Now how

Speaker 0 (6m 52s): Unique is it for a company to have all three types of data?

Speaker 1 (6m 57s): Well, normally the, when I started with this, the way I direct the only the mainstream ones and the adult ones, so there was a big difference. They were not working together. Even. I remember there were shows like 2005 and 2010, where were these posts? People not even talk with it. Okay. And then there was the breakthrough was the casual dating. What was attractive for webmasters, which were sending traffic in both directions.

So it started that the DeWalt mainstream were fighting for the same traffic from the, from the same affiliates. I think one big through breakthrough was also when we had the house of slim party on the internet. That was 2015. And there was the internet in the same time as the affiliate summit west. So there was a mainstream show and an adult show at the same time in Las Vegas. And of course we are doing guys no better to rock.

So we had DMX, unfortunately he died last Friday, but we had DMX and Cypress hill on stage have made a big party. And then all this mainstream people come to me and ah, and me, because grandson, media and sex was Bubba. We will, we were the sponsors or together with <inaudible>. I then all this mainstream guys came over to, oh, I heard you have a party. You kind of have an entrance and stuff like this. So that was a nice breakthrough between this both different markets.

And after it, the, I know, I remember when we had the first booth at the mainstream show, like the affiliate summit east in New York, we didn’t put six, goes mobile. We were pro. So we find a new name, you know? So, and then you saw also like the guys from bitter strawberry coming there and more and more doing people who went over to the, this mainstream shows.

And then we will, of course was important that we developed also our mainstream products. So we started to go into that market, but the main streamers, they never just developed sex products. So we were the pirates catching our money in bear markets. And that was a big advantage. Sure.

Speaker 0 (9m 20s): And now at all of the affiliate shows, not just affiliate summit, but all of the affiliate shows, it’s gotta be 30, 35% adult people.

Speaker 1 (9m 30s): Yeah.

Speaker 0 (9m 30s): For sure. By the way, did you ever see those, those Budweiser commercials with spuds McKenzie? The party animal? Nope. Yeah. You are German, aren’t you? Well, they had this dog and they called him spuds Mackenzie. And they would do all these commercials where he’s in all these play, all these luxurious places with women all around and they say, spuds, Mackenzie, the party animal. Now Andy Wolf, Andy Woolmer is the party animal. Come on, man. Okay. Yeah. We

Speaker 1 (9m 58s): It’s folks that German thing, we, we, we work hard, but we probably have to. Yes. We

Speaker 0 (10m 4s): Knew as October Fest will be a, definitely an example of that. So how profitable is it to buy and sell dating traffic using your company traffic partner?

Speaker 1 (10m 19s): It’s, it’s totally depends on the source. You know, we do a lot of testing and we have a business intelligence members in our group. They check all the traffic. If it looks like blood traffic, because on CPR, you have a lot of people that want to say, send you book traffic. They only need to put an email in. So we lose a lot of times money when we buy traffic on CPL from strange sources. But we are always willing to test, test, test that we work together with a lot of performance networks.

They have their affiliates. And so we got the traffic through them and then we have still classical affiliates and webmasters sending directly to us. And of course you see always when somebody have good traffic, you want to sell it on rev share because he knows, he knows this traffic is converting and he wants to make long term money. And CPL is always a little bit more dangerous because there’s a lot of products, especially from Pakistan, from India, Philippines, and countries like this, they think, oh, they are so stupid.

They don’t see when I put fake emails, but we catch them always and we don’t pay them out. So don’t even try it.

Speaker 0 (11m 36s): So where bot traffic was once a problem, the more traffic people like talk to, and again, you know, traffic has is not my game. Okay. And I broke her, I broke her websites, but I learned from the people I talked to and what I’m hearing more and more is bot traffic isn’t as much of a problem because of all of the analytics you have,

Speaker 1 (11m 55s): You have course we have analytics, but they still try. You know, if you have a CPA model, that means people only need to put their email in. And then you got paid. It’s like a lead pipe cost per lead. And of course, if the email looks good at the, at the fraud us, the fraud has, don’t use old school bots where you see directly VPN IP or something, the, the cheapest become better. So you need to be better on the protection of your system.

So it’s, it’s like a game,

Speaker 2 (12m 27s): But you can verify email

Speaker 0 (12m 28s): Addresses. Right? I mean, there’s, there’s a, I mean, I know I have I’ve, I’ve, I’ve gone in verified my lists over and over to make sure they’re scrubbed. Don’t you guys use those, those tools.

Speaker 1 (12m 40s): Oh, of course. Yeah. But they, they have real, GBN mostly, they have most of the Gmail, real Gmail accounts. And they even, they even answer the image, you know, the cost of the cost of employees in India, Pakistan. And some, if you pay somebody, if you pay somebody a hundred dollars a month and do nothing else, then subscribe to different dating sites through different performance. But he even opened the email, he confirmed the email, he puts his name and even put fake pictures in it.

So, you know, it’s not the classical, but of course, with all the technology bot traffic, you can see very fast detect very fast. But if, if you have this human factor and it’s not for me, okay. Perhaps the definition of bot is wrong. It’s like frogs, traffic. It’s not what traffic it’s fraud.

Speaker 0 (13m 31s): Well, no. Have you, don’t you, do you guys block any countries?

Speaker 1 (13m 36s): Generally we don’t block. But if we see, if we see directly that is somebody from Pakistan, especially to India, we are very careful. And we add, we pay out 30 days net. So we have at least some time to see if all this leads you brought in, you know, the classical thing is somebody bring a thousand leads. Nobody of them spent any money in the system, you know, it’s it’s fraught. Sure, sure.

Absolutely.

Speaker 0 (14m 7s): Now, obviously we’ve been in a pandemic for over a year now. How has that influenced your business?

Speaker 1 (14m 13s): Yeah. Like I told you before, for our message based and mainstream products, it was very positive for our fast six dating side. They’re more or less stable because people keep in contact. But yeah, the growing wasn’t the mainstream, because a lot of people, they never use the, this dating before because they went into bars or restaurants or they, you know, there were many other places to do dating, but in the pandemic they have to use dating sites. So it was a big, big growth for all dating companies.

Fabulous.

Speaker 0 (14m 45s): Now how about your life? How has the virus impacted you personally?

Speaker 1 (14m 50s): The first moment I was super angry about this because I’m not such afraid to vote. I was, you know, I lived in countries like Mexico and Venezuela. I went to the juggler desk a lot. So a lot of virus and parasites and you know, I’m not so afraid of this. And even when I see back when this started, and then it was like December, December in China, December 19, it started in China. And I was in Bangkok after I was in Taiwan.

Then I was in Manila. Then I was in Palau islands. Then January, I was back in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vegas. Yup. Yup. And then in February, February, March, I was over, even in Columbia, I went always flights from east to west. And then the last show was the, the part of that one. And I came home and then, you know, normally I go swimming every, every, every week I go three, four times swimming. He had the public pool and one Sunday, 15 of mine, I remember 15 of match, 2020.

I went Sunday morning to my swim. I said, no, we are closed because of growth that I was like, fuck what the fuck? It’s yeah,

Speaker 0 (16m 5s): Yeah. That I don’t get that I don’t get, do they, do they really think it’s a chlorine and a pool? The Corona virus is going to even be in

Speaker 1 (16m 12s): The water. Yeah. Whatever. So then my next show, I had a show in Italy was canceled. And then my show in Israel was canceled at the show in Moscow and Kiev, all cancer. That was April and may. So I was really angry because I, you know, if you have the rhythm to go every month to one or two shows and I’m staying at home and what I was like, yeah, staying at home, what you do here, it was really angry. But then I changed to enjoying it.

So it was a nice spring last year. So I discovered a lot of nice areas here around my hometown. I cleaned up my house. I renovated some stuff. So becoming, becoming normal with it.

Speaker 0 (16m 57s): That’s good. Well, for a guy that goes to, what do you do? Tell me before we started recording to about 25 shows a year, you probably, usually don’t remember what your home looks

Speaker 1 (17m 6s): Like. Wait, it’s like I’m 200, 200 days at home and 160 on travel. Something like that.

Speaker 0 (17m 15s): She’s better you than me. Okay. Cryptocurrencies have gone pretty nuts. Now, while we’re recording this, we’ve seen record run-ups for Bitcoin ether and other cryptocurrencies. What impact does that have on your business?

Speaker 1 (17m 30s): On the business? Not too much because the, the, the quantity of people that have Bitcoins and want to pay with this, it’s too small when you see it on the worldwide population. But for me privately, I was very skeptical. When I heard first time, it was also the next 2014 and then Vegas. And I was like, I know this, this is like a big scam. And so, and then I, then I also saw the news.

It was always something was criminal, criminal activities and stuff like this. But after the drop and then 2019, I bought some, some of these cryptocurrencies only to have them. You know, like if you do investment, you have a real estate, you have stock exchange, you have some gold. So I wanted to have some cryptos on my stock. And of course they develop very nice, but I’m still it’s. I have still the feeling. It’s like a casino, you know, because it’s, it’s the same with real money, you know, here it says a Bitcoin is like 50,000 or $55,000.

Yes. Yes.

Speaker 0 (18m 45s): As we, as we tape right now, 55, 6, 3, 8, I’m looking at my desktop. Oh, three, seven. It went down

Speaker 1 (18m 54s): Three six. Bye it’s. It’s all about the trust of people at something, because of course, a hundred dollars, a hundred dollar bill is also only a piece of paper if you don’t trust. And of course through the Corona crisis or governments in the world are printing money. Like hell. And if I, if I see a president Biden said, yeah, $1 trillion or something like this is the bank. And you say, okay, so that you see also on the stock exchange market, we had the biggest crisis of the, the last 50 years and, and all the stock exchanges go up new record, new, regular new record.

This, this is the reason because the governments are pumping so much money into the, to the market. And I think $100 is not $100 anymore. It’s only because people still trust that’s the underdog. So it’s not bad to have some cryptocurrencies in your portfolio. I would not say, go, go for it for the full amount. But it’s a very interesting project. Also. I like there’s some other cryptocurrencies, they are brand new and then even better.

For example, there’s one, I like Yokota the technology behind it’s very way, way better than a Bitcoin, but it’s not so known. So when people need to get trust, but I think cryptocurrencies will be something for the future, but who is the winner? I don’t know Bitcoin was the first, but normally the first is not the winner. You see, there was my space and then there was Facebook and then you see there was Yahoo, but then there was Google. So we will see what it comes to.

But if you somebody over put some money in cryptocurrencies and split it up on the top 10, I would say, Hmm,

Speaker 0 (20m 53s): Interesting theory. I will look at that. I, right now I’m just an ether and I’m pretty happy with what’s happened, but I’m holding. I’m just holding. In fact, I’m like, I might double down. Yup, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I sold, I sold Bitcoin when it was, I thought at its peak at 19,000. Well, and then I invested in a friend of mine, said a few mutual friend of ours.

We were talking about before the, this thing said, oh, there’s this new Russian cryptocurrency Putin’s behind it. It’s going to be big. So I took all my Bitcoin money and S and some more and put it in this thing. And it’s vaporized just vaporized. You know, I’m going to be a millionaire anyway. So, well,

Speaker 1 (21m 46s): There’s, there’s one thing. If you buy a cryptocurrency, don’t look at the value right now. Look for the people who are behind and what is the extra value that the coin brings. Right. And why Bitcoin Bitcoin is going up like this because when companies like PayPal or visa cards and other, they say, okay, we will use it. If there’s the use, then a value comes into it. Yeah. Well,

Speaker 0 (22m 13s): The Elon Musk is behind Dodge coin, man. Okay. Okay. I think, I think we’re gonna see the big short on that one pretty soon a big part of what you do. And what many of us do is go to the events as I talked about, and you talked about we not only display, but we network, we do business with a virus. All of that has been on hold. Now, there are virtual shows. Of course, it’s not the same. How has the lack of shows affected your business?

Speaker 1 (22m 45s): It’s difficult to find new people. You know, we have our stable network. We are a long time in the business. So for us, the influence, we see that we have less new, interesting affiliates. Of course we can find them through other media. So, so on the show, you can need, you can buy Google, AdSense, AdWords to find new ones. We can, we have the telegram groups, we have the Facebook groups. So there is way to find new affiliates, but the good thing on a personal choice as I’m a longtime network and this, that a friend of a friend, he shows you, you know, introductions, life introduction.

And then you sit together and you have some drinks and you have a dinner and you have a party. So this relationship is directly very strong. Instead of somebody you never saw hit you up on Skype, Hey, I have traffic and you don’t know who he is, where he comes from. So it’s for us, it’s a little bit dropped in new affiliates. But I think the worst thing is for all the new companies, startups, you start up or companies, which are not so known. It’s very difficult without shows, because I remember when I was on my first shows with sex goes mobile.

I came back and I, I had to, after 20 times more say than before they were, my first shows was, was like a really Buba for this new startup. And I think it’s very difficult for new companies right now.

Speaker 0 (24m 17s): Oh, absolutely. At least, you know, people like us are already established. So people know us and people are going to come to us for things. You know, you, you have a podcast too. You do a, a, you do a, a YouTube show and it’s, it’s, it’s very, very, very, very popular. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about that?

Speaker 1 (24m 38s): Well, it it’s came sorts of as Corona. And the first time I had time to look about all the videos. So I started a YouTube channel called the traffic captain. I make my YouTube channel. And then I was uploaded first, all my old videos from the parties, from the different it show events for my scuba diving for my advantage. So after a short time, I had more than 80, 90 videos up there. And I saw that I got one. Then I saw, I had 1000 subscribers, 2000 subscribers.

So now I have, now I have something like 5,700 or something like this. And then I had, I saw that other people do a lot of interviews with me. So I uploaded, I uploaded also the interviews, which they made with me. And then I started to make my own videos. So I think I have now in one year, I make like 25 30, like every two week I do an interview. And yeah, I liked this with the, with the zoom software, because I also want to see the people.

But of course, like Jason, Jason Hunt taught me, Eddie, take only the boys make your own podcast. But as I have already, so many other things to do, I stay, I I’m still the video guy I liked.

Speaker 0 (25m 57s): Yeah. Jason was, Jason was one of our first, one of our first guests on here. And he, again, he’s obviously done some work for me as well. In fact, his company’s doing SEO work for us. Now, now recently, a couple of things happened. The free speech coalition finally won their case on 2, 2, 5, 7 when the government backed out. But that kind of became a shallow victory because MasterCard came down with some strict new guidelines on user-generated content and changes all adult sites needed to make.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if before this runs and visa does the same. In fact, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, what impacts do you think this will have on the adult

Speaker 1 (26m 39s): Industry? Like I do it in this. She always find a solution. And I I’m sure there were more was cryptocurrencies. And I, I’m not sure why they already have, especially with like a big company like breathers, you know, imagine a one or two years ago they made the, they should make their own coin and then bring it to all the other dude’s sites. But of course, especially for the U S market, because U S customers always pay with credit card.

It was a big impact and Europe, not so much because people here don’t really pay with credit card. Only, only 40th, only 45% of the people have even a credit card and they pay with debit cards. And th there, there is no regulation because it’s from the direct bank so they can do, they can pay whatever they want. That cannot be a restriction. But of course, the first moment, you know, it’s always like when, when some big major players change the world, that has an impact, but the doing industry always find our, we always fight back and we find our solution.

Speaker 0 (27m 50s): We’re pretty damn resilient. And you, you already, you already took the air out of my next question, because I was going to ask you, do you think long-term cryptos?

Speaker 1 (27m 60s): Yes. Yeah, of course. Because imagine, especially in countries and countries is a, like an Africa emergency cadres or third world countries. Like they called them that there is so difficult for, for people to get a bank account. And so imagine you have everything on your mobile phone and because mobile phones, everybody has, even in the poorest country, you see people with mobile phones and then it’s easy.

You want to buy something. Okay. I sent you this amount of cryptocurrencies changing and they don’t even know banks, you know, and then why we need, why we need banks, banks. I hate, for example, when I sent money from Germany to south America, they charge, they charge me 50, let’s say, I said thousand dollars to south America. They charged me 50 bucks on my side, 50 bucks on his side and the transaction, the transaction needs five to seven business days, you know, from banks, from, from, from Germany to Bogota, it’s the two main cities, two economies.

Why they need five

Speaker 0 (29m 13s): Business, not to mention well that’s because they want to, they want to float your money. But, you know, I mean, not only that, but there’s, there’s, you know, there’s currency fees and, you know, it just gets very, you know, banks make it very expensive to do business there, robbers they should.

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): Yeah, really. And so I think cryptocurrencies, especially this will take over because people only need to transact at the moment. The problem is a lot of people don’t really know where to buy, to buy. You need a credit card or something to put some money in or WIA. So how does the people in these countries, they cannot get a Bitcoins because they don’t have a bank account, another credit card. So, but for example, I know from Thailand that there’s a lot of people, they own bars or restaurants.

You can go bring some cash money and they give you, they give you a Bitcoins for that.

Speaker 0 (30m 14s): That’s interesting that, that, I didn’t know, but that does not surprise me. And, and I think you’re going to see more retail oriented exchange, not only bars, but shops seven 11. I mean, we have a seven 11, every 10 feet here, as you probably know. So, you know, things like that. And I think banks and the financial world is petrified of crypto personally, as, as their governments, governments are petrified of it too, because they lose control.

Speaker 1 (30m 44s): We had here Germany, we had cryptocurrencies ATM where you can buy, buy in and buy out for cryptocurrencies and the German bank control system, the Baffin, they block them all. And even the, the founder of this company now it’s in prison and waiting for his case because they say he was helping two people laundering money. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s still a fight, but you know, you things, they always find their way through.

I’m sure that cryptocurrency is some of them.

Speaker 0 (31m 19s): Well, banks, banks have the governments in their pockets. Let’s face it and let and vice versa, vice versa. So it’s one, it’s one big circular thing where they want to make all the money and they don’t want anybody else to it’s. It’s the whole

Speaker 1 (31m 33s): Thing. If you see, if you see the, when there was the big bank crisis, 2008, how many billions of tax money the governments put into these bags? Sure. That that was the biggest robbery ever.

Speaker 0 (31m 48s): It was a scam. It was a scam. Let’s face it. Now our business continues to be under attack by government regulation, as well as from private companies. Like we talked about with MasterCard, of course, you porn lost their processing for awhile and X videos. As I had similar issues, what do you see our industry doing to get them off

Speaker 1 (32m 8s): Our backs? Again, I w I don’t really well.

Speaker 0 (32m 12s): The governments, the government seems to always be on our backs, like the Canadian government KV, Canadian government son, you porn’s back, you know, exit videos involved. Now, you know, obviously the media has jumped in with the New York times and all that. So w w what do you see our government doing to get them off

Speaker 1 (32m 31s): Our backs? It’s like, I live in Germany, adhere the government. And even the rules, like if you go to German, Google dot D E you will not even find the big tube sites like YouPorn read or X videos or whatever, because they are banned from the jump and Google. We have feel so strict laws. I don’t all the, all the companies which are doing really hardcore content are not in Germany. They go to Denmark, they go to Holland, they go to Switzerland, or they go to Austria.

The Germans laws for, for the <inaudible> is so discussing hot that all the door companies try to go out of this country. So I don’t know what the, the U S people in government, that’s not my game. I don’t really know.

Speaker 0 (33m 22s): Just, it’s not just the U S obviously it’s Germany, too. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 (33m 27s): This is, since, since I started in the business, the worst thing, I might my fix this pigs, because you, the dude I broke, my, my first domain was with the dot. The E was bushy. Did it? It’s like the pussy poke the in German. And I put, I put, I put a hardcore site on it and I directly got a big fine, because I put there hardcore. Then since this day, I never ever bought a.ge domain again.

Speaker 0 (33m 55s): So you’ve been in the business for a long time. And you’ve obviously done many things. What challenges have you seen in our industry since you started out over 20 or rather, I’m sorry, what changes have you seen in our industry since you started over 20

Speaker 1 (34m 10s): Years ago? Well, I was starting to sell VHS cassettes to pick video shops. Then I started, then I was selling DVDs and all Europe. Then I had my first DVD online shop. So I did e-commerce and then the mobile came out. So we sold stuff on mobile. Then they take LiveCap. You always need to adapt to a new technology. Imagine I would be still trying to say VHS and DVD to shops.

I wouldn’t already out of the business. So adopting new technologies, that’s the, that’s the, that’s the moneymaker in this industry. And of course, if you go on the content side, it becomes always more and more niche. When I, when I started the first movies we sold and produced, they were like, now it’s like, yeah, really normally sex a man and woman goes to bed, have normal sex. If you, if you shoot movies like this, now nobody wants to see it.

It’s not extreme, but niche disgusting. Some of these are like, but some niche it’s really disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, no, I

Speaker 0 (35m 25s): Was talking about just, just standard sex. Yeah. So what, what do you see ahead for our industry? If you could look into that crystal ball,

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): Yours, and if I know it, I don’t tell you, I leave a note on a podcast. You mentioned, I have a great idea. I tell it on your podcast. And then two years later, I see a new company coming out with that and I say, oh fuck. That was my idea.

Speaker 0 (35m 57s): No, but what, what direction do you see the, see the, the industry?

Speaker 1 (36m 0s): Well, I, I think that life cabin dating, these are the big groin areas, especially everything was live. We have also a platform called a mature X where we have gods can do LiveCap. They can do chatting and they can sell the content. This is this program. We have Germany since 15 years. And we, the German name was a better community, so that like amateur goods can do it.

And now we, we brought out a bunch of eggs. It’s the same system, but it’s more for international market. And you see that you see like only was only fans, these big platforms, it’s like sex, sex, going more into the social, social media style. It’s like, if people want to interact with the models, they want to be fans. They want, yeah. They, they don’t want their standards. Things. They want to personalize things like that. She say in the video, yeah.

Oh yeah, Bruce. Oh yeah. Bruce or whatever. So they want their own content. They want to personalize and more social. So it’s, it’s interactive. It, every, I think was interactive and dating is also very interactive because the users talk between each others. Also, we are with our platform in the U S the biggest platform in the U S we have it’s factbook.com. You see that, that is, that is, it’s like Facebook, but it’s for sex. So it’s very popular.

And a lot of people in a lot of interaction, and we don’t do nothing. We only bring the technical background. So let the people do their own stuff and they can talk. So interactive is the state. And of course, for all the new technology, VR, VR, it’s definitely something that the next year coming up, it’s still at the early age and still that’s few companies, but they’re already doing high quality. For example, we invested in a company called <inaudible> dot com that you see all the content in VR.

And I think that the cheaper, the better the technology go, you know, if you see one day in Walmart or Walmart, or in other, you know, in a big supermarket, you see very nice virtual reality glasses for $99. And then it goes mainstream, but everybody have these glasses and good quality at home. And all the computer players, they will buy because they love this VIT reality games. And I was testing some of these content and by myself and man, it looks really it’s.

It’s like your life was to go to the room. Of course there’s, since there’s some technical six foot, but when you use your hands, your heads, that’s no hands because you have only the eye, you can look, but then one day there are some Hollywood movies already where, where people only living in a virtual world. And I think it’s, it comes to this time

Speaker 0 (39m 9s): You had sex robots too. They can be part of that.

Speaker 1 (39m 12s): Yeah. But it’s not only for sex for me. For example, I would, when I come back from, from working, I like to put virtual reality or go scuba diving. At least I have, it’s not the same like real school, but at least I have the view I can go. So there’s a lot of cool thing. Was VR coming up. Cause the dirt industry will take it. Absolutely.

Speaker 0 (39m 35s): They’re always, we’re always at the front of those things. So how did you get the moniker, the traffic captain who gave it to you? Maybe you can tell us a story.

Speaker 1 (39m 45s): Well, it was like, I was always a boat. I grew up on the, the biotech CNOs of Germany. I lived in Venezuela on the sea. I was always with boats. So the captain, the captain was already there. So, and when I, and when I started with the was mobile, I made t-shirts and hoodies for my employees first. And then I was, I, of course I am. As the CEO, I had the captain and then my CML, he had first officer and then my CTO had navigator.

And by my employees, the other had crew. So, and of course the 2d is with the scanner on it. And, and it says only SGM. So it was not so offensive to where the street like Cisco’s mobile, people were pubs in the Jeep. It wasn’t SGM than the skull. And then your rag a little bit like the <inaudible> cool black hoodie. And then all our, all our affiliates, they wanted to have t-shirts and hoodies too.

So we made one of them. We put VIP and we only gave from, I think from the hoodies, we got, it gave only 100 away to our best affiliates. And they had the VI VIP logo on it. And that fall, we had some sexy, I don’t know, some six 60. I know where for our promotion girl, and it was SGI bakes. So we had four. So that comes out at that people started to call captain, kept the captain. And of course, because of the business, we put traffic captain, but most people that they only say, captain, they don’t say really traffic captain.

They said, Hey, captain, what’s up. I have also the domain. I put I some, some years ago, the domain captain dot triple X for, from Steve Winyard when he was working there. And I have, I have, I have a little WordPress site on it. So if you want to check out captive dot triple X, you see also also some information about me and my travel. It’s my awards. And my companies

Speaker 0 (41m 55s): I’ll check. I’ll check it out. Final question. I like to ask my guests this, what does Andy warmer like to do in his spare time?

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Yeah, scuba diving. I’m a scuba diver. I’m a rescue diver. I was scuba diver for 25 years. I, I wasn’t every ocean. I was swimming with sharks, wave sharks, turtles, sea lions, everything. It’s, that’s my, definitely my, one of my favorites hobbies. And of course I like <inaudible>

Speaker 0 (42m 30s): The, the, the party animal captain. All right, Andy. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adult site broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again.

Speaker 1 (42m 41s): Thank you, Bruce. And I would talk to you to make the video w for my YouTube channel. Thanks everybody for listening. Make, you know, follow this subscribe for this podcast. I’m sure Bruce will have a lot of more cool, interesting guests there and see you soon. Bye-bye

Speaker 0 (42m 56s): For tip today is part four of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your website, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it trademarking, your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends.

If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they are more likely to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or view porn, be creative, not just one of many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes on your site.

Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Maria of Best Studios.

And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Andy Wullmer. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Harry Varwijk.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. Adult industry colleagues are rallying behind a GoFundMe campaign launched to assist Tim Lutz, the well-known community figure and co-founder of cyber socket with rising expenses. As he battles a recent diagnosis of brain cancer, the discovery and removal of a tumor in his brain has just become part of his journey.

1 (1m 18s):
And he refuses to succumb to fear notes. The intro from the GoFundMe campaign page for the past 30 years of his life, Tim has been consciously implementing a mindset to elevate his frequency and learn how to enjoy a better quality of life. He’s come to realize that when he exists in a pure state of love, he serves a purpose. His purpose to be love gives him the strong will to live a long, healthy and joyful life Tim’s plan is to not only survive, but to also thrive. Although Lutz has health insurance is out of pocket medical costs and other expenses are rapidly rising. It has always been easier for me to give and difficult for me to ask for help.

1 (2m 0s):
Thank you. In advanced all of my angels for your donations. He said, I am humbled and grateful for all of you and appreciate your consideration. Compassion, heartfelt kindness, and loving hearts, cyber socket, the pioneering LGBTQ publisher let’s co-founded with Morgan summer celebrates its 25th anniversary. Next January donate to his GoFundMe campaign by searching for Tim Lutz that’s L U T Z on fund me expert as award-winning performer, entrepreneur and pervert.com. Owner Lance Hart has launched his latest venture. Get me into porn.com with a stated aim to teach and train the next generation of performers.

1 (2m 46s):
How to navigate the wild wild world of adult. The new site utilizes the combined experience of performers, directors and producers. Candlebox Mickey Mohd, Todd Moore, Aiden, and heart among others member se this include video interviews and anonymous messaging system, online tutorials and mentorship by Regal and longstanding personalities in the adult industry said heart. I’m so excited to get this project launched and out into the world. He said during the pandemic, we’ve seen a huge influx of self-produced and amateur performers take up sex work to help make ends meet, and it found how extremely lucrative it can be.

1 (3m 29s):
Naturally many are ready to take the next step into professional productions, and we want to educate them on how to do it safely properly, and show them how to make their experience as positive as possible. He noted weekly updates are planned and affiliate program offers performers cam and clip sites, a $25 payout for referrals. Visit get me into porn.com and email Lance at perv out that’s P E R V O U t.com. For more details, the free speech coalition inspire program will host a webinar on tax preparation for adult industry workers tomorrow at 11:00 AM. Pacific time led by FSC industry relations advocate, Lotus lane with bookkeeper, Jesse Hornby tax preparer, Lauren foo Magali and adult industry laborers and artists association, founder, Mary Moody.

1 (4m 24s):
In addition to discussing and answering questions on tax filing issues, the group will speak to how performers can take advantage of forgivable loans from the PPP loan program. A rep explained and noted Fumagalli is a veteran performer and IRS enrolled agent. With 16 years of tax experience lane described the 2020 as a highly unusual financial year. For many performers, we’ve been getting so many questions online. We decided to put together an expert panel to discuss last minute filing issues for 2020, as well as PPP loans and strategies for reducing your tax burden in the year to come sex work is real work lane said, adult industry workers deserve the same resources and guidance as those who run mainstream businesses and the same support from the government.

1 (5m 14s):
This panel will help our workers understand how to access COVID support, better protect their businesses and legally reduce their tax burden. Visit free speech coalition.com for more detail, and to register. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker adult site broker is proud to offer for sale and adult pay site review platform. The site offers top discounts to the hottest networks and adult entertainment. In addition, they offer full length scenes to these sites. So surfers can sample the content. Also the scenes serve to keep the visitors engaged longer on the site. Then the traditional review site, they offer outstanding prices to adult networks on behalf of their visitors.

1 (5m 60s):
The surfers on the site will be hard pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time, Brazzers bang bros, and just about every other top adult network in site, they’ve been growing their email lists since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000 in the past six months, their unsubscribed rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well. This has boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding pay site review platform for only 956,000 us dollars.

1 (6m 47s):
Now time for this week’s interview,

2 (6m 50s):
My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Harry VAR. Weich Harry, thanks for being with us today and adult site broker talk,

3 (6m 58s):
Thank you for having me here. So mother

2 (7m 1s):
Now, now Harry’s been in the business since 2000 and in live cam, since their inception, Harry wears many hats. He’s alive cam webmaster for the night prowl studio network. He maintains websites for his company’s in-house models through an affiliate marketing program. He does live cam consultancy for cherry.tv. He performs content guarding of tube sites and doing DMC tasks. He’s part of the AWS summit team and he does media bias, Lincoln traffic traits, and I’m getting tired here and he maintained sponsor relationships of ADW media. So I guess I should ask you Harry, what you do in your free time

3 (7m 42s):
Playing games. That’s a way to unwind.

2 (7m 47s):
There you go. Okay. Now let’s start with one of your projects, cherry TV. Now this is one of the newer campsites out there. Why don’t you tell me more about this platform and how it’s different from some of its competitors?

3 (8m 2s):
Well, the platform itself is, is not debt different from competitors. So it is a freemium platform, which means that models have this other way of broadcasting instead of being on a premium website. The difference here, however, is that the management behind cherry TV is based, based and build up with marketing experts from industry mainstream and adults. They have a combined experience of more of more than 20 years, which is, which is pretty, pretty much needed to upset the Lifecare markets, because this is what charity view is going to do. They are going to upset the life care markets, meaning the bigger premium science house have always done.

3 (8m 52s):
They’re very good, but it is time it time for a little bit of change. And especially because the game-ification part of the web site adds a new layer to the whole webcam experience itself rewards the spenders and it rewards the models. The reward system is also different than other webcam science, meaning even if a model is online and she has contributed her time to the website, but she did not earn any revenue. She will still receive a reward. She will still be compensated for her time.

2 (9m 34s):
That’s fantastic from a model standpoint.

3 (9m 37s):
Absolutely. And I think a Bartel needs to focus on models and her needs and especially regarding payouts daily payouts is, is, is just one of the things which separates them from the big box campsites, right? One pressure on a button and, and, and 20 minutes later you have your money too. That’s great. Yes, it is. It is.

2 (10m 5s):
That brings, that brings daily payouts to a new level.

3 (10m 10s):
Yes. And I think it’s, it matches a little bit the situation off the mouth. I mean, sometimes they are four or five days of life and not making money and still waiting for the periodic payouts. Then why not hit the bail button on the moment you go on a holiday. So you have your cash always with you. Nice, nice.

2 (10m 34s):
Now it seems there’s a new campsite. Every time I turn around, what’s the state of the live cam market now.

3 (10m 43s):
Okay, well, we are still maturing. Meaning webcam sites are still trying to serve and the audience and the models at the same time. I mean, let’s say it like this. We, we have the goal to give pleasure on, on a cam site and measures is just a shortened of sensation. What we want to attribute is to have a happiness feeling. That’s a web web site has a relation with the webcam model that she feels secure. That is really important to have.

3 (11m 24s):
And I do agree with you every time you work, them sites come up, but they disappear also just as, just as fast people are overestimating the markets, definitely they think, wow, I put up a domain, I put up a script and boom, the money rolls in. This is just not how it works. You practice always. Absolutely.

2 (11m 48s):
Now do you think there’s still an opportunity for new people to come in and start a live cam site and make money?

3 (11m 56s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think this year, new, new webcam sites will come up too, that there are always people who she enough opportunity and there is always a rainbow with a pot of gold on yet, but you just have to go for it. The marketing responsibility, the energy that comes in to make a brand run online. It’s tremendous. I mean, I’m a little bit of webcams side needs to understand that in the first two years, they will hardly make any profit at all. All the money will go back into development, into maintenance staff people.

3 (12m 36s):
So I encourage people always to start new projects. But I do know that if I don’t see these qualifications in them, which good websites have that I will see them disappear at the end of the year, I got used to that. We have seen at least 15 people come and 15 people go in in the last five years alone.

2 (12m 59s):
Now starting a new webcam site, if you want to do it right, obviously it takes a ton of money. If you were starting in the business fresh today, where would you invest your money?

3 (13m 13s):
I would invest my money in making relations with cam models that already have a strong representation online. And I would probably try to invest money in having them on my portal to, to get some first attention. I would invest my money in their social media because they already have a tremendous amount of clients that have trust in them. And I will do my best to keep those models on my sites and, and try to have them generate traffic.

2 (13m 43s):
Now you do affiliate marketing for models. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. You were saying

3 (13m 51s):
No, no, no problem. I just wanted to say that. It sounds easier as that it really is. Of course.

2 (13m 57s):
Okay. Now will you cut out for a second? Sorry. You do affiliate marketing for models. How exactly does that work?

3 (14m 7s):
Okay, well, this is a really wide topic. I will give you a small example is a model

2 (14m 16s):
We got, we got time. Go for it. Okay.

3 (14m 18s):
If, if the model works individual from home, her first contact with the sponsor is cited as a model. Then when she goes into her member promo tools, you will also find options to hire her payouts by sending traffic directly to her room through, through, and the campaign link here is where it becomes interesting because many models missed the opportunity to sign up as an monster on the website. They are working as a model so they can actually add an extra layer of income, which is around 25, 30% to the general revenue damn making gift at clients.

3 (15m 5s):
As long as they become an affiliate, I can set up and own that site. They can make a promo call tool. They can have a chat widget with just Dem inside, put on their own websites under the affiliate code. So they build up an excellent defense, which 90% of the models are missing on this moment right now. So what I’m doing is I’m telling the models, Hey, look, here’s where your opportunities are. Here’s where you can sign up as a webmaster. Here is where you can download a WordPress application. And here is a module hosts with a $10 package a month to get you independent.

3 (15m 47s):
And then they actually try it out. And they find out that besides selling their own webcam that time they can also put for party product products on their own website and make income with other programs and shallowly. They are not only a webcam model, but they are also webmaster of their own sites. So it it’s, it’s just about adding opportunities to, to, to their account and taking profits from the fact that they already have spending clients. And if, if a model decides to be on a holiday for her clients can still go to her website, try some other products or spend time with another girl, but the model will still be rewarded for it.

3 (16m 35s):
So she can allow her men, her models, or their members to cheat with other models. And she gets an income from it. How, how widely is this done in the industry? Not very widely it’s here is where on the communities on the chem communities here is where it stagnates, meaning a contact between a model and a contact between the webmaster is being seen as a competitive fit. And I have no idea why, and I don’t know why they keep keeping this feeling up, but model that webmasters are taking that time, that we only want to work together with them.

3 (17m 16s):
So we can have some free sessions in their group, which is completely absurd when we are not into a context like this, we just want to put out traffic on a webcam model that knows how to generate it. So when I go into the cam community in the cam communities, and, and I’m actually speaking with a model that has, has done a lot of work, it has experienced, then I will propose an extra, additional income to her website. And we’ve her experience-based. She gets the point. She understands, Oh, I can also become a web master of my own product.

3 (18m 1s):
And it’s it’s, it has to do with the experience and how people she webmasters and his industry, and 80 to 90% sees us as competition. And they make comments like, okay, you sent us traffic, but you take a part of our income. Why you do that? And then we have to tell them, yeah, but this is what the site emphasizes. While you work on that, they have their own traffic. Where do you think your traffic comes from? It comes from the webmasters. Okay. I agree. Some campsites have their own in-house marketing department for all in-house traffic, so they don’t have to pay webmasters for it. But a majority of the traffic still comes from the affiliates.

2 (18m 44s):
That’s awesome. That’s something I had never heard before. Now. Now content piracy is a big issue today. How much of your time is spent on that area of your business? And how’s it going

3 (18m 59s):
Way too much? The DCMA tasks are taking way too much time, especially because we have to communicate with a market that hides behind a wall, a lot of Russian communication, which goes into nothing. I can say that 60% of the videos are being removed successfully within four weeks. And I think at least 40 options. And I’m pretty sharp on this number around 40% ignores my request and they will play it out as, as, as long as they can.

3 (19m 40s):
Of course, I have to go to channels like Google and hosting, and I have to come up with documentation stamps and all that stuff. It takes way too much time. And it’s a nice, not sure position for this too. I mean, but sometimes these services are hand in hand with the scamming webmasters, meaning they steal on the other sides and they go into a forum and offer that removal. Sure. There’s still another personality. So you are dealing with the fee and you are dealing with the person who’s who, who claims to clean up the mess, defeat me. And in the meantime, you’re all talking to one in the same person.

3 (20m 21s):
So it’s a, it’s, it’s a, it’s a portion of a work that I rather not have comes with. A lot of stress comes with emotions. I could go without it to be almost. Yeah.

2 (20m 34s):
Yeah. That’s gotta be really frustrating. Especially if it’s one in the same person.

3 (20m 40s):
Yes, yes, absolutely. The research that goes into it and the energy and efforts that you have to do, they are not, and they don’t give you a shit affectional feeling at all.

2 (20m 51s):
When freemium websites popped up, how much panic did you feel considering the sites you owned were

3 (20m 59s):
Premium? I can tell you honestly, when the first premium side popped up, I was just being happy with, with my lifetime revenue spenders on the premium science on the moment I saw chatter beds coming up, my world literally turned upside down. I, I had problems accepting them, meaning it took me at least one and a half till two years before I decided to really examine the science and to check the affiliate program. But in the beginning I was not happy with it. I knew that it will crash a few of my lifetime, spend this into nothing, which obviously it did.

3 (21m 44s):
And I was forced to go along with it, but it took me almost two years mentally before I started to accept that this is how it was, was not a nice feeling. Now, when I look back, I’m pretty extreme, happy that freemium has come up. It’s it’s it has given results and situations, which I didn’t foresee that would happen. And I’m really happy. It did.

2 (22m 15s):
It’s obviously a tried and true format.

3 (22m 19s):
Absolutely. Yes. Every portal has his own group of models. You have freemium models and you have premium models. Freemium models are mostly younger, have more creativity, exploit the industry more in their own benefits and premium is really one-on-one. So it’s pretty exclusive. It’s like a girlfriend experience. You can not put more creativity in there. It’s like a talk with a shrink. Now

2 (22m 51s):
They’re both freemium and premium cam sites, which ones are doing better.

3 (22m 57s):
You mean which one is in my eyes? The best freemium website?

2 (23m 1s):
No, between just the model of freemium and the model of premium, which ones do you think are doing better? And why is that? And of course you can tell me who you think the best star of, of each, each model.

3 (23m 18s):
Well, let’s, let’s stay on this example of charter badge because that science has earned their position in the market. Even if it brought me some competitive thinking in the beginning, I think they have improved the situation for models. I am not comparing chanter bank with anything else. So D they are on top for me, for the freemiums and the other sites. I really give much attention for wow. Our top priority. Why? Because since 2008, they, they have intensified a diminishment towards models and, and webmasters by having forums online for just us, by communicating with us a lot, asking feedback, coming with customized promo tools, coming with upgrades, I would say life just meaning chapter Bay are the two top sites and it’s regarding freemium and premium.

3 (24m 22s):
That will be that, that will be not much of a change in, in this year.

2 (24m 28s):
Well, what do you think? Which, which of the two models do you think is better though?

3 (24m 33s):
And, and on, on what kind of a model, what kind of performer you are? I, I would say free freemium is a good start for people who are new in this industry. So they can develop an identity. They, if they, they can find a role in which they, they, they prefer best on a line. And I, I, I, I do think that people going to premium do best when they have experienced from the freemium. This is regarding communication, how to talk to a client, how, how to connect with him on an emotional level, how to entice them to provoke and to flirt.

3 (25m 16s):
This is, this is something that is on premium, more on the focus and on freemium. It is more a group show. It’s it’s it’s you, you, you chip in together with, with other guys to keep the show going and to keep her having this loss in, in, in her private areas. It’s, it’s, it’s a different kind of sensation premium service I’ve seen in service are, are, are trying to chase premium is exclusive. One-on-one, it’s, it’s more personal than, than freemium. So it’s these two differences also splits up the models.

3 (25m 59s):
You have models who are open to, to be exclusive with, with, with one person to open themselves up and to be entertaining and, and, and enticing on freemium. There is not much of the intelligence needed to, to keep this person in the room. It’s if one leaves your chat room, two, others will come in. So it’s it’s about what, what does Sherver is, is, is trying to search for exclusivity or just a quick Wang. And this is where freemium and premium are different from each other. It’s the exclusive freedom.

2 (26m 39s):
If you were starting a cam site today, which one would you pick and why?

3 (26m 46s):
Yeah. Which business model I would pick, I would pick the freemium because I will reach a wide audience regarding performance and service. And I will definitely stay away from premium because it’s, it’s expensive to two brands. It comes with a different business model. I would be more shaved to go for a Freeman side. Yeah. Sorry. I want to say, especially because the big premium players already taken that place, they already won the trust of a large group of spenders.

3 (27m 31s):
And they will keep that trust for, for years to come. So to come up with a premium side right away, and to declare war and competition, that’s not going to help. I will definitely go for the freedom to start off with.

2 (27m 44s):
Now, when you found out that models had no idea that most traffic comes from webmasters, how did you feel? And what did you do about it?

3 (27m 55s):
To be honest in the beginning, it was a little bit frustrated because as a webmaster, you search continuously for acknowledgement of your position here in the market, and you just want to be seen, or you just want to be a part of success. So when a life has made client, Hey, we are so big EDI. We, we webmasters of five, just me and the, we want to take some credit for, for, for that too. Right. We want to say, Hey, it was all in a joint joint efforts to make it big. Now you need to repeat the question. Can the girls, I was a little bit distressed by your question.

2 (28m 41s):
Okay. So when you, okay, will you, when you found out models had no idea that most traffic came from webmasters, how did you feel? And then what did you do about it?

3 (28m 53s):
Yeah. Okay. So the part, what do we do about it? We are still trying to install a short of an idea of what a landmark.

2 (29m 4s):
Okay. Like, so, so when you talked earlier about going on the boards and things like that,

3 (29m 10s):
You speak to individual person, they all have their opinions and they all think different about it. What I do know this, I can community foremost, together, they can share experiences. They can share problems, they have or solutions, but to communicate between demand and supply. And that is not being a stable established on communities. It is however, a great place for a woman to talk with another woman and, and share some experiences on that they have on different websites. There is no such thing as them trying to market themselves more and, and communicating towards webmaster seems that there is still an invisible wall between two people.

4 (29m 58s):
Do you react to charge backs and drops in sales that are on

3 (30m 2s):
Unexpected? Well, Louisa, I can be very honest. A chargeback feels like somebody is kicking me so hard in the balls and crying for the day. Stucco or chargeback is, is a personal thing. It’s you start to doubt your models, the quality you start to think. Did I do something wrong in the click flow on my sites? Did I gave him the feeling he had to spend? Was he manipulated a chargeback, comes with a tremendous amount of emotions during the years. Of course it becomes part of the game, but it still feels incredibly professional.

3 (30m 46s):
And yes, I understand stair damage fraud online. And mostly when I requested sites to investigate the charge back into give me an exact reason, I will be happy when it says one of those stolen cards, then I’m like, okay, cool. That’s that’s nice. The guy got this money back. The bank did the responsible thing. This is how the industry should work. I, if it, if, if it comes like, yeah, he was manipulated by a model, he was cheated. I feel personally bad because I did brought him to do website. I did told him he would have a great time with this model and still it didn’t work, worked out.

3 (31m 28s):
So it charged back comes, comes in with incredibly messy emotions. And it takes a few days before those emotions are dying off. And I’m back to my old shelf. Again, my biggest charge back was $19,000. And my small charge back was around $7. But the warm of $19,000 happened seven years ago, woke up on a Sunday morning and I was $90,000 in the red. That was an incredibly hard thing. It took me around a half a year to get that account back to zero. Yeah.

4 (32m 6s):
Yeah. I can only imagine. How about other drops in sales? How do you respond to those? Well,

3 (32m 14s):
When you read statistics and when,

4 (32m 18s):
When you read numbers,

3 (32m 20s):
You start to understand where it comes from, where is it going wrong? What part of the website is, is, is, is doing bad check and faces to, to other solutions, but to find out where the drop comes from, that is already the biggest reward, fixing it. That is something that it’s not a problem. It will take some time, but to know where it comes from, we just statistics in such a way that you know, where it is leaking, that you know, where things are down. That means that you have a good oversight. And that is a party, the biggest desk here, reading the numbers and try to convert them to text and try to find out where it comes from.

3 (33m 5s):
Find a problem you can fix it. Sure.

2 (33m 9s):
That goes with anything, by the way, getting back to chargebacks in the, in the chargeback industry, when someone charges back for something that they actually consumed, they use the term friendly fraud. I what’s, what’s friendly. What’s friendly about that.

3 (33m 29s):
There is nothing friendly about that through failure, totally agreeing with you. As soon as the word chargeback comes up, all the words associated to it are mostly negative, unless it was a stolen card and the guy got his money returns. Then we get the responsible thing as, as, as, as an industry. But for the rest, there is nothing friendly about the chargeback. Nothing

2 (33m 53s):
Indeed. Now, can you explain the term? And it’s used a lot girlfriend experience, it’s a little bit different on cams than it does out here in Thailand and R and R people kind of chasing the dragon with love online.

3 (34m 10s):
Yes. So we have this girlfriend experience. It’s a white concept. I mean, it can go into every direction. I will see a girl and think, Hey, she looks like my first girlfriends. You go into the room and you have a nice conversation and, and you’ll get these emotions back. And when you start liking a person, just because she talks nicely or she, or how, the way she thinks that’s already a connection. If I am with a like-minded model communicating, she doesn’t have to go naked for me to still have that experience that I’m happy. And of course, between pleasure and happiness, there is a big thing.

3 (34m 54s):
Now, a girlfriend experience is, is category on their happiness pleasure to go away after five, 10 minutes, happiness, happiness, emotion, just girlfriend experience with a model. Then I definitely want to talk a little bit more refer, and this might be two, three times a week, and maybe I develop an emotion. And I think, you know what? I don’t feel bad spending $200 a month on an exclusive experience begins with the same $200 on, on dinners. We, with an offline girl, the girlfriend experiences is, is it a term I use for chats that are longer than 40 minutes and where a client is at at least two or three times a week checks in we the model, just to say a friendly word or, or, or have a little talk and doing a member session, maybe in the weekends or on the Sunday evening, but longer.

3 (35m 52s):
And with more quality, so more texts, more and more exchange of emotions. They’re actually interested in each other. They’re asking for family, Hey, how’s your family doing? What are you doing for work? It all creates these little lines that she’s throwing to him, which she can use the next time again, to continue that bill from experience. When he comes in next week, she was, how was the meeting? Did your boss gave you the compliment that you were shooting for? Did you finish the project? As soon as this member has the idea, Hey, she’s actually thinking about me. That is already a girlfriend experience by being taken serious.

3 (36m 36s):
You don’t have to be in one room with dispersion to still have this emotion. That’s why I used that girlfriend experience term a lot. I like it. It’s it’s it sounds friendlier. And it’s it’s it has a social. Yeah. You will hear me use that word until the end of time. Because in the end, we shell a little bit of proportionality the shell time and all we are not at the red light district in Amsterdam. I mean, Dara is very, now you stand in front of a window, you go in, you negotiate 10 minutes later, you are out. That is, that is exactly what, what we don’t want to have online.

3 (37m 17s):
So yes, of course we have to tell to a model that every client is a human being and should be considered as well and taken serious,

1 (37m 27s):
Certainly the best way for people to conduct themselves in any space. And Cam’s included. Well, Harry, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your website design. Up-to-date do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success.

1 (38m 10s):
If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’ll end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes.

1 (38m 51s):
People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor. You have to competitors clearly doing everything better. Again, emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’ll lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They’ll click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for. If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Leanne young

0 (39m 38s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Harry Varwijk. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Aina Sivceva of Adsterra.

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Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today on adults, a broker talk is of etc. I Aina, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 52s): Hey, thanks for having me today.

Speaker 1 (2m 57s): Nice to have you. Now, Aina is head of the CPA department at the company. She has five years of experience in affiliate marketing. She started as an account manager and grew into her current role. She specializes in every vertical at etc, such as mobile utilities, VPNs dating offers, sweepstakes and desktop offers also software. And ad-ons. She regularly attends events to showcase new trends and develop a partnership with new and existing partners.

Miss seeing you at those shows, by the way, now I ended up believes that business comes in all shapes and sizes. And the most important thing is to find a common language with a partner to have a successful test. Now, et cetera, is a world-known ad network with a partner care approach, serving over 30 billion ad impressions per month worldwide. That’s a lot. It works with over 30 works with over 13,000 direct publishers and over 9,000 brands, affiliates, media agencies and ad networks dealing with mainstream and non-mainstream verticals.

Advertisers may choose between an intuitive self-service platform with automated onboarding, automated onboarding, and live chat support, or working through a personal manager, et cetera, helps advertisers meet their KPIs and grow their ROI while publishers get their maximum E CPN with their easy to use advanced traffic solutions and the best team in the industry. And if you don’t know what those are, then, then you’ll have to check our glossary online.

Well, 2020 pose, many challenges, the online adult industry, sub boom and traffic Diana. Now what big opportunities has the pandemic created for you and your customers?

Speaker 2 (4m 47s): So well, I did sterile where you work without any interactions. Most of the staff had done had been moved online, but the work processes did we change and didn’t get interrupted. We can actually be in touch with our partners 24 7. Yeah. And we keep working hard in our internal updates in order to provide the best customer service. So in 2020, we came up with a few great solutions. We presented a new ad format that helped us to attract new advertisers.

And we invented two unique solutions for publishers that allowed us to work with different traffic sources, not only website, but applications, Facebook pages, and other traffic sources. Wow. Yeah. That’s, that’s great. I will. Yeah. And what I would like to mention also what we’ve noticed during last year that 2020s showed us that desktop traffic is still performing great.

Like during last, last year, mobile traffic was the winner one and what’s performing, but this last year, under new circumstances, maybe people said at home, they worked remotely. And these, all these changes led to the fact that the conversion rate and the face on the desktop traffic has increased a lot. And we’ve got many great cases in adult vertical, such as scams, and datings on desktop traffic.

So compared to the previous years, desktop traffic now is a large piece of cake. So do not miss the chance to work with it. Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (6m 33s): Yeah. I think people look past desktop and there’s still a ton of people using it. I know I do. Maybe it’s just because I’m old. I don’t know. So how does someone choose an ad network to attract traffic to their website?

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): Brief, total understand it can be better, hard to choose the right network that will generate the best to the new possible, but also will do not damage your brand and end user experience in the long run they’ll be for any ad network does consider some important questions like payments on time, on time. And that Sarah would pay twice after vertically and fix a days. And we’ve worked with different payment methods, Elsa latching, ventric, and that say a lot about advertisers on the network because advertisements need to be relevant to, then it will work well with your website needs.

Now the Sarah, we, we can offer wireless ad formats like poop ponder. So social bar, which is new banner ads, native ads, video player, all of direct links. One important part to consider is the safe ads we do have in house anti fraud, checking the tools as well as third parties like edits there, malware like re-directs downloads, it’s strictly prohibited.

So it’s very important that all the say all the ads will be saved last, but not least. I’m really proud of our Supreme account management. W they will guide you through all the complaints. They just, and they’ll help you and share their rich experience.

Speaker 1 (8m 29s): And they also, and they also were the coolest shirts at the shows too, but

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): We really famous of our brands. T-shirts now, you know, one thing you mentioned, you

Speaker 1 (8m 41s): Mentioned about make sure the network isn’t going to damage your brand. How would that happen?

Speaker 2 (8m 48s): It’s can damage your, your brand can do the experience for example, desk, imagine your users goals and the sum, and knowing that with that divestment, then that will pop up. And in thousand times, of course they will leave your website or Google can ban your website and you will lose all your CEO settings the second. Yeah. That’s that’s because it’s very hard to choose right.

Network.

Speaker 1 (9m 23s): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I guess. Yeah. I guess you have to ask, I guess you have to ask for referrals for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (9m 29s): We’ve got, by the way, we’ve got lifetime referral, a referral program, and each partner would joint itself via your referral link. We’ll add you 5% of their profit to your income. Wasn’t

Speaker 1 (9m 43s): It was it. Wasn’t the kind of referral I was talking to, but that’s a good point. I meant like recommendations, but yeah, yeah, yeah. You definitely should talk to somebody, somebody clients first and see how they like them. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (9m 56s): Definitely. Now who got exam experience. Yep,

Speaker 1 (10m 0s): Exactly. Now as a publisher, what should I be doing to make more money with the traffic and visitors? I have,

Speaker 2 (10m 8s): I mean, you sound the, a publisher just continue to develop your site, fill it with content, work on CEO. And then the magical happened by itself because we take care of all the issues related to advertising. Personal manager will select the best advertising four months based on your expectations for revenue and it user experience, they will help you to adapt the frequency filter that dicing feed you can choose.

It will be not mainstream or non-mainstream when our team will work on the growth of your CPM. So you can earn a traffic without any making additional efforts.

Speaker 1 (10m 53s): Okay. So I guess, I guess I should just be coming to etcetera then, right?

Speaker 3 (10m 59s): That should have been the answer. I guess that’s an easy one.

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): So are there any new ad units and opportunities that, that someone should explore right now?

Speaker 2 (11m 10s): Because digital advertising is the government increasingly saturated with every bus yet it’s getting harder to stand out and catch user side because people don’t love like selecting planned lists. They use some tags that block ads and so on. So we believe that interactive formats, which is not new, but there are some experiencing in this year, they experience in seeing a new spike of popularity because users like to be entertained.

They not only having great content, but to get some, like, to get some attention like quizzes or chatbots, it’s the, it’s the best way to get a good user experience. And these kinds of ads, they increase your CTR. And also the increase the time that people spent on the website and many companies last year, and this year already developed their own in the rate of performance that the, the, the tunes to entertain users like at stairs at the, like at the Sarah, we developed our social buyer, tiny new ad format.

Speaker 1 (12m 39s): Yeah. Okay. And we’ll be talking about that. I think in a little bit now, what ad formats do you think work best for promoting adult content?

Speaker 2 (12m 51s): As I mentioned, like, for example, social bar, it’s because it’s very new and it’s fully customized. You can, like, you can choose like around circle creatives, video chats. So res because of that, because it’s very flexible, you can promote a wide range of offers and it’s working great with adult sides. For example, you, as in the top of, in terms of volume since CR and we see great results in terms of cigar NCR.

So for example, social bar, it’s a great to add format to start with.

Speaker 1 (13m 37s): How did you guys come up with that? It does

Speaker 2 (13m 40s): Drive a lot different at pharma and the guy’s like what bullshit age is slowly coming to the end. So we understood it’s time to try some new format.

Speaker 1 (13m 54s): Okay. Okay. So you pretty much told me what social bar is, what makes it so favorable compared to other format

Speaker 2 (14m 4s): Because it’s new, there is no ad blinders effect and yeah. And ads can be really highly engaging for users and even beginners for desktop to understand affiliate marketing can get great results with this ad format we already have in our system already made template uploaded. And it’s really easy to create your own unique creatives, according to our template and AB test it’s really available in like in one campaign, you can test to 15 creatives at a time.

Yes. That’s a really great tends to test all the campaigns and get the best performing creatives for your complaint. Wow. Yeah. That’s amazing opportunity. And what I can mention, ah, the low cost per click is also, I think it’s advantage for launching this app and our tool can assist you in order to reach mutual profit gained experience.

And last year we did a lot AB test on social bar, so we’re ready to share our knowledge.

Speaker 1 (15m 37s): Okay. Okay. Well, I mean, I’m trying to get a picture of it, of social bar. What is it? And you know, this isn’t a V this is a video show. This was one of those instances where I’d like it to be an incident. Since my guest, since my guest is also a very pretty lady. So that, that wouldn’t hurt either, but one of these days I’ll I’ll make this video, but then they have to look at me. So I don’t know, but, but, okay. So I’m looking at social bar. What am I looking at? Kind of explain, you know, so

Speaker 2 (16m 7s): Display format for a month, like banner, but when banner, it can be only like just the square, social bark and B it can get any form like around, or like a notification, like our video bar and you can place it everywhere in any area of your website. So that’s why it’s very unique because for example, for binders, they always look on, on like the same way, web push notifications, web push notifications, they always look the same, but with social bar, you can choose any type of at, like, you can go today with servi or tomorrow, you can go with notifications and then so on.

Wow.

Speaker 1 (17m 3s): Wow. Now, is there any, is there anything like this out on the market besides social

Speaker 2 (17m 7s): Bar? I don’t think so. Social bar is based on in page posts, but in page porch, as like, as web Bush stayed the same, it has only one design and can, can be changed. Yeah. So I think social vibrating, Nick. Okay. Okay. Now you, you know, you mentioned,

Speaker 1 (17m 27s): You mentioned pop unders and that is one of my pet peeves. You know, I, I have to do a lot, I have to do a lot of research for, for adult site broker. And I’m going to like multiple sites. When I go to close the tabs, I’ve got like 12 pop unders oh, traces me off. Especially like, like when I’m checking tubes out and things like that. And, and, you know, trying to find, trying to find the owners of these sites and, you know, to contact them and things like that. I mean, do you see that type of advertising kind of getting phased out or do you think it’s something that’s still going to be relevant?

Speaker 2 (18m 4s): I don’t think so. I like, we’re doing great with Paul Ponder’s deal. Yeah. And it can be annoying or whether you’re, for example, but we right. Tidy things and settings, it can bring you great results. Like a lot of our advertisers for happy and satisfied with the results the, to bring per ponder. So all does matter of like, how do you promote it and what kind of settings do you use?

Speaker 1 (18m 42s): Yeah. I just, I just wonder if that, if a cert at a certain point adds become just too irritating for people, if they’re just not going to be using ad blockers on everything,

Speaker 2 (18m 55s): That’s why we are trying some new. And we think like future at four months will be more personal and more engaged bringing like engagement with users.

Speaker 1 (19m 10s): Cool. Now, now we’re back to social bar. What makes it attractive, attractive to all kinds of users?

Speaker 2 (19m 17s): I feel like I mentioned before, like, it’s really easy to start and you can use pre-made to creatives and that helps you to get the best idea of what kind of creatives to use in your campaigns and hiring gauging ads. You can go with various types of forms of the ad, right. Advantages of using this social bar.

Speaker 1 (19m 48s): Okay. Okay. Now let’s say I have my own website. Okay. How can I use social bar to make money?

Speaker 2 (19m 56s): Or do you mean like by settings, what’s

Speaker 1 (20m 1s): The best, what’s the best way to use social bar? If I, if I want to use it to make money on my website.

Speaker 2 (20m 8s): So you just the copy the code and place it in the header on your side. That, and that’s all, that’s where your efforts and I mean, you still need to work on seal, check to users, do content, but everything related to advertising optimization, CPM growth is all taken by us. And like, for example, but if you have any suggestions for, for the settings, you can discuss this with your personal manager, for example, like you want to choose a certain place on the side or where social Barbie will appear, because we’ve got some recommendations, like do not close the login field or do not like stop, do not place it in somewhere where people have to interact with your site.

It shouldn’t and noise the user experience, or we can adjust the frequency or remove some certain offers from your feed. So it’s all possible just contact your personal manager and they will help you

Speaker 1 (21m 25s): Now, what are the best social bar settings in terms of frequency and location? I

Speaker 2 (21m 31s): Can say the best settings are default ones because our system will have to magically select the best location for your traffic. But I can say these knowing universal solution because each site each website is individual and has its own unique audience and design, but it’s like, like I said, do not bother the user’s navigation on your website, do not overlap any important parts in your website.

Right? So discuss it, did manager, they can share their thoughts. And again, like be the best in terms of user experience or intelligence, the learnings. So we suggest to start with the standard settings, and then you can just change the settings based on the recommendations of our team or by your experience. Okay.

Speaker 1 (22m 37s): You know, one question about working with you guys and working with social bar, as opposed to working with another network, what kind of results? And let’s talk both about advertisers and publishers here, what kind of results can I expect to see using you guys and social bar versus other networks?

Speaker 2 (22m 57s): We talk about display for months or just in general, right? I mean, I can compare the results of other ad networks. I can say just the results or it’s there, but I can say that for now, for example, the feed and social bar is it’s very various and quite we can offer you different types of verticals like mainstream or non-mainstream and different.

They got different confessions rates and different conversion flow. So it’s, it’s huge. And for publishers, that means that they, they will have different users that will engage with the creative and they will be not done. You get annoyed by the ads because there’ll be always something new. Okay,

Speaker 1 (23m 52s): Well maybe, maybe the better, better way would be to state the question this way. How are things working with social bar, as opposed to before you had social bar for both advertisers and publishers, how are, how are the results for both publishers and advertisers with social bar, as opposed to before social bar,

Speaker 2 (24m 17s): Before social bar we had in our inventory web push notifications before we had down recently a month ago, we’ve noted that the CTR increased like 25% more when we started to work with social bar. And that proves that yet that’s a lot. And that proves that users, they started to interact more with our ads.

They started to convert better. And our partners, advertisers, they noticed that not only like installed, but the metrics like installs to trials or two torches, they improved a lot. So we think it’s a great start for social work. Sounds

Speaker 1 (25m 11s): Fantastic. Sounds like quite an ingenious invention. Now, now, now how can I filter advertisers with social bar and pick the exact location for social bar on the website,

Speaker 2 (25m 25s): As per any ad format you can choose, what kind of ads will be displayed like mainstream or non-mainstream, it’s very important that it should be relevant to your website needs. It will be strange if you like on mainstream websites, you will promote them adult content. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so definitely you can filter advertisers and adjust location and social bar, but everything that you need to do with your account manager, they will help you.

Okay.

Speaker 1 (26m 3s): Okay. Now what is frequency cap and how does that affect my CP?

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): I’d make like a frequency cap is the target that allows you to control the, how often your ads will be displayed on websites. Like more your ad. You show your ads on your website. The less CPM will be. Yeah. So the answer is yes. The more pops that you showed the less CPMs, but yes, pregnancy is one of the main aspects that affect CPM, but not forget about like, do your device, browser and traffic source and quality of traffic.

Right. So it’s all, like, there are a lot of factors that will affect PM. Like for example, volume of traffic also matters. Yeah. Like the higher traffic problem, if more chances that you will sell your traffic at higher rates.

Speaker 1 (27m 13s): Okay. Okay. Now, can I monetize my site with two ad networks? And how would that affect my CPM?

Speaker 2 (27m 22s): You can work with two ad networks or even more, but you should understand that it might affect your, your SPM in a bad way. But like for example, a network which is open in the second time might lower your ECPM. And sometime because you will have not like targets 1 24, but it will be always 2 24.

You will get twice more advertising shown and displayed on your side. And also the codes of different ad networks. They can conflict with each other, for example, like you really use to Pope popup coats and they might open at the same time and we’ll block each other. So users will not don’t get any ad instead of making like two impressions that would suck.

Speaker 3 (28m 28s): Yeah, definitely slack. So the Dylan in the

Speaker 2 (28m 33s): Long crown user experience will suffer. And I think it will be not great for your user experience in a lot

Speaker 1 (28m 41s): At all. So if I’m going to try different networks, it’s probably better to try them one at a time.

Speaker 2 (28m 47s): Yeah. That’s, that’s the best way to test different networks one by one,

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): But try you guys, but try you guys first, right?

Speaker 3 (28m 59s): I definitely, and then you want

Speaker 1 (29m 4s): To, yeah. Now we’ve all heard. Or we were talking before about banner blindness when the viewers and users become desensitized to the ads or even annoyed by them. How has this been considered and thought through with social media?

Speaker 2 (29m 22s): Well, it’s social buyers in you at four months and it will just literally didn’t get used to yeah. We working with the, like, we have five different templates, Chad bar in page push. It can be custom banner. It can be video bar or server bar. So as you see, the social bar has variable options. And even like, if user would visit your website several times per day, he would see, see different ads, like even different templates.

Yeah. Chad bar and then custom banner ads. So they might,

Speaker 1 (30m 6s): So they might see, so they might see two ads from the same person.

Speaker 2 (30m 9s): Yeah. They, they can see, but they will didn’t recognize. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 14s): Though it won’t be all the same ad I’m ignoring this. Yeah. There’s a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (30m 21s): Social also has like different effects, like floating or blinking and the attacks and attention a lot. So like, for example, you compare to banner is just it’s square and it’s just picture and social bar, it’s all blinking and floating. And, and though you just compare to it. Very, very interesting for me.

Speaker 3 (30m 46s): I’ll put my sunglasses, I’ll put,

Speaker 1 (30m 49s): I’ll put my, I’ll put my sunglasses on now. And I want, I want you to give me a demo of this too, by the way. Cause it sounds interesting now, where do you see ad trends headed for advertisers in the future?

Speaker 2 (31m 2s): Yeah. This year we see it an NC of not using mislead and creative and more working on exclusive content. Like we think that in 2021 digital advertising will become even more adaptive to individual, not taming for the law, for the pastor’s out, but building long-term promotion. And it will bring you really better metrics in terms of installs to trials and like, or gestation to purchase.

So yeah, better to work on that then like getting fuss to results, like getting all the installs that feel, not performed to child purchase. Right. And one thing that we noticed that Warren, why the Dodgers who work with VPN offers, they testing and scaling on adult traffic felt like keeping your privacy while browsing adult content. It’s very important for the user and our internal tests that prove it, but are not first show sometimes even higher Sierra on adult sites.

That, yeah, that’s pretty interesting. Yeah. So I assume that will be, there will be some exclusive offers from adult play sites because it’s obvious trend for now. And, and also it’s an additional source for income.

Speaker 1 (32m 36s): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I used to be, I go to these shows and it would be nothing but, but billing processors. Okay. Now I go to the shows, I think, you know where I’m going with this and it’s nothing but add people. How do you compete in such a crazy marketplace?

Speaker 2 (32m 57s): We’ve got our reputation, we’ve got our experience. And that helps us to offer more like we’ve got our director digitizers who worked with us for a long, a long time. Right. And we never stopped to do some internal updates to, to make performance of our partners better. And for example, like what we’ve created recently, it’s like custom beat.

It’s very, a great solution for our advertisers. They can custom be like beat higher or lower each placement in the same campaign. So they do not need to create any additional white listing campaigns. Like for example, you’ve got your S great sources that performing great, and you want to get more traffic from them before the forecast and beat, you had to create additional campaign and you had to check that performance on some, for, in other campaign, but now you can do it in, in same campaign.

Wow. Yeah. So I think these kind of things like they help us to stay in the leading positions.

Speaker 1 (34m 24s): Yeah. Stay ahead of the competition. That’s the key you got to keep, you got to keep innovating, especially, especially, especially in this, in this field. So, so how about the future of adult advertising? What do you think that looks like?

