Adult Site Broker Talk

At Adult Site Broker we broker websites and companies for the adult space. In this podcast we speak to the movers and shakers of the adult industry, in all aspects of the business. And we tell you how to buy or sell a website or company for maximum profit and with a minimum of trouble.

  Upcoming Guests

6/29 Stephanie & Fox – Evolve Your Intamacy
7/6 – Ivan – AltErotic
7/13 – Dr. Monique – Therapist for Pineapple Support
7/20 – Seka Black – Adult performer




Listen to Adult Site Broker Talk

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Megan Hussey the Feminist Sexpert.

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Megan, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 20s): Oh, thank you, Bruce. I’m very happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (2m 24s): It’s a pleasure. Now, Megan, as I said, is the feminist sexBird@sexpert.com. She’s a USA today, bestselling erotic author and feminist activist who has written for publications that include Playgirl good vibrations and scandalous women and sites that include shush.com and blush erotica. She’s a winner of six romance industry awards and a fem porn influencer who reviews and recommends good porn and erotica for women. She lives in Florida.

So, and one thing I didn’t add there, which you’ve kind of added recently, you’re a, you’re riding some movie scenes, I guess, huh?

Speaker 2 (3m 4s): Yes, yes. Actually just they viewed on a blush. Erotica is my good friend Lily Craven, and the scene is called mommy’s favorite. Son-in-law with a beautiful young man, a newcomer named Milan. And like I was telling you earlier, probably with Lillian Milan almost on screen, I’m not sure if anybody would actually be listening to the dialogue, but

Speaker 1 (3m 30s): Yeah, we were just, we were just be asking before that. So, so tell us more about your work as the feminist sexpert for sexpert.com and a correspondent for scandalous woman.

Speaker 2 (3m 47s): Yes. Yes. Well basically, you know, as an adult journalist, I always wanted to present the women’s point of view and the feminist point of view. I feel that it’s still underrepresented. And so, oh, well in both cases with, through my interviews, I have an interview series at each site and then I also have some opinions and commentaries it’s expert and also even like reviews and historical pieces.

And really my aim is to educate women, you know, about what’s available to them in terms of erotic entertainment, movies that are good for them, you know, stars that they should watch out for, and maybe even some things to avoid, you know? And so that’s really the aim, you know, of each of each column.

Speaker 1 (4m 48s): Yeah. You know, I mean really before sites like, like Andrew Roundtree did with the shish.com, there really wasn’t a lot of porn for women was there.

Speaker 2 (4m 59s): No, no. And I am so thrilled to work with Angie. I write erotica stories for her site and also I’ve done some audio scripts and she is a revolutionary, it’s an honor to work with her and the yes. You know, I mean there was her and candied her way out and, you know, just a handful of other directors that really got the ball rolling. And there are other creators out there today, you know, that I’m thrilled to see more of it probably.

Speaker 1 (5m 31s): Absolutely. Do you, do you see more of this happening as there are more women, women in porn?

Speaker 2 (5m 41s): Yes, definitely. You know, I think that the more women, what we have in terms of directing and writing, I know that with the feminist sex sexpert, I’ve interviewed Angie, you know, I’ve interviewed Jennifer Lyon, bell, Ms. Naughty, Erica lust. And I’m about to write interview incl ventures and also Stacy Lyle, who was an executive flush.

And yes, there are more women on the creative side, both women who got in directly as directors and writers, but then we also see a lot of stars, you know, who are really coming forward and saying, I’m going to make my own content. You know, I want to write something direct, something that I want to see. So I love that too.

Speaker 1 (6m 34s): Absolutely. Yeah. I forgot to mention Erica. She’s, she’s been another what I would call revolutionary. So, so you’re both an erotic novelist and an erotic writer for dot com. How did you become an erotic writer?

Speaker 2 (6m 52s): Well, you know, RUSA, it was funny because I never thought that anyone would ever read my erotic stories and I would not allow because basically I grew up in Muncie, Indiana. I was a farmer’s daughter and, you know, very conservative, politically conservative, but morally conservative to the extreme and the, you know, so we never talked about sex really.

And, but I just was just always a very romantic person, you know, and starting my teens, very, you know, just central curious about things. And so I basically started writing erotica just as a way to deal with my feelings, you know, and it’s a good thing too, because I’m notorious for having very poor penmanship. So luckily the times that people didn’t come upon my writing, they couldn’t read it, but I just started the, I just started writing erotica, you know, just to deal with my own feelings.

But then when I started reading it to friends of mine, they were just like, oh, wow. You know, like, especially back in college was when I really started sharing that. And I get these phone calls. Have you written any more than that story, that story. And I’m like, well, is it an emergency or So I agreed a little bit to the story and, you know, then I actually started printing up some stories that I did and selling them to girls, I canvas, you know, because they became that popular.

And so then I just went on, I had my first publication in the mid two thousands and I started, I am now currently primarily with satin, which is a division of Milan and yeah, so I just kind of laid the groundwork. And again, you know, I wanted to present a more feminist viewpoint. I wanted to show that you could have like a consensual relationship, you know, and very respectful really could still be hot, you know?

And I wanted to show women and more positions of power, you know? And so it’s an actual, and actually my novel leading lady should be coming out in a few months. So

Speaker 1 (9m 35s): That’s great. So now, how did you first get into the adult industry through your work with Playgirl?

Speaker 2 (9m 43s): Yes. Well, I tell you, it’s interesting because I was a Playgirl reader since college and that’s all I was, was a fan, you know, I have no, you know, I had no connections in the adult industry at all, but I haven’t been on a message board and somebody said something about Playgirl TV, you know, and this was back in the mid, mid two thousands. And I’m like, finally, it’s about time long ago, boy PV, you know?

And so then I Googled Playgirl TV and I saw that it was going to be like a cable channel viewer, you know, view on demand. And so I wrote in all I wanted to do, I thought I’d never hear back. You know, I thought they’re probably getting so many notes. I probably won’t even register, but, you know, I sent her an email and I said, I just want to say I support this a hundred percent. I’d like more information on the possible. And so there’s a wonderful lady named Ted Eisenberg who was with Playgirl marketing.

And she said, you know, this website is really only for marketing people. And my first thought was, oh, but then she said, it’s amazing. You’re really interested in this. Aren’t you? And so we started talking and almost every day we were talking back and forth. She was asking me for ideas. And pretty soon, Bruce, I went from being a Playgirl reader to being the national leader of the Playgirl fan club with the Playgirl posse.

I had a column in Playgirl magazine. I was writing back cover copy for Playgirl DVDs. And it just totally, I mean, it was amazing to me that I would be given such a national platform, you know, and I am thrilled that I met so many other interesting women, you know, and I really began to meet other women that were like me and I was also able to represent the female point of view, you know, like when there were people who would just insist that women didn’t read Playgirl, you know, that and I’d be like, Hm, last time I checked, I am a native woman.

So there you go.

Speaker 1 (12m 17s): Sure, sure. And that’s, that’s originally what play girl was for was, you know, obviously for women, what are some of the challenges, you know, w what are some of the challenges of being a sex positive feminist?

Speaker 2 (12m 34s): I think that probably the number one challenge is what took me out of the business for several years is that there was a time after Playgirl pretty much shut down. You know, I, I did do some writing with good vibrations, which is another wonderful company and started writing for scandals, you know, was fantastic, you know, but other than that, you know, I just didn’t see a lot, you know, that was remaining for women.

And honestly, what I was seeing started to disturb me, I started to see a lot more roughness, even in mainstream, you know, titles and just more roughness violence objectification. And, you know, I just really, I think I got to a point I never, for one second wasn’t anti-porn feminist, because I believe so strongly in freedom of speech, you know, but I also got to the point where I was like, I, you know, I can’t do this anymore.

I can’t watch this. I can’t represent it. I just, I can’t. And so that really took me out of it. And I tried to concentrate more on just my writing. I got into a kind of like audio erotica, like ASM Mar and things like that, you know, but then when I started to watch more of Andrew’s work it, you know, and also, you know, Ms. Naughty was still going strong, Jennifer Lyon, bell.

And I also began to see new and emerging names, you know, coming in and taking over. And I started to see more of what I liked again, and also what occurred to me. I thought, you know, you can’t change and an industry by leaving it. You know, I wanted to be there to be a voice for women. I wanted to make a difference and I wanted to be there, of course, in case any woman needed help, I believe very much and performer advocacy and total consent in all situations.

And so that’s why I came back, you know,

Speaker 1 (14m 58s): That’s awesome. And the whole idea of the, the roughness and the rough sex and in porn, that’s obviously, there’s a lot of controversy around that right now. What’s your, what’s your feeling about that?

Speaker 2 (15m 15s): Well, I think that, first of all, personally, I don’t like it. I’m not into it. I am not at all now. You know, I do believe that there are certain people of both genders who have of course certain fetishes and fantasies. And if the content I know another great site out there is after glow.

And I know that Lily sparks a fantastic head of after glow. She reminds me don’t yuck somebody else’s yum. You know? And, And so, you know, I realized that’s another part of being a feminist is giving women agency, if they do choose to act out these fantasies in a safe consensual forum. You know, for me, it’s always safety first consent first, you know, but to me, I would also like to play a hand and having content that is totally non-violent, you know, it doesn’t have to be a Harlequin romance every time.

You know, I’m not saying that, I’m just saying, I’d like to see more respect. I’d like to see more empowered women. And, you know, when you think about what in theater Royale, you know, was producing, you know, the four she’s no longer with us, but, you know, they’re just more like that, more of an option, because I honestly know of women who will just not watch porn because of that perception that they’re going to see something just awful, you know?

And I want to provide more options. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (17m 3s): Who are some of the interesting people you’ve interviewed?

Speaker 2 (17m 7s): Yeah. It’s interesting people that I’ve interviewed. Well also like for sexpert. Well, let’s see, I’ll start with scandal as women, because I was there first, as I said everywhere.

Speaker 1 (17m 23s): Why don’t I ask the question? Why don’t I ask the question again? Meghan? Why don’t I ask the question again and we’ll flow a little better. Okay. Okay. So who are some of the interesting people? You okay. Let’s try this again. Who are some of the interesting people you’ve interviewed?

Speaker 2 (17m 38s): Oh, okay. Yeah. Well now for my feminist sexpert interview series, I have two categories. Basically. I interview women who are content creators. Now these could either be directors like I’ve interviewed Andrew Roundtree, Willie Sparks and income winters, Jennifer Lyon, bell, you know, just Ms.

Naughty, just really fantastic directors. And then I have also interviewed actresses who are, who create their own content, very empowered. We want to talk about empowered. I’ve interviewed goddess. Lilla talk about very powerful woman and penny barber, you know, and you know, and Avery Jane and Rebecca Vanguard, and these are women of all different ages and backgrounds, but the common denominator is that they take a great deal of pride in what they do.

They’re very proud feminist. And, you know, they really take a proactive, you know, very view and very responsible view of what they do. And then as far as the men that I interview, I also, now I do take my interviews with the male talent seriously and respectfully, because I feel that they usually don’t get a lot of a platform. You know, they usually don’t a lot of people don’t recognize their names beyond the manual Ferrera, or, you know, it’s like, they’re just a couple that everybody recognizes.

And then the other guys are just, you know, you don’t hear a lot about them. And so I’ve gone out of my way to really spotlight male talent and the two requirements, generally, first of all, they have to be respectful of women, you know, in their really work for and their performances. And second of all, well, it kind of helps if they’re hot.

The reason mean isn’t my readers are women and they’re looking for, you know, who do you know, who, whose name do I look for when I’m buying a video? You know, what do I, I look for that download what guy do I want to see? And, you know, so yes, you know, it’s like, I’ve interviewed Joshua Lewis as well. The younger performers I’ve interviewed Dante Cole. It was just skyrocketing with his career.

I’ve interviewed Nathan Bronson, you know, I’ve interviewed brick Cummings who is an up and coming African-American gentleman. And my

Speaker 1 (20m 48s): Next one is

Speaker 2 (20m 48s): Very interesting. Yes, yes. And my next one is Darryl Jones who was actually very interesting. He’s an Instagram model and a fitness star who has just started and only fans. And he’s also going into hardcore, you know, with his movies. And so, yeah, as far it’s a little different with the men because I like to provide the ladies willful little fantasy, you know, I like to, you know, I always liked run very, a lot, you know, maybe more pictures of the men and maybe a little bit more tastefully revealing, you know, and because there’s just, I know DAMA hooped with the sexpert, a fantastic lady and doctor Dr.

Ava, Cadell’s ahead. And I just interviewed her today. She’s fantastic. You know, domino, she was telling me, she said, you know, I don’t think anybody else’s doing what you do, you know? And I got to thinking, you know, maybe she’s right, because there are very few women who go out of their way to interview the male talent from a woman’s perspective. You know, they might interview the male talent there, but it’s usually a lot of guys saying, so dude, what’s it like to, you know, work with so-and-so or it wasn’t get to get to them, all these beautiful ladies, male, high fives.

Speaker 1 (22m 22s): I know

Speaker 2 (22m 23s): With me, what I want to know is yeah. Yeah. And with me, what I want to know is, you know, how do you treat women on set? Do you like, you know, how do you please your female talent, you know, what female directors do you like to work with? And, you know, what would you like to say to your audience? You know, how, how do you want the word, the ladies in, you know? And so, yeah, I think, you know, that was something very different and, and little scandal, us women.

Yes. I’ve interviewed everybody from orotic authors, like Laurell K Hamilton, you know, to film directors like Erica lust. I recently interviewed the legendary high of patiently. Who’s a good friend of mine. And a lot of people wondering what happened to her and she’s actually a very, she’s no longer in the adult, but she has a native string kind of like a self motivation program. And, you know, she is really into wellness and healing and she looks exactly like she did when she makes movies, when she made her movies not changed a bit.

And, and I’m going to be Dr. Amy codel and yes,

Speaker 1 (23m 38s): That’s awesome. Did you ever, you were speaking of male talent. Did you enter ever interview porno Dan?

Speaker 2 (23m 45s): No, I haven’t.

Speaker 1 (23m 47s): Oh, he’s awesome. He’s been on, he’s been on my podcast and he’s fantastic and I believe very respectful to women. So yes, yes. That’s my, my perception, not that I watched much of his content, but knowing the guy. Yeah. I know he’s a, and he’s a wonderful person. So how do you hope to bridge the gap between porn and erotica?

Speaker 2 (24m 14s): Well, you know, I would like to see more filmed adaptions of erotic stories and novels. And I have seen a little bit of that in the work of like for Adam and Eve, you know, like with the K brand, you know, and Selena KIPP, interestingly enough, Selena kit was a Playgirl posse girl. She was the Playgirl fan back on the day, you know?

Yes, yes. And I know that at sure. You know, we have some wonderful Radek authors and yeah. So what I would like, I would like to see more filmed adaptions, our Veronica, and, you know, also I would just like to see, you know, more of like a literary bench and some of the films, you know, more of a story and more unique and diverse and woman friendly stories.

Like, you know, I would love to see, I mean, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that there was this production by vivid, like yeah. Way back in the nineties called immortal desire. I believe it was Phillip Christian. It was starting Jerry pike and Sarah Jane Hamilton. And it was like, it was a time travel, historical romance. It was beautiful. It’s one of the most beautiful love stories I’ve ever seen on film. And it was a vivid production, you know, it was a vivid visuals production.

And so I’m thinking, you know, why don’t we see more of that today? You know, it’s like, I would love to go down.

Speaker 1 (25m 56s): I know I th I think there’s a few, there’s a few independent producers who do that type of thing. Junk productions is one. And I think that you’re starting to see more of it. So

Speaker 2 (26m 12s): Yes, yes, yes. Another thing I would like to see is a, in terms of, you know, some of the mail, I like going back to that, the male talent to be more showcased for the female view, you know, because I know that we did that with Playgirl where they would have the men’s names first and that they would have the, the focus on the men and there, and also with the impulse, which a Lily had afterglow was actually back some of the impulse titles I’m very excited about, but yeah, I mean that, that’s something we really need more of, I believe.

And so I can watch it, but

Speaker 1 (26m 57s): For

Speaker 2 (26m 57s): The ladies out there just more showcased titles with the women, more focused on the men.

Speaker 1 (27m 4s): Absolutely. So now you said you’re particularly interested in giving women more of a voice in the industry. In what way is that?

Speaker 2 (27m 14s): Yes. Well, I really want to hear more of what women want. I want to hear more from female audience members as to what they like in particular, I would love to see more writers and critics, and of course, more directors and producers. And I also would like to hear more of a voice in terms of obviously safety and consent onset, you know, because when we consider the fact that, you know, it seems like there are certain people that are discussed that will say, well, you know, he doesn’t treat the women well, or he did the boom.

The guy just keeps working on the industry year after year after year. And, you know, it seems like with the me too movement, it has infiltrated the industry a little bit, but not that much. It seems like, you know, no, absolutely you’re right. You’re right. Because, you know, we’ll hear accusations, we’ll hear detailed stories, similar stories from a lot of women that if it was any other industry, he’d be turned out on his ear, you know, by now, you know, but it seems like an adult.

Yes, that’s right. That’s right. And you know, it just, it’s just barely grazing the surface. And I just want to get to a point where every woman can feel comfortable and safe onset and that there’s more advocacy. And then if something goes wrong, but they have somebody to turn to and that they feel like they have agency. They don’t just feel like, well, gosh, I’m not going to get my rent paid if I don’t go along with this.

So I’ll just say I had a good experience. That’s got gotta stop. You know, ultimately the most important voice to me is to ensure safety and consent.

Speaker 1 (29m 16s): So Megan, what’s your idea of the perfect women’s porn.

Speaker 2 (29m 22s): I believe that it is a production in which the woman’s pleasure and comfort are emphasized. I believe that it is something and which of the attractiveness of the male stars is emphasized and let you actually see them. I know that coral and Juul, you know, she had a brilliant quote. She was like, well, sometimes we’re up there. You can’t tell what we’re F you know, we don’t know what word, you know, you can’t even see the men or, you know, and so to me, it would be something that has a good story of that has some romance and powered woman, beautiful man, and something that a woman, you know, will want to return just like she might pick up her favorite romance novel again.

And again, this is a movie that she will want to watch again and again, and that she can think about and, and smile, you know, after she’s seen it

Speaker 1 (30m 28s): Makes sense. So what concerns do you have about modern porn?

Speaker 2 (30m 35s): Again, I’m concerned about the extreme roughness. I’m concerned about the prevalence of roughness, even in mainstream titles, sometimes with no warning of the content, you know, I’m concerned about onset conditions and you know, that definitely I do have a lot of concerns. And other than that also, you know, I would love to, it seemed like we had almost like a Renaissance when I think about the work of everyone from, you know, candida Royale, you know, to even some of the male directors like Michael Nan, you know, I mean, it seemed like for a while, they were really producing these just almost like masterpieces of adult, you know, am I know that that is for journey.

You know, I know that you do see some very, like with the protections of Angie, Roundtree, and Shaw and all the people that we’ve mentioned. And of course, with the Cayden cross, you know, with the deeper, you know, and Vixen, you know, I realized that that is returning, you know, but because to me, that’s, what’s sexy, you know, to me, it’s not just about seeing a bunch of bodies, you know, kind of going at each other. To me, it’s more like the style and with glamour Lily, I really like,

Speaker 1 (32m 8s): I agree. It would be nice to see. It would definitely be nice to see how do you hope to build more of a network among women and porn?

Speaker 2 (32m 18s): Well, you know, to me, it’s something that I’m very excited about and it’s just like I was discussing on the phone with Angie Roundtree the other day. It’s almost like we’re building a fortress, you know, in terms of when I see more and more women that are getting active. And when from a personal standpoint, when I’m able to, when I see collaborations have been formed and when I can say, okay, you know, I have a friend who is really interested in writing, she should get hooked up with this director.

Or I have a friend who, you know, has a concern. I should get her hooked up with someone who will listen, you know, to that concern. And, you know, I can tell that with the directors that I’ve talked to with the actresses and the writers and the content creators, we are just film, we’re forming more of a network and I can just see our strength rising in numbers. And for me, I would love to see, I mean, I know that Angie has ethical porn, you know, I definitely want to do more work in that area.

Also, I would love to bring back feminist for free expression, the pink ladies. I know that the higher patient, she sent me an honorary pink ladies button online and, you know, just more advocacy and just more of a network. I mean, I love it when, like my friend Holly, you know, who does the parties by Bella’s, you know, she was looking for some models to do, you know, documentaries about.

And so I got her on an email chain, you know, with Lily and porcelain, and I’m like, Hey, sister, friends, come here circle, you know, like Holly needs, Holly need some talent, you know, to showcase and her new documentary series. And so immediately willing for we’re like, yes, we’d love to participate. You know? And so

Speaker 1 (34m 36s): It’s

Speaker 2 (34m 36s): About partnerships.

Speaker 1 (34m 37s): Those two are those two, definitely those two, sorry, those two, we seem to have a delay. Those two, those two, definitely our, our doers big time coral and, and Lilly.

Speaker 2 (34m 51s): Yes, yes, absolutely. And delightful and yeah. You know, and we’re referring, like, if I am talking to like, you know, Rebecca Vanguard or Avery Jane, you know, just about making it a little, you know, like just about making connections, making things happen. Oh, I know this lady is doing this. And I was that, you know, to me, it’s a network. And also when I posted on my phone, the sexpert Twitter, you know, about during award season with Angie got a big expos nomination and Balisa house, of course, fantastic.

Jackie St. James, they were getting all these nominations and after Glenn, you know, was getting nominations for, and also foreplay and go winters, you know, all of these women, you know, scoring big nominations, you know, for the sites. And I just printed and flush erotica, you know, Stacey while. And so I just did a list of that in one tweet. And I said, the sisterhood is strong and that’s what it’s all about.

Speaker 1 (35m 60s): You sound like, you sound like the, you definitely sound like the ringleader there.

Speaker 2 (36m 5s): Oh, thank you. I will be honored, honored to think. So I tell you, and that’s why I’m here. And yeah, that’s what I try, you know, just to bring everybody together, you know, and there’s always strength in numbers. And so yes, I always say to the revolution is live.

Speaker 1 (36m 29s): Indeed, indeed. So, so tell us about some of your other non adult projects.

Speaker 2 (36m 36s): Yes. Well, you know, I do quite a bit of journalism, you know, I do quite a bit of journalistic writing. I do a lot of feminist advocacy. I’ve also been a column host for legendary women magazine. And I’m the co-host of the lavender ladies podcast with my friend Margaret Bates. And so yes, I do a lot of feminist advocates of advocacy, especially on behalf of, you know, rape and domestic violence survivors.

And the email I write about issues, you know, I have some political causes and I actually got a certificate of appreciation from a statewide domestic violence awareness board and it’s sexual assault for it, for some of my coverage. And so, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m very active in journalism advocacy, also marketing writing, you know, I do quite a bit of like in terms of product descriptions, press releases, you know, things like that.

And I also, I write some sweet romance to, you know, because I always wanted to write something that my family could read when my parents were still alive, that they could read, you know, with my nephews and nieces, my, you know, that I just really felt like, you know, I wanted them to be able to enjoy some of my work, you know, and they would put it on their brief, you know, put it on their bookcase, you know?


Speaker 1 (38m 22s): Yeah. So you’re, yeah. You don’t want your family in Indiana reading too much of the hot sticky stuff, I guess. Huh?

Speaker 2 (38m 30s): No, I tell you, it was funny for Christmas for one year. I actually gave my mom a copy of a sweet romance book of what I had written and thank God I actually looked at it on Christmas Eve before I wrapped it, because there was a title page, you know, they’ll have the title of the book and limits and to read the other titles by Megan Hussey. And then it had all these body books that I had written.

I saw that. And I swear, I just ripped out with title.

Speaker 1 (39m 12s): Yeah. We don’t win a one to, we don’t want mom from Indiana having a heart attack.

Speaker 2 (39m 17s): No, no, I didn’t want to be responsible.

Speaker 1 (39m 22s): Exactly. So what are your future plans for a sexpert.com?

Speaker 2 (39m 29s): Well, actually today I got the very kind invitation from Dr. Ava Cadelle herself to actually participate in her love biology university. And through my studies there, I will be able to become a certified sex coach and also to teach biology and also maybe to do some media, you know, for that.

And again, you know, what I really want to emphasize through there is also, you know, of course, you know, helping women who maybe have trouble with their sexuality of, because of past trauma or abuse and also in general, just helping women to enjoy in general, to not be ashamed, you know, and to enjoy their sexuality more in whatever way they choose, you know, if they want to write if they want to perform or if they just want to enjoy a good porno, you know, the, and also I want to give them lots of, I’m actually working on a directory of fem porn, you know, to let ladies know about these titles.

And so I figure the Laos, of course eventually. And the, yeah, so she’s very kindly invited me to come aboard and I’m honored. And so, yes, that’s an exclusive, cause I just found out a few hours ago that I’d be doing this.

Speaker 1 (41m 0s): Fantastic. Well, congratulations. So, so how can people find you? How can people find you online?

Speaker 2 (41m 7s): Yes. Well, you can see my work@sexfora.com. You can see my work that S S S h.com. You know, you can, I have a website for my erotic writing and now my titles are available on Amazon. You can also find me@httpcolondoubleslashgoldenmusedottripod.com.

And also most of my titles these days are available through satin romance, which is a division of Milan or Milan publications. And then of course also I have some, you know, I have some filmed, well, you know, the works that I have written the screenplays for at blush erotica. And I’m also going to be doing some erotic writing for their site as well, because they have a whole thing, you know, for a writer writing

Speaker 1 (42m 9s): Fabulous. Well, Megan, I’d really like to thank you for being our guests today and adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 19s): Oh, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for this opportunity, Bruce. It’s been a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (42m 24s): Thank you. The pleasure was all mine. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable. For one, you decide to sell it later. Let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or trending down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area.

I’ve also seen valuations of one time. If the profit is taking a nosedive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and review traffic are the most valuable tube. Traffic, the least valuable is the traffic reliable and sustainable. What is the traffic history?

In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as to profit and the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How hold is the website? Is the website at.com or something else? Dot com is still king. How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost.

How much would it cost to build a site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it, and how much time would be involved? What’s the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week, how to buy a website and next week we’ll be speaking with therapist team, Stephanie and Fox of Evolve Your Intimacy. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Megan Hussey.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Brittany Wilson of the Dungeon Store.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a network of 22 growing affiliate sites. These include adult and affiliate review sites and various topless. The network has grown in traffic and income over time. This is due to the quality of the networks, SEO and other optimization. The network brings in large amounts of sign-ups through pay per sale and revenue share programs. There are also many, two tier affiliate signups generating income, monthly.

The best paying affiliate program accounts are included in the sale. So the buyer won’t have to change all the tracking. The seller will be available to the buyer with some ideas on how to further generate extra revenue, that he did not have a chance to implement himself and to train the new owner on the operation of the sites. Everything is there to get things ready for the new owner to come in and make a lot more money than is currently being made. Since the current owner has moved on to other ventures, only $474,000.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today, the adult side broker talk is Brittany Wilson of the dungeon store. Brittany, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 3 (2m 38s): Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (2m 40s): It’s a pleasure. Now, Brittany is a second generation pleasure products. Professional try saying that three times with a passion for education, knowledge and creation. Wilson became shipping products for her family business, helping prepare for shows and became friends with associates in the business, building a foundation of professional relationships for years to come crafts people in the leather community. Aren’t just your peers, but they close friends and family. When the family brand violet one store rebranded as the dungeon store, Wilson took the reins of social media and started new campaigns.

When the dungeon store acquired split peaches, silicone toys, Wilson took it upon herself to learn how to mix and pour the platinum safe dildos and toys. She would go on to be the face of the business and is often found working the dungeon store booth at leather BDSM and lifestyle events across the United States. She’s a marketing and business professional with dedication above and beyond the nine to five work week. And that’s proven by the fact it’s 9:00 PM where she is now. The Dundrum store is a female owned and operated pleasure products, business priding itself on a curated collection of BDSM gearing, kinky toys, mostly sourced and created by fetish professionals in the United States.

Most of the floggers violent wand, associates, accessories, and paddles are made by hand by experienced crafts people in the BDSM scene. And I’m sorry, Brittany. That’s all the time we have today. So How did the dungeon store gets started?

Speaker 3 (4m 15s): But Dennis story got started as violet Juan store and violet long store got started by my mother, actually her and her business partner saw, you know, a market gap. They saw this like fetish toy that wasn’t getting. I don’t know, it wasn’t, it wasn’t getting the attention and the claim that they felt that it deserved. And her business partner had a bit of a background in electrical understanding and electric engineering, which is why we hand-make all of our accessories.

In-house because you do need to have an understanding of electric electricity and how violet ones work and how current works to make them safely. And so they stepped into that market space and it did not take very long for, you know, expansion expansion happens in business. And so it was violet lawns and then it was violent lawns and floggers, and it was by once floggers and paddles and violent ones. Foggers paddles and glass toys, violent ones, paddles floggers glass toys and sounds and medical.

And now we really just stay on the spectrum of mild to wild. And it’s a fun phrase, but I mean, that, that was seven. I, you know, I’ve given you 17 years in a soundbite, so

Speaker 2 (5m 33s): Very good. That’s how we like it. Okay. So, okay. I’m ignorant. Okay. I really don’t know anything about the BDSM lifestyle or anything like that, personally. What is, what is a violent one?

Speaker 3 (5m 48s): So I’m going to go ahead and make a small correction. A violet. We sell violet like the color walls. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (5m 53s): Yeah. I say that sometimes it comes out violent. I’m sorry.

Speaker 3 (5m 57s): That’s all good. It’s all good. It’s a common misconception. That’s a common mistake. I only correct it cause it makes people more fearful of, and I am trying to sell a fantasy, not a nightmare, violent ones use static electricity to create an arcane spark, which some people find pleasurable in their bedroom activities the way it’s. So it’s a, it’s a service current. You, if you’ve ever like pulled a muscle in your back, you may have used a tens unit where you put the pads on and there’s a sub muscular current that goes back and forth across the pads, which alleviates like muscle pain, joint pain, right.

A violet wand is a service current. So it’s on top of your skin. It’s done far more tactilely.

Speaker 2 (6m 44s): Okay.

Speaker 3 (6m 46s): And it’s funny, it gets this reputation as being kind of like an edge play toy gets this reputation as being violent and, and intense And that’s, and that’s why I like to correct people. Cause I am trying to, you know, we’re trying to break stigmas in the year of our Lord 2022, we’re breaking stigmas, but it’s mostly a sensation toy. Of course you can, you can use it for, to light fire ones and for fireplace and you can use it for prominent skin brands, if you are so inclined.

And I sell the things to do those things, don’t get me wrong, but you can also use it for more intense tickling for sensual massages. You can use it in so many other ways. It really is one of the most versatile BDSM, a Kusama that, that you can, that you can own.

Speaker 2 (7m 33s): Hmm. What, what percentage of your businesses is a violent wants?

Speaker 3 (7m 39s): It varies year over year. I find that it’s, it’s really kind of a boom and a bus cycle because there will come a point at events that we’ve done for years and years for the record, we are mostly an events based business or we’re pre COVID. Now we’re, you know, events online, wholesale, whatever, but pre COVID, what could, what would happen is it would be a top seller like an absolute 77 show. 90% of the show event would be violet won sales, but enough years of the same event with that, you hit a saturation point and then it’s the accessories.

And then enough new people show up at that event that it goes back to being 70%, 90%. And it’s just kind of this endless cycle. As people continue to get into BDSM, as people continue to be exposed, it’s just always going to be a, it’s always going to be a new thing or a thing that people are adding to.

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): Got it. Got it. So how did you get involved in the company?

Speaker 3 (8m 37s): Well, I don’t know if you’ve ever had a parent own a small business, but I swear to God it’s like living in the middle ages where people have children to work the farm. So I stopped. I started

Speaker 2 (8m 49s): Doing

Speaker 3 (8m 52s): Better. It’s better than tilling the land. I got to tell you,

Speaker 2 (8m 55s): I will take

Speaker 3 (8m 56s): Counting boxes over till the earth.

Speaker 2 (8m 59s): No kidding.

Speaker 3 (9m 2s): So when I was of the age of consent, the majority, you know, for, for legal reasons, I would help with the back office stuff. I helped with inventory reconciliation on like orders that she ever, that my mother received. I helped pack shows. I helped load shows into cars to be driven or pack the boxes to be shipped. I helped unload all of those things like I’d started with back office stuff,

Speaker 2 (9m 32s): Manual labor, in other words.

Speaker 3 (9m 34s): Exactly, exactly. And the thing of it is you do enough of the, like I called it bitch work, but sure. We can say manual labor.

Speaker 2 (9m 41s): Of course we can say, we can say anything we want on his podcast for as long as we want it. Okay. Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (9m 49s): And you do bitch work long enough. I wanted to go to events. I wanted to go do the fun part because I’m doing the grueling stuff. I want to go like play dress up and talk to strangers and do the fun stuff. And so once I was of the age where that is acceptable, you know, and not a lawsuit I did and I fell in love with it entirely. I, I love what I do. I think I’m very fortunate that I got to fall in love with my job at 18 years old.

Speaker 2 (10m 17s): That’s awesome. Yeah. I can hear the passion. I could definitely hear the passion. Talk about the evolution and he would know about this cause your mom was in the business before. Talk about the evolution of the pleasure products industry as it relates to BDSM products.

Speaker 3 (10m 34s): Well, it’s, it’s pretty funny because this has been a really interesting time starting, I would say 10 years ago, because for a really long time, the BDSM world existed on the fringes. It was the underground. You couldn’t find it with a map, right? You had to know somebody who knew somebody, five people had to vouch for you. There was a very extensive vetting process because the biggest fear they did the word for it then was being outed.

And now we know it as doxing, but it’s the same fear that your private life will cease to be private and through the rise of acceptance and reducing a state bus, but also low as I am to say this through the popularity of 50 shades of gray, the framework in which we have, these conversations has changed now 50 shades of gray created a very interesting kind of circumstance, right?

Because you had a lot of people who definitely had limited scope interest of getting involved in BDSM, but who also had been sold a fantasy and had a lot of interest in buying that fantasy. Now the fantasy by the way is not that you get tied up and fucked. The fantasy is that a rich man steals you away from your problems. You don’t have to be having kinky sex to one, a rich man to steal you away from your problems.

Speaker 2 (12m 2s): This is true.

Speaker 3 (12m 3s): Like that’s not who, who wouldn’t want that, but because you know, those fantasies it’s the same.

Speaker 2 (12m 9s): Okay. I’m S I’m straight and I wouldn’t mind myself. So going on.

Speaker 3 (12m 12s): Yeah, no. I mean, literally, I don’t know a single person, if I was a rich man, we’ll steal you away from your problems would be like, no, I like problems. No, you fucking don’t don’t lie. Like they don’t. And there’s not a lot of problems that like more money could not at the very least alleviate stress of. So, yeah, but it created this interesting, like influx of new people who just had so many questions and also so little interests, same time. Interesting. And so it was really the, the, the growth of the more vanilla products being part of the more mainstream conversation, like sure.

Vibrators and dildos have been around literally since the Dawn of creation, but you’ve got like Gwenyth Paltrow making crystal dildos on a Netflix show. Like you didn’t, you weren’t going to have that before 50 shades of gray that wasn’t going to be,

Speaker 2 (13m 6s): You know, I’d say, I’d say, I’d say Glen with is a joke, except she makes too much money to be a joke. So anyway, go ahead. Yes.

Speaker 3 (13m 12s): She’s laughing at her own jokes all the way to the bank, her nice Swiss bank accounts, laughing

Speaker 2 (13m 16s): At the jokes.

Speaker 3 (13m 19s): No, literally. So it’s been an interesting evolution because with an influx of those people, there’ve been an influx of products for those people, but at the same time, it’s created the opportunity for more R and D on the higher end for the pre-existing community. And so it’s, anytime you have an influx of new people to a community, it’s an opportunity for that community. Even if those people are temporary tourists and voyeurs, it’s still an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (13m 48s): So suffice to say suffice, to say that the 50 shades of gray helped your industry.

Speaker 3 (13m 56s): I was going to help the industry as a whole overall, I would say it had an overall net positive benefit to the industry as a whole. I also think in a, in outside of the spectrum of products for a minute, just the spectrum of, of people, it really helped start conversations about negotiation and consent outside of the BDSM community, Which is really important because we take that very seriously. And it it’s a, it’s a refreshing change of pace, right?

Like I, I am a millennial woman. I got to tell you that no one was talking about negotiation and consent. When I was in high school, taking sex ed, that was not a conversation that anyone was telling us we’re supposed to be having. And now that’s, that’s part of that’s part of sex. Ed. That’s a core fundamental is, Hey, we have to talk about what we’re going to do. We have to make sure that everybody’s on the same page. The definition of consent has changed.

Speaker 2 (14m 51s): Definition

Speaker 3 (14m 52s): Of consent used to be, she didn’t scream. No. And now the definition of consent is enthusiastic. Verbal affirmation.

Speaker 2 (15m 0s): That’s a totally

Speaker 3 (15m 1s): Different

Speaker 2 (15m 1s): And needless to stay, say, as a boomer, it wasn’t in my sex ed either.

Speaker 3 (15m 6s): I don’t know for sure you guys had sex ed. Cause I got to tell you the joke I always make. Cause our grandmothers learned sex ed from their boyfriend, their husbands, which is why our mothers got it in school, which is why we now have to learn BDSM from our friends.

Speaker 2 (15m 19s): I love it. I love it. So what items does the dungeon store distribute as opposed to selling directly to the consumer?

Speaker 3 (15m 29s): A lot of the stuff we distribute is also available on our website and you just won’t find it at events. But the biggest thing I can think of is we have a very robust like puppy play line that is available on our website. It just doesn’t get picked up for purchase right off often there, but we wholesale it.

Speaker 2 (15m 48s): Okay. You called it. You called it. You called it puppy play line.

Speaker 3 (15m 52s): Yeah. Puppy play. So

Speaker 2 (15m 55s): This has nothing to do with dogs obviously, right?

Speaker 3 (15m 58s): No that’s BS. You don’t do that. Animals and children cannot give informed consent.

Speaker 2 (16m 4s): No, I, I knew that. I knew, I knew that I knew the answer to that, but it was a good joke. So anyway,

Speaker 3 (16m 9s): It’s a great joke. It’s a great joke. Unfortunately, I ha I did want to do an interview with someone who proceeded to Ben talk about beastiality. So I’ve got to be really quick.

Speaker 2 (16m 18s): Yeah, I would. Yeah. I would not talk to anyone like that for sure.

Speaker 3 (16m 24s): No, no, it was not. It was not ideal. But are you familiar with puppy play at all? Do you want me to

Speaker 2 (16m 31s): Please explain?

Speaker 3 (16m 32s): So puppy play is very popular in the gay community. However, there is nothing that precludes everyone else from participating. And there are puppies. There are pups across the entire spectrum of LGBTQ and BDSM. And poppy play is people who feel a strong affinity towards being a dog. And there’s different breeds. Some identify as a golden retriever, some identify as Labradors, some identify as German shepherds, great Danes, pugs, corgis.

What have you? And you wear it. You wear a hood shaped like a dog said, you wear a tail which can either a fixed to your belt or be part of a plug. You have myths on your front, on your hands that turn them into effectively paws, very often kneepads. And you go into pubs, pup, Headspace, which is like subspace. So you’re, it’s very, you know, you’re a dog. You’re not in charge.

It’s a variation of subspace and there’s a lot of puppy players have packs. So there’s an alpha and a beta and so on and so forth. I don’t know all the Greek letters of PacLife. I only know my Greek letters for COVID variations. I don’t know them

Speaker 2 (17m 51s): For

Speaker 3 (17m 52s): Personality types. And it’s, it’s a very, it’s a, it’s a fun community. Honestly. I

Speaker 2 (17m 58s): Love

Speaker 3 (17m 59s): Oh, there, oh, they’re a trip. Oh, they’re the best. They are the best

Speaker 2 (18m 3s): I, because

Speaker 3 (18m 3s): Who doesn’t love dogs. Right? Like they are people

Speaker 2 (18m 6s): I told you before the interview, I have six and a, I just saw a picture of you with a dog. So there you go. We love dogs.

Speaker 3 (18m 13s): Exactly. So people who are like dogs, they are, they are loving, loyal, helpful. They’re ideal. They’re awesome. Fucking level. But so we don’t, we don’t sell a lot of pop stuff on the website just because percentage wise it doesn’t, it is a small community, but we sell a lot of it in distribution. We sell more sounds in distribution. Interestingly enough, then we sell on the website or at events. Are you familiar with sounds,

Speaker 2 (18m 41s): You’re going to have to educate me on everything.

Speaker 3 (18m 43s): Okie dokie sounds are for penis urethral, insertion.

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): Ah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. How has the market for violent? See, I did the violent again. Violet ones evolved.

Speaker 3 (19m 1s): I would say it’s grown. It’s also interestingly enough. So it’s grown by leaps and bounds and part of why it has grown in leaps and bounds is because there are two types of violet ones. However, until that 10 to 20 years ago, there was only one type. So there was one type a, which has been, which will be called Tesla, electromechanical, wax core wax, capacitor, a traditional old style.

What have you? And then 10 to 20 years ago, I’m a little shaky on the exact year, just by virtue of being a minor. When this happened there S state version came on the scene and that cut the price somewhere between in half and by two thirds.

Speaker 2 (19m 55s): Wow. So what’s the, so what’s the difference between these two products

Speaker 3 (20m 0s): Straight out now, intensity, that being said, there are a lot of solid states on the market. You can get one from Amazon for a hundred dollars and then you have a hundred dollar thing. Bear in mind, it’s it’s counterpart is like $600. So this is kind of one of those moments where you get exactly what you paid for. And the thing is yes. So the way that their internal mechanisms work is different.

Electromechanical is a mechanical device. It has moving internal parts. It’s why it has a much higher output. Solid state is in a solid state. I don’t know how much you know about computers, but it’s like a solid drive. So

Speaker 2 (20m 43s): I know, I do know that. Yes.

Speaker 3 (20m 47s): So

Speaker 2 (20m 48s): I noticed something,

Speaker 3 (20m 49s): I believe. I think, you know, a lot of things,

Speaker 2 (20m 52s): To be honest

Speaker 3 (20m 53s): At the very least the best place to find dogs in Thailand, it turns out your front door. So solid state is in a solid state. It’s a much simpler device. Now it’s out and out. Raw output is less than electromechanical. I will not lie to you about that. Right? That being said, I sell a solid state one. That’s powerful enough to light a firewall or permanently brand someone’s skin. And I don’t know what people are doing that is more powerful than that, but I’m not entirely sure I should be helping to facilitate it at a certain time.

Speaker 2 (21m 25s): You are, you are correct. You are correct. Well, I’m sure there’s lots of terms and conditions on the website. You must, I’m sure you I’m sure you’ve got wonderful lawyers. How long have solid state lawns been around and what should retailers be looking for when buying them for their store?

Speaker 3 (21m 44s): Like I said, they’ve been around 10 to 20 years. I’m a little, I’m a little shaky on that. Exact, I want to say about 15, but that’s really just splitting the difference. I would say they got good in the last 12 years. I would say the first two years, they weren’t that good. They weren’t worth buying, but in the last 12, I would say they’ve gotten really good. And I think what you should look for is first of all, I think that for something like a violet wand, what retailers should look for is that the sales person knows what they’re talking about.

If they can’t tell you what makes theirselves say on different, if they can’t quote some specs, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t trust that person. And I think that that applies to the sale of all things. Not for nothing for solid state. You should look for as a, as a retailer, you should be looking for ones that they guarantee what’s called the call it size, which is where the accessories fit into the device.

Speaker 2 (22m 46s): Okay.

Speaker 3 (22m 47s): Because hypothetic, most solid states come with, it’s a universal call. It, there are a couple that don’t have the same college. If your college is out of variation with everybody, else’s, you’re going to have a problem. If you try to wholesale, if you try to distribute other accessories, you’re going to end up jammed up on, well, we sell this device and these accessories for this device, but they don’t fit this device.

Speaker 2 (23m 12s): None of them, none of them fit together.

Speaker 3 (23m 14s): Right. Right. So here are multiple pieces from different jigsaw puzzles, best of luck.

Speaker 2 (23m 21s): Have a nice time doing the puzzle,

Speaker 3 (23m 23s): Right. Would that be cash or card? Like that’s not, not an ideal circumstance to find yourself in.

Speaker 2 (23m 31s): No, exactly.

Speaker 3 (23m 33s): So that would be what I would look for.

Speaker 2 (23m 35s): Okay. Now talking about your, your violet lawn, et cetera, right? This time, your violet wallet, accessories, what makes these different from what would be found online? Well, let’s just say at, at Amazon or other stores and what dispart gapping for safety mean,

Speaker 3 (23m 54s): I’m so happy you asked about spar. So first of all, before we get into spark optics, spark gabbing for safety, what makes our accessories different and low? The might’ve say better, but if the shoe fits is we have, what’s called a dual purpose handle, which means that all of our accessories that fit in the wand can also be used outside of the wand with what’s called a body contact cable, no body contact cable allowed.

I was about to tell, I wasn’t even gonna ask this time

Speaker 2 (24m 29s): Because you knew I had no idea didn’t you?

Speaker 3 (24m 31s): Yep. I’ve gotten I’ve, I’ve gotten the memo. I understand where we’re

Speaker 2 (24m 34s): At

Speaker 3 (24m 36s): Body contact cable fits in the wand and then attaches to either the top or the bottom. And it allows for skin to skin shocking because it electrifies, whoever is strapped to the, to the wand. So it means that everywhere from the tip of your nose to the tips of your toes is conductive, which also means anything metal that you pick up and touch will also conduct electricity.

Speaker 2 (25m 2s): Okay.

Speaker 3 (25m 3s): So our dual purpose handles, you can hold in your hand and use that way opposed to just fitting in the wand and how their spark app ties directly into that. You want a spark app for safety to make sure that the grounding is secure to make sure that the, to make sure that there’s not going to be errant electricity cause of surprise, Aron electricity is dangerous.

Speaker 2 (25m 32s): Yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course. I do know enough about electricity to know that, and I know that you need a ground. So how do you, how do you get in a situation where there’s grounding

Speaker 3 (25m 44s): By virtue of being a surface current? And so by virtue of being a service current, the one that is basically self grounding.

Speaker 2 (25m 51s): Oh, that’s good. That’s good. That’s, that’s definitely safe.

Speaker 3 (25m 55s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (25m 56s): That’s the idea.

Speaker 3 (25m 58s): Cause it’s, cause it’s S it’s all based on complete completion of a circuit. So when you are the conductor and you touch something metal, and then you use that metal thing to talk to someone else, like you’ve completed the circuit and that’s how it goes.

Speaker 2 (26m 11s): Okay. Okay, man, you need an advanced degree in electronics to do your job. So how far away should electronics like cell phones, tablets, and computers be from a violet lawn when shooting a video. And is this something that’s practical for camming or shooting clips?

Speaker 3 (26m 31s): I have definitely known people to shoot clips of violet wands. And I got to tell you sometimes I think that they did it by sacrificing a Virgin goat at the nexus of a full moon in terms of safety for electronics. So long as you don’t shock any electronics directly, you’re going to be fine. I wear a watch every day in my life that I do my job. I could, I attach a body contact, able to the same arm that the smartwatch is on. I’ve never had a problem.

My phone is normally in my pocket or clip to my skirt. You want to make sure that you don’t shock any electric, any electronic device directly? Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27m 11s): Probably be a really good idea.

Speaker 3 (27m 13s): I will also, oh, real quick, real quick. Cause we, we, we kind of glossed over this, but I do want to give a little safety warning on violet ones. You cannot use them safely. If you have a pacemaker defibrillator, cochlear implant or insulin pump, because all of those things

Speaker 2 (27m 33s): Will

Speaker 3 (27m 33s): Have their little computer shorted out. Once you get shocked.

Speaker 2 (27m 37s): Yeah. You don’t want to have a, have a pacemaker and have it get shorted out. That’s not

Speaker 3 (27m 42s): Good.

Speaker 2 (27m 44s): I’m not that I’m not that old yet. So that’s a good thing. I know you don’t have to be

Speaker 3 (27m 50s): Old.

Speaker 2 (27m 51s): Yeah, I know. Well, let’s hope. Let’s hope. My dear, I just, just celebrated 64 in October. So a

Speaker 3 (27m 59s): Happy belated.

Speaker 2 (28m 0s): Thank you. Yeah. I’ve got a big one coming up in 2022 for sure. We’ve we’ve noticed you’ve got quite a bit of rope on your site and you’ve focused on rope bondage for shows like for all ICAN and tethered together. How hard is it to get started with Shibari? And as it’s something a performer can do solo on cam,

Speaker 3 (28m 22s): How hard is it to get started with Jabari so long as you have nimble and dextrous fingers, anyone can get into Shibari and patients. Oh, you have to have patience. You got to have

Speaker 2 (28m 33s): Patience.

Speaker 3 (28m 36s): You’ve got to have patience because, eh, but I will say it is one.

Speaker 2 (28m 39s): Yeah. That counts me out to both the fingers and the patient’s counseling.

Speaker 3 (28m 43s): I always

Speaker 2 (28m 47s): Know. And I always tell, I always, I always, I always tell people I’m not a doctor. I don’t need patients. So anyway,

Speaker 3 (28m 53s): Ooh, I like that. I’m going to use that.

Speaker 2 (28m 56s): You, you, you have my, you have my permission to use it

Speaker 3 (28m 59s): Much obliged Sarah, much obliged. So Shibari is, it’s not hard to get into. You just need to study is what it is. It is an art form that requires practice and study as all art forms do. As far as doing it alone, some of the best Shibari I’ve ever seen is self suspension. And in order to do self suspension, you need to know how to do self ties.

Speaker 2 (29m 24s): Sure. You know, I, the first, the first shoot that I ever witnessed was at kink and man, that’s, that’s really interesting. The kind of stuff they do there.

Speaker 3 (29m 39s): Oh, I’m sure.

Speaker 2 (29m 40s): Yeah. Yeah. They did a, they did a live shoot at the, at a party way back when, when, why not had their San Francisco party, we’re talking probably I would say it’s 15 years or so ago. It’s about the time I met my wife because my wife was with me and this poor type, this poor innocent Thai girl is, is, is that this event with me. And she had never seen a live shoot either. And I’m sure I’m sure that got her attention for sure.

Speaker 3 (30m 13s): Ah, that’s how you want to re well, we know you didn’t win her over with your nimble fingers.

Speaker 2 (30m 17s): Well, that damn sure. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I’ll accept that. I’ll accept that. I’ll accept that. What rope do you recommend performers start with and what books do you recommend for bondage?

Speaker 3 (30m 32s): I recommend that everybody starts with MFP because it ties easy. It’s synthetic. So it’s great. Once you hit suspension, it is a very forgiving rope. If you make mistakes while you’re learning.

Speaker 2 (30m 50s): Okay.

Speaker 3 (30m 51s): So I, I think that everyone should start with things that are forgiving. And as far as books go, there’s the two naughty boys books, which are phenomenal too naughty boy, showing you the ropes do not always back on the ropes. And then there’s also Lee Harrington’s books, Shibari you can use and more Shamara you can use. I think that those four books, really some of everything you need to go from an absolute, no nothing. It’s my first day.

How do I tie like a clove hitch basically to pro very proficient clove hitches, the type of night you tie when you’re camping.

Speaker 2 (31m 34s): Ah, see, I’m not one, see, I don’t know camping either. So definitely a Jewish American prince. So, so in, in, in event photos, we’ve seen some items that aren’t on the site like insertable, violet, wand, toys, Shibari rings for suspension and wax play candles. And how does someone order those items from you online?

Speaker 3 (31m 58s): I would strongly recommend that if anyone sees something at an event or an event based picture that they want to order and is not on the site, just drop me an email sales up that I just started.com. There’s always a reason stuff. Isn’t on the site and it has a lot to do with what makes the most sense for some of the small manufacturers we work with. And I’ve got to respect everybody’s map agreements and I’ve, I’ve got to make it work for everybody. So there’s always a reason, but I can sell them to you. It’ll be a direct invoice.

It’ll be an email. I’m the same reputable business. I’m the same person, whether it’s an email in order event based sale. What have you

Speaker 2 (32m 38s): Hold on? Was the company been around by the way?

Speaker 3 (32m 40s): I want to say 19 years

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): As fantastic. That’s that’s quite a legacy.

Speaker 3 (32m 47s): Yes. Yes it is.

Speaker 2 (32m 49s): How involved is your mom in the business today?

Speaker 3 (32m 52s): Still very involved. She definitely runs the finances. Jeez. She’s very, she does the finances. She still does events. She still teaches classes on violet ones. She’s very involved. She just delegates very well.

Speaker 2 (33m 10s): Excellent. How many people in your team?

Speaker 3 (33m 14s): Probably about 15 to various degrees of involvement.

Speaker 2 (33m 20s): Okay. Okay. So tell us a bit about split peaches. How did you acquire the company and will it be expanding this year?

Speaker 3 (33m 29s): So as I said, pre COVID, we were mostly events based sales and then COVID happened. And I don’t know if you saw the news, but there was no such thing as an event of any kind anymore. So in an effort to pivot, we looked to expand and a platinum silicone Dell company that had preexisting wholesale contracts and a great online market space seemed like the way to go. And so that was, that was how we got there.

And it will be expanding in 2022. One of the things to look out for on this pizza site, we’re in the process of completely overhauling it. And we’re going to create a listing for the one-offs there’s of course the dildos that you can always get our rainbow unicorn horns, our bronze Riveters, our silver screw use always available, same colors. We offer everything through different densities, but it’s the same color regardless of the density. We’re also gonna create a listing for some of the more fun ones, the one-offs Hey, what does this color look like in this shape?

Oh, do we like that? Do we not? And so we’re going to really expand in that direction. We’re going to expand. We should have some new shapes out sometime in 2022, which will be, which I’m really excited about. It should be a really great growth potential for the business.

Speaker 2 (34m 48s): Fabulous. Now kinky.com did a nice piece regarding the adjustable strap on harnesses. Tell us a bit about it. And if it’s available for distribution,

Speaker 3 (34m 59s): It’s absolutely available for distribution, virtually everything is available for distribution. I promise. So the cool thing about this strap on harness, how familiar are you with strap-on harnesses?

Speaker 2 (35m 12s): I’m about as familiar as I am with everything else. Although I’ve seen strap on harnesses used before.

Speaker 3 (35m 19s): Okay. So most shop on harnesses have a buckle system. It’s like a belt, right? So you find the loop, that’s the closest to the right side or the, you know, and you put it through, you put the peg through the hole and that’s as close as you get to the right size. And it very often leads to slippage. It leads to poor positioning of both off physical harness in terms of where the weight is distributed on your hips and also where the actual dildo sits on your

Speaker 2 (35m 46s): Body.

Speaker 3 (35m 47s): This harness is designed to it’s. Everything is two D-rings. So it’s a hundred percent adjustable it’s designed to fit everybody instead of just the bodies where the belt is designed to fit. So every single, both, both thighs around the waist is all on 100% adjustable harness, which makes it a much more comfortable fit it’s made of a soft American leather. So it’s not as likely to shave. It’s got three different rings that are interchangeable for various size girth, still dose it’s phenomenally comfortable.

And the face plate behind the dildo is actually also interchangeable. So it comes in black, red, blue, purple, yellow, and orange.

Speaker 2 (36m 34s): Very good. Now you earlier mentioned penis plugs and those things you called sounds. Tell me a little more about how they’re used and are there any risks involved and are they just for penises as opposed to a female’s urethra?

Speaker 3 (36m 51s): So how they’re used with a lot of lube and slowly

Speaker 2 (36m 56s): I hope.

Speaker 3 (36m 57s): Yes. Yes, yes. And you want to always go slow in graduating sizes because there are sounds that come in size based kits and you just want to go very slowly as you increase the size. Yes. Risk factors. So long as everything’s sterile and you go slow and you make sure you’re being smart with your lubrication, fairly negligible as far as BDSM goes. And what was the I’m sorry, what was the third part of the question?

Speaker 2 (37m 27s): How about, are they just for penises or can women use them?

Speaker 3 (37m 31s): I have known women who I have known people with vaginas who have used them

Speaker 2 (37m 40s): Women as opposed to people with vaginas. Okay.

Speaker 3 (37m 43s): Inclusive language. I have no idea with vaginas. Who’ve used them. I generally tend to recommend them for, for use with a penis,

Speaker 2 (37m 53s): But I’m

Speaker 3 (37m 54s): Not

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): That’s, that’s why, that’s why, that’s why they call them the penis plugs. I think

Speaker 3 (37m 59s): I, I’m not the kink police. I’m not going to follow you home and make sure you’re using everything and the way that I think it should be used, it’s your body.

Speaker 2 (38m 6s): Wouldn’t

Speaker 3 (38m 6s): Like,

Speaker 2 (38m 9s): Honestly,

Speaker 3 (38m 9s): I have too many other jobs to also be the kink police and no one likes a narc.

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): Ah, you’re right. You’re right. So what products is your company looking to get out there for this year?

Speaker 3 (38m 20s): Right. I think for this year, what we’re really looking to do for the dungeon store is grow out. What’s called what we call our important collection.

Speaker 2 (38m 29s): Our time

Speaker 3 (38m 29s): Collection is all of the, one of a kind high, more high-end BDSM products. It’s the stuff that you only see at shows. It’s the one of a kind, floggers the one of a kind paddles. And I think we’re really looking to grow that out on the website so that even if you’re not someone who’s going to events for whatever reason, be it safety, be it finance, be it timing, scheduling what have you. You still have the opportunity to buy those things. From what I like to think is a trusted supplier from a real business that has real experience in this very real market space.

Speaker 2 (39m 5s): Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39m 7s): So

Speaker 2 (39m 8s): Makes perfect sense. Well, Hey Brittany, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we get a chance to do this again real soon.

Speaker 3 (39m 17s): Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (39m 19s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well has your content been protected from piracy and what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy take down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates? The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be.

What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site. Do you use a billing or affiliate software like gnats? What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day?

Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend a producer by the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your website? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale.

Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a nondisclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will, of course be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don’t know. Adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours. And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They will also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as the price and any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected.

We, those resources, of course, we’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Megan Hussey, the feminist sex,

Speaker 5 (41m 45s): And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Brittany Wilson of the Dungeon Store. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Jack Polo of Mach Media.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. A tube site that has full length to BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is three years old. They are currently the only free to providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user requests and user provided content after moderation. The owners started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it.

And he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular on Reddit and business sword. The owner has decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry, the sites visitors come back again. And again, due to its uniqueness, they have over 13,000 premium videos, and most of them are 30 minutes or longer with more videos and categories. The site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There is no advertising for the site.

All of the traffic is either type in or from SEO. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic, only 269,000 us dollars. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today and adult site broker talk is Jack polo of triple X playground. Jack, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 48s): Oh, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 49s): It’s a pleasure. Now, Jack is the founder and CEO of MOC media. Their premier brand is triple X playground. Jack comes from a 30 plus background in music production. He transitioned in 2014 into the adult industry. He devotes his time to developing effective tools for couples looking to build stronger bonds and take their relationship to the next level of intimacy. Triple X playground is a platform for adults who have something in common, their love for venturing into new Heights when it comes to their sexual intimacy, triple X playground is a fun-filled game that could be played amongst couples and with a third person or in a group will provide an opportunity to explore different sexual realms and suggestively take you to a sexual height.

You might have needed help discovering it’s located@triplexplayground.com. This holistic tool was created with the intention of perfecting a medium or adults can bask in uninhibited sexual communication, all the while bridging the gap and eliminating awkwardness, criticism and judgment as a result, building stronger, healthier bonds filled with love and trust. The game is ideal for any intimate adult relationship or environment. They pride themselves in being the guide to the pursuit of sexual pleasure.

Sorry, Jack. That’s all we have time for today.

Speaker 2 (4m 15s): I said pretty well.

Speaker 1 (4m 18s): Yeah, you weren’t. You were, you weren’t sure that was a, that was a joke, huh? Okay. So you obviously have a very vast background. So why don’t you tell me a bit about yourself, where you come from and your background,

Speaker 2 (4m 34s): As you mentioned earlier, you know, I have 30 plus year background in music, music production to be exact as well as audio engineering. So that was my, my forte per se for the last 30 years, 30 plus years. And then I switched over in about 2014 and I decided, you know, my music moment, even my passion for music kind of ran its course, and I wanted to venture into something new, something that I was very familiar with.

And I decided to go into the communications sector of, for adults from reading so many books on psychology and, and just the process of how women process and how men process and couples and going to couples therapy myself within several relationships. I, I gained a lot of knowledge throughout the years and I realized that there were, there was a need for certain, a medium for couples to kind of put their guards down, to be able to learn how to communicate more effectively due to technology.

I think that we are hindered with that even more so, even though it makes it easier to communicate or faster, as far as the instant gratification, I think the getting to know a person and that, that whole, you know, that intimate sector of communicating is kind of lost. And I think that there there’s a need for those types of tools to have healthier relationships overall and just teach each other how to learn one another, what to look for. And I thought that the ideal platform would be a universal language that everyone spoke and I thought sensuality would be that.

So I traded tools within that sector.

Speaker 1 (6m 28s): That’s cool. I D I did note an east coast accent.

Speaker 2 (6m 32s): Yes. I’m from New York born and raised in, in Corona Queens and raised in Jackson Heights, Queens. For the most part of my life. I was raised in Queensland. As of recently, I moved out to the west coast and now in Laguna Niguel pool, like right by Laguna beach. It’s beautiful orange county.

Speaker 1 (6m 53s): Yes, it is. Yes, that is so, so, so you’re, so you’re enjoying the west coast, huh?

Speaker 2 (6m 59s): I’m enjoying it. I’m loving the west coast. It’s just, it’s just so much more peaceful out here. And, you know, you can really, really get into your creativity out here without, with minimal distractions, if you will.

Speaker 1 (7m 13s): That’s awesome. Yeah. So the winners are much nicer.

Speaker 2 (7m 17s): Well, it’s winter now and it’s what 60 degrees. So that’s pretty funny, right? Sweater. And you forget about the big triple goose or anything like that. You don’t need that anymore

Speaker 1 (7m 31s): Just

Speaker 2 (7m 31s): In a storage.

Speaker 1 (7m 33s): Yeah, that sounds good. Sounds good to me. Now, tell me about your, your career as a music producer.

Speaker 2 (7m 39s): Okay. So as a music producer, I actually, I’ve been in music since the age of nine. Wow. As a DJ and I started deejaying. And at that time we used to make what was called mixed tapes. So I, I started making these mix tapes, and then there were these battles that we would have in different neighborhoods. And we would battle for equipment rapidly. I became pretty popular because I was pretty good and I was winning all my battles. And I was winning so many records and turntables and mixers from other DJs, about 16 years old, I went to audio engineering school.

It’s a sensor for the media arts. And I got a degree in audio engineering. And while mentor James Mason taught me how to produce music. So I started producing and that just turned into me getting a job at power play studios, which is a legendary hip hop studio. And I got signed to Sony epic records within six months was an artist under a group called SSL smoking circus with logic. And we released our debuted album in 2000.

I mean, excuse me, 1993 and 1993. And it did, it did okay. The group broke up shortly after that, I became a independent producer. I did a lot of work for the label and for many other labels. And then I became a, I formed an actual music production company. And I did that for many years up till about 2010. Then it took a hiatus for two or three years and I came back and I said, you know what? I don’t want to do music anymore.

I was just burnt out from the whole music thing. And just so many how it affected my personal relationships and or the trials and tribulations that I went through personally, because of putting my music career in the forefront, I guess I was in my selfish stages. And, and so, but something the silver lining was that I learned so much about communicating effectively. And I took that information and I, I was actually dared to create a board game that would be suffice to the needs of me and my girlfriend at the time.

And she dared me and I was up for the challenge. So I created it. And the way I create from coming from musical background, I create like a grid like patterns in grids and numbers. So no one could understand my formula. And then I kind of shelved that. And then we get to 2014 and I’m like, you know what? I shouldn’t manufacturer a prototype and see if this thing is actually going to really work. And so I did. And in 2014, I made my actually 2013, I made my first prototype and I started having fun with it.

And I started inviting girls over. I was single and I would play the game with different people and I’d get raving reviews about the game and everyone wanted a copy of the game or to buy the only copy that I had. So I was like, wow, this is pretty interesting. And from, that came around 2014, I started doing for like, like unformal gatherings of friends and friends of friends.

And I would, it would be all d’oeuvres and like tequila and like even some weed smoking or whatever. And then, and then I dunno where I would say, Hey guys, can I have your attention? And I would do a PowerPoint presentation. And there would be people that were heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual. It was all types of people there. And I would have these questionnaires that I would hand out and I would get feedback about what they saw or the game board that I unveiled and the PowerPoint presentation that I did.

What did they think? So that was my whole point. I wanted to see what people thought about the game. And I got a lot of great creative criticism. And from that I made a adjustments and then I made another prototype and so on and so on. And to the point where in 2017, I was offered funding. And then we set forth to figure out a marketing strategy and everything. But by then, I had already developed about 30 products. And, and on paper I developed about I two other services that I haven’t launched yet.

So it’s a brand, it’s not just a game right now. And this game is not just a game. This game is an experience. You know, you buy this game and it’s never the same play twice. There are 400 cards in the game and, and there are refill packs as well. So if you can imagine, like when, when a couple gets this game, I made a key that the woman always feel secure and feel safe. And in that sense, the woman sets the environment.

She had picks the card she feels comfortable playing with, and she puts the rest to the side this way. She sets the soft limits and the hard limits in playing the game. And that’s the same time. It’s still random because it depends on what color you land on the board that you have to either pick the cards or roll the dice. That being said, it’s still there’s that sponsored annuity. And I took all the trivia out of the game. I didn’t want any trivia because that’s the last thing that people are looking for when they’re flowing.

If you know what I mean? So I left it a lot of action. And even though cop-out cards have the black cards for answering a quick question, those questions are, I have, they’ve been edited at least 18 times, you know, by all walks of life as well, to make sure that they were not offensive and that they were something that would be easy to answer yet informative because the whole point is about couples learning each other, learning what their interests are, what they would like from the other without having to ask for them and make it awkward because of a fear of judgment or criticism, mainly from the woman’s part, but not, not solely.

Sometimes men are afraid to ask for what they desire as well. So it goes both ways. So I thought in this way, this was an incredible tool to help couples bridge that gap in communication. Yeah. And from that, and it just organically grew into the marketing plan for the entire concept of this product. Because then I said, you know what? This is more than just a game. And then I said, this is a communication tool.

And that’s fantastic because we don’t have any communication tools on this level of sensuality and sexuality on the market today. And in the same respect, it’s, it’s never the same thing twice. You know what I mean? So you get to learn your partner and you get to grow with it. You know, you get to grow with the game. I sold like 1500 units, a little more than that far. I have zero returns, zero returns and raving reviews.

That’s awesome. Nominated for, you know, game of sex game of the year by amny experts, as you know, and hopefully we win. But you know, even if we don’t, you know, that’s okay because right now as it is, we’re getting a lot of traction. We’re getting a lot of people that want to buy into this company right now. But you know, I’m, I’m holding off because I, I wanna, I want to bring the company to a certain level.

I can see being offered the right amount of money. I’m not trying to buy it, sell it out.

Speaker 1 (15m 42s): I don’t want to leave. You don’t want to leave money on the table. There’s no two ways about it. I tell him, I tell my clients that all the time.

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): Yeah. I don’t want to do that, but I don’t want to sell out either. I mean, I have my products. I stand behind them because I believe in them with all my passion. So if I was to give this up to somebody right now, they wouldn’t know what to do with it. They didn’t create it. You have to wait for this to unravel to a solid brand, a, to a point where people just it’s synonymous with the best sex game you can buy in the market. Triple X playground. I not, because I said it, but because the, you know, the masses have said it because the people have spoken and that’s the point I want to get to.

And like I said, this is only our first product, right. So we have a whole lot of products coming down the pipeline.

Speaker 1 (16m 32s): That’s awesome. So you, yeah, you obviously are passionate. What motivates you?

Speaker 2 (16m 38s): Okay. So I mean, what motivates me in general? I mean, I learned, well, what motivates me is when I take on a project, I’m so meticulous with things that I want to make sure I, that my, I crossed my T’s. I said, groups of milestones and I give myself a timeline. And I know that when I finished that group of milestones, I have, I have reached a goal, but I know that there are many goals to reach. And so I’m very adamant about reaching these goals.

I work very hard at this I’m 24 7 with this company and with this brand. And I mean, other than that, I guess what people usually say, which I, I mean, I’m a father of four, so my children motivate me. My children know what I do. You know, it took them a while to figure it out like that. You’ve been doing music your whole life. Now you’re doing this. I’m like, yes. And one thing I know for sure is that sex always sells. Right. But in the same respect, there’s a lack of communication. So when you put that together, it sounds like, like a golden recipe to me, you know, it just makes sense to me.

This really makes sense to me. So that’s what motivates me that I want to help people. And I want to, I want to help relationships. I’ve been in relationships that I wish would have worked that have been in relationships that I messed up. Yeah. And so, and I learned from those things. So if I could, you know, that, that cliche saying, if you could turn back time, there was no turning back time. Time is infinite. It keeps going. But what you can do is gain wisdom from your biggest mistakes, and that’s what I’ve worked on.

And that’s what I try to help people with that, through, through my tools that they can, I could help them have longer lasting relationships, better relationships, maybe even forever, you know, like, yeah. And that’s pretty the pretty much the purpose. And that’s what motivates me now.

Speaker 1 (18m 38s): Why did you choose to get into adult entertainment?

Speaker 2 (18m 42s): Well, you know, I was doing music for 30 plus years and, you know, I did get nominated for a Grammy and didn’t win. And in that, in that industry, it was so cutthroat. And ah, I just got so tired of it. Plus I didn’t have the soft skills that you would need to be successful in that industry at that time. And so it just, it’s all about timing, right. So it just wasn’t meant to be because I gave music my entire life.

And so about the age of 45 and I’m 52 years old, by the way. And so, you know, I, I said, okay, I did, you know, I’ve done, I’ve dabbled in my own, you know, leisure activities, if you will, you know, checking and smoking, whatever. So I’m like, all right, I did music, you know, rock and roll. I did, you know, some drugs in my life. Okay. Now I don’t right. I smoke a little weed, that’s it. And then I’m like, but I never did like anything in sex.

So sex, drugs, and rock and roll. As cliche as that may sound, I’m a musician at heart. And I’m like, I got that game that I created. So why don’t I enhance that and work on that. And so that drove me to work on the aesthetics and then, you know, I just, I like nice things. So I said, I got to make this plush. I got to make this game look phenomenal so that it just, there’s no competition aesthetically. And then I got to show people how good the game plays, like the game flow.

And that will take some, you know, educating, but that’s okay. I’m, I’m, I’m up for the challenge. And so that’s really what got me into it. I said, you know, what, what turned it? What began, what began as a fun task, became an obsession, which developed into a brand in my head on paper. And I’m like, wow, I really have something here. And then I spoke to some, like some financeers and people like that, not for funding, but just for their opinions, because they’re successful businessmen and they were blown away.

I mean, this is on maybe three or four different occasions. I spoke to four different groups of people and they were blown away by the idea, the concept and just the passion, the drive that I had to make this a reality, like this is going to take off. And I’m like, really? So I respect them intellectually. And I said, you know, they’re very successful businessman. I said, you know what? This is, I got something here. And so I just dove into it full fledge. And I haven’t, I haven’t looked back since that’s absolutely.

That’s really what drives me to do this.

Speaker 1 (21m 30s): Okay. So how did you originally come up with the concept of triple X playground

Speaker 2 (21m 36s): Originally? Like I said before, it was a dare. I was dead.

Speaker 1 (21m 41s): You mentioned that.

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): Yeah, I was there. So I went on a couple of dates with this girl and, you know, we would go to sex shops, we’d come out of the club, maybe tips and go to a sex shop to get some toys or whatever. And we’d always pick up a game just for, I guess, shits and giggles. And they sucked and the games weren’t good. They weren’t, they were poorly made. It was no psychological approach whatsoever. They weren’t well thought out and the graphics were horrendous and the way the quality was just flimsy, it was more like a gag that you give at like, you know, a bridal shower or something.

And I was like, Yeah, I was like, this is not cool. And so that’s where the challenge came from. And I was like, yeah, I’ll do that. And, and so I, I set out to do it. And like I said before, then I shelved it. And then I went back a couple of years later and I looked into it and started working on the graphics and, and I hired like one of the best graphics designers that I know in New York to help me. And we worked on it for like six months. Like everything was no, no, no.

And so finally he figured what I was trying to convey to him that I was looking for. And, and the rest is history. I mean, after that, you know, we, I, I have actually four different games, so this is only the first one, the other three came naturally.

Speaker 1 (23m 5s): Yeah. Get into a little more information about the whole creative process and, and take it from thinking about the concept to the actual launch where you’re selling it and the steps along the way,

Speaker 2 (23m 19s): Like I said, I conceptualized the thought on like a grid, a mathematical grid. And then I started thinking, okay, I can’t make this game too complex. I have to keep it very fundamental, very basic. And then I also thought, okay, it’s a sexual game in nature. So I can’t disturb the flow either. So trivia is completely out. And then I said, okay, has to stay exciting, exciting. And it to be to the point where some of the cards are obscure, like, whoa, we’ve never done that.

You have to just let your imagination run wild and really think of some really off the, off the charts, thoughts of things to do get creative. Right. And so I did, I created coupons. I created, you know, you know, implement the toys and vegetables and fruits and, you know, dressing up and, you know, sky’s the limit. I mean, the game I created from passion all the way up to like a full like orgy, if that’s what you, if that’s what you’re into, you don’t have to go there.

But if that’s what you’re into, it’s there, the cards are there, you get a taste of everything. So it comes with 400 cards, you know, their refill packs as well. That elaborate on so uncertain, right? Like if you want to avoid your pack, versus for insurance, you can buy a Voya pack just to watch and things like that. So, so after I created the aesthetics of the actual board itself, I said, you know what?

I want to keep it fundamental. So I said, what of my favorite childhood games? And I started thinking, I said, everyone’s done monopoly and that’s just playing out. And I kept thinking, and then I’m like, wait a minute. This is, I got it. Because originally the original name of the game was going to be slip and slide. And then I knew how cheesy that name was, but it was just something that I made a direct correlation to sex. So I say, and so I designed slip and slide. I thought about chutes and ladders. And I’m like, oh my God, that’s it.

And so I started developing around that because originally I said, I wanted to be like a checkerboard, simple squares. I don’t want it to look like a maze. I just wanted to go back and forth and you climb up and you get to the, to the hundredth space. So I knew I wanted a hundred spaces. And, and then when I thought about shoots and ladders, I said, this is perfect. Cause I ain’t going to make a woman, you know, gyrating and a male pulling on a chain around her neck, bringing it up. So when it’s being pulled, you go up and when she’s I rating, then you slide down.

So that gave you the ups and downs, right? So I said, okay, this is going to make it fun. Because at the end of the day, the objective of the game is to bridge the gap in communication, kill shock witness and the judgment, right? It’s not about who wins. Everyone’s a winner when they play the game. So the point, so it didn’t matter to get to the space 100. So going up and down, just made it more fun. And then I said, okay, but if they’re playing this game, then naturally more than likely having a drink.

Although I am not promoting alcohol at the end of the day, most likely you’ll have a drink. So I said, why don’t I make it spill proof? So I silicone based the actual board. So it smarts, it’s spill proof. And then I said, okay, I have to have a wide range of sexual options and everything I could think of. It took me literally five years to come up with the perfect cards about 18, maybe even more so edits.

Whereas every girlfriend that I had, I had as every male friend that I knew to help me edit these cards. And, and finally I got to the point where it was, what we thought was perfect. You know, we meaning me, myself and I, right. Cause I’ve done. I created this entire thing, all three of them. So all three of us. And so sorry. And so at that point I said, okay, I need to have the dirtiest dyes, not just dirty dyes. And I’ve gone into harmony shops and seen dice and I can’t stand them.

You know, squeeze bun, lick nipple. Like, no, that’s not starting the party that is really corny. And so I said, they have to be naughty, very naughty. So I created like these very naughty dyes. And then I said, okay, so we have the dice, we have the cards, we have the board. Then I said, okay, this is

Speaker 1 (27m 56s): What a naughty dice look like. I’m kind of curious

Speaker 2 (27m 60s): What a naughty dice look like. Okay. Well

Speaker 1 (28m 4s): This is an audio audio interview.

Speaker 2 (28m 6s): Right? Okay. Well, naughty dyes look like the position dice is for both play all players, right? And so you have a wild, which means you get to pick whatever position you have a right on top, you have a doggy style and you have a missionary. Then you have a 69 and you have a cowgirl. Yeah. This is the position dye. Right. It tells you those are a pretty common positions. Right?

Right. So you can only put six, it’s a six sided dice. So those are the ones I went with and then there’s his dice and there’s her dice. So when it’s a male stern, he rose the male dice with the position dice. When it’s the woman’s turn, she rose the, the female dies with the position dies. And this is how you determine what’s to be done. Now this happens when you land on a white square, whenever you land on a white square, it’s time to roll the 30th dice.

And so for instance, I’ll roll the dice right now as if I was a female. And it says missionary, and it says, fuck me with toy missionary. So this is what the male would do. And that’s what he would do. And that’s an idea of what the dice would say. So they’re pretty, you know, to the point, but they’re not kitty dice. You know, there’s a, there’s a suck, his cock. There’s a fuck. My pussy. There’s wild.

There’s fuck my, and it’s dot, dot.is eat my pussy. And there is, let me see, oh, fuck me with toy. So those are the options. And the male dyes are pretty much the same, but just the other way, fuck her with toy, you know, flip my car like that. And it keeps going. So it makes it for 30 days. Cause they don’t really have Diastat that have that straightforward to the point of doing a sexual, more, more kind of a teasing type of thing.

These are more of an action taking, right? And then when you say, for instance, if you roll the number of die, which is a 10 position number die, it’s a diamond shape. So w if you roll it and you land on a red square, you pick a red card. And if you land on a rose square or like a peach colored square, then you pick that color card and then you do the action that is written on there for you to take action with it.

And that’s pretty much the, just of the game. But in that sense, the game takes all the blame. So we trademark blame it on the game Because basically this way, you know, it takes you out of your comfort zone to request these things. But when you’re playing the game, you already agreed to play this game. So it’s whatever the game says to do, right. At that point, there’s no judgment. There’s no criticism. It’s out the window. Your queerness is out the window and it comes more enticing than anything.

Speaker 1 (31m 14s): So,

Speaker 2 (31m 14s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31m 15s): So why, why don’t you, oh, snow. Sorry to interrupt. Why did you create products for couples as opposed just to, for individuals?

Speaker 2 (31m 24s): That’s a good question. I mean, playing games is just so much more fun when you take in terms. Sure. So that, that’s exactly what struck my interest in going in the couple route, as opposed to individual route. And then this there’s so many beneficial factors in masturbation, but it’s so much more fun to watch your partner, the person you’re you’re you’re into either you love. So you’re in love with it to watch the masturbate. It’s really arousing.

And a lot of people don’t know that, you know, women are shamed sometimes like if a boyfriend or a new guy that she’s just fights or finds a toy on her or, or catches her masturbating, or if a guy gets caught masturbating, you know, either to porn or to like pictures of her, you know, it becomes awkward. Right. Of course. But with this game, it becomes a norm. It becomes actually an add on to your sexuality.

It, it just takes your sexuality to new Heights because now the shame is out the door. You know, it’s kind of that, like when w you know, how comedians, when they, they joke about themselves, so they no room for no one to really ridicule them, of course, first joking on themselves. It’s that kind of approach when you take all the stereotypes and all the, you know, just, you know, the standards, the norms out the window, then inhibitions just start fading away.

They just fizzle away. You become more open, more closer to your partner. And so, I mean, really that’s really what took me to finishing the game. And then I was approached by someone that was very interested in my concept. And they were like, Hey, why don’t we really do the same, make this high end, like you want, and let’s put it out. And I was like, oh, are you serious? And he was like, yeah, I’m like, let’s do it. So we did, we saw, we did.

Speaker 1 (33m 25s): So what’s your target audience for a triple X playground?

Speaker 2 (33m 29s): Oh, my target audience is, you know, I know that the legal age is 18. Right. You know, I, I just feel more comfortable at 21. So I say 21 to 55 plus. And I think that my niche is also a part of that answer would be both male and women, but not only heterosexual. Right. My game board comes with nine game pieces. One of them is a double John rhe gender rather than gender.

