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Adult Site Broker Talk

At Adult Site Broker we broker websites and companies for the adult space. In this podcast we speak to the movers and shakers of the adult industry, in all aspects of the business. And we tell you how to buy or sell a website or company for maximum profit and with a minimum of trouble.

Adult Site Broker Talk

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Anna Lee of 2049 Entertainment.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale a tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is three years old. They’re currently the only free tool providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user requests and user provided content after moderation users started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it. And he wanted to visit such a site.

It soon became popular on Reddit and business soared. The owner is decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry, the sites visitors come back again and again, due to its uniqueness, they have over 13,000 premium videos, and most of them are 30 minutes or longer with more videos and categories. The site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There is no advertising for the site. All of the traffic is either typing or from SEO.

This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic, only 359,000 us dollars. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site, broker talk is Anna Lee of 2 0 4 9 entertainment. Anna, thanks for being back with us again today on adult side, broker talk,

Speaker 2 (3m 4s): Always a pleasure, always a pleasure,

Speaker 1 (3m 7s): Pleasure as always mind, and it hits. And as we know, you know, you and is, and has been in the adult industry for over 20 years, that’s, that’s hard to believe actually in the early two thousands, she had a web-based cam and phone sex service. Many of you know her as the former president of other vers in 2015, she started hollow film productions, which was the parent company of hollow girls, vr.com. There, Anna was an is its president and executive producer and 2019, she launched 2 0 4 9 entertainment, Inc.

A virtual reality production company that creates cutting edge, immersive inclusive, engaging content in live action, film, audio, and digital animation formats that is both innovative and entertaining while incorporating the latest in film and sex technology applications besides working on more of their own projects to oh four nine is one of the top adult VR production studios. And they’re currently in full-time production for various studios, 2 0 4, 9 entertainment and hall of film productions have won numerous awards already in their short life span and has also recently become very much involved in NFTs and cryptocurrencies, which I’m anxious to hear about.

So Anna, last time we spoke your company, your company was rather new. Now you’ve got another year under your belt. How are things going?

Speaker 2 (4m 35s): Well, it’s been a very interesting time, you know, the pandemic continues to about that. Yeah. It keeps, it keeps this nest stuff stopping yet fully stuffed. Yeah. So it’s been a very interesting time in the, you know, 20, 49 has made the best of it. We’ve, we’ve done a tremendous amount of work with numerous amount of studios and I’m very grateful full of gratitude to be able to work with almost everybody. And it’s been a wonderful experience. It’s been really great as well for, for the industry up in Canada, where I am, and especially for the talent, that’s appear to give them a taste of, of being able to be a part of something that they may not have traditionally been able to be in to have been a part of unless they were in the U S so we took advantage of that.

We’ve done really well, but we’ve kind of come to a space of where we’re shifting gears a little bit. Number one, unfortunately, we still are very short on talent here. There’s not enough to keep sort of the, the train going, so to speak studios while they are amazing. And they treat the ones that I’ve worked with have been amazing and treated us wonderfully and have booked the women and men that are up here numerous times. They still are always looking for fresh faces.

So that has been a bit of a challenge, but more so as well, vaccine mandate have come in. Sure. And especially where I live, and I have decided personally to adopt the same policies as the mainstream film industry, we’re doing the same thing. And if, if not more so, you know, it’s, it’s a lot more close contact than you would in a regular movie. Right? So, yeah, so I’ve adopted the same policies for production as the mainstream film industry, which is fully vaccinated.

And unfortunately that’s caused a significant drop-off in a lot of talent. And so we’ve really shifted focus, but at the same time, it was kind of going in this direction of heading back to my roots, which is more of the tech side, the crypto side, the NFT side. And so that’s what I’ve been focusing a lot in the last few months, as well as doing some non adult stuff. I’m not sure how much I’m allowed to say, but I’m working with that.

And also been working with two lovely performers as well to really bring up their websites as well. One miss Samantha Mac and the other is Ms. Kelly Shibari, AKA Kelly, Nakatomi

Speaker 1 (7m 17s): Kelly. I haven’t talked to her forever.

Speaker 2 (7m 20s): Right. She is amazing. She is coming back. It took a little bit of a break and has decided to sort of enter back into the space. A lot of our focus though, and a lot of my focus that I’ve been sort of looking at is this merging of, of, or this crossing over, if you will, from adult to non adult, from adult to the mainstream industry, the lines are blurring and with, you know, the bit, you know, only fans being much more heavily accepted by everybody.

It’s not such a thing anymore, if I can put it that way. So it’s just, there’s not such a stigma attached anymore to having had a past in adults or having worked in adult. Yeah. And you know, you said yourself, I’ve been in this industry for a minute, so we’re getting a little bit older. We’re getting older as we are. And you know, you can only see so many boobs in your lifetime.

Speaker 1 (8m 16s): No, wait a minute. I I’m still, I’m still not tired of seeing boobs.

Speaker 2 (8m 22s): Oh,

Speaker 1 (8m 23s): Okay. Okay. I was wondering about that and I didn’t think I’d ever hear that from you either.

Speaker 2 (8m 28s): We didn’t say we’re tired. We’re just slowing down a little bit, you know, it’s, it’s a little, it’s a little harder to get out of bed in the morning, you know, so we’re just, we’re, we’re really exploring. And what I’ve been doing, especially with 2049 is exploring how can we translate or bring ourselves over to sort of a bigger audience with a background in adult and providing, you know, the same sort of amazing content I tech content, innovative content that we’ve been, but, you know, with a little bit more covered up.

So that’s something that we’ve really been exploring lately

Speaker 1 (9m 2s): Kind of like a PG type of thing.

Speaker 2 (9m 6s): I would say, I would say a hard R but not quite, not quite Fiji, not quite, but you never know. I mean, give me another 10 years, right, right there.

Speaker 1 (9m 18s): Yeah, exactly. Will you make sure and send my love to Kelly? She is a, she is a doll and tell her, I miss the hugs. So please, so you talked about the whole fact that you’re requiring vaccinations, which I think is fantastic. How has that besides, you know, having a smaller universe of models, how has that impacted your business?

Speaker 2 (9m 45s): It’s a, it’s shut down production locally, completely. We have not been able to find any models, the Lord fully vaccinated. Unfortunately, I, you know, I’m, I’m the biggest advocate of, you know, your body, your choice, you know, whatever you decide to choose. But I, I, I made that personal decision based on a few things. I mean, like, you know, we’re kind of joking around about being older, but you know, let’s face it. I am. Right. So there’s that. And also too, I have very amazing community that I live in.

I have the most wonderful neighbors who I’m fully transparent with and who are very aware of what I do. And I’ve been very supportive of it. And every single one of them is vaccinated. And, you know, on top of abiding by the film, you know, the rulings of the film industry in general as a whole. And I, when I say film industry, I mean beyond adults, I mean the wider film industry units in itself, you know, I decided that that was the best choice for myself and the people that are supportive of my business and that are in immediate contact with me on a daily basis on top of which I do have a very close family and friends who are in the non adult industry.

And if I want to spend time with them or work on those sets, which I have been doing as well, I cannot do so I can not go to set. I can not even spend time with a few of them unless I am vaccinated other under contract in order to, you know, they have to be. So I made the decision very easy for me. Unfortunately it meant that I had to stop production perhaps temporarily, perhaps for longer term up here in Canada.

I have however, been traveling and I have gone back to the U S I have gone back to Los Angeles. I have been there once so far since this whole thing started. And that was last month. And I will be going down again very shortly as well, provided everything remains, you know? Okay. Enough. And yeah. And so, you know, I will be resuming some shooting. There was specific people, but I’m, I’m upholding, you know, I’m upholding the, you know, the 20, 49 stance on required vaccinations.

My entire crew as well without even being asked is box two. So it’s, it’s a matter of, I feel like just, you know, listening and seeing who was around me and who’s supporting me and, and going with that. And, you know, I wish everybody the best. I hope it all works out for them, but it’s very interesting time.

Speaker 1 (12m 28s): Yes, indeed. Don’t even get me started about people who refuse to get vaccinated. I agree with your body, your choice, but don’t get me started. Sorry. Now how does commuting between LA and Vancouver impact your life?

Speaker 2 (12m 45s): This impact my life? Yeah. Well, I mean, other than I got to get a babysitter for the pups two dogs, not really. I have a huge community in Los Angeles. I’ve been very fortunate, lots of friends and some family now that are there and residing there. And it’s literally a, I think it’s a two hour flight from up to down. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s not really going to impact my life other than I got to admit. It was very nice for the time that I did get to shoot in my house.

I didn’t have to go.

Speaker 1 (13m 18s): Yeah. You talked about that last time. It sounded really good.

Speaker 2 (13m 22s): Oh, it was a treat. It was a treat to be able to, you know, slowly set up and then slowly tear down and have everything. And if you were missing something, you knew exactly where it was. You can go get it. So it made things a lot easier, but you know, here we are, and we’re always about innovating. We’re always about moving forward. And I do welcome the opportunity to go back down and to work with some different people and to work with, you know, talent. That’s, that’s been around for a minute and, and they’re very high caliber and, you know, and collaborate with old faces, familiar faces and, you know, create some really cool stuff that I was limited here.

You know, there was only so much to go around. So, but we, we had a great run and the run may not be over. You never know what’s going to happen. Right. So maybe somebody listening to this will be like, oh, I’d love to work with Anna. And so, you know, next week will be a moot point and I’ll be back shooting here. So

Speaker 1 (14m 17s): Well with the millions of people who listened to this podcast, I mean, it’s, it’s likely,

Speaker 2 (14m 21s): You never know. You never know. Never know maybe those things.

Speaker 1 (14m 24s): Absolutely. Now I have found that out. I have people mentioned, mentioned the podcast to me, and I’m always flattered now. I understand. And you, you alluded to it, you’ve entered into a new partnership with Mac movies and Samantha Mac wanted to tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (14m 45s): Well, Samantha Mack has been a long time collaborator difference. I’ve known her for quite a while and she’s originally from Vancouver and has been in the us in Los Angeles for the last year. But one of the things, you know, that make my skillset very unique is I started off, well, let’s say in the sort of the first, the first act of my career, first, the second act, my career, you can tell. I work in film the first, the second act of my career, I was very fortunate to be able to work from a perspective of not only having the knowledge of being able to produce and so on and so forth, but also webmaster knowledge, which is invaluable running a website, running a membership site.

So I do have to think other verse for that for giving me that knowledge relay center for giving me 13 years, I think D did with them learning how to read statistics, you know, sell ads, buy ads, run a member site, deal with members. So I’m in a very fortunate position of where I can do both. Oftentimes we’ll run into people who are just on the production side or just on the website. So thankfully I’ve been able to do both and merge the two. And after a couple of talks with Sam, we decided, you know, especially as things were slowing down for me over here on the production side, I said, let me get a crack at your site and see if we can do something with it.

I said, give me three months. And three months has turned into, I don’t even know what now. So yeah. So we’ve entered a longterm partnership. I mean, she’s always been a great partner collaborator from the beginning. So, but I am actively supporting her with Mac movies. We’re doing some amazing things with the site. We’re releasing three gorgeous scenes a week. So that’s, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot three seeds a week. There’s yeah, we are featuring a new model every month.

And these are models who are, who have been supportive with us or supportive of us in the beginning, as well as girls from Canada too. Oh, that’s been very important to us to, to really showcase that we’ve got some amazing talent up here and yeah, we’ve, you know, we’ve been pushing forward and I’m anxious to see how it goes, come and works time because Sam has really put in the hard yards. I don’t know. I think that’s an Australian saying, I don’t know, I say that, but she’s really put in the work and, and it shows both physically and behind in her business.

And we’ve got some big plans as well for merchandise, the TV show, you know, and like I said, I’ve been very, very fortunate in my career to have had experience in working in all these areas. And so it’s been a, it’s been a wonderful, wonderful experience and a great honor to be able to work with somebody who trusts me enough to say, Hey, let’s go and do this. Let’s go and do this and see, you know, some of the stuff, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re figuring it out as we go, especially as we move into the non adult territory.

And we climb out of our safety net, which is a been very interesting, but to, to work with somebody who I’ve known for so long, and we have that trust, there is really great because it motivates both of us to take some risks that we probably wouldn’t have done with anybody else or had she, had she hired somebody else to help her, you know, it’s a manager might not have agreed to that because they’re maybe too afraid to do the crossover. So, yeah. So with her and I have a lot of plans and you know, and we’re starting to see them come together and, and some of them, like I said, include, include venturing out of the adult space and into the non adult potentially network TV area.

Speaker 1 (18m 39s): Yeah. That’s great. You’ll have to, you don’t have to send me a user password. I can see some of the work you’ve done over there.

Speaker 2 (18m 45s): 100%

Speaker 1 (18m 47s): Love it. I love it. So I love to see your work. So I recently interviewed Michael, Federo say the attorney, and when I asked him what he thought, the next big thing would be, he said VR and the technology has been an adult for some years now. And you were among the first to get involved with it. So how is VR doing overall and what do you see as its future?

Speaker 2 (19m 18s): Well, first of all, thanks Michael, for believing in us, he actually, you know, side sidebar here, he’s actually always been a believer of VR from the beginning. He was very instrumental in having a hollow film, be a part of the avian awards many, many years ago on streaming and VR. So I thank him for that. I thank him for always being an advocate and a supporter of it. And so that’s awesome that he’s still is totally behind us. I’m that, to answer your question, the, the current state of VR was that the first part of the question and where do I think it’s going?


Speaker 1 (19m 51s): What, what’s the current state of VR and overall, and what do you see as its future?

Speaker 2 (19m 56s): I think VR had a baby resurgence, especially during COVID. It was a very nice way. I know myself, you know, personal tale here. I know myself getting my Oculus quest to finally, after it came back and stock spent a considerable amount of time walking around Thailand and walking around like, you know, in Brazil through the headset, you know? So that was, I literally won’t use myself for like, like, could you can’t see the time? Right. So I’m like, I put that bad boy on. And then all of a sudden it’s like, after minutes, like what squid on here, you know, we already partying in Thailand in my headset.

Speaker 1 (20m 31s): So I have to do it in person out here with that.

Speaker 2 (20m 34s): Eventually, eventually it’s going to happen. Actually, it’s quite at the top of my list, but you know, there, there was a, there was a bit of a resurgence there during COVID for, to allow people to, you know, form of escapism, get out there and do stuff when they were trapped in their homes. And in terms of the content itself, the demand was not slowed down. In fact, I’ve seen an increase in it. Now, mind you, I am not currently running a VR site, a member site, so I don’t have exact figures for you, but in terms of the demand coming from studios for, for content it’s increased, it’s definitely increased.

So where do I see the art going? And it’s it’s profitable. It must be however, however, and this is a bit of a caveat, unless you have already figured out the formula for VR or you come in with the right equipment and the right understanding of what the customer is looking for, and that changes a lot. So you have to constantly be up on that. You have to constantly be researching that it’s very hard to break in. It is very hard to break in.

It’s a little bit of a small club. The top, the top studios are the ones that have been there since ground zero and the producers that are working for them and the, the content providers that are coming in and providing the content have been around for a very long time, or have the ability to really, really understand what the customer wants, have the proper equipment and, or have developed a style, which I think is the case of me that is very unique and that people would like, because it translates very well to my medium.

Sure. Well, so there’s that, but where’s it going? I don’t have a timeline for you because I’m always surprised, but where I hope it’s going. And let’s, let’s say that where I hope is going is I hope what we’re currently seeing in the current iteration of VR is just the beginning. I hope that a lot of what we’re doing is going to assume it’s no longer going to be VR in the sense that we think of it. I think what people are really looking for when it comes to this type of BDM and I’m going to refer to it as XR, and this also bleeds over to NFTs and things as well is enhanced life experiences.

So whether that be sexual through porn, whether that be through being able to walk around Thailand, whether it be through a hologram or a holograph experience or AR or whatever, I think people are really looking for enhanced life experiences or the ability to do things in a way that makes them feel like they are actually participating in it without having to that’s where I see things going. I, I feel like the narrative version of VR that we’re currently doing with, you know, the three or four standard scenes and, you know, everything is just the tip of the iceberg.

And I hope I’m still around and kicking to see like a fully functional, like, not AI. I don’t want to use that word cause it like just brings up this connotation of Skynet and all this shit. But like, but like the ability to be more of an active participant in your poor that you’re watching. So for example, like I’m going to go throw a scene on and I looked down and instead of the stud Dick, I can say that.

I’m not sure how that

Speaker 1 (24m 11s): Yeah. You can stay say stunt, Dick stunt cock, fuck shit fucker. Come on, man. What do you think I’m going to have? What do you think I’m going to have a PG podcast? We’ve, we’ve talked before

Speaker 2 (24m 24s): A practice for the mainstream. So, you know, looked at it instead of a suck off. Right. Cause I don’t, I don’t personally associate with that. I’d love to be able to see either my body or a body that I would like to see, you know, and then have the performer who was in front of the camera, who is performing the actions on me to be able to interact with me or to, to, to, to, to interact with me. So if I say something that they respond accordingly, you know, and I know it’s going to take a minute.

I know this is going to take a while, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg where I think we should start to be headed. Where should we shouldn’t be start to be looking. And a lot of the content that I currently do is setting up for the very, very base ground floor level. That kind of idea.

Speaker 1 (25m 12s): Interesting. Yeah. Well, you know, AI is going to be part of it. So that’s, that’s this, or some something like AI, it might be called something else by then.

Speaker 2 (25m 21s): I’m just so hesitant to use the term because people automatically like link it to like, like all of a sudden robots are gonna take over the world and it’s not necessarily the case. So like when you use that term immediately, they’re like, no, I saw Terminator. I’m good. I don’t want that. So yeah,

Speaker 1 (25m 38s): I get it. I get it. Yeah. Well that’s yes, robots. We all fear them. So why do you think VR hasn’t become more of a mainstream fixture and adult than it has so far? What do you think’s really holding it back.

Speaker 2 (25m 57s): I think the headsets are holding it back at it. I don’t know if I said that last year. I still feel the same way. Oh yeah. It’s still as much as it’s cool. Like the new Oculus to quest to is, is a vast improvement over anything else I’ve ever used in my entire career. It’s still cumbersome. It’s still cumbersome. And when it can come down to, oh God, I can’t believe I’m about to say this. I didn’t think I’d ever see something like this. Go for it.

When it comes down to being able to like either drop something against your foreheads, that you can see something else or like, you know, wear a pair of glasses that don’t feel heavier than my Coke bottles that I have, which are pretty heavy, but like what, or, or contact lenses, something then, you know, then we’re talking, you know? And then also there’s the other factor of when you put it on, you’re completely lost in a world, which has, which is a cool part.

But a lot of people don’t want to do. They don’t want to get robbed before.

Speaker 1 (27m 1s): Yeah. They don’t want to be, they don’t want to be out of touch with what’s going on around them.

Speaker 2 (27m 7s): Yeah. So there’s that as well. So I think that headset has been the real limiting factor, but when you are able to enjoy it in a place that you feel safe to be able to let go, then those who are advocates of it can see the merits of it. You can see that this is where things are going and how amazing this is and, and the great benefits and positive things that could come out of it. But yeah, until the had sets become a lot easier to use, and it’s not easy to navigate in that thing either. Like I’m pretty savvy and even some days I’m like, what’s going on?

Speaker 1 (27m 40s): Yeah. I got the Oculus, I got the Oculus and I gotta admit I’ve hardly used it. I, I I’ve checked out a couple sites and things like that. I knew I needed one just to, just to be in touch. But God, I just

Speaker 2 (27m 55s): It’s the getting it on.

Speaker 1 (27m 56s): I was excited. Yeah. I wasn’t really excited about it, to be honest with you. Well, the glasses just glasses, that would be more like AR wouldn’t it. If I’m saying that if the correct and haven’t, I heard Apple’s working on some things like that.

Speaker 2 (28m 11s): I think everybody was working on and we remember Google last that was AR you know,

Speaker 1 (28m 16s): It was a

Speaker 2 (28m 16s): Joke. Right. But it’s when a layer of, of, of the thing that you’re seeing is later on top of the real world. So this one, would it be, I, it, doesn’t not necessarily, maybe they’re a pair of sunglasses that completely envelop your eyes and block them out and it could be the same. You would just have to be able to run a process or in such a small thing, which, I mean, we’re doing it with cell phones eventually I think would be able to do something like that.

Speaker 1 (28m 43s): I just have an app. Yeah. You just have an app and you, and you do it on your phone. That would be the likely thing. Right?

Speaker 2 (28m 49s): Well, that’s the thing is the problem with the Samsung was it was run on the phone and the phone is very limiting in itself as well. I don’t have the answer. I’m not a hardware manufacturer. I wish I was, I could do a lot of stuff, but that’s the one thing I don’t know. So I don’t have the full answer for you. I just know that from talking to people and from my own personal experience, that we’re the headset a little bit more, user-friendly a little less cumbersome. Then eliminating that barrier to entry would, it would allow for the VR industry, took off a little bit more because right now, you know, I have a pair of computer glasses that sit by my desk.

So every time I edit, I just whack them on. And I, there, sometimes I walk around and I forget that I even have them on. Whereas my headset is a thing where I’m going to go in the bed or go in the case of zip it, take it out and make sure it’s charged. There’s like all these steps. Right. But once I’m in there, I’m good. Once I’m in there, I’m good. It’s the getting, it’s like getting into the gym, what? You’re starting to work, but I know once you’re there, you’re, you’re glad you wouldn’t.

Speaker 1 (29m 57s): Yeah, no kidding. Well, I’ve been getting up at five. I’ve been getting up at five in the morning to walk the beach. So

Speaker 2 (30m 4s): Just started sort of back. Cause I was like, you know, things might be a 1:00 AM soon. We’ve let her get her button here. But, but those first couple of it’s been about a month or two since I’ve started. But that, those first couple days was trying to get the shoes on. It was just a lot of psychic. Yeah. It was

Speaker 1 (30m 21s): Trying to wake up for me one morning. I was like, I got such a good night’s sleep. I was like, oh fuck it. I’m going back to bed anyway. It’s like the beds calling you. They, I I’ve seen this in movies and cartoons and stuff before. And it’s so true. The bed’s calling Bruce, Bruce, come here. I’m so comfortable. Come come. You don’t want to go anywhere anyway. Okay. So

Speaker 2 (30m 50s): It’s the same thing with porn though. Like if you just want to get off really quick, just open your phone. Right. But then you’re going to have to put this whole thing on your head, like going to workout.

Speaker 1 (30m 59s): Yup. So, so being one of the first, what advice would you give to producers and companies who want to start filming in VR? I mean, you, can, you kind of, poo-pooed the idea a little while ago and said how hard it is, but if you, if someone was starting today, how can they be successful?

Speaker 2 (31m 19s): Number one, a lot of research, a lot of research, watch content, watch it on, have it, figure out what equipment you need and then get that equipment or get something better. I am a huge advocate of people, always trying to push to be better, always trying to innovate. You know, I’m not, poo-pooing it, it’s just, it’s just not easy. It’s not easy. And unfortunately, what I’ve noticed about this particular industry is it’s very easy to make money with sex.

If you’ve got even like a cell phone, you can, you can do it. You can make a decent living, you know? And I think that that kind of thinking comes into play with people coming into the VR space and they don’t realize how technically challenging it is and how it is a different medium in terms of you’re shooting straight POV. So for those who do do POV content shooting, you know what I’m talking about, it is very POV. The person watching is always an active participant in the scene.

And then it requires a very sophisticated use of equipment because you need to make this feel as real as possible. And if you’re a shooting in 10 80, that’s not gonna happen, right. You need a super high frame rate and the highest resolution that your headset can handle in order to make this feel as real as possible. And then because of that, we need to make sure your lighting is adequate. Your settings. Your model is great that he or she or them can, they can speak with confidence in, into a robot to, to camera.

So there’s all these little pieces, but if you were ready to do it, I mean, by all means, go for it. A lot of the, a lot of producers, myself included very open to chatting and sharing ideas and talking and helping each other, such a wonderful small community where we legitimately share ideas and struggles and frustrations. And we’re all using similar equipment. And we all talk to each other, which is very much not like it wasn’t the beginning in the beginning. It was like every man for himself. And now we’re on a chat together.

It’s great. And we’re all helping each other out. So I’d love that. And that’s something that I always wanted for this industry. So I think it’s going to make that sector of the industry even stronger. But so, you know, there’s that, but you know, just know that it is a heavy investment in terms of equipment and it is a heavy investment in terms of research and it is an ever changing rapidly changing segment of the industry. So for example, my regular camera, which is not a VR camera I’ve had around forever. The VR camera that I have is currently almost obsolete.

And I just literally got it like last year, not even a year ago, so

Speaker 1 (34m 8s): You can sell, you can sell it to one of the new people,

Speaker 2 (34m 12s): Right. But then that’s why they, then that’s why it doesn’t go. Well, I can’t do that. So that’s where we’re at. It’s, I’m not discouraging anybody. I’m just being realistic. You just gotta be ready to enter the race and realize that you’re going to need a new, new horse every three months when they come in. I know it’s the price of innovation. They really,

Speaker 1 (34m 37s): So a lot of sites have been heavily impacted greatly by the clip sites, the fan platforms, and with performers able to be their own distributor, bypassing the production houses and sites. Do you find that doing VR gives you an edge over companies shooting only traditional content.

Speaker 2 (34m 58s): 1000%, a thousand percent VR is, is very hard to shoot at home by yourself. And there is a demand for it. So there are performers who, you know what, I’m just okay. As I’m talking, I’m kind of getting my it’s a bit of a double-edged sword. They’ll tell you why VR is, is, is I will always have a job in production if I want to. If I continue in the, in the VR from which I will, but then they’re here. Here’s the rub is being a VR.

Performer is not easy. It’s a very demanding physically, mentally, too long. It’s a long day. It’s a hard, it’s a hard shoot. Even when it’s easy, it’s still much more difficult than the easiest regular shoot. And so we ha there are some performers who are just like, yeah, heck, heck no, we’re good. We’re out. We don’t want to do it. So it’s, it’s both. I will never be out of a job, but I’m also very limited in terms of my choice, like my choices and just wide open.

I mean, you could say that about any sector of production, but definitely there are some top performers who are just like, I’m no, I’m, I’m a no on VR. It’s too difficult, too challenging. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s intense, it’s intense. And it’s not an easy job. And it requires a very special performer to be able to, to use their leg strength for the entire shoot, command everything by themselves. And that yet still create a feeling of intimacy with the camp and just the stuff it’s not easy.

Speaker 1 (36m 37s): It’s hard.

Speaker 2 (36m 38s): Yeah. And some of my best, my best ladies that I’ve worked with are excellent actual actresses who have, you know, worked. So I’d love to see someone like, oh my God, I can’t believe her name is escaping me right now. The beautiful redhead from deeper. Fuck the contract. It’ll come to me a little bit, a little bit later. I can’t believe it’s my old age.

Speaker 1 (37m 4s): You’ll scream it in your you’ll scream it in your sleep. Don’t don’t talk to me about age. I’ve got maladies that are older than you. Anyway. I’ll let you, I’ll let you think about that for awhile. So

Speaker 2 (37m 23s): Maitland ward.

Speaker 1 (37m 24s): Oh yes, yes, yes. We’ve been in contact lately about an energy.

Speaker 2 (37m 29s): She would be a wonderful VR performer. I think she would be amazing. So that’s who I was saying.

Speaker 1 (37m 35s): I think she’d be good at a good interview too. I hope she, she gets back to me. So you’ve been in this business for a while. Like I have a, it seems a government bodies and corporations are coming after the adult industry more than they ever have. Now, how is that impacting your business and what do you see happening going forward

Speaker 2 (37m 58s): So far? It hasn’t really impacted me in terms of on the production side, but all the members side. So working with Samantha, for example, and then, you know, as I’m starting my relationship with Kelly, it definitely is impacting their, we have to be very, very careful with everything. I’ve always been extremely, super diligent with our paperwork and over practices when it was with polo girls and so on, but I even more so it’s very limiting and it’s very limiting, especially when it comes to the pails. And of course you’re always living under this sort of the shadow or this cloud of fear that at any time MasterCard or whoever will just close your account and then you’re Sol, right.

And it’s a very, very real thing. We’ve seen it happen many, many times. I mean, even with social media accounts, we’ve seen it happen numerous times. And so there is no security. The only thing to me that is the correct response to that, and perhaps the segues into the NFTs and crypto is to accept crypto payments. I’m a huge advocate of it. I’m a self accepted on behalf of the company in lieu of traditional payment for anything.

And it has been perhaps the most lucrative method of collecting money that I have encountered so far. I may be seeing a different tune a year from now, but as it stands right today, I mean, I’m realistic as well. Things change, you know, so, but as of today, I’ve accepted a few contracts in crypto and it has proven to be far more lucrative where I was paid out at an initial amount of money I properly called, you know, staked it staking and ended up with far more money than I originally started with a mere months later.

So it’s, it’s been a good move for me. And I really, really highly advise everybody in the adult industry. If you’re not familiar with it to take a look at it, it can be an extremely effective method of payment. And then if it’s handled correctly, once it’s in your possession, you could benefit from it.

Speaker 1 (40m 11s): It becomes a good investment. If it keeps going up, of course now,

Speaker 2 (40m 17s): Well there’s some, let me interrupt you there. It’s not, we don’t necessarily have to accept it when erythemia, you couldn’t get a staple coin, which is USD T or C, which doesn’t really fluctuate since it’s very one-to-one to the dollar, but, but the interest in the return on it, you can get far outweighs locking it up in a traditional bank. So that’s right. Exactly. So it’s, it’s extremely lucrative if you’re, if you’re once again, getting back to anything tech, you’ve got to constantly be reading constantly be curious and constantly researching.

Speaker 1 (40m 53s): No, I agree. So let’s roll into that. You you’re involved in an FTS, which is something that fascinates me. And I know very little about, I was having a conversation with a mutual friend yesterday about it. We talked about before we turned on the recorder. So tell me more about NFTs and how it’s going for you.

Speaker 2 (41m 18s): Well, I think people think of NFTs as some really huge, crazy, hard to understand anomaly that is floating around with other terms like doge and Bitcoin and, you know, whatever. And it really, it’s quite a very simple concept, you know, and I’m not going to get into it. I mean, you, you know what I mean? Do you do, do, do you know what a teaser or are you still not sure? I have a

Speaker 1 (41m 44s): Basic understanding of them? Yes.

Speaker 2 (41m 47s): Okay. Well, I mean the most basic level of the way I explain it to two performers, especially who come to me and say, what is the set of teeth? And it shouldn’t involved. Is it, it’s just basically a code that is put on to an asset that you create online. So it could be a piece of art. It could be a photo, it could be a piece of music. And what is it embedded in that determines what holding the asset will give you sort of trying to explain to people.

And I think that, I think there’s some people who came in and just like, you know, kind of Harold this thing as the second coming. And it’s cool. And it’s a really cool way. Not me. I’m not saying this, that I do this, but I have heard it’s a really great way to launder money For illegal purposes. I do not purchase anything like that, but I’ve heard, you know, rivers has it, that, that’s what it is, you know? And they come in and they just say, oh, this, this great thing. And then they can’t really explain it.

It’s just literally a way of tracking things. It’s a way of tracking the path of something as it changes hands and what those hands will receive when they get the thing that is the big box. That’s literally what it is. It’s very simple when you think about it. And because of that, I think that the, I think everyone should be involved in it, especially in our industry, in any entertainment industry.

Like you want royalties will, here’s how you do it. You know, you want to be able to control where your content goes and who sees it and, and how it operates and what they get when they see it, that this is the way to do it right now. It’s like, oh, there’s all these people hyping it up using big words. They don’t fully understand what it is. And I think that scares some people away. I think some people thought going into it, they were going to make like a billion dollars on the first sale, but let’s look at it from a like actual like, use, like, what’s the word I’m looking for.

It’s quite late for me, but let’s look at it from what you, from an actual, like, you know, functional every day application. It’s, it’s, it’s an amazing tool. It’s an amazing tool to be able to track where your stuff goes. And so, you know, we’re talking about all these, these girls and stuff, and these guys who were doing their only fans and doing all their own thing. I mean, imagine you continue to create your own content.

Speaker 1 (44m 33s): So, so what you’re doing, so what you’re telling me is you could track it for piracy,

Speaker 2 (44m 39s): The dragon for piracy. You could track it for, for residuals. Hmm. I mean, they’re kind of go hand in hand if someone’s probably going to content, you’re losing money, right. So no, but every time this content changes hands, you’ll get an you’ll. You can see that and you’ll be able to receive the proper payment for it. But this requires an amount of learning or becoming comfortable with something that they may not be comfortable with. And, and it also a form of trust. I remember the first time I ever tried to send some Bitcoin somewhere, I was scared.

Like, you know, it was a, it was a scary thing. Now I, I trade all day long, right? So it’s like, ain’t no thing anymore, but I wish less so and so called in at T producers would hype it up as much as they are and trying to make people believe that they’re going to become overnight millionaires because this is not true. I mean, like it’s the same way as an agent coming up to you and saying, baby, you’re going to be a star. You know, like, maybe you will, maybe you won’t, you know, maybe you will, maybe you won’t, but it’s the same thing with the entities, you know, it’s it’s, but there’s such amazing applications with it that I think those can go hand in hand, especially if in your, any form of creative content producing industry.

And it doesn’t even have to be adult, but God, why is not, why have, why has adult not adopted more? That kind of sector is just like, it absolutely like just floors me.

Speaker 1 (46m 11s): Sure. So, so I mean, what aspect of NFTs are you involved?

Speaker 2 (46m 18s): So I’m involved in pretty much all aspects, but majority of what I’ve been recruited to do or been requested mostly to do is to help make them help make them and help to make, to really, really high quality ones, but also a large part of why being asked for that is I have a good reputation. I have, I have my experience in VR and VR goes really nicely hand in hand with NFTs. You know, it’s the same kind of audience.

So the audience is well-versed. And so the content that we make does a little bit better, but also too, I’m a huge believer in the I’m a huge advocate in terms of the, the, the, the functionality of it, the, the use behind it, the reason for using it. And I actively live as I speak. So, you know, I am heavily involved in it on a personal side and yeah, I see the value of it.

Of course, there are things that need to be fixed with it. It’s not perfect Ethereum, while I’m also an Ethereum fan also makes it challenging, so expensive you’re using, you know, that’s a whole, there’s a whole nother hour conversation to get that, but, but I think the idea behind it and the beginnings of it, and once again, all of these things that we’ve discussed tonight, I feel like everything is just the beginning of what’s going to be this amazing way of using things later in the future, where we go, where did it start?

Oh yeah. You know, like that, that’s how it started. That was the, that was the beginning. And I feel like we’re really, really in the beginning. And I feel that this pandemic, especially the time that we had locked down and all of these things that came up during it, and I’m talking about the innovative stuff, the stuff tech wise has been very interesting to me. I feel like it’s, we’re, we’re coming into sort of a new era of a, a new tech revolution. If you will live in an industrial one.

And I’m very excited to see where things go and I hope more people will take anyone who’s listening to this and has always been interested in the applications of it, really start looking at it. It is a political to everything that everybody in this industry does. For some people, it might be a negative thing to take money away from them. Let’s be honest, but you know, but what better way to arm yourself for that inevitable, inevitable reality than to read up and learn is when she,

Speaker 1 (49m 4s): You convinced me. So you’re also diversifying heavily into crypto, including staking and mining it. I don’t even know what staking is. You can explain. What’s your take on the current crypto market. Do you see it shooting the moon? Like so many others? Do I just read so much BS? W what’s your take?

Speaker 2 (49m 30s): Well, my take is, I, I don’t, I mean, I hold a few of the long-term molds. I do have some points that I’m holding for the long-term just to see what whole gold or silver I do hold that. I do believe that we have not seen the bottom of things. And the reason why I believe that is because I really believe that the what’s the term when it’s just like average Joe’s coming in and investing, but there’s a specific, Yeah, but there’s a specific term. Oh, I think they’re called like, like commerce investors.

But anyway,

Speaker 1 (50m 3s): I don’t know,

Speaker 2 (50m 5s): The, every man, the, every man who was not really into finance and stuff, like once again, during the pandemic, they had a lot of time on their hands. They started to get involved in it, retail investors. That’s what it is. That’s the thing. And so I honestly believe that what we’re seeing is not the bottom, or I don’t think things are going to tank. Like everybody says, there are definitely shit coins that come in and out into play.

Speaker 1 (50m 29s): I put a bunch of money into one of those actually.

Speaker 2 (50m 32s): So, you know, I mean, I have, I have a fun wallet that has some Keanu coin in it, you know, go Keanu that I bought for fun, spend all of $15 on it, you know? Like, so I’m not, I have, I have some, but I’ve been holding it for a long time now. Here’s, here’s my quick dose story, like really fast. So I actually have been holding it for years and then it, I made something like I’ve made. So I was like holding like, like $20 for the judge.

Right. And then it made something like five grand. I think it was like five or six grand. And I got so excited and they’re cashed out, oh boy, did I miss the boat on that? Cause they went way the fuck off.

Speaker 1 (51m 17s): That’s my story on Bitcoin.

Speaker 2 (51m 21s): I still hold a little bit. I’ve got a little bit and it’s just tucked away. And I learned my lesson just to chill. And so I have a dedicated fund dabbling one. I mean, I waste money on other bullshit, you know, like I’m like, what’s 15 bucks here and there. So I got that stuck to me. I won’t touch it until it reaches the millions and you know, just, just a pipe dream and you hope it happens and it might happen. Cause sometimes shit happens to people in good ways. But I’m going back to the original thing we’re talking about where I use big, sorry, not big coin where I use crypto is staking it and saving it, locking it

Speaker 1 (51m 57s): Is saving.

Speaker 2 (51m 59s): Staking is okay. Oh, I am not. I do not have the vocabulary to condense this into a very short explanation. Right. So it is like saving. It is like saving, but different coins require different protocols in order to prove that they work. I’m not using the right terminology for it. And so they offer rewards if you hold onto your coins various. Yes. So you get paid out in what feels like interests or what is often coined as the term rewards.

And so for example, with my holding of USD tea, which is like the U S coin, when I stake my USDA tea, I get back rewards, which are equivalent to what would feel like if I was putting my money in a bank and I was getting interest. However, the interest is far more far greater than what I would get in any traditional bank. And on top of that, it’s, it’s, it is the word compounded. So what I’m looking for. So for example, if I’m holding a hundred S CT and I make two USD T that’s a huge high percentage, but whatever let’s say, I make two USD T for holding it that day.

Well then the next day I’ll make the percentage on a hundred and so on and so forth. And it just like all of a sudden six months later, you’re like, whoa, I guess, I guess Quinn’s. But then there’s also the risk factor that you’re taking to be able to even be able to cash anything else. So I’m very, I stick with the tried and true stuff. I do. Like I said, have my fun wallet where I have a couple shit quiz in there for fun and still weighed. But, but yeah, I have my, I have my long-term holdings and, and my stuff I’m actively actively staking and saving and I take my profits and I do it smart and I don’t don’t mess.

And I don’t just Willy nilly buy something just cause some influencer told ManTech talk to, but I do see the real value in this and in so much to, you know, I accepted payment for a contract and the payment landed within 30 seconds after we agree. It’s never happened to me before.

Speaker 1 (54m 16s): Nice. That’s nice. I read this article on medium. If you don’t subscribe to it, I recommend that it’s really good. And so many things hyping coins though, because you know that people can, I can write an article on medium. You can write an article on medium. And, but this one was fantastic. This guy, how I made a hundred million dollars in one year investing in crypto and the whole thing from start to finish was total tongue in cheek.

It was all bullshit. And I I’ll, I’ll see if I can find it and because you you’d get a kick out of it and I’m reading it and it’s, it’s like, oh yeah, okay. And then the guy seemed believable until the end. He tells you he’s been lying to you the whole time. So it was fantastic. It was just fantastic. So,

Speaker 2 (55m 6s): But I mean like it’s the same thing. Like I was saying earlier with that at T is like, there’s so many people that have an exceptional experience or story with it and then that just gets blown. And then the minute that you don’t have a similar experience, all this is shit, you know? And then,

Speaker 1 (55m 20s): Oh yeah, but I mean, this guy, this guy, wasn’t this guy wasn’t talking down crypto. He was just, it was kind of a hole. It was a spoof on all these people that write all these articles, talking about how wonderful this coin is going to be. And, and, and he’s like listened to every tick talk person and, and a YouTube video. And, oh man, it was funny. It was, it was really, really funny. And he was talking about some of the people he gets his advice from and he, he mentioned some of these people randomly, it was hilarious.

The whole thing is, as it goes on, you’re like, huh,

Speaker 2 (56m 1s): I have a hard time listening to somebody who is like 19 years old in, in a dark room with a ring light. Like I have a real hard time, you know, no offense. There’s some geniuses out there that are like, wait, no way more than me. And I’ve got some nephews who just turned 20. Those guys know so much about things that I don’t know. But I inside say something when it comes to my money, I’m, I’m going to read the company like words, Listing the stocks, right? You’re not going to listen to a kid.

You’re going to read what’s up with the company what’s going on? What are they doing? Have they performed in the past? You know, things like that make some educated guesses, but it requires an amount of effort that I think a lot of people don’t want to do.

Speaker 1 (56m 43s): It makes a lot more sense now doesn’t it? Well, Anna always, always delightful, like to thank you for being our guest. Once again, on adult side, broker tuck, and I’m looking forward to part three

Speaker 2 (56m 59s): Next year,

Speaker 1 (57m 0s): Hey, why not? My broker tip today as part seven of how to buy an adult website last week, we talked about the agreement and escrow. So you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owners participation will be after the sale. You’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things.

If you don’t have experience in these matters, you may want to consider our general consulting from adult business consulting. You can get more information on what this company does@adultbusinessconsulting.com. We help website owners, project manage and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting, payments, production scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help.

Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting company to help evaluate all of these items and everything else, the site is spending money on and using to operate the website, make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better. Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service. Many times the server is just too slow.

If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website next week. We’ll talk about how to sell a website and next week we’ll be speaking with Mike Pinto of Smutyfy. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Anna Lee. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Gino from Branditscan.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website at adult-site-broker-dot-com.
We’ve added some enhancements to the site, such as FAQs, and a complete new platform.
The look and feel of the new site are nice and up to date. The new site also has links to our marketplace and affiliate program.

And don’t forget ASB Marketplace, the first platform where you can buy and sell adult sites and domains for FREE! ASB Marketplace allows buyers and sellers the chance to come together on properties that are valued below our company’s minimum of 50,000 dollars. Don’t pay for other marketplaces when ASB Marketplace gives you this service for free. Visit ASB-Marketplace-dot-com and sign up as a seller or as a buyer today.

And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. A portfolio of eight Amazon FBA adult beauty stores. These brands have enjoyed steady growth over their eight years in business with many products, commanding a dominant market share in their vertical with combined revenues of $3.4 million in 2021, and an impressive 15,000 customer reviews setting itself apart with its distinctive product style and branding the businesses winning product formula and launch strategy has been multiplied across different customer types to greatly increase market share and expand the business over time.

The brands now number over 80 listings, including bundles, and they include lightening creams, lubricants, sexual aides, and other personal care items for adult intimacy. The products which have formulas exclusive to the owner have proven hugely profitable over time with the business enjoying massive gross margins of almost 40% with absolutely no advertising spend outside of Amazon included are standard operating procedures for all activities related to Amazon selling, meaning the buyer is getting the intellectual property rights.

They would not be able to find elsewhere. The business has massive growth opportunities, especially by marketing outside of Amazon in the e-commerce and brick and mortar spaces. As the current owners have not done much to promote the websites and have not sought a retail distributor, the business can be run from anywhere and it can be run by an outsourced firm at a very low operating cost. The business also enjoys strong diversification of revenues across its major product lines, brands, and keywords, giving it stable growth over time.

The businesses run in a highly effective hands-off way with day-to-day operations managed by a team of outsourced personnel with the owner working only about 30 hours per week. The reason for the sale is that the owners have been in the category for a long time, and now wish to turn attention to newer verticals. They’ve already moved into this incredible company is available for only $5 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult say broker talk is Gino’s Seretta of branded scan Chino.

Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Oh,

Speaker 2 (4m 7s): No problem. Nice to meet you, Bruce. And I’m looking forward to, to spend some time answering some questions.

Speaker 1 (4m 12s): Me too. Now Gina was the founder and CEO of brand protection service branded scan after years as co-founder and CTO of many vids. Gino has a continued passion for startups with his background in development and the tech spare, his newest venture looks to reinvent the wheel by providing innovative tools to empower content creators. Branded scan is a brand and content protection service that aims to empower content creators to protect their brand. And only $45 a month.

Creators can receive daily scans, remove stolen content, social media, catfishes, and clean up their Google results. Gino, you know, it’s, it’s kind of interesting that this is really designed more for content creators. I kind of looked around at some of your competitors and they seem to be going for the large platforms. Why did you decide to do that?

Speaker 2 (5m 9s): Well, I guess, you know, in the last, I would say six years of experience, you know, back at many bids, I realized that content creators really know what’s best for their brand what’s best for even sometimes the industry itself and being close to that, I realized that I think one big thing that was lacking with a well at the time was clip sites was exactly that, you know, having content creators really drive a feature of a platform and, you know, drive a little bit, I would say the community itself and have more power to, to change that to the platforms that they were on.

So I felt that, and even in the brand sphere, the Brent production sphere, that was exactly what was happening. You’d have companies coming in building products without really knowing what the content creators really need. And I think that’s was my power. I guess my strength coming into this with this new products is really listening to the content creators. I know, you know, a lot of them that joined even early on my, my, my platform, Brenda scan, they trusted my vision of how to protect their brand.

And that with that, I was able to talk to them closely, get their feedback on, on features, what they need, what they want and that’s how Brenda scams created. Sure.

Speaker 1 (6m 34s): Yeah. Why don’t you talk about what you did prior to branded scan?

Speaker 2 (6m 39s): I basically, I founded a co-founded with Bella French and said many bits.com. So this was created by us three, ignore good friends, start up this project, seeing that there was a big need for, you know, some, a really, really good clips site debt empowers content creators. So that’s something that I built. I took care of all the technical side. So being a web developer by nature, graphic designer as well, and also kind of like a web architects, I built from the ground up with the technology, the front end, the infrastructure, and also the development cycle and all that stuff.

So I really took care of the technology sphere, the payments sphere, the payout sphere.

Speaker 1 (7m 27s): Okay. Now, to make it simple, how would your parents describe what you do?

Speaker 2 (7m 33s): I guess a, you know, a guy who just passionate about coding. I think since I was a late teenager, I was a late bloomer as a coder. I didn’t really code when I was younger, but you know, in my teens late teens, I started coding and discovered that. But I guess you would say that as passionate about coding websites and also that loves to be around people, very social guy, as a little bit of a rare breed to find a developer, a 10 guy, that’s also very social. So That’s kinda my strength as a, as a business owner is that I can really relate to developers.

I can speak them, but I can also be a relationship manager. I really develop relationships with other businesses and other people externally.

Speaker 1 (8m 16s): Yeah. Developers. Aren’t usually people that you find at cocktail parties. It’s like, it’s like just getting them to talk is difficult. Normally

Speaker 2 (8m 29s): It’s very true. It’s very true, but you know, they they’re in their bubble and they, they love what they do. And at the end of the day, I think it’s just not everybody is social and that that’s fine, but I learned how to be social. I guess I was really always a people guy. And that helped me a lot in my career to, to really build a relationship with a lot of other companies, competitors, et cetera, and really open doors.

Speaker 1 (8m 53s): It’s quite an accomplishment actually. Well, thank you. So what’s been the favorite job you’ve ever held.

Speaker 2 (9m 1s): Obviously I would have to be when, you know, my, my, just my previous one coming out of it. So being a developer and a CTO at the same time, I think that was something that was really, really fun to do. I mean, you’re developing application from scratch. You know, you’re building the architecture, the feature set the look and feel of the product. It was very liberating that you can build everything yourself, launch it, update it, and then see the impact right away to the community feedback of the community.

And that was something that was really fun. And now building my new venture as a CEO, my, my co-founder as well, he’s the CTO now. So I can offset that responsibility to, to my co-founder, who was amazing, a genius, you know, developer and technology brain and together, I’m kind of taking care of more now of the operations, the financial part D you know, relationship building the vision of the company, you know, recruitment’s the payroll accounting, like all that other stuff that I’ve learned as well in my previous venture, I’m going to take this side.

So I would say definitely my favorite part was the development. I mean, the development and CTO aspects was a lot of fun. That was really my main passion at the time, for sure.

Speaker 1 (10m 16s): The developer though, how hard is it to farm the development out to anyone else

Speaker 2 (10m 24s): You would say in the sense where like, you know, offsetting tasks to other people, is that

Speaker 1 (10m 30s): Yeah, because you said that your co-founder is, is doing the, is the CTO and is doing the, the development there as a developer yourself, how hard is it to have?

Speaker 2 (10m 42s): Well, you know, at the end of the day, like you got to trust people that you work with, right? For me, I’m a big, big advocate of empowerment. So if you hire people, you partner with people, empowering them is the best way. If you can give them those tasks, then you should be working with that person to begin with. Right. So for me, it’s all about trust and I trust that they’re, they can do the right thing and they can code the right way. And all, obviously there’s mentorship too. I’ve had experience where I come in and I can say, you know, my opinion, how things should maybe be in a very big website that scalability and this and that.

And, but at 10 that day, it’s really a mixture of having someone that can maybe even do it better than you. I mean, you know, he’s was 15 years younger than me, so he has a lot more, you know, hunger, hunger to, to, to code and, and do things. And I could see he has new technologies in his back pocket, which I have a little more older technology. So it’s kind of like a good mix. So you’ve got to always surround yourself with good people, sometimes even better people, you know,

Speaker 1 (11m 41s): That’s really cool. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it tells a bit about you that you’re able to accept that.

Speaker 2 (11m 49s): Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, I have, I have, I love working with developers and for me, there’s, there’s, you know, I, I’m never the smartest person in the room. I might know a lot of things, but there’s always going to be someone smarter and you always have to let that people, those people talk and that’s how you can build a business. I can build a great team and really make people feel like they’re contributing to a product, you know?

Speaker 1 (12m 12s): Yeah. You talked about building something from scratch with your own hands and seeing it through how cool, how cool

Speaker 2 (12m 20s): It’s, it’s the best feeling for sure. I mean, I’ve, I’ve built a lot of products in my past. I would say maybe dozens of, of, of products and websites. And this was the first one in the adult at the time with M B however, you know, some were successful, some failed, but overall they’ve all been fun. So whether they made money and got big or, you know, had to shut it down because it wasn’t, it didn’t stick. It didn’t matter. I’ve learned things throughout those years and I’ve always found that fun, honestly.

So I would say like, definitely it’s the coolest feeling to build a product from the ground up and actually see it thrive. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13m 1s): Yeah. I bet it is. As someone who’s, who’s a total tech dummy, I’m going to have to take your word for that. You could, you could, you could talk techies all day and I’d be like, huh, what, so what’s your day to day schedule look like as branded scan CEO?

Speaker 2 (13m 20s): Yeah, so basically my, my day-to-day would be really hopping in and out of meetings. I would say I do a lot of the accounting part, like I was saying as well. I do a lot of relationships and I meet with other businesses trying to see if there’s any kind of synergies that happen as well. You know, we, I, I kind of talk with the team every week, every two weeks, we really see the vision of what we’re going to be doing, kind of building the next, the next feature sets. And where are we headed also do presentations on how we’re doing currently showing you the numbers and great transparent company.

So I like to show, you know, sales and numbers and where we’re going, what happened last month, what’s happening this month, really. So people understand and are motivated. And even if there’s anything that’s happening, that’s maybe not good for the growth, but we can catch it early. So it’s really just, you know, taking care of the team, taking care to scaling the team, scaling the business, making sure it’s healthy financially, you know, it’s paying its taxes, the accounting is up to date, all these things. So that’s kind of now my role and also, you know, I, I do take some, some meetings for development and for security, especially cause you know, I’m a really big advocate for security.

And that’s one thing that I thought at MD was make sure the data to see that it was secure. The site was secure, you know, our, our, our cyclist hack proof, like those are my specialties as well. And my co-founder, he’s very, very strong with that too. So, you know, we’re always talking about security, how we can improve it, how it can make sure it’s good and even, you know, help other people with their security on their platforms,

Speaker 1 (14m 55s): Really hack proof. Now, no,

Speaker 2 (14m 59s): You can definitely put a lot of fail safes in front. So there are methods to do it and do it right. And if ever there are, there’s always going to be able to ability happening, but you need to make sure you’re aware of it and you have, you know, kind of safety nets or monitoring that if something is about to happen, you know about it and you can stop it. So you might not be fully hack proof, but you can definitely have, I would say like webs and, and layers that can, they can detect someone actually trying to do something to stop it.

Speaker 1 (15m 32s): Yeah. It’s like, I mean, just, just today, I got another email about a major hack with a, I won’t mention any names with a, with a domain registrar and I mean it, and these are tight. These are big people that are getting hacked. I, I mean, I just wonder if there’s any stop, any, any end to it.

Speaker 2 (15m 55s): If you really think about it, the bigger you are, the more susceptible you are for hacking because I, Tim today, your employees and your, your, your third parties that you hired to work on your product and all these, those are your, those are your point of failures.

Speaker 1 (16m 11s): So those are your weak points, right? Because somebody will like, we’ll like click on a, on a, on an attachment and boom,

Speaker 2 (16m 19s): Definitely there’s a lot more risk and a lot more potential hack. The larger company, you are a hundred percent as you’re smaller. If you do the right things, your point of views are very minimal. You know, sometimes maybe you’re small and you don’t, you scale too fast and you don’t have money. You don’t have the knowledge to protect. And that’s also a problem that happens a lot often. Right? Right. So it’s finding that balance to scale, but always stay secure. And obviously it takes more time to develop a product just to secure the right way. Some people don’t invest their time, but we’ve, I’ve always also had that, that, that, that need to always keep things secure because at the end of the day, that’s, it’s, it’s a death sentence.

It’s it’s if your company gets, gets hacked and gets their information leaked, I mean, not only it’s bad for the company, but it’s the worst thing that can happen to your customers. Yup.

Speaker 1 (17m 7s): Yeah, absolutely all kinds of a bad results for sure. You were, you were talking about your duties with branded scan. How hard was it as a tech guy to learn all that?

Speaker 2 (17m 22s): Well, I mean, it’s funny thing is I, I learned that over time. So it’s, it’s not something that I really went to school for. I mean, I, I don’t, my background is I studied in graphic design and front end, HTML and CSS. And I eventually over time as you know, Friday, Saturday nights until 5:00 AM, you know, your code projects, you work on that for years and years, and it you’d basically self teach yourself how to code develop everything’s online. Now, you know, people don’t even really have to go to university to attempt to be an engineer.

You can literally everything online. And I’m a perfect example of a lot of my stuff, all my knowledge, a lot of it I’ve learned online myself through trial and error, you know, forums. There’s so many things out there so much knowledge out there that you can, you can teach yourself. So honestly it really just takes passion if you’re passionate about, about coding. And like, I was, well, you can literally learn how to code and make a successful career out of it without even attending university.

Speaker 1 (18m 22s): Yeah. Well, there’s no two ways about it. Like, like a lot of other business models. I think the education business model has changed a lot and in the very near future, we’ll change a lot more.

Speaker 2 (18m 36s): Oh yeah, definitely. I think currently the school system, you know, you know, the whole educational system is, is wrong. It’s, it’s old, it’s not meant for the current students. Current student has less attention has access to all the information. Online is very digital schools need to reflect that. And currently they’re not, they’re still using up the old books and an old way of doing homework and eventually it’s going to shift, but it’s definitely not, not there yet.

Speaker 1 (19m 5s): And then later I think, I think the pandemic and, you know, virtual learning is going to make it shift a lot faster, a hundred

Speaker 2 (19m 13s): Percent.

Speaker 1 (19m 14s): So why would you create another company after you successfully founded an exited? Another one?

Speaker 2 (19m 22s): That’s a good question. I mean, personally, I’m an entrepreneur. I’ve always built stuff. Even as having a regular job, working nine to five as a developer early in my career on the side at night, I would build company, I would build a project I’ll try and find a way to do so. I was always, I was like building products, building ideas. I love brainstorming. I always love having new ideas with, you know, oh, we should do this or we should do that. It’d be great. We should launch that’s. And that, that’s what I like doing. And after MV, you know, after I transitioned away from that last year, I have that hunger to still create product.

And I always had this idea, you know, with my, with my friend, we wanted to launch this because we knew that we could launch something great and there was a need for it. And it’s just exciting. I mean, the, the beginning of fruition of creating something and seeing it grow is, is, is so rewarding. And it’s the funnest thing to do. And it’s it’s I think if, if there wasn’t, if I guess developing was not my passion, my first passion, it would be creating products. That’s so much fun.

Speaker 1 (20m 25s): Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. I feel the same way about, about adult site broker. It it’s been a blast and it keeps getting better now.

Speaker 2 (20m 38s): So rewarding, so much fun.

Speaker 1 (20m 40s): Yeah. No, I agree with you. Do you still do any work for many visits?

Speaker 2 (20m 44s): Nope. None at all. So I think on the contrary, maybe some people might believe in some interviews that you’ve done recently at, not at all. I mean, I’ve completely transitioned away. I don’t even have any kind of affiliation in the business, nothing. So I’m completely non-involved. But my previous previous project,

Speaker 1 (21m 5s): So I don’t know, I didn’t hear anything, but I, I thought I asked, what did your experience at many vids teach you that you now apply to branded school

Speaker 2 (21m 16s): So much? I mean, I’ve learned so much building that business from, you know, how, how to scale a business from just three people to 150 people. For example, you know, an application from scratch, serving, serving tens of thousands of content creators, not many, not many sites have done this, let alone in the adult, even in say for workspace. I mean, to, to steal a business that large is a very rare and you’ll learn a lot. So I would say maybe securing, like people’s private information, but also create a product that, that the community needs.

And you create a product, keep improving it, keep tweaking it to make it grow and grow. So I think I end, they, all these things were applied right off the bat that Brendan scan and this time I had the experience, as opposed to with envy at the beginning, I didn’t have it. So I had to learn. It took longer, but this time around, no, I know how to build a business and I know how to scale a product well. And so it caters to people the way they want it, you know?

Speaker 1 (22m 22s): So how does branded scan differ from other DMCs or take down services?

Speaker 2 (22m 29s): Well, I think you spoke about, you touched on it a little bit earlier, but I think is the main fact that we know how to cater to content creators and influencers. You know, we listen to their needs, we develop improve things right away with their feedback. You know, we have a form that we share things in advance, as we’re developing it, getting their feedback back and forth. You know, we have a focus group that we show them our product. We show them our idea what we, and then we tweak it. And sometimes our idea was not what we thought it would be. And that’s great because it without develop something you’re launching, there’ll be cares about it.

Well, that’s bad, you know? So that’s something that we definitely are, I’m sure very different from what’s happening right now, but we’re also hungry for a change. You know, we’re hungry for innovation, just like envy. At the time we came into a space which had dinosaurs people that had little creativity that been around for 20 years in the space, you know, and us coming in, we right away created waves and we created change. And I think with MV at the time we raised the bar and all of a sudden you started seeing people say, oh, that’s what a content site should be a clip site.

Shouldn’t be, and I’m doing the exact same thing with Brandon skin. And that’s what I want to do. I want to bring the bar hiding up. He was like, that’s what a bred protection service should be. That’s how much it should cost. And that’s what we’re pretty much doing

Speaker 1 (23m 47s): Different. Well, so do you know the main difference then is that you guys emphasize working with content creators, right.

Speaker 2 (23m 55s): Exactly. Exactly. I think that, that adds a lot of innovation and, you know, they’re very creative people. They, there are their own business at themselves. I mean, they are all also entrepreneurs, so they understand how to build a product. So that’s, it’s, it’s very powerful to partner with content creators and build a product with them.

Speaker 1 (24m 17s): Very good. And I’m sure you get some very valuable feedback as you talked about earlier

Speaker 2 (24m 22s): A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I mean, even showing features beforehand and getting feedback after we launch it. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s gold, it’s gold to really close to your, to your, to your content, creators like that and your, your customers. Sure.

Speaker 1 (24m 37s): And really, it seems like the next natural step for you since you worked so closely with content creators, that many of us. Exactly,

Speaker 2 (24m 45s): Exactly. And, you know, I built a, a good, good name, good trust where the name with a lot of the, the top content creators. And sometimes he would reach out to me directly when that issues and things like that. So I think building this product, I really had already that trust and they knew it would be something, something good. So that really helped me also at the beginning, for sure.

Speaker 1 (25m 8s): Fabulous. Now branded scan is sponsoring large events, such as the why not cam awards and the XPS shows now, what do you hope to gain from supporting these events?

Speaker 2 (25m 19s): I think there’s a few things. I mean, one of the, one of the first things would be to really get the brand out as fast as possible. So people see it to reach more people. I mean, they did, they have a great, great reach and a great community. So that really got her in, came out very early. Also, you know, not everyone can just sponsor these events. They, they really make sure your product is good. They make sure you have a good name that was behind the product before you even allow to sponsor these events. So it kinda gives you credibility right out of the gate. That’s what happened with us when we started in last January, 2001, and we, we sponsor right away X because they have a great community, a great health, and it really helped us really build early on our, our customer base.

For sure.

Speaker 1 (26m 2s): Now what’s a common myth or misconception about your field of expertise.

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): I guess I would go more in the adult side. Cause I guess as a developer, I mean, there’s not really many myths as opposed to being non-social, which I’m not really, I would say more in the adult, you know, like running, working in MP and building MV was really something like, well, you were in the adult. Well the, in their mind they picture, you know, naked people running in the hallways, you know, all sorts of things. When he was really just a tech firm, It was nothing special about it.

It was, it was a tech firm, you know? And I think that’s one of the biggest myths of the adult is what the picture your office looks like, how does it work? You know, do you have like naked video shoots happening in the cafeteria is no. You know, and that would get that comment all the time. And even from employees that we wouldn’t hire on interviews, that would be their question like, oh, okay. And they didn’t expect us to be in that field because you know, it looked like a tech firm. So it was very surprising to them when they showed up.

Speaker 1 (27m 12s): I think if they walked through either your office or through mine gigs, office or gamma, it’s like, oh, it’s an office. Exactly. There’s people at their computers working. Wow. What a surprise. So in your opinion, what’s the most important personality traits someone would need to be successful in your job?

Speaker 2 (27m 36s): Well, passion for sure is one of the biggest things. You know, you want to be passionate, you want to be creative. You want to be innovative. I think those are all things that in tech really makes you stand out from the crowd. A lot of people that, you know, go in and build products for the money or just build it because they copy another product and you’re not going to have any passionate creativity or innovation that way. You’re just, oh, these guys are doing well. Let me just copy the same thing, But you’ll never be as good.

And you’ll always be behind because the co the company you’re copying that they’re innovating, they’re being creative and you’re just falling behind all the time trying to catch up by coughing. So I think passion, creativity, innovation are really the three key things that you need to build a successful business and product, I think.

Speaker 1 (28m 24s): Yeah. And there’s in the adult space, especially, there’s so much copycatting. And if you go back to your last place, oh God, you wouldn’t believe. And we have a general consulting company to you. Wouldn’t believe how many people contact me and say, oh, I want to build something like only fans, or I want to build something like, like many vids. And of course, none of them have any money or, or any expertise, but it’s like, oh God, you know, and it, yeah, it’s great.

Except because they go on, that’s where the money is. And it was that way with cams for a long time. But I agree with you. They don’t have the passion for it. If they don’t have unique ideas, they’re just going to be one of many,

Speaker 2 (29m 13s): Exactly. Because if you’re building a product to make money, that’s your goal. You’re never going to be successful. Money will come later. You want to build something that you’re passionate, that has a goal. It’s really truly making a difference. That way your creativity and you, you’re going to innovate that field. You get it through tech, but you’re going to be creative. And to find new ways to help people in this night, eventually you’ll stand out and eventually you will get, again, eventually you will make money, but making money is only a consequence. It can’t be your, your goal.

And that’s, and those that go that route, then you’re never going to succeed. Really.