Speaker 2 (34m 40s): It’s hard to say because the digital advertising, like the forming and changing very fast, but what still matters, it’s important to one, enjoy the quality of your content. And you, you have to have something exclusive in your inventor because users are fed up and they’re really tired of go bad, or you need to be creative and chase uniqueness in order to attract like a, to, to, to remain attractive for users and increase the percent of your paying Adyen audience.

And it’s like, it’s important. Not only to attract users with your unique offers with discounts on your subscriptions, like providing bonus tokens, but also you need to use exclusive content for promotion, like yeah. Exclusive photos of webcam models on creatives or editing short video previews from bedside to video bars. So it will all increase like your user’s engagement and grease your CR.

So I think that’s better,

Speaker 1 (35m 56s): You know, one of the biggest problems, the last question I’m going to ask you the biggest, the biggest problem that I see with traffic these days, and I hear it from everybody who has an interest in buying traffic and that’s bought traffic. And I think the last statistic I saw was like, there’s more bot traffic in the world than real traffic. How do you guys combat this problem to make sure that your, your advertisers are, are going to get good, good results?

Speaker 2 (36m 33s): There’s the issue with bot traffic a lot. We know that because we’ve got our in-house and, and did she department, they do like they to the daily checking, manually check our traffic. We use our in-house solutions. We do, we use third party solutions. So we try to keep the quality of our traffic or high level.

So we do, we do it day by day. We monitored the quality of our traffic. Okay.

Speaker 1 (37m 10s): Beautiful. Well, I’ll tell you it’s important. It’s important. Well, I, yes. Well, I ain’t, I ain’t. I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adults’ site, broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (37m 25s): Yes. And I hope we will meet.

Speaker 1 (37m 30s): Oh, I hope so. I hope so. I got a hug for you. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (37m 35s): Definitely see you. It was really great to talk to you. Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (37m 40s): My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your site design up to date, do a redesign from time to time, people will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success. If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things.

I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’ll end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good. And you’re the same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing? That you are not doing?

Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet. The competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success. Make sure everything on your site works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’re going to lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They click out immediately and go onto the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for.

If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all of your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Nico from Traffic Fabric.

Speaker 0 (39m 34s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Aina Sivceva. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Bruce: This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Neil Herrin of Vanilla Gaming.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages. Google has placed the website in good search positions.

There were over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There were also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into the new SEO techniques and by traffic only $595,000. Now time for this week, interview my guest today,

Speaker 1 (2m 28s): An adult type broker talk is Neil Herron of vanilla gaming company. Neil, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 36s): Sure. Thanks Bruce. I appreciate you having me on

Speaker 1 (2m 38s): It’s my pleasure. And Neil cut his teeth in the beginning of his it career writing code for an ERP system. He described his first career position as a real life version of office space. After many years of programming, Neil switched over to networking and infrastructure design over the past 15 plus years of his career, Neil has gained a wealth of knowledge on both the and networking side of information systems. This combined with his lifelong love for gaming brought him to start the vanilla gaming company in 2020, the vanilla gaming company is currently developing vanilla beast ACE in the hole.

A hilarious mature themed action adventure game set to release in the fourth quarter of 2022 vanilla beast will leave your side’s hurting from the insane dialogue and comical situations. Take control of vanilla swab, secret agent, as he thought civilians by day and gets the hottest by night. Explore a massive living open world full of side quests, mini games secrets, and some of the hottest adult film stars, vanilla bees aced, and the whole combines retro style pixel art with a contemporary gameplay design, as well as paying tribute to some of the greatest games of all time.

The game is partnering with porn star platinum, bringing to the game. Some of the world’s most beautiful porn stars before we get started. I want to play part of an amazing version of the sticks classic kit lady that Neil is using to promote his game.

Speaker 3 (4m 16s): <inaudible> Neil.

Speaker 1 (5m 35s): That’s amazing. It sounds like you got the original band to do it. Of course, a few of the lyrics are different. Such as lady when you’re blown me, I’m smiling. And I usually smile when I’m getting blown. Give me all your head. My cock fills you up when I’m horny, blow me and my troubles all fade so high, like a cocoa ticketed whore. You’re my, of the whoring.

Speaker 2 (5m 59s): Hmm. Creative.

Speaker 1 (6m 0s): Now, did you write those lyrics?

Speaker 2 (6m 4s): Yes, I did actually. And I try to keep it as close to the actual lyrics as possible. We wanted to keep the true nature of it. Yeah. I wrote that and my vocalist sang it and he crushed it.

Speaker 1 (6m 15s): Oh my God, boy, Diddy. So tell me a little bit about your technical background and what got you into game development.

Speaker 2 (6m 23s): Sure. Well, as you mentioned there, I graduated earlier about 2005 ish and standard operating procedure for most Americans. Right? You grow up, you go to college and you get out in the real world and you start working and you live happily ever after. Right. So I had kind of gotten into the technical side of things, being in it, writing code programming, doing all that fun, that nine to five type of job, waking up every morning, getting into work instead of TPS reports and like office space had, I had crystal reports, right?

Yeah. Got to go through fun, all that and programming writing code. And then after about five years or so of that, I was laid off. I was still a low man on the totem pole there. And I got into the networking side of things and I got to see kind of the flip side of it because it is it’s, there’s a lot of things inside it, right? It is not just one thing. It’s programming, it’s coding, it’s database work, it’s networking, it’s firewalls and servers and all that good stuff. So I seen a little bit about everything and over the last 15 years or so, I kind of became, I guess, a Jack of all trades.

Right. Kind of touched on a little bit of everything within that whole it realm. And over that time span, you kind of find out about yourself, like, what am I good at when all I can join? And over time it just kinda got into like what I really want to do, like with myself at the end of the day, you know, before I’m gone and I leave this world, is this all I want to do? And the technical aspect of my background kind of got me into game development in a way of, I see what’s out there.

I know what other companies are doing. And I feel like I can do it also. Right. And you know, you take what you, what you know, and what you love. And, and that kinda got me into game development here in the last couple of years and working on this big project, started my own company and said, Hey, let’s do this. I’m not getting any younger Bruce. So I gotta get out there and gotta get this done before I’m I’m in the grave here. Oh my

Speaker 1 (8m 22s): God. You’re so young. Give me a break. I got almost a quarter century on you. Okay. So talk about the vanilla gaming company and how it came about.

Speaker 2 (8m 32s): Well, you know, for many years I seen how these major AAA game developers, they’re just dropping the ball. And that just me being honest with you, Bruce, I mean these massive companies, they have millions and millions and millions of dollars behind them and they can barely make a playable game. These days it’s mind blowing, like how terrible some of these games that are developed that are coming out with this massive fundings. I mean, take like the late eighties, pretty much all through the nineties, there was no internet. Right? Right. There’s a lot of people don’t understand.

There was a time before internet, the internet with did not come out with cavemen and work its way up through the centuries. Internet is still a fairly new thing. So what that meant for gaming and the eighties and the nineties is no patches, no updates, none of this let’s make a game as fast as we can and get it to the consumer so we can get their money and then we’ll patch it and make it playable later because that’s what they’re doing right now. I mean, it’s, it’s just a bunch of nonsense. I mean, you get these games that they spend seven years on making over a hundreds of millions of dollars and they come out on release date and you can’t even play the game because it’s, it’s so bad.

If things don’t work, it’s glitchy, it’s, it’s gotta, it needs to be patched. Everything’s broken. So, you know, back in the early Nintendo Genesis, PlayStation days, you know, a company they lived and died by their product on release day. That day one product when it came out as a cartridge, if you can remember back in those days, that was it. And that’s my mentality now and why I started a vanilla gaming company because we need to get back to that indie gaming development. It’s kind of a, it’s its own genre, right? There are so many passionate game developers out there and they just don’t get noticed.

Nobody knows that their games are out there because we’re not getting the big promotions. You know, we’re not sure if we don’t get to commercials on TV, right. But some of these indie game developers out there are, are, they’re extremely passionate. They, they know what they’re doing. They’re, they’re passionate and that it’s their life. Like they’re, they’re making this game because it’s their livelihood. It’s not just another game that’s going to drop in a few months and then hopefully it’ll do well. If not, who cares, we’ll move on and make another one. It’s not like that with, you know, with any game development. And, you know, I had an excellent game for an idea here, which is vanilla V sets in a hole.

And it’s been stern for like many, many years. And just kind of with the pandemic, creating more of a, a craze for in home entertainment, right. In with this idea that I’ve had, it just kind of came about that. Now it’s now, now, or never right now it’s time to put this plan in action. So I went ahead and started up the company a little over a year or so ago. Got licensing out of the way, you know, all the fun paperwork with all that comes in to start looking like, what, what can I do to put this together? And that’s kind of where, where we’re at right now, as far as the early stages of development, but just trying to get this product, that’s been out there for a long time, but do it right.

Do it the right way. Pretend that there is no internet. Right. Let’s get this thing right from the very, very beginning. Some

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): Days I wish there was no internet, no computers. Anyway, I agree. I agree. Hey man, I remember I was working in radio when they were, when they were just started offering fax machines. Okay. That’s how far back I go? So anyway. Yes, I’m old. Okay. So you’re currently working on, as you said, vanilla beast ACE in the hole, besides how I described it, tell me what the game’s all about.

Speaker 2 (11m 57s): Well, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a big parody is what it is. It’s humor. And especially just in the state that the world’s in and everything we’ve been going through. Humor is a good thing right now we need to laugh. Right? I think a lot of times, yeah. A lot of people, we take things seriously. We have to like, we have to stay afloat, you know, the doggy dog world and it kind of a thing with businesses and, and being cutthroat and all that. But at the same time, we can have fun too. We can laugh. Okay. And in games, at least for me, is supposed to be entertainment is supposed to be fun.

When I turn on a video game, I want, I wanna smile. I want to have a good time. Whether I’m playing with my friends with online multiplayer or from just sitting down to play a game with myself, it should be entertaining. Well, I do understand some people use it professionally, like, you know, the mat and tournaments and different e-sports and whatnot,

Speaker 1 (12m 48s): But that’s big. That’s big now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12m 50s): It’s still under 1% of the gaming population, the interest other millions and millions and millions are just casually playing. Right? So this game it’s taken what we’ve loved through the eighties and the nineties and two thousands, just all these different games that’s worked. They’ve had a working formula that’s made the game successful. So what I’m doing is taking certain aspects of those games and we’re making parodies just like movies. Do it, like remember a scary movie that made fun of the screams. And you know, you’ve always got these parodies and it’s usually done, I guess, books do it sometimes too in, in, in general media.

But it’s usually movies. I’ve not seen a lot of games. Don’t this? And I really don’t know why because, well, we’re, we’re,

Speaker 1 (13m 31s): We’re Dell Yankovic has done it for years with music. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (13m 35s): Exactly. Yeah. We, that was killing it with some, with music for the game. As you heard there with the ladies song, love it. And we’ve got many more of those to come. And even the intro is a casino Royale from James Bond intro where we, we parried the Chris Cornell song. So that’s exactly what we’re doing. So this game is all about having fun. As far as the story goes, vanilla beast is really an Americanized James Bond. So you’re going to play the role of the secret agent, right?

And he was a secret name, extraordinary, you know, living a dream suave secret agent who, as we mentioned, mentioned, they’re completely secret agents dating the hottest women in the world. And then as the game starts off, one mission changes all that. So this is a story and it does have a good story to it. And if I had to describe the script that I had written for it here, it would be Austin Powers meets black dynamite. Hmm action. A lot of action, but really funny, but not too over the top at the same time, some of it will be over at the top.

And here here’s an example. Have you seen the movie Deadpool? I have not, but I’ve heard about it. Okay. So in Deadpool, Ryan Reynolds is aware that he is a character in a movie and there’s an audience. He will actually talk to the audience. You know, sometimes the camera will stop and he’ll turn around and like, to just see what just happened, right. There was, this is what I had to deal with. You know, that kind of stuff, video games just don’t do that kind of thing. And that’s what we’ve, we’ve written and put into the game to where, you know, maybe if you die for the third time in the area and instead of just a normal desk screen and you know, want won game over and he’s like, can you want to maybe take the control or your little sister’s hands and play for real this time?

Like, you know, I mean, like, he’s going to make fun of you. Like, you know, it’s going to be one of the things like, hold on. Did he just talk to me and tell me that I’m like playing like a little girl? So those kinds of things are gonna happen. And a lot of mature humor in the game. I just, I don’t know. I think video games these days, they get a really bad rap on what they can do this face. It, these are not for kids anymore. I’m sure we grew up with that, but you know, the majority of gamers are adults and that’s what this game is, is made for. It’s going to be mature rated. So children won’t be playing the game.

Number one, but it’s not meant for them either. I mean, this is for adults that want to have a good time. And when they sit down, they, they’re not going to be treated like a kid. You know, we’re not going to hold their hand. And it’s, it’s a mature experience, no different to going through an R rated movie or, you know, reading a book or whatever that has things that you can relate to, that you’ve seen in life and you can laugh at. And that’s kind of what vanilla beast is. It’s, it’s gonna parody a lot of different facets from lots of different media, from memes to movies to shows to songs.

And the entire ride is just one big action adventure scenario after another. And a lot of really neat different types of retro style levels too.

Speaker 1 (16m 34s): Yeah. And you know, I’m not, I’m not a gamer, but you got me very interested in wanting to play this game already. So you’re, you’re doing your job. Definitely. Neil. Now tell me about the retro style game, playing variety levels.

Speaker 2 (16m 48s): What we’re doing is we’re taking what made so many great games. Great. It’s like what made a great game gate. Great. And then like, I know you said you’re not a gamer, but you’ve probably heard of Mario, right? Sure. You probably heard of zona. Like there’s some games that just stick out and they’re just they’re classics. Everybody knows them. And if you’ve never even played a game, so what we’ll do is we’ll how mature humor and exploration like classic leisure suit, Larry games. I used to love that series. It was made by Al Lowe and a Sierra games. It was called leisure suit. Larry. It was like kinda like a point and click PC series long time ago.

Let’s mature themes. I can remember. And this was, this was mainstream too. This was a while back, I guess in the nineties is when leisure suit li leisure suit Larry started. And at one point you’re trying to, you know, to have sex with a hooker, but Larry understood, well, hold on. If I have a condom, I’m probably gonna get in trouble. So you had to like literally point and click your way to find condoms. And then at one point he, I can’t remember exactly what it was, but I believe he grabbed like the wrong one and it, and that’s a game over right now, your condom busted start over.

So that kind of stuff, it’s like, we don’t see that anymore. It’s like what happened? What happened to where we were headed in the right direction with his type of comedy and style. And all of a sudden we got rid of, you know, w we’re going to come back on that. So there’s going to be a lot of things. And I’ve actually already reached out to Allo and I’ve spoken to him about maybe a cameo ex appearance or something along the lines of that. Cause that’s what I want to do. I’m not stealing anything from anybody I’m taking what made different games great. And just end it into the game. And you know, we’ll, we can touch on that as far as different types of genres and whatnot, but we’ve got like a great surfing level paying tribute to like TNC a surf design in California games from Nintendo golf, mini game things to take a break from the game within the game.

So you can go play golf like the old NES open tournament side, scrolling, BDM ups, like, you know, back in RK days when we still had those around people love games like double dragon and final fight where you can just, you know, it’s like, don’t, I don’t want to think anymore. I don’t want to use my brain and figure, I just want to walk across the screen and kick and punch her by, in the face and tell them to shut their mouth. So we kind of levels like that to real simple stuff. Real basic it’s the variety is massive. And then a lot of games, games are very linear. Usually even if they are OpenWorld, they get into these very, the games feel repetitive.

That’s one of the biggest gripes that I’ve always seen as a game or mine. I’ve been gaming since the eighties, I started off on an Atari 2,600, literally playing in like missile commandment with my dad and Frogger and that kind of stuff. So it was seeing how far gaming’s came. And a lot of times, Bruce, the game really gets in a rut because even though the level may be different, it looks and feels like the one you just got them playing the previous eight levels, right. And the game just gets boring. So another example of how we’re bringing like the retro gaming in is you may go through a level side scroll, and then you get to the balls and that balls fight will play like a street fighter or more combat, or you’ll actually go sideways, you know?

Right. And it’ll kind of, the game will kind of change and then, you know, fight and you have an actual control system of blocking in high punch, low punch kicks, special weapons, all that kind of stuff. And then on top of all that, and this is something indie games don’t usually do because they don’t really, I don’t want to put this average to say anything bad about the game indie gaming industry or excuse me, indie gaming genre, but they kind of, they kind of quit before they should. I think like, it’s, I understand people’s going to make money. Right. And some people, this is all there they’re getting.

So they kind of cut corners in a way. We don’t have the fun indie gaming traditionally does not have the funding until they either run a crowdfunding campaign and get funded or they go with a publisher. Right. So in the beginning, you’re kind of running this off your own out of your own bank account. And so the game suffers from that as it should. Right. That makes sense. And what they’ll do is they’ll quit before, like they’ll have this vision, but it won’t really hit that vision because of funding. So, you know, I’m saying I’m going to go the route of the crowdfunding here.

Right. And you know, if that doesn’t work, we can go round with a publisher, but you really want to use it as a last resort because publishers go want creative control sometimes in the beginning, or if they’re paying your salary, you know, they’re going to want to take over. And I just know my vision won’t be seen. So what I’m promising to do is this is going to get done and it’s going to be awesome. No matter what, it just will take a little longer. Yeah. It might take a little longer if I don’t get that upfront. But as far as the retro levels or whatnot, we’re actually going to have an open world. So you’re not, it’s just not going to be a game that goes through level.

Okay, I’m done with the level start the next one done with this. One’s starting to, it’s going to have an open road. You can run around and you can go to nightclubs. You can go to the strip clubs. You can go to the baseball game. You can head down to the park and play home, run Derby with little Jimmy that’s pitching on the mound. Just whatever you want to do. It’s going to have a lot of variety. And then the levels kind of happen as the story progresses. Right? I think that’s something that games are missing these days. Just the fun factor. Right. And you’ll be able to navigate around the actual levels and the activated or dropped in, so to speak.

So to speak like a flashback, like say, you know, you’re, you’re at the, the park there. And if you visited a couple of times, nothing really happens. You get to do whatever it is that you’re doing. I’m trying not to give too much away here. Right? Sure. And, but let’s say one time you visited because you’ve completed a level and maybe you’ve found this item. Well, now that that actually checks off and code behind the scenes there, that you’ve done everything you needed to do. So now something new is going to happen at a park. And maybe you’ll have a flashback where you’re telling, telling a little Timmy here about the time that you won the big football game in high school and what that’s about and teach them a life lesson and nothing is ever going to be, as it seems, I should say, it’s going to always be based off humor and comedy.

And just those moments where you look at it and you shake your hand said, hold on, did I just hear that right? Is that what he said?

Speaker 1 (22m 42s): That’s good. That’s good. Now the game is being largely built based on humor. Now talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (22m 49s): Humor is the name of the game here. Without a doubt. I’ve been making people laugh since grade school. I was actually took the class clown title in high school there for my class of 99. I know I’m dating myself there, but we did

Speaker 1 (23m 3s): Party. Oh, you’re not, no, you’re not 75 man. 75. Come on.

Speaker 2 (23m 10s): So yeah, I graduated there in 1999 and I can remember that’s always the only thing that was happening right. There was they played princess party, like it’s 1999, just over and over in high school. So I took class clown. Oh, that year proud of that. Right. And I even did scene up comedy Bruce for awhile. After that, with me living in the Midwest here in Cincinnati, Ohio, that it’s tough to do that. Right. You can’t really become a performer or any kind of

Speaker 1 (23m 33s): Stutter. It’s tough to do standup and survive then. Right. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (23m 39s): So, yeah. So, you know, I, I know humor I’ve been all around it. I’ve kind of seen that circuit a little bit, did some traveling and did a few things with comedy. And now as you know, comedy is very subjective, right? It’s very relative to the person receiving the humor. Right. Let’s face it. Funny is funny. I mean, there are some things that’s always going to be funny. You know, if it’s wintertime and I look at my window and I see somebody walking, they slip on ice and fall back and just get smashed. That’s hilarious. I’m going to laugh. It may not be right. But it’s funny. That’s the kind of stuff I want to see when I look out my window. Right. People falling on ice and you know, just take an example, look at the last Chappelle routine and how the critics crushed him.

I think on rotten tomatoes, or you got like what, a zero from critics, but a 98 from the audience. Yeah. It just, it blows me away. How subjective and how relative screw critics can be. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (24m 29s): FedEx. I’ve never, I’ve never been into, I’ve never been into what critics say. I, some of the movies that I’ve enjoyed the most are the ones that got the, the, the worst reviews. So

Speaker 2 (24m 40s): Yeah, you’re, you’re a hundred percent correct. And that was the point I was about to make is that this game, that’s what we’re going for. And I don’t care. Like I really don’t care how, because let’s face it. When we bring in the adult industry into this and mature themes and everything, I’m going to be shut down by a lot of places right off the bat. They’re just not going to want to deal with the game. That’s just the nature of it. But am I going to lose money for that? Probably. But am I going to also sacrifice my vision and what I’m trying to make because of that? No, but that’s what a lot of people do, Bruce, you know,

Speaker 1 (25m 11s): They sell out exactly.

Speaker 2 (25m 13s): And the humor is going to be mature. It’s going to be even raunchy at times, but it’s, here’s the thing. Here’s the key it’s well thought out and calculated. Okay. Not just a bunch of random poopy jokes, right. Or, you know, just saying what we want to say. There’s no, I’m not trying to shock anybody. It’s 20, 21 here. We’re not really shocking anybody with anything. We’ve all seen it, done it all, but the game actually takes a form of narration. Like you don’t normally see and you know, the actual game, character, vanilla, vanilla bean full name, there he’ll be talking to the game.

Or like I mentioned a little earlier and he understands he’s in a video game like Ryan Reynolds did in Deadpool. So, you know, there’s and the game is making fun of itself. It doesn’t want to take anything serious example, Anna, Claire clouds. I’m sure you’re probably familiar with her. Right. So she’s actually in the very beginning of the game, like the opening scene is vanilla and Anna Clara clouds on a speed boat going into the evil cause casino, Velano island. Cause you’re on, you’re on a mission.

Right? So you speed up on that and they have a whole little funny dialogue of what’s going on and they get off the beach there. And Anna, Claire is like, oh, this is so cool. You know, I’m here with you and everything. And she’s, she asked a question along the lines of, so are you just going to like waltz right in the front door? You know, and be the man, are you going to like sneak up in the back door and then see that, how that sets up that Joe perfectly he’s like, well, you know, you know, and tell her what’s going on. He’s like, but speaking to backdoor, wait, here, we’ll celebrate. When I back, you know, that kind of stuff, but he’d just make a backdoor joke, simple stuff like that.

You just don’t normally see in a game. But at the same time, it’s well calculated. Sure. And the game will actually, and I think the very first time, you know, he references Anna, he says, well, thank you, legendary adult film, star, and Claire clouds. Like he points out who he’s talking to to let the reader number or the, the gamer know exactly who she is. Number one, but at the same time it’s so over the top and the way that you would never say that, like if you’re talking to somebody you’re not going to give, spell out their full title, but the game does things like that multiple times, just even in the opening act to let you know that the game is very aware that it’s a game and it’s very well aware that we’re just here to have a good time.

Like, don’t take

Speaker 1 (27m 27s): That. Let’s do seriously. Sure, sure. Now who exactly is the game made? Well, that’s

Speaker 2 (27m 32s): A good question. So obviously number one, it’s mature individuals. The game will be rated mature. Now the ESR B, which is that fun company who rates all the games and, and different types of media across the board, you know, they give it that every one rating or a mature rating or adults rating, this will be mature, guaranteed, no matter. I mean, they were nowhere near getting that rated, but that’s what it’s going to be. I will be staying away from an adult rating because when you get the adult rating, you’re not allowed to go in consoles.

So that will smash millions of people getting a chance to play this game. And it’s not always about money. I’m sure. Would I lose money from that? Of course. But more importantly, I’m going to lose people to be able to experience this game. So I don’t want to do anything. That’s going to keep it off Xbox or keep it off a PlayStation. Right? Okay. So we’re going from mature rating now, but really, as far as who is going to enjoy this game and who were making this Ford scammers that are just tired of, of growing crops and little simulators and walking around, you know, playing these little cute G games and with puppies and unicorns and rainbows, you know, there there’s a game run out there.

And I know because I’ve been around this for a very long time and we’re just tired of the bait and switch deal to from these AAA companies. You know, I’m not gonna mention any names and games, but there’s a game that came up. Go ahead. No, well, no, like I said, I’m not here to put anybody down, but they, I absolutely love, okay. I’ll tell you what I’ll say this. I love the Witcher series. The Witcher three, very mature, great game, loved them so well put together. And then they had a project that they spent. I think it was $123 million, I believe is the number I read to make a video game.

Okay. To make a video game, Bruce, $123 million. Over seven years, it came out. It was unplayable. Like it was so bad. Sony refunded everybody’s money with no questions asked and they ripped it off the store and said, we’re not even selling this anymore. How does that happen?

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): Right. I don’t know too many, too many cooks in the broth. I don’t know

Speaker 2 (29m 35s): Exactly. So how does that happen? So we’re just tired of that kind of stuff, you know? And, and here’s the thing that whole time, while this going on for many year, you were able to pre-order so what does that mean? They’re making probably millions and sitting back, you know, and for sure and chilling on the beach when they should’ve been making his game. Right. I mean like what’s going on here? So this is for players, that’s ready for an engaging story. Good game. Play mechanics, not going to break on you and nonstop laughter while you’re having fun with some of the hottest and coolest women, the adult film histories ever seen that’s tagging along for you for the ride, which is something that not hardly any game ever.

Speaker 1 (30m 12s): Sure, sure. Now you brought that up. You decided to bring the adult film industry into the game. Why is that this

Speaker 2 (30m 19s): Game in the game character it’s well, let me say this. So vanilla beast is it’s partly myself and me kind of telling my story through a game and it’s in a way of it’s it’s all based on true fictional events. Okay. Right. Price of what? Meaning

Speaker 1 (30m 39s): Yes, yes, yes I did actually.

Speaker 2 (30m 43s): So it’s all based on true fictional events. And what that means is, was that real maybe was that false and fiction? Maybe it could have been, I could have actually done this in my life and embellished a bit, or I could have never touched this and took this from a movie you’ll never know. That’s the beauty of this and the adult film industry. It’s such a fun industry. It’s an industry. And you don’t need me to tell you this, your listeners don’t need me to say this, but it’s something everybody loves, but nobody wants to talk about right. You know, I mean, so many people have grown up with certain actresses over the years. And I mean, you know, just back from when things were getting started on DVDs, remember them back in the days you had to go out.

And like, for me in Cincinnati, the hustler store was a really big store. I can, I can remember getting my hands on that. Pamela Anderson tape back in the day, VHS. I mean, that was the coolest thing ever right there, back in the nineties. Right. We didn’t have the internet and all that. Right. And so now everything’s so readily available. It’s I still feel like when it comes to gaming and in some forms of media, the adult industry is still in the dark ages. Nothing good that had done. It’s the powers that be, that are out there that saying you can’t do that. You’re less than this. And I just don’t believe in that.

So once again, kind of like a, as I spoke about earlier, it’s not always about money and this could actually bring more money to the game, but it could also hurt me too. And I realized that with reviews and bloggers, and maybe I won’t get an IGN because they’re just a, we can’t put that on our site, but you know what, screw them. It doesn’t really matter to me because this industry has been a part of my life. Just like you has been part of other peoples. And it’s fun. This game is about being fun. This game is about having a good time and okay. For a power up.

Would you rather jump on a little block and the ground shaking the guy’s over, right? Or would you rather have Jana Michael’s dropped down on a parachute with two AK 40 sevens and wipe out the entire screen, shooting guns with their titties, bouncing all around. That’s what I want to say. Right. I would much rather have that

Speaker 1 (32m 38s): Kind of get back to you on that. No, I’m just kidding.

Speaker 2 (32m 39s): Yeah. You know what I mean? It’s just like things that just haven’t been done right. Is what we’re trying to do. And the adult film industry just, it adds a whole nother layer of creativity that I can bring to the game and a whole nother layer of, wow, I’m actually playing this right now that you’re just not going to experience it

Speaker 1 (32m 57s): Right now. There haven’t been a lot of adult entertainers in games traditionally. Why do you think that is

Speaker 2 (33m 3s): Right? And I mean, a little bit, like I alluded to there, I think that a lot of developers and publishers and, and the powers that be are just afraid. I think they’re scared. I mean, you look at how stern and what he’s done over his career and how controversial that he had to be just to get to where he is now. And it’s the same, it’s the same thing in gaming he

Speaker 1 (33m 23s): Had to get, he had to get thrown off the air a few times. I’m sure. I’m sure you saw private parts.

Speaker 2 (33m 29s): Of course, of course. Yeah. And even before that, you know, I listened to Howard stern and all that before, you know, fun fact about myself here, I’ll never forget nine 11. I was listening to Howard stern working. I was actually doing like landscaping for a company. This was, you know, obviously a long time ago now I’ll never forget how great of a job Howard stern did. He stayed on the air. He was supposed to go up, but he stayed on to get that information about what was going on with nine 11. And he, that was some of the best I’ve ever heard of anybody ever on the radio, how he handled that situation.

Speaker 1 (34m 2s): He’s a pro he’s a pro I mean, that’s, that’s the bottom line is he’s a pro I don’t know. Dunno. I don’t know if you saw the interview he did with Anderson Cooper. I don’t, I’m trying to think. I think Anderson Cooper was interviewing him and it was phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (34m 17s): Yeah. And the guys at class act, but because of the material he did well, he’s some slime ball, you know, he’s oh yeah. You know, no, that’s not the way it works. I mean, that’s what you can think, but that’s just not the truth. Right. So bringing the adult film industry into this game, I understand I’m going to be criticized and there’s going to be a few things against me because of that. But at the end of the day, I get to do what I want to do. And what I think is going to be best for the game, for this product that I’m making. And it’s all about the gamers and what we’ve not experienced, what we want to experience.

You know, I, like I said, I’ve been known as for a very long time and you just don’t normally see this. And I wanted to incorporate this into the game because it just, if it’s not your style, that’s fine. Don’t play the game. I have no problems. I will, you know, I’m not the type of person that gets upset when I see something I don’t like and tells other people not to do it too. Sure. I do live in America and it is a free country still. And, and if I don’t like something, I just shut my mouth and I don’t do it. Right. It should be the same thing with, with movies and gaming and books and media. Right. And that’s right.

Even though it’s not always the case, I’m still gonna subscribe to that personally. So, you know, I’m putting this into the game. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. And it’s something that I think that at the end of the day, when, when the game replays is game, could we get through without this year, I could definitely make this game without it, but I don’t want to, I want to have these legendary women in the game and it’s all positive too. And there’s, you know, it’s all fun. It’s all PO it’s, it’s using them in ways that, like I said, power ups and different types of situations where they come into play and, and Claire just being in, just making a cameo in the beginning of the game and, and just to provide some comic relief as soon as it starts so that you know that the second this game starts, I’m on a speed boat with an amazing adult film actress, and we’re making jokes and I’ve not played the game for 15 seconds so far.

Yep.

Speaker 1 (36m 9s): Yup. Exactly. Hey, you never know Howard. Mike don’t want to interview you about it. I would not be surprised in the least. I’m sure it’s crossed your mind too. So why did you partner with a porn star platinum on this

Speaker 2 (36m 24s): Last year when I started really putting this together and you know, say, okay, how, what do I want to do? I got to have a game plan. We’re not gonna, you know, I don’t do anything in life. If anything people will say about me is that I’m very analytical, very logical. And I guess that’s the it part of me, right? I mean, I’ve kind of been in it in infrastructure and technologies, most of my life in binary, right. One ones and zeros. So I came up with a plan of how do I want to tackle this? And I reached out to some different companies. I see, I did my research.

I on some of the people that were behind the companies, who would, I want to work with, who do I think would see this things through? And what else should I go? So I reach out to some people and a funny story about actually bringing the center of the game, the way that we did and partnering up with, with porn star platinum, is that I’m here. I guess the best way to say this is, I like to be respected, just like a respect other people, especially in business. Right? I mean, like if I start calling you a bunch of names right now, you’re going to end this, right. That’s just not how you do business.

So it’s, and, and here’s the thing when I’m, I understand I’m the underdog here, right? When I’m reaching out to these massive adult film studios, they don’t know me. I know they don’t know me and they don’t have to spend me any time of day at all. So I was really looking for someone who was going to approach me interested. Number one. Okay. I hear your little pitch here. What do you got? This sounds fun. Right. And as you’re thinking about this, so Dan got back to me really quick, you know, Dan from foreign star platinum, and

Speaker 1 (37m 56s): Then, oh, Dan hook, great. Former, a former of former guest on adult side broker talk, actually.

Speaker 2 (38m 4s): Right. And Dan’s a great guy and he responded really quickly to me. But since it had the porn was in the name of his email address there, it went to my spam and I didn’t catch it. So yeah, here’s me being an idiot now. Right. So here I am, the big it guy that always tells everybody else what they’re doing wrong and just fix it. Right. Right. Well, so weeks go by and I’m talking with some other people. And then I just go ahead, let me check the spam. And I seen Dan had got back and I felt like such an idiot. I’m like, are you kidding me? Then I haven’t checked my spam.

And like two weeks happens so much here. And Dan got back and said, Hey, you know, he was interested in and everything. And he wanted to speak with me in it. And I was like, oh man, what a goofy, what is, what’s wrong with me? Right. That’s such a rookie mistake, but you know, that’s like, you know, Derek Jeter out there, you know, after playing for 15 years out there and not understanding to look at the third base coach. Right. And make sure that there’s any science going on. Right. You just don’t do that. Right. And so, yeah, I came back to Dan and I apologize. First thing I’m doing was telling the guy, I’m sorry, this is a real good start as me apologizing him for being a goof.

And we got to talking, and as you mentioned, Dan, Dan’s a really good guy. He seemed interested in it. He, he didn’t, he wasn’t treating us, even though this is obviously business, it’s a hundred percent business. He, he didn’t treat it in a way of, okay, this is what’s going to happen. And if you want to work with us, these are the rules. You know what I mean? He didn’t come at me like that at all. He’s like, let’s talk, let’s just see what’s going on. Real laid back. Real cool. Similar to myself. And, and I had done my research on him and, you know, I, I knew, and I know things about him right now. He doesn’t even know. I know, like in being a bears fan and different things, I did my research.

I just, I wanted to know about the people that I was dealing with. Right. Sure. And I’m like, man, well, he’s number one. He’s a bears fan. So he’s seen a lot of grief over the years. Oh my God. Oh my God has this. Guy’s resilient. He’s a bears fan. Oh yeah. But you know, this little things like that. And just over a couple of conversations, we had porn star platinum itself is it’s a jug or not industry. I mean, he said some of the most talented and amazing women in industry ever come through his network on his network now, you know, been a part of it a year.

He seemed like a good guy. He was willing to work with me. And, and we, through our conversations, it’s just like, you know what? This seems like a really good match. And you know, I am, I am the type of guy that, where you never just want to necessarily jump on the first thing. Right. That you see. But at the same time, if you don’t, it’ll be gone, you know, and I had already been doing my research and I was in talks with other places that have said, no, this is, this is awesome. I really liked Dan. I like what, he’s what he stands for here. And I like a porn star platinum. And I said, yeah, let’s go ahead and let’s do this.

And that was, I was gung ho from, from the moment, you know, right there, right. From the point that I knew that he was legitimately interested in the game and what was going on. And, and we spoke about different maybe promotions we could do and what he can do to help out and this and that. And I was like, yeah, man, let’s, let’s go for it. This will be all. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41m 2s): Now, how are you going to use your partnership with a porn star, platinum and adult entertainer licenses? So

Speaker 2 (41m 9s): I know you said you’re not a gamer and that’s, that’s totally fine. Bruce. There was a game that two K produced called mafia. It was a series. They had three games, really good games. And they started all the way back on a PlayStation two era. So a long time ago, a couple of decades ago. Yeah. And the game mafia or the series, I should say, I loved it. It was a lot of fun, your gangsters. So, you know, you were playing a, you know, a gangster that comes out. He comes back from the war and a lot of stuff’s changed and it’s the fifties, right.

You know, rock and roll is happening. And you’re driving around like Richie and Fonz and whatnot back in the day. And one of the neat things this game did, and like I said, I’m not stealing anything. I’m talking openly about this. Cause I’m not stealing. If you got a good idea, you got a good idea. That’s awesome. I’m going to use it too in my own way. So what does mafia game did? They had a license with Playboy. So as you would be working through the levels or in the open world, you would find a magazine, you pick that magazine up, you click the button and boom, you get like maybe miss December, 1955 full centerfold.

And that’s a really neat way to do that. No games done that before or since. And I was like, well, you know what, that’s one way we can do the actual photo shoots. So we’re going to keep it classy. Like there’s going to the game, we’ll have any hardcore sex or anything like that in it. Because like I said, that would get us an adult reading and boom, we’re off consoles. I mean, they won’t deal with me. Right. So, I mean, but you look at the beginning of all the photo shoots, they start on that kind of soft core way. You know, the girl kind of smiling at ya and maybe starting to take their clothes off. Right. And then they get topless and then nude and then the action happens.

Right? Well, we can go all the way up to that until the action happens. And these can be unlockables you find out through the level, the very first thing, when you get on the beach, when the game starts, there is a secret hidden on the top right corner. And this is going to be part of the demo. And like I alluded to earlier about the game, understanding the game. Well, I understand people’s not going to know that at least not right away. So I’ll give you this first one for you for free. So as you walk to the left, it’ll trigger, oh, they’re getting close to kind of moving on.

Right? So the game stops and vanilla talks to the gamer. He says, huh? You know what? I think I seen a crack on a wall on the right side of the beach. We should maybe go back and check on that. Right. So that lets them know, oh, hold on. I’m about to miss something right away. He’s talking to me and you go back and you look for the crack in the wall. And the crack is literally like a booty crack drawn up on the wall. So you’re looking for a crack in wall. They’ve told me is like the game is, it looks so good. Like it’s beautiful. It’s so appealing to the eye. You just wouldn’t expect them to be saying this stuff he’s saying and doing the stuff he throwing.

Cause it does look so neat. So what we’re going to do is bring these, these adult film stars into the game in ways that you could use, like I mentioned earlier as a power up, maybe have one parachute down. And if we got to a level where vanillas, you know, given a flashback and tell him about how, what he did in Vietnam, even though technically I would have been before he was even born. That’s what kind of, part of the humor of this too. So telling a story about, you know, the Charlies and the trees and this and that, you know, we can have, you know, even Nadi or Giana, whoever dropped down and, you know, to be able to wipe out the screen with AK 40 sevens and then some of them will be in the game as far as progressing the story to maybe you talk with them, they get information.

And it just, it’s a neat way to incorporate these girls in the game that would never be in a game. And really when you get in a game and it kind of the mortalized as you, not that they’re not already, cause you know, a lot of these girls are, you know, when you look at Sophie Dee and her empire and what she’s doing right now, you know, and everything, does she need this? No, but she’s part a part of the porn star platinum network. So you better believe she’s in the game, right? I mean like, you know, we have the youth, we will do that and you know, kind of part of this and Dan, Dan is a very busy man, as you know, I mean, Dan has doing so much and I really appreciate the help that Dan’s put out there.

And I’m trying to, you know, to talk with him when I can about, Hey, can you put me in touch with this person connect? Can I, you know, and he, he has so much that he can do it. And he is a very popular man. But at the same time, I’m trying to do some of my only work here and, and, and reach out. And anybody that wants to be a part of this game, any of the actresses that was like, oh, this is so neat. I would love to be part of this game. That’s what I’m trying to do, you know, get them in the game.

Speaker 1 (45m 29s): So now what are you doing to ensure the success assess of the game? Not

Speaker 2 (45m 33s): Only have I done my research on what makes games work, I’ve been playing games for 30 plus years here, the company, everything, all the paperwork is taken care of. We brought in porn star platinum. That is, that’s a huge powerhouse right. Of, of content right there. But I’m talking with the audience and that’s something, a lot of the bigger companies just don’t do. If you was to jump on a game forum right now and you get to where they’re talking about the negatives of game, what don’t they like, they, they feel like they’re ignored. I’m not making this game for myself.

I’m not making this game just for you or one person. You got to think in a broader scope. And that’s difficult to do because probably get this wrong. But I believe the saying goes, if you try to please everyone, you please no one, right? If you heard that before. And so I, I understand, I can’t make a game that everybody’s gonna, like, I totally get that. But at the same time, I got to listen to what the gamer wants. So I’ve set up through some different modes here, different avenues to let them play a demo early, get their feedback.

What do you like about the game? What don’t you like? What’s working. What’s not working. And I don’t mean like, are you, are you going to walk through a wall and get stuck? Obviously that should never be there, but more. So what do you think about this content? What, you know, how does this type of getting from point a to point B worked for you? And it’s just something that you just don’t see in a lot of these games, these indie games that are so successful and they really launched companies, they launch careers. They, they, they are so successful is because they listen. They, they want to know, it’s not, it’s funny because some games are the opposite.

They just want to make the game. They want to make, they release it. And they’re okay. I’m done. Thank you for your money. I appreciate that someone I’m doing it all. And that’s a fact of life, unfortunately. So I’m doing the total opposite of that. It’s like, let’s make this game together. Of course, you know, the, the creative brains behind it. And I’m the one hiring all the programmers and the animators and the vocalist and composer. Right. You know, I mean, you’ve got all these different, although the difficult task of getting everybody working together and on task and making sure the job’s getting done, but at the same time, the gamer is the one that’s going to play the game and they’re going to be the judge jury, all right there at the end of the day.

So I I’m trying to reach out on forums on discords anywhere that anybody will listen. And, and it would be interested in the game to play it for free check the demo out, which will be fully done here soon and, and get that out there and get feedback and make an awesome game together with the community. And that’s where the kind of Kickstarter campaign is going to come in pretty big on that front too, who can

Speaker 1 (48m 9s): Access the demo so well

Speaker 2 (48m 11s): That’s right now, that’s going to be closed. It may be open public. Well, the demo eventually will be open publicly. So let me word it this way. Right now, the demo is kind of like an alpha, like a closed alpha build, right. So I can get feedback about the game. And then it will turn into an actual demo where it’ll be free on steam for anybody in the world. And you don’t need to pay to have a steam account, which is how you game on PC, right? So are you to the entire world once we get to that point, the closed alpha is really for me to get out to publishers, to bloggers, to reviewers so that they can start talking about the game and getting it out there.

And then also, so I can get feedback from specific people that are going to play the game that I know will give me an honest opinion of what’s going on with it. And

Speaker 1 (48m 56s): I’m sure that’ll hurt. That’ll help. I don’t want her to we’ll help the Kickstarter campaign. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Speaker 2 (49m 3s): Right? So the Kickstarter campaign, that’s, it’s tricky and you know, to be honest with you, Bruce, it’s scary and I’ve kind of always, I always live my life and, and I’m not saying that everybody should do this because you know, also we live our lives own way, but, and maybe a lot of people will think I shouldn’t be this way, but if I didn’t think I could win something, I wouldn’t do it. Right. Like, I don’t know. I’ve always been a big competitor. I mean, I was quarterback of the football team, captain of the baseball team. I played basketball. I’m six, three. So back in, you know, back in the day that was tall, not so much nowadays.

Right. But I was really being into sports, very competitive. And I would, I would go the route to where if I thought I might lose, I’ll make some funny way not to do it or write, you know, joke my way out of the situation or whatever, and just kind of get by with life. So Kickstarter’s is very scary to me because I really have no idea how this is going to happen. I have done so much research about what successful campaigns have done in the past, what failed campaigns has done in the past. Say, and just to let you know a little bit about what Kickstarter is, Damien has not always been on Kickstarter.

That’s actually something that’s been newer in the last, I don’t know. I think maybe five to 10 years, they’ve added within the last decade and it’s for anything. So you go and Kickstarter, you launch a campaign and you say, Hey, my goal is just to make this simple. Say my goal is $10,000. If I get $10,000, this is the product you’re going to get. And in S for pledges, right? You can have rewards within those pledges. Like, okay, if you donate five bucks, this is what you get. You donate 20, you get this, you’re doing a hundred, you can have this, you know, and it’s tech. You maybe have an invention. You, you created something.

You just like, you know, like shark tank, right, right. They go on shark tank because they need that funding to really get their invention off and running Kickstarters the same way. Right. And the trick to it is, so let’s say you said that $10,000 goal and you run it for 30 days or 60, almost a hundred percent of all successful funded Kickstarters for 30 days. That’s just the magic number. So let’s you set this $10,000 goal. You run it for 30 days. Let’s say you’re on day 29. It’s almost over. And you get 8,000 of that.

10, if you don’t hit 10,000, you lose it all, all $8,000 of that goes back to the person who pledged. Right? So exactly. It’s a big risk because now you’re branded a failure. If you fail on this, everybody can always come back and say, why are you coming to me as a publisher? You couldn’t even do this through crowd or the, you know, there’s, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a tricky situation, but if you hit it, then you keep that money. Right. And if your goal is something larger to get this going, like, you know, $250,000 to get this game going, when you hit that goal, that is your money to, to keep it.

You have all the promises, you made all the pledges with the different reward tiers. And now you just got to make the game and back it up. But if you don’t hit that number, like, you know, if your goal is 250,000 and you make 150,000 of that, that’s still plenty of money. That’s good. But you don’t get any of that when it is, if you don’t actually hit your goal all or nothing. Wow. Wow. It is all or nothing.

Speaker 1 (52m 7s): Do you have a release date for vanilla based

Speaker 2 (52m 10s): Route right now? And this is obviously subject to change, but we’re looking at quarter four of 20, 22 games. Usually take a few years to make that no matter what, what the game is. I mean the little mobile game doesn’t really count. Right. But anything that’s major like this that’s releasing on, on PC and trying to port over to console is going to take a few years. I’ve been working on it since last year. Funding has to do with a lot of this. If we get funded early and we knocked that out, I can put more programmers on the game where we can get this done. If not, as I mentioned earlier, I’m not going to sacrifice quality because the funding may or may not be there.

It’s just going to take me longer to get what I want to get out

Speaker 1 (52m 47s): There. Sure, sure. Well, Hey Neil, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adults who broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to hear about your progress on a, on a later podcast.

Speaker 2 (52m 59s): Sure. I appreciate it. I appreciate you having me on here, Bruce. Thank you. My

Speaker 0 (53m 3s): Broker tip today has to do with what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, this will be a multi-part series first to make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic’s expensive. Whether it’s search engine, traffic, review, site, traffic, or affiliate traffic, you paid a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is that you want your visitors to do. In the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay in north America.

Most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world credit cards, aren’t used nearly as much in Europe. For instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from. And Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing parts of the world. Many people pay by mobile, do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions you get. Most of your traffic it’ll make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy, but since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t.

And if you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this as to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate. People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies, where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user, you poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple.

Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out. Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site next, make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer, isn’t good. You’re not going to make money. It’s plain simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or get more information that make the offer attractive and easy to understand, if you’re selling something, make buying easy, show them an easy way to buy and then leave, help them by making suggestions on what to buy.

amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this. If you can, don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to do. It’s not that hard.

Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process, like a human being, whatever you do, don’t turn over that process to your designer or developer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is. You’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Tina of Adsterra. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Neil Herrin of Vanilla Gaming. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Matthew Bennett, the English Leathermaster.

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One quick note, starting this coming Saturday and running through July 5th is the TES affiliate conference in Marbella.

0 (1m 33s):
Spain. The show is the first hybrid TES conference with both live and virtual attendees and events. I’ll be doing a presentation on the ins and outs of buying and selling adult websites on Friday at 5:00 PM. Spanish time, virtual registration is free. Go to T E S affiliate conferences.com to register. And I’ll see you there. Now. Let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re offering a rapidly growing hair, shaving site. The site shows women getting their head shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it’s much easier to promote than most adult sites.

0 (2m 13s):
The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they’re getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There is a sister site that has a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation. It handles the billing and rebilling user information and video displays. There’s also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales. The first month alone, there’s no paid advertising. They go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos, and other social media.

0 (2m 56s):
The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. The site has a lot of room to grow with little, a little more time and investment. There is a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars. There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview,

1 (3m 32s):
I guess today on the adult side, broker talk is Matthew Bennett, the English leather master Matthew. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

2 (3m 41s):
Thank you so much for having me here.

1 (3m 43s):
It’s a pleasure. Now let’s tell everyone about you. Matthew Bennett is an international coach Federation certified coach. He goes over 250 hours of experience coaching people from all walks of life. His background is in international education, assessment, business development, sales, and leadership. Now Matthew started coaching to empower those who society leaves on the sidelines. Namely mem members of the LGBTQ plus community and Kiki community and sex workers. He truly believes that people who live more integrated lives can become more successful and fulfilled. And Matthew is trained and presented in over 13 countries across Europe and Asia.

1 (4m 27s):
We were just talking about the fact that he at one time lived here in Thailand. So we went back and forth on that a little bit. Off-air he managed multi-million pound projects and led teams of people and a range of organizations. His book mastering life has been downloaded hundreds of times and his webinar series mastering life shorts continues to draw in people who want to learn more about integrating life and work. He now divides his time between online coaching training and running his incredibly successful only fans page consistently ranking as one of the top only fans creators. This success has only happened by treating online content creation as a startup business, applying good practices and brand development, planning, development, sales, and marketing.

1 (5m 14s):
So basically he practices what he preaches now, English leather master coaching is one of the only spaces where anyone, no matter what their story can go to develop every part of their lives and businesses and allows people who are LGBTQ plus kinky or sex workers to access the highest quality accredited life business, and executive coaching by giving people a fully judgment, free, confidential, safe space to explore their vision for success and the route to get there. People who have been marginalized can now become fully integrated and more successful. So Matthew, sorry. That’s all we have time for today.

3 (5m 56s):
Tell us

1 (5m 57s):
More you and where you’re based. I kind of get the impression based on the name of your company and your accent that it might be the UK.

2 (6m 8s):
Well, I actually started this company in Thailand. I was working that just before the pandemic and then came back to the UK for a, for a funeral and then got stuck as, as we all know that, that the world is very different. But the nice thing about what I do is I work online. So I’m stuck in the UK at the moment in the future, who knows. I’ve been talking to my partner over, over the last few months about what happens next, you know, one school reopens, wherever they go. And the nice thing is to say is just like you, you can, you can work with a microphone and a, and an internet connection anywhere. So it’s, it’s lovely.

2 (6m 49s):
It is. And I’m looking forward to, to being able to make those choices

1 (6m 52s):
Again. Okay. Well tell me more about you. Yeah, so, I mean, you’ve said quite a lot of it.

2 (7m 0s):
It rolled a stumble to it when only because I was working in Thailand for, for an education company and I was made redundant, they, they had re reorganization of the company and I thought I was going to be working with leaders in international schools actually. And I thought, well, I’ll allow coaching into my, my portfolio of things, of consulting this. I would be able to do with them and really got the coaching bug. And then alongside that. So I’ve been working on, you know, I’d done a bit of online domming and things like that for, for, for, for a number of years. And I realized that actually, I, I wanted to integrate the parts of my life and I wanted to work in a much more open way about who I am and what I do.

2 (7m 51s):
And it all came together in one and allowed me to get to the point in the time. Now I started a slightly explicit Twitter account, knowing that, that, you know, sex sells and to get, to get some attention. And that then led to, to the only funds, which then led to, to what I’m doing now, where I opened up the outer belts industry, met lots of people in the adult industry and realized that there’s this whole world out there that people don’t really know with all these people working really hard in this same way that, you know, a donut shop or a juice bar would be doing to try and improve that the businesses it’s happening in the industry.

2 (8m 36s):
And I really wanted to work with people through that. And that’s where I am now. So I put out loads of content. I try to be very open about what I’m into very, very excited by what people other people are into and at the same time, making some money the way, and then helping other people do the thing.

1 (8m 58s):
Awesome. Now who exactly is English Leatherman?

2 (9m 3s):
It’s I suppose it’s, it’s it’s me plus it’s I am a lifestyle Dom. I, my partner is also my boy that’s obviously I wouldn’t necessarily put out the part of me that sits there in front of soppy movies and, and Kels up in bowls with, with hot chocolate. So I’m not going to be making videos about that. And on the other side of the things, I wouldn’t be making videos about the stuff that gets you band of porn sites. So English or the monster is my online persona. It’s it’s. I try to be very authentic in what I do.

2 (9m 45s):
Uncheck show people what, what they can well, good dominance in, in the gay world looks like, and in a world where lots of porn is, it feels very inauthentic. The stuff that’s shoved in your face, on the front page of the eclipse sites. I try to be very open about that. You can be in a relationship that can be healthy. You can do very, very bad things to people and enjoy it. You can be, you can put parts of your body and parts of your sexuality out there that people can get very excited about, but still be you and still be real.

2 (10m 26s):
So that’s, that’s English at the masters is that part of me. And I, I, I very much enjoy sharing that with the world. Sure.

1 (10m 35s):
Now tell us a bit about what you do and what your journey to getting here is.

2 (10m 41s):
So, as I say, I think it started when I was working in, in Thailand and it started noticing that I naturally found a way through increasing my, my reach with my followers on Twitter and Instagram and all of those places, which then led to, to the only fans and, and more, more recently just for fans, but also realizing that it’s not just about putting everything out there. It’s about working out who you are and what you do and what you will do, what you won’t to, what you’re willing to share, what you’re not willing to share it, creating a voice and a personality and a tone about who you are.

2 (11m 34s):
And I realized that what I was doing was I was building a business. I was building a brand that was the master brand. So English, the master will do certain things. He won’t do certain things. And I realized that I could use my skills from coaching in, in helping other people in that. So by doing that, a lot of the people I coach are, you know, business exacts, who just happened to need some stress relief at home, and don’t quite understand how they can integrate the fact that they like being spanked with the fact that they also a CEO of a company or people who every now and then they’ll drop in the fact that they’re in a poly relationship.

2 (12m 20s):
And that’s problematic for making decisions about what to do next in their lives. So by being really open what’s, I’ve allowed myself to do is to follow those, those people to where they are and say, you know what, I’ve done, almost everything you’ve you’ve ever done. So you can tell me everything and then we can get on with the rest of our lives and planning your, your best, best future.

1 (12m 43s):
And it almost sounds like a lot of psychology goes in,

2 (12m 47s):
But yeah, I mean, there’s a huge amount of psychology. I’m also a hypnotherapist. So, and sort of hypnotic methods within some of my coaching as well. And all of that goes into it where the brain is, you know, if someone is in, if someone is fearful of the future, if something is really worrying them, then they can’t be future-focused. So a good example moments is what the sorts of things that are happening to some of the sites with the payment processes mean that lots of creators and people working on those sites have the think very, very carefully about what they put out, but because they’re so fearful of losing their income streams, then that makes it more difficult to be able to step back and go, okay, how can we plan given this, this massive challenge coming ahead.

2 (13m 43s):
So, so yeah, there’s some massive psychology in that.

1 (13m 46s):
Now let’s talk about the term coaching and I’ve heard it bandied about a lot. Obviously your form of coaching is a little bit different than most, but what exactly is coaching? I mean, what is it in, I know what it is in sports. Okay. Obviously, but tell us more about the coaching you do.

2 (14m 7s):
Yeah. Well, so first of all, my, my, the coaching I do is, is no different to, to many, many coaches. I mean, one of the problems with coaching is it’s non-regulated so you’ll get someone who’s done a, you know, three hour Udemy course calling themselves a coach. Yeah. But the, the form of coaching that’s hard to do if you, it started actually with, with tennis back in the seventies, I think it was in seventies when someone realized that, instead of saying the way to hold the tennis racket is this, and then you move your hand like this, and then you have to follow their movements exactly.

2 (14m 50s):
In states you to the person, okay, hold the tennis racket the way you feel, then I’m going to throw ball and then hit the ball. Now, try it a different way. Now, what works for you? And you sort of, you build on the feeling within the person. So instead of directing a person saying, this is the way, right. You say, okay, listen to your own body. So the type of coaching that’s I would do is I would say, I wouldn’t say to someone, you know, if, if I had a sex worker come to me and say, I want to start my own just a fan site, I wouldn’t say right. Well, you have to look like this and you have to wear these clothes and all the rest of it, I would say, okay, who do you want to be? Who do you want to attract? What, what really gets you off and get them tease those answers out of them.

2 (15m 36s):
And likewise, you know, someone came to me and said, I’ve got this massive, massive sites, and I want to increase my, my reach. And then we would, I wouldn’t say, this is my thoughts. It’s very much about saying, okay, you have mentioned 15 times this thing in the last half hour, and this happens a lot. What does that word mean to you? Keep saying that word and just reflecting back because people don’t really know what’s in their heads and there’s just so many things going on in their head. Sometimes you just need to have someone sit back and listen to you, talk, and then go, there’s the threat here. And, and we keep coming back.

2 (16m 17s):
And one of the nice things about what I do is I’ll have clients who will, who will just talk about their, their business lives, their home lives, that their family lives. And then I’ll get you realize it’s the thread about, you know, feeling disconnected from people. What are you going to do about that? So why, why is connection so important? And then by reflecting back, people get into a much more focused area. Likewise, you know, I’ve worked with, I worked with one, one sex worker who was, yeah. She was a girl living in Atlanta.

2 (16m 57s):
She had a choice between working in the juice bar or becoming a pro Dom. And I was like, okay, where do you want to go? What do you want to do with this? What is it about your life that allows you to do this? And instead of having a binary choice, suddenly she had many, many choices ahead of her. She was going beyond that binary choice into what, what do you want to be? Who do you want to be? And, and how is that going to help you move forward in your life?

1 (17m 29s):
So it’s, it’s a really all about asking the right questions and then listening.

2 (17m 35s):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I’m doing a lots of shutting up, which is something I take very, very naturally. I have to say

1 (17m 41s):
Me, me either. You know, I was talking, I was talking to my attorney, Chad yesterday and I said the very same thing to him. You know, we, we had something that I was concerned about contractually and how it affected my business. And I ended up answering the whole question just by, just by talking to him and him listening. And he said, well, you came up with the answer, didn’t you? It sounds

2 (18m 11s):
Like he’s a coach. That’s exactly what coaching is about. He doesn’t,

1 (18m 14s):
He doesn’t know. Yeah. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. He’s a coach, but he absolutely is. But I think a good term, a good attorney will have those I’m sure.

2 (18m 25s):
Not every now and then a good attorney and a good coach will go, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re about to walk into a minefield. Don’t do that. But you know that once you, you said that you say, okay, which way do you want to go and schedule? He

1 (18m 37s):
Didn’t even say that. I said it that’s, that’s the great part. Yeah. He he’s educated me. Well, now you talk about, you talk about coaching, smart, sexy people. Now, first of all, what does that mean? And I mean, am I smart and sexy?

2 (18m 51s):
You are very smart and you’re very sexy. You don’t really, you don’t really know me. I’ve listened to enough of your podcast. You’re the ones by sexy. Let’s start with that by, by sexy. I mean, people who their gender or their sexuality is part of the story. So whether they are a trans, one of my clients was a transsexual female to male man who was working in, in a sales job in London. And he wanted to move countries.

2 (19m 33s):
But because of his status, his gender status, there were more barriers to that movement than, than for you, for your average person. So it was, you know, I didn’t need to talk about his, his transition. That was nothing to do as me or anything. It was just a piece of information that was always there in the background. Likewise, for, for someone who’s working in another, in the adult industry, your you’re talking about the business and you could be a cake shop, or you could be an online bookseller, or you could be selling online adult content. And there’s just a few extra bits and pieces in that that you have to be aware of in order to, to move forward and by being so that’s the sexy thing.

2 (20m 19s):
It’s, it’s just that gender or sexuality is important in this story and transfer smart. I like working with people who have got a brain, obviously, but also th th th they’ve they’re doing it with some sense of knowledge of who and what they are. Some sort of sense of self-awareness. And I think you have to be quite smart, do that. You’re not just falling into, into what you’re doing, because I mean, people, people end up where they are because they, they ended up where they are. It’s at that point, they can step up and say, okay, now I need to move forward.

2 (21m 1s):
So that’s, that’s what smart, sexy people are.

1 (21m 4s):
Yeah. You, you mentioned transsexuals. We don’t know anything about them here in, in Thailand. Now you wrote a book mastering life. Now tell me what it’s all about.

2 (21m 15s):
Yeah. So I read that actually a year ago. I need to get back and check it over. It’s in somebody’s website, you can download it for free. Let the most of.com it’s it’s. What I noticed was that all self-help books are incredibly, you know, they’ll very happily say my wife, my husband, I go to church every Sunday and they’re very SIS hetro, monogamous, and, and sex doesn’t exist every night, especially if you’re a Republican, you have exactly that will be written by, by members of

3 (21m 58s):
The charity

2 (22m 1s):
Or by, you know, SAS soldiers or by cricketers or something. Very, very, very mainstream. So what I tried to do was I tried to bring together all the sort of advice I’d read in lots of different areas in business, and then in life coaching and put it all together, but with a bit of a bent on, in, in particular LGBT plus or kinky people and saying, okay, when you’re using the CPT, try and build. So that’s cognitive behavioral therapy, not coping bulldozer when you’re using the CBT triangle, then what does that mean? If you’re talking about a Dom sub relationship, for example, or if you’re thinking about drama or in the relationship, how does a vary if you happen to be in a poly relationship?

2 (22m 50s):
So it’s just trying to be a bit more open and so people can read it and go, oh yeah, that’s me. Rather than I don’t resonate with this, this person who goes to church in our console every Sunday, God

1 (23m 8s):
W what would people in the adult industry get from? COVID

2 (23m 12s):
The ability to, well, I mean, it’s ultimately, it’s the same as anyone would get in any industry. It gives them a space to look at what they want from, from their business and to move forwards. It gives, it gives them a next step perspective that allows them to find their best way to do anything that they want. So to fund water, to first of all, to define what success means for you, and then to move forwards and find the ways of achieving that success. And then in the adult industry, where there’s a lot of stuff that’s in your, literally in your face, but it’s very difficult to see how you can find your niche, whatever you’re doing, whether you’re you’re running a website, or whether you’re, you know, a single content creator with an iPhone, it’s trying to find your niche and find your audience and find the best way of marketing your niece, your audience, making sure that everything that is there in your, in your business is leading you to where you want to go.

2 (24m 23s):
And it may be that, you know, you’re, you’re a creator who wants to get out of the business within three years, having made enough money to buy a house, or it may be that you’re trying to buy up one of the major porn sites. It doesn’t really matter. All of those things are valid, but sometimes it’s difficult to get someone to sit by you. I mean, you, you were talking about your attorney, you, you must be able to talk to your attorney about what you do, and you have to be really careful sometimes in finding the people who won’t sit back and judge you for that. So it’s, it’s a minefield. And so finding a coach who is happy for you to, so yeah, I get my, my, my wobbly bits out on, on camera and make loads of money is, is important.

1 (25m 14s):
Yeah. It’s gotta be nonjudgmental, especially in the adult industry though. Yeah. Now, what have you learned from being in the adult industry?

2 (25m 24s):
One of the things I’ve learned the most is how hard people work. It’s, you know, everyone thinks that you can set up a camera and just spread your legs and, and show everything and, and, and you’ll have people running into you. And it’s just not the case. It’s also the, you can very easily be pulls down routes that you look back and think, I really wish I hadn’t done that because you have done that upfront thinking about what, what do I want to do? What don’t I want to do is very important. And whether that’s, you know, showing a particular part of your body or showing your face or using your name, or including acts that you’re not into you, you, you’re not happy about, or by, by showing a persona that gives the wrong impression.

2 (26m 21s):
That means that if an 18 year old came to you and said, oh, I did this because I saw you doing it on camera. And you think, actually, that’s not what I wanted. So it’s, it’s about planning, but people have to really work hard to get that. And so you can get really wound up into an marketplace that you have to get more out, bigger, stronger, faster, whatever it is. And actually sometimes being bad. I mean, listen, I’m in my forties. I’m not particularly timed at all. My I’m quite average in most ways I’m doing well, but that’s because I found my niche, but it took me some time and huge amounts of work.

2 (27m 7s):
And I’ve got huge amounts of respect for people who worked very hard for where they get whatever they’re doing. And I think it starts that real hard work that no one sees.

1 (27m 20s):
Yeah. Well, what people don’t realize who aren’t in our industry is that sex work, and it’s going to sound like a cliche, but sex work is work.

2 (27m 30s):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and if you’re

1 (27m 34s):
Not in this industry, you don’t get it.

2 (27m 37s):
No, no. You th you think that those videos you see of, of, you know, a couple checking on, on the, on their bed, I’ve done without any thoughts. And what you have to remember is the amount of preparation and, and, and, and setting everything up and then the editing and then the uploading, and then the getting it out there that that’s there. And it, the amount of work to get to that place is important. Absolutely. And, and it takes lots of time and effort. And then also within that, the fact, I mean, I do a lot of my scenes with my boy, and we have to be really careful to have a distinction between this is when the camera’s on, and this is when the camera’s off and then make sure that we don’t just say, you know, we got off rocks off together with the cameras on.

2 (28m 22s):
We, we don’t need to touch each other. Again, you, you have to remain in that relationship. In, in, in, in my case, working with people outside relationship, then there’s all of those issues around legalities and paperwork and tests and all the things that you have to think about.

1 (28m 43s):
Sorry, I would imagine a lot of couples who do what you do. I would imagine it can be very damaging to a relationship.

2 (28m 51s):
Yeah. Yeah. You have to be really careful, I think, to, to make sure that you, you keep the relationship. And, you know, when, when my boys said to me a few, a few months ago, you know, we only seem to do this on camera. I had to sit back and go, okay, we need to change something here to make sure that, that our relationship is more important than, than my business coaching the coach.

1 (29m 20s):
What do you enjoy the most about working with people in this industry?

2 (29m 25s):
Yeah. Well, I love, people’s really weird fetishes. I love personally. So this is, this is as a content creator. I love making custom videos because I love people who go, you know what? I want you to be my stepdad, who’s into balloons while stepping on, on jelly babies, or let’s do this. So it’s, it’s the creativity I get from that. What I love from the people I’ve worked with is just that passion about what they do and the death, especially that the people who have been at it for a while, their understanding of themselves, because I don’t think you last very long, if you don’t get who you are and you don’t sort of take that.

2 (30m 21s):
And, but obviously a teacher I used to go into, to school in, in the UK, the teachers are very formal in that the kids are in uniform and I used to be Mr. Bennett in school. And to some extent, that’s what I do now. I make that the master, but I’m on camera and I’m, I’m, I’m Matthew and I’m not. And I noticed that a lot in that the people really work to have their persona and their who they are in two different places. And that takes some time and some efforts, especially when it is literally all encompassing you’re, you’re using your body.

2 (31m 3s):
So I’ve, I’ve loved working with people who are very aware of that.

1 (31m 8s):
I just love the people in this industry, just the people and their passion and their love. I mean, this is like, this is the, I’ve said it many times on this, on this podcast. This is my,

2 (31m 20s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve heard that many times as well. And you know, I’m fairly new in the industry. Haven’t shopped in. Finally, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve had my toe in the water for a long time, but people are very, I’ve, I’ve been amazed at how open people are. The barriers for entry are low. People are very open to, to people, people who come in and say, you know, well, I want to be part of this. And I I’ve loved

1 (31m 51s):
That. Everybody loves new members of our club. There’s no two ways about it. And I, it doesn’t sound like you’ve been in it long enough with the pandemic to really do the shows, but, you know, you’ll have, you’ll have to go to events once they actually start up in person again. Cause that’s the best part. That’s the best part of this. Yeah.

2 (32m 12s):
I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been involved in a couple of the online versions of the, of the in-person shows and I’ve really enjoyed those. Yeah. That’s

1 (32m 20s):
Not even close though. You know, you’re not, you don’t have the hugs. I don’t know if we’ll have the hugs now, but you don’t, you don’t have the hugs. You don’t have the, the comradery, you know, it’s, it’s when this thing’s over, man, it’s going to be crazy. Cause we everybody’s going to be so glad to see each other, you know, it’s going to be, it’s going to be, oh, it’s going to be so nice. I’m I’m shooting for a T E S in September, but we’ll see what happens, you know, I’m, I’m pretty sure that’s going to happen. So that, that’s a good thing in Prague. Now you’ve managed to grow your social media following and fan sites really fast. Now, what advice would you give to someone trying to do the same?

