Adult Site Broker Talk

At Adult Site Broker we broker websites and companies for the adult space. In this podcast we speak to the movers and shakers of the adult industry, in all aspects of the business. And we tell you how to buy or sell a website or company for maximum profit and with a minimum of trouble.

  Upcoming Guests

2/1      Chris – Saucytime
2/8      Performer Christina Castilla 
2/15    Julie – Primetime Cams
2/22    Tristan and Rutger of WeCamGirls


Listen to Adult Site Broker Talk

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Brian Sloan of Auto Blow. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult site broker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a review site network, which has been growing at a good rate for years. It features one of the largest industry directories in the world. It has over 900 pages and has been gaining great traction with Google, with lots of room to grow, it already gets a huge amount of organic traffic more than other review directories with more content, it’s ranking well for their main keywords.

The network is making 50,000 in profit most months with lots of room to grow the best month. The network made over $68,000 in profit. Profit for the year of 2022 was 550,000. The network has some of the best riders in the industry. There are also on-call developers and a full-time virtual assistant who knows every function of the site. The owner would be willing to give the new owner an outline of what could be done to further expand the business in the future.

Only 2.12 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Brian Sloan, the inventor of the Auto Blow. Brian, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (2m 44s): Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 45s): It’s a pleasure. Now six 20 Inventor Brian Sloan graduated from law school in 2005, but he decided he had a brighter future in the field of masturbation devices than he did, helping people with their legal problems. He holds seven US patents in the field of sex, robotics, and related technology with several more pending. Sloan has been profiled in Playboy Magazine, featured in media online and on TV globally. He’s working towards a future where oral sex performed on a man by a human is indistinguishable from an experience generated by his auto blow machine.

The company makes the auto blow AI Plus and the Auto Blow Two plus xt. They sell the devices directly to men from auto blow.com and to stores and chains in the us. They also have distributors in Canada, the EU in Australia. The majority of adult shops globally carry their two devices. So Brian, tell me a little bit more about your background.

Speaker 2 (3m 44s): Yeah, basically I was headed toward a kind of dead end life, I would say, as a lawyer when, when I was in law school, I discovered antique auctions in South Central Pennsylvania and I started going to auctions just for fun with a friend there. I bought something, I sold it on eBay, made like a hundred bucks and I thought, oh, there must be so much more stuff to sell and it doesn’t require me sitting somewhere at a desk and you know, kind of suffering.

So yeah, it started, it started with that and then just sort of, yeah, long, long story short, I, it just led me to the, to the Sex Toys universe and I saw there was a lot of work to be done there.

Speaker 1 (4m 28s): Absolutely. So you went to law school, but you didn’t pursue a career in law. What did you do after you finished school?

Speaker 2 (4m 36s): Yeah, so after law school I moved to Chicago and I, I bought things from auctions full-time and sold the money eBay. Okay. I did that for a couple years, but during that time period, two important things happened. One was that I discovered the, the universe of latex fetish wear as one of the categories that lacked sellers on eBay. And so I started to learn about the category and I started to found a factory that, that made interesting designs and I started selling latex fetish wear on eBay.

And at the same time I was going to China buying antiques there, bringing them back and selling them in the us. And after I made a bunch of those trips, I just started meeting people in Beijing and I thought, you know, it’d be great to live in Beijing. And yeah, after five, a couple week trips there, over that period I just decided May, my future might be in China. And I just moved there to sort of figure out the next steps.

Speaker 1 (5m 36s): Okay. So what happened after that?

Speaker 2 (5m 39s): So then I started first making a, a direct-to-consumer brand of my fetish wear. I took it off of eBay and directly onto my own website. And then I sort of exhausted the universe, the fetish wear universe. It’s, it’s big, but it’s also small, and I wanted a more scalable kind of product. So yeah, I became interested in, in, in businesses that have kind of a moral fence around them.

And once I dug into the sex toys universe, I found wow, there was a huge opportunity to make actually good devices for people. And the only reason that there weren’t more people doing it was because they were afraid of what people would think. So I just sort of dug in and I, I, you know, I was there for, for 10 years and basically I started with one device, one kind of automatic stroker I just bought from a factory and rebranded. And I moved from there to now we’ve like invented our, probably our, our eighth version of our auto blow device in, in, in 13 years.

So just sort of realize that’s what men, men wanted a an automatic masturbation experience and no one was delivering them one seriously. They were delivering them true novelties, you know, like kind of carbon, like

Speaker 1 (6m 56s): Flashlight, like fleshlight and things like

Speaker 2 (6m 58s): That. I mean, no, I, I think flashlight it, they make a, when I say novelty, I mean like a thing you get and it just breaks, you know, that was at the time in 2008 the quality of the automatic device. No, Fleshlight makes a high quality device. They make like an actual, they, it’s, you know, for long time they didn’t make an electronic device, but no, I think they’re known for making a quality device. But they were one of the few people in the universe of males sex toys who took quality seriously. Right. So, I mean, that was inspirational to me. And, and I said, well, if they can make a quality device that’s a handheld, how about I make a quality device that’s, that’s automatic.

And there wasn’t one at the time that when we developed Auto Blow two back in 2014, it was the only, we were the only people who took it seriously. You know, other people just created a like, like a throwaway Right. Jokey kind of product. And so we just took it seriously. And then since then I, I’ve grown the market a lot for, you know, and, and people have started looking for, you know, kitchen appliance quality masturbator, and that’s what interesting. I delivered to them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 60s): So you said that you wanted to get into a business with kind of a fence around it, which would be the adult industry. Why was that?

Speaker 2 (8m 10s): I mean, just from a competitive standpoint, it didn’t make sense that, that there was this huge industry, especially in 2008, there were a bunch more players now, still not as many players as you would expect for the amount of commerce that’s flowing through the industry. True. But, but in 2008, far fewer. And I, and I thought, well, why are very few people getting to make all the money from this entire industry? It doesn’t really make sense. And I learned it. Sure. And now since 2008, sex toys have become far more acceptable, you know, in society and more talented people, I would say have been attracted to the industry.

But at the time it wasn’t attracting, you know, I’m not young now, I’m, you know, 40, almost 42. But when I started I

Speaker 1 (8m 53s): Was, oh my god, really that old. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (8m 56s): I’ll be, but when I started

Speaker 1 (8m 57s): I’ll be, I’ll be 65 in October,

Speaker 2 (8m 59s): So, but yeah. But I’m still one of the younger, you know, people when I started Yes. And I was, you know, 28 or 29 and, and I would go to events. I was like the youngest person there at 30. And now there are far more people in, in that age range who are part of the industry, but at least on the toy side. But at the time, it just wasn’t, the industry was ruled by older people who had been making the same things for like rebranding the same products over and over again for decades. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s a little something wrong with that because people wanted better stuff, you know?

Yes. So there was just opportunity basically.

Speaker 1 (9m 35s): So, I mean, the area that you’re in, it’s not just toys and novelties, but it’s also sex tech. Sex tech has really come into its own and really grown in that period of time.

Speaker 2 (9m 47s): Yeah, I mean, yeah. I, I never call it sex tech. That seems to be like the popular thing to call it, to makes it acceptable. You know, people often use the, the word sex tech to, to kind of mask what it is. I, I just tend not to do it. I say that I make masturbation devices for men, you know? Right. I, I, I don’t say, ah, I make a health device, I make a sexual, you know? No. I say, you know, I say I make a a masturbation machine for men. Right. But yeah, it’s true.

The interest has grown immensely since I started. And not just the interest, but I think the interest was always there, but people were afraid to buy the products. And I think the media wants views. So for whatever the reason is, they needed views, sex was always saying they got them views, but sex technology and sex health kind of let the mainstream media have the best of both worlds. They were able to, to not do anything obscene, but to kind of couch the adult, you know, industry in like in a positive light.

And it, it just kind of made people feel mores secure buying this kind of product for themselves.

Speaker 1 (10m 55s): Well, the thing they call sex tech, the, the numbers have gone up to, to, to huge digits.

Speaker 2 (11m 5s): I, I guess so. I mean, I, I’ve seen it personally in my business. I’ve seen the growth that we’ve experienced. I don’t know anyone else’s. I don’t believe anybody else unless I see their numbers. I don’t believe anything. But I’m sure if something similar that what’s happened to us has happened to other people that yeah, people have grown a lot of medium and large scale businesses over the last 10 years in this industry.

Speaker 1 (11m 26s): So how has your experience with the law helped you as an entrepreneur?

Speaker 2 (11m 31s): To be honest, I think it’s helped me to avoid lawyers mainly. Excellent. And, and it’s, it’s taught me that, that, that I, I’ve seen it firsthand. You know, there’s various, obviously I’m running a, a company of like a medium size I’ve seen, I’ve needed help on various things. And at the beginning I thought, oh, I’ll ask a lawyer. And I think just seeing their scare tactics, I just, I saw the scare tactics of lawyers for what they were, which was like a, a money generation attempt.

You know, I asked, let, let’s say I needed a, let’s, let’s say for example, I, I wanna have a contract with somebody for something, right. And for me, I don’t think that’s gonna go wrong. I think that’s like, I just want to have something for general safety, but, but I have a 98%, you know, belief that nothing’s gonna go wrong. Let’s say I would devote $2,000 to that contract, you know, that’s like my limit of my risk. But I remember once I asked the lawyer at, you know, to do something and they, he started trying to scare me, you know, let me tell you the story of this guy who didn’t do what I said, and he lost his cars, his house, his whole life because they sued him and he didn’t have the right contract in place.

And it’s gonna be starting at 30,000 and then I’m gonna have to get this other council involved, you know, and then what? Oh yeah. I

Speaker 1 (12m 46s): Mean, for a simple contract,

Speaker 2 (12m 47s): I, I, I don’t know that it’s, I mean, if you ask a lawyer, nothing is simple. It says it can be, what I wanted was something simple, but was I a hundred percent protected with that $2,000 contract? No. Could I have been, been better protected with a more like research put in? Yes. But was it worth spending like $30,000 on No, because I don’t, I didn’t believe that the risk was there. So I think it’s taught me to deal with lawyers in a, in a way that’s more advantageous. And, and it’s also helped me to understand that the where, where you win dealing with lawyers isn’t in court, but in, in, in, in, in finding people who are good at having conversations with other people and coming to agreements, you know, that are advantageous.

So I sort of like learned to, to use them when necessary as a tool, but not to get caught up in their scare tactics of needing to spend a lot with them.

Speaker 1 (13m 41s): I would think though, with your background in law school, you would be qualified to write most agreements, right?

Speaker 2 (13m 49s): I suppose. Yeah. I, I suppose you learn about that, but I still wouldn’t trust myself to just write it. I, I’ve written many things myself, but yeah. Not, I, I tend to not need that many agreements. But no, I, I also just tend to trust people who they, they’ve done that. I also don’t trust myself. I trust someone who’s been doing that same thing for 20 years, but I, it is just, I had to work through a bunch of people to find the kind of guy who’s like, yeah, you need that thing. I get it. You wanna spend like 1500 bucks on this thing? It’s not a huge thing. Okay, I’ll bang it out like a three hours deal for you.

You know? Right. Instead of finding someone who’s always looking for the, the kill. So that’s a weird thing. That’s, but that’s what I learned from law school. It’s kind of like what to know whether I’m being bullshitted about costs.

Speaker 1 (14m 32s): Well, there are good lawyers in, there are not so good lawyers and yeah, I, I think the majority are going to give you sound legal advice. At least that’s been my experience. Yeah. And then there are some who, like you said, are looking for the kill. So Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 50s): And they, and they, they both, I’m sure they, they, the ones, all of them can give sound legal advice, but there’s a, you know, there’s people who want long-term relationships. Anyway, it just helped me to be choosy in working with lawyers. But no, I don’t think that, I think in the end, like in the broader way, it helped me to understand that I could teach myself how to do things. You know, I didn’t know anything. I’m not an engineer, I’m not a, a programmer, I wasn’t a marketer at the beginning, but I became one by learning. And I think once, you know, when you get to law school, they, they, one of the first classes you take is civil procedure and it’s hard and none of it makes sense until the end.

And I think once you’ve been through sort of courses like that, then it’s like, well I guess I could learn how to have a website made like that doesn’t seem harder than self procedure. You know? So I think it just sort of shows showed me like that there was something that’s really hard for me. And then other things seemed in comparison less hard.

Speaker 1 (15m 45s): Got it. So why did you decide on an automated male sex toy?

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): That was common sense? That’s the kind of masturbation device at the time. Imagine, think 2008, what was for sale that wasn’t handheld, right? Yeah. It was all handheld stuff or like big rubber butts and stuff. And I just thought it would, I mean, I wasn’t even, to be honest, I wasn’t a sex toy user really at the time, but I just knew if there was a machine that could give you a blowjob, that that’s something that man would want. Yeah. Just, I mean that was just basically absolutely.

I looked on the market like who’s, who’s making a good one? And it’s like, wait a minute, no one’s making a blowjob machine. That’s nuts. So I think it was just kind of common sense. I don’t know how no one really put the time into it before, but I think it’s because the money was coming to people so easily making garbage. Yeah. That they didn’t need to do the work. Like, it’s hard to make a nice hardware. It, it needs a couple years of development per device. You need to hire like kind of more expert level people and it’s, and if you could just make, you know, another fake butt, why would you go through the trouble?

So that’s, I think that was the mentality of people in, in the industry at the time. And it still is the mentality of, you know, a good percentage cuz they don’t need to innovate because they have their enough money already, basically.

Speaker 1 (17m 4s): Well, although I’ve noticed in the last I’d say five to seven years, there is a tremendous amount more product and there’s even more websites out there. They seem to be popping up all the time.

Speaker 2 (17m 20s): If you just look at how many products there are, there are a lot. But if you look at how many products are getting the sales, I would say it’s the 80 20 rule that applies to virtually everything in the world. Yeah, that’s true. And 20% of the products are getting 80% of the sales and then 80, and then the 80 is split the 80 20 again. And then you start to see real where the real volume is in that. Yeah. So a lot of the products are also kind of copying, you know, if you look at the popular products that actually get the sales, they have 10 types of products, you know, are trying to copy the success of every one of the actually popular products.

So it’s true, you know, well you lived in,

Speaker 1 (18m 0s): You lived, you lived in China. That’s done a lot there.

Speaker 2 (18m 3s): Yeah, it is. And you know what? They’re very good at it and it works and it’s a good idea. And that’s actually how innovation happens. When they were first making those suction toys, the womanizer and the, you know, I remember seeing a, a factory, you know, and they were, those toys only had the suction thing for women. And then I saw a factory came out with, it’s the suction thing on the one side and a vibrator like on the other side, you know, like, yeah. That’s innovation. And yeah.


Speaker 1 (18m 34s): Well talk a little bit about your invention process.

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): I’m not an engineer, but I, I, I have pretty clear ideas on how I want my devices to work. I tend to work with like small sort of specialty companies. Like there’s a company, a very small company like three to five guys in Canada that helped me develop auto blow ai. I know exactly like what I wanted to do and kind of how, and then I need engineers to like make it reality, right. And then, so I, I work with these guys in Canada and then after they kind of came out with a physical prototype, it’s really important, the factory that I work with in China then takes that thing like they made a thing that would be very expensive to ma to manufacture.

Then my factory in China is very good at taking that. They’re figuring out how to make it for a cost that would make it like mass marketable. So, okay. I think I’m just like, I, I think my skillset is really about sort of having like the vision and then just finding and motivating the, the right people along the way to do the steps that I, I don’t know how to do. You

Speaker 1 (19m 37s): Know? Got it.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): And, and keeping on

Speaker 1 (19m 39s): Track sounds like track a good process sounds like a good process. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 42s): Yeah. I think it’s a normal process.

Speaker 1 (19m 44s): Hmm. Okay. So you have two devices, how are they different?

Speaker 2 (19m 48s): So the auto blow two, two, it’s, we call it auto blow two plus xt, but that’s like the third or fourth iteration of Auto Blow two. That was the first one that became popular after the original one, which was, we sold kind of a bunch of the original one, but it wasn’t like popular, it wasn’t sold like in stores or anything. Auto Blow two basically has a motor and a kind of crank arm that’s connected to that motor and it drives this row three or, well now it’s five rows of like spring loaded beads up and down over a, a rubber sleeve.

It was the popular product before it was our, it was the most popular product in the automatic toy space. And still we have a lot of volume of that, but it is not the latest product. So that one is kind of, the good thing about it is that I think it gets the job done and I think it comes at a competitive price point. It’s like $150 product, but it’s loud, it’s relatively loud, it’s not a quiet product and it just has, has one dial on it that controls for speed and the, the sleeve is removable. So that was like one of the innovations was that you can remove the sleeve.

And actually on that one, the sleeve has three different sizes. So normally products don’t control for your penis size, but ours controls for penis size and tightness level by creating different sizes of sleeves. Like there are bra sizes for women. Got it. So the newer one, which is auto blow AI plus, which is the second generation of auto blow ai, that’s a, a totally different thing. Like we have several patents on the, on the move on the, the, the mechanism. So basically the new one has a, uses a hundred percent silicone sleeve. You put your penis into the device, into the, into the sleeve, which is in the device.

And there’s a penis gripper. And that gripper actually, you can modify the tightness level of that with a screwdriver. There’s a hole on the top and you put a screwdriver in and you can make the gripper tighter or looser depending on your personal preference. And so it, it manipulates that sleeve up and down over your penis really causing like more of this gliding and sliding action that, that occurs during real blowjobs. And it has, so it’s, it has four buttons, has a pause button, a speed buttons, and a, and a blowjob mode button.

And it has 10 LEDs. So you can always see which blowjob experience you’re in and which speed you’re in. But importantly it also connects to the internet. So the device itself connects to the internet and it uses a web app, so there’s no app to download it. You basically visit a webpage on your phone or whatever device you can control exactly which part of your penis it strokes on that you can download. There’s a blowjob library, so you can download from a library of blowjobs, additional blowjobs onto the device. You can send easily a link to a remote partner.

And the minute the second that they click that link, they’re automatically logged into the web app and they can control the device for you. Oh. And it’s, it’s the first sex soy ever that has voice control. So it has voice control built onto the, like the device or the chip itself. And there’s no wake word. So it takes six voice commands. Once you’re in the online mode, you can tell it faster, slower, pause, finish Me is the big one that turns the AI mode on in the fastest speed level to, to finish you.

So, and yeah, long story short, we did a machine learning study of the actions that occurred during blowjob. So that, and we implemented the, the, the act, you know, the, the movements that occurred during real blowjobs are the movements we programmed into the machine. So it’s not just like a few guys sat around and thought, well what do we make it do? And it’s like, it just goes up and down or it does this or that. Yeah, no, we actually understood we’re the first people to understand what happens during real blow jobs and, and and to implement those kind of movements into the machine.

So yeah, it’s a different experience. It’s a more expensive product. It’s a $240 product now, or $250 product, but it’s a different level of of experience, you know, for people that can afford the extra hundred bucks.

Speaker 1 (23m 48s): It sounds a very space age. Are you, you said a, a remote partner can control it. Is there any point where the remote partner will be able to give a device a blowjob and you’ll get that blowjob?

Speaker 2 (24m 2s): There are people who’ve implemented that. None have been implemented on a, on a product that’s commercially interesting. I think to the public, it’s not an area that I focus on. Certainly you can do it, but I don’t see that that’s where the public wants to go with this. With the technology, there are popular internet products for women. It’s like the, the Lovens brand or the, oh my bot brand are used by webcam models and it’s mainly used by women and men control that. I don’t think that many women wanna control men’s devices outside of like a, a paid situation.

So we don’t, I don’t really focus on this connect i, I focus on we can do that and there is a probably a, some people who will use it, but I don’t think it’s like the big, the future is in, you know, a woman giving like a a whoever giving a blowjob to like a, a dildo and the the device moving. I just don’t see it that people would rather not do it. I feel interesting and it’s possible I could implement it if I wanted to, but I, I don’t want to.

Speaker 1 (25m 1s): Okay. Yeah. Just something that came to mind. Yeah. What gives the, what gives the auto blowing advantage over the competition?

Speaker 2 (25m 10s): So basically the, the way that it, the newer version, at least the way that it grips the penis and does this gliding and sliding, it feels great. Not only does it feel good, but I, I feel like that our, our experiences are, are more realistic than what the competing products do. And our internet feature set is far simpler to use than the competing products feature set. We’re like, after you tell it how to connect to the internet, we’re like one tap, basically hold a button, press go, and you basically are are in, there’s no Bluetooth, there’s no configuring, there’s no, it’s, I think it’s a lot more user friendly cuz I’ve seen from competing products that have internet features, a lot of people have trouble making it work because they use Bluetooth.

And Bluetooth is a big pain in the ass. And so we avoid it by using wifi only.

Speaker 1 (26m 0s): Cool. So you have a very funny video on the website. I loved it. How did you come up with it and what kind of response has it

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): Gotten? Yeah, so from the time that I, I first made Auto Blow two, I decided to communicate to, to, to people through cartoons especially because I feel there’s a lot of people who might buy a sex way, it might not, they, they, I feel like it, it takes it out of the realm of being sleazy and it’s just something like funny. I just like communicating. I, I feel like it’s unusual to see cartoons of an adult nature. So people are already kind of like, oh this is like actually a cartoon about like a blowjob machine.

So they’re, I dunno, they’re kind of interested and I, I have fun. Like this is what I, I think I’m good at doing. So I, I enjoy doing it. I write those, so like, I write them, I, I I write out how everything should go and then I, there’s a, a, a company that I work with who implements the, my ideas and, and like the voiceovers beta stuff. So I think it’s kind of like half of it is that it’s fun for me. And the second half is that when, when we started doing it, it worked and people liked being communicated with Sure. In, in that way. So I, I just kept, kept doing it.

Speaker 1 (27m 12s): Well that company’s very good at what they do. I might have to get the name from you. How have you gotten so much press over the years?

Speaker 2 (27m 20s): I understand what kind of product features are interesting from a societal perspective. You know, it’s like if you’re like, oh look, I made this new pair of headphones. It’s like no one cares. You know, like maybe they’re a little better than other headphones, but you’re not getting in the news over it. Right, right. So I’ve only, I’ve done some outrageous things that have like, that have a, a big impact on, on, on people. For example, you know, the the reason auto blow two went viral when we started was that I crowdfunded it on a crowdfunding website.

And the, the thing, the crazy thing was that people started buying it. We sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth on a crowdfunding website and no one had ever crowdfunded an adult product for that much money before. Wow. So the story and, and I use myself, so people were like, not only did people, like thousands of people buy this blowjob machine on a crowdfunding website, but can you believe this guy who was like promoting it? Like, it’s outrageous. So I kind of learned sort of how to deliver something that was both like societally like relevant to society, but but also interesting and kind of funny and, and shareable.

And I think the other big one that, that we did was the vagina contest. So we had a huge scale vaginal beauty contest. It was on this website, vagina contest.com and I think it would never fly today. They would never write about vagina contest.com today. But you know what, No. In 2015 it just like hit a nerve and it went viral all over the world and millions of people started visiting the website and it ended with a, a a a website came to Germany to, to make a short documentary about me and the women who came to, who are the winners of the contest when I 3D scanned them.

So funny. You know, I think it’s about kind of creating entertainment. There’s like a mix of entertainment and commerce that I think I sort of just sort of understand how to hit.

Speaker 1 (29m 18s): What’s your vision on using tech in different ways than other adult toy companies are doing?

Speaker 2 (29m 24s): Yeah, so, you know, on this topic of voice control, there are, so companies are, even the couple companies that focus on high tech, I don’t think they’re really having like the, that that big of a vision of, of what kind of technology is possible to implement in adult toys that other people just haven’t done. So, I mean, I just looked around and said, look, cell phones, we, we are all talking to our Siri and Alexa or whatever, but why hasn’t anyone implemented in sex ways?

It’s natural for people to continually Sure. Talk to their phone or their Alexa. So, you know, the voice control’s just an example of something that, you know, it’s just opportunity. Like no one has done that and it’s, it wasn’t easy to do. Like that was a lot of work and, and I think how much work it is, you know, nor if you, if you’ve looked the, the products that implement those kind of things normally are in much larger companies, you know? Yeah. With much larger budget. So we had to be pretty scrappy to do it. And I wouldn’t say ours is not like as accurate as Alexa or something. Right. But it’s, it’s pretty good for who we are and like the budget and stuff, right.

So, sure. I think people are just afraid of like figuring out how to do awesome technology for less and maybe they’re afraid of releasing stuff that’s like, you know, ours is like in the, let’s say it’s around 85% accurate, Siri and Alexa are like in the high nineties. Right. I’m not afraid to release that and say, yeah, it’s like pretty accurate. It’s not gonna be perfect, you know? But I think some companies don’t wanna do things that aren’t perfect, but I think we’re happy to do something cool and just tell people like, don’t expect that we’re gonna be Apple cause we’re not. But you know, so yeah.

I think it’s just a, a level of comfort with figuring out how to do stuff with new technology and, and being comfortable not doing it. Absolutely perfectly.

Speaker 1 (31m 7s): Sure. What do you think the future holds for adult novelty companies regarding acquisitions and mergers?

Speaker 2 (31m 16s): Yeah, so this is something, you know, a company is already contacted us, but I, I don’t think it’s really my time to sell. And there’s a lot of mergers and acquisitions happening. It’s particularly in Europe, two big companies have started buying up smaller companies. It’s coming. It’s interesting. And if this was any other industry, okay, it would’ve started 10 years ago. Okay. So the fact that it’s just starting and there’s a few big companies playing around, it means that more of them are coming and there’s gonna be a lot of consolidation.

I’d say in the next 10 years there’s gonna be a ton of consolidation and, you know, whether or not those, I don’t know what the future looks like of the industry with those companies, honestly, but I think there’s gonna be opportunity for people who wanna sell. But I think it also might get harder, you know, one of the risks for us making this kind of product is imagine, you know, if, if you look at what we can do with my, you know, small medium company, what if Sony decided it was gonna make a blowjob machine? What if Samsung decided to make vibrators?

Like those people can, can those, those giant, you know, global companies have, they could make amazing adult products, right? Sure. So I think there’s opportunity from the, from, from the acquisitions, but it just depends if any giant companies, you know, will, will start competing, I think it’s gonna be kind of risky for everyone in the industry. But I, I don’t think we’re there yet that those global companies will, will come in. But who knows in maybe 20 or 25 years they could have run out of other things to make and they could come for us.


Speaker 1 (32m 56s): Sure. So what’s the future for Auto Blow?

Speaker 2 (33m 1s): We have a few more pieces of hardware now in development really focused on this kind of automatic experience. I just think about kind of the medium term. I think about really only the next one or two years we have a couple new, new pieces of hardware that we’re working on. So I’m young, I’m, I’m only 42 and I have still a lot of runway left to continue to figure out, you know, new styles of devices with, with all the new technology that keeps coming out. You know, there were some motor types. For example, there was a type of motor I looked at like a couple years ago.

We bought samples to play with, they were $600 a piece just for the motor. Okay. But they were silent. But you can imagine in a few years that maybe that kind of $600 silent motor becomes a, you know, a $50 silent motor or a $20 silent motor and then interesting things become possible. So I think just by staying really, I, I I read a lot on the internet all day kind of every day. So yeah, I think that as long as I, I sort of keep reading about the latest technologies, I’ll keep finding interesting new technologies to implement into products and sort of continue having our own little walled garden of masturbation devices.

Speaker 1 (34m 11s): Very good. So do you see the auto blow and sex robots somehow merging into something greater at some point? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (34m 19s): You know, the, the, the media loves sex robots because they’re outrageous. Oh sure. But I don’t, I don’t think there’s any future in the next like decades at least in these humanoid style of robots. People don’t really wanna have sex with a robot person. It’s bizarre. I mean, it’s like having sex with a corpse. Okay. Like, I mean, even if you make it its mouth kind of talk to you or whatever. It’s not, I mean, it’s not, it’s, it’s like a, it’s like a dead person.

So there’s a, a very small group of people who, who more buy those kind of dolls for like more companionship reasons, which I can understand cuz you know, people are different. So I understand the companionship a, you know, aspect, but on the mass market, it’s just not a convenient thing to own, you know, a human size thing that needs to live in your closet. So I think that the growth is really only gonna happen on devices like ours. I think devices like mine will get better and quieter and maybe smaller, maybe even bigger depending on what they can do.

But the doll market will always be there and there’ll always be people kind of trying to put robotics and dolls into the same sort of category. But I, I don’t see it for at least my lifetime becoming a product that most people are interested in just because it doesn’t do anything back to you. It’s not Westworld, it’s, it just lays there, you know. So, you know, when they, they, when they did make it, honestly, when they did make the robots, that, that kind of talk, I was thinking the thing that they made the robot to is talk that’s, they wanted to like move on your body when you’re having sex with it, but as long as it just lays there, I think that’s a kind of a, a niche, a very niche market.

Speaker 1 (35m 60s): Well what if they do develop it so it actually moves?

Speaker 2 (36m 4s): Yeah. Like if a robot sits in your lap and kind of like has sex with you, but it’s still, it’s gonna be, it’s not gonna be like fluid like a human. It’s gonna be like they installed some kind of thing in it and it’s like hips go back and forth like, you know, almost like killing you. It’s not gonna be like a gentle, we’re a long way off from a gentle robot, robot humanoid robot experience.

Speaker 1 (36m 25s): Yeah, you’re probably right. Well, Brian, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (36m 35s): Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (36m 36s): It was a pleasure. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about eliminating unneeded expenses. Next you can trademark your website. Having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable when it comes time to sell it. Trademarking your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment when it comes time to sell it.

Show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends. If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better. Be different in some distinguishable way than makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you.

Make your site a place that people wanna visit, not just to buy things or view porn. Be creative, not just one of the many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site. Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech. We’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week we’ll be speaking with Chris of Saucy time. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk.

I’d once again like to thank my guest, Brian Sloan of Auto Blow. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with dominatrix and hypnotist Mistress Carol, Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a streaming network of sites for independent performers. Most of the traffic comes from North America. It’s the Shopify of streaming video and offers turnkey streaming sites to content creators. All creators have to do is provide some information about their brand, choose a look and feel, upload their images and videos, and they launch their streaming site on the domain of their choice in just minutes.

The platform provides everything creators need from customer support to payment processing, so creators can focus on managing their content and marketing their site. The platform can also generate revenue from ads on free content, as well as subscriptions to premium content. The platform uses AWS Cloud technology to stream live and on-demand content all around the world. The sale also includes a mainstream platform. The content is sold on a monthly subscription basis.

The code was developed in-house by their team of engineers. This is a great opportunity to enter the exciting world of live streaming video for a modest cost. Platforms like this cost a lot more to build from scratch, only $540,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Mr. Carroll. Mr. Carroll, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 50s): Oh, you’re very welcome. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 53s): It’s a pleasure. Now, Mr. Carroll is a dominatrix, erotic hypnotist and clinical hypnotherapist. I’m gonna try not to screw that up at erotic hypnosis for men.com. She’s an expert at controlling your mind and taking you deep into the sensual experience of hypnotic trance and fantasy. Her sessions have been celebrated as some of the best in the industry with her provocative and controlling voice that welcomes one to surrender into hypnotic submission with an intellectual interest in psychology and the mysteries of the subconscious mind.

Mr. Carroll has been practicing hypnosis and creating erotic transitions for over 10 years. As a sensu, she takes pleasure in creating a dream-like environment where one may be immersed in fantasy, lost inside her control and sexually dominated. As she blows your mind, she thrives on pain and pleasure, domination and submission control and surrender, plus passion and desire with a bit of a mischievous streak and a playful manner, Mr. Carol enjoys the dynamics of tease and denial, taking you to the edge of agony and lust, then leaving you aching for more professionally.

Mr. Carroll is also a clinical hypnotherapist and works with the community, supporting individuals with overcoming issues and habits, so they may create their best lives. She’s helped many to overcome anxiety, stop smoking, lose weight, and conquer their own personal limitations. Mr. Ll is the creator of erotic hypnosis for men.com, a layer of wicked enchantment and depravity, which features a captivating variety of recorded erotic hypnosis sessions available for online purchase.

Mr. Ll also offers live online sessions for one-on-one trance experiences and distance training on many sexually inspiring topics. You may also find her older discounted sessions at my hypnotic domains, or visit her@loyalfans.com slash Mr. Carroll, where you can enjoy her subscriber only v i p content. And we’ve got a treat on the podcast today. Mr. Carroll is gonna do a few minutes of trance with us, so it should be interesting.

Speaker 2 (5m 3s): Mr. Carroll.

Speaker 1 (5m 5s): Yes. What’s involved? Yeah, my, I’m losing my voice here. What’s involved,

Speaker 2 (5m 10s): You may sound,

Speaker 1 (5m 12s): What’s involved in erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (5m 15s): Well, before I talk about erotic hypnosis, I’d like to touch on what hypnosis is. Hypnosis is an altered state of mind in which you focus your awareness on the speaker. You experience decreased awareness of the things around you. You become relaxed and it’s adjustable. So that is hypnosis in a nutshell. And of course, everybody knows that hypnosis is good for all sorts of things that I You And so is erotic hypnosis that matter of fact,

Speaker 1 (5m 50s): Erotic hypnosis.

Speaker 2 (5m 51s): Yeah, erotic hypnosis is hypnosis with a sexual component. There are many different genres. Of course, I’m a dominatrix, I’m a mistress, so I use that point of view in my recordings. Okay. Although I’m a, a clinical hypnotherapist too, so I, I also make recordings that are helpful to people to relax or shed anxiety just to feel good, just to have a timeout.

Speaker 1 (6m 19s): Great.

Speaker 2 (6m 20s): So ERO hypnosis is hypnosis with a sexual component to it.

Speaker 1 (6m 24s): Okay. So how did you get started with erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (6m 30s): Actually, I got started in B D S M first. I met my partner over 20 years ago and had moved on to a different type of life. Met him and he shared his desires of exploring B D S M, and I thought, yeah, that sounds like a good time. So we experimented. We tried switch, which we would go back and forth, and I said, no, that’s not working me, Dom, you sub. So after, oh, 10 years of our experimentation in 2008, I lost my job and my former life, I was a commercial construction project manager.

Speaker 1 (7m 12s): Yeah, we were talking about that course.

Speaker 2 (7m 14s): Yeah. Every, everything can I curse, everything went to shit

Speaker 1 (7m 21s): For everybody.

Speaker 2 (7m 22s): For everybody. So I lost my job and it took two years of unemployment before I found another one. But before I did find that job, my partner turned me onto erotic hypnosis and let me listen to a couple of sessions by some excellent artists. And I went, whoa, that tick a couple of boxes for me. Domination, psychology, control, all sorts of things. Yeah. So I wanted to experiment, and I used a rudimentary microphone and created a session for him, and he went in and listened to it and came back out with red eyes and said, that’s as good as anything I’ve heard on the internet bulb.

So I decided, okay, this is fun. I’m going to start my own business creating erotic hypnosis recordings. And at the same time that I did that, I did that in the November of 2010, and then by the beginning of the next year I was employed. Hmm. So for quite some time, I did both at the same time. Okay. So I’d have to credit my discovery of a rod hypnosis was through my partner.

Speaker 1 (8m 26s): Yeah. That’s awesome. That is, that is really, that is really awesome. It,

Speaker 2 (8m 30s): It is awesome. When you find something that really clicks with you in many different ways,

Speaker 1 (8m 35s): How has the onset of the fan sites helped you sell those sessions?

Speaker 2 (8m 45s): Well, you know, I avoided them for quite some time. And I just now recently have joined loyal fans, and I don’t know how well they cross over just yet because I’m new to loyal fans.

Speaker 1 (8m 60s): Right.

Speaker 2 (9m 0s): But it’s nice to have somewhere else to expose your work Yeah. And to find new people. So it’s a good mix, but I still don’t know whether or not ultimately one is helping the other.

Speaker 1 (9m 19s): Hmm. Yeah. That makes sense. Well, any place that you can market is, is certainly a good thing. And there are a lot of outlets for that. So I would encourage you to certainly put the content on as many sites as possible. I would think something like clips for sale, which

Speaker 2 (9m 36s): Yeah. They take a little

Speaker 1 (9m 38s): Bit too more tend to be more, more

Speaker 2 (9m 38s): Much cash.

Speaker 1 (9m 40s): What’s that?

Speaker 2 (9m 41s): I don’t like to give up my money. They take a little bit too much of my cash.

Speaker 1 (9m 44s): Well, that’s not, that’s not a good thing. Okay. Very good. So, so what do you enjoy about erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (9m 52s): There’s many dis different aspects of it. I enjoy, I enjoy the creativity. So I get to think about how I want to hypnotize somebody. What methods, what genre do, is it bdsm? Is it bondage, is it just deep trance? I have many different topics to choose from. So I sit down and write my script, record it, and produce it. And it’s, it’s very, it’s very creative and it feeds my dominant side while subs get to enjoy it too.

Speaker 1 (10m 25s): Can you hypnotize me to rob a bank for you?

Speaker 2 (10m 28s): Do you wanna rob a bank?

Speaker 1 (10m 30s): No,

Speaker 2 (10m 31s): Then no, unfortunately. Well, unfortunately, actually, this isn’t something you wanted anybody to have control over. You. Hypnosis cannot make you do something you would not do out of hypnosis. Hmm. So you don’t wanna rob a bank. You would not do it for me if I hypnotized you. TV shows a different picture, and that’s fun for entertainment. But I would imagine if anybody had that capacity, hypnosis would soon become a thing of the past.

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): Yeah. That would suck

Speaker 2 (11m 4s): The kind of power and control over somebody else’s mind. Yeah. What do you think it is? The government or something

Speaker 1 (11m 12s): Spoken by someone who used to work for the state of California? Right?

Speaker 2 (11m 15s): Yeah. Yeah. That was the job I got back in, in 2010. Five years of hell.

Speaker 1 (11m 23s): Yeah. We touched on a few things in our casual conversation and you, you, you happen to mention that. And I went, oh no.

Speaker 2 (11m 32s): Oh, it was horrid. It really was. But you do what you have to do knowing that better things are around the corner.

Speaker 1 (11m 39s): Yeah. And they obviously were,

Speaker 2 (11m 41s): They were, I’m having so much fun now I work for myself. Yeah. And that is a wonderful thing. I can do things in my own timeframe.

Speaker 1 (11m 49s): Yeah. So talk about the, the line of work you had before you became a hypnotist.

Speaker 2 (11m 57s): I was in commercial construction and I was the project manager. So my tools were a computer and a telephone Yeah. And a car. And I did mostly tenant improvements, although I did do a large shopping center down in San Jose and ran the construction projects from estimating to project closeout. Everything about it belong to me, and that was really good at it too. And I enjoyed it. I wouldn’t have left it voluntarily to do this.

Yeah. So getting that nasty job with the state pushed me in a great direction. But yeah, I, I was in construction for over 25 years. I didn’t do management the whole 25 years. I did management for about 15 years.

Speaker 1 (12m 42s): You couldn’t pick a more different line of work than what you’re doing now.

Speaker 2 (12m 48s): Well, think about it. I’m still telling men what to do.

Speaker 1 (12m 55s): That’s funny.

Speaker 2 (12m 56s): So it kind of fits together a little bit.

Speaker 1 (12m 59s): So what about that, you know, you mentioned telling men what to do. What about that is appealing to you?

Speaker 2 (13m 6s): Oh, I’m a dominatrix. I like to, to be in control of situations. I like to play with the minds of others and open them up and show them what they can experience psychologically through the use of hypnosis and altered states, and take them down into deep trance. And the subconscious mind is such a powerful thing. Right. And they, through images and suggestibility, they experience these things.

I can some, not all, because suggestibility is different in everyone, but there are people that I can take down into trance and suggest to them to have a hands free orgasm. And that’s precisely what they do without even touching themselves through the use of words alone. Wow.

Speaker 1 (13m 58s): Seriously.

Speaker 2 (13m 60s): Seriously. That is the

Speaker 1 (14m 1s): Power without, without even touching themselves.

Speaker 2 (14m 4s): That is right. Not everybody can do it.

Speaker 1 (14m 6s): That’s crazy. And

Speaker 2 (14m 7s): Those, those who can’t are really disappointed, but a lot of people can.

Speaker 1 (14m 12s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (14m 12s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14m 13s): You’re a lifestyle dominatrix. You, you mentioned that your, your partner got you into it. Yes. But what, what really drew you to the lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (14m 25s): I think it was an opportunity to let a side of my personality that I hadn’t played with before out to experiment. And the more I did it, the more I enjoyed it, the better I got back around in that circle. The more I did it, the better I got. The more he enjoyed it, the more I enjoyed it. And it just growed, growed it.

Speaker 1 (14m 47s): Just a new word.

Speaker 2 (14m 49s): Yeah. It just grew into a very pleasurable, intimate, sexual relationship.

Speaker 1 (14m 59s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (14m 59s): And I can take the things that I’ve learned as a dominatrix and I can take them and use them in my recordings also.

Speaker 1 (15m 7s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (15m 8s): So I’ve done recordings using chloroform for force talks, lovers. I’ve done nipple piercing, I’ve done the use of smoke. Hmm. But all of those things aren’t very mainstream.

Speaker 1 (15m 25s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15m 26s): And the situations that work best for most of my clients are just relinquishing control to me for a period of time and being taken away where they have no responsibility and they can enjoy the pleasure of surrendering to a dominant mistress.

Speaker 1 (15m 49s): Is it hard to get them to relinquish control?

Speaker 2 (15m 54s): Well, it depends on the individual. That’s why I don’t keep anything back. If it’s very difficult for you and you don’t like giving up control to another, my hypnosis is probably not for you. If you enjoy it and you still don’t feel like you’re a submissive, well, you’re a submissive for the time that I have you in trance. And then you go on your merry way. But if you’re really opposed to it, it’s probably not going to be something you’re comfortable with.

Yeah. And it’s very important to establish a sense of trust and rapport. Yeah. For someone to be able to go that deep into trance,

Speaker 1 (16m 36s): I would think.

Speaker 2 (16m 37s): Yeah. I mean, you don’t wanna be surrendering your subconscious mind to just anyone that would, could be dangerous.

Speaker 1 (16m 44s): Yeah. Now, you also do live sessions, right?

Speaker 2 (16m 47s): I do. In fact, I just finished one before you and I got together. And unfortunately my internet dropped, but that’s okay. He and I got back together and I said, I want you to sleep. And he was back down, down deep into hypnosis with just one simple word.

Speaker 1 (17m 2s): Geez.

Speaker 2 (17m 3s): He’s very suggestible. That’s,

Speaker 1 (17m 5s): That’s powerful.

Speaker 2 (17m 6s): Very suggestible. And that’s so much fun. Oh my goodness. It is really fun. I get to have all the fun. Well, they have fun

Speaker 1 (17m 16s): Too, I can tell you enjoy what you do.

Speaker 2 (17m 19s): I really do. I really do.

Speaker 1 (17m 22s): So what do you like, go ahead. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (17m 24s): I was gonna say, but I really like hypnotherapy too, but there’s, there’s a firewall in between both practices. They don’t beat in the middle, it’s one or the other.

Speaker 1 (17m 34s): Right. Of course. Of course. Now, what do you like doing with your play partners The most?

Speaker 2 (17m 40s): My personal play partners? Yeah. Oh, I’m a big lover of nipple play, pegging, forced inta. My partner’s got a smoke fetish, which feeds both of us. I’m not a, a daily smoker by any means, but playing with him is a lot of fun bondage. He’s not into his C B T, so we just don’t go there.

Speaker 1 (18m 4s): Sorry, what’s C B T?

Speaker 2 (18m 6s): Oh, cotton ball Torture.

Speaker 1 (18m 8s): Ah. I wouldn’t be,

Speaker 2 (18m 10s): Yeah. As your boss, Frank,

Speaker 1 (18m 11s): Make me hurt. Just thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (18m 13s): Yeah. But we use a lot of hypnosis in our relationship now. Whether it’s going on something physical afterwards, I typically start with a recording. I set him up with a recording and we have a unit that I can talk through while he’s listening to recording. So I can enhance it for whatever I have planned for him, which is pretty slick. So I can use recordings I make for others and just enhance ’em and make him listen to them. But he loves hypnosis, so it’s easy for both of us.

Speaker 1 (18m 45s): Great. Have you ever had anything unusual happen during A B D S M sessions? She laughs.

Speaker 2 (18m 53s): Oh gosh. Back when I was a baby dom and we were both experimenting, there was a couple of fantasies that he had that I tried to fulfill. I did fulfill them, but on my side, and it was a little rocky. He wanted to have his nipples pierced and I hate needles, but I love him. So, way back when I decided I’m going to do this, got all the supplies ready to go, he was really good about it.

Held still. I did it. I suffered through it with him and ended up piercing both his nipples. A few weeks later, they healed up.

Speaker 1 (19m 35s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (19m 36s): I had to do it again.

Speaker 1 (19m 37s): Oh shit.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): Yeah, that’s what I thought. But I did it second time was easier than the first. Still difficult, but easier than the first. So when I see some of those photographs posted on the internet of elaborate needle patterns, I have to admire them. And then I have to look away cuz it’s just not my thing.

Speaker 1 (19m 57s): Yeah. A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people are squeamish about that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (20m 2s): Yeah. I mean, it’s either you love it or hate it, I guess it’s just never been something

Speaker 1 (20m 7s): I would’ve been a, I would’ve been a great drug addict, probably. I mean, I’m like, when I go to get a blood test, I’m like looking right at right at at her and looking at my arm. Keep

Speaker 2 (20m 17s): It to me,

Speaker 1 (20m 17s): Babe. Give it, go for it. Go for it. And then I, I’ll say, I’ll say things like, ow, you know, just to, to mess her up. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (20m 28s): And another incident, we had another, he’s a forced into guy. He wanted to try chloroform. And I can’t tell you how I got my hands on him, but I did. And the first time I used it on him, he started speaking in tongues and I just about came on undone. I thought, my God, I’ve killed him. What have I done to him? And it was just a reaction of the first time he’d ever been chloroform. But I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that. I thought I killed him. I’m never doing this again.

Speaker 1 (20m 60s): Oh God.

Speaker 2 (21m 0s): But that wasn’t the case. So yeah, those are the two things that really stand out in my mind as I was working my way through learning bdsm, becoming more confident in my skills and getting good at what I do. I mean, there’s some tiers, some anchor, but now the adventures are a lot of fun. And I get to, like I said before, I cross over from the playroom to the studio and take some of my knowledge and create hypnosis for those that are into such things.

I wouldn’t recommend anyone who would be offended by the use of chloroform to listen to any of my sessions. I had one of my subs contact me yesterday saying how much he hated it. I thought, well, why did you buy it? It says right there at chloroform. But if it’s something that offends your mind, you are not going to be able to stay in T trance. You will come out. Yeah. If you’re a chlor, if you’re a forced into lover, you probably will enjoy the whole thing. But if you’re opposed to that sort of thing, you’ll come directly out of trance.

That’s how the subconscious mind works. It’ll pop you right out. If it’s something that your subconscious mind determines is a danger to you or does not fit within your belief system, your mind will pull you right out of trance.

Speaker 1 (22m 21s): That whole chloroform instance must have been really a shock to your system.

Speaker 2 (22m 27s): It was. It was petrifying. He was fine. He didn’t care. But it, it really did scare me a lot. So you have to be careful with such things. You know what you’re doing.

Speaker 1 (22m 37s): Absolutely. Now, you’re also a hypnotherapist. Now what exactly does that entail?

Speaker 2 (22m 44s): In my hypnotherapy practice, I use techniques that help people to get rid of certain things within their minds, such as anxiety. Hypnotherapy is absolutely brilliant for anxiety. I’ve had a couple of clients who had debilitating anxiety and hypnotherapy got rid of it, and they leave happy normal lives. Nice. The subconscious mind is where all of your beliefs are stored, your habits.

It’s a 24 7 recording device, basically. So everything that you’ve experienced in life is in there. Yeah. Whether or not you can remember it, it still affects your behaviors. So people have hypnotherapy to get rid of those behaviors. Right. And there are certain blocks and obstacles that you’ve got in there that hypnotherapy lets you remove so that they can change the behaviors, whether it’s being anxious or a repeating habit that you wanna get rid of smoking, losing weight, something personal.

Personal issue. So it’s a way to get into the subconscious mind without chemicals, so you don’t have to go to the doctor and take medication to get rid of your anxiety. So if there’re people out there listening to this podcast, you’re anxious, you’re on the edge, you think you want to go and get some help medically? Yeah. Try hyp, try hypnotherapy first. Yeah. It, you know, I’ve had with anxiety, I’ve had a hundred percent track record. Wow. So give it a try before you go and get a pharmaceutical.

Speaker 1 (24m 26s): Yeah. Because doctors are so quick to prescribe things.

Speaker 2 (24m 30s): Oh yeah. That’s how that big pharma makes their money. And doctors are part of that

Speaker 1 (24m 34s): Shtick. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Did you, did you read that book about Purdue Pharma?

Speaker 2 (24m 42s): I did not.

Speaker 1 (24m 43s): Oh God. It’s, I forget the name of it, but I, it, it was a, looks like 600 pages, but it’s basically how Purdue Pharma got over on the entire world by, you know, the, I mean, there was virtually no accountability. The money they ended up being fined, they could have taken out of their back pocket. So, oh. You know, they were the ones who, the, who sparked the whole opioid crisis.

Speaker 2 (25m 9s): Oh God. That is just horrible. I’m glad I haven’t read it. I would find that extremely disturbing.

Speaker 1 (25m 14s): It’s, it was disturbing. But it was very interesting. It started with the beginning, the founder, Purdue Pharma, they were also the ones that started advertising meds.

Speaker 2 (25m 28s): Oh

Speaker 1 (25m 29s): Yeah. They were the first, the guy that was the founder of Purdue Pharma was an advertising guy.

Speaker 2 (25m 38s): Oh great.

Speaker 1 (25m 39s): Oh, it’s, it’s a fascinating read. It is just a fascinating read. I, I, I couldn’t believe it. But yeah, I mean that’s, that’s what doctors wanna do. They wanna prescribe meds.

Speaker 2 (25m 51s): Yes. Everybody makes some money.

Speaker 1 (25m 54s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (25m 55s): And, but you know, I’ve taken medication before. I wear one disrupted my system. So they gave me another for that disruption. And then there’s another disruption when I should have never had it in the first place. And I think that happens to a lot of people too.

Speaker 1 (26m 7s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26m 8s): Yeah. I’m an advocate for the natural stuff.

Speaker 1 (26m 12s): So with hypnosis, let’s say I wanna lose weight, which I do wanna lose weight. How does hypnosis help me lose weight?

Speaker 2 (26m 21s): Well, just like erotic hypnosis, the, they’re different because in neurotic hypnosis, you can use a lot of language that you can’t in hypnotherapy. But I put you in basically a transfer. You become deeply relaxed and you slip from your conscious mind into your subconscious mind. Okay. So the patterns of why you overeat or what you do to yourself are stored there. So I am your guy. Right. I just show you how to find them.

You find them, you remove them. Okay. Which allows you to make the changes that you want to make. Hmm. So you, you could have had something when you were three years old that your parents said to you that created an issue in your subconscious mind that causes you to overeat. You just, you just don’t know. Right. Because you pick up everything. So you don’t know where it came from. You just know that you have this behavior that you want to change. Right. And consciously you’re aware that you wanna change that behavior.

Right. But subconscious mind comes in there, say you’re smoking, I love cigarettes. I love it when we can go outside and have quiet time and just have a cigarette. Your conscious mind is saying, I gotta quit. Your subconscious mind is saying, oh, don’t we feel good when we smoke

Speaker 1 (27m 37s): It?

Speaker 2 (27m 37s): We have no therapy house.

Speaker 1 (27m 38s): It sounds like, it sounds like animal house with, with sounds like people. Yeah. Well it sounds like animal house where he is got the, where he is, got the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder. Remember that. It’s,

Speaker 2 (27m 48s): It’s kinda like that in a, a little more complex way. But hip therapy helps the subconscious mind and the conscious mind to quit fighting and just get along. So it helps you to get into your own mind. Right. And help you make those changes that you want to make. The techniques that I can use, I can even work with somebody who’s had trauma. I don’t have to know what that trauma is. Right. Because in traditional therapy, what do you do? You talk about the trauma. So you just make it a fresh wound.

But with hypnotherapy, there are techniques that you can use to get in there and remove the things that just don’t work. Replace them with good positive things, get out the boot, out the negative, put in the positive, and get back to living your good life.

Speaker 1 (28m 34s): Does it make them forget the trauma or does it just kind of wipe clean what the trauma did?

Speaker 2 (28m 40s): No, it just helps you to rise above it. Beyond it. No, I don’t think hypnotherapy, although I, I can, I, in erotic hypnosis, I can hypnotize somebody so deeply they don’t remember what I did or what I said. But with hypnotherapy, you’re, you’re more aware of what you are doing and where you are. So unfortunately it’s, it doesn’t wipe clear any past trauma, but it certainly helps you get over it.

Speaker 1 (29m 7s): Yeah. Very interesting. So when you aren’t hypnotizing people, what do you like to do?

Speaker 2 (29m 13s): Oh, what do I like to do?

Speaker 1 (29m 15s): No,

Speaker 2 (29m 15s): I asked you. I, I like, I am an avid fisherwoman. I don’t know, fisherwoman is, I think it’s fisherman is the correct term. I love to deep seafish. I absolutely love to fish. Hmm. I fish in lakes and rivers. But my thing is getting on a boat in a boat on the ocean.

Speaker 1 (29m 34s): Not seas much. Are you?

Speaker 2 (29m 36s): I have never gotten seasick. No. I’ve been out in Bodega Bay and you know what that’s like. And I never got sick. I was one of two people who didn’t get sick on a trip once that we went out there. So I’m very fortunate since I love to fish so much. Hmm. And I like to do things outside, hiking and exploring. But right now my hypno, my hypno life is quite busy. So I don’t get the opportunity to get out as much as I would like.

Speaker 1 (30m 6s): It sounds like you live in a great part of the world to do all that.

Speaker 2 (30m 10s): I do. I do. I’m really blessed. I’m very fortunate. I live in a wonderful place. Yeah. And I enjoy it very much

Speaker 1 (30m 18s): Except for the fires.

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): Except for the fires I could do without that. Yeah. Take a sip, sip of tea from my lungs.

Speaker 1 (30m 26s): Yeah, exactly. So what are your future goals?

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): Well, I’m really enjoying what I’m doing with the creativity of erotic hypnosis recordings. And I love working with clients online. But at some point in time in my future, I don’t know exactly when that timeframe would be. I’d like to create lessons to teach mistresses the art of transient their subjects. I really get turned on working with a prodo.

So she’s got a sub. I hypnotize that guy. I put all sorts of stuff into his mind and she gets to play with it. Triggers trigger is just a clue as to a reaction that’s been put into your subconscious mind, like a snap of my fingers. So I just really enjoy the aspect of teaching others other doms, how to use hypnosis in their personal sessions with their clients.

So I, at some point in time before I leave the profession, I’m going to, to put something like that together, pass on the knowledge that I’ve gained through the years.

Speaker 1 (31m 41s): Sounds, sounds like a great idea.

Speaker 2 (31m 43s): It’s one of those things that really turns me on. In fact, I’ve got a client next week, of course I will be there virtually, but it will be a twosome with his real, for lack of a better term, real life dom. He’ll be there in person and then I’ll be skyping in.

Speaker 1 (32m 2s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (32m 3s): I’m really looking forward to it too.

Speaker 1 (32m 5s): Yeah. Kind of a threesome

Speaker 2 (32m 7s): It, it is a threesome.

Speaker 1 (32m 11s): So you, so you do work both in-person and online?

Speaker 2 (32m 15s): I do. When I can. I’ve done in-person work when I’ve been in England and London, but I live rurally, so there’s no place close by that I can do live sessions. I’m not opposed to live sessions at all. They’re a great deal of fun. Right. But it’s two and a half hours to the bay.

Speaker 1 (32m 34s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32m 34s): And that’s just too far. It would be far too expensive for anybody to be able to, to do that anyway.

Speaker 1 (32m 40s): Yeah. They’d have to pay for your travel time.

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): Absolutely. Yeah. That would be a full day. And I wouldn’t be a very happy camper.

Speaker 1 (32m 47s): I just, yeah. That, that drive doesn’t make me, that drive doesn’t make me happy either.