Speaker 1 (29m 47s): You know, it’s interesting. You mentioned that. And I never thought about it before, but everything I’ve done, especially in the adult space has been because I saw a need and it was something I thought I could help people with started out with my marketing firm, because I could tell, I went to a few shows. I was, I had a couple of websites. I went to a few shows. I sit, nobody knows anything about marketing. Okay. I can help with marketing the general consulting, the same way people, startups, and especially, and mainstream companies needed help getting started.

And the website broker and came about, because I had a marketing client that said, Hey, I want to sell my websites. I thought about it and said, oh, I don’t think anybody’s doing that. And after I did the deal for them, which was surprisingly easy for me, cause I had the contacts. I said, oh, I think I got a company here. So I’ve done the same thing. And I’m passionate about everything I do though. That’s that’s just me.

Speaker 2 (30m 54s): Well, that’s it finding a need is, is definitely powerful for sure. You need to find that need, that, that people are looking for and you mix it with a passion. I mean, if it’s a need that you have zero passion about, I mean, yeah, I don’t, I don’t build furniture if they’re just, you know, building a sofas and not going to do it. It’s not my passion. No. However, sites that is my passion. It’s found yours as well. And that’s how you can really succeed to put into 12 hours a day. Sometimes at the beginning, not paid. Right. You need to be passionate about what that type of time, you know?

Speaker 1 (31m 24s): Yeah. It’s like my wife with cactuses, don’t ask, we got, we got a backyard full of cactuses now because she’s passionate about growing cactuses in Thailand of all places. Anyway, what’s one thing about your field of expertise that almost no one agrees with you about,

Speaker 2 (31m 43s): I guess he would be building relationship with your competitors, with other companies in your space. Like I’m a, I’m a huge relationship guy. And I find that, you know, sometimes maybe it happens more in the adult more, but people, yeah. Sometimes with competitors, they don’t like to socialize and I’ve socialized with a lot because I guess at the end of the day, I’m maybe an approachable guy. So I really made a lot of contacts in the space, even as a competitor itself.

So for me, I guess it would be that is really known, be friends, which competitor I attended a day. You’re all, we’re all healed here to help the community make gift services that helps them. And if we make money, that means they’re doing well as well. So we’re all in it for the same reason. So there’s no real point to, to not know, to not say good things and not hanging out and have a beer. You know, that’s something that I don’t like seeing is, is kind of people that don’t get along just because there’s potential, same clients, you know?

And that’s something that I guess not many people agree on, but when they do, they realize they realize how powerful it is, the networking aspect of things.

Speaker 1 (32m 58s): There’s, there’s always going to be a time for synergy where you can both make money.

Speaker 2 (33m 5s): Yeah, of course, of course there’s always opportunities. You never know. This project can lead to another project that you potentially do the same, you know, we have a deal with, and you partner with that old competitor. So there’s always new doors that open. And at the end of the day, you know, we sh we should all stay safe, lies and socialize. And I think we’re all in it to help people, you know,

Speaker 1 (33m 24s): I can’t agree more. So tell me about an influential person that impacts your work.

Speaker 2 (33m 30s): Yeah. There’s a lot of people. I mean, around me that I know personally that impact me, that I won’t bring them up there to radio, but when I could say maybe as a public figure, someone that I really admire their, their personality. And I would say, can we use as a good example? You know, Canada Reeves is a very successful guy. People like him very down to earth, no matter how much money he has, you know, he’ll help the next person on his last very, I would say very, forget the word exactly to say it, but it’s someone that you would like to stay become.

If you do become big and successful, you want to always stay around and still humble. There you go. That’s the term, you know, that’s, you always gotta, gotta stay true to yourself and be nice to people. And kind of, he was a great guy. I admire him as a person. So, but yeah, I’m not going to pick like developers and you know, the CEO of apple cause he’s cool. And you know, the CEO of Tesla is like, yeah, I mean, they did great things, but him, they, we can all do our own paths without falling into someone else’s shadow.

For me, what’s most important is people that can balance success with family and friends. And at the end of the day, that’s what it is. And there was a quote actually from the, from one of the, the, the, the owners of Google that said life is like juggling five balls in the air where one is glass and the other four, sorry, one is rubber and have the format of the glass. Rubber is your work. You know, if it falls down, something happened, it’ll bounce back up. There’s always going to be another opportunity to make money.

But the rest, you know, you have family, you got health, you got friendships. Like those are things that are made out of glass. And if you let them drop too often, they break they crack. And that was a great, great speech that he did recently, which is exactly that. I mean, life’s about balance and you know, you can’t be jumping and only into work and be a workaholic and forget your people, forget your family, forget your friend. I think at the end of the day, people that really impact my life is people that I can see that can do a great balance of work, success, family, friends, you know?


Speaker 1 (35m 41s): Oh, that’s, that’s good. So what changes are you looking to create in this industry?

Speaker 2 (35m 47s): I think my primary goal be that every single content creator and influencer, they have access to brand protection tools, you know, without having to sacrifice their paycheck every month. Like a lot of models they’ll make hundred dollars every two weeks or $200 a month at 300, they can’t afford brand protection service that currently existed before Brandon scam. So I want to be able to bring tools for them to help their brands and for them to make money and feel safe. You know, because in the end, when, when they get catfished or their content gets leaked, when they protect, let’s say they want to hide all their content from Canada or Quebec or whatever.

And then the content gets leaked the next week. They just start, you know, they don’t have that much money to protect their brand, but now all their contents of delve online, what’s going to have big, they’re going to feel, they’re going to feel betrayed. They’re going to feel that they can’t trust working online, you know, and they’re going to feel horrible that maybe their family’s gonna find out and all that, so that I want to give them that security. And I want everybody to have access to the security and this feeling that, okay, I feel safe. Someone’s on my side that if something happens, Brandon scans here, and I want to feel like that person on their side, I say, we got you.

You know,

Speaker 1 (37m 0s): That’s very cool. So what’s the biggest challenge you’re facing in your business right, right now. And what are you doing about it?

Speaker 2 (37m 8s): I think it’s more or less scaling a team. You know, making sure counting is up to par. HR is always a tough one. You know, accounting, scalability. Those are things that are always the hardest challenge of building a business. The product part is always, if you have a good product and you know how to scale that it speaks for itself, it grows. It does well, you develop it, you launch features, but the people, your, your company, that’s, what’s always harder to build. So scaling that, hiring people, making sure they meshed again, make sure you chose right. And we should, payroll is going on time. All these things.

That’s the part that’s always harder. So that’s what is always challenging. And that’s my role now is to really make sure that scale efficiently.

Speaker 1 (37m 47s): Well, it doesn’t sound easy.

Speaker 2 (37m 49s): I think we’re now we’re already at 21 people in the company. So, and we’ve been around for less than a year, eight months to correct.

Speaker 1 (37m 58s): Yeah. You can. The fact that you can say that you’re, that you’re, you’re supporting 21 families at this point after less than a year is pretty darn good. Thank

Speaker 2 (38m 9s): You. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (38m 10s): Yeah. So what’s an upcoming feature to branded scan that you’re excited about.

Speaker 2 (38m 16s): Well, we’ve launched a lot of features over the last few months. So our goal now is to really improve like our spiders improve the automation, the dashboard to look. One thing we launched actually last week was a branded score. It’s kind of like a health score of your brand. And it goes up as you have less tasks to do, unless you’ve printed is to take down. So kind like a credit score in a way. So it gives you that feeling that, okay, I’m doing everything for my brand. You know, it’s, it’s 95, it’s in the green, it’s in the red, you know that you have a lot to dispatch still. You didn’t do it. You have some tasks to do on your, on your dashboard.

So that’s one feature we just launched, but I know we had a few other ones that we’re doing for, but it’s more for accuracy and making sure Cassius accounts getting done. I mean, we launched the, the one that does facial recognition so that we’re able to scan catfish accounts, match a wrong, false positive with real one, actually, because we have your profile pic and we can match all their pictures to make sure of accuracy. So that’s also something that we’re improving all the time, but now it’s really mostly ensuring that our dashboard is, is easier to use you sign up at right away.

You know what to do that. We created a wizard also for first science, but also we want to do a, an automation where, you know, kind of like a basic and advanced feature where basically you just run two through, through your tasks, very easily with the next button and just do it. And you’ve got the advance, which shows you all your dashboard, you know, all the infringements. And it’s a little more for the advanced user. Some people may be to get overwhelmed, you know, when they get a thousand infringements, where do I start? You know, a simple task feature is something that we’re working on right now. So it’s really just an easy to do. Next next click, click, click.

I’m done. You know, very cool.

Speaker 1 (39m 57s): Well, Hey, Gino, I’d really like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (40m 5s): Definitely. Hopefully we’ll meet at one of the convention soon in person.

Speaker 1 (40m 8s): I look forward to it. My broker tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit. If you’re going to be making payments, this has done about half the time. These days, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow.

Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. There are a firm out of Washington DC, and know they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them, trust them. And I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a customer escrow, or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of days or an inspection period is allowed.

It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal, closing your broker and attorney can advise you more on this and it’s on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition, or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.

This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Anna Lee of 2 0 4 9 entertainment. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Gino from BranditScan. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Andreas Bischoff of the TES Affiliate Conferences.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult side broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. And one of the most famous affiliate programs in the adult industry, they’re a subscription-based dating adult social network and Cam’s affiliate program with exclusive ownership of custom developed websites and offers in straight gay, hardcore, and mainstream niches. They’ve been a prominent and sustainable affiliate program for 18 years. The company has weathered countless industry changes and regulations, and has always paid its affiliates well, and on time, this includes the entire affiliate database with historical performance data.

Plus the email list with 6.4 million active addresses, the technical platform has recently been rewritten and is modular based and built for scale. The entire system is hosted in the cloud, which allows for easy third-party integrations, scalability, and cost optimization with a focus on billing optimization, traffic monetization, and risk mitigation. The business intelligence system and team have been designed to maximize lifetime value and build a sustainable and long-term stream of passive income.

There’s a full technical infrastructure, including billing load, gateway integration, and call center tools with customer support and content moderation. This is a turnkey business that would allow anyone that’s great at traffic acquisition to own the entire life cycle and lifetime value of the customer. It has the technical infrastructure, reputation, relationships, and systems and processes to massively scale revenue, all this for only 2.95 million us dollars.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult type broker talk is Andreus Bishop of the T E S affiliate summits. Andrea, thanks for being back with us today on adult site broker

Speaker 2 (3m 41s): Talk, thank you very much for having me, Bruce,

Speaker 1 (3m 44s): Always a pleasure. Now, Andrea, this is one of the two organizers of the T E S affiliated conferences and the island gathering TES affiliate conferences formerly the European summit. And before that, the Barcelona summit was founded in 2009 with the event bringing together professionals from the online entertainment industry, e-commerce financial gaming, gambling, dating Forex, binary options, health nutraceuticals, and many other markets for an extensive three-day networking event from the onset TES was intent on creating a great networking experience for its attendees and delegates.

And I must say it does because in our high-tech world, it’s still a great importance that excellent relationships be developed and maintained as these are the cornerstones of building a successful business. And man, have we found that out during the pandemic entries, how much we miss live shows. So especially your shows, I got to say, so how do things look for such as in February from our end?

Speaker 2 (4m 50s): Very, very good. Surprisingly, we sold out the exhibition spaces in, in record time. Basically. We’ve never been selling exhibition space as fast as, as we’ve done this time. It seems that people are really, really ready to, to get back on, on doing life conferences. I think that also has to do with, we are basically one of the few that has proven in 2021 that live conferences can be hosted in a secure and safe environment.

So we’ve done my BIA in Spain and proc in, in the Czech Republic this year. And so I think the other sponsors just realize that if we say we do something it gets done. And, and yeah, as I said, it was just amazing was in two, three days we sold 40 50 of the exhibition space and we’re basically is sold out. So it came as a surprise to us, but we hadn’t really seen that people are ready to sick and tired of sitting on their hands and ready to go again.

Speaker 1 (5m 59s): Yeah. I think they’re kind of tired of the virtual shows too. I know you gave it a good go doing the hybrid show, but I think we all need to see our friends and business associates again,

Speaker 2 (6m 13s): For sure. I mean, that’s why we started wholesaling 12 years ago. I are big believers that the real business has done a human to human and a conference will always be there now in the future. But I don’t think they’ll ever have a real relevance to, to the real business major deal. You gotta, you gotta look the person in the eyes and not by our laptop.

Speaker 1 (6m 38s): I agree. I agree. And you, you guys have certainly become a gold standard. There’s no two ways about it in my mind. I remember I remember meeting you way back when at the Phoenix forum. And I said, so what do you do? And you said, well, we’re going to do a show in Europe in Barcelona. And I said, oh, that sounds like fun. Tell me about it. So we talked a little bit and I said, so, so you’re promoting your show here so well, yeah, but I’m kind of checking out what they do.

And I remember you went around to some of the other shows and you took what you liked and you left out what you didn’t like. And, and the shows continued to morph over the years. That once that’s one thing I noticed is that every year there’s something new, something different, something improved. And I can’t say that about all the shows. So I got to give you a lot of credit.

Speaker 2 (7m 30s): Yeah. Thank you very much. Yeah. We’re trying to set it sets a standard or a trend.

Speaker 1 (7m 36s): Yes. You certainly have. Now, if some of our listeners would still like to sponsor or exhibit in such as what should they,

Speaker 2 (7m 44s): They should contact me as soon as possible at the moment is a good time. We just added another four business launches last minute. And the might’ve been gone as well, but the moment you hear this, a better contact me immediately. And hopefully by that time, that’s still something available. Again, this is not sales talks. Just, I mean, if you look on our, on our exhibition plan on the website, you’ll, you’ll see that it’s four.

So it’s not the typical sales buy now buy now with a good deal. It’s not just a fact of life.

Speaker 1 (8m 30s): Well, and you added those, you added those silver lounges, which I was, I was, I took advantage of one. And when I first contacted you, you had nothing. That’s, that’s a great example of that. So how many attendees are you expecting to have in such us

Speaker 2 (8m 46s): Internally? I think we’re working with, I think the number 1000, it’s a, it’s an, it’s a nice round number. Although the hotel is not S large as some of the other hotels we’ve had in the past. So if you want to keep the social distancing in place and every one feels safe and secure, then we shouldn’t overload the hotel. So what I think is a nice number that guided it’s a full show.

You know, some people might not get a ticket if they’re too late, that’s a, that’s an a problem. But I think it’s quite reachable. I mean, some people doubt us, but as I said in only in July, we only had 250 people in my BI and proc and September, we already had 750 people again. And so I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t really see a reason why we shouldn’t have a thousand people again in seizures in February. And again, if sponsorship sales are an indication to attendance and I’m fairly, fairly convinced that it’ll go, it’ll go well.

And again, every day, the past is works for us. I mean, more and more people get vaccinated more and more people are allowed to travel again. And so I’m quite confident that that we’ll have a thousand attendees and probably 50, 60 exhibitors or,

Speaker 1 (10m 13s): Oh, you and I talk a lot and I ask you some times how many you expect at a show and then afterwards how many there were, and you’re usually pretty darn close.

Speaker 2 (10m 24s): Yeah. We’ve got 12 years of experience at Corona. It was actually pretty linear. I mean, we would grow a hundred attendees every half year. So a 300 and 400 and 500 and 600. So it was quite, quite easy to predict that we would grow 200 attendees a year, which doesn’t sound a lot, but at over 12 years and, and also, yeah, explosive growth is can cause a lot of problems and you might stumble over your own feet.

So control is actually not, not bad. So you can, you can ease into the larger size of your conference and avoid a lot of, a lot of issues that you might have if something just blows up in your face. Sure. Everyone would love to double attendee numbers from one year to the next. It looks good on paper, but again, it also creates a lot of, a lot of issues, right.

Speaker 1 (11m 21s): Especially now, are you still looking for speakers or people to join panels for the conference

Speaker 2 (11m 28s): As of today? As of the time when we record this? Yeah, we, we, we still have some speaking spots available in some, some spots on, on the panels, so people can still still join us.

Speaker 1 (11m 40s): Count me in that’s one thing we haven’t talked about yet for this show. Yeah. Definitely count me in, will there be indoor parties in February, 2022 switches? Or are you planning on moving them outdoors

Speaker 2 (11m 57s): From all sides? We definitely will not host any indoor parties yet. I don’t think the time has come yet. We try to replace them as much as possible with outdoor events. So there will be a new event, dinner and drinks in the evenings so that people can, which will be hosted on the terrorists of the, of the restaurant in front of the conference hotel. So people can be outside and have some, some toppers and, and some drinks, but at least they’re on the outside and have fresh errands and not inside.

And after that in the evening, we’ll, we’ll host a night bar on the terrorists of the conference hotel. So again, you can be having a, a last drink on the terrorists outdoors with fresh air. And we, we, we, we try to avoid the indoors for now as, as much as possible. So, so from our side, there will be no indoor parties, if maybe some third party things that they have to throw us into a party, then it might happen, but it’s not coordinated with us.

Speaker 1 (13m 5s): Okay. I think again, that’s very smart. Why the move from cus guys to such as, and will the, will we be back in Portugal in the future?

Speaker 2 (13m 18s): It was mainly obviously, as you know, we’ve been working many years with hotel in, in Portugal and obviously Corona was easier plug and play. Just repeat the contract, came up. Obviously the, the co the contracts had to be revised and that unfortunately took quite, quite long, not from our side, but so that there comes a point where you just have to make a, take a position and we’ll tell it in, in, in C just immediately said, I asked him, would you like to have the group back?

And immediately they said, yeah, let’s meet tomorrow and let’s do it. And we’re super excited to see our people again. And sure. I said also with, yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s, you know, it’s smaller venue, but we stopped doing Krone times for one year. It could be a nice change of pace then the year after it, since you’re asking one, I think we’re, we’ll be back at full size, full force. Then the current plan is to be back in cash location two in February, 2023.

Speaker 1 (14m 33s): Okay. Okay. Yeah. I always loved such as, and what you used to live there and the, yeah, the, the whole atmosphere of that hotel, but obviously the show outgrew it, but obviously another advantage of, of being there is good luck having outdoor parties this time of year in Portugal. It’s cold man and rainy.

Speaker 2 (14m 58s): Oh

Speaker 1 (14m 59s): Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. God, we were, so we were so cold. What is it? 2020. It was the last live show I’ve been to. And our Airbnb was just so damn cold when I heard you were going back to Spain. I said, thank you. But, but guest Geist is beautiful. It’s lovely. I will be back. There’s no two ways about it, but I don’t mind a year being a little bit warmer over for sure. So COVID has been rough for the event industry.

Have you ever thought about discontinuing T E S?

Speaker 2 (15m 35s): No. Not, not, not at all because we obviously, when, when we had only 250 people in, in, or certain people in, in mafia this year, obviously, yeah. That’s, that’s quite a change from the 2000 that we usually have, but we knew that it hadn’t didn’t have anything to do with us. So it’s not that we lost any sponsors or that we lost any participants that, that they just took a break, nothing to do with us. So knowing that whenever the whole COVID thing gets a little bit more under control, that everyone will be back, there was never really a, that in our, our hats not to, to continue.

The other thing is also Walter and I are quiet, simple people. So we, we don’t have big sports cars or villas or yachts or anything to maintain. So we, we survive on very little and we’ve, we’ve been very prudent over the last 12 years. So we, we, we could honestly go on for our financials are very, very solid. And even, even in, we managed in 2022, we were the last show to get through the door.

We on some money and now went to some 21 was probably where the first show to go through the door. So even in Tucson 22, and in, in Tucson 21, we, we made black numbers money, which not all men comfort event. Organizers can, can probably say so, yeah. We’re not going anywhere.

Speaker 1 (17m 12s): Do you ever stop to think about where you started 12 years ago or wall turn you started and where you are today. And when I say today, I’m talking about having a Prague show that’s been as high as what, 2000 people or more do you ever stop and think about it and think how far you’ve come and the whole journey.

Speaker 2 (17m 36s): Yeah. Sometimes we, we are quite, we’ll look back and where we’re quite quite surprised, especially when you see old pictures and those things. And yeah, it’s quite, quite interesting happening a quite interesting journey. I mean, the, the plan at the beginning was only to one to do one conference a year. And we said once to see us twice a year, and then we did two, and they’re both doing very well. I mean, we were doing, it could be on something it’s, it’s a business we do, but it’s also a business.

One of the shows drops below 400. We’ll we’ll kill it. We’re not in it for the, for the ego. Like I have a feeling, some other organizers are, but we always say, have we dropped below 400 attendees and we killed one of the two. It makes the other one bigger. But luckily we got quite a, quite a buffer.

Speaker 1 (18m 29s): Yeah. It’s con it’s continued to grow and word it’s spread. It’s. It’s interesting. Now, you, you started, you started out as purely an adult event and you’ve added a lot of verticals over the years. What brought that on and, and what, what are the percentages these days between adult and other vertical?

Speaker 2 (18m 56s): Oh, that’s a good, good question. No, I mean, so yeah, we started started with very adult heavy and, but at some point, yeah, we, we, we become pretty dominant in the market ends and obviously couldn’t grow, let’s say higher anymore. So we had to grow wider and then we, we edit the online dating, and then we became, they’re pretty strong. And then we added more and more what the banks would maybe call high-risk verticals. And then we did there, and now we’re, we’re basically, yeah.

Working our way from the high-risk market, outside the onion. So we, we, we go layer by layer. So if you, if you want to make the polarization between high-risk and low-risk e-commerce business, and we started on high-risk side and where we’re adding more and more lower risk verticals to it. And actually that was an interesting sing in, in proc two months ago.

Cause we, we, we figured with COVID that the main, the 700 few foot peaks 750 attendees at those would all be our old hardcore fence that would take the risk to come. But surprisingly people taught me the word, a lot of new people from a lot of new verticals. So, so I don’t even ever have much of a, so the last show seemed to be, we seem to have added a lot of new vertical. I haven’t looked into which ones, but, but people were really surprised that that improv was so many new verticals and so many new affiliates.

You all also surprised because as I said, I mean, it was still the health risks that you take by attending things that only a hardcore fans of ours would, would show. But no, we, we created, we added a lot of new business.

Speaker 1 (20m 50s): That’s awesome. Now you moved your event dates for T E S and Prague from September to October, I’m sorry, September to August 22nd through the 25th. Let’s not give that information. Why did you do that?

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Yeah, that’s a, a thing. No, unfortunately the Czech Republic has the presidency of the council in next year and yeah, unfortunately they took the decision to book themselves into the diplomat hotel for half year or longer. So starting September. So yeah, basically, yeah, the one that had chance for us to move in there.

And then we, we checked with some other hotels regarding September, October, but to get any hotel in, in September, October in, in Europe exclusive is it’s next to impossible. And I mean, it is 22 to 25 August. It’s very close to September. So we, we said, well, then we’ll just have to bite the bullet for, for one year. Sure. Some business, I think it will.

Some people will not come you to, to, to, to, to those August dates. On the other hand, as I said, we always add new new business to our shows. So yeah, if we can lose as many people’s August dates, as we gained through our natural growth from show grow from show to show, yeah. Then next year it’s a year or two to maintain our already very high level then yeah.

We will continue our, our real growth in 2023.

Speaker 1 (22m 41s): I hope now how many people do you expect to be in Prague in August?

Speaker 2 (22m 46s): I would say gut feeling maybe 1,500. I mean, it’s still far away. I mean, a million things can happen was, was, was Corona and very good. So I it’s just a gut gut feeling, but I mean, we, we had by mass, I mean, we’re 2000 people before I give it, we lose maybe 70% of the debt before because of the dates or we’re back to the 1100, but then we add three, 400 natural or that’s the best, I don’t know, internally, I would think somewhere between 1500 and 2000, we should, should be able to do.

Speaker 1 (23m 22s): That’s awesome. Now, do you think you’ll be able to have the Prague show back in its original time slot in 2023? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23m 32s): It’s already signed. I mean, we already signed number 2, 7 23 with hotels already a done deal.

Speaker 1 (23m 39s): I do love the diplomat. It’s it’s like a second home.

Speaker 2 (23m 44s): It’s a nice cozy place, even though it’s a big, huge hotel, but it still has something cozy about it and it fits our family style event quite well.

Speaker 1 (23m 56s): Well on the staff and they they’re they’re. They’re awesome. They’re just awesome.

Speaker 2 (24m 0s): Yeah. You feel it foretell once your group or likes your group or if it does not. I mean that’s

Speaker 1 (24m 6s): Absolutely. Yeah. While they notice, well now apart from T E S in February and Prague and August, do you have any other events planned for 2022?

Speaker 2 (24m 19s): Yeah, we will bring the island gathering for once you asking the time has, has come up. People ask us a couple of times. And I mean, the event was, was a really, really nice event in, in the, in the past. The only single what I always say, what we didn’t do well was that we hosted it year after year. It’s not an event that the industry needs every, every year.

Hey, it’s pricey. That’s number one, B the people who attend, they have businesses to run, so that don’t want to be away from that business or the family every year, even a good thing you can overdue. So the concept is good. It’s just something that the industry only needs maybe every 2, 3, 5, 10 years. Definitely nothing that, that, that needs to be done every, every year in terms of growing. We never planned to have it every year, but then you ask some people came to us and said, oh, if you don’t do it next year, then your competitor will, and you have to do it.

And foolishly, we didn’t sink. And we, we, we started hosting it every year. And when the second one was not as good as the first one, we did a third one without sinking, and we should have just slowed down the pace. And every, every event would have been special and it was a learning experience. And now if a competitor wants to step in the years where we don’t want one to one or my guests, because it’s not as easy as, as it looks on paper,

Speaker 1 (25m 57s): Maybe I’ll actually get voted onto the island this year. We will see, I sometimes see you mentioned an event called on ad co. Can you tell me what the idea is behind this new event? And when it’s going to take place,

Speaker 2 (26m 16s): We mentioned before we are coming from the adult industry and adult will always be a large chunk of our conference, even though, even if we add more and more other verticals to it, then again, if I go with this onion yeah. If, if the adult business in the center and then the dating around it, and then the high-risk again around it, and then you have a little bit less high-risk. And so, but on the very outside of that onion, obviously you have, have the peel.

If you want to call the white, whatever you want to call it, the, the mainstream e-commerce business on the very outside. So are, you would be talking about big, big mainstream brands. I happened to know, notice that I seem to those big mainstream brands have a tenant in the past. I think they liked the format of our conference, but they don’t really want to be associated with a, with a high-risk verticals.

No, I had a speaker. He, he, he, he, he accepted and he showed up. And you said after the show, you know, if I would have known that this so much, high-risk, you’re, I, I wouldn’t have agreed to speak, but then later after the show, he said, yeah, but I’ll, I’ll come back during the next years. Always, even though I don’t have any high-risk business, I love your format of the show so much that I still wanna want to be part of this community.

And that happens with a lot of these mainstream brands that I think say they would also rather like to sit in a nice armchair, having a nice cocktail in their hand with fresh air and daylight and, and discuss business in a, in a chill and relaxed way, standing in a, in the typical expo center or ballroom without daylight and fresh air and standing on a cocktail table was a loop warm coffee in the hand that costs $10.

I think also the mainstream world would like to, to do business in a, in a, in a, in a less painful way. I always think business doesn’t have to be painful. So, I mean, you, you can stand on your, in your suit three days in front of a boost in a, in a dark room without fresh air and daylight, or you can also sit there in a nice armchair with a cocktail in your hand and do the same business. So it doesn’t have to be painful.

And so we, we saw that we would host basically do the same TSS for the, for the high-risk verticals do on Appco for the, for the low, low risk.

Speaker 1 (29m 20s): And when is that going to

Speaker 2 (29m 21s): Be? We will do that in September, 2023, and we will host it time-wise next to two RTS conference. And probably also next to, to dmexco, which is a large conference, a mainstream conference hosting cologne, so that people can take advantage of all three conferences is like, so, and, and also of our Tucson people, I’m sure there are 4, 5, 600 people that work in high-risk and low risk markets and different enterprises.

And so if we only bring them over to a two on opcos, and it’ll already guarantee the success of, of the conference, because we, we know from, from T S we only need to do the first show was well with 200 5300 people. And then we’ll go into an automatic gross. I mean, we forget to 250, 300 mainstream people, and we make them happy. They’ll tell their, their, their mainstream business friends.

And then there will be 400 people the next time. And they’ll tell their friends, and we’ll be 500, 600, 700. Our, our growth has always been you to positive word of mouth from our existing clients. We’ve never spent much or next to no money on marketing or sales or any, anything. It’s all just people telling their friends, Hey, I’ve been there. I made good business. It was fun. I enjoyed it. Check it out.

Speaker 1 (31m 1s): Absolutely. So what’s your outlook for 2023 and 2024 and beyond

Speaker 2 (31m 7s): Very, very, very positive. I mean, approves on 23, I think we will be, we’ll be as a year where I think 2022 will be still, we’ll still be a year of transition. And 23, I think will be the year when we are we’re back where we used to be in 2000, 19 year. For those years to some 23, we will we’ll we’ll do cash cash, patient proc again, then Tucson 24. Yeah. We’ll see if we can maybe mix it up a little, I wouldn’t wouldn’t mind to, to rotate the conference.

We’ll, we’ll see if it’ll happen, but could be to do to 2023 in cascades and Tucson 24, somewhere else to some 25, 26 in somewhere else again, and say 23 and practice on 24, somewhere else, some 25 back to prac, lots of, to, to work with small hotels, which protects us if something ever happens to hotel, which happened to us in the past, it keeps, it shows a little bit fresh.

Doesn’t make it so stay up. I mean, some people liked the idea of going back to seizures for one, some bone, but I think in the end afterwards, people would say, oh, it was a nice break. After, after so many years of cautious, just some fresh. Yeah. Let’s go back to

Speaker 1 (32m 33s): It’s like, which is like what you did that, that time with Budapest, which I’d love to go back there. Maybe not the same hotel, but

Speaker 2 (32m 44s): Yeah, no, I mean, I’ve looked at all the hotels in Budapest, we’re back to normal size. They’re not really any hotels that can, can feed us, but no, that’s, that’s also on my, to do list for next summer up to go out, especially to Western Europe and check out all the major Eastern European cities and all the hotels there and see if we can find a second home as an alternative to a Quality already happening a lot in here, maybe too much.

But I personally would love QF. QF would only become an option once Corona is really, really, really, really over. Yeah. Because obviously, yeah, if I was to conference outside of the European union and then suddenly for whatever reason, yeah. Travel gets restricted besides between the European union and an appeal, 90% of my business or 80, 90% of my business is suddenly traveling.

You it’s sad, but that’s only 10, 20% of our business that we lose friction. So

Speaker 1 (33m 57s): Lots of options. There’s lots of options in the EU. That’s for sure.

Speaker 2 (34m 1s): Yeah. Well, I mean, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll look around. I mean, It’s not really about, yeah. Once we have something, we, we, we, we might put the thing. It’s not really people say, oh, check out this city or that city, it’s not about the city. The issue is we need to find the tells that kind of in a family style atmosphere, right. Two and a half, 3000, 4,000 people, we don’t want to find a hotel for 1,500, 2000 people, which is easier to find because we outgrow it in Tucson 23.

So we, we already need to look at, at hotels two and a half, 3000 people, 4,000 people. And of those, you don’t have that many. So, so yeah. People say, oh, I love whatever wash out, but I find a fantastic hotel in Sofia then. Yeah. I mean, that’s Sophia. It is or the other way around. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s more that we need to find a hotel space, large enough in the larger you, I mean, once you get into three, 4,000 people, they have so many hotels in Europe that can host that number in a, in a nice ambiance.

I mean, obviously I can always rent a uterus ballroom and, but every thing that stands for,

Speaker 1 (35m 23s): Well, you’ve got, you’ve got a reputation already to uphold. So people expect a certain event and you have to have the facilities to support it. Let’s face it. So some shows and events stopped, but T E S is still going strong or even stronger. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (35m 40s): Maybe just because we’re available? I would say, I don’t know if, if people have a question they say, got me on Skype, on Facebook messenger on my mobile number. They got my email, they got me on telegram or caramel. So whenever people have something that they want to know or that they want to tell me, they have direct access and just being, being close to our customers and having them involved is one of our strong points.

So let’s set, we, we see ourselves as a family industry family event. I mean, even when we are two solid people, people still came up to me and said, Hey, Andreas, you have such a nice boutique show. And you’re aware that our, to solve the people you don’t know. So, but I mean, it’s compliment,

Speaker 1 (36m 35s): I compare it to compare it to some of these, some of these big, you know, affiliate summits and affiliate world conquer congresses that have what, 10, 12,000 people. Right?

Speaker 2 (36m 45s): Yeah. And as I said, no, I mean, sometimes people miss chapters, I mean, of the brands that you guys name, I’m sure we are aware of sometimes in Europe and then some of their events, but people don’t feel that they say I’m an estimate us, but in a good way, as I said, we want to be, I mean, our goal is to be a family style or a boutique event for four or 5,000 people. Right. We don’t want to, we don’t want to be an industrial event for four or 5,000 people.

Speaker 1 (37m 20s): Gotcha. So how happy overall have you been with Prague?

Speaker 2 (37m 25s): Oh, very, very, very much. I mean, I mean, it’s when we, when we started, when we did process here, we’re quite sure if it, if it would be, let’s say a T S or a summit light, but no being there with the seminar 50 people, like, like any other year, I mean, you, you couldn’t tell the, you couldn’t tell the difference. I mean, 750 people is also, it’s a lot of people. I mean, we’re, we’re, we’re sometimes when, when people ask me, oh, how many people are going to come to two seizures?

Oh yeah. Only what only a thousand people. Don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t don’t realize how many people and even ourselves, I mean, we, we are so spoiled. If you, if you have 6, 7, 800 people, that’s a lot of people, people don’t don’t realize that any, any, any more. And also you’re asking people are also a little bit misleading because every conference that every new conference that comes on the Mac market immediately announces 2000, 3000 attendees.

And it’s not always true when people come in and I don’t know if they then believes that whatever they see is two, three sound people, then they might’ve get misled.

Speaker 1 (38m 42s): And we’ve spoken about that before. And I don’t think every conference has exactly truthful about their attendance.

Speaker 2 (38m 49s): No, I think they’re more out there than are very friendly was their estimates

Speaker 1 (38m 57s): Indeed. So

Speaker 2 (38m 59s): While we publish since ever our participants list, so you can find out you got exactly what you see and, and all those. So you can email all those people and yeah, we can. I mean, you’ll, you’ll see. I mean, they all exist. So all still alive and kicking, and that’s not always the case

Speaker 1 (39m 20s): And the other shows don’t post their lists, you know, they don’t, they don’t, they don’t post the list and how to contact them. So that kind of, I think that kind of says it all. So what do you have planned for Prague in August?

Speaker 2 (39m 31s): Basically put in pretty much what we, the conference have been in the past. I mean, the basically it’ll be exactly a full conference. Like, like always the only thing that obviously is, is always a question, mark, is what we discussed at the very beginning of the interviewer is parties. I mean, I will reserve the spaces and sure, last minute we will have to see if Walter and I feel comfortable supporting that idea of an indoor party or, or not.

But for the rest of it, it’ll be a full conference as, as, as, as, as always. Is that the only, only question mark would be Endora in parties and if those are doubtful, then again, we will see if we, if we can replace them buyer, buy something or outdoors.

Speaker 1 (40m 24s): So do you guys get any, any like, like medical advice for medical professionals on, on such things?

Speaker 2 (40m 32s): No, but no. I mean, we, we, we are in close contact with the hotel and the hotel is in contact with, with the local authorities, tell the hotel what event organizers have to, to abide. And then we a hundred percent follow those laws rules that we receive from the local governments. Right.

Speaker 1 (40m 56s): So when you guys tend to be on the conservative side too,

Speaker 2 (40m 59s): Yeah, yeah. Better, safe than safe than sorry. And, but it’s getting better. I mean, I sat in my, in my BR we only have 250 people. And out of those, I think 10% probably went home with COVID due to various reasons. And on property at 750 people, we checked every, every one that they were vaccinated or had it, or a test from the day. And to my current knowledge out of 750 people, surprisingly, I haven’t heard of a single case of

Speaker 1 (41m 35s): No,

Speaker 2 (41m 38s): Honestly, we honestly didn’t expect

Speaker 1 (41m 40s): You hear about that stuff. Well, that brings about a good question. What will the, what will the COVID requirements be at this point for the February show?

Speaker 2 (41m 51s): Yeah, that’s that’s, I mean, nobody knows what’s going to be in, in February at the moment, obviously in the hotel, you would have to wear a mask and, and if you cannot maintain social distancing, which means to meet to 50, then you would have to wear a mask. If you can maintain one 50 outdoors in, in Spain, you, you don’t have to wear a mask at the moment, but again, those are all fluent sings. So yeah, I don’t, I don’t really want to say any, any,

Speaker 1 (42m 23s): What are you, are you requiring vaccination testing? Anything like that

Speaker 2 (42m 27s): entry would, would be either vaccinated or, or recovered or, or a test from the day in, in proc nearly everyone was vaccinated. I mean, I would say 95 plus percent vaccinated, then maybe one, 2% recovered. And maybe the remaining one to 3% did, did, did a test when arriving in that posit, but that was

Speaker 1 (43m 5s): Fabulous. Well, Hey, Andres, I’d like to thank you for being back with us again on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again. Soon. My broker tip today is part five of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about how to determine the value of a site, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement, what should be in it? Well, your attorney will guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint, what is the date you’d like to close?

Make sure you know, that you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date. I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. In fact, I’m going through some of that now with a couple of my deals, make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records, including 2, 2, 5, 7 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites.

Of course it should spell out any payment schedule. If there is one who’s responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow. And there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller situation, this assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your legal representative so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week we’ll have a wrap up of this week’s ex biz LA show, adult side broker talk is on hand handed X biz LA, and we’ll also be at Internext expo, Las Vegas, interviewing some of the people attending the shows, hope to see you there. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Andreas Bischoff. See you at the show in Sitges February 23rd through the 26th. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Leah Mahi of XBIZ.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website at adult-site-broker-dot-com.
We’ve added some enhancements to the site, such as FAQs, and a complete new platform.
The look and feel of the new site are nice and up to date.
The new site also has links to our marketplace and affiliate program.

And don’t forget ASB Marketplace, the first platform where you can buy and sell adult sites and domains for FREE!
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Visit ASB-Marketplace-dot-com and sign up as a seller or as a buyer today.

And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, internet.com. The ultimate internet domain is now available, and we are proud to list it. The domain gets 6 million unique visitors a month. This domain can be used for any of a number of uses. The opening bid is only $35 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Leah mahi of experience.

Leah, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Hi,

Speaker 2 (2m 17s): It’s a great pleasure. I’m excited. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 20s): I am excited to it. Hasn’t been easy to get you on. Okay. So I’m going to tell people about X biz for those who don’t know. And now they’ve been at the forefront of adult media since their inception X biz is the industry source providing the best coverage to professionals and consumers worldwide. Their properties include X biz.com, which is the leading source for industry news in-depth features and business resources. X biz.net is the industry social network, connecting professionals worldwide with business opportunities, which I am on a lot, including right before this interview, X biz is a trade publication for adult digital media, providing in-depth analysis of current and emerging tech trends.

Experts premiere is a journal for adult retail covering trends in product manufacturing, distribution, marketing and sales expert is director of marketing and advertising. The Lia mahi partners with content platforms, pay sites, web services, talent, and a host of other organizations to promote adult industry brands and champion sex workers from coordinating star interviews and company profiles with experts, world magazines, editorial staff, to interfacing with the biz.com news team, as well as executing sponsorship campaigns for the diverse array of annual Alexa’s events and award ceremonies.

Leah combines the evolving needs of our clients with the wellbeing of the community at large uniting industry members from all market sectors in an exclusive setting, Xmas LA tracks, the evolution of adult providing attendees with the knowledge to say, stay ahead of the curve. The week long January events deliver a lineup of symposiums and keynote addresses featuring the industry’s foremost thought leaders to examine current trends and identify emerging opportunities. The events include the expo show, a digital B2B media event, the new X three expo for creators, the expos awards hosted by Maitland ward.

It’s quite a get at the Hollywood palladium and the a N M E X biz hybrid worldwide expo for the product and retail industry in beautiful downtown Burbank, Johnny Carson lives. I’m sorry, only that’s all the time we have for today. Just getting,

Speaker 2 (4m 45s): You know, it was just, just listening to everything you say. And it amazes me to hear it from the outside in, because everything that we do and everything that I have my hands and you just kind of do it. Right. So by listening to you listed off, I’m like, holy moly, like,

Speaker 1 (5m 5s): Did that make you more tough? Did that make you even more tired than you are now?

Speaker 2 (5m 10s): I don’t make me feel very proud and excited.

Speaker 1 (5m 16s): Yeah, no. Hey, you know, you guys are a big part of our industry. No doubt about it. So, Leah, I know you have an advertising and marketing background. So tell me how you got into the crazy adult industry.

Speaker 2 (5m 31s): Well, you know, it’s funny as before adult, I mean, I’ve had several jobs and I don’t think a lot of people realize, but I was a flight attendant, you know? Yeah. I work for Southwest airlines actually.

Speaker 1 (5m 45s): Oh God. Yeah. I think we probably, we probably met, I used to go down to Burbank. I used to go down to Burbank every weekend for a year. I was dating a, a, a woman who worked for ABC and we used to be up and down every other weekend, so,

Speaker 2 (5m 60s): Oh yeah. You know, I guarantee you then, because I was originally stationed in Chicago, so I was taking the east coast flights and then the snow, it was just unbearable. So I transferred back to the west coast and I did those short hops. So Burbank was definitely one of my,

Speaker 1 (6m 19s): Were you there during that whole, I forget what the hell they called it, but it was like, there was like so much rain and so many delays that year.

Speaker 2 (6m 29s): Oh yeah. I mean, you would be amazed. Yes. It was crazy. It was, it was unreal. But, but yeah, I was a flight attendant. I, I managed top LA attorney offices. I’ve worked for top financial firms. I was a massage therapist, so I had several, several jobs, but when I moved to Hawaii, that’s when I kind of found my love for advertising and marketing. Yeah. So less than a few years, I was promoted to advertising director.

So I was managing five teams and over 30 employees for the island news. So yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, it was pretty intense. I was recognized as a youngest advertising director of all of the islands at the time. Wow. Isn’t that crazy?

Speaker 1 (7m 19s): Didn’t you grow up in Hawaii?

Speaker 2 (7m 21s): You know, I grew up here in Los Angeles, but my father is born and raised in Hawaii, so yeah. So I moved to Hawaii for about 15 years. And then, yeah. And then I came back. So back to your question about, you know, how I got into adult. Yeah. So my oldest daughter has a medical condition that required me to uproot my family and moved back to Los Angeles for her care. Yeah. So I was sending out my resumes, you know, just knowing that I had to move back to Los Angeles.

I was kind of just shooting out my resumes and anything that had marketing, advertising requirements. And so I sent it to X, X bids without realizing what the company was called, but we totally, we hit it off immediately. And so, yeah. So what sold me was the fact that Alec was so passionate about X biz and the adult community. And that’s kind of what drew me to want to be a part of it, you know, because marketing advertising is the same in any industry and adult is no different.

So, yeah. Right. You know, we talked about this a lot for me. Exactly. So for me, you know, I was completely open to adult and, you know, and I was, I was excited about getting involved in the fact that I had to move to LA. So my daughter can have medical care that the islands weren’t able to offer her. Plus I was able to come employed. Oh, that was a blessing for me.

Speaker 1 (9m 4s): Well, hello, nice to show up employed as opposed to not having a job.

Speaker 2 (9m 10s): Right. And you know, and I, I knew I had to get here. I just didn’t know how you know, and, and you know, and so that to me was a sign that, that it was going to be okay. I was uprooting my family and moving back to Los Angeles and I was in Hawaii for 15 years. So, I mean, I had complete roots back on the island. So coming here, coming here and Alec and, and experts just being so welcoming just made me know that this was a right move.

Speaker 1 (9m 43s): Sure. Now, how is the transition back to the mainland?

Speaker 2 (9m 49s): Oh, now that just even just getting on a freeway, I was like, so culture shocked, you know, and yeah. I mean, I was born and raised in alley, but coming from an island that when you honk at somebody, it’s because you know them on the audio, not because it’s road rage. So coming back to LA and I live by the beach. So going back into downtown LA to, to the office, I was scared as heck, just trying to get on that freeway, but you know, like anything muscle memory, I was just became an LA girl all over again.

Speaker 1 (10m 32s): Oh, wow. That’s crazy. How about your family? How was it for them?

Speaker 2 (10m 36s): Oh, it was, you know, my family was hard. I mean, my kids went to traditional commandment of schools on the island and, and their use of calling everybody, auntie and uncle, you know, regardless whether you’re related, it’s a form of respect for the island kids. Right. So their teachers, they call kumu, which means teacher. They don’t call them by Mr. Or Mrs. So coming here and then they, every morning they do an island prayer kind of opening up the day.

So it was a lot of transition for the kids, not understanding why nobody’s auntie and uncle. And, but, you know, within a few years, these kids are, you know, they’re, they are LA babies.

Speaker 1 (11m 24s): So you’re a very active working mom. And that’s something I really respect since I was raised by a single mom. How do you balance everything, especially at a time like this, which is probably your busiest time of the year with all these shows,

Speaker 2 (11m 39s): You know, I didn’t know that you were raised by a single mom. I love that.

Speaker 1 (11m 44s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. From a very, from a very young age, from like the age of eight. So yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (11m 52s): So I think that you, you know, you kind of relate, I was a single mom for very, for a lot of years. Yeah. And, and, you know, yeah, no, it’s completely hard. So I mean, anyone that’s a single mom. I mean, I, I, I bowed down to, I mean, it is, it is one of the most difficult jobs to do in life, you know,

Speaker 1 (12m 19s): Maybe the most difficult now she’s she was amazing. She was,

Speaker 2 (12m 25s): Yeah. You know, and, and, and I love that. And I think, you know, like my oldest son, I was, I was a single mom and I had him at a very young age. So I have a complete different relationship with my oldest son. Cause it’s kind of, as if we grew up together, I’m sure you can relate. Right. I mean that, he was my little man. And so I was dependent on him as much as he was dependent on me at the time, because we’re just trying to get through it together, you know?

So, so I love that. I love that person, you know, and I, I almost wanted to just give you a big hug because I get it, you know, I can totally relate

Speaker 1 (13m 8s): Two weeks,

Speaker 2 (13m 9s): Two weeks, but yeah. So, you know, balancing it all, I think, you know, being a mother, there is no balance. You just go, you go, you know, and, and I’m the type of person that I’m either all in or I’m all out. So if I love something and I love hard and I have passion and drive for it, or I just don’t do it. And so, so for me, everything that I do for X is, and the shows and my clients and the performer is in the community members.

It’s just like family and my kids. It just, I being, I just kind of being back and forth, you know,

Speaker 1 (13m 52s): It’s like having two families. No, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you what I, I say this all the time that the, that the adult industry is a family. It’s a big thing.

Speaker 2 (14m 2s): It is. I mean, it’s a, it’s a big family to the point that like, like, like you said, I’ve come from the mainstream side of it, as well as the adult side and hands down, the adult community is, is, is one big family. When you say a community, it truly is a community. So when your, your, your clients are your, some of your best friends, they are some of your mentors there, or your, the mentor, you know, you really truly spend so much time with them on the level that most people are looking from the outside in, just can never even understand.

Speaker 1 (14m 43s): I, I think our industry is just so different from any other, because it’s just tighter. There’s a lot of noise from the outside. There’s a lot of attacks from the outside and that just causes everyone to pull closer together.

Speaker 2 (14m 58s): No, I agree. I agree. And I think, you know, they shows are so important cause that’s what kind of binds everybody together, right?

Speaker 1 (15m 6s): Yeah. And the way that’s, that has really been lacking, I, this will be my, this will be my first show in almost two years. And man, I feel it. I really feel it. So, so expos.com is a daily tool for myself and others in the industry to find out what’s happening in our business. How important a part of your network is biz.com

Speaker 2 (15m 30s): Experts.com is our flagship product. I mean, it makes everything we do possible and fuels our global growth. I know we do a lot, like your intro says, I didn’t realize we do that much.

Speaker 1 (15m 44s): It might be a record that might be a record intro as far as length, by the way.

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): But you know, at the end of the day, we are a news and information company and there’s no better way to distribute our content. The next biz.com

Speaker 1 (15m 58s): No two ways about it. How many people do you have on your editorial staff?

Speaker 2 (16m 3s): You know, we have, I mean, in the office, we have a very small, like, we have a very small group that people don’t realize in office, but then we have so many satellite editorial. So from all over the world, I mean, we’ve got, we’ve got employees in Japan, we’ve got just all over. But in terms of the core editorial staff that are there in our office on a daily basis, we have a total of four.

Speaker 1 (16m 34s): Hmm. Okay. Wow. We get a lot done the whole lot done.

Speaker 2 (16m 39s): Well, they get a lot done considering it’s four and how much news, you know, comes in on a daily basis. It just is 24 hours a day nonstop. So these guys, their machines, I mean, I think everybody that works for X’s is a machine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16m 57s): You gotta be, you know, another platform I spend a ton of time on is X biz.net. It’s a great place to meet other industry professionals virtually and discuss what’s going on. I found myself using it a lot more since the pandemic started. Have you found the same thing to be true overall in the last couple of years?

Speaker 2 (17m 18s): Well, yeah. I mean, ex expo stats, nets core value is interconnecting everyone. Right? So during the pandemic that is just kind of exploded, you know, and, and I think over the years, people have come to realize that it’s really a valuable tool. Discussions are great too, but ultimately it’s about connecting the people with people. And so people like you, you know, we were talking earlier, you know, people coming into the industry, not just because it’s our, it’s our product, but it’s because of the fact that I truly believe that this X is.net is the opportunity for folks to build relationships with the community.

They can use it as a leads list. We’ve got a directory of a number of different categories and all the people in it and the beauty behind it. And I always show clients coming in is in your profile. The decision leaders are there and it has their emails. It has their Skypes, it has their telegrams and WhatsApp. So your, this is the only ultimate black book you’ll ever find.

It’s, it’s a perfect way to build relationships digitally, as well as seek out possible business opportunities for you.

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Absolutely. Lately, since it’s become such a big thing with the only fans of the world, you got a lot more creators on there and performers.

Speaker 2 (19m 2s): Yeah, no, I mean, and I think, you know, in terms of the creators, I mean, we’ve the creators themselves. We have kind of pivoted towards the creators for years now, you know, between our ex is cam world and our creator world, as well as our experts, Miami show, their creators have been a part of ex-business for, for, for years. And now it’s just becoming more of an abundance and people in other, other community members are kind of seeing that and really for the performer, this is the perfect time.

I mean, they are really a core intricate part of the community on the business side, as well as on the accounting side. So I’m so happy.

Speaker 1 (19m 48s): Well, and, and there’s a, there’s a certain percentage of them that have morphed into pretty successful entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2 (19m 57s): Oh yeah. I mean, they, I mean, the traffic that the talent has is, is unbelievable. And the ability to they’re the ones that can garner that loyalty, you know, their fans love them, love who they think, you know, in terms of wanting to support them and wanting to make sure that they’re taking care of whether that’s their education, whether that’s, you know, a number of different opportunities that, that they can help support.

So right now creators they’re, they’re definitely in a very good position.

Speaker 1 (20m 36s): Absolutely. Now I read X biz world every month. Online, obviously getting things delivered here to Thailand is a bit problematic. If you tried to send it, who knows, I might end up in jail. Your company still has to print publications in an age when so many magazines and magazines and newspapers have disappeared. How relevant is print publishing today as we go into 2022,

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Oh, shoot for us, print publishing remained super relevant while digital additions help expand the reach and the convenience, our print additions are the products that make the greatest impact in terms of brand messaging for my clients and companies.

Speaker 1 (21m 22s): Interesting. Interesting. Now let’s talk about the upcoming events and maybe you can give us a bit of a preview. The one that saw the most important to me and I’ll mention it first is the expert show. Since it’s B2B, January 3rd, through the sixth at the Kimpton Everly hotel in Hollywood, talk a bit about this event and the best way to get the most out of it for attendees.

Speaker 2 (21m 47s): Well, I think, I mean, the it’s, it’s still very traditional. We are having it at a new location. I love the Kimpton, Everly. I think it’s a, it’s a super cute botique stylish Hollywood, Right. And I stay there often and, and I truly, truly love it so that us being able to move it to the Kimpton. Oh, I was, I was extremely happy because I, I really feel like the community will enjoy the hotel.

They’ll enjoy the comfort of it and the boutiqueness of it. But at the same time, they’ll, they’ll enjoy the luxury of it. That is, is, is I’m super excited for the community to see. But then in terms of the show, it’s still very traditional. I mean, we’re going to have our talent track that we typically have. We’ll have the webmaster track and then we’ll have some workshop tracks. So that doesn’t change. We are going to stay w we are going to kind of stay away from doing a speed networking for obvious reasons.

It’s just a little too close for comfort.

Speaker 1 (22m 58s): Bums me out. That’s my favorite.

Speaker 2 (23m 1s): I know. But the beauty about that is that we’ll have a lot more cocktail parties. So you’ll be able to have these connections and these conversations rather than a speed dating where it’s like, hurry up and I’m yelling at you guys to move. You’ll go to actually,

Speaker 1 (23m 16s): You do, oh, you’re tough.

Speaker 2 (23m 24s): I’m a mom, right? No,

Speaker 1 (23m 25s): I mean, I feel, I feel like a kid and, and, you know, and you know what, I appreciate that, by the way, you know, the other guy, the guy who does that at some of the other shows is Alex. And, and we just, I did another interview with him recently, and we talked that, and you guys are the two best at that. I mean, you just, okay, move everybody move, come on kids.

Speaker 2 (23m 57s): But you know what? I love speed network. I know it’s true, but I just love it. And it’s such a fun event for me, but, you know, we want to make sure that we, we put our attendees in safe environments. And so we opted out not to do it this year, but we are going to have cocktail. And it really, I think now the day, you know, the way that kind of life is it’s important to go back, to have these conversations. It’s so important to be able to have really substantial conversations nowadays.

And I think by us having cocktails opportunities, and then of course our, you know, our, our winter Wonderland, which will be super exciting and fun. And it’s, you know, that people wait for that year round, that’ll be there. We’re going to have our Zack and honors. And I hope you saw the announcement. We’ve got Leah tannin and Austin,

Speaker 1 (24m 56s): My favorites, two of my favorites. I sent them both. They sent, I sent them both emails, congratulating him. Of course, of course he knew me,

Speaker 2 (25m 7s): You know, and, and they’re such good friends and, you know, and I think they chemistry. Yeah. So, so the LA show it’s, it’s, it’s going to be, it’s going to be just as exciting. I’m excited to get back to it. We are going to be a safe, as you know, as possible. I think again, we’ve been in it for so long that I think everybody has their own personal precautions. Right. So everybody is, is for me, like, I, I just told you earlier, my daughter has medical conditions.

So what I do is what I do for me. It doesn’t mean that the next person is going to do it for them, but I know what I do for me. And so, and I still enjoy it. So I, I’m looking forward to, to seeing everybody and, and at the same time, having some great conversations.

Speaker 1 (26m 0s): Yeah. I’ll go to those cocktail parties and I’ll be standing on the other end of the room going, Hey, how you doing over there? Yeah. What’s going on? And we can have a conversation that way.

Speaker 2 (26m 12s): We’re going to have one on the rooftop. So it is outdoors. Yes.

Speaker 1 (26m 17s): No outdoors. Outdoors is definitely great. And in LA you know, terribly hot or cold. So I land, I’m always thinking the hot,

Speaker 2 (26m 30s): I understand. I, you know, Thailand is, I have to tell you, you know, people, you know, in Hawaii or at least on the big island, you would think local food, Hawaiian food would be something that we’re known for it, but on the big island where I’m from it’s Thai food, food and sushi are the best for you.

Speaker 1 (26m 52s): Well, Japanese food in Hawaii is big because there’s so many Japanese people who have, who have migrated there. And, oh, we got some great sushi here to God, about five minutes away. There’s a, there’s a sushi buffet. That’s like $20 for all you can eat. And, well, that’s a lot for hair. Okay. And yeah. But, oh, it’s cool. And yeah.

And so, yeah, I mean, I just, I just load up on the sashimi, you know? Yeah, yeah. Go, go for the expensive crap, really. So

Speaker 2 (27m 33s): Yeah. I love it. But you know, all in all, like, you know, going back to the show, it we’re super excited to coming back. We’ve got a lot of big header we are going to do. We also have some keynotes happening, so that’ll be super exciting. And I’m really excited about the two keynotes at that. That’s that’s going on. We also are going to have our very first gay summit and it’s kind of co yeah.

It’s, co-hosted with Cornell media and ex-business, that is super exciting. Yeah. And then we’ll have our FSC summit that we typically have. And then, you know, we’ve got all our, our great workshops from different companies and of course, pineapple support. So we’ve got a whole really good lineup and, and it’s, it’s, it’s gonna be really fun.

Speaker 1 (28m 29s): You mentioned FSC. I had Mike’s to bill interviewed him last week and that’s going to be on in the new year. So we try to cover every base possible and he was great. He was great. Yeah. And we’ll talk a little bit about pineapple support later. Now, the second event is the brand new X three expo for creators the seventh through the eighth, at the Hollywood palladium. Now what’s the agenda for this show. And why did your company feel the need to start it?

Speaker 2 (29m 1s): Well, like I said, a little earlier, we focused on the performer community for years now. You know, like I said, we have our cam world, we’ve got our creator world magazine. We have our Xs Miami show. As you know, our XPS Miami show is a complete B2B creator show, which allows creators the opportunity to meet with their peers, educate one another and explore business opportunities to expand their revenue streams and an industry only environment. So we’ve been part of the PR the performer direction for a very, for a little while now, but since the onset of the pandemic, there’s been a huge shift away from the traditional adult to over to the world of the creators and independence.

So we saw an opportunity to reimagine the trade show experience one that’s kind of tailored for the creator community to empower and promote themselves in new ways to ultimately help boost again, to help boost their business and to give our sponsors and opportunity to be in the direct eyes of the fan. So, so for us, it was a win-win.

Speaker 1 (30m 9s): Oh, sure. Yeah. It didn’t surprise me. You guys were going to do a, a, a, a creator show. I think it’s, I think it’s well, timed next is the annual expos awards, January 9th, also at the palladium, we mentioned Maitland ward is going to be the hostess, which is fricking awesome. Now I know you’re very involved in the expo is executive awards as well. So why don’t you talk about those?

Speaker 2 (30m 36s): Well, the exact words, you know, honestly, is it, I get really excited. It’s like, it’s a really piece of my heart because with the X is LA awards, which I love it’s, it’s huge. It’s the biggest award night out there, but it really focused on is a lot on the companies and the brands and, you know, and in that kind of realm where the exact awards is truly about the execs within those brands. Right. And so being able to highlight the movers and shakers of the brands to me is like the ultimate.

Like I just, it, it, it plays a big part in my heart. And so I get really excited about that. So, and then plus the fact that I’m at the exact awards, you know, the nominee then not, they’re all nominated by our community. And so that just shows how, how you and I were talking that the community is one big family, because when it comes to the exact awards, I mean, I don’t play a big part in terms of the awards team, but I do know that there’s tons of votes and, and people really get excited about wanting to recognize their peers.

And, you know, and you can’t say that in every industry. So, so it’s really special. And then on the honor side of it, as you know, the ex-business awards is, is very large. And if we had to put every category onstage, it’d be like a five hour award show. So because of that, there’s certain categories. And by then, you know, I’ll be so tired from when they complete other shows, but all kidding aside, there’s certain categories that we still want to make sure get recognized and, and deserve to be onstage.

So we select a few categories that we fall is very important to, to be recognized among their peers. And, and we announced the winners at the exact award. So, and that’s, you know, that’s a few days before the big award. So that’s

Speaker 1 (32m 49s): Exciting.

Speaker 2 (32m 52s): Well now, virtual. No, no, our, our, all of our award shows are in person. Yep. Yeah. We’re not streaming it.

Speaker 1 (33m 0s): Okay. So the ninth is the ex-business awards. The executive awards are when and where.

Speaker 2 (33m 12s): Oh, so the exact words are always tied into our LA show. So the exact awards won’t be yet, we’ll be January 5th at the show hotel at, they kicked in Everly at seven 30 and then

Speaker 1 (33m 26s): I didn’t see that. Okay. Very good. Well, thank you for correcting me. Okay. So there’s gotta be a COVID question because well, there does, and we kinda touched on this, but I thought I’d let you get in a little more detail. What health and safety measures are being taken at the, for events.

Speaker 2 (33m 50s): Well, you know, with Los Angeles, obviously we are one of the, I say the, the top, like percussionist, like I think we take the forefront in terms of safety for COVID

Speaker 1 (34m 9s): Let me write that down precautious.

Speaker 2 (34m 14s): So yeah. So we are, we’re going to follow the CDC obviously, and then with the LA show, the hotel, and again, you follow the CDC and then also it’s dependent on what the venue requires, right?

Speaker 1 (34m 29s): So that’s the LA health department, right?

Speaker 2 (34m 32s): Correct. So you do both. So, you know, we, we follow CDC. So for the LA show at the Kimpton, Everly, it will be vaccination or COVID COVID negative tests. And then with the palladium again, vaccinations are required based off the venue requirements. Yep.

Speaker 1 (34m 58s): Tuesday, next, next Tuesday. I get my, get my booster shot here in Thailand. Isn’t that great.

Speaker 2 (35m 6s): It

Speaker 1 (35m 6s): Really, it really helps them. My wife’s a nurse, but I have to drive to Bangkok damn. And that’s hours. Yeah. Well it’s okay. It’s okay. I got to go to Bangkok occasionally. What can I say?

Speaker 2 (35m 18s): Well, as of, let’s see, as of yesterday, everyone in my family is now vaccinated because we had two, my middle one now was once they opened up that the younger kids to give ActionAid find able to get her vaccinated.

Speaker 1 (35m 34s): I see you’ve been named a community liaison for pineapple support, which you don’t say broker proudly supports as a sponsor. How long standing is it? What Leah Tannat and her team do for our industry?

Speaker 2 (35m 46s): Oh God. Like I was just talking to Leah today, like hands down, like she, her and all of her, all of the therapist and everyone that kind of supports pineapple support and hurt her, her whole team is amazing. And I think she’s, she’s really kind of the trailblazer that said, Hey, look, this is what pineapple support wants to do. This is what we’re going to offer the performers, but not just a performance, just anyone really in the industry itself and, and have a safe place to go to.

And she does it in a way that’s so welcoming. And so accepting that when she asked me to be a part of it, of course, like that’s honor for me to be a part of it. And any way I can help, because, you know, I am in a lot of the forefront with the performers, from my shows to the awards to now X three. So I’m constantly put the magazine. So on a pretty much daily, weekly basis, monthly basis, I’m either talking to performers just as much as I talk to my client.

So to be able to offer that help if needed. Yeah. That was something that, that I just had to be a part of. So Leanne does an amazing woman, everything that she does, it comes from our heart. And so I can’t, I can’t speak enough about her. I mean, she’s such, she’s such a great woman, angel, an angel of the industry.

Speaker 1 (37m 25s): I can’t agree more. I can’t agree more. She might not agree with the angel park. And I just, I, I can’t agree more well, Leah, I can’t wait to see you at the Y that rhymed. Can’t wait to see you at the shows. And I’d like to thank you for being our guests. Once again, on the adult side, broker talk. And I’m looking forward to not only the shows, but getting a chance to do this again the next time around.

Speaker 2 (37m 53s): Yes, no. You know, I really enjoyed myself, Bruce, thank you so much for taking the time out to, to conduct this interview and yeah, anytime let’s let’s next time, think of a topic and let’s just, let’s just sit down and have a conversation about it. I’d be honored to come back onto the show.

Speaker 1 (38m 11s): You got it. My broker tip today is part four of how to buy a website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer. The work begins. If you’re working with a broker, like say, oh, I don’t know, maybe adult site broker, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counteroffer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them.

A good rule of thumb of course, is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day and any other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing.

You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask these pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself drop a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules. However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney changed. Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on.