2 (33m 4s):
So again, it, first of all, you have to decide what your definition of success is. So what do you want and why do you want to, do you need 10,000 followers to do the thing you want to do? The people that are obsessed with with very specific numbers, it could be that actually what you need is, is one follow-up who is a billionaire. Who’s very happy to have you and said that their only client they’re only content producer. Right? So after that, I think it’s about authenticity. It’s about really being the person that you want to be.

2 (33m 45s):
Obviously you don’t have to put everything out there. And for most people that would be a very, very bad idea, but it’s, it’s by being the people who don’t last very long and the people who are just, they’re just a faulty part and they are interchangeable with anyone else, anyone else’s body part. And so by, by being more of a whole person I think is, is important. And then it’s about following again, you know, in exactly the same way. But if you were running a clothing shop, you, you put in the loads of clothes that you think might sell that you like.

2 (34m 27s):
And then you notice that certain, certain brands, certain ranges sell really well. So you start following that and you become that thing. So I I’ve got certain, certain fetishes that whenever I put a video up huge amounts of people join my only fans. But funny enough, they’re not necessarily ones that are necessarily into. So I have to then make a decision about whether I want to be the person who tells that thing or whether I just want to keep that in the mix, keep those people happy, but the stuff that I want to do up as well, and it’s so it’s, it’s very much about market following the market, listens to yours.

2 (35m 7s):
You’re watching the, the, the, the lights in a much more analytic way than just saying, oh, look, that’s got, that’s got 500 lights. Then, then I feel good about myself. It’s like, well, why did that get 500 likes or 5,000 likes or whatever it is. Yeah.

1 (35m 26s):
Sounds like, kind of like the goal with your coaching. It’s all about what makes you happy. Right? Well,

2 (35m 32s):
Otherwise, why are you doing anything exactly that ultimately there are far easier ways to make money than, than in this industry. Because if you, if you can go and work in a dead end job working nine to five, and you can, you can close your computer at five o’clock and leave and never think about it again. Don’t worry about the fact that, you know, if someone found that you were working for dead-ends accountants next year, that, that the, the, they, they wouldn’t give you a job. This, this industry is not the place to be. And if, if you want to, if you’re worried about that, or if it’s, if you are worried about that and there’s ways of, of dealing with it.

2 (36m 14s):
So it’s got to make you happy. And if it doesn’t, then, then, then get out of the kitchen.

1 (36m 19s):
You know, you talked a little bit about coaching and goals. What’s the best way to set a goal for your, your life as a content producer.

2 (36m 32s):
I th the, the, the best way of setting a goal for anything in fact, is by thinking about you in X number of years, for some people that will be like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a common first, first coaching session question. When, when you retire, first of all, how will you be if we’re allowed to retire and what will you look back over your, your, your career and say I’ve done, or it could be in, in where are you trying to go with this? What’s you trying to get what you want to feel by the age of 35 or 55 or 95, what you want to have. And therefore, so instead of getting stuck in the mire of, I don’t want to get in an intro and a, a logo and a, had a boob job.

2 (37m 22s):
You, you think about Archie, what I want is I want to be living in this sort of a house or having this sort of lifestyle. And then what you can think is if I’m doing you find getting my boob joke, will that get me to that lifestyle or that she is going to hinder me because by getting the big boobs, therefore I’ll be seen as this person. And therefore I won’t get that. So it’s, it’s questioning the assumptions of the today by looking at tomorrow,

1 (37m 50s):
Just to let you know, the Thai women loved my boobs. So I think I’m going to, I think I’m going to be okay. Yeah. I always get the, I always get that comment. So, so can you, can you give examples of how you’ve worked with people in the adult industry?

2 (38m 6s):
Yeah, so, I mean, I mentioned before the, the, the, the, the sex worker in, in, in Georgia, in the USA, and she, she literally had a choice between working at some juice bar or becoming a dominatrix, but she was living at home and she was, she was very much doing it because she was trying to work out a way of paying her way through college. So we were trying to work together, finding her niche on finding her, her own mind, her online persona, which also was an in-person persona in her case, trying to work out how she could, how she could maximize the benefits at the time.

2 (38m 52s):
So she couldn’t make contents at home, for example. Sure. She was then able, as she had to pay to go to an Airbnb or a hotel room, and then in, she was, she was very much line, how can you, for that a hundred dollars that you’ve spent on, on going there and getting that room? How can you maximize content? You’ll get out of that. So it was very, very tight with her. There was another one who I worked with who was, again, an in-person sex worker in this case. And she, she had chosen at the age of 30 or so to move from a marketing job to being a, an in person sex work.

2 (39m 36s):
Yeah. And so she, she, by having that choice, he was, she was in a very different space. And we were talking about what a website would look like and what her marketing would look like and what she was going to accept she would do. And once you wouldn’t, and she was living in the country where they have agencies for these people, and she had to, she, she had done a couple of these gigs where she was literally puts in a hotel room and then men turned up every hour on the hour thing. And she, yeah, she was not impressed by that. How can I, how could she get out of that system and, and develop her own, you know, customer list.

2 (40m 19s):
So she didn’t have to deal, deal with that sort of stuff, but that was about marketing and, and about also accepting when to say no, in her case and with, with some people it’s been about the plan for, yeah. I’m, I’m enjoying this now, but so I know that my body will give up in, in two or five or 10 years, therefore, what’s the, what’s the next step.

1 (40m 46s):
Do you find as a content creator yourself, the content creators are drawn to you as a coach?

2 (40m 53s):
Yeah. I think one of the nice things, one, one of the issues with coaching is that it’s very difficult to show success as a coach, because obviously everything in the same way that a therapist, you don’t, you don’t put too many, you don’t have recordings of your therapy sessions on the line with many sorts of coaching. It’s difficult to see all of my clients, but you can see what I’ve done and you can see where I’ve, I’ve created stuff, and you can see the success I’ve made for myself and therefore other people come to me and say, yeah, look, I’ve, I’ve seen what you do. And therefore, I sometimes like, you know, can you teach me how to do what you do?

2 (41m 35s):
And I said, no, I can’t.

1 (41m 38s):
Yeah. And you’re not me. Yeah. Yeah,

2 (41m 40s):
Exactly. And you don’t have the same drivers as I do. You don’t have the same enjoyment of certain things that I do, whether that’s an issue of a physical thing. One of the things I love doing is I love that living at a camera, other people would absolutely hates doing that, need to write scripts. I can’t stand scripts. So, you know, th th the way people work will always be different, but they can see that I have done what I’ve done. And, and I’ve, I’ve been successful in what I’m doing. Yes, you’re right. That draws people.

1 (42m 15s):
Now, Matthew, how can people learn more about you?

2 (42m 18s):
So go to my website, English, leather, mass.com. And then, then if you, if you sort of poke around on my website, then you’ll, you’ll see some of my, my webinars, my book, and more information, and you can get in touch with me there. Or you can follow me on Twitter at Elm coaching for the, for the safe work stuff and English at English level M for the non-safe work.

1 (42m 47s):
Fantastic. Well, I’m looking forward to reading that book. I was going to, I was going to buy it, see you lost a sale.

3 (42m 53s):
Okay. Matthew, go ahead.

2 (42m 56s):
Being stuffed. I’d love to love giving stuff to the community because I love it. So it’s out there for everyone.

1 (43m 3s):
I agree with you. I’d do the same Matthew. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult site, broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon. I’m

2 (43m 12s):
Really looking forward to it. And I’m, I’m after a hug. When I meet you in person Monday

1 (43m 17s):
Soon, indeed. Today

0 (43m 19s):
Is part seven of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement and escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do? Now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owners participation will be after the sale, you’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things. If you don’t have experience in these things, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult business consulting. You can get more information on what this company does and adult business consulting.com.

0 (44m 4s):
We help website owners, project managing guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting, payments, production, scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you and save you some money. Let us know if we can help. Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting company to help evaluate all of these things and everything, the site is spending money on and using to operate the website, make sure you’re getting a good deal. And that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better. Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service.

0 (44m 49s):
Many times the server is just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website next week. We’ll talk about how to sell a website. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Matthew Bennett, the English Leathermaster. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Heather Montgomery of Pleaze Me.

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0 (1m 32s):
The site offers top discounts to the hottest networks in adult entertainment. In addition, they offer full length scenes to these sites. So surfers can sample the content. Also these scenes serve to keep the visitors engaged longer on the site than the traditional review site. They offer outstanding prices to adult networks on behalf of their visitors. The surfers on the site will be hard pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time browsers, bang bros, and just about every other top adult network insight they’ve been growing. Their email listens 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000. In the past six months, their unsubscribe rate is in the low single digits.

0 (2m 17s):
Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well. This is boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding pay site review platform for only $956,000. Now time for this week’s interview

1 (2m 43s):
My guest today on adult say broker talk is Heather Montgomery. She is the founder and CEO of please me. And let me spell that out. P L E a Z E M E. Heather. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

2 (2m 59s):
Oh my God. So wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.

1 (3m 1s):
It’s nice to have you. Now I’m going to tell people a little bit about you. Heather created please me to challenge the status quo as it relates to the way people treat sex in life, as well as in society, especially for women, she longed for a fun, sexy place to explore and expand her sexual desires without a backlash in her personal and public life. As a single woman, she didn’t find it. Montgomery’s concept of please me as a tool, tailored to one sexual interest desires and needs latent with diverse resources. Heather has been an entrepreneur and marketing professional for much of her career. Had there previously consulted medical businesses on integrating health and wellness, nutritionals novel, and advanced testing medical devices and cellular therapies.

1 (3m 49s):
In early 2019, Heather became the host of please meet face-to-face series intimate interviews with the innovators and educators of sexual wellness and pleasure. You can find her on Twitter at H C Montgomery 2 0 1. So Heather, how has online censorship effected users of social media and businesses in the adult industry?

2 (4m 15s):
Boy, Bruce, how hasn’t it? I mean, every day we’re hearing more and more stories about people that are losing their channels completely. They’re getting just deleted. And of course they’re censoring their content by either removing posts completely and saying it’s sexual solicitation, which we got for putting a meme up about the Australian kiss and, and, and in a bathing suit in one picture, you know, a one piece bathing suit, we got re you know, deleted because they said it was sexual solicitation, which is just ridiculous. But more importantly, I think what people really need to pay attention to is that how many followers do you have and how many of those followers are actually seeing your posts?

2 (5m 0s):
Because when we dial it back, even our own followers are only getting to see two to 3% of them are seeing our posts. So how is that happening? Right? Why are they not seeing our posts? So why

1 (5m 15s):
Posts, you know,

2 (5m 17s):
Like why posts? We stopped posting on Instagram, unless it’s like a big holiday, or we have an interview that we’re letting everybody know is now live, that’s it? What do we do about that? Well, I mean, it really, it really depends on your business model as, as far as where are you advertising and marketing? I mean, right now they’re, they’re the big player, right? Everybody wants to be able to advertise and market on Instagram, but unfortunately we can’t advertise there either. They won’t take our advertising dollar. So you really have to be creative. I would say, make every best effort that you can to get your email list out of your followers.

2 (5m 59s):
Meaning number one, you have a way to contact them. If God forbid, they do decide to cut you off. And then, you know, obviously please meet.com. We designed that to celebrate sexuality and to be a social media platform where people could be able to interact. And when I say people, I mean, users who are learning and want to know about sex and sexuality, and they have anonymity now. Right. So, which is great because even if I did like, somebody’s content on Facebook or Instagram, that was about sexual nature, I probably wasn’t going to share it. Yeah. Right. Cause grandma was watching.

2 (6m 39s):
And so when my kids and my niece curious, right. And so we see very little social sharing in our

1 (6m 46s):
Industry. Wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. Your grandma isn’t on, please. Me.

2 (6m 50s):
No, she is. She may, she’s a hundred, but I mean, she doesn’t know my anonymous profile. I mean, I have my public one for my channel, my, my brand of who I am, but then I still have actually, I have three anonymous profiles on please me because, you know, I like to dabble in all the worlds. So I have three because I just have different personas for me. It’s a way of playing. If I will. You will. You know, when I went on my BDSM, I put my go into my PTSM hat and then I go chat with my BDSM people. And when I want to talk about feminine and divine, feminine energy and tantra, I go in with my tantra identity, you know?

2 (7m 31s):
So, so that’s, that’s kind of how I see it. But, but this allows obviously brands and thought leaders to talk about sex freely, not worrying about getting deleted or their accounts getting deleted. We re we boost their posts instead of suppressing them, because we’re looking for that content to introduce our members too, because that’s why they’re here. And so do we have the number of members that Facebook has? No. So we’re not, we’re not the, the short, short term solution of how do they get the eyeballs, you know, tomorrow, because we’re still growing. We don’t have the 200 billion members that Facebook has not yet robust, but we’ll get there.

2 (8m 16s):
But, but, but what it is is it is the place where they can tell their current followers, Hey, I can’t post this stuff over here anymore. So if you want my more deeper, meaningful, sexier, fun content, then come follow my please meet channel because we’re not going to delete our Facebook accounts because what you do on, please me is not what you do on Facebook, right? So it’s not a con it’s not a competition. Right. And then, so this is just the place you go to play and have some fun and learn and expand your sexuality. So it’s complimentary not, not competition, if that makes sense. So

1 (8m 55s):
Three profiles. Hmm. A little bit of a split personality there. I love it. I love it. You know, I heard recently the European branch of the free speech coalition is petitioning. I don’t know what body it is in the EU. They’re coming up with some kind of internet law and they’re, they’re, they’re petitioning against censorship for the sexual industry.

2 (9m 24s):
Great. I’d love to get right on board with that and post it all over, please me and tell all 420 channels about it so they can get on board. I mean, this is what we’re passionate about. I’m a huge advocate for free speech. I think it’s very important to have both sides of an argument be heard. And I say argument, but discussion. I mean, thought process. And, and when we it’s, it’s important for innovation, it’s important for education. It’s important for development of anything ma that matters, right? So can’t stand to see this, this, this violation of our rights, especially in this country where we have them.

2 (10m 4s):
Yeah. Supposedly that’s a, yeah, that’s a,

1 (10m 7s):
That’s what the constitution says, how it’s being carried out as another is another matter. So how has marketing changed for the adult industry since foster sistah was passed?

2 (10m 20s):
Let’s be fair. I mean, we’ve always had censorship, right? Where we’ve been treated like the redheaded stepchild for a long time. However, what happened in 2018 is that the protection of well, which is all we all the, all the rage right now is to talk about, you know, this act from 1984 that we’ve had that protects indemnifies internet providers from the activity of their members. Right. It allows us to be able to provide technology so people can use it because we can’t be responsible for every single person on our platform and what they do. Right. That’s what the communications act, right. Section 2, 3, 4 is all about, but what foster assessed it did is it said, okay, yes, you have protection 2, 3, 4 for everything.

2 (11m 6s):
Except if there’s anything that’s going on and they put it under the human trafficking, we’re doing this to stop human trafficking, which by the way, I am a huge abolitionists for sex trafficking. And we shouldn’t pass the stop. It’s the third fastest growing criminal enterprise in the world. And we still have slavery and it’s called sex trafficking. Right? So we want to talk about racism. Well, let’s end slavery first, come on. People. We still have slaves running around. Right. So let’s get to that. And so I think it’s important that we do tackle that subject and find a way to do it. But what they did was lumped in prostitution into the law and said, if you’re doing anything that like marketing prostitution or advertising any sex work and, or have anybody being sex trafficked and, or have any child pornography, which I agree, we should not have child pornography.

2 (12m 4s):
We should not have people being sex trafficked online. And it’s, it’s, it is bad, but it removed those, those safeguards from 2, 3, 4. And so

1 (12m 14s):
Now by the way, two, three, oh,

2 (12m 17s):
And so now two 30 section 2 36,

1 (12m 21s):
Don’t worry about it. Yeah, I know. I know. And I asked I, and I asked you to, I asked you to do this at eight in the morning. So I it’s that’s, that’s my fault. I’m sure. You know what it is.

2 (12m 32s):
Yes. And so at any rate, those, those protections are no longer there. So now people are criminal. The people that own, these companies are not only civilly or criminally liable, but also civilly liable. So anybody can Sue anybody for anything these days and you have to then defend yourself in a court of law. And so, and then there’s and they do. And then there’s of course the civil part or the criminal part, which not only can you be fined, but you can face jail time. Right? So it’s, it’s a serious and scary thing. Right? And there’s the added problem of these platforms have 13 year olds and up on them, right.

2 (13m 13s):
Facebook and all these other platforms have allow their members to be 13 years of older. So the reason why the, the increase in censorship, especially on, well, let’s just say on sex and sexuality, cause there’s other censorship going on right now, too. But that particular censorship started in April and we saw it. We’ve seen it roll out. We’ve seen Tumblr Tumblr say no longer handling adult content, right? That’s the first big Lego to fall or domino to fall. And then we started seeing the revision to terms and service and the deletion of posts and the deletions of accounts left and right.

2 (13m 54s):
And the introduction of AI algorithms to help them try to get rid of some of this content, but the problem that they face. And, and I don’t, I don’t try to bill Annise them because there are real problems that they face. And I don’t know that the, I don’t think they want to suppress sexual content and maybe they do, but, but I, I would bet that they probably don’t. I think they’re just doing it for, to, you know, they, they

1 (14m 20s):
Have, they want to

2 (14m 22s):
Cover their ass, but they also have big advertisers that say, Hey, if you’re allowing advertising or you’re being associated with this, this, this, and this, and we’re not going to spend our money with you. Right. But I think, I think Facebook is pretty big now. I think they could probably tell everybody to bugger off if they wanted to, you don’t want to spend your dollars, your dope, the block, where are you going to get better ROI and a bigger pool of people. So I think it’s more about the cover, your ass thing.

1 (14m 49s):
Don’t talk to me about Facebook. I can’t even post, like on any of my, on any of my accounts because of their stupid AI over me over me, wishing a friend happy birthday. Okay. So I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve deleted Facebook on all my devices just to let you know.

2 (15m 5s):
Yeah, me too. I didn’t even load it on my new phone because I just don’t even want to go there. It’s not even, I haven’t been deleted. It’s just like, I just don’t even want it. I just don’t. I’m done well. And when you talk, when you

1 (15m 15s):
Talk about the whole sex trafficking thing, which was supposed to be the reason for all this, and I, I blame the politicians who sponsored it, not gonna mention any names, but ones in the ones in the white house, you know, it’s supposed to cut down on sex trafficking and not only did it not cut down on sex trafficking, it made sex trafficking worse because right now, law enforcement doesn’t have those escort sites to find the sex traffickers and entrap them. But at the same time, it’s made sex workers unsafe because they can’t vet Johns. And a lot of them have been driven to the streets.

1 (15m 55s):
So now there’s, this law stinks from top to bottom. And I think eventually I hope eventually it’s abolished. I expect to see a Supreme court challenge of it at some point where that goes, God knows, but we won’t, we won’t get into that.

2 (16m 14s):
Yeah. Yup. No, I mean, it’s, it’s, you know, the people that make the laws sometimes, obviously, as we all have experienced, clearly don’t think no,

1 (16m 27s):
No, stop there. Stop. There don’t think exactly. They don’t

2 (16m 31s):
Think like, how is this going to affect everything else? And are we really putting together good letters, legislation that has a chance of actually really solving this problem? And so I don’t, you

1 (16m 42s):
Know, no, no, it wasn’t there. I didn’t

2 (16m 44s):
Do it. But I, I agree with you that it’s had a horrendous effect and I mean, it’s visible world war. I mean, it’s huge. Well,

1 (16m 55s):
Speaking of nothing, we’re recording this the day after a prominent Republican Republican Congressman from your state has been, has been charged with a sex with a 14 year old girls. So there ya go. And that they could be punished to the nth degree of the law. If it’s true. I won’t mention his name, Matt Goetz. Anyway. So how are you different from other platforms that support adult content like safety?

2 (17m 26s):
Yeah, I mean, so number one, obviously we started building the top technology in 2018 and we’ve been working on it every single day since, and we will continue to evolve the technology as we, this is what we call an MVP a, which stands for minimum viable product, but it’s a souped up. It’s a very well-functioning MVP, but I say it that because there’s so many things I want it to be able to do. Yeah. Eventually put on a VR headset and walk inside one of the seven worlds of please meet for example, but that’s a little bit further down the line. Yeah. So I think one of the primary ways that we’re different than FetLife is from, from what I understand. And I went on it briefly and I talked to a lot of people that are on it.

2 (18m 10s):
They haven’t really done much with the technology in the last five or 10 years, however long they’ve been around. I don’t think, yeah. I don’t think they, they up there, their software and make changes. Right? So it’s, it’s really, labor is really a community, which we will be too, but we’re more of a technology company, right? We’re going to continue to innovate. We’re going to continue to expand. We’re going to continue to add FinTech for our industry. We’re going to be doing. And when I say for our industry, I think the difference also too, between FetLife and us is they’re very specific obviously to the ESM. Whereas we are sexual wellness and pleasure across the board. I wanted everyone to be able to feel like they have a place where they can have resources for their sex sexuality, regardless of their preference.

2 (18m 58s):
Because when I want to do explore, I wanted to go onto FetLife because I was kind of curious about media semi hadn’t had any experience with it yet, but it was just a little too scary. And what I mean by that is too much unknown. And I felt like I’m, I’m going to be this newbie and I’m going to, I didn’t, you know, I’m going to go on and everybody’s going to be like, wow, <inaudible> what I was talking about. I didn’t know what to expect. And you know, already it’s that control versus submission and paying for pleasure. So it was kind of like a little scary anyway, you know, in your mind, of course, it’s not right. We know this if you’ve been involved in it, but when you’re, when you haven’t, you don’t know that.

2 (19m 41s):
So I don’t know. I don’t know

1 (19m 43s):
If you’ve sat through a taping of one of kink dot comes, BDSM scenes like I have. And I brought my, and I brought my, a very innocent Tai Tai girlfriend at the time who became my wife to the party. It was a, it was at the kink castle, which no longer exists in San Francisco. Oh, it scared me.

2 (20m 6s):
Yeah. Well that’s what I was worried about for like two days. And I’m like, oh, and it was dark and it was black. And it was, you know, the software inside of it even felt like a little, like, I feel scared, but I know people love FetLife. And I don’t mean, and I only mean to put it down because it’s a great community. And I know that people have been on there for a long time and they are able to connect with one another. And I think it’s great. I think it’s wonderful. So yeah, we’re very, we’re very similar in the sense that it’s a community where you can, we’re more like Facebook.

2 (20m 46s):
I mean, we like them very much, but from a functionality standpoint where businesses have business pages, people have personal accounts, you can follow people, you can follow businesses, they show up in your feed, they can post an article. I used,

1 (21m 0s):
I used to have, I used to have all that Facebook.

2 (21m 5s):
Right, exactly. So, and I think that life isn’t, isn’t designed that way. Right, right, right, right. There’s different places you can go and there’s different things you can do. And there’s people you can connect with. And there’s a bit, you know, like we’re, we’re much more, we have that similar feel, I guess, to, to play, but that’s where it ends. Right. Right. We have seven worlds and there’s also places you can go and explore and there’s going to be events, calendars and things like that. Sexy travel, which of course, COVID-19 kind of put up those two channels on hold. Well, there’s nobody doing anything.

1 (21m 40s):
Right, right, right. Exactly. But

2 (21m 43s):
Yeah, that, that’s what we do. And that’s what, we’re what we’re all about. And I think sites like FetLife and all the others, we’re an aggregator of content. And so they should all have channels and let their people,

1 (21m 56s):
I was going to say, I was going to say that, that you should be partnering with these people.

2 (22m 1s):
Well, I mean, I don’t have to partner. They have the technology, they can use it. Meaning we’ll gladly. That’s what we designed it for. I guess always partners. But my point being, we don’t even need to make an agreement it’s there. Right. It’s there. And if you’re putting out great content and being a leader in your thought area, then we’re going to promote your content because we want to get people the best of the best and have them coming back to please me for more. So, I mean, eventually right when we’re, we’re a little bit further down the road this year, we’ll have the self administered advertising tools. Our industry can finally advertise. Right. But we need to raise the number of members first. Right. So where you have that chicken and the egg situation too.

2 (22m 43s):
So I understand so very, very shortly, we’ll have a whole ecosystem where we can have payment processing and cryptocurrency and screw the banks and processors that try to Jack us up to sex seven, eight, 10%, you know, fees, and then sell us. We’re not going to do business with you anymore. So we’re looking to provide the technology solutions to marketing and businesses, challenge challenges, and make it easy for people. I mean, I really built it for me. Right. Like, but if I’m going to build it, then I want it to be good. Right. But really make it easy for people to take this area of their life and make sure that it is positive and not negative.

2 (23m 27s):
Right. Whether that’s because of trauma or whether that’s because of heartbreak or whether that’s because of lack of skill or, you know, whatever their hang ups and problems are around sex and sexuality, let’s get to the bottom of it. So you can get to living more pleasurable life, you know, and if you have a pleasurable life and you’re like, well, this has gotten really good. I’d like to make it better. Well then let’s give you some more tools to take it to extraordinary. You know? So that’s, that’s really what it’s meant to do. And it takes art. It takes an army for that. Absolutely.

1 (24m 0s):
So what does pleased me’s mix of users like,

2 (24m 4s):
Oh my goodness. So it’s so interesting. We love being a data comm data company. We get to learn so much about ourselves and that’s another thing I’m on it. We’re very dedicated to is creating like the Watson, the AI de identified data of sex and sexuality, right. So I came from health and wellness. You mentioned it. And I think so we, we, we treat every member like a patient, meaning like we treat it like a HIPAA situation where their information is their private information. And so anything that goes into the database goes on a number with, with, with a profile, meaning it’s a woman between the ages of 20 and 29.

2 (24m 48s):
Who’s single and her name is nowhere near it. Right? And so it’s not tied or their identity. And so we’re going to continue to collect cool and inf informational stuff. But right now, what we know is that 62% of the people on the site are women. 32% are men. That is by design. When we spend our marketing dollars and target our target user is a woman between the ages of 25 and 55 who likes dating and who’s single and who loves love, interested in love and sexuality and astrology, for example, you know, like is one per persona. And we have the ladies, same mentality.

2 (25m 28s):
If the leaders are there, the guys will come and it’s been working beautifully. We’ve never not spent one dime to get the, the guys that are on the site. And we wanted that to be that ratio because I wanted women to feel comfortable. And like, you know, if you’ve ever walked into a bar and there’s like seven guys to one girl, it’s not fun too many times, too many, too much testosterone in the room. Like, no, no, no. I’m just like just, it’s just not fun. So I wanted them to feel, you know, I always wanted to feel women heavy.

1 (26m 2s):
Hey, it can be, it can be kind of fun if you’re, if you’re a female and want free drinks.

2 (26m 8s):
Well, yeah. But how many can you drink and

1 (26m 14s):
Where are you going after that? That would be, that would be home

2 (26m 17s):
With seven guys. Apparently. Oops,

1 (26m 20s):
I is, is that one of your personas anyway? So, so how are you able to support the industry’s need for advertising in a social media setting?

2 (26m 31s):
Well, I mean, number one, we’re 21 and over right. It’s an adult social media platform. So that’s the reason why, where we’re saying we freed the nipple and you know, you can post and eventually some of the tools will allow members to rate photos. Are they X? Are they double X? So they triple X. And then if people want to put filters on their feet and saying, I don’t want to see anything that’s this or that. Right. So that people are getting what they want and not what they don’t want. That’s one thing. So, and the other thing is we don’t think there’s anything wrong with advertising, sex and sexuality. There really, there really are no laws that people are breaking.

2 (27m 14s):
Like why Facebook or Instagram or Tik TOK or Snapchat or Pinterest refuses to take our advertising dollars. That please me is beyond me. Like, it doesn’t make any sense to me. Nope. We’re not selling sex. You know, meaning we’re not, I’m not a prostitute. Not that there’s anything wrong, I’m not knocking sex work. But if this is the law we’re talking about, we’re saying we can’t do it because it’s in violation of FOS assessed to, and we’re going to go to jail. We’re going to pay fines that we’re going to get civilly sued. Right. So I’m not that. So I don’t know what the problem is there, but they all call us. It’s the end, the end, the destination URL.

1 (27m 54s):
Oh, it’s their terms and conditions, which goes for, oh, so many different businesses in mainstream that, that ban our industry. And man, it just never ends email platforms and banks. And you can just go on and on and on. So how do you, how do you appeal to people of all sexual preferences?

2 (28m 18s):
I mean, it’s really quite simple. It’s about pleasing me. You know, the, the site’s name is pleased me. Right. And we give them an analysis so that they can put in their preferences of what they like in bed. That way we have a world we can put them into. Right. Do you want to do like really very traditional and don’t really venture outside the bedroom, not interested in bringing in any, any pain for pleasure or restriction or role-play well then you’re, they’re going to be an Alara right. With other people who are also interested in those things in bed. Right? So that way, when you have a question you don’t want to use, we don’t just judge each other for having sex.

2 (29m 0s):
We kind of judge each other for the way we have sex. Somebody to say to a masochistic may say to somebody who Alara, which is technically the term they call it vanilla. The vanilla person might say, well, you’re weird. And the Triton person might say, well, you’re boring. Right.

1 (29m 16s):
You know what I mean? They all would say that, but anyway. Right. So why put the Triton

2 (29m 22s):
And the Alara in the same world that you w

1 (29m 25s):
I don’t know, it might be fun. Well,

2 (29m 28s):
Guess what? They can visit each other’s world if they want to. Right. But my point being, I wanted people to

1 (29m 35s):
Have freedom. Hey, Hey, you asked why. So that was, that was my answer.

2 (29m 40s):
It could be fun. Right. And they convince it. But yeah, we wanted people to feel free to ask the questions and not worry about people around judging, even though we’re anonymous. Sometimes we still take on some judgment when somebody says something to us. Right. It doesn’t matter what our name is. It’s we hear it. Right. And so I just, I really want people to feel safe. And then the content of course, for those were worlds is curated to be applicable to those worlds. So in a Laura, you’re not going to see any BDSM content, right. Because they may not even want to see that, that might turn them off. That may scare them. That may go, I didn’t want it. I’m not even coming on the site, if I’m going to see that kind of stuff. Right. And so, and they ha they’re entitled to that.

2 (30m 21s):
Right? It’s their sex and their sexuality, and it should be their journey and they should enjoy the however they want to. Amen. Yeah. And so that’s, that’s really how it was important to me that we could appeal to everyone. I thought, well, that would really suck if this tool is only available for some people and not all because we’re all sexual beings. So we worked really hard to figure out a way to include the inclusivity and diversity. And we want to have these conversations. I’m doing a 14 video series right now on all the areas that I feel please, me as the power to do some real good and social reform. And one of them is just, you know, violence, hate crimes and racism.

2 (31m 6s):
It’s like, you know what, it’s great about these meat. You go into a world, you’re an avatar and a screen name. You can pick any avatar. You can be an animal, you can get smiley face. You can be whatever you want. And you’re really don’t know who you’re talking to. If your friend, you know, friending people and chatting up and making comments and topic rooms, and you don’t know their color, their age, their age, you know, none of it, you just know what they have to say. Right. And so we’re getting to know one another, we’re hearing one another with that other two or three senses nullify. Oh, wouldn’t

1 (31m 37s):
It be great. Wouldn’t it be great if politics were like that?

2 (31m 43s):
You know? And so how do we, how do we, how do we end racism? I mean, one thing I think is that you just, when you finally have a friend that’s of a race that maybe you didn’t understand, or you had a preconceived notion about, and then you got to be friends with that person, then you realize how wonderful they are. And why was I so scared of that race for so long? And like, now I get mad if somebody is going to talk badly to my friend at that rate, because I have an understanding now, and I have accepted that, they’re just the same as me. And I think the more that we have that ability to identify and learn from one other, where are we going to learn from one another? If we’re segregated. I

1 (32m 21s):
Agree. I agree. And we are as Americans, we most certainly are. Unfortunately

2 (32m 30s):
Only America has more of a Mecca of, of religions than a lot of other countries.

1 (32m 36s):
Yes. Yes. Well, it’s per it’s permissive. It’s right.

2 (32m 40s):
Yeah. I mean, we have more people here, but, but we just, but we just tend to community-wise them Lincoln air, you know, like people still kind of segment inside America. Right. But we got the people there here of all different races, you know? Cause everybody wants to come to America because it’s a

1 (33m 1s):
Great country. That’s what makes the cut. That’s what makes the country great. So why is prime? I can talk. Why is privacy important for your channels and members?

2 (33m 13s):
Well, listen, we’re not having sex in the middle of a restaurant for a reason. That’s because sex is a private enterprise, right. You know, I mean, there’s people that go to sex parties and they’re into orgies and they like threesomes and foursomes and puppy pals and twosomes. And that’s wonderful and great. And I’m not judging them. I’m just saying for most people, sex is a private enterprise. It’s something that’s done between two people who have interviewed each other and tested each other out and dated. And then they’ve decided, okay, now I’m going to be intimate with this person and in many cases, right. And then they do it where no one’s looking right. There’s a reason for that. Right.

2 (33m 53s):
Because we’re taking on with all her clothes for being completely, you know, vulnerable and intimate and this and that. And so why would we go out on a public platform and start talking about that private enterprise is between me and another person, even if I’m comfortable with it. And somebody knows who my boyfriend or husband is. And I start talking about our sex on Facebook, I’m violating consent. Did he give me consent to talk about the fact that I like, let’s just say I’m just using as an example because people have fears around it. But let’s say I’m started talking about the fact that we were curious about pegging and I wanted to peg him and he let me, and now he, and I’m, and I’m making this story up, but I’m just using it as an example because people, you know, that is a real fear that guys have.

2 (34m 38s):
If somebody hears, I got pegged, they’re going to think I’m gay, which there’s nothing wrong with being gay, but in their mind, they just don’t want the wrong identity. That’s not who they are being associated with them. Right. And so if I start talking about that on Facebook, he just got violated

1 (34m 54s):
His consent. Oh boy,

2 (34m 57s):
Totally. Right. Like he didn’t, why would you say that on Facebook and everybody here? And that, that’s my, why

1 (35m 2s):
Does so many people say private things on Facebook? I know, I know, I know married couples that have private conversations on Facebook. I’m like, why,

2 (35m 12s):
Why, why? So? Right. So if you’re exploring and, or learning and, or healing and, or just entertaining yourself privately, or it should be, it means you should at least have the option for it to be privately. Correct. Because it is a private enterprise. And then number two, maybe I don’t know what I like yet because I’m exploring. And maybe I would be willing to come out, say a little bit more publicly about sex and sexuality once I know. And I’m clear that that’s how I feel and I’m not ashamed to say it. Sure. But while I’m exploring, I don’t really know how I feel.

1 (35m 50s):
Right. Right. Yeah. Especially for younger people, especially for younger people who don’t have a lot of experience. So what problems have you solved for sexual wellness and pleasure brands with your platform?

2 (36m 3s):
Social sharing is a big problem. Meaning people won’t share their content because they don’t want people to see them sharing sexual content. Sure. That’s a huge problem advertising. That’s another problem we’re solving eventually say eventually the product isn’t ready for use yet, but financial tech to process payments and save them money and fees is another problem that we’re saving. I think just the not being able to be their brand is a problem. You know, in the marketplace, they can’t even really put out the information they want and say the things in the put the images that they would prefer to use to celebrate sexuality because they get censored everywhere.

2 (36m 47s):
So we’ve, we’ve opened up in the creativity box of, Hey, write the articles you want, use the images you want. You know, and another problem we’ve solved is, you know, when, when they do advertise, if you write an article, right, it’s about a dildo and how great it is, you have the ability and please me to choose what worlds you’re posting that article to. And if I want to, I can put a different image at the head of that article for Alara that when I told you about the three vanilla and I can put a totally different image for the one, that’s either Vega, Triton or Janus, that’s more BDSM focus. So now that same piece of content actually can appeal and th the user can go, oh, I see myself there.

2 (37m 33s):
Look at that BDSM person. Let me read this sex toy. They care about BDSM people. Yeah. Right. And so it really allows marketing teams to get creative and use one piece of content and just change the imagery to match the user personas better. Nice.

1 (37m 52s):
So how many business channels have set up please? Me accounts

2 (37m 56s):
Last I checked, which was, I believe last week. It’s 425. Geez. That’s great. Yeah. Some of the big names, I mean, you know, Dame products, Laura DeCarlo lust three adult time are so many, I hate to just pull out names because there’s so many there’s broadcasters, there’s erotic writers. There’s ASM, Mar artists there’s, you know, just personal artists, people that are porn stars or cam girls. There’s just, there’s so many, I mean, there’s too many events, too many dementia, but lots of big ones.

1 (38m 34s):
That’s awesome. So who’s your, so if you had your choice, if, if you, do you have a, like a wishlist of brands and companies that aren’t there yet? All of them

2 (38m 47s):
Seriously. I mean, like really all of them, because I want our, our, our members to have a plethora, but yes, I’d love to see Esther Perel have a channel. I think she’s amazing and has such great content. We can still post her content cause she’s got a lot of free content on YouTube. So we do, because I value her thought leadership, but love to have her energy in the platform. We’ve got Dr. Ava codel and Lori handlers who are two dynamos that have been in this industry, teaching and educating on sex and sexual wellness for 30 years each. So we’ve got a lot of really great

1 (39m 24s):
Thought. Yes. But do you have Dr. Ruth?

2 (39m 30s):
Oh my God. The Playboy club in New York, right before COVID-19 happened in my friend. Robbie’s birthday party and boy, my God, she’s short. She let little pipsqueak party til 12 o’clock at night with us.

1 (39m 43s):
She’s gotta be, she’s gotta be 150 by

2 (39m 45s):
Now, 92. And she just launched a new book, lasts like eight or nine months. Yeah. Yeah.

1 (39m 54s):
Have you ever heard, you ever heard Sam Kinisons material on her? No. You ever heard Sam? I love Sam kidding. After we’re done. You need to Google Sam. Kinison Dr. Ruth, and he will you’ll fall out of your chair. Oh my God. I’m totally doing that. It’s going to be awesome. You’ll love it. So what do you hope to accomplish with policemen?

2 (40m 17s):
You know, I mean, I want to increase the world’s happiness quotient. It’s just that simple. I really feel like when sex and relationships have such a huge impact on our overall health and wellbeing. When I worked in the medical community, I was like working on the physical side, right. The cellular therapies, the nutrition, the weight loss that you know, how to live healthier, longer, better quality of life. Right. Sure, sure. What I learned really quickly was that people, no matter how healthy I got them physically, if they were emotionally unwell and or if they were, and this completely applied to my life too, if I was having negative energy coming from my relationship sector and from sex and sexuality, because I did, I was, I wasn’t, I was very repressed, sexually growing up.

2 (41m 5s):
My family was really religious and I lived in the Midwest and, you know, I had a couple early sexual traumas from the age of five on, so I didn’t buy a vibrator till I was like 36, you know, like, I didn’t know how to have an orgasm my myself until 38, you know? So it was definitely a lot of shame, a lot of unsatisfying sex, a lot of fights, a lot of two divorces to get, you know, then I was like, something’s got to give it’s to change. And the only person that could do that was me. You know what I mean? And so I really just hope that people understand the importance that this area of our life really has and how it spills over into everything else.

2 (41m 51s):
And when you realize that and take a little accountability and say, well, it’s not great, but I can make a great if I just get some information education and put some time into it, then I think we can have a more productive society. I think we can have less crime. I think we can end cycles of abuse. I think we can put a big dent in child sex trafficking. I think there’s so many different things. Gender equality, you know, racism, hate crimes. I mean, let’s, let’s get together and take the steps that we can with the man and the woman in the mirror to be contributing positively to this part of our lives in the world.

2 (42m 32s):
And that’s really how you tackle these things is you can’t force somebody to not be a racist. No, you just can’t. You can, you can, you can, you can litigate and legislate and write it and do this and do that. But you can’t change people’s hearts and as they want to change their heart, you know, so, so how do we do that? And it’s by giving them tools and access and, you know, integrating and integrating.

1 (42m 59s):
I agree. I could not agree more. Well, Heather, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

2 (43m 9s):
Thank you, Bruce. It was so much fun. I really enjoyed being here and I loved meeting you too. And I hope that you’re doing well over there in Thailand.

1 (43m 16s):
Yeah. I hope we’ll get a chance to meet in person soon.

2 (43m 20s):
I’m sure we will. My broker

0 (43m 22s):
Tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both of you have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit. If you’re going to be making payments, this has done about half the time. These days, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets, it can be put into escrow. Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow.domains for escrows. They are from out of Washington, DC. And no, they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them, trust them.

0 (44m 3s):
And I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a customer list grow. Or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of few days or an inspection period is allowed. It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period. Really depends on the weather. There is still some information you need to find out prior to the deal, closing your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this. And this is on a case by case basis.

0 (44m 44s):
Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition, or is at least available on a call basis to answer questions. This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point, you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk more about that next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Matthew Bennett, the English Leather Master. You don’t want to miss that. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Heather Montgomery. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with entrepreneur Jack Armstrong.

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1 (1m 25s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale that adult side broker, we are proud to list for sale, a network of two mainstream flirt chat sites. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and New Zealand, both are mainstream flirt, chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis. They have a loyal customer base of 27,000 plus real members with many customers still active from 2017. Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with very low overhead and a proven ROI of 900% on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing.

1 (2m 12s):
These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep of the sites requires very little time and most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 plus strong member database. Many great markets are yet on tap for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA. Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites now for only 484,000 euros. Now time for this week’s interview

2 (2m 50s):
My guest today, Anna, don’t say broker talk is Jack Armstrong of Magnum rings, Jack. Thanks for being with us today. An adult side broker

3 (2m 57s):
Talk. Well, thank you, Bruce. We’re happy to be here. It’s

2 (3m 2s):
A pleasure to have you. Jack is the founder and product developer of Magnum rings in 2008. His career in real estate was decimated by the great recession. I could only imagine I spent a lot of time searching for new career options. He’s always been fascinated with the concept of permanent penis enlargement. So he read every article report and study on the subject eventually came across the subject of body modification. And you may have heard about the African tribal people who stretched the length of their necks, or you’ve seen bodybuilders who were average Joes and ended up looking like Superman. Those in all other forms of body modification rely on the physiological processes of stressing tissue to create micro tears, which causes the body to make new cells and promote significant changes.

2 (3m 53s):
Thus came the birth of Magnum rinks, which the system employs the same science, excuse me, and is achieved through a series of exercises and stretches the role of permanent penis. Enlargement is met with a great deal of skepticism. As one can imagine this industry like any has had its chair of bad products that are long on promises. I liked that long on promises, but come up short on results. Magnum rings is an affordable, common sense approach to permanent penile enlargement, a press release from you says that over 68% of men want a bigger penis. That’s wild. Where does this desire come from?

2 (4m 34s):
And what makes men think that their penis is too small?

3 (4m 37s):
Well, Bruce, I, I some would say that the desire for a larger penis goes back to the beginning of time. More, more, more recently. I think that with, with the explosion of the internet and the porn industry that men have increasingly are looking for for ways to enlarge their penis and that the industry has grown tremendously. So I think there’s a number of factors involved and I don’t think most men think they’re necessarily too small, but they, they like the idea of being well in doubt. Sure, sure,

2 (5m 16s):
Sure. I mean, it started with John Holmes and oh God, what was that guy Al long duck? Oh no. I was thinking of that. I was thinking of the movie 16 candles, long, long, long dong silver. That’s it long dong silver. Oh my God, that guy, that guy was just fricking huge. Yeah. You look at him and everybody’s got a small penis. So how did you get the idea to deal with the topic of penis enlargement and how did you finally come up with the idea for Magnum rings?

3 (5m 48s):
Well, as, as you mentioned in the intro there, that the, really my research on body modification led me to lead me to Magnum rings that the process of stressing tissue to create micro tears, which then the body naturally heals through the physiological process of, of hypertrophy and hyperplasia to heal, heal the micro tears. And so it’s a unique approach approach. I, I don’t think anyone else had had specifically taken this, this angle on it. And that’s, that’s how we ended up with a, basically a process that allows the user to create, create high tension overload in the penis by, by forcing blood into the penis to create the necessary micro tears.

2 (6m 46s):
Yeah. It’s, I mean, obviously it makes a ton of sense because everything in the body I think is able to do that. I mean, I think of the times that I’ve spent at the gym and, you know, I think everyone pretty much knows that what you’re doing is you’re tearing down your muscles and then your muscles build up. That’s why you don’t work the same muscle group two days in a row, which I’m sure you’re probably telling people not to do this two days in a row. So it’s, it’s kind of the same concept,

3 (7m 15s):
Right? It is by all means. And it’s, you know, there’s a process and, and we, we tell men that, you know, it takes time and, and not to expect overnight results. And that indeed it is important to follow our instructions that include using Magnum rings in the system every other day for about 15 minutes and, and allowing those off days to allow for the, for the tissue to heal. Right. It brings up the question of, of, you know, what, what sort of pain might be associated with it.

3 (7m 55s):
And I’m happy to say there’s really only some white bruising that comes with the American Marines when that’ll, that goes away within that 24 hour period. And you’re, you’re good to go on the, the following day. Yeah. You’re ready

2 (8m 14s):
For action as the case may be.

3 (8m 17s):
Exactly. Exactly. And we, we, of course always mentioned to people that you don’t want to overdo it, that safety does come first and that if you feel any sharper pains you want to discontinue use right away until that goes away. And it’s, it’s, it’s never a bad idea to talk to a medical professional beforehand, just to see if, see if this system suits you.

2 (8m 48s):
Yeah. And that brings up my question. I mean, obviously your penis is a pretty sensitive part in the area that is sensitive of, of a man’s physiology. How

3 (9m 2s):
Safe is it? We have never had reports of anyone being, having any, any damage done. I think that that’s great because our system is it’s, you’re creating the high tech tension overload by using our patented system of pressing on the scrotum area is so it’s a, it’s an internal forcing of the blood into the penis chambers. And so unlike penis, maybe penis pumps or traction devices, which I’ve never really used, but they did it in my mind.

3 (9m 42s):
They, they tend to be a little more radical because they’re introducing it an outside force acronym or insure it’s an internal surge of blood, which I think helps, helps with the introduction and the safety of the product. Okay.

2 (10m 3s):
Now I think you kind of answered part of this. Okay. How often should it be used and what results can be?

3 (10m 12s):
Well, we recommend usage for at least starting out 15 minutes every other day. And that can be changed to daily use once you, once your body is acclimated to it. And you’re you have learned the system. Yes. And the gain is, of course, everyone is different. We’re happy to say that gains are coming both length and girth. And you know, I personally I’ve been using Magnum Marines for about three years and our gains, I would say, have been about 50%.

3 (10m 55s):
That’s crazy. 50%, correct.

2 (10m 59s):
My goodness gracious. That’s better than plastic surgery.

3 (11m 3s):
Well, and a whole lot less expensive too.

2 (11m 6s):
Yeah. And less painful. I, now, now we were talking about every other day, but you said eventually someone can use it every day. How’s that when you’re, when you’re creating tears, don’t you need to give it the additional day to recover.

3 (11m 23s):
Well, Bruce, I mean, it’s, I think it certainly depends on the user and we never want to encourage anyone to overdo it or take it further than what their body tells them is. Right. But once, once you build that muscle and you’ve, you’ve the, that the tissue is acclimated to that, that certain blood, my personal experience has been much less transformation on the, on the tissue itself. And

2 (11m 59s):
One thing you said, pushing on the scrotum, you’re not talking about like squeezing your balls, are

3 (12m 5s):
You, well, it’s not so much a squeezing of the balls, but it’s pressing, pressing the scrotum into the upper thigh area. And the, the key to the whole system is creating that surge, aiding that surge into the penile chambers. So it’s, it’s not a, it’s not an actual squeezing when it’s more of a pressing of the skirt America. Mm.

2 (12m 34s):
Okay. Not squeezing, but pressing. Okay. All right. All right. I’ll take your word for it. Anything down there, I’m always like, Hmm. Okay. Now there are several other products that also aim to achieve permanent growth of the penis. What are the advantages of your product compared to other products?

3 (12m 57s):
Well, th th there certainly are a number of differences. You’ve, you know, many people, when they first see the Magnum range, they confuse it with a soft cock ring, which the, the cock ring of course, is more intended to constrict blood into the penis. We’re with Magnum rings, excuse me, which magma rings. It’s our, our system slows the flow of blood from leaving the penis back into the body. The most commonly are, I guess, the devices you see out there, or the extenders or traction devices, and those, those require a much, a much longer commitment of, of wearing the things for about six hours a day and

2 (13m 48s):
Hours a day, where the hell has time for that. Well,

3 (13m 53s):
I have never tried one myself. I couldn’t imagine, but I guess they, they try to make them small enough where they’re not visible through your pants or something, but they, they, these traction devices are more working on length. You really can’t add yours with that sort of device. And, you know, even like, even the inexpensive ones are a couple hundred dollars. So the Magnum rank system is 39 95 foot, basically $40 for the system. And it’s, I think is much more effective than, than the traction devices.

3 (14m 37s):
And then you have, of course, the penis pumps, which will draw blood into the penis, which will give a temporary sense of enlargement, but it I’ve never heard. And they weren’t. Other than the manufacturer say that there’s permanent gains. Yeah.

2 (14m 54s):
Yeah. I’d say it’s, it sounds like you’re just more the real deal. And there’s this kind of like, well, yeah, the flat,

3 (15m 3s):
I’m not, I’m not here to bad mouth other systems. I just think we offer an alternative. That’s not only much less expensive, but, and in my mind is, is very effective and, and should be considered if this, if penis argument is something that a man is, how did you come

2 (15m 25s):
Up with this concept? I mean, it’s so revolutionary. What, what made you, what made you, I mean, how’d, you, how’d you come up with this

3 (15m 36s):
Idea is, as you mentioned in the intro that I had a lot of free time during the great recession and the subject had always been of interest to him. I, I was the, one of the, one of the ones who bought into insight, which was back in the 1990s. You may remember smiling, Bob was their, their character, but, you know, I, I, I believe that every, every problem has a solution. So I really dove into this and read every article and researched it as far as I could. And, and as you mentioned, came up with this with the concept of body modification, which of course leads to, to creating natural stress, to, to form the micro tears and stimulate cell growth through the hyperplasia.

3 (16m 35s):
Now

2 (16m 35s):
You’re, you’re only charging $40, which kind of stunned me because I’m thinking to myself, well, you got the answer to a problem that as you said, you know, the majority, the vast majority of men would like solved.

3 (16m 51s):
Why aren’t you charging more? You know, we’re relatively new into the market. And of course, there’s so much skepticism that surrounds the whole, whole process of penis enlargement that w we feel we needed to be at a price point that would say, men would say, well, you know, this sounds novel. Let’s maybe I’ll give it a try. And it’s a lot easier to hand over $40 than a two or 300 or for some of our alternative systems. Yeah, sure. So it’s a, and plus, I mean, it’s, it’s our device devices relatively inexpensive to make it’s a latex medical tubing.

3 (17m 39s):
We cord lock to adjust it. And I think the biggest part of the system besides the rings themselves is actually the, the, and the, and the patented part of our system, which is, is really the key to it. The Magnum rings ourselves selves. They’re an important component, but they’re, they’re almost like the, if you’re using the comparison with a weightlifter where we’re the weights that the user will have to, to create that necessary stress. Yeah,

2 (18m 16s):
No, no, no doubt about it. Well, Hey, high profit margin never stopped anybody before. Indeed. How are you finding this industry to be in, by the way, I mean, you come from the world of real estate, which is obviously way different than I have a lot of friends who do real estate in California, where I’m from. In fact, my wife does it here. How,

3 (18m 40s):
How have you found the industry? Well, you know, it’s, it’s interesting. The, I have found the people most critical of the whole Magnum rings idea are people that are within the industry are our direct competitors. Of course, they will poop to it and say, you know, oh God, how, how, how can you expect, you can create any sort of, some significant gains with this, with this tool. And it’s, so it’s been unlike real estate where we have a environment of cooperation and working together. I have found the industry to be pretty difficult to navigate and thanks to some consultants I’ve worked with and cook and including our friend, Jason he’s, he’s helped me kind of avoid some of the landmark lines and know, again, our growth has been slow.

3 (19m 37s):
I wish we would have taken off from day one, but we, we believe in our product that we know, we know that once enough people are, are exposed to it, that w we, we think it’ll, we think we have a very bright future. Sure.

2 (19m 53s):
And the interstate, the internet side of our industry is a lot nicer by the way, just to let you know, I don’t know if you’ve been being able to go out to shows or anything yet. I know in the last year nobody’s had any shows, but I think you’re gonna find the, a you’re going to find our, our, our side of the industry to be much nicer and much more cooperative. And we do work together. That’s a, that’s a big difference. So some where it’s a lot like real estate. So tell us about your money back guarantee.

3 (20m 22s):
We really feel it’s important to stand behind our product. And so we offer a no questions, asked, guaranteed that if you don’t see results that you like within four to six weeks, just return the product to us. And we’ll refund refund, the total cost, excluding postage. And I can add there. Bruce said in the, in the three years we’ve been working on Magnum rings, that the number of returns I can count on one hand.

2 (20m 58s):
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So you, weren’t you, when you did that work, you kind of worried that people would use the product, take advantage of it and then send it back.

3 (21m 7s):
That’s always a concern, and this is my first experience in any sort of retail online type business. Sure. But now that, that has not been the case. And, and we are, it gives us a lot of reassurance that we’re on the right. Yeah, absolutely.

2 (21m 25s):
And you know, another thing that I think comes into play here that I think when you develop a product and then use the product and see the kind of success you’ve had yourself with the product, it’s very easy for you to go out there and show conviction in it. Isn’t that

3 (21m 44s):
True? Oh, by all means is as a person in sales, you’ve got to believe in your product. And it’s again, it’s, I get a lot of positive feedback from, from past customers. We have a number that have reordered the second time around, though, if you use Magnum rings, as they’re intended, they really should last you for, for quite some time that a reordering is not something that you should, should need to do anytime soon.

2 (22m 17s):
Okay. Now, which sales channels are you offering your products on so far?

3 (22m 22s):
Well, as I mentioned at this point, most of our sales have been online through our website@magnamarines.com. We also have a, a number of affiliates and reviewers that are out there where we have reviews on supplement, critique.com and supplement police.com and size development.com. And some of those are affiliates. Some others like supplement police stated they are not an affiliate marketer. They’re just a third-party voice for the industry out there. So we’ve had great exposure through those.

3 (23m 5s):
Those, you know,

2 (23m 8s):
You said the response has been really good. Maybe you can, maybe you can give us a little more information on that.

3 (23m 14s):
Well, I think that overall people are first surprised at the low cost of the product, but they, they have said that, you know, it’s fun to use. It’s some have used it as a, a sex enhancer, which it’s really not necessarily intended for that, but they are using it on, on some occasions as almost a cock ring, rather than that enhancement system that it is. But, you know, we pride ourselves in customer service and being there to answer questions for, for customers on, on the system and how it works.

3 (23m 57s):
And we also, we stress that safety comes first and it’s important in something like that, where you’re doing body modification, that, that you listen to your body and, and we’re there to help along the way, as far as what, where people have had success and maybe where people have had challenges using the system

2 (24m 23s):
With your, with your resellers. Okay. What kind of feedback have you gotten

3 (24m 29s):
From them? Well, it, it, you know, it really depends on how, how much they’ve been promoting the side. I’d say that most, most of them have not actually tried the system themselves. They’ve if they’re reselling our product, they generally are selling 15 or 20 other products. And so I can’t speak to really too much feedback other than, than they, they considered a very novel approach and that they’re happy to introduce their client base to it. I mean, don’t

2 (25m 6s):
You don’t, you agree with me that unless you tried something, it really becomes hard to say,

3 (25m 15s):
Yeah, I would, by all means. And I, I th I think it’s important that not only the people try it, but that they are committed to the system because it’s something like penis enlargement, it is a journey and it takes time. And it though, you’re going to start seeing results, and we say, four weeks, six weeks for significant growth. You, you really have to stay with it. And I, I follow up with a lot of our customers just to see how it’s going and how they’re enjoying the Magnum rings. And you’d be surprised a lot of them say, oh, I, I did it for a month.

3 (25m 55s):
And then I lost interest and I put them in a drawer and I haven’t tried them in the last six months. So again, it takes a degree of commitment to work in working the process. And I’m not sure that resellers, you know, their, their interest is in obviously turning knees and, and making a profit. And they may not be so interested in actual permanent enlargement.

2 (26m 22s):
What kind of a, what kind of education do you give your registration?

3 (26m 27s):
Well, we have a very detailed instruction manual that comes with Magnum range. And so it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a pretty simple process and the, the exercises and the routines are pretty straightforward. So we, we give them every detail as much as we can to make sure that they’re getting off on the right foot and getting the most out of their workouts. Okay.

2 (26m 57s):
Okay. But I mean, in terms of the people that are selling it, do they get any extra training?

3 (27m 2s):
No, they really don’t. It’s, you know, we’re there to offer any training that they may need, but it’s, and it’s a, it’s a pretty, it’s a pretty straightforward and simple process. You’re, you know, you’re pressing on your scrotum and forcing blood into the penis. And once they get the, once they get the field down of what they’re doing and, and how, how, how it’s working. I think that it’s pretty much self-explanatory.

2 (27m 29s):
Would it help if you did like a, like an animated video, you might want to talk to Jason about that? I’m sure. I’m sure it’s crossed his mind. Those, those were Curry. Well, I think, I think an actual video for them, for a product like this might be just a little bit, you know, but, but I think animated would be kind of fun.

3 (27m 48s):
Yeah. And we’ve had a number of customers suggest that and bringing up, bringing it up here might just be the impetus to get us going forward with them.

2 (27m 59s):
I’ve been in marketing my whole life, my friends. So I, I get these ideas. I can’t, I can’t turn it off, man. I just can’t turn it off. Now. I understand you’re looking for distributors, especially in Europe. What kind of criteria are you using to pick distributors?

3 (28m 19s):
Well, you know, at this point, we’re, we’re excited about the worldwide market. Many of our, probably about 10% of our orders come from overseas. And the majority of those of course are Europe and Australia, and we’re, we’re there to, to help help any retailers or distributors that would like to include magnet Marines in their product line. As, as far as our criteria is, is that we’re, we want to make sure that, that the retailers have, have as much information as they need to make a decision.

3 (28m 59s):
And we’re, we’re of course, offering, offering samples to, to send out to anyone. Who’s interested that my, my life to give it a try and, and make a decision, their informed decision on, on their own is

2 (29m 14s):
Your, is your site by the way, translated into like Japanese

3 (29m 18s):
And Chinese? No, it is not. I think there are certainly platforms that will do that for, for the user, but we D we did not specifically have, have a site geared to different, different languages. Region’s

2 (29m 33s):
A huge market, especially for people who want to have larger penises, because the penis sizes of the Asian tend to be very small and yeah. And the Asia is just an incredible market. So another thing to give some thought to, in fact, when we, when we’re offline, I’ll talk to you about something, what demands do you make on your distribution partners?

3 (29m 59s):
Well, we, we really try to make it as simple as possible for them, again, understanding it’s a new product and a very novel approach. We, we don’t, we try not to put a lot of demands on it, but in order to make it cost effective, we have a minimum order size of 10 units. And that’s not, it that’s not asking much now, now, and it’s, you know, the price, the price is it’s a scaled pricing and dependent on the number of units and anyone can contact us to, if they’d like to discuss that further.

3 (30m 39s):
Okay.

2 (30m 41s):
How do you support your distributors?

3 (30m 45s):
Well, there’s a, as I mentioned, Bruce, we have a very nice professional packaging, as well as our instruction manual. And so those are really, I think, helpful for, for retailers and distributors. Our website is very informative and@magnumrings.com is very informative and gives a lot of the history and, and practical techniques and use of Magnum rings. And we’re, we’re looking at point of sale type programs and materials, but those are still in development until we expand our, our, our distribution network more.

3 (31m 30s):
Okay.

2 (31m 31s):
What expectations do you have of the European

3 (31m 34s):
Market? Well, you know, as I mentioned, we’re, we’re very excited about it. We have about 10% of our sales are overseas. And I think what’s really holding us back is, is of course not the not having as much exposure as we would like. And then of course, that $20 charge that we, that we put on for, for shipping overseas, we do a flat rate, $20 charge that of course brings that brings that costs from around $40 up to $60. We think if we can eliminate w with distributors, if we can eliminate that shipping charge and with distributors around the world, I think that will further enhance the, the viability and the, the, the, the pricing on Magnum room.

3 (32m 26s):
Hey,

2 (32m 26s):
Most, most us products, if it’s $40 in the U S it’s 40 euros in Europe. So that’s another thing you might want to give some guy, some thought, dude, they’re just used to paying it now, do you intend to expand your product range and is Magnum rings going to be available in other versions,

3 (32m 45s):
Bruce, you know, we’re all as a brand, we’re always looking for different options, but at this point we were focused on our bread and butter and our primary product being the Magnum ring system, and we’ll see, see what the future brings.

2 (33m 2s):
Okay. But I mean, as anybody in the laboratory right now looking at different versions,

3 (33m 8s):
No, I can’t say there is. I think we’re happy with the version that we have right now. And we’re, we’re always open to suggestions and improvements, but we think we, we think we have a winner.

2 (33m 22s):
It sounds like it well, Jack, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again, down the road.

1 (33m 31s):
Broker tip today is part five of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about how to determine the value of a website, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement, what should be in it? Well, your attorney will guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint, what is the date you’d like to close?

2 (33m 58s):
Make sure you know, that you’ll have the money to either

1 (34m 0s):
Pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date. I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. In fact, I’m going through some of those right now with a couple of my deals, make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records, including 2, 2, 5, 7 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites. Of course, it should spell out any payment schedule. If there is one who is responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow, and there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller’s situation, this assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement.

1 (34m 49s):
If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your legal representative so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Heather Montgomery of please me.

0 (35m 9s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Jack Armstrong. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry attorney Nick Zargarpour.

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1 (1m 23s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at adult side broker, we are offering a rapidly growing hair, shaving site. This site shows women getting their heads shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it is much easier to promote than other adult sites. The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they are getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site that is a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation.

1 (2m 4s):
It handles the billing and rebilling user information and video displays. There is also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales. The first month alone, there is no paid advertising that go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos and social media. The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. The site has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars.

1 (2m 47s):
There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guess today on adult site, broker talk is Nick czar, Gar poor Nick. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk, Hey, glad to be with you guys. It is a pleasure. Now Nick is a California attorney that has over 20 years of legal experience. He started when he was 12 in business and business litigation and over 35 years of experience starting and running successful small businesses. I think he ran his first business when he was three, actually, anyway, he handles clients and various legal aspects of the adult industry and brings a wealth of knowledge about both the operation and legal aspects of the business.

1 (3m 37s):
In addition to being a trial lawyer, Nick is also a professor teaching business plan, writing UCLA extension, Nick. How, and when did you get involved in doing legal work for the adult industry?

2 (3m 51s):
But seven years ago, I got approached by one of my clients that runs a strip club and he wanted to invest in adult industry and he wanted me to review and can negotiate some contracts for him. And I negotiated and we wrote up the contracts and he invested with a company and it was, I guess, more profitable at the beginning than it is later, but overall he was happy with it and it was just something for him to basically dabble it. Once I started doing business with them, with, with him and the other side, the other side decided they liked the way I did things and they started hiring me.

2 (4m 33s):
And then I got into the adult in the streets slowly but surely I would say probably about, oh, I say four or five years ago, I went to the Phoenix forum. Oh man. It is a good show. It is a good show. It

1 (4m 50s):
Was a good show. Yeah. Yeah. And that was very relaxing. And that was your first show.

2 (4m 56s):
That was the first show. Yeah, I did the Phoenix forum and then experts. I went to one AVN and I’ll be honest with you because for me it’s a business, a business thing. Yes. ABN was, it was a wonderful sitting at the Dunkin donuts and working. That’s pretty much what I did Saturday, the build up, but most of the time and worked, I

1 (5m 18s):
Think everybody can picture that, that spot and people with their laptops. There’s no two ways about it. Hey, I gotta ask you. So, so being a mainstream business guy and an attorney, what was your impression the first time you went to an adult expo?

2 (5m 36s):
First time I went to an adult expo. In what respect, like a first time I went, I went when I was like 21. I went to AVN.

1 (5m 46s):
No, no, no, no. I’m talking, I’m talking about as a business person.

2 (5m 49s):
Yeah. My first impression of the people at the Phoenix forum and other adults industry shows the business, the business ones is that they are wonderful people. The people are accepting of all kinds of, you know, different people, something that you don’t see that like, for example, I go to legal conferences too. And if someone shows up with orange hair, you know, something, they would be treated as a pariah at a legal conference. Maybe not overtly, but maybe, you know, just subconsciously they would do that. But when you go to the adult expo, everyone was adults, you know, business, a business, you know, no matter who you were, no matter what you did, no matter how many tattoos you have, what color hair you had or no hair at all, people treated you as one of their own in a very accepting.

2 (6m 36s):
And I really enjoyed that.

1 (6m 38s):
So when did you stop dyeing your hair? Orange? Well

2 (6m 45s):
Told me, I guess, would be the first jury trial I would ever have to go forces you to not, well, I know I didn’t have, I’ve never had one.

1 (6m 57s):
I know. I know that was a little, that was a little joke. Very little. I can, I can only muster so much early in the morning. So how do you like working with people in adult? You kind of answered this a little bit at the trade shows, but how do you like working with people and adult versus people in the rest of the business community?

2 (7m 18s):
Well, we get the same issues with the adults, people working in adult, as opposed to the ones that don’t work in adult. I get a lot of people that just think the handshake is good enough or what they were promised. Right, right, right. Or word of God and everything is good and Dory, and we can just go forward and without having to take any kind of, you know, you know, assurances that what we were promised or what you were promised is going to be actually delivered to you. Correct. Yeah. You know, and you get the same thing adult, maybe a little more.

1 (7m 57s):
Well, I think it’s, I think it’s a lot more, but I don’t know.

2 (8m 1s):
No, it’s a little more because, because I do get so many of my other clients that still, you know, just a non adult industry, that’s still believing that some of them are old school. Like I’ve got a gentleman in his eighties that still does deal by shaking hands. He does everything he’s supposed to, not everyone does that. And I kept telling him the, the deal that nowadays, when you shake hands with someone, you count your fingers to make sure they’re all there. And so is your ring. You make sure they didn’t.

1 (8m 31s):
Well, you should tell him that. As long as he’s shaking hands with somebody in his own age range, he’s probably in fairly good shape. That’s a little joke. But any anyone else forget about it? What type of legal work do you do in the industry?

2 (8m 47s):
Oh, we do all kinds. I mean, tell them, we do the negotiations on the large contracts. You know, when companies want to do deals with each other, you know, exchange of, of products we do in forcement, when there’s copyright violations, when someone took, you know, we have a case right now that a mainstream individual used copyrighted information videos from one of our clients. And they’re trying to say that, no, it’s fair use. And we’re saying, no, it’s not fair use anyways. That’s one of the things that we do now. It ranges. Now it goes from the biggest deals with the business to business aspect too.

2 (9m 30s):
I’ve had, you know, then we go to the other spectrum, the other end of the spectrum, where I represented two adult industry individuals living together whose neighbor was complaining about them having sex and too loud. And, and the landlord wanted to the victim. And I basically you’ve stepped in and said, no, no, no, no, no, you, you, you just basically this neighbor’s got it out for them because this neighbor is found out that aren’t my clients, aren’t adults. And therefore we are not going to put up that, you know, and you can’t do that in your you’re the victim. You try to evict them. I will go in there and I will basically put a full court press on you.

2 (10m 14s):
And of course we never heard anything after that. Wow. But again, it ranges, like what we do is we negotiate the contracts. We enforce the contracts. If we have to go to trial, we go to Trop. I’ve even had appeals. The issue is I had, when I was growing up, I worked for a family business. And in the family business, I found out when I had it as early as like 21, 22, I had a, I had a lawyer for the family business. It was a transactional attorney. I found out that a transactional attorney will do anything to settle the case, even at the disadvantage of you, the client, because he wants to avoid litigation.

2 (10m 59s):
Whereas I said to myself, well, I don’t want to be that kind of an attorney. So I negotiate. And because I’ve got the business background, because I used to be a consumer of legal services before I became the provider of legal services. I used to know what I hated about my lawyers and what my lawyers did in the family business. And I go out of my way not to do that. For example, they used to leave me voicemails, Hey Nick, this is Bob, blah, blah, blah. About, you know, this matter, blah, blah, blah. You know, please call me back. And there was a 0.1 on my bill.