Speaker 2 (32m 51s): That drive makes me really crabby. I don’t have to do that anymore. I did in my past life. I don’t now.

Speaker 1 (32m 57s): Yeah. Makes

Speaker 2 (32m 59s): Sense. But it’s easy enough just to connect with people online. Yes. Because after three or four minutes your eyes are gonna be closed and you’re gonna be knocked out shortly thereafter. You’re gonna be in deep trance. So why pay all of the extra money for me to come to you and hypnotize you when it’s a whole lot less expensive and easier for both of us if we just do it online?

Speaker 1 (33m 23s): By the way, is it harder to get somebody under on, you know, virtually as opposed to in person?

Speaker 2 (33m 29s): Not at all. No. It really isn’t. I like to see my hypnotherapy clients live because I can perceive things that are going on with them by being in the room with them. Right. And I think I kind of have that sixth sense a little bit with online clients too, but as long as I’m able to watch them and watch how they react, right. I can, you know, just twist and Bob Weave punch, do the things I need to do just watching their face.

So now it’s, it’s easy enough to do.

Speaker 1 (34m 5s): So where does one find you?

Speaker 2 (34m 7s): Well, as you said in your most eloquent introduction, thank you Di

Speaker 1 (34m 12s): Doll. I tried.

Speaker 2 (34m 14s): That was great. I’m gonna steal it. Thank

Speaker 1 (34m 16s): You.

Speaker 2 (34m 17s): I have several websites. My primary website is erotic hypnosis for men.com. Now that one’s new, it’s only been active for about a year. Yeah. My other site is my hypnotic domain.com and that’s where I put all of my older recordings. They’re all $9 and 95 cents. There you go. So if people, anybody wants to go experiment, there’s some free sessions there too. So if you’ve got a curiosity about erotic hypnosis, but you’re not ready to spend any money, there’s many resources that you can go to.

Most erotic hypnotists have free sessions so that you can try them. Of course, we wanna hook you and get you back to buy more or to have online sessions. Yep. And then I have a fan site, which I just started not too long ago. Fan sites are a lot of work. Hmm. At loyal fans. Right. Dot com slash mistress Carroll. I also have a website, mistress carroll.com. But it is severely neglected. Hmm. And I just, I want to keep it active cuz I’ll, that’s where I keep all my chloroform recordings, because credit cards don’t like forced in talks.

And there’s, there’s, there’s only one place. I mean, you can’t even clips for sale Night flirt, none of those places. Right. Will let you do a chloroform recording, which can be a whole lot of fun for those who like them. Yeah. So Mr carol.com is where you find

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): That, that’s sort of thing. That’s, that’s our credit card companies are, they’re, yes. Very, very tight with that stuff.

Speaker 2 (35m 50s): And it’s very difficult for hypnotists in that world. Luckily, we still have a, a few resources, but, and you’ve gotta be really careful with what you offer and how you go about your approach.

Speaker 1 (36m 4s): Right.

Speaker 2 (36m 5s): You wanna keep your credit card processing companies happy. So I’m very, very careful with what I do. Yeah. And I stay within their guidelines because I would like to keep this up.

Speaker 1 (36m 17s): What, what advice would you have for someone who wants to get into erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (36m 23s): Well, as a listener, I would say figure out what it is you enjoy. There’s lots of resources on the internet. All you have to do is Google it, many, many good content creators and just go have some fun and, and go shopping and look around and try different things out. You want to use reputable content creators because as I said earlier, it is your subconscious mind. Right. And that’s not something you wanna share with just anybody.

Speaker 1 (36m 51s): Right.

Speaker 2 (36m 52s): You can’t use hypnosis to make you do what you don’t wanna do. But if your line is blurred, maybe you’ll open your wallet where you didn’t want to open your wallet. And as far as those who would like to create hypnosis, yes, there are a lot of good books on Amazon. There’s a lot of good books on hypnotherapy, which is also a good resource. Once you learn how to hypnotize, then you can take your skills and modify them and

Speaker 1 (37m 20s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (37m 20s): Learn the sexual side of it too. That’s a blast to play with your partner. Learning hypnosis and adding it to the things that you do intimately has a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (37m 32s): Yeah. Doesn’t hypnosis itself take some schooling?

Speaker 2 (37m 37s): It does, but it’s not something that you would think would take a lot of schooling because there are a lot of resources on the internet that you can go to and learn the basics. What is induction, what is a deepener, what is the, basically the guts of your session and the awakener. And learn different types of each of those and try them out on people.

Speaker 1 (38m 5s): Right.

Speaker 2 (38m 6s): Gain confidence, learn more, gain more confidence, learn more. And pretty soon you’re studying up a shop on the internet.

Speaker 1 (38m 13s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): Like somebody I know.

Speaker 1 (38m 17s): So what do you want others to know about erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (38m 21s): Erotic hypnosis can allow you to experience things that you might not be able to experience live due to finances, inhibitions. Maybe you’ve got a, a fetish or something, a fantasy role play that you’d really like to try. There’s a couple of things that I’m just not into like a bdl. The the adult baby stuff I’m not into are fdo. There are a lot of people out there doing a lot of different things that might connect with you.

You need to establish that rapport and trust that I spoke of earlier so that you do drift off into trance, which is just an altered state. Right. And allow yourself to let go and enjoy the experience. Because once you’re in your subconscious mind, it opens things to let you see and feel and experience on a totally unique level. So I can push buttons mentally and create physical sensations in you, but that’s just because you’re allowing those things to happen.

You want them to happen, therefore it is happening.

Speaker 1 (39m 30s): Okay. So the time has come that we’ve all been waiting for Mr. Scar. You’re gonna do a few minutes of trance with myself and our audience, so take it away.

Speaker 2 (39m 42s): All right. Well, here, you don’t have some music. Music, okay, sure. Have you ever been hypnotized before?

Speaker 1 (39m 48s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (39m 49s): Okay. Oh, how did, yeah, just my, was that too loud?

Speaker 1 (39m 56s): No, it’s fine.

Speaker 2 (39m 57s): All right. Here’s a little music with the little binaural beats in it to help you to drift off into trance. A little metronome.

Speaker 1 (40m 5s): So, no, I can’t hear it.

Speaker 2 (40m 7s): You can’t hear the music?

Speaker 1 (40m 8s): No.

Speaker 2 (40m 9s): Really? This damn thing. How’s that?

Speaker 1 (40m 13s): Yeah, now I hear it.

Speaker 2 (40m 14s): Okay, good. All right. When you’re ready to be hypnotized, just allow your eyes to close. And I want you to take a big, deep breath. As you breathe in, I want you to think about breathing in some calm energy. And as you breathe out, releasing any stress or tension that you might be holding within you. As I spoke earlier, hypnosis is increased relaxation, focused attention on the speaker, decreased awareness of everything around you and increased suggestibility.

So with most newcomers, I like to do a progressive relaxation induction. And what that is, is that I’m going to mention various parts of your body, and it’s like my voice is relaxing energy that just seeps into those spaces. Creating a deep sense of relaxation as your mind begins to clear an empty, just focusing on the sound of my voice, just enjoying how it feels to become deeply relaxed.

Now I want you to think about the top of your head, just the top, and just let my voice seep on end. Creating a sense of deepening relaxation just on the top, as it begins to spread down your head, down into your temples and your forehead, your nose, your cheek, your chins, your chins, your chin. Allowing your head to become very deeply relaxed, flowing down into the muscles of your neck.

Your neck has to hold up your heavy head all day long. Just let it relax. That’s it. Down into your shoulders that have to do all that heavy lifting all the time, just let them become loose, melty as it flows down into the big muscles of your arms, slowing down your arms into your elbows, your forearms, your wrists, your hands that’s gently flowing out the tips of your fingers. Now think about those melty shoulders again as that wonderful feeling just flows down into your upper back, your chest back and stomach down into your hips.

Feels so good to relax like this, to just let go. To just become loose and limp all over, down into the big muscles of your legs, knees, shins, and calves, ankles. As you let that wonderful sense of deep relaxation, just flow out the tips of your toes. Now your entire body becoming deeply relaxed as your mind slows down on its way to becoming clear and quiet, focused on my voice, listening to my voice.

Each word I say to you now, creating a deeper sense of relaxation and quietness inside of you. In fact, when I say the word deeper, it’s like a, just press a button inside of your mind that sweeps everything away from it. Your body continues to relax deeply, drifting deeper and deeper. It feels so good to let it all go.

It feels so good to become this deeply relaxed as you just listen to the sound of my voice. Nothing else you have to do. Just listen, breathe, and relax. Even deep performing. Now I’m going to count you down, down into TRAs. And it feels so good to be there because you’ll be even more deeply relaxed. I’m going to count from five down to zero. And when I say zero, you know you’ll be in a wonderful state of hypnosis, a warm, soft, gentle, trans feeling.

So God, bye. Relax more deeply with me now. Let go. Let go of everything and just enjoy becoming so deeply relaxed, listening to my voice. Nothing else you have to do. Four, drifting deeper and deeper feeling good. Because the deeper you fall, the better you feel. And you’re feeling really good. Now, let go more drift down with me now.

Three, each number taking you deeper down. And it feels so good to just surrender to it, to just follow me, follow my voice down deeper and deeper down. So relaxed, carefree, and empty, mind quiet. Two, even deeper now. Good. Just like that. Even deeper now, one feel so good to let it all go. And in just a moment, I’m going to say the number zero and snap my fingers and saylee and you’ll drift into trance.

And right afterward, I’ll wake you again. As I say, zero. And that’s it. That’s all there is. Drifting down, enjoying how it feels to just float on my voice. Nothing but my voice. Feels good to be quiet, empty. Nothing to do, nothing to think about. And in just a moment, I’m going to bring you out of trans. I’m going to count to three from one to three. And when I say three, you’ll come back out feeling refreshed, comfortable and calm.

Relaxed, curious about hypnosis, wanting to learn more. Ready, 1, 2, 3, all the way out now. Waking, waking, getting your mind back, feeling deeply relaxed, comfortable and calm, feeling God. Hi Bruce.

Speaker 1 (46m 16s): Hello.

Speaker 2 (46m 18s): So that’s that. You had to do it quickly, but that’s a little, yeah. A little introduction into That’s

Speaker 1 (46m 24s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (46m 25s): Hypnosis itself. Yeah. And of course, depending whether you’re going to the right side, left side, erotic, hypnosis, there’s many different techniques that you can use in different situations. And sometimes, like today, when I was working with a client, I combined them, but I’ve worked with him before that way. But I don’t typically do that with, with people. Like I said, I, I keep a, a wall between the two.

Speaker 1 (46m 51s): Yeah, yeah, man, I’m, man, I’m relaxed.

Speaker 2 (46m 56s): Are you good?

Speaker 1 (46m 58s): My like I, my head just kind of kept dropping and everything, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (47m 2s): Yes. That’s why I always recommend either lying down or if you’re in a chair, a chair that’s high enough in the back so you can at least lean your head back.

Speaker 1 (47m 10s): Yeah, I probably should have done that. I probably should have done

Speaker 2 (47m 12s): That. Yeah. It’s deep transl. It could give you an neck a next time. My client today, he uses an airplane pillow, which is a great idea to keep your husband flopping around. Exactly. Because you don’t want that to bring you out.

Speaker 1 (47m 24s): No, exactly. Exactly. That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (47m 27s): Oh, I’m glad you

Speaker 1 (47m 28s): Enjoyed it. Yeah. Mr. Scar, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll have a chance to do this again soon. Oh,

Speaker 0 (47m 37s): I

Speaker 1 (47m 37s): Hope so. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about new ways to monetize your site. Next, eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time. Check services you pay for, like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options. Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch, plus got higher quality hosting in the process.

Again, you can ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost effectively along with this. Make your profit and loss statements show more profit. Increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that. Make sure your p and l statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal expenses you put in. This will cost you money when you sell. It may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you if you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement.

Remember, every dollar in profit increases the value of your website as much as three to four times. This is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars more on their sale just by adjusting the p and l statement to reflect actual business expenses as opposed to a bunch of bs. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Brian Sloan of Auto Blow.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Mistress Carol. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with adult performer Sasha BraBuster.
Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point 0 at adultsitebroker.com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog.

1 (52s):
Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details. Add to sign up. Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Tube site that has full length B D S M videos for free and it’s just been reduced in price.

1 (1m 36s):
The site is billed on WordPress and is four years old. They’re currently the only free tube providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user request and user provided content after moderation. The owner started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it, and he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular on Reddit and Business Sword. The owners decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry. The site’s visitors come back again and again due to its uniqueness. They have over 13,000 premium videos and most of them are 30 minutes or longer.

1 (2m 16s):
With more videos and categories, site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There is no advertising being done for the site. All the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic now only 235,000 US dollars. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Adult performers, Sasha Bra Buster. Sasha, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

2 (2m 49s):
Well, thank you for having me. It is a pleasure for me being here. I thank everybody.

1 (2m 54s):
Hey, I thank you for taking the time so late in your evening in Detroit City. So Sasha Bra Buster is a natural large chested exotic Ebony adult film actress. Try saying that three times. Cover Girl Centerfold, former radio host and double jointed contortionist. Can’t wait to hear about that. Her fans love her acrobatic pole performances and belly dancing stage shows. This former B B W took a short sabbatical and is ready to give her fans what they’ve been begging for. The new Sasha Bra Buster. Sasha, what made you initially decide to work as a performer in the adult industry?

2 (3m 34s):
Well, years ago I was a call girl and a gentleman saw me on a Call Girl website. He called me up and says, Hey, you got what the girls that I see have, I think you need to reach out. Gave me some phone numbers. Two of ’em told me to go kick Brocks. They said I was competition. I was like, say what would end up happening? I says, oh, thank you, thank you very much. And then Africa Sex says, you know what? I, I can help you out. She referred me to Peter Wall at Score Magazine and they told me, if you have your pictures airbrush, we’re gonna tell you to go kick rocks.

2 (4m 15s):
If you’re real, we’re gonna go ahead and give you a chance. I took pictures, they flew me within 48 hours and paid me thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars and had me there a week. The rest was history and, and I had never did movies before. And they says, you’re gonna do magazines and you’re gonna do movies. And I was like, what? I, I just, I don’t do that stuff. Yes, you’re gonna do that stuff. And they flew a guy from California and was like, you’re gonna get naked. You’re gonna do this. And it was a big warehouse, bigger than Sam’s Club. And they’re telling me what I’m gonna do and the guy’s looking at me cuz I ev evidently. And obviously he never saw boobs that big and they were heavy and I’m scared of him.

2 (4m 59s):
He’s scared of me and he’s looking like yuck because he’s like all this, all this meat, you know? And so he’s like trying to figure this out and they were heavy. And so he’s looking at Peter like, why did you put me with this woman, this monstrosity of a woman and all this meat, you know? And so Peter says, Sasha, show him what you do while you’re here. When I started putting toes above my head, behind my neck, in my ear, he was like, let me make a phone call. And so he started calling people and friends and companies and California. The rest was history. And I started flying to California and I started getting shoots and, and I was like, whoa.

2 (5m 44s):
And the rest was history. And I started shooting and it was so funny cuz we shot all day long. They scored had me shoot multiple, multiple films and they was like, pick her up now at that time I’m 311 pounds. He was like, say what? They were like, pick her up. New Power driver. And I didn’t know what power driver was. It was just

1 (6m 10s):
So funny. Really good way to hurt you smell. So the, it was Score Magazine, now it’s Score Group, right?

2 (6m 15s):
It was Score group, but I was shooting for XL Voluptuous and stuff like that. And it was, it was fun cuz it was a all day shoot for like a whole week. I’m just shooting, shooting. And we ended up being the best of friends. But at first he was like, what did you, he thought score was on crack or something, you know? But we ended up being the best of friends.

1 (6m 34s):
So you just mentioned putting your toes in your ears kinda interesting. Yes. You’ve, you’re a double joint contortionist. Is that something that helps you when you’re doing porn scenes?

2 (6m 46s):
Yes, I do. And implement that in all of the positions.

1 (6m 50s):
Okay, tell me about

2 (6m 51s):
That. In my cold.

1 (6m 52s):
Yeah. Well gimme some examples of the contortionist abilities and how that helps with your scenes.

2 (6m 59s):
Sure. Not at all. Well, when I’m doing the doggy style, I’m wrapping my legs around the gentleman’s neck. And when I’m doing, when we’re on the bed and I have like the brass, you know, headboards, I’m putting my legs over and under the headboard around the guy’s necks and then put in his ears and my ears like that. Those are examples of some of the things they’ll, well they used to, you know, tape when I was doing the, you know, different positions when I was big girl. Now that I weight, I’m even more flexible. So I’ll be doing legs behind my back one before one back.

2 (7m 39s):
And so some different things I’ll be bringing to the table now is when I do the scenes I’ll be doing the splits on the guy while I lick his ankle or something like that.

1 (7m 51s):
My God. When did you find out you were a contort? You were a double jointed Contortionist. How did, how did you, how did that come about?

2 (7m 58s):
Well, I, well see, I grew up always being able to be flexible with my legs. See I’m only flexible with, with my legs. Okay. And then I started pole dancing right before I went on my sabbatical, my health sabbatical. Right. I started doing that and belly dancing. I’ve been doing that for years. But I never implemented the belly dancing into the movies. I just did. Why is that Contortionist stuff? Hmm.

1 (8m 22s):
You should,

2 (8m 23s):
Yeah, I’m gonna be doing all of that now. And see I never did, you know, boy, boy scenes, you know, boy, boy girl scenes I’m gonna be doing and I never did any of the, you know, B D S M stuff. I’ll be doing all of that now. So my audience is gonna have a treat. My viewers is gonna definitely have a treat this time that they didn’t have before.

1 (8m 45s):
Fantastic. So from our chats prior to the interview, I’ve come to Discovery. You’re a baseball fan, Detroit Tigers to be exact, of course. I’m not even gonna mention that. My San Francisco giant swept the Tigers four straight in the World Series in 2012. Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t, I didn’t mention it.

2 (9m 3s):

1 (9m 3s):
Yeah. Oh, sorry. Gosh, I just, that just slipped out. So when did you start watching baseball and what other sports do you like?

2 (9m 13s):
Well, when I was a little girl, my great-grandfather would have all of us, you know, around the radio and we would be drinking lemonade and eating skins and we would be listening to the game. That’s how we were Ernie

1 (9m 27s):
Harwell, right?

2 (9m 29s):
Yes. You know, it, you, you know it.

1 (9m 32s):
Ernie Ernie was a, Ernie was an old friend, actually

2 (9m 36s):
Get Oh, are you serious?

1 (9m 37s):
Yes, no. Oh yeah, no, no. I knew, I knew Ernie well from my, my Sportscasting days. So yeah, I knew, I knew Ernie from a, in fact, I met Ernie when I was, shit, I, I met Ernie when I was like 17 or 18 years old. So Yeah, I, I knew Ernie for, for years until he unfortunately passed. But go ahead, I’m sorry.

2 (9m 58s):
Yeah, cuz he was such a nice guy. I heard nothing but nice. Amazing guy. And when he died, amazing man. Oh God. It was like a, it was like a national holiday run. They celebrated and they mourned and you know, we just, when they won, you know, Kirk Gibson and Oh my God. Yep. Everybody just like, it was like a holiday around here and I know I like the Pistons, of course Isaiah Thomas, you know.

1 (10m 22s):

2 (10m 23s):
And John Sally and when they won, you know, sure. Just, it was just nice. I like ba you know, basketball and the lions and I don’t follow, like I used to the Red Wings and I met a lot of ’em, you know, they’re good friends, but I don’t get into it like I used to, but you know, I just like to support my guys. And then when Bill Margo was living, he used to want to get, have me, he would ask me would I get him a jersey, a lion’s jersey. He was like, God bless me, they keep losing. And before he died I was looking to get him a jersey his size and he was like, don’t get it kiddo.

2 (11m 3s):
Don’t get it. And I was like, I’m gonna get your damn size. And he died before I can get him the jersey because he was born here in Lansing, Michigan. Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, you know, I I I was where you are at Kiddo. I’m like, yeah. But he was like, don’t do it. I’m like, I’m gonna surprise you with I’m gonna get you a outfit, a Lion’s outfit. He was like, they can’t damn losing. No, but they did present him with a teddy bear before he died, you know, but,

1 (11m 30s):
Well it’s a nice, it’s a nice jersey anyway, I like the color, so. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a’s a good looking jersey. Hopefully they will, they will be better. We were talking about that before the show, that there’s Yeah, there’s hope. There’s hope in Lion Land, so we’ll,

2 (11m 46s):
We’ll speak. Isn’t that true at, that is

1 (11m 48s):
So true. Stadium’s nice. I got a chance to walk by it. So at least the stadium’s nice. So how did being a B B W and also a woman of color make it difficult earlier in your career in porn?

2 (12m 2s):
Well, when I first started it was just starting to open up and that was a new thing being a B B W. And when I first got to Hollywood, I conferred with A B B W named Cindy Williams. And I, I, cause I called a film company and he referred me to a, a lady who he was shooting called, it was a director, I can’t remember his name. And he was saying he shot a lot of Cindy Williamson. It was a good friend of his, I cannot remember her name cause it was so long. We were talking like 2004 ok. And I called, he said, he gave me her name. He says, get some advice from her. And so she was like, it’s not gonna work.

2 (12m 43s):
And she shot with Arrow Smith and his videos and she shot for a lot of musicians and rock stars. And when she tried to switch over to porn, they treated her so crappy. She was very bitter. She was very, very upset. And she says it’s not gonna work. And she says, you will shoot maybe twice or once a year. And she shot a video for David Lee Roth and she had a gang of dws. It did not work. And so she tried to make it, but it, it wasn’t gonna, it wasn’t happening.

2 (13m 27s):
So when I went to go shoot, they were like, what are you, you know, what are we gonna shoot you for? And why? And at the time it wasn’t called Gold Seeds, it was called meet and greets. And they were like, oh, you look different. You know, you’re cute, you’re exotic and why do we wanna shoot you? And so it was the director of the producer and the owner of the company. And I had to get naked and show them why they needed to pay me. So when I got naked and I started what? Putting toes in in ears and they were like, oh, you are so hired, you know Exactly. They hired me and told me they’re gonna pay me top pay.

2 (14m 8s):
So wherever I went, I got paid top dollar and I wasn’t well received because at that time this was like so new and it was a bunch of skinny gals and they were like, oh, oh yuck. And she’s a pig and she’s nasty. And oh, look at that walrus. And, and then it word got out even though they told me, you know, the owner don’t tell anybody what you’re getting paid and you’re getting paid more than the other girls we’re gonna, we heard she’s getting paid more than us. She’s from Detroit. And why are they paying that that big? And you know, how they tell you to show up at eight is your call time and you know, right. Another shoot is 10 and another shoot is 12.

2 (14m 49s):
And they all showed up for me, me cuz I’m the new girl. And I’m like, Ugh. And I’m embarrassed cause you know, I’m bigger than them. And they’re like whispering and talking and everybody’s looking at the new girl. And so I’m like, oh my God, I’m so embarrassed. You know? And they’re whispering and they’re talking nasty to me. And I was like, oh. So then when they were like, okay, Sasha, you know, I’m outta makeup, they’re done with the makeup, you’re gonna go over there and you’re gonna do this. And, and so then the male talent would show and he’s looking at, oh, these big boobs, I gotta lift this. And I wasn’t well received because they’re used to this silicone and these little gals. And you know, silicone is weightless right here. I’m wearing a, my breast was a 48 L cup that’s heavy.

2 (15m 33s):
So my breasts at the time, each boob was 25 pounds, we’re talking 50 pounds, my boobs. Right? Oh my God. So he’s looking at, I gotta deal with her for two and a half hours, you know, at that time, this seems two and a half, three hours, I gotta pick this up for three hours. So the guy was like, ah. So he’s like, so the director’s like, Sasha, you gonna come over here and do Bella B for this scene? So the girls are like, look at this now how, let’s see why she’s getting paid more than I’m, I’m hearing this and it’s messing me up in the head when I walk over, do the scene, they’re like, drop the road. Now I gotta walk naked in front of these tricks. Right? This is what I’m thinking. Right. So when they says, okay, start, I’m doing my double joint thing.

2 (16m 15s):
Everything was quiet. All has on me. I love it. They were like, let me have your autograph. Can I have your autograph? I love it. I got my respect right then and there. And then I started getting all these roles and I started doing, I started shooting like a slim person. I started getting four and five scenes a day. And then what they weren’t supposed to do, a lot of the gaffers, the key grips. Excuse me, can you come over here for a minute? Sure. I wasn’t conceded, I wasn’t cocky. I was very, very down to, I, I was cool that everybody I treated, everybody was strict. They were like, you’re really nice.

2 (16m 56s):
Sure. Because you know how a lot of talent is, you know, I’m, I’m thinking I’m this stuff, you know, I was so cool. And they were like, you’re really easy to work with. So I would get six or seven numbers. And they were like, my friend is getting a new company and these are big companies today. And they were like, would you mind, you know, talking to him, they are opening up a new agency in the company. Would you like to shoot? So I’m shooting, you know, for legit companies, four and five scenes, the new opening companies who, this is my guy here, his name is Johns, you know, I’m shooting five, so I’m shooting 10 scenes a day and that’s it. Got one. And then I’m doing Bill, my goal has me working for him and that and the rest was history.

2 (17m 38s):
So then I started shooting different magazines. And so it was some, some movie companies and it was some magazine companies who says, look straight out we don’t do women of color. We don’t, we only shoot Caucasian, boom, that’s it. I’m like, okay. And then they’d look at me and go, well come over here. Okay. So what they would do, they would lighten the picture up and then call me a Latino. Even though I am multiracial, you know, German, Latino, African, African-American, Irish in Indian. They would Wow. Paint the pic. They would, they would go ahead and they would lighten the picture up and they would says, you know, we only shoot Latin, but we’re gonna put you in this.

2 (18m 19s):
And I’m like, oh. So I made history there and then they put me interesting in the history books. I was like, okay. So I made history there too. And they paid me very, very well. And I was like, okay. And then Pat Rasine started working with me on the magazine. Yeah.

1 (18m 36s):
Wow. What’s your best memory and what’s your worst memory from scenes you’ve shot?

2 (18m 43s):
My best memory was working with Dave Harden. That was, I thought I was gonna die, but it was, it was fun. We got along very well and it was a fast and a very fun and shoot, I never knew what to expect. We were all over the, the mansion shooting and he was very nice and he, he was, he kept calling me Queen Latifah, right? And I was like, what? And Ron Sullivan, the late Ron Sullivan is who had him shoot with me for a movie. And that was very fun. He just was like, I’ll take the lead on this.

2 (19m 23s):
I says, okay. And I never knew where I was at. I was upside down. I was on the fireplace and I just was like, I thought, you know, he was, he grabbed the leg. I, I just didn’t know where I was gonna be at. But it was fun. He was very, very funny. And then the worst one, it was a gentleman that Xavier had hired from Xavier films in Florida. And the gentleman wanted me to do a, a pissing scene. And I’m like, what? And he’s like, piss. And I’m like, you want me to what now? And, and he wanted me to do a pissing scene in the shower, but that wasn’t what the film entail.

2 (20m 7s):
He, he just sprung that on me and I’m like, I’m, I was supposed to just, we was supposed to just do a straight boy girl scene. It was solo masturbation in the boy girl. But he wanted me to, I guess this was something new where they wanted the girls to start peeing. This ping thing was something new. Yeah, he was really upset, which they was supposed to pay extra for the ping, but he wanted to get ping for free. And so he want to bring like six two liters of water. And he’s like hollering and he is hollering at me and trying to pin me up in the corner. This director, I cannot remember his name and he’s trying to make, make me piss in this shower.

2 (20m 51s):
That was the worst, horrible thing. And so when this guy, the, the guy that was in the movie name was Reno, he’s the talent, he was like back up off of her, you know, he had to get the director to leave me alone cuz this guy is trying to make me drink all these bottles of water, the piss. And I, I’m like, piss what? Stand up and piss in the shower. And I thought, so that was the worst, the very, you know, I never had anything like that.

1 (21m 15s):
Yeah. Not cool, right? Not cool.

2 (21m 19s):
Yeah. And he was trying to get me the piss. We can go and stay in a place you have there in California called, he wanted to go stay in Big Beaver for the weekend. So he wanted me to piss so he can go to Big Beaver.

1 (21m 32s):
Big Beaver. Ah yes. There’s some double meanings there. Okay. So you, you mentioned you took a break because of health and what was going on with you health-wise?

2 (21m 43s):
What I would do was I would leave and then come back to take a break and every other year I would come back dirty. Bob was like, yeah, don’t burn yourself out. You know, go take a break, come back, go. And every other year I was known to go and come back cuz I never wanted to burn myself out. Like a lot of people burned themselves out. Yeah. And this one particular time, and this was like oh seven cuz I was there in oh six, i, I left, I’m gonna come back in. Oh, in oh eight, that’s what I’m thinking. I think. So that the last time I was there I think was oh eight. I’m gonna come back. I was a registered nurse in my private life. Now, like I said, I’m 311 pounds and I’m taking care of a patient.

2 (22m 23s):
She was 300 some pounds, so what’s that? 600 pounds. She grabbed me thinking she was gonna fall. She fell on top of me.

1 (22m 31s):

2 (22m 32s):
Fuck. It was snap, crackle, pop Bruce. Wow. When it was snap, crackle pop, she pissed on me.

1 (22m 39s):

2 (22m 40s):
Jesus. I was like, whoa. When she snapped Cracker Pop, that was the end of your Sasha. And I was what

1 (22m 47s):
Were, what were, what were your injuries?

2 (22m 50s):
She almost broke my back. She broke my knees and oh no, it was, I was strained and sprained and everything. And when they got through me, they were like, you will never do nothing again. She’s crying and she’s upset that she hurt me. And behind that, I am gonna be honest behind that, doctors was like, you in bad shape. So I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I said, no, no. They was like, no, no, no, you you, they says you got injured really bad. So they took me off of work and they says I was in such bad shape I could not return to the nursing profession.

2 (23m 33s):
And I was teaching to anatomy physiology at the college. So I go, okay, when I heal, you know I’m gonna go back. They were like, no, no, no, no. So I did suffer a lot of the morbidly obese, you know, different health challenges and I got worse and worse. And so sitting and trying to convalesce and heal, I’m getting bigger and bigger. I’m eating and eating, you know? Yes. And I start, you know, diabetes, you know when you get big and you eat diabetes Sure. And, and neuropathy and hypertension and sleep apnea and everything that comes with being bigger, bigger, bigger. And so I had got so big I couldn’t walk.

2 (24m 14s):
I was too big for my frame. I ended up being on a walker and oh shit, arthritis set in and oh Jesus, the heart got bad. And so my doctors was like, Hey, you know, this is not cool. You’re going down and downward slope. And I got conceited cuz I’m sitting, but I’m getting more boyfriends than the Lord allow. And I’m like, well I’m still, you know, doing good and I’m drawing boyfriends. And the doctors was like, you are not, this is not cool. So I had got so sick, I had got pulmonary embolisms at that time. Oh. I wasn’t able to fly. So at the time, directors and producers are calling me to come back. They need me to start shooting.

2 (24m 55s):
But the doctor says I wasn’t healthy enough to get on a plane cuz of the blood clot. So. Right. I I, my health was deteriorated more and more and more. So they were like, they all surrounded me, neurologist, cardiologist. They were like, look it, you have to lose like a hundred pounds asap. You’re not gonna see Christmas 2010. Serious. I’m thinking it’s a joke. I’m not taking it serious now.

1 (25m 18s):
How old were you? How old were you at this point?

2 (25m 21s):
I, I was like, I was pretty young. I, I wasn’t old or anything. I was pretty young. I just was like living off the seat of my pants. I was pretty young. Yeah. I just was eating up. I just was sitting and eating up the world. Cause I was like, just convalescent. And they told my mom, you had

1 (25m 39s):
Nothing. You had nothing else you could do. Sure.

2 (25m 41s):
Nothing, nothing, nothing to do. But just sitting convalescent. Right. And they said, you’re clogging up your arteries and you’re not taking this serious. So they knew I was close to my mom. My mom was my life, you know? Right. And they were like, look, tell your daughter quit playing. Her heart’s getting congested. And so when she started crying, going, look, this is my only daughter in the world. She, she was like, stop playing with your life. If I lose you, I lose everything. And I just, I just pictured her over my casket, you know, at a funeral. And I’m like, oh, this is serious. So I tried Weight Watchers didn’t, didn’t do anything. I, and then I tried medical weight loss. They gave me some herbal speed and sped my heart up and I’m in the hospital. So they says, you know what, you need to lose this 20 pounds, 19 that’s not gonna do it.

2 (26m 25s):
And so I was like, oh, stop a jaw’s line. You know, let me get two double orders of ribs and chicken. I just wasn’t keeping serious. So they says, yeah, listen, you are not gonna see Christmas 2010. So I says, what do you want me to do? So they says bariatric surgery. Right. That’s the only thing that’s gonna make you lose a hundred pounds if you, so I did the, the bariatric and they says, okay, you’re three 11, you’re gonna get to be about 1 25 when the dust settles, you’ll be about a size six. So Wow. I did it and I was like, I’m not gonna be a size six, I’m not gonna move be so at the end of the trail I end up being a size zero.

2 (27m 9s):
Right. Oh no, that’s

1 (27m 11s):
What I’m now Wow.

2 (27m 13s):
So wait,

1 (27m 14s):

2 (27m 14s):
At that time I’m wearing a size 26, 28 dress. A size 11 shoe. And I was a, a 48, you know, around circumference around the back of 48. And I’m a L cup. So when the dust settled here, I, my shoe size went from 11 down to a eight. And then I went in a 26, 28 dress down to a zero. And then instead of a 48 L cup, I’m a 36 in cups.

1 (27m 45s):
That’s still pretty darn, that’s still pretty darn big.

2 (27m 48s):
Right. I’m a, I’m a, I’m a bigger cup. So instead of a L I’m a N cause I’m a small frame, but the boobs is bigger cause I’m a small frame, but I never lost the boobs. Right. So then I’m trying to do my comeback in 14. So I come back, I’m like, Hey, I’m Sasha. So people are not recognizing me cuz I’m a small, my face is small. Right, right. So I just had clothes on. I didn’t have a bikini. So I’m like, hi, I’m Sasha. My fan base was like, you’re who? I’m Sasha. They’re like, you’re confused dear crack honey, crack heels honey. I’m like,

1 (28m 24s):
Exactly, exactly. I’m like, I’m

2 (28m 26s):
Sasha. So they, they, so they didn’t see that I had the baboons so they were like, cause all my pictures had, I had clothes on. So they’re like, you think you’re who honey? I’m like, no, no, I’m Sasha Bra buster and I’m back. My fans was like thinking I was trying to be conceited and oh you’re, you’re trying to be vain, you’re hating on the bbb. W I said No, no. Why did you lose the weight? And I didn’t say, you know why ever. I’m like, no I had to just lose the weight and oh we are not liking you. So I had a lot of hate mail and oh we don’t like you that way and you look nasty and you look like a alcoholic and you’re so then a couple of my fences, you know what they think that you just lost the boobies and you just, just a up for you know what you need.

2 (29m 11s):
I says, what? Show them that you’re Sasha, you just a small frame Sasha that Sasha’s back do a, do a bikini. So then I did the micro bikini to show them that I was Sasha when I showed them what I was made of. And I had the micro bikini, I got my love back. But it’s still a

1 (29m 31s):
Few just had to, you just had to show ’em the titties again.

2 (29m 35s):
Yeah. And but it’s still some, you know what 95% of my fan base is like, oh yeah, she’s back. But they’re like, oh we like you better now than we did before.

1 (29m 47s):
Yeah. There’s always, there’s always gonna be some who will prefer the b

2 (29m 51s):
W Oh you know, we really like you better, you know, five percent’s like we really like you better as A B B W. But here’s the thing, this is the weird thing I have. It’s, it’s so weird like cuz you know how I’ve been in the business forever but I still have like kids like 20. Oh we see you’re a new person that just got in the game. I’m like son. Yeah. I says, yo daddy know me. Okay. I’m, you’re the second generation who’s discovering me And they’re like, oh you’re not new. I’m like no you are new.

1 (30m 22s):
That’s way cool. That’s way cool. That’s good. How does that, how does that feel?

2 (30m 27s):
It’s funny cuz I have some that will email me and go, my daddy has your magazines up on his bed. I was sneaking when I was a kid looking at you. So I’m on my second generation of like fans and then I have some who goes, are you new who just like discovering me? Like totally. That’s

1 (30m 45s):
Gotta be really with but that’s gotta be really cool. Right.

2 (30m 48s):
Well the other thing about it is I have, the other thing that I don’t like about it is I’m more this weird to me I’m more popular now as skinny Sasha than I ever was. This weird male is B B W Sasha. I have more stalkers than I had when I was active. So I’m like, I haven’t been in a movie since oh eight and here it is what, 2022. But I have like tons and tons and tons of like, you know, fan mail going in my pill box in my email and instead of being like mainstream it’s more and this kind of like weirds me out.

2 (31m 28s):
It’s more celebrities. Yeah. Professional athletes. Wow. CEOs of like corporations, dignitaries, religious icons. Then the norm. And I’m like, they’re like, do you know who I am? And I’m like, what? And they’re like Please we are the re we want you to do a comeback cause we wanna see you.

1 (31m 48s):
So, so it’s, I would imagine, I would imagine Bill Clinton’s gotta be one of ’em, right?

2 (31m 52s):
No, but it’s a lot of monks and it’s a lot of television pastors and I’m like, say what dude? Of course, of course. It’s weird me out.

1 (31m 60s):
Yes. Yeah. They’re the same ones who are, who are anti-porn probably in their,

2 (32m 5s):
In in they are. And and it’s so funny cuz I’m looking at these senators who are on TV saying this, but they’re emailing me saying like they, oh would you sign my magazine? And I’m like,

1 (32m 14s):
Come on, call ’em out Sasha call ’em out. I,

2 (32m 17s):
I want but I can’t do that.

1 (32m 19s):
I understand. I understand. Yes, yes. They’re powerful people. How much weight did you lose altogether?

2 (32m 26s):
232 pounds.

1 (32m 28s):
My dear God. So talk about that process now you said you had the surgery, which I guess makes your, your stomach smaller, right? I mean that’s the diet, that’s

2 (32m 40s):
The idea. Yeah. My stomach is the size of an egg and a lot of my friends go, do you have that hanging globs of gobs a gooey fat? I says, no I don’t. Well you know, you don’t have that. I says I, I had a, I had a what you call a ectomy, but the surgeon snuck and did a tummy tuck along with the ectomy and a pul is a fancy dancing word of saying they go cut off stomach fat horizontally. But I didn’t really have any because I did crunches and stuff while I was losing the weight. And if, if they said, why don’t you have the hanging skin because I lift weight you weight while I was losing.

1 (33m 17s):
Right. You worked out. That’s cool. That’s cool. So talk about the process of losing that much weight. It, it had to be difficult besides the surgery. How did you do it?

2 (33m 30s):
Well people look at me and go, you can never tell you was big. You know when you look at my pictures and you see me in the bikini and they go, people who lose that much, they have, you could tell they were big cuz they have like the hanging flags under their arms. The reason why you can’t tell I was ever big, if you look at my pictures is because when I was in the process of losing the weight, cuz they don’t let you start working out until like eight weeks after the bariatric is because, and I had the most invasive, which is the gastric room wide. That’s what I had. The reason you can’t, how I looked, the way I look is I started lifting weights and I was doing the ankle weights and the the dumbbells.

2 (34m 10s):
Okay. And then I never stopped. So even though I had the surgery in 2010, to this day I work out seven days a week if you like. Do you think you the Sasha? Wow. I work out. I you said, what do you do to stay in that shape? Because, well I know I got to be naked Bruce on the film and I don’t wanna make nobody throw up and vomit and throw no tomatoes at me. So I lift weights. Amen. I, I jog, I run, I belly dance, I do pole dancing. I bicycle, I do to the resistance band, I do the resistance ball, I do Pilates, I do isometrics. Calisthenics. Okay. I’m doing, you know, sex, sex, sex, sex.

2 (34m 52s):
I do the crunches exercise, right. Like the tummy tuck. And so with all of that and I’m doing stretches and stuff like that too. And so when I’m doing that, I do the stretches and the calisthenics and stuff. I’m doing morning Pilates seven days a week and I do a bedtime exercises seven days a week. And then the older you get, you know you have to do more cuz everything, you know gravity as you get older. And then when you lose that much weight you have to do, you have to lift weights and tone and do strength training in resistance band because if you don’t do strength training when you lose that amount of weight, you know, you, you would end up having hanging skin.

2 (35m 36s):
So yes, I do a lot of walking and then I didn’t wanna do traditional, oh just go ahead and walk. So I wanted something different to make me wanna keep in shape. So what I did is I chose to do pole dancing and then I took pole classes. And then another thing I did, when you do have the gastro, why you have a, you go through a process on Bruce called you are male absorbent, which means they bypass, do a bypass of your intestines. So the upper portion of my intestines is not being used, which processes and digest fats and sugars so I don’t digest and process and use vitamins, minerals, nutrients and supplements.

2 (36m 22s):
So I’m malabsorbing so I don’t absorb it. So I have to take and buy from cvs, vitamin D, vitamin B, vitamin C, calcium. That’s interesting. Woman’s one a day so right. And vitamin B. So I, so if you, you drink milk, you’ll get vitamin D. If I drink milk, I don’t get anything so I can in the hospital. So I have to buy vitamin D now. So, which means I have to take all of this every day, seven days a week, 365, which means it makes me the bionic woman. So you, you’re like, oh you gotta take all these vitamins. What does that mean? I have to do, the doctors write me a script and this is all bariatric related.

2 (37m 4s):
The doctors have to write me a script to do vitamin B12 twice a month because this, by me not using that part of my intestines, it pulls it away. So sure I have extra strength that a regular adult doesn’t have. So I have to take this extra stuff so it gives me extra energy. That’s what makes me so strong so I can live weights almost like a guy. I’m strong like a guy almost. So my libido is like I, I went through adolescence. I, I went through adolescence with the surgery. So my body doesn’t think I am an adult. My body thinks I’m a teenager.

2 (37m 46s):
So that’s why my body looks so young. So my libido is like 13 year old. So, so

1 (37m 54s):
You’ve, so, so you were, were you able to reverse all those, all those health issues?

2 (38m 1s):
Yeah, everything left except my asthma. I have asthma and I have seizures still, but Oh wow. No more hypertension that left. No more sleep apnea, no more diabetes, no more heart problems. Everything left. The only thing that kinda like made me met and they didn’t tell me till I had my bariatric, they were like sage, your body got confused with the hormones cause it doesn’t know about being small since you were a teenager. So I’m like, yeah, your body went through adolescence again. So the age you started your monthly cycle, I’m like, I was nine when you had your month, when you had your bariatric, you went back to nine.

2 (38m 42s):
So yes, I had, I redeveloped again. So that’s why my boobs started growing and I’m a handcuff you my butt and I’m like, oh. So when I started taking the, the nutrients supplements, vitamins, I started having a craving for guys like, you know, adolescents. So like I, I don’t, you know, okay, how can I say this gently? When I, yes ma’am was on the date naps, I, you know, a guy like my age, you know, they, they can’t hang, you know, so only guys can hang is like a 22 or 23 year old. So like I amen. You know, remember I said remember I said the bionic woman with the nutrients, mineral supplements of protein powder, I my libido, I can go like 12 hours straight with no no break.

2 (39m 30s):
It’s, you know, it is the pills, you know the vitamins and minerals and that’s the way I’m built you. You know, you understand right?

1 (39m 37s):
Yeah. Yes, yes. It’s per perfect perfect for the industry, that’s for sure. Yeah. So that’s something

2 (39m 43s):
That’s the way the, the bariatrics make makes you like that that gastric one. Why

1 (39m 47s):
Exactly. Wow. So why did you decide to come back to the industry?

2 (39m 52s):
Because I got so many emails. They were saying how they didn’t like the quality of work that was out there. They were saying it’s so much missing and they hadn’t seen girls with my quality of work. I’m like, what? And they were saying, we watch your stuff like 18 times a day and they don’t. I’m like, what? And, and they were saying they wanna see me do my action as skinny Sacha. And I’m like, oh can you still do your flexibility? I said, oh, I’m more flexible. And I was like, okay. So that’s what made me says oh, they kept emailing over and over and sending this stuff to my pill box. So I says I’ll do this. And I kept getting a lot of runaround. That’s what made me go to Corland. Cuz she says, I’m a PR person, I can get you what you, what you need.

2 (40m 35s):
And when I was trying to do this comeback, I kept getting the runaround and empty promises and cordless says I can get you back. And I didn’t know the game had changed and companies had shut down and people have retired and died. Oh and so

1 (40m 52s):

2 (40m 52s):
Time and now I’m gonna be

1 (40m 53s):
Long time in this industry. I mean the life cycle in this industry is very short.

2 (40m 58s):
Yes it is.

1 (40m 60s):
What other changes have you noticed in the industry since returning? And you mentioned the challenges that you got the run around. Have there been any others?

2 (41m 10s):
You know what, I’m gonna tell you something that’s so weird to me when I was last doing this, and I know I’m going talk like a fossil. But your notoriety, your professionalism was on your merit. You know how good you did, how professional you know your job, you know what you were known for, your skill, your professional. Sure. Now what they say is how famous or how popular you make it in a movie is, how many Twitter followers do you have? I’m like, yep, excuse me. How many friends do you have is, and I’m like, wait a minute.

2 (41m 54s):
You know, how many votes do you have in if you’re gonna be in the avn? So to me that is something that looks like a challenge because if you’re not into social media today, and they, to me it’s not about a skill or who you, it’s like you are popular based on your followers and if you are an influencer, not your ability, your talent, right? It’s if you, you know how many followers you have and if you have enough followers or friend request or whatever, that’s how you get your, how can I say your filming credits.

2 (42m 43s):
And I thought what? And so you can be a person that can’t act a lick, but if you have 200,000 followers, you can be known as this phenomenal, hey, you know, you can be mill for the year. And I thought, oh, what happened to the talent? What happened to the skill? Yeah. And I, I’m not understanding, but that’s the new way they’re telling me how it goes. And I’m like, oh cuz in my day, if you did a good job and you sold movies, you know, so they told me when I, when I stepped in a movie company and I did a movie, I sold no less than 150,000 movies.

2 (43m 30s):
Okay. And, and but they said no, that that doesn’t work anymore. It’s about who, how many followers you have. And I’m talking, oh okay.

1 (43m 39s):
Social media has, social media has taken over the world, let’s

2 (43m 43s):
Face it. And that’s the way things

1 (43m 44s):
Go. Good and bad. Good and bad.

2 (43m 46s):
You have to be on the computer. That’s what they tell me now. So I’m like, okay. So you have to be able to talk to your fans where, you know, before you would, you would do a email or hello and how you doing fan mail? No. You have to have so many, so many minutes a day that’s based on, because if you’re not in their, in in your public’s face every day they say they forget you. So it’s not about, again, your work. They want you to give them their attention. That’s different than, you know, you didn’t have to do that before.

1 (44m 27s):
Right, right. So, so Sasha, how long do you see yourself doing porn and what do you still wanna accomplish?

2 (44m 35s):
I basically would like to let my fans see me. Like they said they wanna see me do Sasha work and see if I still have the it factor. And I says, yeah, it’s, I didn’t slow down. Matter of fact, I’m healthier than I was before. I enjoyed what I did. I, but I just don’t know how long I want to do this because I, in a sense, to be honest with you, I can’t see myself on no computer all day. You know, I, I’m a performer so I would like to, I’m probably gonna be, cuz I have a, an agent who wants to promote me doing my dancing, my pole dancing all over the world.

2 (45m 20s):
And I know dancing, that’s gonna be something I take care of my mother as well. I take care of my mother between take care of my mother and performing. I know I’m not gonna be one that I can’t give a lot of time on the computer, you know? Sure. So, and I know that’s the way of today. So if I had to choose between performing and being on the computer, it would be performing. That’s who I am. So maybe it would be two years and then I’m out or maybe five years and I’m out. And I know some people hire people to just do their computer stuff. So maybe that’s what I gotta do. But I’m a performer. Absolutely not a sit down computer person.

2 (45m 60s):

1 (45m 60s):
Being honest. I, I’d suggest that I know people. I’m not gonna say who they are, who have a whole team that does that and Oh, beautiful. And they’re now they’re able to travel. We can talk offline about that. Yes. And I can, I can tell you who to talk to. Yeah, absolutely.

2 (46m 17s):
Absolutely. I like, I like performing. I would like to do some movies. I heard like, you know, when I was in the game it was Magazine, magazine Magazine. Now I heard a lot of the magazines have gone wayside cuz I would like to shoot for score again and Hustler. You know, I heard like, like I said, all that’s gone. I had heard and a couple, a few, you know, cause when I was in the game was no

1 (46m 39s):
Us still around us Still around.

2 (46m 41s):
Okay. Okay. Because I had heard so many left, you know, and so I thought a few, maybe three or four companies to shoot for, do some dancing and then, you know, till I get bored. But, you know, and that’s about it. And give a good show, give a good, you know, performance and I, I love my audience and my fans and, and that that’ll be about it. You know, I used to love Bill when Bill passed. It just almost broke me cuz him and I used to love, you know, just giving back to the people.

1 (47m 19s):
I get it. Well Sasha, hey, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk. And I hope we’ll have a chance to do this again sometimes

2 (47m 27s):
Soon. Well, I love, thank you for having me. I love being here and it was a pleasure and you are so much fun.

1 (47m 32s):
My broker tip today is part four of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about keeping your site up to date and making sure everything works. Next, find new ways to monetize your site, such as cell advertising. If you’ve got a free site like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site if you have a tube. Another way to make more money is to sell premium memberships. Offer free users one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality or longer videos or both. You can also make the site add free for premium members. Start an affiliate program.

1 (48m 13s):
If you have a pay site, this is a great way to increase your quality of traffic and get more joints with all sites. You can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell to your users. Pay sites can also sell pay-per-view where people have the option of paying by the scene for content they can’t get on the site. This is also another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee. Sell them other products like toys and novelties, market your business, do things to improve your search engine results. There are some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our site list all of the benefits of your site in your marketing and how they affect the user.

1 (48m 60s):
And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firm such as Adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Mistress Carroll. You’re not gonna wanna miss that. And that’s it for this week’s Adult site broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Sasha Bra Buster. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Amy-Marie Merrell of the Cupcake Girls.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. Actually, our property of the week this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available in addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters. Right now we have a CAM site dating sites and pay sites available.

We often have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons. These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyer’s NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify now time for this week’s interview.

My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Amy Marie Merrill of the Cupcake Girls. Amy, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 24s): Thank you so much for having me. I’m so happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (2m 28s): It’s a pleasure. Now Amy Marie Merrill is the executive Director of the Cupcake Girls. Since 2006, Amy has been working with domestic violence survivors as well as in the prevention aftercare of domestic sex trafficking. Amy truly believes ensuring folks have access to resources in order to achieve their goals is the most beautiful form of advocacy and considers her role with the Cupcake girls, her life’s work. When she isn’t in the office, you can find Amy exploring the outdoors with her kid Lux and her Pup Luna, you only have one pup.

We have six.

Speaker 2 (3m 4s): I know. I’m not as cool as you yet. God, I need to be

Speaker 1 (3m 7s): Though.

Speaker 2 (3m 9s): One of these days. One of these days.

Speaker 1 (3m 11s): There you go. So the Cupcake girls provides trauma informed outreach, advocacy, holistic resources and referral services for the prevention and aftercare of those affected by sex trafficking, as well as confidential support to those involved in sex work. They offer assistance to individuals as they move towards greater independence and self-sufficiency. The cupcake Girls envisions a world where sex trafficking is eradicated. We can only hope and consensual sex workers are safe and empowered.

So, Amy, tell me a little bit about you. Who is Amy?

Speaker 2 (3m 48s): Well, I love long walks on the beach.

Speaker 1 (3m 52s): Yeah, don’t go down that, don’t go down that path. That’s funny.

Speaker 2 (3m 57s): Yeah, so I, about me, I am sober. I am a single mom and I’ve been working with sex workers and sex trafficking survivors, like you were saying, since 2006. And it’s really interesting to me because my dad’s a retired major in the army and I grew up kind of everywhere and seeing a lot of everything and something that my parents were really invested in when they were raising us.

Cuz I’m the oldest of six kids. I’m the wow. Only girl with five younger brothers. Geez. It was wild growing up. I just was raised with this idea of, you know, if you’re in the community you need to be giving back to the community. And so my parents growing up, they were always having us volunteer, make sure that we were really trying to put ourselves in the shoes of other people that we’re in the neighborhood with. You know, something that’s been interesting is I have always been surrounded by sex workers. I’ve always been surrounded by sex workers and sex trafficking survivors and sometimes I didn’t even know it until later.

Yeah. But it’s been interesting because it’s just kind of always been around me that I sh I needed to use whatever privilege I had to hand the microphone over to sex workers and trafficking survivors so that they could be heard. When I was 16, I was living in a town called Eugene, Oregon in the United States and Yeah.

Speaker 1 (5m 26s): College town, right?

Speaker 2 (5m 27s): That’s right. Yeah. One of my friends was sexually assaulted by two police officers in that town. Oh. When I was 16. And, and she was telling me about it and I didn’t know what to say. And so I just said, well, we need to go to the police and file a report. And they didn’t do anything. And sure. She started building up enough self-determination and self-empowerment talking about her story. And then just over a dozen other women came forward that were also sex workers and trafficking survivors and they ended up prosecuting those guys. But it’s so interesting because it took so long for them to get justice.

Sure. And I think that’s essentially the feeling in our society is that, you know, sex workers or honestly people who enjoy sex or, or people that are somehow monetizing something not in the way that society is decided it’s okay. Right. That they don’t matter. Yeah. Unfortunately. And it’s such a mess. And so I’m excited that I have the opportunity in my life’s work to elevate the voices of sex workers and sex trafficking survivors.

Talk about decriminalizing sex work and how important it working towards that goal is and, and just making sure that we’re seeing each other as human beings.

Speaker 1 (6m 43s): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and you mentioned two police officers sexually assaulting your friend. That happens so much. It happens so much to sex workers. Was she a sex worker?

Speaker 2 (6m 55s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (6m 56s): And it happens a lot to sex workers because they kind of have them over the barrel. And as we both know, cops are so hard to prosecute, especially when a sex worker is the victim because nobody believes them.

Speaker 2 (7m 12s): Right.

Speaker 1 (7m 13s): Yeah. That’s kind of sad. Yeah, I’m glad. That’s really interesting. I’m glad they got their, I’m glad they, those cops got their day in court and got prosecuted.

Speaker 2 (7m 21s): Right, exactly. And I think when we’re looking at systems that we’re upholding as a society, we really need to take a hard look in the mirror because at least in the United States, we’re paying taxes into this system. So essentially we’re enabling this system and I mean, it keeps me up at night, you know? Sure. The fact that the things that I’ve paid into that I’m a part of this, you know, and, and I think it’s important that it keeps us all up at night. We just finished midterm elections here in the United States and it’s fascinating to me.

The race was so close and it’s like, wow, people just really don’t matter to the majority of people. And so the work that you’re doing to uplift so many people’s voices is so important on this podcast. I, I’m really thankful for everything that you’re doing and thank you. Yeah. I think I would like more people to know about you and everything that you do, so I’m excited to be spreading the word about you too.

Speaker 1 (8m 16s): I appreciate that you made Yeah, you, you absolutely. You absolutely made my day. So how did you get involved with the Cupcake girls?

Speaker 2 (8m 25s): Yeah, so, gosh, like I said, I was always getting surrounded by sex workers and trafficking survivors. So I told, told the story about my friend when I was a young teen. And from there I went actually to be a flight attendant. And when I was a flight agent on the planes, it was kind of before, you know how in bathroom stalls, there’ll be a sign that says, are you being trafficked? Call this number. Well, I was a flight attendant before those signs were in stalls. Oh sure. And so folks would just kind of figure out whatever resources were in different towns and refer people to resources if they would run into somebody.