Another thing we do for our clients is we do a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all of the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow. For instance, this can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties. We’ll talk about this subject more next time, since it’s the holiday season, we’ll take a break next week and pick up again on January 5th, when we’ll be speaking with Andreas Bischoff of the TES affiliate conferences.

Also adult site broker talk will be on hand at Xbiz LA and internext expo, Las Vegas, interviewing some of the people attending the shows. Special segments of adult site, broker talk will follow both events, make sure and join us for those special segments. And that’s it for this week’s adult side broker talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, Leah Mahi talk to you again next time on adult side broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Panos of Internext Expo, GFY and Webmaster Access.

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Our property the week that’s for sale, at adult site broker, we’re proud to introduce for sale. A hentai site network. The company has an Italian hen type pay site and the most popular Italian hentai free site plus a popular game pay site. The free site has Italian hentai comics and videos, and 52,000 daily views. The game site makes over 40,000 euros monthly. The hand-eye comics and video site makes over 11,000 euros a month.

There are also telegram channels for the sites that are included as well as a Patrion page. All of the sites have a ton of content and the traffic is mostly organic. No advertising has been purchased. This is an amazing opportunity for anyone with hen and game traffic. There is also all the necessary material to learn and manage the business included in the sale. Only 1.5 million euros. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site, broker talk is Panos from GF Y Internext expo and webmaster access Panos.

Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 51s): Thank you for having me, Bruce. How are you,

Speaker 1 (2m 54s): Man? I’m doing great. How are you?

Speaker 2 (2m 57s): Good goods. I mean, we’re getting for Vegas times. We’re excited has been through long three years. So

Speaker 1 (3m 14s): Wait, well, let’s, let’s tell everyone about you. Although I think everyone knows you, Panos has been a member of our industry for quite some time. And many of you do know him. He’s the administrator G F Y, and the organizer of webmaster access and the inter next expo. So Panos, tell us about the upcoming hybrid Internext expo in Las Vegas, January 14th, through the 17th at resorts world.

Speaker 2 (3m 44s): Yeah, so we had a bug in Vegas finally left two years. I’m very excited. The hotel is really amazing. I think we never had such a nice conference, just opening the sandwich, $4.4 billion investment. Look inside the, you know, fancy soaps, the cloud hosting the party on Saturday night.

So I mean the conference areas for seminars, for workshops 17. So we’re trying also to make it high, but it’s sold have like online elements and we’ll try to combine for the first time I think, and from whether we feel people are very excited to be in Vegas. So we have several activities planned comp and happy about having them back.

Speaker 1 (4m 46s): Yeah. And everyone is so happy to be back to live shows. It’s oh, it’s been a long time. And

Speaker 2 (4m 55s): I think it will take time though. You know, like people are afraid, people that have like, you know, other people at home like insurance, you know, have to be more careful. So they vent business in general would take some time to stop realize. And it’s not a one on the other side, like life in John, you do the best we can in terms of safety for all the other days. But also the events have Tenzing.

What’s happened though. I wasn’t saying that I love the industry recently and I saw a completely different vibe from the people as well. Not so much into parties, they were more into business. I think face-to-face is very important and there’s a different tendency. Like I met with people that I’m on Skype with them all the time and stuff, and then 10 minutes face-to-face with the business. So that year, you know, it’s a different and Z people miss that though, the online part, it’s also very, very interesting.

And I think that was a positive thing that came out only for us, not our events is pretty good, but in general, I think, and we’ll see all of this online conference booming, right? And I think a big part will stay with us in a way of satisfying different need for the people.

Speaker 1 (6m 25s): I think a lot of things that came out of the pandemic will stay. I think that less people are going to be traveling for business in the future. More people are going to be doing things through zoom and Skype and other online platforms.

Speaker 2 (6m 43s): I don’t know, but the less, what I think the format of the event will say, I think they will go to homework to an experience because for example, education, you can cover that part online much better.

Speaker 1 (6m 58s): Yeah,

Speaker 2 (6m 58s): Absolutely. Because you can have a speakers all over the world, you can watch the seminars and you don’t give the loser meeting. It gives you complete different as an organizer butters or something. You can get lots more. So this way, even for lead generation and with the online gives you access to people that usually they, you know, maybe they, they don’t attend the event. It’s not their core business, right. Or it’s too far, or they cannot travel for expeditions, maybe smaller companies.

They cannot justify the ROI to come to Vegas. It it’s not cheap. So for regeneration in English, for me too, when we did the first day WMA for me, it was a huge surprise because usually after all these years, I know 80% of the people that registered for conference and , I didn’t know, even 30% of the people. Yeah. And then it was like people from the industry, from all over the world, it was very nice.

And I think it was an amazing experience, mostly for them, you know, for us, we go to the events all the time. We are used to that and this, you know, the family feeling between us. Sure. But a lot of people from, for them to get the access, you know, to hear these people talk, you know, be able to make questions, book meetings with them, you know, learn it all. It was a revolution. We’ve amazing thing.

Speaker 1 (8m 28s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (8m 30s): That’s why we want to keep the hybrid format. The personally, I think now would be the first time. So it’s kind of better in nine WMA. We would have finalized the concept a bit more like streaming live stream. I think that’s the future because it gives access to .

Speaker 1 (9m 1s): Yeah. And I think that inter something interesting that you said about the live shows now that as opposed to a lot of parties and stuff, people are just getting down to business. And is that what we’re really there for anyway?

Speaker 2 (9m 22s): Yes. For sure. For sure. That’s the focus, the partners in the farm. So it’s a nice part and we’re like, you’re blessed to enjoy this thing. It doesn’t exist in other events, for example, when you go to the events, but then at the end of the day, it’s about business. It’s about, you know, finding people that can take you for that. You can

Speaker 1 (9m 45s): Make money. Absolutely. Yeah. And that’s what I’m looking forward to in Vegas. I’m looking forward to, you know, being able to see people I haven’t seen in a long time, of course, but obviously I’m there to do business. And I certainly plan to, I know the last time I went to internet, it was fantastic for business. And it had been the first time in a long time for me, I hadn’t been doing the Vegas shows since the early part of my coming into the industry Panos.

It was oh yeah. But I was just blown. Well, coming from Thailand is hard, but it’s yeah. It just blew me away how great it was even compared to what I had remembered. And what I remembered was my, when I first got into the industry, when Internext was, I mean, the, one of the, you know, really, really main shows one, maybe the top show.

Speaker 2 (10m 45s): Oh sure.

Speaker 1 (10m 45s): It’s thorough. It’s still a top show, but I mean, it didn’t have all that competition back then is what I’m saying.

Speaker 2 (10m 51s): Well, Vegas is Vegas, I think has a special place in the heart of many people. It’s good for business or the, that events happen usually at the same time. So it’s easy for people to travel. So this helps what a wait or shine away. This thing that they go like to out of reality, they’re a bit, so it feels you are disconnected far away from home.

So you got to be more focused, I think in a way, distract and focus, VIX Vegas. Sometimes you do events like in a city where like a lot of people from the industry, but then life in Vegas gives a different feeling. And we’re doing a lot of cool things here. And it’s the 25th anniversary at the end of the day. I mean, we have to celebrate that. I mean, it was a hard decision for us also the part they make it right.

We should, we do it or not, but I think we’ll go, people were so excited. They want to get together in the us, especially. So it will be an amazing experience.

Speaker 1 (12m 9s): I agree. And this is the 20th, 25th anniversary of internets. That’s great. Now how special is that milestone to you?

Speaker 2 (12m 18s): Wait that wasn’t from the stars, right?

Speaker 1 (12m 22s): Well, you’re only 25 now, right?

Speaker 2 (12m 26s): Yeah, exactly. I was looking at photos of the first thing next and stuff. It’s crazy when time passes and the industry changes. So in, but senses like positive, positive minds life. Right. But it’s for sort of special anniversary for us means a lot. And for the people that support the conference of this year.

Yeah. No, we’re proud of it as well

Speaker 1 (13m 4s): As you should be

Speaker 2 (13m 11s): Excited to go back, see France, what more than anything has been so weird, this people that we love and care. And usually we see every few months and now like it’s been here and people in this year.

Speaker 1 (13m 32s): Yes, yes. We’ve lost. We’ve lost some very good people on that. That brings it home, that we really need to see each other. And that’s one thing that, that’s one thing. Yeah. That’s one thing virtual.

Speaker 2 (13m 49s): No, it doesn’t. This part is a face to face.

Speaker 1 (13m 53s): Yeah. Well, you mentioned, you mentioned JFK. Obviously he was an industry institution. He passed this year. I understand you’re going to be honoring him at the Las Vegas event. Why don’t you tell me about that

Speaker 2 (14m 8s): Gathering for him, but also like for Beth, for Paul, for Allen, when people say I would advise, you know, I think we can do that. Then when these people build their industry, as we know, so Mr. Skin is also doing that, preparing for the event, proceeds will go to the family.

I think Steve Lightspeed is doing a fundraiser as well. And this is for who? For the four JFK nice thing that building something for is doing something for our lung.

Speaker 1 (14m 59s): Fantastic. Wow. Yeah. Fantastic. They’re good people. They’re good people. I love Sam and skin. Good people. Now that we’re back to live shows as an event organizer, how did you find the virtual experience where you overall, were you happy with it?

Speaker 2 (15m 28s): Yeah, I’ve been extremely happy to be honest. Like I think we we’ve was amazing. I mean the, okay first time here made was our first internet. I think it was beyond, we had like two kind of speakers, even more thing. I mean, it was insane. Like eight states is different, you know, thousands of other in DC. It was very nice to be honest, it was a bit more stressful than the physical ones Because they have, because they, you know, the physical, something goes wrong.

You can try to fix it. Or it’s a small thing, you know? Like something goes wrong in their party or, but in their own line with him, like three points of failure, you know, like technology security, like something goes wrong. I mean, there is no event taking the gun. Right? So this, this is a tricky part. I’ve seen some, the online events for labs.

Speaker 1 (16m 29s): Yeah. I’ve been, I’ve been speaking, I’ve been speaking at one, I’ve been speaking at one and I had something go wrong.

Speaker 2 (16m 35s): Yeah. It depends so much on technology and you know, one to things go wrong and can start everything that cannot happen in a physical event. Right. Like I I’ve been in events as you described competition or not. Didn’t make me happy, you know, because I know how much work these people put to make this happen. And it’s not no issue. No, no, no, no. The joke, but I mean, it’s, this is the problem with the online versions, right.

Difficult to break the ice a bit, you know, to, for some people, some others were more comfortable, you know, like it takes time for people to adapt to the format, you know, feel comfortable with it and get the most out of it. You know, in terms of business and booking meetings, people are booked 15,000 meetings, you know, virtual events, the numbers are impressive. And I really liked the ocean.

And I liked also that we can like see now, like everything, right? So we can see like how many meetings somebody can book. So we can provide stats to the companies to improve everything very transparent. They can see, you know, how many meetings they had, like how many people visited the rechargeables, which was always a problem in the physical conference. the conference. And online, we gave some students that do that, you know, for us and for the participants and for the company, so to improve and do better next time.

So this part, this part very nice. The educational part, as I said before, the lead generation, I think it makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (18m 26s): So I’ve noticed some changes over at G F Y for one thing. It’s well, I mean, I mean it’s, well, let me tell you what I’m talking about though. I find it’s more civil than it used to be. Okay. Before you took over. Okay.

Speaker 2 (18m 45s): Yeah. I mean, what cleaned it up? That’s true. Like, I mean, the politics have become a and when I understand the situation, the us was very heated as well. Yes. It was, it was butter should have gotten out of control. So You said it’s about the business, right? So try to, as you say, make them more civilized place. And we are at the final, I left at 21 years platform.

I think we have the oldest photo at this point,

Speaker 1 (19m 28s): Because why not? Because why not got rid of their got rid of their forum. So you guys are the oldest. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 36s): But so very excited. The new platform is amazing. I think we will open the bed now for everybody. The plan is in January to be fully operational because our plan is to make it like more of a interactive hub. It would be a big I this year, because if you think of it also like when’s, if I started, you know, it’s a huge extended side at the end of the day.

And back then, like the content was a text. Yep. Now it is the content is of text. We don’t communicate so much based on texts. So it will become much more interactive. I mean, I will, I plan is to make like an educational hub with live streaming. People would like a lot what’s coming this year. I think from January onwards, we’ll start rolling out new releases, a great big updates.

So, I mean, it’s going to become more like a portal less than like a forum. I mean the forum of course, but I think we need to have more business students on it and focus more on camping people in companies network. And do mommy,

Speaker 1 (21m 0s): I can’t wait

Speaker 2 (21m 3s): This one. So yes. Waiting for your feedback. And I hope,

Speaker 1 (21m 8s): Hey, if you want to run, if you want to run anything by me, if you want to use me as a lab rat ahead of time, as one of your testers before you launch it, I’m always available. Of course, of course you should know all that about me Panos. We’d known each other long enough family. Right? Exactly. What are the greatest challenges for an event organizer like yourself

Speaker 2 (21m 37s): After all these years? You know, the practical part. Okay. You know, it’s always a challenge, especially when you change locations of hotels. Okay. I mean something we can, you know, we monitor in the end, it’s not so, so difficult. And it seems, you know, depends, but usually not, to be honest, the biggest sentence is to find the balance between like small companies and big companies, new companies and companies that come many years. Like you have to make the event to satisfy a bit, everybody because everybody comes for different reasons.

Others towns to find new clients, others comes to shit like existing clients, you know, like a big company that has complete different demands, sort of what they, you know, they came from an event and, you know, to bring all these people posting much more well justified than like, you know, one person that I, I also go to events alone, you know, should to make a schedule and the balance it’s like every year it’s a bit different and it makes people excited.

I think that’s the biggest silence and the most interesting part as well. The part I enjoy, you know, people, people network, you know, create new business and new things. You know, if you have an interesting educational program, but it’s not like a sales pitch only, you know? So most of these there through the, the quality part.

Speaker 1 (23m 12s): Yeah. Oh, big time. Yeah, because you got other cars, you’ve got other, other promoters really. You deal with, you compete with, even though you work with them, you also compete with them. So you obviously

Speaker 2 (23m 23s): to be honest, like it’s a big industry. I don’t see this competition. Well, you

Speaker 1 (23m 34s): Don’t know, it’s not

Speaker 2 (23m 35s): That they would do the same thing. You know, like

Speaker 1 (23m 38s): It’s not a competition, but let’s face it. Okay. Some people’s budgets, they could only make a certain amount of shows. And obviously the most important thing is that you put your best foot forward. Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I meant by that. And you do, I mean, you put, you put on some fantastic shows. There’s no two ways about it. And again, I’m looking forward to this one coming up. Tell me about you got something new. It’s called the content creators. Cademy at the Vegas show.

What is that?

Speaker 2 (24m 11s): We’re wedding seminar, new concepts. One of them is the content creators academy by fancy revenue powered by crack. That will be on the 15th on Saturday with the WorkSource, for content creators, from legal to lights. I’m in very many different things. And the same streamer is also in the performance as well. It was going to be two days of seminars gathered to performers and content creators.

The industry sets in a way the content creators are becoming more and more companies going into this sector. So, and I mean, they, they demand more education with like last international land was the first time that we had like a performer states and we have over thousand 500 performers. And it was by far the most active because you know, maybe for us, the online people like we have so many years, we’ll have a lot of topics, but I show sense of demand for education from them, trying to understand how to monetize better, how to build their brand, you know, what is happening, new technologies from my next stage to crypto.

Yeah. So I think we want to offer more edge again, like stalemate and crack also like killed the load to build this now. And because I think it’s missing, then I think education, our industry is missing a beat. I mean, we need to raise the quality a bit in the conferences. I mean, the, I tell you like the last and show that we can do it, it’s possible, you know, from the speaker side to be more prepared, but honestly like the last year. So I was just saying that that was going to mainstream events and the difference in the educational part was huge.


Speaker 1 (26m 15s): Know,

Speaker 2 (26m 20s): The presentations they do. I mean, I think as an industry, we’ve got a bit behind And doing much better because we have so many people with dogs, you know, there is, it’s a bit difficult to share. Sometimes people aren’t the top for it. Anyhow, nobody will tell you like his big city that he’s making the money for me, that I probably with that. Yeah. People can sell a lot of knowledge.

We had amazing speakers and some case studies. So I want to go more and more into the case. Start the workshops that people can get really useful knowledge from the seminars. And that’s Asian. I think like we’re moving away from the live panels with multiple participants. I’m in four big topics. Yes. Makes sense. To hear different voices and stuff. But I think the gay start, the workshop presentation model, it’s much more useful for the audience.

Speaker 1 (27m 23s): Hmm. Okay. So it’s been a while since you’ve had a webmaster access event, do you have a plan for the next WMA?

Speaker 2 (27m 36s): I can’t do a steal done now sufficiently. I think we are. The plan is to do the first doubling your main Cyprus. Oh wow. That’s correct. Yeah. The first time I said public mercy. So I wouldn’t get a lot of questions, But we’ve been living with this a long time. I don’t think it makes a lot of sense. You know, Cypress has become a huge hub of the business of like very practical destination, like Russia.

It’s very useful people to fly during European union countries.

Speaker 1 (28m 19s): Not bad, not a bad trip from Thailand

Speaker 2 (28m 21s): Either. No, it’s so fun and nice weather. The hotel is amazing by the sea With love may, June and July. But yeah, let’s get fun, but also do a bit of business 40 degrees. Yeah.

So yeah. We’ll announce soon, officially very excited for it. Something different.

Speaker 1 (28m 59s): That’s awesome. Can’t wait. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (29m 4s): I think it will be interesting different experience.

Speaker 1 (29m 10s): One highlight of Internext is the annual GF. Why awards and how are the plans coming together for that this year? Oh, it’s not going to be an intern next. I’m sorry.

Speaker 2 (29m 23s): No, no, it would’ve been a WMA. I think it’s time to bring it back to Europe, at least for one year complaining for many of them how to fly to us. So thought the Gale, is it one, one time for people to come? So we’re going to throw a big party. Some non-banks we get surprised. I think for the next day.

That’s great. Now this time GFI party, Saturday, the 15th of January. So we’re going to do a different party there. I hope you come by and get some free swag and stuff at the birthday. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 16s): Have some are going to have some moves over there.

Speaker 2 (30m 19s): Should I bring some legal services for the break? So

Speaker 1 (30m 32s): Knock me out. So what tips do you have for someone attending an industry event for the first time?

Speaker 2 (30m 40s): Ooh, that’s a good question.

Speaker 1 (30m 42s): I know. Cause I asked it,

Speaker 2 (30m 46s): I think the number one deep is to come prepared, to fly very event, like, you know, take quiz, calming the other participants book meetings, or is your schedule, you know, sometimes you come up with an event it’s easy to lose track of everything and go back and realize like, you know, you could do so much more business. I mean, you also need to give a mindset that that’s it, you know, it’s still three days of an event. You need to get the most out of it.

You know, it’s not, it’s not that an online thing, you know, it’s sort of the time going to go back, you get onto the finish. It,

Speaker 1 (31m 24s): It goes, it goes by

Speaker 2 (31m 26s): Fast. It does. It does. Yes. So that’s why you have to be prepared to be organized and be ready to work the floor there. You know, like it’s not the, it’s not the time to be lazy or, you know, spend all day. It’s nice to see your friends too, but not spend all the time with them. You know, work the floor, go out, meet as many people as you can. At least known events. People are super open. You know, you can walk to anybody and say, hi, I’m the, this, you know, do that? Give your cards.

I mean, yeah, if you can do a sponsorship, but then if not still do business, you know?

Speaker 1 (32m 5s): Yeah. I can add, I can add a couple of that. Bring plenty of business cards. I can’t, I can’t tell you how, Oh, I can’t tell you how many people go. Oh, I ran out. I got a couple of thousand coming to my first stop before I get to, to Internet’s now will I need them for the show? No, I need a Manny white because my printers in the U S but the point is, and I also have lead cards and I’m ordering 2,500 of those.

And I always bring way more than I ever am going to need, because it’s better than running out and looking like an idiot. I’m sorry. But if you run out of business cards to me, you kind of look like an idiot as a business person.

Speaker 2 (32m 50s): Sometimes don’t be. So that sort of sometimes happens. Yeah. No,

Speaker 1 (32m 57s): But don’t let it happen. Oh, and here’s the other thing. Okay. If you’re starting to run low, run down to Kinko’s and have some more, a FedEx Kinko’s and have some more printed up, they probably have one at the hotel. There’s ways to do it. There’s ways to do it, you know, there’s ways to do it.

Speaker 2 (33m 16s): So does your site, so buses fast, you know, Vegas, but I guess people have to be as much prepared as they can. You know, that I, to put on the company, you know, putting some flyers, do whatever they can even small, you know,

Speaker 1 (33m 35s): Don’t be drunk the whole time. I can’t tell you how many people. I mean, pull up my first, my first couple shows. I’m like free booze. This is great. Well, free booze. Isn’t free. Okay. It really isn’t free. Don’t be tanked the whole freaking day just because there’s an afternoon happy hour. Okay. Don’t feel like you have to drink at every opportunity because otherwise you’re not going to get anything done.

Speaker 2 (34m 1s): And then, then it, to me, I don’t drink it. The social thought like I’ve told was to be the one that takes care of everything. That’s a joke. Say it’s impossible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34m 13s): I try

Speaker 2 (34m 14s): Not to drink. I know. I know what you mean. I know it’s a fine line there. Like people think time as well. Right. But as you said, like business is business and they look more professional and to the best out of it.

Speaker 1 (34m 28s): Yeah. I’ve fallen down. I fallen down and messed up in my more recent years. I mean, one night I just had, had a liking to some, some single malt, scotch and some good Spanish wine. And it was a disaster,

Speaker 2 (34m 45s): But

Speaker 1 (34m 49s): You can even learn at this age, you can even. So what are some of the highlights we should expect at Internext besides what we’ve already discussed?

Speaker 2 (35m 4s): the performance incentives by a steady rate. We’ll do like a party for content create or Saturday night. There’s a birthday party. Katie page to the hotel, the same dates whoever’s interested. We’ll probably do some, a NFL meet up.

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): You’re

Speaker 2 (35m 37s): Talking

Speaker 1 (35m 39s): Now you’re

Speaker 2 (35m 40s): Talking, but you know what? Who’s your team. I have to think about.

Speaker 1 (36m 5s): I love it. You’ve been involved in that.

Speaker 2 (36m 12s): I understand that. Hey, it was a man. He was the man. Hey,

Speaker 1 (36m 24s): You mean you didn’t play American football in Greece

Speaker 2 (36m 27s): Though?

Speaker 1 (36m 30s): I’m shocked.

Speaker 2 (36m 31s): All the copy. We don’t have this. Oh

Speaker 1 (36m 40s): Man. I’ve never played football.

Speaker 2 (36m 46s): This sport.

Speaker 1 (36m 47s): I’ve never played organized football. Trust me. I, I liked the way my, my brain also all stays in one spot

Speaker 2 (36m 55s): And stuff’s worth, I think we found a couple of hockey players. I didn’t know that. Yeah. I think oxen from crack was playing from ASAP.

Speaker 1 (37m 8s): Oh yeah. Well Tim’s Canadian. Of course he plays all the Canadians.

Speaker 2 (37m 14s): I seen it as a game on Monday. A cookie game.

Speaker 1 (37m 23s): Yeah. It should be fun. Oh yeah. That’s right in Las Vegas. Ah, it’s hard to re it’s hard to imagine hockey. And When they first talked about it, I, the talkie in Las Vegas and Phoenix, I’m like what? And I still, it still doesn’t make any sense because

Speaker 2 (37m 41s): talking about opening your throat a little bit. Well, they have one.

Speaker 1 (37m 49s): Yeah. They have one,

Speaker 2 (37m 53s): But not like the NBA.

Speaker 1 (37m 55s): Oh yeah. We’re also talking about, they’re also talking about moving the Oakland. A’s the baseball team to Vegas. So that doesn’t happen being from the bay area. But that might happen too. They’re talking about building a stadium there for them,

Speaker 2 (38m 10s): So,

Speaker 1 (38m 13s): Okay. And from the world was sports. One more question. Now you’ve been involved in this, the show for a very long time. Do you have any funny stories from Internext or for that matter from any of your

Speaker 2 (38m 26s): Shows,

Speaker 1 (38m 28s): Come on, come on.

Speaker 2 (38m 30s): And whatever happens then we

Speaker 1 (38m 33s): Can talk about, then we’ll talk about what’s happened in Amsterdam.

Speaker 2 (38m 38s): That’s even worse.

Speaker 1 (38m 43s): Awesome. Hey, you don’t have to say any names. You don’t have to say anything,

Speaker 2 (38m 47s): A lot of stories, but at the end of the day, what stays? I think it’s the nice moments you came with people, you know, relationships, you build the friendships, you build the event. The thing for me, memories, these are the memories, you know, some nice get together. Usually at the end of the event, when business is done and everybody can be a bit more relaxed, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I agree. That’s a beautiful part.

And yeah, don’t take more of your time as well. I think that’s what what’s all about. The conferences and the business and the workers. Well, you know, people make the difference. And he said, we lost some good people this year

Speaker 1 (39m 42s): And we do need to remember them. For sure.

Speaker 2 (39m 44s): We needed that. We were going to do a pursuit that I will come and drink for them and talk about them. Also. I want also to thank all the companies that are supporting the event in these difficult times, you know, they’ve in socialism said, we’ll take time to Nirvana is, you know, so it’s not the same. And the companies do their best and they understand this and they support because they want the people to get together. You know, without the events within that industry will get set up against $4,500.

Nice. And based on that, those are local people from the industry that can save me nurse. Like I’m there don’t show people that every year, the helpers to break like a grid. So bring the people together. So I would sit there, but it’s going to work very hard to the next one to do something. Nice. Thank you for your time today,

Speaker 1 (40m 48s): Carlos, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance. Hey, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again. Soon. My broker tip today is part three of how to buy a site. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you’ve either reached the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site. The broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years.

That’s up to date. If it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, get a username and password for the site so that you can review the content. Ask how often the site is updated. Get some history on the site, how long it’s been in business, the story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content and how much of it has current technologies like 4k, find out if all the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller.

If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the content is on. Find out how much the content costs to produce and what the current cost of the production is. Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the current owner, do they do the shooting themselves or do they hire someone to do it? And if there’s an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what is the retention rate on the site and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic ask for Google analytics access.

So you can see where the traffic comes from. This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. Then if everything looks good to you and you want the site, it’s time to make an offer. Only you can decide what the site is worth to you. If you’re working with a broker such as, oh, I don’t know, say adult side broker, of course your broker can help you determine the value of the site. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Leah Mahi of XBIZ.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Panos. Hope to see you at Internext Expo Las Vegas, January 14th through the 17th. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Stefan Haenel of FinXP.

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These women have created sexy profiles and uploaded photos to attract men and most of supply to government issued photo ID. These profiles can be imported into any dating or cam network. The network’s traffic is 91% direct and 8% organic search. They’ve never marketed to their lists or members outside their own network of dating sites. So that’s a huge opportunity for anyone interested in marketing, similar dating offers or other adult content and services sites were all fully developed in-house by their own developers, their main developers available to continue as a only $372,000.

Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today on adult site broker talk is to find, Hey now of fin XP. Stefan, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. It’s a

Speaker 2 (3m 16s): Pleasure.

Speaker 1 (3m 18s): Well, good, good afternoon to you. Yes, you’re in, you’re in Germany and I’m in Thailand, so it’s, it is a good morning. Good afternoon and good evening. Okay. So

Speaker 2 (3m 31s): The weather, right,

Speaker 1 (3m 33s): Don’t be so sure. So Stefan is the CFO and co-founder of fin XP. He’s an expert strategist with a strong business economics and finance management background. And with years of experience and equity, capital markets, financing issues and business development it’s to fund is committed to driving Finn PS growth through innovation, and by offering the best service oriented payment and banking services in Europe, fin XP is an award-winning European payments and banking service provider that is committed to empowering business to easily make and receive payments in whatever form best suits them.

The company is led by an experienced management team. That’s developed a holistic and integrated product portfolio. The clients and industry served are diverse, but Phoenix P is particularly committed to working with the I gaming crypto and adult industries. Fin P is licensed by the multi financial services authority and it’s licenses valid all throughout Europe. The company is registered with the European payments council swift, as the principle member of MasterCard, FedEx P stands out by offering a combination of integrated payment and banking services under one roof.

This is rare as traditional banks do not process e-commerce payments because they lack a deep understanding of e-commerce business models that I get all that rights to fund

Speaker 2 (4m 60s): Any better.

Speaker 1 (5m 1s): Well, I try. Okay. It must have been the announcer voice. So Stefan, what motivated you to start fin XP? No.

Speaker 2 (5m 10s): Well, w we have been in the exit exercise board of a public listed gambling company for decades. So my co-founder and I, and we won several court cases against the state and we’re not poly and lotteries in Germany. And we have seen the needs for reliable banking solutions. All of these industries are now added as well, coming on the pressure from the banks, from the card schemes, they are in the need for independent solutions. And this was basically the basis.

So we have done as this sexually, the fight against the state monopoly here. And, but we saw as bell first tendencies for financial blocking bangs, starting to support, of course the state lotteries, same license, then the private operators, but blocking them. And so we said, okay, there is a neat, and we have to build despite ourselves.

Right. So, and that’s how it all started.

Speaker 1 (6m 17s): Okay. So, so you actually are, are involved in an I gaming company.

Speaker 2 (6m 22s): I, I have been, yes. I was the CFO of a public listed gaming company, ah, for over 10 years old, we know a bit, at least from the, from the gaming side. And you can expose these into crypto, into editors as well. We, we know the problems of the industries, right?

Speaker 1 (6m 42s): Yeah. I’ve got a, I’ve got a branch and I gaming as well. I have to talk about that afterwards. So only fans plan to ban sexually explicit content, apparently due to pressure from banks and payment processors. Here we go. Only for them to go back on that decision. What can companies do to avoid this kind of pushback from financial institutions?

Speaker 2 (7m 6s): Well, first of all, what was a choose carefully, which means this to payment process or financial institution, you are intend to work with management owned. Yep. Are they blending an IPO? How does the investor landscape look like? Right. So before perform your supplier due diligence, and while even if they do not behave like that, they always remind banks, our suppliers, you are the customer, right. Sometimes you feel, it feels a bit like,

Speaker 1 (7m 33s): Are we really

Speaker 2 (7m 36s): Right? Exactly. But of course was you have all the rights to choose your partner and check carefully. Right? And, and that’s what we have seen in so many cases is Adyen, Stripe, and, and others. They do a lot, they are open to, let’s say the reputation of risk and then IPO blends come of course, on the desk. And then they start to de-risk in the sense of, ah, now investors will ask what is our core business, right.

And why God, which is not a good example anymore, but they’re always committed to, to these industries, right. And end were public. It was a core part

Speaker 1 (8m 20s): Of adult was a core part of their industry.

Speaker 2 (8m 24s): Exactly. And they, and everyone knew, and you have to be open with that. Right. And sure, except that some investors may not to then invest into your IPO. Right. But there are others who are looking maybe for, for margins, for profitability, but this is something you may need to, to do, right. If choose, choose your partners to see, because everyone who is investor driven, whether it’s B financing rounds every year, or at the end of the, the target to the IPO, you might be determined by external partners.

And that’s maybe one, one issue is about, and at Phoenix P we are, we own the company we decide, right. And that’s a different thing, and this does not exclude it. We would never may look for an IPO or whatever, but even then it will be us leading, leading the company because we are very profitable and we don’t need investors in the sense that we give, give out or give away control.

Speaker 1 (9m 31s): Sure, sure. Choose your partner carefully kind of sounds like dating actually. So why didn’t you, why do you as Phoenix P choose to support the adult industry

Speaker 2 (9m 45s): And what we have seen hypocrisy in the gambling industry and build of course, subsequently industry solutions that will work as well for the other industry. Right? So by banks are de-risking the reputational risk for, for my view, no reason. Right. We will take it as it is a management decision. Right. Which I previously explained. So it’s, it’s we decide and the solutions we build will fit perfectly and the industry, and we have, we don’t have these more moral issues. Of course it has to be legal and, and follow certain standards, but it has been around for four decades and, or in other words is it’s one of the oldest business of the world.

Right. So, and everyone does it. So I can imagine the, the bankers have these first-year bangs. They all have issues with the diversity in the, in the supervisory boards. Right. They are very often accused of not taking women rights series or paying the same salaries, all the stuff. Right. And you can imagine these investment bankers going for, for a big party in denied table dance club and, and delight. Right. And the next morning, the added merchant, right.

All these guys find in the glimpse in London, in the table, in bars and in Miami and LA wherever. Right. And then the next morning they declined adult industry a hundred. We can’t do that. Right. That guy’s okay. And then stay off to the gloves were

Speaker 1 (11m 12s): Well, are there, you know, they’re there. Hi Erin, hi, hi class call girls. And you know, let’s face it. They’re consumers of porn. They’re mainly men. We know they’re consumers of porn. These politicians are consumers of porn. So yeah, it’s it’s

Speaker 2 (11m 34s): Oh my

Speaker 1 (11m 34s): God, that hypocrisy is so deep. You could cut it. So what are some opportunities that you can assist companies in our industry?

Speaker 2 (11m 44s): Yep. All right. Well, we can support in several areas. And so why we do offer credit card processing. We have a lot, of course, alternative med methods that are designed to reach out to the customers, to consumers of all merchants. So the industry, in my view, of course, is, is very much driven from the U S right? So all the big players, they stopped in the U S and the U S is very much credit card minded. Right.

And even if we deal with visit the merchants, like in, in the, in the CBD area, we are at the moment we have just recently onboarded the large us player. They all think credit cards, the guys within Europe, even in the U S there are people who don’t have credit cards or who don’t want to use credit cards, especially if, if you look into debt and industry or gaming, they don’t because the wives, the statement, right. So they don’t want to go, Hey, what’s this charge,

Speaker 1 (12m 42s): What’s this charge for a hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (12m 48s): And so, so you have to reach out to them with other alternatives, right. And that’s what we, as well off our gateway has, which is a lot of laundry acquirers acquires, but overall it’s 350 plus payment processes, banks that are technically connected. Right. And so I will just talk maybe about some solutions a bit later, but this could be interesting, that goes with as well, some acquirers withdrawing from the industry, right.

You need to look into, to, to other payment methods, right. And apart from that, we do offer dedicated business accounts to support the increasing need for banking in the industry. Right. We have seen a lot of companies that are now they’re without bank accounts, or just lost some of their bank relationships because banks are saying, oh, no, we have had clients not directly from the end of the industry, but just to give you an example, we had a marketing agency in Germany doing a lot of, of course, online marketing, older, the search engines stuff, the social media.

So being very special and that, but doing as well of the good old stuff, like very high level magazines, right. And they decided to build a pore to, which was their first step into, into edit industry. But to build a portal where the goal girls can met predict deadlines, but, but in a different way, so a bit linked to Facebook and stuff, their bank first year German bank realized that.

And apart from that, if we’re just doing the standard marketing business, right. So nothing was added and which was the biggest part of it. But just because they started with the business, the bank terminated all the relationship. Yeah. It doesn’t surprise

Speaker 1 (14m 41s): Me. Right.

Speaker 2 (14m 43s): And this is something we, well,

Speaker 1 (14m 45s): That’s K that’s also running a foul of some of some laws in the U S with foster, which I’m sure you’re familiar with. So actually they are violating a us statute that the U S can actually come after them for, and if the bank facilitates it, I believe now I’m not an attorney, but I believe the bank blank be liable. And don’t quote me on that, but it’s possible.

Speaker 2 (15m 14s): Okay. I don’t know the U S legal system in depth, but,

Speaker 1 (15m 19s): And you talk to your attorney about foster sister. That’s one that you really do need to know about. Cause it’s pretty serious.

Speaker 2 (15m 26s): Okay. Yeah. So, so

Speaker 1 (15m 30s): Yeah. Yeah. So, so I’m not surprised the bank shut them down because if they’re doing, if they’re, if they’re doing escort advertising, then they are clearly violating a us law. And as you probably know, the arm of the U S AIG is pretty long,

Speaker 2 (15m 52s): But, but they were just doing it in that case, here, business in Germany, and no time, no ties to the us at all. So,

Speaker 1 (15m 60s): Okay. If that’s the case, then, then they, then they put maybe the day

Speaker 2 (16m 5s): I’m aware of advertising, it’s different, but this is just the de-risking on the reputation,

Speaker 1 (16m 12s): For sure. Absolutely. So you, you answered this partially earlier, but I’m sorry. You were, you were doing

Speaker 2 (16m 21s): Yeah. Just because not a problem. So we provide dedicated accounts and payments. Of course, if we even look into, if someone obeys it as laws. Right. But, and what we do is we do process payouts full and provide accounts to the industry’s content providers. So including debit funds. So what we have already doing is that we have, of course, the, the, the webcam services, right. And they even see problems in getting their partners, content providers.

Right. And that’s something we, we do when we could even provide demo accounts so that they get not from directly from the merchant, which then maybe might be blocked, but they get it from their account with us, into the account they have in wherever, in Europe example. And so then it’s a bank to bank transfer and the bank will not stop it because they don’t see the debater as the adult player. Right. So, and this is quite good.

Good, good service.

Speaker 1 (17m 32s): That’s a very good service. Actually. That’s something I’m sure a lot of people will be interested in now. Sorry to interrupt you. So you kinda, you, you somewhat answered this, but I’m sure there’s probably a more, more lengthy reply on it that I’m gonna, I’m going to let you go on, why is it the traditional banks don’t work with the adult industry, but you can support the industry.

Speaker 2 (17m 57s): Well, it, this is a short answer. We own the company, right. We decide, right. And we give you highly profitable. And so we do not need investors money and are free to, to decide. Right. And of course we focused on the money laundering risk, which is us key, but not on the reputation of risk. We mentioned already the hypocrisy in, in debt, we are not here to judge whether the adult industry is good or bad.

Right. It has to be legally, but then, well, it’s in a democratic, liberal worlds. This all should be possible, right? Yes. And if you look into, yeah, if you look into just my, my personal opinion that comes service, it offers women and men, of course, an option to earn, earn income, right. In a much, in a much safer environment. Right. Because they are at home. Right.

And they don’t have to meet the people. So this is to me, a much safer and cleaner weight. And so why not supporting that know if you would not support it, you cut off people who might be even in the need to make some extra money. Right. Like, and we want to, right. They are not forced to do, to earn money.

Speaker 1 (19m 19s): Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, if you look at the live cams and you look at the only fans type of site, the fan sites, the clip sites, I mean, this has been a lifeline for so many people that didn’t have work during the pandemic. And not only, you know, we’re able to get by, but they thrive excepted.

Speaker 2 (19m 42s): So

Speaker 1 (19m 42s): Are you worried that the whole war on porn is going to harm fin XP as a supporter of the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (19m 50s): Well, my previous company, so the, so the betting gaming company, while we won the war on game, on gambling in Germany. And indeed, because we, as I earlier mentioned to be won several very important court cases against the state monopoly. And so we can stand criticism and hostility. So, and again, we are independent and there always will be people in groups that try to fight against the way let’s say other people do business or live their private lives.

Right. There’s been kind of is this ban on ban and keeping exotic pads ban on driving ban on gambling ban on neurotic, why a ban on everything. So nothing that should be banned in a free democratic and liberal society. That’s fine. So of course we have to be careful. We have to take these movements serious and position ourselves against it. Right. And that’s something maybe that’s important. So stand up for, for, for, for your rights here.

And because sometimes the, the industries watch and going back into, into their whole thing. Okay. Did Von come that bad? Right. And you need to do constant lobby work as well. Yes. And I do have to point out the income for the people. The tax is paid, all this stuff, so right. Because no one really knows that, that it may have changed you to now a lot of the, the, all the Netflix, Amazon prime stuff that people are watching as well now, not to buy a TV, but, but why internet films and whatever.

But some years ago, I think 60 to 70% of the internet traffic was edit industry. Right. So there’s a market right there, servers, there’s it companies involved. There’s a lot of Texas. Right. So, but I think lobby is very important. Otherwise we may lose the war.

Long-term right. I agree.

Speaker 1 (22m 1s): I agree with you. Yup. By the way, I know that the German tax authority can be a little rough. You sued the government and one, how many years in a row have, have you been audited?

Speaker 2 (22m 16s): Oh, that’s a different story of my life. The, the two main courses up to high courts decision and the victory it’s took us five and four years to get through. Right. But as the

Speaker 1 (22m 36s): Tax authority come after you,

Speaker 2 (22m 40s): No, because this was not a text texting.

Speaker 1 (22m 42s): I know, I know in, but in, in the U S it’s, it’s kind of funny because if you, if you go against the government, the IRS tends to show up. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (22m 53s): Ah, to put some pressure on no. Okay. No, no, not at all. They, they are really independent, so there’s no, no linkage and yeah, this is,

Speaker 1 (23m 3s): It should be from your country. So besides everyone using Phoenix, P how do you see payments in the adult industry developing in the next three to five years? I kind of added the first part.

Speaker 2 (23m 17s): Yeah. So credit card and banking, of course, we’ll be under pressure for sure. We see now different Greece. Right? So it, the industry needs to develop their own ecosystem for banking and payment. In general, I see grip will play a significant role. Yes. Right. This would be engraved, but at the bank Bitcoins and other, other coins, or even stable coins did may establish more and more like you have the bonus systems bonus points Maya’s was, was out the airlines might and similar systems might, might work here.

I see solutions like our cash decode solution, right. Are being established more and more or volume-based offers. Right. Sure. And of course, part of our solution as well, consumers might choose to apply for an account service, an industry friendly institution like us. Right. So that that’s become maybe a bit light a bit, it’s a bit, our vision. And we have established is already for the gaming that you have the ecosystem where the, the merchant has an account, the consumer has the account, and then they can, can, and maybe even their affiliate partners, and then they can interact and failures in this system without leaking it, or just leaving it at some, some points.

And whenever the consumers make a payment or receive, it’s not for my gaming, it’s from us. Right. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24m 56s): And so you see the, what used to be alternative becoming primary at some points.

Speaker 2 (25m 3s): Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s

Speaker 1 (25m 6s): I agree with you. I would agree with you now, Phoenix P also serves other so-called high risk industries like crypto and I gaming. How has the adult industry the same or different to these other industries?

Speaker 2 (25m 20s): Adult has definitely a money laundering risk then gambling. Yeah. Which gambling ID not to be that high. It has been blazed there by regulators, right? For political motivated. Yeah. That’s why we have gambling as defined by regulars as, as being high risk for money laundering. Right. And offline. Yes. Casinos cash. No, no second opinion. Right. There have been so much money in there, but online it’s, it’s not the whole setup is for Dillon dot designed to support money laundering.

It’s more or less important to me because everything has to be done via credit card or bank account. Right. So you have to go be the audit trail. So you can’t learn the much. Right. And try to launder a million in the casino, right. With a nine 98%. So you have to, buildings are small. So you have to sit there for hours and weeks to get it in small launches back. So doesn’t make sense, but, and edit of course has even a much lower risk than crypto, right?

So from this perspective, it’s very welcome with us, Ms. Phoenix speed. And what remains is the, the fraud risk, reputation, risk, and the risk of illegal content. But this is all manageable. And especially as we have very scalable, highly automated procedures and tools, so this should not keep one and even not a bang from stopping the business, the issue is we have, so the very good thing was, was in Europe, the force ending AML directive, right.

Which raised or come up with the risk-based approach. Right. But no one is following the respectables. You, it doesn’t mean downsize or de-risk right. Downsizing your risk. It means know your risk and then define your measures. Right. That’s what, that’s what, that’s what we do. We see, okay. There might be a higher risk in certain industries, but to be, we’ll take them. But of course we have to do additional measures and be more careful then. Right. Right. But that’s the thing not getting rid of the risk, but adjusting your, your measures.

Right. Wouldn’t it be?

Speaker 1 (27m 41s): Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone thought of it that

Speaker 2 (27m 46s): Indeed, because their songs lay so many opportunities. Right. And then the banks are mourning on, on reduced profitabilities and right. Losing business that way, guys, if you don’t.

Speaker 1 (27m 58s): Yeah. They’re not making any money. I don’t, I believe that. Yeah. Yeah. I see there, I see their earnings reports. Yeah. Not exactly. How do you manage to keep up to date on what’s happening in the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (28m 12s): Well, listening to all existing merchants is key. Right. And then of course, attending trade shows, fairs focused on the industry or on industries and, and payments are like money 20, 20. Right. We always get the general trends. Right. You get a lot of inspiration and ideas. Y Y attending these, these shows, talking to your clients and again, listen, right. Yes. That’s how we developed solutions. Right. Because we see, okay, there’s a problem. So how can we then of course, even the, I need that the merchant has to listen as well to us and being willing to adopt the solutions or even changing their internal procedures or just software.

Right. So to some extent you have us, do you need to let us in to connect payment solutions. Right. Right, right. But that’s, that’s what we do. It’s about talking to people, listening to your sides. Guys, listen to the emotions, attending trade shows. Right. And that’s the way you do it. So

Speaker 1 (29m 14s): With regards to payments and banking, what keeps you up at night?

Speaker 2 (29m 19s): Well, I, I do sleep well. I do restore his 64 bloomers Richard Petty tribute car at the moment. So that keeps me up in the night, searching for parts sinking. Right. So it’s like a problem, but the car we now it’s painted about. No, you have to get to everything to get a ride transmissions engine.

So, but challenging, but a nice, nice project. But, but, but, but no, but seriously, with regards to business, it’s really the, the building of solutions for problems of certain industries, right? The, the payment ecosystem, I mentioned, which we have, have built there’s more to come, but that includes the merchants, their customers, and their marketing and affiliate partners. This is, this is indeed a key and dare, dare I say that off swords.

It even sometimes indeed keeps me up in the night by thinking about, okay, how can we do that? Or how can we do things faster? Right. Do elaborate more on the, on the API APIs of our core banking system. Right? So, because this is not like credit card processing, which has been around there for, for, for decades. And, and the technology procedures processes are quite clear to everyone.

Like this is new API APIs, new interfaces linked, right. And this is something where you have to spend some, some brains on that. And indeed, that’s something

Speaker 1 (31m 8s): You said, you got some things coming up, anything you want to share.

Speaker 2 (31m 13s): Well, as I said, so the, the cash to cold solution is a very good one. And the, the, our closed loop ecosystems, or having providing bank accounts for the mentions Vada consumers for the industry, especially they’re the content providers. Right. Which makes it much easier to receive the supplements and, and, and to allocate then the payments to your partners. Right. And, and this is already a bit there’s of course, a more so we, we have a very good way on the, on the, on payouts for the gaming industry, for example, but the other is so paying visit your bank account, right.

If something gets that’s upcoming, where you, you ideally zero balance on the merchant side and then can decide to do use this balance to pay a bit, a bit like a bullet. Right. But it will be backed by the, by the, by the bank, a bank account. Right. Of course it, it, it needs, it needs the consumer to apply for that. Right. So there is a bit of a, her Lynn, but the less we can use or to card and other methods, the more you may go into that.

And once you have it established, right. It’s, it’s there. Right? Sure, sure.

Speaker 1 (32m 29s): So what’s your vision for Phoenix P especially when it comes to the adult?

Speaker 2 (32m 34s): Yeah, well, of course, really, to get a much bigger footprint into this industry, like we today for, for gaming among all partners, Glines Dale are really first year players, and this would be division is better for the island industry to really get a strong footprint into that and, and to finalize and adopt our closed loop payment ecosystem for the industry.

But B I C S delivers tremendous support and to industry will as well, benefit a lot if they take the time to, to talk to us and, and as well to, to invest into their it systems and to connect to us. Right. So I think there will be a big benefit. Sure.

Speaker 1 (33m 26s): Now, what’s, what’s an important lesson you’ve learned throughout your career that you think is especially relevant to the people. Listening,

Speaker 2 (33m 35s): Listen to your customers, listen to your team members and all weighs half a fall back. And of course, never trust any bang. Right. And don’t worry, okay, let’s go top,

Speaker 1 (33m 49s): Top of my enemies list. So don’t worry

Speaker 2 (33m 52s): Indeed. Right. Then it comes to the lawyers,

Speaker 1 (33m 55s): Politicians, governments, yeah. Insurance companies, they’re all up there,

Speaker 2 (34m 4s): But the banks really have become a corporation, even for, in general for, for industry it’s, it’s a, they have become a risk for the economy, right. Because it’s not only these high risk in brackets industries, it’s even the mortgage layer. They have issues. Right. But, but maybe some, some more lessons, half your KYC in order to be compliant and even more transparent. Right. Right. So along the way, we have seen so much complex structures with affiliate networks involved in texts, vendors, foundries funds flows all over the world, right.

Don’t be surprised if a bank declined to obligation or even terminates under, if you have Hong Kong, Dubai, Cyprus island, whereas everything involved and then payments would go everywhere. Dollar is an issue, right. If you processing dollar, right. It isn’t in day because everyone who’s not as a bank needs the affiliate or the, the, the correspondent partner, right.

A bank in the U S right. And they have very tight rules. Meanwhile, what you can process or not. And they are all afraid to lose the dollar correspondence. So a strictly obeyed to whatever rule the U S banks tell them. Right. And this means that it will not risk the dollar facility for smaller business, or because they still do the, the, the, the big industry players, right.

The car manufacturers, general electrics and Siemens of the world. And that’s their business. Even not risk their dollar business for, for gaming or edit industry. Right. Right. And so, whatever you do, because we still get to get requests all, can you, can you do dollar and basically S but it’s real risk. Even your relationship with us, because then we as well need other correspondent and they will tell us, what are you guys doing?

So switching to the Europe.

Speaker 1 (36m 20s): Yeah. The KYC on dollars. Just ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (36m 24s): Yeah. And, but this industry is still asking, can you do Donna guys, you have a problem. Right. So don’t ask for one again, again, for one of the reasons why you have a problem.

Speaker 1 (36m 36s): Big time. Yeah. My, my country, anyway, what’s the nav course. I’m in Thailand, right? What’s the number one takeaway you’d like listeners to remember from this interview always

Speaker 2 (36m 51s): And have a fallback be compliant and transparent. And of course, blue bay was Phoenix. P

Speaker 1 (36m 57s): Wow. Very good. I think that was more than one, but anyway, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll let you off the hook. Where can listeners find you

Speaker 2 (37m 5s): WW Fenix speed.com. Well,

Speaker 1 (37m 8s): Stefan, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk, I learned a lot, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again, really soon.

Speaker 2 (37m 16s): Very open for that. I appreciate it a lot. And thanks for the opportunity as well as being here. Thank you. And thanks a lot.

Speaker 1 (37m 26s): My broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy and then establishing what your budget is next. It’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult site broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale, but if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can always act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site.

Other places to look are on the boards, but to be completely Frank, unless what you’re looking for is a really low end property. You’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course you could contact site owners yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living. It’s a major hassle, and it can be really hard to even find out who owns a site. Almost all adult sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar. So when you send them an email, it will be to an anonymous address.

And in most cases, the emails aren’t returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out, we’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week, we’ll be speaking with Panos of GFY and the Internext Expo in Las Vegas. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Stefan Haenel of FinXP. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with maverick UK producer Terry Stephens.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, internet.com. The ultimate internet domain is now available and we’re proud to list it. The domain gets 6 million unique visitors a month. This domain can be used for any of a number of uses. The opening bid is only $35 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and adult side broker talk is Terry Stevens. Terry, thanks for being with us today on adult site.

Broker talk, thanks for having me. I’m really honored to be here. Well, I’m honored to have you. I’ve been looking forward to this now Maverick producer, Terry Steven started out selling porn on VHS when the business was highly illegal in the mid nineties, before a chance encounter with the customer gave him the opportunity to make his first amateur movie. It was a couple of years later when he gained recognition as an amateur producer on the popular viewers wives series. From your choice in Holland, while still doing the round selling videos by mail order and door to door, I’d got him rated a two year court case in suit.

Meanwhile, Terry was gaining recognition with his new one. I Jack Gonzo series of movies that earned them a seven movie distribution deal to produce new movies for associates in the U S Terry teamed up with a partner and a launch wrist action entertainment. I love that name, a DVD distribution company, supplying sex shops across the UK. The problems with the new found industry gone legal had problems that required a constant concerted effort to set standards.

And UK producers was born from a chance gathering of producers to form an association under the name of producers for a pint, another great name everything’s about drinking their you cap. As it came to be known later was a collection of producers who engineered the much needed changes that were required in a largely unregulated business, which later found itself defending the right to produce adult content for sale in the UK and its numerous challenges from the RA teen online, 80 VOD and age verification.

At the same time, Terry was gaining momentum with his award-winning series, real couples, which was featured on Playboy’s sex cetera. And he was also juggling with productions and daily politics with performers and his commitment to the association, as well as staying ahead of all the changes that come with a business and a constant state of flux after years of being a secretary to the various administrations over a 10 year period, Terry became the default chairman for the full five-year term and oversaw the U cap awards from 2014 to 2018.

Since the pandemic Terry has been living in Bulgaria and continues to monetize his website. Sorry, Terry, that’s all the time we have for today. Nice talking to you.

Speaker 2 (4m 37s): Thank you very much. Goodbye. So yeah, pretty good. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (4m 42s): I do my best. So tell us about yourself and how you got into the adult business.

Speaker 2 (4m 50s): I came into the business when it was illegal to sell porn and made my posts through mail order and home deliveries. Before, you know, before that shark’s encounter with the customer where they asked me if I could find it, you asked me if I knew any couples that would make me want to make a video. Of course I didn’t because I saw videos, but I didn’t know a couple that were having an affair. And I told them about a friend who wanted to make a video. And I was quite surprised.

They said, yes, they agreed to do it.

Speaker 1 (5m 23s): And they were having an affair.

Speaker 2 (5m 25s): Yeah, I’ll have to elaborate on this a little bit more because I used to sell video from home and I used to do my, my, my selling, where could we to come into my home? So they’d look at the videos that they were to buy at this particular couple came to visit me one day and they said, look, you know, hotels are really expensive. Can we stack? Yeah. And I was like, this is highly unusual, but I was getting used to being highly unusual, some important times when I start meeting unusual customers.

So I said, yeah, man, whatever, you know, that had been a little bit extra. And because I knew that they were having an affair, I think it was probably why I asked them because it was a private video anyway. So I hooked them up with this other guy. He gave me his camera and I filmed them with it. I’d like to say that my career started from that moment, but it didn’t start till a couple of years later after the incident, he said he had no use for the camera and he left it with me. That took me about two years later, before I used it to film a girl who applied through an advert in an adult magazine.

And I really didn’t know what to do at all. I just knew that she was really pretty and others thought I’d be silly to pass up on this. So I asked a friend if he would be the stud for me. And he was like, what do, what? Why don’t you do it because I’m filming, what am I supposed to do? I can’t I at then, you know, I didn’t know. I wasn’t into the Gonzo thing. I was, I was like wet behind the ears. This is my first girl I ever filmed. So of course it was kind of awkward, but it was a nice meeting though, because when I, when I met her, I spent a bit of time asking her a question.

I was just generally curious why she would put an ad. What more would she answer an ad for selling videos to want to make videos? And she said, well, she thought it was a psychological thing. You know, people who sell it must make it. And I thought, now I’m powering this stuff, you know? Okay. I sit there, I found myself getting into the amateur film market then. And it, I was doing that for quite some time before, before I started meeting people in, in what was the beginnings of the auto industry at the time?

Well, yeah, I mean this, I think they’re the only real person that we had of any stature in the business at the time was Ben Dover because, you know, w we were still at a point where the industry was illegal. And I think we might’ve had some soft channels, like the adult channel, I think television X might have started at back then, but they were soft. So there was a whole different approach, but that’s a hardcore was highly illegal, but somehow there was an underground market if you like of people making movies.

Because I think there’s technology that facilitate that. I think it’s the fact that a lot of eight millimeter video cameras, but then came down in price and human beings being human beings will find uses for those, those cameras. And invariably it turns to sex. And I think back in the early days, most of the trading of adult videos was mainly done by swaps. So yeah, that’s the, that’s, that’s my, my early beginnings.


Speaker 1 (9m 2s): That’s your story. And you’re sticking to it. Okay. Well, and I think just about all of us got into the business by mistake. So, but it turned out to be a nice mistake for both of us. So what was it like selling porn back in the nineties compared to now?

Speaker 2 (9m 18s): Do you know? One of the things I, I tell a lot of people is from my own personal experiences, nothing’s really changed just the format. In other words, the principal is selling movies are still, you shoot it, you produce it, you sell it right. But then we were sending it on VHS videos, you know, these chunky cassettes and, you know, and, and nowadays it’s all file-based uploaded onto the internet and monetized to a clip site platform.

So that’s the format now, but there were, there are lots of other things that were different back then. We never had access to lotteries credit card processes. So we had to rely on cash and postal orders, which for great and checks, nobody remembers checks, but you can be used to get checked.

Speaker 1 (10m 12s): I remembered checks. I’m older than you are. I totally remembered.

Speaker 2 (10m 16s): Well, yeah. So, you know, we waited for the checks to clear so that we made sure we got our money because we never sent any of the goods out by mail order until we got our money. Otherwise they, they, they would cancel that check, which will probably be the modern equivalent of a chargeback. Yeah. Yeah. So back then we could avoid charge backs by waiting for the checks to clear. So when you think about it, it was better back then.

Speaker 1 (10m 38s): Yeah. You make, you make a good point.

Speaker 2 (10m 42s): I think a lot of things are more simple about that as well. I think that a lot of the business was out of sight out of mind nowadays, it’s just fallen in your face because of all the tube sites. Sure.

Speaker 1 (10m 53s): It’s everywhere.

Speaker 2 (10m 54s): And I think, yeah, and I think that’s, what’s causing us problems today. Otherwise the adult sites set up pay sites would be out of sight out of mind.

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. So when did you transition to couples porn and why, what did you feel? It was going to be more socially acceptable.

Speaker 2 (11m 14s): The transition to real couples came naturally on the basis of all my previous years. So I’ve worked with couples for the moment I started, but I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t shoot them as couples. I just shot them as boy, girl scenes. Right. But when I thought about it and we were starting to get a lot of no shows in the business at the time and my partner who jumped on board and moved before, about the time we did resection us, that it would be more practical if we just worked with couples.

And it made sense because that way that you’re not going to get one, not shoving. If there, if there are a couple, I, you gotta get boy, girl, so you’re gonna get boy girls too, because they live together. Right. So nine times out of 10, you’re always going to get shoot. So it made perfect sense to shoot couples and yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was, it was just a lot easier as well because the chemistry was already there. It just made everything easier. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12m 16s): Oh, that makes perfect sense. So now I gotta ask you this, what’s the deal with this alter-ego you’ve got naked truth guy. Now, how did that come about and what did you do?

Speaker 2 (12m 29s): Right. Okay. Nike chief guy came about, I think it was about 2014 when there was a guy called Jeremy Barnet who was campaigning against stop porn culture because we had people like anti-porn campaigners, Gail Dines, and Juni, Ben bull did conventions for people that was anti porn. So we,

Speaker 1 (12m 57s): I remember, I remember the protest across the street from the hotel in London.

Speaker 2 (13m 3s): That was probably the one we went to. Yeah. That’s pretty

Speaker 1 (13m 5s): Good. That’s where we met. Right, right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13m 8s): Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Cause there was a lot of people there it’s on YouTube, the video, but yeah, it started from there because I was merely just a camera man. Just documenting what was going on in the day. And I remember waking up on Monday morning and I think this was probably inspired because by, by a woman called Charlotte rose, who said to me, if you had a secret season to do a radio show, as you said to me, if you had a secret power, what would you want that power to be?

And I remember that, then it just came to me naturally. It’s just about the truth. Yeah. And she says, so your power would be telling the truth. I says, yeah. Do you know what? Yeah. I think it would be telling the trippy, cause there’s a, there’s a lot of lies being spread about porn right now. They’re trying to demonize a business that I’m in. I’m not who these people make me out to be. Yeah. So, and the no naked truth guy came out of that and I thought, wow. Yeah. So I set up my Twitter account as naked truth guy.

And I used that to talk about the, the things that I used as my commentary. So whenever I spoke to Google, like gal darn, she blocked me, by the way, you know, I w I was counteract their comments with the truthful comments. Like, I’ll say she said something, I would say, well, can you prove that? Because they can’t, they’ll come out with stop figures. Like, you know, for instance, the adult industry makes $98 billion a year. And I thought that can’t be, where did you get your fat shop?

And they don’t want to answer that.

Speaker 1 (14m 47s): Yeah. Got it. Very close by right out of their ass. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 50s): Is that, you know, and I called Gail Dines out because I was watching her, her what she was doing with her, her convention and some of the things that she was talking about because of how she was talking about sex addiction and whatnot. She was offering

Speaker 1 (15m 9s): Courses at $1,500. So I told her that she existed. Yeah. So you existed on the basis of flying an iPad tells or the adult industry. I said, in fact, you need us to do what you need to do for us. So you’ll make your money out of us. Isn’t that always the case.

Speaker 2 (15m 28s): Do you know what? She admitted that before she blocked me. She goes, yeah, you got my number, then block me.

Speaker 1 (15m 33s): Do you, do you think that the, the resistance to adult is any worse in the UK than it is anywhere?

Speaker 2 (15m 42s): No. I think there’s a, there’s a higher tolerance and acceptance to adult, especially with the public. My only problem as of late in recent, recent years, I think a lot of people now are starting to be a bit confused by performance calling themselves sex workers. Yeah. Because I think the confusion is, and I’ve noticed this because we started having problems within that industry. Now we’ve adopted that term sex worker.


Speaker 1 (16m 14s): It confused me at first

Speaker 2 (16m 15s): Too. Yeah. Because if you call somebody a sex worker, they might take offense to it. But it seems that a lot of girls, I ran a poll not so long ago. And I asked performance concentrators, you know, do you regard yourself as sex workers? I gave him three or four, three options and one, you know, open one so that he could discuss it below 75% of them came back. So, and there were sex workers and some of them were, were they’re mentally.

So defensive of it, they were offended that I wouldn’t see them as a sex worker. And so I said, okay, look at it another way, like take 10 civilian people. I want nothing to do with the auto industry civilians. Yeah. And ask them what comes to mind when you hear the term sex work, a sex worker prostitute. And yes. Every single time you get out here in Bulgaria.

Speaker 1 (17m 10s): Well, that used to be, that used to be the term for prostitute. That’s right. So, so tell me when, when did, when did the term sex worker start to apply to everyone? Including me? I guess.

Speaker 2 (17m 27s): Well, that’s the thing. I, oh yeah. I can. I, I’ve got a very good idea when it did start, because again, I think Charlotte rose fought for all of her best intentions was trying to create an umbrella term to destroy what she called the whorearchy. The whorearchy is something where, where certain people in the adult industry looked down at other people in that industry. But for instance, a glove on model will do a porn star and a bomb style look down at an escort.

And an escort looked down at the street and Walker, you know, they’ll, they’ll say I don’t do those sorts of things. I don’t do that sort of things. So you’ve got this division in the industry. What she said there was a problem at the time is that sex workers needed to unite on one issue because she was fighting for decriminalization of, of sex work right now, I think by blurring it, I could see what she’s trying to do. And like I said, for all intents and purposes, it was from the, for the greater good if you like, but ultimately I think by blurring everybody, there was no, there was no equality really, because what will happen is is that the people who could get bank accounts like porn stars and performers, because they can, they can claim themselves to be performing with add up performers.

They don’t call themselves porn stars or sex workers. Could you imagine gunshot bank and calling yourself a sex worker, but you went to a bank, but you went to a bank to say, oh, I’m an adult performer. That could be anything that could be a fire eater that could be, you know, a mainstream adult entertainment, you know?

Speaker 1 (19m 4s): So I wouldn’t even use the word adult with the bank because that’s

Speaker 2 (19m 7s): No, where does that lead? But I, I, but the point I’m trying to say is that there were more acceptable terms that they use to get a bank account. Yeah. And, and the, the differentiation was once just once everyone blurred themselves with sex worker, somehow the sex worker thing crept out. And suddenly now it’s a big issue with, with credit card processes now, because if you, if you link it to sister foster, what’s going on there, if everybody sees everybody as a sex worker, how do we know that some of you are not even traffic, correct?