1 (11m 36s):
Can you hear me, Bruce? Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy. That’s crazy. That’s crazy.

2 (11m 40s):
No, that we’ll do that 0.1 on my bill and I would have to argue. So I, I do not do anything like that. Most of the time my clients call me up and ask a quick question. I don’t even put it in the, in the computer. And if I have to put up think it, if I have to read documents and stuff like that, absolutely know it has to be built for, because I’m not Amazon. I don’t have boxes shipping out the door while I’m sitting there talking with you.

1 (12m 4s):
You don’t work. You don’t work for free nor should you.

2 (12m 7s):
Oh no, no one. Yeah. That’s why. Yeah. My time is basically my inventory and, and because of that, so I have to charge for it. But if it’s like someone that calls me up and asked a quick question, it’s a good client. You know, if someone has worked with me before someone has, you know, referred to me, when people tell me all of these things, I basically, you know, go out of my way to help them as much as possible. And, and if I know the answers, I give the answer. If I don’t know the answers, I try to get their answers or refer them to an attorney that does, I don’t refer, usually refer people to attorneys that I don’t know. Well, yeah, because I gotta be able to have the, that person’s cell phone and pick up the phone and say, Hey look, Larry, the person I referred to you is done happy with your services.

2 (12m 58s):
You’re not calling him back fast enough, calling her back fast enough. You better call the back line. And you’d be surprised. You know, that really is the biggest problem with attorneys is that they don’t return phone calls or emails.

1 (13m 15s):
I got it. I got a great story about billing. I, when I was doing my mom’s, I can’t even think of that or trust. We did the, sometimes the words don’t come early in the morning when I was doing her trust, I used an attorney and I was in an office building and we were on the fifth floor and two floors down, literally between a walk and an elevator ride about a minute, okay. Was this attorney? And so they delivered the documents to me.

1 (13m 55s):
And I got a bill for an hour who are delivering documents for delivery documents up to levels, taking an elevator. I hope you disputed that. I think, of course I did. I said, I’m not paying, I’m not paying that. Oh yeah. That’s the thing. That’s, that’s kind of the old school attorney way. And I say old school because some are still doing it. Okay. But that, to me, that’s just crime. It is. Yeah. I had

2 (14m 29s):
A, I have a client right now and a very interesting case, which is like for law, you know, it’s got sex appeal, it’s got money, it’s got everything. And in that situation, there was an attorney that this person had hired in a family law matter. And the lawyer is a famous LA divorce attorney and she’s this and she’s that. And she’s know this famous person’s attorney and that famous person’s attorney and all this other, you know, the bonafide, she would charge my client eight hours of attorney work for making a one hour appearance. And that is highly unethical.

2 (15m 11s):
And I told my, I told my client, you got to put your foot down as far as this family attorney. And by the way, one of the other things is I get people that say, oh, I went with, you know, Tom, blah, blah, blah, or Larry, blah, blah, blah. And he is, you know, this famous person’s attorney at that point and this person’s attorney and I’m thinking to myself, yeah. But the problem there you have is you are not famous,

1 (15m 40s):
Very famous. They want to be famous. So they figure if they, if they take on this person’s attorney, that that makes them famous.

2 (15m 48s):
Well, yeah. Some, some people maybe in the talent plan, you may think that’s funny, but, but no, I, I didn’t think about that aspect of it, but, but the problem is you’re not famous. You just become a cash cow to them. Of course, you know, you just become something for them that you’re secondary because your name is not on TMZ every week. Okay. Their name is, and therefore this cash, you’re just a cash cow for them. And they don’t give you the service. And you usually get relegated to some associate that you’ve never even heard of after first or second meeting or a legal assistant or a legal assistant that doesn’t even know what they’re talking about. And this is like one of the biggest issues I have with all of these big advertising law firms, you know, like all the big ones that are billboards and stuff like that.

2 (16m 34s):
Every time I’ve had someone come to me from one of their accounts and I don’t handle personal injury or any of that stuff. But you know, you always hear about the stories and the stories are, oh yeah. I talked with your attorney once. And then the rest of the time, it was just some paralegal that I was talking to. Which again, no, I just don’t run my practice that way. I, I still answer the phone myself, even though I, we have a staff of three, still do everything myself. There’s just no reason to do this. If I’m as an attorney, I can’t get off a phone call. I don’t want to be on, I don’t deserve to be an attorney.

1 (17m 9s):
I, I agree wholeheartedly. I, for, for attorneys like the ones you described, like, I’ll use the same saying that here in Thailand, they use for some of the, some of the work and girls that, that send their, their customers emails all the time saying that they need money. Yeah. We call the customers ATM machines. So, and they’re, they’re pretty much on the same level too. So what are some of the basic legal things business people need to do? Or

2 (17m 43s):
One of the things I’m finding out, and I give this as part of my class and it’s, I’ve given some lectures about this. It’s like basically the 10 things you need to know about contracts. I’m not going to go through all 10 of them right now. But one of the things that you really need, need to do is make sure you’re getting something. Yeah. I’m surprised how many contracts I read, where you’re supposed to do a, B, C, and the other side has some kind of an amorphous, you know, thing that they’re supposed to do. Something that’s not, you know, you know, written out something that’s not clear.

2 (18m 26s):
And sometimes when it’s clear, there is no date to it. You know, they can, they can literally sit on there and sit on it and not do something. You know, if they’re supposed to do it, you’ve done your part. Right. They’re supposed to do it. They say, well, I’ll get to it two months from now, nothing in the contract says that I have to do

1 (18m 47s):
Now. Yup. Yup. So

2 (18m 49s):
That’s one of the issues, right? The issues that I find a lot in contracts, second of all, though, there’s not even a contract, you know? And there’s just basically, like I said, you’d say something, the other person says something. If it’s something that is important to you, and of course it’s important to you because guess what? You are negotiating this with someone you are asking them to do it. Yup. Get it in writing. Yep. If it’s an exchange of emails and then the person asked him, if you, your understanding is the same, please, please say yes. Or tell me where I’m

1 (19m 29s):
Wrong. Yeah. In a reply email that could be used in court

2 (19m 35s):
Guess necessarily in court. It’s just clarifies everything for everyone. Like my business people. My, my more, let’s say, we’re talking to see the problem is we’re talking. I don’t know who we’re talking about right now. Are we talking about a brand new, just someone working out it, our home, you know, doing some work or something. One that is a more established business or someone that’s a super big business and they get something. If someone is supposed to do something for you, you get it in writing. They’re supposed to do it by this day. They’re what they’re supposed to do. Exactly. What’s the quality of what they’re supposed to do. And when are they supposed to do it by?

2 (20m 16s):
And if you’re a bigger company, this is good for you for you because now you can let your staff know, Hey, listen, you know, Larry is supposed to do this despite this date. And this is what we wrote, and this is what we’re supposed to do by this date. So it makes it easier for you as a manager, just do this and I’ll do that. And, and, and this way your staff knows it, you know it, and everyone else can basically work and row at the same pace towards the same goal. Sure. Okay. Sure. That’s very important to get in writing and, and people, you know, I just so many times there’s not a wing and a prayer, and sometimes they’re afraid to get this that, you know, it’s not just intentional.

2 (21m 1s):
They just don’t want to rock the boat.

1 (21m 3s):
Yeah, I get it. I get it. No, I, I I’ve been there. I completely understand. He

2 (21m 9s):
Promised me this and I don’t want to, you don’t want to be spending a month of your time working or more, less than, and not getting something done. Okay. And one at a time you were done by the time you’re done the other person isn’t performing or hasn’t done anything. Right. So you expect them to do it otherwise. Why waste your time? Your time is your money. You

1 (21m 37s):
Know, I, I can’t tell you how many agreements that I see. And I look at, and I I’m one of the few people you’ll find that actually reads something before they sign it. Okay. If it’s really complex, I’ll get it reviewed, you know, by, by an attorney. But most things I can handle, I have a pretty decent legal mind. I mean, I’m not an attorney, but I did stay at a holiday Inn express last night, but yeah, exactly. But I find that there are so many that are one sided or have language in it that I find unacceptable. And I go, no, I’m not going to do that.

1 (22m 19s):
And so, you know, I go, this has got to come out. This has got to come out. This has got to come out. This has got to come out. So let me ask you a question. When you’re writing an agreement, what, what philosophy do you put into writing one for your clients? So it will be acceptable and fair to the other side. You

2 (22m 39s):
Want to be successful. You have gotta make sure it’s, win-win my job. And that’s part of what I bring to the table. That other attorneys, I feel that don’t bring to the table because I can’t come from a family business background. I come from the business background, like I said, I was a consumer of legal services. Before I became a provider of legal services. I had lawyers that would come in there and destroy deals that go out of their way to ruin something. But my goal is to, you know, the first thing, one of the things I do in my program that I have for my accounting program is it says goals.

2 (23m 23s):
And I write my client’s goals in there. And that’s something that I refer to all the time. And when we’re dealing with contracts, when we’re dealing with litigation, when all of this stuff is being handled, we go from these goals. We follow these goals. We say, this is what they wanted. The ultimate goal is this. So how can I make sure that this is, this is achieved. This goal is achieved without ruining it. Now, let me tell you something. Ruth I’ve had situations where I told my client, this has happened about once every couple of years, it happens. I’d say to my client, the day you’re going to go sign this contract, not the one I negotiated, but the one that was put in front of them, I will come to your office and I’ll break every knuckle in your hand, just so you wouldn’t sign this thing.

2 (24m 11s):
And I’ve said that to clients, that I’m going to come over and break your knuckle, just so you can’t sign it because it is that bad because I see stuff in there.

1 (24m 21s):
Wait a minute of my time I talk, am, am I talking to Nick or Michael cone? This is my own client. I know. I know. I know.

2 (24m 32s):
Yeah. So, but this is my own client. I tell my client and I say, look, this is why this means this. That means this. You know, these are all things. Here’s a perfect example. Now this one is, and let me tell you something. First of all, one thing that people have to understand is this is very important. No one ever came into my office and said, Mick, I knew he was a scum sucking dirt bag. That’s why I went into business with him. Okay. It’s always, oh, he was my best friend. Oh, we were neighbors for 20 years.

2 (25m 12s):
Oh, we’ve known each other in the industry forever. All of these things, no one ever came up to me and said, I knew because the devil doesn’t wear, you know, horns and red, and it’s got a little, you know, an arrow for a tail walking around, you know, talking, wearing a suit, talking to you. Okay. The devil comes off as being the angel as being friendly. So you gotta be careful about that. And another red flag is when they hold something way too big over your, over your head, you know, like perfect example, non adult industry. I have a client who started a business by herself about let’s see what, the time we were negotiating.

2 (25m 57s):
This thing was about four years ago, we got four years. She gets approached by a company that is a startup that has $80 million in backing. And they want to buy her business for $4 million. So by all standards, a very successful business, you know, that she’s running. And the way they were paying was they were paying a lot above the, the earnings and they were paying way above and they were piping everything. So the doll of the pot of gold, the $4 million. Okay. And there were paying what all parameters, like if you did a business analysis, you would say businesses worth maybe a couple of million, but 4 million is definitely double that we get this contract from New York attorney.

2 (26m 44s):
Yeah. New York attorneys. Just love to write complicated agreements. This love writing,

1 (26m 52s):
Not just New York ones, but go ahead.

2 (26m 54s):
<inaudible> bad. Yeah. I had a lease agreement for a small restaurant that was 99 pages. How can you write a 99 page lease for a restaurant? It’s just insane. But this attorney had written for a $4 million con contract, you know, Paul, you buy, let’s say 60 pages over two separate contracts.

1 (27m 17s):
That’s not.

2 (27m 18s):
Yeah. Well it’s 60 pages is okay. Actually my record is 152 page letter. Yeah. But,

1 (27m 23s):
But I mean, for a, for a buy sell, what the hell could be, ah, funny, you should ask

2 (27m 30s):
You read in there about 20 pages in there is a section and, and, you know, had I not read everything, had she not decided or having me review everything with these guys, 20 pages in, and the deal was supposed to be like over X number of years and blah, blah, blah. And it was supposed to be like $300,000 at the beginning, then $120,000 every 90 days until basically we reached a $4 million range, something like that.

1 (28m 4s):
That’s kind of a strange path.

2 (28m 7s):
It’s, it’s, it’s the path because they want it to kind of the, it was kind of golden handcuffs because they wanted her to continue to work, you know, so they wanted her to be involved and they wanted all of these things. She go about 20 pages into this contract, 20 to 25 pages into the first contract. And then I see a very interesting clause in it. It said, okay, in a very convoluted language that if we decide on firing you at any point during this next, let’s say four years, okay. That we were going to pay you. Wow. I can’t wait. We will only give you 120 day notice and thereafter basically don’t owe you a pen.

2 (28m 49s):
Oh

1 (28m 49s):
Shit. I had a feeling. It was going in that direction. Oh my God.

2 (28m 54s):
Very convoluted manner. My God, my God basically meant that they literally could find this contract. Okay. Take over the company the next day, fire her. And instead of $4 million to her 300, it was $300,000 plus 120, $120,000. Something like that. I don’t remember all the numbers. So the $4 million contractors became 10% of them.

1 (29m 22s):
She didn’t, she didn’t when they, this attorney drafted this, they didn’t think anybody was gonna review it. Did they? Nope. Because fuck

2 (29m 33s):
In the industry that she is in. Yeah. Okay. There are notorious for not reading. Okay. Interesting. But they didn’t think that the attorney was going to review it or that the attorney was going to catch it. So I immediately picked up the phone call. I said, Hey, listen, I wanted to talk to you about this section. Okay. This clause you put in there. Okay. And by the way, it took me like two, three readings first to understand what’s going on. And secondly, to believe what’s going on, it’s like, how audacious are you? Like, what the heck is this paragraph?

1 (30m 10s):
That’s that’s again, it’s, it’s, it’s borderline.

2 (30m 15s):
It is. So I basically turned around, but I called them on it and the Lord with what I have to do, what’s best for my client by ripping off the basically reaching the entire contract. So he was coming in hauling and basically trying to do the best tap, dancing job he could do. And things like that. Well, you know, they don’t want to, you know,

1 (30m 34s):
He should go, he should go on. He should go into politics. Probably. I think, I think it’s those types of attorneys were singing Congress, by the way.

2 (30m 44s):
Yeah. Well, I don’t know we started on now, but that’s the kind of thing that you see. And if you’re not careful because the pot at the end was so big, you know? Yeah.

1 (30m 58s):
But, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t as it seemed,

2 (31m 2s):
No, it wasn’t as a team, we negotiated that right away. And then we went in there and I basically, at that point I was on like, I was on high alert. So I was going through that thing. I always go through a fine tooth comb. I went through, I think three times. And it was a fine tooth comb because I didn’t want to be, anyone would be scamming me or my clients or anything. And I didn’t trust them. And guess what? That deal eventually broke up. Not because of the course, but because they finally found out that the sorry, or I don’t know if they found out, but they knew that had they paid the $4 million, the dollars just weren’t there.

2 (31m 44s):
Right.

1 (31m 44s):
Right. If they had made a reasonable offer and you know, they could have been negotiated, but they wanted to steal it instead that’s

2 (31m 53s):
Broke. They, they, they broke the deal up because they couldn’t scam her. Right. And now the dollars wasn’t there, not now, they had the, the, the $4 million, you know, where they could have basically broken up after 2 million, after 1 million, whatever what’s financially feasible for them. All of a sudden they find out, oh my God, we can’t do this. So that was one

1 (32m 17s):
Of the cases. It’s funny, funny.

2 (32m 19s):
But again, this is what everyone needs to apply. You know, it’s written in the terms and conditions in the blah-blah-blah section, I call it because we all read that first section that says a and party B. And then we read the, you know, the recital, which has a, it’s supposed to do this B, it’s supposed to do this. And then you to the terms and conditions where everyone’s eyes glaze over. Right. I read them, I read them. So I

1 (32m 49s):
Get it. Not most, not many people do.

2 (32m 53s):
Sorry. One more thing in your audience, please. I don’t care how old you are. Start reading them. Even if you don’t get them the first time you read it, read it a second time and a third time, and maybe even draw a little chart for yourself that Bob is supposed to do this. Larry is supposed to do this six. I get back and forth. Whatever. Let me explain why that’s important by the time you’re on your third, fourth, fifth agreement, you get an eye for it as jibberish as it sounds sure it’s English. It becomes English where you might adjust.

2 (33m 35s):
It’s like me and take doc. The first time I was ticked off for the first day or two, it was like, my God, why is everything so fast? Why is everything 15? Like, oh my God, I can’t even focus on these videos are so fast. Now, any video that goes more than 30 seconds. Oh my God, this is so boring. Why is this taking so long? Okay. Your brain adjusts, your eyes adjust. And by the way, if you see a big legal word, like not even a big, like, whereas just put your thumb over it and the rest of the sentence without the whereas make sense.

1 (34m 4s):
Yeah, I got it. I got it. Yeah. You gotta read it, but better than reading it, six times hire an attorney. I say it all the time. People ask me, well, people are asking for legal advice, like on X biz or GF, why they’re saying, well, I’ve got this contract and what do I do about this? I go hire an attorney. Well, but hire an attorney. I mean, that’s my answer to everything. And that’s what I do. You know, I, when I, when I want to get my car fixed, I don’t try to fix it. Hire a mechanic. When I, when I have legal issues, I’ll hire an attorney. When I, you, when I, when something hurts, I go to the doctor. So anyway,

2 (34m 45s):
No, we’re more expensive than hiring an attorney,

1 (34m 48s):
Not hiring an attorney late. Yeah, no shit. So that kind of leads into this, you know, many people in our industry, like we talked about, don’t treat it like a business. How dangerous is that?

2 (35m 1s):
It’s extremely dangerous. Okay. Because of not only it can be your bench, your, you know, business deal, like where you sign a contract, where your outlay could be way more than the money that you’re getting. It could be a $10,000 contract to you, but it could be a hundred thousand dollars in damages that they’re going to claim when you don’t perform. Or if there’s something goes wrong. Right. So a hundred thousand dollars damage could be, you know, bankruptcy. Right, right. So it, it could be a bet, your business kind of a thing.

2 (35m 43s):
And when we’re most people like us, when we were, self-employed like, I am, you know, our business is our life. You know, we do spend the night, you know, waking up and you’re wearing, what was the, I tell another thing to my at UCLA class is, you know, the old joke is, you know, ever since I went into business for myself, I sleep like a baby. I wake up every two hours and cry.

1 (36m 5s):
That’s an old one. It’s an old one. But it’s true also. Yeah. I see a lot of lawsuits in our industry, especially from certain attorneys, when should someone Sue and when shouldn’t they shoot,

2 (36m 21s):
Oh boy, it’s such an open-ended question. Okay. A few things I would look for in deciding whether I want to Sue on the contract. Okay. On a business matter. The, why am I saying business matter if this was family law and they’re going through a divorce, they hate each other so much. They’ll spend $50,000 to collect that. That makes no sense. Right? They’ll do anything just to put a finger in the other person’s eye for business, you have to have a bit of a, you have to do the capitalists.

2 (37m 1s):
You have to do the calculations to make sure that it makes sense for you. Yeah.

1 (37m 5s):
But a lot of, a lot of business breakups for like divorces and people get really, really, really upset

2 (37m 12s):
Partnerships are a partnership breaks up a breakup and shareholder breakups, you know, everyone says partnership, but in reality, most of the time it’s SharePoint, the breakup is one of the second biggest things. As far as your emotions. Well, actually third, most important thing. I would put family number one, landlord tenant, number two, surprisingly, because when people like attack the way you will fight tooth and nail, and the third one would be partnership breakout. Yes. The issue is when should the question, sorry, going back to your question was when should you decide to Sue? It depends if it’s substantial sum of money, if it’s reputational that someone is destroying your reputation and it’s going to cost you more than the $10,000, that is at issue more than the $5,000 at an issue, definitely consider that.

2 (38m 8s):
Other thing you have to look at is one of the most important things that people need to understand is litigation is like a beauty contest. Okay. And because I’m so handsome, I win all, not kidding. So, but it is a beauty contest. So if you have your hand is dirty, take that into consideration as part of your, whether you Sue or not. I tell my clients, if that other side has done X, Y, and Z, and they’re all an ethical and bad and everything, that’s still doesn’t justify you doing a, B and C, because that comes out in litigation.

2 (38m 53s):
And I forced, the judge sits there and lift it’s a bench trial, which means only the judge decides, you know, the judge sits there and goes, okay, well, that guy did X, Y, and Z that’s bad, but you did a, B and C. And then I have to basically weigh which one was a worst conduct. If one side has just on the XYZ, the bad stuff, and you were clean, the judges will bend over back. Moshe did not all, you know, most judges will bend over backwards to try to have you win jewelries, do the same thing too, because they don’t want to be voting for someone that did something bad.

2 (39m 34s):
They don’t want to be saying, I’m putting my, you know, I’m voting for this guy because this guy is because then it becomes a curse upon both of your houses. So that’s another thing that you got to take into consideration in that is who did what, who, who was doing, how, you know, the actual third thing I would recommend. I think by the way, this list can go on forever. But third important factor that at once I would consider is collectability. Yes. Okay. The person has to be collectible that I can win judgements against so many people.

2 (40m 14s):
Okay. But are we able to collect it? Some kinds we do it because we have to do it. We have to prove to the world outside that we went and we enforced our rights because it’s reputational for us either. You know, it would look bad for us if we don’t do it, or people think that they’re going to get away with it by not paying us. Okay. We’re not taking care of we’re doing what they’re supposed to do with the company. So there’s the reputational. Then you have to kind of spend the money and go after this person because you want to make sure that there is an issue, right? Other times it’s not reputational. Other times, it’s, it’s just a matter of, you know, $50,000, but it’s not collectible or it’s going to cost me a lot to collect it.

2 (41m 1s):
Sure. And by the way, let your lawyer decide, okay. Or help you decide. Correct. I collected a $14,000 judgment in back in 2007. I got one, sorry, not collected. I’ve got a judgment for $14,000 in 2007, right. I immediately put, leans on, you know, what we call it abstract of judgment. This is by the way, California law, abstract of judgment everywhere. And I didn’t see anything about that for years. Last year we collected $42,000.

1 (41m 38s):
Well, my clients,

2 (41m 39s):
$14,000 judgment gets in California. It gets 10% simple interest.

1 (41m 44s):
Nice, nice.

2 (41m 46s):
So after all these years we negotiated our, I think we ended up giving her a couple of thousand off just to be, you know, somebody good. I think 40, 42, we got something like that. But we of course it at the time the person thought, eh, you know, you got a judge and again, he’s still white. I’m not going to pay the 14. Right. Okay. I had no idea that I had laid all these traps around and these traps basically had liens on their property.

1 (42m 11s):
Right. Go to when they go to, when they go to sell their property, they’ve nor their business state, they’ve got to pay them.

2 (42m 18s):
They’ve got to pay the lien before they do it. And another thing that, you know, that is dangerous, I’ve had this happen. I had a one person who was hiding all of their assets before they entered into business with my client. We went, we won, we got the judgment and the guy goes, I’m going to collectible. I don’t have any assets. And eventually that became true because the family member that they trusted with their assets took the assets.

1 (42m 54s):
Karma’s a bitch, much of litigation. These days comes from social work.

2 (43m 1s):
I’ve had a few cases on the social media. Like I get a lot of, one of the biggest things I get right now is, is when we have a shareholders basically breaking apart. And I tell everyone I’m worried about the divorce, not the wedding. You know what I mean with them? I worry about not everyone is all lovey w right down in my conference room. And I love you when you wake up, you know, I love you, you know, things like that. I’m thinking about when I hit, you know, I hit you, you know, things like that. And let’s put it in writing now, wireless cheaper, you know, and write it up. It’s some of these sentences that I write some of these paragraphs that I write in these operating agreements, or, you know, a buy-sell agreements between, between two shareholders, things like that.

2 (43m 48s):
It takes me maybe a minute to write, but that one minute saved 50 hours of legal time. Okay. If I write some simple thing, like venue, venue, like takes me what, 10 seconds, the right venue. But that can save my client thousands and thousands of dollars. Right.

1 (44m 12s):
I get that. But I mean, but I mean, w where do you, in the agreement and the initial agreement protecting against one partner, slandering the other partner in the case of a breakup or

2 (44m 24s):
<inaudible> social media aspect of it. Whenever they break up, whenever they break up, I invariably get a call from my client saying, oh, he’s slamming me on the social media. And then I go and look, and it’s not slamming you. It’s just basically saying, well, I’m no longer involved with so-and-so company. And I just didn’t feel like continuing working with them.

1 (44m 53s):
But, but what if, what if they really do slander them on social?

2 (44m 57s):
Well, a liable, because once it’s written, it’s liable, slander is when you say verbal, verbal. Yeah. Verbal. Yeah. Always remember S for speech. Yeah. So if it’s liable, if it’s a libelous conduct, yes. We can go after that and make sure you get the screenshots, make sure you do the HTML B. I want to make sure as much information as you have

1 (45m 23s):
Down before

2 (45m 24s):
It gets taken down. So the problem there sometimes is showing damages. Yes. But on certain things that the law believes damages are a given.

1 (45m 43s):
Well, what if somebody, what if somebody writes a Bruce Friedman stole for me and you know, something along those lines and I, didn’t nothing of the sort, would that be liable?

2 (45m 57s):
That that would be liable if you did no such thing, because the only real defense to libel is the truth, you know, and they have to come in there and they have to prove that you did that, that you stole something. Got it. Now, if they printed that out on, on social media, what, what you will do at that time is you will do the following. You will file your lawsuit and have to ask them to take it. We’ll ask them to take it down if they don’t take it down. But the damages, the argument I would make in a case like that was it’s a business reputational damage. Yes, yes.

2 (46m 37s):
Okay. And that the court will see as more of a less proof there’s less proof needed. Yeah. Okay. Sure. If, if I’m just, you know, there’s a few areas like, like in the old days, I don’t know if it’s still, you know, but, but like if you questioned the chastity of a woman, okay. The law assume automatically that there was damages. The woman didn’t have to prove that, oh, I couldn’t get married to, you know, sir, Bridget, you know, I guess, whatever it is and not show or this and that, or, or the Duco lecture stir.

2 (47m 18s):
Okay. Whatever, because they slandered my reputation. The government assumed the courts assume that certain business reputation, the chassis of a woman that gives there is damage. Okay. Now there’s going to be, the other side is going to say, well, what was the damage? What business deals did you lose? But it’s going to be hard for you to prove, because it’s going to be hard for you to prove like, yeah, 10 people would have called me, but nine of them didn’t how do you know?

1 (47m 51s):
Yeah. So that’s a good point. That’s a really good point. It makes for a good argument makes for a good argument.

2 (47m 58s):
That’s their argument. But my reputation, my argument would be business reputation, know how do I can approve nine people didn’t call just because they saw it that, yeah. But we can see that, you know, it was a public post. That person has thousand followers. They sent this, they sat down and all of these things that there was, there was an issue, but at the same high you’ll have to, you’ll have to also be careful because, you know, in this country we have free speech. And by the way, one of the things that people have to understand, and they keep telling me, it’s like, oh my God, free speech, free speech, free speech. No, no, no. The free speech clause is there for the government not to pass any laws that restricts your speech.

2 (48m 41s):
Right,

1 (48m 42s):
Right. It’s right there in the first amendment. Yeah.

2 (48m 44s):
It’s for the government. It puts limitations on the government. Not the people doesn’t give you carte blanche, but at the same time, you can’t just come in there and basically, you know, liable or standard or someone’s reputation, right. By the way, another thing that you gotta know, it’s gotta be published with a third party. You and me talking to each other. And I say, bro, she stole my money from me. That’s not slander.

1 (49m 7s):
Okay. Okay. What are some of the basic business things people need to know?

2 (49m 13s):
Okay. So let’s, let’s this one I’m going to shift a little bit from someone that has got an ongoing business to someone that’s a brand new business. Okay. If you’re starting a brand new business, either as talent, okay. You were starting this business and nowadays, miss y’all, everyone incorporating in California and blah, blah, blah, this other stuff. And if they’re doing that, they come in there and they have to think about it. That I have to build this proper foundation. The proper foundation is very important and the proper foundation comes from getting a good accounting program, get QuickBooks, get whatever you want.

2 (49m 59s):
There’s all these cloud-based accounts right now. But get an accounting program spent about a day or two learning it. Okay. This way you need to know whether this is worth it you’re worth your time or not your time. Okay. In addition to that, you need to basically of course do 800 different things. The class I teach at UCLA is that developing a business plan class. And it’s a 11 week course. And it’s like a mini business school and we cover marketing and sales. And you know, by the way, they’re not the same thing. A lot of people come to computer marketing. I

1 (50m 34s):
Know that being a marketing guy, that’s one of my, that that’s that that’s a, that’s a sore spot with me. So thank you for bringing that up for sure.

2 (50m 43s):
Yeah. You know, we go through all of these aspects and one of the first things I say is make sure you get that good accounting program, learn the accounting program. It’s good to know. Be able to, it’s like having a baseball game where you don’t know how many strikes, how many balls, you know, how you know, what’s the score? What is the point? You know, just basically, you know, this, the guy who’s just swinging and swinging and swinging and no one’s keeping score, you got to keep score. And the accounting programs, what keeps score. Second thing is you gotta decide whether you want to form a corporation or an LLC or not. People ask me this all the time, especially new business people. Do I form it? Do I not form it? Do I form it? Do I not form? If you’re like a company that’s, that’s just starting or some of us have you’re doing production or you doing editing or something like that.

2 (51m 30s):
You have to look at a few things to decide whether you form a corporation or an LLC limited liability company. One of them is what are you doing? Okay. What is that? Is it dangerous? Could it have dangerous implications? Like if you edit something wrong, if you don’t make proper background, a backup of it, you lose the raw footage. You know, who’d you be sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars

1 (51m 59s):
In liability. The liability,

2 (52m 1s):
Is it large? Then you want to have that corporation. I have people that say I’m in the cupcake business. And I say, you’ve got to find a corporation right now and make sure you got insured up to the ears. One bad batch, one bad thing of butter. And you’ve got a party full of sick people

1 (52m 23s):
Or, or something or something that, that goes into a cockroach crawls into it or, or something poisonous ends up in it.

2 (52m 32s):
Exactly. So you gotta be careful. So if you’re in the food business form a corporation, get yourself insured. If you’re, if you’re hiring employees, you hire a company, you form a company. If you have partners, you form a company and,

1 (52m 51s):
And get a partnership agreement.

2 (52m 53s):
Oh no, not a partnership agreement. That’s where you gotta be very careful. Okay.

1 (52m 59s):
Oh, that’s right. You’re forming like forming a company, right?

2 (53m 2s):
Forming a company is a shareholders for a company or a corporation or an LLC. It’s memberships.

1 (53m 11s):
Now.

2 (53m 12s):
Now why is this the most dangerous, horrible thing in the world is, and this is what you have to avoid, like the plague. Okay. And that is the general partnership. Why? Because it’s unlimited liability for the conduct of the other person. So if you and I walk into Bob’s office and said, we’re going to starting a editing business and we can do whatever you want or blah, blah, blah, blah, this and that.

2 (53m 52s):
The other thing. Okay. And you walk out, both of you guys walk out, just basically having formed the corporation. I’m, haven’t done an LLC having that, anything you walk out and you like, you’re getting your part and your partner gets in that car, his in his car, I’ll get in my car. Then once you leave, I go back upstairs and I tell the guy, Hey, listen. I was thinking something. If you give us a hundred thousand dollars up front, we can start this business. And instead of giving it to you for $10,000 a job, we’ll do it for you for $8,000 a job.

2 (54m 34s):
And Bob, does it guess what Bruce, everything you own is also responsible for that a hundred thousand dollars because general partnerships, which is a just, and it’s easy to get into my friend. That’s it. You just present yourself as that as it’s business people together. That’s why one of the things I look at whenever I’m with someone is their business card. Yeah. I look at the business card and I see, okay, does this say incorporation? Does it say LLC? No nothing. Then I go check the state databases, find out if they’re a corporation.

2 (55m 15s):
I go, guess what? I got these two personally liable. And I got both of them liable. Even if one of them does it, by the way, it could be nothing. Even intentionally relationship. If the person is driving their car, while they’re doing something for the business crashes, the car killed someone and they only have $15,000 in insurance. They’re both liable. They would both be liable by the way, the insurance for what people don’t know is your car insurance for your regular car. Insurance is not good enough necessarily for business insurance. So it’s true. So they gotta be careful about that.

1 (55m 57s):
You gotta have business insurance. That’s another thing.

2 (55m 59s):
Well, you got to have business insurance. That’s another thing that protects you. And then there, you gotta hop. You know, if you’re going to be a bigger company directors and officers insurance, you know, to protect you from getting sued or, you know, if something happens, you know? So, so these are some of the things that you have to do. So going back to the thing, form a corporation, if you’re with anyone else, if you’re with poor man, LLC, you know, and, and I’m not going to go into all the tax ramifications with the LLC versus the corporation or the S-corp or a C Corp, but all this stuff that the California has. But again, I’m either an LLC or a corporation because that protects your personal assets to a certain extent.

2 (56m 42s):
Okay? You still have to follow all the corporate formalities and pay all the taxes and all these. Think of it. As additional insurance provided by the state for you to have less personal liability. And by having less liability, guess what happens? You get this sleep better.

1 (57m 2s):
You don’t wake up every two hours crying like a baby.

2 (57m 5s):
Well, he used to wake up every two hours if you have payroll, but that’s not as bad. Maybe every three hours, that’s sleeping. Think of it as sleeping. So now whether you form a business, you always form a corporation. Now, if you have a partner, okay, it was not a partner. It should mean when, if you have a another shareholder or if you go to being an investor, Charney needs to write it for someone that knows what they’re doing, because yeah, it’s good to say we’re 50, 50, but sometimes it’s 70 30 and things like that. And if I represent the one, that’s a 30% owner, I make sure certain things I need 71% of the shares before it passes.

2 (57m 55s):
Otherwise, guess what? The person that has 70% of the shares has more than 50% everything they want carries.

1 (58m 2s):
Yes. Yes. That’s absolutely true. Well, Nick, how can someone contact you about all that?

2 (58m 11s):
Oh, well we have several ways. Well, the, my email is, is one way. It’s Nick, N I C k@zarlawfirm.com. Okay. So Z a R L a w F I R m.com. So Nick has our law firm.com. You can also go to our website, czar law firm.com of course. And then my phone number. And again, I answer my phones myself, because it’s not even worth the headache of this going there. And we returned phone calls as fast as we can, unless I’m going to be able to try call them at 3:00 AM. No, let’s not do that. I had opposing counsel do that to me last, last week.

2 (58m 51s):
Bastard. Yeah, 1:45 AM. And I told him 1:45 AM. What the heck? You know, I said, and he at two 15, he texted me a second time. Fuck. And I just went off on him and that’s going to cost his client a lot of money. So what’s the, what’s the number? The phone number is four two four two four zero eight, seven 44. Call it again.

1 (59m 20s):
Call today. Operators are standing by God. So go ahead and say, say it again.

2 (59m 25s):
Four, two, four, two four zero eight seven four four.

1 (59m 31s):
Well, Nick, I know we could talk a lot more and I’m sure we will on a subsequent podcast, but I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk.

2 (59m 40s):
Okay. Thank you very much for having me Ruth and you know, everyone again, nothing is worse than nothing more expensive than hiring a lawyer than hiring a lawyer late. Just remember that.

1 (59m 50s):
Okay. Thanks, Nick. My broker tip today is part four of how to buy a website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer. The work begins. If you’re working with a broker, like say, oh, I don’t know, maybe adult site broker, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counter offer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them. A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go.

1 (1h 0m 31s):
If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day and other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing. You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask these pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself drop a sales agreement.

1 (1h 1m 12s):
I always tell my clients to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules. However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney change. Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we can do for our clients is to do a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all of the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow for instance, is, can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties.

1 (1h 1m 52s):
We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to entrepreneur, Jack Armstrong of Magnum Rings.

0 (1h 2m 2s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Nick Zargarpour. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Nina Saini.

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1 (1m 25s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale. At adult side broker, we are proud to offer one of the longest running adult review sites. The site is a true pioneer in the review space. It has built a reputation for its quality of reviews with over 28,000 full and original reviews. It’s a leader in this space. The side has a wide range of columns and photo galleries. The site is powered by a custom design CMS, which enables a staff of reviewers to request titles for review, have them emailed and tracked, and then submitted it as a review to the database. The flow is pretty seamless and it’s been rocking and rolling for many years.

1 (2m 5s):
The team at this site is filled with adult entertainment enthusiasts. Everyone works remotely. All of the sites marketing is organic, which is a tremendous opportunity for a buyer with a traffic network or who wants to purchase traffic all this for only $299,000. Now time for this week’s interview.

2 (2m 27s):
My guest today on the adult side, broker talk is Nina

1 (2m 30s):
Sky. Skyzone Nina. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

3 (2m 36s):
Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Now. Nina is global

2 (2m 40s):
Marketing director at concept to consumer collective. That’s a mouthful and she’s also the founder of media bitch. I love that name. My God, they, they are industry experts in sexual wellness and sex tech concept to consumer as a new sexual wellness and sex tech global collective talk about a tongue twister created to do, to deliver sex toy concepts and true sex tech innovation into reality, which it surely needs. The company was established by industry experts. The collective offers be spoke service to its clients. I’d love that word. Just bespoke. It’s used so much in the UK.

1 (3m 21s):
Let’s start out here. Tell me about yourself, Nina. Well,

3 (3m 26s):
I’ve been working in the adult space for about 16 years now and like res it was not intentional. I was working immediate prior and through a chance meeting, I was asked if I’d be interested in marketing, a product called the cone, which launched, I think back in 2005, and that was it. So I turned out, it turned out that I was very good at marketing sex toys who knew and I’ve stayed ever since. So from there, kind of then developed working with lots of different sex toy brands all over as well as kind of on online retailers, bricks and mortar stores.

3 (4m 7s):
W what, with a few porn companies, as well as being involved in organizing national consumer sexual lifestyle shows as well. So it’s kind of a whole range. So that’s kind of a, kind of my background in a nutshell,

2 (4m 23s):
What’d you do what’d you do before adult

3 (4m 25s):
I’ve worked in television? So I was working in television production. I, yes. So I was working in television production predominantly in the entertainment space. And then I set up media bitch in 2002 in between jobs, and then ended up working with quite a few clients in art, a bit of fashion, probably the most well-known is a guy called <inaudible>, who designed all the album covers for pink Floyd and led that plan. So I worked with organizing art shows for him, as well as handling their PR side of things as well. So that was really great from what, so what is media bitch?

3 (5m 7s):
It’s a consultancy that handles works in the adult space predominantly now, and we handle marketing and business development. So I kind of go in and see what the client wants, and then we kind of cater to helping them, whatever would their objectives are for that business. Okay. It’s very unique. So there’s not a kind of like a set, you know, like some companies say, right, we’re going to work with this company and this is what we’re going to do. And it’s the same for every client. So I worked very closely with my clients and I think I’ve been really lucky to work with some brilliant people, some brilliant companies. And I think that’s, what’s kept me in the adult space as well.

3 (5m 50s):
I think any consultancy

2 (5m 52s):
And I’m a consultant myself, I think any consultancy that has a preconceived notion, how they’re going to help a client before they ask the client how they can help them is making a huge mistake. The sad part about that is that that’s how most people do it. Absolutely.

3 (6m 10s):
And I think that, you know, I don’t take on clients just to say, oh, let’s just take them on it’s about whether I can actually do something for them. And sometimes clients aren’t ready. And so you have to say, well, actually, I don’t think you’re ready for this, for what they might have come to me for. And I’ll say, well, we’re not ready for this. I think you need to go back and do X, Y, Z, and then let’s touch base thereafter.

2 (6m 34s):
Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree. 300%. And I’ve done that so many times and refuse to take people’s money.

1 (6m 41s):
And I still do that today with the adult site broker,

2 (6m 44s):
I’ll go, you know what? You’re not ready to sell because of this. Maybe it’s because you’re leaving money on the table. And if you grow it a little bit more, it’s going to be worth something. Or it’s going to be worth a lot more. Or these people come to me with these platforms. I got an email like that today and oh, we built this great whatever, and now we want to sell it. I go, is it making money? They go, no, no, we just created it. We created a platform. People don’t buy platforms, they buy successful businesses. So I have to give them the bad news that, you know, what all this money and time you put into it, you missed a very important step bringing it to market.

2 (7m 33s):
And if you

1 (7m 33s):
Don’t bring it to market, guess

2 (7m 36s):
What? No buddy’s gone. I want it. Especially in 2021, I don’t want to S a, you invented the new sliced bread or whatever the hell, but I don’t think people would even know. So what, what prompted the creation of concept to consumer?

3 (7m 53s):
We just realized that obviously the market is changing and it’s adapting. So we wanted to create something that would best service this changing climate. And we also saw strength then kind of working together and kind of using everybody, bringing in their expertise. And they’ve all got different. We’ve all got different knowledge. We’ve got experiences and we’ve got resources. So it was pulling that talent together to create solutions and provide a wider breadth of services. So for example, you know, you get some companies and I’m sure you’re familiar with this breeze where, you know, you have one company, they all hire a PR agency. Then they’ll hire a social media agency. Then they’ll hire, you know, that, you know, their manufacturers is elsewhere and none of them are speaking to each other.

3 (8m 39s):
No. So there’s no consistency in brand. And there’s no kind of thought behind the action is just everybody going off. So one of the things that we wanted to do was kind of create an integrated marketing, well, not just marketing, that’s a service that will whichever whatever thing you, we would work with you and make sure all those working parts fit together.

2 (8m 60s):
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s, that makes all the sense in the world and you’re absolutely right. Most people do it wrong. So who is C to C collective aim, debt, existing industry firms, brand new startups, mainstream brands looking to move into the pleasure sector, or I’m going to guess all of the above and you’re absolutely right. Freestyle.

1 (9m 26s):
That’s amazing. Okay.

3 (9m 28s):
You know, it’s all about, I think, you know, we want to promote the adult and sexual wellness, MarTech market in a positive light. You know, I think what’s been great is as times progressed, it’s become more and more mainstream. I know when I started personally, you know, you would pick up the phone, you would try and sell, you know, talk about pleasure products and people just hang up on you. You know, they, it was completely different. And now obviously what is great is the market has evolved. You are seeing sexual wellness more in the mainstream space and it has become more accepted. So we want to aim to support the people who are already in the industry that may need help with Sarah various elements of their business.

3 (10m 13s):
And we also want to let people know that if they are looking to come into this space, that one we know that is potentially lucrative and that we can kind of help with startups and entrepreneurs, product designers, or patent holders and help them get their product to market. I mean, cause we’ve been there, you know, we’ve all collectively, you know, excuse the pun. We’ve all gone through this experience. You know, we’ve worked with start ups and you know, we’ve gone through. And I think, you know, personally, I feel really lucky to have worked with some great startup companies that you kind of get an all around experience of what it takes to take that product to market. Right. And as you mentioned earlier, it’s not as simple as saying I built it and they, you know, and they will come.

3 (10m 57s):
It’s now about brand positioning. It’s about marketing that and it’s reaching that end consumer. So I think from our experiences and, and our mistakes in the early days, you know, you can people who come to us, we’ll be able to take advantage of that experience. And because we’ve got those resources in house and because we’re all talking to each other in that truly Burt core and integrated way, you know, it’s all on the same, you know, we’ve all got the same consistency. We’re all working towards the same goal. Right. You know, let’s say that

2 (11m 32s):
I’m a mainstream brand. Cause I find this very interesting that you do this and I’m looking to move into pleasure products. How would you address that? And what would you do for me?

3 (11m 45s):
It would be kind of, obviously it would be looking at the kind of demographic I think initially to see where you want to, who are you targeting, what’s your end goal and then kind of create that brand positioning for you and the concepts behind it. And then obviously look at the range of products we do have because we do have a lot of patent technologies and cutting edge technologies that are incorporated in the product range that we have available. So we will talk you through that process and then help market that to the targeted demographic to bring it to market. I know that’s a really kind of condensed version and obviously it’s a lot more complicated, but it is, we do have a process to go through like how we like to do take a product to market.

3 (12m 35s):
So it is very much working with the client and what their ideals are, but also managing expectations or taking something to market because obviously the market is becoming more saturated and we are seeing more and more mainstream brands becoming, you know, coming into this space. But again, it’s about doing it, right. And why not go to people who, you know, been there, done it as opposed to going to somebody who might not have any experience in that space. Right. Right. I mean, in the past I’ve worked with companies that have asked me to meet with their award-winning PR companies who are getting paid, you know, very nicely indeed.

3 (13m 21s):
And then you go in and it becomes quite apparent that they don’t know how to position that product to the, to the mainstream market, to the end consumer, but they’re getting the business, but they’re not kind of, they, they don’t understand that it is a different beast.

2 (13m 38s):
Well, they don’t know anything about adult. No. Yeah, yeah. I get it. I get it.

1 (13m 45s):
So if I’m a mainstream brand, why

2 (13m 48s):
Would I move into pleasure products? I mean, I mean, what would, what would be my incentive?

3 (13m 54s):
Well, I think people are looking to diversify in terms of business. We do know it’s a very profitable, potentially profitable sector. And I think as wellness as a whole is becoming more mainstream and brands are looking at other ways to diversify is another revenue stream. So we are seeing more and more brands coming in. You just look at, you know, I’d only look at companies like goop, for example, or clothing brands or kind of pharmaceutical companies. So they are looking to diversify. And I think what’s happened with the pandemic is people are looking at different ways that isn’t necessarily tied into a bricks and mortar traditional way of doing business.

3 (14m 38s):
Tell us a little bit

2 (14m 40s):
About who you’ve been able to add as experts to the collective besides yourself. Of course,

3 (14m 46s):
We’ve got great experts on board from all over the world. So some of which are people like Dr. Sonny Rogers, who’s a very established sexologist. We’ve got Toon, Timmermans from kuru. Who’s brilliant with technology and online platforms in interactivity. We’ve got automobile Brian, who’s got a wealth of development, knowledge and injury industry insight. We’ve got Mark Phillips and tofa Taylor who bring on that LGBTQ experience and knowledge. So those are just some of the few people that we have. We have got more, which are to be announced in due course. So it’s the idea of constantly expanding in our collective of experts so we can help one help each other and help people within the industry and new businesses coming into this space.

2 (15m 37s):
Now you mentioned LGBTQ, it seems to me anyway, that there, that there’s just an amazing amount of potential for men’s sex health products.

3 (15m 52s):
Absolutely. I would agree with that. I think it’s been interesting because when I initially one of the earlier clients I worked with was a male sexual brand and it’s been quite interesting watching that transition from why people still giggle when it comes to male sex products. So, you know, that’s kind of adapting and I think also the whole gender lists marketing for sex toys. So obviously with the increase of, you know, gender fluid and binary identities, I think that’s another interesting market to watch in terms of how brands will then go on to talk to and communicate to those kinds of customers.

3 (16m 39s):
Now you seem to have

2 (16m 40s):
A mainstream marketing business involved with Derek block and his touchstone business. How does having a non-industry business support your overall concept?

3 (16m 51s):
Well, actually with Derek and his business, they he’s got an ex actually got an extensive background and knowledge in the adult space. So we’ve known him for about 12 years and he’s been buying and sourcing products quietly and discreetly for one of the biggest U S adult businesses. He’s got a fantastic team and his speciality is the brand building and bringing new insight and creative skills outside of the market. So it’s kind of like a marriage, I think, you know, bringing that fresh high aspect and then combining it with our adult experience. So his development is a kind of like brand first where you build out a strong sustained and a strong vision, which I think is invaluable.

3 (17m 35s):
And especially if you want a brand to last in this market, you know, and have that potential to grow.

2 (17m 41s):
Okay. Now is the concept of C to C based around offering a complete service and how so

3 (17m 49s):
It’s both. So yes is the easy answer on that one. We are a fully integrated business, so we can take a kind of any idea and help create, make that into a reality. So what we’ve got in house is in-house designers, product engineers, Brandon concept, creatives, marketing professionals, web, and e-commerce specialists, as well as all of the manufacturing capabilities that our wing power provides. Well, who’s obviously one of our partners we’ve got post-production. We can help with logistics, warehousing, fulfillment, and more, you know, we want this to be, will inclusive, and we’ve got lots of people and service providers involved in the business, which is why we’re actively building our power expert advisory panel with like-minded people.

3 (18m 36s):
And we’re happy to talk to anybody that might want to talk to us.

2 (18m 40s):
That’s awesome.

3 (18m 41s):
You know, I think there’s enough space for all of us and it’s about sharing the love. It’s not just about mine and I’m not going to help you. You know, I think those days are gone and I think it’s about adapting and helping each other for sustainability of the industry.

2 (18m 58s):
Yeah. And I think, you know, this industry has always kind of been that way we’re competitors to work together. So it’s a, it’s kind of a big kumbaya thing.

3 (19m 9s):
I think it’s been great. I mean, I absolutely love working in the adult industry. I’ve got fantastic friends from all over the world and you know, and the fact that we’re still friends in, you know, over the 16 year period, at least for myself, and you know, that you can pick up the phone, doesn’t matter how long it’s been that you’ve seen each other. It’s just like, like you just pick up where you left off.

2 (19m 32s):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s why not having trade shows has been tough because I tell people that every time there’s a trade show, it’s like a family reunion and yeah. Yeah. I miss my family. I miss my family.

3 (19m 47s):
I miss the hugs. Yes. Yes.

2 (19m 50s):
I’m, I’m a big, I’m a big hugger. So yeah, I, I, I definitely miss that. I hope those come back anyway. So will a client need to have a lot of money to bring an idea that they sketched out on a coaster, say to market through your services?

3 (20m 11s):
I think our services is, you know, it’s exceedingly competitive, we’re targeted, we’re focused, we’re focused. Unlike a lot of startups spend, you know, we’ll be looking, you know, companies already invest considerable amounts to various companies to get to that point. And none of it is integrated and complimentary. So I think with the collective, you know, offering that integrated complimentary service, we do have very clear and open and straightforward price. And we want to have long-term strategic relationship with our clients and we want them to succeed. You know, I always say it’s not just about succeeding for the client. I want to succeed for us as well.

3 (20m 52s):
So we’re just as invested in the success of our clients as they are.

2 (20m 58s):
Okay. Well, let’s say, you know, they did jot this idea out on a, on a placemat or on a

4 (21m 5s):
Coaster or a, or a, or

2 (21m 9s):
What they put their beer on and they don’t have money. Do you, can you address that as well? Do you, do you have investment people?

3 (21m 19s):
It is something we’re looking to develop as having an investment fund as well. So yeah. Watch this space.

2 (21m 26s):
Oh, you got it. I will. I definitely will. Now let’s say a client wants to just cherry pick from the services you offer. If, if he or she already has some experience on board, can they do that?

3 (21m 41s):
Absolutely. I mean, if somebody wants just one element of what we’re offering, that is absolutely fine, we can do that. We will, we will quite for that particular service that they’re after and scope out the work that needed for that service. So the idea is, is wherever you are on that journey with your product or your brand, we can integrate and support that journey.

2 (22m 2s):
Okay. Okay. Now let’s say a mainstream brand that has never worked in adult creates a range of sex toys for it. How do you think existing players in the adult market would react?

3 (22m 17s):
It’s already happening first and foremost. So I think it’s a case now for us to adapt to what’s already happening. We can’t stop, you know, the train’s already left the platform, it’s going through the tunnel it’s happening. So it’s a case of us now adapting to that. So we can either go with it or be left behind, you know, we can jump on that train with we’re left on the platform. So I think there’s an opportunity for all of us to help and support and expand the reach that will help all of us capitalize on the opportunities that are coming from this kind of mainstream exposure.

2 (22m 54s):
Okay. Okay. Maybe you can give me some examples of some, if you can, some a and it doesn’t have to just be people that you’ve worked with of some mainstream companies that have, that have jumped into the, into the pleasure product space and what their level of success was. Well,

3 (23m 14s):
I think it’s at the moment it’s difficult because we’re seeing a lot of companies launch. So I would have to do some digging on terms of how that is for them, because I think sometimes what happens is, is you see a lot of major exposure, but that doesn’t necessarily convert or translate into sales. So I’d be interested to see in about 12 months where these brands are.

2 (23m 38s):
Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Now with different clients within a small market, how are you going to ensure confidentiality?

3 (23m 48s):
Confidentiality has always been key to what we’ve all done, whether it’s individually or collectively, I think it’s really important and it’s important to our clients that we keep that confidentiality. So we just, you know, we do do we sign NDAs at the onset of discussions and by therefore we honor that and make sure that everything is kept. We do not share any information with the party businesses and all agreements will be contracted in us or UK law. Okay. So let’s say

2 (24m 23s):
Today, I came to you and I said, okay, Nina, I’ve got this idea for a product and I’m, I’ve never done this before. Okay. Take me through the steps of how the collective would help me start get going, and then take it to market. I

3 (24m 44s):
Think it would be a case of just discussing with you breeze in terms of, it will be a case of what the product is. Who are you looking to reach? What kind of branding you have. So I think a lot of it is difficult. Again, like I said earlier, I don’t want to give you a kind of blanket on answer. No, and I’m not, I’m not looking for a cookie cutter answer. Let’s let’s say, let’s say

2 (25m 6s):
I came up with a really cool new men sex toy. Okay. And it’s, it’s something that’s different from anything else out there. And I just want your guidance as to, okay, how should we move forward? Maybe you can tell me, well, what would the questions be? What would you ask me about?

3 (25m 27s):
I would love to look at one the products and see if there’s any ways that we can improve it in terms of technology based stuff that can improve, you know, create an even better version of the product would have look at the drawings that you have. And I’d also be interested in saying, well, what are your USP’s? Why is this product different to anything else you’ve got out there on the market? Who are you targeting? You know, and look at things with you in terms of, you know, what your ideas are around the brand and the product, and who do you want to target? And then go work through that in terms of, you know, the phase one of launching one product, are you looking to launch further products? You know, how far are you with your branding, your website, your B2B, and your B to C communications, are you selling to the end consumer or are you looking for distribution?

3 (26m 17s):
So it would be a lovely long conversation of understanding what your needs are as a client. And then I’ll be able to provide you with kind of Pacific ideas regarding your product and how we can take that to market.

2 (26m 31s):
Do you guys have like a questionnaire that is kind of good? Good. Okay. That’s great. All right. Now, why do you think the market needs a collective like this?

3 (26m 44s):
As I mentioned earlier, I think, you know, times are changing and I think our industry needs to adapt to thrive. You know, we’re collective of industry experts. Who’ve worked in this space for many, many years, so we can all, we all bring our strengths and we can offer a variety of different services, you know, from the people that have the experience and have the knowledge, you know, they’ve done, they’ve walked those steps themselves. So if one of these services that we offer can help a business, then it, that is brilliant. You know, that’s what we want to do. Obviously clients can pick and choose what they need help with. And we have an option for them. You know, there are lots of agencies out there, but I kind of feel like with the collective, we offer something different.

3 (27m 27s):
You know, we do have those resources. We do have manufacturing facilities. We do have patient technologies. You know, we have got the marketing and merchandising arm of the business as well. So it’s different to, again, it goes back to what I said earlier about rather than hiring six different agencies to do different things. You’ve got this with the collective, you’ve got this one stop shop as it were that caters, and that can cater across a range of services for the client.

2 (28m 0s):
What unique technologies and patents can you offer clients?

3 (28m 5s):
Okay. So we’ve got quite a few technology. We have time. So we’ve got things like I’m going to have to check my list here. So we’ve got some wing power who are our manufacturing arm. They’ve got a range of unique technologies and patrons, and they are, have a factory based in China. So they’ve got various technologies like body resonating technologies, touch sensors, data app services. I’m trying to think now what else I’ve got on my list, multiple bullet function. So we’ve got quite a few different technologies that we have patents too, that are unique to us.

3 (28m 51s):
And obviously brand brands or clients working with us would have access to those technologies.

2 (28m 57s):
Interactive type of products seemed to be the real future where a cam girl can, can get on cam. And she has a device and the man has a device or the man and the man or the woman and the woman, whatever it is, you know, and I know there’s been some of that, but it seems to be an area where there’s just so much potential. Talk a little bit about that market, where it’s at and where do you think it’s going? I

3 (29m 32s):
Think it’s an exciting one to watch because obviously I still believe it’s kind of at the early stages. So I think there’s further development there and further scope to kind of create better products that connect. And it’s very hot at the moment in terms of obviously people being away from their loved ones during the pandemic and connecting. So we have got quite a few things that we’re working on behind the scenes to kind of make, offer a better offering of those services. So I think we’ll see more and more of those type products where people can interact with AR or VR, or as you said over the internet through webcams or POL and they’re watching.

3 (30m 17s):
So I think we’ll see more and more technology going that way.

2 (30m 21s):
Do you think that’s the future of sex tech?

3 (30m 25s):
I think it’s one of the ways of going forward with sex tech. I don’t think it’s the only way, but I think that more and more people are open to going, you know, trying that technology. And I think there will be what’s. I think that I think there will be a big demand for it. Absolutely.

2 (30m 43s):
What are innovations are happening in sex tech? Because I’m more of an internet guy, I’ll be the first to admit it. I deal mainly with people with content sites and the times that I’ve been able to go to product shows and the like, it’s always been fascinating to see what’s new. We had seen, we had, you know, virtual AVN recently CES, which I think has some sex tech in it. Now, what have you seen that’s?

3 (31m 15s):
Well, I can tell you, we’ve got an exciting range of products in house that really excites me. And I think, but yeah, I think we’ve got a really exciting range of products in terms of like where technology is going and what we can do. And I think also people are becoming more concerned with, you know, the ethical side of products as well. So I think that’s going to be an interesting one to watch. And obviously the one we touched on earlier, the advance of kind of internet connectivity and yeah. The internet. So I think those are kind of the key ones I would kind of be looking at. I mean, obviously I’m going to be biased with your breeze and say, we’ve got a fantastic range of products.

3 (31m 59s):
I haven’t seen anything like those on the market. You need to come and talk to us. I think those would probably be the key points that I would kind of highlight in terms of where we’re going in terms of sex tag.

2 (32m 11s):
Okay. Any of those you can talk about? Oh, well

3 (32m 16s):
I think we’ve got a whole range of products on lights. So for example, we’ve got things that are, you know, voice controlled app controlled music, controlled, remote controlled, we’ve got things that heat up temperature control multimodal has various touch senses products that vibrate not just in this concentrated area, but wider. There’s a lot of technologies that we have. Yeah. I mean, we do have kind of, we’ve touched on them on our website C to C collected.com. So there’s more information there if anybody wants to kind of go more details. But what I would say is, come and talk to us,

2 (32m 55s):
You know, one, one thing that I’ve been hearing about lately, which is big, obviously with any connected devices, security, how do you guys address that?

3 (33m 6s):
Something that we are kind of looking to improve to sort of, because obviously one of the things we do is we’re not looking to share data with the parties. So it’s kind of, I think it’s kind of making the customer more aware of and being more transparent and honest. So it’s kind of fundamentally the customer’s choice to switch on that day to accessibility or turn it off. But I think the key thing is as being transparent, so it’s not being done secretly, I think what’s gone wrong in the past has been the lack of transparency or people haven’t realized that that data is being shared. Yeah. But I was talking more

2 (33m 44s):
About security in terms of, I’ve actually heard of situations where hackers have been able to access a women’s pocket pals and you know, actually control them and, and make them go at amazing speeds and things like that. How are you addressing things like that? Well,

3 (34m 8s):
Data security is something we’re taking very importantly. So that is something we are working on. But I I’ll be honest with you, Bruce. I hadn’t heard that.

2 (34m 16s):
Oh yeah. Oh, it’s out there.

3 (34m 18s):
I haven’t heard that. I got to do some digging on that one

2 (34m 21s):
With the interactive products. There’ve been hackers who have taken over, over people’s devices. It’s, it’s pretty wild, but well, welcome to 2021, right?

3 (34m 32s):
Yeah, no tray. I mean, obviously we take anything like that seriously. So it’s kind of, you know, working to constantly improve and to make sure that kind of thing doesn’t happen. And obviously that the customer feels comfortable. Yes. When they’re buying those types of products that they, their data is safe and, you know, with the hackability that limits, those kind of problems.

2 (34m 58s):
Absolutely. Now how will you address each client’s potential needs and give them a unique service? It’s

3 (35m 6s):
Kind of, you know, as we discussed earlier, it’s kind of speaking to them and kind of working out what it is that the client wants. We ha we do have a well-structured, you know, fight tested five step collaboration process. So, you know, this normally starts, as I said earlier, with discovery and mapping, trying to understand the client’s business, what their vision is. And then that will kind of help us then define a scope of work and the deliverables, and it’s kind of working together. So it’s not kind of like here it is the end goodbye, you know, it’s kind of that constant collaboration with each other. So we kind of work with the clients is define the scope of work, the deliverables, and then discuss that with the client and then kind of create that final proposal or adaptable proposal.

3 (35m 55s):
Should I say to assure that everybody’s aligned and on the same page, it’s all about being a partner. Sorry. It is absolutely. So it’s, you know, again, being transparent and you know, the client knowing in advance, what they can expect and what the costs are involved. There’s no kind of hidden secrets. So it’s all about communicating at every stage of the process with clearly identified milestones. You know, our strength really is that herb is a collective of these industry experts. You know, it’s not just one person saying, okay, this is what we’re going to do. It’s all of us kind of thinking of how we can help the client and what else we can bring to that business.

2 (36m 40s):
Right. Fantastic. Well, Hey, Nina, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do the scan really soon. My broker

1 (36m 49s):
Tip today is part three of how to buy a website. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you’ve either reached the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site, the broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years. That’s up to date if it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, getting username and password for the site so that you can review the content, ask how often the site is updated, get some history on the site. How long has it been in business, the story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content and how much of it is current technologies like 4k, find out if all of the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller.

1 (37m 45s):
If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the content is on find out how much the content costs to produce and what the current cost to production is. Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the owner, do they do the shooting themselves or did they hire someone to do it? And if there’s an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what is the retention rate on the site and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic ask for Google analytics access.

1 (38m 25s):
So you can see where the traffic comes from. This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to industry attorney, Nick, zap, gas, poor,

0 (38m 43s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Nina Saini. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult star, content creator, podcast hostess and comedian Kate Kennedy.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale that adult site broker, we have just listed five amazing adult domains per sale. Any of these domains can be used to build a very successful and brandable website to domains are sexo.com and porn flicks.com listed@fivemilliondollarseachask.com listed at $4.25 million.

0 (1m 48s):
stud.com listed a $2.95 million and strip cam.com for only $695,000. For more information, contact us@adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview.

1 (2m 6s):
My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Kate Kennedy hostess of the podcast cam girl Chronicles on I’m life. Kate, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank

2 (2m 17s):
You so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

1 (2m 20s):
I’m excited to have you now. Kate is a comedian, a podcast host content creator and retired adult film star. And as I just mentioned, she hosts the podcast cam girl Chronicles presented by I’m lying, which is an inside look at the wild and wacky world of online cam modeling. Okay. Worked as a professional porn star, both in front of and behind the camera from 2017 to 2020. That was the last year. And she retired then from studio work to focus on comedy and creating her own content on only fans where she is in the top 1%. Wow.

1 (2m 59s):
Congratulations. Thank you.

2 (3m 1s):
It’s the only time we will probably ever be in the 1%,

1 (3m 6s):
Give yourself some credit now, as she lives in LA with her three legged dogs, squeegee

2 (3m 12s):
Hmm. May or may not interrupt us at some point. We’ll see. She’s a little sleepy. I gave her some toys, so we’ll see.

1 (3m 19s):
I’ve got four. So I’m more likely to get interrupted. You can connect with her at L I N K T R dot E forward slash the G Kennedy with two N’s cam girl Chronicles is an entertaining peek behind the scenes of the world of cam. This 10 episode series is fast paced and hilarious with great stories, fun features, and plenty of surprises. Plus play along with munch madness, their weekly countdown@camgirlpod.com. Exactly how it’s spelled, where you decide the winner cam girl Chronicles is good, clean, dirty fund made fresh every Sunday.

1 (4m 3s):
So Kate, tell me besides what I just described, what’s your new podcast about?

2 (4m 11s):
Yeah, I mean, it’s pretty much what we described. I’m a lot more than that. It’s crazy. I interviewed cam girls from all over the world, which is so fascinating. I’m up at like 6:00 AM to talk to girls in Bucharest every day and like Columbia, all these different, crazy places. And it’s just so interesting to get to talk to sex workers from all over the world and find kind of like our own like commonalities between what sex work is like. And also just their unique perspectives. I really think that even as progressive as most sex workers are in like the U S and stuff, we still like kind of have a little bias about sex workers overseas.

2 (4m 54s):
And it’s just so interesting to really talk to these people that are from, you know, like places I’ve never heard of. I’ve never been to. And they’re just so funny and cool and fucking smart and interesting. And I want to travel all over the world and hanging out with them now. So it’s really fun. We do a bunch of different features. A lot of it’s crazy. I write these little like weird daily show style, sex news segments every week, which are so fun that we include in this the show. So it’s just been the best experience getting to create the show. And I’m really, really proud of it. What have some

1 (5m 27s):
Of your favorite guests been so far? If I could put you on the spot? Oh

2 (5m 32s):
Man. Okay. I have to shout out Mia. Her I’m live name is sweet. Kiss Brazil. She is a fucking rock star. Social media just like pushes the show. She’s wonderful. I mean, you can not listen to her and not be like this girl’s the coolest ever. So she’s been amazing. All of the girls who’ve gotten to talk to all of the people at that work at the studios because they work in, especially in Romania and studios. Yes. Like they go to these places that really, they look like a Vegas casino. Like, it looks like you’re at the aria or like the Bellagio. And they’re in these beautiful environments where they have like people handling the equipment to nail lady, his hair, ladies, makeup ladies.

2 (6m 14s):
They have a whole commissary. I’m like, I want to cam here, but they’ve all just been so fun. They’ve all brought like different things to the table. And it’s been really, really cool to get, to get to know them.

1 (6m 27s):
Yeah. We did a, we did a segment on, on studios with Aandra who, who runs one of the, one of the studios there. Now, what advice do you have for interviewing sex workers? Maybe you can tell me because I do that a lot.

2 (6m 44s):
Yeah. I’m actually working on a piece right now because I doing this project kind of inspired me to ask more questions because I’ve given of man, I love talking about myself. So I’ve probably given hundreds of interviews at this point, but like it started making me think about like, what questions do I get asked? What questions do I like or questions do I not? And so like, I really, I asked Twitter just like openly, like, what are your least favorite questions that you get asked in an interview? And how would you change them? Right. You know? Cause like a lot of times you get asked about like, what were you like in high school? Or how did you lose your virginity? And it’s like, okay, that’s kind of icky. Right? Like I was like under, usually that’s not cool to ask or like your family and stuff.

2 (7m 26s):
Like, you know, I like my, the whole inspiration for that was like, I don’t like being asked about my family. Cause that feels really personal and it’s known, you know, it’s not their thing. So I kind of like asked them and they, I got such good response as about like, oh, I would rather be asked about this or that. And so I think the way to do it and I will be publishing this piece really soon is just to, I mean, first of all, cause you asked when we were setting up this interview as well. Like what do you want to talk about? What questions you want? Like ask us because we know what we want to talk about. We know are comfortable talking about, and we’re pretty good at setting boundaries. Cause you have to be, you learned that really fast and in sex work.

2 (8m 7s):
So, you know, it’s just kind of stuff like that. And I’ve gotten such good responses. I’m really excited to get to share them with everybody. So

1 (8m 14s):
Give me a couple of examples and I am expecting you to send a, send a link to that article to me so I can read it. But what are some examples of questions people want to be asked? And then some, some examples of questions people don’t like to be asked,

2 (8m 30s):
Okay, I’m pulling this up right now. Like on my phone because it did not have this like du, du, du, du, du, du two jeopardy theme song in the back. All of my shit posts that I put on Twitter. Why do I do this to myself? I don’t know. I know because I have thoughts about that Meghan Markle interview and I felt the need to tweet about it. Like 10 times last night someone was like, are you okay? And I was like, absolutely not. Didn’t everybody

1 (9m 2s):
Have thoughts about Megan Markle on that interview, by the way, we’re we’re recording this. We’re recording this in March right after the interviews. So just in case people are going wait, that was two months ago.

