Adult Site Broker Talk

At Adult Site Broker we broker websites and companies for the adult space. In this podcast we’ll talk to the movers and shakers in the adult space and talk about how you can buy or sell a website or company for maximum profit and with a minimum of trouble, plus we’ll talk about the goings on in our industry.


0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry attorney Nick Zargarpour.

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1 (1m 23s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at adult side broker, we are offering a rapidly growing hair, shaving site. This site shows women getting their heads shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it is much easier to promote than other adult sites. The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they are getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site that is a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation.

1 (2m 4s):
It handles the billing and rebilling user information and video displays. There is also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales. The first month alone, there is no paid advertising that go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos and social media. The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. The site has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars.

1 (2m 47s):
There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guess today on adult site, broker talk is Nick czar, Gar poor Nick. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk, Hey, glad to be with you guys. It is a pleasure. Now Nick is a California attorney that has over 20 years of legal experience. He started when he was 12 in business and business litigation and over 35 years of experience starting and running successful small businesses. I think he ran his first business when he was three, actually, anyway, he handles clients and various legal aspects of the adult industry and brings a wealth of knowledge about both the operation and legal aspects of the business.

1 (3m 37s):
In addition to being a trial lawyer, Nick is also a professor teaching business plan, writing UCLA extension, Nick. How, and when did you get involved in doing legal work for the adult industry?

2 (3m 51s):
But seven years ago, I got approached by one of my clients that runs a strip club and he wanted to invest in adult industry and he wanted me to review and can negotiate some contracts for him. And I negotiated and we wrote up the contracts and he invested with a company and it was, I guess, more profitable at the beginning than it is later, but overall he was happy with it and it was just something for him to basically dabble it. Once I started doing business with them, with, with him and the other side, the other side decided they liked the way I did things and they started hiring me.

2 (4m 33s):
And then I got into the adult in the streets slowly but surely I would say probably about, oh, I say four or five years ago, I went to the Phoenix forum. Oh man. It is a good show. It is a good show. It

1 (4m 50s):
Was a good show. Yeah. Yeah. And that was very relaxing. And that was your first show.

2 (4m 56s):
That was the first show. Yeah, I did the Phoenix forum and then experts. I went to one AVN and I’ll be honest with you because for me it’s a business, a business thing. Yes. ABN was, it was a wonderful sitting at the Dunkin donuts and working. That’s pretty much what I did Saturday, the build up, but most of the time and worked, I

1 (5m 18s):
Think everybody can picture that, that spot and people with their laptops. There’s no two ways about it. Hey, I gotta ask you. So, so being a mainstream business guy and an attorney, what was your impression the first time you went to an adult expo?

2 (5m 36s):
First time I went to an adult expo. In what respect, like a first time I went, I went when I was like 21. I went to AVN.

1 (5m 46s):
No, no, no, no. I’m talking, I’m talking about as a business person.

2 (5m 49s):
Yeah. My first impression of the people at the Phoenix forum and other adults industry shows the business, the business ones is that they are wonderful people. The people are accepting of all kinds of, you know, different people, something that you don’t see that like, for example, I go to legal conferences too. And if someone shows up with orange hair, you know, something, they would be treated as a pariah at a legal conference. Maybe not overtly, but maybe, you know, just subconsciously they would do that. But when you go to the adult expo, everyone was adults, you know, business, a business, you know, no matter who you were, no matter what you did, no matter how many tattoos you have, what color hair you had or no hair at all, people treated you as one of their own in a very accepting.

2 (6m 36s):
And I really enjoyed that.

1 (6m 38s):
So when did you stop dyeing your hair? Orange? Well

2 (6m 45s):
Told me, I guess, would be the first jury trial I would ever have to go forces you to not, well, I know I didn’t have, I’ve never had one.

1 (6m 57s):
I know. I know that was a little, that was a little joke. Very little. I can, I can only muster so much early in the morning. So how do you like working with people in adult? You kind of answered this a little bit at the trade shows, but how do you like working with people and adult versus people in the rest of the business community?

2 (7m 18s):
Well, we get the same issues with the adults, people working in adult, as opposed to the ones that don’t work in adult. I get a lot of people that just think the handshake is good enough or what they were promised. Right, right, right. Or word of God and everything is good and Dory, and we can just go forward and without having to take any kind of, you know, you know, assurances that what we were promised or what you were promised is going to be actually delivered to you. Correct. Yeah. You know, and you get the same thing adult, maybe a little more.

1 (7m 57s):
Well, I think it’s, I think it’s a lot more, but I don’t know.

2 (8m 1s):
No, it’s a little more because, because I do get so many of my other clients that still, you know, just a non adult industry, that’s still believing that some of them are old school. Like I’ve got a gentleman in his eighties that still does deal by shaking hands. He does everything he’s supposed to, not everyone does that. And I kept telling him the, the deal that nowadays, when you shake hands with someone, you count your fingers to make sure they’re all there. And so is your ring. You make sure they didn’t.

1 (8m 31s):
Well, you should tell him that. As long as he’s shaking hands with somebody in his own age range, he’s probably in fairly good shape. That’s a little joke. But any anyone else forget about it? What type of legal work do you do in the industry?

2 (8m 47s):
Oh, we do all kinds. I mean, tell them, we do the negotiations on the large contracts. You know, when companies want to do deals with each other, you know, exchange of, of products we do in forcement, when there’s copyright violations, when someone took, you know, we have a case right now that a mainstream individual used copyrighted information videos from one of our clients. And they’re trying to say that, no, it’s fair use. And we’re saying, no, it’s not fair use anyways. That’s one of the things that we do now. It ranges. Now it goes from the biggest deals with the business to business aspect too.

2 (9m 30s):
I’ve had, you know, then we go to the other spectrum, the other end of the spectrum, where I represented two adult industry individuals living together whose neighbor was complaining about them having sex and too loud. And, and the landlord wanted to the victim. And I basically you’ve stepped in and said, no, no, no, no, no, you, you, you just basically this neighbor’s got it out for them because this neighbor is found out that aren’t my clients, aren’t adults. And therefore we are not going to put up that, you know, and you can’t do that in your you’re the victim. You try to evict them. I will go in there and I will basically put a full court press on you.

2 (10m 14s):
And of course we never heard anything after that. Wow. But again, it ranges, like what we do is we negotiate the contracts. We enforce the contracts. If we have to go to trial, we go to Trop. I’ve even had appeals. The issue is I had, when I was growing up, I worked for a family business. And in the family business, I found out when I had it as early as like 21, 22, I had a, I had a lawyer for the family business. It was a transactional attorney. I found out that a transactional attorney will do anything to settle the case, even at the disadvantage of you, the client, because he wants to avoid litigation.

2 (10m 59s):
Whereas I said to myself, well, I don’t want to be that kind of an attorney. So I negotiate. And because I’ve got the business background, because I used to be a consumer of legal services before I became the provider of legal services. I used to know what I hated about my lawyers and what my lawyers did in the family business. And I go out of my way not to do that. For example, they used to leave me voicemails, Hey Nick, this is Bob, blah, blah, blah. About, you know, this matter, blah, blah, blah. You know, please call me back. And there was a 0.1 on my bill.

1 (11m 36s):
Can you hear me, Bruce? Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy. That’s crazy. That’s crazy.

2 (11m 40s):
No, that we’ll do that 0.1 on my bill and I would have to argue. So I, I do not do anything like that. Most of the time my clients call me up and ask a quick question. I don’t even put it in the, in the computer. And if I have to put up think it, if I have to read documents and stuff like that, absolutely know it has to be built for, because I’m not Amazon. I don’t have boxes shipping out the door while I’m sitting there talking with you.

1 (12m 4s):
You don’t work. You don’t work for free nor should you.

2 (12m 7s):
Oh no, no one. Yeah. That’s why. Yeah. My time is basically my inventory and, and because of that, so I have to charge for it. But if it’s like someone that calls me up and asked a quick question, it’s a good client. You know, if someone has worked with me before someone has, you know, referred to me, when people tell me all of these things, I basically, you know, go out of my way to help them as much as possible. And, and if I know the answers, I give the answer. If I don’t know the answers, I try to get their answers or refer them to an attorney that does, I don’t refer, usually refer people to attorneys that I don’t know. Well, yeah, because I gotta be able to have the, that person’s cell phone and pick up the phone and say, Hey look, Larry, the person I referred to you is done happy with your services.

2 (12m 58s):
You’re not calling him back fast enough, calling her back fast enough. You better call the back line. And you’d be surprised. You know, that really is the biggest problem with attorneys is that they don’t return phone calls or emails.

1 (13m 15s):
I got it. I got a great story about billing. I, when I was doing my mom’s, I can’t even think of that or trust. We did the, sometimes the words don’t come early in the morning when I was doing her trust, I used an attorney and I was in an office building and we were on the fifth floor and two floors down, literally between a walk and an elevator ride about a minute, okay. Was this attorney? And so they delivered the documents to me.

1 (13m 55s):
And I got a bill for an hour who are delivering documents for delivery documents up to levels, taking an elevator. I hope you disputed that. I think, of course I did. I said, I’m not paying, I’m not paying that. Oh yeah. That’s the thing. That’s, that’s kind of the old school attorney way. And I say old school because some are still doing it. Okay. But that, to me, that’s just crime. It is. Yeah. I had

2 (14m 29s):
A, I have a client right now and a very interesting case, which is like for law, you know, it’s got sex appeal, it’s got money, it’s got everything. And in that situation, there was an attorney that this person had hired in a family law matter. And the lawyer is a famous LA divorce attorney and she’s this and she’s that. And she’s know this famous person’s attorney and that famous person’s attorney and all this other, you know, the bonafide, she would charge my client eight hours of attorney work for making a one hour appearance. And that is highly unethical.

2 (15m 11s):
And I told my, I told my client, you got to put your foot down as far as this family attorney. And by the way, one of the other things is I get people that say, oh, I went with, you know, Tom, blah, blah, blah, or Larry, blah, blah, blah. And he is, you know, this famous person’s attorney at that point and this person’s attorney and I’m thinking to myself, yeah. But the problem there you have is you are not famous,

1 (15m 40s):
Very famous. They want to be famous. So they figure if they, if they take on this person’s attorney, that that makes them famous.

2 (15m 48s):
Well, yeah. Some, some people maybe in the talent plan, you may think that’s funny, but, but no, I, I didn’t think about that aspect of it, but, but the problem is you’re not famous. You just become a cash cow to them. Of course, you know, you just become something for them that you’re secondary because your name is not on TMZ every week. Okay. Their name is, and therefore this cash, you’re just a cash cow for them. And they don’t give you the service. And you usually get relegated to some associate that you’ve never even heard of after first or second meeting or a legal assistant or a legal assistant that doesn’t even know what they’re talking about. And this is like one of the biggest issues I have with all of these big advertising law firms, you know, like all the big ones that are billboards and stuff like that.

2 (16m 34s):
Every time I’ve had someone come to me from one of their accounts and I don’t handle personal injury or any of that stuff. But you know, you always hear about the stories and the stories are, oh yeah. I talked with your attorney once. And then the rest of the time, it was just some paralegal that I was talking to. Which again, no, I just don’t run my practice that way. I, I still answer the phone myself, even though I, we have a staff of three, still do everything myself. There’s just no reason to do this. If I’m as an attorney, I can’t get off a phone call. I don’t want to be on, I don’t deserve to be an attorney.

1 (17m 9s):
I, I agree wholeheartedly. I, for, for attorneys like the ones you described, like, I’ll use the same saying that here in Thailand, they use for some of the, some of the work and girls that, that send their, their customers emails all the time saying that they need money. Yeah. We call the customers ATM machines. So, and they’re, they’re pretty much on the same level too. So what are some of the basic legal things business people need to do? Or

2 (17m 43s):
One of the things I’m finding out, and I give this as part of my class and it’s, I’ve given some lectures about this. It’s like basically the 10 things you need to know about contracts. I’m not going to go through all 10 of them right now. But one of the things that you really need, need to do is make sure you’re getting something. Yeah. I’m surprised how many contracts I read, where you’re supposed to do a, B, C, and the other side has some kind of an amorphous, you know, thing that they’re supposed to do. Something that’s not, you know, you know, written out something that’s not clear.

2 (18m 26s):
And sometimes when it’s clear, there is no date to it. You know, they can, they can literally sit on there and sit on it and not do something. You know, if they’re supposed to do it, you’ve done your part. Right. They’re supposed to do it. They say, well, I’ll get to it two months from now, nothing in the contract says that I have to do

1 (18m 47s):
Now. Yup. Yup. So

2 (18m 49s):
That’s one of the issues, right? The issues that I find a lot in contracts, second of all, though, there’s not even a contract, you know? And there’s just basically, like I said, you’d say something, the other person says something. If it’s something that is important to you, and of course it’s important to you because guess what? You are negotiating this with someone you are asking them to do it. Yup. Get it in writing. Yep. If it’s an exchange of emails and then the person asked him, if you, your understanding is the same, please, please say yes. Or tell me where I’m

1 (19m 29s):
Wrong. Yeah. In a reply email that could be used in court

2 (19m 35s):
Guess necessarily in court. It’s just clarifies everything for everyone. Like my business people. My, my more, let’s say, we’re talking to see the problem is we’re talking. I don’t know who we’re talking about right now. Are we talking about a brand new, just someone working out it, our home, you know, doing some work or something. One that is a more established business or someone that’s a super big business and they get something. If someone is supposed to do something for you, you get it in writing. They’re supposed to do it by this day. They’re what they’re supposed to do. Exactly. What’s the quality of what they’re supposed to do. And when are they supposed to do it by?

2 (20m 16s):
And if you’re a bigger company, this is good for you for you because now you can let your staff know, Hey, listen, you know, Larry is supposed to do this despite this date. And this is what we wrote, and this is what we’re supposed to do by this date. So it makes it easier for you as a manager, just do this and I’ll do that. And, and, and this way your staff knows it, you know it, and everyone else can basically work and row at the same pace towards the same goal. Sure. Okay. Sure. That’s very important to get in writing and, and people, you know, I just so many times there’s not a wing and a prayer, and sometimes they’re afraid to get this that, you know, it’s not just intentional.

2 (21m 1s):
They just don’t want to rock the boat.

1 (21m 3s):
Yeah, I get it. I get it. No, I, I I’ve been there. I completely understand. He

2 (21m 9s):
Promised me this and I don’t want to, you don’t want to be spending a month of your time working or more, less than, and not getting something done. Okay. And one at a time you were done by the time you’re done the other person isn’t performing or hasn’t done anything. Right. So you expect them to do it otherwise. Why waste your time? Your time is your money. You

1 (21m 37s):
Know, I, I can’t tell you how many agreements that I see. And I look at, and I I’m one of the few people you’ll find that actually reads something before they sign it. Okay. If it’s really complex, I’ll get it reviewed, you know, by, by an attorney. But most things I can handle, I have a pretty decent legal mind. I mean, I’m not an attorney, but I did stay at a holiday Inn express last night, but yeah, exactly. But I find that there are so many that are one sided or have language in it that I find unacceptable. And I go, no, I’m not going to do that.

1 (22m 19s):
And so, you know, I go, this has got to come out. This has got to come out. This has got to come out. This has got to come out. So let me ask you a question. When you’re writing an agreement, what, what philosophy do you put into writing one for your clients? So it will be acceptable and fair to the other side. You

2 (22m 39s):
Want to be successful. You have gotta make sure it’s, win-win my job. And that’s part of what I bring to the table. That other attorneys, I feel that don’t bring to the table because I can’t come from a family business background. I come from the business background, like I said, I was a consumer of legal services. Before I became a provider of legal services. I had lawyers that would come in there and destroy deals that go out of their way to ruin something. But my goal is to, you know, the first thing, one of the things I do in my program that I have for my accounting program is it says goals.

2 (23m 23s):
And I write my client’s goals in there. And that’s something that I refer to all the time. And when we’re dealing with contracts, when we’re dealing with litigation, when all of this stuff is being handled, we go from these goals. We follow these goals. We say, this is what they wanted. The ultimate goal is this. So how can I make sure that this is, this is achieved. This goal is achieved without ruining it. Now, let me tell you something. Ruth I’ve had situations where I told my client, this has happened about once every couple of years, it happens. I’d say to my client, the day you’re going to go sign this contract, not the one I negotiated, but the one that was put in front of them, I will come to your office and I’ll break every knuckle in your hand, just so you wouldn’t sign this thing.

2 (24m 11s):
And I’ve said that to clients, that I’m going to come over and break your knuckle, just so you can’t sign it because it is that bad because I see stuff in there.

1 (24m 21s):
Wait a minute of my time I talk, am, am I talking to Nick or Michael cone? This is my own client. I know. I know. I know.

2 (24m 32s):
Yeah. So, but this is my own client. I tell my client and I say, look, this is why this means this. That means this. You know, these are all things. Here’s a perfect example. Now this one is, and let me tell you something. First of all, one thing that people have to understand is this is very important. No one ever came into my office and said, Mick, I knew he was a scum sucking dirt bag. That’s why I went into business with him. Okay. It’s always, oh, he was my best friend. Oh, we were neighbors for 20 years.

2 (25m 12s):
Oh, we’ve known each other in the industry forever. All of these things, no one ever came up to me and said, I knew because the devil doesn’t wear, you know, horns and red, and it’s got a little, you know, an arrow for a tail walking around, you know, talking, wearing a suit, talking to you. Okay. The devil comes off as being the angel as being friendly. So you gotta be careful about that. And another red flag is when they hold something way too big over your, over your head, you know, like perfect example, non adult industry. I have a client who started a business by herself about let’s see what, the time we were negotiating.

2 (25m 57s):
This thing was about four years ago, we got four years. She gets approached by a company that is a startup that has $80 million in backing. And they want to buy her business for $4 million. So by all standards, a very successful business, you know, that she’s running. And the way they were paying was they were paying a lot above the, the earnings and they were paying way above and they were piping everything. So the doll of the pot of gold, the $4 million. Okay. And there were paying what all parameters, like if you did a business analysis, you would say businesses worth maybe a couple of million, but 4 million is definitely double that we get this contract from New York attorney.

2 (26m 44s):
Yeah. New York attorneys. Just love to write complicated agreements. This love writing,

1 (26m 52s):
Not just New York ones, but go ahead.

2 (26m 54s):
<inaudible> bad. Yeah. I had a lease agreement for a small restaurant that was 99 pages. How can you write a 99 page lease for a restaurant? It’s just insane. But this attorney had written for a $4 million con contract, you know, Paul, you buy, let’s say 60 pages over two separate contracts.

1 (27m 17s):
That’s not.

2 (27m 18s):
Yeah. Well it’s 60 pages is okay. Actually my record is 152 page letter. Yeah. But,

1 (27m 23s):
But I mean, for a, for a buy sell, what the hell could be, ah, funny, you should ask

2 (27m 30s):
You read in there about 20 pages in there is a section and, and, you know, had I not read everything, had she not decided or having me review everything with these guys, 20 pages in, and the deal was supposed to be like over X number of years and blah, blah, blah. And it was supposed to be like $300,000 at the beginning, then $120,000 every 90 days until basically we reached a $4 million range, something like that.

1 (28m 4s):
That’s kind of a strange path.

2 (28m 7s):
It’s, it’s, it’s the path because they want it to kind of the, it was kind of golden handcuffs because they wanted her to continue to work, you know, so they wanted her to be involved and they wanted all of these things. She go about 20 pages into this contract, 20 to 25 pages into the first contract. And then I see a very interesting clause in it. It said, okay, in a very convoluted language that if we decide on firing you at any point during this next, let’s say four years, okay. That we were going to pay you. Wow. I can’t wait. We will only give you 120 day notice and thereafter basically don’t owe you a pen.

2 (28m 49s):

1 (28m 49s):
Shit. I had a feeling. It was going in that direction. Oh my God.

2 (28m 54s):
Very convoluted manner. My God, my God basically meant that they literally could find this contract. Okay. Take over the company the next day, fire her. And instead of $4 million to her 300, it was $300,000 plus 120, $120,000. Something like that. I don’t remember all the numbers. So the $4 million contractors became 10% of them.

1 (29m 22s):
She didn’t, she didn’t when they, this attorney drafted this, they didn’t think anybody was gonna review it. Did they? Nope. Because fuck

2 (29m 33s):
In the industry that she is in. Yeah. Okay. There are notorious for not reading. Okay. Interesting. But they didn’t think that the attorney was going to review it or that the attorney was going to catch it. So I immediately picked up the phone call. I said, Hey, listen, I wanted to talk to you about this section. Okay. This clause you put in there. Okay. And by the way, it took me like two, three readings first to understand what’s going on. And secondly, to believe what’s going on, it’s like, how audacious are you? Like, what the heck is this paragraph?

1 (30m 10s):
That’s that’s again, it’s, it’s, it’s borderline.

2 (30m 15s):
It is. So I basically turned around, but I called them on it and the Lord with what I have to do, what’s best for my client by ripping off the basically reaching the entire contract. So he was coming in hauling and basically trying to do the best tap, dancing job he could do. And things like that. Well, you know, they don’t want to, you know,

1 (30m 34s):
He should go, he should go on. He should go into politics. Probably. I think, I think it’s those types of attorneys were singing Congress, by the way.

2 (30m 44s):
Yeah. Well, I don’t know we started on now, but that’s the kind of thing that you see. And if you’re not careful because the pot at the end was so big, you know? Yeah.

1 (30m 58s):
But, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t as it seemed,

2 (31m 2s):
No, it wasn’t as a team, we negotiated that right away. And then we went in there and I basically, at that point I was on like, I was on high alert. So I was going through that thing. I always go through a fine tooth comb. I went through, I think three times. And it was a fine tooth comb because I didn’t want to be, anyone would be scamming me or my clients or anything. And I didn’t trust them. And guess what? That deal eventually broke up. Not because of the course, but because they finally found out that the sorry, or I don’t know if they found out, but they knew that had they paid the $4 million, the dollars just weren’t there.

2 (31m 44s):

1 (31m 44s):
Right. If they had made a reasonable offer and you know, they could have been negotiated, but they wanted to steal it instead that’s

2 (31m 53s):
Broke. They, they, they broke the deal up because they couldn’t scam her. Right. And now the dollars wasn’t there, not now, they had the, the, the $4 million, you know, where they could have basically broken up after 2 million, after 1 million, whatever what’s financially feasible for them. All of a sudden they find out, oh my God, we can’t do this. So that was one

1 (32m 17s):
Of the cases. It’s funny, funny.

2 (32m 19s):
But again, this is what everyone needs to apply. You know, it’s written in the terms and conditions in the blah-blah-blah section, I call it because we all read that first section that says a and party B. And then we read the, you know, the recital, which has a, it’s supposed to do this B, it’s supposed to do this. And then you to the terms and conditions where everyone’s eyes glaze over. Right. I read them, I read them. So I

1 (32m 49s):
Get it. Not most, not many people do.

2 (32m 53s):
Sorry. One more thing in your audience, please. I don’t care how old you are. Start reading them. Even if you don’t get them the first time you read it, read it a second time and a third time, and maybe even draw a little chart for yourself that Bob is supposed to do this. Larry is supposed to do this six. I get back and forth. Whatever. Let me explain why that’s important by the time you’re on your third, fourth, fifth agreement, you get an eye for it as jibberish as it sounds sure it’s English. It becomes English where you might adjust.

2 (33m 35s):
It’s like me and take doc. The first time I was ticked off for the first day or two, it was like, my God, why is everything so fast? Why is everything 15? Like, oh my God, I can’t even focus on these videos are so fast. Now, any video that goes more than 30 seconds. Oh my God, this is so boring. Why is this taking so long? Okay. Your brain adjusts, your eyes adjust. And by the way, if you see a big legal word, like not even a big, like, whereas just put your thumb over it and the rest of the sentence without the whereas make sense.

1 (34m 4s):
Yeah, I got it. I got it. Yeah. You gotta read it, but better than reading it, six times hire an attorney. I say it all the time. People ask me, well, people are asking for legal advice, like on X biz or GF, why they’re saying, well, I’ve got this contract and what do I do about this? I go hire an attorney. Well, but hire an attorney. I mean, that’s my answer to everything. And that’s what I do. You know, I, when I, when I want to get my car fixed, I don’t try to fix it. Hire a mechanic. When I, when I have legal issues, I’ll hire an attorney. When I, you, when I, when something hurts, I go to the doctor. So anyway,

2 (34m 45s):
No, we’re more expensive than hiring an attorney,

1 (34m 48s):
Not hiring an attorney late. Yeah, no shit. So that kind of leads into this, you know, many people in our industry, like we talked about, don’t treat it like a business. How dangerous is that?

2 (35m 1s):
It’s extremely dangerous. Okay. Because of not only it can be your bench, your, you know, business deal, like where you sign a contract, where your outlay could be way more than the money that you’re getting. It could be a $10,000 contract to you, but it could be a hundred thousand dollars in damages that they’re going to claim when you don’t perform. Or if there’s something goes wrong. Right. So a hundred thousand dollars damage could be, you know, bankruptcy. Right, right. So it, it could be a bet, your business kind of a thing.

2 (35m 43s):
And when we’re most people like us, when we were, self-employed like, I am, you know, our business is our life. You know, we do spend the night, you know, waking up and you’re wearing, what was the, I tell another thing to my at UCLA class is, you know, the old joke is, you know, ever since I went into business for myself, I sleep like a baby. I wake up every two hours and cry.

1 (36m 5s):
That’s an old one. It’s an old one. But it’s true also. Yeah. I see a lot of lawsuits in our industry, especially from certain attorneys, when should someone Sue and when shouldn’t they shoot,

2 (36m 21s):
Oh boy, it’s such an open-ended question. Okay. A few things I would look for in deciding whether I want to Sue on the contract. Okay. On a business matter. The, why am I saying business matter if this was family law and they’re going through a divorce, they hate each other so much. They’ll spend $50,000 to collect that. That makes no sense. Right? They’ll do anything just to put a finger in the other person’s eye for business, you have to have a bit of a, you have to do the capitalists.

2 (37m 1s):
You have to do the calculations to make sure that it makes sense for you. Yeah.

1 (37m 5s):
But a lot of, a lot of business breakups for like divorces and people get really, really, really upset

2 (37m 12s):
Partnerships are a partnership breaks up a breakup and shareholder breakups, you know, everyone says partnership, but in reality, most of the time it’s SharePoint, the breakup is one of the second biggest things. As far as your emotions. Well, actually third, most important thing. I would put family number one, landlord tenant, number two, surprisingly, because when people like attack the way you will fight tooth and nail, and the third one would be partnership breakout. Yes. The issue is when should the question, sorry, going back to your question was when should you decide to Sue? It depends if it’s substantial sum of money, if it’s reputational that someone is destroying your reputation and it’s going to cost you more than the $10,000, that is at issue more than the $5,000 at an issue, definitely consider that.

2 (38m 8s):
Other thing you have to look at is one of the most important things that people need to understand is litigation is like a beauty contest. Okay. And because I’m so handsome, I win all, not kidding. So, but it is a beauty contest. So if you have your hand is dirty, take that into consideration as part of your, whether you Sue or not. I tell my clients, if that other side has done X, Y, and Z, and they’re all an ethical and bad and everything, that’s still doesn’t justify you doing a, B and C, because that comes out in litigation.

2 (38m 53s):
And I forced, the judge sits there and lift it’s a bench trial, which means only the judge decides, you know, the judge sits there and goes, okay, well, that guy did X, Y, and Z that’s bad, but you did a, B and C. And then I have to basically weigh which one was a worst conduct. If one side has just on the XYZ, the bad stuff, and you were clean, the judges will bend over back. Moshe did not all, you know, most judges will bend over backwards to try to have you win jewelries, do the same thing too, because they don’t want to be voting for someone that did something bad.

2 (39m 34s):
They don’t want to be saying, I’m putting my, you know, I’m voting for this guy because this guy is because then it becomes a curse upon both of your houses. So that’s another thing that you got to take into consideration in that is who did what, who, who was doing, how, you know, the actual third thing I would recommend. I think by the way, this list can go on forever. But third important factor that at once I would consider is collectability. Yes. Okay. The person has to be collectible that I can win judgements against so many people.

2 (40m 14s):
Okay. But are we able to collect it? Some kinds we do it because we have to do it. We have to prove to the world outside that we went and we enforced our rights because it’s reputational for us either. You know, it would look bad for us if we don’t do it, or people think that they’re going to get away with it by not paying us. Okay. We’re not taking care of we’re doing what they’re supposed to do with the company. So there’s the reputational. Then you have to kind of spend the money and go after this person because you want to make sure that there is an issue, right? Other times it’s not reputational. Other times, it’s, it’s just a matter of, you know, $50,000, but it’s not collectible or it’s going to cost me a lot to collect it.

2 (41m 1s):
Sure. And by the way, let your lawyer decide, okay. Or help you decide. Correct. I collected a $14,000 judgment in back in 2007. I got one, sorry, not collected. I’ve got a judgment for $14,000 in 2007, right. I immediately put, leans on, you know, what we call it abstract of judgment. This is by the way, California law, abstract of judgment everywhere. And I didn’t see anything about that for years. Last year we collected $42,000.

1 (41m 38s):
Well, my clients,

2 (41m 39s):
$14,000 judgment gets in California. It gets 10% simple interest.

1 (41m 44s):
Nice, nice.

2 (41m 46s):
So after all these years we negotiated our, I think we ended up giving her a couple of thousand off just to be, you know, somebody good. I think 40, 42, we got something like that. But we of course it at the time the person thought, eh, you know, you got a judge and again, he’s still white. I’m not going to pay the 14. Right. Okay. I had no idea that I had laid all these traps around and these traps basically had liens on their property.

1 (42m 11s):
Right. Go to when they go to, when they go to sell their property, they’ve nor their business state, they’ve got to pay them.

2 (42m 18s):
They’ve got to pay the lien before they do it. And another thing that, you know, that is dangerous, I’ve had this happen. I had a one person who was hiding all of their assets before they entered into business with my client. We went, we won, we got the judgment and the guy goes, I’m going to collectible. I don’t have any assets. And eventually that became true because the family member that they trusted with their assets took the assets.

1 (42m 54s):
Karma’s a bitch, much of litigation. These days comes from social work.

2 (43m 1s):
I’ve had a few cases on the social media. Like I get a lot of, one of the biggest things I get right now is, is when we have a shareholders basically breaking apart. And I tell everyone I’m worried about the divorce, not the wedding. You know what I mean with them? I worry about not everyone is all lovey w right down in my conference room. And I love you when you wake up, you know, I love you, you know, things like that. I’m thinking about when I hit, you know, I hit you, you know, things like that. And let’s put it in writing now, wireless cheaper, you know, and write it up. It’s some of these sentences that I write some of these paragraphs that I write in these operating agreements, or, you know, a buy-sell agreements between, between two shareholders, things like that.

2 (43m 48s):
It takes me maybe a minute to write, but that one minute saved 50 hours of legal time. Okay. If I write some simple thing, like venue, venue, like takes me what, 10 seconds, the right venue. But that can save my client thousands and thousands of dollars. Right.

1 (44m 12s):
I get that. But I mean, but I mean, w where do you, in the agreement and the initial agreement protecting against one partner, slandering the other partner in the case of a breakup or

2 (44m 24s):
<inaudible> social media aspect of it. Whenever they break up, whenever they break up, I invariably get a call from my client saying, oh, he’s slamming me on the social media. And then I go and look, and it’s not slamming you. It’s just basically saying, well, I’m no longer involved with so-and-so company. And I just didn’t feel like continuing working with them.

1 (44m 53s):
But, but what if, what if they really do slander them on social?

2 (44m 57s):
Well, a liable, because once it’s written, it’s liable, slander is when you say verbal, verbal. Yeah. Verbal. Yeah. Always remember S for speech. Yeah. So if it’s liable, if it’s a libelous conduct, yes. We can go after that and make sure you get the screenshots, make sure you do the HTML B. I want to make sure as much information as you have

1 (45m 23s):
Down before

2 (45m 24s):
It gets taken down. So the problem there sometimes is showing damages. Yes. But on certain things that the law believes damages are a given.

1 (45m 43s):
Well, what if somebody, what if somebody writes a Bruce Friedman stole for me and you know, something along those lines and I, didn’t nothing of the sort, would that be liable?

2 (45m 57s):
That that would be liable if you did no such thing, because the only real defense to libel is the truth, you know, and they have to come in there and they have to prove that you did that, that you stole something. Got it. Now, if they printed that out on, on social media, what, what you will do at that time is you will do the following. You will file your lawsuit and have to ask them to take it. We’ll ask them to take it down if they don’t take it down. But the damages, the argument I would make in a case like that was it’s a business reputational damage. Yes, yes.

2 (46m 37s):
Okay. And that the court will see as more of a less proof there’s less proof needed. Yeah. Okay. Sure. If, if I’m just, you know, there’s a few areas like, like in the old days, I don’t know if it’s still, you know, but, but like if you questioned the chastity of a woman, okay. The law assume automatically that there was damages. The woman didn’t have to prove that, oh, I couldn’t get married to, you know, sir, Bridget, you know, I guess, whatever it is and not show or this and that, or, or the Duco lecture stir.

2 (47m 18s):
Okay. Whatever, because they slandered my reputation. The government assumed the courts assume that certain business reputation, the chassis of a woman that gives there is damage. Okay. Now there’s going to be, the other side is going to say, well, what was the damage? What business deals did you lose? But it’s going to be hard for you to prove, because it’s going to be hard for you to prove like, yeah, 10 people would have called me, but nine of them didn’t how do you know?

1 (47m 51s):
Yeah. So that’s a good point. That’s a really good point. It makes for a good argument makes for a good argument.

2 (47m 58s):
That’s their argument. But my reputation, my argument would be business reputation, know how do I can approve nine people didn’t call just because they saw it that, yeah. But we can see that, you know, it was a public post. That person has thousand followers. They sent this, they sat down and all of these things that there was, there was an issue, but at the same high you’ll have to, you’ll have to also be careful because, you know, in this country we have free speech. And by the way, one of the things that people have to understand, and they keep telling me, it’s like, oh my God, free speech, free speech, free speech. No, no, no. The free speech clause is there for the government not to pass any laws that restricts your speech.

2 (48m 41s):

1 (48m 42s):
Right. It’s right there in the first amendment. Yeah.

2 (48m 44s):
It’s for the government. It puts limitations on the government. Not the people doesn’t give you carte blanche, but at the same time, you can’t just come in there and basically, you know, liable or standard or someone’s reputation, right. By the way, another thing that you gotta know, it’s gotta be published with a third party. You and me talking to each other. And I say, bro, she stole my money from me. That’s not slander.

1 (49m 7s):
Okay. Okay. What are some of the basic business things people need to know?

2 (49m 13s):
Okay. So let’s, let’s this one I’m going to shift a little bit from someone that has got an ongoing business to someone that’s a brand new business. Okay. If you’re starting a brand new business, either as talent, okay. You were starting this business and nowadays, miss y’all, everyone incorporating in California and blah, blah, blah, this other stuff. And if they’re doing that, they come in there and they have to think about it. That I have to build this proper foundation. The proper foundation is very important and the proper foundation comes from getting a good accounting program, get QuickBooks, get whatever you want.

2 (49m 59s):
There’s all these cloud-based accounts right now. But get an accounting program spent about a day or two learning it. Okay. This way you need to know whether this is worth it you’re worth your time or not your time. Okay. In addition to that, you need to basically of course do 800 different things. The class I teach at UCLA is that developing a business plan class. And it’s a 11 week course. And it’s like a mini business school and we cover marketing and sales. And you know, by the way, they’re not the same thing. A lot of people come to computer marketing. I

1 (50m 34s):
Know that being a marketing guy, that’s one of my, that that’s that that’s a, that’s a sore spot with me. So thank you for bringing that up for sure.

2 (50m 43s):
Yeah. You know, we go through all of these aspects and one of the first things I say is make sure you get that good accounting program, learn the accounting program. It’s good to know. Be able to, it’s like having a baseball game where you don’t know how many strikes, how many balls, you know, how you know, what’s the score? What is the point? You know, just basically, you know, this, the guy who’s just swinging and swinging and swinging and no one’s keeping score, you got to keep score. And the accounting programs, what keeps score. Second thing is you gotta decide whether you want to form a corporation or an LLC or not. People ask me this all the time, especially new business people. Do I form it? Do I not form it? Do I form it? Do I not form? If you’re like a company that’s, that’s just starting or some of us have you’re doing production or you doing editing or something like that.

2 (51m 30s):
You have to look at a few things to decide whether you form a corporation or an LLC limited liability company. One of them is what are you doing? Okay. What is that? Is it dangerous? Could it have dangerous implications? Like if you edit something wrong, if you don’t make proper background, a backup of it, you lose the raw footage. You know, who’d you be sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars

1 (51m 59s):
In liability. The liability,

2 (52m 1s):
Is it large? Then you want to have that corporation. I have people that say I’m in the cupcake business. And I say, you’ve got to find a corporation right now and make sure you got insured up to the ears. One bad batch, one bad thing of butter. And you’ve got a party full of sick people

1 (52m 23s):
Or, or something or something that, that goes into a cockroach crawls into it or, or something poisonous ends up in it.

2 (52m 32s):
Exactly. So you gotta be careful. So if you’re in the food business form a corporation, get yourself insured. If you’re, if you’re hiring employees, you hire a company, you form a company. If you have partners, you form a company and,

1 (52m 51s):
And get a partnership agreement.

2 (52m 53s):
Oh no, not a partnership agreement. That’s where you gotta be very careful. Okay.

1 (52m 59s):
Oh, that’s right. You’re forming like forming a company, right?

2 (53m 2s):
Forming a company is a shareholders for a company or a corporation or an LLC. It’s memberships.

1 (53m 11s):

2 (53m 12s):
Now why is this the most dangerous, horrible thing in the world is, and this is what you have to avoid, like the plague. Okay. And that is the general partnership. Why? Because it’s unlimited liability for the conduct of the other person. So if you and I walk into Bob’s office and said, we’re going to starting a editing business and we can do whatever you want or blah, blah, blah, blah, this and that.

2 (53m 52s):
The other thing. Okay. And you walk out, both of you guys walk out, just basically having formed the corporation. I’m, haven’t done an LLC having that, anything you walk out and you like, you’re getting your part and your partner gets in that car, his in his car, I’ll get in my car. Then once you leave, I go back upstairs and I tell the guy, Hey, listen. I was thinking something. If you give us a hundred thousand dollars up front, we can start this business. And instead of giving it to you for $10,000 a job, we’ll do it for you for $8,000 a job.

2 (54m 34s):
And Bob, does it guess what Bruce, everything you own is also responsible for that a hundred thousand dollars because general partnerships, which is a just, and it’s easy to get into my friend. That’s it. You just present yourself as that as it’s business people together. That’s why one of the things I look at whenever I’m with someone is their business card. Yeah. I look at the business card and I see, okay, does this say incorporation? Does it say LLC? No nothing. Then I go check the state databases, find out if they’re a corporation.

2 (55m 15s):
I go, guess what? I got these two personally liable. And I got both of them liable. Even if one of them does it, by the way, it could be nothing. Even intentionally relationship. If the person is driving their car, while they’re doing something for the business crashes, the car killed someone and they only have $15,000 in insurance. They’re both liable. They would both be liable by the way, the insurance for what people don’t know is your car insurance for your regular car. Insurance is not good enough necessarily for business insurance. So it’s true. So they gotta be careful about that.

1 (55m 57s):
You gotta have business insurance. That’s another thing.

2 (55m 59s):
Well, you got to have business insurance. That’s another thing that protects you. And then there, you gotta hop. You know, if you’re going to be a bigger company directors and officers insurance, you know, to protect you from getting sued or, you know, if something happens, you know? So, so these are some of the things that you have to do. So going back to the thing, form a corporation, if you’re with anyone else, if you’re with poor man, LLC, you know, and, and I’m not going to go into all the tax ramifications with the LLC versus the corporation or the S-corp or a C Corp, but all this stuff that the California has. But again, I’m either an LLC or a corporation because that protects your personal assets to a certain extent.

2 (56m 42s):
Okay? You still have to follow all the corporate formalities and pay all the taxes and all these. Think of it. As additional insurance provided by the state for you to have less personal liability. And by having less liability, guess what happens? You get this sleep better.

1 (57m 2s):
You don’t wake up every two hours crying like a baby.

2 (57m 5s):
Well, he used to wake up every two hours if you have payroll, but that’s not as bad. Maybe every three hours, that’s sleeping. Think of it as sleeping. So now whether you form a business, you always form a corporation. Now, if you have a partner, okay, it was not a partner. It should mean when, if you have a another shareholder or if you go to being an investor, Charney needs to write it for someone that knows what they’re doing, because yeah, it’s good to say we’re 50, 50, but sometimes it’s 70 30 and things like that. And if I represent the one, that’s a 30% owner, I make sure certain things I need 71% of the shares before it passes.

2 (57m 55s):
Otherwise, guess what? The person that has 70% of the shares has more than 50% everything they want carries.

1 (58m 2s):
Yes. Yes. That’s absolutely true. Well, Nick, how can someone contact you about all that?

2 (58m 11s):
Oh, well we have several ways. Well, the, my email is, is one way. It’s Nick, N I C k@zarlawfirm.com. Okay. So Z a R L a w F I R m.com. So Nick has our law firm.com. You can also go to our website, czar law firm.com of course. And then my phone number. And again, I answer my phones myself, because it’s not even worth the headache of this going there. And we returned phone calls as fast as we can, unless I’m going to be able to try call them at 3:00 AM. No, let’s not do that. I had opposing counsel do that to me last, last week.

2 (58m 51s):
Bastard. Yeah, 1:45 AM. And I told him 1:45 AM. What the heck? You know, I said, and he at two 15, he texted me a second time. Fuck. And I just went off on him and that’s going to cost his client a lot of money. So what’s the, what’s the number? The phone number is four two four two four zero eight, seven 44. Call it again.

1 (59m 20s):
Call today. Operators are standing by God. So go ahead and say, say it again.

2 (59m 25s):
Four, two, four, two four zero eight seven four four.

1 (59m 31s):
Well, Nick, I know we could talk a lot more and I’m sure we will on a subsequent podcast, but I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk.

2 (59m 40s):
Okay. Thank you very much for having me Ruth and you know, everyone again, nothing is worse than nothing more expensive than hiring a lawyer than hiring a lawyer late. Just remember that.

1 (59m 50s):
Okay. Thanks, Nick. My broker tip today is part four of how to buy a website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer. The work begins. If you’re working with a broker, like say, oh, I don’t know, maybe adult site broker, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counter offer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them. A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go.

1 (1h 0m 31s):
If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day and other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing. You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask these pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself drop a sales agreement.

1 (1h 1m 12s):
I always tell my clients to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules. However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney change. Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we can do for our clients is to do a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all of the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow for instance, is, can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties.

1 (1h 1m 52s):
We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to entrepreneur, Jack Armstrong of Magnum Rings.

0 (1h 2m 2s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Nick Zargarpour. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Nina Saini.

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1 (1m 25s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale. At adult side broker, we are proud to offer one of the longest running adult review sites. The site is a true pioneer in the review space. It has built a reputation for its quality of reviews with over 28,000 full and original reviews. It’s a leader in this space. The side has a wide range of columns and photo galleries. The site is powered by a custom design CMS, which enables a staff of reviewers to request titles for review, have them emailed and tracked, and then submitted it as a review to the database. The flow is pretty seamless and it’s been rocking and rolling for many years.

1 (2m 5s):
The team at this site is filled with adult entertainment enthusiasts. Everyone works remotely. All of the sites marketing is organic, which is a tremendous opportunity for a buyer with a traffic network or who wants to purchase traffic all this for only $299,000. Now time for this week’s interview.

2 (2m 27s):
My guest today on the adult side, broker talk is Nina

1 (2m 30s):
Sky. Skyzone Nina. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

3 (2m 36s):
Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Now. Nina is global

2 (2m 40s):
Marketing director at concept to consumer collective. That’s a mouthful and she’s also the founder of media bitch. I love that name. My God, they, they are industry experts in sexual wellness and sex tech concept to consumer as a new sexual wellness and sex tech global collective talk about a tongue twister created to do, to deliver sex toy concepts and true sex tech innovation into reality, which it surely needs. The company was established by industry experts. The collective offers be spoke service to its clients. I’d love that word. Just bespoke. It’s used so much in the UK.

1 (3m 21s):
Let’s start out here. Tell me about yourself, Nina. Well,

3 (3m 26s):
I’ve been working in the adult space for about 16 years now and like res it was not intentional. I was working immediate prior and through a chance meeting, I was asked if I’d be interested in marketing, a product called the cone, which launched, I think back in 2005, and that was it. So I turned out, it turned out that I was very good at marketing sex toys who knew and I’ve stayed ever since. So from there, kind of then developed working with lots of different sex toy brands all over as well as kind of on online retailers, bricks and mortar stores.

3 (4m 7s):
W what, with a few porn companies, as well as being involved in organizing national consumer sexual lifestyle shows as well. So it’s kind of a whole range. So that’s kind of a, kind of my background in a nutshell,

2 (4m 23s):
What’d you do what’d you do before adult

3 (4m 25s):
I’ve worked in television? So I was working in television production. I, yes. So I was working in television production predominantly in the entertainment space. And then I set up media bitch in 2002 in between jobs, and then ended up working with quite a few clients in art, a bit of fashion, probably the most well-known is a guy called <inaudible>, who designed all the album covers for pink Floyd and led that plan. So I worked with organizing art shows for him, as well as handling their PR side of things as well. So that was really great from what, so what is media bitch?

3 (5m 7s):
It’s a consultancy that handles works in the adult space predominantly now, and we handle marketing and business development. So I kind of go in and see what the client wants, and then we kind of cater to helping them, whatever would their objectives are for that business. Okay. It’s very unique. So there’s not a kind of like a set, you know, like some companies say, right, we’re going to work with this company and this is what we’re going to do. And it’s the same for every client. So I worked very closely with my clients and I think I’ve been really lucky to work with some brilliant people, some brilliant companies. And I think that’s, what’s kept me in the adult space as well.

3 (5m 50s):
I think any consultancy

2 (5m 52s):
And I’m a consultant myself, I think any consultancy that has a preconceived notion, how they’re going to help a client before they ask the client how they can help them is making a huge mistake. The sad part about that is that that’s how most people do it. Absolutely.

3 (6m 10s):
And I think that, you know, I don’t take on clients just to say, oh, let’s just take them on it’s about whether I can actually do something for them. And sometimes clients aren’t ready. And so you have to say, well, actually, I don’t think you’re ready for this, for what they might have come to me for. And I’ll say, well, we’re not ready for this. I think you need to go back and do X, Y, Z, and then let’s touch base thereafter.

2 (6m 34s):
Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree. 300%. And I’ve done that so many times and refuse to take people’s money.

1 (6m 41s):
And I still do that today with the adult site broker,

2 (6m 44s):
I’ll go, you know what? You’re not ready to sell because of this. Maybe it’s because you’re leaving money on the table. And if you grow it a little bit more, it’s going to be worth something. Or it’s going to be worth a lot more. Or these people come to me with these platforms. I got an email like that today and oh, we built this great whatever, and now we want to sell it. I go, is it making money? They go, no, no, we just created it. We created a platform. People don’t buy platforms, they buy successful businesses. So I have to give them the bad news that, you know, what all this money and time you put into it, you missed a very important step bringing it to market.

2 (7m 33s):
And if you

1 (7m 33s):
Don’t bring it to market, guess

2 (7m 36s):
What? No buddy’s gone. I want it. Especially in 2021, I don’t want to S a, you invented the new sliced bread or whatever the hell, but I don’t think people would even know. So what, what prompted the creation of concept to consumer?

3 (7m 53s):
We just realized that obviously the market is changing and it’s adapting. So we wanted to create something that would best service this changing climate. And we also saw strength then kind of working together and kind of using everybody, bringing in their expertise. And they’ve all got different. We’ve all got different knowledge. We’ve got experiences and we’ve got resources. So it was pulling that talent together to create solutions and provide a wider breadth of services. So for example, you know, you get some companies and I’m sure you’re familiar with this breeze where, you know, you have one company, they all hire a PR agency. Then they’ll hire a social media agency. Then they’ll hire, you know, that, you know, their manufacturers is elsewhere and none of them are speaking to each other.

3 (8m 39s):
No. So there’s no consistency in brand. And there’s no kind of thought behind the action is just everybody going off. So one of the things that we wanted to do was kind of create an integrated marketing, well, not just marketing, that’s a service that will whichever whatever thing you, we would work with you and make sure all those working parts fit together.

2 (8m 60s):
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s, that makes all the sense in the world and you’re absolutely right. Most people do it wrong. So who is C to C collective aim, debt, existing industry firms, brand new startups, mainstream brands looking to move into the pleasure sector, or I’m going to guess all of the above and you’re absolutely right. Freestyle.

1 (9m 26s):
That’s amazing. Okay.

3 (9m 28s):
You know, it’s all about, I think, you know, we want to promote the adult and sexual wellness, MarTech market in a positive light. You know, I think what’s been great is as times progressed, it’s become more and more mainstream. I know when I started personally, you know, you would pick up the phone, you would try and sell, you know, talk about pleasure products and people just hang up on you. You know, they, it was completely different. And now obviously what is great is the market has evolved. You are seeing sexual wellness more in the mainstream space and it has become more accepted. So we want to aim to support the people who are already in the industry that may need help with Sarah various elements of their business.

3 (10m 13s):
And we also want to let people know that if they are looking to come into this space, that one we know that is potentially lucrative and that we can kind of help with startups and entrepreneurs, product designers, or patent holders and help them get their product to market. I mean, cause we’ve been there, you know, we’ve all collectively, you know, excuse the pun. We’ve all gone through this experience. You know, we’ve worked with start ups and you know, we’ve gone through. And I think, you know, personally, I feel really lucky to have worked with some great startup companies that you kind of get an all around experience of what it takes to take that product to market. Right. And as you mentioned earlier, it’s not as simple as saying I built it and they, you know, and they will come.

3 (10m 57s):
It’s now about brand positioning. It’s about marketing that and it’s reaching that end consumer. So I think from our experiences and, and our mistakes in the early days, you know, you can people who come to us, we’ll be able to take advantage of that experience. And because we’ve got those resources in house and because we’re all talking to each other in that truly Burt core and integrated way, you know, it’s all on the same, you know, we’ve all got the same consistency. We’re all working towards the same goal. Right. You know, let’s say that

2 (11m 32s):
I’m a mainstream brand. Cause I find this very interesting that you do this and I’m looking to move into pleasure products. How would you address that? And what would you do for me?

3 (11m 45s):
It would be kind of, obviously it would be looking at the kind of demographic I think initially to see where you want to, who are you targeting, what’s your end goal and then kind of create that brand positioning for you and the concepts behind it. And then obviously look at the range of products we do have because we do have a lot of patent technologies and cutting edge technologies that are incorporated in the product range that we have available. So we will talk you through that process and then help market that to the targeted demographic to bring it to market. I know that’s a really kind of condensed version and obviously it’s a lot more complicated, but it is, we do have a process to go through like how we like to do take a product to market.

3 (12m 35s):
So it is very much working with the client and what their ideals are, but also managing expectations or taking something to market because obviously the market is becoming more saturated and we are seeing more and more mainstream brands becoming, you know, coming into this space. But again, it’s about doing it, right. And why not go to people who, you know, been there, done it as opposed to going to somebody who might not have any experience in that space. Right. Right. I mean, in the past I’ve worked with companies that have asked me to meet with their award-winning PR companies who are getting paid, you know, very nicely indeed.

3 (13m 21s):
And then you go in and it becomes quite apparent that they don’t know how to position that product to the, to the mainstream market, to the end consumer, but they’re getting the business, but they’re not kind of, they, they don’t understand that it is a different beast.

2 (13m 38s):
Well, they don’t know anything about adult. No. Yeah, yeah. I get it. I get it.

1 (13m 45s):
So if I’m a mainstream brand, why

2 (13m 48s):
Would I move into pleasure products? I mean, I mean, what would, what would be my incentive?

3 (13m 54s):
Well, I think people are looking to diversify in terms of business. We do know it’s a very profitable, potentially profitable sector. And I think as wellness as a whole is becoming more mainstream and brands are looking at other ways to diversify is another revenue stream. So we are seeing more and more brands coming in. You just look at, you know, I’d only look at companies like goop, for example, or clothing brands or kind of pharmaceutical companies. So they are looking to diversify. And I think what’s happened with the pandemic is people are looking at different ways that isn’t necessarily tied into a bricks and mortar traditional way of doing business.

3 (14m 38s):
Tell us a little bit

2 (14m 40s):
About who you’ve been able to add as experts to the collective besides yourself. Of course,

3 (14m 46s):
We’ve got great experts on board from all over the world. So some of which are people like Dr. Sonny Rogers, who’s a very established sexologist. We’ve got Toon, Timmermans from kuru. Who’s brilliant with technology and online platforms in interactivity. We’ve got automobile Brian, who’s got a wealth of development, knowledge and injury industry insight. We’ve got Mark Phillips and tofa Taylor who bring on that LGBTQ experience and knowledge. So those are just some of the few people that we have. We have got more, which are to be announced in due course. So it’s the idea of constantly expanding in our collective of experts so we can help one help each other and help people within the industry and new businesses coming into this space.

2 (15m 37s):
Now you mentioned LGBTQ, it seems to me anyway, that there, that there’s just an amazing amount of potential for men’s sex health products.

3 (15m 52s):
Absolutely. I would agree with that. I think it’s been interesting because when I initially one of the earlier clients I worked with was a male sexual brand and it’s been quite interesting watching that transition from why people still giggle when it comes to male sex products. So, you know, that’s kind of adapting and I think also the whole gender lists marketing for sex toys. So obviously with the increase of, you know, gender fluid and binary identities, I think that’s another interesting market to watch in terms of how brands will then go on to talk to and communicate to those kinds of customers.

3 (16m 39s):
Now you seem to have

2 (16m 40s):
A mainstream marketing business involved with Derek block and his touchstone business. How does having a non-industry business support your overall concept?

3 (16m 51s):
Well, actually with Derek and his business, they he’s got an ex actually got an extensive background and knowledge in the adult space. So we’ve known him for about 12 years and he’s been buying and sourcing products quietly and discreetly for one of the biggest U S adult businesses. He’s got a fantastic team and his speciality is the brand building and bringing new insight and creative skills outside of the market. So it’s kind of like a marriage, I think, you know, bringing that fresh high aspect and then combining it with our adult experience. So his development is a kind of like brand first where you build out a strong sustained and a strong vision, which I think is invaluable.

3 (17m 35s):
And especially if you want a brand to last in this market, you know, and have that potential to grow.

2 (17m 41s):
Okay. Now is the concept of C to C based around offering a complete service and how so

3 (17m 49s):
It’s both. So yes is the easy answer on that one. We are a fully integrated business, so we can take a kind of any idea and help create, make that into a reality. So what we’ve got in house is in-house designers, product engineers, Brandon concept, creatives, marketing professionals, web, and e-commerce specialists, as well as all of the manufacturing capabilities that our wing power provides. Well, who’s obviously one of our partners we’ve got post-production. We can help with logistics, warehousing, fulfillment, and more, you know, we want this to be, will inclusive, and we’ve got lots of people and service providers involved in the business, which is why we’re actively building our power expert advisory panel with like-minded people.

3 (18m 36s):
And we’re happy to talk to anybody that might want to talk to us.

2 (18m 40s):
That’s awesome.

3 (18m 41s):
You know, I think there’s enough space for all of us and it’s about sharing the love. It’s not just about mine and I’m not going to help you. You know, I think those days are gone and I think it’s about adapting and helping each other for sustainability of the industry.

2 (18m 58s):
Yeah. And I think, you know, this industry has always kind of been that way we’re competitors to work together. So it’s a, it’s kind of a big kumbaya thing.

3 (19m 9s):
I think it’s been great. I mean, I absolutely love working in the adult industry. I’ve got fantastic friends from all over the world and you know, and the fact that we’re still friends in, you know, over the 16 year period, at least for myself, and you know, that you can pick up the phone, doesn’t matter how long it’s been that you’ve seen each other. It’s just like, like you just pick up where you left off.

2 (19m 32s):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s why not having trade shows has been tough because I tell people that every time there’s a trade show, it’s like a family reunion and yeah. Yeah. I miss my family. I miss my family.

3 (19m 47s):
I miss the hugs. Yes. Yes.

2 (19m 50s):
I’m, I’m a big, I’m a big hugger. So yeah, I, I, I definitely miss that. I hope those come back anyway. So will a client need to have a lot of money to bring an idea that they sketched out on a coaster, say to market through your services?

3 (20m 11s):
I think our services is, you know, it’s exceedingly competitive, we’re targeted, we’re focused, we’re focused. Unlike a lot of startups spend, you know, we’ll be looking, you know, companies already invest considerable amounts to various companies to get to that point. And none of it is integrated and complimentary. So I think with the collective, you know, offering that integrated complimentary service, we do have very clear and open and straightforward price. And we want to have long-term strategic relationship with our clients and we want them to succeed. You know, I always say it’s not just about succeeding for the client. I want to succeed for us as well.

3 (20m 52s):
So we’re just as invested in the success of our clients as they are.

2 (20m 58s):
Okay. Well, let’s say, you know, they did jot this idea out on a, on a placemat or on a

4 (21m 5s):
Coaster or a, or a, or

2 (21m 9s):
What they put their beer on and they don’t have money. Do you, can you address that as well? Do you, do you have investment people?

3 (21m 19s):
It is something we’re looking to develop as having an investment fund as well. So yeah. Watch this space.

2 (21m 26s):
Oh, you got it. I will. I definitely will. Now let’s say a client wants to just cherry pick from the services you offer. If, if he or she already has some experience on board, can they do that?

3 (21m 41s):
Absolutely. I mean, if somebody wants just one element of what we’re offering, that is absolutely fine, we can do that. We will, we will quite for that particular service that they’re after and scope out the work that needed for that service. So the idea is, is wherever you are on that journey with your product or your brand, we can integrate and support that journey.

2 (22m 2s):
Okay. Okay. Now let’s say a mainstream brand that has never worked in adult creates a range of sex toys for it. How do you think existing players in the adult market would react?

3 (22m 17s):
It’s already happening first and foremost. So I think it’s a case now for us to adapt to what’s already happening. We can’t stop, you know, the train’s already left the platform, it’s going through the tunnel it’s happening. So it’s a case of us now adapting to that. So we can either go with it or be left behind, you know, we can jump on that train with we’re left on the platform. So I think there’s an opportunity for all of us to help and support and expand the reach that will help all of us capitalize on the opportunities that are coming from this kind of mainstream exposure.

2 (22m 54s):
Okay. Okay. Maybe you can give me some examples of some, if you can, some a and it doesn’t have to just be people that you’ve worked with of some mainstream companies that have, that have jumped into the, into the pleasure product space and what their level of success was. Well,

3 (23m 14s):
I think it’s at the moment it’s difficult because we’re seeing a lot of companies launch. So I would have to do some digging on terms of how that is for them, because I think sometimes what happens is, is you see a lot of major exposure, but that doesn’t necessarily convert or translate into sales. So I’d be interested to see in about 12 months where these brands are.

2 (23m 38s):
Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Now with different clients within a small market, how are you going to ensure confidentiality?

3 (23m 48s):
Confidentiality has always been key to what we’ve all done, whether it’s individually or collectively, I think it’s really important and it’s important to our clients that we keep that confidentiality. So we just, you know, we do do we sign NDAs at the onset of discussions and by therefore we honor that and make sure that everything is kept. We do not share any information with the party businesses and all agreements will be contracted in us or UK law. Okay. So let’s say

2 (24m 23s):
Today, I came to you and I said, okay, Nina, I’ve got this idea for a product and I’m, I’ve never done this before. Okay. Take me through the steps of how the collective would help me start get going, and then take it to market. I

3 (24m 44s):
Think it would be a case of just discussing with you breeze in terms of, it will be a case of what the product is. Who are you looking to reach? What kind of branding you have. So I think a lot of it is difficult. Again, like I said earlier, I don’t want to give you a kind of blanket on answer. No, and I’m not, I’m not looking for a cookie cutter answer. Let’s let’s say, let’s say

2 (25m 6s):
I came up with a really cool new men sex toy. Okay. And it’s, it’s something that’s different from anything else out there. And I just want your guidance as to, okay, how should we move forward? Maybe you can tell me, well, what would the questions be? What would you ask me about?

3 (25m 27s):
I would love to look at one the products and see if there’s any ways that we can improve it in terms of technology based stuff that can improve, you know, create an even better version of the product would have look at the drawings that you have. And I’d also be interested in saying, well, what are your USP’s? Why is this product different to anything else you’ve got out there on the market? Who are you targeting? You know, and look at things with you in terms of, you know, what your ideas are around the brand and the product, and who do you want to target? And then go work through that in terms of, you know, the phase one of launching one product, are you looking to launch further products? You know, how far are you with your branding, your website, your B2B, and your B to C communications, are you selling to the end consumer or are you looking for distribution?

3 (26m 17s):
So it would be a lovely long conversation of understanding what your needs are as a client. And then I’ll be able to provide you with kind of Pacific ideas regarding your product and how we can take that to market.

2 (26m 31s):
Do you guys have like a questionnaire that is kind of good? Good. Okay. That’s great. All right. Now, why do you think the market needs a collective like this?

3 (26m 44s):
As I mentioned earlier, I think, you know, times are changing and I think our industry needs to adapt to thrive. You know, we’re collective of industry experts. Who’ve worked in this space for many, many years, so we can all, we all bring our strengths and we can offer a variety of different services, you know, from the people that have the experience and have the knowledge, you know, they’ve done, they’ve walked those steps themselves. So if one of these services that we offer can help a business, then it, that is brilliant. You know, that’s what we want to do. Obviously clients can pick and choose what they need help with. And we have an option for them. You know, there are lots of agencies out there, but I kind of feel like with the collective, we offer something different.

3 (27m 27s):
You know, we do have those resources. We do have manufacturing facilities. We do have patient technologies. You know, we have got the marketing and merchandising arm of the business as well. So it’s different to, again, it goes back to what I said earlier about rather than hiring six different agencies to do different things. You’ve got this with the collective, you’ve got this one stop shop as it were that caters, and that can cater across a range of services for the client.

2 (28m 0s):
What unique technologies and patents can you offer clients?

3 (28m 5s):
Okay. So we’ve got quite a few technology. We have time. So we’ve got things like I’m going to have to check my list here. So we’ve got some wing power who are our manufacturing arm. They’ve got a range of unique technologies and patrons, and they are, have a factory based in China. So they’ve got various technologies like body resonating technologies, touch sensors, data app services. I’m trying to think now what else I’ve got on my list, multiple bullet function. So we’ve got quite a few different technologies that we have patents too, that are unique to us.

3 (28m 51s):
And obviously brand brands or clients working with us would have access to those technologies.

2 (28m 57s):
Interactive type of products seemed to be the real future where a cam girl can, can get on cam. And she has a device and the man has a device or the man and the man or the woman and the woman, whatever it is, you know, and I know there’s been some of that, but it seems to be an area where there’s just so much potential. Talk a little bit about that market, where it’s at and where do you think it’s going? I

3 (29m 32s):
Think it’s an exciting one to watch because obviously I still believe it’s kind of at the early stages. So I think there’s further development there and further scope to kind of create better products that connect. And it’s very hot at the moment in terms of obviously people being away from their loved ones during the pandemic and connecting. So we have got quite a few things that we’re working on behind the scenes to kind of make, offer a better offering of those services. So I think we’ll see more and more of those type products where people can interact with AR or VR, or as you said over the internet through webcams or POL and they’re watching.

3 (30m 17s):
So I think we’ll see more and more technology going that way.

2 (30m 21s):
Do you think that’s the future of sex tech?

3 (30m 25s):
I think it’s one of the ways of going forward with sex tech. I don’t think it’s the only way, but I think that more and more people are open to going, you know, trying that technology. And I think there will be what’s. I think that I think there will be a big demand for it. Absolutely.

2 (30m 43s):
What are innovations are happening in sex tech? Because I’m more of an internet guy, I’ll be the first to admit it. I deal mainly with people with content sites and the times that I’ve been able to go to product shows and the like, it’s always been fascinating to see what’s new. We had seen, we had, you know, virtual AVN recently CES, which I think has some sex tech in it. Now, what have you seen that’s?

3 (31m 15s):
Well, I can tell you, we’ve got an exciting range of products in house that really excites me. And I think, but yeah, I think we’ve got a really exciting range of products in terms of like where technology is going and what we can do. And I think also people are becoming more concerned with, you know, the ethical side of products as well. So I think that’s going to be an interesting one to watch. And obviously the one we touched on earlier, the advance of kind of internet connectivity and yeah. The internet. So I think those are kind of the key ones I would kind of be looking at. I mean, obviously I’m going to be biased with your breeze and say, we’ve got a fantastic range of products.

3 (31m 59s):
I haven’t seen anything like those on the market. You need to come and talk to us. I think those would probably be the key points that I would kind of highlight in terms of where we’re going in terms of sex tag.

2 (32m 11s):
Okay. Any of those you can talk about? Oh, well

3 (32m 16s):
I think we’ve got a whole range of products on lights. So for example, we’ve got things that are, you know, voice controlled app controlled music, controlled, remote controlled, we’ve got things that heat up temperature control multimodal has various touch senses products that vibrate not just in this concentrated area, but wider. There’s a lot of technologies that we have. Yeah. I mean, we do have kind of, we’ve touched on them on our website C to C collected.com. So there’s more information there if anybody wants to kind of go more details. But what I would say is, come and talk to us,

2 (32m 55s):
You know, one, one thing that I’ve been hearing about lately, which is big, obviously with any connected devices, security, how do you guys address that?

3 (33m 6s):
Something that we are kind of looking to improve to sort of, because obviously one of the things we do is we’re not looking to share data with the parties. So it’s kind of, I think it’s kind of making the customer more aware of and being more transparent and honest. So it’s kind of fundamentally the customer’s choice to switch on that day to accessibility or turn it off. But I think the key thing is as being transparent, so it’s not being done secretly, I think what’s gone wrong in the past has been the lack of transparency or people haven’t realized that that data is being shared. Yeah. But I was talking more

2 (33m 44s):
About security in terms of, I’ve actually heard of situations where hackers have been able to access a women’s pocket pals and you know, actually control them and, and make them go at amazing speeds and things like that. How are you addressing things like that? Well,

3 (34m 8s):
Data security is something we’re taking very importantly. So that is something we are working on. But I I’ll be honest with you, Bruce. I hadn’t heard that.

2 (34m 16s):
Oh yeah. Oh, it’s out there.

3 (34m 18s):
I haven’t heard that. I got to do some digging on that one

2 (34m 21s):
With the interactive products. There’ve been hackers who have taken over, over people’s devices. It’s, it’s pretty wild, but well, welcome to 2021, right?

3 (34m 32s):
Yeah, no tray. I mean, obviously we take anything like that seriously. So it’s kind of, you know, working to constantly improve and to make sure that kind of thing doesn’t happen. And obviously that the customer feels comfortable. Yes. When they’re buying those types of products that they, their data is safe and, you know, with the hackability that limits, those kind of problems.

2 (34m 58s):
Absolutely. Now how will you address each client’s potential needs and give them a unique service? It’s

3 (35m 6s):
Kind of, you know, as we discussed earlier, it’s kind of speaking to them and kind of working out what it is that the client wants. We ha we do have a well-structured, you know, fight tested five step collaboration process. So, you know, this normally starts, as I said earlier, with discovery and mapping, trying to understand the client’s business, what their vision is. And then that will kind of help us then define a scope of work and the deliverables, and it’s kind of working together. So it’s not kind of like here it is the end goodbye, you know, it’s kind of that constant collaboration with each other. So we kind of work with the clients is define the scope of work, the deliverables, and then discuss that with the client and then kind of create that final proposal or adaptable proposal.

3 (35m 55s):
Should I say to assure that everybody’s aligned and on the same page, it’s all about being a partner. Sorry. It is absolutely. So it’s, you know, again, being transparent and you know, the client knowing in advance, what they can expect and what the costs are involved. There’s no kind of hidden secrets. So it’s all about communicating at every stage of the process with clearly identified milestones. You know, our strength really is that herb is a collective of these industry experts. You know, it’s not just one person saying, okay, this is what we’re going to do. It’s all of us kind of thinking of how we can help the client and what else we can bring to that business.

2 (36m 40s):
Right. Fantastic. Well, Hey, Nina, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do the scan really soon. My broker

1 (36m 49s):
Tip today is part three of how to buy a website. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you’ve either reached the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site, the broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years. That’s up to date if it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, getting username and password for the site so that you can review the content, ask how often the site is updated, get some history on the site. How long has it been in business, the story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content and how much of it is current technologies like 4k, find out if all of the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller.

1 (37m 45s):
If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the content is on find out how much the content costs to produce and what the current cost to production is. Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the owner, do they do the shooting themselves or did they hire someone to do it? And if there’s an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what is the retention rate on the site and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic ask for Google analytics access.

1 (38m 25s):
So you can see where the traffic comes from. This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to industry attorney, Nick, zap, gas, poor,

0 (38m 43s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Nina Saini. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult star, content creator, podcast hostess and comedian Kate Kennedy.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale that adult site broker, we have just listed five amazing adult domains per sale. Any of these domains can be used to build a very successful and brandable website to domains are sexo.com and porn flicks.com listed@fivemilliondollarseachask.com listed at $4.25 million.

0 (1m 48s):
stud.com listed a $2.95 million and strip cam.com for only $695,000. For more information, contact us@adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview.