Speaker 1 (19m 43s): Oh, assess to foster blurred the lines between, between pornography and, and prostitution.

Speaker 2 (19m 51s): Yeah. So that unity has cost us. It’s actually cost us our status basically.

Speaker 1 (19m 58s): Yeah. I’m I wasn’t really thrilled with it, but look, I’m not an, I’m not a performer. So if a performer wants, they want to call themselves sex workers, then I’m not going to tell them not to, you know, but at the, but at the time, at the time I was really uncomfortable with it when people started it probably about a year ago, I’d say, and I can’t say I’m, I’m a hundred percent comfortable with it now, but I guess it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (20m 27s): I think it can be filtered out slowly though. I’ve noticed that a lot of people who do call themselves sex workers, don’t call themselves sex workers. If there’s even TV night, for instance, I see them being interviewed. They don’t say so today we have having the studio. So-and-so, who’s a sex worker. They’ll say that they’re an adult entertainer or adult performer or whatever. So that they’ll, they’ll give them a more acceptable title. I think TV does that specifically because they know how toxic term sex work risks are in the studio to Toby.

Because at the moment you say sex worker is practically assent to the public, she’s a foster child.

Speaker 1 (21m 3s): Right. Right. Absolutely. So, so, oh, go ahead. I’m sorry.

Speaker 2 (21m 9s): No, no. Sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Okay. So I love talking to Brits with carry on and shagging and oh, the British Axiom sys it, it, it, it always amuses me being an American who doesn’t really speak English.

Speaker 2 (21m 24s): I know you can see why Austin tower did so well in America.

Speaker 1 (21m 28s): Oh my God. I love those movies. Yeah. Maybe. How has the current only fans phenomenon impacted your business?

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): Now everyone’s got an only fence account and none of them don’t feel they need to work for producers anymore. So there’s a certain arrogance that comes with that. So if you say, oh, I’m looking to book somebody for a scene, they’ll inflate their price because they just don’t want to work for you. Right. Or, you know, I mean, I, I spend a lot of time talking to talking to an arguing with performers who are friends of mine, you know, and I we’ve caught onto you now, you know, you know, we, we know how much money could be.

Then you’ve been denied that for such a long time. And I thought, well, no, the industry was what it was before, because we know exactly how many sales we made. So the rates of pay were kinda dictated because you had, you know, producers have to have a budget when they’re making a movie. Correct. Yeah. And on that budget, you have to have a return on investment. That’s what a lot of performers don’t seem to understand. All this stuff is just basic maths. Wow. So, you know, the rates are paid well, what they were, because that was the size of our market.

You know, we didn’t pay as much as America because we don’t sell the amount of units that you can send in America. We’re not as bigger landmass market as America. And not only that, we’re still seen as a little bit. We’re not, it’s not illegal. There was a, there was a, there was a legal adult industry in the UK, but you know, there are various government quangos over the years who kind of didn’t want to get their fingers dirty, but you know, they’d kind of dip their finger in to say, well, we’d have to moderate you.

You know, you can’t do this, you can’t do that. And I think that kind of bred a sense of censorship in like, well, how are you to tell people who are in the lifestyle, how to have sex, you know? But anyway, back to LP. Yeah. It, it affected the, the, my business anyway, because a lot of people just started doing it for themselves.

Speaker 1 (23m 40s): Yeah, no, no doubt about it. So you’re one of the founding members of a, you cap the association for adult producers. Why did you set up an association specifically for producers and what does it do exactly.

Speaker 2 (23m 57s): This was at a time when porn just became legal and to the year 2000, as you mentioned earlier on, when you first started out, we first met up at a convention called erotica, which was a massive event at Earl’s court. We all stayed in the same hotel and it was a great time because a lot of people started putting faces to names, think of it like experts, if you like, but it was like a lot more smaller than that between us producers.

So we’re all staying at the same hotel. We meet up in the lobby for breakfast and, you know, we’d get shot. And anyway, the course with producers, it always invariably gets round to the business where we love talking about business. And, and we, there were, there were problems that needed to be addressed at the time. And we felt well, no, I, I used to always say at the is no, man is an island unto themselves. So the food going to make any changes, don’t you think we’d make it as a bigger voice together.

Or we could go out that way and try and do it singly. Every time people single-handedly tried to bring about change, nothing ever happened, because nobody ever wanted to hear a single voice. But when you had a whole bunch of people said, Hey, come down to this meeting. There’s 30, 30 producers waiting in this room, want answers? Somebody would say, well, get your jacket on. Then I’ll, I’ll be attending that meeting because they’ll feel that they have an audience of people to speak to. And at the time there were, I would say the luminaries of the adult industry at the time were there.

And we were able to discuss amongst ourselves votes amongst ourselves, you know, and we came to conclusions and then we affected the next move. We had people down and we made changes our biggest one, massive one, very cataclysmic one actually was in 2004 when Darren James infected six models in the us industry.

Yeah. That impacted the adult industry is since shockwave even to the, to the UK, because some of our best performers in the UK came back and they were horrified. They were shell shocked. And they were yelling at us producers that we need to change. Staff change the standards in the industry from three months tests to one month. And at the, not many people remember this, but yeah, we only used to ex expect tests within three months, every three months.

So she had to go about, well, yeah,

Speaker 1 (26m 47s): Because you don’t want to damage in three months. Oh

Speaker 2 (26m 50s): Yeah. But you know, but then the asteroid already hit, you know, the reality came home to us with that because we were thinking that the incubation period for HRV was three months. So I can really get our test every three months. Well, to be honest, it wasn’t, it wasn’t, there was no regulation. People just made that rule. That that was the logic I’ve got my test. How long have you got it? Oh, it’s still within three months. Okay. You can work. But then when we, when we had a meeting with producers and performers, that’s when we universally agreed that it had to be done every 28 to 30 days back then.

Yeah. And then we also had the smarts to bring in the clinics as well, to give us their professional opinion and to be fair, the clinics only used to test every three months for free. But because of the adult industry, they did a special deal with us to say, okay, we’ll create these gold cards for performers to get tested so that we can identify performers in the industry who need to be tested every month.

So, yeah, that was our first victory as, as new cattle producers later on, of course we, every time we came, we only had four meetings a year. So every producer would bring any of their issues or discussions to the meetings. And we’d we’d have meetings with, or day trips out to people at the BBFC who would discuss how they make their, their cuts for adult on turn, or we’d have guests from, from liabilities, employment and liabilities.

Because one of the, the next thing that we were concerned about is that producers didn’t feel they were liable for anything refill. No, no, that’s it. Guys. You need to understand that if we’re not illegal, we have to conform with what’s legal term. That means employee liability. So somebody trips over in a lie and you’re set, what’s going to happen. We’ve had numerous accidents in the auto industry that just went unregistered. And we’re lucky that no one’s ever sued a producer.

Speaker 1 (29m 4s): Really?

Speaker 2 (29m 5s): Yeah. We’re lucky. Yeah. That no one’s ever sued a producer.

Speaker 1 (29m 9s): I think of anybody. I think if anyone did and it wasn’t something very serious. I think they’d probably have a little trouble getting work. I think that’s kinda the way it works.

Speaker 2 (29m 19s): Yeah. There is that. But I think there was some, some people just, just took it on the chin just because it was an accident and it wasn’t their fault. I mean, I, I, I know that a guy broke his Dick on my scene once, but the thing by the interesting thing is

Speaker 1 (29m 33s): Just hearing it.

Speaker 2 (29m 35s): Yeah. No, but you know, try as you might, you know, there are adult do our insurances that do cover aspects of the adult industry, but they do not cover anything to do with interest injuries related to production, which is interesting because the mainstream industry has industry liability insurance to protect mainstream actors because it’s a bigger industry. There’s more legitimate, but then if we’re not illegal, why can’t we be allowed the same thing?

They, they won’t underwrite a porn film for that ship, even though it’s not illegal. Hmm.

Speaker 1 (30m 13s): Yeah. That’s the old double standard. We know how that goes.

Speaker 2 (30m 17s): Well, yeah. Again with you Kat, we were trying to challenge people’s thinking. Yes. Yes. And I think we, we, we started making a collection of very influential friends and people who provide us services in the industry. So we became a hub for all that. Right. So we, we, it’s not, so later on, in recent years, did, did we invite more guests to the meeting so that we could understand the industry better or for people to understand us better?

Right. You know, like, like, which was probably a little bit unusual, but we had somebody like revenge porn online. I was trying to tell people that the reason why you have your model releases, one of the things that drew me to producers is the importance of how they model releases and, and not just model releases to correctly word it, model releases, you know, the, one of the stage named one of the real name and the address and the date of birth signed, and also the words for, you know, the ownership of the material.

You do understand that it is owned by me. I can profit from this blah, blah, blah, whatever I said, you need to have those. I said, it’s

Speaker 1 (31m 28s): To be written by a good attorney.

Speaker 2 (31m 30s): Well, nobody ever paid for an attorney back then, except I was dealing with a few companies that I was shooting with and I managed to obtain proper legal, right. Legally written releases and adopted that into my standard release. So I’ll ask to people that my, my ones pretty much ironclad because I’ve had it re read by a lawyer, answer that. Yeah. Okay. It’s covered. I’ve had various incidences where I had to provide my paperwork and it kept me at a call because of the wording.

Exactly. So, yeah. So I would run into people, the importance for model releases.

Speaker 1 (32m 12s): Absolutely. You were also involved with the U cap awards. Now, what made you decide to get into that and how did it work out for the businesses

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): Right now? This is interesting early on in the cap years early, you kept years. I just had, I just didn’t believe in the awards. I just didn’t understand them. But to be honest, when it, when they did do the first one, I kind of kept away from it until I got the call from one of the members. So not very, you have to turn up to the why the, and I said, because you one, all right. And I said, but you know, I’ll have to tell you that because I’m wondering what you want to get you there.

Okay, fine. Fair enough. When I turned that, you know what, the, the night was really impressive, he’d done a fantastic job. It was Phil black organized the first, I mean, he was a member of you cap, but it wasn’t called the new capital wars, but it was called catheter. So it was the UK adult film and television awards, which is quite clever. Right. Because what he did, he also included adult in mainstream. Right. So you’ll see in the news, it’s still there. If you look, look for it on, on a Google search, you will look for you capita, you’ll find a Wiki page.

I’ve done it, who put that together, but somebody did. And, you know, I remember back in the day, the, a couple of name is now Benny, that she’d done secret diary of a call girl. And, and that was like the big series at the time. And that one of award. So I could see what they’re trying to do. They were trying to merge the adult industry with mainstream adults. But that makes sense smart. Yeah. It was a marketing thing, really just to help, to help elevate the industry. But then, I mean, I didn’t get that back then.

And so afterwards, when I saw the impact of what it did, right. And I became a fan after that, but I still know I, but the way I look at the event, wasn’t my event. It was Phil Black’s. He had done the first three events. Right. So when it, when it came to my time to take over, you cap off, it was about 2014. We D we kind of did it because I was kind of pressured by Jerry to do an event for experts because they were there to attend the party.

And Jerry said it would be a good idea to have something a bit more substantial than just a party to drink. Let’s have, let’s have an awards for, for, for them to enjoy. So I thought, okay, so I’ll do, I’ll do the about eight categories. And when I was doing that, I started a real, I started believing in, in, in what I was doing. I saw the potential for look what we’re doing here. We’ve got Americans over here from X beers. Okay. And we’re presenting winners. And I remember that the winners did go on to bigger and better things.

At the time they were kind of stuck in what I would call suspended animation. They, they worked in the business for amateur producers, but that was about it. After that they were working in Europe and traveling around. And I know one particular girl was doing particularly well, actually, no, they all did well. They all did well from then on, I mean, I wouldn’t take any credit for that just because of the awards. I mean, they had to go out and get the work and still be a success.

But you know, what, what I saw was the potential to elevate our business and raise profiles. Right.

Speaker 1 (35m 44s): Right.

Speaker 2 (35m 46s): And I realized that it could be a promotional vehicle for all those involved with the business, not just producers, but the health services. Everybody involved. Yes, absolutely. It’s the one time, it’s the one time where everybody in the adult industry, whether they like awards or not do a pay attention. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36m 5s): Now, now, have you got any thoughts on why mental health issues are more on the rise in the business?

Speaker 2 (36m 12s): Yeah. Two words. Social media,

Speaker 1 (36m 16s): No kidding.

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): It’s not just social media though. There are, there’s a lot more pressures on performance these days to succeed, even though they’re doing well on their only fans, I’m finding a lot of girls are just breaking down from dealing with the demand, dealing with the demand of fans, dealing with the demand of the work. They have to put out promotion shooting as well as having a life. Well, as well as beautifying themselves, what does, you know, raising children? Because people forget that, you know, some of these girls do have children as well.

They have families to feed. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it all weighs in on them. So yeah, it can be very difficult. Social media is another one because I see that as a blessing and a curse. I think social media has replaced the mailing desks that we had back in the old olden days. And, you know, it’s convenient now because you can tweet out there and people come to your site and they can sign up and it’s, you know, that’s great. But you know, there are problems that the other side of it, of that coin is that, you know, you’ll get trolls, you’ll get people wanting attention and psychologically, it kind of breaks a lot of girls down.

So not girls have a, not to deal with this, especially with social media. I mean, there was a particular incident that, you know, there was a time when we was losing a girl every month in America, particularly. Yeah. That’s right. And, and most of that was around social media. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 50s): That was before a pineapple support got started. In fact, I was, I was, I was interviewed on, on their podcast a couple of nights ago.

Speaker 2 (37m 59s): So yeah. I mean, I interviewed layer tenant as well because I’ve worked with understand a bit more about pineapple support because being in the UK, I was trying to get people over here to understand the importance of mental health. But the good thing about what pineapple support are doing is that it’s adult industry specific. Yes,

Speaker 1 (38m 18s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (38m 20s): Because a lot of charity organizations, I mean, I’m not, I’m personally not trained to deal with this, but I’ve had to deal with the phone calls at two o’clock in the morning from a subject girl. And I’m thinking who’s this. And I heard him crying and sobbing said, I’m sorry to call you Terry. But you’re the only one I know that’s up to this time in the morning, you know, I just need someone to talk to. Yeah. By all means go, what’s ma what’s about to go, you know, and they’re telling me, you know, whatever their issue is. I think sometimes just girls just want and listening air and they just don’t trust anybody else to, to, to listen because that’s a

Speaker 1 (38m 58s): Compliment. There was a stigma, that’s a compliment.

Speaker 2 (39m 1s): Well, a lot of girls now I talk about a lot of deep stuff and it’s not just the girls. I help. I help you guys as well. I think a lot of guys don’t show their emotions very well. So, you know, it’s, it’s a big deal to me when a guy decides that I’ve got something really personal to talk about. And you know, it’s not the easiest thing to talk about. It’s not easy as a male to talk about. You’ve been assaulted by another guy, you know, that it’s not easy. So, you know, I had the bind, I understand the darkness with that goes on in as well.

And I’ve come to the conclusion that are not people’s problems in the industry is not even to do with the work itself it’s to do with the outside world.

Speaker 1 (39m 42s): Yeah. Yeah. No social, social media, social media gets so toxic, including some of our own social media. Sometimes, sometimes the, some of the people on X, because it’s just incredibly toxic. I had one, one such case last week and which, which has an ambassador, you may be familiar with we’re we’re as we record here in early September, by the way. But no, it’s very toxic and people have feelings and some of these keyboard warriors don’t realize that and they just tear people shred to shred, and then they just go on with their day.

And it’s just, I don’t know. I don’t know what the answer is

Speaker 2 (40m 27s): Usually. Well, the anonymity of it all makes it easy.

Speaker 1 (40m 30s): Sure, sure. The problem I had was a guy who doesn’t even use his name. You know, he, he uses it. He uses a handle, which, which I know a lot of people in adult do, but it doesn’t make it any easier.

Speaker 2 (40m 45s): Yeah, no, it doesn’t make, well, you say it doesn’t make it any easier, but now you know that people are hiding behind it. And number two, it should help you understand thing. Do you know what I mean, naked truth guy. I had to set up as a separate name because I used to get into arguments as you can, because a lot of people didn’t trust. You kept in it’s early days. They thought we were, the thought has been, we’re some kind of consortium of producers trying to control the industry.

And we had all kinds of expectations of the liters and everything. And it got to the point where I was being defensive and some people would just get downright nasty. Now people say that I get into arguments. But one thing I refuse to get into is being downright nasty. I will not get downright nasty and I will not get personal. What I will get is eloquent. So if I’ve got to attack you, it’s going to be on an intelligent level.

Speaker 1 (41m 41s): You are so British Terry, you are so British. That’s one. That’s one of the things I love about the Brits, by the way,

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): It’s one of the things I love about the Brits as well. Is that how they can eviscerate you with just words?

Speaker 1 (41m 53s): Yes. Yes, indeed.

Speaker 2 (41m 55s): Indeed. And I think just a well-placed word will just destroy you. Whereas another person will, I mean, I’ve seen people who started out as bodies be broken in half by not being able to answer back to something that’s intelligent.

Speaker 1 (42m 12s): Well, I do a lot of this. I do a lot of the same, you know, I’ll, I’ll respond back to people in a very intelligent and well thought out way. And yeah, they don’t know what to do with that because they’re not, they’re not used to people being taught.

Speaker 2 (42m 28s): I tell you what it all comes back down to the same thing. Isn’t it all, very art of war by some SU sorry.

Speaker 1 (42m 35s): It’s what,

Speaker 2 (42m 36s): It’s all very art of war by sun suit. <inaudible> yeah. Okay. Now when you look at yeah, a lot of the philosophies that he had in that book was quite amazing applied to the way life is today. But if you want to, if you want to agitate your bully, yeah. I’ll be, I’ll call it the same. But anyway, but if you entertain your bully and they resort to getting personal with nasty words, they’ve lost the battle. As we battle this one before it’s fought is another one. That’s it’s true. Every bat and this one before it’s full.

It’s very true if you think about it. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s what I love about the art of war anyway. But every time people talk about Twitter and arguments, it does remind me a lot. I said, if people read the art of war, they will understand how to deal with people and trolls on social media, some people, oh yeah. It’s, you know, it’s not a very big book. It’s not very long book, but it’s got some great stuff in it. It it’ll make you think, do you think, Hey. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So that makes sense. It will help you be a bit more strategic in your approach to speaking to people. So sometimes if somebody’s having a go at you just let them have a go at you and then wait a minute. Are you done yet? You know? And then, then that’s when you can hit them with the facts.

Speaker 1 (43m 59s): Oh yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, my use of social media these days is pretty much limited to business, a little bit of soft Twitter and soft Facebook personal, but I got into Facebook heavy and Facebook kept, helped convince me that I don’t want to be there. So anyway, so it was a time-waster anyway, my God. So what are the differences between the indie content producer and the current content creator?


Speaker 2 (44m 31s): Going to say there’s no difference between the two. I mean, our started out as what we would call back in the day as a semi pro and then I became Pro-Am. Yeah. And we, we had less terms, but then, I mean, in porn people might’ve called me a console producer. Nowadays I’m hearing people being called content creator. And I think this is a corporate word for corporate work. Corporations don’t want to call people porn producers.

No, because they’re trying to take away that then they don’t, it’s not that they don’t want to be associated with it. They’re just trying to clean up the act a little bit and make it a bit more presentable. Sure. Yeah. So they came up with the term content creator. It was a general term for people who create content. Right. Well, I mean, I can name drop here. Only offense is probably the biggest one behind that because they tend to, they tend to promote people who are content creators. Don’t do adult. So what they’re trying to do is now of accessibility.

So when they’re promoting it, they could say, Hey look, you know, we’ve got people who are doing fitness training, cookery, painting music, playing the piano. But behind all that, take a quick look around the corner, 72, 9 or double penetration. It’s like, you know, oh yeah, they’re content creators. But we don’t talk about that.

Speaker 1 (45m 58s): Now that doesn’t, that doesn’t, it doesn’t fit their corporate profile at all. No.

Speaker 2 (46m 3s): Well, and for good reason, because they are a corporate, there they are. They’re almost like a clearing house for money to go through. So they don’t really cook. No corporation wants to be seen like that. I can understand that I get it. They want it, they want to clean up the face of it, but they recognize that they’re also making a lot of money from that Jodie word sex workers.

Speaker 1 (46m 30s): I was just going to say, and their, and their content creators are calling themselves sex workers. It’s really kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (46m 37s): Oh yeah. So you could see the embarrassment that is like, so could you imagine that a convention with MasterCard and visa getting together with only fans at a nice swished dinner and they’re all say, ah, so you have, you’re dealing with these sex workers. Are you and only friends kind of being a bit embarrassing? Well, yeah, they bring in a lot of money and they don’t mean any harm. You know, they’re doing their thing. Oh yes. But they’re still common prostituted aren’t they, you know, you can almost, you can almost hear it at the dinners already.

You know? And it’s funny because I, I did deal with a merchant banker. One of, one of our members that you kept as a merchant banker, we asked what, what exactly is this problem between while we, while we are denied certain financial services and he tells us this one simple answer, he says, because the banks just don’t have an appetite for adults. If the truth be known, most of their wives, most of the wives of these executives behind financial companies don’t want them getting involved in that,

Speaker 1 (47m 40s): There it is. There it is. Or their churches.

Speaker 2 (47m 45s): Well, yeah, churches very rarely mentioned in the UK and this is something that’s very American. You know, that the sadly in the UK, the churches seem to be a little bit more understanding that, you know, we S we understand that people like to masturbate over these things and they will have a sex life. And they realize that they don’t want to become unpopular by being old fuddy duddies. Right. So, you know, but so they’ve got to promote the whole love and marriage thing as the proper way to do things. But, you know, they’re a little bit more understanding.

There’s just so much stuff out to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (48m 21s): So how real are the couples on real couples or is it just a concept for generic boy, girl movies?

Speaker 2 (48m 30s): Oh, they’re all real know. This is interesting because people in the industry tend to think that, oh, that they could just come along and just do real couples for me. And I’ll say, no, sorry, a little bit interview partner. Oh, we only met up about a week or so. It doesn’t count. That is it really, you’ve got a history between you. There’s nothing to talk about. It just, you might not be together in six months time. I said, look, and they say, well, what difference does it make?

We’re a couple, I said, you say you’re a couple, but the people I said, what are some of the things I’m going to talk to you about? Cause it’s not just about the sex scene. It’s about how you are. Do you live together? You know, all these little, all these little things that make up a relationship, you know? I mean, I think you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re adult relationships in the industry are just as valid as the real world, because you are people from the real world. Right. Otherwise other people just don’t see it as just another porn scene and, you know, porn scene with porn, people do important sex.

I said, yeah, I don’t really want that. I want, what, what, what real sets? Yeah. They said, well, what’s that mean then like 10 minutes sex and then roll over fart and go to sleep. Do you need,

Speaker 1 (49m 46s): Do you direct the couples? If they’re porns as if they’re porn stars? No.

Speaker 2 (49m 50s): Oh, I don’t. But I’ve got a very crafty way of manipulating them. Well, let me, let me explain that. So what it is, I always spend a lot of time finding out what they like doing. And I tell them to be, to be honest, I said, you can show whatever you want. I said, what you got to over the other couples are going to be watching you. So you’re kind of going to be educating them. So if there’s a particularly thing that helps you perform better, then carry on doing it as a, don’t be ashamed of whatever you do. If you like to be pegged by your misses, you know, you like a reach round or whatever you got to be redeemed or whatever specific specific actor is, you do.

Don’t be embarrassed because I said, couples, enjoy watching other couples being honest with each other. Oh

Speaker 1 (50m 33s): Yeah,

Speaker 2 (50m 34s): Absolutely. So once I’m, once I’ve instilled that trust in them, that’s when it’s usually the woman. That’s really more like, oh yeah, he likes this. He likes that baby. You can’t be tentative. And I said, no. I said, honestly, I said this, this is really I don’t. I said, look, wherever you’ve learned important to unlearn it now. Yeah. That’s it just be chilled out, man. I said, yeah, don’t feel that you’re under pressure to perform. If you want to do a bit, now do a bit late or you want to watch a bit of TV.

I said, ultimately, I want to be fly on the wall and just document really what you’re like. And I think people prefer that. Yeah. I mean, I was pretty the first filmmaker to do that because everyone was concerned about for positions have become short. And it has to tell you that you’re not doing it the right way. I said, no, I’ll do it my way. Okay. I sit there. I shoot. I edit. Okay. And do you know what I said? If you wanna, if you want some kind of measure for, if your port is any good ask yourself, would you buy it?

Would you buy your own content? And I’d have to say, yeah. Okay. Well, not this shit.

Speaker 1 (51m 42s): That’s exactly right. Any art form. Yeah. Any art and an art form, any art form. It’s gotta be something you like, because if it isn’t something you like others won’t like it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51m 54s): Yeah. I mean, I felt I was making sexual documentaries. So what I said, I manipulate them. I find out what they’re like and I’ll try and get it in the pictures. So the manipulation is when it comes to the pictures, because I’ve done it in the picture. There’s sometimes they’ll say, oh no, I did that in the picture. I did it in a way that was easy. I could do it here in a video. You see what I’m saying? It’s so I’ve kind of directed that almost by auto suggestion.

Speaker 1 (52m 24s): Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense.

Speaker 2 (52m 27s): Yeah, but I, I don’t stop a director because I think the moment you’ve got to stop and direct someone you’re going to break the flow of the day. It’s going to make it a long day and it’s not going to be real.

Speaker 1 (52m 38s): No, you might as well just, just take the first part of the title off.

Speaker 2 (52m 42s): So. Yeah, exactly. But although I would like to say this, this is the one thing that you could trip me up with, but when you say how real is real couples, well, how real is it when the camera man’s in there?

Speaker 1 (52m 55s): Yeah. That’s true. That’s true. I think you’re being too Terry. I think you’re being too philosophical.

Speaker 2 (53m 1s): Okay. Well now I’m probably going to get worse. Let’s get,

Speaker 1 (53m 6s): Oh God, this is true. This is true. So what challenges do you see with running a website these days?

Speaker 2 (53m 15s): Yeah, I think it business back to the real couples though. I think I noticed since the only fans phenomenon that a lot more couples are it for themselves now. Yeah. So why would they want to work for a producer? You know, and yeah. What would they want to work for a producer? I think that’s one of the challenges. I think the other challenge probably would be the payment processes again with what’s going on, where the ones that are taking a bashing for it.

Because for, for many years we were out of sight out of mind, you know, we work, we, we work custodians of records because you know, not things don’t lock into it and forget that producers have to have paperwork. Yep. So we were all above board with our paperwork, every site that I know that’s if you look at every site at the bottom of the page, they’ve all got custodial direct calls at the bottom, really? That they’re all 2, 2, 5, 7 compliant. Correct? The problem, the problem with the industry, I think is where a lot of content creators became used to shoot in stuff on their phone, uploading it to a site and not putting any paperwork up.

I think playtime’s over now. I think what happened at PornHub was the unverified users is now impacting now on content creators, you know, who are doing sexual content. I don’t think it applies to everybody because you know, some people are doing, you know, like music videos, for instance, you’re not going to ask for model releases for that because they’re not having sex. They’re doing some music thing, creative. But if you’re, but what people need to understand is that, that or that I don’t think a lot of people realize is that if you’re filming people, having sex, it is actually illegal to film them doing so without their consent.

Did you know that it’s an actual, it’s actually not. It’s an actual law

Speaker 1 (55m 13s): In the UK. Okay.

Speaker 2 (55m 14s): Okay. In the UK. Yeah. It’s, it’s actually a law now in the UK. And what I was trying to tell people is that you could find yourself on the receiving end of a revenge porn case. Yeah. Yeah. Because I found that statistics, revenge porn laws now the four offenses I’ve deviled every year since I started.

Speaker 1 (55m 33s): Jeez. Well, I don’t have a problem with that, to be honest with you. Cause I just think that’s the lowest form when guys do that. Or if girls show it. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (55m 42s): Yeah, exactly new. I mean, I remember that certain guys used to do it because they were spurned. They were spurned lovers. If you like, so you know, to go got rid of him by a video type of send it to their parents. Oh, look at your daughter. Now she’s a porn star. I always found that very low.

Speaker 1 (56m 2s): Yeah. It’s very low. It’s very low. And I, I don’t have a problem with any punishment for it, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (56m 9s): Yeah. Well, no, well that’s how we felt about it in the industry. So look, mate, if you’re going to go that low, you know, you know, we’re not going to be shedding a tear for you. If you get a Crick in, by somebody, you know, you went out your way to, to, to, to hurt her in the worst way possible. Yeah. So Hey, you know, justice is justice. We just have to look the other way.

Speaker 1 (56m 31s): So what advice would you give to people in the adult business today, especially those just getting started,

Speaker 2 (56m 38s): Definitely to pay attention, to get your model releases, correct your paperwork. Correct. Also there’s a wealth of knowledge out there now try and absorb as much of it as you can try and be part of groups and organizations where they discuss certain things that may impact on your business. You know, what’s happened with only fans recently. I mean, I’ve got an only fans account, but when they suddenly said, oh, all the hardcore has to be off by October.

The first I didn’t sweat it. I just kind of, because I’m aware of what was going on for months. You know, being an expert, again, being an expert, that’s a wealth of information there, you know, I mean some days between us. Yeah. You know what, when you get a bunch of people together, sometimes not, everybody’s going to be on the same level of experience and manage. So some, some people are a little bit more frivolous than others and might upset others. So that’s when it kind of gets into mediocrity.

And there’s a lot of that around anyway. So I wouldn’t just put that down next biz.

Speaker 1 (57m 45s): I got to tell you it’s been, it’s been better lately. In fact, I put a post up about that, that I was always happy to see more business oriented posts and some really good threads.

Speaker 2 (57m 56s): Yeah, absolutely. And that’s what you’d expect. That’s the wealth of information that I’m talking about because people who are performers, whether you’re a performer content, creator, producer, whatever level you are in the business, what I’ve loved about experts is that if you’re looking for anybody, you know, like yourself, somebody who sells websites, you approach <inaudible> manages the, the selling and the buying and selling of websites, designers, you know, that’s where you’re going to find it. You’re going to find it in a community just like that.

You know? So it’s great to, to, to be part of it is, is one thing, another thing is to be part of a certain social media groups, because you just never know that they’ll come up with something that you think, well, please, can you expand on this? This sounds interesting. What you’re talking about. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. You know, also if you’re a performer, you should try and understand who are the right people to speak to when getting a reference. Yeah. Because there’s a lot of sharks in the business now, a lot of chances and sometimes it ends up pretty bad.

Yeah. And also I would say, don’t do anything you don’t want to do. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do people say to you, oh, you’re never going to be a real porn star. If you don’t do this, tell them to get lost. You don’t have to do that. You’re not ready for it yet. Exactly. Yeah. I said, I mean, I need goals like that when I first came into the business. And one of the things that I’ve learned is that when they’re ready to do it, that will, they will practice and train themselves accordingly to when they’re ready to do it.

Right. That’s the best way. That’s the best way. Sure.

Speaker 1 (59m 40s): Yeah, exactly. So you’re currently living in Bulgaria, which is interesting. Now, is there much of an adult scene there and what are you doing there?

Speaker 2 (59m 50s): Well, at the moment I’ve been living at here because of the pandemic. I mean, I originally came out here to live and commute back to London for business. I would have been at a three or four weeks. I spend a week in London to catch up with people, but it didn’t end up being that way because the pandemic, the planes are grounded. And I found myself spending a lot more time here, but a lot of people tend to think that, oh, he must be living the life of Riley drinking every day and just doing nothing. No, I’m busy with my memoirs and, and marketing my content.

I’ve got content out here and I’m working on a marketing, I’m still doing my social media. I still making money. So I still make money. It was great because I mean, the great thing about the current era with technology is that you only need wifi and a mobile phone just market. Excuse me. Yeah. It’s brilliant. You know, and I found that, you know, my sales have been better this year, as well as all of that.

Speaker 1 (1h 0m 48s): Oh yeah. Yeah. I had a great, I had a great 20, 22. It was a 2020. It was a great year.

Speaker 2 (1h 0m 55s): Yeah. I mean, I was expecting, I was expecting an impact, you know, like with the pandemic, nobody wants to spend money on anything because they were buying too much toilet paper, you know, no money for anything else. And then suddenly I think, wow, I’m actually doing better than I was before.

Speaker 1 (1h 1m 11s): Yeah. I, you know, what I thought was going to happen? I thought there would be an initial spike because people were home and there was, but from talking to people with sights and also looking at people’s financials, now it hasn’t dropped off at all. And I think what it did was get us a lot more customers in the industry and they’re not going away. So it’s turning out to be a long-term boon. The bad side for me is some people are selling their sites. But yeah, no, I mean, it’s a real buyer’s market right now, but yeah, I saw, I expected it was going to fall off when people started losing their jobs, but it didn’t

Speaker 2 (1h 1m 52s): Do you know what I think we can attribute to that? I think the fact that port is a lot more accessible and cheaper than it was before. But you look about the future. A lot of RV fans accounts, a lot of girls are doing a special discounts, like ridiculously cheap, like $2, $53, 50. So a lot more people going to rush into that, knowing that they can get a lot of content for very little money.

Speaker 1 (1h 2m 16s): Right. But I’m S I’m seeing, I’m seeing it with pay sites too. I’m seeing pay sites with great numbers from last year and this year.

Speaker 2 (1h 2m 23s): Yeah. Well, I think people could see value for money. I mean, if you saw it to myself, I’m advertising already. If you sell it to my site, you can get access to 20 other sites all for one price. There you go. Charges. Yeah. So I’m at, at times my site, but yeah. So yeah, that’s real couples.com, real couples.co.uk. Let me start again properly. Real couples.com or real couples.co.uk is my main site.

If you join up to that site, you can get access to 20 other sites. Fabulous. So, yeah, but if you want to follow me as well, you can follow me on at naked truth guy on Twitter. And also if you were to follow, my movies is actually real couples on Twitter as well.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 18s): Fabulous. Okay, Terry,

Speaker 2 (1h 3m 20s): Hey, I have one more. Last one, one last thing. If they’re looking for discussions on, on getting into the industry health, anything to do with producing content creation, they can follow me at official U cap.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 42s): Fantastic. At officially you cap.

Speaker 2 (1h 3m 46s): Yeah. Beautiful. That’s UK AP official UK IEP.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 51s): Fantastic. Hey Terry, this has been as, as you guys would say brilliant. I’d like to, I can’t do. I can’t do the accent. Sorry. I like to thank you for, for being our guests again today on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. Thanks for having me. It’s my pleasure. My broker tip today is part one on how to buy an adult site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a cam site, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site or something else.

If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and what niche? There were literally hundreds of niches in many sub-niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears or mature, bareback Asian, Latino amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification. Plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms straight has even more sub-niche shoes.

I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site, or I want to buy a pay site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like man, and want to make money on a straight site. That’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays a big part. What’s your budget.

This is something you need to establish at the very beginning. Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a campsite with any traffic revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re going to need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site.

That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Stefan Hanal of fin XP. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Terry Stephens. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry attorney Michael Fattorosi.

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Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and adult side broker talk is adult industry attorney Michael <inaudible> for our return visit. Michael, thanks for being with us again today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (3m 39s): Thanks for having me on again.

Speaker 1 (3m 40s): It’s my pleasure. Now the law offices of Michael w federal Rosie were established in 2002, Michael originally set up in LA and now lives in the Netherlands. He represents various types of clients and adult entertainment, depending on the issue. He can represent clients within all 50 states within the U S as well as in Canada, Europe, Australia, and the UK. Over 90% of his clients are companies and personalities in the adult industry. Michael’s also known on social media as porn law.

He’s been a licensed California attorney since 1997 and has been representing companies in the adult entertainment industry since 2003. He is a graduate of the American university in Washington, DC and Whittier law school in LA. Ray was a member of the law review. He’s been a seminar speaker, numerous adult industry events. Michael also has written articles for expos world and expos video adult store buyer magazine, and has been quoted on Fox news, CNBC TMZ, the Hollywood reporter Playboy magazine, the daily beast, the daily.adult site, broker talk, and other various media outlets.

He’s been interviewed and appeared on K TLA TV news in LA. And he’s been seen on reality TV shows my bare lady too on Fox reality, as well as the right hand and web dreams on HBO and showcase Canada lately. Michael’s branched out into the export business. He exports wine, pasta sauce, pasta olive oil, and marmalade to the U S and meets and hard cheeses in Europe. So Michael, last time we discussed your food and wine manufacturing and export business.

First, for those of our listeners who don’t know what you’re doing there, why don’t you tell them a little bit about it?

Speaker 2 (5m 27s): Well, I mean, I, you know, I moved here. I moved to Rotterdam and the Netherlands two years ago and I’m set up an export business to export various Italian, you know, specialties and wines directly to the United States out of Italy. And I’ve got my own pasta and pasta sauce and olive oil label. And I also import into the Netherlands for distribution into restaurants and to somewhat, you know, small private sales, but it’s mostly restaurants.

A lot of my products are carried by the largest Italian grocery store in Amsterdam. So if you have to go to Amsterdam, you can find my wine there right now. Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s not that I’m bored with the law, but it’s sort of like, you know, I’m 52 and God at 50, I decided that I was going to enter into the last phase of my life. And I wanted to do something in addition to being a lawyer, something that I could enjoy during, I don’t know if I’ll ever be retired, but, you know, as I kind of slow down my practice, if I can replace it with some other things, it would be interesting.

And so now the plan is in another year, I’m probably gonna move to Florence, Italy and get an apartment in the city and then maybe buy a country house outside Florence. That’s sort of the plan right now.

Speaker 1 (6m 56s): We’re going to have to visit you, man. That sounds great. I’m in, I I’m, I’m a, I’m inviting myself.

Speaker 2 (7m 2s): Well, if you’re in Italy, come by, you know,

Speaker 1 (7m 5s): We all, we want to go back. We went in September of 2019 up to the, the wine growing region in the north. And yeah, God, I can never think of that. Oh my God, what a week went thereafter, the Prague show and best vacation I’ve ever had. My first time in Italy, not my wife’s first time she had been there once before and God, I just, I just had such an amazing time.

Speaker 2 (7m 33s): Italy’s such an amazing place. It really is. If anybody, for those who are listening it, you know, it’s a lot like California. It really matches it’s about California in size. And it’s also like California climate. So in Northern Italy, the mountains, it’s cooler weather. You’ve got some wine growing like you do in California up in Napa. And then as you move further south, you get into more of the Mediterranean climate, the warmer weather, the beaches. And then when you get all the way down to the very end of the boot in an area called Pulia, you have a white Sandy beaches, like you would find in Greece on Mikan in those areas.

Yeah. Oh, it’s, that’s one of the hidden gems of Italy that nobody really knows about is the really Southern beaches. They’re just absolute. Absolutely beautiful.

Speaker 1 (8m 23s): I’ve heard of it first. I’ve heard of it. Well, as far as your one and one in food business, I mean, that’s a big passion of yours. Like it is of mine.

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): I mean, it’s something that I grew up with my father doing. So my father would make his own wine and we’d make his own pastas. We, you would actually make the dough and make pasta. And then he would also, he wouldn’t grow his own olives. We didn’t have like an olive orchard, but what he would do is whenever he made, he would start the sauce with a blend of olive oils and Bazell and oregano and black pepper, red pepper,

Speaker 1 (9m 4s): Garlic.

Speaker 2 (9m 7s): And that was sort of the base to his sauce. So what I did is I took that and I turned it into a dipping sauce within a bottle. People love it.

Speaker 1 (9m 15s): Okay. So, so Mike, next question is, when am I going to get some of this stuff out here in Thailand?

Speaker 2 (9m 24s): Yeah. I’ve never shipped to Asia. I have no idea. Even if I can ship to Asia, I have no idea how much it would cost me to ship to Asia. It’s it’s it is definitely expensive to ship this stuff. That’s sort of the downside of having it. Well, that’s a downside of having the business because, you know, people want the products, but when, when you factor in the cost of shipping, you know, they don’t want the products anymore. And that’s the problem. It’s almost, it’s a hundred dollars to ship a box to the United States.

How much? A hundred dollars. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (9m 58s): I know.

Speaker 2 (9m 59s): So when you add in the price on top of that, of the products, you know, you’re talking about a $200 purchase, so

Speaker 1 (10m 6s): Yeah, and, and here you got to add all the taxes in and the government error is absolutely criminal, which one isn’t, but this, this one more, this more, more than anything else. So I guess the business is going well,

Speaker 2 (10m 19s): You know, right now I’m trying to decide what I want to do with it because of the plan to move to Italy next summer, you know, do I want to continue it because I’m also thinking for a couple of years now, I wanted to get into the tour business in Italy and you know, with COVID I’ve not been able

Speaker 1 (10m 37s): To do that. I was going to ask you about,

Speaker 2 (10m 41s): Yeah, well, I was, I w I started this, I started the tour business in 2018. That was sort of like a launch, but then we didn’t really, we, we really didn’t launch it 2019, and then it was summertime. So we didn’t really get any bookings. So 2020 was going to be the year. And then of course, you know, and then 2021, we thought about it, then I was like, no, there’s probably not going to be enough. And now I’m trying to decide if 2022 is the year and, you know, with COVID, it’s so difficult for people to travel.

Like right now, I was supposed to have a friend come visit me in the Netherlands. And he had the backout because the Netherlands has imposed a 10 day quarantine on any Americans arriving, whether they’re vaccinated or not.

Speaker 1 (11m 26s): Any anybody that comes in here, it’s 15. We had to go through

Speaker 2 (11m 29s): It. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (11m 32s): And we we’re and we’re fully vaccinated.

Speaker 2 (11m 34s): Yeah. Yeah. That’s what, that’s what the Netherlands said. They don’t care if you’re vaccinated or not. You have to do a 10 day quarantine and two tests to get out of warranty. Yep. Yep. You can do one at five days and get out, or you can do one at 10 days and get out. So really hard to try to plan a,

Speaker 1 (11m 51s): Not a good time in the world now to be in any travel related business.

Speaker 2 (11m 58s): I don’t think that’s going to change. I don’t see either. I don’t see COVID going away.

Speaker 1 (12m 4s): No, I don’t either. I don’t either. I, I think COVID is going to be here for years. And, and then what about the next pandemic? And if you, if you read it epidemiologists and what they have to say, this is just the first and, and, and probably not the worst.

Speaker 2 (12m 24s): Well, I mean, it’s not, it’s not the first, not

Speaker 1 (12m 25s): The first, but first of first of a string and they think is what you’re saying.

Speaker 2 (12m 30s): I don’t think that’s going to happen. I hope not.

Speaker 1 (12m 32s): I hope no.

Speaker 2 (12m 34s): I mean, these things, it’s what the last one was a hundred years ago. So I mean, you know, out, if we’ll have another one in five years or 10 years or 20 years, it may be 50, 60, 70 years it’ll happen.

Speaker 1 (12m 46s): If certain parts of the world continue to have the kind of relationship that they have with animals and eating animals that shouldn’t be eaten. Okay. I’ll say China, then the next pandemic is not far off. And it’s just, it’s just, it’s inevitable.

Speaker 2 (13m 10s): No, I’m still not convinced that this came from an animal. I really think this came from a leak in a lab.

Speaker 1 (13m 16s): Sure. But, but it had to come from something originally. And, and, and so from a bad exactly. Exactly. Okay. Well,

Speaker 2 (13m 25s): This is true. This is just too perfect of a virus to come from the wild.

Speaker 1 (13m 29s): Yeah, I guess you’re right. I guess you’re right. So a lot’s obviously been happening on in our industry lately, MasterCard, once again, change the rules. So what’s your take on that?

Speaker 2 (13m 42s): Well, I mean, it’s not something where they’ve changed. The rules what’s happened. And this has been happening with billing companies for years is that, you know, we don’t have governmental regulation. We don’t have obscenity cases anymore. Really. We don’t have self-regulation. So almost the vast majority of regulation of content in the United States is being done by the credit card processors. It’s true. And you know, they they’ve done this for years now. I don’t know if you remember, years ago, there were, there were sites that specialized in sleeping or sites that, where they put girls under hypnosis.

And those were around for a little

Speaker 1 (14m 26s): While, like simulated rape.

Speaker 2 (14m 30s): It wasn’t really rape, but it was more a lack of consent. Right? It was more how

Speaker 1 (14m 37s): You are an attorney.

Speaker 2 (14m 39s): Well, listen, it’s that? Well, that’s the problem that the credit card company had. That’s why they didn’t call it rape content. They called it lack of consent content because the viewer couldn’t really determine that there was consent being made by the participants. And so the credit card company said, well, we’re just not going to bill for that. And then all of a sudden went away. Right. And so they, you know, they’ve been regulating content like this for years. So really think what MasterCard is doing is, you know, all that new, I think what MasterCard is doing for the first time is they’re basically imposing the 2257 rules.

They’re saying, you know, we’re just going to make sure that everybody file follows 2257 to some degree, you know, it’s not a perfect 22, 57, but they want to make sure that everybody has IDs, that everybody’s age is checked and that there is consent and that there are model releases. And so, you know, they’re there and that’s kind of the problem with the platforms. You know, what happened was as porn hub started and the tube sites started and they moved outside the United States and basically thumb their nose at the FBI.

But the FBI, you know, I was at a X conference years ago. It’s probably 13, 14, 15 years now. And we had an FBI agent and literally the FBI agent said, well, you know, if you’re overseas, we could come inspect you, but we probably won’t. And that was basically a green light for everybody to set up outside the United States. And because the platforms were set up outside the United States and the tube sites, they didn’t care about 2, 2, 5, 7, because they knew it would have never been enforced against them by the FBI or the department of justice.

Right. So everybody that came after that, you know, just said, oh, well, you know, we don’t need to do this because pornhub’s not doing it red. Tube’s not doing it. This company’s doing it that, so why should we do it? Yeah. And that’s what allowed all of this uploader, you know, user generated content to tube sites and to other sites to happen because nobody wants to give away or, you know, post their, their personal information to porn sites. They just don’t. And so now with what happened with PornHub, with the girls do porn and the allegations that there was a child abuse material found on their site, MasterCard just did the logical thing and said, well, you know what, we’re just not going to process for you unless you regulate yourself.

And, and then, and then nobody really regulated themselves. And then MasterCard, it goes, okay, well, since you won’t regulate yourself, here are the new regulations from us. And that’s where we are now. We’re one month away from regulation by MasterCard and part. And part of the problem too, is that we have content creators that are standing on the shoulders of giants. And they do not even realize it. They are out there creating content and, you know, luckily first amendment, but they don’t realize that people went to jail so they could have the right to make $30,000 a month of only fans.

And they don’t care about the law. They don’t, they don’t care. They don’t care about two today. They don’t even know what 2, 2, 5, 7 is. They don’t even know what a model releases half the times. And you know, they think, oh, well the platform, this is what I’m paying. My 20, 30, 40% cut to the platform is so the platform can take care of those issues for me and platform looks at it, like not our issue. We’re a secondary producer. You’ve got to keep the records. We don’t care. Right. And that’s where MasterCard steps in and goes, well, Nope, we’re going to change this whole thing up.

We’re going to make sure everybody has the records.

Speaker 1 (18m 26s): Well, in the final analysis, that’s not necessarily a bad thing

Speaker 2 (18m 30s): Either. I listen, it’s, you know, it, it will keep child abuse, material offline, you know, but if you talk to real free speech and I’m, I’m not a free speech guy, meaning that I believe in free speech, but I’m not a constitutional attorney. I’m not out there fighting these ivory tower lawsuits, but the free speech guys will go, well, this is, this will, you know, chill free speech because people won’t want to upload their content because they have to give away their IDs.

And, you know, and are they correct? Absolutely correct. Feel free speech, but it’s a balancing act, you know, and that’s what the courts do. They, they do this balancing act between the governmental interest and your right to speak freely. And right now, I think with the attacks that are happening on the industry with how some of the major websites and platforms have been acting, that that is tipping more towards, you know, the government has an interest in keeping kids off of the internet from being naked.

And it’s a very hard argument to make against that. Of course,

Speaker 1 (19m 35s): Of course, now that that leads us very well into the whole only fans fiasco. So we record here in September and they’ve eliminated adult content, and now they reinstated it. So was this, was this just a big publicity stunt? Or do you think performers need to find other options?

Speaker 2 (19m 56s): Oh, absolutely. You need to find other options. There’s no doubt about that. Now this, if this was a publicity stunt, only fan should fire their PR people because this, this was a ridiculous publicity stunt. I don’t know why they did it. You know, I wish I had an inside to only fans. I’ve got ideas, you know, maybe they used it as a way to renegotiate with their banks. You know, when, when the bank saw how, what the fee, what the pushback was, maybe they were able to go back to the banks and, and reduce their rates.

I don’t know, could be, or maybe they use it just to be able to continue to process. Maybe the bank said, well, you can’t have porn. And then they showed them the response and they were like, okay, fine. Keep the porn. Or, or maybe they’re going to quietly get rid of porn anyway. Yeah. I mean, they came out and made the announcement, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have other ways to slut to slowly close the porn accounts. Yeah. I mean, I’m sure only fans is looking at Reddit right now and licking their chops.

I don’t know if you saw Reddit is they’re trying to do an IPO and they’re trying to get an evaluation of the company for $15 billion. So, so, and, and Reddit is full of porn, but, and read, it’s going to get the IPO, even though it’s full of porn because it’s like Twitter, like, okay, there’s porn on there, but it’s not the majority of what the website is, you know? And I, and I think that’s what was only fans goal only fans goal was to get rid of a, a good amount of the pore and try to go more mainstream and then to do an IPO for billions and billions of dollars.

So whatever would have been lost from the revenue generated by adults, it would have been more than made up in the amount of money that the owners would have made off of an IPS.

Speaker 1 (21m 52s): Oh yeah. Definitely very well could be the case. So there seems to be a new fans or clips type sites starting up every week lately kind of reminds me of the days when cams really started to take off people are contacting my consulting business, wanting to start a clip and a fan sites. So can all these pop people possibly make it in this space?

Speaker 2 (22m 16s): No. None of them are going to make it in this space. None. None, no, no. I mean, th th this is what nobody understands about these sites and everybody thinks, oh, well, it’s easy money. Well, what they forget, what they forget is that the biggest, and I am the attorney for one of the biggest platforms out there right now, which is AVN stars. So I have, you know, I have a certain position that I was able to, to see this as it started with AVN stars.

And what people don’t understand is, is that it’s very easy to defraud these platforms because there are, you know, there are parties in Russia and Ukraine, other areas of the Eastern block, where they trade in illegal acts, illegally gotten credit card numbers. And what they’ll do is, you know, somebody will open up a performer account and then somebody will open up a fan account and then they’ll use the credit card to run 200, 300, 400, 500, a thousand dollars through the system.

And, you know, if, if the, if the owner of the credit card doesn’t really know that it’s stolen, they can get, you know, several hundred to maybe even a thousand, a thousand or more through the credit card processing. And then what immediately happens is, is that because the performers want to get paid out so frequently daily, daily. So the person who opens up the account, they just go ahead and, and, and take the money out and put it into a bank account.

Right? And so then they, then both the, the fan and both the performer close their accounts on that, on that platform. And then by the time the platform gets noticed that it was a charge back on a stolen credit card. It could be 30 or 60 days, and those people are long gone with the money. So the

Speaker 1 (24m 18s): Platform eats it.

Speaker 2 (24m 20s): And so the platform eats it how proud and so

Speaker 1 (24m 22s): Prevalent is this

Speaker 2 (24m 23s): Mic extremely, extremely prevalent. And that’s what people don’t understand is that in order to open up one of these platforms, you have to have a shit load of money sitting in reserves to deal with the fraud that you’re going to be hit with for the first several months or year or up to a year. Because what it requires you to do is have a very robust fraud department, right? You need to have people sitting on your site 24 hours a day, seven days a week, because you have to cover every single time zone in the world.

Right. And you need to be able to catch these accounts and stop them before they get a week before they open. So, you know, if you, if you have a situation where, you know, people can self certify their accounts and open them up without somebody checking it out, that’s a problem. And if you can have people who remove or can create the payment to their bank account, without it being approved, that’s a problem. Yeah. And so, you know, sites, all these sites that are coming forward, they, I doubt highly if they have the, the staff, the money, the investment, to have that type of, of robust customer service on the backend where, you know, they’ve got 10, 20, 30 people working 24 hours a day across several times zones that are checking every account that’s being made, because what’ll end up happening is that, you know, after a while, you’ll see patterns, you’ll see patterns in the way the fraud happens, and it will help fight the fraud.

You won’t, there will still be fraud, but you can bring down your monthly losses a lot. And, and, and these, and these sites work on such a low overhead.

Speaker 1 (26m 11s): I was going to say that again,

Speaker 2 (26m 13s): A low profit margin, because they’re only taking 20%. Some are only taking 10%. And it’s like one, some

Speaker 1 (26m 21s): Are doing a hundred percent promos now.

Speaker 2 (26m 24s): Yeah. And that’s just ridiculous. And that is just absolutely ridiculous because they’re getting hit, you know, they’re making no money, plus you’re getting hit with fraud. And they’re just doing that to try to stay afloat, you know, more so than anyone else. But yeah, in, in a year there could be a lot of money lost for fraud. Hmm. You know, and that’s what people who were opening up the sites and, and see, and that’s the thing too. That’s, that’s, that’s sad is that the performers, the content creators don’t realize this, you know, they’re, they’re going to go join up at whatever site that their friend says to go join up and they don’t do the homework.

Right. And they don’t talk to people. You know, this, to me, this was the same thing back, you know, 15 years ago when girls were flocking to Los Angeles to get into porn, they weren’t doing the homework on the agents. And a lot of them were coming up with bad agents. And then once they signed the contract, they were like, oh shit, I’m stuck. And they were calling me to get out. And I’m like, yeah, you got to call me before you sign the contract. Not after, you know, so the same thing’s gonna happen here is that a lot of performers, a lot of content creators are gonna sign up, but really bad platforms.

And they’re going to get fleeced, or they’re going to get defrauded and the platforms are going to go down and they’re going to waste all of that time, putting all of that effort into marketing that, that platform and that platform won’t exist in six months.

Speaker 1 (27m 49s): You know, you talked about the fraud patterns, you know, a person joins and then another, a model joins. And then that person’s feeding the model. You would think that, that those, those types of patterns could be pretty easily picked up by AI.

Speaker 2 (28m 7s): Yeah. But who’s got the money to spend on AI. Yeah. I guess, I guess. Yeah. I mean, listen, you know, I, I’ve got clients that use AI for, you know, child abuse material, right. And for other things, but AI, you know, from a programming standpoint is really expensive, you know, and even if you use a verification company, it’s somebody who wants to defraud you is going to get around anything that you put in the way.

And really the only way to stop the fraud is, would not be acceptable. The only way to stop the fraud would be to tell models. We’re not paying you out for 30 days because 30 days is usually enough time to know whether or not a credit card is going to be charged back because of fraud for some other reason. But nobody knew who, what models in a sign up, or what content creators going to sign up for a platform that says we’re not paying you for 30 days. None of them will.

Speaker 1 (29m 6s): Yeah. Because they’ve been spoiled by, you know, daily and every three days and every week payouts.

Speaker 2 (29m 12s): Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s the thing only fans is, is, is an 800 pound gorilla in the room. And, you know, they can afford to take on losses that other companies can’t even begin to fathom because they just generate so much cash. And that’s what people don’t like, oh, well, you know, only fans and all of these other companies are equal and they’re not the only fans is way above everybody.

Speaker 1 (29m 38s): Oh, of course. Of course. So these types of sites are the big thing. Now, now from your insight and the industry, what do you think the next big thing will be ZR? Really? Yep. I mean, to me, VR has kind of lagged, it kind of got started with the, with the bang. There’s a handful of sites that seem to be doing pretty well with it. But I don’t know. I mean, it doesn’t seem like anybody’s really lighting the world on fire.

Am I wrong about that?

Speaker 2 (30m 11s): Well, you’re going to see somebody like the world on fire pretty soon.

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): Oh, he knows if somebody, okay, well,

Speaker 2 (30m 18s): I’m, I’m part owner in a company that

Speaker 1 (30m 21s): Okay. Very good. Very good.

Speaker 2 (30m 24s): What we haven’t seen in adult is mainstream VR technology and augmented reality technology,

Speaker 1 (30m 33s): Right?

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): Yeah. So I mean, you know what we see as VR in adult really isn’t VR. It’s just a, a cool way of shooting some video to make it feel like you’re, you’re, you know, there, but when you, when you start talking about real VR and you’re talking about a motion capture,

Speaker 1 (30m 52s): What’s the difference between real VR and what most adult companies do

Speaker 2 (30m 56s): You ever watched Westworld? No. Nope. Okay. Well, have you ever looked at some really high end VR games? I have not. No. Sorry. It’s hard to describe because what, what you can do with mainstream VR and that level of technology is amazing compared to what is done in adult. Yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of times when people are shooting, an adult are just POV scenes with two cameras to give a sort of a binocular view of the, of the action.

Right. But when your VR is coded VR, it can’t be stolen. You know, it’s it survives on, on its own its own servers and it enhances, and it brings to life a level of interaction that you just can’t get with somebody shooting like a POV VR scene where yeah. You, instead of looking at it on a flat screen, you feel like the girls, but she’s, she still doesn’t feel like she’s there because there’s nothing else you’re doing with it.

And nobody’s

Speaker 1 (32m 2s): Yet nobody’s doing that an adult right now.

Speaker 2 (32m 4s): Not that I’m aware of, no,

Speaker 1 (32m 6s): The project you’re working on. Well, yep. Interesting. Got to keep me posted on that and why, why can’t it? Why can’t it be stolen?

Speaker 2 (32m 15s): That’s not a question for me, but what I’ve been told is that it’s not, it’s not like a video it’s, it’s, it’s not a situation where it’s a video that you upload to a website. It’s, it’s the ability of the headset to interact with the server.

Speaker 1 (32m 32s): Oh, okay. So we can, so it basically can’t be downloaded. It can only be strained. I

Speaker 2 (32m 37s): Think so. Yes.

Speaker 1 (32m 40s): I’m not the tech guy either. So if you, if you did, if you gave me the details, I’d probably go, huh. So there you go.

Speaker 2 (32m 49s): I’m not a part of the group for my tech skills. I’m part of the group from my legal skills.

Speaker 1 (32m 52s): I kind of figured as much. Well, when it’s, when it’s ready to, to try out I’m I definitely want to be among the first sounds exciting.

Speaker 2 (33m 4s): It really is exciting. Like it’s, it’s, I’ve been working with them for six, seven years now and I’ve watched their technology just explode. And so, you know, it’s, it’s going to be something that the adult industry has never seen before. Whether, you know, it comes down to whether or not people have headsets and everything that I’ve read, everything that I’ve seen over the next, you know, 3, 4, 5, 6 years, there’ll be more reasons to have a headset and that’ll be able to make it more accessible for more people.

Speaker 1 (33m 41s): Walt, the point of entry be pretty high as far as the equipment to shoot.

Speaker 2 (33m 45s): I don’t think so. I think it will be in the terms of, you know, three, $400.

Speaker 1 (33m 50s): And in terms of shooting

Speaker 2 (33m 51s): It, oh, you shooting it. I thought you meant the headset for the fans as far as shooting. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t know what that would be.

Speaker 1 (33m 57s): Yeah. How long until it’s going to be available that

Speaker 2 (34m 0s): I don’t know either.

Speaker 1 (34m 2s): Okay. Okay. I won’t, I won’t ask any more questions. You definitely got my attention. So now Mike, this, this industry’s always been under attack. Okay. But it seems like the attacks are coming more frequently and even heavier than before. Does it seem that way to you? Or is it more of the same?

Speaker 2 (34m 21s): Oh, it seems more. Okay. It’s always been under attack. Like you said, it depends where the facts are coming from. You know, everybody likes to use porn to raise money aids, healthcare foundation did it a couple of years ago with the condoms in porn stuff. And you know, they were low raise money from that. And now we’ve gotten a cozy and Exodus cry. If you go look at the tax filings for, for the cozy national center of sexual exploitation, I think is what it stands for.

If you go look at the tax filings, you know, every year for the last four years, since they’ve been really attacking the adult industry, you know, their, their contributions that they’ve taken in have doubled the triple, right. So we mean, you know, it’s, it’s a good football for them to kick because it brings in more donations. And then those donations are funneled to attorneys who drive the litigation against the industry, which, you know, just makes more donations come in. So it’s, it’s good business for them.

Speaker 1 (35m 24s): Non-profit my buck.

Speaker 2 (35m 25s): Well, they’re not, I mean, yeah, their profit. I mean, they’re there, I think on staff attorney makes 175,000 a year, their direct, or maybe their director makes 175,000. I’m not, you know, I looked at it, but I can’t, I didn’t remember. I

Speaker 1 (35m 40s): Didn’t remember, but

Speaker 2 (35m 41s): Yeah, but, but overall, you know, this is, this is a reiteration of morality in media and they’d been around since 1962. They’re, they’re not new. It’s not like they just popped up. I don’t know where they just renamed themselves. And so, and they used to try to get the government. They used to lobby the government to attack porn and then the government just has no interest in attacking porn anymore. And so they decided to do it themselves through these, you know, sex trafficking litigation cases that they filed.

I think they’re up to three, four, maybe five even, which was ludicrous. Yeah. And you know, what’s sad about it is that the FSC is not really providing any, any assistance with that. I represented, I represented a small company in one of their litigations and you know, the F the FSC silent on this. And I wonder why, because I don’t think it’s good publicity for them. That’s why

Speaker 1 (36m 41s): They don’t want to pick a sex trafficking as mentioned. Yup.

Speaker 2 (36m 44s): Yup. You know, and that’s, it’s, it’s not w when FSC was formed many, many years ago, the idea was so the companies could join together, donate and create a legal defense fund. Right. And FSC has moved so far away from that. It’s ridiculous. And now they don’t provide any legal defense fund. And, you know, I’m not sure why people still join the FSC, but they do, but the agency’s not helping out small companies or even medium-sized companies with defense of these cases.


Speaker 1 (37m 15s): Okay. Very interesting. Now I see sex workers are now fighting back with some bank protest. D D do you see this doing any good or is it going to backfire?

Speaker 2 (37m 28s): Well, I don’t know. It’s not going to do any good. I don’t know. I mean, you know, it’s like sitting at a picnic and an ant crawling across your toe, or you going to like, you know, stop down on the end or are you just going to let it crawl across your toe and leave? You know, if they become annoying enough, then yeah. It can cause problems with the banking, with the processors and the banks. It’s the last thing that we need in the industry. But, you know, I, and I set it on, on X biz.net. I said, you know, the banking industry could turn off adult tomorrow and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

And there’s this idea in porn that, oh, they need us. No, they don’t American express American express left 21 years ago and never looked back.

Speaker 1 (38m 14s): They seem to be doing

Speaker 2 (38m 15s): Pretty well. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, you know, the, the amount of e-commerce that happens a daily basis, you know, they wouldn’t even probably notice that adult was gone.

Speaker 1 (38m 31s): I mean, adult adult used to be the big dog, but that’s not the case anymore.

Speaker 2 (38m 35s): No, no, no. I mean, who in adult is sending rockets to Mars?

Speaker 1 (38m 43s): I don’t know. Alec hell Alec Helmy maybe, I don’t

Speaker 2 (38m 45s): Know. There isn’t anybody rich enough in porn to build a spaceship. We’re not dogs. Amazon’s a big dog. I mean, you know, or maybe 20 years ago, porn was important to billing, but not anymore. Right.

Speaker 1 (39m 4s): All right. So this is something I have a little bit of trouble understanding. Maybe you have a better take on it. NFT seemed to be all the rage now, and they, they seem to be gaining steam in an adult. Is this a trend that you think is going to continue? Or is it a flash in the pan?

Speaker 2 (39m 23s): I don’t know. I’m kind of clueless when it comes to crypto and MTS. Yeah. I’ve got a client that’s got a token in, in, you know, problem with NFTs is that, you know, it has to be something special I think. And it has to have, and it has to have a blockchain attached to it. Right. And I don’t know how many NFTs and porn have blockchains attached to it because without the blockchain, then you don’t have ownership rights. Right. And so, you know, there’s another thing I heard about been finance, but that’s not really blockchain.