Sure. And there was just a spreadsheet that people would keep going and contacts that we would all put together. And so I would see things in the airports and I was, it was just kind of a culture shock to me, to be honest. And then we went to, you know, fast forward 2009, I took a job for widening Kennedy, an advertising agency in, in Portland, Oregon. And we were working super late nights on a pitch. And I was running with my dog and I saw a woman being beat up on the street and I didn’t have my cell phone on me cuz iPod shuffles were a thing back then.

And ran backwards to the grocery store and asked the security card to call 9 1 1. And the security guard looked behind me to see what I was talking about and looked back at me and laughed at me. And he said, she’s a prostitute. They would just arrest her anyway. And so I yelled some expletives at him and then ran to go get my phone and called nine one one. But by the time the police got there, the woman was gone. And I asked the officers like, is this true? Would she have been arrested? And they were like, well, yeah, she’s got some felonies. She’s pretty well known in this part of the town.

And, and I was like, I didn’t know very much about the police department. So I was like, I wanna talk to your manager. And then I ended up talking to like the lieutenants, the captains, and then ended up across the Chief of Police, which was Chief Rosie at the time. And she told me, Amy, if you wanna make any change in this world, you need to get involved with grassroots nonprofits and work to change legislation. So I dedicated my life to doing both. And I started with the Cupcake Girls in February, 2012 after they had started the year prior in February, 2011.

So I was really able to get on the ground with them as they were building up the organization and be involved with a lot of the procedural things and, and operational tasks. But also speaking into the idea of us having one-on-one advocacy with our clients and the importance of that. Right. And the importance of like really leaning into the work, being non-judgmental. And so I, I got involved with the Cupcake Girls because I could have a voice into what was happening.

The organization Prize itself on inviting innovation. And that was something that was interesting to me, but also the non-judgmental aspect because a lot of people, they are in anti-trafficking work and they are demonizing sex workers. Yeah. And it’s, it’s wrong. They, they can’t say, oh, you know, I’m here to pull everybody outta the industry or, or I’d like the industry to be completely stopped. And it’s like, you can want whatever you want, but you’re harming people in the process.

And so we talk a lot about Cupcake Girls a lot at Cupcake Girls about how the importance of non-judgment, no hidden agendas. There’s no religious connections. We’re never pulling anybody outta the industry or pu pushing anybody in either. It’s up to the client. So if the client wants to leave, sure, cool. We’ll help them do that. Yeah. The clients wants to stay cool, we’ll help them do that. But sex work is a job just like any job and Yep. I think that that aspect keeps me with the Cup Gate girls for sure.

Speaker 1 (12m 12s): That’s awesome. So what exactly do the Cupcake girls do?

Speaker 2 (12m 18s): Totally. So what we do is we partner with doctors, dentists, lawyers, auto mechanics, daycare providers, whatever it is, whatever our clients might need. And we ask those professionals to give us their services at a discounted or pro bono rate. Cool. And then we vet those providers to make sure that their sex workers safe. People come to us and they’re like, I haven’t been to the dentist in years. Cause the last time I went I was assaulted. So we really try to make sure, you know, okay, if we have a dentist that’s offering free services, who’s in the office when you’re there, we go to the office, we make sure it feels safe to us.

And so I think that what’s really cool about what we do is, yeah, those free partnerships, but clients, they’ll come to us and they don’t ever have to use their real name unless they’re trying to achieve a goal that’s going to need to use their real name, such as a record expungement. But clients will come to us and they say that they need help with any number of things, whether it’s leaving their trafficker, getting their kids out of foster care, getting sober, whatever it is. We’ll help them do that. And the timeline is always the clients. So we have one of our clients that’s been with us for seven years and then some people that have been with us for seven hours.

But we’ll work with people that have started the industry today, or they left the industry 50 years ago. Or people that are currently being sex trafficked and they’re in the process of working to leave their trafficker or they’re not ready to leave their trafficker yet, or they left 50 years ago, but whoever it is will work with them as long as they were connected to sex work in some way, just because there’s nothing out there for people. Yeah. There’s a lot of grassroots organizations that are coming up and they are trying so hard to provide as many micro grants as they can and things that they can, but the need is so great and we need as many hands helping on this as we possibly can get.

Speaker 1 (14m 7s): Absolutely. So does this get you to work with other organizations?

Speaker 2 (14m 12s): Yeah, we actually work with, a lot of different organizations will work with Strippers United, we work with different organizations in, in Oregon, the Oregon Sex Workers Coalition, and as long as well as a lot of nonprofits and community groups. So cool people that are working on harm reduction truly is like the main partnership that we’ll have. And then, like I said, those professionals that we work with that are nationwide, whether it be like doctors Dennis lawyers, like I was saying before.

But yeah, the community collaboration is my focus 100%. We need to be focused on community care and you can only do that through real true crap collaboration that’s not ego-driven. Right. So it can’t be about like, how can we boost up the name of Cupcake Girls today? But it needs to be about, there is a massive amount of people that is receiving an incredible amount of oppression. How do we relieve some of this weight? Sure. And so it, it’s been, it’s been beautiful being able to partner with so many amazing orgs, but also eye-opening to see how many orgs really are not that great that are out there.

Speaker 1 (15m 23s): Sure. So what differentiates you from other, other anti-trafficking organizations?

Speaker 2 (15m 31s): Yeah, so a lot of orgs out there that are anti-trafficking orgs, they have a religious bent. And so even though they’re giving services, they’re saying that, you know,

Speaker 1 (15m 45s): It’s with an agenda.

Speaker 2 (15m 46s): Yeah. They’re hoping, hoping, praying, wishing, kind of pushing Right. For somebody to come to a church service with them or, or things like that. Yeah, sure. And then also we are interested in decriminalizing sex work and we understand that decriminalizing sex work is the best thing for folks who are being trafficked. Sure. And we we’re also not about the hype surrounding sex trafficking, which a lot of the orgs are. Like, we openly talk about how the Super Bowl is not a sex trafficking hub, even though a lot of money has been poured into the anti-trafficking movement, talking about that, it’s been proven time and time again that, that it’s not, and, and I think, I think that those are like the main, the main things that differentiate us is differentiate us.

And we’re also like all about really looking at, okay, what are the issues in our society that have caused this problem? And we need to understand that sex trafficking, it’s always gonna be around, it’s always been around, it’s always gonna be around sexual assaults. Unfortunately it’s the exact same thing. I wish we could eradicate it. We’re not going to be able to. But what are the things that we’re doing in our society that are perpetuating these problems that we’re all saying that we’re claiming to solve? And so we’ll talk a lot about how capitalism is a problem.

We talk a lot about how racism and the patriarchy is a problem. And I think that those aren’t conversations that we’re having often enough. Definitely not in the anti-trafficking space because they wanna say that porn is the problem or sex workers are the problem. Yeah. Men are the problem, you know, slits are the problem, whatever. It’s, and it’s like, nope, that’s not true. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17m 31s): Men are, men are always the problem. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (17m 34s): Totally. Except for you

Speaker 1 (17m 38s): Bruce, except for me. Exactly. So is there anything you wish more people knew about the work you’re doing?

Speaker 2 (17m 45s): We get misunderstood on, on both sides. I think that within Cupcake Girls, there’s this misunderstanding A, that we’re a bakery, which, you know, we’re not, although we do have some delicious cupcakes that we give out at networking events.

Speaker 1 (18m 2s): Sweet.

Speaker 2 (18m 3s): Yeah, exactly. But yeah, we’re not a bakery and that we also, we are open to looking into whatever we can do to be more helpful and less harmful to the industry. So if people have ideas on something that we could do that would be better for the industry, we always wanna hear about it. We always wanna invite innovation. Nice. And then for the conservative side and the anti-trafficking side, I, I think that there’s this misunderstanding that it’s like, you know, that we’re not anti-trafficking because we are pro-sex work.

And I think that that’s the, the confusing thing is that it’s just not true. In fact, of course I think that we’re more anti-trafficking. Oh yeah. Because we’re pro-sex work.

Speaker 1 (18m 44s): Well those people aren’t anti-trafficking. They’re they’re anti-porn. They’re anti adult. Yeah. They’re anti prostitution.

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): Totally. Exactly. Yeah. That’s exactly it. Yeah. No, that’s, you run into a lot of anti-trafficking organizations yourself.

Speaker 1 (18m 59s): I read about ’em.

Speaker 2 (19m 0s): Okay.

Speaker 1 (19m 1s): I prefer not to run into them.

Speaker 2 (19m 3s): Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (19m 5s): They certainly wouldn’t be guests on this podcast, although, although it might be nice to get one of ’em on one of these days. So I can rip ’em Shred for shred.

Speaker 2 (19m 14s): I’ll throw some names at you.

Speaker 1 (19m 17s): Maybe. We’ll, maybe we’ll have a debate. That would be kind of fun.

Speaker 2 (19m 21s): I’d be down for that. Lemme tell you

Speaker 1 (19m 24s): The question is, the question is, would they Totally,

Speaker 2 (19m 28s): Totally. I mean, that’d be interesting. Get some conservative press.

Speaker 1 (19m 32s): Yeah, I do follow, I do follow what they do and what they believe and it’s such a crock. But anyway, yeah. We could spend hours talking about that. So what are the biggest stereotypes your clients encounter surrounding sex work?

Speaker 2 (19m 47s): You know, it’s interesting. Most people think that people are being forced into sex work. They cannot fathom the idea that somebody would consent to do sex work. Right? Sure. And so a lot of the education that I do is, I’ll say this line where I talk about how sex work is a job. Like any other job, sometimes you love your job, sometimes you hate your job, sometimes you like your job, sometimes you’re okay with your job. You’re kind of looking for other things on the side with a job. Yeah. It’s just like any other job.

And honestly, in most of your jobs, there is not enough workplace protection for how much harm could happen to you during your job. Right. And so there’s just, there’s not enough labor protections for any of us. Right. But, but most people, they think that sex work is inherently harmful and that all sex workers are being trafficked. And you know, I have talked to so many people that have just really inspired me and helped me understand how helpful in healing sex work has been to them.

Yeah. People that had been trafficked, people that had been through horrors that like, I could never even try to repeat. They are just terrible. And they will tell me sex work saved my life. Hmm. And if it wasn’t for sex work, I would not have gotten me back. Interesting. And sex work has been this beautiful way of them taking back control, taking back ownership of themselves and who they are. And I think people, they miss out on the beauty. Hmm. And, and so I’m bummed about that.

I think that a lot of folks, they’re gonna live their, their short life on this spinning rock in the middle of space and, and they’re gonna miss out on just being able to truly, openly understand and appreciate that we’re all so different. And that’s okay. But

Speaker 1 (21m 40s): No, very true. Very true. And it’s interesting the term sex work, and we’ve talked about this on the podcast before, the term p sex work used to only mean play for pay. Right. It only used to mean prostitution in the last two, three years. It’s come to include everything in the adult space. Right. Including modeling, including performers on only fans, including porn stars.

Hell, including me. So I I I proudly use the handle. What do you think about that transition?

Speaker 2 (22m 19s): You know, I think it was a really healthy one. I used to hear in the industry a lot where people would say, you know, well, I’m a cam girl, but I’m not a prostitute. Or like, I’m a dancer, but I’m not a prostitute. Like, I wouldn’t do that. And there was just this disdain and just a lot of infighting and separating self from like this idea of like, street-based sex work or of like full service sex work. And, and honestly it was really disheartening and I’ve been happy to see the change.

I think that it’s more inclusive and brings a better space of belonging because, you know, sex workers have always been on the front lines of creating spaces of belonging and holding space. And of course they, it would, they would be the leaders in this as well. But you don’t win by separating yourself from That’s true. The most depressed folks. Right. You, you only win by creating full, you know, full acceptance and, and bringing hope to all people.

And I think that sex workers over the last few years, truly, especially with Gen Z coming into the table, I think that a lot of people are just realizing like, oh, like if I wanna go fast, I can go alone. If I wanna go far, I can go together. You know, just like that African proverb. Right? Yeah, sure. So I think it’s going to, I think it’s good. I think it’s really good. I think it’s more inclusive. I think that it’s better for everybody. And I think that decisions like that, they’re gonna, it’s gonna make it an easier playing field for us to walk into a world where we can have decriminalizing of sex work in all of our states.

Speaker 1 (24m 2s): Sure. So what are the some, some of the biggest hurdles you face as an organization?

Speaker 2 (24m 7s): Funding a lot of conservatives fund anti-trafficking spaces. They won’t fund anti-trafficking spaces that are also decriminalizing sex work. Right. And I think it’s really interesting because we haven’t necessarily found our audience yet when it comes to funders and people that are willing to Yeah. Support people who might want to stay in the industry and, and who would, who would consider themselves to be thriving in the industry.

And so I’m still working on it. I’ve only been in the executive director role since July, 2021. And so I had over a year now to be figuring it out. And I think over this next year we’re gonna, we’re gonna really start to get into our group there with funding. But it’s been taking some time to figure out, okay, who’s our audience? Because we only came out fully against criminalizing sex work when I took over last July. Got it. And so I think it’s gonna be interesting as we’re stepping into this new phase, all right.

Like, how do we sustain this because we’re not going back. We need to be client centered and this, this decision is important and so I wanna be able to support it with funds, but we’re gonna find the right funders. I believe in it. The work is important and they like field of dreams. Right. If you build it, they will come. So

Speaker 1 (25m 30s): I believe you’ll make it happen.

Speaker 2 (25m 32s): Thanks, man.

Speaker 1 (25m 34s): So what are some common misconceptions about sex trafficking?

Speaker 2 (25m 38s): So everyone thinks sex trafficking is that people are kidnapped and thrown into the trunk of a car, kept in dog cages or locked in closets. And I see those cases more often than I would like to. Right. But the majority of trafficking in the United States is actually just over 70% is generational trafficking. So it’s people that are being trafficked by their moms, dads, aunties, aunties, uncles, grandma’s. That’s really

Speaker 1 (26m 4s): Co that’s really common here. And Southeast Asia, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (26m 8s): Totally. A lot of people within society, they end up thinking like, oh, you know, sex trafficked people, oh, it’s so sad. And they’re missing kids that are being trafficked right underneath their noses. And honestly, they’re missing a lot of the folks that are being trafficked when the, within our foster care system. Oh,

Speaker 1 (26m 29s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (26m 29s): And I think another common misconception is, well they were obviously like putting themselves in a bad position and that’s why they they’re being trafficked.

Speaker 1 (26m 39s): Yeah. It’s the person being being trafficked fault.

Speaker 2 (26m 43s): Totally. And it’s really interesting because our data is showing that there’s actually multiple individual vulnerability factors that even happen before somebody’s been trafficked. So you’ll see systems involvement being a big thing. You’ll see sexual abuse being a big thing. Sure. People that have moved around a lot experienced houselessness as children, you’ll see multiple. And, and at the cupcake girls, three out of every four of our clients are coming directly out of the foster care system. Interesting. And so it’s really wild to me that we’re not talking about the systems that are perpetuating this amount of harm.

Like we’re literally creating this problem. Yeah. But yeah, nobody wants to talk about it. And I think that like the sexier thing is, oh, people are being kidnapped and thrown into trunks of car. And like, I, like I said, those things do happen, but Sure. I think we’re not willing to have hard conversations about why people are being trafficked.

Speaker 1 (27m 37s): Yeah. And big surprise government agencies failing us.

Speaker 2 (27m 44s): Totally. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (27m 46s): That, that has to do with so many of the problems in the United States. It, it’s not funny. So is sex trafficking a revolving doored? Women leave and then come back?

Speaker 2 (27m 57s): Yeah, it’s actually pretty similar to domestic violence. You leave seven times Wow. And come back seven times. Geez. Or by the time you leave, you, you actually finally leave or you’re dead actually is is what the statistic is. And so, yeah, it’s pretty often, I think a common misconception too is that the only people that are trafficked are female. There’s lots of folks that are being trafficked that are in the non-binary community, the LGBTQ plus community. A lot of trafficking survivors are men or males.

There’s a lot of stigma that, you know, a trafficker looks and, and acts and is a certain way. Most traffickers are actually white, middle-aged men. And so there’s just like a lot of stigma that, that our society has. And then you miss who the trafficker is, which I think is interesting.

Speaker 1 (28m 46s): Yeah. So what future are you striving towards for women and society in general within your work?

Speaker 2 (28m 54s): I want to see people have full autonomy over their bodies. Hmm. Over who they’re deciding to work for or spend their time

Speaker 1 (29m 4s): With. You better. You better tell the Supreme Court that.

Speaker 2 (29m 6s): I know I’ve been trying, trust me, write lots of letters, but people, people need full autonomy over their bodies. And I think that honestly we really need to be looking at all of ourselves in the mirror because we’re saying my body, my choice all day long when it comes to, you know, birth control and abortion rights and why does it stop when it comes to sex workers? Yeah. And so I’d like to, I’d like to see the conversation go deeper so people have honest conversations about why, why they’re not being supportive of decriminalizing sex work.

Speaker 1 (29m 39s): Well again, it all comes down to the public’s view, right. That sex workers just don’t count.

Speaker 2 (29m 47s): Right.

Speaker 1 (29m 48s): I mean that seems to be the prevailing problem that’s really hurting everything you’re trying to do.

Speaker 2 (29m 55s): Right. Exactly. And they matter. They’re honestly the most courageous and relentless people I’ve ever met and I’m so inspired by them. Sure. But I think that they make the world a better place. They really, really do. Sure. We need to all come together and make sure that they’re safe.

Speaker 1 (30m 12s): Well, if you’re talk, if you’re talking about prostitutes, that’s the, the quote unquote the world’s oldest profession and, and certainly is a need for it.

Speaker 2 (30m 23s): Right.

Speaker 1 (30m 24s): If there wasn’t a, if there wasn’t a need, then it wouldn’t be something that people paid so much money for.

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): Right. So, and if it wasn’t a need, then people wouldn’t be laboring Yeah. In that job.

Speaker 1 (30m 37s): Sure. Yeah. Because it’s not easy work, nor is Nora is doing porn.

Speaker 2 (30m 43s): No, it’s not.

Speaker 1 (30m 44s): So what changes would you like to see implemented in the near future?

Speaker 2 (30m 49s): I’d love to see sex work decriminalized. I’d love to have back abortion rights. That would be really nice. Sure. And I’d love to see organizations that aren’t raking in millions of dollars in paying their executive directors ridiculous amounts of money while then paying entry level positions. Nothing. I’d like to see the, the organizations working with integrity be funded. Yeah. And I’d like to see a wealth tax too, but can’t get everything.

Speaker 1 (31m 19s): So aside from your organization, what is being done to prevent sex trafficking?

Speaker 2 (31m 25s): Yeah. I think that there are a lot of folks that are providing amazing services for domestic violence survivors and that a lot of trafficking survivors are utilizing those resources. But besides that, not a lot. Not a lot. Unfortunately. There just isn’t a lot of help. In fact, I was talking to a traffic, a trafficking survivor the other day and, and she was telling me about how anti-trafficking organizations have not been helpful for her at all. Sure. Of Gate Girls was the first organization that she was actually able to meet with and that when she was rescued from her trafficking situation, she received a coupon for two nights Hotel state from Social services.

And she’s like, and then I had to figure out what I was doing from there. They gave me two days. Geez. It’s just our society is not set up for success in that way. So I’m glad ke Gate girls exist. It’s why I continue to be here. I see the help that we provide and and I see the necessity for it, that’s for sure.

Speaker 1 (32m 24s): Well, and here’s the thing, and here’s the biggest problem I see with anything that helps sex workers, that helps working girls that helps the porn industry is that it’s just so unpopular with the public. Especially the right wing. If you’re a congressman and you put a law out there that helps sex workers, your opponents are just gonna lamb based you. And we know Totally.

Politics is always, and it’s all outta convenience.

Speaker 2 (32m 58s): Totally.

Speaker 1 (32m 59s): I mean that’s, that to me is the biggest problem. Have you spoken with Congress people and the like, and what kind of feedback have you gotten if you have?

Speaker 2 (33m 9s): I’ve been pretty disappointed, honestly. I’ve been pretty disappointed. I actually had a, Catherine Cortez Masto here in Nevada is asking for advice because she was about to put her signature on the Earner Act. Oh God. And I was telling her that it was a terrible idea and that the Earner Act was terrible. Bill be the next FA cta. Yes. It was just a terrible idea. It was gonna harm a lot of people.

And then I connected her with Dr. Barbara Brent at U N L V, who told her, you know, the Barbara Brent sent over a ton of data and sent over a letter that Barbara brz had signed with 250 reachers researchers and scientists, and sent her over documentation from Amnesty International, the World Health Organization. And Catherine Cortez Matos still signed that bill.

Speaker 1 (34m 5s): I, I knew where this was going

Speaker 2 (34m 7s): And I was just so disappointed. And I think yeah. You know, when, when we talk about electing people, it’s super great and I, and I am all for voting and I am, and I, you know, I made sure all my friends voted that I voted, my family voted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally vote. Sure. But there’s so much more that you have to do after you submit that ballot. Yeah. There’s so much more we have to keep on everybody and we have to vote with our dollars, who we’re, who we’re spending our money on and where we’re shopping, things like that.

And I just, I have not had great luck with politicians, but I have had great luck with amazing community organizers and making sure that I’m spending my money on businesses who care about the community.

Speaker 1 (34m 51s): Well the system is so incredibly broken. The two party system has been broken for decades.

Speaker 2 (34m 57s): A hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (34m 58s): And it doesn’t seem that anything good gets done on a legislative level. Unfortunately,

Speaker 2 (35m 6s): We tried to pass Senate Bill 1 64 last year and that would’ve made it so that in the state of Nevada, they would stop arresting sex trafficking survivors. And we had public comment open up for the bill and this guy got on from the police department and he was like, honestly, I just need to be frank with you all taxpayers don’t wanna see prostitutes walking around on our streets. Mm. Nice. And so I got on on and I was like, sir, you do realize that sex workers are also taxpayers, everyone pays taxes.

Hmm. And he just got off the call. He got so mad. But it just made me realize like after that Bill did not pass because a ton of police officers came out. Sure. That did not support it.

Speaker 1 (35m 58s): Yeah. And people always often listen to the police. Unfortunately

Speaker 2 (36m 2s): That’s true. And, and I think it just made me realize like, you know what if people, if they’re not here to listen to learn, then I just can’t spend my time trying to convince them I need to keep going. Right. And then find people that will be convinced and, and will listen and, and talk

Speaker 1 (36m 19s): To people who are open, open-minded.

Speaker 2 (36m 21s): That’s it. That’s it. Yeah. But I can’t keep spinning my wheels like you’re saying. It’s like are these politicians working for us? Is legislation working for us? Like if it’s not, go spend our energy doing anything else.

Speaker 1 (36m 35s): Yeah, exactly. What has inspired you to stay with the cupcake girls for 10 plus years?

Speaker 2 (36m 40s): The clients, the participants in our programs. You can’t have these conversations and see the things that we’re seeing and and stop. And I think that I’ve also seen a lot of hope from the clients later on. Like I just, I just attended a, a graduation of one of the kiddos from one of our clients who we had walked alongside her as she was regaining custody of her child years ago.

And then the child and the parent, they asked if I would come to the high school graduation because the child was graduating from high school and receiving a award for getting a four point. And it was just like, wow. It was pretty fucking cool. It was pretty fucking cool. And I’ve, I’ve got to go to like housewarming parties when clients like get their first homes after saving up for ever and working with one of our financial consultants and you know, or just sitting with somebody as they’re finishing their first 30 days of sobriety, we only get to live this one beautiful life and then it’s done.

Right. Sure. Like, and I’d so much rather spending my life, spend my life doing this than anything else.

Speaker 1 (37m 55s): That’s nice. So what are some things that the general public can do to be involved in the work you’re doing?

Speaker 2 (38m 3s): Yeah, I think one of the main things that we really, really need right now is for every single person listening to this podcast to sign up as a $5 a month monthly donor. It’s just one latte a month that you’re giving up for our clients. And that $5, it’s not a lot to you, but it’s a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot to the people that we’re intending to serve. And, and so that would be one way. Another way is to be a partner. We are always looking for more professional partners that can provide free or discounted services to our clients.

You may think that your profession is something that we wouldn’t need, but you’d be surprised we had somebody that was looking for a seamstress the other day. So you can reach us at www.thecupcakegirls.org to learn more about different opportunities, whether it be volunteer partner or being a monthly donor. But we’d love to connect with you.

Speaker 1 (38m 54s): Sounds good. Well Amy, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (39m 3s): Awesome. So thankful for you. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (39m 5s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last time we talked about making a good offer and how to structure your site. Next, keep your website design up to date, do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date. Times change. So should your website, look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like.

If you know a site to be successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying copy it, I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit. You’ve gotta keep up with the times or you’re gonna end up being left behind. Also, keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more. Don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good and competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t?

Check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet the competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success, make sure everything works on your website. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’ll lose customers. People are not patient these days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat.

They click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for or if the site is hard to navigate or things just simply don’t work. Check all your internal scripts and plug-ins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Sasha Brabuster. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Amy-Marie Merrell of the Cupcake Girls.

Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Roger t Pipe of Rog Reviews. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. That’s right now. When you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords.

As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner is developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third party sites. The store currently has no employees.

Aside from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business, SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Roger t. Pipe of Roger Views. Roger, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 46s): Thanks for having me back.

Speaker 1 (2m 48s): It’s great to have you. Now, Roger is an avid porn fan since the mid eighties. He started reviewing adult movies as a hobby in 1995 and posting them to news groups after having them picked up by adult retail sites. Roger began Rod reviews.com in 1996. The site houses over 8,000 reviews of adult movies as well as toys, websites, and hundreds of interviews with porn stars. He’s a member of the X-rated critics organization and was inducted into the X R C O Hall of Fame in 2009.

Roger is also a regular voter in the annual AVN and X R C O awards. He does a yearly podcast series, breaking down the AVN Awards nominees and winners. Roger has appeared on television on Naked New York, numerous radio programs including regular segments on Love Bites with Bob Berkowitz, k Sex Radio, Playboy Radio, daily Noise, as well as his own shows on radio dentata. Oh, I remember Old Radio Dentata. We were two of the few hosts on there.

Speaker 2 (3m 55s): Look Good Old Days.

Speaker 1 (3m 57s): Oh, yes, indeed. In 2010, Roger Penn, a chapter entitled Something for Everyone For the Collection Philosophy for Everyone How To Think With Kink. So Roger ever had any truly embarrassing moments on our industry.

Speaker 2 (4m 14s): The one that comes to mind, the first time I was on the radio on Bob Berkowitz’s Love Bite show. Kind of a big deal back then. Certainly a big deal for me. I’d been doing the site for a couple years, get an email from his producer, Bob would like to have you on the show. Very excited, but also very nervous. You kind of notice when I talk, I, I talk fast when I get nervous. This is back in the IRC chat days, and I spent my afternoons hanging out with other porn fans and porn dignitaries in a, a really supportive IRC chat group.

So everybody was there, showed up to support me. This was live, everything was great doing the interview, honestly, I was doing pretty well. And Bob says, Hey, how’d you like to promote your website? Sure, great. Gave out my website. Have to say I’d stopped looking at the IRC chat cuz I was getting distracted. So I looked away from that and I give my URL and Bob says, really? Raj with a J? Yes. And I spelled it wrong a second time he hands me another lifeline.

It, it’s R o j, not G I did it again. Oh no, I did it a third time. So when I went back at the end, the IRC chat, of course, was just all kept screaming at me, spelling it wrong.

Speaker 1 (5m 28s): Did you buy, did you buy a rod with a j after that segment?

Speaker 2 (5m 32s): I, I did. And of course I was mortified. But the good news is, five minutes after the show, Bob called and said, we went, well, we wanna have you on regularly. Nice. He did say, but you probably should get your, your URL right next time. So

Speaker 1 (5m 49s): I’m sure that was a good joke the next time you went on.

Speaker 2 (5m 52s): Oh yeah. Oh, I, I didn’t, I never heard the end of it. As long as I was in IRC chat, I had to change my, my name actually to spell it with a J.

Speaker 1 (6m 1s): Why not? Why not? Hey, I love, I love Indian food. So there you go.

Speaker 2 (6m 6s): There we go.

Speaker 1 (6m 8s): So you wrote a chapter for a book. How did that come about?

Speaker 2 (6m 11s): I did. It was for philosophy for everyone how to think with kink. I was approached by the, it’s kind of an anthology as to do, to kind of pitch an idea. Right. And I pitched an idea that’s basically the chapter is about how the porn as, as a film or as a movie has evolved. Now, this was in 2009, so evolved again since then. But basically how it went from a film that had to appeal to 100% of the audience because there were only a couple hundred distribution points throughout the United States.

Right. You had to go to a theater to see the movie. Right. And how V Home VHS completely changed the game. So you went from a couple hundred to a few million distribution points. Right. And then how the internet changed it even more. And along with the technology, how the product changed from a movie. Sure. That has to appeal to everyone, to videos that could be cranked out quickly. So you could make, you know, some that appealed to this part of the audience, et cetera, et cetera, down to now where you literally can make a movie for 10 customers, charge ’em each, 40 bucks, make $400, that’s your day and you move on.

Yeah. And how it really has become sort of hyper. We’re in like a hyper niche time in the industry.

Speaker 1 (7m 29s): Boy are we.

Speaker 2 (7m 30s): Yeah. So it was a lot of fun writing it and I’m proud of how it came out. The rest of the collection is excellent too. It was, I’m really proud to be up, you know, up in there with some other very serious looks at the industry. Mine was kind of tongue in cheek a little bit, but also serious how, how it did change. How you had to make a movie to appeal to everyone. And how that, just how the technology led us to what a lot of people think is an inferior product. Right. Because it might not be as interesting, but certainly has reached a greater audience.

Speaker 1 (8m 3s): Right. What year was that?

Speaker 2 (8m 6s): I wanna say that was 2000, 2009. 2010. I think I wrote it in 2009.

Speaker 1 (8m 13s): Boy,

Speaker 2 (8m 13s): When you, it’s published in 2010.

Speaker 1 (8m 14s): Boy, when you talk about something for everyone, how that has come to be even more true.

Speaker 2 (8m 20s): Absolutely. Th this was kind of the tail end of digital media being the dominant force. DVDs were still popular. But even if you look at, at what would’ve been in the video stores back in the eighties, right? You had feature films that sort of evolved into what we called couch porn or Gonzo porn. Right. It was a guy, a girl on a couch and red light district, anabolic, diabol, evil angel made movies that didn’t necessarily have a narrative flow. So there were really a collection of scenes and how easy that was to chop up onto websites.

Speaker 1 (8m 52s): Right.

Speaker 2 (8m 53s): Because you don’t don’t need a beginning and an end. So they’re, I don’t wanna say just scenes, I don’t mean to to downplay them, but Right. They’re interchangeable. You know, you can certainly, if you’re a producer, you and you shot 10 scenes in a month, you can pick the six you wanna put in your, in your DVD at that point. As opposed to seventies and eighties where you had a script, even if they were bad, even if they’re a two page script, there was still some kind of a narrative. It definitely changed. And how things like clothing, body type, ethnicity, hair color became a theme to a movie.

Right. Right. That you wouldn’t have had that in the eighties and all of a sudden in the nineties you’ve got, you know, redheads with glasses. Okay. Five redhead throw glasses on ’em. So that’s for definitely for a smaller market, but for that small market, that’s exactly what I want. Cuz that’s what I like. Sure. And it’s, you know, as close to customizable in 2010 as we could get now with only fans and things like that. You’ve got even more customization and webcams. Yeah. You can pick the webcam model you want and get the show you want.

Yes. So it sort of led us to that.

Speaker 1 (10m 3s): Okay. Yeah, absolutely. So Roger, how do you feel that the political climate has changed things?

Speaker 2 (10m 13s): I think that’s interesting because I don’t know that that politics has as much to do with porn as it used to. Again, because the themes of movie, they’re not themes of movies. Right. In the eighties we had some, some political parodies and things. Now I think it’s more the overall social movements. Right. Black Lives Matter certainly had an I impact on the industry. The, the major news outlets change the way they refer to certain genres of porn. It made people really think about minority representation, minority power in the industry.

Right. What is okay and what is not okay to depict, which, and, and a lot of people think it’s common sense, but to an industry that is so appropriately concerned about censorship, especially coming from the outside world, we still live in a country where a good third would probably just assume porn was, was abolished. Yes. So you’re, you were already starting behind in the game big time. The, the more people you offend, the more people you, you worry, you, your support whittles down.

So we’re obviously concerned about that, but at the same time, are we reflecting our best selves out, out to, to the world? We we’re still living in a world where no, you know, African American woman has ever won. Performer of the year at the major awards just never happened. Wow. Wow. And I think people took notice of that. A lot of places stopped labeling movies as interracial because, you know, in, in porn that means specifically black men with non-black women as opposed to what the word means, which, you know, two different races.

Yeah. So as a genre that kind of went away and when that happened, well certainly, I, I applaud the efforts. My, my fear has always been, if we’re not careful, we’re gonna end up having less representation because now you’re taking away award categories that we’re traditionally dominated and given to people of color. If you take that away, my, my fear and, and you know, I have an open mind. We’ll see how we’re doing a couple years into this, but a lot of, a lot of stuff that went away, I, I worry we’re gonna end up having a negative effect.

Speaker 1 (12m 26s): Yeah. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. What is your favorite adult site?

Speaker 2 (12m 31s): My favorite site is I f d. Okay. Internet Adult Film Database. Just because everything that that’s ever been put on VHS or DVD is there. Hmm. And it’s not a porn site, but I use it daily to look up scene pairings to look up, you know, I’m, I’m still getting movies with people I don’t know. I, I can find who they are. They’re, they’re bio lots of reviews. I read lots of those. So that’s, that’s my favorite site when it comes to sites to watch.

There’s lots of interesting ones. I think most of the big production studios from the last 20 years, evil Angel, Jules Jordan, have created really great sites now. It helps that they have outstanding material, but they’ve also evolved and have great technical sites. They’re easy to use. Lots of options. I like those I really like, and a lot of the same kinda stuff I like in dvd. Right, sure. Deeper vixen, they’re, they’re just so beautifully shot.

Yeah. That it ends up making for a really pleasant viewing experience. Whether, and and I, I still watch DVDs, but I watch them on my computer screen. So there’s less of a difference now. Right. When I used to watch on a, on a 60 inch screen, the difference in quality E even the best quality didn’t look great on that screen. Now with, you know, high definition screens, you really see the companies that, that put forth good effort. So I like those.

Speaker 1 (14m 1s): So you vote in the AVN and X R C O awards? What’s that like?

Speaker 2 (14m 7s): It’s a lot of work. Hmm. And let me just say this, especially for avn, I vote in, in the final phase, the Avian editorial staff goes through everything that’s out there for a year and they whit it down to 120 or so categories, 500 or so nominees, which is a huge amount of work. Yeah. But getting it from the whole to that list, I think it must be two or three times is difficult. But then to get Sure.

Get to that like four week period we have between the nominees and when voting is due, it, it’s a lot. There are times when I have four screens going at once. I try to re-watch every, even stuff that I’ve seen. I just to, to keep it refreshed in my memory. So it, it is a lot of work. It’s, it used to be drive up to their offices and pull from shelves and literally, you know, a whole truckload full of DVDs. It’s a little different now. A lot of companies will send like a zip drive.

Right. Or a lot of it’s just, here’s a, you know, a pass to our website. So it’s, it’s less boxes now. But the way both Avian and X rco work is once you get the ballot there, it’s weighted ballots. So one through 10 who you put seven and eight matters in the overall score.

Speaker 1 (15m 26s): Oh,

Speaker 2 (15m 26s): Okay. So it’s a little trickier than just picking first. And I take it really seriously. So I go through and make notes and as I go through a, a category, really try and, and do the best I can to make sure that I’ve covered everything. I usually make it with about a day or so before the deadline. And then I go back like, okay, I really gotta go back and, and rethink this or that. And then I usually try not to watch for about three weeks cause I’m just done.


Speaker 1 (15m 57s): Yeah. You must be cooked at that point.

Speaker 2 (15m 60s): Yeah. It, it, it’s a lot Rios a little smaller and usually it’s after Avian. So I kind of have an idea if like three of the same movies are in the same category. I remember how I ranked them before. So I’ve got a starting point. It means a lot to me. It always did when I was independent for 15 years before I got asked to do it, only the best got to vote in these awards. Yes. And so when I was asked to do it, it, it was, it was a big honor. And I’ve, I’ve treated it very seriously. I do, you know, the, the podcast and I have fun with it.

Yeah. I, I really do. It’s one of the things that, you know, I get inspired to start a podcast series like this one where I actually talk to other people instead of myself. And what I wanna do is I wanna sit down with every adult critic I can find from the last 20 years and just hear their process and hear their thoughts on, on movies and how it’s changed. Because I find that really interesting. Yeah. What makes, especially now with the technology, almost everybody has the ability to shoot something that looks good. And so what makes product A so much better than product B?

What is it, you know, is, is it artistic angles? Is it just a little more detail? Is it onset personality that brings out the best in performers? There’s a lot of little things now that, that I’ve kind of, I kind of get caught up in and I, I still kind of geek out over this a little bit.

Speaker 1 (17m 20s): You talk about how porn has changed with the technology. Why don’t you talk a little more about that?

Speaker 2 (17m 29s): Well, the delivery system, first of all has, has changed it dramatically. It’s so much easier now for people to see it and view it and view it in small bites. Yes. I would imagine a third to a half of porn is probably watching now on a phone.

Speaker 1 (17m 45s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17m 45s): Where 10 years ago that would’ve been impossible to think about. Even if you told me half of porn was watched on a computer 10 years ago, I, I still would’ve been skeptical it was on TVs and ever, ever-growing TVs. And now it’s just that much smaller and high-speed internet of course drove a lot of that. Oh yeah. Because I, I think we talked last time when I, you know, we used to have to wait 30 minutes to download a song. You know, forget a video clip it. But now you can livestream, you can livestream cam shows in Hi def that kind of technology puts it in your living room, your bedroom on your phone.

Very private and intimate in a way that wasn’t possible before. Right. And you know, I, I’m, I’m impressed by that. You’ve got websites now that work with interactive toys so that Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18m 37s): Tell, tell adult ons. Right,

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): Right. Which, which is just absolutely mind blowing when I started 26 years ago. Which 26 years is a long time. But you know, probably most everybody listening’s older than that. When I started it was a

Speaker 1 (18m 53s): VHS tape. Oh I certainly, I certainly am.

Speaker 2 (18m 56s): Right. So it was a VHS tape and a stack of those took up a big portion of your closet.

Speaker 1 (19m 2s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (19m 3s): And now you can store how many, you know, terabytes of, of porn on the, something the size of a wallet. So that’s changed. The, the one-on-one social media, that sort of interaction, all that has drastically changed the industry and how people view it for the positive and for the negative.

Speaker 1 (19m 24s): Yeah, absolutely. So you talked about your annual AVN podcast. Why don’t you get into a little bit of detail?

Speaker 2 (19m 33s): Anybody who sat through them. It’s usually 14 to 16, 20 to 30 minute episodes. And I go through each and every category. We go over them. My thoughts, I have AVS blessing to discuss the process, to discuss my ballot. I usually don’t say, here’s who I voted for. I usually will look, here’s, here’s some people at the top of my ballot. I’d like it to be as interactive as possible. And what usually ends up happening is as we go over each category, then I upload the podcast.

I get some user feedback, either commenting on what we talked about or questions about certain categories. We go over the changes in categories. Cuz the categories change over time. Right. We used to have a lot of porn parody ca categories. Now those are gone cause nobody makes them anymore. That’s true. And how drastically different, I still remember AVN when there was a best film and best video. So you so you actually had a separate category for shot on film. Yeah.

And now you, you’ve barely got four features to nominate in a year. Yeah. So it’s changed. So that’s the podcast. I, like I said, I I would like to incorporate other people, but right now it, it’s really simple for me to strap on the, the headphones and just talk about it. And it, it’s a lot of fun. And I’m usually wrong. Just so everybody knows, I’m usually not way off. You know, usually someone in my top five wins, but there are times when, and, and that’s always interesting and humbling to me.

I I know that there’s a lot of people I respect voting. Yes. A lot of people whose opinions I respect and whose values I think I share. And you just kind of wanna go, what, how did you guys miss it? Or how did I miss it? Which one of us is off? Because I didn’t have that person even in my top five.

Speaker 1 (21m 25s): That’s why you have, that’s why you have a lot of good ears and eyes voting.

Speaker 2 (21m 31s): That’s true. It’s not just mine. So it, it’s a lot of fun. I I like doing it. Like I said, I’d like to do a little more, a little more frequent podcasts. There’s, there’s certainly a lot of issues going on in the industry. And yeah, I haven’t done interviews in a while because I don’t really go to shows. Even before Covid, I’d kind of cut back on going to shows.

Speaker 1 (21m 50s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (21m 51s): But it’s such a perfect opportunity to do an interview and this conversational style. This is how I used to interview people. Right. I didn’t, I didn’t like just reading my 20 porn questions. You know, I kind of wanted to, to go a little deeper. So maybe I’ll start a, you know, a good star interview podcast.

Speaker 1 (22m 13s): That would be, that would be excellent. I hope, hope I’ve inspired you a little bit. So

Speaker 2 (22m 19s): I gotta work on the voice. You know, you, you blow me outta the water

Speaker 1 (22m 22s): With you. Your voice. Your voice is fine. Don’t

Speaker 2 (22m 24s): Thank you.

Speaker 1 (22m 24s): Don’t even, don’t even, your voice is fine. I just, I just happened to be a former sportscaster and the voice is, voice is well trained, so don’t, don’t have voice envy because you shouldn’t. So how did covid change porn?

Speaker 2 (22m 41s): I think it, it was one of those things that pushed us towards a new kind of content. A smaller, more intimate content. I think we were already going there with only fans because hardworking performers didn’t have to leave the house and go to sets. When sets were shut down. They had to stay at home, get more creative, get more one-on-one time with their fans. And I think it’s, it’s turned a lot of performers into entrepreneurs and it’s made the ones who are already in moving in that direction.

It’s just skyrocketed them.

Speaker 1 (23m 16s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (23m 18s): And we’ve seen some covid themed stuff and it’s mostly silly, but the fact of the matter is, for a year and a half when we were really shut down, you saw a lot of only fans, couples doing what they could do. And I think that attracted a certain audience. I definitely think people follow porn stars more now than they used to. And we talked in the last time about, I think the porn star has really faded a little bit compared compared to the glory days of, you know, wicked and vivid in, in those days.

But at the same time, the stars that people follow have, I think a more ardent following who have more access to them. They don’t have to go out and look on the video shelves for, you know, if, you know, I used to go out and look for a Ginger Lynn or a Candy Evans movie, I don’t do that anymore. Right. I can subscribe to Angela White’s only fans and I’m gonna see everything she does. Right. So I think it changes the nature of being a fan and creates a more intimate relationship. And I think Covid forced that step. There weren’t the same number of shoots as before, so it forced people to, to sort of get on, get on board the train that was already leaving the station.


Speaker 1 (24m 28s): And a lot of performers decided they didn’t need production companies anymore.

Speaker 2 (24m 34s): Absolutely. I I believe we talked last time about the, the difference in scale, right? Yeah. You wanna make a, a big movie, you gotta pay a lot of people. Right. You wanna put on some makeup and find your favorite toy. You don’t have to make a whole lot of money back to make that profitable day.

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): Right. You can do it on your phone.

Speaker 2 (24m 51s): Yep. And that, that’s that, that amazes me. Yep. That and, and it and it looks good. It looks better than the stuff we saw in the eighties that were shot on film cameras. Hell

Speaker 1 (25m 1s): Yes. The iPhones do an amazing job. I’ve seen some of the Apple commercials where they’re showing movies get shot, supposedly get shot on an iPhone. And you absolutely can do

Speaker 2 (25m 13s): That. It makes me wonder technologically what’s next.

Speaker 1 (25m 17s): Yeah, I’m, I’m ready. So what do you think comes next in terms of content?

Speaker 2 (25m 25s): I think we’re gonna continue to see smaller, more intimate productions. We’ve already seen a lot of talent is doing content trades for each other’s only fans or Right. Many videos cha channels or, or whatever it is. Again, it keeps production costs down. If you’re a female performer, you can get a, a top end male performer to come shoot a scene. You both get to sell it through your own channels. It, it’s really performer ownership and I think we’re gonna see more of that.

I, I don’t see how we can go back. I mean, I really don’t because obviously physical media is dying out.

Speaker 1 (26m 1s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26m 2s): Much to my su much to my chagrin, I still buy DVDs and occasionally a cd I know I’m 110 years old,

Speaker 1 (26m 11s): But I do buy c I do buy CDs. I haven’t bought an, I haven’t bought a DVD in years.

Speaker 2 (26m 17s): I, I I still buy mainstream blueray, not often, but, you know, I bought the Batman had to have that even though as you know, my wife said, we’ve got hbo. It’s, it’s right there. Anytime you wanna watch it doesn’t matter now I have this, I have this

Speaker 1 (26m 33s): You on a shelf, you wanna own it. You’re a collector. I understand, I

Speaker 2 (26m 37s): Understand. I still buy books. I, I don’t, don’t think we’re going back. No.

Speaker 1 (26m 40s): I use, I use my Kindle on my iPad

Speaker 2 (26m 42s): And, and I, I should, I should. I’m, I’m about 50 50 now. I’m getting better with, with books. But I, you know, I I grew up as an avid reader and having the book in my hand means something to me. And I know that that makes me old. But, so I don’t think we go back. I I think that obviously the only business model, not to promote them necessarily, cuz I think somebody else will come along and, and fill that void. But that style where even when I, 10 years after I started, the big thing was every performer had to have a website.

Right, right. I, I don’t think we discussed this last time, but I interviewed Jenna Hayes right before, right before she got big, she’d just done a couple of movies. Right. She’s from Orange County and we went to Black Angus and I interviewed her and at the end of the interview I said, you need to go home and you need to get your website cuz somebody else will if you don’t.

Speaker 1 (27m 37s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (27m 37s): And I waited three days, it was still available and I bought it and then I called her immediately and said, I told you to buy it, I’ve got it, it’s yours, but I wanted to make sure you got it. And it was 10 years before she actually took ownership from it. Wow. Wow. But had, had I not done that, somebody else would’ve bought it under her. That was the big thing then. Now nobody’s got their own website. They buy the URL to, to, to go toward their Twitter account or an only Fann account. Right. So that’s their version of a website and it’s a whole lot easier, you know, you don’t have

Speaker 1 (28m 11s): To and it’s, and it’s a hell of a lot more profitable.

Speaker 2 (28m 14s): Absolutely. So I, I think that’s where we’re going and I think we’re gonna continue to see more performers who never really get into the talent pool. The industry used to be a group of people and you know, famously back in the seventies, eighties, it was a small group of people, but then it was everybody that goes to Avian and it’s the agents and the directors and the stars. And now I think you’re gonna have people who now I’m shooting my stuff in Chicago and I don’t, that’s all I do.

And I think it’s again, gonna change the nature of what being a performer is.

Speaker 1 (28m 50s): Absolutely. So how has the job of a porn critic changed over the years?

Speaker 2 (28m 56s): Oh, that, that’s a great question because

Speaker 1 (28m 58s): I know cuz I asked it

Speaker 2 (28m 60s): Of course. And that’s something that I ask my fellow X R C O members every year when we get together and talk about different categories and what we’re gonna do for this show. What are we reviewing anymore? If there comes a time in the next two years when nothing’s released on dvd, because right now, oh, there, I just grabbed a dvd. This is five scenes, they’re all pov I’m sorry, four scenes, four scenes of pov. Right. That’s it. These can be completely independent of each other.

The only reason they’re together in a movie that I can review an award is cuz somebody chose to put these four scenes together.

Speaker 1 (29m 37s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (29m 37s): If they stopped with a dvd, those four scenes are gonna be four of 400 on that website for the year

Speaker 1 (29m 44s): Or 4,000 or 40,000 or 400,000.

Speaker 2 (29m 48s): So what am I reviewing? Yeah. The individual seems for sure. But how do we get that across to, to readers and listeners as to what is good or not? And Yeah. And I think as, as we, it’s hard, as we chop everything into smaller bite size, I think the critic comes a little less important because when I started, there was a two and a half hour amount of time that you devoted to watching a movie and beginning and end mattered and how everything flowed mattered and how they use the talent.

Right. If you had a, a vivid movie and they had Ginger Lynn and she was in three scenes, that’s good. If she was in two, that was less good if you liked her. Right. So I think that becomes difficult. I think reviewing, lighting, acting, all of those things becomes more difficult as what are the, what’s the acting, you got three lines of dialogue, I think. But I think one of the biggest changes, and my fellow critics hate this, but let’s be honest, people used to come to my site to save money.

Speaker 1 (30m 51s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30m 52s): Because it cost you a rental fee or a purchase fee if you were gonna buy a movie. And I got, I’ve got a lovely collection on an old hard drive somewhere of, of thank you emails. Thank you so much. I never would’ve found this gem had I not read your review or thank you very much. I’m glad I avoided seeing that I would’ve wasted my money on it. Yeah. So in that way, not me, but adult critics were important gatekeepers of what was good and bad, whether you agreed with us or not.

And, and I firmly believe, it doesn’t matter if you agree with me or not. Right. What matters is you trust me because I had plenty of readers who said, good, you hate it, I’m buying it. Right. Just like a music critic, just like a regular movie critic. Yes. But now that it’s mostly free of what value is a is is a review or criticism. That’s

Speaker 1 (31m 41s): A good point. It’s,

Speaker 2 (31m 42s): It’s kinda like going to a restaurant. Do you care if it’s great if it’s free, you take a bite if it’s bad. Right.

Speaker 1 (31m 49s): But

Speaker 2 (31m 50s): On some level, if you can go to a buffet for free, take a bite to something you don’t like it, you throw it away, it matters a little less. Now it still matters to people who, who are looking for something good. But it’s easier now to, and not even free. Let’s say you sign up for one of these megabytes for 20 bucks a month. Yeah. If you don’t like this update, there’s 12 more. Right. You can move on. Yeah. So I think now the value of of being a critic is I’m trying to do things on a little larger scale.

How does it look as a whole? How does this fit with somebody’s career arc And to try and be funny and entertaining. Cause if someone’s gonna give me five minutes to read something Yeah. It better be smart. It better be funny. It better be entertaining. It better be something. Yes. Because if it’s boring than what’s the point? And that’s kind of how I feel about good porn, about porn. I’d rather it be bad than boring.

Speaker 1 (32m 42s): So what do you think being in the AVN or X R C O Hall of Fame mean to performers, fans, and, and of course yourself.

Speaker 2 (32m 52s): I’m me a member of the X RCO Hall of Fame. And it means a ton to me personally because it was a peer voting. So to be voted in and, and again, you gotta remember where I came from in 96. I was a fan. I was writing for internet chat groups and completely on the outside. And to have my work valued means everything. The, the other writers on, on that list are people I look up to. So that means a lot to me. I’m always interested in what it means to performers because Rock and Roll, hall of Fame, baseball Hall of Fame, let’s use those two examples, right.

Those are both outstanding groups of athletes and musicians. But the Hall of Fame are for fans. Right. You can go to Cooperstown, you can go to Cleveland and you can see the plaques and you can revel in the nostalgia. You can argue eligibility and who’s better as a fan. We don’t have that important. So the Avian Hall of Fame, the X R C O Hall of Fame, does it matter to fans? It it’s a name, a list of names on a website. So it, it’s a different thing.

And I think because of that, it has to mean something to the performer.

Speaker 1 (34m 3s): Yeah. Or in this case, the the critic,

Speaker 2 (34m 6s): The, the contributor. I, I think another odd thing for Hall of Fame in, in, in porn, in, in baseball. What, it’s five years after you’re retired. Yep. Before you’re eligible. Okay. You’re, you’re probably done. If you’re out for four years, you’re probably not coming back. True. And Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think it’s 25 years after your first studio album. Okay. You’re, you’re established. Yeah. In, in porn. It’s 10 years after you started and now lots of performers are still going strong at 10 years. Angela White’s first eligibility year was right in the middle of her threepeat for Performer of the year, for goodness sakes.

Hmm. We’re gonna put her on the Hall of Fame while she’s winning. You know, it’s kinda like you’re gonna put Jordan in the Hall of Fame while he is winning MVPs. I mean, you could,

Speaker 1 (34m 47s): I’ve always kind of, I’ve always kind of been okay with things like that. I, I kind of think the waiting, the five year waiting period in baseball is kind of ridiculous. I’d say if somebody retires and they’re clearly a hall of famer, whether they be Derek Cheater or whether they be, I’m sorry, Barry Bonds, he should be in, you put him in the hall right away.

Speaker 2 (35m 7s): I like that idea. And I, and I agree with you by the way, bonds should be in, it’s, it’s ridiculous that

Speaker 1 (35m 13s): You, my God, one of the best hitters of all time. And these writers don’t get me started on these baseball writers. Oh my dear God, I had to deal with these guys in the press box and they’re, they’re bullshit. When I was in college working as an intern for the Giants, and all I can say is what a bunch of frustrated guys who never could play the game. And that’s why they became writers and oh my God, just dealing with them on a daily basis wasn’t enough of a pain in the ass.

And if you’re in the Baseball Riders Association, you’re holier than thou Well guess what guys? Your shit does stink. And Barry Bonds is a hall of famer.

Speaker 2 (35m 58s): Absolutely. And just for the record, adult writers are not an all like baseball writers.

Speaker 1 (36m 4s): I know.

Speaker 2 (36m 5s): We’re not bitter and frustrated and can never be in the game.

Speaker 1 (36m 8s): I, well, I well aware. So what do you think challenges are that are faced by the industry moving forward?

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): I I think right now, one of the biggest is going to be banks. And Yeah. Having money controlled by people who don’t like or don’t trust the industry for whatever reason. You know, I, politics, there’s plenty of Yeah. There, there’s plenty of politics on, on both sides of this issue that make this, unfortunately

Speaker 1 (36m 37s): There’s not enough politics on our side of the issue. That’s true. That’s the worst part.

Speaker 2 (36m 41s): So I think that’s gonna be the biggest challenge is as long as somebody else can cut off the flow of, of funds, then it ruins this sort of new economy. Right. The new individual performer as producer. That, that depends on a trustworthy and reliable payment plan.

Speaker 1 (36m 59s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37m 0s): And that didn’t used to be a problem. Right. You go, you shoot, get your check from an established producer and you’re fine. Now the performers are more vulnerable to that and I think that’s gonna be a big challenge. And then if DVDs go away and big studios go away, I think performers are going to face the challenge of how do they market themselves.

Speaker 1 (37m 23s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37m 23s): Right. Back in the eighties, women who wanted to do well on feature dance, dance circuits got themselves in a couple of porn box covers that promoted their dance careers. Hmm. Some Kim models wanna come out and do a couple of porn movies for a well-established company because you get yourself in a Jules Jordan movie or a browsers movie, you’re gonna be in front of a lot more eyeballs. And I think that’s gonna be the challenge. And I don’t know exactly how that’s gonna work. And maybe it doesn’t have to maybe cause there’s a lot of cam performers that do just fine.

They, they get their, their core audience. They do what they do really well and they’re fine with it. And maybe that’s what happens with performers. And then you just, word of mouth gets around, you do a couple of scenes with other popular creators and you, you build that way. But again, I think what will happen then is it’s going to be those that are really smart about it and work really hard. Yeah. And it, it, it’s gonna be more than just who looks the best on camera. It’s gonna take a lot of work.

Speaker 1 (38m 23s): Yeah. You’re absolutely right. And I think that eventually sooner than later, actually we’re going to need, need alternative forms of payment that have nothing to do with, with credit cards. Look, in Europe, there’s never really been credit card acceptance. And it’s a small percentage. It’s larger than it used to be, but it’s still a small percentage of the overall way people pay for porn and for everything else.

So I think people are gonna have to start getting more creative in what they accept. And I think crypto’s gonna be part of that.

Speaker 2 (39m 2s): And, and that’s gonna mean a a whole lot of reeducation, you know,

Speaker 1 (39m 6s): Big time,

Speaker 2 (39m 7s): Big time. And you know what, you know, what’ll happen then people will develop scams and, you know, it, it’s

Speaker 1 (39m 12s): People

Speaker 2 (39m 13s): Like that are always one step ahead of the game. So

Speaker 1 (39m 16s): Unfortunately

Speaker 2 (39m 17s): Yeah. That, that’s gonna be, I think the biggest challenge is finding a, a, a good income source.

