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Adult Site Broker Talk

At Adult Site Broker we broker websites and companies for the adult space. In this podcast we speak to the movers and shakers of the adult industry, in all aspects of the business. And we tell you how to buy or sell a website or company for maximum profit and with a minimum of trouble.

  Upcoming Guests
 

8/17 – Sex Toy Expert Kim Airs 
8/24 – Carly David of PS Group
8/31 – Performer Coralyn Jewel
9/7 – Kole Snodgrass of Full Swap Radio

 



  

Listen to Adult Site Broker Talk

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of adult site broker, and welcome to adult site broker talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry. And we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week. we’ll be speaking with Michael Ramos of ASN Entertainment.

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The best paying affiliate program accounts are included in the sale. So the buyer won’t have to change all the tracking. The seller will be available to the buyer with some ideas on how to further generate extra revenue, that he didn’t have a chance to implement himself and to train the new owner on the operation of the sites. Everything is there to get things ready for the new owner to come in and make a lot more money than is currently being made. Since the current owner has moved on to other ventures, only $474,000.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site, broker talk is Michael Ramos, CEO, and founder of ASN entertainment. Michael, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 25s): Bruce, it’s a pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 1 (2m 28s): Hey, it’s great to have you now Michael started the magazine in 2011, which was the first of its kind in the lifestyle. They began with a vision and one website and ASN lifestyle magazine and have since grown ASN entertainment into a successful and versatile company. Michael came from the hospitality sector as a GM, as well as a systems administrator out of west Palm beach, Florida. People always ask what ASM stands for and the answer is simple. It stands for adult social network.

That’s simple. It stands for all of us. Now their focus is to be the leader in providing the lifestyle community, the tools and the information needed to navigate all that the crazy lifestyle world holds. So Michael, tell me where you’re based and where are most of your readers?

Speaker 2 (3m 18s): Well, we’re based in Orlando, Florida, the sunshine state, our reader base actually comes from all over the world. The magazine is global magazine.

Speaker 1 (3m 28s): So did it pretty much start out domestic and then branch out from there?

Speaker 2 (3m 32s): Correct, Bruce. We started probably I think with less than a hundred readers when we started. Hmm. And that was back in 2018 when we got the magazine actually up and running to where it was, it was good to go out, but now we’re celebrating our fourth year and we have a reach of over 3 million, 3 million people globally. Wow.

Speaker 1 (3m 54s): Wow. So what do you attribute all the growth to

Speaker 2 (3m 57s): The magazine’s free? I mean, it’s that, it’s the fact that we have really good contributors that, that are in the magazine each month.

Speaker 1 (4m 5s): Okay. Now you also have an online edition talk a little bit about the, the difference between the two and you know, how, how the online versions going.

Speaker 2 (4m 21s): Well, our distribution is only online. We, we, we never got into the print game just because, oh, okay. We, we, we vary in the page count each month, which gives us the flexibility to have either, you know, we could fit a ton of content into, into the space versus being constrained by a printer. That’s only gonna limit us to print X amount pages each month. Sure, sure. So with, with that said, you know, it’s the digital online’s been very successful. The magazine itself is almost, it gives you the, the feel, it gives you everything, but the smell of a real magazine, cause you have the, the, the flip, you have the, the sound of the pages flipping, it gives you all that.

Speaker 1 (5m 0s): Right. And, and you know, in, in this day and age let’s face it pretty much everything’s going digital, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (5m 7s): Correct. I mean, even Playboy after all these years has finally gone completely digital with their publication.

Speaker 1 (5m 13s): Yeah. That was kind of necessitated, I think, by money. So, so how did ASN get started and, and what was the goal at that time

Speaker 2 (5m 26s): Originally when ASN started and hence where the acronym ASN stands for adult social network was we tried to produce a website like SDC SLS back in the day. Okay. And that we were trying to find our niche into this market space. And we were hit with brick walls, a lot of resistance and stuff like that. People didn’t want another dating website or swinger’s website. So after spending lots of money and, and we sat there at the dinner table one night and said, look, you know what, there’s no media company or exposure that’s happening in the lifestyle.

Why don’t we be that source? And the light opened off in the head, you know, and the Jew and me, which I’m Jewish said, let’s produce this.

Speaker 1 (6m 9s): Likewise.

Speaker 2 (6m 10s): And that’s where it’s, that’s where it was born. We became, we, we hit that vacuum. Someone had made the example that there was a vacuum and we were able to suck into it when we got the lifestyle. Because originally when we were told that no one was gonna read the magazine, right. No one was gonna wanna be in the magazine. And we’re now in, like I said, our fourth year and I have probably over a year and a half waiting list on, on the cover. Wow. So it’s, you know, it’s, it’s been very successful. We’re very proud of what we’re doing. We’re very humble.

Speaker 1 (6m 39s): You know, you said you got a lot of resistance. Talk, talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (6m 44s): Well, the resistance came from within the lifestyle itself, being in the, in the lifestyle for, we were 15 years when I decided this was something that we were gonna do. I went to what I thought was the top echelon of the lifestyle. Okay. And gave them this idea of what I wanted to do. And some of the people were very supportive and, and said, you know, we got your back, we’ll support you. And some of those people were actually in the magazine, but then there were some people that said, no, it’s not gonna work. No one’s gonna wanna be in it. And it’s just, you’re wasting your time and you’re wasting your money.

Hmm. And I think the reason they said that is because if I didn’t go through with it, they would’ve came around and done it because it’s, it’s a, it’s a success.

Speaker 1 (7m 23s): Oh, sure, sure. It’s a great idea. But, but you also said that you got resistance to starting another social network, you know, you mentioned SDC. Correct. Was that, I mean, tell me about that part.

Speaker 2 (7m 38s): That, that, that’s actually kind of funny, cuz everything comes, comes to fruit nutrition, the same people that were saying, you know, you know, we don’t want you doing this because 15 years ago and, and probably still true to today, the lifestyle, they tried to keep everybody in their box. So if you, if you’re member of this site, will, we don’t want you on this site. You know, you can’t do this. You gotta go to our parties, blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, so that was, that was the resistance. But the funny thing is, is that resistance then became my advertisers.

So now the people that were fighting me are now paying me. I love it. It’s it’s, you know, and SDC, for example, we’ve been in a relationship with them since 2019 and they’re actually my tele sponsor of our award show this year. Hmm. So you could just see how far we’ve come, you know, from being not wanting to talk to one another to actually working, working together,

Speaker 1 (8m 31s): That’s a little hard to understand because let’s face it. You guys like, like the entire adult industry get a lot of noise from the outside, but I think people in the lifestyle even get more noise because let’s face it. And you know, the, the, the preconceived notion is you’ve got a, you’ve got a man and you’ve got a woman and that’s a relationship. And the lifestyle really deviates from that. Not in a negative way, but I mean, it, it, it, it’s different than the, the preconceived notion, the religious norms, whatever you wanna call it.

Right. And here you wanted to start another social network that had to do with the lifestyle. So tell, maybe you can fill me in a little bit more since I’m not in the lifestyle. Maybe you can fill me in a little bit more about how the people are in that respect to, I don’t know, to, to why are they trying to put everybody in a box?

Speaker 2 (9m 32s): Well, I think what’s happened since that the stigma or, or the things where they were wanting to keep everybody in the box. I think what the magazine did was open up that box, it opened up and say, Hey, you know, this is who we are. We’re proud of what we are. You know, everyone has the outside thing swinging necessarily means, you know, everyone’s going and having an orgy. Yeah. That’s not necessarily the case. I mean, Sweden itself has so many levels of, of what a swinger is. Sure. You could be a swinger and actually not have sex with anybody. You’re just part of a group that, that likes to get together and, and hang out.

Or you could, like we did is we formed a niche with a couple couples that we’ve grown to very fond of over the years. And that’s kind of where we play. We don’t go outside of that group. Okay. But then you, you know, you have the other, the younger generation of swingers that do this whole mass, you know, you know, everyone’s gonna have sex with everybody and, and that’s okay. But as far as the, the stigma about maybe what the outside was seeing, I think that the magazine has helped reshape that because of the, the contributors.

Like I said, that we have, we have some of the best sexologists and therapists in the country that are in the magazine as contributors case in point, our, our may cover is therapists out of central Texas from a, a company, well known therapist company called evolve, your intimacy. Yeah. So having that, we’re able to educate cuz our magazine rides that line right now where I think a lot of our readership is people wanting to know what the lifestyle’s about. So we’re able to educate that part of it and whether they wanna play or just get an understanding of what it is because what they see in the movies and what is reality is, is total opposites.

So I think that’s where the magazine comes in line and helps in creates the, the, the, the group versus the separation.

Speaker 1 (11m 27s): But why didn’t they want another social network? I mean that, I mean, that’s the that’s well,

Speaker 2 (11m 31s): You,

Speaker 1 (11m 32s): It’s hard. That’s the part that hard, that’s hard to understand where you said, well, you, you know, you go to these parties and no, you go to these parties. No, you go to the site, you go to the site. Why is that?

Speaker 2 (11m 43s): Because it comes down to dollars. It comes down to what people are paying. And, and instead of realizing that the lifestyle has so much of a market that everybody can play in the same lake, they feared that, that by having someone that belongs to their site to another site and go to those parties, that they were now gonna lose a customer at the end of the day, that’s, that’s what it is a dollar.

Speaker 1 (12m 8s): And so it was competition.

Speaker 2 (12m 10s): Of course, absolutely. Ah, of course. And the top survived and, and the, the week fell. Yes. But yes, you look now in 2022, there’s so many micro groups in different sites. Now that it’s not the same issue I had when we tried to do this, when we tried to enter this space, it it’s much more inviting.

Speaker 1 (12m 30s): Okay. So what’s the difference between you said you’ve been in the lifestyle for 15 years?

Speaker 2 (12m 35s): Little bit, little over 15 years. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12m 37s): Okay. So what’s the difference between 15 years ago and now what’s changed.

Speaker 2 (12m 42s): It’s more of an open subject. We don’t use the word swingers. We don’t like the word swingers. We use the word lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (12m 49s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (12m 50s): Because swingers seems to have a bed, not, you know, going back to connotation where you yeah. When you threw your keys in a bowl and you picked, and that was the person you were gonna have sex with. And that’s, that’s not what we are nowadays. We’re, we’re about throwing these massive high budget parties, these huge takeovers, these, these all inclusive takeover cruises. I mean, it’s become a, a really big market, no different than, than, you know, if you were going on a cruise that was all inclusive, but didn’t have the sex.

I mean, everybody likes,

Speaker 1 (13m 26s): That’s really all inclusive.

Speaker 2 (13m 28s): Yeah. Yeah. You know,

Speaker 1 (13m 31s): Go, go ahead. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (13m 32s): I was gonna say no, there’s like four cruises a year now that just cater to the lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (13m 37s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (13m 38s): So we got one coming up, going the Barcelona in June.

Speaker 1 (13m 41s): This is one of yours.

Speaker 2 (13m 43s): It’s one of them that I’ll be on because I have a contract with that crew with that cruise line or with that lifestyle group, that travel agency.

Speaker 1 (13m 51s): Hmm. So, so has your, has your experience in hospitality helped with that?

Speaker 2 (13m 57s): I think so. I mean, I was, I was in upper management and hospitality. I ran a couple of big hotels in California and I think anytime you have that on your, you know, you have that background, it, it allows you to, to be a better person and, and better read a room. So yeah, of course, of course the hospitality field helped.

Speaker 1 (14m 15s): Are you guys planning on doing some of your own events?

Speaker 2 (14m 19s): Currently? The only thing we do now is our annual ASN lifestyle magazine awards, which this year is this last year that it’ll be virtual next year. We’re planning on being live with people and we’re looking at Vegas.

Speaker 1 (14m 35s): Okay. But no cruises,

Speaker 2 (14m 38s): No cruises. Well, I mean, I have cruises, but I have them because of a contract I have with a certain travel company. Yeah. So yeah, we’re doing those, but we do ’em we report on the cruise when we’re, when we’re on the ship.

Speaker 1 (14m 49s): Okay. Okay. So the two of you are, are in the lifestyle yourself. I was gonna say swingers, but I won’t. Okay. How did you get started in the lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (15m 1s): You know, I just, I, I was young and I like to have sex, you know, it’s, it’s not like now where I’d rather use a sandwich

Speaker 1 (15m 8s): Different from anyone else.

Speaker 2 (15m 10s): I don’t think so, but yeah, that’s what it started with. It was just that. And then meeting some people that ended up were in the lifestyle, I got introduced to it and it just, it just, that’s where it started, you know? And then you have that conversation with your wife is when we got married, we weren’t in the lifestyle. It was, you know, this is something that I think we needed to have a discussion about and it worked, you know, it may have not worked, but I probably would still be doing the same business. I’m not, I’m not sure that I wouldn’t have changed.

Speaker 1 (15m 38s): Okay. So what happened by the way, excuse me, you started in, in 2011, what happened between 2011 and 2018?

Speaker 2 (15m 51s): We were actually shooting porn between 2011 and 2018. We owned a company called real Florida Housewives. Oh, okay. And that’s, that’s where we, we, that’s how we were able to slip into the lifestyle because of the, the people we knew.

Speaker 1 (16m 4s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (16m 5s): And then we went from that to where I was on a, I was part of triplex porn star radio, which is now no longer in business, but that’s, that’s kind of where I got my roots into the porn and meeting porn stars that were swingers and, and getting to meet those people. And, and it just, just exploded from there.

Speaker 1 (16m 26s): Yeah. No pun intended,

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): No pun intended.

Speaker 1 (16m 29s): So talk about how the business started and I’m sure you got some great stories about getting the business up and running

Speaker 2 (16m 39s): Well, yeah, it’s, it’s really funny. This came at the end of our, our, our contract with triplex porn star radio 2017. Hmm. We were sitting in the, I was sitting at my desk and we were starting the beginnings of this, of this magazine. And my wife said to me, she says, look, Michael, seriously, if you don’t do something of this business, I’m, I’m out, you know, I’m, I’m done, we’re gonna separate. And this is actually in the April issue of 2019.

It talks about everything that happened. But yeah. So I went in my office that night and I sold my first ad for the magazine that no one knew existed at that point. Wild. Yeah. And it’s funny is I sold the first ad for $30, you know, and we we’ve come a long way from that 30 bucks, but it was the first 30 bucks we made. And that was a turning point for us as a couple, as a business. And it just enhanced the relationship from there moving forward.

Speaker 1 (17m 41s): Yeah. That’s fantastic. So any other stories about getting started?

Speaker 2 (17m 47s): Not really. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, we, we, like I said, we’ve met a lot of people. We’ve used the knowledge that we’ve had from the lifestyle. I, I, I used, like I said, a lot of the people that I’ve, that I believed in, you know, what I’d call except the top echelon of those lifestyle. And I, and, and I cultivated those relationships. And when it was time to put the magazine together, I then called on them and they came in, they were in the magazine and stuff like that. I mean, we’ve had people from Playboy on the cover, you know, everyone put their foot forward to help us be successful.

So if, if it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t be here.

Speaker 1 (18m 22s): Now it occurs to me because you and I have connected and, and we’re doing business together. And, and we’re now an advertiser. Yes. It occurs to me that you guys are getting more mainstream. It, it seems like ASN is out there more people, more people know about it. Talk about that transformation.

Speaker 2 (18m 47s): That transformation is incredible. And, and I still look at her and I go, can you believe this? Because it’s only yesterday where we were struggling to, to, to make the 30 bucks. Hmm. And what we, the vision we’ve always had was produce the best quality magazine we can. Yeah. Just because we’re in this niche didn’t mean it had to be smutty. Oh yeah. And so we, we, we did our best. We, we, we often say that if GQ employee boy had a baby, it would be ASN lifestyle magazine.

Nice. So when we moved to the mainstream, which is what we, we’ve kind of done this route where right now we’re in the middle between the adult lifestyle and the lifestyle, I’m sorry, the adult industry and the lifestyle. And we’re now picking at that mainstream audience. And we did that on purpose we’ve even retailer, the award show so that it didn’t distinguish between whether you were a lifestyle or adult industry. Interesting. Because we, well, I just went back to the grassroots that we had because we were successful there. So why sure.

Reinvent the wheel when you already have it, just make it better. And, and that’s what we did. And, and we just focused on marketing. I mean, marketing, marketing, marketing, the message. Yeah. You know, we, we, we pride ourselves. We say, you know what, it’s all about the lifestyle, which, which it was, it’s all about the community. It’s all about the people that read our magazine. We listen to them, we talk to these people, you know, when they call up the phone, they actually get one of us. They don’t, they don’t get a voicemail. That’s what we do. We’re constant communication with the people that, that, that support the magazine and that pay to have their ads in the magazine, because that’s the backbone of our magazine as our advertisers.

Speaker 1 (20m 29s): Okay. So talk about the blending. And this is kind of a similar question, the blending of the mainstream adult industry with the lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (20m 41s): I think that started because when we started doing exotica with, I think at the time it was lifestyle X, or it was couples X, and now it’s lifestyle X. They had a little niche that, that was carved out for them in exotica, where they had the lifestyle, people had their boost. And that, you know, I, I looked at that one year and I I’m saying, well, okay, if the lifestyle can come to a, to an adult industry convention yeah. And coexist, then why can’t the magazine coexist with these same people?

Sure. So that’s kind of where it started. Then I, again, I went back to the people I knew and I said, Hey, what do you think this is? I wanna make this turn here. It’s, it’s not been done before. Do you think this is possible? And we were reassured, you know, they said, Michael, Sherry, you know what you guys do is brilliant. If you, we, we don’t see you failing. So just keep moving forward. We’ve never looked back.

Speaker 1 (21m 35s): Nice. Very nice. So now you talked, you referred earlier to your annual awards event. So get into some detail about what it’s all about, you know, the, you know, some of the categories, how does someone get nominated? And I I’m sure you’re excited about getting back to in-person events.

Speaker 2 (21m 57s): Oh, we can’t wait to get back to in-person events. The last award show we had in person was in Vegas and it was right before COVID hit. And then we’ve been off since then. We’ve been doing the awards show virtually. Yeah. But it’s not the same as having a room full of people. We, we still try to produce a, a show that, that we think they, like, we want them to sit there, to sit there for 46 minutes and watch which, from what we’re seeing, they did, they sat there and they watch for, there was people having watch parties last of the award show all over the country to see if they won awards.

So they going to their clubs and having these watch parties.

Speaker 1 (22m 35s): That’s very cool.

Speaker 2 (22m 36s): Yeah. And we did the award show on a Sunday, so most of these clubs were closed, so that reopened them, that allowed them to get revenue. And then they had people come in and watch to see if the, if their club won. That’s neat. So it was good.

Speaker 1 (22m 48s): That’s really neat.

Speaker 2 (22m 50s): Yeah. So I’m sorry. I just need you to, what was the other part of that question? Cause

Speaker 1 (22m 55s): So talk a bit about the award show, how it came about, you know, maybe some of the, some of the categories. Sure. What it’s all about and how does someone get nominated?

Speaker 2 (23m 9s): The award show came together through the fact that we’re a, we’re a publisher. And when you look at a lot of the award shows are backed by publishers, by magazines by by. So we thought, well, this was the next natural step for us and our progression of what we wanted to do. So we, again sat down with our, our inner circle, talked about what we wanted to do. And then the award show was born. Wow. Our second, our first year we actually just loaned our name out to, to another event.

But we, the award show was named the ASN lifestyle magazine awards, but it was hosted by another, another event in, in Vegas. Okay. The second year was we were on our own and it was a virtual event. And we, we changed between what you did in 19, sorry. In 2020 to 2021, where the nominations, you were nominated, anyone could be nominated. It didn’t matter where you came from, you could be nominated. And then we, we, then you would then voting would start. Now, the problem with that, that award show was, and we learned is that we had maybe 30, 40 people in the same category when it came time for voting.

So that obviously it was successful because people nominated and people voted, but it wasn’t conducive to us to have so many people in the same category. So for this year’s award show, we changed it up. And again, this is from learning and we’ll continue to learn and change, but this year nominations are open and we want you to constantly nominate, nominate, nominate, nominate. And then what we’re doing is we’re taking the top five nominations and then they’re gonna move on to the finals. Now, nominations end April 30th of this, this month.

And

Speaker 1 (24m 54s): I should say, I should say that. Tell everyone that we’re, we’re recording this on April 26th and they’ll be long over by the time this runs, sorry.

Speaker 2 (25m 3s): That’s true. Yeah. That’s true. Yeah. So, Hey, you know, predict winner maybe, but so then the award show start, the voting will start in may and then it’ll go to June and then we do our award show virtual event. We’re gonna do it a mansion here in Orlando, where I have the presenters coming in and they’re gonna do it. They’re all signed NDAs. So then no one talks about the award show and then we produce it and you’ll see it in September.

Speaker 1 (25m 31s): You will, you will be on before September. I do.

Speaker 2 (25m 34s): Okay.

Speaker 1 (25m 34s): We’ll see. Maybe no, we got these interviews booked out so far. I’m sorry. I

Speaker 2 (25m 40s): Hear you. No, no, no, it’s fine. But like you asked about categories. Yeah. Yeah. There, we have everything from best lifestyle crew. Oh, sorry. Best cruise company. Best travel company. Best resort. Best camgirl best fan site. Best public relations company. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we, we changed it up dramatically. Best

Speaker 1 (25m 60s): Website broker, best

Speaker 2 (26m 1s): Ex well, there is best website. So unfortunately I can’t nominate you. You have to have your people nominate you. That’s one thing people ask about the transparency of the awards and we’re very transparent there. Our awards are certified by a CPA every year who takes the votes and counts and then gives them back to us the day of, well for this year would be the day of that. We’re gonna do the production at the, at the house, the mansion that we’re gonna rent. Cool.

And that’s the first time we’ll actually see the results. When we go ahead and hand those envelopes to everybody

Speaker 1 (26m 36s): Sounds awesome.

Speaker 2 (26m 37s): Well, we did it because there’s so much controversy in this category, our event for something that should be, you know, joyous. It’s, it’s not like you’re, you’re winning a Nobel peace prize, you know? I mean, it’s nice that, that, that people are very competitive, but we’re not gonna sell out ourselves to, to, to, to, to R an event that should be fun. Yeah. So that’s why we go above and beyond the steps to prove that, you know, there’s never, ever gonna be a question.

No one can ever come back to ASN and say, Hey, you know, we kind of think that your award shows maybe a little hunky, cuz it’s not.

Speaker 1 (27m 18s): Yeah. I, I get that impression about some of the award shows, but we won’t talk about that. So, and it seems like from some of the categories, it’s definitely a lot of it is mainstream mainstream adult.

Speaker 2 (27m 31s): It, it, it is, but it’s a crossover. Cause you gotta remember two years of the pandemic, a lot of your lifestyle couples were now doing camming. Yep. They were doing camming. They were doing, they were doing anything they could. That generated income. Of course. So that’s where this came from. So, and there’s such a really now 20, 22, there’s such a, it’s very hard to see the difference almost between someone that is in the adult industry and someone that’s into the lifestyle because those lives parallel. They go, they really go side by side.

Speaker 1 (28m 0s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (28m 1s): And, and it’s incredible. So that, that’s why we took the direction we did. And that’s why we took off the word lifestyle in the awards, even though they’re called the ASN lifestyle magazine awards.

Speaker 1 (28m 11s): That’s awesome. Now you offer people the chance to become models. So what are you, what are you, what kind of models are you looking for? What are the models, images and videos used for and do they have to come see you in person? Or could they send you images?

Speaker 2 (28m 31s): Actually? No, they they’d never have to come see us in person. I mean, it’s in the Orlando market then. Yeah. We would meet up for lunch or coffee just to have a conversation. But what they do is they would go to our, our corporate site, ASN entertainment.com and they would fill out a mall registration. And basically that’s all the legal moment jumbo protects us with the us, says, you know us 2 57. Yeah. Right. That way we have it on file. And then basically they pick there’s this categories of what we offer for the magazine.

And then they, they go ahead and check what they want. And then what we do is in my, my wife would get ’em my CFO. And then she goes through ’em and she actually makes first contact and then schedules, whether we’re gonna have a video conference or meet in person. And sometimes the model can get into the magazine right away. Sometimes it may take six months to a year for that performer or model to get into the magazine.

Speaker 1 (29m 26s): Hmm. Okay. And so you’re just, you’re basically putting images in the magazine.

Speaker 2 (29m 34s): Well, we have images. We usually ask when, when a typical, let’s say a lifestyle couple comes and they say, you know, we’d like to go, go ahead and be in your magazine. Well, that’s great, but we want a little more substance. So we asked for, give us your bio, what’s your story? What, what makes you unique? What, what brought you to the lifestyle or what brought you to the adult industry? Why, why should people, why should our readers read about you? What makes you different? And they usually, they like that. Sure. So we usually get between 1500 to 3000 words, five to 10 pictures.

And that goes in as a pictorial, we allow them to go ahead and link to different their social media. Cool. At the end. And it it’s, you know, so far it’s worked out really well. I mean, I think we, we have the secret sauce for success.

Speaker 1 (30m 18s): Now, speaking of the secret sauce, I don’t know how much of this you want to give away. What advice would you give to someone thinking of starting their own lifestyle magazine?

Speaker 2 (30m 29s): Don’t give up, be persistent. You’re gonna fail. You’re gonna fail over and over again. In fact, I have a plaque on my desk that says very simple success comes from failure. Yeah. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve failed. So my biggest advice is, Hey, gimme a call. I’d be more happy to talk to you. There’s so much room in this, in this, in this space that I’ll never shut the door down from someone that wants to go ahead and advance themselves and do something like this. Nice. I think that, you know, that creates competition and competition is good.

Speaker 1 (31m 0s): I agree with you. And I like the fact you’re not gonna do to them. What the industry did to you initially.

Speaker 2 (31m 8s): Right? Well, it happens, but I believe in paying it forward and that’s, as long as I live by that mantra and I live with good karma, good things will happen.

Speaker 1 (31m 17s): Hey, who knows? Maybe someday they’ll buy out and I’ll broker. Maybe that

Speaker 2 (31m 24s): Be fine. We’d have to figure out a way for, to stay on board though, because I it’s it’s, you know, it’s funny that you say that because it is very hard to, and I think maybe cuz we’re owners to give the keys to someone else to produce the magazine. It’s very to, to me. Yeah. No one knows what I do, but it’s a process usually takes me between 19 to 25 days to produce a typical magazine that runs around 180, 190 pages. Hmm. And that’s layout, that’s that’s links.

That’s everything that needs to be in it. It’s crazy, but it’s a lot. And I don’t know if I’m ready to show somebody that yet. Sure. My wife tells me I have to because there’s other projects that we’re moving on to that that are gonna need more of my time. So it may happen sooner than later.

Speaker 1 (32m 12s): And I will, I will attest to the fact that Michael is extremely hands on. He’s extremely hands on. So you talked about other projects when, what you got coming up.

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): Ah, we have something that’s launching soon. We’re trying to launch it before July. It’s gonna be called the ASN hub.

Speaker 1 (32m 30s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (32m 31s): And the hub is gonna be really what it is. It’s gonna be the hub. It’s gonna be the repository for all the articles that you see in the magazine. We do this to help the advertisers get a, a better ROI, better return on their investment because now they get their magazine that goes out. It’s there. But now when someone comes to the hub, they’re gonna see all these active articles all the time.

Speaker 1 (32m 53s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (32m 53s): So it’s that part. It’s also, we’re becoming, we’re gonna be a de repository for everyone that has press releases and we’re gonna store all those press releases from all over the place. Nice. And then share that information. We started it with the entertainment because obviously I, I, we handle some your PR. Yes, but we’re gonna expand it. Oh, it’s our pleasure. But we’re gonna expand it. So it benefits the person writing the PR the person that’s the PR is about and the overall, you know, synergy of the community in the industry.

Speaker 1 (33m 25s): Cool. So,

Speaker 2 (33m 26s): And that, that’s the second thing. And I don’t know if I could talk about the third thing yet, cuz we’re still in development of it.

Speaker 1 (33m 32s): Okay. If you tell me you’ll have to kill me and all my and more and how that hub, that’s more back links, man. We’re always looking for that stuff. So I appreciate it. Oh yeah. And I’m sure everybody will. So what advice would you give to someone who’s thinking of getting into the lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (33m 50s): Huh? That’s a good question. Because I think a lot of people get into the lifestyle for the wrong reasons. You have to really almost have that conversation with yourself, asking, you know, why, what is it about the lifestyle that you’re attracted to that makes you want to go this route? A lot of people do it because guys do it because they want, they, you know, they’re oh, I wanna have sex with lots of women.

Speaker 1 (34m 12s): I wanna get laid. Yeah. Well isn’t that? What all isn’t that? What all young single guys do and not, not necessarily young,

Speaker 2 (34m 19s): But, but, but you know what? That’s not what it, that’s not what it’s about. That’s not how it works. So when they come in with that connotation, it sets a bad tone. Sure. Or they, they force their girlfriend or wife to do it because this is something they, they want to do. Right. And then that ends badly. Oh yeah. Really have to have that conversation at heart to heart. It’s no different than someone that’s in BDSM. And then after a session, you have to have that, that recovery, you know, the, that repair because you, you, you’re doing something that you don’t typically do in life.

Right? And then you have to, you gotta get back together. You, the best thing that I suggest is that go visit a club, go visit down here in Florida. We have trapeze. We have secret ti away, go visit those and see, you can get a day pass at many of these places, get an idea for what it is. A lot of these places will also give you a tour and show you different things and explain a little bit more detail. But at the end of the day, you have to, it comes from the gut because not everybody’s built for this, just like not everybody could do what you do. Not everybody could be a professional basketball player.

It takes a certain caliber of human being to put themselves and maybe watch their wife being screwed by somebody or, or whatever, because it’s, it’s a different mindset.

Speaker 1 (35m 31s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (35m 32s): So kind of compare it to porn. I think that’s why porn actors, actors are able to, to, to go back and forth. Right. You know, I, I have a lot of friends that are in the lifestyle that, that, that do porn as well. And they’ve been around for many, many years.

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): Sure, sure. Now ASN is a business. Are there any types of content or any organizations you’d to include in your publications on general principles?

Speaker 2 (35m 57s): Anything that’s hate? We won’t, we won’t publish. I mean, that’s just common decency really hate. We don’t want to get into politics that much. Although if you’re gonna write a piece, that’s an opinion piece we have from time to time allowed them to come in. It just really depends on what the relevancy is to the lifestyle or to the industry. If it has a connection, then, then we more likely will allow it to come in. But definitely no hate, no discrimination, no antisemites, none of that stuff that you would, you would seize other places.

We just don’t, we won’t put up with it. All ideas is to provide a space that people like enjoy and want to come back to.

Speaker 1 (36m 39s): Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So now, if someone wants to advertise their event, their podcast or their product, what should they know and how should they go about

Speaker 2 (36m 49s): It? We have currently, if you went to ASN ol magazine.com and you went to, we have this big button that this is advertised with us, ah, simply click on that. It takes you to where you’ll see the different ad sizes that we offer talks about. The different packages that we have are also is our latest media kit is there as well. So you can see our reach, our audience, our demographics and stuff like that. And the companies that do really well in the magazine. So that’s all for everybody to see. And then if they still have more questions, they could always pick up a phone, call me or call Sherry and we’d be more happy to, to talk to them about it.

Our, a typical advertiser has saved with us from the beginning. We, I think the pandemic, we lost two clubs because they closed down. They’re no longer in business. Sure. And we had one fallout that went away, but they were with us for four years and it, we were friends and it was a personal issue and we decided that we didn’t want their business.

Speaker 1 (37m 49s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (37m 49s): Okay. But other than that, and I always say to a potential advertiser, go through our magazine, pick an ad at random and call ’em and ask. ’em why they’re in the magazine.

Speaker 1 (37m 59s): Nice.

Speaker 2 (37m 60s): Because that’s the only way that that’s the best way to sell it because I can tell you all day that, you know, I’m gonna sell you this car. I’m gonna tell you all the great things about it. But I want you to know what’s under the hood and why is this the car for you? Sure. So if you go talk to a club or somebody out in far right field, that’s in the, in the magazine, ask them why, well, one, how long have you been with the magazine and why are you still here?

Speaker 1 (38m 21s): Yeah. How’s it working?

Speaker 2 (38m 22s): Yeah. That’s it. Exactly. And you know, and 99% of ’em are gonna say, because they, they get a return and they’re, they like the relationship, the one-on-one that we give them, we reach out to them every couple of months say, Hey, do you wanna change up your ad? Do you wanna do this? Let’s you know, how can we target market for you better? You know? Yeah. Yeah. So we’re constantly hands on that way. And then the, I just lost my train of thought. The other thing was

Speaker 1 (38m 49s): Mine jumps the track on a regular basis.

Speaker 2 (38m 50s): It does. I just watched it hop to track, but it’s just, we’re there for everybody, you know? I mean, is it for everybody? No, but, but is it, is it for a lot of people? Yes. I mean, we currently have businesses in the magazine that aren’t even in the lifestyle of detail industry. Right. You know, I have urologists, I have plastic surgeons. I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 (39m 10s): They’re in Florida, you’re in Florida, you have plastic surgeons. How’d they find you.

Speaker 2 (39m 15s): I took, it took a while, but they found me, You know, and we offer a really competitive ad package. You know, we, we, I think we’re the cheapest in the business. I definitely, if you were to, now, I know we’re not Playboy, but if you were to compare us to Playboy Playboy charges, $5,000 for a quarter page ad to run one time, you know, our, our starting rate for a year contract is $500. It was supposed to go up because of the pandemic. We haven’t had an increase, but we’ve also never hit our ceiling.

So we’ve had no resistance to our price increases over the last few years. So we are due for one. We’re gonna wait and do it in 2023.

Speaker 1 (39m 54s): That’s probably wise. Yeah. Now your magazine features a lot of big names in the swinger’s world. Do you get a chance to meet these people a lot?

Speaker 2 (40m 3s): Absolutely. That that’s one of the greatest perks about this business in the magazine is I do get to meet a lot of these people. We’ve right. Lately it seems like we’re running, we’re doing a lot of CEOs, you know, and women in the sex tech business. And it’s great. It’s, it’s really, it’s re re refigured a lot of things that we’re, we’re trying to give everybody what they want and, you know, cultivating again, these are new relationships that we, that we’re making and they tell their people, Hey, you know what?

You should be in the magazine. And I’ll tell you where a lot of my CEOs come from. I have a very active LinkedIn account. Hmm. And I’m constantly in the conversations about sex tech, about lifestyle. Yeah. About anything that has to do with the sex injuries, sex workers. We, we just did a, a deal with Mustang ranch. Oh, wow. Out in Reno, Nevada, not the pro side

Speaker 1 (40m 56s): Of it, of my childhood,

Speaker 2 (40m 59s): Not the Broel side, but we brought on their executive chef as our, as our new contributor

Speaker 1 (41m 4s): Never met him.

Speaker 2 (41m 6s): Well, he’s, he’s been there for 14 years, I think now.

Speaker 1 (41m 10s): Yeah. Still have never met him anyway.

Speaker 2 (41m 14s): No, but so, I mean, that’s, that’s what we do. You know, we had a really,

Speaker 1 (41m 17s): I didn’t, I didn’t go there to eat

Speaker 2 (41m 18s): Well, they have good steak, just so you

Speaker 1 (41m 22s): Know. Okay. It’s good to know. I’ll I’ll keep, I’ll keep that in mind for the future. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (41m 26s): No, no. Unfortunately I go out there for business.

Speaker 1 (41m 30s): So what do you wish people understood about the lifestyle

Speaker 2 (41m 34s): That they need to hold their judgment and actually get to know someone or ask questions about it and not just take what they see on TV and what they read in the paper or the news. Cause that’s, that’s not, that’s not, that’s not true. There was a piece that was done in LA about a club that was rated during the pandemic. That was a lifestyle party and they, they compared it to sex trafficking. Oh lovely. It’s you can’t be further

Speaker 1 (41m 60s): From yeah. But yeah, but doesn’t the media compare everything in our industry to sex trafficking.

Speaker 2 (42m 4s): Yeah. They, they crazy. They do because they, you know, the media isn’t media anymore, the media’s entertainment. Yep. So that’s how they, that’s how they, they pay their bills and click. I’m not gonna get in there cuz I have a whole different

Speaker 1 (42m 18s): It’s all click bait.

Speaker 2 (42m 19s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we give it to you straight, you know, we actually, here’s the other thing I have you asked for it. We have it, we have Michael photography. We have one the, the, the leading adult entertainment attorneys that writes for us.

Speaker 1 (42m 33s): Oh Michael. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42m 35s): Also. Yep. Michael writes for us. Yeah. You know, so I mean we cover every basis. So I mean, he just got done doing a five page, sorry. A five month article on, on only fans and, and about the lifestyle about these people trying to get into it, making sure they’re protected and stuff like that. So I mean, it’s, it’s a great tool. So we try, if we don’t have it, we try to get it, you know, the, the magazine covers travel. It covers real estate, which you would find real estate. Yeah. We’ve sold six homes out of the magazine.

Speaker 1 (43m 6s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (43m 7s): You know, so it’s, it’s realtors out there, you know, Hey, we, we have a really good package for you. If you wanna put your real estate in.

Speaker 1 (43m 13s): And there’s also stakes at the Mustang ranch that, you know, if there’s one thing I learned today, that’s, that’s probably the greatest one now. Now, where do you think I’m kidding? Where do you think the swinging scene needs to change and improve?

Speaker 2 (43m 28s): I think that’s going to, that’s gonna come on the techno technology side. Hmm. I think you’re gonna see the websites that are older. That, that look like they’ve been around since, I don’t know, since I was a baby, they that’s where, where the money’s gonna be spent. Yep. That’s where the changes are gonna, you’re gonna see in applications such as apps and websites, you’re gonna see these resorts. There’s new resorts popping up to KR lifestyle. I think desire just opened up two new resorts in the Dominican.

Hmm. So there’s, there’s more of it coming around. It’s not in your face, but it’s there. And if you’re in the scene, you know where, where to go to get, see, go to visit these places.

Speaker 1 (44m 14s): Now, how do you think people in the lifestyle are different between the USA and Europe?

Speaker 2 (44m 20s): Oh gosh. Between the difference between the USA and Europe. We’re we’re, we’re, we’re nothing compared to Europe. Europe is so much more laid back. Just, I mean, they will actually put, put the name of their Springer’s club on the wall outside here. It’s it’s, that’s taboo. You don’t put the name of it. You just put the address and people show up and you go and they go through a door, you know, nondescript in Europe there very open, they’re open to nudity. They’re open to their sexuality. It’s just, it’s a good experience for you to go to Europe and experience that.

Yeah. Because it’s like no weather. You, you, when you go to Europe and see that and you come home, you go, oh my God, we’re so close minded.

Speaker 1 (45m 2s): You know? Well, you turn on TV there and there’s sex on TV. It’s not, you know, it’s not, it’s not hidden on cable.

Speaker 2 (45m 10s): I, I remember the first time as a kid, we were watching mash and I heard Alan Alda say bullshit. That was the big thing back in the day, you know? And, and then when I lived in Canada with my wife on bringing TV, there’s a Sopranos and there’s a sex scene, you know? Wow. Here in the states, you had to watch the Sopranos on HBO.

Speaker 1 (45m 28s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 29s): Not in Canada.

Speaker 1 (45m 30s): Yeah. Pretty crazy now. Yes. Where can someone find ASN on social media and how can they contact you?

Speaker 2 (45m 38s): Oh gosh. On social media. We’re on Twitter at ASN ASN lifestyle mag. Okay. We’re on Pinterest is ASN lifestyle mag. Okay. We’re on Facebook ASN lifestyle magazine. And where else are we Twitter? Facebook.

Speaker 1 (45m 59s): I don’t know. Where

Speaker 2 (45m 59s): Are you? Oh, Instagram ASN LS. Mag.

Speaker 1 (46m 3s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (46m 4s): Very good. Yeah. And then we’re on most of the, the adult swinging lifestyle sites, STC as ASN entertainment. Casty as ASN lifestyle magazine and as ASN lifestyle magazine.

Speaker 1 (46m 22s): Beautiful. Now I, if you started all over again, what would you have done differently?

Speaker 2 (46m 29s): I don’t think I would do anything differently. And the reason I say that was because yes, it was hard. Yeah. And I had to, and, and I lost my ass and I lost money. I think it was still the best experience I could have had cuz through that experience is how I grew. And now I’m able to help other people. Yeah. You know, like you had said earlier, there wasn’t anybody helping me, you know, we either fell in our ass or, or we made it and we decided we were gonna make it. Sure. So being able to, to have that experience and, and that foundation is what allows us to move forward and continue to grow.

Now, I believe we’re continuing to grow every day and every month and every year something’s different gonna be about the magazine that had didn’t happen the year before.

Speaker 1 (47m 13s): That’s awesome. Well, Michael, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon,

Speaker 2 (47m 21s): Bruce. I appreciate it. And it it’s really a pleasure to speak with you and, and to hear your voice for the first time.

Speaker 1 (47m 27s): Yes, indeed. My broker tip today is part seven of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement in escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owner’s participation will be after the sale you’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things.

If you don’t have experience in these areas, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult business consulting. You can get more information on what this company does@adultbusinessconsulting.com. We help website owners, project manage and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right pieces in place, processing, hosting, payments, production, scripts, et cetera. Or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help.

Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting firm to help evaluate all of these items and everything, the site is spending money on and using to operate the site, make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better. Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service. Many times a server is just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website.

Next week. we’ll talk about how to sell a site and next week we’ll be speaking with sex toy expert Kim Airs. And that’s it for this week’s adult site broker talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, Michael Ramos, talk to you again next week on adult site broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Gavin Worrall of Verify my Age and Verify my Content.
ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker would like to announce we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts! That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral. 
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.
Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale a content company that stood the test of time. They recently redesigned and relaunch their site with a completely new front and back end and an all new automated FTP system. Since that time sales have soared, the site now has over 50,000 scenes, 50,000 photo sets, 10,000 DVDs, and over 10,000 models. Their content represents the top studios in the adult industry.
They have exclusive content with some of their studios and thousands of raw HD scenes yet to be used plus close to 10,000 HD scenes that can generate revenue from VOD or P P V. This company can be kept as is or turned into a massive tube site membership site, or clip store with an incredible amount of content. Only 1.75 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Gavin worl of verify my age and verify my content.
Gavin, thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,
Speaker 2 (2m 22s): Bruce, thank you for having me. I know I’ve been character.
Speaker 1 (2m 29s): We were supposed, we were supposed to do this one about eight months ago, but I know
Speaker 2 (2m 33s): Exactly.
Speaker 1 (2m 34s): I know since, since the new product you’ve been pretty busy, so I’ll let you off the hook this time, but don’t let it happen again. Okay. So let’s tell everyone about you for the past 20 years, Gavin has worked across a wide range of sectors, mainly in financial services, such as corporate finance, consumer lending banking. I won’t hold it against you, PSPS and FX. He has vast experience working in regulated markets. Having spent over a decade with the well respected banking group, close brothers in the UK, which is listed on the foot C two 50.
His passion is in sales. So we share that where he is a fellow for the Institute of sales professionals, and I’m not. And often mentors and develops up and coming graduates. He’s driven by the desire to solve business problems often created by regulators don’t. We know that and the adult sector is an exciting and challenging area to develop. That’s an understatement. Finally, he is a south African born Brit lives in the UK, so he has a great accent, travels the globe. Speaking about the benefits of verify my age and verify my content.
How was that for a commercial?
Speaker 2 (3m 42s): Fantastic. I’m going to, I’m gonna bring you on board. That was brilliant.
Speaker 1 (3m 46s): Okay. Sounds good. So besides what I just covered, Gavin, tell me a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (3m 53s): So yeah, I guess Bruce, the, the most exciting element for me in what we do is solve these issues that are coming about by regulators. So, so from my point of view, I’m someone that enjoys unpacking all of this regulation identifying.
Speaker 1 (4m 13s): So you’re the one. So you’re the one.
Speaker 2 (4m 16s): Yeah. So, so regulators are often the bad guy, right? They often seen as the bad guy and, and we find ways to actually step back and look at what they’re trying to achieve and then deliver something that is quick and simple and frictionless to the industry. There are number of rules and regulations that are constantly coming out, right? So anyone within the financial industry, it’s a massive headache. And what we always do is just find technological means to satisfy those regulators.
So it doesn’t impact the business. Right. Simple as that.
Speaker 1 (4m 53s): Right. Right.
Speaker 2 (4m 54s): And we’ve got, and I’ve brought that same philosophy mindset. Yeah. To verify my age in content, especially within the adult sector, because well, there’s regulation everywhere and there’s only gonna be more of it. I’m afraid. It’s it’s certainly not gonna go away.
Speaker 1 (5m 9s): Sure, sure. Yeah. I think, I think age verification is going to be everywhere.
Speaker 2 (5m 16s): It is. There’s there’s no getting away from it. From alcohol in store, from purchasing alcohol online to the adult entertainment sector. Sure. It’s it’s it’s, that’s just gonna be the bottom line. Sure. And look at the end of the day, when you look at our children, Bruce, all they do is live on social media. I’ve I often don’t have any clue what my kid, what my kids are looking at or what they’re doing.
Speaker 1 (5m 44s): I’m pretty safe.
Speaker 2 (5m 45s): I just have dogs, I think to a certain extent
Speaker 1 (5m 47s): Our dogs aren’t our dogs. Aren’t online. Oh, you look good thing.
Speaker 2 (5m 50s): Oh, you’re lucky, man. You’re lucky, man.
Speaker 1 (5m 54s): Well, what about you? What about you personally? So, you know, what, what do you like to do? Tell us about yourself outside of work.
Speaker 2 (6m 3s): Yeah, sure. So I’m a, I’m a very sporting individual being from South Africa originally. I love my rugby.
Speaker 1 (6m 12s): Of course.
Speaker 2 (6m 13s): So every weekend I’m with my boy watching him play rugby and nice. And my, and my wife, she stays at home because she can’t take the fact that we have these very big lads hitting each other very D very hard. And she had preferred just to stay at home, get a text message.
Speaker 1 (6m 35s): It’s it’s like American football without pads,
Speaker 2 (6m 38s): Without the pads. That’s it. It’s crazy. Isn’t it? I
Speaker 1 (6m 42s): Think’s a great sport.
Speaker 2 (6m 44s): Oh, it’s a lovely sport. It’s I think it’s a great certainly for, for teenagers, you know, Bruce coming up and they got all that excess testosterone they need to get rid of. It’s a, it’s a great sport
Speaker 1 (6m 57s): To just give me some.
Speaker 2 (6m 60s): Yeah.
Speaker 1 (7m 2s): I’m 64 and I’m growing tits. Come on, give some of that test.
Speaker 2 (7m 8s): So
Speaker 1 (7m 8s): You were, you were starting, you were starting to say about your wife. Sorry. I interrupted.
Speaker 2 (7m 12s): No, she just hates it. She hates the sport. I can understand why she’s looking at her little boy, come home with broken limbs and a broken eye socket and
Speaker 1 (7m 21s): My God.
Speaker 2 (7m 23s): So she, she likes to, and then you got my daughter on the other hand who just refuses to do any type of sport. She just preferred to either read a book or actually probably spends too much time on social media to be fair.
Speaker 1 (7m 36s): Don’t they? Yeah. How, how old were your kids?
Speaker 2 (7m 39s): 17 and 15 now. Oh, wow. So, so we get into that point where it’s university in six months for my son. Oh my God. And then my daughter goes into her senior year as well. So it makes you feel very old. I must say I feel like an old man. Although I feel, I feel like I’m still in my twenties, Bruce. I feel like I’m still in my, yeah.
Speaker 1 (7m 59s): Yeah. I’m I’m 64. I don’t wanna fucking hear it anyway. So, so now you come from mainstream, primarily finance. How has your experience been so far working in the adult space?
Speaker 2 (8m 12s): So I guess there a lot of transferable skills that we have brought across primarily around understanding regulation. And when we look at the adult industry, we’ve taken that viewpoint. Let’s just look at what is the regulation that’s currently in Setu and what do we know is going to be coming around the corner? Right. So in many respects, it’s very similar from a regulatory point of view, but it has, it has been eye-opening for us for, for those of us that are, are new to the adult industry.
Yeah. Only from a point of view of, you know, the, we didn’t think there was as much adult entertainment out there is what there is. Oh God. And I, I think as we started to get into it, our, our eyes were opening and going, wow, this is massive. This is, there’s so much bigger than what we thought it would
Speaker 1 (9m 5s): Be. There’s tons. Yeah. There’s tons. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (9m 8s): How about,
Speaker 1 (9m 9s): How about the people you’ve dealt with?
Speaker 2 (9m 10s): Oh, absolutely. Fantastic. Absolutely loved it. I think what I love about this industry is the, although it’s a, a vast industry, it’s a small community. Yes. And, and I think we all work in with a common goal at the end of the day, you know, which is, you know, this is our business. We wanna make it succeed and develop. So everyone is willing to have open conversations and discussions, Bruce it’s. It is, it is so different to obviously the financial sector.
This is an environment where you can actually make things happen for the good, whether it’s for your business, whether it’s for the community, whether it’s for a social reason. And, and I think that’s what we really enjoying so far.
Speaker 1 (9m 58s): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It it’s a family. I, I say it on almost every show when I talk to people, this is a big family and just like any family it’s got it’s good and bad, but for the most part, some
Speaker 2 (10m 13s): It’s good.
Speaker 1 (10m 13s): Yeah. Yeah. Very cool people. So tell us more about verify my age and how it can help companies in our space.
Speaker 2 (10m 23s): Probably the best way to answer that is just to give you a quick overview of how we came about. So two year two coming on three years now, actually we we’re a group of entrepreneurs who were selling age restricted products, but the incumbents that were in the market at the time, just, just weren’t up to scratch. So the decision was made to build our own form of technology to help our own business at the time. And I think that’s what separates us from a lot of the other players in the market, Bruce, because we’ve got that empathy of understanding what the end users going through.
So we’ve designed and developed very far my age to help streamline that and make it as effortless and as frictionless as possible. Okay. But then on the other side, we also understand what a business is going through, which is they need to have the highest possible pass rate. So very far, my age was designed to provide maximum methodologies around age verification. So if you were purchasing a form of alcohol, there would be six or seven different methods that you could use to get verified.
So therefore maximizing that opportunity. So the business was, was built with that in mind. And we have gradually moved and developed into all forms of age restricted sectors at the is one of our biggest, one of, of our largest customers on the age verification side of the world is eBay. So you purchase anything from eBay that’s age restricted.
It has to come through our form of technology in order to approve it before the product can be shipped out. Okay. So we, so we’ve got this great tech, that’s doing all of this. We we’ve developed our team over the last two to three years. So we’ve got guys in Australia, the us, and in Brazil who are helping develop our product and sell it and, and put it in front of organizations that, that need to consider a form of age assurance and, and content moderation.
And I think then over the years, we’ve just looked at that tech and developed it. We’ve streamlined. It we’ve in many respects, tried to perfect. What’s already out there for the, for the adult industry.
Speaker 1 (12m 49s): Did you guys come about with the regulations that have been on again, off again on again in the UK with, with adults?
Speaker 2 (12m 58s): So that’s interesting. It’s a good question there, because I’m asked it quite often. So very far my age came about simply to solve an existing eCommerce problem, which was bad age verification providers. Hmm. Then as we start noticed the UK regulations starting to kick in, we started to therefore develop that same, that same pack of, of, of, of product, okay. To satisfy the UK rigs. Right.
But to be fair, the tech was already there. So there wasn’t much that needed to be done.
Speaker 1 (13m 32s): Hmm. And, and how has the on again, off again on again, UK and other country laws affected you guys?
Speaker 2 (13m 41s): A lot of what we do Bruce, is we try to almost embed ourselves with regulators as much as we possibly can. Yeah. So we can UN so we can understand what’s coming. So although the UK was, was on and off the way they were, I think we still have a strong belief it’s gonna be on right. At some point. So yeah, the, the tech is there to be deployed as, and when it’s needed. But what we’ve been able to do is therefore diversify that very far, my age product, right.
To satisfy new regulations, like MasterCard coming out with their change to, to, to their standards. So it didn’t have a negative effect on us because our core business was in the FM at the time. So in many respects it, us a bit of a favor because we were able to improve that technology even more so.
Speaker 1 (14m 36s): Yeah. And, and, you know, here’s the thing, as we talk, talking about adults, since this is our, our main focus here, nobody in our industry that I know of anyway, wants kids to be able to access porn. In fact, we even have an organization, the association for the, as a C P I forget what it stands stands for, but I’m sure you’ve had contacted with Tim Henning and it’s fully funded by the adult industry to stop people from stop kids from accessing porn and stop underage people from being in porn.
So I don’t think anybody wants kids to access porn or kids or underage kids to be, you know, in adult, unless they’re very sick people and the mainstream adult world doesn’t deal with those people. So it might, as a parent, this must be a bit of a crusade for you.
Speaker 2 (15m 35s): It’s interesting. When you look at the UK, there is often a conversation amongst the education sector of the rape culture within schools. And that is primarily come about by the easy access to pornography. I mean, Bruce, I might be showing my age here, but when I was growing up, I thought there were perhaps in fact, not just as I was growing up in my later years, I thought there were maybe two or three porn sites.
And that’s it, there’s a lot of
Speaker 1 (16m 7s): People who still think that
Speaker 2 (16m 9s): I’ve, I’ve about 17 year old son, educate me on different sites that I thought didn’t exist.
Speaker 1 (16m 15s): Excellent. Excellent.
Speaker 2 (16m 16s): So, so I think it is interesting how, how easy it is to get access to it. Sure. I, I do. I do think, and I totally agree with you what person in their say in mind would want to place children at harm and put them on a porn site. Sure. A it’s going to negatively impact their business as we know it’s happened. So therefore, why would they even consider doing that? Right. The problem is, as you know, is your unscrupulous individuals who are doing this type of thing. So this is, and again, this leads very much into what we do, which is, it’s less about trying to avoid those negative content uploads from taking place.
Right. But more but more so protecting their business to make sure it never happens. So their business continues to thrive. Yeah. Right. It was, I was at the conference in Vegas a few weeks ago. And again, what you’ve just said was mimicked at that conference, which is compliance is important. Yes. The whole MasterCard rules are annoying, but everyone agreed, you know, if this is what needs to take place in order to protect our businesses from the unscrupulous and let’s just do it, right.
Speaker 1 (17m 36s): Yeah, yeah. No, there’s no two ways about it. So let’s just say that I’m in a country that requires age verification. There are some now, and I go to a site that employs your company to do age verification. Tell me a little bit about the process. I go on the website. I go to buy what happens then?
Speaker 2 (17m 57s): So typically what will happen is we’ll go through a form of what we call age estimation. So the very far, my age product is highly geared towards a frictionless easy experience for the user. So the way we do that is we use our tech. We’d ask someone to stare into the camera and our technology will give an estimation of age and interesting that very, and that barrier can be set from high to low Bruce.
We, we have some countries that say, right, we want a minimum of 25 so that if anyone gets through that age estimation, we can be absolutely certain. They are 18 years and above. Okay. And then others toggle that down to the age of 21. Right. But the technology is highly sophisticated. It, it has been built over years to get as close to the age as possible. There’s and what I mean by that is the age estimation will give a potential difference or between one to one and a half years.
Yeah. So it’s important that the top set correctly. So that’s the one way to do it. The other way is we have developed a number of other methods. So if the age estimation, for example fails, we then allow the user to choose another method that could be identity document gets held up to the camera and that gets read. It could be an email address. So we can actually identify when an email was taken out or how often it is utilized. So that gives us an idea that if someone took out an email account 15 years ago, we can make a reasonable assumption there over the years of 18 or 21 dependent on which territory they they’re
Speaker 1 (19m 42s): In. No, that’s interesting. Wow. Wow. Interesting stuff. So, and I would imagine the camera technology is all using AI.
Speaker 2 (19m 49s): Absolutely. A hundred percent AI. Interesting. When we, when we look to and we’ll touch on very far more content, I’m sure we then also leverage human individuals if there’s a borderline case. Yeah. Cause I think, I think the, the, the content world is a little different. We need to be a little more sophisticated because we talking about revenues, we talking about business businesses trying to make an income. So we use a more sophisticated suite of tech there to ensure that the uploader of the content is who they are, who they say they are and they meet all of that rigs.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. It’s the technology is just incredible on how it’s developing.
Speaker 1 (20m 30s): Sounds like it, it sounds like it. So what exactly do you do in your position,
Speaker 2 (20m 35s): Bruce? We just, well, for me, it’s just about ready safeguarding a company’s revenue. That that’s my core business goal. So we work or I work with many businesses who, who may not be compliant in, in different forms. Right. They may, they may do some things associated to, for example, 2 25, 7, and there might be others that think that they are doing all the right things. And, and my core function really is to work with those businesses, solve those issues, but in doing so, it’s very much for us about building a long term partnership.
You know, we, we don’t see ourselves as, as a supplier of technology. We are not a supplier. We are a partner. So, and that for me has a very long reaching description from, you know, we help, if we need to lobby governments, we help lobby for example, MasterCard. And we try to pull everything we can out of those organizations. So we can help the businesses we work with understand what’s actually required. Cause often the regulator will say something, no one knows what it means though.
And we, we then have to come back and try, they have their own language. What exactly. Yeah. What exactly are they referring to here? Because we don’t get it.
Speaker 1 (21m 58s): I love it. So what, what motivates you to do what you do for your clients?
Speaker 2 (22m 5s): I think it’s that I love solving those problems. You know, Bruce often, often businesses will look at regulation as a massive barrier to doing business. Yes. And almost, almost off putting to a certain extent. And I think when myself and my team, you know, lift the hood and we get in there and we can show businesses that it’s not as scary or as interrupting as what they think it’s going to be, we can help them thrive.
And, and that’s what motivates us.
Speaker 1 (22m 37s): Nice. So let’s talk more about the verify, my content product. So that’s the new one. How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (22m 46s): So I mean, this for me is a very, very exciting product and development. So as we were touching on earlier age verification has its place in the marketplace. We, we see it, we see it developing at different speeds across the globe. So we, we have it in France at the minute and we know Germany or putting in play. And the, and the UK dare say have come out again, say in 20, 23, they’re gonna implement it.
Speaker 1 (23m 17s): We’ll
Speaker 2 (23m 20s): What we know now is the fact that MasterCard came out with a change to, to their rules means that it’s having an impact on porn sites today and something needs to be done today. And absolutely we, so, so we developed the very far my age product to allow us to provide adult entertainment businesses with a one API that satisfies all of those requirements for MasterCard.
Our, our focus was about saying to these businesses, don’t be afraid of this regulation it’s to stay first and foremost. So we have a very simple means for you to get on the right side of this regulation. And if, and you know, if they, if they don’t, we, we have another scenario like we had with some of the other large sites that were shut off and we see that just going to continue unless something real can get done about
Speaker 1 (24m 23s): Sadly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24m 24s): The, yeah. The requirements that, that MasterCard are setting out.
Speaker 1 (24m 27s): Yeah. So tell me more about verify my content and how is it beneficial for both content creators and the platforms?
Speaker 2 (24m 37s): Sure. So I think above all the verify, my content product is about having peace of mind, both from a, a merchant, a site that’s allowing content to be uploaded as well as your content creator. Who’s the entrepreneur, the business owner very far. My content is designed to ensure that the content is been uploaded by a verified individual. We do that by using AI to check ID documents, to make sure that they are real ID documents.
And we then use AI to cross-check a facial selfie or video against that document. Wow. We then go one step further and allow the content created to verify participants that they may have in their content. So all of those risks are therefore removed. You know, we, we, we help get rid of that, that I guess the risk of revenge porn or SP cams, because if those individuals are not verified, then the content can’t be uploaded.
Right. And then what we also do is we moderate the content. So we will use our, our own development of, of AI algorithms to ensure that the content itself meets all the requirements. So there’s no children involved in it. And if there is, you know, we, we flag that for someone to look at. So we’ve got a human moderator who will also look at that and go, Nope, that’s fine. We can let it go. And, and all of this is then wrapped up with a very sophisticated reporting tool.
So if MasterCard or an acquiring bank came to a merchant and said, right, we’ve got a report of, of child pornography on your site, how did that get, how did it get through the barriers? They were able to run a report and show exactly what has taken place
Speaker 1 (26m 34s): Interesting.
Speaker 2 (26m 35s): And, and all of this too, is backed up with our own very unique form of insurance, which also helps bring a bit more credibility and that piece of mind to, to content creators.
Speaker 1 (26m 49s): Yeah. And MasterCard knows you, right. You guys have worked with them in delivering all this, right.
Speaker 2 (26m 54s): Absolutely. Yeah. So they’ve been fantastic in giving us real life feedback. You know, we, we went off and built our first version of this and, and the guys had MasterCard actually openly said, you’ve gone too far. You don’t have to do what you’ve just suggested by that’s that’s overkill. So we, we thought, so we were like, that’s fantastic. Let’s build back a bit. Yeah. Which, which we’ve done, but what we also know, you know, when you look at history and you look at regulation, it’s only going to develop and get more regulated.
Yeah. So we understand that. So, so we’ve built certain, I guess, points within our technology that allows us to extend the type of, of, of, I guess, verification that we’re currently doing. But when, when you think very far more content, Bruce, we look at really three things. It’s, it’s one ID verification, number two, participant verification, number three, content moderation all under one roof. So when you look at many providers today, they have to pull those resources from different places.
Right. Right. And what we are offering is, is, is essentially a one stop shop. That’s got everything for you.
Speaker 1 (28m 8s): So what you’re saying is that when the Mo when the regulators decide, they’re going to put more rules on, you can ramp your solution back up to where it was when they said you overdid it.
Speaker 2 (28m 21s): Yes, exactly. That, wow. That’s awesome. Exactly. That awesome.
Speaker 1 (28m 24s): Yeah. And they will, and they will
Speaker 2 (28m 27s): Instead. Oh, yes.
Speaker 1 (28m 28s): Yeah. The one thing I can always count on is more regulation around the corner. No two ways about it. Now aren’t many of these MasterCard requirements already covered by 2, 2, 5, 7.
Speaker 2 (28m 39s): I think they are. I think what we see is I guess, a change in the type of content that gets uploaded, which 2, 2, 5, 7 may not necessarily bring under it’s umbrella, but I do think you’re right. I think if all websites adhere to 2, 2, 2, 2, 5, 7 regs, right? Then you, you would be able to tick a box, but, but let me give you some quick stats on this. So in fact, in fact, what, what we see at the minute, if you look at your fan sites or your user generated content sites and, and the absolute ease of anyone setting up an accountant, turning on their phone and recording a form of, of sexual or explicit content, right.
That can upload it with ease. No problem. 2, 2, 5, 7, doesn’t even seem to, to, to, to come into play because that’s what’s happening today. So when you look at your, your, your fan sites or your live cam sites or your pay sites, that’s what we see, but has some, has some quick stats for you that I can’t tell you where these have come from just yet. Cuz we, we put in a paper together on this, but interesting. We took, we took the top 40 adult entertainment sites that are out there. And we did a cross section from tube sites to cam sites to fan and, and fan sites.
And this, this is why our product is so needed because the other stats, 85% of those sites accepted a form of fraudulent ID. Oh yes. Okay. ID which anyone who looked at it would go, that’s not a real ID document. Okay. 74% allowed for illegal content and illegal content. Bruce for me is videos with children in it, not necessarily sexual sexually active children or any form of nudity, but children.
Right? Oh geez. And then 88% of these sites have never responded to a report of abuse or a complaint. Wow. Nothing’s happened.
Speaker 1 (30m 41s): Can I ask, can I ask you a question? I mean, how, how did you get all this information? I mean, I doubt the sites are telling you are showing you their IDs.
Speaker 2 (30m 52s): So a lot of this work and effort was done through actual market research. So actual testing, so real live people, setting up accounts, loading these documents, got it. Going through, going through the actual experience that a, a user would take or go through.
Speaker 1 (31m 10s): Interesting. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (31m 12s): So it’s, it’s so it’s key. It’s key. And, and, and, and it’s this type of research, it’s this type of concerns that needs to be plugged now, all, all of these sites we obviously speaking with and we’re gonna be discussing things with them. Right. But if all of them deployed a single solution like ours, all of that goes to zero.
Speaker 1 (31m 34s): Yeah. Yeah. Well what a can of worms that is though my God, that’s just, yes. That’s just frigging crazy interesting when that gets released. So why do you think it’s important for adult sites to select the right partner when it comes to compliance?
Speaker 2 (31m 51s): Yeah. I think this is critical, you know, Bruce, because the reputation of the site, the financial security of that site is in the hands of that partner. So yep. If you take a, you take our product. For example, if, if we use inferior technology, we will be declining more people that are trying to sign up to that site. So choosing the wrong partner is gonna have a massive impact on that. So, and I mentioned this earlier, the, the whole point of a partnership is that it’s not a supplier led partnership.
It is a joint partnership to succeed. So, you know, if I can produce a technology that that’s at its peak, that’s doing everything it needs to do. That doesn’t mean it will approve everyone. If it fails someone it’s doing it for a reason.
Speaker 1 (32m 41s): That’s like, like credit cards, like credit cards, you, you exactly. Yeah. You reject, you know, the, your PSPS reject people normally because of fraud.
Speaker 2 (32m 51s): Yeah. And, and that’s, and that’s a perfect actually example, Bruce, what we do here is getting rid of those, those guys, those firms, those companies, those content creators that are going to have a negative impact on the business. We are there to step in and get rid of those guys so that the business can, that’s awesome. Continue to develop.
Speaker 1 (33m 11s): That’s completely awesome. So now we agree more regulations coming. You said it, I said it, it’s not hard to figure out where do you think it’ll be focused?
Speaker 2 (33m 20s): Well, you know, I think, I think probably at the moment, it kind of, you kind of get the sense that it’s the, the payment providers that are becoming our defacto global regulators. You know, the, the threat of payment restrictions is gonna hurt people unless they sort sort out their businesses reputation’s critical. So any illegal content is gonna be a problem. AV age verification for users. There’s no doubt that’s coming. No doubt at all. Sure, sure. But I also have a very strong suspicion, Bruce, there’ll be more regulation around live cams and live streaming.
I think that is. And that’s, that’s a good,
Speaker 1 (34m 1s): Do you know this? Do you know this for a fact?
Speaker 2 (34m 3s): No, not, no. I just think it’s a more, a very strong gut feeling of, of how from our own market research where we see quite a few gaps.
Speaker 1 (34m 14s): Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34m 14s): We, we, we think potentially that could be an area that that could be focused on, but I think the, the next big disruption around regulation will definitely be end of this year, potentially start of next year with, with age verification for users.
Speaker 1 (34m 32s): Oh, there’s no two, no two ways around that.
Speaker 2 (34m 33s): And you know, that doesn’t have to be too much of a worry for sites because it, it should be equitable that by that stage, you know, Bruce can be just the top five sites who, who the friendship selected to, to ban, right. And then, and everyone else continue as, as you want. Right. I think we get into a position where everyone’s gonna be in a level playing field. And if that’s the case, there’s technology out there to help them
Speaker 1 (35m 0s): Look. If they, if somebody’s breaking the rules, if somebody’s one of the bad guys, I, I have no problem taking them offline. I, I think it’s great. I think if somebody’s showing kids, I, I think if, if somebody’s letting kids look at porn and, and the governments get wind of it, get rid of them, agree with that. Yep.
Speaker 2 (35m 21s): And
Speaker 1 (35m 21s): Completely,
Speaker 2 (35m 22s): I think, and I think 99% of everyone in this industry believes and, and, and believes that’s the right thing to do as well. Sure. Which is why it’s just about catching those, let’s call it the 1% that are, are buggering things up for everyone else.
Speaker 1 (35m 39s): Yeah. But why do you have such a, such a strong suspicion about cams and what’s your, your gut tell you that’s gonna happen?
Speaker 2 (35m 47s): And to be clear, this is a personal gut feeling of mine. We
Speaker 1 (35m 51s): Get, I
Speaker 2 (35m 52s): Get that. Good. Good. I just think it is very easy to go onto a live cam broadcast with, with very little moderation attached to it. I do think part of the MasterCard rules are trying to plug that gap by ensuring merchants have access to the site to right, to stop the broadcast as well as to put some form of AI in place to, to monitor the feeds. I think it’s a complicated challenge because there are so many facets attached to it from different forms of technology to what are the, the different rules for different cam sites.
You know, other words, who can be on camera, who cannot, I guess that’s one of the biggest challenges today as well. You know, Bruce is you have cam model setting up accounts, 99.9% are doing everything they should be doing. But then you have a small percentage where the, the cam model on camera is, is not actually the account holder who set up the account. So if they were verified before, that’s not the person that’s actually behind the camera, it’s very true. And, and it’s that risk for the business that gets them shut down.
Huge. So, and, and again, it’s that small percentage that are, are just, and then you ask the question, why is that happening? Who’s doing that, or what are the reasons for it? And so are you,
Speaker 1 (37m 17s): Are you, are you suggesting that at a certain point, there’s gonna be regulation. That’s gonna require a, the cam model to be verified every time they go on cam.
Speaker 2 (37m 28s): Sure, absolutely. Yeah. Wow. And, and, and we, and we, and we have this tech already, so that’s huge. So if you consider, if you were a cam model, if you’re a care model, Bruce, and yeah. You’re about to, and you were about to start your broadcast, you’re obviously staring into your camera, right? Yes. Our technology effortlessly will be able to go, yes, that’s Bruce. Let the broadcast continue within seconds.
Speaker 1 (37m 55s): Yeah. You meant within, right.
Speaker 2 (37m 57s): So
Speaker 1 (37m 58s): It’ll be a boom for you guys for sure.
Speaker 2 (38m 1s): And I, and I think it’s, it’s a good safeguard for the
Speaker 1 (38m 4s): Industry. Are you selling stock,
Speaker 2 (38m 8s): Jump in Bruce, jump in.
Speaker 1 (38m 10s): I shall, I shall. How do you think regulation and compliance has already impacted the industry
Speaker 2 (38m 18s): To be fair? You know, I think a lot of that has removed a lot of the unscrupulous. No doubt. I think there’s, there’s the more sophisticated individual who will find his way around all of these checks. If they, if they held bent on, on doing it, they will. Yeah. I think, I think if anything, the regulation is focused the minds more in this industry on compliance. So those sites that are doing all the right things have had to up their a bit more to do more compliant.
And I think that’s frustrating for them, but I do believe as many do that regulation can only and regulation with the right guidance. And that’s the key thing I want to get across Bruce. It’s all very well coming out with regulation or changing standards, but further guidance is required for everyone to understand what that means. And we’re seeing that coming through. Now, a lot of it due to my team’s work with MasterCard and regulators, to understand what exactly is required.
And I think regulation and compliance can only have a positive impact on the business. I think what it will do is ensure those who are focused on growing their businesses will thrive. And those that are, are trying to do the things they shouldn’t be doing are gonna be knocked out all together.
Speaker 1 (39m 42s): That’s awesome. Yeah. And let’s face it. Okay. In any situation, people who break the rules hurt the people who follow the rules.
Speaker 2 (39m 51s): Absolutely. Absolutely. In any, and that’s in any you’re right. That’s in any sector that’s in any business. Yep.
Speaker 1 (39m 59s): Yep. That’s
Speaker 2 (39m 60s): Life.
Speaker 1 (40m 0s): That’s life. My friend that’s in life.
Speaker 2 (40m 3s): Exactly. I say to my son, when you had a very tough rugby match on the weekend and in rugby, I guess any sport, you always try to press the rules to the limit to see what you can get away with.
Speaker 1 (40m 15s): Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40m 15s): And, and as I, I gave my son a bit of a lesson in risk management and I said, well, if you’re gonna, if, if you’re gonna take that approach close to your goal line, consider the risk. The risk will be, you get caught and they end up scoring against you and you go down. Yeah. If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna do that, you either gotta be really good at it. So you never get caught or accept the fact that if you’re gonna do it, there’s a consequence.
Speaker 1 (40m 41s): Always, always consequences in life. My friend, there are always consequences. Well, Hey, Gavin, I like to thank you for being our guest today on adult slate, broker talk. And I know down the road, we’ll have more to talk about.
Speaker 2 (40m 55s): Absolutely. Bruce, thank you for having me much appreciated.
Speaker 1 (40m 58s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed an agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit, if you’re gonna be making payments, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow.
Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. They’re a firm out of Washington, DC, and no, they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them. Trust them and am delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a custom escrow, or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed.
It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal being closed. Your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this. And it’s on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with a transition, or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.
This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point, you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Michael Ramos of ASN entertainment. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Gavin Worrall. Talk to you again next week on adult site broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Dee Severe of Severe Sex Films.

ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker would like to announce we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts! That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week. that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. A growing sex doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords as a result, most of the traffic in sales or organic coming from people who have searched for sex dolls on Google, the store has an impressive SEO footprint tuned to long-term success.

Other strong sales channels are the twenty-five thousand plus person email list and an affiliate program, which rewards content creators for referring sales to the store. The owner is developed relationships with the best TPE and Silicon doll manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturers to the customer. Along with these products, the store also offers some of its own exclusive sex doll and male masturbation models. The store has hundreds of five-star reviews on the site and on third-party sites.

It’s consistently listed as one of the best sex doll stores in the world. Thanks to a focus on customer service. The store currently has no employees. Aside from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business. SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field and has an experienced team in place. It’s already a very healthy business. That’s making lots of money and growing rapidly only 2.72 million dollars.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and adult site broker talk is de severe of severe sex films. D thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (3m 4s): It’s my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (3m 5s): It’s a pleasure to have you now D is a director. She comes to fetish porn from a background in rock journalism. She was previously a writer for rolling stone, the Hollywood reporter, and many other publications. She’s also worked in mainstream indie film. It had a gig as a pro dominate truss severe, and her producer performer husband, Jimmy Broadway are a lifestyle BDSM players that co-founded severe sex films with the aim of combining authentic BDSM with cinematic production values.

So various films corrupted by the evils of fetish porn and mind fucked a cult classic one back-to-back expos awards for fetish release of the year. Cybill. Troy is vicious garnered an AVN award for best BDSM release all Charlotte, Sarah tree, filthy angel. I hope I pronounced that right. And

Speaker 2 (4m 3s): It’s civil and Charlotte star.

Speaker 1 (4m 6s): Okay, there you go. I did it wrong. And the, and perversion and punishment 13 were honored by the alt porn awards as best Gonzo video severe has also been nominated for several X biz industry executive awards, and it was a panelist at the SXSW seminar using explicit sex as a storytelling element D and Jimmy live in Las Vegas with their two awesome rescue dogs, Bella and Fiona. Now you started out as a music reporter.

How did you get into the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (4m 39s): It’s a long and weird story. I was, I was in the music industry for quite a long time, and I started getting burned out on it because it’s like when you’re 20 a job where you have to go out to hear bands five nights a week is like the awesomest thing in the world. Once you get into your twenties, a job where you have to go out six thirties, rather once you like a job where you have to go out six nights a week to hear bands gets to be like less awesome every year as it goes by.

So I was getting, I also kind of wanted to write my own stuff as opposed to writing about someone else’s creative process. So I got into, I got into writing mainstream screenplays and I had some limited success with it, but it was very frustrated with the whole process. It was, it’s kind of like in, in mainstream film, like, okay, you write a screenplay, your agent gets an option. Do you think, oh boy, it’s going to be a movie. This is going to be so awesome. And that doesn’t happen.

What happens is you get a producer who makes you rewrite it like 739 times. So you want to like throw yourself and the script and the producer off a roof because you can’t take it anymore. And then this goes on for like a couple of years and you get some like renewal payments and then something goes wrong with the financing and the whole thing falls apart. And you have to start over. So this, this happened to me like four times. And it was, it was just kind of like, I hate this process. I want to make movies. I don’t want to do this.

This just sucks. So, but at this time I had hooked up with my beloved. I’ve had co come out as a Kiki person and we met on alt.com and he was all he’s involved in TV, sports and other live like live TV production. So we joined, we joined a, a mainstream short film collective where basically people crude on each other’s movies. So the group made 60 short films in three years.

And like, some of them, like one of ours, like did a pretty good festival run and stuff. So we were like, this seems like a better idea. This was like, we were like making stuff and we were learning how to do it. And we were kind of like, at that point, this was like in the mid two thousands and we’re straight to DVD. Movies were still a thing. So we were developing like a low budget horror movie that could be straight to DVD. And right at this time, we’re also like really broke at this time because you’re spending all these time making, like, making like short films that went to festivals and didn’t make any money.

So we would go to this fetish club, just no sanctuary, but was passive arts was a dungeon. And we would go there for like fetish night parties and the guy who was running the dungeon kept saying, you should come work here. You’d be really good. So it was like, you know, something, that’s probably not a bad idea. So I got a part-time job at the dungeon as a pro dominatrix. And this guy wanted to get into, like, he’d done a couple of like BDSM movies. That weren’t very good. And we were like, well, you know, we have this film background.

We could like do this stuff for you. And so then we started making his DVDs and we ran his clips for sales stores for two years and proceeded to make all our rookie mistakes on somebody else’s nickel and adapt. And at that point we just realized like, this is so creative and so much fun. And all the people in like kinky porn are so much nicer than the people in mainstream film. And like, and like, we’re actually, we’re like actually making money at this.

We’re making like, like, like half this and half the, the, you know, TV stuff that my husband continues to do is like, this is like a nice income. We can do this. So we kind of took that ball and ran with it. And that’s how I went from rock journalism to what I do now.

Speaker 1 (8m 32s): Wow. Wow. That was quite, that is a, that’s quite a journey now, was there, was there a bit of culture shock once you got into adult?

Speaker 2 (8m 41s): Like a little bit. I was, I was always like a really open-minded person. So I didn’t it’s like, I mean, cause we went to like, because I was part of the BDSM community first, like that part of it, wasn’t like, you know, working in the dungeon, wasn’t like shocking that much. It’s kind of like, it was a little bit of a culture shock when we got more into vanilla porn, but, but we kind of adjusted pretty, pretty quickly. And now there’s so much like there’s much more crossover now because kink is like, thanks to the, the awful, but very helpful shit.

50 shades of gray, like Kik has gotten much more mainstream in those two worlds. So It’s like, it’s like really badly written. I mean, it’s like just, it’s a really bad book and it’s just the way that it represents BDSM is like stupid and inaccurate. Nobody does that. You don’t, you know, you don’t take someone who’s like a complete newbie and kind of make them your like house slave and impose all this stuff on them without their consent.

And they’re like that stuff that’s abuse. That’s like a BDSM relationship is all about consent. It’s like what he does in that book is like completely irresponsible and wrong and bad. But on the plus side, all of these, yes, it got all these people going, ha you know, something tying up my guy or my girl sounds like really hot. I think I want to do it. And then they got into it and then they were like, well, we want, we want to know about other things.

So let’s look at some kinky porn, I get some ideas and this stuff like ours got much more popular. So even though I hate, I hate 50 shades of gray as a thing. I’m, I’m happy about the effect that it had.

Speaker 1 (10m 34s): Yeah. You’re like the third person on podcast who said that. So what’s the difference between working in mainstream film and in porn,

Speaker 2 (10m 44s): Mainly the nice people, part people in people in mainstream film are so desperate to make it. It’s like they will assassinate your grandma. I mean, it’s, it’s like it

Speaker 1 (10m 58s): Or

Speaker 2 (10m 58s): Their own. It’s like, it’s, there’s this climbing thing where you really can’t press study buddy. Right. Because everybody’s so, so desperate. And so, and, and it’s like, and nobody’s really like something good happens. People pretend that they’re happy for you, but you know, they’re not really jealous and they’re not supportive of you. And it’s, and it’s, it’s just the general, there’s like an old joke about New York versus LA in New York. People say, fuck you, when they meet and have a nice day.

And in LA people say have a nice day when they mean, fuck you. So corn is world like New York, mainstream film is more like LA

Speaker 1 (11m 40s): Interesting. So

Speaker 2 (11m 43s): Go ahead. Yeah. Porn porn is just like, it’s, it’s just much more nice and fun with, with the exception of some asshole, people who are slowly kind of getting driven out of the industry, but, but overall people in porn are much nicer and it’s just like there, people are more supportive of each other and it’s just like, people have fun. You know, mainstream film is really not very much fun.

Speaker 1 (12m 8s): Yeah. The reminds me of something. I used to go on a lot of cruises and the, you know, the staff, you say anything to them and they’re like, no problem on. And you know, the one comedian was doing his bit and he goes, you know what that means? Don’t you? I mean, fuck you,

Speaker 2 (12m 28s): Have you seen the white Lotus?

Speaker 1 (12m 30s): No,

Speaker 2 (12m 31s): You should see the white Lotus. It’s about, it’s on, I think it’s on HBO. It’s about, it’s about like rich people at a, at a swanky resort in Hawaii. That’s exactly about that. Just said this is really good. It’s funny.

Speaker 1 (12m 47s): Okay. So how did you get into the BDSM lifestyle? I always wonder how people find it.

Speaker 2 (12m 54s): Well, it was, I think it’s kind of something like, let me put it this way. When I was a little kid and everybody else wanted to be a Disney princess, I wanted to be Maleficent because she lived in a castle and she had like cool minions and she wore all black and she was just like, she had power. So I, I think it’s, it’s kind of like, I’ve always kind of been very edgy and I’ve always kind of felt like, like with vanilla sex, like it was fun, but something was missing and there was like something missing out of those relationships.

So I was like, not like completely happy even when I was in like in a decent relationship. And whenever there was a relationship that was even mildly Kiki, even though there was like totally other things wrong with the person, like that’s the one I’d be like really into. Hmm. So at one point, once I got divorced from my first husband, I was kind of like, you know, something, I’m a kinky person. Like all my fantasies are like this. They’re all about like power and control and cake and fetishes and like, fuck it.

I’m going to do this in real life. Like, I want this, I want this for my real life. I don’t want this to just be like my fantasies. And then, then I kind of actually, this was, this was still in the nineties when people still had ads like in LA weekly. So I put an ad in LA weekly that I was like beginning amateur dominate drinks. And I was like looking for people to play with and that I got like 200 responses and yeah. So then I went like on lots and lots of dates with people and sort of like ended up with, like, I ended up with like two guys who, between the two of them made a really good boyfriend.

Like they both had, Instead of played with them for about a year and kind of got like, I would go, this was also like before, really late. This is like as admit mid to late nineties and like porn really wasn’t on like kink was online, but that was about it. And so you still would go down to like the dirty adult store and read stuff. And I would go in there and I would be like the only woman these guys were like, oh my God. And they would just be like so embarrassed.

And it was really funny. So then I would, I would rent like finished porn and like w watch it and to get hints and stuff. And then like, along the lines of this, in my that I went online and put it ad in an alt.com. And again, got an avalanche of responses. One of the responses I got was my now husband and more than 20 years.

Speaker 1 (15m 25s): Wow. Wow. That’s fabulous. How does kind of something that I was wondering about now being an adult I’m non judgemental? I don’t, I, you know, I, I don’t, I never, I don’t look down on what anyone does about anything, but I mean, how do you think the general public looks at that lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (15m 46s): I think PR I think some of the, I mean, most of them think everybody in porn of vanilla porn or kinky porn is like a freak and disgusting. And that’s just like where the scum of the earth. I think some people, I mean, if they’re, if they’re like open-minded people and they saw 50 shades of gray, they’re kind of probably curious about kind of the more mild things like spanking and light bondage and stuff like that, which is one of the reasons why we have instruction.

We have a series of instructional DVDs for just that purpose so that people can do these things safely. It’s called kink schools. There’s a whole, whole bunch of them, because one of the, one of the things about BDSM is like, kinda like the more he’s made, the more into it, you get the more there’s a capacity for like injuring somebody. Yep. So it’s, it’s, it’s real, you know, it’s kind of like if you, if you tie somebody’s hands wrong and leave them that way you can cause permanent nerve damage and stuff like that. So there’s a, there’s a point where you really have to, you know, like get instruction,

Speaker 1 (16m 52s): You gotta be careful.

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): You have to be careful and you have to practice things and kind of get into it kind of slowly kind of have it be like an adventure with your partner where there was a lot, like a lot of communication. And

Speaker 1 (17m 5s): Yeah, I mean, I, I was able to, I had the, the ability to go watch some BDSM shootings at the kink castle, the late great king castle back when they did the, the why not show there. And God, that was fascinating. I was like, I’m kind of looking, I’m like, oh, I’m not sure what I’m actually looking at here. But, and my poor wife, I mean, she, it was her first. It was one of her early trips from Thailand and this very naive young lady from Thailand and she’s with me and she’s kind of looking at me going.

Hmm. So it was, it was, it was interesting to say the least. So how has relocating to Vegas worked out for you?

Speaker 2 (17m 55s): We love it here. It is. I mean, it’s kind of, there’s so many nice things about it. It’s, it’s kind of got, if you want to do the big city things and go to the strip and go out and go crazy and do all that stuff and go to shows and go to like sporting events. You can do all that. If you want. Like really, if you want to have like a really quiet suburban life, that’s really peaceful and calm and affordable, and you can look at pretty mountains and clear air. You can do that. And the two things that are like 20 minutes apart.

Yeah. So it’s just, you know, like it’s, it’s much more manageable than LA just in terms of like traffic and stuff and like that plus in

Speaker 1 (18m 36s): For

Speaker 2 (18m 38s): Yes. It’s like people complain about traffic here. It’s like, honey, you have no idea. I have no idea how

Speaker 1 (18m 46s): I have a problem with traffic is on the strip. I mean, the traffic on the streets. Ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): Yeah. That’s yeah. If you live here, you never drive on the strip actually never go to the strip unless you’re going to a show or something. It’s pretty much like, like downtown is actually like a lot more fun to me, like Fremont street and

Speaker 1 (19m 7s): That

Speaker 2 (19m 7s): Kind of area,

Speaker 1 (19m 9s): But

Speaker 2 (19m 10s): It’s yeah. I, the other thing with, with LA for us is because we have a studio there it’s like our, our rent was just so crazy and our overhead was so crazy. It was kind of like, we make really good money. Where are we broke all the time? Because, you know, because we had like this insane overhead and also the, the gentrification of the main part of downtown was kinda pushing skid row into our neighborhood. So it was kind of like our rep was going up in the neighborhood was getting worse. So it was kinda like, you know, this is not ideal, but, but happily, a friend of ours took over our studio so we can still shoot there.

You know, when, when we’re in LA, which we do occasionally, but she doesn’t live there. So it’s, it’s like that works out better. Like we lived there. So it was kind of a little bit weirder.

Speaker 1 (19m 60s): Do you miss anything about LA?

Speaker 2 (20m 2s): I mean, I miss having the studio, I really enjoyed like Mike really enjoys building sets and that kind of thing. And it’s, it’s like we had, it was, it was really nice to be able to like take two or three days and do like an elaborate set thing and then like leave it there as opposed to here, where we have to rent things. I miss that. I would say that I miss the beach. Like we really enjoyed the beach when we lived near it, but once we moved away from it, we never went back there. So it’s

Speaker 1 (20m 31s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (20m 32s): Yeah, it was, you know, but I like when we lived in Redondo beach, I really enjoyed the beach.

Speaker 1 (20m 38s): Redondo is gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (20m 39s): It’s nice there. So yeah, I mean, I mean, we go back probably, you know, three, four times a year at, so it’s not like, you know, it’s life, like, you know, like we left LA and we can never see it again. So I don’t really miss that much about it.

Speaker 1 (20m 56s): So what do you like to do when you’re not working?

Speaker 2 (21m 2s): I’m working all the time. I like to go to the gym. I’m really basic person. I like to go to the gym. I like to go do things with my dogs. Okay. Before, before the whole quarantine thing came around, like, you know, go out to dinner and like, we went to a Raiders game that was really fun. I’m looking forward to doing that some more now that I don’t have reviewed them as to like going to concerts, you know, we’re having fun. So like your, your, your basic stuff.

But I mean, we’re, we’re pretty busy right now. So it’s a lot of times like, you know, time off is like, Hey, let’s grub hub. That’d be fun. A different, right.

Speaker 1 (21m 42s): Yeah. Sometimes it’s great to just to stay home and chill.

Speaker 2 (21m 45s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (21m 46s): So what’s, what’s your favorite part of the job you do?

Speaker 2 (21m 51s): I really liked directing. I like having an idea in my brain and that having that idea happen, like making what I see inside my, my mind be a real thing. That’s a movie. And like editing is part of that. So like, I, I enjoy the actual shooting process probably the most, but the editing process is like really vital for making that, you know, for making that vision come to life. So like, that’s why, that’s my favorite. Like, that’s what I like to do if I did, if I could just do that and didn’t have to do any of the other stuff, that would be awesome, but you know, but there’s other stuff.

So, so I know that I need to,

Speaker 1 (22m 31s): What’s your will all that, I’ll ask the next part. What’s your least favorite thing about your job?

Speaker 2 (22m 38s): I, if I never had to program another clips for sale clip or write descriptions or do any, any of that stuff, like that would be awesome. I’m not big on any of that, but it’s like, it’s, you know, it’s like, which is why we’ve kind of arranged life so that, you know, other people take, like most of our deals are with like other people who take a percentage of profit for doing the stuff that we don’t want to do. And that works out perfectly, you know, like, like our website and like all of our tubes and other stuff is, is done by adult empire who are fabulous, you know?

So we just send them stuff and they do cool shit with it. And, you know, they could do better than we ever could because that’s not our thing.

Speaker 1 (23m 23s): Sure, sure.

Speaker 2 (23m 25s): And we have a kink channel and, you know,

Speaker 1 (23m 27s): Nice. So how has the pandemic effected your business and what did you guys do during lockdown?

Speaker 2 (23m 34s): You know, we really lucked out and, and I have to, I have to say, I have, I inadvertently have to thank Blake Shelton for saving her business. This is what happened. We were like, we had all kinds of plans for 2020. And like, we were, there was a concert, like at that point I was going through LinkedIn’s country music phase. So there was a Blake Shelton concert in LA at the forum and he did not have a Vegas show and I really wanted to go. So I figured, well, what the hell?

Let’s just like, we’ll road trip to LA and then we’ll figure, well, you know, as long as we’re going, let’s go, let’s stay a week. Let’s like really shoot a whole bunch of stuff with like our LA Dom’s that we like and like shoot a bunch of stuff in our old studio. And then we can write the whole thing off and we’ll come back. So that’s what we did. And then four days later, the quarantine hit and our income for everything dipped like 70%, but we had enough new content that we could keep our website going through the court team.

Speaker 1 (24m 36s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (24m 37s): Which, which kind of minute is still, you know, like we made it through it, you know, like, like a lot of stuff went away for the time being, we kind of made it through it. And, and then like, as soon as we can safely start shooting something, we did like a lot of testing and like a lot of being really careful and kind of, you know, like just dealing with people that we knew to be like responsible people, you know, but that was, that was pretty much it, like, if that hadn’t happened, if we hadn’t had all that content, we would really had like a big problem.

Cause there was just nothing, you know,

Speaker 1 (25m 11s): A lot of people, a lot of people have that problem.

Speaker 2 (25m 14s): Yeah. It was, it was rough. It was really rough. But it, it also on the plus that we’ll kind of on the plus and minus side, right before that I bought a Mac pro like it really souped up one, you know how much those things cost

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): A lot.

Speaker 2 (25m 29s): Yeah. We bought one of those and on, on one year financing, my chief. So that was like happening. It’s like, oh great. We have to put like 800 bucks a month for this computer on top of everything else going on. But on the plus side, if like we got new cameras too, at the same time, as we were having like this really great year and it came with the DaVinci resolve. So having quarantined gave me this time to just like sit around and learn DaVinci resolve, which is considerably different than final cut pro seven. So that was a good, you know, that I made good use of my quarantine time.

Speaker 1 (26m 5s): Cool. So what’s your philosophy when it comes to casting?

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): I like to deal with people who know what they’re doing. It’s kind of like, I do not get the whole, I mean, I kind of get it for vanilla pour and the whole thing, like higher, like the, the U S most naive 18 year old got into the business. Like four days ago thing. We don’t do that. It’s like, I like people where like, I, I like stuff that looks real. I hate the style of shooting where it’s like, okay, let’s fuck for 40 seconds again, changing my camera position.

Okay. Fuck for another 40 seconds. Okay. Let’s change our camera position. We shoot three camera and preferably I like people to not stop. Like, like, you know, like 99% of the time, if you get three cameras, you have a usable shot at all times. And you, you get this velocity that way that you just don’t get otherwise it’s, it’s got like a emotion to it and it’s, it’s just got like this power to it. And for that, like, you just need, you need people who know what they’re doing, you know, plus with, with like more advanced kinky stuff, you need people who’ve had some training, you know, it’s like, I’ve said like a zillion times just because he put a girl in latex and give her a flogger that does not make her a dominate drinks.

You know? Like, like we have people who, who have skills. And like, once we find somebody who’s got a good attitude and has skills and like, are our fans like, like them, like, we’ll, we’ll hire them over and over again. Like we kind of have a little repertory company of, of people that we like, you know, and we’ll get, you know, we try new things, like kind of like, like the, you think I’ve been for the most part, we’ve been doing femdom stuff, but lately we just shot like romantic male Dom seeing the turned out great.

And it’s been like really well received. So I think we’re going to do more of that. That will be like, kinda like the new adventure and trying out some new people. But, but generally, yeah. I like people who, who know their stuff. I like people who are pros and who know their stuff.

Speaker 1 (28m 11s): I wonder why more people aren’t shooting like three cameras as opposed to one and having to make the performers start and stop because that that’s gotta be a real choppy.

Speaker 2 (28m 22s): I don’t know. I don’t know why more people don’t do it. It seems so. I mean, it’s not that much more, I guess people get used to a certain camera style and it’s it’s, I mean, in part the editing is more complicated. Plus we, plus we have an outside, outside audio track cause that’s cleaner. So it’s like, basically you’re, you’re dealing with like four tracks of stuff you need to sync together and you’re dealing with that as opposed to one track. So that’s like more complicated, but, but I think, I just think it works out better and you get much, much more authentic thing.

And, and for the most part, like for like features, all three cameras have a live human on them for most things. There, there are two people on moving live cameras and one camera’s like a tripod master shot. That’s, that’s basically like sitting there and also is getting some BTS and stuff that is kinda like the backup camera.

Speaker 1 (29m 20s): Cool. So who are some of your favorite do you mentioned you, your kind of your, your go-to people who were some of your favorite performers to work with?

Speaker 2 (29m 30s): Let’s see right now, probably civil Troy, who we wanted an ABN award where this is one of my favorites. She’s like a really top, very, very skilled Dom then. And she’s pretty awesome. Let’s see. Who would we like lately? I really enjoy Vanessa Vega a lot. I enjoy people who can do, who could improvise dialogue. Well, and she’s like really good at that. Like her and her and Kay Carter who were both in our most recent feature, strangers in a book, strangers in a bar and they both did a great job.

We probably reuse guys more often than, than we use anybody else. Because like, in part like, like cute male sub submissive guys are, are hard to find. It’s kind of like, there’s, there’s like, there’s like 10 basically. You know? So like those, those guys like Marcello, fluffy, Tony Orlando, Pierce, Paris driven Navarro. They’re all Vegas guys. Like we use them over and over again. They’re awesome. The Alere Jensen’s of the Vegas little bit who was really fun to work with Kiki, Darryl’s a friend of ours.

We’ve worked with her forever. London rivers. Cool. Charlotte star did a super great job. She’s a friend of ours. We’ve worked with her a lot. Those are, those are some kind of, some of our, Some of our, some of our peeps.

Speaker 1 (30m 57s): Okay. So how has the advent of only fans and other such platforms impacted your business?

Speaker 2 (31m 4s): It’s been really good for us. I mean, I think only Fens has been great for the business in general, because it’s forcing like abusive asshole guys out of the industry because now women are making money on their own. So like, it used to be that, okay, I know this guy’s like a really abusive jerk and this is going to be a miserable experience for me, but it’s $2,000 and I need the money. So I’m just going to like, you know, I’m just going to like suffer through it. Like,

Speaker 1 (31m 29s): Well, at least we’ll at least one of them’s in prison for a very long time. So

Speaker 2 (31m 34s): Exactly. So it’s, it’s like they don’t have to put up with jokes anymore because they had their own money. So I think that’s overall is, is really good. The other thing that’s really good for us is a lot of times we get women who would rather share the content than get paid because they know that like, if we pay them, that’s like a flat amount and they get the scene, they could put the scene up on their only fans are there just for fans, for their loyal fans or whatever else or their website, they can make like three or four times more than they would just be getting paid, which is great for us because that lowers our cost total.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s a total win-win so we’re, we’re all about the content share. It’s like, so, so I love the whole only fans thing. I think it’s, I think it’s great.

Speaker 1 (32m 22s): Good, good. Now, do you worry about the right wing powers that be in America, censoring the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (32m 30s): You know, people worry about that a lot. The one thing that I remember is in France, there are 25,000 year old cave that are porn. There was caveman porn that like the second somebody had a creative idea, it involved porn. So there has been porn in every single society in the history of mankind from caveman on. And it’s, it’s like a basic primal urge and no one will ever completely get rid of it. Will they will.

They manage to make our lives more difficult possibly. But you know, people are, you know, there’s a lot of like money and lawyers and smart people in porn. So I’m sure they’re on it. So I, I worry, you know, there’s so many other things, if you start worrying about everything that could go wrong, you’re just going to be like miserable the whole day. You know, it’s, it’s like, yes, climate change can, yes. Climate change is probably going to wreck the planet and a couple of hundred years, and we should do everything we can to help it.

But you can’t really like read about it every single day. Excuse me. As long as you’re doing the responsible thing. So Yeah, it’s, it’s the same deal it’s like, do you know, you, you gotta just do your best, you know, and not do stuff. That’s stupid. You know, it’s like, there was like six,

Speaker 1 (33m 49s): Sorry, sorry that counts out this country. I run into run into stupid every day. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (33m 55s): So much stupid. But, but also with porn, it’s just kind of like, you know, people like, you know, who like get in trouble because like they used an underage person and it’s like, you know, you’re supposed to really carefully check their IDs and do all that. It’s like, you’re getting in trouble because you lost your paper. You didn’t realize you were supposed to like, keep good track of your paperwork. You know, you didn’t realize like,

Speaker 1 (34m 20s): Well, there’s morons out there who think, because they aren’t, you know, because 2, 2, 5, 7 is basically been defeated that they don’t need to keep model records. And that, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. They shouldn’t give, you know, ask any attorney, but unfortunately there’s a lot of lazy people in our industry and also a lot of stupid people.

Speaker 2 (34m 41s): Exactly. You know, it’s, I mean, we still do like all the two do five, seven, we actually got new and improved paperwork from, from Michael <inaudible> because there were some changes in the model stuff. So it’s like, you know, it’s tough to not get in trouble. Like don’t do stupid shit. Don’t do stupid shit. And don’t kind of like wave it. Don’t wave yourself in people’s faces

Speaker 1 (35m 6s): And you know,

Speaker 2 (35m 7s): So,

Speaker 1 (35m 8s): And Michael’s awesome by the way, he’s been been on the podcast twice. So

Speaker 2 (35m 13s): He was great.

Speaker 1 (35m 14s): Yes. Love it. So what is next for severe sex films?

Speaker 2 (35m 20s): Well, we’re real, we’re shooting a lot, which has been great. We’re looking for new locations. We are really like, that’s, that’s kinda the main thing I really wanna, I wanna find like new places to shoot. We’re definitely going to do another. We’re definitely gonna do another feature this year. I I’ve sort of got two candidates. I think it’s going to be about a haunted. I think it’s going to be about a haunted dungeon, going to be another comedy with special effects. I like doing special effects now that I was in quarantine all that time and learned all the shit.

It’s like, Ooh, I can do, you know, like we have, we have our website, we have have our cake.com channel, which we have, it’s going to be like fun and interesting. There was like a big change of their like end with what’s going on with them, but kind of that’s our audience. So that’s a really, you know, important part of our, part of the puzzle. So, you know, it’s kinda like, I always think of them as kind of, you know, like we’re the, like the well-received coffee shop that has five locations and their Starbucks.

Speaker 1 (36m 24s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (36m 26s): The same serving coffee.

Speaker 1 (36m 28s): That’s amazing. I mean, what, what kink has done over the years? Oh my God. They’re amazing. And did you ever get a chance to go to the king castle?

Speaker 2 (36m 37s): You know, I didn’t, Mike has, Mike has been

Speaker 1 (36m 41s): Okay. Okay. That place was amazing. I leave it, you know, getting, it was like, oh my God, that was what was so cool about when, why not was doing their show in San Francisco. Was that party well, besides the fact that when I was living in the bay, then, so I could jump on Bart and go to the, to, to my hotel and then take Bart back home. I mean, that was pretty good too, but it didn’t even have to bring my car to the city, you know, which is a beautiful thing. So, oh, funny story about that.

I was staying right on market street and yeah, the last night kink party drank a lot. I wake up in the morning and there’s all this noise and I’m like, what the fuck? And I look out the window, gay pride parade, and it’s just like, oh fuck me. Does it have to be today when I’m on over? But anyway, that, that, that w why not show back then?

And they, the kink castle party classic stuff, man, kilowatt class stuff.

Speaker 2 (37m 49s): I bet. But so, yeah, that’s and we should mention probably from, from now on our stuff is going to be all digital. We finally decided to stop making physical DVDs. That’s like kind of our other,

Speaker 1 (38m 3s): There you go. Well, you’re, you’re probably smart. So where can fans find your content?

Speaker 2 (38m 9s): Our main thing is our website, which is severe sex films.com. We also have, like I mentioned a channel on, on kink. So if you have a membership with kink, you can go to our channel there. Those are kind of the two main ones. We still have clips for sales stores, but honestly I wasn’t, they, they, they changed their, their whole like structure of like the paperwork needed. We can just stop dealing with it. So now just like we had them for like more than 10 years, so we still make money, but we tend to stop updating them so much.

Speaker 1 (38m 47s): They were the big fetish player forever.

Speaker 2 (38m 49s): They were a big fetish player forever, but it’s like now, and I understand why they need more documentation now. It just is. So it’s like a lot. Yeah. It’s very cumbersome. Those are kind of the two, the two main things. We are also, you know, on all the main, like the big VOD we’re on like hot movies and fetish movies, ABN game link, adult empire, you know, so any of those video on demand.

Speaker 1 (39m 17s): Excellent.

Speaker 2 (39m 18s): Oh, before I forget somebody flicks up, we just, we just

Speaker 1 (39m 24s): Got along.

Speaker 2 (39m 25s): We just started putting stuff up.

Speaker 1 (39m 28s): Mike’s another, another two time guest on and on. He’s a wonderful guy. I think we’re finally gonna get to meet ’em at the a T E S show. So looking forward to that. Well, D I would like to thank you for being our guest today on adult site broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (39m 48s): I would love that. Anytime.

Speaker 1 (39m 50s): Sounds

Speaker 2 (39m 50s): Good.

Speaker 1 (39m 52s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part five of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about how to determine the value of a site, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft the agreement, what should be in it? Well, your attorney will guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint, what is the date you’d like to close? Make sure, you know, you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date.

I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. Make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with the vendors, all records, including 2, 2, 5, 7 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites. Of course, it should spell out any payment schedule. If there is one who’s responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow.

And there are always terms that are unique to yours in the seller situation. This assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is doing it, then it’s important that you express all of this to your attorney so they can check the seller’s agreement and seeing if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week, we’ll be speaking with Gavin Worrall of verify my age and verify my content.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Dee Severe. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with adult performer Seka Black.

ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker would like to announce we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts! That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.

Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale a unique network of pay sites. The network includes six sites of many different stripes, a gay cosplay, bareback and Fetter site, a straight pegging light fandom, boy, girl, and pantyhose fetish site, a by threesome site, a queer hot sex site, a hardcore BDSM and bonded site, and finally, a trans female a site.

There is also a very active affiliate program with NATS as its backend through over a decade of independently funding shooting and selling niche content. They founded these six sites found eager, ethical and competent directors to run them and put content on the sites. Most of the content is exclusive with an influx of cash and a dedicated team. There’s still a lot of opportunity for growth, only $1.6 million. Now time for this week’s interview.

My guest today on adult type broker talk is porn actress, Seca black Seca. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 23s): Thank you. It’s nice to be here.

Speaker 1 (2m 25s): It’s nice to have you now see, could pick the name Seca, because she was told by many men that she’d looked like the Seca black, who was a porn star. She is 67 years young with blue eyes and natural blonde hair. She’s five foot seven and 140 pounds. The warm weather is spoiled her throughout the years, which has gotten her used to not wearing much clothing. This has led her to be playful, mischievous, seductive, and horny. She is a grandma. I liked that a horny grandma and was an accountant before getting into this business.

That’s wild. Well, that’s a difference between being an accountant and being in porn, huh?

Speaker 2 (3m 3s): Oh yes. After sitting behind a desk for so many years and imagining what else I could be doing, that would be a lot more fun of it. It was a roller coaster. And now I’m finally here when you set a goal, you get there.

Speaker 1 (3m 19s): Yeah, absolutely. So I guess you’re not the same secret from the seventies. I guess I kind of in a short way, told the story of how you pick the name. Why don’t you give me the long version?

Speaker 2 (3m 33s): It’s a combination of I’m dealing with the men in my previous business and they would actually even tell me that I looked a lot like her, which was surprising because they actually tip their hand on a

Speaker 1 (3m 48s): Personal

Speaker 2 (3m 49s): Life, but it was fun. They were, some were trying to make moves on me and then some weren’t they were just being business in a discrete way.

Speaker 1 (4m 3s): Yeah. Yeah. You know, I’ve been reading a book by Nick Manning dropping loads. And in fact, I just finished it last night and I hadn’t, I had Nick on earlier this week or actually last week. And one thing that was, what was real interesting was the author was talking about how ostracized people in our industry are, especially on the performance side I know about on the business side, because you know, can’t get a bank, can’t get processing, you know, all that stuff.

But you walk into a, she was talking about how, you know, cause she lived with Nick for six months while she wrote the book and she talked about going to the grocery store and then going to the grocery store without Nick and the checker would be like, aren’t you the one with the, with the porn star? And I mean, how do, how do you have those types of experiences? Do you get, do, do people stare at you when they see you

Speaker 2 (5m 1s): Very much? Yes. Actually most of the time, if I don’t want to be noticed, I just won’t put any makeup on and wear a hat and sunglasses. But when they, when I do get dressed and I’m out to have fun for the night, I get so many stairs. And then sometimes even when I don’t put the makeup on, they, I still get stairs probably because I do work out and I stay in shape for my age.

Speaker 1 (5m 32s): Yeah. That’s good. I just got back from my morning, 90 minute power walk along the beach. So I understand. And I’m 64, so we’re pretty close in age, but I’m not on camera. And it’s probably a beautiful thing that I’m not because I’m never going to happen. So how did you get into the business? Tell me the story.

Speaker 2 (5m 56s): Oh my well, it’s a combination of, I’m wanting to do it. Oh gosh. That’s a rule. I definitely have to start from the beginning. It’s long, but I’ll try and cut to the chase.

Speaker 1 (6m 11s): We have none on others. Look, look, we have no time limits on this podcast. Give me the whole story. Start from the beginning and tell me the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (6m 20s): Okay. Actually, when I was 30, which that was a long time ago, I was done with children and staying in shape. And I decided that I wanted to be a stripper, even though I was that accountant behind the desk, of course I’m married. So I went to hubby and said, Hey, you know what? We need some excitement here. I’d love to be a stripper for a while and see that side of the, you know, the fun.

And it was really interesting. XR got some puppies here, but, but it’s something where he, he went for it. He loved it. I worked in the evening stripping and made quite a bit of money. And it was something where I actually went and found out that that’s when I’m black men were really attracted to me.

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (7m 23s): And then we got to where I was making about 800 a night. And I thought, yeah, that was like getting up there. And I, I was starting to want to go more to that instead of my accounting, I decided that I had to quit for a while and get back into the norm of a reality there for, but it was fun. And then at 30 I ended up getting pregnant again.

So it was something where I had to quit doing that and stick with family life again. But then when my youngest was 20, we decided to start swinging. And that’s when that’s when I still had that interest in black men. Yeah. So when we were swinging best where we were, who we were with and my hobby loved videoing me.

And when he was, he would video, he would post me up on sites, just short clips. And that’s when production companies started to call me and said, Hey, you know, you look great. You’re great age. And that we wanted to hire you. You know? So that’s where I’m at, where I got hired, but hobbies and I,

Speaker 1 (8m 51s): We still, how old were you then?

Speaker 2 (8m 53s): Then I was a 50. Mm. Yeah, that was 50 years old. And it was an experience, but I still had my other business. So we slowed down with that, but, and just did swinging for a while, but it’s a combination of back and forth where I would play and do porn. And then I would come back and do the accounting, but it was my end result when I was 65.

And I said, that’s it. I want to strictly do porn. I love interracial. So we got to where I’m, he videos me, edits videos, and then post all on all the websites. It’s been a blast. And now this is my retirement, 65. That was at 65. I went full-time I put the accounting and that’s where, how I started.

Speaker 1 (9m 51s): So your husband is your videographer.

Speaker 2 (9m 54s): Yes, he does everything. He even at, he produces and he posts and he helps me out with some of my emails because I can’t keep up with it all.

Speaker 1 (10m 7s): Wow. Wow. You guys sound like quite the power couple.

Speaker 2 (10m 12s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, my accounting job was with our own manufacturing company. He was the electrical engineer and I was the accountant and we had that for 35 years. We’ve been next to each other through our whole marriage.

Speaker 1 (10m 29s): That’s quite a relationship. And because to be able to work together and to be able to, I know my wife and I couldn’t do it to be able to work together and to live together. That’s not easy.

Speaker 2 (10m 43s): Well, I don’t know. It’s not for some people, but I guess we just, we found the right partner and we hit it off and we always communicate real well. And you know, it’s like a wild time. Like people play, there are ups and downs, but if you’re open, you can do anything.

Speaker 1 (11m 5s): So now you guys, you guys are in the lifestyle and you primarily, as you mentioned, you primarily play with, with black men when you first started swinging and you notice the black men were attracted to what was your first reaction?

Speaker 2 (11m 27s): Oh my gosh. That was wild. Like that’s all I wanted to flirt with was the black men. It’s just a big turn on. Maybe it’s because it’s something. When I was young, I was not allowed to talk to them. That was the time when people were moving, there are white schools and black schools and people were getting busted. So when all that happened, I was, I was overwhelmed.

I, I thought it was empowering to this day. I love that’s my kink. I love black men. They’re just that, that attracts me. Like some people have a feet fetish or pantyhose. It’s, it’s something that that’s my kink.

Speaker 1 (12m 16s): Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And you know, obviously you and your husband swing and your husband doesn’t have any problem with what you do.

Speaker 2 (12m 28s): Oh, no, not at all.

Speaker 1 (12m 30s): It sounds like he really likes it.

Speaker 2 (12m 32s): He loves to watch. It’s a big turn on and then it’s exciting for us later on.

Speaker 1 (12m 38s): Yeah, of course. Of course. What about your family? I mean, does your family know what you do and what do they think?

Speaker 2 (12m 45s): It’s funny. This generation has been so open. I should say the next two generations AF I’ve got grandchildren that actually know, and some of them are, oh yes. And then some of them are already doing their thing and only fans and other places.

Speaker 1 (13m 5s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (13m 6s): So, yeah. It’s, it’s great. My I’ve got five girls and 11 grandchildren and yeah, it’s been wild. They’re all over.

Speaker 1 (13m 19s): And you’ve got grandchildren or who were on only fans.

Speaker 2 (13m 22s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (13m 24s): That’s fricking awesome.

Speaker 2 (13m 27s): I have, and now I have two great grandchildren.

Speaker 1 (13m 30s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (13m 32s): Still babies, but

Speaker 1 (13m 33s): Oh my God. Oh, that’s awesome. That’s that’s quite a family. Have you always been in Florida?

Speaker 2 (13m 39s): Oh yes. I’m a Floridian. I, this I’m in Fort Lauderdale and I love traveling.

Speaker 1 (13m 48s): Yeah. Yeah. Hey guys, you guys should come out to Thailand sometime. You’d love it.

Speaker 2 (13m 53s): Oh, I I’ve seen pictures. It looks beautiful.

Speaker 1 (13m 56s): I got some pictures for you that I’ll send after the, after we do our interview from dinner last night and you’ll want to come. So tell me about the queen of spades tattoo on your back.

Speaker 2 (14m 9s): Well, it started out where I was seeing all these girls when I was starting to, to swing. And I saw the girls where they had tattoos on their lower back, just normal design. And some these tattoos you can buy to put on your ankle. And that just wasn’t enough for me. I thought bull horns, queen of spades.

I thought, yeah, that’s what I want. So I started to draw out the queen of spades in the middle, and then I have a bowl on each side, which represents, of course my handsome black men. And they, the, each horn is inside the queen of spades on. So it’s balanced. I love it. And I do get a lot of comments.

Speaker 1 (15m 4s): Sure. And obviously the, that the meaning is pretty self-evident. So why do you prefer black men?

Speaker 2 (15m 14s): I find that not only when I’m out that I catch them staring at me the most, they’re not discrete. They’re obvious. Most of their personalities are bold, which I love it’s a turn on because they don’t hide what they think.

Speaker 1 (15m 37s): Well, it’s nice to be wanted. Of course.

Speaker 2 (15m 39s): Yes. And so I returned the looks, of course. And I find that most of them are handsome and fit, which I love. And then I’ve decided, I’ve discovered they have a lot more down below too. So

Speaker 1 (15m 60s): Well, I was waiting for that. I was, I was waiting for the myth, but it’s not, not necessarily a myth. Yes.

Speaker 2 (16m 7s): It’s very true. Very true. In fact, it’s, I’ve got them all. I still continually, I think I have at least five a day that are emailing me, wanting to shoot with me and they’re showing me their pictures of them. Wow.

Speaker 1 (16m 23s): Well, what notable black porn actress have you worked with?

Speaker 2 (16m 26s): As far as men I’ve been with Jack Slayer, Richard man, Jonathan Jordan, which is pussy bandit. His nickname’s pussy bandit there, I think the most popular, but I’ve been out there. Oh, and Don Sudan. He actually has a son that does, does porn. Also. He’s up, he’s up in his fifties. There. He’s really nice.

All the guys are so nice. They’re so thoughtful, friendly. And they do keep in touch. It’s it’s it’s real. A real good profession. It’s

Speaker 1 (17m 10s): Do you do all your, do you do all your shooting out in Florida or do you, do you go out to LA for some?

Speaker 2 (17m 17s): Oh no. I go to LA. I go to Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 (17m 21s): Vegas.

Speaker 2 (17m 23s): Yeah. Yeah. But most of the time and I’ve gone to Atlanta, I was starting to go to New York, but with COVID everything slowed down. So it’s but I’m anxious to get out there again. I had, since let’s see here January, no, December, I went back out to California and it’s starting to get busy again.

Speaker 1 (17m 49s): Hmm, good. Yes. That seems to be the case as we record this in February when we’re not going to run it until the summer, but with the backlog of interviews we’ve got, but yeah. Things are starting to get back to normal. Thank goodness. So tell me about your favorite positions

Speaker 2 (18m 10s): Like that.

Speaker 1 (18m 11s): I liked the, I liked that. I liked that sound you make.

Speaker 2 (18m 15s): Well, I honestly have to say doggy style. It depends on what you’re getting though. If it’s only one-on-one it’s doggy, although I could still be on top for D double penetration too. I love that one. My gang bangs. When I get DP, usually I like the guy underneath me and I’m on top and then there’s someone else above me.

They know how to definitely satisfy. Gosh, it’s, it’s a lot of fun. And then of course, then I love to be having a cock in each hand and you know, in my mouth airtight, they’re fun. It’s I get hornier when I’m having gang banks. The more I have, the more cock I have, the more the horny or I get and the harder the climax,

Speaker 1 (19m 16s): Well Seca, you’re in the right business then. So are there certain kind of shoots you prefer?

Speaker 2 (19m 25s): I love acting. I love in the beginning where there’s a storyline. Is that what you mean? Yeah. There’s some exciting ones where I’ve been in the park where I’m I have a Frisbee and I’m throwing it and hit the guy. Then there’s another one where I’m jogging and the guy comes running by and catches up and he runs into the tree. I like those kinds of things.

Speaker 1 (19m 53s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 54s): I love it. It’s there’s recent one that I did with Brazzers and we were actually playing bingo and I stole some of those bingo chips and stuffed them down light top. And that ended up yelling bingo and my top flies open and all the chips come flying out. That was a lot of good. I love a good shoots like that. There it’s, it’s a challenge at the same time.

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): Well, you seem to really enjoy what you do is, is, is, would that be a, a fair assessment?

Speaker 2 (20m 34s): Oh yes. I love it. If I, I wish I had discovered this many years ago and the technology actually we did, but the technology wasn’t out there.

Speaker 1 (20m 48s): Right, right. Yeah. It’s come along, come along the line.

Speaker 2 (20m 52s): Yes. The DVDs were around them and that’s all you could do is go to an adult bookstore and purchase it there

Speaker 1 (21m 0s): Before that VHS. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21m 2s): Yeah. Oh, I remember that

Speaker 1 (21m 6s): Betamax before that. I remember all of it. Oh God. We’re around the same age. So yeah. We’ve, we’ve had similar life experiences for sure. So what are you besides, besides cock? What are your hobbies?

Speaker 2 (21m 23s): Oh, my hobbies. That’s funny. You said that because my other girl, daughter, that’s I’m into this also. I started making her outfits for us, for cosplay and doing her outfits for she dresses up.

Speaker 1 (21m 38s): Are you, are you at, are you at Liberty to give her name on this?

Speaker 2 (21m 43s): I don’t think I should because she’s in a different direction. So she, so I, so I love sewing besides, besides my gym, I do cycling. I love, you know, those race bikes. I do cycling. So I do two different things that keep me in shape. And then I love my sewing. And of course

Speaker 1 (22m 10s): It sounds like you do three different things to keep you in shape. You’ve got Jim, you’ve got the bike bicycling and you got your sexercise.

Speaker 2 (22m 17s): Yes. In fact, those helped me with my gang bangs working out. You definitely have to. Yeah. The gang bang. You have to work out.

Speaker 1 (22m 28s): Yeah. I mean, I don’t think people realize, okay. And again, I’ve, I’ve learned a lot from reading the reading, dropping loads. I don’t think people realize the physical shape. You need to beat in to do porn scenes.

Speaker 2 (22m 44s): Oh yes, definitely. You know, those guys get they’re pretty strong. And when you get picked up, for example, you gotta be able to hold on. And then of course, when they’re fucking you, you gotta be up there and not falling down on your face. There’s a lot of things which I don’t like push back cause I want more.

Speaker 1 (23m 9s): Hmm. I love it. Okay. So what are your goals in the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (23m 16s): My goals to shoot more with the big companies right now, I’ve with COVID, I’ve been doing a lot more of Cammy and Skype, right? So I’m looking forward to the next five years of a certain starting to shoot and travel more to Los Angeles and Vegas, those types of things with the big porn companies.

Speaker 1 (23m 45s): Okay. It’s,

Speaker 2 (23m 46s): It’s fun to shoot with our own little production company that we have privately. And of course we’re finding a lot more talent,

Speaker 1 (23m 57s): Right? They’re finding you obviously.

Speaker 2 (23m 59s): Yes. Yes. And I’ve been finding some really good BBC out there and they’re young. They love being with the step-mom older woman that seems to be taking off quite a bit. So, yeah. It’s fun.

Speaker 1 (24m 19s): So now you said you like to travel, where do you like to go?

Speaker 2 (24m 23s): I think my favorite places. Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 (24m 26s): Hm. Oh. That’s you know, we have that. We have that in common. It’s one of my least favorite places.

Speaker 2 (24m 34s): Wow.

Speaker 1 (24m 35s): I O D yeah. Keep in mind. I grew up in California. Okay. So I, I had had a lot of Las Vegas before I got in the adult industry. And then when I got into the adult industry, we had all those shows, Hey, I gotta tell ya Vegas, doesn’t do it for me. I’ll go. I go to the shows. I like Internext and AVN, although AVN didn’t happen this year. Hopefully it will. In the future. I have my doubts, but I’m hoping it will. But yeah.

Vegas has never been my kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (25m 8s): Ah, well maybe I probably, because like you said, you’ve had plenty of it. Just like I’ve had plenty of Florida and the beach. Yeah. I’ve been here all my life. So I want those bright lights and more shows. And when I do travel there lately, it’s for shoots. I hardly get to see and relax and just enjoy Vegas.

Speaker 1 (25m 33s): Yeah. And there’s a lot to do. There’s a lot to do. There’s good dining. There’s obviously the shows. So yeah, those are good things to take advantage. I’m not saying it’s a total loss. I’m just saying it’s not my favorite place. And keep in mind, living internationally. It really broadens your horizons. And it really gives you a better idea of the world. And you realize that an exotic trip is not going to Hawaii. You know, and most Americans are like, well, I’ve been to Hawaii and I go, well, where else have you been?

Nowhere. Okay. So any place else, besides, besides Vegas that, that you, like,

Speaker 2 (26m 19s): I used to say New York city, I’m hoping one day that I can get back there.

Speaker 1 (26m 25s): That’s a great town.

Speaker 2 (26m 26s): Yes. I love New York.

Speaker 1 (26m 29s): Do you feel like New York? You probably, you probably like Bangkok. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, definitely. It’s crazy town.

Speaker 2 (26m 36s): Well, it sounds like it would be wild there actually.

Speaker 1 (26m 41s): Yeah. I think you and your husband would have a blast.

Speaker 2 (26m 47s): Well, we’ll have to look into that one then.

Speaker 1 (26m 49s): Definitely. Definitely. So besides shooting with production companies, you mentioned new talent, you know, how many, how many guys have you, have you found and what new talent would you be interested in mentioning good name?

Speaker 2 (27m 13s): Very, yes. He did pick out a really good talent name. Yes. And he’s in the middle of Florida and he is like six, two real dark. And he has a real deep voice. That’s the thing. I love deeper voices. And that’s a big turn on to me.

Speaker 1 (27m 40s): I’ll try it. I’ll try to drop it a few octaves. The rest of the podcast. How’s that as a, as a, as a, as a former sportscaster, I can do that.

Speaker 2 (27m 50s): Ah, very good. He’s just got this natural end. He does speak up when he’s in a shoot, he doesn’t hesitate. He’s not shy. I run across a few, a lot of shy black men, and you’ve got to get them to say a few lines in that. Sometimes it’s difficult. I don’t know if it’s just because they’re nervous for their first time, but anyway.

Speaker 1 (28m 19s): Yeah, it could be, could be it’s. So is w how is the, how is the porn shooting scene in Florida is a pretty active.

Speaker 2 (28m 32s): Yes, very. I’ve heard lately from the guys that they’re surprised the ones that do come into town from other parts of the country that they have quite a few shoots lined up with L S because there are so many in Florida and south Florida.

Speaker 1 (28m 53s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, Miami’s, I think always had, some has always had a reasonable Miami and Fort Lauderdale. I’ve always had a reasonable amount of, of shot of shoots down there. And there were some companies down there that are, that are pretty big. So absolutely paper streets down in that area. And I know they have a lot of sites and they do a lot of things. So, so what types of custom videos do you shoot?

Speaker 2 (29m 21s): Well, I’ve done a cock hold where of course the BBC and I, and then there’s a couple of guys that have wanted to pretend like they were my husband and some of those videos, that’s been a lot of fun. Then I’ve had a lot more stepson or my daughter, and she brings home her boyfriend, that type of thing. That’s gotten very popular. I’ve gotten a lot of requests for that.

It is, they do work out really well. In fact, I think Brazzers was one of those shoots where I was moving in on the stepson.

Speaker 1 (30m 7s): Yeah. I mean, do you, and I know this is performance and it’s not real, but as a grandma, as a great grandma, does it ever occur to you when you’re doing like a step son scene, for instance, does that ever bother you or do you just kind of chalk it all up to being a performance art?

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): No, honestly, I look at that person handsome, very attractive. I check out what’s below. That’s all I need.

Speaker 1 (30m 44s): Yeah. Great. See you guys. I love your honesty is love your honesty. Your you’re hilarious. I love it. So what is your secret to staying fit and young, you know, to look at you, it’s really hard to believe your age.

Speaker 2 (30m 59s): Part of it is my genes. I do have my mom’s still living at 89 years old.

Speaker 1 (31m 6s): Bless her heart.

Speaker 2 (31m 6s): We have five generations live right now. She’s yes. She it’s got a lot to do with the fit structure of my generation, my family they’re I think they’re German and Swedish.

Speaker 1 (31m 24s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31m 26s): Yeah. Yeah. And they’re all, they’ve all, they don’t have a weight problems, so, and I’ve always stayed in shape following. I never smoked. That’s got a lot to do with it. Yeah. So I think that’s, that’s part, most of them,

Speaker 1 (31m 42s): You take care of yourself too. YouTube talked about biking and you talked about going to the gym. I mean, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a real commitment, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (31m 53s): Oh, yes. I know. I have a couple of other MRLs I keep in touch with, and it’s the same thing with them. They they’re always at the gym. It’s a Def definite thing you have to do all the time eating. We stay away from restaurants. And of course that was easy this past year.

Speaker 1 (32m 15s): Well, it’s easy to stay away from something when it’s closed. That’s true.

Speaker 2 (32m 19s): Yes, definitely. But eat healthy. That’s all.

Speaker 1 (32m 23s): Yeah, absolutely. Hey, we went to a restaurant last night and last night and I had a sea bass and stir fried vegetables. That’s not too unhealthy. Is it?

Speaker 2 (32m 31s): Oh, that’s perfect.

Speaker 1 (32m 32s): Oh, and the sea bass here, they kill it and they cook it and they put the whole fish on your plate.

Speaker 2 (32m 38s): Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (32m 39s): That sounds amazing. I get pictures for you. So how large is your family?