So I actually just, I, I don’t want to call them a client yet, but there’s a, a crypto coin that just approached me to help represent them in the adult industry, because they want to do crypto with an adult and they want to do the NFTs. And so, you know, I had to put them in touch with somebody that I know because he knows blockchain and he knows the adult and he knows crypto. So we just had discussion about it. But, you know, it’s, there’s, there’s what, less than 1%, maybe, maybe there’s 1%, maybe 2% of all transactions and adult have to do with crypto.

So, I mean, you know, if in, in, until it reaches mass acceptance, it’s, it’s just a novelty in adult.

Speaker 1 (40m 44s): Certainly go up if the credit card companies dump us.

Speaker 2 (40m 48s): Well, I know, because even then, I don’t know if it’ll go up because you can buy crypto with credit cards. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. So, I mean, you know, it’s, and I, I don’t think the credit card companies are gonna dump us. I don’t think, I don’t think, I think the credit card companies will be dumping sites. I think that will happen. Think, you know, after these rays go into effect, whether it takes two months, six months, a year, there will be spot checks on companies by the, the banks and the processors.

Yep. And if those companies don’t have the documents in order, the way MasterCard wants, then I, and if it’s agregious enough, I think that they’re just going to have their building shut off. Just like what happens to corn hub? You know, if you’re missing. Oh, no. Oh no. I think, I think depending on how egregious it is, they just pull the billing period.

Speaker 1 (41m 47s): Well, they did, but they reinstated it.

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): MasterCard didn’t reinstate it for PornHub. They didn’t, I don’t think so. No. They reinstated for browsers and things like that.

Speaker 1 (41m 57s): Oh, I thought they, I thought they got reinstated. I thought I saw, I read an article about that. So, so these, so these crypto clients, are they paying you in crypto Inquiring minds need to know? So

Speaker 2 (42m 11s): I, I do not accept crypto for payments.

Speaker 1 (42m 15s): Okay. Everyone, you got that. So with performers having more control over their content these days, do you think there’s still a future for membership sites?

Speaker 2 (42m 28s): I think so. Yeah. It’s tough because my heart is always in membership sites because some of my, you know, my earliest clients and still my friends, Mike, you know, certain clients that I have run those sites, have those sites platforms have created a different customer. And, and what happens is when this all comes crashing down, because it’s going to come crashing down. When, when guys start to realize that they’re not talking to their favorite porn star, when they realize that, you know, you know, Susie big tits, isn’t awake at 4:00 AM discussing your problems.

And you’re, you know, probably tipping either somebody in her family, her boyfriend, her husband, or maybe you’re, you’re tipping in a customer service rep working out of a call center. Right. You know, when, when guys start to realize yeah. When guys realized that. No worries. Okay. Can you hear that? I can, yeah. That’s our air raid sirens.

Speaker 1 (43m 35s): Do you need to go?

Speaker 2 (43m 38s): Well, it’s amazing because here in Rotterdam, you know, the reason why Rotterdam’s all new and it doesn’t look like Amsterdam is because the Nazis burnt it to the ground with a firebomb campaign. Lovely. And the, the, our Dammers never forgot that. And they still do these, you know, air rate tests once a month. I just happen to be,

Speaker 1 (43m 60s): I think it’s, I think it’s charming. No, go ahead. Go ahead with what you were saying.

Speaker 2 (44m 5s): And so what was I saying? Where was I?

Speaker 1 (44m 11s): We were talking about membership sites and still a place for membership sites and Susie big tits talking to a customer service rep somewhere.

Speaker 2 (44m 19s): Yeah. When, when these guys realize that they’re not talking to your favorite porn star, what are they going to do? Are

Speaker 1 (44m 24s): They going to realize, do you think they’re really going to realize that

Speaker 2 (44m 26s): I do. They have to, at some point they, you know, someone’s going to do a story about it. There’s going to be some angry call center person who gets fired and they’re going to call daily beast or one of these other ones. And, you know, like I pretended to be Susie big tits for four months online. And none of the guys knew, I think that’s, what’s going to happen. And I think someone, you know, a disgruntled employee is going to do it.

And then when people realize that, you know, when they realize that their favorite porn star, isn’t sitting around at two o’clock in the morning, four o’clock in the morning talking to them, no, no, don’t get me wrong. There are some that do, there are definitely some that do. Yeah. You know, I know my ex used to, you know, spend a tremendous amount of time talking to her fans. And so there are still a lot of, a lot of performers, content, creators that are honest with their members and they are on there and they are speaking with them, but there are a tremendous amount that are not right.

And so when that happens, I think it all comes crashing down. And now the tube sites are kind of, you know, neutered because of the MasterCard situation. And when people realize that all of these fan sites are, you know, basically, you know what I think you and I are old enough to remember are the pictures of really hot girls on phone sex lines. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (45m 56s): Well, wait, wait, are you telling me that wasn’t her.

Speaker 2 (46m 0s): Exactly, exactly. And so, and so guys we’re like, okay, well I know she’s not the girl in the picture, but she’s got a sexy voice, so it’s okay. There you go. And I think guys were okay with that because whoever did the phone sex, you know, they could count on it, at least being a woman. Right. Okay. And they could count on that woman having a sexy voice and, and they could, you know, suspend their disbelief that this was not the war. This was the woman in the picture. Right. But when it comes to stuff like only fans were, a lot of the messaging is through texts.

You could be talking to a guy, right. You could be talking to the boyfriend, you could be talking to that. You can be talking to a gay guy. If you a dude,

Speaker 1 (46m 40s): You and I both know a very large companies that do a, what do they call it? Moderation for dating sites. And I’m sure they’re doing it for these types of sites.

Speaker 2 (46m 55s): Yeah. And the problem with it is, is that the FTC, when after the dating sites and find a bunch of them, I’m waiting for the FTC to go after these types of sites. I’m sure it won’t be long. Well, and that’s the, and that’s the thing though, but do the sites know what’s going on?

Speaker 1 (47m 10s): Yeah. But do the sites, do the sites care if they get slapped on the wrist by the FTC? I mean, do you think they stopped doing it at that point?

Speaker 2 (47m 19s): I, you know, I’m not an FTC lawyer, so I don’t know what level the fines are. I’ve seen, I’ve seen FTC sites, Sue dating companies. And when for millions, you know, I don’t know if that would go up to tens of millions or hundreds of millions on something like an only fans thing. But yeah. I mean, if it’s a few million dollars only fans makes that in the morning before noon. Right. So it probably wouldn’t be a deterrent, but I think what would end up happening is like I said, guys would go, well, I can’t trust this, you know?

Or, or, you know what, maybe they’re just so desperate that they do. I mean, I, I literally just had a fan contact me and asked me if I knew a certain porn star. And I said, why? And he said, well, because she, you know, she’s trying to get out of porn, but she owes somebody $20,000 or $10,000. I forgot how much. And she’s in love with him and she wants to come join him, you know? But she, she needs this money to pay off her pimp.

And until he gets paid off, she’s in part of sexual servitude. And it’s like,

Speaker 1 (48m 28s): It sounds like the bar girls in Petaja The lesser amounts of money, of course.

Speaker 2 (48m 36s): And, and, and he showed, and he told me who it was, and I know who the porn star is. And I know that’s not the case. And then I said, how do you know it’s her? And so he showed me a picture of her passport. I don’t, I don’t know what her real name is. So I couldn’t tell if the real name is fake, but I can tell you that it looks real. It absolutely looks real. It looks real to the point of where, whoever Photoshop the picture, except they used one of her porn pictures for the picture for the past.

Speaker 1 (49m 6s): Oh

Speaker 2 (49m 7s): No. She’s like got all makeup done and everything. And I’m like,

Speaker 1 (49m 11s): So this is probably like a Nigerian scammer,

Speaker 2 (49m 13s): Right? Yeah, exactly. So now he’s like, when you ask her and I’m like, yeah, I’ll ask her, but I can guarantee you that that’s not her don’t send any money. And so, yeah. There’s, you know, there are, and I, I, there’s a bunch of only fans, content creators that I represent who have these, these accounts that are out there scamming guys. Right. And, and guys believe it. I mean, guys, believe it. And so that’s the sad part. Guys are dumb.

They’re just dumb.

Speaker 1 (49m 45s): Yes. Yes we are. We were born that way. Unless, unless you’ve been an adult, as long as we have, then you get a little more streetwise.

Speaker 2 (49m 58s): Well, we call it the pink cloud. Did anybody ever tell you that? No.

Speaker 1 (50m 4s): I haven’t

Speaker 2 (50m 4s): Heard that when I first got into porn, I dunno. It was 18 years ago. I remember I started dating a girl after my first marriage ended and I was crazy about her. And I presented one of the agents in the industry at the time. And he came up to me. He’s like, dude, don’t get lost in the pink cloud is what he’s like. Yep. This is what happens. When, you know, you start dating porn stars and you start, you start dating sex workers. You get into this pink cloud mentality where like, you’re just, you’re just in a fog.

And he was right. I was in a total fog. So I can see how these guys get into these pink clouds, where, you know, they believe that this porn star or this content creator, or this performer needs the money to save them from this guy that, you know, owns them

Speaker 1 (50m 54s): Or their, or their mother needs and needs an operation or whatever. Well, Michael it’s really been a blast as always. And I, once again, I hope we, we get a chance to do part three soon. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today, once again on adult Cyprus.

Speaker 2 (51m 14s): Thank you, Bruce. Thank you for having me back. Let me know when you want me for number three, you got it.

Speaker 1 (51m 18s): My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit will be a multiple of the profit. And that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time.

If the profit is taking a nosedive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and review traffic are the most valuable to traffic is the least valuable. Is the traffic reliable and sustainable? What is the traffic history? In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue.

The same factors apply to that as to profit and the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website? Is the domain a.com or something else? Dot com is still king. What is its Alexa rating? How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build a site from scratch and drive the same amount and quality of traffic to it.

And how much time would be involved? What’s the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week, how to buy a website. And next week we’ll be speaking with Maverick, UK producer, Terry Stephens. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Michael Fattorosi. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Zak. Ozbourne.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to the German and Italian languages. Google has placed the website in good search positions.

There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic only $595,000. Now time for this week’s interview.

My guest today and adult side broker talk is Zach Osborn of exclusive.life. And let me spell that. It’s E X, C L U S v.life. Zach, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, my pleasure. Pleasure’s all mine. Now, Zach is a programmer web developer and photographer in Northern Australia who has been working in the adult industry for over 10 years. He started as a local event photographer doing casual booed wash shoots for friends and acquaintances.

This transformed into shooting for an adult website in Australia, then creating his own adult website and finally pivoting to support adult content creators who were struggling with monetizing their social media, which is where exclusive.life was born. So, yeah, you know, an obvious first question is you talk about creators struggling with this whole only fans thing. And we’re, we’re recording just a few days after the announcement, maybe a week after the announcement.

What impact do you see that having on your business?

Speaker 2 (3m 50s): Oh, I was, I prepared for this question verse, huh? Well, at the moment, I’m an advocate for a more critical reading of whatever the internet has been throwing at us. In this regard, you see a lot of models and sex workers and their unions. They’re definitely not doing enough research into it. Highly fans has changed their policies and it’s likely due to stakeholders decisions, right? It’s from what I understand has nothing to do with MasterCard pulling out or anything like that. Right.

So there is speculation of every possible, every possible kind being thrown around. And we definitely all need to calm down and have a look at this critically rather than emotionally. Sure. I’m not here to throw shade on anybody, but yeah, it’s, it’s much like the pandemic it’s uncertain times.

Speaker 1 (4m 41s): Yeah. Yeah. Most definitely. So tell me more about what exactly is exclusive.life.

Speaker 2 (4m 49s): Exclusive. Life is a premium social media platform, I guess, is the best way to put it. It gives content creators the best chance I’ll get a chance to monetize their content. We support a large range of content creators, such as models, photographers, musicians, artists, writers, vloggers. If you can create it, you can put it on exclusive life. Hmm.

Speaker 1 (5m 14s): So how did it all begin?

Speaker 2 (5m 16s): Well, I want to go now 2011, probably close to 10 years. I started shooting content and recruiting talent for a small Australian website here called Ozzy amateurs. And I worked, I, I mostly hide like backpackers and traveling, traveling models and stuff like that. And I would do the photography work and edited it at a discounted rate if I was able to use the content myself.

So I had my license for myself as well. Sure. After a little while I was shooting, I started my own website, Queensland girls in early 2012. I kept, I kept doing some photo shoots and video for Ozzy amateurs. And at the time I was also running my own small web development company, building websites for local local businesses and whatnot. So managing a website, wasn’t not outside of my skillset. Things kept getting busier and busier.

And I was shooting three to five times a week, mainly yeah. Shooting mainly in outside private outdoor locations. But here where I am, we sort of have two seasons wet or dry. So I was like this place. So when it was a bit uncertain, whether friends or people I know would lend me their living room or their bathroom or something like that, that looked a bit nice to give a bit more of a nice backdrop.

And then after that, we just, it sort of just kept growing through chance. I actually then became a caretaker of a brothel. A friend, a friend of a friend was the president of a small investment company. And that, that investment company owned the building of the brothel. So they rented it out to brothel license holders and the lease had just ended and there was no interest in anybody picking it up again.

So through like a quick little meeting and stuff like that and the connections they gave me the keys and said use it however you like, but just, just look off to the, yeah, look, look out for the yard and the gardens, keep it clean and keep it ready for the next tenant. Whenever they, whenever that comes this brothel, it was way over the top for what I was doing at the time. It had like a reception booth office staff room, staff bathrooms, big lounge area, car park, and then it had its five service rooms.

And like they all had their own themes, like Arabian room, French Oriental safari, and like a BDSM bondage type room called the forbidden room. Most, most of the decor was taken out with it, along with the tenants, but there was still some stuff left behind, which served as really good inspiration for future photo shoots that we were doing at the time. And then, oh yeah, I worked out of the brothel for about 18 months before the lease got picked up again.

So who knows how long they invest guys lost money out one, but will gain from me. But it was, it was such a great place to have, I would always have any meetings, business related photography related to have meetings at this brothel. And so it was like this huge, big building just for myself, we’d have parties sort of like end of end of financial year parties, Christmas parties, all that sort of stuff. Even a local swinger’s group contacted me and asked if they could have a, one of their annual parties there, which, which they did then the, the investor type people they said to me, you know, you, you can, you can rent it out to them.

Yes. But you have to be there. And anything that happens is on you. And it’s like, whoa, okay. I can do a swing as potty. Okay. But we had, we had a bit of a, we had some wild times there. I bet you too. And then yeah, I, I, I’ve moved, started to coding out pay sites for models and other photographers who wanted to get into the online industry, helping them get set up with villas and initial content uploaded. I worked with a lot of up and coming models at the time, a lot of Australian, Australian content, creators, Kiki, Sue Cray, Monty Luxe, Bonnie tonic, some of which I have, I’ve been, I’m still really good friends with.


Speaker 1 (9m 48s): How did those, those types of relationships help you to move forward?

Speaker 2 (9m 52s): Well, a large, a large portion of the girls I worked with were also sex workers, like models, strippers escorts, all the, the, the usual fanfare often I’d get called from, from these girls saying, Hey, Zach, I’m in town. And you know, I’ve got a job on or you know, that sort of stuff. So I’d offer him to come stay at my house and I’d drive them to, and from their jobs and offer them a good home cooked meal.

Cause I know when you’re traveling, you know, like these girls, they tend to just eat fast food and whatnot. But yeah. And in, in a downtime we’d arranged photo-shoots and it was just around the house or wherever, wherever suits. One time, speaking of photo shoots, one time Kiki sukra was visiting. And in between jobs, she wanted to, we wanted to make some chocolate cake. So we decided let’s turn the baking of this cake into a photo-shoot Kiki’s vagan and not a baker.

Neither am I walking around the grocery store on our phones, trying to look up like the best vegan chocolate cake recipe so we can try and actually make a cake for this photo shoot. And in the end, yeah. The cake turned out pretty good, but the photos were a lot better than the cake. Now I still work with and keep in contact with a lot of girls. And if I’m traveling in their area, I let them know. Or they, they know just through general conversation, they usually invite me over to their house for dinner and drinks.

So we go out somewhere and just have a good catch-up. Sure. And it’s pretty good. It’s really nice.

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): So you recruited talent, you produced content, you built your own site, you made sites for other people. You looked after a brothel, which I think is awesome. So what happened now?

Speaker 2 (11m 42s): Yeah. So 2016, I noticed a trend where the girls, just the models. I think they just didn’t want to have to rely on like myself as a photographer or other photographers to create the content. And at the time 2016, mobile phones were starting to come into their own and, and digital cameras was entry-level digital cameras were quite quite good. So this whole self shot content was definitely a strong alternative for producing content, but there was also another sort of trend happening at the same time models in the newly named content creators didn’t want, they didn’t want to wait for that website to be made because as you know, websites can take a while to build code, you know, tests, all that sort of stuff and build up the content.

Yeah. And they didn’t want to have to go through the hassle of uploading content, to the website, writing posts and all that sort of stuff. They wanted to just deliver their content straight to the hands of their consumers, their, their fans. And this was sort of the beginning of the premium Snapchat revolution. You could call it, you know, premium Snapchat, if you’d not familiar, it’s where creators charge, access to a private Snapchat story.

And then they can, you know, you make a payment, they, they add you and you get to see this private story. And so some of these, like a lot of the girls I’d worked with already in this premium Snapchat sort of situation. And so I asked them, I said, how can we improve this? Like, this seems extremely clunky from a program perspective and even a, a consumer’s perspective. Sure. And so they talked back and forth about it and you know, one of the problems they had was when do we remove someone from our story?

Like, you know, are we $30 lifetime subscription? And I went, wait, where do we stand on that? And then another friend, she said that she had $5,000 take frozen in her PayPal account because at the time this was against PayPal’s terms and conditions as it still is. Yes. Sure. So I, I, I sat there and I took some notes and I thought this could be, we can do this better. And by mid 2016, I launched what I think no one’s corrected me yet. The first premium Snapchat notification system called sexy snaps.

So it provided the creators, the ability to set up recurring subscriptions. There was a small little spot there to upload some previews and member and the content. So people had something to look at while they were waiting to be added because you still had to be manually added to Snapchat and removed from Snapchat, you know? So there was still that manual time, the waiting the, so you had to Sue the instant gratification. Yeah. And it was all through like a safe adult payment gateway and it all got dispersed correctly and sort of, you know, no chance of any payment accounts being locked or anything like that.

And yeah. So sexy snaps took off in the first 12 months, we did $150,000 in sales, which wow. Yeah. It was kind of a big deal for, for me, that was the first time that something of mine had taken off seriously. Yeah. So obviously with that, I’d paid the girls, their share of that 150, but of course, yeah. And we just had a steady, steady flow of creative signing up using the platform and promoting it.

Some girls were even taking their payout statements, just straight into car dealerships and, and that sort of stuff. And just saying, Hey, look, I’m, I’m earning this much money and they’re getting fully fledged car loans or like brand new car loans based on the income of sexy snaps. Got all of it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15m 49s): So now how did you go from sexy snaps to exclude

Speaker 2 (15m 53s): Got life? I had made sexy snaps in a way where it was a hundred percent cloud-based I could approve new applications. I could set profiles up. I could manage payouts, all that sort of stuff from anywhere in the world, as long as I had my laptop and the internet. So that gave me a bit, a lot of freedom. I’ve traveled quite a lot. And in 2018, I think it was it’s all a bit blurring now. Long time ago, I was, had just finished traveling through Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, and then I was in Thailand.

Oh yes. And I, yes, I had done a day’s worth of touristing and I was on the train back from, what do you call it out west there Kenshin burry. Okay. And I was on the train and I thought, oh, just flick the old Snapchat map location on. So I could make all my friends a bit jealous about where I am and that sort of thing. And the train, you know, in a city. It’s not that interesting looking out the window.

Speaker 1 (17m 0s): I know my wife’s a bit on it. I have, and I won’t touch those or trust those damn things.

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): The real, the real rod is from the overnight train from Chiang Mai to Bangkok. That’s the real raw. I’m

Speaker 1 (17m 14s): Gonna take your word for that.

Speaker 2 (17m 18s): And yeah, shortly after I posted some photos, I got a message from apple, a Thailand based content creator that’s on, that was on sexist snaps at the time. And after a bit of back and forth, she she’s like, oh my God, you, you in Thailand. I said, yeah, I am. And she said, oh, may, may yet make me after, after, after work at seven o’clock for some drinks, I said, oh, that sounds pretty fun. I’d be shopping around Thailand. Excuse me, a bank, Bangkok by a local, you know, not many people get that opportunity.

She’s like meet me at the Hooters bar in Bangkok. And I’m like, okay.

Speaker 1 (17m 55s): Right. I know exactly where that is. Right in. Right in soy, Nana.

Speaker 2 (18m 2s): Yup. So 7:00 PM rolled around and I was sitting just on the veranda, watching the traffic go by

Speaker 1 (18m 9s): Know, I know exactly where that is too, because there was a bar, there was a bar that used to be there before, right outside the, you know what the, hell’s the name of that crap hotel at sin and went to the Nana hotel. Yeah. And I used to sit, I used to sit on that balcony and watch the world go by, translate it, all the beautiful girls go by

Speaker 2 (18m 33s): All the beautiful girls and boys.

Speaker 1 (18m 35s): Yeah. Well them to,

Speaker 2 (18m 40s): But yeah, so she, she made a separate o’clock. She messaged me and she said, I’m on I’m on my way down. Order me a large point of Asahi. I was like, okay, sure. So I got myself one and she got one too. Yeah. So within 10 minutes, she was there at his tiny little Thai girl, apple that I’d been talking with for years almost. She’d been on the platform for 18 months, two years. And she just grabbed this pint and she just chugged it just completely just demolished this pint of Asahi, I thought, wow.

And then she’s just so excited. It’s full of energies. Where do you want to go? What do you want to do? And I said, oh, I’m a little bit hungry. Cause I hadn’t eaten anything. Since, since lunch, I’m sort of quite hungry. She’s she goes, what, what? Wait. And I’m like, I dunno, it’s this is your town. You show me, you show me. She’s like, okay, I know the spot. So

Speaker 1 (19m 33s): Sushi place across the street, by the way. But anyway, go ahead

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): Through all these little, these little streets and there’s traffic, it’s just chaos. Nothing like I’ve experienced before. Really. And she took me to the, one of the, these, this weird little restaurant, like a Japanese style restaurant where, you know, you sit down and cook your own food and excuse me. And

Speaker 1 (19m 59s): Yeah. I, I, yeah, I know. I think I, I think I might know the place to,

Speaker 2 (20m 5s): Oh, the restaurant. It was just so busy and that they set up, sat us down in the back and you know, she’s asked me, she’s like, what do you want to eat? And I’m like, oh, whatever, whatever you want. You know, I said, I’ll, I’ll shout. I’ll, I’ll buy this one. And I, cause I couldn’t read the menu. It was just all in funny, funny, can’t read squiggles, you know,

Speaker 1 (20m 26s): I have that trouble

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): Anyway. So she confirms with me like, do you eat this? Do you eat that? And I was like, yeah, no, definitely not that. And I said, just go ahead. And she ordered like what felt like a hundred things. And I was like, wow, we gonna, we gonna eat all this food anyway. So we were drinking and talking and having such a great time that when the food finally came out, we didn’t want to cook our own food. We, she just asked the waitress in Thai, do you mind cooking, cooking some of it for us.

So we had this, we were taught in a cook your own food place, but then we had someone cooking it for us. So during head catch up at catch-up, we’d just talking about our life, my life, her life, how we got to where we are. And she started telling me about her experiences using sexy snaps now, because it was all run through Snapchat. There was zero moderation from my side. I had no idea what was going on. I was just taking payments and dispersing the payments sort of thing. I had no idea. Sure.

Nothing about the interactions at all. And so she told me she’s like, people are really mean like they sign up based on her previews and then that’s not what the previews are. And you know, she’s just, she’s like, they really mean, and I handled all the complaints from both, both sides, the creators and the members, if any member came to me and said, oh, you know, I was blocked by such and such. I would have to go to someone to that creator and say, why did you block this person? And back then as a bit of a back and forth, he said, she said thing.

But usually most of the time the creators could provide me screenshots of what this person was saying. And if it was bullying or harassment of any type, I was just like, no, you’re done to the member. You’re like, you know, no one deserves to be treated like that. I agree. She asked me, he’s like, is there a better way to be able to report these members and you know, sort of combat this negative experience a little bit more. And I was like, fuck, but funny enough, most of the bullies were people who signed up via promo codes or really, really low specials, the cheap Charlie.

So perhaps that maybe they just signed up just to ruin someone’s day. But yeah, apple continued. She mentioned that she’s going to stay with her friends, friends, and family for a couple of weeks. And she wanted to be able to keep providing content for, for her fans and members. And this was before you could upload saved snaps to Snapchat before you could upload safe snaps. And so I asked her what would be ideal. And so I, Jimmy rigged up a, a way for her to upload some of her previous content into her members area.

So that was, that was kinda cool. But then she said like, well, could there be more could, can we comment? Can we like, you know, all that sort of business, we know we’ve gone this big circle. They don’t want the girls, the content creators don’t want to wait for photographers. They don’t want to have to manage their own pay site. They want to do it all through an app. Now they all want to do it through an app, but also upload stuff that they shot with their phone. We’ve almost gone full circle again. Right. And so it’s not something I had got the wheels turning and there’s something has to be done to accommodate for all of this, all this at the same time.

So once I returned home from this trip, I started drawing up plans and arts and getting ready for 60 snaps, 2.0, I, I named it. But I knew that a project of this size, especially with a social media style backend, I couldn’t do it alone. Especially if I was going to code it from the beginning and have buy nothing off the shelf, a hundred percent custom sort of thing. Right. So, so I teamed up with a fellow programmer in New Zealand.

He’s well-known he was well-known at the time for his reverse engineering escapades on various well-known APIs. And yeah, we, we got in and we started planning sexy snaps, 2.0 or as we call it today, exclusive life.

Speaker 1 (24m 39s): That’s cool. Now, where is sexy snaps now?

Speaker 2 (24m 44s): Sexy snaps after a, a relatively painless painless in quotations migration of the existing, sexy snaps creators. We just, the sexy stamps dot Emmy domain, just points to a, not safe for work landing page for exclusive life, just to re help with any, any further onboarding, if any of our links are still active out there in the wild. Okay. And I actually looked, I was actually following this up earlier this week.

I think that that, that link, that particular redirect has had over 130 unique redirects, 130,000. It should say

Speaker 1 (25m 26s): I was going to say 130 wouldn’t impress me too much.

Speaker 2 (25m 30s): 130,000. Yeah. Redirects.

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): Excellent. Excellent. So how is exclusive life different from sexy snaps,

Speaker 2 (25m 38s): Different to sexy stamps? Well, exclusive life was made with more of the creators needs. In mind. We worked with the creators of sexy snaps, finding out what they wanted and what sexy snaps and other platforms at the time were missing. One of the recurring things and themes was that they wanted it to be faster, faster, set up times, you know, faster, easier to apply, get approved, you know, just get set up and start making money. They wanted it, you know, bang, bang, bang now.

And yeah, now you can say exclusive life, you can upload content people, your fans and followers can like comment, follow all that sort of business. There’s a lot more tools exclusive life also now has stifled in many different time zones. So applications, payout, support requests, content moderation, all happens with very, very little wait times. Yeah. Every, every post is viewed and moderated pretty quickly after it’s uploaded.

And this is showing us that no content, no content, uploaded comments, et cetera, breaking our community guidelines. And we want to try and keep explosive life as safe and friendly as possible, I guess. Sure.

Speaker 1 (26m 56s): Okay. So how do you handle the money to pay out

Speaker 2 (27m 1s): Well, handling the payouts and whatnot? That’s all very important. It’s something that I find I’m very passionate about myself being in Australia, international banking is not friendly to Australians. It’s very difficult. Yeah. Phase are just really high. You can’t, it’s just not fair. It’s the best way I can, like I can explain it. And a lot, a majority of our content creators are Australian because that’s where I am.

That’s where all my friends are, you know? So we sort of we’re, we’ve got a high population of Australians on new list of life. But one thing I can’t stand is create having to reach a goal or a minimum amount to before they can ask for their money, you know, and also have to wait, you know, oh yeah, you made this, this sale, but you’re going to have to wipe you request a payout and then it’s going to be, you will approve it in two weeks time. Like let’s say like some of these credits, they were relying on the, these earnings to pay their bills and their rent and you know, general life expenses.

Right? So we were early adopters of the BitSight platform. And so far it’s been really good payouts from your exclusive account to your bit safe account, fast, like immediate and free. There’s no fees, but safe, a bit safe. They have a thing like some of the others, they have a debit card attached to your a bit safe account. So the create is they can use the debit card online or in person and not have to wait for the wire transfer to get to their bank account.

And in Australia, that could be from America. That’s, you know, you can look in the three to five days. So it, it definitely, definitely speeds up the process. One of our content creators, Bonnie shit, when she had just received a bit safe card, she got it all activated and all set up and it was a Friday afternoon and she requested a payout and we approved it. And then she used that, that, that, that card a bit safe card online to order pizza and some drinks for a Friday afternoon to be delivered.

And from requesting the payout to pressing confirm and payment confirmation was 15 minutes. Nice United. So from your available balance on internet platform where you sell content to being able to buy real, tangible objects and have it delivered to you within 15 minutes is notice that’s, that’s, that’s pretty, pretty grand grand shaking pretty

Speaker 1 (29m 43s): That’s. That’s amazing. So are there any perks for exclusive life creators?

Speaker 2 (29m 50s): Absolutely. Exclusive life has been developing its own line of Brendan mentioned us. We do crop shirts, broody shorts, bags, stickers. I’m currently trialing a NFC style business card. So if you way, if you’re a stripper or a dancer or something like that, or even just a really out there content creator, you can put the car, the business, the business card on someone’s phone, and it will open up a website to your exclusive dot links page.

So you can sort of share really quickly and easily your profile and your links and whatnot. Most of most of that stuff is available free to creators. Just being product platform, sort of effected in some of it you can purchase through the online store that we’ve got. We have a, a competitive recruiter program where recruiters and promote is going to in 5% of the sales and subscriptions earned by creators, but all the funds you generate, all the funds you generate from creative sales are actually taken out of the exclusive lives side of it.

So we, 80, 80, 20 split, we actually pay out 5% out of our 20% because it’s not fair to other fellow creators to be taxed for being recruited. Oh, that

Speaker 1 (31m 19s): Makes sense. Sure.

Speaker 2 (31m 21s): Let’s just not fair.

Speaker 1 (31m 22s): Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. So what sort of go ahead. I’m sorry.

Speaker 2 (31m 27s): Oh, sorry. Yeah, you’re right. We also have a studio and influence agreements which have bonus perks for those who can send us a lodge traffic base. If they’re interested in working with us. Very

Speaker 1 (31m 42s): Good. Now, what sort of content is trending at the moment?

Speaker 2 (31m 47s): Well, unexclusive life we’re seeing, I guess we’re seeing trends in the shot at home-style content sorta like home home studio content, not the top of studio con like content with makeup and the lights and the whole production crew, but more of like a real roll Paik. And does somebody’s intimate life, I guess. And we’re also seeing like the social media model style, self shot Ludes and nudes with the filters.

That kind of what you would almost see on Instagram, but just without clothes. Sure. Yeah. So right now it feels like scrolling through your feed on exclusive life. It’s quite easy to forget that you’re on a site that promotes and allows adult content and not one of the, the big social media platforms like Instagram.

Speaker 1 (32m 46s): That’s a, that’s a nice crossover. Do you think there’s still a market for studio content? Ah,

Speaker 2 (32m 54s): Always be, they’ll always be a, a market for studio content. In most cases, studio content is made of a much higher quality than then your home stuff. I’m not discrediting the home studio people, but you know, like the big budgets they have the budgets and the models and the equipment and the operators. And they’re able to turn out a solar product every time. Right. But with COVID and all that other stuff that’s happening, you know, we’re seeing a rise in the homestyle content

Speaker 1 (33m 28s): And it’s not, and it’s not going away.

Speaker 2 (33m 31s): Absolutely not. And we’re seeing the, the, the content creators, the self, the home homemade self self-made content creators being invited to the large biggest studios now and, you know, getting big deals out of it. And

Speaker 1 (33m 47s): Hey, you know, I was, I was reading a, I was reading an article in Bloomberg about only fans and they said they have several creators that make over a million dollars a year.

Speaker 2 (34m 1s): That’s amazing. Okay. Think about it. But one thing I, I saw that I thought was very interesting was a large studio. Once I lodge a well-known studio, they’ve recreating the self shot, social media style content, and it was a full, a full 51 minute feature film shot in vertical mode. You know, it’s a portrait landscape. And they even had like in the intros, they had like the Instagram story bars and the like, it, it was just, so now we’ve got high-end studio style recreating, social media, self shot, style content, and interesting.

I, I really liked it. I thought that was very clever as a photographer and videographer myself. I still work with local creators lock downs pending to help make content for their pages. But the style they are after these days is sort of like high-end promotional editorial style content, almost like an extension to the social media style we’ve been talking about, like, it’s just that little bit more refined because they still want to try and keep that self shot look, I guess.


Speaker 1 (35m 21s): Right. So what do you think the overall future is of porn?

Speaker 2 (35m 26s): This is a pretty hot topic at the moment, and I really love hearing other people’s opinions and views on it. I’ve been around a while, not as long as some, but still a little while. And if you had to told me, when I first started Zack in 10 years, time, girls are going to be taking photos with their phones and uploading it to a Facebook style website, making tens, hundreds, or even thousands, millions of dollars. I wouldn’t have believed you no, you know, phones aren’t that good 10 years ago, you know, but here we are, it happened a lot faster than 10.

It was what five years ago, we started seeing anybody now can become a content creator and start selling it’s more and more socially acceptable to have one of those online side hustles. People would never consider some people who would never consider putting risque photos online. Now, some of the world’s highest earners and they just didn’t know it, you know? Sure. And it doesn’t even have to be porn these days.

It can be bikini or lingerie, pigs, or even erotic stories written or spoken ASM art. It’s, you know, it’s extremely easy to get into all you really need is an idea, a phone, the internet, and a little bit of confidence. So

Speaker 1 (36m 50s): You think things are going to get a lot more competitive

Speaker 2 (36m 53s): In the future. Absolutely. If anything, in the last 12 to 18 months has shown us about growth in popularity. And as I said, becoming more and more socially acceptable to have these online side hustles, the market is going to get more competitive. This will make it harder for people who are just turning 18 or 21, depending on where you are. I’m not sure about overseas laws. It’ll make it hard for them to just who are entering the market.

And it may even start putting the squeeze on already established content creators themselves, but with the right mindset and goals set, and anyone, anyone entering the market can earn a modest living with their phone or internet. And in turn, as it becomes more socially acceptable to make and sell adult content, it’s also becoming acceptable and encouraged to pay for adult content and porn.

Being able to buy directly from the content creator themselves, whether it’s one exclusive life or any other of the platforms you are supporting the, the creator individually under reading that we have a small percentage, but most of it, our margins are small. They go directly to the content creator and you are helping individuals make the rent, buy the food, pay for schooling. And as a whole, I think that’s pretty awesome.

You know, like we, we’re giving people the ability to earn, you know, some girls, some content creators are they’re earning tens of thousands dollars and it’s, it’s all coming through our platform. It’s a little bit humbling. And I,

Speaker 1 (38m 42s): So do you have any tips for someone either wanting to start as a creator or is already

Speaker 2 (38m 50s): Watching from, from 60 snaps and the girls in the, in the early days through to now the biggest advice I think I can give is find your niche, find what you like doing what you’re good at, then find out what your viewers want, what your potential members want to see. You do keep consistent posting regularly, all that sort of stuff. Interact with possible DMS, replying to comments, going live, use all the tools available like exclusive life gives you lots of tools.

We have post scheduling. We’ve just implemented our own link tree sort of thing. So everything’s old, in-house automatic posting to Twitter, all that business, talk to the other creators, exclusive, lawful, wherever you are, you know, find, find a group of them and ask them what works for them. You know, get feedback, you know, cross promote yourself on other platforms. You can’t put everything out on Instagram and Facebook, but if you can try and keep them separate, they are very powerful marketing programs, Reddit, you know, if you know how to utilize Reddit use it.

There’s an untapped amount of potential earnings in facade, Reddit, and utilize affiliate programs. You know, people go through a lot of work to build the affiliate and set up the affiliate programs you use them take advantage of, take advantage of them right

Speaker 1 (40m 25s): Now. I understand you have an affiliate program. How’s it doing?

Speaker 2 (40m 29s): An affiliate program is currently in a private beta. We’re just still sort of testing it, looking for bugs, but it’s currently, it’s showing really promising results for the people that we who were using it at the moment, much like our recruiter program, our affiliate program is all managed. In-house links, premier content statistics. It’s all managed. In-house your earnings as an affiliate, go into your exclusive balance as if you were a content creator.

So, you know, it’s all kept there. It’s got a few little features that were, was really quite exciting and it’s taken a lot of work to get right. Again, we’re not sure might be the first for the industry. Earlier this year, I was speaking with a webcam model coach at one of the online trade shows that we have ex ex biz cover. Can’t remember which one it was now.

And I was speaking with her and she said, it feels like the internet is run from behind a curtain, webmasters traffic deals, media buys, unless you’re both a content creator and a webmaster, or you have a webmaster on your team, you’re going to have a hard time reaching that next level of success. And so I was talking, you know, we had a bit of a meeting and we came up with an idea to help put the creators in charge of the business side of their profile as well, like their, their, their sales, like they almost like a bit of a business CEO for themselves.

And I don’t want to go into too much detail because it’s still not released, but affiliate we’ve given the chance for creators to opt in or out of the affiliate program, set their own affiliate commission rights on per transaction type. But one of the most exciting features is the affiliate offer feature with the affiliate offer feature affiliates who have signed up, can browse a list of creators, filter them by name type tags, niche, whatever.

And then they can send an offer to that one particular creator or a group of them and alpha. And so for example, the best way to explain it is, you know, someone with a lot of Asian niche, traffic can find one of our Asian themed content creators and say, Hey, I can send 50,000 targeted visitors to your profile. Let’s do a 50 50 split on initial sales. And then, you know, a 30, 70 on rebuilds guys, you know, and then from there they can sorta talk back and forth, work it out, negotiate an offer, and went from there once accepted all the links and all that, the statistics and that old generated inside each users area and buzz area.

Sounds cool. Yeah. It’s we hope that, you know, our, our content creators and future affiliates will, will utilize it. It’s taken a lot of work to get it, to get it there, but we think it should be available to everyone pretty soon. We’re thinking of bundling it with the recruiter program and calling it something like the exclusive life partner program. Well, something, something fun. Like that

Speaker 1 (43m 57s): Sounds like a good name. So what is the future of exclusive life? And what’s in your new,

Speaker 2 (44m 4s): The exclusive life in the short term, we want to finalize with all the news going on. We want to finalize a few more features to give creators more options, help maximize the earnings. After that, I really want to crack into the streaming market. We’ve got plans drawn up for a hybrid of like a cam, excuse me, a cam site, cross livestreaming, sorta like Twitch. Cool create will be at a strain by that mobile or desktop interact with their fans, et cetera.

We’ve had some queries about creators, opening up shop fronts and being able to send, sell branded or printed products like calendars, sheds w coolers. There’s a tick tock trend where they’re getting them cigarette lot is getting like nudes printed on cigarette lot is they want to try and sell that Ava one creative. She asked if she could sell her molds of her breasts and bits, almost like an adult Etsy. Interesting. Long-term want to try and keep meeting the needs and ambitions of our content creators and stay committed to delivering a high quality service to our content creators, keep normalizing sex work, especially when it comes to the handling of sales for online content.

Like it’s just, if a bank finds out, that’s what you’re doing. You know, they’re starting to collect, especially in Australia that it’s very old views. You know, one of the big banks here says, where did you get your money from? And if you say, oh, I did it like this, then you know your risk of losing your bank. And if you’ve got any loans with them, it just gets messy and yucky, you know, keep food for us. And he might keep trying to close the gap between social media and porn, you know, cause like Instagram, the news, the new says Instagram is going to try and put in like a pay wall for certain content, keep challenging and challenging the needs, exceeding and redefining goals.

And for me, myself, I really want to get back into content production. Back when I started expanding my skills portfolio have drafted up some ideas and I’ve got some concepts on something I really want to try and get started. I think they’re going to be really fun. Cool. And of course, when, when I get there and I get, get them made, I’m going to use exclusive life as the content delivery platform hope. And who knows, maybe I’ll get to come back here and tell you about those projects.

Speaker 1 (46m 43s): I look forward to Zach. Well, Hey, thanks again for being our guest on adult side broker talk and I’ll look forward to that future conversation.

Speaker 2 (46m 52s): It’s been great.

Speaker 1 (46m 53s): My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well is your content been protected from piracy? And what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy, takedown or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates. The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be. What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use?

What content management system software is on your site. Do you use billing or affiliate software like gnats or MPA three? What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day? Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend a producer by the content that’s on your site?

What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about the website? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all of the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a nondisclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don’t know.

Maybe adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours. And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price in any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with attorney Michael Fattorosi. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Zak Ozbourne. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with social media guru Jason Hunt.

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And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker.
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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale. That adult site broker, we’re proud to introduce for sale a transgender tube site with over 120,000 unique visitors daily, the site is a custom built tube. Videos are encoded at a very high quality. There are four grades of video. It will auto adapt to the best quality based on the user’s connection. Premium quality and downloads are only available to members who have a paid account. The site script can take a lot of traffic with a current server being an only a five to 10% load.

There are over 30,000 videos. Retention rate is 85%, only $274,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site, broker talk is Jason Hunt of merged media. In fact, Jason was one of our first guests when we started the podcast. Jason, thanks for being with us again today on adult side broker talk, I am super pumped to be back. Thanks for having me, Bruce. I’m super pumped to have you.

Now we’ll tell everybody about your company. Merge media is a full service digital marketing agency. Their services include web design, SEO, SEM, and social media marketing. Jason is the founder of fresh crowd, which was a successful social media marketing company that merged into merged media a few years back. Thus, the name merged media Jason’s team is located in Ontario, Canada. Jason is of course the social media arm of the company. He uses Facebook and Instagram advertising to grow your business.

Their services range from social media management to Facebook and Instagram advertising. Their social media marketing services are strictly meant to help business owners. Like you reach a wider audience, increase the traffic to your website, expand brand awareness, convert more leads to sales, improve customer satisfaction, and become a thought leader in your community. So, Jason, how was that for a commercial?

Speaker 2 (3m 42s): You know, I need to bring you on tour with me. I think Bruce was very impressed with that intro. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (3m 48s): My pleasure. So let’s talk about the power of Facebook in 2021. How well is it still?

Speaker 2 (3m 56s): Yeah, I love that question. It’s a good question. A lot of people wouldn’t know to ask that question because you know, they don’t, they’re not, they don’t really know that how much Facebook actually changes and it changes. It seems like every couple of months, there’s some sort of a change, whether it’s a new ad placement, whether it’s, you know, new restrictions or policies that have been added in and, or a new account manager with Facebook, things are just always changing on the platform. But in 2021, is it still working? Absolutely. I mean, look at it. Like even people are spending tons of hundreds of thousands of dollars on billboards on next to freeways because they want that attention.

They want the traffic that’s going by that billboard and Facebook is the highway that has all the traffic. So, so people are that people are definitely still taking advantage of it, but you just need to be smart with the way you’re using the platform you need to, you can’t be hitting the boost button. You need to start optimizing for certain actions. You actually want your users to take whether it’s traffic to your website, whether it’s putting in their information on a Facebook lead form or whether it’s engaging or watching video content, whatever it is, whatever you tell Facebook to do, they’ll do it.

So, you know, the power of Facebook in 2021, well, we’re doing a lot more nurturing prior to asking on Facebook more so than we ever have. You know, we used to run a lot of, you know, aggressive ads towards cold audiences. They’re not as effective as they used to be. And you really do need to get them in your ecosystem by using some sort of a value proposition.

Speaker 1 (5m 26s): Interesting. So I shouldn’t just hit the boost button

Speaker 2 (5m 30s): Don’t ever hit that boost button. Now it’s tempting, Bruce. Okay. I know you’re a button smasher. You’re like, oh man,

Speaker 1 (5m 35s): I gotta tell you. I love buttons.

Speaker 2 (5m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. Don’t hit the boost button though. You’re you’re what you’re doing. Anybody who presses that boost button and says, I’ll throw $10 a day and hit this button and, and play Facebook will take your money if you give it to them. Oh yeah. That’s easy. It’s easy way to give Facebook money. It’s putting Facebook and Facebook slot machine, you know, but what you’re doing is you’re telling Facebook to go and get your ads in front of people, put your ads in front of people that have a tendency to scroll through content. Because like going back to what I just said a second ago, you’re telling Facebook to put your ads in front of people that take a certain action.

So if you sit boost, you’re optimizing for awareness. So what’s happening here is Facebook is being like, okay, well, let’s see here, Bruce wants to put his ad in front of anybody. That’s 18 plus living in the us. Cool. And here goes your ad. They’ll just throw your ad out there. But what they’re going to do is they’re going to find all those people that are not being targeted by those savvy marketers that are looking for the people that are clicking on content and becoming leads and buying stuff and all that stuff. You’re optimizing for the people that just fire through content all day long. So that’s who you’re going to get, get what you pay for garbage.

Exactly. So that’s what happens when you boost, that was kind of a long winded explanation of boost, but I think,

Speaker 1 (6m 48s): Okay. So, okay. Yeah, we can be long-winded on this podcast. We don’t have a time limit. Jason. We can talk, we can talk about Facebook and social media for three hours if you want. And it’s, it’s perfectly okay if you’re, if you still have, if you still have a voice it’s okay.

Speaker 2 (7m 4s): Exactly. And plus it’s going to be way past my bedtime, but that’s okay. That’s true.

Speaker 1 (7m 9s): That’s true. As we record this late in Jason’s evening after the kids have gone to bed.

Speaker 2 (7m 16s): Oh good. I’m an, I’m a night person. I actually prefer to work at night to be completely honest. So there you go.

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): Now I used to be, when I was younger now, how would someone lower their ad costs on Facebook? I guess not by hitting the boost button.

Speaker 2 (7m 32s): Yeah. You want to definitely avoid that. I mean, lower costs. It’s very easy to generate low cost. And then one of the ways to do that is by open targeting. What that means is, is, you know, people like to take advantage of all the interests. Like I want to target, for example, small business owners or people that like this person or this athlete or this public figure or this model, you can do that. That’s great. But think about all the people on Facebook, especially since Cambridge Analytica happened, that decided not to give any information to Facebook.

There’s a lot of people out there that are in your target audience, state, you don’t know how to get in touch with them, but those people might have the same tendencies as your customers, as your ideal clients. Facebook knows whether those people have a tendency to click on content and purchase online. Not everybody does that. Facebook knows if you have a, if your audience, you know, spends a certain amount of time watching a type of video, you know, Facebook knows that they might not label, you know, Turks and Caicos as an interest on their Facebook page, but maybe they watch a ton of videos from Turks in case goes, well, there you go.

Facebook knows this person likes Turks and Caicos, right? So I think to lower your ad costs, what you need to do is just try to target as big an audience as possible, especially if you’re targeting a cold audience.

Speaker 1 (8m 46s): Okay. Is it better to target a cold audience or a warm audience?

Speaker 2 (8m 51s): Oh, well you always want to get to a warm audience. That’s definitely what you want to do. But when you’re starting out, especially testing, you want to have it as big of an audience as possible. Now what happens here is once Facebook understands the audience that you’re after, they’ll get your ads in front of people that look like your customers more frequently, usually after the learning phase phase, which is a better week long. But to go back to your question, retargeting is so important because you want to increase that ad frequency. Usually the first time somebody sees one of your ads, they’re probably just going to, they’re going to blow right past it and not think twice about it, but it’s continually getting in front of them, increasing the ad frequency to about four or five or six, meaning that person seeing your ad about four or five or six times.

And then it becomes familiar. And that’s when it gets really fun. Because now you can get certain types of ads in front of those people that are familiar with your brand, such as, you know, addressing objections. Why wouldn’t somebody purchase your product? Why wouldn’t somebody trust Bruce to sell their adult website? Well, let’s address that with a testimonial ad to a retargeting audience. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (9m 50s): Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. You know, as you know, I spent forever and radio and the one thing you learn right away in radio is it is all about frequency it and it’s, it’s really the same with all advertising, right?

Speaker 2 (10m 5s): I, I like, I like thinking of it this way. You know, it’s like even people, you know, we go to a lot of the same trade shows and events and you know, people that go to these events is spend a lot of cash to get some banner space, which is awesome. But you need to compliment those efforts because if you’re spending so much money on a banner, on an event or at a meat market, then why aren’t you using Facebook as a target those people at that physical location? You know, you don’t have to spend a lot on that Facebook ad. You can spend 50 bucks and target a physical location at a same place where they’re going to be seeing your banners all over the place.

That’s increasing the ad frequency that we’re talking about, same as the radio, right? If somebody that does radio, if you’re targeting a certain town or city or area where you better be running some Facebook ads to that same area, right. To just increase that ad frequency.

Speaker 1 (10m 50s): Yeah. And you have, you have clients, I think quite a few clients who do trade shows. So they buy off on that concept.

Speaker 2 (10m 59s): Oh yeah. A hundred percent. And I mean, even working with the events themselves, you know what I mean? There’s, you know, targeting people that are at the physical event, you know, if you want to get a certain message in front of them, there’s still, you can get so creative with it. If you’re an event, you know, partner, and this is one thing, just going back to the very first question, but the power of Facebook in 2021, using some of the connections that you have, you know, in, in kind of your network or your community to piggyback off each other, you know, like, like a great example of this is we work with a magazine. It’s a real estate magazine, but now we’re using that platform, which has, I believe it was like 43,000 followers.

And we’re using that platform to have like people that want to get in front of real estate brokers are using their platform, their branding and advertising their products under that brand. Sure. It’s it just gives additional credibility to the actual product itself instead of a product selling their product on their own page, right. The product selling their on a high authority page. Sure. I’ll try to get influencer.

Speaker 1 (11m 57s): Absolutely. Now how can an adult business best used Facebook?

Speaker 2 (12m 2s): Okay. So the best way to do it and, and seeing this done successfully is the use of a lead magnet that is not in any way, shape or form related to adult. Facebook’s getting savvier by the day at sniffing out a lot of the users that go against policy. There are blackout marketers out there. You can talk to them. It’s not really my, my lane. I’m a white hat guy, but for me, if, if, if to work at working with our businesses, it’s, Hey, let’s use Facebook as the platform to get that information we need from them, right?

Use Facebook to get them off of Facebook. I use Facebook to get that name, email, phone number in some cases, or, you know, any other additional questions you might have and get them over to email and have a very solid nurture sequence because in emails where you’re going to sell them, you’re not going to sell them on Facebook. So let’s take your steak. For example, let’s take out site broker. I think it’s a great example. You want to target people that you’re a little easier than a typical adult site because Facebook doesn’t frown on. Like, it would a lot of other ones. So let’s talk about, let’s talk about something else.

Talk about dating. Okay. So in the case of dating, you know, dating is very difficult to advertise on Facebook. So why not create a piece of content? We can call it a lead magnet, a white paper, downloadable PDF about the top five places to take your dream date. You know, something like that, top five places to impress your dream date, right? That’s a great little lead magnet for a guy that single that’s trying to get, get out there and start to start to mingle, right? So why not?

You know, something like that, what would be more than willing to submit their name and email in exchange for this downloadable PDF for lead magnet, which could even exist on somebody’s blog? That’s the thing. If you’re like, where am I going to get this content? Go look at your blog. You probably have some great content on there that you can turn into a white paper that is just enticing enough for people to provide their contact information, to receive it in return. So, so going down that, that avenue. So now that person submits their name and email in exchange for that, you know, top five ways to impress your dream date, lead magnet.

And now you have the sequence of emails that are following that up. You’ve now filtered this person off of Facebook to be one of your ideal sweet spot clients. Now it’s on you to just nurture them, to getting them to sign up to your program. It’s just using it in that type of a way where you’re not so direct with the sale.

Speaker 1 (14m 22s): Isn’t it? Don’t you find it difficult though, in your business to get adult companies, to even consider Facebook

Speaker 2 (14m 30s): Book a hundred percent. Yeah. That is tricky. And it’s funny because you know, I get that question every single time I go and speak at TES or internet straight, you know, I I’ll always get that question. And it’s the thing is you just kinda gotta understand that it’s not, you’re not going to get that ROI right away. It’s not going to happen. Yeah. And you do to deploy patients. It’s not like, Hey, let’s just try a three-day test. Like you might say to a website to try the traffic. It’s not like that because of the abilities that we have to target and retarget, you have to give it some time.

So that first month, you know, we’re deploying a lot of different types of creative, a lot of different types of copy headlines. And we’re testing everything against different audiences to find the winning combination. And then once we find the winning combination number doubling down on what works, and that is kind of, you know, it’s, it’s, I’m losing my train of thought here, but where are we going with that?

Speaker 1 (15m 25s): Mine goes off the track many times a day. No, I mean, do you have to, do you have trouble convincing and I’m older than you, you have trouble convincing adult companies to even try Facebook.

Speaker 2 (15m 37s): Yeah. It, it, and it’s just, it’s just having that patient. So we’ve worked at quite a bit of adult and it’s, it’s just having the patients with it, you know, almost giving it, you got to give it 90 days in terms of convincing. It does get tricky because Facebook’s just that thing. It’s a, it’s a huge audience, but people are not really taking advantage of it because they don’t necessarily know the right strategies to take, to get that audience to convert because there are other places out there that you don’t have that you might be able to get an easier conversion. But this one here is just more about building the brand, any sort of company out there.

If you’re an adult company, use Facebook to build a brand, get people familiar with your brand and then use the opportunity to sell them over email, not on Facebook.

Speaker 1 (16m 19s): Okay. Now, how are you using Facebook with SEO? I know you guys obviously have an SEO department, which I’m utilizing, how do you put the two?

Speaker 2 (16m 29s): Yeah, sure. So that was one of the big reasons why I merged my company in the first place was to merge it with an SEO company. So we can take advantage of, of some of that direct traffic that’s hitting the site, the high intent stuff. Right. You know, that’s, if you’re getting a lot of traffic from SEO, that’s high intent it’s for, for whatever, let’s say adult site broker, you know, let’s say, you know, you’re getting a lot of people looking to sell websites. Well, we want to make sure we have a Facebook pixel installed in your site so we can get the right message in front of those people, that hot audience that’s seeking out your services.

Right. And it’s going to be a very specific message that we’re going to hit them with a Facebook ad. It’s again, increasing the ad frequency. If somebody goes and searches for how to sell an ad on a website, they might click on a few sites. But if they click on auto site broker, and then, you know, five minutes later when they’re on Instagram to see a swipe up ad for like, Hey, did you know, did you know, how have you met Bruce? Do you know, Bruce, Bruce has all these contacts. He has a massive Rolodex. He can sell your adult site and no time, you know what I mean? Like something that is just going to like, get them back over to your website. That’s the key. Right? You want to get the back over there and stay top of mind and that’s that, that it just helps compliment that, that SEO high intent SEO traffic.


Speaker 1 (17m 39s): Hm. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. We’ll have to talk about that now is blogging because we haven’t done the two together is blogging still important, 20, 21. And why? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17m 52s): You know, we, we have a pretty hefty blogging, or I guess you could say copywriting department merged and it’s, it’s super huge. We use certain there’s certain tools that we use to make sure that, you know, we’re ranking amongst the competitors. I, I definitely think it is still important in terms of, and I’ve had this conversation with some industry people as well. It’s like, should I use my, you know, my blog has an opportunity to make it really like SEO out. I guess you could say, you know, like the SEO using these tools like surfer SEO to make sure that you’re ranking or do I just continue to create this blog?

That’s very lifestyle oriented talking about my life because it is two different types of writing. Now on that side of it, I don’t know if that’s the best route to take is continuing to write that personal blog. If I would be suggesting vlogging, because people have a tendency to watch videos more often than not, we’re on the SEO side. You know, if we’re doing blogging for SEO, it’s like, it’s very high intent searches. So I still think it serves a purpose on the SEO side, but on the other flip side of it, I just don’t know if people have the attention anymore to be digesting or consuming, you know, personal blog content.

I just think flogs is the way to go. I could be wrong with that, but just from what I see, you see a lot more traction with blogging and on social media obviously then than you do and, and just writing a personal piece on a blog.

Speaker 1 (19m 15s): Okay. Well, what about, what about blogging when it isn’t connected to social media?

Speaker 2 (19m 22s): Yeah. So if you mean just like on the website, you mean

Speaker 1 (19m 27s): As an SEO tool?

Speaker 2 (19m 29s): Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. That’s, that’s where we’re, we’re always utilizing that with every single client that signs up. We want to make sure we have a, you know, a blog content that’s going out there on a consistent, consistent basis. And, and, you know, obviously, because things are always changing in search, we just had a, a Google update happened there a couple months back. So, yeah, luckily, right. So just, you got to stay on top of that and pumping up blog content on a consistent basis is, is always important because your keywords and the volume of keywords that are being searched is always changing as well.

Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20m 0s): Sure. Now this is kind of a loaded question, but I’ll ask it in any way, should a business hire someone internally or outsource their digital marketing and why? Yes.

Speaker 2 (20m 12s): Yeah. So, you know, it’s, it’s a good question because it really depends on where we are businesses at, right? Like in a lot of cases, sometimes it’s good. If you’re a massive businesses having, you know, you have a massive budget to spend each month on, on SEO, SEM and social. Sometimes it’s good to have a point person internally that is kind of navigating those waters, you know, communicating with that team because you know, this is kind of why, you know, my business did create the one-stop digital shop is because we have all of those individual areas and how so business owners don’t need to deal with somebody for their Google ads, a different person for their SEO, a different person for social and other, for their website.

It just makes life so much easier for our clients. But there are benefits to hiring that internal person at a bigger company because that point person will be the liaison for all of those other departments. And one person cannot, cannot, cannot have the, the skillset required for all of those different departments. There’s technical, there’s creative, there’s analytical. It’s just, it’s tough for one person to encompass all those skillsets. And that’s why you kind of need a team to do it for you. So I would say, I would say hiring a hybrid of the two, or if you don’t have the, the funds to hire somebody internally, then hire that one-stop shop that can take care of, for take care of all of it for you in house.

Speaker 1 (21m 27s): I think that when you say that, I think it’s really important to 0.1 thing out because I have experienced it with our marketing company. I talk to people and they go, oh, we have marketing in house. And what you come to find out is they’ve got a recent college graduate handling their marketing and in your case handling their social media. So maybe you should talk about guarding against having someone who maybe isn’t an expert.

Speaker 2 (21m 58s): Well, you know what, that’s your brand. And, and, you know, you want to have somebody to just test with your brand and test with your money, or do you want to hire somebody that’s experienced, right. And I think a big benefit of hiring outsourcing it is, you know, you can really get an entire team at the fraction of the cost of hiring somebody, you know, internal. And I think that’s, I think that’s very important. I think, cause you got to factor in your ad, spend, the ad spend is not, not included in that employee’s salary, you know? So you gotta factor that in as well.

And I think that is kind of a sweet spot for us is, is those businesses out there that, that do have that realization that they, they, there isn’t a better solution out there that has a better skill set at a cheaper price.

Speaker 1 (22m 40s): But you, I mean, you guys work with some larger companies too, right.

Speaker 2 (22m 44s): A hundred percent and those companies, and that’s where I mentioned the hybrid. It actually works really well if we’re working with a marketing director at a company directly with them because it takes away that element of having to educate them as well, which happens a lot with business owners. You know, I tell that to business owners, it’s like, Hey, you focus on your one thing and we’ll focus on our one thing. And then we’ll talk at that at the results at the end of month, you know what I mean? That’s kinda, that’s kind of a situation that we want, but with a marketing director, when we’re working directly with the marketing director, we don’t need to have any, there’s no education involved. It’s all about the numbers.

It’s all about getting to point B as quickly.

Speaker 1 (23m 16s): It’s possible. You hope so. You hope so hope so. Just like people shouldn’t be selling their own websites now, shameless plug number one. Now how is merged media building its brand in 2021?

Speaker 2 (23m 34s): Yeah. So, so back to the narrative of, of building brand, I think it’s important. I mean, I’m, I’m the brand ambassador for us and I’m fortunate to have an awesome team behind me. That’s a lot better doing those jobs than I am. And one of the biggest things that we did when the pandemic hit is we started a podcast and we’re creeping up to episode 100, which is going to be

Speaker 1 (23m 54s): Actually

Speaker 2 (23m 55s): That’s great. And you’ll, and I think this is it’s good because this is episode 65.

Speaker 1 (24m 2s): Well, by the time this runs, it’ll probably be 75 or 78 or so, but, but this week, the week we’re taping this it’s going to be 66. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24m 15s): Yeah. Okay. So, and this is the important thing and, and, and well, congrats to you as well, because it’s not that easy to get the 65 episodes. It’s, you know, this, and I think it’s a big, it’s a big challenge being consistent. And, and we talked briefly about this before we went live here and that’s, you know, I’ve had a couple of times where it’s been like the F like we go live every Tuesday and on the Friday prior, we still didn’t have an episode lined up for the Tuesday. So I’d be, I’d be sitting there for an hour, just DM-ing people on Instagram, just trying to get a podcast guest.

You didn’t call me,

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): You didn’t call me. You know, now my feelings are really hurt.

Speaker 2 (24m 53s): You’re on the street style through, so, okay. I think you’re like number 12 and I got the number nine and locks. So

Speaker 1 (25m 2s): I feel better kind of,

Speaker 2 (25m 5s): Yeah. We just need a topic and we can’t talk about the 49ers and we’re not going to talk about the giants. Okay. Come on. So, so, well, yeah. So what, what I was getting to there with that was that you have to be consistent with the podcast. And, and this is one of the ways we’re building our brand in 2021 is being consistent with the podcast. But that podcast, when we do it, no intention is to sell was not about selling it all. It’s a PR like I had a girl on last week talking about the power of the moon and how people can use the power of the moon to better their business.

And This has nothing to do with, there’s no business there for me, but what it might do is provide some value to my audience. And that’s what I’m leading with with that. Because a lot of the times

Speaker 1 (25m 48s): The moon, I think the 49ers and giants would be a better topic, but maybe they’re slightly prejudiced.

Speaker 2 (25m 54s): Fair enough. But yeah, but it’s, it’s how it was using the power of the moon to who’s geared towards entrepreneurs to better your business. She’s a realtor and she uses the power of the moon, the cell houses. It’s crazy. Like she’ll have conversations. So say the murders in the third quarter right now, let’s not sell this house yet. Let’s just wait until it’s full and then we’ll put it on the market. No, that’s not true there really well. Anyway, go listen to that podcast episode on the merge marketing podcast, shameless plug for myself.

Yeah. But, but with the podcast, I think it’s one of the best things that we’ve done just by bringing that top of top of funnel awareness. It’s been really good because there’s not, it’s rare that have a conversation now with somebody that signs up as a client that did not, at some point, listen to the podcast and have something to say about it. So

Speaker 1 (26m 42s): You were one of my main influences to do this. I remember I had you and a couple of other people telling me I should do a podcast. And I think you kind of pushed it over the edge. You said, do

Speaker 2 (26m 52s): A podcast. And I said, okay, damn it. I’m going to do a podcast. And yeah, it’s been awesome. It’s been, it’s been completely awesome. Yeah. And it’s, you know what, it’s, it’s probably one of the funnest things I do. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27m 5s): I love, and I’m a writer, I’m a former radio guy. So, you know, it’s kinda, you never get that out of your blood. So, so is podcasting for everyone.

Speaker 2 (27m 14s): I, you know, I, I do think there is a place, if you can carve out a certain niche, you know what I mean? It’s, I think it’s very, you know, the point of entry is very easy, you know, we’re just having a simple conversation here on Skype. Right. And, and it’s being recorded for ours. It’s, it’s really like I’m using a platform called stream yard. So I capture the video content. Yep. So what happens is we’re going live on Facebook and then I’m sending that over to my team. Who’s cutting it up and grabbing little short 32nd clips.