Speaker 1 (39m 23s): Yes. Absolutely. What’s your take on content-based censorship?

Speaker 2 (39m 28s): We mentioned a little earlier about how some of the things have changed after Black Lives Matter, some of the way interracial and, and racial play has changed in general. I think content-based censorship is, is really frightening. Not because I think everything is okay, but because I don’t think I should decide what’s, okay. I shouldn’t tell you what you should watch and you shouldn’t tell me what I can watch as long as everybody Sure. Involved is a consenting adult human being. Right. And those are three really important criteria.

Right. Completely consenting of age and human beyond that it’s none of my business what role someone wants to play. If that is offensive to me or to someone else and someone is allowed to be offended and not wanna watch it. That that’s perfectly fine. I, that’s the kind of censorship I believe in. It starts with me and what I turn

Speaker 1 (40m 22s): On and off self censorship. Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s called America. It’s called the First Amendment. It’s called Free Speech.

Speaker 2 (40m 28s): But when, you know, some of the, the clip stores took down certain types of content, specifically race play, which is fine. I have no interest in watching it. I don’t understand it. Right. But, okay, so that can be taken away. But we all know how popular, you know, fest is also nothing that appeals to me. I don’t trust anybody to make the censorship decisions for me. And I don’t trust myself to make it for anybody else. And that’s, I I I think we walk a scary line because if you say, well, this is offensive.

Really? Yeah. Okay. For sure. This is offensive to you, but you know what the prettiest, most romantic couples porn you could ever imagine in the last 30 years is offensive to that one third to one half of the country that finds porn

Speaker 1 (41m 15s): Offensive. Well, but you understand why those types of content are being taken down. It’s being dictated by the banks.

Speaker 2 (41m 23s): Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41m 25s): And if that’s your money flow, these companies are too scared not to take it down.

Speaker 2 (41m 31s): Yeah. And to me, and I don’t usually, usually like slippery slope arguments, but I think it applies here because if, if it offends 10% of the population, we have to take it down. Well then what if it offends 5% of the population? Yeah. Or it just, it it

Speaker 1 (41m 46s): Feels like, but it seems to be offended by something now.

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): Yeah. I I just, censorship is what I do when I, I wa I choose to watch something different. I just, I fear a little bit because we do have so many legitimate attacks coming from outside that would Oh yeah. Take everything off the table. I used to find this one when I was starting out, there was a big difference between Vivid and Wicked and Evil Angel and Max Hardcore. It’s like, yeah, there is, but at the same time, there isn’t because the further back you get, we’re all in this same bubble that people would be happy to squash.

Yeah. Regardless, it really doesn’t matter to them which of these two is more extreme or more offensive.

Speaker 1 (42m 27s): Well, absolutely. And I didn’t, I wasn’t insinuating that what the payment companies are doing is right. I’m just saying that that’s the reality that the sites have to deal with. So that’s the situation. Now, finally, what do you think about the whole run Jeremy’s situation?

Speaker 2 (42m 44s): I think it is incredibly sad. And this is something that’s been talked about in the industry for a long time. And I’m gonna tell you, I’ve been around a long time, been around Ron. I wouldn’t say we were ever close. I I never particularly liked his vibe. Just

Speaker 1 (43m 2s): I hear you.

Speaker 2 (43m 4s): But I never saw any behavior like, like what he’s been accused of. Right. But Ex Biz did a great rundown of all the accusations and it’s hard to read when, when you read.

Speaker 1 (43m 17s): I know. I saw that. And it was, it was just mind blowing. Oh,

Speaker 2 (43m 20s): It, it, it was heartbreaking too. And to realize this was going on and a lot of people knew about it. Sure. And I think, and I think some of it just the industry kind of played into to that sort of silly goofiness. And I think we allowed ourselves to turn our back on how someone can be powerful and popular and do horrible things just like mainstream Hollywood. Just like sports, just like politics. His story sadly isn’t unique.

Speaker 1 (43m 51s): Not at all.

Speaker 2 (43m 52s): But the fact that it took so long in our industry kind of saddens me because Right. A lot of the shaming came from within our own community and this idea that because of who they are, they can’t be assaulted. Yeah. It just, no, he’s

Speaker 1 (44m 8s): No different. He’s no different than Harvey Weinstein. Really?

Speaker 2 (44m 11s): Yeah. He, he really isn’t. And I think it’s kind of sad, he, he’s probably never gonna stand trial for what he’s done. And I hope knowing that at least he, he’s in jail for probably the rest of his life can bring some closure to some people. Yeah. I think we’re gonna see some, some books written about it. Oh, sure. I think, and I think we, hopefully we’ve learned from it.

Speaker 1 (44m 34s): I hope toxic masculinity is something that’s going away.

Speaker 2 (44m 40s): I think everybody got caught up in, in his persona and the fact that honestly, probably the most well-known porn star for a time on the planet bigger than any of the, any of the women. Yeah. And part of that was, was goofing on himself and people goofing on him, but it didn’t matter. There he is, he’s in movies, he’s in music videos, he’s hosting events, and he got away with it because that’s who he was. And I’ll tell you, I, like I said, I never really stayed very close because I like his vibe, but I know a lot of people that I love and respect in this business who swore by him.

He’s a, he’s a great guy. He’s a great guy. Yeah. You know, and it was like, but this and this, yeah. That, that’s not true. Like, well now almost everybody has had to come around and say, yeah, he’s, he’s got some issues. Well, I think that’s an understatement.

Speaker 1 (45m 29s): My, my dear old mother used to say, well, there’s smoke, there’s fire, and man, there’s a, there’s a forest fire around that guy.

Speaker 2 (45m 36s): Absolutely. Well,

Speaker 1 (45m 37s): Hey Roger, I’d like to thank you for being back with us again today on Adult Side Broker Talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (45m 45s): Anytime. It’s my pleasure. Thank you so much. My

Speaker 1 (45m 48s): Broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about converting traffic and improving your user experience. Make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer isn’t good, you won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or to get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you’re selling something, make buying easy. Show them an easy way to buy and then leave.

Help them by making suggestions on what to buy. amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this if you can. Don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to take.

It’s not that hard. Just remember, when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process like a human being. Whatever you do, don’t turn over that process to your designer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other and will not give you what it is you’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next time and next time we’ll be speaking with Amy-Marie Merrill of The Cupcake Girls.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Roger T Pipe. We’re gonna take next week off for the holidays and be back again in 2023. Talk to you next time on Adult Siate Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Jay Moyes of High Octane Heart Media and pr. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 @adultsitebroker.com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog.

1 (53s):
Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. That’s right. Now when you refer buyers or sellers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASBcash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer a successful gay site that has increased revenues and profits year over year for a decade.

1 (1m 37s):
The site has 835 active members. The best part about the site is that it basically runs itself. The director producer is happy to continue handling all the content, production, editing, and updates. All you have to do is to continue to take care of payroll and you’ll make your complete return on your investment safely and quickly. The content is hardcore gay porn with a strategic focus on a few niches, which have been fine tuned for over 10 years into dependable, underserved markets. All of the content is exclusive with an influx of cash and a dedicated team to help grow the brand. There’s a lot of opportunity.

1 (2m 18s):
Some of the content is on D V D and V O D, but there’s a huge opportunity to increase V O D revenue streams. Best of all, if the buyer doesn’t change anything, it’ll continue and make a significant profit only $440,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Say, broker Talk is J Moise of High Octane Heart Media and pr. Jay, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

2 (2m 49s):
It’s a pleasure. Thank you so much.

1 (2m 51s):
It’s a pleasure to finally have you. Jay, besides his PR company, is also an artist specializing in fetish artwork. He’s been a professional in the adult industry since the 1990s, beginning in San Francisco and then moving to Los Angeles forever. Why, I don’t know. Anyway, in 1999, AVN brought in J to work in the Art and Archives Department, where he would eventually become production manager. Before moving on, Jay partnered with Sherry Ziegel Meier, I hope I’m saying that right, to create black and blue media, a publicity firm catering to adult businesses. And the pair did publicity for S L L A B, Michael n and Platinum, platinum Blue Productions.

1 (3m 35s):
Ziegel Meyer passed away, sadly from cancer in 2020, leaving Jay to close the firm and begin High Octane Heart Media. They specialize in working with small adult business. Current clients include the Dungeon Store, who you’ve heard on Adult Side Broker Talk, a curated collection of high-end B D S M gear, sl U S A, who you’ve also heard on adult side broker talk. I think I see a trend here, quite possibly the world’s most powerful sex toy and kinky franchises of Mr. Cyan, like Sanctuary LAX and Dom Con. So Jay, in two minutes or less, who the heck are you?

2 (4m 11s):
Well, I’m a kinky artist who just happens to make a living an adult, mainly running a publicity business. Right. I’ve done odd jobs, worked for a dungeon fantasy makers up in the Bay Area Q sm. That was a BDSM bookstore. I worked for The Spectator. I worked when I came down here to La

1 (4m 37s):
Spectator. I haven’t heard that

2 (4m 38s):
Name Lane

1 (4m 40s):
In 30, 40 years.

2 (4m 42s):
Oh, that was so much fun.

1 (4m 43s):
Are they gone now?

2 (4m 45s):
They are. They are. Catton Lane tried selling the company and somebody did buy it, but unfortunately the timing on it just wasn’t right. It just, that was like right at the, because the thing is classified were what kept a, a mag like that in business. Yeah. And Craigslist. Between Craigslist and porn on the internet. Yeah. That just pretty much dried up everything. Yeah. And they, the thing is, is that when you run a news rack like that, you, you can’t really give it away. Yeah. I mean, you’re classified are really your profit. Yeah. But in terms of what they were doing, that little like 75 cents that you put in the box, that’s actually what, what kept them in the black.

2 (5m 34s):
Ah, and with that gone, you know, they, they tried, like, they tried going online and a few things. Well, they, lane and Kat tried that. They found someone to take the reins and inject new blood, but they just, they tried keeping going for a little while and it just petered out.

1 (5m 54s):
Oh, that’s a shame. Well, please con, please continue. So you, you were at the Spectator and then,

2 (5m 59s):
And I moved down to la I did some other stuff down here. I was an extra for some vivid video movies. Ah, and my, yep. I, I I, I’ve been in some pornos. Ah, excellent. And my big break came was avn. I wound up spending six years in the Avian art department. I like to call it my bachelor’s degree in porn. Yeah. Learned a lot. And then Eddie Van Halen was dipping his toe into porn, and he recruited me to work for his new porn company. It was called Slab oh s Yeah. Balls fell backwards. He liked to do that. He’d take, you know, you know, he had another one.

2 (6m 40s):
Oh God, I can’t, yes. Up Yes. Up, which is pussy spelled backwards and had some fun there. And with Sherry. Yeah. Our clients included Michael Nn Sky blue of Platinum Blue production. And so I’ve been around.

1 (6m 57s):
You have indeed. What was it like working with Eddie Ren Halen?

2 (7m 2s):
The one thing I’ll admit right away, it sounds great to say, but it, you know, I, oh, you could write a book on that. No, actually it was great. It was inspiring. It was mind blowing. It panic conducing. I

1 (7m 23s):

2 (7m 24s):
But the, to be completely candid, it wasn’t the best time. Okay. And part of it was he was dipping his toe into porn and he really didn’t know what he was getting into. Sure. We could do like an entire show on that. And be honest, that’s probably something that should be, my part in that chapter is actually very, very, very small.

1 (7m 49s):

2 (7m 50s):
I did artwork for Slab. I was a production manager, production assistant. I can’t remember what we called the title. It was basically, Jay, I want you to come work for me. We’ll set up something through my business manager. And, and so I worked with some, you know, I worked with a number of his people. And to end that chapter, so to speak, what eventually happened was he would talk about this network that he wanted to create, and he wanted this roster of, but he always fixated on Michael Nn. Sure. And so picked the best. Right? Yeah. And he would call me like at like three in the morning.

2 (8m 31s):
Hey, hey, you, you wake, we gotta talk. And this was not one of the, not one of his high points. Ah, things got better later. In my opinion. Janie was one of the best things that ever happened to him. His wife, who he met, she was, she was Michael N’s publicist. Ah. And so what happened was, I’m like, look, you just really want Michael Nn to make movies for you, don’t you? That’s really it. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, yeah. I’m like, you know, honestly, we should have just gotten down a brass tacks about that to begin with. And I called David over red light pictures n had been selling through Red Light.

2 (9m 16s):
They were the official distributor. I’m like, David, I know this is gonna sound crazy. Eddie Van Halen wants to speak with Michael Nn. This is not a joke. Let me give you, let me give you Eddie Van Halen’s cell phone number. Please have Michael Nn call call Ed. And he did. And he’s, he thought it was funny. He was like, actually, I live nearby. Alex, Alex is one of my neighbors. And it’s like, yeah, I’ll give him the number. Sure. And what wound up happening was Eddie. Yeah, Eddie met Michael and he did sacred sin.

2 (9m 57s):
And he kind of had a realization that he, he wanted to get out, you know, he did it. He hit the high water mark with sacred sin. That was good enough. And they kind of backdoored him out of the adult business. And Janie went with him. Yeah. And they, honestly, I told ’em outright cuz Janie was a stunt woman. I knew her as a stunt woman when she worked for Metro. And she worked for some other porn company because she had been a publicist. I was working at AVN in the art department long ago. But the thing is, is, you know, she also had been a professional stunt woman. And I, I joked with Eddie.

2 (10m 38s):
I like, you know, if you think you can, like, if, if you think you can like roughhouse her or such, you’re gonna need Alex and a few other guys.

1 (10m 48s):
Funny, funny.

2 (10m 50s):
And as funny as it was, she whooped his ass in the shape. He, he cleaned up, he cut his hair, he got a whole bunch of other things done, and he moved forward. And I think that was, I think things would’ve been sadly different if it wasn’t for her.

1 (11m 6s):
Yeah. It was quite a chore getting you on the podcast. Why is

2 (11m 11s):
That? I’m glad you asked

1 (11m 13s):
When I’m glad. I’m glad you’re glad.

2 (11m 15s):
I’m glad you asked. When a publicist is getting more attention than the client, that is a red flag. Yeah.

1 (11m 24s):
You alluded to that.

2 (11m 25s):
My, my client’s, the Dungeon store and SL came first. Yeah. We’ll work on getting some people from Mr. Cens circle on the show soon. But the clients have to come first. I can wait and agree. Yeah. And also with Sherry’s passing, she was on point. We kept certain things separate. Yeah. So when I started going through Sherry’s stuff, I realized I had to, to shut this stuff down. Yeah. And, and start to rebuild. And this was strip, like, stripping a car down to the bare frame. It wasn’t the intended metaphor for high octane heart. It was amazing how coincidences like that happen.

2 (12m 7s):
I wasn’t going to be pushing my business if I couldn’t even race in the game. It’s like, there were, there were some moments where I’m like, you know, why would I go on the air if I’m not really all that? And so I had, I did have self-doubt, but it’s like, you know,

1 (12m 26s):
You should, but you’re damn good.

2 (12m 29s):
Thank you. Thank you. I tried,

1 (12m 30s):
I’ve recommended you. So you’re very good at what, you’re very good at what you do. Talk about the old days at avn. Boy. AV N’S undergone a lot of changes. Changes in ownership, changes in personnel. Talk about the old days with avn,

2 (12m 48s):
Old school porn. PR was about like, well in, sorry, I’m thinking adult. Adult and pr. But the old school adult industry that was obviously more vhs. D V D, A lot of the people are old school salespeople in that it’s a Rolodex and a telephone and it’s, you know, Hey, I, I got a new title out for you. You know, how many units can I sell you? And so like, old school pr you know, it was like sending out some sales kits, maybe a press release, maybe set up some interviews.

2 (13m 39s):
The way it is now, it’s like you’re no longer dealing with as much in print. Visual, visual media is still much, is still very, very important. Right. But you tend to like, have to wear a lot more hats now.

1 (13m 56s):

2 (13m 57s):
True. So the old days, it was like, it was, it was good enough to have like, okay, there’s a few people. You’ve got a, you’ve got your main salesperson, you sell the videos, you collect on the videos, you’ve got a couple people in the warehouse. Now you’ve got these huge content companies. I mean, we would, we thought that Wicked and Vivid were monsters. We think of Hustler as this monster, this giant. Right. And I mean, the camming companies and the content, the, I, I don’t even know, you know,

1 (14m 36s):
Fan sites, clip sites.

2 (14m 38s):
Exactly. The Yeah. Premium social media. Yeah. Like only fans. Yeah. You know, this stuff is, those are monsters because

1 (14m 48s):
Big money. Yeah.

2 (14m 49s):
Yeah. You know, it’s like, you’re thinking in terms of, in terms of porn, you were thinking about like thousands and maybe a million or two because of the internet of things in the world, you really are talking about millions of people. Oh yeah. That influence everything that’s going on.

1 (15m 10s):
Oh yeah. When you hear about creators making 40, 50 million, you don’t have to use your imagination too much and do some multiplication to realize that it’s a ton of money.

2 (15m 24s):
And it’s scary because this also means a lot of infrastructure. This means, whereas like av, we had, we had stalkers and such at avn. You know, we’d get weird letters. I remember I, my desk at AVN was, that was where the receptionist threw the phone calls. She didn’t know what to deal with. Like, I, I literally had a guy, I’ve wondered if this was someone calling from a radio station as a joke. He was trying to sell his video and he wanted to sell and become a porn star. And all it was was him having sex with a blowup doll.

1 (16m 4s):
Oh geez.

2 (16m 5s):
And he thought he was gonna make a

1 (16m 6s):
Money. But you, but you know what, what’s funny about that is there’s, there’s, there’s so many niches. I’m sure there would, there are people who would buy that.

2 (16m 14s):
Well in, in those, you know, maybe one or two. Like, maybe he could walk into a, a video store and go, Hey, hey, would you sell my video? Yeah. But like, I mean the, well, let’s face it, that’s now he could be on 10 different platforms. Yeah. And he could be very disgruntled if it wasn’t doing anything. And then basically like pounding on the door with like a hundred other people on these platforms going, why aren’t you doing more for me? Why are these other people placing more than I am? Yeah. Because people

1 (16m 51s):
Are shit dumb, dumb shit.

2 (16m 54s):
Or his fa or the fans can do rad weird things too. And it’s like, that’s what’s blowing my mind. It’s like, it’s crazy. I see some of this stuff over in the big picture and I’m like, this is, this is, this can be really, really intimidating. It’s like, whereas before it’s like, you know, if somebody paid me enough, I’d put the name of the client on the side of my car. You know, it’s like, you pay me enough, my next cat is named after your product.

1 (17m 22s):
There you go.

2 (17m 24s):
And now it’s like, some of these, it’s like, you know what I, you know, my initial thought was, yeah, you know, we’ll blow it up this set and the other, there’s others. It’s like, it’s really clear. It’s like, I don’t know who’s gonna show up on my doorstep with, with this client or that client. Yeah. And they’ve made that clear to me too. It’s like, you know, it’s the, you know, it’s like, no, this is for your own good.

1 (17m 50s):
Indeed. What do you actually do as a publicist in the adult industry?

2 (17m 56s):
The main thing I do is I write and send out press releases. I coordinate that with social media. So when the press release goes out, I try to make sure in some way or form that we are, the press release goes out it places on a website. That website gets acknowledged on social media and the ideas from there that sends love back to the platforms. The Sure. The AVMs the ex business, but also the other, you know, the others aside from the big three AV and X biz. And why not? Right. And then we try and keep ’em as much momentum as possible to where not only do the regular public kind of keep an eye on this and see this going, but also the mainstream.

2 (18m 47s):
One of the things that I get asked is, well, how do I get into mainstream? And part of it is, if you’ve got enough money you can place in, you might actually, lemme rephrase it. If you’ve got a lot of money you might be able to place in mainstream, you still have to be aware of when you, because there are wire services that will allow you to send out to something to mainstream. But it’s no guarantee that a reporter is gonna see that and pick it up. That’s true. That’s the ideal. The ideal, the ideal is you get the attention of someone from like, rolling Stone, c bs, mainstream, big and small, the radio, you know, try to think of the, try to think of the news stations up in San Francisco back in the day.

1 (19m 31s):

2 (19m 32s):
Yes, exactly.

1 (19m 34s):
My friend, my friend I think is still Stan Bunger, I think is still the Morning Drive news host there.

2 (19m 41s):
Oh wow.

1 (19m 42s):
Oh, we went to college together at SF State. I’m not sure if Stan didn’t retire. I don’t recall. But he, last time I heard, had been the anchor there forever. He took a little bit of a break and went to Dallas for some strange reason and then came back. So, in fact, funny story, I was sitting in with him in Dallas. Cause I was down there for a football game and I was sitting in the studio with him the day that the Lorena and John Bobbi decision came down from the court on what to charge her with.

2 (20m 14s):
Oh my God.

1 (20m 15s):
There wasn’t a drug in the place that was the same. Oh my God. That was the same day that Jimmy Johnson predicted a victory against the 49ers. And unfortunately he was so Right. But anyway, continue. What do you continue with what you do?

2 (20m 30s):
So that is, that is part of the holy grail is to, to get that placed in, in so to get that placed by the mainstream, keep the awareness out. Build the brand. Sure. And so the thing is, is like, and this is where some of the nuances come in of like, okay, so if you are going to send out through a wire service, it has to be very carefully worded. You usually have to keep it much shorter. Yes. You have to be aware that your press release is probably not going to get published. Especially not by the people you’re, you want it to go to, in that case, the release is very specifically to have that reporter, writer, blogger, producer.

2 (21m 16s):
Very important. You know, a lot of people think that the news anchors are the ones that do, are the ones that are in charge. It’s like hardly, you know, you’re producer director. Yes. So you want those people to, you know, those are the ones that are gonna make the call and go, Hey, get this person in the studio. Get this person on the phone, get this person an email, go interview. And so there’s differences in how you write the press releases. Hmm. With the adult press, they’re usually publishing your press release right. Back again to history and such. We can thank Kevin Moore for that because he started a thing called stunning curves.com back in the early aughts.

2 (22m 3s):
Hmm. And all he did was he would just copy and paste press releases. Hmm. And so, and other people followed Sue. It was a lot, you know. Okay. The press release came in, copy paste, done. Well then you’ve gotta change how that press release is done. Yeah. Because, you know, typically old school press releases, your press release could be one sentence long or two sentences long. Right. As long as I had a hook. Yeah. Now it’s like, oh shoot, how do I flesh this out? We’ll

1 (22m 36s):
See how, we’ll see how you like my press release when I do the one for this podcast.

2 (22m 41s):

1 (22m 42s):
I’ve got my own style. But I, I understand what you’re saying. So how is PR different from actual marketing in your view?

2 (22m 53s):
Marketing for starters is a really, really broad term. Right. I mean, you know, it’s like there are all sorts of people. Like I’m in marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing.

1 (23m 2s):
Don’t even tell me because, you know, I have marketing company too. So, you know, I know, yeah. I know the answer, but I want to hear your, I want to hear your take on it, which I’m sure is the same as mine.

2 (23m 12s):
Well, typically it’s sales

1 (23m 15s):

2 (23m 15s):
Lot of times and, and advertising. Right. And publicists should be working in conjunction with that. Yeah. Sometimes it’s exclusively multi-level marketing. Hmm. You know, there’s, there’s things like commissions involved. It’s marketing’s usually very, very focused on return on investment. Right. Publicity, you’re really looking more at eyes and building brands. There’s more mojo and hudu in magic in terms of what publicity does. And one does not translate necessarily like a good publicity campaign. We have to be careful because it doesn’t necessarily translate into dollars.

1 (23m 54s):
Yeah, that’s true.

2 (23m 55s):
That’s a really hard thing to gauge.

1 (23m 57s):
Well, no, the idea, the idea of a publicity campaign generally is to generate eyes, to get, to get people to see it

2 (24m 5s):
And build your brand. Well

1 (24m 7s):
Yeah, of course. Of course. You know, the way I, the way I look at marketing and pr I look at marketing. First of all, marketing is not sales. And, and, and it never was. And it never, never will be. Marketing supports sales, marketing causes sales basically causes leads that get turned into sales. And PR is simply a part of an overall marketing plan. And pr and social media should not be your, your entire marketing plan. Your marketing plan should be multifaceted and include many aspects. Although in some cases, PR and social media can be a damn large chunk of

2 (24m 49s):
It. Well also, and they, in terms of marketing and sales, you know, they need to play together with the publicist. Publicist should at least acknowledge and be aware of what marketing is doing and be able to act on the team what

1 (25m 6s):
Marketing is doing or what Mar marketing’s doing, or what sales is doing.

2 (25m 10s):
Well in this case, what marketing is doing more specifically. Okay. The advertising departments and their marketing strategy. Okay. And the, there’s, there’s something that I need to bring up here too is that there’s a thing out there where some publications are paid to play.

1 (25m 26s):

2 (25m 27s):
So if you wannabe be

1 (25m 28s):
Published, Forbes says that ak,

2 (25m 31s):
I believe it Juxtaposed magazine, LA Weekly Village Voice. Oh yeah, yeah. You really, really wanna get their attention. Same

1 (25m 38s):
Owner. Yeah.

2 (25m 39s):
You, you go in through the sales Yes. And a client done. Yeah. Yeah. You can’t assume that the sales department is going to jerk on editorial’s chain and go, Hey, you gotta cover this. But

1 (25m 55s):

2 (25m 57s):
Ger had a a saying in, in in, if you don’t grease the wheels, the cart won’t go. So true. And so back to radio, I had a thing where we reached out to, for Dom Con New Orleans, Mr. Cyan, we reached out to the radio stations in New Orleans and I’m like, this is a complete shot in the dark. I am reaching out to basically anyone who will listen. And the alt 92 3 in New Orleans, someone in there, like in the sales department picked up that, that that little press release with a, Hey, I know this is not what you’re, you know, you’re thing, but we wanted to keep you in the loop as to this is what’s going on.

2 (26m 48s):
And they laughed their fucking ass off. Hmm. And they went, you’ve gotta show this to Thomas.

1 (26m 56s):

2 (26m 56s):
Give the, go over there and give this. You’ve got to, ed Thomas calls me, which is who? And he’s, he was one of their sales guys. Oh, okay. And he’s ac he was actually semi-retired at this point. And he would do things like, he would like fill in on segments, help out, you know, he would be on the air sometimes Okay. Providing color commentary, this, that and the other. And he sees that and he’s like, oh yeah. Oh yeah, we’re good. Oh yeah. And he just like, he, he’s like, gimme the freaking phone. Gimme the phone. And so we, it, we worked out, you know, it’s like, look, we’re low budget, we don’t have a lot to spend. Right. And he is like, I can guarantee you this, that, and the other.

2 (27m 37s):
And what I did was, instead of just going, Hey, we wanna buy some advertising, they were like, we can set you up with, we can set you up with X amount of ad space for here. Right. I’m go, that sounds great. What I want. Yes. Let’s do that. I want to get the dominatrix’s in the studio. Love it on the air. Even if it’s like Saturday night or Friday night. Even if it, even if it’s a recording, especially.

1 (28m 8s):

2 (28m 9s):
We were on at least three nights.

1 (28m 12s):

2 (28m 12s):
Awesome. Like, I mean, and, and things are a little different in radio than they used to be, but we, we weren’t there. I’ll put it this way. We weren’t there for the entire eight hours of shift, but boy, howdy. We got that covered.

1 (28m 26s):
That’s nice. That’s being in radio. Being in radio. I can imagine it. And for everyone who wonders about radio and the old TV show, W K R P, it ain’t that different. At least it wasn’t in those days. So what has been the big game changer in the industry since you left? Avn?

2 (28m 44s):
D V D is out, novelty and online platforms are in, and we’ve gotta be ready for that to change. Hmm. There’s a lot more work to do in social media. Yeah. It’s very, very time consuming. Posting, following up, sharing the graphics are a little easier these days because most stuff is web-based, but high definition is pushing that like, right. It used to be like with AVN you could get away with like, okay, six 40 by four 80 and now they’re sizing up to like, I’m trying to remember the size of their graphic, but it’s something like 10 80.

2 (29m 29s):
Hmm. And that fits in conjunction, you know, we, you know, people, oh, 10 80, that’s, that’s high definition. And it’s like, yeah. But when you’re working in print and you were working in 300 D p I and it’s like, yeah. Now we’re going over people’s heads here. Yeah. When you’re, when you’re talking about high res, you were talking about files that were like, you needed to do, you needed, like, you, you, you needed high speed internet for that or you needed to burn that to a cd. Right. Or put it on a, I mean, I remember it’s like, okay, we’ll send you a jump drive, but you have to

1 (30m 4s):
Send it down. Yeah. I mean, printed has to be a lot higher quality.

2 (30m 7s):
Yeah. But the, they are starting to edge up because the resolutions are getting better. The cell phones are getting clearer.

1 (30m 17s):
Sure. Speeds are going up. Yeah.

2 (30m 19s):
Speeds are going up.

1 (30m 21s):
I’ve got gig, I’ve got, I’ve got gig internet here in Thailand. So,

2 (30m 25s):
And so the, the, the big one of the things is you have to be ready to learn new tech and new media. Sure. I do graphics cuz I, I started from the art side. I started from the art department side, but I’ve also had to on the fly, you know, do some video editing. I’ve done coding. We’ve been waiting for 3D to catch fire, you know, but virtual has come in. Oculus is a thing, you know, it’s just a matter of when that becomes the only thing, or it’s just a matter of time of how that gets integrated as the media in terms of Right.

2 (31m 6s):
Like, okay, grandpa, here’s your headset. I wanted to watch tv. We don’t have a TV anymore, dad. This is Yeah.

1 (31m 13s):
I have trouble believing that’s gonna happen anytime in the, in the near future, however, but hey, you never know. We’d also didn’t imagine we’d have these computers in our, these high speed comp, high speed and high quality computers in our hands either. So who the hell knows. Right.

2 (31m 30s):
And I, I had a th like for years people would see me drawing and they would go, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re obsolete. You’re, you’re done. You’re toast. You know, you, you, you’re, you know, it’s, it’s all digital, it’s all graph. And they were telling me this in like 94 and I’m like, look, they’re not gonna replace what I do for artwork until I have a tablet in my hand with a stylist that I can do this right here and now.

1 (32m 3s):

2 (32m 4s):
And that time is now.

1 (32m 5s):

2 (32m 5s):
Yeah. Of course. So, and, and I’ve, I’ve now got my little iPhone. I haven’t got an iPad yet, but I’m Oh, wow. You know, that’s on my mind for, you know. Sure. Like, that’s next step. I’m just, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m like, I’m I’m still, I’m, I’m surrounded by electronics. Just old.

1 (32m 25s):
Oh, tell me about it. Yeah. Tell me about it. Me too. Oh God. Me too. In fact, my New Max arriving today, hopefully not during this interview. So what are the, what are the differences working with porn companies and camp companies?

2 (32m 39s):
Camming is much more corporate from what I’ve noticed. My buddy over at Roger Views had a major camming client and they wouldn’t let

1 (32m 49s):
Him work. Yeah. He’s, yeah. They, yeah, he’s been on our, he’s been on our podcast a couple times As or once and, and soon to be again actually. Yeah.

2 (32m 57s):
Roger is great. Yes he is. And he was ready to send out press releases. He’s like, I’m ready to go. I’ve got this, I’ve got, and they were like, Nope. We’ll let you know when we want you to send out something. You know, don’t call us. We’ll call you. And that’s not how publicists work. When you’re the publicist, you’re always hustling for the client. It’s not a don’t call us, you’ll call you kind of game. And yeah. Discretion is much more important because of just how many masses amount of people are involved. Yeah. Anyone working behind. Like, if somebody’s saying that they work behind the scenes, they can become a target because it’s like, Hey, can you get me un banned?

2 (33m 43s):
Hey, can you get me free this? Hey, can you do this? You know, can I do? And it’s like, when I was at avn, it was like, Hey, can you get me into the Avian Awards? It’s like, no, not really. Not unless you’re my date. You know, it’s like, that wasn’t that many people, it’s like there’s so many people involved in camming and there’s so many people involved in premium social media. Yep. When I worked at avn, it was kind of a big deal that we were like, I think we had like kissed 100 people, but not, I don’t think we had actually reached that number. Just working there in the office.

2 (34m 24s):
Yeah. I honestly, I never actually get to see how big the iceberg is on some of those companies. Like Hmm. Like, you know, we, you know, it’s very easy to think of like only fans as like two or three guys.

1 (34m 38s):

2 (34m 38s):
But there’s usually more corporate structure behind that in terms of tax.

1 (34m 45s):
Oh, massive. Massive.

2 (34m 46s):
Yeah. Just

1 (34m 47s):
Legal. Just legal a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

2 (34m 52s):

1 (34m 52s):
That’s, it’s a v moth. Let’s face it mean. I know. And by the way, I happen to know one of the owners. But anyway.

2 (34m 57s):
Yeah. And by the way, this is one of when someone goes, you know, oh my gosh, YouTube screwed me. Or Oh my gosh, Twitter screwed me. There’s some, there’s some Instagram fucked me, there’s some pissy, I bet there’s some pissy guy in customer service that has it out for No,

1 (35m 15s):
No, it’s ai.

2 (35m 17s):
It’s the lawyers.

1 (35m 18s):
It’s the lawyers. It’s ai. And then it’s a ai

2 (35m 21s):
Yeah. The, well the software kicks it off. Yeah. But the, the lawyers are the ones that look at that and go, you know, they’re the, and and give the final say. So. Sure. And there’s, you know, with YouTube, we’re kind of lucky that they’ve got that strike system set up. But even then it’s kind of like, well, why, why did this happen? Because there was a lawyer some somewhere that said, are you willing in a court of law to say that you allowed this, that, or the other?

1 (35m 54s):

2 (35m 55s):
And it’s like, and it just becomes no question At that point, you know, we might see something as kind of, you know, really gray, what’s the big deal? It’s like, look, no, we, we can have our servers. Oh yeah. And this is international, right. So it’s like, you know, like with what’s going on in Russia, it’s like, yeah, dude, we, we can have, you know, if it’s serious enough, we Oh shoot you, I remember when there were web guys getting arrested in Costa Rica.

1 (36m 23s):
Oh yeah.

2 (36m 24s):
Cause they were like, ah-huh. You know, we’re, we’re in Costa Rica, the United States can’t touch us extradition. Good luck. And it’s like, it’s like, yeah, but you guys are basically there on a handshake. Yeah. And the State Department pulled strings.

1 (36m 40s):
Hey. And the, the long arm of the US never underestimate that. So what’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned in this business?

2 (36m 49s):
I would say the biggest lesson I’ve learned would be turn, turn your weaknesses into challenges. When I was in my twenties, it was a lot more about looking at your weak. You know, where are my weaknesses? Where are my strengths? Let’s put the weaknesses aside. Let’s focus on our strengths. And as I’ve gotten older, that has, that’s very seriously changed. I’ve realized my shortcomings are challenges that I have to address in order to get ahead. Right.

2 (37m 29s):
Sherry did not wanna do novelty, she didn’t wanna do pleasure products. She was laser focused on video. And that was so dead. We were lucky to get the clients we got after N Works and after the stock market crash. But old school porn sales moved on to pleasure products. So when, when we, when I had to close the doors for black and blue media and I was starting High Octane, I was approached by Anne over at the Dungeon store and I had done a little bit of novelty publicity, but I, I welcomed them because Sure.

2 (38m 12s):
I was not going to move forward until I took on that challenge and learned. That’s good. And I, yeah, I’ve failed, I’ve changed strategies, failed again. I’ve had some victories. I’ve had some more victories. And we keep changing until we keep winning. And, and then we keep, keep we keep changing and winning some more more.

1 (38m 35s):
Always have to be willing to change.

2 (38m 38s):
Yeah. And they, Anne and Brittany, they have been so patient in that regard.

1 (38m 44s):
Brittany’s awesome.

2 (38m 45s):
Yeah. And I love them for it.

1 (38m 46s):
Well I really enjoyed having her on. So, is publicity something I can do myself? Or is it better to hire a professional? And along with that, how can I justify the expense?

2 (38m 59s):
Well, you, you have and I even, oh, you mean can someone out there actually do their own someone

1 (39m 4s):
Out there? Yes, I do. I actually do have some expertise being a marketing consultant. But, and, and the, the people out there should, can they do it themselves or should they hire someone? I know, I know what my answer would be, but I want yours

2 (39m 19s):
Short term’s. Yes. And writing a press release is actually pretty basic. It’s, it’s high school level. That’s true. High school journalism at the most, the harder part is getting the releases placed in getting to know the press. So I mean, like, if you could, if it, you’re essentially, especially with porn publicity, you’re writing, you’re writing like a one page article. Yeah. It’s a matter of getting to know the press, getting to know who the contacts are. This is very, very much about the relationships and there’s a lot of people Yeah.

2 (39m 59s):
I’ve never even met in person that I am very cordial with. Oh.

1 (40m 3s):
Because otherwise that become friends. Yeah.

2 (40m 6s):
Yeah. Cause otherwise,

1 (40m 8s):
Like you and me, cuz we’ve, yeah. We’ve connected and we’ve become friends and we’ve never met. Yeah.

2 (40m 14s):
It’s also very time consuming. Yeah. This is something that on some scale you might be able to delegate in a business, but you have to ask yourself, is it cheaper to have a full-time employee do this? Is it cheaper for me to do this? Or can I have someone else handle it for less? And and so Yes. Yes. The the benefit to, you know, if you are, you know, if you’re a single person with a single company and you can delegate the time and make yourself available, they will love you for it because it really helps when you’re available.

2 (40m 58s):
Yeah. You know, if they’re, this is how some people’s like how the fuck does he keep getting on that show? How the hell, because he cuz he can be there. Yeah. You know, it’s like they, they start to realize, hey, well Neil Tyson deGrasse is, you know, he’s like, you know, he, I, you know, he, he was like the guy, he was like the scientist who would be like, yes, I’m the guy that’s there for you. Ask me your questions. Yeah. I don’t care how st He’s like, I welcome your questions cuz it means I don’t have to write grants today. Matter of factly would, if, would you like to write a grant for grant application for me? I will gladly do your show.

1 (41m 37s):
Yeah. I love, I love him on Bill Marsh’s show. I haven’t seen him for a while and I, I’m sure we’ll see him soon. He’s Yeah, he’s fantastic. So what red flags should someone look for when screening a publicist

2 (41m 50s):
Placement? Ask a publicist who their clients are. You don’t have to ask ’em for references. Just go, okay, who’s your clients? And do a Google search. Something should come up on the client. You know, Bruce, your press releases have placed in XYZ avn and why not? Those targets aren’t mandatory, but it’s a really good example that clients should come up somewhere in a search. Yep. I I, I’ve had one or once or twice, like when I, when I meet somebody and it’s like, okay, who’s your publicist? X, Y, Z?

2 (42m 30s):
It’s like, okay, let me, let me do a Google search on your, on your, on your company. And the only press release that came up within a year of service was the press release that the company had hired on publicist.

1 (42m 44s):
That’s hilarious.

2 (42m 46s):
You don’t want that to be the only thing they say.

1 (42m 48s):
Oh, no. Yeah. Hey, I got a question along with that. Would you think, and I, I guess I, well I know I have somebody in particular in mind. He, he, we can talk about this off air, but do you think that it’s a strength or a weakness for someone to have a huge roster of clients

2 (43m 11s):
As long as they’re getting the love? The first complaint I’d hear from someone’s publicist, I’m sorry, the first complaint I’d hear about someone’s publicist is they’re not doing anything. Yeah. And once again, it’s kind of back to the placements. Like Brian Gross has a team. Yes. You know, I, Brian’s,

1 (43m 32s):
Brian’s awesome

2 (43m 33s):
And, and I, I mean I I’m, there was one point I’m like, dang, when does this guy sleep? I, I like to think of this more as a boutique. Things are much, you know, I I I I aimed for sustainability versus

1 (43m 46s):
Like, and my company is exactly the same way. Jay, maybe that’s one of the reasons we get along so good is that adult site broker I considered to be a boutique

2 (43m 55s):
There. You and it’s very comfortable to have that. Yes. And so, like, if, if there’s a, if there’s a high, high volume of clients and they’re getting their needs met, they’re getting their placements, that’s okay. That’s good. And you know, there’s, there’s also been this thing of like, well, well what happens if the publicist is moonlighting? And are you getting your needs met? And if you know, if the answer is yes, then well then that’s fine. You know, is is, is it, is, is, is there rate a good value? That’s great. But the, yeah, the, the, one of the problems I’d run into, back to the, the publicist, there was a guy who, he was a publicist, but what he really wanted to do was direct.

2 (44m 44s):
And I’m not kidding. That’s, and he was good at it. Yeah. He was good at it. But the problem would happen in that he was doing publicity for video companies and, and these video companies would come back to him and they’re like, your movie came first. Yeah. And so it’s like, you know, so the, so the, the, the client, the clients took second in terms of priority.

1 (45m 16s):

2 (45m 17s):

1 (45m 17s):
That should never

2 (45m 18s):
Happen. That Yeah. Especially given he was their competition.

1 (45m 21s):
Ah, geez.

2 (45m 23s):

1 (45m 24s):
They never, well the company should have never put themselves in that situation knowing that, that he was a competitor. As far as I’m concerned. I think I, I think that was a bad move on their part. So what are some things people should never do with the press?

2 (45m 42s):
Anything to set them off? The first mistake I’ve seen executives make are bullying the press and, oh, I’ve got this. And then it’s like, you know, I’ll, you know, you’re, you know, the Eddie, we have that problem with Eddie Hmm. In that he was like, well, I’ll tell Avian what to print and they’ll, they’ll have to pay me to be in their magazine. And I’m sure there would’ve been one or two people that would’ve actually been fine with that. But the thing was, was that it was like, you know, it’s like, no, I, I get to read the articles first and this, and it’s like, the news does not work for you. Right. And mainstream publici, the the mainstream reporters Yeah.

2 (46m 25s):
The mainstream press, they know bullshit a mile away. You know, you come in throwing your, if we come in throwing our weight around, try and bully the press, try and pull some of the alpha male moves. They’ll, they, it’s like, you know, I, I actually, I’ve seen news people go, we’re done. Yeah. What do you mean we’re, we’re done? We’re That’s it. You know, had enough. Yeah. You’re

1 (46m 50s):
Not getting published. Sorry. Yeah.

2 (46m 53s):
And the, in the middle of the, in the middle of the like a live interview. Oh, geez. And yeah, so it’s like, be polite, say thank you. Yeah. If you, if you can, if you can budget some, add revenue. I mean, I’ve got, I’ve got several people, believe it or not, on Patreon. Hmm. To where just, you know, the, just to, just as a way to say thank you, share the love. Hmm. And on the flip side, yeah. If you want writers to love you and reporters to love you, be available. Yeah, sure. Brian is actually much better than that, than, than I am. I’ll admit that in a second. But the, that is part of what they want, that’s part of what they love.

2 (47m 33s):
Once you’ve established that relationship, make sure they have your mobile number. You know, it’s like if they’ve called you and said, Hey, we, you know, we’d like to have you on the show sometime, or, Hey, would you like to come? It’s like, here’s my number. If you need me, I’ll be right there. Sure. And you and I have experienced this with people where they’ll have trouble getting the time to do the interview. Yeah. You want the press to love your business. Go, Hey, I can do this right now. Yeah. Just say the time. I’ll make room.

1 (48m 2s):
Yeah. I’ve got weird hours. So I understand that, that sometimes it’s a little difficult for people. And one of your clients had a little bit of trouble with my schedule and I decided I would just make it work because, you know, in the end I need guests too. And I also wanted to make it good for you. So

2 (48m 20s):
Thank you. Thank you. Well,

1 (48m 22s):
Well you’re welcome. Look, this relationship is important to me. You bring me guests, you’ve now come on the podcast yourself. So it’s, it’s very important. And that’s, there’s a value there. So it’s very important that I keep you happy as well. I, so yeah, it works both ways. It’s all about the love. It’s all about the love. Well, Jay, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

2 (48m 50s):
It’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

1 (48m 52s):
The pleasure’s all my, my broker tip today is part one of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. First, make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic is expensive, whether it’s search engine, traffic review, site traffic, or affiliate traffic. You pay it a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity to either spend money or do whatever it is you want your visitors to do. In the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay. In North America, most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world, credit cards aren’t used nearly as much.

1 (49m 37s):
In Europe, for instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from. In Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa, in other developing areas. Many people pay by mobile. Do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions. You get most of your traffic, it’ll make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy. But since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t. If you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this is to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate.

1 (50m 18s):
People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user. You poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out. Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Roger T Pipe of Rog Reviews. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Jay Moyes. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

1 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week, we’ll be speaking with AEBN co-founder, Jay Strowd. Adult site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adultsitebroker.com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog.

1 (53s):
Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to present a one of a kind, unique, and legendary site.

1 (1m 34s):
It’s a pro amateur ethnic reality site. Founded in 2005, the site is styled after popular late night variety shows such as The Tonight Show. Viewers never know what to expect with a variety of different performers from brand new amateur talents to famous porn stars, there’s no other website quite like it. The site continues to grow and expand with no major competitors in this niche. What makes it unique is 100% original content that has uncensored and unscripted reality TV style scenes. They let the performers be themselves while having fun filming their video.

1 (2m 15s):
Trailers are short episodes that engage the viewers and are immensely popular online. Almost all the traffic is organic with some affiliate traffic. It runs on a custom built script, which has been maintained and updated. The site gets about 20 joins and 40 rebuilds a day. This iconic site is available for only 1.4 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Jay Stroud, c o of a E B N. That’s a lot of letters. Jay, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

2 (2m 52s):
Oh, thank you for having me.

1 (2m 54s):
It’s a pleasure and an honor, sir Jay was born and raised in North Carolina where he, he still lives. You will hear the accent from an early age. He likes that from an early age, he had a fascination with the utilization of the technology in innovative ways to communicate and produce art. Initially, it was 3D holography, and later in the late eighties and nineties, he was an avid follower of the evolution of vr. I didn’t know it went back that far. Oh, yeah. He studied at the Savannah College of Art and Design, where he was introduced to video editing and various 3D animation and graphic design applications. And finally, the internet, which helped drive the inception of a ae.

1 (3m 39s):
He took a job at a web design company in Charlotte and one night at a local gentleman’s club into a few of those myself with some friends, how, come on, let’s say a titty bar with some friends. They determined they should start creating a dull entertainment websites as a side business. The next day he did some research and connected with the local guy who was selling VHS tapes via a mail order site. Yes, that’s the way it always starts, Jay. He started working with him in the warehouse filling the daily orders, and a e BN was born a few years later during his web design, using his web design background and experience working with video, he began researching and testing web video and streaming technologies.

1 (4m 19s):
Of course, at the time, most adult sites were subscription based image sites. Jay and his friends launched a bns pay per minute video streaming media in 1999, which started with only five people. Jay has worn many hats at a, he’s recently returned to attending industry events where we met in Prague, and as a co-founder, he finds himself stepping into the role of being the voice of a n after being behind the scenes for many years now, a n was formed in 1999, has been an award-winning technology innovator and trusted distribution partner for the adult industry for over 20 years. A e n was formed, as I said, in 1999.

1 (5m 2s):
I’m repeating myself now. At the time, video streaming technology was still in its infancy, but the founders of a n immediately recognized the impact this technology could have on customers looking for an easy and discreet way to purchase adult content. In the weeks and months that followed, they developed and launched a unique adult video on demand service that revolutionized content delivery. That pay per minute model became the blueprint for the entire industry. One that is still used today, it’s flagship VOD site. AE bn.net averages over 150 million unique visitors each month and reaches approximately 4% of the world’s population every day.

1 (5m 43s):
That’s a mindblower. It’s also home to the world’s largest adult library housing over a hundred thousand adult titles from over 1500 studios. So Jay, I’m tired after that. Yes, sir. Ready for a nap.

2 (5m 57s):
You made it pretty through that pretty well.

1 (6m 0s):
Yeah, and I edited what you gave me a lot.

2 (6m 3s):

1 (6m 4s):
You. So, but that was all very important. So Jay, when you started ABN Video Streaming was something brand new today. It’s obviously the standard, not only in adult, but in mainstream. Did you ever dream that what you were starting was truly revolutionary?

2 (6m 20s):
Not at the time, to be perfectly honest. For us, it was. It was the challenge, you know, for, you know, the initial group of us. I mean, I think probably, you know, a few of the people had an eye on what we were doing. From my perspective, it was really about digging into the technology. I’ve always been driven by trying to make things work that

1 (6m 48s):
Yeah, well, you’re a tech

2 (6m 50s):
Out of the box solution for

1 (6m 53s):
Right, right.

2 (6m 54s):
When my partner asked me, you know, he’s like, we, how do we get these videos online? It’s like, oh, well, let me do some checking and we’ll figure out, and with a little bit of time and well quite a bit of time and determination, we finally made it happen.

1 (7m 14s):
Yeah. So you, you coded the whole thing yourself?

2 (7m 18s):
No, I brought in a long time friend of mine from, we grew up together in high school and he had been doing some Y2K programming, coball, and, you know, I was much more oriented towards graphic design and Right. And video technologies. So I looked at my buddy and was like, you know, you would be, you have a great mind for database and backend programming come to the dark side. It didn’t take a whole lot of persuasion. So he and I would just work in our garage, you know, work on the technologies and the site and putting together a prototype.

2 (8m 6s):
And our other partner would, who was our front man at the time, I won’t mention his name in case he no longer wants to be associated, but you know, most everyone is familiar with him. You know, he’d bring the investors by our house and we’d give them demos sitting there in the garage. It’s that classic tech story, I suppose.

1 (8m 30s):
Yeah, interesting. So what kind of challenges did you incur initially? I’d imagine with the internet still being quite slow that it made what you were trying to do a little bit difficult.

2 (8m 44s):
It was extremely so, you know, I mean, initially there wasn’t much of any streaming going on. There was a whole lot of IEG one down downloads or slow feeds. You know, I’d say the biggest hurdle we faced at, at the time, just in general, was that there were not a lot of ready made apps or software that we used. Sure. Not only for the video, but for our data warehousing. I mean, you know, just anything we would do, we had to build it ourselves.

1 (9m 24s):
Right. You had to create it. Sure.

2 (9m 26s):
Yeah. I hear about a lot of the newer companies, they’re like, oh, we’re using this technology or this, and it’s like, you know, that, that just, that didn’t exist. Yeah. When we were coming up, you know, our content management system, everything had to be custom rolled. So it was, it was quite a project along the way.

1 (9m 46s):
You had to be the innovators.

2 (9m 48s):

1 (9m 50s):
So you started with two friends, and the company now has hundreds of employees. It kind of reminds me of companies, and you talked about this like Apple or Microsoft’s, Microsoft, I can say Microsoft starting in their garage. What made you think this would work way back in 1999?

2 (10m 6s):
Well, we knew that, you know, people had an appetite for adult entertainment. I mean, we saw it and people were using the web for the mail order site and ordering DVDs. And, you know, it just occurred to us that, you know, that was around the time when the, do you remember the old Sprint commercials? 10 cents a minute for long distance. Yeah. Yeah. That, that’s, that fed into the impetus it led to abn. It’s like, okay, well if we could put the video up, what if we just let people buy minutes Sure. And use them wherever they want, you know, and we don’t have to be necessarily behind a pay wall.

2 (10m 48s):
Right. So, so people can actually see the library that we have, the quality of things we have before they have to give us any money. Things were kind of different back then. I mean, you know, we’re talking about coming from growing up without the internet and when phones plugged into the wall. So there was a lot of stigma around the, you know, industry players and some of the tactics that were being used that were less than favorable for a great user experience, let’s say. Right. And, you know, part of our agenda was to set out changing those perceptions and perspectives.

1 (11m 35s):
You guys obviously started the whole streaming thing and, and the, the cost per minute, which is also used in in camming now as well. I mean, they’ve, they’ve adopted that as well. And look, look where that has gone.

2 (11m 51s):

1 (11m 52s):
I mean, it’s huge. It’s absolutely huge. So how is a n different, not only from membership sites, but from tubes and other VOD sites?

2 (12m 1s):
Well, we’re, we are kind of different, and we’re a little bit like each one of those, you know, we do have a clip site or tube style site, porno tube, which was probably one of the first tube sites that was put out there. Initially, as I recall, it was an adjunct to an adult themed community that we were building called X Peeps. And then it just kind of blew into a user upload type site. Then we’ve, we’ve taken it and converted it into an ad free holistic representation of our actual product, and we use it as an upsell Right.

2 (12m 53s):
To upsell the movies and it’s works great in that capacity. So we’ve got, you know, we’ve got a little bit of Tube site. We’ve got, we’ve got some subscription products, you know, we have some, we’ll put some older titles in for and give a, a reasonable monthly subscription price, and people will get unlimited streaming on these older titles. We give them a few paper, paper minute to use on the premium VOD minutes. So we’re a lot more like a hybrid type of model similar to Amazon Prime say.

2 (13m 36s):

1 (13m 37s):
You know. So how has VOD changed in the 23 years since you got started?

2 (13m 42s):
Oh, well, bandwidth and delivery technologies, Kodak. Sure. It’s, it’s come a long way. I mean, you know, I think when we were first starting out, God, I think I, I remember arguing to increase our bit rates to 2 25 K because cable modems could then support them. Yeah. You know, so it’s, it’s gone a long way from, you know, you know, 180 K bit rate to serving out, you know, UHD files now. Yeah. And it seems to be a standard that everyone expects.

1 (14m 24s):
Oh, absolutely. It’s, I don’t think anybody has any patience at all online anymore.

2 (14m 30s):
Nope. No. Yeah. Buffering, you know, network issues. It just, people are, they don’t have to deal with the same issues. And, you know, the quality’s just getting better and better as the codex get better and coding technologies and delivery technologies get better. So

1 (14m 51s):
I remember back then, anytime you wanted to try to watch something, the screen would come up and it would say downloading, you know? Yeah. And you’d get the percentages and it would seem to take forever.

2 (15m 7s):
Oh, yeah.

1 (15m 8s):
That had to be a frustration for both you and your clients.

2 (15m 11s):
Well, we did streaming only, we did not do progressive playback.

1 (15m 18s):

2 (15m 19s):
At the time, which is where it would try to play. You know, when we got into the later versions of EG, it would try to progressive download while you were playing it back. Right. So we were, before progressive playback really was a big thing.

1 (15m 36s):
Right. But it also used to on, on, on technology like that it would say loading with a percentage. Yeah.

2 (15m 43s):
Or we’d get the buffering. Yes. Yes.

1 (15m 46s):
That was amazing. Yeah. I, I think of the internet net then with dial up and I think of it today. I mean, even here in Thailand, I’ve gotta gig down and it’s, it’s wicked fast and there’s, there’s companies offering two gigs, so it’s, yeah. Well, the technology’s arrived. Amen. And ABN invests a lot in collecting data, and you share much of this with the industry and the public. Why do you do this?

2 (16m 12s):
We feel it’s our obligation to, we were going through a couple years ago, one of my cohorts and I, and we were like, God, we’re sitting on all this data and we were trying to sift through it to find some anomalies, do some, some research on our own. And we were like, you know, I had, I had been on a crusade to provide better data to our content partners to assist them in make those that wanted to in Sure. Using the data to make educated decisions about things that were more successful on our platform.

2 (16m 54s):
And that sort of reporting, you know, a lot of our content partners love it, and they use it all the time. They can say, oh, this scene is why this movie made all these minutes. This scene did all the minutes in this movie. Here’s the actors, actresses, metadata, sex X, everything that’s in this scene. I should make more of that. Exactly. So we’re just trying to help give our partners a recipe for success. When I saw all this past data that we had collected, and that’s, you know, you know, we decided that we should make it available to the industry as a whole, because there were, you know, there’s several people that are publishing similar types of data, but most of it is based upon, you know, free users.

2 (17m 47s):
Yeah. And we were, our, our numbers are based on porn, consumers who pay for the product, which we thought was in a useful data set to compare against all the other data that was being published out there. And, you know, some, I mean, we just found some really interesting anomalies that we want to dig into, get, you know, write some interesting articles, get people’s feedback, make, make the data and ourselves available for any, you know, scholastic or, you know, reporters covering the industry that want to write on the industry.