2 (9m 14s):
Oh yes. Okay. So this is a really good one. So I pulled up this thread. Okay. A lot of times people will ask you, like, what are your horror stories? What’s your worst customer or your worst client or worst scene. And it’s like, stop asking me to tell on people who pay my bills and who’s gonna want to relive that exactly asked me who my best or my most memorable was. Right. Like ask me who my favorite was. Who’s the funniest. Let’s see. How did you lose your Virginia? That one cropped up a bunch of times. People really don’t like being asked that, oh, this was a big one. And this only happened to me a couple of times, but I, couple of people said that interviewers have literally asked them if they found them attractive and would they fuck them?

2 (9m 58s):
Which like, okay, no, like that’s so awkward. What’s your favorite position? Cause that’s just a boring one. Like there’s like one cute answer to that. And it’s CEO and it’s been done to death. Mine is the one where you just like slammed my face into the pillow and I can’t breathe. That’s my favorite one. Oh, who’s your favorite performer to work with? That’s a really loaded one. Right? Because like whoever else you’ve worked with, if they are getting

3 (10m 32s):
Is going to feel

2 (10m 33s):
Exactly. And also every pro porn performer is going to say man, Wolfer era because that’s always the answer. How did you start porn or why? Which I understand that a good one or a bad one. That’s a bad one. And I understand why people don’t like it because there’s, for me, especially like there are a thousand reasons, like there’s, it gets such a complicated, nuanced issue, right? Like I could talk about like unfair labor and hiring practices. I could talk about how all labor under capitalism is inherently exploitive. And if you’re working in a coal mine, you’re also selling your body. Right? Like I could also talk about like I liked sex.

2 (11m 14s):
And at the end of the day, I didn’t want to work a nine to five or I wanted, you know, the freedom. So there’s so many different answers to that. That it’s not, you know, let’s see. Who’s your favorite person to work with? How’d you lose your virginity. Those were big wins. I got a lot of responses on this.

1 (11m 31s):
So Kate, how did you lose your, no, I’m not going to ask you that. What were some of the highlights of your performing career in gain an adult video?

2 (11m 46s):
Oh man. I mean like all of it was really fun. I had a blast and we’re coming up on my we’re like four or five days from my retirement anniversary, which is insane. I can’t believe it’s been a year. I retired early because of COVID like, whenever people are like, why did you retire? Like, cause COVID like, I shot my last scene. And then we went into lockdown the next day and it will three weeks later I turned 26 and I was like, wait a second. Like we need to start thinking about something else because this isn’t gonna keep going. And I don’t want to get my tits done. I’m not a teenager anymore.

2 (12m 26s):
I am, I can no longer convincingly play one. So, you know, like, but all of them all, they’re so fun. I really got the opportunity to work for a lot of amazing companies, a lot of great directors with a lot of really cool people. And so, you know, like I would say highlights where I loved working for kink.com. I worked for them many, many times. I’ve had several hoodies from them. They’re great. Love them. And just, I mean, everyone, I really didn’t have like maybe one or two, not great experiences, but I really never had a bad one. I love graffiti.

1 (13m 4s):
I won’t ask you what your worst experiences were. Cause that was on the list. Okay. So what are some of the craziest stories you’ve heard in these interviews? You’ve done?

2 (13m 17s):
Oh my God. There’s been so many and they’re so fun and I’m so glad the girls are like, feel safe. Sharing them with us. My favorite ones so far has been a guy that liked to get a dress up in laundry with a pony butt plug and dance around stripping to the bare necessities from the jungle book. I want that guy in my cam room. That would be so much fun.

1 (13m 45s):
Yeah. He sounds like a, like a real card. What are some like what are some other stories?

2 (13m 51s):
Oh man. Let’s see. There’s a guy that likes to put frozen bananas in his butt hole. That was a funny one. I heard one today. That absolutely shocked me to my core this year. Wait a minute,

1 (14m 4s):
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Something shocked you. And you worked in adult for, you worked in an adult for four years and, and you cam okay, go ahead.

2 (14m 14s):
This girl today, this morning, and this is like eight o’clock in the morning. Mind you, and I’m not a morning person. So like hearing these stories, this early is crazy, but she, do you remember the mentors and diet Coke challenge? Okay. This guy did the Mentos and diet Coke challenge and put the bottle in his butthole and my face. I mean, you can die do it like that can kill you. Like that was, I literally was like, is he okay? Like I need to talk to him now.

1 (14m 45s):
I guess nothing shocks me. I was, I was, I was trying to picture it going. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Not something I do

2 (14m 54s):
Me neither. Not something anyone should do. I want to make that really clear. I did that in this podcast was like, seriously, the velocity of that liquid can rupture your colon and kill you. Please don’t do that. Well, I don’t

1 (15m 5s):
Like things in my butthole, but then again, I’m, you know, I like girls, what can I say? So what have you learned about camming around the world? I

2 (15m 16s):
Think the biggest thing has just been how, cause I don’t like to have like an American centric worldview. I really like to like break myself out of that. But I guess just how progressive attitudes towards sex work in other parts of the world are that we don’t really understand here in the us. Like we, when I talked to these girls that are working at these studios and like Romania and Columbia, like we can’t even have studios like that here it’s considered a brothel. Like it would be illegal to have something like that. And they there’s some studios in the states. There’s a couple, but it’s really, really hard to legally be able to do that. And I know people that own a couple. Yeah. And it’s like, even in like Nevada, if you want to do something like that, you technically need like a brothel license.

2 (16m 2s):
That’s interesting because

1 (16m 4s):
Cause I used to work with a cam company that had a studio in Nevada. I never, I never asked them if they had a brothel license.

2 (16m 12s):
Yeah. There’s a bunch of like legal issues and talking to like both the owners of the cam companies and then other people that are also just like in Theodore industry about the logistics of doing that. There’s so much more red tape here. And also like the way that their, the way their peers understand, like especially online sex work is so different in other parts of the world, like right now, Columbia is the largest growing cam market in the world and they have such a progress. And it’s so fascinating because right, this is this like south American country that’s heavily Catholic. And yet they have this incredibly progressive view of sex work.

2 (16m 53s):
Like I have never met a Colombian Kim model whose family did not a thousand percent support them. Sure. Is she, is

1 (17m 0s):
She a thousand percent supports that?

2 (17m 3s):
Exactly. Which is, I mean like totally fine. We, you know, we talk about sex work. It’s really one of the only industries where you can make a very good living without those high barriers of entry, like a university degree or networking or inherited wealth. And I mean, I really think that the U S is falling behind on this run.

1 (17m 24s):
I mean, here in Thailand, you can’t imagine how many millions of people are supported by a prostitution here. I mean, they send their money home to their families. Absolutely. And it’s accepted, it’s still not legal, it’s accepted. And as far as the U S goes to U S is so behind so many areas, I can’t even begin to tell you when the more I’m in different parts of the world, the more I realize how far behind we’ve fallen in, in all these areas. And one area really is the whole idea of morals, you know?

1 (18m 9s):
Yeah. In Columbia, they’re Catholic, but they’re not evangelicals.

2 (18m 13s):
It’s not, it doesn’t have that puritanical bent to it. But so much of us culture has that I think really sets us back socially and economically so far, especially in terms of like women’s rights and liberation. I mean it’s international women’s day as we’re recording this. Yes.

1 (18m 33s):
Happy international women’s day.

2 (18m 35s):
Thank you. Nobody has grabbed my pussy all day, so I don’t even know what we’re supposed to be celebrating, but that’s fine.

1 (18m 46s):
So, so what, what’s it like working with

2 (18m 50s):
Lot? It’s been wonderful. They have been so supportive of this project. They’ve really let us do so much of what we wanted to design the show. Like it, I mean, it’s been such a cool experience to really get to go in and say like, we’re going to do the show about sex work by sex workers, by people that understand this industry and like to get to write on this show. I mean, I put in so many hours of work on the show every week, not just interviewing, but the writing and the jokes and all of the stuff that goes into it. And like just to see them be so happy with it and also to let us design it in that way has just been incredible.

2 (19m 31s):
They’ve been so great. And they’ve supported the show so wonderfully with getting us the girls to interview and listening to our ideas. We just had a meeting today about the last episode of the first season that went really well. So it was very exciting and yeah, they’ve been wonderful,

1 (19m 48s):
Great company. I’ve got lots and lots of friends over there in my Israeli homeys. So what goes into writing and creating a show like yours

2 (19m 60s):
So much? Like it’s so much of me just sitting at my computer, like pulling up the online thesaurus, like looking up like different terms for sex. Like I, I have so many bookmarks on my computer now that I’m sure like the FBI is going to be pounding down my door any day. Now it’s a lot. I mean, between me and like romaine who’s the producer and the editors and everyone that lays down the different pieces of the audio to like the girls that are willing to speak to us and take hours out of their day to do so, which we’re incredibly grateful for. Like it’s such a team effort and it really is such a labor of love because we love doing it.

2 (20m 43s):
I mean, I sit and write these like dumb little daily show, style news for hours. And I know my life would be so much easier if I didn’t insist on writing all of them as like tongue twisters, but I, Kate Kennedy adores alliteration. That’s my joke. But yeah, it’s, it’s been so much fun. I get to do so much research and put just, it’s just, it’s so cool. It’s just so much fun. I it’s a lot of work, but I absolutely adore every single second of it. And I hate getting up in the morning, hate it. And I am willing to wake up at 6:00 AM to do this. Like there’s very little else. I’m willing to wake up at 6:00 AM for almost nothing.

2 (21m 25s):
I literally cannot name anything else. Wait

1 (21m 28s):
Until you get older, like me, it’ll be a,

2 (21m 31s):
My mom keeps saying that and it has not happened yet. Well,

1 (21m 36s):
26.

2 (21m 38s):
Yeah. I’m almost 27. My birthday is coming up.

1 (21m 40s):
Oh God. Yeah. Well, you’ve got a long way to go. Girl just started happening to me and I turned 63 in October. So what’s been the biggest challenge creating the podcast.

2 (21m 55s):
The time difference sucks. I live, I live in LA, there are producers in New York, so, and then Bucharest is 10 hours ahead of LA. So I’m getting up at 6:00 AM, super rough, you know, good personal challenge for me. I think just kind of, to me the biggest thing, anytime I’m doing anything when in sex work or involving sex workers, but also has like a mainstream media bent to it, is that just, I want to portray these people honestly, and in the way that they want to be, because I think that that’s so rare.

2 (22m 36s):
I think it’s so uncommon in that they get to tell their own stories. And so that’s just been my kind of like guiding light Maxim in doing this is that I really care about the way that these girls are portrayed and I really care that they’re portrayed honestly, and in the way that they want to be. So I put a lot of pressure on myself to do so, because I know how I feel when I, you know, see media that doesn’t portray sex work in a real or honest light. So, you know, but I think we’ve been able to do that. So it’s paid off. Absolutely.

1 (23m 15s):
Well, and then you’re the perfect host for this show because you do it yourself.

2 (23m 21s):
Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, I think that that experience and like, I’ve been really honest the whole time. Like I have done cam, I was not very good at camming. Like I don’t consider that a strength of mine. These girls are much better at it than I probably will ever be, but I do understand what they go through on a regular basis. I know what it’s like to be doing a show for hours on end and be bored and not have anyone in your room and feel bad and you know, and try to have to stick it out. I mean, these girls have an incredible work ethic and I really want to highlight that. Yeah. And I think

1 (23m 59s):
That, I think the ones overseas, if you want to talk about work ethic, I think they, they always, people overseas always have a better work ethic than Americans.

2 (24m 9s):
They really do. There’s a reason we’re falling behind in manufacturing, our own porn, our own cars, our own anything. There is a very good reason.

3 (24m 18s):
Indeed. What’s

1 (24m 19s):
The, what’s been the biggest surprise so far

2 (24m 23s):
I think. And this is going to sound terrible because I’m going to come from my own biased standpoint. Right. I love breaking down my biases. Like I think that’s so important. I think I know what’s coming, but go ahead. Yeah. It’s just how fucking cool these girls are. They’re so funny. They’re so smart. They work so hard. They’re sweet. They’re cool. I want to hang out with them. Like I kind of do this joke where, you know, you know, like the scariest stripper in a strip club. Cause I used to be a stripper as well. The scariest stripper in the strip club is always like six feet tall and blonde and her name is always Svetlana and she’s fucking terrifying, right? Like Russian strippers are the scariest fucking people on the planet.

2 (25m 4s):
Like do not fuck with that.

4 (25m 6s):
I will break you literally,

2 (25m 9s):
She will either break you or she will pee in your bag, like, which is a thing that happens in strip clubs. But like I it’s been so rewarding to be able to break down that bias for myself. And hopefully for people that listen to this show of that, like I think we as sex workers, if we want to really fight for things like decriminalization and equal rights and you know, this and to all of the nastiness that goes on around the way that like the mainstream world talks about sex workers, like we have to be United, we have to work together. And so getting to know these girls has just been an incredible experience. Like again, I, I just want to go hang out with them like, wow.

1 (25m 50s):
When the live shows start again, you certainly will have that opportunity at, at some of the events. There’s a couple in a couple in Romania and there’s one in Columbia and yeah, you should definitely get the, you should definitely get the guys that I’m live to send you there. We are hoping are you listening center to Romania, to Columbia

3 (26m 15s):
And yeah, we’ve brought

2 (26m 18s):
It up with them that we really want to go. My mother is terrified. She’s like a thousand percent sure I’m going to get taken, which is so funny because like I’ve tried to get sex trafficked before and they’ve returned to me every single time. No one is interested. I know, I know it’s, it’s a hard knock life for a logical ho, but yeah, we’re really hoping that we can go do this live just because I want the world to see this too. Like, I really want people to get, to see what I’ve gotten to see, not just in the podcast, but like on video, like live, like, I really want people to get to understand, like these are women that are smart and capable and hardworking and are passionate about what they do.

2 (27m 1s):
Well, you can do some

1 (27m 2s):
Remote stuff. You know, I planned to do it when the show started up again, I planned to do some remote interviews. It’ll give me a, some people that I wouldn’t normally be able to get. Oh. And by the way, Russian hookers peeing on your back that’s that’s, that’s pricing

2 (27m 18s):
Your bag always in your bag. Stripper bag, that’s happened to a couple of my stripper friends that they pissed off their own girl at the club and she peed in their bag. It never happened to me. I got a glass of water dumped in mine. Once I was

1 (27m 32s):
Going to say peeing on a peeing on a guy’s back. That costs man. That’s expensive. So what advice do you have for aspiring cam models and other adult content creators?

2 (27m 45s):
It’s a, it’s a, it’s so funny because I know I wrote this question, but I literally just was talking to my best friend from high school earlier today. And he wants to get into online content, not like porn, but he wants to start posting like snowboarding videos and stuff. And he called and was like, how do you he’s like, I know this is your job. Like how do you do this? And so I walked him all through it, but my biggest tips are like, you don’t need to spend a thousand, like millions of dollars. Don’t do that. Like, you don’t need crazy equipment. You need like your phone, a couple of lights. So don’t buy into that because I totally did. When I was starting go at your own pace, figure out what you like, figure out who you are.

2 (28m 28s):
And like research things like marketing and branding, keep your content consistent and, and make it fun. Don’t put a ton of pressure on yourself. It’s a grind. It takes years. I’ve been on only fans since 2017. And I did not make enough money per month to pay my rent until November, 2019 was the first time that I made enough money. I made like $1,500 that month. And that was the first time I’d made that much. And I make much more now obviously through the pandemic and through, you know, shifting my focus to that. But it’s a grind. It takes a really long time. Like you are not a failure if you’re not in the 1% overnight, like you just have to put in the work, figure out who you are, who you should collaborate with, where you’re going to fit and just work at it.

2 (29m 19s):
It’s a job like anything else. It’s the hours you put into it, the love you put into it and the passion you put into it.

3 (29m 26s):
Okay. Now I want to ask

1 (29m 29s):
You about your comedy career with the podcast and your only fans work. Do you really have much time for it and how active

2 (29m 36s):
Are you? I have no time for anything, but I make time for everything. So prior to the pandemic, I was doing probably five or six mikes a week and performing at the comedy store here in Los Angeles, I’ve gotten some really incredible opportunities to open for really big comics that have just been amazing and wonderful. So I’ve, I’ve gotten really lucky in terms of that, especially within like the LA podcast scene to get to do kind of those rounds. It’s been good for my online content and also my comedy career, but it’s what I’m really passionate about. I had just started to go on the road at the beginning of 2020 before all this happened.

2 (30m 18s):
I’m really hopeful that I will get to do that again. Soon. I have a show coming up, my first road show in over a year and a couple of months I’m going up to, or a couple of months, couple of weeks, I’m going up to big bear to go do a show with some of my friends, which will be very fun. And I just, I obviously adore standup. I love everything about it. And it’s yeah, it’s hard. I mean, I think, I think it’s harder than porn and I think porn is pretty hard, but like it’s rough. I mean, it can be humiliating and Digger. Like I joke that I used to do hardcore porn, but it just wasn’t degrading enough for me. So I got into stand up comedy and stuff.

1 (30m 56s):
So you weren’t, it wasn’t degrading. Nipsey went to work for kink.

2 (31m 2s):
I asked them to hit me harder. You’re not allowed to eat shit on the internet. You can in comedy.

1 (31m 8s):
Yeah. Well, if kink and if kinks not rough enough, then you’re in trouble. Okay. I’m going to ask you a question today. You’re probably would tell me that you never ask a comedian, but I’m going to ask it anyway. We ready.

3 (31m 24s):
Tell me a joke.

2 (31m 27s):
Do you think that Salman Rushdie was mad that he had to write the entire satanic verses in order to get a fatwa declared against him? When all Mia Khalifa had to do is suck Dick in a hijab because I would be mad probably that was like one of the first jokes I ever wrote was in my very first standup set that I ever did. And I was so proud of that joke. And like I got off stage and someone was like, that jokes really elitist. And I was like, you know, I can’t fucking help if you don’t know who Salomon, right? Like, I can’t help the fight. You didn’t go to college if you don’t know who she is. And if you don’t know who me and Khalifa is, or if your boyfriend who you’re with at the show, doesn’t know who me and Khalifa is, he’s lying.

2 (32m 12s):
So there you go. It tells you everything you need to know about the audience right away. It’s a great opener. And you,

1 (32m 16s):
Do you talk about porn in your, in your comedy?

2 (32m 20s):
Absolutely. Yeah. It’s I mean, I, I really,

1 (32m 24s):
I would get you to get the eye, the guy’s attention right away.

2 (32m 27s):
It’s one of those things, like I really try to, from the get-go, like, I didn’t want to be pigeon-holed as like a comic that can only talk about one thing. So I, when I first started my entire set about porn, because porn is so funny and like you said, people, their ears perk up. Like people are fascinated by it. They want to hear about it. So when I first started, I did so many jokes like that. And then, you know, I really got very serious about it and was like, okay, this is a part of my identity. It’s a part of my life. I don’t want to hide it. I’m never going to be like, don’t talk about it or don’t mention that I did it. But at the same time, I want to be able to do social commentary and talk about my dating life or by parents or whatever on stage as well.

2 (33m 10s):
And so, you know, I try to like mix it up with other stuff, but I definitely come back to it a lot. And if I feel like I’m losing the audience, it’s a really easy thing to throw out there and be like, by the way, you can see my Bumble on the internet. So if you don’t think this is funny, at least you can. I see,

1 (33m 29s):
Okay. You go to, you mentioned dating. How does I don’t this might be on also on the list of questions not to ask, but how does performing and I do mean adult performing affect your dating

2 (33m 41s):
Life. I do want to be clear. I’m not a PR, like I did ask that question for other people. Cause I care really deeply about the way the sex workers are portrayed, but like, they’re like no questions. I won’t answer. Like literally, like I just, I’m a very open book about almost everything. Like I am happy to talk about things and you know, but I, I know that not everyone else’s. So it was more focused on that. I will say, I think dating and I, I do a joke about this as well that like dating in standup, I think is real, is harder than dating in porn, mean like dating and porn is just like agreeing to like work a little bit of extra overtime for no pay.

2 (34m 21s):
Right?

3 (34m 23s):
Like sucks. But if you, I love that. Thank you.

2 (34m 30s):
Whereas like dating in comedy is like, I, I have a joke about that too, where I’m like, I went through a phase where I would only date mediocre comics because they know how to choke. And I wrote that joke on a really specific comic who really did not like it, but that joke was about him. And, but yeah, I mean, it’s hard. I didn’t date. I’ve been single since I was 22, 23, since I got into porn, basically I never dated anyone while I was in porn. It just wasn’t like, it wasn’t my focus. And I did end up like in a, kind of a long distance relationship. The last year I was in porn and it was like, I had just like met someone that really kind of changed my life and changed my perspective that I really fell for.

2 (35m 19s):
And it was one of the things that started me, like the gears in my head turning of, okay, we’re going to do something else at some point. And I really admire, I know a lot of sex workers that are in very happy relationships or happy, monogamous relationships. I’m not capable of that. Turns out. I, I couldn’t do it. Like it became, I mean, I would cry when I was going to work and not because they didn’t want to go to work or cause they didn’t like my job, but just, I really didn’t want to fuck anyone else. And that was so hard for me. But it also, I think was so good for

3 (35m 53s):
Me. That’s a w yeah, that, that’s,

1 (35m 56s):
That’s a problem if you’re, if you’re doing adult because

3 (35m 59s):
You know, then yeah, I understand.

2 (36m 2s):
It just started the gears turning of being like, okay, like I am going to do something else. And, and that was right when I started getting into standup as well. And so initially I had planned like 20, 20, I was gonna phase out like through the year and then COVID happens. So it’s about everything up, but I am dating someone right now, which is really cool. Yeah. Another former sex worker and she’s amazing and yeah, and we’re not monogamous, but very honest with each other. And I just feel really loved and really seen. And, and that’s really wonderful. So I feel really like,

1 (36m 36s):
That’s beautiful now, what do you think the future of porn and online sex work looks like?

2 (36m 44s):
Oh my God, I wrote this question. This is such a hard question to answer. I have like such empathy for all of the people I interview now turns out, I ask really hard questions. There you go. I really think that this past year, and I know there’s been a lot of discussion, the scores around only fans and porn and porn hub and everything that’s been going on this year. I love the idea of having like more like bespoke porn like that you really buy directly from the creator, whether it’s on only fans or any other platform where you support them individually for my brand, that works really well.

2 (37m 27s):
So I’m really lucky for that. And so I like that a lot. I think we’re really having more serious conversations about labor and especially women’s labor through the pandemic. Like if we look at like a job like net job losses in the United States in December, a hundred percent of job losses were women. And to summarize that crazy, it was in the New York times, obviously fucking crazy. So we’re really starting to see more people that maybe in the past would have been like, I would never do porn. I would never do sex work that are now on only fans. And I, you know, obviously you want women to have as many options as they want for what kind of labor that they do.

2 (38m 8s):
But I think a lot of people are starting to realize that like, Hey, it really is the girl next door it’s okay for women to be publicly sexual in a consensual environment with people that are routine like it’s, that is okay. And I kind of had joked even when I first got into porn, cause like I went to college, I have like two degrees. And when I first got into porn, a lot of people were like, you’re throwing your life away. What the fuck is wrong with you? And I was like, give it 10 years. Every single person’s are going to be on the internet. And I’m like, not even four years later, I feel so vindicated in that prediction is that we’re I really think that we’re starting to have a, a greater cultural discourse around what porn is, what it can be and who it can benefit because you know, like I said earlier, it’s one of the only professions where it has a very low barrier of entry.

2 (39m 4s):
Like you need an iPhone and an internet connection, right? Like you don’t need to have all of these things that we associate with being really successful in like generational wealth. You don’t have to have those kinds of connections. So you can really make a very comfortable living from your phone. That’s huge for women. Right. So I, I love that. I think that’s fantastic. I w whenever I talk to people that want to get into sex work, or that are curious about it, I just say, you know, it’s, it is a job. Like anything else, it’s a unique job. It’s a very difficult job, but it can be a really rewarding job. And I also think that too, like just the ways we talk about labor, right?

2 (39m 46s):
Like I, a big part of why I got into porn was cause I didn’t want to work 80 hours a week. Right. I didn’t my friends, the guy I got out of school with, you know, that went and got these incredible internships in San Francisco, New York and blah, blah, blah. I mean, they were working 80 hours a week for $20 an hour and just getting absolutely bombed every weekend because they were miserable. And I didn’t want that to be my life. And I understand, you know, especially in your twenties, when you’re young and you can travel and you have the energy to go do things, you don’t have kids, you don’t have those responsibilities. Like I wanted to enjoy my twenties. And I really think I did a pretty good job at that.

2 (40m 25s):
Obviously,

1 (40m 27s):
Obviously. And they’re, they’re far from over, how did you transition from the adult industry into mainstream comedy and podcasting

2 (40m 38s):
By being really stubborn and not shutting up until people in the citizens? No, I just, I kind of took what I had and I, I just took stock of what I was doing. And when I started doing standup and everything and being like, okay, you know, like I want to do this. And I, I never went into it with the attitude of like, and I kind of learned this from porn, especially too. Like I never went into it. The attitude of like, I don’t deserve to be here. Like, I, I really, I got a lot of, a lot of self-confidence from doing porn. I think it’s hard not to. Right. You’re in this environment all the time where people are telling you, you’re so hot and you’re so beautiful. You’re so great. And it’s hard not to like fluff your own ego a little bit, but for me, I really needed that because I did not have high self-esteem when I was younger.

2 (41m 26s):
I did not feel that way about myself. And so for me, like getting into porn really was like, okay, if I could do this year. And I mean, I moved to LA, like I look back on it. I’m like, oh my God. If I knew myself three years ago, moving to LA, I would’ve been like, don’t do. And I’m so glad it worked out as well as it did. I, I would’ve worn myself off of it. I’m glad I wasn’t there to do that to myself. But like, well, my favorite, not my favorite place, but that’s okay. I love it. I get why people don’t love it. I really do think people are going to talk about LA in like 20, 20 or 2021, the way that they talked about like New York in the seventies where it’s like, it was disgusting and there’s hobo piss everywhere, but it was gritty and it was raw and it was real.

2 (42m 10s):
And you couldn’t have had it back then. You know what I mean? But no, I mean, I, I just went into it and I like said what I thought and I worked hard and I made those connections. I mean, I think another big thing about porn that people don’t really talk about. Like, you can build up a huge online following and have all of these followers on Twitter, Instagram, PornHub, whatever. You really build a name for yourself. And I I’m good friends with Carter Cruz. Who’s another performer. Who’s also a DJ. And she, she and I talk about this all the time where she’s like, when I built the brand of Carter Cruz, I built it to be I’m this fucking dope ass chick who can do anything.

2 (42m 55s):
Not I’m part of her is a porn star. And I I’m, mine was the same mentality where I was like, I’m Kate Kennedy, I’m fucking rad. Like I can do whatever. And I think having that bigger mindset where you can do porn, you can do sex work, you can do adult work. And you also want to leave room to do other things in your life that you want to do. Cause the most successful people that I see in the porn industry are not people that just do porn, right. There are people that have other side ventures, whether it’s backend production within the industry, whether it’s, I know people that own clothing, boutiques and soap companies and all this random other stuff and do comedy in seven.

2 (43m 38s):
And those are the people that I see later being very happy, very successful, very fulfilled.

1 (43m 46s):
That brings up. That brings up a question you live in LA. So, you know, obviously the question would come up. Do you have interest in mainstream film work?

2 (43m 58s):
Hey, just joined central casting and yeah. Cause one of my friends hit me up and was like, he wrote three legged dog. Right. And I was like, yeah, he’s like, there’s a casting call for a three legged dog and an owner. So I like submitted squeegee and I, and I don’t think we got a call back. I know it’s okay. I don’t really, I, I really want to be a writer. I write a lot and I would really love to be a writer on a show like a sit-com, especially like adult animation. I always kind of joke like, like something like big would be like right up my alley. I love it all animation. I love south park and family guy and everything been a huge fan of that since I was very young.

2 (44m 40s):
So, and that’s a great thing about comedy to an LA and especially being around the comedy store. Is that like the it’s very generational. Right? So like my friends right now, my good close friends in LA are like the next people that are going to come up that are starting to open for like bill Burr and are going on the road with, you know, whoever. And, and that’s really cool. And so, you know, that like people that hire for those shows, they hire their friends. So it’s like, okay, like I want to be in a writer’s room for something like that. And I’m actually in a writer’s room right now. So it’s exciting. Yeah. So I mean, that’s what I want to do. I don’t have a lot of ambitions to be in front of the camera as like an actress.

2 (45m 22s):
I kind of joked. I always thought it was pretty bad acting even in porn, which is saying something because although I will say there are incredible actors and actresses isn’t born. I was not one of them. I’m definitely more of a writer. I love standup. Cause I just, I kind of joked to him. Like I can really only play myself or like version someplace else. I love it. I love

1 (45m 43s):
It. Well, you know, Hey, you may be right now surrounded by the next people that will be on SNL and shows like

2 (45m 50s):
That. Actually one of my friends just got SNL last summer. It was really exciting. Yeah. Punky Johnson. She got SNL and it was really cool. I mean, like I only met her a couple of times at the store, but she, yeah, we all had, we took a big picture with her and had her name up on the marquee and it was really exciting. It’s just so cool to get to like be around people like that. They get to go on to do these incredible things. Like you’re so excited for them. Yeah. Huge. So

1 (46m 19s):
What do people get wrong about your job that you wish they understood?

2 (46m 24s):
Okay. I asked this question to all of the girls in the show too, cause I think that’s so good. I think the biggest thing people get wrong is how much, not just creativity goes into it, but how much a drive has to go into it. Like it’s fucking hard to film content when you’re exhausted and you don’t feel sexy and you’ve gained a couple of pounds and you’re pale and you have the hair of like the gay little brother of one of the Basie rollers, which I do right now. I’ve been cutting my own hair for a year. I have not gotten more sober while I do it or better at doing it.

2 (47m 6s):
Yeah. It’s, it’s not great. It’s hard. It’s really hard to like consistently be coming up with like new ideas for content. How you’re really a one man operation. Right? Like my whole only fence of like, I have to create right. Shoot, edit, like style it and then like put it up by like, and sell it. Like that’s an enormous amount of work. Like I, when I was in college, I worked at an advertising firm for a couple of years and I ended up like running their internship program and I worked really hard, but like we had a staff of 30 people that were creating less content on a weekly basis than I create alone

3 (47m 51s):
Now. Yeah. No wonder you do so well there.

2 (47m 55s):
So like it’s I know you didn’t hire me after college. My life would have gone in a very different direction. I’m glad now in retrospect I’m glad, but yeah. I mean it’s, it really is hours. I have like five different calendars. Right? I have to write everything down. I am constantly jotting down ideas like, and also just understanding that like, cause you can get really caught up in it too. Right? It’s a job that you can do any time. You’re your own boss. And I joke that I’m an absolutely fucking terrible boss. I’m the worst boss I’ve ever had. And I used to work for this little Chinese woman that hit me. If she saw me using my phone, I worked in bridal for a while.

2 (48m 35s):
I was in college and if she saw me like texting, she would just smack me and I’d be like, you can’t do that to your employer. Like I don’t mean to be insensitive, but this is America. Like you cannot do that. That’s really not cool. And then I

4 (48m 51s):
Quit getting the visual ratios, like four

2 (48m 54s):
11. She was like teeny tiny. And then I finally quit. And then like two weeks later, I’m not giving, I’m not shitting you two weeks later, her son drowned. I know. And he was like 15, it was terrible. It’s a terrible, it’s really sad. But like how awkward of a sympathy card is that right? Yeah. Like I’m so sorry that you’re. And also he was definitely her favorite child. Like she was very clear, but she liked him better than the other. I need a Chinese son, man. That’s that’s traffic. It was very tragic. But it is like, you have to, like, I really build in days for myself where I’m like, you have to take the day off.

2 (49m 35s):
You have to relax. You have to not work. Like you have to close the door on the office, whatever, because it, you put an enormous amount of pressure on yourself and you’re always too late, constantly inundated with all of this. All of the people that you follow on Twitter on Instagram, whatever, like your coworkers, colleagues that are, is doing it. And you can get in a mindset of feeling like I’m not doing enough. I’m not good enough, et cetera, et cetera. And it’s so hard to break out of that. And so I really just try to be so kind to myself all the time, because it’s a hard job

3 (50m 12s):
You got to.

1 (50m 14s):
Well, okay. This has been absolutely delightful. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I really hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

2 (50m 24s):
Me too. Thank you so much for having me and anyone listening. Please go listen to our podcast. It’s cam girl Chronicles presented by I’m live and you can find it@camgirlpod.com.

0 (50m 36s):
What broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy and then establishing what your budget is next. It’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult site broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can also act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site. Other places to look are boards like X biz.net and <inaudible> dot com. But to be completely honest, unless what you’re looking for is a really low end property.

0 (51m 16s):
You’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course you could contact site owners yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living. It’s a major hassle, and it can be really hard to even find out who owns the site. Almost all adults sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar. So when you send them an email, it will be to an anonymous address. And in most cases, the emails aren’t even returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out, we’ll talk about this subject more next week.

0 (51m 55s):
And next week we’ll be talking to sex tech expert, Nina Siani. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Kate Kennedy. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
his is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with porn starlet Vicky Vette.

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1 (2m 46s):
My guest today, Dan, and I’ll say, broker talk has adult star and entrepreneur Vicky vet Vicki. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Thanks for having me. Hey, it’s always good to have you Vicky. Okay. Now Vicki was born in Norway and moved to Canada as a child. She started her journey and adult in 2003, after winning hustlers beaver hunt at the ripe young age of 38. And she still doesn’t look a day over 30. By the time the winning layout was shot. She was already 39, the oldest beaver to ever win it. Now, prior to that, she was in the corporate world. Everything from bookkeeper to general manager and controller, as she describes it, I never really fit into normal jobs because I led a double life prudish, small town conservative by day, raging swinger.

1 (3m 37s):
At night, when she went beaver hunt, she was offered film roles and the rest, as they say is history. She went on to star and over 130 movies and was lucky enough to be nominated for best new starlet and to win an AVN award for best teas right off the bat right away. She started her own official site after she learned some basic web mastering skills. In 2006, she decided to focus on online adult entertainment. She took a gamble and stop making DVDs so she could spend more time with the site. And then obviously turned out to be a great move. Considering where DVDs are today for a few months, fans thought she had retired until they discovered she was producing her own content for the internet and releasing it herself.

1 (4m 20s):
The online world accepted her brand of goofy reality porn and the website flourished. Her fans started to call themselves the vet nation army or VNA. She started to ask some of the hottest girls in the biz to join her in the VNA. Thus, the VNA girls were born VNA started in 20 2009 when she added sunny lane, Shondra, Fey, and Sarah J how that rhymes after adding girls like Nikki Benz, Puma, suede, and Julie, and things really took off. When it got to 12 sites, she nicknamed the girls, the dirty dozen. Now there are 30 to 40 sites and 60 live girls.

1 (5m 1s):
It’s better than dead ones. Vicky has won a number of awards, including the hall of fame by AVN and web store of the year. Twice by ex-business side is one best porn star website, and best solo site, twice, or list of awards this as long as encyclopedia Britannica. So we can’t list them all. Let’s just say Vicky’s been nominated for and won eight ton of awards. So Vicky, that’s all we have time for. Sorry. You don’t, you don’t do many interviews at all. Why did you say yes to me?

2 (5m 35s):
Because we had such a nice lunch together back in Dresden, Germany when we were at X is in Berlin and you seem like a nice person. So I’m actually, I’m actually really shy. Believe it or not. I don’t really like giving interviews.

1 (5m 54s):
It’s a hard one. That’s a hard one to believe. Yeah. We sat right across from each other and it was delightful. Yes. Was you and I talked the whole time.

2 (6m 3s):
Yeah. And you’re a talker

1 (6m 6s):
Who me? Nah, come on. Nah, never, never, never. Okay. So how often do you cam lately?

2 (6m 15s):
More than I like to, I find Cammy is really hard. You have to be, you know, someone’s mistress, lover, friends, you know, psychiatrist. Sure. I mean, you know, you never know what you’re going to get. You know, it’s like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get. I mean, it could be anything from upscale routes to domination, to, you know, they want you to be their teacher, their secretary. I mean, you just never know, but I, I don’t cam on any of the networks, I just do my one hour a week on my own network being alive.

2 (6m 58s):
And the rest is just private Skype shows with, with fans.

1 (7m 2s):
Do you know how many sites you guys have now? 30 to 40? You said,

2 (7m 7s):
Just go look@vnagirls.com. Cause it does. It changes. Sometimes. Sometimes the girls leave for a little while and you know, they might think, oh, the grass is greener somewhere else. And then they come back or they just retire for a while. They just take time off and they, you know, they just, they come and go. So

1 (7m 26s):
How do you like kind of being the, the ringleader, the house mother or whatever it is for all these, all these porn stars.

2 (7m 38s):
I actually love it. You know, we’re, we’re a team. We work together the way the V and a live system works. I don’t know if you totally understand it. There’s not actually any money on the system. You don’t get paid for doing cam shows. It’s only girls who have subscription based membership sites and every girl is supposed to do one hour a week

1 (8m 2s):
Supposed to do right,

2 (8m 4s):
Right. Into what we call our cam ring. So it’s like an ongoing live content trade all the time. So every girl that’s in the network has a feed to their site. So a lot of the girls, I’m not their webmaster. We have girls like Daisy, Dustin, and lay love Kelly, cabana, Chelsie, double D all these girls that I’m not their webmaster. I don’t run their sites. I don’t get any money from their sites, but they cam on our network and they get the feeds so they can get, you know, 30, 40, 50 hours a week of live content for their members. So they get a nice mix of, you know, they get Sarah, Jay, they get Julia. And you know, you get teens, you get MILFs, you get penthouse pets, you get BBWs.

2 (8m 50s):
Sometimes we have some, some training girls on, on the site. It, it depends. And so you had a nice mix of everything. And so if you’re a solo girl, that’s great because you know, you’re competing, you’re one solo site is competing against naughty America and browsers with all their content in different sites. So it kind of puts you into that same ballpark. And we have 17,000 hours plus of archives that people can watch. So they get hooked up to that immediately. And then we have a members forum, which is pretty active also. So you get a lot out of it.

1 (9m 26s):
Yeah, I do. I do I get the impression when you said they’re supposed to do that? Not all of them do it. No.

2 (9m 33s):
And I used to be really tough about it. You know, if you didn’t do your schedule shows, I would kick you out of the network. In the beginning, I was kicking people out. I was really overzealous about it, but you know, in my old age of softened up a lot and you know, things have changed now, girls are making more money on only fans than they are on their websites. So I can’t be that enforcer that I used to be.

1 (9m 60s):
Should I ask that? You said your, you said your old age, you

2 (10m 3s):
Don’t do your shows. It’s going to show in your membership sales, you know, so it’s kind of a self-correcting system. If you don’t, if you’re not where you’re supposed to be, when you say you’re going to be there, it’s going to come back on you. So I don’t need to, I don’t, I don’t need to be that heavy because it fixes itself.

1 (10m 20s):
Well, that’s good. You said at your old age, should I ask how old you are?

2 (10m 24s):
I’m 55. My God.

1 (10m 26s):
You look wonderful. Thank

2 (10m 28s):
You. Especially for being so late at night.

1 (10m 32s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, you know, I saw, I saw Dolly Parton recently and I can’t believe she’s 75. Of course. I know. I started to my God, my God, she’s a Juul. Sure.

2 (10m 48s):
With her money, she can afford the best of every single procedure. Okay. I

1 (10m 52s):
Hope so. I would hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 75, my God, she’s still, still, it looks like she did 30 years ago, but 40 years ago, but that’s, that’s awesome. Yes. Plastic surgery is a wonderful thing. So tell us about the new cam system and why it’s so special.

2 (11m 11s):
I absolutely love it. We have audio for the members. So the models video is huge, obviously. And then we have a row across the bottom where I think what you, depending on the size of your monitor, obviously, but I have a 32 inch monitor so I can fit, I think, easily 10 or 12 cams across the bottom. I think we can go up to 20 members that can get on cam. And so there’ll be sliders where you can slide back and forth to see them all. And I can turn on their audio and they have an audio switch on their end to where they, they have to also allow their own audio. Right. And they can turn the audio of other members on and off as well.

2 (11m 53s):
So it’s quite fascinating. So we really get to know each other really well. And you know, my, I have had members who joined my website back in, when did I start my website? 2004, I think 2005. It started getting bigger. Yeah. I’ve had members that have stayed with me the whole time. They’ve been members for 14, 15 years, 16 years. Some of them. Yeah. So a lot of them have become really good friends. And we now refer to it like, cheers, you know, the place where everybody knows your name and everyone’s glad you came literally. And so we actually have a lot of female members now, too.

2 (12m 37s):
And they get on cam also sometimes they’ll get topless. We’ve had couples get on cam and the guy will give the girl a blow job right on cam. So I’ll just sit back and relax and watch the show.

1 (12m 49s):
Do you mean the girl will get, you mean, the girl would give the guy a blow drum?

2 (12m 53s):
Yeah. Oh no. You said

1 (12m 55s):
The opposite. I was going to say, well, that’d be, that’d be interesting. Yeah. So have you ever heard anything in the audio that I just want to hear?

2 (13m 6s):
Well, no, just on, on Sunday I was doing myself with a Hitachi and one of the girls was doing herself with a Hitachi at the same time and she was hollering and you know, it was such a turn on to be doing it together with everybody watching. And then she dropped the Hitachi right next to the microphone though, to her cam. And it was like, it’s like, it killed art. Like,

1 (13m 33s):
Yeah. That’ll, that’ll blow the old, that’ll blow the old eardrums out for sure.

2 (13m 38s):
Started thing. I mean, it’s, it’s a real community. I mean, you can join other websites and just, you know, randomly kind of generically download porn. But when you join the VNA, it’s different. You know, people do become friends. We actually had people meet in our cameras and on our member’s forum and then go meet outside in person. I think, you know, the woman was from Texas and the guy was from Montreal or something like that. And they actually met and dated for a long time and became a couple for a couple of years. So things like that happen or they come see us all at a convention where we’re all doing together and they all come hang out and we go out for dinner, we’ve gone bowling with all of the members we’ve gone on bicycle rides, rollerblading, you know, just things like that.

2 (14m 29s):
And so we really do not, we went out and sang karaoke one night with all the members after a convention.

1 (14m 35s):
Sounds like, sounds like the Vienna, the VNA social club.

2 (14m 41s):
Yeah. It really is. That’s how we try to make it. And you have to nowadays, I mean, there’s so much competition, but I mean, we’ve been doing that since day one. That’s how we started. That’s how we branded ourselves and made.

1 (14m 52s):
Yeah, well, that’s dare to be different. I always say now worked so far, obviously with COVID we haven’t been able to see each other for a while, which is really sad. Are how much are you looking forward to in person conventions? Again,

2 (15m 8s):
Be honest, a little while before. COVID my last convention that I went to was exotica New Jersey. And I had a really terrible experience. Now I’m really touchy, feely with my members. I mean, I go to extreme lengths to make sure that they get really good pictures. I mean, they’re paying money for these pictures. They want to show them to their friends. So, you know, I’ll take their hands and put them on my boobs. I’ll bend over and tell them to grab my hair and act like they’re having sex with me. And you know, or I’ll bin them over and act like I’m doing them. Or, you know, I, I do all this crazy stuff. And so I’m really nice to people. And this one guy kept on trying to put his finger up my JJ during, during the picture.

2 (15m 54s):
And I took his hand and put it back around my waist and I said, please don’t do that. And then we smiled for the camera and he went again, you know, I slapped his hand down and I S I said, look, you know, I’m just going to cancel this picture. Forget about, okay. Okay. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. So then we smile for the picture get, and does he need to do it again and got his finger right inside my panties right up my BJJ, it hurt. I was furious. I almost started crying because I just, I can’t even describe the feelings that was just overwhelming. And I screamed at him and told him to get out of my booth. And then of course people came running and chased them away.

2 (16m 36s):
And then I kind of stormed off and went to the restaurant and I’m like, I’m not doing this shit anymore. I’m done. I’m set up, you know, took a couple hours off, cool. Cooled off and went back to my booth. But that really changed my attitude because I never talked to me before

1 (16m 53s):
Traumatic. That’s really traumatic. I, I, I’m sorry. I gave you credit for not running him off the first time he tried it and maybe that’s and maybe, and maybe he in retrospect, that’s what you should have done. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, so maybe no more, no more fan shows.

2 (17m 12s):
No, I miss them now. I’ve pulled off. I’m over it. I’m okay. I’ll just probably be a little bit more careful and just maybe have a little bit more security around me in case it happens again.

1 (17m 23s):
It’s a good idea. Have a, have a, have a big formal, former football player that can flatten the guy. That would be what I would do. Find somebody who played linebacker at Ohio state or something like that. And that’ll take care of the problem. I don’t think anybody will mess with you. How about B2B shows? Yeah. I love them. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Looking forward

2 (17m 44s):
To, I mean, that’s where I make people like you.

3 (17m 46s):
Yeah. I miss my family. I miss my family

1 (17m 50s):
And the people in this industry are definitely my family. So it’s, it’s sad. It’s definitely a loss because I do enjoy that. I’m hoping for Prague in, in September, they’ve got one scheduled for July. Hi. I’d like to think that’s going to happen, but I okay. Well, they

2 (18m 7s):
Say by the end of may, everybody, at least in the U S everybody who wants a vaccine,

1 (18m 12s):
But not Europe, Europe, Europe’s way behind. They just started. Yeah. I mean, we’re recording this in beginning of March and they’re just starting vaccinations in Thailand. So they’re way behind. And I don’t even know if I want the vaccine. They have hair. So anyway, well, they got the AstraZeneca and they’ve got the one from China, which you’d have to pay me a million dollars to take, and I still might not take it. So anyway, there you go. I assume I should

2 (18m 50s):
Still get the vaccine, even though I had COVID.

1 (18m 53s):
Yes. Oh, you did? Yeah. How was that?

2 (18m 59s):
We were in Paris when all of this started last March a year ago.

1 (19m 5s):
I was in Arizona

2 (19m 7s):
At the Madonna concert. Oh, wow. With, with about 4,000 Italians. So chances of not getting it, where is it?

1 (19m 18s):
Italy? Yeah. Italy was the first place that really, really had a problem outside of China.

2 (19m 25s):
Well, we went to see Madonna at this theater. It was, so it was horribly packed. I mean, he could have moved. People were just like shoulder to shoulder in there and it was hot and sticky and, but the show was amazing. Oh,

1 (19m 41s):
Was it the first time you saw her? Yes. Yeah. I haven’t, I haven’t seen it. She comes right

2 (19m 46s):
Out in the audience and sits down with people. She’ll grab your beer and take a swig of it and talks to people. So she got COVID too.

1 (19m 57s):
Did she? And, and, and, and did you, I mean, was it, did you have it severely, did you, how was it

2 (20m 5s):
Friday? No, sorry. It was Wednesday. I was in bed. It was like two o’clock. I had just gone to sleep. Yeah. I was in Ireland at that time because we were moving around and all of a sudden my phone started going crazy. Everybody that I know in the USA started texting me, Hey, you got to come home right now. Donald Trump just made this decree that if you’re not home by Friday the 13th at midnight, you might not get back in this country. So he created this great big panic. So we had to, we had to give up sleep that

1 (20m 38s):
Night. He was good. He was, he was really good at that, by the way,

2 (20m 44s):
Sit on the phone all night long with Virgin, whoever British airways, try and get tickets to come back, which was nearly impossible because everybody was doing it. So the tickets were thousands of dollars. So we were in somewhere three hours, south of Dublin. So the next day we drove back to Dublin, got a same day ticket back to London, slept at the airport in London. The next day I got another same day ticket to come home on a plane that was crowded to the hilt. And people were just coughing all over us and you know, it was horrible. So I got home and I hadn’t slept for a couple of days. And I thought I just had jet lag. So I just, you know, took it easy and stayed in bed.

2 (21m 24s):
I just had severe muscle aches. Nothing else? Really? No fever, no cough, nothing just muscling.

1 (21m 31s):
Good. Good, good, good, good. You were one of the lucky ones. So what’s a, what’s a typical day like for you.

2 (21m 39s):
I get up in the morning and I go through about a hundred emails and then I go on my only fans and I go through about 200 messages over there. Try to sort out the important ones. Then I grabbed my dogs and go for a good run. Nice. And come back, eat, edit the videos that I shot the day before, update the websites. We have. We have a crew of people that work for us in Mexico. They actually edit video and update all the websites. So I check in with them. They also do uploading for us to all the tubes. We have another guy.

2 (22m 21s):
Well, we actually have two people in the Tampa area that worked for us. So check in with them. I have a programmer in Holland that does stuff for me, check in with him, make sure the cam system is working check in with the guy that does the archive, you know, so it’s just a lot of just babysitting everything and plus doing my own stuff. It’s, it’s getting harder and harder because I don’t know anymore my model and my a webmaster and my manager, like, you know, I still edit my own videos. What am I? I’m just like everything. I’m a little bit of everything.

1 (22m 56s):
Well, it sounds like you’ve got a well-oiled machine there. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s quite an operation you’ve got.

2 (23m 3s):
Yeah. And we’ve always kind of been outsiders, you know, we’ve never really been in the LA clinic because we’re in Florida before that we were in Atlanta, Georgia. So I’ve never really been kind of the in crowd, I guess, kind of like an island. You know, we do everything in house until it got too big and then we started hiring it out, but not to the typical people, but finally, after all this time, I’m with mojo host and I have Conrad from NEC bunny, if you know him. So he’s the one that did this amazing cam system for us. So

1 (23m 39s):
He’s very good. He’s very good as mojo host. No doubt, no doubt about it. Oh, and by the way, you, you pronounced Florida different than you did in your email.

2 (23m 50s):
I said Florida. Yeah. That’s

1 (23m 51s):
Better. That’s better. Okay. Much. Very good. Very good. How do you feel about PornHub?

2 (23m 59s):
I was in this business before PornHub and if they’re ever gone, I’ll probably still be here after, but you know, you have to play the cards that you’re dealt and if it was just me, I might do things differently, but because I’m responsible for the paychecks of a whole bunch of other girls, I have to make sure that everybody makes money in every single possible way. So, you know, you got to dance with the devil. Right.

1 (24m 29s):
Okay. So I guess, I guess your, I guess your feelings about it, isn’t a them and other tubes. Isn’t exactly positive. Well,

2 (24m 38s):
We’re actually making a lot of money off of the other tubes. Like way more. Yeah.

1 (24m 45s):
Why, why, why? Way more than, than PornHub. No, they’re big. I don’t,

2 (24m 50s):
I don’t. Yeah, but you know, we make way more from X hamster and X videos

1 (24m 59s):
Or has never been big for us. Yeah. That’s interesting. Not

2 (25m 3s):
Sure why, but since they got rid of all the stolen porn, our website sales on all the sites have gone up and all of the, all of the affiliate sales from PornHub and even from the other tubes, all the fully sales have gone up as well. So that’s been good for us. It’s

1 (25m 22s):
Amazing what it took to finally have that happen. But it’s a, it’s a wonderful thing for the industry. And I think in the long run, it’ll be a wonderful thing for them too. I think they, I think that that whole thing not necessarily positive for the industry because of the negative publicity, but at the same time, I think that PornHub is going to come out ahead and the whole industry will come out ahead because a lot of the unauthorized, all the unauthorized content on a way, which is, which is great,

2 (25m 52s):
But you know, if only it had been like that the whole time, it would have been

1 (25m 56s):
Great. Yup. Yup. Yup. Well that, wasn’t their original business model, unfortunately. And yeah. Dance with the devil, I guess that’s the best way to put it. Huh. Now do you think there will always be pay sites? Something, some people say it’s a thing. Yeah.

2 (26m 15s):
Yes. Because it’s your, it’s your base, you know, so many other platforms just come and go. I mean, I’m sure if you sit here and think for a minute, you can come up with a lot of names of platforms that have gone under, right. Yeah. And you know, for a while, Snapchat was huge, right. And now Snapchat is kind of gone down and then it’s only fans and then it’s something else. And you know, your, your website is going to always be there. And plus you can put all your links to everything on your website. Of course the affiliates hate that because you know, people go to your site and then they jump to the other social media, but we have to be fair to the girls and give them proper exposure and keep their star as high as possible everywhere.

2 (26m 59s):
But yeah, people always come back to this place. And a lot of times people will join only fans. And they’ll find it’s getting really expensive, paying $10 for every single video. So then they’ll join your site too. And they jumped back and forth. And then you have the super fans that follow you everywhere. There’ll be on, they’ll buy your mini vids, they’ll buy your loyal fans. They’ll buy your only fans will buy your website. They’ll, they’ll go everywhere that you are.

1 (27m 22s):
Yeah. You talked about the affiliates and the, and the, you know, the referred to the traffic leaks involved with the, with linking to other things it’s necessary. And they’re not going to find a site now that doesn’t do that. Right. So it can be frustrated, but they’ll have to be frustrated with the industry because it’s the whole industry.

2 (27m 44s):
Exactly. And you just have to be everywhere. You have to be, you have to try everything and see which one works.

1 (27m 50s):
Indeed. Indeed. So how is the VNA different from other networks?

2 (27m 57s):
It’s a community. It’s not just a place where you go to download porn. It’s actually a community. We have a requests thread in the forum. Cool. So guys can post, I would love to see you doing, you know, whatever. And you know, lo and behold, a week or two later, there it is on the site it’s done for them. We use, we use their name sometimes in the videos. Yeah. It’s, it’s personal. It’s really personal. And I, I know the dog’s names of my members.

1 (28m 30s):
Yeah. That’s neat. Yeah. Any time you make things personal and you make things interactive, it’s going to have a lot more chance of being successful as opposed to just porn on a site.

2 (28m 46s):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We do a good, we do a really good job of that. I think. Sorry. It’s always been our strength. Yeah.

1 (28m 53s):
Well, and yeah. And it sounds like your members,

2 (28m 55s):
We’re still in the game, even with all this competition, crazy amount of competition from only fans and everywhere

1 (29m 3s):
Else. Yeah. But there’s no competition to what you do from what I see. I think you guys are one of a kind, I’m surprised more. Haven’t tried to emulate you so good for you, you know? Yeah. Good for you. It’s all. It’s, it’s all Vicky. I mean, you’re, you’re the one that started it and you’ve put it all together. So you deserve a lot of credit, you know, you’re one of a kind, there’s no two ways about it. Now. How do you feel about Twitter going to a new pay model?

2 (29m 32s):
I think it’s a good thing. If, if the end result is that we don’t have to post all of our nude stuff on Twitter, then it’s a good thing. I think all porn should be behind paywall. Yeah. I mean, that’s how it should be. And the only reason why I have to post, I try not to post pink on Twitter. Only, only topless, but even in our website tours, you know, we have explicit content in our tours. All you have to do is click the button that says I’m over 18. And then you get to see pink. And I don’t think that’s correct, but we don’t have a choice because even if we stopped doing it here in the states, they’re still going to do it in all the other countries.

2 (30m 13s):
So if we want to compete, we don’t have a choice. We have to do it. But if somehow we could get at where everything is behind a paywall, I think that would be, be a good thing because 12 and 13 year old boys are looking at Twitter and seeing, you know, anal prolapse videos and the stuff they put out there for free it’s, it’s traumatic, Twitter needs. They shouldn’t be exposed

1 (30m 38s):
To that. Yeah. Twitter, Twitter needs to definitely moderate that because that’s, you know, that that should not be happening.

2 (30m 46s):
So if they go the same as Instagram, I’m totally good with that. I think it’s going to only be better for business.

1 (30m 53s):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For sure.

2 (30m 55s):
You honestly want to see the pink go join my site.

1 (30m 58s):
Yeah, definitely. But not if you’re 12 or 13,

2 (31m 2s):
By the way, as

1 (31m 5s):
An aside, as an aside, they, they tried to Institute age verification in Europe and so far they’ve failed. Although I, I think eventually it’s going to happen and I also expect it to happen in the states. What are your feelings about

2 (31m 19s):
If everybody would do it together, it would be a good thing, but that’s the problem there isn’t, there’s no unity. Hm.

1 (31m 28s):
Yeah. I think, I think it’s something the industry should, you should do before it gets put on us, because if we do it, then it’s going to be a lot less traumatic and we won’t have governments telling us how to.

2 (31m 43s):
Yeah. But how do you get all the different countries to do it together?

1 (31m 47s):
That’s a good question. I mean, how

2 (31m 48s):
Do you talk to Brazil and Germany and, you know,

1 (31m 52s):
Get them to talk to him. Yeah, yeah. That

2 (31m 55s):
Would be nice. We can’t even get, you know, people in our own neighborhood to talk to each other. Yeah. But yeah, but

1 (32m 2s):
You’re yeah, but you’re, you’re in Florida. How does it Howard? How is it to live in Florida? By the way? I mean, I, you know, it seems like every

2 (32m 15s):
Week there’s no COVID here.

1 (32m 17s):
Yeah. Right? Yeah. No, Texas either since they’ve gotten rid of all their rules, again, we’re recording this in early March, so I’m sure the rules will be back on we by the time this, the strops, but that’s just the way things go. But I mean, it seems like every strange story comes out of Florida,

2 (32m 37s):
But there’s a reason for that. Yes. There’s, there’s a lot of crazy people in Florida, but there’s a lot of crazy people in every state, but Florida has this open policy where anything that happens, it goes up on the internet that night, like somehow an hour later doesn’t acknowledge. So there’s all these. Huh. And it doesn’t elsewhere. No it doesn’t. Yeah. So there’s, you know, these, all these websites forget the name of them, but there’s all these websites, but every they’re, they’re checking every hour, you know, Florida what happened because it’s publicly available like that. So they have fodder for their, you know, their clickbait or you know, all their stuff that they post, it’s not available for other, I think you really, you really

1 (33m 25s):
Think that’s the only thing I don’t know. Okay. Okay. All right. If you all know, there’s crazy people in Thailand, trust me and lots of them. Lots of them too. But I just, I just think there seems to be a different level of crazy in Florida. Just my

2 (33m 43s):
People have sex with their tailpipe of their car.

1 (33m 47s):
Yes. Yes. Things like that. Things like

2 (33m 49s):
That. I heard a man found.

1 (33m 53s):
Yeah, just Google, Google, Florida, man. You’re going to be, you’re going to be a, you’re going to be reading all day. I love it. I love it. So how does it feel being a veteran in this industry 18 years now? I mean, that’s, that’s really,

2 (34m 11s):
Whoever knew that would happen. It was supposed to be part time. Yeah. No, it was, it was just for fun. It was, I just wanted to be a little bit adventurous, crazy, have some fun and it just turned into this. So I just went with it. I mean, I was in building with my second husband and that started making more money than, than the building business. So I was like, well, this is more fun.

1 (34m 41s):
We’re in construction.

2 (34m 42s):
Yeah. We used to build log homes, custom log homes. Oh cool. Yeah. And then that kind of took a, a nosedive, you know, 2007, 2008. So it was perfect timing. Just switched over to this full time.

1 (34m 57s):
And, and what are your observations as to adult then an adult? No,

2 (35m 3s):
It’s completely different. You know, when I started right, we had store signings. You know, you did a movie, they made a poster of you, beautiful poster. You would have a box cover shoot. You would have beautiful hair and makeup. Oh, danny.com. The days of catered food and just spending all day there and they treat you like a queen pay so much money and it was so great. You know, you get to shoot anything you want. Yeah. And so they would make a poster of you. They would hang it up in the, in the stores, you would have store signings where people would come and shower you with money.

2 (35m 46s):
You would go on feature dancing tours in the clubs and people just throw money at you. You know, you would do radio interviews once in a while you had a press person telling you what to say, how to answer questions, maybe telling you how to dress, helping you out, you know, telling you what looks good on you now you’re just on your own. You are, you are the front line. You’re on Twitter. And if you say something stupid, oh boy.

1 (36m 17s):
And there’s a lot of that. There’s a lot of that.

2 (36m 20s):
It’s completely different, but it is better in a lot of ways too, because yes, we’re more in control, but you know, women are more in control now, but still not enough. I mean, if we, if we look at all the companies, you know, chatter, bait streaming my free cams, video secrets, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all the tube sites, women don’t own any of these companies. Right? It’s all male dominated. It’s still male dominated. I don’t care what anybody tells you. They keep trying to sell this, that women are in charge, but it’s, we’re getting better. We’re climbing the corporate ranks, but we’re not there yet. But

1 (36m 60s):
It doesn’t don’t platforms like, like only fans and platforms like that. The copycats, the other ones that are like that, don’t those kind of puts you in more control.

2 (37m 16s):
Yes, absolutely. That’s what I’m saying. We’re going in the right direction.

1 (37m 20s):
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And there are some females CEOs. I know Alison Alison’s had kink and you know, and there are some others, so yeah. Yeah. It’s getting better. It’s bedding getting better. So how did you get started in the industry

2 (37m 40s):
With beaver hunt? I was sitting at home, flipping through a hustler, lusting over some of the women. And I looked at my husband and said, do you think she’s high? You think I should send my pitcher in? Look at this contest. He’s like, yes, send it in, send it in. I’ll take the pictures. So we sent them in all of a sudden, you know, I was a semifinalist. They called me and he said, are you serious? Do you really want to do? I’m like, yeah. So they flew me out to LA, I got $1,500. They put us up in a hotel, paid both for our airfare, came out there and did a photo shoot. It was such a piece of cake. I’m like, wow, this is like taking candy from a baby.

2 (38m 22s):
And while I was there, they introduced me to, I can’t remember the girl’s name now, but they said, would you do a girl, girl photo layout with her? And I said, yes, absolutely. You know? So, so then that was nice layout in, was it Sherry magazine or one of those then, you know, the contest goes on for awhile, the readers and fans vote. So then I won the grand prize. Wow. So they brought us out again, this time was $5,000 prize. Got the cover of the magazine. And by then my phone was ringing off the hook w from LA direct wanting to, for me to start doing movies.

2 (39m 3s):
So yeah, so it was so easy because we were already swingers anyways. So it was, you know, no big deal,

1 (39m 11s):
Big leap. So, so what were you started with hustler? What were your feelings about Larry Flint passing

2 (39m 19s):
Tragic. He was a legend and he was so nice to me. As, as I told you, I was the oldest beaver they ever had. And so when I went in his office for him to give me the check, you know, I talked to him for a little bit and I said, you know, do you think I’m too old to be starting por? And he said, no, he talked to me a bit. And he said, I think that you can do anything you want, anything you decide to do in this business, you can do. So he was really nice to me.

1 (39m 49s):
That must have been quite a vote of confidence coming from him.

2 (39m 52s):
It was. Yeah, exactly.

1 (39m 55s):
So what’s the secret of staying in the business so long.

2 (39m 58s):
Don’t screw anybody over. Just always be fair and equal to everybody. Just do the right thing. Don’t get a bad reputation. It’s really as simple as that work hard. Yeah. I don’t know. I’ve had this network for this long and we’ve never had a problem with any talent ever. Like you would never find anybody out there gossiping about us or, or saying anything bad because we’re, we’re just really, really fair. Every decision that we ever make is based on what’s going to be better for the girls.

1 (40m 33s):
Yeah. I can tell that because you’ve referred to it many times. Yeah. And not screwing anybody over. I I’m a hundred percent on that, man, because I, I refuse to do that and word travels so fast. Oh my God. It travels fast. Especially with social social media. Now

2 (40m 52s):
You actually feel bad now that I was such a Hitler back in the day when I first started the, the network, you will do your show. I thought you were from Sweden. Not Germany. I’m actually parked German.

1 (41m 10s):
Oh, there you go. Okay. That

2 (41m 13s):
Was half an hour a week. And I’m not Sweden. My mother was Norwegian and my father was half German and half Norwegian.

1 (41m 21s):
I got what I said a half hour ago. Okay. So, because if it’s late at night for you, it’s early in the morning for me. So how long are you going to keep doing this?

2 (41m 33s):
I don’t. As long as people still want to see me naked, I guess somebody still wants to pay for me to take my clothes off. Who am I to argue?

1 (41m 43s):
That’s right. That’s right. And I don’t know. I look

2 (41m 47s):
At you. Do you know, do, may do ma, D E a U X, M a. I still can’t say her name properly. I should, but I bet she is. I think, oh, I celebrated her 60th birthday with her. Wow. Right before COVID last February. I think it was or January or something, whatever, in, in Mexico. So she must be 61 now 62 even. And she looks amazing. She has this flat, flat belly. She looks better than all the 20 and 30 year olds.

1 (42m 23s):
Yeah. I guess, I guess, you know, being over 30, you have to, you have to really watch what you eat and exercise, which you said you run, which is great.

2 (42m 37s):
Yeah. Yeah. But she keeps threatening to retire all the time. Every year. She says, this is my last year. This is my last year, eight years now.

1 (42m 48s):
And there’s sh and there she is. So you, you obviously take good care of yourself, which is important.

2 (42m 54s):
Yeah, I try. Yeah. I like talking about a lot though.

1 (42m 58s):
It shows, it shows, oh, dog shaking. I’ve had that on my interviews before too. We have four. Do you ever get tired of interacting with fans? Once

2 (43m 9s):
In awhile, I have to take a break for a day or two. So I will put my phone away and just not look at my email and just, you know, do civilian things. I’m actually involved in a lot of, I take some classes and I’m involved in a lot of other extracurricular activities outside of porn. So sometimes you just need to take a mental break from it. And then after about two days you start missing it like crazy. And then you want to jump back right back in, because I sex a lot on my phone with guys and I don’t know how, how other girls are, but when I’m sexting, I really am turned on. Like I really am into it.

2 (43m 49s):
I’m not faking it. I’m really actually having fun. There’s only, there’s a limit to how much you can do that. Right before it does start to kind of get old and get on your nerves. And you’re like, if I see one more, a Dick pic scream. So like doing it myself, you know, most girls, they have assistance that when you think you’re sexting with them, it’s really not them. I mean, I have, I know girls that it’s actually their mother.

1 (44m 22s):
Yeah. I was going to say, unlike a lot of them, you’re not 300 pounds.

2 (44m 28s):
No, I know a girl that she had her grandmother working time for her answering the, the sexting and sending out her pictures.

1 (44m 37s):
Oh my God. Oh my God.

2 (44m 40s):
Yeah. It’s really me.

1 (44m 41s):
I’m sure granting was hot.

2 (44m 44s):
And that’s why some of those guys get irritated at me too. They’ll be, they’ll be texting me at 4:00 AM and there’ll be mad by 5:00 AM. They’re like, where are you? Why aren’t you answering me? 6:00 AM. Oh, well, fuck you, bitch. You can’t answer my texts. I’m like, hello, I’m sleeping. You know? Cause they’re used to other accounts where someone’s going to always be answering them because they have them on shifts. They have different people doing eight hour shifts, always taking care of their accounts so they can get the maximum amount of money out of it. But you’re never actually talking to the object of your desire. Yeah.

1 (45m 15s):
That’s, that’s true. It’s kind of like in business, you know, I get it. I get emails two, three in the morning, you know, and they’re frantically wanting to talk to me and it’s like, well, unless you’re, unless you’re in bed with me, you’re not going to talk to me. So there you go. So I originally met you through ex-business dot net posting. How do you feel about industry boards in general?

2 (45m 40s):
I always feel guilty that I’m not on the boards as much as they want me to be. I feel like I’m, I’m failing them somehow, but you know, if you’re on a board all day, having these huge conversations, you can’t be actually working. I mean, how do you have time to be doing your work, right. Unless you’re at a point in your career where you have everything organized and everybody else doing all the work, you know, I still physically have a lot of work to do. Like I said, I edit videos. I put them up and I’m sexting, I’m shooting, you know? Right. I’m working out. I mean, the only time I’m not working usually is I’m either exercising, walking the dogs or eating.

2 (46m 24s):
Other than that, if I’m awake, I’m working. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I just don’t have time to post on the boards and then people always make me feel guilty that I’m not contributing. Yeah. And then there’s, then there’s boards where people get into all these political fights and you start insulting each other. And then you’re just like, I don’t want to read this.

1 (46m 47s):
Yeah. That’s been, that’s been, that’s been an issue. That’s definitely been an issue that I, I have problems with. And I’ve, I’ve been an advocate of a separate political board. So if people want to argue about Donald Trump, they can do it elsewhere because when it comes to to business, I’d rather not talk about it. I’d rather not talk about him anyway. But when it comes to business, I’d rather not talk about it. That’s that’s for Facebook who keeps banning me for wishing people happy birthday. But anyway, I’ve

2 (47m 19s):
Had six Facebook accounts closed. I’ve given up. I haven’t.