So it’s a male female piece. If you don’t want to claim either, I want everyone to feel comfortable. And then the refill packs are, you know, cater to bisexual bicurious or homosexual, or even people that are into like BDSM and things like that. So, you know, it’s, sky’s the limit. This is the one game that you buy. And it, it covers all the bases.

Speaker 1 (34m 30s): Hmm. Interesting. So what’s your plan of action for getting this brand to spread throughout the world?

Speaker 2 (34m 39s): Wow. So globally, right now, we’re domestic at the moment. And we just, we just actually partnered up with a huge, huge entity and a well reckoned individual in the adult facet, if you will. So it’s, RayJay I know you’ve heard of RayJay.

Speaker 1 (35m 3s): No, I have, I have not, but I’ll, I’ll take your word for it.

Speaker 2 (35m 6s): Ray, Jay, who started the Kim Kardashian video? He started it with her. Yeah. RayJay Brandy’s brother.

Speaker 1 (35m 15s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 15s): So he actually has a, a huge sexual that’s about to air on one of the networks. And so we got product placement with him and then yeah. And the, the game is actually going to be a focal point of the show and he’s also the face of the, of the product.

Speaker 1 (35m 38s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (35m 40s): So he has a huge network and that’s his realm, so that’s really good. Look for us. So that’s how we’re going to globalize. Also, he has a plan of action to globalize the brand within a two to three years span.

Speaker 1 (35m 53s): Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (35m 54s): Yeah. So that’s our plan of action right there.

Speaker 1 (35m 56s): That’s great. Where do you see your brand being in five years?

Speaker 2 (36m 0s): I see a C being one of the top three one-stop shops for all your sexual needs and accessories. Yeah. We have about 30 products on the assembly line, a one skew at a time obviously, cause that’s smart marketing. Right. And, and we have services coming that should pretty much cover the entire gamut we were in.

Speaker 1 (36m 27s): So you’re adding adult, you’re adding adult novel novelty as well.

Speaker 2 (36m 30s): Yeah. W what we’re adding, you know, adult toys. Yeah. And for sure as accessories to the games. Yes. Novelties. Yes. And also we’re adding a dating service and a tube site. Okay. You will see the game being played as a proprietary game being played on our proprietary site. So it’ll be sorta like, you know, like when you watch the cam girls, but this is a little different because it’ll be couples, there’ll be three, a couple in a unicorn or a couple in a bowl or two couples of three couples.

And it just makes for more of a show than just like watching a porn clip.

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): So you’re actually two, you’re actually going to host your own campsite. It’s not going to be a white label.

Speaker 2 (37m 14s): Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 18s): That’s quite an undertaking.

Speaker 2 (37m 20s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know this is what we’re working on. So it’s a, I mean, I know it’s going to work just because of the nature of, of where, where, you know, porn itself is going and where the tubes have taken porn, you know, the entire industry as a whole and, and also the dating side. So I just make sense, right. Since,

Speaker 1 (37m 42s): Right. So here’s, here’s a chance to give your elevator pitch. Why would, why would people buy your products as opposed to other people’s?

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): Well, you know what? Our games are, the only games on the market that have beneficial factors, they bridge the gap in communication, they killed the awkwardness is free of judgment and criticism. And it’s ongoing. It’s an ongoing experience. Every time you play the game, this is, this is why. Plus you get the most bang for your buck, literally and figuratively three games in one. So you got the dice game with different rules. You have the card game with different rules, and then you have the board game with the cards and dice,

Speaker 1 (38m 28s): Right?

Speaker 2 (38m 29s): You buy the game right now with developing the app. When the app comes out, you get six months service on the app for free and that’s point from the far end and the near, and you can play with another group or another couple elsewhere, and it’s completely private. So we’re working on the app. Now it’s on the development. So this is all you get for the price point, which is cheaper than one session at a couples therapist. And you got no solutions at a couples therapist with one session.

How much orientation, how much is the game? The game MSRP is at 1 69 99. And right now it’s on sale for 1 19 99.

Speaker 1 (39m 9s): Nice, nice. Yeah. And I’m assuming they can primarily get it on your website.

Speaker 2 (39m 15s): You can get, you can get it on my website, which is spelled out triple the letter, X playground.com. That’s triple X playground.com. You can also get on Amazon. You also can get it at Walmart. And we have it on Etsy and a couple of other places, but mainly, you know, the website and Amazon, Amazon’s kind of a go-to place for most people around the world, at least over here. So that’s what people feel comfortable putting their credit card information and shopping is Amazon.

You know, if it’s on Amazon, it’s legit.

Speaker 1 (39m 49s): We, we hope except for the knockoff products I bought that ended up being from Amazon.

Speaker 2 (39m 54s): What are,

Speaker 1 (39m 55s): We won’t go there or, or just bad products while you, since you gave your, your web address, what about your social media handles?

Speaker 2 (40m 7s): So my social media handle, my, my primary page on Instagram is triple underscore X underscore playground. And then all the other social medias is triple X playground spelled just like that. The word triple the letter X and the word playground, all social media. Twitter is triple X play G R N D. I have enough letters on there, but pretty much triple X playground. You can find this every way you to Pinterest tumbler, where everywhere we are everywhere,

Speaker 1 (40m 40s): Damn Twitter, they make everything difficult. Is this, is this gonna solely an e-commerce business? Are you planning on expanding to brick and mortar?

Speaker 2 (40m 49s): Well, actually right now is a solely an e-commerce building a business, but we already reaching out to brick and mortar companies that we see ourselves having a good joint venture with that we could do something really positive and make an impact. So we’re in talks, but we’re not in negotiations just yet, just because right now, the way we’re going to unveil this first, this campaign for the first quarter of the year, we, we want to keep it on, on e-commerce these for one to two quarters.

And then after that, we should be looking to place it in pretty much all the brick and mortars across America to start.

Speaker 1 (41m 36s): No. Now, since this will drop in may, when should we expect some things like the tube, the cam, the cam platform and things like that? Or what are your plans?

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): Yeah, so we are actually, we’re actually speaking to a, to only fans to do something immediate, just to get a whistle wet, if you will, at the same time, we’re developing the platform. So I can’t give you a concrete time, but I would say probably a year from now. So maybe six months from when this airs

Speaker 1 (42m 14s): Fabulous. Well, Hey, Jack, I’d really like to thank you for being our guests to Dan adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation. The potential buyers may want to find out about this should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images and number of videos.

How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years. If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports. Get all of the information organized in a legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process for contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market.

The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know such as are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts, et cetera? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Brittany Wilson of the dungeon store.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Jack Polo of Mach Media. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Mike Stabile of the Free Speech Coalition.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown ever since all of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages.

Google has placed the websites in good search positions. There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic because the owner would like a fast sale, he’s instructed us to slash the price from the previous $595,000 to only $165,000.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site broker talk is Mike’s to Beale of the free speech coalition. Mike, thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 43s): Thanks for having me

Speaker 1 (2m 44s): Great to have you here. Now, Mike is a journalist and documentary filmmaker. Who’s written about an advocated for sex workers and sexual speech for over a decade. His work has been published in a wide range of places, including the daily beast salon buzz feed Playboy in the New York times, seed money, his documentary on pornographer and philanthropist. That’s a hard word in the morning. Chuck Holmes was named one of the best documentaries of 2015 by the advocate to Beal founded Polari media to help non-traditional communities and businesses better communicate with a mainstream audience.

He’s handled communications for the free speech coalition since 2013, by the way, you’re doing one heck of a job. The, a free speech coalition’s mission is to protect the rights and freedoms of both the workers and businesses in the adult industry or organization functions as a resource, a leader, and a tool for the communities that they serve. They take pride in fighting to alleviate the social stigma, misinformation and discriminatory policies that affect those who work in and adjacent to the adult industry.

For more than 25 years, they’ve been fighting and winning impossible battles from the Supreme court to the ballot box. And back again, our industry is almost constantly facing scrutiny and attacks, but we’ve seen firsthand when we come together and fight we win. So how was that for a commercial for the FSC?

Speaker 2 (4m 13s): That was great. Thanks for the kind words as well.

Speaker 1 (4m 17s): Hey, you know, I, I love what you guys do and I believe very much in your mission. So how did the FSC first get started?

Speaker 2 (4m 27s): So it’s funny because the FSC got started in environment, not so dissimilar from the one that we face today. It was in the early nineties, the department of justice, the FBI in conjunction with local vice squads were rating adult businesses. So, you know, if you remember back in the mid eighties, there had been the Meese commission report and the Reagan administration had gone after adult businesses quite aggressively, you know, in terms of sort of launching a culture war, wanting to take down the growing at that point VHS business.

And they instituted after the report came out a policy of going after pretty much every big adult business that they could think of, you know, that they can reasonably bring in. I think that, you know, in the early nineties they took down, what they would do is they would go after an adult business. They wouldn’t often be able to get a conviction, right? So sometimes they would go after, you know, say somebody was making films, you know, obscenity prosecutions are really, really hard.

And so they, you know, they wouldn’t necessarily have success, but when the federal government is coming after you it’s tremendously expensive. Right. And so what they would do is they would make it more expensive. They would, you know, they would, the FBI would order videotapes to Utah. They’d ordered videotapes to Alabama, they’d order it to North Carolina. And then a distributor would send those video tapes out and they would suddenly launch multiple prosecutions in multiple states, you know, try to fight the federal government in, in a court of law.

And you’re going to quickly go out of business. You’re just not going to have the resources.

Speaker 1 (6m 20s): They don’t have to pay there. They don’t have to pay their lawyers.

Speaker 2 (6m 24s): No, absolutely not. And they’ve got a ton of them. So what we saw was a lot of businesses were starting to just fold and settle and the free speech coalition started originally as a legal defense fund so that people could fight back, you know, so that if they struck one business that other businesses were, you know, sort of mutual aid society coming to their defense, it meant that they could share resources in terms of lawyers, right. That we could understand how to beat these charges back.

So that was how it originally began as a defense fund, as the, you know, as that the culture shifted, it became a trade organization and it started focusing on, you know, not just individual legal battles against individual companies, but against discrimination. Industry-wide against laws that, you know, were discriminated against adult businesses. Like the 2257 regulations or things like in, in California to one of our early victories was against a syntax, which would have led at 25% tax on adult content.

So it, you know, I think that we really grew as an organization in response to the challenges that were put forward to us later. Obviously we would deal with, you know, launching a testing system to test adult performers, to fight HIV aids. We, again dealt with raids in the early two thousands with the Bush administration over 2257 records. We recently, you know, we even went to the Supreme court at one point and, and won an important victory over what we would terms were barely legal.

There had been a law passed in Congress during, in an omnibus bill saying that if a actor looked under age that it was child pornography. And so, so we had, we had to fight a lot of things in order to protect our industry. And, you know, today, as I mentioned, we’re, we’re in the middle of a culture war again, and we’re seeing a lot of legislation attacking our industry. So we’re, you know, feeling that, you know, despite the challenges that were as vital today as we were 30 years ago,

Speaker 1 (8m 51s): I agree now it’s funny, you mentioned the Reagan administration and the, and the Meese commission, you know, the more I read and then I think back, and I’m in the middle of Andrew gang’s newest book now. And I don’t remember the, the issue that he was talking about with Reagan on this one. I’m oh, I do. Actually, it was, I think it had to do with three, three districting. If I’m not mistaken, you wonder what the country would be like if there was no Ronald Reagan, you know, you wonder what the country would look like today.

If Ronald Reagan had never been president hell, I was living in California when he was governor and he was a terrible governor. And then he ran for president. It’s like, by then I was voting. I’m like, I’m not going to vote for this guy. He was an awful governor and he’s going to be president anyway, I digress. So how has its the FSCS mission evolved over the years?

Speaker 2 (9m 52s): Well, I think that, you know, we’ve evolved as the industry has evolved. So I think that as, you know, as we moved, like I said, from the original fight over individual obscenity prosecutions to really trying to bring the industry into a more reputable place, right. Establishing standards, trying to coordinate across, across different companies, you know, looking and establishing mutual defense so that we sort of understood what the issues were.

And I think that that’s something that, again, we still see today, if you look at their cases being brought against porn hub, this case is being brought against only fans, as you know, in multiple districts and multiple, multiple states. And what we see is that those companies don’t always talk to each other, right? Twitter is being sued under the same law that PornHub is being sued on. And you know, I think that the role for FSC today really is to try to be a central hub for communication.

You know, we’ve, we’ve certainly also moved more aggressively in terms of the rights of workers. It was something that was certainly there at the beginning. Once we became a trade association, we had people who really wanted to, to talk about how to protect people who were working on set and what their rights would look like. But as the industry has changed, as performers have become more independent, right? They don’t need studios, they don’t need agents necessarily. They can run their own businesses through platforms like only fans and fan Centro and just for fans and, and the, you know, the 30 or so platforms that have exploded the past year.

I mean, there’s a platform if for every company at this point, I don’t know one company that I work with or anybody else works with that, isn’t either, you know, running a fan platform or designing one. So, you know, that is a shift in our mission as well, right? We need to make sure that there are resources for all of these new business owners that they know how to store model records, that they know, you know, how to do their accounting, that they know what legal recourse they have, that they know what the standards are.

If you’ve never been in the industry before, and you’ve never shot anything, but suddenly you have a $10,000 a month only fans account. You may not know about consent checklist. You may not know how to be an ethical creator. You may not. It may not be that you don’t want to be. It may not be that you’re, you’re negligent. It may just be that you’re not educated. And I think that that’s one of the roles that we see for free speech coalition going forward is really helping people who are coming into this industry. No matter whether they’re in, you know, Australia or Bangkok or London or Los Angeles that we’re there to help them.

Speaker 1 (12m 49s): Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s interesting, you mentioned record-keeping and I think a lot of people have the misguided thought that because 2, 2, 5, 7 is now largely a moot point that they don’t need to keep records.

Speaker 2 (13m 7s): Yeah. I think that that was something that, that people did think, you know, free speech coalition fought our, we just ended our 2057 battle, right. It started in, you know, it started 12 or 13 years ago, again with a series of raids where the FBI was going into adult businesses and demanding to see their records. And if they missed, if a person missed, filed something, if it was filed under S rather than T or they, they had them in the wrong order, that was a felony under 22, 57, 22 57 was designed to be a trip wire to arrest people when they couldn’t get them on obscenity charges.

And so we, you know, we fought those regulations. We, we, we battled it for 13 years and eventually defanged them. But what you see, you know, almost at the same time is MasterCard stepping in to issue its own regulations. So

Speaker 1 (14m 5s): I

Speaker 2 (14m 5s): Think you’re right. A lot. Yes, exactly. So you see a lot of people who aren’t familiar with 2257 regulations, or don’t think that they have to keep them suddenly getting caught and saying, oh, wait, I do have to do model releases. I do have to, it’s not just enough that I verify or that I, you know, that know that somebody is 18 or that they consent to be in it because they’ve been sent it to you to be in it. I have to document that. And you know, again, that’s where FSC comes in, both in terms of, you know, trying to run interference with MasterCard, to let them know what our issues are and, and, and how to design better regulations, but also to educate the community as to what you have to do and what the dangers are, if you don’t do that.

Speaker 1 (14m 49s): So how did you get involved FSC?

Speaker 2 (14m 53s): I got involved. I’ll do you one better? I got involved in the adult industry in the early two thousands. I’ve been working in magazines in New York. I moved back at that point to San Francisco and was,

Speaker 1 (15m 9s): I didn’t even, I didn’t even, I didn’t even know you lived in the city. So my hometown,

Speaker 2 (15m 14s): I love it. I exactly, I think of it as my hometown as well, even though I didn’t grow up there, it’s really sort of my, you know, where I, I feel, yeah, it’s such an emotional connection. And so I had, I’d been living in San Francisco. I moved to New York. I moved back to San Francisco because once you leave California, it’s, it’s, it can be hard to stay away. And you, it was sort of looking for work.

I was sort of bouncing around and I had a friend who was doing some freelance work for some gay adult company, sort of handling their press releases and things like that. And he couldn’t do it anymore. And he said, oh, do you want some, some work? You don’t want some sort of freelance work. And I said, sure. So I picked it up and almost immediately it felt a kinship. You know, I had it, it felt like my community. It felt like it was fun.

You know, I think that I, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a family, it’s the industry. And it’s, it’s, you know, people don’t take themselves too seriously. So I sort of thought of it maybe as like a temporary stop and, you know, started sort of developing products and started sort of eventually pitching articles and, and writing a little bit more about the industry I left in 2009, because I had sort of stumbled across a story that I thought was best told through documentary.

It was about this gay porn, pioneer Chuck Holmes, who founded Falcon studios and had had this sort of tortured relationship with the democratic party. He was a big funder, but you know, the type of person who, you know, he could throw a party, he could have dinner with Gorbachev, but when it came to, you know, being invited to someplace, he’d be asked to use the back door essentially, right? Like you want a pornographer there though. They were happy to take his money.

And so to me, it was this sort of tragic story of, you know, I mean, it was, it was Gatsby ask in terms of like, you, you, you have these yachts, you have these private jets, you have these, you know, homes in multiple places and all of this luxury and really what you want is respect. And that’s a story that so many pornographers and people in the sex industry have, which is, you know,

Speaker 1 (17m 47s): And gay people.

Speaker 2 (17m 49s): Absolutely. I think that, that is that’s, that’s absolutely it. And so, you know, I, I sort of wanted to tell this story. And so I, I, I had been working at a company called naked sword,

Speaker 1 (18m 1s): Ah,

Speaker 2 (18m 2s): Running a website,

Speaker 1 (18m 3s): Our friend, our friend, Tim,

Speaker 2 (18m 5s): Our friend, Tim Valenti. Yes. So I had launched a, you know, a sort of gay news site called the sword and was sort of running that and decided I sort of wanted to leave and, and work on

Speaker 1 (18m 16s): That. I didn’t know you started that. That’s cool.

Speaker 2 (18m 18s): Yeah. Yeah. And so I took off, I moved to Argentina with a bunch of film. I shot some early interviews and was just trying to play around with, with what it would, you know, what I could do with it. And, you know, and I, eventually I came back to the states cause it just became harder to, I had to shoot more interviews and going back and forth wasn’t financially feasible, you know, and I missed having 18 different types of toothpastes in the checkout aisle.

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Tell me about it,

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): The ex-pat lament. So I, you know, I did that and, you know, again was sort of doing freelance writing was, was trying to figure out what it was. I went and covered the <inaudible> obscenity trial in, in, in LA and, and, you know, had always had, had a relationship with FSC, but not, not a real direct one. You know, I worked on various things when they could sort through them.

And so I, but I was looking for money for my documentary. And so I was hitting everybody up and I went in one day to kink.com. You know, I was in San Francisco and, you know, I loosely knew Peter and I was going into sort of pitch him on this. Well, you know, if you know any, so they never liked to give money away. Right.

Speaker 1 (19m 46s): But

Speaker 2 (19m 48s): At that time just happened as I happened to be in there, he got a call from the Huffington post, you know, about a potential scandal at the company. And, you know, something was bring, somebody was, was talking. And he said, you know, I don’t really know how to answer these things. They said, well, listen, you know, you know, he had hung up at that point, or I don’t know if he even taken the call, but I said, you don’t tell me what the story is. And he told me this story and I was like, well, that’s entirely reasonable. There’s no reason that, you know, you should be able, you should be hiding from this.

This is it. You just need to talk frankly, about what this is. And so he said, you know, could you give them a call? And I said, sure. So I gave him

Speaker 1 (20m 30s): A call. That’s how you became his PR guy.

Speaker 2 (20m 33s): And that’s how I became his PR guy. The story killed.

Speaker 1 (20m 37s): I still want them on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (20m 44s): That’s good. Yeah. I will. I’ll remind him he’s knee deep and things right now. But hopefully in the new year, he’ll start servicing and sort of be more available for media. So he, from then on, I, they said, oh, we could use some help around here. So I needed money. And I said, I’ve got a sort of fund to stock and I’ll do it. And that happened to be, and I, a time when there was just a lot going on at cake, you know, it was really in the crosshairs, they were getting ready to, they had worked on a documentary that James Frank Franco had produced.

It was coming out at Sundance. There were, you know, a number of issues that were happening in the, the larger adult industry regarding testing and safety. And, you know, while working with kinky, he’s sort of contacted the FSC and said, Hey, listen, you know, I think that you should work with Mike. I think that would help with some of the issues that you’re having. And so I started working with FSC and, you know, from there, our relationship really blossomed, but I really felt strongly about free speech coalition about sexual speech, about the rights of sexual minorities, about the rights of workers and was adept at communicating that with, with the mainstream media.

And that was something that coming from a journalistic background felt, you know, like I’m, I’m in my zone here and, and, you know, I’ve been there ever since, you know, we, we, we worked on multiple campaigns. We, we sort of bought, fought back prop 60 in California and I couldn’t be happier.

Speaker 1 (22m 21s): Awesome. So what are the greatest threats facing the industry today?

Speaker 2 (22m 26s): I mean, I think that, you know, the, the greatest, I mean the same threats that face the industry, the, the, the threats that face the, the entire world at this point, which is sort of misinformation and, you know, and moral panics, you know, I think that we are looking at a, you know, a culture war that we haven’t seen in 20 years, and maybe haven’t seen in, in 30 years, I think that, you know, the, the closest approximation that we have right now to the sort of multi-pronged bite, you know, and that is, we have legislative battles on, on section two 30 going on in the house and Senate, we have age verification regime is being instituted in the UK and Australia and Germany.

We have the evangelical and faith based groups, like the cozy and Exodus cry, pressuring the banks to de platform for things like porn hub and only fans. Yeah. I mean, it is, it’s, I’ve never seen it, this aggressive. I think that I, I, I often think that last year, you know, last year being 2020, right.

Speaker 1 (23m 45s): I should, I should point out we’re doing this in December of 2021. So this will run in the spring of 2022. Okay.

Speaker 2 (23m 53s): Okay. So in, you know, in early 2020, I started watching, you know, a monitor, you know, hundreds of, of publications a day. So I’m, I’m, I’m going through in the morning, I’ll get through all of these things, you know, mostly you’re sort of scanning headlines and things like that, but I’ve pretty aggressive monitoring service that will click in and say, I’ve got to read this. And so I would see this stuff bubbling up about trafficking hub and, and, you know, these, these claims being made about putting up, and I thought, God, this is just so witty, Arctic, right?

Like this is so misguided. It’s not, it’s not based. In fact, it’s not based in any statistics, it’s just sort of these evangelical groups running a censorship campaign, right. That we’ve seen

Speaker 1 (24m 35s): This.

Speaker 2 (24m 36s): Exactly. And I didn’t really take it seriously. And, and in retrospect, you know, there, it was a mistake, but I don’t think anybody took it serious. I think that we all just thought it was a bunch of chokers, you know, cut to a year ago this week and Nick Christoff and the New York times publishes

Speaker 1 (24m 54s): I canceled. I canceled my subscription, by the way, after that second article, just to let you know, I sent the New York times a message, like they care. I sent the New York times a message telling them why I canceled my subscription.

Speaker 2 (25m 6s): Good for you. Good for you. I mean,

Speaker 1 (25m 9s): Fight, fight back. You know, the only thing you got as a tool is your money, you know, you vote with your money. So,

Speaker 2 (25m 15s): Yeah, absolutely. And they, you know, they put out that, that article where he had sort of platform to cozy and Exodus cry did not identify them.

Speaker 1 (25m 26s): PornHub,

Speaker 2 (25m 27s): PornHub Laila, Micklethwait the sexual trafficking activist and the legal analyst. It, it just, it was, it was, it was so consciously done to sort of strip them of the faith-based roots and to present this story as if this was an activist story, as opposed to sort of censorship. And of course, Dick Kristoff has a long history, a long tortured history of, you know, completing sex work and sex trafficking of savior syndrome and everything else, and, and of wanting to sort of shut down

Speaker 1 (26m 3s): Risa grand standard. Was

Speaker 2 (26m 4s): That exactly? God bless Oregon where he’s running for governor.

Speaker 1 (26m 10s): Yeah. I heard about, I wish I could vote against him in Oregon. Oh, well I know people there.

Speaker 2 (26m 16s): Yeah. This is an act of sex worker community. So I’m hoping that, that, that they, they take care of him. So, you know, yeah. So I mean, this, you did take it seriously. This sort of gets whitewashed. And then all of a sudden you see visa and MasterCard withdrawing support from PornHub and you see everybody else working out. And I think that one of the things that, you know, we realized this year and, you know, it is, is just how tenuous our relationship is with the financial services sector and how brutal it is to lose it.

If you lose visa or MasterCard, you lose your business. And it’s something that’s always been an issue. I remember, you know, even going back when I was working on the documentary about Chuck Holmes, he couldn’t get a loan from the bank, right loan for his business. You couldn’t get bank accounts. And this is back in the eighties today, obviously sex workers face that same level of discrimination. They get kicked off of PayPal. They get their funds seized on Venmo. FSC tried to open a business, a second bank account this year and was told by our bank that we won’t take it.

You’re an adult business. And we said, but we’ve already got an account with you. And they said, well, I’d be quiet about it if I were you, you know, it’s just, it’s, it’s just that level of, of discrimination that we face. I think that this year brought it into sharper relief. And, and we’re not the only ones that, that knew that. I mean, I think that one of the things that I’ve realized as I’ve gone back over the past year and, and as FSC and our legislative committee and our various partner organizations that we work with, you know, have discovered is that, you know, groups like Nikolay the national center on sexual exploitation, formerly morality and media.

No, is that banks are a weak point and they’re exploiting that. And so, you know, I was looking back and, and the president of the cozy until I think a month ago was a guy named Patrick Truman and Patrick Truman, you know, as I sort of dug back was the head of the task force, the obscenity task force, and the department of justice in the late eighties, early nineties went after adult businesses, right?

He’s he doesn’t believe it’s Christian. He doesn’t believe that we have a right to do it. He believes that it’s all exploitation. He doesn’t believe that adult content is protected by the first amendment. And in realizing that I, you know, also realized that the strategies that they have right now is the same strategy that they had in the eighties and nineties. So in the eighties and the nineties, what it was, was multiple prosecutions in and sort of denying you access to funds. So they would seize your bank accounts.

They would come at you from a bunch of different angles and knew that it would take a lot of energy and resources for you to defend yourself against it. That’s the same strategy they’re taking today. They’re using different mechanisms, but they’re going after your banks, right? Exactly. They’re filing multiple lawsuits. There’s multiple losses that Nicole has sponsored against PornHub right there. They’re trying this strategy to really drain the business and essentially make them, you know, give up, say, it’s too much work.

We’re going to go into something else. And so, you know, it, once you understand their strategy, it’s a little bit better because at least you understand how to react to them. You know, I, I wish I had made the connection a little bit earlier and that the industry had been a little bit more on high alert. I tend to be a little bit of a chicken little as it is. So not everybody lists, but you know, in this case, I, I wish I yell a little bit louder,

Speaker 1 (30m 7s): Always. So why do you think we’re seeing such a backlash against adult content around the world?

Speaker 2 (30m 14s): I think that we’re seeing a backlash because we’ve been so successful. If you think back to the eighties or nineties, or even the early two thousands, when there was a battle over, you know, a pornography, you know, as, you know, becoming sort of more mainstream, right. This idea that like, oh, it’s, it’s becoming more prevalent people. See it, what does this mean? We should restrict access to it. We should, you know, we should bring them up on, I’m sending charges, we stroll up this stuff, you know, we’ve won that battle.

You know, there isn’t a, there we don’t see obscenity prosecutions happening anymore. Even under the Trump administration, we didn’t see any, you know, 2257 has been

Speaker 1 (30m 58s): Too busy getting in their own way.

Speaker 2 (31m 1s): Yeah, exactly. You know, PornHub is, you know, PornHub was a household word, right? People talk about porn, women talk about porn. You know, we talk about ethical point. We talk about anal, you know, on the news. And so I think that the, the conservative Christians were really at a loss in, in terms of, you know, having lost this culture war. And so I think that this is a deeply reactionary movement, you know, in an attempt to say like, oh my God, I can’t believe that it’s gotten this bad.

And I think that it’s also, it’s not just related to porn. I think that this is a reactionary movement in terms of the progress of the gay and lesbian community and the trans community. I think that these were all things that over the past, you know, five years really had people, you know, especially in conservative, socially conservative circles, wondering like what’s going on with our world, right. We’re losing, or, you know, our, our primacy, we’re losing our power. And this is an articulation of it.

I think that on a more specific level as I went back and sort of traced the trafficking hub movement and, and trace the sort of anti the rise of Vandyke porn, what I’ve seen is that it, it ties in almost exactly what the pandemic. And I think that there was trauma. If I, you know, this is just sort of loose speculation, you know, but what you see is is that when the pandemic happens, you see a tremendous number of news stories about how people are logging on and watching porn public health department saying, oh, you should watch porn.

You should, you should, you know, it’s better than going out and having sex. This is a natural way to release tension and all the rest of it,

Speaker 1 (32m 46s): Nobody ever caught COVID from their computer.

Speaker 2 (32m 49s): Exactly. And at the same time, everybody is home alone or it’s home with their family right there. And so there’s this feeling of, you know, a greater attention to what is my kid doing in the bedroom? You know what it’s like my college student son doing with the door closed, what’s my husband doing so long in the bathroom. What’s my wife doing, you know, while I’m not there, you know, or while I’m cooking dinner or whatever it is. I think that, I think there was this sort of this magic brew of, you know, all of this is going on and then a general cultural anxiety around sex and sexuality in the household.

And I think that, that it, it helped it sort of gain traction where it hadn’t before. You know, I think that it, I think that, you know, when you look at how it all plays out, it, it, it matches so closely that I think that there has to be something that, because people are always trying to, so this is not the newest argument that we’ve had, right? Like there has always been, there have been conservative Christians who have been advocating against pornography for years, but I do think that, that there was something about the pandemic that really gave it a little power and allowed it sort of to, you know, not to use it too much of an on the nose COVID metaphor, but, you know, escape, its old host and sort of go into a new population, but here we are,

Speaker 1 (34m 8s): And they had too much time on their hands. I think. So what’s the,

Speaker 2 (34m 14s): Sorry. I should also, somebody know, I, someone also mentioned that one of the things that happened during the pandemic with the, the relief bills is that the cap got lifted on donate on charitable donations. And for people who were making, you know, donated more than 50% of their AGI, what we saw during the pandemic was the donations to these organizations skyrocketed, you know, this is a cash cow. The COSI was really wandering in the wilderness for years, right there.

Their big victory in you in the past five or 10 years was getting Cosmo removed from the Walmart checkout line. You know, they were not a relevant organization, but once they sort of moved into this sort of, this idea of anti-trafficking of child porn, they really hit it. And by, you know, I think their revenue in the, between want to say like 2018 and 2020 tripled, you know, they’re just making so much more money than they were before. And that puts them in a better position to do these types of things.

Speaker 1 (35m 16s): Yeah, that’s very true. So what is the FSC doing to fight back?

Speaker 2 (35m 22s): So, you know, we’re, I mean, what aren’t we doing at this point? It is a long day, every day. You know, we are a small staff and we have a lot of volunteers including often me, you know, we immediately in, in, you know, in late 2020, I immediately got on the phone with PornHub, tried to understand what was going on and on their side of how we could support it. In June, by January, we had launched a legislative committee to deal with the spate of new bills that were coming in against section two 30 began sort of monitoring these groups a lot more and meeting weekly to sort of talk about what had gone on comparing notes with performers and in terms of what they’re seeing, talking with studios as to what they’re seeing and just improving the lines of communication.

One thing that happened in COVID is that we all got siloed, right? We didn’t have as many places where we were communicating at the same time. It also enabled things like zoom. So once we got our sea legs, we’ve been much more aggressive. I was on the phone, this on a zoom call this morning with, with sex worker activists in Australia, you know, understanding what’s going on with their online safety act and how that, you know, how that ties in to the legislation that’s being introduced in the UK and to the, the evangelical movement in the U S so we’re starting to draw all of these connections.

I think that, you know, we are, we’ve hired federal lobbyists for the first time in over a decade And, and responded to, you know, when, when representative and Wagner Missouri sent a letter to, she sent two letters actually to the department of justice, or what, what did the department does justice and one defense in calling for an investigation into only fans. We responded, we, we send a letter to Merrick Garland last month, you know, outlining just how wrong this is.

We also send it to a hundred members of Congress who had signed onto her letter and said, we needed to come in and talk with you because this is bullshit. You know, this isn’t true, this isn’t representative of the industry and this isn’t accurate. So we’re, we’re fighting back on just about every level. We, we, you know, we had meetings with MasterCard in June, you know, we, we have been talking with banking, you know, with payment processors and things like that. And also trying to just get the adult industry to understand that this isn’t about one or two companies.

I think that one thing that you saw when PornHub first went down, or I shouldn’t say went down, but when it was, you know, when it was attack, was that, you know, there were a number of people who didn’t feel so nice kindly about porn hub. And so they thought, well, this big competitor’s gone. What do I care? And I think that we also saw that a bit with, with only fans, right. There were a lot of people that said that for them,

Speaker 1 (38m 16s): A lot of jealous, a lot of jealousy when, when people are on the top, I think.

Speaker 2 (38m 19s): Yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, I don’t, I don’t want to take away from what people feel, right. These, these are companies that really dominate the space. So you’re,

Speaker 1 (38m 30s): And there’s long Cylance faces. There’s longstanding resentment towards big tube sites.

Speaker 2 (38m 37s): And for

Speaker 1 (38m 37s): Sure, and there’s a lot of people who still bitch about it instead of choose to work with them, those that are still in business.

Speaker 2 (38m 45s): Yeah. And I, I understand that entirely. And what we’ve been trying to say is that this is beyond that, like this isn’t, you know, the, the inner family battles have to stop. You know, what we have to understand is

Speaker 1 (38m 57s): There are no

Speaker 2 (38m 58s): What they do about PornHub. Isn’t going to just affect porn hub. It’s going to affect you. And I think that we’re making that we’re making that case. I think people are finally realizing it. The other thing that we do is that we talk to the media constantly. So we are on the horn calling up the Washington post yelling at the New York times. You know,

Speaker 1 (39m 20s): The way you put those two,

Speaker 2 (39m 23s): You know, I mean, it is, and I want to be in as many places as possible, even if they’re hostile, because they think that, you know, you might read an article that’s overwhelmingly hostile, but if there’s no country opinion in there, there’s no chance that you’re going to change your mind. So I think that if, if, if at least we can get a quote in where we’re disputing something, even if it’s in, you know, the daily caller or, you know, the BBC, which has become so incredibly hostile to sex work in porn, that it’s, it’s almost unrecognizable.

I want to be there. I want to be there making a contrary opinion in the same way that, you know, I think that I did as sort of a young gay activists, which was to say, listen, I’m happy, whatever lies, your, whatever lies you’re telling about my community. I want to stand in opposition and say, that’s not how I feel. I’m not mad. I’m not depressed. I’m not degraded. I’m happy and, and proud of who I am. That’s how I feel about the adult industry today is that I want to be there and say, as a Testament, to what they’re saying, isn’t true.

Here’s somebody who is reasonable, who could talk about these things, who can understand what the challenges are, you know, that we face online in regards to things like revenge porn and CSM, and that we take them seriously that this isn’t a playground, you know, a wild west.

Speaker 1 (40m 42s): Yeah, no, I agree with you. Maybe, maybe you guys need to have a campaign, a, an adult industry, pride campaign. I think that’s something that I’m serious. I think that’s something, that’s something we all need to be more proud of.

Speaker 2 (40m 57s): Absolutely. And I think that it’s, you know, as I just launched, you know, we’re launching a fundraising team and working with creators and, and on, on sort of new ideas as to how we can do it or how we can sort of bring in more money. But when you thought about, you know, what is my dream goal with this industry and with this organization, you know, what would we be doing? And obviously it would be, I want to be at every hearing, right? I want to be talking to parliament. I want where I want someone from the industry talking to parliament. I want, I want white papers.

I want, you know, analysis. I want to be able to fight back with data and with facts though, I understand that facts and data are increasingly irrelevant in this world. But you know, the other thing that we we look at is that we want to be involved in a media campaign, right? You want to be able to do what porn hub used to do with, you know, with their billboards and time squares and get so much press, but why can’t we do that for issues that are that matter to us?

You know, the issues of sex we can and with enough money we can

Speaker 1 (42m 5s): That’s right. It all comes, it all comes down to money. It always does. What can individuals in the industry do to get involved in the fight?

Speaker 2 (42m 14s): Well, I think that the first thing is, is that to take it seriously and follow it, right? This is understand that this affects you when your livelihood, that if, if, if these companies go down, especially if you’re a creator, you’re going down, right? Your, your income is going to drop. If you’re banking, discrimination gets worse, your issue is going to get worse. So I want people involved in that. Obviously I want them to donate to FSC, or at least become FSC members, even for five or $10 a month. That becomes something that is, that sustains us and allows us to do this work.

But I also just want people to get involved. You know, I mean, I interact with so many people on Twitter and have met so many people from so many different areas of the fight, you know, full service, sex workers, free speech, activists, technologists, you know, and you really want people who you don’t want to. We had a research team meeting for the first time for a new research team meeting. We expanded it and put out a call for people that were interested in sort of doing research. And it was so wonderful to see people from all over the industry say, Hey, listen, I want to take a look at scientific studies.

Somebody else saying, I want to look at, you know, I want to look at this. Group’s tweets, someone else saying, you know, I want to write a, you know, an op-ed, these are the things that we need, people we just don’t have. We’re never going to have enough people to do it all ourselves, you know, from FSC, we’re only gonna succeed in this if we have the entire community involved.

Speaker 1 (43m 38s): So Mike, talk about Polari media. Give us a little bit about what you do there.

Speaker 2 (43m 45s): Well, you know, Polari media was a affirm. I founded, you know, when I was working on my documentary and starting to work with adult companies and, and others are a marginalized groups, so sex educators, LGBTQ groups, and artists, and, and things like that, to help them access the mainstream media to get their message out. And glory is a term that comes from sort of late 19th century, British slang, that that was used by sex workers and dock workers and the queer community to communicate in the community amongst themselves to avoid law enforcement.

So a lot of the words that we we think of today is very common. Like dragon camp were early Polari words. And so I, I thought of that as I’d always sort of been fascinated as a linguistic history and it seemed to fit sort of what, you know, I was doing, which was trying to find ways for these groups that have been marginalized to, you know, better communicate. And so I, I founded this business and it’s always been something where I never really had to go after clients often, you know, I I’m, I’m a bad business person.

And so have always been, you know, almost trying to lose clients so that I could have more time to do the work that I want to do. But, you know, it’s, there’s always a tremendous need in this industry. There’s always people, you know, whether it’s people who want to reach the mainstream media for, you know, to get their brand out or something like that, or whether it’s somebody who is, you know, getting attacked in the mainstream media and needs to understand how to fight back, have done a ton of it, which is how I started.

It’s still sort of where I, you know, what I love to do. I love, I love to be in a fight in that way, and I love to be able to come to somebody’s defense. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45m 56s): Sorry, I’m going to see

Speaker 2 (45m 58s): MSA. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (46m 1s): What are you most proud of with your participation in the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (46m 5s): You know, I mean, I think that in terms of pride, you know, I really think that our battle over prop 60 in, in 2015 was pivotal. This was a mandatory condom legislation. It was a ballot measure that would, would have forced performers to use condoms, or they would have faced, you know, potential civil lawsuits from consumers. So the way that the, you know, the, the way the law had been structured was that if, you know, they were mad that nobody was using condoms, right.

They were such

Speaker 1 (46m 41s): A California thing.

Speaker 2 (46m 44s): Exactly. Right. And so, you know, they, they didn’t care about the testing system. They didn’t care about this and, and largely Cal OSHA and the regulators didn’t care about it. Right. Didn’t they, I mean, in terms of the, they weren’t concerned with the adult industry, cause the adult industry has done a really great job of self-regulating, but there are always going to be moralists who are concerned, what message is this sending to our kids. Right. That was essentially where it came from. And what, you know, if you put something on the ballot that says shouldn’t sex workers or shouldn’t porn stars use condoms.

Well, you know, everyday people are gonna say, oh yeah, I think that makes a good, that’s a good point. They should do that. You know, that would be helpful. It was pitched as a, you know, a worker protection measure except that in this case, the workers hated it. You know, they said, you know, we, we get tested every 14 days when I shoot with a condom, it’s much more difficult. You know, I, I can’t shoot as much. It’s harder on my body. Condoms aren’t meant for these sets where we’re shooting for three hours, you don’t know what you’re talking about and to deal with the recalcitrant report was right.

They, I think they thought they were going to come in as liberator’s. I think they had this idea age F, which was the organization aids, healthcare foundation thought they were going to come in, oh, one stars. We’re going to embrace them because they had just been, you know, subjected to, you know, oppression by these studios. They didn’t find that. And so the way that they, they design the legislation was that they allowed citizens to Sue much in the way that we see right now in Texas with the abortion law. Right. They, they, what the government couldn’t do, they were going to empower citizens to do, they’re going to power them, bring civil lawsuits.

So a, you know, if you saw a film without a condom in it, you could Sue the producer. The problem was is that in many of these cases, you know, in almost all cases, performance, we’re also creating their own content. So this left away for fans and stalkers and anybody to harass them, right. To bring them into court, to have, to be able to see them. And so we, this was something that when the bill was first introduced, when the ballot measure was first introduced, we, it was 75% support in the, the, in the state of California.

You go in, in early polling, we barnstormed the state. And we did, we talked to every editorial board. We, we got the Democrats on our side, we got the Republicans on our side, we got the libertarians on our side. We got the ACLU on our side, we got the chamber of commerce. And, you know, we got everybody that could possibly get hunter sites. And, you know, with the course of four or five months, we turned that into a victory for us. You know, we were able to feed it back and it was tremendous. So I’m tremendously proud of that.

I’m also just tremendously proud right now to be what I’m doing in terms of fighting back. This anti-porn movement. It’s something that I have, you know, I found distasteful when I was coming of age and, you know, in, in the early nineties. And it’s, it’s something that I’m glad to be in this fight today. This is a historic moment. And you know, it’s as difficult as it is and challenging. And as much as I wish it weren’t here, you know, I’m relishing the chance to sort of beat them back.

Speaker 1 (49m 56s): You know, it’s funny, you mentioned, you know, to keep their kids safe and give their, give their kids the, the right idea, their kids shouldn’t be watching porn.

Speaker 2 (50m 6s): No, no. And, and that’s the thing that’s so paradoxical about this, this whole process is that the most effective way to stop your kids from watching porn or stop your kids from accessing porn is to be involved in their devices and be involved in their life. Right. You know, you can block porn on porn hub, right? You can, you can take down all the porn hub. You could make mandatory age verifications. Kids are going to get a VPN. They’re going to go to a different country. They’re going to have a file sharing site.

They’re going to go all these things. There’s

Speaker 1 (50m 39s): Much,

Speaker 2 (50m 40s): There’s some order, and you can be much more effective with the filters on your devices, right? With, at, at the, like That are going, because all adult sites register with those, those devices. So if you turn on a filter and you put in password protected, you know, it’s not going to be able to access porn hub. It’s not going to be able to access, you know, X videos. It’s not going to be able to access only fans, you know, and you know, you can monitor this with this world.

You know, they’re your kids, this is your responsibility. You can even block it at the ISP level so that when they’re accessing wifi, they can access it. It’s going to be much more effective, but people don’t want to hear that. People want to hear that there’s a magic solution that they’re going to take down. These are all sites. You know? I mean, I think that, you know, I hear arguments. I get with anti-porn groups and they say, well, it’s, you know, it’s like liquor, you know, kids can’t just go into a liquor shop and buy liquor and they need to do age verification.

And I was like, but they can go into your cabinet and drink liquor. And so the, this stuff is going to be everywhere, right? They could that this isn’t going to be something that is done just by, oh, we, we pass the age verification for liquor and no kids ever access it. Right. It’s not it we’ve. We understand that this is something that you have to talk to kids about. You have to monitor their behavior, you have to observe it and you have to, you know, keep it out of sight. You know, you have to keep it so that they can access it, you know?

And there’s always going to be people who are going to try to get around that, but an involved parent can be much more effective than the government.

Speaker 1 (52m 22s): Yeah. Good luck. Good luck with that. In, in 2022, I’d like to thank you for being our guests, to Dan adults. I broker Taka was fascinating and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon.

Speaker 2 (52m 36s): Thanks so much for this. I really, really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (52m 38s): My broker tip today is part four of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your site, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it trademarking, your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans.

You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends. If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they are likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things. Review porn, be creative, not just one of many.

Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes on your site. Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week, we’ll be speaking with Jack polo of Mach media. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Mike Stabile of the Free Speech Coalition. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Dominic Ford of JustFor.Fans.

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These women have created sexy profiles and uploaded photos to attract men and most have supplied a government issued photo ID. These profiles can be imported into any dating or cam network. The network’s traffic is 91% direct and 8% organic geo-targeting services run MaxMind data. They have never marketed to their lists or members outside of their own network of dating sites. So this is a huge opportunity for anyone interested in marketing, similar dating offers or other adult content and services, their main developers available to continue as a contractor only 372,000 us dollars.

Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today and adult site broker talk is Dominic Ford. The owner of just for fans, Dominic, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 49s): Absolutely. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 51s): Hey, it’s a pleasure to have you, man. As you know, we’ve been working on this for a long time. Now Dominic’s been in the adult industry for years. He started the gay porn site, Dominick ford.com in 2008, in 2010, he started porn, guardian.com an industry leading anti-piracy company after winning lifetime achievement awards at all the major award shows he founded just for fans in 2018, just for fans as one of the most successful fan platforms in the world.

He was just named businessman of the year at the 2022 ex-business executive awards. Congratulations. So many fan sites are springing up, but a lot of these people are clearly not from the industry. You are Dominic. You have vast experience, not only as a performer, but an entrepreneur. How does this give just for fans and advantage?

Speaker 2 (3m 49s): So I, I think that one of the things that we’re seeing in the landscape right now is a lot of, a lot of these fan platforms are coming in from outside of the industry and they don’t understand the industry. And eventually they grow their, their eyes grow wider than maybe what they, what they see there’s potential for the industry. And they want to, they want to go mainstream and then they, and because they have no attachment to the industry, they are just as happy to leave it behind as they were to rake in money from it.

So I think if there, if there’s one major difference, like that’s the big difference is that we’re we’re from the industry, which means a couple, it means a couple of things. And the first thing it means is we’re not going anywhere. We’re not mainstreaming. We’re not gonna cancel sex workers the way other platforms have or threatened to, to, to be, to do. I mean, other thing is that we understand the ecosystem. So we understand that that in the industry, there are, there are models for sure, but there’s also photographers and their studios and there’s agents and managers and affiliates and, and, and places to film their studio, like physical studios.

And so all of these, all of these different factions that people can make money on just for fans in a way that, that there’s no place for them in these other platforms that, that never even try to understand how the industry operated.

Speaker 1 (5m 20s): Sure, sure. So how did you originally get into the adult industry and also talk about your growth from more, you started to where you are today?

Speaker 2 (5m 31s): So, okay. So 14, it’s hard to believe it’s been 14 years. So 14 years ago, my ex boyfriend and I at the time would look at porn sites together. And he, so my background, I’m a computer scientist, I’m a software engineer and my father is a photographer. So those are, those are the skills that I’m sort of born with. And my ex, my ex is a graphic designer. And so we would look at these sites and, and he would say, boy, the graphic design looks so rudimentary.

And I would say on the photography, lighting is awful. And we play around with the site and the site was clunky and slow and not intuitive. And, and we both talk about how bad the user experience is. And we kept saying to each other boy between the two of us, we, we actually have the skillset to do this and do it better. And after I don’t remember exactly, but something like five or six months of saying that we finally said, you know what, like, why not do a little side project?

And, and, and just kind of throw this to the wall, build, build what we would want to see in a porn site and hope that other people think so too. And we didn’t tell any of our friends, it was a big kind of secret. And then a year later it was paying all of our bills and I quit my day job and we call up to all of our friends.

Speaker 1 (7m 0s): Wow. Wow. So

Speaker 2 (7m 2s): That’s about 14 years ago.

Speaker 1 (7m 4s): Yeah. Like many, like many good things that happened by accident.

Speaker 2 (7m 9s): For sure.

Speaker 1 (7m 10s): So I find it unusual for performers to also be entrepreneurs. At least that used to be the case. That’d be for fan sites, like just for fans as one of the original performer entrepreneurs. How does that feel?

Speaker 2 (7m 27s): So I definitely started as the entrepreneur first and the model second sort of, I built, I built the site and, and we, we, and made the site was always models who we would hire. And it wasn’t, I was never on the site until later in, in the game. And the reason for that is I always wanted to be. And so every year I would film something with a model and just to see if my body was ready, if I looked fat on camera, you know, like, and I did that probably for, for three or four years, like once a year I would film something and I would say to the model, and, you know, I would pay them off as before.

And I would say like, just FYI, this, this may never see the light of day. This is more of a screen test for myself. And, and it wasn’t until three or four years of doing that. We’re finally, I was like, you know what? This is, I I’m finally good enough to try being on camera without being super, super embarrassed. And in fact, the funny thing is like, I’ve stopped. I’ve stopped being in front of camera now because I have no time. And I’m actually in the best shape of my life. And I feel like, boy, now I want to get back into it just to, just to show people what a 46 year old can look like.

Speaker 1 (8m 47s): I love it now, just for fans thinks about more than just the fan model relationship. Now, you also facilitate models, helping and finding other models. How do you do that?

Speaker 2 (9m 1s): So of the unique things that just were fans has over its competitors is again, we are not simply an e-commerce engine trying to make money. We’re not a money machine. We really be because we come from sex workers. We really try to think about the whole, the whole life of the model. And that is not just once a video is filmed. How do I make money from it?

So, so this lifecycle of the model includes finding models to work with sharing. They’re sharing the content with each other and then posting the continent and potentially sharing the revenue. So this is a much broader sense of, of, of the world. So we, so just start with the third prong, the first prong of, of those three prongs, how do, how do we facilitate models, finding other models? We have an app on this site called finder.

If anybody who’s listening knows what Grindr is. A Grindr is an app for gay men that, that geo geo locates people. So you can see who’s near you. So, so, and then you can talk to them and, and hookup or whatnot. So we have our version of that called finder. It’s for everybody on the site, obviously not just the guys and it’s only for verified models and it’s, opt-in only, so if you don’t want people to know where you live, then you don’t have to, and it has a ton of cool functionality. So I can, so right now, for example, I’m in, in Puerto Vallarta, I can go on to finder and see what other, just for fans verified models are in port of aorta or, or the, or the vicinity.

And I can send them a note either on Twitter or on just your fans. I can do a search if I’m going to, if I’m going to Paris next week, I can do a search from here on Paris, France and see who’s in Paris. And even more than that, I can, I can tell this site that I’m going to be traveling to Paris next week so that if anybody else searches for Paris in that timeframe, my name will come up.

Speaker 1 (11m 9s): That’s cool. That’s really cool

Speaker 2 (11m 13s): To help models meet each other.

Speaker 1 (11m 15s): Yeah. How did, how did that all come about?

Speaker 2 (11m 18s): Well, again, I mean, I use the site, you know, especially during the, the, during the beginning, I, I have my own page with more updated at the, at the beginning of the, of the, of the, of the, you know, our life. But, but I use, I use the site and I think that if you have somebody who wrote the site using the site on a daily basis, they say, oh boy, I wish this site could do X, but I can then go build it that night. Right. You know, and I remember, I remember the day that the idea came up is I was, I was actually, most of my good ideas happened in the gym because I talked to my trainer, like he’s a therapist.

And I tell him all my problems.

Speaker 1 (11m 57s): I love it.

Speaker 2 (11m 58s): And I remember, and I distinctly remember this day, where one day I was saying, boy, you know, I know there’s a lot of people in Fort Lauderdale to film with, but I just don’t know who they are. And it’s, if you ask somebody on Grindr, if they want to film, then if they report you, you get your account banned. And I had gotten my account, my account and grinder banned four or five times for quote-unquote soliciting, even though I wasn’t solicited, there’s no money changing hands. And I remember saying to him, I wish that there was some kind of a grinder that we could use for models.

And then I said, and it was like Eureka. I’m like, well, I’m going to build that tonight. Like I have, I have, I’m a computer, I’m an engineer. Like I can do these things.

Speaker 1 (12m 40s): Yeah. And that’s that, that’s something that makes you guys so much different because, you know, as a performer and as a member of the industry, you’ve really built the site for you and people like you.

Speaker 2 (12m 56s): For sure. For sure. And, and the great thing about our community is that I may have a great idea. Our staff might have a great idea. Users might have our models may have great ideas, and they know that we’re super, super agile and super, super adaptable. Because if you have a good idea, give me a day, you know, like, you know, hold my beer and I’m going to build it for you. And so a ton of great features on the site, I’ll give you another one. So another way that we help with that, we facilitate models, connecting with each other is that you like on Facebook verified models, can friend other models.

And what that means is they see your content for free. You see their content for free, and you can, you can comment. And like each other’s posts and you can’t do that easily on other platforms. And how did that come about? They came back. And again, I remember this day, very clearly I was in the car talking to a model on the phone and or maybe it was texting, what was that? I was in the car. So it’s probably the phone

Speaker 1 (13m 59s): I’m driving. Very good.

Speaker 2 (14m 0s): You can drive kids, don’t text and drive. And I remember him saying, how do I give a free promo code to a model I just worked with? And I’m like, why do you want to do that? And he said, because I want him to be able to comment. And like, on my end, like things on my page, so we can cross vote each other as if, as if we were friends on Facebook. And he said that he said that phrase. And I said, well, why don’t we build a feature that has a friend feature like on Facebook because you’re using, you know, I, I, he was using the tools available to achieve his goal, which was giving this guy a promo to do X, Y, and Z.

But that didn’t, that was a solution that was an odd solution to the problem he was having. So I’m like, why don’t we actually fix the problem instead of shoehorn the existing functionality into a solution.

Speaker 1 (14m 52s): Right. And knowing you, Dominic, I’m guessing that that’s not a rare exception where you speak to the performers.

Speaker 2 (15m 0s): Oh, no. I, I, it daily on a daily basis. I mean, again, I mean, I, I’ve had a porn studio that I started 14 years ago and ran it for 12 years. I stopped at two years ago when gestures answer golf because I had a time, but my entire life, my ecosystem is models. And so I hear, and they have no qualms texting me at three in the morning telling me what’s not working or what they wish the site could do differently.

Speaker 1 (15m 25s): That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So other sites, as you know, are throwing off models, but just for fans is known for supporting models. What kind of performers on your are on your site and what kinds are you looking for to add to the site?

Speaker 2 (15m 42s): You know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a good question. And also sort of an existential crisis question for me, because a lot of, a lot of people know us as a, as a gay site

Speaker 1 (15m 55s): Began, I was going to ask you about that.

Speaker 2 (15m 57s): I come from the gang side of the industry and when I started, who do I notice say, Hey, look at my site. It’s the gay side. Of course, for sure. We are overwhelmingly, I’ll say queer. I would love, I would love more women to use the site. It’s it’s to be quite honest and show my cards. It’s been very difficult to get straight women straight CIS women to use the site. And, and I don’t, I don’t know if it’s, you know, because they don’t want to be on a site that, that is known to be more gay or they think their audience won’t go there.

I, I don’t know what it is, but it’s, it’s not, it’s not been easy there. The people who are very success and, and sometimes when they’ve come, there’s not been the traffic for them just to be again, to be, you know, to, to show all my cards and, and not, and not pull punches here. The, the people who, who are successful, who are very successful in the site are gay men, trans men and trans women and CIS women who are, who are in various fetish niches that maybe they can’t have at other sites.

So for example, the ABD El community and the fisting community and the fin Dom community, like they do very well on our site. And, and I, and I hate to say it it’s mainly because they, they can’t be on only fans, but they have found refuge on our site. And, and I’m hoping that the more mainstream women do also, but I never want to turn my back on, on the people who’ve supported us for four years, which is the, the gay, the gay male audience.

Speaker 1 (17m 39s): Yeah, no, absolutely. Actually I have some ideas on that. We’ll have to talk about when we finished the interview. I it’s something just sprung to mind. Yeah. Got some keys for you. So you’re also known for supporting the community and you’re the only platform that gives to many charities. What do you do for charities and why do you do

Speaker 2 (17m 59s): So, you know, you’re sort of hitting on all the differentiators that we have over our competitors, which, which I appreciate. So, you know, we, we’re, we’re part of this community and, and, and that takes on a couple different manifestations. And one, one manifestation before we talk about charities is that we sponsor parties, events, award shows, but before COVID, we were sponsoring 20 or 30 events mainly in the, in the queer space a month.

Cool. And, and we, and we published, and the first of the month we publish, we publish a calendar of, you know, we’re this, this underwear party in Las Vegas, and this party here, and then this award show there. And, and we’re ramping that up now, again, we did some online stuff, but during COVID, but now we’re ramping that up again, as things open up. Cool. So, so we spend tons of money just in sponsorships for small, small, and big events all across the country and across the world. And then we have our charitable giving arm.

No other organization that I’m aware of in the adult industry has a, has a, a systemic built in charitable giving arm, which this was a giant mission of mine. Every year when we started, I had like big goals the years, what your one goal was to get some kind of a healthcare package for a models, which we did.

Speaker 1 (19m 28s): Wow. Congratulations. Thank you

Speaker 2 (19m 30s): Again. No one else, no one else does this. And, and, and your two was to figure out how we can give back to the community. And so what we did is we set up on a search for charities who would work with us because they’re at the, of, at the time, there were not, there were a lot who said no big, like big charities who didn’t want our, our poor money. So we launched with four or five

Speaker 1 (19m 55s): Isn’t that just ridiculous their goal supposed to be, to raise money yet, if it comes from dirty porn, we don’t want your money.

Speaker 2 (20m 3s): Yeah. And it was like, I don’t remember. I don’t want to throw anybody under the bus because my memory is bad, but it was like, I mean, like glad and the Trevor project and, and gay gay charities did not. What’s the one, what’s the one for, for older gays. Oh, shoot. I can’t remember. Well, anyway, but yeah, they, they didn’t want our money, you know, they didn’t want to be associated. So like we’ll find,

Speaker 1 (20m 26s): You know, and, and the fact, and the fact that the, the LGBTQ plus people have been persecuted for so long for them to further persecute, I think is just so hypocritical. It’s just amazing.

Speaker 2 (20m 42s): Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s so, you know, so whatever. So we found the charities who are happy working with us and, and we, so, so basically, so, so models, models can choose to give any percentage of their income to any number of our charities. They can pick any combination of our charities. And so, and you as a user, can you see that on their page? How, what percentage they’re giving to what charity, but you can also search on the site and rank the models by how much they’re giving to charity, just in, in the mainstream world, this is called ethical spending.

It’s the idea that I, as a consumer, want to put my money into organizations who put their money into causes, I believe in, and that idea just does not exist in the portal. And I, I come from mainstream e-commerce before I was important, I was building some of the largest.com websites in the world, and that’s not hyperbole that’s that’s reality. And, and that was beginning to be a thing back then. And so I take some of those lessons into my, my porn world and say, well, no, one’s doing this.

So now that I have a platform that could actually make a difference, I’m going to. And so we, I think, is it January 1st, we released a press release that we had raised over $100,000 in, in charitable donations to these charities.

Speaker 1 (22m 11s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (22m 12s): And that, and black and black lives matter, which we started during the height of the L BLM move in a year and a half ago. I think that accounts for something like $40,000 by itself.

Speaker 1 (22m 25s): Oh, that’s great. That’s great. Who else, who else you guys give? Who else are you guys giving to?

Speaker 2 (22m 30s): Our charities include black lives matter, $46,000. So far trans lifeline, which is about 20, over $21,000 Woodhall freedom foundation. They are the lobbying firm that’s fighting against assessed to foster,

Speaker 1 (22m 47s): Right? Right.

Speaker 2 (22m 49s): Pineapple support, which provides mental health to the adult industry. We

Speaker 1 (22m 54s): Sponsor there’s. I think you are too.

Speaker 2 (22m 56s): Yeah. The HIV league. This is a, this is a really great organization that gives, that gives scholarships to college students living with HIV.

Speaker 1 (23m 10s): Wow. Wow. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of field goal feel good stuff.

Speaker 2 (23m 15s): Yeah. And just a couple more. So swap sex workers, outreach project, there are a sex worker organization, and a point of pride is a, is another trans trans nonprofit. And then also the free speech coalition. And we just added last week, gay and sober, which is a, an organization for w as, as the name would clearly imply gay, sober people looking to, to connect in and, and have programming and events and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (23m 43s): That’s fantastic. So, so other fan platforms require models to bring their own traffic. Do you?

Speaker 2 (23m 52s): We certainly love when people bring their own traffic. I won’t say no to it, but no. One of the big things, the big differential differentiators of our site is that we do everything we can to introduce you the model to people, to fans on the site who don’t know you, and we try to make you sales. And, and in fact, we did a we number crunched a year ago. So I’m not sure where these numbers are currently, but about a year ago, we, we number crunch this and about one third, 30% of any particular models, sales came from internal traffic.

Speaker 1 (24m 33s): Great.

Speaker 2 (24m 34s): Which is a much larger number than I frankly had anticipated. So, so because we’re, so we’re a porn site. Let, let, let me put that out there. Just for fans is a porn site. And when you look at our competitors, they will talk to you about their tennis pros and their chefs. And they will not say we have sex workers. So, so what does that mean that we can do that they can’t do. We can highlight our performers so you can search on the site.

You can search by, by genders and you can search by categories like twink and bear and MILF and, and whatnot. And so, so, and then models who are friends with other models in this sort of Facebook friendly thing. I was talking about every model on their, on their page has a list of their friends. And so if I’m a user and I like model X, I can see who their friends are. And, and even more than that, my, my background is in artificial intelligence.

It’s I out of college, I was, I was working at an AI think tank present as a programmer. And so there’s an AI component to our site where you have subscribed to, I think it’s three or more people. There’s a whole page dedicated just in showing you other models that we think you might like, based on you’re already subscribed to.

Speaker 1 (25m 57s): That’s really cool, not enough, not enough people in, and don’t take advantage of that.

Speaker 2 (26m 1s): That paid makes a ton of money for models. And this is all internal track. We track, we track everything. So every

Speaker 1 (26m 8s): Sale

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): You can track back to how that sale was made. Be it an internal tool or your external Twitter or Instagram or, or whatnot, we track everything. Or the, the stats that we give our models are, are, are, are parallel to nobody. And so we can tell exactly what is doing well on the site. And yeah. So everything that we can do to make our models, money beyond the traffic, only that, that, that they’re bringing themselves. We do.

Speaker 1 (26m 34s): Yeah. I’d tell you if I was a model you would have already sold me. Now you have an exclusive program. Why would a model be adjust for fans?

Speaker 2 (26m 44s): Right. So again, I, I think we’re the only people to do this too, but I, I, I don’t keep up with our competition, so sure. So regularly, anymore, I don’t really know. I think we’re the only people who have an exclusive program. So we, we give 80% to our models and we keep 20%. And if you’re an exclusive to us, you get a few things. The most important thing to most people is the money. You get 85% on almost everything launches versus 80%. Yeah.

So, and that’s, there’s lots of different ways to make money on the site. So 85% covers most of those. And, and then we have an exclusives page that just lists our exclusives. And every day, this site highlights one model that is listed on the top of every browse page, where you’re browsing list of models. And every day we highlight in a long form question and answer one model. And if you’re cool. Yeah, right. So it’s another way that we highlight models.

And if you’re an exclusive model, there’s a calendaring feature where you can select what days you want to be featured. Every everybody can get featured. If, if there’s a day that’s not accounted for, by an exclusive, the system will randomly look at other models. Who’ve been active in the last two weeks and featured them, but exclusive get first dibs on whatever days they want.

Speaker 1 (28m 9s): Sure, sure. So what difference does it make in your corporate mission, who you hire on your staff?

Speaker 2 (28m 16s): 100% of our staff is sex workers or people who have been in the adult industry for well over 10 years. And it’s mainly sex workers. And when I say 100%, I mean, 100%, especially because I’m, I mean, I’m the developer. And, and normally everybody would be like, oh, we hired this, this front person to be the face of our company, but the developers and the lawyer, and, you know, the back end, people are in a customer service people.

They’re not sex workers. Well, ours, ours are either sex workers or people in the industry, our entire customer service team, all of them. Let me just make sure that’s right. All, but one has their own page on just your fans. The one that doesn’t has been helping chatter bait models for like 13 or 14 years with strategy and whatnot. So he’s, so he’s in the industry. He’s just not on the page. The other, the other four of them all have pages on their website.

You know, my lawyer’s been in the industry for, for God knows, 15 or 20 years. So all of this goes back to when, when you talk to our customer service people, very using this site as well, and maybe they know a better way to skin the cat you’re trying to skin, or, or maybe they’re having the same problem you’re having, you know, and, and can bug me about it. There’s a level of empathy to our company in that our default stance is to side with the model.

And a lot of our competitors, their default stance is to side against the model.

Speaker 1 (30m 5s): Yeah. I’ve heard, I’ve heard that looking at some of the, the forums and stuff, some of the boards you S you see a lot of complaints about a lot of companies. I can’t say I’ve seen any about you guys.

Speaker 2 (30m 17s): Yeah, no. I mean, we, we, we do our best to do right by models.

Speaker 1 (30m 20s): That’s awesome. Now you’ve referred to your platform as a friendly disrupter to the industry. What does that mean? And why are you proud of it?

Speaker 2 (30m 30s): So this kind of goes back to this idea of who, who can make money on the site. When, when only fan started, I was the owner of a studio and all of the studios were crazy afraid of only fans because it locked out studios. It’s great that it gave models, freedom, freedom, and agency, and an economy. That’s awesome. But, but what happens when that, when, when, when that happens is that it’s harder for studios to be successful.

It’s harder for agents to make money because agents are not making money on fan content scenes. They’re making money on studio scenes. I’m sure the bloggers who always write about studio porn and make money from their links to the, the, to the studios via affiliate links, aren’t making money because people are looking at only fans. So, so this, so that’s, so only fans was a disruptor. We want it to be a friendly disruptors saying, we, we understand that all these other people want to be able to make money and not, and we don’t want them to be afraid of us.

And so if you’re an agent, you can have an agency on the site and, and, and get a percentage from your models. If you’re an affiliate, you can be an affiliate on our site and make money. When you send traffic to us. If you’re, if you’re a photographer or you own a physical studio, or you’re a camera man, or you’re an editor, we can have a plate. We have a place in our site. That’s sort of a marketplace where you can say, I am an, I’m an editor. And I used to edit for, for studios, but now I’m editing for anybody who wants to hire me.

So we really, we really think about the ecosystem in a, in a way that we want everyone to be involved. And I’ll give you one more point. So studios who are on the platform, certainly people, people do better than the studios. And so I sort of started to think, well, how can, how can studios harness their models in a way to make money? So there’s even a way in our system, if you are a studio and, and you’re on platform and you upload a movie that’s, that’s for sale, it’s an individual for sale thing in the store.

You can tell the models who are in that movie, who are on just for fans to put a link to it on their adjuster fans page. And if a sale comes from them, they get a percentage that the studio decides nine. So there’s, there’s, there’s. So there’s like many affiliate system built into just real fans where anybody who sells that product on behalf of the studio can share in some income. And so this is yet another way we’re trying to bridge the gap between the studio, the studio business model and, and the, the fan model centric business model.

Speaker 1 (33m 23s): Yeah. And, you know, ever since the, the fan sites went up, a lot of people in our industry have taken a hit because the fan sites have sucked up a lot of the oxygen. And of course, a lot of the money. And, you know, I, I, I think that’s great what you’re doing, because what you’re doing is you’re putting money back in people’s pockets that had been losing it.

Speaker 2 (33m 48s): Yeah. I mean, we have some studios that sort of went out of business and exists now only on just for fans, because we have the traffic. I mean, do studios do as well as, as individual models, you know, I’m not going to make any bones about that. They don’t. However, we have so much traffic that we have, we have so much more traffic than those individuals studios ever had. I mean, there was a, there’s a website that just listed all of the, on the gay side anyway, all of the gay studios and, and their traffic numbers.

And we are bigger than I think all of them combined. And so there’s a lot of reasons for a studio to want to at least have some kind of a, a finger in our plan.

Speaker 1 (34m 38s): Sure. Isn’t that amazing to you as a performer, that performers can make the kind of money they make on these fan sites.

Speaker 2 (34m 47s): It is incredible. It’s not a hyperbole to say that on a weekly basis, I, I hear from someone whose life has been changed, and these are especially coming from the studio world. And again, I was a producer, so I know, I know how this all works and how much models get paid and models get paid once they get a flat rate and that’s it. And if their movie or DVD is the worst movie released this year, or the best movie in the last 10 years, they made their thousand dollars or their $1,500 or their $400.

Speaker 1 (35m 25s): Not really fair.

Speaker 2 (35m 26s): Yeah. And, and, and so these really famous models, I mean, you know, it’s funny where like, you know, fame and fame and wealth are very distinct ideas, especially in the studio world. You can be the most famous model in the world and have two, $2 to you because you didn’t work in the last six months and you didn’t get paid that much to begin with. But now these models have agency. They have a passive, recurring income that they never had before. We can help them get health insurance.

I mean, it’s just a whole new world, and I know models who were making half a million dollars a year or more on just your fans. And, and these are models that would have been making $20,000 a year. If they were just doing studio work,

Speaker 1 (36m 11s): That’s gotta feel good to be a part of that.

Speaker 2 (36m 13s): It’s, you know, if somebody years ago once asked me what my favorite day of the week was, I, I, and I know it sounds super, super, super corny, and I, if you’re listening to this and you’re rolling your eyes, I’m sorry, but Wednesday, Wednesdays are my favorite day because that’s our payroll date. And I see how many people, we are giving money to getting money. And she’s not the right. How many, how many people are earning money on our site? How much money we are putting in the pockets of our models.

And I know models who bought houses, I know models who have pay their way through school, who paid for health care for their parents. Like, I mean, these are real world, real world differences, not just, oh, I got, I got nicer shoes. No.

Speaker 1 (36m 60s): Right, right. That’s crazy. So what are some of the key features of just for fans that your competitors don’t have?

Speaker 2 (37m 8s): Boy, we’ve talked about so many of them,

Speaker 1 (37m 11s): Well, any you haven’t mentioned

Speaker 2 (37m 12s): Well, so, so for example, on, on only fans specifically, I don’t, I don’t usually like to address competitors head on, but, but just thinking of them specifically, I know a lot of people have a free only fans page and a paid only fans page, which I just see as it’s a waste of time and effort. So with our site, any post that you make, you can decide is a free post or only for your subscribers. And, and then anybody can follow your page for free, which means they just see, they just see on their, on their amalgamated homepage, which, which collects all the new stuff from people they’re subscribed to.

They’ll also see your stuff. But if they’re not subscribed to you, they’ll see the, the non-subscriber version, which has maybe a blurry picture or a preview, but they can at least, but you can still stay top of mind to them. But if you have something for free, they’ll see it for free. And so you don’t want it to maintain a separate free page. Your page can be as free as you want it to be. And there’s no exact line, a direct line to convert them, to paying subscribers versus saying, click on this other page, which is my other site. I promise you it’s really me.

Speaker 1 (38m 25s): Yeah. It’s kind of clunky.

Speaker 2 (38m 27s): Yeah. So, I mean, so that’s one feature, God, I mean, there’s so many, I mean, we just, just as far as this and this comes because I’m, I was a model uploading something to our competitor sites. I had to create a preview for it. And I had to make a tweak for it. Our site, you can choose how long you want the preview to be. It makes the preview by itself. It tweets, it tweets out the preview by itself. If you’re an exclusive and you can’t film for two months, for whatever reason, or you’re offline for two months, you can tell our system every day, just to tweet an old video of yours, just to make people think you’re still current and around and keep you top of mind.

Speaker 1 (39m 10s): That’s cool.

Speaker 2 (39m 11s): For example, and we’re chock full of stuff like this,

Speaker 1 (39m 15s): Any, any exciting features coming up?

Speaker 2 (39m 19s): We just, well, not just anymore. I guess three, two months ago, three months ago, we had a retreat of the staff. We went to Disney world and which was a lot of fun. And part of that retreat was to sit and brainstorm ideas for the future. And that included what are our users are asking for and what we all, because they’re all because my whole staff is on the site itself, but they would be helpful, et cetera. And we came up with this ginormous list of features.

One, one feature for example, is playlist. So now I, as a model, can group any number of my scenes in a specific order into a playlist

Speaker 1 (40m 3s): Of cool like

Speaker 2 (40m 3s): Music, let’s say. Yeah. So let’s say, for example, if I have a good example, let’s say for example, that I’m, I routinely work with model X. I work with tons of models, but I, I worked with model X a lot, and I know that the two of us have a chemistry that people keep wanting to see. I can now make a playlist that is just our movies together. Or people are into fetish X that I do well, here’s a collection of the fetish X scenes that I do.

And, and I can post those on my timeline. And, and, and so this was a feature that was requested and we took it one step further. So now users can across the whole site, make their own timelines for their pages. So if there’s, if there’s 15 models, I like, and, and there I have favorite scenes through each of them. I can collect those favorite scenes into my own playlist that I can either share publicly on my page or just private to myself. Cool. So for instance, that’s a huge feature that we launched that came out of that meeting and yes, there are, there are tons more so stay tuned.

Speaker 1 (41m 12s): Okay. So how has COVID changed things for, just for France?

Speaker 2 (41m 17s): Well, it’s no, it’s no secret that COVID was very good for the adult industry. People were home. People still had money to spend and people watch porn. And it was also good for models who maybe were toying with the idea of getting into the industry or who, who then began to think about other ways to make money. And so we saw this a gigantic influx of, of both models and customers, and, and even now as, as COVID is, I dare say in his latter days, cause who the hell knows what’s coming next?

Speaker 1 (41m 55s): Yeah. It was like, sounded like Freddy Krueger. You never know that he’s actually gone away.

Speaker 2 (41m 59s): Yeah. So don’t quote me on that one, but, but I, with the, but now that we’ve learned to live our lives, co-existing with COVID numbers have not gone down. I think some, I think some models who joined the site just to see if they can make money because they’re other jobs were laid them off or what have you maybe went back to those lives and are not doing anymore, but frankly that’s fine. It’s, it’s kind of the people who weren’t that serious about it are, are leaving.

And that leaves more opportunity to leave for the people who actually view this as a, as a job

Speaker 1 (42m 35s): In, and if they made money, I’m sure they’re still doing it

Speaker 2 (42m 37s): For, for sure.

Speaker 1 (42m 39s): So besides features, what’s next for, just for fans,

Speaker 2 (42m 43s): Let’s see. We, we always have an annual party and we did not last year, obviously because of COVID and this year, again, we, we were planning it and then Omicron happened and I think we’re going to not do it again this year, but, but when we have our events, we it’s, we it’s three of them. There’s a models, only party where models can feel comfortable and safe in a safe environment just to meet each other. And certainly tons of models, film at the party and, and, and at the hotels where we’re at, et cetera, we have a second party, that’s a public party where models can meet fans and vice versa.

And then we have a, and then we have a day of seminars and seminars and workshops. Last, last time we did it. I think there were four or five expert panels, all made up of models on the, on the site that been into various categories or have certain expertise, teaching, teaching people, their secrets, how to be successful, how they’re successful, what tricks and tools they’ve learned along the road. And it’s, I cannot tell you how many models, even the experienced ones who are maybe successful at studio porn, but maybe don’t know how to market themselves as well, because they never had to listen to these workshops and immediately had 20 or 30 things to try the next day to make themselves more profitable.

And so we’re going to, so this year the parties are probably not going to happen, but we will do this learning event virtually for our models because it was it’s too important to not do it. Yeah. So, I mean, so that’s on the horizon and, and we’re sponsoring a ton of award shows. The, the trans erotic awards are coming up, that we’re a major sponsor of gravity’s Europe, Grabbys America and the experts award and the, the expert is a show we just did. So, you know, and we’re, and we’re ramping up on our events again.

So we’re, we’re kind of also placed.

Speaker 1 (44m 42s): That’s great. So last question, what’s your goal for just for fans?

Speaker 2 (44m 47s): So I kind of alluded to this earlier, but the people, the models who are on just for fans have found a safe space where they don’t have to have anxiety over weather today. When I wake up is today, the day that my account gets shut down or, or videos on my account get removed because I have somehow violated some new terms of service that sprung up overnight, that no one told us about Our, our models don’t have those issues.

And, and I would love the rest of the industry. Who’s not on just for fans. And, and that includes the, the gay guys who are not on us, but also includes the, the large groups of, of other types of people like straight women, straight CIS women, for example, who just haven’t really considered us for whatever their reasons to, to realize that, that we’re, we’re probably the safest home that that is around right now.

Speaker 1 (45m 50s): Yeah. Yeah. I’m surprised more didn’t flock to you after the whole only fans fiasco.

Speaker 2 (45m 56s): Well, you know, it’s, it’s funny and this is maybe a tangent and, but a lot of these people at that moment said, why, why isn’t there a site built by someone in the industry that we can trust? And I’m like, well, there is,

Speaker 1 (46m 11s): Hello.

Speaker 2 (46m 12s): Hi, been here for, for, at that time three and a half years, but, but the straight side really kind of either turn their nose up at us or wasn’t aware of us or, or something. I don’t want to put words in their, in their mouth. And then a news, a news site came along who I’m not going to name. And they grabbed a bunch of the women from only fans and promised them 90% for three or six months or something. And here’s a new site, not from the industry and nobody knows who owns it.

And all of the women went there and it really,

Speaker 1 (46m 46s): They went because somebody flashed the cash in front of them.

Speaker 2 (46m 49s): Yeah. Someone flashed the cash and all of this moral high ground of why isn’t there a site built for us from us. They didn’t care because they saw 90%. And so that makes me throw my hands up and be like, you know, what, if, if you’re never going to come to us, then I will, I will spend my time elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (47m 10s): Never’s a long time. Dominic, never’s a long time.

Speaker 2 (47m 13s): So, I mean, I mean, maybe we do the same thing. Maybe we, we flashed the cash, but, but if, but if people are so fickle, I mean, I learned this from my dot-com days, my, my main street.com days, if, if people are only interested in your brand, because of the discounts that you give and, or in this case, the incentives that you give, then they will leave you the minute someone else does one better. Right. And those are the people that I want.

Speaker 1 (47m 37s): Yeah, no, I understand now as it should be. Well, Hey, Dominic, I’d like to thank you for being our guests to Dan adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (47m 48s): I appreciate it. And thank you for the time and the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (47m 52s): Hey man, it was a blast. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, find new ways to monetize your site, such as sell advertising. If you’ve got a free site, like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site. If you have a tube, another way to make more money is to sell premium memberships, offer free users, one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality or longer videos or both.

You can also make the site ad free for premium members. Start an affiliate program. If you have a pay site, this is a great way to increase your quality of traffic and get more joints with all sites. You can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell to your users. Pay sites can also sell, pay per view, where people have the option of paying by the scene for content they can’t get on the site. This is also another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee, sell them other products like toys and novelties market, your business, do things to improve your search engine results.

There are some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our site list, all of the benefits of your site and your marketing and how they affect the user. And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firms, such as adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time check services you pay for like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options.

Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch. Plus got higher quality hosting in the process. Again, ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost-effectively along with this, make your profit and loss statement, show more profit, increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that make sure your P and L statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal expenses you put in. This will cost you money when you sell it may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you.

If you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement, remember every dollar in profit increases the value of your website. As much as three to four times, this is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars, more on their sale just by adjusting the P and L statement to accurately reflect actual business expenses as to oppose to a bunch of tax BS. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Mike <inaudible> of the free speech coalition.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Dominic Ford. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Brad Mitchell of Mojohost.

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1 (1m 40s):
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1 (2m 20s):
Only 1.5 million euros. Now time for this week’s interview. So what would you call the turning points in the development of our industry as a whole in the last 20 years?

2 (2m 35s):
I would say three things. So first thing, right out of the gate, between in my ops, these are all my observations between course 2000, 2000 2006, probably 2005, 2006. For me, I remember it was significant because I had to move my data center operations from Michigan to a larger data center in a state that was better networked, but was when video became rich and big. So for those of you listening, you know, it wasn’t always the case that there was free videos online, everywhere. Like it was actually the case back in those years, I recall all of the free galleries and promotions were images.