2 (18m 33s):
You know, we do have plans to expand access to that data so that people can potentially plug in different points and look overlay and look at different trends Right. Where they might cross. Let’s see, one on the downside, one on the upside, you know, so we, it’s, it’s, it’s a project that we found useful, you know, not only for ourselves, but figured the industry might find some use in it as well. So Sure. We put it out there. I’ve had people say we should charge for it, but it just doesn’t seem right to me.

2 (19m 12s):
I mean, you know, in my mind, we succeed together or Right. Not, you know, I mean

1 (19m 20s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. When you give things like that away, you get a lot more back. That’s always been my business philosophy. So, along with that, you recently launched a bn trends.com, and I was looking at some of the articles. I see top selling trends, stars of the third quarter top selling porn stars and third quarter trends. Now, how important is this project to what you do at a

2 (19m 44s):
Well, that is, that’s the project I was, I was referring to when we were amassing, you know, going through all that data and decided to make it publicly available. Right. You know, we go through that data constantly anyway for our own benefits so that we’re refreshing our site and being more accurate with, you know, who are the top stars and product placing, the top selling scenes movies, et cetera. But we figured, once again, it would just be something that would be nice to put out to our industry peers. Right. As an alternative to all the data on free porn users.

1 (20m 29s):
A lot more valuable. Sure.

2 (20m 31s):
Yeah. And, you know, we’re hoping that it will become a much more interactive amongst our team and fun project to work on. Sure. You know, I mean, we’ve seen some really strange anomalies and we’ve had some, some discussions and done some initial looks at like, you know, trends in some of the fetish categories during election years, or, you know, blue collar porn versus white collar porn, you know, and the, because we’ve, we’ve had some people, you know, we’ve seen where, you know, certain categories will be popular and, you know, we’ve had people go, oh, it’s always been big ti big ti for straight is always the top.

2 (21m 19s):
And we’re like, no, that didn’t sound right. And we’ve, I mean, not necessarily 25 years, you know, looking week to week over the past five years maybe it did look like that was the top category, but that has not always been the case.

1 (21m 34s):

2 (21m 35s):
Which is why we publish our, you know, monthly or quarterly categor list and show the movement of the category, different categories on both the gay and straight side over time, so you can kind of begin to see what’s rising or what’s dropping off. Now.

1 (21m 54s):
That wasn’t the pun was it

2 (21m 55s):
Could be.

1 (21m 56s):
Yeah. You never know. You never know what’s, what’s rising when we’re talking about porn.

2 (22m 1s):
That’s right.

1 (22m 2s):
It’s always rising,

2 (22m 4s):

1 (22m 6s):
Is, yeah. I mean, obviously data, big data is, has taken over the world. There’s just no two ways about it. So having in an adult just makes absolutely perfect sense. Have you seen anything, or does anything come to mind? You talked about anomalies. Does anything come to mind that you found particularly strange in the data that you’ve looked at?

2 (22m 30s):
Oh gosh, I’d have to go back. I

1 (22m 32s):
Mean, anything into my notes. I mean, anything, anything that stands out to you

2 (22m 36s):
Right off the top of my head, one of the things I think that immediately springs to mind is the exponential growth of female viewers and where they are watching when we started, and this kind of, pardon me if I go off on a tangent, you know it Please. When we started this, you know, you know, when you come to our site, it’s broken up gay and straight. Yep. You know, and that was under, I’ve, I’ve gotten a lot of questions about that over the years. You know, I aren’t lesbians in the gay side and this, that and the other. And you know, back then our presumption and I think was pretty accurate, was that the main consumer of porn on the internet were, were males.

2 (23m 22s):
Yep. You know, at that point in time. And now we are seeing a huge explosion in female viewership, and a lot of ’em are watching on the gay side of our theater.

1 (23m 36s):
Sure. They like good looking guys.

2 (23m 38s):
Yeah. Good looking guys. Less misogyny, you know. Sure. Better. You know, it’s, but it’s been growing and growing at a rapid rate. And the trick is, you know, how best to accommodate that demographic.

1 (23m 58s):
Well, there, there is a reasonable amount of porn for women now, and it seems to be growing anti Roundtree comes to mind with her shush site. And there are some others that have just been phenomenal at creating porn for women. So, have you thought about having a porn for women’s section? Maybe a separate trans section, maybe changing it up so it isn’t just gay and straight?

2 (24m 26s):
We have, we have had many, many conversations about that, you know, and it’s, it’s tricky, you know, certain, you know, certain communities, my understanding the gay guys don’t want to look through a bunch of lesbians to find the content they’re looking at. Right, right. You know, so it’s, you know, de categorize for the consumer or the product itself, and there’s a happy medium in there. Sure. In between. So we are always considering new options. You know, there’ve been, there’s always conversations about, you know, whether everything should be lumped into one.

2 (25m 11s):
So it’s, you know, more just, here’s your adult. I don’t think that our older demographic is quite ready for that. The younger generation is much more accepting of, you know, different forms of sexuality than perhaps the older demographic. But the older demographic is, you know, they’ve got more disposable income Sure. Generally speaking. So, you know, it’s a, it’s tricky road to walk.

1 (25m 44s):
Oh, I’m sure it is. And let’s face it. And you know, and I bring this up a lot because I believe it a lot in our PC culture. Anything you do, you’re gonna piss somebody off.

2 (25m 56s):
Oh yeah. I hear. If you’re not pissing somebody off, you’re not doing it just Right.

1 (26m 1s):
You’re not being successful. Exactly. Absolutely. So you do a lot of partnerships in the form of licensing deals. How important is this to your business?

2 (26m 11s):
In what aspect are you speaking? I mean, we don’t, we don’t license a lot of content. Okay. It’s

1 (26m 21s):
The licensing is the partnerships. Right.

2 (26m 23s):
Yeah. Yeah. We don’t license for exclusivity, I guess I should say. Right. You know, it’s a, it’s a rev share. So, you know, partnerships are everything, in my opinion, you know, there what, back again too. We succeed together.

1 (26m 40s):

2 (26m 40s):
Or fail together. I tried to extend any help or goodwill I can to anyone in our industry that’s a, a good player, whether we’re partners now or not. The more successful they are, the more successful I am. And that certainly holds true for our content and traffic partners as well. Sure. You know, so we work very closely with both of them, from both how we schedule content to go up so that it doesn’t compete with each other. Us really focusing on content discoverability within our site, which I think is a good thing for both our users and our content partners.

2 (27m 25s):
If we can extend the life cycle, the long tail of revenue generation on a piece of content, our partners win. They’re making every penny they possibly can, and our users win because they’re discovering content they might not have found themselves.

1 (27m 44s):
What kind of vetting process does a potential partner have to go through?

2 (27m 48s):
Well, we look at content, obviously have, you know, have, you know, preliminary talks with ’em, hammer out the percentages and splits and get all the corporate information, and then it’s turned over to legal and the contracts are drawn up and everybody signs. I mean, it’s nothing out of the ordinary or very complicated, you know, it’s not like we’re vetting people that are direct up, direct uploading to our site or anything. You know, we just need to verify that they, they hold all the proper licenses and paperwork and they are who they say they are, and the checks are gonna go to the right spot.

2 (28m 32s):

1 (28m 33s):
Are there, are there any, are there any potential partners you won’t accept? I mean, does anybody get, does anybody get turned down?

2 (28m 45s):
Not that I am aware of, unless they’re just a bad actor or there is something really off with the content. Okay. You know, I mean, obviously we don’t want to carry any content that is, would get us or anyone else in any type of legal issues. Sure. So, you know, I mean, makes sense. That’s always there. Yes. You know, it’s for everyone’s best interest.

1 (29m 15s):
Yep. You come from a tech background and design background. How does that give you an edge as a company owner and ceo?

2 (29m 24s):
Well, I’m cso I don’t wanna steal anyone else’s thunder there, but

1 (29m 31s):
What, what does CSO stand for? It’s a new one on me.

2 (29m 34s):
Yeah. Chief Strategy Officer, I suppose.

1 (29m 38s):
Ah, okay.

2 (29m 39s):
You know, I’ve kind of been the man behind the curtain trying to drive along the way remaining incognito. But I guess all that’s come to an end now officially.

1 (29m 52s):

2 (29m 53s):
You know, I think it, it just gives me a, a good language to be able to communicate with my UX and UI designers ideas from a user perspective to make the site more engaging, et cetera. And of course, I’m always looking at new technologies to implement, and I usually bring them up way too early. It excites me, but it’s not ready for public yet. So, you know,

1 (30m 24s):
I get it. Well, for someone who’s been on the VR train for as long as you have, that doesn’t surprise me.

2 (30m 31s):
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hacking Nintendo Power Gloves.

1 (30m 38s):
What’s your, what’s your take on where VR is at now?

2 (30m 41s):
It’s nice to see it. I mean, you know, I was, I follow, like, like you mentioned in the intro, I followed VR way, way back when, you know, it was well out of consumer hands, but it just, it fascinated me the, the ability to be able to create completely immersive environments. And I’m pretty impressed by what I’ve seen nowadays. And now that, you know, the hardware is becoming more affordable and more accessible to, you know, the common consumer. That was, that’s the tipping point that we’ve, you know, VR is needed for a long time, you know?

2 (31m 25s):

1 (31m 26s):
Yeah. Because without, because without the hardware, the software doesn’t really matter.

2 (31m 31s):
Yeah. And that immersive experience is unlike anything else. I mean, it really is impressive.

1 (31m 39s):
Yeah. I’m looking forward to when they bring it to sports.

2 (31m 43s):
Oh yeah, absolutely.

1 (31m 46s):
Yeah. You told me you were a, you’re a racing fan and, and performer or rather, rather participant boy. I bet that would be fun.

2 (31m 56s):
Oh yeah. Yep. That was one of the first things when I got my Oculus, was showed my mom one of the ride along in a Formula one car or a

1 (32m 6s):

2 (32m 7s):
You know, s a car. And she put that thing on, was just like, oh my God, this is amazing. You need to get me one of these things for when I’m, when you put me in the old folks home, obviously I didn’t show her any porn, but you

1 (32m 21s):
Knows whole thing

2 (32m 22s):
She’s well aware of, of, you know, what

1 (32m 26s):
You do,

2 (32m 26s):
What I do. So

1 (32m 28s):
Yeah, I would hope so by now. It would be kind of hard to hide it at this point. Yeah. What’s your take on the latest assault on our industry from the anti-porn crusaders and their religious groups that are connected to

2 (32m 44s):
Them? Initially, I would, I would have to say it just kind of saddens me. You know, I mean, there’s, this has been going on forever, but, you know, it, it, it seems frustrating that there’s, you know, parties on two sides and we’re, there’s smart people on both sides that could figure out a solution. But when one side’s only acceptable outcome is the complete eradication of the other party. Yeah. How do you find common ground to sit down and have a discussion about how do we coexist?

2 (33m 28s):
Yeah. You know, what can we do? You know, I mean, there are not everyone in this industry is a bad apple just looking to take advantage and convert children and all the other horrible things that they say about us. I think there’s a lot of misinformation and the press takes what they can because it’s sensationalized and that sells more. And, but we’ve, we’ve really gotta find some way to begin to steer a new narrative and try and not meet those people halfway, but, you know, dispel some of the misperceptions.

2 (34m 13s):
It, it, it a minimum

1 (34m 15s):
Well, one of, well, one of the parties are the ones that are delivering the vast majority of the assault and the other party is sitting on their hands.

2 (34m 26s):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, if, if we could find a way to come together as a community, and, you know, one of the, one of the things that I’ve been churning over in my head is, is, you know, is there something that we can do that that shows that we’re making a conscious effort? No, we are not sex traffickers and pedophiles and the lowest of low human beings. We’re just people making a living and

1 (34m 59s):
Some of the coolest people in the world. We both know that.

2 (35m 2s):
Yeah. Yeah. Some of the best people I have ever met in my life, and I’m not much of a people person have been in this industry, you know, friends that I’ll have for the rest of my life indeed

1 (35m 14s):

2 (35m 14s):
Longer, short, that may be,

1 (35m 16s):
Yeah. I’ve made a lot more friends in my 20 plus years in this business than I ever did in my 21 years in radio.

2 (35m 26s):
Amen. Yep. Yeah. There are some great, wonderful people here and Yep. It paints me that we’re all painted in a bad light because of a few bad choices or lack of foresight, you know, I mean, obviously there’s bad actors in every industry.

1 (35m 49s):

2 (35m 50s):
They’re everywhere, you know, but as a whole, generally we, you know, this industry doesn’t support that. And they’re painting us with a big brush that is of course, false and inaccurate and

1 (36m 8s):
Well, we’re low hanging fruit.

2 (36m 9s):
Yeah. I wish I had an answer for that, you know? Yeah, yeah.

1 (36m 13s):
Well, let’s just, let’s just hope we come out well on the other end. So there’s been a lot of change in the industry in all the years you’ve been in the business now, about a decade ago, or maybe a little longer, the tube sites really changed the landscape. Not necessarily talking about legal tubes like yours, but just tubes in general, which many of which are not legal now at that time. Any people freaked out, they all were like, the sky is falling, yet the adult industry marches on. What’s your feeling on that subject?

2 (36m 43s):
Well, I mean, you know, there’s good and bad aspects all, all the way around. I mean, you know, I’m somewhat, I have some concerns on the one hand, you know, about training a younger generation to expect that everything’s free. I don’t think that’s only the case with porn. No, but it’s not. No. You know, I mean, the younger generation doesn’t have as much disposable income. I mean, you know, remember, remember Napster, you know, when everybody was

1 (37m 16s):

2 (37m 17s):
Downloading, downloading music until Apple came along and went, you know what, here we’re gonna break it up and sell songs. You, you get something Yes. For a known bar of quality that you don’t have to scour around and bunch of questionable sites to get. Sure. It’s at a reasonable price. At a certain time in your life, you realize that your time is worth money, and if you know there’s a quality product at a reasonable price, people will pay for it. Sure. The trick, I think is, is creating a, a seamless and smooth path path to transition a free user into a paid user.

1 (38m 1s):
Yes. Yes. Abs. Absolutely.

2 (38m 4s):
Which we’re starting to get a handle on how to do fairly effectively, you know,

1 (38m 13s):
So most recently fan and clip sites have taken a large percentage of the adult industry market. While they’ve obviously created a market of their own, there’s more eyes now. How has this impacted your business and where do you see this going?

2 (38m 29s):
Well, we’ve, you know, we’ve got a few relationships with a couple of cam companies and couple of white labels, and they’ve been good for us. We are really looking to help foster that, you know, it’s an adapt or die. Yes. You know, we would like to start supporting the, the performer creators. They have followings, they’re creating content. You know, we, we don’t wanna compete with their main platforms. But, you know, I mean, if I think in a talk in Miami, I, I, I told some of the content creators, it’s like, you know, diversify don’t think that only fans or one of these other sites Yeah.

2 (39m 19s):
Is if you put your content there, everyone’s seen it. Yeah. You know? Right. Which, you know, you need to generate the maximum revenue from your major asset, which is your content. Correct. So figure out which your, your best performing platform is release on that just before it’s the peak starts to tail off, window it out, release on another platform, ride that high good strategy and make that con continue to do that so you can squeeze everything you can out of each individual piece of content and not be under the gun to continually create content.

2 (39m 59s):
Makes sense. You know, so we’re, we would like to be one of those distribution platforms for these girls and it girls and guys, pardon me. Right. And help them generate additional revenue. You know, for the more pro performers that have done studio work, we’re creating the ability for them to be able to sell their home curated or created content right beside all their studio content. You know, where else can somebody go and see all of that content right there?

2 (40m 40s):
That’s true. Together in one place. Very true. And we would incorporate the girls and guys performers, pardon me, as potential affiliates. So if you were to drive traffic to your page, you know, you get a piece of everything within our system that, that user bought, whether they went That’s awesome and looked at another girl’s content or watched performers studio content. I mean, these, these performers, they got paid once for making this video. Now they can get paid again and again and again.

2 (41m 21s):
Every time somebody watches the title, if they bring us the traffic.

1 (41m 28s):
Sure. So what, oh, go ahead. I’m

2 (41m 31s):
Sorry. Oh, no, I was just gonna say, I think it’s just a matter of adapting, you know, I mean, we’re in the business of selling video. They’re creating video, we wanna sell it for ’em.

1 (41m 42s):
Absolutely. So where do you see this industry going in the future? And you’ve always been ahead of the curve, so I kind of wanted you to look into your crystal ball and

2 (41m 52s):

1 (41m 53s):
Give your take.

2 (41m 55s):
Gosh, that is really hard. That, that, I thought that’s the curve ball. I wish I could see that far out. I, I, I’m so focused on, you know, trying to adapt to the content creator, model creator content. Right now, that’s really one of the places I’m putting a lot of emphasis on because they are the new affiliates, the new content, the new studios, and we need to foster relationships.

1 (42m 31s):

2 (42m 34s):
You know, just, you know, for me right now, it’s, it’s building out better user experience things, features that will be more engaging to our users and facilitate better information and ways to onboard different types of content onto our platform. Be it, you know, content creators selling photo sets or their home shot video clips or audio or anything

1 (43m 9s):
That sounds, sounds like quite a task.

2 (43m 11s):
Yeah. It’s, and you know, it’s, it’s really hard to venture to guess what it will be in the future, you know, with AI and machine learning and, you know, blockchain technologies. And I mean, when, think about it, when a user has control over their own personal data and can be in charge of who gets that data and maintain a single login on a thumb drive that works across all their sites. I mean, I think there’s a lot of technology coming up in, you know, with the web 3.0 initiative that I think will have huge ramifications, you know, between that and cryptocurrency and the banking issues that we’re facing now on Yes.

2 (44m 3s):
I say now like it’s a new thing, but

1 (44m 5s):
Yeah, exactly. It, it’s, it, it, but it has been worse lately. It has been worse lately, hasn’t it?

2 (44m 12s):
Yeah. I mean, it, I don’t, it, it seems to, it seems to go in cycles. Right. You know, I mean every what

1 (44m 20s):

2 (44m 21s):
Maybe six years, you know, it’s, it’s the, the age verification from the uk I mean, I’m not opposed to any of these things as long as they’re thought out and implemented correctly.

1 (44m 38s):
Well, that’s where, that’s, that’s where you’re probably wrong because, you know, governments never, politicians don’t, don’t think things out.

2 (44m 47s):
No, they don’t. So, you know, the onus eventually will fall on us to come up with, of course, a proper solution. Right. You know, I think, you know, every, every time it reaches, you know, chaos reaches critical mass, it’s an opportunity to innovate.

1 (45m 3s):
Yeah. And I, I totally believe that the adult industry is blowing it because as a whole, the adult industry should get together and adopt a universal age verification system before the governments do.

2 (45m 17s):
Yep. Well, and part of the problem is, you know, yeah. Every government, be it a state government or, or you know, nation Yeah. It’s, if we are reactive and wait until they’re pa you know, they start passing them, it’s gonna be impossible to contend with. Correct. You know,

1 (45m 40s):
Well, the UK can’t make up their mind.

2 (45m 44s):
I know.

1 (45m 44s):
It’s on, it’s not, it’s on, it’s not. It’s on, it’s not. And these poor people with these age verification companies, they’ve had so many full starts, it’s not even funny.

2 (45m 55s):
Oh, oh, I know. I, I can’t tell you, for me to go back to my development team and go, oh, I’ve got another one. They, they chase me out tar and feather me. You know, I mean, I, I, because, you know, I, I would like to stay ahead of it. Of course. And, you know, we always, we’ve always strived to do the right thing to stay in the good graces. You know, like I said, part of our process, you know, we have at least five stages of qc, human eyeballs looking at content before it ever goes on our site, you know?

2 (46m 35s):
Good. A lot of that is to make sure that it, it, you know, there’s no audio video glitching, you know, but we’re also looking for things that might be in there that might not be defensible. Exactly. We don’t deal with user uploads primarily, mostly, you know, we’re dealing with studios and brokers at the moment, so, you know, it’s not like they’re suspect or we don’t trust them, you know, so it is more of a quality check, but it’s also cover your ass

1 (47m 8s):
Still big time that, well, that’s my answer to the vetting question by the way. The rights just took a little while. So besides catering more to the performers, anything else exciting coming up at ABN that we should know about?

2 (47m 26s):
Oh, you know, evolving out the trends, and we are always happy to, if people have questions or anything that’s, they might be interested in, we are always happy to do a deeper dive and help people out. You know, really for us, you know, one of the main focuses is going to be on really using artificial intelligence and machine learning to enhance the user experience right now, to know what content users like and be able to put that in front of them or what they don’t like, and suppress that somewhat, give them the most applicable recommendations.

1 (48m 17s):
Right. No lesbians for the gay men.

2 (48m 20s):
Right. You know, or customized promotions, you know, this guy likes buying downloads and he loves this company. Let’s hmm hmm. And give him, you know, promo code for a 20% discount on his next download from this studio, or, it’s cool. Really, personalization right now is one of my big priorities at the moment. Absolutely. It’s no small task, but, you know. No,

1 (48m 52s):
It sounds, it sounds like when you get it going, it’s gonna be really fantastic for everybody.

2 (48m 58s):
Yeah, well, I think so. I think it’ll help everyone involved, you know, I mean, it helps the consumer find the product that they’re looking for, the easiest to discover content that’s, that they might be looking for, which helps our content partners. And it’s the way things are going now, you know, we’re just gonna try not to be Netflix and move major UI elements around so no one knows where to find their list. But, you know,

1 (49m 30s):
That’s always helpful. It’s like many websites, and I complain about it all the time. I, and when I’m doing my broker tips, one of the things I say is, do not just tell your designer or your developer put together a website for me and not give any direction because oh my God, what comes, comes out the other end. And this is with big sites, you mentioned Netflix, they need direction.

2 (49m 57s):
Yep. Well, and that’s one of the things, back to one of your original questions, I think that, you know, really helps in my conversations with my teams as Right. That’s one of the, one of the few meetings I have every week that I look forward to more than others, is the interaction with my creative department and my u i UX people after a million years of art school. You know, I, I, I kind of know how to speak the language of the creatives and it, it’s, it’s really a nice refreshing brainstorming session, exchange of ideas, you know?

2 (50m 43s):

1 (50m 44s):
One, one last question. How do you still have the passion for this after over two decades?

2 (50m 52s):
Because there’s so much to do, there’s so many challenges. Yeah, I mean, so many of the things that we talked about now, I mean, you know, there’s so many things I wanna do with our site. You know, the, the AI personalization, facilitating, you know, like I said, better data and information for our partners to consume ways that they can create comps based on scenes that are already existing in our library without having to go back and re-edit and make another box cover and send us another comp that we have to encode and double store content.

2 (51m 33s):
We already have. Things like that, you know, and not to mention this issue with the stigma around adult, I mean, I, I would love to see our community, our industry come together and have real intelligent conversations about how we might deal with this. Yeah. I wish I had the answer, but I think well,

1 (51m 59s):
As a thought leader in the industry, maybe you need to make the suggestion at a major trade show to have that conversation.

2 (52m 7s):
I have. Oh, okay. Should have figured I’ve been, I’ve been talking to, to free speech about trying to facilitate something like that. I think they’re probably in the best situation to facilitate those discussions and steer the narratives in the public eye. Sure. You know, but we all have to come together, have amicable and intelligent conversations with each other. Yes. Without accusations or pointing fingers and figure out a way forward for the bulk of us, you know, nobody has to get on board.

2 (52m 50s):
But those that do should be able to say, you know, look, I’m participating. I want to follow best practices. I, you know, absolutely. We don’t support the same, many of the same things that you don’t support. We, you know, we’re not sex traffickers, we’re not pedophiles, we’re not trying to taint your children. You know, we’re just people trying to make a living. It’s not gonna go away. You’re not going to, you know, exterminate adult entertainment from the face of the earth. Nope. So how do we move forward

1 (53m 26s):
Anyway? The kids are already tainted, so it’s too late. Just look at social media.

2 (53m 32s):
God, that’s the most evil thing on earth.

1 (53m 35s):
Agreed. Well, Jay, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Say Broker Talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

2 (53m 44s):
Thank you so much for having me and giving me this opportunity, and I look forward to seeing you and speaking with you again soon. I

1 (53m 52s):
Hope so. My broker tip today is part seven of How to Buy an Adult website. Last week we talked about the agreement and escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owner’s participation will be after the sale. You’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things. If you don’t have experience in these areas, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult Business Consulting.

1 (54m 33s):
You can get more information on what this company does@adultbusinessconsulting.com. We help website owners, project manage and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting payments, production scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help. Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting company to help evaluate all of those items and everything the site is spending money on and using to operate the site, make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better.

1 (55m 16s):
Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service. Many times the server is just too slow. If you have any questions about this, feel free to reach out to us on our site. Next week we’ll talk about how to sell a website, and next week we’ll be speaking with Jay Moyes of High Octane Heart Media and pr. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Jay Strowd. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Vex Ruby and Shift D of Viro Live Studio. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. That’s right now. When you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer an amazing opportunity. If you’re in the cams model management or fan site space or want to get into them, we have a private listing that may be just right for you. This company works with all major CAM sites and has access to hundreds of US based models.

We’re offering very limited information at the seller’s request. In order to maintain privacy, we anticipate multiple offers for this very rare listing. For more information, contact us at adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk are Vex Ruby and Shift D of Viro Playspace Vex and Shift. Thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 15s): Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (2m 16s): Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (2m 17s): It’s a pleasure. Now Vex Ruby is the world’s first advanced virtual cam performer and is the spokeswoman for Viral Playspace, an adult haptics driven VR social space. Vex is powered by Viro Live studio, the only software to integrate body tracking, haptic, tele, dontics, and campsite api, allowing anyone on earth to perform as an adult virtual avatar. Vex is a real live person, as you can hear, who streams as an avatar using motion capture.

Shift D is the founder and creative director of Viro, Playspace and Viro live studio. He specialized in animation and special effects at a AAA game studio for a decade until his lifelong passion for VR prompted him to go out on his own as an indie developer, the company developed a number of tools to handle vex body tracking, facial tracking, voice capture, campsite integration, and many adult haptic toys so she can integrate or rather interact with her audience who love her Playful Purvis.

She’s been doing this live stream for a little over two years now. The company wants to make Vex style of live streaming accessible to anyone interested in trying it, which is why they package those in-house tools. And what is now Viral Live studio? Let’s start out with who is Vex Ruby?

Speaker 4 (3m 38s): Well, I am known for it, like you said, being the world’s most advanced virtual camp performer and the ambassador for the live studio. I think that the thing that I am most well known for is, like you said, being very interactive with my audience. I would say the absolute best part of the work that I do is because that I have all these opportunities to take a more playful approach to camming. It attracts people that have that same playful spirit, that have that same want for safety and privacy and consent.

I have the most amazing community and that’s what Vex Ruby is most known for.

Speaker 1 (4m 23s): Okay. So where do you perform online?

Speaker 4 (4m 27s): The two main platforms that I perform on are Chatter bait and Cam four. Hopefully one day though we would like to be able to stream directly from Vero Playspace.

Speaker 5 (4m 37s): Yeah, we’re looking into streaming directly from Vero Live studio into Vero Play Space. So people with VR can actually be part of the audience and are part of the experience instead of just watching a video.

Speaker 1 (4m 51s): Hmm, yeah, that makes, that makes total sense. So how did you get started doing this Vex?

Speaker 4 (4m 58s): Well, about, oh goodness, 2016. So about six years ago I was with the Vero Play Space team doing pre-recorded experiences that you could actually find on Vero Play Space, which is on steam. However, we saw a place for using all these really cool toys that we have here, the high level motion capture, all the talent we have on the team to start doing a live stream. And I am so, so glad we did

Speaker 1 (5m 30s): A shift. How did you get from the point of development to where you are now?

Speaker 5 (5m 36s): I had a passion for animation and special effects. So when we, when I left the AAA studio that I worked at, I went into virtual reality cuz that was also a passion of mine and was just combining these two worlds together, making motion capture based virtual reality experiences. And then we saw an opportunity to bring this to the adult industry in the way we thought would be a little more our style, which is like Vex was mentioning sexy and silly.

And so when we took the technology and boiled it down to the core components so we can make it live, that’s when things really started to accelerate because it’s one thing to record a performance, it’s another thing to do all of this stuff on the fly. Oh yeah. So you can interact with everybody. Right. And we had a great time over those the last two years and like, you know what? We should bring this to everybody. And so boiling all of that technology down to something that you can get off the shelf was our goal and that’s why we released Beer Live Studio.

Speaker 1 (6m 51s): So talk about the development process of, of reaching the point you’re at where you can make this available to everyone. I mean what go, what goes into that process? What talk, talk about that because I’m, I’m interested in hearing about it.

Speaker 5 (7m 8s): It’s really going to the fundamentals of what makes motion capture work. We have a very advanced motion capture system here that tracks all these little dots on a suit. You, you see them in like behind the scenes footage of movies and such. Yeah. But it’s just track tracking a point. And with VR technology, the way it is expanding and becoming more and more accessible at the fundamental level, it’s doing the same thing. It’s tracking points on a controller or tracking points on an object. And so we take that data and we do a lot of math and we fill in all the blanks for the motion that might not be captured.

So there are only so many ways you can bend an elbow or bend a knee and such. And so we don’t necessarily need to have tracking points specifically on those things to know exactly where they should be. Being able to bring that higher level motion capture, facial capture and stuff to something a lot more tangible has been an incredible process. I also had to give props to Apple because they released Face id, which is an incredible face tracking technology in itself. So Sure.

Us being able to just say, Hey, use an iPhone. Now you have ungodly levels of face tracking that wasn’t available like seven years ago.

Speaker 1 (8m 29s): Oh, wow.

Speaker 5 (8m 30s): So they

Speaker 1 (8m 31s): Can, so they can actually use, they can actually use their iPhone to perform because of the face tracking.

Speaker 5 (8m 37s): Yeah. So we developed a side app called Vero Face Portal, which captures facial expressions, captures your voice and how you move your head. So when you are performing with full body your face, every single facial expression is captured with it. You can even stick out your tongue and the avatar does the same thing. It’s incredible.

Speaker 1 (8m 60s): Which I’m sure vex does a lot.

Speaker 5 (9m 2s): Oh, yes.

Speaker 4 (9m 3s): Oh, absolutely. And what’s more, we even have the base cap rig that I use on stream available on the website. We spent, oh my gosh, pretty much the whole past two years that I’ve been streaming developing the Vex helm.

Speaker 5 (9m 23s): Yeah. One of the key problems with having a, a phone attached to your head is the rigs out there are like $1,600 and they essentially put the phone in front of your face out and that causes a lot of torque to your neck. And so we developed a, a helmet for like 150 bucks where you, you slide it in the slot above your head, it’s much easier to have a phone on top of your head instead of in front. It’s like the difference of holding a jug of milk at arms length or up close, you know, here’s

Speaker 1 (9m 52s): One thing’s

Speaker 5 (9m 53s): So much better.

Speaker 1 (9m 53s): Here’s one thing I don’t understand though. You, you were talking about the, the, the suit you wear and the rig and everything else. How is someone elsewhere able to perform if they don’t have all that?

Speaker 5 (10m 10s): So if they have, say for instance, a HTC vibe or a valve index, these are VR setups, you can get what’s called a little tracker and you put that tracker on your shoe, on each shoe and one on the center of your chest. And with those three points of data, we’re able to tell which way your hips are bent, which ways your knees are bending, how your ankles removed, all of that stuff. And VR already tracks controllers for your hands.

So we’ve got that covered. And if you’re wearing a headset, we know exactly where your head is. If you’re wearing one of these X helmets with the iPhone, we get the same data from that as well. So with, let’s see, three trackers, two controllers that, so with six points of data, we’re able to make an entire human skeleton to animate.

Speaker 1 (11m 2s): Interesting. Interesting. So vex, do people really get off on animated characters and cartoons?

Speaker 4 (11m 9s): Absolutely. And the, and the funny thing is, especially when YouTubers, as we call ourselves, started to really take off, there was some worry among the caming community of it being something that undermined traditional caming. And that’s, that’s not the case at all. Most of the people that I would consider my regulars are, are coming to these caming platforms specifically to see virtual cam camgirl.

Speaker 1 (11m 37s): Okay.

Speaker 5 (11m 39s): A little background on that. The number one search term on porn PornHub is hentai, which is Japanese animation content. Sure. But the extra sauce that we put in our software is teledildonics control. So when vex in her virtual space sits on something that enters her, the deeper it goes, the more her actual toy vibrates. And so all the facial expressions and reactions and things are genuine, and we capture every bit of that for the performance.

Speaker 1 (12m 12s): Interesting.

Speaker 4 (12m 13s): So in the connection there is that the same people who are going on PornHub and looking up specifically heti aren’t going to be really going on PornHub and looking up like IL performers? Sure. They aren’t gonna be going on a Cheming platform and looking up traditional CAM models. They’re going to be looking up the Lew doers.

Speaker 1 (12m 30s): Yeah, no, that makes, that makes complete sense. I I do know that Geni is very, very popular.

Speaker 4 (12m 38s): It’s called Geni and it’s an art.

Speaker 1 (12m 41s): Yeah, definitely. It’s very popular in Japan. I know. Do are, are you getting a lot of traffic from Japan?

Speaker 5 (12m 47s): We see some traffic from Japan. Most of the analytics we get are for like our applications and experiences, and there are some sales there. Most of the, what we see is in the United States and in the UK region, but the v tuber community over in Japan is very, very large. But there’s not really any tools to do what Vex does. The other performers out there are cobbling together, whatever they can, which is why we decided to make the app in the first place.

Speaker 4 (13m 18s): Ok. Wrapping it up, all in a nice, neat little package.

Speaker 1 (13m 21s): Indeed. So vex, what’s different about camming as an avatar than, than regular camming?

Speaker 4 (13m 29s): Oh goodness. So many things I can’t take for granted, for one, that people necessarily understand what’s going on. For, for example, like the number one thing people will say, who haven’t seen my show before when they come in, I see it all the time. They literally say, wtf. Like, what the fuck? And whereas a traditional camgirl wouldn’t have to explain, oh, well here’s how I work, here’s how you play with me. I kind of have to do that.

I cannot take for granted that somebody automatically understands what’s going on.

Speaker 5 (14m 6s): Yeah. One of the things we see is, oh, this is a pre-recording or a cartoons. But vex generally greets people as they come in and they’re like, what? This person just greeted me. And they’re moving and they’re there. There’s feedback to that. And so it’s, it’s always fun to see that, that that moment of it clicks, this person is actually live and not a pre-recording.

Speaker 4 (14m 28s): Well, and the performance part of that, like making a point of greeting the people that come in by name for the sake of showing, no, this is not a prerecorded thing going on.

Speaker 1 (14m 40s): So vx, why VR instead of live camming when you could be doing regular live camming?

Speaker 4 (14m 48s): I mean, I could, but I have so many cool things that I can do on stream that I wouldn’t be able to like, tell

Speaker 1 (14m 56s): Me about it

Speaker 4 (14m 56s): With a snap of a finger practically, or rather a push of a button. I can go from being on a, a pirate shift to being in my space lab scene. I can wear several different outfits all throughout my stream. And it doesn’t take much time at all. I mean, and I gotta admit, it’s pretty cool to be able to essentially cam in a tank top and yoga pants and no makeup, but still look pretty awesome.

Speaker 1 (15m 27s): That’s true.

Speaker 5 (15m 28s): We have an interesting way of interacting with people because we have this technology. So like for instance, every time somebody tips a token, it, it rains a little bit. And when that, when that rain hits vexes clothing, it melts a little bit. So there’s this cool almost incentive for everybody to just make it rain, make it rain, and it literally by bit the clothes come down. But it also, like, we, we believe that safety promotes expression. And so that’s another big thing because vex is able to really just be herself and not have to worry about, like you said, yoga pants.

You can, and no makeup and stuff like that. You can just focus on expressing yourself at the moment and being really connected with the people.

Speaker 1 (16m 14s): Sure. So, so vex, have there been any, I don’t know, negatives, downsides to this?

Speaker 4 (16m 20s): Yes. But I, I tend to do one of two things. Either write it off as they just really don’t understand what’s going on.

Speaker 1 (16m 29s): Well, in what, in what, in what respect?

Speaker 4 (16m 33s): Well, they think that, for example, that I’m trying to skirt around the rules of the campsite by doing something pre-recorded or who is,

Speaker 1 (16m 42s): Who is

Speaker 5 (16m 43s): Oh, just people who come in as viewers.

Speaker 1 (16m 46s): Oh, okay. Okay. Got it. Go ahead. I’m sorry.

Speaker 4 (16m 50s): Not a problem.

Speaker 1 (16m 52s): When you said they. Yeah. Okay. And how do you handle that

Speaker 4 (16m 55s): By explaining, just, I have this little elevator speech about what exactly it is that they’re seeing. Also a way that I can deal with the negativity on, on the rare occasion that it even happens. Most people are too, really too busy having a good time to want to do that, but Right. The most you can do, whether you are a virtual performer or a traditional camp performer, make a big joke about it. Really?

Yeah. Crack it right back at them.

Speaker 5 (17m 28s): We, we make sure that Vexes stream is like, this is her space and everybody’s welcome to join in on the fun and interactivity, but Vex is in control. And so if somebody’s coming in here to just like wreck the place, that’s what the moderator tools are good for. But surprisingly, we haven’t seen that. Really not, that’s why it’s kind of hard to answer because much to our surprise, everybody has been very supportive and, and, and happy and, and positive.

And we didn’t expect that in this corner of the adult industry.

Speaker 1 (18m 2s): Well, I would’ve

Speaker 4 (18m 3s): Met, but those very same people Go ahead. I’m sorry. Come in and are like, oh my gosh, what the hell is this? Once I give that speech and I, I turn on all of my vexing charms. I’ve converted so many people and it’s just so fun to watch.

Speaker 1 (18m 20s): I bet. Yeah. I, I mean, I guess if everyone else is having fun and there’s one asshole that isn’t gonna really go over very well, right.

Speaker 4 (18m 30s): Yeah. They’re, they’re the one that’s gonna be seen as the party pooper.

Speaker 1 (18m 34s): Big time. So tell me about the reactions you get from those who’ve never seen anything like this before. You kind of alluded to it, but get into a little more detail.

Speaker 5 (18m 45s): You want me to start with this one? Yeah. So half the time we get people who are fascinated by the production value as we’ve seen it. And so they’re like, you can change clothes, you can change scenes. You’re doing all of this in real time. This is incredible. The production values are off the roof. And we get all the other people in there who have been there for a while saying, oh, you haven’t seen nothing yet. We have a whole, you’re

Speaker 1 (19m 10s): Probably, you’re probably getting a lot of fellow engineers in there.

Speaker 5 (19m 14s): Yeah, I can sense that. Yeah. Every now and then we get somebody who’s also an animator and like, holy crap, this is top shelf stuff. I’m like, yeah, thank you, thank you very much. But, but yeah, that’s, that’s from the tech side of things. But when it comes to the adult side, when somebody’s just there to see something naughty and they see this girl being silly and fun, when somebody tips and actually activates her toys or something, like, I’ll activate something and you’ll see it on screen and her facial expression changes.

There’s this contrast, there’s this magic moment where it goes from silly to extremely erotic that a lot of people react to. And so Vex has this thing, it’s like the three things you want. Oh

Speaker 4 (20m 3s): Yes. The three things that I have as goals on my stream make you come, make you laugh, make you feel safe. And you actually brought up a good point shift. I mentioned not being able to take it for granted that people understand right off the bat what’s going on. I do specifically explain to people who are new that I have real toys on my real body and when they tip, they do get activated. And so all of my reactions are totally real.

Speaker 5 (20m 32s): Yeah. And sometimes when she’s giving that speech, I activate toys in the middle so her voice just changes and trying hold her composure. And that’s, that’s the fun side. You

Speaker 1 (20m 42s): Guys must be fun. You guys must be fun at parties. The two of you.

Speaker 5 (20m 46s): It’s hard to, to move all the motion capture equipment though,

Speaker 1 (20m 50s): I guess, I guess. And, and vex vex, why don’t you talk a little bit about the reactions that, that you get from people who have never seen it before?

Speaker 4 (21m 1s): My favorite reactions are when I have other performers come in and they are either interested in converting to from more traditional caming to L tubing or even people who are already doing the L tubing gig, but they’re super impressed and they wanna collab with me. They wanna, they wanna be a part of it. That’s, those are always my favorite reactions.

Speaker 1 (21m 27s): That’s nice. Now Vex talk about working, which this is really kind of unusual in adult. Talk about working with a startup and how that’s been.

Speaker 4 (21m 38s): Well, the startup, you have to really believe in the message and the values that the company is trying to present. Cause I mean, obviously startups not gonna be able to give you a fat paycheck. Right? Right. And I think that’s the biggest thing is whether or not we started out, or even at this point really with a ton of money. I think that our values and our content will speak for itself.

Speaker 1 (22m 13s): Sure. That’s, that’s how startups get big. How do your fans typically find out about you?

Speaker 5 (22m 20s): Hmm. Yeah. This is one of those things where we could really use a marketing department.

Speaker 4 (22m 23s): Yo,

Speaker 5 (22m 25s): Most of the time we find people just stumbling in our streams. Yeah. That or they stumble in across our app in steam itself. And we try to cross promote wherever we can. But as far as that goes, we, we have an aggregator site called lutu.com and what it does is it highlights which l tubs are performing at that moment and when the last time they were on it, it just is basically a directory.

And so we’ve seen some level of success there where people are coming in and, and discovering us. But other than that, yeah, it’s mostly just happen surfing the web and finding of x you know,

Speaker 4 (23m 8s): Pretty much

Speaker 1 (23m 9s): Are there a lot of other performers doing this?

Speaker 5 (23m 12s): We’re at about, what, 30, 35,

Speaker 4 (23m 14s): Something

Speaker 5 (23m 15s): Like that. But there’s only a handful of L YouTubers who are really pushing the envelope and, and even fewer still that are managing to keep any level of following and things like, it’s a, it’s a really difficult world out there because most of them are, like I mentioned earlier, cobbling together, whatever they can. And there, there isn’t much out there to help them perform this way.

So that’s

Speaker 1 (23m 47s): True. They do need, they do need some equipment.

Speaker 5 (23m 50s): Yeah. They need some equipment, they need some software, they need the tools. And that’s why we wanted to enable everybody. Cuz we say Vex Ruby is the most, the world’s most advanced l tuber. We say that because at the moment that’s absolutely true by a long shot. Cause we’re, we’re lucky that we have the expertise and the knowledge on how to use all of this motion capture equipment and stuff. And this is definitely not something we expect everybody else to just, oh, I’m gonna invest $80,000 on motion capture cameras and whatever.

Yeah. So yeah. It’s, it’s one of those things where going through LTU and helping out all these other performers raise that bar to something that anybody else can connect to. Because that’s where the magic is, is the viewers connecting with the performers. Right. And if there’s just too much interference in how they move and how they react then is that connection is lost.

Speaker 1 (24m 50s): Immersion

Speaker 4 (24m 51s): Break.

Speaker 1 (24m 52s): Go ahead. I’m sorry. What?

Speaker 4 (24m 54s): Oh, I was saying that it creates a bit of an immersion break. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the other thing about there being so few people in the L tubing community is that we all find ourselves on the same page because there’s so few of us, we all want to see this be a more normalized way of performing. Sure. Our, all of our goal is to see it someday that people can pop onto one of our pages and know exactly what’s going on.

And the more people that are doing this, the more we have a chance to collab with others.

Speaker 1 (25m 29s): Right, right.

Speaker 4 (25m 31s): People to play with.

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): Yes. Exactly. So I mean shift, how do you gain critical mass as far as the performers go?

Speaker 5 (25m 41s): It’s a good question. If I find an answer. No, the thing is, the first thing we put all of our energy on was making sure that the facial expressions came through and then all the other things that I stare at in the adult industry. So we gotta get the physics right and we, and that’s all the way down. And so finding that point where that, that that spot where everybody is able to just not think about it when they can, I wanna do this, here’s what I need to do.

And there are many different combinations of hardware and things you can use right now, low budget or, or much more pro. There should be a solution that you don’t have to be a Unity developer or C sharp programmer or any of these things. We want somebody who has nearly no computer knowledge to be able to be able to do this. And when we start seeing other performers who are able to do that, that’s when I know we’ve, we’ve hit a really good spot.

Speaker 1 (26m 43s): So Vex, what advice do you have for a CAM model considering getting into viral play space? How do they get started?

Speaker 4 (26m 52s): The first thing I would say is do it, do it. Secondly, it is so, so important for anyone doing any type of camming to have a support network with other CAM models specifically for cross-promoting, doing shout for shouts on social media. But that is even more so because like I said, we’re still such a small community. That’s even more important to have the connections in like different l YouTuber spaces, like on Discord and on only fans and such.

Speaker 5 (27m 27s): Yeah. And absolutely get Vero Live studio. That’s really the only game in town right now.

Speaker 1 (27m 33s): Yeah. So Vex, what do you enjoy the most about what you do besides, besides being able to, to work in your yoga pants?

Speaker 4 (27m 43s): Hmm. I think the best thing about the way that I approach Cam is that I make people feel comfortable with their sexuality. I don’t take anything too seriously. I get to be silly because I’m a cartoon.

Speaker 1 (28m 0s): True. You never, you never saw Fred Flinstone get get too serious. Right?

Speaker 4 (28m 6s): No, I get to be more myself than I would be if I was too cam as my meat space self. And because that brings out this really authentic side of me, it helps other people let their guard down as well.

Speaker 1 (28m 24s): Sure. Makes sense. You kind of alluded to it earlier, should real camp performers feel at all threatened by virtual camp performers?

Speaker 4 (28m 33s): Oh, absolutely not. Cause like I said, it’s, it’s two very, very different audiences for sure.

Speaker 5 (28m 38s): Yeah. And there might be some cross interests obviously, but there’s no way that we would ever replace Oh no. Live or as you put it, meat space. But yeah, it’s, it’s just a, in addition to the adult industry, not a replacement. And for that I am grateful because if we were to try to steer sexuality in any way by re replacing other performers or outperforming other performers or however that goes, I think that would be a, a tragedy in a way because it’s finding yourself and exploring and discovery and sexuality that makes it interesting.

And that comfort that you had mentioned, VX vexes is key to that being okay with being interested in this and, and that and such.

Speaker 4 (29m 31s): Yeah. We’re looking to expand the variety in the Camon community, not diminish for sure.

Speaker 1 (29m 37s): That makes sense. So how much control vex do you have over your avatar

Speaker 4 (29m 42s): Control? As in like how she moves or,

Speaker 1 (29m 45s): I mean, how, how much control do you have overall on what she does, how she, how she performs?

Speaker 4 (29m 51s): Well, as far as the movements go, it mim mix exactly what I am doing with my actual body in real life. Like pretty much a hundred percent right. As for the character design, I was definitely a, a part of creating it.

Speaker 5 (30m 4s): Yeah. I mean, she’s tracked from head to toe, so every little subtle motion is, is captured and conveyed and there’s some magic there where you can see the leg quiver when you’re Oh

Speaker 4 (30m 17s): Yeah. Much to my sugar.

Speaker 5 (30m 19s): Or when you’re trying, when you’re embarrassed about something or you’re trying to mimic something, all of that comes through. It’s incredible. It’s, it’s a very interesting experience as far as control goes. Every now and then, we’ll surprise her with a new outfit or something so we can get that genuine reaction. This is Vex room. This is Vex space, and she runs the show. So she has absolute control over how she moves, what, who she interacts with, how she interacts this. Nothing is scripted by or or predetermined by any

Speaker 4 (30m 51s): Means. No way I can, everything is, I cannot act. It would not work if we tried to do that. And yes, I’m presenting as an avatar, that’s what people see, but it is my actual body that they interact with when they send tokens to like activate my choice, for example. And everyone in the studio and all of my viewers on the CAM shows are very respectful of that. So, and they give me, they gimme control accordingly.

Speaker 1 (31m 20s): That’s good. So what’s the biggest challenge of, of doing all this in vr

Speaker 5 (31m 27s): I would say right now is cost. Mainly because we’ve had the chip shortage and things along those lines. It can be a little bit difficult to find even the VR equipment. So that’s true. You can, this is why when we were developing the software, we wanted it to work with as little as possible to just get your performance out the door. So you can do something with just a microphone for instance. And we do lip sync with that. But the more and more you want to get into this, so you can say, okay, now I want head tracking, so get an iPhone, or I want upper body tracking, so get an Oculus Quest two and a couple of controllers, I wanna go all in.

So now you get some trackers and, and things like that. So it is really up to the individual how far they want to get into this, how much they wanna capture. But right now, I would say the cost of it, even though it’s not the Hollywood level, like motion tracking system, VR is still at a point where it’s, it’s a, an expensive thing to just invest in. It’s

Speaker 4 (32m 33s): Not a household item yet.

Speaker 5 (32m 34s): Yeah. Not quite,

Speaker 4 (32m 35s): It’s not like a toaster.

Speaker 1 (32m 37s): Yeah. And let’s talk a little bit about that shift because VR was introduced to the adult space I’d say probably six or seven years ago now. Yes. And I mean, I think everyone kind of expected that the, the hardware would’ve had advanced further in terms of being in people’s homes. Don’t you agree with that?

Speaker 5 (33m 3s): Yeah. One of the things that I noticed during that transition was the hardware was getting better, but the killer app wasn’t there. And so you have to take a whole other approach when developing for vr. It has to be for VR from the ground up. You can’t just tack VR onto something or you’re gonna make a bunch of people uncomfortable. Right. And so it was this conflict of existing content that people like versus new content specifically made for vr.

Yes. Plus you have something over your face. And right now vr most most VR experiences are tethered to a computer. Oculus Quest two is doing better about breaking that connection. But we’re almost at a point where VR is going to be simple. And what I mean by simple is that how you interact, how you put, when you put it on, you just get it, you understand it, you understand how it works. And the first thing I saw whenever I did VR demos is people would put their hands in front of their face, but there’s no hand tracking so they won’t see anything.

Right. But now we’ve got really decent hand tracking coming from a number of VR devices. And so little by little things are becoming more approachable for just the common, any, any common user.

Speaker 1 (34m 26s): I’m, I’m kind of surprised that it hasn’t been developed yet where there’s an actual monitor or television set that would give you some form of vr. I mean, is that, is that something that’s being worked on or is that kind of a pipe dream?

Speaker 5 (34m 46s): Well, the problem with the TV with depth perception is right, you can have something where you can sit down in your room and you can look into this other world, but it has to keep track of where your eyes are. And when you have multiple people in the room, then it can’t shift the image to give that depth perception. So that’s where it breaks down, is having more than one person. The, the solution to that is, okay, everybody wears 3D glasses, but then that has its own problems in itself. And we saw that industry kind of fall.


Speaker 1 (35m 18s): Did we.

Speaker 5 (35m 20s): Oh yeah. What is interesting in the horizon though, is the augmented reality side of things where you can have multiple people and like, okay, I’m gonna put this screen on the wall here and anybody who else who has got these glasses on will be able to see that and things. And so we’ve done some internal tests where vex could go visit somebody in augmented reality and it’s incredible stuff that’s coming for sure. But until then, yeah, it’s ar seems to be more of the solution for that.

Speaker 1 (35m 51s): Is that how ar is gonna work? Where, where there will be a screen or will the, will the image be right there on the glasses?

Speaker 5 (35m 59s): The image will be on the glasses, but as far as the eye can tell, it’s on any surface you put it. And because these are networked devices, anybody else wearing these glasses would also see the screen in the exact same place. I’ve done some mind blowing demos with some other people with early AR hardware where you, you leave a place and you’re like, oh crap, I left all the screens. Oh wait, no, they don’t actually exist there.

Speaker 1 (36m 26s): Yeah. Well I I understand Apple seems to be supposedly ahead of the game on that.

Speaker 5 (36m 33s): We, I think so the, the rumor mill certainly is pointing that way. When you look at the patents that are flying and the money that is being spent, it’s certainly suggest

Speaker 1 (36m 44s): Like they have any money. Come on.

Speaker 5 (36m 46s): Oh yeah. We’ve seen a number of other companies take a, a good look at augmented reality and meta Facebook is definitely one of those players and we’ve Sure seen, but it’s a really hard thing to do because you gotta have all of that technology boiled down to a pair of glasses. Nobody wants a bulky thing on their head.

Speaker 1 (37m 8s): Yeah, yeah, you’re right. I mean, I, I got an Oculus, I can’t say I’ve used it more than a couple times. I mainly got it to look at client sites that are in VR as a broker, but I mean, I don’t use it and I, I don’t know if other people are having the same experience. I I think that that might be one of the biggest problems.

Speaker 5 (37m 31s): Yeah. I call that the Nintendo we effect where everybody got a Nintendo, we played We Sports, and then that was about it.

Speaker 1 (37m 38s): Oh, well. Well hopefully, hopefully there will be, there will be more and more for people to watch in, in vr including viral Play space. So what are you looking forward to in the future as this whole thing evolves?

Speaker 5 (37m 52s): Let’s see it to become something that, oh, hey, I did this in VR and somebody else is like, oh yeah, I totally understand that Right off the bat. It’s, it’s, it’s just as common to talk about as anything else, right? At least that’s for me. What would you say X is something?

Speaker 4 (38m 9s): Well, as someone who is looking forward to one day being a licensed sex therapist, actually I look forward to the ways that BR has the potential to help people specifically who may be dealing with things in real life, such as physical disability, body or gender dysphoria or any other type of issues. A whole new way to explore their sexuality.

Speaker 1 (38m 34s): Makes sense. Well, vex and shift, I’d like to thank the both of you for being our guests today on adult site broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon. Thank you. Sounds good. Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of How to Buy an adult website. Last week we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a onetime payment or a deposit, if you’re gonna be making payments, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold, and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow.

Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. They’re a firm out of Washington DC and know, they’re not paying me to say this, I just use them, trust them, and I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a custom escrow or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller, and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions such as wiring information.

The escrow is open and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed. It all depends on what the agreement calls for. Whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal closing. Your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this and is on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now, in many cases, in fact, most of the time the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.

This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll have a very special guest. We’ll be speaking with Jay Strowd, the co-founder of A E B N. You don’t want to miss that. And that’s it for this week’s adult site broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests, Vex Ruby, and Shift D of Viro Live Studio. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk.

I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with adult performer Lily Craven.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is four years old. They’re currently the only free tube providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user requests and user provided content After moderation.

The owners started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it, and he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular on Reddit and Business Sword. The owners decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry. The sites visitors come back again and again due to its uniqueness. They have over 13,000 premium videos and most of them are 30 minutes or longer. With more videos and categories, the site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries.

There is no advertising being done for the site. All of the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic only 269,000 US dollars. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today an adult site broker Talk is Adult Star and podcast hostess with the most Lily craven. Lily, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 49s): Hello, Bruce. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (2m 52s): It’s nice to be had,

Speaker 1 (2m 54s): You know, talk to me in that sexy voice. I almost wanna do some, some phone sex with Lily, like your podcast here, but eh, it’s not our format, so I don’t wanna shock our listeners.

Speaker 2 (3m 7s): Oh yeah. But,

Speaker 1 (3m 8s): But I do wanna do it again.

Speaker 2 (3m 10s): Oh, I’m gonna have you back. Alright, so be prepared. Round two. Phone sex with Lily.

Speaker 1 (3m 15s): Oh, absolutely. Whoa. Yeah, I didn’t think my phone sucks. Was that good last time?

Speaker 2 (3m 21s): Oh, it was fabulous. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (3m 24s): Okay, good, good.

Speaker 2 (3m 25s): It was great. I’m ready for round two

Speaker 1 (3m 27s): For sure. Okay. You convinced me. Me too. Let me tell people about you. Milk performer Lily Craven has been in the industry. I’m glad you agree. For six years, starting as a webcam model and now she does adult videos. She entered the industry at the age of 40. During a divorce, Lily needed a way to make ends meet and wanted a little revenge on her cheating X. That may have been her original motivation, but today Lily calls the industry home feeling the need to make up.

For the years she was not in the industry. Lilly frequently attends industry events. She has become a familiar face among her peers. We actually had a chance to meet, which was awesome. Yes, her niches are big toys, dirty talk, big boobs and taboo role play. Her favorite niche, and I love this one, is the extreme mommy fetish Do Mommy, I love, I love saying Domy Mommy this.