1 (2m 6s):
My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Kate Kennedy hostess of the podcast cam girl Chronicles on I’m life. Kate, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank

2 (2m 17s):
You so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

1 (2m 20s):
I’m excited to have you now. Kate is a comedian, a podcast host content creator and retired adult film star. And as I just mentioned, she hosts the podcast cam girl Chronicles presented by I’m lying, which is an inside look at the wild and wacky world of online cam modeling. Okay. Worked as a professional porn star, both in front of and behind the camera from 2017 to 2020. That was the last year. And she retired then from studio work to focus on comedy and creating her own content on only fans where she is in the top 1%. Wow.

1 (2m 59s):
Congratulations. Thank you.

2 (3m 1s):
It’s the only time we will probably ever be in the 1%,

1 (3m 6s):
Give yourself some credit now, as she lives in LA with her three legged dogs, squeegee

2 (3m 12s):
Hmm. May or may not interrupt us at some point. We’ll see. She’s a little sleepy. I gave her some toys, so we’ll see.

1 (3m 19s):
I’ve got four. So I’m more likely to get interrupted. You can connect with her at L I N K T R dot E forward slash the G Kennedy with two N’s cam girl Chronicles is an entertaining peek behind the scenes of the world of cam. This 10 episode series is fast paced and hilarious with great stories, fun features, and plenty of surprises. Plus play along with munch madness, their weekly countdown@camgirlpod.com. Exactly how it’s spelled, where you decide the winner cam girl Chronicles is good, clean, dirty fund made fresh every Sunday.

1 (4m 3s):
So Kate, tell me besides what I just described, what’s your new podcast about?

2 (4m 11s):
Yeah, I mean, it’s pretty much what we described. I’m a lot more than that. It’s crazy. I interviewed cam girls from all over the world, which is so fascinating. I’m up at like 6:00 AM to talk to girls in Bucharest every day and like Columbia, all these different, crazy places. And it’s just so interesting to get to talk to sex workers from all over the world and find kind of like our own like commonalities between what sex work is like. And also just their unique perspectives. I really think that even as progressive as most sex workers are in like the U S and stuff, we still like kind of have a little bias about sex workers overseas.

2 (4m 54s):
And it’s just so interesting to really talk to these people that are from, you know, like places I’ve never heard of. I’ve never been to. And they’re just so funny and cool and fucking smart and interesting. And I want to travel all over the world and hanging out with them now. So it’s really fun. We do a bunch of different features. A lot of it’s crazy. I write these little like weird daily show style, sex news segments every week, which are so fun that we include in this the show. So it’s just been the best experience getting to create the show. And I’m really, really proud of it. What have some

1 (5m 27s):
Of your favorite guests been so far? If I could put you on the spot? Oh

2 (5m 32s):
Man. Okay. I have to shout out Mia. Her I’m live name is sweet. Kiss Brazil. She is a fucking rock star. Social media just like pushes the show. She’s wonderful. I mean, you can not listen to her and not be like this girl’s the coolest ever. So she’s been amazing. All of the girls who’ve gotten to talk to all of the people at that work at the studios because they work in, especially in Romania and studios. Yes. Like they go to these places that really, they look like a Vegas casino. Like, it looks like you’re at the aria or like the Bellagio. And they’re in these beautiful environments where they have like people handling the equipment to nail lady, his hair, ladies, makeup ladies.

2 (6m 14s):
They have a whole commissary. I’m like, I want to cam here, but they’ve all just been so fun. They’ve all brought like different things to the table. And it’s been really, really cool to get, to get to know them.

1 (6m 27s):
Yeah. We did a, we did a segment on, on studios with Aandra who, who runs one of the, one of the studios there. Now, what advice do you have for interviewing sex workers? Maybe you can tell me because I do that a lot.

2 (6m 44s):
Yeah. I’m actually working on a piece right now because I doing this project kind of inspired me to ask more questions because I’ve given of man, I love talking about myself. So I’ve probably given hundreds of interviews at this point, but like it started making me think about like, what questions do I get asked? What questions do I like or questions do I not? And so like, I really, I asked Twitter just like openly, like, what are your least favorite questions that you get asked in an interview? And how would you change them? Right. You know? Cause like a lot of times you get asked about like, what were you like in high school? Or how did you lose your virginity? And it’s like, okay, that’s kind of icky. Right? Like I was like under, usually that’s not cool to ask or like your family and stuff.

2 (7m 26s):
Like, you know, I like my, the whole inspiration for that was like, I don’t like being asked about my family. Cause that feels really personal and it’s known, you know, it’s not their thing. So I kind of like asked them and they, I got such good response as about like, oh, I would rather be asked about this or that. And so I think the way to do it and I will be publishing this piece really soon is just to, I mean, first of all, cause you asked when we were setting up this interview as well. Like what do you want to talk about? What questions you want? Like ask us because we know what we want to talk about. We know are comfortable talking about, and we’re pretty good at setting boundaries. Cause you have to be, you learned that really fast and in sex work.

2 (8m 7s):
So, you know, it’s just kind of stuff like that. And I’ve gotten such good responses. I’m really excited to get to share them with everybody. So

1 (8m 14s):
Give me a couple of examples and I am expecting you to send a, send a link to that article to me so I can read it. But what are some examples of questions people want to be asked? And then some, some examples of questions people don’t like to be asked,

2 (8m 30s):
Okay, I’m pulling this up right now. Like on my phone because it did not have this like du, du, du, du, du, du two jeopardy theme song in the back. All of my shit posts that I put on Twitter. Why do I do this to myself? I don’t know. I know because I have thoughts about that Meghan Markle interview and I felt the need to tweet about it. Like 10 times last night someone was like, are you okay? And I was like, absolutely not. Didn’t everybody

1 (9m 2s):
Have thoughts about Megan Markle on that interview, by the way, we’re we’re recording this. We’re recording this in March right after the interviews. So just in case people are going wait, that was two months ago.

2 (9m 14s):
Oh yes. Okay. So this is a really good one. So I pulled up this thread. Okay. A lot of times people will ask you, like, what are your horror stories? What’s your worst customer or your worst client or worst scene. And it’s like, stop asking me to tell on people who pay my bills and who’s gonna want to relive that exactly asked me who my best or my most memorable was. Right. Like ask me who my favorite was. Who’s the funniest. Let’s see. How did you lose your Virginia? That one cropped up a bunch of times. People really don’t like being asked that, oh, this was a big one. And this only happened to me a couple of times, but I, couple of people said that interviewers have literally asked them if they found them attractive and would they fuck them?

2 (9m 58s):
Which like, okay, no, like that’s so awkward. What’s your favorite position? Cause that’s just a boring one. Like there’s like one cute answer to that. And it’s CEO and it’s been done to death. Mine is the one where you just like slammed my face into the pillow and I can’t breathe. That’s my favorite one. Oh, who’s your favorite performer to work with? That’s a really loaded one. Right? Because like whoever else you’ve worked with, if they are getting

3 (10m 32s):
Is going to feel

2 (10m 33s):
Exactly. And also every pro porn performer is going to say man, Wolfer era because that’s always the answer. How did you start porn or why? Which I understand that a good one or a bad one. That’s a bad one. And I understand why people don’t like it because there’s, for me, especially like there are a thousand reasons, like there’s, it gets such a complicated, nuanced issue, right? Like I could talk about like unfair labor and hiring practices. I could talk about how all labor under capitalism is inherently exploitive. And if you’re working in a coal mine, you’re also selling your body. Right? Like I could also talk about like I liked sex.

2 (11m 14s):
And at the end of the day, I didn’t want to work a nine to five or I wanted, you know, the freedom. So there’s so many different answers to that. That it’s not, you know, let’s see. Who’s your favorite person to work with? How’d you lose your virginity. Those were big wins. I got a lot of responses on this.

1 (11m 31s):
So Kate, how did you lose your, no, I’m not going to ask you that. What were some of the highlights of your performing career in gain an adult video?

2 (11m 46s):
Oh man. I mean like all of it was really fun. I had a blast and we’re coming up on my we’re like four or five days from my retirement anniversary, which is insane. I can’t believe it’s been a year. I retired early because of COVID like, whenever people are like, why did you retire? Like, cause COVID like, I shot my last scene. And then we went into lockdown the next day and it will three weeks later I turned 26 and I was like, wait a second. Like we need to start thinking about something else because this isn’t gonna keep going. And I don’t want to get my tits done. I’m not a teenager anymore.

2 (12m 26s):
I am, I can no longer convincingly play one. So, you know, like, but all of them all, they’re so fun. I really got the opportunity to work for a lot of amazing companies, a lot of great directors with a lot of really cool people. And so, you know, like I would say highlights where I loved working for kink.com. I worked for them many, many times. I’ve had several hoodies from them. They’re great. Love them. And just, I mean, everyone, I really didn’t have like maybe one or two, not great experiences, but I really never had a bad one. I love graffiti.

1 (13m 4s):
I won’t ask you what your worst experiences were. Cause that was on the list. Okay. So what are some of the craziest stories you’ve heard in these interviews? You’ve done?

2 (13m 17s):
Oh my God. There’s been so many and they’re so fun and I’m so glad the girls are like, feel safe. Sharing them with us. My favorite ones so far has been a guy that liked to get a dress up in laundry with a pony butt plug and dance around stripping to the bare necessities from the jungle book. I want that guy in my cam room. That would be so much fun.

1 (13m 45s):
Yeah. He sounds like a, like a real card. What are some like what are some other stories?

2 (13m 51s):
Oh man. Let’s see. There’s a guy that likes to put frozen bananas in his butt hole. That was a funny one. I heard one today. That absolutely shocked me to my core this year. Wait a minute,

1 (14m 4s):
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Something shocked you. And you worked in adult for, you worked in an adult for four years and, and you cam okay, go ahead.

2 (14m 14s):
This girl today, this morning, and this is like eight o’clock in the morning. Mind you, and I’m not a morning person. So like hearing these stories, this early is crazy, but she, do you remember the mentors and diet Coke challenge? Okay. This guy did the Mentos and diet Coke challenge and put the bottle in his butthole and my face. I mean, you can die do it like that can kill you. Like that was, I literally was like, is he okay? Like I need to talk to him now.

1 (14m 45s):
I guess nothing shocks me. I was, I was, I was trying to picture it going. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Not something I do

2 (14m 54s):
Me neither. Not something anyone should do. I want to make that really clear. I did that in this podcast was like, seriously, the velocity of that liquid can rupture your colon and kill you. Please don’t do that. Well, I don’t

1 (15m 5s):
Like things in my butthole, but then again, I’m, you know, I like girls, what can I say? So what have you learned about camming around the world? I

2 (15m 16s):
Think the biggest thing has just been how, cause I don’t like to have like an American centric worldview. I really like to like break myself out of that. But I guess just how progressive attitudes towards sex work in other parts of the world are that we don’t really understand here in the us. Like we, when I talked to these girls that are working at these studios and like Romania and Columbia, like we can’t even have studios like that here it’s considered a brothel. Like it would be illegal to have something like that. And they there’s some studios in the states. There’s a couple, but it’s really, really hard to legally be able to do that. And I know people that own a couple. Yeah. And it’s like, even in like Nevada, if you want to do something like that, you technically need like a brothel license.

2 (16m 2s):
That’s interesting because

1 (16m 4s):
Cause I used to work with a cam company that had a studio in Nevada. I never, I never asked them if they had a brothel license.

2 (16m 12s):
Yeah. There’s a bunch of like legal issues and talking to like both the owners of the cam companies and then other people that are also just like in Theodore industry about the logistics of doing that. There’s so much more red tape here. And also like the way that their, the way their peers understand, like especially online sex work is so different in other parts of the world, like right now, Columbia is the largest growing cam market in the world and they have such a progress. And it’s so fascinating because right, this is this like south American country that’s heavily Catholic. And yet they have this incredibly progressive view of sex work.

2 (16m 53s):
Like I have never met a Colombian Kim model whose family did not a thousand percent support them. Sure. Is she, is

1 (17m 0s):
She a thousand percent supports that?

2 (17m 3s):
Exactly. Which is, I mean like totally fine. We, you know, we talk about sex work. It’s really one of the only industries where you can make a very good living without those high barriers of entry, like a university degree or networking or inherited wealth. And I mean, I really think that the U S is falling behind on this run.

1 (17m 24s):
I mean, here in Thailand, you can’t imagine how many millions of people are supported by a prostitution here. I mean, they send their money home to their families. Absolutely. And it’s accepted, it’s still not legal, it’s accepted. And as far as the U S goes to U S is so behind so many areas, I can’t even begin to tell you when the more I’m in different parts of the world, the more I realize how far behind we’ve fallen in, in all these areas. And one area really is the whole idea of morals, you know?

1 (18m 9s):
Yeah. In Columbia, they’re Catholic, but they’re not evangelicals.

2 (18m 13s):
It’s not, it doesn’t have that puritanical bent to it. But so much of us culture has that I think really sets us back socially and economically so far, especially in terms of like women’s rights and liberation. I mean it’s international women’s day as we’re recording this. Yes.

1 (18m 33s):
Happy international women’s day.

2 (18m 35s):
Thank you. Nobody has grabbed my pussy all day, so I don’t even know what we’re supposed to be celebrating, but that’s fine.

1 (18m 46s):
So, so what, what’s it like working with

2 (18m 50s):
Lot? It’s been wonderful. They have been so supportive of this project. They’ve really let us do so much of what we wanted to design the show. Like it, I mean, it’s been such a cool experience to really get to go in and say like, we’re going to do the show about sex work by sex workers, by people that understand this industry and like to get to write on this show. I mean, I put in so many hours of work on the show every week, not just interviewing, but the writing and the jokes and all of the stuff that goes into it. And like just to see them be so happy with it and also to let us design it in that way has just been incredible.

2 (19m 31s):
They’ve been so great. And they’ve supported the show so wonderfully with getting us the girls to interview and listening to our ideas. We just had a meeting today about the last episode of the first season that went really well. So it was very exciting and yeah, they’ve been wonderful,

1 (19m 48s):
Great company. I’ve got lots and lots of friends over there in my Israeli homeys. So what goes into writing and creating a show like yours

2 (19m 60s):
So much? Like it’s so much of me just sitting at my computer, like pulling up the online thesaurus, like looking up like different terms for sex. Like I, I have so many bookmarks on my computer now that I’m sure like the FBI is going to be pounding down my door any day. Now it’s a lot. I mean, between me and like romaine who’s the producer and the editors and everyone that lays down the different pieces of the audio to like the girls that are willing to speak to us and take hours out of their day to do so, which we’re incredibly grateful for. Like it’s such a team effort and it really is such a labor of love because we love doing it.

2 (20m 43s):
I mean, I sit and write these like dumb little daily show, style news for hours. And I know my life would be so much easier if I didn’t insist on writing all of them as like tongue twisters, but I, Kate Kennedy adores alliteration. That’s my joke. But yeah, it’s, it’s been so much fun. I get to do so much research and put just, it’s just, it’s so cool. It’s just so much fun. I it’s a lot of work, but I absolutely adore every single second of it. And I hate getting up in the morning, hate it. And I am willing to wake up at 6:00 AM to do this. Like there’s very little else. I’m willing to wake up at 6:00 AM for almost nothing.

2 (21m 25s):
I literally cannot name anything else. Wait

1 (21m 28s):
Until you get older, like me, it’ll be a,

2 (21m 31s):
My mom keeps saying that and it has not happened yet. Well,

1 (21m 36s):

2 (21m 38s):
Yeah. I’m almost 27. My birthday is coming up.

1 (21m 40s):
Oh God. Yeah. Well, you’ve got a long way to go. Girl just started happening to me and I turned 63 in October. So what’s been the biggest challenge creating the podcast.

2 (21m 55s):
The time difference sucks. I live, I live in LA, there are producers in New York, so, and then Bucharest is 10 hours ahead of LA. So I’m getting up at 6:00 AM, super rough, you know, good personal challenge for me. I think just kind of, to me the biggest thing, anytime I’m doing anything when in sex work or involving sex workers, but also has like a mainstream media bent to it, is that just, I want to portray these people honestly, and in the way that they want to be, because I think that that’s so rare.

2 (22m 36s):
I think it’s so uncommon in that they get to tell their own stories. And so that’s just been my kind of like guiding light Maxim in doing this is that I really care about the way that these girls are portrayed and I really care that they’re portrayed honestly, and in the way that they want to be. So I put a lot of pressure on myself to do so, because I know how I feel when I, you know, see media that doesn’t portray sex work in a real or honest light. So, you know, but I think we’ve been able to do that. So it’s paid off. Absolutely.

1 (23m 15s):
Well, and then you’re the perfect host for this show because you do it yourself.

2 (23m 21s):
Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, I think that that experience and like, I’ve been really honest the whole time. Like I have done cam, I was not very good at camming. Like I don’t consider that a strength of mine. These girls are much better at it than I probably will ever be, but I do understand what they go through on a regular basis. I know what it’s like to be doing a show for hours on end and be bored and not have anyone in your room and feel bad and you know, and try to have to stick it out. I mean, these girls have an incredible work ethic and I really want to highlight that. Yeah. And I think

1 (23m 59s):
That, I think the ones overseas, if you want to talk about work ethic, I think they, they always, people overseas always have a better work ethic than Americans.

2 (24m 9s):
They really do. There’s a reason we’re falling behind in manufacturing, our own porn, our own cars, our own anything. There is a very good reason.

3 (24m 18s):
Indeed. What’s

1 (24m 19s):
The, what’s been the biggest surprise so far

2 (24m 23s):
I think. And this is going to sound terrible because I’m going to come from my own biased standpoint. Right. I love breaking down my biases. Like I think that’s so important. I think I know what’s coming, but go ahead. Yeah. It’s just how fucking cool these girls are. They’re so funny. They’re so smart. They work so hard. They’re sweet. They’re cool. I want to hang out with them. Like I kind of do this joke where, you know, you know, like the scariest stripper in a strip club. Cause I used to be a stripper as well. The scariest stripper in the strip club is always like six feet tall and blonde and her name is always Svetlana and she’s fucking terrifying, right? Like Russian strippers are the scariest fucking people on the planet.

2 (25m 4s):
Like do not fuck with that.

4 (25m 6s):
I will break you literally,

2 (25m 9s):
She will either break you or she will pee in your bag, like, which is a thing that happens in strip clubs. But like I it’s been so rewarding to be able to break down that bias for myself. And hopefully for people that listen to this show of that, like I think we as sex workers, if we want to really fight for things like decriminalization and equal rights and you know, this and to all of the nastiness that goes on around the way that like the mainstream world talks about sex workers, like we have to be United, we have to work together. And so getting to know these girls has just been an incredible experience. Like again, I, I just want to go hang out with them like, wow.

1 (25m 50s):
When the live shows start again, you certainly will have that opportunity at, at some of the events. There’s a couple in a couple in Romania and there’s one in Columbia and yeah, you should definitely get the, you should definitely get the guys that I’m live to send you there. We are hoping are you listening center to Romania, to Columbia

3 (26m 15s):
And yeah, we’ve brought

2 (26m 18s):
It up with them that we really want to go. My mother is terrified. She’s like a thousand percent sure I’m going to get taken, which is so funny because like I’ve tried to get sex trafficked before and they’ve returned to me every single time. No one is interested. I know, I know it’s, it’s a hard knock life for a logical ho, but yeah, we’re really hoping that we can go do this live just because I want the world to see this too. Like, I really want people to get, to see what I’ve gotten to see, not just in the podcast, but like on video, like live, like, I really want people to get to understand, like these are women that are smart and capable and hardworking and are passionate about what they do.

2 (27m 1s):
Well, you can do some

1 (27m 2s):
Remote stuff. You know, I planned to do it when the show started up again, I planned to do some remote interviews. It’ll give me a, some people that I wouldn’t normally be able to get. Oh. And by the way, Russian hookers peeing on your back that’s that’s, that’s pricing

2 (27m 18s):
Your bag always in your bag. Stripper bag, that’s happened to a couple of my stripper friends that they pissed off their own girl at the club and she peed in their bag. It never happened to me. I got a glass of water dumped in mine. Once I was

1 (27m 32s):
Going to say peeing on a peeing on a guy’s back. That costs man. That’s expensive. So what advice do you have for aspiring cam models and other adult content creators?

2 (27m 45s):
It’s a, it’s a, it’s so funny because I know I wrote this question, but I literally just was talking to my best friend from high school earlier today. And he wants to get into online content, not like porn, but he wants to start posting like snowboarding videos and stuff. And he called and was like, how do you he’s like, I know this is your job. Like how do you do this? And so I walked him all through it, but my biggest tips are like, you don’t need to spend a thousand, like millions of dollars. Don’t do that. Like, you don’t need crazy equipment. You need like your phone, a couple of lights. So don’t buy into that because I totally did. When I was starting go at your own pace, figure out what you like, figure out who you are.

2 (28m 28s):
And like research things like marketing and branding, keep your content consistent and, and make it fun. Don’t put a ton of pressure on yourself. It’s a grind. It takes years. I’ve been on only fans since 2017. And I did not make enough money per month to pay my rent until November, 2019 was the first time that I made enough money. I made like $1,500 that month. And that was the first time I’d made that much. And I make much more now obviously through the pandemic and through, you know, shifting my focus to that. But it’s a grind. It takes a really long time. Like you are not a failure if you’re not in the 1% overnight, like you just have to put in the work, figure out who you are, who you should collaborate with, where you’re going to fit and just work at it.

2 (29m 19s):
It’s a job like anything else. It’s the hours you put into it, the love you put into it and the passion you put into it.

3 (29m 26s):
Okay. Now I want to ask

1 (29m 29s):
You about your comedy career with the podcast and your only fans work. Do you really have much time for it and how active

2 (29m 36s):
Are you? I have no time for anything, but I make time for everything. So prior to the pandemic, I was doing probably five or six mikes a week and performing at the comedy store here in Los Angeles, I’ve gotten some really incredible opportunities to open for really big comics that have just been amazing and wonderful. So I’ve, I’ve gotten really lucky in terms of that, especially within like the LA podcast scene to get to do kind of those rounds. It’s been good for my online content and also my comedy career, but it’s what I’m really passionate about. I had just started to go on the road at the beginning of 2020 before all this happened.

2 (30m 18s):
I’m really hopeful that I will get to do that again. Soon. I have a show coming up, my first road show in over a year and a couple of months I’m going up to, or a couple of months, couple of weeks, I’m going up to big bear to go do a show with some of my friends, which will be very fun. And I just, I obviously adore standup. I love everything about it. And it’s yeah, it’s hard. I mean, I think, I think it’s harder than porn and I think porn is pretty hard, but like it’s rough. I mean, it can be humiliating and Digger. Like I joke that I used to do hardcore porn, but it just wasn’t degrading enough for me. So I got into stand up comedy and stuff.

1 (30m 56s):
So you weren’t, it wasn’t degrading. Nipsey went to work for kink.

2 (31m 2s):
I asked them to hit me harder. You’re not allowed to eat shit on the internet. You can in comedy.

1 (31m 8s):
Yeah. Well, if kink and if kinks not rough enough, then you’re in trouble. Okay. I’m going to ask you a question today. You’re probably would tell me that you never ask a comedian, but I’m going to ask it anyway. We ready.

3 (31m 24s):
Tell me a joke.

2 (31m 27s):
Do you think that Salman Rushdie was mad that he had to write the entire satanic verses in order to get a fatwa declared against him? When all Mia Khalifa had to do is suck Dick in a hijab because I would be mad probably that was like one of the first jokes I ever wrote was in my very first standup set that I ever did. And I was so proud of that joke. And like I got off stage and someone was like, that jokes really elitist. And I was like, you know, I can’t fucking help if you don’t know who Salomon, right? Like, I can’t help the fight. You didn’t go to college if you don’t know who she is. And if you don’t know who me and Khalifa is, or if your boyfriend who you’re with at the show, doesn’t know who me and Khalifa is, he’s lying.

2 (32m 12s):
So there you go. It tells you everything you need to know about the audience right away. It’s a great opener. And you,

1 (32m 16s):
Do you talk about porn in your, in your comedy?

2 (32m 20s):
Absolutely. Yeah. It’s I mean, I, I really,

1 (32m 24s):
I would get you to get the eye, the guy’s attention right away.

2 (32m 27s):
It’s one of those things, like I really try to, from the get-go, like, I didn’t want to be pigeon-holed as like a comic that can only talk about one thing. So I, when I first started my entire set about porn, because porn is so funny and like you said, people, their ears perk up. Like people are fascinated by it. They want to hear about it. So when I first started, I did so many jokes like that. And then, you know, I really got very serious about it and was like, okay, this is a part of my identity. It’s a part of my life. I don’t want to hide it. I’m never going to be like, don’t talk about it or don’t mention that I did it. But at the same time, I want to be able to do social commentary and talk about my dating life or by parents or whatever on stage as well.

2 (33m 10s):
And so, you know, I try to like mix it up with other stuff, but I definitely come back to it a lot. And if I feel like I’m losing the audience, it’s a really easy thing to throw out there and be like, by the way, you can see my Bumble on the internet. So if you don’t think this is funny, at least you can. I see,

1 (33m 29s):
Okay. You go to, you mentioned dating. How does I don’t this might be on also on the list of questions not to ask, but how does performing and I do mean adult performing affect your dating

2 (33m 41s):
Life. I do want to be clear. I’m not a PR, like I did ask that question for other people. Cause I care really deeply about the way the sex workers are portrayed, but like, they’re like no questions. I won’t answer. Like literally, like I just, I’m a very open book about almost everything. Like I am happy to talk about things and you know, but I, I know that not everyone else’s. So it was more focused on that. I will say, I think dating and I, I do a joke about this as well that like dating in standup, I think is real, is harder than dating in porn, mean like dating and porn is just like agreeing to like work a little bit of extra overtime for no pay.

2 (34m 21s):

3 (34m 23s):
Like sucks. But if you, I love that. Thank you.

2 (34m 30s):
Whereas like dating in comedy is like, I, I have a joke about that too, where I’m like, I went through a phase where I would only date mediocre comics because they know how to choke. And I wrote that joke on a really specific comic who really did not like it, but that joke was about him. And, but yeah, I mean, it’s hard. I didn’t date. I’ve been single since I was 22, 23, since I got into porn, basically I never dated anyone while I was in porn. It just wasn’t like, it wasn’t my focus. And I did end up like in a, kind of a long distance relationship. The last year I was in porn and it was like, I had just like met someone that really kind of changed my life and changed my perspective that I really fell for.

2 (35m 19s):
And it was one of the things that started me, like the gears in my head turning of, okay, we’re going to do something else at some point. And I really admire, I know a lot of sex workers that are in very happy relationships or happy, monogamous relationships. I’m not capable of that. Turns out. I, I couldn’t do it. Like it became, I mean, I would cry when I was going to work and not because they didn’t want to go to work or cause they didn’t like my job, but just, I really didn’t want to fuck anyone else. And that was so hard for me. But it also, I think was so good for

3 (35m 53s):
Me. That’s a w yeah, that, that’s,

1 (35m 56s):
That’s a problem if you’re, if you’re doing adult because

3 (35m 59s):
You know, then yeah, I understand.

2 (36m 2s):
It just started the gears turning of being like, okay, like I am going to do something else. And, and that was right when I started getting into standup as well. And so initially I had planned like 20, 20, I was gonna phase out like through the year and then COVID happens. So it’s about everything up, but I am dating someone right now, which is really cool. Yeah. Another former sex worker and she’s amazing and yeah, and we’re not monogamous, but very honest with each other. And I just feel really loved and really seen. And, and that’s really wonderful. So I feel really like,

1 (36m 36s):
That’s beautiful now, what do you think the future of porn and online sex work looks like?

2 (36m 44s):
Oh my God, I wrote this question. This is such a hard question to answer. I have like such empathy for all of the people I interview now turns out, I ask really hard questions. There you go. I really think that this past year, and I know there’s been a lot of discussion, the scores around only fans and porn and porn hub and everything that’s been going on this year. I love the idea of having like more like bespoke porn like that you really buy directly from the creator, whether it’s on only fans or any other platform where you support them individually for my brand, that works really well.

2 (37m 27s):
So I’m really lucky for that. And so I like that a lot. I think we’re really having more serious conversations about labor and especially women’s labor through the pandemic. Like if we look at like a job like net job losses in the United States in December, a hundred percent of job losses were women. And to summarize that crazy, it was in the New York times, obviously fucking crazy. So we’re really starting to see more people that maybe in the past would have been like, I would never do porn. I would never do sex work that are now on only fans. And I, you know, obviously you want women to have as many options as they want for what kind of labor that they do.

2 (38m 8s):
But I think a lot of people are starting to realize that like, Hey, it really is the girl next door it’s okay for women to be publicly sexual in a consensual environment with people that are routine like it’s, that is okay. And I kind of had joked even when I first got into porn, cause like I went to college, I have like two degrees. And when I first got into porn, a lot of people were like, you’re throwing your life away. What the fuck is wrong with you? And I was like, give it 10 years. Every single person’s are going to be on the internet. And I’m like, not even four years later, I feel so vindicated in that prediction is that we’re I really think that we’re starting to have a, a greater cultural discourse around what porn is, what it can be and who it can benefit because you know, like I said earlier, it’s one of the only professions where it has a very low barrier of entry.

2 (39m 4s):
Like you need an iPhone and an internet connection, right? Like you don’t need to have all of these things that we associate with being really successful in like generational wealth. You don’t have to have those kinds of connections. So you can really make a very comfortable living from your phone. That’s huge for women. Right. So I, I love that. I think that’s fantastic. I w whenever I talk to people that want to get into sex work, or that are curious about it, I just say, you know, it’s, it is a job. Like anything else, it’s a unique job. It’s a very difficult job, but it can be a really rewarding job. And I also think that too, like just the ways we talk about labor, right?

2 (39m 46s):
Like I, a big part of why I got into porn was cause I didn’t want to work 80 hours a week. Right. I didn’t my friends, the guy I got out of school with, you know, that went and got these incredible internships in San Francisco, New York and blah, blah, blah. I mean, they were working 80 hours a week for $20 an hour and just getting absolutely bombed every weekend because they were miserable. And I didn’t want that to be my life. And I understand, you know, especially in your twenties, when you’re young and you can travel and you have the energy to go do things, you don’t have kids, you don’t have those responsibilities. Like I wanted to enjoy my twenties. And I really think I did a pretty good job at that.

2 (40m 25s):

1 (40m 27s):
Obviously. And they’re, they’re far from over, how did you transition from the adult industry into mainstream comedy and podcasting

2 (40m 38s):
By being really stubborn and not shutting up until people in the citizens? No, I just, I kind of took what I had and I, I just took stock of what I was doing. And when I started doing standup and everything and being like, okay, you know, like I want to do this. And I, I never went into it with the attitude of like, and I kind of learned this from porn, especially too. Like I never went into it. The attitude of like, I don’t deserve to be here. Like, I, I really, I got a lot of, a lot of self-confidence from doing porn. I think it’s hard not to. Right. You’re in this environment all the time where people are telling you, you’re so hot and you’re so beautiful. You’re so great. And it’s hard not to like fluff your own ego a little bit, but for me, I really needed that because I did not have high self-esteem when I was younger.

2 (41m 26s):
I did not feel that way about myself. And so for me, like getting into porn really was like, okay, if I could do this year. And I mean, I moved to LA, like I look back on it. I’m like, oh my God. If I knew myself three years ago, moving to LA, I would’ve been like, don’t do. And I’m so glad it worked out as well as it did. I, I would’ve worn myself off of it. I’m glad I wasn’t there to do that to myself. But like, well, my favorite, not my favorite place, but that’s okay. I love it. I get why people don’t love it. I really do think people are going to talk about LA in like 20, 20 or 2021, the way that they talked about like New York in the seventies where it’s like, it was disgusting and there’s hobo piss everywhere, but it was gritty and it was raw and it was real.

2 (42m 10s):
And you couldn’t have had it back then. You know what I mean? But no, I mean, I, I just went into it and I like said what I thought and I worked hard and I made those connections. I mean, I think another big thing about porn that people don’t really talk about. Like, you can build up a huge online following and have all of these followers on Twitter, Instagram, PornHub, whatever. You really build a name for yourself. And I I’m good friends with Carter Cruz. Who’s another performer. Who’s also a DJ. And she, she and I talk about this all the time where she’s like, when I built the brand of Carter Cruz, I built it to be I’m this fucking dope ass chick who can do anything.

2 (42m 55s):
Not I’m part of her is a porn star. And I I’m, mine was the same mentality where I was like, I’m Kate Kennedy, I’m fucking rad. Like I can do whatever. And I think having that bigger mindset where you can do porn, you can do sex work, you can do adult work. And you also want to leave room to do other things in your life that you want to do. Cause the most successful people that I see in the porn industry are not people that just do porn, right. There are people that have other side ventures, whether it’s backend production within the industry, whether it’s, I know people that own clothing, boutiques and soap companies and all this random other stuff and do comedy in seven.

2 (43m 38s):
And those are the people that I see later being very happy, very successful, very fulfilled.

1 (43m 46s):
That brings up. That brings up a question you live in LA. So, you know, obviously the question would come up. Do you have interest in mainstream film work?

2 (43m 58s):
Hey, just joined central casting and yeah. Cause one of my friends hit me up and was like, he wrote three legged dog. Right. And I was like, yeah, he’s like, there’s a casting call for a three legged dog and an owner. So I like submitted squeegee and I, and I don’t think we got a call back. I know it’s okay. I don’t really, I, I really want to be a writer. I write a lot and I would really love to be a writer on a show like a sit-com, especially like adult animation. I always kind of joke like, like something like big would be like right up my alley. I love it all animation. I love south park and family guy and everything been a huge fan of that since I was very young.

2 (44m 40s):
So, and that’s a great thing about comedy to an LA and especially being around the comedy store. Is that like the it’s very generational. Right? So like my friends right now, my good close friends in LA are like the next people that are going to come up that are starting to open for like bill Burr and are going on the road with, you know, whoever. And, and that’s really cool. And so, you know, that like people that hire for those shows, they hire their friends. So it’s like, okay, like I want to be in a writer’s room for something like that. And I’m actually in a writer’s room right now. So it’s exciting. Yeah. So I mean, that’s what I want to do. I don’t have a lot of ambitions to be in front of the camera as like an actress.

2 (45m 22s):
I kind of joked. I always thought it was pretty bad acting even in porn, which is saying something because although I will say there are incredible actors and actresses isn’t born. I was not one of them. I’m definitely more of a writer. I love standup. Cause I just, I kind of joked to him. Like I can really only play myself or like version someplace else. I love it. I love

1 (45m 43s):
It. Well, you know, Hey, you may be right now surrounded by the next people that will be on SNL and shows like

2 (45m 50s):
That. Actually one of my friends just got SNL last summer. It was really exciting. Yeah. Punky Johnson. She got SNL and it was really cool. I mean, like I only met her a couple of times at the store, but she, yeah, we all had, we took a big picture with her and had her name up on the marquee and it was really exciting. It’s just so cool to get to like be around people like that. They get to go on to do these incredible things. Like you’re so excited for them. Yeah. Huge. So

1 (46m 19s):
What do people get wrong about your job that you wish they understood?

2 (46m 24s):
Okay. I asked this question to all of the girls in the show too, cause I think that’s so good. I think the biggest thing people get wrong is how much, not just creativity goes into it, but how much a drive has to go into it. Like it’s fucking hard to film content when you’re exhausted and you don’t feel sexy and you’ve gained a couple of pounds and you’re pale and you have the hair of like the gay little brother of one of the Basie rollers, which I do right now. I’ve been cutting my own hair for a year. I have not gotten more sober while I do it or better at doing it.

2 (47m 6s):
Yeah. It’s, it’s not great. It’s hard. It’s really hard to like consistently be coming up with like new ideas for content. How you’re really a one man operation. Right? Like my whole only fence of like, I have to create right. Shoot, edit, like style it and then like put it up by like, and sell it. Like that’s an enormous amount of work. Like I, when I was in college, I worked at an advertising firm for a couple of years and I ended up like running their internship program and I worked really hard, but like we had a staff of 30 people that were creating less content on a weekly basis than I create alone

3 (47m 51s):
Now. Yeah. No wonder you do so well there.

2 (47m 55s):
So like it’s I know you didn’t hire me after college. My life would have gone in a very different direction. I’m glad now in retrospect I’m glad, but yeah. I mean it’s, it really is hours. I have like five different calendars. Right? I have to write everything down. I am constantly jotting down ideas like, and also just understanding that like, cause you can get really caught up in it too. Right? It’s a job that you can do any time. You’re your own boss. And I joke that I’m an absolutely fucking terrible boss. I’m the worst boss I’ve ever had. And I used to work for this little Chinese woman that hit me. If she saw me using my phone, I worked in bridal for a while.

2 (48m 35s):
I was in college and if she saw me like texting, she would just smack me and I’d be like, you can’t do that to your employer. Like I don’t mean to be insensitive, but this is America. Like you cannot do that. That’s really not cool. And then I

4 (48m 51s):
Quit getting the visual ratios, like four

2 (48m 54s):
11. She was like teeny tiny. And then I finally quit. And then like two weeks later, I’m not giving, I’m not shitting you two weeks later, her son drowned. I know. And he was like 15, it was terrible. It’s a terrible, it’s really sad. But like how awkward of a sympathy card is that right? Yeah. Like I’m so sorry that you’re. And also he was definitely her favorite child. Like she was very clear, but she liked him better than the other. I need a Chinese son, man. That’s that’s traffic. It was very tragic. But it is like, you have to, like, I really build in days for myself where I’m like, you have to take the day off.

2 (49m 35s):
You have to relax. You have to not work. Like you have to close the door on the office, whatever, because it, you put an enormous amount of pressure on yourself and you’re always too late, constantly inundated with all of this. All of the people that you follow on Twitter on Instagram, whatever, like your coworkers, colleagues that are, is doing it. And you can get in a mindset of feeling like I’m not doing enough. I’m not good enough, et cetera, et cetera. And it’s so hard to break out of that. And so I really just try to be so kind to myself all the time, because it’s a hard job

3 (50m 12s):
You got to.

1 (50m 14s):
Well, okay. This has been absolutely delightful. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I really hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

2 (50m 24s):
Me too. Thank you so much for having me and anyone listening. Please go listen to our podcast. It’s cam girl Chronicles presented by I’m live and you can find it@camgirlpod.com.

0 (50m 36s):
What broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy and then establishing what your budget is next. It’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult site broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can also act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site. Other places to look are boards like X biz.net and <inaudible> dot com. But to be completely honest, unless what you’re looking for is a really low end property.

0 (51m 16s):
You’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course you could contact site owners yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living. It’s a major hassle, and it can be really hard to even find out who owns the site. Almost all adults sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar. So when you send them an email, it will be to an anonymous address. And in most cases, the emails aren’t even returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out, we’ll talk about this subject more next week.

0 (51m 55s):
And next week we’ll be talking to sex tech expert, Nina Siani. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Kate Kennedy. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
his is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with porn starlet Vicky Vette.

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0 (1m 33s):
The site offers top discounts to the hottest networks in adult entertainment. In addition, they offer full length scenes to these sites. So surfers can sample the content. Also the seams serve to keep the visitors engaged longer on the site. Then the traditional review site, they offer outstanding prices to adult networks. On behalf of their visitors. The surfers on the site will be hard-pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time, Brazzers bang bros, and just about every other top adult networking site. They’ve been growing their email list since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000.

0 (2m 14s):
In the past six months, their unsubscribe rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well. This is boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding pay site review platform for only $956,000. Now time for this week’s interview

1 (2m 46s):
My guest today, Dan, and I’ll say, broker talk has adult star and entrepreneur Vicky vet Vicki. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Thanks for having me. Hey, it’s always good to have you Vicky. Okay. Now Vicki was born in Norway and moved to Canada as a child. She started her journey and adult in 2003, after winning hustlers beaver hunt at the ripe young age of 38. And she still doesn’t look a day over 30. By the time the winning layout was shot. She was already 39, the oldest beaver to ever win it. Now, prior to that, she was in the corporate world. Everything from bookkeeper to general manager and controller, as she describes it, I never really fit into normal jobs because I led a double life prudish, small town conservative by day, raging swinger.

1 (3m 37s):
At night, when she went beaver hunt, she was offered film roles and the rest, as they say is history. She went on to star and over 130 movies and was lucky enough to be nominated for best new starlet and to win an AVN award for best teas right off the bat right away. She started her own official site after she learned some basic web mastering skills. In 2006, she decided to focus on online adult entertainment. She took a gamble and stop making DVDs so she could spend more time with the site. And then obviously turned out to be a great move. Considering where DVDs are today for a few months, fans thought she had retired until they discovered she was producing her own content for the internet and releasing it herself.

1 (4m 20s):
The online world accepted her brand of goofy reality porn and the website flourished. Her fans started to call themselves the vet nation army or VNA. She started to ask some of the hottest girls in the biz to join her in the VNA. Thus, the VNA girls were born VNA started in 20 2009 when she added sunny lane, Shondra, Fey, and Sarah J how that rhymes after adding girls like Nikki Benz, Puma, suede, and Julie, and things really took off. When it got to 12 sites, she nicknamed the girls, the dirty dozen. Now there are 30 to 40 sites and 60 live girls.

1 (5m 1s):
It’s better than dead ones. Vicky has won a number of awards, including the hall of fame by AVN and web store of the year. Twice by ex-business side is one best porn star website, and best solo site, twice, or list of awards this as long as encyclopedia Britannica. So we can’t list them all. Let’s just say Vicky’s been nominated for and won eight ton of awards. So Vicky, that’s all we have time for. Sorry. You don’t, you don’t do many interviews at all. Why did you say yes to me?

2 (5m 35s):
Because we had such a nice lunch together back in Dresden, Germany when we were at X is in Berlin and you seem like a nice person. So I’m actually, I’m actually really shy. Believe it or not. I don’t really like giving interviews.

1 (5m 54s):
It’s a hard one. That’s a hard one to believe. Yeah. We sat right across from each other and it was delightful. Yes. Was you and I talked the whole time.

2 (6m 3s):
Yeah. And you’re a talker

1 (6m 6s):
Who me? Nah, come on. Nah, never, never, never. Okay. So how often do you cam lately?

2 (6m 15s):
More than I like to, I find Cammy is really hard. You have to be, you know, someone’s mistress, lover, friends, you know, psychiatrist. Sure. I mean, you know, you never know what you’re going to get. You know, it’s like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get. I mean, it could be anything from upscale routes to domination, to, you know, they want you to be their teacher, their secretary. I mean, you just never know, but I, I don’t cam on any of the networks, I just do my one hour a week on my own network being alive.

2 (6m 58s):
And the rest is just private Skype shows with, with fans.

1 (7m 2s):
Do you know how many sites you guys have now? 30 to 40? You said,

2 (7m 7s):
Just go look@vnagirls.com. Cause it does. It changes. Sometimes. Sometimes the girls leave for a little while and you know, they might think, oh, the grass is greener somewhere else. And then they come back or they just retire for a while. They just take time off and they, you know, they just, they come and go. So

1 (7m 26s):
How do you like kind of being the, the ringleader, the house mother or whatever it is for all these, all these porn stars.

2 (7m 38s):
I actually love it. You know, we’re, we’re a team. We work together the way the V and a live system works. I don’t know if you totally understand it. There’s not actually any money on the system. You don’t get paid for doing cam shows. It’s only girls who have subscription based membership sites and every girl is supposed to do one hour a week

1 (8m 2s):
Supposed to do right,

2 (8m 4s):
Right. Into what we call our cam ring. So it’s like an ongoing live content trade all the time. So every girl that’s in the network has a feed to their site. So a lot of the girls, I’m not their webmaster. We have girls like Daisy, Dustin, and lay love Kelly, cabana, Chelsie, double D all these girls that I’m not their webmaster. I don’t run their sites. I don’t get any money from their sites, but they cam on our network and they get the feeds so they can get, you know, 30, 40, 50 hours a week of live content for their members. So they get a nice mix of, you know, they get Sarah, Jay, they get Julia. And you know, you get teens, you get MILFs, you get penthouse pets, you get BBWs.

2 (8m 50s):
Sometimes we have some, some training girls on, on the site. It, it depends. And so you had a nice mix of everything. And so if you’re a solo girl, that’s great because you know, you’re competing, you’re one solo site is competing against naughty America and browsers with all their content in different sites. So it kind of puts you into that same ballpark. And we have 17,000 hours plus of archives that people can watch. So they get hooked up to that immediately. And then we have a members forum, which is pretty active also. So you get a lot out of it.

1 (9m 26s):
Yeah, I do. I do I get the impression when you said they’re supposed to do that? Not all of them do it. No.

2 (9m 33s):
And I used to be really tough about it. You know, if you didn’t do your schedule shows, I would kick you out of the network. In the beginning, I was kicking people out. I was really overzealous about it, but you know, in my old age of softened up a lot and you know, things have changed now, girls are making more money on only fans than they are on their websites. So I can’t be that enforcer that I used to be.

1 (9m 60s):
Should I ask that? You said your, you said your old age, you

2 (10m 3s):
Don’t do your shows. It’s going to show in your membership sales, you know, so it’s kind of a self-correcting system. If you don’t, if you’re not where you’re supposed to be, when you say you’re going to be there, it’s going to come back on you. So I don’t need to, I don’t, I don’t need to be that heavy because it fixes itself.

1 (10m 20s):
Well, that’s good. You said at your old age, should I ask how old you are?

2 (10m 24s):
I’m 55. My God.

1 (10m 26s):
You look wonderful. Thank

2 (10m 28s):
You. Especially for being so late at night.

1 (10m 32s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, you know, I saw, I saw Dolly Parton recently and I can’t believe she’s 75. Of course. I know. I started to my God, my God, she’s a Juul. Sure.

2 (10m 48s):
With her money, she can afford the best of every single procedure. Okay. I

1 (10m 52s):
Hope so. I would hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 75, my God, she’s still, still, it looks like she did 30 years ago, but 40 years ago, but that’s, that’s awesome. Yes. Plastic surgery is a wonderful thing. So tell us about the new cam system and why it’s so special.

2 (11m 11s):
I absolutely love it. We have audio for the members. So the models video is huge, obviously. And then we have a row across the bottom where I think what you, depending on the size of your monitor, obviously, but I have a 32 inch monitor so I can fit, I think, easily 10 or 12 cams across the bottom. I think we can go up to 20 members that can get on cam. And so there’ll be sliders where you can slide back and forth to see them all. And I can turn on their audio and they have an audio switch on their end to where they, they have to also allow their own audio. Right. And they can turn the audio of other members on and off as well.

2 (11m 53s):
So it’s quite fascinating. So we really get to know each other really well. And you know, my, I have had members who joined my website back in, when did I start my website? 2004, I think 2005. It started getting bigger. Yeah. I’ve had members that have stayed with me the whole time. They’ve been members for 14, 15 years, 16 years. Some of them. Yeah. So a lot of them have become really good friends. And we now refer to it like, cheers, you know, the place where everybody knows your name and everyone’s glad you came literally. And so we actually have a lot of female members now, too.

2 (12m 37s):
And they get on cam also sometimes they’ll get topless. We’ve had couples get on cam and the guy will give the girl a blow job right on cam. So I’ll just sit back and relax and watch the show.

1 (12m 49s):
Do you mean the girl will get, you mean, the girl would give the guy a blow drum?

2 (12m 53s):
Yeah. Oh no. You said

1 (12m 55s):
The opposite. I was going to say, well, that’d be, that’d be interesting. Yeah. So have you ever heard anything in the audio that I just want to hear?

2 (13m 6s):
Well, no, just on, on Sunday I was doing myself with a Hitachi and one of the girls was doing herself with a Hitachi at the same time and she was hollering and you know, it was such a turn on to be doing it together with everybody watching. And then she dropped the Hitachi right next to the microphone though, to her cam. And it was like, it’s like, it killed art. Like,

1 (13m 33s):
Yeah. That’ll, that’ll blow the old, that’ll blow the old eardrums out for sure.

2 (13m 38s):
Started thing. I mean, it’s, it’s a real community. I mean, you can join other websites and just, you know, randomly kind of generically download porn. But when you join the VNA, it’s different. You know, people do become friends. We actually had people meet in our cameras and on our member’s forum and then go meet outside in person. I think, you know, the woman was from Texas and the guy was from Montreal or something like that. And they actually met and dated for a long time and became a couple for a couple of years. So things like that happen or they come see us all at a convention where we’re all doing together and they all come hang out and we go out for dinner, we’ve gone bowling with all of the members we’ve gone on bicycle rides, rollerblading, you know, just things like that.

2 (14m 29s):
And so we really do not, we went out and sang karaoke one night with all the members after a convention.

1 (14m 35s):
Sounds like, sounds like the Vienna, the VNA social club.

2 (14m 41s):
Yeah. It really is. That’s how we try to make it. And you have to nowadays, I mean, there’s so much competition, but I mean, we’ve been doing that since day one. That’s how we started. That’s how we branded ourselves and made.

1 (14m 52s):
Yeah, well, that’s dare to be different. I always say now worked so far, obviously with COVID we haven’t been able to see each other for a while, which is really sad. Are how much are you looking forward to in person conventions? Again,

2 (15m 8s):
Be honest, a little while before. COVID my last convention that I went to was exotica New Jersey. And I had a really terrible experience. Now I’m really touchy, feely with my members. I mean, I go to extreme lengths to make sure that they get really good pictures. I mean, they’re paying money for these pictures. They want to show them to their friends. So, you know, I’ll take their hands and put them on my boobs. I’ll bend over and tell them to grab my hair and act like they’re having sex with me. And you know, or I’ll bin them over and act like I’m doing them. Or, you know, I, I do all this crazy stuff. And so I’m really nice to people. And this one guy kept on trying to put his finger up my JJ during, during the picture.

2 (15m 54s):
And I took his hand and put it back around my waist and I said, please don’t do that. And then we smiled for the camera and he went again, you know, I slapped his hand down and I S I said, look, you know, I’m just going to cancel this picture. Forget about, okay. Okay. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. So then we smile for the picture get, and does he need to do it again and got his finger right inside my panties right up my BJJ, it hurt. I was furious. I almost started crying because I just, I can’t even describe the feelings that was just overwhelming. And I screamed at him and told him to get out of my booth. And then of course people came running and chased them away.

2 (16m 36s):
And then I kind of stormed off and went to the restaurant and I’m like, I’m not doing this shit anymore. I’m done. I’m set up, you know, took a couple hours off, cool. Cooled off and went back to my booth. But that really changed my attitude because I never talked to me before

1 (16m 53s):
Traumatic. That’s really traumatic. I, I, I’m sorry. I gave you credit for not running him off the first time he tried it and maybe that’s and maybe, and maybe he in retrospect, that’s what you should have done. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, so maybe no more, no more fan shows.

2 (17m 12s):
No, I miss them now. I’ve pulled off. I’m over it. I’m okay. I’ll just probably be a little bit more careful and just maybe have a little bit more security around me in case it happens again.

1 (17m 23s):
It’s a good idea. Have a, have a, have a big formal, former football player that can flatten the guy. That would be what I would do. Find somebody who played linebacker at Ohio state or something like that. And that’ll take care of the problem. I don’t think anybody will mess with you. How about B2B shows? Yeah. I love them. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Looking forward

2 (17m 44s):
To, I mean, that’s where I make people like you.

3 (17m 46s):
Yeah. I miss my family. I miss my family

1 (17m 50s):
And the people in this industry are definitely my family. So it’s, it’s sad. It’s definitely a loss because I do enjoy that. I’m hoping for Prague in, in September, they’ve got one scheduled for July. Hi. I’d like to think that’s going to happen, but I okay. Well, they

2 (18m 7s):
Say by the end of may, everybody, at least in the U S everybody who wants a vaccine,

1 (18m 12s):
But not Europe, Europe, Europe’s way behind. They just started. Yeah. I mean, we’re recording this in beginning of March and they’re just starting vaccinations in Thailand. So they’re way behind. And I don’t even know if I want the vaccine. They have hair. So anyway, well, they got the AstraZeneca and they’ve got the one from China, which you’d have to pay me a million dollars to take, and I still might not take it. So anyway, there you go. I assume I should

2 (18m 50s):
Still get the vaccine, even though I had COVID.

1 (18m 53s):
Yes. Oh, you did? Yeah. How was that?

2 (18m 59s):
We were in Paris when all of this started last March a year ago.

1 (19m 5s):
I was in Arizona

2 (19m 7s):
At the Madonna concert. Oh, wow. With, with about 4,000 Italians. So chances of not getting it, where is it?

1 (19m 18s):
Italy? Yeah. Italy was the first place that really, really had a problem outside of China.

2 (19m 25s):
Well, we went to see Madonna at this theater. It was, so it was horribly packed. I mean, he could have moved. People were just like shoulder to shoulder in there and it was hot and sticky and, but the show was amazing. Oh,

1 (19m 41s):
Was it the first time you saw her? Yes. Yeah. I haven’t, I haven’t seen it. She comes right

2 (19m 46s):
Out in the audience and sits down with people. She’ll grab your beer and take a swig of it and talks to people. So she got COVID too.

1 (19m 57s):
Did she? And, and, and, and did you, I mean, was it, did you have it severely, did you, how was it

2 (20m 5s):
Friday? No, sorry. It was Wednesday. I was in bed. It was like two o’clock. I had just gone to sleep. Yeah. I was in Ireland at that time because we were moving around and all of a sudden my phone started going crazy. Everybody that I know in the USA started texting me, Hey, you got to come home right now. Donald Trump just made this decree that if you’re not home by Friday the 13th at midnight, you might not get back in this country. So he created this great big panic. So we had to, we had to give up sleep that

1 (20m 38s):
Night. He was good. He was, he was really good at that, by the way,

2 (20m 44s):
Sit on the phone all night long with Virgin, whoever British airways, try and get tickets to come back, which was nearly impossible because everybody was doing it. So the tickets were thousands of dollars. So we were in somewhere three hours, south of Dublin. So the next day we drove back to Dublin, got a same day ticket back to London, slept at the airport in London. The next day I got another same day ticket to come home on a plane that was crowded to the hilt. And people were just coughing all over us and you know, it was horrible. So I got home and I hadn’t slept for a couple of days. And I thought I just had jet lag. So I just, you know, took it easy and stayed in bed.

2 (21m 24s):
I just had severe muscle aches. Nothing else? Really? No fever, no cough, nothing just muscling.

1 (21m 31s):
Good. Good, good, good, good. You were one of the lucky ones. So what’s a, what’s a typical day like for you.

2 (21m 39s):
I get up in the morning and I go through about a hundred emails and then I go on my only fans and I go through about 200 messages over there. Try to sort out the important ones. Then I grabbed my dogs and go for a good run. Nice. And come back, eat, edit the videos that I shot the day before, update the websites. We have. We have a crew of people that work for us in Mexico. They actually edit video and update all the websites. So I check in with them. They also do uploading for us to all the tubes. We have another guy.

2 (22m 21s):
Well, we actually have two people in the Tampa area that worked for us. So check in with them. I have a programmer in Holland that does stuff for me, check in with him, make sure the cam system is working check in with the guy that does the archive, you know, so it’s just a lot of just babysitting everything and plus doing my own stuff. It’s, it’s getting harder and harder because I don’t know anymore my model and my a webmaster and my manager, like, you know, I still edit my own videos. What am I? I’m just like everything. I’m a little bit of everything.

1 (22m 56s):
Well, it sounds like you’ve got a well-oiled machine there. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s quite an operation you’ve got.

2 (23m 3s):
Yeah. And we’ve always kind of been outsiders, you know, we’ve never really been in the LA clinic because we’re in Florida before that we were in Atlanta, Georgia. So I’ve never really been kind of the in crowd, I guess, kind of like an island. You know, we do everything in house until it got too big and then we started hiring it out, but not to the typical people, but finally, after all this time, I’m with mojo host and I have Conrad from NEC bunny, if you know him. So he’s the one that did this amazing cam system for us. So

1 (23m 39s):
He’s very good. He’s very good as mojo host. No doubt, no doubt about it. Oh, and by the way, you, you pronounced Florida different than you did in your email.

2 (23m 50s):
I said Florida. Yeah. That’s

1 (23m 51s):
Better. That’s better. Okay. Much. Very good. Very good. How do you feel about PornHub?

2 (23m 59s):
I was in this business before PornHub and if they’re ever gone, I’ll probably still be here after, but you know, you have to play the cards that you’re dealt and if it was just me, I might do things differently, but because I’m responsible for the paychecks of a whole bunch of other girls, I have to make sure that everybody makes money in every single possible way. So, you know, you got to dance with the devil. Right.

1 (24m 29s):
Okay. So I guess, I guess your, I guess your feelings about it, isn’t a them and other tubes. Isn’t exactly positive. Well,

2 (24m 38s):
We’re actually making a lot of money off of the other tubes. Like way more. Yeah.

1 (24m 45s):
Why, why, why? Way more than, than PornHub. No, they’re big. I don’t,

2 (24m 50s):
I don’t. Yeah, but you know, we make way more from X hamster and X videos

1 (24m 59s):
Or has never been big for us. Yeah. That’s interesting. Not

2 (25m 3s):
Sure why, but since they got rid of all the stolen porn, our website sales on all the sites have gone up and all of the, all of the affiliate sales from PornHub and even from the other tubes, all the fully sales have gone up as well. So that’s been good for us. It’s

1 (25m 22s):
Amazing what it took to finally have that happen. But it’s a, it’s a wonderful thing for the industry. And I think in the long run, it’ll be a wonderful thing for them too. I think they, I think that that whole thing not necessarily positive for the industry because of the negative publicity, but at the same time, I think that PornHub is going to come out ahead and the whole industry will come out ahead because a lot of the unauthorized, all the unauthorized content on a way, which is, which is great,

2 (25m 52s):
But you know, if only it had been like that the whole time, it would have been

1 (25m 56s):
Great. Yup. Yup. Yup. Well that, wasn’t their original business model, unfortunately. And yeah. Dance with the devil, I guess that’s the best way to put it. Huh. Now do you think there will always be pay sites? Something, some people say it’s a thing. Yeah.

2 (26m 15s):
Yes. Because it’s your, it’s your base, you know, so many other platforms just come and go. I mean, I’m sure if you sit here and think for a minute, you can come up with a lot of names of platforms that have gone under, right. Yeah. And you know, for a while, Snapchat was huge, right. And now Snapchat is kind of gone down and then it’s only fans and then it’s something else. And you know, your, your website is going to always be there. And plus you can put all your links to everything on your website. Of course the affiliates hate that because you know, people go to your site and then they jump to the other social media, but we have to be fair to the girls and give them proper exposure and keep their star as high as possible everywhere.

2 (26m 59s):
But yeah, people always come back to this place. And a lot of times people will join only fans. And they’ll find it’s getting really expensive, paying $10 for every single video. So then they’ll join your site too. And they jumped back and forth. And then you have the super fans that follow you everywhere. There’ll be on, they’ll buy your mini vids, they’ll buy your loyal fans. They’ll buy your only fans will buy your website. They’ll, they’ll go everywhere that you are.

1 (27m 22s):
Yeah. You talked about the affiliates and the, and the, you know, the referred to the traffic leaks involved with the, with linking to other things it’s necessary. And they’re not going to find a site now that doesn’t do that. Right. So it can be frustrated, but they’ll have to be frustrated with the industry because it’s the whole industry.

2 (27m 44s):
Exactly. And you just have to be everywhere. You have to be, you have to try everything and see which one works.

1 (27m 50s):
Indeed. Indeed. So how is the VNA different from other networks?

2 (27m 57s):
It’s a community. It’s not just a place where you go to download porn. It’s actually a community. We have a requests thread in the forum. Cool. So guys can post, I would love to see you doing, you know, whatever. And you know, lo and behold, a week or two later, there it is on the site it’s done for them. We use, we use their name sometimes in the videos. Yeah. It’s, it’s personal. It’s really personal. And I, I know the dog’s names of my members.

1 (28m 30s):
Yeah. That’s neat. Yeah. Any time you make things personal and you make things interactive, it’s going to have a lot more chance of being successful as opposed to just porn on a site.

2 (28m 46s):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We do a good, we do a really good job of that. I think. Sorry. It’s always been our strength. Yeah.

1 (28m 53s):
Well, and yeah. And it sounds like your members,

2 (28m 55s):
We’re still in the game, even with all this competition, crazy amount of competition from only fans and everywhere

1 (29m 3s):
Else. Yeah. But there’s no competition to what you do from what I see. I think you guys are one of a kind, I’m surprised more. Haven’t tried to emulate you so good for you, you know? Yeah. Good for you. It’s all. It’s, it’s all Vicky. I mean, you’re, you’re the one that started it and you’ve put it all together. So you deserve a lot of credit, you know, you’re one of a kind, there’s no two ways about it. Now. How do you feel about Twitter going to a new pay model?

2 (29m 32s):
I think it’s a good thing. If, if the end result is that we don’t have to post all of our nude stuff on Twitter, then it’s a good thing. I think all porn should be behind paywall. Yeah. I mean, that’s how it should be. And the only reason why I have to post, I try not to post pink on Twitter. Only, only topless, but even in our website tours, you know, we have explicit content in our tours. All you have to do is click the button that says I’m over 18. And then you get to see pink. And I don’t think that’s correct, but we don’t have a choice because even if we stopped doing it here in the states, they’re still going to do it in all the other countries.

2 (30m 13s):
So if we want to compete, we don’t have a choice. We have to do it. But if somehow we could get at where everything is behind a paywall, I think that would be, be a good thing because 12 and 13 year old boys are looking at Twitter and seeing, you know, anal prolapse videos and the stuff they put out there for free it’s, it’s traumatic, Twitter needs. They shouldn’t be exposed

1 (30m 38s):
To that. Yeah. Twitter, Twitter needs to definitely moderate that because that’s, you know, that that should not be happening.

2 (30m 46s):
So if they go the same as Instagram, I’m totally good with that. I think it’s going to only be better for business.

1 (30m 53s):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For sure.

2 (30m 55s):
You honestly want to see the pink go join my site.

1 (30m 58s):
Yeah, definitely. But not if you’re 12 or 13,

2 (31m 2s):
By the way, as

1 (31m 5s):
An aside, as an aside, they, they tried to Institute age verification in Europe and so far they’ve failed. Although I, I think eventually it’s going to happen and I also expect it to happen in the states. What are your feelings about

2 (31m 19s):
If everybody would do it together, it would be a good thing, but that’s the problem there isn’t, there’s no unity. Hm.

1 (31m 28s):
Yeah. I think, I think it’s something the industry should, you should do before it gets put on us, because if we do it, then it’s going to be a lot less traumatic and we won’t have governments telling us how to.

2 (31m 43s):
Yeah. But how do you get all the different countries to do it together?

1 (31m 47s):
That’s a good question. I mean, how

2 (31m 48s):
Do you talk to Brazil and Germany and, you know,

1 (31m 52s):
Get them to talk to him. Yeah, yeah. That

2 (31m 55s):
Would be nice. We can’t even get, you know, people in our own neighborhood to talk to each other. Yeah. But yeah, but

1 (32m 2s):
You’re yeah, but you’re, you’re in Florida. How does it Howard? How is it to live in Florida? By the way? I mean, I, you know, it seems like every

2 (32m 15s):
Week there’s no COVID here.

1 (32m 17s):
Yeah. Right? Yeah. No, Texas either since they’ve gotten rid of all their rules, again, we’re recording this in early March, so I’m sure the rules will be back on we by the time this, the strops, but that’s just the way things go. But I mean, it seems like every strange story comes out of Florida,

2 (32m 37s):
But there’s a reason for that. Yes. There’s, there’s a lot of crazy people in Florida, but there’s a lot of crazy people in every state, but Florida has this open policy where anything that happens, it goes up on the internet that night, like somehow an hour later doesn’t acknowledge. So there’s all these. Huh. And it doesn’t elsewhere. No it doesn’t. Yeah. So there’s, you know, these, all these websites forget the name of them, but there’s all these websites, but every they’re, they’re checking every hour, you know, Florida what happened because it’s publicly available like that. So they have fodder for their, you know, their clickbait or you know, all their stuff that they post, it’s not available for other, I think you really, you really

1 (33m 25s):
Think that’s the only thing I don’t know. Okay. Okay. All right. If you all know, there’s crazy people in Thailand, trust me and lots of them. Lots of them too. But I just, I just think there seems to be a different level of crazy in Florida. Just my

2 (33m 43s):
People have sex with their tailpipe of their car.

1 (33m 47s):
Yes. Yes. Things like that. Things like

2 (33m 49s):
That. I heard a man found.

1 (33m 53s):
Yeah, just Google, Google, Florida, man. You’re going to be, you’re going to be a, you’re going to be reading all day. I love it. I love it. So how does it feel being a veteran in this industry 18 years now? I mean, that’s, that’s really,

2 (34m 11s):
Whoever knew that would happen. It was supposed to be part time. Yeah. No, it was, it was just for fun. It was, I just wanted to be a little bit adventurous, crazy, have some fun and it just turned into this. So I just went with it. I mean, I was in building with my second husband and that started making more money than, than the building business. So I was like, well, this is more fun.

1 (34m 41s):
We’re in construction.

2 (34m 42s):
Yeah. We used to build log homes, custom log homes. Oh cool. Yeah. And then that kind of took a, a nosedive, you know, 2007, 2008. So it was perfect timing. Just switched over to this full time.

1 (34m 57s):
And, and what are your observations as to adult then an adult? No,

2 (35m 3s):
It’s completely different. You know, when I started right, we had store signings. You know, you did a movie, they made a poster of you, beautiful poster. You would have a box cover shoot. You would have beautiful hair and makeup. Oh, danny.com. The days of catered food and just spending all day there and they treat you like a queen pay so much money and it was so great. You know, you get to shoot anything you want. Yeah. And so they would make a poster of you. They would hang it up in the, in the stores, you would have store signings where people would come and shower you with money.

2 (35m 46s):
You would go on feature dancing tours in the clubs and people just throw money at you. You know, you would do radio interviews once in a while you had a press person telling you what to say, how to answer questions, maybe telling you how to dress, helping you out, you know, telling you what looks good on you now you’re just on your own. You are, you are the front line. You’re on Twitter. And if you say something stupid, oh boy.

1 (36m 17s):
And there’s a lot of that. There’s a lot of that.

2 (36m 20s):
It’s completely different, but it is better in a lot of ways too, because yes, we’re more in control, but you know, women are more in control now, but still not enough. I mean, if we, if we look at all the companies, you know, chatter, bait streaming my free cams, video secrets, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all the tube sites, women don’t own any of these companies. Right? It’s all male dominated. It’s still male dominated. I don’t care what anybody tells you. They keep trying to sell this, that women are in charge, but it’s, we’re getting better. We’re climbing the corporate ranks, but we’re not there yet. But

1 (36m 60s):
It doesn’t don’t platforms like, like only fans and platforms like that. The copycats, the other ones that are like that, don’t those kind of puts you in more control.

2 (37m 16s):
Yes, absolutely. That’s what I’m saying. We’re going in the right direction.

1 (37m 20s):
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And there are some females CEOs. I know Alison Alison’s had kink and you know, and there are some others, so yeah. Yeah. It’s getting better. It’s bedding getting better. So how did you get started in the industry

2 (37m 40s):
With beaver hunt? I was sitting at home, flipping through a hustler, lusting over some of the women. And I looked at my husband and said, do you think she’s high? You think I should send my pitcher in? Look at this contest. He’s like, yes, send it in, send it in. I’ll take the pictures. So we sent them in all of a sudden, you know, I was a semifinalist. They called me and he said, are you serious? Do you really want to do? I’m like, yeah. So they flew me out to LA, I got $1,500. They put us up in a hotel, paid both for our airfare, came out there and did a photo shoot. It was such a piece of cake. I’m like, wow, this is like taking candy from a baby.

2 (38m 22s):
And while I was there, they introduced me to, I can’t remember the girl’s name now, but they said, would you do a girl, girl photo layout with her? And I said, yes, absolutely. You know? So, so then that was nice layout in, was it Sherry magazine or one of those then, you know, the contest goes on for awhile, the readers and fans vote. So then I won the grand prize. Wow. So they brought us out again, this time was $5,000 prize. Got the cover of the magazine. And by then my phone was ringing off the hook w from LA direct wanting to, for me to start doing movies.

2 (39m 3s):
So yeah, so it was so easy because we were already swingers anyways. So it was, you know, no big deal,

1 (39m 11s):
Big leap. So, so what were you started with hustler? What were your feelings about Larry Flint passing

2 (39m 19s):
Tragic. He was a legend and he was so nice to me. As, as I told you, I was the oldest beaver they ever had. And so when I went in his office for him to give me the check, you know, I talked to him for a little bit and I said, you know, do you think I’m too old to be starting por? And he said, no, he talked to me a bit. And he said, I think that you can do anything you want, anything you decide to do in this business, you can do. So he was really nice to me.

1 (39m 49s):
That must have been quite a vote of confidence coming from him.

2 (39m 52s):
It was. Yeah, exactly.

1 (39m 55s):
So what’s the secret of staying in the business so long.

2 (39m 58s):
Don’t screw anybody over. Just always be fair and equal to everybody. Just do the right thing. Don’t get a bad reputation. It’s really as simple as that work hard. Yeah. I don’t know. I’ve had this network for this long and we’ve never had a problem with any talent ever. Like you would never find anybody out there gossiping about us or, or saying anything bad because we’re, we’re just really, really fair. Every decision that we ever make is based on what’s going to be better for the girls.

1 (40m 33s):
Yeah. I can tell that because you’ve referred to it many times. Yeah. And not screwing anybody over. I I’m a hundred percent on that, man, because I, I refuse to do that and word travels so fast. Oh my God. It travels fast. Especially with social social media. Now

2 (40m 52s):
You actually feel bad now that I was such a Hitler back in the day when I first started the, the network, you will do your show. I thought you were from Sweden. Not Germany. I’m actually parked German.