2 (3m 19s):
And I remember going to conferences where people were debating giving away seven to 15 second video clips saying, well, why would somebody, why would somebody ever buy if you’re going to give them this much content for free, not behind a page. Right. So I think very, I think very early on that was a paradigm shift because all of a sudden we were changing how we were entertaining people behind and in front of the paywall. So I think that that was significant. And I would time that to 2006, because of the recent I moved my desk, my data center, and back then the 200 servers, 250 servers I had in Michigan down to Miami was I couldn’t buy access to the internet at rates that would make me globally competitive.

2 (4m 1s):
And this was now relevant because we were pushing weight for it, a couple of gigabit, which, which back then cost very, very different dollars. Right?

1 (4m 12s):
So I remember that too.

2 (4m 14s):
So that was significant. I think the next paradigm shift happened quite literally about five years later. And this was the advent of tube sites. So this was the difference in mindset and, and delivery and site design between having reasonably sized promotions that were out there and given the whole thing away for free, so around. And I’m sure I’m, I’m, I’m not precise on the air, but sometime between 2009, 2011, this became prevalent. And the first tube sites that were online, they had all stolen content and the laws really weren’t caught up with the technology. So there was no terms to enforcement, but basically the idea was let’s go rip everyone’s videos and, or log into their members, areas, download their videos, cause those are the best ones.

2 (5m 4s):
And then let’s post them for free and then let’s take their watermarks up and we’ll put watermarks on for our site or other shit that we want to promote. And then let’s design a website that has advertisements for everything else except for their website. So let’s promote ed products, let’s promote other video sites let’s promote live cam websites. So this was a fundamental shift, right? So this in dating, right? Especially with dating and all this other stuff in life camps, right? So this was, this was what I considered to be the second paradigm shift in the adult internet of things. Because at this point you had a divergence, you had some people with new thinking. Basically, the guy is starting from zero.

2 (5m 44s):
It’s like, Hey, I got nothing to lose and everything to gain, right? So, and a lot of them multinational, not necessarily based in north America. So not even, not even necessarily subject to these kinds of laws and things like this, right? So they go and they launch these sites and of course they get, you know, this is, this is a huge deal. And they start getting tremendous traffic and this starts growing. But that, that was significant because that was the first nail in the coffin to premium site owners, which was the way back then, there were not really sites that were huge, that were selling paperclip. I know that this was always a part of the business model for ABN and they’re still successful. And they were then, and also for hot movies.

2 (6m 25s):
And I’m sure also for clips for sale at that time. But then, but then there was 10 or 20,000 other premium sites that charged 9 99 to 39 99 a month that didn’t have any individual consumption. Right. And a lot of those site owners, I think that this is when their business started to change. Of course they were all infuriated and wouldn’t everybody, if your stuff is being stolen, posted in someone else’s profiting and you’re getting nothing, but see, but see what happened in those moments. And for the years, the next couple of years that followed is what did those business owners do to react to a complete change in the environment.

2 (7m 6s):
You have the business owners that adapted, and those are going to be the ones, those are the ones that were Julie that are very successful today and still in business. And then you have the ones that didn’t have the ones that

1 (7m 17s):
Just bitched the ones that just bitched. Yeah, I remember.

2 (7m 21s):
Yeah. And, and, you know, to their credit, a lot of them did what they were supposed to do. They went and they hired lawyers and DMC agents, and they started sending out notices to play whack-a-mole to get content removed. And that is certainly one of the right reactions is always to protect your trademark and your copywriting.

1 (7m 36s):

2 (7m 37s):
But the ones that became the most successful are the ones that morphed and said, well, this is, this is really changing how everything’s being consumed and I need to modify my business. So they started creating content, you know, and this is, I think really when we had at sort of at the same moment in time is when reality sites came a thing, wasn’t a thing before then it became a thing around that. This is around that moment. You know, like, I, I don’t know if it was bang bus or which way, you know, which one of the first ones we claim that notoriety, but a lot of sites got, got really, really smart. And they said, well, shit, these sites have all the traffic. And so instead of flight with them, let’s focus on producing our good content. Let’s try to partner with them.

2 (8m 18s):
And that’s how they drove traffic to their sites. And that’s how they got their tens of thousands of members. And that’s how they wrote their history. So that was the second paradigm shift. I think the third paradigm shift is something that’s happened within the last few years, but fully come to maturity probably started about five years at five to six years after that, but really came into its own and full maturity two to three years ago. And this is what we see with only fans and flip sites Because now everything has changed. Right? So now in this day and age, you know, we’ve all got an iPhone or an Android and we’re all consuming all the time on our Netflix or, you know, using the apple store by eclipse and media and doing other things in music.

2 (8m 58s):
Yeah. So I think this is different because this shift takes power away from say the large monolithic platforms that owned the rights to all of the content and in a very certain way. Now there, of course there are new large platforms, but really what’s happened is they’ve given the power back to the producers of the content because in this wasteland and devastation after tube sites happened, there was, you know, we went from having such a huge quantity of content producers to a much, much smaller quantity, right? So, you know, things kind of dried up before they started to expand again. And now what we see is, you know, there are all of these terrific platforms and, you know, there’s five or 10 really big ones.

2 (9m 44s):
You know, obviously the largest one where everybody knows what that one is, but there are hundreds of thousands of content producers. And that’s all very, very interesting. And the smart plug in this smart platforms realize they’re not even going to try to fight the competition, even some of these campsites too. You know, if you go and you look at, if you go, when you look@myfreecams.com and you’ve got, you know, cam girls on there selling their entertainment services, they’re not prohibited from promoting their, their eyeline Crips or their, their clips for sale or their only fans, or the fact that they might take money through that platform and then do a Skype show.

2 (10m 27s):
So I think that’s very interesting. So I think that’s, that’s the most recent paradigm shift because that’s the big deal.

1 (10m 34s):
Absolutely. Yep. So what are some cornerstone technological advances that has affected the business since you’ve been a web host, an adult?

2 (10m 44s):
So I think with this it’s, I mean, obviously at mojo hosts, I’ve, I’m actually, so despite the fact that I’m fun to drink and party with and go out and have dinners and I like to go dancing and everybody knows that I’m actually the it buyer. So every like every hard drive CPU, motherboard choice that’s ever been made, every nut screw bolt cable for all of the tens of millions of dollars in IQ buying, I’ve actually been the one that narrowed it out and figured out all of that.

1 (11m 10s):

2 (11m 11s):
So the biggest technological advances of course have been in CPU speed and processing, you know, and Ram and costs of all of these things. And storage is significant. You know, how you’ve changed from spinning drives to now solid state drives all of these are huge technological advances, but as it would pertain it to the adult industry where that affects everybody is our, in our ability to delivery to deliver high quality live or prerecorded video at low latencies. So this is accomplished by obviously having the right software stack running, but also having complex global networks and the right kind of servers set up that can cache your content, you know, in different geos, if it’s prerecorded video or if it’s your desire to deliver live streaming video, then you know, you need to really have some also some great hosting and a lot of different places.

2 (12m 4s):
So, you know, the networking since I’ve started changed from servers with a hundred megabit ports to gigabit ports, to 10 gigabit ports, to 25 to 40, and now even a hundred gigabit networking on individual servers.

1 (12m 16s):

2 (12m 17s):
And those kinds of changes at the edges of the network too. So

1 (12m 20s):
Well, the cost of, and the cost of hosting has gone so far down.

2 (12m 25s):
It has, it depends on which metric you measure that, you know, it’s still costs for service and support. People cost more now good labor costs more than it’s never cost of before. Right.

1 (12m 36s):
I mean, in terms of when you’re buying data, I’m talking about,

2 (12m 40s):
Oh yeah, no, data’s dead has changed. The data’s changed significantly. Right? So when I started my business in 1999, I think I was paying $300 a megabit, no, by 2002, I was paying 70, you know, today raw average wholesale costs on bulk bandwidth are sub 10 cents per megabit.

1 (13m 3s):
Oh my God,

2 (13m 5s):
Mind you that’s. But that’s not the price that we sell to our customers app to buy lots of networks and you have to blend them together. And then you have to go fast and smart and all those other things. But yeah, all of these advances have essentially made it so that somebody can deploy a site today and have, you know, other, I’ve got a plan at 1599 and 1 99 a month that someone can go launch a tube site using mech money software, one of two Mojo’s VPs or a dedicated server. And it includes at the $200 a month, it includes support backups, the software and a couple of terabytes of storage and like 20 or 30 terabytes of monthly transfer, which is quite a lot.

2 (13m 45s):
And that’s on CDN for global delivery, not just from a server.

1 (13m 48s):
Wow. Crazy. So what forecasts, can you give them about the future of technology affecting the adult industry?

2 (13m 60s):
I think we’re, I think in the next few years, I don’t know. I don’t know what it’s going to be, or who’s going to do it, but I think we’re going to see some type of a paradigm shift in social networking. I’m not exactly sure what’s going to transpire, but I think that while that isn’t technology, like when I say CPU’s is technology, I think that that’s, what’s connecting us all is social networks. And I think we’ve seen a lot of very large social networks have so much control and be on top for a long time. So it only seems logical to me that, you know, perhaps we can expect to see something new come to popularity.

1 (14m 40s):
Oh, sure.

2 (14m 41s):
So, you know, other than that, I don’t think you’re going to really see bandwidth will continue to get a little bit more competitive, but at, but now, like you remember even on a wholesale level, like when I look at some of like, when I look at what my costs are, I’m not looking at large double dip, I’m not looking at double digit decreases and bailiff costs year over year. Now I’m actually looking at like, you know, fractions of pennies. Of course, some of these on some of these metrics

1 (15m 11s):
Get minus

2 (15m 13s):
What, what is what’s super interesting. And we saw it rear its ugly head with COVID is how completely dependent we are on some of these technology supply chains. So I can tell you right now buying and building servers right now is a bitch. And especially using what might be quote unquote latest greatest because all of the supply chains are messed up and actually everything is being priced out. So, you know, when I look at building a server and putting it online today, the relative cost is probably as much as 50% more than it might’ve been a year or two ago.

1 (15m 49s):
That’s crazy.

2 (15m 50s):
So what’s interesting is, is your servers that the servers that you’re buying, they’re not going to get any cheaper. In fact, I would tell you, honestly, they’re getting a little bit more expensive. The great news is, is that things are so fast that obviously the newer technology does more than the older technology does. So we’re sort of to a point where maybe it doesn’t matter as much, you know, people often say, well, for example, Bruce, and we don’t need to get into specifics, but I know I quoted something for you once. You’re like, well, this other web host has this newer server and it’s a little bit cheaper than what most wants to charge, but their question you really need to ask yourself when you’re looking for website and technology is what’s the end result to the customer? How fast is the patron, right? Because at some point with the technology, like, it doesn’t matter.

2 (16m 31s):
Like if you’re not loading your CPU’s up to a hundred percent, it doesn’t matter if one’s a little bit faster than the other. If that’s your demand for the server is, is never going to meet the maximum potential

1 (16m 42s):
Good things to know good things to know what are three habits you’d recommend developing to any business owner.

2 (16m 51s):
Oh gosh, Natalie, thank you for such an amazing question. Three hats, three habits. So I think on this one, I’m going to take, I’m going to take a slightly different approach. So I’m going to, I’m going to reflect on myself. Okay. So, so like what things do I need to focus on? What would be the three things that I could focus on to be a better Brad, as a, as a president for mojo host for my customers and for my employees, I think working hard and showing up and putting the time in

1 (17m 19s):

2 (17m 20s):
Number one, you know, so being diligent, I gotta be honest, you know, so 22 years in, I’ve got an option. Like I can, I can make up six o’clock in the morning and go into the office or I can enroll in at lunch, But the best part, but the best Brad, the one that’s best for his business and best for his customers is the one that understands what puts the food on his family’s table. And that’s the brand that sets us alarm somewhere in the middle to wake up at seven, to be in the office at eight 30 or nine and to have a full business day, most days, most weeks, Monday through Friday, you know, I think they, everyone needs to take vacations because that’s healthy. But I think, I think staying,

1 (17m 59s):
And you’re finally doing that by the way. And you, you remember the email that I sent you about that?

2 (18m 6s):
Yeah. So in terms, so in terms of habits, I think staying, I think staying diligent and actually, and actually questioning oneself, like, am I working hard or am I just doing the things that I want to do in passing time? Because I can, I can show up at the office and be there for six, seven or eight hours and not necessarily challenged myself, but I’ll tell you what the, the days that I feel best when I get home after, after work at whatever time that is, are the days when I did stuff that I really didn’t enjoy doing.

1 (18m 35s):
I tried

2 (18m 36s):
To talk to my teenagers about this, like do stuff that you don’t like and do it often, because I think that that builds character and that feels rewards

1 (18m 42s):
Solutely absolutely.

2 (18m 45s):
So that’s one habit. What’s another habit

1 (18m 48s):
Days like that. I days like that. I usually have a scotch at night, by the way. But anyway, go ahead.

2 (18m 53s):
Yeah. For me, for me, something else, I would challenge myself to do better in 2022 is be smart and fail or quit things sooner. Hmm. Have those hard conversations. So when I reflect on my, on my business ownership the last 20 years, and I’m not necessarily the best manager of people, so I’ve tried to set things up now. So I don’t have a lot of direct reports, right. So I’ve got a really wonderful management team and they do a lot of that day to day management and deploying a lot of those hard decisions. But one of the things that I would challenge myself to is, is following my gut. And when I hit, when I instinctively know that there are things I need to action on in my business, hard decisions that I need to make to force me to do it and to not put my head in the sand and delayed the decision.

2 (19m 40s):
Yeah. So, you know, without giving any specific examples, I would generally say like at each moment in time, over the course of my company, when, when an employee wasn’t working out, I usually knew long before then. And for me that often met and from, and for me that often meant try to help them help themselves or try to find a resolution to something that just maybe wasn’t meant to be

1 (20m 4s):
Brad. You’re a nice guy. I could imagine how hard it is for you to fire someone. In fact, I, I know that for a fact. So I remember one instance. So anyway,

2 (20m 13s):
Well, none of that, but besides that

1 (20m 17s):
With, without, without getting to any specific,

2 (20m 21s):
I mean, there, there has been, there’s been many, many over the years, so I don’t just reflect on one. There’s been many, there’s been many of those. In fact, in fact, every single, every single salesperson I’ve ever let go, and there’s been a whole handful of them has been, it has been a very, very difficult choice. And sometimes it’s just, you know, the opportunity isn’t right. For somebody with where they’re at in life in life, or it’s just not the right match. And so it’s often my experience that as much as I might labor over this, like they also knew the whole time. So I’ve been punishing myself. So it’s just easier to just be, be a man about it and kind of have that conversation. The other thing I would say is, I think similar to that would be maybe the third thing is killing new business ideas that don’t get traction.

2 (21m 10s):
They take away from your mental energy to keep you off focus. You’ve got your core business. It’s what you’re best at. You know, some of us business owners ever get one breakout success and I’m a very much a visionary and I have lots of ideas all the time, but there, there are many things over the years that I’ve done and I’ve failed at and I held onto it for too long, for pride or for hope or, you know, something magical that clearly was never going to happen in that instance. And in all those instances, I wish I would have killed them sooner. Yeah.

1 (21m 42s):
So what would you call the pillars of a business, which require the most attention and are usually under appreciated?

2 (21m 51s):
Jeez, what a question. Pillars of business where the most attention, I mean the liveness test for me and my business is understanding my customer experience. And you don’t really know that unless you talk to your customers or you inspect your, your staff and your employees work, or the quality of the service you’re providing to actually have that customer experience. Like, so it’s part, it’s my it’s in my nature to be very empathetic, right. So I’ve always had that sort of as a strong suit for me and being able to evaluate mojo host client experiences. But, but I think it’s, it’s very easy to be a manager or an operator in a business and be too detached from your customer’s experience.

1 (22m 38s):

2 (22m 39s):
I think it’s, I think it’s also, you know, in a good organization, you’re empowering your people and those people that are working so hard for you. They’re trying to take things away from you because they’re supposed to, that means everything’s going right. Right. Yeah. But really what’s also supposed to happen is as a business owner operator at all of these levels, whether it’s me or it’s, it’s someone that, you know, my vice president or, you know, one of the other VPs or managers, like, you need to get your hands dirty. Like you need to work, you need to engage with the clients. You need to like surf the website. You need to go look at things. You need to go. You know, like I get very, you know, we have like a once a month, all hands on staff meeting, right?

2 (23m 20s):
So there’s 40, almost 40 people on the call every time, you know, everyone, that’s a systems, administrator, everybody, a management billing, and we are largely a technical organization. So a lot of that costs upwards of 40 people, I would say like 35 or technical. Right. And then you’ve got like, you know, me a biller, you know, a VP of finance and you know, Natalie and sales and Jack, but everyone else’s is super, super technical, but yup. It’s important to make sure that when people have problems that you’re dialed into that, like you have to, you have to, you have to know about it.

2 (24m 0s):
Like you have to make sure that like, that news gets passed up to you. Like, I have a lot of friends, tons of friends, like dozens, maybe even hundreds of friends that are, I would say more than hundreds of friends, of course that our customers. And I always say the same things in my phone calls. Like I hear a lot of times I’ll like, everything’s wonderful. Your staff is great. Like the support is really, really good. And I’m so happy about that, but I always make sure in every one of these conversations, when someone’s giving us a compliment, I remind them. And I say, you know, when you eventually have that day, when something isn’t going the way that you think or thought it should, or you don’t know if that’s how that’s supposed to go, I want you to call me or message me Personally to tell me yes, because it’s hard because a lot of times what happens is people don’t want to bother you.

2 (24m 43s):
Like everyone, that seems just like you, that I’m too busy that I can’t hear it, or don’t want to hear it or that

1 (24m 49s):
I never assume you’re too busy,

2 (24m 52s):
But a lot of people do or, or, you know, there’s a mutual respect in your friends and they feel like they’re afraid to bother you. And they don’t want it to be a nag. Cause they generally like things. But I always try to encourage people the other way. Like that’s how we make, that’s how we stay really, really good at our business. Cause it’s only when people raise a red flag and say like, Hey, was this really supposed to happen that way? Or you know, let’s talk about this. Like that’s, how

1 (25m 15s):
Can you improve? How can you improve otherwise? Right.

2 (25m 19s):
Sure. Of course. And we have a very complex deliverable. So we need that feedback. Like, and sometimes you need a common sense approach to going and reviewing someone, someone could have a support ticket with a hundred threaded responses in it. And it might have one, two or five system administrators that have been in there. And sometimes what needs to happen is either me or my vice president or the VP of support and operations. Like someone needs to go and look at this whole thread and read it, like they’re the customer So that we can judge ourselves and say like, okay, like where did we go wrong in this? Or what could we have done better? Or why wasn’t this escalated? Like, like there was a problem.

2 (25m 60s):
Something got pushed back. And then, you know, like I want to know when someone’s having a bad experience because I also want to be the guy that reaches out and says, Hey, I’m really sorry. We made a mistake. We’ve looked at this. We understand how we did it. And we’re going to do better next time. And I’m going to go put a credit on your account.

1 (26m 18s):
That’s why, that’s why you guys have the reputation. You have Brian, you know, The company is you, you are the company. I mean that’s, and I know you take that. I know you take that serious.

2 (26m 32s):
I’m hoping to build, I think it’s, I take it seriously, but we, to be honest, like the, really the core value is that like that, that whole that’s good mojo slogan that we’ve got. I think, I think we’ve really built an hired and fired a team that, that webs by that my, my goal is to make it so that while I’m synonymous with the brand and maybe I don’t always want to be, or maybe I would like it to be bigger than that. So

1 (26m 58s):
Of course, but still, but still people know you care and that’s, that’s the important thing. Okay. I got a question for you. Does profit always equal success?

2 (27m 11s):

1 (27m 12s):

2 (27m 13s):
Sometimes you make money and you don’t feel good about it.

1 (27m 16s):

2 (27m 17s):
About how you earned it. And I wouldn’t say that that’s the case. I wouldn’t necessarily say that that’s the case, the motor hosts, but like in reflecting, right? Like I’m, it depends. The question is what, what does success mean to you? Right. Like that’s really the question. The question is, is

1 (27m 33s):
Yeah. What does, what does success mean to you? Let’s go there.

2 (27m 36s):
Well, to me it means a lot of different things. I mean, and at the root of it, I want to feel proud of what I do as much as I can. And you know, I’m still an employer and you know, a lot of the jobs that, that my employees do, just like some of the things that even that I do on a regular basis, some of them are pretty mundane and repetitive. It’s not always the most exciting thing, but for me, for me, success, like even if my personal income hasn’t grown in the last couple of years, I guess I’m not measuring it on pure profit. Right. Cause if it was on profit, right then I will be measuring what’s Brad’s bottom line. What did he take home? 2021, 2020, 2019. And I’m going to tell you, Bruce, I haven’t, while I’ve grown my business, each one of those years by double digits, I haven’t actually made more money.

1 (28m 21s):
Oh, you’re putting it back. You’re putting it

2 (28m 23s):
Back and putting, I’ve been putting it back in, but, but how, how do I feel like I’m still successful? So I gave, I judged that for myself and for Moja hosts first are my customers happy? So I believe the answer to that is yes. Yep. Second are my employees happy? And am I taking the best care of them? And you know, you have to make a lot of choices as an employer about how you take care of your employees. Like emoji hosts. We’ve more, we’ve more or less gotten to a place right now where there’s a limited paid time off, You know? And no, it’s not documented exactly like that in the handbook, but I make these exceptions all the time. And I always have, you know, especially with COVID and everything else and Burbank and people getting sick and ill.

2 (29m 8s):
Like I went and especially at the start of the pandemic, you know, I raised, there’s just been a lot of exceptions for employment that we’ve made. And, but it’s important to me because you know what I, I guess like secretly somewhere inside, like, you know, I want to be the guy that makes them that makes the most money and crazy successful, personal fortune. Like that would be awesome. And I, I truly believe with more hard work and what I’m doing, getting smarter and better at it, then someday I’ll see fruition of that. But what makes me feel good is that I take great care of my employees as good as I can for them. And that for them and their families, whether it’s they need a loan for something, whether it’s, they need more paid time off than they’re supposed to have based on their tenure at the company, whether it’s the decisions I make from linear to the next, on which blue cross blue shield plan we’re buying for everybody.

2 (29m 59s):
Like we have, I think probably I’m not going to say probably I would say almost certainly, probably, and probably most certainly in the adult industry, but probably by comparison to any other enterprise organization. Like I have the richest healthcare benefit that’s out there. So it is the most expensive blue cross plan. And that has the lowest deductible and it has full vision and full dental. And I don’t just buy that fully for my employee. I buy that for any spouses and dependents for their spouse and all of their dependents and they contribute nothing towards the premium. So that means for me, when I hire somebody that’s married and has a family of four that that’s 20 to $25,000 a year that we’re paying for that.

2 (30m 39s):
But you know what I, why I do that because the same fucking thing I want for my family, because no matter where they are, whether they’re making 60,000 a year for me, or a hundred thousand or $150,000, I want to make sure that when it comes to their health and their care and the care of everyone, that’s important to them and their nuclear family, that they can have access to whatever they need. And obviously healthcare is very complicated in the United States. And if you look at the statistics, you would see that most banks, most bankruptcies are actually healthcare related. And so

1 (31m 13s):
I was telling you, I was telling you before our interview about that Andrew Yang book that I’m reading and it was, it was citing that statistic though, what I read just last night.

2 (31m 23s):
Yeah. I mean, very, very sad. So, you know, how do I define success? I look for, I look to see, am I having personal growth, my challenged by the work that I’m doing for my employees? You know, it didn’t use to be the case. I couldn’t have given you an honest answer eight years ago, Bruce, if you said like, is there opportunity for advancement at mojo host? And we were talking about a system administrator level employee, I probably would have said yes, but I don’t know if it would have been true. Maybe even back then I would have thought it was true, but it has become true because we finally brought that to fruition with, with James that manages my business, my vice president. So now we have all kinds of opportunity for, for, for employees to advance, not just with their pay, but in their job and their skills and the responsibilities.

2 (32m 10s):
You know, the last few years we’ve been secretly building new products and new technologies and we have all kinds of stuff that’s already happened and going to be happening in the near future. You know, so there’s a whole dev ops team. Now there’s a whole management tier of systems administrator to manage the different shifts for systems administration, right. And those, and those, all of those, all of these employees were promoted from those initially grinding jobs of, you know, systems administration, even in the systems administration, like the support ticket we’ve, we’ve taken the whole, what is support at mojo host and divided that out? You know, we have a network operations team now we’ve got, we have a team now that actually all they do is manage the monitoring and a words for all of your servers and services.

2 (32m 53s):
Wow. And we’ve got, you know, the team for provisioning and then we have, you know, the general support queue and then we have an escalations thing. So

1 (33m 1s):
Come a long way, man, definitely come a long way. You know, what’s interesting. You were talking about, you know, the paid leave. I’ll tell you the opposite of that. A guy that I know was working at a hotel part of a hotel chain and the worst possible thing you could imagine happened, his girlfriend diet in bed, sleeping next to him. Do you know what the hotel said? You don’t get any time off work. So That’s what you’re competing with. I mean, that’s an extreme example, but that’s what you’re competing with is companies that just don’t give a damn about their employees.

2 (33m 42s):
Sure. And I think one of the inherent challenges to scaling any type of company is how do you actually manage to happiness and manage to unusual situations as an organization gets harder? So I expect that that will continue to be a challenge, right? So my challenge with 40 employees is very different than some of my friends companies that have two or 300 employees and very different from companies that have 1,005 thousand or a hundred thousand employees. But, you know, if given the chance and the opportunity, I would love to be the CEO someday of that company that has 10 or 20,000 employees and say, you know what, we’re fucking awesome at that too.

1 (34m 23s):
Yeah. Yeah. You try to do that without losing control. That’s the only problem.

2 (34m 30s):
Well, the only way to move forward is to give up control. But I think, you know, as I said earlier, you really have to inspect what you expect out of all tiers of your business, including all the way down to the customer or even the customer’s customer experience. One of the things that people would never ever guess we’ve put our, our physical network, like how we connect to the internet through so many different phone companies. We’ve put this together in such an awesome way. And we don’t talk a lot about that because most of the time when we’re talking about posting, you know, people don’t really want to get to get into the weeds of how it is. We build things the way that we do. But the truth of it is I have a network operations team that’s so fucking good at what they do.

2 (35m 13s):
And we deploy such good technology and make such good choices about where we buy from and how we blend bandwidth. That I can have one of my $250 a month elevated acts, complete managed, hosting, special clients that, you know, basically your typical pay site, entry-level pay site owner that has a server for Moja host and elevated Xs or CMS. I can have one of those guys have a member that has a problem with a video buffering, and we can escalate that all the way to my network support team to troubleshoot that guy’s home router and we’ve done. And we have, yeah, it isn’t the same, but the only reason we can, we can do that is because we made all the right choices that all the higher layers of the network and deployed all the right technologies and investments.

2 (36m 2s):
What most people don’t know is most hosts deploy what’s effectively called least cost routing solutions. So we have extra, we have some extra special technology in play that most hosts do not deploy because it comes at quite a premium, but it actually is inspecting all of the traffic that enters and exits our network. And then, and then searches the whole internet to look for ways to reduce latency. Like if I can reduce latency by more than five milliseconds to any destination in the world, my network will do that.

1 (36m 35s):
That’s all.

2 (36m 36s):
So we grabbed this regardless of cost. We’ll even take traffic off of free network hearing to do it.

1 (36m 41s):
So what do you want to accomplish in the balance of this year? 2022?

2 (36m 47s):
The balance of this year, 2021, or what’s my new year’s resolution for next year.

1 (36m 52s):
Oh, see it. You just, you just blew it, man. Cause we’re doing this in December and it’s going to run in January. That’s okay. Everyone blow, everyone blows it at some. Everyone blows it at some point, so, okay.

2 (37m 4s):
I’ll give you both answers.

1 (37m 7s):
No. Just tell, just tell me what you want to accomplish. Business-wise in 2022,

2 (37m 13s):
I want to increase profits, Bruce.

1 (37m 15s):

2 (37m 16s):
I have a data center that I’ve invested so many, many millions of dollars to build. I have 900 unsold servers waiting there for me to sell. Wow, I’ve got 20, 30 petabytes of storage sitting there on pallets, waiting to be wrapped. I’ve got all this stuff that I either already own, or I’m already making payments on. And magically mysteriously wonderfully Moja host has grown enough where I’m not running in the ride. We’re still doing all right. I’ve just, instead of, instead of paying myself more, the last couple of years, we’ve invested in all of these different things. So I’m really looking forward to 2022, sort of bringing the cattle home and, and seeing through what my vision of all of this has been and, and selling new service inside of our new data center.

2 (38m 8s):
And so

1 (38m 12s):

2 (38m 12s):
Been a boon.

1 (38m 15s):
No, but he will be glad you,

2 (38m 17s):
We talked about all this. Well, we, you know, we talked earlier in the interview though, about what are some of the mistakes that business owners make or what advice would you give? You know, so I’ve been, I’ve been trying to run this very delicate balance of making sure that I’m not over-investing or overleveraging that we can actually afford. Like all of these are calculate our calculated risks based on return, but the great news, but the great news is my whole team is very focused and we’re really ready for the new year with all of these new products and services. And so, you know, I’m hopeful that it’s the case that next year we can, we can focus on selling into all of these great new assets that we have.

2 (39m 1s):
And if we do that, the way that I expect that we can, that should hopefully show some, some good profit from that.

1 (39m 9s):
I hope so for your sake. Well, Brad, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll chant who will have a chance to do this again really soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable. For one, you decide to sell it later, keep your website design up to date, do a redesign from time to time, people will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success.

1 (39m 50s):
If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’re going to end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well on the others? Don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes.

1 (40m 31s):
People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet the competitors clearly doing everything better, emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all of your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’re going to lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for. If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all of your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Dominic Ford of just for fans.

1 (41m 21s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Brad Mitchell of Mojohost. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Brad Mitchell of Mojohost.

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1 (1m 39s):
This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages. Google has placed the websites in good search positions. There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic because the owner would like a fast sale, he’s instructed us to slash the price from the previous $595,000 to only $165,000.

1 (2m 30s):
Now time for this week’s interview my guest today and adult site broker talk, once again is Brad Mitchell. Brad, thanks for being back with us today on adult site broker talk.

2 (2m 40s):
Hi Bruce. It’s my pleasure. Happy to be back. Thank you for having me

1 (2m 43s):
Glad to have you. Now, if you’re in our industry, you no doubt know about Brad and mojo host. Mojo host is a leading company in hosting adult website. Brad is certainly an icon in the adult internet industry. You’ll see Brad at virtually every single adult event. Now mojo host prides themselves on great customer service and technical support. They’re based in Detroit, Michigan, and have data centers in Miami and Amsterdam. They take pride in 99.9, nine, nine a lot, a few more nines, I think, percent uptime and put in the work to make it possible. Mojo host is a self-funded company that’s been profitable for more than 15 years.

1 (3m 25s):
Did I miss anything there? Brad has anything updated since we last talked?

2 (3m 30s):
Yes, Bruce. This is our 22nd year in business and we have a new data center that we’ve built in Detroit, Michigan. So those are, are those. Those would be the updates to that. So,

1 (3m 41s):
Okay. Well how are things going at the new, not the new data center?

2 (3m 45s):
Things are good. It’s been really quite the endeavor. So two years ago, I started on the concept and design and started constructing our own wholly owned data center. And we’re, we’re seeing that come to fruition now, as we, as we end in 2021 and enter into 2022, so I’m super excited. It’s been quite honestly, it’s the largest investment of my life. We’ve built a gorgeous data center. That’s many, many, many times redundant on all different systems of power and air conditioning and all different types of networking. I’m excited for that. And we’ve got big things in store.

1 (4m 26s):
You gotta be pretty proud of where you’ve come when you, when you walk in the doors of that new place.

2 (4m 33s):
I am actually. And, you know, I I’d say I, I pinched myself each time I walk in the office, you know, it’s, there’s a lot of data centers out there and we’ve been fortunate that I’ve chosen good data centers for mojo host all the years that we’ve been in business. It really helps us to provide the best level of care and service to our clients. But in having the ability, the opportunity to design our own data center, I then got to make all of those specific choices with my team and all of the experts and consultants that I could hire about how we would build and deploy our own space to serve our needs. And so, you know, I’m very proud of that. And then, you know, as part of that, it’s not just a, it’s more than a multi-million dollar investment.

2 (5m 17s):
I think, you know, at the end of it, you know, for what I would say is a very modestly sized data center at a megawatt and a half, the total construction, it’s about $6 million to, and as a part of that, I’ve really taken very special care. And I’m not just all of the most important things, which are keeping everything fast and online and, and super redundant for all of the different critical systems that you would expect in a data center, but also in the design elements that I think brings some extra special character to the mojo host facility that, that you won’t see anywhere else. And so, you know, maybe, maybe some of that’s not so important, but, you know, I had this moment when I was doing the design where I really decided that I wanted to go, you know, a couple of extra steps, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars more to have glass walls that look into all of the data centers to have, you know, locking rolling steel doors that roll down down behind all of them, for security to have, you know, mosaics on the wall and, you know, the very interesting epoxy floors.

2 (6m 25s):
And, you know, we have even a wall at the data center inside of our office space. That’s adjacent to it, which is made from recycled motherboards, from servers that we decommissioned in Miami, which is pretty cool because, you know, they’ve still got all of the Intel CPU’s and the copper heat syncs on there, but we’re very, we’re very proud of the deployment. And I, I think that our customers would be proud to be our customer being hosted in the site.

1 (6m 50s):
You’ve got to maybe a host an event in Detroit one of these days, so people can take a tour.

2 (6m 58s):
Yeah. We’re certainly looking forward to that. I think, I think we’ll be cutting our teeth and ready to be show ready, so to speak by the end of first quarter. So cool. I look, I very, I very much look forward to doing a lot of video, have, you know, having people out to the site, but also doing some really comprehensive videos and explaining the technology and the infrastructure we’ve gone above and beyond to make it extremely green and extraordinarily redundant, you know, in every different respect. So I’m, I’m excited to finally be able to see myself and to show others what what’s been my passion for the last two years.

1 (7m 37s):
Yeah. I, I, this would be a worth a trip from Thailand to go check it out, man. I may just have to do that. So what are some things that you’ve obviously, you know, I mean, from where you started, you know, one man operation to, to where you’ve come, you’ve obviously been very successful. What are some things that companies with longevity focus on to stay on top and the adult industry?

2 (8m 6s):
So I think the answer to this question might be, would be of course, different with each owner that you may interview. But for me, I think probably my top three answers to that question. The first one would be my main focus is always to make sure that we have an excellent product. So a lot of people, a lot, especially a lot of business owners are dreamers, right? So as a business owner, you’ve got the choose your own adventure every day that you go into the office and each year that you’re running your business. But I think being mindful of what’s your core deliverable, what’s your core product and making sure that your product is good for the customer always is, is of paramount importance.

2 (8m 49s):
Because at the end of, at the end of the day, I guess I would say in the 22 years that I’ve been in the industry where I’ve seen a lot of company owners fail has been when they’ve taken their eyes off of the price, that one core thing, which they were so good at, whether it was from luck or timing or skill or prowess To go and do other ventures, it’s easy to lose oneself. You know, another thing that I think is very important is integrity.

1 (9m 22s):

2 (9m 23s):
So I think I’ve integrity. And I think, you know, I don’t know if I want to say it’s a couple of different things, but integrity and humility. You know, I, I think a lot of, a lot of us when we started our business, everyone starts from zero. Everyone starts with some humble roots of, they’ve got an idea. And most of us, if not all of us start with, you know, we have no money and no backing and we’ve just got time and sweat and equity in our business to go and to build a brand. And I think sometimes people over many diff over a longer span of years can kind of lose themselves in terms of how they relate to other people.

2 (10m 4s):
So I think it’s very important to maintain a sense of humility, to always be a good listener to everyone that’s around you.

1 (10m 12s):
I’m sorry. What did you say? That was a joke.

2 (10m 17s):
I think, I think being a good listener, I think having good integrity, being honest, you know, I, I, Bruce, you’ve talked to thousands of people just like I have over the years. And I’m proud to say that I think you would be hard pressed to find somebody that says that I’ve wronged them in any business fashion. I personal past,

1 (10m 34s):
I haven’t, I can’t find anybody that doesn’t like you, so that’s a good, that’s a good thing.

2 (10m 42s):
There must be, there must be a couple out there, but you know, at the end of the day, I think, I think to be in business for the long-term, you have to do all of those things. And then you also have to be mindful of the future and you have to be smart with your money and you need to be strategic about how you invest or reinvest into your business, because the truth of it is no business that has any longevity has, has accomplished this without continue continual reinvention and reinvestment. I think, you know, on every three to five-year cycle, there there’s a turn, you know, turn and in the market or in business. And it’s important that you’re mindful and looking ahead and making plans and investments, so that you’re ready for the next thing, because it’s usually the case that if you’re not growing, you’re dying.

2 (11m 28s):
Right. So, so keeping all of these things in mind, I think is how an action is how somebody would, could experience longevity.

1 (11m 41s):
So what industry sectors have the most potential right now and why?

2 (11m 46s):
Great question. So I’m still a dreamer and I love seeing and hearing new ideas from, from people that have experienced and have no experience. And sometimes they’re, they’re equally interesting on both sides because when you open yourself up and you’re, you have conversations with people that, that haven’t even done business in our business yet, and they have some ideas it’s really great because you get sort of an unfiltered opinion. And so I think it’s always great to see because I don’t necessarily know who’s got the next great idea. I don’t think any of us do know necessarily, you know, you don’t kind of know until you’ve seen it, sometimes it’s already happened and you’re like, damn, that was really good.

2 (12m 34s):
That was, that was great timing. That was a great idea. And

1 (12m 37s):
Can we thought of like only fans or something like that? Right.

2 (12m 40s):
I mean, and I think, you know, a lot of us have had great ideas and maybe we didn’t bring them to market and we kick ourselves. But so I think, you know, most potential, I think certainly the new ideas, maybe the ones we don’t know about yet. So I think it’s always good to be paying attention to trends and watching how people are interacting, how people are buying and consuming entertainment, because at the end of the day, that’s what, that’s what, that’s what this is. This is adult entertainment and it’s connection, you know? So, but in terms of what is the most potential right now, I think none of us could have an argument against clip sites and live cams. You know, th the platforms that have been developed and launched, which allow performers of any maturity, you know, an experience to sort of self publish, you know, and collect like these platforms, they allow people to publish their content and, you know, collect revenue.

2 (13m 37s):
And I think that those, those are currently the most relevant, obviously that the history of the past of adult entertainment has been a lot of subscription-based services. And I think what’s different now with how people are consuming content is it’s much more dynamic. I think there’s certainly an still an incredible future and subscription-based services, you know, and those who, even for those independent and platform-based performers who are producing content and have subscribers to their channels, you know, they very quickly learned that you have to be interesting and you have to always be, you have to actually work really hard, you know, to produce interesting content to mean to get subscribers.

2 (14m 21s):
And then to be interesting enough to continue to experience growth. I think also it’s certainly the case that live cam services are extraordinarily compelling and both on both sides of the house, both on the Quip site side and on the live cam site side, you’ve got a lot of mature businesses that are doing a lot of volumes of dollars. As we, as we now know, it’s billions of dollars, you know, both sides, cams, and clips. And I think we see platforms innovating that are also finding a way to mesh the two cams and clips. You know, like I know that this is certainly the case, you know, with only fans with many bids with, I want clips with clips for sale, you know, these are all awesome platforms.

2 (15m 12s):
And with, as with anything else, I think that that means that there’s opportunity for, for growth, right? So the question is if someone was going to come to market and bring a new product and they wanted to do what say live Jasmine is doing, or what only fans is doing, they have to have an angle, or they have to have something new that they bring to the table. They have to have something better than just offering a larger share of the revenue to their performer, because at the end of the day, it’s the consumers that are making that choice voting with their dollars.

1 (15m 45s):

2 (15m 46s):
So it’s, they really, they’re going to have to be able to make everybody happy and to leverage technology and do so in a, in a smart and wise way. And so I think that there’s, you know, it’s, it’s a big internet and I’m, I’m constantly amazed even with, you know, the stable of clients that we’ve got. And right now, mojo hosts serves, I think around 1400 different companies wow. In the space. And it’s a lot. So we’re serving, you know, the whole, the whole gamut of everyone’s different ideas, whether it’s, you know, everything from review sites, to advertising networks, to campsites, to quit platforms, to traditional pay site programs, we host all of that. And to be honest, I see, I see customers and all different parts of this succeeding.

2 (16m 33s):
So, you know, work hard, have a good idea, and that doesn’t guarantee success. But I think the, you know, I think we’re continuing to see growth in this and this explosion of platforms that allow creators to be innovative and, and to self publish.

1 (16m 51s):
So I

2 (16m 51s):
Think, I think we’re going to continue to see more of that,

1 (16m 54s):
You know, and in the process and you alluded to this, you’re going to see a lot of people pop up and doing, as they like to say here in Thailand, the same, same. I love that saying, oh, it’s so hot. So what is this, what does this mean? What does this product do? Same, same. And you saw that a lot with pay sites. And a lot of them have failed because they didn’t try to innovate. They didn’t try to do anything different and it’s really no different than any mainstream business. Right?

2 (17m 28s):
Sure. I mean, sometimes same, same can be good business. I mean, as a hosting company, I look at Amazon’s AWS and I think, heck if I could be same, same, well, you know, and get some fraction of 1% of those tens of billions of dollars in cloud sales. Yeah. That would be a pretty great business, right? Yes,

1 (17m 47s):
Yes. Yeah. But yeah, I see a lot of people, they want to start a clip site. They want to start a fan site. They want to start a campsite. I see this through my general consulting company. And the question I always ask them is how are you going to be different? What are you going to do? That’s going to get a customer away from Ana and also a, a performer away from only fans away from live Jasmine and a good deal of the time. They don’t have an answer.

2 (18m 22s):

1 (18m 23s):
So that’s a problem. That’s a problem.

2 (18m 26s):
Yeah. That’s always, that’s always going to be a, be a fundamental challenge. I mean, one of the things, when I, when I get to have conversations with new business owners and they’re looking for some guidance and, you know, a lot of times you’re trying to pre-qualify somebody or challenge them to ask them, what are they going to do? And I guess a lot of times when I find myself in conversations, they’re telling me what they’re going to do. And I’m just trying to add a little bit of guidance. You know, one of the things I think that helps business owners to be more successful is to truly believe in their product and be passionate about what they’re doing.

1 (18m 58s):

2 (18m 58s):
You know, I think the best example of that is I want clips. So, you know, that’s an excellent platform. And one of the things that they’ve focused focused on is, you know, a lot of different fetishes and catering to a lot of, you know, BDSM and other types of content in that market. And I think Kevin, you know, I think if the owners and the operators of a site have an eye or have an interest, or really understand something better rather than trying to be a generalist or just launching a platform and not having something that they feel like they can do better. You know, I think if you’re able to, with any fetish interests or, or segment of our industry, I think if, I think when you’re able to bring people together with a sense of community and drive based on that, and just be the even, you know, if you can just be the best at doing even one of these markets and not, not try to do everything for everybody, if you can just be very, very good at one thing that I think that that can be a knockout success.

1 (20m 7s):
Absolutely. So what are some common mistakes that newcomers often make that may harm their new business?

2 (20m 16s):
Well, it’s never easy starting a new business.

1 (20m 19s):

2 (20m 19s):
You’ve got everything against you and nothing but an uphill battle. Right? So when people are starting a new business online, they have, they have no traffic, they have no software, they have no content. They have no merchant processing. They’ve really got nothing, but they have an idea, right? So, you know, common mistakes, I think sort of a broad question, but I think there’s, there’s lots of potential pitfalls. I think sometimes seeking guidance from people who aren’t qualified to advise them that can be a common mistake, right? So like anybody that’s seeking to start a new business and they’re getting counsel from somebody, they should absolutely ask the right questions and ask around to try to vet them and try to understand what is their history of experience that they can be giving me advice.

3 (21m 3s):

2 (21m 5s):
I think that people that start a business need to have a clear vision for what they are willing to invest and or lose and be very committed to that and not necessarily to losing money, but, but to understanding that it’s not field of dreams, like even if you’re able to design and create a product, that doesn’t mean that once it is online and I can go surf your website and buy something that you’re going to be instantly successful. I think a lot of people run out of steam before they’ve even hit stride or even figured out how to market.

1 (21m 41s):
I don’t. I know, I hear, I hear some people I hear from people that say, I’ve got this totally developed website and it’s great, and I want to sell it. And it hasn’t even either hasn’t launched or it launched a month ago because they’re already tired of it.

2 (21m 60s):
I mean, my comment on that would be sent, send me people that have failed because of someone’s someone’s, if someone’s got a truly unique code base where they, that they own it and they’ve done the development and the product works and it’s actually programmed right. Then maybe there’s some residual value in that. But certainly, certainly, certainly custom programming is hard. It’s a very hard, I it’s almost like the, the rabbit hole in Alice, in Wonderland because you really have to be working. You have to know what you want. You have to have a good business strategy. I think a good business strategy brings you online in stages. And the first of those is maybe like, you know, a minimum viable product, But you’ve got to be able to get to the finish line, like

1 (22m 47s):

2 (22m 48s):
And you have to, you have to be working with trusted programmers and you have to get your deliverables. I’ve talked to so many people, so many business owners over the years who have spent tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in programming and never ended up with finished code. One of the things I would always recommend to people is that you separate your hosting from your programming resources. So of course your programmers and your custom developers are going to have opinions about where you host. But I would tell you that it’s in the best interests of your new business to have multiple people working for you, each of them with their own fiduciary responsibility. So for example, if someone like, if someone was to come to me and say, Hey, Brad, I’ve got this idea.

2 (23m 29s):
And I know that this idea is complicated and it might take one or more programmers. I might recommend say, Kwan tox, for example, who has lots of resources and available programmers. And I know that VUCA and his company, they work hard and they get jobs done. And I’ve got lots of mojo hosts customers who are happy using them who have built whole platforms. Right?

1 (23m 49s):
Yeah. They’ve done a lot of work for me too. And oh, I believe in them, you know, a thousand percent

2 (23m 56s):
Sure. But it’s important that I’ve also seen other situations where somebody is using an individual program. That’s not part of a larger organization, or maybe it doesn’t have a reputation at all because maybe they’ve never even developed, but they’re essentially working for this client and that is their job and their sole income. And when things go south, if a programmer and a business owner don’t see eye to eye, sometimes it’s the case that the business is held hostage for the code. You don’t even have the code. They don’t even have the code that they want yet. So who can help you in that situation? Well, if you were at the right kind of a web host that can lock it down and you have the right types of design and implementation, then those are the kinds of situations that, you know, hosts can help guide you into an, a hole in a host and understands how to actually manage someone’s platform.

2 (24m 49s):
Like what it’s gonna look like in a real world environment can take a look at how queries are written and how things are structured and how pages are loading and tell you whether or not your programmers and their markup, whether it’s done right, or it’s done wrong, or it’s efficient, or it’s inefficient, they can give you this kind of feedback. And if the host is good at what they’re doing, you’re not even having to pay for it. Maybe you’ve got a 50 or a hundred dollars VPs with them, or maybe you’re spending a few hundred dollars a month on a dev server. You know, I mean, you’ve got support and backups and things like that, but this is, this is where someone that starts a business, they can leverage that expertise and they can do it at no cost. So yeah, I think not having, not having multiple people, giving you feedback on your new business idea, I think that can definitely be a pitfall.

2 (25m 36s):
And at the end of the day after you’ve got a product designed, you need to be able to traffic it. And your first traffic bias, not your biggest traffic by your first traffic bias, making sure that shit works. And then, and then you’re working to see if you can convert. And then after that, you’re working to see if you can retain. And then after that, then you really need to start spending money to start advertising. So

1 (26m 1s):
Yeah, I see so many people, they just throw a bunch of money at traffic and they go, oh, buying traffic doesn’t work, no buying traffic works, but you need to test, test, test, test. Oh. And by the way, what you mentioned about programmers, I mean, we’ve all, we’ve all had that problem. I I’ve had that problem, my first program, or ran away with my money. And I had another bad experience with a guy and went to Kwon talks and I never had a problem again. So in fact, I had problems with every program or I ever had until I went to Kwan talks. So going to a big company that has lots of resources and you know, your guy’s not going to go away at so important.

1 (26m 44s):
I, I respect individual programmers and all, but I know it’s risky. It’s risky, man. It’s just,

2 (26m 54s):
There’s a lot of wonderful ones out there. I think, I think if someone starting a new business and they’re going to go down that path, I think that they need a consort. I think that they need a few different people that they’re talking to. So that, that way they can develop a strategy.

1 (27m 7s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. So what would you recommend to someone looking to launch an adult industry project?

2 (27m 16s):
Well, before COVID, I would have one of the recommendations. So I’ve, I’ve had this question put to me before. I remember talking to somebody a few years ago and you know, he was just ready to spend a bunch of money. And I said, you know what? You really need to take the time out from the other business that you own and you need to come and attend one of the industry conferences you need to go and you need to be a student. And if you want to shadow me just to meet a lot of people, you know, and, and learn some stuff, but you need to go there and you need to be a student. Yes. Because you don’t know what you don’t know. And I think that you need a broader understanding of what’s going on for the whole ecosystem of how all of these things work together. Everything from the billing companies, the cam companies, the traffic companies, you know, the technology side of things to form some opinions, but really just to understand how, how the world turns that, and you know, it used to be, you know, I think that podcasts, like what you have, I think information that’s online.

2 (28m 14s):
I tell everybody to go join experts.net. So, you know, there’s a community online and you can, you can meet people and read threads and you can ignore what you don’t want to read. And, you know, the same is certainly the case also with GF, why, while there is other stuff in there, there is also tidbits of business information. And you know, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of stuff out there, but basically I think when someone’s starting a new business, like they need to really commit to it and they, they should be a student. They need to slow their roll. They don’t know everything. You know, your idea probably isn’t so great that it’s going to succeed. No matter how you deploy this idea, you know, you really should take the time to, you know, be before you start spending money because once you spend it, it’s gone.

2 (28m 59s):
Yep. So

1 (29m 1s):
I say, go to, well, I would say go to a number of shows before you put in that kind of investment.

2 (29m 7s):
Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps, I mean, the other, the other thing I’m always recommending also is just a gut check on, are you really willing to put the time and effort in

1 (29m 17s):

2 (29m 18s):
Are you really, are you really willing to work? Because I also see not, I see other people with ideas that, you know, they have a large pocket book. They have the money to go fund development and other stuff, but it’s very hard to start a new bit. Like if you listen, if you’ve got, if you’ve got six or seven digits to go start a new business, and that’s enough to payroll, a couple of people to actually run and operate this business, then good for you. But most of those businesses, aren’t going to succeed. Most of those new startups aren’t going to succeed. If they blow their watch too soon, they don’t deploy it successfully. Or if the actual owner isn’t really passionate about the business, because it’s very hard to hire pat, it’s very hard to hire passion, right?

2 (30m 5s):
So you can get, you can hire great employees that work hard, but it’s hard to hire, like, you know, someone that can be a visionary and an integrator, someone that can have the vision and actually do the work and be the task master. And every business needs both.

1 (30m 19s):
You’re the best evangelist for your brand. Nobody else can, nobody else can equal that. That’s my feeling.

2 (30m 28s):
Usually that’s the case.

1 (30m 31s):
That’s my feeling you actually have been been. I won’t say fortunate because you’ve been smart enough to bring in someone like Natalie who is just, you know, so passionate about your brand. I won’t, I won’t compare her passion to yours. Cause I don’t think anybody’s passion can equal yours for Mojo’s, but man, she’s, she’s getting pretty close.

2 (30m 55s):
Yeah. We’re both, we’re both very, we’re both unique and I’m very, very fortunate to have her and I’m always, I’m always looking to see, you know, she, she’s very rare, so I’m very lucky to have her on the team and we’ve been very successful together and both Natalie and I are always looking for talent out there to join our team.

1 (31m 13s):
Well, she’s, she’s, I think she’s the best hire you’ve you’ve ever made. And that I know of, I just, you know, I, I can’t, I can’t get over it.

2 (31m 26s):
I, I’m very proud of what she’s accomplished. And, and I’m also very proud of that. I think that, you know, we’ve been together several years now and I think she’s really happy with her job still. So, you know, that’s awesome.

1 (31m 39s):
Well, Brad being happy with the job, I think always has a lot to do with the guy on top and how you’re treated. And I know how you treat your employees, how well you treat your employees and how you treat your friends. And that’s how you treat your employees, how you treat your friends and it’s, it’s awesome. And that it has everything to say about it. Really.

2 (32m 4s):
Thank you.

1 (32m 5s):
Oh, you’re welcome. I mean, I mean, you, you don’t have to do things like rent a bus from, from Berlin to Prague, take everybody to lunch, you know, and, and do things like that.

2 (32m 17s):
So here’s what I

1 (32m 18s):
Remember. You know what I remember the best, by the way, you know what I remember the best and I tell people this story all the time about you remember the, remember the, the, why not show in San Francisco?

2 (32m 30s):
I do.

1 (32m 31s):
And I remember a bunch of us were downstairs and there was a gap in the show and we’re all kind of standing around networking, of course. And you went to the bar and said open the bar it’s on me. And I was just like, wow, I didn’t know you that well then. And I was just like, wow. I mean, that’s, That’s cool. Okay.

2 (32m 56s):
Well, cool. It’s interesting. Right? Because I wasn’t a very cool kid or a very cool young adult. I don’t know if I ever, if I ever found, if I ever found cool in my life, it was in my experience working with all of you, people in this industry and just doing things the hard way when I started off. And then I went to my first conference back in 2000, I was nobody from nowhere and living on credit cards as a very young 20 something year old, trying to figure out his first business and adult. And back then, there were a lot of still very cool people who made a lot of money very fast. And my humble roots just involve.

2 (33m 37s):
I mean, I don’t want to say bribing people, but hospitable, like, you know, providing a little bit of hospitality and that type of situation, but, but not just paying for the bar. So the success like you gave the example of the bus. So what I would, what I would tell you the difference between, or the similarity between that, that experience on the bus and that same experience at why not was, I don’t have a full memory of either one of those days. Like completely, my brain just doesn’t work that way, but I’m very, I’m very consistent. It’s not just that I paid a bill for something to happen. It’s that I was there doing hand-to-hand combat and making sure that everybody was taken care of and that all of their needs were met.

2 (34m 18s):
And I was probably introducing people to opportunities.

1 (34m 21s):
You even waited for Dan Leal who was oversleeping. I’ll never, I’ll never get on. He’ll never, he’ll never hear the end of that one who overslept by like an hour. And we’re like waiting on the bus and bruises and back bitching. It’s like, goddammit.

2 (34m 36s):
Yeah, well, no, no, no man. Or woman left behind, you know, one of the things I think one of the, one of the things I think I’ve taken on over the years doing such hospitality is, is trying to care for the flock. Right? So in all these different circumstances, I think it’s very important to me and, and, and certainly to make sure that everybody, you know, we have a good time. We do so many usual things, but I think it’s very important to make sure that you’re really looking out for everyone’s best interest in every circumstance, because things do get weird and sometimes they get complicated. And so, you know, we’re all human. And I think it’s, it’s, it’s good to allow for everyone to make a mistake here or there, but really just to be looking out for everybody else, which means sometimes doing hard stuff, like cutting people off at the bar and walking them back to the room and sometimes making sure they get in bed and sometimes making sure that they don’t die.

2 (35m 31s):
Like all of these things are things that have happened over the last 22 years.

1 (35m 34s):
Oh sure. Oh sure. My broker tip today has to do with what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, this will be the first in a multi-part series. First, make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic’s expensive, whether it’s search engine, traffic, review, site, traffic, or affiliate traffic, you pay it a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is you want your visitors to do in the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay in north America.

1 (36m 16s):
Most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world credit cards, aren’t used nearly as much in Europe. For instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from in Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing areas. Many people pay by mobile, do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions you get. Most of your traffic it’ll make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy, but since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t. If you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website.

1 (36m 58s):
Along with this is to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate. People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies, where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user, you poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out. Unfortunately, designers and web developers don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site next, make a good offer.

1 (37m 40s):
If you’re selling something and the offer, isn’t good. You won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you to get more information that make the offer attractive and easy to understand, if you’re selling something, make buying easy, show them an easy way to buy and then leave, help them by making suggestions on what to buy. amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this. If you can, don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images.

1 (38m 21s):
Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to do. It’s not that hard. Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through buying process like a human being, whatever you do. Don’t turn that over to your designer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is. You’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Brad Mitchell once again in part two of our interview.

1 (39m 5s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Brad Mitchell of Mojohost. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Aerie Saunders and Katy Churchill of adult model mentors. By the way, this is the 100th edition of adult site broker talk. I’d like to thank all my guests and all of our many listeners for making this possible.
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1 (1m 47s):
There were four grades of video. It will auto adapt to the best quality based on the user’s connection. Premium quality and downloads are only available to members who have a paid account. The site script can take a lot of traffic with the current server being at only a five to 10% load. There are over 30,000 videos. Retention rate is an amazing 85%, only $274,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guests today on adult side, broker talk are Arie Saunders and Katie Churchill of adult model mentors.

1 (2m 28s):
Ladies, thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk.

2 (2m 31s):
Thank you for having us. We were going to say it at the same time. I just know we were

1 (2m 37s):
Let’s try it. 1, 2, 3.

2 (2m 40s):
Thank you. Thank you for having us.

1 (2m 42s):
Yeah, it was pretty good. You got to keep working on it. Okay. So Katie Churchill has been a webcam model and independent porn producer for over eight years. She specializes in one-on-one Skype shows, fetish videos and releasing weekly videos for her fart, queens.com membership site. I got to check that one out. Katie also has experience shooting with a professional thin Dom studio and working on both token and private show. Campsites. Recently, Katie has started offering model coaching sessions through adult model mentors, which we’ll talk about a little bit to help other performers transition from big box cam sites to video call platforms like Skype and discord Katie’s writing has been published by Boyle and Mo models, a webcam startup, and ex-business you can find out more about Katie at Katie Churchill with two L’s dot com and Katie.

1 (3m 36s):
Katie had me in the past on the webcam startup podcast, and we had a blast. This should be fun today. Now, Arie Saunders has been on our show a couple of times, by the way, that makes you our first three time loser. Congratulations. You may know, and lovers the former CEO of webcam startup, there’s that name again? And founder of adult mutual aid, but she’s back again with yet another project with longtime friend and employee from webcam startup. Katie Eric has been in the adult industry for almost seven years and uses the applied practice approach to test methods and adult websites for the best coaching and blogging experience.

1 (4m 25s):
When she isn’t consulting. She also builds websites via sex workers, sites.com, streams, video games offer sexy live cam shows and creates pre-made and custom adult videos. Not to mention playing with her five dogs, which I’ve got to beat now. Cause I have six for more information about Arie visit airy fans.com. And that’s why I adopted the six dog, the fifth and six dogs area. Just to fuck with you.

2 (4m 52s):
Yeah, because we’d been talking so much, you just had to surpass me.

1 (4m 57s):
Yep. I’m waiting for you to tell me you got 10 soon,

2 (5m 1s):
10 chickens.

1 (5m 2s):
Yeah. That doesn’t count Cox. Okay. Tell, you know, I’ll be doing my walk in the morning. My speed walk along. I jumped in beach and you know, I go by the, the temple and there’s chickens and I I’ll yell cock. Anyway, adult model mentors came to fruition is airy. The former CEO of webcam startup was transitioning away from working full-time on the company due to internal issues. Katie served as the staff news writer and in addition was recommended a webcam startup by airy herself back in 2017, duo has worked closely for years and it only made sense to work on their next project together with Katie offering coaching and Arie, wanting to start a new go-to blogging and directory platform as an adult performer resource, using their combined years of experience and industry strengths, they set off to create the ultimate resource and hub for information and consultations that fit any performer’s needs.

1 (6m 3s):
You can find them@adultmodelmentors.com or on Twitter at adult mentors. I’m sorry, ladies. That’s all the time we have today.

3 (6m 14s):
Well, you’ve covered it pretty well. So

1 (6m 16s):
I do my best. Okay. So let’s get into the questions and you both can certainly address these. What is your goal for adult model mentors?

3 (6m 28s):
Katie go first. Oh, I was going to say you go first,

1 (6m 31s):

3 (6m 32s):
I want to give models an idea of how successful they can be. One of the things that was really important to me with webcam startup was to show that there was an entire world out there of models who are making a middle-class income middle-class earnings. You don’t have to be a millionaire. And just because you’re not a baller, doesn’t mean that there’s no room for your business to grow and to develop. And that there are other options as well away from the kind of typical route to success. We see, we see a lot of girls who become crossover stars who make it really big on a platform like my free cams or stream mate.

3 (7m 14s):
And then they transition to doing mainstream porn, or they started out doing mainstream porn and transitioned into camming. And people really get locked into this idea that that is the road road to success. This is the way you do it, that you’ve got to have this kind of camera. You’ve got to have this kind of background. You need this millionaire lifestyle in order to really make it. And I wanted to show that there’s different kinds of success. I call myself a middle-class model. I’m middle-class in earnings. I’m middle-class in terms of where I am on across all of the different sites. But at the same time, I have found a place for me. And I’m also not a body that is very represented or hyped up in porn.

3 (7m 56s):
I have an atypical body I’m fat and sweaty and hairy. Okay. And I want to show that there are so many other routes to success. Like for me, I don’t cam on token sites, I don’t cam on private show sites anymore. I do Skype shows. And for me that’s been the way for me to be financially successful. And I want to show models that there are different routes for every person and that that’s okay. And that’s one of the reasons I love working with Arie so much because between the two of us, we’ve basically got it all covered and we found very different roads to success. But at the end, we’ve both got careers and financial freedom and all of what we were looking for, we just didn’t do it in the way that we see represented through things like expos and AVN and why not.

3 (8m 48s):
And other of the kind of porn media interviews kind of world that,

1 (8m 54s):
Hey, oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I knew you mentioned Skype shows that has just gotten to be such a big thing. I mean, I, I, one of our listings that we sold was a Skype site and it just blew me away how popular that was and how it’s gotten.

3 (9m 11s):
It’s a small niche in the grand scheme of things, but it’s gained a lot of popularity. One of the reasons is because ma I mean, I’m sure I will harp on this later because it’s one of my favorite dead horses to flog is that mainstream campsites have not kept up with the technology. Right? Guys want two way video. They want two way audio. They don’t want to be a postage stamp on your computer screen. They want their Dick filling your entire monitor. And quite frankly, that’s what I want to see too. If we’re doing two way video, I want you life-size on my screen. You know, and I think a lot of people more and more people are starting to realize that there is this other route.

3 (9m 52s):
And a lot of people are tired of making 35% of their earnings, 35 to 50%. And they look at something where they can make 70 to 86% of their income. And they’re thinking, well, why am I not doing that? I could make it more affordable, which would bring me more regular customers. Right. And that’s going to increase my income, even if I’m charging less.

1 (10m 12s):

3 (10m 13s):
Yeah. Skype sites are where it’s at. And I think unless campsites really get it together on the technology they’re going to be left behind.

1 (10m 20s):
Yeah. But I got a question though. Dicks filling the monitors that possible some guys,

3 (10m 29s):
I mean, you can always change the resolution, right?

1 (10m 33s):
I’m sorry. I couldn’t resist that. No air. So Eric, sorry, your turn.

2 (10m 39s):
I was going to say, we tried different approaches and ended up at the same destination. Me and Katie are both fat, hairy, and sometimes sweaty now. And it’s wonderful. I’m glad I can have this experience with her. But my goal is for adult model mentors is very similar to what I had with webcam startup. And at the time with webcam startup, it’s not how I foresaw the retirement of the site going, and I just want to work towards it. The same thing. It’s just providing free information for models. And now also the added benefit of offering consultations and being able to provide more specialized support because I mean, it’s important. Some people have very specific questions and needs, and it’s not something that an article will always fulfill for everybody.

2 (11m 27s):
Right? And some people also can’t really grasp stuff by reading it. Some people need to have someone, you know, sit down, explain it to them and kind of go over it again. And again, like when you’re studying for a test, some people like doing flashcards. Some people want to just read the source material. It’s all about what works for different people. So being able to adapt our methods to those people and make sure that everybody, the best potential for earning money and making a sustainable career is super important to both me and Katie.

1 (12m 0s):
Sure. Katie, what makes coaching different from the free resources available on the site?

3 (12m 7s):
So the difference between coaching and free resources is free resources when I write them. And I assume when Arie writes them to, although I’ve never actually asked her is we write them to be as relevant to as many people as possible. So if I say here’s three advanced tips, that’ll take your night flirt account further. And I talk about using keywords, the types of keywords that are searched. I talk about using gifts and photos, whether or not you should make it a phone with cam listing. So I kind of throw it out there and I’m saying, this is what will work for most people. Here are some things you can consider. What it doesn’t do is sit down and look at your night, flirt, listing, and go through it piece by piece with you to figure out what’s not working or what you could change, or why aren’t you showing up in search results for a certain term?

3 (12m 55s):
Oh, it’s because you’ve put all of your text in a picture, you’ve got all that information. You’ve just got it in the wrong format or why aren’t your gifts doing well? Why aren’t you getting reviews? We don’t have the opportunity to sit down and do that on an individual basis when you’re looking at free resources, Free resources, or the teacher standing at the front of the room telling you stuff.

1 (13m 17s):

3 (13m 18s):
But if you have an actual question, you can’t just scream it out because the teacher’s done and walked away. So it’s it’s yeah. It’s a speech versus a conversation, I think.

1 (13m 30s):
Okay. So Katie, so Katie get, get into the specific services you’re offering coaching for.

3 (13m 38s):
So for me, I’m obviously only offering coaching and things that I specialize in. If you would like to know how to do really well on token sites, don’t ask me, I know how to do okay. On token sites, but I only know how to do okay. So I’m not your girl for that. I’m great at night flirt, which is a phone sex site. I’m really good at talk to me, which is a phone sex site. In fact, I can help you get comfortable with phone sex, get used to phone sex, give you some tips on maximizing your listings, how to get into phone sex, if you’re nervous about it. Cause I know I was really scared to do it, which was weird. I felt better about taking my clothes off on the internet than picking up a phone and talking dirty. That’s

1 (14m 17s):
Weird, but

3 (14m 18s):
It’s really common. The number of cameras who say I can’t do phone sex, I can’t do it. Wow.

1 (14m 24s):
I guess, I guess it’s hard. I guess it’s hard for a lot of gals to be someone who they, aren’t what you have to be in phone sex.

3 (14m 36s):
Here’s the thing is phone sex. Everybody has in their mind, the old dispatch style things where they would tell you who to be call you and pick up. You are this character. This is who we’ve sold you as these days with independent CA phone sex, you get to set yourself up as your own character. So I’m Katie Churchill. When they call me, they’re calling me. It’s all my own branding. It’s all my own.

1 (15m 0s):
You’re not a, you’re not a five foot, two bucks, some buxom, blonde,

3 (15m 4s):
Not at all. It’s all my own photos. It’s all my own content. Phone sex has changed so much, but everybody still has this very 1980s, 1990s.

1 (15m 13s):
I can see, you can see I’m a real consumer of it.

3 (15m 17s):
No, but it’s funny because it is such a popular thing. Still. I make an insane amount of money off of phone sex and models. Just leave it behind. So models who are looking to get started in phone sex. Absolutely. Please. I want to help you. I want to get you in on it because you don’t have to put any makeup on. You can do it in your pajamas. Also models who are looking to transition from mainstream cam sites into Skype camming, some of the differences between how you market yourself and that sort of thing. Getting used to all the listing sites, stuff like that. Models who are nervous about doing one-on-one performances. It’s also really common that models. Aren’t sure how to interact one-on-one with customers, which is, I mean, I’m not great at interacting with a big group of people who are all watching and trying to control a show.

3 (16m 2s):
So the one-on-one can be a little bit difficult and really getting that one-on-one creating that intimacy, those experiences that keep them coming back. There are tricks to it. It is a bit of a science as well as an art, a lot of tips and tricks that you can use that hook them and keep them coming back. Right. And regulars. I mean, what is it? 20% of your clients or 80% of your money people say, okay, so you want to keep the regulars coming back and as well and models who are looking models, who are looking at getting into fetish videos, learning how to research, how to explore different fetishes, how to find your own niche, things like that.

3 (16m 42s):
So lots of stuff, just not token sites.

2 (16m 45s):
That’s what makes Katie special because Katie has a method where she enjoys connecting with her customers. One-on-one and that’s actually a style of camming. That’s a style of phone sex. It’s a style of clip production. And it’s something that not every cam person, every clip producer is accustomed to because a lot of the sites set you up so that you’re a performer. And everyone’s a viewer where Katie style allows the customer to also perform. And it increases the intimacy. And I think that adds a real edge to what Katie does.

1 (17m 19s):
I think you guys are both special. I, I can’t, I can’t say that there are two female performers in our industry that I’ve been that I’ve been more impressed with the new to, to be completely honest.

2 (17m 35s):

3 (17m 35s):
True. You two,

1 (17m 37s):
You two, you two are awesome. You two are awesome and nary. That’s why I keep having you back on because I’m a fan

2 (17m 44s):
It’s because you have a secret crush on me. It’s okay. We all know.

4 (17m 46s):
Yeah. Well, we’ll talk about that later

1 (17m 50s):
When we actually meet in person. But anyway,

2 (17m 53s):
One day you got to bring all six dogs though.

1 (17m 56s):
Oh, geez. Nah, I don’t know about that. You’re going to have to come to Tyler. If you want to meet all six dogs, you’re going to have to come out here.

2 (18m 2s):
I mean, it sounds beautiful out there.

1 (18m 5s):
It’s amazing. I got some pictures after, after our conversation to show you from dinner the other night, that’s just going to blow you away.

2 (18m 13s):
If it doesn’t include chickens. I don’t know if I want to talk. You got the chickens in the pictures.

1 (18m 19s):
No sea bass.

2 (18m 21s):
Oh, come on. You know, I love my cock pics.

3 (18m 26s):
You went a long way to set that joke of,

2 (18m 28s):
I really did. I’m so happy. I accomplished.

1 (18m 31s):
That was like the roadmap at Shina. Okay. So, so do you want to answer the same, same questionnaire?

2 (18m 37s):
Sure. So I offer social media marketing consultations tips on customer retention, establishing beginner rates. Brand-building including self publishing PR and website development. And Bruce knows I’m excellent at self published PR because he sees my PR all the time.

1 (18m 57s):
I’ve compromised. I’m complimented it. Yes.

2 (19m 1s):
I also offer consultations on mastering the algorithm on sites that you use specifically streaming and clips for sale, but I’m also able to practice on any site that you prefer to use and learn the algorithm. It’s one of my favorite things to do. Actually, I’m starting a growing your fan club, turning fetish to full time and just video marketing in general. So I’m kinda like the marketing fan club and like algorithm master

1 (19m 30s):
And you’re still, and you’re still, you’re still so young. You’re still such a baby. It just blows me away.

2 (19m 37s):
25 in like six

1 (19m 39s):
Days. Oh my God. Our 25. Oh, okay. I won’t call it. I won’t call you young anymore. You know what? You sound like. You sound like the Thai women. Oh, I 25 I old. Okay. So what kinda true they say that what kind of free information is available on your site?

2 (19m 59s):
All of it,

3 (20m 0s):
Hang on.

2 (20m 3s):
Well, me and Katie, we look at what’s trending, look at what we need information on. And we kind of do it like in a pyramid style. Like here’s the basic, and then what we could build on top of that, what we can build on top of that. And we try to go as specific as we can obviously, without being able to interact with the person directly. But we covered everything. If you can do it as an independent adult performer, it’s going to be on there. And if it’s not on there, tell us, and we will get it on there.

3 (20m 33s):
And we also publish weekly blog posts that have information that creators might need that performers might be interested in. So just a handful of the last ones attack season to do list for American independent, we’ve got advanced tips for night flirt, three things to buy for your business. In 2022, we’ve got a bunch of information about how to make your own link tree alternatives. If you’re worried about getting banned on there, how to boost your placement on stream mate. And then we also occasionally cover things like the many vids awards and ideas for how you can do things on sites like that.

1 (21m 13s):
Got it. So why offer so much for free if your end goal is to monetize your site with coaching

3 (21m 21s):
Two reasons, from my perspective, number one is paying it forward. I was fortunate that when I was a little baby cam girl, I made friends with two women. Who’d been in the industry for a very long time and they were able to just gift me their knowledge. They saved me time. They saved me money. They saved my sanity more than once. And for me, I want to give that information out as well, because I’m not some genius. I didn’t dream this all up myself. I haven’t recreated the wheel. I haven’t invented nuclear fusion or is efficient.

3 (22m 2s):
We can’t do. I can’t remember whichever one of the nuclear things we haven’t worked out yet. That one I didn’t do that. I haven’t created some miraculous thing. I’ve tried things and failed. And I’ve also had the benefit of the learning of other people who have tried and tested and failed and succeeded. And so for me, part of it is paying it forward. But to a wider degree, then my friends were able to do. They just had me to take under their wing. I want to take everyone under my wing. The other reason is to prove that I know what I’m talking about. If I just stand here and say, hi, I’m a cam coach. You should pay me. That’s great.

3 (22m 42s):
Except that I’m a performer across a multiple sites. As most performers are these days. I’m not number one on any site. So I don’t have that easy proof where I can say, look, I’m number one on stream, mate. Obviously I know what I’m doing instead. I can say, well, I’m this number on this site? I’m this number on this site? I’m this number up, but that’s really hard to put into a quick and easy. Here’s why you should trust me. So I want to show people, I do know what I’m talking about. I do have valuable information. If you like this information, then we’re probably a good fit.

1 (23m 16s):
Yeah. And let’s face it. Okay. Just because somebody is number one at something doesn’t mean they know anything. They might

3 (23m 27s):
No trust me. I paid for all those only fans courses to find out if they knew shit and they don’t

1 (23m 32s):
Well and well, and here’s the thing, okay. Many of them are just number one because well, one they’re incredibly hot or two. They’re very good at what they do, but I kind of liken it to sports as, as I like in many things, you know, some of the greatest baseball players of all time were some of the shittiest commentators of all time, because they could do it. Or they were the worst coaches of all time. In this case, they could, they could do it, but they couldn’t tell you how to do it. And then the other thing is some of the greatest athletes of all time were so good at it.

1 (24m 16s):
They had no patience with people who weren’t as good with it.

2 (24m 20s):
Yeah. Also as the resident marketing expert, I am going to add why offer the free resources it’s marketing. I mean, SEO so important. And having these articles up that have all of these keywords. That mean Katie specialize in, and they’re actually rich and full of content is going to perform much better than just a basic consultation page. And we do love sharing the information obviously, or we wouldn’t have, like, we have probably 300, 400 articles up on the site, but it’s also just a fantastic way for marketing. And it’s kind of a knock to the fact that we’re good at marketing and we’re good at the things we say we’re good at

1 (25m 4s):
Yes you are now. And what you, what you did with webcam start-up and the SEO. There is nothing short of amazing. So, you know, yeah. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Now there were loads of cam coaches out there. What do you bring to the table that others don’t

2 (25m 23s):
Or wonderful personalities? Obviously, just kidding. I think that we bring something that I want Katie to elaborate on because she already talked about it a little bit, but we are middle-class performers where average. And I think Katie will agree with me there.

1 (25m 42s):
I don’t think you two are average, but anyway,

3 (25m 45s):
No, but we’re people that are, we are very average. None of us, neither of us burst onto the scene and got profiled and expos, neither of us lucked out and got picked by many vids to be the face of a campaign. We haven’t had any of those lucky happenstance moments that other models might have had that catapult them to the top. I mean, we’ve seen models go from invisible. They get a video picked to be featured on the front page of porn hub at random. And suddenly they’re making a hundred thousand dollars a month. So we have, I always say, I forced my way to success. I had things working against me and I was able to push through it, figure out what worked, go through and actually find out what makes people click on profiles, how to show up in search, all of those things that you don’t need to find if you’ve had a lucky accident.

3 (26m 40s):
Yup. And so I think that that gives me a lot more ability to help other people because I, I can’t look and say, well, I only managed to make it to the front page because I got picked to be on the banner for the site. So they put me on the front page. So the guys would see the same face they clicked on from the ad. I don’t have anything like that. I’ve been able to do it from zero

2 (27m 3s):
And we worked to get here and we continue to work to do what we do. And I think it also helps we aren’t on anyone’s payroll.

3 (27m 13s):
No, you’re not. I could be if you want me to, but not out there

1 (27m 18s):
I can be. I can be. But she says, I am

3 (27m 21s):
Extremely cheap.

2 (27m 24s):
There’s a lot of websites out there that will pay for preferential treatment, preferential reviews, and they’ll even hire cam coaches. And then those cam coaches got to go on and say, you know, I have the experience cause I was the official camp coach for whatever site and we don’t have that. But I think that’s actually more of a benefit to us because we’re more relatable. Everything that we know, we worked hard to learn. We tried, we practice it. We don’t just, you know, say, Hey, do this it’ll work. We did it to see if it would work. If it didn’t work, we tell you

3 (28m 0s):
We’re also both active models, which I think is something that’s really overlooked. There are cam coaches that haven’t performed in years. And I think that that’s really to the detriment of the people they’re helping. I mean, they might be hip with the latest developments on the performer dashboard on paper. But I think when you haven’t used the product, when you haven’t been the product, that also makes a big difference. Especially now when technology is changing so fast, when we have changing demographics of camming, when all of the marketing stuff is changing so quickly with Twitter and Tik, TOK and Instagram and people using Twitch and YouTube and all sorts of things,

1 (28m 42s):

3 (28m 43s):
Yet regulations change what you can. And can’t say on cam has changed what you can and can’t put in videos. And I think when you start looking at models who have not performed for two years, three years, I know of a cam coach who hasn’t performed in over 10 years and people are still paying her and she is not actively on any sites. And because she was a big name, she was a huge name. And I’m absolutely not going to tell you who, but she was a big name and she had a couple of those gigs, but now her stuff is very limited to we’ll put out a sexy picture on Twitter before you go on cam. Everybody knows that.

1 (29m 24s):

3 (29m 25s):
How do you make yourself actually stand out now? You know, having a good profile picture isn’t enough anymore. You still have people saying, oh, well, if you have a good profile picture on streaming, like you can upload your own. Well, no. Now you need to have one taken recently

2 (29m 43s):
To trick that,

3 (29m 45s):
See, there you go. And those are the things that you need to learn is how to, you know, Aries got the tricks, but you still see that in, in some of these cam courses that are sold, you still see how to upload your own picture to streaming. And it’s like, that’s not the case anymore. This course is old.

1 (30m 2s):
Yeah. And let’s keep, let’s keep something in mind. Okay. Who doesn’t have a sexy picture on streaming? I mean, I mean, that’s kind of a dog. No. Have an ugly picture on streaming.

3 (30m 14s):
They used to have a thing on stream may where it would just automatically take a photo of you.

2 (30m 19s):
Now it takes a live photo and you know what? I’m going to give a free trick for all the people out there so that I can prove that I am actually experienced. And what I talk about, if you stream on a broadcasting system, like OBS open up your preferred photo and put that as your overlay, and then you can just set it to visible or invisible, make it invisible for when you take your scan photo to prove you are who you are and then make it visible for when it takes your picture and the no more crappy looking live photo, unless you’re very confident about your setup. And then you can do that. But also you can use this to put keywords like on your screen.

2 (31m 1s):
So when I’m only doing fem Dom shows, I’ll put fem Dom shows. So people don’t come in and say, Hey, do you want to like dildo yourself for 50 minutes? So, yeah.

3 (31m 10s):
See, and it’s those little things that go a long way when you’re helping someone with their profile or helping them up their game. And it’s those things that you don’t know if you’re not an active model.

1 (31m 25s):
Sure. So Katie, what originally drew you to Skype and away from the more popular mainstream campsites?

3 (31m 34s):
For me, it was all about that one-on-one stream mate started doing gold shows and encouraging you to do more and more stuff in public chat, although they still technically had their rules. But let’s be honest is that I wanted that private show thing for me. I do a lot of fetish shows, but I do a lot of private shows. And that was really all I was doing. Whether I was on a token site or on a site light stream, mate, that’s allegedly more private show based. Private shows were where I made all my money, but the sites just aren’t set up for them very well. You know, the guys have to type, if you, if they turn their audio on, it’s really laggy and slow or really hollow.