This role allows her to interact one on one with many of her followers. Her most recent endeavor is hosting her podcast, as we spoke of earlier, phone sex with the Lilly, which yours truly has been a guest on. She interviews adult industry talent in, in Behind the camera Phone Sex with Lilly is everywhere. Fine podcasts are heard. So you have been a busy bee since we last talked. Oh goodness. Yes.

Why don’t you tell me some more about what you’ve been doing and maybe some of the events you’ve been at.

Speaker 2 (5m 5s): Oh, well, speaking of events, that’s where we got to meet in person.

Speaker 1 (5m 10s): Yes. Tempe, you

Speaker 2 (5m 11s): Traveled, you traveled from far, far away at the Why not Reunion in Tempe, Arizona. And wasn’t that in March or April?

Speaker 1 (5m 23s): It was in April.

Speaker 2 (5m 24s): It was in April. Okay. Cuz it was hot already, right? Yeah, it was

Speaker 1 (5m 28s): Starting,

Speaker 2 (5m 29s): It was starting to get

Speaker 1 (5m 30s): You living in Colorado. Everything is

Speaker 2 (5m 33s): Hot. Yeah, everything is hot, but, but it was a great event. We got to do, gosh, morning hike. There was the Go-kart races.

Speaker 1 (5m 43s): Wait, wait, wait. Was there a morning hike?

Speaker 2 (5m 45s): Yes. Did you miss it?

Speaker 1 (5m 47s): I must have slept through it. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (5m 48s): I did too. I’m gonna tell you a secret. I did too. But there was what? The go-kart races, the top golf. We had a blast. We got to hang out, went out to dinner together as a group. It, it was definitely a, a fun one. I’m so glad I went and yeah, I got to meet you there.

Speaker 1 (6m 8s): Absolutely. You forgot the speed networking that we hosted.

Speaker 2 (6m 12s): Oh yeah. So you hosted, I think that’s an fabulous event. And actually, okay, so it’s speed networking and we all move from spot to spot and introduce ourselves to each other. Do a little pitch of what we’re about. And I actually have gotten in contact with Sia. She was, what’s the name of her podcasts?

Speaker 1 (6m 37s): It’s called

Speaker 2 (6m 39s): Yeahs the, oh gosh. I forget. Should know this. I know. It’s like stripper. Stripped with

Speaker 1 (6m 45s): Stripped, stripped by cia,

Speaker 2 (6m 47s): Stripped by Sia. Yeah. And so I met her and amongst other people. But that’s one example of networking that we’ve actually followed through with. So that was, that was just a great event. It was great to see everyone. And we didn’t have to worry about fans and we just partied like rock stars, didn’t we?

Speaker 1 (7m 8s): We had a great time. Especially

Speaker 2 (7m 9s): That we sleep very much.

Speaker 1 (7m 11s): Especially, yeah, especially especially that night at the restaurant when a bunch of us went to dinner and that was, that was really fun. That

Speaker 2 (7m 19s): Was really, yes. Didn’t we have to walk somewhere? Remember we walked the,

Speaker 1 (7m 24s): We walked a bit. We walked a bit. I think your feet were starting to hurt in those heels.

Speaker 2 (7m 28s): Yeah, but you know that trooper,

Speaker 1 (7m 32s): You, you are a trooper. Yeah, we had some good friends there with us for sure. It was

Speaker 2 (7m 37s): Great. And then I went off to Exotica Chicago. That was an excellent one. It was so, there’s such a good turnout. So many fans, so many people. We all intermingled for about four days. We partied like porn stars and we, we partied like porn stars. But it was, it was a really good turnout, great event. Great to see the fans and all the talent and all the after parties and the after, after, after parties.

I always find myself at one or two of those. But it was just a, an excellent, you know, turnout. And I, I’m pleased with that one. And I got to go as talent and media.

Speaker 1 (8m 24s): Yeah. How was that? So

Speaker 2 (8m 26s): That, it was a little hectic, but I wish I would’ve had more time to do more. I feel like I didn’t get enough content when I was there as far as the media side, cuz I was splitting my time. Yeah. But I, I did get good stuff and it was fun. I just have to get a rhythm

Speaker 1 (8m 48s): Going. There needs to be, well, you need to split yourself in two. There needs to be two of you.

Speaker 2 (8m 53s): Yeah. But unfortunately, there’s only one of me in this world, so this is true. So, yeah. And I do everything by myself. So I really, I’m the cameraman, the, the sound, the everything. And then I was working a booth with signatures after dark. So that was, it was a lot of fun. I got to make, I was in a booth with like seka and, and Leslie Winston, nay, Jojo.

We had a blast.

Speaker 1 (9m 28s): Great. Great. So what else has been happening with you since the last time you and I spoke on the podcast?

Speaker 2 (9m 39s): Ooh, what else is happening with me? I would say that I am Rev, well, it’s gonna be season three of my podcasts. So I’m revamping everything and I’m gonna be on video now. Please help me. So I have been for two weeks, you know, doing my studio and making a podcast studio with your help. Of course. Oh, yes. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (10m 4s): Always happy to give you pointers on the, especially on the audio side, since that’s my specialty.

Speaker 2 (10m 11s): But you like, save me literally, because I don’t hear what you hear. Yeah. Cause I don’t listen to myself.

Speaker 1 (10m 18s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (10m 18s): Yeah. And so I need to start doing that. But also just the, you know, your studio and how you, the vibe you wanna give. And I am not a decorator, I’ll tell you that. Just to take that off my plate.

Speaker 1 (10m 31s): Well, I’ve, I’ve kind of acted as your podcast coach since you got going, since we first got planted. And it’s really been, it’s been a, a joy for me to do that because first of all, you listen and you take advice and you’ve, you know, well, and especially with the technical aspects of your podcast, they’ve just, they’ve gotten better and better from, from where you started. Oh,

Speaker 2 (10m 58s): Yes. And

Speaker 1 (10m 59s): You know, I mean, when I started my podcast, the technical aspects weren’t really good. When I listened to my early adult site broker talks, I, I’m a little embarrassed actually. The mic wasn’t that good.

Speaker 2 (11m 12s): At least you had a mic.

Speaker 1 (11m 14s): Yeah, well, yeah, I was

Speaker 2 (11m 16s): Using a handheld recorder like back in the day. Oh geez. On a speaker phone. That’s

Speaker 1 (11m 21s): Funny. Well, no, but I mean, you know, I, it’s been my goal to up my game. So my podcast sounds as good as possible. And I know you’ve done the same and you’ve learned from some of my mistakes and, you know, some of, some of my study and I passed it along and I’ve happily done so. So

Speaker 2 (11m 40s): I’m

Speaker 1 (11m 41s): Glad it’s worked.

Speaker 2 (11m 42s): So grateful for it because I, like I said, I I was just dumped into this, like clueless, had never even heard a podcast before. So you’ve definitely been my guiding light. Ah, well, or I would’ve been a train wreck. Well, I was a train wreck. But you’ve saved me from, you

Speaker 1 (11m 60s): Know, wouldn’t go that far. I wouldn’t go

Speaker 2 (12m 1s): That far. That’s pretty bad.

Speaker 1 (12m 3s): You were doing, you were doing okay, but you’re doing better now, which is great. So, so what about outside of the podcast? What about on, on the performance end? What’s been going on?

Speaker 2 (12m 16s): Well, I am gonna start shooting again, my Aunt Lily series. We’re gonna do a few with Dallas dom and come October when I go to exotica New Jersey, of course I’m gonna shoot with blush, erotica. They’re like my go-to p anytime we’re in town together, we are like, let’s hook up. So we already have that scheduled. Good. And I’ve been invited to go to LA for a few shoots. So right now the cost of airfare and all that, I think we’re kind of gearing towards waiting for, you know, events where we’re all gathering together and it makes more sense that way.

Speaker 1 (12m 57s): Yeah, absolutely. Spend a little extra time and get some work done.

Speaker 2 (13m 2s): Oh yeah, definitely. So,

Speaker 1 (13m 4s): So I mean, talk, talk about that. What are some of the challenges for models like yourself to make things work?

Speaker 2 (13m 15s): As far as,

Speaker 1 (13m 16s): Well, as far as far as like travel and, yeah, you talked about travel and the challenges of the cost of airfare Yes. And everything else. I mean, what are, what are some of the challenges and Well, especially for somebody like yourself who’s not exactly in the middle of Porn Valley, you’re in Colorado.

Speaker 2 (13m 34s): No, there’s, yeah. Well I’m try, we’re trying to change that. But there is, I know, I know currently no industry here, so I do have to travel for everything. We are self-employed, we are not rich. We, we pay for everything ourselves. Right. So it can get financially, especially with the prices going through the roof right now, yes, it can get, it can get pretty grueling, but all I have to do is just kind of tweak things to where kill two birds, one stone and you know, at the events plan stuff there while I’m already there, you just have to do things differently or you know, more, what’s the word?


Speaker 1 (14m 17s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 18s): Yes. So it’s not as free as it was before with the $29 flights where you can just hop, skip, and a jump over to another state. It’s a little bit more challenging right now.

Speaker 1 (14m 31s): Sure. With fuel costs. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 33s): Oh God yes. Talk about about that. That’s not,

Speaker 1 (14m 40s): Do you ever, do you ever spend a period of time down in Southern Cal to get some shoots in

Speaker 2 (14m 47s): Like LA or San Diego or Right. Or la Yes. I’ve been there a couple times. I don’t really do that much work out there, but when I go, I’ll make sure that it’s, you know, there’ll be several lined up shoots like that instead of just going there for one person. So I sort of gather them up throughout the year.

Speaker 1 (15m 10s): Okay. So let’s talk about, let’s talk more about your podcast. You’ve been doing it for a while now. Talk about where you started and where it is now.

Speaker 2 (15m 23s): Okay. So I started just standing in to do a interview here and there for another station. And that grew into, Hey, do you wanna have your own time slot? And I was like, oh sure, why not with my handheld recorder. And then I thought, God, this is so boring. Like these interviews, and it’s not that the talent was boring, but like, I wasn’t bringing what I believe a host should bring. I wasn’t Howard Stern or, or Joe Rogan or nothing like that.

So I thought to myself, well, it’s on the phone. It’s during Covid and what sells sex sells. Sure. So phone sex. And then I said, I’m gonna have phone sex with my guests. Yeah. The first couple minutes of each episode. And

Speaker 1 (16m 13s): I think it’s brilliant, by the way.

Speaker 2 (16m 15s): Oh, well it, at first I was going to tell them what, you know, hey, beforehand, you know, days before or whatever, when I schedule them, I’m telling them I’m gonna have phone sex with them. But unfortunately they would skip out. They would nohow, they would write a script. I, so I, so I said, but I said, I’m not telling anybody anymore. I think you were the last one.

Speaker 1 (16m 40s): Oh really?

Speaker 2 (16m 40s): And I said, yeah, I’m not, and I think there was only maybe two or three total that I did tell. And after people kept skipping out, I was like, you know what? I’m not telling them anymore. So now they’re all genuine, unknowingly subjected to phone sex with me. I tell them literally right when I’m gonna record.

Speaker 1 (16m 60s): Okay. I think it’s awesome. And you have had quite a roster of guests and will get more into that later, but have you been pleasantly surprised as to, to the response from the adult community?

Speaker 2 (17m 15s): Oh my gosh, yes. Yes. I, I’m, first I’m grateful. I’m so grateful and thankful for it being, you know, successful and that people are enjoying it. So that’s where there’s so many personalities and characters in this industry. Yeah. And they really just let low loose in the first couple minutes. So it’s always a hoo it’s something different every time. Yeah. So they have fun with it too.

And you know, you always get the, well, what, what? And I’m like, don’t worry, you’ll be fine. I’ll lead the way. Record. And so that’s worked really good.

Speaker 1 (17m 56s): The element of surprise.

Speaker 2 (17m 59s): Yes. And I’m gonna be doing season threes coming up. It is on video, but I am doing the big stars now. I’m worked with Tanya Tate. She has a PR company and so doing some of her talent starting tomorrow. So they don’t know about the phone sex either, so it should be fun. I I’m really excited about some of these guests that are coming up.

Speaker 1 (18m 26s): I bet

Speaker 2 (18m 27s): It’s gonna be fun. Is,

Speaker 1 (18m 29s): So who are some of the guests you, you have coming up on the podcast and I should tell people that this will run some time in September, so some of those may have already run. So you definitely need need to check out phone sex with Lily to see who she’s had and who she will have. But who are some of the more exciting ones coming up?

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): So just to name a few. I have, since Sage, I have Brittany Andrews, I am so excited about. Yeah. Misha Montana.

Speaker 1 (19m 4s): Ah, Misha. Yes. I know her.

Speaker 2 (19m 6s): And so that’s just a few. I don’t wanna give it all away. Oh, well I guess by now, by the time it

Speaker 1 (19m 12s): Airs we have run. Right. Just

Speaker 2 (19m 14s): Check it out. There’s a few. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (19m 16s): Definitely.

Speaker 2 (19m 18s): So I’ve got some good talent lined up. I’m really excited and I know they’re gonna bring their game on me. I’m gonna have to keep up with them. Seriously,

Speaker 1 (19m 28s): Lily, I never worry about you keeping up with

Speaker 2 (19m 32s): My dear. I dunno.

Speaker 1 (19m 35s): You’ve got, you have gotten so good at this.

Speaker 2 (19m 39s): No,

Speaker 1 (19m 40s): No, you have, you definitely have.

Speaker 2 (19m 41s): I’m, I’m taking it till I make it.

Speaker 1 (19m 43s): No, look, I’ve listened to Well, you have to do that. Everyone does that, including me. But I’ve, I’ve listened to some of your, your more recent ones and there’s a, there’s certainly a mark difference between when you started and where and where you are now. So thank

Speaker 2 (19m 58s): God.

Speaker 1 (19m 59s): Well,

Speaker 2 (20m 0s): It was a rough start.

Speaker 1 (20m 2s): We all learn. We all learn. So speaking of interviews, what are some that you consider to be some of the most memorable? Oh, besides me, of course.

Speaker 2 (20m 14s): Yeah, you. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (20m 17s): Okay. That’s the to that. No, ok. Besides me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20m 21s): I would have to say it was during, I think it was April or May. Jiggy Jaguar came and to my house in Colorado and we hammered out about six interviews with like Vanessa Valentine, the Hard stopper, James Barley. Jack Cannon. There was Christina Castilla and Kani Ki and Don Juan DeMarco.

Yeah. So we, we did back to back interviews and it was called Jiggy In The Who. So that was a lot of fun. He is a hoot. If you haven’t seen a show, oh my gosh, he’s funny. Love. He’s the one in the Santa, in the Santa Claus costume at the Exoticas. You can’t miss him.

Speaker 1 (21m 14s): Love to have, love to have him on on our podcast sometime. Oh

Speaker 2 (21m 17s): Yeah. He’s a fun one.

Speaker 1 (21m 19s): Okay. Well now that you’ve been in the, are there, are there any others that you you’d like to mention by the way?

Speaker 2 (21m 26s): Oh gosh. I would have to say memorable ones. They’re all memorable. Yeah. Like, I don’t wanna point out certain, I just remember that particular series was, it was not only back to back one after another, but it was, it, it was hilarious. Like it was just fun doing it. It was creative and, and I really enjoyed working with him. I would say that was the one that really stuck out.

Speaker 1 (21m 54s): What do you feel doing the podcast gives to you, Lilly, and how does it help your performing business?

Speaker 2 (22m 3s): Oh my goodness. I think that it has jumped me up 10 years in the business. Networking. Networking is huge. You don’t necessarily, you know, you’re not making money per se. Right. But the value of networking, that’s how I met you. That’s how I’ve met everyone. Sure. I mean, and I don’t know a better way to meet that many people and really dive into who they are. I’ve made friends with just everybody that I’ve, you know, interviewed.

It’s, I still continue to promote them. I just have their back. I’m fans when I see them up for awards. I’m all voting and I do, I become one of their fans and next to them peers. So it, it’s, it’s just neat to see all the different aspects of the industry, the people behind the scenes that really don’t get noticed very often. I mean, they’re the foundation that hold it all that makes it happen.

Speaker 1 (23m 4s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (23m 5s): They are great. So I, I just have met so many people and the value of that, just the friendships I’ve made and the business relationships are priceless.

Speaker 1 (23m 15s): Well, I mean, without the performers we have no industry

Speaker 2 (23m 18s): True. And without the people behind the camera, we don’t have an industry.

Speaker 1 (23m 23s): Well, it’s true. It all, you know, it absolutely, it absolutely all works together. But the, a lot of people will always forget this. And I don’t think performers are treated well enough without the performers. That’s our product. Okay. That’s, that’s the industry product. But a lot of people tend to forget that. But there’s no two ways about it that the industry, the performers are the industry.

Speaker 2 (23m 54s): True. And sometimes, I mean, as performers, they can beat dicks and literally, and, and not the best people to work with are not the most reliable. But at say, they still, there’s a reason why they’re the brand. Like Yes. I have to say they are the face of what’s bringing the viewers, the listeners, the buyers, everybody in.

Speaker 1 (24m 20s): Sure. Now, you, you talked about supporting some of the people that you’ve met through the podcast. I’m sure it works both ways. And I’m sure it’s also gotten you some gigs, right?

Speaker 2 (24m 33s): Yes. Well, yes, it definitely has. And that, that’s great because also you get to know him better. Like, I’ve been Alex Legend out of la he’s great. He, he’s from Paris, France. He’s the greatest accent in the world. But he’s invited me out to LA to shoot with him. I haven’t done it yet, but I’ve had him on my podcast. So I definitely, if you haven’t seen him, he’s a hottie. I I will make my way to LA guaranteed this year.

Speaker 1 (25m 7s): As you should. As you should. Yes. Now that you’ve been in the business for a while, what keeps you in the business?

Speaker 2 (25m 15s): Oh goodness. The people. Number one, the fans. That is my full, like, that’s what keeps me going. I like the creativity. It’s just, it’s, it’s like a baby, a project that’s mine. And I run every aspect of everything I do. So I like interacting with the fans. I like creating, I like listening to them and what they want. And it’s just, it’s so much fun. Like it’s, this is like, people say, what do you do in your spare time?

I work, but my work is so much fun. Like it’s, it’s, it just really drives me. It’s my purpose. Like, and I’ve never really felt that way about anything. I’ve never held a job. I was always fired. I didn’t, just didn’t belong in the workplace. And I never knew why. I was like, God, these people go to these jobs for years on a, like how am I gonna do that in life? Like, am I ever gonna have anything because I can’t hold a job and I just, I’m not someone.

I guess that, and I hear this a lot from people in the industry. I’m, we’re just not people that fit into that mold. That’s true. And that’s okay. It’s okay though.

Speaker 1 (26m 33s): Before you got into the industry, could you ever have imagined yourself in it?

Speaker 2 (26m 39s): No way. Never. Never, never, never. Thanks ex-husband. No, never. Never. I don’t, I wouldn’t, I didn’t watch porn. I don’t, it’s just not something that I ever imagined.

Speaker 1 (26m 56s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (26m 56s): Just a scorned woman. Yeah. Crazy ideas we come up with. Well,

Speaker 1 (27m 1s): And well, when we talked about this last time, you lived a pretty protective and stilted upbringing, right?

Speaker 2 (27m 10s): Well, yes and no. It wasn’t that they were trying to protect me from like, TV and what’s on it. It was basically go find something else to do. I grew up in San Diego. Go outside and play. Yeah. You know, we had a trampoline, we had horseshoe pits, we had a ping pong table, we had a jacuzzi, we had tetherball, we had everything in our, just our backyard. Yeah. And literally, this is when we used to play in the neighborhood, ride bikes. Go find something to do. Don’t, or like clean pick weeds.

Like there was always something for us to do. Write a report. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27m 46s): San Diego must have been a great place to grow up,

Speaker 2 (27m 50s): You know, it was. But as an adult I started, you know, realizing that this place is way too crowded. Traffic, the lines, I, I’m in Colorado now, it’s peaceful. I, we don’t have traffic, I don’t wait in lines. It’s just such a slower pace of life. And it’s where I belong now.

Speaker 1 (28m 12s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (28m 13s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 13s): That’s, that’s really awesome. Now you, you talked about getting into porn to get revenge on your cheating act.

Speaker 2 (28m 23s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (28m 24s): How well did that go over

Speaker 2 (28m 26s): It? Well, he just says like, he don’t care. I thought he would, I thought I would make him like jealous, but no, it, it didn’t. And, but I just didn’t want it to be like, I was like, oh, I can’t screw his best friend or someone. Cuz then I’d just be a cheater like him and it would be about me. Oh, you did it too? Yeah. So I was like, no, I’m gonna do something much, much better and I’m just gonna do it for the world to see on the internet. And so it was good motivation.

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28m 56s): It got me going.

Speaker 1 (28m 58s): So we mentioned Colorado and Yes. You also said that there isn’t a ton of an adult scene there. So how does it work living in Colorado and working in this industry?

Speaker 2 (29m 15s): Well, you have to travel everywhere because there’s nothing here, but we’re trying to change that. I have, you know, with Nick Huntsman, Don Wa, DeMarco and myself have been gathering talent in the area. Well gathering meaning there’s not much to gather. But like Nikki has a group in Colorado Springs that she’s been working with. And it’s kind of, we’re gonna be having a mixer in for industry only, like sponsors and stuff like that.

But we’re inviting people out to Colorado and the local, you know, talent here to come and see what we have to offer. Great. You know, we’re gonna put on the mixer and, and you’re invited if you wanna come all the way from where you’re at. But, but we’re just, what we’re doing is we’re trying to invite everybody out here to say, Hey look, this place is worthy of it. We have this studio, this studio, you know, there’s a circle of studios that you can go to or talent you can work with and come out here not just for one shoot.

Right. You know, it can be financially. We we’re, we’re a company that believes in pain all their talent and, and basically puts you through a circle. Come out here for a tour for two or three, four days, do a bunch of shoots, make some money, and then leave and, and enjoy beautiful Colorado. It is

Speaker 1 (30m 39s): Here. That’s

Speaker 2 (30m 40s): That’s what, that’s what it, we really want y’all to see. It’s so much better than like LA or the, the weather, the pe like you can walk on the sidewalks. It’s clean air, there’s no traffic. Like, it’s just really something. And location. Locations. Locations everywhere. I mean, we have beautiful locations.

Speaker 1 (31m 1s): Yeah, absolutely. And any other motivations for people to come to Colorado to shoot

Speaker 2 (31m 8s): Money. Okay. We definitely, like I said, we, we wanna, we we, we’d compensate our, you know, our talent. But more than anything, I think we’re just trying to bring people our way to let them see how good it is out here just to spice it up to get something fired up here to where we’re not just like the, the Ohio on the map or like, who knows the Wisconsin or everybody. There’s no, that’s how Colorado is.

It’s just there’s nothing here.

Speaker 1 (31m 41s): Yeah. Have you done anything to like recruit like only fans or the like models to, to get into the performance side?

Speaker 2 (31m 54s): No, no. I don’t think it really recruiting. I think someone has to get into it on, you know, their will, their push, their drive. But I don’t mind helping someone, you know, the serious ones. But there’s so many people who come and go. Sure. As far as I did have, you know, the male talent dto, he, he’s great. Dallas Dom studios, he was a newbie that shot with me first and I took a chance on him and I’m so glad I did.

He’s in my series with Aunt Lily, he’s the nephew and he does amazing work. He’s here in Colorado. So I’m, I’m stoked and we’re gonna be meeting up, we were supposed to meet up today, but circumstances with vehicles, mine didn’t start today. I could a problem. Yeah. It was the battery so it was just putting it off, you know, till next week or something. But we definitely are gonna be doing some fun stuck stuff we’re gonna do.

Stuck. Have you heard of Stuck?

Speaker 1 (33m 3s): No. Why don’t you tell us?

Speaker 2 (33m 5s): So it’s porn where it’s, it’s where you are stuck like under the table or in a dryer or under the bed or in a weird position. And then you get fucked.

Speaker 1 (33m 17s): Interesting. Interesting. Now

Speaker 2 (33m 19s): Such a brilliant idea. I think it’s,

Speaker 1 (33m 20s): I think it’s a great idea. I kind of thought, I kind of thought you were gonna tell me that stuck would be your car broke down and you’re staying in some farm house’s. You and you fucked there.

Speaker 2 (33m 32s): Well kind that’s stuck in a predicament. Which is pretty

Speaker 1 (33m 36s): Much all isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (33m 37s): Isn’t all porn stuck in a predicament? Pretty much Your landlord tenant, your brother, sister, your like, everybody

Speaker 1 (33m 45s): I guess isn’t

Speaker 2 (33m 46s): That? Yeah. So, so yeah, this is just a knockoff of the actual stuck filming. And I think it’s sounds so fun cuz I’m extra flexible. So we’ll see where I get stuck. Oh

Speaker 1 (33m 59s): Wait, was that what you were, oh nevermind. You had a diff definitely a different image of the industry before you got into it. Oh yes. Than, than now. So how has your image of the industry and the reality of the industry in your mind changed from before and now?

Speaker 2 (34m 23s): I had a, a relationship where this person was like obsessed with Warren and it was just disgusting to me. I was just like, it grossed me out. I was just like over it because he’s always covered in Vaseline. Like just, just constantly just getting it. Yeah. And so I’m just like, it disgusted me when I remarried. He, he didn’t have anything to do with it. So he said, so I guess he was creating his own porn out in the neighbor’s yard or wherever else.

But you’re

Speaker 1 (34m 58s): Talking about, you’re talking about your husband.

Speaker 2 (34m 59s): Yeah. He was the one that was cheat. Mmm. So he was out everywhere. So anyways, so I really had this negative view on it I guess. And so I think now what I know is that first we’re all people, like there’s some of the neatest people in this industry. I can’t agreed stress that enough. Agreed.

Speaker 1 (35m 22s): The family.

Speaker 2 (35m 24s): Yeah. Oh my gosh. And, and they’re real, they’re like genuine people. And anybody who meets us says that like, we are so loyal to each other. We’re genuine. We we’re just like, we’re free spirited, nonjudgmental just a such a neat group of people and Right. It’s better than the, you know, the societal norms are just, I just never fit in. I didn’t fit in with my family. I don’t fit in just, but I fit in here.

It’s home. Sure. And, and that’s, I’m forever grateful for. And so I think that’s, it’s changed my perception kind of. I still have that flip side view of, of the fact that I think that it should be kept away. You know, it shouldn’t be just all over the internet. I think that Facebook, I’m sorry guys, but I think Facebook, if they don’t want it, then they have every right to say that, you know, we have our children on it.


Speaker 1 (36m 26s): It’s their sandbox, right?

Speaker 2 (36m 28s): Yeah. It’s like go play somewhere else. You know? And it is true if we go on there, we will mob up and take over the whole entire like

Speaker 1 (36m 37s): Platform.

Speaker 2 (36m 38s): Yeah. And so I think that, that we have to understand and respect those boundaries. I don’t like how it’s reversing things seem to be reverting back to our old ways of thinking. Like, you know, our bodies and like, I can’t even say phone sex with Lilly show. It’s only just a title. Like I, I don’t even, I’m not doing anything but chatting. I Yeah. It’s nothing that should be, I can’t write that word. Sex. I have to put dollar salary in a backwards

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): An x me. Tell me about it. It’s, they’ve gotten, they’ve gotten horribly, well we should say they’re ai, if you’re talking about Facebook has just gotten horrible with anything posted that could potentially be sex or nudity or whatever.

Speaker 2 (37m 29s): But, but they have to do that because if you allow us an inch, we are gonna take a foot like we used to beat around the bush about how we would do it, you know, and sneak around all the rules and do the tech. But, but they are like, literally they shut us down like they said. No, let

Speaker 1 (37m 48s): Give you, lemme give you an example. Okay. I posted a listing about a he I site. These are cartoons of naked people.

Speaker 2 (37m 59s): They don’t want that there though. It says that.

Speaker 1 (38m 2s): Yeah. But it’s not even naked people, you know.

Speaker 2 (38m 7s): Well, you know, the problem I have is like bras and well I get it, but bras and panties, okay, you can’t have that on Facebook. But women wear bras and underwear from little age, you know, their whole entire life seven days a week and they can’t advertise for it. But then again, if they allow us to, then it’s gonna be one porn person, two 10 that says, but she got to do it. And they’re like, but that’s a Haynes her way commercial.

That’s not the same man. And it’s just like they have to literally say no is no, like there’s none crossing this line. Nobody. And then because everybody starts pushing it their boundaries.

Speaker 1 (38m 52s): I’d almost bet money if you’re paying them that you’ll somehow get away with brass and panties

Speaker 2 (38m 59s): You, but you don’t, not on Facebook really. But you know, you know, the problem I have was Instagram because I did not cross any boundaries. I did not break a rule. I got a a notice from them that literally said, nothing you have done has made your account the status that it is right now. It’s not your fault. In fact, thank you, thank you for following our rules, our our terms of conditions. But you’re shut down permanently.

I even screenshotted it. I’m like, oh

Speaker 1 (39m 32s): Doesn’t surprise me. It’s their AI and I didn’t do, and their AI is flawed and they don’t care because they don’t, they don’t touch it anymore. They just let the, the machine learning take care of it.

Speaker 2 (39m 45s): Yeah. And I had like 40,000 followers. That’s not a lot to some, but that’s a good marketing group’s

Speaker 1 (39m 50s): A lot, you know? Yes. That’s a lot. And

Speaker 2 (39m 52s): They straight stripped it away from me. And if you ever looked at my, I never even had anything that remotely looked sexy. Like I don’t even on Facebook and if they’re owned by the same people, why does one let me there and the other, I don’t put anything that’s not, you know, and then you see someone with a million followers and they’re just like stupidity. Even their lips are hanging out, you know? And it’s

Speaker 1 (40m 16s): Stupidity.

Speaker 2 (40m 17s): Yeah. It’s just too much. And, and I was like, but look at the letter you guys gave me. So what’s this mean? They’re like, sorry. And I think it was guilty by association. I think the fact that I am tied to so many different adult talent that that’s why I went down. That’s just my guess.

Speaker 1 (40m 36s): But okay. Yeah. So, so one of your favorite niches is dummy mommy again. I love that. I love those words. Why don’t you gimme an example. I’ll be the son. I’m gonna try this anyway, this was your suggestion. I’ll be the son and you can be mommy. And I hope I don’t go to the Jewish equivalent of hell for this.

Speaker 2 (40m 57s): You might. How per are we gonna go? Well, hello son. Are you, are you getting a heart on right now?

Speaker 1 (41m 9s): Well, yeah, mom

Speaker 2 (41m 12s): Son, you, you know that’s not right. You can’t be doing that. I I’m your mom for god’s sakes.

Speaker 1 (41m 19s): Okay, I’ll stop.

Speaker 2 (41m 22s): Oh well, no, it’s okay. Don’t cry. Don’t, don’t be embarrassed. Don’t be embarrassed. Mom will help you. You’re just doing it all wrong.

Speaker 1 (41m 34s): Oh, okay. Well how do I do it? Mommy,

Speaker 2 (41m 37s): Come here. I’ll show you. But first we gotta get it wet. You don’t even have any lube and I can’t find any. So mama just put her mouth on it. Okay.

Speaker 1 (41m 48s): We sure that’s a good idea.

Speaker 2 (41m 51s): Oh yes. If, if it feels good. Okay. It’s good, isn’t it?

Speaker 1 (41m 56s): I guess.

Speaker 2 (41m 58s): Yes. That’s my boy. I’m so proud of you.

Speaker 1 (42m 1s): Thank you mom.

Speaker 2 (42m 2s): I love you son. A little curved.

Speaker 1 (42m 8s): Oh good. I’m glad we’re stopping there. Ah, but

Speaker 2 (42m 11s): It’s just, but it’s just fantasy. It’s, it’s, and it’s really, they don’t wanna fuck their mom. They do not. It’s, it’s just the dominant nurturing and it’s, it’s kinky, you know, and that’s, that’s what they like about it. So it’s been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (42m 27s): I love it. So how can the fans meet you?

Speaker 2 (42m 31s): Well, if you wanna meet in person, I will be at the New Jersey Exotica. I believe it’s October 21st or that weekend. Great. Come meet and greet. You can hang out with us. We party together. We all the fans are intermingled with

Speaker 1 (42m 49s): You can, you can, you can pretend to be your son.

Speaker 2 (42m 52s): Yeah. Oh, I like new sons. Yes, for sure. So, but yeah, that’s the way that, that’s my next opportunity to meet. Do a meet and greet. And then I, I don’t think I’ll be at DC just because it’s so close to Christmas and you can see me online. I do one on one, you know cam to cam all the time. Live privates. I do customs. Catch me on Sex Panther for sure.

Lily Craven. I have so much fun on that, that site.

Speaker 1 (43m 26s): Excellent. And before we go, why don’t you gimme some ways your fans can follow you.

Speaker 2 (43m 32s): Okay. You can follow me on Twitter at Lilly l i l y, Craven, C A V E n xxx. You can catch me on. I finally am on only fans. Great. Finally dabbling in it. So that is Lily Craven and mini vids. I’m definitely, you know, going strong there. And that’s lily cravis.com and my own website, lily craven xxx.com.

Speaker 1 (44m 3s): Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (44m 5s): See

Speaker 1 (44m 6s): And please listen to her podcast phone with Lily. I know you’ll enjoy it Lil my dear.

Speaker 2 (44m 15s): I was gonna say on Skyhawk after dark tv.com.

Speaker 1 (44m 19s): There you go. And, and everywhere fine podcasts are found, like I said. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44m 24s): Everywhere. Yes. Spotify, apple, Amazon, you name it.

Speaker 1 (44m 28s): Exactly. Well, Lilly Madeira, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk. And you’re welcome. I know we’ll get a chance to do this again at some point soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 39s): Yeah, cuz you’re coming online. I’m gonna get you next. Oh baby.

Speaker 1 (44m 44s): My broker tip today is part five of How to buy an adult website. Last week we talked about how to determine the value of a site, how to negotiate the sale, and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement. What should be in it? Well, your attorney will guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint. What is the date you’d like to close? Make sure you know that you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase.

By then, I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and it just causes issues. Make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records including 2257 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites. Of course, it should spell out any payment schedule if there is one who’s responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow.

And there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller’s situation. This assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your attorney so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Vex Ruby of Viro Live studio. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk.

I’d once again like to thank my guest, Lily Craven. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Kristel Penn of Grooby

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords.

As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner has developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third party sites. The store currently has no employees.

Aside from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business, SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Crystal Penn of Groovy Crystal, thanks for being with us today on Adult Side Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 45s): Thank you for having me, even though it took me very long to get back to you. So thank you for being so gracious.

Speaker 1 (2m 50s): Hey, if, if I’m anything, I’m persistent. Crystal received her bachelor of arts degree from George Washington University and holds a marketing certificate from Santa Monica College. She’s currently enrolled at California Southern University in their Masters in Psychology program and is a marriage and family therapist trainee at the T plus Center in Orange County. As the creative and editorial director at Grubby Penn uses her unique reach to foster community among performers.

With over 12 years of experience in the adult industry, she’s worked diligently to promote visibility and empowerment through sex positivity. She also serves as the executive producer of the Trans Erotica Awards, also known as the teas, An event that exclusively honors the accomplishments of the trans adult industry. Penn won the 2021 xbi Industry exec Community Figure of the Year award and the 2017 xbi Industry Exec Brand Ambassador of the Year award.

She’s presented numerous educational workshops and panels in both the adult and non-adult industries. For more information, you can visit crystal penn.com, that’s K R I S T E L P E nn.com, or follow her on Twitter at the Crystal Penn. Spelled the same way. How was that for your commercial?

Speaker 2 (4m 13s): That made me sound way cooler than I am, so thank you. I’m gonna definitely use that later somewhere

Speaker 1 (4m 19s): You may, May. Now, Grubby is the leading producer of trans erotica since 1996, founded by Steven Grubby. This powerhouse production company manages numerous membership sites and produces at least four DVDs a month. The company also hosts the annual teas, which started as a humble online competition and has since expanded into a successful two day event in Hollywood. Welcoming guests from all around the world, visit gro.com and the show.com for more information.

Crystal, what do you have planned for the 2020 threes?

Speaker 2 (4m 56s): So 2023 is cool because one, it is the second year we, we will be doing it in person since the pandemic. Nice. And two, it’s actually our 15 year anniversary. Oh, very good. Yeah, so we wanna do it up as big as possible. As you mentioned, we started out as a very, very humble online competition. And then we used to play, we used to have the event at like shitty little nightclub in Los Angeles. And so in our current form at the Avalon, it’s, it’s definitely the biggest venue that we’ve, that we’ve been, that been at, and we wanna keep growing there.

And so I’m working on some special entertainment for the evening for guests who who do attend.

Speaker 1 (5m 33s): Sounds good. Any announcements you wanna make?

Speaker 2 (5m 37s): None that, Well, I guess it depends on when this episode comes out. Maybe the safest thing that I can say is that we are going to make the official announcement for pre nominations on November 1st, and that pre nomination period is gonna run from then till November 13th.

Speaker 1 (5m 52s): Sounds good. Well, this is gonna certainly run after November 1st, but you and I are, are gonna get together on when the best time is to run it. Perfect. So, so for those who don’t know about the event, can you tell us more about the event and its history?

Speaker 2 (6m 7s): Yeah, so like I mentioned, it started as an online competition and mostly it was because we were frustrated, particularly Steven, with the lack of trans-specific categories at the major award shows. And so we thought, well, fuck it, we will just make our own, you know, And I think at the time it was this well-intentioned competition, but we didn’t really think that far ahead. We didn’t really anticipate the type of traction that we were going to receive from it. And I think the positive feedback, and obviously the, the show has changed multiple times since its first incarnation back 10, 15, 10, 15 years ago, essentially.

I’m very proud of the way that it’s sort of grown and taken its own shape. I think it’s been a very organic growth.

Speaker 1 (6m 53s): How has it changed over the years?

Speaker 2 (6m 55s): Well, the one thing that people will always say is that the name has changed. And so, like I said, when the, the competition was made, the name was different and it was using language that was not super affirming. And, you know, 15 years ago the landscape, at least in terms of of of language in pornography was a little bit different. Sure. And, you know, since then, I mean, that’s been the biggest thing that we’ve changed and something that we’re very proud to have changed. And I think in addition to that, the fact that we’ve moved to an in-person event and not just an in-person event at like a small club, but to, to really host it at somewhere as historic as the Avalon.

And then to have it be, you know, a two day event in which you, because like for for trans performers, this is the only event that honors them specifically. Yeah. And you know, I think other awards shows have made great strides to be more inclusive and I think that’s wonderful. They have different and larger platforms than us, but you know, this is the one time of the year where the trans adult industry is right at the forefront in terms of celebrating, which I think is absolutely important. So I think to see the event be in this form where it’s taken such a great, I think grand stage, I, I, I think is wonderful.

Speaker 1 (8m 5s): Talk a little bit about trans porn and how it’s evolved since that show had its first incarnation.

Speaker 2 (8m 15s): I definitely see more performers. I definitely have seen more diversity. And I think part of it is because, you know, the stuff that we talk about in porn that the issues that come up in porn, it doesn’t exist in a vacuum. So there’s often a parallel right, between the things that we’re discussing in porn in our industry and what’s happening kind of like in mainstream society. And a large part of it has to do with sort of l lgbtq inclusivity, you know? And especially like, I think awareness about trans identity and like trans community.

And so we’ve seen a shift in the last 15 years where I think, you know, trans porn was a very small niche. Yeah. And, you know, something that I remember encountering like in the industry was like, there was a lot of, there was a lot of stigma, you know, And I think that that has started to shift in terms of conversation, whether it’s sort of like business to business or, you know, within performer community, I, I definitely see much more openness and acceptance.

Speaker 1 (9m 13s): Yeah. I, I mean, to me, trans porn used to be kind of in this little corner and there was Steven at shows and I’ve always had a ton of respect for the man. And I mean, I remember talking to him when he had pretty much first gotten started and just had a few sites. And now to see where it’s come today, it’s just mind blowing.

Speaker 2 (9m 39s): Yeah. It’s come, it’s come such a long way. Like I definitely remember, and obviously I haven’t been in the industry as long as Steven, you know, but even when he and I used to do the shows like kind of in the beginning of my career, I remember, I remember how people viewed us, you know, I remember our place in the industry. I remember what doors were open for us and what doors were not, you know, And I think he had to really endure kind of being in this corner of the industry that was not super like, I think well respected and not

Speaker 1 (10m 8s): Prestigious at all. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (10m 10s): No. You know what I mean? And I think Steven has always been kind of the mindset to like, do it anyway. Yep. You know, and not be, and I think to his credit, not be super bothered by the lack of, I think, you know, acceptance in that way. And I think that’s really helped to pave the way to make the genre like what it is.

Speaker 1 (10m 27s): No, he doesn’t, he’s not bothered by much and quite frankly

Speaker 2 (10m 30s): Not.

Speaker 1 (10m 31s): I, I love his ad, I love his attitude. It’s like, it’s no nonsense. It’s no bullshit. He gets right to the point and he gets things done. And I can’t respect that more. I, I just can’t. So I, I’m, I’m a big fan of his, huge fan of his, What’s it like to attend? And maybe one of these days he’ll actually come on my podcast. What’s it like to attend the teas? How does it compare to other industry events?

Speaker 2 (11m 1s): So I’ve been told, and this is no disrespect to the other events, but I’ve been told by folks that it’s the, the most fun of the award shows. I like to liken it to like, we’re like the goth table of the industry where everybody is invited, everybody is considered a misfit. Like it is, it is purposely a very inclusive space. Sure. And I mean, I think part of the reason why is because our event is smaller so we’re able to cultivate that type of community. But it, to me, it feels like an event where you’re invited, like, and not just invited, but like, we’re excited that you’re here and that you’re participating, that you’re celebrating.

And I think because of that, it, it feels like a very, very joyous occasion.

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): I mean, just gimme an idea from start to finish, how the teas go down kind of put us in the room.

Speaker 2 (11m 50s): So we used to do it, we mixed it. So sometimes we used to do it as a pre-party, sometimes we did it as an after party. We’ve played around with the scheduling because we were trying to figure out when people were getting the most drunk when, when they were getting the most drunk and figuring out which events they were gonna come to depending on how drunk they were. So that’s the formula that we’ve been, that’s classic. That’s cause you have to do math, right? Cause it’s like if people get too slosh on one night, you know, what is the likelihood that they’re gonna miss the other thing? And so the formula that we use now is we do a pre-party on Friday and then Saturday nothing.

So people can be hungover, it’s fine. And then Sunday we do the awards and then no after party. And we, we find that doing it that way allows people to get excited to see people that they like and then basically sleep all day Saturday and then I guess part of Sunday.

Speaker 1 (12m 40s): I love it. So that’s pretty drunk. So how long have you been working for Grubby and how did you get into the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (12m 49s): So, very random story. I, I got into the adult industry about 12 years ago and I, I was having an existential crisis in Hawaii where I was like, I’m gonna write the Great American novel, but also I don’t wanna do anything. And I was taking nightlife photos in Hawaii for a bit and our accountant was somebody that I knew socially. And so we had a meeting cuz she knew I was looking for work. And she’s like, Oh, you know, can you, can you use Photoshop? And I was like, Yeah, I can do Photoshop. She’s like, Okay, well it’s porn.

And I was like, Okay, whatever. She’s like, Well it’s trans porn. I was like, okay, whatever. And so I interviewed with Steven and he hired me. And so originally I got hired to be a photo retouch and I was, I was terrible at it. And I think that I only got hired because I knew the accountant and I knew someone else that that worked for us. And it took me on my first day of work, eight hours to Photoshop out toilet paper from a butt hole. I was like, I was so terrible. Like, I don’t even know if we used those, those sets, but they were awful. And, and the next day I remember Stephen was training me on something and he realized that I could write that that was actually where my forte was.

And so he’s like, Oh fuck, I’m not gonna have you do photos, I’m gonna have you write. And so I started to do blogging for grubby and I used to do some webmaster stuff and I kind of just worked my way up, worked my way up the chain to create the position that I have now.

Speaker 1 (14m 10s): So what all does the position you have now entail? What are your job duties?

Speaker 2 (14m 17s): So, no, no, but whole Photoshopping thing. So I’ve, I’ve gladly moved out of that sphere indeed. Yeah. And so, you know, we’re, we’re still, we are still a small company and so we all in some ways wear multiple hats officially. Where my job, what my job entails is kind of like in focusing on how our brand is perceived by the public and then the aspect of it in terms of like community outreach. And so what can we do for our performers, how can we do right by them?

And then a large part of my job now is being the executive producer of the tees. You know, even though it started out as a small event, now that it’s the size that it’s at, it requires we’re months of planning. So that’s a like where the bulk of my year goes to now.

Speaker 1 (15m 3s): Yeah. It sounds like quite an undertaking. People don’t realize what it takes to plan an event like that. Do they?

Speaker 2 (15m 11s): Yeah, I think they don’t realize how long it takes. And I think how expensive it is, everything costs money, you know what I mean? Even just the cost to rent the venue alone, like for an evening is like well over $10,000. You know. And so I think the mis assumption people have sometimes is that like, we’re making money hand over fist running the event. But the truth is that like we price our sponsorships specifically like at a low rate compared to other award shows because we’re not trying to make money.

And also we want to encourage folks to buy into community if they want to. And so, you know, then a model can sponsor versus it only being, you know, limited to big corporations sponsoring events. So we wanna see more diversity in who supports it essentially.

Speaker 1 (15m 56s): Yeah, that’s great. I would, I would imagine that the inflation rate in America has really hit events like the teas.

Speaker 2 (16m 7s): It’s been rough. Like we’ve, even though things have cost more, we, we are trying to be mindful of the fact that it also means that people’s money is not going as far. And so we actually very seldomly raise our prices. So like this year and last year, our prices are identical. And last year we had a clause where if we, if we had to cancel due to Covid because we also were unsure of whether we would be able to go through it, that that we, we would basically refund everybody and just take the loss.

Speaker 1 (16m 36s): Wow, that’s phenomenal. So what are the most rewarding things about your job?

Speaker 2 (16m 41s): I’m sure my answer might have been different 10 years ago, but now I’m old and seasoned and stuff. Well

Speaker 1 (16m 47s): That’s because you’re not getting toilet paper outta but holes. Right.

Speaker 2 (16m 51s): I definitely worked my way up and like, I think when I was younger, like what felt really rewarding was like being able to like go out and socialize and meet folks. And that part still is very important to me now to a certain extent, but like Steve, I’ve worked for Steven for so long and he knows that I just wanna, I wanna do certain things using my privilege and using like the platform that we have. And so he has in some ways given me free reign to do so. And like, and I tell him this and he will tell you this as well, that like my focus is not on making money and maybe that makes me a bad business person, but he, I don’t think he has hired me for my sole purpose of like being a great business person who wants to make money.

It, I, I wanna make money, don’t get me wrong. But I think I’ve always been interested in the community aspect of it. So like how can we support the folks that we are making money from? I think that there’s a way that like it can be a very symbiotic relationship where like we can help them and, and they can help us and that there’s enough to go around for all of us to be successful. So like, you know, for example, Steven or, or Grubby basically is sponsoring a therapy support group that I’m gonna get to run through the center. And so folks, trans sex workers will be able to join for free because grubby is sponsoring the cost.

So stuff like that, like I really appreciate the platform Steven has given me to pursue things that are like non-traditional.

Speaker 1 (18m 13s): Right, right. No, I mean there’s, there’s no doubt the commitment that you guys have to the trans porn community, I mean it’s, it’s very easy to see.

Speaker 2 (18m 25s): That means a lot to me. Cause I think our industry is small in comparison to like mainstream and also I don’t think we are a company that doesn’t get flack. I mean we get flack all the time for things and I think sometimes it feels discouraging that like, you know, we can have good intentions and it falls flat or you know, things get misunderstood. And so I, it makes me happy to hear that the way that we are perceived is a positive thing.

Speaker 1 (18m 52s): Oh, I think so. I think so. Well the old saying you can’t please all the people all the time. Very,

Speaker 2 (18m 58s): Very

Speaker 1 (18m 58s): True. And in this day and age, sometimes you’re gonna alienate somebody with anything you say.

Speaker 2 (19m 6s): Right.

Speaker 1 (19m 7s): So that’s the unfortunate part of today’s world with social media and PC and this and that. It’s just, it’s impossible not to offend somebody.

Speaker 2 (19m 18s): Yeah, it is a, it is a very tricky thing and I think like for Steven and I, we have a lot of internal conversations about that because his meter for stuff and my meter for stuff right, are different. And so we get into it a lot and like it’s helpful because I think it helps us to see like how many different points of view around something can be.

Speaker 1 (19m 38s): Sure. Yeah. I mean it’s, it’s important to discuss things because if it’s just one person making the decisions, like in my company, sometimes those decisions are not going to be all that positive. I think I do okay with that. But it’s good, It’s good to have more than one person to have as a sounding board.

Speaker 2 (20m 0s): Yeah, I think so I think it’s helped us to like mitigate what could be mistakes and also to like, I think unders like really I think to understand kind of like there can be multiple answers to the same problem, like multiple solutions

Speaker 1 (20m 14s): Of course. So what is one of the most challenging aspects of your job?

Speaker 2 (20m 19s): I think that there are no, there are not enough hours in the day. And because we all wear multiple hats, our, our time gets divided up in weird ways sometimes I think it’s gotten better. I think we’ve streamlined, but I think what’s challenging is like, I mean the reality of it is we’re still a small company and we only have enough, like certain number of hours in the day and we only have a certain number of staff. And so to me there are sometimes like really great ideas that we have that we just can’t execute cuz we don’t have the time to do so.

Right. And so to like, to I think release attachment to those, you know, those kinds of dreams I think is the most challenging thing for me. Cause there’s so many things I wanna do.

Speaker 1 (21m 0s): Of course. So what are some new projects in the works for Groovy?

Speaker 2 (21m 6s): Let’s see. So we are, we, we have a magazine that we’ve been publishing Ruby Girls Magazine, which is free and for community, we stopped that at a certain point during the pandemic and also, like I said, short of short staff. And so we’re gonna bring that back. The other thing that we’ve been working on, which will be announced soonish will be a hall of fame that we’re working on, which is separate but related to thet show. But we would like to honor folks in our communities for the work that they’ve been doing.

Speaker 1 (21m 38s): Very cool.

Speaker 2 (21m 39s): That sounds

Speaker 1 (21m 39s): Excited. Yeah, that sounds like, that sounds like something that would be very, very well received.

Speaker 2 (21m 45s): Yeah, we have these other projects that I can’t quite name yet, but they do have this. Oh. Kinda like it’s not gonna come out until next year, I think that’s why. So, but we have these things where the initiative is kind of focused on how we can honor and celebrate like the performers that work with us. And so we’ve definitely have been putting intentional time and energy to see how we can help elevate those folks.

Speaker 1 (22m 8s): Okay. So what’s something unique you learned as a result of being in the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (22m 14s): Before working in the adult industry, I had this preconceived notion of how I thought I had to do business to be successful in any field, you know, and some of that, it just is not super congruent to who I am as a person. I’m very like, I’m very passive. I wanna do the right thing. Like I’m very, I’m not, I’m not super shrewed as a business person, but I think I had this very young preconceived notion that in order to be successful I needed to, to operate in the industry this way.

And especially because I, I don’t look like the other folks in the business sector of the adult industry. I’m Asian, I’m very, very short. I look how I look and so I know that I don’t come to the table in the same way as other folks, but what I have learned is that like I haven’t deviated from that. I haven’t, I haven’t acted in any way that has been untrue to who I am. Like I am nice. I believe in the sharing of resources, I be believe in community and I’ve been very fortunate that I’ve been rewarded for those things.

Yeah. And I don’t think that that’s spec, I don’t think that that would’ve necessarily have happened for me in any other industry. But for whatever reason it has all come together in a way that it is, it’s, it’s validated my identity to say that I don’t have to be anybody else other than myself to succeed. Which is I think a wonderful, and I think, I dunno a very lucky lesson.

Speaker 1 (23m 37s): Well I think it says a lot for the adult industry because you can be who you are. Let’s face it, we’re all outcasts. Okay? Yes. The industry, the people outside, a lot of people outside the industry think of us as outlaws, not just Outkast. Yeah. And if you, if you look at all the negatives being thrown at the industry now, not to mention the negatives being thrown at the transgender community, we won’t even go there. We’re people who are very accepting of everything you have to be, if you’re in the adult industry, nothing should phase you.

Nothing should make you go, Oh God, that’s terrible. Right? Because something, everything we do turns somebody on. And that’s a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 (24m 25s): I think like what’s also been interesting when we talk about like social capital that like for me and my identity, how I, how I have to walk through the, like the real world, like the non-industry world, like, you know, I’ve been bullied, I’ve been ostracized, all of these things. But like in the adult industry, right? Because like you said, we’re all, we’re all misfits to certain things. We’re all, we’re all sort of like outcasts that like it’s honored differently, right? Difference of identity is honored differently than I think it is in the real world.

Speaker 1 (24m 53s): Yeah, I I would agree. So I hear you’re also currently in grad school. We were talking about that before we went on for psychology. Now what would you like to do with your soon to be degree?

Speaker 2 (25m 5s): So I would like to create a certification program for therapists who wanna work with sex workers. A complaint that I hear and, and, and a big reason actually why I decided to go into therapy as sort of a secondary career is because so many people, not just like in our specific part of the industry, but in the industry overall talk about wanting to seek mental health services but not receiving competent care. Right. You know, and this is obviously a community that deserves to have competent care and deserves to access it. And so needs it absolutely needs it.

Absolutely needs it. And so how can I use my privilege and my experience to bridge that gap, you know? And so I wanna create a certification program. I’ve been doing these educational workshops for sex workers to teach them how to find a competent affirming therapist. And right. I’m starting a, I think I mentioned earlier, like a trans sex worker support group, which will branch out and there are other support groups that I wanna offer, but like, how can I create like safe mental health spaces specifically for sex worker community? And so those are the things that I, that I would like to be working on or are working on in the next I guess few months.

Speaker 1 (26m 9s): That’s awesome. Are you doing anything with the pineapple support?

Speaker 2 (26m 13s): I don’t. They do some wonderful work. The focus that I have because I work at the LGBTQ center is to funnel source funnel resources. That way when it makes sense for folks who are in California and like the purpose of me doing the workshop is that for folks who end up not using pineapple support, either because they transition out of the industry or do use pineapple support, but want extra tools to figure out who’s gonna be a good fit. Like the ideas that the tools I give them can be used for anybody, whether they go through an organization or not.

Speaker 1 (26m 43s): Sure. What do you like to do? This is gonna kind of sound like a, a little bit of a pun, but what do you like to do in your free time?

Speaker 2 (26m 53s): Oh yeah, there’s no free time, but every once in a while I’ll play music or I make, I make content like mental health content on TikTok. And that’s been actually a, a nice like space for my brain to take a break. So I’ll play, I’ll play a little cheesy, you know, Whitney Houston cover songs on TikTok or I’ll talk about sort of mental health, you know, topics and, but yeah, that’s, that’s few. I will say it’s been few and far between. I should probably, I should probably do it more often now that you mentioned it.


Speaker 1 (27m 23s): What’s your, yeah, what’s your instrument of choice?

Speaker 2 (27m 27s): Guitar if only because piano is not super convenient and I’ll play, I usually shoot it in my car as little like short, you know, one minute clips. But yeah, I think

Speaker 1 (27m 37s): Guitar, I can’t get a piano in there.

Speaker 2 (27m 39s): No, I, I mean I wanna get those little tiny like eighties casios and so maybe that’s

Speaker 1 (27m 44s): Next. Yeah. Very cool. So you also own, and this is the reason you have no spare time cuz you do so many things. You also own your own marketing and PR firm, and I hope I get this right, e key guy marketing. Yes. Did I do okay with that? Perfect. So when did you start that? I’d ask you for phonetics, When did you start that and what does it do?