1 (41m 10s):
Oh, there you go. Okay. That

2 (41m 13s):
Was half an hour a week. And I’m not Sweden. My mother was Norwegian and my father was half German and half Norwegian.

1 (41m 21s):
I got what I said a half hour ago. Okay. So, because if it’s late at night for you, it’s early in the morning for me. So how long are you going to keep doing this?

2 (41m 33s):
I don’t. As long as people still want to see me naked, I guess somebody still wants to pay for me to take my clothes off. Who am I to argue?

1 (41m 43s):
That’s right. That’s right. And I don’t know. I look

2 (41m 47s):
At you. Do you know, do, may do ma, D E a U X, M a. I still can’t say her name properly. I should, but I bet she is. I think, oh, I celebrated her 60th birthday with her. Wow. Right before COVID last February. I think it was or January or something, whatever, in, in Mexico. So she must be 61 now 62 even. And she looks amazing. She has this flat, flat belly. She looks better than all the 20 and 30 year olds.

1 (42m 23s):
Yeah. I guess, I guess, you know, being over 30, you have to, you have to really watch what you eat and exercise, which you said you run, which is great.

2 (42m 37s):
Yeah. Yeah. But she keeps threatening to retire all the time. Every year. She says, this is my last year. This is my last year, eight years now.

1 (42m 48s):
And there’s sh and there she is. So you, you obviously take good care of yourself, which is important.

2 (42m 54s):
Yeah, I try. Yeah. I like talking about a lot though.

1 (42m 58s):
It shows, it shows, oh, dog shaking. I’ve had that on my interviews before too. We have four. Do you ever get tired of interacting with fans? Once

2 (43m 9s):
In awhile, I have to take a break for a day or two. So I will put my phone away and just not look at my email and just, you know, do civilian things. I’m actually involved in a lot of, I take some classes and I’m involved in a lot of other extracurricular activities outside of porn. So sometimes you just need to take a mental break from it. And then after about two days you start missing it like crazy. And then you want to jump back right back in, because I sex a lot on my phone with guys and I don’t know how, how other girls are, but when I’m sexting, I really am turned on. Like I really am into it.

2 (43m 49s):
I’m not faking it. I’m really actually having fun. There’s only, there’s a limit to how much you can do that. Right before it does start to kind of get old and get on your nerves. And you’re like, if I see one more, a Dick pic scream. So like doing it myself, you know, most girls, they have assistance that when you think you’re sexting with them, it’s really not them. I mean, I have, I know girls that it’s actually their mother.

1 (44m 22s):
Yeah. I was going to say, unlike a lot of them, you’re not 300 pounds.

2 (44m 28s):
No, I know a girl that she had her grandmother working time for her answering the, the sexting and sending out her pictures.

1 (44m 37s):
Oh my God. Oh my God.

2 (44m 40s):
Yeah. It’s really me.

1 (44m 41s):
I’m sure granting was hot.

2 (44m 44s):
And that’s why some of those guys get irritated at me too. They’ll be, they’ll be texting me at 4:00 AM and there’ll be mad by 5:00 AM. They’re like, where are you? Why aren’t you answering me? 6:00 AM. Oh, well, fuck you, bitch. You can’t answer my texts. I’m like, hello, I’m sleeping. You know? Cause they’re used to other accounts where someone’s going to always be answering them because they have them on shifts. They have different people doing eight hour shifts, always taking care of their accounts so they can get the maximum amount of money out of it. But you’re never actually talking to the object of your desire. Yeah.

1 (45m 15s):
That’s, that’s true. It’s kind of like in business, you know, I get it. I get emails two, three in the morning, you know, and they’re frantically wanting to talk to me and it’s like, well, unless you’re, unless you’re in bed with me, you’re not going to talk to me. So there you go. So I originally met you through ex-business dot net posting. How do you feel about industry boards in general?

2 (45m 40s):
I always feel guilty that I’m not on the boards as much as they want me to be. I feel like I’m, I’m failing them somehow, but you know, if you’re on a board all day, having these huge conversations, you can’t be actually working. I mean, how do you have time to be doing your work, right. Unless you’re at a point in your career where you have everything organized and everybody else doing all the work, you know, I still physically have a lot of work to do. Like I said, I edit videos. I put them up and I’m sexting, I’m shooting, you know? Right. I’m working out. I mean, the only time I’m not working usually is I’m either exercising, walking the dogs or eating.

2 (46m 24s):
Other than that, if I’m awake, I’m working. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I just don’t have time to post on the boards and then people always make me feel guilty that I’m not contributing. Yeah. And then there’s, then there’s boards where people get into all these political fights and you start insulting each other. And then you’re just like, I don’t want to read this.

1 (46m 47s):
Yeah. That’s been, that’s been, that’s been an issue. That’s definitely been an issue that I, I have problems with. And I’ve, I’ve been an advocate of a separate political board. So if people want to argue about Donald Trump, they can do it elsewhere because when it comes to to business, I’d rather not talk about it. I’d rather not talk about him anyway. But when it comes to business, I’d rather not talk about it. That’s that’s for Facebook who keeps banning me for wishing people happy birthday. But anyway, I’ve

2 (47m 19s):
Had six Facebook accounts closed. I’ve given up. I haven’t.

1 (47m 23s):
Yeah. But yeah. But yeah, but Vicki, this isn’t about business. I got Heidi. Got it. I got a 30 day for wishing a friend happy birthday. Cause I kind of told a joke that made it sound like hate speech. So he said, so, so they said it’s hate speech. And then I got another one for a meme that I reposted from Facebook before my 30 day ban. I got another 30 day ban. Finally shut the account. Now as yesterday, my business account, it says your access is limited and I can’t even like a post. So yeah, I’m about ready to give up. I’m just about ready to give up. So, and

2 (48m 3s):
The thing is they banned me all the time and they leave all the imposters. Yeah, of course. If you go look on Facebook, you’ll probably find about six, eight, 10 Vicki vets and none of them

1 (48m 13s):
And lots and lots of Russian trolls. So they never ban. So would you ever sell VNA? Hint, hint, hint.

2 (48m 27s):
Oh boy. Wow. I don’t know. Not, not any time soon. I don’t think I’m done yet. And of course, if I ever was to do something like that, I mean, how do you S what’s it, what’s it worth? How do you sell it? I

1 (48m 42s):
Mean, we can talk offline. We can talk. We can talk. Yeah, we can talk offline, but we can talk offline about it. It would be complicated, but it’s certainly something we could come to a, you have to get

2 (48m 53s):
Every girl’s agreement that, you know, you’re going to keep this together as one unit and sell it and everyone’s going to have to be happy with the, with the terms.

1 (49m 4s):
Interesting. That’d be interesting. Well, yeah, yeah. It would be a, it would be complicated, but Hey, I’ve dealt with complicated deals before. Yeah.

2 (49m 15s):
But, but not any time soon anyway. Cause I don’t think I’m quite done yet.

1 (49m 21s):
I can tell, I can tell the passion. The passion is still there. My dare. The passion is still there.

2 (49m 28s):
No, I’m pretty happy. I think it’s probably the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. Honestly. I

1 (49m 33s):
Can tell, I can tell it shows. So what’s the best advice you can give to someone just starting out in the industry,

2 (49m 41s):
Besides on your own URL, don’t do things that you don’t want to do. I don’t know how many girls have seen that. Got pushed into doing anal when they didn’t want to. If you don’t do it at home, don’t do it on camera. Right? I shot one time with this girl that she was drinking vodka at eight o’clock in the morning on our Shane, because it was the only way that she could do it, you know? And then that stuff just messes with your head later on and try every platform. It’s we have so much more power. Now when I was working for companies, you had no say over anything.

2 (50m 21s):
I mean, I was, I think one of the lucky ones, because I could have a no list and say who I didn’t want to work with, but a lot of the newer girls coming in, they just put you with whoever and you don’t have a say about it. I mean, I didn’t want to do ATM. And they tried to force me to do that. And you know, it just, wasn’t my thing. They, they give you a toy with no batteries in it. And they’re like faking orgasm. I’m like, why would I want to fake an orgasm? Put the fucking batteries in and don’t have a real one. What one of you got much better? I mean, and they, and they go, no, you’re an actress. Act like, no, go to the store and get me the batteries.

1 (51m 2s):
Give me the Energizer bunny. Dammit.

2 (51m 5s):
Yeah. But that’s the kind of thing you have no control over anything. So now, you know, th that’s why I basically stopped in 2006. I only shot for myself for my own site. So I could shoot with who I wanted, what I wanted when I wanted, how I wanted, you know, just have control and own everything. So I’m still making money now off of content that I shot in 2006, seven, eight, nine, it’s all up on the tubes and you know, everything’s making money, whereas everyone else, that’s not going to happen. You’re you’re, you’re like a day labor. You just get paid one time for the scene and that’s it. You don’t see another dime off of it.

2 (51m 46s):
Right? Right. Advice own as much as you can yourself and put it out there on every avenue, multi-purpose everything and try every platform. And some are going to take off in the summer. Not figure it out.

1 (52m 3s):
Makes sense. Well, Vicky, this was delightful. I’d really like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we have a chance to do it again really soon. My broker tip today is part, one of how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a campsite, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site or something else. If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want? And what niche? There are literally hundreds of niches and many sub-niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears are mature, bareback, Asian, Latino, amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification.

1 (52m 54s):
Plus there’s hardcore shocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms straight has even more sub niches. I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site or I want to buy a pay site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like man, and want to make money on a straight site. That’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays a part, what is your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning.

1 (53m 36s):
Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a cam site with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’ll need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to comedian podcast, hostess and performer, Cape Kennedy.

1 (54m 19s):
nd next week we’ll be talking to podcast hostess, comedian and adult star Kate Kennedy.

0 (1h 6m 55s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest Vicky Vette. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Andreas Bischoff of the TES Affiliate Conferences.

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Now here’s our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker, we’re proud to list for sale. A network of two mainstream flirt chat sites. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and New Zealand, both their mainstream flirt chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis.

1 (1m 26s):
They have a loyal customer base of 27,000 plus real members with many customers still active from 2017. Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with very low overhead and a proven ROI of 900% on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing. These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep of the sites requires very little time and most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 plus strong member database.

1 (2m 7s):
Many great markets are yet on tap for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA. Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites now for only 484,000 euros. Now time for this week’s interview my guest today on a don’t say it broker tuck his entry ass bitch off of the T E S affiliate conferences. Andrea, thanks for being with us today, Anna, don’t say broker talk. Thank you very much for having me, Bruce. It’s a pleasure now, and it’s been a long time coming. My friend, I’ve been begging you to get on my show now, Andrea, this is one of the two organizers of the T S affiliate conferences and the Island gathering TES affiliate conferences, formally the European summit.

1 (2m 57s):
And before that I’ve got a good memory. The Barcelona summit

2 (3m 1s):
Were founded in 2009 with the event bringing together professionals from the online entertainment industry, e-commerce financial gaming, gambling, dating Forex, binary options, health nutraceuticals, and many other markets for an intensive three-day networking event. Their next event is their first hybrid live and virtual event in Maribela Spain, July 3rd through the fifth. Now from the outset, a T E S was intent on creating a great networking experience for its attendees and delegates because in our high tech world, it’s still of great importance that excellent relationships be developed and maintained as these are the cornerstones of building a successful business.

2 (3m 49s):
And let me just say that Andreas and Walter run the premier conferences in our industry now and Dre us, how were the preparations coming for the upcoming hybrid T S affiliate conference

3 (4m 2s):
Coming along actually pretty, pretty well, obviously not everything depends this time on, on us. Yes. So that’s why you might’ve noticed that we’ve opened a virtual registration already on first off offer June. So people can already register for the hybrid part for the virtual part of the hybrid conference. Yes. Which they are doing very, very much in the first five days we had 500 registration, which is a new record, new Bonnie record. Yeah. So, so if we would keep that up, we would come up to 5,000 attendees in June. So it’s big numbers where we’re talking.

3 (4m 41s):
Obviously people are taking us off of, up on our offer regarding the, the live part of the hybrid conference. Actually, we’re waiting for news from the Spanish government today. Today’s the 9th of May of, for the listeners to know. And this is a big day in Spain until two day in 9th of May. Spain has been in a, in a lockdown. So today is the government will announce what happens tomorrow. So Walter and I are, yeah, just waiting for the news to, to drop in because that will obviously have an impact on what we can do and what we can not do.

3 (5m 22s):
And so basically we expect by next week to the Spanish government to tell us exactly how many entrance tickets we’re allowed to, to sell, which is the main thing currently as of today, we are already allowed to host an outdoor garden conference. Could if it would happen today, it would be only with 150 people. But again, we expect that number to go up by next week since the overall development in Europe is finally a very, very positive one was a lot of people getting vaccinated as these days and even more in the, in June.

3 (6m 2s):
So by July, whoever wants to attend ha has had a chance to, to get vaccinated or to, to probably attend with a, was a valid PCR test or something similar. Again, those rules we’ll find out from the Andrew Lewis and from the Spanish government this week. Unfortunately this interviews coming a week too early for, for this new spot we’ll make, we’ll make, we’ll make sure to get the word out, any help. And therefore we will open life registration on 1st of June, 2021 at 8:30 AM Madrid time. I say that again, that is 8:30 AM Madrid time on the 1st of June, why I repeat this is very important because I do not expect that we will have enough entrance tickets for everyone who wants to attend.

3 (6m 56s):
Maybe the Spanish government allows us to have 300 attendees or 400 or 500 or a thousand. But what as ever does that number will be that we’re allowed to sell on entrance to goods. I’m sure it’s smaller than the amount of people who want to attempt did it because people are desperate to get out of the house today. Everyone me included. I’m so, so happy to get out of the house finally. So the demand will be huge and the offer will be small. So that means set your alarm June 1st, 8:30 AM, Madrid time first come, first serve. So you snooze you lose. I am fairly sure we will not have enough tickets for every one.

3 (7m 38s):
So be aware of that. It’s a warning. Okay.

2 (7m 45s):
Now, now given the current situation, I mean, it sounds at this point, like you do think you’re gonna, you’re gonna still have a live portion, right?

3 (7m 55s):
I’m growing more confident every day. I mean, if you would have asked me the same question two weeks ago, four weeks ago, I probably would have given you a rather negative outlook. But as of today, Walter and I are very, very confident that we’ll be alive portion against things are going very well. Find it even in Europe, is that great news. I mean, in, in, in Germany that just have 1.1 million vaccines gone out per day. That’s huge numbers. There, there, the second provider opening up here, more, more vaccines will be pushed out.

3 (8m 35s):
It’s going better by the day in Germany. Now anyone can get a vaccine any age doesn’t matter anymore. So anyone sinks are really, really picking up the North of Germany, for example, has, has opened up now with its hotels and its beaches and everything. So the, the, the, the good news it’s pouring in every, every day where again, two, three, two, three weeks only go, it was all bad news. And I would really, really sad. We’re not sure, but as of today, as that, it’s only good news coming in every day. And we got another two to two months to go.

3 (9m 17s):
So by July things will look, look quite, quite, quite well. And also the latest news, if you might’ve read it is Spain will open to all countries in the world in June. So that’s another great, great news. So wherever you’re from in the world, you can from June on enter the country. And that means that there’s no, no reason why you wouldn’t be able to attend our conference at the beginning of, of July. And by the way, by the way that in the intro, you sat at three til five, actually it’s a second Tilth.

2 (9m 51s):
Second to the fifth. Sorry about that. Yes, yes, yes. I appreciate that. Now, why did you decide to host a hybrid conference now, considering I know in the past you haven’t been a fan of, of the virtual conferences.

3 (10m 7s):
I’m still not, of course everyone likes life better than, than a hybrid. So our core business will always be hybrid. I mean, we’re, we’re getting out of the pen damn make we’re not out there yet. What we’ve seen due to the, to the loss-making nature of virtual conferences currently, there’s a, there’s a hole in the market, a gap, and of 2020, you will have you’ll remember every week there was a virtual conference going on and we said, why should we go in there if, if there’s a virtual conference every week.

3 (10m 46s):
So the why not lose that money in an overcrowded market. Currently, as you’ve seen, everyone has a chance to lose money and nobody’s doing virtual conferences anymore in our industry. So we figured at the moment we can only host a couple of hundred people in, in <inaudible>. So why not give a couple of thousand people that chance to, to experience that life event from the homes? And we’ll, we’ll see how it pans out is that we will lose a lot of money. And so the plan is still to, to, to host hybrid conference in the future.

3 (11m 28s):
But again, yeah, we, we have to look at its financials and how much, the life events that will then have to subsidize the, the virtual event, but it is also a good, a good, I see it as a marketing tool to get our name out. I mean, it also, for, it’s always been only, let’s say 2000 people, but if we go to the hybrid way, we can have three, four, five, 10,000 people eventually. And some of, some of those lost making virtual people will say, Hey, you, what I’ve seen there, and now I’ve experienced what they’re doing remotely and looks interesting too, to actually be there physically. And then that might be a way that the virtual part actually pays back.

3 (12m 13s):
It’s stepped to the, to the life part. And I, I, I see it as a, as a marketing, it’s a sunk cost and it’s a marketing expense for us.

1 (12m 22s):
Sure, absolutely. Now talk a little bit about the venue of the hybrid T S affiliate conference. What does the preliminary schedule look like? And are there going to be parties?

3 (12m 34s):
The, the venue will be the wonderful five-star hotel resort located in, in mafia. It’s a Don Carlos resort and they have some huge tropical gardens. It’s really, really a beautiful, is that a tropical garden? It’s, it’s wonderful and close to the close to the beach and close to a Nikki beach club. So it’s, it’s, it’s a great location, even though vaccines are being rolled out and everything is going great, we figured people would still not be so comfortable to be inside. And so we, we, according to the experts, there’s basically no chance to close to no chance to infect yourself outdoor.

3 (13m 15s):
So we, we set to keep everyone safe and relaxed. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll do our first outdoor event ever. And my BI has the nice, that’s why we came up with smoke. Maria has the adventure that it it’s one of the driest spots of all of Europe. So it only rains on average two days a month in July. So the chance that we will be effected by rain is very small. So we’re very confident that we can host everything outdoor and yeah, I think it’ll be just nicer. June. July is, is one of the best months in, in my bed’s not too hot.

3 (13m 56s):
And yeah, so we’ll be able to build an ice, chill out a business launch outdoors, and there are people can, can have a cocktail and talk business and walk around to the tropical gardens. And, and yeah, I think it’s a really, really nice and special setting.

1 (14m 14s):
Nice. Now what COVID-19 measures will be taken for the conference,

3 (14m 18s):
That is, again, a question that comes unfortunately, week two earlier, because we will get the, the news, as I said today from the Spanish, government’s quite difficult to say, but I think they will be less restrictive than as of today, as of today outside. I think you would have to wear a mask and to keep a distance that’s all. And if you are seated on a table of up to six people as of today, you would be allowed to take your mask off until July a lot can. So what I just described is let’s say the worst case scenario until July. I, I expect that this restriction might, might become a little bit easier still.

3 (15m 5s):
I, I would recommend to the people to be relaxed. Yeah. Wear a mask, keep your meta 50 distance. And, and then I think we should all be, be, be fine as for the requirement requirements to enter again, we’re waiting that information today. Obviously, if you’re vaccinated, I’m sure you will not have any, any issues. If you do a, a daily test, I’m also fairly sure that that will not be an issue. If that can be a quick test. I don’t know if it has to be a PCR test. I don’t know. So unfortunately the interview comes a week to two early, but I’m sure it will all be a manageable if said everything’s going well.

3 (15m 51s):
And also obviously Spain creates business and, and one student to do the best to, to, to host conference again. But on the other hand, not at any price, I just read that my, my beer is one of the highest certified con cities in the world when it comes to COVID-19 measures protection. So I have to look up the article, but they got two or three certificates of excellence when it comes to managing Covid and, and Corona.

3 (16m 32s):
So your, your, your listeners might want to verify what I just said by just Googling it on, on the internet, but maybe BS one of the, of the, of the cities in the world that is handling <inaudible> grown-up measures the best.

1 (16m 52s):
Great. Now, now traveling during these times can be really challenging. Are you going to be able to provide attendees with a visa invitation letter in order to help them ease their travel plans to, to Maribel engine in July?

3 (17m 7s):
Yes. Yes, of course. Of course currently traveling is not as easy as it used to be. So I’m, I’m sure governments will require extra information. White people must travel and cannot, cannot avoid it, but we’re happy to, as always, we’re happy to, to help our, our clients with whatever we can. So if they need a visa invitation letter that States the reason why is they’re going to Spain of, of course we will provide them with, was that an with any help we can give

1 (17m 40s):
Now, what is the price going to be for a live entrance pass? And what’s the price for a virtual entrance pass

3 (17m 48s):
The price. The for life part will be the same as, as always our standard price of 399 euros per, per person. And again, as, as you know, there’ll be a lot of food included, a lot of drinks included. So people get, get their money’s worth. And obviously a lot of business networking as, as always the virtual tickets are for another week for, for free. So anyone can pick up a virtual ticket for, for free. That’s no reason not to not register. Yeah. That’s basically the pricing. Okay.

2 (18m 24s):
Okay. Now I understand you advise that people should not buy their flights and book their hotel rooms just yet.

3 (18m 32s):
Yeah, of course. Since, as of today, we do not know exactly the measures from the, from the Spanish government. So those we will know in the next couple of days, and again, there will not, I want to stress that there will not be enough entrance tickets for everyone for the life event. So if you buy an hour of flight and you book your hotel room and you sent me an email and say, Hey, I must have a ticket, sorry, it’s not going to work this time. I never understood people that first booked their flight. And first booked the hotel and don’t have an entrance ticket in their hand. So-so could be very good.

2 (19m 9s):
It’s called, it’s called it’s called ass backwards. Enteritis.

3 (19m 15s):
Yeah. And then I’m the bad guy and people say, you must, you must give me an entrance ticket because I already have my hotel and my, my, my, my flight. Nope, no, it does not work this time. So by your entrance tickets, see on June 1st, if you can get one of the few entrance tickets, and if that happens, then book your hotel and then book your, your flight because otherwise you might not get in. And then, okay. Then you might just have a nice vacation,

2 (19m 43s):
Nice vacation in Mirabelle exactly. Across the street from the hotel. So you can wave at everyone,

3 (19m 49s):
Which is not such a bad plan. No,

2 (19m 52s):
Not at all, man. I, you know, if I, if I ended up going to the live portion, which talking to you now, that’s sounding sounding better and better since I’m going to be getting vaccinated starting next week. Hey, you might just see me there, man, but I’ll, I’ll make sure I’ve got an entrance ticket. Of course, you know, me I’ll have a sponsorship, so I’ll have an entrance ticket. And one thing I should mention here on that end, I have only paid for a sponsorship with one show over the years. And that’s the different iterations of TES. Those of the, been the only ones that I have determined that I should be investing in.

2 (20m 34s):
So I don’t even know if you know that Andreas, but first time I invested was a first time I did a sponsorship was way back when I did the massage sponsorship in Prague. When I think it was Prague where you had the real strange hotel that year, how was, how was it different kind of place? And then, you know, over the years I’ve continued as a sponsor because it works. So anyone who’s on the fence about sponsoring do it. These guys do the job right now. You talked about live attendees. How many people in the end do you think are going to join the conference virtually?

3 (21m 15s):
That’s a good question. Obviously. I know. That’s why I asked it. We, we do have an internal bet. So Walter took the number 3000 attendees and put my money on 5,000 attendees. So I, the truth might be somewhere in between, but usually when it comes to those forecasts until now, I think I pretty much won any bet against Walter again, in, in, when it comes to attending numbers. So usually I’m not, not, not wrong often. So, but again, what does that 3000 people, I say 5,000 people and yeah, you will tell me on, on July 2nd with the winners.

2 (22m 2s):
Oh, that’s it. That’s interesting. Okay. Next time I go to the race track. I’m gonna, I’m gonna bring you with me. Okay. So let’s say you really managed to attract 3000 to 5,000 and I wouldn’t bet against you, by the way, to, to your a hybrid T S affiliate conference, how are these people going to be able to network and find each other? And also how are they going to be able to find the live in 10 days?

3 (22m 26s):
That’s a very good point. That’s, what’s also the reason we looked at various platforms to host our virtual, the virtual part of our conference. And we specially looked at the two heavyweights. There are only two in the market, which is hopping as you might know, umbrella. And so there’s no matchmaking function was hopping. So we decided against them Brella on the other hand has a very great networking functionality. So what we did is we first divided all the attendees into, into groups, like for example, at network affiliate program, if the affiliate program affiliates, hosting companies, payment providers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

3 (23m 19s):
So that’s a, that’s a main, main group. And those groups, then we subdivided by vertical. So for example, gaming, gambling, adult dating for ex neutral health, wealth, et cetera. So that will allow the attendees to say exactly, okay, I’m looking for a payment provider for dating, or I’m looking for an affiliate for Nutra, or I’m looking for an ad network that does all verticals. So you can, you can set up your, your request very, very, very detailed this time.

3 (24m 1s):
And then the system will sought the leads by the matches. So let’s say you met with someone five times, then he goes on the top. Then the next guy you match with, let’s say four times goes to the next and, and, and so on. So the more relevant leads will immediate jump on you. And then you only have to click set up a meeting, and then you can set up a meeting with, with your top lead and at your convenience and, and take it from, from there. So it’s, it’s, it’s highly efficient.

2 (24m 38s):
Cool. So people can already network and set up meetings as we speak,

3 (24m 42s):
Unfortunately, not, but only allows us to use the platform two weeks prior. But, but, but, but it also makes, makes sense because you want to have fun. You want to have a certain amount of people networking and beyond the platform at a time. So if we would launch it now, then there’s one guy in Asia and one guy in Latin America and on there, and nothing really happens. So then people get disappointed and say, what is this a is nothing happening here. But if we launch it two weeks prior, show everyone has two weeks to set up their schedule, which is more than, than enough if you’re serious, but then also on the, on you’ll see that there’s action on the, on the platform.

3 (25m 26s):
So there’ll be thousands of people on there at the same time. And then it becomes a lot, lot more interactive and fun if you see the things that are happening in more exciting. But, but yeah, so the rules from Brella, we can open two weeks before the show. And I think that’s plenty of time to get your schedule full of, of meetings. If you only have, if you, if you already have them, pre-arranged in front of you and you only have to click send meeting requests and written in and request, you should be done in a, in a couple of hours.

2 (25m 58s):
Yeah. I agree now with that being said, is this going to be the largest TES affiliate conference ever

3 (26m 5s):
Looking at the current numbers? For sure. I mean, we are with a set of 500 registration the first five days. If we would keep that up, you can make it to the mass. It will be huge numbers. So we’re now a quarter to our record after six, seven days, actually eight, seven days, seven and a half days. So yeah, we still got two months ahead of us. So unless something really, really, really, really terribly strange happens. Yeah. There’s no way that’s not going to be the largest show. We, I mean, we haven’t even started, started putting out paid advertising op, and so yeah, it, it, it will be the largest show for it, for sure.

3 (26m 50s):
No, no, no, no doubt. Sure.

1 (26m 53s):
Now the conference was scheduled for the second through the 5th of July, 2021. Now with the 4th of July being such a huge holiday in the U S do you, did you take this into consideration? And if so, how do you solve the problem?

3 (27m 9s):
To be honest, we did not take into consideration at the beginning. So what’s the huge screw up from what I might find. So, yeah, so that was really bad. But then luckily as always, our, our clients are taking care of us. So our, our clients are watching our backs. So I received an email that said, Hey, Andrea, as you are aware, this 4th of July is a huge holiday. I know it’s a huge holiday. And I know what I mean, water is hot, is half embarrassed. And he knows, I mean, I, I don’t know what, so, so, but long, long story short, we moved the, the, the virtual part of the conference to the second and the 3rd of July, so that it will be on the first two days of the, of the conference.

3 (27m 53s):
So the entire virtual part of the conference will be over by it. 10 o’clock, Los Angeles, time, 10 o’clock in the morning, Los Angeles time on the cert. So by noon on the third, everyone can be starting their long, 4th of July weekend. So yeah. Do work, work the second insert in the morning hours of the U S and then be done by 10:00 AM, Los Angeles time America, lots of people from New York get off a little bit earlier. Right. And then, yeah, your, your, your, your long weekend starts on the third at noon, which I think is fine.

3 (28m 35s):
So even on the cert, you can already party into the force without we’re over by then. So I think it’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s a decent, a decent fix call

1 (28m 45s):
Now, besides a very prominent owner of adult site broker. I can’t think of his name right now. Who else will be speaking at the conference?

3 (28m 54s):
Oh yeah. So many great speakers coming on board it’s it’s it’s, it’s amazing. It’s, it’s, it’s one of the few advantages that virtual has by a life in the past. We always managed to attract good speakers from, from all types of walks, people from the industry, but people also from outside of the industry to bring in knowledge and, and new ideas. But the good thing with virtual is usually when we bring in a, a good speaker, it costs us five digits and more in euros, but it was the virtual part. They can do it.

3 (29m 35s):
That’s no, no, no, no flight costs in involved. There’s no hotel cost involved. There’s no F and D costs involved so we can attract very good speakers with the lower budget. So that’s really one of the few advantages that I see in a live in a virtual event over life events. So the, the amount of, if anyone goes as of today, Tuesday to the schedule, you’ll see that this is the, the strongest schedule we’ve ever had in the past 12 years. By, by far, there, there, there are people like worldwide top 25 email market here is they’re they’re, they’re they’re really, really, I mean, they’re the top SEO experts really, really strong people that usually usually speak only speak at a conference with tens of thousands of attendees.

3 (30m 31s):
And we, we, we attracted them this time. So, so, and again, I mean, it’s only the ninth, 9th of May, as, as we speak, we, we got another two months to add speakers. Our, our, our, our issue will be more that we will not have have enough speaking slots because we’re already nearly, nearly full. And again, we have two months to go, but by quality, this is the best schedule by, by light years that we’ve ever ever offered to, to our attendees and people can, and people can watch it for free.

1 (31m 5s):
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So you’re going to have people from all over the world, as well as speaking and attending. How are you planning to deal with all these different time zones?

3 (31m 18s):
Yeah, that was kind of a challenge, but so I, I figured, yeah, the, the world Europe is kind of in the middle and depending what world map you take, but the one that I use has Europe in the middle. So it goes yeah, right to left from Australia to, to Los Angeles state, basically. So we figured that speakers that are relevant to the Australia, to the Asian and Australian market, or come from there, we, we schedule on the European time of 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock and 12 o’clock. So that allows people from Asia to, to watch those people in on their time zone.

3 (32m 5s):
Then Europeans come in, come on at one o’clock two o’clock, three o’clock. So that’s fine for everyone. And then the American speakers and audience comes on at four o’clock, five o’clock, six o’clock. So that is in the morning hours of the U S but morning, cool morning hours. Not, not middle of the night, so no, nobody has to get up for our virtual event. So, so whatever concerns the U S will be in the, in the, in the normal us morning hours, whatever happens concerns to the, to the, to Asia will be in the normal Asian evening hours.

3 (32m 46s):
And we’ll have a concern to Europe will be in the normal Europe, European afternoon hours. So nobody has to set the alarm to fall out of that, because I have heard that from other conferences now, of course, I mean, that’s,

2 (33m 3s):
I just ended up Scott. I just ended up skipping a bunch of them. Cause it was like, well, wait a minute. Do I really want to get up in the middle of the night for this? And usually the answer was no.

3 (33m 13s):
Yeah, no. I mean, people that are people that love what we do and then what motivated to work with us. But I mean, there’s a limit to what we can ask them.

2 (33m 20s):
Agreed, agreed. Now, now, coming back to what we spoke about at the beginning, isn’t it extremely expensive to host a virtual conference and between the cost of the virtual platform, the live streaming production company, the live chat software and the Q and it for the Q and A’s the live chat moderators, et cetera, this must be really expensive. And it’s also, as far as I know, the first of its kind, how are you and Walter going to manage to not have to take a major loss on the virtual part?

3 (33m 52s):
Honestly speaking, I don’t see things that we will manage. I think we will take a major loss. It’s also something, if we would’ve known that before, maybe we would have thought about it a couple more times because it’s, it’s something where you buy into something. And then later on you realize what, what comes on top. So basically the, the, the platform is, is a, is five digits. So there, I just taught water. Okay. It’s a marketing deck. We pay for, we, we, we lose that money and, and fine. But then once you get started with, with the, with the core platform, which you would sync core platform, core costs suddenly realized now for the live chat, you need to pay extra for the live streaming, which will be in video quality.

3 (34m 47s):
You can go low ball, then it’s free, or you can take real TV, studio, quality money into the hand, and then it’s, then it’s suddenly your lat, a larger costs than, than the platform. So imagine that, and then you have for the game-ification, you need something for, for, for, if you want to have a life TV, quality host for the virtual end, for the, for the life. Part of that, that’s big money. Then obviously if you offer a chat, you, you need a chat moderator. It’s not big money, but it adds up. And no, if you take all of this together, yeah. You’re easily looking 50 to a hundred thousand euros, which I did not expect at the beginning, just for, for a website to use, to have the right, to use the website.

3 (35m 33s):
So, no, it’s, it’s, it’s huge money. And obviously, yeah, I mean, people prefer to spend their life. I mean, it’s nicer to have a live booth in a virtual booth, but we have a couple of people who, who will support us and reduce that loss. But I, if we would, if we will break, even I would be really, really, really shocked. It’s not going to happen. But again, I mean, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a marketing expense. I mean, it keeps our brand out there. So people know that we’re not, that gives us something to talk about.

3 (36m 13s):
Talk about also, as I said, it gives us a, the possibility to tap into what’s possible future markets. So, I mean, it’s a small wet webmaster in, in Asia and in, or a medium webmaster in Asia, in the us or Latin America or Africa or Australia or wherever outside of Europe has to think twice. If he, if he books a flight for, for a thousand or more euros to a conference that he has never heard of a scene. So, but he can always go online for free now and check out what we do then. Yeah. He might say this, they look what they do looks it’s worthwhile.

3 (36m 58s):
I might might want to do that investment.

2 (37m 0s):
Yeah. I tell everybody I talk to in address, literally, I tell you, I talked to a guy today right before you, and I said, you know, you should go to this show and you know, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely a show that, that everyone in the industry should go to. Now. Now, if one of our listeners would like to support you guys in your effort to provide the industry with a solid virtual networking platform, are there still live or virtual sponsorships left? I hope so. Because as I told you, I’m going to do it. And if so, what kind of sponsorships will be available for your hybrid TES affiliate conferences in July, 2021? And we can’t forget September 20, 21.

3 (37m 43s):
Yeah. For the life part. It’s a, again, certain sponsorships obviously depend on, on what we hear back from the Spanish government. And then they lose government as a force. For example, as a foot today, I could not sell a bar sponsorship because bar areas are forbidden. So we would have to find a different solution. So it was, I would probably just walk waiter between the, the business launches and provide you cocktails because you are not allowed to stand in that the bar as of today. Also, we also, we cannot sell huge business launches because as of today, only six people are allowed to, to sit together. So certain things we still have to wait for a week to, to see how it pans out, but other things for the life part we can already offer.

3 (38m 31s):
The, the main thing we offer at the moment is a, is a business launch for, for people outdoors, with nice chill out garden furniture. Because we know as of today, we already are allowed to host groups of six, but we expect things to get better, but to be on the safe side, we just sell things before. So if in the unlikely things that things do go bad, for whatever reason, we still have the, the thing that the government can say, okay, we don’t allow you six anymore. Now we allow you four and we’re still fine. So we, we, we, we take a very conservative stance. They’re smart. That’s, that’s the live part. The virtual part obviously is easier.

3 (39m 13s):
So there will be virtual business launches where people can connect their Twitter account. They use YouTube account, the Instagram account, all, all the social media accounts for, for potential clients to check out. Also, it allows you to upload all type of, of information. So such as PDFs, PowerPoints, videos, images, any, any, anything that, that you have regarding your, your, your, your, your company speech, you can upload a promotional video. You can upload any, any type of digital data you can upload to your, the show business launch.

3 (39m 57s):
And also the business launch we’ll have a live chat function. So if someone comes along, you can pop you a message and say, Hey, can we set up a meeting? And then you can, yeah. Send them as a meeting offer. Also, the good thing is, I mean, you don’t have to be as the vegetables always. You can also just, just, if you’re, if you’re away from your desk, then someone sends a message. Hey, I want to meet you and see was, then you can always say, I’m back in an hour or, or a scheduled meeting with me at my, at my convenience, or I’m sleeping, or I’m sleeping. Yeah. You can, on your check, you can leave a message saying opening hours of my business launches off from whatever eight, until 10:00 AM, Los Angeles time and send people know what’s the best time is to hit your ops there.

3 (40m 50s):
So it’s a, it’s quite, it’s quite, quite good. And apart from that, you have people can, can buy what’s called a breakout room. So they’re, they can be with 50 people of which 12 people can be on screen with audio and video with them. That’s more, yeah. If you want to look sales pitch, then you sit in there and yeah. Everyone can listen to UNF. It’s, it’s very interactive. So since people on, on the, on the video, so they can ask you a question, you can immediately answer them and that’s another option to sponsor. So it’s very interactive in contrary to the, to speak on a stage, you know, stage small presentation.

3 (41m 37s):
But even that we will offer a Q and a session at the end so that people can, can ask you question. And, but again, the break it’s, the breakout rooms are more for, for corporate presentations, more interactive, and that’s another sponsorship. Yep. And then, yeah, the last one is the big one. Yeah. You can become a hat call a headlining sponsor. So that means that what we produce is TV quality. So like any, any TV station, broadcasting station they’ll, you can have video clips played before the speaker goes on the main stage. You can have video clips. Once a speaker is stunned with on the main stage can have a branded frame around the main speaker.

3 (42m 22s):
So that’s, that’s the top notch sponsorship. That’s the only four of those per poor main stage. How much, how much those costs. We priced them at 6,999 euros. But your brand is in all, all of the nine speeches on a, on the main stage. Yes. There’s no, there’s no way that people will, will overlook your, your brand. And obviously, obviously water and I will we’ll do additional sinks for, for, for this group of people. Obviously we’ll, we’ll spread it, spread that on, on social media, we’ll announce it in a newsletter.

3 (43m 4s):
We’ll, we’ll make sure that your investment is, is protected. And it’s always with us after the show, we will not disappear. If someone is not happy with what you paid and what we deliver. Walter and I are also available after the show at all, my clients have my email, my, my phone number, my, and my WhatsApp, my, my Skype, my Facebook messenger, my LinkedIn people, this we’re easy to find. And we usually respond with within 12 hours or less. So for us, it’s the deal is not, not written in stone, right?

3 (43m 44s):
So if they pay, pay that money and later on, they can justify that they didn’t make them money’s worth back or any of our sponsor ever. This goes to all our sponsors. If, if someone does not make his money back and he has a case, we will, we will be there after the show and we’ll solve it. I can give you an example. Don’t want to take too much time with that. But in Prague, in proc, we used to be in a hotel called taco bell. And that, that had a upstairs, the show area and downstairs pizza pizzeria, which we turned into a show floor.

3 (44m 25s):
So, because we didn’t have much space to grow there. So long story short, we, since it was a small hotel on only two levels, that there would be people downstairs, but no, everyone stayed upstairs. Nobody went downstairs. So, so, so it was a bad deal for the people downstairs. So even during the comp conference, on the last day of the conference, I went to all the sponsors downstairs. And I said, to look some your, your, your, your bank data next week, and I’ll refund you a half of your money. Right. And what’s that why I didn’t even complain. I haven’t complained have I?

3 (45m 5s):
And I said, no, you don’t have to complain. Right. It wasn’t fair. So we, we, we, we refund you. It’s a no-brainer and, and, and you see we, Walter, and I love to take your money. We will take your money, but we don’t want it for free. Right. It’s a very, it’s a very, no, but it’s very,

2 (45m 27s):
I remember, I remember years ago and I don’t want to bring up a sore subject, but I remember you had a, you had a show scheduled and the show didn’t end up happening. And a lot of people booked booked flights, and you actually sent an email out to everyone. And I remember this where you offered to refund, people’s airfares. Now I turned you down. Why did I turn you down? Because I have, I have too much respect for what you do. And I realized you lost more money than anybody on the thing. So there was no way I was going to make the pain, you know, pain worse. But I remember you doing that in dress. And that those are the, that’s the kind of business people, you and Walter.

3 (46m 6s):
Oh, we did it. I mean, costs are six digits and dollars. And, and, but, but, but, but again, I mean, that’s just good business sense. I mean, that’s good. It’s good business. It’s good. Exactly. We, we, we paid everyone’s flight. We, we, we lost the money on the test. Even if you had booked a hotel that wasn’t even the ShoreTel, we would refund you half the money you spent. But again, I mean, you lose money with us once and you don’t want it.

2 (46m 38s):
No, you don’t want people to remit. You don’t want people remembering that experience because in the end, in the end, you’re better off taking the financial blown now, then taking a blow to your reputation and turning people off. No, I completely would agree. And that’s, that’s the way you guys roll. And I really appreciate that. Now, now times are obviously unpredictable now, and we’ll kind of along the same lines of what we were talking about. What if someone buys a sponsorship and then isn’t allowed to travel to Spain in the end or even worse? What if there’s a there’s, you know, a, a new wave of COVID-19 are the sponsors going to lose their entire investment?

2 (47m 21s):
I think I know the answer, but I’ll let you answer.

3 (47m 26s):
Yeah, no, I I’ve seen that happened to people at a conference in the past. And I find that quite, quite, quite terrible. No, we’ll, we’ll do it. I mean, first of all, since time’s not unpredictable, as, as you said, we will not charge anyone until 1st of June until a month, really a month before the show, we will not charge anyone. So until then we only take risk-free reservations for sponsorships. So, so no, no risk to you until first off, 1st of June, really? So that’s already good. And 1st of June, the month out, everyone can make more educated decisions.

3 (48m 10s):
What, a month later, everyone not. So I think that’s quite fair.

1 (48m 14s):
Yeah. Yeah. And don’t, and don’t book your don’t book, your, your plane and hotel until, you know, until then.

3 (48m 22s):
Yeah. And then the other thing is obviously then a small time window between 1st of June and the event that, that one month there, our idea is that we will refund you 60% of what you paid us in cash. So let’s say you pay us on hundred. We’ll send you back the 60 and the other 40 are not, are not lost. They just get to credit it to the next conference. So the next time you wonder was also, you, you come, you already got 40 reserved for you. So bottom line, you’re not losing anything, right?

3 (49m 4s):
All your, all your money is still there. We’re not taking any of your money.

1 (49m 10s):
Let’s talk, you know, you mentioned future conferences. Let’s talk about Prague. And I know I’m going a little bit off script here, but I know it’s five months out. And I know there’s a lot of uncertainty at this point, but what’s your best

3 (49m 24s):
Guess on that? I assume things will look really, really good as set since, since a couple of days, I’m, I’m very positive about the future. If a large chunk of the European population will already be vaccinated in June, it it’ll only get better and better and more and more every month after. So by September, I expect us to be able to host the nearly normal conference. Obviously not going to be like our last one in 2019, but it will be fairly, fairly close. I expect us to.

3 (50m 5s):

1 (50m 7s):
I hope so. That’s a great show, man. That’s a great show

3 (50m 10s):
And it’s, we have a huge hotel. So even if, if there might still be social distance in place, which I, I doubt we could still put a lot of people in there. I mean, they’re big capacity. So even if you have to stay up a meter and a half away, and if you have to wear a mask, we can fulfill all of those things easily. It’s a big, big hotel. And so we will be able to host a significant number of live attendees. I’m I’m positive. Okay.

2 (50m 40s):
I’m, I’m planning on it, man. You know, up until recently, it was the only thing on my counter for 2021 outside, outside of being here. The only thing that I, that I said I’m going to do is go to Prague for TES. Other than that, I didn’t care. I really didn’t. Okay. Now, now, if people want to support and sponsor the conference, so who should they come?

3 (51m 4s):
They can contact me. So my email, most people will know it, but it’s a andreas@tsaffiliateconferences.com. And then I’ll get back with them usually 12 hours or less. So again, it’s andreas@tsaffiliateconferences.com. And yeah, we, we get back to you in the 12 hours or less

2 (51m 25s):
Andreas. You get back to me and you keep saying 12 hours. Usually if I contact you, you get back to me in 12 seconds or less. So that’s a, yeah, that’s a, that’s a long time for you now, what else can our listeners do to support Walter and yourself

3 (51m 41s):
As always was the life conference. But also with the virtual people always ask me, what, what can we do? The main things, talk about us, spread to the world, spread the word. That’s really, really the main, main thing people always want to do will be to come up with fancy things. How can we help you speak about us? Not, not nothing else. We, we ask for a post about us on if you had, if you attend our show post about it on, on, on your social media channels. If you like what we do speak about it on your social media panel. Talk to your invite, your business friends, especially this time. Now tickets are free. Tickets are free.

3 (52m 21s):
They’re not going to get any cheaper. So tell people, I mean, especially like, for example, you, you you’re you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re a speaker. I mean, imagine anyone, anyone on the planet can listen to your speech now for free, for free. Why ship? Why shouldn’t you invite your potential clients to check you out for free? So, I mean, yeah, maybe you’re not part of the inner, inner inner circle of what we used to do because we were very European. We were very much dating Donald high-risk, et cetera, but now it’s a new world. I mean, you can be in, in Indonesia kombucha, you can be in wherever and you can be in any industry and you can communicate with anyone.

3 (53m 11s):
And we give you a platform in the middle that pre pre pre sorts you who is there. And if you, if you come in and you see it, I want to have, I don’t know, gaming field yet. And yeah, if you see there, I don’t know, a hundred contexts, you stay on the platform for free, for free business for free. And if you see it, you come in and there’s nobody with that characteristics on the platform you lost one minute and you go and you should also zero a year or so. So why would someone not, not take off, take off this offer? Right?

2 (53m 45s):
Right. No, I agree. I agree. Now, now we’ll all TES affiliate conferences in the future. Have a hybrid conference format. Do you think

3 (53m 54s):
The short answer is yes. The large longer one is unless the financial losses are too over whelming. The good thing is if times go back to normal, we make diff w we have a good, good turnover with a good income with, with the life part. It’s too fine, doing fine. And then water. I just have to agree that we want to earn less. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s just such a disposition. It’s just a Walter. And I saying, we want to, in the end of the year, as a private person, half less in our wallet, so less for our family, less for our kids, less for vacations, it’s it?

3 (54m 41s):
It is that sacrifice that we do for, for the ability for the industry. But again, it is a marketing tool. It allows people to check us out. It gives us worldwide reach and it keeps the brand out there. It all depends how much it hurts. I mean, if we, if we lose a little money, we’ll do it for sure. If we lose a lot of money, we’ll do it. If it becomes completely Gaga, then we will have to have a serious talk because we’re talking about purposely taking a loss. Right. And that obviously any business person that’s a little bit clever would never do that.

2 (55m 25s):
Oh, look, you know, you know what, you know what Andrew asked the way I look at it. I think it’s a loss now for a gain later. I don’t think you would do it. If you don’t think, if you didn’t think it would help you long-term. And I think, like you said, the more people who get acquainted, more people are going to attend the live shows and more people are going to sponsor. And I cannot stress enough to people. Look, I looked at the sponsorship and went, Hmm, really? Okay, should I do this? And then I thought about it more. And I thought, yeah. And I’m going to do this for one simple reason is because the job you guys do and the product you put out needs to be supported.

2 (56m 7s):
And I hope that everyone who sponsors shows or who can sponsor shows does a sponsorship here because they should, okay. And maybe they might look at it and go, okay, it’s a little expensive for virtual sponsorship. I get that. But you know what, it’s worthwhile because sponsoring your shows will help people. And I know that because that’s my experience.

3 (56m 36s):
Yeah. Again, I mean, as I said, if we, if we lose some, okay, but it has also always been our model. We first provide a good product and then we ask, ask money for it. Never the other way around. No, you usually people are very focused on earning money. And so they will say, ah, okay, you pay me this. And that is what you get. And that’s normal in business. It’s very simple. If you want to buy a, buy a car or some shoes or whatever, underwear, doesn’t matter, the guy will say it, put that money on the table and I give you that.

3 (57m 16s):
So we have a very strange way of doing business. We usually say, okay, we give you this. And if it works for you, you will eventually pay us. Well,

2 (57m 28s):
Look how long it took to Amazon to, to make money.

3 (57m 31s):
We’ve always done business the way where we said good things will happen. So if, if, if I do something for you, you don’t have to pay me. It will come back. I mean, if I do something good for you and it makes you money and you’re happy with me, you don’t have to pay me. It will compact. You, you will, you will tell a business friend of yours about us or you, you you’ll make, mention it on a board or on Facebook or wherever, or eventually you’re small and we help you to grow for free. And at some point suddenly you are earning money and you’re like, Oh, that money. Some of it I owe to those people. No, I mean, I will never send you say you owe it to me, but business people will say, why do I have this money?

3 (58m 18s):
Partly it comes from them. And then suddenly people that have grown with us say, Oh yeah. Now I should probably buy a sponsorship. I should make it. Right. And obviously, I mean that we’ll use some bad apples that we’ll just say, Oh, thanks for the free business, a loser. I take it. Ha ha for sure. I mean, you always have a such people, but the far majority of the people out there are good people and they’ll say, Oh wow, you’ve done so much for me. How can I pay you back? And they, it always, what goes around, comes around.

2 (58m 53s):
No, I, I agree with you wholeheartedly, you know, and I’ll give people an example. You know, I recently started a casino site, broker.com and we’re, we’re entering the, the area of, of broker and casinos. And I mentioned this to you and you turned me on to a contact and this guy has been, and I haven’t even told you this. This guy has been of amazing value to me in that space where I knew nobody. And he was your counterpart with, you know, the, the, the casino shows. And it’s that kind of benefit of doing business with you guys that even goes over and beyond the growth that my business has seen from sponsoring your shows and from attending your shows.

2 (59m 40s):
So, no, I, I can’t tell people enough that it’s, it’s well worthwhile to support what you guys do now. What other interesting projects apart from T E S do you have lined up for people listening?

3 (59m 54s):
Yeah. Basically two, one is already existing. It’s not existing. It’s coming back. We, we, we never wanted to do an Island gathering again, but more people keep asking more and more often. So we, we, we decided to bring it back in the original form. So it will be in the, in the Marriott, in, in Curacao. Like it has always when’s it going to be? That is a good question. First, we had a down for November, 2021. So this November, then Covid got really bad.

3 (1h 0m 34s):
And again, as a set, I, my predictions were bad. So we said, okay, we push it to November, 2022. Now suddenly your predictions are looking very, very well. So I will be speaking to the Marriott next week, if we want to push it to back to November, 2021, again, because by then I think life, the, the world will look really good. And I think people will be really ready to have a vacay or a business V vacate on a, on a beautiful Caribbean Island. Yeah, I’m ready.

3 (1h 1m 14s):

2 (1h 1m 14s):
You did it. You did it one year here in Thailand. Actually

3 (1h 1m 18s):
We did, we did one in, we did one. I wish you’d bring it back. We will see. We’ll see. I think we, we, we will bring it back. I mean, w w when we launched it, we had the idea that that was something that you want to do a couple of every couple of years. I mean, such an event is not needed every year. Nobody wants to do it’s all CEOs and company owners, and nobody wants to, they are also families and they don’t want to go away every year. So our idea was to, to do it every couple of years, but then people hit me up and said, Hey, if you don’t do it next year, then the competition will step in.

3 (1h 1m 60s):
You have to do it. And a stupid Mia said, Oh yeah, you have a point. And then we did it every year. And that was where everything went that. So then, because the first one to went out, worked out well, and then it got worse and worse. I think we learned something from it, but now it has been six, seven years that we done one, I would have won the, the time has come, that we can bring it, bring it back again. But after, after that, after that, do we do it every second or third year or every fifth or every 10th year will not, not be a yearly event again, because it’s stupid. I mean, also it’s company owners. It’s the big dogs and they don’t change from year to year.

3 (1h 2m 45s):
I mean, the industry doesn’t change from year to year. It takes two, three, four times, four years for a change to happen that you actually notice. So why meet with the same people every year? It doesn’t make sense. So currently we could say maybe, probably every five years and, and, but then you have different people in five years, the, the, the, the landscape at least has changed. So there’s some value to what we’re doing. And yeah, if in the meantime, the competition wants to step in be my guests, because I know the numbers and the numbers are not as great as you think.

2 (1h 3m 22s):
Well, they won’t do as good of a show. Definitely. Well, Hey, Andrea. So I’d like to thank you again for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon before.

3 (1h 3m 33s):
Yeah. Sounds, sounds good. One, one last thing that I forgot to mention was, yeah, we’re also thinking about maybe, maybe doing something more, more mainstream, also totally separate separate project. So probably less of relevance to your, to your listeners, but I want to throw it out there. Is that because then currently it’s, it has become over the years, a very mixed back, and I’m not sure if everyone is really happy was that so we could pay a P S a little bit more into the high-risk risk, like what the banks would call the high risk market gaming, gambling, dating, whatever the bank would call high risk, and then have a second totally separate new online advertising conference is really just targeted to, to the low-risk.

3 (1h 4m 30s):
It’s a good idea of take, take, take a different, that’s a good idea. So, because if we mix it more and more, I think we, we will alienate our existing clients. The, the, the, the new people are not happy and nobody’s happier. So, so maybe better to do two, two shows, Wells and one show that’s totally, that doesn’t have any, any restructure anymore.

2 (1h 4m 56s):
Sounds good. Well, Andreas, thanks again for being with us. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or trending down

1 (1h 5m 19s):
And how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to three and a half area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time. If the profit is taking a nose, dive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and reviewed traffic are the most valuable tube. Traffic is the least valuable. Is the traffic reliable and sustainable? What is the traffic history?

1 (1h 6m 0s):
In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as to profit and the valuations will, of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website? Is the domain of.com or something else? Dot com is still King. What is it? Alexa rating, how many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it, and how much time would be involved?

1 (1h 6m 41s):
What is the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week? How to buy a website and next week we’ll be talking to legendary porn star Vicki Vette. You do not

0 (1h 6m 55s):
Want to miss that. And that’s it for this week’s adult side broker talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, Andreas Bischoff of the TES Affiliate Conferences. Talk to you again next week on adult side, broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Shakun Sethi of Tickle dot life.

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1 (1m 25s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, internet.com. The ultimate internet domain is now available, and we are proud to list it. The domain gets 6 million unique visitors a month. This domain can be used for any of a number of uses. The opening bid is only $35 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today is Shakun Sethi, the founder and CEO of tickle.life. Shakun thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank you so much, Bruce, for inviting me and letting me put across the message resonates with I’m so excited and really, really looking forward to talking to you today.

1 (2m 10s):
As my now tickled out life was started as a quest to find the right sex toy. They spent two years looking for the right people to talk to. This is what led to the creation of tickle.life. In 2019, the company is based in San Francisco, tickle.life is the world’s first discovery platform or sexual wellbeing meets lifestyle, tickle.life intend to not just normalize conversations around sexual wellbeing. They want to become a safe and responsible platform that furthers industry interests and sensitizes the society about sexual needs and possibilities. tickle.life believes in promoting a sex positive environment that is safe, inclusive, free of judgment, and that respects your privacy.

1 (2m 56s):
Now Shaq Coon is the founder and CEO of tickle.life. She has over a decade of experience and community management, international communications, brand management, and digital media. Inclusivity is paramount for her. And that is evident in her work. She supports fundraising for various social causes and supports various NGOs. Now let’s start out with the basics. What exactly is tickle.life?

2 (3m 23s):
What are you trying to do with the google.life is create an ecosystem where it becomes easier for people to discover, not just things about sexual wellbeing, but also for the industry to discover different resources, different infrastructure, different, you know, partners that they can be looking out for. And hence we call it a discovery platform. We just want it to be, we just want the industry as a whole. We just want the messaging of sexual developing, discoverable all across the world.

1 (3m 55s):
Okay. Is it more, is it more of a B2B or a B to C platform?

2 (4m 2s):
We are more of a B2C platform, but what has happened is because you would know, and all the listeners would know because from the industry, they just realize that it becomes very, very difficult to go into the market because of shadow banning, because you know, there are platforms which are not sex positive. So even when we had to Cru, it became very important for us to go out and create those products and services so that we could grow. And while we were doing this, we just realized that, you know, we just can’t keep them to ourselves. We would have to get them to the industry as well. So technically we are still B to C because we are trying to grow, but we do understand while we are doing it, we are creating services.

2 (4m 45s):
We are creating technology, which will help the industry as a whole. And we’ve started giving it out to the industry as well.

1 (4m 53s):
Okay. If I go to tickle.life, what am I going to find? There

2 (4m 59s):
You go to find over 350 collaborations between industries, between individuals academicians, between influencers, what talking about sexual wellbeing all across, and that’s what is shown to the end-user. Second thing. What you’re going to see is you’re going to find the biggest listing service of sex, positive podcasts in the world. Third, what you’re going to find is you’re going to find the services that we were talking about, which via using and which we want to give to the industry. Like we became the first podcast hosting service, which was completely sex positive that has not happened before, because if it was really look at any of the services that are available, they will always have a cave.

2 (5m 47s):
It in their terms and conditions that if suppose something goes explicit or suppose something, which, which the team things, or the legal team, things that is is, is not, is this is, you know, related to sex. They would not allow it, or they might ban it. That’s going to be coming to, you know, it doesn’t matter if you use a dome like adult, it doesn’t matter if you use the term like sex as long you’re talking about something, which is related to your wellbeing for the user’s wellbeing. We are. Absolutely. Okay. So I’m alteration works in a completely different manner. We are never going to shut. And you just, because you’re talking about sex, because we created the service for ourselves and we have a sex positive podcast.

2 (6m 29s):

3 (6m 30s):
Right. Yeah. It’s, it’s kinda like so many vendors that we have to deal with in the industry, whether it be banks, processors, social media platforms in general, it seems like more and more and more they’re they’re banning adult come.

2 (6m 51s):
Absolutely. And you know, that was the thing because when we started, so me and my co founder, we come from the startup world and we never understood like, what exactly we were trying to resolve or solve. We just knew that this is what we wanted to do. We wanted to make sexual wellbeing discoverable to see, we actually put the, there are two main problems in the industry right now industry, or in fact like industry would be a wrong term. I would say in the world, number one is it’s difficult to discover, like click you actually just, just informed people about who I am. And it took two years to find the right people. Just imagine if I desperately needed somebody.

2 (7m 32s):
It just is a deterrent to my growth as a person. Yeah. So what, number one is discoverability. And you know, the reason why the discoverability is an issue because of shadow banning, because other platforms, and we don’t even say that those platforms are doing something wrong. That’s their market, that’s their business. So we are not there to point fingers at them, right. Because that’s, at least, at least we are not taking God. Like you just believe. Yeah. We just think that this is an opportunity to work and they would never ever understand what exactly we need that only we can understand now as an industry.

3 (8m 10s):
Okay. Now you’re from, you’re from India. How sex positive and open are they there about all this?

2 (8m 18s):
Yes, it is. Somebody was asking me this question and I see a very, very interesting change happening. So India is right now in the stage of awareness. And we’re just talking about sexual wellbeing. I’m not talking about a adult toys being sold, the consumption of content. I’m just talking about as the, as, as the, you know, like how we have evolved, it’s still at the first stage of awareness and that’s when the exploratory stage comes. So I would just say that, you know, we had at the first stage, but, but people are getting positive. It’s divided into two, some cities, some population is really evolved that really want to talk about things like we do have different rooms set up on different platforms on our platform.

2 (9m 7s):
And we do see that people from India come, they ask questions and they have genuine relevant questions they have relevant needs. Yes. So I’ll just say that, you know, we are still at the awareness level because a lot of them on an average are related to what is this, rather than opt to use this. So, so that’s a positive input. It’s just like, it will take a lot of time. But if you really think about it, even if there’s a very small percentage of people who are ready to explore, the population is so high, that it would be equivalent to, you know, maybe like population of another country altogether. Yeah.

3 (9m 48s):
Yeah. The, the old, the old world is still coming to grips with things happening in the news.

2 (9m 55s):
Yeah. And I just think that, you know, people, especially during COVID, it just gave a very big opportunity for people to explore and to ask themselves what is happening, what do I want, you know, rather than what somebody else would want, or what would people think, because you’re just, you’re stuck inside your house. Then you start thinking just about yourself. So the time the, the biases that have been created with the adult industry or sexual wellbeing industry has a lot to do with the taboo and the devil comes from the society. So when you’re already doing, you know, like not a part of society anymore, thanks to Kobe that what are you going to do?

2 (10m 36s):
You’re are going to start exploring yourself. Yeah.

3 (10m 38s):
Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s pretty male dominated there.

2 (10m 42s):
And what in India mainly dominated as the industry?

3 (10m 46s):
No, I’m just, I’m just talking about, I’m talking about the society

2 (10m 50s):
Or, or

3 (10m 51s):
Is that, or, or is that not the case anymore?

2 (10m 54s):
I would just, I would just say that, you know, it’s just not India because, because when, when you just started, like, at least when I started being a woman and I just thought that, you know what, Oh, you know, there are these problems which happen in India. It’s a male dominated country. You know, people would not talk about sex. People would be very judgmental if I go out and tell them that, you know, this is what you’re getting into, when it’s completely completely about sex and sex, it will be, people are gonna judge me. But interestingly enough, that did not happen. Yeah, absolutely. It’s, it’s really, really good. Like I spent two years just to think that, am I ready for this?

2 (11m 36s):
I think I should not have used those two things just to think I should have just done it. Yeah. And the same kind of experiences I’m also experiencing across the world. Right. So it’s not very different. The only difference is again, the inquisitive newness or the level of understanding, or the level of doing it’s, it’s a bit less because there are greedy communities, there are kinky people there everything’s happening, but it’s all hypergraph

3 (12m 7s):
Everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Of course. Yeah.

2 (12m 10s):
It’s more on the ground help. That’s how I,

3 (12m 13s):
And, and through it, a lot of Asia, maybe not as much here in Thailand, but to a degree, it is, there’s still a lot of traditionalism. And now obviously you’re in your infancy with the platform. What are your plans for the, for the

2 (12m 31s):
Based simplifying something, which is, which is very obvious. And which has to be done is to bring anybody and everybody who is in the sexual wellbeing industry together. Because as we do not come together, we would not be able to make the impact that it’s needed globally. So it’s about, let’s create a community, let’s provide information, which the end user or your customer or people who are really looking out for it and even not looking out for it get, so once that is done, there are so many things that can be done. But like, if you just think about from the revenue point of view, we are maturing into, like I said, that we have started providing a lot of services, which we were using or which we are using or which we will be developing for the industry.

2 (13m 17s):
Yeah. So it just makes it easy that, Hey, how do you work on it? Or what is the difference? Like a base model example, when we had to hire somebody internally for search engine optimization, it took us so long to find the right people, because they did not understand. They would categorize us as somebody who is running upon site because the keywords are similar because they don’t know. It’s just a very, very niche understanding. And then we started creating that capability internally. And that’s how we also are in a position to say that, Hey, do you need SEO? Which is for your industry, come let’s, let’s have a chat.

2 (13m 59s):
Let’s see, how do we make it happen? Same thing goes with the podcast hosting service. Same thing goes with in future newsletters, like our new setup, whenever we send. And most of the other people who would send, they would go in span as does not. Unless you feel like you flagged it, that it has to go in spam. It would not. And our open rate is 20%, which is even further consumer. Good. Yeah.

3 (14m 25s):
I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got a guy that does it for me and I pay him well. And yeah, I get those kinds of open rates too, but it’s not easy. And you better be.

2 (14m 37s):
Absolutely. And now that we have created that system and it’s all automatic and on top of that, we actually are trying to make the industry self sufficient, that he will take a few classes. We’ll take a few, you know, like coaching for you. How do you make that email that does not go to the spam? Yeah. So it’s more of a handholding because that’s how the community works and you have to help each other. So it’s just not about, you know, this like, Hey, you know what? You pay us money and we will do it. Let’s do it together. So that if tomorrow you want to start doing it on your own, you can do it.

3 (15m 11s):
I’ll be in that. I’ll be in that class, sign me up.

2 (15m 17s):
You’re launching it very soon. I’ll show you as a team to send you an email, but, but that’s what we want to do. Like I said, that, you know, everybody has to work together and everybody can not work together. If you’re just thinking of yourself as a tech company, we don’t want to think of ourselves as a tech company. You want the change to happen. We want another front to be created, which is a sexual wellbeing trend. So that tomorrow, whenever I have kids and if they go, they do not have to be ashamed or they do not have to know or say that. I don’t know.

3 (15m 50s):
Fantastic. And now how are you finding the intersection between content and infrastructure

2 (15m 57s):
Phase in blue and basally done? I’m just being more than steel. It’s not, but still, so what we do is we start, we have, our content is more like an aggregator platform, right? So people who are writing content onto their platforms or have, have a lot of content, which is just lying around or, you know, or it’s completely completely hidden on, on the Google ranking. We ask them why don’t we start showcasing it on to our platform. So we actually ended up creating micro sites for everyone. Nice. So when microsites are created, that’s one part second phase, it is, we would also ask a lot of those people because we’re also providing traffic to give, you know, new content pieces, because we also have to work on the SEO part.

2 (16m 47s):
You need new content, you need old content. You need people to actually, you know, there are a lot of questions that keep on coming. So we need content created from that angle. So a lot of people also provide the new content pieces, especially who do not have blocks. And the third is what tickled.life provides. So we also provide content onto the farm as, as a, as an entity, we do not provide like, Hey, you don’t want it’s us so we can put anywhere. We also have a microsite for us. So it becomes like multiple microsites and those microsites can be used any way. You can, you can use it to publicize yourself. You can use it just to showcase your work experience.

2 (17m 28s):
You can use it to showcase what kind of writings you have or what, what process you have from the industrial point of view. Same thing we do with podcasts. So anybody who hosts a podcast or do also is also gets a microsite so that Microsoft will have all the links of all the different platforms that you are on. Usually we share on four, but with a lot of people, they just ended up saying that, Hey, you know what? I get traffic from an XYZ platform. Can I showcase that also? Which is absolutely fine. And we can do it. So that’s that. And the third and the last one is, but when listing a lot of podcasts and a lot of video content platforms, so they also get the micro-sites.

2 (18m 11s):
So suppose if tomorrow you list your podcast on decal.live, which I would love. If you work, you have over like 300 plus podcasts. Yeah. So you get, you know, like you actually get a microsite and that micro-sites looks pretty, you know, it has explanation because you just keep on asking people, Hey, are you on Spotify? Are you on iTunes? Suppose if I was not on iTunes and you share Spotify link, I would never go. Right? But here, all the links are together. You did not have to go and work on creating your website care of it. It just becomes like a big, big marketplace that your details, people can connect with you on your social networks, on your email, on tickle.life.

2 (19m 0s):
And that’s how it actually ends up, you know, maturing into that’s the content. Have

3 (19m 5s):
You ever been told? You’re a very good salesperson.

2 (19m 9s):

3 (19m 10s):
Okay. Well, I’m telling you, and I’m a good sales person myself. Now your platform says you have over 350 collaborators. Please elaborate on these who these people are. And maybe you can highlight some for us.

2 (19m 25s):
So three 50, what we did was we actually sat with people with advisors who are from the industry to identify what are the different categories, which people look out for. So it could be like, you know, age wise, it could be interest wise. And once we did that, we started identifying people who are writing or who are talking on those fields. So, so like we have Dr. Lee Phillips, who’s writing about disability. Hm. You know, sex and disability. If suppose somebody comes and they look out for it, they know that, you know, they can, they’ll just go and search because it’s like a search engine. You go search, you might find writings by leaflet.

2 (20m 7s):
And once you do that, you’d start connecting with that person. We do have few, we actually have a bond site.com, which is a woman Cedric.

3 (20m 18s):
Oh, yes. I know her and her husband. Yes. Yeah. Collins. Colin’s been on my show. I just, I’m waiting for Angie to reply to my emails. Maybe she’ll hear this.

2 (20m 32s):
I think the grade and what has happened is a lot of people in, at least in India have started understanding. And you know, they, they have been times when I’ve been on some rooms, like live sessions, and they’ve said like, Hey, be VSP, soul dotcom, you and I’m woman. Do you think this platform is for me? Should I go, should I check it out? So that actually directly indirectly helped them.

3 (20m 55s):
Oh sure. Oh, sure. They’ve won what? They’ve won many awards. That, that site. Yes.

2 (21m 1s):
Yeah. The, the, the, the, the music, I don’t have words.

3 (21m 5s):
Yeah. It’s fabulous. It’s a fabulous.

2 (21m 9s):
Absolutely. Then we have your toy because like production houses, we actually have few other content platforms as well. Who are our partners? You know? So it’s just all across, all across the, the fields. So sometimes, you know, I actually like, you know, how do you play roulette? I just go onto the platform. And I just type a random dome that have gone across, because I’m also learning about sexuality. And interestingly enough, you end up finding at least one multimedia piece that could be a podcast episode. That could be obedient. That could be a content piece. That could be an expert. So you end up finding something at least happening there.

2 (21m 51s):
And that’s, what’s fabulous about it.

3 (21m 53s):
Cool. Cool. Now tell me some more about you. We D I, I did a pretty lengthy bio. You’ve done a lot in your life. Tell me some more about you.