So we can put those clips on Instagram. Facebook’s Tik TOK, LinkedIn, they’re going everywhere. And, and then from there we have the actual audio which goes live whenever we launch it on, we launch on Tuesdays. And then, and then from there, it’s just like basically following up. And, and, and it’s, we’re creating blog content off of those podcast episodes as well. So there’s a lot happening behind the scenes for it. And I think that’s the key. If you have that infrastructure set up, or you have a team around you that can take care of a lot of those tasks and there’s tons of companies out there that can help you actually automate a lot of that stuff, then it makes it easy.

You just have to show up and have conversations relevant to the audience that you’re trying to target. That’s important. Like don’t make it for everybody, make it for a very specific audience because you know, the closer you can marry that with your audience and, and outside broker talk is a great example of that, right. Is, is, is you could see better results and you get better retention and people will subscribe because they’re going to get consistent content. We can, we go?

Speaker 1 (28m 41s): That’s true. Yeah. And we have some great guests like you. So what are some best practices for marketing apart?

Speaker 2 (28m 49s): Yeah, I think definitely using social media is a great way to do it. Like I just said, getting, getting some clips cut up. If you can do a video, it’s a, it’s a bonus. If not there’s platforms out there like headliner, if you just have audio based, you can throw an audio. And they do like those little radio waves and stuff like that. You can do some, do some funky video stuff with just the audio, but, you know, doing that is important. And, and like I said, carving out that audience using Facebook ads is a great way to do it. We’re spending, we’re spending just about 30, 40 bucks a day to drive listens to our podcast.

And one of the things we’re doing. So for example, we had a podcast episode with the sales automation guy. So all the clips from that episode, I’m targeting a very open audience in north America, people that are salespeople so much, like we talked about earlier, having an open audience, it’s pretty open. I’m targeting anybody with any sort of affiliation with sales throughout north America, millions and millions of people. And yeah, but it’s getting the right content in front of the right person. There’s another one. Like for example, the moon episode, I am not going to target that same audience.

I’m not going to target salespeople. She specifically focuses on female entrepreneurs. So I’m going to target that episode strictly geared towards female entrepreneurs. And, and that’s the point is that every episode you try to carve out a niche and try to target that, that niche with that episode. And you’ll, you’ll find yourself getting listens. Sure.

Speaker 1 (30m 16s): Now you have in the past pre pandemic, I got to talk about that in every episode, it gets old. You have certainly been a regular at many conferences. Are you planning on going to any this year?

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): I would love to. I love to. Yeah. You know, I’m, I’m dying to get out to Prague. I’d like to go to Prague. Unfortunately, I just got to wait for the regulations here in Canada, just to, I think they’re easing up, but I just want to keep a close tally on that. So that’d be kind of a last minute. And then, you know, there’s a affiliate grand slam happening in Malta in December and, you know, affiliate summit. So there’s a lot that I definitely want to check out. And obviously the virtual way is the way that a lot of conferences are happening.

Now. I actually had a conversation today with somebody from burning man burning man is you’ve heard of the burning man festival. Sure. Yeah. So burning, man’s going virtual now, which is kind of interesting because if you go to the website, it’s quite interesting. They’re trying to create the exact experience of in the middle of the desert online, which is very interesting, but they have a stage geared towards like, you know, they have a self-help stage and they have a stage geared towards, you know, wellbeing, wellness, anti-aging all this stuff. And, and somehow they’re putting me on there to speak about, you know, the gift of giving and giving away freebies.

So I’m going to be talking a bit about that, which is interesting, which is the approach that everybody should be doing on Facebook, right. That we’re talking about here and then just taking it off of Facebook and it kind of applies to any sort of marketing. Right?

Speaker 1 (31m 55s): Absolutely. So what are your thoughts about these virtual and hybrid conferences that have emerged last year and this year? Do you think their heritage?

Speaker 2 (32m 4s): Yeah, I think naturally I think there is a large amount of people that have seen how easy they can now network, how networking virtually has become a norm that maybe look at traveling as kind of a hassle in the past. And it was stressful. And, and I think a lot of people would have had an epiphany and been like, you know what, I’m never traveling again. I’m going to hang out here and just watch my, I have my zoom calls and go to virtual conferences. So I think a lot of people may have went that way, but you’re never going to replay it, replace, you know, going out for dinners and the handshakes and the hugs and, and that’s never going to be replaced.

So I definitely think there’s going to be a place for obviously live events there. I think there’s going to be an extra emphasis on how intimate they are. And I think people will appreciate, you know, having face-to-face communication and naturally there’s ones that are not conforming back to live events are going to be missing out on opportunities as well. But I definitely think there is a place for hybrid. I think, you know, I think, well, TES just did a hybrid <inaudible> a couple months ago where they actually had Derek streaming. Those, those talks live online at their virtual conference on Brella, the platform Brella, and, and then they actually had the physical conference.

So I think it’s cool. I think it’s awesome. But then again, I think, I think a lot of event or event promoters might, might worry that that hybrid the virtual side of it will take away an audience. So they might just stick the,

Speaker 1 (33m 30s): I think, based upon their experiences with the hybrid show, I don’t think you can expect to see another hybrid from T E S

Speaker 2 (33m 41s): Yeah. That’s not too many people, obviously. I mean, you can’t just blame the virtual side of it for, for, for that. But I think just COVID itself is just like deterred a lot of people wanting to travel just yet. Right. So, and yeah,

Speaker 1 (33m 56s): What’s up, what’s been the impact on your business with COVID by the way, I would think it’s helped it

Speaker 2 (34m 3s): Originally, when it first hit, we were hit pretty hard. We had, cause we worked with a lot of restaurants, a lot of dental travel business.

Speaker 1 (34m 11s): I forgot about the local aspect.

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): Yeah. So a lot of local businesses were hit really hard, even travel. Like, you know, it was doing a lot with a massive travel company that works with like 3000 travel agents. And for them it was just like business, just marketing budget, stopped business, stopped, everything stopped. There’s nothing you can do. Like you can’t even have a conversation with them and pivot out of that. It’s just really tough to pivot out of that. Like what do you do? You can’t do affiliate or

Speaker 1 (34m 38s): Closed, close, what can you do about we’re closed now?

Speaker 2 (34m 41s): So it’s just, it’s really tough. So, but naturally being in digital marketing, you know, we’re fortunate enough to be in an industry that we, where we can be nimble. And we pivoted to home renovations, landscaping. We actually are part owners of a landscape company. We’re part owners of real estate magazine. So we just, we kind of went with the flow and did a lot of stuff that in those industries that were thriving, people were not spending their money on cruises. They’re spending their money on staycations in their backyard.

So, you know, getting decks, done, getting the kitchen countertops done. So those businesses were thriving and they needed leads. So that’s where we were able to help out specifically. But the landscape company was just went bonkers when COVID hit. And, and these guys are getting hundreds of calls a day from a lot of it’s for big, it goes to the SEO that we’ve been doing for them. So fortunately, when we’re ranking in the top three and all three of those listings come right back to us, it’s, you’re going to get a lot of leads that way.

Speaker 1 (35m 43s): And things are recovering nicely. Now I would imagine.

Speaker 2 (35m 45s): Yeah. Things are well, things are now. Now it’s crazy because now as we come out of the pandemic, hopefully, you know, knock on wood. There’s no fourth and they’re not locked down with the fourth wave, but you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s getting busy. People are, it’s almost like people are kind of panicking now because they see their competition spending and they’re like, oh shit, got to get my ass in gear and start spending some money. So people are getting very anxious to start spending and start getting businesses.

Speaker 1 (36m 13s): Well, Hey, Jason, like to thank you for being our guest again today on adults. I broker tuck and I’m sure we’ll have a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (36m 21s): Yeah. Anytime Bruce. Thanks for having me. Okay. How about

Speaker 1 (36m 24s): Tomorrow?

Speaker 2 (36m 25s): Hmm.

Speaker 1 (36m 26s): Okay. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation. The potential buyers may want to find out about this should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content. Number of images and number of videos. How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years.

If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports get all the information organized in a legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything that a potential buyer needs to know such as are you being sued?

Do you have any substantial debts, et cetera? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer, the leader, find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Zach Osborn of exclusive.life. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Jason Hunt. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult actress Coralyn Jewel.

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The surfers on the site will be hard pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time browsers, bang bros, and just about every other adult networking site. They’ve been growing their email list since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000 in the past six months, their unsubscribe rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well.

This is boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding discount and review platform for only $956,000. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today, adult side broker talk is our returning champion, coral and Juul coral. And thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (3m 8s): Thank you for having me the returning champion. How did I become a champion? That’s what I want to know.

Speaker 1 (3m 12s): I guess you’ve never seen real time with Gilmore.

Speaker 2 (3m 15s): Now.

Speaker 1 (3m 17s): You got to watch it. He uses that for his guests when guests come back on. So I decided I’d use that just for just, I knew you would for kicks and giggles. So let’s tell people about you. Courtland is a perfect example of a woman living by her favorite quote. Patients will prosper. She’s a number one international bestselling author of the book when the ice melts the story of coral and Juul, as well as a working porn star or retired competitive athlete, porn director, swing club, owner, fitness trainer running out of breath, wedding planner, talent manager, voiceover actors, coach, and motivational speaker Cortland Juul is the epitome of a strong, powerful female entrepreneur.

Join her journey through life as a sex worker in a world where judgment is human nature, follow her coaching training sessions, speaking engagements and book signing schedule on Corlon juul.com as well as their social media coral, and also hosts a podcast, which you was truly has been a guest on by the way, it’s called the hanky panky podcast. Love that name and can be founded hanky panky podcast.com. Where else would it be found? So Carlin I’m exhausted already.

Speaker 2 (4m 28s): I’m exhausted listening to that. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 (4m 32s): All the sneeze coming on. Well, that was well that while I was saying that, so yeah, you’re going to have to talk a little bit. So you were last seen being chased around by a poor young writer for why not by the name of Michael McGrady in Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (4m 47s): So,

Speaker 1 (4m 48s): So how has that extended weekend?

Speaker 2 (4m 50s): So Michael was assisting us, I’m working on turning my book into a documentary. So that’s another project on top of everything. And so Michael was helping us with the screenwriting for that. And so we did our first set of scenes. We shot them out in LA and Michael came out from Colorado and we did, I believe he shot nine scenes in two days. And then Michael and I went to kind of enjoy a little bit at casino time or whatever. And then,

Speaker 1 (5m 18s): You know,

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): It’s my escape from reality. I can just sit there and have a glass of wine and push buttons and pray. I like how Michael started his article with me. He said, flag it, flag it, flag it. Cause that’s what the bonus is. Three flags. And then you get to go to the bonus round. It’s the best ever.

Speaker 1 (5m 34s): Oh God. Yeah. I talked to him and we talked about that weekend and it was a I’m sure you’ve well, that’s right. It hasn’t aired yet. So I’m sure. I’m sure you’ll enjoy that. Now. I understand you were at, at exotica for the first time. Was it successful? Did you learn anything?

Speaker 2 (5m 54s): I learned a lot from exotica, so that’s my first time doing an exotic, I’ve done ABNs for years, but never has never had a booth at the ABNs and exotica. I found, I learned a lot more for on the business side for me. So, you know, I brought too much stuff with me, traveling on an airplane and I looked around at other booths to figure out, you know, what’s, eye-catching what brings you, wait, what brings people into your booth? Stuff like that. So that was a learning experience for me. I’ve I came home, I redesigned my entire setup, my banners, my displays, cause I’ve got my CBD personal lubricant.

And so that I learned a lot there. And then I also learned from, I did a seminar there. I did motivational speaking seminar. And I think that what I’m going to do with the next that three exotic does is actually have a piece of paper at my booth that says what time my seminar is, because I can’t tell you, yeah. People would come to me and they were like, you know, it’s seven o’clock tonight. Right? And I’m like, no last night, you know, and they, you know, they missed it. And so I think if I have like a little reminder, so little things, you learn a lot, but I had a great time and I met a bunch of people and I bumped into, they run.

I ran into a lot of old friends I haven’t seen for years. So it was nice.

Speaker 1 (7m 1s): We talked about the seminar called, I believe it’s called in your truth. It’s a sex positive seminar. What kind of feedback have you received on it? And

Speaker 2 (7m 13s): I got amazing feedback on it actually. And when I talk about it, I really just, you know, opened up myself to everybody. That’s sitting in the audience and I share my story. I share my story of how, you know, I was a immigrant from South Africa, you know, private school education, I’m Olympic hopeful to go to the Olympics for South Africa for figure skating. And you know how, when life throws you a curve ball, what are you going to do with it? And where’s it going to take you? And you know, how never pretty much, you know, ultimately never did I say when I was a little girl, eight, nine years old, you know, I think when I grow up, I’m going to be a porn star and a director.

I’m going to run a swingers club and I’m going to be a wedding planner podcast. I was published in international best-selling book, make a documentary, you know, be a motivational speaker, lifestyle coach, all these kinds of different things. But it’s my, my seminars really just about how I finally think that all these curve balls that were thrown at me put me where I need to be, which is motivational speaking. So that’s kinda neat. I had a really good time. I loved it.

Speaker 1 (8m 8s): And what do you discuss during your, during your speeches? Give us a little,

Speaker 2 (8m 15s): That’s kind of like it, I talk about, you know, how, you know, how like little things. So for example, was a good example. I was got a modeling job. Okay. And I was a model. I was never, I was never a stripper. I was never in the porn industry. I have a degree in theatrical production and just getting on Facebook and posting. Does anybody know of a nightclub that I can shoot out with? My photographer takes me to a gentleman’s club in San Diego where I walk in and it’s my high school friend who then says to me, you should be a dancer.

And at 35 years old, I started dancing. And that led, that led to somebody else say to me, you should dance in Palm Springs. And that led to the manager there whose name was Hank. Okay.

Speaker 1 (8m 59s): Of course it was

Speaker 2 (8m 60s): While you’re ready for this. So Hank says to me, would you be interested in running a swingers event here at our place, which leads to Hanks, like boss saying to me, let’s invest in a swingers club for you. And that’s how we came up with hanky panky. And then, so you see what I’m saying? Like life throws you a curve ball and then you just keep taking it and running with it and seeing where you’re going to go next.

Speaker 1 (9m 18s): That’s crazy. That’s crazy. Talk about your, your childhood in South Africa. Now, you, you were a figure skater that I kind of start to understand your personality based on that, because I know that when you’re an Olympic hopeful and you’re, and you’re especially figure skaters who to put so much work into it, the work ethic just has to be amazing that that must have really trained you for the amount of work you do now.

Speaker 2 (9m 51s): I think absolutely. I definitely can look back. So I started ice skating when I was three years old out here when my family immigrated to California. And I really, really do say that I think figure skating kept me out of trouble because when my friends were smoking and drinking and you know, being sexually active, I wasn’t, they actually, they used to call me the blue ball queen ’cause I, I knew I wasn’t going to get pregnant. Cause then I couldn’t ice skate. So ice skating definitely give you the, you know, the discipline. I kept me out of trouble and stuff like that.

We actually, we actually filmed, this is an interesting thing. We’re filming my documentary, as I told you. And we did one of our scenes at the LA, we did one of our scenes. We needed to do it on an ice rink. And so I called the ice rink and I said, you know, told them who I was. And the director of the ice rink is the same director that was there when I was three years old. So she let us use the rink. And it was funny because we were driving down there. We had to, I don’t know if you know J crew, but J crew. We had to wake up at four at 3:00 AM to leave my house at 4:00 AM to be at the ice rink at five. That was the ice time they gave us. And I just remember looking at the girl who’s playing me.

She’s a figure skater from Sweden and looking at Jay. And I go, I don’t know how the hell I did this for 30 years of my life, you know?

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): Yeah. That’s I can’t imagine. I can’t imagine the dedication it takes to, to be an Olympic athlete.

Speaker 2 (11m 11s): Yes. Period. Did to be an athlete period. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (11m 15s): Yeah. So, yeah, and it, wasn’t a very good one by the way. So you released a new CBD personal loop now, can you share why you wanted to do it? Tell us about the process, the benefits, and also what kind of feedback and lastly, where can I find some of this stuff?

Speaker 2 (11m 37s): All right. So let’s see the reason that I wanted to do it, first of all, was because a lot of people will agree with me. I’m sure. And I’m not gonna ever say names, but there are personal lubricants out there not CBD that gets sticky or they taste funny or they smell funny. And the biggest thing for me is that you’re constantly, at least for me going, where’s the lube, I need more lube and that’s just kind of ruins, ruins the moment. So I wanted to find a product like a coconut oil, because coconut oil is something that does last for a while and doesn’t really have a taste or smell. And then I was at a swingers lifestyle event and next to the bed, they have like lubes and there was a CBD loop and I used it and my orgasm was like so intense, but I didn’t know it was a CBD loop.

So that’s where this all came from. When I turned on the light and I was like, oh my God, what kind of like, that was amazing. I realized what it was. And I decided like, wait a second. I want to venture it onto this project. So that was a two year in the making. And my loop is it’s actually developed in Utah. It is no taste, no spout. Those taste, no smell. Honestly, you can take two pumps, put it next to the bed. You don’t have to touch it again. The only thing is it’s not compatible with latex yet. So one step at a time and it, what

Speaker 1 (12m 43s): Does it do? Melt it.

Speaker 2 (12m 45s): So they say tech, technically coconut oil is not compatible with latex is the deal, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t stain. It says, no that doesn’t injure any, I’ve used it on my toys. I’m good with that. The orgasm is insane for a woman. And so my study more was like, okay, taking it to my swingers events and having my couples try it and giving me feedback. And then we would go back to the company and say, okay, we like it, but it has a little bit of a funny taste or let’s switch this. And so we nailed it. I’m getting great feedback. People love it.

And now I’m working on getting it into different distributors, but I also have a website for it, which is, oh, we were just talking about that. Which one? It’s Jules, J E w E L S C B D lubricant.com for an app.

Speaker 1 (13m 31s): So as if you’re not busy enough, I understand you’re doing that documentary that you talked about. So how did this come about? And maybe you can tell us about the progress.

Speaker 2 (13m 45s): So the documentary after I released the book and it became a number one international bestseller, a lot of people, you know, I always welcome feedback, negative or positive. I think that’s how you improve yourself. I’m working on my second book right now and I’ve taken the feedback from book number one and put that into book number two. So the documentary was, people were saying to me, you should put this into a movie you really, really should. And I think that your viewers will really be able to relate to the, you know, the obstacles and the challenges that you’ve had to overcome in your life to get where you are. And so I have a theater degree, but I don’t have, I don’t have a film degree.

So I looked on Facebook and I reached out to this director in New York city named Kevin Michaels. I was very intrigued by his work and I sent them a copy of my book. And I asked him his honest opinion, like read this book, come back to me and say, this would be the most boring movie in the world. I’m not doing it. Just tell me, don’t let me waste my time. And Kevin said, this is going to be an amazing, amazing story. And so we’ve embarked on this journey and I’m loving every moment of it. I’m loving it. And what’s really neat is a lot of the people that are like playing the cast in my documentary are actually playing themselves.

If that makes any sense. So for example, when I shot my first like major porn scene, which was a reported movie, it was three days on set for wife swinger swap three with Luke Wilder. And Todd hunter was with the right. He was the writer for the ABNs. He was there and he sat next to me on a bench. And he said to me, you know, are you new? And we just, you know, had a conversation. He knew he could tell I was nervous. And so when I put out on Facebook, like, does anybody want to be in this movie? Todd came back and he goes, yeah, if I can be me. So we just shot that scene. So that’s really neat. And when I first started dancing in that strip club that I told you about the owner of that strip club actually plays himself in my documentary where I first came into the club on my first day of work.

So yeah. So it’s really nice. And the, the girl that’s playing the young Cortland, she is actually my ice skating student from Sweden 20 years ago. I started coaching her when she was 10 years old. So she’s 30 years old living in America, studying film, and she portrays me. So I’m having a blast at it. Loving it.

Speaker 1 (15m 51s): Yeah. I can tell, I can tell

Speaker 2 (15m 54s): That you see how excited I am to talk about that. And then you asked me about my website with my lube and I’m like, I’m hating it. Nadian it?

Speaker 1 (16m 0s): Do you sleep by the way? No. Okay. Okay. I was wondering about that as we record this late at night, west coast time. So, and I always do appreciate that by the way, since I’m in Thailand, as you know, so yeah. That’s not a bad life. So you’ve mentioned the second book. What is that going to be about? Give us some, some sort of details.

Speaker 2 (16m 29s): Okay. So what I did is, again, I took the feedback from what people had said to me, people in my, if anybody’s read my book, my book starts out with a journalist that was interviewing me. And then I step in and I finished my book and I started to realize in the feedback was nobody tells your story better than you. So book number two is 100% know written from my perspective. And a lot of people would say to me when they were reading my book, which is an overview of different aspects of my life, working in the porn industry, working in a brothel, ice skating, living in Sweden, living in Germany, married children, you know, all these different things people would say to me, oh, I wish you would have shared more stories about the swinger lifestyle, or I wish you would have shared more stories about the brothel.

So my publisher said to me, we’re going to do a series. So the next book is all about things that I have experienced being a owner of a sweater, lifestyle club, and get 18,000 members now. And you know, the funny stories, the scary stories and that’s yeah. So that’s this one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17m 26s): So it’s only going to be about the swingers club or some of these

Speaker 2 (17m 28s): Things. Nope. Nope. So this one’s just going to focus all on swinger lifestyle. I got more than enough. And then the next one we’ll focus on the brothel. You know,

Speaker 1 (17m 39s): You got it all lined up for the, for the entire, the, the entire series. How many books all together are we going to do?

Speaker 2 (17m 46s): So, so far, I’m just those three right now, the brothel will be one. Swinger will be one. And then, but do you see, when I, when I published my book, which was June 15th, 2020, I didn’t know I was going to be doing a documentary or a podcast. Right. So, and then I didn’t know of all the amazing people that would be bringing his guests on my podcast.

Speaker 1 (18m 6s): Oh, well, thank you all. Well, thank you. I know you’re talking about,

Speaker 2 (18m 10s): I mean, other school people, so yeah. You know, I’ve got my hands on a bunch of different things, but I know what I’m good at. Like I said earlier, I know what I wanted. I want to be able to sit down and finish my book. I want to be able to sit down and write the script for my documentary some more. But when I’m fighting with building a website, hint, if anybody’s listening, reach out to me, please,

Speaker 1 (18m 29s): This is, this is being recorded. This is being recorded in August, by the way. So by that time, I hope you’ll have somebody to, to, to develop it, but

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): Right. I know. So, yeah. So that’s where I’m going right now. I’m working on a documentary, we’re shooting again, middle of September, another 12 scenes. And I wrote seven scenes last night, so

Speaker 1 (18m 51s): Wow. Crazy. Okay. Now the brothel is new to me. I think I know a lot about you, but I don’t remember you mentioning that. So tell us about that aspect of your life. How did you get into it? And tell us, tell us some stories, because I’m sure that’s something everyone would like to hear about that.

Speaker 2 (19m 12s): Yeah, that’s it, everybody said that more on the brothels. So I was actually shooting with Nina Hartley for Nina Hartley seduction and, and on the set, it was a five girl or G scene. And on the set was, I am Sable, Renee and Sable, Renee. And I had met in a different we’d met like, you know, over the phone, never face to face. Okay. And when Sable looked at me, she’s like, you look so familiar. And so we realized, you know, we knew it, we knew who each other were started talking. And I asked her, do you live in LA? And she says, actually, no, I live up in Las Vegas, you know, up in, where was she?

I think she was in Reno at one of the bunny rounds. You know, one of the ranches, the brothels. And I asked her what it was like. And she, you know, she told me and I asked her how you get into that line of work or whatever, how you do it. And so I assembled to thank for, you know, getting me inside. And she got me into the alien cat house

Speaker 1 (20m 0s): And I weren’t familiar with,

Speaker 2 (20m 2s): So the alien cat house, and as you go past Vegas and you go, like, you’re going to go to Pahrump where the what’s that other one called to the left were Omar overdosed, the letter L anyways, you keep going past that. And there was literally, it was our little house next to us was a gas station in the back of the gas station was Phil’s cafe. And across the street was a fireworks place. And that was it. And I did three terms at the brothel. So I would leave my home on a Thursday morning at 6:00 AM, go up there spent Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, Monday night left at 6:00 AM on Tuesday morning, just in time to pick up my kids from school was home Tuesday, Wednesday, and then we’d head out again on Thursday.


Speaker 1 (20m 41s): So how was it? I mean, tell us about it.

Speaker 2 (20m 47s): That was the, some of the script that I wrote last night, positives about the brothel was I never had a negative experience with any of the men and I never had a negative, never. And I actually, I’m still to this day, friends with like clients that came in their friends on social media and stuff. So that was all positive, negative. It’s like living in a sorority house. And I was one of the older women. You do a lot of sitting around because you’re waiting for the doorbell to ring. The doorbell could not ring for 12 hours. And then the other thing is that there’s no shifts.

So they call it sleep pretty. So it’s 3:00 AM in the morning, you’re laying down in bed, you’ve got, you know, lingerie on all your full makeup doorbell rings. You have to get up. And then it’s, you know, some trucker that just wants to have a beer. And you’re like, no, you gotta go back to edit. So, so it’s a lot, you know, there’s no sleep really for five days, but, and I had some create a lot of those. Some of those stories are in my, those are my book, you know, like some of the crazy, crazy requests. One, I’ll tell you one of them. I will shorten it. But tell me more than one you can tell.

Huh? All right. Well, this isn’t, this was an interesting one. So, you know, they’ll, they’ll tell us, you know, our, our drivers driving into Vegas to pick up a high roller coming in tonight. Okay. So now, you know, you’ve got eight girls on alert that, you know, maybe the pretty woman man is going to walk into that home and whatever. So we’re all waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting. And now it’s one in the afternoon, six and PM, 8:00 PM, 11:00 PM. The guy in there. So slowly, the girls are like, screw this and they’re all going to bed. And it was just really like two of us and about 2:00 AM we all me and the other girl went to bed.

And then the bell rang at like three 30 in the morning and only her and I got up, nobody else got up. So he had finally arrived and he chose me. And, you know, I said, would you like a tour? And he says, I’ve been here before. I don’t need a tour. So you want to sit at the bar, do you want to go talk whatever? And so we sat at the bar and then you’re not allowed to do what to discuss the party in the parlor. So you have to take them to your room. So we go to the room and he says to me, so do you like role-play? And I said, yeah. I mean, I liked role play just depends what you’re looking for. And he says, do you like, like, like, like children, like baby role-play and all I could think in my head was like, no, this guy’s a pedophile crap.

What am I going to do? You know? And I said, well, you have to elaborate. Like, what are you looking for? And he says, do you like diaper play? Now I went from pedophile to all my God, he’s going to make me change his crappy diapers. Like, where is this going? And why did I pick me? You know? And finally I got him to, I just kind of said to him, I said, listen, it’s four o’clock in the morning. My brain’s not really working. Like, you just gotta tell him exactly what you want. And he says, I just want to roll around on the floor, wear diapers, play with rattles, play with stuffed animals, choo two trains and just giggle and laugh and be kids. And I’m like, anything else? And he’s like, no, that’s it.

And I’m like, no sex, no nothing. And he’s like, no, no, no, just that. And I’m like, well, how long do you want to do it for it’s four o’clock in the morning. And he says, oh, 24 hours. So yeah. So once you agree on a price, you go out to the house, mom, you do, you know, you pay and then you go back and then you’re not supposed to discuss with the girls. Of course, you know what your session was. So the next day, all the girls to, you know, the high roller finally came in, right? They’re all like, come on Coraline, come on, Carlin. What did you charge him? What did you do? And I just would like smile and laugh. And I’m like, you guys have, you’ll never guess in a million years, you will never guess that I was playing with you to drains on the floor last night or this morning.


Speaker 1 (24m 2s): I think the two, two

Speaker 2 (24m 4s): Trains, or did he? No, no. Oh no, sweetheart. He brought, he had a whole bag. He brought, he told me he brought a whole bag of toys. We had, we had pacifiers. We had bottles. Yeah. Rattles. We had rattles. So yeah. I mean, that’s, it’s kind of like the swinger lifestyle. People really think that, you know, that it’s all about, you know, a husband and wife or a boyfriend and girlfriend just go to a party and you’ve got free rein and you pick another couple and you fuck them. And that’s not really what the lifestyle is about. People think that, you know, when you work at a brothel, majority of the guys that come in, they’re going to pay you for sex.

And that’s what they want. You know, in my experience at the brothel, the only two of them were sexual experiences. Other ones I swear to you, the other ones were more like random fantasies or cuddling. One guy wanted to just one. I just, we did, we did dog play that’s in my book too. Like he would say that he would say like, oh, that’s a good little girl. That’s my good little doggy. And he’s like, oh yeah, shake, shake, shake. You want to shake? And I was like, oh my God, I can’t believe I’m doing this. But that was his thing.

So yeah,

Speaker 1 (25m 5s): 24 hours cost.

Speaker 2 (25m 8s): So everybody, you do your own prices. Okay. So you make the decision, what you want to charge and everything that you make, 50% of what you make goes to the house. Even if you go to your room and at the end, they tip you. If they tip you, you better be honest and go to the house and say, I got tipped a hundred bucks or whatever. Cause Dennis Hoff would send in spies. Even if you gave a tour, like if somebody came and they said, I just want to tour. Like sometimes we’d get little old ladies. You know, they just wanted the tour. And if they gave me $20 for the tour, I have to go to the front desk or the mom and say, okay, they tipped me $20.

And then I get 10. So yeah. So when you

Speaker 1 (25m 43s): Decide your own,

Speaker 2 (25m 45s): Yeah, that was Dennis hospitals. And it was actually interesting because I was one of the girls that didn’t live there full time. Every single time I arrived at the house and that the house mom would say, daddy’s not coming this weekend. So you get daddy’s room. So already the bitches hated me. Cause they were like, this freaking girl always gets like the king suite room, you know, always had daddy’s room. I had the best room in the house, his room. Yeah. It’s like his room. If he comes to stay there that’s daddy’s room. But every time I went and he didn’t stay there. So I got daddy’s room.

Speaker 1 (26m 11s): Interesting. Interesting. What, what, tell him, tell me another weird story from there. I I’m fascinated now. Cause that, cause I just, I just thought you’d go in those places to fuck girls. Cause that’s all I ever did when I was single. So

Speaker 2 (26m 22s): Yeah. Now you see it so different. Okay. Let’s see. I’m only sharing the ones that are in my book cause I’m saving or that might in my first series because I don’t want to ruin my second book, but right. The brothels in the third book, another one that was interesting was, you know, there was Periscope. I know some people that have still do do Periscope, but it was one of the mornings at the brothel. I was on live on Periscope and I was dressing up and like country country off of Jean shorts or whatever. And I was just asking my fans, like you guys like this outfit or this outfit and they were like, you really need a hat Corlon and I’m like, I didn’t pack. I didn’t pack a cowboy hat.

You know? So whatever the day goes on and the doorbell rings and we all go line up and this guy comes to the door and he says, oh, I’m just here for court. Oh no, that’s what happened on Periscope. This guy said, Corlon you need a hat, I’ll bring you a hat. Right. And I go, oh, okay, sure. I’ll I can’t wait to see my hat. Remember I’m in the middle of fricking nowhere. I’m in area 51 with a gas station, Phil’s cafe, whatever. And this guy says, he’s going to give her me a hat. And sure enough, the doorbell rings like three hours later and we line up and the guy says, I’m just here for Cortland and all the other girls get pissed.

And I look at him and he’s got a hat in his hands and I’m just, I was in shock and I was like, shut up, shut up. Like where the hell were you? So it turns out he’s a trucker and he was sleeping in our lots. And then, and then he realized that I was in that brothel. So he came in, gave me his hat, which I still have today. I still have his hat. And he ended up spending the whole day. He just said like, how much does by you for the day? So you don’t have to line up and then we can just talk and cuddle for the whole day at night. So, and we’re still friends.

I think I can say his name, but I won’t say his whole profile. And then, but it’s one, one, man, something that’s on the side and to this day still friends. So, I mean, I met some really, really cool people.

Speaker 1 (28m 8s): I guess I was one of the weird ones and wanted sex. Okay. So I also heard you’re developing a swinger lifestyle card game. So what made you want to do this and tell us more about it and where people can find it.

Speaker 2 (28m 26s): Okay. So this is where your lifestyle game came because whenever I’m at my part, like I host weekend events. So I usually do like Friday night is game night and I tell my guests, you know, bring twister, bring cards of humanity, bring something that you guys can share with each other and you actually can meet everybody else. That’s at the parties have Friday nights, game nights, Saturdays pool party with prizes. And Saturday nights like I’ll do entertainment or whatever. And so what I noticed is that like there, they only really had cards of humanity. So there’s 24 hotel rooms and you’d go to everybody’s room and I’m like, what’d you guys bring in?

They’re like cards of humanity. And I’m like, okay, that’s pretty three what’d you guys bring cards of humanity. And so I was like, dude, like there’s nothing else out there. Right. So I decided to come up with something that was like truth or dare with a twist is what I do and different levels. And it’s very simple to follow. You know, you can be drunk and you can still follow it. And it’s not crazy naughty. It’s got, you know, you can choose and you can always say no, of course, but yeah. And that game again, they can just go directly to easiest would probably just to me to correlate my website, C O R a L Y N Juul, J E w E l.com.

And then they go buy the game from me. They’re my contacted me or the Juul CBD lubricant. We’re working on doing this whole new website as you know, this is my dilemma. This is my dilemma of the week.

Speaker 1 (29m 45s): It’ll all work out my dare. We were talking off. We were talking off air about that. So what else are you working on? I know there’s got to be more core

Speaker 2 (29m 56s): There will there. I know. Let’s see. Okay. So I’ve got my hanky panky podcast with my guests and I have my weekly blogs that correlate with that. The documentary, the CBD lube, the swinger lifestyle game. The second book, my, I run my swingers events. I’ve got an event on Saturday. I’ve got the third book and then this week there’s events and then weddings wedding season is back in full swing now. And gosh, tell me that that’s everything right. I own a mobile fitness company for children too, but I’ve had to put that one on the bank. Back-burner I can’t do everything.

Speaker 1 (30m 28s): Yeah. I’m crushed. I’m crushed. I’m completely, I’m completely crushed when coral and Juul says I cannot to everything. That’s right. That’s wow. That’s amazing. So tell us how the podcast is going. Maybe you can tell me about some upcoming guests that would interest me.

Speaker 2 (30m 50s): All right. So let’s see. So the podcast is called to get the hanky-panky podcast and what it is. It’s not just focused. So there’s a lot of podcasts out there that just focus on the, you know, adult performers. And then there’s some that just focus on swinger couples. So I kind of, I want my, what am I going to be different? I wanted mine to just be a sex positive podcast where our listeners can learn about the lifestyle’s swinger lifestyle, but also polyamory the BDSM world pro Dom’s erotic writers, you know, sex therapists, relationship coaches.

One of my most interesting for me was a Dr. Perry was a Dr. Perry was studying to be a priest and almost was there like ready to go and decided he’s going to turn around and become a doctor and study sex therapy and then teach sex educational DVDs. He makes them, and he actually films with the camera and it’s actually like sex. In other words, it’s like, what the

Speaker 1 (31m 47s): Hell? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31m 49s): So I’ve had some really, really cool guests. I had a Dr. Lee Phillips he’s he’s amazing LA kink shrink. He focuses on couples that come to him or people that come to him and have different kinks or fantasies or fetishes where they think that, you know, other therapists tell them, well, there’s something wrong with you where LA kink shrinks says, no, there’s nothing wrong with you. You know, and stuff like that. And then, okay, who do I have coming up? Let me think. Oh, I just interviewed, oh, this is kind of cool. Okay. So Eric Monte was an adult performer and he’s now 70 something years old and he got out.

So he was just a guest teaching me all about the golden era I had Sharon Mitchell was on.

Speaker 1 (32m 31s): Who else? Oh, the widow of the Mitchell brother.

Speaker 2 (32m 34s): No, Sharon Sharon Mitchell was the adult performer. Like she was really, yeah. The hub. Remember she’s developed. She started aim. And then now she works with children with, you know, teenagers with drug addiction. I had, what was it? Oh gosh. Oh, how we Gordon also known as Richard Pacheco and he was also an adult performer and he wrote a 700 page book and would be Goldberg, right. Would be Goldberg wrote the, a prelude.

Speaker 1 (33m 6s): No,

Speaker 2 (33m 6s): But she’s his neighbor. And I was like, oh my God, I want to go meet with me. So Right. And then who else do I have coming up? Herschel Savage and other adult performer. I just had an erotic author. I released her today and I have a swinger lifestyle club owner, but he has a twist. He is a club that actually allows bisexual males. Would, you would think in the swinger lifestyle community that we would welcome anybody, you know, that’s, what’s supposed to be, you’re supposed to welcome your open. You would hope so. And there are so many clubs that will turn away a couple because the male half is bisexual, but the woman can be bisexual.

And that to me is bullshit. And so he saw a need for that. Exactly. So the podcast, it’s really neat if I’m having a good time with it and having a good time with writing the articles to correlate with that. And I forgot to

Speaker 1 (33m 51s): Tell you my

Speaker 2 (33m 52s): Dear, I don’t know. I also work. I forgot to tell you. I’m also a chat agent for Dr. Susie’s Institute. So just on top of all of that,

Speaker 1 (34m 1s): You do that in your spare time. So you’re still shooting content. I know. Where can we find your latest content?

Speaker 2 (34m 11s): Okay. So I’m my only fans is pretty easy. It’s just only fans backslash coral and Juul. So that’s C O R a L Y N. I always tell people think of the oral. So oral and then out of seeing the beginnings, it’s coral and Juul, and then a loyal fans. I really liked their platform. Same thing, Cortland jewel, many vids is the coral and Juul. And then I have a porn hub page. Don’t go to PornHub, you guys. Cause it doesn’t do anything for us. And ultimately, as you know, my goal is to have one website where you can go to get my game, my book, my, my films, you know, my blogs, everything in one location

Speaker 1 (34m 47s): Soon coming soon when it’s all, when it’s all ready, which hopefully it will be by the time this actually drops all, all announce it. Now along with everything you’re doing, I guess you’re still hosting the swingers events and working as a wedding planner. So my question for you always is going to be, what do you do in your spare time?

Speaker 2 (35m 13s): I really don’t have, yeah, right. I know. I don’t, you know, like we went to, I went to Las Vegas last weekend, but that was for work. But then I’m, you know, I do have some free time or whatever. And I went to my girlfriend’s house today to get nails done. And then we hang out

Speaker 1 (35m 26s): All your nails. They’re lovely.

Speaker 2 (35m 28s): Right. But you see, because I hung out with her. I screwed up my evening cause I was, I had so much I was supposed to do tonight, but she wouldn’t let me go. I don’t, I don’t like I don’t don’t watch TV. I don’t watch movies. I’ve only read half a Dick troubles book. I haven’t even started. They who interviewed me. It was, it was a comedians interviewing porn stars at exotica. And we traded books. He finished mine. I haven’t started his. And then what’s his name? It’s Richard Pachecos book. The one they told you, it’s 700 pages. I’m a hundred pages in.

So I just, I don’t have a lot of time. You know, I work til probably three in the morning. Then I go to sleep and get up at eight and start again.

Speaker 1 (36m 6s): And I have two kids

Speaker 2 (36m 7s): Too.

Speaker 1 (36m 8s): Yeah. That’s right now. I understand at exotica you made some contacts that may lead distill another future project. Which one is that?

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): Are you referring to the doll? I

Speaker 1 (36m 20s): Oh, yes, yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36m 23s): Yes. We’re falling up on that one right now. So I, that was only dolls came to me about working with them.

Speaker 1 (36m 29s): Well, only dolls is that like only fans?

Speaker 2 (36m 32s): No. So only dolls they’ll actually create a coral and jewel Juul doll. All Right. Yeah. So, well you have to tell them, you see, this is the thing. So they came to me and now they’re like, I don’t know. I don’t know if they fell off the earth, but I don’t know what happened. I made a lot of context for shooting content there. I can’t even remember. You’re so busy. You’re talking to so many people and so many business cards here and there. And then you just got to come home and kind of go through everything, you know?

Speaker 1 (37m 3s): Well, I’m looking forward to that doll coming out for sure. Now,

Speaker 2 (37m 6s): So you have to write them and tell them I’d like a coral and Juul doll, please.

Speaker 1 (37m 10s): Okay. You need to, you know, when we get done here, you can give me the information. Now on your website and podcast site, I see release a weekly blog entry. Where do you find the time to write a blog post? When your guest is discussing a topic, you might not be very familiar with, for instance, website brokering, where else are you posting your blogs?

Speaker 2 (37m 36s): So it’s interesting because sometimes I say to myself, like, crap, why did we include logs? Right. Cause that’s, it’s another thing for me to have to do. But what did, what it does do is that when I’m interviewing a guest that I don’t maybe understand the world so much like a femdom or a dominatrix, it, you know, it, it forces me to go and research that so that I’m more prepared for my interview. And then with my blogs, I have found a way to do them. I voiced texts into my cell phone and then I email it over to my computer and then I drop it into Grammarly to fix all my awful spelling or whatever.

And then I put it on. So it goes onto the hanky-panky podcast to correlate with the guest and then I’m also putting them on sexpert. And then I’m also putting them on medium now as well.

Speaker 1 (38m 18s): Oh, and medium. Rarely I have S I have a subscription to that.

Speaker 2 (38m 22s): Oh, go follow me.

Speaker 1 (38m 23s): Oh, okay. No, I most certainly will. You got to remind me, you remind me of that one too, when we get done.

Speaker 2 (38m 29s): Right. I know. I know. And then, and then there was some other sites that I had also like, you know, started like there’s some swinger sites, SDC, and you know, they were training me how to put them on there. But as I said, Cortland is admitting it, you can’t can’t do everything. So I have to, I actually have my seven year old son

Speaker 1 (38m 46s): Actually said that twice.

Speaker 2 (38m 48s): I know I have to tell myself that coral and you can’t do everything

Speaker 1 (38m 53s): Now. You know, you’re obviously being, being a sex worker and having a family. How, I mean, how is that? I would imagine your kids know what you do.

Speaker 2 (39m 4s): Yes. How do

Speaker 1 (39m 5s): You, how do you, how do you deal with that?

Speaker 2 (39m 7s): Well, it’s exactly why I tell people in my, anybody that I meet who’s in the adult industry, or if my blogs talk about this a lot, if you think for a second that you can just do webcamming and that nobody’s going to find out, or you can just shoot one porn and no one’s going to find out, guess what they’re going to find out. Okay. So if you’re going to go into this industry, you go into this industry and you go in it with an attitude of, so, you know, I’m not hurting anybody and this is who I am. Right. Because I, a lot of people at exotica were like, don’t tag me on Facebook because people don’t know about me on Facebook. And I’m like, oh, they know, okay.

They know. So my children, they found out my, again, I was, I was one that was hiding it. And when you’re hiding, when you’re hiding it, it’s just an awful, awful feeling. And

Speaker 1 (39m 50s): I would have to feel terrible.

Speaker 2 (39m 52s): It’s an awful feeling because you can’t really tell the truth. Right. So I would, you know, I couldn’t tell my parents, you know, why I was going to be in LA, you know, right minds. Couldn’t tell my ex-husband why I needed to keep him late for him to keep the kids late or whatever. But ultimately what happened was my older sister, our older, my younger sister, she was 19. She found my Instagram. And instead of, instead of contacting me and being like, Hey, what is this? She contacted my brother. Who’s five years younger than me. And instead of right, and instead of him saying to her, like, hold on, let’s call her sister. They called my dad.

So then my dad called me and said, you know, you’re out of the family and blah, blah, blah. And while I’m crying and talking to him, my 14 year old son walks in and asks, what’s going on and now he’s heard the whole conversation. And so boom, it’s out there. So I then had to call my mom and say, okay, listen, here’s the deal. But you know, what’s so nice is now everybody, everybody knows my swinger community knows the kids know, everybody knows there’s no secrets or anything, you know? And the other thing that it’s done, at least for me is my kids. My kids know you can come and talk to me about anything, right?

Like anything, you know, and, and I’m going to advise you and I’m going to help you and keep you safe. And so it’s really, it’s really, really, really, really refreshing. I bet it is.

Speaker 1 (41m 3s): I bet my dogs know what I do by the way, just to let you know, I’ve told off, I’ve told all four of them and you know, they, they, they, they sometimes, you know, one wags his tail and then the other one just kind of looks at me sideways. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (41m 18s): So here’s, here’s something interesting to tell you. So I just had an author on my podcast on Monday and she couldn’t be on camera for video. Okay. She couldn’t do YouTube, just audio. And she said, because just because she writes a Roddick books, she also does mainstream writing journalism and stuff like that. And when I was writing my correlation or my blog about her, you know, and it wasn’t against her, it was just saying, I can’t believe we’re still in this, you know, judgment that she’s not even having sex on camera or anything, but she’s a writer.

And she has to hide the fact that she writes erotic books,

Speaker 1 (41m 51s): The 21 in the United States, in the United States of America. Although I won’t even get into the politics of that, but I’ll, I’ll, I’ll let, I’ll just, I’ll let Mr. McGrady do that. When, when you hear this podcast,

Speaker 2 (42m 6s): It’s crazy. But like, you know, so remember now my, my, my, my family knows, they know I worked in a brothel, they know everything. So my father reads my book. Okay. And now he won’t talk to me. I’m like, wait a second. I published a number one international bestselling book. That’s dedicated to you. You already knew everything in it, but you won’t talk to me. And my mom’s the opposite. She’s like, I’m loving these podcasts. How do I get in touch with king B? I like him. You know, it’s so funny.

Speaker 1 (42m 29s): Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, your dad will come around. I’m sure.

Speaker 2 (42m 35s): Well, we hope so. We hope so, but that’s what my, you know, my whole, my whole goal and motivational speaking and everything is like, you have one life to live, live it for you. You’re not hurting anybody be you because you don’t want to be a 70 year old divorce person that comes out of this awful marriage. And you say, God, I wish I would have done this, this and that. So don’t, don’t wait until it’s too late. Just do it. Just don’t hurt anybody.

Speaker 1 (42m 54s): Thanksgiving must be interesting. I just have one more question. Yes. How many new ideas do you get a day?

Speaker 2 (43m 4s): A lot. And I have a hard time sleeping. So I have to keep like my phone’s next to the bed so that if I have an ID, even sometimes I’ll write part of my script or my chapter of my book in my head. And so I have to actually get up and dictate it to my phone so I can go to sleep. I’m a Scorpio type, a personality. So

Speaker 1 (43m 22s): That’s why we get along so well. When’s your birthday? October 24th. Oh,

Speaker 2 (43m 27s): That’s probably we share a birthday.

Speaker 1 (43m 29s): I forgot. No, I didn’t know that.

Speaker 2 (43m 32s): Wait, I didn’t know. I don’t know if I knew that either we share a birthday on October 24th. That’s why we get along. So I’ll help him.

Speaker 1 (43m 38s): Wow. Maybe October 24th. We’ll have to celebrate somewhere anyway.

Speaker 2 (43m 41s): In New Jersey, New Jersey exotica. Okay.

Speaker 1 (43m 45s): Well, I will see what I can do. If, if they, if they finish a quarantine here before then maybe I’ll come out. It would be, it would be great to celebrate

Speaker 2 (43m 56s): No in figures, in figure skating, we call it alpha beta gamma, Delta. Those are the levels. So I just figured we skipped alpha beta gamma. We’re in Delta, right? So we’re moving along,

Speaker 1 (44m 8s): Comes to an end soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 10s): I hope so. Fingers crossed

Speaker 1 (44m 11s): Well, Coralyn I’d like to, once again, thank you for being our guest on adult side, broker talk and being our returning champion. And I hope pool. I know we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 23s): Thank you for having me. Look, you guys, we just chatted for an hour. Look at us. We’re crazy, huh?

Speaker 1 (44m 27s): We are crazy by broker tip. Today is part four of what to do to make your site valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your website, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable for when it comes time to sell it. Trademarking, our site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers waves. You feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends.

If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or view porn, be creative, not just one of the many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site.

Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to social media guru, Jason Hunt. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Coralyn Jewel. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Bruce Friedman (6s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with

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Bruce Friedman (1m 40s):
Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. The first NSFW social media platform in the world. The web app benefits from innovative technologies that enable almost a million members to instantly share their sexy photos and videos via computer or mobile. Today, the site has more than 200 new members signing up daily with zero spent on marketing. These leads are essentially coming from organic SEO word of mouth and premium backlinks. The site has received great articles in top magazines, such as Playboy daily dot refinery, 29 and more in 2019, the site started recurring subscriptions, which made it a more private platform since only registered members now have access to the content while it impacted the traffic on the platform.

Bruce Friedman (2m 32s):
The user base is now very valuable as the site only accepts verified users. There are now over 60,000 active members. Average time on the site is over 10 minutes. The site, as a team of four super users moderating the platform to ensure there’s no illegal content among the photos and videos. Also there’s a report feature so that every member can report content that might infringe on someone’s rights. The site gets most of its traffic from the USA, Brazil, Mexico, France, and Spain now reduced to only 495,000 us dollars. Now time for this week’s interview.

Bruce Friedman (3m 12s):
My guest today on adult side broker talk is Morgan summer Morgan. Thanks for being with us again here on adult side broker talk.

Morgan Sommer (3m 19s):
It is my pleasure, Bruce. Thanks for having me great

Bruce Friedman (3m 22s):
To have you back now, Morgan, if you didn’t know, as a 25 year adult industry veteran, he actually started when he was five. He was the co-founder and former owner of cyber socket. He’s a legendary figure in our industry, especially in the LGBTQ portion of the industry. Now the formation of cyber socket parties at major trade shows, at least in my opinion, did a great job of bringing the gay and the straight sides of the industry together, like never before. So Morgan, you’ve had some changes in your career. What happened with you in cyber socket? Yeah,

Morgan Sommer (3m 55s):
So a cyber sockets still exists. We reached a point a couple of years ago, my business partner, Tim and I were, we both needed to evolve and we both needed to change. And Tim really wasn’t interested in the day-to-day operations of the company anymore, and I kind of needed some new intellectual experiences as well. So we kind of both left the day-to-day operation to our staff. And I went and pursued a couple of outside interests in mainstream marketing, just so I could learn some new tools and tactics and see how the rest of the world was doing things that I was interested in.

Morgan Sommer (4m 35s):
And, you know, that was fine. We were contented to leave things that way. And, you know, we were each giving about five to 10 hours a week and cyber cycle was so growing, but then Tim got a diagnosis with a very bad kind of brain cancer last November. And then I started talking with the folks here at Doclar in January, but possibly coming on and taking on a role. And we, over a course of five or six months, we continued to talk and it just kind of all worked out at the same time that literally at around the same time that Doppler and I were coming to a conclusion of that discussion, an offer came from the folks that now own flesh bought and, and they made an offer that we couldn’t say no to, to acquire cyber socket in all of its assets, all of the trademarks, everything, because they had a vision for taking it for the next, you know, to its next level that we did not have.

Morgan Sommer (5m 39s):
And, you know, as a, as someone who built a business and really cared about it, I, I didn’t have that vision anymore. Sure. To be honest. And, and when someone comes along and has a vision for that thing, that can take it to a place that you can’t, it’s the best thing for it. You know, if you like a child, right. You care about it and you want it to grow. So really it was really, it’s an amazing thing because the, the folks that have taken it over really have some great plans for it. And a former editor in chief of ours, Alexander, he is now back in charge of the whole thing. Again, he had ideas when he was our editor that we did not let him do because we were just out of, out of energy to tell you the truth.

Morgan Sommer (6m 20s):
Sure. And, and now he gets to do all of those great things. So I look forward to showing up in a cyber socket award show, perhaps next spring as a guest for the first time. So anyway, and you know, and this has also given Tim the time he needs to just focus on his health and recovery. So

Bruce Friedman (6m 42s):
Let’s transition to that. How is he doing

Morgan Sommer (6m 45s):
To be totally honest, not well, he is deteriorating and you know, the best case scenario for a lot of people with this type of cancer is that they may live two to five years. We don’t have any idea how long Tim has, but, you know, overall his health is not good. And at this point, everybody, the doctors are just trying to keep them comfortable and keep him in his home. And that’s, that’s kind of where we’re at. So he has a big group of friends in Southern California. They’re coming to take care of him. And so he is being cared for and his family is coming to visit him. And he and I talk about once every two weeks.

Morgan Sommer (7m 27s):
It’s, it’s all, it’s what it is right now. Yeah.

Bruce Friedman (7m 30s):
That’s really sad. Now, now you, you, you spoke of the cyber socket awards. That’s gotta be something that you started at that’s really gratifying cause that’s turned into something amazing.

Morgan Sommer (7m 41s):
Yeah. You know, we started that. I think it was the last awards show we did in 2019 was our 21st Howard. So wow. And I think we started that as a way to just find out what surfers liked because everybody had all of these theories about what web surfers thought was important, but no one was really doing good surveys. And so we started that whole process as just a way to get our readers, to tell us what they actually liked. And, and that’s why it turned into the popularity contest version of an awards show where we just let surfers, we threw a thousand things up on the wall and that the surfers pick and, and it was in, then it would just became a way to kind of constantly gauge the, the changing patterns of, of surfer behavior and surfer interest in stuff.

Bruce Friedman (8m 37s):
Now, obviously you mentioned the, the job change going to Doppler. Why don’t you, why don’t you tell us about that? Tell us about how you started talking to them and about, about the gig.

Morgan Sommer (8m 55s):
So I’ve had a long relationship with the company when they first came upon, you know, the, the industry community at trade shows back in 2003 or 2004, we connected with them. We became a partner with them on several things. They started sponsoring separate circuit events. We became an affiliate of theirs cause they had a gay site way back when, and you know, we had an ongoing cordial relationship for many, many years. And, and then at one time, one of our salespeople went to work for them. So there’s just been a long back and forth, you know, thing. That was where it was for many, many years.

Morgan Sommer (9m 36s):
And in January I got a message from the current CEO, Krista for Anderson, who is someone I knew socially in Los Angeles through other friends, he wasn’t part of the industry. And he said, Hey Morgan, how you doing? It’s been a long time. Guess what? I worked for Doppler and Luxembourg now. And I went, that’s an interesting story. So tell me how you got there. And he told me how it happened that, you know, mutual friends introduced him to them. And they were looking for someone to come on board as the chief product officer. And so eventually Chris and his partner, Marie, they, they were moved to Luxembourg.

Morgan Sommer (10m 20s):
And Chris check on the role as, as chief product officer and Chris originally had started talking to me about coming on board to help them build out their LGBT hue division. And as the head of product for that division Chris’s role changed in April, he was appointed the new CEO of Jasmine holding. And, and as a result of that, then the, the discussion about what role I might take changed from being the head of product of that LGBT division to possibly taking on a role as a senior vice president, kind of overseeing multiple divisions. And, and at the same time building out that LGBTQ division, you know, the role was kind of the role of a lifetime.

Morgan Sommer (11m 6s):
Really. It’s utilizing all the skills I’ve ever developed and then being challenged to do something more. And because this organization is infinitely larger than I ever really thought it was. And you know, they’re big, they’re big, right? And it’s, it’s huge. And there are 1800 employees across multiple countries and there’s a thousand moving parts and all times. And so I, you know, and I’ve expressed it to Mr. Garcia, I’m the founder. I am, I’m really grateful to have this role because it’s really, it’s challenging every day. It’s challenging in a really great and exciting way. And, and we’ve managed to be able to bring on board Carl Edwards and other industry veteran as the, as the head of product for that LGBTQ.

Morgan Sommer (11m 54s):
That’s cool. He’s running with that and expect some really great new, new things to come out around the time of the, why not camel wards in October, we’ll be, we’ll be launching our new gay brand at that point and with some prototype stuff for that, for that event. And then by the time we get to the shows in January, we should have be much further along with that process, but, and then we’ve also hired shisha. LaRue is our brand ambassador and model recruiter. I saw that too. That’s great. And, and we’ll be bringing on some more people that you will know their names sooner than later you will here. That’s awesome.

Bruce Friedman (12m 34s):
That’s awesome. Well, Carl’s, Carl’s amazing. And he’s a, he’s been a guest on, on the podcast, as you may know, and yeah, Carl’s, Carl’s incredible.

Morgan Sommer (12m 45s):
I think eventually you should have him back because he’s got, he’s got the visit to take that new division in really amazing places. So you should consider him again. But yeah, so it’s just, it’s a really exciting place to be. There is a really wonderful full leadership team here at Doppler and there’s some of the smartest people I’ve ever encountered from anywhere are all assembled in this organization. And just a lot of really great things going on.

Bruce Friedman (13m 16s):
That sounds fantastic. So talk to me a little bit about your day-to-day duties there.

Morgan Sommer (13m 22s):
He laughs drinking out of a fire hose out of high, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to take a sip out of a fire hose. It’s really, I mean, when I’m at home in Kansas, I start my days at 5:00 AM. I get online and start with my first team’s calls at five 30. And I run at a full sprint until basically 10:00 AM my time. And then things start to taper off by 11 when everybody in Luxembourg is home, but those first five hours of the day are intense.

Morgan Sommer (14m 3s):
And cause I’m basically trying to compress a full day communication with everybody here or in the Budapest office, into those few hours, timeframe for a nap at that point. Right. Then it’s time for a quick nap. And then I start working with Carl and everybody in north America. Sure. And we are, we’re hiring people all over the place. We’re trying to build out our north American dev team as well as the LGBT Q group, mostly in north America as well. So there’s just, you know, every day we’re doing a whole thing of interviewing people as well as work.

Morgan Sommer (14m 43s):
And a lot of that just requires time talking to each other. And so that’s kinda, and then by two or three o’clock, I officially completely wiped out and I need to go lay down. And then I, you know, I’m asleep by 10 30 at night and I start over again and that’s, you know, that’s my workweek, but it’s, but you know, it’s just, it’s really wonderful because I think, you know, the language of the company is English, but it’s, but the people of the company are from all over the earth and it’s, and it’s really, it’s really kind of amazing. That’s always what

Bruce Friedman (15m 20s):
Really cool because, because of the diversity of people from all over the, all over the world

Morgan Sommer (15m 26s):
Yeah. There’s, there’s a diversity of experience and perspective that is challenging. Right. And it is that assumptions that I might have and conclusions I may reach all by myself are, are being challenged, but in the best possible way all the time. That’s great. A

Bruce Friedman (15m 44s):
Lot of personal growth

Morgan Sommer (15m 45s):
Then. Yeah, I think so. I hope so. Yeah. Great.

Bruce Friedman (15m 48s):
So what, what else is new over at Jasmine Doclar AWM park?

Morgan Sommer (15m 54s):
Well at AWS, part of the new things are that we have new leadership there. A guy named Esteban Powell is the new head of sales and head of product there. He’s been on the team for a number of years and he is now he’s got a vision of where to take the team and where to take the program. They are working on new affiliate tools for all of the sites. We have the adult sites, as well as non adult sites. One of the big ones is the random site, which is the psychic slash esoteric site. It’s huge. I had it.

Morgan Sommer (16m 35s):
I didn’t even know it existed honestly until coming on board, but it’s actually really huge. And they’re planning to grow that as well. We have a whole, a series of mainstream websites also that are being managed by a team member from that lives in New York. And, and there’s a whole development group that’s dedicated just to those products. And at the moment we’re also engaged in, you know, looking at opportunities for investment in other businesses related to the industry. And even some that are not really part of the industry just to grow the diversity of the things that we’re doing as a company.

Morgan Sommer (17m 19s):
We’ll talk more. So

Bruce Friedman (17m 24s):
I always love hearing that,

Morgan Sommer (17m 27s):
But that’s, and that’s just kind of, you know, the company is, is growing. The company is thriving and it’s, we’re focusing on the core businesses of course, and trying to make things better. There is a large development team here, really great experts, and we’re always trying to improve live Jasmine bam, bam, and you know, and the other core products. Hmm. As evidence just by the investment alone that their, their company is making in building out a really solid LGBTQ group. So once we’ve got the new gay site launch, then we’ll revamp the trans site. And in both of those cases, we’re looking at building much more than a cam site, we’re building community sites.

Bruce Friedman (18m 11s):
So tell me more about the, about the gained and trans sites that are coming up,

Morgan Sommer (18m 19s):
The new gaze site, whose name I’ll keep secret for now. Okay. So we’re ready to put that out. It’s basically gonna, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a gay community platform that has a camp site backbone. Okay. And so, but it’s just gonna be a whole lot more than just simply a campsite. That’s really the goal. And the company overall has a mission of elevating sex and sexuality out of the shadows and into the light is for, for lack of a better concert better. Right. So we’re basically trying to just elevate human sexuality altogether and, and be sex positive and, and make it something people can be proud of, you know, regardless of their, of that, of their expression of that.

Morgan Sommer (19m 15s):
So I think that’s kind of the philosophical underpinning of all of the things we’re doing is we’re trying to just show each community that it’s supported and we’ll be moving into the fetish community as well. And so I think we’re, we’re seeing these things as more like specialty sites rather than, rather than calling them niche products. We’re just going to be moving into kind of a specialty division where each, each community that we decide to serve is going to be get the proper focus. That’s cool.

Bruce Friedman (19m 47s):
Now, now what about the, what about the Tran site? Is that something new?

Morgan Sommer (19m 52s):
There has been a trans site for many years. Okay. It just hasn’t really been well developed. Trans models are already on live. Jasmine they’ve always been there. And then there was sort of a white label version of the site that was segmented out as a trans site, but it’s never really been properly developed or promoted. So rather than just continuing to push that white label version of the site, we’ll be building a unique product for the trans community. And for people that like trans models

Bruce Friedman (20m 26s):
Now, besides adding new personnel, what else is going on with the new LGBTQ team?

Morgan Sommer (20m 33s):
Lots of conversations, you know, Carl and I talk, Carl has, was here in Luxembourg and then in Budapest with us also for the last a week or two, he just went home to Toronto today. So we’ve had a lot of meetings and a lot of conversations about where we want to go and specific details and features and how to get them built and what the timelines are. And that’s kind of where we are at this point. It’s, it’s the planning and development phase of things, which just requires a lot of communication with developers and, and the team.

Bruce Friedman (21m 8s):
Now you mentioned you’re planning on bringing in some other people besides Carl, any that you can mention

Morgan Sommer (21m 16s):
Not right now, but as soon as, but as soon as it’s time, I’ll make sure that you get that press release.

Bruce Friedman (21m 23s):
Yeah. Sounds good. Sounds good. Now, how has the gay adult industry changed compared to where it was when you first started in the industry?

Morgan Sommer (21m 32s):
I mean, you know, in 19 96, 97, there were a thousand gay sites in the world. We did when we did our first survey of websites. There were literally about a thousand by 98 that were about 2009 by 2000, the year 2000, there were tens of thousands. And, and on the adult side, there were a handful of mega sites. And then there were lots and lots of small sites. The mega sites died out and now, but the industry has been going through a consolidation period again. So I think there’s still room for small sites to enter the industry for new startups.

Morgan Sommer (22m 15s):
But the game for many years has been about how are you going to get traffic? And the traffic market is so locked up by big companies, you know, big aggregators and then big companies having huge spends that that’s the, that’s the unique challenge for gay companies. And I think, you know, my company Carl’s company and others, the only way we are ever survived was by building our own traffic networks, our own traffic funnels. Yeah. Because we could never compete with the big guys on the traffic buys. We could never compete enough to really get the decent traffic that’s available out there. Right. So we had to build our own and I think that’s still true for the majority of the gig industry sites out there.

Morgan Sommer (23m 2s):
But I think we’ll see more consolidation in the next couple of years of companies having to band together to, to keep growing.

Bruce Friedman (23m 12s):
Yeah. I can promise you that based on everything that I know, is it, is it as easy to build a traffic network as it was when you guys first started?

Morgan Sommer (23m 22s):
No, I think it’s, it’s not at all easy. No, you have to be really clever about it too. And, and the rules are much more entrenched. Now when we all first started, it was, it was the wild, wild west and you can do all kinds of crazy things and none of that’s allowed anymore. So, you know, there, we weren’t sure what was good and what was right. And Google’s rules change all the time as well.