Speaker 2 (32m 45s): Well, my cousins I’ve got at least 52. I think they, yeah, 52. My moms, my mom, her family is so seven children had 52 children. Yes, they

Speaker 1 (33m 7s): Were. It was a great guess or Catholic or Mormon for sure. One of the two.

Speaker 2 (33m 17s): Well, they work in the country. Yeah. My, I think my father’s side was, they were farmers and my mothers was the rich side and they built basements for homes. That’s that’s the combination.

Speaker 1 (33m 35s): Wow. Wow. So

Speaker 2 (33m 38s): I don’t know my cousins I off.

Speaker 1 (33m 41s): Yeah. So what are your goals for the balance of 2022?

Speaker 2 (33m 46s): Oh 2022? Well, my goal is going to be to organize. I have so many different websites where my videos are, are at. Yeah. And I have a couple of different cam sites. My goal is to minimize of just two to two of each, because I have my, I have too many. My ALS my other goal is to start traveling more and shooting.

Yeah. That would be a lot more fun.

Speaker 1 (34m 23s): Right.

Speaker 2 (34m 24s): And also have a schedule for my camps. I, right now I’ve been not at one place at one time and I need to start to do that and then find some more talent out there.

Speaker 1 (34m 40s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34m 41s): I’ve got, I’ve found a few and I love shooting with new talent. There’s so much fun. And Hey, I’m at this age and I have so many guys coming to me and saying, Hey, I’ve always thought about doing it. Can you try me out? And I just have them. I go from there, I send them the requirements. And it’s a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (35m 9s): Yeah. Well, and at that fun seems to be the operative word for you. So how do your fans contact you if they want to get into the business?

Speaker 2 (35m 20s): My, well, I have a couple of emails. My main email is Seca black sixty9@gmail.com. Okay. I have a website. My main website is Seca black.net. Not

Speaker 1 (35m 38s): What happened to the.com. Was that the old one?

Speaker 2 (35m 42s): No. Somebody found out that I was trying it and they bought it right away and then they wanted some money for it. So,

Speaker 1 (35m 53s): Oh, you know what? You should do. You should, you should trademark your a

Speaker 2 (35m 58s): I’ve. That sounds like a great idea.

Speaker 1 (36m 2s): Well, like I said, we’ll talk, we’ll talk, we’ll talk offline. So Seca, I would like to thank you again for being our guests today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon. Thank you. My broker tip today is part four of how to buy a website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer. The work begins. If you’re working with a broker, let’s say adult site broker, for instance, we handled the negotiation for you.

Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counteroffer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their offer or counter back to them. A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That is the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done.

During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day and any other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing. You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask these pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself draw up a sales agreement.

I always tell my clients to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules. However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney changed. Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we do for our clients is a letter of intent. Prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow.

For instance, this can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week, we’ll be speaking with Dee Severe of Severe Sex Films. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Seka Black. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with therapist Dr. Monique.

ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker would like to announce we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts! That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale.

A profitable industry, recognized dating network with a unique channel for genuine female adult dating traffic. The company was launched in 2010. It was nominated best dating program by X biz in 2012 and AVN in 2013, they’ve generated nearly 200,000 profiles of real women to the dating network and continue to add approximately 5,500 new women each month through natural search results and unpaid link placement.

These women have created sexy profiles and uploaded photos to attract men and most of supply to government issued photo ID. These profiles can be imported into any dating or cam network. The network’s traffic is 91% direct and 8% organic search geo-targeting services, runoff MaxMind data. They’ve never marketed to their list or members outside their own network of dating sites. So this is a huge opportunity for anyone interested in marketing, similar dating offers or other adult content and services.

The main developers available to continue as a contractor only 372,000 us dollars. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today and adult type broker talk is Dr. Monique Dr. Monique, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 44s): Thank you for having me

Speaker 1 (2m 46s): Great to have you. Dr. Monique is a mental health therapist contracted with pineapple support who provides therapy and coaching services to performers around the world. By the way adults, I broke her talk is a, a pineapple support, and we believe very strongly in what they do. She earned a doctorate in behavioral health with a primary focus in health psychology from Arizona state university. She also holds a master’s in mental health counseling with an emphasis in crisis and trauma from Walden university.

She’s a long time therapeutic practitioner who has a unique passion for working with professionals in the adult industry and sex workers of all sexual expressions. She’s contracted. As I said, with pineapple support and works daily to de-stigmatize mental health and sex workers in her experience, she’s noticed that sex work is an industry that lacks a safe space for sex workers to be their authentic selves. As a result, her longtime goal has been to connect and help our clients develop better emotional, cognitive, and positive coping skills while valuing, respecting, and providing sex workers with the dignity they deserve.

She brings an effective blend of experience, clarity, concern, and action to the therapeutic process. In order to maximize treatment outcomes, provide genuine healing and wholesomeness to her clients so they can make positive changes in their life. Now she has a private practice rose LLC. That’s based in Las Vegas, Viva Las Vegas in a work with sex workers, and she does up to 16 sessions of therapy, regardless of location and sorry, Dr.

Monique that’s all the time we have for today. Just kidding.

Speaker 2 (4m 34s): So

Speaker 1 (4m 37s): How did you first get interested in working with sex workers?

Speaker 2 (4m 42s): I’ve always been kind of an outcast. The majority of my close friends, close female friends are sex workers, or they work in the adult industry from Arizona to California to Miami. And they have been a part of, of my, of my own personal growth. And I figured the only way for me to give back to them other than going in, supporting them at their events or at their clubs or wherever there might be performing, that would be, you know, to, to work with sex workers on a more intimate level and create that safe space for them.

Speaker 1 (5m 24s): That’s fantastic. Yes. Sex workers definitely are outcasts by society and to find somebody like yourself who has that commitment, that’s, that’s really fantastic.

Speaker 2 (5m 38s): Very rewarding for me.

Speaker 1 (5m 40s): Yeah. It would be rewarding because you know, when you’re dealing with a group of people that others don’t want to work with, it must be really nice to be dug in with that group.

Speaker 2 (5m 56s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (5m 57s): So it is sex worker counseling, all you do, or do you work with non-sex workers?

Speaker 2 (6m 4s): Yeah. So it’s actually not all I do. It’s so half of my private practice is adults and half of those adults are sex workers or in the adult industry. And then the other half are non-sex workers and then the other half. So the other 50% are children, children and families.

Speaker 1 (6m 24s): Interesting. Interesting. So what do you, what do you see the differences between the issue sex workers face and non-sex workers

Speaker 2 (6m 34s): For me? I would say my experience in the last couple of years kind of post COVID has been just the stigma around the job or the jobs that’s about it.

Speaker 1 (6m 48s): Okay. Okay. Can I, can you get into a little more detail on that?

Speaker 2 (6m 52s): Yeah. So, I mean, when someone comes in, even if they’re referred through pineapple support, they don’t know, they don’t know that. I know that they’re a sex worker, unless I tell them. Right. So they don’t, there’s a place on my intake form that says, will you tell me about your employment history? Like, are you currently employed? And most people leave that blank. Even non-sex workers leave that blank. So it’s something that I always have to bring up during the first session after we chop it up for the first 15, 20 minutes, I asked them.

So, you know, do you need a, do you need an excuse for missing work today? And then usually it comes out then? Well, no, because I work for myself. This is what I do, or yes, I do. Can you give me an excuse? Like a doctor’s not.

Speaker 1 (7m 37s): Yeah. Do you find that sex workers are less likely to tell you what they do or more likely?

Speaker 2 (7m 45s): I would say after the first, like 15, 20 minutes, they’re more likely to tell me everything.

Speaker 1 (7m 52s): <inaudible>, they’re more open. Okay.

Speaker 2 (7m 55s): And I also don’t look like a lot of therapists. I think when they come in or they read my credentials online, they expect something. So I try and have all of my social media and stuff, kind of reflective of me. I post pictures of myself or post pictures of my family and my husband. I don’t look like the typical therapist, you know, they expect they’re going to walk in and you’re going to have like this cookie cutter person in the suits or something. I’m laying on a couch with a clipboard and that’s not, that’s not what I do.

Speaker 1 (8m 28s): Yeah. What’s been your impression over time in sex worker, just issues. I mean, what issues are common with them

Speaker 2 (8m 44s): And say the most common ones are relationships like how to manage relationships well-being in the industry. Is that something that’s possible? Is it something that’s looked down? The other big one are addictions. So drugs, alcohol, even recreational alcohol, recreational, marijuana, tobacco, everything too much of something is bad. Too much of anything is bad. Too much. Coffee is probably the top two.

Speaker 1 (9m 19s): What about trauma?

Speaker 2 (9m 20s): Yeah, definitely a lot of trauma. And usually once we get into those first two topics, trauma always comes up.

Speaker 1 (9m 27s): Okay. When you’re dealing with trauma with sex workers, what are your biggest challenges?

Speaker 2 (9m 37s): I I’d say the first biggest challenge is for them to say out loud to a stranger, what their trauma is. I always tell people, you know, in that first session, like I’ve been on the other side of the couch. I’ve been on the other side of the couch as a mom and as a human being in many different forms throughout my whole entire life. And as a wife and as a girlfriend and as an addict.

And so once I, once I kind of give them some self disclosure and let them know they’re talking to another human being alphabet soup behind their name, to help them through their journey, they’re usually able to open up.

Speaker 1 (10m 21s): So you’ve had addiction problems yourself,

Speaker 2 (10m 23s): Definitely.

Speaker 1 (10m 25s): Oh, wow. Do you want to get into any details?

Speaker 2 (10m 28s): My choice of drag was cocaine and in 2005, my oldest daughter’s dad was murdered. And that’s what I did to cope for a long time. And it took, you know, lots of things to happen. The world took that energy and did with it, what it did and told me I need to get my head out of my ass or I was going to lose my kid.

Speaker 1 (10m 57s): And you, you express your experiences. You tell them what you’ve been through.

Speaker 2 (11m 3s): Yeah. If I find it, it’s going to be helpful for the therapeutic relationship or for the therapy P whatever’s going on with them. Especially if I sense some hesitation, I’ll let them know here. Let me tell you something about me. So you don’t see me. Cause a lot of times people come in and they see, oh, a therapist while they’re holier than thou furthest from the truth.

Speaker 1 (11m 27s): Yeah. Yeah. Talk about the trauma that you went through, obviously with the murder. Talk about that and talk about how it relates to the trauma that you see in sex workers. In general. I know you can’t get into specifics with clients, but talk about the differences and the similarities.

Speaker 2 (11m 56s): I would say the only differences would be like the act of trauma. So my trauma was being the homicide survivor and their trauma. Some of them have very same, you know, similar stories or, you know, they are homicide survivors themselves. They refer to them as something else. I always refer to everyone who survived anything as a survivor. And so just the act, the actual trauma act is different, but everything else is the same.

The grief that goes along with it, you know, I think now there’s nine stages of grief. So nine stages of grief in and out over the course of many years and many therapists and medication, even for me personally. And you know, there’s still bouts where I get sad and that’s what happens with people as they work through it, they feel like, okay, I’ve come to a place in my journey where they’ve accepted this. And then lo and behold, you’re driving down the street and something comes on your, you know, playlist and you’re hearing your feelings again.

It takes you back to whatever happened.

Speaker 1 (13m 1s): How long ago was that?

Speaker 2 (13m 2s): Well, it was in 2005. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (13m 6s): Sure, sure. But yeah, I, in 17 years that doesn’t go away.

Speaker 2 (13m 11s): No, no, not when you have a kid that looks like him every day.

Speaker 1 (13m 14s): Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine. I, I can’t imagine actually. So what types of trauma do you face dealing with sex workers? What are some of the acts of trauma? When we talk about sex workers, I know we’re talking about adult performers, but we’re also talking about prostitutes to, to use a slang word. And I’m sure in Las Vegas, you come across a lot of those, it being one of the prostitution capitals of America.

What types of trauma do you come across in dealing with your clients

Speaker 2 (13m 59s): And say a lot of trauma related to consent? So sexual trauma, addiction, trauma, a lot of domestic violence like intimate, intimate violence, intimate partner violence. IPV is a new term. So a lot of, a lot of violence like that. And then, you know, for my clientele, I’d say of the 25% sex workers that I work with about 10 to 15% of them have children.

So this trauma related to their children that they deal with as a parent,

Speaker 1 (14m 38s): Okay. Now the sex workers that deal with clients out there, do you find that there’s a lot of violence against them that they relate to you

Speaker 2 (14m 50s): I’d say so during quarantine, and then since Las Vegas has kind of opened back up to kind of run, normally, if you will, it’s minimized or at least from what’s reported to me.

Speaker 1 (15m 6s): Interesting. Interesting. Now the people with children, what kind of traumas do they go through?

Speaker 2 (15m 14s): Well, things like getting their kids into school, the majority of my clients have kids that are like in middle school, middle schoolers, look that look up on the internet. Lots of things. So the potential of, you know, some, some parent getting found out like, Hey, your mom does this or Hey, your dad does this and kind of forecasting. What is that conversation going to look like? Or if it’s already happened, let’s figure out how we can make it an open conversation to not make them feel uncomfortable, or you feel uncomfortable as a parent.

Speaker 1 (15m 52s): Do you find most of your sex worker clients that their kids know what they do?

Speaker 2 (15m 59s): I’d say it’s like half and half.

Speaker 1 (16m 1s): Okay. And I would imagine that for the other half, well, for both half. So it probably creates issues, right?

Speaker 2 (16m 10s): Yeah. Yeah. It definitely does. I don’t know if you have kids, Bruce, but kids will throw anything in your face parent or no parents.

Speaker 1 (16m 18s): I was a kid I got picked on bloody. So, you know. Yeah. I mean, I understand, I understand how cruel children can be. I think everyone can cause they were all kids at one point. So yes. And I can only imagine. I mean, what happens when somebody works in porn? Okay. Works in an adult and I mean, let’s face it. Okay. Kids sadly are able to get on the internet and look at adult content.

What happens generally when a client of yours gets found out and they come to you,

Speaker 2 (17m 3s): It’s usually a conversation. I process it with them. And when I say process, we go through it all, like, how was it brought to your attention? What did you feel in that moment? What are you feeling now in that moment telling me what can we do to work through it? A lot of times we’ll have to bring the child in and they have a session with me, their parents. They’re kind of me as a mediator just to kind of get everything out in the open.

Speaker 1 (17m 32s): Yeah. I guess having children as clients definitely helps that.

Speaker 2 (17m 38s): Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (17m 41s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (17m 41s): I have lots of cool things in my office, in my office too. So I have like a sand tray. I have Legos. So a lot of times, even I think my adults play more with the sand tray or the kinetic sand have like these little emotion cons. I can send you a picture of the adults play with more with those than the kids do.

Speaker 1 (18m 1s): We’re all big kids now. Aren’t we really now how can your mental health cause burnout?

Speaker 2 (18m 11s): Well, what do you define? How do you define burnout? Can I ask you that?

Speaker 1 (18m 17s): I define it. That’s a good question. Why don’t you tell me how you define it?

Speaker 2 (18m 24s): So for me, when someone comes in and they’re telling me, Hey, Dr. Mooney gone and filling, let’s see, I’m filling one of the big trigger words. This year has been imposter syndrome, thanks to tick knock and all that. So I have lots of clients coming in sex workers and they taught me, I’m feeling very, imposturous like, I play this person on scene or I play this person at work. And then I come home and I was just me. And so there’s a lot of, self-doubt a sense of failure, not being good enough, feeling helpless or defeated, or even trapped feeling detached.

So like, you know, they can be working these wonderful doc jobs, a great, you know, see me, but leave and just felt completely like, not themselves. Like they’re no longer there. A lack of motivation is another sign of burnout, having like a cynical or negative outlook, decreased satisfaction in things that they once like, like having no, no sense of accomplishment essentially.

Speaker 1 (19m 34s): Hmm. You mentioned motivation. So how can your mental health affect your motivation and what do you do about it as a therapist?

Speaker 2 (19m 44s): So your mental health can affect motivation. And a lot of ways, I don’t know if too many people know this, but I was taught in my master’s program. That there’s five stages of burnout. There’s a honeymoon phase, which is where you feel so burnt out, but you know, you gotta do it. And so it’s like the stage of that comes with lots of energy, lots of optimism, lots of motivation. There’s the onset of stress phase, which comes right around when that honeymoon phase dwindles out and you start to experience the stress.

So I don’t know if you’ve ever done like so many podcasts recordings in a week and you feel like, oh yeah, I’m so, so happy and excited and motivated to do it. And then comes like the next week. And you’ve just like

Speaker 1 (20m 32s): Completely

Speaker 2 (20m 33s): Pummeled into the hole. And you’re like, oh my God, I got to edit these now. Or I don’t know the processes, but you’re just like, Ugh. So that’s the onset stress phase of

Speaker 1 (20m 42s): Burnout,

Speaker 2 (20m 44s): Chronic chronic stress phase where that onset phase continues and it doesn’t go away. Then it’s the actual burnout phase and then habitual burnout phase where you just don’t, don’t come out of it and you need to find help.

Speaker 1 (20m 58s): And once someone comes to you with that fifth phase, how do you get them out of it?

Speaker 2 (21m 5s): Well, hopefully they come to me by like the second or third base. But if I get them at the fifth stage, then I have to sit with them and kind of reevaluate what got them there. And that’s really hard for people because in that moment, all they can think about is what got them to therapy in that very moment

Speaker 1 (21m 22s): Where they are.

Speaker 2 (21m 23s): Yeah. It’s not until we meet three or four times that they’re like, oh, okay. Well, I remember two months before I reached out to pineapple support and got paired with you, I was going through a, B and C and then we’re able to kind of bring it back to light. I call it rakes through it. So I imagine like we live a life of leaves and when we’re experiencing burnout, it turns into a big pile of leaves that we just landed. And then you need someone to help you break that out and I’m there to help you rake out everything.

We make piles and we throw some stuff away, some other stuff we don’t need anymore.

Speaker 1 (22m 1s): Right. So how are sex workers with past unresolved traumas affected by sex worker experiences?

Speaker 2 (22m 11s): In my experience thus far, working with sex workers, what I’m coming to the conclusion too, is that a lot of sex workers who have unresolved trauma are in sex work to resolve that trauma,

Speaker 1 (22m 25s): Interesting

Speaker 2 (22m 26s): Sex work offers a lot of freedom to people who have previously been in a, in a controlling, you know, domestic violence relationship or controlling family life, a lot of older siblings and middle children. And if you’re going to come from me, I’m sorry, but I’m a middle child. So, so I understand that

Speaker 1 (22m 49s): A I’m a beginning, middle and end child.

Speaker 2 (22m 53s): Oh, wow. Okay. And so I think a lot of, again, in my experience with my clientele, a lot of these performers have unresolved traumas that they’re working through actively and that that’s, what’s kind of pushed them to the sex work industry.

Speaker 1 (23m 12s): So once they do that, and you said a lot of them are coming into sex work to try to confront their traumas, do those traumas get healed or do they not get healed or what ends up happening? In most cases

Speaker 2 (23m 31s): I would say, well, I don’t know. I don’t know in most cases, but I know what the clients that I see that I, or clients who, who are proactive on their mental health and asked for help probably have a, have a higher rate of working through that trauma. I think other times it goes the other way where like those addictions take into place, they go back into, you know, negative, unhealthy relationships, not just with significant others, but even with family members or with, with work environments.

Speaker 1 (24m 7s): I mean, in most cases, do you think that sex workers are totally healthy and I’m pro Megan in trouble for asking this, but are totally healthy mentally. And God knows, I don’t know how many of us are when they come into sex work or are they coming into sex work and in, in a lot or most cases because of their past experiences,

Speaker 2 (24m 37s): I would say they’re coming into sex work because of their past experiences.

Speaker 1 (24m 41s): Okay. And what are some of the past experiences that lead people into sex work?

Speaker 2 (24m 48s): I’m not sure. I can’t speak to that as a whole though with my clientele. The themes that that are common are like the ones that I said, relationships, poor relationships, unhealthy relationships, not just with a significant other. It can be with previous employers, both in and out of sex work, family, you know, toxic family members. That’s a big one. That’s a real big one.

Speaker 1 (25m 14s): How about, how about, how about, how about their upbringing? How does your upbringing affect somebody getting into sex work as they’re, as they’re being raised by their parents?

Speaker 2 (25m 27s): One of my methodologies that I work from is a foundation of attachment styles attachment. So one of the first things I do with clients when they come in is I send them a short quiz that they complete. They send me the results and it basically gives me their attachment style. From there. I ask them some questions through a conversation similar, like the one we’re having today and I evaluate their adverse childhood experiences.

And then from there I’m able to glean kind of what their childhood was like. Mostly what it ends up is, you know, people have an insecure or an unhealthy attachment style. So we latch on to different things in different ways because it makes us feel safe.

Speaker 1 (26m 16s): What is attachment style?

Speaker 2 (26m 18s): So attachment style is basically the way you interact with people, but there’s four main ones. There’s a secure attachment style, an anxious attachment style avoidance, which is avoidant and then fearful avoidant, which is kind of a disorganized, like that’s the type of person where you’re like, I want to be in a relationship and I’m going to make this relationship happen. The moment that motherfucker gets serious, you start blocking them and putting them on shine and not wanting to talk to them.

Speaker 1 (26m 50s): Ah, yes, yes. I dated one of those. So, you know, she had, she had, she had all kinds of issues. So how important is a sex worker support system and how diverse should their support system be?

Speaker 2 (27m 6s): I think sex workers, Stover support system should be as diverse as possible. It should not just be completely other sex workers will be completely just, you know, outside of the sex work and it should be a little bit of everyone and it should be people that support you, but at the same time, hold you accountable. And that’s where it gets tricky. Because a lot of times, as people, as a person, as part of someone’s support system, we want to, we want to help them.

And the last thing we want to do is piss them off. But in reality, what are we doing? We’re enabling that person. We’re enabling whatever behavior or whatever thing they’re doing. That’s not serving them. Right, right. So we’re not doing them any good. So if you’re going to be a part, you know, as you’re picking your support system, try and think about like, okay, when he has a big mouth, but I know she’ll tell me when I’m doing something good, but I also know she’ll hold me accountable. If I tell her, Hey, I’m going to do this. And then I come back three weeks later and she’s like, all right, where’s the progress for this?

Show me that, you know, accountability partner and I don’t have it to show it. She’s going to call me out on it.

Speaker 1 (28m 11s): And, and I mean, but, but do people actually do that consciously

Speaker 2 (28m 18s): Do

Speaker 1 (28m 19s): Pick their support system really. Okay. That’s, that’s interesting. And I assume that a support system is important.

Speaker 2 (28m 32s): Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It helps when you’re burnt out and helps when you’re getting past that honeymoon phase or if you’re in that honeymoon phase and you have, you know, a person who’s grounded in your support system that can tell you, Hey, you know, things are going really good right now, but I want you to be able to know that it’s not always going to happen like that. Right. So instead of going in spending, you know, I don’t know, a thousand dollars or spending all this on outfits or on cars or on a lifestyle.

How about you save it? How about you invested in this? Or how about this

Speaker 1 (29m 7s): And how important is the support system for sex workers versus non-sex workers?

Speaker 2 (29m 13s): And we’d say they’re both as important. There’s not one.

Speaker 1 (29m 17s): Okay. What are some positive coping skills that work with sex workers?

Speaker 2 (29m 24s): So the first one would be being mindful. So mindfulness is one of those things that has been pretty big recently and being mindful is just being fully present and aware of like where we are and we’re doing,

Speaker 1 (29m 42s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29m 43s): It helps us not be overly reactive to something or overwhelmed by what’s going on. And I think for me, when I asked people, can you be mindful? They look at me like with this blank stare. And they’re like, you want me to sit there and meditate? And I’m like, no, no, that’s not. What mindful means mindful is, you know, there’s mindful breathing where yeah, you take a moment, sometimes 30 seconds a minute and you take a deep breath. If you have one of those fancy smartwatches that usually has something on there to take a minute of mindfulness and know times you with your heart rate and stuff,

Speaker 1 (30m 20s): That was irritating me. I finally turned it off.

Speaker 2 (30m 25s): You have to start it again. Then maybe on your own terms though, mindful breathing, then there’s just concentration being aware of your body. Being aware of what you’re eating. A lot of us, me included, you know, we go out to eat for lunch or dinner or whatever breakfast. And we sit there and we’re sitting with someone, but you know, I’ll be down. If I don’t put my phone on the table to make sure nothing comes through. So in that moment, I’m not being mindful of what I’m doing.

I’m not being respectful either, but that’s a different topic

Speaker 1 (30m 59s): Sign of our times, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (31m 1s): Yeah. But releasing tension, walking, using coping skills and how to be mindful. Some other coping skills that I utilize with clients is being aware of where they feel it in their bodies. And so maybe throughout this podcast, someone’s going to listen to it. And maybe I said something, or you said something earlier and they fill it in their thighs or size hold a lot of stuff. We always go for our guts, like our bellies or shoulders, sometimes our test.

But a lot of people don’t even acknowledge like that their thighs get tense. Like you start to flex your butt. You start to flex your legs. Another part that often gets ignored is your tone. Your tongue in an upright position will make you stress all the way through your jaw, your neck all the way down.

Speaker 1 (31m 55s): Interesting. I got to tell you, this is fascinating. I’m learning a lot. And a lot of the things you’re saying I’m, I’m relating to my own experiences, my own life, my own stresses, my own, you know, relationships. And yeah, I got to tell you already, it’s it’s helping me. So thank you. How does sex workers suffer from body insecurity?

Speaker 2 (32m 23s): That’s a common one earlier. I had mentioned something about, I don’t know, I think filling like imposter syndrome, right? So that’s kind of just feeling like, like, how’d you get here, someone’s going to find me out. Someone’s to know that I’m not like this bad-ass person and there’s a lot of body insecurity and sex workers. I think, I think because of how they have to portray themselves, whether it’s camming or whether it’s dancing or whether it’s performing, they know they can’t be that 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Although they still try. And that trying is what kind of eats them up.

Speaker 1 (33m 8s): Yeah. I bet it would. I bet it would be exhausting.

Speaker 2 (33m 11s): Yeah. Oh

Speaker 1 (33m 14s): No, no, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (33m 14s): I was going to, I was going to say, when I work with clients and they tell me no, I’m having a lot of body insecurities. What I, what I try and help them, help them learn about more is kind of where those insecurities are coming from. Is it something that like society really expects them to look like 24 7? Or is it the narrative that they feed themselves? Because a lot of us feed ourselves, even myself. I’m, I’m not in sex work, but when I, when I work, I want to look presentable and my, my version of presentable cookie cutter version.

So I want to look nice. I wear a little bit of makeup. I have most of my makeup tattoos, so that’s easy, but I want to look decent. I have my nails done and there are some times where I’m like, okay, I’m human. I don’t want to dress up today. I just want to throw my hair in a bun and come into work.

Speaker 1 (34m 4s): Right.

Speaker 2 (34m 5s): And then what happens then is I start feeding myself or reinforcing this negative narrative of this lie that I tell myself that I’m not good enough that I don’t look like a therapist because I don’t look like a therapist. I’m not a good therapist. And I think a lot of the sex workers do that, we feed ourselves this negative, negative narrative or negative facts that we think are facts that support our negative narrative.

Speaker 1 (34m 33s): Yeah. You sound like a great therapist. So

Speaker 2 (34m 37s): Thank you.

Speaker 1 (34m 38s): So how important is an effective work-life balance for sex workers?

Speaker 2 (34m 44s): I think it’s very important. It’s as important as anything else, they need to be able to differentiate the two. And that’s where, you know, that support system comes in. That’s why you can’t just hop, you know, the same type of support system, because they’re gonna, they’re not going to be able to balance where you,

Speaker 1 (35m 4s): Okay. So how to interpersonal relationships such as dating or being in a relationship affect sex workers, mental health and their work.

Speaker 2 (35m 14s): That would be another, another podcast, Bruce. But in a nutshell,

Speaker 1 (35m 20s): I don’t know. I don’t have a time limit. So go forward.

Speaker 2 (35m 24s): Okay. In a nutshell though, I think it affects sex workers greatly. There’s a lot of times where it, you know, they can’t have a relationship with certain.

Speaker 1 (35m 38s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 39s): I think that’s a pretty open thing. Or they have an Eden. If they have an agent, they have an agent telling them, Hey, you know, maybe you should slow down on this or maybe you shouldn’t, you know, be seen out with them. And you know, to put those kinds of restrictions on people who are being vulnerable and have a vulnerable job is really, it’s really hard. It’s really defeating. It kind of goes back to that, feeding them selves a negative narrative. So you don’t know what’s going on in that other person’s head. So if you’re an agent and I’m telling you, Hey Bruce, you can’t, you can’t see Monique no more.

And you’re already in your head about how, you know, you shouldn’t be in that relationship. What’s that going to do? That’s going to support that negative lie. And then before you know, it, you’re down this rabbit hole, you can’t find yourself out of,

Speaker 1 (36m 24s): Do you ever come across a client where you advise them to get out of sex work for their mental health?

Speaker 2 (36m 33s): As of yet? I have not. I do advise them, you know, I do advise them to make sure that they’re setting good boundaries, that they’re respecting themselves and others, if they find that that work life balance is more work than life, then I’ll sit with them and we’ll figure out a plan. Like I have had clients who’ve taken out their itinerary with me and then like, okay, I’m going to Miami for four days. And I’m supposed to be camming this day, trading this day and doing this.

And so we go through each activity, we determine, okay, how is this going to support me? That’s one of my biggest questions that I ask my clients to ask themselves, how is this going to support me?

Speaker 1 (37m 16s): Yeah. Yeah. And I would imagine the ones with families that gets even more complicated. What are, I mean, what are some of those, those additional complications with their schedule and their kids?

Speaker 2 (37m 31s): The majority of the ones that, like I said, the ones that have children have a strong support system that, you know, takes care of their kids if they’re kind of away at shoots for a long period of time. So they have like reliable babysitters that’s super important, trustworthy babysitter, more so important. Or they have like an older child that can care for the other ones.

Speaker 1 (37m 56s): Yeah. Okay. So how has the pandemic effected sex workers, mental health? I’m sure it’s been devastating.

Speaker 2 (38m 3s): Yeah. I would say from what I gather from my clients so far, it hasn’t been, there’s been a lot of transitions that sex workers have gone to, or had to go through. A lot of them that were working kind of in person like a local gentleman, clubs and stuff had to move everything online to coming to phone sex, work to all the other sex work that’s available. And some of them had good results from that and others didn’t, but they’re still struggling to going back.

They still don’t know if they want to go back because they haven’t been back for like two years.

Speaker 1 (38m 43s): Yeah. I would imagine it would be traumatic for many sex workers to risk getting COVID.

Speaker 2 (38m 53s): Yeah. And I know a lot of the places locally here, they all require, you know, some type of COVID testing. In addition to the regular testing that goes on some of the producers I work with, they require everyone on set, you know, to have a COVID test. And if there’s any sign of any kind of, you know, immune systems stuff going on, even if it’s just a cold, they may just cancel things.

Speaker 1 (39m 22s): Okay. Well at least there’s some safeguards in place.

Speaker 2 (39m 26s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39m 27s): That’s a good thing. So Monique, how can someone contact you?

Speaker 2 (39m 31s): They can contact me through pineapple support. There’s other wonderful therapists on there. Also, you can usually go and look on there and click on your state pineapples because pineapple support does offer counseling and coaching. If you like. I have clients who live in New Zealand, but I have some that live in Japan. And so as long as we work out the time difference, I am able to see anyone from anywhere.

Speaker 1 (40m 1s): That’s all. And now about your private practice.

Speaker 2 (40m 5s): Yeah. So you go online, it’s key rose LLC, and I have the Twitter, Instagram, all the social media stuff.

Speaker 1 (40m 17s): Great. Hey, one more question. And we really didn’t cover this about pineapple support, you know, in when Leah for started pineapple support, I was thrilled and obviously there was a real emergency with performers taking their own life. Talk about the importance of something like pineapple support for the adult industry and how pineapple support needs companies and individuals and adults to support it financially.

Speaker 2 (40m 52s): Well, without I know with my clients without, without pineapple support, they would have never gotten help. And I often, you know, personally, just wonder like if, if they wouldn’t have gotten help, would they even be on this earth today? Pineapple support continues to help everyone. So they offer, like you said earlier up to six teen sessions. So if a performer is in a financial bind where they can’t afford it, they will cover the entire cost. All 16 sessions, no matter their gender, ethnicity, social status, age, sexual orientation, none of that matters to have an ever-growing team of sex worker friendly kink-aware therapists like myself to see you face-to-face or online.

They also have, I believe a 24 7 like connect to a listener online that you can click on. You can even call them, they have support groups that are free. And then once you sign up, you can even look at all of that stuff online. Or even without signing up, you can look at it online.

Speaker 1 (42m 3s): Can people request you there?

Speaker 2 (42m 6s): Yeah. Yep. There is a place that they can fill out or it’s like a request therapy. And then from there you, you can put, you know, here or there you want therapy with Dr. Monique.

Speaker 1 (42m 20s): Well, I know for a fact and talking to layer that, you know, one of the unfortunate but results of the pandemic and the current economy is, you know, support and sponsorship is down. Like I said, we continue to support it. And because we truly believe in their mission and I hope anyone and everyone listening will take that into account and go to pineapple support dot Oregon, really give very generously because the work that Dr.

Monique and the other therapists do at pineapple support is just so, so important. So, Dr. Monique, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (43m 9s): Thank you again for having me.

Speaker 1 (43m 11s): It was a pleasure. My broker tip today is part three of how to buy a website. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you’ve either reached the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site. The broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years. That’s up to date. If it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, get a username and password so that you can review the content.

Ask how often the site is updated, get some history on the site. How long has it been in business? The story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content and how much of it as current technologies find out if all the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller. If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the content is on find out how much the content costs to produce and what the current cost of production is.

Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the owner, do they do the shooting themselves or do they hire someone to do it? And if there’s an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what’s the retention rate on the site and find out if they do advertising for the site and where they get their traffic ask for Google analytics access. So you can see where the traffic comes from.

This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. Then if everything looks good to you and you want the site, it’s time to make an offer. Only you can decide what the site is worth to you. If you’re working with a broker such as, oh, I don’t know, adult site broker, of course your broker can help you to determine the value of the site. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week, we’ll be speaking with porn actress, Seca black. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Dr. Monique. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Ivan of AltErotic.

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The business is doing 273,000 in monthly revenue and 192,000 in profit revenue grew 34% last month over the previous month and is growing every single month. If you want to grow your only fans account, you pretty much need the traffic from these sites. They receive nearly 10 million visitors a month and drive nearly 5 million high converting clicks to only fans profiles monthly. They have a top notch SEO contractor who has gotten these sites to the top of all only fans search terms.

All contractors are available to stay on for the new owner. The company gives you everything. You need to keep the portfolio of sites growing with minimal time and effort. A lot has already been invested in marketing. Most of which will not need to be repeated. It’s a cash machine growing like a rocket ship. There’s nothing else out there like it only $6.2 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Ivan from alt orotic Ivan.

Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 29s): Thank you. I love to share stories and I can’t wait to get into this

Speaker 1 (2m 34s): Absolutely including one we’d discussed before, but we’ll get into that in a bit. Now, while Ivan was born in, Russia came to the United States in 1979 with his parents during the cold war, his travels took him and his family through Austria and Italy, where they live for months. Living above a whorehouse in Austria was a precursor to Ivan’s award-winning adult filmmaking career. His love for filmmaking grew this post high school education. As he spent five years in three colleges, including a bachelor’s degree in cinematography, upon graduating from the world, renowned Brooks Institute of photography, I’ve earned the highly prestigious president’s award.

Only the 51st student to get that honor in the schools. 50 year history in years of creating independent horror films and documentaries, I haven’t collected over two dozen filmmaking awards. He then jumped into the adult movie, making ABN called him the horror porn Maestro with his witty Texas asshole massacre and Dawn of the head self-entitled series of movies called Ivan’s slut. Arama Ivan’s reputation for hard work and energy and dedication on professional set environments landed him the hardest working director in porn trophy and the label as the nicest guy and adult is eccentric fashion style.

That industry events have gotten a mainstream attention as his outfits were in life and cosmopolitan. Ivan has over 100 AVN award nominations. He’s one web director of the year and followed that up with back-to-back wins for the same honor at the XR CEO awards, his unique style of storytelling follows original self written scripts for multi award nominated and winning series like Viking girls gone, horny card checkers, sexploitation ink motel, whole hunters, and his current inked exploitation of Misha Montana that is being re edited for a mainstream documentary release.

I mean, that’s quite a, quite a resume and all the time we have today. So thank you very much. Okay. So you were born in Russia, like my grandparents on both sides. Talk a little bit about your upbringing.

Speaker 2 (4m 51s): Oh, wow. It’s so interesting because just that culture shock of, you know, living in Russia and then coming out here in Russia, you know, it’s like first eight years of my life, I finished first grade and I actually was learning English in first grade in Russia. Second grade I started and I had to learn Ukrainian, which I hated it was to me. It was like broken Russian and I didn’t want to learn it. So it was one of those interesting things. One day when my dad comes home and he goes, we have been given the right to leave Russia.

And I was thrilled. I was thrilled because I wanted to go to America and I was thrilled. I didn’t have to learn Ukrainian anymore. So there were two reasons I was super happy and in Russia was, it was crazy because I saw color television. Only once I had a banana. Only once I remember bread lines. I do remember those was actually a thing is same with meat lines and people would fight over who’s in line. It was, it was definitely an interesting place.

You know, the funny thing is living in Russia and going to a school out there, you get that whole propaganda of like, you know, America’s evil and the American people are evil. You should be afraid of America. And then I come here and it’s reversed oppression. People are evil and the Russia’s evil. So it was this propaganda from both directions. And you’re just wondering, like, it’s just the, government’s playing people against each other. And when I was in Russia, I remember them even telling us that on the streets of America, the trees arriving real they’re plastic.

I remember this as a child and you know, coming here now, isn’t that crazy? Like, but now, you know, it was however many 40 years later, I do see lawns that have plastic grass on it. So I guess Russia kind of,

Speaker 1 (6m 41s): So I guess they weren’t completely completely off. Have you been back to visit by the way?

Speaker 2 (6m 46s): I’ve always wanted to never had the opportunity. My parents and I became citizens, I think about six or seven years ago. It was just so busy. We never became citizens. Not because we didn’t want to, just something never happened. And I would love to, We don’t have much. Yeah, thank you. It was, you know, something, it was, it was one of the highlights of my life because being at the LA convention center with it was thousands of people and everybody’s standing there with this giant American flag and everybody’s got their hand up and doing the pledge of allegiance and being sworn in and everybody’s crying.

And it was a really emotional moment because especially with United States, there are so many different cultures and so many people from all around the world that come here for that opportunity to see all these people from all parts of the world, just there together in an API that finally are going to be American citizens. It’s very impactful, you know, because it’s not just like one color, one race, one religion, it’s everybody. It was like 5,000 people in the whole place.

It was

Speaker 1 (7m 49s): A melting pot.

Speaker 2 (7m 51s): Oh my goodness. Yes, it was, yes. It was

Speaker 1 (7m 56s): Americans knock the country. And I, I do it, my share as well, trust me, but when it comes right down to it, okay. If they, if they search deep down, you know, they appreciated compared to whatever the alternative is,

Speaker 2 (8m 13s): You know, being an immigrant and seeing what my parents went through and then seeing what my, the rest of my relatives went through coming here. It bothers me when Americans who’ve never traveled outside of the United States shit on this country because in my, and I always come back with travel outside the borders besides Canada. And then you tell me where it’s better to live. I’m sorry, go ahead. Try. There’s not a seven 11 on every corner in every, in every country, most countries you’re struggling, you’re struggling for water for fresh water for everything else.

So whatever issues are here and there are plenty of issues here. It’s still land of opportunity. You know, when you see people like Birdman and little John Hort, basically billionaires ago, this country, you can become a billionaire, you know, being a mouth breather, I’m sorry. You know, you have that opportunity. So in other countries, it doesn’t matter what you do. You will never get that opportunities. Oh,

Speaker 1 (9m 10s): I’ll just, I’ll just say one thing. Cardi B

Speaker 2 (9m 14s): W one, 1000000%. Herky is probably 1000000000%. And you know, and this is why you have immigrants that will risk life, limb, families, everything, to come here because of that opportunity. And you’re not seeing people leaving this country and risking everything to go to somewhere else. They’re not because the reality is what we have here is amazing. You know, like just to watch my parents, you know, we come here, we travel for, was it four and a half, five months to get here.

And then they spend a year in night school to learn this language. Right. I, it’s hard for me to sit sometimes and listen to people bashing. I’ve actually, I had a deep conversation with a coworker last year, who she was very adamant about. You know, when Trump called, I forget which Haiti or something, he called it a shithole. And she’s all, he calls 80 a shithole. This country’s a shithole ago, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, slow down, maybe as a president, he shouldn’t be saying

Speaker 1 (10m 18s): These things.

Speaker 2 (10m 20s): I’m gonna like, come on, I’ll go at the end of the day. Yeah. As a president, 100%. He shouldn’t say that, but let’s, let’s be realistic. This country is not a shithole because if you really think this country is a shithole compared to Haiti, then move to Haiti and then literally call me the next day, ask me to come asking me to come back. So yes, president should have be talking like this, but a common person on the street.

Speaker 1 (10m 42s): One does not, fortunately

Speaker 2 (10m 45s): The government doesn’t say anything. Right. I guess that’s the way it looks.

Speaker 1 (10m 48s): Yeah. He doesn’t. He certainly, he certainly doesn’t say things like that. Thank goodness.

Speaker 2 (10m 53s): Not at all. And that’s, to me, to me, it’s like, and I always tell people go before you really, really, really bash on the United States, go talk to some immigrants, go talk to some older people, you know, because, because knowledge is everything and, and life experiences are.

Speaker 1 (11m 8s): Yeah. And knowledge is everything. And there’s a lot of people in the U S who have little or none I’m afraid.

Speaker 2 (11m 16s): Right. And that’s yes. What’d you take it for granted because it’s just so easily comes to you and yeah. I mean, this country 100%, there are issues here. Yeah. But I wouldn’t change this, the place I live for anything, maybe Canada, I was in Canada once I was like, wow, everybody’s very, very polite and apologetic,

Speaker 1 (11m 37s): Lovely place. Yeah. As long as your spot and most of Canada’s really,

Speaker 2 (11m 45s): Especially, there’s some craziness going on right now. I just saw, I just saw these, these videos. I’m like, whoa. Wow. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 (11m 53s): As we record this on February 2nd in the summer, when it runs, people will go. Huh? What? Okay, so, so what was your youth like with all the moving round the world on the way to the states?

Speaker 2 (12m 7s): It was, again, it is an insane culture shock because the things I remember, I remember being at the border, leaving Russia and having all this KGB agents basically steal whatever you have. So a lot of people would swallow their jewelry, hide it. We were told, bring bribe bribes for the, for the agents, whether it’s, whether it’s money or vodka, typically for Waka was really weird. But, but the stereotype is true.

I, my grandfather gave me 300 rubles, which is Russian money. And they, they took that from me. It was, it was, it was insane to see that. And then, you know, it’s like we crossed the border and all these immigrants cross the border. And then you sleep at the train station for a day until you get on the train in the morning to go to, I think it was like a chest Slovakia and then Poland, and you just kind of make your way all the way across. And then the first supermarket we ever saw was in Austria. So we walk into the supermarket and I shit, you not, it was, it was like that sound, oh, that’s literally what was going through all our heads.

We just stood there with their jaws drop. You, walk into the supermarket after leaving Russia. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13m 21s): After lines, after breadlines sure

Speaker 2 (13m 24s): I forgot her bread lines. And I remembered it. The funny thing is I actually remember the first thing that was bought for me at the store. My parents bought me a Cowboys and Indians set a little, you know, they’re like, they’re just plastic. It was just like plastic molds of Cowboys and Indians. And, and the cop was, had a little wagon. I was just still had that stuff. I still have some of the toys, but most of them were gone, but it was, it was amazing just because, yeah, just the difference in, in, in, in culture and everything that’s available to you just right there, tip of your fingers.

And then we lived in this brick building for a month and a half in Austria and on the top floor. And I was just, you know, cute little Russian kid with big cheeks. And so we would walk down to go to the store or leave or whatever. And there were always be women in there. And they were always like dressed in bikinis or whatever else. And they would always like pinch my cheeks and I would see their posters outside in the outside of the building. I always wondered like, what is going on here? Like yeah. You know, I have a child, I dunno, Russian child at that later in life, my parents tell me we lived above a whorehouse and I’m like, wow, that’s interesting.

How

Speaker 1 (14m 31s): Old were you? How old were you when they told you this?

Speaker 2 (14m 33s): Oh, gosh, I had to be like in my twenties because I don’t think they did because my past is still like very, you know, like old, old school Russian. So of course they didn’t want to share stuff like that. But then I think I might’ve asked them one day. It was like, what was that building? And I was just like above a whorehouse or, you know, red light district. And I’m like, wow, okay. That sense. I’ve lived in a whorehouse and I work at the whorehouse basically. And then we lived in Italy for three months. I got to see Rome. And as a child, you really don’t appreciate it.

You know, obviously because you’re a child. The only thing I knew about Rome was I saw Sparta was partly because yeah, Spartacus in Russia in the theater. So I had a little bit of like, you know, knowledge of, of, of what that was all about, but I wish I would go back there as an adult just to appreciate the massive beauty of the architecture and everything else.

Speaker 1 (15m 26s): Italy’s fricking awesome. We spent some time up in the wine country and the north places, just so we want to go, we wanted to go back last year, but you know what happened? So what can I, what can I say?

Speaker 2 (15m 40s): And it was there for three months. And the funny thing is, as a child, my parents would eat pizza. And as a child, I didn’t know what it was. I thought it was like raw meat. I wouldn’t touch pizza until I was in the United States that I bit into one. And you know, and then again, it was like, <inaudible> On my life, you know? But yeah, the funny thing is like us living in the whorehouse when I was eight and a half, when I was 14, I was in Playboy magazine and actually have the issue.

Our, our friend’s mom, she was an editor or something of Playboy. And they needed for kids to play basketball with one of the Playboy playmates. I think her name was Kathy Smith or something like that. And they took pictures of us playing basketball with her because in the article, it was about how she goes to the local rec center to play basketball with the kids. And then the next picture is like her at the studio recording her music and things like that, which was all bullshit. But we got paid 25 bucks for three hours to basically go through puberty.

It was in 1984. We were all like 13 or 14 years old

Speaker 1 (16m 48s): And amazing.

Speaker 2 (16m 48s): Yeah. You know, it’s like, you get to hang out and play basketball to play with playmate. And every time she bent down and she was wearing a tank top, oh, I’ll tell you what, man. You know, it’s just like, just as a child, especially back then, you know, this is before internet, before you had magazines that you could like steal from your parents to look at porn. This was like, literally like, oh my God, I’m going through puberty right now. And my pants were all wet. You know, it was

Speaker 1 (17m 11s): Fucking

Speaker 2 (17m 13s): Insane. You know,

Speaker 1 (17m 14s): I had to be completely insane

Speaker 2 (17m 18s): Spec material for weeks.

Speaker 1 (17m 23s): So talk about the culture shock when you got to the us.

Speaker 2 (17m 28s): Oh my goodness. That was the hardest part about coming in 1979 to the United States was the cold war because you’re Russian and you barely know the language and kids pick on you, you know, <inaudible>

Speaker 1 (17m 46s): Me and I was an American, so

Speaker 2 (17m 48s): Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, cooling’s been, yeah, exactly. And then the beauty of it was, was like learning all these amazing things, you know, in Russia, we had only two channels. We only had cartoons, I think on weekends here. Oh my God, I Tom. And Jerry all day. Oh my gosh, Tom and Jerry. I remember, I remember everything I watched. I watched Tom and Jerry then chips that emergency Five-O. That was my daily routine without, with one or two hot dogs and a tomato for some reason, rather than catch up.

But just to go through, gosh, the D th the, the vastest what America is and resources that we had. We never had an RO card in Russia. We come here, my, you know, my dad gets a car, so now we’re in the car, things like that. So

Speaker 1 (18m 39s): Cool. After being in Russia.

Speaker 2 (18m 41s): Oh my gosh. You know, and, and, and just all the channels, I mean, even back then, there was only like what, like channel two to four, there’s only maybe like seven or eight channels, because there was no cable back then that was still for more than two channels. Yeah. And cartoons all day, that was in Russia. We had only one cartoon and it was called <inaudible> and it was, it was a Wolf that was smoking and wearing an Adidas, of course, Adidas jumpsuit. And, and his whole point is to catch this rabbit, like basically like a Wiley Roadrunner, Wiley coyote, very like politically incorrect.

You know, the, the Wolf is aren’t going to smoking a cigarette, you know, the whole time. And, and, and the, you know, and, and then dresses as a, as a, he’s basically like a cross-dresser and it’s, I’m just trying and try to get to, to the travel areas, but it’s Russia, you know, and especially back then, so being here and going to school, the good part about United States is that when you come to this country, you get, especially in LA, you go, you stay at a class called ESL, which is English as a second language.

So now you’re in a class with a bunch of kids from other countries and some kids from your country. And each teacher has an assistant that speaks your language, which was really nice. But the funniest thing is, so first day of class, I’m sitting there and the teacher’s doing roll call. And she says, she says my full Russian name that I didn’t even realize that was my full name. She says, she says, Vyacheslav, and I’m sitting there, everybody’s sitting around. I’m not answering because I, my real, I know my name is Slava.

I’ve been as my director name. And, and then she says my last name, and everybody laughs at my name. Now I’m mortified. I’m this Russian kid, little kid, nine years old, whatever. I was nine years old, I went home and cried. I yelled at my parents were calling me. Vyacheslav what kind of name is that? You know, I’m already called Spiderman because our last name is cider man. So, so we’re getting that now, VHS laugh. And then, you know, years later, when the word biatch comes around, I became Biatchi slob.

You know? So, you know, it was just a lot of Spider-Man ha You know, years later, when you grow up, you’re like, that’s a fucking cool name, because that’s different than John Smith. That was Steve or whatever, you know, this is it’s

Speaker 1 (20m 60s): Different than when you put at the time. It didn’t seem too cool. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (21m 3s): No, not at all. You know, it’s like, even when I got in porn, I, I didn’t want to use my real name. And then years later I’m like, God, dang it. I should’ve just used my real name and it would have been way cooler, but

Speaker 1 (21m 15s): That’s funny. So talk about, so you, when you were living above a whorehouse as a kid, you had no idea it was a whorehouse.

Speaker 2 (21m 24s): Nah, I just know. I just saw a lot of pretty girls, at least, I assume they’re pretty, you know, it was a child I’m sure. In bikini, it’s more like scantily clad women just walking around with, you know, I didn’t see anybody naked as far as I remember. I don’t think anybody would, but, but I did, but there were, yeah, there were half naked. They were just little bikinis or lingerie, whatever else. Sure. No idea. But I couldn’t get down those stairs without somebody pinching my cheeks or giving me a hug like that. I remember.

Speaker 1 (21m 53s): Sure, sure. Absolutely. And you never asked your folks then what? All that was? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21m 58s): Oh no. I was just deer in headlights, child and headlights.

Speaker 1 (22m 1s): That’s hilarious.

Speaker 2 (22m 2s): Literally headlights.

Speaker 1 (22m 4s): Yeah. That’s that’s that’s fricking hilarious. So, oh, I know we were talking before the podcast about a mutual friend, Nick Manning. You had a good story about,

Speaker 2 (22m 17s): Yeah. I love Nick manic, Nick cave, vetting. When he had his long hair, he used to call himself cave Manning. I love Nick. So one day we’re shooting. So, so Nick is notorious for breaking furniture and he’s prides himself on breaking friendship, which is like crazy to me because you know, his shoot, his house was a shoot house and it was literally like, it would, his furniture would be gone like we, so we go to shoot to shoot at his house one day, I’m going to buy his backyard. And his backyard is just filled with broken furniture, chairs, little wooden tables, things like that.

So we’re shooting the scene with him and he’s got this girl on the table and he’s kind of like, it’s not an open over, but, but he’s like on his tippy-toes. So, so, so he’s, I think she was maybe in doggy. So I get underneath him to get there underneath shot. And it was like a really cool shot. So I’m shooting and I feel something rubbing a top of my head and I’m just like, cause I had my hat off. I always wear my hat, but I have my hat off. And I’m just like, what is that? Right. I think you

Speaker 1 (23m 20s): Should’ve worn your hat

Speaker 2 (23m 22s): 100%. Yeah. A body condom. So, so, so I’m like, what is that? But I can’t see because I’m like looking at the shot and I look over at the, at my friend who was producing the scene and he is holding his mouth shut. Cause he keeping from laughing. I’m just like, what is happening here? Right. And then when we were done, I’m like, what, what, what was, what was that? And he’s like, that was Nick’s Nick’s saggy balls were like, like rubbing on your, on your head the whole time. I’m like, oh man, seriously by then, what are you going to do?

Right. It’s just, it’s just part of the job.

Speaker 1 (23m 58s): That’s really fucked up. That’s really, that’s really fucking funny.

Speaker 2 (24m 2s): Yes. But with Nick, every scene with Nick was something interesting. One day we pulled up to his house and he was lived on top of this hill, had this house on top of the hill, in the valley and he’s standing there butt naked, butt naked, just looking at the sun, like no sunglasses staring at the sun. And I walk up to him like, Nick, what are you doing? And he goes, I’m staring at the sun with my third eye. I go, excuse me, what? And he goes, yeah, I’m staring at the sun with my third eye.

And then he goes and tells me this whole story about third eyes and spirituality and everything else. And, and I’m like, wow. Okay. Well then I just went back to like, you know, setting up my shots and everything else. And with Nick, it was always like, you know, like with Nick was funny because with Nick you’d get like during the scene, he would say the weirdest shit, right? Like the weirdest, dumbest shit,

Speaker 1 (24m 53s): Suck

Speaker 2 (24m 54s): My Dick. You dirty cut you dirty. Or like, like he was so into it. Cause he was Nick cave Manning. And then the scenes over his Wilco’s hose, that everything good, you know? And then he starts quoting the basketball and you’re like, you just called her dirty whore. And now you’re according to the Bible, like five minutes later. Okay. No problem. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25m 12s): And then whatever that, and whatever that saying was, would end up on a t-shirt.

Speaker 2 (25m 16s): Yes. You know, cause he had, he had dropping loads of copywritten. That was trademark. That was his, and it was a hot tub time machine actually used it. And he sued them in one as far as I remember,

Speaker 1 (25m 29s): Because

Speaker 2 (25m 29s): They used that in the movie and cause he, at one point my company Poobah that I call him with two other guys. We were doing his website and I remember that happening. And I think he actually got a Jaguar out of it. As far as I remember, I could be wrong. But I remember that was, that was the story. He either got a Jaguar, some, some sort of car, but he always came on set with a robe that said Manning, which was the best part. Like he pulled up in his JAG, convertible JAG in the robe and he gets out and he’s like Rick flair, walking on, set with Manning on this road.

Speaker 1 (26m 1s): I’m reading, I’m reading the reading, dropping loads now. And I’m about three quarters through it. And if you haven’t read it, oh you need to lift it so you don’t need to read it. You’ve lived it. So it’s all in there.

Speaker 2 (26m 16s): She just got a text from him like a few weeks ago. Every time he changes his number, he just texted me Nick manicure.

Speaker 1 (26m 22s): I’m like,

Speaker 2 (26m 23s): Okay, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (26m 25s): I love it. Now I got, I got two numbers for him, so,

Speaker 2 (26m 29s): Oh, I got a one quick, funny story about him. So we were shooting, I was shooting a serious call, hit me with your best squirt. So you drop

Speaker 1 (26m 37s): For a seat.

Speaker 2 (26m 38s): Oh, hit me with your Beth’s best squirt, like hit me with your best shot, but hit me with your best squared. We actually had Tom. It was Tom by and pictures. Tom brown actually brought a whole song that was like, hit me with your best shot. But it was sent me with your best squirt. And it was Nick Manning and this girl and you know, you’re booking girls that squirt. So, and they’re supposed to score. And if you get fake, it drink a lot of water and fake it. Let’s just get through this. So this girl tells us I can squirt. Okay. So we’re shooting in the most uncomfortable spot in this tiny bathroom in LA AC is off.

It’s 120 degrees inside. And she’s like on the Le on the edge of this bathtub and, and Nick is just pounding, just trying to get her to squirt and he’s drenched. I’m drenched, she’s drenched. And then I stopped seeing scene go, Hey, can you squirt, can you, she goes, well, only if he fucks me, right? <inaudible> no, no, no, no. This is not like called. Oh maybe if I squirt website or I mean DVD, this has hit me with your best squirt I go, can you go drink some water and just fake it?

Just piss please. Okay. So I go to Nick because Nick doesn’t take, hit me with a, you know, I’m dropping loads as a serious thing, then he thinks it’s funny. Right? So I asked him to go, okay, what if this girl, when she’s about to squirt, she says, hit me. You go, you say to her, hit me with your best squirt. And she says, dropping squirts, dropping squirts. So we get to that point and she didn’t drink enough water. I’ll just leave it at that. And so we’re shooting and I’m like, okay, okay.

She’s when Susan, she says dropping squirts, she’s going to go. And she yells a drop-in squirts. And the smell in that bathroom was that an outhouse at like a, at a baseball game. You know, it was horrendous. I was like, this room is now covered in sweat covered in piss. And it smells like sweat and piss mixed together. It was <inaudible>. So she dropped not squirts on us. She dropped piss on us all over us.

Speaker 1 (28m 42s): Ah, yes, nobody, nobody said it was a sanitary business. So how did you end up getting in the, getting into the adult industry in the first place?

Speaker 2 (28m 51s): It’s interesting because I went to three, three film schools and I got a bachelor’s degree in cinematography. I was working on the TV show called the X show as a video utility guy, basically holding the camera guys cable. And I was a big wrestling fan and there was a wrestling, a local wrestling show called XBW. They were doing their king of the death match tournament. I didn’t know what that was. I’ve never been to a death match. The only thing I knew about death matches a celebrity death match on MTV. So I take my 15 year old brother to this thing.

And what we saw was basically murdered without somebody dying. I it’s Wrestling, death matches are brutal. It’s, you know, these barbwire glass thumbtacks, whatever they can on each other. It’s still wrestling. That’s predetermined, who’s going to win. But everything from the beginning to who’s going to win all hell breaks loose, and it’s a tournament. So it’s eight guys and it’s like a round Robin, you know? And like, and then eventually I’m one winner. So I’ll go back to the TV show. And one of the hosts was a wrestling fan.

So I tell them all about it. And it’ll take me to the next one to the next show. So I take them to the next show and we get to go backstage. At least he does. And he meets the general manager of this wrestling company and the owner who was Rob black. And Rob black is a pornographer who used to do, I used to have a website called a company called extreme associates. So you on both, both but on XBW, which is extreme pro wrestling and extreme associates, which was the porn company. So they eventually Rob and, and his wife at the time, Lizzie Borden would come on the TV show and do little segments.

So I became somewhat friendly with them, same with my brother. So my brother started doing their, their website, their, their wrestling website. And I would shoot like a little ringside sta ringside stuff for them here and there just like more creative. I wasn’t the main camera guy. I just shooting like creative angles that they would cut music videos with. And when brother turned 18, he started working for them, doing the adult stuff, doing editing for the adult stuff. Then I came on board, he showed them my real, my mainstream real.

And they brought me in to shoot behind the scenes for evolution erotica, which was basically, it was, it was the sister company. There were basically one company, just two different names. Tom Byron owned evolution, Radhika, Rob black called extreme associates. And I brought, was brought into she’d be on the scenes. And I shot super cool behind the scenes where I did more of like MTV style. I did like little, little animated graphics and cutouts of the girls and flying around and things like that down to the reviewers of the movies, we’re doing a separate section to review my behind the scenes and it would get special different ratings for him because I was all into it.

Like I was a filmmaker. I had a bachelor’s degree in cinematography. I, I, you know, I, I want to be a filmmaker. So now this was my opportunity to be super creative and do some really weird fun stuff. And with extreme associates, you know, to me, that was creatively, the best job I’ve ever had because black bisque has said, do whatever you want, write three rules. And those three rules I stuck with and, and two of them were obscene. And one of them was, don’t make fun of Jews because they own the industry. And I’m like, I got it. I understand.

I do. I agree with them

Speaker 3 (32m 16s): Alone.

Speaker 2 (32m 18s): You know? So, so I was like, whatever, like, I’m fine with whatever, you know? And so he gave me, him and Tom Barton gave me my first opportunity and I was just, just a PA. And we had a scene sky. And one day I was on set with a guy that just came back to directing porn. And let me tell you the, he didn’t know what he was doing. And I was so upset watching him direct in what he did in a whole horrible. He was a nice guy, amazingly nice guy. But the quality of his work was atrocious.

So I was driving home one day after said, and I called the general manager, Kevin and I, I told him, I go, you know, I’ll shoot circles around people like him. I’m sorry. I know how to light. I know how to white balance a camera. I know how to hold a steady shot. I know how to tell a story with lighting camera angles and everything else. So one day, you know, sometimes it’s one of those things where when you finally put on the spot, you freak out and this is what happened with me. One day, I get a call from Kevin and he goes, Tommy sick today.

You’re going to shoot the scene. And I panicked. I’m like, oh my God. Oh my God. And we got it. How do you do that? Because you know, when you’re new to this, especially back then when, when it wasn’t like now everybody and their mother shoots porn on their cell phone and everything’s fine. Back then, it’s a legit production with real location. I had a photographer with me, a talent that was getting paid really good money. And on the way to set I’m like maybe I should drive my car into a tree. So we don’t have to do the shoot. So this way I’m going to, excuse me, I’m not going to go shoot.

I’m just, I was so paranoid. And so, and freaking out, luckily we went to set and both performers I’ve worked with before and they saw how nervous I was and there they go. We got you, man, whatever you need, we got you. And it turned out great. I’ve never seen a girl, a stuffer pussy with patties before. And this girl did it during the tease. And I was like, whoa. I was like, I wasn’t shocked what, what is going on here? And if they’re not great. And then, and then it just kind of snowballed from there where they, they started watching my stuff in the, in, I shot probably about a dozen bonus scenes for DVDs because this is what pornography was making real money.

So you would have a DVD or back then VHS as well. And you would have five, five, see five or six scenes on the, on the VHS. But then for the DVD you have a bonus scene. Literally companies would spend $4,000. If not more to shoot a bonus scene for the DVD. Now these are full budgets for movies back then. Yeah. Here’s four grand, go shoot a bonus scene. So I shot about 10 to 12 bonus scenes for DVDs and they loved what I was doing. And they were like, just go do whatever the hell you want.

So I started shooting really unique stuff. I did Texas asshole massacre that put me on the map. As a director, I got offers from wicked pictures to direct to them. Very, very loyal who I worked for. And I turned them down because I don’t care if I, to me, I am so about the art of it. That money is, yeah, you have to pay your bills, but money’s never been the reason for me to take a job. It’s always been about the creative process and people I work with.