3 (32m 18s):
And you can’t really hear what they’re saying. You can only get a tiny postage stamp picture of their camera if they’re, if you do cam to cam. And it, it just didn’t make sense that with the technology that we had, that this was the best option for people, but this was the best that we could do. I wanted it to be a real intimate show. I mean, charging a premium price. So I want them to get a premium experience and this isn’t a hit, if you have to stop

1 (32m 46s):
What you’re doing

3 (32m 47s):
To type, and that just didn’t feel very luxury to me. And

1 (32m 54s):
I’m in safe hands might be tied up at the moment.

3 (32m 56s):
Yeah. You can’t type, you know, and not only that, if you’re doing a fetish show, what they’re doing on screen is important. Like watching them, especially if you’re doing any kind of jerk-off instructions or any sort of femdom stuff that involves instructions, you have to be able to see what they’re doing. Yeah.

2 (33m 14s):
You tell them to hit their penis and they’re not hitting their penis. It’s not a real good femdom show.

3 (33m 18s):
And he can’t tell what they’re doing on those little tiny screens. Yes.

1 (33m 23s):
And don’t tell me to hit my penis please, because that would hurt.

3 (33m 26s):
Well, that’s why you’re not one of Aries subs.

1 (33m 31s):
I’m not, I’m not anybody’s baby,

3 (33m 37s):
But yeah. So for me, I did not like the experience that my customers were getting. I felt like they were paying for something they weren’t getting. So I started looking around and I started asking questions on forums and models kept saying, oh, you need to do Skype shows. And I was like, well, what the fuck does that mean? So I was on chatter bay, I believe at the time. And I don’t know if this is still the case, but you used to be able to take tokens for Skype shows. So that’s what I started doing. So they would pay me tokens on chatter bait, and then we would go on Skype and do the actual show And guys loved it. They like it. I would get on chatter bait and I would, I would stream for like four hours and I would do no shows on chatter bay whatsoever.

3 (34m 22s):
No private shows. I wouldn’t do anything in public chat. It would just be me logging in and out getting my tokens and going to Skype. And I thought there has to be a better way to do this. And then I learned about night flirt and I learned about cam model directory. And those were the two that I used and suddenly the money I was charging and the service I was giving became equal, Where now I had them on my screen, big size. We could talk back and forth. There was no lag. We were both getting HD video. Nobody had to type. It was absolutely wonderful. And it, yeah, it made me feel like I was giving the service that I wanted to give that my

2 (35m 5s):
Katie are so good at like treating your customers like they’re humans and not just money.

3 (35m 11s):
My customers are all humans to me. I keep track of all sorts of things about them. Because for me, this business is a customer service business first and foremost. And I know that that seems like a weird way to look at it sometimes. And a lot of people don’t agree with me. I know there’s like very much a trend among some models to like talk down about customers and things like that. That’s really not my vibe. My customers, some of them are so close that honestly, if I don’t see them for awhile, I do worry about them. You know, they are, they are people. They are, I don’t want to say friends because that’s not aligned that I cross with customers, but they are so important to me without them.

3 (35m 53s):
I can’t pay my rent. I don’t have

1 (35m 56s):

3 (35m 57s):
I don’t have the electricity on me and my cat or out on the street. So for me, it’s really important to create an experience that where your customers feel valued, where your customers feel that they’re taking care of, where they feel that they are, that they’re wanted essentially. I mean, our whole job is to be wanted. And one of the ways that I made sure I’m wanted is by giving them an experience that they’ll want to come back for. And for me, that’s been Skype shows.

2 (36m 27s):
They also treat you more human in return. I feel like when you treat a customer, like they’re just money, they treat you like you’re just sex. So I feel like that has a huge benefit for long-term income. I love Katie Katie’s mess. Oh, my dogs are barking.

1 (36m 44s):
Okay. Mute music to my ears, music to my ears.

2 (36m 49s):
Katie’s method is just wonderful. And I think that she’s great at what she does. And I think the way she establishes relationships with customers is just, it’s awesome.

1 (36m 58s):
Yeah. Well, it should be universal. So now you Arie, you’ve said you use applied practice to test out and methods that you recommend. Can you elaborate a little bit?

2 (37m 10s):
So we kind of already flogged this horse a bit back in the however many questions ago, but basically I, I try what I recommend. I don’t just recommend things to recommend them. I’m not like, Hey, this will work for you. And just sit back and let people go for it and fail it. If I see it work and I know it can work, that’s when I recommend it to someone I’m not going to give outdated advice or old advice or advice that I haven’t tried myself. Because if I don’t know if it works, I can’t tell you if it will. And I think it’s so important that as someone offering consultations and mentoring and coaching, that you make sure what you’re telling people is actually worthwhile.

2 (37m 58s):
And if it doesn’t work for me and it works for you, that’s great. But I’m never going to recommend something that hasn’t worked for me because I can’t like say wholeheartedly, like, I believe this will work for you because you know, it’s just, if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. And I think that’s another important part of coaching when people get coaching from me or from Katie, like things may work for you that didn’t work for us. And that’s fantastic. And things may work for us that won’t work for you. But the whole thing with coaching is when you pay me, I’m going to tell you every single bit of thing I can from my experience, because I’ve tried it and I know how to make it work.

2 (38m 43s):
And I just, I feel like that’s a huge part of it. Like you

1 (38m 46s):
Can get all

2 (38m 47s):
Sorts of different.

1 (38m 49s):
Yeah. And not only your experiences, but the experiences of your clients.

2 (38m 53s):
Exactly. And I have, you know, I have friends that have tried things and I’ll actually quiz them. I’ll be like, Hey, you know, let me log into your account and see what you did. Let me see how you did that. Because if I’m going to end up recommending this to someone, I want to see what you did. I want to see how you got there. I, I never want to give a piece of advice. That’s not backed up by someone having succeeded doing it. Right.

1 (39m 18s):
Right. So what inspires the two of you to continue providing help and resources to new and experienced models?

3 (39m 28s):
Sometimes I met, it can be a little bit hard when you put a whole bunch of time and energy into a model who ends up quitting because they got a new boyfriend or they got bored. They didn’t see results right away. Yeah. But for me, what keeps me coming back is getting DMS well, formerly on Twitter, I don’t have Twitter anymore, but I used to get lots of DMS on Twitter that were like, Hey, you wrote this article. I tried it. And it changed everything. Hey, I signed up for this site after you reviewed it. And it’s been amazing. You know, things like that. Keep me going, knowing that I’m helping people.

3 (40m 9s):
I really, that makes my heart happy. I love, I do a lot of volunteering in my non-sex work life. I really love helping people. I love knowing that, just something I did made someone’s day just a little bit easier or a little bit better. And I’ve always been that way. It can be tough though. When you see people drop out, when you see people quit, but it’s, it’s the people who are still trying. That’s what I’m here for.

2 (40m 36s):
And as someone who wasn’t banished from Twitter, the love that me and Katie receive is crazy. Like I’ll have probably at least one newer model a day. That’ll reach out to me and say, Hey, I saw your article on webcam startup or adult model mentors, or, you know, wherever else I’ve posted articles. I’ve been posted on. Like, I think I got on <inaudible> ABN all sorts of different places and they reach out and they’re like, this really helped me. Thank you so much. And then I also went to why not community. And I ran into a very, very popular cam performer fan club performer.

2 (41m 17s):
And she was like, oh my God, wait, you run that site. I use that site like a Bible. And I know this woman is crazy successful. And I’m just like, holy shit,

1 (41m 30s):
Can you mention a name?

2 (41m 32s):

1 (41m 33s):
Can you, her? Nah,

2 (41m 34s):
I’m not going to do that. Cause we didn’t talk. We didn’t talk about publicizing her name. So I’m not going to do that. But I’ve, I’ve run into so many instances of people using information, me or Katie provide and just taking it and running with it. And that encourages me to just keep helping. And even if these people, a lot of people don’t know me and Katie are behind the information we put out. Cause we don’t make it like blatantly obvious. But obviously some sites also allow you to look into who you’ve referred. So I’ve seen, you know, so many people who I see just doing crazy successful ventures and there are referrals and I’m just like, oh my God, it’s, it’s absolutely wild.

2 (42m 19s):
So the impact that we have is so large and sometimes we don’t even realize it. No.

1 (42m 26s):
So what keeps the two of you in the adult industry year after year and keeps you excited about your work?

2 (42m 35s):
Katie likes titling herself. That’s why

3 (42m 42s):
I was going to save the work itself. Quite frankly, I do. I love the sexual aspect of the work. Not gonna lie. That part of it is really great for me. I get paid to masturbate versus having to wait until I’m off the clock. So that’s, I mean, that’s this fringe benefits of it. Obviously. I like the fact that it’s really flexible and allows me to be creative. Fetishes are fascinating and wonderful. I mean, Arie just discovered a new fetish today. When I told her about one of my recent best-selling videos and she had no idea, it was even a kink and

2 (43m 20s):
Don’t tell him what it is. He’s going to laugh at us.

3 (43m 26s):
Stinky pussy videos. Yeah. Saying that your pussy like smells like old dead fish and it’s slimy and gross. It’s a whole kink. And I discovered it

1 (43m 37s):
And I’m glad I already,

3 (43m 40s):
I, I made a video and it’s become extremely popular. And so things like that discovering new fetishes, just really, I was going to say butters my bread. I don’t know if that’s the saying or if I just made it up, but I love discovering new fetishes. I love the creativity. I love performing. But honestly, at the end of the day, I get paid to masturbate and that is a pretty sweet ass privilege to have.

2 (44m 9s):
So for me, who doesn’t quite enjoy the diddling so much as Katie does, I’m actually like pretty much asexual. So I it’s all performance for me, but what keeps me involved is the freedom of the schedule. My ability to be able to take time off. If I need time off as someone who struggles with mental illness, I feel like having the ability to structure my work around how I’m doing is really important to me. Yeah. And I mean, it’s a, it’s a double-edged sword, you know, sometimes I’ll just be sad and sleep and I definitely shouldn’t keep sleeping, but I can, but I have the freedom to do that.

2 (44m 50s):
I’m not going to get fired from my job because I’m having a bad day. And I think that’s really important to myself and also to other people in the industry that struggle with mental illness. It’s a very common thing. Yes.

1 (45m 2s):
Have you, have you utilized the services of pineapple support?

2 (45m 7s):
I have used pineapple support and they recommended me a terrific therapist and it was great, but I feel like I’m too much of a, I’m too loud in the industry because I ended up on a, talking on a panel with my therapist at the time and I found that to be a little bit weird. So I’ve sought out a new therapist now.

1 (45m 28s):
Okay. Yeah. But what they do, what they do is really phenomenal, isn’t it?

3 (45m 32s):
Yeah. Their webinars are amazing. I’ve gone to several of their webinars, which are also free to people in the industry. And while I haven’t used their counseling services, what they do is incredibly incredibly important. It is so difficult to find sex work, positive therapists, and the fact that they’re able to match people up and sometimes offer support with the funding for it is just,

2 (45m 56s):
They almost always offer support with the funding of it. Like you get a special discount if you’re connected through pineapple support. And I think that’s just, that’s excellent because therapy services aren’t cheap. And if you’re already in a stigmatized industry, it’s so scary to spend, you know, a hundred, $200 on something. If you think it might go bad. Yeah.

1 (46m 15s):
Yeah. I, I’m a proud bi-polar. So I, I jumped on the opportunity to sponsor a pineapple support for through our company and I plugged them every chance I get. So is your mentorship and coaching available for hire by adult website owners as well as for models?

3 (46m 43s):

1 (46m 46s):
That was a quick one.

3 (46m 48s):
I think both area. And I have worked with some sites in the past that have been looking for models to review things or look at what they’re working on. Give them feedback more sites should do that. Just putting that out there. But I mean, we’re currently watching the fallout of cam model directory, choosing not to ask models what they think that’s, we’ll see how that goes for them. But yeah, absolutely. We’re open to working with companies, whether they want to look at coaching for their models or whether they’re interested in model reviews and feedback, beta testers, hoping with that sort of thing.

3 (47m 31s):
I think that would be a really fun opportunity. I’ve done a little bit of it, but I would love to do more.

2 (47m 37s):
We’re even more efficient if you get us as a pair too, because we nitpick totally different things. So we will get you a hundred percent there.

1 (47m 45s):
There you go. So how can websites contact you about being featured or reviewed on your website?

2 (47m 54s):
You can contact us directly in order to be featured on the website. You can also send an email to adult model mentors@gmail.com. I know it’s not a professional email we’re working on it, but yeah, you can just reach out to either of us individually, whether you have our emails, you can, a lot of people have already reached out to me personally. So I feel like you guys are all figuring it out. If you’re listening, congratulations, you’re good at what you do.

3 (48m 23s):
Yeah. Reach out to airy. I’m not the best necessarily

2 (48m 28s):
I was going to forward you to me. So I guess just reach out to me

3 (48m 33s):
Areas a lot better at the businessy stuff of having a site.

1 (48m 38s):
So how go ahead.

2 (48m 41s):
So yeah, I was just going to say, if you want to reach out to me directly Arie at Arie, saunders.com is the best way to reach me

1 (48m 47s):
Beautiful. Now how can performers reach out to book consultations?

3 (48m 53s):
So if you go to adult model mentors.com and you click on consultations, it’ll take you to a little page that has area. My pretty face is on it. And there is a button I believe where you can click to request a consultation and it’ll take you to a form where you can fill out some information about kind of what you’re looking for. And we will get back to you pretty darn quickly to follow up, to find a date and a time that works for you. And we’re open to all time zones. You don’t have to be. Cause someone asked me, oh my gosh, what if it’s in the middle of the night for you? That’s fine. I can make coffee anytime of day

1 (49m 34s):
As Ken. I know how that goes. So what are the next big plans for adult model mentors?

2 (49m 41s):
Ooh, this one’s exciting. So we have a new mentor. That’s going to be joining our teams soon. And it’s a name that people actually know and love. Are we excited? Can I get, can I get a drum roll? Very excited. Alice scary. So they are the model liaison for just for fans. And they have been in the industry for a long time. They are a non-binary performer and they have a ton of experience doing fetish work collaborations and just all sorts of different stuff in the industry. So they are going to be also offering consultations through our site and uploading articles and stuff.

2 (50m 24s):
So I’m very excited. I’ll type it in the chat because it doesn’t, it’s Alice scary, but it’s with a K it’s not like scary, like scary. It’s scary with kit.

1 (50m 36s):
I’ll take your word for it. Okay. Very good ladies. I would like you, I would so much like to thank you for being our guests today. I’m an adult side broker talk and I know we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon.

2 (50m 52s):
Oh God. We did it again.

1 (50m 54s):
That was okay. That was, that was better. That was better. My broker tip today is part seven of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement in escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owners participation will be after the sale, you’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things. If you don’t have experience in these things, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult business consulting.

1 (51m 39s):
You can get more information on what this company does and adult business consulting.com. We help website owners, project manage and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting, payments, production, scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help. Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting firm to help evaluate all of these items and everything, the site is spending money on and using to operate the website, make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better.

1 (52m 24s):
Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service. Many times the server is just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website next week. We’ll talk about how to sell a website. And next week we’ll be speaking with Brad Mitchell of mojo host. He’ll have lots to say about hosting. You don’t want to miss that. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests, Aerie and Katy of adult model mentors. Talk to you again next week on adult site broker talk.

1 (53m 4s):
I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of adult site broker, and welcome to adult sidte broker talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week. We’ll be speaking with Norman Jean of junk productions. ASB marketplace is the first platform where you can buy and sell adult sites and domains for free ASB Marketplace allows buyers and sellers, the chance to come together on properties that are valued below our company’s minimum of $50,000. Don’t pay for other marketplaces. When ASB marketplace gives you this service for free visit ASB marketplace.com and sign up as a seller or a buyer today. And of course there’s ASB cash. The first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage, where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission, referring sellers and buyers to us at adult site broker. Check out ASB cash dot com for more details and to sign up.

Now here’s Our property of the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. A profitable industry, recognized dating network with a unique channel for genuine female adult dating traffic. The company was launched in 2010. It was nominated best dating program by X biz in 2012 and AVN in 2013, they’ve generated nearly 200,000 profiles of real women to the dating network and continue to add approximately 5,500 new women each month through natural search results and unpaid link placement.

These women have created sexy profiles and uploaded photos to attract men and most of supply to government issued photo ID. These profiles can be important and to any dating or cam network, the network’s traffic is 91% direct and 8% organic search geo targeting services, runoff MaxMind data, the never marketed to their lists or members outside of their own network of dating sites. So this is a huge opportunity for anyone interested in marketing, similar dating offers or other adult content and services.

Their main developer is available to continue as a contractor only $372,000. Now time for this week’s interview, I guess today in adults site broker talk is Norman Jean of junk productions. Norman, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 53s): Thank you, Bruce. I look forward to our conversation.

Speaker 1 (2m 56s): I do too. Now, Norman is the filmmaker behind junk XXX, a new experimental production company that focuses on creating high quality story-based adult content. He splits his time between LA and Portland, Oregon. John productions is a relatively new and experimental production company. And Norman, why did you decide to start creating adult content?

Speaker 2 (3m 19s): Most of the opportunity from a young age, I’ve been interested in adult content. And I started working on mainstream film sets about five or six years ago. Okay. Normally in lighting and grip or camera. And when we were prepping or when we had downtime, a lot of the crew members would talk about various types of content and of course, adult was included and it was just, we agreed that there was a lot of potential that wasn’t being explored in a dog, perhaps more so than in mainstream.

So I put some thought into it and I kind of started to figure out a way to express other ideas, perhaps through adult, a lot of the adult content. In my opinion, these days falls into one of two categories. I guess you can call them John eras, the first being amateur, which is basically realistic pornography filmed without too much technical complexity, normally on an iPhone or a laptop computer.

And it’s great. I mean, a lot of his content is really good. It’s demanded people love it because it is realistic and it’s very erotic. And then on the other side of the spectrum, you have produced the dot content from what I’ve seen. A lot of it takes place in this fantasy environment, which I guess you can call slapstick, which is basically content with characters that kind of exist in a world. That is not reality. It’s not the world that we know it. Men active from the women.

Speaker 1 (4m 57s): Yeah. Wait, do you mean, you mean, if I’m delivering pizza to this hot chick, she’s not going to suck my Dick and let me fuck her in the ass.

Speaker 2 (5m 5s): Well, So I kind of saw an opportunity to kind of meet a little bit midway and produce something that maybe our call hyperreal, which is basically trying to come off as realistic as possible yet doing so by leveraging certain tools of cinema, some of them being cinematography and sound and dramatic structure and adding depth to the characters, intention, obstacles, stakes, potential consequences for performing some sexual actions.

So at the end of the day, I think, I think there’s a ton of creative opportunity in the adult space. And I feel like that’s kind of existed because there is some taboo with a lot of creative it’s about entering the space. And that’s something that I’ve always been attracted to was art. That is kind of a little bit taboo art that makes people think, and that opens up your mind to new experiences because in that way, you can better learn about yourself.

So I started junk about a year ago, I guess the first shoot was in September, 2020, and maybe September, October, and since I’ve shot about 20 videos and every video is different. That’s why I call it an experiment for company. We’re an experimental production company. I don’t at least at this moment in time, I’m more interested in exploring certain ideas and certain creative, creative expressions, rather than focusing on the specific niche, which is probably worse for business, but it’s more stimulating for me at this moment.

Speaker 1 (7m 1s): There you go. Well, I got to say, you know, you sent me some samples and I found your content interesting as hack. And I thought it was, was very, very good for the viewer. I’m not the normal porn viewer, so maybe I’m not the best person to judge, but then again, maybe the normal porn viewer viewer would not be your target audience.

Speaker 2 (7m 29s): Yeah. I highly doubt it. The first one, there was such a small group, small market upon viewers that pay for pornography. And then within that group, I feel like the audience that is attracted to my type of content is a mere fraction of that. So far the feedback has been really interesting. It’s kind of a love, hate relationship. There’s some people that are very loyal to think that loved watching the content.

And there’s a lot of people that think this is the worst thing to happen in adult since its inception. I mean, I don’t read the comments anymore, but some of the comments are absolutely horrendous, but I mean, a lot of people reach out and say, Yeah, I mean, Yeah, because not all my content is masturbation friendlies. So if there is a part of viewer that stumbles across a video, hoping to get off from that, it’s more likely that it’s actually going to turn them off and turn them on.

In some cases, not in all cases. I mean, you prevent someone from achieving a task. They’re going to perceive you as a threat to behavior. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (8m 45s): Yeah. The one I, the one I saw that I saw that ends in a double murder. I can’t see anybody masturbating to that.

Speaker 2 (8m 55s): No, but, but again, I, I’m not going to incorporate any violence. It’s sexual in nature. That’s not what I’m interested in. All the violence that I incorporate is strategically placed in a more in the narrative or dramatic side of it. And that’s kind of based on the hyper reality of it is that you’re going to think of characters is more realistic when there’s actually consequences. And most characters actually have stakes. So if some, if a female or a woman or anyone, but if the pursue a sexual act, knowing that there’s potential consequences and they have something to lose, and then that consequence happens.

I mean, it’s clearly not a fantasy because something similar could easily happen in the real world. Right. So that’s one tool, I guess, to help create a more realistic story.

Speaker 1 (9m 51s): So how has your experience shooting adult content been so far?

Speaker 2 (9m 55s): It’s been good. I mean, I definitely can’t complain. It’s difficult coming into this. I would have thought that shooting a sex scene would be simple because the characters are generally in a specific area. That’s manageable, there’s actors running around and going through certain passengers or something like that. But it’s really tough. I mean, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of impediments to doing things with continuity.

So in the beginning, I mean, you kind of have to cut during the same motion. If you want to pick up on it, you have to manage your performers in a way where they can stay aroused, which is ultra difficult. Yeah. And I feel like there’s definitely a trade off between going for angles or going for chemistry. And I haven’t found a way to mesh both. So what I generally do now is go for chemistry where in the beginning I would go more for angles where we were shooting.

We were shooting a specific angle that made the performers look really good, made the frame look really nice. And then he would kind of cut, move a light around or something like that, then pick up. But the last, I would say seven or eight things I’ve shot. I’ve done. So with complete continuity. So I just thought that the performers go at it and then I’m there with the camera. And I maybe in the middle, I have to move some things around here or there, but I generally tend to pick back up where we could edit a continuous tank if I had more time on set and more prep time.

That could definitely change. But right now with the resources I’m working with, our shoots are very quick. So it’s definitely tough. I feel like I’m improving every shoot as I’m getting experience. I give the creatives in the industry that I’ve been working in this industry, a lot of credit for putting out the content they’ve put out over the past few decades because it is not easy. Yeah.

Yeah. And especially just keeping up the chemistry. I mean, a lot of porn viewers, I don’t think realize the difficulty that goes into performing sexual acts on camera. It’s not just like two people having sex and a camera guy. I mean, if you, if you want to make it look good, you’re going to have to, you’re going to have to manipulate the performance a little bit. You’re going to have to establish an environment on set that is very open, very safe, very positive and let the performers work in the best way possible.

Speaker 1 (12m 38s): Sure, sure. Now your content and you just alluded to this a little bit ago, your content often often focuses on the reality of the consequences of sexual acts. Why not just focus on the fantasy?

Speaker 2 (12m 52s): I think there was more to explore with a fantasy with, with the actual idea on a fantasy. I mean, what is fantasy in a way, some people would define it as something that is a dream-like or something that’s with imagination, but in a way it’s actually a form of control expression. Whereas humans, we tend to do to run our decisions based on power, whether that means power of ideas or power of physicality and control is a major part of the biological need to express power.

And fantasy is a major part of being able to control your, your mood and your attitude and your, your emotions. So I feel like there’s a lot that has not been explored in adult content when you’re not creating something that’s completely in a fantasy world almost by, by almost by removing the fantasy from it, but making it a core core part of actual story.

You’re showing people that fantasy is deeper than previously thought. So in a way it’s kind of an exploration

Speaker 1 (14m 21s): Philosophical. Wow.

Speaker 2 (14m 24s): I mean, in one way, but in a way it’s very simple. It’s like, if you interrupt someone’s fantasy, how do they react? They’re going to react in a way. And then question, why did we react in that way? And then maybe learn a little bit more about themselves from doing that

Speaker 1 (14m 40s): Interesting. So you hesitate to call your work pornography, but rather adult content. What do you see as the difference?

Speaker 2 (14m 50s): I think ident of the day is something that appeals to the animal brain where adult content is content that features two people having sex or alluding to some sexual action or two people or one person or whatever that is nude, I guess, or, or that entices the viewer sexually or arouses them or stimulates that part of the brain. But you could be aroused.

Your animal brain is not the only part that could be around the emotional side of it could also cause arousal. I mean, you see that in Hollywood, certain things that aren’t sex-based at all, you see it with violence, you see it with romance. I mean a romcom, that’s a way to arouse stimulation out of the brain. So I would define pornography as something that is focused on appealing to the animal brain. And I think adult content. So a little bit bigger where there’s some adult content that’s been created over the past, maybe five or 10 years, that tries to be a little bit more mainstream or tries to appeal a little bit more to the emotions or the outer brain of the individual.

And I think, I, I definitely think that there there’s a difference, but I also hope to find some medium where you could appeal to both. And when I started coming up with what I wanted the junk to be, I was really hoping that I would be able to find that pretty quickly, but it turns out that it’s harder than originally thought because when so much energy is going into that core animal brain to get off, it’s very difficult to shift someone someone’s perception to something larger than that.

It’s almost like when someone wants to get off, you can’t stop it from doing so like that Robin Williams quote, I don’t know the quote specifically, but like we only have enough blood in our bodies to either go towards our PNS or our genitals or to our brain. Not both

Speaker 1 (16m 58s): I’m sure, whatever I’m sure, whatever w whatever he said, it was hilarious. I remember seeing him in one man show quite a few years before he passed and a man was brilliant, man was absolutely brilliant. By the way, there’s also been an effort more and more platforms are targeting their content towards women. Would you say that your content is targeted more towards women than a normal normal porn?

Speaker 2 (17m 30s): Maybe in a way, I definitely am interested in exploring that. I mean, women definitely react very differently. Their brains react very differently in a sexual setting where the man’s brain is more about the physicality and the woman’s brain, their body, and their mind kind of has to connect in order achieve arousal and sexual stimulation. So, I mean, that could definitely be a factor that’s limiting for the content as a now is that I am trying to appeal to a straight male in a way, because that’s what I know.

I mean, I kind of shoot content that I would like that’s, that’s how I create things, but I definitely think that there, there’s definitely something to that

Speaker 1 (18m 22s): Maybe you need to bring So female, maybe you need to bring in some female co-producers

Speaker 2 (18m 28s): I would love that. I’ve actually, I’ve been trying to find a female performer to be a partner in this production company for a while, even before I started, when I went to is before COVID in 2019, I guess that was one of my main goals, but I wasn’t able to find someone that our goals or creative values aligned, but that’s definitely something that I’m ultra open to in the future, because I think that the combination of the male and female perspective is crucial to creating adult content.

That’s more universal.

Speaker 1 (19m 4s): Yeah, absolutely. So where would you like to see adult content go in the future?

Speaker 2 (19m 11s): I would like to see, well, I, I like what a lot of people are doing on the pornography side. Like, I mean, disciples of desire, for instance, I think he kind of created their own niche in the one side of the spectrum. That’s where I would consider pornography or appealing to the animal brain with their visuals, with their rawness. It’s, it’s hardcore. That’s not, it’s dirty, but it’s not, it’s, it’s, it’s high class in a way, which I really like on the author.

And you have producers like the adult time originals or lost or transsexual that are definitely trying to go the more mainstream route and appeal to emotions. And I think that the industry is making good progress. I think the goal, the end goal that I would love is that if there is a type of adult content that could be created, that could end up on Netflix or that could end up end up on Amazon prime, because that would

Speaker 1 (20m 19s): Open

Speaker 2 (20m 19s): Up. Yeah. That would open up a brand new market. And I think that there’s potential there. I mean, in 2020, if you look at like the top 15 or top 20 titles on Netflix, three of them were incredibly sexual. One of them was loved by Gasper Noah, which was a movie that was shot a few years ago, a few years before 2020. But for some reason, people were, I guess, during quarantine and were looking for something more sexual.

So that was your to Todd and then Lars volunteers nymphomaniac, which was a two part movie by like four and a half, five hours in total, incredibly sexual, there was real sex going on with you. What he did was they actually use European porn performers and then the VFX mainstream performers face Charlotte Gainsbourg. But I mean, you watch nymphomaniac and there’s artifices going into artifices and it’s extremely, yeah, it’s extremely erotic.

It appeals to both the emotion, no part of the brain, it appeals to the animal brain. And there’s something that he was able to explore that was incredibly universal to the human experience.

Speaker 1 (21m 41s): Cool. So what are some impediments that restrict progress in the adult space?

Speaker 2 (21m 47s): Yeah, I think, I think the impediments are strong that hold that, hold that back, how the industry is set up and for good reason is to protect the exploitation in many cases of performers because they’re vulnerable. I mean, when you hire someone that is going to on-camera strip naked and do something, that’s very private, a very private part of them. There’s a lot of vulnerability and you need certain types of systems and certain types of structures to make them feel as secure as possible.

I mean, it’s very difficult to create content and plan content that is a little bit more complicated because of time and money. Generally, when you hire a performer, you get them for a certain rate for the day. That’s a certain amount of hours. In some cases you could send them scripts beforehand and talk to them, but you don’t have that same pre production window as you do with something mainstream generally.

And that’s based on the economics of the industry. I’m not an expert on this. I mean, I’ve only been selling my content for about six or seven months, but from what I see, you need to create content very frequently in order to build your market. And when you have to, when you’re, when you’re pressured to create frequent content, you have to spend less time and less resources on each specific piece of content, which means that there’s just less development time. Right? I mean then for maniac, Lars Von chair wrote that I don’t know how long it took him to wrote it.

I assume it was like, the idea was at least in his brain for at least a year in the pre-production period probably took six to eight months. Then they were probably shooting for two or three months. Right. So of course that’s a long, that’s a long movie, but I mean the amount of thought and resources and collaboration that went into that is unheard of an adult because the economics are just completely different.

Speaker 1 (23m 57s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (23m 58s): So I, I think that that will change if slowly adult is able to make progress more to the mainstream, if there’s distribution channels that could hit more eyes through the streaming services. I think that that would open up a lot of potential opportunity to put more resources and spend more time in specific pieces of content.

Speaker 1 (24m 25s): Sure. And don’t believe for a second that the executives aren’t aware of what you just said about, you know, three of the top 10 being sexual movies, they know.

Speaker 2 (24m 36s): Yeah. I forgot the third one, but it was, it was God. Yeah. The one that came out, it was kind of like a 50 shades of gray, but like the Italian version.

Speaker 1 (24m 46s): Mm, nice. Well, and we know how 50 shades did. So why does so much porn look the same?

Speaker 2 (24m 56s): You know, I think I’ve recently figured, or this got some insight into it. I was talking to someone else. And you said the difference between porn and erotica is the lighting in a way I agreed, but then I’m like, well, that’s not really the lighting lighting. That’s a side effect of the difference. Whereas what you’re really doing with camera and lighting and a visual is that you’re giving the audience something to focus on because when you focus on something you’re, you’re, you’re able to, I hate the term manipulate, but that’s kind of what you’re doing.

So when you’re filming something, that’s more like pornography that appeals to the animal brain. I mean, the physical aspects of that focus are really what’s important. So you’re going to have a lot of just lighting from the front or soft lighting or lighting that really shows the person’s body without shadow or something like that. But when you’re creating content that appeals more to the motion, you’re going to generally change the lighting to help focus the audience’s attention on specific parts of the performers and create a mood.

So you might shift the lighting from the front to the back or to the sides to create shadows on the face and attract the viewer to the eyes of the performer, rather than the penis and vagina, the S or the body. If you’re trying to create a mood where there’s some conflict, or whether that’s internal conflict or external conflict, it’s going to be very difficult to do that. If you’re going to light to highlight a physical body, I mean, you kind of see that in like comedy, like curb, your enthusiasm, or like a Wolf Pharaoh movies, or like a Seinfeld, the lighting generally very flat, and it looks like a sitcom, but you won’t see a drama that looks like that.

I mean, take them to the arrival or something. Some w when you’re appealing to emotion, you ha generally you want to establish conflict because conflict leads to change. And that, that leads to figuring out truth. So, Sorry, interest. I think that as, yeah, I mean, I think that as adult moves more into closer to the mainstream to mainstream narrative mainstream drama, I think you’re going to definitely see a change of lighting.

And then also a lot of it comes down to technical ability. It took me, I mean, I’ve been working with camera and lighting since high school, which was 4, 12, 14 years ago. I don’t know, no longer than that, about 15 years. So I probably have at least a decade of experience with photography and lighting that I’m able to bring onto the set and be able to create a look that I’m in control of without any crew.

I feel like a lot of adult content, the shift from something that is more pornography to something that is a little bit more mainstream is somewhat new and people are still learning and trying to figure out how to get the look that they’re trying to achieve.

Speaker 1 (28m 16s): So what prevents a creator from improving the look and feel, and making it appear more like a mainstream narrative content as it is in mostly money,

Speaker 2 (28m 28s): Maybe money is the wrong word. It’s resources are definitely a new tractor. I mean, you look at the credits at the end of a movie that looks great, and there’s hundreds, if not thousands of people on it. And each of those people are, are doing something for them, even the producers. I mean the location manager, that’s a huge part of it. I

Speaker 1 (28m 46s): Mean,

Speaker 2 (28m 46s): Without a good location, that’s ridiculously difficult to make something look good. That doesn’t mean it needs to be like a ridiculously complicated location. You look at like the move to a marriage story to be shot in an all white one, two bedroom apartment, and they made it look good, but that vocation was still instrumental. Also, Bobby Ryan is one of the greatest cinematographers that ever existed. So resources are definitely a part of it, but I think what’s more important almost is the creative desire to do something that looks that has an emotional pull.

If you’re trying to create a specific emotion, that’s not just erotic that choice to create a mood and a turnout. You’re going to explore the light with how the lighting impacts that more. So part of it is definitely based on resources, money, time crew. There’s definitely some like what I should generally I should alone. So the lighting is never perfect. It’s very rare that it’s perfect.

I would always, if I had crew in Ohio time, I could improve it on every single shot, a hundred percent sure. But you have to come up with a medium. Okay. Well, if I shift the light there, if I have to rig it up there, that’s going to take an hour. So no, I’m not going to be able to do that. But if I move the light there and use that, or that type of stand or pose some diffusion on it, or use a specific accessory, I mean, I can create something that looks decent in five, 10 minutes, and then it’s also during the actual sexy. And how long do you want to make the actors wait, when you’re changing angles

Speaker 1 (30m 28s): To keep it hard?

Speaker 2 (30m 29s): Yeah, that’s a huge part of it. So what I, what I generally do that, the last thing I shot, I just lit from above. I mean, I put two bulbs up above the performers and I put China balls, put them in like China balls to soften them up. And then I put some black around the China boss to stop the spill off the wall. And I didn’t have to change the lighting at all. And that soft light from above is probably the key of making it look cinematic and cutting time. Something like you would see in house of cards or like a modern David Fincher movie or a David Fincher series.

What they do is that they put big soft boxes above this set and then black and the sights of skirted off the wall. And maybe on closeups, they’ll bring in a light and they’ll create some modeling on a face, but a lot of it is so simple, but to get that you’re having 30 or 40 people come in before set with ladders and they’re building, what’s it called? It’s on the ceiling frames on the ceiling to hang lights from, and electricians are using generators and cable ties and all of a sudden, so it’s, it’s definitely, it’s definitely difficult, but the more resources put into it, the more the content is trying to appeal towards emotion.

The better the look of the content is going to be

Speaker 1 (31m 50s): Right. So what are some lessons you’ve learned since working in adult?

Speaker 2 (31m 55s): There’s definitely a lot. I definitely become better at like set management of working with performers, which is a big thing. I I’ve kind of shifted the content a little bit to match what this, the feedback I’m getting from the audience, which I’m not so sure it’s a good thing or a bad thing yet. I think that there’s a lesson that I’m starting to learn that I’m not exactly sure how to proceed, but I think that when you’re making a duct content, there’s a specific power of the content that mainstream doesn’t have that power mainstream has a different power.

Mainstream has power over your emotions, but you could create some adult content. I could definitely fuck some people up. You can make them like you can make content that makes them think that certain things are acceptable. You can make people think that certain things are approved or even desired by a woman.

Speaker 1 (32m 58s): And that has happened. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33m 0s): Yeah. So I definitely think that, like before I got into porn, you asked me do ethics and art have anything to do with another, I would’ve said no, there was no room for ethics and art. And in a way I kind of still believe that. But I think pornography, when you’re, when you’re making pornography or adult content, I think you have to take some responsibility for it. So if you’re going to show something that you think could be damaging to an audience and an impact, the negativity, I’m fine with sharing it as long as you’re discussing it with them.

At some point, like I, I heard that I haven’t actually seen this in person, but I’ve heard that Brie mills on some of her productions afterwards sits down and like has an interview and talks about the content and what can go wrong with it or how it should be perceived and how the actors are just acting and all this stuff. So I think there’s definitely more responsibility that an adult content creator should take that doesn’t mean that they should be prevented from exploring the things that they want to explore, because that freedom is ridiculously important and the progress of the human race.

Right. But I think there’s a way to do it in a healthy way.

Speaker 1 (34m 16s): Absolutely. Absolutely. So networking is a big part of growth. Who would you like to connect with in the adult space and how can you offer a value to them?

Speaker 2 (34m 28s): Yeah, so I basically have two goals. My first goal is to be able to create content, my own content with more resources right now. Like I mentioned, most of my shoots, I’m, I’m the only person on set alongside the performers and it definitely restricts what I’m able to do and what I’m able to explore. So I would love to connect with an investor or a partner that would like to explore this experimental type of adult content with me.

And secondly, I would love to be utilized by other producers and directors in the adult industry to help them achieve and create content that is good quality and is closer to what they really want to explore. I mean, I would love to take my experience and mainstream and help other producers and directors create their own content. So next year I’m definitely going to look to potentially shoot for other companies with budgets, but I have myself and that can mean as a director that could mean as a cinematographer slash production designer.

So we’ll see where it leads. But I definitely think, I definitely want to be a part of the growth of this industry, because I think that there’s a lot of really beneficial, valuable things that will happen over the next few decades. And I look forward to it.

Speaker 1 (36m 4s): Yeah. I should mention we’re doing this early in December and it’s going, going to run in the spring of, of 20, 22, you know, and obviously part of that is, is going to shows and talking to people.

Speaker 2 (36m 20s): Yeah, definitely. So I’ll be at M X biz 2020 to

Speaker 1 (36m 24s): See you there.

Speaker 2 (36m 25s): Yeah. And the internet and I guess AVN,

Speaker 1 (36m 30s): No we’ve already happened when this runs, but I’ll see you there. Definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36m 34s): I mean, it’s always great to connect with others in the industry because yes, a lot of people that aren’t in the industry kind of perceive the people that work in adult as being something. And that’s something that’s so different from what the actually are. And I was guilty of that also. I mean, before I got into the industry, I definitely made assumptions about the types of people that worked in the industry and everything. And I first event that I went to was vices, nice party in Chatsworth.

I forgot her name, but it’s a charitable event. That’s run by the former president of penthouse. And it was so cool. It was such a cool event because not only did I see people that I knew their work cause I’ve seen them before everyone was so nice. They were so accepting. They were friendly, not with the ego that you get in. Like if you go to like a Hollywood party or anything like that, where people are scared to go talk to some people then just

Speaker 1 (37m 34s): Can imagine.

Speaker 2 (37m 36s): Yeah. I mean, like if you’re someone that isn’t famous and you go off to someone that is, I mean, every single person at the party is going to turn their head and observe the reaction. Is she going to just, it’s insane. The politics in mainstream and it’s, it’s not comfortable. I mean, it’s not, it’s not real, whereas I felt that adult or industry, but there’s definitely something of like a comradery.

Cause it’s such a small industry where people are just,

Speaker 1 (38m 11s): And we’re under attack. So it’s not only, it’s a small industry. It’s, there’s so much noise from the outside that we pulled together and we become a family.

Speaker 2 (38m 22s): Yeah. And then Teligent is crazy. I mean, I I’ve met so many people in adult that are so smart in such shrewd business people Philosophically. No for sure. And so philosophical and deed and have their shit together in a way To find, I mean, in a way, if you get into this industry, especially as a performer, but you kind of have to have developed certain understandings about yourself, certain habits that allow you to remain sane while doing this.

And that generally means that a lot of the people have put a lot of work into themselves. And when that happens, you generally have a healthy environment.

Speaker 1 (39m 7s): Sure, absolutely. So who’ve been some of your favorite collaborators thus far.

Speaker 2 (39m 14s): Yeah. As agents mark Schechter has been great. And he’s been a huge help, especially early on. He’s always on top of his game, always eager to help Sandra from OSI modeling is, is great. I work with them basically exclusively now because they just make my life so much easier. And the roster’s awesome. I mean, combine both companies, I mean, especially in Los Angeles, there’s so many different types of performers that always show up on time and are professional.

And then if something happens in night before or whatever, I mean, they’re always there to find solutions.

Speaker 1 (39m 55s): Yeah. Mark. I remember when mark was starting this company after he sold his previous company and it’s man, it’s come a long way. It’s been about 10 years.

Speaker 2 (40m 8s): Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. As performers, Vanna Bardot was the star of my first two. So I give her, she was awesome. I love her. She’s an amazing amazingly talented performer. And I’m grateful that she was willing to come on with a completely new director, which was kind of a little bit unexpected because she’s been in the industry a long time and she’s shot up.

I mean, I think that she’s nominated this year for a performer of the year. I think she has. She definitely has some big nominations. So van has been in two of my productions. I loved, I mean, everyone that I’ve worked with has been amazing. I think Chloe Capri has a ton of talent, not just talent with adult, but I think she has a lot of mainstream potential also. And I would love to see her try and leverage that as for male performers.

I’ve worked with Chris Blackwood multiple times who are really like ultra professional has a great body, has a great face, good actor. He’s great. Giovanni Francesco. I’ve worked with twice and I’m definitely going to work with him again. He’s with ATM and he has a look to him. It’s very unique. Kind of like a GI Joe look kind of like can like Barbie and Ken, but he’s an amazing performer is incredibly, he has incredible depth with what he could do.

Scotty P I’ve worked with him once, but I’m working with him on a project in a few weeks who is awesome. I mean, my favorite scene I’ve ever shot, I think was with Scotty P and a female performer Keller, Nicole, that is, she represents herself or she is awesome. I mean the amount of energy that she put into the scene was insane. And the other, I don’t think I could’ve done that project. It’s called the day in the hood. I don’t think I could have done that project casting the way that I wanted to, if I cast it anyone other than those two Scotty P and telling the call.

So, I mean, I liked to explore performers because I haven’t been doing this that long. So I want to use new girls and I want to use new guys because it helps me grow my network and it’s fun meeting new people. So yeah. I mean, I know one that I’ve worked with yet has been an issue everyone’s been great. So I’m grateful for that.

Speaker 1 (42m 53s): And I wanted to ask you a question you’ve worked in mainstream a lot and now you’ve worked in adult a bit. How’s the acting ability of the adult performers.

Speaker 2 (43m 2s): Yeah. I think it’s better per capita and mainstream by solid margin. Yeah. I think that the reason why adult performers get a lot of shit for acting is a few reasons. One, well, there’s not as much prep too. There’s not as much complexity in the characters. And how could you act when you don’t deeply understand the character? I mean, in a way, what act good acting is it’s like you have a CA you have the story of a person or a character when whatever you’re making that say you have a feature movie.

Okay, well, that’s a hundred, 120 pages of a story. What the actor brings to the table is that they’re able to express to the audience, the other 500 pages of that story that are not presented in the movie through their eyes. Whereas the audience understands that character through the character or the actor’s understanding of that character. And that’s projected to us through their eyes generally and through of course, through their voice and through their actions and their body language and everything, but mostly through the eyes.

So you can not expect a good performance out of an actor if there is no character depth. And if there’s no intention or obstacle of a scene, if there’s no clear desire. And a lot of that takes time. I mean, I, I’m working on a mainstream project right now with an adult performer that I’m really about, and we’re meeting at least once or twice a week to just talk about character for three hours sometimes.

And we’re literally creating a whole life for this character since early, early, early childhood. We’re talking about five years old up until the current age. It’s like 35. And we’re getting a complete understanding of the backstory of intentions of trauma of the ego, the identity, and is all that going to be in the movie? No, of course I’m a very, very, very, very small part of that is, but understanding that character is incredibly important to not only the writing process, but also

Speaker 1 (45m 17s): Absolutely. So what are your plans for a junk production’s going forward?

Speaker 2 (45m 24s): I hope, I mean, the plan is keep on making experiments or content, hopefully getting more resources to be able to expand on that content, to make it longer, to make it more complicated or not complicated, but more complex. And to make it look and sound much better than it currently does. The goal is to make it as good as anything that I would do mainstream resources into it.

Sure. I’m planning two productions over the next few weeks. One of them is a trans production that I love. I think it’s really interesting. I’m not going to spoil it, but it’s so different from anything that you’ve ever seen. Okay. And then another one is kind of an adult take on a scene of a mainstream movie from bed Lieutenant, with Nicholas cage bed within, and part of the problem, not the Harvey, Harvey cartel one. And it’s such an erotic scene, just the mainstream version of it.

So I’m like, you know what, sometimes the best idea is to just stealing something from mainstream.

Speaker 1 (46m 34s): Sometimes the best thing you can do is just steal it,

Speaker 2 (46m 38s): Especially in the dull. I mean, that makes my life a lot easier. And of course you’re putting your own thing on it, but just like the core of idea is sometimes, I mean, that’s how you expand on anything. I mean, good, good art or good content. All of it is in my opinion is really changed as long as you’re doing something different, right? You’re, you’re, you’re creating art. So if you take something that’s been done before, but then you add your flair and try and take it a step further. That’s art. I mean, that’s, that’s progress.

You don’t need to reinvent the wheel. I mean, some of the greatest stories ever told like Macbeth, but modern version or, or the Bible, but a modern version of the story of Exodus or whatever story is very, it’s very deeply rooted in our psyche. And I mean, there’s a motto, man. There’s people like Joseph Campbell would argue that every story is a saying that the core in a way he’s right, an adult is kind of no different.

It’s just a little bit focused on something that’s different than mainstream.

Speaker 1 (47m 47s): Absolutely. Well, Norman, I’d like to thank you for being our guests today on adult side broker talk. I hope we’ll have a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (47m 56s): Thank you. It was a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (47m 58s): My pleasure. My broker tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit. If you’re going to be making payments, this is done about half the time. These days, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow.

Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. There are from out of Washington, DC, and now they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them, trust them. And I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a custom escrow, or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by Asgrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed.

It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal, closing your brokering. Your attorney can advise you more on this and it’s on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as are all the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition, or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.

This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point it pretty much own the website. So what do you do now? We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Aerie and Katie from adult model mentors. And that’s it for this week’s adult site broker talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, Norman Jean from junk productions. Talk to you again next week on adult site broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Jon, the host of the podcast What Women Want.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to introduce for sale a hint high site network. The company has an Italian hand-tight pay site and the most popular Italian hand tie free site, plus a popular game pay site. The free site has Italian hand-tight comics and videos, and 52,000 daily views. The adult Italian game site makes over 40,000 euros a month. The hen comics and video site makes over 11,000 euros monthly.

There are also telegram channels for the sites that are included as well as a Patrion page. All of these sites have a ton of content and the traffic is mostly organic. No advertising has been purchased. This is an amazing opportunity for anyone with <inaudible> or game traffic. There is also all the necessary materials to learn and manage the business included in the sale. Only 1.5 million euros. Now time for this week’s interview, John, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 24s): It’s a pleasure being with you. And it’s really interesting talking to somebody who’s so far away. Although I’ve been doing some recent podcasts where I’ve been talking to people over in great Britain, and when you see them on zoom, it’s pretty amazing. It’s pretty amazing that the world is allowing us to talk all over the world. Aren’t they?

Speaker 1 (2m 45s): It’s incredible. So we’ll tell people about you and your podcast. The what woman want podcast is a fun and Frank discussion about the ways amazing humans from so many walks of life connect with each other and their journeys to become their authentic selves. The show is beginning its second season. John AKA. Hi there. Catsuit has been hosting the show since October of 2021. John is an avid writer and contributor on FetLife. John wrote a column about men and their unsolicited Dick pics.

The response led him to brainstorm with nookie notes of dating kinky to create the podcast. John, the host has an award-winning background in broadcasting going back more than 35 years and has appeared as a talent on national networks, as well as regional and local stations. He has seven Emmy awards for his work behind the scenes. In addition, he has been a public speaker and has even presented a Ted X. Talk about how people treat each other in the scene. Hyder catsuit is a bottom leaning switch who is known for his trademark spandex suits, which led to his name as so many people just said, hi there catsuit.

When he would walk into a party he’s active in the Cincinnati area and is hoping to take the show on the road to kink conventions with live presentations, you can find John on most social media, of course at hi there catsuit. So John, so he, you know, we were, we were talking briefly before this, about our, our common sports background, obviously mine pales compared to your experience. You tend a lot.

Speaker 2 (4m 29s): I did a lot of it was on national networks, doing all things, professional wrestling, where I was a pro wrestling announcer for a long time. I love

Speaker 1 (4m 41s): That

Speaker 2 (4m 41s): Did a division one college basketball, a lot of women’s sports, volleyball, swimming, track soccer. I would love to do the sports that nobody else wanted to do. And it was very much something that was a passion of mine because especially women’s sports because the women work just as hard, if not twice as hard as the guys did to be amazing athletes. And I wanted to make sure that I honored them by being able to present their sports in a beautiful spotlight that they never even dreamed of.

Speaker 1 (5m 20s): Yeah. Women’s sports have come a long, long way haven’t they?

Speaker 2 (5m 25s): Absolutely. And you know, there’s so many underrated sports volleyball was my favorite sport to do because You could have people of all shapes and sizes doing amazing things out there on the volleyball court. And the, the hops that these ladies had were just incredible.

Speaker 1 (5m 44s): You know, it’s really funny when I, I show up at 5, 5 30 in the morning from my morning beach walk, the place I park, invariably, there’s a group of lady. Boys was we like to call them partying and many mornings there’ll be playing volleyball including this morning in the rain. And yeah, some of them are pretty good.

Speaker 2 (6m 9s): It’s a wonderful sport. And I really enjoyed covering it when I did.

Speaker 1 (6m 13s): Yeah, absolutely. So what made you start a show about what women want when you’re a guy?

Speaker 2 (6m 19s): I have always been a proponent of things that are female. I have always been a feminist so to speak. Yeah, I am not a man’s man. As a matter of fact, that there was a wonderful dominatrix, Amanda wildfire say, well, you know, John, you’re a man’s man. And I had to say, well, ma’am actually, I’m not because there are so many men that are driven strictly by sex. And I, I called them the people that think with their dicks instead of their hearts in their head.

And I am one of those people who lives a life of kindness, of empathy and respect. And the thing that I noticed with a lot of my kink friends is they weren’t getting that kind of treatment online. And men were sending them unsolicited, Dick pics, as a way to say hello, which I found offensive, not only because I am a gentlemen who is now single and would like to be able to meet people and the damage that many men have done when it comes to introducing themselves in the wrong way, or trying to show a little bit of male power towards females by intimidating them or assuming things that are not appropriate to be the main thing that they want to do, that keeps those of us who aren’t necessarily like that and want to form connections and want to learn about somebody.

We don’t get trusted. And it really honest to God pissed me off. Yeah. And so I did this, this article called dear man about those unsolicited Dick picture sending. And I read that. Yeah. And I, I got to, and it wasn’t from you, even though you used to be in the bay area, but the guy from San Jose saying, well, if you’re a, if you’re not willing to show yours, you must not be very proud of yours.

Speaker 1 (8m 31s): I think I’ve heard him on can VR John from San Jose because

Speaker 2 (8m 34s): Yes. You know exactly the guy I’m talking about probably has a Ford F-150 with a ride, the risers and the big wheels. And, but you know, he’s willing to show his Dick pic anyway. So

Speaker 1 (8m 48s): Joke about that. The guys with the big wood with the big wheels normally have to have tiny Penai

Speaker 2 (8m 54s): Right. I’ll I’ll digress here. I was down at a roller Derby tournament in new Orleans, Louisiana. And we were in the French quarter on one of the balconies and a guy gets on a motorcycle and just starts revving it up right in the middle of the French quarter, amongst all the drag Queens and the fun bars and whatever. And the guy’s revving it up. And one of the female Derby announcers said, excuse me, sir, would you please put it back in your pants?

That guy drove off very quietly because all the drag cranes are going. He got you.

Speaker 1 (9m 37s): I love new Orleans. What personality?

Speaker 2 (9m 40s): Yeah, go ahead. So I wrote this, this article and he was telling me that, you know, I’m ashamed to show mine. I said, look, dude, I have a six foot three daughter and a son who’s a really professional photographer and is amazing. It did its job. I don’t have to worry about it anymore. Or you have to worry about now. Yeah. And he said, well, you obviously must not be. And I said, I have more women talking to me and saying that they love me than you probably ever will because I actually treat them like humans.

Yeah. Yeah. And so this, this entire conversation became a conversation that I had with nookie notes, who I had met at cope, which is a kink convention that used to be held here on Ohio. And we became kindred spirits as far as our writing is concerned. And I had helped her do some video from my television background. And she said to me, I really love that article. I said, what is it that women do want nookie?

Hold on. I think we might have a podcast here. Oh yeah. So from a kink perspective, I started interviewing people. I originally thought it was going to be just my friends, but on my second ever show, I had Christina Carter, Nisa, nevers, and Adar Jordan, who are arguably three of the biggest fetish models in the world, especially Christina Carter who had formed most of my fantasies in my life when it comes to fetish. Right?

And so she was on my second ever show. Wow. And when I said to her, Christina, I look at your porn a little bit differently. And she goes, really? I said, I love the outfit you wear. You obviously are voluptuous. You’re gorgeous. You have a beautiful face. You’re always beautifully made up. And of course I like your outfits because a guy named hi there, katsu would like spandex outfits. But Christina, I get turned on by wanting to be you.

And she said, excuse me. I said, I get turned on by the idea of being desired and being helpless And thinking about what you’re thinking about,

Speaker 1 (11m 58s): Interesting,

Speaker 2 (11m 58s): And the feelings you’re going through and the mindset that you have realizing that you’re vulnerable and feeling a little bit in danger and not in control of yourself When she went, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody say that they’ve watched my porn like that. I said, well, consider me the first.

Speaker 1 (12m 21s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (12m 22s): Well, that one, that one conversation suddenly opened doors to the point where I have no fear of asking people to be on the show, none whatsoever. And so I started thinking, who did I want to have on the show? And I kept it with a kink with a kink focus because we are presented by dating kinky. But I also wanted to get athletes, people who are actresses.

And the strange thing is I started having mainstream porn stars. You have BSG Brian Gross. That has been on your show. He approached me with some mainstream porn stars. And it was almost as though they were out of place.

Speaker 1 (13m 10s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13m 10s): Because they were so much about the sex. And when I would interview people, it wasn’t about the sex. It was why they are who they are And what allowed them to be that way.

Speaker 1 (13m 25s): I’m sure those were.

Speaker 2 (13m 27s): Yeah. So suddenly I start having people like Madorie, who literally wrote the book on Shibari and Japanese rope bondage and is considered an absolute superstar in the kink world, sunny Megatron, who had a show on Showtime and has one of the biggest podcasts, the American sex podcast in the country. Yeah. And then fetish model after fetish model. And then suddenly prodome after pro Dom to the point. Now that I have the other week, I had Jasmine Wu who is considered one of the top programs in the United States.

And she was doing a presentation on the same platform as I was. And I said, Jasmine, I just wanted to introduce myself. I’m John also known as hi there. Katzer and I’m the host of what women and other wonderful humans want. She goes, I know exactly who you are and I’d love to be on your show.

Speaker 1 (14m 22s): Oh, that’s awesome. Hello.

Speaker 2 (14m 25s): So life has changed a little bit to the point where now, when I asked people to be on the show, they’re like, sure. When do we do it? Yeah. Either that or they’re or they’re,

Speaker 1 (14m 37s): Or they’re asking to be on the show.

Speaker 2 (14m 40s): Yeah. I, I am just so blessed by the, the people that I’ve gotten to talk to. And the stories that I’ve been able to tell a good example would be Hotsy who was very famous for being singing at Disneyland during the day and becoming a pro Dom at night, she became viral when she did the try guys show for the try guys do BDSM on YouTube, which is a huge internet sensation.

And she was the Dom that showed them how to do BDSM to the point where she was actually featured on E in a special called the real 50 shades of gray. Wow. And they followed her life.

Speaker 1 (15m 24s): That’s cool.

Speaker 2 (15m 25s): Well, Hotsy during, COVID had moved to Ireland to be with a B with her boyfriend, took everything, moved, everything over there. And suddenly the relationship ended and she was left with literally nothing. She returned to Colorado where she got a job cleaning houses. Now you’re talking about an internationally known pro Dom, who is cleaning houses in Colorado.

And she shared this story and she said, cleaning houses, cleansed my soul and allowed me to remember who I really was. And now, by going through all that and reaching what could be considered rock bottom, but it, she considered it her transition time. Yeah. She’s back performing again. I think she enjoys kink when she can, but her life is about living her authentic life.

Now it’s not about living a life that somebody’s portrayed her as

Speaker 1 (16m 39s): Sure. Sure.

Speaker 2 (16m 40s): Oh, so those are the kind of stories that are pretty amazing. And I’ll give you one more because I know we’ve got some more questions and I don’t want to just keep talking here.

Speaker 1 (16m 50s): I don’t know. Go ahead. Cause I was going to ask him, I was going to ask you about stories. So go ahead.

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): A couple of weeks ago, I had lady VI who is known in, in and around the world, the internationally infamous as she calls herself Satan matrix.

Speaker 1 (17m 7s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): And lady VI is been a pro Dom in Seattle. I actually knew of her work back when I lived in Seattle. And since I moved around, I’ve always followed her wild, wild personality. And of course, with a name like the Satan matrix, you would guess that she would have a wild personality. I

Speaker 1 (17m 27s): Would guess that

Speaker 2 (17m 28s): Big wide eyes amazing grin. And just always up to mischief. I had her scheduled on like my F maybe my eighth show and we were getting ready to do the show. And I said, can’t wait to have you on the show next week. She says, yeah, I’m heading down to new Orleans to, to do some debauchery. And so I’ll, I’ll hit you up when I get back, I said, oh, that sounds good. So I contact her when she gets back from new Orleans and she says, I don’t think it’s a good time for me to do the show.

Cause I can’t talk about it. I said, talk about what

Speaker 1 (18m 9s): It,

Speaker 2 (18m 9s): And then I didn’t hear anything. So I Googled her and new Orleans. And what I found was an article where a Catholic priest had hired to dominate tricks is,

Speaker 1 (18m 25s): Oh shit.

Speaker 2 (18m 26s): To come to a Catholic church to shoot a porn on the alter.

Speaker 1 (18m 31s): Oh fuck.

Speaker 2 (18m 33s): And it was in the middle of the night, middle of the night, you know, early morning. And the nosy neighbor came by and saw lights on in the church.

Speaker 1 (18m 44s): Oh God

Speaker 2 (18m 45s): Peaked in, took the video camera called the police fuck and lady vie. And the other nominate tricks were charged with a hate crime of institutional vandalism.

Speaker 1 (18m 58s): Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (19m 0s): Like the same thing you’d be charged for, for putting a swastika on the side of a

Speaker 1 (19m 6s): Synagogue,

Speaker 2 (19m 8s): Synagogue. Right. And so obviously I knew what she couldn’t talk about.

Speaker 1 (19m 13s): Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 14s): And I said to her, your invitation is always open whenever you want to come on the show. It’s always home. And I checked with her three or four times and I just said, I just want to let you know, I was thinking of you. No expectation. Just let me know. And then I got a note back from her saying, I’m finally able to talk about it and I want to talk about it with you.

Speaker 1 (19m 38s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): And I said, okay, you’ve got an open forum. I said, I don’t want to make that. The whole show goes fine, but I know what I can say. So we open up the show with the first five, which is five questions about first, like first time you ever picked up a paddle, first time you ever put on a catsuit, first time you ever walked into a Dungeon’s questions like that, then we started the second segment. And I said in the immortal words of Jay Leno, when he talked to Hugh grant, what the hell were you thinking?

And she went into the story and I asked a few follow-up questions. And she was able to tell the story of the fact that they weren’t in the public eyes. Somebody had to look in and consciously try to find something wrong. Right. And that the priest had been the one that had hired them and the Catholic church made it into this PR thing. Of course, where they went and they went and publicly burned the alter because everything had been defiled.

And she said, I understand why they did that. But here’s what, I don’t understand why priests raping kids. And I’m the one getting arrested.

Speaker 1 (20m 52s): No shit. Huh.

Speaker 2 (20m 53s): And I was like, yep. And she said, we went to shoot a porno that nobody was going to see, except people, this guy wanted a custom video and it was the priest that hired us. And we went down to do it. Yeah. We’re the ones being charged with a crime,

Speaker 1 (21m 12s): Of course, because that’s, that’s just the way our industry’s treated. Unfortunately

Speaker 2 (21m 18s): She finished talking about that. And I said, when we come back on the show, we’re going to talk about why you are the way you are. And we talked for another 40 minutes and she told me the story of how the Satan matrix started, told me the story of her lifestyle subs and her professional clients told me the story of the connection that goes on in a scene. And we got deep into the story of how people pass energy and connection and love and touch with each other.

Speaker 1 (21m 58s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (21m 59s): That’s very rarely about sex, but very much about being in the moment. Yeah. And after the show, she said, she said, John, I can’t believe we talked about what we talked about. This was beautiful. And I said, well, you’re a beautiful woman that has a wonderful heart. You’d like to tell people you don’t, but you’re amazing.

Speaker 1 (22m 26s): Nice.

Speaker 2 (22m 26s): Her mom listened to the show. And I got a note back from lady vie saying my mom listened to the show and I realized it was the first time she ever heard lady vie talk instead of her daughter. And she said for the first time, I understand why my daughter is the way she is. And she’s beautiful in every way. And I love her and I couldn’t be prouder.

Speaker 1 (22m 50s): That is fabulous. That is absolutely fabulous. So, so John,

Speaker 2 (22m 56s): And that’s what I do with my show now, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (22m 58s): Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that’s fabulous. So what are the things that most men get wrong when approaching someone for a connection?

Speaker 2 (23m 7s): If it is in a social media platform or a dating platform, they don’t read the damn profile of the woman. They see two breasts woman. I want to put my Dick in it. Hey babe. And they’ll send an note that we’ll go, Hey, or you’re hot or hi, or I I’m a Dom and I can master you fall down to your knees to me, bitch.

Speaker 1 (23m 37s): Nice.

Speaker 2 (23m 39s): And our show, the reason it made the transition into allowing people to tell stories of their authentic selves is we were a broken record.

Speaker 1 (23m 48s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23m 49s): Men, men have. I call it the, the impro. I give it the improv analogy. You get a problem. You go straight for the solution. In this case, the problem is they’re horny. The solution is getting themselves off. When women get a, get a problem or are given a scenario, The first thing most women do in improv is they take a 360 degree view of exactly where they are at that moment and figure out what about the journey is going to make this worthwhile to get me to where I want to go.

Speaker 1 (24m 32s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24m 33s): It’s a much bigger story. So saying hi, or Hey, or you’re hot, or I’m going to do something to you. Isn’t like saying, I read where you really enjoy the Le a life in submission. Tell me a little bit about what that makes you feel. Hmm. I happen to be somebody who enjoys being, playing from the top and might have something of interest, especially since we both liked the Cincinnati Bengals.

And I love the fact that you love wine and you like to drink wine and go to go to parks. That’s something that I enjoy as well. As a matter of fact, I actually like to go to the zoo and the concerts.

Speaker 1 (25m 21s): In other

Speaker 2 (25m 21s): Words, it sounds like something,

Speaker 1 (25m 23s): You know, in other words, talk to them like a human being.

Speaker 2 (25m 26s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): Amazing how that works. Huh? Yeah. Amazing other works. So how did you get involved with the kink community

Speaker 2 (25m 34s): Back in 1966? Yes. I am old enough to be back in 1966. I used to watch Batman when it originally came out

Speaker 1 (25m 46s): To, what year are you? What year were you born? John?

Speaker 2 (25m 49s): 63.

Speaker 1 (25m 50s): Oh, you’re young. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (25m 52s): But watching at three years old and seeing Catwoman seducing Batman or seeing bat girl getting tied up or put in peril, That kinda taps on your shoulder To the point when you’re watching it in reruns, when you’re in puberty and your mom and dad, haven’t given you the talk and suddenly you have an orgasm in your pants while watching cat woman tie up Batman.

And then the second time you have an orgasm, you’re watching Emma peel getting tied to train tracks. And the third time you have an orgasm it’s back girl.

Speaker 1 (26m 32s): I, yes, it came naturally, I

Speaker 2 (26m 34s): Guess. And I’m still going, what in the hell is coming out of my penis? What is this? Because I didn’t know When that is your first, second, third, and we’ll take it all the way up to seventh before I could figure it out. That kind of imprint, you

Speaker 4 (26m 52s): Know?

Speaker 2 (26m 54s): And so I had had the fetish all my life and so many actually brought up the fact that can’t can be considered an orientation. You don’t have control over whether you like it or not. Okay. It’s imprinted on you at a young age. You have a proclivity of it from something that you did not control. Okay. And I tend to agree with that somewhat. This is not diminishing what people in the LGBTQ plus spectrum have to go through, but I never had a choice in the matter.

So I spent my first 30 years trying to be normal and I go home bingeing and purging. Yeah. You know, I’d buy a whole, I, I got to the point where I really enjoyed the feeling of spandex. I’d buy a spandex outfit. Then I throw it away because I want to be normal. And that was the first 30 years of my life. Then I got married and she kink shamed me. She said, I know I ever want to see you in that ever. Oh man. Well that took care of the next 20 years.

So when, when my life became one without intimacy and my marriage became something that was not going to work out. Yeah. I decided to go back to my, my kink and fetish. Interesting and eventually was accepted in the Cleveland community in a wonderful way to the point where I actually ended up becoming an ambassador of the Cleveland kink community, wild frightened to bring the two rival spaces together, to talk to each other.

Now I had a little bit to do with the fact that they will go back and forth between the two spaces. For the most part. You know, you have the older people who will always be at the one place and the younger people always be at the other place, but they intermingle every now and then. That’s cool. And so I was the, I was the 56 year old guy who started at the old place and then went to the young people’s places said here can actually kind of cool. Yeah. And so that’s what brought me into the kink community.

And now I’m very much entrenched in the kink community here. And I am proud to tell you that I don’t know when this will air, but in March, I am actually being brought out to Chicago, Illinois, to be a presenter at kinky college teaching classes on telling your story authentically one, another one called consent and connections online and beyond. And the third one, which I’m most proud of is called kindness in kink.

Yeah. Where you would never think of BDSM where pain and impact. And sometimes bordering on torture could have kindness in it. But that’s what I’m going to teach about.

Speaker 1 (29m 57s): Interesting. As far as the schedule goes, we’ll discuss, we can discuss that offline. Who were some of the best guests you’ve had on your podcast? You mentioned a few.

Speaker 2 (30m 7s): Yeah. Lady vie and Christina Carter, Alexandra snow, who is a legendary dominatrix, was absolutely amazing to talk to Jim weathers who has a site called bondage cafe, probably the preeminent content producer for super heroine and spandex material. Legendary guy published author. I mean, I just got a copy of his book, which he sent to me an autograph for me that has some of the most beautiful pictures of, of women in bondage.

It’s amazing. We talked for three hours. He says he doesn’t give a lot of interviews. And he talked to me for three

Speaker 1 (30m 55s): Hours. That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (30m 56s): In our first ever two part interview, I have talked to Lee Harrington, who is, I don’t know if you, you know about Lee, but Laney is a pioneer in transgender studies and Lee at one time was a female porn star and now is a beautiful transgender man who is one of the best educators in the world when it comes to kink.

And it, when it comes to gender issues, it’s cool. We’ve had some non-binary folks on the show that have been absolutely amazing. We’ve had hall of fame. Dominatrixes like Amanda wildfire, like mistress, Natalie, like Tara Indiana who ran for president against Donald Trump four years ago, because I wanted to quit. I heard about, yes, Tara was on the show and we had her on just before election day.

Speaker 1 (31m 59s): I’m sure that

Speaker 2 (32m 1s): I got any better. And then of course Madorie is the, is the absolute rock star when it comes to educating people in kink, she was called by Dan Savage, the supernova of kink. And she

Speaker 1 (32m 19s): Loved

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): Every, yeah. Every

Speaker 1 (32m 23s): I’ve seen him. I’ve seen, I’ve seen him on bill Maher a bunch of times. And I think he’s, I think he’s hilarious,

Speaker 2 (32m 29s): But I’ve also had fun talking to people who aren’t so well known. I think one of my favorite episodes I had was a friend of mine named Andy, who is a gender fluid sex therapist and a actual psychologist who has an everyday practice. That’s very open in gender issues and kink issues. And we talked about the way they approach their therapy. And we talked about a scene that we did, which to this day is still the most intense scene I’ve ever done, but it did not include one piece of bondage.

One bit of impact. It was all mental

Speaker 1 (33m 15s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (33m 16s): And to know it wasn’t a mind, fuck. It was a here’s who you really are. You just have to see it.

Speaker 1 (33m 25s): That’s

Speaker 2 (33m 25s): Cool. And the catharsis I had after that scene was amazing. I could just list people one right after the other. I mean, Michelle

Speaker 1 (33m 34s): And I read the list. I read the list you put in the materials you sent me. So there’s a lot, there’s a lot. There’s two.

Speaker 2 (33m 40s): Definitely. I have people like Michelle McNichols, who is the professor of the most popular class at the university of Washington with over 4,500 students coming through it every year on sex education. Wow. And she came on and talked about the fact that we need to lighten up my gosh, we need to lighten

Speaker 1 (34m 1s): Up.

Speaker 2 (34m 2s): And the fact that she is the most popular professor, isn’t just because of sex education, but because she makes it like everybody can understand it. There you go. That’s a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (34m 13s): Keep it fun. So tell us about the process of bringing these guests on the show and your reaction. Once you’ve interviewed them.

Speaker 2 (34m 22s): As I mentioned, I’m a little fearless when it comes to asking people. Sure. I will find people that I find interesting on Instagram and I’ll follow them for a while. And if I think there’ll be a good fit on the show, I’ll reach out to them. I will try to find emails wherever possible. When I want to get ahold of people. I Luckily had done some things with sunny Megatron. So I was able to reach out to Sonny and, and she knew exactly who I was Madorie was our first big get, I think, as far as absolute superstars, along with Christina Carter.

And here’s the, here’s the story I should tell about that. Christina Carter was on my second ever show,

Speaker 1 (35m 6s): Right?

Speaker 2 (35m 7s): I hadn’t been on. And why would Christina Carter as amazing a fetish model as she is, want to be on my show? And I asked her, I said, Christina, what does your inbox look like? She said, you mean the 81,000 red messages that I have?

Speaker 1 (35m 27s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (35m 28s): I said, well, how the hell did you read mine? She said, it was pretty simple. Your email addresses women and other wonderful humans at Gmail com. Yeah. And I had to look at that one.

Speaker 1 (35m 40s): Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that.

Speaker 2 (35m 43s): And so you’ll never get a yes. Unless you actually ask. And there are some people that I have been persistent, not obnoxious, but persistent with

Speaker 1 (35m 56s): Right.

Speaker 2 (35m 57s): Alexandra, snow being one of them who is an amazing pro Dom from here in, in Ohio. And she said, you’ve been patient. Let’s do the show. Yeah. It took me a year. But the fact is I always treated her with respect. I always approached her kindly. And that’s how you do it. I dress like guys asking for a date, do it rhythm, respect, show their proper reverence.

Yup. And people say, yes,

Speaker 1 (36m 30s): That’s the way people should do everything. Do you still have some dream guests you’d like to get on? He laughs.

Speaker 2 (36m 38s): I’ve had a lot of them, which is the funny thing. Simone justice is one that I am very much wanting to get on. And she has told me that this summer we will do it. She is one of the first superstar dominatrices that I know of out of Dallas. She’s somebody that I desperately want on the show. Cool. There are some fetish models that I would absolutely love to get on the show. One of whom of course is D Devonte’s.

That would be a dream guest on this particular show because I think it would be fascinating to find out how much of Dita Von Teese. The character is the same as the human that plays it,

Speaker 1 (37m 24s): Where you go.

Speaker 2 (37m 25s): And so that I think if you had a top of the bucket list, that would probably be at right now, but I keep discovering new people every single day, Jean Bardo, who is a amazing pioneer when it comes to both rubber fetish and being a pro Dom, I had Jean on the show and I gave her five weeks of hype, super Dom’s a super model, everything super I could think of. And I had her on the show and she couldn’t have been nicer.

Speaker 1 (37m 57s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (37m 58s): And when I go to, when I go to kinky college, I’m taking a side trip up to Minneapolis because I’m going to be fortunate enough to have lunch with Jean Bardo.

Speaker 1 (38m 10s): Cool. That will

Speaker 2 (38m 11s): Be the first guests that I’ve actually met. That wasn’t one of my friends, because this has all been on zoom. So I’m hoping to eventually get to the point where my ultimate dream is to be able to go to a Dom con or a FET con and through my basis of being a television host and, and talent, and also being a talent for live events. I want to be able to be the one that can moderate panels like they do at Comicons and they also do fetish cons.

Yeah. And so that’s what my, my ultimate goal is right now is to be able to go out and experience these people and bring my talents out into the public where I can make some great connections.

Speaker 1 (38m 55s): Yes. Or, or like LeBron bring your talents to a Miami.

Speaker 2 (39m 0s): Don’t get me started on.

Speaker 1 (39m 3s): I couldn’t resist. Since you mentioned Cleveland for awhile, I just couldn’t resist. Sorry. That was, that was one of the worst moments ever on television. I thought, what did nanny get? How do we, yeah. Moderating is good. I’ve, I’ve moderated a lot of panels at the adult B2B shows and yeah, it’s, it’s certainly always very gratifying. So

Speaker 2 (39m 28s): Not really the things Bruce pardon me for interrupting. One of the things that I love about the interviews that I do is, and this sounds like it’s a brag, but it’s going to be a humble brag because I don’t have it anymore. I got rid of, I got rid of my ego and life became so much better, But at the end of most, every one of my interviews, the subjects will go, well, damn, I didn’t expect that. Or that was the most different interview I’ve ever done.

Or the one that I love you didn’t ask me the question. I said, what question? You know, where’s the strangest place you’ve done it. And I’m like, I’m not even thinking of that. I don’t even give a shit about that. And to have people tell me that this was their favorite interview that they’ve ever done. That’s what I live for. Yeah. Because these women are objectified every single day. And to have them have someone interview them as a human that’s a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (40m 33s): Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s everything should be. So how do we find the show?

Speaker 2 (40m 39s): It’s very easy. If you know what link tree is go to link tree, which they go by, L I N K T R. Then you put the.in there and put an E and then hits slash what women want podcast. Very good. And that link tree has how you can find us on Spotify, or you can find us on apple or iHeart or any one of the major podcast places we are on pretty much all of them.

And w would love for you all to join us. And you can find the show on Twitter at what women want. P one, if you’re an AGA styles fan, you can remember that one, but what women want P one and then on Instagram, we’re at what women want podcast

Speaker 1 (41m 29s): And how about if they want to be on the show?

Speaker 2 (41m 31s): They want to be on the show. Simply drop me a line, a direct message. I read all my direct messages on Instagram and on and on Twitter. And I think I have ways to get ahold of me. You can get ahold of me through FetLife at hi there, catsuit any, any way you try to get ahold of me. I’m more than happy to say, okay, I need an email from you and I’ll send you all the details on the show and we start our communication and our connection like that.

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): That’s that’s awesome. So discuss some of the differences and you’ve, you mentioned one with the, with the gal’s mother, but discuss some of the differences you’re making in the lives of some of your guests.

Speaker 2 (42m 13s): I think we are allowing them to be seen in a light that they are not used to be seen in. If you think of, let’s say a professional dominatrix, most, every reaction to them is yes. Mistress. I want you to, I want you to be on top of me, mistress. I want to go on my knees for you. I want to worship your feet.

Speaker 1 (42m 37s): Right.

Speaker 2 (42m 37s): But I’m interviewing the person outside of the latex catsuit,

Speaker 1 (42m 42s): Right? Because it’s a role

Speaker 2 (42m 44s): Correct. Now, in some cases, it’s very much who they are.

Speaker 1 (42m 49s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (42m 51s): I’m have a, if you could call this person, my, my one crush of anybody that I have had on the show, their name is matrix, dominate tricks, rubber fetishists, and fitness instructor. Oh. Who inspired me to get back to working out to the point where I work out every day.

Speaker 1 (43m 17s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (43m 18s): And I didn’t do that before I interviewed her on the show.

Speaker 1 (43m 21s): So she made a difference in your life.

Speaker 2 (43m 23s): That’s right. Big

Speaker 1 (43m 25s): Time.

Speaker 2 (43m 26s): Yeah. And I will tell a story because it just happened. So we were going to have her back. We were going to have them back on the show and we started talking and they had been through a real health issue Over the past eight months to the point where they got really sick And it took everything. They had to be able to get back up and even work or even work out.

Speaker 1 (43m 51s): Yeah,

Speaker 2 (43m 52s): Lost a lot of weight, became very difficult for them. And I’m talking about this journey and we go to break because my voice is breaking. I’m starting to sound emotional. And we start talking and we’re in the break and we just keep talking and keep talking. And after about 45 minutes, I said, I feel really bad because I, I really think we need to reschedule the podcast.

And she said, I had already decided we were going to, she said, or they said gender fluid. And sometimes at 58 years old, I get it wrong. They said to me, they said to me, John, you needed me to talk to you tonight more than you needed me on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (44m 48s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (44m 49s): And we finished our conversation and I was in tears and I was able to get myself feeling a little bit better. Yeah. And we rescheduled the podcast, but we also vowed to each other that we would meet up, spend the day together and get to know each other a lot better. That’s

Speaker 1 (45m 9s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (45m 9s): So I believe I’ve made the difference in like lady Vi’s life or in a HUD Seabrook, formerly known as Hotsy Han’s life. And I’ve been able to present people in ways that they’ve never been presented before, but

Speaker 1 (45m 26s): The people

Speaker 2 (45m 26s): I get a tremendous love out of it. And I feel the connection that I have with many of these people. Now I will also tell you, it can be a curse as well, because when you’ve done almost a hundred shows, talking about everything, like the feeling that you would have inside a vacuum, latex vacuum bed and the piece you can find inside it, or some sort of, some sort of session that is done, where you’re at total peace with yourself and it lasts for hours.

And you talk about this and you sit back and you go, am I ever going to get to experience it? And that can be tough because I’m talking about things that I dream of.

Speaker 1 (46m 17s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (46m 18s): So I don’t know if I’m torturing myself when I do that, or if I just want them to be able to share the story. Sure. And I’m hoping that somewhere along the lines, because many of the people I talked to her professional dominatrix is it’s not proper for me to say, Hey, I had you on the show. Why don’t you do this with me? Because it’s their vocation. It is their job. It’s like asking.

Speaker 1 (46m 44s): Yeah. It’s like asking a doctor to treat you for free. That, that doesn’t work.

Speaker 2 (46m 48s): Right.

Speaker 1 (46m 49s): Yeah. I agree.

Speaker 2 (46m 51s): So I will tell you that many of them have just told me that just to, to hang in there and keep believing and that I will be able to enjoy the experiences because I’m paying it forward.

Speaker 1 (47m 4s): Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47m 6s): I don’t one day I hope I will.

Speaker 1 (47m 8s): You are most certainly. So when you’re presenting at a kink convention, what kind of classes do you teach?

Speaker 2 (47m 15s): Well, I talked about the three classes that I’m going to present. And the next one I’ll talk about here is a kindness in kink.