1 (47m 23s):
Yeah. But yeah. But yeah, but Vicki, this isn’t about business. I got Heidi. Got it. I got a 30 day for wishing a friend happy birthday. Cause I kind of told a joke that made it sound like hate speech. So he said, so, so they said it’s hate speech. And then I got another one for a meme that I reposted from Facebook before my 30 day ban. I got another 30 day ban. Finally shut the account. Now as yesterday, my business account, it says your access is limited and I can’t even like a post. So yeah, I’m about ready to give up. I’m just about ready to give up. So, and

2 (48m 3s):
The thing is they banned me all the time and they leave all the imposters. Yeah, of course. If you go look on Facebook, you’ll probably find about six, eight, 10 Vicki vets and none of them

1 (48m 13s):
And lots and lots of Russian trolls. So they never ban. So would you ever sell VNA? Hint, hint, hint.

2 (48m 27s):
Oh boy. Wow. I don’t know. Not, not any time soon. I don’t think I’m done yet. And of course, if I ever was to do something like that, I mean, how do you S what’s it, what’s it worth? How do you sell it? I

1 (48m 42s):
Mean, we can talk offline. We can talk. We can talk. Yeah, we can talk offline, but we can talk offline about it. It would be complicated, but it’s certainly something we could come to a, you have to get

2 (48m 53s):
Every girl’s agreement that, you know, you’re going to keep this together as one unit and sell it and everyone’s going to have to be happy with the, with the terms.

1 (49m 4s):
Interesting. That’d be interesting. Well, yeah, yeah. It would be a, it would be complicated, but Hey, I’ve dealt with complicated deals before. Yeah.

2 (49m 15s):
But, but not any time soon anyway. Cause I don’t think I’m quite done yet.

1 (49m 21s):
I can tell, I can tell the passion. The passion is still there. My dare. The passion is still there.

2 (49m 28s):
No, I’m pretty happy. I think it’s probably the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. Honestly. I

1 (49m 33s):
Can tell, I can tell it shows. So what’s the best advice you can give to someone just starting out in the industry,

2 (49m 41s):
Besides on your own URL, don’t do things that you don’t want to do. I don’t know how many girls have seen that. Got pushed into doing anal when they didn’t want to. If you don’t do it at home, don’t do it on camera. Right? I shot one time with this girl that she was drinking vodka at eight o’clock in the morning on our Shane, because it was the only way that she could do it, you know? And then that stuff just messes with your head later on and try every platform. It’s we have so much more power. Now when I was working for companies, you had no say over anything.

2 (50m 21s):
I mean, I was, I think one of the lucky ones, because I could have a no list and say who I didn’t want to work with, but a lot of the newer girls coming in, they just put you with whoever and you don’t have a say about it. I mean, I didn’t want to do ATM. And they tried to force me to do that. And you know, it just, wasn’t my thing. They, they give you a toy with no batteries in it. And they’re like faking orgasm. I’m like, why would I want to fake an orgasm? Put the fucking batteries in and don’t have a real one. What one of you got much better? I mean, and they, and they go, no, you’re an actress. Act like, no, go to the store and get me the batteries.

1 (51m 2s):
Give me the Energizer bunny. Dammit.

2 (51m 5s):
Yeah. But that’s the kind of thing you have no control over anything. So now, you know, th that’s why I basically stopped in 2006. I only shot for myself for my own site. So I could shoot with who I wanted, what I wanted when I wanted, how I wanted, you know, just have control and own everything. So I’m still making money now off of content that I shot in 2006, seven, eight, nine, it’s all up on the tubes and you know, everything’s making money, whereas everyone else, that’s not going to happen. You’re you’re, you’re like a day labor. You just get paid one time for the scene and that’s it. You don’t see another dime off of it.

2 (51m 46s):
Right? Right. Advice own as much as you can yourself and put it out there on every avenue, multi-purpose everything and try every platform. And some are going to take off in the summer. Not figure it out.

1 (52m 3s):
Makes sense. Well, Vicky, this was delightful. I’d really like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we have a chance to do it again really soon. My broker tip today is part, one of how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a campsite, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site or something else. If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want? And what niche? There are literally hundreds of niches and many sub-niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears are mature, bareback, Asian, Latino, amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification.

1 (52m 54s):
Plus there’s hardcore shocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms straight has even more sub niches. I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site or I want to buy a pay site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like man, and want to make money on a straight site. That’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays a part, what is your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning.

1 (53m 36s):
Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a cam site with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’ll need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to comedian podcast, hostess and performer, Cape Kennedy.

1 (54m 19s):
nd next week we’ll be talking to podcast hostess, comedian and adult star Kate Kennedy.

0 (1h 6m 55s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest Vicky Vette. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Andreas Bischoff of the TES Affiliate Conferences.

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Now here’s our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker, we’re proud to list for sale. A network of two mainstream flirt chat sites. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and New Zealand, both their mainstream flirt chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis.

1 (1m 26s):
They have a loyal customer base of 27,000 plus real members with many customers still active from 2017. Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with very low overhead and a proven ROI of 900% on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing. These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep of the sites requires very little time and most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 plus strong member database.

1 (2m 7s):
Many great markets are yet on tap for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA. Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites now for only 484,000 euros. Now time for this week’s interview my guest today on a don’t say it broker tuck his entry ass bitch off of the T E S affiliate conferences. Andrea, thanks for being with us today, Anna, don’t say broker talk. Thank you very much for having me, Bruce. It’s a pleasure now, and it’s been a long time coming. My friend, I’ve been begging you to get on my show now, Andrea, this is one of the two organizers of the T S affiliate conferences and the Island gathering TES affiliate conferences, formally the European summit.

1 (2m 57s):
And before that I’ve got a good memory. The Barcelona summit

2 (3m 1s):
Were founded in 2009 with the event bringing together professionals from the online entertainment industry, e-commerce financial gaming, gambling, dating Forex, binary options, health nutraceuticals, and many other markets for an intensive three-day networking event. Their next event is their first hybrid live and virtual event in Maribela Spain, July 3rd through the fifth. Now from the outset, a T E S was intent on creating a great networking experience for its attendees and delegates because in our high tech world, it’s still of great importance that excellent relationships be developed and maintained as these are the cornerstones of building a successful business.

2 (3m 49s):
And let me just say that Andreas and Walter run the premier conferences in our industry now and Dre us, how were the preparations coming for the upcoming hybrid T S affiliate conference

3 (4m 2s):
Coming along actually pretty, pretty well, obviously not everything depends this time on, on us. Yes. So that’s why you might’ve noticed that we’ve opened a virtual registration already on first off offer June. So people can already register for the hybrid part for the virtual part of the hybrid conference. Yes. Which they are doing very, very much in the first five days we had 500 registration, which is a new record, new Bonnie record. Yeah. So, so if we would keep that up, we would come up to 5,000 attendees in June. So it’s big numbers where we’re talking.

3 (4m 41s):
Obviously people are taking us off of, up on our offer regarding the, the live part of the hybrid conference. Actually, we’re waiting for news from the Spanish government today. Today’s the 9th of May of, for the listeners to know. And this is a big day in Spain until two day in 9th of May. Spain has been in a, in a lockdown. So today is the government will announce what happens tomorrow. So Walter and I are, yeah, just waiting for the news to, to drop in because that will obviously have an impact on what we can do and what we can not do.

3 (5m 22s):
And so basically we expect by next week to the Spanish government to tell us exactly how many entrance tickets we’re allowed to, to sell, which is the main thing currently as of today, we are already allowed to host an outdoor garden conference. Could if it would happen today, it would be only with 150 people. But again, we expect that number to go up by next week since the overall development in Europe is finally a very, very positive one was a lot of people getting vaccinated as these days and even more in the, in June.

3 (6m 2s):
So by July, whoever wants to attend ha has had a chance to, to get vaccinated or to, to probably attend with a, was a valid PCR test or something similar. Again, those rules we’ll find out from the Andrew Lewis and from the Spanish government this week. Unfortunately this interviews coming a week too early for, for this new spot we’ll make, we’ll make, we’ll make sure to get the word out, any help. And therefore we will open life registration on 1st of June, 2021 at 8:30 AM Madrid time. I say that again, that is 8:30 AM Madrid time on the 1st of June, why I repeat this is very important because I do not expect that we will have enough entrance tickets for everyone who wants to attend.

3 (6m 56s):
Maybe the Spanish government allows us to have 300 attendees or 400 or 500 or a thousand. But what as ever does that number will be that we’re allowed to sell on entrance to goods. I’m sure it’s smaller than the amount of people who want to attempt did it because people are desperate to get out of the house today. Everyone me included. I’m so, so happy to get out of the house finally. So the demand will be huge and the offer will be small. So that means set your alarm June 1st, 8:30 AM, Madrid time first come, first serve. So you snooze you lose. I am fairly sure we will not have enough tickets for every one.

3 (7m 38s):
So be aware of that. It’s a warning. Okay.

2 (7m 45s):
Now, now given the current situation, I mean, it sounds at this point, like you do think you’re gonna, you’re gonna still have a live portion, right?

3 (7m 55s):
I’m growing more confident every day. I mean, if you would have asked me the same question two weeks ago, four weeks ago, I probably would have given you a rather negative outlook. But as of today, Walter and I are very, very confident that we’ll be alive portion against things are going very well. Find it even in Europe, is that great news. I mean, in, in, in Germany that just have 1.1 million vaccines gone out per day. That’s huge numbers. There, there, the second provider opening up here, more, more vaccines will be pushed out.

3 (8m 35s):
It’s going better by the day in Germany. Now anyone can get a vaccine any age doesn’t matter anymore. So anyone sinks are really, really picking up the North of Germany, for example, has, has opened up now with its hotels and its beaches and everything. So the, the, the, the good news it’s pouring in every, every day where again, two, three, two, three weeks only go, it was all bad news. And I would really, really sad. We’re not sure, but as of today, as that, it’s only good news coming in every day. And we got another two to two months to go.

3 (9m 17s):
So by July things will look, look quite, quite, quite well. And also the latest news, if you might’ve read it is Spain will open to all countries in the world in June. So that’s another great, great news. So wherever you’re from in the world, you can from June on enter the country. And that means that there’s no, no reason why you wouldn’t be able to attend our conference at the beginning of, of July. And by the way, by the way that in the intro, you sat at three til five, actually it’s a second Tilth.

2 (9m 51s):
Second to the fifth. Sorry about that. Yes, yes, yes. I appreciate that. Now, why did you decide to host a hybrid conference now, considering I know in the past you haven’t been a fan of, of the virtual conferences.

3 (10m 7s):
I’m still not, of course everyone likes life better than, than a hybrid. So our core business will always be hybrid. I mean, we’re, we’re getting out of the pen damn make we’re not out there yet. What we’ve seen due to the, to the loss-making nature of virtual conferences currently, there’s a, there’s a hole in the market, a gap, and of 2020, you will have you’ll remember every week there was a virtual conference going on and we said, why should we go in there if, if there’s a virtual conference every week.

3 (10m 46s):
So the why not lose that money in an overcrowded market. Currently, as you’ve seen, everyone has a chance to lose money and nobody’s doing virtual conferences anymore in our industry. So we figured at the moment we can only host a couple of hundred people in, in <inaudible>. So why not give a couple of thousand people that chance to, to experience that life event from the homes? And we’ll, we’ll see how it pans out is that we will lose a lot of money. And so the plan is still to, to, to host hybrid conference in the future.

3 (11m 28s):
But again, yeah, we, we have to look at its financials and how much, the life events that will then have to subsidize the, the virtual event, but it is also a good, a good, I see it as a marketing tool to get our name out. I mean, it also, for, it’s always been only, let’s say 2000 people, but if we go to the hybrid way, we can have three, four, five, 10,000 people eventually. And some of, some of those lost making virtual people will say, Hey, you, what I’ve seen there, and now I’ve experienced what they’re doing remotely and looks interesting too, to actually be there physically. And then that might be a way that the virtual part actually pays back.

3 (12m 13s):
It’s stepped to the, to the life part. And I, I, I see it as a, as a marketing, it’s a sunk cost and it’s a marketing expense for us.

1 (12m 22s):
Sure, absolutely. Now talk a little bit about the venue of the hybrid T S affiliate conference. What does the preliminary schedule look like? And are there going to be parties?

3 (12m 34s):
The, the venue will be the wonderful five-star hotel resort located in, in mafia. It’s a Don Carlos resort and they have some huge tropical gardens. It’s really, really a beautiful, is that a tropical garden? It’s, it’s wonderful and close to the close to the beach and close to a Nikki beach club. So it’s, it’s, it’s a great location, even though vaccines are being rolled out and everything is going great, we figured people would still not be so comfortable to be inside. And so we, we, according to the experts, there’s basically no chance to close to no chance to infect yourself outdoor.

3 (13m 15s):
So we, we set to keep everyone safe and relaxed. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll do our first outdoor event ever. And my BI has the nice, that’s why we came up with smoke. Maria has the adventure that it it’s one of the driest spots of all of Europe. So it only rains on average two days a month in July. So the chance that we will be effected by rain is very small. So we’re very confident that we can host everything outdoor and yeah, I think it’ll be just nicer. June. July is, is one of the best months in, in my bed’s not too hot.

3 (13m 56s):
And yeah, so we’ll be able to build an ice, chill out a business launch outdoors, and there are people can, can have a cocktail and talk business and walk around to the tropical gardens. And, and yeah, I think it’s a really, really nice and special setting.

1 (14m 14s):
Nice. Now what COVID-19 measures will be taken for the conference,

3 (14m 18s):
That is, again, a question that comes unfortunately, week two earlier, because we will get the, the news, as I said today from the Spanish, government’s quite difficult to say, but I think they will be less restrictive than as of today, as of today outside. I think you would have to wear a mask and to keep a distance that’s all. And if you are seated on a table of up to six people as of today, you would be allowed to take your mask off until July a lot can. So what I just described is let’s say the worst case scenario until July. I, I expect that this restriction might, might become a little bit easier still.

3 (15m 5s):
I, I would recommend to the people to be relaxed. Yeah. Wear a mask, keep your meta 50 distance. And, and then I think we should all be, be, be fine as for the requirement requirements to enter again, we’re waiting that information today. Obviously, if you’re vaccinated, I’m sure you will not have any, any issues. If you do a, a daily test, I’m also fairly sure that that will not be an issue. If that can be a quick test. I don’t know if it has to be a PCR test. I don’t know. So unfortunately the interview comes a week to two early, but I’m sure it will all be a manageable if said everything’s going well.

3 (15m 51s):
And also obviously Spain creates business and, and one student to do the best to, to, to host conference again. But on the other hand, not at any price, I just read that my, my beer is one of the highest certified con cities in the world when it comes to COVID-19 measures protection. So I have to look up the article, but they got two or three certificates of excellence when it comes to managing Covid and, and Corona.

3 (16m 32s):
So your, your, your listeners might want to verify what I just said by just Googling it on, on the internet, but maybe BS one of the, of the, of the cities in the world that is handling <inaudible> grown-up measures the best.

1 (16m 52s):
Great. Now, now traveling during these times can be really challenging. Are you going to be able to provide attendees with a visa invitation letter in order to help them ease their travel plans to, to Maribel engine in July?

3 (17m 7s):
Yes. Yes, of course. Of course currently traveling is not as easy as it used to be. So I’m, I’m sure governments will require extra information. White people must travel and cannot, cannot avoid it, but we’re happy to, as always, we’re happy to, to help our, our clients with whatever we can. So if they need a visa invitation letter that States the reason why is they’re going to Spain of, of course we will provide them with, was that an with any help we can give

1 (17m 40s):
Now, what is the price going to be for a live entrance pass? And what’s the price for a virtual entrance pass

3 (17m 48s):
The price. The for life part will be the same as, as always our standard price of 399 euros per, per person. And again, as, as you know, there’ll be a lot of food included, a lot of drinks included. So people get, get their money’s worth. And obviously a lot of business networking as, as always the virtual tickets are for another week for, for free. So anyone can pick up a virtual ticket for, for free. That’s no reason not to not register. Yeah. That’s basically the pricing. Okay.

2 (18m 24s):
Okay. Now I understand you advise that people should not buy their flights and book their hotel rooms just yet.

3 (18m 32s):
Yeah, of course. Since, as of today, we do not know exactly the measures from the, from the Spanish government. So those we will know in the next couple of days, and again, there will not, I want to stress that there will not be enough entrance tickets for everyone for the life event. So if you buy an hour of flight and you book your hotel room and you sent me an email and say, Hey, I must have a ticket, sorry, it’s not going to work this time. I never understood people that first booked their flight. And first booked the hotel and don’t have an entrance ticket in their hand. So-so could be very good.

2 (19m 9s):
It’s called, it’s called it’s called ass backwards. Enteritis.

3 (19m 15s):
Yeah. And then I’m the bad guy and people say, you must, you must give me an entrance ticket because I already have my hotel and my, my, my, my flight. Nope, no, it does not work this time. So by your entrance tickets, see on June 1st, if you can get one of the few entrance tickets, and if that happens, then book your hotel and then book your, your flight because otherwise you might not get in. And then, okay. Then you might just have a nice vacation,

2 (19m 43s):
Nice vacation in Mirabelle exactly. Across the street from the hotel. So you can wave at everyone,

3 (19m 49s):
Which is not such a bad plan. No,

2 (19m 52s):
Not at all, man. I, you know, if I, if I ended up going to the live portion, which talking to you now, that’s sounding sounding better and better since I’m going to be getting vaccinated starting next week. Hey, you might just see me there, man, but I’ll, I’ll make sure I’ve got an entrance ticket. Of course, you know, me I’ll have a sponsorship, so I’ll have an entrance ticket. And one thing I should mention here on that end, I have only paid for a sponsorship with one show over the years. And that’s the different iterations of TES. Those of the, been the only ones that I have determined that I should be investing in.

2 (20m 34s):
So I don’t even know if you know that Andreas, but first time I invested was a first time I did a sponsorship was way back when I did the massage sponsorship in Prague. When I think it was Prague where you had the real strange hotel that year, how was, how was it different kind of place? And then, you know, over the years I’ve continued as a sponsor because it works. So anyone who’s on the fence about sponsoring do it. These guys do the job right now. You talked about live attendees. How many people in the end do you think are going to join the conference virtually?

3 (21m 15s):
That’s a good question. Obviously. I know. That’s why I asked it. We, we do have an internal bet. So Walter took the number 3000 attendees and put my money on 5,000 attendees. So I, the truth might be somewhere in between, but usually when it comes to those forecasts until now, I think I pretty much won any bet against Walter again, in, in, when it comes to attending numbers. So usually I’m not, not, not wrong often. So, but again, what does that 3000 people, I say 5,000 people and yeah, you will tell me on, on July 2nd with the winners.

2 (22m 2s):
Oh, that’s it. That’s interesting. Okay. Next time I go to the race track. I’m gonna, I’m gonna bring you with me. Okay. So let’s say you really managed to attract 3000 to 5,000 and I wouldn’t bet against you, by the way, to, to your a hybrid T S affiliate conference, how are these people going to be able to network and find each other? And also how are they going to be able to find the live in 10 days?

3 (22m 26s):
That’s a very good point. That’s, what’s also the reason we looked at various platforms to host our virtual, the virtual part of our conference. And we specially looked at the two heavyweights. There are only two in the market, which is hopping as you might know, umbrella. And so there’s no matchmaking function was hopping. So we decided against them Brella on the other hand has a very great networking functionality. So what we did is we first divided all the attendees into, into groups, like for example, at network affiliate program, if the affiliate program affiliates, hosting companies, payment providers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

3 (23m 19s):
So that’s a, that’s a main, main group. And those groups, then we subdivided by vertical. So for example, gaming, gambling, adult dating for ex neutral health, wealth, et cetera. So that will allow the attendees to say exactly, okay, I’m looking for a payment provider for dating, or I’m looking for an affiliate for Nutra, or I’m looking for an ad network that does all verticals. So you can, you can set up your, your request very, very, very detailed this time.

3 (24m 1s):
And then the system will sought the leads by the matches. So let’s say you met with someone five times, then he goes on the top. Then the next guy you match with, let’s say four times goes to the next and, and, and so on. So the more relevant leads will immediate jump on you. And then you only have to click set up a meeting, and then you can set up a meeting with, with your top lead and at your convenience and, and take it from, from there. So it’s, it’s, it’s highly efficient.

2 (24m 38s):
Cool. So people can already network and set up meetings as we speak,

3 (24m 42s):
Unfortunately, not, but only allows us to use the platform two weeks prior. But, but, but, but it also makes, makes sense because you want to have fun. You want to have a certain amount of people networking and beyond the platform at a time. So if we would launch it now, then there’s one guy in Asia and one guy in Latin America and on there, and nothing really happens. So then people get disappointed and say, what is this a is nothing happening here. But if we launch it two weeks prior, show everyone has two weeks to set up their schedule, which is more than, than enough if you’re serious, but then also on the, on you’ll see that there’s action on the, on the platform.

3 (25m 26s):
So there’ll be thousands of people on there at the same time. And then it becomes a lot, lot more interactive and fun if you see the things that are happening in more exciting. But, but yeah, so the rules from Brella, we can open two weeks before the show. And I think that’s plenty of time to get your schedule full of, of meetings. If you only have, if you, if you already have them, pre-arranged in front of you and you only have to click send meeting requests and written in and request, you should be done in a, in a couple of hours.

2 (25m 58s):
Yeah. I agree now with that being said, is this going to be the largest TES affiliate conference ever

3 (26m 5s):
Looking at the current numbers? For sure. I mean, we are with a set of 500 registration the first five days. If we would keep that up, you can make it to the mass. It will be huge numbers. So we’re now a quarter to our record after six, seven days, actually eight, seven days, seven and a half days. So yeah, we still got two months ahead of us. So unless something really, really, really, really terribly strange happens. Yeah. There’s no way that’s not going to be the largest show. We, I mean, we haven’t even started, started putting out paid advertising op, and so yeah, it, it, it will be the largest show for it, for sure.

3 (26m 50s):
No, no, no, no doubt. Sure.

1 (26m 53s):
Now the conference was scheduled for the second through the 5th of July, 2021. Now with the 4th of July being such a huge holiday in the U S do you, did you take this into consideration? And if so, how do you solve the problem?

3 (27m 9s):
To be honest, we did not take into consideration at the beginning. So what’s the huge screw up from what I might find. So, yeah, so that was really bad. But then luckily as always, our, our clients are taking care of us. So our, our clients are watching our backs. So I received an email that said, Hey, Andrea, as you are aware, this 4th of July is a huge holiday. I know it’s a huge holiday. And I know what I mean, water is hot, is half embarrassed. And he knows, I mean, I, I don’t know what, so, so, but long, long story short, we moved the, the, the virtual part of the conference to the second and the 3rd of July, so that it will be on the first two days of the, of the conference.

3 (27m 53s):
So the entire virtual part of the conference will be over by it. 10 o’clock, Los Angeles, time, 10 o’clock in the morning, Los Angeles time on the cert. So by noon on the third, everyone can be starting their long, 4th of July weekend. So yeah. Do work, work the second insert in the morning hours of the U S and then be done by 10:00 AM, Los Angeles time America, lots of people from New York get off a little bit earlier. Right. And then, yeah, your, your, your, your long weekend starts on the third at noon, which I think is fine.

3 (28m 35s):
So even on the cert, you can already party into the force without we’re over by then. So I think it’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s a decent, a decent fix call

1 (28m 45s):
Now, besides a very prominent owner of adult site broker. I can’t think of his name right now. Who else will be speaking at the conference?

3 (28m 54s):
Oh yeah. So many great speakers coming on board it’s it’s it’s, it’s amazing. It’s, it’s, it’s one of the few advantages that virtual has by a life in the past. We always managed to attract good speakers from, from all types of walks, people from the industry, but people also from outside of the industry to bring in knowledge and, and new ideas. But the good thing with virtual is usually when we bring in a, a good speaker, it costs us five digits and more in euros, but it was the virtual part. They can do it.

3 (29m 35s):
That’s no, no, no, no flight costs in involved. There’s no hotel cost involved. There’s no F and D costs involved so we can attract very good speakers with the lower budget. So that’s really one of the few advantages that I see in a live in a virtual event over life events. So the, the amount of, if anyone goes as of today, Tuesday to the schedule, you’ll see that this is the, the strongest schedule we’ve ever had in the past 12 years. By, by far, there, there, there are people like worldwide top 25 email market here is they’re they’re, they’re they’re really, really, I mean, they’re the top SEO experts really, really strong people that usually usually speak only speak at a conference with tens of thousands of attendees.

3 (30m 31s):
And we, we, we attracted them this time. So, so, and again, I mean, it’s only the ninth, 9th of May, as, as we speak, we, we got another two months to add speakers. Our, our, our, our issue will be more that we will not have have enough speaking slots because we’re already nearly, nearly full. And again, we have two months to go, but by quality, this is the best schedule by, by light years that we’ve ever ever offered to, to our attendees and people can, and people can watch it for free.

1 (31m 5s):
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So you’re going to have people from all over the world, as well as speaking and attending. How are you planning to deal with all these different time zones?

3 (31m 18s):
Yeah, that was kind of a challenge, but so I, I figured, yeah, the, the world Europe is kind of in the middle and depending what world map you take, but the one that I use has Europe in the middle. So it goes yeah, right to left from Australia to, to Los Angeles state, basically. So we figured that speakers that are relevant to the Australia, to the Asian and Australian market, or come from there, we, we schedule on the European time of 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock and 12 o’clock. So that allows people from Asia to, to watch those people in on their time zone.

3 (32m 5s):
Then Europeans come in, come on at one o’clock two o’clock, three o’clock. So that’s fine for everyone. And then the American speakers and audience comes on at four o’clock, five o’clock, six o’clock. So that is in the morning hours of the U S but morning, cool morning hours. Not, not middle of the night, so no, nobody has to get up for our virtual event. So, so whatever concerns the U S will be in the, in the, in the normal us morning hours, whatever happens concerns to the, to the, to Asia will be in the normal Asian evening hours.

3 (32m 46s):
And we’ll have a concern to Europe will be in the normal Europe, European afternoon hours. So nobody has to set the alarm to fall out of that, because I have heard that from other conferences now, of course, I mean, that’s,

2 (33m 3s):
I just ended up Scott. I just ended up skipping a bunch of them. Cause it was like, well, wait a minute. Do I really want to get up in the middle of the night for this? And usually the answer was no.

3 (33m 13s):
Yeah, no. I mean, people that are people that love what we do and then what motivated to work with us. But I mean, there’s a limit to what we can ask them.

2 (33m 20s):
Agreed, agreed. Now, now, coming back to what we spoke about at the beginning, isn’t it extremely expensive to host a virtual conference and between the cost of the virtual platform, the live streaming production company, the live chat software and the Q and it for the Q and A’s the live chat moderators, et cetera, this must be really expensive. And it’s also, as far as I know, the first of its kind, how are you and Walter going to manage to not have to take a major loss on the virtual part?

3 (33m 52s):
Honestly speaking, I don’t see things that we will manage. I think we will take a major loss. It’s also something, if we would’ve known that before, maybe we would have thought about it a couple more times because it’s, it’s something where you buy into something. And then later on you realize what, what comes on top. So basically the, the, the platform is, is a, is five digits. So there, I just taught water. Okay. It’s a marketing deck. We pay for, we, we, we lose that money and, and fine. But then once you get started with, with the, with the core platform, which you would sync core platform, core costs suddenly realized now for the live chat, you need to pay extra for the live streaming, which will be in video quality.

3 (34m 47s):
You can go low ball, then it’s free, or you can take real TV, studio, quality money into the hand, and then it’s, then it’s suddenly your lat, a larger costs than, than the platform. So imagine that, and then you have for the game-ification, you need something for, for, for, if you want to have a life TV, quality host for the virtual end, for the, for the life. Part of that, that’s big money. Then obviously if you offer a chat, you, you need a chat moderator. It’s not big money, but it adds up. And no, if you take all of this together, yeah. You’re easily looking 50 to a hundred thousand euros, which I did not expect at the beginning, just for, for a website to use, to have the right, to use the website.

3 (35m 33s):
So, no, it’s, it’s, it’s huge money. And obviously, yeah, I mean, people prefer to spend their life. I mean, it’s nicer to have a live booth in a virtual booth, but we have a couple of people who, who will support us and reduce that loss. But I, if we would, if we will break, even I would be really, really, really shocked. It’s not going to happen. But again, I mean, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a marketing expense. I mean, it keeps our brand out there. So people know that we’re not, that gives us something to talk about.

3 (36m 13s):
Talk about also, as I said, it gives us a, the possibility to tap into what’s possible future markets. So, I mean, it’s a small wet webmaster in, in Asia and in, or a medium webmaster in Asia, in the us or Latin America or Africa or Australia or wherever outside of Europe has to think twice. If he, if he books a flight for, for a thousand or more euros to a conference that he has never heard of a scene. So, but he can always go online for free now and check out what we do then. Yeah. He might say this, they look what they do looks it’s worthwhile.

3 (36m 58s):
I might might want to do that investment.

2 (37m 0s):
Yeah. I tell everybody I talk to in address, literally, I tell you, I talked to a guy today right before you, and I said, you know, you should go to this show and you know, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely a show that, that everyone in the industry should go to. Now. Now, if one of our listeners would like to support you guys in your effort to provide the industry with a solid virtual networking platform, are there still live or virtual sponsorships left? I hope so. Because as I told you, I’m going to do it. And if so, what kind of sponsorships will be available for your hybrid TES affiliate conferences in July, 2021? And we can’t forget September 20, 21.

3 (37m 43s):
Yeah. For the life part. It’s a, again, certain sponsorships obviously depend on, on what we hear back from the Spanish government. And then they lose government as a force. For example, as a foot today, I could not sell a bar sponsorship because bar areas are forbidden. So we would have to find a different solution. So it was, I would probably just walk waiter between the, the business launches and provide you cocktails because you are not allowed to stand in that the bar as of today. Also, we also, we cannot sell huge business launches because as of today, only six people are allowed to, to sit together. So certain things we still have to wait for a week to, to see how it pans out, but other things for the life part we can already offer.

3 (38m 31s):
The, the main thing we offer at the moment is a, is a business launch for, for people outdoors, with nice chill out garden furniture. Because we know as of today, we already are allowed to host groups of six, but we expect things to get better, but to be on the safe side, we just sell things before. So if in the unlikely things that things do go bad, for whatever reason, we still have the, the thing that the government can say, okay, we don’t allow you six anymore. Now we allow you four and we’re still fine. So we, we, we, we take a very conservative stance. They’re smart. That’s, that’s the live part. The virtual part obviously is easier.

3 (39m 13s):
So there will be virtual business launches where people can connect their Twitter account. They use YouTube account, the Instagram account, all, all the social media accounts for, for potential clients to check out. Also, it allows you to upload all type of, of information. So such as PDFs, PowerPoints, videos, images, any, any, anything that, that you have regarding your, your, your, your, your company speech, you can upload a promotional video. You can upload any, any type of digital data you can upload to your, the show business launch.

3 (39m 57s):
And also the business launch we’ll have a live chat function. So if someone comes along, you can pop you a message and say, Hey, can we set up a meeting? And then you can, yeah. Send them as a meeting offer. Also, the good thing is, I mean, you don’t have to be as the vegetables always. You can also just, just, if you’re, if you’re away from your desk, then someone sends a message. Hey, I want to meet you and see was, then you can always say, I’m back in an hour or, or a scheduled meeting with me at my, at my convenience, or I’m sleeping, or I’m sleeping. Yeah. You can, on your check, you can leave a message saying opening hours of my business launches off from whatever eight, until 10:00 AM, Los Angeles time and send people know what’s the best time is to hit your ops there.

3 (40m 50s):
So it’s a, it’s quite, it’s quite, quite good. And apart from that, you have people can, can buy what’s called a breakout room. So they’re, they can be with 50 people of which 12 people can be on screen with audio and video with them. That’s more, yeah. If you want to look sales pitch, then you sit in there and yeah. Everyone can listen to UNF. It’s, it’s very interactive. So since people on, on the, on the video, so they can ask you a question, you can immediately answer them and that’s another option to sponsor. So it’s very interactive in contrary to the, to speak on a stage, you know, stage small presentation.

3 (41m 37s):
But even that we will offer a Q and a session at the end so that people can, can ask you question. And, but again, the break it’s, the breakout rooms are more for, for corporate presentations, more interactive, and that’s another sponsorship. Yep. And then, yeah, the last one is the big one. Yeah. You can become a hat call a headlining sponsor. So that means that what we produce is TV quality. So like any, any TV station, broadcasting station they’ll, you can have video clips played before the speaker goes on the main stage. You can have video clips. Once a speaker is stunned with on the main stage can have a branded frame around the main speaker.

3 (42m 22s):
So that’s, that’s the top notch sponsorship. That’s the only four of those per poor main stage. How much, how much those costs. We priced them at 6,999 euros. But your brand is in all, all of the nine speeches on a, on the main stage. Yes. There’s no, there’s no way that people will, will overlook your, your brand. And obviously, obviously water and I will we’ll do additional sinks for, for, for this group of people. Obviously we’ll, we’ll spread it, spread that on, on social media, we’ll announce it in a newsletter.

3 (43m 4s):
We’ll, we’ll make sure that your investment is, is protected. And it’s always with us after the show, we will not disappear. If someone is not happy with what you paid and what we deliver. Walter and I are also available after the show at all, my clients have my email, my, my phone number, my, and my WhatsApp, my, my Skype, my Facebook messenger, my LinkedIn people, this we’re easy to find. And we usually respond with within 12 hours or less. So for us, it’s the deal is not, not written in stone, right?

3 (43m 44s):
So if they pay, pay that money and later on, they can justify that they didn’t make them money’s worth back or any of our sponsor ever. This goes to all our sponsors. If, if someone does not make his money back and he has a case, we will, we will be there after the show and we’ll solve it. I can give you an example. Don’t want to take too much time with that. But in Prague, in proc, we used to be in a hotel called taco bell. And that, that had a upstairs, the show area and downstairs pizza pizzeria, which we turned into a show floor.

3 (44m 25s):
So, because we didn’t have much space to grow there. So long story short, we, since it was a small hotel on only two levels, that there would be people downstairs, but no, everyone stayed upstairs. Nobody went downstairs. So, so, so it was a bad deal for the people downstairs. So even during the comp conference, on the last day of the conference, I went to all the sponsors downstairs. And I said, to look some your, your, your, your bank data next week, and I’ll refund you a half of your money. Right. And what’s that why I didn’t even complain. I haven’t complained have I?

3 (45m 5s):
And I said, no, you don’t have to complain. Right. It wasn’t fair. So we, we, we, we refund you. It’s a no-brainer and, and, and you see we, Walter, and I love to take your money. We will take your money, but we don’t want it for free. Right. It’s a very, it’s a very, no, but it’s very,

2 (45m 27s):
I remember, I remember years ago and I don’t want to bring up a sore subject, but I remember you had a, you had a show scheduled and the show didn’t end up happening. And a lot of people booked booked flights, and you actually sent an email out to everyone. And I remember this where you offered to refund, people’s airfares. Now I turned you down. Why did I turn you down? Because I have, I have too much respect for what you do. And I realized you lost more money than anybody on the thing. So there was no way I was going to make the pain, you know, pain worse. But I remember you doing that in dress. And that those are the, that’s the kind of business people, you and Walter.

3 (46m 6s):
Oh, we did it. I mean, costs are six digits and dollars. And, and, but, but, but, but again, I mean, that’s just good business sense. I mean, that’s good. It’s good business. It’s good. Exactly. We, we, we paid everyone’s flight. We, we, we lost the money on the test. Even if you had booked a hotel that wasn’t even the ShoreTel, we would refund you half the money you spent. But again, I mean, you lose money with us once and you don’t want it.

2 (46m 38s):
No, you don’t want people to remit. You don’t want people remembering that experience because in the end, in the end, you’re better off taking the financial blown now, then taking a blow to your reputation and turning people off. No, I completely would agree. And that’s, that’s the way you guys roll. And I really appreciate that. Now, now times are obviously unpredictable now, and we’ll kind of along the same lines of what we were talking about. What if someone buys a sponsorship and then isn’t allowed to travel to Spain in the end or even worse? What if there’s a there’s, you know, a, a new wave of COVID-19 are the sponsors going to lose their entire investment?

2 (47m 21s):
I think I know the answer, but I’ll let you answer.

3 (47m 26s):
Yeah, no, I I’ve seen that happened to people at a conference in the past. And I find that quite, quite, quite terrible. No, we’ll, we’ll do it. I mean, first of all, since time’s not unpredictable, as, as you said, we will not charge anyone until 1st of June until a month, really a month before the show, we will not charge anyone. So until then we only take risk-free reservations for sponsorships. So, so no, no risk to you until first off, 1st of June, really? So that’s already good. And 1st of June, the month out, everyone can make more educated decisions.

3 (48m 10s):
What, a month later, everyone not. So I think that’s quite fair.

1 (48m 14s):
Yeah. Yeah. And don’t, and don’t book your don’t book, your, your plane and hotel until, you know, until then.

3 (48m 22s):
Yeah. And then the other thing is obviously then a small time window between 1st of June and the event that, that one month there, our idea is that we will refund you 60% of what you paid us in cash. So let’s say you pay us on hundred. We’ll send you back the 60 and the other 40 are not, are not lost. They just get to credit it to the next conference. So the next time you wonder was also, you, you come, you already got 40 reserved for you. So bottom line, you’re not losing anything, right?

3 (49m 4s):
All your, all your money is still there. We’re not taking any of your money.

1 (49m 10s):
Let’s talk, you know, you mentioned future conferences. Let’s talk about Prague. And I know I’m going a little bit off script here, but I know it’s five months out. And I know there’s a lot of uncertainty at this point, but what’s your best

3 (49m 24s):
Guess on that? I assume things will look really, really good as set since, since a couple of days, I’m, I’m very positive about the future. If a large chunk of the European population will already be vaccinated in June, it it’ll only get better and better and more and more every month after. So by September, I expect us to be able to host the nearly normal conference. Obviously not going to be like our last one in 2019, but it will be fairly, fairly close. I expect us to.

3 (50m 5s):
Yeah,

1 (50m 7s):
I hope so. That’s a great show, man. That’s a great show

3 (50m 10s):
And it’s, we have a huge hotel. So even if, if there might still be social distance in place, which I, I doubt we could still put a lot of people in there. I mean, they’re big capacity. So even if you have to stay up a meter and a half away, and if you have to wear a mask, we can fulfill all of those things easily. It’s a big, big hotel. And so we will be able to host a significant number of live attendees. I’m I’m positive. Okay.

2 (50m 40s):
I’m, I’m planning on it, man. You know, up until recently, it was the only thing on my counter for 2021 outside, outside of being here. The only thing that I, that I said I’m going to do is go to Prague for TES. Other than that, I didn’t care. I really didn’t. Okay. Now, now, if people want to support and sponsor the conference, so who should they come?

3 (51m 4s):
They can contact me. So my email, most people will know it, but it’s a andreas@tsaffiliateconferences.com. And then I’ll get back with them usually 12 hours or less. So again, it’s andreas@tsaffiliateconferences.com. And yeah, we, we get back to you in the 12 hours or less

2 (51m 25s):
Andreas. You get back to me and you keep saying 12 hours. Usually if I contact you, you get back to me in 12 seconds or less. So that’s a, yeah, that’s a, that’s a long time for you now, what else can our listeners do to support Walter and yourself

3 (51m 41s):
As always was the life conference. But also with the virtual people always ask me, what, what can we do? The main things, talk about us, spread to the world, spread the word. That’s really, really the main, main thing people always want to do will be to come up with fancy things. How can we help you speak about us? Not, not nothing else. We, we ask for a post about us on if you had, if you attend our show post about it on, on, on your social media channels. If you like what we do speak about it on your social media panel. Talk to your invite, your business friends, especially this time. Now tickets are free. Tickets are free.

3 (52m 21s):
They’re not going to get any cheaper. So tell people, I mean, especially like, for example, you, you you’re you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re a speaker. I mean, imagine anyone, anyone on the planet can listen to your speech now for free, for free. Why ship? Why shouldn’t you invite your potential clients to check you out for free? So, I mean, yeah, maybe you’re not part of the inner, inner inner circle of what we used to do because we were very European. We were very much dating Donald high-risk, et cetera, but now it’s a new world. I mean, you can be in, in Indonesia kombucha, you can be in wherever and you can be in any industry and you can communicate with anyone.

3 (53m 11s):
And we give you a platform in the middle that pre pre pre sorts you who is there. And if you, if you come in and you see it, I want to have, I don’t know, gaming field yet. And yeah, if you see there, I don’t know, a hundred contexts, you stay on the platform for free, for free business for free. And if you see it, you come in and there’s nobody with that characteristics on the platform you lost one minute and you go and you should also zero a year or so. So why would someone not, not take off, take off this offer? Right?

2 (53m 45s):
Right. No, I agree. I agree. Now, now we’ll all TES affiliate conferences in the future. Have a hybrid conference format. Do you think

3 (53m 54s):
The short answer is yes. The large longer one is unless the financial losses are too over whelming. The good thing is if times go back to normal, we make diff w we have a good, good turnover with a good income with, with the life part. It’s too fine, doing fine. And then water. I just have to agree that we want to earn less. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s just such a disposition. It’s just a Walter. And I saying, we want to, in the end of the year, as a private person, half less in our wallet, so less for our family, less for our kids, less for vacations, it’s it?

3 (54m 41s):
It is that sacrifice that we do for, for the ability for the industry. But again, it is a marketing tool. It allows people to check us out. It gives us worldwide reach and it keeps the brand out there. It all depends how much it hurts. I mean, if we, if we lose a little money, we’ll do it for sure. If we lose a lot of money, we’ll do it. If it becomes completely Gaga, then we will have to have a serious talk because we’re talking about purposely taking a loss. Right. And that obviously any business person that’s a little bit clever would never do that.

2 (55m 25s):
Oh, look, you know, you know what, you know what Andrew asked the way I look at it. I think it’s a loss now for a gain later. I don’t think you would do it. If you don’t think, if you didn’t think it would help you long-term. And I think, like you said, the more people who get acquainted, more people are going to attend the live shows and more people are going to sponsor. And I cannot stress enough to people. Look, I looked at the sponsorship and went, Hmm, really? Okay, should I do this? And then I thought about it more. And I thought, yeah. And I’m going to do this for one simple reason is because the job you guys do and the product you put out needs to be supported.

2 (56m 7s):
And I hope that everyone who sponsors shows or who can sponsor shows does a sponsorship here because they should, okay. And maybe they might look at it and go, okay, it’s a little expensive for virtual sponsorship. I get that. But you know what, it’s worthwhile because sponsoring your shows will help people. And I know that because that’s my experience.

3 (56m 36s):
Yeah. Again, I mean, as I said, if we, if we lose some, okay, but it has also always been our model. We first provide a good product and then we ask, ask money for it. Never the other way around. No, you usually people are very focused on earning money. And so they will say, ah, okay, you pay me this. And that is what you get. And that’s normal in business. It’s very simple. If you want to buy a, buy a car or some shoes or whatever, underwear, doesn’t matter, the guy will say it, put that money on the table and I give you that.

3 (57m 16s):
So we have a very strange way of doing business. We usually say, okay, we give you this. And if it works for you, you will eventually pay us. Well,

2 (57m 28s):
Look how long it took to Amazon to, to make money.

3 (57m 31s):
We’ve always done business the way where we said good things will happen. So if, if, if I do something for you, you don’t have to pay me. It will come back. I mean, if I do something good for you and it makes you money and you’re happy with me, you don’t have to pay me. It will compact. You, you will, you will tell a business friend of yours about us or you, you you’ll make, mention it on a board or on Facebook or wherever, or eventually you’re small and we help you to grow for free. And at some point suddenly you are earning money and you’re like, Oh, that money. Some of it I owe to those people. No, I mean, I will never send you say you owe it to me, but business people will say, why do I have this money?

3 (58m 18s):
Partly it comes from them. And then suddenly people that have grown with us say, Oh yeah. Now I should probably buy a sponsorship. I should make it. Right. And obviously, I mean that we’ll use some bad apples that we’ll just say, Oh, thanks for the free business, a loser. I take it. Ha ha for sure. I mean, you always have a such people, but the far majority of the people out there are good people and they’ll say, Oh wow, you’ve done so much for me. How can I pay you back? And they, it always, what goes around, comes around.

2 (58m 53s):
No, I, I agree with you wholeheartedly, you know, and I’ll give people an example. You know, I recently started a casino site, broker.com and we’re, we’re entering the, the area of, of broker and casinos. And I mentioned this to you and you turned me on to a contact and this guy has been, and I haven’t even told you this. This guy has been of amazing value to me in that space where I knew nobody. And he was your counterpart with, you know, the, the, the casino shows. And it’s that kind of benefit of doing business with you guys that even goes over and beyond the growth that my business has seen from sponsoring your shows and from attending your shows.

2 (59m 40s):
So, no, I, I can’t tell people enough that it’s, it’s well worthwhile to support what you guys do now. What other interesting projects apart from T E S do you have lined up for people listening?

3 (59m 54s):
Yeah. Basically two, one is already existing. It’s not existing. It’s coming back. We, we, we never wanted to do an Island gathering again, but more people keep asking more and more often. So we, we, we decided to bring it back in the original form. So it will be in the, in the Marriott, in, in Curacao. Like it has always when’s it going to be? That is a good question. First, we had a down for November, 2021. So this November, then Covid got really bad.

3 (1h 0m 34s):
And again, as a set, I, my predictions were bad. So we said, okay, we push it to November, 2022. Now suddenly your predictions are looking very, very well. So I will be speaking to the Marriott next week, if we want to push it to back to November, 2021, again, because by then I think life, the, the world will look really good. And I think people will be really ready to have a vacay or a business V vacate on a, on a beautiful Caribbean Island. Yeah, I’m ready.

3 (1h 1m 14s):
Yeah.

2 (1h 1m 14s):
You did it. You did it one year here in Thailand. Actually

3 (1h 1m 18s):
We did, we did one in, we did one. I wish you’d bring it back. We will see. We’ll see. I think we, we, we will bring it back. I mean, w w when we launched it, we had the idea that that was something that you want to do a couple of every couple of years. I mean, such an event is not needed every year. Nobody wants to do it’s all CEOs and company owners, and nobody wants to, they are also families and they don’t want to go away every year. So our idea was to, to do it every couple of years, but then people hit me up and said, Hey, if you don’t do it next year, then the competition will step in.

3 (1h 1m 60s):
You have to do it. And a stupid Mia said, Oh yeah, you have a point. And then we did it every year. And that was where everything went that. So then, because the first one to went out, worked out well, and then it got worse and worse. I think we learned something from it, but now it has been six, seven years that we done one, I would have won the, the time has come, that we can bring it, bring it back again. But after, after that, after that, do we do it every second or third year or every fifth or every 10th year will not, not be a yearly event again, because it’s stupid. I mean, also it’s company owners. It’s the big dogs and they don’t change from year to year.

3 (1h 2m 45s):
I mean, the industry doesn’t change from year to year. It takes two, three, four times, four years for a change to happen that you actually notice. So why meet with the same people every year? It doesn’t make sense. So currently we could say maybe, probably every five years and, and, but then you have different people in five years, the, the, the, the landscape at least has changed. So there’s some value to what we’re doing. And yeah, if in the meantime, the competition wants to step in be my guests, because I know the numbers and the numbers are not as great as you think.

2 (1h 3m 22s):
Well, they won’t do as good of a show. Definitely. Well, Hey, Andrea. So I’d like to thank you again for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon before.

3 (1h 3m 33s):
Yeah. Sounds, sounds good. One, one last thing that I forgot to mention was, yeah, we’re also thinking about maybe, maybe doing something more, more mainstream, also totally separate separate project. So probably less of relevance to your, to your listeners, but I want to throw it out there. Is that because then currently it’s, it has become over the years, a very mixed back, and I’m not sure if everyone is really happy was that so we could pay a P S a little bit more into the high-risk risk, like what the banks would call the high risk market gaming, gambling, dating, whatever the bank would call high risk, and then have a second totally separate new online advertising conference is really just targeted to, to the low-risk.

3 (1h 4m 30s):
It’s a good idea of take, take, take a different, that’s a good idea. So, because if we mix it more and more, I think we, we will alienate our existing clients. The, the, the, the new people are not happy and nobody’s happier. So, so maybe better to do two, two shows, Wells and one show that’s totally, that doesn’t have any, any restructure anymore.

2 (1h 4m 56s):
Sounds good. Well, Andreas, thanks again for being with us. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or trending down

1 (1h 5m 19s):
And how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to three and a half area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time. If the profit is taking a nose, dive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and reviewed traffic are the most valuable tube. Traffic is the least valuable. Is the traffic reliable and sustainable? What is the traffic history?

1 (1h 6m 0s):
In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as to profit and the valuations will, of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website? Is the domain of.com or something else? Dot com is still King. What is it? Alexa rating, how many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it, and how much time would be involved?

1 (1h 6m 41s):
What is the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week? How to buy a website and next week we’ll be talking to legendary porn star Vicki Vette. You do not

0 (1h 6m 55s):
Want to miss that. And that’s it for this week’s adult side broker talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, Andreas Bischoff of the TES Affiliate Conferences. Talk to you again next week on adult side, broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Shakun Sethi of Tickle dot life.

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1 (1m 25s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, internet.com. The ultimate internet domain is now available, and we are proud to list it. The domain gets 6 million unique visitors a month. This domain can be used for any of a number of uses. The opening bid is only $35 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today is Shakun Sethi, the founder and CEO of tickle.life. Shakun thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank you so much, Bruce, for inviting me and letting me put across the message resonates with I’m so excited and really, really looking forward to talking to you today.

1 (2m 10s):
As my now tickled out life was started as a quest to find the right sex toy. They spent two years looking for the right people to talk to. This is what led to the creation of tickle.life. In 2019, the company is based in San Francisco, tickle.life is the world’s first discovery platform or sexual wellbeing meets lifestyle, tickle.life intend to not just normalize conversations around sexual wellbeing. They want to become a safe and responsible platform that furthers industry interests and sensitizes the society about sexual needs and possibilities. tickle.life believes in promoting a sex positive environment that is safe, inclusive, free of judgment, and that respects your privacy.

1 (2m 56s):
Now Shaq Coon is the founder and CEO of tickle.life. She has over a decade of experience and community management, international communications, brand management, and digital media. Inclusivity is paramount for her. And that is evident in her work. She supports fundraising for various social causes and supports various NGOs. Now let’s start out with the basics. What exactly is tickle.life?

2 (3m 23s):
What are you trying to do with the google.life is create an ecosystem where it becomes easier for people to discover, not just things about sexual wellbeing, but also for the industry to discover different resources, different infrastructure, different, you know, partners that they can be looking out for. And hence we call it a discovery platform. We just want it to be, we just want the industry as a whole. We just want the messaging of sexual developing, discoverable all across the world.

1 (3m 55s):
Okay. Is it more, is it more of a B2B or a B to C platform?

2 (4m 2s):
We are more of a B2C platform, but what has happened is because you would know, and all the listeners would know because from the industry, they just realize that it becomes very, very difficult to go into the market because of shadow banning, because you know, there are platforms which are not sex positive. So even when we had to Cru, it became very important for us to go out and create those products and services so that we could grow. And while we were doing this, we just realized that, you know, we just can’t keep them to ourselves. We would have to get them to the industry as well. So technically we are still B to C because we are trying to grow, but we do understand while we are doing it, we are creating services.

2 (4m 45s):
We are creating technology, which will help the industry as a whole. And we’ve started giving it out to the industry as well.

1 (4m 53s):
Okay. If I go to tickle.life, what am I going to find? There

2 (4m 59s):
You go to find over 350 collaborations between industries, between individuals academicians, between influencers, what talking about sexual wellbeing all across, and that’s what is shown to the end-user. Second thing. What you’re going to see is you’re going to find the biggest listing service of sex, positive podcasts in the world. Third, what you’re going to find is you’re going to find the services that we were talking about, which via using and which we want to give to the industry. Like we became the first podcast hosting service, which was completely sex positive that has not happened before, because if it was really look at any of the services that are available, they will always have a cave.

2 (5m 47s):
It in their terms and conditions that if suppose something goes explicit or suppose something, which, which the team things, or the legal team, things that is is, is not, is this is, you know, related to sex. They would not allow it, or they might ban it. That’s going to be coming to, you know, it doesn’t matter if you use a dome like adult, it doesn’t matter if you use the term like sex as long you’re talking about something, which is related to your wellbeing for the user’s wellbeing. We are. Absolutely. Okay. So I’m alteration works in a completely different manner. We are never going to shut. And you just, because you’re talking about sex, because we created the service for ourselves and we have a sex positive podcast.

2 (6m 29s):
Right,

3 (6m 30s):
Right. Yeah. It’s, it’s kinda like so many vendors that we have to deal with in the industry, whether it be banks, processors, social media platforms in general, it seems like more and more and more they’re they’re banning adult come.

2 (6m 51s):
Absolutely. And you know, that was the thing because when we started, so me and my co founder, we come from the startup world and we never understood like, what exactly we were trying to resolve or solve. We just knew that this is what we wanted to do. We wanted to make sexual wellbeing discoverable to see, we actually put the, there are two main problems in the industry right now industry, or in fact like industry would be a wrong term. I would say in the world, number one is it’s difficult to discover, like click you actually just, just informed people about who I am. And it took two years to find the right people. Just imagine if I desperately needed somebody.

2 (7m 32s):
It just is a deterrent to my growth as a person. Yeah. So what, number one is discoverability. And you know, the reason why the discoverability is an issue because of shadow banning, because other platforms, and we don’t even say that those platforms are doing something wrong. That’s their market, that’s their business. So we are not there to point fingers at them, right. Because that’s, at least, at least we are not taking God. Like you just believe. Yeah. We just think that this is an opportunity to work and they would never ever understand what exactly we need that only we can understand now as an industry.

3 (8m 10s):
Okay. Now you’re from, you’re from India. How sex positive and open are they there about all this?

2 (8m 18s):
Yes, it is. Somebody was asking me this question and I see a very, very interesting change happening. So India is right now in the stage of awareness. And we’re just talking about sexual wellbeing. I’m not talking about a adult toys being sold, the consumption of content. I’m just talking about as the, as, as the, you know, like how we have evolved, it’s still at the first stage of awareness and that’s when the exploratory stage comes. So I would just say that, you know, we had at the first stage, but, but people are getting positive. It’s divided into two, some cities, some population is really evolved that really want to talk about things like we do have different rooms set up on different platforms on our platform.

2 (9m 7s):
And we do see that people from India come, they ask questions and they have genuine relevant questions they have relevant needs. Yes. So I’ll just say that, you know, we are still at the awareness level because a lot of them on an average are related to what is this, rather than opt to use this. So, so that’s a positive input. It’s just like, it will take a lot of time. But if you really think about it, even if there’s a very small percentage of people who are ready to explore, the population is so high, that it would be equivalent to, you know, maybe like population of another country altogether. Yeah.

3 (9m 48s):
Yeah. The, the old, the old world is still coming to grips with things happening in the news.

2 (9m 55s):
Yeah. And I just think that, you know, people, especially during COVID, it just gave a very big opportunity for people to explore and to ask themselves what is happening, what do I want, you know, rather than what somebody else would want, or what would people think, because you’re just, you’re stuck inside your house. Then you start thinking just about yourself. So the time the, the biases that have been created with the adult industry or sexual wellbeing industry has a lot to do with the taboo and the devil comes from the society. So when you’re already doing, you know, like not a part of society anymore, thanks to Kobe that what are you going to do?

2 (10m 36s):
You’re are going to start exploring yourself. Yeah.

3 (10m 38s):
Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s pretty male dominated there.

2 (10m 42s):
And what in India mainly dominated as the industry?

3 (10m 46s):
No, I’m just, I’m just talking about, I’m talking about the society

2 (10m 50s):
Or, or

3 (10m 51s):
Is that, or, or is that not the case anymore?

2 (10m 54s):
I would just, I would just say that, you know, it’s just not India because, because when, when you just started, like, at least when I started being a woman and I just thought that, you know what, Oh, you know, there are these problems which happen in India. It’s a male dominated country. You know, people would not talk about sex. People would be very judgmental if I go out and tell them that, you know, this is what you’re getting into, when it’s completely completely about sex and sex, it will be, people are gonna judge me. But interestingly enough, that did not happen. Yeah, absolutely. It’s, it’s really, really good. Like I spent two years just to think that, am I ready for this?

2 (11m 36s):
I think I should not have used those two things just to think I should have just done it. Yeah. And the same kind of experiences I’m also experiencing across the world. Right. So it’s not very different. The only difference is again, the inquisitive newness or the level of understanding, or the level of doing it’s, it’s a bit less because there are greedy communities, there are kinky people there everything’s happening, but it’s all hypergraph

3 (12m 7s):
Everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Of course. Yeah.

2 (12m 10s):
It’s more on the ground help. That’s how I,

3 (12m 13s):
And, and through it, a lot of Asia, maybe not as much here in Thailand, but to a degree, it is, there’s still a lot of traditionalism. And now obviously you’re in your infancy with the platform. What are your plans for the, for the

2 (12m 31s):
Based simplifying something, which is, which is very obvious. And which has to be done is to bring anybody and everybody who is in the sexual wellbeing industry together. Because as we do not come together, we would not be able to make the impact that it’s needed globally. So it’s about, let’s create a community, let’s provide information, which the end user or your customer or people who are really looking out for it and even not looking out for it get, so once that is done, there are so many things that can be done. But like, if you just think about from the revenue point of view, we are maturing into, like I said, that we have started providing a lot of services, which we were using or which we are using or which we will be developing for the industry.

2 (13m 17s):
Yeah. So it just makes it easy that, Hey, how do you work on it? Or what is the difference? Like a base model example, when we had to hire somebody internally for search engine optimization, it took us so long to find the right people, because they did not understand. They would categorize us as somebody who is running upon site because the keywords are similar because they don’t know. It’s just a very, very niche understanding. And then we started creating that capability internally. And that’s how we also are in a position to say that, Hey, do you need SEO? Which is for your industry, come let’s, let’s have a chat.

2 (13m 59s):
Let’s see, how do we make it happen? Same thing goes with the podcast hosting service. Same thing goes with in future newsletters, like our new setup, whenever we send. And most of the other people who would send, they would go in span as does not. Unless you feel like you flagged it, that it has to go in spam. It would not. And our open rate is 20%, which is even further consumer. Good. Yeah.

3 (14m 25s):
I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got a guy that does it for me and I pay him well. And yeah, I get those kinds of open rates too, but it’s not easy. And you better be.

2 (14m 37s):
Absolutely. And now that we have created that system and it’s all automatic and on top of that, we actually are trying to make the industry self sufficient, that he will take a few classes. We’ll take a few, you know, like coaching for you. How do you make that email that does not go to the spam? Yeah. So it’s more of a handholding because that’s how the community works and you have to help each other. So it’s just not about, you know, this like, Hey, you know what? You pay us money and we will do it. Let’s do it together. So that if tomorrow you want to start doing it on your own, you can do it.

3 (15m 11s):
I’ll be in that. I’ll be in that class, sign me up.

2 (15m 17s):
You’re launching it very soon. I’ll show you as a team to send you an email, but, but that’s what we want to do. Like I said, that, you know, everybody has to work together and everybody can not work together. If you’re just thinking of yourself as a tech company, we don’t want to think of ourselves as a tech company. You want the change to happen. We want another front to be created, which is a sexual wellbeing trend. So that tomorrow, whenever I have kids and if they go, they do not have to be ashamed or they do not have to know or say that. I don’t know.

3 (15m 50s):
Fantastic. And now how are you finding the intersection between content and infrastructure

2 (15m 57s):
Phase in blue and basally done? I’m just being more than steel. It’s not, but still, so what we do is we start, we have, our content is more like an aggregator platform, right? So people who are writing content onto their platforms or have, have a lot of content, which is just lying around or, you know, or it’s completely completely hidden on, on the Google ranking. We ask them why don’t we start showcasing it on to our platform. So we actually ended up creating micro sites for everyone. Nice. So when microsites are created, that’s one part second phase, it is, we would also ask a lot of those people because we’re also providing traffic to give, you know, new content pieces, because we also have to work on the SEO part.

2 (16m 47s):
You need new content, you need old content. You need people to actually, you know, there are a lot of questions that keep on coming. So we need content created from that angle. So a lot of people also provide the new content pieces, especially who do not have blocks. And the third is what tickled.life provides. So we also provide content onto the farm as, as a, as an entity, we do not provide like, Hey, you don’t want it’s us so we can put anywhere. We also have a microsite for us. So it becomes like multiple microsites and those microsites can be used any way. You can, you can use it to publicize yourself. You can use it just to showcase your work experience.

2 (17m 28s):
You can use it to showcase what kind of writings you have or what, what process you have from the industrial point of view. Same thing we do with podcasts. So anybody who hosts a podcast or do also is also gets a microsite so that Microsoft will have all the links of all the different platforms that you are on. Usually we share on four, but with a lot of people, they just ended up saying that, Hey, you know what? I get traffic from an XYZ platform. Can I showcase that also? Which is absolutely fine. And we can do it. So that’s that. And the third and the last one is, but when listing a lot of podcasts and a lot of video content platforms, so they also get the micro-sites.

2 (18m 11s):
So suppose if tomorrow you list your podcast on decal.live, which I would love. If you work, you have over like 300 plus podcasts. Yeah. So you get, you know, like you actually get a microsite and that micro-sites looks pretty, you know, it has explanation because you just keep on asking people, Hey, are you on Spotify? Are you on iTunes? Suppose if I was not on iTunes and you share Spotify link, I would never go. Right? But here, all the links are together. You did not have to go and work on creating your website care of it. It just becomes like a big, big marketplace that your details, people can connect with you on your social networks, on your email, on tickle.life.

2 (19m 0s):
And that’s how it actually ends up, you know, maturing into that’s the content. Have

3 (19m 5s):
You ever been told? You’re a very good salesperson.

2 (19m 9s):
No.

3 (19m 10s):
Okay. Well, I’m telling you, and I’m a good sales person myself. Now your platform says you have over 350 collaborators. Please elaborate on these who these people are. And maybe you can highlight some for us.

2 (19m 25s):
So three 50, what we did was we actually sat with people with advisors who are from the industry to identify what are the different categories, which people look out for. So it could be like, you know, age wise, it could be interest wise. And once we did that, we started identifying people who are writing or who are talking on those fields. So, so like we have Dr. Lee Phillips, who’s writing about disability. Hm. You know, sex and disability. If suppose somebody comes and they look out for it, they know that, you know, they can, they’ll just go and search because it’s like a search engine. You go search, you might find writings by leaflet.

2 (20m 7s):
And once you do that, you’d start connecting with that person. We do have few, we actually have a bond site.com, which is a woman Cedric.

3 (20m 18s):
Oh, yes. I know her and her husband. Yes. Yeah. Collins. Colin’s been on my show. I just, I’m waiting for Angie to reply to my emails. Maybe she’ll hear this.

2 (20m 32s):
I think the grade and what has happened is a lot of people in, at least in India have started understanding. And you know, they, they have been times when I’ve been on some rooms, like live sessions, and they’ve said like, Hey, be VSP, soul dotcom, you and I’m woman. Do you think this platform is for me? Should I go, should I check it out? So that actually directly indirectly helped them.

3 (20m 55s):
Oh sure. Oh, sure. They’ve won what? They’ve won many awards. That, that site. Yes.

2 (21m 1s):
Yeah. The, the, the, the, the music, I don’t have words.

3 (21m 5s):
Yeah. It’s fabulous. It’s a fabulous.

2 (21m 9s):
Absolutely. Then we have your toy because like production houses, we actually have few other content platforms as well. Who are our partners? You know? So it’s just all across, all across the, the fields. So sometimes, you know, I actually like, you know, how do you play roulette? I just go onto the platform. And I just type a random dome that have gone across, because I’m also learning about sexuality. And interestingly enough, you end up finding at least one multimedia piece that could be a podcast episode. That could be obedient. That could be a content piece. That could be an expert. So you end up finding something at least happening there.

2 (21m 51s):
And that’s, what’s fabulous about it.

3 (21m 53s):
Cool. Cool. Now tell me some more about you. We D I, I did a pretty lengthy bio. You’ve done a lot in your life. Tell me some more about you.

2 (22m 4s):
I’m more of a crazy person. If I think that, you know, there’s something interesting happening. And if there are a lot of questions that needs to be explored, because every question and every problem has a solution, and that’s how I think at least I’m so crazily, happily involved with the colored lines, because there are so many, but every problem has a solution. And that’s like the fun part here. I’m from India. I love traveling. I travel all across the world. I don’t even need anybody and just school and travel most of the time, pre COVID and hopefully post COVID.

2 (22m 45s):
You might find me sitting in a cafe all by myself and looking at people. And that was actually like the fullest idea or the full question for sex or for sexual wellbeing started in a cafe when I was just looking at people and watching something, watch porn on the phone. And I was just like, Oh my God. You know, he’s so happy.

3 (23m 12s):
I hope, I hope, I hope both his hands were showing, but anyway,

2 (23m 17s):
Yeah, it was a Starbucks.

3 (23m 19s):
Ah, well, you never know. I’ve heard it done on an airplane, so you just never know.

2 (23m 25s):
Yeah. Okay. You’ve completely spoiled this memory for me now.

3 (23m 30s):
I’m sorry. I’m a guy. I’m a guy. I can ruin anything.

2 (23m 35s):
I was just focusing on the phase and the thing, and they’re all so happy, but, but yeah, so, you know, that’s, that’s what exactly who I am. Yeah. I come from like a very interesting region in India, which we’ve seen a lot of ups and downs, political upheavals, and that’s exciting as well in a way, but that actually makes you more evolved and understand integrities and understand the life is really, really important. Yes. I was in Netherlands for awhile. That’s where I did my post-graduate graduation and a lot again, what.life is doing.

2 (24m 16s):
And my interest in sexuality comes from there. That was the sex toy shop for you and having fun living life finding solution. I’m pretty, pretty sure we will be able to create the big ecosystem as the full front, which this world needs, which all of us need.

3 (24m 37s):
Absolutely. So talk about the sexual wellbeing industry. The difference between that in North America and in India, we talked a little bit about awareness, but how’s the sexual wellbeing industry different.

2 (24m 55s):
Okay. So in India, if I stay, if I start, the rules are pretty ambiguous, we do have some adult stores online. We do not have offline. We do have people who are working for sexual wellbeing. We do have few counselors. We do have few therapists, but it’s still at a Bay nascent stage. People are buying toys. People are excited about toys, but still, you know, like they are skeptical about them. Like even for somebody like me, it took me a lot of time to accept if I’m staying with my parents, because a lot of people still stay with the parents. I would not want a sex toy coming for me. Yeah. Yeah. So

3 (25m 35s):
I don’t think, I don’t think many women would.

2 (25m 38s):
I, I th I think, I think it will also be for men now because like, you know, a lot of men also stay with their parents. They don’t want somebody else opening, you know, it’s just awkward. Yeah. So that’s happening in India. People are still be quiet about it. People still want to talk about it, but they do not know how to talk about it. So the industry here is baby. Nice. Sure. They’re just like three or four major players. Yeah. But that’s actually an opportunity as well, because they, they get to like, you know, get the maximum share and whatever they say, people listen. So if I come down to North America, it’s already a matured market.

2 (26m 19s):
Yes. But here, the problem is that there are so many things, so many people are doing, there’s still adore to focus. And that actually happens because of the problems. Yes, yes. Yeah. Even for us, we would just like, you know, we would just go from one platform to another, to the third platform, to the fourth platform, just thinking, Oh my God, we need people that can think is it w what at least we see, or we’ve identified is that what really needs to be done is just to focus on your identity rather than, you know, taking care of things like tech, taking care of things like publicity, because if your identity is created, then things work out, which is missing right now because there’s so much to do.

2 (27m 6s):
And, and it it’s, it’s, it’s crazy. Like, you know, even like banking is so difficult. Something which, which I don’t know, a lot of people will agree is I still think we have to work together, which is happening, but it’s also not happening. Because if, if we have problems with Instagram is still focusing most of our energy on Instagram a lot. Yeah. And what if like tomorrow just goes off like fuels habit, Instagram account, don’t get, don’t get me wrong. But the thing is, we know that we can not spend more than 20 minutes per day on this, because what will happen? Like if tomorrow they just take it off.