2 (22m 4s):
I’m more of a crazy person. If I think that, you know, there’s something interesting happening. And if there are a lot of questions that needs to be explored, because every question and every problem has a solution, and that’s how I think at least I’m so crazily, happily involved with the colored lines, because there are so many, but every problem has a solution. And that’s like the fun part here. I’m from India. I love traveling. I travel all across the world. I don’t even need anybody and just school and travel most of the time, pre COVID and hopefully post COVID.

2 (22m 45s):
You might find me sitting in a cafe all by myself and looking at people. And that was actually like the fullest idea or the full question for sex or for sexual wellbeing started in a cafe when I was just looking at people and watching something, watch porn on the phone. And I was just like, Oh my God. You know, he’s so happy.

3 (23m 12s):
I hope, I hope, I hope both his hands were showing, but anyway,

2 (23m 17s):
Yeah, it was a Starbucks.

3 (23m 19s):
Ah, well, you never know. I’ve heard it done on an airplane, so you just never know.

2 (23m 25s):
Yeah. Okay. You’ve completely spoiled this memory for me now.

3 (23m 30s):
I’m sorry. I’m a guy. I’m a guy. I can ruin anything.

2 (23m 35s):
I was just focusing on the phase and the thing, and they’re all so happy, but, but yeah, so, you know, that’s, that’s what exactly who I am. Yeah. I come from like a very interesting region in India, which we’ve seen a lot of ups and downs, political upheavals, and that’s exciting as well in a way, but that actually makes you more evolved and understand integrities and understand the life is really, really important. Yes. I was in Netherlands for awhile. That’s where I did my post-graduate graduation and a lot again, what.life is doing.

2 (24m 16s):
And my interest in sexuality comes from there. That was the sex toy shop for you and having fun living life finding solution. I’m pretty, pretty sure we will be able to create the big ecosystem as the full front, which this world needs, which all of us need.

3 (24m 37s):
Absolutely. So talk about the sexual wellbeing industry. The difference between that in North America and in India, we talked a little bit about awareness, but how’s the sexual wellbeing industry different.

2 (24m 55s):
Okay. So in India, if I stay, if I start, the rules are pretty ambiguous, we do have some adult stores online. We do not have offline. We do have people who are working for sexual wellbeing. We do have few counselors. We do have few therapists, but it’s still at a Bay nascent stage. People are buying toys. People are excited about toys, but still, you know, like they are skeptical about them. Like even for somebody like me, it took me a lot of time to accept if I’m staying with my parents, because a lot of people still stay with the parents. I would not want a sex toy coming for me. Yeah. Yeah. So

3 (25m 35s):
I don’t think, I don’t think many women would.

2 (25m 38s):
I, I th I think, I think it will also be for men now because like, you know, a lot of men also stay with their parents. They don’t want somebody else opening, you know, it’s just awkward. Yeah. So that’s happening in India. People are still be quiet about it. People still want to talk about it, but they do not know how to talk about it. So the industry here is baby. Nice. Sure. They’re just like three or four major players. Yeah. But that’s actually an opportunity as well, because they, they get to like, you know, get the maximum share and whatever they say, people listen. So if I come down to North America, it’s already a matured market.

2 (26m 19s):
Yes. But here, the problem is that there are so many things, so many people are doing, there’s still adore to focus. And that actually happens because of the problems. Yes, yes. Yeah. Even for us, we would just like, you know, we would just go from one platform to another, to the third platform, to the fourth platform, just thinking, Oh my God, we need people that can think is it w what at least we see, or we’ve identified is that what really needs to be done is just to focus on your identity rather than, you know, taking care of things like tech, taking care of things like publicity, because if your identity is created, then things work out, which is missing right now because there’s so much to do.

2 (27m 6s):
And, and it it’s, it’s, it’s crazy. Like, you know, even like banking is so difficult. Something which, which I don’t know, a lot of people will agree is I still think we have to work together, which is happening, but it’s also not happening. Because if, if we have problems with Instagram is still focusing most of our energy on Instagram a lot. Yeah. And what if like tomorrow just goes off like fuels habit, Instagram account, don’t get, don’t get me wrong. But the thing is, we know that we can not spend more than 20 minutes per day on this, because what will happen? Like if tomorrow they just take it off.

3 (27m 45s):
Yeah. And little by little that’s that’s happening in adult, what services are you providing to the sexual wellbeing industry?

2 (27m 58s):
Like I said, one is the podcast hosting service, the world’s first sex positive podcast hosting. So is that will be better because why, I mean, why not other people? And it looks super cheap. We’ve just made it a point that it is be just to take money for the solvers and for the tech, rather than making money out of it. Because this was not like a revenue model for us. It’s more to do with what can we do? How can we bring more people together and more people safe together. The second one is we’ve started with the SEO service. The third one that we’ve started, like I said, like about the newsletter, but it’s just not about disseminating newsletters. It’s also about how do you actually draft newsletter?

2 (28m 40s):
How do you actually send them? How many times you are supposed to send them in a month, in what way you’re supposed to send them. So it’s more of an amalgamation of coaching plus the deck together. And we’ve also started working with, which has just launched. And it’s just with like, you know, two or three people. And it’s also going to be like a course is about how do you use different marketing platforms, which actually has your target audience rather than Instagram or Facebook. They do not, but there are platforms which actually is right for you, which is not going to ban you if you know how to work on it.

2 (29m 22s):
And that’s how we actually grew. And because we did not spend even a single penny on advertisements ever. And so we want to let you know, take this up also, but there’s also something very interesting that’s going to happen based soon. So we have a course, a very small course about back to basics, which was created for the end users, was that when you’re talking about basics, build to do understand that in the adult industry, people who are actually selling the toys outside and the products outside, they might know about the product, they might know about how to use it. But sometimes they do not know, or they do not have enough information about a person’s interest and anatomy.

2 (30m 10s):
Right. And when you do not know that your sales would always be less than it could have become, it’s true because people want to go to a counselor and then take a suggestion rather than just going to Salesforce and launching the school’s Vegas soon, just for the production industry that, Hey, this is a course, that’s done bio credential. You’re going to get certification. It’s been done and created by somebody who’s in the industry who is working in those sexual wellbeing industry as well has sold toys also is qualified enough, has all the right certifications. So that’s something that’s going to happen baby soon. So we are just on the verge of closing the gone dent.

2 (30m 52s):
And it’s going to be like a long course, because we just want, whoever becomes, whoever is ready to actually go and sell, should be made to feel as if that person knows the person and is closer to being a counselor rather than just shoving off sex toy in somebody’s face.

3 (31m 12s):
Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. What are the biggest concerns you have as a sex tech founder?

2 (31m 21s):
The biggest concerns. One is investments. People are investing. No doubt about that, but still there are there, aren’t a lot of people who are agendas, you know, the right people. Yeah. Second is obviously the tech part because we are creating things, but somewhere, some, you know, down the line, things are closed. How far can we take it thought? And I think which actually nullifies the first two is why is the industry overall? And, and I don’t mean just like sexual well-being industry or just the adult industry, or just the admissions, why everybody’s not together, why everybody is working in silos, because if you’re working in silos, things that aren’t going to happen, we need to work together.

2 (32m 5s):
And it is still missing, which I think is the major reason why a lot of such negative laws, Abbas bars, or such negative things happen, or if you’re not able to actually scale the level of which we could have scaled. So I just think we have to have to have to work together. We have to figure out synergies and there are electric thousands of synergies. It’s not even a puzzle.

3 (32m 29s):
It sounds like this is going to kind of morph into as much of a B2B platform as a B to C and in my hearing you’re right. No,

2 (32m 40s):
It still is going to be a B2C platform because if you are not a B2C platform, we would not be in a position to resolve and find solutions could be, to be true. So it can’t, it can’t be just a B2B platform because then we just become,

3 (32m 56s):
I didn’t say plus, I mean, I’m sorry. Sorry. I didn’t say instead. I, I said, it sounds like, it sounds like you’re also going to offer a lot of B2B service.

2 (33m 7s):
Yeah, absolutely. So, so it might work like, you know, two different. It is actually right now, two different verticals in the team. So it’s the tech team, which is creating for us as, as a tickle dot light. So tickle.life is also like a client, you know, content or the B2C is also a client. So how do you make tickle.life grow while you’re making us grow? How do you make all those people who are a part of us grow? So whatever is needed for that is what tickle guard life will be creating. So if it is tech services great, if it is courses great, if it is EDU deck great. If it is sex education, great, we will do it so that the industry groups together.

3 (33m 51s):
Hmm. Okay. Yeah. And you know, one thing, one thing you’re going to find the longer you are in this industry, there actually is people are, I wouldn’t say that. I think competitors do work together here and they’re, they’re happy to work together. There are exceptions. Okay. There’s always going to be, exceptions are always going to be that guy, you know, but the people in our industry do tend to work together. Now we’re trying to get them to work more together and to solve a lot of the issues we have with the mainstream platforms and things like that.

3 (34m 32s):
That sounds fantastic. And I, you know, I certainly welcome and I’m sure the industry will welcome any help you can give in that regard.

2 (34m 40s):
Absolutely. I’m just an email away. We can get on a call. We can talk I’m, I’m learning. And we, the entire team, of course. And we’re just like, you know, like when you talk and then you just start understanding, Hmm, there’s something interesting. Let’s see, you can do it. We have a problem. We actually sometimes end up sending emails to other people that, how did it resolve this issue? It’s just not one site.

3 (35m 6s):
Well, people will help. People will help people. People certainly do help because we’re really all in this together. Are you is tickled out life. Are you planning on attending events in the industry?

2 (35m 18s):
Oh, we did few last year. Or do you know you did then like women or sex date? We did it again. Sex tech.edu. We did it. And there was another sex tech.com. We did it then. So this year we are open. We would love to

3 (35m 35s):
Go to go to some B2B shows and

1 (35m 38s):
I can advise you on, on some good ones to go to. Yeah, you need, you need, you need to get out there and meet people should Coon in our, in our industry and in the B2B shows because that’s, I think that’s going to be a, the secret sauce for you. So, so let’s say five years from now, where do you see <inaudible> life, you know, at what do you see it becoming that it, that it might not be now.

2 (36m 9s):
We want to, we want to reach 10 million users month, month. Wow. It’s, it’s just simple, humble. That’s

1 (36m 17s):
Nice. But I mean, what do you see being different about the platform five years from now?

2 (36m 22s):
See, that’s something that, you know, that we can predict. So because of this industry, but we do, would that be it on the right pants? Now we have experimented a lot in the past one, one and a half feel about what works, what does not work. So in a way to, to finally say that, you know, in five years, this is what we are going to be, might be something which is not there. But if I still have to put what we are envisioning, we are envisioning that whenever somebody is looking out for anything to do with sexuality, that means looking off the resources, looking out for people, looking at the industry, looking at the content, looking out for products. So maturing into a big marketplace while remaining a discovery platform is what we envision to happen in five years.

1 (37m 7s):
Okay. Okay. Fantastic. Shukui I have no doubt. And I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. Thank you. Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well has your content been protected from piracy and what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy take down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates?

1 (37m 49s):
The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be. What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site. Do you use billing or affiliate software like gnats or MPA three? What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joints and rebuilds do you have per day? Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets?

1 (38m 34s):
Or have you already advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend to produce or buy the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your website? How is it unique? Make sure to include a list of all of the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a nondisclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers, like, Oh, I don’t know. Maybe adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours.

1 (39m 21s):
And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They will also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price and any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course, we’ll talk about this more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Andreas Bischoff of the TES Affiliate Summit.

0 (39m 48s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Shakun Sethi. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.
Our property of the week that’s for sale that adult site broker, we are proud to list for sale and network of two mainstream flirt chat sites. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and New Zealand, both are mainstream flirt, chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis.

1 (1m 17s):
They have a loyal customer base of 27,000 plus real members with many customers still active from 2017. Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with very low overhead and a proven ROI of 900%. Plus on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing. These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep of the sites requires very little time and most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 plus strong member database.

1 (1m 59s):
Many great markets are yet on tap for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA. Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites for only 484,000 euros. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adults. Broker talk is Natalie PanIN of mojo host, Natalie, thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk, thank you for inviting me. It’s a pleasure now. And mojo hosts we’re Natalie works has 58 awards for outstanding hosting services and business practices.

1 (2m 40s):
It’s the leading choice for hosting in the adult industry established in 1999, mojo hosts growth and attention to powering the success of its clients has positioned it as a choice for mainstream hosting needs as well. They offer dedicated servers, virtual private servers, the mojo hosts, CDN global content delivering network. That’s a mouthful, a mojo host cloud computing services, mojo shield, website security, and other web technology solutions. And Natalie has been part of the adult industry for eight years now. And she grew from user technical support to decision-making sales and marketing positions.

1 (3m 22s):
She’s now the business development sales and marketing marketing, shockingly BDSM get that business development sales and marketing manager at mojo host. Her job is to take on everything required to develop the business. So do these are quite varied from sales and marketing to HR and team building to washing the dishes she handles, what needs to be done. I threw that one in and is not afraid of the responsibility that comes with showing initiative. And Natalie’s has a master’s degree in journalism and you did one better than me. Cause I only got a bachelor’s in broadcast journalism and worked in many fields before entering the business of digital adult entertainment.

1 (4m 7s):
She’s been a teacher, she sold diamonds wholesale. She’s been a barista. I didn’t know she could make a good cup of coffee. I need to ask her next time and a legal clerk. She enjoys reading scifi and fantasy books. And if she goes to the movies, you can pretty much bet it’s something about superheroes. She wears many hats. The two most wide brimmed of those are mojo hosts, BDSM, and her she’s a mom Natalie’s Natalie’s daughter is going on five years of age. So that had, is getting more and more fun every day. So, Hey, talk about being a mom. You got a five, you got a, he got a five-year old.

1 (4m 50s):
How how’s, how does that mix with doing business?

2 (4m 56s):
Well, you know, it sometimes does feel like you’re a jigsaw octopus. That’s sort of my term for having to multitask during work. But that being said, I mean, motherhood is great and I’ve managed to incorporate, you know, B being a working individual who puts in at least eight or 10 hours a day to also spending time with my daughter. And that’s something that I particularly enjoy, especially now that you see her growing into an individual and somebody with her own opinions and somebody who, you know, thinks and functions as a grownup as a small little version of a grownup.

2 (5m 38s):
So, so it’s certainly an interesting experience for sure. It was difficult, especially in the very beginning with, you know, no sleep. And I think I took a total of four months for maternity and that was that, and then went right back to work. So it, it was a little difficult to juggle, but overall I just I’m enjoying the, the, you know, the life as you say it and definitely enjoying the job as well. So it’s a good, it’s a good place to be where you’re happy to wake up in the morning. You’re happy to come to work. You’re happy to get off work and spend time with your daughter. So the whole balance of life and work is certainly working out if not particularly easily, obviously, but at least to the best.

3 (6m 23s):
Yeah. Now, now you live in the Ukraine that’s you guys have certainly had your share of issues. How has life been there lately?

2 (6m 34s):
I am kind of far away from any issues. So it’s, it’s not really touched me directly, obviously there’s, you know, worries about things that are going on in the East, but it’s kind of dying down lately. And I mean, Odessa where I’m at right now is really the quietest place. It’s at the beach, it’s a tourist destination. So the location isn’t that big of a deal for me. And I quite like it here. I mean the beach in the summer is definitely gray. We do have four seasons, which is amazing. People think that since I’m from Ukraine, it must be really cold. And I guess everything is comparative. There’s warmer places and there’s definitely colder places, but I do enjoy the fact that there’s four seasons.

2 (7m 19s):
We actually had some snow this summer for a change because last summer we had no snow and it was well to the great upsetness of my child who really wanted to go sledding and Katie and all of those things. So I’m happy with that overall. I mean, it’s been pretty quiet. Odessa has always been a very, it’s a port city and it’s always been like a trader city. And the one thing about traders is they’re trying to stay as far away from trouble as they can, because it’s not good for trade, not good for business. So, so it S has kind of been away for most of most of the issues that has happened in the country over the past 10 years in a good place overall and, and countries doing better.

2 (8m 8s):
I think, you know, I’m not much for politics you’ll, you won’t see one comment for me in a political thread anywhere, but I just think that, you know, it’s doing better than it was five years ago, for sure. So that much,

3 (8m 25s):
That is good now being where you are. And I would imagine a reasonable percentage of your business is in the U S how do you balance that

2 (8m 38s):
By working all sorts of hours is going to be my response. But I mean, we do have a lot of customers in Europe and we also have customers in Asia, which I can pick up on, you know, my morning. So sometimes I do have to show up for PST phone calls that, you know, maybe my 2:00 AM or 4:00 AM or whatever it is, but it’s not really that common. I mean, most of the time I can easily schedule things into my more, my evening. That’s still catches the PST morning as the office people call me employee from the future because by the time they’ve showed up to the office, I’ve likely been working for six or seven hours.

2 (9m 18s):
So that’s nice. I usually have a, a lead on them for anything that’s going on. And, you know, we’ve grown our presence here. I mean, being able to join Mojer host, and then eventually one of the first things that I noticed was that technical talent was always a restricting factor in anything that we did. And so I actually helped the company. I jokingly say that I brought the, the Ukrainian mafia, but I, I actually helped the company hire a lot of technical staff here. Very, very smart technical staff that are all senior level systems, administrators, and the team has the tech team had tripled over the past few years.

2 (10m 2s):
So I was lucky enough. Well, first of all, I was lucky enough to stumble upon a large hosting company that was closing its office here in Ukraine. So I picked up all of the best team members from them. And then, you know, and then obviously others, I’ve done a lot of screening for talented systems administrators in the country and was able to help us grow that way. Now we’re certainly geared towards success with how much the tech team has grown and are able to bring out a lot more customers and do a lot of, a lot more migrations and really cut our response times and, and how quickly we deal with any requests.

2 (10m 43s):
So, you know, definitely in a good place. And, you know, we’re always open to hiring technical staff really anywhere, especially with COVID now that now that the office work, isn’t really a thing anyway, even for people in the U S or we do have an office in Ukraine, but we don’t require anybody to show up there. It’s more of a backup in case, you know, the lights go out or something, or, or your mother-in-law shows you can’t work at home anymore. My mother-in-laws are touchy topics, but other than that, I mean, we’ve grown tremendously and I’m very, very happy to see this growth.

3 (11m 28s):
Yes. Yeah. There’s a, there’s a ton of tech talent in Eastern Europe. There’s no two ways about it. And a lot of it is in the Ukraine now. Now, how did you end up in the adult business? Or I should say, how did a nice girl, like you get in a place like this?

2 (11m 49s):
Oh, you know what, first off I want to say that I do not think there’s anything particularly about adults. I mean, we can, all, we can all be hypocrites and say, Oh, we joke about it. There’s ethical adult businesses, frankly, a lot of ethical adult businesses. And I think it’s better to have that than, than, you know, a shady way of doing it. And one way or another porn is going to be part of our lives. I mean, there’s no other way to say it, besides that. I mean, the story’s kind of out there, I’ve already done some written interviews on it, the sort of nuts and bolts on it were that I was 23 and had started a job selling diamonds, a wholesale, which was interesting and great and a little terrifying.

2 (12m 34s):
Cause you know, I could have $50,000 in my purse at any given time as I was, you know, dealing with jewelers, wholesale diamond sales are all dealing with jewelers. I never really sold directly to customers, but it, it was going well, but it was boring. You would think, right? The diamonds are a girl’s best friends, but beyond the simplest city of learning the colors and shapes and being able to tell a better diamond for a worst one, it really wasn’t all that interesting. And once you’ve kind of grown into knowing the intricacies of judging the stones, there’s not very much, you know, you park it on price, but that’s fairly easy.

2 (13m 19s):
So it became really, really daunting that I wasn’t really learning anything. And every day it was really the same. So I started looking for something that would be more, a little more challenging. And I found a job posting that said that they’re looking for a tech support person and, you know, having a very good English. That was one of the, really one of the biggest requirements there I decided to apply. And it actually took a good month for them to get back to me, which doing HR now, I think is ridiculous. But after a month they invited me for an interview were very happy with me, hired me.

2 (14m 3s):
And then as I was leaving, they said, are you religious? I’m like, no, not really. We’re not particularly. And they said, well, how do you feel about, you know, this PR this working with this industry? You know, I had no idea that that I’ve showed up to an interview for that, but I said, okay, whatever, I quite liked everything else. I mean, it was a great office, really nice team. So, so I started working there and then my very first job was actually user support, not just on a adult site, on a hardcore full cocky network.

2 (14m 45s):
Yeah. So that was a lot of fun. I mean, most of the requests are obviously either billing or something, not working, but it, it was, it was certainly a step from diabetes. Let’s say cocky is definitely a reach from diamonds, for sure. And then from there I got drafted into sales, kicking and screaming actually, because I liked the tech side so much and I wanted to learn more in it that I did not want to transfer into sales. And despite offering me more money and trying to push me to towards of, you know, sales and marketing position, I still did not want to do with.

2 (15m 26s):
And I think there was three or four frantic conversations. When I said, I don’t want to go into sales. I just want to do this tech stuff. I really like it. I want to learn those API. I want to learn a little bit of coding, but you have such great people, people skills I was told. All right. So eventually I started, but I realized that being in sales does not mean you have to drop everything and only work on sales. First of all, and this isn’t really common, but I think the sales person needs to know their product in depth and in depth by in-depth. I don’t necessarily mean being able to write the code for it, but I mean that they need to know what it is that they’re selling and how it works.

2 (16m 11s):
So maybe not, not, not the particular intricacies of actual coding, but at least the basics need to be known some of the technical questions. The sales person needs to know how to answer at least by, you know, kind of learning by osmosis. I mean, you worked with the tech team to answer customer’s questions and eventually you’ll figure out the answers to them and, and why those answers are so, and so I’ve always focused on understanding and being more in depth with both, you know, right now it would be server hardware and, and the server load and what the website’s required in terms of infrastructure and how the CDN works and how TDN by the way, is that mouthful of content delivery network that you mentioned earlier and how, how web application firewalls work and how to protect yourself from like an attack, for example, and how all of those tools work.

2 (17m 8s):
So there’s, there’s definitely a lot of learning to do for somebody who has not been exposed in hosting at all. And I feel like in three years, I’ve certainly grown here and I don’t really see a ceiling of growing since there’s just so much to learn so much infrastructure there’s so much to learn. So I, I definitely don’t feel like I’ll reach a ceiling anytime soon here, in terms of, in terms of growth and, and new knowledge, why did you move on from the first job? You know, I actually, are you talking about ceilings? I realized that I haven’t went to somebody with a question for awhile and I haven’t really learned anything new for a while.

2 (17m 53s):
So I’ve kind of known how to deal with pretty much any situation and people were coming to me for guidance or maybe the support staff or the sales staff. And I haven’t really been required to learn anything new for a while. So I decided that it was time to move on. I mean, I spent five years there. I have the greatest experiences and the greatest memories of that job. It was just time to go. And I felt like the product had launched or the newer product. I don’t know if I haven’t mentioned yet, but I was with Centro. And then starting with adult century, moving into model Centro and eventually found Centro, the product of launch, they were successful stands great.

2 (18m 35s):
By the way, I mean, I like him very much. His family’s great. So it, it was great working for him, but it was time to go. I felt like I wasn’t bringing enough value anymore, or rather I was just bringing the same old value and not growing. So it was time to go, okay.

3 (18m 56s):
Now you’ve worked in very dynamic fields before mojo dealing with models and content owners, as well as site operators. I think you may have answered the question. I, if I’m, if I’m reading into things, cause I’m starting to follow your mind, why did you choose hosting something that some people would consider kind of geeky and boring?

2 (19m 19s):
Well, for somebody who likes Saifai geeky is sort of a compliment. That’s true. My bad. I did partly answer your question. Of course, it’s for a new thing, something new to do. The other reason is actually not so evident, but Stan being Stan and, and obviously he’s a great man with a lot of businesses. I really did not want to do anything to upset him because I respect him. And I think he’s a great guy. So my, one of my requirements for looking for a new job was to get a job somewhere where there is no competition to the things that he does.

2 (20m 3s):
So frankly, being such a great businessman, that wasn’t very many things available anymore.

3 (20m 10s):
You make a point since then even more so.

2 (20m 14s):
Yes. So Stan definitely does, has a lot of businesses and is successful at many of them. So hosting was really among the very few choices that I had in terms of not stepping on the toes of my former employer or, or looking shady in terms of, you know, there’s always talk when somebody leaves a company and joins another, is that they brought all their client base and all of that stuff. And I just, you know, obviously I still have the contacts. There’s no way I can get rid of them forever because now they’re, a lot of people are more than contacts, center, acquaintances, or friends that I want to stay in touch with. But at the same time, there’s no competition directly or indirectly with any of the things that they are doing.

4 (20m 59s):
Did the fact that it had to do with technical things, appeal to you as well?

2 (21m 7s):
For sure. Yeah. So, so the whole idea of learning a whole new area was magnificent. I felt, I felt sad. I mean, I guess every time you leave a job that you’ve done for a long time and, and really liked, you feel sad leaving, like your people, you work with, you feel sad leaving the team as well as the customers that you work with directly. But even then, you know, I knew they were going to do well without me. So that, that felt lighter, but it was time to learn new things for sure. And, and I’m very happy for the opportunity that Brad gave me with learning hosts.

4 (21m 47s):
Yeah. Yeah. I was personally, I was shocked to see you leave. Cause it was like, wait, Natalie’s leaving. It’s like everybody so associated you with that company that we watched you grow up in that company. So it was kind of like, yeah, it was a shock to the system for all of us in the adult family. How are there so many hosting choices okay. Out there? How is mojo hosts different from everyone else?

2 (22m 17s):
So there there’s actually many ways, but let me focus on some of the main ones. One is that we never compromise on quality. So when, so obviously it’s easy to be a cheap host as cheap as possible, but actually providing value is, is also very important than much harder. We always focus on quality. Every decision we make is geared towards quality of service. It has to do with the network it has to do with the hardware, anything that has to do with technical support. Obviously that’s what we’re known for, for very, very high touch tech support and going above and beyond anything that a hosting company usually would offer because we do, you know, we help customers plan out their infrastructure.

2 (23m 4s):
We help customers implement, you know, go through the growth pains and implement new things that will help their websites grow. We fine tuned the servers to the point where it’s optimized and perfect for what they’re trying to do. We worked directly with customers to try to resolve any problem they have. And if our team can’t do it and we’ll find somebody who will, and that has to do with pretty much anything. I mean, people come to me for QA advice to help them, you know, make sure that there’s no bugs on their websites. People come to me to ask which domain name Dubai people. Yes.

2 (23m 44s):
And then people come me to ask what billers to use. People come to me and ask what CMS systems they, the would be able to use for certain new project. It kind of goes above and beyond what they are used to in terms of hosting support. And we always help. That’s part of our, part of our motto. Be a nice thing.

1 (24m 4s):
If I can, if I can interject it’s part, I think any time your you’re doing sales and you’re working closely with somebody, you become a trusted partner, not just a salesperson, which you, which is what

2 (24m 18s):
Yes. And what I actually enjoy it because in the long run, obviously not because, because I just like helping people in general, but it obviously also helps my business because the better off the company is, and the better they grow, the more hosting they end up needing. But other than that, the other distinguishing factor is that we aren’t a corporate machine. We are very human. We’re very humane. And we are always approachable. Customers can text bread in the middle of the night, which I asked them not to do and to reach out to me and said, but we, we are approachable and we are human.

2 (24m 60s):
We will always understand and support our customers through highs as well as lows. You know, there’s just for example, I have an interesting example, actually. You remember last winter there was fires in LA. Yes. So before that, a couple of months before that we spoke to a company that’s based there and offered them hosting and they were using Amazon and they got her quotes thought about it. It was great. It was saving the money, but it was just so much work to move them out. Frankly, Amazon snared them with something where it costs them $8,000 to move out because of the outbound bandwidth costs.

2 (25m 42s):
Yes. So, so basically they were sort of a, a, a hostage to their hosts because of the rates, then the way that they were set up. So they weren’t sure they wanted to make the move. It’s a very large company. So, so it’s not necessarily a gigantic sum for them, but it’s still, it’s still very evidence there. So they weren’t really sure they wanted to make the move just because migrations are never simple. And the expected issues, especially with large digital businesses. So they weren’t sure they wanted to move. And eventually the fires broke out and they’re all stuck in tents with barely any access to the internet.

2 (26m 24s):
And they can’t even log in to their banking to pay their bill with Amazon. And I was on says, we’re cutting you off in seven days.

1 (26m 34s):
It’s a very Amazon thing to do actually.

2 (26m 37s):
And I understand their corporate business. They’re not making those choices. They don’t have the tools or the procedures to make choices as humans. They make them as computers too. And they’re like, well, this is our livelihood. And this is obviously a forced majority situation, but they were just sent from one person to another and never got any resolution. So they called us and said, Hey guys, what are the chances we can move in seven days? And I’ll tell you, this migration is like, that usually would take two or three months working overnight 24 seven. We migrated them in six and a half days over to Mojer host and gave them unlimited credit until the situation is resolved with, you know, being uprooted due to the fires.

2 (27m 27s):
And luckily, you know, they hadn’t lost any property. And then the ed went back to their homes and everything went back to normal. They caught up on their bills, but we were there for them to help them through a very difficult time. And I think we’ve gained a very, very devoted customer from that. And do you really ever see that from a corporate machine or a larger business with a lot more tears and eight levels of approvals for anything? So that’s major hosts for you, we’re human and that differentiates us. Yeah.

3 (28m 2s):
Yes. Now you mentioned Brad, your owner, Brad Mitchell, who he’s a past guest on our podcast and he’s in my mind kind of like the mayor of the adult space. You know, I, I got a story about Brad. We were in the why not show in San Francisco, the Lake, great. Why not show? And you might’ve been at that show. And I remember there was like really long dead time at the show. And Brad just said, okay, we’re opening the bar, I’m paying for it. And he just got the bar open and they brought a bar in downstairs in the seminar area room, a seminar room area.

3 (28m 48s):
And he just opened the bar and paid for it. That is Brad Mitchell. So how was it working with Brad every day?

2 (28m 60s):
Well, Fred’s absolutely indefinitely. Not only generous at trade shows. He is an amazing person. He combines generosity and being fucking also with all of his, excuse my language, with all of, all of his just day to day work and looks and actions and decisions. But other than that, he’s actually, he’s humble. He’s nice. You know, anytime there I do something wrong, he is the one giving me excuses. And I’m the one saying, no, no, I, I, I messed this up real bad.

2 (29m 40s):
So, so he’s really, he’s really, really great to work with. Luckily my conscious provides all of the kicks that I’d require anyway, but Brad is just that. I mean, he’s very, very easy to work with. He doesn’t micromanage. He supports my decisions. And frankly, the decision method is very, very simple at motor hosts, which I really, really appreciate. We value every decision based on whether or not it’s good mojo. And that encompasses pretty much everything in terms of is this the right thing to do? Is this the good thing to do? Is this a nice thing to do to our customer?

2 (30m 21s):
Is this, you know, th the, is the decision something that I won’t feel bad about and that makes life so much easier because that on ties my hands to make decisions based on what I think is correct. And, and there’s a great value fit because I think that I fully understand what good mojo is. And I, you know, it just makes things easy. I will never be at fault if I acted on doing what’s right.

1 (30m 51s):
That’s cool. Now it’s interesting because when someone posts about needing hosting on one of the boards, the replies are usually either a hundred percent mojo host or close to a hundred percent. Mojer hosts. Now, I’m sure that’s very gratifying, but doesn’t that also make the expectations a bit higher on the part of the clients

2 (31m 11s):
That’s true. And you know, it’s our job to meet them. The, we do not try to lower our standards or, you know, in order to make sure that people don’t expect too much of us, that’s never happened. We’ve certainly earned a lot of brand fans. And that’s what I sort of call the people who are very happy with her hosting and who recommend us. And that was done through hard work, through giving them a great experience through giving them a wow experience where they are impressed by how well we handle a situation that does not necessarily have to be a good situation, right? I mean, issues happen. Downtimes happen. It’s nobody has full insurance against trouble with their hosting.

2 (31m 56s):
It’s how well the company deals with it that makes that decision work or not work, or makes the person satisfied or dissatisfied with the service. Of course, we also, by doing the right thing, we also help our customers through everything that they need, and we help them through any issues they have, or if there’s a, a problem that they need solved, that’s likely that we can help them solve it. So, so they’re overall happy with pretty much everything, not just their hosting. So our support is great. I mean, the, the response time, the guys there, they’re very knowledgeable. Everyone who speaks to our customer assist is a senior systems administrator, which by the way, is very uncommon.

2 (32m 39s):
Most companies have what is called levels of support, right? And those levels of support start with a talking head, which is the level one, somebody who gets the request and gets the information from the customer level two, which is a person who may be able to solve your problem, but isn’t very experienced. So he doesn’t know how to do it. Then get escalated to level three who goes in and takes care of the requests. And that’s the senior systems administrator. We employ our customer facing staff are all senior level systems, administrators.

4 (33m 15s):
Hmm, God, that sounded, that sounded like Apple. My God frustrates the hell out of me. Every time I call them,

2 (33m 24s):
They will escalate. You know, and I get it. There’s economics of scale in those decisions, but we offer a very high quality service and that high quality service requires us to, to make sure that we don’t differentiate, or we basically don’t stratify our support team and only work with very, very experienced techs. And so that our customers, when they call us, be it in the middle of the night or during the day it’s 24 seven, they know that the person they are reaching in the support staff is able to fix their problem immediately. And we’ll need to escalate it through several levels before they get to it.

4 (34m 3s):
That’s awesome. Now events are obviously a big part of mojo hosts marketing plan. How have the lack of shows affected you?

2 (34m 13s):
I would be saying untruths. If I said that there wasn’t any effect whatsoever, frankly, I think we’ve had record attrition in 2020 for businesses closing down at the same time, people are using the crisis to start new things. So we actually managed to end up in a positive customer influx versus customer attrition over 2020, which was a difficult task. I’ll tell you that. And in terms of where we get our customers, digital trade shows have been fairly successful with that.

2 (34m 57s):
And a lot of our customers are referrals. Thanks to the, the quality of service that we provide. A lot of our customers are referrals from one, or, you know, from one way or another, whether it’s personal or through forums or through other resources, there’s people have published guides about how great mojo host is and how everybody should come in and work with us. So when you provide a service, that’s first people to make a webpage about how great your hosting is. And you know, most of them, I offered to act as affiliates.

2 (35m 38s):
And obviously we have an affiliate program that pays out a lifetime percentage of what your referral pay. Your referral pays to us. However many people don’t even worry about starting the affiliate account and actually getting a percentage. All they worry about is that their contacts get good hosting and a great service, which we definitely deliver. So there’s that, I mean, the trade shows I missed sorely every week really want to go back to live trade shows, but I think that we’re doing quite well, even in the, you have traveling and business travel.

3 (36m 18s):
Well, we certainly are home a lot more now aren’t we?

2 (36m 23s):
My daughter appreciate it.

3 (36m 24s):
Yeah, I bet she does. Mommy’s there. My, my dogs appreciate it. Now with those were my children now without shows, how does mojo hosts make up for the loss of face to face time with potential clients?

2 (36m 42s):
There’s always zoom calls where we’re available 24 seven for any communication through either our website or Skype or telegram or fiber or WhatsApp. I think I have them all, maybe not signals that’s maybe the only ones that I’m missing so far, but, well, yeah, well there’s so many, so much space in my apps before they start breaking on me, but I’m, I’m considering it as well. Obviously Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all of those resources are open for us. We do our best to make sure that we stay together digitally.

2 (37m 23s):
We propose phone calls for every sales conversation that we have, and those are all video phone calls. So we try to stay on top of continuing the personal communication. And other than that, I mean, we’ve put in efforts in marketing, we started an act of blog that people can check out by going to Mojo’s dot com and clicking blog, where we share interesting and for an important information about infrastructure solutions, as well as other things. I mean, there’s quite a lot of information that you can find in our blog, but since those are created with, you know, mostly my efforts than the blog posts are actually very non-techie.

2 (38m 5s):
So you may find it useful to figure out what it is your infrastructure includes by just going to a blog and reading through that.

3 (38m 15s):
We’ve got a nice newsletter too.

2 (38m 17s):
Yeah. So we, we try to, we do our best to, to keep in touch with our customers. I think our latest newsletter got it, giant word of approval from everyone. Since we announced that we’ve just launched a free DDoSs protection for our entire network. So those are very cool news. And a lot of people are very happy with it. That DDoS protection is already active for every customer at no extra cost.

3 (38m 42s):

2 (38m 44s):
So that’s handled as well as I think on this one, bread approved a increase in default bandwidth allotment per server in our European servers, which is another nice little carry on top of that cake. So every, all of the, every server now comes with 200 terabytes of bandwidth and that’s eight times more than, as, than it was. And I think it’s very well, eight times or 80 times more than most hosting companies offer. I think the default now in, in most hosts offers is 10 terabytes,

3 (39m 26s):
Pretty cool news.

2 (39m 27s):
And then, so we try to keep, keep in touch with our customers. Mostly it’s either email or passengers. I even started a telegram channel, which isn’t very popular at the moment, but I’m working on, I’m working on making it useful and populating it with interesting content before I could actually start inviting people there. And that’s going to be a techie channel where I’ll talk in easy terms about infrastructure thing.

3 (39m 57s):
Add me. I’d love to see it. Cool. Yeah. So what is your, what does your typical Workday look like?

2 (40m 4s):
Well, it really varies and it depends on what’s on my to-do list. And since my to-do list includes everything, my joke about that by the way, is in washing dishes. My joke is that if I need to walk the dog in order for the company to do better, I will. So whatever needs to be done today, isn’t necessarily what needs to be done yesterday. Obviously I take care of sales matters, the social media platforms, anything in terms of, so we’re always open to looking for new technical staff. So I do some of the HR screenings and meetings, phone calls, anything in between.

2 (40m 48s):
I handle all of our sales by sales targeted inbound tickets, just quite a lot of juggling, but it’s fun. I actually started a new beam thing on Twitter, which I don’t know if I’ll continue. I need a lot of inspiration for making funny means, but they’re basically infrastructure means that matter. And usually are, are funny. So if you want to check out our Twitter, that’s at Mojer hosts.

3 (41m 15s):

2 (41m 16s):
I think I’m doing fairly well. Sows, thanks to meme generator,

3 (41m 22s):
Those things.

2 (41m 24s):
Obviously I try to make them useful as well as funny

3 (41m 26s):
Indeed. How do you envision infrastructure progress within the next five to 10 years? So that’s

2 (41m 35s):
Sort of a stab in the dark because we don’t know what we’ll get. Well, maybe eventually quantum computing will happen, but that’s sort of out in the future and it’s hard to predict what I think needs to happen is optimization. And it’s certainly going that way. So I think that’s content storage is definitely going to move towards a cloud and we are definitely angling to move in that direction as well. We already have some cloud cloud solutions available for our customers and several fully managed private clouds. And so, so the cloud is definitely here to stay.

2 (42m 18s):
Despite the fact that people are sometimes disillusioned with it, it’s, you know, it has its use cases. And then sometimes the dedicated server is better. It depends on the size of the project and what it is. What I think we’ll optimize is static. Content is easily going to move entirely to the cloud. So anybody who has a server, that server is just going to host the active files or the what is called dynamic files. And then static is everything that does not need any changes. So video files, photos, actual, you know, anything, that’s a static, we’ll go into the cloud and be stored there while the servers will have their hands on tied to handle much more bandwidth.

2 (43m 9s):
And it’s a bottleneck of constantly having to upgrade drives, you know, every six months or every 12 months is going to stop being a problem for most of our customers since the cloud is infinitely scalable, I believe this year we aim to expand our cloud to 10 petabytes.

4 (43m 26s):
Well, I’ve never heard that term.

2 (43m 29s):
That’s a very, very, very large number.

4 (43m 32s):
And what is it? How many terabytes is a petabyte? She’s thinking I can, I can hear the wheels going now. If you don’t know, you don’t have to say it’s okay. 10 millions. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don’t have to it’s okay. You know that, let me move on to the next question. What are some, what are some of the issues in hosting today?

2 (44m 4s):
A few, I guess part of the reason that hosting is making a lot of changes. And part of the reason why we introduced network wide DDoS protection is that DDoSs is becoming far more prevalent and the attacks are becoming far more intricate and unusual for sure. So this isn’t just a simple matter anymore and going forward mean the, I feel like it will grow and become even easier for businesses to, or for hackers to attack businesses because of the internet of things, of all things, because a very, very smart hacker can actually break into a doorbell or at an air purifier that’s connected to the internet and use that to attack your website.

2 (45m 2s):
Yeah. You know, not only that they would break into hundreds of hundreds of them and then start selling or start sending simple requests to your server to try to overwhelm it. And just the way that it’s going and how, how many of those devices are coming out now, it’s going to be easier and easier for them to do that. Oh, sure. So security, I feel like is going to be a major thing and a very important thing in the thing that will be actively developed aside from that the content is getting larger. So any infrastructure solutions that help deliver that content faster are going to be a big hit for sure, because you know, 4k files are larger and people are, you know, they won’t be happy with 720 P video.

4 (45m 54s):
No wait until when until 16 wait until 16 K becomes the standard

2 (46m 0s):
That’s yeah. So it’s going that way. Not to mention VR, we have several customers who have VR and those files are gigantic. And so nobody’s going to spend half an hour trying to download the one video. Nope. What they want is to stream it. And streaming video of that size really requires a local delivery, a local delivery from a node nearby that CDN allows you to set up. So what CDN or the, the, the term you stumbled upon during the introduction? Yeah,

4 (46m 36s):
I didn’t stumble. I was just messing around, but anyway, sorry

2 (46m 42s):
For content delivery network and a CDN cashews content worldwide, the content that is active and busy, what we call hot content. It gets cashed worldwide than anybody who is in that same location will get that content much more quickly because of the proximity to the server. You know, but with internet, one of the biggest limiting factors is how far things are because although things travel at the speed of light, those milliseconds add up during every hop that that data takes to get to your user and the less hops there are the better, obviously for local content, it will be much faster delivered and therefore there will be no lag and you will be able to stream it with no trouble.

4 (47m 28s):
Sure. Well, Natalie, I’d

1 (47m 30s):
Like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I really hope we’ll have a chance to do this again really soon. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation that the potential buyers may want to find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content number of images and videos. How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years.

1 (48m 13s):
If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports. Get all of the information organized in the legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything that a potential buyer needs to know such as are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts, et cetera? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale.

1 (48m 57s):
And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to shuck, Coon Sethi of tickle.life.

0 (49m 11s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Natalie Pannon. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry writer Ralph Grecco.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.

0 (55s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale that adult site broker we’re offering a rapidly growing hair, shaving site. The site shows women getting their head shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it is much easier to promote than most adult sites. The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they’re getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site that is a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation.

0 (1m 36s):
It handles the billing and rebuilding user information and video displays. There’s also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sale. The first month alone, there is no paid advertising. They go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos and social media. The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. This site has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars.

0 (2m 19s):
There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview, I guess today, an adult side broker talk is adult industry writer, Ralph Greco. Ralph, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Well thank you for having me. It’s great to be here. Great to have you. Now. Ralph is a professional writer of blogs, columns, reviews, interviews, fiction poetry. Let me get my breath songs, SEO copy. And one act plays for both mainstream and adult clients.

0 (2m 59s):
Now Ralph’s

1 (3m 0s):
Short fiction, both erotic and mainstream poetry and essays have been published in eight countries in major market magazines and small press and various anthologies and single author. Short story collections. Ralph’s one act plays have been published in a complete collection as they’ve been produced across the U S his self pen self-produced salicious songs and dirty words. Theater show have been performed off Broadway in New York city. I love that. I love that name now. Ralph was also an ASCAP licensed songwriter and recording artists, and he teaches classes across the U S at kink conventions.

1 (3m 42s):
Ralph just launched a music site, Ralph Greco, that’s spelled G R E C O music.com. And he has a podcast called licking non vanilla. I love it. Now, Ralph you’re, you’re a professional writer of songs, fiction, web copy, and plays. So a wide range of material. Do you have a favorite type of writing among all the stuff you do?

2 (4m 8s):
Oh, yeah, I don’t. I it’s a tough one. You know, it, it comes by, you know, assignment or, you know, I would say it’s always, I say this whole time, I say I’m a hack, basically, you know, the, the work comes in. I don’t, I don’t wait for the muse to come to come tickling my balls. You know, I’m going to do it when the work comes in. But I would say out of all the things I write, the thing that has my heart the most is the songwriting, but that’s something I do mostly for myself. I’m not usually commissioned to do that for, for anybody else. I was, I was in the game, the music business for awhile when I was younger and could fit into, you know, spend X pants.

2 (4m 49s):
And, and now that I’m older, I, I don’t pursue it in the same way. I’m still professional position and I’m still pursuing it professionally, but I, and you know, the music business has changed greatly, so I don’t pursue it in the same way. And it has more of my, my it’s more, I hate to use this word, but it’s more, more of the art for me than anything else. You know, that’s what it is.

1 (5m 13s):
Yeah. I think musicians who do other things, that’s always going to be their first love, and I probably could have fit into spandex pants too, but I would have looked terrible. Why, why is songwriting your favorite type of work?

2 (5m 28s):
That’s the curious expression, I think from what’s in my head and my, my marrow, it seems to come out directly, you know, I just get, get my guitar and I go, and, and also if I want to get that out or haven’t heard or performed or whatever, I can, it’s usually more direct. And I can see the reaction immediate from, from somebody who was listening, as opposed to write you write a short story. I don’t get to experience the people, the short story, see what they feel. Only if somebody writes me back and tells me if they liked it or not. So I think it’s probably just the immediacy of their, of, of what it is with the songwriting.

0 (6m 7s):
Yeah. Next time. We’ll have you have your guitar on, yeah. Now maybe we need a new theme song. Now, how did you get into erotic writing in the first place?

2 (6m 20s):
Well, I’ve always been a writer always, and I’ve been trying to publish for a while. What happened was back in the day. And there was, I guess this is like, I’m thinking mid eighties, mid to late eighties. I had a friend who was going to do some voiceover work for a guy who wrote, who were made 800 and 900 number Colin service. And it’s before him, before he had it all on servers, but it was not on the computer was you just call him. And some girl would, would be reading a sexy story. And when we went over to his apartment would cause she said, well, come with me. I’m not sure if this guy’s on the up and up. So come with me just to make sure. So when would this girl and her friend, and we met this couple and they were really great people.

2 (7m 4s):
And as we were there, she was reading some of the stories and he had me read some stuff in the stories and dialogue. And somewhere along the way, he said, we got to talking about it. If he needed a writer. And I said, I’ve, you know, I’ve been thinking about Radhika for awhile. I love to get into this. So I started penning 800 and 900 phones, prerecorded phone, SEPs, sex scripts. And that’s how it started. It was really funny, you know, back in the day when you could do that kind of thing, it’s not like that anymore, but what, it was a lot of fun actually, and a good, a good way to get my feet wet.

0 (7m 37s):
Well, I mean, I mean, besides a Ooh baby, baby, I’m getting wet. I mean, what

2 (7m 45s):
It was scenarios, you know, you set up a scenario right. In the 800 number, the 900 number was, was more explicit, the 800 number wasn’t. So there were certain specific rules to follow, which was a good challenge for a writer because you only write a certain parameter. And yeah, there was a lot of, you had to get to the, the meat of the subject, set it up and get to the,

0 (8m 6s):
Was that it was that the meat of the subject. Was that a punt?

2 (8m 10s):
Hell yeah. I can say it. You can say that, but so you’d get to, you get to this little slot a equals into slot B stuff quickly, but you had to sit there and it was typical scenarios, you know? Oh, a principal. I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t know that I, you know, I’m sorry that I w I was already three times this week school, you know, that kind of thing was that it was, you know, a lot, a lot of women frolicking and, you know, and, and

0 (8m 35s):
You’re gonna have to, you’re gonna punish me

2 (8m 39s):
Exactly, but it was, it was a hoot and a half. And the girl, the girl I went with was, it was a good friend. So she was fun and watching her read this stuff. And then the next time I came back, I gave him a couple of scripts and he bought them and I was on my way. That’s great. Erotic writing. Are you doing

1 (8m 56s):
These days?

2 (8m 58s):
Well, the fiction I do is pretty much niche based around BD BDSM, you know, spanking kind of stuff. But I do a lot of cross genre. I like to get fat higher in science fiction and erotic in when I can. All one story. And that’s, that’s what if you were to ask me what my favorite type of fiction writing, that’s my favorite type when I can, but I can mix that tire and either some sort of fantasy or science fiction element with erotica. That to me is really a hoot and a half. I really liked that a lot.

1 (9m 30s):
Okay. Now it seems like everybody, these days has a podcast, even me, what do you do to make sure your podcast is unique and worth listening to

2 (9m 44s):
That’s a real, that’s a real good question. And I, I’m sure you search for the same thing. Well, I do the club podcast with a fellow writer, M Christian, and he’s somebody I’ve known for a long time, a fellow erotic writer. And he’s also a guy that I teach the teach classes. When we have kink conventions. At one point we were teaching our classes there. And anyway, so we get on the podcast. I try not to, we were initially going to make it about erotica writing, but then we realized that’s a little too. Maybe it’s a little too tight. You know, I don’t know if many people are going to be able to tune in, but I don’t know how many people work. So we try to keep it as in as inclusive as possible.

2 (10m 27s):
And, and it’s, it’s interesting, but you have to, I feel you have to kind of take it away from yourself as much as possible and keep it relatable to the outside. You know, you know, think about the audience I’m always thinking about, because I think because I’m a performer, I always thinking about the audience. The more you think about somebody sitting in a chair, never heard this song before I have to engage them. Same with the guest something. And these people don’t know me. And like you just said, there’s tons of podcast out there. So at to be engaging and interesting and not. So this is just about me. This is just about what I’m doing. And a lot of podcasts I hear are the guy gets on and the girl gets on and they’re talking about their little minutia, the little world.

2 (11m 8s):
And I don’t know how interesting that is to tell you. And also we try to get on as many guests as we can.

1 (11m 12s):
Yeah. Yeah. The, the answer is, it’s not very interesting. And unless you’re a celebrity talking about minutia, isn’t really going to get you there.

2 (11m 23s):
I agree with you a hundred percent, a hundred percent. But the world we live in is, is that we’re, we’re used to tweeting and tweeting and posting about ourselves all the time. Right. And that’s what we do. And I don’t because I’m such an evolved human being, but that’s a different story. But, but what happens is that becomes this, this scent in this kind of this egocentric view of the world, that we have something that’s stated so important that somebody just got to come onto our podcast and listen to us because we’re such a hoot and a half. But like you just said, unless you were a celebrity, I don’t think it’s all that interesting. So you better make damn interest somebody and work hard to make it interesting as you know, there’s what you do.

1 (12m 4s):
Yeah. Well, I mean, my philosophy on it is I’m going to bring people on. They’re going to be interesting, like yourself to other people in, in our industry. And the key is to bring people from all aspects of the industry, plus offer something to them about what we do and give them free information, which we end are we end our podcast with tips on buying and selling websites. So if they want to buy and sell their own websites, go for it, man. Right. But that’s, that’s the best way. That’s the best way to give it away for free, right?

2 (12m 41s):
Yeah. I think, I think you’ve got a, there’s gotta be a reason that tuning in and, or saying, and not only doing end, but staying with you, staying with a whole pot, the whole episode, as much as coming back next week to listen again or wherever you’re going to be. You know, so there’s there’s but, but that the onus is on, I think that’s the thing. I think the performer and, or the podcast or whoever the onus is on us to deliver a hundred percent and we can’t ever forget that because that that’s really important, you know?

1 (13m 10s):
Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right now you also teach it kink conventions. What do you teach? And what’s that like? Well, when they had them,

2 (13m 19s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we, it was actually, we did Chris and I, our favorite class to do there was, it was a writing course. So we did an erotic writing course, which was, which was a food and a half. It really was a lot of fun. We did, we did, you know, various different. A lot of our classes are centered around a lot of soft core, you know, play and fun stuff and nothing. We w we didn’t do anything hardcore. Although those can come in, kink conventions can run from the, you know, the novice all the way up. And they usually do. They have a wide variety of people at them, but it was, it was, it was a lot of fun. And we, Chris and I got to travel across the country.

2 (14m 3s):
And because Chris lives in a different, he lives in Oregon. So I live in Jersey. So we would meet it certain like Vegas or St. Louis. And we met a lot of great people. We got to, you know, walk our books a little bit and get known. And it was, it was really a lot of fun. I met some of the best people ever at those conventions, because those are people who were there for a weekend to have a great time, let themselves have a little fun, but nobody’s, nobody’s taking anything so serious. And everybody’s, everybody’s real respectful and, and real, it was just, and, and we get to travel to cool places. You don’t go to Vegas for free. So Y you know, we’re having a great time. You know, I have a, I have a client in Vegas too, so it was good to always go there and touch base and say, hi, you know, so that kind of stuff was wonderful.

2 (14m 47s):
Absolutely wonderful.

1 (14m 48s):
Yeah. I used to think Vegas was cool until I went there for the 85th time. And then I was like, this isn’t cool anymore.

2 (14m 57s):
Yeah. Well, and, and I’m interested in, I think we all are in some way to see how, what, what happens now, you know, how things are going to return. And I think we’re, I think we’re all interested about that across the board. I try not to get my mind so much on any of that stuff, but it’s options, you know, that there’s going to be some, some interesting tweaks and shifts of the way we do things. So,

1 (15m 20s):
Yeah, I mean, living out here in Asia, I feel really bad for my brothers and sisters in, in America and other countries that have been hit so hard by COVID. I happened to live in the country that was, that has been affected maybe the least in the entire world and has maybe done the best job of dealing with it. So I, I consider myself extremely fortunate. Plus we’re not overrun by tourists. There’s no tourists. So while I feel bad for the people who work in the tourism industry, it’s like heaven right now.

2 (15m 58s):
Yeah, that’s true. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s definitely, I, I constantly know people, people were using that term, the new normal, and I say, there’s nothing normal about anything that’s happening, you know, nothing normal, you know, and, and I don’t think anything good is coming from, but either to tell the truth, but you know,

1 (16m 14s):
The only good things that have that are coming out of it, I think are what’s happening with the environment? Is that the environment isn’t being as damaged as it normally would at this point,

2 (16m 29s):

1 (16m 30s):
You don’t have, you don’t have as many airplanes in the air. You don’t have as many cars moving around. You don’t. Yeah. I mean, it’s not as many boats that has many cruise ships. So the things that are probably the most damaging to the environment are being taken away for the time being. But no, I don’t, I don’t think the word normal is ever going to be what we consider normal. Again, I can’t, I can’t see it, but, you know, I’m sure there will be some good Ford as well. So what are the S in your, in your view, what are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about those of us who work in the adult field?

2 (17m 11s):
Hi, you know, one of the things is that dirty stuff is on our mind constantly. Now it’s on my mind constantly.

1 (17m 18s):
I was going to say, why isn’t that true?

2 (17m 20s):
It is true, but you know, we’re, we’re functioning, you know, we’re going around the day, you know, going into the grocery store and, and pet and our, our, our, you know, our animals and having dinner with our, with our folks. And, you know, like, we’re, we’re, we’re just like anybody else, because I say this all the time I live in, I live on a dead end street, suburban street, if you, and if I walk out out of my door and look at the, the many neighbors houses, I there’s Mo there’s a multitude of things going on. Those windows, you know, things that I probably couldn’t even write as good as what’s going on behind those windows as far as interesting sexual maneuvers and kinks. Right. So we’ll all involve some way.

1 (18m 1s):
Maybe you should knock, maybe you should knock on more doors. Well,

2 (18m 5s):
You know, because I know my neighbors anyway, so I know what’s going on, but it’s just funny to think that, you know, the first, the first reaction is, Oh, you write, you write that stuff, you know? And I’m like, well, first of all, everybody’s thinking this stuff anyway, everybody’s engaged in their own little ad, what they want or what they do and how to get it. And all that kind of stuff. The woman, I just happened to be more in the world of it. And also it would say, what’s that saying about the cobbler’s kids are not shod, you know, because you’re in the business, you’re not interested in, in it, in the sector the normal way. And that’s not true. I just have to say, my lip is no different or more, or less than just because I write this stuff all the time, but I don’t think it is my libido.

2 (18m 49s):
So I think that, you know, but we’re, we’re just normal people like everybody else, we really, we’re not, we’re no different than any, but we’re just doing a job. Just happened to be, this is the job we do

1 (18m 58s):
Since this is how we make money. Yeah. I’ve got to say though, I don’t look at porn the way I used to, not that I really spent much time looking at porn, but now it’s kind of like, you look at it as an insider and you look at it like, okay. And with more of a critical eye, and it’s a business. When I had a pay site, I started to get bored at looking at, at a women’s bodies. And I thought, man, that would never happen.

2 (19m 27s):
Well, he had the guy that <inaudible> thing, but I, you know, I don’t know. I, I think that I, well, I, I only, I only ever watched anything salacious when I have to review it or write for it in some way. I don’t, I I’ve never been a bitter devotee of porn and I’ve never even been interested in it in any kind of level. So the only time I watch it is nah, you know, is to, is to engage in it some way with the writing. So I, I, my, my viewpoint on it, it’s always been this been, Oh yeah. It’s whatever it is, but I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know if I would be any more interested or any less interested in it, you know, if I didn’t, wasn’t in the middle of it, you know, and you know,

1 (20m 11s):
Okay, so you do reviews. How do you like that?

2 (20m 15s):
It’s fun. You know, I mean, you know what I try to do, I try to, and that’s funny you say that word too, because I really do re consider myself a reviewer and not a critic. And I, and I think thinks is important because the people who make music or make a movie or make any piece of thing that they work in on, whatever, any, even if it’s whatever it is, I always figured let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. They went out there and they tried to make it. And whether you like it or not. So I try not to be, so I not, I try not to be a critic as much as a reviewer and enough in the review that if you, you may come to it or not, let you make, make your, your own mind about it and not try to be so hypercritical about it.

2 (20m 56s):
And I can be that way. Like anybody else, things set me off really well or not, but I just try not to be a critic because there’s just so much criticism of, of work. And I think if you have to, and you try to do the work, like you don’t, even, if the last thing you need is somebody criticizing it. So I try to be gentle and just review it, honestly, review it and say, this is what it reminds me of. This is what you may like about it. And this is what that’s that’s, as far as I go,

1 (21m 22s):
Are you, are you review reviewing? I can talk. Are you reviewing sites and also clips and movies?

2 (21m 32s):
Yeah, I do both, you know, I’m a little bit, and I reviews toys. You don’t get the toy in and review it a little bit and see if it works in the way it works. Yeah. That’s fun because you get to use it either. You get to have a toy and, and you know what, there’s a, there’s a sameness to certain things, you know, especially if you get into an, into reviewing and like niche content, you know, it’s going to go, you know, femdom, for instance, it’s going to have a same Instagram, you know, the same fact wall, but when you kind of, you know, you just kind of give it a, you feel fine, the nuances and stuff. But, but I, I enjoy that because I know somebody put their time and energy into it.

2 (22m 12s):
And I think they deserve at least a little bit of, you know, a little bit of my attention, enough of my attention. If I’m going to review it, it could be, you know, nice about it and not critical. Yeah.

1 (22m 26s):
Yeah, no, I get it. And that’s, that’s a good thing. Cause I’ve been both reviewed and criticized in some of my life’s work.

2 (22m 34s):
Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, you know, it’s hard enough as it is to even put it out there, you know, and, and get it done and put out there. And, you know, I don’t know if we, if we need to knock as much as well. I don’t think we need the false praise, but we also don’t need a jab. I mean, who needs it?

1 (22m 52s):
Absolutely. What, what review sites are you working?

2 (22m 56s):
I was writing, this was interesting. I write for a hot movies and what’s fun about hot movies is they would, they would, they commissioned me to write essay less about the review of the movies, but more an essay about a certain subject. And then within that essay, I would reference their movie. So they had, they bought a whole spate of a spanking movies. So they wanted like some Spanky one-on-one essays tutorials. So I wrote that and then I would, I would use grab their certain titles so they could put them in there, you know, for SEO purposes. So, you know, you see keyword searching, so what was writing for them? And that was what I w I wrote some toy reviews for cycled Tracy’s dog, which is, which is actually an agent site.

2 (23m 42s):
And so they sent me out some, some really toys. I mean, well-made, and you know, when I’ve worked for Adam and Eve to do some stuff, and I’ve worked for vivid back in the day, vivid was doing w dividend wicked would put, we’re putting in a lot of DVDs. They don’t so much anymore, but, you know, they have their, they have their content, so cool. And, you know, then it’s kind of like, whatever, whatever comes up, whatever somebody needs, I can kind of be plugged into it and figure it out. You know,

1 (24m 15s):
Keep that in mind. Now what’s been, what’s been the good and bad about the digital revolution as it relates to the adult industry.

2 (24m 26s):
Well, I guess the one thing is this kind of a thing, right? I mean, I could, I never would have been able to connect with people this way. Was it over a podcast and, or have my, my books, my eBooks read or seen, you know, years ago, I’d have to produce the book and print the book and have boxes of them in my basement. And now I don’t have to worry about this stuff. So the digital revolution, the facility and the convenience is just fantastic, you know, and it can have connectivity, but you know, at the same time there is a lessening of quality. Oh yeah. Because we’re, we’re going for convenience sometimes before we worry about an obsolescence there’s built in obsolescence and things with the digital world.

2 (25m 9s):
And, and then, you know, we, we, we’ve all experienced, this is a great pirating problem. You know, content is being stolen, put up other places, you know, and it that had, we have, you know, you know this, for sure. We’ve seen that, that come in and destroy, cut a great, big, pretty bunch of big, negative swatch through the industry in a lot of ways, you know, and a lot of people ran for cover. But then again, you know, we, we see this all the time. If you could make a better mouse trap and we’ve seen people who do, then you could make it. I worked with Neil at clips for sale for awhile. And, you know, he’s learned how to circumvent that digital thing where we’re taking content and putting it somewhere else.

2 (25m 54s):
He just, he said, well, you know, people want lesser amount of time and content. Let’s just make a site that people can load the pro the provider can load on here. So, Oh, and he’s done any, you know, I don’t, I know him a little bit. We’ve, I’ve had him on my podcast and he’s a great guy and he’s very, very transparent, very open. This is what I did. You want to come on? You’ve got content there’s there, there, there’s what we do. And so he built a better mouse trap seeing that the digital world was opening up. So, you know, I guess, you know, as well as I do, you can’t stop progress. So you just either have to find your way in there and do the things and take to the things that work for you and the things that don’t, you just, you don’t get involved with.

2 (26m 36s):
And I’m like that, like anybody else

1 (26m 39s):
Now, do you have a set routine as a freelance writer? Maybe you can describe a typical day

2 (26m 45s):
For me. Okay. Well, I get up and, you know, I have to, I have to negotiate between the two, whatever two buxom lasses have slipped, you know, sandwiched me at the, at the night. So I got to figure it out. So, you know, I never, I have to kiss the boat on a forehead cause you know, you never want to get out of the bed and make them feel bad, leaving the bed. It’s cold now. I feel terrible. So that’s the first thing. Then, then I hit, you know, I hit the, I hit the crack pipe for a while and do some blow. And then I get up in the morning, have some coffee. And I, I, it’s funny.

2 (27m 25s):
I can write right out of bed. I can get out by that sometimes.

1 (27m 28s):
Well, after that, after the crack and the blow, I would think,

2 (27m 35s):
But it’s funny, usually something, I, I get ideas like just this week will this state, you know, just as I’m getting up and, but I’m real good hitting the ground running in the morning. I’m real good at sitting down. And I usually have four or five different things on my desktop at a time that I need to get to. And I can usually hit the ground running and, you know, plow through coffee and a little bit of breakfast and just go until sometime in the early afternoon, when I hunger sets in and up, they go, Oh, maybe I should stop and go get something to eat or take a walk. But I’m pretty good. Mainly through the morning, into the early afternoon. And then like, if I have the podcast to do, or if I have a couple, I have some song stuff to do.

2 (28m 18s):
That’s usually when I break to do that, like rattle lunchtime, you know, so, but I usually hit the ground running, writing very early in the morning and just go, no, no, no.

1 (28m 28s):
What have been a couple of your favorite examples of your work?

2 (28m 32s):
Well, okay. I just put out a new, a new book that he put out with pink Flamingo, which is a company I’ve never worked with before called the name of that book is no whip, no problem. And what’s it called? It’s called no whip, no problem. And it’s a short story collection and that’s one of my more it’s by most recent work. And also one of my more favorite ones I’m trying to think of what else is, there’s a, you know, in the erotica fields, there’s a lot of stuff out there. I, I like, I tend to like the blogs that I write for looking non vanilla and then looking on below will say that right about two blocks a week. And they’re pithy and fun.

2 (29m 13s):
I have another column called the sex files, which is on a, a site in New York and LA and that’s fun. So in, and I have clients I write for, and, and I do a lot of ghost writing, non adult related ghost writing. I write bios and, you know, insurance, how to, and all that kind of stuff. And that ghost writing that I don’t, nobody knows that I’m doing that writing, but those books came up. There’s those books out and that’s, that’s mainstream that has nothing do with the adult world. And that’s a lot of fun because totally different, you know?

1 (29m 46s):
Yeah, absolutely. Now how has your real life different or the same from you?

2 (29m 52s):
Well, in the erotica, I lost a lot of, you know, well, I don’t know. I guess I’ll be as discreet as possible. I have had a rich fun heterosexual existence as younger. And so a lot of what I write about is either the fiction is either from those experiences or, or, you know, amalgamations of those experiences or fantasy from those whatever. So I had a, I had a pretty good run because I was in a band in my twenties and I went to a school that for girls to every guy. So, you know, things were good back in the day. So I was a bit of a re you know, I had some good times.

2 (30m 33s):
So I would say nowadays by white, my life is a little bit calmer. I’m older and a little, I like to think my, my sexual life is a little more nuanced now, but you know, back in the day it was like everybody’s role, well, full of piss and vinegar back in the day. So, but nowadays, and it’s interesting. I was just thinking to say, yes, this question, the fiction is more nuanced now because my, my life in general was more nuanced. So I think, you know, the art, you know, art reflects the fiction and the fiction fiction reflects art or whatever it is. I think that’s true in my, and certainly in my case.

1 (31m 15s):
Interesting. That’s interesting now. Yeah. You mentioned when we were talking before we went on that you live in New Jersey, you’re from New Jersey. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about your upbringing and led you to where you are?

2 (31m 31s):
My upbringing is more normal than you could possibly believe. I have, I have a younger sister, my folks are still alive. They’re in their eighties. It’s an Italian-American household in North. And I grew up on a suburban street where everybody knew everybody were in, all the kids were in the, in and out of each other’s houses, you know, and it was my, my, my little group, you know, Halloween time and St. Stickball. I mean, my growing up was idyllic. It was unbelievably wonderful. And I, my family is fantastic and I get along with everybody, everybody gets along with everybody else. So I was allowed a lot of freedoms and I was allowed to grow in my, my, my quote, unquote art, you know, and, and explore the things that, that were interesting, interesting to me.

2 (32m 22s):
And it’s been nothing but nurturing. So I it’s unconditional love. I’ve never known anything else in my life. And it’s, so I have a confidence level. Not, not, I don’t think I have, I do have a relatively solid ego, but I, I have a competence level from being the means. So having such good love in my life that I have, I I’ve been able to explore things and sometimes things don’t work out, but for the most part, I haven’t been able to explore things in and have the freedoms to land up limb, to do the work I do, and not feel ashamed or embarrassed by it. And, you know, and just, just try to treat people nice.

2 (33m 4s):
And that’s, that’s about it. You know, it just keep moving forward. You know, that’s about all, you know,

1 (33m 8s):
So, so where do you see yourself in five years from now?

2 (33m 12s):
I’ve been making inroads now to get the rent, to get my music done. And it’s been, it’s been a long road to get to that point. So that’s kinda most what’s most on my mind. I mean, I’m, I’m doing the writing to make, to make money and keep missing myself and beer and Skittles, but I don’t drink, I don’t eat Skittles, but, but I’ve been trying to, but right now I would say for the foreseeable future, I’m trying best. I can to put a lot of my energy into getting the music done, whether recorded remastered or mixed or whatever I have to do, but that’s kind of, what’s, that’s, what’s most on my mind right now.

2 (33m 56s):
And that’s where I would see myself in the next five years working, eh, working in, working in the writing, always, but working in the music, you know, more having a future and a goal set for that.

1 (34m 9s):
And what do you see happening in your immediate future? Do you have any work that you’re currently finishing?

2 (34m 15s):
Yeah. I’m trying to get books, a couple books done. There’s a book, there’s a memoir I’m writing kind of, it’s an erotic memoir. And, you know, I’ll probably publish that under a pseudonym, which will be the first time I do that. I have also write, I write with a buddy and illustrator. I read a children’s series of books, so that published, and then I have, I have another book music book, I’m, I’m getting in the middle of writing. And so I have a couple of things there, like, right. I gotta look, I’m bugging out, looking at the desktop right now. They’re just on the desktop always. And they’re just kind of looking at me and you got, you gotta finish this, you gotta finish this. You know? So those are the things that are immediate. If I can get those things done within the next couple months into the summer, I’ll feel like I’ve gotten over a hump.

2 (34m 59s):
So, and then whatever, all the other work comes in,

1 (35m 2s):
You know, you’re pretty typical of the creative types that I know. Do you ever feel like you try to take on too much?