Speaker 1 (47m 24s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (47m 24s): One of the things that I have noticed with many of my friends is that many of the top, and this comes to me, both male and female is many of the tops will be very set in their ways about wanting to do one kind of scene. And a lot of it is very intense and some of it can be nice, but it’s usually very intense or, or trying to bring focus for something. Well, I have developed this way of topping in the few times that the topic catsuit, that’s a hashtag toppy catsuit, because it’s a thing very rarely does topic catsuit ever come out to play.

Speaker 1 (48m 5s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (48m 6s): But when I do, I will do scenes that people will say to me afterwards, I’ve never been treated that kindly before. Doesn’t mean that I didn’t hit them with a paddle. It doesn’t mean that I didn’t hit them with a soup ladle, which happens to be my favorite toy from a dollar store. And it leaves wonderful bruises. But what they feel is what I say to them in between. I’m hitting you with this ladle over and over in this one spot.

So when you get to the office on Wednesday and you’re having a really crappy time and you’re all stressed out, you can reach down and touch that bruise and come right back to where we are now

Speaker 6 (48m 51s): Nice.

Speaker 2 (48m 52s): Or I will, if they’ve had a really rough week and let’s say they, they might not feel good about their body image. I’ll, I’ll do a series of impact moves and then I’ll go to them. And I said, you do realize that you’re absolutely beautiful in the way you’re responding to this.

Speaker 6 (49m 13s): Hmm. Nice.

Speaker 2 (49m 15s): Instead of you sh you should be happy and count these off for me. Yeah, no, that’s not what I asked. And the biggest example I can give is a scene that was done at winter wickedness, where a friend of mine who had had a really rough time getting back into the kink scene, had a bad relationship, bad breakup, and had gained about 40 pounds. Wasn’t happy with the body image at all. A friend of mine said, I want to do a scene with her and I want you to co-taught.

And I said, I don’t want to co-taught, but here’s what I want to do. I want to provide her with something to really remember the scene by

Speaker 1 (49m 57s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (49m 58s): And make her feel the way she wants to feel. So the top tied her up with her arms, to the side, blindfolded her, and did an impact scene.

Speaker 1 (50m 10s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (50m 11s): And between the impacts, I had gathered her friends and we whispered into her ear things like your beauty comes from your heart and your heart is the most beautiful thing in this building.

Speaker 6 (50m 24s): Guys,

Speaker 2 (50m 25s): You give so much to so many that all we ever want to do is give back to you.

Speaker 1 (50m 31s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (50m 32s): Say quote, after quote saying, after saying yeah. In between these hard impacts.

Speaker 1 (50m 40s): Yeah. Interesting.

Speaker 2 (50m 41s): At the end of the scene, they take off her blindfold and I’m standing in front of her holding a small, I think it’s three by five notebook. And we had all written what we had said to her in that notebook.

Speaker 1 (50m 58s): It’s sweet.

Speaker 2 (50m 59s): And what we said is this is a notebook to remind you of where you were tonight.

Speaker 1 (51m 5s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51m 6s): And when you have a doubt as to the difference you make in our lives, open it up, read it and remember,

Speaker 1 (51m 14s): And that my friend, I guess, is what women want.

Speaker 2 (51m 17s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (51m 19s): Well, John, on that note, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I know we’ll have a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (51m 27s): I absolutely enjoyed every minute, Bruce, thank you very much for being so persistent, but never rude.

Speaker 1 (51m 34s): I do my best. Thank you, sir. My broker tip today is part five of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about how to determine the value of a site, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement. What should be in it while your attorney will guide you through the legal side. But here’s some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint, what is the date you’d like to close?

Make sure you know, that you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date, I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. In fact, I’m going through some of that right now with a couple of my deals, make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records, including 2, 2, 5, 7 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites.

Of course, this should spell out any payment schedule. If there is one who’s responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow. And there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller situation, this assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your legal representative so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Norman Jean of junk productions

Speaker 7 (53m 18s): And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Jon of What Women Want. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Alex Leconte of 7veils.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, actually our property of the week, this week, as a reminder that we always have some private listings available. In addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters right now, we have a cam site dating sites and pay sites available. We often have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their cider company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons.

These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyer’s NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify now, time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Alex Lacan, director of one of the industry’s preeminent social media companies, seven veils Alex, thanks for being back with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 42s): Thank you very much for having me. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (2m 46s): Quiet

Speaker 1 (2m 47s): Alex. He previously worked in the traffic world prior to joining seven veils that would make seven veils unique as they recognize how the needs of adult entertainment, social marketing differs from mainstream, and they create successful marketing strategies that work with adult entertainment to create deliverable results and long-term success on social networks. Both the company and Alex have won multiple awards. Lauren McEwen founded the company in 2010 with just herself as a one woman company.

A couple of years later named Alex’s director. The company has grown to a large group of social media experts through statistical analysis of your social marketing campaign that create a social media strategy that burst through the ceiling of diminishing returns. It’s responsive to your growth patterns and predictive of overall social media trends. They ensure that their engagement, marketing and analytics work cohesively to create an unbeatable social media presence. So how’d you like your commercial?

Speaker 2 (3m 49s): I love it. I should, I should broadcast it at the shows.

Speaker 1 (3m 54s): I’ll let you. Okay. So Alex, how is our friend Lauren doing and what is she doing?

Speaker 2 (4m 2s): Oh, she’s doing, she’s doing great. You know, so, you know, Lauren, well, she’s fascinating. So yeah, she, we went through the pandemic, you know, everybody had a hard time, but she really took advantage of that to, to read a lot of books and cultivate and you know, self-growth, I’m such a fan of her. She’s doing well. Thank you. Missing the shows.

Speaker 1 (4m 26s): Yeah. We’re missing her. She was always, she always lit up those shows.

Speaker 2 (4m 30s): Oh yes, she is. She’s amazing.

Speaker 1 (4m 32s): She is that indeed. So what’s the state of social media marketing today for adult businesses.

Speaker 2 (4m 41s): The technical word is fucked up. It’s all fucked up, but it’s still very profitable and it’s actually really powerful. You know, I was reading, I was very happy to see that because we’ve been saying this for years and now the truths are coming. I was reading a report from exams, does that and the light and insights. And they were saying that for example, for content creators, like only fans and stuff for the models, the top one source of traffic is by 41% social media.

So it is clearly it’s chaotic. It’s really, the pandemic really hurt in a certain way. Social media platforms. It it’s more crowded than ever. The, the messages are really chaotic. You know, there is a lot of information, a lot of noise and parasite rabbits and stuff, but the power is there. It’s clearly the place to be. So it is still very profitable.

Speaker 1 (5m 39s): How has the pandemic changed? Social media marketing?

Speaker 2 (5m 44s): We’ve identified two main aspects that we are presenting as a big change from as a consequence from the pandemic. So first of all, it’s, as I was saying, very crowded. So now a lot of people are using social media even more than before they are. They are really using it massively, or they want to entertain themselves or to educate themselves, which is really questionable to use social media to get a indication, but they are. Yeah, so they are tweeting a lot, posting a lot, sharing a lot and commenting a lot, giving you a lot of opinions, sometimes even unnecessary.

So this all create, this all create a huge amount of data to analyze and to process that even, you know, kind of visual pollution. So a lot of messages it’s really harder for companies to make their message go through. And the other thing that we’ve identified is that demeaning is different. You know, we’ve always, so just to our claim to avoid controversial like religion and political and stuff, but because of the pandemic, we saw that it is also important to make a statement and to take a position on social media and not necessarily to be controversial, but at least, you know, to, to make things clear.

Speaker 1 (7m 6s): Yeah, that’d be human. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (7m 8s): Social, the human

Speaker 1 (7m 10s): There’s a lot of people who are a little, a little less than that on social media. And that gets to my next question. Now I know you work primarily with Twitter. How hard is it for a message to break through with all the garbage and all the fighting that’s going on over there?

Speaker 2 (7m 27s): It’s very hard. And we, we, we work with all the platforms we do. I love Twitter in a way that it’s one of the most adult friendlies, of course, for our business. It’s the ROI is really significant on Twitter. And it’s also the balance between, you know, the, the time investment for the client, because it’s very slow to get a social marketing campaign applied. So of course on Twitter, they can see a little bit more thanks to the data and the, the reports that we can pull out.

So that’s why I really like to work with Twitter as a main source, as a primary source. So yeah, it’s, it has become very confusing too, for the companies to get their message delivered. And I always have this image of the movie, you know, sister act where the, the girl is saying, she’s making an analogy between, between a bar and the, the concert they’re giving. And she said, it’s like, you’re in it, you’re in a bar. And everybody’s talking, everybody’s asking for the check, you know, making noise and stuff, and you’re at the opposite and you need to get some buddy hearing you.

So that’s exactly the way you need to make to get your voice louder. But of course, we are talking about platforms where you will post video pictures and texts. So how can you make your voice louder? First of all, you need to clean the way. So for this, you need to make sure that your message will be delivered. And for this it’s the old techniques of SEO. We don’t work with search engine optimization for, for, for Google, but we do apply the techniques based the algorithms analyzes that we run for Twitter and all the other social media platforms.

So first of all, you’ve seen the way making sure that you’re, you create a sort of a map of, of the situation. And so you can get your message, they leave it in a, in a, in the proper way. But then of course, this is the, the pure information. And then you have to work on the packaging. So your message is open. So if which the target is, which is the target, and then you need to gain trust. So you have to, to put your message, to codify your message in a certain way, that it will make through this crowd and enrich your target, but then that it will be appealing enough.

So this person is opening your message and receiving a message.

Speaker 1 (9m 40s): Interesting. And with Twitter being that crowded, are there any other challenges?

Speaker 2 (9m 46s): Yes, it’s always very hard to, well, all in all, in all social media, it’s very hard because they are privately owned. So it is hard to rely a sustainable strategy because you never know what’s going to happen if they decide to get rid of adults, which there is nothing pointing to this direction right now for Twitter, which is great. They’ve been really friendly with. Yeah, that’s great. So this is a big challenge for social media because it’s privately owned. So you need to always be, you know, aware of the rules and the terms of conditions.

So if they have clear statements about what they consider appropriate or not, it’s okay. That in some cases like Instagram is very, very hard to, to define if the countries, if the piece of content will be offensive for some people conservative. Probably. So. Yeah. That’s the big challenge.

Speaker 1 (10m 42s): I think some things will offend anybody.

Speaker 2 (10m 46s): Yeah. That’s, that’s a big issue, you know, and that’s something that we I’ve recently written something about how dealing with our industry changes us. It affects us, you know, my, my big patient in licensed psychology, especially neuro and behavioral. And, and for, of course, working in this industry for, for example, I’m, I’ve been in the industry for 12 years and it changes, impacts oneself, you know, very, very hard. And so sometimes it’s true that our limits are a little bit changed. Some things that really, you know, we are talking sometimes, and we don’t see that we are saying things that people might consider in appropriate.

And for us, it’s not what we were just talking about. Double penetration,

Speaker 1 (11m 29s): Right?

Speaker 2 (11m 31s): Yeah. If it is,

Speaker 1 (11m 36s): You know, you’ve, you, you said you’ve been in the industry 12 years, I’ve known you every one of those years.

Speaker 2 (11m 41s): How

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): Do you feel the industry has changed you?

Speaker 2 (11m 45s): Oh, that’s an awful question. Thanks, Tara would be so happy. It did change me a lot, you know, at the beginning, I didn’t want to come to, to join this industry because I was, I, I thought I was open-minded, but so it’s a long talk that I had with, with my, with my ex-wife about back then, I was still married and I was a big jump, you know, getting to work with porn, even if back then I started with traffic.

So I wasn’t dealing with content creation.

Speaker 1 (12m 20s): Is that why she’s in by the way? Is that why she’s an ex-wife

Speaker 2 (12m 27s): So she, so yeah, it was a big decision, you know, to, to take a job in the industry. And I actually, I thought I was up in mind, but I discovered that I was judging, especially on the fetish side, you know, I had some meetings and it was hilarious. I was lucky enough to have this amazing coworker back then when I started and the French and that she’s running so many shows, she’s really an amazing person too. And just like Lauren, there are the kinds of people that I really admire for this energy to have and his patients and his humanity.

And so she, she was next to me at the office and she was hilarious because she was showing me content, but she wasn’t making fun of it. So it was more trying to educate me on here. See, so this is like a foot fetish or whatever. And I was like, yeah. Okay. And so indirectly, she and the, in the industry taught me how to, to accept all these diversity and, and, and not to judge anyone and make everyone comfortable. I had some meetings with clients back then that were hilarious because I felt like I was dying inside when the person was explaining the artistic project they had, but some projects were really creative and really different from the usual common fetishes.

So it was, it was an exterior it’s really significant and meaningful. So this changed me a lot. It really broke my barriers. And it’s, I’m very thankful for that.

Speaker 1 (14m 0s): Yeah. I think all of us, when we come from mainstream, it’s we start out with our eyes bugging out and now we just shrug our shoulders.

Speaker 2 (14m 8s): Yeah. You know how I feel about that when I hear, and it happens because we see that at the shows, there are more and more mainstream people. And I’m sorry, it’s not about, I don’t want to offend anyone. It’s not about being offensive. It’s just that for me, the way I see it and the way I receive it, it’s like having kids around and I’m not saying this to be disrespectful. It’s just that, you know, how, and I’m going to take the typical example of straight man. They’re always such an interesting case for me about, you know, seeing somebody like, if you see a woman without a bra.

Oh baby. That’s that’s that’s yeah. That’s what it is. Human. Body’s beautiful. So interesting. You know, this energy and excitement that they have for something that is kind of okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14m 59s): Yeah. So, okay. So she, so she took her, so she took her blouse off where she raised her blouse up to show her tits for a photographer. You know, it’s just like you get so used to it. You don’t even blink.

Speaker 2 (15m 11s): Yes. And you appreciate it in a different way. Like, for example, for me, I’m, oh, I appreciate the way, you know, all, all the models are empowered by their body and transcend that in some way. Maybe it’s too philosophical, but certainly at a, some level, they are very empowered. And I admire that so much, you know, and some conversation, or even about my past and everything, when some people are, I’m talking to people out of the industry and the, oh, wow. They’re very judgmental. There are.

And even hypocritical most of the time, which is unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (15m 46s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ocracy has enforced unfortunate and it’s a, it’s everywhere. So with so many platforms doing bands and you kind of alluded to this, where can you actually market an adult company where there won’t be any issues

Speaker 2 (16m 4s): Everywhere. That’s an awesome question. Thanks for asking, because we’ve had this talk with, actually with Lauren, two days ago, we were preparing a piece of content for our seven veil social media channels. And you can actually work with if it’s platform, you know, it’s, it’s all about the branding and all about the positioning of your brand. You just need to adapt. Of course, the, the, the goal behind is going to be different. If you want to generate, for example, I just want to generate traffic of an Instagram campaign.

When I’m saying campaign, I’m talking about seven bills campaign. So it’s different from what red companies like Dan, you know, German that I never even that I feel terrible. I can’t pronounce his last name, but he’s a legit authority in social media marketing. He is going to a lot of shows and he’s doing a lot of cloaking and very interesting work, you know, based on redirection and stuff. She’s brilliant. And, and Jason Hunt with all the Facebook campaigns, you know,

Speaker 1 (17m 9s): He’s been on my show twice. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (17m 11s): No, surprise is very interesting. I love to listen to what he has to say. And so it’s very interesting because they have these two companies are doing social media, but on a different aspect on what we are doing. So when I’m saying seven bills, campaigns, it’s all about organic and community management and really based on human interactions, you know, so it is possible to work with a lot of platforms with, for example, Instagram, you cannot announce porn. So it would be more recommended to work on the lifestyle stuff.

Or if you have fetish, for example, super easy example. I four foot fetish client of mine, not of seven belts, I’ve just posted some. So I’m, I’m a fighter martial arts, since I’m a kid. And it’s funny because we did a sort of shoot session at, in my private life when we were at the dojo. And then I just posted the pictures for one of the plan, because he has a foot fetish and I’m barefoot fighting. So, you know, you can use something from a different enemy that when you look at it on social media, it doesn’t look sexual.

It doesn’t look like a fetish. It doesn’t look like something provocative or something made to, to, to excite someone that because of the, of the element itself, you can just kind of twist it and use the platform to your advantage. I don’t know if I make myself clear, but it’s all about rebuilding your, your content and be creative around it, you know, to, to just find a way to make it compliant with the platform you’re using, but still promoting your business in a very discrete way.

Speaker 1 (18m 50s): But I hear people say, well, I did this, this, this, and this. And I got banned and I don’t understand. There’s a lot of that going on. Isn’t there.

Speaker 2 (18m 59s): Oh yeah. All the time. And most of the time, I’m sorry to say that. Most of the times, because people are not rigorous. I’m not saying that if they do everything in the state of the art, they will be safe. Because again, this, that phones are privately owned. So you cannot, we have to play by their rules. And even though they can even break the rules, the platform itself, and it’s totally unfair, especially Instagram, it’s really annoying sometimes.

But most of the time, what we have identified, most of the models, we tell them that they cannot post any nudity on Instagram and they still put there. But, and I’m sorry to let everyone know that even if you are naked, but is on Instagram, well, it’s still considered as nudity. So see, it’s a problem then you also have, Right. But again, that’s the limit about our industry, because for us, if we see someone but naked, it’s going to be okay. Yeah.

And we don’t, sometimes we don’t see the problem with it. And of course we are dealing with platforms that are very conservative. So if we do that, they are shocked because, oh my God, that’s, nobody has never saw an ad. It’s really unfair. And it makes you feel bad. You know, sometimes you just post a beautiful picture. You’re a beautiful woman and you’re in a bikini and using a song and, and very glamorous, you know, like Vixen style, very beautiful. And then Instagram makes you feel bad about yourself because you’re using something too sexy for them.

So yeah, it’s a, it’s a problem. But then also the behavior, the behavior is such an issue.

Speaker 1 (20m 41s): Right? Right. Yeah. I got banned from Facebook for a month for wishing a friend happy.

Speaker 2 (20m 48s): That’s very hard to understand why they, two weeks ago they sent me a notification that I was violating the rule for bullying, because I just comment a comment that I made was U E w and they found it offensive.

Speaker 1 (21m 4s): Mr. Mr. And Mrs. AI. Didn’t like it. I mean, isn’t all this stuff. Pretty much being run by machines now.

Speaker 2 (21m 16s): Yes. The first level of check is by the algorithm. So it’s all about, it’s a very powerful tool that they’ve developed. Of course, they have a lot of resources, human brains and, and finances. So they, they develop their algorithm is just, you know, when you’re posting a picture of the analyzing, if there is any nudity or fans, blood, this kind of harmful behaviors based on their guidelines. And then if it requires a manual check, it goes to a tier two where they evaluate, if the post is, is bad or respectful,

Speaker 1 (21m 53s): But you have to challenge it.

Speaker 2 (21m 55s): Yes. And it’s again, not to get too philosophical about that. It’s, it’s complicated because the appropriate or not, it’s a very subjective notion that depends on people. So if somebody, and even if the mood, you know, it’s just like a judge you’re coming at work, you’re tired. If somebody is just pissing you off, maybe your patients will be reduced. So when you’re in that post and you’ll discover, oh, this girl is too sexy. Oh yeah. Bam. And sometimes you’re just in a good mood and oh yeah, she’s sexy, but it’s fine shift you.

And you’re just ready to go. So it’s, it’s unfair.

Speaker 1 (22m 29s): Yeah. And it’s very, it’s, it’s very unfair in any time you’ve got you can, it, it can depend on people’s moods and it influences people’s businesses. That’s, you know, that’s just not right.

Speaker 2 (22m 43s): See, Bruce, that’s exactly the point. That’s why it’s such a problem because we are talking about something, social and human, but we are using it for business. And that’s the, one of the biggest challenge that I’ve seen over the years at seven bells that we need to work with a mix of it because we wanted the business, but we need to keep it social. So that’s a very, very hard thing to, to work with, but it’s also why it’s so interesting.

Speaker 1 (23m 6s): Yeah, no, absolutely. No, I’m sure it’s very interesting on a daily basis. So I notice a lot more influencer marketing now, just how valuable is that

Speaker 2 (23m 18s): It is very valuable. It’s also very annoying to deal with. I think, I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong. I would love to hear from somebody, but to be somebody, to be honest about that, if they really enjoy working with influencer marketing, it’s really stressful because it’s something that is not solid. It’s really a risky investment, but of course I do become, and for people, for companies, individuals, et cetera, is they can use and influence a deal to promote their company or service or brand.

Of course, it’s a, it’s a great asset. If you can have someone very influential with a decent amount of followers, but also qualified followers, you know, that are matching your strategy. It is very powerful of course, to associate your brand to some it’s very risky because, you know, that’s the first thing you learn that public relations and marketing school where you associate your brand with a human being, this person can commit mistakes. So if this person is just, you know, being at some point in a, in a, in a scandal, then it can hurt your brand if you’re getting too close to it.

And some, but if they’re doing everything great and even, you know, being lucky or great people or whatever, then your, your deal is very worthy. Of course.

Speaker 1 (24m 36s): Hmm. I wonder if Ron Jeremy was anybody’s influencer.

Speaker 2 (24m 39s): Yeah. We all have our circles of influences, you know, it’s yeah. There is always a potential, there is always a segment. There is always some way to, to, to use more influencer marketing. It’s just that it’s very stressful because it’s hard to quantify, to analyze the KPIs are really emptier and very hard to predict. So it’s, you know, I love that for me. Best case was the fire festival. It’s an amazing story. You know, using influencer marketing and we have some old influencers, the first influencer for me was very silt and the way she, she used her image and the way she didn’t make anything, she was just using her, her background and name and behavior, et cetera, to, to create her brand.

So that’s typically, I mean,

Speaker 1 (25m 29s): I walked past Barron Hilton and a hallway once at a Hilton hotel just to let you know.

Speaker 2 (25m 34s): Nice

Speaker 1 (25m 34s): Though. Yeah. See I’m somebody.

Speaker 2 (25m 38s): So fashion makes me laugh a lot. She’s very fun.

Speaker 1 (25m 42s): Yeah. She’s, she’s quite good at what she does. What does she do? I know.

Speaker 2 (25m 47s): Very interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25m 50s): So how do you pick the right influencer then? Let’s say you’re a, you’ve got a client who wants a high level influencer. What steps do you go through to make sure you’re new? You’ve picked the right person.

Speaker 2 (26m 3s): Oh, I don’t want to promote anyone that just, you know, I it’s easier if we put names on it. I’m not a big fan of doing this because it’s free promotion. So I don’t like to promote anyone for free, but a part of friendship, a part of partnerships, I would like to take two examples. If, for example, you want your market, you need to do companies need to be more organized. This is a fact that people come to us to do social media, but they are, they didn’t take care of the base and social media marketing.

There is the word marketing in it. So it relies on data and market studies. And it’s very old session in this, in this way. So you need to identify what is your market? What is it? What are your segments? Who is your core target? Who is your competition, et cetera, your pricing, your branding, the mapping of your values, et cetera. It’s very basic. And this people can find it in online for free in books, et cetera. So the popular of marketing, a lot of books about that. So first of all, if for example, let’s say your product is a luxury and a, your core target are women between women with a power of acquisition.

So let’s say a high power of acquisition, let’s say a tough brand, you know, high quality, et cetera, injury for the European market that you want to sell over Western Europe. Finally, I would definitely run with no doubt to Texas petty German porn star based in between California and Europe. And yeah, for me, she is one of the, she’s an iconic influencer because,

Speaker 1 (27m 49s): And Patrick or husband or outstanding. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (27m 52s): They are, they are really professional. So that’s of course the main thing you want to find about an influencer because you don’t want to give money or, or pets sponsor anything with somebody that is not stable. You know, someone that is not fair or transparent, et cetera. And she has these qualities about being organized about her business, et cetera. She is an established brand and she totally fits in this. So she, when you have your elements of marketing, when you know who you want to reach, she just, you know, fit in because she has this double culture between the us and Western Europe.

And she’s an established brand. She’s very essential. She’s very beautiful. Production is sustainable. So, you know, it’s all about making match between a match between the offer and the demon. Same if you are like a sex story finished, like story kind of hardcore fuck machine. We had this client that they, they, they had this machine that where you can fuck yourself, you know? And Yeah, I think it’s mainly for vagina and NSX.

I don’t know.

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): Maybe not, maybe, maybe not.

Speaker 2 (28m 57s): I mean, you should try it.

Speaker 1 (29m 1s): I don’t think so. You go ahead. Thanks.

Speaker 2 (29m 4s): So typically I would run to someone with a big audience in fetish, someone very empowered, someone very vocal about, you know, enjoying this. So a porn star would be the best for fetish. I like to, I know that there is a big market and different segments that I like to test first with the game market, because I’m speaking higher cover of acquisition, plus a behavioral tendency of testing, more products, a little bit less afraid of new stuff.

So yeah, I would run to the Dominica Pacifical gay porn star and director in Vegas because he has a lot of productions about that. You know, he has his only fans, his productions is. So it’s all about analyzing your market, what you want to do with your product, who you want to reach and see who has the tools to do that. And for this, you can check the person on social media because they are sure it’s public. They are showing everything they are doing. So you can see if this person has a form of channel. If this person has who the followers are, because you can click on followers and you can see if there are only, you know, people that are not relevant for your business, then it’s not a good influencer.

Speaker 1 (30m 20s): Right? Right. How, when you just mentioned followers and it brought about a question that seems to be so important to some people and they actually go on and buy followers, do you think that’s a good idea?

Speaker 2 (30m 32s): It’s a terrible idea. It’s for so many reasons. The first reason is that it hurts your business. For example, my Instagram account, I have a large amount of followers more than I do because no, no, no, no, no, no, that’s not. But see, that’s why it’s very interesting because I am absolutely not that interesting. I have like 10 K followers or something. I am not entertaining these people. And we can tell by the likes. So sometimes I just want to tell them please and follow me because for the algorithm, it’s a bad thing.

Because if the platform sees that you have so many people that are following you, but not a lot of people that are liking you, it means that what you’re producing, what you’re posting is not interesting, just like in my case, because I am personal friend of some influential people in our industry and beautiful porn stars and creative people, their fans, when they are posting and their stuff and tagging me all in the stories of when we are traveling or having private moment in our private lives, people are just thinking that they will get more information about these people like following me, but at the same time.

So, so the discrepancy between the followers, the followers and the likes is bad because the algorithm is just seeing that, okay, this, this person might have been interesting at some point, but now what she’s doing, it’s not interesting. So buying fake followers is not helping you plus it completely messed up your, your stats because you don’t know at the end, who is really here on your account for you. If you’re reaching new amount, if you don’t know who is real and not, and also it’s clearly a vanity issue is something that required therapy.

For sure. It’s, you know, because this is business and your company, if you’re selling, I always take this example of this bakery in my neighborhood. If we are 200,000 people in my neighborhood, why would they want a million followers? Because people are, have coming from another city or another country just to buy bread. You know? So people need to come down and it’s normal. If somebody like accommodation, they have a lot of amount of followers because their, their visibility is way higher.

Now, if you are a very niche product, if you are, let’s say, I dunno, a fish that is very a small community. Let’s say foot fetish. It’s not even a small community. It’s a, it’s one of the biggest players. If you’re a foot fetish, well, you only talk to a certain amount of people. You know, a certain percentage of the people that have this fetish. So you cannot expect to get a hundred percent of the, of the main sex activity followers. You will only have the people with this fetish interest in the fish. So the numbers people need to, to put away their, their vanity and their pathological need to be liked to, to really face the reality and the numbers to, to review it.

You know, if you have a thousand followers, oh my God. That’s a lot of people. Can you imagine the thousand followers? It’s already a lot,

Speaker 1 (33m 40s): But by the way, that bakery, by the way, at the bakery, how good is the bread

Speaker 2 (33m 45s): Really good, expensive.

Speaker 1 (33m 46s): Then maybe when maybe I’ll follow them,

Speaker 2 (33m 50s): I’ll give you the account. They make you a discount. If I do their marketing, let’s see. It’s really impressive because people have, they have lost track of this whole it’s common sense. It’s obvious, but they get their ambition and their, their need to be liked and love getting ahead. It’s, it’s a real problem. We see with social media that it came to our life and it developed this anxiety and this need for people to be liked and receive, you know, but it’s, it’s totally explained.

I mean, you know, my, my specialty is neuro marketing. And when you receive a, like, for example, your brain is receiving happiness hormone that is triggering your brain. And it, it lasts 16 minutes in average. And it’s the same area of your brain that is activated just like when you eat chocolate or when you have sex. So when you stop receiving, like you have a drop, you have a drop of hormones. So it makes you feel a bit bad, you know, that it stopped. It’s a craving that you want more and more so it’s human.

It’s just that people need to educate themselves about it.

Speaker 1 (34m 58s): Yeah. So now there are many choices these days for social media management, obviously talk a little bit about what seven veils offers clients in the adult space and why someone should choose you over other companies and consultants

Speaker 2 (35m 13s): When a company or an individual is looking for help and assistance on social media. Of course, they need to check exactly what their needs are. We have many people that are reaching out because they want public relations and we don’t do public relations. We can advise and help with some tips, but it’s not the, the activity that we want to focus on because we really want to dedicate ourselves to social media. So first of all, make sure that your needs are only about social media.

Of course, you can find some companies that are offering a little bit of everything, you know, but in this case they won’t dedicate the same amount of Howard’s and human resources to that. Seven avails is only focusing on social media. So even if we have a part of consultants and consultancy is all oriented to strategies that are using the tools provided by social media platforms. So, so that’s the first step to, to understand what your business is in need for what do you have if you have the material and the content necessary to perform on social media?

What we focus on is really a white hat. So we do everything organic. We don’t do any kind of cloaking or any techniques like that. So it’s interesting if you want to explore that, for example, to check with another company and for us, it’s really about customer service through DMS, social branding, and social values, sharing the photos and the traffic generation, but again, organic. So it’s all about the clicks, the links in the values, the Stripe, the SEO, et cetera.

So that’s what we do. And, but the strengths, in my opinion of seven Wells is that we are a whole team. So we all have different skills and specialties that we can put together and to take the best aspects of it. The fact that you have sex educators, marketers, psychologist, sex workers, it’s a lot of and business people. It’s, it’s a good mix in my opinion, to give your brand a full identity on social media.

Speaker 1 (37m 24s): That’s awesome. So it’s been over a year since, since we spoke what’s new over there,

Speaker 2 (37m 30s): Although where

Speaker 1 (37m 31s): Seven veils,

Speaker 2 (37m 33s): Oh, well, things are, you know, somehow the same because we’re the business, our business didn’t change that much. What changed? It’s the, the context, as I was saying, you know, more tools. So we always try to figure out what is the best way to deliver the message and to make this kind of packaging about how to deliver your message to your audience. So it’s more about adapting, but the core business is still the same because when Lauren started the business, she was really, she had a good vision of it because she knew that social media would really take more importance and it did, it grew.

So we still work the same. We, we, you know, organic way engagement, posting, analyzing, reporting, how it’s about entertaining, educating, you know, and exciting your audience to, to make that. So it’s really interesting. It’s the days already short.

Speaker 1 (38m 35s): So you used to be at every single show I can think of now with the last couple of years, shows being canceled during the pandemic, you’ve been home in Brazil. How has your life changed during this time?

Speaker 2 (38m 48s): It was hard dependent. It affected us all in different ways. Business-wise and another personal level too. So it was a little bit of a hard time, you know, it’s just like if you’re running and all of a sudden you have to stop, you need to, to figure out okay, to calm the body and stuff. So it’s a whole situation. It’s a tragedy. Of course, it’s been demic so many days, it’s all full on, on, on a side note.

What it forced me to do is that at a personal level, it was more about self care, you know, asking stupid things, details, like going to the dentist, something that I, every time I was going to the dentist with the shows, it was more an emergency thing. Like, oh, okay, I’m going to start doing this, but I need to travel somewhere. So it was always in a rush. Now you can take time to take care of yourself, you know, your growth, your personal development, medical, everything, you can, you have more time at home.

So I could finally inbox, you know, it’s, it’s weird and funny, but in March two years ago, I was opening boxes that I had from Asia that I was, that I was keeping from two years, that I didn’t have open and all that. Oh yeah. These bouquets, I didn’t read it yet.

Speaker 1 (40m 8s): Well, you live in a really cool place as do I, you know, you’re at Copa cabana beach for God’s sakes. I mean, it must have been, it must be pretty cool to be there and to be able to do a lot of the nice things you can do there.

Speaker 2 (40m 20s): Yes. Sometimes. Well, when you’re used to it, you don’t measure your how lucky you are. But of course, when I talk to other friends that are living in, in, in different farms, each city, each place has a great thing. You know, like when I hear people from Western Europe, they’re like, oh my God, you’re leaving a safe place. And people are more respectful. And that’s, that should be interesting, but everything is not that I think that I live in a better place. It’s just that it’s a better fit for me, for my personal taste. Sure. So sometimes you’re, you’re very into it and you’re not seeing how lucky you are.

But when I talked to my friends, living in different countries, I, yeah, I think that, of course I, me walking on the beach every morning and doing exercise it’s of course it makes it sweet, but now on the countries, yeah. During the pandemic, it’s cool that we can still, you know, enjoy such a beautiful landscape, et cetera. But on the other side, for example, the government didn’t make a good job at the containment or information. Right. We are one of the worst, or I won’t, I was about to say organized, but it’s not organized at all.

And the good thing is that the population is aware of that, but otherwise, yeah, we live in a beautiful place, but the current government is a big issue.

Speaker 1 (41m 34s): Yep. We got rid of our Trump. You didn’t. So last question. How much are you looking forward to getting back to the shows this year and seeing people?

Speaker 2 (41m 45s): I really wanted to say that the virtual shows were working, but the reality is we need to get back in as soon as it’s safe enough in presidential shows. And I, I was wrong. I thought that we could do everything virtual, but it’s the clearly the facts are here. The situation is that you can keep in touch with people online, but a human real contact is very interesting and very important for business.

And on the personal side. Well, I miss my friends a lot, just like everyone else, I guess. Yeah. So I am, I’m very eager. And I think the next show should be Vegas in January, 2022 for internet.

Speaker 1 (42m 29s): Yes. As we, as yes. As we record this in November at the end of November. Yes, It did it again, Alex. It’s okay.

Speaker 2 (42m 39s): That’s all it is back to the future.

Speaker 1 (42m 42s): It’s back to the future. Well, I’m, I gotta tell you, I’m looking forward to seeing you there. And I miss the hugs. I miss the hugs

Speaker 2 (42m 52s): That I’m with too, or don’t hug me.

Speaker 1 (42m 56s): I’m going to give you a hug. Goddammit.

Speaker 2 (42m 58s): Is that a straight, But I do miss the talk and you know, even the small talks in the elevator or something that there is stimulating for creativity and friendship. I like that.

Speaker 1 (43m 11s): It’s our family. It’s our family.

Speaker 2 (43m 13s): It is. It is.

Speaker 1 (43m 14s): It definitely is. Well, Alex, I’d like to thank you for being back again today and adults, broker talk. Thank you. And I know we’ll get a chance to do it again soon.

Speaker 2 (43m 25s): Thanks a lot. Ruth.

Speaker 1 (43m 26s): My broker tip today is part four of how to buy a website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer. The work begins. If you’re working with a broker, like say, oh, I don’t know, adult site broker, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counter offer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them. A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate.

So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner of new have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day. And then the other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing.

You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask those pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself draw up a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules, but just be ready to have the seller’s attorney changed. Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on.

Another thing we do for our clients is a letter of intent. Prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all of the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow. For instance, this can be paid by the seller or the buyer or split between both parties. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Norman Jean of junk productions.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Alex Leconte. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Leya Tanit of Pineapple Support.

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A portfolio of eight Amazon FBA adult beauty stores. These brands have enjoyed steady growth over their eight years in business with many products, commanding a dominant market share in their vertical with combined revenues of $3.4 million in 2021 and an impressive 15,000 plus customer reviews setting itself apart with its distinctive product style and branding the businesses winning product formula and launch strategy has been multiplied across different customer types to greatly increase market share and expand the business over time.

The brands now number over 80 listings, including bundles, and they include lightening creams, lubricants, sexual aids, and other personal care items for adult intimacy. The products which have formulas exclusive to the owner have proven hugely profitable over time with a business enjoying massive gross margins of almost 40% with absolutely no advertising spend outside of Amazon included are standard operating procedures for all activities related to Amazon selling, meaning the buyers getting the intellectual property rights.

They would not be able to find elsewhere. The has massive growth opportunities, especially by marketing outside of Amazon in the e-commerce and brick and mortar spaces. As the current owners have not done much to promote the websites and I’ve not sought a retail distributor, the business can be run from anywhere and it can be run by outsource firms at a very low operating cost. The business also enjoys strong diversification of revenues across its major product lines, brands, and keywords, giving it stable growth over time.

The businesses running a highly effective hands-off way with day-to-day operations managed by a team of outsource personnel with the owner working only about 30 hours per week. The reason for the sale is the owners have been in the category for a long time, and now wish to divest to turn attention to newer verticals. They’ve already moved into this incredible company is now only $5 million. Now time for this week’s interview, I guess today on adults, I broke her talk is Leah tenant of pineapple support.

Leah, thanks for being back with us on adult site broker talk,

Speaker 2 (4m 9s): You are welcome. It’s an absolute pleasure. Bruce

Speaker 1 (4m 12s): Pleasure is mine. Now. Leah was born in the UK and she’s been involved in the adult industry for almost 20 years. She’s the founder and president of pineapple support, a nonprofit organization that provides free and subsidized mental health care and emotional support for all persons working in the adult industry. And I will say we are proud to be a sponsor. She started the organization because of a rash of suicides in our industry. She’s now part of a radio show, or as we like to call them podcasts with one of her therapists, Shelly, who we haven’t been able to get on, unfortunately it’s called pineapple talk and is sponsored by the fine people at camp for the first radio show was three years ago.

They’re always looking for guests and topics. They’re passionate about discussing. They even talk to me on apple support has grown to almost 200 therapists and helped over 2000 industry professionals, which I think is just amazing. And I don’t have to tell you the regard I hold for what you do over there and how wonderful I think the, the whole endeavor is. So Leah, please tell everyone what services pineapple support provides.

Speaker 2 (5m 24s): That was some fantastic research that you’ve done there. I’m very impressed.

Speaker 1 (5m 29s): Oh yeah. It took me hours

Speaker 2 (5m 33s): As professional.

Speaker 1 (5m 35s): I and I endeavor to, to be that. Yes.

Speaker 2 (5m 42s): So yeah, so we’ve really expanded our resources over the last kind of 12 to 18 months due to due to need since the outbreak of COVID. So we have the 24 7 emotional support service, which is kind of your first go-to. If you want to speak to somebody immediately, the person you connected with is not a therapist. They are trained volunteers and the communication is done via text.

So it’s it’s if you’re feeling alone or you want to get something off your chest and have an impartial and to speak to, then, then that’s, that’s the place for you. It’s run on a website called seven cups. So it actually takes you away from the pineapple support platform, but it’s, it’s been working really well and it’s getting more and more popular, which is fantastic. I think the, the resource that were most known for is the one-on-one therapy.

As you mentioned, we’ve got almost 200 therapists now across five continents, speaking 18 languages between them, which is pretty impressive, but we all It is it’s, it’s so wonderful to be able to offer such a diverse selection of therapists. Cause you know, we have a diverse selection of people coming and coming for support. So, so we need to be able to match that. And yeah, so that is, that’s a pay what you can.

So when you apply for therapy, you let us know what you can contribute towards each session. And that goes directly to the therapist. And then we pay for the, because of the rest basically. And then on top of that, we have support groups. Every month, we have a different topical support group that runs for six weeks. We have three drop-in support groups that run consistently throughout the year on a Monday for all performers on a Wednesday for the BiPAP community. And the first Thursday of every month for men, the support groups are completely free.

You can drop in and out a commitment free. It’s a really great way to create and establish community within the industry, which is why we really upped our game on those during COVID cause it’s, you know, with everyone being stuck almost a really nice way to, to enable people to connect,

Speaker 1 (8m 6s): Right?

Speaker 2 (8m 8s): And now we do webinars every month we do workshops, we do events. So we did a happiness event. We’ve done healing through kink. We’ve done a two day event on relationships and these are all sponsored events. So if anyone wants to get involved in something like that, you can drop me an email and we can work out. We can work out a plan.

Speaker 1 (8m 29s): Fabulous.

Speaker 2 (8m 29s): So yeah, in person at the show is we have therapists available as much as possible, anything mental health related, if we can afford it without

Speaker 1 (8m 40s): Well, and that all comes from the sponsors. So I’m going to, I’m going to make the challenge that, that I’ve talked to you about making to people. Look, if you’re not a sponsor of pineapple support, you should be a sponsor, a pineapple support. And I don’t, I don’t care if you’re a solo performer that does pretty well or a company. If you’re a company, you don’t have an excuse, okay. We’re not a big company and we’re a sponsor. So everyone should be a sponsor.

Everyone should be a sponsor in some way, shape or form. Do you ever stop and look at where this started and where it is now it’s got, it’s gotta be pretty amazing to you.

Speaker 2 (9m 23s): It is, I think has been such a fast moving train. I forget. I forget how big it is and because you know, it’s been what it’ll be for four years, three years, four years in, in April. And the, the, yeah, the rate of which particularly, I mean, during, during COVID that really in the amount of people coming for therapy, doubled tripled, and now we were having about 30 people a month requested there.

Now it’s 190 and I’m just very, very grateful that we started when we did, because it put us in a position that we were financially able to, to continue providing the same level of support. Obviously you get to go on a huge, huge mission to collect some more small donations and work with more sponsors. But the fact that we were able to do that was just incredible. And I’m, I’m very, very grateful to everyone that supports us and, and ensure that we could continue.

Speaker 1 (10m 38s): Absolutely. Yeah. How is 2021 been for your organization?

Speaker 2 (10m 43s): Challenging for sure. With the increase in people coming through fire paint, we were having to look at ways in which we could continue. If you continue doing what we were doing on a much lower of a much tighter budget. So as I said, we did, we did onboard a lot, a lot more sponsors, but not the same ratio as we were taking on new clients.

Speaker 1 (11m 10s): Right?

Speaker 2 (11m 11s): So trying to think outside the box and figure out ways that we could provide as much support as possible with what we had. And at the end of 20, it was the end of 2020 beginning of 2021. We reached out to our therapists. We actually with, and to see if anyone could offer us, reduce rates and help out. We’ve had a number of therapists that worked for a month, two months for free. They reduced their rates for us for a few months just to let us get back. So it was, it was a really big community effort with everyone involved in the organization.

We’ve had some restructuring. So I’m now CEO not present. Yeah. Alison Bowden has taken over the president’s role. Yeah, no, it’s been we’ve, we’ve had a lot of change. We closed down the UK charity. So it’s all run from, from the U S now, which makes much more sense. But yeah, there’s been, there’s been a lot happening internally and at the same time having to shake things up a little bit to, to ensure that we could continue providing the resources that we are.

And I think the other really challenging part of this is not having that one-on-one contact with the content creators because when you’re at the shows all the time and you’ve got the booze and you’re going to the presentations and obviously there’s all these online events, but it gets a little bit much, there’s only so many zoom presentations you can watch, but I trying to actually understand what the performers want and need if you’re stuck in an office there’s yeah.

You can look through Twitter, you can see what people are actually reaching out to tell you, but it’s, it’s hard to actually gauge what’s really happening in the industry when you’re, when you’re stuck in a little white box.

Speaker 1 (13m 13s): Yeah. The shows or the shows are so important for everybody. And I would think for you guys more than anyone.

Speaker 2 (13m 20s): Yes. Yeah. For, for, for all, you know, from all aspects is when it comes to looking for sponsorships to think it’s very important. If someone’s going to give a big chunk of money to an organization without, I mean, yeah, there are the responsive benefits, of course. But at the end of the day, you are giving money for nothing, for a good cause you want to know that the person you’re giving it to is a good person, a decent person. You want to get a feel person. And it’s very hard to approach new sponsors when they haven’t, they haven’t physically met you.

Speaker 1 (13m 53s): Yeah. Yeah. You want to have a drink at the bar or maybe a meal and yeah. Talk a little bit, have a meeting and have a chance to get to know each other on a personal level.

Speaker 2 (14m 4s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (14m 5s): Yeah. And I understand, and by the way you mentioned Allie’s involved now as president. That’s amazing. She is an incredible lady. So congratulations on that. Maybe she might want to come on the podcast sometime. I’d love to have her on, you had a mental health summit recently. How did that go?

Speaker 2 (14m 24s): Oh, it was wonderful. I love the summits. We’ve we are able to, we’re able to give so much information. And because this year we opened it up to two sponsors, multiple sponsors, we’ve managed to get a lot more promotion, a lot more people attending. And I know that the videos are now the, the recordings will be shared across multiple platforms and a much, much wider reach should be out very soon on our, on our YouTube channel, if they’re all getting edited right now.

Speaker 1 (14m 58s): Fabulous. So what’s planned for 2022.

Speaker 2 (15m 2s): Oh. We had a, the in-person retreat in LA, which was fantastic. So it would be nice to do some more of those more shows, more sponsors, continue doing what we’re doing, really try and work on connecting with the content creators more. I mean, we’ve just, we, we recently created a diversity committee, which we opened up to, to those in the industry to join and that’s been going wonderfully.

So be great to, it’s great to hear other people’s voices, you know, as a kind of middle class, cisgender white woman, you know, you can do it in your mind. You can do what you think is the correct thing, but you can’t, it’s impossible to know without, without other voices and without other other opinions. So I’m really, really happy that that’s moving forward and we’ve got so much support there from, within the industry and so many ideas coming through.

So, so that’s going to be a big focus for 20, 22 to make sure that we are as inclusive as possible and yeah. Travel some more people get more of a

Speaker 1 (16m 22s): Catch up on those hugs. Yes, indeed. I miss your hug. I definitely miss your hug. Let’s talk a bit about your podcast. What message do you hope to provide through it?

Speaker 2 (16m 39s): We’ll see what this podcast is done through a mainstream company. The previous one was on demon seed radio, which was fantastic. It was going out to people who were specifically in the industry or wanted to listen to an industry focused podcasts. Whereas this one is with it being with a mainstream company, we’re getting a completely different audience. So with that in mind, the idea really is to humanize the industry, to take down some stigma, to, to show those who are tuning in that the porn industry, the adult industry is a big business, very serious place to be, you know, and just because there’s tits and ass viable business to, to rehumanize to rehumanize those that, that are working in front of the camera.

Speaker 1 (17m 41s): That’s awesome. Now, how do you find your guests? I mean, I know you ran into me downtown. I was, you know, down and out on skid row one night, but, but, but how do you, how do you find the rest of your guests?

Speaker 2 (17m 55s): Most of them are my friends

Speaker 1 (17m 60s): In skid row.

Speaker 2 (18m 6s): Yeah. Most, most our friends I shall admit. And then, I mean, we always reach out to our ambassadors and ask them if they want to get involved. You know, we, people that I’ve met along the way and maybe have contacted us through social media, not regarding therapy because we weren’t, it wouldn’t put anyone in that position, but there’s a lot of people that have got in touch and say, you know, we’d, we’d, I’d love to get involved with pineapple support.

How can I be more involved? So I dropped those, those names down as well. But yeah, it is mostly me ringing up friends saying, Hey,

Speaker 1 (18m 49s): Yes, you did. Yes, you, yes. You most certainly did. And you know, I’m, you know, I obviously have my, my background with mental health issues and let’s face it. If you have mental health issues, it’s a lifetime thing. And like bipolar disorder, which I have, and I’m on meds. I’ll be on meds my entire life because of it. And as I said on the, on your podcast, I’m a proud bipolar and you should be, you know, there’s really nothing to hide.

It’s, it’s something that a high percent of the population actually has. And it usually goes undiagnosed because it’s usually like, oh, they’re not. It’s like, no, they just need some treatment. So anyway, but I’m nuts too.

Speaker 2 (19m 36s): So

Speaker 1 (19m 38s): Yeah, it’d be in this industry, we all have to be just a bit nuts. So how do you choose your topics for the show?

Speaker 2 (19m 45s): And we will either focus topics around what’s going on at the time. If there’s something, you know, something that is affecting the industry, then, then we’ll focus or focused on that or Charlene. And I will just sit down and have a think about what we, what we feel needs to be discussed if we haven’t covered that topic yet. And then it’s finding that balance between fun and talking about the hard stuff, you know, because if every single week you’re covering something that’s tough to talk about and tough to listen to, then it can get a little bit much.

So it’s okay. Let’s have, let’s make this topic a little bit lighter. We can have a bit of a giggle. And then when we pick something that we know is going to be hard and the two of us working out the questions, but just going, oh no.

Speaker 1 (20m 41s): Okay. I can make, I can make a joke out of anything. I don’t know if you ever heard the comedian Sam Kennison

Speaker 2 (20m 47s): No.

Speaker 1 (20m 48s): Oh God, you got to Google him. He was funny, man. But Sam, Sam Kinison said, I can make a joke out of anything. He says, I was talking to a friend, he said, and he told him that. And he said, Sam, there’s no way you can make a joke out of this. And he said, what? He said, I’ve got this article here about some homosexual necrophilia sex. And Sam goes, give me the article. And he does a routine on homosexual negrophiliacs and he’s on stage.

And he’s laying down on, you know, face down and his ass is moving and he’s talking like, he’s a, like, he’s a dead guy. So like him, I can make a joke out of anything.

Speaker 2 (21m 33s): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you do need to keep it a little bit light and try and make it, you know, but there are some topics, you know, with sexual abuse and things like that, that you go, okay, this is going to be really hard. One

Speaker 1 (21m 50s): Joke out of that. That’s true.

Speaker 2 (21m 51s): Yeah. When we talking to people about suicide, those are survivors of suicide and listen to their stories and Shelly with Shelley being a therapist, she’s very good at kind of disconnecting and asking the right questions. I’ll be sat there, kind of holding back tears or just crying. And before the podcast wasn’t video recorded. And nowadays I can’t do that. I just focus. I switch off

Speaker 1 (22m 24s): Bringing the Kleenex. Is there anything that’s out of bounds or that you just won’t discuss?

Speaker 2 (22m 31s): I think as long as the guests are comfortable talking than then, no, you know, not that I can, not that I can really think of. I mean, we haven’t done necrophilia.

Speaker 1 (22m 48s): That’s probably a good idea,

Speaker 2 (22m 54s): But yeah, we’ve had some, we’ve moved. We really had some hard hitting topics Because I do approach people that I know because I feel more comfortable asking them if they’re happy to talk about things that I am aware of, they may not have talked publicly and then they can say yes or no to me again, because I’m a friend and it’s not in a,

Speaker 1 (23m 19s): Something they’ve discussed with you, but you have to ask them if it’s okay.

Speaker 2 (23m 23s): Yeah, yeah. I know you’ve experienced this. Would you be happy to talk about it on the podcast? And then sometimes they, you know, we’ve had occasions where people have either just while the while we’ll be asking them questions, come up with things that they’ve forgotten that happened 30 years ago. And oh my God, why I do this? And it’s almost like a therapy session.

Speaker 1 (23m 44s): Exactly, exactly. Yeah. That’s how it goes in therapy. Sure.

Speaker 2 (23m 48s): Yeah. And we’ve had, we had a guest on who had gone through a really, really hard time. And luckily I had used our therapy services and said, you know, we read that she saved his life at that at that moment. And other right though, is a lot of drug use. It was. Yeah. I don’t just very dark places, which I didn’t know about. And he hadn’t spoken about publicly before, but really wanted to do so in order to help other people understand that they weren’t on their own.

And, and you know, it was, You get, you know, there’s other people going through the same thing. I, other people that have survived and gone through the other side.

Speaker 1 (24m 37s): It’s

Speaker 2 (24m 37s): Great people. That platform only has to provide the service.

Speaker 1 (24m 41s): Yeah, no, it really does. So I know this, but maybe the people out there don’t would you consider your podcast more like an interview show or more like a discussion?

Speaker 2 (24m 52s): I really depends on the guest. We, we do write questions out so that we can interview, but if the, if the guests is as easy as, you know, some people it just flows with and then it becomes more of a discussion and that’s the

Speaker 1 (25m 7s): Yeah. And ours, it was more like I was interviewing you.

Speaker 2 (25m 13s): Yeah, probably. So, yeah. So it’s, it really depends on who we’re talking to. It’s I prefer it as a discussion, but you know, a lot of people, particularly when you’re coming on and talking about something so personal, it is, you do need a little bit of coaxing.

Speaker 1 (25m 33s): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. At least most people do. So talk about how you handle those tougher topics.

Speaker 2 (25m 44s): Shelly,

Speaker 1 (25m 48s): She’s not here.

Speaker 2 (25m 54s): It’s, it’s hard because you want to, you’ll want to go as deep as possible, but you really have to gauge how the person you’re talking with is, is feeling, oh, you know the, cause at the end of the day, this isn’t a therapy session. This isn’t behind closed doors. They’re talking about something extremely personal to hundreds of people on the people To find that balance, to ensure that they are comfortable.

And you’re also managing to make it interesting.

Speaker 1 (26m 30s): Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (26m 33s): It can be very hard depending on the person you’re speaking to and how open they are. It can be quite difficult to get that balance. Right.

Speaker 1 (26m 40s): Of course that probably has a, that that plays a lot into who you decide to interview, right?

Speaker 2 (26m 48s): Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (26m 49s): Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26m 50s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 51s): Okay. So you guys have obviously grown to a large organization. I think bringing in a, you know, a, a president like Allie and, and restructuring and doing some of the things you’re doing, kind of, kind of says a lot about that. And you’re working with a full remote team, like you said, all over the world, many countries, many languages talk about working with that full remote team.

And what does that entail on a daily basis?

Speaker 2 (27m 25s): It can be challenging in the sense that everyone’s kind of out on their own and everyone has you completely different jobs. So yes, this communication via email and texts, and we do have regular regular meetings with, so it’s basically that the core running, running Michelle Kelly and Kirstie. So you’ve got three people that are running the day to day Kirstie does the therapy, facilitation Kelly does all of the finance invoices, making sure that all the therapists have the licenses and insurance and compliance stuff up to date.

Then I have no idea what I do.

Speaker 1 (28m 15s): You do a lot,

Speaker 2 (28m 19s): Everything else, general dog’s body. I think it’s, it’s great. And the fact that everyone can run their own hours, everyone’s got that nice flexibility working with a therapist as well. You know, what close to 200 therapists now, you know, has huge benefits and, and how many re how many options we have are diverse. The, let’s say the resources, you know, there are therapists that specialize in so many different areas and there were so many different types of therapy.

And there are so many people that some kind of benefit from, from working with a therapist, who’s more kind of art focused, some needs someone that’s going to really challenge them. And it’s great to be able to have that option, have those options at our fingertips basically. But it’s been, yeah, we talked about, we were talking before about, you know, having that con contact with the content creators. And I think that’s, that’s the biggest challenge with working so far removed from the U S really it has its challenges, but I think it’s the benefits far outweigh the challenges.

Speaker 1 (29m 38s): Sure. So how excited are you now that we’re back to a regular schedule of shows Me too?

Speaker 2 (29m 49s): Well, I think it’s going to change the frequency of travel, you know, 2019, I attended something I, 27 shows. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 0s): Oh, okay. Brad from mojo host,

Speaker 2 (30m 4s): But you know, you get used to this routine of always being an apple, always being on a flight hotel and having this two years off where established community at home, been working on the house, spending more time getting to know you when you’re rushing, he’s put into perspective, you know, the, the, the important things in life. And I think moving forward the 27, 27 shows is not necessary.

Speaker 1 (30m 36s): No, it really, it really isn’t. I’ve never done that volume, but I, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (30m 42s): I think it’s important to make yourself known and establish yourself as an, as an organization. You know, everyone needs to see you everywhere, but we’ve done that now. So

Speaker 1 (30m 54s): Yeah, I think,

Speaker 2 (30m 56s): Yeah,

Speaker 1 (30m 57s): Yeah. I got, I got there a long time ago in terms of having to pick my spots. Well, plus we don’t have the budget for 27 shows. I’ll just come out and say that, but at the same time, it’s just unnecessary. And what I found, you know, during the pandemic was my business went way up because I just had a lot more time to work. I had a lot more time in the office and I wasn’t on trips, you know, in airports, not to the extent of you, but, you know, you’re always, you’re next trips always coming up and you’re always doing some planning and that takes time.

And I was just, you know, dug in on, you know, what, what I needed to do for my business. And then the podcast is part of that, actually.

Speaker 2 (31m 43s): Yeah. I think you’re, you are absolutely right. We are in a fabulous position where a lot of the show is obviously covered our tickets, cover our hotel rooms. So paying for paying for a flight, the, the benefits outweigh, you know, you spend 500 on a flight provided you get one sponsor it’s covered.

Speaker 1 (32m 8s): Absolutely. Yeah. I want that deal. I want that deal. Let’s see if I can get some sponsors. So how can people help or get involved with pineapple sport?

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): Oh, there are loads of different ways, loads of different

Speaker 1 (32m 23s): Ways.

Speaker 2 (32m 26s): Obviously you can volunteer as listener. So that was the, I talked about that earlier in the show where you can reach out to somebody at any at any time. And these people are volunteers. They, you get a free, free training course and active listening. And then once you’ve completed, that course, is it like another 50 courses that you can take as a menu plays on different aspects of mental health. So, you know, ADHD, depression, addiction, you can take the courses that interest you and just make yourself available as, as, and when you feel like it, that’s one way we have now set up a membership scheme called pineapples United.

And that’s for individuals who don’t just want to donate because yeah, it’s great to throw it, to throw a bunch of money at something, and we need that money. And we a hugely hugely appreciate it. But what we also want to hear is, is what people want, what people need. So pineapples United is for those who are working in the, in the industry who would like to donate regularly, it starts at, I think, 10, $10 a month with that membership. You are invited to join us for regular meetings with pineapple board members and actually discuss what you think we should be doing, how you think, how we think we can improve.

And it’s, it’s been fantastic so far. We’ve had a great response and I really, really love having that involvement from the community has been wonderful and obviously sponsor Donate in any way. If, if you can’t afford one of the big sponsorships, we always have events coming. And if, if you’re interested in sponsoring an event, let me know. And I can add you to the mailing list for that. The event sponsorships are usually between 500 and 750 tweaked on chat.

And if you see someone that you think is struggling, please tag us so that we can reach out to them. Personally. I just look out for the community, be nice to each other.

Speaker 1 (34m 34s): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Don’t slam people on the boards. You never know what kind of a day they’ve had.

Speaker 2 (34m 43s): Exactly. Exactly. Everyone’s got their own shit going on.

Speaker 1 (34m 48s): And of course they can just plain donate any amount, right?

Speaker 2 (34m 52s): Yeah, absolutely. At any time, you know, hold a fundraiser on Facebook or, Or at us on your Amazon, you can select a charity through Amazon smile while we’re on there. That means every time you can purchase something like 1% goes to pineapple support, but hundreds, thousands of, lots of people doing that, then that’s going to, that, that money adds up and it costs you.

Speaker 1 (35m 22s): There you go. Sounds good. So how can someone find you that’s if you want them to find you,

Speaker 2 (35m 32s): The website is pineapple support.org. You can reach us on Twitter and on Instagram at pineapple, Y S w which stands for your safe word. And we are also on Facebook, which is pineapple dot, your safe word.

Speaker 1 (35m 49s): That’s awesome. Leah, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today and adults I and broker talk. And I know we’ll get a chance to get another update from your real soon. My broker tip today is part three of how to buy a website. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you’ve either reached the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site. The broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years.

That’s up to date. If it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, get a username and password for the site so that you can review the content. Ask how often the site is updated. Get some history on the site, how long it’s been in business, the story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell it, get an inventory of the content and how much of it. It has current technologies like 4k, find out if all the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller.

If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the content is on. Find out how much the content costs to produce and what the current cost of production is. Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the owner, did they do the shooting themselves or do they hire someone to do it? And if there is an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what is the retention rate on the site and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic asked for Google analytics access.

So you can see where the traffic comes from. This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. Then if everything looks good to you and you want the site, it’s time to make an offer. Only you can decide what the site is worth to you. If you’re working with a broker such as, oh, I don’t know, let’s say adult site broker, of course your broker can help you determine the value of the site. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week, we’ll be speaking with Alex Leconte of seven veils. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Leya Tanit of Pineapple Support. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with. porn actress, Lily Craven.

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The company has an Italian hentai PEI site and the most popular Italian hentai free site. Plus a popular game pay site. The free site has Italian hentai comics and videos, and 52,000 daily views. The adult Italian game site makes over 40,000 euros a month. They hint comics and video site makes over 11,000 euros monthly. There are also telegram channels for the sites that are included as well as a Patreon page.

All of the sites have a ton of content and the traffic is mostly organic. No advertising has been purchased. This is an amazing opportunity for anyone with hen tire game traffic, only 1.5 million euros. Now time for this week’s interview my guest today and adult type broker talk. It’s adult actress, Lily Craven. Lily, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 41s): Hello. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 44s): Well, it’s really nice to have you Lilly now. Always nice. Always nice to be had too. So MILF performer, Lily Craven has been in the industry for five years. She started as a webcam model and now she adult videos. Her niches are big toys, dirty talk, big boobs and taboo role-play or favorite niche is the extreme mommy fetish, Tommy mommy, let me hear about that. This role allows her to interact with one of her many followers.

She does build a whore custom videos and picks the customer, tells her what to say, what to do, what to wear and what toys to play with. And she makes a custom video and pictures just for them. Or most recent endeavor is hosting your podcast, phone sex with the Lily, which yours truly has been a guest on. And she interviews adult industry talent in front of, and behind the camera phone sex with Lily can be heard on Spotify anchor and now Skyhawk after dark tv.com. So Lily, and by the way, doing your podcast was so much fun.

I, Especially, especially the, the sex talk at the beginning. That was a pretty fucking hilarious.

Speaker 2 (4m 2s): Yeah, we did take it in a funny direction. Didn’t we?

Speaker 1 (4m 5s): Yeah, I, I decided I decided to throw you, throw you anyway. Yeah, well, I do my best. I do my best. So tell me the story begin because you, you got started late. So tell me the story of how you got into the business in the first place.

Speaker 2 (4m 23s): Oh goodness. So I did start late. I started at 40 years old going through a divorce and it was somewhat my Mo well, my motivation starting was revenge on a cheating ex-husband. And so I put myself in school full time and I knew I needed a college education to work because I had been a homemaker for years.

Speaker 1 (4m 49s): They still have those.

Speaker 2 (4m 52s): Well, I was kind of a spoiled homemaker. So I was at home

Speaker 1 (4m 58s): In itself.

Speaker 2 (4m 59s): Oh, it really is. So I Def, I started selling content out of my inbox on messenger, on Facebook. And after that I caught a 90 day ban, which we all know

Speaker 1 (5m 15s): I was going to ask you how long it took you to get banned

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): Many, many times. So, yeah, I caught a 90 day one and I’m like, oh my goodness, this is my extra income that I’m, you know, bringing in money. And I’m like, what am I going to do? And one of my customers said, Hey, have you heard of webcam modeling? You know, chatter bait? And I was like chatter. So he showed me chatter bait, and I’m like, I can do that. So of course, as you know, my technology is really, really behind. So I had to learn how,

Speaker 1 (5m 48s): And you have a very good coach,

Speaker 2 (5m 53s): Thank goodness for you because I’m telling you the way I learned with chatter bait to get my devices, your little interactive toys set up. As I went to the geek squad at best buys, and I pull a lady aside and I said, I need your help because you can’t ask your friends, your kids, your, you just can’t ask those people. And so I started doing that and I stayed solo all that time. And then I, with the goals that I have, I felt it was time and necessary to progress into filming.

And I started that 2019. Was that the last AVN award? So 2019?

Speaker 1 (6m 34s): No, no, no, no. It was 2020 was the last one.

Speaker 2 (6m 37s): Yeah, because it’s in January. So January, 2020 is when I did my first shoot and it has gone from there.

Speaker 1 (6m 45s): Wow. And it hasn’t been all that long? No,

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): Not at all.

Speaker 1 (6m 50s): So what did you do before you joined the industry? You talked about being a homemaker.

Speaker 2 (6m 57s): Oh, well I was a wife and a homemaker and my ex-husband wanted me to go out to PF Chang’s with my friends and have Chinese food and wear neon and SciHigh boots and keep changing my clothes all day. And so that’s what I was doing before. I’m just living

Speaker 1 (7m 17s): The good life. A really tough job.

Speaker 2 (7m 20s): Yeah. It w it was, yeah. Well, I was loving it. That’s why I was so angry when the rug gets pulled out from underneath. You’re like, damn it. That was a pretty good life. So everything was great. We also had an oil field, trucking company and an oil field storage company that we ran. So that was fun, but,

Speaker 1 (7m 42s): Well, wait a minute. Wait, well, let me, let me stop you though. Didn’t you get half of all that?

Speaker 2 (7m 47s): I did half of the business, but did I have I physically like, got it yet five years later? No, I’m working on that.

Speaker 1 (7m 56s): So the divorce is still ongoing.

Speaker 2 (7m 58s): No, it’s totally over with, and it’s been since 2018. I just, you can have a lien on a house and stuff like that, but that doesn’t mean you have money in your pocket.

Speaker 1 (8m 9s): Oh shit.

Speaker 2 (8m 10s): So I’m working on that one. So a whole nother podcast story.

Speaker 1 (8m 15s): Okay. Yeah. Feel free. Feel free. We’ve got all the time you want.

Speaker 2 (8m 20s): Oh goodness. So yes, I I’m, I’m in the process of working on that, but I did receive judgment for half the business.

Speaker 1 (8m 30s): Okay. I think you need, I think you need a better lawyer or a better collector to want one of the two.

Speaker 2 (8m 37s): That’s what I heard. Yes. That’s where I’m at now. But I had an excellent lawyer. Just okay. It’s time to collect.

Speaker 1 (8m 43s): Oh boy. I’m telling you I’ll, I’ll be, I’ll fly out for the party from Thailand when you’re ready. Cause I have a feeling, I have a feeling it’s going to be a big one,

Speaker 2 (8m 54s): But it was, I hope so. But yeah, I I’m just too nice. Like if you cry to me or you say that you have a sob story, I will listen and I feel bad for people. And I just let things go by all the time because of that.

Speaker 1 (9m 12s): Don’t do it on this one. I’m a

Speaker 2 (9m 13s): Softie. I’m not

Speaker 1 (9m 15s): On this one.

Speaker 2 (9m 16s): I’m not this time.

Speaker 1 (9m 19s): So how has getting into the business changed? You both good and bad.

Speaker 2 (9m 24s): I have to say when I started, I was at, as far as my self esteem, self worth was probably at the lowest I’ve ever been in my life. I was taken from, you know, being the happiest, I believe I’ve ever been. And I’ve had a good life in general, but down to the lowest point, the darkest point and my followers, they, they made me feel important. Like I was wanted that I was pretty, that I mattered. They took interest in my life.

They they’ve always been there. And it really, it pretty much saved me. I mean, I wasn’t like suicidal or anything, but I was really, really low on myself and it gave me the umph to keep, to keep going to do better, to try more. And I am forever grateful for the people who have always supported me during that time when there was no one else. So it’s, it’s empowered me. I’ve become financially independent for the first time in my life.

So a lot. Yeah. It’s, it’s really been, I can’t, I can’t tell you enough what the industry has done for me as a person, just to who I am. It’s brought me out of my shell. It’s it’s just, I know now that

Speaker 1 (10m 43s): I, you were in a shell,

Speaker 2 (10m 46s): Not yes and no. I think I’ve been more reserved after my divorce. A lot more reserved, just careful with who I’m around in the people that I choose to interact with. I’m much, very, very cautious. So I think, yes, I was a little bit in a shell, but most of my life, no, I was the cheerleader and outgoing.

Speaker 1 (11m 14s): Why am I not surprised? And how has the business changed? Do in a negative sense?

Speaker 2 (11m 19s): Oh, I don’t know. The one thing that I would say that bothers me would be the image. I think that comes along with it. I am quite conservative when it comes to adult entertainment and I have two different beliefs. I love the industry. I love being part of it. And I there’s, this is the first time in my life. I belong somewhere. Like I truly feel like I matter.

And I belong even with the people in the industry, they they’re incredible. And I’ve always like been, even in college, it was just awkward. Like I wasn’t cool. People were like, oh, I bet you, everybody would love do. And I’m like, no, not really. Like, I was like the old lady in the back of the classroom. So it’s kind of funny, but I, I think there’s some beliefs that I juggle back and forth with your belief system of, of that.

I think that it does affect society negatively. I think, I don’t know. It’s hard to explain, but I think that there’s the pros and cons of the industry and that’s where I go back and forth in my own head. And I do talk out of two sides of my face, you know, quite often it’s, they’re like, wait a minute, you just said this and I’m saying this and they kind of clash.

Speaker 1 (12m 47s): So you’re saying what you’re saying is your, so your, your conservative beliefs kinda clash against what you do for a living.

Speaker 2 (12m 58s): Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying.

Speaker 1 (13m 2s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (13m 3s): And it’s not necessarily my conservative. Yeah. It is your belief system that creates it. But I am a person that, for some reason I have a wall like built up in that and I don’t really think it’s a wall that I have any explanation of why it’s there, but on the set, you know, pushing yourself a little bit further and stuff, I am just so reserved when shooting, I I’m very monogamous. Like I’m just a monogamous person. So going, you know, being with different people, it’s just not as comfortable as I wish it would be.

I want to be a slut. I would try anything to be a slut. Like I really, really try. So

Speaker 1 (13m 48s): Take some time. I would imagine based on your being married for, I don’t know how many years,

Speaker 2 (13m 54s): Well, which one.

Speaker 1 (13m 57s): Okay. But,

Speaker 2 (13m 59s): But the last one was five years.

Speaker 1 (14m 1s): Okay. Mommy being married for a while and being <inaudible> monogamous God, I can’t even say the goddamn word. So being that way, I would imagine then getting into an industry where you’re having sex with different partners. I would imagine that would be a little difficult.

Speaker 2 (14m 25s): Yeah. But doesn’t everybody kind of, oh, I guess they don’t start off like that because quite a few people I know in the industry are already swingers or they’re sexually, like, they are just so free spirited. Like I envy that when I see it, I’m just like, why can’t I just relax and like allow that to happen or have fun. And, and I think there’s things that a dark clouds that hang over me like disease and stuff. Like I can’t get it out of my head.

So I think it affects me. And I don’t want anyone to see me like per se, sledding around, you know, but yet I want to be a slut so I can know. I think it’s just the way you were your belief system. I think it conflicts with what I would, I believe, or I thought I believed in,

Speaker 1 (15m 19s): Maybe they have classes for such things

Speaker 2 (15m 21s): I need. I need, I was going to say, I need Jesus for no one.

Speaker 1 (15m 25s): I need some slut classes. I’m sure they I’m sure they teach him somewhere,

Speaker 2 (15m 31s): Please. You know, if they did, I will T I will be the first one to sign up,

Speaker 1 (15m 36s): Google it.

Speaker 2 (15m 39s): I’m going to watch, I’m going to get back to you on that one.

Speaker 1 (15m 42s): Police do

Speaker 2 (15m 44s): What? 1 0 1.

Speaker 1 (15m 46s): Hey, there you go. I’m sure they teach it every fine university. So, So how has the university, the thing you see I’m T I’ve got university on my mind. So, so besides what you’ve already mentioned, how has the industry been beneficial to you?

Speaker 2 (16m 7s): I would say something. I definitely benefit from the self-employment. I never imagined in my life, like I’m from San Diego. You grew up there. People are not self-employed there you work for people. I currently live in Colorado where everybody is self-employed they all have their own businesses.

Speaker 1 (16m 29s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (16m 30s): All, not everybody, but quite a big chunk. We are a self-employed community entrepreneurs. So just learning that I can actually operate my own business, be my own boss is it’s incredible. It’s overwhelming. It’s very overwhelming. It’s a lot of hit and miss I self teach myself everything. So if things don’t quite sound right in the beginning, it’s because it’s because I taught myself.

Speaker 1 (17m 2s): But

Speaker 2 (17m 3s): Yeah, you just have to keep trying and learning. It’s very intimidating. I would say self-employment is in the industry. And also people trying to take advantage of you is constant. Yeah. For me, I attract, I think those kinds of people and I’m well aware of it. So I definitely thank goodness I’m aware of it. So I have to, I’m like a magnet for these kinds of people, but I, I I’ve managed to stay pretty safe.

Speaker 1 (17m 35s): What’s

Speaker 2 (17m 35s): Good. You know, meaning I don’t feel like I’m going to be physically attacked, but I’m just saying the scams are people taking advantage of or stuff like that. It happens quite a bit and it starts to happen in front of my eyes and I catch it, you know? Wow.

Speaker 1 (17m 50s): Well, at least, at least at least run Jeremy’s behind bars.

Speaker 2 (17m 55s): Yeah, no shit. I know. Can you believe

Speaker 1 (17m 58s): That

Speaker 2 (17m 60s): The things they used to do back then?

Speaker 1 (18m 2s): It wasn’t that long ago. Wasn’t that long ago.

Speaker 2 (18m 6s): No, it wasn’t.

Speaker 1 (18m 7s): So you got your degree during the pandemic. What field was it in? Obviously wasn’t in, in being a slut. So what field was it in and why?

Speaker 2 (18m 19s): Kind of, it was no, professors did not know that did not know that they were teaching me marketing management, which is my degree for the adult industry. They had no idea. So

Speaker 1 (18m 34s): No idea what you were going to, they had no idea what you were going to do with it, right?

Speaker 2 (18m 38s): No, no, I didn’t. I, one time had a professor say, why are you sleeping? Like at her, I was 9:00 AM. I’m sleeping on her desk, you know, during her class. And she’s like, what do you do for a living? Or what do you do at night? And I’m right. If I tell you I have to kill you, like I can not tell you. So I definitely, there was only one professor. She was retiring and at the end of the paper, I, it was my final paper. I revealed what I did. And it was, I think it was a small business class.

So we had to create, so I ended up saying what I did and she wrote back, this is the most profound paper I’ve ever read. And, and that was it. And then she retired. So nobody knew what I did.

Speaker 1 (19m 22s): Yeah. Sometimes it’s better to keep it to yourself, especially in academia,

Speaker 2 (19m 27s): I believe so Most definitely that would not have been received. Well, I don’t know.

Speaker 1 (19m 33s): How was it getting your degree during the, the pandemic? It must have had some challenges.

Speaker 2 (19m 40s): Well, I actually was lucky enough that I graduated right at the beginning spring. So I, when it was, it May, 2020 is when I graduated. So I never hit the pandemic. Like as far as not being able to go to school. I think my final classes, that darn accounting class, I took five times that was online. So I finished that one out and that was it for me, luckily, but I didn’t get to walk.

And that was, you know, a disappointment. It, I, I envisioned me receiving my diploma and that was a lot of good motivation for me while, you know, having my kids watch or my

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): Watch

Speaker 2 (20m 24s): Me accomplish this. And that was a big deal for me. And then instead it just blinked on the monitor screen real quick and it was gone.

Speaker 1 (20m 33s): That sucks. It’s such, it’s really, it’s such a wonderful moment for everyone. But I would imagine as a mom, I, it would, would have been an even more proud moment.

Speaker 2 (20m 42s): Yeah. And you know, that happened to one of my kids was a senior, so it’s actually valedictorian. So he

Speaker 1 (20m 50s): Ended

Speaker 2 (20m 50s): Up, yeah. They ended up doing months later, like in July, they did a ceremony outside on the football field. So, so grateful that he got that opportunity, but I got to be there for that, so,

Speaker 1 (21m 4s): Oh, that’s lovely. That’s lovely. So are you in a relationship or do you date?

Speaker 2 (21m 11s): No, no, no. I, after my divorce, I, I decided to push, dating aside and just take care of me while I’m building my business. I started to realize this could like, cause like difficulties fading because

Speaker 1 (21m 30s): I,

Speaker 2 (21m 31s): Yeah. I don’t want someone who is, oh, okay, well, oh gosh, here’s the conflicting language.

Speaker 1 (21m 40s): I don’t want someone who’s

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): Okay with what I do, but I will not stop for anyone, But there’s a character and a personality that comes along with someone who is just fine with it. And I’m to each their own

Speaker 1 (21m 57s): Almost pimp, like,

Speaker 2 (21m 58s): Gosh, that’s a hard one to agree with. But

Speaker 1 (22m 3s): We, we w in our industry, we call ourselves sex workers.

Speaker 2 (22m 7s): Yes. I see. That’s where I just don’t have a problem with the other people doing it. And if there was that person that could truly come in and be supportive, but I don’t want, I want to be monogamous with that person. I want him to be monogamous with me. I don’t want it to be a pass that he could go do what he wants. I don’t think anyone would understand that it truly, truly is work for me. There is no, this is not about sex.

It’s part of the job. So I don’t believe that I, and if I get someone in the industry, I don’t want that. I don’t want someone sleeping with everyone. Just for

Speaker 1 (22m 50s): Me, just

Speaker 2 (22m 52s): For me. It doesn’t, it’s not the, what I envisioned on a partner. So what I do is I just completely avoid it. I just don’t date at all.

Speaker 1 (23m 1s): Yeah. That makes for an interesting question. How is sex different for you when you’re performing?

Speaker 2 (23m 10s): Oh, it’s very different.

Speaker 1 (23m 11s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (23m 12s): Well, sometimes you have, you have chemistry, but not necessarily a connection, right? You are a little bit it’s, it’s so staged quite often, you know, it’s like, give me two minutes of this. Gimme me, you know, blow him for 30 seconds. Bend over, do this point at the camera, open up. It’s just like, it’s just moves.

Speaker 1 (23m 34s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23m 35s): It’s almost easier to do than sex in real life because I don’t have sex in real life. I just don’t.

Speaker 1 (23m 43s): I

Speaker 2 (23m 44s): Put it on the set. I got a lot. I fuck myself every day. Can I cuss?

Speaker 1 (23m 49s): Yeah, I did. Oh,

Speaker 2 (23m 50s): Okay. Okay. So yeah, I do myself every day on webcamming. I’m chatter bait, literally 40. So I mean,

Speaker 1 (23m 59s): You should be plenty. You should be plenty horny at that, at that age. Yes,

Speaker 2 (24m 3s): I am. I’m in my prime women in their forties are like,

Speaker 1 (24m 8s): I know. I know.

Speaker 2 (24m 9s): So, yeah. It’s great, But I

Speaker 1 (24m 12s): Don’t need 45, so,

Speaker 2 (24m 15s): Oh, so my that’s see she’s frisky. Huh?

Speaker 1 (24m 18s): Huh? She can’t. She can be, I’m not going to go into any witness the same anymore, but

Speaker 2 (24m 29s): Yes,

Speaker 1 (24m 29s): Indeed. So, so tell me about your podcast. How did you come up with the idea?

Speaker 2 (24m 38s): Oh gosh. Okay. So I was asked by a station to stand in and do some interviews with some porn stars, just sort of to help him take off his workload. And so I said, okay, I can do that. I started interviewing some porn stars and then I went, gosh, this is so boring. And it’s not because of my guests were boring. It’s just, I wasn’t bringing what a good sounding podcaster or an entertainer can w I wasn’t bringing it.

Speaker 1 (25m 12s): That’s surprising. That’s surprising. Cause you sure do now.

Speaker 2 (25m 15s): Oh, goodness. Yeah. But see, I’m starting to get a little more comfortable. Cause by the way, I’ve never even listened to a podcast in my life until after I started these interviews.

Speaker 1 (25m 27s): I hadn’t, I hadn’t listened to many either, but then again, you know, I have a re you know, I have a radio background, so that kind of,

Speaker 2 (25m 34s): I didn’t even know the difference. I didn’t know what a podcast and radio was. I just had, I came in this completely blind. So I was just recording with a hand, held recorder with a speakerphone and just asking the questions. I would send it off to the station. He would edit, posted. I didn’t even listen to my old, my own stuff. And then I was like, okay, this is boring. So I was thinking, this is audio only. And what sells well, sex sells and I’m on the phone.

So why not have phone sex with my guests?

Speaker 1 (26m 9s): Perfect.

Speaker 2 (26m 10s): And yeah, so I have phone sex unknowingly in the beginning that my guests don’t know until right beforehand. So they don’t prepare for it. Right. And we, I just have fun. I haven’t had anyone run away yet.

Speaker 1 (26m 26s): Yeah. It’s a, it’s a blast. That’s a blast. I had, I had a very good time and I had a good time with you trying to freak you out. So anyway, So what are the challenges and what are the benefits for you of doing a podcast?