3 (27m 45s):
Yeah. And little by little that’s that’s happening in adult, what services are you providing to the sexual wellbeing industry?

2 (27m 58s):
Like I said, one is the podcast hosting service, the world’s first sex positive podcast hosting. So is that will be better because why, I mean, why not other people? And it looks super cheap. We’ve just made it a point that it is be just to take money for the solvers and for the tech, rather than making money out of it. Because this was not like a revenue model for us. It’s more to do with what can we do? How can we bring more people together and more people safe together. The second one is we’ve started with the SEO service. The third one that we’ve started, like I said, like about the newsletter, but it’s just not about disseminating newsletters. It’s also about how do you actually draft newsletter?

2 (28m 40s):
How do you actually send them? How many times you are supposed to send them in a month, in what way you’re supposed to send them. So it’s more of an amalgamation of coaching plus the deck together. And we’ve also started working with, which has just launched. And it’s just with like, you know, two or three people. And it’s also going to be like a course is about how do you use different marketing platforms, which actually has your target audience rather than Instagram or Facebook. They do not, but there are platforms which actually is right for you, which is not going to ban you if you know how to work on it.

2 (29m 22s):
And that’s how we actually grew. And because we did not spend even a single penny on advertisements ever. And so we want to let you know, take this up also, but there’s also something very interesting that’s going to happen based soon. So we have a course, a very small course about back to basics, which was created for the end users, was that when you’re talking about basics, build to do understand that in the adult industry, people who are actually selling the toys outside and the products outside, they might know about the product, they might know about how to use it. But sometimes they do not know, or they do not have enough information about a person’s interest and anatomy.

2 (30m 10s):
Right. And when you do not know that your sales would always be less than it could have become, it’s true because people want to go to a counselor and then take a suggestion rather than just going to Salesforce and launching the school’s Vegas soon, just for the production industry that, Hey, this is a course, that’s done bio credential. You’re going to get certification. It’s been done and created by somebody who’s in the industry who is working in those sexual wellbeing industry as well has sold toys also is qualified enough, has all the right certifications. So that’s something that’s going to happen baby soon. So we are just on the verge of closing the gone dent.

2 (30m 52s):
And it’s going to be like a long course, because we just want, whoever becomes, whoever is ready to actually go and sell, should be made to feel as if that person knows the person and is closer to being a counselor rather than just shoving off sex toy in somebody’s face.

3 (31m 12s):
Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. What are the biggest concerns you have as a sex tech founder?

2 (31m 21s):
The biggest concerns. One is investments. People are investing. No doubt about that, but still there are there, aren’t a lot of people who are agendas, you know, the right people. Yeah. Second is obviously the tech part because we are creating things, but somewhere, some, you know, down the line, things are closed. How far can we take it thought? And I think which actually nullifies the first two is why is the industry overall? And, and I don’t mean just like sexual well-being industry or just the adult industry, or just the admissions, why everybody’s not together, why everybody is working in silos, because if you’re working in silos, things that aren’t going to happen, we need to work together.

2 (32m 5s):
And it is still missing, which I think is the major reason why a lot of such negative laws, Abbas bars, or such negative things happen, or if you’re not able to actually scale the level of which we could have scaled. So I just think we have to have to have to work together. We have to figure out synergies and there are electric thousands of synergies. It’s not even a puzzle.

3 (32m 29s):
It sounds like this is going to kind of morph into as much of a B2B platform as a B to C and in my hearing you’re right. No,

2 (32m 40s):
It still is going to be a B2C platform because if you are not a B2C platform, we would not be in a position to resolve and find solutions could be, to be true. So it can’t, it can’t be just a B2B platform because then we just become,

3 (32m 56s):
I didn’t say plus, I mean, I’m sorry. Sorry. I didn’t say instead. I, I said, it sounds like, it sounds like you’re also going to offer a lot of B2B service.

2 (33m 7s):
Yeah, absolutely. So, so it might work like, you know, two different. It is actually right now, two different verticals in the team. So it’s the tech team, which is creating for us as, as a tickle dot light. So tickle.life is also like a client, you know, content or the B2C is also a client. So how do you make tickle.life grow while you’re making us grow? How do you make all those people who are a part of us grow? So whatever is needed for that is what tickle guard life will be creating. So if it is tech services great, if it is courses great, if it is EDU deck great. If it is sex education, great, we will do it so that the industry groups together.

3 (33m 51s):
Hmm. Okay. Yeah. And you know, one thing, one thing you’re going to find the longer you are in this industry, there actually is people are, I wouldn’t say that. I think competitors do work together here and they’re, they’re happy to work together. There are exceptions. Okay. There’s always going to be, exceptions are always going to be that guy, you know, but the people in our industry do tend to work together. Now we’re trying to get them to work more together and to solve a lot of the issues we have with the mainstream platforms and things like that.

3 (34m 32s):
That sounds fantastic. And I, you know, I certainly welcome and I’m sure the industry will welcome any help you can give in that regard.

2 (34m 40s):
Absolutely. I’m just an email away. We can get on a call. We can talk I’m, I’m learning. And we, the entire team, of course. And we’re just like, you know, like when you talk and then you just start understanding, Hmm, there’s something interesting. Let’s see, you can do it. We have a problem. We actually sometimes end up sending emails to other people that, how did it resolve this issue? It’s just not one site.

3 (35m 6s):
Well, people will help. People will help people. People certainly do help because we’re really all in this together. Are you is tickled out life. Are you planning on attending events in the industry?

2 (35m 18s):
Oh, we did few last year. Or do you know you did then like women or sex date? We did it again. Sex tech.edu. We did it. And there was another sex tech.com. We did it then. So this year we are open. We would love to

3 (35m 35s):
Go to go to some B2B shows and

1 (35m 38s):
I can advise you on, on some good ones to go to. Yeah, you need, you need, you need to get out there and meet people should Coon in our, in our industry and in the B2B shows because that’s, I think that’s going to be a, the secret sauce for you. So, so let’s say five years from now, where do you see <inaudible> life, you know, at what do you see it becoming that it, that it might not be now.

2 (36m 9s):
We want to, we want to reach 10 million users month, month. Wow. It’s, it’s just simple, humble. That’s

1 (36m 17s):
Nice. But I mean, what do you see being different about the platform five years from now?

2 (36m 22s):
See, that’s something that, you know, that we can predict. So because of this industry, but we do, would that be it on the right pants? Now we have experimented a lot in the past one, one and a half feel about what works, what does not work. So in a way to, to finally say that, you know, in five years, this is what we are going to be, might be something which is not there. But if I still have to put what we are envisioning, we are envisioning that whenever somebody is looking out for anything to do with sexuality, that means looking off the resources, looking out for people, looking at the industry, looking at the content, looking out for products. So maturing into a big marketplace while remaining a discovery platform is what we envision to happen in five years.

1 (37m 7s):
Okay. Okay. Fantastic. Shukui I have no doubt. And I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. Thank you. Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well has your content been protected from piracy and what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy take down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates?

1 (37m 49s):
The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be. What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site. Do you use billing or affiliate software like gnats or MPA three? What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joints and rebuilds do you have per day? Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets?

1 (38m 34s):
Or have you already advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend to produce or buy the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your website? How is it unique? Make sure to include a list of all of the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a nondisclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers, like, Oh, I don’t know. Maybe adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours.

1 (39m 21s):
And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They will also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price and any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course, we’ll talk about this more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Andreas Bischoff of the TES Affiliate Summit.

0 (39m 48s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Shakun Sethi. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with

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Our property of the week that’s for sale that adult site broker, we are proud to list for sale and network of two mainstream flirt chat sites. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and New Zealand, both are mainstream flirt, chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis.

1 (1m 17s):
They have a loyal customer base of 27,000 plus real members with many customers still active from 2017. Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with very low overhead and a proven ROI of 900%. Plus on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing. These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep of the sites requires very little time and most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 plus strong member database.

1 (1m 59s):
Many great markets are yet on tap for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA. Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites for only 484,000 euros. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adults. Broker talk is Natalie PanIN of mojo host, Natalie, thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk, thank you for inviting me. It’s a pleasure now. And mojo hosts we’re Natalie works has 58 awards for outstanding hosting services and business practices.

1 (2m 40s):
It’s the leading choice for hosting in the adult industry established in 1999, mojo hosts growth and attention to powering the success of its clients has positioned it as a choice for mainstream hosting needs as well. They offer dedicated servers, virtual private servers, the mojo hosts, CDN global content delivering network. That’s a mouthful, a mojo host cloud computing services, mojo shield, website security, and other web technology solutions. And Natalie has been part of the adult industry for eight years now. And she grew from user technical support to decision-making sales and marketing positions.

1 (3m 22s):
She’s now the business development sales and marketing marketing, shockingly BDSM get that business development sales and marketing manager at mojo host. Her job is to take on everything required to develop the business. So do these are quite varied from sales and marketing to HR and team building to washing the dishes she handles, what needs to be done. I threw that one in and is not afraid of the responsibility that comes with showing initiative. And Natalie’s has a master’s degree in journalism and you did one better than me. Cause I only got a bachelor’s in broadcast journalism and worked in many fields before entering the business of digital adult entertainment.

1 (4m 7s):
She’s been a teacher, she sold diamonds wholesale. She’s been a barista. I didn’t know she could make a good cup of coffee. I need to ask her next time and a legal clerk. She enjoys reading scifi and fantasy books. And if she goes to the movies, you can pretty much bet it’s something about superheroes. She wears many hats. The two most wide brimmed of those are mojo hosts, BDSM, and her she’s a mom Natalie’s Natalie’s daughter is going on five years of age. So that had, is getting more and more fun every day. So, Hey, talk about being a mom. You got a five, you got a, he got a five-year old.

1 (4m 50s):
How how’s, how does that mix with doing business?

2 (4m 56s):
Well, you know, it sometimes does feel like you’re a jigsaw octopus. That’s sort of my term for having to multitask during work. But that being said, I mean, motherhood is great and I’ve managed to incorporate, you know, B being a working individual who puts in at least eight or 10 hours a day to also spending time with my daughter. And that’s something that I particularly enjoy, especially now that you see her growing into an individual and somebody with her own opinions and somebody who, you know, thinks and functions as a grownup as a small little version of a grownup.

2 (5m 38s):
So, so it’s certainly an interesting experience for sure. It was difficult, especially in the very beginning with, you know, no sleep. And I think I took a total of four months for maternity and that was that, and then went right back to work. So it, it was a little difficult to juggle, but overall I just I’m enjoying the, the, you know, the life as you say it and definitely enjoying the job as well. So it’s a good, it’s a good place to be where you’re happy to wake up in the morning. You’re happy to come to work. You’re happy to get off work and spend time with your daughter. So the whole balance of life and work is certainly working out if not particularly easily, obviously, but at least to the best.

3 (6m 23s):
Yeah. Now, now you live in the Ukraine that’s you guys have certainly had your share of issues. How has life been there lately?

2 (6m 34s):
I am kind of far away from any issues. So it’s, it’s not really touched me directly, obviously there’s, you know, worries about things that are going on in the East, but it’s kind of dying down lately. And I mean, Odessa where I’m at right now is really the quietest place. It’s at the beach, it’s a tourist destination. So the location isn’t that big of a deal for me. And I quite like it here. I mean the beach in the summer is definitely gray. We do have four seasons, which is amazing. People think that since I’m from Ukraine, it must be really cold. And I guess everything is comparative. There’s warmer places and there’s definitely colder places, but I do enjoy the fact that there’s four seasons.

2 (7m 19s):
We actually had some snow this summer for a change because last summer we had no snow and it was well to the great upsetness of my child who really wanted to go sledding and Katie and all of those things. So I’m happy with that overall. I mean, it’s been pretty quiet. Odessa has always been a very, it’s a port city and it’s always been like a trader city. And the one thing about traders is they’re trying to stay as far away from trouble as they can, because it’s not good for trade, not good for business. So, so it S has kind of been away for most of most of the issues that has happened in the country over the past 10 years in a good place overall and, and countries doing better.

2 (8m 8s):
I think, you know, I’m not much for politics you’ll, you won’t see one comment for me in a political thread anywhere, but I just think that, you know, it’s doing better than it was five years ago, for sure. So that much,

3 (8m 25s):
That is good now being where you are. And I would imagine a reasonable percentage of your business is in the U S how do you balance that

2 (8m 38s):
By working all sorts of hours is going to be my response. But I mean, we do have a lot of customers in Europe and we also have customers in Asia, which I can pick up on, you know, my morning. So sometimes I do have to show up for PST phone calls that, you know, maybe my 2:00 AM or 4:00 AM or whatever it is, but it’s not really that common. I mean, most of the time I can easily schedule things into my more, my evening. That’s still catches the PST morning as the office people call me employee from the future because by the time they’ve showed up to the office, I’ve likely been working for six or seven hours.

2 (9m 18s):
So that’s nice. I usually have a, a lead on them for anything that’s going on. And, you know, we’ve grown our presence here. I mean, being able to join Mojer host, and then eventually one of the first things that I noticed was that technical talent was always a restricting factor in anything that we did. And so I actually helped the company. I jokingly say that I brought the, the Ukrainian mafia, but I, I actually helped the company hire a lot of technical staff here. Very, very smart technical staff that are all senior level systems, administrators, and the team has the tech team had tripled over the past few years.

2 (10m 2s):
So I was lucky enough. Well, first of all, I was lucky enough to stumble upon a large hosting company that was closing its office here in Ukraine. So I picked up all of the best team members from them. And then, you know, and then obviously others, I’ve done a lot of screening for talented systems administrators in the country and was able to help us grow that way. Now we’re certainly geared towards success with how much the tech team has grown and are able to bring out a lot more customers and do a lot of, a lot more migrations and really cut our response times and, and how quickly we deal with any requests.

2 (10m 43s):
So, you know, definitely in a good place. And, you know, we’re always open to hiring technical staff really anywhere, especially with COVID now that now that the office work, isn’t really a thing anyway, even for people in the U S or we do have an office in Ukraine, but we don’t require anybody to show up there. It’s more of a backup in case, you know, the lights go out or something, or, or your mother-in-law shows you can’t work at home anymore. My mother-in-laws are touchy topics, but other than that, I mean, we’ve grown tremendously and I’m very, very happy to see this growth.

3 (11m 28s):
Yes. Yeah. There’s a, there’s a ton of tech talent in Eastern Europe. There’s no two ways about it. And a lot of it is in the Ukraine now. Now, how did you end up in the adult business? Or I should say, how did a nice girl, like you get in a place like this?

2 (11m 49s):
Oh, you know what, first off I want to say that I do not think there’s anything particularly about adults. I mean, we can, all, we can all be hypocrites and say, Oh, we joke about it. There’s ethical adult businesses, frankly, a lot of ethical adult businesses. And I think it’s better to have that than, than, you know, a shady way of doing it. And one way or another porn is going to be part of our lives. I mean, there’s no other way to say it, besides that. I mean, the story’s kind of out there, I’ve already done some written interviews on it, the sort of nuts and bolts on it were that I was 23 and had started a job selling diamonds, a wholesale, which was interesting and great and a little terrifying.

2 (12m 34s):
Cause you know, I could have $50,000 in my purse at any given time as I was, you know, dealing with jewelers, wholesale diamond sales are all dealing with jewelers. I never really sold directly to customers, but it, it was going well, but it was boring. You would think, right? The diamonds are a girl’s best friends, but beyond the simplest city of learning the colors and shapes and being able to tell a better diamond for a worst one, it really wasn’t all that interesting. And once you’ve kind of grown into knowing the intricacies of judging the stones, there’s not very much, you know, you park it on price, but that’s fairly easy.

2 (13m 19s):
So it became really, really daunting that I wasn’t really learning anything. And every day it was really the same. So I started looking for something that would be more, a little more challenging. And I found a job posting that said that they’re looking for a tech support person and, you know, having a very good English. That was one of the, really one of the biggest requirements there I decided to apply. And it actually took a good month for them to get back to me, which doing HR now, I think is ridiculous. But after a month they invited me for an interview were very happy with me, hired me.

2 (14m 3s):
And then as I was leaving, they said, are you religious? I’m like, no, not really. We’re not particularly. And they said, well, how do you feel about, you know, this PR this working with this industry? You know, I had no idea that that I’ve showed up to an interview for that, but I said, okay, whatever, I quite liked everything else. I mean, it was a great office, really nice team. So, so I started working there and then my very first job was actually user support, not just on a adult site, on a hardcore full cocky network.

2 (14m 45s):
Yeah. So that was a lot of fun. I mean, most of the requests are obviously either billing or something, not working, but it, it was, it was certainly a step from diabetes. Let’s say cocky is definitely a reach from diamonds, for sure. And then from there I got drafted into sales, kicking and screaming actually, because I liked the tech side so much and I wanted to learn more in it that I did not want to transfer into sales. And despite offering me more money and trying to push me to towards of, you know, sales and marketing position, I still did not want to do with.

2 (15m 26s):
And I think there was three or four frantic conversations. When I said, I don’t want to go into sales. I just want to do this tech stuff. I really like it. I want to learn those API. I want to learn a little bit of coding, but you have such great people, people skills I was told. All right. So eventually I started, but I realized that being in sales does not mean you have to drop everything and only work on sales. First of all, and this isn’t really common, but I think the sales person needs to know their product in depth and in depth by in-depth. I don’t necessarily mean being able to write the code for it, but I mean that they need to know what it is that they’re selling and how it works.

2 (16m 11s):
So maybe not, not, not the particular intricacies of actual coding, but at least the basics need to be known some of the technical questions. The sales person needs to know how to answer at least by, you know, kind of learning by osmosis. I mean, you worked with the tech team to answer customer’s questions and eventually you’ll figure out the answers to them and, and why those answers are so, and so I’ve always focused on understanding and being more in depth with both, you know, right now it would be server hardware and, and the server load and what the website’s required in terms of infrastructure and how the CDN works and how TDN by the way, is that mouthful of content delivery network that you mentioned earlier and how, how web application firewalls work and how to protect yourself from like an attack, for example, and how all of those tools work.

2 (17m 8s):
So there’s, there’s definitely a lot of learning to do for somebody who has not been exposed in hosting at all. And I feel like in three years, I’ve certainly grown here and I don’t really see a ceiling of growing since there’s just so much to learn so much infrastructure there’s so much to learn. So I, I definitely don’t feel like I’ll reach a ceiling anytime soon here, in terms of, in terms of growth and, and new knowledge, why did you move on from the first job? You know, I actually, are you talking about ceilings? I realized that I haven’t went to somebody with a question for awhile and I haven’t really learned anything new for a while.

2 (17m 53s):
So I’ve kind of known how to deal with pretty much any situation and people were coming to me for guidance or maybe the support staff or the sales staff. And I haven’t really been required to learn anything new for a while. So I decided that it was time to move on. I mean, I spent five years there. I have the greatest experiences and the greatest memories of that job. It was just time to go. And I felt like the product had launched or the newer product. I don’t know if I haven’t mentioned yet, but I was with Centro. And then starting with adult century, moving into model Centro and eventually found Centro, the product of launch, they were successful stands great.

2 (18m 35s):
By the way, I mean, I like him very much. His family’s great. So it, it was great working for him, but it was time to go. I felt like I wasn’t bringing enough value anymore, or rather I was just bringing the same old value and not growing. So it was time to go, okay.

3 (18m 56s):
Now you’ve worked in very dynamic fields before mojo dealing with models and content owners, as well as site operators. I think you may have answered the question. I, if I’m, if I’m reading into things, cause I’m starting to follow your mind, why did you choose hosting something that some people would consider kind of geeky and boring?

2 (19m 19s):
Well, for somebody who likes Saifai geeky is sort of a compliment. That’s true. My bad. I did partly answer your question. Of course, it’s for a new thing, something new to do. The other reason is actually not so evident, but Stan being Stan and, and obviously he’s a great man with a lot of businesses. I really did not want to do anything to upset him because I respect him. And I think he’s a great guy. So my, one of my requirements for looking for a new job was to get a job somewhere where there is no competition to the things that he does.

2 (20m 3s):
So frankly, being such a great businessman, that wasn’t very many things available anymore.

3 (20m 10s):
You make a point since then even more so.

2 (20m 14s):
Yes. So Stan definitely does, has a lot of businesses and is successful at many of them. So hosting was really among the very few choices that I had in terms of not stepping on the toes of my former employer or, or looking shady in terms of, you know, there’s always talk when somebody leaves a company and joins another, is that they brought all their client base and all of that stuff. And I just, you know, obviously I still have the contacts. There’s no way I can get rid of them forever because now they’re, a lot of people are more than contacts, center, acquaintances, or friends that I want to stay in touch with. But at the same time, there’s no competition directly or indirectly with any of the things that they are doing.

4 (20m 59s):
Did the fact that it had to do with technical things, appeal to you as well?

2 (21m 7s):
For sure. Yeah. So, so the whole idea of learning a whole new area was magnificent. I felt, I felt sad. I mean, I guess every time you leave a job that you’ve done for a long time and, and really liked, you feel sad leaving, like your people, you work with, you feel sad leaving the team as well as the customers that you work with directly. But even then, you know, I knew they were going to do well without me. So that, that felt lighter, but it was time to learn new things for sure. And, and I’m very happy for the opportunity that Brad gave me with learning hosts.

4 (21m 47s):
Yeah. Yeah. I was personally, I was shocked to see you leave. Cause it was like, wait, Natalie’s leaving. It’s like everybody so associated you with that company that we watched you grow up in that company. So it was kind of like, yeah, it was a shock to the system for all of us in the adult family. How are there so many hosting choices okay. Out there? How is mojo hosts different from everyone else?

2 (22m 17s):
So there there’s actually many ways, but let me focus on some of the main ones. One is that we never compromise on quality. So when, so obviously it’s easy to be a cheap host as cheap as possible, but actually providing value is, is also very important than much harder. We always focus on quality. Every decision we make is geared towards quality of service. It has to do with the network it has to do with the hardware, anything that has to do with technical support. Obviously that’s what we’re known for, for very, very high touch tech support and going above and beyond anything that a hosting company usually would offer because we do, you know, we help customers plan out their infrastructure.

2 (23m 4s):
We help customers implement, you know, go through the growth pains and implement new things that will help their websites grow. We fine tuned the servers to the point where it’s optimized and perfect for what they’re trying to do. We worked directly with customers to try to resolve any problem they have. And if our team can’t do it and we’ll find somebody who will, and that has to do with pretty much anything. I mean, people come to me for QA advice to help them, you know, make sure that there’s no bugs on their websites. People come to me to ask which domain name Dubai people. Yes.

2 (23m 44s):
And then people come me to ask what billers to use. People come to me and ask what CMS systems they, the would be able to use for certain new project. It kind of goes above and beyond what they are used to in terms of hosting support. And we always help. That’s part of our, part of our motto. Be a nice thing.

1 (24m 4s):
If I can, if I can interject it’s part, I think any time your you’re doing sales and you’re working closely with somebody, you become a trusted partner, not just a salesperson, which you, which is what

2 (24m 18s):
Yes. And what I actually enjoy it because in the long run, obviously not because, because I just like helping people in general, but it obviously also helps my business because the better off the company is, and the better they grow, the more hosting they end up needing. But other than that, the other distinguishing factor is that we aren’t a corporate machine. We are very human. We’re very humane. And we are always approachable. Customers can text bread in the middle of the night, which I asked them not to do and to reach out to me and said, but we, we are approachable and we are human.

2 (24m 60s):
We will always understand and support our customers through highs as well as lows. You know, there’s just for example, I have an interesting example, actually. You remember last winter there was fires in LA. Yes. So before that, a couple of months before that we spoke to a company that’s based there and offered them hosting and they were using Amazon and they got her quotes thought about it. It was great. It was saving the money, but it was just so much work to move them out. Frankly, Amazon snared them with something where it costs them $8,000 to move out because of the outbound bandwidth costs.

2 (25m 42s):
Yes. So, so basically they were sort of a, a, a hostage to their hosts because of the rates, then the way that they were set up. So they weren’t sure they wanted to make the move. It’s a very large company. So, so it’s not necessarily a gigantic sum for them, but it’s still, it’s still very evidence there. So they weren’t really sure they wanted to make the move just because migrations are never simple. And the expected issues, especially with large digital businesses. So they weren’t sure they wanted to move. And eventually the fires broke out and they’re all stuck in tents with barely any access to the internet.

2 (26m 24s):
And they can’t even log in to their banking to pay their bill with Amazon. And I was on says, we’re cutting you off in seven days.

1 (26m 34s):
It’s a very Amazon thing to do actually.

2 (26m 37s):
And I understand their corporate business. They’re not making those choices. They don’t have the tools or the procedures to make choices as humans. They make them as computers too. And they’re like, well, this is our livelihood. And this is obviously a forced majority situation, but they were just sent from one person to another and never got any resolution. So they called us and said, Hey guys, what are the chances we can move in seven days? And I’ll tell you, this migration is like, that usually would take two or three months working overnight 24 seven. We migrated them in six and a half days over to Mojer host and gave them unlimited credit until the situation is resolved with, you know, being uprooted due to the fires.

2 (27m 27s):
And luckily, you know, they hadn’t lost any property. And then the ed went back to their homes and everything went back to normal. They caught up on their bills, but we were there for them to help them through a very difficult time. And I think we’ve gained a very, very devoted customer from that. And do you really ever see that from a corporate machine or a larger business with a lot more tears and eight levels of approvals for anything? So that’s major hosts for you, we’re human and that differentiates us. Yeah.

3 (28m 2s):
Yes. Now you mentioned Brad, your owner, Brad Mitchell, who he’s a past guest on our podcast and he’s in my mind kind of like the mayor of the adult space. You know, I, I got a story about Brad. We were in the why not show in San Francisco, the Lake, great. Why not show? And you might’ve been at that show. And I remember there was like really long dead time at the show. And Brad just said, okay, we’re opening the bar, I’m paying for it. And he just got the bar open and they brought a bar in downstairs in the seminar area room, a seminar room area.

3 (28m 48s):
And he just opened the bar and paid for it. That is Brad Mitchell. So how was it working with Brad every day?

2 (28m 60s):
Well, Fred’s absolutely indefinitely. Not only generous at trade shows. He is an amazing person. He combines generosity and being fucking also with all of his, excuse my language, with all of, all of his just day to day work and looks and actions and decisions. But other than that, he’s actually, he’s humble. He’s nice. You know, anytime there I do something wrong, he is the one giving me excuses. And I’m the one saying, no, no, I, I, I messed this up real bad.

2 (29m 40s):
So, so he’s really, he’s really, really great to work with. Luckily my conscious provides all of the kicks that I’d require anyway, but Brad is just that. I mean, he’s very, very easy to work with. He doesn’t micromanage. He supports my decisions. And frankly, the decision method is very, very simple at motor hosts, which I really, really appreciate. We value every decision based on whether or not it’s good mojo. And that encompasses pretty much everything in terms of is this the right thing to do? Is this the good thing to do? Is this a nice thing to do to our customer?

2 (30m 21s):
Is this, you know, th the, is the decision something that I won’t feel bad about and that makes life so much easier because that on ties my hands to make decisions based on what I think is correct. And, and there’s a great value fit because I think that I fully understand what good mojo is. And I, you know, it just makes things easy. I will never be at fault if I acted on doing what’s right.

1 (30m 51s):
That’s cool. Now it’s interesting because when someone posts about needing hosting on one of the boards, the replies are usually either a hundred percent mojo host or close to a hundred percent. Mojer hosts. Now, I’m sure that’s very gratifying, but doesn’t that also make the expectations a bit higher on the part of the clients

2 (31m 11s):
That’s true. And you know, it’s our job to meet them. The, we do not try to lower our standards or, you know, in order to make sure that people don’t expect too much of us, that’s never happened. We’ve certainly earned a lot of brand fans. And that’s what I sort of call the people who are very happy with her hosting and who recommend us. And that was done through hard work, through giving them a great experience through giving them a wow experience where they are impressed by how well we handle a situation that does not necessarily have to be a good situation, right? I mean, issues happen. Downtimes happen. It’s nobody has full insurance against trouble with their hosting.

2 (31m 56s):
It’s how well the company deals with it that makes that decision work or not work, or makes the person satisfied or dissatisfied with the service. Of course, we also, by doing the right thing, we also help our customers through everything that they need, and we help them through any issues they have, or if there’s a, a problem that they need solved, that’s likely that we can help them solve it. So, so they’re overall happy with pretty much everything, not just their hosting. So our support is great. I mean, the, the response time, the guys there, they’re very knowledgeable. Everyone who speaks to our customer assist is a senior systems administrator, which by the way, is very uncommon.

2 (32m 39s):
Most companies have what is called levels of support, right? And those levels of support start with a talking head, which is the level one, somebody who gets the request and gets the information from the customer level two, which is a person who may be able to solve your problem, but isn’t very experienced. So he doesn’t know how to do it. Then get escalated to level three who goes in and takes care of the requests. And that’s the senior systems administrator. We employ our customer facing staff are all senior level systems, administrators.

4 (33m 15s):
Hmm, God, that sounded, that sounded like Apple. My God frustrates the hell out of me. Every time I call them,

2 (33m 24s):
They will escalate. You know, and I get it. There’s economics of scale in those decisions, but we offer a very high quality service and that high quality service requires us to, to make sure that we don’t differentiate, or we basically don’t stratify our support team and only work with very, very experienced techs. And so that our customers, when they call us, be it in the middle of the night or during the day it’s 24 seven, they know that the person they are reaching in the support staff is able to fix their problem immediately. And we’ll need to escalate it through several levels before they get to it.

4 (34m 3s):
That’s awesome. Now events are obviously a big part of mojo hosts marketing plan. How have the lack of shows affected you?

2 (34m 13s):
I would be saying untruths. If I said that there wasn’t any effect whatsoever, frankly, I think we’ve had record attrition in 2020 for businesses closing down at the same time, people are using the crisis to start new things. So we actually managed to end up in a positive customer influx versus customer attrition over 2020, which was a difficult task. I’ll tell you that. And in terms of where we get our customers, digital trade shows have been fairly successful with that.

2 (34m 57s):
And a lot of our customers are referrals. Thanks to the, the quality of service that we provide. A lot of our customers are referrals from one, or, you know, from one way or another, whether it’s personal or through forums or through other resources, there’s people have published guides about how great mojo host is and how everybody should come in and work with us. So when you provide a service, that’s first people to make a webpage about how great your hosting is. And you know, most of them, I offered to act as affiliates.

2 (35m 38s):
And obviously we have an affiliate program that pays out a lifetime percentage of what your referral pay. Your referral pays to us. However many people don’t even worry about starting the affiliate account and actually getting a percentage. All they worry about is that their contacts get good hosting and a great service, which we definitely deliver. So there’s that, I mean, the trade shows I missed sorely every week really want to go back to live trade shows, but I think that we’re doing quite well, even in the, you have traveling and business travel.

3 (36m 18s):
Well, we certainly are home a lot more now aren’t we?

2 (36m 23s):
My daughter appreciate it.

3 (36m 24s):
Yeah, I bet she does. Mommy’s there. My, my dogs appreciate it. Now with those were my children now without shows, how does mojo hosts make up for the loss of face to face time with potential clients?

2 (36m 42s):
There’s always zoom calls where we’re available 24 seven for any communication through either our website or Skype or telegram or fiber or WhatsApp. I think I have them all, maybe not signals that’s maybe the only ones that I’m missing so far, but, well, yeah, well there’s so many, so much space in my apps before they start breaking on me, but I’m, I’m considering it as well. Obviously Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all of those resources are open for us. We do our best to make sure that we stay together digitally.

2 (37m 23s):
We propose phone calls for every sales conversation that we have, and those are all video phone calls. So we try to stay on top of continuing the personal communication. And other than that, I mean, we’ve put in efforts in marketing, we started an act of blog that people can check out by going to Mojo’s dot com and clicking blog, where we share interesting and for an important information about infrastructure solutions, as well as other things. I mean, there’s quite a lot of information that you can find in our blog, but since those are created with, you know, mostly my efforts than the blog posts are actually very non-techie.

2 (38m 5s):
So you may find it useful to figure out what it is your infrastructure includes by just going to a blog and reading through that.

3 (38m 15s):
We’ve got a nice newsletter too.

2 (38m 17s):
Yeah. So we, we try to, we do our best to, to keep in touch with our customers. I think our latest newsletter got it, giant word of approval from everyone. Since we announced that we’ve just launched a free DDoSs protection for our entire network. So those are very cool news. And a lot of people are very happy with it. That DDoS protection is already active for every customer at no extra cost.

3 (38m 42s):
Sweet.

2 (38m 44s):
So that’s handled as well as I think on this one, bread approved a increase in default bandwidth allotment per server in our European servers, which is another nice little carry on top of that cake. So every, all of the, every server now comes with 200 terabytes of bandwidth and that’s eight times more than, as, than it was. And I think it’s very well, eight times or 80 times more than most hosting companies offer. I think the default now in, in most hosts offers is 10 terabytes,

3 (39m 26s):
Pretty cool news.

2 (39m 27s):
And then, so we try to keep, keep in touch with our customers. Mostly it’s either email or passengers. I even started a telegram channel, which isn’t very popular at the moment, but I’m working on, I’m working on making it useful and populating it with interesting content before I could actually start inviting people there. And that’s going to be a techie channel where I’ll talk in easy terms about infrastructure thing.

3 (39m 57s):
Add me. I’d love to see it. Cool. Yeah. So what is your, what does your typical Workday look like?

2 (40m 4s):
Well, it really varies and it depends on what’s on my to-do list. And since my to-do list includes everything, my joke about that by the way, is in washing dishes. My joke is that if I need to walk the dog in order for the company to do better, I will. So whatever needs to be done today, isn’t necessarily what needs to be done yesterday. Obviously I take care of sales matters, the social media platforms, anything in terms of, so we’re always open to looking for new technical staff. So I do some of the HR screenings and meetings, phone calls, anything in between.

2 (40m 48s):
I handle all of our sales by sales targeted inbound tickets, just quite a lot of juggling, but it’s fun. I actually started a new beam thing on Twitter, which I don’t know if I’ll continue. I need a lot of inspiration for making funny means, but they’re basically infrastructure means that matter. And usually are, are funny. So if you want to check out our Twitter, that’s at Mojer hosts.

3 (41m 15s):
Okay.

2 (41m 16s):
I think I’m doing fairly well. Sows, thanks to meme generator,

3 (41m 22s):
Those things.

2 (41m 24s):
Obviously I try to make them useful as well as funny

3 (41m 26s):
Indeed. How do you envision infrastructure progress within the next five to 10 years? So that’s

2 (41m 35s):
Sort of a stab in the dark because we don’t know what we’ll get. Well, maybe eventually quantum computing will happen, but that’s sort of out in the future and it’s hard to predict what I think needs to happen is optimization. And it’s certainly going that way. So I think that’s content storage is definitely going to move towards a cloud and we are definitely angling to move in that direction as well. We already have some cloud cloud solutions available for our customers and several fully managed private clouds. And so, so the cloud is definitely here to stay.

2 (42m 18s):
Despite the fact that people are sometimes disillusioned with it, it’s, you know, it has its use cases. And then sometimes the dedicated server is better. It depends on the size of the project and what it is. What I think we’ll optimize is static. Content is easily going to move entirely to the cloud. So anybody who has a server, that server is just going to host the active files or the what is called dynamic files. And then static is everything that does not need any changes. So video files, photos, actual, you know, anything, that’s a static, we’ll go into the cloud and be stored there while the servers will have their hands on tied to handle much more bandwidth.

2 (43m 9s):
And it’s a bottleneck of constantly having to upgrade drives, you know, every six months or every 12 months is going to stop being a problem for most of our customers since the cloud is infinitely scalable, I believe this year we aim to expand our cloud to 10 petabytes.

4 (43m 26s):
Well, I’ve never heard that term.

2 (43m 29s):
That’s a very, very, very large number.

4 (43m 32s):
And what is it? How many terabytes is a petabyte? She’s thinking I can, I can hear the wheels going now. If you don’t know, you don’t have to say it’s okay. 10 millions. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don’t have to it’s okay. You know that, let me move on to the next question. What are some, what are some of the issues in hosting today?

2 (44m 4s):
A few, I guess part of the reason that hosting is making a lot of changes. And part of the reason why we introduced network wide DDoS protection is that DDoSs is becoming far more prevalent and the attacks are becoming far more intricate and unusual for sure. So this isn’t just a simple matter anymore and going forward mean the, I feel like it will grow and become even easier for businesses to, or for hackers to attack businesses because of the internet of things, of all things, because a very, very smart hacker can actually break into a doorbell or at an air purifier that’s connected to the internet and use that to attack your website.

2 (45m 2s):
Yeah. You know, not only that they would break into hundreds of hundreds of them and then start selling or start sending simple requests to your server to try to overwhelm it. And just the way that it’s going and how, how many of those devices are coming out now, it’s going to be easier and easier for them to do that. Oh, sure. So security, I feel like is going to be a major thing and a very important thing in the thing that will be actively developed aside from that the content is getting larger. So any infrastructure solutions that help deliver that content faster are going to be a big hit for sure, because you know, 4k files are larger and people are, you know, they won’t be happy with 720 P video.

4 (45m 54s):
No wait until when until 16 wait until 16 K becomes the standard

2 (46m 0s):
That’s yeah. So it’s going that way. Not to mention VR, we have several customers who have VR and those files are gigantic. And so nobody’s going to spend half an hour trying to download the one video. Nope. What they want is to stream it. And streaming video of that size really requires a local delivery, a local delivery from a node nearby that CDN allows you to set up. So what CDN or the, the, the term you stumbled upon during the introduction? Yeah,

4 (46m 36s):
I didn’t stumble. I was just messing around, but anyway, sorry

2 (46m 42s):
For content delivery network and a CDN cashews content worldwide, the content that is active and busy, what we call hot content. It gets cashed worldwide than anybody who is in that same location will get that content much more quickly because of the proximity to the server. You know, but with internet, one of the biggest limiting factors is how far things are because although things travel at the speed of light, those milliseconds add up during every hop that that data takes to get to your user and the less hops there are the better, obviously for local content, it will be much faster delivered and therefore there will be no lag and you will be able to stream it with no trouble.

4 (47m 28s):
Sure. Well, Natalie, I’d

1 (47m 30s):
Like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I really hope we’ll have a chance to do this again really soon. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation that the potential buyers may want to find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content number of images and videos. How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years.

1 (48m 13s):
If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports. Get all of the information organized in the legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything that a potential buyer needs to know such as are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts, et cetera? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale.

1 (48m 57s):
And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to shuck, Coon Sethi of tickle.life.

0 (49m 11s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Natalie Pannon. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry writer Ralph Grecco.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.

0 (55s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale that adult site broker we’re offering a rapidly growing hair, shaving site. The site shows women getting their head shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it is much easier to promote than most adult sites. The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they’re getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site that is a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation.

0 (1m 36s):
It handles the billing and rebuilding user information and video displays. There’s also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sale. The first month alone, there is no paid advertising. They go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos and social media. The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. This site has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars.

0 (2m 19s):
There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview, I guess today, an adult side broker talk is adult industry writer, Ralph Greco. Ralph, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Well thank you for having me. It’s great to be here. Great to have you. Now. Ralph is a professional writer of blogs, columns, reviews, interviews, fiction poetry. Let me get my breath songs, SEO copy. And one act plays for both mainstream and adult clients.

0 (2m 59s):
Now Ralph’s

1 (3m 0s):
Short fiction, both erotic and mainstream poetry and essays have been published in eight countries in major market magazines and small press and various anthologies and single author. Short story collections. Ralph’s one act plays have been published in a complete collection as they’ve been produced across the U S his self pen self-produced salicious songs and dirty words. Theater show have been performed off Broadway in New York city. I love that. I love that name now. Ralph was also an ASCAP licensed songwriter and recording artists, and he teaches classes across the U S at kink conventions.

1 (3m 42s):
Ralph just launched a music site, Ralph Greco, that’s spelled G R E C O music.com. And he has a podcast called licking non vanilla. I love it. Now, Ralph you’re, you’re a professional writer of songs, fiction, web copy, and plays. So a wide range of material. Do you have a favorite type of writing among all the stuff you do?

2 (4m 8s):
Oh, yeah, I don’t. I it’s a tough one. You know, it, it comes by, you know, assignment or, you know, I would say it’s always, I say this whole time, I say I’m a hack, basically, you know, the, the work comes in. I don’t, I don’t wait for the muse to come to come tickling my balls. You know, I’m going to do it when the work comes in. But I would say out of all the things I write, the thing that has my heart the most is the songwriting, but that’s something I do mostly for myself. I’m not usually commissioned to do that for, for anybody else. I was, I was in the game, the music business for awhile when I was younger and could fit into, you know, spend X pants.

2 (4m 49s):
And, and now that I’m older, I, I don’t pursue it in the same way. I’m still professional position and I’m still pursuing it professionally, but I, and you know, the music business has changed greatly, so I don’t pursue it in the same way. And it has more of my, my it’s more, I hate to use this word, but it’s more, more of the art for me than anything else. You know, that’s what it is.

1 (5m 13s):
Yeah. I think musicians who do other things, that’s always going to be their first love, and I probably could have fit into spandex pants too, but I would have looked terrible. Why, why is songwriting your favorite type of work?

2 (5m 28s):
That’s the curious expression, I think from what’s in my head and my, my marrow, it seems to come out directly, you know, I just get, get my guitar and I go, and, and also if I want to get that out or haven’t heard or performed or whatever, I can, it’s usually more direct. And I can see the reaction immediate from, from somebody who was listening, as opposed to write you write a short story. I don’t get to experience the people, the short story, see what they feel. Only if somebody writes me back and tells me if they liked it or not. So I think it’s probably just the immediacy of their, of, of what it is with the songwriting.

0 (6m 7s):
Yeah. Next time. We’ll have you have your guitar on, yeah. Now maybe we need a new theme song. Now, how did you get into erotic writing in the first place?

2 (6m 20s):
Well, I’ve always been a writer always, and I’ve been trying to publish for a while. What happened was back in the day. And there was, I guess this is like, I’m thinking mid eighties, mid to late eighties. I had a friend who was going to do some voiceover work for a guy who wrote, who were made 800 and 900 number Colin service. And it’s before him, before he had it all on servers, but it was not on the computer was you just call him. And some girl would, would be reading a sexy story. And when we went over to his apartment would cause she said, well, come with me. I’m not sure if this guy’s on the up and up. So come with me just to make sure. So when would this girl and her friend, and we met this couple and they were really great people.

2 (7m 4s):
And as we were there, she was reading some of the stories and he had me read some stuff in the stories and dialogue. And somewhere along the way, he said, we got to talking about it. If he needed a writer. And I said, I’ve, you know, I’ve been thinking about Radhika for awhile. I love to get into this. So I started penning 800 and 900 phones, prerecorded phone, SEPs, sex scripts. And that’s how it started. It was really funny, you know, back in the day when you could do that kind of thing, it’s not like that anymore, but what, it was a lot of fun actually, and a good, a good way to get my feet wet.

0 (7m 37s):
Well, I mean, I mean, besides a Ooh baby, baby, I’m getting wet. I mean, what

2 (7m 45s):
It was scenarios, you know, you set up a scenario right. In the 800 number, the 900 number was, was more explicit, the 800 number wasn’t. So there were certain specific rules to follow, which was a good challenge for a writer because you only write a certain parameter. And yeah, there was a lot of, you had to get to the, the meat of the subject, set it up and get to the,

0 (8m 6s):
Was that it was that the meat of the subject. Was that a punt?

2 (8m 10s):
Hell yeah. I can say it. You can say that, but so you’d get to, you get to this little slot a equals into slot B stuff quickly, but you had to sit there and it was typical scenarios, you know? Oh, a principal. I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t know that I, you know, I’m sorry that I w I was already three times this week school, you know, that kind of thing was that it was, you know, a lot, a lot of women frolicking and, you know, and, and

0 (8m 35s):
You’re gonna have to, you’re gonna punish me

2 (8m 39s):
Exactly, but it was, it was a hoot and a half. And the girl, the girl I went with was, it was a good friend. So she was fun and watching her read this stuff. And then the next time I came back, I gave him a couple of scripts and he bought them and I was on my way. That’s great. Erotic writing. Are you doing

1 (8m 56s):
These days?

2 (8m 58s):
Well, the fiction I do is pretty much niche based around BD BDSM, you know, spanking kind of stuff. But I do a lot of cross genre. I like to get fat higher in science fiction and erotic in when I can. All one story. And that’s, that’s what if you were to ask me what my favorite type of fiction writing, that’s my favorite type when I can, but I can mix that tire and either some sort of fantasy or science fiction element with erotica. That to me is really a hoot and a half. I really liked that a lot.

1 (9m 30s):
Okay. Now it seems like everybody, these days has a podcast, even me, what do you do to make sure your podcast is unique and worth listening to

2 (9m 44s):
That’s a real, that’s a real good question. And I, I’m sure you search for the same thing. Well, I do the club podcast with a fellow writer, M Christian, and he’s somebody I’ve known for a long time, a fellow erotic writer. And he’s also a guy that I teach the teach classes. When we have kink conventions. At one point we were teaching our classes there. And anyway, so we get on the podcast. I try not to, we were initially going to make it about erotica writing, but then we realized that’s a little too. Maybe it’s a little too tight. You know, I don’t know if many people are going to be able to tune in, but I don’t know how many people work. So we try to keep it as in as inclusive as possible.

2 (10m 27s):
And, and it’s, it’s interesting, but you have to, I feel you have to kind of take it away from yourself as much as possible and keep it relatable to the outside. You know, you know, think about the audience I’m always thinking about, because I think because I’m a performer, I always thinking about the audience. The more you think about somebody sitting in a chair, never heard this song before I have to engage them. Same with the guest something. And these people don’t know me. And like you just said, there’s tons of podcast out there. So at to be engaging and interesting and not. So this is just about me. This is just about what I’m doing. And a lot of podcasts I hear are the guy gets on and the girl gets on and they’re talking about their little minutia, the little world.

2 (11m 8s):
And I don’t know how interesting that is to tell you. And also we try to get on as many guests as we can.

1 (11m 12s):
Yeah. Yeah. The, the answer is, it’s not very interesting. And unless you’re a celebrity talking about minutia, isn’t really going to get you there.

2 (11m 23s):
I agree with you a hundred percent, a hundred percent. But the world we live in is, is that we’re, we’re used to tweeting and tweeting and posting about ourselves all the time. Right. And that’s what we do. And I don’t because I’m such an evolved human being, but that’s a different story. But, but what happens is that becomes this, this scent in this kind of this egocentric view of the world, that we have something that’s stated so important that somebody just got to come onto our podcast and listen to us because we’re such a hoot and a half. But like you just said, unless you were a celebrity, I don’t think it’s all that interesting. So you better make damn interest somebody and work hard to make it interesting as you know, there’s what you do.

1 (12m 4s):
Yeah. Well, I mean, my philosophy on it is I’m going to bring people on. They’re going to be interesting, like yourself to other people in, in our industry. And the key is to bring people from all aspects of the industry, plus offer something to them about what we do and give them free information, which we end are we end our podcast with tips on buying and selling websites. So if they want to buy and sell their own websites, go for it, man. Right. But that’s, that’s the best way. That’s the best way to give it away for free, right?

2 (12m 41s):
Yeah. I think, I think you’ve got a, there’s gotta be a reason that tuning in and, or saying, and not only doing end, but staying with you, staying with a whole pot, the whole episode, as much as coming back next week to listen again or wherever you’re going to be. You know, so there’s there’s but, but that the onus is on, I think that’s the thing. I think the performer and, or the podcast or whoever the onus is on us to deliver a hundred percent and we can’t ever forget that because that that’s really important, you know?

1 (13m 10s):
Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right now you also teach it kink conventions. What do you teach? And what’s that like? Well, when they had them,

2 (13m 19s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we, it was actually, we did Chris and I, our favorite class to do there was, it was a writing course. So we did an erotic writing course, which was, which was a food and a half. It really was a lot of fun. We did, we did, you know, various different. A lot of our classes are centered around a lot of soft core, you know, play and fun stuff and nothing. We w we didn’t do anything hardcore. Although those can come in, kink conventions can run from the, you know, the novice all the way up. And they usually do. They have a wide variety of people at them, but it was, it was, it was a lot of fun. And we, Chris and I got to travel across the country.

2 (14m 3s):
And because Chris lives in a different, he lives in Oregon. So I live in Jersey. So we would meet it certain like Vegas or St. Louis. And we met a lot of great people. We got to, you know, walk our books a little bit and get known. And it was, it was really a lot of fun. I met some of the best people ever at those conventions, because those are people who were there for a weekend to have a great time, let themselves have a little fun, but nobody’s, nobody’s taking anything so serious. And everybody’s, everybody’s real respectful and, and real, it was just, and, and we get to travel to cool places. You don’t go to Vegas for free. So Y you know, we’re having a great time. You know, I have a, I have a client in Vegas too, so it was good to always go there and touch base and say, hi, you know, so that kind of stuff was wonderful.

2 (14m 47s):
Absolutely wonderful.

1 (14m 48s):
Yeah. I used to think Vegas was cool until I went there for the 85th time. And then I was like, this isn’t cool anymore.

2 (14m 57s):
Yeah. Well, and, and I’m interested in, I think we all are in some way to see how, what, what happens now, you know, how things are going to return. And I think we’re, I think we’re all interested about that across the board. I try not to get my mind so much on any of that stuff, but it’s options, you know, that there’s going to be some, some interesting tweaks and shifts of the way we do things. So,

1 (15m 20s):
Yeah, I mean, living out here in Asia, I feel really bad for my brothers and sisters in, in America and other countries that have been hit so hard by COVID. I happened to live in the country that was, that has been affected maybe the least in the entire world and has maybe done the best job of dealing with it. So I, I consider myself extremely fortunate. Plus we’re not overrun by tourists. There’s no tourists. So while I feel bad for the people who work in the tourism industry, it’s like heaven right now.

2 (15m 58s):
Yeah, that’s true. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s definitely, I, I constantly know people, people were using that term, the new normal, and I say, there’s nothing normal about anything that’s happening, you know, nothing normal, you know, and, and I don’t think anything good is coming from, but either to tell the truth, but you know,

1 (16m 14s):
The only good things that have that are coming out of it, I think are what’s happening with the environment? Is that the environment isn’t being as damaged as it normally would at this point,

2 (16m 29s):
Correct.

1 (16m 30s):
You don’t have, you don’t have as many airplanes in the air. You don’t have as many cars moving around. You don’t. Yeah. I mean, it’s not as many boats that has many cruise ships. So the things that are probably the most damaging to the environment are being taken away for the time being. But no, I don’t, I don’t think the word normal is ever going to be what we consider normal. Again, I can’t, I can’t see it, but, you know, I’m sure there will be some good Ford as well. So what are the S in your, in your view, what are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about those of us who work in the adult field?

2 (17m 11s):
Hi, you know, one of the things is that dirty stuff is on our mind constantly. Now it’s on my mind constantly.

1 (17m 18s):
I was going to say, why isn’t that true?

2 (17m 20s):
It is true, but you know, we’re, we’re functioning, you know, we’re going around the day, you know, going into the grocery store and, and pet and our, our, our, you know, our animals and having dinner with our, with our folks. And, you know, like, we’re, we’re, we’re just like anybody else, because I say this all the time I live in, I live on a dead end street, suburban street, if you, and if I walk out out of my door and look at the, the many neighbors houses, I there’s Mo there’s a multitude of things going on. Those windows, you know, things that I probably couldn’t even write as good as what’s going on behind those windows as far as interesting sexual maneuvers and kinks. Right. So we’ll all involve some way.

1 (18m 1s):
Maybe you should knock, maybe you should knock on more doors. Well,

2 (18m 5s):
You know, because I know my neighbors anyway, so I know what’s going on, but it’s just funny to think that, you know, the first, the first reaction is, Oh, you write, you write that stuff, you know? And I’m like, well, first of all, everybody’s thinking this stuff anyway, everybody’s engaged in their own little ad, what they want or what they do and how to get it. And all that kind of stuff. The woman, I just happened to be more in the world of it. And also it would say, what’s that saying about the cobbler’s kids are not shod, you know, because you’re in the business, you’re not interested in, in it, in the sector the normal way. And that’s not true. I just have to say, my lip is no different or more, or less than just because I write this stuff all the time, but I don’t think it is my libido.

2 (18m 49s):
So I think that, you know, but we’re, we’re just normal people like everybody else, we really, we’re not, we’re no different than any, but we’re just doing a job. Just happened to be, this is the job we do

1 (18m 58s):
Since this is how we make money. Yeah. I’ve got to say though, I don’t look at porn the way I used to, not that I really spent much time looking at porn, but now it’s kind of like, you look at it as an insider and you look at it like, okay. And with more of a critical eye, and it’s a business. When I had a pay site, I started to get bored at looking at, at a women’s bodies. And I thought, man, that would never happen.

2 (19m 27s):
Well, he had the guy that <inaudible> thing, but I, you know, I don’t know. I, I think that I, well, I, I only, I only ever watched anything salacious when I have to review it or write for it in some way. I don’t, I I’ve never been a bitter devotee of porn and I’ve never even been interested in it in any kind of level. So the only time I watch it is nah, you know, is to, is to engage in it some way with the writing. So I, I, my, my viewpoint on it, it’s always been this been, Oh yeah. It’s whatever it is, but I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know if I would be any more interested or any less interested in it, you know, if I didn’t, wasn’t in the middle of it, you know, and you know,

1 (20m 11s):
Okay, so you do reviews. How do you like that?

2 (20m 15s):
It’s fun. You know, I mean, you know what I try to do, I try to, and that’s funny you say that word too, because I really do re consider myself a reviewer and not a critic. And I, and I think thinks is important because the people who make music or make a movie or make any piece of thing that they work in on, whatever, any, even if it’s whatever it is, I always figured let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. They went out there and they tried to make it. And whether you like it or not. So I try not to be, so I not, I try not to be a critic as much as a reviewer and enough in the review that if you, you may come to it or not, let you make, make your, your own mind about it and not try to be so hypercritical about it.

2 (20m 56s):
And I can be that way. Like anybody else, things set me off really well or not, but I just try not to be a critic because there’s just so much criticism of, of work. And I think if you have to, and you try to do the work, like you don’t, even, if the last thing you need is somebody criticizing it. So I try to be gentle and just review it, honestly, review it and say, this is what it reminds me of. This is what you may like about it. And this is what that’s that’s, as far as I go,

1 (21m 22s):
Are you, are you review reviewing? I can talk. Are you reviewing sites and also clips and movies?

2 (21m 32s):
Yeah, I do both, you know, I’m a little bit, and I reviews toys. You don’t get the toy in and review it a little bit and see if it works in the way it works. Yeah. That’s fun because you get to use it either. You get to have a toy and, and you know what, there’s a, there’s a sameness to certain things, you know, especially if you get into an, into reviewing and like niche content, you know, it’s going to go, you know, femdom, for instance, it’s going to have a same Instagram, you know, the same fact wall, but when you kind of, you know, you just kind of give it a, you feel fine, the nuances and stuff. But, but I, I enjoy that because I know somebody put their time and energy into it.

2 (22m 12s):
And I think they deserve at least a little bit of, you know, a little bit of my attention, enough of my attention. If I’m going to review it, it could be, you know, nice about it and not critical. Yeah.

1 (22m 26s):
Yeah, no, I get it. And that’s, that’s a good thing. Cause I’ve been both reviewed and criticized in some of my life’s work.

2 (22m 34s):
Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, you know, it’s hard enough as it is to even put it out there, you know, and, and get it done and put out there. And, you know, I don’t know if we, if we need to knock as much as well. I don’t think we need the false praise, but we also don’t need a jab. I mean, who needs it?

1 (22m 52s):
Absolutely. What, what review sites are you working?

2 (22m 56s):
I was writing, this was interesting. I write for a hot movies and what’s fun about hot movies is they would, they would, they commissioned me to write essay less about the review of the movies, but more an essay about a certain subject. And then within that essay, I would reference their movie. So they had, they bought a whole spate of a spanking movies. So they wanted like some Spanky one-on-one essays tutorials. So I wrote that and then I would, I would use grab their certain titles so they could put them in there, you know, for SEO purposes. So, you know, you see keyword searching, so what was writing for them? And that was what I w I wrote some toy reviews for cycled Tracy’s dog, which is, which is actually an agent site.

2 (23m 42s):
And so they sent me out some, some really toys. I mean, well-made, and you know, when I’ve worked for Adam and Eve to do some stuff, and I’ve worked for vivid back in the day, vivid was doing w dividend wicked would put, we’re putting in a lot of DVDs. They don’t so much anymore, but, you know, they have their, they have their content, so cool. And, you know, then it’s kind of like, whatever, whatever comes up, whatever somebody needs, I can kind of be plugged into it and figure it out. You know,

1 (24m 15s):
Keep that in mind. Now what’s been, what’s been the good and bad about the digital revolution as it relates to the adult industry.

2 (24m 26s):
Well, I guess the one thing is this kind of a thing, right? I mean, I could, I never would have been able to connect with people this way. Was it over a podcast and, or have my, my books, my eBooks read or seen, you know, years ago, I’d have to produce the book and print the book and have boxes of them in my basement. And now I don’t have to worry about this stuff. So the digital revolution, the facility and the convenience is just fantastic, you know, and it can have connectivity, but you know, at the same time there is a lessening of quality. Oh yeah. Because we’re, we’re going for convenience sometimes before we worry about an obsolescence there’s built in obsolescence and things with the digital world.

2 (25m 9s):
And, and then, you know, we, we, we’ve all experienced, this is a great pirating problem. You know, content is being stolen, put up other places, you know, and it that had, we have, you know, you know this, for sure. We’ve seen that, that come in and destroy, cut a great, big, pretty bunch of big, negative swatch through the industry in a lot of ways, you know, and a lot of people ran for cover. But then again, you know, we, we see this all the time. If you could make a better mouse trap and we’ve seen people who do, then you could make it. I worked with Neil at clips for sale for awhile. And, you know, he’s learned how to circumvent that digital thing where we’re taking content and putting it somewhere else.

2 (25m 54s):
He just, he said, well, you know, people want lesser amount of time and content. Let’s just make a site that people can load the pro the provider can load on here. So, Oh, and he’s done any, you know, I don’t, I know him a little bit. We’ve, I’ve had him on my podcast and he’s a great guy and he’s very, very transparent, very open. This is what I did. You want to come on? You’ve got content there’s there, there, there’s what we do. And so he built a better mouse trap seeing that the digital world was opening up. So, you know, I guess, you know, as well as I do, you can’t stop progress. So you just either have to find your way in there and do the things and take to the things that work for you and the things that don’t, you just, you don’t get involved with.

2 (26m 36s):
And I’m like that, like anybody else

1 (26m 39s):
Now, do you have a set routine as a freelance writer? Maybe you can describe a typical day

2 (26m 45s):
For me. Okay. Well, I get up and, you know, I have to, I have to negotiate between the two, whatever two buxom lasses have slipped, you know, sandwiched me at the, at the night. So I got to figure it out. So, you know, I never, I have to kiss the boat on a forehead cause you know, you never want to get out of the bed and make them feel bad, leaving the bed. It’s cold now. I feel terrible. So that’s the first thing. Then, then I hit, you know, I hit the, I hit the crack pipe for a while and do some blow. And then I get up in the morning, have some coffee. And I, I, it’s funny.

2 (27m 25s):
I can write right out of bed. I can get out by that sometimes.

1 (27m 28s):
Well, after that, after the crack and the blow, I would think,

2 (27m 35s):
But it’s funny, usually something, I, I get ideas like just this week will this state, you know, just as I’m getting up and, but I’m real good hitting the ground running in the morning. I’m real good at sitting down. And I usually have four or five different things on my desktop at a time that I need to get to. And I can usually hit the ground running and, you know, plow through coffee and a little bit of breakfast and just go until sometime in the early afternoon, when I hunger sets in and up, they go, Oh, maybe I should stop and go get something to eat or take a walk. But I’m pretty good. Mainly through the morning, into the early afternoon. And then like, if I have the podcast to do, or if I have a couple, I have some song stuff to do.

2 (28m 18s):
That’s usually when I break to do that, like rattle lunchtime, you know, so, but I usually hit the ground running, writing very early in the morning and just go, no, no, no.

1 (28m 28s):
What have been a couple of your favorite examples of your work?

2 (28m 32s):
Well, okay. I just put out a new, a new book that he put out with pink Flamingo, which is a company I’ve never worked with before called the name of that book is no whip, no problem. And what’s it called? It’s called no whip, no problem. And it’s a short story collection and that’s one of my more it’s by most recent work. And also one of my more favorite ones I’m trying to think of what else is, there’s a, you know, in the erotica fields, there’s a lot of stuff out there. I, I like, I tend to like the blogs that I write for looking non vanilla and then looking on below will say that right about two blocks a week. And they’re pithy and fun.

2 (29m 13s):
I have another column called the sex files, which is on a, a site in New York and LA and that’s fun. So in, and I have clients I write for, and, and I do a lot of ghost writing, non adult related ghost writing. I write bios and, you know, insurance, how to, and all that kind of stuff. And that ghost writing that I don’t, nobody knows that I’m doing that writing, but those books came up. There’s those books out and that’s, that’s mainstream that has nothing do with the adult world. And that’s a lot of fun because totally different, you know?

1 (29m 46s):
Yeah, absolutely. Now how has your real life different or the same from you?

2 (29m 52s):
Well, in the erotica, I lost a lot of, you know, well, I don’t know. I guess I’ll be as discreet as possible. I have had a rich fun heterosexual existence as younger. And so a lot of what I write about is either the fiction is either from those experiences or, or, you know, amalgamations of those experiences or fantasy from those whatever. So I had a, I had a pretty good run because I was in a band in my twenties and I went to a school that for girls to every guy. So, you know, things were good back in the day. So I was a bit of a re you know, I had some good times.

2 (30m 33s):
So I would say nowadays by white, my life is a little bit calmer. I’m older and a little, I like to think my, my sexual life is a little more nuanced now, but you know, back in the day it was like everybody’s role, well, full of piss and vinegar back in the day. So, but nowadays, and it’s interesting. I was just thinking to say, yes, this question, the fiction is more nuanced now because my, my life in general was more nuanced. So I think, you know, the art, you know, art reflects the fiction and the fiction fiction reflects art or whatever it is. I think that’s true in my, and certainly in my case.

1 (31m 15s):
Interesting. That’s interesting now. Yeah. You mentioned when we were talking before we went on that you live in New Jersey, you’re from New Jersey. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about your upbringing and led you to where you are?

2 (31m 31s):
My upbringing is more normal than you could possibly believe. I have, I have a younger sister, my folks are still alive. They’re in their eighties. It’s an Italian-American household in North. And I grew up on a suburban street where everybody knew everybody were in, all the kids were in the, in and out of each other’s houses, you know, and it was my, my, my little group, you know, Halloween time and St. Stickball. I mean, my growing up was idyllic. It was unbelievably wonderful. And I, my family is fantastic and I get along with everybody, everybody gets along with everybody else. So I was allowed a lot of freedoms and I was allowed to grow in my, my, my quote, unquote art, you know, and, and explore the things that, that were interesting, interesting to me.

2 (32m 22s):
And it’s been nothing but nurturing. So I it’s unconditional love. I’ve never known anything else in my life. And it’s, so I have a confidence level. Not, not, I don’t think I have, I do have a relatively solid ego, but I, I have a competence level from being the means. So having such good love in my life that I have, I I’ve been able to explore things and sometimes things don’t work out, but for the most part, I haven’t been able to explore things in and have the freedoms to land up limb, to do the work I do, and not feel ashamed or embarrassed by it. And, you know, and just, just try to treat people nice.

2 (33m 4s):
And that’s, that’s about it. You know, it just keep moving forward. You know, that’s about all, you know,

1 (33m 8s):
So, so where do you see yourself in five years from now?

2 (33m 12s):
I’ve been making inroads now to get the rent, to get my music done. And it’s been, it’s been a long road to get to that point. So that’s kinda most what’s most on my mind. I mean, I’m, I’m doing the writing to make, to make money and keep missing myself and beer and Skittles, but I don’t drink, I don’t eat Skittles, but, but I’ve been trying to, but right now I would say for the foreseeable future, I’m trying best. I can to put a lot of my energy into getting the music done, whether recorded remastered or mixed or whatever I have to do, but that’s kind of, what’s, that’s, what’s most on my mind right now.

2 (33m 56s):
And that’s where I would see myself in the next five years working, eh, working in, working in the writing, always, but working in the music, you know, more having a future and a goal set for that.

1 (34m 9s):
And what do you see happening in your immediate future? Do you have any work that you’re currently finishing?

2 (34m 15s):
Yeah. I’m trying to get books, a couple books done. There’s a book, there’s a memoir I’m writing kind of, it’s an erotic memoir. And, you know, I’ll probably publish that under a pseudonym, which will be the first time I do that. I have also write, I write with a buddy and illustrator. I read a children’s series of books, so that published, and then I have, I have another book music book, I’m, I’m getting in the middle of writing. And so I have a couple of things there, like, right. I gotta look, I’m bugging out, looking at the desktop right now. They’re just on the desktop always. And they’re just kind of looking at me and you got, you gotta finish this, you gotta finish this. You know? So those are the things that are immediate. If I can get those things done within the next couple months into the summer, I’ll feel like I’ve gotten over a hump.

2 (34m 59s):
So, and then whatever, all the other work comes in,

1 (35m 2s):
You know, you’re pretty typical of the creative types that I know. Do you ever feel like you try to take on too much?

2 (35m 10s):
Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t have, I really, I don’t think I have add or BLT or ELP, whatever it is. I don’t think I have any of that. I think what I do have is I just have I grow bored with one thing, you know, I’m in the middle of one project and I’m like, Oh, let me go over there for a little while and do that. And then let me pick up, it’s hard to do that. So, and I’m, I’m not so good at time management. So I have to really work at that. But when a job comes in immediately, I, I I’ll tackle that. I’m very good with emails getting right back to people because I, I have to be, it’s the only way I can, I can function is to, is to get right out and stuff. So I’m, I’m pretty good with, with getting the job done.

2 (35m 53s):
It’s just that the jobs that I need to get done for myself, you know, my books that are laying out there and stuff they’ll take a while because they do jump from one thing to another. So I don’t know if that’s a creative mentality, as much as it’s just what I, the way I, I have four or five folders that are open all the time, you know? So

1 (36m 11s):
I think it’s the creative mentality and I, I’m kind of the same way. So I completely understand that. There’s always a lot of stuff going on.

2 (36m 21s):
Yeah. Right. You know, you, you’re running, you do the podcast, you’re doing this and then somebody could come, he’s contacting you through your business to do this. And you gotta, and you gotta write a letter to this person. And there’s all that stuff going on. But I think that keeps me at least a week, you know, you know, cause it, I think I’m not sure because I always think, well maybe if I just worked on that one book and nothing else, I’d get that book done. And it’s probably true, but I just can’t concentrate that way, you know?

1 (36m 52s):
Yeah. I understand. I have a, like I said, I got a lots of projects that are, that are partially done. So I get it. Of course, some of that, some of that is some of that is development. But anyway, that’s another story altogether. You, you, you have more control over everything. And I, the things I do are, are always somewhat controlled by others, getting them done. Yeah. Other than the adult work, you do. Who else do you work for?

2 (37m 22s):
I work for a company called Harbor books and Arbor puts together me as the ghost writer. Somebody will come to them say, look, I want to write a book about my life. Or I was in the, I was in the dental business for 10 years. I want to write about that or whatever. They come to Auburn as a ghost writer. And one of my biggest clients is a late text of fact manufacturer called Donna matrix designs. And I write for her and that’s a lot of fun because that’s, it’s a little bit naughty, but, but Darren works on fees and she works on a whole bunch of stuff. So she works with lady Gaga and all these people that she, she kind of, she started in the kind of the fetish field kind of went around the back door and kind of now use, you know, doing latex and design differently.

2 (38m 8s):
I used to work for a magazine latex magazine, fashion magazine called Von Gutenberg. It’s not in existence anymore. He was an offshoot of Marquis magazine, which is a very thing anyway. And there’s a couple of the people that are right for on a regular basis were not mainstream or not adult in any kind of way. You know, there, there have to be naked, natural path. I worked for an at and a legal company, you know? So there’s a lot of that type of stuff. I don’t do any pharma or grant writing. There’s the two things I don’t do that takes specific writing, which I don’t have a talent for. And other than that, that’s so really you don’t, I always say I’m in the best sense of the word.