And I, you know, I’ll be honest with you sitting in the conference room, filled with AVN trophies and posters and amazing box covers and being told your movie won’t beat ours. Even yours is better because our budgets a hundred grand or whatever it was. And yours was $8,000 and sorry, but you won’t win. If you want to start winning awards, you got to come here and you know what, that didn’t inspire me to want to go work for them. I was like, fuck you. I don’t want to work for you. Are you kidding me?

Like, I don’t care about the fucking awards. I care about my creative outlet. I care about the people I work with. Yeah. Working for extreme associates. Sometimes you’re like, oh my goodness. Okay. Another day like this, but creatively. And the people I work with, I, I loved, loved that job. And Texas last semester, did you know? It put me on the map is like avian called me the horror poor Maestro. They also said my movies were, my editing was MTV style. And I’m like, this is cool. This is like, yeah, 18, 19 years ago.

And to me, that meant a lot because I’m shooting a no budget. I’m not shooting huge name talent. And we have all these pitfalls of like, you know, like extreme associates had a really bum rap. You know, they really did in the sense where like everybody in their mother thought that we were, you know, molesting people on set, which never happened. It was everybody that came to set. We shot. Yeah. We shot rougher stuff, energetic stuff. But everyone that came in, we were like, here’s what we shoot. We would put the VHS tape in and we’ll show it to them.

Do you want to shoot this? Are you comfortable shooting this? If they said, yes, cool. Let’s go. And then you could stop anytime, especially with my productions. And if you’re not happy, you can leave. Like that’s, you know, so, and I, and I loved working there. I, I worked with Marg. Zane was one of the directors and performance there. Chris justice was there. Lizzie border’s director, Rob black was direct and Tom pirate. It was like a family of people that were the stepchildren of the industry. Rightfully so for some, some of the things they did before I got there, you know, like throwing, I suppose, I guess it through like a smoke bomb in AB offices or something like that.

Somebody told me I wasn’t there for that. But, and then we had Jean Ross would come to set all the time and do onset pieces for adult FYI. It was like, it w it literally was a family. It was a gross family in many ways, because, you know, there was just so much that was, you know, like, depending on what room, you know, you walk in this room, oh, there’s a prolapse asshole. Oh, you walk in this room. There’s like boogers on the door. You know, you walk in this room and there’s something else going on, but it was wonderful. You know, like, yeah, you, we’re not, none of us were getting rich. And this was when Rob was fighting as obscenity charges, you know?

So there was a lot going on. And then we had coffee, Ron that came in and he shot haul some of the stuff he was shooting. We were like, okay, this is like insanity. But he was such a nice guy. He was always like, it was almost like too nice for the girls. We were like, dude, you shooting really rough shit. And you’re being way too. Like, you know, which is good, which is great. But yeah, it was one of those things where like, and that’s why I think we got a bum rap because when people saw was being shot and what, and Rob, you know, Rob is big mouth, you know, like Rob was like, fuck you and everything else running around middle fingers in the air.

And I learned a lot from him. I learned a lot of good and I learned a lot of bad. And, and I learned a lot from Tom Byron, who one day him and I sat on set and, and I asked him to go hotter, DVD sales work, or movies, sales work. And he broke it down for me. And he straight up said, he goes, look, what you do is with every movie, you make sure that the customer, when he rents the movie, he wants to keep it. So he’ll keep it. He’ll pay the P pay the store a little extra to hold onto it. Now the store has to reorder it or better yet.

What if that person goes to the store and loves the box, cover loves what’s on the back or loves the director, the growth in it buys it instantly. Now rebuild. Now you have to, now we have to restart. So they buy more product. So this is how you sell your product. So when w when Tom Byron told me this in my head, it sparked like every movie I need to do, I need to do something outside the box. And that’s what I started doing. I did a series called euthanasia where all the Asian girls were like, even though euthanasia means killing animals, ours was different.

When they told me you’re going to do a series with Asian girls. And I’m like, cool. They’re like, this is gonna be called euthanasia. I’m like, wait, what? Killing these girls are. W I’m just confused. What’s happening here? No, no, no. They’re younger girls, but they’re Asian girls. So I’m like, cool. I got it. So I started putting like really insane, like anime style makeup on them. And the first one I did, I did this game on a DVD called guests. The cameltoe. I took pictures of all the grilled camel toes. And there was like a game as a bonus. Where if you guess all the camel toes, you get a bonus scene. You know, like things like that, where I thought was super unique.

For instance, like Texas asshole massacre, the reason it got so big was because the movie, Texas chainsaw massacre, the final scene is where Leatherface chases this Grove with, with a chain saw through the woods. And then she jumps in the car and in this truck and takes off. And he does this dance with a, it was called the, like the chainsaw dance, where he’s like, waving it around. He’s like screaming. So at the end of Texas asshole massacre, I did the same thing. I had my ex Cammy Andrews with a three-foot dildo, chasing JIA Poloma through the woods.

We, we rented this location, like told backwards redneck place. We shut all this, like the chasing, the full chasing through these words, I, we actually broke one of the cameras cause they had one of these tiny little cameras that had a mini DV tape in there. And we had G holding it in front of her face as she was running. And all the shock from running broke the counter, but the tape looks amazing. So I did this scene. And then in fact, I made Cammie watch the insane of Texas chainsaw massacre, the chasing and the whole dance.

So she could recreate it with instead of a chainsaw, big three dildo. So we do this in chasing. And to me, I’m like, this is, this is it. This is, this is my masterpiece. You know? And, and the coolest thing was years later, I run into Sage Stallone at a film festival here in Hollywood service, Sloan son. And he comes up to me and he goes, you’re driving, right? I go, yup. And he goes, I fucking love Texas hassle massacre. In fact, I own it. And I’m going to stop what services don’t son owns my movie.

And then there’s a girl named I there’s two girls in the industry who are fans of the sport. You want owns it on VHS. And the other one did a college thesis on Texas Astro masculine and your college

Speaker 1 (42m 28s): Funny.

Speaker 2 (42m 29s): So this movie like, Yes, isn’t that crazy. And then some big YouTuber, a few years back headed on this top 10 craziest and funniest, like porn titles. So it’s got legs of its own. We’re trying with my fiance. Meesha, we’re trying to figure out how to get rights to it. So we could do part two and have her as the lead as, as the daughter of my ex Cammie, because it was 20 years ago and it would make it almost like, you know, it would line up time-wise.

So we’re trying to figure out how to do Texas hassle massacre too. And that, that would be like, my they’re not going to retire or a meteor could land on my head and I’ll be completely fine. Life’s done. I’m happy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43m 13s): That’s amazing. So, so how did you get into the production of horror films?

Speaker 2 (43m 19s): When I was going to film school, my one of my first classes, one of my classmates, her boyfriend at the time was doing a horror film called the crier. And one of our instructors at the school was the director of it. So I, I was just a crew guy. I was brand new to, to, to film school. I was brand new to filmmaking and, but I loved it. I was one of those people that ran around with a cable and his shoulder, his escape was called bandit in the 75 pounds.

Each I would throw one of these shoulder and, and run around with it, you know, like setting it up and stuff like that. So I became really good friends with the producer. His name is John. And then I wound up doing one of my, one of my school projects was the effects artists on this movie, the crier whose guy Simon, we wanted to do a short piece on him for one of our classes where he does a whole step of, of sculpting a mask and then molding a face scoping mask and going through the whole process of it.

So we all became like buddies, the guy that was the, the play that eventually the witch who was the mold made out of his face. He, he, this guy, Jason, we all became like really tight. Those three guys. They grew up together in competence area. And they were doing horror movies as kids and editing them on VCR to VCR, huge, insane horror fans. So they got me hooked on horror movies. I wasn’t ready for that. I loved, you know, like nightmare on Elm street, a hell raiser, the Friday, the 13th, I was a huge hell raiser fan.

And they started showing me some really weird shit, like, like Asian horror. That’s like insane to this day. It’s insane from even from back then. And, and then we started doing horror movies. We did a movie called Y2K shutdown, detected, took us almost two and a half years. I was the co-director and cinematographer on there. It was on 16 millimeter film. And the movie was about the computer shutdown of Y2K. Cause remember when everybody’s like, oh my God, the clocks are going to turn over. It’s going to

Speaker 1 (45m 27s): Party. I remember that

Speaker 2 (45m 31s): Actually with our movies called Y2K, shut down detected, and it was a zombie movie. So we, it took us almost two and a half years to finish this movie. We finished that December 27th, 1999 on this damn movie, you know, and this movie, it exploded because back then this you’re talking about year 2000. This was before social media before really internet before really like you put stuff on DVD. I I’m very much about promotion. So what I did was I designed the box cover cause I do everything myself.

I light, I shoot, I do graphics, whatever else. So I designed the box cover for the movie. I made 50 copies of the movie and started sending it out to every magazine I could possibly send it to. Right. And then this is my pride and joy of my indie horror career. We wait, we had a booth at Fenn, Gloria magazines. We can have horrors. And I had all these envelopes that I had with, with a movie inside a little background about the movie and the filmmakers. It was myself, John and Trent. We were the three filmmakers on it and I would give it out to two big name actors or, or directors.

And I ended up giving a copy to John Landis who directed my favorite movie, ever American world from London. I, I love this, this, this, that, that, that right there to me is like the staple of what horror, horror movies and werewolf movies are and gave him a copy of this movie. And it’s just in the envelope thinking nothing of it about, I dunno, a few weeks later, I get an envelope back from him when he returned the movie with a, with a handwritten letter that says, thank you so much for letting us watch a movie.

We really, my, my business partner, I enjoyed it. So I’m like, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. So I sent him a letter back to this address and I asked for a quote for the, for our poster, for our box cover, whatever else. And I dunno, a few weeks after that, I get this of Alfred Hitchcock. And on the back it says in quotes, Y2K, and zombies, what could be better, Sean Landis? It was, I was like, I got goosebumps just thinking about this because it was so amazing that this man who’s a legendary director will take the time to watch the movie and then take the time to get a postcard hand, sign it and send it back to us.

So I still have it framed on my mantle here at the house. And then a few years later when American werewolf in London was coming on its 30 year anniversary, I think it was, he was at that. There’s a theater out here called the Grindhouse theater with now Quintin Tarantino owns and the show old films. So back then, John Landis was coming in to show a 35 millimeter print of American wealth in London. And I brought the postcard with me. So he stuck around and did a Q and a and I came up to him afterwards.

I give them, I hand them the postcard. He looks at it and flips it over. And he remembers me will remember the movie. And he goes, oh, I remember this movie. And he signed the, signed the postcard again and says John Landis again. And yeah, I have the postcard. It’s my pride and joy of filmmaking. And, and the movie eventually we sold it and it’s on DVD or it how small the world is the movie. The crier that I worked on when I first met John, when my first semester in film school, it, there was a low budget horror company called EDI cinema or alternative cinema.

They would release like low budget, horror movies. They released the crier, they changed the name to the demons. They leased a crier on DVD and they put our white shut detected movie as a bonus movie. So it was like this it’s. It was, it was amazing because again, I still have, you know, I have the DVD, it was the coolest thing that’s ever happened to us. We made in our two and a half years to put this movie together and shooting it on film and all the money we spent, they give us $250 that we were like, yes, we’re going to go to dinner and have a helmet.

Speaker 1 (49m 33s): There you go. There you go. Get a steak. You get a steak out of that one.

Speaker 2 (49m 38s): Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (49m 40s): What do you still want to do in this business that you haven’t done already?

Speaker 2 (49m 45s): Gosh, you know, to me, it’s so important to make sure that people in this industry are treated right. I’ve always been known as the guy who, and people always say that Ivan, doesn’t try to fuck the girls. And he doesn’t try to fuck the girls out of money. I’ve literally been with in 20 years, three girls in the industry, one and one I dated for 18 months, which was Cammy. My ex one was like, okay, you’re pursuing me way too much. And I’m still a guy and you know, whatever. And, and now my fiance, Misha, Montana is basically it. You know?

So to me, it’s always been about doing the right thing, making sure that women and men are treated with that plus respect on set because I always looked at it like this. If you treat someone with respect on set, especially doing these vulnerable things, because sex is still a vulnerable thing. It’s people opening themselves up for your camera. You know, literally they’re opening up for your camera. If you are polite, if you treat them with respect, they’ll give you so much more. I used to shoot first-timers when I was at anabolic, I shot a lot of first timers and a lot of girls would later come back to me and they’ll go, the, you spoiled me on your set because you were so nice and respectful and had me do only while I was comfortable doing a lot of girls gave me the first Dakota Brooks years ago, everything that she ever shot first, she did for me and I wasn’t paying her the best rate for it, but she trusted me and she appreciated that I was kind to her.

So to me, that’s important. And right now our pet project really is we did this movie called exploitation of Misha Montana, which is my fiance. It started off literally as we’re going to do a scene with her, which was she got, you know, the, the movies aliens with Sigourney Weaver. So the face hugger, the one that sits on the, on the people’s faces and impregnates her face with, with an alien, she had that tattooed on her pussy and we’ve recorded this for Alta robotic.

It was a five-hour session. It was in 2021. The pandemic was 2020. Was it 2021? When a pandemic was at its highest and alter robotic, I mean, an AVN didn’t have an award show. So what we did was we created our own AVN awards, red carpet. We invited a bunch of people. We had beautiful. We got the most amazing, honestly, better pictures than any avian red carpet. I’ll just tell you that because I got delighted. We got to shoot some really cool shit. And then we had a red carpet that led to a tattoo table that she laid on for five hours and got this alien tattooed on her pussy.

She cried through half of it. And then she did a blow bang that was nominated for best blow bank. So few weeks after that, she caught COVID and was bedridden for a month. Then she went to got vaccinated and had a stroke. Oh no, we got all of this, all this recorded. We have all this footage. I went to the next day after she was on the phone with me for two hours while she had a stroke driving down a mountain to the hospital. And so we have, because it will occur. And I, we had shared so much, we would record everything just for the hell of it, just for like a YouTube channel, whatever else.

Sure. And it just wound up where all these pieces started falling into this crazy, crazy pattern where she has a stroke. I go out there the next day. I gave her one of the most God priceless things that I have in Russia, when you are born to give you this, it’s like a metal or a coin. It’s like a Bitcoin has got Lennon on one side. And on the other side, they engrave your name. Well, I had this thing and I brought it to the hospital with her.

Wow. And I recorded the whole thing. The funny thing is we have her and I have this joke that my hallway pass. My hall pass is Brad Pitt because I fucking love Brad Pitt. This is what she would say. That’s where a hall pass. So I ha I got the helmet from Troy that he wore. It’s like, I have, it’s not like the metal one. It was like a softer material. But I put that on. I had flowers on my record, the whole thing, me walking through the hospital in this dress, like Brad Pitt from Troy to lighten up her mood.

And so I come in there and I’m recording and I give her this coin, everything, everything is recorded and everything goes on her DVD because two weeks after her stroke, first of all, four days later, I do this emotional interview with her, where half her face is frozen and she’s telling her story. And then a week and a half later, she comes to LA with a heart monitor attached to her chest and shoots this most elaborate scene I’ve ever shot. And it was nominated for best play gross CNET XPS.

Then we shot like two days later, did she had a heart surgery? We got all that on tape. She’s doing much better. She still has at night. And when she’s tired, she forgets things because brain damage from the stroke, her right hand loses strength sometimes. So physically, if you look at it, you’re like, oh, she’s fine. But there’s so much depression issues. A lot of things that still worried about possibly having another stroke, just going through the process of just remembering what she went through, you know, and, and she’s got a son who’s got cerebral palsy.

So she’s got a lot on her plate. She’s five years old and you know, so she’s take care of him. And then she’s got her family that she’s taking care of her mom or dad, her brother. So she’s got a lot on her plate. And, and we put this movie together, you know, she went and got her nipples tattooed. She got hearts that made out of barbed wire, tattooed on her nipples. And while doing a scene, then she got her tail tattooed for the alien pussy. She got her tail tattooed. It goes through like per butt crack, but upper butthole around her leg, all this stuff.

We have these, this amazing footage that we put together and wrapped around all this personal, emotional stuff. And we made this DVD that was nominated for best showcase at flesh bot awards ex-business and PBN. And honestly, I’m disappointed that neither exposor IBN gave her the best showcase, because if we’re going to talk about showcasing a human being and porn star, this is what this is about because my opinion, every year, there’s a showcase or every other showcase that what is, what’s the common denominator it’s fucking on a high budget.

That’s what that is. You have a big name, girl, you get big name, male talent, or big name, other female talent, great location. How has that standing out from any other big name, a big budget showcase. It does not. This, this is human piece. And to me, that was the part that was like, it was disappointing, was like, what? But I’ve warned her. I said, look, I had over a hundred dominations before I won my first thing. Dominations mean way more than awards because you get nominations and merit of your work, the other stuff, it is what it is.

And

Speaker 1 (56m 42s): It’s very political and you, and you can’t take it personally.

Speaker 2 (56m 45s): Yeah. And that’s exactly it. And she’s so new. She’s only been for a year. So she’s just learning this. This is my 20th year. I’m like app. Then when on average, it’s fine. But what we were doing is we’ve been putting together this mainstream documentary for it. We have a sizzle reel that we cut that’s on Vimeo. That’s, that’s not for public consumption. It’s a private thing that we send it to people with passwords. Okay. I’ll, I’ll send it to you. Yes, for sure. Cause it’s got her son in there and she opened up, you know, like what, when I was editing her movie, the adult movie, she called me and she goes, I want to, because when, when I interviewed her four days after a stroke, we did a whole interview about her.

And then I said to her go, you know, we probably should talk about your son. We will not use it, but I want you to talk about what you were thinking when this is happening. And tell me about your son, because this is stuff that we might want to use later for something or other minus we’ll record it. And later regret, not regret, not shooting this. So we did it. And then she called me one day and she goes, I really, my mission is to humanize the industry. And I want to use the part of the interview where I talk about my son.

Cause nobody knew she had a son. Everybody just thinks that she’s out there doing her thing. And that’s how the movie starts. That the portal, it doesn’t tell that obviously there’s no images of him. It’s only about she’s talking about her struggles as a mom with a son was five years old with cerebral palsy. And now this and was she’s, you know, in the interview, she talks about how all she thought about is like, I need to go home. If I’m going to die, I want to die at home with him. I need to see my son.

And it’s emotional because as a parent, that’s that’s heart wrenching and heartbreaking. So, so with us, we’re like, well, let’s put this documentary together. So we started showing the sizzle reel to people and everybody’s just like, you guys need to cut a mainstream movie or this and you need to send it to film festivals. You need to send it to anyone who would watch this. So that’s because there’s a lot of stuff on there. That’s super weird. We propose, we would propose to each other in the funniest ways, in the weirdest ways we have it all recorded.

We D we do really because she’s very nerdy, very more nerdier than I am. I am B I have like thousands of action figures. I literally, my house looks like 40 year old version from the movie 40 year old Virgin. That’s literally my house. When we went to see the movie with my friends, my friends are looking at him like, fuck you guys. I’m not a 40 year old Virgin. Fuck you guys. But yes, my house does look like that. And you know, like with her, when we first started talking, it was literally an email. She emailed us about work. And I reached out to her and we started talking.

We spent five hours talking about like, I’ll showing off, who owns what? She wants a huge sort collection from game of Thrones. She loves game of Thrones. That’s her thing. So not I’m sorry, Lord of the rings. Oh my gosh. She would kill me if I said Lord of the rings. So I’m showing her all my stupid collections. And then literally like three weeks after I was talking, I’m like, can I come to visit? You should look, please do. So she surprises me because she’s a huge gremlins fan. She even has the gremlin tattooed on her, on her leg play.

So I fly out to see her. She surprises me. She has me close. My eyes would try to look 20 degrees. Cause this was like December I’m wearing shorts. I don’t wear pants and wearing shorts on the t-shirt. I’m like, whatever, she was close your eyes. She walks me into this building, walks me into a theater. I opened my eyes and she goes we’re here I go. Yeah. Okay. We’re in a theater. She goes, no, no, no. I’ve rented the whole theater for you. And I just to watch criminals together. And I was just like, this is, this is, this is my dream woman.

This I, who, who does that? Who does that? You know? And she went to the bathroom and I cried. I cried and I recorded myself crying and I actually sent it to her, but she didn’t see it until we got back to, she rented a haunted bed and breakfast for us. So we stayed at a haunted Ben breakfast as well. So to try to outdo her, which she’d prefer stripped LA, I made my whole living room into a UFO crash site. I bought inflatable 10 foot UFO. I put plastic wrap all over it by house. I bought inflatable aliens that were like scattered all over the floor.

I even had a little alien speaker that was talking to her in the kitchen while I was running inside, turning all the lights, getting all the behind the scenes, cameras, rolling, everything else. It was a so, so we’re constantly trying to do that for each other because

Speaker 1 (1h 1m 27s): You guys, you guys are quite the pair. There’s no two ways about it.

Speaker 2 (1h 1m 30s): W yes. So, so that’s kind of like our game plan now. Let’s can we do in this documentary, we’re trying to grow Alta Roddick and we’re trying to get a reality show together. We’ve been doing this in called two Russians, one America, where we just do weird dumb things. And then we have all these weird friends with us. We have our tattoo artists, Evelyn ain’t, who’s got a split tongue, face tattoos, amazing tattoo artists. And she’s a performer. And we took her to a bed and breakfast on the bed. Didn’t even tell her until we’re pulling up to it. We have footage of poor, like freaking out, like I’m not staying here, you know, all kinds of stuff.

So we have a lot of pet projects, obviously trying to pay our bills. But this year, our plan is to try to grow our, getting our YouTube channel together. I have my own YouTube channel called cirrhotic has a huge YouTube channel. We’re trying to get our two restaurants, one America, YouTube channel going and just doing a lot of things. You know, like Texas house from asker to hopefully like what’s L for we did Inc. Hotel three. And it got five and nominations, which is a lot for a movie that was shot.

Everything concentrated. Yeah. There was not one person in there that got paid and we have five nominations, which is huge because we’re competing

Speaker 1 (1h 2m 44s): Against

Speaker 2 (1h 2m 45s): Big budget productions. And it’s literally like to shoot that’s it. That’s exactly it. I love to light. I love to write weird shit. I I’m in the movies. I don’t do scenes, but I’m in the movies acting a fool, like a crazy Russian pornographer. I used to scream and yell in Russia and all kinds of stuff. So we were already started in motel for at least ideas for it. We just have a lot lined up and I’m really about helping talent that once to build their brand properly, help them.

You know, I helped Christy Mack. Who’s a huge name. She gives credit for me, helping her build her brand. I helped people like my, my company called the cops, sorry, by company Poobah. We did sides for, we still run sides for Nicole Addison. So Kira Christy Mac, Samantha sane, Alison Tyler. We did sides for Romy rain, Abigail Mac, and all these girls were fairly new when they started.

So my work helped them build those brands, whether you want to commit to it or not. Yeah, it feels great. But especially with some of the Christie macros, huge gives me credit for helping her start a merchant line, helping her build her brand. That means a lot because I’ve never wanted anything, but from them, except that should cool stuff, let’s help each other out and move on from there. And some girls came and went some, you know, the typical, you know, you didn’t do shit for me or whatever else, you know, I’m like, I don’t care.

I don’t need the credit. I don’t give a fuck. Do your thing. I don’t care. You know? So with no sweat off my balls, I got to shoot some cool shit with some really cool people. I’m happy.

Speaker 1 (1h 4m 31s): So what the maintenance it’s what makes the world go round, right?

Speaker 2 (1h 4m 34s): Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, and especially like with ultra Roddick, we should all girls in all girls, basically stepchildren of porn. They really are. You know, it’s not like they’re getting a lot of work. They’re really looked down on in society because like, I she’s got tattoos. She must be a crack head or whatever else, you know, or drug dealer or, or, or something. And to me, I look at all girls as creative people who express their creativity, their passion, or their emotions on their body, because they’re telling a story with their body.

And I love that. So to me, helping them out, like we have a girl, Amber, Lou, cause one of our brand ambassadors, she’s got tattooed eyeballs, blue, baby blue eyeballs, she got tattooed. And she came out here three years ago. I became like a big brother and I would, I helped her out. Shit went crazy viral on YouTube per whatever videos is that 18 million views on our channel. It’s huge. And now we had a UK channel reach out to me wanting that content for the TV show.

Dad just give us credit. You know? So, so there’s like a lot of that going on. I, I love seeing people that are dedicated that are good people being success. Cause like, you know, I’m going to be 52. How long do I have left home was died three years, two years ago. I don’t know.

Speaker 1 (1h 5m 54s): Well, you know what? I haven’t, I’m 64. Hopefully we both have a long time left. I’d really like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I know we have a lot more we can talk about and I hope we’ll have a chance to do it again really soon.

Speaker 2 (1h 6m 10s): Yes, this was great. I love sharing stories so I could talk, I could talk for hours as you can tell. So

Speaker 1 (1h 6m 15s): Thank you very much. My broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy and then establishing what your budget is next. It’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult site broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can also act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site.

Other places to look are boards like X biz.net and GF y.com. But to be completely honest, unless what you’re looking for is a really low end property. You’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course you could contact site owners yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living. It’s a major hassle. And it can be really hard to even find out who owns the site. Almost all adult sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar. So when you send them an email, it will be to an anonymous address.

And in most cases, the emails aren’t returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out, we’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week, we’ll be speaking with therapist, Dr. Monique. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again, I’d like to thank my guest, Ivan of AltErotic. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk.

I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with sex therapist team Stephanie and Fox from Evolve Your Intimacy and the Kinky Coach.

ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker would like to announce we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts! That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult side broker, we’re proud to introduce for sale a transgender tube site with over 120,000 unique visitors daily, the site is a custom built tube. Videos are encoded at a very high quality. There are four grades of video. It will auto adapt to the best quality based on the user’s connection.

1 (1m 33s):
Premium quality and downloads are only available to members who have a paid account. The site script can take a lot of traffic with the current server being an only about a 10% load. There are over 30,000 videos. Retention rate is 85%, only $274,000. Now time for this week’s interview my guests today on adult side, broker talker, Stephanie and Fox, Stephanie and Fox. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

2 (2m 5s):
Thank you for having us for having us.

1 (2m 7s):
Hey, it’s a pleasure and I’m really looking forward to this. Now they’re partnered in life and business and are happily open publicly about the non-monogamous relationship. Stephanie had Foxer all right, Diane NAMIC duo who have a passion for helping others discover their relationships true potential. Having met on a dating app for a quick hookup, they immediately knew this is a relationship that had the potential to be much more. After many years together, they’ve designed their personal relationship to fulfill their individual desire and needs, which include an open concept and strong communication. Stephanie is a bisexual and foxes straight, and they both thoroughly enjoy sharing their intimacy with other people together.

1 (2m 49s):
They feel that it’s unrealistic for the other partner to fulfill every sexual desire and need. So they invite others with similar relationship styles and interests to share in the Stephanie is a certified sex therapist, a licensed professional counselor, adult and sex worker specialist and alternative relationship specialist and a board certified relationship intimacy and sex education coach. Ooh, that’s a mouthful. Okay. Fox is a sexual assault, victim intervention specialist, sexual assault prevention and response specialist, and a crisis intervention specialist together. They own the kinky coach spelled with a K a king based professional platform, bringing together professional educators and users, Stephanie and Fox, a podcast for education on intimacy, relationships, sex education, and communication, and evolve your intimacy, a guidance center, providing counseling, coaching workshops, retreats, and education for those seeking to educate enlightened and evolve.

1 (3m 52s):
Their intimacy. Stephanie and Fox have appeared on numerous TV and radio shows and have been widely published, especially in the kink and lifestyle areas. We’ve also won multiple awards and are on prestigious boards, including pineapple support, who adult site broker proudly supports. Sorry. That’s all we have time for today. Okay. That’s a, that’s a heck of a, that’s a heck of a bio there. I think that’s my record evolve your intimacy or E Y I.

3 (4m 26s):
Yeah, so of all your intimacy is a guidance and counseling center. And our, our main focus is to educate enlighten any evolve, the intimacy of others. So we know that relationships are hard and there really isn’t a guide for this. No one’s ever told you how to be in a relationship. So what we do is we help couples navigate all of that and learn how to communicate and work through sexual disappointments, mismatched, libidos, all kinds of fun stuff.

1 (4m 58s):
Sounds good. So who is Stephanie personally?

3 (5m 3s):
Oh, Stephanie is, Hey, how would you describe me personally,

2 (5m 9s):
Stephanie, I would classify as passionate dramatic. She wears a hard run, the sleeve. She is Southern loud and she is just loving. I mean, she is probably the most loving and accepting person I have ever met in my entire life. And that is not an embellishment. I mean, you tolerate me that says a lot.

1 (5m 37s):
That’s awesome. And I, and I love the, I love the Southern accent, Stephanie, that a, that adds a lot.

3 (5m 44s):
It is intense at times I try to hide it.

1 (5m 49s):
I do well. And since we’re recording this on January 25th, I’m not even going to bring up that 49 or cowboy game.

3 (5m 57s):
Yeah. When the best that’s okay.

1 (6m 1s):
It was good for me. It was good for me anyway. So who is Stephanie professionally?

3 (6m 10s):
Well, that one I can answer. I’m a licensed therapist in Texas and in Florida, I recently just got certified for certified sex therapy. And I’m in the dissertation phase of my PhD program where I’m going to have a doctorate of clinical sexology. I tend to be a reality-based therapist. So I kind of, or I, don’t kind of, I tell you what you need to hear, not necessarily what you want to hear. And that’s a lot, that’s part of what I do in counseling.

1 (6m 42s):
That’s awesome. So, so if I, if I came to you for counseling, you kinda kind of give me an idea of what I would, what I would experience.

3 (6m 53s):
Yeah. So it really depends on what you’re coming for. If we’re going to stay with the same realm of relationship counseling, we would automatically start off with, well, what brought you here? And I always ask, what is the thing that made you say, fuck, I need to reach out for counseling. And so most of the time the clients tell me what that point was. And then we work backwards from there. It’s a, it’s a puzzle.

1 (7m 19s):
What’s the, what’s the longest period of time. You’ve you’ve counseled somebody.

3 (7m 25s):
Oh, well I do retreats. So we’ve done the three-day retreats.

1 (7m 30s):
I mean, in terms of how many in terms of months and years.

3 (7m 33s):
Oh, oh wow. So my goal is to work myself out of a job. I don’t want to keep, because I have other people I need to help with that said I do have a few lifers. And I think my longest one right now is three years, but that’s severe trauma. I’m just going to say that’s a very long one. That’s not, not very, a very common, I guess.

1 (7m 57s):
Oh, sure. Sure. So who is Fox personally? I guess, I guess Stephanie gets to answer this one,

2 (8m 4s):
Right? I was like, well, let’s play the same game.

3 (8m 7s):
Oh wow. Fox. He loves hard, but he only loves the hose that yeah, he loves. So he’s the kind of person that will tell it, like it is, he doesn’t try to hurt your feelings, but he’s not going to try to sugarcoat anything. And he’s actually genuine. You don’t meet many genuine people in this world and he is truly genuine.

1 (8m 32s):
That’s awesome.

2 (8m 33s):
Well, that was a very nice and political from that ad. I usually get told I’m very stoic, intimidating, and I don’t talk much, but I truly do love people. And I do have a very knit tight group of friends. And I don’t open that circle up very often

3 (8m 56s):
Where I’m all about free love and love and everybody he’s all about not,

2 (9m 4s):
I also love very openly. I have been in polyamorous relationships in the past. And so I, you know, I’m all about the free expression of love is just that I don’t trust very many people. My careers have taught me to demand someone prove themselves at the same time, give them that same respect. Hmm.

1 (9m 26s):
Okay. So who is Fox professionally?

2 (9m 30s):
So I’m medically retired. Military just retired as a federal law enforcement to two or three years ago now three years ago. And that led me into my work with Stephanie. So I’m also a relationship intimacy and sex education coach as well. And then I also teach skydiving on the side. I Moonlight as a skydive and coach.

1 (9m 58s):
Wow. Wow. How is that? Go ahead. Go ahead, Stephanie. Sorry.

3 (10m 4s):
I was just gonna say, oh yeah. And part of Stephanie, she’s got attitude.

1 (10m 8s):
So how skydiving, tell me about that.

2 (10m 11s):
You know, so a lot of people hear that term and they freak out and say, oh, I’m jumping out of the plane. And I’m like, well, technically you don’t jump. You fall, you fall on a curve. So you don’t get sick to your stomach. And when you’re up there, you it’s bliss. It’s like yoga or meditation because you have nothing to think about, but making sure that you survive and land safely. In the meantime, you’re with some extraordinary people, skydiving is very much like the alternative lifestyle where it doesn’t matter how much money you make, who you are, even really what your name is.

2 (10m 51s):
Everyone is out there for one purpose only. And everyone for the most part has the utmost respect for each other. And we all are just one big family.

1 (11m 1s):
Wow. I’m way too much of a pussy to do that. So I’m too afraid of death. So tell me, tell me the story about how the two of you met.

2 (11m 13s):
Okay. I’m going to tell my short version, and then she’s going to say, she’s going to tell you the right one. So we both had just got out of relationships. Mine, I think longer than hers, I’m less of the slot here. Just going to put that out there. And I say we met on Tinder. We were both just trying to hook up. And after the first date I realized, oh, she’s attractive. She has intelligence. She’s street smart. Maybe I should not fuck this one. Maybe I should hold out a little bit and see where it takes me. That’s my story.

3 (11m 48s):
And I say, we met on Bumble either way. We met on a dating app. Yes. We were both looking to just hook up. But yeah, he wouldn’t give it up. So he made me wait.

1 (12m 1s):
Oh my God.

3 (12m 2s):
Yeah. It was terrible all the way slutty Stephanie was out there.

1 (12m 8s):
Hm, wow. Wow. Yeah. I, it must have been disappointing for you, Stephanie, of being on a, being on a hookup app and, and not, not getting it. That must, that must have really sucked.

3 (12m 21s):
Well, it did, but it was worth the wait. I mean, I stuck around a little bit longer.

1 (12m 25s):
Indeed. Indeed. Do you to do, do you to do coaching and therapy together by the way?

2 (12m 35s):
So we do, it’s two different companies. One is a Stephanie’s counseling service, which has beautiful beginnings counseling. And then we have evolve your intimacy, which also has therapists and board certified coaches. But that is, that is a coaching platform.

1 (12m 52s):
Okay. Okay. So that year in together. Okay. So what’s the difference between coaching and therapy?

3 (13m 0s):
Well, so in coaching, the coach helps a person achieve like a specific goal and they decide that it’s person to person, everybody that comes into coaching has something that they want to achieve. On the other hand, a therapist really helps the people deal with the problems and difficulties that they face in their life. And it’s just very deep and internal level where coaching is kind of superficial coaches get to be friends, therapists get to be

2 (13m 28s):
Professionals,

3 (13m 28s):
Professionals.

2 (13m 30s):
We also don’t have as many CPU’s, which is nice. And we don’t spend the same amount of money to get that LPC or therapist title like we do as a board certified coach.

3 (13m 43s):
Yeah. It’s been a lot of money on these licenses.

1 (13m 47s):
Yeah. I guess, I guess what are the, what are the expectations between coaching and therapy? How are they different?

2 (13m 60s):
So I want to say the expectation is relatively the same. Somebody comes in or somebodies or persons, whatever that looks like, and they either have a goal or an issue or a complication or a hardship or, or what have you. And they want guidance. They want help in either resolving that or finding a way to adapt their life, to involve that if it’s something that is going to be around forever and ever amen. And so there’s, there’s not much difference when it comes to that. However, as Stephanie defined, you know, coaching is more specific goals, it is more client based.

2 (14m 45s):
So we do have, you know, a plan put in place, but it’s not a treatment plan per se. Like it would be a counselor or a therapist. And it, as, as she already stated, we are very much a professional friend. We can get away with a lot more. We can talk about a lot more. We can get extremely personal where even though therapists can do that, there is a fine line with our ethics board on what they can and can’t get personal with.

1 (15m 12s):
Sure, sure. So we’ve talked about expectations now. What, what should they expect from a coaching relationship? What, what, what will actually happen?

2 (15m 24s):
Right. So when someone signs up with our coaching platform, you go to a website of all your intimacy.com. And initially we have an initial consultation, which is free last about 30 minutes. And really that’s the time for the client just to word vomit, anything and everything they need to around, whatever situation is going on. And the coach will take notes. We take about 10 minutes and talking to them a resolving what we heard saying, Hey, this is what I heard, please, correct me if I’m wrong. This is what I think would help you. And then we put them with a suitable coach. Some coaches have different strengths than others.

2 (16m 6s):
For instance, myself, I am stronger with polyamorous couples and non-monogamous couples than I am with anything. And then also communication where other coaches have other strong points. So after that, they set up their own appointment. They last anywhere from an hour to two hours, we try never to go past two hours because after that nobody’s really paying attention and not much else is getting resolved after that. And you know, it is literally a back and forth clients talk a little bit, I’ll intervene, ask some questions, some clarifying questions, try and give some resolve or some tools. And that’s pretty much what a session looks like.

2 (16m 46s):
And then we repeat and repeat and repeat until the client feels, Hey, I have all the tools in my tool bag that I feel are necessary. And then we tell them, look, you’ve graduated from us. You don’t need us anymore. You can always check back in. If you guys have a hiccup, we’re always here for you. And unless there’s a major issue moving forward, really just check in with us, you know, and that’s pretty much what a coaching relationship looks like, which is very different than a therapeutic relationship.

1 (17m 15s):
Okay. And I’ll ask you about that in a second, but the coaching relationship, it really sounds a lot like the relationship between a coach and an athlete is, is that, is that reading it right?

2 (17m 29s):
Yeah. That’s actually a very good way to put it.

1 (17m 33s):
Okay. Now the same question for therapeutic relationship, what will they, what will they experience

3 (17m 41s):
Well? So the therapeutic relationship is a lot different than the coaching relationship because I have specialty training that the coaches don’t have. And that’s me with the anxiety, the depression, the trauma, all of that stuff that I’ve focused on for so many years and then add onto it, the sex therapy. So a licensed therapist, they’re highly trained in dealing with the mental health topics like depression, anxiety, infidelity, and so much more. What we do is therapists identify a person like in a person’s life when they’re, what’s causing them to be stuck from progressing and from living a really healthy life.

3 (18m 23s):
And so the therapist really helps clients with emotional regulation, improved communication skills. We strengthen self-esteem, we promote behavior change. We really dig deep and figure out what the cause of the issue is. We make some connections, we unpack it. And yeah, we just really work on that very deep, deep level, lots of tears, sometimes lots of laughter. And you never know what you’re going to get in a session.

1 (18m 50s):
Yeah. I guess sex therapy must get a little bit tricky because, you know, and relationship obviously as well, but I mean, sex therapy has gotta be, I dunno, more than a little bit sensitive because I mean, I’ve been, I’ve been, I’ve done relationship therapy with my, with my wife before we were married. And I, I have a pretty good idea of how that goes, but I, I have a little trouble imagining, okay. I go in and I talk to people about our sex lives. That’s gotta be a lot more touchy.

3 (19m 27s):
It can be, it can be absolutely. But at the same time, the people coming in have been living with this for so long that they finally got the courage to say, I can’t do this anymore and I need help. So they’re already coming in with a mindset of, okay, we’ve been dealing with this for so many years, so many months, whatever, and we just need some outside help. And so they’re, they’re already really receptive to it. So the sensitivity is not as great as what you would think for like, you know, just somebody going to therapy and then all of a sudden sex gets brought up.

1 (19m 59s):
Hmm. Okay. So how is sex therapy and coaching different from regular therapy? There must be some big differences.

2 (20m 8s):
Yeah. So there is so and correct me if I’m wrong, hon. So a sex therapist is also a licensed mental health professional, but they have an extensive education and training within sex therapy. So, you know, topics like sexual function, lack of desire, mix-match libidos, intimacy and fidelity all the way to, you know, past sexual trauma, maybe childhood trauma, you know, erectile, disappointments, painful intercourse, how to have healthy sex communication is also very much a big thing involved with that. Did I miss anything? Huh?

3 (20m 48s):
No, you didn’t. Yeah. We spend a lot of hours focused on sex. Sex has been my focus. What for the last three years now? Yeah. All things sex, good, bad and ugly.

1 (21m 4s):
It’s been my focus for 64 years. So

3 (21m 8s):
I agree with that now. See, I study sex sexology. I love to have sex. And I’ve been doing that for quite a while. But the study of sex I’ve been engrossed in for about three years solid. No

1 (21m 24s):
You don’t, you, you we’ve met, you’ve mentioned Fox. You’ve mentioned a mix-matched libidos a few times. Talk about that issue. How prevalent is it and how do you fix it?

2 (21m 39s):
Okay. So I’m gonna do my best and I’m going to let Stephanie definitely chime in, cause this is, this is really her thing, but I have, I have been learning along the way. So to my understanding, you know, mix-match libidos, a lot of people take that personally because one partner or more partners, depending on what your relationship status looks like is either a lot more highly sexual than the other or others. And then of course the opposite. And a lot of people tend to take that personally, like, well, that has to do with me, right? So for instance, if I woke up tomorrow and for whatever reason, I am now hyper hyper-sexual where let’s say, you know, Stephanie is hypo sexual.

2 (22m 21s):
You know, I may look at my wife and go, well, it’s my fault. Or I’m not attractive enough or I’m not trying hard enough or she’s bored with me or she’s cheating on me or, you know, or, or, or, and there’s a bunch of oars when the true issue behind that. Normally commonly, I actually don’t like the word normal commonly is either miscommunication. It’s something within the person’s body. So the chemical makeup, their body’s behaving differently.

1 (22m 53s):
Yeah.

2 (22m 53s):
Or again, communication. I mean, communication is huge. When it comes to mix, match will be is because sometimes the person doesn’t even know what’s happening with them. They just know that they are not lacking sex in the same pattern or frequency that they used to share that because I see you’re looking at me like, oh, but there’s more

3 (23m 17s):
Also part of Ms. Special DDoS is there could be something that a client is hanging on to from 20 years ago. And once we get down and we start breaking down all of their, their breaks and their accelerators and all of that fun stuff that Emily and the gossipy talks about, it might come out that, you know, at one point you said that I looked terrible in this lingerie and I’ve held that on. I’ve held that forever. And now I don’t ever want to wear lingerie and I never want to have sex again because of what you said 20 years ago. And that was a shock to some people that the partners are like, what, where did that come from? And so really diving deep and trying to figure out what the base of it is.

3 (23m 58s):
There’s always a root to it, unless there’s something hormonal or there is something medically wrong. I always tell the very first thing I ask is, have you been to your doctor and have you had your hormones tested? Have you have your testosterone tested? What do we, what are we working with with those levels? Because as we age those levels decrease, and that’s a real thing that can really cause mismatched libidos. But if it’s all on the up and up and everybody’s healthy, okay. From the doctor, then we start digging deep and you know, if they can’t overcome this, then we get to look at different styles of relationships. What can we do to help, to help with, to help you guys overcome this and stay as a couple or a threat or whatever the dynamics are.

1 (24m 43s):
Hmm. You, you mentioned, you guys have mentioned communications a lot, which obviously that’s, that’s huge when we’re talking about relationships, how many issues that you have people present to, you have to do with nothing more than communications?

3 (25m 4s):
I would say 80%, if not more.

1 (25m 8s):
Okay. Okay.

3 (25m 11s):
And I say this, we are not taught how to communicate. We weren’t taught that in school. We weren’t taught that most of us weren’t taught that from our parents and we don’t have healthy relationships to model our new or existing relationships after the templates, suck Hollywood templates suck. You know, your parents probably weren’t the best, but you know, here we are just trying to make it. So no one really has that template to go off of that’s when you, that’s why they’re happy. Even if it’s a coach or anything is so awesome for any couple, because we provide you with that narrative, that language, those skills that you weren’t taught ever.

1 (25m 47s):
Yeah. Yeah. They don’t, they don’t have school for relationships. Do they?

3 (25m 52s):
Not at all. They don’t even have sex education in most places.

1 (25m 55s):
Yeah. Yeah. They had that one that they had that when I was in high school when many, many eons ago, and I, I hear they’ve eliminated. How, how much of a problem is that

2 (26m 6s):
That is a huge problem, especially here in the United States, because there is no one way to teach sex education. It is state by state. And depending on your geographical location, depends on what type of sex education you get. And in some states sex education is a mere sentence of don’t have sex until you’re married because it’s a sin end quote and sex education. You’ve now been taught. So reframe use abstinence until you’re married and then only use sex for procreation. It’s absolutely terrible. So a lot of our kids nowadays are learning from porn, social media, tick talk, a whatever website they can conjure up without looking at the sources.

2 (26m 54s):
I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s outrageous. And it’s scary.

1 (26m 58s):
How much of a problem is that for the adults that these people become?

3 (27m 3s):
Well, they have unrealistic ideation, unrealistic expectations. Well, I can talk of what sex is. So if you’re raised on Hollywood porn and you think that sex well, that’s completely unrealistic. And so they’re going to have lots of disappointments when they’re starting to have sex and it doesn’t look like that. The woman doesn’t sound like that. You know, he’s not having just mindblowing life, altering sex every single time. And so people get confused and they really, man, those, those unrealistic expectations can kick you in the ass and then you get into a relationship and you know, you, you expect one thing and that’s not, that’s not going to happen.

1 (27m 44s):
Yeah. Yeah. And you also mentioned porn now. We’re obviously very, very porn positive on this podcast. And you know, I, I, I broke her websites in the adult space. You folks are, are very much a part of the adult industry and then the kink community. But how much of a problem is it when young people watch porn and expect that that’s kind of the way things are. And again, I’m not looking to bat, I’m not looking to bash porn because there’s enough people doing that for us. But how, how much, how much of that as a problem?

2 (28m 25s):
Well, considering, and I was on Playboy for a short time, I’m going to let Stephanie answer that, but it’s, it can be a problem if they don’t know what they’re properly looking at. Oh yeah.

3 (28m 37s):
If they get ahold of ethical porn that is more realistic, they’re going to see bodies that look like theirs. They’re going to see maybe some more jiggle in, in some of the stomachs or little butts, you know? And so it’s not, they’re not perfect. They’re going to see all those of all shapes, colors, sizes, and you know, they’re not looking for that porno. Perfect pussy is what I like to call it, but they’re, so it just really depends on the type of porn they’re exposed to. Yeah. If it’s the ethical porn and we’ve got some really good variations in representation, then I don’t see anything wrong with that.

3 (29m 19s):
But when we get into that unrealistic Hollywood and I call it Hollywood porn, that, and that’s what we were all

1 (29m 26s):
Raised born. Yeah.

2 (29m 29s):
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it’s also, you know, ethical porn doesn’t always have a cum shot. Doesn’t, you know, not every single woman takes it in their mouth or in her butt or on her face or in her eyeballs or, you know, all these other unrealistic things that last yeah, exactly. You know, it’s just, that is not what sex looks like all the time. That’s not even what sex looks like most of the time.

3 (29m 55s):
Yeah. I think I’ve only had sex like that, but just a handful of times.

1 (29m 60s):
Yeah. And also you don’t want the women to expect a 12 inch cock or the men do expect, you know, massive, massive breasts and a perfect body because then they get disappointed.

3 (30m 11s):
Yeah,

2 (30m 12s):
Exactly.

1 (30m 13s):
So what are the most common questions a sex therapist gets from clients? Give me some,

3 (30m 20s):
Okay. So some, the most ones am I normal? Everybody wants to know, am I normal? Yeah. What the hell is normal? That’s my question to them. What the hell is normal? So I, everybody, yes. That’s just my question. My answer to every question. Yes you are. Well, okay. Well what does that mean? I don’t know what that means, but your normal dammit. Move on another question.

1 (30m 50s):
I see the, I see the attraction immediately. Fox feisty, feisty. I love it. I love it.

3 (30m 58s):
And I, I’m not even going to say, unfortunately, fortunately what you see here and what you hear here is what you also get in the office because I’m, I’m real. I’m not going to have anybody. I don’t know. I don’t blow air up. Anybody’s skirt. I guess the best way to say it. Another common question is can I learn to orgasm

1 (31m 18s):
And your answer?

3 (31m 20s):
I’m sorry. He’s looking at me crazy. And I don’t know what he’s doing.

2 (31m 23s):
No, I want to go next after you’re done talking about,

3 (31m 28s):
I think it like slow down those hand signals and let me answer questions. So yes, you can learn to orgasm. Now is the orgasm going to look the way you expect it to look? Probably however we can get there. It’s it’s a slow buildup over time. And so there are so many, I have a, a course that we’ve, we’re going to be putting up on our website and it’s, it’s going to teach women how to orgasm and teach men how to help their women orgasm.

1 (31m 55s):
Nice. Yeah. Well that’s and that’s that’s and that’s just so important to that. That both sides are, are looking out for the other

2 (32m 5s):
Yeah. A hundred percent. So another one we get, and this is from men and women is what’s the average penis size is mine too small, too big, too thick, too skinny, you know, is anyone going to appreciate it? Am I going to be able to give someone pleasure with this thing? And it’s, you know, what’s good for the goose may not be good for the Gander and vice versa. That’s true. Not every woman or man wants a 12 inch penis. I can tell you. Yeah. I have one prior military buddy that was 11 and a half inches. And the blood flow issue he had was outrageous. And he could only stay hard for about 15 minutes.

1 (32m 45s):
Oh God.

2 (32m 46s):
You know, it’s, we’re taught as kids or I was taught as a kid, you know, back in the late seventies size matters. It means everything. Okay. You know, you say that. And then since I’ve gotten to the world of sex, I can tell you that does size matter to a certain extent. Okay? Sure. Does it mean because you’re smaller than the average person that you can’t provide? Pleasure. Okay. No, every woman’s vagina and vulva is shaped differently. The depths are different. The canals are different. So you just have to match yourself with someone that can appreciate your size. You also have your tongue and your hands and your words and the rest of your body.

2 (33m 30s):
Not everything has to be about penetration.

1 (33m 32s):
Big time, big time, not too

3 (33m 36s):
One question that we get a lot and I love this one is, do you watch me have sex? Are you going to have sex with me?

2 (33m 43s):
Know, are you going to put on a whistle and a coach’s uniform? Cause your ex-coach right.

1 (33m 48s):
You know, I, you know, I I’m getting, I’m getting that picture and, and in my mind, and it’s pretty fucking hilarious. I, I think there’s actually, I think if a, if a, if an enterprising porn producer is listening here, I think there might be a scene in this.

3 (34m 3s):
Oh, absolutely. I have the costume. Cause we joke about it when we go to hedonism to, for sports, not

2 (34m 11s):
At legitimately.

1 (34m 12s):
Oh God. Yeah. I went, I went there once. Unfortunately it was Christmas week, bad week to go.

2 (34m 18s):
I was going to say there’s a unfortunately in, Hito usually never enter the same sentence.

3 (34m 23s):
I’ve never heard that before.

1 (34m 25s):
This is true. This is true. So what, what’s your answer to that? How do you, how do you address the, the, a whistle and the coach’s uniform?

3 (34m 36s):
I always say, well, I hate to disappoint you, but no, I will not be watching. You have sex and I will not be having sex with you. And I can tell you about I’m about 30% of the husbands are like what? Or, you know, 30% of the people were like, what I’m like, okay. Well,

2 (34m 54s):
I don’t tell her about half of the emails that we get asked, w one always requesting Stephanie and I’m like, well, that’s the way it should be anyway. But B with that actual same question, you know, Hey, does this mean you’re coming to our house? No, no,

1 (35m 14s):
Love it. Love it. So is sex therapy and coaching mainly for non-monogamous people?

2 (35m 22s):
So, no, absolutely not. It’s for any, you know, it’s not even just for couples it’s for any person or persons, couple, whatever that looks like that, you know, either a, wants to jump ahead because we have a lot of young couples now that come to us right out the gate, they just started dating or they’re talking about marriage and they come to us and say, okay, we don’t want to screw anything up. So here we are. And there’s no real underlining issue. It’s just maintenance. Right. Exactly. You know, and then it’s just for anyone that feels that they may need guidance advice, or they have an ailment or an issue or concern.

2 (36m 3s):
So really it’s for anybody non-monogamy or monogamy has nothing to do with whether you should come to sex therapy or coaching or not.

1 (36m 11s):
Okay.

3 (36m 11s):
I would like to add to that as well. It’s for, it’s definitely for individuals. So I have, I have a handful of male clients right now who are struggling with micro penises and, you know, they just don’t feel like there’ll be able to perform or, you know, they’re struggling with different areas of their, of their anatomy. And so that’s been fun too. I mean, you don’t have to be in a couple to work with people or to work with a sex therapist or sex coach. I mean, it’s, you could come by yourself because I mean, you have sex with yourself, don’t you?

1 (36m 47s):
All right. Try. So EYI has a podcast tell us about it.

2 (36m 55s):
Sure. So we it’s evolve your intimacy with Stephanie and Fox. You can find it on any major podcast platform. I just say, go to our website, evolve all your intimacy.com and you can find it there. And we talk about the unknown subjects, the taboo, and we bring a lot of professionals on that are experts in their specific field. We also bring on couples and individuals as well. And you know, we get into those real conversations, real conversations. Like we had a gentlemen on that had a, had penis surgery and he had a penis pump placed into him.

1 (37m 35s):
And

2 (37m 36s):
We talked for a whole hour about him, you know, his journey, his wife’s journey. Cause their journeys were separate concerning the event, you know, and then what their sex looks like now, what their intimacy looks like, you know? So we do that. And then we interview people like Dr. Ari Tuckman. And we talk about, Hey, when you have ADHD, how does that affect your sex life or doesn’t because it absolutely does. It definitely, you know, alters your choices within your sexuality. So we talk about pretty much everything. And, and then of course, every now and then we talk about our own personal sex life, but that’s far in between, but there are some episodes in there.

3 (38m 19s):
Yeah.

1 (38m 21s):
That’s awesome. Sounds exciting. So what’s in the future for AYI.

3 (38m 27s):
Wow. So much we have workshops. We have a coaching platform that, ah, it’s got to be built. It’s being built. It’s built. It’s just not live yet. We have workshops, we have

2 (38m 44s):
Self study courses.

3 (38m 45s):
Self-help I mean, there’s so much what our goal is to help people have, I guess, find a common language and talk about sex, but also to, to remove the shame and stigma, because coming from Texas, the south sex is just not a common subject around here. And if it is, we’ll just bless your heart. You just need to go to church.

2 (39m 11s):
It’s really,

1 (39m 12s):
That’s so true.

2 (39m 13s):
Yeah. So our main goal is just to have an all encompassing, you know, platform that it’s built into our name that truly helps people evolve, their intimacy, whatever that looks like to them, any dynamic period.

3 (39m 29s):
Absolutely.

1 (39m 31s):
So what’s your advice for others in open relationships?

2 (39m 35s):
Ooh, that’s a loaded question. Yeah.

1 (39m 39s):
Go for it.

2 (39m 40s):
I’m going to, I’m going to say, so I’ve been in alternative relationships for over 23 years now, between swinging non-monogamy and polyamory. I would say 100% communication. If you don’t talk, I can’t listen. If we don’t talk, you can’t listen. And if neither one of us talk, neither one of us can be heard and therefore we can’t understand each other. You know, communication is a, it’s a very scary thing. For many people, fear judgment. They fear the reaction, you know, and they fear being chastised open up. You would be absolutely amazed at the response that you will get from your partner.

2 (40m 25s):
If you bring up whatever sexual based concern you have just directly and openly and sure, but don’t attack them on it. You know, just say, Hey, this is what I’m looking for. This is how I’ve evolved. Do you want to jump on this train with me and just have that honest and true conversation.

3 (40m 45s):
I want to add to that. Of course, of

2 (40m 48s):
Course.

3 (40m 50s):
I want to give permission to anybody and everybody who’s listening right now that want to do something different in their relationship. I want to give you permission to do it. You get to design your relationship any way you want it. It doesn’t matter what society says. Religion says, your mom says your aunt says it doesn’t matter. This is your relationship. And as of today, I’m giving you permission to begin marriage. Number two, relationship number two, and use all the information that you have and all the, the pain, the memories, the good, bad, the ugly from before this today and use all of that to create it. However you want it to look, it’s yours to design and I give you permission to design your relationship.

1 (41m 34s):
Nice. Nice. Yeah. I mean, there really are no rules right

2 (41m 39s):
There. Shouldn’t be,

3 (41m 40s):
There shouldn’t be, but there are

2 (41m 42s):
Societies as

1 (41m 43s):
Society has rules. But my, but my point is, I mean, there was a time where there wasn’t anywhere where gay people could get married. Now there is, but I mean the, the norms are, they’re really more norms are not rules, but if you’re in a relationship, you really don’t have rules, right?

3 (42m 2s):
Yeah. Boundaries and those should be negotiated within the, within the dynamic of the threat bull couple individually.

2 (42m 9s):
Well, you know, I think maybe if we’re talking on rules, the only rule should be love or care, whatever that looks like to you. Cause you know, not everyone in relationship is in love and that’s fine if you’re trying to benefit the relationship and not just yourself, you’re going to go very, very far.

1 (42m 31s):
Yeah.

2 (42m 32s):
You know, Stephanie said something, actually I think she typed something just the other day. And I, I just, I never even thought about this. And I was like, this is truly amazing. You know, when clients come to us, we don’t treat the client. We treat the situation.

1 (42m 47s):
Yeah.

2 (42m 48s):
And that’s what we go after. And, and we tell them that, you know, you’re the client, but really our client is whatever situation you’ve put in front of us, the relationship, the relationship or the dynamic of what you’re trying to resolve, especially, you know, because we do have some individuals that come to us as well. That’s what we’re treating. And that’s what we’re providing guidance for. It’s not for you as a person because you’re bias and you’re going to have certain wants versus needs. And they may not be positive for you or whatever relationship that you’re in. And we’re going to be honest about that.

1 (43m 23s):
Fantastic guys. I, I was really looking forward to this and now I know why Stephanie and Fox I’d like to thank you once again for being our guests today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll have a chance to do it again really soon.

2 (43m 38s):
Absolutely. We

3 (43m 39s):
Appreciate it. Thank you.

1 (43m 40s):
Thank you. My broker tip today is part one on how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a campsite, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site or something else. If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and what niche? There were literally hundreds of niches and many sub niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears are mature, bareback, Asian, Latino, amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification. Plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks and uniforms straight has even more sub-niche I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site or I want to buy a pay site.

1 (44m 35s):
I obviously need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you’d like man, and want to make money on a straight site, that’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays apart. What’s your budget. This is something you need to establish at the very beginning. Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want to buy a campsite with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established and successful site, it’s going to be really expensive.

1 (45m 21s):
If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’ll need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Ivan of alt erotic.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests Stephanie and Fox. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Megan Hussey the Feminist Sexpert.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer a hand tie and game site network.

The company has an Italian hentai pay site and the most popular Italian hentai free site, plus a popular game pay site. The free site has Italian hentai comics and videos, and 52,000 daily views. The adult Italian game site makes over 40,000 euros a month. The hentai comics and video site makes over 11,000 euros monthly. There are also a telegram channels for the sites that are included as well as the Patrion page.

All of the sites have a ton of content and the traffic is mostly organic. No advertising has been purchased. This is an amazing opportunity for anyone with hentai or game traffic. There is also all the necessary material to learn and manage the business included in the sale. Only 1.5 million euros. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Megan Hussey, the feminist sexpert@sexpert.com.

Megan, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 20s): Oh, thank you, Bruce. I’m very happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (2m 24s): It’s a pleasure. Now, Megan, as I said, is the feminist sexBird@sexpert.com. She’s a USA today, bestselling erotic author and feminist activist who has written for publications that include Playgirl good vibrations and scandalous women and sites that include shush.com and blush erotica. She’s a winner of six romance industry awards and a fem porn influencer who reviews and recommends good porn and erotica for women. She lives in Florida.

So, and one thing I didn’t add there, which you’ve kind of added recently, you’re a, you’re riding some movie scenes, I guess, huh?

Speaker 2 (3m 4s): Yes, yes. Actually just they viewed on a blush. Erotica is my good friend Lily Craven, and the scene is called mommy’s favorite. Son-in-law with a beautiful young man, a newcomer named Milan. And like I was telling you earlier, probably with Lillian Milan almost on screen, I’m not sure if anybody would actually be listening to the dialogue, but

Speaker 1 (3m 30s): Yeah, we were just, we were just be asking before that. So, so tell us more about your work as the feminist sexpert for sexpert.com and a correspondent for scandalous woman.

Speaker 2 (3m 47s): Yes. Yes. Well basically, you know, as an adult journalist, I always wanted to present the women’s point of view and the feminist point of view. I feel that it’s still underrepresented. And so, oh, well in both cases with, through my interviews, I have an interview series at each site and then I also have some opinions and commentaries it’s expert and also even like reviews and historical pieces.

And really my aim is to educate women, you know, about what’s available to them in terms of erotic entertainment, movies that are good for them, you know, stars that they should watch out for, and maybe even some things to avoid, you know? And so that’s really the aim, you know, of each of each column.

Speaker 1 (4m 48s): Yeah. You know, I mean really before sites like, like Andrew Roundtree did with the shish.com, there really wasn’t a lot of porn for women was there.

Speaker 2 (4m 59s): No, no. And I am so thrilled to work with Angie. I write erotica stories for her site and also I’ve done some audio scripts and she is a revolutionary, it’s an honor to work with her and the yes. You know, I mean there was her and candied her way out and, you know, just a handful of other directors that really got the ball rolling. And there are other creators out there today, you know, that I’m thrilled to see more of it probably.

Speaker 1 (5m 31s): Absolutely. Do you, do you see more of this happening as there are more women, women in porn?

Speaker 2 (5m 41s): Yes, definitely. You know, I think that the more women, what we have in terms of directing and writing, I know that with the feminist sex sexpert, I’ve interviewed Angie, you know, I’ve interviewed Jennifer Lyon, bell, Ms. Naughty, Erica lust. And I’m about to write interview incl ventures and also Stacy Lyle, who was an executive flush.

And yes, there are more women on the creative side, both women who got in directly as directors and writers, but then we also see a lot of stars, you know, who are really coming forward and saying, I’m going to make my own content. You know, I want to write something direct, something that I want to see. So I love that too.

Speaker 1 (6m 34s): Absolutely. Yeah. I forgot to mention Erica. She’s, she’s been another what I would call revolutionary. So, so you’re both an erotic novelist and an erotic writer for dot com. How did you become an erotic writer?

Speaker 2 (6m 52s): Well, you know, RUSA, it was funny because I never thought that anyone would ever read my erotic stories and I would not allow because basically I grew up in Muncie, Indiana. I was a farmer’s daughter and, you know, very conservative, politically conservative, but morally conservative to the extreme and the, you know, so we never talked about sex really.

And, but I just was just always a very romantic person, you know, and starting my teens, very, you know, just central curious about things. And so I basically started writing erotica just as a way to deal with my feelings, you know, and it’s a good thing too, because I’m notorious for having very poor penmanship. So luckily the times that people didn’t come upon my writing, they couldn’t read it, but I just started the, I just started writing erotica, you know, just to deal with my own feelings.