Speaker 2 (26m 42s): Oh, well the challenges are the whole podcast in general. Just the, I would say the technology behind it, but once like there’s so much information available out there online that you can teach yourself. We were talking about this earlier. You definitely can teach yourself. It’s just intimidating. But once you know, I, I dove in when I would, oh, I didn’t even finish. So I, with the radio station, I ended up going off independently.

And, and then when I did that, I was like, oh shit, I gotta learn how to edit like overnight. And I stayed up all night until I figured out how to splice it. Cut it, split it and get a code.

Speaker 1 (27m 29s): We’ll talk more after this, after this interview. Cause I have, I have a feeling you’re a overthinking, but anyway. Yeah. No, no, not clueless. Just overthinking it. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (27m 40s): Probably. I tend to do that a lot. Yeah. So, So yeah. So then when I did that, I, you know, branched off and I’m glad I did it. It gave me the kick in the butt to do it on my own. So I have control over it when it’s airing, how it sounds like I just had no control over it and I do now. So when it’s, when I say it’s my show, it truly is my show. No one else. I’m not depending on anyone to put it out there. If there’s a mistake, it’s mine And it wasn’t the force, so.

Speaker 1 (28m 14s): Okay. All right. So back to, so back to challenges and benefits.

Speaker 2 (28m 19s): Okay. So the challenge is definitely just learning really, really quick, how to do it being thrown in the pool without the life jacket. And then, but I learned really well that way I just I’m good. I’m good with that. The challenges and the what else?

Speaker 1 (28m 39s): Well, the challenges and the benefits. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28m 42s): The benefits would be, I am networking like crazy. I have met so many incredible people that I didn’t even know exists. I don’t watch porn. So, and I really never have, You don’t need me. You’ve got the 45 year old at home,

Speaker 4 (29m 3s): But,

Speaker 1 (29m 4s): Or it’s, or as I sat on the, or as I said on the podcast, I’ve never needed porn. I live in Thailand,

Speaker 2 (29m 13s): So I don’t live in Thailand and I don’t watch porn. So I think that when I meet these people, I don’t even know that these parts of the industry exists. And when you meet so many people, cause I interviewed behind the camera as well. And, and it really, when you, you just see all the components that bring it all together and it’s, it’s really neat. I’ve met such great people. I can’t even say they’re.

They are just their characters. They are full of personalities. They’re genuine free spirited. More than any class of people I could ever I’ve ever met besides the swingers. They’re fun. But the,

Speaker 1 (30m 0s): Yes he had, yes. He had coral and on That’s how we connected was, was through coral.

Speaker 2 (30m 10s): And I went to a swingers event with her in Miami.

Speaker 1 (30m 14s): Oh God.

Speaker 2 (30m 15s): I’ll tell you. Whoo

Speaker 1 (30m 17s): She’s. She is a, she is a first-class doll. I’ve had her on twice and we’re fine. We’re going to get to meet, I think in either LA or Vegas. So I’m really looking forward to that. I’m going to, I’m going to meet you there too. I think.

Speaker 2 (30m 32s): Yes. I’m going to be, I plan on being there and it will be Carolyn and I are like, we stick together at these events. So she, I really she’s like an idol to me. She’s a mentor. Someone I look up to. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 46s): And you guys have to have a lot, you too have a lot in common, starting in the business, late being moms having been married. Yeah. It’s, it’s pretty amazing. I don’t think those things are that unusual. There are a pretty good amount of women. Vicky vet started late in the business. Vicky’s been on my podcast and Vicky is, Vicky is wonderful. Yes.

Speaker 2 (31m 14s): They’re just amazing people. I think, I think this older, it’s really nice that, that, you know, MILF is the thing. Cause everybody loves the MILF. And so

Speaker 1 (31m 24s): The movie

Speaker 2 (31m 26s): Pretty much like there isn’t anyone that doesn’t like us, but I think we’re being recognized as women who have completed like the child years and the families and now it’s time to take care of us. And I think there’s just a sexiness about it. Right. Life experience, sexual experience, we just bring it and we really do. We do. And

Speaker 1 (31m 52s): Okay. So who’s been your most interesting interview so far, but of course, except besides me, besides me, who’s been your most interesting interview so far. You can’t, you can’t say me. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (32m 5s): Oh,

Speaker 1 (32m 6s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (32m 8s): Oh,

Speaker 1 (32m 9s): Okay. Now tell us the truth.

Speaker 2 (32m 11s): I have to say, I recently did the ball though. One, which I hadn’t mentioned to you.

Speaker 1 (32m 17s): Yeah. I saw that video. You sent me. Oh my God. Yes.

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): And so that one, I have to say, I liked it because first he wasn’t even really industry. He’s just invented this in his own bedroom and then it’s a product. That’s the first of its kind, which is something fuck someone with, with your balls.

Speaker 1 (32m 39s): I encourage everybody to, to Google it’s B a L D O. And

Speaker 2 (32m 46s): We’ll

Speaker 1 (32m 46s): Be right. There are two Wells and balls, right? B a L L D O. And gosh, I should know that I have them and watch that video. My only, my only criticism as a, as a marketing guy at heart is it’s a little long for a, for a, a marketing video, but it’s frigging hilarious.

Speaker 2 (33m 7s): It’s almost like, have you seen the Squatty potty video?

Speaker 1 (33m 10s): No, but I can imagine.

Speaker 2 (33m 12s): Yeah. I think they did that on that. Or I saw it on the Howard stern show, but it was the Squatty potty. And it was like just classical areas. It’s really long like that too. But yeah, so that product, I would have to say, because he literally invented this out of the air, you know, in his bedroom, he’s not industry related. He wasn’t, and the product is the first of its kind. It’s having sex with your balls. And it addresses things like impotence.

It’s just something different. And I, and he’s sending me one that I get to try out and I don’t have balls, but I’m going to find it.

Speaker 1 (33m 53s): I was about, I was about to ask you about that. When you, you said he was sending you one,

Speaker 2 (33m 58s): I’m going to, I’m going to find a set of balls. I’m really hoping for Jay Mac, but that’s another show too. I really hoping for him, but I’m waiting for it to come. And then when I find some balls, I’m going to make the first porn. Cause no, one’s done a porn with the Baldo.

Speaker 1 (34m 15s): There you go. Why that’ll be good for them? That’ll be good for them. Yeah. I’ll have to talk to somebody who used them first ad. And I’m a little careful with my balls, but anyway, okay.

Speaker 2 (34m 26s): That’s what he said. A lot of people are worried about the sensitivity, but anyways, okay. I’ll report back

Speaker 1 (34m 32s): Big fricking time. Okay. So you interview a lot of behind the camera talent. Why is that?

Speaker 2 (34m 39s): Because they, I think are not recognized enough. They are really the backbone of it all. They’re the foundation, the backbone, they, what makes it work? Your lights, your cameras, your writers, your brokers, your just, everything comes together. And then the person in front of the camera is recognized, but it’s because of all of them that they’re there.

So I would definitely have to say yes, I think that they’re not noticed enough. And they’re fascinating. The things they do, how they get into the industry, Blows my mind. Some of them, the stories are just, they’re great. They’re really, really great. How and most of us fall into it somehow.

Speaker 1 (35m 30s): Yeah. Well, yeah, absolutely. I sure did. So you attended three exotic expos, sheer. You referred to it earlier. What role did you take on and did you do any shooting there?

Speaker 2 (35m 45s): I got to do media this year. So I went for the station that I was, that I was on and I got to go around interviewing people at their booths. I’ve had a booth before at exotica. I’ve, I’ve been just a person walking around and being media was, it was just great. I just met so many people. I got to talk with them more than, than walking around.

Like you get to ask them questions and Interesting things about themselves or what they’re doing there. And then also, well, yeah, you get to talk to people in, in depth a lot more. So I really, really enjoyed that. I, I can’t wait to do it again.

Speaker 1 (36m 35s): Absolutely. So what’s the most bizarre request you’ve had from a fan.

Speaker 2 (36m 40s): So I have, I don’t know. I tell you, I attract like the most amazing people, but for some reason they tend to want me to watch their, whatever their fetishes. And they, I assume it’s because I’m quite animated. Like it’s real when I’m in shock. And I am in shock quite a few times, but I would have to say the CBT guy, cock and ball torture would be, he wanted me to watch him shove 15.

Q-tips down the, to the tip of his Dick. And he, he did one at a time and he used his hand sanitizer, a whole bottle on it. And he, the last time he started a light it on fire. I was like, stop, stop. Can’t do this.

Speaker 1 (37m 37s): That just makes know that just, that just makes me cringe and, and feel and pain. Just the way you describe it.

Speaker 2 (37m 47s): The nail file was pretty good.

Speaker 1 (37m 50s): Fuck

Speaker 2 (37m 52s): The pliers. Those were good.

Speaker 1 (37m 55s): Yeah,

Speaker 2 (37m 55s): It was, it’s pretty, it’s a lot to watch and it’s, it’s hard because I don’t like to see someone hurt themselves. So that that’s a conflict too, for me. Like when the fire came in, I was done. I said, no, don’t do it. And he did. He did. He did. I did on fire actually three times, but I was like stop and he stopped

Speaker 1 (38m 17s): God. So

Speaker 2 (38m 19s): Yeah, that would be my well there’s one more.

Speaker 1 (38m 22s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (38m 23s): There’s one more. So the weirdest request would have been, he wanted me to pee on the floor and then mop it up with my tits and be a human mop. I

Speaker 1 (38m 36s): Ah, yeah. Well that sounds a little gross, Scott. Okay.

Speaker 2 (38m 39s): I just don’t do things that are like humiliating or degrading. I humiliate the crap out of someone else, but I won’t.

Speaker 1 (38m 48s): Well, yeah, I need to have it. Then he’d have a video of it and he’d probably got bloated and yeah. So, no, it’s not a good idea. You don’t want to do, you don’t want to do, you don’t want to do anything that other people can watch that you’ll be humiliated by porn is great, but

Speaker 2 (39m 3s): Eating ass.

Speaker 1 (39m 4s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39m 5s): Well I know now.

Speaker 1 (39m 7s): Okay. I get it. I get it. Wouldn’t be, Wouldn’t be, wouldn’t be my cup. Wouldn’t be my cup of tea there. Trust me. I prefer to eat other things. So if money, if money wasn’t an obstacle, what role would you be playing in the industry?

Speaker 2 (39m 25s): Oh, I would definitely be shooting my, like producing and being my own studio because I’m full of ideas. The ideas come to me constantly. So, and at the end, they’re good ideas. I know they are. I just can’t bring them to life often. I give them away because I want to see it happen, but I can’t usually it’s finances. Why you can’t bring something to life. So yeah, I put that.

Yes, but that doesn’t mean tomorrow. I can’t.

Speaker 1 (40m 0s): Yeah. That’s that’s, that’s certainly something to strive for. Isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (40m 4s): Oh, most definitely. Definitely. But there’s just so many ideas. They come to me constantly

Speaker 1 (40m 13s): Write them down and keep them don’t give them away.

Speaker 2 (40m 17s): That’s exactly what I do. Maybe when I get

Speaker 1 (40m 19s): Giving away. Exactly. Cause giving away. Good. Well, don’t invest all of it in our business. Giving away, giving away the old, the old joke is I, in fact, I read this God. I was down in Cabo and it was, what did they call it? Oh, it was the, it was a great in the gringo Gazette. I’ll never forget. And they had in the green Gazette, they asked a question, how do you get $1 million in Cabo? And the answer was you invest $2 million in a restaurant.

So I think the same, same could very well hold true for our industry and production.

Speaker 2 (40m 58s): Anyway.

Speaker 1 (41m 1s): So tell me something about you that most people don’t know.

Speaker 2 (41m 4s): I’ve never had a cavity in my life.

Speaker 1 (41m 7s): Okay. Well, you, you would have been great for a crest commercial, but maybe you can, maybe you can go a little further than that,

Speaker 2 (41m 15s): But, but, but, but I, but I, I do go to the dentist too, so it’s not, cause I don’t go. I’m a very much a home body. I’m loam a lot. I work probably 15 to 17 hours a day, online, seven days a week. It’s a lot.

Speaker 1 (41m 36s): It is.

Speaker 2 (41m 37s): And non-line meaning, you know, calls and all kinds of stuff. But I would have to say that I am a very much a home body. I’m not a partier. I don’t go out. I have a very select group of friends. When I go to the events, I do let loose and have a lot of fun, but most people would think that I was a porn star, not The typical, you know, slut out and slut, meaning a good in a good way.

Speaker 1 (42m 11s): Oh, well of course. Is there, is there a, is there a bad way?

Speaker 2 (42m 17s): No, there’s no bad way to see.

Speaker 1 (42m 19s): Great.

Speaker 2 (42m 20s): So, but I don’t. Yeah. Like I said earlier, I don’t date anything like that. So I’m pretty reserved in at home and I keep to myself, but, but I have everybody on mine. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not. If you have like, I don’t know anyone where I live, except for the mechanic that ripped me off. That would be pretty much it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42m 43s): And I guess you won’t be inviting him for Thanksgiving. So

Speaker 2 (42m 49s): I’m like, dude, are we still doing the, like back in the day? Like, are we still doing this mechanic woman thing? Like, come on now.

Speaker 1 (42m 56s): Yeah. Believe it or not it, believe it or not. It still exists. And the hilarious thing is I know nothing about cars and they’ve never tried to rip me off. But

Speaker 2 (43m 5s): Yeah, no, cause you’re not a woman. Your boobs aren’t big enough.

Speaker 1 (43m 8s): Yeah. Well I got pretty nice food, so yeah. You’ll see when you meet me. Well, This isn’t video, this isn’t video. So

Speaker 2 (43m 20s): I’ll go ahead.

Speaker 1 (43m 21s): So where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (43m 23s): So you can find me on Twitter at Lily Craven and it’s L I L Y C R a V E N. XXX. And you can see my website, which is Lily Craven, xxx.com. Facebook. I actually run a pay-to-play Facebook group still for five years. It’s called camp morning wood, but we still content out of our inbox and you can contact me there directly. And I will interact with you and I can do, you know, video chats make you custom videos, sell pre-made videos, you name it, sell panties.

I do it all. And that is Lilly dot Craven, 40 and chatter bait. Lily 40.

Speaker 1 (44m 13s): There you go. And then you’ll do, you’ll do everything. But you won’t mop with your tits?

Speaker 2 (44m 18s): No, not that I just didn’t want it, but I passed it on to someone else and she did a fabulous job.

Speaker 1 (44m 25s): She did. She did.

Speaker 2 (44m 27s): She did. I always had, if I don’t do something, I will find someone that can do it.

Speaker 1 (44m 32s): Well, Lilly I’d really like to thank you for being our guest today on the adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 40s): I hope we see each other this year or wait. It’s not this year 2022.

Speaker 1 (44m 47s): I will see you in a couple of months.

Speaker 2 (44m 50s): Yes. I look forward to it. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (44m 53s): It’s a pleasure to have you. Once again, my broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy, then establishing what your budget is next. It’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult site broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can also act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site.

Other places to look are boards like biz.net and GF y.com. But to be completely honest, unless what you’re looking for is a really low end property. You’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course you could contact site owners yourself, but take it from someone who does this for a living. It’s a major hassle, and it can be really hard to even find out who owns the site. Almost all adult sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar. So when you send them an email, it will be to an anonymous address.

And in most cases, the emails aren’t returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out, we’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with Leya Tanit of pineapple support. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Lily Craven. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Julia Epiphany.

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A profitable industry, recognized dating network with a unique channel for genuine female adult dating traffic. The company was launched in 2010. It was nominated best dating program by X biz in 2012 and AVN in 2013, they’ve generated nearly 200,000 profiles of real women to the dating network and continue to add approximately 5,500 new women each month through natural search results and unpaid link placement.

These women have created sexy profiles and uploaded photos to attract men and most of supply to government issued photo ID. These profiles can be imported into any dating or cam network. The network’s traffic is 91% direct and 8% organic geo-targeting services, runoff MaxMind data. They’ve never marketed to their lists or members outside their own network or dating sites. So this is a huge opportunity for anyone interested in marketing, similar dating offers or other adult content and services, their main developers available to continue as a contractor only $372,000.

Now time for this week’s interview, my guest, an adult site broker talk is Julia epiphany. Julia, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk

Speaker 2 (3m 6s): And thank you for having me. It’s a real pleasure.

Speaker 1 (3m 9s): It’s a pleasure to have you. Julie was born in Canada with dual Spanish citizenship. She is a fierce feminist trilingual fluently in English, French and Spanish and boasts on athletic five 11 tattooed 38, D 30 36, figure with a pierced left nipple and appears to cock. Ouch. She sounds like she has a love for socializing, fine dining, fast cars, amateur photography, playing competitive badminton, and while doing porn, she continues to develop her career in it and pioneering nanotechnology at Julia’s very first adult industry nomination after only a few months of camming was for trans cam star of the year at the why not cam awards while in Hollywood to attend the awards.

Julia was crowned by cam four to be the August, 2019 cam for cover girl. And by the way, she was their first ever trans cover girl. Congratulations on that. That’s awesome. I mean, December Julia was fan voted nominee for two AVN fan awards, favorite trans porn star and favorite trans cam star. Then toward the very end of 2019, Julia received her first transgender, a transgender or erotica award nomination for best non us performer.

A few months later in February, 2020, she was a finalist for the live cam awards as best trans live cam model, bringing the total nominations for Julia’s first area in professional adult performance to five, which is amazing. Now in July, she earned her sixth nomination being a finalist for the X biz cam awards for the best trans cam model award in September, she launched an official epiphany online merchandise store. In October, she started offering financial domination, custom videos for up to a hundred thousand dollars for a five minute order.

How many of those have you sold?

Speaker 2 (5m 10s): That’s the train sake, right? I’m not going to get into that.

Speaker 1 (5m 12s): Okay. Okay. We won’t. Okay. I just, just wondering now sailing into her third year, Julia partnered with AIP daily as a guest columnist was honored by cam four as their viewers choice trans broadcaster for north America for 2020, and has given interviews across the entire industry. And now on adult site broker talk, and we’re very happy to have you now, what was it like to go from the world of tech into the world of porn?

Speaker 2 (5m 42s): That’s a good question. I get asked that pretty frequently. I mean, it was, it was a big jump. I gotta say. You know, I I’d spent many years in the amateur sort of a fetish world here in Montreal. We have a very vibrant fetish community, you know, we have every year or at least prior to COVID the Montreal fetish weekend. That is, I would say even world renowned, they have people fly in from, you know, all over Europe, United States, Latin America.

And I participated as just a, an amateur model, you know, several, several times for different designers, latex designers in my private life, you know, in Montreal, we have also a very vibrant culture here, very open, you know, sexually in, in just like, you know, embracing, you know, pride, for instance, gay pride. We have a huge pride parade here every year.

Speaker 1 (6m 51s): San Francisco. I know about pride parade.

Speaker 2 (6m 53s): Yeah, for real. Right. So, so yeah, prior to jumping into professional adults entertainment, you know, I hadn’t really engaged too much with the professional community. I had an idea, you know, you get to know some of the players, some of the names, but really being in front of a camera coming from basically the private sector or the private, you know, where people kind of don’t know who I am, you know, I was a public figure or whatever.

It was a big jump and there’s really nothing that can prepare you for that. So I got to say getting in front of the ball, making sure that I kept, you know, all my PS and QS as lined up as I possibly could. That was the biggest challenge. You know, being a model, you know, you know, standing in front of the camera, you obviously, you, you want to bring your a game, right? You don’t want to just like slouch and like do whatever you want to really, you want it, you want to show off your showboating, but you know, like all of the, the back end of it, like the administration, you know, content management, you know, as a techie, I dealt with a lot of that.

Like, I’ve worked with some very, very large organizations, you know, fortune 100 fortune 500, I’ve worked in the, the video game industry, but it always as an admin, you know? Right. So like you’re just managing these heaps and heaps and mounds and mounds of somebody else’s data. Right. But then on the flip side, now that’s your data, you know, it’s like, you’re, you’re, it’s your body, it’s your, you know, your entire persona, your, your reputation, you know, it’s, it’s who you are, who you love.

You know, you got to nurture yourself, got to protect yourself. What do you like to show? What do you like to emphasize? You know, what message are you sending all that stuff? And, you know, looking at it from the technical perspective, you know, it, it, you know, it was just like, oh, it’s, you know, it’s a, it’s a, an MP4 file, you know, a few hours of file. But looking at us as a performer, it’s like, Hey, that’s like five or six hours of some harder and work. Yes. You know, so it really changes your perspective. It really makes you appreciate the industry in a way that you would have no other way of appreciating it, unless you’ve actually tried to do it in front of the camera.

So that have to say was really the biggest challenge. When I first started, you know, pro work, you know, being a professional, you know, adult entertainer, marketing myself, you know, in, at the top of the, of the industry, you know, like really pushing that envelope. And, and then, you know, as in the, in the backdrop of all of that, you know, is to make sure that all of the rest of, you know, my, my career path wasn’t forgotten, you know, like, I mean, people have a tendency when they get into porn and they say, you know, I, I switched careers or I changed careers.

And I really think that that does, you know, a disservice to people like me who, you know, had a very successful career in another industry prior to injuring porn, because it, these things are, you know, not necessarily mutually exclusive, like there’s, you know, a lot of overlap between the tech in my, in my experience, the tech world and the porn world. Like, there’s, there’s so much there that you can still carry over. And as you read my introduction, you know, nanotechnology, I, you know, I don’t want to get too far out into the left field there to borrow a baseball term, but I like that.

Huh did. But, you know, nanotechnology also works into that because, you know, it’s the future of material design. It’s the future of, you know, building, you know, a, an interconnected world where networking and media and, you know, things like encryption and things like rights management and things like, you know, crypto, I mean, crypto is not per se derivative of nanotechnology, but in order to drive that industry in order to, you know, feed into this demand, that crypto is, I suppose, maybe famous or infamously known for you need some really, really, you know, increasingly demanding raw computing power.

And the only way to get there is to drill deeper into the technical well, that is, you know, chip production that is efficient, you know, computing power, and that’s now the technology, you know, and then quantum computing and all that stuff, the next generations that, you know, you and I probably won’t be around to see the fruits of, but eventually it’ll get there and erotica will be, it will be absolutely in the front, in the front row. Like it’s, you know, humanity, you know, we need erotica, just it just for our own wellbeing, our own mental health, you know, nobody wants to admit it to themselves.

We’re all like in the shadows sort of like hush hush, except for the really like the brave that, you know, understand the importance of erotica and the adult industry. But the truth is, you know, erotica, you know, sex that will be with humanity for as long as humanity exists, you know, you’ll never exactly right. You’ll never get to the point where it’s just, you know, okay, shake your hands. All right. You’re pregnant. Like it doesn’t work that way, you know? Exactly. So it’s a, me too.

There you go. I, you know, I hope not. And embracing our sexualities and exploring the unknown, you know, that’s the kind of thing that, you know, I, I really look forward to and I’m trying to sort of appeal to the larger audience, you know, as far as, you know, my brand, you know, that’s my name, Juliet epiphany, you know, the orgasm of the mind, it’s just sort of like trying to like open up our, our view of, you know, what is possible in erotica and what, you know, people can find attractive stimulating, and always of course, like, you know, safely doing it safely, doing it in a way that, you know, th th in a legal way that, you know, you know, abiding by people’s, you know, expectations of, of, of like consideration, obviously consent is a huge, huge part of that, you know, different areas of the world have different perspectives on what they think is erotic or, or, or not.

So you have to try to respect that as much as you can. Right. So, so that’s, that’s the whole sort of like package of what is, you know, Juliet epiphany and how I’m trying to bring, you know, my tech knowledge and the perspectives of, of technology, like, you know, in the, in the tech world, you know, this is the GDPR, which was huge, huge, huge that, you know, the whole world sort of had to wrap their head around, you know, protection of privacy, you know, there’s things like HIPAA, which United States is huge.

Well, all that factors in very similarly to porn, right? Like all of that, a lot of that logic still applies. And if you don’t have firsthand knowledge of the implications of all that stuff, you know, in the tech world and how deep those topics go, you wouldn’t necessarily be able to like, make that, you know, parallel in porn. Right. And I, I have firsthand knowledge, so I I’m, I’m happy to share that. And I, I really, I enjoy sort of, you know, chewing the fat, but no pun intended on, on, on all of those topics and really kind of hashing it out and seeing how all of that stuff, you know, affects the adult industry.

Speaker 1 (14m 47s): Sure, sure. Now you didn’t make it physically this year, but how did you enjoy the, why not awards when you attended?

Speaker 2 (14m 56s): I thought they were fantastic, you know, the kudos to Jay and Connor for, to stick it, to sticking through it. You know, th you know, I, I think that, you know, we, we really on the daily sort of, we make light of the pandemic. We’re like, oh, geez. You know, another, another vaccine, you know, third shot, or how many times am I push pin cushion, all that stuff, historically though, you know, pandemics of this, of this scale only happen once every a hundred years.

So that’s what these guys are. That’s what these guys are up against. You know, they’re, there’s putting on a show, you know, they’re putting their entire, you know, their professional reputation on the line to put on a show to the best of their abilities in the middle of a pandemic, you know, last year, it wasn’t possible. I don’t know how I know that there was some marketing, I don’t know how far into that they got, you know, I, I don’t keep track of J and Connor’s progress as a, as business people. And, you know, that’s out of respect for them.

I don’t, I don’t want to keep tabs on people. I don’t think that’s respectful, but I think last year it kind of was a bit, you know, it kind of, it wasn’t as successful as it might’ve been. I don’t know if it was outright canceled again, forgive me, Jane Connor. If I got some of the facts wrong there, but this year, you know, I really felt like they, they really tried to sorta like kickstart it. And I think they really did a really great job, even though it was not ideal conditions, you know?

And, and they, I think they should be commended for that because, you know, they’ve both been in the business for, you know, a few decades. And I personally, me, I wouldn’t even know where to start. I wouldn’t know where to start.

Speaker 1 (16m 39s): Yeah. I would not want to be a show promoter or hotel owner, or a lot of things these days. I was just thinking about that today. Being out here in Thailand, I’m thinking about the poor bar owners and restaurant owners and all the people who keep getting put out of work. I mean, it’s just, it’s just horrendous.

Speaker 2 (17m 1s): How

Speaker 1 (17m 1s): Long do you think you’ll keep performing for the camera?

Speaker 2 (17m 5s): As long as I can really, you know, I’m here on your show is Juliet epiphany, you know, as a, as a model, as what we call talent in the industry, I’m not shy about my age. You know, I got started, I was 43 when I, when I did my first shoot that was with Gruby yep. 46. Thank you. I’m 46 now. And I know, you know, I, I, it’s, it’s pretty unusual for people to start this late. I do have a few years, I won’t say decades, plural.

I think it’s a bit of a stretch, although I did do sort of like, you know, a bit of a, an erotic shoot, very, very experimental. And the late nineties, you know, I wear a half harness. This is, well, my transition, but really, as far as like being a model that goes, I’ve only had about a decade of experience and only a couple of all three years now in the adult industry professionally, but you know, how far into the future will that go?

You know, I, I can just cross my fingers, you know, because it really is a huge passion of mine. And there isn’t really, you know, I w I would argue, and I think there’s a few celebrities out there who would agree with me that there isn’t really an age that you sorta like, you know, you can’t perform anymore. I mean, Dolly Parton was recently quoted as saying, she’d shoot again for, for Playboy, if she had the opportunity and God bless her, really, because she’s an amazing, amazing woman. And I have so much respect

Speaker 1 (18m 37s): For her.

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): Absolutely. And she was one of the pioneers too. Right. And look how much she’s done in her career. Really amazing, amazing woman. So, you know, I mean, God willing that as long as I could, as long as I’ve got strength in my bones, but it, that way

Speaker 1 (18m 54s): Now you mentioned, you mentioned Gruby and since I’ve tried kicking and screaming to get Steve on my podcasts, but I can’t, he’s just way too shy. Yeah. Right. How do you enjoy working with that organization?

Speaker 2 (19m 11s): I owe them a lot. They gave me my break, you know, they shot with me in 2019. They shot with me five times five different scenes were released. Four of them were with a candidate, girl, girl, their, their Canadian brand, and one for the groupie girl, their, their main brand. Right. And I love all of the shots, every single last one. The video’s amazing. I w I loved working with the, the producer V Soho.

You know, I connected with him. We met up very, very briefly in the summer so that he could pass me my, my courtesy DVD. I’m on two DVDs now. Thank you. The first one was a Northern nymphs number two, where I was showcased on the spine. And on the back, I didn’t make the cover of that, but still putting me on the spine. I was really humbled by that. Yep. And then this last one, Northern NIMS, number four, which was released in the summer, they put me on the cover.

Thank you. Thank you. With three other models. I think the, the DVD has a total of six models. Four of us are on the cover and it’s, I, I can only speak for myself, but it really is a, it was a tremendous to, to see myself on that cover. And my fans also absolutely love it. And I’m just, you know, I would, I would love to be able to, to continue to doing business with Gruby in some way or another, you know, and it’s, like I said, it’s a really competitive industry.

You know, not a lot of girls or women. I, I really should probably use the proper term. You know, everybody likes to say girls, but at my age, you know, in a woman is, is probably, you know, the best, most, most accurate way of describing myself, you know, across the board. I am trans, but, you know, I, I, I really don’t feel like I fit the, the milk category. You know, I’ve mentioned that before, and I know that they do milk, but, you know, I I’m such a performer. I feel like I’m like MILF would kind of kinda, it would put me kind of off to the side a little, I feel like A little bit.

Yeah. And I’m not, I’m not sure how, you know, the direction for that or how that will evolve for me. And I, you know, I’m, I’m hoping that I’ll be able to continue shooting with some really awesome talent.

Speaker 1 (21m 48s): Now, now talk about what Groobees done for the whole trans market.

Speaker 2 (21m 53s): That’s a good question. You know, the T’s are coming up, which is the trans erotica awards. They were renamed. It was used to be transgender, erotic rewards. Now they’re just simply trans or radical words. And I’m campaigning. Actually the last day of campaigning is coming up. I, in a few days, I don’t know when this episode will be released, but I’ll try.

Speaker 1 (22m 16s): Sorry. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (22m 18s): No, that’s okay. That’s okay. Not a problem, not a problem. I’m not, I don’t want to sort of like constrain anybody, but say, if I get nominated for the teas, you know, it’ll be my, my second nomination for them. Just the fact that, you know, Gruby is so involved in the teas and they have, you know, promoted the teas and the trans, you know, porn industry for so long really is a Testament to their, to the devotion, to, to trends trans people and trans erotica.

And, you know, I think that, you know, it it’s, I mean, porn is always going to be contentious of no matter, you know, who, who talks about it, like you wind back the clock in 1970s. I mean, all the same arguments, you know, were around back then, you know, and then, you know, it’s like the gay scene, you know, gay male erotica was like, you know, backroom type stuff, you know, nobody wanted to see it. Right. And then, you know, slowly it became accepted as like, Hey, what will you know, why are we treating these people like that?

They, you know, we should, you know, there’s a lot of people out there that really like, you know, gay porn now, not just gay men, like there’s like straight women that just love gay porn. And, you know, it was like, what’s wrong with that? You know, like there’s people loving each other and it’s the same thing for trans, you know, it’s like, Right, exactly. And there’s stuff that some people like that other people don’t like it was okay, well then just don’t watch it then. Okay. I mean, it’s just, it’s that simple. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23m 48s): Yeah. I agree. But I, I personally think, and I’ve known, I’ve known Steven since he started really shortly after he started Gruby back to when he had a business partner and back in the day and what I’ve seen, the development I’ve seen of Gruby I think really parallels the development of the whole acceptance of trans people. And I, I just think what they’ve done there has been just incredible.

And my hats, I take my hat off on a regular basis to, to what’s been done and how they’ve, you know, helped the trans porn market in a huge way. Yeah. Yeah. So I’m glad to hear that you’ve, you’ve been able to shoot with them. So, so what inspires you Julia,

Speaker 2 (24m 43s): Across the board? You know, I get inspired by a lot of things. You know, I, you know, this podcast is I’m here as Julia epiphany, you know, as, as a performer, you know, what inspires me, you know, I like seeing other performers succeed even beyond, you know, my, my work as a performer, just in general in life. It’s very inspiring to see people succeed in life. But the, the adult industry is, is, is really tough on talent. And people kind of just get chewed up, seeing people really tough it out, you know, love themselves, embrace, you know, their success.

It’s, there’s so much humanity in, you know, the porn industry that we don’t get a chance to really see because, you know, we, we just, you know, tits and ass and Dick and everything like that, you know, you don’t sit back at, you know, at the end of the porn, you know, with, with the towel on or whatever, and be like, I like this, a philosophical debate that this person had, you know, they, that’s not, that’s not the first thought that comes into mind, but everybody, all, you know, every last performer, we all have our own lives, our own perspective of life, you know, our own dreams, our own aspirations.

And you don’t, you don’t see that, you know, on the screen, but you do when you’re a performer and you follow all these people, you know, on Twitter, you know, social media in general, listen to their podcasts or interviews or whatever. And seeing, seeing people, you know, reach their dreams and really sort of embrace their, the things that they wanted to see happen that didn’t make sense, not embrace them, but rather sort of see, see the things that they want to have happen, actually come together.

You know, I think that that’s really inspiring and it’s, it, it gives, you know, a hope in, in a whole different way, in a whole different context that you don’t get to see very, very frequently.

Speaker 1 (26m 46s): So, so who inspires you?

Speaker 2 (26m 48s): That’s a, that’s a big question. Like there’s different ways you can see pornography, you know, you could, you could see us all, you know, as sex workers, you know, different flavors of sex workers, you can also see us as actors and actresses. You know, you mentioned you’re in Thailand. You know, if we, if we really, you know, fan out what it means to be an actor or an actress in way early in my transition, there is a tie public figure.

Very, very well known by the name of non tomb. She’s transgender. And she, she became an actress, but she started her career as a, as a Mai Tai boxer.

Speaker 1 (27m 39s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (27m 40s): Prior to her transition. Yeah. Oh yeah. She’s very well known. She’s she became an actress. How does this relate to, oh, without a doubt, you know, she, she’s a huge success story. National treasure, basically. She’s had movies, beautiful boxers, the movie, if I’m not mistaken of her life.

Speaker 1 (27m 58s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27m 60s): Yeah. Her story is, is really inspiring. I mean, I’m inspired by many, many people, you know, Stephen Hawking, you know, across the board, but like, just to focus on the adult industry, you know, as an actress, I don’t know if she did any erotica or porn. I know in Thailand, you know, the trans community is very often associated with the sex industry. And, you know, I don’t know if non tune did so, you know, forgive me if, if I’ve, if I’ve made that

Speaker 1 (28m 31s): Porn is kind of hard to do here, considering the laws.

Speaker 2 (28m 34s): Right. I, I, I’m not familiar with that, but it,

Speaker 1 (28m 38s): Yeah, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a lot easier to get by with prostitution than it is with porn. If you get caught with porn, you go to prison. If you got caught with prostitution, you generally get a slap on the hand, just to kind of like to know how it is out here.

Speaker 2 (28m 53s): Got it. Well, either way, I don’t know if a non Toon ever did prostitution or was it escort, but as a, an actress, you know, the, the inspiration of her life, she, she is on record as having confirmed that she, she became a Mai Tai boxer to pay for her surgeries. So she, yeah, she, she be a national champion, my Thai boxer.

Yep. And she, after she, she left the sport, she, she transitioned. So it’s like, she, you know, she fought, she fought for her whole career as, as a, as a, as an and my tie. I mean, everybody, you know, knows how, how difficult and how, how demanding a sport it is and how yeah. It’s a, how brutal it is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29m 50s): They used to have, they used to have a, my tie, a gym and a condo of building where we owned a condo in Bangkok. So I got out a lot of, I got, I was able to look at the training and things like that. They work hard.

Speaker 2 (30m 5s): Yeah. They do. But it’s also a very closely guarded traditional sport. It’s the other thing. And it’s typically very masculine. So to have this fighter who was a national champion, then transition was a really, really, really big deal. And, you know, for me seeing, knowing her story, this is years I’ve. I discovered her years before I started my transition way, way before I ever thought of even getting into porn.

But, you know, she she’s, I find her story so inspiring that she became an actress, films were made with her in it. And also movies were made about her, you know, for me, you know, in Thailand, of course, where, you know, a transgender, the transgender culture is, is so well-known. And so recognized globally, really, I thought was okay,

Speaker 1 (31m 3s): I live in Petaja, it’s a, it’s very commonplace.

Speaker 2 (31m 7s): Right. Exactly. And you know, for me, you know, I play competitive Babington, as you mentioned, it’s not a martial sport, but it, there are a lot of parallels there it’s very fast paced and very hard on the body. And, you know, I attribute my, my good physique now to having played it for many years. And again, I’m not by any means a national champion, nowhere near it, you know, regionally based, maybe on a good day, but, you know, I just, you know, as an, as, as a, as a porn performer, as an adult actress, you know, my, my persona, the Juliet epiphany, you know, sort of like person that I hold very dear to my heart, you know, it’s still, it’s, it is an entity that, you know, I, I manage as, as an actress.

Okay. I, I try to make that as clear as I can to all my fans, because, you know, there’s, you know, people, there’s a lot of requests and, you know, people are under the impression that, you know, they can sort of just call me up for a date type stuff. And I have to make that very clear, you know, because it, you know, I mean, I guess I’m not the only one by any means, I’m sure people will ask for that kind of stuff all the time. And, you know,

Speaker 1 (32m 31s): Men’s a, men’s, men’s fantasies tend to run wild,

Speaker 2 (32m 35s): That’s the thing, but that’s, that’s sort of what you’re selling. Right. It’s, it’s

Speaker 1 (32m 38s): Hollywood what you’re selling, but it can also cause problems.

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): That’s right. That’s right. That’s why it’s such, it’s such a delicate topic. It’s so it’s so difficult to navigate, but, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we’re actresses, or many of us are actresses. And, you know, in that sense, there’s a lot of actors and actresses out there that I really look up to some that started in porn and others that did not, and they found their own life path. And, you know, I find those types of stories really, really inspiring for sure.

Speaker 1 (33m 11s): Absolutely. What do you love the most about the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (33m 16s): That’s a good question. I know, I would say, you know, our, I guess our constant appetite for sort of new, a different spin on a, on a recurring theme or altogether new themes, you know, like things that people, you know, have, have, have sort of recreating a look or recreating a style in a modern or postmodern or futuristic context.

I love how that, that there’s a lot of inspiration there. There’s a lot of sort of creativity, you know, the cause play. I think that that’s fantastic. I don’t, I can’t cause play. I mean, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve never really put a lot of effort into it, but I see some of the cost players out there and the effort that they put into their shows and it’s really amazing. It’s, it’s really a fantastic, and that’s just, it’s just one small segment of, you know, the industry that is so incredibly creative, you know, I really, I think that there’s a lot to be said about the performers that are, are, you know, put so much on the line to push boundaries and do it, you know, in a way that just, it, it, you know, you can’t help, but just like, you know, be mesmerized by their, their, their stamina, mental stamina and physical stamina.

Is this just phenomenal really? And it’s some, some smaller performers, like the they’re brands that aren’t as well known, maybe as well as the really, really big stars, like, you know, with the hundreds of thousands of followers, you know, it’s, it’s across the board, you know, creativity, you know, beyond all the politics, creativity is something that you can, you could sorta like zero in on and be like, wow, this person just, they, they, they love who they are or they, they love, you know, developing their, you know, their, their brand or, or, or connecting with their fans or, you know, just, you know, living life.

It’s I really like that about the industry.

Speaker 1 (35m 35s): Sure. Do you want to be the first porn star to shoot a scene in space?

Speaker 2 (35m 43s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (35m 45s): I do. I, I mean, you know what, it was a month ago, you know, William Shatner was, you know, he’s the first, I think not octogenarian he’s 90, so Levinton Arion anyway, you know, he, he, he was in space. He, it turned, he attained. I don’t remember what the minimum is. Right, exactly. For a 10 minutes. And he’s, he’s 90. And, you know, if we all, you know, look back, you know, star Trek as a, as a series also pioneered some really, really important, you know, perspectives that could persist even today.

I mean, there’s still new star Trek episodes, you know, with sir Patrick Stewart playing captain of the card, you know, so many Jerry Ryan who’s come back also. I totally have a huge crush on, you know, William Shatner. Who’s also from Montreal, by the way. Yeah. A little, little name drop there. He love him or hate him. He really pushed the boundaries on that show.

And this is before the first moon landing, right? So this is the sixties that star Trek star was released. And then the moon landing was 69

Speaker 1 (37m 8s): Sounds. Right.

Speaker 2 (37m 9s): You know, the first interracial click kiss was on that show on TV between between hoorah and, and, and Shatner. If I’m not mistaken, gosh, I hope I got that. Right. You know, they, they broke a lot of barriers and, you know, come full circle, you know, here he is in outer space, you know, and if, if you know that the space programs are interested in, in exploring, you know, space, you know, somebody somebody’s going to be the first porn star in space, somebody’s going to shoot the first scene in space.

It’s going to, it’s going to be somebody, right. You know, I’m 46, you know, I, I have a very strong technical background, you know, I know that G-forces to, to beat the gravity or you can be pretty intense. So I, I, you know, my implants might have to come out or something, I don’t know. But, you know, I mean, if there’s any, if there’s a hat to throw my name into, I’m throwing it in,

Speaker 1 (38m 2s): There you go.

Speaker 2 (38m 4s): Pick me. Why not? Like

Speaker 1 (38m 7s): Jeff Bezos is listening,

Speaker 2 (38m 10s): Hopefully.

Speaker 1 (38m 12s): So why do you describe yourself as mostly lesbian?

Speaker 2 (38m 17s): It would be inaccurate for me to say that I’m just lesbian period. You know, I’ve in my private life. I I’ve been intimate with a few different men on different occasions. And you know, it’s not that I, I, I dislike being with men. There are some lesbians that really just don’t like men at all. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, you know, there’s this term like gold star lesbian, you know, a woman that has never slept with a man. And I, you know, I respect people that, that feel that they need to identify that way.

And there’s no, there’s no problem with that. You know, that, you know, recently there’s a, a huge, you know, a lot of controversy surrounding a BBC article about, you know, trans women, you know, coercing, you know, lesbian performance performers to have scenes with them. And I, you know, I, it was, yeah, it was a really big deal. It’s still going around. Hopefully when this podcast airs, it’ll have gotten sorted out, but, you know, I feel very strongly about that. And, you know, I don’t want to perform with, with women that, that don’t, that don’t want to, obviously, you know, it has to be hope.

It has to be copacetic has to be mutual. And, you know, by that same token, I would feel the same way about men. You know, I don’t want to have some guy come up to me and be like, oh, you’re not a woman until, you know, but at the same time, you know, I’ve had some, I’ve had some really nice interactions with some really great guys, you know, I prefer women, you know, I much prefer the company of women. I much prefer being intimate with women, but, you know, it would be, it would be an unjust or unfair of me to say, like, you know, you know, no man has ever, you know, been nice or whatever.

Cause there have been. And you know, if I had the opportunity to perform with a, with a man in a scene might not be my first pick. I would certainly, you know, want to do my first scenes with women. But if there was like a threesome scene or like an orgy or something like that, or maybe further down the line when I’ve, you know, had the opportunity to shoot with, with women, if there was a scene that came up with a guy, you know, I, I definitely might consider it. And I want that to be, you know, the, to put that out there, you know, for whoever’s listening to podcast or I think it’s, you know, I, I just think I needed to be, you know, cleared up basically.


Speaker 1 (40m 41s): So what sort of porn do you like and what are your kinks?

Speaker 2 (40m 45s): Oh gosh, I love, I love like a snow bunny porn. I think it’s so hot

Speaker 1 (40m 57s): Snow bunny porn. Okay. You’re going to tell you what that is.

Speaker 2 (41m 0s): So, I mean, you know, for lack of a better term, interracial porn, you know, you have a, a big black ball is a Southern known with the snow bunny. I think that’s super, super hot. I mean, you know, it, it’s, it’s straight sex, so it’s, it’s, it’s almost always a, a, a male, a black guy with a white a woman. But I think that really turns me on about it is the passion that they have for each other, you know, like they really connect there’s this, like this, this like yearning there’s this like this like deep, deep sort of connection that I feel I empathize with because I feel the same way about, you know, mistress, if I were to perform with a, you know, a demanding quote, unquote, demanding mistress, something like that.

And I’d be her trophy wife, you know, that sort of like connection is something I really, it really sort of like speaks to me. It really turns me on, I really liked that, you know, orgies also, I think that’s super hot, you know, threesomes, and it was, there’s a long list, but you know, I also personally I like, you know, extreme anal for myself. That is, I, I think that’s a, there’s a, I don’t know, a special sort of desire or hunger in me for some reason about that.

And I just, I can’t get enough of it. Those are a couple of things that really, that kind of, I find myself going back to recurring themes.

Speaker 1 (42m 36s): Okay. Now, will we ever see an autobiography or a memoir from you?

Speaker 2 (42m 43s): That’s a good question. That my, one of my fans actually recently offered to do my memoirs. And I think that, yeah, I thought that was so touching. I was like, wow, I never thought of that. You know? And I’m like, geez. I mean, I guess I got to start thinking that way, you know, or I don’t know. I mean, I would love to

Speaker 1 (43m 4s): Just be very interesting.

Speaker 2 (43m 6s): I thank you. I try to make it interesting. I would try to sort of like keep it as concise as possible. Cause I’ve, you know, I mean, I’ve had a lot of adventures in my life, not to say everybody else hasn’t, but you know, I’m pushing 50 at this point. And, and I I’d like to sort of like be able to sum it all up in some way that, you know, could get offer future generations, some, some, some inspiration, or sort of, you know, something to draw from.

Speaker 1 (43m 34s): Do you know, do you know coral and Juul?

Speaker 2 (43m 37s): I’m not, I can’t say that. I do.

Speaker 1 (43m 39s): Yeah, you too. I should, I should connect you too. Cause she’s she just, I think she just finished her second book and that’s somebody you should definitely get to get to know. She’s she’s, NTUC also started into porn later in life. So I think you guys would, you guys would hit it off. Really good.

Speaker 2 (43m 57s): Cool. Cool. Yeah. I mean, sure. It sounds, I mean, I trust you, you you’re really down to earth or at least a that’s my brush and so far. Yeah. If you want to, if you want to put us in touch, I would love to

Speaker 1 (44m 9s): She’s been on the podcast twice, so yeah. I don’t have repeat people unless they’re very interesting and very popular and

Speaker 2 (44m 18s): She’s

Speaker 1 (44m 19s): Definitely, she’s definitely got it. Go on. So

Speaker 2 (44m 21s): Message received, I guess it was nice to know you, Bruce. No, I’m kidding.

Speaker 1 (44m 28s): So what do you like to do for fun?

Speaker 2 (44m 30s): I mean, I love badminton, I think is a great sport, you know,

Speaker 1 (44m 35s): Badminton. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (44m 36s): Yeah. In Western culture, you know, in, in the Americas it has a bad rap sort of, you know, it’s kind of people are criticized for sort of like being wimpy and all this business, but, you know, I, I, I, I have a very, very deep respect for badminton. It’s kind of a cross, you know, beach badminton and competitive badminton are very, very different, you know, it’s kinda like, you know, biking to the Cornerstore versus a competitive cycling, you know, it’s, it’s the same, it’s a bicycle.

Okay. But you know, it’s very, very different demand on the body. And, you know, in Asia, badminton is, is very renowned or, or with a high regard high esteem in Europe too. I think the America’s, you know, we owe it to ourselves to sorta like step up a little in that arena. We, we, we are competitive to a certain degree, but not nearly like they are in basically the rest of the world. And, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a cross between fencing and gymnastics.

So it’s, it’s very, very fast. It’s the fastest bracket sport. Oh yeah. Sort of the clock smashes. It’s something like a 200 or 200 plus kilometers per hour.

Speaker 1 (45m 49s): Yeah. I watched, I watched a bit of it in the Olympics and it was, it was a very good,

Speaker 2 (45m 53s): Yeah. It’s, it’s great. It’s really great fun. I love to play it. It’s a, it’s been a lifelong passion. I, I hopefully, you know, when COVID lifts, I had a, a co co co player in French C I don’t want to say teammate because we weren’t on the same team per se, but someone who would, who play at a, a, a gym recently reached out to me asking if I’d found a new place to play at night. I, I, unfortunately I haven’t because you know, COVID is just, it’s still affecting all public spaces in that sense.

And I would love to get back on the courts, but you know, other than that, what do I like doing? I, I mean, I like going on bike rides, like watching TV, watching movies, you know, I’m kind of, you know, I I’d like to, you know, I read a lot online, you know, I keep my technical skills sharp. I also play video games. You know, I play Fortnite for crying out loud. It’s just, I mean, it’s one of the most popular, they are 300 million players worldwide or something like that. Something crazy like that. And it’s, it’s a lot of fun. So, you know, I do that too. I try to, I try to keep the keep things diverse.

Speaker 1 (46m 59s): Very good. Well, Hey, Julia, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (47m 8s): It was a real pleasure, Bruce. You’re a really fantastic host and I hope I hope I get to enjoy another, another podcast episode at some point. So feel free at any time

Speaker 1 (47m 17s): I look forward to it. My broker tip today is part, one of how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a campsite, a dating, a membership site, a social media site or something else. If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and what niche? There are literally hundreds of nations in many sub nations. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears for mature, bareback, Asian, Latino, amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification.

Plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms straight has even more sub niches. I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site, or I want to buy a porn site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoyed should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like man, and want to make money on a straight site. That’s probably a really bad idea.

Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays a part, what’s your budget. This is something you need to establish at the very beginning. Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want to campsite with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, by any established site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re going to need a huge investment to build it up.

In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk more about this subject next week. And next week, we’ll be speaking with porn actress, Lilly Craven. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Julia Epiphany. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with porn living legend Nick Manning.

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Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult state broker talk is porn star, Nick Manning. Nick, thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 33s): Thanks for having me, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (2m 35s): Hey man, it’s my pleasure. I’ve really been looking forward to this. Now tell people about you. Those that don’t know Nick is one of the best known porn stars of our time. He is a self-professed sex. God he’s made several mainstream appearances, including crank high voltage Hogan knows best in sons of anarchy. He played a strip club owner in the 2011 independent film. Cherry is first non porn lead role in 2014. He was inducted in the AVN hall of fame.

Since then he’s entered the apparel business featuring his most popular sayings from his scenes. He’s published a biography titled dropping loads, which we’ll talk about in a bit. The Nick Manning story he’s created NFTs developed multiple fan sites and social media sites shot mainstream movies, like I just mentioned. And he started a podcast called you, guessed it, drop loads with Manning and Mo Nick recently launched a new site. The real Nick manning.com. What I need to know is, is there a, is there a site called the fake Nick manning.com?

Speaker 2 (3m 40s): Well, I mean, you did a really much better job at talking about this than I could. So just keep going.

Speaker 1 (3m 48s): Don’t try this at home. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (3m 50s): The only correction is it’s just real Nick manning.com. It’s not the real,

Speaker 1 (3m 56s): Oh shit. I’m sorry. No,

Speaker 2 (3m 58s): It’s okay.

Speaker 1 (3m 59s): Let’s try this again. Okay. Nick recently launched a new site, real Nick manning.com. Is that better?

Speaker 2 (4m 6s): Yeah, much better.

Speaker 1 (4m 9s): So there’s so is there a fake Nick manning.com out there?

Speaker 2 (4m 13s): I’m sure that there’s about 250,000 Nick Manning imposters. I’m sure. I’m not sure what they come up with, but every now and then it’s the funniest shit you’ve ever seen these guys trying to pretend to be me.

Speaker 1 (4m 30s): That’s good. That’s good.

Speaker 2 (4m 32s): In fact, I wanted to write into the show catfish and just tell them like the things that I know about.

Speaker 1 (4m 40s): I bet. So now you’ve been known to say that you’re frustrated with the lack of professionalism. That’s permeated the adult space. And I can’t say I disagree with you, but why did you specifically say that?

Speaker 2 (4m 54s): Oh, I mean, isn’t it, it’s just obvious. I mean, we’re understand. I got in the business in 1997 and back then I was a, a mainstream actor and model full time. And they asked me to do a Playgirl. I went and got a play girl, looked at it. I’m like, look, if you want me to sit around the center, fold like a stroke. I’m not doing that. I go, but I notice that in the back of your magazine, you have like a guy fucking a chick, like you’ll do that.

I was like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (5m 32s): So

Speaker 2 (5m 33s): I did one and I went right back to doing like Bally’s and men and commercials and Disney print ads. And, and the next year, sure enough, they wanted me to do another one, brought me up to New York. I was living in south beach at the time.

Speaker 1 (5m 48s): Nice

Speaker 2 (5m 49s): Had me fucking other girl and guys like, Hey dude, you’re great at this. Like, I’m going to send you out to LA to all my photographer buddies. And you’ll be the best thing that ever hit porn from the day you start. So that’s what would happen. I’d be shooting Disney. And I was on a TV show in south beach called the fugitive. I was on all my children in New York and they’d fly me out to LA. And I do, you know, four or five different sets a week with like people like Earl Miller and Suze Randall and all those cats.

So eventually the cat got out of the bag that, Hey, this guy from Disney is also Nick Manning. The porn star

Speaker 1 (6m 35s): Was going to ask you about that.

Speaker 2 (6m 37s): So the next thing that happened was I walked into the vivid and wicked offices and I said, Hey, I know you guys have been trying to shoot me for three years now, but now it’s, I guess my mainstream career is over. So they said, can you do a movie tomorrow? I was like, yeah, sure. They go, we’ll fire the lead that we have in our movie and your rent. So I went to my first, they go, how do you think you’ll do I go? Well, I guess we’ll find out tomorrow.

I guess they liked it. Because as soon as my scene was over, I was like toweling off and putting my robot and the production manager ran up to me. He’s like, grab your calendar. I want to book you for 20 more dates. Wow. And I was like, it was just off and running. So in that three-year period, I ended about 400 magazines. And then in the next three years I did a thousand movies.

Speaker 1 (7m 33s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (7m 34s): So, and to answer your question, a lot of those movies were on film and they were like big productions. And I just saw every single day of my career, the quality and the equipment and the attitude of the people on set. And I mean, it became a business of who was your director. Oh, I guess it’s some failed male talent. Right. And it’s like, so me personally, I’m not big on doing shit.

I’m not good at okay. So I know I’m, I’m supposed to be in front of the camera. I’ve never picked up a camera. I don’t own a camera. I don’t take stills. I don’t know shit about any of it. So, I mean, I liked it when you left the work of a professional to the professional and now it’s just a business of, everyone’s a fucking Jack of all trades. So it’s all mediocre. Yeah. And I don’t want to be involved in any shit that’s mediocre.

Speaker 1 (8m 39s): Yeah. So tell me, tell me some stories about when you got found out by, by your mainstream bosses that I want to hear about.

Speaker 2 (8m 50s): Well, okay. So that mean I had different agents, like I was with Ford in New York and Chicago and J Michael bloom was my commercial agent, but my major agency was Irene Marie and Miami beach. And they had nothing to do with hooking me up with these Playgirl shoots. So I’m not even sure that they knew about anything I was doing. They just knew I was going out to LA.

And one day I got a call from my agent. Her name was Allie. And she said, you can’t go from triple X to G overnight. And that was kind of like, what was funny about it was she was insinuating that somehow the mainstream career that I was building was like shot. And the truth of the matter is now my mainstream career is better than ever because people hire me to be Nick Manning.

Speaker 1 (9m 51s): Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sure. Oh, sure. Absolutely. It’s gonna really come full circle as an it.

Speaker 2 (9m 57s): Yeah. And dropping loads became more popular than I ever was, which was kind of like ironic in and of itself.

Speaker 1 (10m 4s): Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. So why did you construct the portal that has become real Nick manning.com.

Speaker 2 (10m 14s): All right. So this is another long story, but

Speaker 1 (10m 17s): Go for it, Nick, we don’t have a time limit.

Speaker 2 (10m 21s): And about 2007 ish, people started doing other kinds of projects about me. One was a bio pic. One was a documentary. One was a book that they were writing. One of them, they took the documentary footage that they weren’t going to use in the documentary and kind of turn that into like a reality show. So I had in various stages of completion or slash development, a bunch of projects that weren’t finished or ready to be released simply because I was shooting for my own company shooting for everybody else, like penthouse 11 days a month, Playboy’s six days a month.

So, I mean, I was on a contract with sin city to make drop a loads films. So it was very difficult to take these. Let’s just call it more comprehensive things and bring them to completion. And unfortunately for me, typically what happens is people want to get in business with me because they know I’m popular and they know I’m smart and they know I’m diligent.

Speaker 1 (11m 37s): Right.

Speaker 2 (11m 37s): Okay. So what happens is it’s all fun and games, the comment to Nick Manning’s house and go to his shoots and go to AVN and go to parties and film him. And everybody’s asking you, oh, who the hell are you? Why are you filming Nick? So now they get their own little celebrity going and pretty much they’re riding my coattails and I really don’t need a posse.

Speaker 1 (12m 3s): So,

Speaker 2 (12m 4s): So pretty much what happens is once the fun is done and it’s like, oh, now we need to digitize our footage and edit our project and get it sold. Well, then that becomes quick sand. Like they don’t want to do it. So initially what I’ll do is I’ll take my ball and go home and I’ll just be like, fuck it. I’m just going to go to work and make sex scenes every day. But eventually it starts to trouble me.

And so then I basically took from 2014 to 2020, I shot a bunch of more drop-in loads, hardcore scenes. But then I went back and sat with the editors on all these different projects and got them completed. So at the end of 2020 Mo called me and said, Hey, you know, I’ve been trying to get you to do my radio show with me for fucking ever, but he’s in the Midwest and I’m in LA.

So the best we could ever muster was I would host it with him for a couple of weeks, a year, Go out to visit them and host a show everyday on FM radio. And, but once podcasting became popular, he’s like, Hey man, we can do a podcast. We can do it remotely. We can do it together or whatever. So I right away, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, instead of just incubating all these projects and then selling them to some investor, a bigger porn company, I was like, we might want to develop this shit.

So I sketched down on some graph paper. My idea for real Nick manning.com, the corporate staff turned it into what you see today. And I got to tell you it’s in a fucking adult Disneyland.

Speaker 1 (13m 58s): Yeah. Yeah. It’s very, very impressive. So what are your plans for real Nick manning.com?

Speaker 2 (14m 5s): It’s funny. Cause we had a podcast yesterday, the first, since the press release went out. So I told Moe in the podcast, I said, it’s almost like today, we’re pressing the go button. And pretty much there’s 20 platforms on there, including all my fan sites, all the different projects. Some things are membership based. Some are paper view. Then there’s the store with the Nick Manning supplements, the male enhancement pills, bodybuilding supplements.

And then there’s all the clothing with my sayings. So the idea was to develop all of those. And we have two left one. We just went into business with a, a I M studio out here that does webcamming and Vegas. So there’s another section on my site. You’ll see it called Manning manner. And we are about, I don’t know, three to four weeks away from all the approvals and the streaming completion for that.

And then we’ll move that up to the top of the site and call it Manning or live from Las Vegas. We’ll have a solo girl, girl and I’ll do my boy, girl scenes live from there.

Speaker 1 (15m 21s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (15m 22s): And then the only other thing that isn’t operational on the site right now is only fans just because I’m not technical. And they require any of my staff members who were getting that account approved. They need to basically be sitting on my lap to do it. So that probably won’t happen until February.

Speaker 1 (15m 47s): Got it.

Speaker 2 (15m 48s): Got it. And then, and then there’s one other thing. I don’t know if you caught it on there, you said you bought my book, Nick Mannings, bedtime stories. Well, that’ll be one of the things that’s filmed out of the Manning Manor live in Las Vegas and pretty much it’ll just be a solo girl, masturbation, almost like a romance novel, except they read segments of my book and then they fiddle themselves.

Speaker 1 (16m 17s): Ooh.

Speaker 2 (16m 18s): So that’ll be very cool.

Speaker 1 (16m 20s): Yeah, that sounds nice. That sounds, that sounds extremely nice. And I should tell everyone, we’re recording this at the end of January. So tell me about Manning manner. I’ve heard so much about it. I needed description. I need kind of an audio virtual tour as it were.

Speaker 2 (16m 40s): Okay. Well, a few years ago before, before I sold all the companies that we still owned, including the supplement company, my house was all cammed. I was one of the early cam houses and there were a bunch of models and playmates and actresses and penthouse pets living at my house rotating through. And it was almost like the old Voyager cams.

Speaker 1 (17m 14s): You

Speaker 2 (17m 14s): Could see us any time. Right. It’s very, very lucrative. So technology’s changed a bit with the streaming company. So pretty much what we have at the studio is eight rooms. Six of them are set up like bedrooms with really high tech cam equipment and whatever. The, the best kind of hard wired connection is, again, I’m just relaying what they’ve told me about it.

And they’ll be solo girl, girl, and boy, girl scene is going on in there various times, 24 hours a day. Hmm. Okay. And so the, I guess the goal would be to have 18 different girls in there a day six at a time and three hour shifts, whether that happens or not, not quite sure, but it really won’t matter. Right. Whatever, whatever it is, it is then there’s two other rooms.

One of them will be, we have a podcast studio at top secret resort in Orlando, Florida. I live in a condo there and it’s basically a swingers resort slash hotel. It’s kind, kinda like a, you would call it the hedonism of America. And so we do a podcast from there. Plus we’re going to have a podcast studio where you’ll be able to through the Manning man or live stream, watch the podcast.

Speaker 3 (18m 50s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): And it’s cool because okay. So easy to get guests, we’ll pull a girl X out of room to bring her on it also that’s it makes our show much more dynamic. I think just because your guests are right there at your Beck and call, And then we have another room that leads out to a courtyard where basically that’s the old school lawyer room.

It’s just going to be set up like a lounge and he can watch us all the time in there. And we’ll be talking about who’s shooting bedtime stories today, what commercials we might be shooting to put on the clips that go on all our fan sites that basically just say, Hey, see more of me and nick@realnickmanning.com, stuff like that. So it gives like, let’s call it reality based subplots to what would normally be just a regular old webcam house.

Speaker 1 (19m 60s): And is this, is this a place you actually live?

Speaker 2 (20m 4s): Well, I could, I suppose if I wanted to, but I’ll probably just go,

Speaker 1 (20m 8s): Well, they call it Manning manner. I just kind of figured that your residence,

Speaker 2 (20m 13s): Well it’s, again, one, we had the Voyager house that was called Manning manner. So this is Manning manner, 2022. And instead of you being at my house, you’re at my studio, which just like the bedrooms that my house

Speaker 1 (20m 32s): Got it. I

Speaker 2 (20m 32s): Mean, and it’s, it’s really just a function of the technology’s changed. I mean, if you go right now, we have a white label that’s called dropping loads, live webcams. We’re still going to have that. You know how it works, you click on there and then on your screen, you see all these different girls in that case, they’re just using my, my name and likeness and the Manning or part it’ll actually be the girls that are at our physical location and me.

Speaker 1 (21m 2s): Okay. That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): So I mean the problem, I mean, if you’re a streaming service, what’s your biggest problem? Well, most everything is either solo or boy, girl with the chick’s boyfriend. It’s fucking sucks. Right. Because right. They’re all in their little apartments and houses. There’s no other talent. Well, we can, we can have boy, girl, girl, girl, and solo all the fucking time because we’re going to have six to eight people there at a time.

Speaker 1 (21m 34s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (21m 35s): Right. So that’s really, really cool.

Speaker 1 (21m 38s): Absolutely. So tell me, is there anything more about the site you want to offer?

Speaker 2 (21m 45s): Oh, I mean, the NFTs are on there, which, which is kind of unique and new and they’re really well done. I mean, they took me, they have hundreds of pictures of me from my modeling career that they’ve turned into NFTs and they’re releasing 10 at a time. So that’s, that’s pretty cool. And of course, I mean, what’s my favorite thing to do shoot the drop and load scenes. So that’s, that’s one of the cool things you’ll be in Manning manner and you’ll be watching live as we’re filming drop and load scenes, which eventually we’ll load onto the site.

Speaker 1 (22m 24s): Yeah, yeah. Not too bad. So who are some of the female stars you’re working with on the site?

Speaker 2 (22m 31s): Oh, I mean, I mean, you’ll have to just look at them. There’s a zillion.

Speaker 1 (22m 37s): Gimme, gimme some highlights.

Speaker 2 (22m 39s): Well, I’ll give you one of the coolest things that’s on. There is I used to make a lot of those Skinemax kind of movies. And one of the girls who I got to know pretty well was a real actress slash model. Like she’s been in movies with Kate Hudson. I mean, her name was Jackie Holland. And I guess you could say that she tricked me into a hidden camera, celebrity sex tape, and it’s marketed as the greatest celebrity sex tape of all time.

And it’s on my site on a pay-per-view it’s on it’s on there on a pay-per-view basis. And like, this is literally three hours or more edited to the point where if you buy the whole thing, I think it costs you like 8 99, but you can buy just part one or part two.

Speaker 1 (23m 34s): Sounds good.

Speaker 2 (23m 35s): Yeah. So that is really fucking cool. And I know it’s got a lot of, it’s one of those things that’s probably going viral as we speak

Speaker 1 (23m 45s): Churches. I’m sure it is. So, so tell me about the documentary coming out about you.

Speaker 2 (23m 52s): Well, if you scroll down to the, the portion that says being Nick Manning season one episode, I think there’s 14 episodes are up there and those are, those are, I think they’re selling them for a dollar 99 an episode, so everyone should check them out. But basically there’s 150 hours of usable footage that is going to, I mean, who knows?

We could have 25 seasons of 14 episodes, so it’s going to be like a lion king on steroids.

Speaker 1 (24m 31s): So is the documentary the same as the reality show? Pretty much.

Speaker 2 (24m 35s): Well, the documentary is a separate project. That’s not on my site and they’re still determining

Speaker 1 (24m 44s): What

Speaker 2 (24m 45s): Three hours of this hundred and 50 they’re going to use.

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (24m 50s): So that’s, that’s not my department.

Speaker 1 (24m 53s): Good thing. Yeah. Better, better than, than better than, than you. Right.

Speaker 2 (24m 58s): The rest of it. We’re turning into the being Nick Manning show.

Speaker 1 (25m 3s): Got it. And that’s the reality show.

Speaker 2 (25m 5s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25m 6s): Okay. Okay. Now I understand because it sounded like you were starting to talk about the reality show when I asked about the documentary and I needed to figure out what the difference was. And I think you, I think you nailed that.

Speaker 2 (25m 18s): Sure. What will happen with the documentary is eventually they’ll pick the best stuff and turn that into like a three, maybe a two part 90 minute segment movie.

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): Sure,

Speaker 2 (25m 33s): Sure. Right. So, but that’ll have to go to like, I dunno, Sundance or so I’m not sure how they think they’re going to bring it to market.

Speaker 1 (25m 43s): Yeah. I don’t know if Netflix is going to take it. We’ll see. They probably do have, they probably do have some restrictions. So how did you determine the variety of adult and mainstream products that would be included as content on real Nick manning.com?

Speaker 2 (26m 2s): Well, I, I would like to say that there was some sort of a plan, but basically it started out with, okay, here are these unfinished projects and I’m going to finish them and I’m going to make them really fucking cool. Then as we were in the midst of that, we were like, oh, well, fan sites are getting popular and we don’t do anything small. So some people have an only fan.

Some people have, and I want clips, we got all of them. There’s six different options for fan sites on the bottom of my site. So basically real Nick main.com. We wanted it to be a portal or once you’re in there, right. A customer you’re on your own. However you want to consume, we’re giving you as many options as feasible. That’s great. Right. And you know, like bedtime stories when you happen to have a book and it’s pretty cool book and it’s very popular and you come up with an idea where it’s like, Hey, we’ll have these girls read it.

I mean, who knows? There might be 200 episodes of that. Yeah. Because I mean, yeah, I’m thinking we haven’t started filming yet, but I would think five minute increments would be a good way to go.

Speaker 4 (27m 23s): Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27m 24s): Probably don’t want to do anymore.

Speaker 2 (27m 26s): Yeah. So again, I had unreleased drop and load scenes that we call the lost footage just because, I mean, we sh we shoot these things well in advance and then we never released them. And then during that 2014 to 2020, I shot new ones. So those are called new drop-in loads. And then anything we shoot at the studio will be edited and put in that section.

So I mean, it kind of just all happened. You know, you start down a path and you have a vision and then people throw a, I call it a monkey wrench, but it turned out to be good. That thing just became probably three times what I assumed it would be from the beginning. Sure. And then, and then with the products in the store, I mean, I don’t know if you recall this Bruce, but up until about in 2012, I really started taking control of when deals would come up for renewal.

We wouldn’t renew them. So at about, at the end of 2019, early 2020, I was for the first time in my career, a true free agent. That’s where we went from having 300 products and adult stores around the world and other outlets. I mean, my shit was in all the gas stations, all the trucks, I mean all, all the bodybuilding stores. So pretty much there were over 300 licensed products of me floating around the world.

Wow. And we said, you know, they’re making billions and we’re making tens of millions. The disparity just isn’t. So we took control of it. And right now we just have my supplement dropping load supplement line, which is cave Manning to Stasi Tarone monster Manning, HGH, Manning up prostate support, dropping loads, male enhancement pill, and a Manning nitro, nitric oxide.

So that those are the, that I take to be a stud. Okay. And then, then in the apparel section, we have men’s and women’s t-shirts, we’re adding hoodies and hats with all my trademark sayings. There’s I think there’s 20 different options.

Speaker 1 (29m 59s): I gotta get, I gotta get some, some workout clothes from you. Cause some good, some cutoff shirts, eyes

Speaker 2 (30m 6s): Shut.

Speaker 1 (30m 7s): I love it. Love it. Gotta get one that says dropping loads too. I want to, I want to see that. I want to see the looks on the parts of some of the ties who actually understand English.

Speaker 2 (30m 18s): Well, some of the people who purchased them for Christmas presents sent photos of them in their whole family, wearing these shirts. And Moe was like, can you imagine, you’d get your present from around the Christmas. And it’s a bunch of dropping loads clothing.

Speaker 1 (30m 36s): I’m looking forward to doing your, doing your podcast, by the way That’s going to be, that’s going to be, that’s going to be a lot of fun. I’m looking forward to virtually meeting Mo as well. So let’s talk about that. Now you told me how the podcast came about. So you answered that question already, but let’s talk about the podcast. What happens during the podcast? What’s it all about? Obviously people can listen and we encourage that. They do, but tell people a little bit about the podcast.

Speaker 2 (31m 6s): Well, I guess the best way to describe Mo is, and I’ve been on all these shows, not only in America, but around the whole fucking world where it’s like every local market has that guy. I call him, he’s the Howard stern of physical.

Speaker 1 (31m 23s): I was going to say, everyone’s trying to,

Speaker 2 (31m 27s): But I mean, in Chicago, it’s man cow in LA, it’s psycho Mike. Right? So I’m on all these people, Bubba, the love sponge. And So anyway, Mo was the guy who he contacted me even before Howard stern. I think he might’ve been in like Oklahoma city or Louisville at the time. And he’s like, I did research to figure out who you were because the first movie I saw you in, I was stupid and didn’t watch the credits.

So it took them like another six months to figure out what my name was.

Speaker 1 (32m 4s): God.

Speaker 2 (32m 5s): But he started having me on his show and you know, like I said, I’m not looking to take on it. I mean, I want to shoot drop and load scenes and run my studio. So I, I’m not big on like, Hey, let’s do some more shit that I’m not good at. So I said, Mo, if you want to do this show with me, what do you want me to do? And he’s like, oh, all you gotta do is talk to me. I’ll do the rest. I was like, oh, okay then,

Speaker 1 (32m 32s): Does he work? Does he work full time for you now?

Speaker 2 (32m 34s): Yeah. He’s he runs the distribution and so pretty much he’s managing real Nick manning.com on a day-to-day basis.

Speaker 1 (32m 46s): That’s great.

Speaker 2 (32m 47s): Right. And then we put, we podcast periodically. It’s going to be more often. I mean, we were podcasting very regularly and then the site kept taking longer and longer to complete. And I’m like, look, bro, I’m tired of talking about fucking shit. That’s not happening. So once we launched in December, we’ve been trying to podcast, but with the shitty weather, there’s always some reason that we couldn’t. And then I know you wanted to have us on before this and it’s like, look, let me get settled.

Let me get some tech people around me. And cause I don’t like when it a fucking internet cutting out it’s spinning. So yes, yesterday was the first day that we’ve actually done one since the launch.

Speaker 1 (33m 37s): Well, I’m glad we were able to set it up. So, so tell me more about the podcast.

Speaker 2 (33m 41s): Well, it’s, it’s basically what you think we talk and here’s the thing with Mo he always says that I’m a very worldly. So we talk a lot about my career and we talk about mainstream and celebrities. I know, but we also talk about sports and politics. I mean just about any topic, because I’m highly educated. I can hold some intelligent conversation about it.

Speaker 1 (34m 15s): Yeah. You were, you, you started out what is a stockbroker? I think,

Speaker 2 (34m 19s): No, I okay. When I was an undergrad playing baseball, I got a double major international business and economics. So I got a BA in international business and a BS in economics. And then right away I popped a hamstring. So I was off for eight, 18 months and I was like, well, what the fuck am I going to do? Just sit around here. So I went to grad school and I got a master’s of science in human resource management.

So then what I would try to do was I’d try to work in HR during the day and play ball at night and on weekends.

Speaker 1 (34m 58s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (34m 59s): And what was

Speaker 1 (35m 0s): Your position?

Speaker 2 (35m 1s): Well, I, well I played right field, mostly a little bit of third base, a little bit of left field and then I really became a fucking excellent first baseman.

Speaker 1 (35m 14s): Great.

Speaker 2 (35m 15s): Yeah. Like as I got more injured, I wasn’t able to play the outfield, but I wasn’t. Yes. I was a switch hitter and they wanted me to bang the ball around. So

Speaker 1 (35m 27s): They’re like the McCovey syndrome

Speaker 2 (35m 29s): And they thought, oh, well we’ll just stick them at first base. And then I became really fucking good at it.

Speaker 1 (35m 36s): Yeah. Yeah. Do anything you do anything enough, Nick and you get good at it. Like you fucking right. Well, we certainly have that common interest in sports and baseball and we can talk, we can talk a little sports when I do the, do the podcast with you guys. Now you’re working with long-time hustler, executive Michael Klein of next step entertainment. He’s certainly someone that, that I know very well.

How has that partnership partnership working out for you?

Speaker 2 (36m 11s): First of all, it’s great. Michael, Michael. I mean, you’re friends with him. He’s a cool cat.

Speaker 1 (36m 16s): Right? Smart, smart.

Speaker 2 (36m 20s): So as this process was going along, like again, I drew it on a piece of graph paper and I turned it over to Mo who’s a radio guy. And because he’s, he said, oh man, Nick, you need to be doing this, this, this, this, this. And I’m like, well, if you think so then you do it. I mean, you know how it is when you build a site and you have to get payment processing all

Speaker 1 (36m 48s): You’re like me. You’re like me. I’m not a technical guy. I hire people for that.

Speaker 2 (36m 53s): Yeah. So anyway, that’s where Michael Klein became invaluable because one, he had all the connections to, he’s been in web development and technology for a while. He means invented like the adult time channel. And so, and he worked at hustler for a decade working for very well. And I think his originally his, he was in like, OnCommand like cable television, like pay-per-view.

Yeah. So my executive producer at Manning Manor, who did the deal for the webcam studio, his real gig is he produces a boxing show where they interview boxers for, for the Nevada boxing hall of fame. So Michael, because he was in the cable side, had a lot to do in pay-per-view and a lot do a boxing. And when we went to dinner the other night, they knew a lot of the same people.

Speaker 1 (37m 52s): Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (37m 53s): So this guy that works with me is a persona is Vegas John triple X on Twitter. But I call him shark. He was like, oh, you totally undersold him. I’m like, dude, I told you, he worked for fucking hustler. And I said, well, tell you about a guy. Right? He goes, no. He goes, the people that he knows and the things that he accomplished and did are really impressive. I’m like, dude, I know, I just don’t go piping off about some guy you don’t know yet.

And, but I’ll tell you,

Speaker 1 (38m 27s): I was surprised. I was surprised it took him that long to open up his own deal because he should’ve done it a long time ago.

Speaker 2 (38m 34s): Well, and it’s very interesting because the way I got to Michael was I called a guy in Chicago. I used to work in HR with, because I know for the past 15 years he’s been, he’s been the CEO of his own company, which his wife inherited. And I just happened to call him because I was like, I don’t know what you’re up to, but if you want to run my company, well, he goes, he referred me to a guy named Jim little league who was, he knew. And Jim Lilach had a lot to do with Mr.

Skin back in the day.

Speaker 1 (39m 9s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (39m 9s): So Jim didn’t want to do it because he was doing something else. And he referred me to Jason Tucker, who was the guy that handles all the trademark infringement suits. And Jason referred me to Michael right away. I was like, oh, this is perfect because he knows all the things that I suspect don’t know how to do.

Speaker 1 (39m 37s): Exactly.

Speaker 2 (39m 38s): And so it made, I mean, I’m not saying that getting through 20 platforms of approvals and a portal was easy and getting the pro, I mean, you got to get the online store hooked up. So that orders go. I mean, so there’s a lot of fucking shit that has to get done. And from the time that we started building the site to the time that it was functional and then all the content had to be loaded into it, that probably took almost two years.

Speaker 1 (40m 11s): Yup.

Speaker 2 (40m 12s): So Michael has been instrumental like a conductor getting this thing to the point it’s at now, where once we do the Manning manner and the only fans were done for a while, it’s just going to be shoot, edit, put new shit up on the site.

Speaker 1 (40m 31s): Like until the, until the, until the next monkey wrench. Right.

Speaker 2 (40m 35s): Cause we don’t need any more

Speaker 1 (40m 38s): Until, until somebody else has an idea. Wow.

Speaker 2 (40m 41s): If they have an idea, we can get to that in 20, 24.

Speaker 1 (40m 45s): Exactly. So your content in general and dropping loads, content in particular is very highly in demand. Do you have any intentions of performing in scenes for other studios? Looking ahead?

Speaker 2 (41m 0s): No.

Speaker 1 (41m 1s): You like being a free agent?

Speaker 2 (41m 3s): Yeah. I mean, we’ve, we’ve talked about this a little bit internally and I’ve spoken to you about it. The only thing, and because I’ve incubated eight different companies where we started out in 2000, when I first started doing movies, I started making my own series called the fans have spoken. That was a company called Nick Manning productions. That company got acquired. Then the next thing I made was Nick Manning films. When I went on contract with wildlife, they acquired that.

Then the next thing I did was drop Nick manning.com. A penthouse acquired that. Then there was drop a loads.com and some company acquired it didn’t even use it as drop a loads.com and turned it into a dating site. And then there was platinum blue. And then there was Manning management, Nick Manning entertainment and Nick Manning dot. So this is like the eighth or ninth time I’ve done this.

And then with the intention that someone will swoop in and acquire us at a multiple,

Speaker 1 (42m 11s): Well, when you’re, when you’re ready, you know who to deal with.

Speaker 2 (42m 15s): Yeah. And in this case, I’m not sure that I would just do it like a simple deal like that. What I would probably do is say, look, we still want our, we still want to run the studio. We still want to shoot our own dropping loads movies with my crew. And we still want a podcast. So you can become our partner to some degree by shares minority, majority, whatever. But whatever happens.

I want a personal services contract with Mo that we keep doing the things that we like to do. And I will say this, let’s just throw out a name, mine geek. Right. Cause they almost should punch in the, if they want, if they had real Nick manning.com portal with what it contains today, the products given their reach. I mean, just like everything else. I can only take it so far because I don’t have the infrastructure, but my brand in somebody’s hands like that.

And that’s why Michael Klein it’s now it’s exponentially valuable.

Speaker 1 (43m 29s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (43m 30s): So that’s, that’s the idea, but I’m not going to just sell it and ride out in the sunset and start another one because I don’t want to go through the headache.

Speaker 1 (43m 42s): Been there, done that. Huh? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43m 44s): I’m not going to take another six years to

Speaker 1 (43m 48s): I get it. So I understand you’re developing a mainstream film called getting killed in Miami. When can we expect that project from you?