Speaker 2 (28m 6s): So Ikigai and Japanese essentially means reason for being, and it, it’s become a concept that’s been fairly popular in the last few years and it looks like a Venn diagram where it’s like what we’re good at, what the world needs cetera. And in like, the middle overlapping piece is supposed to be our reason for being. And, and in 2000, I think 16, in 2016 when I was at Avian, I remember this distinctly, Aubrey, Kate and Foxy came up to me and they were like, You should do pr. And I was like, well I do marketing for grubby, you know, like I already have, I already do something.

And they’re like, No, you should do, you should do PR to represent to us because there’s nobody who understands our community in the same way. And I was like, Oh, maybe, I don’t know, I have to think about it. And you know, I kind of brushed it off. I thought they were being very kind, but I was like, well I’m not qualified to do this, you know, And I, I thought about it and I talked to Steven to make sure it was okay. And then I, I started off really small, you know, I took on only a few clients at the time and the idea behind Eki guy is that like, I don’t believe that there’s one, And, and Ruby has been very helpful in, in me creating a blueprint for this.

But like there’s no, there’s no one blueprint for success. And also because I was working exclusively at the time with adult performers that like, I didn’t wanna give them marketing advice that felt incongruent to who they are. I didn’t wanna give them that. I didn’t wanna be like, Hey, it’d be really great if you did anal and did this. And it was like, you know, on their no list. And so, you know, I made them fill out this very lengthy kind of life coach questionnaire. And part of it is like my therapy background is like, how can we help performers identify what is their eki?

Because I believe that if we can identify that, then the likelihood that success will be the most sustainable for them will be higher. Because like when someone tells you to do something and you don’t wanna do it, the likelihood that you’ll do it and follow through over long period of time is very low in my opinion. Very true. Right? And so how can we help, how can I help performers identify what actually makes them the happiest or what feels the most congruent to them, you know, and as a brand and how can I center my marketing around that? So it started with the two of them and has since branched out.

And I work with not just adult performers, but I’ve worked with sex educators, I worked with Penthouse briefly, I work with therapists. Yeah. I worked with restaurants. And so it’s really run the gamut at this point.

Speaker 1 (30m 28s): So you actually found a way to merge counseling and pr.

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): Yeah. You know, and I think I, I have to think groupy for this part as well, is that like, I mean, Groupy has been in business for 25 years. 25 years. Yeah. I think it’s 25 years. And how do you convince somebody right to pay for their porn at this? Like in this day and age it is near right. It’s, it’s, it’s a very big hurdle for us. And I think what we identified as a company is that like, it really is in the emotional connection that our company makes with whether it’s the content or the company itself makes with buyers that tells them to choose our company over piloting our stuff or choosing another company.

And I think that that piece is the part that I use for Eki guy because I think it, it translates over very well, even though it seems, I think random on the outside.

Speaker 1 (31m 16s): Yeah. The tubes are certainly a challenge because a lot of content goes on there without the company’s authorization and other providers are on there. And I know, I know Steven’s very, very good at, at removing content. We’ve had this conversation before. So I mean, how do you fight that battle?

Speaker 2 (31m 40s): I mean, in some ways it’s a, it’s a losing battle because I think totally stuff goes up, right? Like quicker than we can take it down. It doesn’t mean, I mean, it doesn’t mean that we don’t do our due diligence and still do it though, you know what I mean? Like, so even though we know it’s in some ways a losing battle, like we work really hard to get stuff removed, You know, we work really hard, I think to put up content that we consent to putting up, we put up clips so that we were still getting the traffic and we’re still getting the brand awareness, but we’re controlling like what is putting, what is being put out. And I mean, the other thing which I mean, I don’t know if Steve, Well I think Steven would say this is that like we go after people who steal our content and then, you know, we, we, we tell them, if you don’t do this or don’t do that, if you don’t take it down, you know, we’re gonna proceed legally.

Which I think, you know, titillates Steven to a certain extent because it’s like putting power back in our hands.

Speaker 1 (32m 31s): What amazes me is that some people put entire movies, entire clips onto tube sites. It just, I mean, how is that gonna help you sell anything?

Speaker 2 (32m 44s): It’s like, it is so shortsighted on their part. And I think there’s also this kind of, this other culture that’s happening that’s like the pi like pirate culture, you know, where there’s like no loyalty to anybody. It’s really just to steal content and then to just put it up. And so that’s like what we’re competing against, essentially.

Speaker 1 (33m 2s): Well, yeah. And that’s not, that’s not just in porn. That’s in mainstream movies. Yes, that’s in music, that’s in everything’s, it’s, and it’s something I hate. I still buy CDs, you know, I, I don’t, I don’t even, I don’t like the quality of, of the online downloads, the, the mp3. So I just, I still buy CDs because I, I believe in supporting the artists, many of whom are my friends. We’ve got a lot of friends who are jazz artists and I’m not gonna rip them off. It’s not gonna happen. Now some of them have sent me their albums in, in rather audio file form and that’s great, you know, but my, my preference is to buy it is to make sure they get credit.

Who are some of your clients with Iki Guy?

Speaker 2 (33m 46s): So on the adult industry end, I have Foxy, I have Jamie Kelly, I have Mme. Morgan, who else? I have Domino Presley. I also signed Lindsey Banks, who is a, a cam performer who just actually celebrated her 10 year adult industry anniversary this month. That was pretty cool. Yeah. Great. I think that’s all I have right now in the adult sphere. And then the other folks I work with are all in like therapy practices

Speaker 1 (34m 12s): And they need marketing too.

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): I’m hoping I’m not forgetting anybody. Maybe we put in addendum if I,

Speaker 1 (34m 17s): It’s okay.

Speaker 2 (34m 18s): I don’t get in trouble.

Speaker 1 (34m 21s): So what is the sad but Rad Club? Nice name. I see it’s a project you’ve been working on as well.

Speaker 2 (34m 28s): Yeah, I don’t, like I said, I, I don’t sleep. I probably should, but I, I started Saba Rad Club during the pandemic, which probably makes the most sense. And it was like, yes, at least here in the States, there was a part of the pandemic where it really felt like we were in lockdown. And maybe actually they even called it that where you weren’t, they really like, encouraged you not to leave the house. Yes. And it wasn’t great, you know, and honestly, like, I’m too old to use TikTok, so I was trying to figure it out. I don’t know how to fucking dance. And so I couldn’t figure that out. I couldn’t figure out the, you know, the buttons on there.

And I actually, my account was gonna be a groovy account, so it was called, you know, it was like Crystal, it was like my name, It was like Crystal Pan. And I, I started to make kind of weird, weird like pandemic isolation content that I thought was creative but like, was really pandemic brain. And I noticed that like the stuff that I did that was mental health related got really good traffic, like way, way more than like other stuff. And so after a while I thought, you know what, I’m gonna pivot what this account is and do something else.

And I thought, oh, sad A rad club. You know, it encapsulates kind of what I believe that like we can hold all of these identities and it doesn’t make us any less of who we are. And, and I’ve used this platform to help destigmatize what it means to be mentally ill in the stigma around it. And I think I’ve also used this platform as a funnel, I mean, basically to talk about destigmatizing sex work, which, you know, it, that’s not the focus of the platform, that’s not the focus of the account. But like, I use my messaging and I use even just me as being like a pseudo public figure to talk about sort of normalizing what consensual sex work is.

Speaker 1 (36m 10s): So where do you find your inspiration for videos? For the Sad but Rad Club?

Speaker 2 (36m 15s): It’s really from, I mean, we were in pandemic lockdown for quite some time, so some of it came from that. It came from like really just being stuck in the house and having it, all of that stress of not knowing what was going on. And like, my content has since shifted, so like it parallels what’s going on in my, in my real life. And so I talk about being in grad school and I talk about, you know, being a therapist trainee, but early on when I was in the pandemic, a lot of it was actually grief focused.

So by the time I made sad, but RA Club as a TikTok account, like our, my coworker and my friend had passed away from cancer. Like, oh jeez. Yeah, it was, I don’t even remember. It was a few months before. And so a lot of the content in the beginning was really just working through my grief and having, you know, I think having a platform to do it and not really expecting or hoping other people to consume it. It was really just, I think for my own process. And, and since then it’s shifted, like I said. But I think in the beginning I had less foresight into like, specifically what my content was gonna be because I didn’t know.

I didn’t, I didn’t, I don’t, I didn’t, I didn’t set out to create it. And also like we were in a pandemic and it felt like the world was on fire.

Speaker 1 (37m 29s): Yeah. Felt like the world was ending.

Speaker 2 (37m 31s): Yeah, it was, it was scary. Like I, I just listened to this podcast called Serial and they had a three-part episode that talked, it talked about this woman who lost her dad and her brother during Covid, like the height of the pandemic. And it talked about like, she was going through their text messages and seeing all of the, the, the paranoia about Covid. And I think at the time, you know, like the information that they’re passing along, like, oh, the vaccinated people are actually the dangerous ones cause they’re shedding the virus. I think about, you know, what, what the pandemic looked like then and it’s, it’s, I know it’s not that long ago, but it feels, it’s kinda wild to think about our conceptualization of like the pandemic now versus then and how much, Right.

Like I think how scary it was for folks and still is,

Speaker 1 (38m 17s): Well it’s still, it’s still not completely over A lot of people want, People want, a lot of people wanna say when there was a pandemic, there’s still people getting covid and there’s still some people dying. Yes. Now I’m not sure the exact meaning of the word, the exact definition of the word pandemic. We may, it may not fit that anymore, but still people are getting covid and still people are dying. Friend of mine, I was down at the Catalina Jazz Festival at the end of our trip and I had lunch on Monday, a week ago Monday with the friend and she got Covid.

Speaker 2 (38m 52s): Oh, fortunately,

Speaker 1 (38m 53s): Fortunately I didn’t.

Speaker 2 (38m 54s): Right.

Speaker 1 (38m 55s): She poured, she poured her, she poured her, she thought she’d be funny and she poured her martini into my drink, into my, into my Bloody Mary. Fortunately it was alcohol. So, you know, I didn’t get anything but it

Speaker 2 (39m 7s): Was spared.

Speaker 1 (39m 8s): Yeah, no kidding. If it was anything but a martini, I’m sure I would’ve gotten Covid. Right. So if you weren’t working in the adult industry, where would you be and what would you be doing?

Speaker 2 (39m 19s): I think angsty 20 something year old me, which was me before I started working for grubby would say that I would be a writer. And I think that’s probably, I think I would be writing or creating something in some capacity and maybe I would be very poor because who knows if I would be good at it or not. So there would be that, like I do think that mental health in some capacity would’ve also come up at some point. Like I think I would’ve, I think me being a therapist was just a very natural fit. So I think, I think I would’ve in some ways taken the same path even if I wasn’t in the adult industry.

Speaker 1 (39m 51s): Yeah. I’ve, I’ve got all the respect in the world for the mental health industry. It’s, it’s something that I utilize as a very small child. When my mom and dad were breaking up and I was like, I don’t know, six years old, eight years old. So look, it’s something I’ve always believed in. It’s something that I’ve always said as very important. Shouldn’t have a stigma. And I’m a very proud bipolar as well. So there you go. So

Speaker 2 (40m 20s): I love that you like, name it like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40m 23s): Hey, 30% of the population, we’re not even, we’re not the majority. I think it’s, I think it’s something to be proud of, so I love that. Anybody wants to know it. That’s fine. They can know it, so it doesn’t bother me. Well ate, I’d like to, I’d really like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon.

Speaker 2 (40m 45s): Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And like I said, for making space for this conversation, it, it really means a lot to me,

Speaker 1 (40m 51s): Means a lot to me as well. Thank you. My broker tip today is part four of How to Buy a website. Last week we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer, the work begins. If you’re working with a broker, I don’t know, let’s say adult site broker for instance, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer, they may make a counteroffer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them.

A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site. You should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day, and any other pertinent questions you may have during due diligence.

You need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically, to integrate it with what you’re already doing. You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask those pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself draw up a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to do the agreement themselves. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules.

However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney change some of those rules. Nothing’s final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we do for our clients is a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent, and more so the agreement will have all the terms involved, including who pays for everything, who pays for escrow, for instance. This can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties.

We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with adult performer Lily Craven. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Kristel Penn of Grooby. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Steph Sia of the Podcast Stripped by Sia.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!

That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a successful gay site that has increased revenues and profits year over year for a decade. The site has 835 active members. The average monthly content cost is less than $2,000. This year’s average monthly net profit is over $18,000.

The best part about the site is that it basically runs itself. The director producer is happy to continue handling all the content, production, editing, and updates. All you have to do is to continue to take care of payroll and you’ll make your complete return on your investments safely and quickly. The content is hardcore gay porn with a strategic focus on a few niches, which all have been fine tuned for over 10 years into dependable, underserved markets. All of the content is exclusive with an influx of cash and a dedicated team to help grow the brand.

There’s a lot of opportunity. Some of the content is on d d and vod, but there’s a huge opportunity to increase VOD revenue streams. Best of all, if the buyer doesn’t change anything, it will continue and make a significant profit only $990,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and adult side broker talk is Steph Sia from the podcast Stripped by Sia. Steph, thanks for being with us today, an adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 53s): So excited and thank you so much for having me, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (2m 56s): Thanks for being here. Now Steph Sia is a stripper, a digital content creator and pole dance instructor based in Vancouver, Canada. She’s the host of the Sex Worker podcast strip by Sia, and she always enjoys a good bowl of noodles, much like my Thai wife Strip By is a podcast dedicated to destigmatizing the sex industry by sharing the lived experiences of the workers. Steph Sia, a sex worker of varying mediums, invites different guests onto the show from all corners of the adult industry to provide a transparent approach to the work that we do.

Each episode tackles a topic that affects sex workers with the aim to educate those who both are and who aren’t in our industry, as well as humanize and legitimize it. Join Steph every Sunday for new episodes, wherever find podcasts are found, and on Patreon at patreon.com/strip by C. That’s spelled s i a to see the video exclusive content. So how was the commercial Steph?

Speaker 2 (4m 9s): It was spot on. It was excellent. Check, check, check. You crossed it all off the list. Thank you so much for that fire intro. I

Speaker 1 (4m 16s): I, I do my best. So Steph, what was your entry into sex work?

Speaker 2 (4m 22s): Oh gosh. Well, I, there’s a couple different things here. So I have a few different phases when it comes to sex work, so, okay. I guess my official intro to sex work would actually be as a sugar baby. And this is probably about, yeah, almost a decade ago. And I had joined a very, I guess, well recognized website that is known for sugaring that was introduced to me by my roommate at the time. And basically, this is kind like around the same time that Tinder came around and my friend was like, Oh, why go on these dating apps when you can get, you know, paid to be on dates?

And I was like, Oh, well, sounds kind of interesting.

Speaker 1 (5m 1s): Exactly,

Speaker 2 (5m 2s): Try, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (5m 3s): It’s great to be, it’s, it’s great to be a girl. I’m envious.

Speaker 2 (5m 7s): It worked out and she was completely right. I was very, very interested in doing that and made a lot of sense to me. And yes, I really believe in making a bit of money. So that happened. And you know, I, I would say that like that’s my first official kind of intro into sex work. Although at the time I wasn’t really aware of it being work at that time. Yeah. So like that to me upon like reflection that that would be it.

But if you’d asked me that, like same question about five years ago, I would’ve said stripping. So in my entry into the strip industry was about six years ago when I decided to enter an amateur night contest. And yeah, the rest is history for, that’s pretty self explanatory,

Speaker 1 (5m 58s): Is that, you know, the whole term sex work has really morphed in recent years, especially in the last couple years, I’d say. It used to be if someone said sex work, they were strictly talking about prostitution. Right Now it, it has a much wider meaning. Have you, have you noticed that?

Speaker 2 (6m 21s): Oh, absolutely. It’s definitely come a long way and, and as you mentioned, like that’s like how my mom thinks when she thinks of the term sex work, she thinks it’s prostitution or escorting, you know, you’re having sex for money. And now I feel like the term, at least to me in my own definition, that really encompasses a wide range of adult related occupations. And some people would even argue that stripping isn’t included with that. But I definitely would say it is for sure.

But the term itself has definitely come a long way. And I think it’s because a lot of the terms that we once used before, they’ve had derogatory, derogatory terms and, and stuff associated with it. And now I feel like sex work as a term is, is almost like a PC way of addressing like adult workers.

Speaker 1 (7m 17s): Yeah. And I, I think that it really now entails everyone who’s involved with the adult industry, including what I do.

Speaker 2 (7m 26s): Yeah, definitely. I mean, it’s basically encompasses everyone who’s within the adult industry for sure. Like people that on my show, not just people that are in front of the camera or performers, but everyone as you mentioned, who is involved as well. So,

Speaker 1 (7m 43s): Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, how have your experiences doing sex work changed over the years?

Speaker 2 (7m 51s): Oh gosh. I feel like it’s constantly changing. I’m constantly evolving in learning and educating myself through the people that I bring on my show and just more and more that I like hear about every single day. And basically, oh gosh, I feel like when I first kind of stumbled into sex work, I was really naive before and didn’t really have a firm understanding of what the work was. Like I mentioned earlier, I didn’t really count sugaring, for example, as sex work.

But of course now because I’m super involved in many different aspects of the sex industry, I can really see the value and the hard work that goes into the work that it is that we do. And really, how do I say it? Like for me, it really is legitimized as opposed to before I would always like maybe kind of brush it off in terms of like, Oh, it’s just like a side gig or it’s a side hustle or, and I wouldn’t take full ownership of it.

Right. And now it’s something I definitely like, it’s public knowledge everywhere. If you know me, you’ll know that I’m associated with sex work in some capacity. So it’s definitely changed a lot. It’s my, I’ve been through an entire like evolution when it comes to sex work in my own personal journey and it’s been a wild ride, let me tell you that.

Speaker 1 (9m 18s): And proud of it.

Speaker 2 (9m 18s): Right? Yeah, definitely proud of it. It’s, it’s been one of the best things that’s ever, ever happened to me

Speaker 1 (9m 25s): For sure. That’s awesome. Now, what has sex work taught you?

Speaker 2 (9m 29s): Oh wow. Well, it’s definitely taught me to have empathy. I think empathy to understand where people are coming from, understand their stories, to be an active listener and to understand that not everything can be taken at face value. And there’s usually more to the story behind that. And I feel there is just, there’s so many stories and there’s so much to offer from sex workers and so much to learn from sex workers and from our community that are, it’s really, really powerful.

Like we have powerful stories to share. Oftentimes, you know, in the media we’re often, there’s lots of misconceptions or misunderstood and honestly, I’m kinda tired of people, other people telling our stories for us. So yes, I feel like it’s our time to give people a platform and for us to really listen and take people seriously. So it’s, it’s definitely taught me a lot about, yeah, I guess that word is empathy for me cuz it’s just taught me to better understand people as a whole.

Speaker 1 (10m 46s): Now, besides empathy, what else have you learned? You said you’ve learned a lot from sex workers. Yeah. What have you learned?

Speaker 2 (10m 54s): Oh, business acumen. Yeah, just business in general. Like I just feel like I had zero sense of like any kind of sales skills before or marketing even, even just administrative duties. A lot of stuff you, you, when you come into sex work, you don’t realize all of the extra stuff that goes on in the background or the video editing or the audio editing, right. Or right.

All the editing that you know goes on behind the scenes that you don’t see from the finished product. Right. That to me has been such a great learning that I have taken away from the industry. And also, like another big one to me is just boundaries and learning more about consent, learning my own boundaries and like what I can tolerate, what I will not tolerate as well.

Those have been really, really big ones for me. Cuz again, if you talk to me like 10 years ago when I was first starting out, I, I didn’t have any of this stuff. Yeah. Again, I didn’t treat it as a job, I didn’t treat it as a career. I didn’t take anything seriously in that kind of sense. So those to me are really, really big things that I’ve taken away from my time in the industry. And again, I’m still constantly learning more and more every day from the community.

There’s a lot to learn. Like even today I was learning about, I think I saw an article about visa and MasterCard being suspended for from port. So like, just stuff like that. Like there’s just so many things that can have like a, a domino effect from that. And yeah. And I, that’s like a whole entire topic that we don’t have time to go into today, but, but things like that and just, gosh, I mean, what else?

There really is a lot. But those are, those are three big buckets I think that I’ve definitely kind of to from sex work, so. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13m 12s): I think a lot of people, well especially people outside the business don’t realize it’s a business, but even a lot of people inside the business don’t really treat it like a business.

Speaker 2 (13m 23s): Yeah. Yeah. I was definitely guilty of that for a while. And you really have to, to be successful and like, I mean you gotta learn from somewhere and at some point and like you can really take your business from, from here to going all the way up here by just adopting a few of these principles. And I feel like everyone needs to like take a business course from one of the ex sex in in our community for sure. You can learn a lot.


Speaker 1 (13m 54s): Yeah, you can. And you can also learn a lot from talking to people and going on the forums like, like ex and and asking questions and

Speaker 2 (14m 3s): Oh

Speaker 1 (14m 3s): Yeah. Really leaning on some of the people that have been around a long time. And I, I know there’s also some good model forums and yeah. As well as social media groups.

Speaker 2 (14m 15s): Tons. Yeah, there’s tons of resources out there. So discord groups that I’m a part of, Facebook groups that I’m a part of as well. Again, just learning from the people that I bring onto my show was another thing. Even on Twitter, just conversations just on my Twitter that I see in my feet are topics of conversation that come up. There’s so many learning opportunities there and I feel like as you mentioned, people should lean into that.

They really want upgrade their game in this industry. For sure.

Speaker 1 (14m 54s): Now, besides what we just talked about, what other skills have you gained from sex work?

Speaker 2 (15m 0s): Oh man. Honestly, like valuing myself, I think that’s a big thing that I definitely learned for sure. Like, and what I mean by that is just like charging what I am valued at and what I deserve. Yes. You know, and again, and that is slightly related to what we were talking about earlier too, because like it’s more than just picking a number, it’s also like your time and your energy that goes into, say when you make a custom video or something, the time it takes for you to get ready, the equipment that you’re using to film the equipment you’re using to edit the mic, lighting your outfits, your makeup, your nails, your hair, all of that

Speaker 1 (15m 48s): Stuff. Your overhead.

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): Your overhead. Yeah. The toys you use, like so many things to come into account and I feel a lot of the times we can get bullied by clients or low by clients and I, you just have to kind of stand your ground. And of course sometimes it takes a couple years of experience to kind of find your footing in that. But that’s been a huge thing for me, especially in, in the last few years too, just really owning what I do and being like, well these are my rates.

Like take it or leave it and, and really being confident in that and I think that is something everyone should definitely learn and take into account as well is so important, so, so important.

Speaker 1 (16m 41s): Unfortunately that’s not the case with most people. I mean yeah. I just find that people don’t really value their time or properly or value their services properly.

Speaker 2 (16m 56s): Yeah. And I think that people really need to look at that a bit more seriously because Yeah. I mean for me, my time is literally money. Like, I run a really, really tight ship. I have a very like insane schedule. So every minute counts and I really wanna make sure that like I’m putting the right energy right into things and being really purposeful about the work that I’m doing. It’s really not a good use of my time if I’m kind of dilly-dallying and wasting on people that don’t see the same value or see the value in the work that I’m pointing out there.

Yeah. Those are not the type of clients that I wanna attract, not the people I really wanna be associated or affiliated with. So

Speaker 1 (17m 44s): I agree. So I agree so much. Cause I, cause I go through it in my business and just, just this morning, yes, I had an email exchange with the guy and it was pretty obvious that he just wasn’t worth my time. I hate to, I hate to put it in those terms, but, but, but this guy just was really clueless. Well I mean the, the asking questions like, well can I buy this with no money down?

No dude.

Speaker 2 (18m 17s): No. Any

Speaker 1 (18m 18s): Other questions? Yeah, I mean, because because we, we, we pride ourselves on having valuable good properties, websites, companies that we sell and you know, it’s like what would the logic be to take no money down? You know, we’re not a, we’re not a bank, we’re not selling cars here anyway, continue. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (18m 44s): But yeah, I mean, you understand where you, where I’m coming, right?

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Oh, completely. Completely. You know, I’m polite enough, I’m polite enough to always reply and I reply promptly. That’s, that’s, you know, the old school in me is that, is that I don’t let things sit around. I always reply. That doesn’t mean I have to be happy about

Speaker 2 (19m 5s): It. No, no and no, I agree. I agree though because like, you can kind of tell off the bat if you’re not aligning with someone or someone’s not aligned with what you’re looking for or what you stand for, then you’re just like, well it’s just not gonna work out. Let’s just like cut it off. Make it easy,

Speaker 1 (19m 25s): Big time.

Speaker 2 (19m 26s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (19m 27s): So what is, what’s been the best part of being in this industry for you?

Speaker 2 (19m 33s): Yeah, I mean this is an easy one for me. It’s the community. And what I mean by that is just all the people that I’ve met during my time here, it’s been awesome. Like I have really never met a community where I really feel like I’ve belonged. Yeah. And, and so quickly too, cause sometimes when you get into a community, sometimes it takes like some growing pains or takes some time for you to feel acquainted. Right. But I dunno, I’ve almost felt super welcomed in this industry since day one.

And everyone’s super helpful wanting you to succeed and that’s been so lovely and so comforting and I love that so much. I wish there are more communities that were like this, but there really isn’t nothing quite like it.

Speaker 1 (20m 23s): It’s very true. Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s interesting, you and I met at the why not reunion in, in Arizona. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Tempe and one thing I noticed, you were talking about marketing earlier and I meant to point this out, You are a good marketer. I could tell that right away with the lead cards you had, which is what I do, you might have noticed, you know, that I not only have a business card but, but I have a lead card. You know, it’s just very unusual to find someone, especially on the performance side who has your marketing skills.

So congratulations on that.

Speaker 2 (20m 59s): Oh, thank you. That means so much to me. I,

Speaker 1 (21m 2s): Well it’s true. I don’t, I don’t give, I don’t give false praise to people. If I believe something I say it. If I don’t, I just shut up. So

Speaker 2 (21m 12s): I think that maybe like I, I can attribute that to some of my administrative and marketing skills in my vanilla life too. Cause I also ha like I, in addition to sex work, I’m also a marketing consultant as well.

Speaker 1 (21m 28s): Well that doesn’t surprise me. So you work in the mainstream world as well?

Speaker 2 (21m 33s): Yeah, sort of. So I don’t work in an office anymore. I just, I take clients now doing regular just general communications and marketing, content management and newsletter email campaigns and stuff like that. Just picking, picking and choosing the things that I like to do. Sure. And working with the clients that I really like. So Yeah. And that has been awesome. So I’m glad you picked that up. That makes me

Speaker 1 (21m 57s): Well and that’s gotta be really valuable. That’s gotta be really valuable knowing what you’re doing.

Speaker 2 (22m 2s): Yeah, I mean I think it definitely helps for sure. And I’m not saying that everyone needs to have a background in corporate or anything like that, but it certainly can help. And I mean vice versa though too, because I feel like a lot of questions that I sometimes get like, Oh, I like what kind of transferable skills can you bring to the civilian world from sex work? And I feel like it definitely goes both ways cuz as you mentioned earlier, we’re like, we’ve learned so much in this industry and we can take that outside of the industry as well.

Yep, yep. And take it. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (22m 37s): I agree. I agree completely. My background’s in marketing too, so there

Speaker 2 (22m 42s): We go.

Speaker 1 (22m 42s): Yeah, there’s, there’s no two ways about it. One, one can spot another. So what, what are some of the not so great experiences in sex work that you can share?

Speaker 2 (22m 53s): Oh man. Where do I start? I mean yeah, there’s a lot of untrustworthy people in this industry Yeah. That might not have the best interests in mind Sure. For people. So for example, I am Yeah. In front of the camera. Yes. And I do my own videos and of course I need to do my own promo and stuff as well. So of course I’ve, I’m working with a lot of photographers. Yeah. Or at least I used to work with a lot of photographers before.

And then last year I actually, a model had contacted me via Instagram. Cause some of my photos were posted on this photographer’s Instagram account. Cause I had worked with him before and they had messaged me a article and this article had stated that this person was arrested for voyeurism because another model had found a camera in one of the changing rooms.

Lovely. Yeah. Not so great stuff. So I had to go deal with the police in a complete different city in Canada and deal with that. But luckily that’s all been dealt with. And that takes

Speaker 1 (24m 8s): Its clothes. There’s so many jerk, there’s so many jerk offs and curves out there.

Speaker 2 (24m 12s): There are like lots of, many dudes of the camera that exist in not just sex work. But yeah. I mean anything with like moding and whatnot, sexual assault can also happen as well. Sorry. Yeah. Due to the nature of some of the work that I do. And that’s again, being early on during those sugar baby days, not really having those boundaries and not setting them properly and just not being strong enough to say no in certain situations.

Yeah. Or, or being bribed or being like, you know, dangling the carrot of like, you know, well if you do this then I’ll pay you this more, this much more. And just again, not recognizing like, oh this is actually a red flag. Yeah. So those are definitely a couple experiences that like stick out for me and Sure. Unfortunately it and can be very commonplace with a lot of people within our industry. Yeah. So it’s, yeah.

And I’m not saying that to scare anyone, but it’s just unfortunately the reality that can happen to some people. So yes, it’s really, really important to be communicative, have those boundaries set, know what your limits are. Right. When it comes to photography and stuff too, or videography, ask me for references, ask the referrals. Right. So all the stuff is super, super key information that I wish I had known or I wish that I had better prepared myself.

Right. But again, I’m taking them as big learnings, learning lessons, you know, to, to watch out for. And now with red flags as I proceed in the industry.

Speaker 1 (25m 59s): Yeah. It’s, I’m sure it’s not easy to be a beautiful woman in any way, sense or form. Having been raised by a woman, I’m a bit of a feminist more than a bit. And this kinda, when I hear, when I hear stuff like this, it really pisses me off. Okay. Yeah. So I’m sorry to hear that. Tell us about your podcast strip. I see it. And how did you get this started?

Speaker 2 (26m 27s): Yeah, well gosh, I mean by this time now it’s been almost three years since I started the show. Wow. And yeah. Which is crazy to me. And that’s been like consecutively every single week have not really taken a break at all. But it’s been fun. And basically that started back in 2019 summer, in the summer when I was working at the club and one of my regulars there kind of just made a statement and was like, Oh yeah, strippers are really cool.

People, like a lot of you guys are just like, you know, are influencers and you have 10,000 of followers and you all lead such interesting lives outta the club. And I was like, yeah. Like we do. That’s really interesting that, yeah. You hit it right on the head like that is correct. And then, Yep. I, I already knew that I wanted to do a podcast cuz I’m a big like avid podcast listener. I’m kind of a nerd like that but that

Speaker 1 (27m 26s): Makes, that makes one of, that makes one of us. But go ahead.

Speaker 2 (27m 31s): Yeah. So I was like, oh well this is really interesting and I have a lot of people and friends in the industry and I’m gonna do a show on this. And then two weeks later the first episode came out. Yeah. I guess the rest of his, the rest is history.

Speaker 1 (27m 44s): It’s awesome. You got me, you got me by you got me by a year. I’ve done a little, little over two years now. Wow. So who have been your most memorable guest so far?

Speaker 2 (27m 55s): Oh my gosh, there’s been so many. Bruce. I’ve done over 150 episodes now. So hard to choose. But there’s definitely people that have come to mind and really just depends on the topic as well. But Dr. Raven Bowen, she is the CEO of National Ugly Mugs, which is like a non-profit organization based in the UK that helps benefit sex workers.

And we did a really cool episode on work balance and duality. So much like myself, as I mentioned earlier, I, I balance sex work out with some vanilla or civilian work. So it was really cool to have that conversation and just talk about the research she’s done in the field and just to know that I’m not alone in this. Right. Right. Because I know a lot of people, they can look down at people that have civilian jobs too and like, Oh you’re not doing this full time.

That means they’re not really taking this seriously. Hmm. And that is not really the case for anyone. Sure. Or for other people. So. Sure. Yeah. Doctor Ring Bone was definitely one of my favorite people that I’ve interviewed. I’ve also interviewed and yeah, there’s just a few here but like some sex trafficking survivors. So my Romero that I actually, that you might have met during the Why not reunion, she was there, She had a really, really compelling story on her experience when it came to sex trafficking.

I thought that was really powerful cause it’s like how often do you ever get to hear from sex trafficking survivors? So I thought that was really awesome. Another friend of mine, Brent Ray Fraser who is an artist out here in, in Vancouver and he does art with his penis, which is really interesting and he’s, yeah it sounds really funny and a little bit odd but like again I have a range of people on my show but he, that has taken him very, very far.

Speaker 1 (30m 16s): I’d say I’d like to see that but I really don’t.

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): Maybe I’ll send you something later. Interesting. But yeah, those are just a, a few to name but there’s just been so many great people. I mean I recently interviewed with Cindy Starfall who is an amazing adult. Adult actress and cool too because it just, I always feel connected with those who are of Asian descent. Cause sometimes it’s really hard to find people like us in the industry.

Was really cool to hear her experience and like how she came to be and just, you know, agreeing with so much of the conservativeness that comes along with being Asian and doing sex work and the pushback that we can get and the cultural pushback too and religious. So from all different sides. But yeah, that was such a fun and interesting conversation.

Speaker 1 (31m 20s): I live in Thailand, I know a lot about the, the whole thing so

Speaker 2 (31m 24s): Yeah. Yeah. A lot. A lot for sure.

Speaker 1 (31m 30s): So what are some highlights in your life that sex work has brought you?

Speaker 2 (31m 36s): Yeah, and that’s such a great question. There’s been a lot of great things have that have definitely come from sex work for sure. So I’ve gotten the opportunity recurring opportunities to guest lecture at a couple different universities in the United States and also my alma mater seventh grade university. So that’s been really freaking cool.

Speaker 1 (31m 57s): Cool. That must nice.

Speaker 2 (32m 0s): It’s been so nice cause I actually studied criminology back in the day. That was, that was what I majored in and it was really cool just to, yeah. And to come back to be invited to speak in their upper level criminology classes really was like, wow, this has come full circle for me. So that’s been really quite the honor. So, So

Speaker 1 (32m 23s): When guys, so when you tell guys that you studied criminology, did they tell you that it’s that it’s okay if you put cuffs on them?

Speaker 2 (32m 30s): I get that all the time. Or you say

Speaker 1 (32m 33s): Oh well it wasn’t, it wasn’t original. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (32m 38s): I mean yeah, that’s been a really, really cool experience or experiences have happened. I also have invited to speak and facilitate at some sex work festivals in Asia. So that’s been really, really cool. I’ve also gotten the opportunity to also work with United Nations women Wow. Research. Yeah. Through sex work. So that’s been really cool cuz I was able to help conduct research and conduct some focus groups with youth sex workers from around the world.


Speaker 1 (33m 15s): Awesome.

Speaker 2 (33m 16s): Yeah, so it’s really create a lot of opportunities. I mean I’ve had like the CBC contact me for interviews or like, you know, ask me for comments and stuff. I just think all of those experiences have been just so cool and so wild to me. And just like never in my wildest dreams when I’ve thought like by starting the show I would’ve gone in these kind of really unique opportunities. Right. So yeah, I just feel incredibly blessed and just like full of gratitude to be awarded with these really rare and cool opportunities.

It’s been

Speaker 1 (33m 52s): Awesome. Yeah. Well next time you come out to to Asia to speak you’ll have to swing by.

Speaker 2 (33m 57s): Absolutely. I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34m 1s): Yeah. We, we got some pretty nice digs out here. It’s blast. What’s the best advice you can give someone who’s considering entering into sex work?

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): Mm. Yeah. This is a really, really common question for sure. For all newbies that are out there. But yeah, for me it’s, it’s a couple things. Definitely do your research there. There’s so much out there and akin to what we were saying earlier too with like the of blogs, the different Facebook groups and Reddit and forums and, and podcasts show on this show. Like there’s so many resources out there that are free and that are accessible to you.

So it’s really important to do that research and also to ask questions for, for those who are in the industry and a lot of us you just ask on Twitter or ask Instagram and we’d be happy to answer the questions. Sure. I mean, looking back at my time being a sugar baby, like it was so hush hush back, back in the day and that was like nine years ago. Yeah. And the fact that there weren’t a lot of resources for me to look and read into.

I mean it’s definitely come a long way now. Like and that and a sugar baby. Sure. Being a sugar baby. So like commonplace right. Nowadays as well. But yeah, definitely do your research on in regards to like what kind of avenue and sex work that you wanna go down to. And also, I talked about boundaries earlier, but I think it’s really important to kind of establish your boundaries and, and know what those are. And you know, it’s, it’s okay to say no you don’t have to do everything

Speaker 1 (35m 48s): Big time. Big time,

Speaker 2 (35m 50s): Big time. You know. And I feel like a lot of people feel like they have to offer everything and do everything under the sun in order to make in this industry. And I really think it’s the opposite. I feel like you agreed be more niche.

Speaker 1 (36m 4s): Absolutely. If there’s something you’re not comfortable with doing, say no.

Speaker 2 (36m 8s): Yeah. You’re absolutely allowed to say no, that’s okay. I

Speaker 1 (36m 13s): Think the whole me too era has, has really reinforced that.

Speaker 2 (36m 18s): Oh for sure. I think that has, Yeah, absolutely. Like its really made a stronger case for us because you know, we don’t have to do everything that’s out there. You have a choice, you have a voice, Right. Use it.

Speaker 1 (36m 33s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (36m 34s): Yeah. Those are like my words of advice writing anyone that is new coming into this. And also, I guess last piece of advice too is actually treat it like work

Speaker 1 (36m 45s): Big

Speaker 2 (36m 46s): Time. Treat it like your business that is so important. If you’re gonna keep treating it as like a side gig or a side hustle or whatever, I don’t think you’re gonna take it seriously. And I don’t think your clients will also take it seriously either. So.

Speaker 1 (37m 3s): And you won’t succeed.

Speaker 2 (37m 5s): And you won’t succeed. Exactly. So yeah, just know that it’s real work. Cause there’s too many times I’ve had these questions been asked to me and they just wanna do it for fun or whatnot, I’m just like, but you know, it’s work. Right? Like, you know, it’s sex work. Right? Yep. So I just really wanna like drive that point down to the ground cause it’s really, really important.

Speaker 1 (37m 27s): It’s really funny. You were talking about nine years ago and then in the same sentence you said back in the day, you have no idea how old that makes me feel. Okay. So what’s your take on pole dance hobbyists and leisure dancers?

Speaker 2 (37m 46s): Oh yeah, That’s like a big topic of big too big, big topic. And as a, as a person who is part of both worlds as an instructor and also as a stripper. Yeah. There’s a huge debate between both because I mean, for the past couple years it’s been like a whole hashtag not a stripper hashtag going around. Yeah. That being a thing for the past like probably three years now that’s been going too many

Speaker 1 (38m 13s): Hashtags. Too many hashtags. So lord, anyway.

Speaker 2 (38m 17s): No and it’s just, it’s just bad because it just really taps into that hierarchy in terms of like, I’m separating myself and othering strippers. Yeah. And you know, I’m separating, I’m not one of those people. I’m not a stripper. Sounds

Speaker 1 (38m 33s): Like a form of bias really.

Speaker 2 (38m 35s): Totally. And it’s completely problematic. And the fact that so many people, like even studio owners are still like behind this. Right. It’s not healthy. And they should know that pole dancing and pole hobbyists and pole sport all originated from the strip club.

Speaker 1 (38m 56s): Hello. And

Speaker 2 (38m 58s): Yeah. Hello. I mean like it’s not rocket science.

Speaker 1 (39m 1s): Yeah. These, these polls didn’t just come down from outer space with no reason.

Speaker 2 (39m 8s): They just didn’t erect themselves like that. Like Well and

Speaker 1 (39m 11s): Well, Well and don’t you think that a lot of the casual pole dancing has to do with these women fantasizing about being a stripper?

Speaker 2 (39m 25s): Oh my gosh. And that’s a huge part of it too. And that even boils down to like some of the aesthetic, like the stripper aesthetic that they wanna try to adopt. The whole clear shoe, clear heel trend that’s going on in mainstream fashion is also can be contributed to stripper aesthetic. So there’s a lot there and I just feel like, and I could really go into this, but like, we’ll just keep it really light. I think it’s really important that people that are not part of our industry, so the adult industry or the strip industry, to really think about what these, what their origins of their favorite sport could come from.

And also I also think it’s like a responsibility to, you know, let students know like this is where it originates from. This is why we have exotic dance classes or exotic dance inspired classes and you know, they owe us a lot so. Right. I feel like we’re having a time right now and I feel like a lot of people have opinions on this and as do I. And I really just feel like people need to understand that this kind of behavior and these kind of hashtags are not helping us at all.

Right. It’s just the opposite. So. Sure.

Speaker 1 (40m 43s): So have you ever experienced, and I think you did slightly allude to this racism or fetishization within the industry?

Speaker 2 (40m 52s): Oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. As an Asian Canadian woman for sure. And not even within this industry, but just in general, just being catcalled and walking down the street and someone says like UA or whatever, or people like ask me in the club and outside the club they’re like, Oh like are you Filipino? And I’m just like, why are you asking me that? And then they of course are trying their best to relate to me or find some kind of bonding connection like, oh you said data philippina and blah blah blah and proceeded telling you about your dating life.

And I was was like, Yeah. It’s

Speaker 1 (41m 35s): Very, actually I’ll be honest, I’m guilty sometimes of asking Asian Asians their nationality cuz I’m kind of curious if they’re Thai or, or what. And I, I usually am a pretty good judge of who’s what. But anyway I Yeah. Guilty of that and, And there’s no malice involved. I’m just kind of curious.

Speaker 2 (41m 55s): Yeah. Yeah. I think like with curiosity I think it’s totally fine. But I know like with some of the clientele that come to the club, like I know what they’re alluding to and like, oh Filipinos are so hard working and blah blah blah and then just, just keep going and reinforcing this stereotype and it’s

Speaker 1 (42m 12s): Just big time. It’s

Speaker 2 (42m 13s): Just uncomfortable. Yeah. I don’t like it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42m 17s): Yeah. While living out here, the stereotypes are all gone. So I mean that if I ever had those, which I probably did when I lived in the States, they’re gone now and, but I can only imagine. And let’s face it, there’s a lot of guys that fantasize about Asian women, which I’m sure is great for your business, but it also can be harmful.

Speaker 2 (42m 45s): Oh absolutely. Yeah. I’ve definitely gotten some like strange re well what I consider a strange request kind of going more into like race play, which is something I don’t offer just cause I think it’s dangerous to kinda play with those lines cause it’s a really, really fine line when it comes to race play. And that’s just something I just don’t entertain. I just feel like it’s encouraging more of defending those stereotypes types and Yes. And fe, which is not so fun for those who are on this side big time of that line.

Yeah. So I, yeah, for me it’s a hard pass on that

Speaker 1 (43m 26s): I can only imagine hanging there. Mm. So, So do you ever think about leaving the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (43m 33s): Not very often, which is really nice. I don’t think I’ve ever thought about leaving. I think like the one time I maybe thought about leaving or ending at least a portion of this part of the industry was actually was stripping. And that’s when the pandemic happened because everything shut down was strip clubs. Like I didn’t dance for almost basically in over a year actually. Yes. I didn’t dance for a year and I was like, well I guess strip clubs are gonna close down. This is gonna be the end of things and I don’t know if I’ll ever dance again.

It’s time to hang off my heels. And that did not happen thankfully. And actually I’m dancing more and more now post pandemic, even though we’re still in the pandemic, but dancing more now. So I thought that at one point, like that might have been my end. And also like I’m looking towards the future. I feel like maybe when I’m pregnant I probably won’t be doing much in this industry.

Or maybe after I have kids or like young toddlers, I don’t think I’d be doing anything. I just don’t think I’m gonna have energy and I’m gonna, I’m wanting to, you know, doing all

Speaker 1 (44m 48s): Those things. I, they tend to that energy.

Speaker 2 (44m 51s): Yes. Like, I mean realistically, realistically speaking, I just don’t think I’ll be doing that at that point. So, but who knows that, that’s still quite a few years away, so we’ll see. I’ll, I’ll get back to you when it happens if that happens there.

Speaker 1 (45m 5s): There you go. Do you have any regrets about being in the industry?

Speaker 2 (45m 11s): Nothing huge about like actual regrets. Like in general, I don’t find that I regret anything. There are things maybe that I wish I could have done a bit differently. Sure. Or maybe I’ve done better. And that’s just, again, just knowing myself. But however, at that point in my life I, I was just not solidified in who I was and I just didn’t know what I valued what again, what those boundaries and stuff were at those points in my life.

So that to me, I guess would be the closest thing to regret things in this industry. I wish I could have started earlier a little bit. I feel like I was a little later to the game, but at the same time I still feel like I was really naive when I entered the industry, but I kind of wish I, I kind wish I got involved with porn earlier or at least given that like a try. Cause I’ve, I’ve had, I just know so many people in the industry and it feels like that’s something I would’ve like definitely would’ve loved to try to do at some point being an exhibitionist.

So like I feel like that would’ve been a really, really interesting experience. But yeah, I think those are like my only things that I might might’ve regretted. But

Speaker 1 (46m 30s): Yeah, so being an exhibitionist is probably a good prerequisite for this position. So along with that, what do you think needs to be changed to make the industry better for performers?

Speaker 2 (46m 45s): Ooh. Yeah. I feel we need to get rid of the hierarchy. So I kind of mentioned that term earlier, but basically for those listeners who don’t know what the hierarchy is or for those who just was like, what is that term? It’s basically like a hierarchy within the sex industry or sex workers. And there’s different, there’s different kinds of hierarchies, but for example, non contact, that’s

Speaker 1 (47m 11s): Hierarchy. Kinda like hierarchy.

Speaker 2 (47m 14s): Yes, exactly. Words. I like that. Wish I coined. I did not coin, but

Speaker 1 (47m 23s): Patented

Speaker 2 (47m 25s): Would’ve, Sex work is viewed at the top. So basically some people might see this as camgirl or some people might see this as, I don’t know, do at the top and then it kind of goes down the pyramid. So maybe strippers might be next. And then you might have like indoor sex work and then like outdoor sex work at the bottom. And I think a lot of people really do adopt that model.

I’m not sure if that’s subconsciously or consciously, but it is really dangerous and it just puts others at risk by making certain comments like that or assumptions like that. And also it just, it’s just not healthy and I feel like the whole world already hates sex workers. So why do we continue to allow this hate to be within, like internally in our community? I really feel like that is something that needs to change.

And there’s still so many people that believe in that kinda stuff and it’s really not. And in the end we’re all hoes. So

Speaker 1 (48m 39s): I know I’m

Speaker 2 (48m 44s): Like, yeah, that definitely needs to change. Hopefully at some point I would love to see. That

Speaker 1 (48m 50s): Makes sense. So, so how can people find you?

Speaker 2 (48m 54s): Oh yeah, we’re, we’re at that time. Yes. So it’s, my podcast is stripped by C and you can find that on any major podcast platform. It’s, it’s out there. You can stream online, you can stream wherever, rate and like five stars if you’re interested in that. And then again, if you are interested in hearing and seeing some of the video exclusive on that, you can go pee my Patreon, which is patreon.com/stripped by cia.

And if you do wanna get in contact with me, Twitter is the best place to do that. And it’s stripped by CIA on Twitter. We have stripped by CIA on Instagram as well. Basically stripped by CIA everywhere. So I’ll make that nice and easy. And I am working on my website revamping that at the moment, which will be stripped by.com.

Speaker 1 (49m 45s): So. So just for everyone out there, it’s stripped by s i a is how C is spelled. Okay. Well Steph, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult site broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (50m 1s): Absolutely. Thank you again, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (50m 3s): It was a pleasure. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about making a good offer and how to structure your site. Next, keep your website design up to date, do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date. Times change. So should your website, look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like.

Emulate success. If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying to copy it, I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit. You’ve gotta keep up with the times or you’re gonna end up being left behind. Also, keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more. Don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good and your competitive. The same goes for your content.

Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t? Check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet the competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all of your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’ll lose customers. People are not patient these days. People’s attention spans are like that of a nat.

They’ll click out immediately and go onto the next result in Google if they don’t find what they’re looking for or if the site is hard to navigate or things just don’t work. Check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Krystel Penn of Grooby. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Steph Sia. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Karl Edwards of Stiff Media.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts! That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to present a one of a kind, unique and legendary site. It’s a pro amateur ethnic reality site. Founded in 2005, members never know what to expect With a variety of different performers. From brand new amateur talents to famous porn stars, the site continues to grow and expand with no major competitors in this niche.

What makes it unique is their 100% original content that has uncensored and unscripted scenes. They’re video trailers or short web episodes that engage the viewers and are immensely popular online. Almost all the traffic is organic with some affiliate traffic. The site gets about 20 joins and 40 rebuilds a day. This iconic site is available for only $1.4 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Carl Edwards of Stiff Media.

Carl, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 27s): It’s my pleasure, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (2m 28s): It’s a pleasure to have you Now, Carl is one.

Speaker 2 (2m 30s): Yes, it is. Thank you for noticing.

Speaker 1 (2m 33s): Carl is one of the true pioneers of the gay adult internet market from his early days as the owner and operator of bedfellow.com to you love jack.com and foot woody.com and his most recent venture xxx edit.com. He’s been on the forefront of technology and real brand marketing. He shoots and edits his own content, manages his own affiliate programs and codes and designs each of his sites from scratch. This hands on approach keeps him in direct touch with his market and helps him stay one step ahead of the competition.

Recently he was vice president of L G B T Q I A plus products at Doppler. The company behind Live Jasmine now, he started Stiff Media, the first video editing and post production company designed exclusively for the adult entertainment industry. So, Carl, besides my brief description, what is Stiff Media?

Speaker 2 (3m 27s): Well, first of all, I’ve done a lot. I should hire me qualifications.

Speaker 1 (3m 33s): I would definitely recommend you Carl.

Speaker 2 (3m 36s): Well, listen, Stiff Media, this is an extension of Triple X edit, but it’s more of a full service bureau. So basically we’re video editing and post production service for the adult industry in particular. My clients range in size anywhere from huge studios like Falcon and Raging Stallion to individual content producers who might have their own fan sites. Basically anything that happens after they turn off the camera and before the content is presented to their members, that’s where I

Speaker 1 (4m 2s): Step in. I would imagine in this day and age, post-production requires a pretty good amount of software.

Speaker 2 (4m 9s): Yeah. Oh God. Well it’s not a, you know, it’s funny, it’s become simplified really. Yeah, there, there’s basically, there’s like the big three packages that people might use. It depends what you’re doing, right? There’s, there’s your Adobe Suite, you’ve got your Premier Pro and your After Effects, which is sort of an industry standard, but there’s a whole fringe group now like me that are using DaVinci Resolve. There’s options out there. So the, the real big thing is just staying on top of the hardware and the software and keeping it all balanced so that you never have any downtime.

You can’t have an update come in and shut you down for a week while, you know, some software company works out their problems cuz they had to roll out an update to you.

Speaker 1 (4m 49s): Yeah. And what’s the advantage in your mind of DaVinci

Speaker 2 (4m 53s): DaVinci right off the bat? It’s free. So if you think that’s a good advantage. Yeah, but it’s, well there’s two versions. There’s a free version, which is the full suite, not limited in any way. And then the, the full product that you pay, I think a couple hundred bucks for that adds a few extra special effects and a few extra codex. But you anyone could just download the, the software and be editing video in no time flat. Sure. So, you know, the, the fact that you don’t have to pay a monthly fee is great, especially for smaller studios that don’t have the ability to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month for software and the, the quality is banging on.

It’s pretty much what all the Hollywood studios are using for all their work now.

Speaker 1 (5m 33s): Interesting. I I would imagine then it’s more of an identity issue with them that people don’t know them as opposed to the quality of it. Cuz it sounds like, I mean, I know how expensive Adobe products are, although I’ve never priced that particular one. I would imagine that people should be using this.

Speaker 2 (5m 53s): Yeah, well, you know what it was is Resolve and, and DaVinci used to be only for color correction and it became the industry standard for all Hollywood productions or anyone who’s doing color grading or color production. So, you know, when you see like a Transformer movie and it looks orange and teal, they create that effect in Vinci Resolve. And what’s happened is Black Magic Design, the company who bought the software has slowly been building it out into a full-fledged editing suite that has its own special effects program and has its own audio editing program, everything in one package.

And they’ve honed the product. It’s at version 18 now. They’ve honed it to the point where there’s really no reason to use anything else. It’s good enough and even beyond good enough. It’s so good that it’s my first choice.

Speaker 1 (6m 38s): Yeah, I noticed you didn’t mention Final Cut Pro.

Speaker 2 (6m 41s): Well that’s because you’re just gonna get in trouble if you mention Final Cut Pro, you can’t win, right? What do you mean? Well, Apple changed Final Cut Pro when they went to version 10, they changed the entire paradigm and basically what Apple said was, listen editors, like traditional film editors aren’t our market anymore. Our market is content creators. Interesting. So they, they redesigned the entire paradigm of the editing experience within Final Cup Pro to appeal to people who don’t have traditional film editing experience.

Interesting. And the entire editor market just basically said, forget it. And then there was, it was buggy and there was all kinds of problems and it took four or five years for them to catch up and now it’s actually working so well that a lot of people really use it. But you’re paying the Apple tax for all the hardware. Yeah. And you know, you’re paying like 1.60 yeah. 1.6, 1.7 times as much Yeah. To get the same kind of performance. So, you know, it’s, I, I’m Agnos, I’m I’m platform agnostic. I’m bi computer. I can, I can work in anything that you put in front of me.

Sure. But my preference is to work on a PC and my, and, and my preference is to work and resolve cuz it’s just so stable.

Speaker 1 (7m 50s): That’s interesting. A lot of people prefer, in fact, I think most people who do that kind of work, don’t they prefer Max?

Speaker 2 (7m 57s): You know, I think, so I started out my career on a Mac up until five years ago. I was Macintosh everything. And I, I still have iPhones and everything. You can’t really get away from those. But once it became clear that all of my clients, you know, five years ago, all my clients wanted me to be on Premier Pro and not Final Cut and final cut. Oddly little, little side note here, it’s like 20% faster to edit and final cut than from year or resolve. But nobody wants to use it because it’s got such a bad reputation.

So I have to go with what my clients want. So once I realized that I didn’t have to be locked into the Mac platform, then I was free to sort of build a super editing station and just work on the whatever software was needed for whatever job I was working on.

Speaker 1 (8m 41s): Yeah. But for their purposes, I’m sure going to creators is probably gonna make them a lot more money.

Speaker 2 (8m 47s): It’s really worked out great for them. Like basically all the people on YouTube that are just making these 10 minute videos, they’re all on Final Cut and it’s, and there’s a whole community that’s built up around it. Again, it’s just a different beast though.

Speaker 1 (9m 0s): Yeah. Well, Apple didn’t become the largest company in the world by being stupid. Now, did they?

Speaker 2 (9m 6s): Well, you know what, I guess, I guess you really can’t argue with that.

Speaker 1 (9m 14s): So you said, although they’re very frustrating at times, being someone who’s locked into the Apple ecosystem, Mac, iPad, iPhone, Apple tv. I got it all baby.

Speaker 2 (9m 26s): But the, everyone complains about Apple and they say, Oh, you’re just, you’re locked into their system. You have to do everything their way if you’re on a Mac. Yeah. Have you used a Windows PC lately? It’s exactly the same way. Sure. Try and get rid of Microsoft OneDrive. You just can’t. It’s built into everything. There’s no way to, like, everyone does that and Mac gets an unfair wrap. Yeah, I agree. Because they have this, this luxury brand identity, which I don’t think they deserve that, You know, if you’re, if you’re building stuff like, you know, Mac Pros that are 50, $60,000, but you look at the components, it’s expensive, but it’s not overpriced.

It’s just what that stuff costs. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10m 3s): Yeah. Absolutely. So now you said that Stiff Media is a video editing and post production service that specializes in the adult industry. Now I know what editing is, but editing, I should’ve said editing instead of a, it’s early in the morning here, but what’s post production exactly. Give me some, you know, gimme the details

Speaker 2 (10m 28s): There. Yeah. Well, but it’s pretty easy. Post production is, is really anything that needs to be done to video content after the cameras are turned off and they, and it actually includes editing, but I separate the term out editing. Cause I don’t know if everyone, if my audience knows what post production means. So video editing people know, but, you know, if you wanna gang it all together, it would be color correction, resizing reframing for social media, special effects, compositing, anything that you do to put the finishing touches on a video. It basically, post production means when the production is stopped and you have to prep the, the video content for display.