But then when I started reading it to friends of mine, they were just like, oh, wow. You know, like, especially back in college was when I really started sharing that. And I get these phone calls. Have you written any more than that story, that story. And I’m like, well, is it an emergency or So I agreed a little bit to the story and, you know, then I actually started printing up some stories that I did and selling them to girls, I canvas, you know, because they became that popular.

And so then I just went on, I had my first publication in the mid two thousands and I started, I am now currently primarily with satin, which is a division of Milan and yeah, so I just kind of laid the groundwork. And again, you know, I wanted to present a more feminist viewpoint. I wanted to show that you could have like a consensual relationship, you know, and very respectful really could still be hot, you know?

And I wanted to show women and more positions of power, you know? And so it’s an actual, and actually my novel leading lady should be coming out in a few months. So

Speaker 1 (9m 35s): That’s great. So now, how did you first get into the adult industry through your work with Playgirl?

Speaker 2 (9m 43s): Yes. Well, I tell you, it’s interesting because I was a Playgirl reader since college and that’s all I was, was a fan, you know, I have no, you know, I had no connections in the adult industry at all, but I haven’t been on a message board and somebody said something about Playgirl TV, you know, and this was back in the mid, mid two thousands. And I’m like, finally, it’s about time long ago, boy PV, you know?

And so then I Googled Playgirl TV and I saw that it was going to be like a cable channel viewer, you know, view on demand. And so I wrote in all I wanted to do, I thought I’d never hear back. You know, I thought they’re probably getting so many notes. I probably won’t even register, but, you know, I sent her an email and I said, I just want to say I support this a hundred percent. I’d like more information on the possible. And so there’s a wonderful lady named Ted Eisenberg who was with Playgirl marketing.

And she said, you know, this website is really only for marketing people. And my first thought was, oh, but then she said, it’s amazing. You’re really interested in this. Aren’t you? And so we started talking and almost every day we were talking back and forth. She was asking me for ideas. And pretty soon, Bruce, I went from being a Playgirl reader to being the national leader of the Playgirl fan club with the Playgirl posse.

I had a column in Playgirl magazine. I was writing back cover copy for Playgirl DVDs. And it just totally, I mean, it was amazing to me that I would be given such a national platform, you know, and I am thrilled that I met so many other interesting women, you know, and I really began to meet other women that were like me and I was also able to represent the female point of view, you know, like when there were people who would just insist that women didn’t read Playgirl, you know, that and I’d be like, Hm, last time I checked, I am a native woman.

So there you go.

Speaker 1 (12m 17s): Sure, sure. And that’s, that’s originally what play girl was for was, you know, obviously for women, what are some of the challenges, you know, w what are some of the challenges of being a sex positive feminist?

Speaker 2 (12m 34s): I think that probably the number one challenge is what took me out of the business for several years is that there was a time after Playgirl pretty much shut down. You know, I, I did do some writing with good vibrations, which is another wonderful company and started writing for scandals, you know, was fantastic, you know, but other than that, you know, I just didn’t see a lot, you know, that was remaining for women.

And honestly, what I was seeing started to disturb me, I started to see a lot more roughness, even in mainstream, you know, titles and just more roughness violence objectification. And, you know, I just really, I think I got to a point I never, for one second wasn’t anti-porn feminist, because I believe so strongly in freedom of speech, you know, but I also got to the point where I was like, I, you know, I can’t do this anymore.

I can’t watch this. I can’t represent it. I just, I can’t. And so that really took me out of it. And I tried to concentrate more on just my writing. I got into a kind of like audio erotica, like ASM Mar and things like that, you know, but then when I started to watch more of Andrew’s work it, you know, and also, you know, Ms. Naughty was still going strong, Jennifer Lyon, bell.

And I also began to see new and emerging names, you know, coming in and taking over. And I started to see more of what I liked again, and also what occurred to me. I thought, you know, you can’t change and an industry by leaving it. You know, I wanted to be there to be a voice for women. I wanted to make a difference and I wanted to be there, of course, in case any woman needed help, I believe very much and performer advocacy and total consent in all situations.

And so that’s why I came back, you know,

Speaker 1 (14m 58s): That’s awesome. And the whole idea of the, the roughness and the rough sex and in porn, that’s obviously, there’s a lot of controversy around that right now. What’s your, what’s your feeling about that?

Speaker 2 (15m 15s): Well, I think that, first of all, personally, I don’t like it. I’m not into it. I am not at all now. You know, I do believe that there are certain people of both genders who have of course certain fetishes and fantasies. And if the content I know another great site out there is after glow.

And I know that Lily sparks a fantastic head of after glow. She reminds me don’t yuck somebody else’s yum. You know? And, And so, you know, I realized that’s another part of being a feminist is giving women agency, if they do choose to act out these fantasies in a safe consensual forum. You know, for me, it’s always safety first consent first, you know, but to me, I would also like to play a hand and having content that is totally non-violent, you know, it doesn’t have to be a Harlequin romance every time.

You know, I’m not saying that, I’m just saying, I’d like to see more respect. I’d like to see more empowered women. And, you know, when you think about what in theater Royale, you know, was producing, you know, the four she’s no longer with us, but, you know, they’re just more like that, more of an option, because I honestly know of women who will just not watch porn because of that perception that they’re going to see something just awful, you know?

And I want to provide more options. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (17m 3s): Who are some of the interesting people you’ve interviewed?

Speaker 2 (17m 7s): Yeah. It’s interesting people that I’ve interviewed. Well also like for sexpert. Well, let’s see, I’ll start with scandal as women, because I was there first, as I said everywhere.

Speaker 1 (17m 23s): Why don’t I ask the question? Why don’t I ask the question again? Meghan? Why don’t I ask the question again and we’ll flow a little better. Okay. Okay. So who are some of the interesting people? You okay. Let’s try this again. Who are some of the interesting people you’ve interviewed?

Speaker 2 (17m 38s): Oh, okay. Yeah. Well now for my feminist sexpert interview series, I have two categories. Basically. I interview women who are content creators. Now these could either be directors like I’ve interviewed Andrew Roundtree, Willie Sparks and income winters, Jennifer Lyon, bell, you know, just Ms.

Naughty, just really fantastic directors. And then I have also interviewed actresses who are, who create their own content, very empowered. We want to talk about empowered. I’ve interviewed goddess. Lilla talk about very powerful woman and penny barber, you know, and you know, and Avery Jane and Rebecca Vanguard, and these are women of all different ages and backgrounds, but the common denominator is that they take a great deal of pride in what they do.

They’re very proud feminist. And, you know, they really take a proactive, you know, very view and very responsible view of what they do. And then as far as the men that I interview, I also, now I do take my interviews with the male talent seriously and respectfully, because I feel that they usually don’t get a lot of a platform. You know, they usually don’t a lot of people don’t recognize their names beyond the manual Ferrera, or, you know, it’s like, they’re just a couple that everybody recognizes.

And then the other guys are just, you know, you don’t hear a lot about them. And so I’ve gone out of my way to really spotlight male talent and the two requirements, generally, first of all, they have to be respectful of women, you know, in their really work for and their performances. And second of all, well, it kind of helps if they’re hot.

The reason mean isn’t my readers are women and they’re looking for, you know, who do you know, who, whose name do I look for when I’m buying a video? You know, what do I, I look for that download what guy do I want to see? And, you know, so yes, you know, it’s like, I’ve interviewed Joshua Lewis as well. The younger performers I’ve interviewed Dante Cole. It was just skyrocketing with his career.

I’ve interviewed Nathan Bronson, you know, I’ve interviewed brick Cummings who is an up and coming African-American gentleman. And my

Speaker 1 (20m 48s): Next one is

Speaker 2 (20m 48s): Very interesting. Yes, yes. And my next one is Darryl Jones who was actually very interesting. He’s an Instagram model and a fitness star who has just started and only fans. And he’s also going into hardcore, you know, with his movies. And so, yeah, as far it’s a little different with the men because I like to provide the ladies willful little fantasy, you know, I like to, you know, I always liked run very, a lot, you know, maybe more pictures of the men and maybe a little bit more tastefully revealing, you know, and because there’s just, I know DAMA hooped with the sexpert, a fantastic lady and doctor Dr.

Ava, Cadell’s ahead. And I just interviewed her today. She’s fantastic. You know, domino, she was telling me, she said, you know, I don’t think anybody else’s doing what you do, you know? And I got to thinking, you know, maybe she’s right, because there are very few women who go out of their way to interview the male talent from a woman’s perspective. You know, they might interview the male talent there, but it’s usually a lot of guys saying, so dude, what’s it like to, you know, work with so-and-so or it wasn’t get to get to them, all these beautiful ladies, male, high fives.

Speaker 1 (22m 22s): I know

Speaker 2 (22m 23s): With me, what I want to know is yeah. Yeah. And with me, what I want to know is, you know, how do you treat women on set? Do you like, you know, how do you please your female talent, you know, what female directors do you like to work with? And, you know, what would you like to say to your audience? You know, how, how do you want the word, the ladies in, you know? And so, yeah, I think, you know, that was something very different and, and little scandal, us women.

Yes. I’ve interviewed everybody from orotic authors, like Laurell K Hamilton, you know, to film directors like Erica lust. I recently interviewed the legendary high of patiently. Who’s a good friend of mine. And a lot of people wondering what happened to her and she’s actually a very, she’s no longer in the adult, but she has a native string kind of like a self motivation program. And, you know, she is really into wellness and healing and she looks exactly like she did when she makes movies, when she made her movies not changed a bit.

And, and I’m going to be Dr. Amy codel and yes,

Speaker 1 (23m 38s): That’s awesome. Did you ever, you were speaking of male talent. Did you enter ever interview porno Dan?

Speaker 2 (23m 45s): No, I haven’t.

Speaker 1 (23m 47s): Oh, he’s awesome. He’s been on, he’s been on my podcast and he’s fantastic and I believe very respectful to women. So yes, yes. That’s my, my perception, not that I watched much of his content, but knowing the guy. Yeah. I know he’s a, and he’s a wonderful person. So how do you hope to bridge the gap between porn and erotica?

Speaker 2 (24m 14s): Well, you know, I would like to see more filmed adaptions of erotic stories and novels. And I have seen a little bit of that in the work of like for Adam and Eve, you know, like with the K brand, you know, and Selena KIPP, interestingly enough, Selena kit was a Playgirl posse girl. She was the Playgirl fan back on the day, you know?

Yes, yes. And I know that at sure. You know, we have some wonderful Radek authors and yeah. So what I would like, I would like to see more filmed adaptions, our Veronica, and, you know, also I would just like to see, you know, more of like a literary bench and some of the films, you know, more of a story and more unique and diverse and woman friendly stories.

Like, you know, I would love to see, I mean, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that there was this production by vivid, like yeah. Way back in the nineties called immortal desire. I believe it was Phillip Christian. It was starting Jerry pike and Sarah Jane Hamilton. And it was like, it was a time travel, historical romance. It was beautiful. It’s one of the most beautiful love stories I’ve ever seen on film. And it was a vivid production, you know, it was a vivid visuals production.

And so I’m thinking, you know, why don’t we see more of that today? You know, it’s like, I would love to go down.

Speaker 1 (25m 56s): I know I th I think there’s a few, there’s a few independent producers who do that type of thing. Junk productions is one. And I think that you’re starting to see more of it. So

Speaker 2 (26m 12s): Yes, yes, yes. Another thing I would like to see is a, in terms of, you know, some of the mail, I like going back to that, the male talent to be more showcased for the female view, you know, because I know that we did that with Playgirl where they would have the men’s names first and that they would have the, the focus on the men and there, and also with the impulse, which a Lily had afterglow was actually back some of the impulse titles I’m very excited about, but yeah, I mean that, that’s something we really need more of, I believe.

And so I can watch it, but

Speaker 1 (26m 57s): For

Speaker 2 (26m 57s): The ladies out there just more showcased titles with the women, more focused on the men.

Speaker 1 (27m 4s): Absolutely. So now you said you’re particularly interested in giving women more of a voice in the industry. In what way is that?

Speaker 2 (27m 14s): Yes. Well, I really want to hear more of what women want. I want to hear more from female audience members as to what they like in particular, I would love to see more writers and critics, and of course, more directors and producers. And I also would like to hear more of a voice in terms of obviously safety and consent onset, you know, because when we consider the fact that, you know, it seems like there are certain people that are discussed that will say, well, you know, he doesn’t treat the women well, or he did the boom.

The guy just keeps working on the industry year after year after year. And, you know, it seems like with the me too movement, it has infiltrated the industry a little bit, but not that much. It seems like, you know, no, absolutely you’re right. You’re right. Because, you know, we’ll hear accusations, we’ll hear detailed stories, similar stories from a lot of women that if it was any other industry, he’d be turned out on his ear, you know, by now, you know, but it seems like an adult.

Yes, that’s right. That’s right. And you know, it just, it’s just barely grazing the surface. And I just want to get to a point where every woman can feel comfortable and safe onset and that there’s more advocacy. And then if something goes wrong, but they have somebody to turn to and that they feel like they have agency. They don’t just feel like, well, gosh, I’m not going to get my rent paid if I don’t go along with this.

So I’ll just say I had a good experience. That’s got gotta stop. You know, ultimately the most important voice to me is to ensure safety and consent.

Speaker 1 (29m 16s): So Megan, what’s your idea of the perfect women’s porn.

Speaker 2 (29m 22s): I believe that it is a production in which the woman’s pleasure and comfort are emphasized. I believe that it is something and which of the attractiveness of the male stars is emphasized and let you actually see them. I know that coral and Juul, you know, she had a brilliant quote. She was like, well, sometimes we’re up there. You can’t tell what we’re F you know, we don’t know what word, you know, you can’t even see the men or, you know, and so to me, it would be something that has a good story of that has some romance and powered woman, beautiful man, and something that a woman, you know, will want to return just like she might pick up her favorite romance novel again.

And again, this is a movie that she will want to watch again and again, and that she can think about and, and smile, you know, after she’s seen it

Speaker 1 (30m 28s): Makes sense. So what concerns do you have about modern porn?

Speaker 2 (30m 35s): Again, I’m concerned about the extreme roughness. I’m concerned about the prevalence of roughness, even in mainstream titles, sometimes with no warning of the content, you know, I’m concerned about onset conditions and you know, that definitely I do have a lot of concerns. And other than that also, you know, I would love to, it seemed like we had almost like a Renaissance when I think about the work of everyone from, you know, candida Royale, you know, to even some of the male directors like Michael Nan, you know, I mean, it seemed like for a while, they were really producing these just almost like masterpieces of adult, you know, am I know that that is for journey.

You know, I know that you do see some very, like with the protections of Angie, Roundtree, and Shaw and all the people that we’ve mentioned. And of course, with the Cayden cross, you know, with the deeper, you know, and Vixen, you know, I realized that that is returning, you know, but because to me, that’s, what’s sexy, you know, to me, it’s not just about seeing a bunch of bodies, you know, kind of going at each other. To me, it’s more like the style and with glamour Lily, I really like,

Speaker 1 (32m 8s): I agree. It would be nice to see. It would definitely be nice to see how do you hope to build more of a network among women and porn?

Speaker 2 (32m 18s): Well, you know, to me, it’s something that I’m very excited about and it’s just like I was discussing on the phone with Angie Roundtree the other day. It’s almost like we’re building a fortress, you know, in terms of when I see more and more women that are getting active. And when from a personal standpoint, when I’m able to, when I see collaborations have been formed and when I can say, okay, you know, I have a friend who is really interested in writing, she should get hooked up with this director.

Or I have a friend who, you know, has a concern. I should get her hooked up with someone who will listen, you know, to that concern. And, you know, I can tell that with the directors that I’ve talked to with the actresses and the writers and the content creators, we are just film, we’re forming more of a network and I can just see our strength rising in numbers. And for me, I would love to see, I mean, I know that Angie has ethical porn, you know, I definitely want to do more work in that area.

Also, I would love to bring back feminist for free expression, the pink ladies. I know that the higher patient, she sent me an honorary pink ladies button online and, you know, just more advocacy and just more of a network. I mean, I love it when, like my friend Holly, you know, who does the parties by Bella’s, you know, she was looking for some models to do, you know, documentaries about.

And so I got her on an email chain, you know, with Lily and porcelain, and I’m like, Hey, sister, friends, come here circle, you know, like Holly needs, Holly need some talent, you know, to showcase and her new documentary series. And so immediately willing for we’re like, yes, we’d love to participate. You know? And so

Speaker 1 (34m 36s): It’s

Speaker 2 (34m 36s): About partnerships.

Speaker 1 (34m 37s): Those two are those two, definitely those two, sorry, those two, we seem to have a delay. Those two, those two, definitely our, our doers big time coral and, and Lilly.

Speaker 2 (34m 51s): Yes, yes, absolutely. And delightful and yeah. You know, and we’re referring, like, if I am talking to like, you know, Rebecca Vanguard or Avery Jane, you know, just about making it a little, you know, like just about making connections, making things happen. Oh, I know this lady is doing this. And I was that, you know, to me, it’s a network. And also when I posted on my phone, the sexpert Twitter, you know, about during award season with Angie got a big expos nomination and Balisa house, of course, fantastic.

Jackie St. James, they were getting all these nominations and after Glenn, you know, was getting nominations for, and also foreplay and go winters, you know, all of these women, you know, scoring big nominations, you know, for the sites. And I just printed and flush erotica, you know, Stacey while. And so I just did a list of that in one tweet. And I said, the sisterhood is strong and that’s what it’s all about.

Speaker 1 (35m 60s): You sound like, you sound like the, you definitely sound like the ringleader there.

Speaker 2 (36m 5s): Oh, thank you. I will be honored, honored to think. So I tell you, and that’s why I’m here. And yeah, that’s what I try, you know, just to bring everybody together, you know, and there’s always strength in numbers. And so yes, I always say to the revolution is live.

Speaker 1 (36m 29s): Indeed, indeed. So, so tell us about some of your other non adult projects.

Speaker 2 (36m 36s): Yes. Well, you know, I do quite a bit of journalism, you know, I do quite a bit of journalistic writing. I do a lot of feminist advocacy. I’ve also been a column host for legendary women magazine. And I’m the co-host of the lavender ladies podcast with my friend Margaret Bates. And so yes, I do a lot of feminist advocates of advocacy, especially on behalf of, you know, rape and domestic violence survivors.

And the email I write about issues, you know, I have some political causes and I actually got a certificate of appreciation from a statewide domestic violence awareness board and it’s sexual assault for it, for some of my coverage. And so, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m very active in journalism advocacy, also marketing writing, you know, I do quite a bit of like in terms of product descriptions, press releases, you know, things like that.

And I also, I write some sweet romance to, you know, because I always wanted to write something that my family could read when my parents were still alive, that they could read, you know, with my nephews and nieces, my, you know, that I just really felt like, you know, I wanted them to be able to enjoy some of my work, you know, and they would put it on their brief, you know, put it on their bookcase, you know?

So,

Speaker 1 (38m 22s): Yeah. So you’re, yeah. You don’t want your family in Indiana reading too much of the hot sticky stuff, I guess. Huh?

Speaker 2 (38m 30s): No, I tell you, it was funny for Christmas for one year. I actually gave my mom a copy of a sweet romance book of what I had written and thank God I actually looked at it on Christmas Eve before I wrapped it, because there was a title page, you know, they’ll have the title of the book and limits and to read the other titles by Megan Hussey. And then it had all these body books that I had written.

I saw that. And I swear, I just ripped out with title.

Speaker 1 (39m 12s): Yeah. We don’t win a one to, we don’t want mom from Indiana having a heart attack.

Speaker 2 (39m 17s): No, no, I didn’t want to be responsible.

Speaker 1 (39m 22s): Exactly. So what are your future plans for a sexpert.com?

Speaker 2 (39m 29s): Well, actually today I got the very kind invitation from Dr. Ava Cadelle herself to actually participate in her love biology university. And through my studies there, I will be able to become a certified sex coach and also to teach biology and also maybe to do some media, you know, for that.

And again, you know, what I really want to emphasize through there is also, you know, of course, you know, helping women who maybe have trouble with their sexuality of, because of past trauma or abuse and also in general, just helping women to enjoy in general, to not be ashamed, you know, and to enjoy their sexuality more in whatever way they choose, you know, if they want to write if they want to perform or if they just want to enjoy a good porno, you know, the, and also I want to give them lots of, I’m actually working on a directory of fem porn, you know, to let ladies know about these titles.

And so I figure the Laos, of course eventually. And the, yeah, so she’s very kindly invited me to come aboard and I’m honored. And so, yes, that’s an exclusive, cause I just found out a few hours ago that I’d be doing this.

Speaker 1 (41m 0s): Fantastic. Well, congratulations. So, so how can people find you? How can people find you online?

Speaker 2 (41m 7s): Yes. Well, you can see my work@sexfora.com. You can see my work that S S S h.com. You know, you can, I have a website for my erotic writing and now my titles are available on Amazon. You can also find me@httpcolondoubleslashgoldenmusedottripod.com.

And also most of my titles these days are available through satin romance, which is a division of Milan or Milan publications. And then of course also I have some, you know, I have some filmed, well, you know, the works that I have written the screenplays for at blush erotica. And I’m also going to be doing some erotic writing for their site as well, because they have a whole thing, you know, for a writer writing

Speaker 1 (42m 9s): Fabulous. Well, Megan, I’d really like to thank you for being our guests today and adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 19s): Oh, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for this opportunity, Bruce. It’s been a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (42m 24s): Thank you. The pleasure was all mine. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable. For one, you decide to sell it later. Let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or trending down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area.

I’ve also seen valuations of one time. If the profit is taking a nosedive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and review traffic are the most valuable tube. Traffic, the least valuable is the traffic reliable and sustainable. What is the traffic history?

In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as to profit and the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How hold is the website? Is the website at.com or something else? Dot com is still king. How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost.

How much would it cost to build a site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it, and how much time would be involved? What’s the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week, how to buy a website and next week we’ll be speaking with therapist team, Stephanie and Fox of Evolve Your Intimacy. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Megan Hussey.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Brittany Wilson of the Dungeon Store.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a network of 22 growing affiliate sites. These include adult and affiliate review sites and various topless. The network has grown in traffic and income over time. This is due to the quality of the networks, SEO and other optimization. The network brings in large amounts of sign-ups through pay per sale and revenue share programs. There are also many, two tier affiliate signups generating income, monthly.

The best paying affiliate program accounts are included in the sale. So the buyer won’t have to change all the tracking. The seller will be available to the buyer with some ideas on how to further generate extra revenue, that he did not have a chance to implement himself and to train the new owner on the operation of the sites. Everything is there to get things ready for the new owner to come in and make a lot more money than is currently being made. Since the current owner has moved on to other ventures, only $474,000.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today, the adult side broker talk is Brittany Wilson of the dungeon store. Brittany, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 3 (2m 38s): Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (2m 40s): It’s a pleasure. Now, Brittany is a second generation pleasure products. Professional try saying that three times with a passion for education, knowledge and creation. Wilson became shipping products for her family business, helping prepare for shows and became friends with associates in the business, building a foundation of professional relationships for years to come crafts people in the leather community. Aren’t just your peers, but they close friends and family. When the family brand violet one store rebranded as the dungeon store, Wilson took the reins of social media and started new campaigns.

When the dungeon store acquired split peaches, silicone toys, Wilson took it upon herself to learn how to mix and pour the platinum safe dildos and toys. She would go on to be the face of the business and is often found working the dungeon store booth at leather BDSM and lifestyle events across the United States. She’s a marketing and business professional with dedication above and beyond the nine to five work week. And that’s proven by the fact it’s 9:00 PM where she is now. The Dundrum store is a female owned and operated pleasure products, business priding itself on a curated collection of BDSM gearing, kinky toys, mostly sourced and created by fetish professionals in the United States.

Most of the floggers violent wand, associates, accessories, and paddles are made by hand by experienced crafts people in the BDSM scene. And I’m sorry, Brittany. That’s all the time we have today. So How did the dungeon store gets started?

Speaker 3 (4m 15s): But Dennis story got started as violet Juan store and violet long store got started by my mother, actually her and her business partner saw, you know, a market gap. They saw this like fetish toy that wasn’t getting. I don’t know, it wasn’t, it wasn’t getting the attention and the claim that they felt that it deserved. And her business partner had a bit of a background in electrical understanding and electric engineering, which is why we hand-make all of our accessories.

In-house because you do need to have an understanding of electric electricity and how violet ones work and how current works to make them safely. And so they stepped into that market space and it did not take very long for, you know, expansion expansion happens in business. And so it was violet lawns and then it was violent lawns and floggers, and it was by once floggers and paddles and violent ones. Foggers paddles and glass toys, violent ones, paddles floggers glass toys and sounds and medical.

And now we really just stay on the spectrum of mild to wild. And it’s a fun phrase, but I mean, that, that was seven. I, you know, I’ve given you 17 years in a soundbite, so

Speaker 2 (5m 33s): Very good. That’s how we like it. Okay. So, okay. I’m ignorant. Okay. I really don’t know anything about the BDSM lifestyle or anything like that, personally. What is, what is a violent one?

Speaker 3 (5m 48s): So I’m going to go ahead and make a small correction. A violet. We sell violet like the color walls. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (5m 53s): Yeah. I say that sometimes it comes out violent. I’m sorry.

Speaker 3 (5m 57s): That’s all good. It’s all good. It’s a common misconception. That’s a common mistake. I only correct it cause it makes people more fearful of, and I am trying to sell a fantasy, not a nightmare, violent ones use static electricity to create an arcane spark, which some people find pleasurable in their bedroom activities the way it’s. So it’s a, it’s a service current. You, if you’ve ever like pulled a muscle in your back, you may have used a tens unit where you put the pads on and there’s a sub muscular current that goes back and forth across the pads, which alleviates like muscle pain, joint pain, right.

A violet wand is a service current. So it’s on top of your skin. It’s done far more tactilely.

Speaker 2 (6m 44s): Okay.

Speaker 3 (6m 46s): And it’s funny, it gets this reputation as being kind of like an edge play toy gets this reputation as being violent and, and intense And that’s, and that’s why I like to correct people. Cause I am trying to, you know, we’re trying to break stigmas in the year of our Lord 2022, we’re breaking stigmas, but it’s mostly a sensation toy. Of course you can, you can use it for, to light fire ones and for fireplace and you can use it for prominent skin brands, if you are so inclined.

And I sell the things to do those things, don’t get me wrong, but you can also use it for more intense tickling for sensual massages. You can use it in so many other ways. It really is one of the most versatile BDSM, a Kusama that, that you can, that you can own.

Speaker 2 (7m 33s): Hmm. What, what percentage of your businesses is a violent wants?

Speaker 3 (7m 39s): It varies year over year. I find that it’s, it’s really kind of a boom and a bus cycle because there will come a point at events that we’ve done for years and years for the record, we are mostly an events based business or we’re pre COVID. Now we’re, you know, events online, wholesale, whatever, but pre COVID, what could, what would happen is it would be a top seller like an absolute 77 show. 90% of the show event would be violet won sales, but enough years of the same event with that, you hit a saturation point and then it’s the accessories.

And then enough new people show up at that event that it goes back to being 70%, 90%. And it’s just kind of this endless cycle. As people continue to get into BDSM, as people continue to be exposed, it’s just always going to be a, it’s always going to be a new thing or a thing that people are adding to.

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): Got it. Got it. So how did you get involved in the company?

Speaker 3 (8m 37s): Well, I don’t know if you’ve ever had a parent own a small business, but I swear to God it’s like living in the middle ages where people have children to work the farm. So I stopped. I started

Speaker 2 (8m 49s): Doing

Speaker 3 (8m 52s): Better. It’s better than tilling the land. I got to tell you,

Speaker 2 (8m 55s): I will take

Speaker 3 (8m 56s): Counting boxes over till the earth.

Speaker 2 (8m 59s): No kidding.

Speaker 3 (9m 2s): So when I was of the age of consent, the majority, you know, for, for legal reasons, I would help with the back office stuff. I helped with inventory reconciliation on like orders that she ever, that my mother received. I helped pack shows. I helped load shows into cars to be driven or pack the boxes to be shipped. I helped unload all of those things like I’d started with back office stuff,

Speaker 2 (9m 32s): Manual labor, in other words.

Speaker 3 (9m 34s): Exactly, exactly. And the thing of it is you do enough of the, like I called it bitch work, but sure. We can say manual labor.

Speaker 2 (9m 41s): Of course we can say, we can say anything we want on his podcast for as long as we want it. Okay. Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (9m 49s): And you do bitch work long enough. I wanted to go to events. I wanted to go do the fun part because I’m doing the grueling stuff. I want to go like play dress up and talk to strangers and do the fun stuff. And so once I was of the age where that is acceptable, you know, and not a lawsuit I did and I fell in love with it entirely. I, I love what I do. I think I’m very fortunate that I got to fall in love with my job at 18 years old.

Speaker 2 (10m 17s): That’s awesome. Yeah. I can hear the passion. I could definitely hear the passion. Talk about the evolution and he would know about this cause your mom was in the business before. Talk about the evolution of the pleasure products industry as it relates to BDSM products.

Speaker 3 (10m 34s): Well, it’s, it’s pretty funny because this has been a really interesting time starting, I would say 10 years ago, because for a really long time, the BDSM world existed on the fringes. It was the underground. You couldn’t find it with a map, right? You had to know somebody who knew somebody, five people had to vouch for you. There was a very extensive vetting process because the biggest fear they did the word for it then was being outed.

And now we know it as doxing, but it’s the same fear that your private life will cease to be private and through the rise of acceptance and reducing a state bus, but also low as I am to say this through the popularity of 50 shades of gray, the framework in which we have, these conversations has changed now 50 shades of gray created a very interesting kind of circumstance, right?

Because you had a lot of people who definitely had limited scope interest of getting involved in BDSM, but who also had been sold a fantasy and had a lot of interest in buying that fantasy. Now the fantasy by the way is not that you get tied up and fucked. The fantasy is that a rich man steals you away from your problems. You don’t have to be having kinky sex to one, a rich man to steal you away from your problems.

Speaker 2 (12m 2s): This is true.

Speaker 3 (12m 3s): Like that’s not who, who wouldn’t want that, but because you know, those fantasies it’s the same.

Speaker 2 (12m 9s): Okay. I’m S I’m straight and I wouldn’t mind myself. So going on.

Speaker 3 (12m 12s): Yeah, no. I mean, literally, I don’t know a single person, if I was a rich man, we’ll steal you away from your problems would be like, no, I like problems. No, you fucking don’t don’t lie. Like they don’t. And there’s not a lot of problems that like more money could not at the very least alleviate stress of. So, yeah, but it created this interesting, like influx of new people who just had so many questions and also so little interests, same time. Interesting. And so it was really the, the, the growth of the more vanilla products being part of the more mainstream conversation, like sure.

Vibrators and dildos have been around literally since the Dawn of creation, but you’ve got like Gwenyth Paltrow making crystal dildos on a Netflix show. Like you didn’t, you weren’t going to have that before 50 shades of gray that wasn’t going to be,

Speaker 2 (13m 6s): You know, I’d say, I’d say, I’d say Glen with is a joke, except she makes too much money to be a joke. So anyway, go ahead. Yes.

Speaker 3 (13m 12s): She’s laughing at her own jokes all the way to the bank, her nice Swiss bank accounts, laughing

Speaker 2 (13m 16s): At the jokes.

Speaker 3 (13m 19s): No, literally. So it’s been an interesting evolution because with an influx of those people, there’ve been an influx of products for those people, but at the same time, it’s created the opportunity for more R and D on the higher end for the pre-existing community. And so it’s, anytime you have an influx of new people to a community, it’s an opportunity for that community. Even if those people are temporary tourists and voyeurs, it’s still an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (13m 48s): So suffice to say suffice, to say that the 50 shades of gray helped your industry.

Speaker 3 (13m 56s): I was going to help the industry as a whole overall, I would say it had an overall net positive benefit to the industry as a whole. I also think in a, in outside of the spectrum of products for a minute, just the spectrum of, of people, it really helped start conversations about negotiation and consent outside of the BDSM community, Which is really important because we take that very seriously. And it it’s a, it’s a refreshing change of pace, right?

Like I, I am a millennial woman. I got to tell you that no one was talking about negotiation and consent. When I was in high school, taking sex ed, that was not a conversation that anyone was telling us we’re supposed to be having. And now that’s, that’s part of that’s part of sex. Ed. That’s a core fundamental is, Hey, we have to talk about what we’re going to do. We have to make sure that everybody’s on the same page. The definition of consent has changed.

Speaker 2 (14m 51s): Definition

Speaker 3 (14m 52s): Of consent used to be, she didn’t scream. No. And now the definition of consent is enthusiastic. Verbal affirmation.

Speaker 2 (15m 0s): That’s a totally

Speaker 3 (15m 1s): Different

Speaker 2 (15m 1s): And needless to stay, say, as a boomer, it wasn’t in my sex ed either.

Speaker 3 (15m 6s): I don’t know for sure you guys had sex ed. Cause I got to tell you the joke I always make. Cause our grandmothers learned sex ed from their boyfriend, their husbands, which is why our mothers got it in school, which is why we now have to learn BDSM from our friends.

Speaker 2 (15m 19s): I love it. I love it. So what items does the dungeon store distribute as opposed to selling directly to the consumer?

Speaker 3 (15m 29s): A lot of the stuff we distribute is also available on our website and you just won’t find it at events. But the biggest thing I can think of is we have a very robust like puppy play line that is available on our website. It just doesn’t get picked up for purchase right off often there, but we wholesale it.

Speaker 2 (15m 48s): Okay. You called it. You called it. You called it puppy play line.

Speaker 3 (15m 52s): Yeah. Puppy play. So

Speaker 2 (15m 55s): This has nothing to do with dogs obviously, right?

Speaker 3 (15m 58s): No that’s BS. You don’t do that. Animals and children cannot give informed consent.

Speaker 2 (16m 4s): No, I, I knew that. I knew, I knew that I knew the answer to that, but it was a good joke. So anyway,

Speaker 3 (16m 9s): It’s a great joke. It’s a great joke. Unfortunately, I ha I did want to do an interview with someone who proceeded to Ben talk about beastiality. So I’ve got to be really quick.

Speaker 2 (16m 18s): Yeah, I would. Yeah. I would not talk to anyone like that for sure.

Speaker 3 (16m 24s): No, no, it was not. It was not ideal. But are you familiar with puppy play at all? Do you want me to

Speaker 2 (16m 31s): Please explain?

Speaker 3 (16m 32s): So puppy play is very popular in the gay community. However, there is nothing that precludes everyone else from participating. And there are puppies. There are pups across the entire spectrum of LGBTQ and BDSM. And poppy play is people who feel a strong affinity towards being a dog. And there’s different breeds. Some identify as a golden retriever, some identify as Labradors, some identify as German shepherds, great Danes, pugs, corgis.

What have you? And you wear it. You wear a hood shaped like a dog said, you wear a tail which can either a fixed to your belt or be part of a plug. You have myths on your front, on your hands that turn them into effectively paws, very often kneepads. And you go into pubs, pup, Headspace, which is like subspace. So you’re, it’s very, you know, you’re a dog. You’re not in charge.

It’s a variation of subspace and there’s a lot of puppy players have packs. So there’s an alpha and a beta and so on and so forth. I don’t know all the Greek letters of PacLife. I only know my Greek letters for COVID variations. I don’t know them

Speaker 2 (17m 51s): For

Speaker 3 (17m 52s): Personality types. And it’s, it’s a very, it’s a, it’s a fun community. Honestly. I

Speaker 2 (17m 58s): Love

Speaker 3 (17m 59s): Oh, there, oh, they’re a trip. Oh, they’re the best. They are the best

Speaker 2 (18m 3s): I, because

Speaker 3 (18m 3s): Who doesn’t love dogs. Right? Like they are people

Speaker 2 (18m 6s): I told you before the interview, I have six and a, I just saw a picture of you with a dog. So there you go. We love dogs.

Speaker 3 (18m 13s): Exactly. So people who are like dogs, they are, they are loving, loyal, helpful. They’re ideal. They’re awesome. Fucking level. But so we don’t, we don’t sell a lot of pop stuff on the website just because percentage wise it doesn’t, it is a small community, but we sell a lot of it in distribution. We sell more sounds in distribution. Interestingly enough, then we sell on the website or at events. Are you familiar with sounds,

Speaker 2 (18m 41s): You’re going to have to educate me on everything.

Speaker 3 (18m 43s): Okie dokie sounds are for penis urethral, insertion.

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): Ah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. How has the market for violent? See, I did the violent again. Violet ones evolved.

Speaker 3 (19m 1s): I would say it’s grown. It’s also interestingly enough. So it’s grown by leaps and bounds and part of why it has grown in leaps and bounds is because there are two types of violet ones. However, until that 10 to 20 years ago, there was only one type. So there was one type a, which has been, which will be called Tesla, electromechanical, wax core wax, capacitor, a traditional old style.

What have you? And then 10 to 20 years ago, I’m a little shaky on the exact year, just by virtue of being a minor. When this happened there S state version came on the scene and that cut the price somewhere between in half and by two thirds.

Speaker 2 (19m 55s): Wow. So what’s the, so what’s the difference between these two products

Speaker 3 (20m 0s): Straight out now, intensity, that being said, there are a lot of solid states on the market. You can get one from Amazon for a hundred dollars and then you have a hundred dollar thing. Bear in mind, it’s it’s counterpart is like $600. So this is kind of one of those moments where you get exactly what you paid for. And the thing is yes. So the way that their internal mechanisms work is different.

Electromechanical is a mechanical device. It has moving internal parts. It’s why it has a much higher output. Solid state is in a solid state. I don’t know how much you know about computers, but it’s like a solid drive. So

Speaker 2 (20m 43s): I know, I do know that. Yes.

Speaker 3 (20m 47s): So

Speaker 2 (20m 48s): I noticed something,

Speaker 3 (20m 49s): I believe. I think, you know, a lot of things,

Speaker 2 (20m 52s): To be honest

Speaker 3 (20m 53s): At the very least the best place to find dogs in Thailand, it turns out your front door. So solid state is in a solid state. It’s a much simpler device. Now it’s out and out. Raw output is less than electromechanical. I will not lie to you about that. Right? That being said, I sell a solid state one. That’s powerful enough to light a firewall or permanently brand someone’s skin. And I don’t know what people are doing that is more powerful than that, but I’m not entirely sure I should be helping to facilitate it at a certain time.

Speaker 2 (21m 25s): You are, you are correct. You are correct. Well, I’m sure there’s lots of terms and conditions on the website. You must, I’m sure you I’m sure you’ve got wonderful lawyers. How long have solid state lawns been around and what should retailers be looking for when buying them for their store?

Speaker 3 (21m 44s): Like I said, they’ve been around 10 to 20 years. I’m a little, I’m a little shaky on that. Exact, I want to say about 15, but that’s really just splitting the difference. I would say they got good in the last 12 years. I would say the first two years, they weren’t that good. They weren’t worth buying, but in the last 12, I would say they’ve gotten really good. And I think what you should look for is first of all, I think that for something like a violet wand, what retailers should look for is that the sales person knows what they’re talking about.

If they can’t tell you what makes theirselves say on different, if they can’t quote some specs, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t trust that person. And I think that that applies to the sale of all things. Not for nothing for solid state. You should look for as a, as a retailer, you should be looking for ones that they guarantee what’s called the call it size, which is where the accessories fit into the device.

Speaker 2 (22m 46s): Okay.

Speaker 3 (22m 47s): Because hypothetic, most solid states come with, it’s a universal call. It, there are a couple that don’t have the same college. If your college is out of variation with everybody, else’s, you’re going to have a problem. If you try to wholesale, if you try to distribute other accessories, you’re going to end up jammed up on, well, we sell this device and these accessories for this device, but they don’t fit this device.

Speaker 2 (23m 12s): None of them, none of them fit together.

Speaker 3 (23m 14s): Right. Right. So here are multiple pieces from different jigsaw puzzles, best of luck.

Speaker 2 (23m 21s): Have a nice time doing the puzzle,

Speaker 3 (23m 23s): Right. Would that be cash or card? Like that’s not, not an ideal circumstance to find yourself in.

Speaker 2 (23m 31s): No, exactly.

Speaker 3 (23m 33s): So that would be what I would look for.

Speaker 2 (23m 35s): Okay. Now talking about your, your violet lawn, et cetera, right? This time, your violet wallet, accessories, what makes these different from what would be found online? Well, let’s just say at, at Amazon or other stores and what dispart gapping for safety mean,

Speaker 3 (23m 54s): I’m so happy you asked about spar. So first of all, before we get into spark optics, spark gabbing for safety, what makes our accessories different and low? The might’ve say better, but if the shoe fits is we have, what’s called a dual purpose handle, which means that all of our accessories that fit in the wand can also be used outside of the wand with what’s called a body contact cable, no body contact cable allowed.

I was about to tell, I wasn’t even gonna ask this time

Speaker 2 (24m 29s): Because you knew I had no idea didn’t you?

Speaker 3 (24m 31s): Yep. I’ve gotten I’ve, I’ve gotten the memo. I understand where we’re

Speaker 2 (24m 34s): At

Speaker 3 (24m 36s): Body contact cable fits in the wand and then attaches to either the top or the bottom. And it allows for skin to skin shocking because it electrifies, whoever is strapped to the, to the wand. So it means that everywhere from the tip of your nose to the tips of your toes is conductive, which also means anything metal that you pick up and touch will also conduct electricity.

Speaker 2 (25m 2s): Okay.

Speaker 3 (25m 3s): So our dual purpose handles, you can hold in your hand and use that way opposed to just fitting in the wand and how their spark app ties directly into that. You want a spark app for safety to make sure that the grounding is secure to make sure that the, to make sure that there’s not going to be errant electricity cause of surprise, Aron electricity is dangerous.

Speaker 2 (25m 32s): Yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course. I do know enough about electricity to know that, and I know that you need a ground. So how do you, how do you get in a situation where there’s grounding

Speaker 3 (25m 44s): By virtue of being a surface current? And so by virtue of being a service current, the one that is basically self grounding.

Speaker 2 (25m 51s): Oh, that’s good. That’s good. That’s, that’s definitely safe.

Speaker 3 (25m 55s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (25m 56s): That’s the idea.

Speaker 3 (25m 58s): Cause it’s, cause it’s S it’s all based on complete completion of a circuit. So when you are the conductor and you touch something metal, and then you use that metal thing to talk to someone else, like you’ve completed the circuit and that’s how it goes.

Speaker 2 (26m 11s): Okay. Okay, man, you need an advanced degree in electronics to do your job. So how far away should electronics like cell phones, tablets, and computers be from a violet lawn when shooting a video. And is this something that’s practical for camming or shooting clips?

Speaker 3 (26m 31s): I have definitely known people to shoot clips of violet wands. And I got to tell you sometimes I think that they did it by sacrificing a Virgin goat at the nexus of a full moon in terms of safety for electronics. So long as you don’t shock any electronics directly, you’re going to be fine. I wear a watch every day in my life that I do my job. I could, I attach a body contact, able to the same arm that the smartwatch is on. I’ve never had a problem.

My phone is normally in my pocket or clip to my skirt. You want to make sure that you don’t shock any electric, any electronic device directly? Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27m 11s): Probably be a really good idea.

Speaker 3 (27m 13s): I will also, oh, real quick, real quick. Cause we, we, we kind of glossed over this, but I do want to give a little safety warning on violet ones. You cannot use them safely. If you have a pacemaker defibrillator, cochlear implant or insulin pump, because all of those things

Speaker 2 (27m 33s): Will

Speaker 3 (27m 33s): Have their little computer shorted out. Once you get shocked.

Speaker 2 (27m 37s): Yeah. You don’t want to have a, have a pacemaker and have it get shorted out. That’s not

Speaker 3 (27m 42s): Good.

Speaker 2 (27m 44s): I’m not that I’m not that old yet. So that’s a good thing. I know you don’t have to be

Speaker 3 (27m 50s): Old.

Speaker 2 (27m 51s): Yeah, I know. Well, let’s hope. Let’s hope. My dear, I just, just celebrated 64 in October. So a

Speaker 3 (27m 59s): Happy belated.

Speaker 2 (28m 0s): Thank you. Yeah. I’ve got a big one coming up in 2022 for sure. We’ve we’ve noticed you’ve got quite a bit of rope on your site and you’ve focused on rope bondage for shows like for all ICAN and tethered together. How hard is it to get started with Shibari? And as it’s something a performer can do solo on cam,

Speaker 3 (28m 22s): How hard is it to get started with Jabari so long as you have nimble and dextrous fingers, anyone can get into Shibari and patients. Oh, you have to have patience. You got to have

Speaker 2 (28m 33s): Patience.

Speaker 3 (28m 36s): You’ve got to have patience because, eh, but I will say it is one.

Speaker 2 (28m 39s): Yeah. That counts me out to both the fingers and the patient’s counseling.

Speaker 3 (28m 43s): I always

Speaker 2 (28m 47s): Know. And I always tell, I always, I always, I always tell people I’m not a doctor. I don’t need patients. So anyway,

Speaker 3 (28m 53s): Ooh, I like that. I’m going to use that.

Speaker 2 (28m 56s): You, you, you have my, you have my permission to use it

Speaker 3 (28m 59s): Much obliged Sarah, much obliged. So Shibari is, it’s not hard to get into. You just need to study is what it is. It is an art form that requires practice and study as all art forms do. As far as doing it alone, some of the best Shibari I’ve ever seen is self suspension. And in order to do self suspension, you need to know how to do self ties.

Speaker 2 (29m 24s): Sure. You know, I, the first, the first shoot that I ever witnessed was at kink and man, that’s, that’s really interesting. The kind of stuff they do there.

Speaker 3 (29m 39s): Oh, I’m sure.

Speaker 2 (29m 40s): Yeah. Yeah. They did a, they did a live shoot at the, at a party way back when, when, why not had their San Francisco party, we’re talking probably I would say it’s 15 years or so ago. It’s about the time I met my wife because my wife was with me and this poor type, this poor innocent Thai girl is, is, is that this event with me. And she had never seen a live shoot either. And I’m sure I’m sure that got her attention for sure.

Speaker 3 (30m 13s): Ah, that’s how you want to re well, we know you didn’t win her over with your nimble fingers.

Speaker 2 (30m 17s): Well, that damn sure. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I’ll accept that. I’ll accept that. I’ll accept that. What rope do you recommend performers start with and what books do you recommend for bondage?

Speaker 3 (30m 32s): I recommend that everybody starts with MFP because it ties easy. It’s synthetic. So it’s great. Once you hit suspension, it is a very forgiving rope. If you make mistakes while you’re learning.

Speaker 2 (30m 50s): Okay.

Speaker 3 (30m 51s): So I, I think that everyone should start with things that are forgiving. And as far as books go, there’s the two naughty boys books, which are phenomenal too naughty boy, showing you the ropes do not always back on the ropes. And then there’s also Lee Harrington’s books, Shibari you can use and more Shamara you can use. I think that those four books, really some of everything you need to go from an absolute, no nothing. It’s my first day.

How do I tie like a clove hitch basically to pro very proficient clove hitches, the type of night you tie when you’re camping.

Speaker 2 (31m 34s): Ah, see, I’m not one, see, I don’t know camping either. So definitely a Jewish American prince. So, so in, in, in event photos, we’ve seen some items that aren’t on the site like insertable, violet, wand, toys, Shibari rings for suspension and wax play candles. And how does someone order those items from you online?

Speaker 3 (31m 58s): I would strongly recommend that if anyone sees something at an event or an event based picture that they want to order and is not on the site, just drop me an email sales up that I just started.com. There’s always a reason stuff. Isn’t on the site and it has a lot to do with what makes the most sense for some of the small manufacturers we work with. And I’ve got to respect everybody’s map agreements and I’ve, I’ve got to make it work for everybody. So there’s always a reason, but I can sell them to you. It’ll be a direct invoice.

It’ll be an email. I’m the same reputable business. I’m the same person, whether it’s an email in order event based sale. What have you

Speaker 2 (32m 38s): Hold on? Was the company been around by the way?

Speaker 3 (32m 40s): I want to say 19 years

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): As fantastic. That’s that’s quite a legacy.

Speaker 3 (32m 47s): Yes. Yes it is.

Speaker 2 (32m 49s): How involved is your mom in the business today?

Speaker 3 (32m 52s): Still very involved. She definitely runs the finances. Jeez. She’s very, she does the finances. She still does events. She still teaches classes on violet ones. She’s very involved. She just delegates very well.

Speaker 2 (33m 10s): Excellent. How many people in your team?

Speaker 3 (33m 14s): Probably about 15 to various degrees of involvement.

Speaker 2 (33m 20s): Okay. Okay. So tell us a bit about split peaches. How did you acquire the company and will it be expanding this year?

Speaker 3 (33m 29s): So as I said, pre COVID, we were mostly events based sales and then COVID happened. And I don’t know if you saw the news, but there was no such thing as an event of any kind anymore. So in an effort to pivot, we looked to expand and a platinum silicone Dell company that had preexisting wholesale contracts and a great online market space seemed like the way to go. And so that was, that was how we got there.

And it will be expanding in 2022. One of the things to look out for on this pizza site, we’re in the process of completely overhauling it. And we’re going to create a listing for the one-offs there’s of course the dildos that you can always get our rainbow unicorn horns, our bronze Riveters, our silver screw use always available, same colors. We offer everything through different densities, but it’s the same color regardless of the density. We’re also gonna create a listing for some of the more fun ones, the one-offs Hey, what does this color look like in this shape?

Oh, do we like that? Do we not? And so we’re going to really expand in that direction. We’re going to expand. We should have some new shapes out sometime in 2022, which will be, which I’m really excited about. It should be a really great growth potential for the business.

Speaker 2 (34m 48s): Fabulous. Now kinky.com did a nice piece regarding the adjustable strap on harnesses. Tell us a bit about it. And if it’s available for distribution,

Speaker 3 (34m 59s): It’s absolutely available for distribution, virtually everything is available for distribution. I promise. So the cool thing about this strap on harness, how familiar are you with strap-on harnesses?

Speaker 2 (35m 12s): I’m about as familiar as I am with everything else. Although I’ve seen strap on harnesses used before.

Speaker 3 (35m 19s): Okay. So most shop on harnesses have a buckle system. It’s like a belt, right? So you find the loop, that’s the closest to the right side or the, you know, and you put it through, you put the peg through the hole and that’s as close as you get to the right size. And it very often leads to slippage. It leads to poor positioning of both off physical harness in terms of where the weight is distributed on your hips and also where the actual dildo sits on your

Speaker 2 (35m 46s): Body.

Speaker 3 (35m 47s): This harness is designed to it’s. Everything is two D-rings. So it’s a hundred percent adjustable it’s designed to fit everybody instead of just the bodies where the belt is designed to fit. So every single, both, both thighs around the waist is all on 100% adjustable harness, which makes it a much more comfortable fit it’s made of a soft American leather. So it’s not as likely to shave. It’s got three different rings that are interchangeable for various size girth, still dose it’s phenomenally comfortable.

And the face plate behind the dildo is actually also interchangeable. So it comes in black, red, blue, purple, yellow, and orange.

Speaker 2 (36m 34s): Very good. Now you earlier mentioned penis plugs and those things you called sounds. Tell me a little more about how they’re used and are there any risks involved and are they just for penises as opposed to a female’s urethra?

Speaker 3 (36m 51s): So how they’re used with a lot of lube and slowly

Speaker 2 (36m 56s): I hope.

Speaker 3 (36m 57s): Yes. Yes, yes. And you want to always go slow in graduating sizes because there are sounds that come in size based kits and you just want to go very slowly as you increase the size. Yes. Risk factors. So long as everything’s sterile and you go slow and you make sure you’re being smart with your lubrication, fairly negligible as far as BDSM goes. And what was the I’m sorry, what was the third part of the question?

Speaker 2 (37m 27s): How about, are they just for penises or can women use them?

Speaker 3 (37m 31s): I have known women who I have known people with vaginas who have used them

Speaker 2 (37m 40s): Women as opposed to people with vaginas. Okay.

Speaker 3 (37m 43s): Inclusive language. I have no idea with vaginas. Who’ve used them. I generally tend to recommend them for, for use with a penis,

Speaker 2 (37m 53s): But I’m

Speaker 3 (37m 54s): Not

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): That’s, that’s why, that’s why, that’s why they call them the penis plugs. I think

Speaker 3 (37m 59s): I, I’m not the kink police. I’m not going to follow you home and make sure you’re using everything and the way that I think it should be used, it’s your body.

Speaker 2 (38m 6s): Wouldn’t

Speaker 3 (38m 6s): Like,

Speaker 2 (38m 9s): Honestly,

Speaker 3 (38m 9s): I have too many other jobs to also be the kink police and no one likes a narc.

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): Ah, you’re right. You’re right. So what products is your company looking to get out there for this year?

Speaker 3 (38m 20s): Right. I think for this year, what we’re really looking to do for the dungeon store is grow out. What’s called what we call our important collection.

Speaker 2 (38m 29s): Our time

Speaker 3 (38m 29s): Collection is all of the, one of a kind high, more high-end BDSM products. It’s the stuff that you only see at shows. It’s the one of a kind, floggers the one of a kind paddles. And I think we’re really looking to grow that out on the website so that even if you’re not someone who’s going to events for whatever reason, be it safety, be it finance, be it timing, scheduling what have you. You still have the opportunity to buy those things. From what I like to think is a trusted supplier from a real business that has real experience in this very real market space.

Speaker 2 (39m 5s): Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39m 7s): So

Speaker 2 (39m 8s): Makes perfect sense. Well, Hey Brittany, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we get a chance to do this again real soon.

Speaker 3 (39m 17s): Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (39m 19s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well has your content been protected from piracy and what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy take down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates? The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be.

What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site. Do you use a billing or affiliate software like gnats? What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day?

Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend a producer by the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your website? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale.

Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a nondisclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will, of course be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don’t know. Adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours. And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They will also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as the price and any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected.

We, those resources, of course, we’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Megan Hussey, the feminist sex,

Speaker 5 (41m 45s): And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Brittany Wilson of the Dungeon Store. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Jack Polo of Mach Media.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. A tube site that has full length to BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is three years old. They are currently the only free to providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user requests and user provided content after moderation. The owners started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it.

And he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular on Reddit and business sword. The owner has decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry, the sites visitors come back again. And again, due to its uniqueness, they have over 13,000 premium videos, and most of them are 30 minutes or longer with more videos and categories. The site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There is no advertising for the site.

All of the traffic is either type in or from SEO. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic, only 269,000 us dollars. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today and adult site broker talk is Jack polo of triple X playground. Jack, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 48s): Oh, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 49s): It’s a pleasure. Now, Jack is the founder and CEO of MOC media. Their premier brand is triple X playground. Jack comes from a 30 plus background in music production. He transitioned in 2014 into the adult industry. He devotes his time to developing effective tools for couples looking to build stronger bonds and take their relationship to the next level of intimacy. Triple X playground is a platform for adults who have something in common, their love for venturing into new Heights when it comes to their sexual intimacy, triple X playground is a fun-filled game that could be played amongst couples and with a third person or in a group will provide an opportunity to explore different sexual realms and suggestively take you to a sexual height.

You might have needed help discovering it’s located@triplexplayground.com. This holistic tool was created with the intention of perfecting a medium or adults can bask in uninhibited sexual communication, all the while bridging the gap and eliminating awkwardness, criticism and judgment as a result, building stronger, healthier bonds filled with love and trust. The game is ideal for any intimate adult relationship or environment. They pride themselves in being the guide to the pursuit of sexual pleasure.

Sorry, Jack. That’s all we have time for today.

Speaker 2 (4m 15s): I said pretty well.

Speaker 1 (4m 18s): Yeah, you weren’t. You were, you weren’t sure that was a, that was a joke, huh? Okay. So you obviously have a very vast background. So why don’t you tell me a bit about yourself, where you come from and your background,

Speaker 2 (4m 34s): As you mentioned earlier, you know, I have 30 plus year background in music, music production to be exact as well as audio engineering. So that was my, my forte per se for the last 30 years, 30 plus years. And then I switched over in about 2014 and I decided, you know, my music moment, even my passion for music kind of ran its course, and I wanted to venture into something new, something that I was very familiar with.

And I decided to go into the communications sector of, for adults from reading so many books on psychology and, and just the process of how women process and how men process and couples and going to couples therapy myself within several relationships. I, I gained a lot of knowledge throughout the years and I realized that there were, there was a need for certain, a medium for couples to kind of put their guards down, to be able to learn how to communicate more effectively due to technology.

I think that we are hindered with that even more so, even though it makes it easier to communicate or faster, as far as the instant gratification, I think the getting to know a person and that, that whole, you know, that intimate sector of communicating is kind of lost. And I think that there there’s a need for those types of tools to have healthier relationships overall and just teach each other how to learn one another, what to look for. And I thought that the ideal platform would be a universal language that everyone spoke and I thought sensuality would be that.

So I traded tools within that sector.

Speaker 1 (6m 28s): That’s cool. I D I did note an east coast accent.

Speaker 2 (6m 32s): Yes. I’m from New York born and raised in, in Corona Queens and raised in Jackson Heights, Queens. For the most part of my life. I was raised in Queensland. As of recently, I moved out to the west coast and now in Laguna Niguel pool, like right by Laguna beach. It’s beautiful orange county.

Speaker 1 (6m 53s): Yes, it is. Yes, that is so, so, so you’re, so you’re enjoying the west coast, huh?

Speaker 2 (6m 59s): I’m enjoying it. I’m loving the west coast. It’s just, it’s just so much more peaceful out here. And, you know, you can really, really get into your creativity out here without, with minimal distractions, if you will.

Speaker 1 (7m 13s): That’s awesome. Yeah. So the winners are much nicer.

Speaker 2 (7m 17s): Well, it’s winter now and it’s what 60 degrees. So that’s pretty funny, right? Sweater. And you forget about the big triple goose or anything like that. You don’t need that anymore

Speaker 1 (7m 31s): Just

Speaker 2 (7m 31s): In a storage.

Speaker 1 (7m 33s): Yeah, that sounds good. Sounds good to me. Now, tell me about your, your career as a music producer.

Speaker 2 (7m 39s): Okay. So as a music producer, I actually, I’ve been in music since the age of nine. Wow. As a DJ and I started deejaying. And at that time we used to make what was called mixed tapes. So I, I started making these mix tapes, and then there were these battles that we would have in different neighborhoods. And we would battle for equipment rapidly. I became pretty popular because I was pretty good and I was winning all my battles. And I was winning so many records and turntables and mixers from other DJs, about 16 years old, I went to audio engineering school.

It’s a sensor for the media arts. And I got a degree in audio engineering. And while mentor James Mason taught me how to produce music. So I started producing and that just turned into me getting a job at power play studios, which is a legendary hip hop studio. And I got signed to Sony epic records within six months was an artist under a group called SSL smoking circus with logic. And we released our debuted album in 2000.

I mean, excuse me, 1993 and 1993. And it did, it did okay. The group broke up shortly after that, I became a independent producer. I did a lot of work for the label and for many other labels. And then I became a, I formed an actual music production company. And I did that for many years up till about 2010. Then it took a hiatus for two or three years and I came back and I said, you know what? I don’t want to do music anymore.

I was just burnt out from the whole music thing. And just so many how it affected my personal relationships and or the trials and tribulations that I went through personally, because of putting my music career in the forefront, I guess I was in my selfish stages. And, and so, but something the silver lining was that I learned so much about communicating effectively. And I took that information and I, I was actually dared to create a board game that would be suffice to the needs of me and my girlfriend at the time.

And she dared me and I was up for the challenge. So I created it. And the way I create from coming from musical background, I create like a grid like patterns in grids and numbers. So no one could understand my formula. And then I kind of shelved that. And then we get to 2014 and I’m like, you know what? I shouldn’t manufacturer a prototype and see if this thing is actually going to really work. And so I did. And in 2014, I made my actually 2013, I made my first prototype and I started having fun with it.

And I started inviting girls over. I was single and I would play the game with different people and I’d get raving reviews about the game and everyone wanted a copy of the game or to buy the only copy that I had. So I was like, wow, this is pretty interesting. And from, that came around 2014, I started doing for like, like unformal gatherings of friends and friends of friends.

And I would, it would be all d’oeuvres and like tequila and like even some weed smoking or whatever. And then, and then I dunno where I would say, Hey guys, can I have your attention? And I would do a PowerPoint presentation. And there would be people that were heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual. It was all types of people there. And I would have these questionnaires that I would hand out and I would get feedback about what they saw or the game board that I unveiled and the PowerPoint presentation that I did.

What did they think? So that was my whole point. I wanted to see what people thought about the game. And I got a lot of great creative criticism. And from that I made a adjustments and then I made another prototype and so on and so on. And to the point where in 2017, I was offered funding. And then we set forth to figure out a marketing strategy and everything. But by then, I had already developed about 30 products. And, and on paper I developed about I two other services that I haven’t launched yet.

So it’s a brand, it’s not just a game right now. And this game is not just a game. This game is an experience. You know, you buy this game and it’s never the same play twice. There are 400 cards in the game and, and there are refill packs as well. So if you can imagine, like when, when a couple gets this game, I made a key that the woman always feel secure and feel safe. And in that sense, the woman sets the environment.

She had picks the card she feels comfortable playing with, and she puts the rest to the side this way. She sets the soft limits and the hard limits in playing the game. And that’s the same time. It’s still random because it depends on what color you land on the board that you have to either pick the cards or roll the dice. That being said, it’s still there’s that sponsored annuity. And I took all the trivia out of the game. I didn’t want any trivia because that’s the last thing that people are looking for when they’re flowing.

If you know what I mean? So I left it a lot of action. And even though cop-out cards have the black cards for answering a quick question, those questions are, I have, they’ve been edited at least 18 times, you know, by all walks of life as well, to make sure that they were not offensive and that they were something that would be easy to answer yet informative because the whole point is about couples learning each other, learning what their interests are, what they would like from the other without having to ask for them and make it awkward because of a fear of judgment or criticism, mainly from the woman’s part, but not, not solely.

Sometimes men are afraid to ask for what they desire as well. So it goes both ways. So I thought in this way, this was an incredible tool to help couples bridge that gap in communication. Yeah. And from that, and it just organically grew into the marketing plan for the entire concept of this product. Because then I said, you know what? This is more than just a game. And then I said, this is a communication tool.

And that’s fantastic because we don’t have any communication tools on this level of sensuality and sexuality on the market today. And in the same respect, it’s, it’s never the same thing twice. You know what I mean? So you get to learn your partner and you get to grow with it. You know, you get to grow with the game. I sold like 1500 units, a little more than that far. I have zero returns, zero returns and raving reviews.

That’s awesome. Nominated for, you know, game of sex game of the year by amny experts, as you know, and hopefully we win. But you know, even if we don’t, you know, that’s okay because right now as it is, we’re getting a lot of traction. We’re getting a lot of people that want to buy into this company right now. But you know, I’m, I’m holding off because I, I wanna, I want to bring the company to a certain level.

I can see being offered the right amount of money. I’m not trying to buy it, sell it out.

Speaker 1 (15m 42s): I don’t want to leave. You don’t want to leave money on the table. There’s no two ways about it. I tell him, I tell my clients that all the time.