Speaker 2 (43m 57s): Well, that’s again, not my department. It has a script which is completed. It has a budget which was done by the distributors line producer. So that’s tight and it has a projected cast list when they get around to funding it and making it happen, they can call me and pay me my $1.5 million and I’ll come be George McCann and the movie. Other than that, I not having any more to do with it.

Because again, I did everything I could do getting the project to the two yard line. Now people more qualified. The neat me need to score a touchdown.

Speaker 1 (44m 41s): There you go. Well, you’re going to score the touchdown, but they’re going to block for you. They’re going to do the ball. They’re going to do the blocking, which is the, which is the real hard part. You’re just get, you’re going to, you’re going to saunter in and high step. One more question. I started reading your book last night and it’s fascinating dropping loads, your, the gap, the Galvin hint it’s interviewing you in it. She’s, she’s phenomenal.

And very, very funny. Tell me about that whole experience, how it came to be and talk about the process.

Speaker 2 (45m 24s): Okay. Maureen St. Charles is the writer’s name and she lived in Canada And I’m in Southern California. And she, I guess she must have emailed me or got hold of me on social media. But nonetheless, she said she wanted to write this book. I said, well, when you have time, get out to LA, you know, we can have a face-to-face meeting and discuss it.

Our first meeting was very interesting because the night before, as there’s always some drama at Manning manner, these two girls got a little carried away and were fighting in my driveway.

Speaker 1 (46m 8s): Oh, nice.

Speaker 2 (46m 9s): So I’m in the shower and Maureen sitting in my sitting area, in my bedroom waiting to meet with me here comes one of the girls from the night before storming up to the room, topless, looking for me to apologize. So that was Maureen’s first interaction. And I get out of the shower, my towel and a robe or whatever. I’m a total, a woman. I’m like, look, I’m in a meeting right now. I can’t deal with you.

But when you can stop acting like a high school chick, you can come back.

Speaker 1 (46m 48s): So

Speaker 2 (46m 49s): Maureen and I had a good conversation. I said, I have a couple stipulations here. One, I don’t know what you want to call this book. But back then, that’s when Howard stern wouldn’t shut up about dropping loads and all the other Howard Stern’s like mall around the world. Wouldn’t shut up about dropping loads. So I said, clearly dropping loads is more famous than Nick Manning. I said, we have to call it, drop it loads.

If we want to make money at this.

Speaker 1 (47m 22s): Exactly.

Speaker 2 (47m 22s): And she went along with that. I don’t think it would have been her first choice, but I mean, it’s kinda like my, my distributor one day at platinum blue comes up to me. He’s like, Hey man, Skype wants to make these beautiful sky blue directed movies. And he goes, yeah, we sold them the cable. And we sold them to all the hospitality worldwide. He goes, but for DVD sales, really, all they want to know is when’s the next fucking dropping loads coming out.

Exactly. He goes, it begs the question. He goes, why aren’t we calling all our movies dropping loads? And from that point forward, every fucking title I ever put out was dropping low. We’re like dropping loads 476 or whatever. So it was the same thing. So it’s like sometimes just reason leads you to, I don’t care what you want to call it. We’re calling a drop in loans.

Speaker 1 (48m 23s): Exactly. Hey man, that’s your brand.

Speaker 2 (48m 26s): I mean, and so the other thing I said was, look, I know you think I know everyone in Hollywood, but I don’t. I’m on the set 330 days a fucking year. I work out, I fuck girls on television and I come home and go to bed. I said, that’s my life. So you are going to have to get this book published. Oh, sure. I’ll make that happen too.

Then I said, the third thing is, you don’t know me. I don’t know you. I don’t know how you’re intending to do this from Canada, but that’s not going to fucking be any good. I said, the only way I’ll agree to this is if you take a hiatus from whatever the fuck you’re doing and come down and live in the maid’s quarters at my house and you stay here until you’re ready to write your book. I don’t know how long that’s going to take, but you can come everywhere.

I go 100% full access to me. So that’s why I think that my book is better than most biographies or autobiographies because I mean, she got to see firsthand, you know, what was happening. And that brings up a whole nother topic. People read my book and most says, oh man, and you never talk about all the celebrity. I go, because I think like when I say things that are common to me, people think I’m full of shit.

So I just keep it to myself. And, and so people reading my book are primary. Like there’s no fucking way that this is this guy’s life. But the good news is being Nick Manning and dropping loads. The legend of Nick Manning. We’re being filmed at the same time she was writing the book. So there’s visual evidence, no fucking accurate.

Speaker 1 (50m 27s): And if somebody doesn’t believe it, fuck them. Right?

Speaker 2 (50m 30s): Yeah. Well, yeah, but I mean, if I was just somebody in, I dunno, Oklahoma breeding drop a loads of Nick Manning story. I think it was fucking invented too, because there’s no way people tell me all the time. There’s no way that this is your life. It’s like you go to bed and there are six girls in your bedroom. I’m like, yeah. And I got a Crow. I got, I got crawl over bodies to go take a piss.

Speaker 1 (50m 59s): It doesn’t sound like a bad life, Nick.

Speaker 2 (51m 1s): No, I’m, I’m very blessed, man.

Speaker 1 (51m 4s): You are indeed. You are indeed. Well, look, Nick, this has been a blast. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I really hope we get a chance to have a part two.

Speaker 2 (51m 16s): Yeah. And I’ll get with Mo and we’ll have you on our show.

Speaker 1 (51m 21s): I look forward to it. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sales price of a website. Number one is usually profit. It will be a multiple of the profit. And that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times or more, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area.

I’ve also seen valuations of one times. Profit. If the profits taking a nosedive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and review traffic are the most valuable tube. Traffic. The least valuable is the traffic reliable and sustainable. What’s the traffic history in a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue.

The same factors apply to that as a profit and the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website is the domain of.com or something else? Dot com is still king. How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount and quality of traffic to it.

And how much time would be involved? What’s the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week, how to buy a website and next week we’ll be speaking with Julia Epiphany. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Nick Manning. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Jason Maskell of lifestyle.money.

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Now, let’s be true. Our property, the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network.

The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. Nothing has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to the German and Italian languages. Google has placed the websites in good search positions. There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload.

So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and also buy traffic only $595,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult state broker talk is Jason Maskell of lifestyle.money. Jason, thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 50s): Bruce, how are you? Thank you very much for having me on again.

Speaker 1 (2m 54s): It’s a pleasure and I’m doing great. Now with over 20 years in the adult industry has worked in a number of areas. His companies currently work in the financial services sector, media, sex, tech cannabis, and more his latest project, which we’re going to be talking about today is lifestyle.money. So Jason, tell me about yourself. Tell the listeners briefly about your employment and professional history. Well,

Speaker 2 (3m 20s): As you say, Bruce, I’ve been in the adult sector for 20 plus 22, 23 years. Now I got into it by accident. I think a lot of people in this sector do seem to sort of just fall into it by mistake. I, I came to it on the production side as a makeup artists, then more agency got into then co-producing and working on sets and working on productions more then went more, sort of fell back into my business, my business, which was my, my business skills and sales and marketing before I got into adult.

Cause that was sort of just a big onboarding. This let’s change this to trainers and might make a part as do say, tiny different. So then I did more consultancy working on things, worked then for harmony in the UK, as a sales marketing to them, it was a global brand, pushed out there, pushed out their products a bit further. We then parted ways after two and a bit years and did more consultancy. And I was looking at into what could really help the business.

And we were looking at projects I could do that would really take the industry forward. So I look more of the financial services side and we, we started off, we’re looking at sort of crowdfunding and lifestyle money’s already come out of there.

Speaker 1 (4m 38s): Yeah. So let’s talk a bit about lifestyle.money, your new digital wallet. How did it begin?

Speaker 2 (4m 44s): Yeah, it really came about because I was looking at crowdfunding as an option and we were bringing out a platform which was going to be rewards and equity based. And we bought out the beta version in rewards and it was looking at that and it was getting some, some interest in the adult sector as an adult industry, crowd funding platform, we then wanted to move to equity and that’s where we need to have regulation to raise larger amounts of money and to promote those equity crowdfunding platforms.

And that’s where the problems came. We found that the companies we needed to work with to get the regulation in place didn’t want to work with us because of the sectors and that really put my nose out. And so I wanted to look at ways we could improve on things. And then we realized if we did get the regulation in place and then raise, you know, hundreds or millions of dollars in pounds worth of investment, that banks weren’t going to take it. Yeah.

They, you know, they’re closed down accounts all the time. Now it seems to people in need in the sector. So we took a step back and we said, right, let’s let’s look again, I a banking solution that can really take the industry forward and that’s where it’s come from. Hmm.

Speaker 1 (6m 4s): Okay. So what are the obstacles you found and a little more detail that affect businesses in our sector.

Speaker 2 (6m 12s): The first one is the banks and financial services call it their reputational risks and they don’t want to deal with you. So, you know, if they, if they’re finding that you just work in the adult sector, they will then just go, well, we don’t want you as a customer. We’re going to close your bank down. It’s the extremely high charges. It’s the high charges. The lack of real support that’s been the problems or the, this industry has, which has stopped at getting the proper investment that it needs into it.

And, and people being able to manage their businesses professionally and their financial side of the businesses professionally, which is which needs to change.

Speaker 1 (6m 52s): Sure, sure. Now, what were your thought processes to overcome these challenges?

Speaker 2 (6m 58s): And what we had to do is really look back at, we had to look back at the T you know, the problems are there and what could happen, what can be done to overcome some of these problems that these companies have in dealing with adult services. And the first thing we did was look at how it can be done the technology side of things. So we’ve gone out there and we partnered with a company that offers full banking, merchant, transactional payment services. So it can really, really, we can offer the industry what it can’t get safely and securely at the moment

Speaker 1 (7m 36s): Sounded like for a second, you were doing a, a rap song. So how does the digital wallet work?

Speaker 2 (7m 46s): Okay. So the digital wallet is a closed blockchain ledger community, similar to the architecture of Bitcoin. So every transaction is signed off by the community. Therefore it’s a hundred percent traceable and secure. So that’s backs the technology crux a bit why it works is the wallet holes, the top G 10 fair currencies. So your dollars, your pounds or euros, your Japanese yang, your kroners, Australian dollars, Canadian dollars.

It holds all these in place. It can also hold cryptos. It can also help commodities such as platinum gold, silver oil, gas, stocks, and shares. And a few other assets can be held within the wallet. What we do is we, people can upload their fear, their crypto, that deliver their goal. For instance, into the wallets, we then transfer that into a digital version called the digital that digital is then used either online in store, in person to do the transactions in the background.

So that’s just the, the digital working mechanism of it. And it works the same as any other payment system. So you literally, you log on, you scan a QR code. It asks you if you want to then join. If you’re say going to join us a website, you scan the QR code, it pings back to your app wallet and said, do you want to pay 29 99 for this website? You log in? You say, yes, you can access. Would you? 65,000 transactions a second.

Speaker 1 (9m 28s): That’s crazy. And that’s all, that’s all through the blockchain.

Speaker 2 (9m 32s): It’s all through the blockchains. Everything’s traceable. Everything’s safe. Everything’s secure. Yes. It’s all catching on blockchain.

Speaker 1 (9m 39s): Okay. What if I want to take cash out?

Speaker 2 (9m 41s): You just transfer it straight back out to your, your link bank account. Yeah. You link your bank account to the wallet, to upload funds into it and you can transfer out. We also have a debit card in come and working online with it. So you can actually then go into your local Starbucks or supermarket, and actually just use that prepaid debit card to actually spend as normal. Or you can then transfer digital wallet to digital wallet.

If you need to make a payment to someone else in the industry.

Speaker 1 (10m 14s): That’s awesome. Now, who would be your primary target customers for this?

Speaker 2 (10m 20s): Everyone in the adult sector and the cannabis sector, that’s had enough of being charged to high rates, not having their support and want to offer more flexible payments solutions to their customers. Sure. So what we’re saying to everyone is, you know, we’re not looking to take over from your current billing, not straight away, but we’re an additional service where the new, additional service that you can open up, your payments can pay you in crypto. They can pay you in gold. They can pay you in any range of fear, currencies, and we’re offering you a much better, much, and right than your current pay.

And we also offer better payment rates for any outgoing payment solutions you, you need to make. Okay? So we’re that flexible solution that is really open to everyone that wants to offer a new, more flexible service to their customers.

Speaker 1 (11m 12s): Now, another thing is that’s obviously come into play lately more and more. If you can read between the lines, it looks like credit cards in the adult industry, eventually visa and MasterCard are going to pull out and not, not offer credit cards to adult. I know they haven’t said that they almost don’t have to because they keep tightening the screws on us. Dang. How, how does your solution help merchants with that kind of thing?

Speaker 2 (11m 46s): The biggest thing is, cause we’re a closed community. You’re not using your credit card. You can use your credit card. If you want you to load your wallet, you can load your money direct from your bank account. But once you’ve got your money in your digital wallet, what you do with it is down to yourself. And no one gets to see what, what you’re doing with it. So if you put a hundred dollars from your credit card onto your wallet, your credit card company, you don’t know if you’re going to look at adult. If you’re going to buy some cannabis products, if you want to go into Starbucks and buy cups of coffee,

Speaker 1 (12m 18s): That’s a lot,

Speaker 2 (12m 19s): That’s a lot of coffee where you

Speaker 1 (12m 21s): Can get Starbucks. That’s gotta be at least five cups.

Speaker 2 (12m 24s): Exactly. So they have no, they can’t say, oh, we don’t want you to be watching that and logging onto that site because we don’t agree with anymore. They don’t have a say in how you put your money into your wallet because we’re a closed community. You can use go wherever you want. And we deal with all legal adult businesses.

Speaker 1 (12m 44s): And what about from the merchant side,

Speaker 2 (12m 48s): We offer better rates and we can offer better rates than the current ones, because we have our own private bank back in the wallets. So not many people realize that when there’s a merchant, you’ve got the credit card company, you got the merchant, you’ve got the bank, you got lots of, lots of people in that line, all taken a little cut at that merchant fee. So they’re all taken a percentage of it. We’ve literally taken all of those extra people out of the much and free is the it’s our bank and his house. So because of that, we pass those savings onto our clients so we can bring the merchant rates down.

Speaker 1 (13m 22s): That’s awesome. And obviously it makes it easier for the merchant to, to sell to the customers.

Speaker 2 (13m 32s): Yeah. We, we literally have a simple API that you put into your website to add the option on there because we can offer merchant rates. We’re talking to clients at the moment and saying, why not offer a reduction if someone uses the lifestyle digital wallet to pay, because we, we want to keep carry on policy. No, Satan’s down to the end customer. We’ll also bring it in other features. So we’re going to be having a loyalty card for the companies that want to join that. So their customers can actually start building up points and then spend it with those within the network of the digital wallet, within the Weiss.

Also we have a built-in marketing platform. So everyone actually accepts the digit, what it will be listed within the wallet. So when companies are in there, they can actually search through and find where they can actually use their digital wallet. So we’ve given that much support as possible to help promote this is a new flexible payment option.

Speaker 1 (14m 31s): That’s awesome. So what’s the basic functionality of the wallet.

Speaker 2 (14m 36s): Well, it basically holds assets for the owner. These, you know, and then these assets could be held in, in all forms so they can, they can hold their dollars. They can hold their pounds. They can all their euros, as we said, they can also, then if they’re traveling, they can just transfer which ones they want to spend from. So they, again, they got cheap FX rates is grateful. Those who people are traveling, either customers or businesses or need to travel or spend over different territories, how Bitcoin stellar, light coin at the moment, and we’re adding new cryptos into it.

You’ve got the physical commodities, such as gold and oil, and we have our own volts. So people can deliver their own precious metals to us. And it’s held in our own vault. You then got stock indexes, the FTE 100 and S and P 500 that people can hold within the wallet. And then they can transact with any of those. They want to, as you said, online in store or in person, that’s great.

Speaker 1 (15m 42s): What current services can, the digital wallet replace that people in our industry currently is?

Speaker 2 (15m 50s): Yeah, this is, as I said earlier, we’re not looking to replace anything from day one, but we’re looking to be an additional service, an additional merchant service. So we can be that payment solution is the first one. We can then do payments. So you can then do, if you are. Yeah. We know there’s lots of content creators out there, and they’re now working on multiple platforms. The feed, somebody platforms get charged by their banks to pay their content. Creators again is horrendous. So we can be a lower payment option for that.

And again, a faster where some platforms have to have minimum spends you don’t have to do that with us. You could do payments, split payments as is when a customer pays. We can split it to make sure everyone’s who is meant to receive that money is paid straight away. You can preset it to do payments Friday at 11 o’clock and it will automatically do that. We’ve got low FX rates. So you’re doing, if you’re buying sex toys in China and you need to pay them, you can get low FX rates.

Speaker 1 (16m 57s): Wow. So what, what parts of our industry do you think can be helped by the digital wallet and, and how can it help each of those groups?

Speaker 2 (17m 10s): Well, I mean, if we break down some of the areas, so the, you know, the first area is the POM sector is the adult services side of it. So on the porn side of it, on those members sites, it’s going to be great because you, you know, the end users got the anonymy they’re anonymous. So the banks are not going to know what they’re doing. So that’s a great bonus for them. Also a big one for that side of the sector is we’ve got building KYC. You’re going to know your customers are over the legal age so they can be spending their money on your site site safely.

Speaker 1 (17m 44s): So this whole, this whole controversy with, with age verification, this could solve that

Speaker 2 (17m 52s): This can actually be a major, major part of actually bring in bringing an age verification in, in a safe, secure way. Yeah, because with the wallet, you have to be verified. You have to do full banking, KYC. We know everyone who everyone is the great thing for some of the platforms that have content performance on it. They have to be do KYC as well. So you can ensure that anyone who’s loading content onto your site, they’re the legal age to do it as well. So we’re supporting businesses in the adult sector that way.

Then you’ve got the sex tech and sex toys. Again, anyone who’s operating online or in store, we’ve got easy payment solution there for them, which can, yeah, some people should embarrass her going into a sex shop or, you know, from a sex toy online. Again, we we’d get rid of the whole embarrassment side of things. And then for the content creators themselves, if they want to then sell their additional services, you know, panties and pictures and clips and everything else they want to sell, they sell direct at the moment.

At the moment they’re hindered by if they try and use PayPal, they get caught, they get shut down, they lose their money and they have to give their real name and address or their real name. So, yeah, which is not great. The banks don’t really like setting them up a bank account in their trading names. You say their performance name. No. So with us, we will give them a, a small business account. So there can be a sole trader, so they can have an account linked into their business name.

So then if they’re sending pictures and clips and panties and et cetera, they can just go out, give out their work, email address, which is linked to their wallet, their business wallet, and their fans can pay them direct into that. They can then transfer that money into their personal wallet. If they need to then go and say, Hey, I need to pay my mum some money I can put into their personal wallet and just pay people that way.

Speaker 1 (19m 53s): And what, and I would imagine also this could be big for say, well, for instance, what about cam sites that, that, that want to pay their models and, and the clips and the clips sites that want to pay their models.

Speaker 2 (20m 10s): I was also saying, there’s the way we can set out with this things like split payments. If it’s a cam site where the person has money from every clip or something like that, if the site wants to split that payment on a time of transaction, we can do that. So they can have multiple micropayments going into every transaction. So the form, it doesn’t have to wait every week and hit a hundred dollars or $50, or even $20 to request a payment. We can set it up. So it’s done every transaction.

So they could be earning money while they’re sleeping, every transaction coming in from every clip they’re selling. If that’s something, the platforms and the, the content creators want, you know, because this is a digital product. We have so much flexibility. So we can, what we do is we work on a bespoke basis. We’re not going to just say, this is what we do. There’s your price off you go, good luck. We say, what do you do? How do you run your business? How can we help you?

How can we save you money? What tools do you need? Do we have them in our arsenal? Yes. Do you want them? And then we will be spoke the package and the service for every company to everything can be different.

Speaker 1 (21m 26s): Wow. That’s yeah, that, that is a, that is definitely an advantage. I mean, Hey, you know, it’s, it’s a big deal. Now, when, when models get paid daily in this way, they could get paid instantly.

Speaker 2 (21m 40s): They can get paid instantly. I mean, when we know that every, you know, every platform has different options, some do weekly payments, some know they put money into an internal wallet and then they can spend a multiple performers. And that’s fine. We can just split payment on that model. That’s, that’s understandable. But if someone has a, you know, just buying from one performance, we can do split payments there and then straight away, and they get paid every transaction. So, yeah, that is a big one. But even where we already talking to a lumber company, you know, a number of companies that do weekly payouts and just from the feedback with them, we can see how much we can save them.

How much easier it can be on transactions for them just losing this minimum payment, I think will help so many content creators.

Speaker 1 (22m 29s): Oh, absolutely. Now let’s talk about the affiliate model. This, I would think this would be an excellent way to pay affiliates.

Speaker 2 (22m 38s): This is actually perfect for affiliates began. The biggest thing is everything’s locked in the blockchain. So every transaction is traceables. We know exactly where everything’s going so we can see. So in affiliates, this will just work, sit comfortably within their model as a payment option. And again, it can do instant transactions, instant splits. If they wanted that waiting monthly, no having to get you $50 or a hundred dollars or $200.

It can be your micro payment is done there. And then for you,

Speaker 1 (23m 13s): No, this is something you came up with over a period of time. I know we’ve been talking for a while that you said you wanted to, wanted to come up with a banking solution. Talk about the process from where you started to where it is today, where it’s actually a reality. And give me the steps and talk about what you went through, coming up with it. Cause I know it wasn’t easy. You talk about it now, like a, Hey, here it is. But you and I both know that this has been you and I are friends and we’ve been talking for a while and you said, God, I got to come up with a banking solution for this industry.

And I know from your standpoint, it’s the most sincere thing because you are frustrated along with everyone else. And I know it made the Croft crowdfunding side, virtually impossible, which is obviously going to enable it and a lot of other things. And we’ll talk about those things in a second. Talk about the process. Talk about from beginning to where you are today,

Speaker 2 (24m 15s): The thing we may, Bruce, and I think you realize is I’m. And also if someone says no to me, I’m like, right, I’m going to do it. I’m going to find a way.

Speaker 1 (24m 24s): And you’re like,

Speaker 2 (24m 26s): Yeah, piss me off. I’m going to find a way. And that was my thing with the crowdfunding. The crowd fund is, oh, that’s a great idea. That’s amazing. Noah’s only the auto sector. You’ll be brilliant. Great. Can you work with us? No. Reputational risk. I might. It’s going to cost me 50 K for your service for the year. Yeah. Yeah. I can’t take your money. You’ll be great. But we can’t take it. And it was that frustration really got me round up. So I then said, right. And then the realization that the banks wouldn’t take the money if we had the, the equity side in place.

So I started delving deep into financial services, looking at options. And do I go into buy a bank off the shelf? Yeah, well, I’ve even looked at buying a bank off the shelf. That was one option. And then we looked at the way banking’s banks work and the banking solutions. We spoke to a company, a couple of companies that do white label packages for banks. And again, we were having the same problem is that’s great. You’ll be fantastic. But we don’t know if we can work with you. Here’s 15 page document.

Can you fill it out? So we know we feel safe, work medius, and this wasn’t even coming from the, the area manager. This was going straight up to board level. This was being thrown up at the board level that some of these companies and the balls were coming back and go in, tell us more. We like it, but we really, really need to double-check and triple-check Kadri to check-in and just make sure that we’re okay. And I’m like, yeah, but you’re using it. So the biggest thing was frustration for me. And then we started looking at different platforms and realized the technology we needed.

And we worked with, we found and we’ve then worked with our partners to develop this package and develop this wallet. And the important thing about it for me was this has its private bank. So we’re safe. We’re secure, it’s blockchains, we’ve got transactions. Every wallet is audited. Every quarter to confirm what’s in the wallet is being held in the bank. So everything is safe, secure.

We’ve got four, four open transactions on everything. So everyone can see what the going. There’s also having services that I could hold my head up high and go, yeah, we worked with auto industry. I have no qualms about this. This is who I work with and not have any embarrassment about it. And with this technology and the way it is seamlessly works, it’s really, you know, it’s been a lot of hard work, a lot of headaches, a lot of research into finding the right way.

And also because there’s so much banking, regulation and legalities that we have to make sure a hundred percent rights. And because it’s set up as a private community, the digital version of everyone’s money can not be bought and sold. It can’t go on Coinbase or anyone like that. It’s not like a token like Bitcoin, you know, not be passed around is, is held within the private community. And it’s used as a digital form to make the transaction. And we do all the hard work in the background.

Speaker 1 (27m 37s): So on. So unlike other, so unlike other banks, this, the money’s never invested anywhere.

Speaker 2 (27m 42s): The money’s never invested. It doesn’t go anywhere. It’s never, yeah. The bank will take your money and then lend out 10 times. So the banks don’t have money or they don’t have your money. They don’t have anyone’s money. They they’re lending around to everyone and hope and everyone pays them back. Yeah. With us, your money is put in the bank and it’s kept there. And every quarter we do your report that says you got X amount in your wallet, digital version, your tangible version that the banks know is sitting in our bank and it’s still there and you spent X amount of it.

So you’ve got X amount left. So no

Speaker 1 (28m 19s): Novel idea, the banks don’t lend out your

Speaker 2 (28m 21s): Money. That money, no. I mean, we’re all looking. And one thing we are going to be doing again from our background in the crowd funding is bringing investment into it. So we’ve got escrow people into the digital wallet already. So we’re going to be looking at investment platforms within the wallet. So one people are in there, they can do one click and they can load money into either an investment fund or individual projects that will be staged tours of the wallet as well.

Speaker 1 (28m 52s): Nice. But it will be their choice that they go into a investment fund as part of the wallet.

Speaker 2 (28m 58s): Yes, yes, yes. She bought you like physically, you have to pick on it and do it. And where we’re looking at, which is going to be the best option, either crowdfunding or individual projects, or we’re looking to maybe have an investment fund for different sectors. So we’ll have a POM one, the sex type one, a cannabis one, we’ve already got an art club and art queen where people can put money into the art coin, the wallet, it goes out, it buys art, keeps the art secure. When the art goes up, I get sold everyone. Who’s part of that coin within benefits from it.

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): It sounds a lot more secure than porn. If you asked me, I think, I think I’d be much more likely to go for that.

Speaker 2 (29m 38s): Yeah. Yeah. Now we’re looking at different options. So, I mean, on the, on the adult side, it would be, say an investment fund we’re looking at, and which is again, just looking at the right regulations, everything’s safe and secure. Everyone knows what they’re doing, where the fund and people who are in the fund would decide on what projects to invest in.

Speaker 1 (29m 57s): You know, it’s interesting. Cause it was a topic today on expos.net that I was, I was looking at. And I think you more than likely saw it too. And as we record this on October 21st, by the way, we’ll be running it fairly soon as I promised Jason, that would because he’s promoting this now. And the question was why to banks hate us. So I think, I think you’re a great person to ask about this.

Now I know my opinion and I stated it in there. What do you think?

Speaker 2 (30m 33s): Well, funny enough, Bruce, I saw that a small, smaller, yeah. W I’m in the UK. This is my morning. And I’m actually, I was applied to that one as sort of small, new as well. I mean, I’ve had problems with the banks. I’ve had a couple of issues with bank. So one was, I’m not going to name them. I went to my bank many years ago, friends, small overdraft. They said, no, we can’t give it to you because you are. I went, that’s funny because yesterday I was in one of my clients who banks with you, who has a huge overdraft with you and we’re in the same sector.

So can you put that in writing to me and tell me why they went, oh, okay. You can have your overdraft. So then they would be more. I’d also dealt with banks more recently where the local business manager knew what I did was happy with it. And then I received a payment in, from a client for some work I was doing, helping them distribute some products again, all 18 or totally legally in the UK. But because they named the product on the invoice, it got flagged the head office, the head office and looked into it.

And when we don’t use a customer, of course, and gave me three months to get out, you’ve just had not Western UK being caught laundering millions and millions and millions.

Speaker 1 (31m 53s): The biggest crux it’s facing.

Speaker 2 (31m 55s): I owned up against Chris. Yeah. They all fall under this reputational risk. We, you know, always bad for our reputation, laundry, drug money. That’s fine because, oh, that’s not your department. We get slapped on the wrist. We pay fines. And that doesn’t affect our reputation, what it does. And, but people just don’t have much choice to actually who can they move to for that banking services? So yes, we’re coming out as an adult and cannabis friendly service, but I am also going to go after small businesses companies that just want a better service.

Speaker 1 (32m 29s): Yeah. I get it. You know, my answer to that. I don’t know if you saw it was it’s because it’s the way they’ve always done it.

Speaker 2 (32m 38s): They’ve always go, why wait so long? They just think they can carry on and they do.

Speaker 1 (32m 44s): Yeah. Oh. And they will. And in the end it’s not going to hurt them that much. You know? I mean, what you do is compared to them as small, it’s going to be big. I’m sure it’ll be big knowing, knowing how much work you put into it and knowing the solution you’ve got, but you know, they can, you know, the adult industry is small to them.

Speaker 2 (33m 5s): It is. I mean, we, we know that sort of the global adult sector is the numbers, pan it around, go from millions to billions and up and down and, and all that. And if the credit card companies don’t want that, Hey, I will quite happily take $20 billion a year in payments. I don’t have a problem with that.

Speaker 1 (33m 26s): I didn’t think you would. I, how are you able to find a private bank to take this? I’m just, I’m just kinda curious

Speaker 2 (33m 35s): Basically, as part of the, has the technology for the digital wallet, they created their own private bank to this. This is not just being one product. This has been thought out as a huge, huge Masa plan. Should we say that to have the wallet? So it works the way it works and works correctly. It needs to have its own private bank. So everything’s created together. Also, the good thing is because we have our own sort of private bank within the wallet.

We can offer traditional bank accounts to those in the adult sector as well.

Speaker 1 (34m 12s): No. And so you’ll, you can offer traditional bank accounts besides the, the wallet.

Speaker 2 (34m 19s): Yes. Yes. I mean, some companies are going to watch. Yeah. So some companies going to want to transfer their money out to them, into their bank account in some cases signing up, which is not a problem. But what we’re saying is why not want to have the bank that’s actually connected to the wallet. So it makes it even smoother. And again, you’ve got even more security knowing that no, one’s going to be asking you some embarrassing questions every year when they do a audit of your account.

Speaker 1 (34m 46s): Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34m 48s): So we’re, we’re bringing those out as well. So that facility can be, can be offered to those in the industry.

Speaker 1 (34m 56s): So this bank was designed for this type of thing in mind.

Speaker 2 (34m 60s): Yes. Yes. He’s literally, he works hand in hand with a digital wallet. We have to take the money into the wallet and we have the digital version of the, of the money and the digital wallet version of the gold with the digital, but we need to put the money somewhere, so we need to hold it. And so we want it to hold it safely and securely and made sure it wasn’t lent out owned by the bank. The easiest answer was from our partners is we need to have our own bank. So then, then we can secure it. And we know it’s safe.

It’s regulated, it’s secured. Everything will then when we do the quarterly audits, it’s easier because we can literally say, well, it’s on one hand that the banks on the other, when we have the audit in the middle check in a month, checking them both. And then again, delivering that report back to the wallet and it’s in the blockchains for everyone to see.

Speaker 1 (35m 52s): Fantastic. That’s great. So you mentioned, you mentioned investments and crowdfunding. Are there, are there kind of nice little electric storm here, as you could hear? What other end? My, my dog hates that. So he’s now under my desk. So what other byproducts will come out of the digital wallet?

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): Yeah. We’re going to have the loyalty card. Sorry. My mind went blank there for a second. Yeah. So we’re going to look to have a loyalty card for companies to join up so their, their customers can start earning points and then spend them within the wallets. So that’s, that’s something we want to do. You’ve got low FX rates. So for making your payments quick and easy and cheap, it also has built in gift cards. So you can actually, so someone can actually send someone a gift card within the wallet so they can, you know, you want to send a performer, a gift card, you can send her a gift card as a, you know, as a birthday present.

So we’ve got things like that where we already built into the, into it. Cool. The inbuilt marketing. I think that’s huge because the visa MasterCard don’t give you any help and support of where you can send your card, really what you want and sort of say, Hey, it’s just, I think the biggest thing is it’s giving choice. You know, customers can pay you in whatever they have in their wallet. They have showers, they have dollars. I’ve euros. I have Japanese. Yeah. And they have gold. They have platinum, they have gold pre-tenure I have stocks and shares.

If I don’t have enough cash, physical cash, and they want to spend some of their stuff’s in shares, they can transfer over and pay and transfer that into a way to make a payment for you. They want to pay in crypto. It’s a nightmare for customers to take crypto in the UK, in the adult sector at the moment it’s quick and easy.

Speaker 1 (37m 50s): That’s the key in adult. So tell me how to get the

Speaker 2 (37m 53s): Wallet, right? It’s going to be in the app stores. So Google play and apple app stores. So the quickest and easiest way is to go straight to lifestyle.money, where you can find out more about the sites or about the wallet. And there’ll be links there. You click on the links, you’ll take straight to whatever actual you need, and then you quickly download it. You either pick personal or merchant account. Again, some people will have both. So you fill your details in confirm your email address and load your first lot of money in, and you’re ready to go and then complete your KYC.

Speaker 1 (38m 31s): And I’ll add that once we run this, that will be available in those app stores. So well, Hey, Jason, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adults. I broker talk and I’m looking forward to an update once. So we’ve been down the road a little bit with this wallet. Thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give a potential buyer.

How well is your content been protected from piracy? And what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy, takedown or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates? The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be. What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use?

What content management system software is on your site, you use billing or affiliate software like gnats. What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day? Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend to produce or buy the content that’s on your site?

What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your site? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a non-disclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will pre provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don’t know.

Maybe adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours. And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price in any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course, we’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with porn superstar, Nick Manning.

Don’t want to miss that. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Jason Maskell of lifestyle.money. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with attendees from last weeks TES Affiliate Conference in Sitges, Spain.

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We’ve added some enhancements to the site, such as FAQs, and a complete new platform.
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And don’t forget ASB Marketplace, the first platform where you can buy and sell adult sites and domains for FREE!
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And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.
Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale.

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Now time for this week’s interviews. And we’re speaking with Chris algae of fiber fanatics. He’s my first victim here at a T E S. And as we do the a T E S wrap up, Chris, how you doing today? Very good, Bruce. How are you? I can’t complain too much. Well I could, but we won’t start. So anyway, Chris works with fiber fanatics. He’s the head of the UK business unit. That’s a very impressive title, Chris.

So tell me a little bit about fiber fanatics, what you guys do and how you can benefit people in the adult space.

Speaker 2 (3m 33s): Okay, fantastic. So Fibernetics is a company we specialize in complex payment methods. So any industries that really struggle to obtain a stable processing solution is, is where we come into our own light. The, the one thing with all industries is finding a partner that truly wants to work with you and not just provide a solution just for the short term. And that’s where we really come in. I’m here, obviously attending the event along with, with Ori who looks after our IUL business unit.

And we’ve got Janine also who looks after our DACA business unit as well. So we really do spread ourselves out in order to provide the right solution for all of the merchants that we’re working with.

Speaker 1 (4m 21s): Have you attended the ear shows before?

Speaker 2 (4m 24s): No, this is our first event. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And there won’t be many of them here today, but yes. You know, absolutely fresh into this really intrigued to see the different clientele that we’ll meet and, you know, really looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (4m 40s): So it’s your first adult show. Yes. Yes. What’s your initial impression and how does it differ from how you thought it would be?

Speaker 2 (4m 49s): I, I, you know, it’s great to see so many friendly faces. It’s, it’s a very social event I can see, which is, you know, it’s always great to see because I think people interact in their natural environment, you know, certainly after a few beers anywhere.

Speaker 1 (5m 4s): So obviously, there’s a lot of companies in high-risk processing. If I own an adult site and I’m looking for processing, why would I go with you? And not one of your competitors?

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): It’s a really interesting question because, you know, in terms of high risk payments, it’s such a complex marketplace and there are so many people out there trying to penetrate the industry where we know it. Wasn’t an, I, I, after I

Speaker 1 (5m 34s): Thought you’re going to use it, aren’t

Speaker 2 (5m 35s): You I’m jumping on board with that one. No, but in, in relation to why fanatics it’s about stability. And that, that is the key word that we, we pivot around because there’s so many partners and so many PSPS in the marketplace, the, that really don’t take the time to get to know the business and, and really truly get to the bones. And that’s where, you know, we, we want to understand the, we want to understand the detail and you know, it’s about providing that long-term partnership.

Speaker 1 (6m 10s): Okay. In your discussion so far with people in the industry about processing, what have you found out so far that you didn’t expect?

Speaker 2 (6m 22s): What didn’t I expect, I mean, obviously we’re very fresh into the shore, so I’ve not really come across anything that’s standing out at the moment, but certainly what is becoming apparent is, you know, the amount of terminations that they see in the industry and, you know, quite frankly, the, the difficult, you know, the difficulty they face trying to find new solutions.

Speaker 1 (6m 46s): Yeah. I mean, let’s face it. The processing space was difficult before now with the new MasterCard regulations. It’s crazy. How are you guys navigating that?

Speaker 2 (7m 0s): I think in terms of the industry, obviously it varies across the board because it depends on the countries that you’re transacting in, but it’s certainly with the partners that we’re working with. And we have so many different partners that we do work with that we can navigate certain regulations, et cetera, with, with each one individually, independently.

Speaker 1 (7m 24s): I really want to thank you for being my first victim today.

Speaker 2 (7m 28s): Thank you very much for being my first podcast today.

Speaker 1 (7m 32s): I appreciate it. I’m speaking today with Peter, from experts center, Peter, how you doing today hybrid?

Speaker 3 (7m 38s): Thanks for having me here. It’s a pleasure. I’m doing well. The show has been amazing so far. You know, I am very happy that people have finally a chance to interact together. Face-to-face and those restrictions are getting lifted. We’re super excited.

Speaker 1 (7m 50s): It’s about time. It’s great to see everybody. Now you were telling me before off mic that you’d been to TES a while back. And it’s your first time in awhile. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (8m 1s): I was in 2018 and since then we were, we, we wanted to come back, but you know, actually we didn’t have a chance, but we are very happy to be here finally again, and we were looking forward to come to the next show, which will be next.

Speaker 1 (8m 13s): Sure. Sounds good. Now experts center, email marketing one or two. Give me the details of what you guys do.

Speaker 3 (8m 22s): Sure. Of course I’ll be happy to do so. So we basically, as you said, are an email marketing platform. It’s very important to say that we are an affiliate friendly, all vertical friendly email marketing platform. So we basically help publishers to monetize their email lists, which, you know, they, they basically send their offers through. So that’s what we do. We help them to inbox that their newsletters and, you know, ultra responders since 2009. And that’s what we do in.

Speaker 1 (8m 49s): Okay. And you said all verticals friendly, obviously adult friendly, of course, certainly. Okay. What’s your experience been with working with adult companies so far?

Speaker 3 (9m 1s): We actually have many clients working with adult verticals. So our experience has, has been very good, no wonder. So, you know, many of our clients are visiting tests, so we’re very happy that we have a chance to meet them and to, you know, extend this networking, this network of connections even further. So, you know, we just skipping, receiving recommendations here and there. So when, when you were receiving a referral or a recommendation, it means that you’re doing a good job. So that’s what we come across.

Speaker 1 (9m 31s): One of the great things I think about these shows is in the online space, you’re often dealing with people and you never meet them. And I’ve got people vendors that I’ve worked with for years and I’ve never met the cool thing I think about these shows. One of the really cool things about these shows is you finally get to meet and hang out with people.

Speaker 3 (9m 51s): Exactly. That’s, that’s, that’s totally true. And we’re very happy to meet our clients in person and meet, you know, new partners, new stakeholders, face-to-face contact is the best. You know, you can have colon teams or zoom, but at the end of the day, the physical contact with other human beings is what matters the most.

Speaker 1 (10m 9s): I never do another zoom call. It’ll be too soon. Exactly. So, and I asked I’ve, I’ve asked this of all my guests, there are others in your vertical. There are other people doing, you know, email marketing, if I’m choosing. And as I was saying before, I’ve got a solution right now. I’m not a hundred percent happy with, so I would entertain it. Why would I pick expert center over others? Give me all the reasons.

Speaker 3 (10m 38s): Great question for civil. So I’m one of those things. Exactly. One of the things I’ve already mentioned at the beginning, we were friendly and over tickle friendly. This doesn’t happen very often because some verticals are, I don’t want to say re restricted by arts, more risky. And some platforms tend to basically reject those, those, those verticals. We obviously don’t. So that makes us a very flexible in this matter. Secondly, you know, we are, we are providing like a very personalized warm-ups schedules for the IPS that we provide our customers with.

And it’s always like, it’s always is connected to the structure of the database of the client. So let’s say, you know, if you have 20% of Gmail, let’s say, I know it’s impossible, but let’s imagine you because 20% of Gmail, 40% of Hotmail and the other stuff is the rest. Then, you know, we make this warm up schedule, especially grafted for you. So we don’t have any internet.

Speaker 1 (11m 37s): Let me just ask you the question and again, so I’m sorry about that. Sorry. So, so why would somebody choose? Why would somebody choose expert center over another? Oh, let me now it’s okay. Why? Okay. Let’s try this again. 3, 2, 1. Why would choose somebody 3, 2, 1. So some God I can’t talk now.

3, 3, 2, 1. So Peter, there’s a lot of people in your vertical, in the, in the email marketing space. Why would somebody choose experts center over some of your company?

Speaker 3 (12m 23s): Great question. And thanks for asking that, actually. So I mentioned that at the beginning of our, of our podcasts, that we are over tickle or phrase friendly, which means basically that we are willing to accept more, real, much more tolerance and to, you know, verticals which are considered normally in a mainstream as a risky, or I don’t want to say shady, but less, more like of a dark or gray hats. So we were pretty open to that. And this is what makes us stand out. First of all, a second thing is that we provide always like a tailor made tailor, made warmups schedules for the infrastructure of the IPS that we provide to the clients.

So this is super awesome because our clients are th they’re looking to re re to receive an individual support, not just, you know, the regular one, which they get everywhere. So we can fit our infrastructure to their structure of the list, which they willing, which they are willing to monetize. So this is another thing. And the third thing is that we have a dedicated customer support. So every client that’s has expert sender is using experts. Sender is not directed to any kind of a chat bot or kind of like a help desk.

Exactly. So we always have a dedicated account manager, living human being, you know, exactly who is, who is overseeing the metrics, the KPIs crucial for email marketing, you know, clicks, open rates and making sure that delivery rates are always skying up. You know, so this is, this is what we do and what else we have. We are offering something that is not common, which is like an advanced IP management solution. And our clients can decide which, which IPS are going to send specific domain families.

Like for example, one is being warmed up for g-mail specifically second one for Hotmail, for example, or outlook or apple. So this is what, what makes us great. And we also have a dynamic site segmentation. So if you’d like to, if you want to get more deep into your deeper, into, into your list and get better results instead of just, you know, shooting newsletters or, or autoresponders to your list, just like that, you can do segmentation based on their actions. So for example, if somebody was clicking, it means that you can earn more money with that, right, by sending them some relevant communication.

So you can just segment it out and prepare a custom mate, a personalized communication to them. And so this is what our clients are using also, and those segments are totally unlimited. So you can create very complex, very, very complex segments with us and make more money.

Speaker 1 (14m 60s): That’s the bottom line, Peter, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker,

Speaker 3 (15m 4s): Right. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (15m 6s): My pleasure. I’m speaking on adult side, broker talk with Seagal, no relation. And he is with director 24. ETL. Thanks for being with us today, Anna. Don’t say broker talk.

Speaker 4 (15m 22s): Thank you. Thank you for having me very happy to be here, to be at the event and getting to know people

Speaker 1 (15m 28s): As he, you are. And we were talking yesterday, you were one of the younger people here, 24 years old. And it’s your first show? What’s your impression been so far of the,

Speaker 4 (15m 41s): Well, yeah, I think it’s the first thing that strikes me is great. Community-wise everyone’s hugging each other. Everyone knows each other. No, one’s putting a patter face at anyone and people that are complete competitors or sharing the same spaces and with, with a non-competition view of things, hugging each other and just really, really friendly. And everyone just accepting everyone. I came and produced myself. So that was 24. They gave me even less. You can’t see my face, but I look even less.

So, so everyone just laughed and kind of actually congratulated me for it. And instead of looking the other way, so that was something I wasn’t sure how it was going to go. I thought I would have to work even more to get a little bit more respect, but they just, they onboard you for the first minute. And that was really cool from everyone really surprised and happy about that.

Speaker 1 (16m 32s): It’s a very welcoming community and yeah, I, my feeling right away was here’s a young man who carries himself very well, carries himself. Like someone a lot older. What’s not to respect.

Speaker 4 (16m 46s): No. Yeah, for sure. But appearance is even if we like it or not do carry their, their importance. And there’s a lot of industries where you’ll go with a kid face and they’ll just not look at you. Not respect that. You’re not here for 15 years, because there are people that have been here for 20 years. I’m surprised by the amount of people that well. Yeah, exactly. You’ve been here for a lot. A lot of people have been here for 20 years and they’ll listen to me just as much as they listen to them. And I think that’s, that’s really great about the industry.

Speaker 1 (17m 16s): You’re absolutely right. And it’s good to, you’re getting your indoctrination at this great show. T E S a, what do you think of the show?

Speaker 4 (17m 25s): Well, I think I can’t compare, but I think it’s great. They give you pretty much everything that you need. Everything’s well, set up spaces are clear. There’s food, there’s strengths. There’s, there’s everything, really nothing to complain about. And the city’s beautiful. So I hadn’t been here so happy to get to know it too.

Speaker 1 (17m 43s): You have a very interesting background. You told me you spent your first 10 years in New York and you live in Argentina. Yeah. I mean, it’s, that’s quite a, quite an interesting background. It sounds like you’ve already lived a lot of lives for 24.

Speaker 4 (18m 0s): Yeah. I actually, I was born in New York. I lived there until was, I was nine and a half, 10 years old in Manhattan that I did English at school and Spanish in my house. I also learned Hebrew at SKU school. So I had a lot of, a lot of languages from a small age. And when I was 10, I went back to live to Argentina. My family’s from there and then went on full Spanish, got the accent, God kind of like that cultural, cultural clash. That’s very different from a city, completely us like Manhattan is.

And like that has an extreme culture to Argentina, which also has a pretty extreme culture, completely different and tried to kind of get those two things together. I actually lived then later six months in Paris. So I had I speak no French. I tried, but I speak no French, but I got another, a cultural kind of exchange there. And it was really interesting and trying to blend all those cultures into my own, my own personality.

Speaker 1 (19m 1s): That’s that is, that is very interesting Hebrew too, while Shalom

Speaker 4 (19m 5s): Shadow. I haven’t spoken Hebrew in a while, but something comes back every once in a while.

Speaker 1 (19m 11s): The only word I still remember from Hebrew school,

Speaker 4 (19m 15s): I mean all you need because it’s three words actually. So you’re good there.

Speaker 1 (19m 19s): Exactly. So yes, my computer talking to me. So tell us about your company you’re in payments. Tell me more about that.

Speaker 4 (19m 34s): Yeah. So what we offer mostly is payments for developing countries where we’re biggest is in Latin America. But we also work in Southeast Asia, Japan, Africa, Canada, and looking to expand to as many developing countries as possible. We’ve been in the industry for a few years. We’ve been in high-risk for even more. And this year we’re trying to get on all cannons to adult industry. So that’s why I’m here. And I hope to be at all the events I ate the company funds me.

Sounds good.

Speaker 1 (20m 5s): Well, Ezekiel, thank you so much for being with us today on adult site, broker talk and enjoy the show.

Speaker 4 (20m 11s): Thank you very much. I hope so. You too.

Speaker 1 (20m 14s): Thank you. My guest today on adult site broker talk is arena Vasque Colby from love that name from a very Russian very from push ground and they do a, they do push traffic. Eddie NA, thanks for being with us today on the adult side broker talk.

Speaker 5 (20m 33s): Okay. So hi everyone. My name is Adriana from ground. We are selling, buying the push traffic mainly I’m focused on the selling part. So for example, we have the DSP platform where you can, you can create your campaigns and you can run your offers. That’s basically what we’re doing and I’m connecting the best publishers to you specific.

Speaker 1 (20m 57s): Awesome. So, and Aina have you been to the show before?

Speaker 5 (21m 2s): Oh yeah. Actually like I’ve been to all of the shows in general. I’m the confidence stuff. Yeah. So my first task was two years ago in, in . In Portugal. Yeah. Yeah. Then. Yeah. And actually this was my first one, like two years, no, three years ago, almost three years ago, you know? So like it was crazy. So recently I’m going to the all types, all types of the conferences, you know,

Speaker 1 (21m 32s): Isn’t it nice to be back?

Speaker 5 (21m 33s): Oh my God. Yes. Because I was missing it so much. Like, you know, before, like it was almost every month or every two months there were conferences. So we were just going there and now, and now it’s back, you know, like after tasks, we’re going to Dubai. So YouTube. No. Oh, you’re going back home. Yeah. Yeah. Well it’s even better. Yeah. And so this is just awesome.

That’s everything is coming back right now.

Speaker 1 (22m 5s): Exactly. Okay. So what is your impression of tests as opposed to some of the other shows?

Speaker 5 (22m 13s): Well, actually it’s one of my favorite conferences to be honest, because it’s a small but concentrated, you know? So there are no random people who are just going around and they’re like, well, I don’t know what I’m doing or like, I need this or I need that. No, here is specific. I have this, I need this. That’s all. And this is awesome because you’re not like wasting your time, you know? So yeah. So that’s why I like tests to be honest.

Speaker 1 (22m 39s): Tell me about your company and how you compare with some of your competitors.

Speaker 5 (22m 45s): This is a great question because I

Speaker 1 (22m 48s): Know cause I asked it,

Speaker 5 (22m 50s): Thank you. So, okay. Why we are super competitive because in our company and in push ground and the platform itself, we have millions of the features, which you can target. So for example, it’s not only let’s say country and the CT now it’s also languages, the browsers, the devices. So you can actually select each of the model of iPhone or of the Android. I don’t know phones, you know? So it’s like very specific. You can really target a lot, you know, you can be super narrow.

And I think this is the best thing because we have several of the clients who are targeting very, very specifically and it’s working, you know, the best thing that you’re targeting that narrow, but it works, you know, and you’re having like tons of the traffic. This is what I like about our company, you know, because like we can be super

Speaker 1 (23m 45s): Specific and you will get the trust. Perfect. It, ain’t gonna thank you so much for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. Thank you very much. Have a nice day guys. We’re speaking today on adult side, broker talk with an old friend, Nigel from digital world partners. Nigel. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 6 (24m 5s): All right, Bruce. How’s everything long time. No, see my man.

Speaker 1 (24m 8s): It’s been way too long, hasn’t it?

Speaker 6 (24m 10s): Yeah. Yeah. This whole life situation with this pandemic really messed things up for everybody, but good to see. You’re still healthy and kicking around.

Speaker 1 (24m 17s): I’m doing my best at 64 years old.

Speaker 6 (24m 22s): Well, that’s all we could ask for.

Speaker 1 (24m 25s): This is true. So digital world partners, how long has that company

Speaker 6 (24m 29s): We’ve been in business since 2015? You know, I started this, you know, I’ve been in the ad network business for since 2005. So now I decided to, at that time to start my own brokering business and also I specialize in dating and cam traffic. Now I broke her dad. I also am an affiliate for that as well. And I’m now started doing affiliate marketing for lead gen for mainstream stuff. So sweepstakes, financial insurance, you know, even a little bit of a neutral stuff, all white hat type thing on, on a mainstream front.

And yeah, that’s what I’ve been up to for the last few years.

Speaker 1 (25m 4s): So let’s talk a little bit about the whole traffic market. How have things changed in the last few years?

Speaker 6 (25m 11s): Oh, the biggest change came last year, maybe around June where Google put out a, an update that really, really stopped emails going out, you know, and the traditional format of email traffic has been some of the biggest converting traffic for and premium traffic for the dating industry. And now, you know, a lot of the mailers has got their traffic cut like 70% overnight. So that’s a big, big one that’s happening recently.

That’s heard a lot of people now, some of the smarter publishers have pivoted to SMS traffic and I’m killing on the SMS traffic now. And the conversion of that are just so immediately you get addicted to the speed of the conversions of that. It’s like, you can almost, can’t go back to anything else. It’s actually better to what email ever was on the SMS traffic front. So that’s doing pretty good for dating and camps and sweepstakes also actually.

Speaker 1 (26m 5s): So talk about the shows. Now you go to all of them. I think you go to a lot of the affiliate shows. What’s your experience been this year at TES

Speaker 6 (26m 16s): So far? I’m loving it. This is my first time, even though I’ve been in this industry a long time, it’s my first time at

Speaker 1 (26m 21s): This. You’ve never been to TES

Speaker 6 (26m 23s): T switches. This, this city, you know, I was at T S in Prague back in September, which was really nice, you know, you know, it’s kinda like these are the first shows post a big part of the pandemic. So it was like, this has been a lot of fun, you know, it’s been a whole bottle of, Hey, I haven’t seen you in so long, a lot of hugs and whatever, you know, everybody’s just so to have some human con contact nowadays, you know, so that’s been amazing. And I was just really happy to see a lot of people. So it’s been going good. I mean, I’ll definitely come back to this show was my first time here, but I’ll definitely come back to this one.

Speaker 1 (26m 56s): So you’re doing a lot of business.

Speaker 6 (26m 58s): Absolutely, absolutely. With new people and you know what, it’s always doing more business with people that you already know that face-to-face, I mean, I’ve been doing business for about three years with some people and I just met them for the first time at this show and asked her crazy stuff. And it’s always nice to see, you know, and, and one of the things that I’ve noticed is like, you know, every time you do a face to face with somebody face to face is the best followed second by actually doing a call with somebody instead of just typing on Skype or telegram.

Now, anytime I get a, an audio visual or a face-to-face business always goes up with that person, whoever it is, it’s been like clockwork all the time. So these shows are super important for that. You know, you really got to get there, you know, get that face time with people and it’s always good for business.

Speaker 1 (27m 46s): It must be that face of yours, Nigel.

Speaker 6 (27m 51s): Well, I don’t know what to say about that, but you know, me, I’ve been a people person forever. I ain’t shy to talk to anybody. So that’s been me since day one type thing. So I’m happy with that.

Speaker 1 (28m 1s): Yeah. You and I have both been involved in the adult industry for a long time. What are your views on some of the changes and what’s been happening in adult

Speaker 6 (28m 10s): Well and things that are happening with adults. You know, I kind of feel that her, let me put it to you this way, you know, and I take a step back on an annual basis to say, okay, what am I going to do over the next year type thing. And, and I’ve asked this question to a few other people, the same thing that I’m thinking if I want to 10 X my business, what am I going to do? And myself and almost anybody. I asked him, the adult industry, what are you gonna do to 10 X, your business, the answer doesn’t come from adults. The answer always incorporates, you know, diversifying into other verticals and stuff.

So that kind of answers the question. I don’t think we can grow a whole lot more in the adult industry. So diversification is going to be key or just be happy with where you’re at right now type thing.

Speaker 1 (28m 59s): Yeah. It’s like, it’s like us. I mean, we just launched Amazon FBA, broker.com and yeah. And we’ve got, I’m still actually got to re redo it a little bit, but I’ve got an online casino, broker.com. So yeah. Diversification is everything.

Speaker 6 (29m 16s): Yeah, absolutely. You know, myself, like I said, I’m doing the mainstream pure white hat type of offers so I can buy from all the big boys. No, in adult, we’ve always been hampered by not being able to buy a traffic off of Google, Facebook, you know, Taboola, you know, all those big guys there. So now on, on the mainstream side, I want to just take offers and deal with stuff that, that are going to be evergreen. You know, like I don’t have to worry about it getting shut down, you know, that niche or whatever it is. And at some point in time, yeah, there’s a lot of competition cause there’s a lot of people who’ve been there, but it just, the ocean is so big.

You know, there’s, there’s enough for everybody, you know? And if you just, you know, come up with really good angles and be innovative, Hey, you could blow up in the mainstream as well.

Speaker 1 (30m 0s): It’s a bigger ocean,

Speaker 6 (30m 2s): Much bigger Roshan,

Speaker 1 (30m 5s): Nigel. Thanks for being our guests to Dan adult site broker talk. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 6 (30m 9s): Hey Bruce, anytime, man. Thank you. And I love the work you’re doing and all the podcast, you know what you’re doing? That that was some new stuff that you did. And I really like it. You got some good stuff going on.

Speaker 1 (30m 18s): I appreciate that. Well, I’m going to count on you to do a full podcast one of these days, you know

Speaker 6 (30m 22s): What? I’ll get it done. I’ll get it done.

Speaker 1 (30m 24s): All right. I’m going to hold you.

Speaker 6 (30m 26s): Ah, no problem. Let me get some more experience on the mainstream side. I’ll have some good juicy stuff for you at that time.

Speaker 1 (30m 31s): You got it. My friend. Thank you. All right. Take care of man. My guest today, an adult site broker tuck is Paulo for Dino of goad server, which is connected to arrow advertising Paulo. Thanks for being with us today and adult side broker talk. Yeah,

Speaker 7 (30m 48s): That’s right. So go out server. It’s a software to create a white level at network. So it’s allow you not only to create a network, but manage all traffic buying and selling and you can control all the networks who work in one place. So it’s the, it’s a new software and all the people have tried enjoyed it. We are, we are the tree. We have a tree aversion and people try and in general, the double their revenue with it.

So it’s really a powerful software, very technical, but it works very well.

Speaker 1 (31m 29s): So, so obviously you’re using, you know, the, the, the proven infrastructure from arrow advertising, and I’m sure that really helps make it. So the, the platform is reliable.

Speaker 7 (31m 47s): Yeah. The, the original platform and all the technical aspects were bringing from era advertising. But as a side, it’s not only a non-network, it’s much more, it’s really an ad manager can really manage your traffic. So it’s much more powerful it’s based on their advertising, but now there’s 700 trucks already using it. And it it’s really a really powerful tool for people to do advertising.

Speaker 1 (32m 17s): So if tomorrow I want to set up an ad network. All I really need to do is to plug in goat server and I can go, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (32m 28s): You’re just in one day you can, you can have an, a network, you customize your logo and your colors and ever sink, and it’s very easy and you can start selling traffic from many publishers who want, and it’s everything very easy than super.

Speaker 1 (32m 44s): Okay. So let’s get into, let’s say, I want to do this. What’s it going to cost me

Speaker 7 (32m 54s): At the beginning? We have a trial, then you can test for free. And with million of clique, you can make a test and understand the outpour fool, the tool, the tool it is because all people tried it, they kept it because it’s really, really improving your performance. Okay.

Speaker 1 (33m 13s): So is the, is the cost based upon a flat amount or is it based upon how much traffic runs through it?

Speaker 7 (33m 23s): It’s a, it’s a plan based, based on the amount of traffic, then it’s a software company. Then it’s a plan based on the volume of the traffic you have so that you can start small and go big. So you don’t have to, to risk ever sink. And even after a trail, you’re not going to start paying like a lot or you’re going to grow as you need. And as the traffic then you have done. So it’s good.

Speaker 1 (33m 49s): Hello. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk cobras. Thank you. My guest today and adult side broker talk is Raso from gaming adult. Raso really nice to see you here and welcome to adult side pro

Speaker 8 (34m 3s): Thank you for the opportunity and always good to see you.

Speaker 1 (34m 7s): It’s always good to see you as well and spend way too long. So gaming adult is a very, very unique company. There’s really nothing else like it in adult, but for those who don’t know you, why don’t to explain what you guys do? We make

Speaker 8 (34m 25s): Video games. We simply make video games, which is simple and complex at the same time at 200,000 players every day that are playing our games. The antiheroes is the, our top game. It’s an adventure game RPG with collectibles. Let’s say it’s like some hint tie with Pokemon into the, I know it’s been close to seven years that we have this game out in still running wild. And this, our expertise is really into transforming pig cells, into love and making players love pixels and spend money for it.

And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a crazy thing to have people spending money for just, just pixels. So just the dream do experience nothing that is tangible and nothing that they can exchange. The thing that they can sell, just pleasure, entertainment and fun. And th th that’s the challenge. And it’s awesome.

Speaker 1 (35m 24s): Yeah. I mean the whole phenomenon of adult gaming, it’s always been a little bit curious to me because, well, shit, I’m not a porn consumer. Let’s just put it that way. I live Thailand who needs porn. Right? But at the same time, it’s always been a little curious to me, gaming hand tie, things like that. I mean, I, I, I’ve never completely gotten it.

Speaker 8 (35m 52s): That, that, that that’s, that’s the beauty of it. I think this is why we are the only ones to do it. And obviously the number one, because we are the only one, it just is, it’s bizarre. It’s a niche, but it’s a niche that is well, hundreds of billion. If you talk about the gaming industry, it’s 200 billion. I grew up with gaming. I started playing games at the age of five. I’m 40. And I started watching anime and manga the age of five I’m 14. So it’s like 35 years of experience in this bizarre niche culture. And yeah, I’m into porn also, but that not, not from the age of five.

Okay. More like the age of 12 whatever. So yeah, I grew up with this idea that my dream job was to be working in the video game industry or the porn industry. And we made a mixture of bone and gaming and anime, which are like, like dream kit, patient all into one. Yeah. That, that, I think at the end, we are just scratching our inch on each, making the games that we’ve always been dreaming of, of making and players feel it because it comes from a point of passion, but yeah, you need to be part of the culture to get it.

And that’s also why some people, you know, they try to do something that is like what we do, but they come from a place where they don’t actually get it. So you feel it like the game is just a fake, it’s just, it’s just, you don’t have the authenticity and you don’t have the depth that you have from, I mean, it’s a passion game that is also made with like real money mechanics. It’s passion, but it’s also business. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 35s): Yeah. You know, one thing I always tell people, they asked me, well, what niche should I get into? And what I tell them is it’s real simple. Do what you like.

Speaker 8 (37m 47s): Yeah. I mean, at least something you, something that you like is something that you will understand, but okay. Do some things that you like in a market that is big enough, because then mean, if you, if you’re really passionate about tickle and an underground luxury, maybe the market will be too small and you can’t make a living out of it. But if you’re passionate about something, that’s, there’s an economic drive and there’s a chance that you can actually like be one of the best in the world at this thing.

A I’m push for it, go for it. There’s a market there.

Speaker 1 (38m 22s): Yeah. You and I both sponsor these shows and thank goodness they’re back. Why do you year after year come and sponsor the shows here and in Prague

Speaker 8 (38m 38s): Home. It’s a very good question because we ended up not doing much business in, because video games in a adult industries like alien, we are, we are always very alternative, but there’s different concept. First of all, I want to be part of the ecosystem and I want to participate in it. And I want to see develop the market, develop awareness of what we do so that people get to know it. And little by little people, she has coming back growing, developing stuff.

And there are people that like, yeah, I saw you three years ago. I wanted to do something with you, but I didn’t know. Maybe now is the time. And maybe now is the time and little by little, we are growing our business influence and contacts. So that’s one of the reasons, second reason maybe, maybe that is actually the first is that I, I get a lot of energy out of the shows. I’m a social person. And I get a lot of, like I had noticed. Yeah. But I know you’re the same.

And a lot of the people here are the same. We like people. We like to meet people. You meet someone, you talk about the experience. You talk, you you’re, you’re just bouncing ideas. You get the feedback, you get the feeling, you see what’s in the industry. You see what sound you’re, you’re just also, you know, absorbing these ideas, these energies, and you get the trends. And you’re like, oh, I’ve earned that. Maybe the industry could go that way because that, that person is doing that. And that you cannot get all of this through blogs and the internet. You can, you can read message boards like GFI and get some trends or XBS and whatever.

But when you’re in the show is like, like, like a deep concentrate of all these things, all these energies, all these I L D someone thinks that I think that I want this. I have a NA I have an ID. and it goes fast. We get together. We exchange, we, we, we are showing an idea and boom,

Speaker 1 (40m 36s): You know, you just gave me a demo over there at your booth. And what you’re doing these to my opinion is probably the most exciting thing I’ve seen in adult gaming. Why don’t you talk about it a little bit?

Speaker 8 (40m 52s): Thank you very much. I came in really, exactly for this idea of pitching this idea and see how people react, because I’ve been in different businesses and I’ve been pitching ideas that people ated, like you show, we are deserved platform for social fall for poker players. It was social platform and I’ve been pitching it for three years. And every time I was pitching it, people are like, yeah, very interesting. Ha. And, and, you know, you’re pitching this product and you’re like, oh, I believe in it.

I believe it. But nobody believes in it. And we could the, from the start that there was no traction when I pitched antiheroes, when I was back in the, in the other business, after the gambling immediately, people are like, oh yeah. Oh yeah, that’s interesting. That’s bizarre. That’s different. I want to try it. And just the fact that people were open minded and they were just wanting to try it. It was a huge change from years of pitching things that nobody can, we are the mainstream public publishing house for comic books.

And it has been such a struggle. You know, you, you go to two shows and you try to sell your books and you sell 12. And you’ve been traveling Europe and spending such a thousand euros and you just lose everything. And it’s it’s, it was just horrible. So I’m here to now present a new product that finally, I think I’ve been really brainstorming on this idea. I don’t want to be an alien in emo in the shows. I want to present something that can be a synergy and to be just connecting directly to the camps, the mothers, the pond, and not to be something that is just too different.

And now the new game is going to be called is doing to you make your Harambe of bond stars. Thank you. The name. And it’s going to really connect directly in many ways in synergy with the mothers, because it’s made in a way that it’s going to be a mixture between a honey fan and a video game. And so the mothers are going to be able to be directly in the game and they’re going to be what we are going to be able to white label the game for each bond star, each model. And they’re going to be inside of the game, or they’re going to be talking to the player is a fun experience.

We just, we just want to drive the players crazy.

Speaker 1 (43m 1s): Yes. I love it. Well, we’ll talk more when we, when we do a full interview, Raso, it’s a pleasure to have you today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 8 (43m 11s): Thank you for the talk. Thank you for the opportunity. And thank you for being here. Always a pleasure, Bruce

Speaker 1 (43m 15s): Pleasure is mine. My guest today on adult site, broker talk is Zuzanna from Terry TV. So Zana, thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

Speaker 9 (43m 25s): Bruce. Thanks for having me. Thanks for stopping me for this one. I know you wanted to get me for a longer time to do the podcasts. Now it’s a great situation to do so.

Speaker 1 (43m 38s): Absolutely. Absolutely. And we’ve known each other a long time now through some of your, your other lives. And now you’re with cherry TV. Tell us about cherry TV. What’s special about it. What makes it great? There’s a lot of cam platforms out there. So tell us what makes cherry TV better?

Speaker 9 (43m 57s): Yeah. So cherry TV is a new live streaming platform. We are alive basically. Now for eight months, we already gathered two awards for the best emerging platform and best emerging company. Just two months after the launch, which is great. Yeah. So what we are special ed? Well, half of our team I would say is from gaming industry, from the actual gaming industry.

So we have a lots of like gamification in our platform. We have special leveling system, like a little thing, switch. We want models to like, to be more entertained using our platform. Yeah. And we also target millennials and generation Z. And what models say they really like the, like the, the clean interface. They have easy time to use the platform basically.

So they enjoy it. So, yeah. That’s cherry TV in a nutshell.

Speaker 1 (45m 7s): So, so yeah, I mean let’s face it, millennials play games a lot. So it would just make sense that if you, if you integrate games into a cam platform, you’re going to get some younger viewers, right?

Speaker 9 (45m 20s): Yeah. Well, we have, like, the models can play games. There, there are not like actual games in the platform, but there are little like paradox, which we took from the gaming industry, which I can not read it. Like, say everything, but let’s say like, you are sending the, the girls like cherries and you are tipping with cherries and we have this actual gifts action and the animation gifts. So you are tipping the girls and you send some cherries, some bananas some days, some days, and you will level your screen.

We’ll like hop out, like all you leveled to level free for you though. It’s like a little, little things, which makes it the more excited for not only models for users as well

Speaker 1 (46m 11s): To these things when they’re playing games and they feel comfortable with cherry TV.

Speaker 9 (46m 17s): Right. Right.

Speaker 1 (46m 19s): So you’ve been in this industry for a long time. You’ve been with a lot of companies. How is it working at cherry TV?

Speaker 9 (46m 29s): Yeah, it’s fantastic. You know, I started, I feel like I’ve been here for, for decades. Like I started in adult 2006. As a model later, I had my own website. I had my own production company. I would go to all the conferences, not only with the fence conferences like B2C, but then I started to enter like to B B2B conferences like this one, like this brag, the sieges. And that’s how I started to meet all these incredible people.

And then I later I was affiliate manager for a dating company, which was exciting routes. I had to travel a lot for all these conferences, also mainstream ones, which was so great. So great. And now I’m back to my roots. I would say back to like the real adult company, which, and I can take care of models basically. So it’s, it’s very, very interesting for me. I have a lot of responsibility and I feel like I like the feeling like I can take care of them.

I can help them. I can be a little bit like they’re a mom, you know, for them, they can come to me to cry about something went wrong or something is not okay in their life, in the platform, whatever problem they have, they can come to me. So, so yeah, this journey in the adult industry, for me, it’s nice now, very, very exciting. And cherry TV is a, the company feels like a new family for me.

You know, I, I now like everyone might say this, but I am so excited. Like, like for this team, everyone is super skilled. We have like experts, like from, as I mentioned from the gaming industry, you have SEO experts. We have, our designer is for, from gaming industry, Soviet gaming games designer actually like designing the, our, like the whole platform. Yeah.

And anything we do new, like some Evans on the platform. We have a new gifts, action gifts, an animated gifts for the models. Like you have to see this very hard to explain it like this, but yeah. Come to see like tip the girls and to send them like a private jet or motorbikes, some chairs throw some cherries on them. Yeah. Cherry TVs, just amazing thing.

Speaker 1 (49m 8s): Yeah. As a former performer, how it must be really nice to be able to work with performers. There

Speaker 9 (49m 16s): It is. It is actually I’m setting up like a lot of porn star shows on the platform because of all my connections. So with the, I started with the little capris, which is also my good friend, and now we have some American stars. I’m trying to get some Japanese because I have context there as well, German and yeah, this part of, of my job is, is super cool. I really enjoyed it and want to do something more like special for the girls.

So we always put some PR for them in the, this famous magazines, XB, Sabian, beacons, I know chase. So yeah, I enjoyed this and I’m also taking care of our socials social media. So I’m always pushing, like for everything to fit together. If we have cool girls, cool porn star shows, I make sure they are advertised properly on our platforms and the PRS, which I mentioned.

And also some other forums which are around like, it’s, this is super exciting. Like you can think different possibilities and opportunities with this kind of job.

Speaker 1 (50m 34s): That’s awesome. Well, my friend really nice to see you again and thanks for being my guest today on adult side. Broker talk.

Speaker 9 (50m 42s): Thank you very much, Bruce. Thank you for having me. Love you.

Speaker 1 (50m 46s): Thank you. My guest today, an adult site broker talk is an old friend keys from tube uploads keys. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk.

Speaker 10 (50m 57s): Thank you, Bruce Lesher. Do we interview,

Speaker 1 (51m 1s): It’s my pleasure. Now keys, tell the people more about tube uploads. I think the name kind of speaks for itself, but why would somebody come to your company to upload to tubes?

Speaker 10 (51m 16s): Well, we are offering services for pay site owners to upload the content to tube sites. We have experienced with this since 2005 and since 12 years uploading as affiliates to pay sets our shelves. And since a few years, we also opened up for patient owners who can make use of our in-house developed software.

So we know as affiliates what is needed. And so our product is works perfectly because of that, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (51m 59s): So, so let’s say that I have a pay site and I want to get my content uploaded a tubes to promote my site. Why should I hire you as opposed to doing it myself? Well,

Speaker 10 (52m 13s): By making use of our software, you can upload to a melted Choate of tube sites. You can schedule your videos. You can also make separate descriptions for each tube site, and you can also schedule in advance. So you can have a better 60 or 100 videos. And you can say, well, I want to have an upload once every day or once every two days, furthermore, you can check if each upload has been successful because we have screenshots, we have very detailed reports and also very important.

We listen to our clients because that is the way to improve our software. So if clients miss a certain feature, then we can always edit.

Speaker 1 (53m 0s): That’s awesome. So what are some of the more detailed features that people like about tuba?

Speaker 10 (53m 10s): Well, for instance, as you already mentioned, a digit can have separate descriptions for each tube sites, also specific tax. You also have shortcuts that if you ship one techs, for example, babe, then it can be immediately be edit a babe check, teen, whatever. So you can have a show called shortcuts, things like that.

Speaker 1 (53m 41s): What about watermarking? Or is there any, are there any features in there for watermarking?

Speaker 10 (53m 47s): Well, we also have another feature and that is, we can also edit the videos for our clients that is software based. So it is not done manually. Right. But still it’s looks quite good. And yeah.

Speaker 1 (54m 9s): How’s the show been for you? You’re you’re at every TES. We’ve been seeing each other at these things for years dating back to the early Prague shows. How was the show for you?

Speaker 10 (54m 21s): It went surprisingly well. And so I’m so happy that we are back in business after two years. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54m 29s): Nice to see everybody. Isn’t it.

Speaker 10 (54m 30s): Absolutely nice to see you as well. I miss you in prac in September.

Speaker 1 (54m 36s): I missed me too. The Thai government kind of screwed me over. So it unfold. I wasn’t going to do another 15 day quarantine that’s for damn sure.

Speaker 10 (54m 45s): I can imagine. And that is what also one of the reasons I didn’t attend the Vegas show because it didn’t want to get to Vivus but I will definitely visited again. Attended again next year.

Speaker 1 (55m 1s): Yeah. We can plan next year and having a nice steak dinner in Vegas. How does that sound?

Speaker 10 (55m 6s): Sounds wonderful.

Speaker 1 (55m 7s): Okay. My friend, thanks for being my guest today on adult side broker tuck case. You’re

Speaker 10 (55m 11s): Very welcome. And to thank you

Speaker 1 (55m 13s): My guest today at long, last on the adult side, broker talk is Buster brown of come shoot me and why not shoot me Buster, my friend. How are you?

Speaker 11 (55m 26s): Good. It’s good to be

Speaker 1 (55m 26s): Back, man. It’s good to be anywhere.

Speaker 11 (55m 30s): I agree with you. It’s all good.

Speaker 1 (55m 32s): So let’s talk about the most important subject. The Mets, how

Speaker 11 (55m 35s): The Mets, hopefully they’re going to make it this year. I mean, every year it looks promising and then they fall short. But I think what a good manager, you know, I think we have a good shot. Good players, Cy young award guys. I think

Speaker 1 (55m 48s): It’ll be fun. I’m glad you took Scherzer away from the Dodgers,

Speaker 11 (55m 53s): The Wolf ponds. Weren’t going to pay for him. They always go on for like AAA guys. So

Speaker 1 (55m 58s): Exactly. So for those who don’t know and anyone who doesn’t know, I don’t know where you’ve been. Buster’s has been shooting these shows for a long time and he is a, as I like to call him the show photographer to the stars. And he’s the guy that shoots the food before you get a chance to eat it. He walks around and takes pictures of people doing everything. He particularly likes to take pictures of naked women. That’s his favorite thing, but he also shoots barmitzvahs at home.

So how’s the show been business wise for you so far?

Speaker 11 (56m 36s): Not to show business wise has been really good. There’s a lot of new faces. There’s a lot of new companies. It’s good to be out. Like I said, Andreas and Walter do an excellent show. I always feel, you know, welcome. You know, all the people are really nice and it’s easy to, you know, to get along with them, to talk to them. Of course we would have liked a few more parties, but I really liked that they filled up the place and they promoting and they’re promoting the next shows and we need to have more shows and we need to go out more.


Speaker 1 (57m 6s): You are correct. And I’m pretty sure, just like me. This was your first show in a couple of years.

Speaker 11 (57m 12s): Well, this is my show for a show in Europe. I’ve actually shot exotica and ex-business and AVN stuff, internet. So I’ve been still shooting for the last year. All different kinds of conventions, but the Europe shows I didn’t make it to because obviously would flying and the mandates. So, you know, like I said, hopefully from here on, it’s going to be a straight, you know, straight clouds or whatever.

Speaker 1 (57m 37s): How nice is it to see everybody?

Speaker 11 (57m 40s): Oh, it’s great. It really is great. Cause I mean, this pandemic doesn’t even feel like two years. It feels really like, I haven’t seen people like in 10, 20 years, like high school. So, you know, it’s good to be back.

Speaker 1 (57m 51s): It’s always like a family reunion, especially now.

Speaker 11 (57m 55s): I agree with you. And again, all the shows here are supporting the other shows and that’s, that’s really what this is about too. Like I said, we’re all at the end, a big family. So,

Speaker 1 (58m 5s): So let’s talk a little bit about what you do and what you’re looking for. I know that, you know, to make it possible for you to come out, you know, you need sponsors and look, it’s a, it’s definitely a service to people to have the pictures from here.

Speaker 11 (58m 26s): Yeah. I mean photography, even before the pandemic, I mean, I grew up in my dad’s business, which is mainstream. My father probably would have liked to do adult, but you know, I took those reins, but again, it’s, it’s even in the mainstream world or the adult world, it’s still hard with photography. I take pictures all the time. And the worst scenario is somebody that doesn’t know me to have seen me with their phone and wants me to do a phone shot. And usually I tell them nicely that I don’t know how to use their phone. And then one day get the pictures I go, these pictures are great.

How do I take your watermark off? So from the get-go in the adult industry, as Bruce mentioned, I’ve the best scenario for me is to get one good sponsor. And I watermark their name company frantic in the photos. I can also be a shirt branded and I can also put banners on my site. So this way, you know, once I get to a show, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t have to like nickel and dime anybody for a flight. It’s all on me. It’s all included. And everybody shares all the photos and doesn’t have to buy anything.

So that way my name gets out. The company that sponsored me named gets out and you can look at the great photos and you see everything that was documented here. And a lot of people always tell me, I would’ve loved to go to the show. And then when they look at my photos, they don’t miss the next show either.

Speaker 1 (59m 48s): Yeah. You’re, you’re out. You’re absolutely doing the service also for the show promoters. So when someone comes to come shoot me.com at C O M E not the way you’d expect it to be spelled,

Speaker 11 (1h 0m 2s): I still own it. And with the, you, I still have to develop that

Speaker 1 (1h 0m 5s): Damn right to do so when somebody comes to come shoot me.com, what are they going to find? Well,

Speaker 11 (1h 0m 11s): You’re going to find pretty much a PG shots. I mean, I don’t really go hardcore it’s because a lot of these shows sometimes tap into like the affiliate shows. So they cross over. So there’s no, like, you know, that’s the other thing, somebody people worry like, oh my God, am I going to be on some hardcore site? It’s just a conservative show side. I mean, yes, you will see some nipples, but yeah, but you know, again, there’s no full frontal or, you know, penetration shots.

So nobody has to worry, but I pretty much get, get the heart of the show, the parties, the models, the, you know, everything that’s going on in the show

Speaker 1 (1h 0m 51s): Buster. I’d like to thank you for being my guest today on adult site, broker talk,

Speaker 11 (1h 0m 56s): I noticed it was way overdue, but thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (1h 0m 59s): It’s a pleasure. And a, you will do a full segment soon. Hope to you notice I didn’t, I didn’t ask you.

Speaker 11 (1h 1m 7s): Yes, no, I, like I said, Bruce, I’m not hiding from you. I was happy to come on the show.

Speaker 1 (1h 1m 11s): Yeah, bullshit. You’re not my guest today. And adult side broker talk is Valerea from addict stream. Let me spell that. A D E X, T R E M hold E. All right, Valerie. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk.

Speaker 12 (1h 1m 27s): Hello. Thank you two.

Speaker 1 (1h 1m 29s): So how are you enjoying the show? It’s the final day and hopefully you’ve gotten a lot done.

Speaker 12 (1h 1m 38s): Oh, it’s a really busy days, but I really liked the show it’s so far so good. And it’s my first test. I really enjoy it for the first time. It was, I was really tired. I came from Ukraine on a Wednesday and immediately went to the show and they, a lot of people, it was a really, really mass,

Speaker 1 (1h 2m 3s): I think next time you’ll probably give yourself a little more time. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It’s always, always good to deal with the jet lag if you’re coming from a distance, I come from Thailand. So it’s yeah, it’s, it’s definitely important to get here early. So I assume you’ve to other events besides tests,

Speaker 12 (1h 2m 22s): I’ve been to New York affiliate summit west on a 2019 and, and key. I don’t remember the name of the conference, but here, there are not so many people that it was in New York, one Kia. So it’s cause you show, I think

Speaker 1 (1h 2m 42s): So it being a cozy show. How does that impact your business? Do, do you like that better?