2 (38m 51s):
I’m a hack. You come to me, you have a job to do. I I’m, I’m down for writing. You know, that’s basically how I look at it

1 (38m 58s):
Back in a nice way. Now, have you, now, now, have you ever gotten a project that that’s been proposed to you where you’ve gone? No, I won’t do that.

2 (39m 9s):
The only time it’s happened is when something’s come across. And I know from the background of somebody told me something, or I learned from another source that the, the person whose project it is, or their company is problematic in, in, in ways that I consider them problematic. And somebody else may not. I mean, like in other words, they may not ever get back to you with emails. You have questions, although I’ll never get back to you. Well, that doesn’t help me at all because I have questions. I like to keep in constant contact with my clients. And because they could, they can get me anytime they want I’m available for email anytime. So some people, Oh, well, they’re not so communicative.

2 (39m 50s):
Well, that’s not going to help me. And then I’ve been in the middle of projects where I’m like, eh, couple of weeks in or a month in I’m like, we’re just not, we’re just not connecting. We’re not, and that’s fine because I always say no harm, no foul. I’m fine with that. I don’t want to spin my wheels or have you spin your wheels over, trying to make that square peg round hole. Sometimes it just doesn’t work. And, and I’ve been involved in a couple of those situations and that’s fine. That’s fine. Both mainstream and an adult. That’s fine.

1 (40m 25s):
So nobody’s ever asked you to write something that you just didn’t for whatever reason.

2 (40m 32s):
I’m not, I’m not nothing’s coming to mind. I probably, yeah, I don’t. Yeah. Nothing comes to mind at the moment. Just curious. Yeah, nothing really.

1 (40m 42s):
Now, if somebody is interested in either coming on your podcast or just in contacting you in general, how can they,

2 (40m 50s):
They can find me by writing my email, which would be I’ll spell it. It’s R a L P H I E D a writer. So it’s Ralphy writer@gmail.com and then they could also go to the licking non vanilla page, which is lucky, non vanilla.com. And that’s the podcast. And then, like you said, at the, at the outset too, you can find me at the music page, which is Ralph Greco, music.com. So that’s the three with three best ways to find me. I don’t have a lot of social media presence. That’s just a moral, a moral thing on my court. But yeah. So that’s the way they can, the best way to find me

1 (41m 31s):
Tell writer. So New Jersey

2 (41m 35s):
Writer@gbl.com, the writer come over, I’ll be out, we’ll have a little Kalamata. We’ll hang out. Don’t worry about it. You know, good about it. Have a good time. Forget about it means sometimes it just means to get about it.

0 (41m 55s):
Exactly. Sometimes it means, forget about it. Hey, Ralph, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again real soon. Maybe, maybe when your book comes out,

2 (42m 8s):
I love it. I love it. And you’ll be well. I hope everybody listening, stays well and their families are well and blow. We’ll get through this and thank you for having me on this was wonderful.

0 (42m 17s):
Fantastic, Ralph, my broker tip today is part four. What to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your site, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it later, trademarking, your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends. And if things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re more likely to be willing to pay more for the site.

0 (42m 59s):
Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes your site better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or viewport, be creative, not just one of the many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site. Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to my friend, Natalie PanIN of mojo host.

0 (43m 43s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Ralph Grecco. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (8s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Lianne Young.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.
First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. Pineapple support has a new support group bouncing back from burnout a six week course starting next Thursday, April 22nd at 5:00 PM Eastern time. What happens when the stress of our jobs, our relationships and our daily responsibilities began to take their toll on us.

1 (1m 19s):
How do we bounce back from a seemingly endless cycle of should be and to do in order to feel more invigorated and engaged with our lives. Burnout happens to everyone, but it doesn’t have to be your final destination. In this burnout group, they will explore different ways. Burnout can show up in our personal and work lives gained support around the unique stressors of being in the sex work industry and build skills to manage burnout more effectively. This group welcomes you to bring your overwhelm, your exhaustion, your stress, and your whole self without judgment feeling at your wit’s end.

1 (1m 58s):
So are we, the free speech coalition has released a statement about their past guidance recommending that performers who have been vaccinated for COVID-19 should still test for the virus. FSC also said this requirement could change. This is the FSC statement pass has published a vaccination resorts portal that addresses questions over testing details. New studies regarding transmission and ask performers to provide feedback via a short anonymous survey. We know everyone wants to return to pre pandemic shooting as quickly as possible said Ian O’Brien executive director of pass.

1 (2m 41s):
Our industry has done an exemplary job at preventing COVID on set. And we certainly realized the financial and scheduling burden of today. COVID testing. We asked that vaccinated performers continue to test for the time being as we work to evaluate risk with an vaccinated performer pool, while the risk of serious illness decreases substantially after a vaccination, the data regarding the potential for a person to carry and transmit the virus after vaccination is still unclear, passes. Also looking at the threat of newly emerging variants and working to understand actual risk on set.

1 (3m 23s):
We need to hear from performers and Cruz says O’Brien right now. We don’t yet know how much of the industry is vaccinated or planning on getting vaccinated, nor do we know how performers and crew feel about working with unvaccinated people or without a COVID test. The science is important, but our policies also need to reflect the needs of the industry. Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we are proud to offer one of the longest running adult review sites. The site is a true pioneer in the review space. It’s built a reputation for its quality of reviews with over 28,000 full and original reviews.

1 (4m 4s):
It’s a leader in this space. The site has a wide range of columns and photo galleries. The site is powered by a custom designed CMS, which enables a staff of reviewers to request titles for review, have them emailed and tracked, and then submitted as a review to the database. The flow is pretty seamless and has been rocking and rolling for many years. The team at the site is filled with adult entertainment enthusiasts. All of the sites marketing is organic, which is a tremendous opportunity for a buyer with a traffic network or who wants to purchase traffic all this for only $299,000.

1 (4m 45s):
Now time for this week center, my guest today on adult site broker talk is Leanne young of house of ardent and the Arden podcast. Leanne, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Hey, it’s great to be here. Thank you for having me. It’s great to have you now, Leanne is one of the UKs leading advisors on adult entertainment, sex and relationships. She started her mainstream career in 2002 appearing on shows such as the Jeremy Kyle show, the Tricia Goddard show, how to have sex after marriage and several other mainstream productions as a sex and relationships advisor and porn industry expert.

1 (5m 26s):
She’s also known for covering events, such as AVN. Ex-business the Prowler awards and other adult events around a variety of lifestyles in the adult industry. Leanne has a caring, positive attitude and a desire to help as many people as possible understand different relationships and life choices. Leanne always maintains the highest level of commitment to her work and to clients. Now, Leanne, at what age did you decide to enter the adult industry and why did you do it? Oh, I think

2 (5m 58s):
It was 1999 and I got into it because I was a single mum of two children. And to be honest with you, my relationships beforehand were, you know, very male dominated and to be honest with the sex, wasn’t great. And I suddenly met this great crowd and I got to actually know myself and realized I was pretty good at sex and Barbara enjoyed it. And it, I just got given the opportunity by someone to, I got introduced to the state and his paperwork could buy off to somebody. And I managed to write off to an agent before I knew it. I was on a porn set and I think the main reason was being, I was a single parent of two children living in a counselor state.

2 (6m 41s):
I wanted a better life for me and my children. And I didn’t have the ability to go to work nine to five, five days a week. And I wanted to do a job that I could fully enjoy and having sex with very high up on my life.

1 (6m 57s):
Yeah. I’ve always enjoyed it.

2 (7m 0s):
You tell me somebody who hasn’t

1 (7m 3s):
There are a few out there strangely enough, but there’s all kinds in this world isn’t there. So who was your first agent? How did you meet them and were they what you expected?

2 (7m 17s):
My first agent was JFT modals, which was managed by Jason Maskell and juice. Yeah. Lovely. Jason is fantastic. And you’ve got three that’s 20 years ago and I remember writing off and he was like rag me and he was great. And the week later, I’m up on the train going up to Wellingarden city to meet him. Now, I don’t know what I imagined, but I imagined like an agent probably being suited and booted and having these massive offices, you know, what you see on the movies? You know, the, you know, the fairy world and it was really different because he was just totally different to what I expect, but it wasn’t creepy.

2 (8m 2s):
You know, many people assume that you’re kind of poured into the porn industry. They come and kick that gear from your house or something. And what is true. That’s what people think. And he was actually a real gentlemen, absolute gentlemen. And I stayed at hides the night before he did a it on with me or anything that people would imagine. And he made sure that I knew exactly what I was doing, what was involved, that everything was above board. And to be honest, viewed probably one of the best managers I’ve ever, ever met.

1 (8m 33s):
Now. Now tell me some good memories about the business, some crazy memories and some bad memories.

2 (8m 40s):
Okay. So the great memories, I mean, my first ever shoot via Jason actually was for private and I kind of never, ever performed in my life. You know, I was a little bit nervous, but I was made to feel so much comfortable and it was in this big mansion house and there was, there was, it was just so comfortable and being naive enough. I didn’t know what half the moves were. So it was really, really hubris because, you know, they’re telling me to do stuff and I have to stop the camera go. What is it? What’s that mean? What does this mean? And it was, it’s a different language in the poor world. Yeah. And that’s what was really good and other great parts where, you know, I got chosen as the only other European to represent the whole of Europe in Hollywood.

2 (9m 27s):
It drew Barrymore’s old house actually for an event called sex of either 2000. It’s now available in Playboy. And, you know, I got picked out of the whole porn industry around the world. I was labeled the punk queen of England. And I came second because come on, you’re American, you know, British can’t come first. I mean, you guys and the television, we’re not late to be the winners on television and American production. Hollywood was fantastic to me. The Americans really were amazing. And I suppose the bad parts of the industry, you know, in every industry does have a negative part. Sure. You know, there was some people that kind of, you know, in your personal life would approach you and do things to you that weren’t appropriate.

2 (10m 15s):
And so I think I can’t really have a bad memory of, you know, of actually doing a shoot apart from it in the UK. On a few times, you are sent to, to do a shoot and you are under the impression, it’s just a straight boy, go shoot. And you get there. And they say, nobody’s anal. And you’re like, well, I don’t do anal. And they say, well, if you don’t do it, you’re going to have to pay for the production cost because it means that we’ve, we’re out of pocket. So, you know, so I, that, that’s a very big negative side to her. And, you know, I don’t, like I said, I don’t think I have any bad memories of actually before. I think, I think the bad memories come from people trying to take advantage of me being a performer.

2 (10m 60s):
Yeah.

3 (11m 0s):
Yeah. What about, what about some crazy memories?

2 (11m 3s):
Oh my gosh. You know what I mean? I don’t even know whether they were legal, go for it. Well, okay. So for instance, I’m at the AVN in Las Vegas and it’s like, you know, it goes over a few days and I used, I had, I, you know, I’m in Las Vegas. I wanted to get a little bit drunk. Right. So I went to the Playboy party and this nightclub. Yeah, well, I’d got a little bit drunk and I was a little bit wild. Don’t get me wrong. I was even introduced to Larry Flint is a naughtiest go everywhere over the UK. So I’m in this nightclub and chatting to these strangers from Florida and big party around champagne’s flowing.

2 (11m 44s):
But my feet were hurting from side of my autograph every day. And you know, I kind of needed to take my shoes off in a nightclub. So, so the banks who came over to me and he said, look matter, you can take anything else, but your shoes, health and safety went away. I know. So he comes back about 20 minutes later when I’m still trying to buy a whole group. And I’m absolutely kitty naked, everything apart from my high heel shoes. Perfect.

3 (12m 13s):
I saw it. I could, I could see where this was going, by the way,

2 (12m 19s):
That’s like crazy. I was, and he had to put me over his shoulder and I’m completely naked with just high heels on and never biked it. Like, don’t forget her clothes. She, then I just get excited. And you know, you can’t even go show your nipples in Las Vegas and I’m stood outside this club with somebody covering my nipples. Well, I quickly try and get dressed. So I did have fun. I had to do amazing fun and like doing the sex of over 2000, you know, that’s, that’s an adult version of big brother and that was not because halfway through to production, you know, somebody break the rules. So the shoot got put on hold and we act to make a team arrangement that, you know, yes, we’re for this, the rest of filming, even though it had been their contract with breech, not by myself.

2 (13m 12s):
Yeah. Well, one of the contestants Schachter director shack, the director of camera to try and win the show.

3 (13m 20s):
Sure. You said shag, you said shag. They thought, I thought you, I thought you, I thought you said shot. I, I, I should’ve, I should’ve, I should’ve, I should’ve realized you come from this same country as Austin Powers. And I got to listen for that language. So go ahead,

2 (13m 40s):
Lady decided to have the shag with the director. And of course this one, I liked vape. This went live over the internet because there were cameras everywhere, the big blubber. And so it was actually illegal. So the shoot got shut down and she got evicted or a husband started protesting on top of the house. And then we went on ABC, you know, and I was introduced as Lennox Lewis at the porn world, you know, and it just went back. We were filming day and night blind man’s buff. Oh my God. You know, I can’t think of other names that the games, but we were constantly shagging and I could not wait for the week to be over.

2 (14m 24s):
Cause I swear my love, I think I’ve done about 30 different scenes in a week. So yeah, we had, you know, we just had crazy times, is it? So, I mean, I’ve been to the Playboy mansion. I’ve traveled all over the world, India adult industry, and I’ve got to admit, I don’t have any regrets about my career. Good luck.

3 (14m 47s):
So of all those experiences, what was the most exciting you? Oh

2 (14m 52s):
God, I’ve done so many shoots. I tell you what it was the most exciting actually. And the most memorable really? Because I don’t know if you know the male performer Mark Davis. No of yes. Yeah. It was absolute legend. Well, we were about to do the first Everett first internet live streaming and it was for cousin Stevie and Seymour, but, and there was, there was me, her short average, Mark Davis, Bridget Kirkoff, and a few others. So, you know, it’s the first one ever going out live streaming.

2 (15m 33s):
So we’re on the set and I’m like, you’re really eager. British girl, you know, Jeff I’m Tiki. I needed the guys to make me have an orgasm before actually working. Otherwise I probably would have gone crazy. So I’m doing this first of a shoe and to where, you know, if you haven’t worked with Seymour and cousin, Stevie, they are the most beautiful people that were producers and directors. And so I’m swapping partners as you do. And then I’m going up and down on Mark Davis. Right? So imagine a scene, you know, people are in pairs, I’m on Mark and I’m, fusting like anything like Concord.

2 (16m 16s):
Right? Anyway, I misplaced myself when I came down the next, yeah. The next thing we hear was pop. I like broken Mark Davis is cock the King of the industry And became quite a sensation.

4 (16m 37s):
Oh my God.

2 (16m 38s):
So many I can think of, you know, from signing divorce regarding Vegas to a couple of phase and people a day to park here with the world’s finest adults does too. Oh, just to everything, you know, it, it, there’s so many fun memories, but they’ve

4 (16m 54s):
Yeah. Feel free. Feel free to share them. We got lots of time. What else, what else, what else stands out?

2 (17m 4s):
What else stands out? Okay. So I’ve done my first ever anal scene broadcast for a mainstream channel filming a whole documentary on me didn’t even mean to do it. You know, it was just, it just happened. Right. And of course they put that out on television mainstream. Yeah. To 8 billion viewers in the UK. So that, that kind of, you know, I kind of notice still that I’ve been on the Jerry Springer show because I’ve done porn.

4 (17m 33s):
Yeah.

2 (17m 34s):
I got my sight to him on British television that went down exceptionally well, of course be in the how wonderfully open we are not in the UK. Yes. Oh. And I’ve been to Cannes film festival. I’ve interviewed on the red carpet can for the adult channel, I’ve stayed at the most phenomenal hotels around the world and shot different scenes. And I was just very lucky that I got taken to the us and they were absolutely wonderful to me. Cause I know that not everybody can manage the, the American industry. I did. I kind of call the English industry a very cottage like industry because it’s quite, and you kind of know everybody and you’re just, you’re doing things with the same people over and over.

2 (18m 21s):
And you’ve got to remember when I was in the industry. It’s when DVDs were still going out, the internet internet was still in his infamousy. So I was having sex with the same people time and time again. So go into America was massive.

5 (18m 35s):
How did you manage to get there and are the rumors true about America being much harder than the UK?

2 (18m 43s):
I was at a camp film Fest for when I met an agent called Mark Spiegler. And instead of later today I got on really well with Mark and he’s like, you need to come to America. And I said, okay, I’m up for it. I went back to the UK and I said to my British agent, and it wasn’t Jason at the time, it was enough for agents. And I said, I want to go to the U S nurse said, yeah, we can send you over there. And I said, well, I’m actually go with Mark Fiedler, which did didn’t go down too well with my, I can imagine, Oh, well the fact of me with the Russian mafia. So yeah. So you can imagine it was a little bit of a crazy time for me. And then yeah.

2 (19m 24s):
So I emailed Mark some pictures and I got over to the us and my first ever shot was with ed powers and on his radio show. And he’s got a winner. So remarkably easy. And then to be honest with you, do you think the U S was harder? No, I think it was way more professional. Yeah. And I think some people would find that harder where as I kind of find it easier, I don’t think the guys are any bigger. I don’t think the works any harder. In fact, you were in a studio with full on direction and there were boundaries and I really, I don’t think it was bigger.

2 (20m 6s):
I don’t think it was hard to us. In fact, I barely worked in the UK industry again after that, because I liked the way the Americans work. I worked five days a week. I made sure that I had two days off a week. I kind of found the shoots shorter and I don’t think they were far more glamorous. You know, you’ve got hair and makeup. You’ve got catering on set. Nobody was drinking or taking drugs. That was fully forbidded on set. And no, I, I was, could be longer. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I remember being on a short Sean Michael shoot one time and I was there for 18 hours.

2 (20m 50s):
I’d buy nine of them with waiting around. So God knows why I was caught so early. And then it was stop, start change had to change lighting or 18 hours later, I got off, but it wasn’t safe. And I think people don’t understand it. They get these 20 minute segments, some they’re DVD or TV or whatever. And normally within that 20 minutes, you’ve got five different positions, but to make that can take us all day, but people kind of, you seem to think it’s an easy job for good money. And they don’t actually understand the preparation that goes into it.

2 (21m 33s):
The hard work that goes into it and the self investment, because you’ve got to be in good shape, you’ve got to be healthy because there’s, there’s one thing that doesn’t work is if you are into drugs and drink, especially in my day, if you turn up to set with a hangover, they’re not interested if you turn up on set and you’re not with it, and you’re not a hundred percent on full that you won’t get used again, your reputation is everything. And I think people just have this whole belief about the industry being full of drugs and drink and offset. Maybe I don’t know what the other adults does done in their private lives. But for me, I was very, very into my work and about looking after myself.

3 (22m 20s):
Yeah. And I think that, well, first of all, when it comes to thinking a 20 minute scene takes 20 minutes, it’s like a feature film, you know, and it’s, it’s an hour and a half or two hours that takes more months.

2 (22m 36s):
I know people don’t get that mean. We’d go wait for five days to film some scenes. People might only sleep for 15 minutes and yeah. And people don’t understand that. I don’t know if it so much like that today. Not many big feature films are done these days, but in my day it was hard work.

3 (22m 58s):
Sure. Sure. Now, what is your, how do you feel about the public having that image of, of adult actors being druggies, alcoholics and all of the above?

2 (23m 14s):
Well, it’s very naive and I think that what’s happened is governments and media is censored them to reality. And people need to realize that they need to realize that they’re watching the news or read the newspapers. They’re reading other people’s thoughts on it and taking it as fact when in fact it’s not fact. Yeah. That’s that’s yes. What sense of ship is about censorship is about control and people getting them to believe that something’s good or bad. I mean, there’s never an in-between the government and the government and the media is either good or bad. And you know, people live, people have kind of been brainwashed with the fact that, you know, and I’m going to touch this subject ever since the word came back, child pornography, it’s kind of, everybody says the word pornography.

2 (24m 6s):
Right. So they think that the porn industry is related to child pornography when it actually couldn’t be further from the truth. Yeah. Now I w I worked beside them at places and I breached her. I’m a CA I’m a counselor for the industry. And we, I, I say to them, I don’t like it being called child pornography and nor do they, they call it child sex images or child abuse, sexual abuse, you know, because they don’t want the lines to be crossed. However, the media aren’t going to the industry, they just don’t. So,

3 (24m 38s):
Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, look at, look at that article that Christophe did in the New York times in December, the one on porn, the one, the children of porn hub, he actually did too.

2 (24m 50s):
Yeah. I mean, I do understand that PornHub on age verification, every production, okay. That belief in the people that actually upload the content or studios. Right. So they kind of needed some colors, you know, maybe, but, but in England it’s been no different for the whole, for the whole decade. And I’ll tell you why, because in England we have the BBFC okay. They kind of the ones that had to monitor every fitness when I on our 18 or 18 and they make the decisions. Now, if they want, for somebody who is under age, they were able to ask for the paperwork.

2 (25m 30s):
They’ve never once. Yeah. But they’ve never once done it ever. And they, and

3 (25m 36s):
That means the industry self-policing, which is good, which, which is what, which is what happens in the U S too.

2 (25m 42s):
Yeah. So that’s exactly what’s happened. But with PornHub, I just think that, you know, people thrive on negative news and I asked her to, and I’ve written for several newspapers and I, and I asked a major journalist once I said, so why can’t you just write something good about the industry? And that goes, good news. Doesn’t sell. If, if, if Joe blogs wakes up and read something about their neighbor doing a good deed, they’re like, so what if you tell them that Nate was a murderer, then they’d go and talk about it.

3 (26m 14s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you’re absolutely right. You’re absolutely right. Sensationalism has always sold. And that’s as, that’s a lot older than we are the unfortunate part of this whole PornHub thing is it reflects on the entire industry. It makes, it makes everybody say, well, porn is bad. You know,

2 (26m 34s):
Cohen’s been bad in the public view for decades, for centuries. You know, England has one of the strictest rules on pornography. You know, we can’t do any face, sit in, we can’t do any fish. Then we can’t do this. You know, all about chip. It does. Yeah. It drives me. Absolutely potty. I’ve sensitive is over here. It’s never had a positive view is it’s really hard because England,

3 (26m 60s):
It could be worse. You could be Japan.

2 (27m 3s):
Oh yeah. Do you know what? Do you know what? I must be doing a person in history. There’s printed, Japan’s red light district. And I find it rather, boy. Yeah. I find it really.

3 (27m 13s):
It didn’t do anything for me there actually the Ginza. Yeah. It didn’t do anything for me either.

2 (27m 18s):
Yeah. I mean, I love going to Bangkok. I go to a place called Nana Plaza and I’d go to a bar. I go to a bar called Spanky’s

3 (27m 27s):
And

2 (27m 29s):
One of my favorite places in the world. And I go there, I can go on my own. I’ll have a few drinks. I’ll tip of a pay for guys to have lap dances. And they’re like, what’s going on? But it’s only like two Pang 50 year ago. And then I get a little bit drunk and then I say, can I get off stage now? Love Spanky’s. But anyway, going back to like, you know, the industry of beer itself regulated it is, but there’s always going to be a bad Apple and there’s always going to be, and that’s partly why I do cancel them because you know, lots of people hide beyond the industry.

2 (28m 10s):
And then the industry gets blamed. Yep, indeed. And I say 95% of the industry is absolutely very professional and people could learn from it.

3 (28m 24s):
Yeah. So now how, tell me the whole story. You mentioned, you were known as the porn queen of the UK in the year 2000. Tell me the whole story on that.

2 (28m 35s):
Okay. Well, I got selected to represent England over in the U S in this lab in, you know, like the big glove right. Over it version. But before it got into adult, or we used to work in the probation industry, so obviously I had a bit of a name, I’d go, all the newspapers used to write about me and they find out what I was doing. And they were like, Oh my God. And then it got sent centralized. This got put all over the media, that I was a pawn queen of England now working for Playboy over in the U S so it was really massive, but I think what it was, I was so professional. I literally overnight became a sensation because the papers had written, I was an excavation officer and then documentaries will get a made on me.

2 (29m 19s):
I was invited onto every chat show. And I think what it was is I handled myself exceptionally well in the media so that when I was getting interviewed or was getting questioned, who I was appearing in public, I wasn’t, well, I wasn’t on drugs. And I was a sensible mother. Who’d had a previous job, which was a very strong position. So I think what happened is immediate don’t mind hoping somebody’s that stable. Yeah. And I think I came across very steep when the media took me on as a porn queen of England.

3 (29m 53s):
I love it. I love it. Good thing. They weren’t at that Playboy party in Vegas. Now, what was a video that wouldn’t have gone over well? So what was, what exactly was sex survivor 2000. And why was that your last act in the U S

2 (30m 12s):
It was the big brother, you know, like doing 30 scenes in a week was a little bit much, and also happened to deal with all the crap of somebody breaking the rules, a disrespect. And then I had to go to Vegas straight after and sign my autograph. I was just exhausted. I was exhausted. And also, you know, something happened to me in the industry that I can’t actually talk about it at the moment. Cause I’m it’s is invoked a court case, but it was, I just realize it, no matter how big you get and how hard you work, there’s somebody ready to take advantage of you and I never, and I think, and I think in the industry that a lot got swept under the carpet, if I’m quite honest with you, whereas ever something that happened to me that happened to others as well, because this person with a big name.

2 (31m 10s):
Yeah.

3 (31m 11s):
Oh, that guy. Okay. I think, I think, I think I figured it out. He’s he’s in our new section a lot. Oh God really? Oh my God.

2 (31m 22s):
Of the other European person in volts, you know?

3 (31m 24s):
Oh my, I was, so I was wondering what could be going on since, since 2000, but you’ve told being, so anyway, go ahead.

2 (31m 31s):
Yeah. You know, I’m not, I like to wait, probably discuss it or no, obviously at the moment. And you know, when I went to approach somebody about all that and people witnessed it, they’re like, Oh, that’s just how he is. And I’m like, hold on a second. This is just fucking half my mate language. This is just fucking happened to me.

3 (31m 50s):
This is an adult show. You can say, fuck, you can say, you can say, you can say all the words that church Carlin said, you can’t say on TV here.

2 (31m 58s):
Oh, fantastic.

3 (32m 1s):
No, that’s fucking fantastic.

2 (32m 4s):
Fucking fantastic. And so I think what happened is, you know, that happened to me, nobody listened. I went to Vegas and like I said, the work of an adult star, you know, on that level, it’s huge. The pressure is huge. And then people starting to forget that, you know, they bowled your whole private life into your work life. And then you just become this, this poor actress, you know, you don’t, people don’t respect you or understand that you actually a mom or anything like that. And it just, I think after that happened is like political brief face. When he’d done the survivor show went down to Las Vegas. Under my interview, came back, absolutely just wiped out.

2 (32m 45s):
And all I wanted was my kids and a family life. I just needed to. I mean, the only hug, you know, it wasn’t dating. I was one that didn’t date when I was in, I don’t actually, I didn’t think it was morally. Right. And yeah, I needed, I needed time out. I needed time out after that. And plus he, internet was coming in and I, and I wasn’t one to do webcamming. I believed that I had two children. I knew they were going to come of age where the internet would be a major part of their life. And I wanted to retire before they even had an engine of that happening so that, you know, not, not so I could avoid the situation, but mainly more so that I could control the situation.

3 (33m 32s):
Yeah. That’s smart. That’s smart. So you got out of the industry and after you’re retired, how did you feel and what did you do

2 (33m 41s):
Last driver? Tired? I realized no, there was no female agents in the world. So I, I started managing British stars and sending them over to the U S and making sure that they were professionally looked after that the other combination they had drivers and somebody started representing the top English female performance from the year 2002 till like 2004. And then there was, then there was an HIV outbreak in 2004 in the American industry. I pulled all the models out and that’s when I just said, do you know what? I’m not doing this anymore?

2 (34m 21s):
And I need a different life. And yeah. So know

3 (34m 26s):
You didn’t want to, you felt like you were putting him in danger and you didn’t want to do that.

2 (34m 30s):
Absolutely. And if there, if there is one thing that doesn’t happen and the professionalism and started sliding because the internet we will see was taking over. So budgets were getting lowered, stuff like that. And that what people don’t understand is there was no health and safety and, you know, unless models get self-insured, they have an accident on set or injured. That is, they were in cost. And I wasn’t willing to take the risk of having a, my conscience, any female, even if it would have been their own fault, captain HIV. And I just couldn’t, I have had to sleep at night.

3 (35m 8s):
Sure, sure understand. So when did you become a counselor for models worldwide in the adult, in the adult industry?

2 (35m 17s):
That was only fairly recently actually. I mean, I lived in Austin, you know, what I done after the time after retiring from managing models is I got trained by the family planning association, which used to be our sex education board. And they were really happy that I’d approached them. We kind of learned from one another and the next thing I want every channel being a sex experts on relationships shows. It’s great. So I got, I got quantified in, you know, online infidelity sex education, you know, for boys and girls separately, teenage pregnancies. And I worked on TV for a long time.

2 (35m 57s):
However, in the background, I was also getting qualified in fitness and managing a couple of gyms because I do, you know, I want it, I did it. I want a fake fame, hungry star. Sure. I didn’t mind talking to my knowledge, but I did. I didn’t need to be a major celebrity that, you know, I just couldn’t be bothered to be quite honest with you. And then I moved to Australia in two phase and alert 11 to have a break from anybody knowing me. And it was so refreshing because everybody had known me for a decade. And I didn’t even kind of know my own density for while because you’re, you’re this person that everybody has an opinion on and a view and a judgment.

2 (36m 41s):
So I went to Australia when nobody had thought of me. And for eight years I stayed in Australia managed companies. And when I was there, I, you know, the radio station started realizing my past and I went on a few shows and I said, what, you know, I’m qualifying to be a counselor and the seed got planted there. So I started studying and then I moved back to UK and yeah, I got asked if I would counsel the industry. So that was in England first board. And I felt like there were the fake HIV certificate being allowed to float around in the UK industry.

2 (37m 21s):
And I’m not going to lie that as you can imagine. So I teamed up with a PAC union in the U S with a lot of Evans and I’ve been a counselor for them ever since. So for like four years. So I actually, I’m going to be part of the union on the American board as well. So, you know, I look after, yeah. So looking after the American and the English industry, you can imagine, you know, it’s hard, but if I’m the only person who is qualified and have the experience of entering being in the industry and intern and transitioning out, that’s what models need. They don’t need to being canceled by somebody who still work support industry that defeats the object.

2 (38m 4s):
And with the English industry, they actually blocked me and my fellow counselor coworker is also a former actress. He retired, you know, about 15 years ago, Kelly Stafford. And she got qualified as a counselor as well. But because we, we caught them out that there were the fake HIV’s got going around and the girl had been attacked in a hotel room and nothing, nothing was done about it. And I just said, that’s not good enough. And so I was getting really frustrated in the UK that they were blocking just because they had an issue with me and this other counselor, they blocked us services from the industry.

2 (38m 47s):
And so we look after our own models now, to me, that’s not good enough. So I actually approached the met police, sexual violence unit. And I explained the situation. I said, look, I’m concerned that they don’t have an Avenue to report any instance. The industry is very close and he tried to keep it. In-house when I read stuff going on, I need to open a pathway and be an outreach so that they can speak. If they don’t want to go, let’s be honest with you. I’d experienced 20 years ago that I couldn’t go to a coffee shop after I was attacked. So it’s no different in the UK. Now, you know, of girls who were abused or taken advantage of onset, they, they, they don’t want to walk into a police station say, Hey, I’m a porn star.

2 (39m 30s):
I was just on set. And they don’t think I never gave him permission to, that’s fine. I’ve got to look at them and go that really know what that goes under. So what I done is I, I I’m teamed up as an outreach for the metropolitan police in the UK. And now it says any incidences with any other industry, they can come to me and I liaise and we meet out of uniform and I get them to chat to the ma to the head of the sexual violence unit. That’s awesome. And it’s taken, thank you. And it’s taken real seriously. And I work with a lot of other charities like open doors and they look up street sex workers, which has written dramatically during COVID because obviously people, people come, people are net visitors in their house.

2 (40m 20s):
So they’ve gone to street prostitution. I worked with outreach as you know, just, you know, help them with advice and stuff. And then, and then there’s other projects like survivors UK is by male sexual abuse. And I, I kind of work with whichever charities can gain from my knowledge and performance can get access to help, help for facilities.

3 (40m 44s):
Hmm. That’s wonderful. So, yeah, I bet you do. I like what you’re doing. So, so how did you manage to skip over from porn to the mainstream media?

2 (40m 59s):
I think my way was, was owning my past. Not letting anybody dictate to me about what I should or should not done. I made it perfectly clear unless they were paying my rent nature, keep their mouth shut. You know, they haven’t walked a mile in my shoes, let alone an inch actually. And I owned it and I laughed at myself and I said, do you know what? Yeah. Some people must’ve thought I was a right Slack or a slut or yes, there was things I would do differently, but I’ve always maintained. I have absolutely no regrets about my path. You know, now I’ve got more wisdom. I probably would’ve done a few things a little bit differently, but I owned it.

2 (41m 41s):
Never deny it. I mean, what you were in mainstream television, even being on one show, the media, know your past and what you’ve got to learn, is it any publicity is publicity. You’ve got take away the negative. You’ve got to stop worrying about what other people and online trolls say about you because they don’t contribute anything to my life. Right. So if they’re doing a negative, competent comment, then they’re investing in my life. So it kind of says a lot about them, not me. Yes. At least the stuff that I done I own.

2 (42m 22s):
And I take responsibility. And even if the press say former porn queen of England, which they still do 20 years later, I just, I laugh and I actually ring them up. Gum really still got like that one. They’re like, well, it sells. And I’m like, okay. So I’ve got this really, really friendly kind of a pool with the newspapers and journalists because I own, I pass and I have a laugh and they’ve got nothing on the tablet. Absolutely

6 (42m 54s):
Got nothing on me. I said, they

2 (42m 56s):
Made you. In fact, my public, my, my, my publicist. He actually worked at the sun as a major journalist for 20 odd years. My other friend used to run the sun for 25 years. I’m really good friends with the media. And the simple fact is, is because I laugh at myself and I already know that one day newspaper is tomorrow’s day chip paper. So it’s about not holding onto it, but I’m able to laugh at myself. And when I’m on TV, people realize that I’ve really educated. And I think it shocks them. I think what it is, people have this impression of an adult star.

2 (43m 39s):
So when they’ve got an adult star on their show, they are looking in inside yourself in their mind, in their programmed censored mind that I’m going to turn up with big fake tits, long blonde hair, extensions and stripper shoes. When in fact I’m five foot free, used to be for free. It must be getting old. And I normally wear tie-dye hairs and I’ve got shoulder length, dark hair, and I wear a minimum makeup. So I’m the complete opposite to what they imagined. And I think that is what interests people. And they’re like, Oh my God, you, you proved me. You prove to us it actually, our image of an adult story is completely not right.

2 (44m 22s):
Exactly. Exactly. And I think, yeah, I mean, you know, the figures as well is like I retired from porn 20 years ago. And so they can’t let, is, most media will like to chat to adult stars that are still in the industry to, but with me, I’m like, yeah, you can grab one of my old pictures if you want, as long as I know which one it is, I don’t mind. You know? And when I say, you know, 90% of my mainstream career has been absolutely wonderful. I had to Sue a newspaper some years ago because they actually got a picture of me and put it against a fake story. Say I had an ASCO antisocial behavior against it’s called an ask boat.

2 (45m 8s):
And they said that I’d been caught having like sex. And I had to criminal conviction. However, what made me so annoyed when I wouldn’t give a shit about the lions balance, your new, or is, you know, defer the truth. However, I was under contract to an, to a TV channel ITV, which one of our major channels. And they were back to drop me from two shows and I had to say to them, no, look it is crap. And I very fortunate. My life’s been very fortunate was actually kind of having a relationship with somebody that owned most of the local regional papers.

2 (45m 51s):
And he took me to the Queen’s lawyer

4 (45m 54s):
To the Creek,

2 (45m 57s):
Had a very interesting life. So I went to the Queens lawyers and I said, it’s it’s defamation and slander. It’s not true. And they haven’t even used my correct name. And they said, okay, well, you need to, we’re probably the wrong lawyers, but we’re going to put you in touch with a top entertainment lawyer who will do it on. I think it’s like, I think it’s called pro bono. Yeah. Contingency. So they put me in touch with the main lawyer that looks after all the mainstream performers, actresses and stuff like that. And he just basically rang up the newspaper and said, I’m on 800 pounds an hour. Is your cost not her. This is defamation.

2 (46m 39s):
Yeah. And the paper tried to say that I had a bad reputation because I’d done porn anyway. And I said, I don’t give a shit what reputation I got you liked? And you’ve put my picture right. There speaks more volume than words because image imagery does. Yes. And, and they tried to get out of it, but it was 800 pounds an hour. So we arranged a high court date in the high court with London and I was willing to take over it away. I don’t mind, you know, I, I’m not, I’m not at fault. And being an excavation officer, you can only imagine the willpower. So they settled an hour from the hearing and the high court of London settled out of cool.

2 (47m 22s):
Nice. And I have never Gretz about it. And I S everybody said, if you Sue a newspaper or, you know, come back to haunt you. No, it doesn’t. Do you know what all it does is let you know, never to be made a fall off.

3 (47m 36s):
Exactly. And you won’t, you won’t, you won’t hear and you won’t hear from them again. So there you go.

2 (47m 41s):
Never again. And the best thing is it’s like, you know, just because you’re a porn actress or actor or any kind of sex worker, it should not take away. The fact that what somebody does to you is legal. You are still under the same law. We are still under the same protection act as anybody that may be a police officer, or where can a bank, your career should definitely not have any influence on how you are treated.

3 (48m 13s):
Exactly. Just, just like that guy’s name we can’t talk about in the States.

2 (48m 19s):
Fuck you enough. I’ll give you another interview when all that’s filled up. So yeah.

3 (48m 23s):
Yeah. Oh, definitely. I want to hear that for sure. I want the exclusive on that. So, so what advice would you give to others in the end?

2 (48m 34s):
Okay. Right. Kind of got different advice for people going in in it and wanting to get out. If you’re going to go into industry, just be prepared that once you have the sex industry, it never goes away. Now, I don’t mean that by saying people won’t forget, you dumped porn, you yourself went forget you’ve been a sex worker. And once you’re able to turn your emotions on and off, which every sex worker has to do, it’s very hard to undo that skill. Yeah. And it can affect every ongoing relationship, even if it’s with your parents, your children or partner, because you’re able to put your emotions aside.

2 (49m 17s):
So you do have to be aware that when you go into the industry, you know, you’re going to learn a new set of skills. And, you know, they may not all be positive for people in the industry. What you have to remember is, you know, you know, you’re either got a short shelf life or you, or you do it for good. This is a career because it is a career, right. It can be however, learn about marketing because you’re up against millions of other people. And if you don’t have a business sense, you can’t run a business. And if you’re an adult star, you’re an enterprise, you’re a business. Yes.

2 (49m 57s):
So it’s about building yourself as a business, right? And you can’t run a company. If you cut corners, you can’t cut a company. If you’re going to act illegal, you can’t run a company. If you don’t have duty of care, health and safety insurance and stuff like that. So my bias is don’t consider, don’t even worry about what career you’re doing. You know, w you know, to you, you are self-employed yes. And therefore you should get yourself covered for every instance. And if you’re in the industry and you’re looking to get out, you have to understand that the transition period, you can’t just hop from one industry.

2 (50m 39s):
There is very emotionally challenging, and then go back into society because it can destroy you. There’s a lot trawlers or nine that will come for you and attack you. Now, Jess, like it’s school is a young age. I think emotions should be educated to youngsters, that we have different emotions and we have different reactions and that we’re responsible for our actions and reactions. And not that. And I think with the industry, that should be them reeducate. And if they haven’t learnt it already, I think what we do in APAC union is we have different seminars online. And we want to make sure that they know new skills, marketing, understand, not everybody is going to like you.

2 (51m 27s):
And that’s absolutely fine because it would be boring if everybody did true. And I 20 understand and imagine they are behind a keyboard. You’re not responsible for their actions. No matter what your actions yourself has been there, all they do is react to your action, but their action is putting you down. Does that make sense? Yeah. They’re just behind the keyboard with shit all out to do. So what they do is decide that their life isn’t that worthy and they want to invest best time in someone else. Sure. It’s like having free rent in somebody else’s mind. Don’t take it seriously because what somebody likes or what somebody speaks is how that person is inside.

2 (52m 12s):
And if they’re not a nice person, they’re not a nice person. What we have to do is have like a barrier up around not barrier. That’s probably the wrong word. I have a mirror pretend you’ve got a mirror in front of you and bunks that reflection back on to them. And then you’ll know what type of person they are. You got learned. Not don’t take things personally. Yeah. What do not overwork? Because people seem to think, you know, when you’re in the industry, yeah. You just want more work, more, work, more work. I want to do this. I want to do that. Well. Or you’re in a position of turning your emotions on and off, you kind of put your mental health to the background. Sure. However, our own bodies do suffer some form of post a tumor later.

2 (52m 60s):
And that, that doesn’t mean that’s from the industry in the job you done that could be reflected on you being able to turn your emotions on and off. And that can come back to the trauma later in life. And if they are looking to get at the industry, chat to somebody who has successfully moved on from the industry will know how you’re feeling. That’s a good idea.

3 (53m 26s):
That’s a real good idea. So I hear you’re writing a book as you certainly should. When is it coming out?

2 (53m 38s):
I, Oh my God. Look, dang. I’ve got a little bit lazy. The first one that will be coming out is an advice book. So, you know, there is a bunch I haven’t covered from sugar daddies to porn stance to bins, single mother to having disaster state. So my first book actually is going to be an advice book and I just share a bit of my life story and never not much, but my autobiography will be coming out later because it’ll probably coincide with the court case over in the U S

3 (54m 9s):
Ooh. Yeah. You got to wait for that to resolve first.

2 (54m 13s):
I’ve got to wait for that to resolve first and

3 (54m 16s):
Guarantee guaranteed bestseller,

2 (54m 19s):
Guaranteed bestseller. I know, right. It’s like, so I’m actually kind of quite enjoying a little bit of a, to life, get a decorate and done and doing kind of little mundane things at the moment, but I’ve got my own TV show starting in April in relationship show. So I’m really happy with that. And then my vice book, I want to get written. What do you know what it was meant to get written by March the 30th of however, being the work in the industry? I do. I’m very well connected. And as you know, I normally cover AVN and ex beers and a Prairie Lou awards. And I also interview at pleasure product events, you know, and they’re massive, you know, it’s one of the biggest industries and work well, I’m, I’m one of the fortunate ones in the world, especially from England, who’s traveling to Mexico in a week’s time.

2 (55m 15s):
So I’ll go now for one day’s work, but extending it for 10 days. I need some sunshine. I’ve been in England winter, and I’m cold and I need a holiday. And so this might refer to you probably isn’t going to happen when I finished by advice, but the new tax year starts in April. Right. So yeah, my book will get done by the end of April.

3 (55m 39s):
Okay. We’re going to hold. We’re going to hold you to that.

2 (55m 43s):
Yeah. And then we can have a little chat by that. Cause there’s like 20 different chapters of all different things.

3 (55m 47s):
Oh, I tell ya. Absolutely.

2 (55m 51s):
I’ve got, I reveal ODI, slight bits about myself in the book, but it would also Brit across my personality, but it does give the good and bad of different sex and relationship situations because like, you know, not everything can be good. Not everything can be bad need to have that balance.

3 (56m 10s):
Absolutely. Balance balance is always number one. Well, Leanne, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker tuck. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this. One of the book comes

1 (56m 24s):
Out. Absolutely. I’d love to. It’s been fantastic. Thank you. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, find new ways to monetize your website, such as sell advertising. If you’ve got a free site, like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site. If you have a tube, another way to make more money is to sell premium memberships, offer free users, one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality or longer videos or both. You can also make the site ad free for premium members. Start an affiliate program.

1 (57m 5s):
If you have a pay site, especially this is a great way to increase your quality traffic and get more joins with all sites, you can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell to your users. Pay sites can also sell, pay per view, where people have the option of paying by the scene for content that can’t get on the site. This is also another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee, sell them other products like toys and novelties market, your business, do things to improve your search engine results like SEO. There are some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our website list all of the benefits of your site in your marketing and how they affect the user.

1 (57m 54s):
And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firms such as, Oh, I don’t know, maybe adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time check services you pay for like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options. Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch. Plus got higher quality hosting in the process. Again, ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost-effectively along with this, make your profit and loss statement, show more profit.

1 (58m 37s):
That’s kind of a di guess, but increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does that, but make sure your P and L statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal expenses you’ve put in. This will cost you money when you sell it may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you. If you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement, remember every dollar in profit increases the value of your website as much as three or four times. This is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars, more on their sale just by adjusting the P and L statement to more accurately

3 (59m 22s):
Reflect actual business expenses, as opposed to a bunch of BS. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to adult industry writer, Ralph Greco,

0 (59m 37s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Lianne Young. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Harry Varwijk.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. Adult industry colleagues are rallying behind a GoFundMe campaign launched to assist Tim Lutz, the well-known community figure and co-founder of cyber socket with rising expenses. As he battles a recent diagnosis of brain cancer, the discovery and removal of a tumor in his brain has just become part of his journey.

1 (1m 18s):
And he refuses to succumb to fear notes. The intro from the GoFundMe campaign page for the past 30 years of his life, Tim has been consciously implementing a mindset to elevate his frequency and learn how to enjoy a better quality of life. He’s come to realize that when he exists in a pure state of love, he serves a purpose. His purpose to be love gives him the strong will to live a long, healthy and joyful life Tim’s plan is to not only survive, but to also thrive. Although Lutz has health insurance is out of pocket medical costs and other expenses are rapidly rising. It has always been easier for me to give and difficult for me to ask for help.

1 (2m 0s):
Thank you. In advanced all of my angels for your donations. He said, I am humbled and grateful for all of you and appreciate your consideration. Compassion, heartfelt kindness, and loving hearts, cyber socket, the pioneering LGBTQ publisher let’s co-founded with Morgan summer celebrates its 25th anniversary. Next January donate to his GoFundMe campaign by searching for Tim Lutz that’s L U T Z on fund me expert as award-winning performer, entrepreneur and pervert.com. Owner Lance Hart has launched his latest venture. Get me into porn.com with a stated aim to teach and train the next generation of performers.

1 (2m 46s):
How to navigate the wild wild world of adult. The new site utilizes the combined experience of performers, directors and producers. Candlebox Mickey Mohd, Todd Moore, Aiden, and heart among others member se this include video interviews and anonymous messaging system, online tutorials and mentorship by Regal and longstanding personalities in the adult industry said heart. I’m so excited to get this project launched and out into the world. He said during the pandemic, we’ve seen a huge influx of self-produced and amateur performers take up sex work to help make ends meet, and it found how extremely lucrative it can be.

1 (3m 29s):
Naturally many are ready to take the next step into professional productions, and we want to educate them on how to do it safely properly, and show them how to make their experience as positive as possible. He noted weekly updates are planned and affiliate program offers performers cam and clip sites, a $25 payout for referrals. Visit get me into porn.com and email Lance at perv out that’s P E R V O U t.com. For more details, the free speech coalition inspire program will host a webinar on tax preparation for adult industry workers tomorrow at 11:00 AM. Pacific time led by FSC industry relations advocate, Lotus lane with bookkeeper, Jesse Hornby tax preparer, Lauren foo Magali and adult industry laborers and artists association, founder, Mary Moody.

1 (4m 24s):
In addition to discussing and answering questions on tax filing issues, the group will speak to how performers can take advantage of forgivable loans from the PPP loan program. A rep explained and noted Fumagalli is a veteran performer and IRS enrolled agent. With 16 years of tax experience lane described the 2020 as a highly unusual financial year. For many performers, we’ve been getting so many questions online. We decided to put together an expert panel to discuss last minute filing issues for 2020, as well as PPP loans and strategies for reducing your tax burden in the year to come sex work is real work lane said, adult industry workers deserve the same resources and guidance as those who run mainstream businesses and the same support from the government.

1 (5m 14s):
This panel will help our workers understand how to access COVID support, better protect their businesses and legally reduce their tax burden. Visit free speech coalition.com for more detail, and to register. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker adult site broker is proud to offer for sale and adult pay site review platform. The site offers top discounts to the hottest networks and adult entertainment. In addition, they offer full length scenes to these sites. So surfers can sample the content. Also the scenes serve to keep the visitors engaged longer on the site. Then the traditional review site, they offer outstanding prices to adult networks on behalf of their visitors.

1 (5m 60s):
The surfers on the site will be hard pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time, Brazzers bang bros, and just about every other top adult network in site, they’ve been growing their email lists since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000 in the past six months, their unsubscribed rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well. This has boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding pay site review platform for only 956,000 us dollars.

1 (6m 47s):
Now time for this week’s interview,

2 (6m 50s):
My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Harry VAR. Weich Harry, thanks for being with us today and adult site broker talk,

3 (6m 58s):
Thank you for having me here. So mother

2 (7m 1s):
Now, now Harry’s been in the business since 2000 and in live cam, since their inception, Harry wears many hats. He’s alive cam webmaster for the night prowl studio network. He maintains websites for his company’s in-house models through an affiliate marketing program. He does live cam consultancy for cherry.tv. He performs content guarding of tube sites and doing DMC tasks. He’s part of the AWS summit team and he does media bias, Lincoln traffic traits, and I’m getting tired here and he maintained sponsor relationships of ADW media. So I guess I should ask you Harry, what you do in your free time

3 (7m 42s):
Playing games. That’s a way to unwind.

2 (7m 47s):
There you go. Okay. Now let’s start with one of your projects, cherry TV. Now this is one of the newer campsites out there. Why don’t you tell me more about this platform and how it’s different from some of its competitors?

3 (8m 2s):
Well, the platform itself is, is not debt different from competitors. So it is a freemium platform, which means that models have this other way of broadcasting instead of being on a premium website. The difference here, however, is that the management behind cherry TV is based, based and build up with marketing experts from industry mainstream and adults. They have a combined experience of more of more than 20 years, which is, which is pretty, pretty much needed to upset the Lifecare markets, because this is what charity view is going to do. They are going to upset the life care markets, meaning the bigger premium science house have always done.

3 (8m 52s):
They’re very good, but it is time it time for a little bit of change. And especially because the game-ification part of the web site adds a new layer to the whole webcam experience itself rewards the spenders and it rewards the models. The reward system is also different than other webcam science, meaning even if a model is online and she has contributed her time to the website, but she did not earn any revenue. She will still receive a reward. She will still be compensated for her time.

2 (9m 34s):
That’s fantastic from a model standpoint.

3 (9m 37s):
Absolutely. And I think a Bartel needs to focus on models and her needs and especially regarding payouts daily payouts is, is, is just one of the things which separates them from the big box campsites, right? One pressure on a button and, and, and 20 minutes later you have your money too. That’s great. Yes, it is. It is.

2 (10m 5s):
That brings, that brings daily payouts to a new level.

3 (10m 10s):
Yes. And I think it’s, it matches a little bit the situation off the mouth. I mean, sometimes they are four or five days of life and not making money and still waiting for the periodic payouts. Then why not hit the bail button on the moment you go on a holiday. So you have your cash always with you. Nice, nice.

2 (10m 34s):
Now it seems there’s a new campsite. Every time I turn around, what’s the state of the live cam market now.

3 (10m 43s):
Okay, well, we are still maturing. Meaning webcam sites are still trying to serve and the audience and the models at the same time. I mean, let’s say it like this. We, we have the goal to give pleasure on, on a cam site and measures is just a shortened of sensation. What we want to attribute is to have a happiness feeling. That’s a web web site has a relation with the webcam model that she feels secure. That is really important to have.

3 (11m 24s):
And I do agree with you every time you work, them sites come up, but they disappear also just as, just as fast people are overestimating the markets, definitely they think, wow, I put up a domain, I put up a script and boom, the money rolls in. This is just not how it works. You practice always. Absolutely.

2 (11m 48s):
Now do you think there’s still an opportunity for new people to come in and start a live cam site and make money?

3 (11m 56s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think this year, new, new webcam sites will come up too, that there are always people who she enough opportunity and there is always a rainbow with a pot of gold on yet, but you just have to go for it. The marketing responsibility, the energy that comes in to make a brand run online. It’s tremendous. I mean, I’m a little bit of webcams side needs to understand that in the first two years, they will hardly make any profit at all. All the money will go back into development, into maintenance staff people.

3 (12m 36s):
So I encourage people always to start new projects. But I do know that if I don’t see these qualifications in them, which good websites have that I will see them disappear at the end of the year, I got used to that. We have seen at least 15 people come and 15 people go in in the last five years alone.

2 (12m 59s):
Now starting a new webcam site, if you want to do it right, obviously it takes a ton of money. If you were starting in the business fresh today, where would you invest your money?

3 (13m 13s):
I would invest my money in making relations with cam models that already have a strong representation online. And I would probably try to invest money in having them on my portal to, to get some first attention. I would invest my money in their social media because they already have a tremendous amount of clients that have trust in them. And I will do my best to keep those models on my sites and, and try to have them generate traffic.

2 (13m 43s):
Now you do affiliate marketing for models. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. You were saying

3 (13m 51s):
No, no, no problem. I just wanted to say that. It sounds easier as that it really is. Of course.

2 (13m 57s):
Okay. Now will you cut out for a second? Sorry. You do affiliate marketing for models. How exactly does that work?

3 (14m 7s):
Okay, well, this is a really wide topic. I will give you a small example is a model

2 (14m 16s):
We got, we got time. Go for it. Okay.

3 (14m 18s):
If, if the model works individual from home, her first contact with the sponsor is cited as a model. Then when she goes into her member promo tools, you will also find options to hire her payouts by sending traffic directly to her room through, through, and the campaign link here is where it becomes interesting because many models missed the opportunity to sign up as an monster on the website. They are working as a model so they can actually add an extra layer of income, which is around 25, 30% to the general revenue damn making gift at clients.

3 (15m 5s):
As long as they become an affiliate, I can set up and own that site. They can make a promo call tool. They can have a chat widget with just Dem inside, put on their own websites under the affiliate code. So they build up an excellent defense, which 90% of the models are missing on this moment right now. So what I’m doing is I’m telling the models, Hey, look, here’s where your opportunities are. Here’s where you can sign up as a webmaster. Here is where you can download a WordPress application. And here is a module hosts with a $10 package a month to get you independent.

3 (15m 47s):
And then they actually try it out. And they find out that besides selling their own webcam that time they can also put for party product products on their own website and make income with other programs and shallowly. They are not only a webcam model, but they are also webmaster of their own sites. So it it’s, it’s just about adding opportunities to, to, to their account and taking profits from the fact that they already have spending clients. And if, if a model decides to be on a holiday for her clients can still go to her website, try some other products or spend time with another girl, but the model will still be rewarded for it.

3 (16m 35s):
So she can allow her men, her models, or their members to cheat with other models. And she gets an income from it. How, how widely is this done in the industry? Not very widely it’s here is where on the communities on the chem communities here is where it stagnates, meaning a contact between a model and a contact between the webmaster is being seen as a competitive fit. And I have no idea why, and I don’t know why they keep keeping this feeling up, but model that webmasters are taking that time, that we only want to work together with them.

3 (17m 16s):
So we can have some free sessions in their group, which is completely absurd when we are not into a context like this, we just want to put out traffic on a webcam model that knows how to generate it. So when I go into the cam community in the cam communities, and, and I’m actually speaking with a model that has, has done a lot of work, it has experienced, then I will propose an extra, additional income to her website. And we’ve her experience-based. She gets the point. She understands, Oh, I can also become a web master of my own product.

3 (18m 1s):
And it’s it’s, it has to do with the experience and how people she webmasters and his industry, and 80 to 90% sees us as competition. And they make comments like, okay, you sent us traffic, but you take a part of our income. Why you do that? And then we have to tell them, yeah, but this is what the site emphasizes. While you work on that, they have their own traffic. Where do you think your traffic comes from? It comes from the webmasters. Okay. I agree. Some campsites have their own in-house marketing department for all in-house traffic, so they don’t have to pay webmasters for it. But a majority of the traffic still comes from the affiliates.

2 (18m 44s):
That’s awesome. That’s something I had never heard before. Now. Now content piracy is a big issue today. How much of your time is spent on that area of your business? And how’s it going

3 (18m 59s):
Way too much? The DCMA tasks are taking way too much time, especially because we have to communicate with a market that hides behind a wall, a lot of Russian communication, which goes into nothing. I can say that 60% of the videos are being removed successfully within four weeks. And I think at least 40 options. And I’m pretty sharp on this number around 40% ignores my request and they will play it out as, as, as long as they can.

3 (19m 40s):
Of course, I have to go to channels like Google and hosting, and I have to come up with documentation stamps and all that stuff. It takes way too much time. And it’s a nice, not sure position for this too. I mean, but sometimes these services are hand in hand with the scamming webmasters, meaning they steal on the other sides and they go into a forum and offer that removal. Sure. There’s still another personality. So you are dealing with the fee and you are dealing with the person who’s who, who claims to clean up the mess, defeat me. And in the meantime, you’re all talking to one in the same person.

3 (20m 21s):
So it’s a, it’s, it’s a, it’s a portion of a work that I rather not have comes with. A lot of stress comes with emotions. I could go without it to be almost. Yeah.

2 (20m 34s):
Yeah. That’s gotta be really frustrating. Especially if it’s one in the same person.

3 (20m 40s):
Yes, yes, absolutely. The research that goes into it and the energy and efforts that you have to do, they are not, and they don’t give you a shit affectional feeling at all.

2 (20m 51s):
When freemium websites popped up, how much panic did you feel considering the sites you owned were

3 (20m 59s):
Premium? I can tell you honestly, when the first premium side popped up, I was just being happy with, with my lifetime revenue spenders on the premium science on the moment I saw chatter beds coming up, my world literally turned upside down. I, I had problems accepting them, meaning it took me at least one and a half till two years before I decided to really examine the science and to check the affiliate program. But in the beginning I was not happy with it. I knew that it will crash a few of my lifetime, spend this into nothing, which obviously it did.

3 (21m 44s):
And I was forced to go along with it, but it took me almost two years mentally before I started to accept that this is how it was, was not a nice feeling. Now, when I look back, I’m pretty extreme, happy that freemium has come up. It’s it’s it has given results and situations, which I didn’t foresee that would happen. And I’m really happy. It did.

2 (22m 15s):
It’s obviously a tried and true format.

3 (22m 19s):
Absolutely. Yes. Every portal has his own group of models. You have freemium models and you have premium models. Freemium models are mostly younger, have more creativity, exploit the industry more in their own benefits and premium is really one-on-one. So it’s pretty exclusive. It’s like a girlfriend experience. You can not put more creativity in there. It’s like a talk with a shrink. Now

2 (22m 51s):
They’re both freemium and premium cam sites, which ones are doing better.

3 (22m 57s):
You mean which one is in my eyes? The best freemium website?

2 (23m 1s):
No, between just the model of freemium and the model of premium, which ones do you think are doing better? And why is that? And of course you can tell me who you think the best star of, of each, each model.

3 (23m 18s):
Well, let’s, let’s stay on this example of charter badge because that science has earned their position in the market. Even if it brought me some competitive thinking in the beginning, I think they have improved the situation for models. I am not comparing chanter bank with anything else. So D they are on top for me, for the freemiums and the other sites. I really give much attention for wow. Our top priority. Why? Because since 2008, they, they have intensified a diminishment towards models and, and webmasters by having forums online for just us, by communicating with us a lot, asking feedback, coming with customized promo tools, coming with upgrades, I would say life just meaning chapter Bay are the two top sites and it’s regarding freemium and premium.

3 (24m 22s):
That will be that, that will be not much of a change in, in this year.

2 (24m 28s):
Well, what do you think? Which, which of the two models do you think is better though?

3 (24m 33s):
And, and on, on what kind of a model, what kind of performer you are? I, I would say free freemium is a good start for people who are new in this industry. So they can develop an identity. They, if they, they can find a role in which they, they, they prefer best on a line. And I, I, I, I do think that people going to premium do best when they have experienced from the freemium. This is regarding communication, how to talk to a client, how, how to connect with him on an emotional level, how to entice them to provoke and to flirt.

3 (25m 16s):
This is, this is something that is on premium, more on the focus and on freemium. It is more a group show. It’s it’s it’s you, you, you chip in together with, with other guys to keep the show going and to keep her having this loss in, in, in her private areas. It’s, it’s, it’s a different kind of sensation premium service I’ve seen in service are, are, are trying to chase premium is exclusive. One-on-one, it’s, it’s more personal than, than freemium. So it’s these two differences also splits up the models.

3 (25m 59s):
You have models who are open to, to be exclusive with, with, with one person to open themselves up and to be entertaining and, and, and enticing on freemium. There is not much of the intelligence needed to, to keep this person in the room. It’s if one leaves your chat room, two, others will come in. So it’s it’s about what, what does Sherver is, is, is trying to search for exclusivity or just a quick Wang. And this is where freemium and premium are different from each other. It’s the exclusive freedom.

2 (26m 39s):
If you were starting a cam site today, which one would you pick and why?

3 (26m 46s):
Yeah. Which business model I would pick, I would pick the freemium because I will reach a wide audience regarding performance and service. And I will definitely stay away from premium because it’s, it’s expensive to two brands. It comes with a different business model. I would be more shaved to go for a Freeman side. Yeah. Sorry. I want to say, especially because the big premium players already taken that place, they already won the trust of a large group of spenders.

3 (27m 31s):
And they will keep that trust for, for years to come. So to come up with a premium side right away, and to declare war and competition, that’s not going to help. I will definitely go for the freedom to start off with.

2 (27m 44s):
Now, when you found out that models had no idea that most traffic comes from webmasters, how did you feel? And what did you do about it?

3 (27m 55s):
To be honest in the beginning, it was a little bit frustrated because as a webmaster, you search continuously for acknowledgement of your position here in the market, and you just want to be seen, or you just want to be a part of success. So when a life has made client, Hey, we are so big EDI. We, we webmasters of five, just me and the, we want to take some credit for, for, for that too. Right. We want to say, Hey, it was all in a joint joint efforts to make it big. Now you need to repeat the question. Can the girls, I was a little bit distressed by your question.

2 (28m 41s):
Okay. So when you, okay, will you, when you found out models had no idea that most traffic came from webmasters, how did you feel? And then what did you do about it?

3 (28m 53s):
Yeah. Okay. So the part, what do we do about it? We are still trying to install a short of an idea of what a landmark.

2 (29m 4s):
Okay. Like, so, so when you talked earlier about going on the boards and things like that,

3 (29m 10s):
You speak to individual person, they all have their opinions and they all think different about it. What I do know this, I can community foremost, together, they can share experiences. They can share problems, they have or solutions, but to communicate between demand and supply. And that is not being a stable established on communities. It is however, a great place for a woman to talk with another woman and, and share some experiences on that they have on different websites. There is no such thing as them trying to market themselves more and, and communicating towards webmaster seems that there is still an invisible wall between two people.

4 (29m 58s):
Do you react to charge backs and drops in sales that are on

3 (30m 2s):
Unexpected? Well, Louisa, I can be very honest. A chargeback feels like somebody is kicking me so hard in the balls and crying for the day. Stucco or chargeback is, is a personal thing. It’s you start to doubt your models, the quality you start to think. Did I do something wrong in the click flow on my sites? Did I gave him the feeling he had to spend? Was he manipulated a chargeback, comes with a tremendous amount of emotions during the years. Of course it becomes part of the game, but it still feels incredibly professional.

3 (30m 46s):
And yes, I understand stair damage fraud online. And mostly when I requested sites to investigate the charge back into give me an exact reason, I will be happy when it says one of those stolen cards, then I’m like, okay, cool. That’s that’s nice. The guy got this money back. The bank did the responsible thing. This is how the industry should work. I, if it, if, if it comes like, yeah, he was manipulated by a model, he was cheated. I feel personally bad because I did brought him to do website. I did told him he would have a great time with this model and still it didn’t work, worked out.

3 (31m 28s):
So it charged back comes, comes in with incredibly messy emotions. And it takes a few days before those emotions are dying off. And I’m back to my old shelf. Again, my biggest charge back was $19,000. And my small charge back was around $7. But the warm of $19,000 happened seven years ago, woke up on a Sunday morning and I was $90,000 in the red. That was an incredibly hard thing. It took me around a half a year to get that account back to zero. Yeah.

4 (32m 6s):
Yeah. I can only imagine. How about other drops in sales? How do you respond to those? Well,

3 (32m 14s):
When you read statistics and when,

4 (32m 18s):
When you read numbers,

3 (32m 20s):
You start to understand where it comes from, where is it going wrong? What part of the website is, is, is, is doing bad check and faces to, to other solutions, but to find out where the drop comes from, that is already the biggest reward, fixing it. That is something that it’s not a problem. It will take some time, but to know where it comes from, we just statistics in such a way that you know, where it is leaking, that you know, where things are down. That means that you have a good oversight. And that is a party, the biggest desk here, reading the numbers and try to convert them to text and try to find out where it comes from.

3 (33m 5s):
Find a problem you can fix it. Sure.

2 (33m 9s):
That goes with anything, by the way, getting back to chargebacks in the, in the chargeback industry, when someone charges back for something that they actually consumed, they use the term friendly fraud. I what’s, what’s friendly. What’s friendly about that.

3 (33m 29s):
There is nothing friendly about that through failure, totally agreeing with you. As soon as the word chargeback comes up, all the words associated to it are mostly negative, unless it was a stolen card and the guy got his money returns. Then we get the responsible thing as, as, as, as an industry. But for the rest, there is nothing friendly about the chargeback. Nothing

2 (33m 53s):
Indeed. Now, can you explain the term? And it’s used a lot girlfriend experience, it’s a little bit different on cams than it does out here in Thailand and R and R people kind of chasing the dragon with love online.

3 (34m 10s):
Yes. So we have this girlfriend experience. It’s a white concept. I mean, it can go into every direction. I will see a girl and think, Hey, she looks like my first girlfriends. You go into the room and you have a nice conversation and, and you’ll get these emotions back. And when you start liking a person, just because she talks nicely or she, or how, the way she thinks that’s already a connection. If I am with a like-minded model communicating, she doesn’t have to go naked for me to still have that experience that I’m happy. And of course, between pleasure and happiness, there is a big thing.

3 (34m 54s):
Now, a girlfriend experience is, is category on their happiness pleasure to go away after five, 10 minutes, happiness, happiness, emotion, just girlfriend experience with a model. Then I definitely want to talk a little bit more refer, and this might be two, three times a week, and maybe I develop an emotion. And I think, you know what? I don’t feel bad spending $200 a month on an exclusive experience begins with the same $200 on, on dinners. We, with an offline girl, the girlfriend experiences is, is it a term I use for chats that are longer than 40 minutes and where a client is at at least two or three times a week checks in we the model, just to say a friendly word or, or, or have a little talk and doing a member session, maybe in the weekends or on the Sunday evening, but longer.

3 (35m 52s):
And with more quality, so more texts, more and more exchange of emotions. They’re actually interested in each other. They’re asking for family, Hey, how’s your family doing? What are you doing for work? It all creates these little lines that she’s throwing to him, which she can use the next time again, to continue that bill from experience. When he comes in next week, she was, how was the meeting? Did your boss gave you the compliment that you were shooting for? Did you finish the project? As soon as this member has the idea, Hey, she’s actually thinking about me. That is already a girlfriend experience by being taken serious.

3 (36m 36s):
You don’t have to be in one room with dispersion to still have this emotion. That’s why I used that girlfriend experience term a lot. I like it. It’s it’s it sounds friendlier. And it’s it’s it has a social. Yeah. You will hear me use that word until the end of time. Because in the end, we shell a little bit of proportionality the shell time and all we are not at the red light district in Amsterdam. I mean, Dara is very, now you stand in front of a window, you go in, you negotiate 10 minutes later, you are out. That is, that is exactly what, what we don’t want to have online.

3 (37m 17s):
So yes, of course we have to tell to a model that every client is a human being and should be considered as well and taken serious,

1 (37m 27s):
Certainly the best way for people to conduct themselves in any space. And Cam’s included. Well, Harry, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your website design. Up-to-date do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success.

1 (38m 10s):
If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’ll end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes.

1 (38m 51s):
People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor. You have to competitors clearly doing everything better. Again, emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’ll lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They’ll click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for. If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Leanne young

0 (39m 38s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Harry Varwijk. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

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