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): Yeah. I don’t want to do that, but I don’t want to sell out either. I mean, I have my products. I stand behind them because I believe in them with all my passion. So if I was to give this up to somebody right now, they wouldn’t know what to do with it. They didn’t create it. You have to wait for this to unravel to a solid brand, a, to a point where people just it’s synonymous with the best sex game you can buy in the market. Triple X playground. I not, because I said it, but because the, you know, the masses have said it because the people have spoken and that’s the point I want to get to.

And like I said, this is only our first product, right. So we have a whole lot of products coming down the pipeline.

Speaker 1 (16m 32s): That’s awesome. So you, yeah, you obviously are passionate. What motivates you?

Speaker 2 (16m 38s): Okay. So I mean, what motivates me in general? I mean, I learned, well, what motivates me is when I take on a project, I’m so meticulous with things that I want to make sure I, that my, I crossed my T’s. I said, groups of milestones and I give myself a timeline. And I know that when I finished that group of milestones, I have, I have reached a goal, but I know that there are many goals to reach. And so I’m very adamant about reaching these goals.

I work very hard at this I’m 24 7 with this company and with this brand. And I mean, other than that, I guess what people usually say, which I, I mean, I’m a father of four, so my children motivate me. My children know what I do. You know, it took them a while to figure it out like that. You’ve been doing music your whole life. Now you’re doing this. I’m like, yes. And one thing I know for sure is that sex always sells. Right. But in the same respect, there’s a lack of communication. So when you put that together, it sounds like, like a golden recipe to me, you know, it just makes sense to me.

This really makes sense to me. So that’s what motivates me that I want to help people. And I want to, I want to help relationships. I’ve been in relationships that I wish would have worked that have been in relationships that I messed up. Yeah. And so, and I learned from those things. So if I could, you know, that, that cliche saying, if you could turn back time, there was no turning back time. Time is infinite. It keeps going. But what you can do is gain wisdom from your biggest mistakes, and that’s what I’ve worked on.

And that’s what I try to help people with that, through, through my tools that they can, I could help them have longer lasting relationships, better relationships, maybe even forever, you know, like, yeah. And that’s pretty the pretty much the purpose. And that’s what motivates me now.

Speaker 1 (18m 38s): Why did you choose to get into adult entertainment?

Speaker 2 (18m 42s): Well, you know, I was doing music for 30 plus years and, you know, I did get nominated for a Grammy and didn’t win. And in that, in that industry, it was so cutthroat. And ah, I just got so tired of it. Plus I didn’t have the soft skills that you would need to be successful in that industry at that time. And so it just, it’s all about timing, right. So it just wasn’t meant to be because I gave music my entire life.

And so about the age of 45 and I’m 52 years old, by the way. And so, you know, I, I said, okay, I did, you know, I’ve done, I’ve dabbled in my own, you know, leisure activities, if you will, you know, checking and smoking, whatever. So I’m like, all right, I did music, you know, rock and roll. I did, you know, some drugs in my life. Okay. Now I don’t right. I smoke a little weed, that’s it. And then I’m like, but I never did like anything in sex.

So sex, drugs, and rock and roll. As cliche as that may sound, I’m a musician at heart. And I’m like, I got that game that I created. So why don’t I enhance that and work on that. And so that drove me to work on the aesthetics and then, you know, I just, I like nice things. So I said, I got to make this plush. I got to make this game look phenomenal so that it just, there’s no competition aesthetically. And then I got to show people how good the game plays, like the game flow.

And that will take some, you know, educating, but that’s okay. I’m, I’m, I’m up for the challenge. And so that’s really what got me into it. I said, you know, what, what turned it? What began, what began as a fun task, became an obsession, which developed into a brand in my head on paper. And I’m like, wow, I really have something here. And then I spoke to some, like some financeers and people like that, not for funding, but just for their opinions, because they’re successful businessmen and they were blown away.

I mean, this is on maybe three or four different occasions. I spoke to four different groups of people and they were blown away by the idea, the concept and just the passion, the drive that I had to make this a reality, like this is going to take off. And I’m like, really? So I respect them intellectually. And I said, you know, they’re very successful businessman. I said, you know what? This is, I got something here. And so I just dove into it full fledge. And I haven’t, I haven’t looked back since that’s absolutely.

That’s really what drives me to do this.

Speaker 1 (21m 30s): Okay. So how did you originally come up with the concept of triple X playground

Speaker 2 (21m 36s): Originally? Like I said before, it was a dare. I was dead.

Speaker 1 (21m 41s): You mentioned that.

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): Yeah, I was there. So I went on a couple of dates with this girl and, you know, we would go to sex shops, we’d come out of the club, maybe tips and go to a sex shop to get some toys or whatever. And we’d always pick up a game just for, I guess, shits and giggles. And they sucked and the games weren’t good. They weren’t, they were poorly made. It was no psychological approach whatsoever. They weren’t well thought out and the graphics were horrendous and the way the quality was just flimsy, it was more like a gag that you give at like, you know, a bridal shower or something.

And I was like, Yeah, I was like, this is not cool. And so that’s where the challenge came from. And I was like, yeah, I’ll do that. And, and so I, I set out to do it. And like I said before, then I shelved it. And then I went back a couple of years later and I looked into it and started working on the graphics and, and I hired like one of the best graphics designers that I know in New York to help me. And we worked on it for like six months. Like everything was no, no, no.

And so finally he figured what I was trying to convey to him that I was looking for. And, and the rest is history. I mean, after that, you know, we, I, I have actually four different games, so this is only the first one, the other three came naturally.

Speaker 1 (23m 5s): Yeah. Get into a little more information about the whole creative process and, and take it from thinking about the concept to the actual launch where you’re selling it and the steps along the way,

Speaker 2 (23m 19s): Like I said, I conceptualized the thought on like a grid, a mathematical grid. And then I started thinking, okay, I can’t make this game too complex. I have to keep it very fundamental, very basic. And then I also thought, okay, it’s a sexual game in nature. So I can’t disturb the flow either. So trivia is completely out. And then I said, okay, has to stay exciting, exciting. And it to be to the point where some of the cards are obscure, like, whoa, we’ve never done that.

You have to just let your imagination run wild and really think of some really off the, off the charts, thoughts of things to do get creative. Right. And so I did, I created coupons. I created, you know, you know, implement the toys and vegetables and fruits and, you know, dressing up and, you know, sky’s the limit. I mean, the game I created from passion all the way up to like a full like orgy, if that’s what you, if that’s what you’re into, you don’t have to go there.

But if that’s what you’re into, it’s there, the cards are there, you get a taste of everything. So it comes with 400 cards, you know, their refill packs as well. That elaborate on so uncertain, right? Like if you want to avoid your pack, versus for insurance, you can buy a Voya pack just to watch and things like that. So, so after I created the aesthetics of the actual board itself, I said, you know what?

I want to keep it fundamental. So I said, what of my favorite childhood games? And I started thinking, I said, everyone’s done monopoly and that’s just playing out. And I kept thinking, and then I’m like, wait a minute. This is, I got it. Because originally the original name of the game was going to be slip and slide. And then I knew how cheesy that name was, but it was just something that I made a direct correlation to sex. So I say, and so I designed slip and slide. I thought about chutes and ladders. And I’m like, oh my God, that’s it.

And so I started developing around that because originally I said, I wanted to be like a checkerboard, simple squares. I don’t want it to look like a maze. I just wanted to go back and forth and you climb up and you get to the, to the hundredth space. So I knew I wanted a hundred spaces. And, and then when I thought about shoots and ladders, I said, this is perfect. Cause I ain’t going to make a woman, you know, gyrating and a male pulling on a chain around her neck, bringing it up. So when it’s being pulled, you go up and when she’s I rating, then you slide down.

So that gave you the ups and downs, right? So I said, okay, this is going to make it fun. Because at the end of the day, the objective of the game is to bridge the gap in communication, kill shock witness and the judgment, right? It’s not about who wins. Everyone’s a winner when they play the game. So the point, so it didn’t matter to get to the space 100. So going up and down, just made it more fun. And then I said, okay, but if they’re playing this game, then naturally more than likely having a drink.

Although I am not promoting alcohol at the end of the day, most likely you’ll have a drink. So I said, why don’t I make it spill proof? So I silicone based the actual board. So it smarts, it’s spill proof. And then I said, okay, I have to have a wide range of sexual options and everything I could think of. It took me literally five years to come up with the perfect cards about 18, maybe even more so edits.

Whereas every girlfriend that I had, I had as every male friend that I knew to help me edit these cards. And, and finally I got to the point where it was, what we thought was perfect. You know, we meaning me, myself and I, right. Cause I’ve done. I created this entire thing, all three of them. So all three of us. And so sorry. And so at that point I said, okay, I need to have the dirtiest dyes, not just dirty dyes. And I’ve gone into harmony shops and seen dice and I can’t stand them.

You know, squeeze bun, lick nipple. Like, no, that’s not starting the party that is really corny. And so I said, they have to be naughty, very naughty. So I created like these very naughty dyes. And then I said, okay, so we have the dice, we have the cards, we have the board. Then I said, okay, this is

Speaker 1 (27m 56s): What a naughty dice look like. I’m kind of curious

Speaker 2 (27m 60s): What a naughty dice look like. Okay. Well

Speaker 1 (28m 4s): This is an audio audio interview.

Speaker 2 (28m 6s): Right? Okay. Well, naughty dyes look like the position dice is for both play all players, right? And so you have a wild, which means you get to pick whatever position you have a right on top, you have a doggy style and you have a missionary. Then you have a 69 and you have a cowgirl. Yeah. This is the position dye. Right. It tells you those are a pretty common positions. Right?

Right. So you can only put six, it’s a six sided dice. So those are the ones I went with and then there’s his dice and there’s her dice. So when it’s a male stern, he rose the male dice with the position dice. When it’s the woman’s turn, she rose the, the female dies with the position dies. And this is how you determine what’s to be done. Now this happens when you land on a white square, whenever you land on a white square, it’s time to roll the 30th dice.

And so for instance, I’ll roll the dice right now as if I was a female. And it says missionary, and it says, fuck me with toy missionary. So this is what the male would do. And that’s what he would do. And that’s an idea of what the dice would say. So they’re pretty, you know, to the point, but they’re not kitty dice. You know, there’s a, there’s a suck, his cock. There’s a fuck. My pussy. There’s wild.

There’s fuck my, and it’s dot, dot.is eat my pussy. And there is, let me see, oh, fuck me with toy. So those are the options. And the male dyes are pretty much the same, but just the other way, fuck her with toy, you know, flip my car like that. And it keeps going. So it makes it for 30 days. Cause they don’t really have Diastat that have that straightforward to the point of doing a sexual, more, more kind of a teasing type of thing.

These are more of an action taking, right? And then when you say, for instance, if you roll the number of die, which is a 10 position number die, it’s a diamond shape. So w if you roll it and you land on a red square, you pick a red card. And if you land on a rose square or like a peach colored square, then you pick that color card and then you do the action that is written on there for you to take action with it.

And that’s pretty much the, just of the game. But in that sense, the game takes all the blame. So we trademark blame it on the game Because basically this way, you know, it takes you out of your comfort zone to request these things. But when you’re playing the game, you already agreed to play this game. So it’s whatever the game says to do, right. At that point, there’s no judgment. There’s no criticism. It’s out the window. Your queerness is out the window and it comes more enticing than anything.

Speaker 1 (31m 14s): So,

Speaker 2 (31m 14s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31m 15s): So why, why don’t you, oh, snow. Sorry to interrupt. Why did you create products for couples as opposed just to, for individuals?

Speaker 2 (31m 24s): That’s a good question. I mean, playing games is just so much more fun when you take in terms. Sure. So that, that’s exactly what struck my interest in going in the couple route, as opposed to individual route. And then this there’s so many beneficial factors in masturbation, but it’s so much more fun to watch your partner, the person you’re you’re you’re into either you love. So you’re in love with it to watch the masturbate. It’s really arousing.

And a lot of people don’t know that, you know, women are shamed sometimes like if a boyfriend or a new guy that she’s just fights or finds a toy on her or, or catches her masturbating, or if a guy gets caught masturbating, you know, either to porn or to like pictures of her, you know, it becomes awkward. Right. Of course. But with this game, it becomes a norm. It becomes actually an add on to your sexuality.

It, it just takes your sexuality to new Heights because now the shame is out the door. You know, it’s kind of that, like when w you know, how comedians, when they, they joke about themselves, so they no room for no one to really ridicule them, of course, first joking on themselves. It’s that kind of approach when you take all the stereotypes and all the, you know, just, you know, the standards, the norms out the window, then inhibitions just start fading away.

They just fizzle away. You become more open, more closer to your partner. And so, I mean, really that’s really what took me to finishing the game. And then I was approached by someone that was very interested in my concept. And they were like, Hey, why don’t we really do the same, make this high end, like you want, and let’s put it out. And I was like, oh, are you serious? And he was like, yeah, I’m like, let’s do it. So we did, we saw, we did.

Speaker 1 (33m 25s): So what’s your target audience for a triple X playground?

Speaker 2 (33m 29s): Oh, my target audience is, you know, I know that the legal age is 18. Right. You know, I, I just feel more comfortable at 21. So I say 21 to 55 plus. And I think that my niche is also a part of that answer would be both male and women, but not only heterosexual. Right. My game board comes with nine game pieces. One of them is a double John rhe gender rather than gender.

So it’s a male female piece. If you don’t want to claim either, I want everyone to feel comfortable. And then the refill packs are, you know, cater to bisexual bicurious or homosexual, or even people that are into like BDSM and things like that. So, you know, it’s, sky’s the limit. This is the one game that you buy. And it, it covers all the bases.

Speaker 1 (34m 30s): Hmm. Interesting. So what’s your plan of action for getting this brand to spread throughout the world?

Speaker 2 (34m 39s): Wow. So globally, right now, we’re domestic at the moment. And we just, we just actually partnered up with a huge, huge entity and a well reckoned individual in the adult facet, if you will. So it’s, RayJay I know you’ve heard of RayJay.

Speaker 1 (35m 3s): No, I have, I have not, but I’ll, I’ll take your word for it.

Speaker 2 (35m 6s): Ray, Jay, who started the Kim Kardashian video? He started it with her. Yeah. RayJay Brandy’s brother.

Speaker 1 (35m 15s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 15s): So he actually has a, a huge sexual that’s about to air on one of the networks. And so we got product placement with him and then yeah. And the, the game is actually going to be a focal point of the show and he’s also the face of the, of the product.

Speaker 1 (35m 38s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (35m 40s): So he has a huge network and that’s his realm, so that’s really good. Look for us. So that’s how we’re going to globalize. Also, he has a plan of action to globalize the brand within a two to three years span.

Speaker 1 (35m 53s): Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (35m 54s): Yeah. So that’s our plan of action right there.

Speaker 1 (35m 56s): That’s great. Where do you see your brand being in five years?

Speaker 2 (36m 0s): I see a C being one of the top three one-stop shops for all your sexual needs and accessories. Yeah. We have about 30 products on the assembly line, a one skew at a time obviously, cause that’s smart marketing. Right. And, and we have services coming that should pretty much cover the entire gamut we were in.

Speaker 1 (36m 27s): So you’re adding adult, you’re adding adult novel novelty as well.

Speaker 2 (36m 30s): Yeah. W what we’re adding, you know, adult toys. Yeah. And for sure as accessories to the games. Yes. Novelties. Yes. And also we’re adding a dating service and a tube site. Okay. You will see the game being played as a proprietary game being played on our proprietary site. So it’ll be sorta like, you know, like when you watch the cam girls, but this is a little different because it’ll be couples, there’ll be three, a couple in a unicorn or a couple in a bowl or two couples of three couples.

And it just makes for more of a show than just like watching a porn clip.

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): So you’re actually two, you’re actually going to host your own campsite. It’s not going to be a white label.

Speaker 2 (37m 14s): Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 18s): That’s quite an undertaking.

Speaker 2 (37m 20s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know this is what we’re working on. So it’s a, I mean, I know it’s going to work just because of the nature of, of where, where, you know, porn itself is going and where the tubes have taken porn, you know, the entire industry as a whole and, and also the dating side. So I just make sense, right. Since,

Speaker 1 (37m 42s): Right. So here’s, here’s a chance to give your elevator pitch. Why would, why would people buy your products as opposed to other people’s?

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): Well, you know what? Our games are, the only games on the market that have beneficial factors, they bridge the gap in communication, they killed the awkwardness is free of judgment and criticism. And it’s ongoing. It’s an ongoing experience. Every time you play the game, this is, this is why. Plus you get the most bang for your buck, literally and figuratively three games in one. So you got the dice game with different rules. You have the card game with different rules, and then you have the board game with the cards and dice,

Speaker 1 (38m 28s): Right?

Speaker 2 (38m 29s): You buy the game right now with developing the app. When the app comes out, you get six months service on the app for free and that’s point from the far end and the near, and you can play with another group or another couple elsewhere, and it’s completely private. So we’re working on the app. Now it’s on the development. So this is all you get for the price point, which is cheaper than one session at a couples therapist. And you got no solutions at a couples therapist with one session.

How much orientation, how much is the game? The game MSRP is at 1 69 99. And right now it’s on sale for 1 19 99.

Speaker 1 (39m 9s): Nice, nice. Yeah. And I’m assuming they can primarily get it on your website.

Speaker 2 (39m 15s): You can get, you can get it on my website, which is spelled out triple the letter, X playground.com. That’s triple X playground.com. You can also get on Amazon. You also can get it at Walmart. And we have it on Etsy and a couple of other places, but mainly, you know, the website and Amazon, Amazon’s kind of a go-to place for most people around the world, at least over here. So that’s what people feel comfortable putting their credit card information and shopping is Amazon.

You know, if it’s on Amazon, it’s legit.

Speaker 1 (39m 49s): We, we hope except for the knockoff products I bought that ended up being from Amazon.

Speaker 2 (39m 54s): What are,

Speaker 1 (39m 55s): We won’t go there or, or just bad products while you, since you gave your, your web address, what about your social media handles?

Speaker 2 (40m 7s): So my social media handle, my, my primary page on Instagram is triple underscore X underscore playground. And then all the other social medias is triple X playground spelled just like that. The word triple the letter X and the word playground, all social media. Twitter is triple X play G R N D. I have enough letters on there, but pretty much triple X playground. You can find this every way you to Pinterest tumbler, where everywhere we are everywhere,

Speaker 1 (40m 40s): Damn Twitter, they make everything difficult. Is this, is this gonna solely an e-commerce business? Are you planning on expanding to brick and mortar?

Speaker 2 (40m 49s): Well, actually right now is a solely an e-commerce building a business, but we already reaching out to brick and mortar companies that we see ourselves having a good joint venture with that we could do something really positive and make an impact. So we’re in talks, but we’re not in negotiations just yet, just because right now, the way we’re going to unveil this first, this campaign for the first quarter of the year, we, we want to keep it on, on e-commerce these for one to two quarters.

And then after that, we should be looking to place it in pretty much all the brick and mortars across America to start.

Speaker 1 (41m 36s): No. Now, since this will drop in may, when should we expect some things like the tube, the cam, the cam platform and things like that? Or what are your plans?

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): Yeah, so we are actually, we’re actually speaking to a, to only fans to do something immediate, just to get a whistle wet, if you will, at the same time, we’re developing the platform. So I can’t give you a concrete time, but I would say probably a year from now. So maybe six months from when this airs

Speaker 1 (42m 14s): Fabulous. Well, Hey, Jack, I’d really like to thank you for being our guests to Dan adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation. The potential buyers may want to find out about this should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images and number of videos.

How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years. If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports. Get all of the information organized in a legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process for contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market.

The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know such as are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts, et cetera? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Brittany Wilson of the dungeon store.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Jack Polo of Mach Media. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Mike Stabile of the Free Speech Coalition.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown ever since all of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages.

Google has placed the websites in good search positions. There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic because the owner would like a fast sale, he’s instructed us to slash the price from the previous $595,000 to only $165,000.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site broker talk is Mike’s to Beale of the free speech coalition. Mike, thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 43s): Thanks for having me

Speaker 1 (2m 44s): Great to have you here. Now, Mike is a journalist and documentary filmmaker. Who’s written about an advocated for sex workers and sexual speech for over a decade. His work has been published in a wide range of places, including the daily beast salon buzz feed Playboy in the New York times, seed money, his documentary on pornographer and philanthropist. That’s a hard word in the morning. Chuck Holmes was named one of the best documentaries of 2015 by the advocate to Beal founded Polari media to help non-traditional communities and businesses better communicate with a mainstream audience.

He’s handled communications for the free speech coalition since 2013, by the way, you’re doing one heck of a job. The, a free speech coalition’s mission is to protect the rights and freedoms of both the workers and businesses in the adult industry or organization functions as a resource, a leader, and a tool for the communities that they serve. They take pride in fighting to alleviate the social stigma, misinformation and discriminatory policies that affect those who work in and adjacent to the adult industry.

For more than 25 years, they’ve been fighting and winning impossible battles from the Supreme court to the ballot box. And back again, our industry is almost constantly facing scrutiny and attacks, but we’ve seen firsthand when we come together and fight we win. So how was that for a commercial for the FSC?

Speaker 2 (4m 13s): That was great. Thanks for the kind words as well.

Speaker 1 (4m 17s): Hey, you know, I, I love what you guys do and I believe very much in your mission. So how did the FSC first get started?

Speaker 2 (4m 27s): So it’s funny because the FSC got started in environment, not so dissimilar from the one that we face today. It was in the early nineties, the department of justice, the FBI in conjunction with local vice squads were rating adult businesses. So, you know, if you remember back in the mid eighties, there had been the Meese commission report and the Reagan administration had gone after adult businesses quite aggressively, you know, in terms of sort of launching a culture war, wanting to take down the growing at that point VHS business.

And they instituted after the report came out a policy of going after pretty much every big adult business that they could think of, you know, that they can reasonably bring in. I think that, you know, in the early nineties they took down, what they would do is they would go after an adult business. They wouldn’t often be able to get a conviction, right? So sometimes they would go after, you know, say somebody was making films, you know, obscenity prosecutions are really, really hard.

And so they, you know, they wouldn’t necessarily have success, but when the federal government is coming after you it’s tremendously expensive. Right. And so what they would do is they would make it more expensive. They would, you know, they would, the FBI would order videotapes to Utah. They’d ordered videotapes to Alabama, they’d order it to North Carolina. And then a distributor would send those video tapes out and they would suddenly launch multiple prosecutions in multiple states, you know, try to fight the federal government in, in a court of law.

And you’re going to quickly go out of business. You’re just not going to have the resources.

Speaker 1 (6m 20s): They don’t have to pay there. They don’t have to pay their lawyers.

Speaker 2 (6m 24s): No, absolutely not. And they’ve got a ton of them. So what we saw was a lot of businesses were starting to just fold and settle and the free speech coalition started originally as a legal defense fund so that people could fight back, you know, so that if they struck one business that other businesses were, you know, sort of mutual aid society coming to their defense, it meant that they could share resources in terms of lawyers, right. That we could understand how to beat these charges back.

So that was how it originally began as a defense fund, as the, you know, as that the culture shifted, it became a trade organization and it started focusing on, you know, not just individual legal battles against individual companies, but against discrimination. Industry-wide against laws that, you know, were discriminated against adult businesses. Like the 2257 regulations or things like in, in California to one of our early victories was against a syntax, which would have led at 25% tax on adult content.

So it, you know, I think that we really grew as an organization in response to the challenges that were put forward to us later. Obviously we would deal with, you know, launching a testing system to test adult performers, to fight HIV aids. We, again dealt with raids in the early two thousands with the Bush administration over 2257 records. We recently, you know, we even went to the Supreme court at one point and, and won an important victory over what we would terms were barely legal.

There had been a law passed in Congress during, in an omnibus bill saying that if a actor looked under age that it was child pornography. And so, so we had, we had to fight a lot of things in order to protect our industry. And, you know, today, as I mentioned, we’re, we’re in the middle of a culture war again, and we’re seeing a lot of legislation attacking our industry. So we’re, you know, feeling that, you know, despite the challenges that were as vital today as we were 30 years ago,

Speaker 1 (8m 51s): I agree now it’s funny, you mentioned the Reagan administration and the, and the Meese commission, you know, the more I read and then I think back, and I’m in the middle of Andrew gang’s newest book now. And I don’t remember the, the issue that he was talking about with Reagan on this one. I’m oh, I do. Actually, it was, I think it had to do with three, three districting. If I’m not mistaken, you wonder what the country would be like if there was no Ronald Reagan, you know, you wonder what the country would look like today.

If Ronald Reagan had never been president hell, I was living in California when he was governor and he was a terrible governor. And then he ran for president. It’s like, by then I was voting. I’m like, I’m not going to vote for this guy. He was an awful governor and he’s going to be president anyway, I digress. So how has its the FSCS mission evolved over the years?

Speaker 2 (9m 52s): Well, I think that, you know, we’ve evolved as the industry has evolved. So I think that as, you know, as we moved, like I said, from the original fight over individual obscenity prosecutions to really trying to bring the industry into a more reputable place, right. Establishing standards, trying to coordinate across, across different companies, you know, looking and establishing mutual defense so that we sort of understood what the issues were.

And I think that that’s something that, again, we still see today, if you look at their cases being brought against porn hub, this case is being brought against only fans, as you know, in multiple districts and multiple, multiple states. And what we see is that those companies don’t always talk to each other, right? Twitter is being sued under the same law that PornHub is being sued on. And you know, I think that the role for FSC today really is to try to be a central hub for communication.

You know, we’ve, we’ve certainly also moved more aggressively in terms of the rights of workers. It was something that was certainly there at the beginning. Once we became a trade association, we had people who really wanted to, to talk about how to protect people who were working on set and what their rights would look like. But as the industry has changed, as performers have become more independent, right? They don’t need studios, they don’t need agents necessarily. They can run their own businesses through platforms like only fans and fan Centro and just for fans and, and the, you know, the 30 or so platforms that have exploded the past year.

I mean, there’s a platform if for every company at this point, I don’t know one company that I work with or anybody else works with that, isn’t either, you know, running a fan platform or designing one. So, you know, that is a shift in our mission as well, right? We need to make sure that there are resources for all of these new business owners that they know how to store model records, that they know, you know, how to do their accounting, that they know what legal recourse they have, that they know what the standards are.

If you’ve never been in the industry before, and you’ve never shot anything, but suddenly you have a $10,000 a month only fans account. You may not know about consent checklist. You may not know how to be an ethical creator. You may not. It may not be that you don’t want to be. It may not be that you’re, you’re negligent. It may just be that you’re not educated. And I think that that’s one of the roles that we see for free speech coalition going forward is really helping people who are coming into this industry. No matter whether they’re in, you know, Australia or Bangkok or London or Los Angeles that we’re there to help them.

Speaker 1 (12m 49s): Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s interesting, you mentioned record-keeping and I think a lot of people have the misguided thought that because 2, 2, 5, 7 is now largely a moot point that they don’t need to keep records.

Speaker 2 (13m 7s): Yeah. I think that that was something that, that people did think, you know, free speech coalition fought our, we just ended our 2057 battle, right. It started in, you know, it started 12 or 13 years ago, again with a series of raids where the FBI was going into adult businesses and demanding to see their records. And if they missed, if a person missed, filed something, if it was filed under S rather than T or they, they had them in the wrong order, that was a felony under 22, 57, 22 57 was designed to be a trip wire to arrest people when they couldn’t get them on obscenity charges.

And so we, you know, we fought those regulations. We, we, we battled it for 13 years and eventually defanged them. But what you see, you know, almost at the same time is MasterCard stepping in to issue its own regulations. So

Speaker 1 (14m 5s): I

Speaker 2 (14m 5s): Think you’re right. A lot. Yes, exactly. So you see a lot of people who aren’t familiar with 2257 regulations, or don’t think that they have to keep them suddenly getting caught and saying, oh, wait, I do have to do model releases. I do have to, it’s not just enough that I verify or that I, you know, that know that somebody is 18 or that they consent to be in it because they’ve been sent it to you to be in it. I have to document that. And you know, again, that’s where FSC comes in, both in terms of, you know, trying to run interference with MasterCard, to let them know what our issues are and, and, and how to design better regulations, but also to educate the community as to what you have to do and what the dangers are, if you don’t do that.

Speaker 1 (14m 49s): So how did you get involved FSC?

Speaker 2 (14m 53s): I got involved. I’ll do you one better? I got involved in the adult industry in the early two thousands. I’ve been working in magazines in New York. I moved back at that point to San Francisco and was,

Speaker 1 (15m 9s): I didn’t even, I didn’t even, I didn’t even know you lived in the city. So my hometown,

Speaker 2 (15m 14s): I love it. I exactly, I think of it as my hometown as well, even though I didn’t grow up there, it’s really sort of my, you know, where I, I feel, yeah, it’s such an emotional connection. And so I had, I’d been living in San Francisco. I moved to New York. I moved back to San Francisco because once you leave California, it’s, it’s, it can be hard to stay away. And you, it was sort of looking for work.

I was sort of bouncing around and I had a friend who was doing some freelance work for some gay adult company, sort of handling their press releases and things like that. And he couldn’t do it anymore. And he said, oh, do you want some, some work? You don’t want some sort of freelance work. And I said, sure. So I picked it up and almost immediately it felt a kinship. You know, I had it, it felt like my community. It felt like it was fun.

You know, I think that I, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a family, it’s the industry. And it’s, it’s, you know, people don’t take themselves too seriously. So I sort of thought of it maybe as like a temporary stop and, you know, started sort of developing products and started sort of eventually pitching articles and, and writing a little bit more about the industry I left in 2009, because I had sort of stumbled across a story that I thought was best told through documentary.

It was about this gay porn, pioneer Chuck Holmes, who founded Falcon studios and had had this sort of tortured relationship with the democratic party. He was a big funder, but you know, the type of person who, you know, he could throw a party, he could have dinner with Gorbachev, but when it came to, you know, being invited to someplace, he’d be asked to use the back door essentially, right? Like you want a pornographer there though. They were happy to take his money.

And so to me, it was this sort of tragic story of, you know, I mean, it was, it was Gatsby ask in terms of like, you, you, you have these yachts, you have these private jets, you have these, you know, homes in multiple places and all of this luxury and really what you want is respect. And that’s a story that so many pornographers and people in the sex industry have, which is, you know,

Speaker 1 (17m 47s): And gay people.

Speaker 2 (17m 49s): Absolutely. I think that, that is that’s, that’s absolutely it. And so, you know, I, I sort of wanted to tell this story. And so I, I, I had been working at a company called naked sword,

Speaker 1 (18m 1s): Ah,

Speaker 2 (18m 2s): Running a website,

Speaker 1 (18m 3s): Our friend, our friend, Tim,

Speaker 2 (18m 5s): Our friend, Tim Valenti. Yes. So I had launched a, you know, a sort of gay news site called the sword and was sort of running that and decided I sort of wanted to leave and, and work on

Speaker 1 (18m 16s): That. I didn’t know you started that. That’s cool.

Speaker 2 (18m 18s): Yeah. Yeah. And so I took off, I moved to Argentina with a bunch of film. I shot some early interviews and was just trying to play around with, with what it would, you know, what I could do with it. And, you know, and I, eventually I came back to the states cause it just became harder to, I had to shoot more interviews and going back and forth wasn’t financially feasible, you know, and I missed having 18 different types of toothpastes in the checkout aisle.

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Tell me about it,

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): The ex-pat lament. So I, you know, I did that and, you know, again was sort of doing freelance writing was, was trying to figure out what it was. I went and covered the <inaudible> obscenity trial in, in, in LA and, and, you know, had always had, had a relationship with FSC, but not, not a real direct one. You know, I worked on various things when they could sort through them.

And so I, but I was looking for money for my documentary. And so I was hitting everybody up and I went in one day to kink.com. You know, I was in San Francisco and, you know, I loosely knew Peter and I was going into sort of pitch him on this. Well, you know, if you know any, so they never liked to give money away. Right.

Speaker 1 (19m 46s): But

Speaker 2 (19m 48s): At that time just happened as I happened to be in there, he got a call from the Huffington post, you know, about a potential scandal at the company. And, you know, something was bring, somebody was, was talking. And he said, you know, I don’t really know how to answer these things. They said, well, listen, you know, you know, he had hung up at that point, or I don’t know if he even taken the call, but I said, you don’t tell me what the story is. And he told me this story and I was like, well, that’s entirely reasonable. There’s no reason that, you know, you should be able, you should be hiding from this.

This is it. You just need to talk frankly, about what this is. And so he said, you know, could you give them a call? And I said, sure. So I gave him

Speaker 1 (20m 30s): A call. That’s how you became his PR guy.

Speaker 2 (20m 33s): And that’s how I became his PR guy. The story killed.

Speaker 1 (20m 37s): I still want them on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (20m 44s): That’s good. Yeah. I will. I’ll remind him he’s knee deep and things right now. But hopefully in the new year, he’ll start servicing and sort of be more available for media. So he, from then on, I, they said, oh, we could use some help around here. So I needed money. And I said, I’ve got a sort of fund to stock and I’ll do it. And that happened to be, and I, a time when there was just a lot going on at cake, you know, it was really in the crosshairs, they were getting ready to, they had worked on a documentary that James Frank Franco had produced.

It was coming out at Sundance. There were, you know, a number of issues that were happening in the, the larger adult industry regarding testing and safety. And, you know, while working with kinky, he’s sort of contacted the FSC and said, Hey, listen, you know, I think that you should work with Mike. I think that would help with some of the issues that you’re having. And so I started working with FSC and, you know, from there, our relationship really blossomed, but I really felt strongly about free speech coalition about sexual speech, about the rights of sexual minorities, about the rights of workers and was adept at communicating that with, with the mainstream media.

And that was something that coming from a journalistic background felt, you know, like I’m, I’m in my zone here and, and, you know, I’ve been there ever since, you know, we, we, we worked on multiple campaigns. We, we sort of bought, fought back prop 60 in California and I couldn’t be happier.

Speaker 1 (22m 21s): Awesome. So what are the greatest threats facing the industry today?

Speaker 2 (22m 26s): I mean, I think that, you know, the, the greatest, I mean the same threats that face the industry, the, the, the threats that face the, the entire world at this point, which is sort of misinformation and, you know, and moral panics, you know, I think that we are looking at a, you know, a culture war that we haven’t seen in 20 years, and maybe haven’t seen in, in 30 years, I think that, you know, the, the closest approximation that we have right now to the sort of multi-pronged bite, you know, and that is, we have legislative battles on, on section two 30 going on in the house and Senate, we have age verification regime is being instituted in the UK and Australia and Germany.

We have the evangelical and faith based groups, like the cozy and Exodus cry, pressuring the banks to de platform for things like porn hub and only fans. Yeah. I mean, it is, it’s, I’ve never seen it, this aggressive. I think that I, I, I often think that last year, you know, last year being 2020, right.

Speaker 1 (23m 45s): I should, I should point out we’re doing this in December of 2021. So this will run in the spring of 2022. Okay.

Speaker 2 (23m 53s): Okay. So in, you know, in early 2020, I started watching, you know, a monitor, you know, hundreds of, of publications a day. So I’m, I’m, I’m going through in the morning, I’ll get through all of these things, you know, mostly you’re sort of scanning headlines and things like that, but I’ve pretty aggressive monitoring service that will click in and say, I’ve got to read this. And so I would see this stuff bubbling up about trafficking hub and, and, you know, these, these claims being made about putting up, and I thought, God, this is just so witty, Arctic, right?

Like this is so misguided. It’s not, it’s not based. In fact, it’s not based in any statistics, it’s just sort of these evangelical groups running a censorship campaign, right. That we’ve seen

Speaker 1 (24m 35s): This.

Speaker 2 (24m 36s): Exactly. And I didn’t really take it seriously. And, and in retrospect, you know, there, it was a mistake, but I don’t think anybody took it serious. I think that we all just thought it was a bunch of chokers, you know, cut to a year ago this week and Nick Christoff and the New York times publishes

Speaker 1 (24m 54s): I canceled. I canceled my subscription, by the way, after that second article, just to let you know, I sent the New York times a message, like they care. I sent the New York times a message telling them why I canceled my subscription.

Speaker 2 (25m 6s): Good for you. Good for you. I mean,

Speaker 1 (25m 9s): Fight, fight back. You know, the only thing you got as a tool is your money, you know, you vote with your money. So,

Speaker 2 (25m 15s): Yeah, absolutely. And they, you know, they put out that, that article where he had sort of platform to cozy and Exodus cry did not identify them.

Speaker 1 (25m 26s): PornHub,

Speaker 2 (25m 27s): PornHub Laila, Micklethwait the sexual trafficking activist and the legal analyst. It, it just, it was, it was, it was so consciously done to sort of strip them of the faith-based roots and to present this story as if this was an activist story, as opposed to sort of censorship. And of course, Dick Kristoff has a long history, a long tortured history of, you know, completing sex work and sex trafficking of savior syndrome and everything else, and, and of wanting to sort of shut down

Speaker 1 (26m 3s): Risa grand standard. Was

Speaker 2 (26m 4s): That exactly? God bless Oregon where he’s running for governor.

Speaker 1 (26m 10s): Yeah. I heard about, I wish I could vote against him in Oregon. Oh, well I know people there.

Speaker 2 (26m 16s): Yeah. This is an act of sex worker community. So I’m hoping that, that, that they, they take care of him. So, you know, yeah. So I mean, this, you did take it seriously. This sort of gets whitewashed. And then all of a sudden you see visa and MasterCard withdrawing support from PornHub and you see everybody else working out. And I think that one of the things that, you know, we realized this year and, you know, it is, is just how tenuous our relationship is with the financial services sector and how brutal it is to lose it.

If you lose visa or MasterCard, you lose your business. And it’s something that’s always been an issue. I remember, you know, even going back when I was working on the documentary about Chuck Holmes, he couldn’t get a loan from the bank, right loan for his business. You couldn’t get bank accounts. And this is back in the eighties today, obviously sex workers face that same level of discrimination. They get kicked off of PayPal. They get their funds seized on Venmo. FSC tried to open a business, a second bank account this year and was told by our bank that we won’t take it.

You’re an adult business. And we said, but we’ve already got an account with you. And they said, well, I’d be quiet about it if I were you, you know, it’s just, it’s, it’s just that level of, of discrimination that we face. I think that this year brought it into sharper relief. And, and we’re not the only ones that, that knew that. I mean, I think that one of the things that I’ve realized as I’ve gone back over the past year and, and as FSC and our legislative committee and our various partner organizations that we work with, you know, have discovered is that, you know, groups like Nikolay the national center on sexual exploitation, formerly morality and media.

No, is that banks are a weak point and they’re exploiting that. And so, you know, I was looking back and, and the president of the cozy until I think a month ago was a guy named Patrick Truman and Patrick Truman, you know, as I sort of dug back was the head of the task force, the obscenity task force, and the department of justice in the late eighties, early nineties went after adult businesses, right?

He’s he doesn’t believe it’s Christian. He doesn’t believe that we have a right to do it. He believes that it’s all exploitation. He doesn’t believe that adult content is protected by the first amendment. And in realizing that I, you know, also realized that the strategies that they have right now is the same strategy that they had in the eighties and nineties. So in the eighties and the nineties, what it was, was multiple prosecutions in and sort of denying you access to funds. So they would seize your bank accounts.

They would come at you from a bunch of different angles and knew that it would take a lot of energy and resources for you to defend yourself against it. That’s the same strategy they’re taking today. They’re using different mechanisms, but they’re going after your banks, right? Exactly. They’re filing multiple lawsuits. There’s multiple losses that Nicole has sponsored against PornHub right there. They’re trying this strategy to really drain the business and essentially make them, you know, give up, say, it’s too much work.

We’re going to go into something else. And so, you know, it, once you understand their strategy, it’s a little bit better because at least you understand how to react to them. You know, I, I wish I had made the connection a little bit earlier and that the industry had been a little bit more on high alert. I tend to be a little bit of a chicken little as it is. So not everybody lists, but you know, in this case, I, I wish I yell a little bit louder,

Speaker 1 (30m 7s): Always. So why do you think we’re seeing such a backlash against adult content around the world?

Speaker 2 (30m 14s): I think that we’re seeing a backlash because we’ve been so successful. If you think back to the eighties or nineties, or even the early two thousands, when there was a battle over, you know, a pornography, you know, as, you know, becoming sort of more mainstream, right. This idea that like, oh, it’s, it’s becoming more prevalent people. See it, what does this mean? We should restrict access to it. We should, you know, we should bring them up on, I’m sending charges, we stroll up this stuff, you know, we’ve won that battle.

You know, there isn’t a, there we don’t see obscenity prosecutions happening anymore. Even under the Trump administration, we didn’t see any, you know, 2257 has been

Speaker 1 (30m 58s): Too busy getting in their own way.

Speaker 2 (31m 1s): Yeah, exactly. You know, PornHub is, you know, PornHub was a household word, right? People talk about porn, women talk about porn. You know, we talk about ethical point. We talk about anal, you know, on the news. And so I think that the, the conservative Christians were really at a loss in, in terms of, you know, having lost this culture war. And so I think that this is a deeply reactionary movement, you know, in an attempt to say like, oh my God, I can’t believe that it’s gotten this bad.

And I think that it’s also, it’s not just related to porn. I think that this is a reactionary movement in terms of the progress of the gay and lesbian community and the trans community. I think that these were all things that over the past, you know, five years really had people, you know, especially in conservative, socially conservative circles, wondering like what’s going on with our world, right. We’re losing, or, you know, our, our primacy, we’re losing our power. And this is an articulation of it.

I think that on a more specific level as I went back and sort of traced the trafficking hub movement and, and trace the sort of anti the rise of Vandyke porn, what I’ve seen is that it, it ties in almost exactly what the pandemic. And I think that there was trauma. If I, you know, this is just sort of loose speculation, you know, but what you see is is that when the pandemic happens, you see a tremendous number of news stories about how people are logging on and watching porn public health department saying, oh, you should watch porn.

You should, you should, you know, it’s better than going out and having sex. This is a natural way to release tension and all the rest of it,

Speaker 1 (32m 46s): Nobody ever caught COVID from their computer.

Speaker 2 (32m 49s): Exactly. And at the same time, everybody is home alone or it’s home with their family right there. And so there’s this feeling of, you know, a greater attention to what is my kid doing in the bedroom? You know what it’s like my college student son doing with the door closed, what’s my husband doing so long in the bathroom. What’s my wife doing, you know, while I’m not there, you know, or while I’m cooking dinner or whatever it is. I think that, I think there was this sort of this magic brew of, you know, all of this is going on and then a general cultural anxiety around sex and sexuality in the household.

And I think that, that it, it helped it sort of gain traction where it hadn’t before. You know, I think that it, I think that, you know, when you look at how it all plays out, it, it, it matches so closely that I think that there has to be something that, because people are always trying to, so this is not the newest argument that we’ve had, right? Like there has always been, there have been conservative Christians who have been advocating against pornography for years, but I do think that, that there was something about the pandemic that really gave it a little power and allowed it sort of to, you know, not to use it too much of an on the nose COVID metaphor, but, you know, escape, its old host and sort of go into a new population, but here we are,

Speaker 1 (34m 8s): And they had too much time on their hands. I think. So what’s the,

Speaker 2 (34m 14s): Sorry. I should also, somebody know, I, someone also mentioned that one of the things that happened during the pandemic with the, the relief bills is that the cap got lifted on donate on charitable donations. And for people who were making, you know, donated more than 50% of their AGI, what we saw during the pandemic was the donations to these organizations skyrocketed, you know, this is a cash cow. The COSI was really wandering in the wilderness for years, right there.

Their big victory in you in the past five or 10 years was getting Cosmo removed from the Walmart checkout line. You know, they were not a relevant organization, but once they sort of moved into this sort of, this idea of anti-trafficking of child porn, they really hit it. And by, you know, I think their revenue in the, between want to say like 2018 and 2020 tripled, you know, they’re just making so much more money than they were before. And that puts them in a better position to do these types of things.

Speaker 1 (35m 16s): Yeah, that’s very true. So what is the FSC doing to fight back?

Speaker 2 (35m 22s): So, you know, we’re, I mean, what aren’t we doing at this point? It is a long day, every day. You know, we are a small staff and we have a lot of volunteers including often me, you know, we immediately in, in, you know, in late 2020, I immediately got on the phone with PornHub, tried to understand what was going on and on their side of how we could support it. In June, by January, we had launched a legislative committee to deal with the spate of new bills that were coming in against section two 30 began sort of monitoring these groups a lot more and meeting weekly to sort of talk about what had gone on comparing notes with performers and in terms of what they’re seeing, talking with studios as to what they’re seeing and just improving the lines of communication.

One thing that happened in COVID is that we all got siloed, right? We didn’t have as many places where we were communicating at the same time. It also enabled things like zoom. So once we got our sea legs, we’ve been much more aggressive. I was on the phone, this on a zoom call this morning with, with sex worker activists in Australia, you know, understanding what’s going on with their online safety act and how that, you know, how that ties in to the legislation that’s being introduced in the UK and to the, the evangelical movement in the U S so we’re starting to draw all of these connections.

I think that, you know, we are, we’ve hired federal lobbyists for the first time in over a decade And, and responded to, you know, when, when representative and Wagner Missouri sent a letter to, she sent two letters actually to the department of justice, or what, what did the department does justice and one defense in calling for an investigation into only fans. We responded, we, we send a letter to Merrick Garland last month, you know, outlining just how wrong this is.

We also send it to a hundred members of Congress who had signed onto her letter and said, we needed to come in and talk with you because this is bullshit. You know, this isn’t true, this isn’t representative of the industry and this isn’t accurate. So we’re, we’re fighting back on just about every level. We, we, you know, we had meetings with MasterCard in June, you know, we, we have been talking with banking, you know, with payment processors and things like that. And also trying to just get the adult industry to understand that this isn’t about one or two companies.

I think that one thing that you saw when PornHub first went down, or I shouldn’t say went down, but when it was, you know, when it was attack, was that, you know, there were a number of people who didn’t feel so nice kindly about porn hub. And so they thought, well, this big competitor’s gone. What do I care? And I think that we also saw that a bit with, with only fans, right. There were a lot of people that said that for them,

Speaker 1 (38m 16s): A lot of jealous, a lot of jealousy when, when people are on the top, I think.

Speaker 2 (38m 19s): Yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, I don’t, I don’t want to take away from what people feel, right. These, these are companies that really dominate the space. So you’re,

Speaker 1 (38m 30s): And there’s long Cylance faces. There’s longstanding resentment towards big tube sites.

Speaker 2 (38m 37s): And for

Speaker 1 (38m 37s): Sure, and there’s a lot of people who still bitch about it instead of choose to work with them, those that are still in business.

Speaker 2 (38m 45s): Yeah. And I, I understand that entirely. And what we’ve been trying to say is that this is beyond that, like this isn’t, you know, the, the inner family battles have to stop. You know, what we have to understand is

Speaker 1 (38m 57s): There are no

Speaker 2 (38m 58s): What they do about PornHub. Isn’t going to just affect porn hub. It’s going to affect you. And I think that we’re making that we’re making that case. I think people are finally realizing it. The other thing that we do is that we talk to the media constantly. So we are on the horn calling up the Washington post yelling at the New York times. You know,

Speaker 1 (39m 20s): The way you put those two,

Speaker 2 (39m 23s): You know, I mean, it is, and I want to be in as many places as possible, even if they’re hostile, because they think that, you know, you might read an article that’s overwhelmingly hostile, but if there’s no country opinion in there, there’s no chance that you’re going to change your mind. So I think that if, if, if at least we can get a quote in where we’re disputing something, even if it’s in, you know, the daily caller or, you know, the BBC, which has become so incredibly hostile to sex work in porn, that it’s, it’s almost unrecognizable.

I want to be there. I want to be there making a contrary opinion in the same way that, you know, I think that I did as sort of a young gay activists, which was to say, listen, I’m happy, whatever lies, your, whatever lies you’re telling about my community. I want to stand in opposition and say, that’s not how I feel. I’m not mad. I’m not depressed. I’m not degraded. I’m happy and, and proud of who I am. That’s how I feel about the adult industry today is that I want to be there and say, as a Testament, to what they’re saying, isn’t true.

Here’s somebody who is reasonable, who could talk about these things, who can understand what the challenges are, you know, that we face online in regards to things like revenge porn and CSM, and that we take them seriously that this isn’t a playground, you know, a wild west.

Speaker 1 (40m 42s): Yeah, no, I agree with you. Maybe, maybe you guys need to have a campaign, a, an adult industry, pride campaign. I think that’s something that I’m serious. I think that’s something, that’s something we all need to be more proud of.

Speaker 2 (40m 57s): Absolutely. And I think that it’s, you know, as I just launched, you know, we’re launching a fundraising team and working with creators and, and on, on sort of new ideas as to how we can do it or how we can sort of bring in more money. But when you thought about, you know, what is my dream goal with this industry and with this organization, you know, what would we be doing? And obviously it would be, I want to be at every hearing, right? I want to be talking to parliament. I want where I want someone from the industry talking to parliament. I want, I want white papers.

I want, you know, analysis. I want to be able to fight back with data and with facts though, I understand that facts and data are increasingly irrelevant in this world. But you know, the other thing that we we look at is that we want to be involved in a media campaign, right? You want to be able to do what porn hub used to do with, you know, with their billboards and time squares and get so much press, but why can’t we do that for issues that are that matter to us?

You know, the issues of sex we can and with enough money we can

Speaker 1 (42m 5s): That’s right. It all comes, it all comes down to money. It always does. What can individuals in the industry do to get involved in the fight?

Speaker 2 (42m 14s): Well, I think that the first thing is, is that to take it seriously and follow it, right? This is understand that this affects you when your livelihood, that if, if, if these companies go down, especially if you’re a creator, you’re going down, right? Your, your income is going to drop. If you’re banking, discrimination gets worse, your issue is going to get worse. So I want people involved in that. Obviously I want them to donate to FSC, or at least become FSC members, even for five or $10 a month. That becomes something that is, that sustains us and allows us to do this work.

But I also just want people to get involved. You know, I mean, I interact with so many people on Twitter and have met so many people from so many different areas of the fight, you know, full service, sex workers, free speech, activists, technologists, you know, and you really want people who you don’t want to. We had a research team meeting for the first time for a new research team meeting. We expanded it and put out a call for people that were interested in sort of doing research. And it was so wonderful to see people from all over the industry say, Hey, listen, I want to take a look at scientific studies.

Somebody else saying, I want to look at, you know, I want to look at this. Group’s tweets, someone else saying, you know, I want to write a, you know, an op-ed, these are the things that we need, people we just don’t have. We’re never going to have enough people to do it all ourselves, you know, from FSC, we’re only gonna succeed in this if we have the entire community involved.

Speaker 1 (43m 38s): So Mike, talk about Polari media. Give us a little bit about what you do there.

Speaker 2 (43m 45s): Well, you know, Polari media was a affirm. I founded, you know, when I was working on my documentary and starting to work with adult companies and, and others are a marginalized groups, so sex educators, LGBTQ groups, and artists, and, and things like that, to help them access the mainstream media to get their message out. And glory is a term that comes from sort of late 19th century, British slang, that that was used by sex workers and dock workers and the queer community to communicate in the community amongst themselves to avoid law enforcement.

So a lot of the words that we we think of today is very common. Like dragon camp were early Polari words. And so I, I thought of that as I’d always sort of been fascinated as a linguistic history and it seemed to fit sort of what, you know, I was doing, which was trying to find ways for these groups that have been marginalized to, you know, better communicate. And so I, I founded this business and it’s always been something where I never really had to go after clients often, you know, I I’m, I’m a bad business person.

And so have always been, you know, almost trying to lose clients so that I could have more time to do the work that I want to do. But, you know, it’s, there’s always a tremendous need in this industry. There’s always people, you know, whether it’s people who want to reach the mainstream media for, you know, to get their brand out or something like that, or whether it’s somebody who is, you know, getting attacked in the mainstream media and needs to understand how to fight back, have done a ton of it, which is how I started.

It’s still sort of where I, you know, what I love to do. I love, I love to be in a fight in that way, and I love to be able to come to somebody’s defense. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45m 56s): Sorry, I’m going to see

Speaker 2 (45m 58s): MSA. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (46m 1s): What are you most proud of with your participation in the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (46m 5s): You know, I mean, I think that in terms of pride, you know, I really think that our battle over prop 60 in, in 2015 was pivotal. This was a mandatory condom legislation. It was a ballot measure that would, would have forced performers to use condoms, or they would have faced, you know, potential civil lawsuits from consumers. So the way that the, you know, the, the way the law had been structured was that if, you know, they were mad that nobody was using condoms, right.

They were such

Speaker 1 (46m 41s): A California thing.

Speaker 2 (46m 44s): Exactly. Right. And so, you know, they, they didn’t care about the testing system. They didn’t care about this and, and largely Cal OSHA and the regulators didn’t care about it. Right. Didn’t they, I mean, in terms of the, they weren’t concerned with the adult industry, cause the adult industry has done a really great job of self-regulating, but there are always going to be moralists who are concerned, what message is this sending to our kids. Right. That was essentially where it came from. And what, you know, if you put something on the ballot that says shouldn’t sex workers or shouldn’t porn stars use condoms.

Well, you know, everyday people are gonna say, oh yeah, I think that makes a good, that’s a good point. They should do that. You know, that would be helpful. It was pitched as a, you know, a worker protection measure except that in this case, the workers hated it. You know, they said, you know, we, we get tested every 14 days when I shoot with a condom, it’s much more difficult. You know, I, I can’t shoot as much. It’s harder on my body. Condoms aren’t meant for these sets where we’re shooting for three hours, you don’t know what you’re talking about and to deal with the recalcitrant report was right.

They, I think they thought they were going to come in as liberator’s. I think they had this idea age F, which was the organization aids, healthcare foundation thought they were going to come in, oh, one stars. We’re going to embrace them because they had just been, you know, subjected to, you know, oppression by these studios. They didn’t find that. And so the way that they, they design the legislation was that they allowed citizens to Sue much in the way that we see right now in Texas with the abortion law. Right. They, they, what the government couldn’t do, they were going to empower citizens to do, they’re going to power them, bring civil lawsuits.

So a, you know, if you saw a film without a condom in it, you could Sue the producer. The problem was is that in many of these cases, you know, in almost all cases, performance, we’re also creating their own content. So this left away for fans and stalkers and anybody to harass them, right. To bring them into court, to have, to be able to see them. And so we, this was something that when the bill was first introduced, when the ballot measure was first introduced, we, it was 75% support in the, the, in the state of California.

You go in, in early polling, we barnstormed the state. And we did, we talked to every editorial board. We, we got the Democrats on our side, we got the Republicans on our side, we got the libertarians on our side. We got the ACLU on our side, we got the chamber of commerce. And, you know, we got everybody that could possibly get hunter sites. And, you know, with the course of four or five months, we turned that into a victory for us. You know, we were able to feed it back and it was tremendous. So I’m tremendously proud of that.

I’m also just tremendously proud right now to be what I’m doing in terms of fighting back. This anti-porn movement. It’s something that I have, you know, I found distasteful when I was coming of age and, you know, in, in the early nineties. And it’s, it’s something that I’m glad to be in this fight today. This is a historic moment. And you know, it’s as difficult as it is and challenging. And as much as I wish it weren’t here, you know, I’m relishing the chance to sort of beat them back.

Speaker 1 (49m 56s): You know, it’s funny, you mentioned, you know, to keep their kids safe and give their, give their kids the, the right idea, their kids shouldn’t be watching porn.

Speaker 2 (50m 6s): No, no. And, and that’s the thing that’s so paradoxical about this, this whole process is that the most effective way to stop your kids from watching porn or stop your kids from accessing porn is to be involved in their devices and be involved in their life. Right. You know, you can block porn on porn hub, right? You can, you can take down all the porn hub. You could make mandatory age verifications. Kids are going to get a VPN. They’re going to go to a different country. They’re going to have a file sharing site.

They’re going to go all these things. There’s

Speaker 1 (50m 39s): Much,

Speaker 2 (50m 40s): There’s some order, and you can be much more effective with the filters on your devices, right? With, at, at the, like That are going, because all adult sites register with those, those devices. So if you turn on a filter and you put in password protected, you know, it’s not going to be able to access porn hub. It’s not going to be able to access, you know, X videos. It’s not going to be able to access only fans, you know, and you know, you can monitor this with this world.

You know, they’re your kids, this is your responsibility. You can even block it at the ISP level so that when they’re accessing wifi, they can access it. It’s going to be much more effective, but people don’t want to hear that. People want to hear that there’s a magic solution that they’re going to take down. These are all sites. You know? I mean, I think that, you know, I hear arguments. I get with anti-porn groups and they say, well, it’s, you know, it’s like liquor, you know, kids can’t just go into a liquor shop and buy liquor and they need to do age verification.

And I was like, but they can go into your cabinet and drink liquor. And so the, this stuff is going to be everywhere, right? They could that this isn’t going to be something that is done just by, oh, we, we pass the age verification for liquor and no kids ever access it. Right. It’s not it we’ve. We understand that this is something that you have to talk to kids about. You have to monitor their behavior, you have to observe it and you have to, you know, keep it out of sight. You know, you have to keep it so that they can access it, you know?

And there’s always going to be people who are going to try to get around that, but an involved parent can be much more effective than the government.

Speaker 1 (52m 22s): Yeah. Good luck. Good luck with that. In, in 2022, I’d like to thank you for being our guests, to Dan adults. I broker Taka was fascinating and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon.

Speaker 2 (52m 36s): Thanks so much for this. I really, really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (52m 38s): My broker tip today is part four of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your site, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it trademarking, your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans.

You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends. If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they are likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things. Review porn, be creative, not just one of many.

Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes on your site. Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week, we’ll be speaking with Jack polo of Mach media. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Mike Stabile of the Free Speech Coalition. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Dominic Ford of JustFor.Fans.

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Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today and adult site broker talk is Dominic Ford. The owner of just for fans, Dominic, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 49s): Absolutely. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 51s): Hey, it’s a pleasure to have you, man. As you know, we’ve been working on this for a long time. Now Dominic’s been in the adult industry for years. He started the gay porn site, Dominick ford.com in 2008, in 2010, he started porn, guardian.com an industry leading anti-piracy company after winning lifetime achievement awards at all the major award shows he founded just for fans in 2018, just for fans as one of the most successful fan platforms in the world.

He was just named businessman of the year at the 2022 ex-business executive awards. Congratulations. So many fan sites are springing up, but a lot of these people are clearly not from the industry. You are Dominic. You have vast experience, not only as a performer, but an entrepreneur. How does this give just for fans and advantage?

Speaker 2 (3m 49s): So I, I think that one of the things that we’re seeing in the landscape right now is a lot of, a lot of these fan platforms are coming in from outside of the industry and they don’t understand the industry. And eventually they grow their, their eyes grow wider than maybe what they, what they see there’s potential for the industry. And they want to, they want to go mainstream and then they, and because they have no attachment to the industry, they are just as happy to leave it behind as they were to rake in money from it.

So I think if there, if there’s one major difference, like that’s the big difference is that we’re we’re from the industry, which means a couple, it means a couple of things. And the first thing it means is we’re not going anywhere. We’re not mainstreaming. We’re not gonna cancel sex workers the way other platforms have or threatened to, to, to be, to do. I mean, other thing is that we understand the ecosystem. So we understand that that in the industry, there are, there are models for sure, but there’s also photographers and their studios and there’s agents and managers and affiliates and, and, and places to film their studio, like physical studios.

And so all of these, all of these different factions that people can make money on just for fans in a way that, that there’s no place for them in these other platforms that, that never even try to understand how the industry operated.

Speaker 1 (5m 20s): Sure, sure. So how did you originally get into the adult industry and also talk about your growth from more, you started to where you are today?

Speaker 2 (5m 31s): So, okay. So 14, it’s hard to believe it’s been 14 years. So 14 years ago, my ex boyfriend and I at the time would look at porn sites together. And he, so my background, I’m a computer scientist, I’m a software engineer and my father is a photographer. So those are, those are the skills that I’m sort of born with. And my ex, my ex is a graphic designer. And so we would look at these sites and, and he would say, boy, the graphic design looks so rudimentary.

And I would say on the photography, lighting is awful. And we play around with the site and the site was clunky and slow and not intuitive. And, and we both talk about how bad the user experience is. And we kept saying to each other boy between the two of us, we, we actually have the skillset to do this and do it better. And after I don’t remember exactly, but something like five or six months of saying that we finally said, you know what, like, why not do a little side project?

And, and, and just kind of throw this to the wall, build, build what we would want to see in a porn site and hope that other people think so too. And we didn’t tell any of our friends, it was a big kind of secret. And then a year later it was paying all of our bills and I quit my day job and we call up to all of our friends.

Speaker 1 (7m 0s): Wow. Wow. So

Speaker 2 (7m 2s): That’s about 14 years ago.

Speaker 1 (7m 4s): Yeah. Like many, like many good things that happened by accident.

Speaker 2 (7m 9s): For sure.

Speaker 1 (7m 10s): So I find it unusual for performers to also be entrepreneurs. At least that used to be the case. That’d be for fan sites, like just for fans as one of the original performer entrepreneurs. How does that feel?

Speaker 2 (7m 27s): So I definitely started as the entrepreneur first and the model second sort of, I built, I built the site and, and we, we, and made the site was always models who we would hire. And it wasn’t, I was never on the site until later in, in the game. And the reason for that is I always wanted to be. And so every year I would film something with a model and just to see if my body was ready, if I looked fat on camera, you know, like, and I did that probably for, for three or four years, like once a year I would film something and I would say to the model, and, you know, I would pay them off as before.

And I would say like, just FYI, this, this may never see the light of day. This is more of a screen test for myself. And, and it wasn’t until three or four years of doing that. We’re finally, I was like, you know what? This is, I I’m finally good enough to try being on camera without being super, super embarrassed. And in fact, the funny thing is like, I’ve stopped. I’ve stopped being in front of camera now because I have no time. And I’m actually in the best shape of my life. And I feel like, boy, now I want to get back into it just to, just to show people what a 46 year old can look like.

Speaker 1 (8m 47s): I love it now, just for fans thinks about more than just the fan model relationship. Now, you also facilitate models, helping and finding other models. How do you do that?

Speaker 2 (9m 1s): So of the unique things that just were fans has over its competitors is again, we are not simply an e-commerce engine trying to make money. We’re not a money machine. We really be because we come from sex workers. We really try to think about the whole, the whole life of the model. And that is not just once a video is filmed. How do I make money from it?

So, so this lifecycle of the model includes finding models to work with sharing. They’re sharing the content with each other and then posting the continent and potentially sharing the revenue. So this is a much broader sense of, of, of the world. So we, so just start with the third prong, the first prong of, of those three prongs, how do, how do we facilitate models, finding other models? We have an app on this site called finder.

If anybody who’s listening knows what Grindr is. A Grindr is an app for gay men that, that geo geo locates people. So you can see who’s near you. So, so, and then you can talk to them and, and hookup or whatnot. So we have our version of that called finder. It’s for everybody on the site, obviously not just the guys and it’s only for verified models and it’s, opt-in only, so if you don’t want people to know where you live, then you don’t have to, and it has a ton of cool functionality. So I can, so right now, for example, I’m in, in Puerto Vallarta, I can go on to finder and see what other, just for fans verified models are in port of aorta or, or the, or the vicinity.