Bruce Friedman (23m 49s):
Yeah. Dealing with Google has got to be probably the biggest challenge for people in our industry.

Morgan Sommer (23m 54s):
Yeah. And unless you have a lot of time, you know, if you’re a small operation with a, you know, and you’re shooting the content and you’re producing the website and you’re doing all the things, learning the marketing rules out there too is really complicated. And a lot of people don’t have time for that and or time to do it. Right. So I think, you know, they end up spinning their wheels, trying to figure out how to do things. Yeah.

Bruce Friedman (24m 17s):
I mean, people come to me as a rule in, in general as a con, because we do general consulting too. And they told me they want to get into the business or they want it, they want to start a site. And I basically ask them a lot of questions. And part of that is, well, how can I get traffic? I mean, can you afford to buy traffic? And most of them can’t, most of them just don’t have the war chest. And that’s hard. That’s really, really,

Morgan Sommer (24m 42s):
Yeah. And that’s why I think a lot of companies, they look to be part of bigger affiliate networks or they, you know, or they do what others have done like us is you just go to work and building your own funnel. Yeah. And, but I think there, a lot of companies are just destined to stay small operations as a result of that.

Bruce Friedman (25m 5s):
Sure. Who are some of the up and coming players in gay porn to watch out,

Morgan Sommer (25m 10s):
You know, I don’t think I have a good handle on that. Honestly. I, I don’t think I’m. Yeah. I wouldn’t say I’m qualified to answer that question at this point. Maybe a couple of years ago I could have, but at this I haven’t been paying attention. That’s that’s the, that’s the honest answer. Okay.

Bruce Friedman (25m 28s):
Okay. Who who’s out there now impresses you who’s who’s already established

Morgan Sommer (25m 35s):
Coby. Knox is one. Hmm. Okay. I think it’s a great there they have a great product and a great image. And I think they’re very popular. It’s a couple and they make their own content and they shoot all their own stuff and they have a real great website and, and people like their product. So I think there’s someone to watch out for if I had to put a finger on it. Okay.

Bruce Friedman (25m 58s):
And you said you gave me an answer. Woo. I got that one. Okay. So I don’t mean to be asking you things that you have to pull out of an office or anything like that. Now are virtual trade shows as useful as the in-person events.

Morgan Sommer (26m 15s):
I think in the world and the world we live in right now. They’re great. But no, I think I agree. I miss the personal interaction. I, I thrive on that energy that we get from being around each other and the sense of community that we have and that this is a big family. It’s really hard to maintain that thing with just the virtual trade shows. I enjoy them because they get to see the people I’ve missed seeing. Yeah. But I wish for that connection, I would go to the Prague show. That’s coming up except that I’m going home because I’d been away from home for three weeks. And if I were planning, if I were to do that, I’d have to go home for five days and then come back here for like 10

Bruce Friedman (26m 59s):
And your cats, your cats would not accept that

Morgan Sommer (27m 2s):
My cats are mad at me already. And that would only make it worse. Yes.

Bruce Friedman (27m 7s):
I was gone almost three months. You know what I did? I FaceTimed my dogs almost every day.

Morgan Sommer (27m 12s):
My cats will not like that. They’ll just walk away. They’ll just be pissed.

Bruce Friedman (27m 19s):
Yeah. How many do you have? We have five. Oh my God. You beat me. I have four dogs. Okay.

Morgan Sommer (27m 26s):
Yeah. It’s at this point it’s like, they’re their own gravity center and more just keep coming along.

Bruce Friedman (27m 32s):
Yes. They, they, they, they do tend to sprout. There’s no two ways about it. Yeah. And I agree with you about the virtual trade shows. I mean, they’re great, but it’s like seeing your friends on TV, you know, it’s not the same as seeing them in person. It’s not the same as a hug. And you know, when I, when I describe this industry to people who aren’t in it, the first word I use is the same one you use Morgan and that’s family. And I miss my family. I miss you Carl. And so many other people who I haven’t seen now for, you know, over a year and a half. And it sucks.

Bruce Friedman (28m 12s):
It just really sucks as I go to PR, I’d go to Prague and we’re recording this to let everyone know in the middle of August. And the, this will, this will drop probably late September, early October. But you know, if I go to Prague, I’m looking at 15 more days in jail or AKA a quarantine hotel quarantine, which I just got out of a week ago. And, but my dogs were glad to see me by the way, just to let you know. So your, your cats will be mad. My dogs were glad to see me, but that’s the difference there you say. Okay. So what industry events are you planning on attending in the near future?

Bruce Friedman (28m 55s):
You said Prague. No. Now

Morgan Sommer (28m 58s):
We will have some people from the team here in Europe attending the C the CEO will be there. But I think for me, I, I’m looking at the why not community event in October 11th through the 14th. And then the why not cam awards on the 14th of October in LA, as long as, as long as COVID does not cause cancellation of those events, I plan to be there. And then, and then the events in January, again, assuming the COVID situation allows things to happen. So

Bruce Friedman (29m 30s):
I hope, I really hope. Yeah, that’s kinda what I’m shooting for is January at this point, I’m I’m unfortunately probably done. And again, this was the middle of August. We talk I’m done for 20, 21, 15 days of eating airline food was enough for me. Thank you. And that’s what it looked like. I got these little boxes, I should say. I should show you a picture and it looks like airline food and it tasted like airline food anyway. And we’re not talking about business class, unfortunately. So do you think the industry is better off now than it was one to two years ago? And if so, how?

Morgan Sommer (30m 11s):
Yes. I think overall the industry is in a healthier state. I think the attention on tube sites is actually helpful. In what way?

Bruce Friedman (30m 21s):
I think, are you talking about the negative or you talking about the negative attention?

Morgan Sommer (30m 26s):
Well, it depends on your perspective on that. I think, I think holding tube sites accountable for illegal activity and for misuse of the relationship with content producers is the way I’ll put that. It’s a good thing. I think that’s helpful to the industry. I think everyone I know that has, that found their ability to build and, or buy traffic completely controlled by tube sites that we’re also, you know, still engaging in forms of piracy. I think they’re better off. They’re finding that they’re, they’re doing better now. Revenue’s up traffic is up.

Morgan Sommer (31m 7s):
And I think that if you talk to a lot of people, you’ll find that they’re quite happy with the change in things. I think the democratization of traffic has increased again rather than decreased and being manipulated by a few power centers. So I, so yeah, the industry is better off. I think people are hopeful again. And I think, you know, with the COVID situation, lots of people found that their sales went up because people were watching more or stuff at home. So, you know, even though COVID is not a good thing, but I think that the industry itself is in a better place than it was a year ago or two years.

Bruce Friedman (31m 45s):
Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. Do you see any negatives from articles? Like the ones that were in the New York times and other assorted publications?

Morgan Sommer (31m 58s):
Not really. I mean, you know, we, those of us who’ve been in the industry a long time, we have seen articles and political people saying they’re going to clean things up or they’re going to go after this or that, or the big boogeyman of, you know, MasterCard and visa, having new regulations and all of these things. And it all usually turned out to be a lot of nothing. Yeah. And I think that’s kind of where we’re at still.

Bruce Friedman (32m 25s):
You’ve got a good, you’ve got a good perspective because you’ve been at, you’ve been at this a quarter century. Yeah.

Morgan Sommer (32m 30s):
I, you know, I have a perspective if I don’t know that I’m right. I just have one.

Bruce Friedman (32m 36s):
I think it’s, I think it’s a solid one. Based on your experience, do you think there are still room for startups in the adult industry?

Morgan Sommer (32m 44s):
I just think that they need to have a better plan back when we all started up, we could wing it and we made successes of things by winging it. And I think at this point, the, the environment that you have to move within is sure, and it has rules and it has processes and it has channels to maneuver through. And you need to figure those out before you go spend a lot of money, right. Or wasting time doing the things that won’t work.

Bruce Friedman (33m 15s):
Now, if you had some advice for somebody who said today, okay, I’m going to start a, a site, whether it be a gay side, a straight side or trans side or whatever, what would be some advice you’d give them,

Morgan Sommer (33m 30s):
Do your research research. What’s in the market now and don’t copy innovate. That’s the best thing I can tell you to do because there’s so many people that are copying each other and then their base totally tripping over trying to get the exact same audience, which will make it more expensive for you to get traffic and to get an audience. If you can find a niche that’s being underserved and that you believe has revenue potential, then go that direction.

Bruce Friedman (33m 58s):
Hmm. Okay.

Morgan Sommer (34m 0s):
Or if you’ve got lots of money behind you and you want to become the biggest and the best, then, then go look at what everybody’s doing in that thing and take all of the best things and cobble them together and then spend more on marketing than anybody else does. Right. But that’s, you know, only if you’ve got the money to do that kind of thing. Right. Or,

Bruce Friedman (34m 18s):
Or look at everyone who does things well and somehow do it better.

Morgan Sommer (34m 23s):
Yeah. But she will have to have a marketing budget at this point. All Pete, big time.

Bruce Friedman (34m 28s):
I don’t, I know, I know I’ve, I’ve, I’ve managed such, such marketing budgets. Where do you think the adult industry’s headed?

Morgan Sommer (34m 38s):
I think, you know, we are mainstreaming ourselves more and more all the time. And I think culture is changing, especially in Western Europe and north America. And I think, you know, work, the industry is coming out of the shadows largely. And I think we are going to be, you know, just another form of entertainment to most people. And, and I think that we will just keep professionalizing. There will always be, you know, the independent producer doing their own thing. But I think overall, this is turning into a big business.

Bruce Friedman (35m 17s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It always has been a big business, but it’s becoming a bigger business.

Morgan Sommer (35m 22s):
Yeah. And it’s becoming a professionalized business. Yes.

Bruce Friedman (35m 26s):
Well, I think that kinda goes along with, with people coming into it from the mainstream world, because people from the mainstream world and you, you were, you were doing some work in the mainstream world. So, so you know, a lot more about them now, but people in the mainstream world have a totally different way of looking at business than people in the adult world they do.

Morgan Sommer (35m 46s):
And then I think that’s, what’s difficult for people that come into this world from me and stream is that they don’t understand the tight-knit family. That it is that, you know, where we will still cooperate or will, you know, whether there’s friendly. Coopertition is the word I like to use where we, we may be competitors, but we’re still friends and colleagues and we’ll get together at trade shows and we’ll share, you know, a dinner or drinks with each other. And then we’ll go back to being competitors. But you know, when it comes down to it, we still see each other as all part of the same club

Bruce Friedman (36m 21s):
You have to with all the noise from the outside. Yeah.

Morgan Sommer (36m 26s):

Bruce Friedman (36m 26s):
Because you know, the times that I’ve seen the adult industry fight internally, that’s how you get destroyed.

Morgan Sommer (36m 34s):

Bruce Friedman (36m 35s):
I agree. Well, Hey Morgan, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on adult side broker talk and I’m looking forward to part three down the road. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, find new ways to monetize your site, such as sell advertising. If you’ve got a free site, like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site. If you have a tube, another way to make money is to sell premium memberships, offer free users, one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality or longer videos or both. You can also make the site ad free for premium members.

Bruce Friedman (37m 16s):
Start an affiliate program. If you have a pay site, this is a great way to increase your quality traffic and get more joins with all sites. You can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell your users. Pay sites can also sell, pay per view, where people have the option of paying by the scene for content. They can’t get on the site. This is another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee, sell them other products like toys and novelties market, your business, do things to improve your search rankings like SEO. And you can find some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our site list, all of the benefits of your site and your marketing and how they affect the user.

Bruce Friedman (38m 4s):
And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firm, such as adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time check services you pay for like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options. Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch. Plus got higher quality hosting in the process. Again, ask us for recommendations. If you have questions, always look for ways to do things more cost-effectively along with this, make your profit and loss statement, show more profit, increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that make sure your P and L statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs.

Bruce Friedman (38m 54s):
Not a bunch of personal expenses you put in. This will cost you money when you sell it may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you. If you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement, remember every dollar in profit increases the value of your website. As much as three to four times, this is why you need a good experienced broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars, more on their sale just by adjusting the P and L statement to reflect actual business expenses, as opposed to a bunch of tax BS. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to porn, actress, Coralyn Jewel.

Bruce Friedman (39m 38s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Morgan Sommer. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry writer Michael McGrady.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. One of the most famous affiliate programs in the adult industry. They’re a subscription-based dating adult social network and cams program with exclusive ownership of custom developed websites and offers in straight gay, hardcore, and mainstream niches. They’ve been a prominent and sustainable affiliate program for 18 years. The company has weathered countless industry changes in regulations and has always paid its affiliates well, and on time, this includes the entire affiliate database with historical performance data.

Plus the email list with 6.4 million active addresses, the technical platform has recently been rewritten and is modular based and built for scale. The entire system is hosted in the cloud, which allows for easy third party integrations, scalability, and cost optimization with focus on billing optimization, traffic monetization, and risk mitigation. The business intelligence system and team have been designed to maximize lifetime value and build a sustainable and longterm stream of passive income.

There’s a full technical infrastructure, including billing load balancer, gateway integration, and call center tools with customer support and content. This is a turnkey business that would allow anyone that is great at traffic acquisition to own the entire life cycle and lifetime value of the customer. It has the technical infrastructure, reputation, relationships, and systems and processes to massively scale revenue, all this for only 2.9, 5 million us dollars.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Michael McGrady. He is a writer at why not, Michael, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Thanks

Speaker 2 (3m 35s): For bringing me on Bruce. I’m really excited,

Speaker 1 (3m 38s): Excited to have you here. Now let’s tell you a bit about Michael he’s a contributing writer to why not.com. Why not cam.com and why not magazine? He’s worked on several news beats, including digital civil liberties, free speech, public health, ethics, drug, legalization, harm reduction, topics, national security, and other trade industry topics he’s been published in conservative, liberal centrist, libertarian, and international journals, and other news media outlets.

These outlets include the south China morning post filter magazine insights sources, NASDAQ, the Motley fool, the Washington examiner, real clear politics, real clear policy and real clear health. So we’ve got all our real clears out of the way. The Jerusalem post, the Denver post, the spectator, the center square wire service, the USA today, network and others around the world. He has higher education credentials in international relations and global public health policy.

Much of his current journalism focuses on the adult entertainment industry, of course, electronic cigarettes and harm reduction and immigrate. He is also the founder and chief executive of the NPR public affairs family of companies. And perihelion, I hope I pronounce that right creations where he produces podcasts on varying topics like drug use harm reduction and the history of Christmas. So drug route drug use for or against

Speaker 2 (5m 10s): Definitely in favor of drug use I’m in Colorado. So

Speaker 1 (5m 15s): Say no more.

Speaker 2 (5m 16s): Yeah. We’re, we’re kind of one of those bastions of, you know, drug, drug libertarianism. I, I call it, you know, where no one really gives a shit.

Speaker 1 (5m 27s): Well, you smoke in a fight. You really don’t give a shit. Right.

Speaker 2 (5m 31s): I am. I admit I’m I’m smoking right now, so.

Speaker 1 (5m 35s): Good. Good, good. Nice to have you in that state, I’ll take advantage of you. Okay. So Michael, talk a little bit about what you do for the why not network.

Speaker 2 (5m 47s): Oh, all right. So I, I was hired for, for why nots main webmaster and affiliate page. When i.com back in January, February as a freelance contributor, and I mainly just cover political topics and business side of things. So just with my experience in politics and covering these types of industry discussions, including free speech, digital, civil liberties, and, you know, health rights sets, workers’ rights, you name it.

I just found it. Why not to be the perfect place to kind of do that? It’s a great publication. I learned so much there already. And, you know, I’ve, I really am grateful to be there and just engaging in the industry as I am. So

Speaker 1 (6m 32s): Now you told me when we were talking casually, you’ve been an observer kind of a Voyager as it were of our industry and our industry media for awhile.

Speaker 2 (6m 41s): Oh yeah. Very much so I’m, I’ve read all the magazines I subscribed to ASN. I subscribed to AVN. I subscribed test is I’ve always read why not. I’ve always been interested in this industry. And, you know, I just thought to pull the trigger one day and, you know, I emailed my editor at my current editor at why not. And, you know, within a day he sent me a contract and now I’m here. So, you know, it’s, it’s been, it’s been fun.

Speaker 1 (7m 9s): You get any easier than that. What about the industry interests? You

Speaker 2 (7m 13s): Let us set politics, really the free speech components and everything we’re saying with section two 30 and you know, these types of discussions as it relate to <inaudible> and, you know, sex workers rights online, not to mention sex workers, rights and performers rights in real life as well. So with COVID and all the shutdowns and everything like that, it kinda just fit me to kind of find, you know, this, I call it an alternative career field.

I like to cover, you know, cause you know, a lot of people, when you say, oh, I write for a porn industry publication, they think that I’m writing about like films or I’m reviewing content. When in reality, I’m literally doing what I did everywhere from covering politics, interviewing politicians, industry leaders, chambers of commerce, you know, just doing that, but you know, engage with that. So just really just, I like the whole concept of politics, how this is such a very open and interesting industry.

Speaker 1 (8m 16s): Absolutely. Now this leads into my next question. You, as you mentioned, you previously did a lot of mainstream writing before. Why not? How has writing in the adult industry different?

Speaker 2 (8m 28s): I can be more boisterous.

Speaker 1 (8m 33s): Well, you can just say, you can just say fucking general and nobody cares.

Speaker 2 (8m 37s): Yeah. And you know, all these, all these crappy Republicans who just want to get rid of everyone’s free speech and you know, you know, I just liked to be more open and you know, I don’t usually use profanity that often in my writing, but sometimes it’s just, there have been a few pieces I’ve published for why not, where they’re pretty, they’re pretty strongly worded it pretty sarcastic, pretty bitchy. And I’m just like, yeah, these, these guys need to, or these guys just need to get out of office or we just got to keep it strong and all that.


Speaker 1 (9m 10s): Yeah, maybe we can find an island for them all, you know, forget about politics

Speaker 2 (9m 17s): Right

Speaker 1 (9m 19s): Now. Let’s talk about your foray into covering the adult entertainment industry. How’s it going? So

Speaker 2 (9m 26s): It’s been good. I’ve been able to do a lot in a very short time. Yes, I interviewed, yeah. I, I started writing a series on NFTs and how NFTs and blockchain are basically the future for the industry. And I got to spend a lot of time with some wonderful performers and producers so far. And I’ve just, like I said, it’s just been a fantastic experience. You know, I’ve never met so many professionals in an industry that know you most normies.

I call them most normal people. Wouldn’t expect us to be so professional because it is. And I just a hundred percent, a hundred percent respect everyone in this industry so far that I’ve interacted with. And it’s, it’s just been a great learning experience. Like I said, I know I don’t want to sound too green, but you know, I, I started officially covering the industry, you know, just this year. So it is, it is been a kind of a blessing in disguise and also challenge, but a very worth while challenge.

Speaker 1 (10m 32s): Okay. Now, why are you so interested in the politics surrounding the industry? Well,

Speaker 2 (10m 38s): When you think of it, the politics, including, you know, the free speech components, like section two 30 and you know, the free speech of internet users online, that, that doesn’t just impact, you know, platforms, adult platforms that impacts everyone. So why don’t we wait, I view it is why don’t we approach this from one of the most scrutinized industries that rely on internet freedom and try and make a case for everyone else to realize that, you know, we can’t have a far left Democrats or far right.

Republicans trying to control what people see and what they say on the internet. Obviously there are with limits, there are criminal things that we need to watch out for and we need to follow law. But the thing is, is that it’s, it’s the first amendment. And my, my religion, I like to say is the first amendment. So it’s just, I that’s how I care about it. It just, everything that happens to the adult industry can happen to, you know, the mainstream tech industry can happen. Social media, it could happen to you tubers. It could happen to even like, you know, religious blotters or something like that.

So it’s, it impacts everybody. And

Speaker 1 (11m 53s): What, what kind of burns me sometimes is the lack of awareness among the public. Especially people who vote Republican, how the lack of adherence to the first amendment, how, how dangerous it is to everybody.

Speaker 2 (12m 15s): Yeah. And you know, I I’ve noticed that too, especially with the rise of Trump. It’s just everyone, you know, the, the whole thing with, during the Obama administration is that conservatives and Republicans who, you know, didn’t like Obama, but weren’t necessarily so far writer they’re centrists or something like that. You know, they felt repressed because the liberal media, so to speak had that, that had their numbers, so to speak in the sensory, in their messages.

But you know, same thing happened when the Republicans came into power and now it’s just, it’s the same, same people, same, same bull crap on both sides where everyone’s just like, well, you’re, you shouldn’t have the right to say this, or you shouldn’t have the right to say this. And you know, this feeds into the toxicity of cancer culture feeds into the toxicity of social media de platforming performers for no absolute reason. It just, it’s all of this, it’s all of this craziness that not even just Republicans, but Democrats moderates, you name it, that they just, they don’t, they don’t think of it because, you know, yeah, porn’s this still this taboo field, this taboo part of society, but you know, it, it’s everywhere.

When you think about it’s the most far reaching industry I’ve ever seen. And that’s a good thing because it helps push conversations. And, you know, we need to have these free speech conversations still, especially when it comes to controversial speech. So

Speaker 1 (13m 45s): Yeah, and I think people take free speech for granted and they really shouldn’t. I agree.

Speaker 2 (13m 52s): A lot of people say they’re protecting free speech when in reality they’re censoring just what happened with the Florida social media bill, which a couple of my colleagues at why not. And you know, other publications in the industry have, have covered saying that, you know, this bill, even though it said to protect quote unquote, so for media or, you know, political viewpoints that are not favored by certain technology companies or something like that. But you know, it just, it, it, it impacts more than social media and, and passing an entire ICS, entire interactive computer service or an entire platform that meets the criteria of equal unquote social media network in these laws, including, you know, some of the largest tube sites in the space.

You know, a lot of the tube sites have social media functions and, you know, we have only fans now, which is completely premium social media and not to mention just all the other premium platforms where people can interact. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14m 54s): I mean, not to mention everything that’s happened with net neutrality in the last administration.

Speaker 2 (14m 60s): Yeah. I just P I w as we’re recording this, I just got a article out for why not? Yeah. For the net neutrality, EO from president Biden, yet second order, he’s asking the FCC to reinstate net neutrality, but he can’t really do that until he appoints, you know, the next democratic member of the FCC. Cause it’s tilts still two to two. And, you know, you got to have three to, you have to have a simple majority to pass regulation on that commission.

Speaker 1 (15m 31s): It’s just amazing that Republicans would be against something that’s so good for Americans and also be against something that is good for business.

Speaker 2 (15m 44s): Exactly. A lot of businesses reply, rely on that neutrality. Yep. And especially internet based businesses, almost every single business in this industry is internet based. And we rely on everyone in this industry relies on an open internet. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16m 0s): Well the only ones, we’re the only ones that are going to benefit from getting rid of net neutrality or the big are the big ISP.

Speaker 2 (16m 9s): Yeah. Those internet service providers, you know, they say they’re for, you know, supporting other companies that rely on their broadband infrastructures, but you know, it’s still at the end of the day, they’re still businesses. So they want to turn profit and, you know, restricting internet speed throttling and censoring content that just that’s profitable for them. Unfortunately,

Speaker 1 (16m 31s): Unfortunately. So what have you learned so far about this industry?

Speaker 2 (16m 37s): Pretty much everything I’ve said, you know, I’ve been learning the different factions, I should say. You know, the types of people, the feelings on tube sites, feelings on, you know, content piracy and I’m learning a lot of the, you know, the internal, my main thing is I’m not trying to be like a controversial lightning bolt or anything like that. I’m just trying to learn about the controversies in the industry that continue to impact fellow members.

You know, why people don’t partake with certain studios or student, certain genre film or something like that, or, you know, just the general intricacies of the internal politics of the industry, but also the external it’s impacting the internal and making things more complicated, easier, et cetera, just, you know, it’s kind of, it’s kind of what happens when you try and learn a subculture or an entire new industry in general, you know, corporate culture is not just relegated to individual businesses.

It’s, it’s definitely seen across an entire industry and in my time just covering media and all that, it’s just, you, you learn a lot about people, you learn a lot about different types of people, a lot of different types of actors in an industry or a certain space. Has

Speaker 1 (17m 59s): Anything surprised you that you’ve

Speaker 2 (18m 1s): Learned? Actually, no, I, I knew that, you know, this industry was a hundred percent professional, you know, all the accusations of, you know, porn being this gigantic conspiracy of, you know, you know, you know, the stupid Q Anon conspiracies or whatever about porn or some shit like that. You know, I know none of that was true. And one thing that I’ve learned just working in my field as a journalist and as a communicator is that, you know, you gotta always have to keep, keep an open mind when you’re interacting with people, even if it’s something you’re familiar with, but, you know, that’s, that’s, I’ve just learned that a lot of what the external forces against the industry say about the industry are not true and that’s a hundred percent true.

I know I’m kind of preaching to the choir here, but sure. It just, you know, it, it, I I’d like to say it again. And I like to be one of the thousands in this industry who say that none of what, say like an organization, like INCOSE says about porn or suicide or whatever they’re called, isn’t true. You know, it’s not this giant criminal enterprise or anything like that. It’s people who believe in sex positivity, people who believe in, you know, free speech and using, you know, what God gave them to not only make money, but to make other people happy and to make themselves happy.

You know, that’s the way I see it. So

Speaker 1 (19m 26s): Well, in many cases you just have to consider the source. And in the case of those sources, you can pretty much guess that anything they say is going to be a lie.

Speaker 2 (19m 35s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (19m 38s): Is there any type of journalism you haven’t done that you’d like to do?

Speaker 2 (19m 43s): I really want to get into a strain writing for the industry. I want to do, obviously it doesn’t take too much to write a scene. It’s just, I’m really into the law inform erotica and the features and the parodies and all that. And where there is actually a storyline, where there is a, a long form story, obviously with the sexualities sexuality implied. But, you know, I still really liked dialogue. I liked watching that even, even that late, you know, I don’t, I don’t just need to watch a clip or anything like that.

I actually like watching the entire film because I like to appreciate what the filmmaker did, especially with these feature films and these long form narrative films that are coming out of the industry. You’re like, I mean, there’s not too many.

Speaker 1 (20m 32s): Oh, no, there’s a few you’re, you’re like one of those guys who reads the articles in Playboy.

Speaker 2 (20m 37s): Oh yeah. I do read the articles.

Speaker 1 (20m 41s): Well, you’re a journalist. I’m not surprised.

Speaker 2 (20m 43s): I mean, you know, Playboy, you know, they, they definitely gone different directions, but you know, they’ve, they’ve published all sorts of people and Ian Fleming, it was published in Playboy. I think don’t quote me on that. You know, inflaming, he’s my favorite novelist. I love James Bond movies. I love the books. He was actually one of the reasons why I wanted to become a writer. So it was just like, you know, I liked reading archives and stuff.

Yes. I liked, you know, the visual displays and things mapped to scenes, but, you know, I I’d really do appreciate good wordsmiths and there are plenty in this industry.

Speaker 1 (21m 23s): Sure. No. What other projects are you involved with and how are they coming along?

Speaker 2 (21m 30s): There’s this, I’m working with a few folks on just some documentarian projects. There’s one project in particular that I’m very excited about. I’m not gonna give too much away, but it’s, it’s the film for, it’s the documentary for a mutual friend of ours and I’m helping her writes the scripts and the screen, the screenplay.

And I’m pretty much serving as like the proofreader and the editor for her as she writes and we transition, you know, her book to the screen. So,

Speaker 1 (22m 11s): So that’s the one year the most fired up about right now.

Speaker 2 (22m 14s): Oh yeah. I’m most excited about that. You know, it, it, it, I, you know, I’m pretty sure it’s going to be very, obviously I’m talking about later in the interview, but, you know, it’s, it, it, I’m very excited about that project. She’s, she’s nothing but a talent, great director, great, great writer. And, you know, she’s a great performer too. So, you know, it, it, I’ve learned a lot from her. I’ve learned a lot from the people involved with the project and, you know, I’m excited for it. So

Speaker 1 (22m 42s): Let’s talk about your recent writing for why not now what stuck out to you while reporting some of these articles,

Speaker 2 (22m 50s): Everybody’s openness, you know, everyone’s pretty open in this industry to talk, obviously, sometimes I’m just talking to people with pseudonyms or, you know, I’m talking to people who are just, you know, kicking me, press releases or something like that, but everyone is pretty fantastic in their own way. You know, there are some people that I haven’t spoken to yet that I want to, and I want to get involved more in the industry.

You know, I want to, like I said, I just want to enter, I honestly see this being a longterm career for me moving forward. But it just, everything I’ve noticed is just everyone’s professionalism, everyone’s mutual respect for different points of view, different approaches to projects. And, you know, everyone’s just been good. You know, obviously you’re going to have your bad actors in the industry and your workplace and all that it’s in for any industry, any office, but you know, everything’s been positive so far for me. And I’ve, I’ve learned, like I said, I I’ve said this many times, I’ve learned so much and it’s been a hell of a ride and it’s been so quick, but I’m so just so happy I’m here and I’m talking to you,

Speaker 1 (24m 5s): It’s a pleasure and honor,

Speaker 2 (24m 6s): Actually, LA LA with your podcast a lot. So it’s, it’s an honor. So, you know,

Speaker 1 (24m 12s): It makes me, that makes me feel good. So you’re the listener. Okay. That’s good to hear. Finally, I finally talked to him. That’s good. That’s

Speaker 2 (24m 19s): I love podcast. Yeah. Oh, sure. It’s the podcast all the time. I like audio dramas. I like news podcasts. I like talk shows like this. You know, I listen to all sorts of podcasts, even foreign language podcasts and stuff. I try and understand it with my barely passable French channel. That’s like, it’s it’s I like to, I like to learn. I like to read. I like to listen to so sure.

Speaker 1 (24m 44s): Now you mentioned that there’s some people you would in the industry. You’d still like to interview who are they?

Speaker 2 (24m 51s): I really want to definitely interview some of the superstars. I really would want to add interview Natalie Mars or a Daisy Taylor. You know, they’re, they’re stunning performers. I think both of them are really taking the industry by storm and showing that trans performance is just as sexy as you know, regular. I shouldn’t say that as a, you know, straight and gay performance and all that.

But I think that the trans presence in the industry has definitely grown. And I’d like to talk to these, those two heavyweights, several of them just, you know, to learn and see where they feel the industry is going and all that, you know. Right.

Speaker 1 (25m 37s): Right now. Yeah. I completely get it. Now. We’ve had some, we’ve had some stars on, on as well, you know, you know, you know, I had, you know, I had coral and on, I recently had lucky vet on and yeah. And Vicky was, Vicky was fabulous. She’s always fabulous. Everything she does. Okay. So let’s give your big secret away. Let’s discuss your experience with coral and Juul and the four or five days you spent together.

And, you know, when you, you know, when they, you know, in the article, you said you spent that much time there. I said, okay, there’s gotta be something more involved here. So how was it, how was it to spend four or five days with, with our friend Coraline?

Speaker 2 (26m 25s): Well, first off I come from very small town in Colorado. I look out at, out of my office and I see mountains and, you know, I, I hunt, I do all this, you know, I have a pretty outdoorsy, very quiet life. And I, you know, I’ve done big cities, I’ve done California. I’ve done all of it. Sure. But when the four or five days I spent with coral and you know, it just, it was the grade. It was just one of the most exhilarating experiences I had as a professional.

You know, I learned so much from her and obviously the secrets out, it was, it is a film. It is a project that Courtlands is leading it’s based on her book, her documentary, you know, where the, when the ice melts. But these I first stuff, you know, I fly out and I, I, I made this mistake of leaving the airport during the layover in Las Vegas. I have family in Las Vegas. We have a home in Las Vegas, me and my wife.

And I just had to go out and check, you know, I thought it’d be quick, but I missed my flight. And she was so pissed off at me, but I booked another flight. But having mine, the, the flight I booked was with Southwest airlines. Right. And that was when Southwest airlines had that gigantic failure for their weather software a couple of weeks ago. And I, my, my flight got delayed like five hours and I just ended up sleeping at my in-laws and then going back to the airport at like five in the morning, and then Cortland picked me up like seven or eight.

And she was like, I’m so angry at you. We can talk when we get sleep. And that was the first day. Oh, nice.

Speaker 1 (28m 19s): I can’t, it’s hard for me to imagine Carlin being angry at anybody,

Speaker 2 (28m 23s): But she, but she, I, I, it was my fault. And I, I owe her a lot for that. And, you know, after that, we just started getting professional and doing the work we needed to do. And, you know, just spending time with her was definitely something else. She is one of the most vibrant people I met in this industry. So far, one of the most vibrant people I’ve met in my life. And, you know, just based on the story I wrote for why not describing that was great.

That thank you. Thank you. That got

Speaker 1 (28m 56s): Know that got us conversing in a little led to this interview.

Speaker 2 (28m 59s): Yeah, it did. It did. We were hanging out at the Harris Southern California casino resort in Ray con and on the right-hand Indian reservation, kind of outside San Diego. And I was able to finally get to like, get her alone. We can talk, you know, all that stuff. We had fun. We got, of course we got drunk, but I mean, it’s just like, it, it was definitely worth the experience. She, she opened up to me, I opened up to her and you know, now we’re good friends.

It’s just one of those situations, you know, like we talk pretty often or still working on projects together. She’s sure she’s been, I like to think that she’s kind of been a mentor for me in this industry so far I’m on others, but she’s definitely been fun, but the entertainment of just being around her, you know, her, her quirkiness, her, her professionalism, her creativity, it was intoxicating. And it, it was certainly a worthwhile to spend time with her.

Speaker 1 (29m 60s): Yeah. I got to tell you the whole experience of doing the interview with her. And that’s, that’s been the, all of our contact except for some emails and some Skype messages. So we have yet to meet in person yet, like so many of us during the pandemic, but I just, yeah. She blows me away. You know, the, the, the question I asked of course, was what do you do in your spare time? And she’s a, she’s a 24, 7 type of person for sure.

And I, and I encourage people to go to why not this isn’t going to run until the fall, but I encourage people to go to why not? And, and search in Michael’s works for, for Cornyn’s article. It’s,

Speaker 2 (30m 48s): It’s entitled hustling with coral and Juul. Yes. And, you know, I think it w it was pretty funny. This video is Encore. Berlin’s only fans. We were hanging out in the hotel room before we went out to the casino floor. Well, we went to the casino floor, but we were really down. And then she started filming, complaining about how we were down. And then she turned the camera on me and she was like, what type of shoes are you wearing? I’m late. I’m wearing my slippers.

And she was like, my screenwriter is worrying, is like, it slippers on the casino floor and a wonder, we’re having bad luck. And I literally wore slippers on the casino floor. Cause you know, I just, I was tired and I didn’t really think anything of it, but it just, I was like, oh crap. Yeah. I should probably update my, my, my footwear. It’s hilarious. Yeah. And there’s a few other inside jokes in the article.

If you haven’t noticed that I can probably did into more on a, on a different date, but you know, it was just, it was, it was fun. You know, I got a glimpse at her life, you know, she put me up in her home. It was very kind of her to let me stay with her. You know, we had dinner. No, it was kind of fun. You know, just to two friends hanging out working, I got to see where she hosts her hanky-panky podcast, you know? And, you know, I learned about a lot of her upcoming projects outside of the film and the documentary work.

And it, it just is, I just said it was worthwhile very worthwhile. And you know, if you ever get the chance to see her in person, definitely get her a drink

Speaker 1 (32m 35s): Just to hang out. She’s already, she’s already promised to come visit me, my wife and I in Thailand. So yeah, we’re looking forward to that. I know I want my wife to meet her now. I haven’t even met her yet, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (32m 46s): Yeah. Well, my, my wife wants to meet her too, so it’s just,

Speaker 1 (32m 51s): Yeah. I was raving to my wife about her too. So there you go. Okay. So let’s talk about your coverage of section two 30 and digital freestyle

Speaker 2 (32m 60s): Speech. Section two 30 is under attack. I mean, come on. I, I, you know, all the, all the legal blogs for the industry, all the lawyers in this industry, you know, they, they have some understanding of how important section two 30 is section two 30 of the communications decency act of 1996 is the so-called free first amendment of the internet. Yep. And everyone on this podcast knows it’s a third-party liability shield to prevent platforms from getting sued for the actions of a few select bad apples that use their platform, right.

That users, but that had this law has permitted a self regulatory environment and suffered a laboratory approach for all digital companies. Just about like, just not just social media, but even like our sites in the industry. You know, there’s a lot of self regulation in this industry and it’s owed to not just, you know, us wanting to be compliant and, you know, show that we’re a responsible industry, but also just because it’s section two 30 that provides the platforms and owners of these platforms, the tools and the legal cover to, you know, implement policies that support not only speech, but also protect user base and cashflow.

So it, it section two 30 is getting attacked because, you know, well, during Trump, you know, he said, oh, section two 30 is, you know, there’s terrible. It’s terrible. I, my Trump’s terrible.

Speaker 1 (34m 43s): Almost, almost sounds like Charles Barkley, but anyway, terrible, terrible.

Speaker 2 (34m 48s): It’s horrible. Let’s just made such sincere 30 repeal and it will be bright. I can’t, I can’t do Trump, but it just, just the attacks against the section two 30 coming from the left, the right. Especially the religious. Right. And, you know, the implementation of laws like assess the foster. Yep. You know, it just, it, there’s just this sentiment in the political lead these days that, you know, free speech isn’t really free.

And, you know, I think one thing that is mixed up is that the first amendment protects us, the people from censorship, from the government. Right. And it’s exactly, it’s exactly what they’re doing. What they’re, what exactly they’re doing is they’re trying to repeal section two 30 and they’re trying to sensor that’s exactly what the first amendment of the constitution protects us from. And, you know, you know, the court hits is I know the court cases, everyone in this industry should be aware, aware that courts at every single level in American governance, all the way to the high court Supreme court has at least confirmed that session.

Two 30 is protected under the first amendment. And is this important law to the growth and acceleration of internet technology, free speech communication through the internet, everything like that. It just, it did. It’s just being trampled. I rarely try and comment on the, the pain of some of the larger players in this industry. But I mean, like all these bogus lawsuits against the tube sites, you know, the Nicholas Kristoff stories, obviously there’s, there’s probably some evidence of like abuse by a third party user who used these platforms for bad and evil.

But you know, you can’t just blame the platform. You have to consider the fact that, you know, these platforms do everything they can to have compliant businesses. Yes,

Speaker 1 (36m 52s): Absolutely. And even, you know, even PornHub move, you know, the mind geek people and who own porn PornHub and all the other big or most of the other big tubes, they’ve been very, very Dell, digital and diligent. I can, I can talk, they’ve been very diligent about, Hey, and you’re the one smoking pot about

Speaker 2 (37m 14s): It’s medicinal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 15s): Of course, about keeping about keeping, you know, kids and, and other, you know, negative things off of, out of their content. And, you know, I’m much more so than Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or anybody else yet the Canadian government goes after them after this bogus series of articles by Kristoff, who I canceled my, my subscription to the New York times after the second art,

Speaker 2 (37m 48s): You know, it’s kind of sad. And this is coming from a journalist who’s learned from a lot of great journalists. I think Nicholas Kristoff is a good journalist. Well, he was, but you know, he got into this. Yeah. He w he has Pulitzer prize prizes for his reporting and war zones and Darfur, you know, he has all of this foreign correspondence experience. Sure. And he’s done so much for, you know, this field of journalism, but, you know, he bought into the alarmism of the anti-porn and tie trafficking, quote, unquote groups so easily.

And I, I, it just makes me sad to see that

Speaker 1 (38m 33s): Well, NCOC got through to him and yeah. And I, you know, I mean, they basically own him now.

Speaker 2 (38m 41s): Oh yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s just, well, it is that. And, you know, I think he didn’t do his due diligence as a journalist to even reach out to industry groups, like the association of sites, advocating child protection, you know, that’s a great org, you know, it’s, it’s literally a chamber of commerce that works to promote the RTA banner, the,

Speaker 1 (39m 4s): And it’s fully supported by our industry.

Speaker 2 (39m 6s): Yeah. And they even have, they even have they even work with the department of justice, they have a reporting line, all this stuff. And no,

Speaker 1 (39m 13s): No, the guy that owns it runs it very well.

Speaker 2 (39m 16s): Yeah. I interviewed it’s Mr. Henning. Yeah. I interviewed him while back for why not for an article basically, where I said, I asked him, like, did Nicholas Kristoff ever reach out to your group? And he said, no. And he said, he’d be welcomed. He’d welcome him with open arms to give him a look at what they do. And it just, it just, it, it’s just sad because, you know, I haven’t seen anything like that yet coming from Mr.

Christoph. And it’s, it’s unfortunate, he’s he has this history of being a tremendous journalist, tremendous author, but he, he just, he’s kind of proven to be no a Lackey for the anti-porn movement. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (40m 1s): So what do you think is the biggest policy issue facing the industry and indie adult content creators right now?

Speaker 2 (40m 10s): Well, that’s a big question. Definitely session two 30 and net neutrality, but that’s, that’s pretty top level, very broad, but you know, if we want to get into individual issues, you know, de platforming and you know, how the Nyla platforms, Manila, social networks just treat, you know, performers, profiles just like they’re terrorists or something like that. And that’s not, that’s not right. Yeah. Like, you know, you, you have the leader of like what a terrorist group on Twitter, but I can’t even follow my favorite porn stars on Twitter.

So, you know, that doesn’t make too much sense to me. So it, it, that to me is probably one of the bigger issues facing the industry. And that in itself is definitely something that needs to be done company to company, industry, to industry. And it’s just unfortunate. Cause you know, you know, Twitter is kind of Twitter as a platform at, for example is kind of succumbing to this pressure of the anti section two 30 people and all that. And you know, we can’t even share our articles from wine on.com on Facebook because it’s blocks.

Like they say it’s like harmful or something like that, or potentially harmful. I can’t even post my articles on my Facebook page. So it just, it it’s just it’s so it’s just so arbitrary and it kinda kinda just sucks. You know, I really could go on, I don’t want to sound like I’m ranting, but that honestly feels like the biggest issue. And that definitely kind of evolves in the politics and the policy. Of course, everything, of course.

Speaker 1 (41m 46s): So what are your aspirations moving

Speaker 2 (41m 48s): Forward? Ooh, another big question. I just want to get more involved, you know, I’m going to stick to doing what I’m doing now. I mean, I’m in a happy place. Sure. But you know, I still got bills to pay and you know, this is work, but you know, career aspirations or anything like that, I, I do see a long-term career in this space or on this Newsbeat or something like that, or getting more involved with, you know, the creative side of things. I really do. I just said, I really love writing.

I’m writing my own fiction novel right now. So, you know, I just, I want to, I just want to offer my talents and services to people in the industry that I feel I can mesh with, who I can get along with, who I can work with, who I can be friends with and, you know, just, you know, have that mutual respect and a mutual understanding and respect for feedback and creativity. And I just, that’s all of that one. I just want you to be more involved. I really don’t have anything more complicated than that.

I don’t have like a set goal or a set studio on a work with or anything, and I don’t necessarily want to perform myself either. It’s just, I want to, you know, I just want to be creative, you know?

Speaker 1 (43m 3s): Okay. So what do you like to do when you’re not

Speaker 2 (43m 6s): Writing? I am a very avid kayaker. I live near three lakes. Well, I go fishing almost every day. I like to do that, but I like traveling. I mean it wouldn’t, and I am a big fan of video games. Trust me, like I, I in comic books. So I’m a, I’m a nerd in real life. I have over 2000 copies of Marvel star wars comics.

Wow. And I, I do cosplay, so does my wife and all that. So, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re nerds and you know, we, we like to do that and we, I I’m obsessed with light procedural cop dramas. So I like watching law and order on repeat. So, you know, and I know almost every line of law and order SVU, like, like the back of my hand, I’ve watched that series so many times and it’s just like, I like to do that. And you know, I just, I like to write like personal stuff and just doing, having fun, you know, I, I’m happy to say that a lot of my personal interests are also my professional interests, so I can do things that I like to do for fun and get paid for it.

So, you know, it’s, and I want to keep it that way or try to keep it that way. So, you know, I think a healthy marriage of personal life and professional life for you pretty much,

Speaker 1 (44m 37s): Hey, it doesn’t get any better than that. Exactly. Well, Michael, I’d like to thank you again for being our guests today, Dan adult site broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 48s): Of course. Thank you Bruce. Thanks everybody. It was an honor being here and you know, I’m, I’m pretty open to, if you ever get my email or anything, just message me or something. And I, I usually write back pretty quickly.

Speaker 1 (44m 60s): You do. The pleasure was all mine. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (45m 3s): All right. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (45m 4s): My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your website design up to date, do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success. If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things.

I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’re going to end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more. Don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing?

Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet. The competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’re going to lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They click out immediately and go onto the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for.

If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Morgan Sommer of Live Jasmin and Dopler Group. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, Michael McGrady. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Filip from Quantox Technology.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale. That adult site broker actually our property of the week, this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available. In addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters right now, we have a cam site dating sites and pay sites available. We often have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons.

These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyers NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, coral and Juul interview porn actress and podcast host Lily Craven. You can find the hanky panky podcast@hankypankypodcast.com and wherever fine podcasts can be heard.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site broker talk is Philip chief executive officer of Kwan talks technology, the leading development and outsourcing company in the adult and affiliate spaces. Phillip, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk, Hey

Speaker 2 (2m 59s): Bruce, always obviously happy to join you and great to talk to you

Speaker 1 (3m 3s): Now, Phillip has been on our podcast before, and if you haven’t listened to the first go round, when we were like in our second month, I suggest you do. There’s some great information in there. Now here’s a bit about Kwan talks. Kwan talks has been doing development and outsourcing work in the adult and affiliate spaces for over 15 years. They’ve grown to over 350 people, man. That’s awesome. Including developers, programmers, customer support agents, virtual assistants, and more, they do all types of web and mobile development, including native apps.

Now at Kwan talks your employee not to mention your project. Won’t suddenly disappear and run away. God knows I’ve had that happen. Now that’s because they’re a company and not an individual. So, you know, your project will be completed. Their staff speak and write and fluent English. Again, unlike many competitors with a dedicated staff, your project will be done on a cost efficient basis. And since they’re offshore, you’re going to save money. They’re frequent sponsors of industry trade shows.

So you see Philip <inaudible> Dan and the rest of the team often. So Philip, how has the pandemic affected your industry?

Speaker 2 (4m 19s): So, yeah, we are now like basically two G years into, into this pandemic. And basically, you know, after the initial shock and big, big changes that we have been through, things are kind of getting back to normal because it’s definitely this new normal, how they call it right now. There are many things are changed. And what we are witnessing right now is that many things that seem to like temporary change are actually here to stay. Probably one of them is remote work.

Yes, our, our team is operating in six different countries and we are working with clients for many, many more regions and countries and conditions are different. You know, somewhere people are in the office and trying to get back to work as usual. But also we are seeing that in many, many regions, people are working remotely and even companies are deciding to switch and this strategy and to, and to work remotely because obviously there are some challenges, but also there are a lot of positive sides of these things.

We have seen many changes also in the industry itself, and these are different business models, some talk, some something down, some head to accommodate and change. So it was definitely very, very dynamic period behind

Speaker 1 (5m 39s): For sure. Now with the pandemic, we have a new era of remote work as you alluded to, what’s the best way to deal with it?

Speaker 2 (5m 49s): Well, yeah, basically a few years ago we had to invest. We as a company, had to invest a lot of effort to explain to our clients how remote work is actually being done because many of them were used to hiring only in-house people working from the same office from the same building being physically present. But nowadays these changed, as you said. And basically I actually did one conference like a few weeks ago and I was very surprised because, you know, from being like a company where probably eight of 10 people would tell us, thank you, but we are doing in-house now.

Now it’s like, everybody’s very interested when they see like, you know, near shoring, offshoring, outsourcing, remote work, and Dave, even if they don’t really need the development services, they are kind of keen to just like talk with us and maybe get some information and some hints and tips. And that’s actually how I got the idea that perhaps one of the topics on our today’s agenda should be just discussing the perks and challenges of remote work.

Speaker 1 (7m 0s): Sure, sure, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I, I, I think overall that I’d say virtually every company now accepts the fact that remote work for development and many other services is just a assist a fact of life.

Speaker 2 (7m 23s): Exactly, exactly. Like we are, we are seeing like an, and I’m hearing from our clients from adult industry that they’re also experienced some challenges where basically right now some huge mainstream companies are taking their employees, you know, and hiring them as a remote. So basically I just recently talked with one of our clients from Canada and they’re having huge challenges with big mainstream names like apple, like Shopify, like Microsoft, who are in us by insane time zone.

And they are messy. They hiring their people and sending them like really huge offers, different hard to compete with.

Speaker 1 (8m 8s): So as an it company with hundreds of employees, you become a bit of an expert on remote work. Now, what advice do you have for other companies dealing with this and what are the challenges?

Speaker 2 (8m 20s): Well, yeah, definitely. There are some things that people need to be aware of even before the pandemic. We, as a company offered two months of remote work to each and every employee during the year. So this was kind of a advantage for us when a pandemic happened, because you already have all the procedures, but also all the infrastructure that you need in place. So that basically we can be working remotely. But when I say working remotely, now this is the first thing that I would like to, to quickly cover and explain because people usually use a work from home and remote work is the same thing, but it’s actually not because remote work is usually when you basically work remotely from your original team, but it can be an office.

So, you know, basically let’s say you take three weeks to do some visit or anything, and you will maybe rent an office over there and work from the office. So working from home and remote work are definitely not the same. So that’s one thing that people should keep on their mind. And also tell the same when you have like a team of maybe 6, 7, 10 people working on a project and vinyl of them is remote or working from home. And then basically everybody’s.

So these are some differences that even we have experienced, even though we had it as part of our benefits before. So basically I would like to just go over a few things that we have experienced switch and actually feel that it would be nice to share with people who are working remotely. So basically one of the first things is you working from home, you need to make sure that you manage your own time and schedule properly.

There are basically two things that can happen. One is people postponing start of their actual work during the day, you know, and they always do the science of gals. And then they start working at 3:00 PM, which is good for our US-based bias because they will overlap with their working hours, but it’s maybe not really good for them and you know, their, their daily routine. And then the other trap that people fall in very often is that basically, you know, they just keep working.

They start working in the morning and it’s always like, you know, I’m at home, my laptop is open. So I will just try to do one more thing. And one more thing. So in general, it’s good to try to schedule your exact work hours and stick to them pretty much the same way as you would do. If you were working from the office, this is also very useful for your team members, because they will have some understanding when they can contact you. And then you are actually, you know, operative. So that’s, that’s, that’s one thing the other one is, as I mentioned, try to basically set your daily goals and to stick with them.

And then when you achieve it, you are done for today. Because again, when you are working from home, you can just, you know, continue and say, okay, I will just do this one more thing. And this one more thing, one more thing. And you know, very soon basically you realize that you are working all dates. This is not good for anybody because very soon it will become unproductive.

Speaker 1 (11m 40s): That’s true. And you burn out, you completely burn out. You know, they say about all work and no play makes Johnny a, a very adult boy. How have you been managing your own schedule and time? Are you able to make a schedule working from home and stick to it?

Speaker 2 (12m 2s): Well, to, to, to be honest, I’m kind of acception care because I live in the same apartment where our offices, so I worked from the office even during the pandemic. I worked from the office, but in general, yeah. I also try to follow these rules that I have. And maybe one more interesting one is basically making sure that you don’t have too many distractions. So for me, for example, you know, when I have important meetings or parts of the day, I read to be really focused and productive, I would switch from my home to my actual office and spend a couple of hours there.

So I don’t have distractions like TV or other family members coming in asking me questions and things like that. And then once I’m done, I can maybe move back to home and do some more casual or light work from home. My family, you know, just,

Speaker 1 (13m 2s): Well, not everyone has that advantage though. Philip, you know, I mean working from home and I certainly go through it myself, you know, you really never completely seemed to be off duty. How do you suggest people deal with that? Who can’t go upstairs to their office? Well,

Speaker 2 (13m 21s): Basically paid various option to try to create a home office. So obviously again, not everybody has enough space for it, but in general, it’s very good idea. You know, sometimes you can just use your bedroom and turn it into the office. And then the combined with my previous teams to have a regular work hours, basically, even your other family members you’ll know that maybe from nine to five, your bedroom is your office and they will not get inside and they will not interrupt you or bother you. And you will also feel a bit more normal, like, you know,

Speaker 1 (13m 54s): Good luck with good luck with that, by the way.

Speaker 2 (13m 57s): I know, I know it can be, it can be challenging, but, but yeah, another, another thing when we are talking about home office is a treatment. So what we have done in our company is basically the offered to all our employees to come and take any piece of equipment that they need and bring it home. And this can even be a desk and a chair. So not just like your visual Mysore monitor, but you know, in some cases, some of our team members actually, you know, came and took their chair because they need a comfortable space where they will not, you know, be working from their couch or from their bed.

And then Becky shows up to do this.

Speaker 1 (14m 34s): Now how about dealing with your team? Has that been a problem when, when people have been working at home?

Speaker 2 (14m 43s): Absolutely. I think that’s one of the crucial changes that people need to be aware of because starting from the, from the first minute you start your actual work, you know, when you come into the office, people actually see you and then they have to say hi, and you say hi, they know that you’re there, but basically when you are working remotely, it’s a very good practice to kind of check in. And when you start working, you know, just give a quick ping to your other teammates and tell them, Hey guys, I’m here. I started working. So they know that you’re available.

So that’s, that’s one thing. The other, the other is the actual, actual daily communication where you should, at least that’s what you recommend. You should try not to speak only with texting and emails, but actually try to do some, you know, voice calls with video on so that people can see you understand you and exchange much more information in much more efficient.

Speaker 1 (15m 40s): Okay. So what advice do you have for others when they’re setting up a home office? What equipment and tools will they need?

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): Well, basically, as I mentioned, like a good share is always, always a plus, but then some other things like, you know, having a proper monitor is very good thing because most of us have small laptops, which are, you know, easy to carry. But then if you are working for a longer period of time and in order to stay productive, in many cases, you will need more real estate on your points or more place for your apps or your CRO would be in our case and things like that. So that’s, that’s another thing then obviously, a good pair of headsets and headphones, because you will be spending a lot of time using DS when communicating with your team.

So it’s very crucial that they can hear you well and you can hit them. And this works without the needs issues and challenges. And as I said, basically, you can go and buy it, but you can also just go and pick it up from your office. I’m sure any other company would also have no issues if their employees would come and take some home?

Speaker 1 (16m 47s): Sure, sure. No. They want them to be productive. Right? Exactly. Okay. So what are the opportunities and advantages of working from home that people should be aware of?

Speaker 2 (16m 60s): Yeah. I mean, we were talking a lot about challenges, but they’re obviously plus and good things. Otherwise people would not stick to this. So from, from my experience, when I’m talking with our employees, one of the important topics for them is basically commuting time. So the time that they would spend or waste in traffic and again, in all the regions that we are working in parking space is a big issue also. So, you know, they would lose a lot of time in the traffic and then finding the parking space in this case, you know, you don’t lose this time and you can use it for anything else, like spending with your family or do some hobby, or like another thing, like we were talking about distractions at home, but there are also distractions at the office and I’m sure that everybody has experienced it.

You know, when you have people just popping into your office, asking you questions, or maybe asking your colleague questions, when we sitting next to you and then basically disrupting your, your focus and your productivity. So this is something that you will experience less here because litigation is a bit more structured and you have planned meetings where you will actually be talking about any, any important and important topics. One also very big advantage that we are utilizing and using lately is the fact that you can hire remote people.

So before even for us, it was like only people that can actually come and spend time physically in our office. But these days, you know, like right now I’m in team in Ukraine and we used to hire people who only live in queue, but nowadays we would hire people from other cities here and maybe get some really good experts, really good talents that he couldn’t reach other way. Hm.

Speaker 1 (18m 46s): And that’s, that’s gotta be a real attraction to potential employees that they can work from home.

Speaker 2 (18m 53s): Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Like for them, it’s a completely new market of opportunities because it’s not anymore, you know, you just need to look what companies are operating in your city or in your town, but you can work like, like we are having right now type of candidates that you’re hiring, they’re living in smaller towns and they are not willing to relocate, but they really appreciate the opportunity to work for a company like ours.

Speaker 1 (19m 25s): Sure, sure. Now, what is the state of affairs overall in the outsourcing space? Obviously we talked about working remotely and working from home, but what’s the, what’s the overall state of it. You know, the, it obviously is very fluid changes all the time, but where, where are things these days?

Speaker 2 (19m 53s): Well, basically these days, there is huge demand for more resources and manpower and talents. And basically we are seeing companies like crazing in different offers, including different benefits, get two good people on board and to not just get them, but also get them to stay and stick around for a longer period of time. And this is, this is something that, that are also doing, and this is something that is now also becoming kind of additional benefit for our clients where they don’t have to think about it.

Very, it’s basically our duty as a company to make sure that their team is happy, that they have good work conditions, that you know, that they are actively their projects within work, that old benefits they have entered the state because this is something that’s super important for most of our clients.

Speaker 1 (20m 51s): You guys have grown by leaps and bounds. You know, I’ve done some work for your company and I’ve watched you guys grow. And it’s, the growth has been crazy over the years. I remember when you had less than a hundred people and then it was one 15, then it was 200 last year when we did this interview, the other interview, it was two 50. And now you’re over three 50. What do you attribute the growth?

Speaker 2 (21m 21s): Well, basically VR doing, you’re doing two to two things and you’re trying to grow by two different models. One is expanding to new regions. So just this year we expanded to two more countries. So we are now operating in six countries in total, but the other one is also, you know, nurturing our existing offices and, you know, making sure that they feel valued and that also they get all the support that they need from us in order to grow, to grow more.

So it’s not just about opening the new offices and, you know, promoting this, but also making sure that your existing teams and offices are feeling good and that they will still recommend you to their friend or colleague and say, okay, come work here with us at,

Speaker 1 (22m 11s): Okay. Now you’re obviously always in recruitment mode. That’s, that’s pretty obvious to me. Why don’t you tell the people out there that are listening, who might be developers or customer service or other people that would be potential employees? Why, why should they work at Kwan talks?

Speaker 2 (22m 31s): Well, yeah, so phase you said we are, we are always, you’re always hiring. You’re always looking for good times. And you know, even, even if you don’t have exact a open spot or position in one of our teams, if we have application from somebody who we feel is a good to become our team member, we would just hire that person. And basically I would say it’s why would they come and work with us? I would say it’s combination of two things, at least based on the feedback that I’m getting from, from our team members, that’s company culture, where we try to keep it a stress, stress, peer environment.

And very, we try to basically make sure that every team member gets proper support, meaning that, you know, if you are a developer and working with us, you will have your project manager, you will have your HR, helping you with whatever you need. You will have your system admin here helping you with your equipment. You will have your Dell’s guy helping you with your dev stuff. So, you know, like you will really be able to focus and be the best, you know, you need to be best. And that’s the actual, the actual development. Second thing are our clients and our projects, which are amazing.

And as you know, we are working for a lot of industry leading companies and in adult space, especially this means, you know, working on a projects that are dealing with huge traffic, huge loads, where you really need to be on top of the game, you know, and be very scalable and be very secure and, you know, make sure that everything is working perfect all the time, but this is kind of adventure and something that’s challenging and something where, you know, every developer can grow.

Speaker 1 (24m 16s): Yes. As the CEO, I would imagine that your job responsibilities have changed a lot from the time that you had less than a hundred employees to having 350 plus, how have you dealt with,

Speaker 2 (24m 33s): Ah, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s always changing. Like actually yesterday I had long meeting with my CLL staff because we are just right now going in, going through one restructuring and basically, you know, adding some new positions and roles that we didn’t have before, but you realized that we are maybe missing them. And it’s a something where basically, you know, you really have to be careful and listen, what’s happening within your team.

And then react based on that. It’s not always easy to predict up front, but you need to react quickly. If you see that, you know, at some places you need to pay more attention that maybe somethings you need to do differently, you need to basically share the feedback from your team. That’s what you are trying to do. Just this, this January. I had personally one-on-one meetings with each and every one of my employees. So it was exhausting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25m 36s): How long, how long did that

Speaker 2 (25m 37s): Take? It was three weeks, four weeks, actually three and a half. I would say a lot of travel. So I, yeah, I was traveling to each and every country and city and talking to each and every employee and everybody had like 30 minutes with CEO to ask any questions, to give any feedback because you know, that can be very, very good. Both for them at me, it was great experience. I learned many things about us that maybe I didn’t know, and they had a chance to know, to ask any questions that they would like.

So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 9s): And, and I, you know, I know you and I know you well, and I know that you care and what you care about the most besides your family is your company and that, and that your company is doing everything that it should well along with your clients obviously. And that I’m sure that comes through to the employees. And that’s got to make a big difference when the CEO sits down and says, Hey, how are we doing? What could we do better?

Speaker 2 (26m 40s): Well, I, I believe so. I mean, that’s, that’s the reason why I decided to, to do it in this January. And that was like, because he had this whole pandemic thing, right. And I re I realized that there are too many people within our company that have actually started working during the pandemic. And they never, because like, when things are normal, you know, they would have like different team building activities. You’d have different company events and, you know, people could use these.

We have some meetups, people could use these to maybe, you know, spend a few minutes with me discuss about, you know, what’s, what’s going on in the company. What’s new and things like that. But since this was not happening, I realized that there are a lot of people who basically never had a chance to speak with me or some other of our C-level guys and, you know, just understand a bit better where they are, what we do, you know, maybe see a bit bigger picture of the company. Maybe hear a bit more about our clients, about their strategies, our plans.

But as I said, also for me, it was very, very useful to hear how they see us. Okay. And people were very honest and direct each.

Speaker 1 (27m 57s): That’s awesome. Now back to remote work homework, how about security? Okay. So you’re working from home from the point of privacy and security. What do people need to know and be okay,

Speaker 2 (28m 16s): When you are working from the office, you have much bigger support in this area and also much more limitations in this area, right? Because you are working on via Wi-Fi India is the secured. You are working on equipment that’s fully secure and things like that. When you are working from home, this is something that, to certain parts you need to take care of. So, but basically what I, what I learned and seen from experience is that sometimes even some very simple things like, like what I will give as a tip, number one to everybody is just, don’t leave your laptop at your coffee date.

Because like in last year I heard a lot of time. A lot of times, you know, just a simple things like, okay, so I got the coffee spilled on my laptop, so it’s not working. So I lost some of the daytime side, you know, or my kids just spilled something and things like that. So it sounds a bit silly, but trust me, trust me. Sometimes this can be a bigger danger than some, you know, experts, hackers will try to in your laptop. So yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s on the simple side of things, but basically I believe that there are some other things that you need to be very, very aware of and careful about starting with your document management, because basically a lot of confidential documents are now being shared and being worked on and contributed over middle Google docs or some other parts on you need to be very careful who you are sharing with and how you’re using it so that it doesn’t fall in the wrong hands.

Then there are some other things that people are not aware of. Like, for example, your calendar, which people are using extensively, when working from home, you need to be aware of that. It’s some new features. Google is actually by default showing the titles of your events to other people. So you find to, to book a meeting with you and basically try to see what are the empty spots and slots in your calendar. I will be able to see the titles of your meetings. So, yeah. So you need to be aware of that.

Speaker 1 (30m 29s): That’s another reason, another reason not to use Google for that.

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): You can obviously disabled this, you know, but I can see that many people don’t and then if you put the title, like, I don’t know, ending cooperation with, Quantock said that seat when I’m making a meeting with you, it can be kind of food center, embarrassing situation. So at least you’re ready.

Speaker 1 (30m 51s): At least you’re ready for it.

Speaker 2 (30m 53s): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then you need to be aware that, you know, if you are working from home or remotely, you’re using public wifi, this is the traffic that can be monitored, that can be intercepted and you should have your office VPN set up and use it all the time. When you are doing something that’s confidential report. Now,

Speaker 1 (31m 14s): What are the latest trends and how have they been affected or caused by the,

Speaker 2 (31m 20s): The pandemic? Yeah. Basically there are like few different models or platforms that are like really booming right now. I would say that’s probably the first one is anything related to subscription-based content gated content. So basically I believe that one of the reasons for this is just the fact that there are more content producers and there are more people who are willing to become content producers into current team and, you know, not being able to travel or do something else or, you know, events.