Speaker 12 (1h 2m 50s): Yes, it’s okay. I have a lot of friends here and I have a lot of cards and that’s really, really cool people here.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 2s): Yeah. I like the way you did the business card. You, I was able to scan it and it goes right by the QR code and it went right into my, my apple contacts. That’s pretty convenient.

Speaker 12 (1h 3m 15s): She’s a heads because my boss, he forgot to make me a credit card, visa card, business card. That’s why I use this a virtual card, but it’s really cool.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 30s): So how do you compare this show to other shows? Besides it being cozier?

Speaker 12 (1h 3m 40s): There are a lot of adult business and I have never been there before and it’s something new for me, but it’s really cool here because we have, I think a lot of fresh year and not, not so many people, not so loud. So it’s really a nice to be here.

Speaker 1 (1h 4m 4s): Yeah. Because if you’re packed in these days, it gets to be a little bit nervous with COVID.

Speaker 12 (1h 4m 10s): Yeah. It’s we here live in a troubled time, I think, but a pioneer to be out here and enjoying the show.

Speaker 1 (1h 4m 19s): So I’m asking everybody this question. So if I’m in the market for an ad network, why would I choose that extreme?

Speaker 12 (1h 4m 28s): We have a really good traffic traffic sources. We have our own websites. We work with all the geos, mainly tier one from France. A us UK are the strongest. We work on CPC and CPM basis. Like we have push notifications, emails, native traffic, banner, so on. So we work BI able to work on prepayments so we can prepare companies to other partners.

It’s really easier to work this way without net terms, et cetera. So, yeah. And we are cool. Some people, such companies like clique dealer who are insured the party yesterday, they told us that our sources are one of the best. So it’s, it’s not like I say the true,

Speaker 1 (1h 5m 29s): So it’s so it’s nice to hear that from a competitor. Isn’t it

Speaker 12 (1h 5m 33s): Really nice. And they are from Ukraine too. So be like, you know, like friends send to this really a nice

Speaker 1 (1h 5m 45s): Galleria. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker, talk

Speaker 12 (1h 5m 50s): To you. Thank you. My

Speaker 1 (1h 5m 51s): Pleasure. My guests today on adult site, broker tuck, or J Kupita or why not? And Andy warmer from traffic partner, gentlemen, thanks for being with us today. And adult site broker talk.

Speaker 13 (1h 6m 5s): Yeah. When it come to the Ts and teachers make some noise.

Speaker 14 (1h 6m 11s): Hi.

Speaker 1 (1h 6m 12s): Yeah, chase. Jay’s a little under the weather today on the last day of the show. I think he partied a little Hardy last night. Actually. I didn’t tell.

Speaker 14 (1h 6m 19s): I don’t really do that shit anymore. Yeah. I think I ate some bad food. To be honest with you. I love coming to this place because I love seeing all the friends and everybody, and I get a lot of business here, but I usually drop about five kilos because I’m sorry, the food is not good.

Speaker 1 (1h 6m 32s): Goodyear. Seriously. I gained five kilos, but I gained five kilos by looking at food.

Speaker 14 (1h 6m 39s): Well, you got mine then.

Speaker 1 (1h 6m 41s): So, so Andy, how’s the show been for you so far?

Speaker 13 (1h 6m 46s): It’s like a meeting of old friends after the Corona Bragg. We have here people from over 50 countries. It’s nice. Only of course right now with the situation of Ukraine, a lot of our friends here trap. So the business is good, but the mood was better before Corona for sure.

Speaker 1 (1h 7m 4s): And it was better before Russia invaded. Yes. Sure.

Speaker 13 (1h 7m 8s): But you know, we had a strong school community. We have, we offered a lot of people was to, they got offered from Europeans, from Spain, from Germany that they can stay them, the houses I offered my apartment in Gran Canaria too. So yeah. Let’s have as much as we can do. Right.

Speaker 1 (1h 7m 23s): Absolutely. So, so Jay, you guys have a really exciting event coming up in April. Why don’t you tell everybody about it?

Speaker 14 (1h 7m 33s): Yeah. The Phoenix forum went on for 20 years and it was a CC bill show and it was one of the best in the United States. Great time of year. Great weather really turned out to be a very huge show over the years. And unfortunately they had their last one in 2019, essentially Connor and I at why not wanted to do sort of a revival of the show. I mean, we’re not calling it the Phoenix forum. We’re not duplicating the Phoenix forum. Instead this year, we’re going to call it the why not reunion. It’s April 8th, ninth, and 10th. We are having it at the Tempe mission palms, but there’s going to be a focus exclusively on networking friendships and just hanging out and doing fun things together.

No booths, no seminars, no anything like that this first year out, essentially, you just kind of want to create the atmosphere that people have been missing these last years and then see where it goes with it. And we went to CC bill first to make sure that they were happy with it. And not only were they happy with us doing this, they also were our first sponsor. And I also want to thank adult’s site broker for as well as sponsoring. So we’re almost where we need to be. And right now we just, if people are coming, we need them to register as soon as possible. So we can get some numbers. Cause it’s not easy guessing these things.

Speaker 1 (1h 8m 36s): Yeah. You were telling me that a lot of people like to register it the last or just show up register at the last minute or just show up. And for this event, it’s going to be pretty tight.

Speaker 14 (1h 8m 46s): Yeah. It’s going to be pretty tight. I mean, we’ve got several events that we’re doing. We’re probably going to have like a charity poker tournament. We’re going to be doing a top golf, probably a dinner here, a cocktail party. There we’ll even do some muck carting as well. But you know, obviously in order to put these events on and prepare them, I have to have numbers and anybody who’s ever planned events before or parties or anything knows what goes into it. And you know, the things that are at risk. So I just asked, you know, for everyone in order to make this a successful event and trust me, a lot of people want this to happen and they want it to work.

We just ask for cooperation. That’s all,

Speaker 1 (1h 9m 19s): This is not a group of planners, Jay, a

Speaker 14 (1h 9m 22s): Group of what? Planters? Planters. Oh, planners. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it’s a, it is what it is, but you know what I mean? We’re not doing it for fame or fortune or anything like that, you know, Connor and I genuinely love this industry and we just basically want to, we just want to have fun. And I mean, yeah, this has the potential to be something really huge. And if it doesn’t then, well, we tried.

Speaker 1 (1h 9m 44s): Exactly. So, so Andy, what’s been happening lately with traffic partner. Tell us, tell us some news.

Speaker 13 (1h 9m 54s): Well, we are always growing. We get more geos mugging, a lot of products. We are going more in the cam industry, making life create a new product that we have in Germany. For like 15 years, we bring in more international than we have camp cash daily, our product. So there’s a lot of things going on. We are going more from dating to cam more countries and the shows are back. So and so for Phoenix forum, I love Phoenix forum, of course, for Europeans as a long travel.

There’s no doubt that Lufthansa don’t have the one mind at 1 million miles a award like Brad guts. I need to fly perhaps more data, no way. It’s a budget. Like you say, right now, the planning, you know, with Corona and all of these shit, it’s more difficult. And it’s crazy if you see my captain’s business lounge and there’s like 25 events only in this year coming up. So from Moscow to Barcelona, Dubai, Cyprus, Phoenix, LA, Miami.

So man, even I’m as a captain, I like to travel about way too much these year. You

Speaker 1 (1h 11m 5s): Can’t be everywhere.

Speaker 13 (1h 11m 6s): Yeah, that’s right. I need beat me up Scotty ferment from star Trek and then it would be super nice.

Speaker 1 (1h 11m 13s): Yeah. We’re going to work on that, Andy. Perfect.

Speaker 13 (1h 11m 16s): So check it out, come with the captain. We fly with the stock.

Speaker 1 (1h 11m 20s): So, so Jay, how is T E S been for you?

Speaker 14 (1h 11m 24s): Well, it’s been a great show. Every time I come to a TES, I leave with more business than it costs me to attend the show. So I’m always happy to make profit on coming to these things. You know, this has been a great show for me. It’s the first one I’ve been to in Barcelona since I think 2017 was the last time that I was here. They went to Lisbon for awhile. So it’s really nice to be back here. Yeah. But like Andy was saying a minute ago, the frustrating and sad part of, you know, the show is just, you just feel just the overall just sadness, anger, rage, everything, you know, from going on with, with what’s happening in Ukraine.

So yeah, that’s, that’s really unfortunate, but I mean, you know, you just, you feel the love, you feel the strength and you feel, you know, that people want to actually do something about this. You know, all of a sudden add that William SARS and CK and little red bunny are, you know, putting together like GoFund me’s and as well, I know that I’m live is putting together something major. I think they’re going to be housing like 40 people and taking care of them for like a month, their meals, their transportation, their rooms. So, yeah. And the fact that Andy said that, you know, people are offering their houses and stuff like that.

I mean, you’re not going to find, well, I mean, maybe you will, but it’s very hard to find a tighter knit family. Then, you know, we are in this business with people looking out for each other.

Speaker 1 (1h 12m 40s): This is a family. And I feel like every show is a family reunion, especially this one for me, it’s been two years since I’ve been to an event. I think it’s the same for you. No. Well you had LA I think, but oh, you did do Prague. Okay. But still, I mean, I mean, it’s just amazing to see everybody.

Speaker 14 (1h 13m 0s): Yeah. I mean, you know, like as far as like a family member, I’m kind of a cross between the red-headed bastard stepchild and the uncle, the bad uncle. So, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s my role

Speaker 13 (1h 13m 15s): Or Krusty the clown

Speaker 14 (1h 13m 18s): Or Mr. Clean

Speaker 1 (1h 13m 20s): Can, I can see a little bit of that and UJ every, every little bit of that.

Speaker 14 (1h 13m 25s): Yeah. My feet aren’t as big though. That’s

Speaker 1 (1h 13m 27s): So, okay. One more thing I gotta ask you about, we talked about it on the full podcast, the hair. Yep.

Speaker 14 (1h 13m 34s): Yep. I’ve got hair.

Speaker 1 (1h 13m 37s): You have a lot of hair.

Speaker 14 (1h 13m 39s): I mean, you know, what can I say when, when COVID started in 2020, I didn’t get a haircut. And then, you know, I waited a few months obviously, and, and I’m like, okay, you know what? Let’s just do this. I still have most of it. So why the hell not? So it’s been two years now and I’ve just had a couple of trims here and there and it’s, I dunno, kind of becoming my trademark. I mean, people remember me anyway. I mean, not to brag, but I tend to, I tend to leave an impression wherever I go, but now I really leave an impression. And that’s the thing that I always tell people in the industry anyway, that, you know, it’s good to be known and liked in everything, but you need to leave a memorable impression everywhere you go.

It’s just, not only is it good for your brand, but it’s just good for your business. I mean, there’s nothing worse than meeting someone two or three times and you know, they don’t remember you. I mean, that doesn’t happen to me thankfully, but you know, it’s just important to stay ahead of the fray. So

Speaker 1 (1h 14m 27s): I think you, two are two of the best branders in this industry, Andy, you with your, your captain moniker and your videos and UJ with everything you do and your personality, it’s so important to, to have that personality, isn’t it

Speaker 13 (1h 14m 45s): Sure it’s like any employee of the company is the brand ambassador office company. And of course it’s something also you have the character or the style of it or not. And we need all these developers and we need people in the background. We are working always in the crew, but like JME, we have the guys in the front, we go to the shows, we make the noise, we have brand ambassadors and everybody of us have as unique style. I do this with the captain outfits on parties and then the parties make some fucking noise and bringing all the pussy juice, drinks and stuff and yeah, Jay, half his style and his higher car differently.

It makes them different looking. So yeah, brand numbers, the door opens doors. And then if your product is good, you will be successful.

Speaker 1 (1h 15m 34s): Exactly. Andy, thanks for being with us today. Thank

Speaker 13 (1h 15m 37s): You, Bruce. See you soon in Bangkok.

Speaker 1 (1h 15m 40s): Thank you, Jay. Thank you for having me as well. Thank you guys, my guest today, and I’m very pleased to have him is the co-organizer of T S and dress and drain us. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 15 (1h 15m 54s): Thank you very much for having us again.

Speaker 1 (1h 15m 57s): It’s my pleasure. And it’s been a really, a lot of fun to do the interviews here. So we’re heading towards the finish line here. How’s the show been

Speaker 15 (1h 16m 10s): Very close to what we could have hoped for. I mean, three months ago, or before a show, you always have a, a maximum that you sings that you can reach. And we, we got very close to it. So I think it’s pretty much very close to the maximum that you can wish for at, at the current situation in the world.

Speaker 1 (1h 16m 30s): Yeah, because with COVID they definitely limit you as to how many people you can have. Right? Yeah. The,

Speaker 15 (1h 16m 36s): The wish from hotel was that we would not sell more than 945 entrance tickets and we sold about 920 online and then another 25 at the door. So we we’ll end it exactly on, on the spot.

Speaker 1 (1h 16m 49s): That’s fantastic. So you’ve had a little bit, we’ve had to do some reshuffling this year. You had been doing this show in cuss skies and you moved it back to sit. Yes. And I’m thrilled because you know how I adore this place. I know you do too. What’s the, if you were to look into your crystal ball or you may already have it all planned out, what’s what’s 20, 23 look like for the show for the spring show,

Speaker 15 (1h 17m 17s): We’re back in cash cash. We’ve already signed a contract. So it’s all a written in stone and for September we’re back in, in Prague. So that’s how it’s going to look in 2023. So T S spring in cash cash T S fall in September in, in proc. And then also our new conference, the mainstream conference on article will also take place in September and in Prague.

Speaker 1 (1h 17m 44s): And that’s in 20 20, 22 or

Speaker 15 (1h 17m 45s): 20 23, 20 23 and 2022. We will be in proc in August because of, yeah, the European commission has trended low tell for half years. So we couldn’t get our usual September time slot. So for a one time exception, we have to do a August, which might actually be taking, looking at the Corona situation, not the worst because in September we might be in the eighth or ninth wave. And then in August, the it’s pretty, yeah, it’s always the Krone low season. It has been always been.

So it might, there might actually be some upside, even, even though personally, I’m also not a fan of the month of August for a conference.

Speaker 1 (1h 18m 24s): Yeah. Because it’s a European show and Europeans tend to get out of Dodge in August. Yeah.

Speaker 15 (1h 18m 31s): It’s a school holiday. So I mean, usually kids go back to school in Europe at the beginning of September. So obviously we are interfering with people’s holiday plans, but again, the wasn’t much of a, of a choice and yeah, but our show is always growing. So I don’t know if we grow 200 people and we lose 200 because of the timing, then it evens out and our real growth will come back in next year where I think 2023 will be the best, the best year in our conference history.

Speaker 1 (1h 19m 1s): So are you expecting a full capacity in Prague in August

Speaker 15 (1h 19m 6s): Pretty close? I think the way things are currently going. Yeah, I think so. I mean, Scandinavia has already pretty much taking off all limitations. Spain is looking into to getting rid of things in Germany. I know next year, the next month they are going to take a lot of restrictions off. So by August I sink and again, August is it’s a low, low season months for, for COVID. So I think we will definitely definitely be in the four digits again. So a thousand plus

Speaker 1 (1h 19m 38s): And dress. Thanks for being back with us on adult side broker talk. It was a real pleasure as always to be here and doing the podcast interviews from here with were a blast. You’re going to really love it because you’re going to feel real good about all the nice comments people had about the show.

Speaker 15 (1h 19m 53s): Okay. Excellent. Very good. And yeah, thank you very much for coming out and joining us.

Speaker 1 (1h 19m 58s): Always. My pleasure. Thank you. Next week, we’ll be speaking with Jason Maskell of lifestyle, hot money and that’s it for this week’s adult site broker talk I’d like to thank my guests from the TES affiliate conference in Sitges, Spain. It was an awesome show and I’m looking forward to doing it again at their August show in Prague Talk to you again next week on the adult site broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Brian Gross of BSG Public Relations.

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A tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is three years old. They’re currently the only free to providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user request and user provided content after moderation. The owner started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it. And he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular on Reddit and business sword. The owner has decided to move into other ventures outside the adult industry, the sites visitors come back again and again, due to its uniqueness, they have over 13,000 premium videos, and most of them are 30 minutes or longer with more videos and categories.

The site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There is no advertising for the site. All of the traffic is either type in or from SEO. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic, only $359,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site, broker talk is Brian Gross of BSG public relations. Brian, thanks for being back us again today on the adult side, broker talk,

Speaker 2 (3m 2s): Is this a returning champion? Is this a

Speaker 1 (3m 5s): You? I said that, I said that to somebody, our returning champion and the, obviously they weren’t a, they weren’t a viewer of the show, so yeah. Yeah. I had to, I had to explain it to them. I know. I know every everybody should watch go, mark. Okay. Okay. Well let me tell everybody I’m good, man. I’m good. It’s great to be in Thailand. It’s

Speaker 2 (3m 29s): So it’s, it’s funny you say that. Cause someone literally, I said, oh, I’m I’m, I’m, it’s eight. O’clock here. They’re in Thailand and they go, we need to know the COVID situation. Cause we need to plan our trip. You need to ask. And that’s even my first official question, but since you brought that up,

Speaker 1 (3m 46s): Well, before I give your bio man, you’re screwed up my format before I,

Speaker 2 (3m 51s): Yeah, he’s getting,

Speaker 1 (3m 53s): He’s getting me good today. Well, it is entertaining. Dammit. You know, the COVID situations kind of iffy. It’s been bad for a while. That’s a fourth wave and we’re, Hmm. Let’s just say it’s stable at the moment. If you believe what the government tells you, but I don’t really believe everything. They tell us, it’s just kind of falling a little too into place for my purposes. They’re only going to allow starting in five or six days, they’re only going to allow vaccinated tourists from 40 something countries in America included and yeah, well it’s, it’s, it is what it is, but you know, they are vaccinating people now with what they call vaccines here.

They are starting to get some Pfizer and Madonna, but the other crap they use, I wouldn’t trust. So anyway, most, most of it’s AstraZeneca, but they’ve also used that Chinese one. So hopefully that answers your question. Now, can I do your bio since you’re setting the rules today? Yes, please. Yes, please. Is this like new rules? Okay. For those who don’t watch Belmore, I won’t say what that is. Okay. So Brian is president of BSG. Public relations has been in the service of media and PR for over 27 years.

Brian’s been employed by companies such as deaf American recordings, Warner brothers records, reprice records, electorate entertainment, group, vivid entertainment group, and such. He’s been employed by the Lollapalooza tour. Brian was executive producer for reality X, the search for Adam and Eve. His background includes all facets of public and media relations working with some of the largest businesses, celebrities and music acts in the world. And I’m still waiting to get some of those people on my podcast, by the way.

Okay. So You have a question for me.

Speaker 2 (5m 56s): All right. Cause this, this conversation got postponed was postponed a few times for very specific reasons. So, so the question is this is an, and mind you, it’s a question. Any question I ever asked is a question I would answer myself. Right. So I brought my aunt of course, to this question and I can explain it so on. And so sure, sure, sure. So the question is if you had to choose and you can pick one out of three of how or what, what series your beloved team would lose it, if it was going to be the DS and the CS or the Ws, which is the series you achieve now it’s going to happen, which is the series that is least painful.

Speaker 1 (6m 44s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s hard. And let me, let me explain to everybody that Brian’s a Dodger fan. And I was going to ask him about this by the way, because we will record this October 26th, not going to run for for a bit and it’ll be coming up on the super bowl. Maybe by the time it runs and it I’m a giants fan. He’s a Dodger fan. Obviously the two teams are bitter rivals and that goes back a couple of hundred years, I think 130

Speaker 2 (7m 13s): Years

Speaker 1 (7m 15s): Crazy. And we just, for those who don’t know, we just had an incredible season. Both teams giants, 107 wins Dodgers, 106 wins. Oh, it was a, it was crazy. Then we went to the division series and they beat us three games to two and painful. I’ve got to tell you though, I walked away, hating the daughters a lot less respecting the Dodgers a lot more. And yeah, I don’t, it, it kind of ruined me because I’m not sure I can never really hate the Dodgers again.

Kinda sucks. Cause I’ve hated the Dodgers since I was a little boy. But to answer your question, I don’t know. That’s hard one man, probably division series, but losing to the team, we did obviously hurts more, but I’ll tell you something else. I think the two teams and now the Dodgers just went out and the, and the championship series, a national championship series. I, I think the two teams absolutely wore each other out. And if you want my opinion, our series was the world series.

Speaker 2 (8m 23s): So my answer is the CS, because, and to your point, I felt two things. A once we beat the giants, I true Angeleno. Yeah. You want the world series, but this is one of the most underrated unwatched rivalries in the history of sports. It’s 130 years old. It covers two coasts. It started on one post, which I don’t know about your parental, but my, you know, my father and his family were Brooklyn fans, you know, K west, the whole nine.


Speaker 1 (9m 1s): There were a lot like you.

Speaker 2 (9m 2s): Yeah. And so my whole

Speaker 1 (9m 5s): Family

Speaker 2 (9m 5s): Did that. Yeah. So I have old Brooklyn Dodger programs in storage, stuff like that. And so I grew up a Dodger fan. Right. And you hated that hated ones and you on your end grow up. So it’s a big, so the Dodgers, yeah. These two teams beat each other up. And honestly, when the series ended was two nights ago now, or whatever, I felt a sense of relief. I was like, okay, cause here’s the you, of course. But here’s the thing. So, so we beat, you know, and, and, and we can go into the whole 60 game and what last season was and blah, blah, blah.

I get it. And I’ve seen all the memes and they’re hysterical, but the Braves wanted this one. They wanted it more. It was no question. And, and I’m never ever going to use the quote unquote injury bug as an excuse. You can’t injury is a part of sport and I’ve never been anyone who, any fan base, any person that starts going into injuries, the Braves had one of the best players in baseball taken off their roster.

So, I mean, forget the, the maximum C injury was, was freak. You had, you know, it’s a part of sports. It’s the way it goes. The Braves wanted it more in my opinion. And they’re there and they’re a great baseball team. And frankly now I’m of the opinion of if you’re a fan of sports and sort of the morality of sport, and

Speaker 1 (10m 32s): We’ve got a root for the Braves, my God, oh my God, my God.

Speaker 2 (10m 37s): I mean, I don’t like the thought. And of course the best

Speaker 1 (10m 41s): I resent what the Astros did to you guys, because I’m a baseball fan. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10m 47s): And got a slap on the wrist, absolute slap on the rescue.

Speaker 1 (10m 51s): Astro’s Astro’s are dirt, man. Astros are absolute dirt.

Speaker 2 (10m 55s): And you know, what’s painful about this whole thing. And it’s painful by the way, for both of us look at their manager, who’s their manager.

Speaker 1 (11m 1s): Yeah. I’ll be honest with you. I’m not a dusty baker fan. I haven’t been the dusty baker fan since he left San Francisco, the way he left. Wasn’t good. I won’t get into the specifics because it probably won’t sound good, but cause I try to be as PC as possible on this podcast,

Speaker 2 (11m 18s): Eight o’clock at night, my PC button might be out the window.

Speaker 1 (11m 20s): Yeah. I’m just, I’m not a dusty fan. So I can’t, there’s nothing about that team that makes me root for them. And in fact, if, if anything I’d root against them because of him. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (11m 32s): And I grew up, one of my childhood memories was dusty baker hitting a game, winning home, run in, in the early eighties when I was a kid and dusty baker being that sort of person. So when he started jumping around and of course he goes and is a manager of the giants and then DC and then takes the job in Houston. And my mind just went to like, are you bored? Do you, Dustin?

Speaker 1 (11m 56s): He was desperate. He was desperate. He was desperate.

Speaker 2 (11m 59s): I want to remember someone that you don’t want to think of them like that. And now he’s taking a team that obviously had skill players. They’ve got the players, they made it work. You know, they beat quality teams. That team

Speaker 1 (12m 13s): It’s a great team, but I can’t, I can’t root for them because of what they did a few years ago. Absolutely not. I never, I never will. I’ll always hate that. Franchise always hate that franchise.

Speaker 2 (12m 23s): And they got lucky. They got lucky because the year off of that, they come back during the pandemic, they, there was no, there, there was not even close. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12m 36s): So I get it. I get it. Now. They, they skated man. They skated.

Speaker 2 (12m 40s): So I can just turn off, you know, folk you, well, your, your Niners are problem. My Raiders are actually decent now that we got rid of the coach. So it’s a beautiful sports camp. You know, I’ll tell you this much though. It feels nice to have the sports calendar back, you know, feels nice to have the normalcy of,

Speaker 1 (12m 58s): And maybe you and I should be doing a podcast sports talk with Brian and Bruce. What do you think, man?

Speaker 2 (13m 4s): At some point I’m bad at that I can talk about,

Speaker 1 (13m 7s): I didn’t know you were as into it as you are. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. That’s it. As a mind, as a mom,

Speaker 2 (13m 12s): I’ll tell you that the greatest moment of my life hands down and I’ve got the ticket stub and the program, which is signed by a few players, I’m staring at it on my wall is a game 1 19 88. The, my friend in eighth grade started eighth grade. And my friend’s uncle was Tim Leary, not the LSD one, but the pitcher for the Los Angeles Dodgers. And we all got tickets to go to the world series game one. And I, I was there when Kirk hit the home run we did, which is a great story.

Because years later I met Mickey Hatcher at a restaurant in orange county and I go up to him and I’m like, oh my God, blah, blah. I’m like, by the way I was at Kmart and without even blinking, he goes, did you leave? I’m like, it’s not me. I’m not the head. I’m not the brake lights. I’m not the brake lights Mickey.

Speaker 1 (14m 1s): Oh, it’s you? Oh, you’re the one. Oh, you’re the one. Okay.

Speaker 2 (14m 4s): They never found those people. You know,

Speaker 1 (14m 8s): Of course they were,

Speaker 2 (14m 9s): You know, there’s, there’s an incredible shot of when the ball leaves the park off of Kirk Gibson’s bat of, of a car leaving past the unit Cal station and center. Right. And all of a sudden you see the brake lights go on. Cause they are obviously listening on the radio and they decided as most LA people do try and get out before the traffic. So that’s,

Speaker 1 (14m 31s): I still, I still love Vince Scully’s call. I was rooting hard for the A’s being a bay area guy, but it was, it was, it was, it was absolutely crushing for me, but that was, that was an overachieving team that did a great job. Long time after that, before you guys won another one, man,

Speaker 2 (14m 51s): 32 years, we’re very aware. And obviously a certain city loves to throw an asterisk on our, on our wind last year. But what’s very interesting, but it’s interesting. You bring up the overachieving, this and that you think about, you know, giants when 1 0 7, you know, lose, but think about, that’s the thing about baseball, right? Throw it once the playoffs start. It’s really that moment you can win. You know, I remember when the Mariners, what did they win? 1 0 8 and like 2001 or 2000

Speaker 1 (15m 20s): Something crazy or something.

Speaker 2 (15m 23s): I think it was an eliminated like that done. And it’s one of, it’s a sport, unlike any other where yeah, it’s a long season, it’s grueling. But once those playoffs start, it is literally about where you are there. Where’s your pitching. And who’s hitting because we have seen, it’s been pretty remarkable to see, well, you know, Cody Bellinger, couldn’t hit a baseball, save his life, the whole season battle

Speaker 1 (15m 48s): Along

Speaker 2 (15m 48s): With 10 that figured it out, you know, and the playoffs and stepped up and on the other end, Justin Turner, who’s a phone marketable. Couldn’t figure it out. So you have these, you have these peaks and valleys and you have these unknowns once, once baseball playoffs start. And the thing about this world series and, and most world series is as much as it comes down to pitching and hitting, it actually comes out of defense because you have witnessed in world series in the moment. So many teams just befuddle themselves when they get, you know, I can remember certain playoffs over the last few decades where the, the basic pitcher throw from, from to first off of a bunt or a short hit goes way word into the stance.

So I would not be surprised when they, you know, when this series gets started, that you’ll see key mistakes on the field that affect who winds up winning the series.

Speaker 1 (16m 43s): Sure. A lot of pressure and what the giants are really looking forward to, to welcome. And Chris Taylor next year in orange and black. So, so anyway, no, you just, just be aware it’s it’s been spoken and just remember who told you. Okay. All right. Let’s jump. Let’s jump into to the, my questions. So it’s been a while, since we last talked, what’s been happening with your business?

Speaker 2 (17m 13s): Well, I mean, I’m busy as ever. I’m great. Clients are great. And I, you know, I was thinking about it today. It’s like, what’s, what’s a point that I would bring up about this industry as a whole. And when I say this industry, it’s a whole umbrella under the adult entertainment industry. And that covers a lot of things. Sure. And, and obviously we had the only fans debacle and the longest that bled, you know, for a good few weeks. And I’m concerned about it in October now, we’re at the end of October and moving on into the rest of the year.

And I just feel like if you’re in this industry and you’re, you’re working hard, you know, if you’re putting in the effort and you’re doing your job and you’re looking out, whether it’s for you or your company or your clients or whoever it is you should be doing well, you should be in a great place right now because the businesses, all of them within the industry are thriving. Everyone’s busy. If you’re dealing with product, you might have supply chain stuff going on.

I have clientele in, in adult novelty and that’s not a stress right now, but it’s a concern. It exists, but companies are, are getting through that. But anything on the internet talent, you know, it’s, it’s, if you’re not doing well, you’re, you need to look in the mirror and, and someone could listen to that and call me on it and say, I’m wrong. Or you don’t know, blah, blah, blah. And I get that. It’s not a PR, I’m not throwing this a hundred percent, but I’m saying the majority of people right now in adult that I speak to, that you speak to are doing well, they’re busy, they’re making money.

They’re, they’re growing their businesses and they’re thriving and they’re taking, you know, and they’re, but they’re working hard. You know, this isn’t easy right now. It never, you know, it isn’t, but there’s less there isn’t government concern right there isn’t prosecution concerns. There are the things that used to be big concerns aren’t right now. So it’s opportunity to be taking advantage of an industry that’s small right now. I would say that there’s less actual production companies than ever before.

You know, there, there are people that you and I know that are no longer in the business have gone on to other industries. So if you’re in this and you’ve got it, if you’ve got it together, there really isn’t much of an excuse that you shouldn’t be doing well, that’s a trend that’s across the board. And, and for me, my clients are all busy. They’re all doing well. They all have a lot going on. And so it’s just a constant discussion of how we’re growing their businesses, how we’re getting them media, what, what are we doing to increase their, you know, their reach, you know, their brand reach and their, and their sales and whatnot.

So it’s, you know, that’s the one thing, because the one thing about this industry that I always stress is something’s going to happen with, there’s always a bump in the road. There’s always people that want to take us down. There’s always a group, a government, so on and so forth. So when things are good, you have to enjoy them because they’re not forever and we’ll have challenges and there will be points where you will have to look in the mirror and be like, all right, what’s going on? How do I, you know, what am I doing?

How do I improve the, the state I’m in? How do I improve the state for the people around me, but right now, as we head into the new year and, and, and so on, you, you, you should be in a good place and you should be seeing the growth that you’ve expected. And when those things happen, obviously

Speaker 1 (20m 48s): Public relations definitely comes into it in a serious way.

Speaker 2 (20m 53s): Yeah. I mean, it’s, for me, it’s, it’s constant contact with media and, and other entities as far as how do I, you know, extend, you know, the, the brand reach and, and everything that goes with my clients and what they’re looking to accomplish. So, you know, those are daily conversations and, you know, meetings and whatnot that, that take place. But to, to that point, yeah. I mean, there’s more media that are interested in covering this. Certainly the only fans debacle created such a massive media, you know, storm that it got more people interested in the industry.

I think most of the people that wrote about adult actually did their homework, you know, and wrote about what was going on. They didn’t write about it blindly. They didn’t write about it with like, you know, with pre-judgment, you know, if you looked at a lot of the articles, it was like, why is this company doing this? So it wasn’t you think about a company spoke about making a change to their company and the media responded with, whoa, why are you doing that? That seems, that seems not like your business. What’s, what’s your reasoning.

And, and that was, that was a very you’ve you’ve seen the tide turn in that part as far as sort of an acceptance of adult media and adult content. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22m 12s): Yeah. And when something happens with, with a, an only fans or a porn hub, which, which also went through quite a fiasco with the processing and the whole thing up in Canada. Oh. And not only that, but the big New York times hit two, two pronged hit job by the writer whose name will go and mention it, it creates opportunities for other clients. Right?

Speaker 2 (22m 37s): Absolutely. I mean, I’ve always looked at anything as opportunity, so you can dwell on the negative of whatever takes place, or you can look at what is taking place and how you can make it beneficial to your needs or to what you have going on sitting and sulking. Isn’t going to do anything. So, you know, it’s, it’s about taking advantage. And we haven’t even talked about the crypto aspect too, because obviously that’s only going to increase the NFTs crypto markets and, and whatnot are bringing more opportunities.

You know, I have a couple of crypto clients in the space as well. So it’s, you’re seeing growth in that regard. So I mean, the things that are, that are giving opportunity, people are jumping in and figuring out how to, how to work with. And I, I think it’s really exciting.

Speaker 1 (23m 24s): So why don’t you talk a little bit about by crypto crypto and NFTs? It certainly is, is I think in its infancy and it, it, it seems to be starting to take off.

Speaker 2 (23m 39s): I agree. You know, the funny thing going back to baseball is there’s a, there’s a battle and you might know more than I do about this. And I’m certainly doing my research, but there’s a battle in the NFT and the baseball card market. And you’re going to see that continue their stories with, with sports cards, baseball cards, different things, and the NFT world where, you know, valuations are starting to come into play on the adult end, you have talent, creating NFTs, doing deals with different companies and, and, and the like, and, and getting involved in the cryptocurrencies as well and promoting.

And so, and the underlying thing with that is sort of the acceptance, you know, you know, back in the day, or whenever you might say, if, if a quote unquote porn star was involved with something, you know, it might be risque. It might be looked at in a certain light and sometimes either a negative light or an ultra cool light. Now it’s just a more accepting light. You know, now it’s more a, Hey, you know, we’ve got this person who has this amount of followers and create, you know, creates this kind of content and the cert brand, making a certain number of NFTs, doing a deal with an NFT company, or getting involved with a crypto company and promoting crypto.

So it’s, it’s, you know, and then you’ve got the sort of underbelly of people and companies involved in the crypto market that just see opportunities. So, and then, and then obviously when someone like Elon Musk is shouting out cryptos different, different coins, right. It’s a game changer. So it’s far beyond the, Ooh, that’s a porn star. Whoo that’s, you know, that’s dirty, it’s far beyond that. We’ve, you know, that that’s, that’s left, that’s, that’s been left

Speaker 1 (25m 27s): In some circles,

Speaker 2 (25m 29s): But I’m specifically saying in the crypto NFT, mark, you know, it’s, it’s definitely been left behind and I haven’t gotten any pushback, you know, at all. And so it’s just, it’s been a forward forward progress. Now, now crypto media is a little different in the aspect of, you have so many companies with so much money in crypto that the media, the specific crypto media, they’re looking to get paid at anything they can. So they’re, they’re fearless in like, oh yeah, you need to pay us this amount.

If you want to do this. And they’re not all like that, but certainly there is a percentage. And so you pick and choose what media you deal with, because at the end of the day, they also know, well, if we’re going to get an interview with X, you know, whoever it is, and they’re not going to pay, but we want them because we want the SEO and we want the traffic, well, we’re going to have to suck it up and do that interview and not get paid for it. So there’s a battle in that regard when

Speaker 1 (26m 28s): You get paid.

Speaker 2 (26m 30s): Exactly. And so that’s been really interesting in that regard.

Speaker 1 (26m 34s): Yeah. So what’s your opinion of publicity in the age of social media?

Speaker 2 (26m 40s): It’s an important aspect. I mean, you know, you know, there’s been plenty of articles written about how a celebrity can now just deal with media and deal with their fan base, you know, directly through social media, which is fine, but you see, but there’s only so many hours in the day and just like you need a manager and an agent and whatever else in your corner, you still need someone in the publicity marketing end because your, your focus is on what it is you’re doing.

What makes you famous? My focus is on putting, putting this, aligning the stars and the people to help guide you and your brand to get the attention that you do want and to try and avoid the attention that you don’t want. So, I mean, I just, social media is a tool for me, you know, for me, when it comes to like my Twitter, for example, you know, I’m constantly tweeting out articles that I find interesting and mix, and also tweeting out articles about my clients, sending them to them, to their Twitter accounts.

So they retweet them and just trying to see what takes off and could potentially go viral. So I nothing’s changed in that regard. I have clients that do very well in different social media, whether it’s Twitter, Instagram, Tik, TOK, snap, and everything of the, of the elk. So I mean it, and then you have sort of the content creating companies that are almost an extended version of social media, I’ll be at paid. So it’s, you know, they kind of all bleed together in one way or another, whether it’s, you know, straight up publicity and media who are also advantageous on social media, the content creating, there’s a lot of bleeding together.

So I don’t look at one pushing or pulling the other as much as they all sort of exist in the space and you handle them accordingly. Got it.

Speaker 1 (28m 28s): So what are the industry’s publicity needs in the age of content creator platforms?

Speaker 2 (28m 37s): Well, someone’s got to, you know, if you’re a starlet and you have an only fans and you want the world to know about it, you can yell and scream as much as you want, or you can be as SEO savvy as you could be, but you still need help in the outreach. And that’s where someone like myself comes in. So it’s just taking advantage of media that will write about, you know, my clients. And if they’ve got a story to tell or something interesting to say, so it’s, you know, every, you know, you, whatever it is, you have to promote, you need help in promotion.

And there’s some people that are, you know, I had a conversation with a friend of mine, who’s doing a ton of different things. And is media trained is media savvy is getting herself media, and she’s not an adult star per se. She’s more of a, you know, sexologist therapists of the elk and she’s doing incredibly well on her own, but she’s got to do that. There’s the, you know, if she blows up and becomes incredibly successful and for lack of a better word, famous, more famous, then she’s not going to have time. And she’s going to need someone to help be in her corner and, and go through things because there’s sort of levels of publicity based on who the person is and how well known they are.

So the, you know, it’s important that when you, whoever you are and whatever it is you do, you only have 24 hours in a day and you have to make, take advantage and make the most out of them. So if you’re doing work that is taking away from something else that potentially makes you money, you need to question why you’re doing that. So, absolutely, absolutely. It’s very important that you, as who you are, whatever business you’re in, acknowledges that, and make sure you’re not losing, you’re not giving time away from money.

Speaker 1 (30m 23s): Oh yeah. And you know, I mean, all of the things that we do, you know, primarily the website brokering, but also marketing general consulting. These are things that people either don’t have the expertise for. And in your case, publicity, obviously they either don’t have the expertise for, or if they, if they were able to do it themselves, they would take away from their primary form of making money. And the question is, does it make any sense? And I think you and I both know the answer.

Speaker 2 (30m 54s): No it doesn’t. And there’s also the thing of, you know, you don’t want to be a Jack of many trades. You want to be the best at one trade. So, you know, I’ve been doing this for a long time and every day is different. You know, for 28 years, almost 29, every day is different.

Speaker 1 (31m 12s): He started when he was 10, by the way, I just

Speaker 2 (31m 16s): Ran out the womb, but it’s important that people understand, you know, I, you and I have met people in our lives that try to do a little bit of everything and just sort of take pride in that and ultimately are good at nothing. And I’m just not, you know, when I figured out what I wanted to do, which I did figure out, you know, fairly early, I, I just was like, all right, we’re going to take this trade on and, and go full bore and see where this goes. But, you know, once I was locked in, that was it.

And I just knew, you know, to climb the ladder and go. So I just think, you know, it’s really important and, and not everyone has that ability. I, I think finding what you want to be in life and what you want to do is incredibly can be incredibly challenging. And I just got incredibly lucky. So, but I knew once I had it. And once I developed mentors and started working for people that, okay, I like, I like impressing. I like living up to the standards set by those before me, who, with whom I learned from.

So it was important to, to, you know, it’s not just about for me and these people don’t even know I have that sort of mentality, but it’s for the, you want it, you want to impress upon those that have given you the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (32m 35s): Absolutely. And you’re going to look, you’re damn good at what you do, and that’s why I recommend you. So I appreciate it. Oh, not a problem. Well, you know that, and it, it, him being on this podcast is, is, and it in its own way and endorsement. So, and you’ve been on twice, so yeah,

Speaker 2 (32m 52s): I’m very special.

Speaker 1 (32m 54s): You are special. I’m sure your mother told you that many times. So how does talk about how public relations coexists with SEO almost, it’s almost something I’m asking for a friend who’s me right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33m 13s): I mean, I mean, that’s just verbiage, right? It’s like picking the right words, you know, it’s, you know, it’s one thing that I am in no way an expert on, but I just try to, you know, speak to people like you and people, others of the sort that understand SEO more than I do and, and figure it out. Well, I mean, that’s the trick SEO, right? It’s very, it’s, it’s, there’s constant moving the goalpost, right? Like at the end of the day by very powerful companies.

So you do your best, and then it hope the goalposts don’t get moved, you know, at this rate or, or taken down completely. So the relationship to me is just getting the right words out within, you know, within your brand, excuse me, and trying to accomplish that. But I’ll, I’ll tell you, I don’t focus on it. I don’t know if I don’t focus on it as much as I should, or I just don’t focus on it because I’ve got so much going on in the aspect of I’m trying to accomplish the media presence for my clients that can then ultimately turn into quality SEO.

So, I mean, those are the challenges of SEO are certainly, and, and, you know, I read on the same boards that you do, what the, what people go through. So I wish I wish there was, I don’t think there’s a golden answer. I really don’t. And there isn’t a golden answer cause the goalposts keep getting, and it’s not fair. And especially to this business

Speaker 1 (34m 43s): Well, but I mean, content in itself produces SEO Even with the, even without trying to.

Speaker 2 (34m 51s): Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that’s the whole thing I’m just trying to produce content, right. I’m just trying to keep, keep things interesting and keep conversations out there and keep things going so that my clients potentially see the SEO that they’re looking for. So, you know, ultimately I stay in my lane, do my job and hope that that correlates to accomplishing the SEO that is necessary for my clientele. I wish I had. And again, I, I wish I had some great answer, but I just think that is the answer right now.

And you just try and stay on top of it.

Speaker 1 (35m 23s): Yeah. You know, there seems to be a new content creator platform launched just about every day. How, how can they all be successful or can they,

Speaker 2 (35m 36s): They can’t. So it’s, it’s really how the backbone of the company and the businesses that will decide how well the platform is going to do. And the competition is so brutal and companies that are light years ahead are, are, are obviously, you know, in better places than newer ones. But certainly there were ones that launched earlier, you know, in the end of summer, in August, around what happened with only fans that have seen success and have seen opportunity and, and are hopefully doing the right things to grow.

But I mean, it’s no different than growing any other business. You gotta grow your customers, you gotta take care of your customers. You gotta take care of all the people involved and on both sides of it, the creators and the customers, and, you know, make sure that transactions are fluid and make sure the business is running smoothly. And if all that’s happening, you’ve got a good chance to succeed. But the space is definitely competitive, but that’s no different. I mean, our early two thousands, how many, there were 30 Gonzo porn companies, you know, so I mean, something becomes an opportunity.

People flood to it and there’s a survival of the fittest.

Speaker 1 (36m 44s): Yeah. It’s kind of using a, using another baseball parallel, build it and they will come. It’s happened with, as you said, with pay sites with certain nations who pay sites, God it’s happened with cams and continues to happen with cams. And now it’s happening with clip and fan sites and, and there’s, and there’s, and these companies are like, oh, well, I’ll open this and I’ll get rich.

Speaker 2 (37m 8s): Yeah. They see opportunity. But the companies that are going to last are the ones that do the basics. Right? Sure. At the end of the day. So there’s no, there’s no more than that. As far as like what’s going to differentiate. And obviously companies that had a headstart and took advantage are going to be well. And usually there’s one company, you know, we only fans is on the tip of the tongue of, of every, any, and everyone. So, you know, we’ll see where it goes.

We’ll see what happens. I don’t, you know, only, only frankly one or two people know as far as what those, what that company will ultimately decide, but the other companies will, you know, see opportunity and take advantage of it as much as possible. You know? And, and there’s creativity, there’s marketing, there’s publicity, there’s sales, there’s everything that goes into it. But again, we, you know, for me, early two thousands, I had a ton of Gonzo, you know, adult companies, then there were pay sites and then there were campsites now there’s content.

So, and, and all the while there were still production companies. Right, right. You know, you still, you know, the pre-doc production companies I work with are doing incredibly well, saw incredible growth through the pandemic and have continued. So I mean, you know, the, the need for content isn’t going away, how it’s being delivered is in a constant change. And those that are able to deliver a quality product to it, to the consumer in an easy, and, you know, profitable way are going to be ahead of the others.


Speaker 1 (38m 43s): Do work with a lot of, a lot of studios. And this is a good question for you. The, the content platforms certainly have taken a lot of the talent away from the studios. A lot of the performers don’t want to work for a studio now when they can make a hundred thousand dollars a month say with, with an only fans or, or another similar platform, talk about that challenge.

Speaker 2 (39m 14s): Well, I actually, the, the talent that are really smart, look at the studio in a whole different way. So count decks. I have my only fans, I can only have so much reach, right. But if I go and shoot a scene with a large production company that has the reach of millions and puts my name out there, and now I’m branded with set company, I can use that to my advantage. So what talent are doing the smarter talent. They’re not looking at working with the companies as like this, make it or break it moneymaker.

They’re looking at it as an opportunity to expand their brand and to increase their fan base and to ultimately bring that fan base, to introduce them to their content platforms and the smarter talent, the more savvy talent are doing that. And that’s what you’re saying.

Speaker 1 (40m 4s): Mr. Marshall, the smarter ones are the more, more astute ones are, but aren’t the studio still losing people?

Speaker 2 (40m 11s): No, I don’t think so. I haven’t really, I have not, not, I don’t know, one producer director in the circle that I work with that has had any problem with finding talent or any, any notion of losing them. Absolutely. Because the talent, how are they going to reach their audience? You can only reach it through, you know, so much through your social and through your content platforms. Yeah. But if you shoot with a company that’s content is seen around the world and is one of the largest names in adult production, then you’re going to garner a larger fan base.

And that’s just knowing how to brand yourself and knowing what type of scenes to shoot and knowing who to work with and knowing well, who you want to produce and direct you. So it’s become a, it’s a totally different mindset than what it was before. And, and there’s plenty of male, female trans, lb, you know, all, all, all facets that are going into production companies, working with them. And both parties have taken advantage of it. The other, you know, it’s not like ones, you know, both, you know, they both look at it and go, this is, you know, I’m not gonna say taken advantage, but as much as looking at opportunity with each other, you know, the company, the company shoots with a talent, who’s got a million followers.

Well, she’s going to let them know that she shot with that company and the talent who is shot with the production company. One of the most famous of the world is going to let you know, is going to let that company promote the hell out of whatever the scene is or whatever everybody

Speaker 1 (41m 40s): Wins. So absolutely

Speaker 2 (41m 43s): You win. If you’re smart, you’re winning. If you’re savvy, you win. If you’ve got some business ethicacy and you know what you’re doing, you know, so no, I haven’t, well, you’re bringing up is absolutely nothing what I’ve seen once. And that goes back to what my original statement of like, if you’re in this business and you’re doing what you should be doing, you should be doing well. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): And now you mentioned that with the industry, obviously getting a boost from the pandemic. So how do you think people in our industry can continue to thrive after the pandemic?

Speaker 2 (42m 13s): Well, I mean, you gotta, you gotta do what you do best and that’s up to the person, the company and so on. So if you know what you can do best at, you got to stick with it, you know, and you and I, so we can go back to sports. Everything always goes back to sports. Of course, if you’ve got a consistent, if you’re, if you are known and you’ve got a bat and you hit APO and, and you know how to work against the shift, then you’re going to be in that lineup. Or if you’re Chris Taylor and you just consistently get up there and can muscle the ball and you get to giants and hopefully never ever wear orange and black, you know, you’ll, you know, you’ll, you’ll find success.

So in this industry, we, we got, we had sort of a rocket boost out of the pandemic. It’s not going away. It’s, it’s sure as hell is not going away. So it’s just a matter of, you know, maintaining that growth or being smart when that growth happened. You know, I didn’t find too many companies going Willy nilly spending going crazy because they saw a lot of money coming in. I just saw them building up, you know, their reservoir for knowing that, Hey, this isn’t going to last forever. But if I want to keep this company steady and healthy, you know, plan accordingly.

So we’re going to do well. The number, you know, the pandemic is obviously once in a lifetime, you know, once every 118 years. So, I mean, you know, this is, this is definitely, and it was an opportunity that businesses were able to take advantage of and then hopefully sustain as, as we, you know, get out of it. Sure.

Speaker 1 (43m 46s): So the industry has obviously undergone a lot of changes in the last few years, or even in the last few months, how has their publicity needs changed with it?

Speaker 2 (43m 57s): I don’t think it’s changed. I just think whether they’ve needed more or less. So, I mean, if it’s, you know, if you’re a startup or something new and you really need the outreach, then you need that more aggressive push. If you’re doing fine, but you just need, you know, someone to help maintain. And then also, you know, there’s been a lot of, you know, crisis PR there’s, there’s always challenges. And there’s always something around the corner that you’re going to get the call. I get the call at midnight, from someone in wherever they are that says we got a problem.

So, you know, it’s having someone that has the experience with that now in the know-how and bring, you know, as, as is reachable and isn’t afraid and can handle those types of the occurrences that are going to happen. It’s not if, but when it’s like a motorcyclist, it’s not, it’s not, if you’re going to fall off the bike and get an accident, it’s when you’re going to fall off. So that’s why

Speaker 1 (44m 47s): I don’t ride a motorcycle. Yeah. It

Speaker 2 (44m 49s): Makes two of us. So, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it, it differentiates to the company and the person as to what their publicity needs are. But you know, if you’re trying to grow your brand, it’s definitely an aspect, an important aspect of marketing.

Speaker 1 (45m 5s): Okay. Let’s say someone doesn’t, they’re new or they’re small, and they don’t have a budget to hire people. How should they be handling social media and publicity, if they try to do it themselves?

Speaker 2 (45m 18s): Well, they should educate themselves. And there’s plenty of resources for that. I mean, I’m not going to go into it, but certainly the, the almighty power of Google will give you some great resources. And then you just gotta learn it’s with any business though. Right? You gotta educate yourself. So if you’re getting into this and you’re not educating yourself, I’m going to ask you to kindly and politely leave because don’t waste our time. Don’t waste the time of people that have put in the blood, sweat and tears, don’t don’t look at our industry is just like, oh, I could be a barista.

I could go take my clothes off, take this thing seriously. I work with people that take it seriously. So you need to educate yourself. And once you have that going, and once you figure yourself out, figure out your brand, figure out your, your, your fan base, figure out the consumer that is most interesting to you, figure out how you’re raising capital. You know, then you, you know, then you, then you’ve got some business savvy, but I have no appreciation for people that, especially with this industry that come in and just think they’re gonna, you know, their shit doesn’t stink and they’re going to be famous tomorrow.

And also,

Speaker 1 (46m 24s): It also helps to do your research before contacting a company like you, right?

Speaker 2 (46m 29s): Yeah. I have to, you know, I, people I’ve always said, people either understand what they do, what I do, or they have no clue what I do. And I’ve dealt with both. So, you know, I obviously prefer one over the other. So it’s, it’s important that you’re doing, you know, if you’re going to write, if you’re sending me money, I’m like college education, you, you know, it’s expensive and I’m going to try and give you the best education you can. But if you’re not going to read the books, this is all going to go to waste. And that’s not my problem. That’s your problem.

Speaker 1 (46m 59s): Yeah. Very true. Okay. So before we go today, do you have any more questions for me?

Speaker 2 (47m 4s): Oh my goodness. Let’s see. So you guys somehow have the most coaches of any team in major league baseball back to the

Speaker 1 (47m 15s): Giants. Yes.

Speaker 2 (47m 16s): Yes. And so, so what, so is that gonna, are you gonna maintain that, is that going to change or a baseball, are other teams going to pick up on that in the aspect of what they saw the giants do this list?

Speaker 1 (47m 28s): Absolutely. You know, I think Brian that people, the giants were such an unexpected phenomenon this year. I mean, they were predicted by all the experts to win 74 games and they won 107. It was, the turnaround was just incredible. So teams will look at that and they’re going to pick apart everything we do. And for first off, they’re going to try to steal some of our people. Of course, just like that always happens. I mean, we, we stole far on anxiety from you guys to your general manager to run our baseball operation.

And that has a lot to do with what’s going on now with the giants, I’ll give the Dodgers credit for that. I’ll give Farhan more credit because of his training with both Oakland and Los Angeles. But I mean, yeah, we got 14 coaches and there will be a coach and assistant coach and an assistant’s assistant for a lot of things. We also, it, wasn’t just the number of coaches. If you look at the experience level, quote, unquote, experience level, the experience was not that high.

We’ve got one young lady who had worked in the front office on a couple of levels, but more than anything else, she was a, she was a college, a softball player, and she’s a coach Alyssa neck. And, and that’s opened the door for some women, which I think is fabulous. And I think that there’s going to be more people coming in from the college level, more people coming in who never played major league baseball, which is the key.

I don’t think our bench coach ever played major league baseball, which is unheard of. So I think it’s like thinking outside the box and at, you know, I mean gave capital was with the Dodgers, you know, a lot about Gabe capital or a manager, he thinks differently. And I think that that’s what a lot of teams are going to try to do. Will they replicate the success in most cases, that doesn’t happen because you try to copy?

Speaker 2 (49m 37s): Well, the interesting thing about the national league to me, it was when you look at the landscape, there’s really only four teams for the next few years. You can see the teams that are still going to struggle. And a lot of the struggles start at the top, the general manager and ownership. So the stable teams, like the giants, like the Dodgers, like Atlanta, and are really going to be sticking around for a while. And, and you’ve always got the Cardinals, but then the Cardinals go ahead and they fire their coach. So I mean,

Speaker 1 (50m 8s): Stupid firing their manager. Potteries, we’re just going to turn around and hire them now.

Speaker 2 (50m 12s): Yeah. And, and, and, but then you have these organizations that, that falter, I mean, the nos has three teams that just can’t keep it together. The central has two teams that are always, you know, seem to fall on themselves. And, and the east is, is, you know, pretty much a joke outside of one team. So it’s, it’s a very interesting landscape where

Speaker 1 (50m 35s): Watch out for Miami, by the way,

Speaker 2 (50m 38s): I I’d love to, but I’ve actually been to that stadium twice. And I think it’s, I mean, let’s not upset the Miami sports base cause they get enough crap. But you know, the funny thing about Derek Jeter running that team is he’s literally now taking the entire state of Florida and made it the Yankees training grounds. So at any point, if someone becomes really good, he gets a phone call and all of a sudden they’re in pinstripes. So it’s one thing when it was Tampa, where the minor league is Jeter goes, runs Miami and oh, there goes Stanton put on pinstripes, you know?

So it’s pretty hysterical in that manner. I give, I give no chance to, to that organization based on specifically, who’s running it, who his loyalty is, he’s gets paid in Miami, but don’t tell me his loyalty is to the Bronx.

Speaker 1 (51m 30s): We’ll see. We’ll see. We’ll see.

Speaker 2 (51m 31s): Right. We’ll have this conference. When do you think? So you’re saying Miami will be a playoff team way within two years. Okay. Let’s let’s mark this, put a little note down and, and I will tell you, there is no chance Miami makes a play off of

Speaker 1 (51m 44s): Tears. Okay. Sounds good.

Speaker 2 (51m 48s): And it’s a team that you and I could care less about by the way.

Speaker 1 (51m 50s): Oh yeah. They can really back and really give a shit quite frankly. Okay, Brian. Well, Hey, I’d like to thank you again for being our guests. Hey, I’m adults. I broke her tuck and I know we’ll get a chance to do it again soon. Sounds good. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation that the potential buyers may want to find out about.

This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images and number of videos. How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years. If your company is that old, there should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports. Get all the information organized in a legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them.

Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know such as are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts or anything else? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week, we’ll be speaking with attendees of the T E S affiliate conference happening this week in Sitges Spain. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Brian Gross of BSG Public Relations Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Robin and Aerie from Adult Mutual Aid.

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Our property of the week, that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale or portfolio of eight Amazon FBA adult beauty stores. These brands have enjoyed steady growth over their eight years in business with many products, commanding a dominant market share in their vertical with combined revenues of $3.4 million in 2021, and an impressive 15,000 plus customer reviews setting itself apart with its distinctive product style and branding that businesses winning product formula and launch strategy has been multiplied across different customer types to greatly increase market share and expand the business over time.

The brands now number over 80 listings, including bundles, and they include lightening creams, lubricants, sexual aids, and other personal care items for adult intimacy. The products which have formulas exclusive to the owner have proven hugely profitable over time with the business enjoying massive gross margins of almost 40% with absolutely no advertising spend outside of Amazon included are standard operating procedures for all activities related to Amazon selling.

Meaning the buyer is getting the intellectual property rights. They would not be to find elsewhere. The business has massive growth opportunities, especially by marketing outside of Amazon and the e-commerce and brick and mortar spaces. As the current owners have not done much to promote the websites and I’ve not sought a retail distributor. The business can be run from anywhere and it could be run by outsourced firms at a very low operating cost. The business also enjoys strong diversification of revenues across its major product lines, brands, and keywords, giving it stable growth over time.

The businesses run in a highly effective hands-off way. With day to day operations managed by a team of outsource personnel with the owner working only about 30 hours per week. The reason for the sale is that the owners have been in the category for a long time, and now wish to divest themselves to turn attention to newer verticals. They’ve already moved into this incredible company is now only $5 million. Now time for this week’s interview my guest today on adult side broker talk, and yes, I said, guests are Arie Saunders and Robin.

Lafaye the founders of adult mutual aid ladies. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (4m 15s): Thank you for having us. It’s a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (4m 19s): Thank you, Robin. Now we’ll introduce the two of you areas and adult industry advocate, web designer and performer starting in 2015 areas used her experience in the adult industry to pilot, many websites dedicated to assisting performers in the online adult industry. She earned a nomination for most helpful model in 2021, but also as nominations for best clip artist and Dom of the year in recent years, she’s devoted most of her time to helping new performers learn about the industry, as well as teaching seasoned performers, how to build their brand and online presence.

Robin is a sex worker and advocate. Who’s been active in the adult industry since all the way back in 2017. It doesn’t sound long to a guy who just turned 64. Let me tell you her advocacy has gotten her a nomination for sex worker advocate at the why not cam awards. She also runs an active fan club and puts on live shows on strip chat and cherry TV. Robin’s activism is a major motivating factor for career, and she hopes to scale her advocacy to bring greater assistance to sex workers.

Mental I’ll tell people about the organization. Adult mutual aid is an open forum for requesting and supplying mutual aid for sex workers in a streamlined way to put them in contact with each other, to supply a request aid without the concern of vetting applications, personally, with the forum financially or socially privileged sex workers can look for mutual aid request that they feel aligned with their morals and values and donate to the sex worker directly through their preferred methods. You can visit them@adultmutualaid.com and ladies, I’m sorry.

That’s all the time we have for today.

Speaker 2 (6m 8s): I know that was a mouthful and that’s coming from a porn star. I’m serious about my mouthfuls.

Speaker 1 (6m 18s): Well, that’s good. I like it. Okay. So, ah, what inspired the two of you to start adult mutual aid?

Speaker 2 (6m 26s): I think Robin has to answer this one because we were at an event together and a situation happened that spoke barely, very intimately to both of us, like in our souls that upset us with price shaming and stuff like that. And it’s what got both of us thinking about it. So Robin, what inspired us? Well, I remember specifically, I just didn’t really like a lot of the price shaming that was going on in the industry. And I didn’t, I don’t want to like specifically say any like names or anything like that, but it was just kind of eye-opening to see that like a lot of like industry workers, especially like upper industry workers are kind of just like disconnected from what, like the majority sex worker experience is, which isn’t, you know, opulence and know sometimes like it’s literally just about like paying your bills or like trying to make the next car payment or something like that.

So it just, the disconnect was kind of like alarming and I was like, we kinda need to like get back to what the majority sex worker experiences.

Speaker 1 (7m 42s): Sure. Hey, by the way, Robin, if you could make sure you get a little closer to your microphone, if possible, okay. Area you were going to say something

Speaker 2 (7m 52s): I was going to say, and then me and her were actually roommates at this event. It was the first time we met and we happen to fall into each other’s arms with our corresponding categories for our nominations. I mean, most helpful model in sex worker advocate. That just sounds like it would be a good room to be in. Right. So I obviously have web development experience. I actually recently got hired as a web designer for wee RPS group.com. So that’s a big deal and I’m excited about it, but I have my own server.

I have all of my equipment for designing websites and I have the capability obviously to produce a forum. And the biggest question we had for ourselves is, you know, what is the best way to make sure that people are getting the support that they need without having to have them apply and possibly excluding people. So we bounced back and forth and a forum idea was born

Speaker 1 (8m 51s): Well, it’s an, it’s an awesome looking site by the way. So if you did it congrats,

Speaker 2 (8m 55s): Thank you. I did

Speaker 1 (8m 57s): Lovely. So who can submit a request?

Speaker 2 (9m 3s): So anyone is able to submit an aid request and it was one of the most important things to us to ensure that no request is too big or too small and that no one is denied the audience for their request. So any requests that submitted, whether it be, you need to make a car payment, you’re looking for assistance with gender transitions, you’re saving up for a surgery or vet bills, or you’re simply just a little behind on rent or your mortgage. You can submit an aid request for just about anything that you actually need aid for,

Speaker 1 (9m 36s): Or you’re just poor or you’re just poor and you can’t make your bills.

Speaker 2 (9m 40s): Yeah. And I mean, that is a situation that affects a lot of sex workers and it’s unfortunate, but our site is open to full service, sex workers, fetish workers that work in person, online, sex workers and all of that. So no matter what your situation, if you are a sex worker, you can turn to our website to ask for help. And there’s no judgment. And if you’re having a hard time making ends meet, you know, it’s nothing to be embarrassed about. And it’s okay to ask for help.

Speaker 1 (10m 11s): Just out of curiosity, how do you vet people?

Speaker 2 (10m 14s): So our vetting process currently is going through social media and a verified link for selling, whether that be, you know, many of its clips for sale, whatever, since they do ID verifications, we’re also working with suede Vegas who does their own vetting process. And then they send us people to post for additional assistance. And in the future, once we get more traction, if we find that we’re having a hard time with the vetting through links and stuff like that, we’re going to opt to do just quick, like two minute video calls, just to verify that it’s a real person, it’s a sex worker, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (10m 51s): Yeah. Because you always have to worry. I think about people trying to, to game any system, is that right?

Speaker 2 (10m 59s): Well, our system, since it’s not going to be directly from us and it’s about appealing to other sex workers, it’s a lot harder to scam the system because obviously sex workers are more likely to relate and donate to people that they can physically see and support. And it’s probably going to be people that, you know, they’ve seen online, they’ve seen on social media. So it’s going to be a lot harder to deceive us and with our mutual experience in the industry, we’ve got years combined here.

I feel like we know a lot of people too.

Speaker 1 (11m 33s): Sure, sure. Well, you two are both wise beyond your years. Without a doubt. We had that. We had that conversation hurry. The first time we spoke with you at the, at the tender age being a CEO of a company. So yeah, I, I, I know you guys are already pretty streetwise.

Speaker 2 (11m 54s): Thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (11m 56s): Not a problem. You, you already know that I’m a fan.

Speaker 2 (12m 2s): I’ll take all the fans I can get.

Speaker 1 (12m 4s): Okay. So how does funding for the requests work?

Speaker 2 (12m 8s): So funding from the requests comes directly from sex workers. We post the links to the preferred payment methods and sex workers go to those links and donate directly to the sex worker that eliminates the need for an approval process, which can oftentimes leave certain groups at a disadvantage. And it can also put requests that aren’t seen as high priority on the back burner. When in reality, all requests should have the right to be seen and obviously have a chance at getting donated to.

So you just go on the site and we have a page specified for looking at aid requests. You hop on there and all of the links for donations on their preferred sites are listed and you can also find their social media. So if you want to do a little more research into who you’re donating to, you can do that as well.

Speaker 1 (12m 60s): Nice, nice. So Robin, what makes adult mutual aid different from other sex work mutual aid organizations

Speaker 2 (13m 10s): Too familiar with a lot of other mutual aid organizations. But I do feel like what we put together is connecting other sex workers directly because I felt like what was missing a lot of the time was the disconnect. Like people forget that survival as sex workers exist and sex workers who just don’t work for like that extra, like lavish lifestyle.

They just work as a job. Those exist too. And those are valid. And I like how this connects sex workers directly. So we all see what everyone’s experiences

Speaker 1 (13m 56s): Got it. By the way you mentioned something earlier, Robin, you mentioned price shaming. I think I know what that means, but maybe you could spell it out a little better.

Speaker 2 (14m 8s): There’s this idea that like price competition exists and like price shaming is basically when you make another person feel bad about their prices. And I know in this case, in particular, it was just like saying that sex workers, that price themselves low, like don’t value themselves or that it messes things up for everybody else. And it’s just, I felt like that was just a neglectful thing to say, because it’s just, you don’t know why someone’s pricing the way they is.

They are. And you like, I don’t know. I feel like everyone’s price is their own business.

Speaker 1 (14m 51s): Yeah. I mean, everyone has a reason. Right. And I mean, it’s, it’s one of those situations where, you know, everyone can set their own price. Isn’t that right.

Speaker 2 (15m 3s): Exactly. And the thing is there’s not market competition in sex work because all of us are individuals selling our individual products and the market for sex work. There’s already, you know, at least I would say 25 customers per model, that’s active in the industry and actually selling stuff. If not more, the people that consume porn are far greater than the amount of models that are in the industry and will ever be in the industry. So there’s really no such thing as price competition.

So to price, shame on the idea that price competition exists and somehow people charging a certain price impacts your own is absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (15m 46s): Yeah. I mean, look, I know that the Twitter verse when it’s a, when it come and also the, the forums for models can be rather nasty. And I mean to either can do either of, you know, why that is.

Speaker 2 (16m 7s): I feel like sites in particular, this is, this could send me on a whole tangent. So I’m going to summarize the best I can. So it’s in particular,

Speaker 1 (16m 14s): Okay. We don’t have a time limit to go ahead. Give me your answer.

Speaker 2 (16m 18s): Particular target models against one another, by creating an air of competition, rather than an air of inclusivity and fam like being in the same community, we don’t need to compete with each other. And the only reason we feel like we’re competing is because of algorithms put in place by sites to prioritize some performers over other performers. So it’s nothing in particular about us as individuals. And there’s no reason we should ever feel we’re in competition with one another.

And if anything, networking and mutual promotion of one another is extremely beneficial. But a lot of people are hesitant to do that because they feel it’s going to impact their placement and their bottom line.

Speaker 1 (17m 0s): Yeah. I mean, we’re all in this together, right? I mean, that, that should be how people should know

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): Exactly. We’re already in a highly stigmatized industry for websites and customers even try to do it too, to pit us against one another is unhealthy and it’s very toxic. And I think that also is a huge reason behind our project because we’re able to connect sex workers from all walks of life and provide support for one another.

Speaker 1 (17m 31s): Sure. Okay. So I’m going to address this to each of you. I will start with the quiet one. Robin, how did your backgrounds impact your dedication to mutual aid for sex workers?

Speaker 2 (17m 45s): Well, my background in particular, I do have a lot of homeless stints and my background. So I know what it’s like to just kind of be in like the lowest of the low kind of situations. And I, like I said, I feel like there’s like a disconnect from like people who have just never been there or haven’t been there in a long time. And I, I just, in all my times of like being in like struggling situations, it was always the people who had nothing that gave me everything.

And so it just so many people would give like their last dollar to me before somebody who had everything right. Would help me out. And so I thought, you know, mutual aid is the best way to go. Like a sex workers have helped me more than anything. Like other survivors survive. Each sex workers have helped me more than anything. I just like wrote this funny thing, not too long ago where I was just like, sex workers have been like passing around the same $5 bill to each other just to help each other out.

Speaker 1 (19m 1s): Hmm. That’s nice. That’s wow. That’s lovely. So how about, how about you Ari?

Speaker 2 (19m 7s): So I was homeless too. In the beginning of my sex work career. I started at the fresh ripe age of 18 three days after my birthday. I was living with my girlfriend at the time, but after we broke up, I was temporary homeless for a bit. I was in a car with my dog and the people who supported me rallied around me, supported my work and donated to helping me get into my first apartment where other sex workers. And when you’re in a tough situation like that, when you post about it on social media, you have to worry about your brand management, what it appears like.

And while it does reach other sex workers, it also reaches customers and they feel like they can, you know, swindle, you get you cheaper on prices and take advantage of that. So creating a hub to post these requests was very important to me because you also no longer have to worry about the impact that could potentially make on your brand.

Speaker 1 (20m 4s): Yeah. Because once you, once you put something on social media, it’s there forever.

Speaker 2 (20m 9s): Exactly. And with our website too, you can request that your posts be deleted at any time. And I mean, it only has whatever information is provided to us, so you can even submit anonymous requests.

Speaker 1 (20m 22s): Nice. So, so Eric, what are your goals for adult mutual aid?

Speaker 2 (20m 27s): So we’re currently working on connecting with mainstream sites. You know, the big popular names everybody’s heard of, whether it be AVN or expos, many beds, chatter bait, we’re working on a strategy to reach out to everybody and get listed on their site somewhere, whether it be under the resource section or something like that, just so that it’s a more accessible location, more people are coming across it. And I mean, the ultimate goal is obviously for, to become a centralized hub for requests and also for people to look for causes, to donate to, in order to do that, we need to get eyes on it.

So the biggest thing right now is just getting the word out.

Speaker 1 (21m 6s): Great. Robin, do you have anything you want to add to that?

Speaker 2 (21m 10s): No, I think right now that’s like what our next like, like steps are and plans are

Speaker 1 (21m 16s): Okay. Are you are going to be soliciting corporate sponsorships?

Speaker 2 (21m 22s): We have considered soliciting corporate sponsorships, but we don’t want to handle any funds right now. So if we could work out a way to get sponsorships where they donate directly to the causes listed, or they may be like host a fundraiser and then they go through our whole list, we just don’t want to handle any funds. So we’re trying to figure out the best way to handle sponsorships in that sense, but the best way any site could sponsor us is simply just a link on their site, whether it’s in the resource or footer, anything just to get eyes on it.

Speaker 1 (21m 55s): You are, you are more than welcome to be on the footer on all of our websites. I’ll tell you that right now.

Speaker 2 (22m 2s): Well, of

Speaker 1 (22m 3s): Course, of course, you know, I’ll do anything for, for a cause like this it’s it’s I think it’s phenomenal. I think it’s absolutely phenomenal. So, I mean, as far as corporate sponsorships go, you’re going to need funds for promotion, travel to events and things like that. So I know your business model is not to handle funds, but I would think as an organization, you’re going to need some funds. Aren’t you?

Speaker 2 (22m 33s): I don’t think events are something that we will prioritize. And I think we’re going to be able to squeeze in the building of our own brands, alongside the building of the website. And as someone who just went to my first event like two weeks ago, I really don’t think that events have the networking capabilities that people think that they do. Everybody there already knew me and knew about my website. So I don’t think it’s such a big opportunity for networking.

And I think that we can get further just promoting online and having other performers promote us because altogether the followings of performers are in the billions and probably trillions. When you think about it, all you gotta

Speaker 1 (23m 18s): Do. All you gotta do is get them to get them to, to share.

Speaker 2 (23m 22s): Exactly. And that’s free.

Speaker 1 (23m 24s): Beautiful thing. Isn’t it. So what would you like people applying for mutual aid to know Robin?

Speaker 2 (23m 34s): I just want them to know that applying for mutual aid is okay. Especially if they’re like hesitant and not sure that they want to apply. And if they are like already applying that, you know, sometimes it takes time and I hope everybody gets through whatever they’re going through.

Speaker 1 (23m 55s): Do you want to add anything?

Speaker 2 (23m 56s): I just want to say no, because it’s too small. A lot of people will look through other causes on the site and try to compare their own struggles to those. And you, you can’t compare your cause and what you need help with to what somebody else needs help with what you’ve gone through and what other people have gone through. They’ll never be the same and they’re never on the same level. You can’t compare her, you can’t compare struggle and you know, nothing is too small. If you feel like you need help ask for it, don’t be scared to.

Speaker 1 (24m 28s): And what about the whole mental health aspect of this? I know that a pineapple supports doing a lovely job of that. Have you, are you, are you doing anything to partner with them?

Speaker 2 (24m 40s): We have them listed on our resource page. We do have a resource page on our website that provides a list of mental health resources for sex workers and other mutual aid funds that can be applied to. So, yeah, me and Robin personally, both very strongly feel that mental health should be focused on in the adult industry. And it’s something that a lot of workers struggle with, but we’re still in the baby stage. So we’re just trying to come up with the best way to focus on everything we want to focus on.

So yeah, I mean, I am going to add pineapple support to my list of people that reach out to

Speaker 1 (25m 17s): I’ll do it for you. I’ll do it for you. We’re we’re, we’re sponsors, we’re corporate sponsors of theirs. So when, and when I asked you if you’re going to take corporate sponsorships, part of that was interest on my part. So just to let you know, you can, when, when the time comes, you can, you can hit me up and we can talk about it because like I said, I, I, I’m very dedicated to things like this, especially anything that involves mental health. So what would you like people donating to mutual aid causes on the site?

What do you want them to know about?

Speaker 2 (25m 52s): I just want them to know that first of all, we appreciate them visiting the site and using it for its intended purpose, which is to be a hub for finding these causes. And next, I just want them to know whether their donation is small, big, or even if they’re just there to find people looking for help to go support them on social media. That it’s a huge step in helping the community and that seeking out causes like this. When you know that you have extra funds or extra time to even go drop some retweets on something is a huge help.

And it’s great to keep money within the community as well. And know that you’re supporting causes in an already stigmatized community because adult workers in the regular world don’t often get mutual aid. They don’t get aid at all because it’s a frowned upon industry. So people think that sex workers make hundreds and thousands of dollars. And that’s not the reality. So when you support a sex worker, when you’re a sex worker yourself, you know, that you’re supporting someone that will probably not get much help from anywhere else.

Speaker 1 (26m 54s): Absolutely. And the other thing I, I would say to you is I would certainly look to get some, some mainstream press on this because I think this is something that’s not that I would expect to get a lot of donations from the outside, but I think it’s something that’s certainly newsworthy and it, it could do nothing but help.

Speaker 2 (27m 15s): I agree. I submit our PR to lad Bible actually.

Speaker 1 (27m 18s): Oh, okay. Okay. There you go. Fantastic. So why was it important to you to not collect donations and instead connect sex workers directly?

Speaker 2 (27m 30s): I think that it’s important because connecting sex workers directly allows them to choose causes that they feel strongly for and know that their funds are going to something that they support because when funds are handed handled internally, they get to pick and choose through applicants. And I don’t want to say any particular organization is going to pick someone with more followers or more online presence or something like that, so that the company looks better, but that can happen. And it’s something that we never want to put ourselves in a situation for.

And we want everybody to get equal exposure.

Speaker 1 (28m 6s): And then the other part of it is you, you certainly want to, to show people that you’re not in this to make money yourself.

Speaker 2 (28m 13s): Yeah. I’ve invested a lot of money into it and obviously will not be making any back.

Speaker 1 (28m 19s): Sure. Well, that’s, that’s, that’s w that’s why you put together an organization and not a business, you know, you’re, you’re donating your own money to do it, and you’re certainly donating your own time and that’s money. Yeah. Are there any projects on the horizon for adult mutual aid? We should know about

Speaker 2 (28m 39s): The biggest project is going to be a boosted verification process, and that will be coming in the next month. And this process will ensure that no spam is getting through everybody. That’s applying is 100% of sex worker. Our current system is great, but as we get more requests, we’re obviously gonna want to vet a little better. And that’s something that we’re going to be building towards and something that people can look forward to that when they’re browsing the requests for aid, that they know it’s a sex worker, even if it’s submitted under anonymous, they will be vetted completely.

Speaker 1 (29m 13s): Now, are there any projects outside of adult mutual aid? You’d like people to know about,

Speaker 2 (29m 19s): Hey, I have my own website with my own payment processing and I actually just added cryptocurrency to it. So, you know, if you want, if you want to buy my videos, Aerie, saunders.com, spell

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): That please.

Speaker 2 (29m 30s): A E R I E S a U N D E R S dot C O M

Speaker 1 (29m 41s): To make money so we can give our time. Right. And how about you Robin?

Speaker 2 (29m 46s): I don’t have any like projects, but I guess my work is a constant work in progress and a project. So yeah, all my resources and stuff is on like Robin lafaye.com,

Speaker 1 (30m 2s): Spelled

Speaker 2 (30m 4s): R O B I N L E F a y.com. Great. And I built that website. So if you think it’s sexy, I want some props for that. If the cute.

Speaker 1 (30m 17s): Sure. It’s sexy. I got to check your website out now. So is there anything you’d like to say to survival as sex workers in particular about adult

Speaker 2 (30m 29s): Mutual aid? Robin, I’m forcing you to talk first.

Speaker 1 (30m 32s): Okay. Robin, it’s all you,

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): I don’t know how to connect necessarily to like all survivalist sex workers. Cause I know it’s just, it could look like anything and it could be any type of situation and it can involve so many different factors, but I would like them to know that adult mutual aid is definitely there to support all types of situations that you find yourself in. And it’s just going to be like a judgment free zone. You D you’ll, you’ll be surprised at how many sex workers will connect with your story as well.

So I think that’s, what’s great about this site is sometimes we feel very alone and we don’t feel like our cause is worthy or maybe it’s embarrassing, or maybe it’s just hard to get it out. There are stories out there and getting everybody connected. You like realize you’re not as

Speaker 1 (31m 28s): Alone. Do you want to add anything to that?

Speaker 2 (31m 31s): I just want to add that a lot of the sex workers that survivalist sex workers look up to and see, and would like to be someday all started doing survival sex work. Nobody starts sex work and instantly makes hundreds of dollars and has a massive amount of fans. And it surprises people. When I tell them that I started my career homeless and it would surprise you how many other performers have you never have to be embarrassed about your background.

And as long as you focus on building a safe future for yourself, by not being scared to ask for help and looking for support, when you need it, you can succeed in this industry and just in general,

Speaker 1 (32m 16s): Okay. Now how can sex workers help support adult mutual aid besides monetary assistance?

Speaker 2 (32m 23s): Social media is the biggest way that you can support the site right now, getting eyes on it is our biggest mission. Our big project is what we’re going to be spending, you know, probably months doing until we’re ready to move on to a different project because in order for it to be the hub that we want it to be, it needs to actually be a hub. So just using your following performers have hundreds and thousands of followers on various platforms. So just creating a post about it saying, even if you like the idea, or if you see a cause that you think people should donate to sharing the link and just getting people over there is going to be the biggest help, if you’re unable to donate to the causes that are listed on the site.

Speaker 1 (33m 5s): Yeah. And you, you would hope that fans and customers would also,

Speaker 2 (33m 10s): Yeah. I mean, it’s encouraged, there’s nothing saying they can’t assist and it’s out there. It’s public information and the payment methods are there. So if they want to help too, I mean, what better way to continue community building then including fans as well?

Speaker 1 (33m 25s): Absolutely. So where can our listeners connect with the two of you online besides your websites? Or would that be where they connect with you online?

Speaker 2 (33m 34s): I mean, you can find all my links there, but Twitter at Aerie Saunders spelled the same way I spelled it before.

Speaker 1 (33m 40s): Okay. Robin.

Speaker 2 (33m 42s): Yeah. On my website is all my social media links, but Twitter’s probably where I’m the most active,

Speaker 1 (33m 49s): Well, Hey Robin and Eric, I’d like to thank you again for being our guests, our guests today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (33m 59s): We would love to be back and we hope we bring you some good news about how popular our site is. That sounds like I know it’s going to be that way.

Speaker 1 (34m 9s): I do too. Thank you. My broker took today is part four of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your website, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it trademarking, your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the psych and make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans.

You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends. If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or view porn, be creative, not just one of the many.

Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site. Think like a buyer, one planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with Brian Gross of B S G public relations. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests Robin and Aerie from Adult Mutual Aid. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

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