And I can send them a note either on Twitter or on just your fans. I can do a search if I’m going to, if I’m going to Paris next week, I can do a search from here on Paris, France and see who’s in Paris. And even more than that, I can, I can tell this site that I’m going to be traveling to Paris next week so that if anybody else searches for Paris in that timeframe, my name will come up.

Speaker 1 (11m 9s): That’s cool. That’s really cool

Speaker 2 (11m 13s): To help models meet each other.

Speaker 1 (11m 15s): Yeah. How did, how did that all come about?

Speaker 2 (11m 18s): Well, again, I mean, I use the site, you know, especially during the, the, during the beginning, I, I have my own page with more updated at the, at the beginning of the, of the, of the, of the, you know, our life. But, but I use, I use the site and I think that if you have somebody who wrote the site using the site on a daily basis, they say, oh boy, I wish this site could do X, but I can then go build it that night. Right. You know, and I remember, I remember the day that the idea came up is I was, I was actually, most of my good ideas happened in the gym because I talked to my trainer, like he’s a therapist.

And I tell him all my problems.

Speaker 1 (11m 57s): I love it.

Speaker 2 (11m 58s): And I remember, and I distinctly remember this day, where one day I was saying, boy, you know, I know there’s a lot of people in Fort Lauderdale to film with, but I just don’t know who they are. And it’s, if you ask somebody on Grindr, if they want to film, then if they report you, you get your account banned. And I had gotten my account, my account and grinder banned four or five times for quote-unquote soliciting, even though I wasn’t solicited, there’s no money changing hands. And I remember saying to him, I wish that there was some kind of a grinder that we could use for models.

And then I said, and it was like Eureka. I’m like, well, I’m going to build that tonight. Like I have, I have, I’m a computer, I’m an engineer. Like I can do these things.

Speaker 1 (12m 40s): Yeah. And that’s that, that’s something that makes you guys so much different because, you know, as a performer and as a member of the industry, you’ve really built the site for you and people like you.

Speaker 2 (12m 56s): For sure. For sure. And, and the great thing about our community is that I may have a great idea. Our staff might have a great idea. Users might have our models may have great ideas, and they know that we’re super, super agile and super, super adaptable. Because if you have a good idea, give me a day, you know, like, you know, hold my beer and I’m going to build it for you. And so a ton of great features on the site, I’ll give you another one. So another way that we help with that, we facilitate models, connecting with each other is that you like on Facebook verified models, can friend other models.

And what that means is they see your content for free. You see their content for free, and you can, you can comment. And like each other’s posts and you can’t do that easily on other platforms. And how did that come about? They came back. And again, I remember this day, very clearly I was in the car talking to a model on the phone and or maybe it was texting, what was that? I was in the car. So it’s probably the phone

Speaker 1 (13m 59s): I’m driving. Very good.

Speaker 2 (14m 0s): You can drive kids, don’t text and drive. And I remember him saying, how do I give a free promo code to a model I just worked with? And I’m like, why do you want to do that? And he said, because I want him to be able to comment. And like, on my end, like things on my page, so we can cross vote each other as if, as if we were friends on Facebook. And he said that he said that phrase. And I said, well, why don’t we build a feature that has a friend feature like on Facebook because you’re using, you know, I, I, he was using the tools available to achieve his goal, which was giving this guy a promo to do X, Y, and Z.

But that didn’t, that was a solution that was an odd solution to the problem he was having. So I’m like, why don’t we actually fix the problem instead of shoehorn the existing functionality into a solution.

Speaker 1 (14m 52s): Right. And knowing you, Dominic, I’m guessing that that’s not a rare exception where you speak to the performers.

Speaker 2 (15m 0s): Oh, no. I, I, it daily on a daily basis. I mean, again, I mean, I, I’ve had a porn studio that I started 14 years ago and ran it for 12 years. I stopped at two years ago when gestures answer golf because I had a time, but my entire life, my ecosystem is models. And so I hear, and they have no qualms texting me at three in the morning telling me what’s not working or what they wish the site could do differently.

Speaker 1 (15m 25s): That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So other sites, as you know, are throwing off models, but just for fans is known for supporting models. What kind of performers on your are on your site and what kinds are you looking for to add to the site?

Speaker 2 (15m 42s): You know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a good question. And also sort of an existential crisis question for me, because a lot of, a lot of people know us as a, as a gay site

Speaker 1 (15m 55s): Began, I was going to ask you about that.

Speaker 2 (15m 57s): I come from the gang side of the industry and when I started, who do I notice say, Hey, look at my site. It’s the gay side. Of course, for sure. We are overwhelmingly, I’ll say queer. I would love, I would love more women to use the site. It’s it’s to be quite honest and show my cards. It’s been very difficult to get straight women straight CIS women to use the site. And, and I don’t, I don’t know if it’s, you know, because they don’t want to be on a site that, that is known to be more gay or they think their audience won’t go there.

I, I don’t know what it is, but it’s, it’s not, it’s not been easy there. The people who are very success and, and sometimes when they’ve come, there’s not been the traffic for them just to be again, to be, you know, to, to show all my cards and, and not, and not pull punches here. The, the people who, who are successful, who are very successful in the site are gay men, trans men and trans women and CIS women who are, who are in various fetish niches that maybe they can’t have at other sites.

So for example, the ABD El community and the fisting community and the fin Dom community, like they do very well on our site. And, and I, and I hate to say it it’s mainly because they, they can’t be on only fans, but they have found refuge on our site. And, and I’m hoping that the more mainstream women do also, but I never want to turn my back on, on the people who’ve supported us for four years, which is the, the gay, the gay male audience.

Speaker 1 (17m 39s): Yeah, no, absolutely. Actually I have some ideas on that. We’ll have to talk about when we finished the interview. I it’s something just sprung to mind. Yeah. Got some keys for you. So you’re also known for supporting the community and you’re the only platform that gives to many charities. What do you do for charities and why do you do

Speaker 2 (17m 59s): So, you know, you’re sort of hitting on all the differentiators that we have over our competitors, which, which I appreciate. So, you know, we, we’re, we’re part of this community and, and, and that takes on a couple different manifestations. And one, one manifestation before we talk about charities is that we sponsor parties, events, award shows, but before COVID, we were sponsoring 20 or 30 events mainly in the, in the queer space a month.

Cool. And, and we, and we published, and the first of the month we publish, we publish a calendar of, you know, we’re this, this underwear party in Las Vegas, and this party here, and then this award show there. And, and we’re ramping that up now, again, we did some online stuff, but during COVID, but now we’re ramping that up again, as things open up. Cool. So, so we spend tons of money just in sponsorships for small, small, and big events all across the country and across the world. And then we have our charitable giving arm.

No other organization that I’m aware of in the adult industry has a, has a, a systemic built in charitable giving arm, which this was a giant mission of mine. Every year when we started, I had like big goals the years, what your one goal was to get some kind of a healthcare package for a models, which we did.

Speaker 1 (19m 28s): Wow. Congratulations. Thank you

Speaker 2 (19m 30s): Again. No one else, no one else does this. And, and, and your two was to figure out how we can give back to the community. And so what we did is we set up on a search for charities who would work with us because they’re at the, of, at the time, there were not, there were a lot who said no big, like big charities who didn’t want our, our poor money. So we launched with four or five

Speaker 1 (19m 55s): Isn’t that just ridiculous their goal supposed to be, to raise money yet, if it comes from dirty porn, we don’t want your money.

Speaker 2 (20m 3s): Yeah. And it was like, I don’t remember. I don’t want to throw anybody under the bus because my memory is bad, but it was like, I mean, like glad and the Trevor project and, and gay gay charities did not. What’s the one, what’s the one for, for older gays. Oh, shoot. I can’t remember. Well, anyway, but yeah, they, they didn’t want our money, you know, they didn’t want to be associated. So like we’ll find,

Speaker 1 (20m 26s): You know, and, and the fact, and the fact that the, the LGBTQ plus people have been persecuted for so long for them to further persecute, I think is just so hypocritical. It’s just amazing.

Speaker 2 (20m 42s): Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s so, you know, so whatever. So we found the charities who are happy working with us and, and we, so, so basically, so, so models, models can choose to give any percentage of their income to any number of our charities. They can pick any combination of our charities. And so, and you as a user, can you see that on their page? How, what percentage they’re giving to what charity, but you can also search on the site and rank the models by how much they’re giving to charity, just in, in the mainstream world, this is called ethical spending.

It’s the idea that I, as a consumer, want to put my money into organizations who put their money into causes, I believe in, and that idea just does not exist in the portal. And I, I come from mainstream e-commerce before I was important, I was building some of the largest.com websites in the world, and that’s not hyperbole that’s that’s reality. And, and that was beginning to be a thing back then. And so I take some of those lessons into my, my porn world and say, well, no, one’s doing this.

So now that I have a platform that could actually make a difference, I’m going to. And so we, I think, is it January 1st, we released a press release that we had raised over $100,000 in, in charitable donations to these charities.

Speaker 1 (22m 11s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (22m 12s): And that, and black and black lives matter, which we started during the height of the L BLM move in a year and a half ago. I think that accounts for something like $40,000 by itself.

Speaker 1 (22m 25s): Oh, that’s great. That’s great. Who else, who else you guys give? Who else are you guys giving to?

Speaker 2 (22m 30s): Our charities include black lives matter, $46,000. So far trans lifeline, which is about 20, over $21,000 Woodhall freedom foundation. They are the lobbying firm that’s fighting against assessed to foster,

Speaker 1 (22m 47s): Right? Right.

Speaker 2 (22m 49s): Pineapple support, which provides mental health to the adult industry. We

Speaker 1 (22m 54s): Sponsor there’s. I think you are too.

Speaker 2 (22m 56s): Yeah. The HIV league. This is a, this is a really great organization that gives, that gives scholarships to college students living with HIV.

Speaker 1 (23m 10s): Wow. Wow. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of field goal feel good stuff.

Speaker 2 (23m 15s): Yeah. And just a couple more. So swap sex workers, outreach project, there are a sex worker organization, and a point of pride is a, is another trans trans nonprofit. And then also the free speech coalition. And we just added last week, gay and sober, which is a, an organization for w as, as the name would clearly imply gay, sober people looking to, to connect in and, and have programming and events and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (23m 43s): That’s fantastic. So, so other fan platforms require models to bring their own traffic. Do you?

Speaker 2 (23m 52s): We certainly love when people bring their own traffic. I won’t say no to it, but no. One of the big things, the big differential differentiators of our site is that we do everything we can to introduce you the model to people, to fans on the site who don’t know you, and we try to make you sales. And, and in fact, we did a we number crunched a year ago. So I’m not sure where these numbers are currently, but about a year ago, we, we number crunch this and about one third, 30% of any particular models, sales came from internal traffic.

Speaker 1 (24m 33s): Great.

Speaker 2 (24m 34s): Which is a much larger number than I frankly had anticipated. So, so because we’re, so we’re a porn site. Let, let, let me put that out there. Just for fans is a porn site. And when you look at our competitors, they will talk to you about their tennis pros and their chefs. And they will not say we have sex workers. So, so what does that mean that we can do that they can’t do. We can highlight our performers so you can search on the site.

You can search by, by genders and you can search by categories like twink and bear and MILF and, and whatnot. And so, so, and then models who are friends with other models in this sort of Facebook friendly thing. I was talking about every model on their, on their page has a list of their friends. And so if I’m a user and I like model X, I can see who their friends are. And, and even more than that, my, my background is in artificial intelligence.

It’s I out of college, I was, I was working at an AI think tank present as a programmer. And so there’s an AI component to our site where you have subscribed to, I think it’s three or more people. There’s a whole page dedicated just in showing you other models that we think you might like, based on you’re already subscribed to.

Speaker 1 (25m 57s): That’s really cool, not enough, not enough people in, and don’t take advantage of that.

Speaker 2 (26m 1s): That paid makes a ton of money for models. And this is all internal track. We track, we track everything. So every

Speaker 1 (26m 8s): Sale

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): You can track back to how that sale was made. Be it an internal tool or your external Twitter or Instagram or, or whatnot, we track everything. Or the, the stats that we give our models are, are, are, are parallel to nobody. And so we can tell exactly what is doing well on the site. And yeah. So everything that we can do to make our models, money beyond the traffic, only that, that, that they’re bringing themselves. We do.

Speaker 1 (26m 34s): Yeah. I’d tell you if I was a model you would have already sold me. Now you have an exclusive program. Why would a model be adjust for fans?

Speaker 2 (26m 44s): Right. So again, I, I think we’re the only people to do this too, but I, I, I don’t keep up with our competition, so sure. So regularly, anymore, I don’t really know. I think we’re the only people who have an exclusive program. So we, we give 80% to our models and we keep 20%. And if you’re an exclusive to us, you get a few things. The most important thing to most people is the money. You get 85% on almost everything launches versus 80%. Yeah.

So, and that’s, there’s lots of different ways to make money on the site. So 85% covers most of those. And, and then we have an exclusives page that just lists our exclusives. And every day, this site highlights one model that is listed on the top of every browse page, where you’re browsing list of models. And every day we highlight in a long form question and answer one model. And if you’re cool. Yeah, right. So it’s another way that we highlight models.

And if you’re an exclusive model, there’s a calendaring feature where you can select what days you want to be featured. Every everybody can get featured. If, if there’s a day that’s not accounted for, by an exclusive, the system will randomly look at other models. Who’ve been active in the last two weeks and featured them, but exclusive get first dibs on whatever days they want.

Speaker 1 (28m 9s): Sure, sure. So what difference does it make in your corporate mission, who you hire on your staff?

Speaker 2 (28m 16s): 100% of our staff is sex workers or people who have been in the adult industry for well over 10 years. And it’s mainly sex workers. And when I say 100%, I mean, 100%, especially because I’m, I mean, I’m the developer. And, and normally everybody would be like, oh, we hired this, this front person to be the face of our company, but the developers and the lawyer, and, you know, the back end, people are in a customer service people.

They’re not sex workers. Well, ours, ours are either sex workers or people in the industry, our entire customer service team, all of them. Let me just make sure that’s right. All, but one has their own page on just your fans. The one that doesn’t has been helping chatter bait models for like 13 or 14 years with strategy and whatnot. So he’s, so he’s in the industry. He’s just not on the page. The other, the other four of them all have pages on their website.

You know, my lawyer’s been in the industry for, for God knows, 15 or 20 years. So all of this goes back to when, when you talk to our customer service people, very using this site as well, and maybe they know a better way to skin the cat you’re trying to skin, or, or maybe they’re having the same problem you’re having, you know, and, and can bug me about it. There’s a level of empathy to our company in that our default stance is to side with the model.

And a lot of our competitors, their default stance is to side against the model.

Speaker 1 (30m 5s): Yeah. I’ve heard, I’ve heard that looking at some of the, the forums and stuff, some of the boards you S you see a lot of complaints about a lot of companies. I can’t say I’ve seen any about you guys.

Speaker 2 (30m 17s): Yeah, no. I mean, we, we, we do our best to do right by models.

Speaker 1 (30m 20s): That’s awesome. Now you’ve referred to your platform as a friendly disrupter to the industry. What does that mean? And why are you proud of it?

Speaker 2 (30m 30s): So this kind of goes back to this idea of who, who can make money on the site. When, when only fan started, I was the owner of a studio and all of the studios were crazy afraid of only fans because it locked out studios. It’s great that it gave models, freedom, freedom, and agency, and an economy. That’s awesome. But, but what happens when that, when, when, when that happens is that it’s harder for studios to be successful.

It’s harder for agents to make money because agents are not making money on fan content scenes. They’re making money on studio scenes. I’m sure the bloggers who always write about studio porn and make money from their links to the, the, to the studios via affiliate links, aren’t making money because people are looking at only fans. So, so this, so that’s, so only fans was a disruptor. We want it to be a friendly disruptors saying, we, we understand that all these other people want to be able to make money and not, and we don’t want them to be afraid of us.

And so if you’re an agent, you can have an agency on the site and, and, and get a percentage from your models. If you’re an affiliate, you can be an affiliate on our site and make money. When you send traffic to us. If you’re, if you’re a photographer or you own a physical studio, or you’re a camera man, or you’re an editor, we can have a plate. We have a place in our site. That’s sort of a marketplace where you can say, I am an, I’m an editor. And I used to edit for, for studios, but now I’m editing for anybody who wants to hire me.

So we really, we really think about the ecosystem in a, in a way that we want everyone to be involved. And I’ll give you one more point. So studios who are on the platform, certainly people, people do better than the studios. And so I sort of started to think, well, how can, how can studios harness their models in a way to make money? So there’s even a way in our system, if you are a studio and, and you’re on platform and you upload a movie that’s, that’s for sale, it’s an individual for sale thing in the store.

You can tell the models who are in that movie, who are on just for fans to put a link to it on their adjuster fans page. And if a sale comes from them, they get a percentage that the studio decides nine. So there’s, there’s, there’s. So there’s like many affiliate system built into just real fans where anybody who sells that product on behalf of the studio can share in some income. And so this is yet another way we’re trying to bridge the gap between the studio, the studio business model and, and the, the fan model centric business model.

Speaker 1 (33m 23s): Yeah. And, you know, ever since the, the fan sites went up, a lot of people in our industry have taken a hit because the fan sites have sucked up a lot of the oxygen. And of course, a lot of the money. And, you know, I, I, I think that’s great what you’re doing, because what you’re doing is you’re putting money back in people’s pockets that had been losing it.

Speaker 2 (33m 48s): Yeah. I mean, we have some studios that sort of went out of business and exists now only on just for fans, because we have the traffic. I mean, do studios do as well as, as individual models, you know, I’m not going to make any bones about that. They don’t. However, we have so much traffic that we have, we have so much more traffic than those individuals studios ever had. I mean, there was a, there’s a website that just listed all of the, on the gay side anyway, all of the gay studios and, and their traffic numbers.

And we are bigger than I think all of them combined. And so there’s a lot of reasons for a studio to want to at least have some kind of a, a finger in our plan.

Speaker 1 (34m 38s): Sure. Isn’t that amazing to you as a performer, that performers can make the kind of money they make on these fan sites.

Speaker 2 (34m 47s): It is incredible. It’s not a hyperbole to say that on a weekly basis, I, I hear from someone whose life has been changed, and these are especially coming from the studio world. And again, I was a producer, so I know, I know how this all works and how much models get paid and models get paid once they get a flat rate and that’s it. And if their movie or DVD is the worst movie released this year, or the best movie in the last 10 years, they made their thousand dollars or their $1,500 or their $400.

Speaker 1 (35m 25s): Not really fair.

Speaker 2 (35m 26s): Yeah. And, and, and so these really famous models, I mean, you know, it’s funny where like, you know, fame and fame and wealth are very distinct ideas, especially in the studio world. You can be the most famous model in the world and have two, $2 to you because you didn’t work in the last six months and you didn’t get paid that much to begin with. But now these models have agency. They have a passive, recurring income that they never had before. We can help them get health insurance.

I mean, it’s just a whole new world, and I know models who were making half a million dollars a year or more on just your fans. And, and these are models that would have been making $20,000 a year. If they were just doing studio work,

Speaker 1 (36m 11s): That’s gotta feel good to be a part of that.

Speaker 2 (36m 13s): It’s, you know, if somebody years ago once asked me what my favorite day of the week was, I, I, and I know it sounds super, super, super corny, and I, if you’re listening to this and you’re rolling your eyes, I’m sorry, but Wednesday, Wednesdays are my favorite day because that’s our payroll date. And I see how many people, we are giving money to getting money. And she’s not the right. How many, how many people are earning money on our site? How much money we are putting in the pockets of our models.

And I know models who bought houses, I know models who have pay their way through school, who paid for health care for their parents. Like, I mean, these are real world, real world differences, not just, oh, I got, I got nicer shoes. No.

Speaker 1 (36m 60s): Right, right. That’s crazy. So what are some of the key features of just for fans that your competitors don’t have?

Speaker 2 (37m 8s): Boy, we’ve talked about so many of them,

Speaker 1 (37m 11s): Well, any you haven’t mentioned

Speaker 2 (37m 12s): Well, so, so for example, on, on only fans specifically, I don’t, I don’t usually like to address competitors head on, but, but just thinking of them specifically, I know a lot of people have a free only fans page and a paid only fans page, which I just see as it’s a waste of time and effort. So with our site, any post that you make, you can decide is a free post or only for your subscribers. And, and then anybody can follow your page for free, which means they just see, they just see on their, on their amalgamated homepage, which, which collects all the new stuff from people they’re subscribed to.

They’ll also see your stuff. But if they’re not subscribed to you, they’ll see the, the non-subscriber version, which has maybe a blurry picture or a preview, but they can at least, but you can still stay top of mind to them. But if you have something for free, they’ll see it for free. And so you don’t want it to maintain a separate free page. Your page can be as free as you want it to be. And there’s no exact line, a direct line to convert them, to paying subscribers versus saying, click on this other page, which is my other site. I promise you it’s really me.

Speaker 1 (38m 25s): Yeah. It’s kind of clunky.

Speaker 2 (38m 27s): Yeah. So, I mean, so that’s one feature, God, I mean, there’s so many, I mean, we just, just as far as this and this comes because I’m, I was a model uploading something to our competitor sites. I had to create a preview for it. And I had to make a tweak for it. Our site, you can choose how long you want the preview to be. It makes the preview by itself. It tweets, it tweets out the preview by itself. If you’re an exclusive and you can’t film for two months, for whatever reason, or you’re offline for two months, you can tell our system every day, just to tweet an old video of yours, just to make people think you’re still current and around and keep you top of mind.

Speaker 1 (39m 10s): That’s cool.

Speaker 2 (39m 11s): For example, and we’re chock full of stuff like this,

Speaker 1 (39m 15s): Any, any exciting features coming up?

Speaker 2 (39m 19s): We just, well, not just anymore. I guess three, two months ago, three months ago, we had a retreat of the staff. We went to Disney world and which was a lot of fun. And part of that retreat was to sit and brainstorm ideas for the future. And that included what are our users are asking for and what we all, because they’re all because my whole staff is on the site itself, but they would be helpful, et cetera. And we came up with this ginormous list of features.

One, one feature for example, is playlist. So now I, as a model, can group any number of my scenes in a specific order into a playlist

Speaker 1 (40m 3s): Of cool like

Speaker 2 (40m 3s): Music, let’s say. Yeah. So let’s say, for example, if I have a good example, let’s say for example, that I’m, I routinely work with model X. I work with tons of models, but I, I worked with model X a lot, and I know that the two of us have a chemistry that people keep wanting to see. I can now make a playlist that is just our movies together. Or people are into fetish X that I do well, here’s a collection of the fetish X scenes that I do.

And, and I can post those on my timeline. And, and, and so this was a feature that was requested and we took it one step further. So now users can across the whole site, make their own timelines for their pages. So if there’s, if there’s 15 models, I like, and, and there I have favorite scenes through each of them. I can collect those favorite scenes into my own playlist that I can either share publicly on my page or just private to myself. Cool. So for instance, that’s a huge feature that we launched that came out of that meeting and yes, there are, there are tons more so stay tuned.

Speaker 1 (41m 12s): Okay. So how has COVID changed things for, just for France?

Speaker 2 (41m 17s): Well, it’s no, it’s no secret that COVID was very good for the adult industry. People were home. People still had money to spend and people watch porn. And it was also good for models who maybe were toying with the idea of getting into the industry or who, who then began to think about other ways to make money. And so we saw this a gigantic influx of, of both models and customers, and, and even now as, as COVID is, I dare say in his latter days, cause who the hell knows what’s coming next?

Speaker 1 (41m 55s): Yeah. It was like, sounded like Freddy Krueger. You never know that he’s actually gone away.

Speaker 2 (41m 59s): Yeah. So don’t quote me on that one, but, but I, with the, but now that we’ve learned to live our lives, co-existing with COVID numbers have not gone down. I think some, I think some models who joined the site just to see if they can make money because they’re other jobs were laid them off or what have you maybe went back to those lives and are not doing anymore, but frankly that’s fine. It’s, it’s kind of the people who weren’t that serious about it are, are leaving.

And that leaves more opportunity to leave for the people who actually view this as a, as a job

Speaker 1 (42m 35s): In, and if they made money, I’m sure they’re still doing it

Speaker 2 (42m 37s): For, for sure.

Speaker 1 (42m 39s): So besides features, what’s next for, just for fans,

Speaker 2 (42m 43s): Let’s see. We, we always have an annual party and we did not last year, obviously because of COVID and this year, again, we, we were planning it and then Omicron happened and I think we’re going to not do it again this year, but, but when we have our events, we it’s, we it’s three of them. There’s a models, only party where models can feel comfortable and safe in a safe environment just to meet each other. And certainly tons of models, film at the party and, and, and at the hotels where we’re at, et cetera, we have a second party, that’s a public party where models can meet fans and vice versa.

And then we have a, and then we have a day of seminars and seminars and workshops. Last, last time we did it. I think there were four or five expert panels, all made up of models on the, on the site that been into various categories or have certain expertise, teaching, teaching people, their secrets, how to be successful, how they’re successful, what tricks and tools they’ve learned along the road. And it’s, I cannot tell you how many models, even the experienced ones who are maybe successful at studio porn, but maybe don’t know how to market themselves as well, because they never had to listen to these workshops and immediately had 20 or 30 things to try the next day to make themselves more profitable.

And so we’re going to, so this year the parties are probably not going to happen, but we will do this learning event virtually for our models because it was it’s too important to not do it. Yeah. So, I mean, so that’s on the horizon and, and we’re sponsoring a ton of award shows. The, the trans erotic awards are coming up, that we’re a major sponsor of gravity’s Europe, Grabbys America and the experts award and the, the expert is a show we just did. So, you know, and we’re, and we’re ramping up on our events again.

So we’re, we’re kind of also placed.

Speaker 1 (44m 42s): That’s great. So last question, what’s your goal for just for fans?

Speaker 2 (44m 47s): So I kind of alluded to this earlier, but the people, the models who are on just for fans have found a safe space where they don’t have to have anxiety over weather today. When I wake up is today, the day that my account gets shut down or, or videos on my account get removed because I have somehow violated some new terms of service that sprung up overnight, that no one told us about Our, our models don’t have those issues.

And, and I would love the rest of the industry. Who’s not on just for fans. And, and that includes the, the gay guys who are not on us, but also includes the, the large groups of, of other types of people like straight women, straight CIS women, for example, who just haven’t really considered us for whatever their reasons to, to realize that, that we’re, we’re probably the safest home that that is around right now.

Speaker 1 (45m 50s): Yeah. Yeah. I’m surprised more didn’t flock to you after the whole only fans fiasco.

Speaker 2 (45m 56s): Well, you know, it’s, it’s funny and this is maybe a tangent and, but a lot of these people at that moment said, why, why isn’t there a site built by someone in the industry that we can trust? And I’m like, well, there is,

Speaker 1 (46m 11s): Hello.

Speaker 2 (46m 12s): Hi, been here for, for, at that time three and a half years, but, but the straight side really kind of either turn their nose up at us or wasn’t aware of us or, or something. I don’t want to put words in their, in their mouth. And then a news, a news site came along who I’m not going to name. And they grabbed a bunch of the women from only fans and promised them 90% for three or six months or something. And here’s a new site, not from the industry and nobody knows who owns it.

And all of the women went there and it really,

Speaker 1 (46m 46s): They went because somebody flashed the cash in front of them.

Speaker 2 (46m 49s): Yeah. Someone flashed the cash and all of this moral high ground of why isn’t there a site built for us from us. They didn’t care because they saw 90%. And so that makes me throw my hands up and be like, you know, what, if, if you’re never going to come to us, then I will, I will spend my time elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (47m 10s): Never’s a long time. Dominic, never’s a long time.

Speaker 2 (47m 13s): So, I mean, I mean, maybe we do the same thing. Maybe we, we flashed the cash, but, but if, but if people are so fickle, I mean, I learned this from my dot-com days, my, my main street.com days, if, if people are only interested in your brand, because of the discounts that you give and, or in this case, the incentives that you give, then they will leave you the minute someone else does one better. Right. And those are the people that I want.

Speaker 1 (47m 37s): Yeah, no, I understand now as it should be. Well, Hey, Dominic, I’d like to thank you for being our guests to Dan adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (47m 48s): I appreciate it. And thank you for the time and the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (47m 52s): Hey man, it was a blast. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, find new ways to monetize your site, such as sell advertising. If you’ve got a free site, like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site. If you have a tube, another way to make more money is to sell premium memberships, offer free users, one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality or longer videos or both.

You can also make the site ad free for premium members. Start an affiliate program. If you have a pay site, this is a great way to increase your quality of traffic and get more joints with all sites. You can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell to your users. Pay sites can also sell, pay per view, where people have the option of paying by the scene for content they can’t get on the site. This is also another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee, sell them other products like toys and novelties market, your business, do things to improve your search engine results.

There are some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our site list, all of the benefits of your site and your marketing and how they affect the user. And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firms, such as adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time check services you pay for like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options.

Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch. Plus got higher quality hosting in the process. Again, ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost-effectively along with this, make your profit and loss statement, show more profit, increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that make sure your P and L statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal expenses you put in. This will cost you money when you sell it may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you.

If you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement, remember every dollar in profit increases the value of your website. As much as three to four times, this is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars, more on their sale just by adjusting the P and L statement to accurately reflect actual business expenses as to oppose to a bunch of tax BS. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Mike <inaudible> of the free speech coalition.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Dominic Ford. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Brad Mitchell of Mojohost.

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1 (1m 40s):
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1 (2m 20s):
Only 1.5 million euros. Now time for this week’s interview. So what would you call the turning points in the development of our industry as a whole in the last 20 years?

2 (2m 35s):
I would say three things. So first thing, right out of the gate, between in my ops, these are all my observations between course 2000, 2000 2006, probably 2005, 2006. For me, I remember it was significant because I had to move my data center operations from Michigan to a larger data center in a state that was better networked, but was when video became rich and big. So for those of you listening, you know, it wasn’t always the case that there was free videos online, everywhere. Like it was actually the case back in those years, I recall all of the free galleries and promotions were images.

2 (3m 19s):
And I remember going to conferences where people were debating giving away seven to 15 second video clips saying, well, why would somebody, why would somebody ever buy if you’re going to give them this much content for free, not behind a page. Right. So I think very, I think very early on that was a paradigm shift because all of a sudden we were changing how we were entertaining people behind and in front of the paywall. So I think that that was significant. And I would time that to 2006, because of the recent I moved my desk, my data center, and back then the 200 servers, 250 servers I had in Michigan down to Miami was I couldn’t buy access to the internet at rates that would make me globally competitive.

2 (4m 1s):
And this was now relevant because we were pushing weight for it, a couple of gigabit, which, which back then cost very, very different dollars. Right?

1 (4m 12s):
So I remember that too.

2 (4m 14s):
So that was significant. I think the next paradigm shift happened quite literally about five years later. And this was the advent of tube sites. So this was the difference in mindset and, and delivery and site design between having reasonably sized promotions that were out there and given the whole thing away for free, so around. And I’m sure I’m, I’m, I’m not precise on the air, but sometime between 2009, 2011, this became prevalent. And the first tube sites that were online, they had all stolen content and the laws really weren’t caught up with the technology. So there was no terms to enforcement, but basically the idea was let’s go rip everyone’s videos and, or log into their members, areas, download their videos, cause those are the best ones.

2 (5m 4s):
And then let’s post them for free and then let’s take their watermarks up and we’ll put watermarks on for our site or other shit that we want to promote. And then let’s design a website that has advertisements for everything else except for their website. So let’s promote ed products, let’s promote other video sites let’s promote live cam websites. So this was a fundamental shift, right? So this in dating, right? Especially with dating and all this other stuff in life camps, right? So this was, this was what I considered to be the second paradigm shift in the adult internet of things. Because at this point you had a divergence, you had some people with new thinking. Basically, the guy is starting from zero.

2 (5m 44s):
It’s like, Hey, I got nothing to lose and everything to gain, right? So, and a lot of them multinational, not necessarily based in north America. So not even, not even necessarily subject to these kinds of laws and things like this, right? So they go and they launch these sites and of course they get, you know, this is, this is a huge deal. And they start getting tremendous traffic and this starts growing. But that, that was significant because that was the first nail in the coffin to premium site owners, which was the way back then, there were not really sites that were huge, that were selling paperclip. I know that this was always a part of the business model for ABN and they’re still successful. And they were then, and also for hot movies.

2 (6m 25s):
And I’m sure also for clips for sale at that time. But then, but then there was 10 or 20,000 other premium sites that charged 9 99 to 39 99 a month that didn’t have any individual consumption. Right. And a lot of those site owners, I think that this is when their business started to change. Of course they were all infuriated and wouldn’t everybody, if your stuff is being stolen, posted in someone else’s profiting and you’re getting nothing, but see, but see what happened in those moments. And for the years, the next couple of years that followed is what did those business owners do to react to a complete change in the environment.

2 (7m 6s):
You have the business owners that adapted, and those are going to be the ones, those are the ones that were Julie that are very successful today and still in business. And then you have the ones that didn’t have the ones that

1 (7m 17s):
Just bitched the ones that just bitched. Yeah, I remember.

2 (7m 21s):
Yeah. And, and, you know, to their credit, a lot of them did what they were supposed to do. They went and they hired lawyers and DMC agents, and they started sending out notices to play whack-a-mole to get content removed. And that is certainly one of the right reactions is always to protect your trademark and your copywriting.

1 (7m 36s):
Absolutely.

2 (7m 37s):
But the ones that became the most successful are the ones that morphed and said, well, this is, this is really changing how everything’s being consumed and I need to modify my business. So they started creating content, you know, and this is, I think really when we had at sort of at the same moment in time is when reality sites came a thing, wasn’t a thing before then it became a thing around that. This is around that moment. You know, like, I, I don’t know if it was bang bus or which way, you know, which one of the first ones we claim that notoriety, but a lot of sites got, got really, really smart. And they said, well, shit, these sites have all the traffic. And so instead of flight with them, let’s focus on producing our good content. Let’s try to partner with them.

2 (8m 18s):
And that’s how they drove traffic to their sites. And that’s how they got their tens of thousands of members. And that’s how they wrote their history. So that was the second paradigm shift. I think the third paradigm shift is something that’s happened within the last few years, but fully come to maturity probably started about five years at five to six years after that, but really came into its own and full maturity two to three years ago. And this is what we see with only fans and flip sites Because now everything has changed. Right? So now in this day and age, you know, we’ve all got an iPhone or an Android and we’re all consuming all the time on our Netflix or, you know, using the apple store by eclipse and media and doing other things in music.

2 (8m 58s):
Yeah. So I think this is different because this shift takes power away from say the large monolithic platforms that owned the rights to all of the content and in a very certain way. Now there, of course there are new large platforms, but really what’s happened is they’ve given the power back to the producers of the content because in this wasteland and devastation after tube sites happened, there was, you know, we went from having such a huge quantity of content producers to a much, much smaller quantity, right? So, you know, things kind of dried up before they started to expand again. And now what we see is, you know, there are all of these terrific platforms and, you know, there’s five or 10 really big ones.

2 (9m 44s):
You know, obviously the largest one where everybody knows what that one is, but there are hundreds of thousands of content producers. And that’s all very, very interesting. And the smart plug in this smart platforms realize they’re not even going to try to fight the competition, even some of these campsites too. You know, if you go and you look at, if you go, when you look@myfreecams.com and you’ve got, you know, cam girls on there selling their entertainment services, they’re not prohibited from promoting their, their eyeline Crips or their, their clips for sale or their only fans, or the fact that they might take money through that platform and then do a Skype show.

2 (10m 27s):
So I think that’s very interesting. So I think that’s, that’s the most recent paradigm shift because that’s the big deal.

1 (10m 34s):
Absolutely. Yep. So what are some cornerstone technological advances that has affected the business since you’ve been a web host, an adult?

2 (10m 44s):
So I think with this it’s, I mean, obviously at mojo hosts, I’ve, I’m actually, so despite the fact that I’m fun to drink and party with and go out and have dinners and I like to go dancing and everybody knows that I’m actually the it buyer. So every like every hard drive CPU, motherboard choice that’s ever been made, every nut screw bolt cable for all of the tens of millions of dollars in IQ buying, I’ve actually been the one that narrowed it out and figured out all of that.

1 (11m 10s):
Okay.

2 (11m 11s):
So the biggest technological advances of course have been in CPU speed and processing, you know, and Ram and costs of all of these things. And storage is significant. You know, how you’ve changed from spinning drives to now solid state drives all of these are huge technological advances, but as it would pertain it to the adult industry where that affects everybody is our, in our ability to delivery to deliver high quality live or prerecorded video at low latencies. So this is accomplished by obviously having the right software stack running, but also having complex global networks and the right kind of servers set up that can cache your content, you know, in different geos, if it’s prerecorded video or if it’s your desire to deliver live streaming video, then you know, you need to really have some also some great hosting and a lot of different places.

2 (12m 4s):
So, you know, the networking since I’ve started changed from servers with a hundred megabit ports to gigabit ports, to 10 gigabit ports, to 25 to 40, and now even a hundred gigabit networking on individual servers.

1 (12m 16s):
Wow.

2 (12m 17s):
And those kinds of changes at the edges of the network too. So

1 (12m 20s):
Well, the cost of, and the cost of hosting has gone so far down.

2 (12m 25s):
It has, it depends on which metric you measure that, you know, it’s still costs for service and support. People cost more now good labor costs more than it’s never cost of before. Right.

1 (12m 36s):
I mean, in terms of when you’re buying data, I’m talking about,

2 (12m 40s):
Oh yeah, no, data’s dead has changed. The data’s changed significantly. Right? So when I started my business in 1999, I think I was paying $300 a megabit, no, by 2002, I was paying 70, you know, today raw average wholesale costs on bulk bandwidth are sub 10 cents per megabit.

1 (13m 3s):
Oh my God,

2 (13m 5s):
Mind you that’s. But that’s not the price that we sell to our customers app to buy lots of networks and you have to blend them together. And then you have to go fast and smart and all those other things. But yeah, all of these advances have essentially made it so that somebody can deploy a site today and have, you know, other, I’ve got a plan at 1599 and 1 99 a month that someone can go launch a tube site using mech money software, one of two Mojo’s VPs or a dedicated server. And it includes at the $200 a month, it includes support backups, the software and a couple of terabytes of storage and like 20 or 30 terabytes of monthly transfer, which is quite a lot.

2 (13m 45s):
And that’s on CDN for global delivery, not just from a server.

1 (13m 48s):
Wow. Crazy. So what forecasts, can you give them about the future of technology affecting the adult industry?

2 (13m 60s):
I think we’re, I think in the next few years, I don’t know. I don’t know what it’s going to be, or who’s going to do it, but I think we’re going to see some type of a paradigm shift in social networking. I’m not exactly sure what’s going to transpire, but I think that while that isn’t technology, like when I say CPU’s is technology, I think that that’s, what’s connecting us all is social networks. And I think we’ve seen a lot of very large social networks have so much control and be on top for a long time. So it only seems logical to me that, you know, perhaps we can expect to see something new come to popularity.

1 (14m 40s):
Oh, sure.

2 (14m 41s):
So, you know, other than that, I don’t think you’re going to really see bandwidth will continue to get a little bit more competitive, but at, but now, like you remember even on a wholesale level, like when I look at some of like, when I look at what my costs are, I’m not looking at large double dip, I’m not looking at double digit decreases and bailiff costs year over year. Now I’m actually looking at like, you know, fractions of pennies. Of course, some of these on some of these metrics

1 (15m 11s):
Get minus

2 (15m 13s):
What, what is what’s super interesting. And we saw it rear its ugly head with COVID is how completely dependent we are on some of these technology supply chains. So I can tell you right now buying and building servers right now is a bitch. And especially using what might be quote unquote latest greatest because all of the supply chains are messed up and actually everything is being priced out. So, you know, when I look at building a server and putting it online today, the relative cost is probably as much as 50% more than it might’ve been a year or two ago.

1 (15m 49s):
That’s crazy.

2 (15m 50s):
So what’s interesting is, is your servers that the servers that you’re buying, they’re not going to get any cheaper. In fact, I would tell you, honestly, they’re getting a little bit more expensive. The great news is, is that things are so fast that obviously the newer technology does more than the older technology does. So we’re sort of to a point where maybe it doesn’t matter as much, you know, people often say, well, for example, Bruce, and we don’t need to get into specifics, but I know I quoted something for you once. You’re like, well, this other web host has this newer server and it’s a little bit cheaper than what most wants to charge, but their question you really need to ask yourself when you’re looking for website and technology is what’s the end result to the customer? How fast is the patron, right? Because at some point with the technology, like, it doesn’t matter.

2 (16m 31s):
Like if you’re not loading your CPU’s up to a hundred percent, it doesn’t matter if one’s a little bit faster than the other. If that’s your demand for the server is, is never going to meet the maximum potential

1 (16m 42s):
Good things to know good things to know what are three habits you’d recommend developing to any business owner.

2 (16m 51s):
Oh gosh, Natalie, thank you for such an amazing question. Three hats, three habits. So I think on this one, I’m going to take, I’m going to take a slightly different approach. So I’m going to, I’m going to reflect on myself. Okay. So, so like what things do I need to focus on? What would be the three things that I could focus on to be a better Brad, as a, as a president for mojo host for my customers and for my employees, I think working hard and showing up and putting the time in

1 (17m 19s):
Sure.

2 (17m 20s):
Number one, you know, so being diligent, I gotta be honest, you know, so 22 years in, I’ve got an option. Like I can, I can make up six o’clock in the morning and go into the office or I can enroll in at lunch, But the best part, but the best Brad, the one that’s best for his business and best for his customers is the one that understands what puts the food on his family’s table. And that’s the brand that sets us alarm somewhere in the middle to wake up at seven, to be in the office at eight 30 or nine and to have a full business day, most days, most weeks, Monday through Friday, you know, I think they, everyone needs to take vacations because that’s healthy. But I think, I think staying,

1 (17m 59s):
And you’re finally doing that by the way. And you, you remember the email that I sent you about that?

2 (18m 6s):
Yeah. So in terms, so in terms of habits, I think staying, I think staying diligent and actually, and actually questioning oneself, like, am I working hard or am I just doing the things that I want to do in passing time? Because I can, I can show up at the office and be there for six, seven or eight hours and not necessarily challenged myself, but I’ll tell you what the, the days that I feel best when I get home after, after work at whatever time that is, are the days when I did stuff that I really didn’t enjoy doing.

1 (18m 35s):
I tried

2 (18m 36s):
To talk to my teenagers about this, like do stuff that you don’t like and do it often, because I think that that builds character and that feels rewards

1 (18m 42s):
Solutely absolutely.

2 (18m 45s):
So that’s one habit. What’s another habit

1 (18m 48s):
Days like that. I days like that. I usually have a scotch at night, by the way. But anyway, go ahead.

2 (18m 53s):
Yeah. For me, for me, something else, I would challenge myself to do better in 2022 is be smart and fail or quit things sooner. Hmm. Have those hard conversations. So when I reflect on my, on my business ownership the last 20 years, and I’m not necessarily the best manager of people, so I’ve tried to set things up now. So I don’t have a lot of direct reports, right. So I’ve got a really wonderful management team and they do a lot of that day to day management and deploying a lot of those hard decisions. But one of the things that I would challenge myself to is, is following my gut. And when I hit, when I instinctively know that there are things I need to action on in my business, hard decisions that I need to make to force me to do it and to not put my head in the sand and delayed the decision.

2 (19m 40s):
Yeah. So, you know, without giving any specific examples, I would generally say like at each moment in time, over the course of my company, when, when an employee wasn’t working out, I usually knew long before then. And for me that often met and from, and for me that often meant try to help them help themselves or try to find a resolution to something that just maybe wasn’t meant to be

1 (20m 4s):
Brad. You’re a nice guy. I could imagine how hard it is for you to fire someone. In fact, I, I know that for a fact. So I remember one instance. So anyway,

2 (20m 13s):
Well, none of that, but besides that

1 (20m 17s):
With, without, without getting to any specific,

2 (20m 21s):
I mean, there, there has been, there’s been many, many over the years, so I don’t just reflect on one. There’s been many, there’s been many of those. In fact, in fact, every single, every single salesperson I’ve ever let go, and there’s been a whole handful of them has been, it has been a very, very difficult choice. And sometimes it’s just, you know, the opportunity isn’t right. For somebody with where they’re at in life in life, or it’s just not the right match. And so it’s often my experience that as much as I might labor over this, like they also knew the whole time. So I’ve been punishing myself. So it’s just easier to just be, be a man about it and kind of have that conversation. The other thing I would say is, I think similar to that would be maybe the third thing is killing new business ideas that don’t get traction.

2 (21m 10s):
They take away from your mental energy to keep you off focus. You’ve got your core business. It’s what you’re best at. You know, some of us business owners ever get one breakout success and I’m a very much a visionary and I have lots of ideas all the time, but there, there are many things over the years that I’ve done and I’ve failed at and I held onto it for too long, for pride or for hope or, you know, something magical that clearly was never going to happen in that instance. And in all those instances, I wish I would have killed them sooner. Yeah.

1 (21m 42s):
So what would you call the pillars of a business, which require the most attention and are usually under appreciated?

2 (21m 51s):
Jeez, what a question. Pillars of business where the most attention, I mean the liveness test for me and my business is understanding my customer experience. And you don’t really know that unless you talk to your customers or you inspect your, your staff and your employees work, or the quality of the service you’re providing to actually have that customer experience. Like, so it’s part, it’s my it’s in my nature to be very empathetic, right. So I’ve always had that sort of as a strong suit for me and being able to evaluate mojo host client experiences. But, but I think it’s, it’s very easy to be a manager or an operator in a business and be too detached from your customer’s experience.

1 (22m 38s):
Absolutely.

2 (22m 39s):
I think it’s, I think it’s also, you know, in a good organization, you’re empowering your people and those people that are working so hard for you. They’re trying to take things away from you because they’re supposed to, that means everything’s going right. Right. Yeah. But really what’s also supposed to happen is as a business owner operator at all of these levels, whether it’s me or it’s, it’s someone that, you know, my vice president or, you know, one of the other VPs or managers, like, you need to get your hands dirty. Like you need to work, you need to engage with the clients. You need to like surf the website. You need to go look at things. You need to go. You know, like I get very, you know, we have like a once a month, all hands on staff meeting, right?

2 (23m 20s):
So there’s 40, almost 40 people on the call every time, you know, everyone, that’s a systems, administrator, everybody, a management billing, and we are largely a technical organization. So a lot of that costs upwards of 40 people, I would say like 35 or technical. Right. And then you’ve got like, you know, me a biller, you know, a VP of finance and you know, Natalie and sales and Jack, but everyone else’s is super, super technical, but yup. It’s important to make sure that when people have problems that you’re dialed into that, like you have to, you have to, you have to know about it.

2 (24m 0s):
Like you have to make sure that like, that news gets passed up to you. Like, I have a lot of friends, tons of friends, like dozens, maybe even hundreds of friends that are, I would say more than hundreds of friends, of course that our customers. And I always say the same things in my phone calls. Like I hear a lot of times I’ll like, everything’s wonderful. Your staff is great. Like the support is really, really good. And I’m so happy about that, but I always make sure in every one of these conversations, when someone’s giving us a compliment, I remind them. And I say, you know, when you eventually have that day, when something isn’t going the way that you think or thought it should, or you don’t know if that’s how that’s supposed to go, I want you to call me or message me Personally to tell me yes, because it’s hard because a lot of times what happens is people don’t want to bother you.

2 (24m 43s):
Like everyone, that seems just like you, that I’m too busy that I can’t hear it, or don’t want to hear it or that

1 (24m 49s):
I never assume you’re too busy,

2 (24m 52s):
But a lot of people do or, or, you know, there’s a mutual respect in your friends and they feel like they’re afraid to bother you. And they don’t want it to be a nag. Cause they generally like things. But I always try to encourage people the other way. Like that’s how we make, that’s how we stay really, really good at our business. Cause it’s only when people raise a red flag and say like, Hey, was this really supposed to happen that way? Or you know, let’s talk about this. Like that’s, how

1 (25m 15s):
Can you improve? How can you improve otherwise? Right.

2 (25m 19s):
Sure. Of course. And we have a very complex deliverable. So we need that feedback. Like, and sometimes you need a common sense approach to going and reviewing someone, someone could have a support ticket with a hundred threaded responses in it. And it might have one, two or five system administrators that have been in there. And sometimes what needs to happen is either me or my vice president or the VP of support and operations. Like someone needs to go and look at this whole thread and read it, like they’re the customer So that we can judge ourselves and say like, okay, like where did we go wrong in this? Or what could we have done better? Or why wasn’t this escalated? Like, like there was a problem.

2 (25m 60s):
Something got pushed back. And then, you know, like I want to know when someone’s having a bad experience because I also want to be the guy that reaches out and says, Hey, I’m really sorry. We made a mistake. We’ve looked at this. We understand how we did it. And we’re going to do better next time. And I’m going to go put a credit on your account.

1 (26m 18s):
That’s why, that’s why you guys have the reputation. You have Brian, you know, The company is you, you are the company. I mean that’s, and I know you take that. I know you take that serious.

2 (26m 32s):
I’m hoping to build, I think it’s, I take it seriously, but we, to be honest, like the, really the core value is that like that, that whole that’s good mojo slogan that we’ve got. I think, I think we’ve really built an hired and fired a team that, that webs by that my, my goal is to make it so that while I’m synonymous with the brand and maybe I don’t always want to be, or maybe I would like it to be bigger than that. So

1 (26m 58s):
Of course, but still, but still people know you care and that’s, that’s the important thing. Okay. I got a question for you. Does profit always equal success?

2 (27m 11s):
No.

1 (27m 12s):
Y

2 (27m 13s):
Sometimes you make money and you don’t feel good about it.

1 (27m 16s):
Hmm.

2 (27m 17s):
About how you earned it. And I wouldn’t say that that’s the case. I wouldn’t necessarily say that that’s the case, the motor hosts, but like in reflecting, right? Like I’m, it depends. The question is what, what does success mean to you? Right. Like that’s really the question. The question is, is

1 (27m 33s):
Yeah. What does, what does success mean to you? Let’s go there.

2 (27m 36s):
Well, to me it means a lot of different things. I mean, and at the root of it, I want to feel proud of what I do as much as I can. And you know, I’m still an employer and you know, a lot of the jobs that, that my employees do, just like some of the things that even that I do on a regular basis, some of them are pretty mundane and repetitive. It’s not always the most exciting thing, but for me, for me, success, like even if my personal income hasn’t grown in the last couple of years, I guess I’m not measuring it on pure profit. Right. Cause if it was on profit, right then I will be measuring what’s Brad’s bottom line. What did he take home? 2021, 2020, 2019. And I’m going to tell you, Bruce, I haven’t, while I’ve grown my business, each one of those years by double digits, I haven’t actually made more money.

1 (28m 21s):
Oh, you’re putting it back. You’re putting it

2 (28m 23s):
Back and putting, I’ve been putting it back in, but, but how, how do I feel like I’m still successful? So I gave, I judged that for myself and for Moja hosts first are my customers happy? So I believe the answer to that is yes. Yep. Second are my employees happy? And am I taking the best care of them? And you know, you have to make a lot of choices as an employer about how you take care of your employees. Like emoji hosts. We’ve more, we’ve more or less gotten to a place right now where there’s a limited paid time off, You know? And no, it’s not documented exactly like that in the handbook, but I make these exceptions all the time. And I always have, you know, especially with COVID and everything else and Burbank and people getting sick and ill.

2 (29m 8s):
Like I went and especially at the start of the pandemic, you know, I raised, there’s just been a lot of exceptions for employment that we’ve made. And, but it’s important to me because you know what I, I guess like secretly somewhere inside, like, you know, I want to be the guy that makes them that makes the most money and crazy successful, personal fortune. Like that would be awesome. And I, I truly believe with more hard work and what I’m doing, getting smarter and better at it, then someday I’ll see fruition of that. But what makes me feel good is that I take great care of my employees as good as I can for them. And that for them and their families, whether it’s they need a loan for something, whether it’s, they need more paid time off than they’re supposed to have based on their tenure at the company, whether it’s the decisions I make from linear to the next, on which blue cross blue shield plan we’re buying for everybody.

2 (29m 59s):
Like we have, I think probably I’m not going to say probably I would say almost certainly, probably, and probably most certainly in the adult industry, but probably by comparison to any other enterprise organization. Like I have the richest healthcare benefit that’s out there. So it is the most expensive blue cross plan. And that has the lowest deductible and it has full vision and full dental. And I don’t just buy that fully for my employee. I buy that for any spouses and dependents for their spouse and all of their dependents and they contribute nothing towards the premium. So that means for me, when I hire somebody that’s married and has a family of four that that’s 20 to $25,000 a year that we’re paying for that.

2 (30m 39s):
But you know what I, why I do that because the same fucking thing I want for my family, because no matter where they are, whether they’re making 60,000 a year for me, or a hundred thousand or $150,000, I want to make sure that when it comes to their health and their care and the care of everyone, that’s important to them and their nuclear family, that they can have access to whatever they need. And obviously healthcare is very complicated in the United States. And if you look at the statistics, you would see that most banks, most bankruptcies are actually healthcare related. And so

1 (31m 13s):
I was telling you, I was telling you before our interview about that Andrew Yang book that I’m reading and it was, it was citing that statistic though, what I read just last night.

2 (31m 23s):
Yeah. I mean, very, very sad. So, you know, how do I define success? I look for, I look to see, am I having personal growth, my challenged by the work that I’m doing for my employees? You know, it didn’t use to be the case. I couldn’t have given you an honest answer eight years ago, Bruce, if you said like, is there opportunity for advancement at mojo host? And we were talking about a system administrator level employee, I probably would have said yes, but I don’t know if it would have been true. Maybe even back then I would have thought it was true, but it has become true because we finally brought that to fruition with, with James that manages my business, my vice president. So now we have all kinds of opportunity for, for, for employees to advance, not just with their pay, but in their job and their skills and the responsibilities.

2 (32m 10s):
You know, the last few years we’ve been secretly building new products and new technologies and we have all kinds of stuff that’s already happened and going to be happening in the near future. You know, so there’s a whole dev ops team. Now there’s a whole management tier of systems administrator to manage the different shifts for systems administration, right. And those, and those, all of those, all of these employees were promoted from those initially grinding jobs of, you know, systems administration, even in the systems administration, like the support ticket we’ve, we’ve taken the whole, what is support at mojo host and divided that out? You know, we have a network operations team now we’ve got, we have a team now that actually all they do is manage the monitoring and a words for all of your servers and services.

2 (32m 53s):
Wow. And we’ve got, you know, the team for provisioning and then we have, you know, the general support queue and then we have an escalations thing. So

1 (33m 1s):
Come a long way, man, definitely come a long way. You know, what’s interesting. You were talking about, you know, the paid leave. I’ll tell you the opposite of that. A guy that I know was working at a hotel part of a hotel chain and the worst possible thing you could imagine happened, his girlfriend diet in bed, sleeping next to him. Do you know what the hotel said? You don’t get any time off work. So That’s what you’re competing with. I mean, that’s an extreme example, but that’s what you’re competing with is companies that just don’t give a damn about their employees.

2 (33m 42s):
Sure. And I think one of the inherent challenges to scaling any type of company is how do you actually manage to happiness and manage to unusual situations as an organization gets harder? So I expect that that will continue to be a challenge, right? So my challenge with 40 employees is very different than some of my friends companies that have two or 300 employees and very different from companies that have 1,005 thousand or a hundred thousand employees. But, you know, if given the chance and the opportunity, I would love to be the CEO someday of that company that has 10 or 20,000 employees and say, you know what, we’re fucking awesome at that too.

1 (34m 23s):
Yeah. Yeah. You try to do that without losing control. That’s the only problem.

2 (34m 30s):
Well, the only way to move forward is to give up control. But I think, you know, as I said earlier, you really have to inspect what you expect out of all tiers of your business, including all the way down to the customer or even the customer’s customer experience. One of the things that people would never ever guess we’ve put our, our physical network, like how we connect to the internet through so many different phone companies. We’ve put this together in such an awesome way. And we don’t talk a lot about that because most of the time when we’re talking about posting, you know, people don’t really want to get to get into the weeds of how it is. We build things the way that we do. But the truth of it is I have a network operations team that’s so fucking good at what they do.

2 (35m 13s):
And we deploy such good technology and make such good choices about where we buy from and how we blend bandwidth. That I can have one of my $250 a month elevated acts, complete managed, hosting, special clients that, you know, basically your typical pay site, entry-level pay site owner that has a server for Moja host and elevated Xs or CMS. I can have one of those guys have a member that has a problem with a video buffering, and we can escalate that all the way to my network support team to troubleshoot that guy’s home router and we’ve done. And we have, yeah, it isn’t the same, but the only reason we can, we can do that is because we made all the right choices that all the higher layers of the network and deployed all the right technologies and investments.

2 (36m 2s):
What most people don’t know is most hosts deploy what’s effectively called least cost routing solutions. So we have extra, we have some extra special technology in play that most hosts do not deploy because it comes at quite a premium, but it actually is inspecting all of the traffic that enters and exits our network. And then, and then searches the whole internet to look for ways to reduce latency. Like if I can reduce latency by more than five milliseconds to any destination in the world, my network will do that.

1 (36m 35s):
That’s all.

2 (36m 36s):
So we grabbed this regardless of cost. We’ll even take traffic off of free network hearing to do it.

1 (36m 41s):
So what do you want to accomplish in the balance of this year? 2022?

2 (36m 47s):
The balance of this year, 2021, or what’s my new year’s resolution for next year.

1 (36m 52s):
Oh, see it. You just, you just blew it, man. Cause we’re doing this in December and it’s going to run in January. That’s okay. Everyone blow, everyone blows it at some. Everyone blows it at some point, so, okay.

2 (37m 4s):
I’ll give you both answers.

1 (37m 7s):
No. Just tell, just tell me what you want to accomplish. Business-wise in 2022,

2 (37m 13s):
I want to increase profits, Bruce.

1 (37m 15s):
Good.

2 (37m 16s):
I have a data center that I’ve invested so many, many millions of dollars to build. I have 900 unsold servers waiting there for me to sell. Wow, I’ve got 20, 30 petabytes of storage sitting there on pallets, waiting to be wrapped. I’ve got all this stuff that I either already own, or I’m already making payments on. And magically mysteriously wonderfully Moja host has grown enough where I’m not running in the ride. We’re still doing all right. I’ve just, instead of, instead of paying myself more, the last couple of years, we’ve invested in all of these different things. So I’m really looking forward to 2022, sort of bringing the cattle home and, and seeing through what my vision of all of this has been and, and selling new service inside of our new data center.

2 (38m 8s):
And so

1 (38m 12s):
Really

2 (38m 12s):
Been a boon.

1 (38m 15s):
No, but he will be glad you,

2 (38m 17s):
We talked about all this. Well, we, you know, we talked earlier in the interview though, about what are some of the mistakes that business owners make or what advice would you give? You know, so I’ve been, I’ve been trying to run this very delicate balance of making sure that I’m not over-investing or overleveraging that we can actually afford. Like all of these are calculate our calculated risks based on return, but the great news, but the great news is my whole team is very focused and we’re really ready for the new year with all of these new products and services. And so, you know, I’m hopeful that it’s the case that next year we can, we can focus on selling into all of these great new assets that we have.

2 (39m 1s):
And if we do that, the way that I expect that we can, that should hopefully show some, some good profit from that.

1 (39m 9s):
I hope so for your sake. Well, Brad, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll chant who will have a chance to do this again really soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable. For one, you decide to sell it later, keep your website design up to date, do a redesign from time to time, people will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success.

1 (39m 50s):
If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’re going to end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well on the others? Don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes.

1 (40m 31s):
People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet the competitors clearly doing everything better, emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all of your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’re going to lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for. If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all of your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Dominic Ford of just for fans.

1 (41m 21s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Brad Mitchell of Mojohost. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Brad Mitchell of Mojohost.

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1 (1m 39s):
This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages. Google has placed the websites in good search positions. There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic because the owner would like a fast sale, he’s instructed us to slash the price from the previous $595,000 to only $165,000.

1 (2m 30s):
Now time for this week’s interview my guest today and adult site broker talk, once again is Brad Mitchell. Brad, thanks for being back with us today on adult site broker talk.

2 (2m 40s):
Hi Bruce. It’s my pleasure. Happy to be back. Thank you for having me

1 (2m 43s):
Glad to have you. Now, if you’re in our industry, you no doubt know about Brad and mojo host. Mojo host is a leading company in hosting adult website. Brad is certainly an icon in the adult internet industry. You’ll see Brad at virtually every single adult event. Now mojo host prides themselves on great customer service and technical support. They’re based in Detroit, Michigan, and have data centers in Miami and Amsterdam. They take pride in 99.9, nine, nine a lot, a few more nines, I think, percent uptime and put in the work to make it possible. Mojo host is a self-funded company that’s been profitable for more than 15 years.

1 (3m 25s):
Did I miss anything there? Brad has anything updated since we last talked?

2 (3m 30s):
Yes, Bruce. This is our 22nd year in business and we have a new data center that we’ve built in Detroit, Michigan. So those are, are those. Those would be the updates to that. So,

1 (3m 41s):
Okay. Well how are things going at the new, not the new data center?

2 (3m 45s):
Things are good. It’s been really quite the endeavor. So two years ago, I started on the concept and design and started constructing our own wholly owned data center. And we’re, we’re seeing that come to fruition now, as we, as we end in 2021 and enter into 2022, so I’m super excited. It’s been quite honestly, it’s the largest investment of my life. We’ve built a gorgeous data center. That’s many, many, many times redundant on all different systems of power and air conditioning and all different types of networking. I’m excited for that. And we’ve got big things in store.

1 (4m 26s):
You gotta be pretty proud of where you’ve come when you, when you walk in the doors of that new place.

2 (4m 33s):
I am actually. And, you know, I I’d say I, I pinched myself each time I walk in the office, you know, it’s, there’s a lot of data centers out there and we’ve been fortunate that I’ve chosen good data centers for mojo host all the years that we’ve been in business. It really helps us to provide the best level of care and service to our clients. But in having the ability, the opportunity to design our own data center, I then got to make all of those specific choices with my team and all of the experts and consultants that I could hire about how we would build and deploy our own space to serve our needs. And so, you know, I’m very proud of that. And then, you know, as part of that, it’s not just a, it’s more than a multi-million dollar investment.

2 (5m 17s):
I think, you know, at the end of it, you know, for what I would say is a very modestly sized data center at a megawatt and a half, the total construction, it’s about $6 million to, and as a part of that, I’ve really taken very special care. And I’m not just all of the most important things, which are keeping everything fast and online and, and super redundant for all of the different critical systems that you would expect in a data center, but also in the design elements that I think brings some extra special character to the mojo host facility that, that you won’t see anywhere else. And so, you know, maybe, maybe some of that’s not so important, but, you know, I had this moment when I was doing the design where I really decided that I wanted to go, you know, a couple of extra steps, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars more to have glass walls that look into all of the data centers to have, you know, locking rolling steel doors that roll down down behind all of them, for security to have, you know, mosaics on the wall and, you know, the very interesting epoxy floors.