2 (35m 10s):
Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t have, I really, I don’t think I have add or BLT or ELP, whatever it is. I don’t think I have any of that. I think what I do have is I just have I grow bored with one thing, you know, I’m in the middle of one project and I’m like, Oh, let me go over there for a little while and do that. And then let me pick up, it’s hard to do that. So, and I’m, I’m not so good at time management. So I have to really work at that. But when a job comes in immediately, I, I I’ll tackle that. I’m very good with emails getting right back to people because I, I have to be, it’s the only way I can, I can function is to, is to get right out and stuff. So I’m, I’m pretty good with, with getting the job done.

2 (35m 53s):
It’s just that the jobs that I need to get done for myself, you know, my books that are laying out there and stuff they’ll take a while because they do jump from one thing to another. So I don’t know if that’s a creative mentality, as much as it’s just what I, the way I, I have four or five folders that are open all the time, you know? So

1 (36m 11s):
I think it’s the creative mentality and I, I’m kind of the same way. So I completely understand that. There’s always a lot of stuff going on.

2 (36m 21s):
Yeah. Right. You know, you, you’re running, you do the podcast, you’re doing this and then somebody could come, he’s contacting you through your business to do this. And you gotta, and you gotta write a letter to this person. And there’s all that stuff going on. But I think that keeps me at least a week, you know, you know, cause it, I think I’m not sure because I always think, well maybe if I just worked on that one book and nothing else, I’d get that book done. And it’s probably true, but I just can’t concentrate that way, you know?

1 (36m 52s):
Yeah. I understand. I have a, like I said, I got a lots of projects that are, that are partially done. So I get it. Of course, some of that, some of that is some of that is development. But anyway, that’s another story altogether. You, you, you have more control over everything. And I, the things I do are, are always somewhat controlled by others, getting them done. Yeah. Other than the adult work, you do. Who else do you work for?

2 (37m 22s):
I work for a company called Harbor books and Arbor puts together me as the ghost writer. Somebody will come to them say, look, I want to write a book about my life. Or I was in the, I was in the dental business for 10 years. I want to write about that or whatever. They come to Auburn as a ghost writer. And one of my biggest clients is a late text of fact manufacturer called Donna matrix designs. And I write for her and that’s a lot of fun because that’s, it’s a little bit naughty, but, but Darren works on fees and she works on a whole bunch of stuff. So she works with lady Gaga and all these people that she, she kind of, she started in the kind of the fetish field kind of went around the back door and kind of now use, you know, doing latex and design differently.

2 (38m 8s):
I used to work for a magazine latex magazine, fashion magazine called Von Gutenberg. It’s not in existence anymore. He was an offshoot of Marquis magazine, which is a very thing anyway. And there’s a couple of the people that are right for on a regular basis were not mainstream or not adult in any kind of way. You know, there, there have to be naked, natural path. I worked for an at and a legal company, you know? So there’s a lot of that type of stuff. I don’t do any pharma or grant writing. There’s the two things I don’t do that takes specific writing, which I don’t have a talent for. And other than that, that’s so really you don’t, I always say I’m in the best sense of the word.

2 (38m 51s):
I’m a hack. You come to me, you have a job to do. I I’m, I’m down for writing. You know, that’s basically how I look at it

1 (38m 58s):
Back in a nice way. Now, have you, now, now, have you ever gotten a project that that’s been proposed to you where you’ve gone? No, I won’t do that.

2 (39m 9s):
The only time it’s happened is when something’s come across. And I know from the background of somebody told me something, or I learned from another source that the, the person whose project it is, or their company is problematic in, in, in ways that I consider them problematic. And somebody else may not. I mean, like in other words, they may not ever get back to you with emails. You have questions, although I’ll never get back to you. Well, that doesn’t help me at all because I have questions. I like to keep in constant contact with my clients. And because they could, they can get me anytime they want I’m available for email anytime. So some people, Oh, well, they’re not so communicative.

2 (39m 50s):
Well, that’s not going to help me. And then I’ve been in the middle of projects where I’m like, eh, couple of weeks in or a month in I’m like, we’re just not, we’re just not connecting. We’re not, and that’s fine because I always say no harm, no foul. I’m fine with that. I don’t want to spin my wheels or have you spin your wheels over, trying to make that square peg round hole. Sometimes it just doesn’t work. And, and I’ve been involved in a couple of those situations and that’s fine. That’s fine. Both mainstream and an adult. That’s fine.

1 (40m 25s):
So nobody’s ever asked you to write something that you just didn’t for whatever reason.

2 (40m 32s):
I’m not, I’m not nothing’s coming to mind. I probably, yeah, I don’t. Yeah. Nothing comes to mind at the moment. Just curious. Yeah, nothing really.

1 (40m 42s):
Now, if somebody is interested in either coming on your podcast or just in contacting you in general, how can they,

2 (40m 50s):
They can find me by writing my email, which would be I’ll spell it. It’s R a L P H I E D a writer. So it’s Ralphy writer@gmail.com and then they could also go to the licking non vanilla page, which is lucky, non vanilla.com. And that’s the podcast. And then, like you said, at the, at the outset too, you can find me at the music page, which is Ralph Greco, music.com. So that’s the three with three best ways to find me. I don’t have a lot of social media presence. That’s just a moral, a moral thing on my court. But yeah. So that’s the way they can, the best way to find me

1 (41m 31s):
Tell writer. So New Jersey

2 (41m 35s):
Writer@gbl.com, the writer come over, I’ll be out, we’ll have a little Kalamata. We’ll hang out. Don’t worry about it. You know, good about it. Have a good time. Forget about it means sometimes it just means to get about it.

0 (41m 55s):
Exactly. Sometimes it means, forget about it. Hey, Ralph, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again real soon. Maybe, maybe when your book comes out,

2 (42m 8s):
I love it. I love it. And you’ll be well. I hope everybody listening, stays well and their families are well and blow. We’ll get through this and thank you for having me on this was wonderful.

0 (42m 17s):
Fantastic, Ralph, my broker tip today is part four. What to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your site, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it later, trademarking, your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends. And if things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re more likely to be willing to pay more for the site.

0 (42m 59s):
Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes your site better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or viewport, be creative, not just one of the many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site. Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to my friend, Natalie PanIN of mojo host.

0 (43m 43s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Ralph Grecco. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (8s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Lianne Young.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.
First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. Pineapple support has a new support group bouncing back from burnout a six week course starting next Thursday, April 22nd at 5:00 PM Eastern time. What happens when the stress of our jobs, our relationships and our daily responsibilities began to take their toll on us.

1 (1m 19s):
How do we bounce back from a seemingly endless cycle of should be and to do in order to feel more invigorated and engaged with our lives. Burnout happens to everyone, but it doesn’t have to be your final destination. In this burnout group, they will explore different ways. Burnout can show up in our personal and work lives gained support around the unique stressors of being in the sex work industry and build skills to manage burnout more effectively. This group welcomes you to bring your overwhelm, your exhaustion, your stress, and your whole self without judgment feeling at your wit’s end.

1 (1m 58s):
So are we, the free speech coalition has released a statement about their past guidance recommending that performers who have been vaccinated for COVID-19 should still test for the virus. FSC also said this requirement could change. This is the FSC statement pass has published a vaccination resorts portal that addresses questions over testing details. New studies regarding transmission and ask performers to provide feedback via a short anonymous survey. We know everyone wants to return to pre pandemic shooting as quickly as possible said Ian O’Brien executive director of pass.

1 (2m 41s):
Our industry has done an exemplary job at preventing COVID on set. And we certainly realized the financial and scheduling burden of today. COVID testing. We asked that vaccinated performers continue to test for the time being as we work to evaluate risk with an vaccinated performer pool, while the risk of serious illness decreases substantially after a vaccination, the data regarding the potential for a person to carry and transmit the virus after vaccination is still unclear, passes. Also looking at the threat of newly emerging variants and working to understand actual risk on set.

1 (3m 23s):
We need to hear from performers and Cruz says O’Brien right now. We don’t yet know how much of the industry is vaccinated or planning on getting vaccinated, nor do we know how performers and crew feel about working with unvaccinated people or without a COVID test. The science is important, but our policies also need to reflect the needs of the industry. Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we are proud to offer one of the longest running adult review sites. The site is a true pioneer in the review space. It’s built a reputation for its quality of reviews with over 28,000 full and original reviews.

1 (4m 4s):
It’s a leader in this space. The site has a wide range of columns and photo galleries. The site is powered by a custom designed CMS, which enables a staff of reviewers to request titles for review, have them emailed and tracked, and then submitted as a review to the database. The flow is pretty seamless and has been rocking and rolling for many years. The team at the site is filled with adult entertainment enthusiasts. All of the sites marketing is organic, which is a tremendous opportunity for a buyer with a traffic network or who wants to purchase traffic all this for only $299,000.

1 (4m 45s):
Now time for this week center, my guest today on adult site broker talk is Leanne young of house of ardent and the Arden podcast. Leanne, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Hey, it’s great to be here. Thank you for having me. It’s great to have you now, Leanne is one of the UKs leading advisors on adult entertainment, sex and relationships. She started her mainstream career in 2002 appearing on shows such as the Jeremy Kyle show, the Tricia Goddard show, how to have sex after marriage and several other mainstream productions as a sex and relationships advisor and porn industry expert.

1 (5m 26s):
She’s also known for covering events, such as AVN. Ex-business the Prowler awards and other adult events around a variety of lifestyles in the adult industry. Leanne has a caring, positive attitude and a desire to help as many people as possible understand different relationships and life choices. Leanne always maintains the highest level of commitment to her work and to clients. Now, Leanne, at what age did you decide to enter the adult industry and why did you do it? Oh, I think

2 (5m 58s):
It was 1999 and I got into it because I was a single mum of two children. And to be honest with you, my relationships beforehand were, you know, very male dominated and to be honest with the sex, wasn’t great. And I suddenly met this great crowd and I got to actually know myself and realized I was pretty good at sex and Barbara enjoyed it. And it, I just got given the opportunity by someone to, I got introduced to the state and his paperwork could buy off to somebody. And I managed to write off to an agent before I knew it. I was on a porn set and I think the main reason was being, I was a single parent of two children living in a counselor state.

2 (6m 41s):
I wanted a better life for me and my children. And I didn’t have the ability to go to work nine to five, five days a week. And I wanted to do a job that I could fully enjoy and having sex with very high up on my life.

1 (6m 57s):
Yeah. I’ve always enjoyed it.

2 (7m 0s):
You tell me somebody who hasn’t

1 (7m 3s):
There are a few out there strangely enough, but there’s all kinds in this world isn’t there. So who was your first agent? How did you meet them and were they what you expected?

2 (7m 17s):
My first agent was JFT modals, which was managed by Jason Maskell and juice. Yeah. Lovely. Jason is fantastic. And you’ve got three that’s 20 years ago and I remember writing off and he was like rag me and he was great. And the week later, I’m up on the train going up to Wellingarden city to meet him. Now, I don’t know what I imagined, but I imagined like an agent probably being suited and booted and having these massive offices, you know, what you see on the movies? You know, the, you know, the fairy world and it was really different because he was just totally different to what I expect, but it wasn’t creepy.

2 (8m 2s):
You know, many people assume that you’re kind of poured into the porn industry. They come and kick that gear from your house or something. And what is true. That’s what people think. And he was actually a real gentlemen, absolute gentlemen. And I stayed at hides the night before he did a it on with me or anything that people would imagine. And he made sure that I knew exactly what I was doing, what was involved, that everything was above board. And to be honest, viewed probably one of the best managers I’ve ever, ever met.

1 (8m 33s):
Now. Now tell me some good memories about the business, some crazy memories and some bad memories.

2 (8m 40s):
Okay. So the great memories, I mean, my first ever shoot via Jason actually was for private and I kind of never, ever performed in my life. You know, I was a little bit nervous, but I was made to feel so much comfortable and it was in this big mansion house and there was, there was, it was just so comfortable and being naive enough. I didn’t know what half the moves were. So it was really, really hubris because, you know, they’re telling me to do stuff and I have to stop the camera go. What is it? What’s that mean? What does this mean? And it was, it’s a different language in the poor world. Yeah. And that’s what was really good and other great parts where, you know, I got chosen as the only other European to represent the whole of Europe in Hollywood.

2 (9m 27s):
It drew Barrymore’s old house actually for an event called sex of either 2000. It’s now available in Playboy. And, you know, I got picked out of the whole porn industry around the world. I was labeled the punk queen of England. And I came second because come on, you’re American, you know, British can’t come first. I mean, you guys and the television, we’re not late to be the winners on television and American production. Hollywood was fantastic to me. The Americans really were amazing. And I suppose the bad parts of the industry, you know, in every industry does have a negative part. Sure. You know, there was some people that kind of, you know, in your personal life would approach you and do things to you that weren’t appropriate.

2 (10m 15s):
And so I think I can’t really have a bad memory of, you know, of actually doing a shoot apart from it in the UK. On a few times, you are sent to, to do a shoot and you are under the impression, it’s just a straight boy, go shoot. And you get there. And they say, nobody’s anal. And you’re like, well, I don’t do anal. And they say, well, if you don’t do it, you’re going to have to pay for the production cost because it means that we’ve, we’re out of pocket. So, you know, so I, that, that’s a very big negative side to her. And, you know, I don’t, like I said, I don’t think I have any bad memories of actually before. I think, I think the bad memories come from people trying to take advantage of me being a performer.

2 (10m 60s):

3 (11m 0s):
Yeah. What about, what about some crazy memories?

2 (11m 3s):
Oh my gosh. You know what I mean? I don’t even know whether they were legal, go for it. Well, okay. So for instance, I’m at the AVN in Las Vegas and it’s like, you know, it goes over a few days and I used, I had, I, you know, I’m in Las Vegas. I wanted to get a little bit drunk. Right. So I went to the Playboy party and this nightclub. Yeah, well, I’d got a little bit drunk and I was a little bit wild. Don’t get me wrong. I was even introduced to Larry Flint is a naughtiest go everywhere over the UK. So I’m in this nightclub and chatting to these strangers from Florida and big party around champagne’s flowing.

2 (11m 44s):
But my feet were hurting from side of my autograph every day. And you know, I kind of needed to take my shoes off in a nightclub. So, so the banks who came over to me and he said, look matter, you can take anything else, but your shoes, health and safety went away. I know. So he comes back about 20 minutes later when I’m still trying to buy a whole group. And I’m absolutely kitty naked, everything apart from my high heel shoes. Perfect.

3 (12m 13s):
I saw it. I could, I could see where this was going, by the way,

2 (12m 19s):
That’s like crazy. I was, and he had to put me over his shoulder and I’m completely naked with just high heels on and never biked it. Like, don’t forget her clothes. She, then I just get excited. And you know, you can’t even go show your nipples in Las Vegas and I’m stood outside this club with somebody covering my nipples. Well, I quickly try and get dressed. So I did have fun. I had to do amazing fun and like doing the sex of over 2000, you know, that’s, that’s an adult version of big brother and that was not because halfway through to production, you know, somebody break the rules. So the shoot got put on hold and we act to make a team arrangement that, you know, yes, we’re for this, the rest of filming, even though it had been their contract with breech, not by myself.

2 (13m 12s):
Yeah. Well, one of the contestants Schachter director shack, the director of camera to try and win the show.

3 (13m 20s):
Sure. You said shag, you said shag. They thought, I thought you, I thought you, I thought you said shot. I, I, I should’ve, I should’ve, I should’ve, I should’ve realized you come from this same country as Austin Powers. And I got to listen for that language. So go ahead,

2 (13m 40s):
Lady decided to have the shag with the director. And of course this one, I liked vape. This went live over the internet because there were cameras everywhere, the big blubber. And so it was actually illegal. So the shoot got shut down and she got evicted or a husband started protesting on top of the house. And then we went on ABC, you know, and I was introduced as Lennox Lewis at the porn world, you know, and it just went back. We were filming day and night blind man’s buff. Oh my God. You know, I can’t think of other names that the games, but we were constantly shagging and I could not wait for the week to be over.

2 (14m 24s):
Cause I swear my love, I think I’ve done about 30 different scenes in a week. So yeah, we had, you know, we just had crazy times, is it? So, I mean, I’ve been to the Playboy mansion. I’ve traveled all over the world, India adult industry, and I’ve got to admit, I don’t have any regrets about my career. Good luck.

3 (14m 47s):
So of all those experiences, what was the most exciting you? Oh

2 (14m 52s):
God, I’ve done so many shoots. I tell you what it was the most exciting actually. And the most memorable really? Because I don’t know if you know the male performer Mark Davis. No of yes. Yeah. It was absolute legend. Well, we were about to do the first Everett first internet live streaming and it was for cousin Stevie and Seymour, but, and there was, there was me, her short average, Mark Davis, Bridget Kirkoff, and a few others. So, you know, it’s the first one ever going out live streaming.

2 (15m 33s):
So we’re on the set and I’m like, you’re really eager. British girl, you know, Jeff I’m Tiki. I needed the guys to make me have an orgasm before actually working. Otherwise I probably would have gone crazy. So I’m doing this first of a shoe and to where, you know, if you haven’t worked with Seymour and cousin, Stevie, they are the most beautiful people that were producers and directors. And so I’m swapping partners as you do. And then I’m going up and down on Mark Davis. Right? So imagine a scene, you know, people are in pairs, I’m on Mark and I’m, fusting like anything like Concord.

2 (16m 16s):
Right? Anyway, I misplaced myself when I came down the next, yeah. The next thing we hear was pop. I like broken Mark Davis is cock the King of the industry And became quite a sensation.

4 (16m 37s):
Oh my God.

2 (16m 38s):
So many I can think of, you know, from signing divorce regarding Vegas to a couple of phase and people a day to park here with the world’s finest adults does too. Oh, just to everything, you know, it, it, there’s so many fun memories, but they’ve

4 (16m 54s):
Yeah. Feel free. Feel free to share them. We got lots of time. What else, what else, what else stands out?

2 (17m 4s):
What else stands out? Okay. So I’ve done my first ever anal scene broadcast for a mainstream channel filming a whole documentary on me didn’t even mean to do it. You know, it was just, it just happened. Right. And of course they put that out on television mainstream. Yeah. To 8 billion viewers in the UK. So that, that kind of, you know, I kind of notice still that I’ve been on the Jerry Springer show because I’ve done porn.

4 (17m 33s):

2 (17m 34s):
I got my sight to him on British television that went down exceptionally well, of course be in the how wonderfully open we are not in the UK. Yes. Oh. And I’ve been to Cannes film festival. I’ve interviewed on the red carpet can for the adult channel, I’ve stayed at the most phenomenal hotels around the world and shot different scenes. And I was just very lucky that I got taken to the us and they were absolutely wonderful to me. Cause I know that not everybody can manage the, the American industry. I did. I kind of call the English industry a very cottage like industry because it’s quite, and you kind of know everybody and you’re just, you’re doing things with the same people over and over.

2 (18m 21s):
And you’ve got to remember when I was in the industry. It’s when DVDs were still going out, the internet internet was still in his infamousy. So I was having sex with the same people time and time again. So go into America was massive.

5 (18m 35s):
How did you manage to get there and are the rumors true about America being much harder than the UK?

2 (18m 43s):
I was at a camp film Fest for when I met an agent called Mark Spiegler. And instead of later today I got on really well with Mark and he’s like, you need to come to America. And I said, okay, I’m up for it. I went back to the UK and I said to my British agent, and it wasn’t Jason at the time, it was enough for agents. And I said, I want to go to the U S nurse said, yeah, we can send you over there. And I said, well, I’m actually go with Mark Fiedler, which did didn’t go down too well with my, I can imagine, Oh, well the fact of me with the Russian mafia. So yeah. So you can imagine it was a little bit of a crazy time for me. And then yeah.

2 (19m 24s):
So I emailed Mark some pictures and I got over to the us and my first ever shot was with ed powers and on his radio show. And he’s got a winner. So remarkably easy. And then to be honest with you, do you think the U S was harder? No, I think it was way more professional. Yeah. And I think some people would find that harder where as I kind of find it easier, I don’t think the guys are any bigger. I don’t think the works any harder. In fact, you were in a studio with full on direction and there were boundaries and I really, I don’t think it was bigger.

2 (20m 6s):
I don’t think it was hard to us. In fact, I barely worked in the UK industry again after that, because I liked the way the Americans work. I worked five days a week. I made sure that I had two days off a week. I kind of found the shoots shorter and I don’t think they were far more glamorous. You know, you’ve got hair and makeup. You’ve got catering on set. Nobody was drinking or taking drugs. That was fully forbidded on set. And no, I, I was, could be longer. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I remember being on a short Sean Michael shoot one time and I was there for 18 hours.

2 (20m 50s):
I’d buy nine of them with waiting around. So God knows why I was caught so early. And then it was stop, start change had to change lighting or 18 hours later, I got off, but it wasn’t safe. And I think people don’t understand it. They get these 20 minute segments, some they’re DVD or TV or whatever. And normally within that 20 minutes, you’ve got five different positions, but to make that can take us all day, but people kind of, you seem to think it’s an easy job for good money. And they don’t actually understand the preparation that goes into it.

2 (21m 33s):
The hard work that goes into it and the self investment, because you’ve got to be in good shape, you’ve got to be healthy because there’s, there’s one thing that doesn’t work is if you are into drugs and drink, especially in my day, if you turn up to set with a hangover, they’re not interested if you turn up on set and you’re not with it, and you’re not a hundred percent on full that you won’t get used again, your reputation is everything. And I think people just have this whole belief about the industry being full of drugs and drink and offset. Maybe I don’t know what the other adults does done in their private lives. But for me, I was very, very into my work and about looking after myself.

3 (22m 20s):
Yeah. And I think that, well, first of all, when it comes to thinking a 20 minute scene takes 20 minutes, it’s like a feature film, you know, and it’s, it’s an hour and a half or two hours that takes more months.

2 (22m 36s):
I know people don’t get that mean. We’d go wait for five days to film some scenes. People might only sleep for 15 minutes and yeah. And people don’t understand that. I don’t know if it so much like that today. Not many big feature films are done these days, but in my day it was hard work.

3 (22m 58s):
Sure. Sure. Now, what is your, how do you feel about the public having that image of, of adult actors being druggies, alcoholics and all of the above?

2 (23m 14s):
Well, it’s very naive and I think that what’s happened is governments and media is censored them to reality. And people need to realize that they need to realize that they’re watching the news or read the newspapers. They’re reading other people’s thoughts on it and taking it as fact when in fact it’s not fact. Yeah. That’s that’s yes. What sense of ship is about censorship is about control and people getting them to believe that something’s good or bad. I mean, there’s never an in-between the government and the government and the media is either good or bad. And you know, people live, people have kind of been brainwashed with the fact that, you know, and I’m going to touch this subject ever since the word came back, child pornography, it’s kind of, everybody says the word pornography.

2 (24m 6s):
Right. So they think that the porn industry is related to child pornography when it actually couldn’t be further from the truth. Yeah. Now I w I worked beside them at places and I breached her. I’m a CA I’m a counselor for the industry. And we, I, I say to them, I don’t like it being called child pornography and nor do they, they call it child sex images or child abuse, sexual abuse, you know, because they don’t want the lines to be crossed. However, the media aren’t going to the industry, they just don’t. So,

3 (24m 38s):
Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, look at, look at that article that Christophe did in the New York times in December, the one on porn, the one, the children of porn hub, he actually did too.

2 (24m 50s):
Yeah. I mean, I do understand that PornHub on age verification, every production, okay. That belief in the people that actually upload the content or studios. Right. So they kind of needed some colors, you know, maybe, but, but in England it’s been no different for the whole, for the whole decade. And I’ll tell you why, because in England we have the BBFC okay. They kind of the ones that had to monitor every fitness when I on our 18 or 18 and they make the decisions. Now, if they want, for somebody who is under age, they were able to ask for the paperwork.

2 (25m 30s):
They’ve never once. Yeah. But they’ve never once done it ever. And they, and

3 (25m 36s):
That means the industry self-policing, which is good, which, which is what, which is what happens in the U S too.

2 (25m 42s):
Yeah. So that’s exactly what’s happened. But with PornHub, I just think that, you know, people thrive on negative news and I asked her to, and I’ve written for several newspapers and I, and I asked a major journalist once I said, so why can’t you just write something good about the industry? And that goes, good news. Doesn’t sell. If, if, if Joe blogs wakes up and read something about their neighbor doing a good deed, they’re like, so what if you tell them that Nate was a murderer, then they’d go and talk about it.

3 (26m 14s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you’re absolutely right. You’re absolutely right. Sensationalism has always sold. And that’s as, that’s a lot older than we are the unfortunate part of this whole PornHub thing is it reflects on the entire industry. It makes, it makes everybody say, well, porn is bad. You know,

2 (26m 34s):
Cohen’s been bad in the public view for decades, for centuries. You know, England has one of the strictest rules on pornography. You know, we can’t do any face, sit in, we can’t do any fish. Then we can’t do this. You know, all about chip. It does. Yeah. It drives me. Absolutely potty. I’ve sensitive is over here. It’s never had a positive view is it’s really hard because England,

3 (26m 60s):
It could be worse. You could be Japan.

2 (27m 3s):
Oh yeah. Do you know what? Do you know what? I must be doing a person in history. There’s printed, Japan’s red light district. And I find it rather, boy. Yeah. I find it really.

3 (27m 13s):
It didn’t do anything for me there actually the Ginza. Yeah. It didn’t do anything for me either.

2 (27m 18s):
Yeah. I mean, I love going to Bangkok. I go to a place called Nana Plaza and I’d go to a bar. I go to a bar called Spanky’s

3 (27m 27s):

2 (27m 29s):
One of my favorite places in the world. And I go there, I can go on my own. I’ll have a few drinks. I’ll tip of a pay for guys to have lap dances. And they’re like, what’s going on? But it’s only like two Pang 50 year ago. And then I get a little bit drunk and then I say, can I get off stage now? Love Spanky’s. But anyway, going back to like, you know, the industry of beer itself regulated it is, but there’s always going to be a bad Apple and there’s always going to be, and that’s partly why I do cancel them because you know, lots of people hide beyond the industry.

2 (28m 10s):
And then the industry gets blamed. Yep, indeed. And I say 95% of the industry is absolutely very professional and people could learn from it.

3 (28m 24s):
Yeah. So now how, tell me the whole story. You mentioned, you were known as the porn queen of the UK in the year 2000. Tell me the whole story on that.

2 (28m 35s):
Okay. Well, I got selected to represent England over in the U S in this lab in, you know, like the big glove right. Over it version. But before it got into adult, or we used to work in the probation industry, so obviously I had a bit of a name, I’d go, all the newspapers used to write about me and they find out what I was doing. And they were like, Oh my God. And then it got sent centralized. This got put all over the media, that I was a pawn queen of England now working for Playboy over in the U S so it was really massive, but I think what it was, I was so professional. I literally overnight became a sensation because the papers had written, I was an excavation officer and then documentaries will get a made on me.

2 (29m 19s):
I was invited onto every chat show. And I think what it was is I handled myself exceptionally well in the media so that when I was getting interviewed or was getting questioned, who I was appearing in public, I wasn’t, well, I wasn’t on drugs. And I was a sensible mother. Who’d had a previous job, which was a very strong position. So I think what happened is immediate don’t mind hoping somebody’s that stable. Yeah. And I think I came across very steep when the media took me on as a porn queen of England.

3 (29m 53s):
I love it. I love it. Good thing. They weren’t at that Playboy party in Vegas. Now, what was a video that wouldn’t have gone over well? So what was, what exactly was sex survivor 2000. And why was that your last act in the U S

2 (30m 12s):
It was the big brother, you know, like doing 30 scenes in a week was a little bit much, and also happened to deal with all the crap of somebody breaking the rules, a disrespect. And then I had to go to Vegas straight after and sign my autograph. I was just exhausted. I was exhausted. And also, you know, something happened to me in the industry that I can’t actually talk about it at the moment. Cause I’m it’s is invoked a court case, but it was, I just realize it, no matter how big you get and how hard you work, there’s somebody ready to take advantage of you and I never, and I think, and I think in the industry that a lot got swept under the carpet, if I’m quite honest with you, whereas ever something that happened to me that happened to others as well, because this person with a big name.

2 (31m 10s):

3 (31m 11s):
Oh, that guy. Okay. I think, I think, I think I figured it out. He’s he’s in our new section a lot. Oh God really? Oh my God.

2 (31m 22s):
Of the other European person in volts, you know?

3 (31m 24s):
Oh my, I was, so I was wondering what could be going on since, since 2000, but you’ve told being, so anyway, go ahead.

2 (31m 31s):
Yeah. You know, I’m not, I like to wait, probably discuss it or no, obviously at the moment. And you know, when I went to approach somebody about all that and people witnessed it, they’re like, Oh, that’s just how he is. And I’m like, hold on a second. This is just fucking half my mate language. This is just fucking happened to me.

3 (31m 50s):
This is an adult show. You can say, fuck, you can say, you can say, you can say all the words that church Carlin said, you can’t say on TV here.

2 (31m 58s):
Oh, fantastic.

3 (32m 1s):
No, that’s fucking fantastic.

2 (32m 4s):
Fucking fantastic. And so I think what happened is, you know, that happened to me, nobody listened. I went to Vegas and like I said, the work of an adult star, you know, on that level, it’s huge. The pressure is huge. And then people starting to forget that, you know, they bowled your whole private life into your work life. And then you just become this, this poor actress, you know, you don’t, people don’t respect you or understand that you actually a mom or anything like that. And it just, I think after that happened is like political brief face. When he’d done the survivor show went down to Las Vegas. Under my interview, came back, absolutely just wiped out.

2 (32m 45s):
And all I wanted was my kids and a family life. I just needed to. I mean, the only hug, you know, it wasn’t dating. I was one that didn’t date when I was in, I don’t actually, I didn’t think it was morally. Right. And yeah, I needed, I needed time out. I needed time out after that. And plus he, internet was coming in and I, and I wasn’t one to do webcamming. I believed that I had two children. I knew they were going to come of age where the internet would be a major part of their life. And I wanted to retire before they even had an engine of that happening so that, you know, not, not so I could avoid the situation, but mainly more so that I could control the situation.

3 (33m 32s):
Yeah. That’s smart. That’s smart. So you got out of the industry and after you’re retired, how did you feel and what did you do

2 (33m 41s):
Last driver? Tired? I realized no, there was no female agents in the world. So I, I started managing British stars and sending them over to the U S and making sure that they were professionally looked after that the other combination they had drivers and somebody started representing the top English female performance from the year 2002 till like 2004. And then there was, then there was an HIV outbreak in 2004 in the American industry. I pulled all the models out and that’s when I just said, do you know what? I’m not doing this anymore?

2 (34m 21s):
And I need a different life. And yeah. So know

3 (34m 26s):
You didn’t want to, you felt like you were putting him in danger and you didn’t want to do that.

2 (34m 30s):
Absolutely. And if there, if there is one thing that doesn’t happen and the professionalism and started sliding because the internet we will see was taking over. So budgets were getting lowered, stuff like that. And that what people don’t understand is there was no health and safety and, you know, unless models get self-insured, they have an accident on set or injured. That is, they were in cost. And I wasn’t willing to take the risk of having a, my conscience, any female, even if it would have been their own fault, captain HIV. And I just couldn’t, I have had to sleep at night.

3 (35m 8s):
Sure, sure understand. So when did you become a counselor for models worldwide in the adult, in the adult industry?

2 (35m 17s):
That was only fairly recently actually. I mean, I lived in Austin, you know, what I done after the time after retiring from managing models is I got trained by the family planning association, which used to be our sex education board. And they were really happy that I’d approached them. We kind of learned from one another and the next thing I want every channel being a sex experts on relationships shows. It’s great. So I got, I got quantified in, you know, online infidelity sex education, you know, for boys and girls separately, teenage pregnancies. And I worked on TV for a long time.

2 (35m 57s):
However, in the background, I was also getting qualified in fitness and managing a couple of gyms because I do, you know, I want it, I did it. I want a fake fame, hungry star. Sure. I didn’t mind talking to my knowledge, but I did. I didn’t need to be a major celebrity that, you know, I just couldn’t be bothered to be quite honest with you. And then I moved to Australia in two phase and alert 11 to have a break from anybody knowing me. And it was so refreshing because everybody had known me for a decade. And I didn’t even kind of know my own density for while because you’re, you’re this person that everybody has an opinion on and a view and a judgment.

2 (36m 41s):
So I went to Australia when nobody had thought of me. And for eight years I stayed in Australia managed companies. And when I was there, I, you know, the radio station started realizing my past and I went on a few shows and I said, what, you know, I’m qualifying to be a counselor and the seed got planted there. So I started studying and then I moved back to UK and yeah, I got asked if I would counsel the industry. So that was in England first board. And I felt like there were the fake HIV certificate being allowed to float around in the UK industry.

2 (37m 21s):
And I’m not going to lie that as you can imagine. So I teamed up with a PAC union in the U S with a lot of Evans and I’ve been a counselor for them ever since. So for like four years. So I actually, I’m going to be part of the union on the American board as well. So, you know, I look after, yeah. So looking after the American and the English industry, you can imagine, you know, it’s hard, but if I’m the only person who is qualified and have the experience of entering being in the industry and intern and transitioning out, that’s what models need. They don’t need to being canceled by somebody who still work support industry that defeats the object.

2 (38m 4s):
And with the English industry, they actually blocked me and my fellow counselor coworker is also a former actress. He retired, you know, about 15 years ago, Kelly Stafford. And she got qualified as a counselor as well. But because we, we caught them out that there were the fake HIV’s got going around and the girl had been attacked in a hotel room and nothing, nothing was done about it. And I just said, that’s not good enough. And so I was getting really frustrated in the UK that they were blocking just because they had an issue with me and this other counselor, they blocked us services from the industry.

2 (38m 47s):
And so we look after our own models now, to me, that’s not good enough. So I actually approached the met police, sexual violence unit. And I explained the situation. I said, look, I’m concerned that they don’t have an Avenue to report any instance. The industry is very close and he tried to keep it. In-house when I read stuff going on, I need to open a pathway and be an outreach so that they can speak. If they don’t want to go, let’s be honest with you. I’d experienced 20 years ago that I couldn’t go to a coffee shop after I was attacked. So it’s no different in the UK. Now, you know, of girls who were abused or taken advantage of onset, they, they, they don’t want to walk into a police station say, Hey, I’m a porn star.

2 (39m 30s):
I was just on set. And they don’t think I never gave him permission to, that’s fine. I’ve got to look at them and go that really know what that goes under. So what I done is I, I I’m teamed up as an outreach for the metropolitan police in the UK. And now it says any incidences with any other industry, they can come to me and I liaise and we meet out of uniform and I get them to chat to the ma to the head of the sexual violence unit. That’s awesome. And it’s taken, thank you. And it’s taken real seriously. And I work with a lot of other charities like open doors and they look up street sex workers, which has written dramatically during COVID because obviously people, people come, people are net visitors in their house.

2 (40m 20s):
So they’ve gone to street prostitution. I worked with outreach as you know, just, you know, help them with advice and stuff. And then, and then there’s other projects like survivors UK is by male sexual abuse. And I, I kind of work with whichever charities can gain from my knowledge and performance can get access to help, help for facilities.

3 (40m 44s):
Hmm. That’s wonderful. So, yeah, I bet you do. I like what you’re doing. So, so how did you manage to skip over from porn to the mainstream media?

2 (40m 59s):
I think my way was, was owning my past. Not letting anybody dictate to me about what I should or should not done. I made it perfectly clear unless they were paying my rent nature, keep their mouth shut. You know, they haven’t walked a mile in my shoes, let alone an inch actually. And I owned it and I laughed at myself and I said, do you know what? Yeah. Some people must’ve thought I was a right Slack or a slut or yes, there was things I would do differently, but I’ve always maintained. I have absolutely no regrets about my path. You know, now I’ve got more wisdom. I probably would’ve done a few things a little bit differently, but I owned it.

2 (41m 41s):
Never deny it. I mean, what you were in mainstream television, even being on one show, the media, know your past and what you’ve got to learn, is it any publicity is publicity. You’ve got take away the negative. You’ve got to stop worrying about what other people and online trolls say about you because they don’t contribute anything to my life. Right. So if they’re doing a negative, competent comment, then they’re investing in my life. So it kind of says a lot about them, not me. Yes. At least the stuff that I done I own.

2 (42m 22s):
And I take responsibility. And even if the press say former porn queen of England, which they still do 20 years later, I just, I laugh and I actually ring them up. Gum really still got like that one. They’re like, well, it sells. And I’m like, okay. So I’ve got this really, really friendly kind of a pool with the newspapers and journalists because I own, I pass and I have a laugh and they’ve got nothing on the tablet. Absolutely

6 (42m 54s):
Got nothing on me. I said, they

2 (42m 56s):
Made you. In fact, my public, my, my, my publicist. He actually worked at the sun as a major journalist for 20 odd years. My other friend used to run the sun for 25 years. I’m really good friends with the media. And the simple fact is, is because I laugh at myself and I already know that one day newspaper is tomorrow’s day chip paper. So it’s about not holding onto it, but I’m able to laugh at myself. And when I’m on TV, people realize that I’ve really educated. And I think it shocks them. I think what it is, people have this impression of an adult star.

2 (43m 39s):
So when they’ve got an adult star on their show, they are looking in inside yourself in their mind, in their programmed censored mind that I’m going to turn up with big fake tits, long blonde hair, extensions and stripper shoes. When in fact I’m five foot free, used to be for free. It must be getting old. And I normally wear tie-dye hairs and I’ve got shoulder length, dark hair, and I wear a minimum makeup. So I’m the complete opposite to what they imagined. And I think that is what interests people. And they’re like, Oh my God, you, you proved me. You prove to us it actually, our image of an adult story is completely not right.

2 (44m 22s):
Exactly. Exactly. And I think, yeah, I mean, you know, the figures as well is like I retired from porn 20 years ago. And so they can’t let, is, most media will like to chat to adult stars that are still in the industry to, but with me, I’m like, yeah, you can grab one of my old pictures if you want, as long as I know which one it is, I don’t mind. You know? And when I say, you know, 90% of my mainstream career has been absolutely wonderful. I had to Sue a newspaper some years ago because they actually got a picture of me and put it against a fake story. Say I had an ASCO antisocial behavior against it’s called an ask boat.

2 (45m 8s):
And they said that I’d been caught having like sex. And I had to criminal conviction. However, what made me so annoyed when I wouldn’t give a shit about the lions balance, your new, or is, you know, defer the truth. However, I was under contract to an, to a TV channel ITV, which one of our major channels. And they were back to drop me from two shows and I had to say to them, no, look it is crap. And I very fortunate. My life’s been very fortunate was actually kind of having a relationship with somebody that owned most of the local regional papers.

2 (45m 51s):
And he took me to the Queen’s lawyer

4 (45m 54s):
To the Creek,

2 (45m 57s):
Had a very interesting life. So I went to the Queens lawyers and I said, it’s it’s defamation and slander. It’s not true. And they haven’t even used my correct name. And they said, okay, well, you need to, we’re probably the wrong lawyers, but we’re going to put you in touch with a top entertainment lawyer who will do it on. I think it’s like, I think it’s called pro bono. Yeah. Contingency. So they put me in touch with the main lawyer that looks after all the mainstream performers, actresses and stuff like that. And he just basically rang up the newspaper and said, I’m on 800 pounds an hour. Is your cost not her. This is defamation.

2 (46m 39s):
Yeah. And the paper tried to say that I had a bad reputation because I’d done porn anyway. And I said, I don’t give a shit what reputation I got you liked? And you’ve put my picture right. There speaks more volume than words because image imagery does. Yes. And, and they tried to get out of it, but it was 800 pounds an hour. So we arranged a high court date in the high court with London and I was willing to take over it away. I don’t mind, you know, I, I’m not, I’m not at fault. And being an excavation officer, you can only imagine the willpower. So they settled an hour from the hearing and the high court of London settled out of cool.

2 (47m 22s):
Nice. And I have never Gretz about it. And I S everybody said, if you Sue a newspaper or, you know, come back to haunt you. No, it doesn’t. Do you know what all it does is let you know, never to be made a fall off.

3 (47m 36s):
Exactly. And you won’t, you won’t, you won’t hear and you won’t hear from them again. So there you go.

2 (47m 41s):
Never again. And the best thing is it’s like, you know, just because you’re a porn actress or actor or any kind of sex worker, it should not take away. The fact that what somebody does to you is legal. You are still under the same law. We are still under the same protection act as anybody that may be a police officer, or where can a bank, your career should definitely not have any influence on how you are treated.

3 (48m 13s):
Exactly. Just, just like that guy’s name we can’t talk about in the States.

2 (48m 19s):
Fuck you enough. I’ll give you another interview when all that’s filled up. So yeah.

3 (48m 23s):
Yeah. Oh, definitely. I want to hear that for sure. I want the exclusive on that. So, so what advice would you give to others in the end?

2 (48m 34s):
Okay. Right. Kind of got different advice for people going in in it and wanting to get out. If you’re going to go into industry, just be prepared that once you have the sex industry, it never goes away. Now, I don’t mean that by saying people won’t forget, you dumped porn, you yourself went forget you’ve been a sex worker. And once you’re able to turn your emotions on and off, which every sex worker has to do, it’s very hard to undo that skill. Yeah. And it can affect every ongoing relationship, even if it’s with your parents, your children or partner, because you’re able to put your emotions aside.

2 (49m 17s):
So you do have to be aware that when you go into the industry, you know, you’re going to learn a new set of skills. And, you know, they may not all be positive for people in the industry. What you have to remember is, you know, you know, you’re either got a short shelf life or you, or you do it for good. This is a career because it is a career, right. It can be however, learn about marketing because you’re up against millions of other people. And if you don’t have a business sense, you can’t run a business. And if you’re an adult star, you’re an enterprise, you’re a business. Yes.

2 (49m 57s):
So it’s about building yourself as a business, right? And you can’t run a company. If you cut corners, you can’t cut a company. If you’re going to act illegal, you can’t run a company. If you don’t have duty of care, health and safety insurance and stuff like that. So my bias is don’t consider, don’t even worry about what career you’re doing. You know, w you know, to you, you are self-employed yes. And therefore you should get yourself covered for every instance. And if you’re in the industry and you’re looking to get out, you have to understand that the transition period, you can’t just hop from one industry.

2 (50m 39s):
There is very emotionally challenging, and then go back into society because it can destroy you. There’s a lot trawlers or nine that will come for you and attack you. Now, Jess, like it’s school is a young age. I think emotions should be educated to youngsters, that we have different emotions and we have different reactions and that we’re responsible for our actions and reactions. And not that. And I think with the industry, that should be them reeducate. And if they haven’t learnt it already, I think what we do in APAC union is we have different seminars online. And we want to make sure that they know new skills, marketing, understand, not everybody is going to like you.

2 (51m 27s):
And that’s absolutely fine because it would be boring if everybody did true. And I 20 understand and imagine they are behind a keyboard. You’re not responsible for their actions. No matter what your actions yourself has been there, all they do is react to your action, but their action is putting you down. Does that make sense? Yeah. They’re just behind the keyboard with shit all out to do. So what they do is decide that their life isn’t that worthy and they want to invest best time in someone else. Sure. It’s like having free rent in somebody else’s mind. Don’t take it seriously because what somebody likes or what somebody speaks is how that person is inside.

2 (52m 12s):
And if they’re not a nice person, they’re not a nice person. What we have to do is have like a barrier up around not barrier. That’s probably the wrong word. I have a mirror pretend you’ve got a mirror in front of you and bunks that reflection back on to them. And then you’ll know what type of person they are. You got learned. Not don’t take things personally. Yeah. What do not overwork? Because people seem to think, you know, when you’re in the industry, yeah. You just want more work, more, work, more work. I want to do this. I want to do that. Well. Or you’re in a position of turning your emotions on and off, you kind of put your mental health to the background. Sure. However, our own bodies do suffer some form of post a tumor later.

2 (52m 60s):
And that, that doesn’t mean that’s from the industry in the job you done that could be reflected on you being able to turn your emotions on and off. And that can come back to the trauma later in life. And if they are looking to get at the industry, chat to somebody who has successfully moved on from the industry will know how you’re feeling. That’s a good idea.

3 (53m 26s):
That’s a real good idea. So I hear you’re writing a book as you certainly should. When is it coming out?

2 (53m 38s):
I, Oh my God. Look, dang. I’ve got a little bit lazy. The first one that will be coming out is an advice book. So, you know, there is a bunch I haven’t covered from sugar daddies to porn stance to bins, single mother to having disaster state. So my first book actually is going to be an advice book and I just share a bit of my life story and never not much, but my autobiography will be coming out later because it’ll probably coincide with the court case over in the U S

3 (54m 9s):
Ooh. Yeah. You got to wait for that to resolve first.

2 (54m 13s):
I’ve got to wait for that to resolve first and

3 (54m 16s):
Guarantee guaranteed bestseller,

2 (54m 19s):
Guaranteed bestseller. I know, right. It’s like, so I’m actually kind of quite enjoying a little bit of a, to life, get a decorate and done and doing kind of little mundane things at the moment, but I’ve got my own TV show starting in April in relationship show. So I’m really happy with that. And then my vice book, I want to get written. What do you know what it was meant to get written by March the 30th of however, being the work in the industry? I do. I’m very well connected. And as you know, I normally cover AVN and ex beers and a Prairie Lou awards. And I also interview at pleasure product events, you know, and they’re massive, you know, it’s one of the biggest industries and work well, I’m, I’m one of the fortunate ones in the world, especially from England, who’s traveling to Mexico in a week’s time.

2 (55m 15s):
So I’ll go now for one day’s work, but extending it for 10 days. I need some sunshine. I’ve been in England winter, and I’m cold and I need a holiday. And so this might refer to you probably isn’t going to happen when I finished by advice, but the new tax year starts in April. Right. So yeah, my book will get done by the end of April.

3 (55m 39s):
Okay. We’re going to hold. We’re going to hold you to that.

2 (55m 43s):
Yeah. And then we can have a little chat by that. Cause there’s like 20 different chapters of all different things.

3 (55m 47s):
Oh, I tell ya. Absolutely.

2 (55m 51s):
I’ve got, I reveal ODI, slight bits about myself in the book, but it would also Brit across my personality, but it does give the good and bad of different sex and relationship situations because like, you know, not everything can be good. Not everything can be bad need to have that balance.

3 (56m 10s):
Absolutely. Balance balance is always number one. Well, Leanne, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker tuck. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this. One of the book comes

1 (56m 24s):
Out. Absolutely. I’d love to. It’s been fantastic. Thank you. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, find new ways to monetize your website, such as sell advertising. If you’ve got a free site, like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site. If you have a tube, another way to make more money is to sell premium memberships, offer free users, one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality or longer videos or both. You can also make the site ad free for premium members. Start an affiliate program.

1 (57m 5s):
If you have a pay site, especially this is a great way to increase your quality traffic and get more joins with all sites, you can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell to your users. Pay sites can also sell, pay per view, where people have the option of paying by the scene for content that can’t get on the site. This is also another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee, sell them other products like toys and novelties market, your business, do things to improve your search engine results like SEO. There are some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our website list all of the benefits of your site in your marketing and how they affect the user.

1 (57m 54s):
And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firms such as, Oh, I don’t know, maybe adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time check services you pay for like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options. Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch. Plus got higher quality hosting in the process. Again, ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost-effectively along with this, make your profit and loss statement, show more profit.

1 (58m 37s):
That’s kind of a di guess, but increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does that, but make sure your P and L statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal expenses you’ve put in. This will cost you money when you sell it may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you. If you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement, remember every dollar in profit increases the value of your website as much as three or four times. This is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars, more on their sale just by adjusting the P and L statement to more accurately

3 (59m 22s):
Reflect actual business expenses, as opposed to a bunch of BS. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to adult industry writer, Ralph Greco,

0 (59m 37s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Lianne Young. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Harry Varwijk.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. Adult industry colleagues are rallying behind a GoFundMe campaign launched to assist Tim Lutz, the well-known community figure and co-founder of cyber socket with rising expenses. As he battles a recent diagnosis of brain cancer, the discovery and removal of a tumor in his brain has just become part of his journey.

1 (1m 18s):
And he refuses to succumb to fear notes. The intro from the GoFundMe campaign page for the past 30 years of his life, Tim has been consciously implementing a mindset to elevate his frequency and learn how to enjoy a better quality of life. He’s come to realize that when he exists in a pure state of love, he serves a purpose. His purpose to be love gives him the strong will to live a long, healthy and joyful life Tim’s plan is to not only survive, but to also thrive. Although Lutz has health insurance is out of pocket medical costs and other expenses are rapidly rising. It has always been easier for me to give and difficult for me to ask for help.

1 (2m 0s):
Thank you. In advanced all of my angels for your donations. He said, I am humbled and grateful for all of you and appreciate your consideration. Compassion, heartfelt kindness, and loving hearts, cyber socket, the pioneering LGBTQ publisher let’s co-founded with Morgan summer celebrates its 25th anniversary. Next January donate to his GoFundMe campaign by searching for Tim Lutz that’s L U T Z on fund me expert as award-winning performer, entrepreneur and pervert.com. Owner Lance Hart has launched his latest venture. Get me into porn.com with a stated aim to teach and train the next generation of performers.

1 (2m 46s):
How to navigate the wild wild world of adult. The new site utilizes the combined experience of performers, directors and producers. Candlebox Mickey Mohd, Todd Moore, Aiden, and heart among others member se this include video interviews and anonymous messaging system, online tutorials and mentorship by Regal and longstanding personalities in the adult industry said heart. I’m so excited to get this project launched and out into the world. He said during the pandemic, we’ve seen a huge influx of self-produced and amateur performers take up sex work to help make ends meet, and it found how extremely lucrative it can be.

1 (3m 29s):
Naturally many are ready to take the next step into professional productions, and we want to educate them on how to do it safely properly, and show them how to make their experience as positive as possible. He noted weekly updates are planned and affiliate program offers performers cam and clip sites, a $25 payout for referrals. Visit get me into porn.com and email Lance at perv out that’s P E R V O U t.com. For more details, the free speech coalition inspire program will host a webinar on tax preparation for adult industry workers tomorrow at 11:00 AM. Pacific time led by FSC industry relations advocate, Lotus lane with bookkeeper, Jesse Hornby tax preparer, Lauren foo Magali and adult industry laborers and artists association, founder, Mary Moody.

1 (4m 24s):
In addition to discussing and answering questions on tax filing issues, the group will speak to how performers can take advantage of forgivable loans from the PPP loan program. A rep explained and noted Fumagalli is a veteran performer and IRS enrolled agent. With 16 years of tax experience lane described the 2020 as a highly unusual financial year. For many performers, we’ve been getting so many questions online. We decided to put together an expert panel to discuss last minute filing issues for 2020, as well as PPP loans and strategies for reducing your tax burden in the year to come sex work is real work lane said, adult industry workers deserve the same resources and guidance as those who run mainstream businesses and the same support from the government.

1 (5m 14s):
This panel will help our workers understand how to access COVID support, better protect their businesses and legally reduce their tax burden. Visit free speech coalition.com for more detail, and to register. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker adult site broker is proud to offer for sale and adult pay site review platform. The site offers top discounts to the hottest networks and adult entertainment. In addition, they offer full length scenes to these sites. So surfers can sample the content. Also the scenes serve to keep the visitors engaged longer on the site. Then the traditional review site, they offer outstanding prices to adult networks on behalf of their visitors.

1 (5m 60s):
The surfers on the site will be hard pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time, Brazzers bang bros, and just about every other top adult network in site, they’ve been growing their email lists since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000 in the past six months, their unsubscribed rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well. This has boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding pay site review platform for only 956,000 us dollars.

1 (6m 47s):
Now time for this week’s interview,

2 (6m 50s):
My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Harry VAR. Weich Harry, thanks for being with us today and adult site broker talk,

3 (6m 58s):
Thank you for having me here. So mother

2 (7m 1s):
Now, now Harry’s been in the business since 2000 and in live cam, since their inception, Harry wears many hats. He’s alive cam webmaster for the night prowl studio network. He maintains websites for his company’s in-house models through an affiliate marketing program. He does live cam consultancy for cherry.tv. He performs content guarding of tube sites and doing DMC tasks. He’s part of the AWS summit team and he does media bias, Lincoln traffic traits, and I’m getting tired here and he maintained sponsor relationships of ADW media. So I guess I should ask you Harry, what you do in your free time

3 (7m 42s):
Playing games. That’s a way to unwind.

2 (7m 47s):
There you go. Okay. Now let’s start with one of your projects, cherry TV. Now this is one of the newer campsites out there. Why don’t you tell me more about this platform and how it’s different from some of its competitors?

3 (8m 2s):
Well, the platform itself is, is not debt different from competitors. So it is a freemium platform, which means that models have this other way of broadcasting instead of being on a premium website. The difference here, however, is that the management behind cherry TV is based, based and build up with marketing experts from industry mainstream and adults. They have a combined experience of more of more than 20 years, which is, which is pretty, pretty much needed to upset the Lifecare markets, because this is what charity view is going to do. They are going to upset the life care markets, meaning the bigger premium science house have always done.

3 (8m 52s):
They’re very good, but it is time it time for a little bit of change. And especially because the game-ification part of the web site adds a new layer to the whole webcam experience itself rewards the spenders and it rewards the models. The reward system is also different than other webcam science, meaning even if a model is online and she has contributed her time to the website, but she did not earn any revenue. She will still receive a reward. She will still be compensated for her time.

2 (9m 34s):
That’s fantastic from a model standpoint.

3 (9m 37s):
Absolutely. And I think a Bartel needs to focus on models and her needs and especially regarding payouts daily payouts is, is, is just one of the things which separates them from the big box campsites, right? One pressure on a button and, and, and 20 minutes later you have your money too. That’s great. Yes, it is. It is.

2 (10m 5s):
That brings, that brings daily payouts to a new level.

3 (10m 10s):
Yes. And I think it’s, it matches a little bit the situation off the mouth. I mean, sometimes they are four or five days of life and not making money and still waiting for the periodic payouts. Then why not hit the bail button on the moment you go on a holiday. So you have your cash always with you. Nice, nice.

2 (10m 34s):
Now it seems there’s a new campsite. Every time I turn around, what’s the state of the live cam market now.

3 (10m 43s):
Okay, well, we are still maturing. Meaning webcam sites are still trying to serve and the audience and the models at the same time. I mean, let’s say it like this. We, we have the goal to give pleasure on, on a cam site and measures is just a shortened of sensation. What we want to attribute is to have a happiness feeling. That’s a web web site has a relation with the webcam model that she feels secure. That is really important to have.

3 (11m 24s):
And I do agree with you every time you work, them sites come up, but they disappear also just as, just as fast people are overestimating the markets, definitely they think, wow, I put up a domain, I put up a script and boom, the money rolls in. This is just not how it works. You practice always. Absolutely.

2 (11m 48s):
Now do you think there’s still an opportunity for new people to come in and start a live cam site and make money?

3 (11m 56s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think this year, new, new webcam sites will come up too, that there are always people who she enough opportunity and there is always a rainbow with a pot of gold on yet, but you just have to go for it. The marketing responsibility, the energy that comes in to make a brand run online. It’s tremendous. I mean, I’m a little bit of webcams side needs to understand that in the first two years, they will hardly make any profit at all. All the money will go back into development, into maintenance staff people.

3 (12m 36s):
So I encourage people always to start new projects. But I do know that if I don’t see these qualifications in them, which good websites have that I will see them disappear at the end of the year, I got used to that. We have seen at least 15 people come and 15 people go in in the last five years alone.

2 (12m 59s):
Now starting a new webcam site, if you want to do it right, obviously it takes a ton of money. If you were starting in the business fresh today, where would you invest your money?

3 (13m 13s):
I would invest my money in making relations with cam models that already have a strong representation online. And I would probably try to invest money in having them on my portal to, to get some first attention. I would invest my money in their social media because they already have a tremendous amount of clients that have trust in them. And I will do my best to keep those models on my sites and, and try to have them generate traffic.

2 (13m 43s):
Now you do affiliate marketing for models. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. You were saying

3 (13m 51s):
No, no, no problem. I just wanted to say that. It sounds easier as that it really is. Of course.

2 (13m 57s):
Okay. Now will you cut out for a second? Sorry. You do affiliate marketing for models. How exactly does that work?

3 (14m 7s):
Okay, well, this is a really wide topic. I will give you a small example is a model

2 (14m 16s):
We got, we got time. Go for it. Okay.

3 (14m 18s):
If, if the model works individual from home, her first contact with the sponsor is cited as a model. Then when she goes into her member promo tools, you will also find options to hire her payouts by sending traffic directly to her room through, through, and the campaign link here is where it becomes interesting because many models missed the opportunity to sign up as an monster on the website. They are working as a model so they can actually add an extra layer of income, which is around 25, 30% to the general revenue damn making gift at clients.

3 (15m 5s):
As long as they become an affiliate, I can set up and own that site. They can make a promo call tool. They can have a chat widget with just Dem inside, put on their own websites under the affiliate code. So they build up an excellent defense, which 90% of the models are missing on this moment right now. So what I’m doing is I’m telling the models, Hey, look, here’s where your opportunities are. Here’s where you can sign up as a webmaster. Here is where you can download a WordPress application. And here is a module hosts with a $10 package a month to get you independent.

3 (15m 47s):
And then they actually try it out. And they find out that besides selling their own webcam that time they can also put for party product products on their own website and make income with other programs and shallowly. They are not only a webcam model, but they are also webmaster of their own sites. So it it’s, it’s just about adding opportunities to, to, to their account and taking profits from the fact that they already have spending clients. And if, if a model decides to be on a holiday for her clients can still go to her website, try some other products or spend time with another girl, but the model will still be rewarded for it.

3 (16m 35s):
So she can allow her men, her models, or their members to cheat with other models. And she gets an income from it. How, how widely is this done in the industry? Not very widely it’s here is where on the communities on the chem communities here is where it stagnates, meaning a contact between a model and a contact between the webmaster is being seen as a competitive fit. And I have no idea why, and I don’t know why they keep keeping this feeling up, but model that webmasters are taking that time, that we only want to work together with them.

3 (17m 16s):
So we can have some free sessions in their group, which is completely absurd when we are not into a context like this, we just want to put out traffic on a webcam model that knows how to generate it. So when I go into the cam community in the cam communities, and, and I’m actually speaking with a model that has, has done a lot of work, it has experienced, then I will propose an extra, additional income to her website. And we’ve her experience-based. She gets the point. She understands, Oh, I can also become a web master of my own product.

3 (18m 1s):
And it’s it’s, it has to do with the experience and how people she webmasters and his industry, and 80 to 90% sees us as competition. And they make comments like, okay, you sent us traffic, but you take a part of our income. Why you do that? And then we have to tell them, yeah, but this is what the site emphasizes. While you work on that, they have their own traffic. Where do you think your traffic comes from? It comes from the webmasters. Okay. I agree. Some campsites have their own in-house marketing department for all in-house traffic, so they don’t have to pay webmasters for it. But a majority of the traffic still comes from the affiliates.

2 (18m 44s):
That’s awesome. That’s something I had never heard before. Now. Now content piracy is a big issue today. How much of your time is spent on that area of your business? And how’s it going

3 (18m 59s):
Way too much? The DCMA tasks are taking way too much time, especially because we have to communicate with a market that hides behind a wall, a lot of Russian communication, which goes into nothing. I can say that 60% of the videos are being removed successfully within four weeks. And I think at least 40 options. And I’m pretty sharp on this number around 40% ignores my request and they will play it out as, as, as long as they can.

3 (19m 40s):
Of course, I have to go to channels like Google and hosting, and I have to come up with documentation stamps and all that stuff. It takes way too much time. And it’s a nice, not sure position for this too. I mean, but sometimes these services are hand in hand with the scamming webmasters, meaning they steal on the other sides and they go into a forum and offer that removal. Sure. There’s still another personality. So you are dealing with the fee and you are dealing with the person who’s who, who claims to clean up the mess, defeat me. And in the meantime, you’re all talking to one in the same person.

3 (20m 21s):
So it’s a, it’s, it’s a, it’s a portion of a work that I rather not have comes with. A lot of stress comes with emotions. I could go without it to be almost. Yeah.

2 (20m 34s):
Yeah. That’s gotta be really frustrating. Especially if it’s one in the same person.

3 (20m 40s):
Yes, yes, absolutely. The research that goes into it and the energy and efforts that you have to do, they are not, and they don’t give you a shit affectional feeling at all.

2 (20m 51s):
When freemium websites popped up, how much panic did you feel considering the sites you owned were

3 (20m 59s):
Premium? I can tell you honestly, when the first premium side popped up, I was just being happy with, with my lifetime revenue spenders on the premium science on the moment I saw chatter beds coming up, my world literally turned upside down. I, I had problems accepting them, meaning it took me at least one and a half till two years before I decided to really examine the science and to check the affiliate program. But in the beginning I was not happy with it. I knew that it will crash a few of my lifetime, spend this into nothing, which obviously it did.

3 (21m 44s):
And I was forced to go along with it, but it took me almost two years mentally before I started to accept that this is how it was, was not a nice feeling. Now, when I look back, I’m pretty extreme, happy that freemium has come up. It’s it’s it has given results and situations, which I didn’t foresee that would happen. And I’m really happy. It did.

2 (22m 15s):
It’s obviously a tried and true format.

3 (22m 19s):
Absolutely. Yes. Every portal has his own group of models. You have freemium models and you have premium models. Freemium models are mostly younger, have more creativity, exploit the industry more in their own benefits and premium is really one-on-one. So it’s pretty exclusive. It’s like a girlfriend experience. You can not put more creativity in there. It’s like a talk with a shrink. Now

2 (22m 51s):
They’re both freemium and premium cam sites, which ones are doing better.

3 (22m 57s):
You mean which one is in my eyes? The best freemium website?

2 (23m 1s):
No, between just the model of freemium and the model of premium, which ones do you think are doing better? And why is that? And of course you can tell me who you think the best star of, of each, each model.

3 (23m 18s):
Well, let’s, let’s stay on this example of charter badge because that science has earned their position in the market. Even if it brought me some competitive thinking in the beginning, I think they have improved the situation for models. I am not comparing chanter bank with anything else. So D they are on top for me, for the freemiums and the other sites. I really give much attention for wow. Our top priority. Why? Because since 2008, they, they have intensified a diminishment towards models and, and webmasters by having forums online for just us, by communicating with us a lot, asking feedback, coming with customized promo tools, coming with upgrades, I would say life just meaning chapter Bay are the two top sites and it’s regarding freemium and premium.

3 (24m 22s):
That will be that, that will be not much of a change in, in this year.

2 (24m 28s):
Well, what do you think? Which, which of the two models do you think is better though?

3 (24m 33s):
And, and on, on what kind of a model, what kind of performer you are? I, I would say free freemium is a good start for people who are new in this industry. So they can develop an identity. They, if they, they can find a role in which they, they, they prefer best on a line. And I, I, I, I do think that people going to premium do best when they have experienced from the freemium. This is regarding communication, how to talk to a client, how, how to connect with him on an emotional level, how to entice them to provoke and to flirt.

3 (25m 16s):
This is, this is something that is on premium, more on the focus and on freemium. It is more a group show. It’s it’s it’s you, you, you chip in together with, with other guys to keep the show going and to keep her having this loss in, in, in her private areas. It’s, it’s, it’s a different kind of sensation premium service I’ve seen in service are, are, are trying to chase premium is exclusive. One-on-one, it’s, it’s more personal than, than freemium. So it’s these two differences also splits up the models.

3 (25m 59s):
You have models who are open to, to be exclusive with, with, with one person to open themselves up and to be entertaining and, and, and enticing on freemium. There is not much of the intelligence needed to, to keep this person in the room. It’s if one leaves your chat room, two, others will come in. So it’s it’s about what, what does Sherver is, is, is trying to search for exclusivity or just a quick Wang. And this is where freemium and premium are different from each other. It’s the exclusive freedom.

2 (26m 39s):
If you were starting a cam site today, which one would you pick and why?

3 (26m 46s):
Yeah. Which business model I would pick, I would pick the freemium because I will reach a wide audience regarding performance and service. And I will definitely stay away from premium because it’s, it’s expensive to two brands. It comes with a different business model. I would be more shaved to go for a Freeman side. Yeah. Sorry. I want to say, especially because the big premium players already taken that place, they already won the trust of a large group of spenders.

3 (27m 31s):
And they will keep that trust for, for years to come. So to come up with a premium side right away, and to declare war and competition, that’s not going to help. I will definitely go for the freedom to start off with.

2 (27m 44s):
Now, when you found out that models had no idea that most traffic comes from webmasters, how did you feel? And what did you do about it?

3 (27m 55s):
To be honest in the beginning, it was a little bit frustrated because as a webmaster, you search continuously for acknowledgement of your position here in the market, and you just want to be seen, or you just want to be a part of success. So when a life has made client, Hey, we are so big EDI. We, we webmasters of five, just me and the, we want to take some credit for, for, for that too. Right. We want to say, Hey, it was all in a joint joint efforts to make it big. Now you need to repeat the question. Can the girls, I was a little bit distressed by your question.

2 (28m 41s):
Okay. So when you, okay, will you, when you found out models had no idea that most traffic came from webmasters, how did you feel? And then what did you do about it?

3 (28m 53s):
Yeah. Okay. So the part, what do we do about it? We are still trying to install a short of an idea of what a landmark.

2 (29m 4s):
Okay. Like, so, so when you talked earlier about going on the boards and things like that,

3 (29m 10s):
You speak to individual person, they all have their opinions and they all think different about it. What I do know this, I can community foremost, together, they can share experiences. They can share problems, they have or solutions, but to communicate between demand and supply. And that is not being a stable established on communities. It is however, a great place for a woman to talk with another woman and, and share some experiences on that they have on different websites. There is no such thing as them trying to market themselves more and, and communicating towards webmaster seems that there is still an invisible wall between two people.

4 (29m 58s):
Do you react to charge backs and drops in sales that are on

3 (30m 2s):
Unexpected? Well, Louisa, I can be very honest. A chargeback feels like somebody is kicking me so hard in the balls and crying for the day. Stucco or chargeback is, is a personal thing. It’s you start to doubt your models, the quality you start to think. Did I do something wrong in the click flow on my sites? Did I gave him the feeling he had to spend? Was he manipulated a chargeback, comes with a tremendous amount of emotions during the years. Of course it becomes part of the game, but it still feels incredibly professional.

3 (30m 46s):
And yes, I understand stair damage fraud online. And mostly when I requested sites to investigate the charge back into give me an exact reason, I will be happy when it says one of those stolen cards, then I’m like, okay, cool. That’s that’s nice. The guy got this money back. The bank did the responsible thing. This is how the industry should work. I, if it, if, if it comes like, yeah, he was manipulated by a model, he was cheated. I feel personally bad because I did brought him to do website. I did told him he would have a great time with this model and still it didn’t work, worked out.

3 (31m 28s):
So it charged back comes, comes in with incredibly messy emotions. And it takes a few days before those emotions are dying off. And I’m back to my old shelf. Again, my biggest charge back was $19,000. And my small charge back was around $7. But the warm of $19,000 happened seven years ago, woke up on a Sunday morning and I was $90,000 in the red. That was an incredibly hard thing. It took me around a half a year to get that account back to zero. Yeah.

4 (32m 6s):
Yeah. I can only imagine. How about other drops in sales? How do you respond to those? Well,

3 (32m 14s):
When you read statistics and when,

4 (32m 18s):
When you read numbers,

3 (32m 20s):
You start to understand where it comes from, where is it going wrong? What part of the website is, is, is, is doing bad check and faces to, to other solutions, but to find out where the drop comes from, that is already the biggest reward, fixing it. That is something that it’s not a problem. It will take some time, but to know where it comes from, we just statistics in such a way that you know, where it is leaking, that you know, where things are down. That means that you have a good oversight. And that is a party, the biggest desk here, reading the numbers and try to convert them to text and try to find out where it comes from.

3 (33m 5s):
Find a problem you can fix it. Sure.

2 (33m 9s):
That goes with anything, by the way, getting back to chargebacks in the, in the chargeback industry, when someone charges back for something that they actually consumed, they use the term friendly fraud. I what’s, what’s friendly. What’s friendly about that.

3 (33m 29s):
There is nothing friendly about that through failure, totally agreeing with you. As soon as the word chargeback comes up, all the words associated to it are mostly negative, unless it was a stolen card and the guy got his money returns. Then we get the responsible thing as, as, as, as an industry. But for the rest, there is nothing friendly about the chargeback. Nothing

2 (33m 53s):
Indeed. Now, can you explain the term? And it’s used a lot girlfriend experience, it’s a little bit different on cams than it does out here in Thailand and R and R people kind of chasing the dragon with love online.

3 (34m 10s):
Yes. So we have this girlfriend experience. It’s a white concept. I mean, it can go into every direction. I will see a girl and think, Hey, she looks like my first girlfriends. You go into the room and you have a nice conversation and, and you’ll get these emotions back. And when you start liking a person, just because she talks nicely or she, or how, the way she thinks that’s already a connection. If I am with a like-minded model communicating, she doesn’t have to go naked for me to still have that experience that I’m happy. And of course, between pleasure and happiness, there is a big thing.

3 (34m 54s):
Now, a girlfriend experience is, is category on their happiness pleasure to go away after five, 10 minutes, happiness, happiness, emotion, just girlfriend experience with a model. Then I definitely want to talk a little bit more refer, and this might be two, three times a week, and maybe I develop an emotion. And I think, you know what? I don’t feel bad spending $200 a month on an exclusive experience begins with the same $200 on, on dinners. We, with an offline girl, the girlfriend experiences is, is it a term I use for chats that are longer than 40 minutes and where a client is at at least two or three times a week checks in we the model, just to say a friendly word or, or, or have a little talk and doing a member session, maybe in the weekends or on the Sunday evening, but longer.