So this is definitely something very, we get a lot of requests for different type of subscription-based content platforms. Then the second one is definitely everything that has to do with live video. So any kind of live video streaming, we have seen like this industry being doubled in 2020, it was already huge. And there are some projections that the next five years it will grow to be $150 billion industry.

So really, really huge behind it. Another interesting thing, or figure that I have stumbled on recently is that at the moment 80% of all the internet bandwidth is being spent on liabilities. So yeah, that’s

Speaker 1 (32m 41s): Crazy.

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, just like, I would say one of the latest things that’s, that’s becoming a trend is a progressive web applications. They are here for a long time just to give a quick explanation, basically PWR or progressive web applications are websites that provide you a native application experience on a mobile phone, which means that you don’t have to actually go on app store on Google play to install the app, but you will have an icon on your, on your home screen and basically you can access it offline and you can basically have the whole experience of push notifications and other things just the same way as if you had installed application.

This is something that’s been here for some time, right. But just recently Google basically changed some of their integrations and some of the dating industry models are now no longer acceptable on their Google play store. And so people need to switch to this kind of model in order to keep their mobile traffic there. So this is asking that’s really, really,

Speaker 1 (33m 58s): I would imagine as limiting as apple is, and like you said, as much as Google is scale that that back the native apps have to be huge, right?

Speaker 2 (34m 8s): I always like need to have so always are always huge, you know, and it’s growing because mobile traffic is growing. So this is something that’s, that’s kind of, let’s say mandatory, but again, as I said, progressive apps are becoming very popular. And also because of the fact that you cannot put any adult content on any of the app stores, but if you create the progressive application, it can be shared on your website. It can be shared text messaging very easily and installed, or also it’s a bit more cost-effective because you call it only advanced compared to native applications I have to call was completely.

Speaker 1 (34m 46s): So that’s the main difference between a native app and a progressive app. I was just going to ask you that. Yeah. Yeah. So with, with the native app, you need to keep coding

Speaker 2 (34m 55s): Native app. Basically, you can just code it once, you know, you can have just one team of developers coded for you, and then, you know, you use it on both platforms, which is quite,

Speaker 1 (35m 6s): And how’s that different from the progressive app, just to, just to be clear.

Speaker 2 (35m 10s): Well, on basically that’s for the progressive that’s the

Speaker 1 (35m 13s): Progressive

Speaker 2 (35m 14s): <inaudible> on the progressive app. You code it only once, and then you use it on different platforms, like on apple and on Android phones, but for the native ones, you have to build them completely different way. Right? Yeah. This process is much more complex,

Speaker 1 (35m 33s): So that’s all, so that’s all going to be based on the, on basically browsers, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 (35m 40s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (35m 40s): Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Do you think there will be a time where progressive apps will just kind of take over?

Speaker 2 (35m 48s): That’s a very, very hard to predict, to be honest, I believe that they are taking more and more of the space in the mobile development, but we are still seeing also a lot of need for the, for the native patients themselves. So,

Speaker 1 (36m 4s): And that, and that will also work on laptops and desktops. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Learn something every time I talked to you, Phillips, what would your advice be? So we’re prepared for what’s ahead of us.

Speaker 2 (36m 19s): Well, yeah, as you can see, there are like a lot of changes. And basically what we have the best in last two years is something that people like to call forced to digitalization. There are basically a lot of things that maybe would take years to happen happened in months. This is a good from some point of view, but also what we are seeing is many unstable products and many unsecured products because of the needs to build up quickly. So I, I believe, you know, one of the things to be aware of is that, you know, if you are building a new product and of course you want it to build quickly, you need to keep your eyes on that.

The dose of things, making a stable, making it safe because you know, later on it can really, really become an issue for you. And then if you’re talking, if you’re talking about, about the future proof platforms, what is basically starting to become kind of a standard is multi experience development. And this is something that we are actually promoting strongly in last year. So just to explain quickly, what it means is these days you are getting much more touch points and different devices that you can use for the same activity.

So you use not just your mobile phone and your laptop. You can also use your virtual glasses. You can use any other variable, like smartwatch, voice assistance, chatbots, a lot of different things. And basically it’s not idea anymore that you just are able to install and use the same software on all of these. It has to be consistent. So basically it tests you be built in a such way where I can start the process on one device and then continue it to another and finish and third run and do it all seems.

So this is multi experienced development. And this is something that, you know, we are encouraging our clients to adapt because it’s becoming kind of standard. So like very, very simple example would be Netflix obligation where you can start watching the movie on your laptop and then finish on your smart TV. And you don’t have to think, you know, what was the last episode that I had seen or where did I stop or things like that. So they, they become like, people get used to these kinds of simple things very quickly.

And you know, then if they are missing them, it’s very disappointing.

Speaker 1 (38m 52s): Yeah. And I, and I know I noticed that that’s already the case on, for instance, on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (38m 60s): Yeah. Yeah. All the bigger platforms are adopting these and trying to follow this as, as a trend, then all the food delivery apps that you are working, reaches e-commerce platforms. You can start your shopping on one device. You are maybe interrupted. You want to continue that later on each all has to be like 40 plus.

Speaker 1 (39m 20s): Interesting, interesting. Again, I learned a lot every time we talk, Phillip, well, Hey, I’d like to thank you once again for being our guest on adult side broker talk, and I’m looking forward to, to part three at some point in the near future.

Speaker 2 (39m 37s): Oh, it’s great talking to you and always happy when you invite me to one of these, one of these stocks and looking forward to that time, me too,

Speaker 1 (39m 46s): My broker tip today has to do with what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, this will be a multi-part series first, make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic’s expensive. Whether it’s search engine, traffic, review, site, traffic, or affiliate traffic, you paid a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is you want your visitors to do in the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay in north America.

Most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world credit cards, aren’t used nearly as much in Europe. For instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from in Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing countries. Many people pay by mobile, do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions you get. Most of your traffic it’ll make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, had them want to buy, but since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t.

If you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this is to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate. People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies, where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user, you poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out.

Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site next, make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer, isn’t good. You won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact your, to get more information that make the offer attractive and easy to understand, if you’re selling something, make buying easy, show them an easy way to buy and then leave, help them by making suggestions on what to buy.

amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this. If you can, don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to do. It’s not that hard. Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process, like a human being, whatever you do, don’t turn over that process to your designer.

Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end. It will not give you what it is. You’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be talking again to freelance writer, Michael McGrady. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Filip from Quantox Technology. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with professor and author Edward Shorter.

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There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic now only $595,000. Next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, Cortland Juul will interview legendary porn performer, Richard Pacheco, AKA Howie Gordon.

You can find the hanky panky podcast@hankypankypodcast.com and wherever fine can be hurt. Now, time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker talk is professor Edward shorter. Edward, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk as you to be here. Pleasure to have you. Now, Edward shorter has been studying sexuality for many years. His first book about it written in the flesh, a history of desire won several awards.

His new book Stormy’s world is really volume. Two of that series, and it’s about the adult entertainment industry. As a pipeline into sexuality, producer’s conceive themes to make money, and they have an exquisite sense of what the market wants. The book is a history of the adult entertainment industry from the early days to the present and emphasizes the enormous increase in the availability of porn to a worldwide audience. The shift in themes from missionary position to every style of erotic activity imaginable.

And for men in command to women, increasingly playing an equal role. New themes include the explosion of fetish and role playing and porn and the alignment of taste among heterosexuals, gays and lesbians toys and camming are not strictly pornography, but they have chapters as well. The book also discusses the recruitment of models and their treatment in the industry. The book closes on a note that finds adult increasingly female friendly and approaching the status of mainline journalism.

His next book in the series will be porn goes global. He’s a professor of history at a major north American university. Now Edward, there have always been dirty pictures as it were. What’s new about,

Speaker 2 (4m 40s): Oh, what’s new about corn? Is it, it turns into an industry as you observed. There’ve always been dirty pictures going back to the walls of the caveman, but you start to get a proper industry after the second world war with, let me just back up for a second. Insurance porn, visual porn is much more exciting than porn in print and because of freedom of the press, there have always been dirty novels time dreadfuls and they couldn’t really be prosecuted for obscenity.

And that’s what men in general usually read. They picked up these dime dreadfuls and got excited by them. They didn’t have access to images because I was sending images across state lines counted as obscenity, and it wouldn’t be defense wet after pornographic images, right up until Supreme court legislation said that we’re going to let community guidelines determine what is.

And so at that point in federal prosecutions of obscenity pretty well came to an end. So in the sort of pre federal obscenity days, there were producers people such as rest of Meyer. For example, the immortal T’s 1959 shot in 35, rather than a eight millimeter. And going back to the 1920s producers had shot loops and eight millimeter loops being things that you could go into the dirty bookstore and you for a quarter, a pop and the quality was terrible.

And of course there was an audio, but, but at least they were better than print. So this kind of thing had always existed. And then later in the 1960s, early the 1970s producers started making feature length films and they shot on 35 rather than eight, which is always a bit of a perilous undertaking because you don’t know until you review the footage, whether what you got on 35 as usable or not just came to an end with the advent of monitors on cameras in the 1980s, but 35, it was much better for using movie theaters.

And so the early industry shot a feature length porn for movie industries and this all, all this story begins in New York and in New York, because basically that’s where there were a lot of beautiful women and people willing to take chances on this new art forum. And so people like sessile Howard, for example, directed some early productions on a refresher. ARD was a well known actor, Gloria Leonard, candida Royal.

These were all actors whose careers began in New York before moving out to the coast. And there certainly involvement with crime at this point as well. Al Goldstein for example, was the editor of screw magazine. Goldstein had all kinds of industry connections. Her Damiano who produced deep throat was financed by a mobster Rubin Rubin Sterman, who was an important distributor, had to have a mafia connections.

And then, and they did in the sixties and in the 1970s, the story moves to San Francisco and Alex Derenzy who are brought to this country, the hardcore porn film corn in Denmark. Cause he went over to Denmark and bought it. And that is aired in the us in 1970. And that would probably be the first really hardcore feature-length pouring film in San Francisco as well.

There were the, the Mitchell brothers

Speaker 1 (9m 6s): I grew up in, I grew up in San Francisco by the way. So I’m very well aware of the Mitchell brothers and their, and their, and they’re sorted history.

Speaker 2 (9m 13s): Okay. Yeah. Well, one of the Mitchell brothers killed eight other. It started history, but then in San Francisco turned out to be not ideal for a number of reasons. And so the straight hetero side of the industry moves from San Francisco down to LA to Chatsworth, which is in Los Angeles county, but it’s not in LA as such. And this is important because the LA cops were just death on obscenity and they made life hell for people to try to tried to base themselves in LA.

Speaker 1 (9m 47s): That’s why they ended up in Chatsworth. Wow.

Speaker 2 (9m 50s): Well, that’s one of the reasons, the other reason for Chatsworth rather than some other site in, well, such as California, was that you had this huge pool of filmmaking talent in Hollywood. Oh yeah. The makeup people, the camera people, they were all in Hollywood for the mainline industry and they were happy to drive up to Chatsworth and Moonlight for a few extra bucks. And so that was really crucial in determining Chatsworth as a location and so Chatsworth.

And there was a big ranch nearby where some shooting took place, became the epicenter in the late 1960s of the porn industry. It was called the Iverson ranch actually. Did you know the new, the Irish and ranch?

Speaker 1 (10m 44s): I don’t know a lot of this and this, this is fascinating. So please go and go on.

Speaker 2 (10m 49s): Cool. Well, and so Chatsworth was not entirely Virgin territory. So to speak for point a there had been porn magazines that had been produced in Chatsworth from the 1950s on Milton. Laura Rose was an editor for a couple of adult magazines. And, and so in Chatsworth feature link porn film started to be produced.

The sadistic hypnotist is really the first feature linked hardcore porn in 1969, Mona the Virgin nymph 1970. And it took off from there, no balloon launched a Cabalero cover yarrow controlled in 1974. They were a big producers. And, and now some of the familiar names in porn, they start to appear on this screen in Chatsworth, John Holmes, for example, there was this enormous penis, 14 inches, Maryland, Bruce, and so on irresistible, for example, featured them in 1980.

So that’s sort of sets the background for the creation of adult filming as a real industry. And the inflection point here is the foundation in 1984 by Steven Hirsch, a vivid video, right? And the story was that his father, Fred Hirsch had been an executive for Stormer. And so that got gave Steven the open end of the industry or, and in 1984, he and a sidekick founded vivid video.

And that vivid turns into a big deal and they produce a lot of footage and they bring in, for example, the practice of having vivid girls, I hate to call them girls, but that’s the standard. So young women who would become IX models exclusively for vivid, and they would get that would be a big career boost for them. And that would give vivid it kind of identification point for the public as well in the 1980s and the big migration from New York to the San Fernando valley to chess where it begins.

And some of the important figures that come out are, are Ray and our repairs yard. And the thing then becomes a very substantial commercial opportunity becomes a very substantial industry. Interesting.

Speaker 1 (13m 28s): Wow. Now from your studies, what do people find so appealing about

Speaker 2 (13m 35s): What people find appealing about porn is that it enlarges the erotic imagination. You don’t reach adolescents with a big erotic imagination. You don’t know all the interesting things out there to do, but you basically in the backseat of somebody’s car is the missionary position, maybe a hand job or a blow job, but that would be the end of it. But of course, adult sexuality is much richer than that. And people who’ve become bored with the missionary position and want to expand the erotic imagination consume porn.

Of course, they masturbate to it as well. It’s this notion of new themes. Plus masturbation that drives forward, the discovering of new themes and point is just filled with exciting new themes. And we can get into that in a bit if you want, but this is the basic motor masturbation fueling the discovery of things like anal intercourse, which you don’t discovering the backseat of somebody’s car, fueling threesomes fueling the whole world of role-playing is it’s now called BDSM or SNM, which you definitely don’t get into as an adolescent golden showers.

These are all themes that many adults find interesting and delightful, but they didn’t know about right. We didn’t have dream to them. They could be a lot of fun to be tied up or to tie somebody else up. And to flag them were to be flogged. This could be a really interesting kind of erotic activity, as opposed to Gestapo like torture. This is what drives the story for it. All of these expanding 400 sexual activity and the enthusiasm out there in the real world about discovering them.

Speaker 1 (15m 28s): So Edward, have there been changes in themes featured in adult films and sites such as fetish role-play

Speaker 2 (15m 36s): Oh, there’ve been big changes since the 1970s pre 1970, some of these things were unheard of being forced to do something. For example, as a man, this scenario is that you are submissive and you are being dominated by a woman and she forces you to do things that you is, Hey, a normal man would never do such as to cross dress as a woman or to have a homoerotic experience to go down on another man. But she forces you to do this now reality.

These are things that you really wrong and to do that you are just very reluctant to be upfront about, Hey, I’d really like to go down on another man. No, most adult heterosexual men don’t say that, but they will do it if they’re forced to do it. And so the thrill here is the experience of domination being dominated and being forced to do something that you otherwise wouldn’t do. And so this whole world of BDSM role-playing SNM really opens up after the 1970s.

Of course there are, has been dominant women and catering to fetishistic tastes in men that is not new. And women in leather, for example, goes back to the 1920s. But this turns into a whole sort of scene after the 1970s, as BDSM becomes a major theme. And now, regardless of the content of the particular porn flick, it’s unusual to find models who are not wearing boots.

And this would have been very much a kind of marginal tastes before 1970s, there were rebooted and then before the seventies, but this wasn’t their rigor as a industry garner before in front of the camera. After the 1970s, the booted a woman becomes a standard kind of a trope in front of a camera, whether she’s doing an actual, a BDSM scene or not. So that shows the extent to which the sort of BDSM flavor comes to dominate the entire scene, but there are other new themes as well, this whole business about domination and submission.

And although it existed before the ninth, 1870s was never a big and pre-modern point. It becomes huge after the seventies. And it goes very much hand in hand with the changing position of women in society. Women in the real world don’t necessarily become dominant, but they become cool equal. They get out of the subordinate positions, they were in for so many decades. And this is a natural expression of the woman of the woman’s equality in the real world that in bed, she would play the role of dominant as long as she has a partner who wants to be submissive and in the real world as well.

There are a lot of women now who wear leather as street garb, and it turns men on it makes them feel powerful and Hey, why not? They are powerful. So, yeah. So this becomes a kind of coloration that flavors, the entire industry. So of levels, there are our new themes. That’s the basic point. Okay.

Speaker 1 (19m 8s): Okay. Now you talked about the changing role of women in society and you’re right. There are powerful. We’ve got a woman as the vice president of the United States. Do you think Kamela Harris has any leather pants? I don’t know. We’ll have to ask her that anyway. How about adult models and how they present themselves? How does that relate to the

Speaker 2 (19m 30s): Well adult models is something that sounds glamorous to women in little towns in Arkansas, going out to Chatsworth and having all kinds of high powered sexual experiences. And Hey, why not? You would like to have sex. You have a bit of an exhibitionistic streak in you. So you get on the bus and the bus stops in Chatsworth and you get off in a career important begins. And it’s just something a lot of young women become quite excited about.

And it’s not that they’re necessarily disillusioned about a third of them, of the new recruits get out of the industry after making, after a couple of shoots because they just like this kind of sex. There’s no foreplay. They are having sex with men when they’d never laid eyes on before they are being choked out. For example, by men who are actually strangers, although choking women out now is sort of frowned on in the industry, but it used to be not uncommon that the male model would reach out and choke the female as part of an expression of his dominance.

And then this became viewed very poorly than in the industry. And it went out of style, but there, there are lots of things about working in the industry that can turn women off. And so about a third of them quit because they don’t like it. Now, a number of other women do stay around for one reason because the money can be fairly good. Yes. If you shoot regularly, you will make a lot more than you would make working in the final of nom.

And as well, you have the possibility of moving from the front of the camera to the back as a PR or a director, or doing something else behind the camera and behind the camera. There’s a real kind of comradery, a real social scene in which you become friendly with people. And if you come to feel yourself as part of a community, and you don’t necessarily feel a part of a community as a model where you don’t have a lot of prestige, for sure there was a questionnaire a couple of years ago, people in the industry would ask, would you like your daughter to go into the industry?

And a number of people said, yeah, behind the camera, sure. Produce your director doing some other behind the camera function. Why not? Nobody said that they wanted their daughters to become models, right? And models have a very low social status and they try to move out of that rule as soon as they can, unless they are just spectacularly successful. There are these women like Gloria Leonard, for example, there candidate Royal who spent their lives in the industry and made a lot of money and became famous.

So if you are, if the next candidate Royal, then Hey, great. But most women are not sure.

Speaker 1 (22m 35s): Sure. Now obviously porn was once considered to be anti-woman. Is it still that way in your view, for instance, we have female producers like Erica lust, they’ve added greatly to the, to the female porn audience. No,

Speaker 2 (22m 53s): I think how long is definitely seems to be anti-woman. There was a certain point at which women were really just objects of male desire. Let’s say, who would lie there passively while the man did his thing. And that would be the end of the story. And there were a lot of guys who were like watching that because it, it was fun to watch and they would themselves get off in their bathrooms, but it wasn’t something that was empowering for women in any way.

And then women start start getting involved on their production side, right? Holly Randall, for example, Nina girlfriend’s films. These are all sort of names to conjure with, for if we’re talking about women who are becoming empowered in porn, rather than just being passive objects as models. And so that is one way in which pulling those become female friendly.

A lot of women produce images that they know other women will respond to filming sexual activities that they know will turn on their female viewers. And that’s the difference between female produced porn and a lot of male produced porn men don’t have a big erotic imagination in the area of what turns women on. Of course, women know this implicitly. And so this is what gets women now into the business of producing corn.

They’re producing for other women and

Speaker 1 (24m 33s): Couples.

Speaker 2 (24m 35s): Sure. For a couple of, but if you’re producing for couples, you’re producing something that the female part of that coupled is going to respond to. Yes,

Speaker 1 (24m 44s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (24m 45s): And so this is very big today. Women is directors and producers, and even women as models playing a dominant role. For example, in a BDSM scene, a lot of women like doing that, they respond to it. It means that they don’t necessarily have to have sex. Not every woman in the world likes the idea of being penetrated by, in an anonymous male, but in BDSM, there’s not necessarily penetration, right. The guy gets off responding in things are things like boot worship, nipple play, right?

And so these are all themes that empower women in the camera, or indeed in, even in front of the camera, if they’re playing the role of a dominant tricks in a way that’s very different from just lying there and being penetrated by an anonymous nail. Right.

Speaker 1 (25m 36s): Right. And of course, when you talk about women being empowered, there’s a shift in the entire industry. When you talk about the clip and fan sites.

Speaker 2 (25m 46s): Yeah. These fan sites have become a big business for sure. And a lot of those are female initiated videos that these, these clips are taken from our female initiated videos or videos in which women really are the main stars and the guide very much secondary.

Speaker 1 (26m 8s): Yeah. If there’s guys, if there’s guys in it at all, I mean the women have really taken the, the women, the, well, the models, I should say because there’s men too, but the models have really taken the power with these, with these clip and, and fan sites.

Speaker 2 (26m 23s): Yeah. That’s for sure. And these fan sites are heavily inter woven with BDSM.

Speaker 1 (26m 32s): Well, there’s a lot of it. Yeah. There’s a lot of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26m 35s): That’s a huge thing. It’s not just a missionary position penetration. Right,

Speaker 1 (26m 40s): Right. Yeah. Or, or, or just glamour shots or just, you know, nudity or sometimes there’s no nudity.

Speaker 2 (26m 49s): Yeah. Anything, in other words, it might appeal to the male or female erotic imagination and you buy a piece of a fan site for relatively little money. You don’t have to subscribe to a service. There’s no big financial investment and it’s, it gives you enough time to get off.

Speaker 1 (27m 10s): Exactly. Now obviously gay porn is, is, is very big. What changes have you seen in gay porn over the years?

Speaker 2 (27m 18s): A big theme in gay and lesbian porn is the convergence of tastes with hetero porn. And one of the tastes that converges in gay and lesbian porn is fetish and domination. These are huge themes in gay porn, the leather man and the leather man doesn’t appear in gay porn until the 1960s before the 1960s, there was of course gay porn, but it tended to portray gaze as a feminine.

That’s why the gays were once called Nancy’s or Nancy, because the idea was that they would in the gay bars, they would address each other as Nancy and then go home and cross dress. And they had our outfits. So we’d let them dress it up as women basically. And this was the world of gay sex before about the 1960s. And then Stonewall happened 1968. And all of a sudden the leathered flown appears on the scene that muscular gay man with wearing a harness, leather jeans, boots, anything but a Nance, anything but a queen.

And so this is the gateway that has survived up until today. The gay gay man is identifying with a leather man featuring fetish. Interestingly, the same thing seems to have happened within the lesbian community within the lesbian community. Dominant submissive was one. So a big theme, the submissive addressing dressing up sort of Israel girls and the dominant Butch lesbians dressing like Workman living tough in other words.

So that’s a, that’s a lesbian trope that goes way back in time. And then this is a much more recent development in the lesbian community. Around the 1980s lesbians start turning out in leather. The leather lesbian becomes a kind of standard image. And this is a convergence with what’s happening in the gay world is the convergence that’s happening in the hetero world that they all are developing more or less the same sexual style.

Speaker 1 (29m 47s): Now what about the transgender market? That’s gotten very big. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (29m 53s): Well, the transgender market is huge now and transgender is very popular or among people who are even thinking about transgendering. And why is that? Well, this is an interesting question because this seems to start in adolescence because in the schools today are on the cusp of adolescence. Lots of kids are starting to say that they feel like a male burned inside a female body, or they feel like a female worn inside a male body.

And this is becoming today almost epidemic. Now whether this corresponds to a real desire for transgendering or whether this is just a fad remains to be seen. I think a lot of this is probably a fad. Like the Hulu it’ll go away, but it’s not all going to go away because there clearly is something in the human psyche, the craves and alternative kind of sexual experience alternative in the sense that you really are a woman born inside a male body, blah, blah, blah.

And of course, this was deeply, deeply tabooed before about the 1980s. And then it starts to take off. And this is why transgender porn is such a big deal because guys and women who themselves have, might thought only vaguely about some kind of transgender experience, see some of this transgender porn and say, Hey, this is what I want. We talked earlier about expanding the sexual experience.

This is an example of what we’re talking about. You would have probably a big inclination of some kind, and then you see it kind of in concrete form in front of you on the screen. And you realize, Hey, this is what I want. It’s a transformative kind of experience that porn makes possible.

Speaker 1 (31m 52s): Sure. Like a lot of other experiences that that porn makes possible, like, like you talked about now talk about the shift away from porn valley to places like Vegas, Phoenix, other spots in the U S and all over the world. Now, obviously the condom laws in California had something to do with that. Why else?

Speaker 2 (32m 15s): I think one of the things that makes possible the migration of porn away from Chatsworth away from the valley is the development of new technology with a relatively small investment in a video camera, you can shoot production quality stuff, and you can do this anywhere in the world. You don’t have to be important valley to do this. And if you are able to mobilize a makeup artist and a wardrobe consultant, and Hey, these people are everywhere.

Makeup artists are everywhere. If you can get her a couple of auxiliary personnel on your team, you can do, you can shoot porn as easily in Romania as in Chatsworth. Sure. And you pay people a lot less. It’s cheap to shoot porn in Romania in Chatsworth, it’d be a thousand bucks, a pop for female talent. And it’s much cheaper in Europe and not to say Latin America. So the, the ease of shooting is one theme.

Another theme is that men and women like to see porn models, porn actors, that they can identify with. And if you are in Bucharest, for example, and you see a couple of bunnies from San Diego in the screen, that’s okay. That’s exciting to some extent, for sure, but it’s a lot more exciting if you know that they are from around the corner and if they’re speaking Romanian, so this huge attraction.

So we’re talking now about mobilizing these new audiences in just about every part of the world, including places that officially are very, anti-porn such as China and India

Speaker 1 (34m 5s): And Thailand,

Speaker 2 (34m 9s): Thailand, military government, moving in the direction of enlarge, enlarging, their erotic horizons. This is a sort of universal human experience, universal human phenomenon that both men and women feel the need of this kind of enlarge and it’s happening globally now. And it didn’t use to happen globally. The typical Indian male in the 1950s didn’t really think a lot about enlarging his erotic horizons, but with the internet, with the fact that communication and social media communication in general is globalizing.

The awareness of new erotic tastes is also being globalized. And I think that this is what is driving this story internationally.

Speaker 1 (34m 59s): Now, Edward and near estimation, how hard is it to find people to work in the adult space these days,

Speaker 2 (35m 6s): Every year, there’s a new crop of 18 year olds put it that way. You can’t obviously work in the industry unless you’re 18, but a whole new crop of young women turns 18 every year. And they find the idea of modeling in front of the camera, kind of glamorous makeup, the outfits you get to meet all kinds of interesting new people that you wouldn’t meet necessarily and sleepy valley Arkansas.

And so the thing, the whole thing appears very glamorous. And so there’s never a shortage of models, even though the models may end up going to New York or going to Miami or Las Vegas rather than to LA similarly, I mean, it’s never hard to find people to work behind the camera as long as the money is, right. So that’s not really an issue, but if there’s global competition now, then the money may not be right.

If you have all these, if you have this variety of offerings out there coming from Italy, coming from Peru, or coming from Miami, the monopoly that Chatsworth used to have and producing Purim R for top dollar has vanished. A very little point is now shot in Chatsworth as opposed to all of it 20 years ago. Yeah. So I don’t think that recruitment of talent is a big issue in the industry.

The issue of competitiveness competing against people from Romania is a big issue,

Speaker 1 (36m 48s): Right? Yeah. A lot shot in a Czech Republic. These days, that’s a big market as well. Now models used to be obviously people in porn in general used to be degraded and looked down upon what’s your view about now?

Speaker 2 (37m 7s): The models started to fight back. They were edited and looked down on and abused, quite frankly, physically abused. And now the industry really is very much changing. I don’t have a union. For example, there are codes of conduct that are promulgated that say, you may not be violent with the models. You may not abuse their human rights. You should let them know in advance.

What will be expected of them is anal involved or not. That’s something models really do want to know in advance. And there are formal contracts that are signed that stipulate. Exactly what is going to happen in this shoot. This is empowering for the models and it’s limiting for the directors and producers, because it means that they can’t go on and do whatever it is they really would like to do, or whether the model is given consent or not. She’ll bloody well do it. But this business about show blood I’ll do it is, is not over right

Speaker 1 (38m 11s): Now. What do you think would happen in the U S if a right wing Repub Republican Congress came in, do you think they’d bring in a lot of new anti obscenity legislation, these

Speaker 2 (38m 24s): Aboriginal obscenity legislation hasn’t changed. It’s still not legal to shoot things that are judged to be obscene by the courts, but definition of obscenity has narrowed dramatically so that we now consider community standards to be the determinant of what is obscene. And so it’s not really the Congress that would have a rule here. It’s the executive office, it’s the department of justice was suddenly start prosecuting for obscenity.

Previously would not have been considered obscene, and this could easily happen under a right wing presidency. It didn’t happen under Trump because he had no interested in this. Even though she said, we’ve got to do something about porn. He wasn’t interested in that at all. It wasn’t part of his agenda. And he himself, I don’t think he ever admitted to being a big porn consumer, but he probably was. And he had friends in the industry.

It was just inconceivable that the DOJ under Trump was going to crack down on porn. And, and they didn’t. But if we get a new right wing president, he or she might be capable of ordering the DOJ to do something about porn, to start looking at obscenity much more closely than they have been. And that would be bad news for the industry, for sure.

Speaker 1 (39m 56s): No two ways about it. Now, how did you being an academic historian get into this?

Speaker 2 (40m 6s): Well, I have always been interested in social history and that means the history of the family and so forth. The history of sexuality is part of the history of the family decades ago. I wrote a book about the history of family life that became well known in the field. And I kept going back to the subject of the family and so forth. And so it’s just, if you are interested in sort of the nitty-gritty of social life in the family, you’ll be, I’m interested in sexuality because that’s one of the things that the family does control sexuality.

And that then was what led me to write this general history of sexuality written in the flesh that came out, I think in 2005. And the book was a big success because there had never previously been a history of sexuality, but the book took things up to about 1970. And then it started to Dawn on me. After the book came out, that things in the sexual world really were changing very dramatically.

Some of the changes like the advent of a BDSM, for example, or a leather fetish as huge themes for otherwise normal people or forced sexuality males being forced to do this forced to do that, that didn’t exist before 1978. I certainly didn’t mention it in the book. And I thought, well, you know, I think maybe it was time for me to take on this. A bigger reason changes in sexuality and to write about that, but how do you study that and understand that point?

That I discovered porn, that I realize that porn is a very real and immediate reflection of changing sexual tastes in the real world because producers and directors want to produce stuff that sells that’s there about a month. And so they are very, very sensitive to changes in market tastes. And if certainly elites in the market are now saying, Hey, we’d like to see more on fetish, or we’d like to see some more stuff on forced sexuality.

They’re going to start producing it, but in phase two, but once they start coring out a BDSM or a cross-dressing cross-dressing or whatever, a lot of people out there in the real world are going to be exposed to these states for the first time. Yes. And they are going to respond very positively because Hey, it never even occurred to me that a male cross-dressing might be possible. Look at that guy. He’s wearing stockings in high heels, and he’s got on a corset that could be kind of fun.

There are a lot of men will find that kind of fun. There are a lot of prostitutes, for example, whoever in their closets, wigs and high Eagles in large sizes hoes that their male clients can put on. And then you prostitute, I hate the term prostitute and then the escort or the provider, as we say today, and then the provider does their makeup for them. And then they go out and have a cup of coffee at a cafe. And for him, that’s the highlight of the sexual experience.

Sitting there looking like a woman with a, your dominant supervisor in front of you. And, and that’s it. They don’t have sex. There’s no penetration. The guy doesn’t get off. That was the core of the experience. The crushed, these are tastes that are very much new, nothing like this happened before 1970. And it’s been a very exciting experience for many men in particular, do examples that I’ve been using.

I sort of nailed examples, but there are female examples, for example, in the real world, about a third of all, women have a real interest in bisexuality. And real-world the percentage of men with an interest in bisexuality is much smaller. Yes. So that means that you have this big pool of women with this, these latent interest in bisexuality who will respond to female produced videos featuring bisexual scenes.

Yes, it’s my girlfriend’s films in Montreal. For example, going directly after that market, trying to get these latent bisexual women of whom there are an enormous number. So these are various ways in which the market has exploded.

Speaker 1 (44m 49s): Well, Edward, it’s been very, very interesting to go through the history of this business with you. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon. Likewise,

Speaker 2 (45m 4s): Bruce lovely talking

Speaker 1 (45m 5s): With you. It’s a pleasure. My broker tip today is part seven. I’m how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement and escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owners participation will be after the sale, you’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things.

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Next week we’ll talk about how to sell a website and next week we’ll be talking to Filip of Quantox Technology. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Edward Shorter. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

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Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adults say broker talk is adult industry writer, Ralph Greco for his second appearance on our podcast. Ralph, thanks for being with us again today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (3m 3s): Thanks for having me again. It’s wonderful beer. It

Speaker 1 (3m 5s): Is great to have you again. Now. Ralph Greco Jr. Is a professional writer of blogs, columns, reviews, interviews, fiction, poetry songs, SEO copy. I’m going to run out of breath here. And one act plays for both mainstream and adult clients. Ralph Short fiction, poetry and essays have been published in eight countries in major market magazines and small press in various anthologies and single author. Short story collections. Ralph’s one act plays have been published in a complete collection as well as produced across the U S is self pen self-produced salicious songs and dirty words.

Theaters show love that name has been performed off Broadway in New York city. In fact, it was so off Broadway. The theaters were almost in Jersey. Ralph was also an ASCAP licensed songwriter and recording artists. And with fellow writer am Christian teaches classes across the U S at kink convictions conventions, not convection ovens. Now Ralph’s new music site can be found at Ralph Greco, music.com and his podcast is titled licking non vanilla.

Now, Ralph I’m sure during the quarantine people just assume your clients would be needing more content and copy than they ever have before. Have you found that to be the case?

Speaker 2 (4m 28s): I don’t know. I mean, both types of clients mainstream and adults seem to, it seems to be split. You know, some people certainly wanted to up their, their content. Then they came out of the woodwork to do so. And that’s on both sides of the coin, but, and others, others, not a lot. Some, a lot of people certainly initially I would say in the first six months or so circle the wagons, so to speak and said, you know, we don’t, we don’t even know what’s going to be happening here.

So we were not sure. So I felt maybe it’s loosening up a little bit now, but I found both things happening, you know, soliciting some new clients that were jumping on board immediately. And the others said, no, I have to take a, take a step back because we don’t really know what’s going to happen. Wow.

Speaker 1 (5m 15s): Okay. Yeah. Now when it, when it comes to your fiction writing, are you incorporating the pandemic Intuit or just pretty much ignoring it?

Speaker 2 (5m 25s): You know, it’s a, that’s a tough one. That’s, I’m having a hard time, there’s a series or a couple of science fiction pieces that I’ve been writing and I’ve been trying to, and they take place with you now or in the near future. And I’m having a hard time with how to incorporate that. If I want to incorporate it in a role, in some instances, I mean, some essays that I’m writing these days, if, if they, if they have a little bit of a political bent to them or, or, or cultural bent with, they usually do, or the blogs, it’s, it’s impossible to ignore what’s happening right now in those instances.

But I don’t know. I don’t know how I feel about the pandemic, querying the fiction at this point. I’d rather ignore it because it’s a lot of people

Speaker 1 (6m 11s): Wouldn’t we all

Speaker 2 (6m 14s): Right. There’s a lot of pieces that, that I, that I have that I’m not finished with yet. And it just doesn’t fit in there. So I’m going to be, I don’t know. It’s just so you can’t, like you just said, you can’t ignore it, but at the same time, I like to feel that I could, I could create worlds that not even, you know, not even worlds other than this, our own, but worlds where we’re this kind of a hyper reality where maybe certain things just don’t don’t exist at the moment. That’s all. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (6m 42s): Yeah. Yes. Sometimes, sometimes fiction is, is a lot nicer than reality.

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): That’s for sure. Certainly. Now,

Speaker 1 (6m 51s): Are there any trends in content that you see people needing and wanting more of recently because of the pandemic?

Speaker 2 (6m 59s): That’s a good question. I don’t know. I don’t know if anything’s actually changed other than we, you know, before we, even, you and I have talked about this off the air and, and on the air, of course, too, that the, that there there’s a niche quality to what we do in the, in the adult world. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s more ma there are certainly more vanilla mainstream stuff and then very niche stuff. If I think if I see anything that’s been coming across recently, and this may or may not be because people are, have more time to sit down and really concentrate on what they’re, what they want and what they’re looking for, and maybe go deeper into the rabbit hole of that kind of thing thing.

I think that it seems in just in my little corner of the world, that niche content seems to be on the rise a little bit more than, than just regular, you know, good old vanilla. Okay. So I would say, but then again, that could just be a faded complete in my world because it’s kind of the stuff I gravitate towards. So I may be looking for that and not even realizing that, that I make that happen anyway. Funny how that works. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly, certainly. Okay.

Speaker 1 (8m 10s): So lately you’ve managed to place a good amount of nonfiction for outlets like killing kittens and the laundry addict that are not only run by women, but are buying content that features, or is centered around a feminine perspective. And how does a hetero guy, like you write about such things?

Speaker 2 (8m 30s): Well, you know, it’s because I’m so evolved. That’s what it felt like.

Speaker 1 (8m 37s): I like

Speaker 2 (8m 38s): It. I’m so woke. I want to go back to sleep. That’s a little, you know, I don’t know. I think it’s the same as it’s the same as anybody writing anything from possibly a perspective you don’t specifically have. Right. But I think we will have, as we all share a certain sensibility of what we want and need and desire and, and, you know, you know, like I remember Bradbury saying that, you know, you know, so no way comparing myself, but Bradbury said, well, you know, that whole Axiom about, you know, right.

What, you know, right. And

Speaker 1 (9m 14s): Absolutely

Speaker 2 (9m 16s): He, but he had never been to Mars, but you know, one of his celebrated works is the Martian Chronicles. And he just put the idea of loss and prejudice and, and, and desire and, and, and, you know, memory and, and all that kind of stuff in, into those characters and into those stories that happened at a place or more. So I guess what I’m saying is we all, although I’m not, not hetero woman led, I don’t play one on television,

Speaker 1 (9m 47s): Nor did, nor did you stay at a holiday Inn express last night,

Speaker 2 (9m 51s): Right. Exactly. I think that when it comes down, it was that you just, you kind of the things I don’t know, and I don’t even try to stretch and make believe. I do know. I wouldn’t even assume that, you know, but I think, I think there are shared experiences that we will have and just you, right. Kind of what, you know, what to that point. And then when you don’t know you either don’t right. Or you admit, you don’t know in, in, in kind of a, as, as entertaining a way as possible.

And those, those places that you mentioned seem to like this stuff. So I, I’m very, very, I haven’t written, as we’re speaking now, I haven’t written it. I’m writing the article from laundry addict. The other night I started with killing, killing kittens and the editor there is absolutely fantastic. I’m like, I can’t, I was talking to somebody the other day about having a great editor means it means the world. And she’s wonderful.

And I actually did ask her a question. Do you have a day about perspective? Cause I just want to make sure it was tweaking it correctly. And she claims it was due under five. So I guess I’m on the right track. But you know, if it ain’t broke, it ain’t woke it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it, you know, and don’t wake it up. So that’s kinda where I’m coming from. I think so along a long answer to your question, sorry.

Speaker 1 (11m 14s): We, as long as you want, we don’t have it. We don’t have a time limit here. Now, despite this, you still find, do you still find some female editors are those identifying as female, female? Can’t forget about that. Not wanting to publish stuff from male writers during the me too era,

Speaker 2 (11m 32s): You know, that it’s such a loaded idea in question. Right. Because even before that whole thing, I would like to think I just walked around and was respectful to everybody. You know? So that was, that was always my perspective. I didn’t think too much about, I just, just was always just th you know, just figured I one, I, people, the way I want to be treated, right. That was kind of like golden rule. I figured that that kind of works. So that said, I don’t know if people are more aware.

I, I have certainly felt a bit of that. I’ve certainly felt a bit of caution. I should say. I felt it in my everyday life. And I felt it in my professional life kind of, I don’t know if you feel it, but, and I know that people don’t like to talk about that because they think sometimes they think that’s, that’s a negative to talk about that. But it’s the reality of the situation.

Speaker 1 (12m 29s): Well, you know, the only, the only time on it, this industry, I felt it as when I, there was a women and adult meeting at one of their shows and I walked in and said, Hey, what’s going on here? And he basically told me to get the fuck out anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (12m 42s): Yeah, you don’t, you know, these things always take on a wide pendulum swing. Right, right. Whatever, there’s any kind of change or revolution, or there’s always a wide pendulum swing. And there’s always, and what happens with that, I usually is that if you, if you, if you just show up, if you have a question or you would like, would you just set or you walk into a situation and you just kind of, whatever happens to be, there’s always a little bit of a blow back, you know, Michael, my whole thing about any of this, I don’t care what it is is I think we should always be able to ask the question, whatever that question may be and not be, not be instantly labeled one thing or another, because we ask the question, right.

People beyond that, you know, I’m sure that there are, we were talking about circling the wagons before. I’m sure there are certain places that for whatever reason are circling the wagons and becoming more inclusive, why they think they are becoming more exclusive. You know, I think they’re becoming more inclusive because of, you know, some sort of bristling against, against something. So I just try to be with, with the approach. We were talking about this before with the, with the approach to just people in general, in business in general.

And I don’t care what business it is. I just try to be as open as possible and say, this is what I do. And this is who I am. And if you don’t like either of those things, that’s okay. We don’t have to work together. It doesn’t mean you’re right or wrong. It’s just, that’s, that’s fine. But I’ve been very, very lucky so far with our just fortunate. So far to everybody I’ve come across, doesn’t matter gender. What they, what it is. Everybody seems to be open and, you know, giving me, give me a chance as much as they give them a chance. That’s all you can ask for. Right.

Speaker 1 (14m 27s): And if, and if you knew the joker than I am, I, I walked into that meeting on purpose, knowing I was going to get thrown out of my hair. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (14m 36s): I’m like you, I, I lead with the, with the, with the, with the rye, you know,

Speaker 1 (14m 43s): It’s a serious, don’t be too serious. I mean, life is too serious already.

Speaker 2 (14m 47s): Yeah. And I’m taking the piss out of myself first before, take it out to anybody I’m first and foremost, you know, self deprecating. And I always, I always like to walk into a situation and cut it down to size quickly. So everybody could just take a breath, you know, but, and I think that’s the performer side of me, you know, like I get up on stage and I have to be able to deliver. So sometimes you have to put an audience and, but, but I, yeah, I, I agree with you. I wish everybody would just take a step back a little bit and take a breath and realize, walk, just try to get through this man.

Speaker 1 (15m 23s): Oh, I hate that. Hate that the truth, by the way, you’re a writer. You spend a lot of your life writing. How much of your life do you spend reading

Speaker 2 (15m 34s): Almost an equal amount. If not more. When, when Chris and I do the writing class, you were talking about the class that we teach, we teach a lot of writing classes at the conventions and which are, which are by far our favorite classes to teach. And yeah. And the best thing about that is usually what we do is we, we, we came to the conclusion of best thing to do was to have a little bit of an outline, but just start the classes with anybody, have a question. And then usually a, just closed some questions. But anyway, right, the, the number one thing I get asked all the time is how do, how do, how do I do this?

How do I write, you know, how do I start? How do I do this? And I always say, you know, I hate to say this, but this is the only way. The only thing I can tell you, I have two pieces of advice. One is, well, you got to start writing. That’s a liquid, do it. Right. And then the second piece of advice I would say is you should, you should be reading a hell of a lot. You know, you should be marinating in, in great writers and even bad writers and, and everything. You get your hands on comics and recipes and novels. I don’t care what it is. Right. So I, you just said, how much do I read?

Say, that’s kind of all I do. It’s what reading is really, really infected and in fused, and probably saved my life more than anything else. I know it’s really, really important. And I’ve been doing, I’ve been reading since my mom’s a big reader. So like she said, when I was a little kid, I was like sitting in the room with her and have a book propped up in front of me. I couldn’t read, but I was imitating her reading. And then I became a reader, but I’ve always been a very, quite a voracious,

Speaker 1 (17m 11s): You know, I was never much of a reader, but as, but starting a few years ago, I would say probably when Trump got into office, because there was so much political stuff I wanted to read and, and all of it was just so incredibly outrageous. I started download books onto my Kimball app on my iPad and having stopped. And now I read every night pretty much. And so, yeah, it’s, I love it. I absolutely love it, but it’s, it’s amazing that it took me to almost age 60 to really start and now reading all kinds of stuff, including the stuff that I enjoy the most, like, you know, books about sports and books about jazz, but, you know, I, which are the things or some of my passions, but I just read all kinds of stuff now.

And it’s just, it’s just really cool.

Speaker 2 (18m 3s): Yeah. Yeah. It opens your life to, to, in a way that I don’t know if any, I don’t know if any other art form can do that for you because you know, you, you know, visual, you know, the visual and movies are extremely important to me in music, of course, but sure. But there’s something about reading because you, you have to form what you’re reading. You have to form your own pictures of that. And I think that that stretch your imagination and vocabulary to a work place. That’s just, just knows don’t bounce.

You know,

Speaker 1 (18m 34s): It’s kinda like, it’s kind of like sports on radio versus sports on television. You know, I used to, I used to do, as I mentioned to you, I used to do a sports play by play when I was in my younger years. And didn’t really make it on any kind of a big level, but I enjoyed painting that picture for people because they couldn’t see the field. They couldn’t see what the players were doing, but I could, but I, what you have to do in that instance, as you have to paint a picture,

Speaker 2 (19m 6s): Well, it’s funny you say that because what you were just saying that it reminded me. I remember walking to the den and my dad watching, like, you know, we were talking about before, off the air, we’re talking about work. Cause we’re, I’m on the east coast of the United States, big, giant beach, giant fans, you know, Mets fans. And I remember my dad watching giant games on television with the, with the sound off and listening to the radio while watching the game, because he was getting much more information from the radio than he was from the announcements on television, on television.

You’re looking at it. And I, and I was, at the first times I saw that. I said, what do you do it? You know, he explained it to me. He said, you know, would you listen to the radio? They’re giving you a lot more of the information because they, they, they have to give you more information. That’s correct. He’s correct. The marriage of the two to see that working, you know, said that that makes a lot of sense because I saw that actually happened in my life, you know, right in front of me.

Speaker 1 (20m 3s): So we touched on this a bit the last time, but as opposed to how it seemed to be a few years ago when adult companies were still producing DVDs, we were seeing each other at shows and conventions were full of talent. And fans has, it seemed to you in the past few years that our business has gotten smaller.

Speaker 2 (20m 22s): Yeah. I was saying some ways, you know, as far as people are doing the one thing that, you know, used to be like, you would just say, like we were all over the place, you know, would go to a convention or we, you know, everybody was kind of bopping around and do a lot of stuff. It seems like people are focusing on the thing they do. It’s trying to do that well and do it and get it out there as much as possible. But it seems to be, you you’d get a guy that was w w had a magazine, but he’s also involved in the photography.

And he was also doing this nowadays. It seems to be like, okay, I, you know, although there are people, you, you actually, we have, we have shared mutual festivals on your show. And I know for a fact she does a lot of different things, but yes, but it seems to be that people are working tightly on their brand, wherever that, whatever that encompasses. And then they, so I don’t know if they’re, if they’re putting themselves out there that much, although I know the exotica conventions are happening in the United States and presently, so I know that convention is starting.

And I know I got some press on Tom con the other day, so I know those, those are happy. So people are out there again, but maybe they’re just, you know, but they’re going out there with a very singular vision, I think at this point of what?

Speaker 1 (21m 45s): Sure. Yeah. And in the, on the B2B side, which I’m more in tune with, you know, shows like T E S are starting up again. And yeah. If, if they, if it wasn’t for this, this fucking quarantine in Thailand, which I happen to be right in the middle of right now, as I mentioned to you coming back from America, I would be in Prague because I haven’t missed it in many years, but unfortunately this September, it’s not going to happen. Well, it didn’t happen last September, obviously either.

So I’m hoping in 2022, everything will be as back to normal as possible. But anyway, talk about a fucked up country. I live in my God. Anyway,

Speaker 2 (22m 28s): We spoke you, you were, things were okay there. Right.

Speaker 1 (22m 31s): We’re wonderful. The first year was amazing. And now they’re losing the government got lazy and they started giving into business interests. Oh yeah. And I’m sure plenty of cash has changed hands, which that probably includes the money that it’s costing for two fully quarantined people to be sitting in a 15 day quarantine. I’m sorry. Two full two fully vaccinated people to be sitting in a 15 day quarantine. Nice.

<inaudible> it’s all about money anyway. Don’t get me started. Okay. So it wasn’t until your podcast looking non vanilla, that you began to really deal with social media. So what have you found out from that experience? Good and bad?

Speaker 2 (23m 17s): Well, it reiterated the one thought in my mind, which was that it’s, it can be a holy time suck, you know, an incredible, incredible, you know, mind candy that you can just, you can just get, get thrown into and, you know, talk about talking about Alice down the rabbit hole, you know, you could just go for it. It’s, you know, it’s like when I start searching, you know, Emerson, Lincoln Palmer, YouTube videos, I’ll be on YouTube forever know. So It’s the same thing.

So I, you know, so I never dealt with it before. Well, so what happened was when we started looking at vanilla, my producer said, well, we got to get on some sort of social media. And I said, well, I’m not going to Facebook. I just can’t become part of that Cole. I have no desire for it. So, so he said, well, you know, we can get it to Twitter. I said, well, right. So we got into Twitter and, you know, I’ll, I’ll make a, I’ll, I’ll put up a blog or, or, you know, one of the, whatever the show was on that week. And, and, and then I started, you know, seeking contacts through there and I made some contacts through them, which was good.

So that’s the most I do really. I don’t get into like the, let me show you what I had for breakfast and put it up on Twitter, you know, like that stuff. But, but I, it is, it is amazing to me. There’s other places too, that you and I both actually know of and are on that. I, I see like people posting stuff that has nothing to do with the business or whatever.

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): Oh, come on. Let’s just say it. Are you talking about miss? Oh God, it’s my pet peeve. That’s my pet peeve over there. And I’ve, I’ve voiced it many times and it’s like, dude, if I want to, if I, if I want to get this information, I’ll get it from apple news.

Speaker 2 (25m 4s): Well, like, you know, the minutia and I got in trouble on there a couple of times, because I threw out some, what I thought were right. Silly comments. And I got in trouble and really, they were like, yeah, how can you say that here? And I’m like I said, well, first of all, I don’t even know what we’re talking about. Should we be talking about the business? Like,

Speaker 1 (25m 23s): That’s kind of what we’re talking about.

Speaker 2 (25m 26s): And, and I, and then, and then, so, so it got off on a tangent and I was like, dude, do any of us really have time or care to be doing this about this? You know, like, first of all, if you want to do that, going to go on Twitter or whatever you want to do, but I don’t even want to do that.

Speaker 1 (25m 40s): Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (25m 42s): So, so, so the answer to your question is the good and the bad, the bad is that it is what I thought it was. It’s just, you know, depository or a suppository. Abby, we don’t look at it for just silliness in, you know, people, people feeling you may be looking for affirmation. And then it’s also, it is a good way for me to quickly contact people if I want to, or people reaching out, but I’m not monitoring it every day and say, oh, I have, you know, 300 pop followers. You know, it’s just that, that’s just, that’s just, doesn’t equate in my life.

Is anything of value. Yeah. I don’t, and I don’t want to sound like a curmudgeon cause you know, I get to this age, you get the egg a little bit. <inaudible> go get you, get you, get your bikes off my lawn kind of thing. But now that I’ve come to the party late, I realized I haven’t been missing much of a party.

Speaker 1 (26m 33s): No, you really haven’t. And I agree. It’s kind of a generational thing. Although Facebook tends to be more our generation, but I did that, that game for a while and on a personal level. And I finally just canceled my account. I got blocked. I got blocked so many times for putting things that were totally innocent on there. Yeah. We’re, we’re, we’re Facebook gives you a timeout. And when they gave me a 60 day time out, I finally said, you know what?

I’m done. I’m just done.

Speaker 2 (27m 7s): And

Speaker 1 (27m 9s): I canceled, I just canceled it. I just canceled the account. And I got to say, I don’t miss it. The people that, that, that care about me and, and I care about will find me on my, on my business page. I would do have a business Facebook page. I use it to promo the podcast and some listings and things like that. And Twitter and LinkedIn. But I don’t know. I don’t go overboard either. I just can’t see it. And you know, it used to be such a time suck, man. I used to, every time when I picked up my phone, I went to Facebook to see what people were saying or saying about me or saying about Trump.

And then it gets to the point where you’re like, oh fuck man, this is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (27m 49s): Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s akin to, I say this to my buddy all the time. There was a, there was a point I was trying to catch the Marvel movies. Cause I, I’m not a comic geek, but I liked comics and it was falling the movies. And I was like, oh, this is cool. And then it got to a point like there was, you know, seven or 800 of them out there or whatever. And they were in order and you have yet to see the way the winter soldier before you saw this, you know, all this bullshit. And I said to my buddy, like in an end game, came out, everybody was raving about it. And I said, you know what? I don’t, I don’t, I don’t care. I just don’t care anymore. Like, it’s just too much of like me trying to like, worry about what order I saw the movies in.

And like, I don’t remember. I’m like, I just, it’s just not, I’m just not interested. I want to live my life. You know, I want to like, I mean, I just want to, and, and I love all that stuff. I love, I love all that popcorn movies. And I dig, you know, I like watching Gail, Gail gal got do anything, but it got to a point where she was like, whoa, why am I chasing all this?

Speaker 1 (28m 50s): Yeah. When it starts to dominate your life, that’s when you realize that it’s too much. And I think probably one of the best things that apple put on their phones is screen time. And it’s, it’s a, you get a notice every Sunday, which how much time you spent on your phone that week. And I’ll tell you what people

Speaker 2 (29m 12s): Are paying attention.

Speaker 1 (29m 13s): I do. And I’ll tell you it’s pretty eyeopening. I mean, it’s bad enough that mine was three hours plus. Okay. I’ll admit it. But at the same time, I bet it used to be more like eight or six or whatever it with Facebook was

Speaker 2 (29m 27s): That you, you cheated back a bit.

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): Oh God, like 50%. Trust me. Although now I’m putting a lot of that time into, into sports now, which, which I love, you know, and to seeing like, right, like as we, as we do this interview and it’s going to run and it’s going to run in a couple months, but as we do this interview and we’re on the baseball trade deadline, we’ll being a big San Francisco giants fan. We gotta, we gotta get which giants correct here. Yeah. I’m like, man, I want to see who, who gets traded and who we get and who we give up. So anyway, that’s but that’s, so devices are good for that.

Speaker 2 (30m 2s): So apple did that with the thing, is that, so you use apple less. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 8s): Pretty much. It’s called screen time. Absolutely. Well, yeah, That is a very confident company, you know, and they should be confident. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (30m 19s): I think about that model, there’s a tool to regulate how much you’re using their product.

Speaker 1 (30m 29s): It was for personal it’s for it’s for personal wellbeing. And I think it’s wonderful. I really do. I really do

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): Wild isn’t it? So they’re looking to make money

Speaker 1 (30m 41s): And they do. Yep. So as we do, you’re obviously not an apple user. So as we discussed last, as we discussed, last time you got into the business by writing scripts for the 800 and 900 phone sex lines back in the day. Wow. Yeah. So surely things have progressed in script writing over the years, just a little bit, but do you find opportunities to write scripts much anymore?

And if not, why do you think that might be?

Speaker 2 (31m 13s): I don’t. And I think the reason is that most what we were saying before about how the business has changed a bit people where people are playing it close to the vest. So I think if you have a performer, a soul, you know, I’m a lady performer, who’s doing her own content and there’s some great women out there doing some great content, you know, had their own little studios and putting the clips up for sale and fans and friends with a few, but fans of more. And I would say a lot of them are doing it themselves.

They’re putting a script, they’re putting a crew together, a small crew and they’re putting the scripts together themselves. They know how to do it and that’s what’s happening. So I don’t, I don’t think people are occasionally I’ll get, I’ll get some sort of a, the guidelines or somebody looking for a script and I’ll write them. And then I don’t get a hit back. And it’s not pretty much just be me as well, but I tend to think that people start that and then they realize, you know what? I don’t need to get a writer in here. I can just do this. Sure.

Speaker 1 (32m 13s): Well, yeah, the clip, the clip and fan sites are certainly dominating the industry now without a doubt.

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): Yeah. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t know. What’s the last time you’ve seen a movie that’s really been more than 23 minutes. If that, you know, I think that’s what, that’s the biggest, the longest things I’ve seen now, you know, if it’s,

Speaker 1 (32m 32s): There’s some producers that still put a story into their stuff, and those are the people that if you want script work, those are the people you should be working.

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): Right. That are the people I seek out. But again, you know, those people, you know, everybody, everybody, if you get to that point at this point, you probably have a good crew around you. And you’re the go-to people. I’m always, Hey, look, I’m looking. So if anybody wants to contact me, I’m always looking where you go.

Speaker 1 (32m 60s): Well, okay. So what does the scene look like at the kink convection conventions you teach yet? Now they’re starting up again. Obviously we talked about that. Are they populated? And do you think they’re going to stand the test of time?

Speaker 2 (33m 15s): Well, I can only, I just didn’t do it. I just did a piece for kinky magazine. K I N anyway, a shout out and what, and I had to interview some people about that very subject. And it seems like there is a return there’s, there’s a group I know in St. Louis that, that I know pretty well. And I, I, Chris and I have taught there quite a bit and they, they seem to be going full, full steam ahead with at least two events a year back to their, to two event a year schedule.

So, and like I said, exotic is open again, exotic that does not have any kind of COVID restriction that I know of. I know the other, the convention, the king convention, you have to be, you have to be vaccinated. So because, you know, in those instances, of course, people are getting very close together. You know, they’re going to, you know, reach out and beat someone basically. And so, So they, those guys are starting up again.

I haven’t seen much call for there’s a couple of other conventions I know of Don, like we were just saying is happening. Right. So the other ones, I don’t know, but, but it seems the ones that are, have done enough research and have enough together that they know how they want to move forward, you know, and they are moving forward. Okay,

Speaker 1 (34m 45s): Good. That’s good. Now in doing adult writing, have you ever had those moments when you feel, you, you know, just want to write about vanilla sex or just maybe get out of the business altogether?

Speaker 2 (34m 59s): I don’t know if you know, there’s not a get out. There was never a moment where it was get out, but they’re here. There are those moments where I’m like, I have to step back from this for a week because my, my perspective is getting colored all by, you know, robots, spanking stories. And after a while, it’s just, you know, so that’s why I have multiple projects open at once. And I say open, I mean, on my desktop that I go to. So I’m constantly flipping back and forth.

So I’m running an article about chassis, which I’m doing right now, writing chassis, but I’m also doing work for a, a local company that does the air duct cleaning in your house. So I’m going back and forth, you know? And so I’m constantly keeping that fire going so that those fires going. So I don’t have to, I don’t get bored by either one, but there are times the only thing I seem to have to take a break from is certainly the erotica writing. Cause that that’s, that really is, is very intense. As far as, you know, the things you’re talking about, things you’re writing about and conjuring you, you, I have to take a step back from that on many occasions, you know, just to give myself a little bit of a break,

Speaker 1 (36m 10s): That’s all understood. Now, now, now the last time we spoke, we also touched on your music career. When we talked before the site was fairly new, maybe you can tell us more and give us a little bit of an update.

Speaker 2 (36m 24s): Ah, nothing to update at the moment. What I’m trying to do now is because I can’t physically go to the studio, right. So I’m gonna do as much as I can. I’m working on. And it’s pretty easy because easy is a relative term, but I have a, I have a, because that way technology is such that you, you know, digital recorders, you can hold in your hand, you know? So I

Speaker 1 (36m 51s): Guess it’s called a mobile phone.

Speaker 2 (36m 53s): Yeah, well, there’s, there’s, there’s a zoom recorder. That’s a professional recorder that I can get great guitar and vocal sales. And then I will throw that out to my engineer, producer co-producer and engineer, and you know, via email. Right. And there are, luckily the projects that I’m working, he has a couple of projects, a couple of songs for me that he’s working on now, but, and they, they’re more, they have a lot more instrumentation, but the things that I want to work on immediately are four projects in there.

They’re all just acoustic guitar. And those are just a guitar. So that’s four different products. So it’s not a lot, there’s not a lot of production involved. So I can do, I guess what I’m saying is I can do most of that recording myself. I just have, I just have to do it.

Speaker 1 (37m 45s): How many, how many hours in the day, right. So what are your future plans for your podcast? Looking non vanilla.

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): We’re just trying to increase the reach and a listenership and get on, you know, bigger and better. And that that’s a relative term as you well know. Yes. You know, we’ve had some, we’ve had some great we’ve of course the board, if it’s a great people, but just because someone has a big following doesn’t mean they’re going to be a great guest as you well know. Right. And just because someone has a great following doesn’t mean that their followers are gonna follow you.

So it’s really crafting, you know, I don’t know how you find it, but for me, for Chris and I, it’s certainly a crapshoot on feeling out. You want to have all our publicist touch you and you, you bandy about the, the guests are not, you know, so you know how it is very, very hard to do.

Speaker 1 (38m 47s): I do. I’m recruiting, I’m recruiting guests, every damn I’m putting feelers out every day. I see a news story and I go, God, that person would be a great gas.

Speaker 2 (38m 55s): Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes they don’t, they don’t end up being a great guest for it’s all good. And I put the blame on myself. I’m like, why didn’t I ask him the right questions and have the, I didn’t have the right up to the right thing up to speed or whatever it is. But there are times when I’m like, well, they’re just, they’re just not great communicators and that that’s not, everybody is not everybody’s

Speaker 1 (39m 15s): And everybody can talk. Not everybody can talk. Well, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (39m 20s): It’s scintillating as you and I, you know,

Speaker 1 (39m 24s): Hey, we’re talkers buddy. We’re talkers. And they tell an Italian and a Jew who would figure, okay. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (39m 33s): Yeah. What’d they say, what’s it the joke about that same corporation. Different division. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (39m 43s): So, and there’s, and there’s, I’m sure in New York, there’s a finer line from my experience anyway. So what writing projects are you currently working on and what do you see coming in the near future?

Speaker 2 (39m 58s): Okay. Well, I have a memoir that I hopefully get done and published. I have a publisher name. Cool. Yeah, but that would have to be anonymous because it’s a little, there’s a little dirty and it’s a little, you know, I can’t

Speaker 1 (40m 11s): Wait. Do I get a copy?

Speaker 2 (40m 14s): Sure. That’s why they don’t want to just send them out the, the music projects. And then I have a view, a book about music that I’ve been working on for a long time. And then, you know, all the other, you know, there’s a couple of things in the wings, but that’s the problem that I have, you know, whatever it is, BLT or EDT or ELP or EDD L ADB, I don’t have that, but I feel like I do cause I bounce around for so many things so much.

Speaker 1 (40m 47s): Yeah. You definitely have BLT for lunch, right.

Speaker 2 (40m 50s): PTO or ELP ELL, but that, that site bounce around so much. So that’s the whole thing. So that’s what I’m hoping to get to within the next couple, you know, just keep going until the next, till the next couple of months here, you know, and then whatever else comes in, any projects come in, you know, I’m certainly open to everything, you know, basically.

Speaker 1 (41m 9s): Absolutely. Well, Hey Ralph, once again, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broker talk and I hope we’ll be able to do round three in the not too distant future. My broker tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit. If you’re going to be making payments, this has done about half the time.

These days, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow. Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. They’re a firm out of Washington DC. And know they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them, trust them. And I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a custom escrow, or if it’s a simple one that can be set up on their website, then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed.

It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal, closing your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this. And it’s on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as they’re all the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition, or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.

This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point you’re pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about that more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to professor and author Edward Shorter. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Ralph Grecco. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

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