2 (6m 25s):
And, you know, we have even a wall at the data center inside of our office space. That’s adjacent to it, which is made from recycled motherboards, from servers that we decommissioned in Miami, which is pretty cool because, you know, they’ve still got all of the Intel CPU’s and the copper heat syncs on there, but we’re very, we’re very proud of the deployment. And I, I think that our customers would be proud to be our customer being hosted in the site.

1 (6m 50s):
You’ve got to maybe a host an event in Detroit one of these days, so people can take a tour.

2 (6m 58s):
Yeah. We’re certainly looking forward to that. I think, I think we’ll be cutting our teeth and ready to be show ready, so to speak by the end of first quarter. So cool. I look, I very, I very much look forward to doing a lot of video, have, you know, having people out to the site, but also doing some really comprehensive videos and explaining the technology and the infrastructure we’ve gone above and beyond to make it extremely green and extraordinarily redundant, you know, in every different respect. So I’m, I’m excited to finally be able to see myself and to show others what what’s been my passion for the last two years.

1 (7m 37s):
Yeah. I, I, this would be a worth a trip from Thailand to go check it out, man. I may just have to do that. So what are some things that you’ve obviously, you know, I mean, from where you started, you know, one man operation to, to where you’ve come, you’ve obviously been very successful. What are some things that companies with longevity focus on to stay on top and the adult industry?

2 (8m 6s):
So I think the answer to this question might be, would be of course, different with each owner that you may interview. But for me, I think probably my top three answers to that question. The first one would be my main focus is always to make sure that we have an excellent product. So a lot of people, a lot, especially a lot of business owners are dreamers, right? So as a business owner, you’ve got the choose your own adventure every day that you go into the office and each year that you’re running your business. But I think being mindful of what’s your core deliverable, what’s your core product and making sure that your product is good for the customer always is, is of paramount importance.

2 (8m 49s):
Because at the end of, at the end of the day, I guess I would say in the 22 years that I’ve been in the industry where I’ve seen a lot of company owners fail has been when they’ve taken their eyes off of the price, that one core thing, which they were so good at, whether it was from luck or timing or skill or prowess To go and do other ventures, it’s easy to lose oneself. You know, another thing that I think is very important is integrity.

1 (9m 22s):
Absolutely.

2 (9m 23s):
So I think I’ve integrity. And I think, you know, I don’t know if I want to say it’s a couple of different things, but integrity and humility. You know, I, I think a lot of, a lot of us when we started our business, everyone starts from zero. Everyone starts with some humble roots of, they’ve got an idea. And most of us, if not all of us start with, you know, we have no money and no backing and we’ve just got time and sweat and equity in our business to go and to build a brand. And I think sometimes people over many diff over a longer span of years can kind of lose themselves in terms of how they relate to other people.

2 (10m 4s):
So I think it’s very important to maintain a sense of humility, to always be a good listener to everyone that’s around you.

1 (10m 12s):
I’m sorry. What did you say? That was a joke.

2 (10m 17s):
I think, I think being a good listener, I think having good integrity, being honest, you know, I, I, Bruce, you’ve talked to thousands of people just like I have over the years. And I’m proud to say that I think you would be hard pressed to find somebody that says that I’ve wronged them in any business fashion. I personal past,

1 (10m 34s):
I haven’t, I can’t find anybody that doesn’t like you, so that’s a good, that’s a good thing.

2 (10m 42s):
There must be, there must be a couple out there, but you know, at the end of the day, I think, I think to be in business for the long-term, you have to do all of those things. And then you also have to be mindful of the future and you have to be smart with your money and you need to be strategic about how you invest or reinvest into your business, because the truth of it is no business that has any longevity has, has accomplished this without continue continual reinvention and reinvestment. I think, you know, on every three to five-year cycle, there there’s a turn, you know, turn and in the market or in business. And it’s important that you’re mindful and looking ahead and making plans and investments, so that you’re ready for the next thing, because it’s usually the case that if you’re not growing, you’re dying.

2 (11m 28s):
Right. So, so keeping all of these things in mind, I think is how an action is how somebody would, could experience longevity.

1 (11m 41s):
So what industry sectors have the most potential right now and why?

2 (11m 46s):
Great question. So I’m still a dreamer and I love seeing and hearing new ideas from, from people that have experienced and have no experience. And sometimes they’re, they’re equally interesting on both sides because when you open yourself up and you’re, you have conversations with people that, that haven’t even done business in our business yet, and they have some ideas it’s really great because you get sort of an unfiltered opinion. And so I think it’s always great to see because I don’t necessarily know who’s got the next great idea. I don’t think any of us do know necessarily, you know, you don’t kind of know until you’ve seen it, sometimes it’s already happened and you’re like, damn, that was really good.

2 (12m 34s):
That was, that was great timing. That was a great idea. And

1 (12m 37s):
Can we thought of like only fans or something like that? Right.

2 (12m 40s):
I mean, and I think, you know, a lot of us have had great ideas and maybe we didn’t bring them to market and we kick ourselves. But so I think, you know, most potential, I think certainly the new ideas, maybe the ones we don’t know about yet. So I think it’s always good to be paying attention to trends and watching how people are interacting, how people are buying and consuming entertainment, because at the end of the day, that’s what, that’s what, that’s what this is. This is adult entertainment and it’s connection, you know? So, but in terms of what is the most potential right now, I think none of us could have an argument against clip sites and live cams. You know, th the platforms that have been developed and launched, which allow performers of any maturity, you know, an experience to sort of self publish, you know, and collect like these platforms, they allow people to publish their content and, you know, collect revenue.

2 (13m 37s):
And I think that those, those are currently the most relevant, obviously that the history of the past of adult entertainment has been a lot of subscription-based services. And I think what’s different now with how people are consuming content is it’s much more dynamic. I think there’s certainly an still an incredible future and subscription-based services, you know, and those who, even for those independent and platform-based performers who are producing content and have subscribers to their channels, you know, they very quickly learned that you have to be interesting and you have to always be, you have to actually work really hard, you know, to produce interesting content to mean to get subscribers.

2 (14m 21s):
And then to be interesting enough to continue to experience growth. I think also it’s certainly the case that live cam services are extraordinarily compelling and both on both sides of the house, both on the Quip site side and on the live cam site side, you’ve got a lot of mature businesses that are doing a lot of volumes of dollars. As we, as we now know, it’s billions of dollars, you know, both sides, cams, and clips. And I think we see platforms innovating that are also finding a way to mesh the two cams and clips. You know, like I know that this is certainly the case, you know, with only fans with many bids with, I want clips with clips for sale, you know, these are all awesome platforms.

2 (15m 12s):
And with, as with anything else, I think that that means that there’s opportunity for, for growth, right? So the question is if someone was going to come to market and bring a new product and they wanted to do what say live Jasmine is doing, or what only fans is doing, they have to have an angle, or they have to have something new that they bring to the table. They have to have something better than just offering a larger share of the revenue to their performer, because at the end of the day, it’s the consumers that are making that choice voting with their dollars.

1 (15m 45s):
Yep.

2 (15m 46s):
So it’s, they really, they’re going to have to be able to make everybody happy and to leverage technology and do so in a, in a smart and wise way. And so I think that there’s, you know, it’s, it’s a big internet and I’m, I’m constantly amazed even with, you know, the stable of clients that we’ve got. And right now, mojo hosts serves, I think around 1400 different companies wow. In the space. And it’s a lot. So we’re serving, you know, the whole, the whole gamut of everyone’s different ideas, whether it’s, you know, everything from review sites, to advertising networks, to campsites, to quit platforms, to traditional pay site programs, we host all of that. And to be honest, I see, I see customers and all different parts of this succeeding.

2 (16m 33s):
So, you know, work hard, have a good idea, and that doesn’t guarantee success. But I think the, you know, I think we’re continuing to see growth in this and this explosion of platforms that allow creators to be innovative and, and to self publish.

1 (16m 51s):
So I

2 (16m 51s):
Think, I think we’re going to continue to see more of that,

1 (16m 54s):
You know, and in the process and you alluded to this, you’re going to see a lot of people pop up and doing, as they like to say here in Thailand, the same, same. I love that saying, oh, it’s so hot. So what is this, what does this mean? What does this product do? Same, same. And you saw that a lot with pay sites. And a lot of them have failed because they didn’t try to innovate. They didn’t try to do anything different and it’s really no different than any mainstream business. Right?

2 (17m 28s):
Sure. I mean, sometimes same, same can be good business. I mean, as a hosting company, I look at Amazon’s AWS and I think, heck if I could be same, same, well, you know, and get some fraction of 1% of those tens of billions of dollars in cloud sales. Yeah. That would be a pretty great business, right? Yes,

1 (17m 47s):
Yes. Yeah. But yeah, I see a lot of people, they want to start a clip site. They want to start a fan site. They want to start a campsite. I see this through my general consulting company. And the question I always ask them is how are you going to be different? What are you going to do? That’s going to get a customer away from Ana and also a, a performer away from only fans away from live Jasmine and a good deal of the time. They don’t have an answer.

2 (18m 22s):
Sure.

1 (18m 23s):
So that’s a problem. That’s a problem.

2 (18m 26s):
Yeah. That’s always, that’s always going to be a, be a fundamental challenge. I mean, one of the things, when I, when I get to have conversations with new business owners and they’re looking for some guidance and, you know, a lot of times you’re trying to pre-qualify somebody or challenge them to ask them, what are they going to do? And I guess a lot of times when I find myself in conversations, they’re telling me what they’re going to do. And I’m just trying to add a little bit of guidance. You know, one of the things I think that helps business owners to be more successful is to truly believe in their product and be passionate about what they’re doing.

1 (18m 58s):
So,

2 (18m 58s):
You know, I think the best example of that is I want clips. So, you know, that’s an excellent platform. And one of the things that they’ve focused focused on is, you know, a lot of different fetishes and catering to a lot of, you know, BDSM and other types of content in that market. And I think Kevin, you know, I think if the owners and the operators of a site have an eye or have an interest, or really understand something better rather than trying to be a generalist or just launching a platform and not having something that they feel like they can do better. You know, I think if you’re able to, with any fetish interests or, or segment of our industry, I think if, I think when you’re able to bring people together with a sense of community and drive based on that, and just be the even, you know, if you can just be the best at doing even one of these markets and not, not try to do everything for everybody, if you can just be very, very good at one thing that I think that that can be a knockout success.

1 (20m 7s):
Absolutely. So what are some common mistakes that newcomers often make that may harm their new business?

2 (20m 16s):
Well, it’s never easy starting a new business.

1 (20m 19s):
No,

2 (20m 19s):
You’ve got everything against you and nothing but an uphill battle. Right? So when people are starting a new business online, they have, they have no traffic, they have no software, they have no content. They have no merchant processing. They’ve really got nothing, but they have an idea, right? So, you know, common mistakes, I think sort of a broad question, but I think there’s, there’s lots of potential pitfalls. I think sometimes seeking guidance from people who aren’t qualified to advise them that can be a common mistake, right? So like anybody that’s seeking to start a new business and they’re getting counsel from somebody, they should absolutely ask the right questions and ask around to try to vet them and try to understand what is their history of experience that they can be giving me advice.

3 (21m 3s):
Absolutely.

2 (21m 5s):
I think that people that start a business need to have a clear vision for what they are willing to invest and or lose and be very committed to that and not necessarily to losing money, but, but to understanding that it’s not field of dreams, like even if you’re able to design and create a product, that doesn’t mean that once it is online and I can go surf your website and buy something that you’re going to be instantly successful. I think a lot of people run out of steam before they’ve even hit stride or even figured out how to market.

1 (21m 41s):
I don’t. I know, I hear, I hear some people I hear from people that say, I’ve got this totally developed website and it’s great, and I want to sell it. And it hasn’t even either hasn’t launched or it launched a month ago because they’re already tired of it.

2 (21m 60s):
I mean, my comment on that would be sent, send me people that have failed because of someone’s someone’s, if someone’s got a truly unique code base where they, that they own it and they’ve done the development and the product works and it’s actually programmed right. Then maybe there’s some residual value in that. But certainly, certainly, certainly custom programming is hard. It’s a very hard, I it’s almost like the, the rabbit hole in Alice, in Wonderland because you really have to be working. You have to know what you want. You have to have a good business strategy. I think a good business strategy brings you online in stages. And the first of those is maybe like, you know, a minimum viable product, But you’ve got to be able to get to the finish line, like

1 (22m 47s):
Yes.

2 (22m 48s):
And you have to, you have to be working with trusted programmers and you have to get your deliverables. I’ve talked to so many people, so many business owners over the years who have spent tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in programming and never ended up with finished code. One of the things I would always recommend to people is that you separate your hosting from your programming resources. So of course your programmers and your custom developers are going to have opinions about where you host. But I would tell you that it’s in the best interests of your new business to have multiple people working for you, each of them with their own fiduciary responsibility. So for example, if someone like, if someone was to come to me and say, Hey, Brad, I’ve got this idea.

2 (23m 29s):
And I know that this idea is complicated and it might take one or more programmers. I might recommend say, Kwan tox, for example, who has lots of resources and available programmers. And I know that VUCA and his company, they work hard and they get jobs done. And I’ve got lots of mojo hosts customers who are happy using them who have built whole platforms. Right?

1 (23m 49s):
Yeah. They’ve done a lot of work for me too. And oh, I believe in them, you know, a thousand percent

2 (23m 56s):
Sure. But it’s important that I’ve also seen other situations where somebody is using an individual program. That’s not part of a larger organization, or maybe it doesn’t have a reputation at all because maybe they’ve never even developed, but they’re essentially working for this client and that is their job and their sole income. And when things go south, if a programmer and a business owner don’t see eye to eye, sometimes it’s the case that the business is held hostage for the code. You don’t even have the code. They don’t even have the code that they want yet. So who can help you in that situation? Well, if you were at the right kind of a web host that can lock it down and you have the right types of design and implementation, then those are the kinds of situations that, you know, hosts can help guide you into an, a hole in a host and understands how to actually manage someone’s platform.

2 (24m 49s):
Like what it’s gonna look like in a real world environment can take a look at how queries are written and how things are structured and how pages are loading and tell you whether or not your programmers and their markup, whether it’s done right, or it’s done wrong, or it’s efficient, or it’s inefficient, they can give you this kind of feedback. And if the host is good at what they’re doing, you’re not even having to pay for it. Maybe you’ve got a 50 or a hundred dollars VPs with them, or maybe you’re spending a few hundred dollars a month on a dev server. You know, I mean, you’ve got support and backups and things like that, but this is, this is where someone that starts a business, they can leverage that expertise and they can do it at no cost. So yeah, I think not having, not having multiple people, giving you feedback on your new business idea, I think that can definitely be a pitfall.

2 (25m 36s):
And at the end of the day after you’ve got a product designed, you need to be able to traffic it. And your first traffic bias, not your biggest traffic by your first traffic bias, making sure that shit works. And then, and then you’re working to see if you can convert. And then after that, you’re working to see if you can retain. And then after that, then you really need to start spending money to start advertising. So

1 (26m 1s):
Yeah, I see so many people, they just throw a bunch of money at traffic and they go, oh, buying traffic doesn’t work, no buying traffic works, but you need to test, test, test, test. Oh. And by the way, what you mentioned about programmers, I mean, we’ve all, we’ve all had that problem. I I’ve had that problem, my first program, or ran away with my money. And I had another bad experience with a guy and went to Kwon talks and I never had a problem again. So in fact, I had problems with every program or I ever had until I went to Kwan talks. So going to a big company that has lots of resources and you know, your guy’s not going to go away at so important.

1 (26m 44s):
I, I respect individual programmers and all, but I know it’s risky. It’s risky, man. It’s just,

2 (26m 54s):
There’s a lot of wonderful ones out there. I think, I think if someone starting a new business and they’re going to go down that path, I think that they need a consort. I think that they need a few different people that they’re talking to. So that, that way they can develop a strategy.

1 (27m 7s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. So what would you recommend to someone looking to launch an adult industry project?

2 (27m 16s):
Well, before COVID, I would have one of the recommendations. So I’ve, I’ve had this question put to me before. I remember talking to somebody a few years ago and you know, he was just ready to spend a bunch of money. And I said, you know what? You really need to take the time out from the other business that you own and you need to come and attend one of the industry conferences you need to go and you need to be a student. And if you want to shadow me just to meet a lot of people, you know, and, and learn some stuff, but you need to go there and you need to be a student. Yes. Because you don’t know what you don’t know. And I think that you need a broader understanding of what’s going on for the whole ecosystem of how all of these things work together. Everything from the billing companies, the cam companies, the traffic companies, you know, the technology side of things to form some opinions, but really just to understand how, how the world turns that, and you know, it used to be, you know, I think that podcasts, like what you have, I think information that’s online.

2 (28m 14s):
I tell everybody to go join experts.net. So, you know, there’s a community online and you can, you can meet people and read threads and you can ignore what you don’t want to read. And, you know, the same is certainly the case also with GF, why, while there is other stuff in there, there is also tidbits of business information. And you know, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of stuff out there, but basically I think when someone’s starting a new business, like they need to really commit to it and they, they should be a student. They need to slow their roll. They don’t know everything. You know, your idea probably isn’t so great that it’s going to succeed. No matter how you deploy this idea, you know, you really should take the time to, you know, be before you start spending money because once you spend it, it’s gone.

2 (28m 59s):
Yep. So

1 (29m 1s):
I say, go to, well, I would say go to a number of shows before you put in that kind of investment.

2 (29m 7s):
Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps, I mean, the other, the other thing I’m always recommending also is just a gut check on, are you really willing to put the time and effort in

1 (29m 17s):
Yeah.

2 (29m 18s):
Are you really, are you really willing to work? Because I also see not, I see other people with ideas that, you know, they have a large pocket book. They have the money to go fund development and other stuff, but it’s very hard to start a new bit. Like if you listen, if you’ve got, if you’ve got six or seven digits to go start a new business, and that’s enough to payroll, a couple of people to actually run and operate this business, then good for you. But most of those businesses, aren’t going to succeed. Most of those new startups aren’t going to succeed. If they blow their watch too soon, they don’t deploy it successfully. Or if the actual owner isn’t really passionate about the business, because it’s very hard to hire pat, it’s very hard to hire passion, right?

2 (30m 5s):
So you can get, you can hire great employees that work hard, but it’s hard to hire, like, you know, someone that can be a visionary and an integrator, someone that can have the vision and actually do the work and be the task master. And every business needs both.

1 (30m 19s):
You’re the best evangelist for your brand. Nobody else can, nobody else can equal that. That’s my feeling.

2 (30m 28s):
Usually that’s the case.

1 (30m 31s):
That’s my feeling you actually have been been. I won’t say fortunate because you’ve been smart enough to bring in someone like Natalie who is just, you know, so passionate about your brand. I won’t, I won’t compare her passion to yours. Cause I don’t think anybody’s passion can equal yours for Mojo’s, but man, she’s, she’s getting pretty close.

2 (30m 55s):
Yeah. We’re both, we’re both very, we’re both unique and I’m very, very fortunate to have her and I’m always, I’m always looking to see, you know, she, she’s very rare, so I’m very lucky to have her on the team and we’ve been very successful together and both Natalie and I are always looking for talent out there to join our team.

1 (31m 13s):
Well, she’s, she’s, I think she’s the best hire you’ve you’ve ever made. And that I know of, I just, you know, I, I can’t, I can’t get over it.

2 (31m 26s):
I, I’m very proud of what she’s accomplished. And, and I’m also very proud of that. I think that, you know, we’ve been together several years now and I think she’s really happy with her job still. So, you know, that’s awesome.

1 (31m 39s):
Well, Brad being happy with the job, I think always has a lot to do with the guy on top and how you’re treated. And I know how you treat your employees, how well you treat your employees and how you treat your friends. And that’s how you treat your employees, how you treat your friends and it’s, it’s awesome. And that it has everything to say about it. Really.

2 (32m 4s):
Thank you.

1 (32m 5s):
Oh, you’re welcome. I mean, I mean, you, you don’t have to do things like rent a bus from, from Berlin to Prague, take everybody to lunch, you know, and, and do things like that.

2 (32m 17s):
So here’s what I

1 (32m 18s):
Remember. You know what I remember the best, by the way, you know what I remember the best and I tell people this story all the time about you remember the, remember the, the, why not show in San Francisco?

2 (32m 30s):
I do.

1 (32m 31s):
And I remember a bunch of us were downstairs and there was a gap in the show and we’re all kind of standing around networking, of course. And you went to the bar and said open the bar it’s on me. And I was just like, wow, I didn’t know you that well then. And I was just like, wow. I mean, that’s, That’s cool. Okay.

2 (32m 56s):
Well, cool. It’s interesting. Right? Because I wasn’t a very cool kid or a very cool young adult. I don’t know if I ever, if I ever found, if I ever found cool in my life, it was in my experience working with all of you, people in this industry and just doing things the hard way when I started off. And then I went to my first conference back in 2000, I was nobody from nowhere and living on credit cards as a very young 20 something year old, trying to figure out his first business and adult. And back then, there were a lot of still very cool people who made a lot of money very fast. And my humble roots just involve.

2 (33m 37s):
I mean, I don’t want to say bribing people, but hospitable, like, you know, providing a little bit of hospitality and that type of situation, but, but not just paying for the bar. So the success like you gave the example of the bus. So what I would, what I would tell you the difference between, or the similarity between that, that experience on the bus and that same experience at why not was, I don’t have a full memory of either one of those days. Like completely, my brain just doesn’t work that way, but I’m very, I’m very consistent. It’s not just that I paid a bill for something to happen. It’s that I was there doing hand-to-hand combat and making sure that everybody was taken care of and that all of their needs were met.

2 (34m 18s):
And I was probably introducing people to opportunities.

1 (34m 21s):
You even waited for Dan Leal who was oversleeping. I’ll never, I’ll never get on. He’ll never, he’ll never hear the end of that one who overslept by like an hour. And we’re like waiting on the bus and bruises and back bitching. It’s like, goddammit.

2 (34m 36s):
Yeah, well, no, no, no man. Or woman left behind, you know, one of the things I think one of the, one of the things I think I’ve taken on over the years doing such hospitality is, is trying to care for the flock. Right? So in all these different circumstances, I think it’s very important to me and, and, and certainly to make sure that everybody, you know, we have a good time. We do so many usual things, but I think it’s very important to make sure that you’re really looking out for everyone’s best interest in every circumstance, because things do get weird and sometimes they get complicated. And so, you know, we’re all human. And I think it’s, it’s, it’s good to allow for everyone to make a mistake here or there, but really just to be looking out for everybody else, which means sometimes doing hard stuff, like cutting people off at the bar and walking them back to the room and sometimes making sure they get in bed and sometimes making sure that they don’t die.

2 (35m 31s):
Like all of these things are things that have happened over the last 22 years.

1 (35m 34s):
Oh sure. Oh sure. My broker tip today has to do with what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, this will be the first in a multi-part series. First, make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic’s expensive, whether it’s search engine, traffic, review, site, traffic, or affiliate traffic, you pay it a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is you want your visitors to do in the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay in north America.

1 (36m 16s):
Most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world credit cards, aren’t used nearly as much in Europe. For instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from in Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing areas. Many people pay by mobile, do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions you get. Most of your traffic it’ll make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy, but since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t. If you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website.

1 (36m 58s):
Along with this is to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate. People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies, where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user, you poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out. Unfortunately, designers and web developers don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site next, make a good offer.

1 (37m 40s):
If you’re selling something and the offer, isn’t good. You won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you to get more information that make the offer attractive and easy to understand, if you’re selling something, make buying easy, show them an easy way to buy and then leave, help them by making suggestions on what to buy. amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this. If you can, don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images.

1 (38m 21s):
Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to do. It’s not that hard. Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through buying process like a human being, whatever you do. Don’t turn that over to your designer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is. You’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Brad Mitchell once again in part two of our interview.

1 (39m 5s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Brad Mitchell of Mojohost. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Aerie Saunders and Katy Churchill of adult model mentors. By the way, this is the 100th edition of adult site broker talk. I’d like to thank all my guests and all of our many listeners for making this possible.
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1 (1m 47s):
There were four grades of video. It will auto adapt to the best quality based on the user’s connection. Premium quality and downloads are only available to members who have a paid account. The site script can take a lot of traffic with the current server being at only a five to 10% load. There are over 30,000 videos. Retention rate is an amazing 85%, only $274,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guests today on adult side, broker talk are Arie Saunders and Katie Churchill of adult model mentors.

1 (2m 28s):
Ladies, thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk.

2 (2m 31s):
Thank you for having us. We were going to say it at the same time. I just know we were

1 (2m 37s):
Let’s try it. 1, 2, 3.

2 (2m 40s):
Thank you. Thank you for having us.

1 (2m 42s):
Yeah, it was pretty good. You got to keep working on it. Okay. So Katie Churchill has been a webcam model and independent porn producer for over eight years. She specializes in one-on-one Skype shows, fetish videos and releasing weekly videos for her fart, queens.com membership site. I got to check that one out. Katie also has experience shooting with a professional thin Dom studio and working on both token and private show. Campsites. Recently, Katie has started offering model coaching sessions through adult model mentors, which we’ll talk about a little bit to help other performers transition from big box cam sites to video call platforms like Skype and discord Katie’s writing has been published by Boyle and Mo models, a webcam startup, and ex-business you can find out more about Katie at Katie Churchill with two L’s dot com and Katie.

1 (3m 36s):
Katie had me in the past on the webcam startup podcast, and we had a blast. This should be fun today. Now, Arie Saunders has been on our show a couple of times, by the way, that makes you our first three time loser. Congratulations. You may know, and lovers the former CEO of webcam startup, there’s that name again? And founder of adult mutual aid, but she’s back again with yet another project with longtime friend and employee from webcam startup. Katie Eric has been in the adult industry for almost seven years and uses the applied practice approach to test methods and adult websites for the best coaching and blogging experience.

1 (4m 25s):
When she isn’t consulting. She also builds websites via sex workers, sites.com, streams, video games offer sexy live cam shows and creates pre-made and custom adult videos. Not to mention playing with her five dogs, which I’ve got to beat now. Cause I have six for more information about Arie visit airy fans.com. And that’s why I adopted the six dog, the fifth and six dogs area. Just to fuck with you.

2 (4m 52s):
Yeah, because we’d been talking so much, you just had to surpass me.

1 (4m 57s):
Yep. I’m waiting for you to tell me you got 10 soon,

2 (5m 1s):
10 chickens.

1 (5m 2s):
Yeah. That doesn’t count Cox. Okay. Tell, you know, I’ll be doing my walk in the morning. My speed walk along. I jumped in beach and you know, I go by the, the temple and there’s chickens and I I’ll yell cock. Anyway, adult model mentors came to fruition is airy. The former CEO of webcam startup was transitioning away from working full-time on the company due to internal issues. Katie served as the staff news writer and in addition was recommended a webcam startup by airy herself back in 2017, duo has worked closely for years and it only made sense to work on their next project together with Katie offering coaching and Arie, wanting to start a new go-to blogging and directory platform as an adult performer resource, using their combined years of experience and industry strengths, they set off to create the ultimate resource and hub for information and consultations that fit any performer’s needs.

1 (6m 3s):
You can find them@adultmodelmentors.com or on Twitter at adult mentors. I’m sorry, ladies. That’s all the time we have today.

3 (6m 14s):
Well, you’ve covered it pretty well. So

1 (6m 16s):
I do my best. Okay. So let’s get into the questions and you both can certainly address these. What is your goal for adult model mentors?

3 (6m 28s):
Katie go first. Oh, I was going to say you go first,

1 (6m 31s):
God,

3 (6m 32s):
I want to give models an idea of how successful they can be. One of the things that was really important to me with webcam startup was to show that there was an entire world out there of models who are making a middle-class income middle-class earnings. You don’t have to be a millionaire. And just because you’re not a baller, doesn’t mean that there’s no room for your business to grow and to develop. And that there are other options as well away from the kind of typical route to success. We see, we see a lot of girls who become crossover stars who make it really big on a platform like my free cams or stream mate.

3 (7m 14s):
And then they transition to doing mainstream porn, or they started out doing mainstream porn and transitioned into camming. And people really get locked into this idea that that is the road road to success. This is the way you do it, that you’ve got to have this kind of camera. You’ve got to have this kind of background. You need this millionaire lifestyle in order to really make it. And I wanted to show that there’s different kinds of success. I call myself a middle-class model. I’m middle-class in earnings. I’m middle-class in terms of where I am on across all of the different sites. But at the same time, I have found a place for me. And I’m also not a body that is very represented or hyped up in porn.

3 (7m 56s):
I have an atypical body I’m fat and sweaty and hairy. Okay. And I want to show that there are so many other routes to success. Like for me, I don’t cam on token sites, I don’t cam on private show sites anymore. I do Skype shows. And for me that’s been the way for me to be financially successful. And I want to show models that there are different routes for every person and that that’s okay. And that’s one of the reasons I love working with Arie so much because between the two of us, we’ve basically got it all covered and we found very different roads to success. But at the end, we’ve both got careers and financial freedom and all of what we were looking for, we just didn’t do it in the way that we see represented through things like expos and AVN and why not.

3 (8m 48s):
And other of the kind of porn media interviews kind of world that,

1 (8m 54s):
Hey, oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I knew you mentioned Skype shows that has just gotten to be such a big thing. I mean, I, I, one of our listings that we sold was a Skype site and it just blew me away how popular that was and how it’s gotten.

3 (9m 11s):
It’s a small niche in the grand scheme of things, but it’s gained a lot of popularity. One of the reasons is because ma I mean, I’m sure I will harp on this later because it’s one of my favorite dead horses to flog is that mainstream campsites have not kept up with the technology. Right? Guys want two way video. They want two way audio. They don’t want to be a postage stamp on your computer screen. They want their Dick filling your entire monitor. And quite frankly, that’s what I want to see too. If we’re doing two way video, I want you life-size on my screen. You know, and I think a lot of people more and more people are starting to realize that there is this other route.

3 (9m 52s):
And a lot of people are tired of making 35% of their earnings, 35 to 50%. And they look at something where they can make 70 to 86% of their income. And they’re thinking, well, why am I not doing that? I could make it more affordable, which would bring me more regular customers. Right. And that’s going to increase my income, even if I’m charging less.

1 (10m 12s):
So

3 (10m 13s):
Yeah. Skype sites are where it’s at. And I think unless campsites really get it together on the technology they’re going to be left behind.

1 (10m 20s):
Yeah. But I got a question though. Dicks filling the monitors that possible some guys,

3 (10m 29s):
I mean, you can always change the resolution, right?

1 (10m 33s):
I’m sorry. I couldn’t resist that. No air. So Eric, sorry, your turn.

2 (10m 39s):
I was going to say, we tried different approaches and ended up at the same destination. Me and Katie are both fat, hairy, and sometimes sweaty now. And it’s wonderful. I’m glad I can have this experience with her. But my goal is for adult model mentors is very similar to what I had with webcam startup. And at the time with webcam startup, it’s not how I foresaw the retirement of the site going, and I just want to work towards it. The same thing. It’s just providing free information for models. And now also the added benefit of offering consultations and being able to provide more specialized support because I mean, it’s important. Some people have very specific questions and needs, and it’s not something that an article will always fulfill for everybody.

2 (11m 27s):
Right? And some people also can’t really grasp stuff by reading it. Some people need to have someone, you know, sit down, explain it to them and kind of go over it again. And again, like when you’re studying for a test, some people like doing flashcards. Some people want to just read the source material. It’s all about what works for different people. So being able to adapt our methods to those people and make sure that everybody, the best potential for earning money and making a sustainable career is super important to both me and Katie.

1 (12m 0s):
Sure. Katie, what makes coaching different from the free resources available on the site?

3 (12m 7s):
So the difference between coaching and free resources is free resources when I write them. And I assume when Arie writes them to, although I’ve never actually asked her is we write them to be as relevant to as many people as possible. So if I say here’s three advanced tips, that’ll take your night flirt account further. And I talk about using keywords, the types of keywords that are searched. I talk about using gifts and photos, whether or not you should make it a phone with cam listing. So I kind of throw it out there and I’m saying, this is what will work for most people. Here are some things you can consider. What it doesn’t do is sit down and look at your night, flirt, listing, and go through it piece by piece with you to figure out what’s not working or what you could change, or why aren’t you showing up in search results for a certain term?

3 (12m 55s):
Oh, it’s because you’ve put all of your text in a picture, you’ve got all that information. You’ve just got it in the wrong format or why aren’t your gifts doing well? Why aren’t you getting reviews? We don’t have the opportunity to sit down and do that on an individual basis when you’re looking at free resources, Free resources, or the teacher standing at the front of the room telling you stuff.

1 (13m 17s):
Right.

3 (13m 18s):
But if you have an actual question, you can’t just scream it out because the teacher’s done and walked away. So it’s it’s yeah. It’s a speech versus a conversation, I think.

1 (13m 30s):
Okay. So Katie, so Katie get, get into the specific services you’re offering coaching for.

3 (13m 38s):
So for me, I’m obviously only offering coaching and things that I specialize in. If you would like to know how to do really well on token sites, don’t ask me, I know how to do okay. On token sites, but I only know how to do okay. So I’m not your girl for that. I’m great at night flirt, which is a phone sex site. I’m really good at talk to me, which is a phone sex site. In fact, I can help you get comfortable with phone sex, get used to phone sex, give you some tips on maximizing your listings, how to get into phone sex, if you’re nervous about it. Cause I know I was really scared to do it, which was weird. I felt better about taking my clothes off on the internet than picking up a phone and talking dirty. That’s

1 (14m 17s):
Weird, but

3 (14m 18s):
It’s really common. The number of cameras who say I can’t do phone sex, I can’t do it. Wow.

1 (14m 24s):
I guess, I guess it’s hard. I guess it’s hard for a lot of gals to be someone who they, aren’t what you have to be in phone sex.

3 (14m 36s):
Here’s the thing is phone sex. Everybody has in their mind, the old dispatch style things where they would tell you who to be call you and pick up. You are this character. This is who we’ve sold you as these days with independent CA phone sex, you get to set yourself up as your own character. So I’m Katie Churchill. When they call me, they’re calling me. It’s all my own branding. It’s all my own.

1 (15m 0s):
You’re not a, you’re not a five foot, two bucks, some buxom, blonde,

3 (15m 4s):
Not at all. It’s all my own photos. It’s all my own content. Phone sex has changed so much, but everybody still has this very 1980s, 1990s.

1 (15m 13s):
I can see, you can see I’m a real consumer of it.

3 (15m 17s):
No, but it’s funny because it is such a popular thing. Still. I make an insane amount of money off of phone sex and models. Just leave it behind. So models who are looking to get started in phone sex. Absolutely. Please. I want to help you. I want to get you in on it because you don’t have to put any makeup on. You can do it in your pajamas. Also models who are looking to transition from mainstream cam sites into Skype camming, some of the differences between how you market yourself and that sort of thing. Getting used to all the listing sites, stuff like that. Models who are nervous about doing one-on-one performances. It’s also really common that models. Aren’t sure how to interact one-on-one with customers, which is, I mean, I’m not great at interacting with a big group of people who are all watching and trying to control a show.

3 (16m 2s):
So the one-on-one can be a little bit difficult and really getting that one-on-one creating that intimacy, those experiences that keep them coming back. There are tricks to it. It is a bit of a science as well as an art, a lot of tips and tricks that you can use that hook them and keep them coming back. Right. And regulars. I mean, what is it? 20% of your clients or 80% of your money people say, okay, so you want to keep the regulars coming back and as well and models who are looking models, who are looking at getting into fetish videos, learning how to research, how to explore different fetishes, how to find your own niche, things like that.

3 (16m 42s):
So lots of stuff, just not token sites.

2 (16m 45s):
That’s what makes Katie special because Katie has a method where she enjoys connecting with her customers. One-on-one and that’s actually a style of camming. That’s a style of phone sex. It’s a style of clip production. And it’s something that not every cam person, every clip producer is accustomed to because a lot of the sites set you up so that you’re a performer. And everyone’s a viewer where Katie style allows the customer to also perform. And it increases the intimacy. And I think that adds a real edge to what Katie does.

1 (17m 19s):
I think you guys are both special. I, I can’t, I can’t say that there are two female performers in our industry that I’ve been that I’ve been more impressed with the new to, to be completely honest.

2 (17m 35s):
It’s

3 (17m 35s):
True. You two,

1 (17m 37s):
You two, you two are awesome. You two are awesome and nary. That’s why I keep having you back on because I’m a fan

2 (17m 44s):
It’s because you have a secret crush on me. It’s okay. We all know.

4 (17m 46s):
Yeah. Well, we’ll talk about that later

1 (17m 50s):
When we actually meet in person. But anyway,

2 (17m 53s):
One day you got to bring all six dogs though.

1 (17m 56s):
Oh, geez. Nah, I don’t know about that. You’re going to have to come to Tyler. If you want to meet all six dogs, you’re going to have to come out here.

2 (18m 2s):
I mean, it sounds beautiful out there.

1 (18m 5s):
It’s amazing. I got some pictures after, after our conversation to show you from dinner the other night, that’s just going to blow you away.

2 (18m 13s):
If it doesn’t include chickens. I don’t know if I want to talk. You got the chickens in the pictures.

1 (18m 19s):
No sea bass.

2 (18m 21s):
Oh, come on. You know, I love my cock pics.

3 (18m 26s):
You went a long way to set that joke of,

2 (18m 28s):
I really did. I’m so happy. I accomplished.

1 (18m 31s):
That was like the roadmap at Shina. Okay. So, so do you want to answer the same, same questionnaire?

2 (18m 37s):
Sure. So I offer social media marketing consultations tips on customer retention, establishing beginner rates. Brand-building including self publishing PR and website development. And Bruce knows I’m excellent at self published PR because he sees my PR all the time.

1 (18m 57s):
I’ve compromised. I’m complimented it. Yes.

2 (19m 1s):
I also offer consultations on mastering the algorithm on sites that you use specifically streaming and clips for sale, but I’m also able to practice on any site that you prefer to use and learn the algorithm. It’s one of my favorite things to do. Actually, I’m starting a growing your fan club, turning fetish to full time and just video marketing in general. So I’m kinda like the marketing fan club and like algorithm master

1 (19m 30s):
And you’re still, and you’re still, you’re still so young. You’re still such a baby. It just blows me away.

2 (19m 37s):
25 in like six

1 (19m 39s):
Days. Oh my God. Our 25. Oh, okay. I won’t call it. I won’t call you young anymore. You know what? You sound like. You sound like the Thai women. Oh, I 25 I old. Okay. So what kinda true they say that what kind of free information is available on your site?

2 (19m 59s):
All of it,

3 (20m 0s):
Hang on.

2 (20m 3s):
Well, me and Katie, we look at what’s trending, look at what we need information on. And we kind of do it like in a pyramid style. Like here’s the basic, and then what we could build on top of that, what we can build on top of that. And we try to go as specific as we can obviously, without being able to interact with the person directly. But we covered everything. If you can do it as an independent adult performer, it’s going to be on there. And if it’s not on there, tell us, and we will get it on there.

3 (20m 33s):
And we also publish weekly blog posts that have information that creators might need that performers might be interested in. So just a handful of the last ones attack season to do list for American independent, we’ve got advanced tips for night flirt, three things to buy for your business. In 2022, we’ve got a bunch of information about how to make your own link tree alternatives. If you’re worried about getting banned on there, how to boost your placement on stream mate. And then we also occasionally cover things like the many vids awards and ideas for how you can do things on sites like that.

1 (21m 13s):
Got it. So why offer so much for free if your end goal is to monetize your site with coaching

3 (21m 21s):
Two reasons, from my perspective, number one is paying it forward. I was fortunate that when I was a little baby cam girl, I made friends with two women. Who’d been in the industry for a very long time and they were able to just gift me their knowledge. They saved me time. They saved me money. They saved my sanity more than once. And for me, I want to give that information out as well, because I’m not some genius. I didn’t dream this all up myself. I haven’t recreated the wheel. I haven’t invented nuclear fusion or is efficient.

3 (22m 2s):
We can’t do. I can’t remember whichever one of the nuclear things we haven’t worked out yet. That one I didn’t do that. I haven’t created some miraculous thing. I’ve tried things and failed. And I’ve also had the benefit of the learning of other people who have tried and tested and failed and succeeded. And so for me, part of it is paying it forward. But to a wider degree, then my friends were able to do. They just had me to take under their wing. I want to take everyone under my wing. The other reason is to prove that I know what I’m talking about. If I just stand here and say, hi, I’m a cam coach. You should pay me. That’s great.

3 (22m 42s):
Except that I’m a performer across a multiple sites. As most performers are these days. I’m not number one on any site. So I don’t have that easy proof where I can say, look, I’m number one on stream, mate. Obviously I know what I’m doing instead. I can say, well, I’m this number on this site? I’m this number on this site? I’m this number up, but that’s really hard to put into a quick and easy. Here’s why you should trust me. So I want to show people, I do know what I’m talking about. I do have valuable information. If you like this information, then we’re probably a good fit.

1 (23m 16s):
Yeah. And let’s face it. Okay. Just because somebody is number one at something doesn’t mean they know anything. They might

3 (23m 27s):
No trust me. I paid for all those only fans courses to find out if they knew shit and they don’t

1 (23m 32s):
Well and well, and here’s the thing, okay. Many of them are just number one because well, one they’re incredibly hot or two. They’re very good at what they do, but I kind of liken it to sports as, as I like in many things, you know, some of the greatest baseball players of all time were some of the shittiest commentators of all time, because they could do it. Or they were the worst coaches of all time. In this case, they could, they could do it, but they couldn’t tell you how to do it. And then the other thing is some of the greatest athletes of all time were so good at it.

1 (24m 16s):
They had no patience with people who weren’t as good with it.

2 (24m 20s):
Yeah. Also as the resident marketing expert, I am going to add why offer the free resources it’s marketing. I mean, SEO so important. And having these articles up that have all of these keywords. That mean Katie specialize in, and they’re actually rich and full of content is going to perform much better than just a basic consultation page. And we do love sharing the information obviously, or we wouldn’t have, like, we have probably 300, 400 articles up on the site, but it’s also just a fantastic way for marketing. And it’s kind of a knock to the fact that we’re good at marketing and we’re good at the things we say we’re good at

1 (25m 4s):
Yes you are now. And what you, what you did with webcam start-up and the SEO. There is nothing short of amazing. So, you know, yeah. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Now there were loads of cam coaches out there. What do you bring to the table that others don’t

2 (25m 23s):
Or wonderful personalities? Obviously, just kidding. I think that we bring something that I want Katie to elaborate on because she already talked about it a little bit, but we are middle-class performers where average. And I think Katie will agree with me there.

1 (25m 42s):
I don’t think you two are average, but anyway,

3 (25m 45s):
No, but we’re people that are, we are very average. None of us, neither of us burst onto the scene and got profiled and expos, neither of us lucked out and got picked by many vids to be the face of a campaign. We haven’t had any of those lucky happenstance moments that other models might have had that catapult them to the top. I mean, we’ve seen models go from invisible. They get a video picked to be featured on the front page of porn hub at random. And suddenly they’re making a hundred thousand dollars a month. So we have, I always say, I forced my way to success. I had things working against me and I was able to push through it, figure out what worked, go through and actually find out what makes people click on profiles, how to show up in search, all of those things that you don’t need to find if you’ve had a lucky accident.

3 (26m 40s):
Yup. And so I think that that gives me a lot more ability to help other people because I, I can’t look and say, well, I only managed to make it to the front page because I got picked to be on the banner for the site. So they put me on the front page. So the guys would see the same face they clicked on from the ad. I don’t have anything like that. I’ve been able to do it from zero

2 (27m 3s):
And we worked to get here and we continue to work to do what we do. And I think it also helps we aren’t on anyone’s payroll.

3 (27m 13s):
No, you’re not. I could be if you want me to, but not out there

1 (27m 18s):
I can be. I can be. But she says, I am

3 (27m 21s):
Extremely cheap.

2 (27m 24s):
There’s a lot of websites out there that will pay for preferential treatment, preferential reviews, and they’ll even hire cam coaches. And then those cam coaches got to go on and say, you know, I have the experience cause I was the official camp coach for whatever site and we don’t have that. But I think that’s actually more of a benefit to us because we’re more relatable. Everything that we know, we worked hard to learn. We tried, we practice it. We don’t just, you know, say, Hey, do this it’ll work. We did it to see if it would work. If it didn’t work, we tell you

3 (28m 0s):
We’re also both active models, which I think is something that’s really overlooked. There are cam coaches that haven’t performed in years. And I think that that’s really to the detriment of the people they’re helping. I mean, they might be hip with the latest developments on the performer dashboard on paper. But I think when you haven’t used the product, when you haven’t been the product, that also makes a big difference. Especially now when technology is changing so fast, when we have changing demographics of camming, when all of the marketing stuff is changing so quickly with Twitter and Tik, TOK and Instagram and people using Twitch and YouTube and all sorts of things,

1 (28m 42s):
Things

3 (28m 43s):
Yet regulations change what you can. And can’t say on cam has changed what you can and can’t put in videos. And I think when you start looking at models who have not performed for two years, three years, I know of a cam coach who hasn’t performed in over 10 years and people are still paying her and she is not actively on any sites. And because she was a big name, she was a huge name. And I’m absolutely not going to tell you who, but she was a big name and she had a couple of those gigs, but now her stuff is very limited to we’ll put out a sexy picture on Twitter before you go on cam. Everybody knows that.

1 (29m 24s):
Yeah.

3 (29m 25s):
How do you make yourself actually stand out now? You know, having a good profile picture isn’t enough anymore. You still have people saying, oh, well, if you have a good profile picture on streaming, like you can upload your own. Well, no. Now you need to have one taken recently

2 (29m 43s):
To trick that,

3 (29m 45s):
See, there you go. And those are the things that you need to learn is how to, you know, Aries got the tricks, but you still see that in, in some of these cam courses that are sold, you still see how to upload your own picture to streaming. And it’s like, that’s not the case anymore. This course is old.

1 (30m 2s):
Yeah. And let’s keep, let’s keep something in mind. Okay. Who doesn’t have a sexy picture on streaming? I mean, I mean, that’s kind of a dog. No. Have an ugly picture on streaming.

3 (30m 14s):
They used to have a thing on stream may where it would just automatically take a photo of you.

2 (30m 19s):
Now it takes a live photo and you know what? I’m going to give a free trick for all the people out there so that I can prove that I am actually experienced. And what I talk about, if you stream on a broadcasting system, like OBS open up your preferred photo and put that as your overlay, and then you can just set it to visible or invisible, make it invisible for when you take your scan photo to prove you are who you are and then make it visible for when it takes your picture and the no more crappy looking live photo, unless you’re very confident about your setup. And then you can do that. But also you can use this to put keywords like on your screen.

2 (31m 1s):
So when I’m only doing fem Dom shows, I’ll put fem Dom shows. So people don’t come in and say, Hey, do you want to like dildo yourself for 50 minutes? So, yeah.

3 (31m 10s):
See, and it’s those little things that go a long way when you’re helping someone with their profile or helping them up their game. And it’s those things that you don’t know if you’re not an active model.

1 (31m 25s):
Sure. So Katie, what originally drew you to Skype and away from the more popular mainstream campsites?

3 (31m 34s):
For me, it was all about that one-on-one stream mate started doing gold shows and encouraging you to do more and more stuff in public chat, although they still technically had their rules. But let’s be honest is that I wanted that private show thing for me. I do a lot of fetish shows, but I do a lot of private shows. And that was really all I was doing. Whether I was on a token site or on a site light stream, mate, that’s allegedly more private show based. Private shows were where I made all my money, but the sites just aren’t set up for them very well. You know, the guys have to type, if you, if they turn their audio on, it’s really laggy and slow or really hollow.

3 (32m 18s):
And you can’t really hear what they’re saying. You can only get a tiny postage stamp picture of their camera if they’re, if you do cam to cam. And it, it just didn’t make sense that with the technology that we had, that this was the best option for people, but this was the best that we could do. I wanted it to be a real intimate show. I mean, charging a premium price. So I want them to get a premium experience and this isn’t a hit, if you have to stop

1 (32m 46s):
What you’re doing

3 (32m 47s):
To type, and that just didn’t feel very luxury to me. And

1 (32m 54s):
I’m in safe hands might be tied up at the moment.

3 (32m 56s):
Yeah. You can’t type, you know, and not only that, if you’re doing a fetish show, what they’re doing on screen is important. Like watching them, especially if you’re doing any kind of jerk-off instructions or any sort of femdom stuff that involves instructions, you have to be able to see what they’re doing. Yeah.

2 (33m 14s):
You tell them to hit their penis and they’re not hitting their penis. It’s not a real good femdom show.

3 (33m 18s):
And he can’t tell what they’re doing on those little tiny screens. Yes.

1 (33m 23s):
And don’t tell me to hit my penis please, because that would hurt.

3 (33m 26s):
Well, that’s why you’re not one of Aries subs.

1 (33m 31s):
I’m not, I’m not anybody’s baby,

3 (33m 37s):
But yeah. So for me, I did not like the experience that my customers were getting. I felt like they were paying for something they weren’t getting. So I started looking around and I started asking questions on forums and models kept saying, oh, you need to do Skype shows. And I was like, well, what the fuck does that mean? So I was on chatter bay, I believe at the time. And I don’t know if this is still the case, but you used to be able to take tokens for Skype shows. So that’s what I started doing. So they would pay me tokens on chatter bait, and then we would go on Skype and do the actual show And guys loved it. They like it. I would get on chatter bait and I would, I would stream for like four hours and I would do no shows on chatter bay whatsoever.

3 (34m 22s):
No private shows. I wouldn’t do anything in public chat. It would just be me logging in and out getting my tokens and going to Skype. And I thought there has to be a better way to do this. And then I learned about night flirt and I learned about cam model directory. And those were the two that I used and suddenly the money I was charging and the service I was giving became equal, Where now I had them on my screen, big size. We could talk back and forth. There was no lag. We were both getting HD video. Nobody had to type. It was absolutely wonderful. And it, yeah, it made me feel like I was giving the service that I wanted to give that my

2 (35m 5s):
Katie are so good at like treating your customers like they’re humans and not just money.

3 (35m 11s):
My customers are all humans to me. I keep track of all sorts of things about them. Because for me, this business is a customer service business first and foremost. And I know that that seems like a weird way to look at it sometimes. And a lot of people don’t agree with me. I know there’s like very much a trend among some models to like talk down about customers and things like that. That’s really not my vibe. My customers, some of them are so close that honestly, if I don’t see them for awhile, I do worry about them. You know, they are, they are people. They are, I don’t want to say friends because that’s not aligned that I cross with customers, but they are so important to me without them.

3 (35m 53s):
I can’t pay my rent. I don’t have

1 (35m 56s):
Food.

3 (35m 57s):
I don’t have the electricity on me and my cat or out on the street. So for me, it’s really important to create an experience that where your customers feel valued, where your customers feel that they’re taking care of, where they feel that they are, that they’re wanted essentially. I mean, our whole job is to be wanted. And one of the ways that I made sure I’m wanted is by giving them an experience that they’ll want to come back for. And for me, that’s been Skype shows.

2 (36m 27s):
They also treat you more human in return. I feel like when you treat a customer, like they’re just money, they treat you like you’re just sex. So I feel like that has a huge benefit for long-term income. I love Katie Katie’s mess. Oh, my dogs are barking.

1 (36m 44s):
Okay. Mute music to my ears, music to my ears.

2 (36m 49s):
Katie’s method is just wonderful. And I think that she’s great at what she does. And I think the way she establishes relationships with customers is just, it’s awesome.

1 (36m 58s):
Yeah. Well, it should be universal. So now you Arie, you’ve said you use applied practice to test out and methods that you recommend. Can you elaborate a little bit?

2 (37m 10s):
So we kind of already flogged this horse a bit back in the however many questions ago, but basically I, I try what I recommend. I don’t just recommend things to recommend them. I’m not like, Hey, this will work for you. And just sit back and let people go for it and fail it. If I see it work and I know it can work, that’s when I recommend it to someone I’m not going to give outdated advice or old advice or advice that I haven’t tried myself. Because if I don’t know if it works, I can’t tell you if it will. And I think it’s so important that as someone offering consultations and mentoring and coaching, that you make sure what you’re telling people is actually worthwhile.

2 (37m 58s):
And if it doesn’t work for me and it works for you, that’s great. But I’m never going to recommend something that hasn’t worked for me because I can’t like say wholeheartedly, like, I believe this will work for you because you know, it’s just, if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. And I think that’s another important part of coaching when people get coaching from me or from Katie, like things may work for you that didn’t work for us. And that’s fantastic. And things may work for us that won’t work for you. But the whole thing with coaching is when you pay me, I’m going to tell you every single bit of thing I can from my experience, because I’ve tried it and I know how to make it work.

2 (38m 43s):
And I just, I feel like that’s a huge part of it. Like you

1 (38m 46s):
Can get all

2 (38m 47s):
Sorts of different.

1 (38m 49s):
Yeah. And not only your experiences, but the experiences of your clients.

2 (38m 53s):
Exactly. And I have, you know, I have friends that have tried things and I’ll actually quiz them. I’ll be like, Hey, you know, let me log into your account and see what you did. Let me see how you did that. Because if I’m going to end up recommending this to someone, I want to see what you did. I want to see how you got there. I, I never want to give a piece of advice. That’s not backed up by someone having succeeded doing it. Right.

1 (39m 18s):
Right. So what inspires the two of you to continue providing help and resources to new and experienced models?

3 (39m 28s):
Sometimes I met, it can be a little bit hard when you put a whole bunch of time and energy into a model who ends up quitting because they got a new boyfriend or they got bored. They didn’t see results right away. Yeah. But for me, what keeps me coming back is getting DMS well, formerly on Twitter, I don’t have Twitter anymore, but I used to get lots of DMS on Twitter that were like, Hey, you wrote this article. I tried it. And it changed everything. Hey, I signed up for this site after you reviewed it. And it’s been amazing. You know, things like that. Keep me going, knowing that I’m helping people.

3 (40m 9s):
I really, that makes my heart happy. I love, I do a lot of volunteering in my non-sex work life. I really love helping people. I love knowing that, just something I did made someone’s day just a little bit easier or a little bit better. And I’ve always been that way. It can be tough though. When you see people drop out, when you see people quit, but it’s, it’s the people who are still trying. That’s what I’m here for.

2 (40m 36s):
And as someone who wasn’t banished from Twitter, the love that me and Katie receive is crazy. Like I’ll have probably at least one newer model a day. That’ll reach out to me and say, Hey, I saw your article on webcam startup or adult model mentors, or, you know, wherever else I’ve posted articles. I’ve been posted on. Like, I think I got on <inaudible> ABN all sorts of different places and they reach out and they’re like, this really helped me. Thank you so much. And then I also went to why not community. And I ran into a very, very popular cam performer fan club performer.

2 (41m 17s):
And she was like, oh my God, wait, you run that site. I use that site like a Bible. And I know this woman is crazy successful. And I’m just like, holy shit,

1 (41m 30s):
Can you mention a name?

2 (41m 32s):
But

1 (41m 33s):
Can you, her? Nah,

2 (41m 34s):
I’m not going to do that. Cause we didn’t talk. We didn’t talk about publicizing her name. So I’m not going to do that. But I’ve, I’ve run into so many instances of people using information, me or Katie provide and just taking it and running with it. And that encourages me to just keep helping. And even if these people, a lot of people don’t know me and Katie are behind the information we put out. Cause we don’t make it like blatantly obvious. But obviously some sites also allow you to look into who you’ve referred. So I’ve seen, you know, so many people who I see just doing crazy successful ventures and there are referrals and I’m just like, oh my God, it’s, it’s absolutely wild.

2 (42m 19s):
So the impact that we have is so large and sometimes we don’t even realize it. No.

1 (42m 26s):
So what keeps the two of you in the adult industry year after year and keeps you excited about your work?

2 (42m 35s):
Katie likes titling herself. That’s why

3 (42m 42s):
I was going to save the work itself. Quite frankly, I do. I love the sexual aspect of the work. Not gonna lie. That part of it is really great for me. I get paid to masturbate versus having to wait until I’m off the clock. So that’s, I mean, that’s this fringe benefits of it. Obviously. I like the fact that it’s really flexible and allows me to be creative. Fetishes are fascinating and wonderful. I mean, Arie just discovered a new fetish today. When I told her about one of my recent best-selling videos and she had no idea, it was even a kink and

2 (43m 20s):
Don’t tell him what it is. He’s going to laugh at us.

3 (43m 26s):
Stinky pussy videos. Yeah. Saying that your pussy like smells like old dead fish and it’s slimy and gross. It’s a whole kink. And I discovered it

1 (43m 37s):
And I’m glad I already,

3 (43m 40s):
I, I made a video and it’s become extremely popular. And so things like that discovering new fetishes, just really, I was going to say butters my bread. I don’t know if that’s the saying or if I just made it up, but I love discovering new fetishes. I love the creativity. I love performing. But honestly, at the end of the day, I get paid to masturbate and that is a pretty sweet ass privilege to have.

2 (44m 9s):
So for me, who doesn’t quite enjoy the diddling so much as Katie does, I’m actually like pretty much asexual. So I it’s all performance for me, but what keeps me involved is the freedom of the schedule. My ability to be able to take time off. If I need time off as someone who struggles with mental illness, I feel like having the ability to structure my work around how I’m doing is really important to me. Yeah. And I mean, it’s a, it’s a double-edged sword, you know, sometimes I’ll just be sad and sleep and I definitely shouldn’t keep sleeping, but I can, but I have the freedom to do that.

2 (44m 50s):
I’m not going to get fired from my job because I’m having a bad day. And I think that’s really important to myself and also to other people in the industry that struggle with mental illness. It’s a very common thing. Yes.

1 (45m 2s):
Have you, have you utilized the services of pineapple support?

2 (45m 7s):
I have used pineapple support and they recommended me a terrific therapist and it was great, but I feel like I’m too much of a, I’m too loud in the industry because I ended up on a, talking on a panel with my therapist at the time and I found that to be a little bit weird. So I’ve sought out a new therapist now.

1 (45m 28s):
Okay. Yeah. But what they do, what they do is really phenomenal, isn’t it?

3 (45m 32s):
Yeah. Their webinars are amazing. I’ve gone to several of their webinars, which are also free to people in the industry. And while I haven’t used their counseling services, what they do is incredibly incredibly important. It is so difficult to find sex work, positive therapists, and the fact that they’re able to match people up and sometimes offer support with the funding for it is just,

2 (45m 56s):
They almost always offer support with the funding of it. Like you get a special discount if you’re connected through pineapple support. And I think that’s just, that’s excellent because therapy services aren’t cheap. And if you’re already in a stigmatized industry, it’s so scary to spend, you know, a hundred, $200 on something. If you think it might go bad. Yeah.

1 (46m 15s):
Yeah. I, I’m a proud bi-polar. So I, I jumped on the opportunity to sponsor a pineapple support for through our company and I plugged them every chance I get. So is your mentorship and coaching available for hire by adult website owners as well as for models?

3 (46m 43s):
Yes.

1 (46m 46s):
That was a quick one.

3 (46m 48s):
I think both area. And I have worked with some sites in the past that have been looking for models to review things or look at what they’re working on. Give them feedback more sites should do that. Just putting that out there. But I mean, we’re currently watching the fallout of cam model directory, choosing not to ask models what they think that’s, we’ll see how that goes for them. But yeah, absolutely. We’re open to working with companies, whether they want to look at coaching for their models or whether they’re interested in model reviews and feedback, beta testers, hoping with that sort of thing.

3 (47m 31s):
I think that would be a really fun opportunity. I’ve done a little bit of it, but I would love to do more.

2 (47m 37s):
We’re even more efficient if you get us as a pair too, because we nitpick totally different things. So we will get you a hundred percent there.

1 (47m 45s):
There you go. So how can websites contact you about being featured or reviewed on your website?

2 (47m 54s):
You can contact us directly in order to be featured on the website. You can also send an email to adult model mentors@gmail.com. I know it’s not a professional email we’re working on it, but yeah, you can just reach out to either of us individually, whether you have our emails, you can, a lot of people have already reached out to me personally. So I feel like you guys are all figuring it out. If you’re listening, congratulations, you’re good at what you do.

3 (48m 23s):
Yeah. Reach out to airy. I’m not the best necessarily

2 (48m 28s):
I was going to forward you to me. So I guess just reach out to me

3 (48m 33s):
Areas a lot better at the businessy stuff of having a site.

1 (48m 38s):
So how go ahead.

2 (48m 41s):
So yeah, I was just going to say, if you want to reach out to me directly Arie at Arie, saunders.com is the best way to reach me

1 (48m 47s):
Beautiful. Now how can performers reach out to book consultations?

3 (48m 53s):
So if you go to adult model mentors.com and you click on consultations, it’ll take you to a little page that has area. My pretty face is on it. And there is a button I believe where you can click to request a consultation and it’ll take you to a form where you can fill out some information about kind of what you’re looking for. And we will get back to you pretty darn quickly to follow up, to find a date and a time that works for you. And we’re open to all time zones. You don’t have to be. Cause someone asked me, oh my gosh, what if it’s in the middle of the night for you? That’s fine. I can make coffee anytime of day

1 (49m 34s):
As Ken. I know how that goes. So what are the next big plans for adult model mentors?

2 (49m 41s):
Ooh, this one’s exciting. So we have a new mentor. That’s going to be joining our teams soon. And it’s a name that people actually know and love. Are we excited? Can I get, can I get a drum roll? Very excited. Alice scary. So they are the model liaison for just for fans. And they have been in the industry for a long time. They are a non-binary performer and they have a ton of experience doing fetish work collaborations and just all sorts of different stuff in the industry. So they are going to be also offering consultations through our site and uploading articles and stuff.

2 (50m 24s):
So I’m very excited. I’ll type it in the chat because it doesn’t, it’s Alice scary, but it’s with a K it’s not like scary, like scary. It’s scary with kit.

1 (50m 36s):
I’ll take your word for it. Okay. Very good ladies. I would like you, I would so much like to thank you for being our guests today. I’m an adult side broker talk and I know we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon.

2 (50m 52s):
Oh God. We did it again.

1 (50m 54s):
That was okay. That was, that was better. That was better. My broker tip today is part seven of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement in escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owners participation will be after the sale, you’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things. If you don’t have experience in these things, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult business consulting.

1 (51m 39s):
You can get more information on what this company does and adult business consulting.com. We help website owners, project manage and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting, payments, production, scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help. Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting firm to help evaluate all of these items and everything, the site is spending money on and using to operate the website, make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better.

1 (52m 24s):
Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service. Many times the server is just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website next week. We’ll talk about how to sell a website. And next week we’ll be speaking with Brad Mitchell of mojo host. He’ll have lots to say about hosting. You don’t want to miss that. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests, Aerie and Katy of adult model mentors. Talk to you again next week on adult site broker talk.

1 (53m 4s):
I’m Bruce Friedman.

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