3 (35m 52s):
And with more quality, so more texts, more and more exchange of emotions. They’re actually interested in each other. They’re asking for family, Hey, how’s your family doing? What are you doing for work? It all creates these little lines that she’s throwing to him, which she can use the next time again, to continue that bill from experience. When he comes in next week, she was, how was the meeting? Did your boss gave you the compliment that you were shooting for? Did you finish the project? As soon as this member has the idea, Hey, she’s actually thinking about me. That is already a girlfriend experience by being taken serious.

3 (36m 36s):
You don’t have to be in one room with dispersion to still have this emotion. That’s why I used that girlfriend experience term a lot. I like it. It’s it’s it sounds friendlier. And it’s it’s it has a social. Yeah. You will hear me use that word until the end of time. Because in the end, we shell a little bit of proportionality the shell time and all we are not at the red light district in Amsterdam. I mean, Dara is very, now you stand in front of a window, you go in, you negotiate 10 minutes later, you are out. That is, that is exactly what, what we don’t want to have online.

3 (37m 17s):
So yes, of course we have to tell to a model that every client is a human being and should be considered as well and taken serious,

1 (37m 27s):
Certainly the best way for people to conduct themselves in any space. And Cam’s included. Well, Harry, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your website design. Up-to-date do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success.

1 (38m 10s):
If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’ll end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes.

1 (38m 51s):
People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor. You have to competitors clearly doing everything better. Again, emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’ll lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They’ll click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for. If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Leanne young

0 (39m 38s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Harry Varwijk. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Max Bergeson.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.
First of all today, let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. The free speech coalition Europe has released a petition and a statement calling on the European commission to protect the rights of sexuality professionals, artists, and educators, while drafting the EUS new digital services act. The FSC Europe statement includes these recommended 10 steps.

1 (1m 18s):
Be added to the digital services act platforms need to put in place anti-discrimination policies and train their content moderators to avoid discrimination on the base of gender sexual orientation, race or profession platforms must provide the reason to the user. When a post is deleted or an account is restricted or deleted platforms must allow for the user to request a revision of a content moderators decision platforms must ensure moderation actions take place in the user’s location. Decision-making on notices of reported content. Shouldn’t be handled by automated software.

1 (1m 60s):
As these have proven to delete content indiscriminately. The notice of content is described in article 14.2 of the DSA should not immediately hold a platform liable for the content since such liability will entice platforms to delete content indiscriminately after report to avoid liability, which enables organized hate groups to mass report and take down users platforms must provide for a department within the company for complaints regarding discrimination or censorship platforms must provide a means to indicate whether you’re over the age of 18, as well as providing a means for adults to hide their profiles and content from children.

1 (2m 43s):
Platforms must not reduce the features available to those who Mark themselves as adult or adult oriented platforms must set clear, consistent, and transparent guidelines about what content is acceptable. However, these guidelines can not outright ban users focused on adult themes platforms cannot outright ban content intended for adult audiences, unless platform is specifically targeted to children. As all the empire has joined over 50 adult businesses and organizations and committing funds and resources to pineapple support. We’re excited to join on as a sponsor adult empires, Collin Allerton said Leah and her team are seeing a growing need for their essential services.

1 (3m 29s):
We’re glad to help join this worthy cause I encourage other adult business owners to contribute as well. Tenant express gratitude for the sponsorship. We’re extremely grateful for the generous contributions from adult empire to help our organization expand, reach across the world. She said their support yeah. Helps us provide stigma free therapy to adult performers who are struggling. I’m humbled to be part of an industry that’s standing together to support its workers when they need it. The most, the group founded in 2018 has so far connected over 2000 adult performers and industry members to mental health services, including free and low cost therapy, counseling and emotional support visit pineapple support.org or follow the group on Twitter.

1 (4m 16s):
Adult site broker is a proud sponsor of pineapple support. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we are proud to list for sale. A network of two mainstream flirt chats sites. The websites are currently run on someone else’s system. Unfortunately, that platform will go out of business soon because of this, the owner decided to sell the websites at a very reasonable price. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, their lens and New Zealand, both are mainstream flirt, chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis. They have a loyal customer base of over 27,000 real members with many customers still active from 2017.

1 (5m 1s):
Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 50 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with them, very low overhead, and a proven ROI of 900% on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing. These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep for the sites requires very little time. And most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 strong member database. Many great markets are yet on tap for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA.

1 (5m 41s):
Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites now for only 484,000 euros. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side broker is max Bergeron of crack revenue. Max, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

2 (6m 5s):
Hi, Bruce. Pleasure to be here.

1 (6m 7s):
Nice to have you max. Now with over 10 years of experience in technology, customer service and web marketing, max has achieved tremendous success as crack revenues network director working for one of the world’s top CPA networks. He uses his strong technical organizational and leadership skills to lead his team and the network into the next phase of affiliate marketing. Grech revenue is an international and industry leading CPA network specializing in web traffic monetization and online marketing solutions with 250 million plus on affiliate commissions that have been paid out and 35,000 plus affiliates, they’re driven by performance and results as they lead the next phase of affiliate marketing, thanks to a skilled team of professionals.

1 (6m 56s):
They aim to provide a unique experience to their affiliate and advertiser networks. Grech revenue is proud to be recognized as an industry leader across the globe, max, you launched the mad March contest, and I know this is going to be coming up like at the very end of March. What’s the contest. Exactly.

2 (7m 15s):
Yes. So mine, March contest is actually correct. Caribbean use yearly event, obviously referring to the famous basketball tournament that’s happening like every year in the NCAA this year, athletes can participate for a chance to win one of four bundles that will actually include a basketball Jersey. I ran the game ball and a pair of customized sneakers athletes simply have to reach a minimum of a hundred payout in March to be headed to the final dress. So pretty simple, if you want to participate, just log into your platform and then to the, to the contest.

2 (7m 57s):

1 (7m 58s):
How, how often do you guys do promotions like that?

2 (8m 2s):
The man much contest is actually a promotion. We like to run every year. I think we’ve been doing it for athletes four years in a row. Now we also hold a major contest like every December where athletes can unlock cash bonuses by beating their previous month commissions. I’d say we like to have these recurring events throughout the year to create that, that hype knowing when the next promotions will, will be released. It’s like the black Friday, everybody knows it’s in November and we’re all waiting to see what the good deals will be. Yeah. So yeah, we hiked to, to have these concerts, like pretty much like every would be time of the year.

2 (8m 45s):

1 (8m 46s):
Kind of, what kind of response do you see with these contests and how do they impact your business? Like

2 (8m 56s):
Usually the, the, the responses is pretty good. I think that we, like every week, every year we try to be as much original as we, as we can be. So we’re not like keeping these, these old concepts, like over and over and for us, like promotions are definitely there to reward athletes first. So to tank everyone for, for working with us. And yeah, we also like to build these, these promotion with some kind of a challenge element to it. I think we all know it, like the athlete marketing space is a competitive one and athletes like prove what they, what they can do.

2 (9m 37s):
So our promotions are all sort of pretext to give affiliates an extra challenge and like to trigger there in the reframe for proving, they can be the best at what they do.

3 (9m 48s):
Okay. Okay. That makes sense. And do you find that affiliates are particularly competitive?

2 (9m 54s):
Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely. We, we had this, we had this new system like two or three years ago, which is actually a hen house ranking, a leaderboard system for affiliates. So in our platform, if you’re an athlete with us, you’re, you’re given actually earn rank and a status within these, this ranking, you can access like different perks, goodies bonuses, and yet the, the, the ranking system at retribution is definitely one of the element that, that athletes loved the most.

3 (10m 36s):
Yeah. It kind of sounds like the competitive nature. It almost sounds like a lot of these people took part in sports at one point in their lives and I’m sure, you know, a lot of them personally being in the position you are, is that kind of the case?

2 (10m 52s):
Oh yeah, definitely. And I think that one point in common that all I feel it’s have, or, or even if they don’t know it is that like entrepreneurship flame inside them to be their own boss. And so, yeah, I think it, it makes sense.

3 (11m 10s):
Well, I mean, why else would you be an affiliate unless you wanted to do your own thing, right? Correct. Okay. Were you an affiliate at one time by the way now?

2 (11m 21s):
No. I actually discovered athlete marketing through a true crack when I first joined the company. So it was like totally new for me.

3 (11m 31s):
Tell me, tell me the story of when you first joined crack. How did you find out about ’em and how did you end up getting your first position there?

2 (11m 40s):
Yeah, so actually I think it’s the most common like situation, like knowing someone at the company. One of my best friend in the, in the company is actually Arno, which I know a lot of people will we’ll know we’ll know about. So yeah, I was actually working at Apple retail back then. So like different background working as a manager there and yeah. Bored from yeah, totally, totally. And yeah, just got bored of like doing the same thing, like over and over Arno was actually like already working for, for cracking.

2 (12m 24s):
Yeah. We just had a, like a beer one time and he told me like, Hey, we’re looking for someone. It was actually a dating position back then. And yeah, just made my way to the, to the interview and, and ended up with crack started as an athlete manager. And yeah, it’s been six years now. Just like grew my way up to the, to the management position.

3 (12m 50s):
Yeah. You’ve, you’ve really climbed the ladder. Haven’t you?

2 (12m 53s):
Yeah. I’ve tried. I’m working hard actually. So, so yeah, I’ve been like, like I said, started as an eye foot manager transferred to, to a position of team leader and yeah, I think I’ve been, I’ve been in the manager position for five years now. Yeah. So yeah, in one year I try to, I kind of like grew my way up.

3 (13m 17s):
That’s awesome. You better tell Nick to watch out now, what does the follow the whale tagline mean?

2 (13m 26s):
Nice. The full of the whale tagline is actually a reference to how correct review was started back in 2010. And yet only a few people know that, that our CEO, Nick started as actually as a NetFlow yet. And the CPA platform was actually born from his own need to gather, you know, many trade tracking data all at the same place. And this actually became an opportunity to other offer affiliates that kind of like same one-stop shop for their tracking and to share with them the best offer. We were like running ourselves.

2 (14m 8s):
So full. The whale actually means like buy affiliates for affiliates. Right. So we’re just like going, it’s like, Hey, follow us if you want to be successful in Affleck marketing.

3 (14m 20s):
That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I remember your, when your company launched, say it’s been 10 years, that sounds about right. I remember seeing axle, Nick and Fred showing everyone the presentation at the Phoenix forum on the patio. And it was pretty revolutionary at that time. So what’s changed with the company since then.

2 (14m 42s):
The company definitely grew bigger. I just like hearing like this week that we were now close 250, like as employees, mostly all in Quebec city working under the same roof. So that’s pretty cool. And yeah, I think, I think actually the, the one thing I love the most about what change is that nothing really changed, meaning that we’re still like focusing on this same verticals, developing that expertise. So we’re still very strong in cam dating.

2 (15m 23s):
Obviously we’ve had it like new stuff to our portfolio we’ve been working with with the ed vertical lately. But yeah, I think that nothing really changed. We’re just like keeping to, to, to focus on, on the same thing, but making sure we’re, we’re just like better and better at what we do. And I think this is probably one of the most like successful thing we we’ve done is like not changing our, our direction all the time keeping or yeah.

3 (15m 59s):
What do you attribute the company’s incredible growth to, I mean, hell, there’s a lot of people that have come and gone since you guys started.

2 (16m 8s):
Yeah. I’d say again, that’s one of our, like one of the good things that we do is, is to develop those strong partnerships with, with our advertiser and, and other partners. So, so for us, like partnership of has always been like important. This is mostly why I’ve been like traveling the world like every year to make sure we go see her partner is like face to face, shake hands, have some good times like with them. And yeah, I think like today, this is probably what, what is explaining the most like or growth is that now we’re able to develop like things that you won’t find anywhere else because of those strong partnerships or advertiser.

2 (16m 58s):
Like they they’re trusting us. They know that we can bring them like good traffic and yeah, all of this is, is resulting in providing athletes with, with the best stuff we can.

3 (17m 11s):
Yeah. And it’s amazing to me that the people that I run across who are even newbies in the business that are familiar with you guys and asking me, Hey, what about crack revenue? What about working with crack revenue and they’re, and they’re familiar with you. And I almost feel like asking them, well, how are you familiar with them? But when they ask me, I always go, Oh, these guys are the best. You know? I mean, I know the, I know the owners, I know the guys that work there and management positions in there they’re phenomenal. I mean, yeah, you definitely want to work with them. There’s no two ways about it. So I guess that’s a good testimonial. Huh. So what’s the benefit for affiliates to work with you?

2 (17m 50s):
Yeah, like I said, obviously, to get access to top converting products. So that’s, that’s one of the basics. I, Sarah, like our, our team of internal media buyers and analysts is also constantly like testing funnels and, and creatives. So all of that data is being used to provide affiliates with the best offers and the best material again. Correct. Driven you being in the industry for so long and being a major player also made us develop those, those strong partnerships. And yeah, I’m also very proud of the high level of customer service that we’re, that we’re, that we’re providing.

2 (18m 31s):
So obviously I’m gonna, I’m gonna preach for, for my own team, but yeah. Whether you have like your own like dedicated that field manager or not, you’ll always be able to live chat with someone competed and to access like expert tips and tricks and yeah. And we speak French. So if she wants to have support in French, we can, we can do it also. So yeah. That’s pretty awesome.

3 (18m 58s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you mentioned data, obviously big data is a huge item in the business world today. You guys seem to use it better than others. Is that a pretty good assessment?

2 (19m 17s):
Yeah, we try to actually we’ve been working like super hard, especially in the past, like two years to make sure that all this data that we were like working with. So, so either from the, the media bio operations, either from the affiliates operation, so w we’ve been working super hard to make sure all this data was actually made available on the platform for affiliates and yeah, as of today, if you’re an athlete with us and you want to find the perfect landing page, you want to find the perfect offer. You want to make sure that’s, you’re using the best flow for like a specific country.

2 (20m 4s):
You can have access to all this data directly on the platform. So yeah, we’re trying to make sure to, to use that data the right way and that we’re allowing affiliates to benefit from it.

3 (20m 17s):
Okay. Now, how is what correct revenue does different one from what’s being offered by other CPA networks?

2 (20m 25s):
I think that the one thing that really sets Cracker and you apart is this and include the platform. So I was telling you a little bit about it. If you’re an athlete, you know, that most platforms like out there, they pretty much look all the same, pretty much a catalog of offers. And like basically a stats panel, our platform is offering like very different user experience. So obviously we’re, we’re powered by by tune, but the front, the front end interface for the, for the Philip is a complete different, like, experience, very easy to navigate, packed with marketing tips, tutorials, advanced insight, you’re going to find or latest blog articles.

2 (21m 17s):
There’s a bunch of stuff that you’re not going to find like in other CPA networks. And yeah, you’ll be surprised how often you’ll want to log in just to see if there’s something new on your dashboard or that you went up on the, on the leaderboard. So yeah, the platform has always been like something very, very distinctive.

3 (21m 38s):
How often do you guys update the platform?

2 (21m 41s):
Pretty much all the time. So whether it’s a new offer, it’s a, it’s a new blog posts article. Honestly. It’s pretty much like updated like every day with new content.

3 (21m 54s):
I mean, in terms of like a 1.0 2.03 point. Oh, how often do you, do you have improvements in the platform?

2 (22m 5s):
We’re pretty much like releasing like new features. I’d say athletes one or two features like every month. Wow. That’s for sure. We have these a roadmap station, like all the time to make sure we’re, we’re always working on, on something new, releasing a new feature, releasing a new page, releasing a new tool. Yeah. Honestly at least one or two items a month. Yeah.

3 (22m 36s):
That’s crazy. Well, I think that in itself set you guys apart because I think a lot of people rest on their laurels and I’ve always known you guys not to be a company that does that at all. Part from tested conversion funnels. What else is crack revenue offering to affiliate?

2 (22m 56s):
I was talking about the athletes ranking system. So I think this is definitely something our, our athletes or are enjoying. So yeah, based on their year leak commissions, the athletes will get a rank and a status to enable those, those per exam and goodies. So we started, like I said, this initiative, I think it was like two or three years ago. The cool thing about this year is that I’m super excited to say that 2021 will bring it’s a lot of new, cool stuff to the ranking system. So if you’re already an affiliate, you already know the ranking system, make sure you stay tuned because we’re going to be releasing you perks and you goodies for the FOS using the, the ranking this year.

2 (23m 51s):
And yeah. Other than that, correct, your new we’ll we’ll offer you custom creatives. If you’re a media buyer, we’re gonna give you SEO insights. If you were building your own website and want to make sure you’ll rank on Google, we’re going to give you strategies on how to keep your accounts healthy if you’re using social media. So we’ll pretty much become your best friend if you’re willing to team up with us.

3 (24m 18s):
Sounds good. Now, you guys are a CPA network. Talk about the advantages of CPA over other revenue models for affiliates.

2 (24m 26s):
I think that’s one of the advantage of working on a CPA basis is that ability to, to make sure the revenue model is adapted to your, to your reality or to the level of development that that’s you’re in. So obviously this CPA, like revenue model is going to offer like either like a PPL model or a PPS model. So whether, if you’re trying to, like, if you’re a media buyer, you’re going to want to have like that Quaker cashflow to make sure you can like invest in you campaigns and stuff like that.

2 (25m 15s):
So if you’re into this, you can’t focus on, on PPL. If you’re in for, for a longer run or if you have those super qualified traffic, you can choose the, the PPS model. So I’d say that, that the advantage of working on the CPAs, definitely that kind of like, like flexibility that the model is, is actually offering to the affiliates.

3 (25m 42s):
Okay. Now what’s the current state of affiliate marketing in the adult space. And how has it changed in the time you’ve been in the industry?

2 (25m 52s):
I like this question because I am always talking to people who’ve been there for so, so much longer than me. So yeah, I’m still, I’m still a rookie in this industry and like, it was singing earlier. I’ve only been there for six years, so it sounds like nothing, but yeah, things certainly changed. Like I remember back then Instagram, Snapchat, those platform were not as popular as they are now dating. Certainly not as popular, like as a Netflix marketing vertical. I remember my first, like I remember one guy was sparking the team man, and he was talking about making, like dating with his epaulets and everybody around was like, Oh man, like that’s a cool product.

2 (26m 42s):
Like that’s a new product. I’ve never this. So yeah, it changed a lot right now. Like dating is just like everywhere. And I think we also, we also saw change in the type of content that users are, are actually looking for. Like self-promoting material, like is definitely on the rise platforms. Like only fans Patri on stuff like that. So I think this is probably what’s changed the most. Okay.

3 (27m 11s):
Now how kind of filling it’s get the most from working with correct revenue?

2 (27m 16s):
I like this question. Talk to someone, make sure you talk to someone at your, at your network. This is honestly the best like advice I can, I can give to athletes. Make sure you’re you’re working with, with a person like sometimes. Absolutely it’s and that’s totally fine, but they, they like to keep things hidden from, from their food managers. So they want to make sure like nobody’s like stealing their, their ID is their concept and their flows and that’s totally fine, but make sure you talk to someone, make sure that you’re creating that, that, that contact with someone because they will give you the best insight.

2 (28m 6s):
They will unlock offers that are not in your dashboard. They will offer you better payouts. They will give you like insights. So again, I wasn’t, I was telling you, like, we can become your best friend, but that’s, if you’re willing to team up with, with us and for me, that’s definitely like one of the most important element. Make sure you talk to someone.

3 (28m 31s):
What do they think? What their secrets they think they invented the, the new recipe for the next slice bread.

2 (28m 40s):
Yeah. Well I think that ethically it’s always, always want to make sure that they, they have the most performing stuff and that if they have a new ID, they don’t want it to get like, and, and, and that’s fine.

3 (28m 55s):
That’s sounds like paranoia to me. I mean, if I’m working with the company, I lean on the company to help me, help them, help

2 (29m 3s):
Me. Right. Yeah.

3 (29m 5s):
I mean, the whole idea is it’s a partnership, at least that’s the way it’s supposed to be.

2 (29m 10s):
Yeah. Correct. We’re we’re supposed to be a team.

3 (29m 13s):
Fortunately, a lot of affiliates don’t really work that way. Right.

2 (29m 19s):
I would say nuts most of them, but that’s also our job to, to make sure they understand like what we can like bring to them. That’s a challenge for, for my team. They, they have to show what they would, they can actually bring. Yeah.

3 (29m 35s):
Yeah. The message has to be, Hey, I’m not here to steal any ideas from you. I’m here to give you more ideas to help you make money. Right.

2 (29m 44s):
Yeah. And they have to tell you what’s what’s in it for you. That’s the main, that’s the main thing.

3 (29m 50s):
Yes. Well, that’s always, that’s, that’s just part of sales, my friend, you know that, I know that when you were, when you were, when you were selling, selling iPhones, it was the same thing. So, so although people walk in, they buy iPhones, you know how that goes. So, but I think crap, I think, I think crack has kind of gotten to that point in this industry, to be honest with you. I think you guys, I think you guys get a lot of, a lot of people coming that I’ve already decided they’re going to work with you. And I think that says a lot about the company. So yeah, I think, I think that goes without saying, what are some of the biggest challenges affiliates have today?

2 (30m 34s):
I would say that acquiring like qualified traffic will probably like be one of the biggest challenge of the, of the industry. So, so I don’t think like getting traffic, like isn’t like is as much as difficult, but getting traffic that will actually convert and be qualified for the type of offers that you’re, that you’re looking for will definitely be a challenge. I think that lately, like regulations following the rules is definitely, I would say a newest challenge for the, for the, especially for the adult film industry.

2 (31m 21s):
So making sure you’re, you’re stepping out of the gray areas, making sure you play by the book. I think these are, these are challenges that we didn’t have so much like before, and yeah. You just have to, to play by the book, if you want to, to do it in the long run and making sure the, the, the advertiser will we’ll let you run like the, the products the right way.

3 (31m 53s):
What kind of regulations are you referring to?

2 (31m 56s):
Mostly everything about like regarding content. Yeah. So making sure that’s your, that’s your promoting content that you own. So not stealing stuff. I was talking about only fans, like getting content from a platform and like pushing it somewhere else. I think like a bunch of affiliates, sadly. We’re we’re doing it. And yeah, like we just have to, to go to go to, to, to leave that behind

3 (32m 31s):
You mentioned quality of traffic and as time goes on, it seems like every year a higher of the worldwide traffic is bot traffic. I mean, how does, how does somebody deal with that?

2 (32m 47s):
Yeah, it isn’t easy. I think like in the end, it’s just a matter of like, knowing, like knowing what your traffic is knowing what’s your, what’s your sales funnel is. So obviously if you’re buying traffic, you have to trust your, your ad network to make sure you’re receiving quality traffic. There’s a bunch of like super qualified ad networks out there that you can team up with after that, if you’re into bringing traffic throughout like social medias or throughout your, your own website, I think it’s just the thing of like, knowing what’s your, what’s your stuff is making sure you’re tracking your stuff like correctly and yeah.

2 (33m 34s):
But, but traffic is definitely like a challenge out there too.

3 (33m 39s):
Now what’s ahead for crack revenue.

2 (33m 41s):
That’s an interesting one. I think again, correct. Revenue will definitely CLI continue to, to grow. We’re exploring like you new segments for, for this year in the years to come. So I can, I can’t really tell anything today, but new things are definitely going to be, to be interesting for us. Like in the, in 2021, 2022, I was telling that that crack didn’t really change in terms of like, what are the, the, the focuses. So I think that we’re still continue to, to focus on, on cam on, on bidding, on these huge vertical for the adult affiliate marketing industry.

2 (34m 31s):
And yeah, we’re, we’re just gonna keep growing our expertise. And I was thought I was talking about the new ranking system. So you a new goodies, you perks new ways to make sure or affiliates are not just only rewarded by their commission and stuff like that. But we’re also adding like some kind of new value to their, to their partnership.

3 (34m 56s):
Okay. That makes good sense. You guys know you guys, aren’t a hundred percent adult though. Are you

2 (35m 3s):
Correct? A couple of years ago, like two years ago we started developing new partnerships, like within the erectile dysfunction vertical. So that was not like totally adult. Like, even if the audience is pretty much like, like similar and one of the thing we try to do at correct your view is just to make sure that we’re offering verticals that fit with or athletes want. So tomorrow the four athletes were to ask for, I don’t know, sweepstakes well would be trying to give them the best, like sweepstakes, like portfolio offers that, that we can, we’re also trying to like follow what the crowd wants.

1 (35m 54s):
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And you guys do mainstream dating too, don’t you?

2 (35m 58s):
Yeah. Yeah. We’re offering either adult or mainstream dating. Okay.

1 (36m 2s):
Okay. All right. Now what do you see changing in the affiliate space in the next three to five years?

2 (36m 10s):
I think we’ll definitely like see new platforms coming you ways of generating traffic. Yeah. That’s all the way is changing. We’ve seen like different things like for the past, like three to five years, I think we’re, I think we’re gonna see again, like you ways to, to generate content and new type of websites, we’re gonna see like disappeared. Those shady websites that were, that were out there. That’s pretty much.

1 (36m 44s):
Okay. Well, Hey max, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on the adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

2 (36m 54s):
It was totally my pleasure, Bruce. Thanks for having me.

1 (36m 57s):
Pleasure was all mine. My broker tip today is part, one of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later first, make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic’s expensive, whether it’s search engine, traffic, review, site, traffic, or affiliate traffic, you pay it a lot for this traffic. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is you want them to do. In the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay in North America. Most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world credit cards, aren’t used nearly as much in Europe.

1 (37m 42s):
For instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from in Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing nations. Many people pay by mobile to your homework and find out how people pay in the regions. You get. Most of your traffic, it will make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy, but since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t buy. If you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this as to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate.

1 (38m 24s):
People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies, where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user, you poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out. Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people that will be visiting your site next, make a good offer. If you’re selling something in the offers and good, you’re not going to make money. It’s plain and simple as that.

1 (39m 5s):
And if your offers to contact you or get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you’re selling something, make buying easy, show them an easy way to buy and then leave, help them by making suggestions on what to buy Amazon is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this. If you can, don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones.

1 (39m 45s):
The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to do. It’s not that hard. Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process, like a human being, whatever you do, don’t turn over that process to your designer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is. You’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Harry VAR white and that’s

0 (40m 26s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Max Bergeson. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with porn star and author Coralyn Jewel.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details. First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. The free speech coalition inspire program, we’ll host a new webinar on tax preparation for adult industry workers and content creators tomorrow at 11:00 AM. Pacific time led by FSC industry relations advocate, Lotus lane with bookkeeper, Jesse Hornby tax preparer.

1 (1m 19s):
Eric pull a check. That’s a hard one. And adult industry laborers and artists association, founder, Mary Moody. The event follows a similar FSE inspire panel in January. Although the 2021 tax filing deadline was recently extended from April 15th to May 17th lane felt a second panel was warranted with 2020 taxes coming due. And so many people in our industry, we wanted to bring together tax professionals with industry professionals to help get everyone over the finish line said, lane we’ll cover last minute tax issues, including deductions extensions, no pun intended, PPP loans and strategies for reducing your tax burden in 2021.

1 (2m 7s):
This is a specialized industry with specialized needs lane continued. There were too few resources available to us and many mainstream accountants. Aren’t familiar with the industry. No matter whether you use a big firm or file taxes yourself, this panel will provide the tips and strategies that understand sex work is real work to register. Go to free speech coalition’s website@freespeechcoalition.com. Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s per sale. At adult side broker, we are proud to introduce for sale an online casino that has hundreds of games, including table games, slots, sports, and many other games.

1 (2m 50s):
The site runs on a major platform that results in a first-class experience for players. It’s been online for three and a half years and has grown promising future growth for the right owner revenues in 2021 have started out very strong as compared to 2020, which was also a very good year time spent managing the site as a minimal, only a few hours a week. Get into the exciting and profitable world of online gambling, which is expected to grow to $67 billion by 2025. Now for only 15.2 million euros. Now time for this week’s interview.

1 (3m 32s):
My guest today on adult site, broker talk is coral and Juul coral. And thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

2 (3m 40s):
Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure

1 (3m 42s):
Now. Cortland is a perfect example of a woman living by her favorite quote. Patients will prosper. She’s an international best-selling author of the book when the ice melts the story of coral and Juul. She’s a working porn star, retired competitive athlete, porn director, swing club, owner fitness trainer, wedding planner, talent manager. I’m getting tired. Voiceover actors, a coach, and a motivational speaker. Now Coraline is the epitome of a strong, powerful female entrepreneur. You can follow her coaching training sessions, speaking engagements and book signing schedule on coral and juul.com as well.

1 (4m 23s):
As on our social media, Coraline has also released a new podcast and I love this name, the hanky panky podcast. It can be found@thehankypankypodcast.com. So Carlin, first of all, what do you do in your spare time?

2 (4m 39s):
Right. I like to go to the wineries and I, I have a little bit of a, I like to go to the casinos. I like to go and sit on a slot machine by myself and like put my headset on and just push buttons. When you have spare time. I do, I do sometimes

1 (4m 60s):
24 hours in the day. So, so tell me, where are you from and a little bit about your upbringing.

2 (5m 10s):
Okay. I was born in South Africa. I was actually born in a nun’s convent, which is kind of funny, considering what I do for a living now, wonderful Africa raised in California and I was a competitive figure skater growing up from the age of three. So majority of my life was focused on my figure skating career and took me to different places. North Carolina, Wisconsin, Germany, and lived in Sweden for four years, coaching their skating team. And now I’m back in California.

1 (5m 39s):
That’s crazy. Tell me about your figure skating career. That’s that’s very interesting.

2 (5m 46s):
Let’s see. I started when I was three years old, I was a single skater and then realized that pair skating was more of my calling. And so that’s what took me to live in different locations because there’s a lot of female figure skaters, but there are not a lot of male skaters, which means wherever the male partner that wants you, you go. So I did that. And then I realized that because I had at the time joint, what do you call it? Joint citizenship with South Africa, I was able to represent them in the Olympics. And so that was my ultimate goal was to go with my partner from Wisconsin and represent them in the Olympics. And then an injury caused me to miss the tryouts and that dream was put to the side because my injury was just not fixable.

2 (6m 30s):
I was still able to skate, but there was no ways that I could do when a pair of skater needed to do to be at the Olympic level.

1 (6m 36s):
Sure. Oh, those are, those are elite athletes now. That’s, that’s interesting. So, you know, when I’m watching pair skating on the Olympics and it’s, it’s one of my favorite things to watch by the way, there always seems to be this amazing chemistry between the couples. Okay. Some of them are actual couples, some aren’t okay. I get the impression, they’re all doing each other and that’s, that’s just my that’s, that’s my feeling. And if they didn’t at the beginning, they probably are at a certain point. How does that relate to, to the porn work?

1 (7m 17s):
You do.

2 (7m 18s):
So I think that it’s like, so I have a degree in theatrical production, so that’s my actual degree. And so I take that degree to everything that I do, whether it’s performing in an ice skating competition with a partner, or if it’s, you know, performing in an adult scene, you know, you’ve got to establish that chemistry with whoever you’re working with to make it believable. The same goes for I’m a wedding planner. So I take my weddings and my lifestyle swinger events as I’m putting on a theatrical production and you know, my staff and I have to have that chemistry so that we can put on the best production that we can put on. So I take that, I take that degree and I apply that to everything that I do in my everyday life, in my current career.

1 (8m 2s):
Okay. So there are some similarities between the pair of skating and the porn. Yes, absolutely. Okay.

2 (8m 10s):
Although I never slept with any of my partners. I’m sorry.

1 (8m 13s):
Oh, you know, you just, you just burst the bubble. You just burst a bubble for me because I was sure all these people were doing each other damn

2 (8m 23s):
Mine were mostly gay. They didn’t

1 (8m 26s):
Want me. Oh, that doesn’t well not know that part does not surprise me because a lot of the, a lot of the male figure skaters, they, yeah. They seem to have a little extra lift in their scapes. So how did you get involved in the adult industry?

2 (8m 42s):
So it’s kind of an interesting story, but to shorten it, my husband and I, when I was married, I was, it was 2008. So there was the housing market was crashing and I was actually an owner of a company for children. I owned a mobile fitness company and my husband made a suggestion that women sell their underwear online. They’re used underwear to make extra money. And it was that one comment that led me down, building a website, starting to join panty selling websites, which turned into custom videos, which ultimately turned into me, applying for a job and becoming a director and camera operator on the porn set. And I did not get into the industry until I was 35 years old.

2 (9m 26s):

1 (9m 27s):
So what does that, what does that make you a MILF performance?

2 (9m 30s):
I am a mil. I definitely have a moment.

1 (9m 33s):
No. And, and will, and will later be a Cougar, right.

2 (9m 37s):
I guess if they keep me right.

1 (9m 40s):
There you go. There you go. How’s the porn career coming. That’s that’s that’s that’s that sounds like a, that that really sounds like a, a double meaning. But anyway, go ahead.

2 (9m 52s):
I like, I like it actually, it could be my net, the title of my next book. Hmm. But anyway, because, because of COVID, a lot of it was put on hold, but that gave me a chance to really focus on getting my book published and organizing my tour for 2021. So I’m going to be doing, you know, seminars and motivational speaking. It also gave me a chance to work on my, my podcast and really focus on my podcast. And it’s just recently that I’m getting back into shooting. I was in Las Vegas last month and I’m actually doing a tour to Iowa, New York and New Jersey. And I have a New York, Miami, New Jersey in the middle of March. So that got it.

1 (10m 29s):
That’s good. That’s good. What do you, what do you like about shooting porn?

2 (10m 35s):
I feel that I really love a lot of times people ask me that along with why do I like the swinger community? I feel like it’s a sense of family. And I feel that at least from my experiences, everybody is, there’s nothing to hide. You’re upfront, you’re truthful. And you’re honest from the get go. So you walk onto set, you know, why you’re there? You know what you’re doing? You meet the director, you, you know, do the pretty girls. You asked them where the money shot is you do your seat and you get your paycheck and you leave. And there’s no, I feel that there’s no bullshit. There’s no BS sitting around on anything. So, and I like it. I like to perform. I really, I like to give the director my input of what I think will make the scene less cheesy, more, better, whatever it might be. And so I, I enjoy it.

2 (11m 17s):
That’s kind of, I retired for three years and I just went back. In fact, a year ago, February last year I came back shooting for score land group. I did a 40 something mag and then COVID hit. So I’m excited to be back and be shooting.

1 (11m 33s):
Now, how has COVID affected your whole porn career?

2 (11m 40s):
Like I said, it made it, it put everything on hold considering I took it. I took a three-year break. And then just as I came back in, in February, in fact in February of last year, I was in Chinatown when people were starting to about wearing masks. And I was, you know, everybody thought this was a Chinese only disease at the time and we didn’t know, really know what we were dealing with. And so, but what Covid did do is that when I, you know, came home from shooting, that it made me finish my book and it made me work on my social media marketing and interviews. I’ve done a ton of interviews and got my podcasts. And I’m also in the process of developing a new product line. We just got the trademarking done for that it’s coral and Juul, and working on getting that out on the market as well.

2 (12m 23s):
So I’m keeping myself busy with a variety of things,

1 (12m 26s):
The product line, what’s that going to be all about?

2 (12m 30s):
We have developed a CBD lube. So I’m working with yep. I’m working with a company in North Dakota. We are in the process of getting our everything’s patented. We’ve got three different levels of the loop and we just finished the logo design. And we are in the process of doing the bottling now.

1 (12m 47s):
Yeah. I actually spoke to someone who’s got another such product out of, out of the UK. So that’s interesting. So it’s the second time I’ve heard about a CBD lube and is that going to be the only product

2 (13m 1s):
Right now? That’s the only product that we have. There’s three different variants of it. So that’s more on the scientific side. There’s one, that’s got the Delta aid. So one that, you know, just makes you more sensitive is the best word for that. The second one’s more of a euphoric feeling. And the third one will actually kind of be like your high apparently is what I’m understanding. Now we have just tested the first one, it’s gone through testing. We’ve gotten our feedback on it and it’s, you know, my first time ever experimenting with a CBD lubricant. And I have to say, it’s, it’s definitely a different experience. I didn’t think that it was going to be able to absolutely a hundred percent is

1 (13m 36s):
That’s interesting. That’s really good. Yeah. The sky’s the limit with the whole CBD thing. Yeah.

2 (13m 42s):
Yeah. And it’s, you know, I told them when they approached me on the product, I said, I won’t put my name behind anything that I don’t believe in. And so on owning a swingers club, they sent me samples and they have passed out to all my members. I’ve got 18,000 members and I’ve actually got an event this weekend where everybody gets a sample and I’m going to continue to get feedback on it and see where we go.

1 (14m 5s):
You know, you have so many projects and it seems like they keep popping up. Is there, is there, is there ever, is there ever a point where you go, Oh, I’ve done enough.

2 (14m 18s):
Yeah. I mean, I get approached to do, you know, I get approached to do different things like a spokesmodel and ambassador for certain products. Again, it really has to be something that I feel strongly about. I did recently just break down and hire a social media manager. I’m going to need a personal assistant at some point, because it’s just too much for me to take, keep up on everything. And on top of that, I’m a wedding planner. And so when I have, you know, to plan the weddings or be at the weddings, somebody else has to be able to handle my phone for the other stuff that might come in. So yes, I, I, I definitely need some extra help and need some extra hands. I need to clone me like three times

1 (14m 56s):
At least. How, how, how did you end up becoming a wedding planner?

2 (15m 3s):
So I was, I, I started the different way. I started as a swinger club owner where I got into the adult industry. I started dancing at a strip club. They asked, they asked me if I’d be interested in running a swingers event there, I knew nothing about it. Researched it started a club, did an event, it was successful. And so the owner invested $50,000 in me starting my own club. That was in 2012. And so now I have 18,000 members. But what that did is it made me realize at my events that when people ask me, well, what is a swinger party? Like, do you just ring a bell and have an orgy at 11 o’clock? And I was like, no, not quite. And I realized that the best way to describe it is, imagine that you’re going to a wedding with the exception that there are playrooms.

2 (15m 49s):
If you want to go and play with somebody. So all of my events, I cater them. I bring in entertainers, fire, fire, fire, spinners, sword. Swallowers my event. This weekend, I’ve got a headliner drag performer coming in from Las Vegas. And it made me realize that if I can run a swingers event, I can sure as hell do a wedding. So that’s why I do the weddings as well. And I’ve been doing those since 2016. I am wedding. Wire’s a couple choice award winner, five years in a row now.

1 (16m 19s):
Wow. Wow. Yeah. I’m starting to see how your brain works. Yeah. Very, very good logical. So talk about the whole swinger’s club market. Obviously COVID has effected that as well, but tell me about the business and what you like about it.

2 (16m 43s):
So speaking of community, like I said, you know, I’m originally, the reason I’m actually divorced is because my husband and I were involved in it. The last year of our marriage, he ended up, he ended up having what I would call an emotional affair, which means that I would let him have sex with somebody in another room or next to me, but he was meeting this particular person for coffee and lying to me about being, you know, at business trips and stuff like that. So yeah, so people say to me, you know, why on earth would you stay in the lifestyle if you know, your ultimately your marriage of 14 years ended because of it. And I feel that again, it goes back to that sense of community. These are my friends. So there’s 18,000 members in the club. And, you know, out of the 18,000 members, I can definitely say, you know, there’s a good 200 of them that are couples that I not met.

2 (17m 30s):
They’re my friends. Now we’ll go wine tasting together. We’ll go on vacations together. But the swinger community, as for other event, hosts is very, very cutthroat. There are those of us that have been around for a long time and we support each other and we go to each other’s events and we are sponsors to each other’s events. And then there’s some of the newbies, the newbies that come in and just feel that the only way that they’re going to be successful is to be cutthroat to the others. So that’s difficult. That’s difficult because I don’t see that in our, in our adult industry, with the, with other porn performers coming in and downplaying the ones that have been on for a long time, you don’t see that, but in the swinger community, you do see that.

1 (18m 8s):
Yeah. I kind of get that sense. I, I brokered a, a broker to swinger site and I’ve learned a lot about the industry from the buyer who you could know, we can talk off, you know, we can talk offline about that. So whose idea was it to write a book and why did you write it?

2 (18m 31s):
So I’d always wanted, like, I would always tell people, like my story and people would always say to me, Oh my God, you need to write a book. And I would just laugh. And so I was actually at the AVN awards back in, I think, 2016. And I was talking to a girl that was selling body glitter, gold, okay. Edible body glitter, gold. And she was with the jury. She was with a journalist that would follow her around. And I was talking to her about having her come to my swingers events and market, her edible body glitter to my community. And the journalist guy was standing there and said to me, I’d like to have a drink with you and hear your story. And shall we have a drink? And it was him that said, you need to write a book. And I was like, I’m not an author.

2 (19m 12s):
And he said, okay, let me rephrase this. I’m going to write your book. So I knew where that I knew where that was going, by the way. So, so that’s how it started. He did start to write my book. He worked on it for about two years. All the stories are true. I would provide them all the information. He would put it into the correct grammar as we should say. And it was about two years into the, into the project that he came to me and said, I just can’t dedicate the time that you need for this. And I really feel that this book is going to be better, better done if it comes from your mouth Cortland. And if it comes from your words. And so I took over, I took over writing a book, which I’d never done before.

2 (19m 54s):
And then I got a publisher out here in California who actually lived, it turned out, she lives a mile from me. And she believed in my project and believed in my book. And she took me and it became a number one international bestseller within like six weeks. So this fast. Yeah.

1 (20m 13s):
Now how does that, how does that all feel to, to, to be an author, to, to have had a number one best bestseller? That’s gotta be pretty staggering.

2 (20m 25s):
Well, in my book, I talk about this a lot. And on my podcast, I talk about it a lot. I’ve always lived my life for other people, at least, you know, at least as a, as a young, other, as a little girl and going to college. And I was always trying to impress my father, especially. And what this has done for me is I finally feel that sense of freedom. I’ve come out to the, my family, my community, my children, with my story and my truth. And, and I’m proud of it. I mean, I’m proud to say that, you know, I’m an international bestselling author. I run my own podcast. You know, I’m one of, I was one of the, you know, the top milk performers for not being in very long, you know, weddings, I got into weddings and I told you, I’ve made, you know, a couples of choice, award winner, five times in a row.

2 (21m 12s):
And then I look back and I’m, I’m excited to see where my career is going to go. And I’m excited with what I’ve accomplished so far.

1 (21m 19s):
You ever wake up in the morning and go, what hat do I have on today all the time.

2 (21m 25s):
That is, if I go to sleep at night, that’s my, and my heart is my heart is to turn off my brain at night. My brain is constantly going and I’m writing. I’m writing a second. I’m writing a second book now because I’m turning my book into a series. So that’s on top of every, Oh, and we’re doing a documentary too. I forgot about that. So, yeah.

1 (21m 43s):
Ooh, tell me, tell me about that.

2 (21m 46s):
I’m working with a director in New York and one locally here in Los Angeles and California. And we are turning my book into a documentary. So that’s a whole nother project that I’m working on with those guys. Yeah. I need an assistant.

1 (22m 2s):
Any, anything else you forgot to mention to me in your bio Coraline? I just thought I’d ask.

2 (22m 7s):
I know, right? Let’s see. Wedding swingers events. Pornstar author podcast, host model fitness company, owner. And I’ve got the lube and the documentary. And I think that’s all right now. That’s good.

1 (22m 21s):
That’s that’s it? Huh? Ah, geez. Now, geez. Now I’m disappointed. Okay. So you started the hanky panky podcast. I’ll say the name again. Cause I could say that name over and over and over and not ever get tired of it. I mean, mine is, mine is boring. Adult side broker talk. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway,

2 (22m 44s):
It’s named after my swingers clubs. So my swingers club, he likes style and the Nate, you might know the reason the club became the name. I’m an adult performer. And I always can say his last name, wrong Hank pacara. He was married to animal. Do you know who that is? Okay. Well known adult performer. He was, he was the manager of the strip club where I danced at where the owner of the strip club said he wanted to invest in me. And the way we came up with the name was I went in to go and ask him a question. And he told me to be quiet for a second. He was on the phone with Hank. And when I came back in, I said, are you done talking to hanky panky? And he said, you just named our club.

2 (23m 25s):
So there you go,

1 (23m 26s):
Oh God, how did it, by the way, how did it feel to have, have this guy have the confidence in you to, to invest in this

2 (23m 36s):
Nerve wracking? Because like I said, I mean, I had been to swingers parties with my husband, but I had didn’t really have any experience. I mean, I was, I would volunteer a little bit at a local house party here, you know, here in Southern California. And I would volunteer as what’s called the front door host is show people around or collect them at the door. But I knew nothing. I didn’t know any of the swinger sides. I didn’t know the legalities. And that’s a lot of that is in my book too. There’s a lot of legalities that I’ve had to go through and lawsuits and yeah. You know, when people turn their back on you, there’s been a lot of that. So, but you know, it’s, you just got to persevere and keep going and keep trying.

2 (24m 17s):
And I do that for sure. So,

1 (24m 19s):
Well, in the, in the sex business, they throw as many roadblocks at us as possible.

2 (24m 26s):
Don’t they? Absolutely. But you know what? We can go and

1 (24m 29s):
Well, yeah, we do. And you’re lucky you’re in California. I mean, with the exception of the condom law, the, the state is a lot more liberal when it comes to everything. However, they’re also number one in terms of regulation. So having any business there has got to just be, hell I don’t envy. I don’t know if you watch, I don’t know if you watch a watch real time with bill Maher. Do you ever watch that?

2 (24m 55s):
I don’t know. I don’t, but I should. I actually don’t watch TV at all.

1 (24m 59s):
I’m not surprised you don’t have time, but, but he’s been, he’s been every week, he’s shown the number of days since he applied to put solar in his home and it’s over 2000 now and it took like three years, four years just to build a shed with all the, a little shed with all the dock permits he had to get and all the hoops he had to jump through.

2 (25m 26s):
Yeah. It’s ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. All of that. And even for me, the trademarking, you know, trademarking my name and trademarking my podcasts, and then they want your different classes and then they say, you know, it’s just, everything is just like an absolute, freaking nightmare. That’s all I can say.

1 (25m 44s):
Well, stuff’s complex, but if you have the right attorney, you’re good.

2 (25m 47s):
Yeah. Yep. Okay. So anybody who’s listening, I’m looking for a good attorney.

1 (25m 54s):
No, I got you on that. I’ll I’ll S I’ll send you to somebody. Okay, cool. Yeah. I’ll send you somebody, I’ll send you to my guy. So, so how did you decide to start a podcast and what’s the podcast all about?

2 (26m 9s):
Okay. So that is one thing I do do. If I’m driving in the car, I’ll listen to other podcasts. And what I realized is that there was a lot of podcasts out there that weren’t didn’t really have a goal in mind, or, you know, their topics were all over the place and that’s fine. You know, they’re just bringing in different guests. But I really, you know, the point of my book is to share my story and help other people not make the same mistakes that I made. And so I wanted to do a podcast where I touched on all those different things and also try to open up people’s minds to the misconceptions of the swinger community or the BDSM community, the kink community polyamory polysexual, what’s the difference.

2 (26m 51s):
And so it’s all about, that’s what my podcast is all about. It’s about, you know, bringing in a variety of guests. I just had an author today, Jane Boone, she wrote edge place. She, her whole book is written about the femdom world and it was all done on research that she did for four year period. I bring in sex therapists. I bring in scientists by an, you know, biomedical engineering scientist who developed a watch. That’ll make a woman squirt all these different kinds of things. I just want to open people’s minds to just listen and learn and see if we can get a little bit more acceptance. So

1 (27m 28s):
That’s, that’s awesome. Well, there’s, there’s certainly a need for that because our industry, first of all, is so misunderstood. And, and second of all, there’s so many people who really aren’t, they aren’t up to speed on, on how to be in the industry and how to do things in the industry.

2 (27m 53s):
And that’s yeah, that’s the other thing. I mean, I get all the time messages from young girls, 20 years old asking me, you know, where do they go? How do they know what’s legit? What is testing? How do they prepare for this scene? All these kinds of things. And so, you know, what I do is on my podcast every week, I also post a blog on my website, which is the hanky panky podcast.com. And that blog correlates with whoever my guest was. So it’ll focus on, what’s a fan page, what’s many bids. What is only fans? How do you do it? What is testing? Who do you test through? How often do you test, what does it cost? You know, how do you market yourself? All these different things. Safety is like my number one, protecting these girls and guys from making mistakes and signing with agents that are not legit, that are not licensed.

2 (28m 43s):
So that’s my goal. My goal is if I, you know, I just got, I just got the most amazing message right now in an email from someone who said that my, she listened to my podcast and she’s a lesbian all her life. And she’s trying to open her mind to be with men. And she says, my podcast is helping her do that. And that, that means the world to me, that’s exactly why I’m doing what I’m doing.

1 (29m 4s):
Yeah. It’s got, it’s gotta be very, very nice to have people say, you’re helping them. Now. You’re doing a lot. It’s kinda, kinda the understatement of the year. What are your future plans with? Pretty much everything you have going on.

2 (29m 25s):
Ultimately, my ultimate goal is I want to travel to different trade shows. Adult shows, exotica, AVN, and I want to do motivational and seminar speaking. I want to do educational conferences where I’m teaching people about the adult industry, the swinger lifestyle, bring on guests with me, people from the BDSM world, kink, poly therapists, psychologists. I, my, my goal is to educate, you know, just to travel and to educate, do my book signings, of course, right? I’m writing a series. So working on that, keeping my podcasts going as for my events, the swinger events and the weddings, there might be a time where I have to put those things aside.

2 (30m 8s):
I know, I know. Well, I can’t clone me and I don’t feel, I don’t feel comfortable letting anybody be the way

1 (30m 17s):
Kuwait, Carlin, you haven’t fit. You haven’t figured out a way to do that yet.

2 (30m 21s):
I’ll get on that. I’m gonna work with the science

1 (30m 23s):
Is going to be your that’s your next project. That’s your next project.

2 (30m 27s):
You never know they’re coming out with all these robots. Now we could clone Corlon. This would be good. Okay.

1 (30m 34s):
Oh God. I got, I got her thinking. That’s probably, that’s probably the most dangerous thing that happened during this interview.

2 (30m 40s):
Especially at nine 20 at night. I won’t sleep now until I develop a robot that cleanses me.

1 (30m 45s):
So what other, what other plans do you have going forward?

2 (30m 49s):
That’s that’s everything, you know, I’m just right now, I’m working on my tour because I’m still, Oh, I think I’ll, you know, I will put performing to it to the side at some point, but my focus, my focus right now is get my, get my name out there. Get the podcast out there, get my book out there, books by seminars, motivational talks and see where it goes from there. I like to challenge myself. I’m always up for a challenge.

1 (31m 13s):
Sure. Well, what, what, when you, when you finished performing, have you ever thought like many performers when they’ve had a long career of starting your own studio and producing for other people?

2 (31m 26s):
I don’t think I have an interest in actually doing that kind of stuff because I, like I said, my goal is to educate and to help. And so that would be creating. I do, I do right now. I do talent manage with a company down in San Diego. So we help new models come in. We place them with agencies. We educate them on what they need to know. So that’s a talent managing company that I work for. But as for opening my own production studio, I don’t think that’s the direction I’m going to go. I think I’m really going to focus on seminars and motivational speaking and my educational conferences.

1 (32m 1s):
Okay. Now you mentioned mental health. Are you, are you familiar with pineapple support?

2 (32m 6s):
I am very familiar with them. Yes. Yeah. Amazing.

1 (32m 10s):
Yeah. I would think that’s, that’s a firm you should be working closely with.

2 (32m 14s):
Yes, absolutely. I’ll definitely reach out to them. Okay.

1 (32m 16s):
I can, I can enter, I can introduce you to Leah. She was my first, she was the first guest on my podcast, by the way.

2 (32m 22s):
Oh, very cool. Okay. I was just, I just did ASN lifestyle magazine. They had me in their December issue. So yeah, I mean, I’ve done a lot of interviews with people as well, but I definitely that’s, that’s my goal too, to work alongside companies, you know, the free speech, I’m a huge, huge advocate for them would love to work alongside them. That’s what I wanna do. I wanna, you know, make people safer, make our industry safer and make people understand that the majority of us are actually pretty damn smart, pretty educated and entrepreneurial spirits. So yeah,

1 (32m 59s):
Most are most are not as smart as you. My dear

2 (33m 4s):

1 (33m 5s):
Entrepreneurial spirit among performers is rare, is rare. It’s more common than it used to be with the newer generation, but it’s but it’s still rare.

2 (33m 17s):
Okay. Yeah. We need to change that and change that. Yeah. I want these performers to know you’re more than just a pretty body on set. You’ve got, you’ve got experiences. You know, the biggest thing to talk about in my book is I say every, everybody has a story. Every single person in this world has a story. And every one of us can learn from sitting down, shutting our mouth and listening to somebody else’s story. And so I urge people to share their story.

1 (33m 45s):
Yeah, no, that’s a, that is definitely important. Now you alluded to it before, but I’ll ask the question. Do your friends and family know what you do? And if so, what do they think?

2 (33m 58s):
So am I, everybody knows everything. Yes. My friends and family, they know I was Well not anymore. I was, that’s actually why I retired about four years ago. So my, and this is in my book as well. I have a sister who was adopted from China, about 20 years old. She found my Instagram account. And instead of contacting me to discuss it, she contacted my older, my younger brother. And then they both called my father and my father called me highly disappointed. He knew that I ran a swing. Yeah, he did not. Did not know I was an adult performer or that I had worked out at brothel. And so

1 (34m 38s):
Put that party resume.

2 (34m 41s):
I worked up in Toronto at the, with Dennis off at the brothel up there. But my, my initial reaction, like I said, during the beginning of my whole life was all about, you know, pleasing daddy. And so I pulled, I pulled everything. I pulled my social media. I pulled my Twitter account. And so I’ve just recently had to start building everything back up again. When I decided to publish my book and come clean with my story, because I’m not ashamed of who I am or what I did. I’m actually proud of it because it made me all these different experiences made me who I am today. So everybody knows my children know my kids are funny because I’m my social media manager to set me up with a Snapchat. I don’t understand how to use it.

2 (35m 21s):
So I went into my 13 year old’s room and I said, TIR, do this for me. And he goes, no way in, hell I helping you with your Snapchat. I do not want to see it. Take your phone out of my head.

1 (35m 34s):
Oh, that’s funny. I’m not surprised though. By the day that I looked

2 (35m 38s):
At the 17 year old and he goes, no, and I’m like, all right,

1 (35m 41s):
You’re a mom. So what did you do? Ask him to ask him to ask one of their friends,

2 (35m 48s):
Just con guy contacted my bartender who works for me and said, Hey, I need your help with Snapchat this weekend. So I still have to, anybody out there who’s requested my friendship, but not ignoring you. I don’t know what to do with it. So I’ll figure it.

1 (36m 0s):
Yeah, yeah. That, that one’s that one’s above my pay grade too. What about now? How about dad now?

2 (36m 8s):
Okay. So my dad now knows all of that when he does it, but he doesn’t know, or he might know, and hasn’t said anything. He doesn’t know yet that I’ve released a book or that I have a podcast. I tried to tell him on the phone when he said to me, how are you doing during COVID? Are you bored? And I said, well, I just, you know, I’m get ready to publish my book. And he like laughed. And he’s like, that’s funny. And I’m like, okay, well, that’s what I’m doing.

1 (36m 32s):
Well, why don’t you get them a one or two, get them a copy of it. You can even autograph it.

2 (36m 36s):
I know. Right? Well, I’m waiting till this COVID my parents haven’t seen me in a year because of COVID. They’re very scared. So I’m waiting till this whole pandemic is over. And then I’m going to send them my website and a copy of my book and my podcast. So they can see, you know, the success that I’ve achieved and you know, and what I’ve done and where I’m going in my life. And hopefully there’ll be proud of me. So

1 (36m 60s):
I’m sure dad is already very proud. I’m sure he is. No, really, you know, it it’s a shock to the system, but once that shock is over, I’m sure he’s very proud. Yeah. Yeah. You can, you can be sure of it. Now, what advice would you give to someone just starting out in the business?

2 (37m 21s):
So if you’re just starting out in the business, whether you’re a male or a female, I really, really recommend that you, you know, go read, actually go read my blogs that tell you how to get into this industry. It’s really important that when you read, when a company reaches out to you and they want to hire you, that you get references that you get a website, what are they shooting for? What are the specifics of the scene? Where is the scene? What’s their social media, all of these different things. Cause there’s a lot of what we call in the industry. GWC guys with cameras. And you know, we’ve got these models. I’ll give you a perfect example. I had somebody the other day contact me on sexy jobs, wanted to set up a shoot.

2 (38m 3s):
We got on the phone and started talking about the shoot and short story long. It was a seventy-five dollars, $75 an hour for two hours. Full sex. No condoms.

1 (38m 15s):

2 (38m 16s):
And I, and he had told me that he was shooting with a girl right before me. And I proceeded to say, have you lost your mind? Like that’s, that’s out of control, but you see anybody who’s new in the industry, a young 18 year old, a 19 year old girl, she looks at that and says, okay, well, minimum wage is $15 an hour. If it is, and I can go and make $75 hour having sex with this guy, I’m going to do it without knowing the repercussions of what could happen to her. Sadly. Yeah. So that’s what I would tell people. Do your background checks, there’s plenty of sites. You can run people’s phone numbers. You can run their names, always do a face conversation. Whether it’s on Skype, zoom, Facebook, you need to see who you’re meeting, talk to them and get the references because you do your due diligence.

2 (39m 3s):
That’s what they say.

1 (39m 4s):
I agree with like any business, like any business, like you said, people, people have to be more business people. What advice do you have for someone who wants to join the swinger lifestyle, community,

2 (39m 17s):
Same thing you can go to. They can go to my podcast. I do a lot of stuff on that, but I always tell people the number one with the swinger lifestyle community is that you’ve got to communicate with coming in as a single female or a single male. You know, you might come in with expectations that, you know, you really, really want to have a threesome. And then when it comes down to what they say, you know, when fantasy meets reality, sometimes it’s not what you expected it to be. So it’s communication. It’s going back with your partner and saying, okay, I really, really thought that I was going to like having another, you know, another woman in the room with us, but actually I hated it. And I hated seeing you touch her and let’s not try that. Let’s try something else because there’s so many different aspects.

2 (39m 58s):
We talk about this a lot too. There’s so many different aspects of being a quote, unquote, swinger. You can be a lawyer. You can be an exhibitionist. You can be, you know, where you’re a husband and the wife is the hot wife and you want to see her with other single males. So you have to, you have to communicate. You have to give it a try. And if you don’t like it, you don’t like it. Don’t do it. And never, ever, ever, ever put yourself in a position where you’re doing something you don’t want to do. Don’t go into a play. Don’t go into a playroom with a couple that you meet, just because you think they’re hot without discussing with them what it is that they look for from this lifestyle.

1 (40m 33s):
That’s good. That’s good. Sounds like, sounds like another book. You’ve got to have some interesting stories about that in your time in the lifestyle

2 (40m 48s):
I do. That is. So when I, when I was publishing my book, I kept saying to my publisher, wait, wait, wait, I forgot this story. And wait, wait, wait, I forgot that one. She says to be stopped. He says, you have so many stories. That will

1 (41m 2s):
Be a good one.

2 (41m 3s):
Oh goodness. Okay. So, well this is like one of my favorites, I guess. So, so being in the, being in the lifestyle and running as, as a hostess, people laugh at me. I call myself Ms. Hanky panky, and you know, I’ll run into a playroom and there’ll be, you know, 10 people on the bed. And I go, everybody wearing condoms and I’ll throw condoms on the bed and they’ll laugh at me, you know? And I’ll go

1 (41m 24s):
Lifestyle mom,

2 (41m 27s):
You know, or if they ride my motor bunny, which is like a Sybian I walk in and I go, make sure you clean up your squirt. And then I walk, you know, they laugh at me, but when I first started this, it was 2012 and we had rented a mansion and I put, you know, my heart and soul into this beautiful mansion with that $50,000 that that guy gave me to make it what it was. And it was maybe one of our first parties. And it was like, you know, maybe my second party ever being the hostess. And I walked into one of our playrooms and there must’ve been 30 people on this, like full-size bed. And all I could think was, Oh my God, it’s going to break. Yeah, it’s going to break. I’m going to have to buy a bed. And as I’m standing there going, Ugh, okay. There’s a lot of you guys on the bed, all of a sudden, just a friggin, I don’t even know what you call it.

2 (42m 11s):
A gusher of squirt just comes and hits the ceiling of the man’s of the bedroom. And then this girl pops her head up to this day. I’m still friends with her. She’ll laugh. If she hears me tell this story. And she goes, I’m so sorry. I promise I’ll clean it up. And then she pops back down into the pile of 30 people. And I just shook my head, like, how am I going to get the squirt off the ceiling? So that was, you know, when I first started now, like nothing phases me, like I’ve been doing this for so long. I just, I walk in, I do what I need to do. And I walk out I’m very business mode when I’m at my events.

1 (42m 43s):
That’s that’s. That is an interesting, sorry. Give me one more. Give me one more. This is good. See, unlike your publisher, I want more,

2 (42m 52s):
Let’s see here. So I’ve got another one where, okay, so anybody that is my date for my event. So, you know, if I, if I’m dating somebody or they’ve never been to a swingers event and they accompanied me as you know, I called them my you’re my host for the evening with me. So I had a date. He was 28 years old and he was a prison guard. And I explained to him, you know, that they’re, you know, I’ve got security on staff. My security is trained to always come to me first. And if there’s an issue, then you know, I try to break up the issue first. And if I can handle it, my security is always standing there and watching. So, so usually when anybody arrives at the party, they’ve never been there before male, female, couple, my doorstop will notify me.

2 (43m 34s):
I come and I give them the basic rules. You know, the no means, no ask before touching, don’t be pushy, et cetera, et cetera. So they go, I go through the rules with them. So there was a single male. I stepped outside at one of my events and there was a couple there and they just looked at me and they said, listen, my husband wants to kill this guy, but we know your rules. So we’re going to let you handle it. That guy wrote that right over there. Won’t keep his hands to himself. So I walked over to him. It was a single male for this particular event. And I said to him, Hey, you know, you and I spoke on the phone. And you know, I asked you, you know, when you came in, I gave you the rules and why, why are you not respecting the rules? And he went and shoved me. And my security guard was standing right there.

2 (44m 15s):
And before I could do anything, my 28 year old date picks the guy up, throws him on the floor, puts his foot on his neck. And he says, Hey, you hit a woman B you hit my woman. See you hit the hostess at this event and I’m going to kill you. And I go, no, you’re not. Please take, please take your foot off of his neck. And then, you know, and then we dealt with the situation from there. Yeah. But you know, for most of the most parts or, you know, really, I can count on one hand, any like actual, like altercations, where we’ve had issues where my security had to get involved. I did have one where my, I had the SWAT team escort, somebody out. That was a pretty good one too.

2 (44m 56s):
I’ll save that one for my book though,

1 (44m 57s):
The SWAT team. So, so are, are these stories going to be in the documentary?

2 (45m 3s):
Yes. So some of them will, well, yeah, we’re working on that right now. And then we’re working on, you know, for the sequels of my book, each book is going to focus on a different aspect of my life. So lifestyle events, porn, shoot events, things that happened at the brothel. So what can I kind of break it down like that? I have lots of stories.

1 (45m 23s):
That’s awesome. We’re we’re, we’re going to have to do this again for sure. Where can work in your listener? Where can our listeners, as well as your listeners learn more about you?

2 (45m 33s):
Okay. So easiest is my website, which is core Lynn. So it’s C O R a L Y N, Juul, J E w E l.com on there. They can link to Amazon for my book. They can order a book directly from me, which is autographed and sent from me. And then they can also click right there on the front page, home page to the podcast, which is the hanky panky podcast. And that’s spelled H a N K I E P a N K I E podcasts. And both of those sites linked to all my social media, my Twitter, my Facebook, my Instagram, and that’s everything. You know, everything, those two sites will lead them anywhere. They need to go

1 (46m 10s):
Coraline. Once again, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adult side broker talk. And like I said, I really hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

2 (46m 19s):
Absolutely. Thank you for having me. That was super fun. I look forward to meeting you soon.

1 (46m 25s):
Likewise, thank you. My broker tip today is part seven of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement and escrow. So now you own the site. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is to make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. Now, the previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish in the agreement what the former owners participation will be after the sale, you’ll need to deal with the production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things. If you don’t have expertise in these areas, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult business consulting.

1 (47m 10s):
You can get more information on what this company does@adultbusinessconsulting.com. We help website owners, project manage and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting, payments, production, scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help. Anyway, you will now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting company to help evaluate all of those items and everything that side is spending money on and using to operate the site, make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better.

1 (47m 56s):
Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and also not getting the right service. Many times the server’s just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website next week. We’ll talk about how to sell a website and next week we’ll be talking to Max Bergeson of Crak Revenue.

0 (48m 22s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Coralyn Jewel. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Lance Hart of Pervout.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details. First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. Our shout-out section starts again with a couple of items from pineapple support, starting tomorrow, pineapple support and central university. We’ll be hosting a virtual happiness retreat. Everybody needs more happiness. Pineapple support knows that having a job you love is not enough to consistently keep spirits high and maintain a positive mental attitude.

1 (1m 22s):
This is why they’ve joined forces with fan Centro to provide you with a day full of workshops and webinars to inform, educate, and inspire participants, to enjoy a happier, healthier life. That’s tomorrow from two to 7:00 PM Eastern time, and on Friday at 1:00 PM pineapple support we’ll have a webinar on trauma and addiction. That’s designed to provide participants with an overview of the basic impact of trauma on the brain and the body. The presenter will review the definition of trauma, discuss how trauma is created and how addictions are often used as an adaptation to manage trauma and mental health symptoms.

1 (2m 3s):
Participants will learn about trauma informed approaches for the treatment of trauma and addiction. That address culture and diversity. They’ll also learn basic tools on how to regulate the body and explore how mindfulness meditation and yoga can be beneficial. In addiction. Recovery adult site broker is a proud sponsor. A pineapple support ex-business announced the launch of the official event website for the 2021 X biz Miami summer virtual conference presented by chatter bait and set for May 24th through the 27th. XB is Miami will once again, bring together the best and brightest cam models, clip artists premium social media stars and web pros for two separate talent and industry focus tracks that include networking opportunities, discussion panels, special events, and exclusive solo talks by top influencers capping off the summer series with a glamorous night of celebration.

1 (3m 3s):
The experts camel awards returns on May 27th with an expanded field of premium social media categories alongside cam and clip categories to fully celebrate the indie talent

0 (3m 15s):
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1 (4m 41s):
Now time for this week’s interview.

2 (4m 43s):
Yes. Today on adult site, broker talk is Lance heart of perv out Lance, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

0 (4m 51s):
Thanks for having me, man. It’s good to be back pleasure.

2 (4m 55s):
And as Lance mentioned, you are our first repeat guest on adult site broker talk.

0 (5m 3s):

2 (5m 4s):
And, and nobody else wanted to come back. No, I’m kidding. And, and the reason is because your segment was extremely popular and it really felt like when we talk, we were kind of just getting started. So we will continue today. Now let me tell everyone about Lance again, he’s one of the most prolific stars in adult. It can master any role and has done it all from gay, straight fetish by trans and everything in between his first scene was for Sean Cody. And he went on to become one of their top contracted models. After that he started his own fetish studio and produced clips, and eventually went on to found his current studios, man-up films, sweet fandom, and Lance Hart studios.

2 (5m 47s):
Recently he started a new site, hot stock com H O T H O T T S, which is actually hot T s.com. And with over 10 years in adult, Lance’s worked with all the top studios, including kink, evil angel loss, cinema, iron male, or icon male trans erotica, transsexual, gender X fetish force, wasteland, and severe sex films. He’s an official spokesmodel for Playgirl as well as a brand spokesmodel for XR brands. Now Lance’s received countless nominations, including from ABN X biz, the <inaudible> fetish awards Collesh bought awards, gay flesh bought awards, PornHub awards, all porn awards, urban X awards, cyber socket, and the Grabbys.

2 (6m 37s):
Let me take a breath. Okay. He’s one niche performer of the year and multiple awards for his seen work from the AVN awards male clip artist of the year from the expos awards, and he’s won the X biz cam awards best male clip artists. Lance has also scored male performer of the year from the fetish awards three times in a row, as well as a favorite male fetish, webcam, performer, and favorite fetish featured film. Lance has also won best male performer from the alt porn awards, tea awards, and gave an awards. He’s grabbed a ton of mainstream coverage from outlets like GQ, Buzzfeed paper magazine, the daily beast, the Boston globe Oxy and input.

2 (7m 23s):
Okay. That’s quite a resume now, Lance, you have some new sites on <inaudible> dot com. Why don’t you tell me more about them and tell me who’s going to direct them for you.

3 (7m 37s):
Sure. So my good friend, Nikki hearts already had a site called diet down and she was running it pretty well. I mean, it was, it was going well. She was doing it sort of like all on her own w excuse me, with like a WordPress kind of background and had quite a following, but it just needed a little kick, need, a little funding. And she needed backend support, like someone to do the affiliate stuff and all the traffic trades and the, you know, make it show up on PornHub and make it, do all the stuff that no one tells you how to do it. You have to figure it out, you know? And so I invested in that site and moved it over to perv out.

3 (8m 20s):
And now that’s the first of hopefully many deals like that. Or I find someone who’s directing and kind of kicking ass, but just needs a little leg up and bring them on board. And, and, and she’s at sites doing great. I mean, for a brand new site, especially I’m blown away with how well it’s performing. I mean, we, we increased her revenue, you know, it’s, I don’t know. I mean, we, it was, it was doing 200 a week now it’s doing 1400 a week. You know what I mean? Just in the, in the first insulin around a couple months on prove out. So it’s a kinda killing it, you know, for brand new, it was a brand new, but I mean, it was, it needed, it was brand new to the, I don’t know what you want to call it.

3 (9m 8s):
Like the,

2 (9m 9s):
Most of the users, most of the users, if they’re only doing 200 a week and now it’s seven times what it was.

3 (9m 15s):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s gone up quite, yeah. Quite a bit. So there, so that’s exciting. And I started hot Ts, which like you said is hot. When I bought the domain, I was like, Oh, hot Ts. That’s it. It’s a really short domain. That’s great. It’s great. And then I bought it, it was one of the premium ones. I just spent like three grand on it. And then I’m like, Oh, hot. It just is hot. Well, whatever happened, fuck it. It’s high. All just branding. It’ll be branding. I’ll just make a hotseat. So, so that’s brand new and you know, people are loving it, but it’s, you know, it’s brand brand site. No one’s ever even heard of it before. So that’s gonna take a couple of years to really pick up, but Oh, something I’m doing different with that since only fans is changed the landscape of porn, kind of rolling with that and just put money out there for, you know, the top notch performers who are working, you know, top notch, trans performers doing actual sex scene, you know, with Anil cum shots and stuff.

3 (10m 17s):
I’m buying non-exclusive rights to a lot of their scenes and moving them over to hot Ts. So it’s, it’s a win-win I would say, I mean, you know, they, they get a little extra money or maybe they, they live in LA, but they want to work with someone they’ve always wanted to work with someone who lives in New York, but they’re like, it’s only fans. I’m not going to fly across countries. It’s crazy. So I find the travel, the hotel, make a person and then give them each a couple hundred bucks or whatever, you know what I mean? Cause they were going to do it anyway. There was a trade with someone that week, but now they’re they’re trading and I get non-exclusive rights to throw it on hot Ts. So for the end user, that means they don’t have to join like 15 of their favorite porn stars, only fans and tip them all and do all that kind of stuff.

3 (11m 1s):
I mean, I hope they do, but it’s a little bit easier for an end-user who likes super firs of variety. Yeah.

2 (11m 9s):
Well, it’s going to help their only fans as well, because they’re going to be more aware of them. They’re going to go there and probably look at more scenes.

3 (11m 18s):
Yeah. And I’m, I’m linking back with a banner. I mean, they get a banner on the, on hot Ts that links directly back to their only fans. And so it’s as fair as I could make it. And so that that’s my plan and put money away in case the only fans bubble pops. And there’s gonna be a lot of performers with a lot of content and nothing to do with it. So I don’t wish that on anybody. Cause that’s my friends. Yeah.

2 (11m 45s):
Quite frankly. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

3 (11m 49s):
Yeah, no. Yeah. I D I don’t, I don’t, but everything goes up and down, you know what I mean? So eventually, eventually next five years, something’s going to change again. And we’re going to have a lot of performers looking for a new platform or new something, something. And for the end user of hot Ts, you know, having 400 new scenes or whatever, new to them. Wow. That’s their favorite performers working with people that really, really wanted to work with. Cause it’s the only fan strayed. I see that as being a good, good one. So that’s playing on hot Ts and JP from canc jump. All the Pope is starting the Pope’s bitches.com with perv out.

3 (12m 30s):
Hopefully we’re going to start shooting for that in about six weeks. So it’s, you know, it’ll be awhile, but that’s going to be a Provet site. So we’ll have some straight, straight ish. It might be some trans woman on there to a hardcore SNM like JP does. I mean, he’s the best at that crazy SNM hanging someone upside down time to bowling ball around their neck and fucking with a tattoo till they come their brains out. I mean that he has like the top notch fuck machines that are like crazy engines behind them. They’re not like the cheesy sex toy ones. I mean, it’s like a Detroit diesel engine. I mean, basically it just, just fucks the brains out. So he’s got all that and we want to do a site. So we’re doing that.

3 (13m 11s):
And what’s the other one bad father.com that’s coming soon. Probably. Yeah, I think so. It’s going to be, it’s going to be gay and I’m playing on the father of that every once a daddy, you know, so it’s father in the sense of a priest and father in the sense of a daddy just doing some poor parenting and leadership and you know, you know,

4 (13m 36s):
I can’t imagine a priest doing that. I know. Right. But we’re gonna, we’re gonna, I’m going to gamble it and say

3 (13m 43s):
It happens sometimes. And some people I think maybe so, so those ones I’ve done a lot of like Faucette stuff and I, it’s just not my bag. I don’t really like, I’m not against, I mean, I get it. It’s it’s, I don’t really to kink shame anybody, but I just don’t like being around it. It’s just not my cup of tea. So, so that will, I want to find a director or maybe I’ll outsource I’ll maybe I’ll have a mixed bag of three or four directors and just mix it up and outsource all the shoots, but I want to get good people who really want to make cool gay porn. And Nikki’s very interested actually in doing that. She’s very artistic and just has a good eye for making shit, not just pretty to look at like film wise, but hot, too good to jerk off to the same time, which are two separate things.

3 (14m 32s):
And she doesn’t both well, so yeah. So there’s that and by fuck, still kind of moving along and I dunno, you know, just kinda growing the network, see what happened. We just, just revamped provider affiliates too. So now it’s pretty, it was just a gnat’s basic ass background. Now it’s like a pretty affiliate program. So whatever that’s worth,

2 (14m 53s):
Definitely I’ll definitely take a look. So let’s talk about provide affiliates. What, what if you’re talking to an affiliate, why should they join your program?

3 (15m 7s):
Well, we have content that a lot of people don’t like by content, if they have a way to convert a by market base, we we’ve got, there’s only a few buy sites and I fuck is the only by site made by an actual bisexual myself and wait and I shoot bisexual people. I’m not, I’m not shooting people who are like, yeah, I guess we’ll do that for the money. I mean, it’s people who are like really into it and the way we shoot it’s a marathon of bisexual sex. I mean, it’s like 70 minutes of footage per shoot of anal footage. Not just like dialogue and shit, but I’m talking like, fuck it for like 70 minutes.

3 (15m 47s):
So this is, I would call it like, you know, pretty dank porn. I mean, it’s really hitting hard. And if they got, if they got a market, they could tap into the market. It, it converts well, the gay site man up films also converts insanely. Well, I mean, it’s, it’s, the traffic is like, if I was talking to you like about brokering and trying to sell it, the traffic would be the weak point. I’d be like, man. Yeah, it’s kinda embarrassing. It doesn’t get the most traffic, but it comes out of the money man on a body. Yeah. It’s that? Holy shit. It makes a lot of money. So I’m, I’m paying out. I don’t know, like two or 3000 a week to affiliates every other week, every other week, every 50 days, my payouts are around, you know, two or three grand and it’s a relatively new affiliate program.

3 (16m 34s):
So I think that’s pretty impressive. There’s a few in there that are, there’s a guy on tumbler. He’s not even a professional affiliate. He had a tumbler page and a big following. And don’t, you know, these days tumblers, all sensor and shit. And he reached out and just said, Hey, I’m big fan. I post your stuff. I hope you don’t mind on my tumbler. And I said, why don’t you be an affiliate and try that. I didn’t think he’d do it. And he did. And he’s making 500 bucks every two weeks, you know? So it’s converting, you know, packing pegging stuff. Now pegging is becoming more and more mainstream, but sweet phone job just has, I’d say second to sometime empire.

3 (17m 18s):
It’s probably got the most pegging videos with hot people in it and big dicks and not just, Oh, I can kind of see a little tiny trainer dildo going in and out. I mean, we’re talking about like, and porn stars, a big followings. It’s, it’s a, it’s a thing. So my friend runs feminine empire and that’s, that’s like the top. I mean, that’s the one to be, I think in femdom. I mean, she’s got the best one, but I, you know, sweet out. I was no a slouch. I mean, he’ll just really bring it in. Yeah. Yeah. It’s working out.

2 (17m 55s):
I know, I know. I know. You’ll get there. How, it seems like you really like, you know, you, you mentioned S your new site <inaudible>, it seems like you really like mentoring people and helping make them successful. And of course, that makes you successful.

3 (18m 12s):
Well, I do. And it’s, I mean, honestly, it’s selfish. So like, my parents are happily retired still. So, you know, since I got married when for a million years ago and happy, they’re good examples of happy people like that did well in life. And they both grew up poor and in different ways, you know, my mom’s South Louisiana, swamp people, my dad’s a Kansas farm farm guy, and they’re both living large. And, but the thing is, it’s not just like they did well and retired millionaires. That’s, that’s cool on its own, but you have so many friends and they, every weekend they’re even with COVID, they’re fucking maniacs.

3 (18m 54s):
I mean, I worry about it, but they’re there constantly. Oh, so-and-so is over. Or we’re going to Arkansas to see this person or that bird. I mean, it’s, it’s like, guys, you need to stay. Oh. But the point is they retired was so many friends that also did well because they had this error. My dad is always helping people. My mom’s always helping people and I’m busy bees, both of them. And that’s cool. That’s what I want. I don’t want to end up. Yeah. I don’t want to end up like 70 with no friends, like trying to make new friends in some retirement community. Like hopefully a nice one, like a country club or something. But like, I mean, it’s, I don’t want to be like the only, and also the only guy that’s been a sex worker, his whole life, like, I kind of, it’d be lonely as fuck.

2 (19m 38s):
Hey, maybe, maybe we should, maybe we should start in an old age home for, for retired sex workers.

3 (19m 45s):
I buy, I’m going to need it for sure. I know some other people will, but I I’m like, I just, I just admire this so much about my parents. They, they have so many friends and I think that’s priceless and you don’t just randomly, it’s not luck. I think that’s cause they, they, they ha they got a lot of help and they helped a lot of people. And along the way, they built real jobs

2 (20m 9s):
Right. By people. Yeah. Yeah.

3 (20m 11s):
So that’s key. So right now, when I see all my friends at different levels in the game making maybe 2000 bucks on their own on only fans, or maybe they get four or five paid bookings to the people who were making 50 grand a month on only fans in there and they can get, get booked all they want. And they’re, they’re just killing it. The different, like you can get from the first one to the second one within reason. I mean, most people can get pretty close to that with a little bit of help and a lot of effort. And I don’t know, I just, I just want to end up with a bunch of people who’ve rich too, and did well, you know, so that’s kind of the thing

2 (20m 51s):
That’s awesome. Now, how does the influence of only fans and sites, like only fans on the industry affect standalone pay sites? Like what you have?

3 (21m 3s):
So it’s a, it kind of like, it was with hat, like I’m saying what hot tea. Yes. I think there’s no fighting it. Don’t, I mean, it’s, it’s where the market is. So it is what it is no complaining about it. Like people I’ve found on set sometimes will say, God, these models don’t even show up anymore. It’s so hard to book them. Cause they’re all rich on only fans fuck us. And I’m like, well, good for them. That’s cool. We should be happy for them. And we should work with them and do things like ask them to supplement our content, you know, like bolster our ranks and our updates with their at home stuff and, you know, work alongside each other, the ones who are interested, help them make their own pay sites, not just an only fans.

3 (21m 48s):
Cause it’s good to have a backup plan, you know? And you know, only fans marketing is essentially Instagram and Twitter. That’s, that’s it? I mean, unless you got some other special thing going on, nobody does, you know, and, and if you’re doesn’t matter how awesome you are, like even Assa, Kira loses her Instagram once a year, but it just gets deleted because she’s important. So it doesn’t matter how verified or awesome you’re doing, you’re at risk. So I, you know, helping some of these people get their own standalone pay site that can’t get shut down that relies on affiliates and traffic trades and email blast to get us traffic and not just their social media, I think is helpful.

3 (22m 35s):
Right. So we’re all still connected is cool. And, but it also means we got to shoot content that people are interested in doing the days of, Hey, I’m paying a thousand bucks show up and then they show up like, well, fuck, I need a booking. I got it. Okay. What are we doing? Well, you’re doing this, eat that shit. And I hate that shit could be, we’re fucking in a kitchen, on a granite counter. That’s really high up and it’s uncomfortable or like a school desk, which are like the worst to fuck on because they’re wobbly and tiny or we’re doing some kind of rough anal that like you do, but you don’t really like, you know, stuff like that.

3 (23m 16s):
Now it’s on us booking people, director, producer, people to say, well, who can I, I need, I need this content. This is what I want to shoot. Who wants to do it? Cause they’re not going to do it if they don’t want to do it. Cause they’re making only fans. They’re going to say, Whoa, who I work at with, what am I doing? Where’s it at? How long is it gonna take? I mean, these are the new questions we weren’t good at, but that, I think that makes better content, you know?

2 (23m 42s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Have you ever thought of doing stand-up by the way,

3 (23m 48s):
Man? I wish I I’m very, I’m convinced. I would. I always want to do is sketch comedy. I love that show the state when I was a kid, it was like on a TV, like Canadian sketch comedy. The Saturday night live like all the, all the sketch

2 (24m 5s):
You could totally do. You could totally do stand up and just use the material about the industry. And I think people would eat it up. Obviously not every, not every person is going to be comfortable with it, but God look how good Sam Kinison did. You know? And he, and he was pretty unclean. I’ve sent some of the more uncleaned performers do really well. Not, not to give you a new advocation, but it’s, it’s something to think about.

3 (24m 31s):
Oh no, I appreciate you saying that. I’m pretty convinced. I’m like almost funny enough to go pro like that. So it’s a good thing naturally towards a good fit because I can make, if I feel like, Oh, this will be cute and funny, I put it in a form and then if it bombs and it’s not funny who cares, they they’re there for the porn.

2 (24m 53s):
Yeah. You should give it some thought. I’d love to see you do stand up, but I’m waiting for the HBO special anyway. So you’re on the board of the free speech coalition. Maybe you can give me an update on what’s going on with the past system.

3 (25m 9s):
Sure. So currently testing and porn is it come down to talent testing. They did a great job of winning that game. And so they, and they also separated themselves from the past system or last year. So, so pass has become less relevant than ever. And that’s, I mean, generally pretty, pretty good job. Like I use it it’s I trust it. But the issue is it’s a for-profit company, you know, it’s owned by one guy and it seems like a good guy.

3 (25m 49s):
Sixto I’ve talked to him, but he’s one human man. And if he retires or God forbid get sick or can’t work or what, you know, or just shit happens, you know, that whole system that we entirely rely on in order to make porn safely could go away or it could also be corrupt and not, I’m not suggesting that he’s corruptible, but he’s wanting human. And if it came down to, well, she had someone got HIV on set, but if we call a moratorium, we’re going to lose money because no one’s going to test for two weeks. Maybe we just don’t call them auditorium.

3 (26m 30s):
You know what I mean? Like that’s scary. So that’s why we needed the past system, which is run by our trade association and it’s not for profit. And it’s a mix of talent testing and cutting edge testing, all the other tests, you know? So we need that back, forth and up and going so long story short, what we had to do is six dos said, he’ll work with fast again, if we, if we break it off, break, pass off from the FSC and say, okay, it’s its own separate nonprofit. And he wants to be a part of it, like, you know, once a vote and all that kinda shit.

3 (27m 10s):
So we did that. So now the Fs FSC has split up into three groups. So now it’s the past system. It’s the, what the FSC was before, like the general trade association. And it’s also the pleasure products like sex toys and stuff. That’s was a part of the whole FSC. Now that’s its own separate part. And yeah, so we split it up and me and three other people, two other people are officially like the board for pass. I’m a secretary. Technically. However, it, we have a weekly meeting that’s actually like eight or nine people, you know, there’s the board that operates.

3 (27m 51s):
And then there’s like what? What’s on the legal paperwork. And, and so the board that operates as a bigger group and then there’s a representative from APAC and there’s, it’s more of a mixed bag. We have some, you know, PhD candidates who are just like health people, which we need on that kind of a thing. And, and so the it’s, it’s cool and it’s exciting. And we’re working on an app that’ll come out for pass. That will be super slick. So you just go on her phone log in. I need you to test anywhere in the country. Okay, cool. Here it is. And then you go work with someone and you’re like, Hey, pull up your app and you see your test. And then you decide what a, when I show someone my app, what does it show?

3 (28m 34s):
Does it show my legal name and my stage name? Does it show all my results ever? Or just the ones they need to see? And it’s, you know, it’s fucking cool. Yeah. Just it, you know, it’s an absence in development. So the plan is get six door to come back or build a competing talent testing. Like basically a knock knock off dental testing and build a competing business, which we wouldn’t do. But big companies who are interested in that would do that. And that’s

2 (29m 2s):
Maybe, Oh, the key, the key is to make sure you’ve got the, you know, got the safest environment to shoot in. I could see, I could see a, I could see an app like that being established very soon for a COVID tests as well. Count on it.

3 (29m 20s):
Surprise. No one did that yet. Yep. Yep. So, so all that’s all that’s like on officially where we’re at, there’s more details, but you know, it’s a moment of board and I signed an NDA, but that’s, you know, that’s just, that’s the gist of it. We’re in the works and the system don’t give up on passes. What I tell people is it’s a lot, people have written it off, like whatever. And, and like I said, I use it too. It’s cool, man. I in six days has been nice to me. Every time I talked to him, he should, I’m not hating on him at all. Just, it’s not the way you’re supposed to do something like that in any industry that has a health thing, part of it you’re supposed to the trade association or someone like that is supposed to oversee it.

2 (30m 6s):
Interesting. It sounds like changes are in the often, Oh, it’s all the same. Just we’re working on it. Yeah. I’m sure there will be an announcement when the time comes. So what’s the latest with FSC in LA.

3 (30m 21s):
So we’re, if you’re concerned about what happens on Capitol Hill and sex work and porn, the thing too, I didn’t know. The thing that most people don’t know is the only entity. Like if you think about APAC, APEC, BiPAP, FSC, all the things you know, that people kind of go to for help pineapple sport, all those things, FSCS, the only trade association, it’s the only five Oh one, whatever like legal entity that is allowed legally to hire lobbyists on behalf of our trade. So that’s how that works.

3 (31m 2s):
So we’re what we did. FSC put together a legislative committee, which is me and a bunch of other people, including, you know, a lot of Evans may PAG and Tim Woodman from APAC and we’re growing it. We’re, we’re looking for a BiPAP person and just get rounding up the troops and FSE had California state lobbyists in place, but we’ve our contract with them is up and it’s time to find federal lobbyists. Cause that whole associate thing was pretty scary. Thank God doesn’t fizzled big time, but who’s to say, what’s next.

3 (31m 46s):
So we need a pro in Capitol Hill, who’s representing us or a team of pros that not only helps us fight stuff that we bring up that sort of reactive. We want someone in there proactively fighting for our industry. Meaning the things that we take for granted how shitty they are. Like if you’re a sex worker, you can’t really open a bank account and America like you, you, if they say, what do you do for, can you say a webcam? They say, Ooh, we can’t take your money. Jesus great. And you’re like, it’s legal. Why not? They legally can say, fuck you. So, and they do a hundred percent of them will say, there’s a moratorium currently on any kind of sex worker, opening a bank account in America, not possible.

3 (32m 32s):
You gotta lie. So that stuff, we want to fight that. And you know, involvement in the industry

2 (32m 41s):
And evolvement in the industry. I’m a website broker. And if I tell them what I do, they, they say, Oh no, no, no.

3 (32m 47s):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that’s, and that’s bullshit. That’s gotta, there’s gotta be a law in place that says, Hey, you can’t discriminate against legal citizens. Like they’re not doing anything wrong. Why, why, why can’t they have a bank account? What they can vote? Like what we’re not talking about. Like ex cons and shit. I mean sometimes, but you know, but it’s, it’s like, what? So it’s crazy so that we need someone in place. And then also of course, when new bills come up that say, Hey, every sex worker needs to register like a mute and X-Men or something. You know what I mean? Like, like what almost happened?

3 (33m 28s):
We need someone fighting that. So the deal is it costs about 10 grand a month to have a really bad ass lobbying firm fighting for you, which is not bad. Right. And if you think about it, so the, the first, I mean, obviously mine, geek and gamma are very supportive of the FSC.

2 (33m 50s):
I was going to say, mine Gates should be bankrolling at themselves considering what’s going on. Yeah.

3 (33m 56s):
And they, God, they knew God wants them there. I mean, you know, they’re, they’re going through the ringer and they’re fighting. People are here.

2 (34m 3s):
The whole thing, that thing in Canada, my God. Yeah.

3 (34m 6s):
Yeah. It’s if they’re getting it bad, it’s tough. So they, but what we, what I wanted, what a lot of us that FSC wanted was not to have mind geek fund that 10 K a month themselves because it’s kind of shitty. Right? Cause then the biggest scariest porn company gets a say on what the lobbyists is. Cause they paid it. They paid the bill. That’s crazy. That’s not what we want. So Mary Moody is, is helped out, but she’s a bad-ass cam girl, lady, and she’s also pretty much an advocate all around. And she’s helping on the legislative committee and Erin and I are kind of, our role is to, as soon as we pick a lobbyist and figure out what the bill is, start raising money from the performers.

3 (34m 53s):
So, and it all goes back to the only fans thing these days, we’re, we’re not trying the, the sex worker that’s survival, that’s surviving and making two grand a month, just barely and trying to get diapers for their kid. We don’t want their money. Right. We don’t want to bug them, but there are a significant amount of sex workers who are making, you know, 250,000 a year or 500,000 a year, a million a year. Now that’s not, that’s not, that’s not even crazy. Make over a million a year on only fans. We want them to step up and say, Hey, yeah, I need to fight for the rights of my people and you know, a thousand a month.

3 (35m 37s):
Well, they should have industry. Yeah. They still want to keep making that money. Yeah. I mean, some, some law could come up that kills only fans. That could be the end of it. Right. So all it takes is some congressman’s cousin or nephew to be on only fans and they get embarrassed and they’re like, ah, they’re just like what happened with the what’s it the, the, it sounds like a fucking shitty glam rock band. The, the group that hates porn.

2 (36m 4s):
Oh yeah. In COSC. Yeah.

3 (36m 8s):
It’s the OSC. Now that there’s something, something it’s, it’s a terrible name, but they they’re the ones that were fighting porn the whole time.

2 (36m 18s):
Oh yeah. And that, that, that they probably put Christophe up to writing that article for the New York times. When I saw that article, I went, Oh fuck, here we go.

3 (36m 28s):
The story behind all that was somebody had someone in power, had a, a family member who was under age and their video ended up on PornHub. And that’s the story. Right? And they were super embarrassed because they’re a person of power and it was super embarrassing. It was bad. And of course, it’s true that you shouldn’t have any because that’s a terrible thing to have. That’s just agreeable to everybody. That’s not fucking happen. And they, but instead of just emailing PornHub at TMCA or doing whatever, you’re the shit that works to get the video down immediately. They went rage crazy and just talk shit about porno, but we needed to take the whole fucking site down.

3 (37m 12s):
And then they found other people who the same thing happened to them who also just needed a little help. Like, Oh, if your video’s on there and you don’t want it there, you click here and send this email, it’ll be gone.

2 (37m 23s):
Contact us. Yes. And this is deep sea. Yeah,

3 (37m 26s):
It is. So I can I get my stolen content down quick? Like within an hour all the time. It’s like, shit works, man. It is like, not that hard, but they don’t know that, you know, they don’t, they don’t know. So

2 (37m 37s):
Yeah. Well that’s right. So all that. Well then you’ve got to talk about intention and how much it is, how much of it is politically motivated and religiously motivated and all of that. And I, I have trouble believing that it wasn’t all of the above.

3 (37m 53s):
Oh, I’m sure. It’s yeah. If you just want to get votes and you say, I want to fight sex trafficking, who’s going to

2 (38m 0s):
Foster says, Oh, what a, what a, what a clusterfuck.

3 (38m 6s):
Yeah. Meanwhile, I’ve, I’ve been in a sexual professional for over a decade. And I can’t think of one time I’ve even heard of anyone who was sex trafficked,

2 (38m 18s):
Not on our side of the business. That’s only, it’s only the criminal side and yes, they should. They should deal with criminals. And anybody who’s involved in sex trafficking should be, should go up of, of anyone let alone, under age. People should go to prison for very long periods of time. We all agree on that. Yeah. Everybody

3 (38m 36s):
Agrees. It’s it’s just, so anyway, we need pro us, me and Mary Moody, and you going on Twitter ranting about this and adding congressmen does nothing. Right. And those group texts things where like, Oh, text this number and it will automatically send an email to your congressmen locally that says this, that shit does nothing. It does just as much as someone sending me a Dick pic asking me to book them, it’s literally like,

2 (39m 8s):

3 (39m 9s):
Well, you know, it just, it hits my inbox. I, I see it skip over. I move on to the next thing. Cause I don’t have time to be alert. Oh, let me learn more about this Dick pic. And you know, w what’s this and I’m like, no, I don’t have time for that shit. Senators, congressmen don’t have time for that shit. There’s some staff member. Yeah. Just Mark it as red moves on. So we need a lobbyist in there. Who’s professionally connected to these people who goes golfing with them and goes on. Every vacant. My dad actually is a lot, was a lobbyist till I retired. My brother is a lobbyist. He owns a lobbying firm that the people they go on vacation with and they hang out with their friends are the people that need to be talked to. So that’s how it works. You get, you pay those people. So, so we need about 10 K a month is what it looks like.

3 (39m 52s):
And, and, and the truth is if performers don’t kick up the money, mind geek will, but that’s not what, man. We don’t want them calling the shot. Cause they’re going to do, it’s no hating on my geek, but they’re going to do what’s best for them. We want every voice in the industry of all types represented,

2 (40m 13s):
Whatever money everybody puts in, you know, it could be a small amount of money would you know? Yeah.

3 (40m 23s):
It’s really, I can think of, I can, I can think of 50 people who could cover it on their own, who are just performers. Yeah, totally. Just performers, not accompany. Right. And so it’s, that’s what we are going for and it will get there. It said they were trying to do the same shit with panel to support unrelated, just it’s it’s you can’t be mad at patentable sport. They do such a good job. And that is currently funded by like, like I’m a bronze sponsor, but whatever. There’s two levels above that. And they’re all really, really big poor companies.

2 (40m 58s):
We are too. We are too, by the way.

3 (41m 1s):
Oh, cool. Good for you. That’s awesome. Yeah. And that good for you. And that’s what we need more of is people like us telling other people on our level and below financially where we can say, Hey, you’re doing pretty well. Like you’re kind of killing it. You know, he just bought a new car, got a new house. Do you think you can afford like 500 bucks throwing that at sport? Yeah. Sounds like a lot. But compared to like, how much did you spend on Amazon last night before you went to bed? And do you remember what you bought? No. You know, like

2 (41m 29s):
Funny, funny story, funny story. I get a lot of things sent to the States and my friend sends a big box every once in awhile and half the stuff I look at it and I go, Oh shit. I did order that. Didn’t I,

3 (41m 40s):
Oh man. All the time we, yeah, we burn cardboard at our house cause we don’t have a, I wish we could recycle. We just, no one comes and picks it up and long story. It just doesn’t work here. So I know it’s not like it’s like bad for the environment, but we’re I’m word Vegas and fuck it. So I, sorry. Yeah. So we just got a fire pit in the backyard and if it weren’t for that, we would have a garage full of cardboard boxes everyday. I mean, it’s crazy how much shit will

2 (42m 9s):
And they’re all and they’re always too big with too much padding. So you mentioned a pineapple support and then that leads into my next question. What does that sponsorship mean to you and why make that investment?

3 (42m 25s):
Well, it’s like I said, I just kind of want to, not that I’m like think of it. I’m not a leader at all. I suck at leading people, but I, if I can do it, I think maybe, hopefully it doesn’t other people might say shit, my aunt’s is a fucking bronze sponsor. Gamma is a proud sponsor. I mean the there’s five gamma entities that are all Brown sponsors. So really that’s like funny, but you know, maybe like people start taking some responsibility for industry and just saying, Hey, well shit, Lance can do it. Maybe I could put in bronze sponsors like 10, 10 K a year. I think so that’s less than a thousand a month, you know? And the, the level that people are making money these days, Holy shit, dude, come on for only 500 a month or 2000 a month.

3 (43m 12s):
Like it are. If you look at Twitter for five seconds, you can see our industry is in a desperate need for mental health help. That’d be, we’re like it every day. You can’t scroll get, do one flick on her phone through, through the main porn, Twitter feed without seeing somebody melting down or having some kind of an issue that, and you know, myself too, I’ve had mental health issues. My up until first half of my life, I was so fucked up in the head guy, all kinds of fucking official disorders labeled on me. I mean, just as bad as

2 (43m 47s):
Everyday join the club. Oh yeah.

3 (43m 50s):
Yeah. I mean it was, I thought it was going to have to be on these pills for the rest of my life. And it was any psychotic, suck, kill your sex, drive your bipolar. But you know, it’s funny. They didn’t give me that one day I was a schizophrenia BPD add epilepsy, which isn’t really a mental disorder, but I have like outrageous staff seizures and it stops and shit and just weird depression and anxiety, like whatever, you know? But I, I had a work crew it’s it’s like a grind two years of work, just maintenance, just doing mental health tasks with help from good people.

3 (44m 30s):
And, and it’s doable, man, any, I mean different level, like, yeah, I’m still a little nuts and different people are going to get certain levels better. But if

2 (44m 39s):
You’re good nuts,

3 (44m 41s):
I feel like, you know, a very passable is saying, I think like I hide it very well. I’m like, you know, people don’t know fucking crazy. My wife knows because she hears we live together. So she’s like,

2 (44m 53s):
Sounds like, sounds like, yeah, it sounds like my wife and I, yeah.

3 (44m 59s):
Like, Oh, maybe you should sing more in the shower. And I’m like, I wasn’t sick. I was having a conversation with someone in the third grade. Like, like I was talking, it was, I need to finish that conversation by the way, we need to keep talking to them.

2 (45m 11s):
That’s good. They do the schizophrenia schizophrenia, several loan. Keep that in mind.

3 (45m 15s):
Yeah. Yeah. We’re never loved. Yeah. It’s I’m always, yeah. So, but a TA I’m talking to someone from the future right now, baby. I need to finish this. You know, that’s, it’s crazy, but, but very passable, but that I just, I had man, we, it w it pineapple sport is they did such a good job of like, Holy shit, here’s a solution. You know, we’ll round up all the good tracks in the world. We’ll get it to work at a discount. We’ll subsidize it. We’ll connect you to them. If you don’t like the one you’re working with Skype with a different one until you find one you like, and then start the work, get, get the work done. That’s awesome. So we need to throw money at them cause they’re there. And they, the truth is people don’t know, they’re not, they need money.

3 (45m 58s):
They’re actually not.

2 (45m 59s):
That’s why we sponsored. That’s why we sponsored. Yeah. You’re doing a contest for them. Right.

3 (46m 5s):
So we’re doing, and they’re not getting money from this one, but it’s more to just get awareness going. The deal is I’m just on the hook for a MacBook pro. I got to buy someone like a $2,000 MacBook pro. So that’s like my contribution and two trophies. So I went back on the trophies. I got like the whatever society awards, when the ones like the Grammy’s are made of, you know, so I got some nice fucking nice trophy. So, so anybody, any sex worker makes a zoom call, recorded zoom call with another sex worker and teaches them something of value, like how to film better, how to light better. Do your makeup better budget, better build for retirement, better book clients together.

3 (46m 48s):
Like I tell people be real like, Hey, we’re all hookers. Like, how do you screen your clients? Like how do you do that safely? You know, like literally anything. And if that’s the best video of, you know, their pairs, so the best video wins and the newer person that got taught something gets a laptop and they both get a shiny trophy. And I figured if you’re like a veteran performer who’s rich and doing well, you kind of just want a trophy at this point, you can buy your own fucking laptop, you know, to be, but if you’re new, a laptop can be a game changer. You know, there’s a lot of people starting out on sex, work on these platforms and this and that.

3 (47m 28s):
And all they have is the phone. Yeah. And thank God they’ve got a phone and that’s super cool. You can record on your phone, but when you can start monkeying around with spreadsheets and hard drives and saving content and all that, I mean, you just really, your game goes up quite a bit. Absolutely paperwork model releases, all that. Like you just, you need a fucking computer. And a lot of people don’t have, you know, they go buy a $400 piece of shit at best buy and it gets a buy, but they can’t render on it because it’s too small or breaks. So, you know? Yeah. So they need like, you know, the big daddy Mac book that you can get it done with the new Mac book. I mean, it’s not, it’s not a super computer, but you can, you can fucking render 4k on it.

3 (48m 9s):
So it’ll work. So that’s the plan.

1 (48m 13s):
What are your plans in the near future as far as growing?

3 (48m 18s):
Well, those sites Madden, you know, bad fathers GP site, I want to get diked down. W want to shoot a couple of features, have Nikki shoot, a couple of features that are kind of, you know, DVDs and all that kinda shit grow at Ts. Just grow it out, get the affiliate network even more pent out. I mean, I got to, I hired a great guy. He used to work at gamma for a long time and he’s helping me run it and he’s fucking awesome. So we’re, you know, we’re leveling it up. That is, I mean, you know, right now I think if I sold my two years gross would be a million and a half or something like that. So I want to get that number to, you know, 10 or 20.

3 (49m 0s):
That’d be cool. You know, so yeah,

1 (49m 2s):
We’re ready. Okay. We’re ready when you are my friend.

3 (49m 5s):
Well, good. Well good. And hopefully there’s still someone to buy it at that point, but you know, that’s, that’s, the goal is grow it out and, or keep it forever and just let it hire a good staff, people that run themselves. So right now I’m just kind of collecting people that used to work at gamma or mind geek who know the back end shit, you know, traffic and advertising and marketing, people know all that math and all that stuff and good directors and looking for good. And when I say good director, I don’t mean, Oh, you want to know a bunch of awards. I mean like, no, you treat performers well and you manage the money well, and you can run a shoot and nobody gets hurt and everybody’s happy.

3 (49m 47s):
And you know, I, I’m not looking to necessarily bring people on as like full-time Provet directors, but I want to send them regular shoots like monthly, Hey, can you do these four scenes for me, this Mark? And just cause there’s, there’s people out there who do that kind of journeyman directors, a journey, woman, journey, people. I don’t know how you say that. Right. They do, you know, they worked for a bunch of companies, so I’m just kind of collect those and, and getting I’d like to get it right now. It’s I can do everything I need to do for prove out and about three days in a month then, and just kind of touch it every day. Every other, I like to get it to work.

3 (50m 29s):
I have a CEO that runs it for me. That’d be great. But for now I’m still working on it. You know what I mean? So

1 (50m 36s):
That’s, that sounds good. Now, are you still performing much?

3 (50m 39s):
Yeah. I mean, I’m like jumping in the ones I want to be in lately. I’m just such a bottom is a thing I’m like really just want to get fucked in the butt. And I’m like super savvy lately, which everything goes in phases like a year ago. It was like, I don’t really want to get fucked up, but now I’m like stepping on my balls, put me a chance to do fuck me in the ass. Humiliated me. This is great. So I’m doing like sweet femdom. I’m jumping in a lot of scenes because that’s, what’s because I want to, and I can do it well, you know what I mean? And then by fuck jumping in some of those scenes, but, and then I’m doing like Casey Calvert has been a less cinema thing or like a big, big feature. So I’m trying to just, maybe this year, just do a handful of things, just exposure wise.

3 (51m 23s):
And cause I like Casey felt like being around her, which is great or a brand or just, they’re cool to be around and kind of people like if I spend two days with them, I’ll I’ll learn something for sure. And so I’m taking those gigs, but for the most part, not really. I mean only fans. Yeah. Everybody. I even jumped on the Olympian shit. So now I got Opry, Kate and I are gonna fuck tomorrow in a hotel, but that’s like, I don’t even call that performing really. That’s just like meeting up with friends and fucking and filming it. You know? Sounds like, sounds like fun. Yeah. It’s a hoot.

1 (52m 1s):
Well, Hey Lance, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on adult site broker tuck, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do part three of our ongoing conversation really

3 (52m 12s):
Soon. My

1 (52m 14s):
Broker tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit. If you’re going to be making payments, payments are done about half the time. These days, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow. Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for us grows. There are from out of Washington DC and know they’re not paying me to say this.

1 (52m 55s):
I just use them, trust them. And I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a customer escrow, or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed. It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there is still some information you need to find out prior to the deal, closing your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this.

1 (53m 38s):
And it’s on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition, or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions. This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to adult star and author Coralyn Jewel.

0 (54m 13s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Lance Hart. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (8s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry veteran, Robert Warren. First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.

1 (37s):
Satisfy S announced the launch of an Instagram campaign, celebrating international women’s day to run through March 14th. As part of the promo, the company is using the hashtag choose to challenge and calling upon users across the world to add their own words, to the statement, sexual freedom and powers me to the company has also tapping into a range of influencers and activists in the Czech Republic, Germany, Spain, France, Poland, Portugal, and the U S according to the company, the campaign builds upon satisfiers goal to celebrate human sexuality and empower individuals.

1 (1m 17s):
Smuttyfy.com has launched the new improved version of the social network, bringing users a much better experience and responsiveness along with an increase in speed. An average of seven to 10 times faster. Spotify has introduced many new features into the social network stories profile, visit notifications, pages and groups, cover profile and background pictures, improved user privacy and event calendar, live chat, multi-language functionality, verified profiles and pages and ad network and pro profiles. Starting tomorrow. Pineapple support will begin a six week course on addiction.

1 (1m 59s):
A journey to recovery. This will be happening every Thursday for six weeks at 1:00 PM Eastern time. It’s a support group for those struggling. With substance abuse, this group will be focused on identifying triggers and coping mechanisms to help members maintain long-term sobriety and prevent relapse. The course is provided by Rachel Farina pineapple support. We’ll also provide a weekly motivational support group for performers and producers. This meeting will be for one and a half hours on Mondays at 7:00 PM. Eastern time. This group will be facilitated by two rotating pineapple support counselors, Nikki line, and Jasmine Johnson.

1 (2m 43s):
It’s meant to be a safe place to express issues or problems. An individual may be having in their life at the time, and to find additional support. This is a drop-in group. So there is not a requirement to stay for a certain number of weeks or sessions. The group is open to all adult industry professionals. Adult site broker is a proud sponsor of pineapple support. Let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale. That adult site broke. Sure. We are proud to be offering a rapidly growing hair. Shaving site. This site shows women getting their heads shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it’s much easier to promote than most adults sites.

1 (3m 25s):
The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they’re getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site that is a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation. It handles the billing and rebilling user information and video displays. There is also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales. The first month alone, there is no paid advertising. They go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos, and social media.

1 (4m 10s):
The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They will donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. The site is getting an 80% retention rate month over month. It also has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars. There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview.

1 (4m 50s):
My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Robert Warren, the chief program director of my cam match. Robert, thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk. No, my pleasure. My pleasure indeed. Now Robert is a 28 year veteran or the adult industry he’s been providing long time professionalism and service as a mentor and moderator on some highly respected webmaster boards. He’s also has a long and varied resume in our space. Robert has also spoken at a variety of seminars throughout the years. Written numerous articles appeared on radio programs and has had many articles written about him. Robert AKA, the legacy has from the beginning mentor to variety of people, both industry reps, or companies who are just starting out.

1 (5m 38s):
They’ve contacted Robert for guidance and information to assist them along the way to success. Many owners and successful individuals today. Ow, many of their achievements to Robert. And I got to say that Robert was one of the most helpful people to me when I first start got first started in this business.

2 (5m 58s):
Easy for me to say my, my pleasure, bro. Easy for me to say at this hour now, Robert, how did you choose the legacy as a nickname?

3 (6m 8s):
Well, first off, thank you very much for the introduction. I mean, God, I feel old

2 (6m 16s):
Aren’t we both

3 (6m 18s):
It’s like listening to my obituary right now. Well, I am turning 60 next month and Oh my God. Yeah, I know. Hey, I got three on, I got three on your bro. You really cool. So, but during my, my time prior to the adult industry, I actually was in the seminary for about seven years and I’m about a half year away from my masters still. And so I was in my mid twenties. And what happened back then is I had a really wicked and sharp, sarcastic tone about me even I can imagine in seminary how that went over, but I remember sitting down at a lunch table and there was this girl there.

3 (7m 13s):
I still remember to this day, her name, I won’t say it. Come on. Well, our first name was Anne. So while we were there, I was using my repertoire and just cutting her up like crazy. And everybody was laughing and everything. And then after lunch, I was heading for my first class and I got there early and she was sitting in the classroom and she was just bawling her eyes out. And I remember I sat down beside her and I was like, what’s, what’s what’s wrong. And she finally admitted that what I said to her really hit hard and, and it hurt her.

3 (7m 54s):
And just the visual image that my words could do that to somebody really struck home. And I swore from that moment on that, I would use my words to build up into help and to, and to make somebody, you know, th that when people leave me that they’re better than when they first came to me and that I would want to leave a legacy of that to people. So when I started on why not a board? I don’t know if I can say that when I started back then somebody said, you know, well, you’ve got to create a catchy name. And so that immediately came to my mind that when I get into this industry and when I start, I want to be able to help people.

3 (8m 40s):
I want to be able to build up and use my words to make their lives better. So I want to leave a legacy of positiveness and, and wisdom to other people if I can give that. So that’s where I came up with the legacy. Cool.

2 (8m 58s):
Now you mentioned you’re soon going to be 60 so young, and that means you’ve been in the adult industry almost half your life. Doesn’t feel like it

3 (9m 10s):
Is it,

2 (9m 11s):
Is it true that before entering the adult industry, you mentioned seminary, you were a pastor and a gospel singer, so you took it to the max there. So, so what I mean, what, what caused the transformation?

3 (9m 25s):
The actual moment of transformation is when I was actually preaching one day and I looked over and I, in my mind, I said, who the hell am I to be talking to these people? You know, like I’ve never lived a life that I would consider that I could even give any wisdom or whatever.

2 (9m 42s):
Hey, Robert is Robert. It doesn’t stop shelling Coles in the States.

3 (9m 48s):
Yeah. And, and also there’s something else that was inside me that saying you’re meant for something different than this. So I left, as I said, a half year away from my masters and I left and I started quite honestly, I started working and I created an advertising firm in Toronto called in your face media, which then kind of moved towards creating adult stuff. And then I started working with Python. Yeah.

3 (10m 28s):
And went back then even, they were like, you know, this is what you did, but what I, well, what this, if anything has taught me is that, especially in this industry is that you need is, is I treat people with respect and with kindness to everybody. And I look at it this way and I said this to many people, you know, it’s like, I don’t see anybody is any better than me or worse than me. And if you think that you’re better, I’m going to knock you down. If you think you’re worse, I’m going to pull you up and help you. Nice. And if you think that we’re the same, then you and I are going to be friends and I’ve kind of done that.

3 (11m 10s):
And it’s going to help me to be the person I am. I mean, after this many years, and I think I’m pretty much one of the longest, yeah, I’ve never done a poll, but after all these years, I can’t really think of anybody that I would say is my enemy.

2 (11m 25s):
You’re one of, you’re one of the longest, that’s still alive.

3 (11m 30s):
Well, let’s stop push that thought, but I even as a set, but after all these years, I don’t have any enemies. And that’s something to be said, especially in this industry, because when you’re on webmaster boards as well, there’s always fighting and bickering and problems and things like that. And, and I tried to lead with, you know, just helping people out and growing and being an example of, of, of what people should be. And I, and I don’t just think of business. I think about people too, this industry, people say, you know, a Hocking, you work in it for so long.

3 (12m 13s):
And it’s like, the question really is, is how can you be with your family for this long, you know, because these people are my family. And I feel it when somebody leaves. And I feel that when somebody dies in this family and you know that as well, I feel people’s pain and, and I feel their success as well. And I’m, I’m so thankful that I’ve been at least able to help people become better at their jobs and give them any type of assistance whatsoever, because it just, it helps the whole industry grow to be, to be better when you have good people.

3 (12m 59s):
They’re not, not just your people that go down to the trade shows and get drunk and do whatever stuff they shouldn’t do, but to have some type of a, of a good reputation and, and do business. Right. And I think that’s kind of what helps, what helped me is just develop that type of character.

2 (13m 22s):
No, you’re a family man with a wife and five kids. Wow. Wow. Now, how do you balance your home life with working in the adult industry? And does your family know what you do? They must by now? Not everybody. I mean,

3 (13m 41s):
My, my dad won. I mean, he was, he passed away a little over a year ago and I remember telling him a while back, and this is a very deep spiritual religious man Baptist. And he just kinda looked at me and it was more like, well, you don’t actually produce or are in any of the stuff, are you? And I was like, are you kidding me? Look at me. And I said, I’m on the executive level. I’m, you know, I help make the decisions. I do the marketing and all that stuff. And he was like, okay. So, you know, you’re not really part of it. And he goes, I guess it’s kind of like just going into a seven 11 or grocery store and there’s magazines on the shelf doesn’t mean that the guy behind the counter and the cashier is a porn, you know, a bird or something like that.

2 (14m 32s):
It was just, he was, he was justifying it to himself. Robert.

3 (14m 36s):
Yeah, that’s probably true. But I got to at least admit that he took it well and he was supportive and, you know, we never really talked much about it back after that. Obviously my wife know, my kids know all they know, you know, cause they’re too young. And so they just know that dad’s on the computer and he knows how to do stuff. And it scares the crap out of them because I know more than them on the computer and it should be the other way around. Yeah. Yeah. So my son, especially, he’s like, you know, how did you find that out about me? Or, you know, I’ll, I’ll pull something out or also, you know, I type into Dawson.

3 (15m 17s):
I figured out the pro. And so I send him a message on his computer. I was like, how the hell did you do that? So stick with me kid. Yeah. But as I said, people do know about it. I’m not ashamed of it. I mean, I’m not ashamed of my family and its product, like any other. And you know, if you’re not proud of what you do, then you’re ashamed. And if you’re ashamed, why yeah. You know, you don’t want people like that around you. I mean, if they’re constantly looking at you negatively, then why bother you’re life is too short to be having, you know, being, being scared of what other people think about you be yourself.

3 (15m 59s):
And if people can’t handle the truth and they shouldn’t really be your friends and

2 (16m 4s):
It’s a wonderful industry, as you said, the people are wonderful. I say the same thing. It’s my family, the events are like family reunions. So yeah. Yeah. If you, if you can’t like this industry, I don’t know if you can like an industry now you were around in the early days of our industry, you must have some wild convention war stories from the past. I’d love to hear.

3 (16m 29s):
Well, I started in the early nineties and I remember, and I just told you this a short time ago and I was being interviewed on CPC in Canada. And they asked me a similar question. And I could tell that the audience, which was actually, there’s a percentage of them that was in the adult industry, from Canada, listening in and you know, people love to hear stories that are going on. And so I remember telling them right off the bat, I said, you know, imagine going to Vegas and you see, you know, and you’re, you’re a tourist and you see all the wonderful flashing and blinking lights and the light shows going on and the whole thing, and everybody’s going <inaudible> it was like, the good announcer was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

3 (17m 19s):
And I said, okay, so you’ve got all of these tourists running around, snapping pictures of the lights and the trade and all that stuff going on said, now imagine you’re the poor bastardize to go around and change all the light bulbs. That’s me. There comes a point in time when you don’t even want to see another light bulb mush. Let’s talk about a light bulb.

2 (17m 40s):
I’m so over I’m so over Vegas.

3 (17m 43s):
Yeah. So yeah, I mean, there was, there was a time I remember a long time ago and is still, is about, on some of the boards where there was a cam company that wanted to expand. And I told them, I said, if you just let me do what I have to do, I’ll guarantee you in three months that everybody will talk about you. So I found a guy that was the most hated on the boards. And I offered for him to come up to Toronto and we found Landy Barbie, who’s working with vivid, absolutely stunning girl. And we told them, it’s like, you get here, we’ll dress you up.

3 (18m 23s):
And you can basically fucker. And if you can do the money shot, then there you go. And I’ll set you up with in the, in, in an actual movie. But if you can’t, then she’s going to take a strap on and fuck you up the ass. Oh my God. And that’s the deal.

2 (18m 45s):
I have a, I have a feeling, I have a feeling, I know how this came out.

3 (18m 49s):
You got it. Yeah. You know exactly where this is going. Well, sure enough. He got up there and couldn’t do it. I even had five girls around him, you know, for motivation. And I mean, does, if Lonnie Barbie wasn’t enough and sure enough, he couldn’t do it. And prior to that, I had him on radio shows and all that stuff. He was talking to Ron, Jeremy and Jenna Jameson, and all these people I had arranged with, with some people to do that. And we were giving them advice and the whole thing built a write up the owners. They were like, you know, no matter where they went from the airport to Vegas, that’s all that they talked about was the show.

3 (19m 29s):
And he couldn’t get it up and years after that, you know, he still blames me for setting him up for it. Okay. I got to know who this is, what his name? Laurence Connor. I remember that name. Yeah. Yeah. You would. Because that’s what I mean. And that, that happened probably about 15, 17 years ago. And you still remember the name?

2 (19m 53s):
I thought it might be. I thought it might be bad dog or something.

3 (19m 59s):
Yeah. He’s a great man.

2 (20m 1s):
That makes one of us. But anyway, go ahead.

3 (20m 5s):
The actual memory I have is I was personally invited to go to the Playboy manager when I was out in LA. I didn’t have a ticket. And I remember the one that people came out to you and said, it wouldn’t be the same if you weren’t there. So I got there and it was, it was wonderful there, Martina Warren, who’s an absolutely stunning woman. We apparently have. We had the same last name and she was sick and tired of getting harassed. So then we went around telling each other, telling other people that we were husband and wife. And so people would back off for her.

3 (20m 45s):
And so she was my American wife at the time. Oh God. And we went to the mansion together and I played on, I played on half stable. I met half himself. And then later on in the evening, Mark, from too much that we just talked about him. And I sat out on the front steps of the Playboy mansion, smoking weed. Why not? And to me, that is just, just sticks in my mind.

2 (21m 18s):
That’s a good one. That’s a good one. That’s a good one. They start, they stopped doing the Playboy tour of course, a few years ago when they sold the mansion. And I went to my first Dell, I went to my first ever LA show. Last January. I had I being in this wonderful weather in Thailand. I’m not too motivated to come out for winter shows, but this year, last year I did. And I’m like, but I got to, I got to tour Playboy. And that was kind of fun.

3 (21m 49s):
That’s really cool. It is a great place. I had a lot of fun, although there was a lot of crazy stuff going on. I mean, this is the fun thing. Mark was noticing that there is these whole bunch of Playboy models all standing around me. And I had my phone out and there was a bunch of guys that, you know, obviously there, you know, guys who are just like so shy of talking to beautiful women and I’m sitting there, I got like five girls around me or something like that. And they’re going, what is, what is the legacy doing that? He’s got all these girls running them and Mark just kinda sneaks up and looks over my shoulder. And he’s, he sees me sitting there showing the girls, my, my family photos.

3 (22m 31s):
Oh yeah. I’m talking about my kids and they’re all going. Oh,

2 (22m 35s):
Oh, of course. Oh, look it. Look, if you want to, if you want, if you, if you want to appeal to two to women, show them, show them kids and show them pets. That’s that’s what you do. Yes. Yes. Well, we got it. We got a big family of four doggies as you well know. So there are several companies out there that you help put on the map. Why didn’t you leave those companies and start your own consulting firm?

3 (23m 6s):
That’s a very good question. I know. That’s why I asked it. That’s why you asked it. They’re the companies that are out there that I’ve helped. There’s different types of companies in this industry, any industry, as you know, there’s the account-based company, which is basically a company that’s run by accountants. Right. And everything is know penny pinching. You know, you can’t spend on anything. You got to do everything for free. And then they bitch at you because you know, why isn’t this happening faster? And in that type of environment, creativity.ice, because just being cheap, you know, it’s always the cheapest or nothing.

3 (23m 53s):
Then there’s the micromanaged based companies where, you know, the, the guys sitting there or the girl, what whoever is just like right over you and they’re micromanaging every part of you. And that shows a level of mistrust. Yeah. And it’s, to me, it’s kind of like, well, if you, if you hire this person and you don’t trust them to do their job, then why, then, then it’s your fault for hiring people that you don’t

2 (24m 23s):
Well, that’s, that’s also a personality deficit of some, some people that are just super controlling and type a personalities. Yeah. Well, I’m type a, but I’m not controlling, but there you go. Yeah.

3 (24m 36s):
In that particular situation, again, creativity dies because anytime you bring up something, bam, you know, it’s just micromanaged. It’s not their idea. Yeah, exactly. Then you’ve got like the self-absorbed sexually based company where the creativity dies. If the ideas don’t come from the boss and you’re useless. And then there are other situations, unfortunately, where it’s like, if you don’t sleep with a boss, you’re fired, you know, and I’ve seen that. And I don’t know. I hope you haven’t, but you have you’ll know what I’m talking about.

2 (25m 16s):
No, not really.

3 (25m 18s):
I see in situations where girls who’ve gone down to, let’s say Florida wherever, and if they didn’t, then they didn’t get their passport or the ticket to go back home and people had to scurry around and collect money to be able to send them back home.

2 (25m 32s):
You’re talking about models. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

3 (25m 35s):
So not just models, I’m talking about actual sales reps. Yeah.

2 (25m 41s):
Oh, sure, sure. No, obviously that stuff goes on. No two ways about it.

3 (25m 47s):
Yeah. And, and so if anybody, like, for example becomes in the, in the limelight and it looks as though, you know, that’s kind of what you want is you want a person who’s, they’re going to be the spokesperson for the company, especially when you’re on a message forever. And you know, you associate that person with that company. Well, if the boss is so self-absorbed that they don’t like it when somebody else is there, because then it’s like, well, you know, if the, then, then it’s going to like volatile because then, Oh, well that person’s just going to start demanding more money because without them, the company is going to fail.

3 (26m 28s):
So then they let them go, whatever. So that’s kind of, that’s another type of company. Then there’s the BFF based company where the boss just hires as best buddies, family, the whole thing. And you know, you come in and if you’re not part of that group, then you know, you’re, you’re on an outcast all the time and career creativity on that situation dies because, you know, you’re not one of the boys kind of a thing. Sure. And that really can hurt. And then, and then there’s something I call the reverse pyramid based company where normally companies are structured where the ownership is at the top and everybody falls down below.

3 (27m 19s):
But if you can actually switch that over and have it so that the, the ownership is helping and serving and giving the tools that are needed to the base, then that is what is the best thing, because then everybody wins, but it’s too rare. Yeah. And you know, a good manager serves and not, and does not dictate to employees. And I, I don’t know how else to say it. I mean, I’ve always told people, you know, it’s like, how do you manage these?

3 (28m 2s):
People’s like a good man, a good manager or management happens when you’re not there. Yeah. If you can train them well enough and giving them the tools and the abilities you shouldn’t, you could walk away for, let’s say a trade show and know that the company is going to run and the decisions will be made the proper way and you shouldn’t have to worry, but that doesn’t happen all the time. And you know that right. And you know, you got, you need to be part of a place where each employee is a valued member of a team. And so,

2 (28m 38s):
So you’ve been in the industry obviously for a long time. Do you have any mentors or in addition to that, anyone you’d like to meet that you haven’t,

3 (28m 50s):
As far as mentors they’ve either died or left?

2 (28m 54s):
Well, you can, you can, you can mention them.

3 (28m 57s):
Yeah, no, there, when I first started out, I mean, yeah, there was Bob rice and a few others that were, that were my mentors. And nowadays I really, it’s not that I don’t have a men. I know I really don’t have any mentors that helped me along. But anytime that I’m with a place it’s, it’s more of, I tell them right off the bat, it’s not that I know everything about the industry, but I sure as hell know the people who do yup. And the key is networking. And if you can network yourself out and know the people, then you can, if you’re stuck in a situation, you can call somebody up and it’s like, Hey, you know, I need some help with this or that.

3 (29m 44s):
And give it to you, which is very rare in the cult when it comes to business. I mean, we’re asking you sit there and call up a competitor or somebody from another company’s like, Hey, could you help me out? That’s where the family comes in. So yeah, I’ve got people that I can, that I call up, like rock hard and you know, others where, you know, in Mark as well that I talked to where I can just sit there and say, Hey, can you know, I, I need a little help in this area just to kind of clarify something. But as far as a mentor, no, I they’ve. They’ve either passed away or, or just aren’t in the industry anymore.

3 (30m 27s):
The people that I’d like to meet the, you know, even back then, I’ve pretty much met everybody that I would want to meet today. I would say that there’s one model and this is going to sound really strange. I don’t get, I’m not hooked on models or anything like that. I don’t watch a lot, but there’s one person who I think when they do their show or they do their, their clips or whatever, they’re so believable. And that’s, that’s somebody called Zev bell-ringer and I just, I, whenever I’ve seen anything of her, you just feel as though you’re right there, you know, like she really does POV and everything extremely well.

3 (31m 15s):
And I think Jean she’d be the only person that I would want to meet just to be able to say good job.

2 (31m 23s):
So she really rings. So you’re saying she really rings your bell. Huh? How could I not come on? How could I, not now there’s a lot of talk right now about the legal issues with many tube sites, namely porn hub that New York times column by Christoph was a pretty devastating. And obviously how it affects the industry. There’s been, I, I saw notes from that Canadian parliament joke of a situation the other day. Now over the years, I’m sure you’ve seen highs and lows. Can you comment a little more on the past and where you see the industry?

3 (32m 6s):
Yeah. This situation with poor home PornHub and in all of the other tubes, it’s kind of a, it’s kind of getting an adjustment readjusting. The, the way porn is looked at on the net. I mean, we’ve had a lot of ups and downs over the years. I remember when I bill screwing up and people were losing money, like crazy and a whole bunch of other things. And then even when tube started coming into the, or was like, well, porn is dead now. Right.

2 (32m 42s):
Remember the whole, wherever the whole, the whole passport explosion. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.

3 (32m 47s):
I mean, it’s just, it’s almost as though every year, every other year, there’s something out there that it’s like, well, we’re all gonna die now. You know, porn’s going to die. Yeah,

2 (32m 58s):
No, no, no. Never

3 (33m 1s):
The companies that are creative. And that’s what I keep. I went back to that list of the various companies and how it relates to creativity because the companies that survive are the ones that allow creativity rather than just copying other companies. Yes. And that happens so, so much, you know, somebody gets a great idea, they do it. And then everybody else, just because they don’t have creativity, they just steal their idea and do it on theirs. And then everybody sits around and waits a long time ago. It was, you know, what people were asking me, what’s the next thing in, in the adult thing.

3 (33m 44s):
And it was like, well, you know, we’ve kind of reached our limit because we’ve gone beyond technology. And until technology can catch up to us, we’re going to be stale. You know, we’re just going to be, you know, basically standing around, waiting for them to, to catch up. And then, and then we can move ahead together. I think that’s happening now because I mean, even talking about Elon Musk and everybody trying to implant chips into our head and getting technology a different way and being able to see a virtual, virtual reality in a totally different way.

3 (34m 25s):
So very similar to the matrix. Right. And that’s not too far away. I mean, he wants to do those chips in a year and they’re available. So if we can create, remember the movie brainstorm from in the eighties, I do not. Okay. It’s a movie, it’s a movie about where somebody puts on this head gear and you can actually copy somebody’s visual and feelings in it. And somebody created a porn movie and it was on it like just, you know, on the side. But the whole premise of the movie was, you know, somebody died, they had the helmet on and then you could take a trip and see what they saw when they died, brilliant movie.

3 (35m 8s):
But that type of technology where you can actually sense and feel what’s happening is going to be coming up. That’s going to be the big boost as far as for the industry itself in the past. Yeah. I mean, we all bitched and complained when tube started coming out. And at that time I started telling people, it’s like, you know what, adapt, this is, use it to your

2 (35m 33s):
Advantage after Diane many died.

3 (35m 36s):
Yeah. Many and the ones who adopted, well, guess what, everybody started putting banners on it and started uploading their videos. And guess what, that’s now you look and it’s like, the majority of their traffic comes from tube sites, PornHub premium, you know, and do very well with that. Yeah. It, it, it didn’t, it, it really hurt the people that had solo sites, but there was this massive flood of, of, of that. Plus there’s an increase of webcams too. But now, now that something’s happening to the tube sites, now everybody’s scrambling around going, what do we do?

3 (36m 17s):
And it’s like, well, how bout what happened before tube sites? Were there

2 (36m 23s):
Be creative, be creative? I always tell people, be creative, come up, do something that’s better than everybody else. And you’ll succeed. And really it’s the same advice you should give people in any business.

3 (36m 35s):
Exactly. And that’s, and that’s the problem is that, you know, if somebody’s not being creative or if somebody falls into those categories before, and this goes back, I think originally I hope I answered your question as to why was leaving certain companies. It was either because I had finished what I felt as though I needed to be done or two, they were part of one of those kind of companies. And it was just, I can’t move on with that. Or three, the creativity was so dead that I just would have been just another.in the flock and I couldn’t take it anywhere. So why bother? You know, I’m just not going to sit there and collect a paycheck for doing nothing.

2 (37m 16s):
That’s why I don’t work for, that’s why I don’t work for anybody buddy now. And I know you’ve done your share consulting as well, and that that’s been your main thing for a long time now. I’m sure somebody like you receives lots of job offers, and it’s probably going to give me a similar answer, but how do you decide which ones to take?

3 (37m 39s):
I remember, I remember back in December, I had like five or six offers. If I can see the potential, if I can visualize the potential of where they can be is one thing. Number two, I look at the type of ownership in the people that I’m working with. If, if they do show themselves as being somebody that I can work with and I feel comfortable with, and they have that type of personality that will grow with success, then that’s good.

3 (38m 24s):
I mean, ultimately at the end of the day, and this is probably because of my age, I mean, family is, is really, really important to me. Sure. And I don’t know how much longer I got in this industry or even from myself, but I have to make sure that the stress level, and I want to be able to enjoy what I’m doing. If I end up where I’m not going to enjoy something, have fun with it, not doing it. I don’t need that anymore. I mean, I was taking jobs back then just to survive

2 (38m 59s):
Now at some point in our life.

3 (39m 1s):
Yeah. And then there comes a point in your life where it’s kind of like, you know what families are important spending time with your kids. I remember somebody, I can’t say his name, but I remember somebody saying he was ready to go on a trip. And then his kid was just like, we never spent any time together. And then they realized that they’re missing out on the kids’ childhood because they’re working so hard. Yeah. And I don’t want to be stressed out and overwhelmed in a negative way because that affects my family and it doesn’t do me any good health wise. Yeah. So if I accept a job, then it’s, it’s something that, you know, all those categories have to fit in place.

3 (39m 49s):
And yeah.

2 (39m 51s):
Great. Now your latest project is my cam match.com. It’s a, yeah. It’s a relatively new company. And maybe you can tell us a little bit more about that and why you chose it.

3 (40m 4s):
Well, that’s, that’s the funny thing, the, the points that I mentioned in the backer were what was here. I’m relatively new being in the past, like year or two, the, the idea of this thing, it’s kind of like a social network for models and for users. And I think one of the reasons why I took it is because it was so unique as like, it was literally one of a kind and I loved the, the creativity. And especially in this industry after, you know, as you mentioned at the beginning that I’ve been around longer for a long period of time.

3 (40m 51s):
I don’t see any companies that break ground. Yeah. Just like, wait a minute. I haven’t, who is your competition? Well, there isn’t any, because it’s never been done. Sure. And I’m like, wow, that, that is what got me right off the bat. So in it models come in, they fill out their profile. Bam. They immediately are introduced or have the ability because there’s the users that are on the site are members of various campsites up to like about 16 or something right.

3 (41m 33s):
Of the top campsites that are out there. Cool. So all these users get in there, there is a rewards program for the users. That’s actually more money than any, than any campsite, you know, a couple of campsites put together and it’s kind of like, you know, your rewards program, like your air miles. So the users come in and they can, they can do a searching on the profiles. So, you know, if you go into a campsite or whatever, and you start doing the surgeon’s gone age or whatever, you’re very limited. And you get, you know, you get a slew of like 80 something pages.

3 (42m 15s):
And it’s really hard to find, you know, you gotta go through all the pages and all the pages and you know, that kind of stuff here, the questioning and the, the, the model, or define the model, it’s much more selective to your tastes because they ask a lot more questions. Sure. So you go through, and then all of a sudden, now there’s a small handful or, or less than that, of models that fit exactly the profile you want, which is great because it was a good time saver. And because these models are on all, a lot of the platforms out there, so you click on one and it could be from gender-based, you click on another, it could be, you know, MyFreeCams, whatever.

3 (43m 2s):
So it’s not like we’re, we’re showing favoritism to any campsite. We’re showing the ism to the girls because the more they fill out on their profile as to what they like, the easier it’s going to be to be able to find a user that spend money on them. This is where it benefits the girls, because the girls are always, you know, they waste a lot of their times talking to guys. And it’s like, after a while, it’s like, Oh, I don’t like that. And then they take off we’re here. It’s like, when you get a user that actually likes what you like, then you have a little bit more of a relationship and a connection, right. Not to mention that the guy’s now got more rewards on top of the money he was already going to spend.

3 (43m 47s):
Hmm. Okay. So that benefits the girls. And we all know that when you’re sitting there and you’re, you’re a cam model, male or female, what is the most important thing that you should be told is develop a relationship with your client, with your user, right. That’s what’s going to make you money is developing relationship. How were, and then how are relationships developed? Well, based upon interests, common interests. So if you have a site that actually has more of the questions that would match up those common interests, then you’re going to have not only a good discussion, somebody that you like, who likes what you like, but you’re also going to have a member who’s probably going to be, you know, a long time member spending a lot more money on you.

3 (44m 46s):
Sure. On the guy side, it’s like, Hey, I like a girl. I got a girl now who likes what I like. And I don’t have to sit there and waste my time three hours going through all these multiple pages and asking questions and sitting in chat rooms and listening to her, having her taking off or 20 minutes to go on a private session or whatever. And then I got to sit around and wait to see as to whether she likes what I like. So it cuts the time down us. And when you do find the person, you like, guess what? You got the reward points. Like, you know, like, as I mentioned before, so it’s, win-win on both sides and with the girls they’re sitting there and if they’re on page 30, you know, they’re not going to get a lot of traffic down there at that level.

3 (45m 38s):
So it’s like, you know, like you had a Twitter and I can go here, you know? And then you got to spend so much time being able to build traffic up. Right? Well, here, the traffic is kind of sitting there because the people that, number one, you’re trying to build a relationship for. You have more connections, but at the same time, you have more users, more traffic now. So that on the site that can book a private session with you. Right, right. On the site. So I can all go here. Okay. I want to have a private one-on-one Benbow boom. Then they can message you. And then two of you can connect and they go to whatever campsite you’re a part of and start spending money.

1 (46m 22s):
Sounds like a plan. Well, Hey, Robert, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest today on adult site, broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again.

3 (46m 32s):
I hope so too. I hope so too. It’s been great talking to you, my friend, and it’s also been great knowing you for so many years, and I applaud you for your success and all of the great work you’re doing to contribute to the family, to the industry. And I’ve really enjoyed my time here with you. I really appreciate it.

1 (46m 53s):
Likewise, my broker tip today is part five of how to buy a website. Last week, we talked about how to determine the value of a website, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement. What should be in it? Well, your attorney will guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint, what is the date you’d like to close? Make sure you know, that you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date, I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. In fact, I’m going through some of that right now with a couple of my deals, make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records, including two, two, five, seven docs software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites.

1 (47m 58s):
Of course it should spell out any payment schedule. If there is one who’s responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow. And there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller situation, this assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your legal representative so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be talking to our first ever returning guest on adult site, broker talk, adult performer, Lance Hart.

0 (48m 40s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Dan Hogue.

Speaker 1 (35s): Adult Site Broker is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details. First of all, today let’s cover some of the news going on in our industry, a Texas Supreme court justice question. Long-standing interpretations of section two 30 liability protections last week, while hearing a case that deliberately tests the exception to the so-called first amendment of the internet that was carved out by foster Acessa.

For alleged instances of human trafficking, the Texas Supreme court is hearing the case after a Harris County district judge and a Houston appellate court rejected Facebook’s argument. That section two 30 explicitly shields online platforms from liability for content posted by third party uploaders lawyers for the three plaintiffs, three women, and only identified as Jane Doe’s who alleged they were victims of human trafficking.

As miners claim that Facebook would be liable under the exception to section two 30 immunity created in 2018 by foster sista. The lawyer is alleged. Facebook is liable because it provided the platform that resulted in there being trafficked legal site law three 60, report it, the accused Facebook of negligence, gross negligence and violations of a Texas anti-trafficking law passed in 2009 law three 60 reported according to the new site, the justices in the Texas Supreme court questioned during oral arguments yesterday, whether section two 30 is applicable.

If the allegation is that Facebook provided an unrestricted platform for predators to exploit extort and recruit children into the sex trade tech to Supreme court justice. Debra Lurman a Republican took aim at section two 30 protections when questioning Facebook’s immunity, because it may have failed to warn users of the dangers of sex trafficking. One of the Jane Doe’s allegations Lerman highlighted during her questioning of Facebook’s is not about the published statement, but about the failure of the company to warn that this could load this could lead to violent sexual behavior, a lawyer for the Jane Doe’s Warren Harris also cited an October, 2020 descent from Supreme court justice, Clarence Thomas in the malware bytes versus enigma software group case Thomas surprised legal observers by using that dissent to openly criticize section two 30 an advocate for his reform, a militant active judicial advocacy from the highest bench that inserted the justice into an ongoing debate.

That is the constitutional purpose

Speaker 2 (3m 41s): of the legislative branch democratic

Speaker 1 (3m 46s): Us representative RO Khan of California

Speaker 2 (3m 49s): Has announced he is playing

Speaker 1 (3m 50s): To reintroduce a bill to study the effects that foster assess their legislation has had on sex workers, safety rights and issues. Connor told the Capitol Hills new site, the roll call that the bill, which he first introduced during the last Congress and was supported by Elizabeth Warren in the Senate was inspired by what he saw as a lack of representation of sex worker voices in the legislative process. There’s no politician who gains political currency for standing up for the voices of sex workers con have said, they’re not a voting block.

They’re not a donor block lobbyists. Don’t represent them on Capitol Hill and they were just totally shut out. They were simply invisible roll call, also interviewed sex workers advocate. Kate Adiamo a partner with the organization, reframe health and justice, who explained that there are so many people advocating for the criminalization of the sex industry, whether it’s law enforcement or religious movements, folks who think they can criminalize the sex industry out of existence.

They have people on the Hill meeting with offices regularly and sex workers. Don’t DIA Damo said sex worker advocates have pointed out that their voices and experiences are crucial to frame the current bipartisan debates on making further changes to section two 30 protections. Foster assess two was conceived as the section two 30 exemption and drafted by religiously inspired, Midwestern Republicans like representative and Wagner or Missouri, who said it was the most effective way to ensure website can no longer traffic children within punity con his bill from last year was called the assessed to foster examination of secondary effects for sex workers study act and would have required the department of health and human services to conduct a study on sex workers, health and safety, particularly how they’ve been affected by the 2018 passage of foster Acessa last month roll call reported sex groups signed a letter for more than 70 organizations to the Biden administration and Congress warning that further changes to section two 30 would do more to already at risk communities than it would to embattled social media companies, such as Facebook and Twitter.

The organization’s recommended passing is bill to study the effects of foster sister before making any fundamental changes to section two 30 protections. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult side, broker adult say, broker is proud to list for sale. A network of two mainstream dating sites. The websites are currently run on someone else’s system. Unfortunately, that company will go out of business at the end of March because of this, the owner decided to sell the website at a very reasonable price.

If the company is not sold by the end of March, the sites will migrate to a new platform and the price will go up to a more reasonable valuation. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and New Zealand, both are mainstream flirt, chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis. They have a loyal customer base of 27,000 plus real members with many customers still active from 2017.

Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with very low overhead and a proven ROI of 900% on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing. These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep of the sites requires very little time and most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 plus strong member database.

Many great markets are yet untapped for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA. Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites now for only 484,000 euros. The price is going to go up to 632,000 euros after March 31st. Now time for this week interview my guest today on adult site.

Broker talk is Dan Hoke, director of operations at porn star platinum and trans erotica. Hey Dan, thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk, happy to be here, Bruce and happy to have you. Now Dan started in 1998 in the amateur market with his then wife and had the first swinging couple site on the internet. Dan morph this into starting a cam network with other amateurs. And then he rolled that into one of the top cam companies. One of the early camp companies, cam Z, which specialized in cam shows for amateurs and porn stars to broadcast shows on their members areas.

Dan spent 15 years in the cam business and one best live cam site from ex-business as well as an industry pioneer award for innovations in live camps. Dan is now director of operations. As I said at porn star platinum and trans erotica. He’s heavily involved in the channels management for porn stars. After 23 years in business, Stan is still actively involved in the industry and he’s loving every minute of it. Now, now, Dan, why don’t you tell us how you got started in the industry and maybe a little bit more about your background,

Speaker 3 (9m 36s): Both too. It’s got, got a funny story. Actually. We were my wife and I were my then wife and I were in the lifestyle. We were swingers and we were, we were out on a adult friend finder trying to hook up with people and we happened to meet this girl, Abby and her husband. And they suggest we meet at a local swingers club. And when we, we were then living in Kansas city at the time on the Kansas side,

Speaker 1 (10m 8s): Swingers and Kansas city. Yeah, that’s a hard one. That’s a hard one to figure.

Speaker 3 (10m 14s): There are so many swingers and alternative lifestyle clubs out there. My son still lives out there actually. He’s he, he is a security for a couple of fetish clubs out there. And he’s also a Tom now, but he’s like 39 now. So he’s like,

Speaker 1 (10m 31s): Oh geez. I remember him when he was a kid.

Speaker 3 (10m 34s): Yeah, I know. Right. Well, I had them when I was 16. So as a single parent at 18 years old custody, a hundred percent custody. So wow. I started young, but it was back then. We, you know, we really didn’t, we didn’t know about swinger clubs. We, you know, we knew of them, but we were kind of intimidated and going, you know, they had that predisposition of, Oh, you know, we don’t want to mix with, you know, those people, you know, we didn’t know anything about it. We just made assumptions that were totally without merit anyways.

So this girl and her husband suggested we meet at one of the clubs. And so we said, okay, why not? And we went and we ended up having a fucking great time. It was phenomenal. And we, we ended up back in their room and she made the statement. Would you like to shoot pictures for my website? And I was like, sure. And looked at my wife. And she said, sure, why not be fun? And it, and a light bulb went off in my head that this was a great ice breaker.

Like, you know, when you first meet somebody, you know, there’s maybe some awkwardness at times, you know, you’re not sure and blah, blah, blah, especially for us, as you know, we weren’t used to this type of meeting people in the lifestyle. We, we were more like I used to turn her term, associate passes swingers. We would hit on our friends who were not necessarily in the lifestyle and kind of try to get them to, to party with us. But in this situation though, that light bulb went off in my head and I’m like, wait a minute.

What, you know, afterwards, you know, we had our fun and we took some pictures and you know, and she showed us their website and stuff like this. And I’m like, you gotta tell me more about this. I want to know more. And so she ended up introducing us to her webmaster and I was immediately like, we’re going to do this. My wife was like, yes, let’s do it. And so we immediately started talking to some of our, we started going to this class all the time.

We ended up building up a great group of people. We had like 10 couples, 15 couples in Kansas city, including, I don’t know if you remember Anna and Bruce from, for real swingers. And they, and you know, a bunch of other couples, we would just end up hanging out all the time. And we started shooting pictures with our friends and it was, it was so much fun that we just ended up they and Bruce AKA Bush and Karen, they, they actually wanted their face swirled out because they didn’t want their face on the internet.

And then they saw the first check of, of our web. Just say it after the first week we did, like, I know it was like 2,500 bucks our first week we opened. And so I was like, okay. They were like, wait, wait, what is this? How do you do this? And next thing, you know, they’re opening up their websites. And we teamed up for a little while and we started building websites for all these couples on the, that we hung out with. And we, we had, we had trips and we would take up, we would take over a hotel down in, you know, Bennett Springs and we’ve gone float trips.

It was just a blast. And we had so much fun and we kind of started reaching out to other amateurs. And I bought a domain called barmy.com. And we started having bar meets across the country, started meeting people like Oasis and Jen and Dave, and you know, other people in different parts of the country, we’ve set up little, get togethers and stuff like that. We had, we had them in Kansas city with Carol Cox coming into town. We had ended up having an orange Louisiana on the radio station.

And it was a lot of fun back in those days, but that’s, that’s pretty much how we got started. And then it was, it was the, the beginning of the end, so to speak was when, cause we were in a very conservative area. Kansas is not necessarily known for, even though there’s a few huge LGBT community and swinger community is very conservative. As you can imagine, especially back in the, you know, 2000 turn of the century, we ended up going on the radio station with Carol Cox and two other couples.

And we ended up having an orgy and went out and parts of it went out, live over the air. So we ended up getting out it. So

Speaker 4 (15m 16s): I’m surprised it didn’t end up getting busted.

Speaker 3 (15m 21s): We ended up, some of our pictures were like forced. They told us, Hey, look, you got to blur out the radio station name and all that stuff. And, but anyways, we, we ended up getting out of it. Then you gotta remember, my wife was like, we had children and sure. You know, my son, he might’ve been a little older. He was in high school at the time, I think, but my two daughters were not, they were, you know, nine and six. So they were, my, my wife was very active, you know, in, in brownies and girl Scouts, dance mom.

She was the vice president of the PTO where my Catholic of the Catholic school, where my kids went to school.

Speaker 4 (16m 1s): I’m sure that didn’t go over. Very good. Dare.

Speaker 3 (16m 4s): Yeah. So we got a call from Monsignor, you know, she, he booted her off the, the, the, the PTO and basically half the parents that were like not telling their kids why they could not hang around with our kids anymore, but they couldn’t come over anymore. And we would have, we would literally do. We, we did a very good job of separating our lifestyle and our business from, from the family. Obviously we’re parents, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re diligent in, in not exposing them to things that they shouldn’t be exposed to at a young age, but we were faced then with the dilemma of, of having to deal with that.

And so that’s what we decided to move to Florida to move because the kids were at an age where they could, they, they could tell them that, Oh, you can’t hang around with those kids, but they wouldn’t say why. Right. In a couple of years, they’re going to be able to say why, and they can’t hang around with them. And it was so funny because half the people that we knew were either like shunning us and the other half were like waving enthusiastic

Speaker 4 (17m 14s): Guys.

Speaker 3 (17m 16s): But so that’s, that’s pretty much how I got started in adult and, and really what turned it around into more of a service going into the service side because of how it affected my family. I knew that we could not keep Beth and aaron.com or net couples.com going. And I don’t know if there was any thought at the time. I don’t really remember if there was a thought at the time of longevity of it. You know, we were older than most of the counterparts, you know, we were already in our thirties, God forbid.

Yeah. So we decided to start hosting amateur sites building and, you know, just kind of consulting with them and helping them grow their businesses. So we started amateur hosting to host their sites for free. We started a cam show that would compete with, you know, Danny’s hard, dry, or yeah, Danny’s hard drive. And, you know, Carol Cox at the same time, we can kinda split our ways with Anna and Bruce.

And then, and they started in that work. So we started our cabinet work for amateurs, but we took a little bit of a different approach to it, where they were working. Basically the problem that we had with the amateur cam networks back then was that the people who ran it were really out for themselves and they were looking to siphon as much traffic as they could to their own stuff. Of course. And we always, we always kind of resented that because, you know, we’re, we’re supplying them the content we should all share in the, in the fruits of it equally.

And so the theory behind amateur cams at the time, it was just amateur Khamsi was that we were going to build a network of shows that we all share each other’s one-hour shows and we’re equal all of it, all of its people in that end, we’re going to have a rep share with the people for the money that it does make. And we were going to box it and give it to places like max cash, silver cash, all those old school programs that would buy content for their members area.

And we even did with Leo from now my free cams, but back then he was my free pay site. Right. And, you know, he would put it in his members area as well, and we would share links. And then we had free versions. We had paid versions, but we paid the girls $50, at least $50 back then, that was pretty substantial. It was something other than nothing. Plus we hosted their sites for free on their websites, and then we paid them per show.

And then we would make sure that they would get traffic for their, for their websites as well. Nice. So it was kind of your unique approach that really kind of took off. And we ended up having, you know, 20 to 24 hours a day of live shows sometimes two an hour. And it really was, it was, it owned the amateur market and it was kind of fun back then. I remember. And then when we got lucky with a little program called flash prior to it coming out, we were out courting the diff the developers at Adobe and at the mainstream shows and everything.

And we got an early copy of it, so we could dev it out. And we, you know, we were sending him some amateurs who were horny just to, just to get on these guys’ good side. And we partied with fun and they took really good care of it.

Speaker 5 (21m 6s): Oh, I bet they did.

Speaker 3 (21m 8s): When it came out, we were already ready. So we were the first campsite when we switched over to private cams and we started offering the first version of Khamsi was called private Khamsi when we, when we first hit the switch, we already had the traffic from our plugins and our free version with all the shows. It was instant money for the girls on the network. So they started doing private shows, using flash, no more windows, media, and coder back then it was so cumbersome and big. And it was really hard to, you know, hard for them to grasp where flash was so easy back then, you know, it was like night and day to be able to use, we could, we could save the archives really easy and we could service a lot more people with a lot less servers.

And it was, it was just a breath of fresh air and it was so nice to code and, and friendly to use on the websites. So we kind of blew up with that. We did, we had a hundred percent, 200% growth every year for, I don’t know, five, six years in a row. It was a lot of fun. And then we, especially when we hit Khamsi in about, it was right after 2000, we S we launched in 2000. So it was like 2002, I think, 2003, we launched private cams.

And then I think 2004, 2005, yeah, 2004, I think we went right into KMZ. And that was that’s the, that was the nice run.

Speaker 5 (22m 42s): That was big. That was big. You must have, you must have shed a tear too recently when flash was killed.

Speaker 3 (22m 51s): Yeah. Yeah. It was funny because we were the first one to get it. And the last one to leave, it was probably my downfall when it comes to cams.

Speaker 5 (23m 1s): Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (23m 3s): Now, yeah, no one else

Speaker 5 (23m 7s): I’m telling you now, what do you feel is the greatest opportunity now for new people coming into the adult industry

Speaker 3 (23m 13s): Certainly has to be the, the, the fan platforms models today have a wonderful opportunity. They have so much power now, more power than even back in the amateur days. You know, amateurs made a lot of money back in the day. You know, it was like they didn’t rely on companies. They relied on other friends, you know, we had friends exchanges and stuff like that. We relied on each other and it’s very similar to today’s market where anybody who has the ability to gain a following and social media can make money on, on the fan platforms.

Yup. And so I think that for, for new people is do whatever it takes to be consistent on those platforms. You know, like that, that opportunity doesn’t come along very often. And the, you know, to see what’s going on with fan platforms is, is a phenomenal thing. And, you know, I see it every day and work with it every day and the amount of money and the amount of opportunity for fans to really get to know and get inside the heads of the performers that they follow.

And the amount of interactions that are available to fans and models is unlike anything outside of having that 24, seven Voyager cams that we used to have. And them actually being able to communicate is wonderful is a wonderful thing and a great opportunity for models these days to monetize.

Speaker 6 (24m 59s): Sure, sure. Now what’s your passion when it comes to our industry

Speaker 3 (25m 4s): Right now, I’m actually getting back into shooting, which is very passionate for me right now, but cool. Just now just thinking about it and getting back in, I’m going to be doing some POV stuff for myself, but my passion has always been cam and it will always be, you know, it’s been really hard the last seven years being outside of the cam game. I mean, there’s been a couple of companies that have contracted for some, you know, like brought me in for some consulting gigs on things.

And I I’ve been blessed to be able to do that and I’ve enjoyed that, but it’s, it is still my passion. I still try to keep up with what’s going on. And in fact, right now we’re working on a, a project in house that’s that does involve a lot of white label stuff, which is for me, the stepping stone is always, you know, a lot of affiliates told me, like how, how do I get into the cam business that everybody wants to be a cam own a cam company.

Right. And I always, my, my, my always my first response was always try being an affiliate first, if you can do white label and you can get enough traffic and enough infrastructure to funnel traffic to your white label to make money on that white label. Well, then you, you start building your traffic network. That’s a great idea. Yeah. And so my passion right now is we are doing that now with not only porn star platinum and trans erotica or platinum has always had a white label and it’s done fairly well.

Especially I got on board with, I was one of the first things I did was examine what they were doing with live cam and, you know, we 10 X the revenue from it and the, but we are now building white labels for three of the companies that I’ve run with. And so I’m excited to build the infrastructure around the funnels, the, you know, taking a look at what jerk, mate’s doing a phenomenal job that they have done, not only on their front end, but their backend infrastructure stuff like that is it’s really something that has my blood flow going, because they’ve done a tremendous thing, the amount of backlinks and blogs and things like that, that they have that have built an infrastructure that is so solid, that kind of stuff really gets me going.

And so to be able to take a look at it, take a look at different models out there for developing traffic to white labels, developing a white label. That makes sense with the right partner that we have. And that right now is something that I really enjoy working on along with the, you know, seven or eight other projects that we have going on. But that one stands out to me as, as the one I’m probably the most passionate about.

Speaker 5 (28m 6s): Hmm. Yeah. You know, pro I probably get more requests from people to buy campsites and just about anything else. And they’re just not out there. It’s just, it’s amazing. Now, what is it that you’re working on right now?

Speaker 3 (28m 23s): Well, outside of the, what I just mentioned, we’re working on upgrading the tech for the membership sites themselves porn star platinum, and trans erotica. For those who don’t know is a, it’s a membership site for official websites for stars and say on the porn star platinum side, you’re talking about like a Laura Jensen, Jenson D Williams and a bunch of others. And so we do not only their official lab sites, but we also have a network site for porn star platinum.

And, and so everything is done on trade. So the girls are getting content that they can feed to their channels, to their, their fan platforms, views it in various ways that they need to monetize that content. They get professionally shot content for free, and they also get another demographic in the sense that they get a website of their own, their official website to display that, you know, to make additional revenue from albeit a lot less than what they’re making on those, some of the, some of those other platforms, but it’s still another source of income.

Sure. But th the key component to that would be they get content, they get steady flow of content that doesn’t cut professionally shot, professionally edited, that doesn’t cost them anything. And that’s probably the biggest benefit to them. So one of the things that we have done to get back to your original question was we’re trying to upgrade the model of the, of the membership site. We need to integrate more technology and more updated forms of making it relevant to the fans, bringing that fan component to it, the integration and hybrid, so to speak of a fan platform within the membership sites.

So we’re, we’re working on technology right now to, to incorporate that into the website so that the girls make more money. They have a little bit more control. They can update, update their wall themselves. They can answer questions and DMS, and they can send out a special customs. They can do whatever the things that they do would normally do on their band stuff. They can do that. We are going to be doing that, especially with trans erotica and porn star platinum. We have, we’re developing, it’s called trans fans with an S I’m getting away no more Zs for me.

And then, but that’s basically what it’s going to be. It’s, it’s basically a hybrid that we’re going to integrate into the websites themselves. So it’s a good, it’s going to, it’s going to help the model be a little bit more substantial as far as revenue possibilities, as well as it, make it more relevant to today’s market and keep up with the time so to speak. And what kind of go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. That’s just one of the things that we’re working on.

Obviously we try to stay ahead of head of the curve. And even though we’re in such a dinosaur market, we still make money. Right. Membership sites. They don’t make the money that they used to, and they may never make the money that they did once did, but they still do make money. We still grow year after year. And so updating those is, is still profitable for us.

Speaker 5 (32m 0s): Well, speaking of money, what kind of money can the stars make on membership sites like trans trans erotica and porn star platinum?

Speaker 3 (32m 12s): Well, obviously it varies from star to star. You know, some have the following, some have the stardom and recognition just like fans, our fans, our fan bases, our fan bases. It also depends you get what you put into it as well as a, as a, a porn star who wants to help with the marketing and help with being a part of it, whether it’s through live shows for those members, or you even helping us promote it or linking to it shooting consistently.

I think the biggest, biggest hurdle for us as a company is getting that the models to be consistent in updates. And because affiliates are very fickle, they don’t necessarily trust the individual personality based websites, right? Because so many times they get abandoned. Whereas companies like porn star platinum will always have updates. Dual stars within porn star platinums may not be so it’s very difficult and it takes some, some reaching out and showing that, Hey, I am involved with this.

You know, I am involved with my, my membership site. For instance, it’s been a breath of fresh share. We, we just, we, we signed a girl by the name of Anna Clara cloud. I don’t know if you’re familiar with her, but she’s an OSI modeling girl. She’s super phenomenal. She’s fucking phenomenal. I really like her. She’s a go getter. She’s very motivated, very together, very business savvy, and just wants to be a part of it once is helping us help her.

And that that’s where it can make, they can make a substantial income. Oh yeah. When they’re helping us help them. And it really makes all the difference for us. It’s very difficult. We have to reach out and always have to try to pull teeth just to get an update. It’s very difficult for us to be motivated to help them. And it’s also something that affiliates notice because we give them usernames and passwords to get in there sometimes and pull some promo that they need for their websites and how they link to it, to their blogs or whatever.

However they’re doing it. It reviews sites, review sites are known torturous for that, right. They want to, they want to get in there and see it. If they see that they’re not updating, well, guess what, they’re going to put out there. They’re going to ping them because they’re not putting out regular updates, of course, or they’re not doing live one hour shows for their members. So that’s probably the biggest hurdle we have with that. But those who do can make, still make, you know, anywhere from two to 6,000 a month down to a couple hundred a month, it really, you know, like those who hustle can do fairly well with them as a secondary source of, of revenue for them.

They’re their primary source of revenue. Let’s face. It is going to be their, their fan platforms. Right? Sure, sure. Most audibles that’s their primary source of revenue, but it’s always good to have some other revenue coming in. You never know when you’re going to get kicked off or, you know, slow paid or, you know, some of them are kind of temperamental. You never know if they’re gonna to

Speaker 7 (35m 32s): Merchant account. Imagine that performer’s temperamental.

Speaker 3 (35m 38s): We all are at some point.

Speaker 5 (35m 40s): Indeed. Indeed. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35m 43s): I I’m fortunate that I’ve, I’ve worked with some really good people, you know, it’s, I’ve been blessed. Yeah,

Speaker 5 (35m 51s): Absolutely. Now, now tell me about trade content. Why is it so important to your platforms as well as to performers in general?

Speaker 3 (36m 1s): Huge. Now, you know, back when we started this, it was kind of shunned upon, like, why would you want to do that? You know, everybody was like, why would I want to give up, you know, like I’m not getting paid for this shoots. You know, why do I want to do trade content and build a website? And now it’s like, they wished they had done it 10 years ago. Right? We started, we started this eight, eight years ago, nine years ago. Now I think porn star platinum was nine, 10 years ago.

And you know, it was built on the premise of doing trade for the most part. I mean, we did buy some scenes and we still do, but for the most part, all of our content is trade. And it’s even more so relevant now with the fan platforms because the girls need between them many bids and only fans, you know, clips for sale, you know, the, all of the different, you know, loyal fans to all of the different platforms that they have. I want clips and just for fans and everybody of avian stars, you name it.

There are so many options for performers to monetize that it almost becomes overwhelming for them, which we’ll get into later when we start talking about NBC and stuff. But if we, if we ended up going there, but you know, for trade content, we were so far ahead of the game because we started this so long ago when it was really shunned upon. Now it’s a necessity, girls have to do some trade content.

They don’t necessarily have to do with porn star platinum or trans erotica because it ends up, you know, they look at, Oh, it’s a third person, but realistically, the only place that we’re monetizing that content is within our websites, possibly a porn porn hub. If it makes a porn hub with the girls on the network, we’re also putting it out on DVDs and we have a NMG we work with NMG and, and, and those guys to do our distribution. And so we share our revenue with, with the girls on the network for that DVD and distribution revenue, right?

So everything that we do, we share with them, they get 70% of what their site makes and they get their content for free professionally shot. And so for, for it’s a win-win and they’re, let’s face it. The girls are going to make much more money off that content than we ever, but it works for us and it works for them. They get what they, they get what they need, that we get a update for their, for their website and for porn star platinum and or trans erotica.

And, and it helps them feed the many channels and ancillary revenues that they have a revenue streams that they have. So that’s why it’s very, very important today. And I would say that trade is almost become the norm, as opposed to like, there’s so many big stars that are, are saying, okay, I’m only going to do, I’m going to price myself out of so many scenes that, you know, they’re not begging companies now for shoots because they don’t have to, you know, like some of the big stars are saying, I’m just going to do a cup.

I’m going to put my rate at like, you know, $3,500 a scene. And they, they just, there’s only so many companies that can afford that. And they do that basically just enough do one or two a month or whatever it is just to keep themselves relevant and out there from those companies. And they, they basically shooting they’re shooting six days a week trade content with their friends and hiring photographers and, or significant others doing the shooting, investing in equipment that where they can shoot quality content themselves or trading with companies like ours and other trade companies to where they can get a professionally shot content for their other platforms.

And because that’s where their money’s at. Hmm. Nice. It’s it’s no longer waiting for that next paycheck from some company who hires them to, you know, get a one-time pop on a scene, you know, why get 1000 or $1,200 per scene when you could literally make $4,000 from that scene on your own? Sounds good

Speaker 1 (40m 31s): To me now. I think you just kind of referred to it, but you’ve got a new company called new verticals. Tell me about it. Tell me what it does.

Speaker 3 (40m 39s): But we started that with my wife, my then my then wife, Alex Lavelle. She was our social media person for trans Radhika at first. And she came up with a very unique way of doing, doing our Snapchats. We started, we wanted to do a Snapchat takeover. She came up with this great idea to do takeovers, and we do invite stars to come over and do one day of our public Snapchat. And then one day of our private Snapchat.

And they get all, every penny that it made during those five days of promo, we would do three days prior to that promos. They would do promos that they’re going to be on here. And anything that made in those five days, they got to keep and they were guaranteed a minimum as well. And then she came up with this great idea of, of taking scenes every day and cutting them up and putting them on when there was no live person that we could have as a takeover. And so we were doing a couple, two or three takeovers a month, and then augmenting the days in between with putting up a scene, cut up in 10, second clips every day.

And we would update that she would update the Snapchat and it did very well for us. And then she just started doing our social media and ended up expanding it into a porn star, platinum for awhile as well. And from there, she started looking at channels management and helping stars because one of the, if you think about it and we got into this and we’ve named, I can sit here and name 15 different places for porn stars to go or content creators to go and monetize their, their content.

But to be consistent on all of them is literally impossible for one person to do. If that person had a husband or wife or a significant other that worked with them, they, they may be able to do it consistently, consistently, but they wouldn’t have a life. So what, what she did was she, she, we, we kind of put together a team that do and develop techniques and things like that to assist them in being consistent, whether it’s taking over posting titles and description, organizing their content, as it comes in, putting them out on the channels for them, you know, making sure that their wall posts were what they wanted, you know, helping them with their social media strategies, things like that.

So she has an all income. We, we, we put together an all encompassing team that pretty much can do whatever the, whatever the models need to maximize their channels revenue and be consistent, even when they are too busy to be consistent. Sure. That’s awesome. Kind of helped them. And obviously there’s a percentage and or fees for certain things, you know, like, and we don’t like do like personal stuff for them.

Like we just do their promo tweets and you know, maybe some Instagram, we will take care of their Instagram posts and things like that. Maybe some different things just to be consistent and give them a strategy. We have an SEO department that also will help with developing an SEO strategy if they do have a personal website or different things that we have learned that are successful within platforms on techniques to do, to maximize the revenue for each platform, because each platform is not only individually challenging and how does its own set of rules.

Right. But they’re changing all the time too. You know, you look at, let’s just take many of it’s for instance, many events before your ranking was basically on sales, right. It was, it was all based around sales where now it’s very much not. It’s very much around the algorithm that they have for their social part of it. And be social is very, very important to your ranking. And it goes like on a 45 day cycle and you need to be on top of it every day and do things every day within your profile, whether it’s making a post re-tweeting, your friend’s post, or, you know, the cause basically it’s like a tweet, a Twitter board, right?

And so you have to, you have to get little hearts, you have to do those things and including uploading videos and, or MV crush, or doing those little things every day, that earn you additional points towards your rankings to get your store more exposure. If you don’t do those things, your store is getting very little exposure. So like every platform changes their, their algorithms, including Instagrams and Twitters and everything else.

So, yeah. So new verticals was basically to assist those, assist those performers in helping them, you know, get the consistency and maximizing their revenue.

Speaker 5 (46m 5s): Okay. Now you’ve, you’ve obviously had quite a background. You’ve had a lot of notoriety and awards in the past for your innovations in life camps. Where do you see that segment of the adult world going in the next several years,

Speaker 3 (46m 20s): Leaps and bounds? I think that’s one consistent, you know, if you look back over the last 20 years, that’s it? That is the one consistent growth industry that we have had within the adult community. It’s true. Live cam is always going to be there because people, especially in this day and age, right now with COVID and being stuck at home, that having that interaction and that personal one-on-one interaction is very important.

And it will always be there in my opinion. I think that’s where the money is. I think that’s, it’s certainly where the growth is. It’s very, very difficult to be a newcomer in that arena without really deep pockets.

Speaker 5 (47m 10s): Yeah. And that’s, that’s what I tell people when they asked me. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (47m 14s): Yeah. You, you know, somebody, somebody, somebody said, somebody asked me, he says, Dan, I, you know, I got this guy he’s, he’s filthy rich. And he wants to do a camp. He wants to get involved in porn. He wants to do a live campsite. I’m like, how rich is he? And how much he willing to lose? Because even back in my day, I lost 15,000 a month for, and you know, 15,000 a month for three years straight, you know, so,

Speaker 8 (47m 42s): And that’s nothing. And that’s nothing that

Speaker 3 (47m 45s): Yeah. And we were, yeah, but you remember, we were,

Speaker 8 (47m 49s): You’d be lucky. You’d be lucky to do that. You’d be lucky to live. Yeah. You’d be lucky to lose that in a way.

Speaker 3 (47m 55s): Yeah, no, you need, you need 10, 10 to $20 million to start a campsite, even realistically. I mean, chatter bait, from what I understand, chatter bait was started with like nine, you know, so it can be done, but yeah, it’s, you need a solid plan and a lot of money to break through. There are some people who are growing organically. Like we, you know, we were a shoestring operation.

We were the smallest cam company, the smallest revenue cam company to ever win best in live cam. Our annual revenue at Khamsi was six, five to $6 million. Okay. That’s like a day revenue of, of a stream mate or, you know, I’m live or Jasmine and those guys. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s ridiculous. But you know, we, we had a lot of fun and, you know, and we just, we did not buy traffic and you need to be able to buy traffic a lot.

Yeah. So what we, what we had to do is innovate. We integrated with others, other cam sites. We actually integrated their performers into our site to make it look bigger than it was. And we didn’t have to necessarily keep those performers happy. And then we would add a dollar 20 per minute. So we would lower our cost of goods to like 25%. So increased our profit margin to, by doing that. So we had to innovate to stay on top of it to really stay competitive, but it was, you know, it was, it was definitely not the, the revenue beasts that we have today.

I think the battle is between free cams versus premium camp. And, you know, I, you can probably guess my preference is always going to be on the premium cams over the free. I think it’s just, I know that, you know, like in the free cam market, the top 80, 80% of the revenue goes to the top 10% of the girls. And then in the premium side, you have at least a chance to build a following that you pop in.

And you know, when you have that following finally built up and you put the time into it, you know, you can make your money and, and go on private. You’re not sitting begging stripper mentality, kind of a budge too, but

Speaker 5 (50m 32s): That’s for the models. What about for a company? Where would, what would the better, what would the better a model be for would be free or

Speaker 3 (50m 39s): Premium starting out? Yeah. Let’s say traffic that you need the track, the amount of numbers that you need in traffic to create a free, like chatter bait, my free cams type model. It’s massive. It’s tremendous. And it’s expensive and traffic is very expensive. Okay. Okay. If you think back and you look back at the, the two people who very successful and take my free cams, for example, Leo is always a traffic guy.

He always had that MyFreeCams. He had the triplex passwords. He always had traffic. The guy was a phenomenal traffic guy. And so for him, it was just flipping a switch. Right, right. And so he had a lot of things.

Speaker 5 (51m 27s): He had my free pay site. So he actually funneled a lot of the traffic in there.

Speaker 3 (51m 32s): Yup. And he was building and working on my free cams during that time. So yeah. I remember those days very well, ironically at laughed. And I’m like, this, this site is, it sucks, but it’s sucked in such a great, yeah.

Speaker 5 (51m 47s): It’s still, it’s still, it’s still sucks. And he makes a fortune,

Speaker 3 (51m 52s): You know, it’s such a brilliant idea. It was. So he was so far ahead of his time. It felt like he always was. He’s a brilliant guy. I love him.

Speaker 5 (52m 1s): Really. He really, really is. And I agree. I agree with you. Since I’ve gotten to know him the last, I don’t know, three, four years, you can really see the guy’s genius and he’s also bought things from me. So I’m a little prejudice. But anyway, so if you can offer any advice to models and performers out there,

Speaker 3 (52m 21s): What would it be? Don’t become premadonnas now.

Speaker 5 (52m 25s): No, I didn’t say personal. No, I didn’t say personal advice. I said, I said, performers overall,

Speaker 3 (52m 30s): Stay true to yourself and be consistent. If you think of everything, think of a pot of gold in the middle of a table. And you want to surround it with as much ability to get as much of that goal as possible. And to do that, you need different demographics need to appeal to different demographics. Don’t shut out and put all of your eggs in one basket, because you’re only getting a certain segment of that table.

That goal that’s on that table that you need to broaden your thinking into expanding, to meet the different demographics that are out there that do pay. Like they’re not always going to be huge. They’re not always going to be huge moves, but in the end, you’re never going to be relying on one thing. Because one thing as, as I know, more, more than anyone, if you rely on one thing for your, all of your income sources, that one thing can go away.

And so to be diverse and look at all the different ways that you can monetize your content, expand your brand while you can is very important. I mean, we look at, we look at the volatility of our net and the attacks on our industry that continues even today. We wonder if we’re going to wake up tomorrow and be shut out of Twitter. And if that happens, you think about the platforms that are out there that are left for non-service non-safe for work content.

There’s only going to be one. If Twitter goes away, all we have is Reddit. Okay. That would be the last bastion for us as adults stars and adult performers to get out there, our non-safe for work content to market. Now, granted it’s a good market in Reddit, but it takes a long time to build up. It’s not, Twitter was hard to build up, try to read it, but it is very successful once you do.

But yeah, I mean, don’t, don’t put all those eggs in one basket B, be consistent with all of the different platforms. If you can, if you can’t look for teams that can help you because they, you know, although there’s a cost of percentage cost that comes with that, they can make your, they can make you come more consistent and more diverse and, and help you as opposed to, you know, looking at it as a zero sum game kind of thing. Yeah.

That would be my, that would be my, my advice would be diverse.

Speaker 1 (55m 16s): Absolutely. Well, Hey, Dan, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults that broke her talk. Hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 3 (55m 24s): You bet. Thanks for having me. My

Speaker 1 (55m 26s): Broker tip today is part four of how to buy a website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer at the work begins. If you’re working with a broker, like say, Hm, I don’t know. Maybe adult site broker, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counteroffer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their offer or counter back to them.

A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some basic questions, like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there per day, and any other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing.

You may even decide to get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask those pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself drop a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to do the agreement themselves. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules. However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney changed.

Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we do for our clients is to do a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all of the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow. For instance, this can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to another veteran of our industry, Robert Warren.

Speaker 0 (57m 44s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Dan Hogue. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):

This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Karl Edwards of You Love Jack.

1 (34s):
Adult Site Broker’s proud to announce ASB Cash. The first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission, referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details. First of all, today let’s cover some of the news going on in our industry., the Canadian house of commons committee on access to information, privacy and ethics. That’s a mouthful held its third meeting last week regarding mine geeks content moderation with testimony by three alleged subjects of illegal videos followed by presentations by a Canadian law enforcement expert, a Canadian domestic violence advocate, and two us witnesses, Manhattan liability, lawyer, Michael Bowie, and leading anti-porn activists, Laila Micklethwait of Exodus cry.

1 (1m 34s):
The hearing was even more pressing against Montreal based mind geek with the MPS, allowing three witnesses in particular, the Americans Mikel weighed in Bowie plus the London, Ontario domestic violence victims advocate, and anti-porn activists. Megan Walker to essentially run the entire second half of the hearing asserting a number of extreme moral and criminal allegations against mine geek their executives and employees. This culminated in Bowie who had not been listed as a witness and may have been representing some of the alleged victims who spoke earlier on inserting on the record, a prepared soundbite in America. We have monsters, Harvey Weinstein.

1 (2m 16s):
We have Epstein mine. Geek is Canada’s monster Bowie. Then characterize mine geek whom he claimed has been. He has been investigating for years as a bad unaccountable road company. The US-based religiously inspired Mikel wait was also allowed by the Canadian MPS to refer to mind geek as the mafia and to make unsupported allegations that they had threatened her and journalist Bowie also in a carefully worded language to avoid being cited for slander said that the mind geek corporate structure was something he had never seen before and likened it to something a law school might teach when covering money laundering.

1 (3m 1s):
Last week, the Utah house of representatives passed an amended version of a controversial bill that would mandate a default porn filter on any phones, computers, tablets, or any other electronic devices sold in the state starting in 2022, HB 72 sponsored by Republican Susan. Pulsifer a realtor with no technology experience was speedily passed by the house only hours after it had cleared the committee stage by the narrowest of margins, a six five vote. The bill was introduced into the Utah Senate where it is co-sponsored by staunch anti-porn Crusader Wayne Harper, the unusually Swift overnight passage of the bill with minimal to non-existent debate flew under the radar of local and national news organizations, which had not yet reported on it by Friday morning.

1 (3m 54s):
Pulsifer had attempted to introduce the bill last year when it died at the committee stage over serious by partisan concerns about privacy and interference with interstate and international commerce. Earlier this month, Pulsifer invited anti-porn advocates to support the bill at the committee stage, including an officer for NC OSC, formally known as morality and media, the leading national sponsor and founder of anti-porn legislation members of the Utah trade associations, tech companies lobbies and free speech groups, all advocated against HB 72 if passed the mandatory filters from which for profit faith based software companies have been profiting for some time would have to be activated by default in 2022, if certain additional conditions attached to the bill as an amendment are met, according to analysts, international manufacturers of phones and computers like Apple or Google

2 (4m 57s):
Could face civil liability.

1 (4m 59s):
If they don’t comply. Pineapple support is introduced pineapple United a membership club for the adult industry that offers a direct connection to the organization, staff and board members. We can’t do what we do without community said pineapple support founder, lay a tenant. It’s not just an integral part of the adult industry. It’s a key to better mental health outcomes. That’s why we’re reaching out to the broader community to get involved by becoming a part of our team as a pineapple United member, you’ll be part of a committed group of individuals who have been invited to organizational meetings, have your voice heard and help grow the organization.

1 (5m 41s):
The following pineapple United support packages are available to the industry mango $10 a month, but Nana $25 a month, Kiwi $50 a month and passion fruit a hundred dollars a month. Sponsorships are also still visit pineapple support.org. For more details. Adult site broker is a proud sponsor of pineapple support. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we are proud to announce for sale. One of the top escort and adult entertainment directories in the world. This is a highly successful directory for escorts massage dancers and fetish providers.

1 (6m 23s):
The site continues to grow at a rapid pace. Despite the pandemic 2020 profits were actually still up the site offers adult entertainer ads for over 30,000 providers with an active base of 9,000 plus active profiles and all major us Canadian and UK markets. The platform has a very loyal advertiser base allowing the owner to enjoy passive recurring revenue. In addition to an impressive number of new advertiser joins daily revenue is also derived from third-party ad space from major advertisers that does not intrude on the website’s beautiful, clean design, making the sites stand out from all their competitors.

1 (7m 6s):
Their SEO is very strong with page one rankings in all major cities at the platform serves their backlink profile is the envy of the industry. You get all rights and trademarks for the company’s proprietary products. This is a tremendous opportunity to buy a gold mine. The sites prices now been reduced for a fast sale. Now only $1.9 million. Now time for this week’s interview yesterday on adults’ site. Broker talk is Carl Edwards. Carl, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

3 (7m 43s):
Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

1 (7m 45s):
It is my pleasure.

3 (7m 47s):
No, it’s my pleasure. No, it’s my pleasure.

1 (7m 51s):
You’d say that. That’s awesome. Now, now Carl is one of the true pioneers of the gay adult industry from his early days as the owner of bedfellow.com to you love Jack, which I’m sure you’ve heard of and foot woody.com and his most recent venture X, X, X edit.com. He’s been on the forefront of technology and adult internet marketing. He shoots net it’s his own content manages his own affiliate program and he codes and designs each of his sites from scratch. Now this hands-on approach keeps him in direct touch with his market and helps them stay. One step ahead of the competition.

1 (8m 31s):
Now, Carl, you’ve been in the online adult game for a long time,

3 (8m 37s):
Since the late nineties. It’s a, it’s an eon in internet years.

1 (8m 43s):
God, that is that’s like the beginning.

3 (8m 47s):
How, if things do, I’ll tell you just a little interesting aside, my business partners and myself actually processed the third-party visa transaction on the internet way back in the day, like this is before CC bill and I bill and DMR and all like, it’s just, we go way, way back. So we were kind of breaking ground back then, but

0 (9m 9s):
Yeah. Wow. So how have things changed since you got started?

3 (9m 15s):
Oh, let me see. I guess the, you know, the big thing, right? You know, when I started this, you could throw up a site and literally you could throw up a site and make money within a couple of days and a lot of, and it just isn’t that way anymore. There’s still a demand for the content and people are still consuming the content, but they’re doing it in different ways and you have to be a lot more savvy in actually reaching your customers. It’s not like the old days where they just sort of flocked to you. So I mean, that’s big thing, but the, you know, the, the real thing is people are savvy in their consumption as well.

3 (9m 56s):
And they have a very specific set of needs that, you know, you can’t meet by throwing up a couple of pictures in a two minute clip. They’re not going to be satisfied by that anymore. They’re sophisticated. And they’re used to consuming content day in and day night. And then unless you really raise the bar in what you’re actually showing them, they’re just not going to be interested.

0 (10m 17s):
Yeah, yeah, no, back then, I mean the entire internet almost was porn. Right?

3 (10m 23s):
Well, as far as I was concerned, it was, you know, it’s funny. I go back my background and the internet, there’s a company like a service provider in Canada called simpatico, which is run by bell Canada. It’s one of the big telcos in Canada. Right. And they, they, when they first started, simpatico was sort of staged. It was set up to be like, Canada’s AOL only without sending you a million CD ROMs in the mail. And I was actually working for a simpatico. They hired me to program their children’s entertainment website.

3 (11m 4s):
It was like early days of JavaScript and Netscape two. And, you know, I made all these crazy games like squash, the teacher and park piano and all these fun things that kids would love. And it was, it was like the wild West. Like we would just make stuff and see if it worked. And it was a lot of fun to go to work every day. And then all of a sudden bell Canada came in and realized, you know, that this was a cash cow and suddenly they want to corporate bureaucracy put in place and content was being decided by committees. And you know, all the fun, all the, all the soul got stripped out of what we were doing. And I, I turned to my friend who I worked with in, in the bars way back in the day he happened to work there as well. And I just said, you know, just kinda start a porn site.

3 (11m 46s):
And it was like dot, dot, dot, right. Cut to the map as the plane flies across the ocean. And next thing you know, we’ve got bed phone, it’s, it’s the, you know, the largest gay porn site on the internet. So, and I say, next thing you know, is like two years later with working 18 hours a day. And, you know, being really savvy with our media buys and really understand, you know, figuring out how to make the thing work. It wasn’t like, I don’t want to make it sound like it was easy, but it was compared to if we started today, right. Well, you didn’t have the competition then that’s right. But the competition that we did have was fierce, really. It was just, it was just a different group. Like there was, it’s funny because back then there was like three or four big sites that were our competition.

3 (12m 29s):
And now it’s three or four big sites that control all the traffic. So it’s slightly different, but sort of

1 (12m 35s):
Sure now is the market as strong as it once was. And why do you think it is arisen?

3 (12m 44s):
Well, I think yes and no. I, like I said, I think there’s still a lot of, Ooh, that was a nice S sound, but it’s still, I think there’s still a lot of demand for this kind of content, but the way that people are consuming it, I mean, everyone’s aware that they can get content for free. Yeah. The tube sites have sort of pounded it into people’s brains that this is not something that they have to necessarily pay for, unless they want something very specific. Right. So when I say it’s fragmented, I mean, people are buying smaller and smaller slices. They’re still consuming a lot on mass, but they’re not necessarily buying a lot. So it’s, you know, you got to sort of pry the money out of probably the money out of their hands, right?

1 (13m 26s):
Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Now why do you shoot your own content? Why not just buy it from a content provider?

3 (13m 35s):
Oh, that’s easy. If I don’t shoot it, it sucks that wasn’t, that wasn’t, that, wasn’t what I was going to

1 (13m 45s):
Say. That wasn’t a pun or anything. Was it? I don’t need

3 (13m 47s):
Edith Wharton to tilt her fan at me on this one. No, that, I mean, really I have such high exacting stats. You know, I, my background is in photography. I got my degree in photography. I have a bachelor of fine arts in photography from 1990. I’m that old. So I’ve always been an image maker

1 (14m 8s):
19, 1990, not old

3 (14m 13s):
10,000. And I turned, I turned 55 this year.

1 (14m 19s):
I got to

3 (14m 20s):
Remember. You probably remember in the eighties and nineties, the freedom 55 commercials where people were walking around bragging that they were able to retire when they’re 55. Yeah. Wouldn’t that be nice? I don’t think retirement is part of anyone’s future anymore. We just work until we drop. Right. But no, I’ve always been an image maker and it’s something that matters a lot to me and making something that not only looks good, but tells a story effectively. Even if that story is you take off your clothes and you suck his Dick, like that’s still, the, the storytelling still has to happen in a way that’s sophisticated enough for the audience that is consuming.

3 (14m 60s):

4 (15m 1s):
Yeah. And especially with all of the, especially with all the options they have, if you’re, if you’re not good, you, you die.

3 (15m 11s):
Well, let’s just say, and yeah, there’s a lot of free stuff out there. And the advantage we have as content producers, I’m sorry, it’s a new age content creators. Is that the stuff that’s out there for free typically really sucks too. Like people will always find a way to pirate something. I mean, you know, the internet democratized, the means of distribution, which meant someone like me could actually produce and sell content on the internet relatively easily, but that also means other people can pirate it and redistribute it as well. So, you know, that’s, that’s something we’re always going to live with. And I think since day one, it’s always been about staying just ahead of that curve. Just one step ahead. You know, if you do part of the stuff it made last week, someone’s still going to buy the stuff that I made this week.

3 (15m 56s):
So, you know, I, I’m still a little bit ahead of the game, right?

4 (16m 0s):
So what are you doing about piracy?

3 (16m 5s):
No, I mean, I’m being flippant, you know, it’s, there’s not much you can do. It’ll always be there. If I encounter content in my travels, you know, I’ll send a DMCA notice and it gets taken down, but I’m just a small guy. And I tend to, I’m a small organization that I tend to create a sense of community around what I do. So people aren’t coming there like it’s Amazon to buy stuff and return it or redistribute it. They’re coming there to consume it. And, you know, incidentally piracy will happen. Incidentally people will share it in the wrong spots. Incidentally one or two people will come in and be like, yeah, now I’ve got this and I can put it on this pirate site, but that’s, you know, I keep hearkening back to Hillary Clinton talking about the basket full of deplorables.

3 (16m 54s):
And really, I think what she was saying is like those people, I don’t think she was saying those people are deplorable. I think she was saying, that’s a small percentage of what I have to deal with. And if I can appeal to the, the, the, the larger sense of community of the people that are coming to my site, my, my energy is better spent producing content for that. Then fending off the piracy on the backside, right?

4 (17m 18s):
Yes. And we got lots of deplorables in the United States. That’s for damn sure.

3 (17m 28s):
One less as of tomorrow at noon, unless you’re a Trump supporter, in which case it’ll be terrible.

4 (17m 35s):
Yeah. We’re, we’re, we’re recording this actually the night before and figuration day. It’ll drop some time in February, but it’s a grand grand day, actually. It’s a 20th air. So it’s a grand day that day to day

3 (17m 53s):
Granting Canada to even, even though we’re not part of it. I always joke, you know, I always say, people ask me about USA politics. And I’m like, you know, if you guys didn’t have such good TV, we wouldn’t give a flying. Fuck what you did, but we need our friends.

4 (18m 10s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Boy, God knows. Right now it’s a grand day for the world. Now, most of your sites have softcore twink, solo scenes. Why do you shoot soft core instead of hard?

3 (18m 29s):
Ah, well, I, I, I am in a live, live work situation and I, I can do without the place where I live smelling like ass 24 hours a day. That’s funny, that’s the joke side of it, right? Like, it’s like, okay, I’m going to film this stuff, but you know, do I have to make a mud pie? And I got to get away from that analogy when I’m talking about, but fucking, it’s not going to make anyone else. The reality is I keep talking about storytelling and my perspective when I’m shooting content and creating sites is that I’m giving someone sort of seeds for their own fantasy.

3 (19m 11s):
So they can look at what I, what I show them. And that can sort of become a surrogate for something in their own lives. Maybe they’re looking at this guy and he kind of looks like someone that they know or someone that they fantasize about, or maybe it’s just a really hot guy and they enjoy watching him get off in that fashion. So I don’t really feel the need to draw the dots. You know, we do, we do some hardcore stuff. Mostly when I do hardcore it’s BJ stuff. Like I’m really interested in the interaction and, and how to people relate to each other as opposed to a graphic description of an act. Right? So, you know, you won’t see super tight closeups.

3 (19m 54s):
We’ll make sure that you can see everything when I shoot the content, but it’s really, it’s about what’s happening with two people, not the fact that there’s a glistening insertion. You know, the funny thing is most porn and I edit porn through triple X edit. So, you know, I see a lot of different content from a lot of different people and you know, a lot of porn, I won’t say all porn, but a lot of porn is proof of insertion. And it’s proving that it’s happening from this angle. Now we’re going to show you another angle to show this happening right now. We’re going to show you another angle to show that it’s happening. And that was a bright, close up to show that it’s happening. And without the human side of that, there’s nothing to differentiate that from something that we shot 20 years ago, right.

3 (20m 35s):
It’s nothing to differences that from something that was shot in every other side of the internet. So by sort of dealing with the relationship, even if that relationship is one person sitting on the couch and the relationship is to themselves and sort of projecting out to the viewer, I think that’s more important. I think that’s a little bit more interesting at the end of the day.

1 (20m 52s):
Yeah, I do. I mean, I think there used to be more of that. Do you see that coming back? Not only in gay porn, but in straight porn,

3 (21m 1s):
God, I hope not. Cause it’s kinda my speciality. Right. But you know, what’s, what’s the one thing that hasn’t changed since I was doing this in the nineties to now is I think when people pay for porn, they’re not paying for it because it’s porn and I need porn. We’re not in high school anymore. They’re paying for something very specific. They want to see that person do that thing. And you know, that’s, that’s really what I’m selling. When I, when I show people the solo twink stuff and you know, it’s not, we don’t show generic twinks. We, you know, the, the term on a you’d love Jack is buggered twinks, and that’s not a tweak who has been anally penetrated.

3 (21m 47s):
It’s a twink this slightly off, they’re got quirky, good looks. They’re kind of, you know, buggered, but then somehow that makes them better. Right. They’re more approachable.

1 (21m 58s):
Interesting. Now you said you started a foot feather site called foot woody.com and it was gay foot fetish, a big market.

3 (22m 7s):
Oh God. Yeah. You know, Oh, you know, on the one hand I kinda think the internet caused foot fetish. Cause I grew up when I grew up before there was the internet, there was no, you never heard of it. No one had a foot fetish. The internet comes along suddenly you can’t go in any chat room and someone’s like show feet rampant, but it’s as big in the gay market as it is in the straight market. It’s, it’s a very strong sub genre and it just makes sense to, it just makes sense to cater to it. I mean, you know, the biggest cost I have in running the site is attracting new models.

3 (22m 48s):
I pay 1.3 or 1.4 times what I pay a model to attract a model to be on the site, through advertising and events and other things. Right. So once I have a model, I, you know, it makes sense to use them in as many possible ways as I can. So what better site was a kind of a natural, a natural extension on what I was already.

1 (23m 12s):
Okay. Okay. Now, you know, it’s really funny whenever I think of foot fetish, which I don’t have one, but anyway, I always think of that Eddie Murphy and Robin Gibbons movie boomerang, did you see that?

3 (23m 28s):
I can’t remember. As while ago

1 (23m 31s):
You gotta, you gotta find it and watch it is that it was actually a very funny movie, but anyway, yeah. It’s an, it’s about Eddie. It’s about Eddie having a foot fetish.

3 (23m 40s):
Yeah. He’s quite notorious for that. You know, it’s funny. I buy weed, an adult entertainment for 25, 30 years now going on 30 years. And it seems to me that the one thing that, that stands out of what let’s look put better for whatever people tend to fetishize the parts of the body that produce a Roma. And that is disgusting. Think about it that way. But they’ll fetishize buts. They’ll fetishize feet, they’ll fetishize for skin. The feticide, it’s always the parts it’s armpit fetish and the gay side. And as long as there’s some smell associated with it, there’ll be a site that go with it. Right.

4 (24m 21s):
It’s it’s

3 (24m 21s):
A weird thing. So how do you convey that when you’re showing? Well, you can’t really, we don’t have a smell, a vision and it’s a good thing.

4 (24m 28s):
Oh, trust me. It’s probably on its way. Isn’t everything. Isn’t everything. One can only hope indeed. Indeed. You’ll use it. Now. Now the most recent venture you mentioned earlier, XXX edit.com. Now tell us a little bit more about this project.

3 (24m 49s):
Well, this is a, I mean, I’m an a post-production service Bureau for the adult industry. And as far as I know, I’m the only editing company specifically designed for the adult industry. So, you know, we do everything from D DVD production editing scene, single camera, dual camera clips, whatever someone needs, we can do it in house. And we got really lucky last year, we won a bunch of awards in the industry for scenes that we caught. And, you know, it’s, it’s this whole thing that I’ve been talking about with storytelling and being able to sort of expand beyond my own sites and my own scenes and sort of bring this ability to tell a story, to help people tell stories to more and more people.

3 (25m 35s):
It kind of inspired me to start this company and start working for other people as well. And you know, the big part of what I do when I’m, when I’m, when I’m working with other clients, it’s not just Sam, your content, I’ll send you a scene, but I’m talking with them and I’m helping them understand the mechanics of dual camera shoots and the mechanics of how to make a single camera look like two cameras and you know how to shoot for the edit and how to actually convey the storyline that you’re trying to convey, because that’s probably the one thing that everyone struggles with the most, you know, they’ll, they’ll shoot their scene, but the intro, you know, the, the shoot their scene, and it takes three or four hours to shoot an hour’s worth of content. But the intro is two and a half minutes and it takes them three hours because they just don’t understand the mechanism by which to actually create that.

3 (26m 22s):
So it it’s been really rewarding so far and I’ve been working with some really great people and it’s just amazing to see people sort of take little ideas and make their work, you know, grow and, and sort of evolve in a very short period of time. It’s really amazing. So, Hey, this is my, this is my plug, right? If anyone’s some editing work out there, I’m here to help you. Our poor editors, we’ve got almost 60 years worth of adult experience in the editing shop. And, you know, since, since the lockdown, there’s not a lot of jobs going around, not producing anymore.

3 (27m 4s):

4 (27m 4s):
Not a lot of shooting going on.

3 (27m 6s):
Oh, it’s under, yeah. It’s really a problem, but that’ll be the end of the industry before visa, visa fines. Well, right.

4 (27m 15s):
Yeah. Yeah. We won’t talk about that.

3 (27m 20s):
I did do. I brought it up. I’m the worst.

4 (27m 22s):
Yeah. Now don’t worry about it. Now. Now you have your own sites, you kind of alluded to it, but what made you interested in editing other people’s content?

3 (27m 37s):
Well, yeah, it should. It’s just that, it’s just, it’s just what I said. Right. You know, it’s really just about helping other people get their content to the next level. And, and you know, I’m not going to do it for every Tom Dick and Harry that comes along. You know, if you’re a Dick or a Harry, I’m not going to be that interested in working with you. But you know, mostly I’m working with my friends in the industry and sort of just helping them with production design and production consultation and getting the stuff going. I mean, the actual banging out the scenes, that’s easy stuff. Right. As long as, as long as you’ve got the right equipment, just about anyone can do that.

3 (28m 18s):
Probably not as well as I personally can do it, but that’s another story together, but it’s really, yeah, it’s really about just bringing this, this sense of telling the story and the importance of story in every aspect of the adult industry. And that we’re way beyond the, you know, somebody order a pizza, it’s way more sophisticated than that now. And even if the story is as simple as you know, we went back to this guy’s house and had sex that takes some structure in order to tell that story. So that’s believable, right. It doesn’t have to be believable. It has to be plausible.

4 (28m 52s):
Yeah. Yeah. Not the, it’s not always the pool boy anymore.

3 (28m 57s):
And even when it is, it’s not,

4 (28m 59s):
Yeah. It’s really funny. You know, we’ve got a, we’ve got a guy that cleans our pool and I always call him the porn star anyway. But ah, you’re funny. I don’t know. Now, now when you’re, you know, when you’re doing the editing, do you ever find yourself rolling your eyes?

3 (29m 22s):
Do you mean rolling your eyes or trying to gouge my eyes out?

4 (29m 25s):

3 (29m 29s):
No. Listen, when you do it, as long as I’ve done it, you know, the, the single foundational aspect of what I do is that none of this content affects me in a way anymore.

4 (29m 44s):
No, no. What I’m thinking, what I’m saying is, do you ever think to yourself, God, this is really bad.

3 (29m 49s):
Oh yeah. All the time. But that’s, my job is to fix that right. As well.

4 (29m 53s):
Sure. It’s to make it as good as possible. Right, right. Yeah.

3 (29m 57s):
Yeah. And you know, they, it, it doesn’t really get to the point where, you know, there’s, there’s a couple of jobs that I’ve had where I’ve thought, you know, if they were trying, I don’t think they could make it look this bad. Like if someone was trying to be ironic, they would stumble and it wouldn’t as bad as it is. But you know, everyone has a bad day that the same company turns around the next, the next shoot. And it’s fantastic. So, you know, you’ve got to take the good and the bad and it’s, we’re all humans. And we don’t always come to the, come to the shoot with our a game on, right. So it’s not about rolling my eyes. That’s the stuff that is frustrating as an editor is when I can’t convey the right information so that people keep making the same mistakes, not mistakes, but they keep shooting things in a way that makes it more difficult to assemble.

3 (30m 49s):
Right? You just realize that, well, these people have been doing it their way for 25 years. I’m doing it my way. And it’s, it’s the lack of communicate. It’s my lack of communication that brings me there. So it’s all my fault.

4 (31m 4s):
Now, are you doing how much of the, of the editing is, is, is gay content and how much it was. It is straight content.

3 (31m 12s):
These days, it’s almost exclusively gay. I was doing straight content when we first started the thing up. And it was interesting to notice the difference from the gay industry to the straight industry. Tell me about that. The, this, all the straight stuff that I edited. And it could just be that the people that found me and wanted me to do their work was all rape fantasy. It’s not, this is not what the straight market is entirely, but it’s interesting that it was that. And then I get to, you know, as opposed to the gay side where it’s a sort of, all of this stuff that I’m working on is sort of like this sort of flight of fancy sort of modeled after some type of movie experience with a big, a story arc that goes through it straight side, it’s like, ah, bitch, get on the ground.

3 (32m 10s):
And she’s like, ah, you know, it’s just funny. It’s a funny thing. The rape scenes are always the same, right? It’s rough and, and push and push push at the end girls like, Oh, I love this

4 (32m 22s):
And this. I got to tell you, it’s a good way for them to lose her processing.

3 (32m 26s):
Well, that’s just it right. As we found out from, I mean, that was slightly different.

4 (32m 34s):
There are many issues, there are many issues. And sometimes I think we’re our own worst enemy.

1 (32m 41s):
What’s the, what’s the single most important thing for content producers to remember in today’s market.

3 (32m 48s):
Well, I’m gonna say don’t underestimate your customers. And this goes back to this concept of story and production value. I don’t think, you know, we don’t need every scene to be a multimillion dollar pirate movie. It’s Jenna Jamison reference, right? It’s not that, but there’s, there’s a sophistication now. I’m sure that people have in how they consume this content. And if you underestimate that, you’re just going to be, you’re just going to lose someone forever and it can never get back. So once you’ve got someone’s eyes, you’ve got one chance to get them in. Your content has to be content is always been important since day one, but even more now because there’s so much of it out there.

3 (33m 37s):
So we do have, you know, it’s like, it’s like going to a gay bar versus going to a straight bar. If you’re a gay guy, go to a straight bar and there might be another gay guy there and you got a better shot, a hundred gay guys there. And half of them are, most of them are way better looking in New York. If you have to compete against all the freestyle, if you have, there has to be a reason for someone to pay for your content. And it’s going to story, it’s going to be production value. And that’s not just the best, camera’s the best life, although that helps. But it’s, it’s the, the way in which you actually present the content and you know, you can’t just shoot the same scene over and over with different people standing in.

3 (34m 19s):
It’s gotta be. And there’s people out there that are, that are doing a great job of it. The guys at Falcon do a great job at it. The guys who raging stallion now do amazing job. If I helix does a great job with that. And you know, you, you look at what’s going on with only fans and all the derivatives of that entire phenomenon and the way that those guys are catering to their market, you know, there’s lessons to be learned there.

1 (34m 44s):
Oh, big time, big time on that, by the way, on that vein, how is that business model affecting your business?

3 (34m 53s):
Not so much. I mean, it’s just more competition. Yeah. The funny thing about the, the only fans thing from, from professional perspective is the guys that are producing content have a market and they’re catering to their market, but they’re not necessarily marketers. They don’t necessarily extend beyond what they’ve already done. And it’s a funny thing. Like only fans, there’s no previews there. Like there’s no way for people to go there and browse. So you go there specifically to get something that you already know about. Whereas the people who come through my site might be like, Hey, I want to see what this is about. So I’ve got the chance to sell them when they get to my front door on what I want them to, to do or how, you know, how I could get off on that particular day.

4 (35m 39s):
Yeah. Now how important is technology for adult sites? Does everyone need the latest gear? Like a 4k or eight K cameras?

3 (35m 50s):
Yeah, no. I mean, it’s a funny thing. Everyone says, you go through all these websites and you know, they’ll have all these 4k banners all over it. 4k is still one of those things where there’s no way to deliver this content yet, but a 4k camera looks way better than a 10 ADP camera. So if I sh 4k and delivering 10 ADP, it’s going to look better. But you know, it’s all catchphrases. It’s just like, remember when 3d was a thing like 10 years ago when everyone had to get 3d cameras, or remember when VR was a thing like five years ago and it was going to change it, it doesn’t at the end of the day that the technology blips on the radar don’t change the industry.

3 (36m 32s):
The industry is about producing content and it’s about stories. And it’s about, you know, giving people the experience that thereafter, how you wrap it is usually just a gimmick, right? So, yeah, I’m, I’m a techno snob, you know, I I’ve always got the latest gear. I’m currently shooting on a Sony, a seven S3, which is the, you know, the camera of the year. It’s the Jesus, Sony’s new Jesus camera. And it’s great. It does a great job, but it’s just the camera that I have between the last camera I had and the next one I’m going to get. And none of them are going to make my ability to tell a story any better.

3 (37m 14s):
If the pictures and the pixels will look better. Right. But the story is all up to me. So shoot it on the phone. If you have to,

4 (37m 21s):
Yeah. You can shoot some teas and stuff on iPhone right now,

3 (37m 26s):
If you control the lighting properly, because dynamic range isn’t there. But if you control the lighting and you know, you set this thing up, there’s no reason not to shoot stuff on an iPhone. It really does great quality, you know, get the right apps and shoot on film pro don’t shoot in the native app, you have to control the shutter speed. So it doesn’t look a little wonky, but you know, the stuff’s there, you can, you can set up a studio with next to no money now, per compelling content that would rival anything that Hollywood could have produced 10 or 15 years ago. I mean, holiday was now running on a hundred thousand dollars cameras, but right. It’s a, it’s a whole different ball of wax there, but you know, the, the, the tools are readily available.

3 (38m 6s):
You know, you don’t have to go crazy with it.

4 (38m 9s):
Kind of like what happened with music a long time ago. Now, now you mentioned VR is that you seem to kind of be dismissive of it. Although a lot of people are using it. It doesn’t sound like it’s something you’ve partaken in. Is that, do you, do you see a future for it?

3 (38m 28s):
Well, you know, the funny thing, but listen, I, the VR people are going to be up in arms. I’m not a fan. I think the one good thing about VR is it’s an immersive experience that lets you look away. And every time I’ve been in a VR type of demonstration, I’m like, look at the lamps.

1 (38m 51s):
This is cool. Look at the deck. Isn’t the decorating gorgeous. I don’t think VR

3 (39m 1s):
Delivers on its promise because the camera is still stationary. And until I can actually walk in the scenes and maybe walk around and get a different point of view on what I want to look at, it’s not as compelling to me personally. And I know the live people love it. And then there are, there are people that employ it with great fortitude and make terrific content with it. It’s just not something that’s in my, on my radar right now. Okay.

1 (39m 30s):
Okay. What do you see as the future? So good, good segue of online content. How do you see the market changing? Moving forward?

3 (39m 42s):
I, I see it getting even more fragmented and I, and I think that by fragmented, I mean more vertical, more niches, so micro sites, right? We’re we’re back to that. I think the, the age of the mega site with 10 updates a week is not as compelling anymore. Right? I think, you know, people go and look, they’re still spend 40 minutes looking for the five minute clip that will get them off. But the process of looking is where you have a chance to get your audience, right. And you know, if, if I’ve got just, you know, ABC twink.com with generic content from 10 years ago, I don’t think anyone’s going to be some people will love it, but it’s not compelling.

3 (40m 30s):
It’s not going to stop someone who’s looking for things make them consider. So, you know, the online content is always been, it’s always been the thing for me since day one, where it’s different than traditional marketing, traditional marketing. You look at a market, you look at the market, you figure out what’s missing, you create a product to fill that need. And then you develop a marketing campaign to let the market know, like, can I say market anymore, but online for online first you create a product and then you create a market for the product. Right. It’s kind of backwards. Yeah. So when I say micro-sites sites, I really think that, you know, small, like boutique sites are really where everything has gone and only fans in the, in the, you know, the rabid success and things like that are really proof of concept.

3 (41m 25s):
You know, they handed the power back to the, the models, which is a whole other political discussion. Yes and no right on the power. But, but that’s, I think that’s really, the reason it took off ultimately is because it’s what people want. It, people want to follow, you know, this particular model and consume everything from that particular model. And once they have it, they go on to the next person, right. It’s a it’s collecting sensibility. Right. So, you know, and when I say this, I don’t mean it’s all going to be fetishes and, you know, midgets wearing boots, smoking cigars.com.

3 (42m 5s):
It’s not that, but it is really vertical. It might just be, you know, redheads on bikes or, you know, whatever it might be or foot fetish or, you know, a very specific sub genre of foot fetish tweets or in cowboy hat,

5 (42m 20s):
Whatever it is. It’s

3 (42m 21s):
Not about cycling content. It’s still about making really quality, good quality, new content, fresh content, but catered to a very specific market for that content.

5 (42m 32s):
Okay. Now under the Pro-Am market as all, but disappeared online. Do you think it’s ready for a return I’m here. Yeah. Yeah. I’m here. I’m queer. I’m pro am.

3 (42m 46s):
It’s, it’s a tough one. There you need an entirely new set of skills now to market, to, to find your traffic than you did 15 years ago, when Pro-Am was really going crazy, the content is still desirable. The ability for people like me to make sites and, and, you know, get them out to my customer. I it’s still good. I can still do it, but you don’t get like, there’s really no affiliate market anymore. Right? It’s there for sure. It’s there. Like it was where I had 400 sites that would post my picks every time we did an update. It’s not that. So you have to be a little bit more savvy and, and sort of play the social media game in order to get to the people who might buy your content.

3 (43m 32s):
And it’s not, it’s not a quick and easy process, it’s it? You know, I, I don’t know how much you know about SEO. I run a street photography website as well. And my entire SEO strategy for the past search engine optimization strategy for the past five years has been long-term content base produce content that the search engines will, will, you know, search engine friendly content, that it still has value that that can actually get the people who are looking for that content eyes on it eventually. So it’s the same thing right now. We have to sort of dance through social media, not allowing adults or not wanting adults.

3 (44m 14s):
So, you know, there’s different rules to what sites you’re on, but there there’s ways to get to your customers, but it’s not as easy as why. So I think the, the Pro-Am is, is set for a resurgence, but it’s going to be a new kind of webmaster that can do it or an old like me.

1 (44m 36s):
You’re not old compared to some people like the guy asking you questions,

3 (44m 42s):
Crip, keeper. Now, what

1 (44m 46s):
Other advice do you have for content creators and site owners today?

3 (44m 51s):
Oh, don’t take your customers for granted. Don’t think that your customers are stupid and you know, they’re more important than they ever were because they’re not just your customer now, but they’ll remember, and they will come back. I’ve got guys on my site now that have been there for four or five years, because they’re so attached to the content and the way that I, I give them that content, that there’s no reason for them to go anywhere else or they forgot. And I’m the worst person in the world. You never know. But you know, it’s, it’s really, you know, have a, you have a unique idea, have give your content, give your site personality and you know, be responsive, not to the market, but be responsive to your customers.

3 (45m 42s):
You know, if you can, if you can do that, I think that you’re, you’ve got a leg up on just about anyone else.

1 (45m 47s):
That’s awesome. Well, Hey, Carl, I’d like to thank you once again for being our guest on adult side broker talk, and I hope we get a chance to do this again really soon.

3 (45m 58s):
How much does this pay again, Bruce?

1 (46m 1s):
The checks, the checks in the mail. Carl.

3 (46m 4s):
Good. No, this was, this was delightful. Any time, you know, you want my perspective on anything? Let me know. I’m more than happy to connect across the ocean.

1 (46m 13s):
Hey, my pleasure. My broker tip today is part three of how to buy a website. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you’ve either reached the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site. The broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years. That’s up to date. If it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s the pay site, get a username and password for the sites that you can review the content, ask how often the site is updated.

1 (46m 54s):
Get some history on the site. How long has it been in business? The story behind the site and importantly, why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content and how much of it as current technology find out if all the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller. If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the content is on find out how much the content cost to produce and what the current cost of production is. Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the current owner, do they do the shooting themselves or do they hire someone to do it?

1 (47m 34s):
And if there’s an outside producer, will that person continued to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what’s the retention rate on the site and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic asked for Google analytics access. So you can see where the traffic comes from. This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to adult industry veteran Dan Hogue.

0 (48m 12s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest, Karl Edwards. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

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