That’s where I step in.

Speaker 1 (11m 6s): Hmm. How long does it usually take to do post production on a scene?

Speaker 2 (11m 10s): Oh, you know, I can only tell you, this is like an interview question, right. I’m interviewing for a job and they’re like, What makes you the right candidate? I need more information. Like every scene is different. Yeah. And every producer is different, but typically it takes me about three times as long as the amount of footage that I’m given. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): So if somebody shoots, it kind of reminds me, it kind of reminds me of editing this interview. This is gonna take me two or three times the amount of time that we did the interview.

Speaker 2 (11m 42s): Cause you have to do it in real time. Yes. And if somebody gives me three hours of footage and there’s two cameras that’s six hours of footage. Yep. It starts adding up. So by the time you synchronize everything and, and get all the, get all the cameras switching back and forth, you know, it takes, it takes a few hours to pull it together. But I have an advantage that I’ve been doing this a long time, so I’m fast. Like I, I don’t waste any time. So it’s not, it’s not like I’m, I’m sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for stuff to render. But realistically, you know, if you’re, if you’re coming for, if you’re coming to do a video job with me and you’ve got two hours of footage you can count on the edit taking about six hours to complete.

Speaker 1 (12m 17s): Wow. That’s a long time. And are you doing mainstream as well?

Speaker 2 (12m 22s): Yes, I am. But not through the Stiff Media brand. Sure. There’s another brand, Kes Media, which is basically, you know, the non-adult version of Stiff Media. Kess, of course, standing for Carl Edwards a superstar. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (12m 36s): Oh yeah, I, I would’ve assumed that. So you mentioned, what the hell’s he talking about? So I was thinking

Speaker 2 (12m 45s): About that. You know, it’s a funny story cuz when I got, I, I studied photography in university and when I got her to school, I went to the business office here in Toronto to get my, to set up a company. And the lady behind the counter said, Well, you’ll need a name. And I’m like, why did I did, I wasn’t prepared, What should I do? And she said, It should be your name separated by a comma with what you do. So on the spot I came up with Carl Edwards comma a superstar. I love it. I thought I was so smart. And then I would go to art directors with my portfolio and give them the card. This says Karl Superstar.

And they would tear up my business card and slip it back in the portfolio and hand it back to me on like, without looking at it. I was like, Oh, Jesus. So I had to shorten it to Kees just to soften the blow of my own.

Speaker 1 (13m 29s): That’s hilarious.

Speaker 2 (13m 30s): Lunacy. Yeah. I know. It’s just so stupid. That’s what you get when you’re 20 years old, right?

Speaker 1 (13m 34s): Oh yes. We all make our mistakes. We all make our mistakes. So now you mentioned special effects. What exactly does that involve and how does it relate to adult?

Speaker 2 (13m 45s): To be honest, I’ve done productions that require explosions and laser beams. That’s part of it. Yeah. But, you know, practical terms, special effects could simply mean motion tracking and blurring someone’s face or taking a tattoo or, or pixelating a tattoo. It could be replacing a phone or computer screen to match the story that’s being presented in the video. Sure. Maybe removing the shadow of a drone on a long establishing shot or turning day to day. There’s a ton of things that fall under special effects. It’s more than just blowing fun things up. But I’ll, I’ll put explosions in anything you want.

Don’t you worry.

Speaker 1 (14m 18s): Well, you can put an explosion in this podcast.

Speaker 2 (14m 22s): Well, you know what, we’ll have to talk, we’ll have to talk about my rates.

Speaker 1 (14m 29s): So how many people do what you do exclusive to the adult industry? I, I mean, I’ve come across other editors, but I don’t get the impression there’s a lot.

Speaker 2 (14m 41s): No. And I’ve come across other editors too. And, and a lot of studios have their in-house editors. You know, if you’re knocking on doors being like, Hey, I’m from Stiff Media, I do editing, blah, blah, blah. The first thing anyone’s ever gonna say is, Oh, we already have an editor. Yep. Like, like, you know it, like you’re trying to come up with the next great idea for a gadget to sell on tv. And someone’s like, Oh, it’s called a fork. I already have one. You the what you, But you know, they’re out there. But in terms of full service bureaus, like Stiff Media, I believe I’m the only one.

Wow. That’s actually marketing my services on a wide scale to the adult industry. I’ve come across a couple of individuals that are sort of freelancing, but in terms of like the full kit and caboodle that I’m doing with the top to bottom post production services, I think Stiff Media is it right now. Good.

Speaker 1 (15m 31s): Okay. So how long have you been an editor and how would you rate your talent as one from when you got started to today?

Speaker 2 (15m 40s): Oh, well I’ve been doing this, I mean, I used to edit all my own content back in the bedfellow days when, you know, when it was impossible to even capture digital video. So I, I’ve been doing editing myself for 30 years, my own mainstream products. I I’ve been doing it for 20 plus years. Right. And you know, I think being an editor is a funny thing, Bruce. It’s not like, it’s not knowing how to use a program. Anyone could learn how to use a program. Sure. But there’s skills involved in editing that involve the control of timing and pace and, and creating a sense of energy and, and helping a story be portrayed in the, in the right way that is difficult to learn.

And I’ve kind of had the knack of that for well over 10 years now. Yeah. So I would say, I would say in terms of editing, I’m at the top of my game. Whatever anyone gives gives me, I can actually, you know, editing is funny. It’s, it’s a problem solving game. It, it’s basically, you never have the footage that you need to tell the story correctly. Yeah. So it’s all about reasoning your way through the stuff that you do have and making it look like you had everything that you were supposed to have from the start. And it could be super frustrating, but when it actually works out, it’s like doing the hard Sudoku and on the New York Times, you’re like, Oh wow, I actually did that.

That’s a, I feel really good about myself.

Speaker 1 (16m 59s): Yeah. I would imagine the, there’s a discrepancy between quality of shooting between different clients.

Speaker 2 (17m 9s): Oh yeah. It’s funny, I always say that, that no one should be allowed to shoot anything until they’ve edited content for at least two years. That’s a good point because you, there’s a saying in the industry of shooting for the edit and it’s giving your editor enough tools so that he can hide the mistakes, number one. But number two, actually convey the story in the way that you want it to. And I think a lot of producers get hung up in not understanding how the editing process works and then they try to shoot everything at once.

Yeah. So, you know, they might be doing a closeup of whatever glistening insertion happens to be going on and then think, Oh, I’m going to, I’m gonna pan my camera up and get a picture of their face now. And then halfway up to the face, something happens in the down there area so they whip the camera back and it’s just this whole frenetic thing where, you know, you could just have two cameras running and not really have to worry about that. And if you understood the editing process, you’d know that your editor can actually cover your movement and if something important happens, you’ll still have it. Yeah. That there’s no need to panic that you can just relax and let the story be told, let the actual action speak for itself rather than some overt camera movement that you think adds a stylish flare.

Yeah. It usually just gets in the way. So I, I think that that’s just, you know, that’s me as an editor, if you talk to any editor in the world, they’ll all have the exact same complaint. No one shoots the right way, no one gives me the right footage. All I have to do is fix mistakes. Right.

Speaker 1 (18m 37s): Well, yeah, I mean, you’re there to cover their mistakes.

Speaker 2 (18m 41s): Yeah, absolutely. And not get credit for it.

Speaker 1 (18m 44s): Of course.

Speaker 2 (18m 45s): That’s the funny part. If I do my job properly, the producers will never know that I did my job properly. Yeah. And that’s, you know, that’s why you have to have an ego like, I have to get through

Speaker 1 (18m 57s): This. Exactly. Well it’s like a, it’s like a, an umpire or a referee in a, a sporting event. Yeah. If you don’t notice them, they’re probably doing their job well.

Speaker 2 (19m 8s): Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s funny cuz you see, you know, you see the Oscars in the best editing category and it’s kind of like, I I’m sure every g every editor in the world just laughs at that because if, if you do your job properly, no one should notice it. Sure. It should be nothing to get an award for. Right.

Speaker 1 (19m 27s): Oh, you make a point. Definitely make a point. So you’ve run websites and shot your own content for the past 20 years or so. What is it about editing that interests you?

Speaker 2 (19m 39s): You know, it’s, Do you want the joke answer or the, the real answer? Yeah,

Speaker 1 (19m 44s): Both would be, both would be great. Cuz I love your joke. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (19m 47s): Well, the, the joke answer is, you know, with editing I get to sit in the dark and nobody bugs me. Just sit here. You,

Speaker 1 (19m 53s): You know, you said something like that off mic.

Speaker 2 (19m 56s): It’s true. I did. Well, you know, you know, I’m really telling you. So

Speaker 1 (19m 59s): Maybe, so maybe it’s not a joke.

Speaker 2 (20m 1s): It’s not a joke. It’s not a joke. I, I make decisions that affect other people’s lives. Right. I just think it’s all fine alone

Speaker 1 (20m 7s): And in the dark

Speaker 2 (20m 9s): Alone. And in the dark. And I’m not touching anything, including myself. There you go. But the reality is there, it, it’s, you know, there’s, there’s creative potential in problem solving. And, and i, I I, I ca I have to keep harping harkening back to that. It’s re you really get a charge out of fixing a scene and getting a scene together properly and having it be complete and good. There’s a sense of satisfaction that’s really hard to describe. I, I’m working with computers, I’m working in a creative visual field.

Right. I’m also interfacing with a lot of, you know, smaller producers now. Yes. And helping them with their production process and consulting with them and helping them make the scenes even better. And, you know, it, it feels like I’m, it’s weird cause I’m doing porn, I’m editing porn. Right. But it feels like I’m contributing to society in some way. Like I’m actually helping the world come together in some very, very small way. So

Speaker 1 (21m 2s): Becomes, just smelled differently.

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Well you didn’t do that, did you?

Speaker 1 (21m 7s): I did. You

Speaker 2 (21m 7s): Did. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Had to go there.

Speaker 2 (21m 11s): What are we gonna do

Speaker 1 (21m 12s): With you? I don’t know. I’ve been, I’ve been corrupted in this industry for way too long. Carl. You wouldn’t be both right. You

Speaker 2 (21m 20s): Would be both. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (21m 23s): So who’s your target audience? Studios or independent? I can say independent producers and why? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21m 31s): Well, you know, it’s a mix. I’ve got studio clients with big budgets and huge productions, but I’m seeing more and more individual producers as time goes on. I, I love the ability, I love the stability that a studio can bring. Like a, if a studio wants to send me four or five scenes a month and have me just do everything that’s great. More than happy to do that. But the individual producers, there’s more interesting things happening in that landscape. Mm. As everyone is sort of creatively expanding their own possibilities at the same time and they’re doing really progressive things and pushing the boundaries of the media and they’re people that you can work with.

Right. So, Sure. A big part of what I do, I’ve said this before, I do consulting on productions as well and, and letting these folks, letting these producers know all the little tricks that make all the difference that can really make, really make a scene shine, you know? That’s awesome. Yeah. So I, I really enjoy working with individual producers, but I’m not gonna ever turn down a studio job. Oh sure. Cuz you know, if you, it’s just a whole different ball of wax. So Sure. I’ll do it all. I’ll do it. Oh,

Speaker 1 (22m 39s): So I, you know, so I would think actually that that consulting can be very, very valuable to a company because it’s going to help them shoot so people like yourself can do a good job of editing.

Speaker 2 (22m 54s): Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it’s funny, like even little things like the 180 degree rule, right? In, in filmmaking there’s a rule that the camera shouldn’t cross the 180 degree line of your subjects. So if you have a, a subject on the left and a subject on the right, the subject on the left should always be on the left of the screen and the subject on the right should always be on the right. That’s also

Speaker 1 (23m 16s): Many times that’s also called reversing the vector. Right.

Speaker 2 (23m 19s): Reversing the vector. But it’s how many times you’ll see I went

Speaker 1 (23m 21s): To, I went to broadcasting school, Right.

Speaker 2 (23m 23s): You’ll see producers come around the opposite side with their, with their B cam and suddenly the person on the left’s on the right and it’s like, well there’s nothing I can do with that. So I end up flipping the screen, but then sometimes text is backwards and it’s just like the, like little things like that and, you know, you try and tell that to a larger studio, they’re like, Oh no, how to shoot. And I’m like, you’re right. Whatever you, however you wanna do it is fine. But if you say that to a smaller, smaller producer, like, Oh wait, I didn’t know that. That’s really great, Tell me more. And you can sort of create a dialogue with them and work with them to make the products better.

Like, I don’t think that I, I can’t take credit for what these people are doing cuz they’re on the front lines with their fingers in the mud. Figuratively. But, you know, I can give them my perspective as an editor and be like, Hey, here’s, you know, you’re, you’re doing a three cam shoot, but all three cameras are within six inches of each other and from the same angle, if you spread those out, then you’ll have a little bit more of an interesting thing. And they’re like, Oh wow, that’s interesting. Okay. And they come back and then the next scene is even better. And it’s just like, you know, there’s, it, it really feels great to, to collaborate with people on that level to help just make everything look better.

Speaker 1 (24m 31s): I would What, what percentage of your time are you spending consulting and what percentage are you spending on post production?

Speaker 2 (24m 38s): You know, it’s very, it’s very small. It depends on the clients. Right. I, I’m finding that the, the individual producers, like the independent producers, the fan site operators are very interested in hearing tips and things. But you know, it only takes me two seconds to say, Hey, spread your cameras out and do one medium, one wide and one close. It’s true. And I will edit them together. You don’t have to worry about every shot and that takes five seconds as opposed to the six hours it’s gonna take me to actually edit the footage. So it’s part, it’s just sort of an undercurrent to everything I do is, is giving feedback and talking to producers and understanding if they want my input or not.

Right. Sometimes guys

Speaker 1 (25m 16s): Yeah, of course

Speaker 2 (25m 17s): I say guys, people want to do it the way they’re doing it. So you have to respect that. Of course.

Speaker 1 (25m 23s): Yeah. And you gotta be careful because their egos are involved.

Speaker 2 (25m 26s): Yeah. Well wait till they get a load on me. Right.

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): So you just mentioned fan sites, that’s obviously the new reality in adult. How can you help content creators that run their own fan site?

Speaker 2 (25m 40s): Oh, well I’ll tell you number one, having a good at it and this fan site or, or even big students, but having a good editor frees the creators to do the important stuff, which is Right. Creating their content. Sure. And you know, I’m not a one and done kind of shop. I’m actually interested in working with these people and helping them make the best content they can. So Sure, there’s all of that as well. But you’ve this, it’s this whole thing about shooting for the edit. Just give your editor the right tools, get the job done. And that, that’s just a communication that you can have with the creators.

Right. But you know, it’s the collaborative input that I can offer. I wanna give them what they want. They have a vision of what they wanna see, but you know, they might not have the kind of visual vocabulary that I have as an editor Sure. To say, Hey, if you just tweak this this little way, this would look so good. Here’s an example of what I mean. And then suddenly they’re like, Oh yeah, actually now I do see what you mean. Do it that way. Right. Or they’re like, No, I hate you. Shut up and just do what I said. But either way. But you know, for me it’s, it’s the, the idea that there could be collaboration to make, make something bigger than either of us could have made on our own is, is the exciting part of working with those folks.

Speaker 1 (26m 48s): Sure. So why would someone outsource their video editing instead of just hiring someone to edit in house?

Speaker 2 (26m 56s): Are you talking about outsourcing video editing to just anyone or stiff media? Cause I mean, Well

Speaker 1 (27m 3s): I would, well I would hope you

Speaker 2 (27m 5s): Yeah, me too. Right. But I, I think it makes a sense on a lot of different levels. And number one just, and I said this before, just cuz someone knows how to use Premiere Pro or Da Vinci Resolve or Final Cut doesn’t make them a good editor. Correct. And I think people get hung up by, by putting someone in front of a computer in front of an editing program and saying, Hey, we’ve got an editor with Stiff Media, we are filled with very good editors and I’m at the top of that heap. I’m the person in charge of it all Right. So you’ve got award-winning editors working on your content and that says a lot. Sure.

But beyond just the talent of the people who are cutting the scenes, you know, it just doesn’t always make sense for studios or even in individual producers to maintain an editing suite in house. You know, there’s, there’s software and technology and you don’t wanna pay someone to be sitting in front of a computer while a scene renders. Right. We do all the heavy lifting so producers can just worry about the content and that’s kind of liberating on a lot of fronts. Right.

Speaker 1 (28m 1s): Yeah. I kinda liken it to what I do and brokering websites and also, you know, our marketing company, I’ve had companies tell me, Oh yeah, we have a marketing guy or we have a marketing gal. Yep. Okay. And if you dig deeper, you find out they just got outta college, they had a mar they have a marketing degree.

Speaker 2 (28m 21s): It’s funny cuz I get that same thing with, Oh, we already have an editor. Yeah. Right. The automatic response for any time you try to tell somebody about the service that you’re offering is to say, you, you’re not innovating because whatever you have, we already have it. Yeah. And I think that that’s just a knee jerk reaction that people have to protect themselves so that they don’t feel like they’re missing something by not already having the thing that you’re selling them. Right. Yeah. And you know, even for me, even if you have an in-house editor, like there’s still plenty of ways that I can help.

There’s, there’s production consultation, there’s all the special effects and the color grading stuff that I do that most editors don’t have any foggiest idea how to approach most in-house editors. Some do, there’s lots of people out there that do a great job at that. But you know, there’s a good chance that there’s lots that we can do anyways. And even if it’s, you know, there’s overflow, there’s times when a single editor in house can’t handle the volume of work that’s being produced. So it always helps to have a backup plan. And I’ll, I’ll take the backup role. I don’t care.

Speaker 1 (29m 22s): Yeah. That’s their money’s green. So let’s say

Speaker 2 (29m 27s): He says, he says looking at his, his Gavyn award,

Speaker 1 (29m 32s): So

Speaker 2 (29m 32s): I won an award. It’s like, it’s like the Oscars for gay porn.

Speaker 1 (29m 36s): Nice. You won that?

Speaker 2 (29m 38s): Yeah. Well, not really. I mean it’s a bit of a misnomer. One of the videos that I, I wanna grab a couple years ago for one of the videos I worked on, but one of the videos I worked on really closely Shehe UX was the director and I worked really closely with the, the guys who were shooting it and she, she to, we had to go in afterwards and film extra stuff and I felt really closely attached to it and it won best all sex feature. That’s great. Just before the pandemic. And it’s funny because I was at the, at the AVN slash Gian show while all this was going on and it was February of 2020 just before the pandemic.

Right. And we were all hearing about the pandemic and we’re walking around going, ah, it’s probably nothing. And then all of a sudden one of the guys, one of the camera guys on our team got sick and had to go home and we’re all like, Should we be getting Purell and wiping down everything?

Speaker 1 (30m 31s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): Suddenly we were like, well, and who knew? Like we’d all be on lockdown for three years,

Speaker 1 (30m 35s): Wipe down the world.

Speaker 2 (30m 37s): Oh my God. Remember, remember when that was going on? And and they, they convinced us that we just had to wash our hands and we’d be fine.

Speaker 1 (30m 44s): Yeah. That was a really scary time. I mean, I remember being in March in Tempe and I’m always down there or somewhere in Arizona, I don’t remember March.

Speaker 2 (30m 55s): Was that the last Phoenix Forum

Speaker 1 (30m 56s): Or No, that was the year after the last Phoenix Forum was 2019. So those

Speaker 2 (31m 1s): Are good times.

Speaker 1 (31m 2s): Yeah. God, I missed that show. So I think it’s where you’re needed

Speaker 2 (31m 6s): It while it was going on, Right? What’s that? It was not enjoyable at all while it’s going on. But now that it’s not around anywhere, I’m like, Oh, those are good times.

Speaker 1 (31m 13s): Yeah, no, I always loved the show. I always had a great time with the show too. I, Yeah. And, and it was as far as the gay space that was the show.

Speaker 2 (31m 22s): Oh yeah. Back then, the gay side of the industry, we had, we had some cache if we showed up at something, it seemed like the rest of the industry paid attention that we were going there. And I don’t know how that happened, but it was, you know, there was Morgan and I and a group of us that became really close friends. Yeah. And sort of that friendship I think created the sense in the rest of the industry of importance whenever we showed up. Yeah. Cause we always just stuck together and it was, you know, it was, it was the Velvet Mafia, but it was very funny.

Speaker 1 (31m 51s): Yeah. That’s where, that’s where I no doubt, met Morgan and Tim and, you know, all the, the core group in the, in the gay space and Yeah. You know, it’s, I miss those parties, man. I miss those, those, those were some great times, some really great

Speaker 2 (32m 7s): Times. It was really fun. And, you know, good business going on too. Yes. Yes. And it just felt like, it felt like the wild West in a lot of ways. But it wasn’t, this was, I I, I can remember back to when these events were people like you and me talking to each other and then eventually at some point people like you and me started sending our sales people to talk to people like you and me.

Speaker 1 (32m 27s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (32m 28s): I was like, what am I, what am I talking to a salesperson for? Like what is happening? So, Exactly. It’s funny, the industry changed in a heartbeat and the way that people did business change in the heartbeat and then Exactly. Man, wind ruined it all.

Speaker 1 (32m 42s): Yeah. That definitely was not a good thing. So, Oh, so I was saying that it’s March, 2020 and I was down there. I was actually down there. I used to go every year for baseball and then right after baseball would be the Phoenix Forum. I spend a month down there watching my Giants. Well

Speaker 2 (32m 58s): That’s right. The, the grapefruit league, not the Grapefru League, but spring training goes on down there.

Speaker 1 (33m 2s): Yeah. Cactus league. Cactus League Grape Grapefruits, Florida. I’ve never seen a grapefruit in Arizona. Probably never will. The supermarket. Supermarket.

Speaker 2 (33m 10s): I think I got confused cuz one year the Blue Jays had to be in Arizona. Really? Something was going on in Florida. I forget what it was, but, so I, my brain plus I’m an old lady so I can’t keep any facts straight.

Speaker 1 (33m 22s): You’re so funny. I remember that we’re watching CNN when I used to watch CNN and I watch, I used to watch any news which I tried to avoid these days. It depresses me ever since January 6th.

Speaker 2 (33m 35s): That’s just

Speaker 1 (33m 36s): Infuriating. 2021. It, it just depresses me. So we here San Francisco Bay area has just been locked down. I looked at my wife and I’m like, these exact words were fucking outta here. They had just stopped spring training and I have a t-shirt, by the way, a Giants t-shirt that says, just getting started.

Speaker 2 (33m 59s): Not really now

Speaker 1 (34m 0s): I love that shirt. I just love that shirt. And so at that point, spring training was over. So we had over the weekend, gone out to Grand Canyon in Sedona over a couple days and come back and it was a Tuesday and on Friday we flew to LA and we, we were on a a j A L flight from LA to Tokyo to Bangkok. And we got outta there and I’m amazed that we got a flight. But anyway, it was really weird time.

An extremely weird time. So back to the questions, sir. Let’s say I’m looking, cause you and I can be us all day. Let’s say I’m looking for an editor. We’re both good at it. What should I look for? So teach me to be the expert in hiring one.

Speaker 2 (34m 50s): Oh, it’s easy. Step one, hire stiff media. Okay, Step two. There is no step two,

Speaker 1 (34m 56s): Step two, repeat, Step one,

Speaker 2 (34m 58s): Wash, rinse, repeat. But I mean, sir, you know what I would say look for an editor that’s gonna ask questions and be interested in the story that you’re trying to tell. And it’s hard to think that there’s stories important. Like, I don’t mean like, you know, there’s somebody order a pizza that’s plot, This is a story, it’s something very different. And a story could just be, you know, the, the way that someone goes from fully clothed to glistening insertion, like Right. There’s a craft to that. But a good editor is gonna ask you questions and any editor that quotes you a flat rate without knowing the job or what’s involved has to cut corners.

It’s a fact of life. So if you’ve got someone, someone, I’ll

Speaker 1 (35m 38s): Do it. Run, don’t run and hide. Right.

Speaker 2 (35m 39s): Well yeah. Or run and hide or run to your computer and go directly to stiff media.com and contact me.

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): Yes. Do not

Speaker 2 (35m 46s): Pass shameless self promotion com.

Speaker 1 (35m 48s): Do not pass, do not collect $200.

Speaker 2 (35m 51s): Yeah. I mean listen, you gotta have a relationship with your editor and it’s not always fun cuz they’re always under the stress of not having the, the con or the, the footage that they need in order to say what they feel they wanna say. And, but you know, your editor needs to understand what you want so they can give it to you quickly and effectively. Anyone who says offers you a flat rate, Oh a hundred bucks a scene. Like, just go on fiber, then throw, throw your footage in the air and wherever it lands, that’s your edit cuz that’s about what you’re gonna get. And again, if all else fails, just hire stiff media.

Speaker 1 (36m 24s): Where have I heard, where have I heard that before? God sounds familiar. Sounds really familiar. So what’s what’s the number one thing you tell new clients before you’re editing their content?

Speaker 2 (36m 36s): Oh, that’s a good question. Which is something someone said.

Speaker 1 (36m 40s): I know because I asked it

Speaker 2 (36m 40s): When they don’t have an answer ready for the

Speaker 1 (36m 42s): Question. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (36m 44s): But there’s not, you know, it’s not like one thing. It’s really, it’s a conversation. So if I’m talking to a new client, my first job is always to understand what, where they’re coming from, what they need. You know, I need to know what kind of cameras they shot on the frame rates, the picture profiles. Are they using second system audio? What are they, what is their output? Where, what certain intended audience? Is it going on the web? Is it going to dvd? Are they going to broadcast? Cuz everything is a little bit different and how you’re gonna color grade it is different if it’s going on TV versus the internet.

So it, it’s really, it’s not about the number one. You know what, I guess the one thing I tell new clients is I can’t quote you anything until I find out more about what you’re doing. Yeah. And it’s weird because some people appreciate that and other people just have no time for it. They’re just like, I just wanna know what you’re doing. Like here I’ve got 500 previews I need you to do. Here’s, here’s 30 DVDs. I need 500 previews from it. And I’m like, Okay, I can do that, but I can’t quote you until I know all this other stuff.

Like, yes, I want to give people the right, the right finished product. I don’t wanna just do the job and get the, the check. I’ve been in this industry way too long and you know, it’s, it’s not, I don’t, I don’t need to do this to pay my rent anymore. I’m doing this because it’s, it’s something that’s enjoyable and I really feel that I can contribute to the process. So I really approach it from that point of view.

Speaker 1 (38m 5s): And you know what asking questions is what any professional should do. You see an attorney, they ask you lots of questions about the case. You see a doctor, they ask you where it hurts, how long does it hurt? Okay. Right. So if you’re in, in my case, a website broker, I ask to see financials. I ask for a history of the website. I ask why you’re selling in my marketing work, I’m asking people a whole bank of questions so I can actually see where they’re at and where they’re going.

So if you’re a professional, you should be asking questions, lots of questions. And if you don’t ask questions, then that person isn’t a professional. That’s my fear.

Speaker 2 (38m 48s): Yeah. I mean, you wanna get to the point with your customers or I want to get to the point with my customers where, you know, I just know them well enough and I know what each individual is looking for, that they can just send me their stuff and I can decipher what the plot is based on what I know about them. But that doesn’t, that doesn’t come, you know, out of thin air. Right. Like it takes, it takes a long time to build that relationship and build the trust and build the understanding. And you know, that’s, that’s the constant process that you’re always involved in with your customers, especially on the editing side of the business.

Speaker 1 (39m 17s): Absolutely. Are, Do you think plots are dead in adult videos?

Speaker 2 (39m 22s): Well, I, we touched on this earlier. I don’t, I don’t think, I mean, plots are boring, right? But story is everything. So plots are the, did somebody order a pizza or plots are, or trying to sell plot. But instead we’re in Florida and now we’re having gang bang in the hotel room. That is not story. That’s just plot. Yes. But story can unfold in any situation. And story involves conflict in characters and change. And it’s the thing that is really engaging. And I think the people that are really excelling right now understand that whether it’s a cocky boys or it’s a disruptive films or, you know, a Noel Alejandro, the people that are really sort of standing out for the quality of their content all understand that that story is separate from plot and the context of what you’re doing doesn’t matter what you’re doing and what the people on the screen are doing is the thing that’s engaging the customers, engaging the viewers.

Right. So, sure. I don’t, I don’t think plot is dead, although I think it should be

Speaker 1 (40m 24s): Kill it. Kill it.

Speaker 2 (40m 26s): But you know, in my defense as well, a good edit can make or break any story. Sure. So whether, whether you have a story or, or a crappy plot. If you got a crappy edit, it’s gonna look crappy no matter what

Speaker 1 (40m 39s): Crap equals crap.

Speaker 2 (40m 40s): Wow. There’s that. Right.

Speaker 1 (40m 42s): So as an editor you see all the behind the scenes footage on every production. What’s the most interesting thing you’ve ever seen when editing a video?

Speaker 2 (40m 51s): Now? Was there air quotes around the word interesting there, Bruce? Interesting. I mean,

Speaker 1 (40m 59s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (40m 59s): There’s been so many and I, you know, I can’t really, I can’t talk about the funny stuff because that would be betraying the confidence of my customers. But there’s all kinds of funny stuff. I think for me, you know, it’s not one incident so much as it’s just seeing the process behind the scenes. Seeing what she, she larou is like when she’s not directing, when you catch the glimpses of her without being on as a character, seeing what the porn stars are like when they’re not on, when they’re not, you know, engaged in fornication when they’re just hanging around.

Like seeing the real people, setting up the scenes in the background. That process I find infinitely fascinating. And it’s a look, it’s something that so few people get to ever see. So it feels almost perverted, but not in a dirty way almost.

Speaker 1 (41m 51s): So for not perverted in a dirty way, it’s perverted in not in a dirty way. That’s interesting. Good clean

Speaker 2 (41m 58s): Perversion. You

Speaker 1 (41m 59s): Understand? Oh yeah. Little good, little good clean perversion. I like that. That’s a Carl, I come up with a new vocabulary every time I talk to you.

Speaker 2 (42m 8s): That’s what I’m here for.

Speaker 1 (42m 10s): You said you can’t talk about the funny stuff because you’ll violate confidence, but you don’t have to identify who it is. Tell me one story.

Speaker 2 (42m 19s): No, I can’t. It’s

Speaker 1 (42m 21s): Too, too heroin.

Speaker 2 (42m 22s): Something funny. No, but, but I will tell you this much. Okay. You don’t, you don’t even get your official badge of being a, a pornographer, especially a gay pornographer until someone shits on your face. This is part rule.

Speaker 1 (42m 38s): Ok. Yes.

Speaker 2 (42m 39s): It was like, it’s like, oh, you shoot porn. Yeah. Did somebody shit on your face yet? No. Then you don’t shoot porn.

Speaker 1 (42m 46s): That’s all I’m saying. Yeah. You know, I’m getting the visual and it’s not a good one.

Speaker 2 (42m 51s): Yeah. I mean, you know, one of my funny taglines for this, for this business is editing is more than taking out the farts and giggles, but it’s most definitely involves taking out the farts and giggles.

Speaker 1 (43m 4s): Nice. So you have obviously a lot of experience in the gay space, maybe more than anybody. So do you anticipate most of your business coming from the gay market or from straight as well?

Speaker 2 (43m 18s): You know, it’s funny. Most of my business comes from the gay side of the industry. Sure. But I think that’s just happenstance.

Speaker 1 (43m 24s): Well, that’s your, that’s contacts.

Speaker 2 (43m 26s): It’s my contacts. It’s, it’s who I’ve known and you know, I’ve got a few clients that produce straight content and they’re super happy with the job that I do. But most of the stuff that comes through stiff media is gay. Yeah. Would I personally rather look at dick’s or pussy? Well, you know, I’d rather just watch TV and go to bed to be honest. But, Or, or order a pizza. Well,

Speaker 1 (43m 49s): It’s do, do you anticipate more straight business coming?

Speaker 2 (43m 54s): You know, I, I honestly don’t judge customers in that way. Like any new customer that’s coming to me that wants to get editing, we have that conversation. We figure out what people want. Sure. Most of the time the straight customers that are coming through it, it’s weird, but they’re the customers that have ready made content that they want Tube clips for or they want 32nd previews for, or they want me to chop up scenes and create other things for it. It’s not like the same thing where we’re creating a production, which is what most of the customers that are producing gay content do for me.

And I think it’s just all happenstance. I’m not replacing a judgment on the, the straight side of the industry, but it’s weird. It’s more of a fast and in and out. Oh, here we go. It’s an in and out industry. They’re like, Yeah, whatever. Tits, Tits, click, click give me, gimme previews, Right? Tits

Speaker 1 (44m 45s): Cock pussy, goodbye

Speaker 2 (44m 47s): Tits cock pussy. Goodbye. Did somebody order a pizza?

Speaker 1 (44m 52s): It’s funny that whenever the pool guy’s here, I say he’s the world’s most famous porn star.

Speaker 2 (44m 58s): Who’s your, who’s your is Jeff Striker Cleaning pools. Now what?

Speaker 1 (45m 6s): You’re so funny. You’re so I’m the worst by the way. You’ve mentioned a team. How many editors do you have working for

Speaker 2 (45m 12s): You? There’s three people that I bounce between, including myself, but I also have other people that I rely on for motion graphics. And if there’s a really tough color grading, I’ve got a a per a really great colorist. So it’s, it’s sort of a virtual company at this point. Cause that’s just, Yeah, that’s the way the world works now. But you know, it’s, it fluctuates anywhere between three and half a dozen people depending on the jobs that are that required. And I could expand that as much as necessary. But the important thing, if I’m gonna talk about expanding, everyone has to understand that I’m the final say on any edit on the, on any project.

Sure. That comes through our door. So if somebody does all the grunt work, I go through and do the finishing touches on it to make sure that it’s exactly up to the quality

Speaker 1 (45m 55s): Control freak, huh?

Speaker 2 (45m 57s): Yeah. But most of the time, most of the time, to be honest, I’m doing most of it myself cuz I kind of like it.

Speaker 1 (46m 3s): So Sure you do. I know it’s obvious. I can hear the passion. I can hear the passion for what you do and I think anything you do. What’s

Speaker 2 (46m 11s): That? That’s my emphysema.

Speaker 1 (46m 13s): Oh, I’m sorry. Okay. I get confused. Well, Carl, it was a pleasure having it back on. Adult site broker talk again,

Speaker 2 (46m 23s): Always a pleasure. It’s like, it’s like we’re just having a phone conversation. It doesn’t feel like we’re actually doing a real podcast except for all the mentions of stick media.com. Yeah, Stick media.com, stiff media.com.

Speaker 1 (46m 36s): Anyway, I hope we’ll get a chance and do this again soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about converting traffic and improving user experience. Make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer isn’t good, you won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or to get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you’re selling something, make buying easy.

Show them an easy way to buy and then leave. Help them by making suggestions on what to buy. amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this if you can. Don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons and images, keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones.

The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to take. It’s not that hard. Just remember, when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process like a human being. Whatever you do, don’t turn over that process to your designer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is you’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Steph Sia of Stripped by Sia.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Karl Edwards of Stiff Media. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Jerry Davies of Najers, the makers of Balldo.

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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer an amazing opportunity. If you’re in the live cams model management or fan site space, or want to get into them, we have a private listing that may be just right for you. This company works with all major CAM sites and has access to hundreds of US based models.

We’re offering very limited information at the seller’s request. In order to maintain privacy, we anticipate multiple offers for this very rare listing. For more information, contact us on our website@adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Jerry Davies of nas, the makers of bdo. Jerry, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 15s): It’s a pleasure, Bruce. Very glad to be here.

Speaker 1 (2m 18s): Glad to have you. It took us a while.

Speaker 2 (2m 20s): Yeah, well we got here in the end, so yeah, to have this chat

Speaker 1 (2m 25s): Indeed. Me too. Now Jerry is your classic ahead of the game entrepreneur having predicted market trends by setting up the world’s first Echo Superstore in Australia in 2007 by doing an electric bike manufacturing company in the UK in 2014. Most recently, he designed NA’s first product, Thedo Jerry and his now business partner Elizabeth, saw the massive untapped opportunity with products for men’s balls one night while making ball jokes over a bottle of wine.

Must have been a good one to be at. At in 2019. They patented BDO and a whole range of other ball related products. They used crowdfund crowdfunding to fund the bdo with the campaign launching in February, 2021, BDO hit its funding target in 10 hours and went on to sell $105,000 worth of products via Indiegogo. The hilarious launch video of the bdo, and you’ve gotta see this, it’s just God, we’ll have you on the floor.

It’s cemented its position as a cult icon, particularly in the US where it’s received high profile coverage on Howard Stern, cosmopolitan, Vice Wired, and Playboy to name a few. So he was, Jerry was on coward Stern. Now he’s really slumming it with me now. Yours is working hard to launch more products, including a new and improved vibrating version of the bald. It will be on the shelves at Christmas time. I’m sorry, Jerry. That’s all the time we have for today. So, just kidding.

When did you first realize that you were an entrepreneur?

Speaker 2 (4m 2s): It’s, that’s the funny one actually, Bruce, because I think, you know, I, I was selling, buying secondhand lawn mowers at the age of about 14 and earning more money than my father by giving him a wipe with an oily rag and selling them on. So technically I kind of should have been classified as an entrepreneur then, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t until my sort of late thirties that I really thought, Hang on a minute, I’ve got this pattern of, do a normal job, get bored, come up with an idea, start a business and do that business.

You know? So it took a long while. You know, there was nobody there to tell me, you are an entrepreneur. You know, I just had to sort of figure it out for myself.

Speaker 1 (4m 50s): Sure. Well, nobody ever tells you, you, look, here’s the thing, you’re either an entrepreneur or you’re not. And there are two types of people in this world. There are people who have companies and there are people who work for those companies.

Speaker 2 (5m 6s): Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. It’s, I I, I think what, what I’m trying to say is my, my sort of entrepreneurialism is kind of mixed with being an inventor as well. Right, right. I’m a kind of inventor entrepreneur is probably the, the best way to describe me.

Speaker 1 (5m 25s): And what was your, what was your first invention?

Speaker 2 (5m 28s): What was my first invention? I think I invented a wind turine that fitted underneath the eves of a house when I was about five for a, for a TV show. And I won a prize for it, but it wouldn’t have worked. Never would’ve worked. But he’s gotta

Speaker 1 (5m 47s): Go. You invented it. Nobody ever said it had to work.

Speaker 2 (5m 51s): Probably people have invented it right now. There’s, I mean, that’s one thing you realize about being a sort of inventor is, and entrepreneurs, there’s so many people who just launching stuff that’s just never gonna work, and they raise some money for it and get some investment, but it doesn’t work

Speaker 1 (6m 7s): Well. How about practical? How about practical inventions that did work. What was the first one of those?

Speaker 2 (6m 13s): Oh, the first one that works, I would say it was a, I was working for a major biscuit manufacturer. Cookie manufacturer in US parlance. And there was a particular type of conveyor, which sort of, with these biscuits all over the factory. And I invented this sort of universal guide rail for this conveyor that could be sort of rapidly moved up, down, left right.

And all that sort of stuff. But, you know, I was, I was pretty young. Didn’t have any financial backing. I, I tried to patent it. Didn’t end up doing it just because the cost, you know? Yeah. But I would say that was my first sort of unique invention. Very, very cool. I, I’ve actually seen that and been done, you know, maybe 10 years ago somebody sort of did it and commercialized it, so, you

Speaker 1 (7m 16s): Know. Damn damnit. Yeah. That was your invention.

Speaker 2 (7m 19s): I know. But you know, unless you’ve got a huge pot of money and endless patience with patent writing. Right. You know, it’s, you can’t just keep pumping out the ideas, you know, you, you have to keep some in your head. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 34s): Inventing things is really an art onto itself, isn’t

Speaker 2 (7m 38s): It? Definitely, definitely. And, and, and I think qualification is, is the key skill you have as an inventor. It’s just, is what you’ve come up with a, a product that’s actually useful? Is it a, is it a product that’s gonna make any money? Is it a product that’s gonna maybe be more relevant in the future than it is now? If so, is your patent worthwhile investing in now to wait for something to happen 15 years down the track?

So I think qualification, looking at all the, spreading it all out, doing your research, that that is the skill of being an inventor. I think

Speaker 1 (8m 17s): Just like what you just talked about. Were there other, was there other knowledge that you picked up in your early experiences that you have now that you wished you had back then?

Speaker 2 (8m 28s): Oh my god, Yeah. Well, we, my, my business partner and I back in Australia in the early naughts, we, we set up this eco superstore and one of the things we did was carbon trading. So we were, we were making, we were replacing light globes and in people’s houses and fitting solar panels, and we were basically getting a, a carbon credit, which we could then trade on, on the market. Sure. And this business, you know, I went from sort of earning 30 grand a year to earning, you know, 10 million a year within one year.

Wow. And we did that for three years running, so totally wet behind the years, no idea about finances. Just kept thinking, oh, you know, the, the gold’s just gonna keep coming year after year and we’ll build our dream of Yeah. This being a mainstream brand all around the world. We never had our eye on the books and particularly the, the risks that we’re, we were exposed to. And I think, you know, now if I could go back and speak to myself back then, I’d just go, look, this is a p and l, this is a balance sheet.

Look at the size of your payroll bill. Yeah. This is something called forecasting. What happens if sort of modeling. Yeah. And, and I think the other thing was, you know, don’t trust your bloody accountants. You need, you need to check what they’ve done and Right. You know, forensically analyze, you know, what they’re advising you and maybe take second and third opinions because Sure. You know, we, we just employed, you know, some reasonably high tier accountants who just charged us an absolute fortune and didn’t really give us any, Don’t do this, don’t do that.

So yeah, that was the single biggest hole in my early experience, was just the financial understanding, I think. And it’s such a shame because there was a lot of money in that business. A lot of money.

Speaker 1 (10m 39s): I bet. So tell us how you came up with the idea of the boulder.

Speaker 2 (10m 44s): Yeah, so, so the, the wine and the, as discussed in the sort of the, the preamble was kind of like the, the culmination of the qualification period. So I, you know, I’m, I’m a kinky bastard and I, I like, so I, I like, I like sort of experimenting a bit and I act, it’s a funny story of this. So I, I, I went on a friend of mine’s stag, do, I dunno if you call it aag do in the US us you know, what’s that bugs party before you get married?

Speaker 1 (11m 24s): Oh, you’re talking about a bachelor party.

Speaker 2 (11m 26s): Bachelor party. There you go.

Speaker 1 (11m 29s): Great movie.

Speaker 2 (11m 31s): I’ve never seen that. I’ve never seen that. I must watch it. We, my God.

Speaker 1 (11m 36s): Yes, you must. It’s a classic.

Speaker 2 (11m 39s): We did this thing called oceaneering. I dunno if you’ve ever heard of that. It’s ba basically you, you, you clamber along rocks on the, on the coastline on a cliff, and then you just jump in off those rocks into the ocean.

Speaker 1 (11m 50s): So I mean, what could go wrong? Right.

Speaker 2 (11m 52s): Well, here’s what went wrong. So I was wearing some non appropriate underwear, shall we say, or, you know, I wasn’t wearing my speedo, which kept my, my nuts tightly fast into my body. So I, I jumped off this rock and I ended up, as we say in the UK dropping a ball, you know, dropping a bullock and shit. And I, I came out and like, my balls were just sort of feeling a bit weird and I looked, and one of them was just much lower than the other.

And I thought, Oh no, what’s going on here? And took some advice from the, the doctor and he said, Oh, you’ve, you’ve gotta be very careful here because you know, you’ve, you’ve effectively stretched your, your, your tubes going to your, your testes. And no, I was like, No,

Speaker 1 (12m 47s): Making me hurt, just hearing about it.

Speaker 2 (12m 50s): But, but the weird thing was, I, I thought, well, hang on a minute. This, when I, when I pulled down on my ballsack with my thumb, my four four finger, they feel okay. They feel right. So I bought myself one of these stainless steel ball weights, ball stretches, and I wore that for a bit and the problem went away. It’s just kind of like, put them in the right place and stopped them feeling like they were sort of loose, you know, rolling around in the trunk of the car.


Speaker 1 (13m 23s): That’s good to hear.

Speaker 2 (13m 24s): Yeah. So I, I managed to sort of cure myself just by sort of reorganizing my ball, shall we say. And then I thought, well, hang on a minute. This, this is actually quite a nice sensation. I like this. You know, people, people have been doing this for years. It’s, it’s way, way popular in, in the, in the gay community. Oh yeah. And I thought, well, what about if I, you know, add a bit more weight to, to this and, you know, how much can the balls take? And I was sort of pleasantly surprised and, and this is it.

I’m not, and I’m not an extreme person in this sense at all. You know, I won’t do, I’m not into pain and stuff like that in, in the bedroom. It was just more sort of a mild sort of edging sort of sensation. So yeah, the ball, I figured out the boards could actually really take quite a lot of, a lot of weight. I’ve, I found out that they could, they feel they felt a lot happier being sort of cupped or held in a position.

And I’ve always had really sort of sensitive boards. I don’t, I don’t like people licking them or poking them or fondling them. I like them to be sort of slightly tugged, bit of a, just think of that thumb and forefinger around the top pulling down a little bit. That is the sort of optimum position for the, the balls. So yeah, we, being engineers that we are having a 3D printer, we, we made some early prototypes of, you know, a kind of ball cage that sort of organized the balls.

And the idea originally was it would be a sort of edging device and a tugging device. And then we thought, well, geez, actually you could put these inside somebody, you know, and that’s where we sort of put the, the tip on the front and we had to invent a, a compressible, a non-compressible cord that actually was expandable in, in one plane. So you could get the, the balls in the top and hey ho, that first BS sex experience was had and it, and it was good.


Speaker 1 (15m 37s): I’ll take your word for it.

Speaker 2 (15m 38s): Well, this is it, you know, there’s, you know, like you were saying earlier, there’s the people who work for people and the people who own companies. I think it’s the same with boss. Absolutely. The same with boss. You have the people who you going in my balls, I’ll punch you in the face and then you have to do what you like with my balls. I love it. You know, there’s, there’s those two camps and what I figured out is if you tell the, the, the guys who wanna run a mile, when you mention anything about balls, to just cut their balls and just do what I said, just tuck down a little bit, they go, Oh yeah, that’s, that’s nice.

I like that my boss feel safe. So it’s, it’s a case of convincing those, those people that you know, you’re gonna be alright if you wear a border or, or anything like that. Right.

Speaker 1 (16m 24s): Yeah. I think it’s definitely a bit of a paradigm shift and yeah, I mean my, my initial impression is Hmm. Balls, huh. But hey, you know, I I, I know that from everything you and I have talked about, it’s, it’s something that can be very useful. Tell us what steps you took to patent the idea and what is actually protected by the patent.

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): Yeah. Well, I, I can tell you that because it’s patented. Yes. And, you know, there’s all this sort of stuff about, oh, you must have an NDA before you talk to people. Well, you know, a patent’s the best NDA in the world in, in

Speaker 1 (17m 6s): My view.

Speaker 2 (17m 7s): Yes, it is. I I have been advised as such. So yeah, the, the steps to patent were basically prototype, prototype, prototype, record all your prototypes, record all of the possibilities, all of the connections, all of the,

Speaker 1 (17m 22s): Yeah. When you say, when you, when you say record, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (17m 27s): Document? Just, just, just, it’s almost like you’re keeping a, a journal of of what you’ve done. All the different things that, you know, work didn’t work because when you pattern something, you can, you can record all of those Yes.

Speaker 1 (17m 44s): And include them.

Speaker 2 (17m 45s): Include them. Yeah. Sorry, include, And the only thing stopping you from including all of those options that you’ve explored is that it might conflict with some, but somebody else’s patent, somebody else’s prior art. So, Sure. In the case of Bordo, we, I think we’ve got over 35 pages of variance of the Bordeaux and ball cages that, you know, allow attachments, either tips for penetrations or tugs or vibrations and, and all of the attachment mechanisms possible.

So it’s a very robust, encompassing patent. Yeah. In terms of the steps of doing it, we, we’ve got the UK patent first, and then by doing so, you get a, a grace period sort of internationally where you can then file some something called the, the P C T, which is the, it’s kind of like the International Patent Convention Treaty. What that, once you file that, that then gives you two years of protection internationally to give you time to then file in each of those nations.

So as a result of doing well over the last two years since we filed the P ct, we have chosen the markets that we, we think, you know, we wanna secure and we’ve filed individual local patents in those areas. Right. I mean, unless you’ve got half a mill in the bank and you wanna throw that at patenting in every single country in the world. Yeah. You know, you’ve gotta look at where the value is, so

Speaker 1 (19m 36s): Right. You pick your best markets.

Speaker 2 (19m 37s): Exactly. Exactly. So that’s what’s been done, and here we are. And now, you know, by virtue of having this, this patent, we’ve got 20 years of exclusivity on, on the BDO design effectively. And nice. And I, and I think, you know, because I am prone to coming up with things a little before, they’re actually sort of, I would say, sort of, you know, the norm in a market or, or just a standard sort of product.

I, I think our, our, you know, our sort of our our day is, is yet to come, You know, we’ve had a good sort of early success, but really, I, I think balls will be a commonplace thing in all adult stores. There’ll be a ball section, there’ll be categories in eCommerce sites, and I think we’re still probably three to five years away from that. But, you know, as I said earlier, that was all part of the qualification. You know, how long is it gonna take for this to really sort of go off?

Sure. And where’s our value in the patent?

Speaker 1 (20m 44s): Right. So what other IP did you have, have, or do you have?

Speaker 2 (20m 49s): So obviously you’ve got the, the, the brand bdo, well the name Bordo. So that’s, that’s trademarked internationally as well. That’s kind of key because we had, we had a great success with our sort of launch campaign. Yes. And as you said earlier, the, the, the video was a cartoon. We produced kind of

Speaker 1 (21m 12s): Fabulous

Speaker 2 (21m 13s): South parking and style, huge amount of hits, lot of traffic coming from that. And hence, you know, BDOs became this sort of cult comedic kind of thing on a lot of the comedy sites. Right. And again, I still don’t think that’s, that’s gone anywhere near to its sort of true potential. It’s, it’s kind of got this cult status and, and I think B bordo ends up being a word like dildo, bordo, vibrator, you know, it’s, it’s a b ddo, so there’s not a lot of products out there that can just be classified by that, by a single word.

True. And instantly recognize. So again, in that three to five years scenario, Bordeaux, I don’t wanna say it’s a house old name because it’s not a household name, but to, to all of us grownups, we’ll know what a BDO is. Exactly. And that’s our, our brand. It’s our, it’s our, it reflects our ip, it’s our domain name, you know, it’s, yeah. It’s, it’s like having a website called dildo.com, you know, I guess

Speaker 1 (22m 23s): Gonna look that up. So how, how did you go about setting up a crowdfunding campaign?

Speaker 2 (22m 29s): That was great fun actually. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone just, just to do for a, a product of any kind. It’s, it’s, it requires a lot of massaging of supporters finding your supporters. And again, we were very, I don’t wanna say lucky, I think we planned well in doing the, the, the sort of comedic launch video because that got us up absolutely six to 10,000 subscriber base.

Just, just like that, you know, literally we had those signups in two or three days, pretty much was, it was crazy. So by having that many people pay, you know, paying attention when you launched a campaign, you know, they, they subscribed and, and within 10 hours we got our, our campaign target. But it was, it was, it was a lot of, a lot of tweaking, a lot of sort of, you know, sort of pre-launch PR interviews, things like that.

And that, that was tricky actually, because we had to send out kind of homemade samples to radio shows, to TV to podcasts. And these were, you know, it wasn’t ideal sending out a sort of handmades, These were hand poured BDOs that we made in my garage downstairs in, in a 3D printed mold. They worked, but, but they didn’t look anywhere near as pretty as the, the finished product. So. Right. Yeah. It’s a little bit iffy on the initial impressions, but Right.

We got there in the end.

Speaker 1 (24m 12s): That’s excellent. So how about marketing? How did you go about that?

Speaker 2 (24m 16s): Well, there we go again. So it, again, we thought, well, we need to kind of soften this a little bit. You know, if if we, if we, the, the people we were speaking to early on when we first started to sort of connect with the adult industry going, Oh, that’s very niche. You know, it’s a chastity device, it’s a, it’s, it’s a BDSM device, It’s, it’s gotta be a long while before this becomes a mainstream thing. So we thought, well, we, we need to soften this, so, so let’s, let’s look at a way that we can make this fun.

And one of the things that sort of really, really put us on the right track was, I dunno if you remember in the first Jurassic Park, the, the video, and they all sit in the theater and you’ve got burg there doing the, the talk through with the DNA that they find in the, in the mosquito, in the amber, that, that sort of simplification in a cartoon format that got us thinking. We’re like, Yeah, why don’t we do this? Why don’t we have a talking pair of balls?

And let’s just sort of

Speaker 1 (25m 20s): Makes me laugh every time I think about it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 23s): Let’s, let’s do this as a sort of public information film, you know, a bit bit duck and cover if, if you like. We, we were a hundred percent on the money with that because what it did was give us instantly the mainstream market. Yeah. We had total turnaround of expectations. You know, we are having, we have, I think it’s even gone up, like last time I checked, I think we had like 35% women buying the product. We can clearly see that it’s, it’s a main mainstream sort of buyers.

I’d say only about 20% are actually niche or a hardcore chastity, bdsm, that sort of stuff. So we’ve, we’ve, we’ve done the right thing. We’ve got it into mainstream where, you know, the bulk of the market is, so I think we go ourselves a pat on the back for the marketing.

Speaker 1 (26m 14s): Yeah. You know, I mean, you talk about the industry’s reaction and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen it in all my years in the industry where someone comes in from the outside with something different and everybody with, with their tunnel vision in fine form goes, Oh no, it’ll never work. No, it’ll never work. It’s, it’s, it’s very niche. It’s very niche. It’ll never work. But, and, and a lot of times the people are turned away and it doesn’t work.

But I, I love what you’ve done and like you said, the mainstream has adopted it, they’ve been receptive to it, and the mainstream is where you’re gonna make most of your money.

Speaker 2 (26m 59s): Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think, Go ahead. We, we, we, we had, and just to sort of, you know, back up what you’re saying there, we had in, you know, joining the Ex BS community and, and just sort of chatting to people on the, the forums there, having sort of early meetings on Covid, you know, some sort of quite senior figures in the industry were like, you know, I, I’ve thought I’ve seen it or I thought I’ve seen it, or, and, and

Speaker 1 (27m 29s): What I thought

Speaker 2 (27m 30s): Completely surprised us that this is actually possible and it’s a, a thing and it’s enjoyable. So yeah, we, we kind of, you know, really sort of, I, I think that really sort of stuck home with us that, you know, we, we’d come up with something new and, and people were just receptive to it as well.

Speaker 1 (27m 54s): The way I’m different, the way I’m different from others in the industry is it’s not only my nature, but it’s my job to be open-minded. And when something comes along, I’m like, Oh, that’s cool. Let’s look into this. As opposed to, Oh, that’ll never work. Yeah. I’ve seen so many people make so much money with those that’ll never works. That, Yeah, not, sorry, I don’t think that way. So who is Chuck the balls?

Speaker 2 (28m 19s): Ah, this is the, the little, Yeah. I forgot to mention he’s the, the little ball character that we, we used in the, the sort of viral campaign. Yeah. We just wanted to sort of, again, as I said, soften the, the approach to this by making this sort of making balls. I, I think, I think people think find balls funny. People don’t find penises funny or vaginas funny or ass is maybe ass is up there with balls, but balls are funny.

Yeah. And when you, when you characterize the balls, and this is what we did with Chuck the balls, or Chuck as he is better known, people really sort of like

Speaker 1 (29m 1s): Char,

Speaker 2 (29m 2s): I don’t wanna say, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna say grabbed hold of it, but I will, they kind of really grabbed hold of that. That’s good. Yeah. So it just felt right that we give balls a face and two arms and a mouth.

Speaker 1 (29m 18s): I, I love it.

Speaker 2 (29m 20s): It was lockdown, it was Bruce, what did, everyone, everyone went a bit crazy,

Speaker 1 (29m 26s): If that’s the truth. That kinda leads me into my next question. What were your experiences trying to launch a product? Obviously you did it successfully, but during Covid

Speaker 2 (29m 37s): It was damn hard. It was really hard, very stressful because all, all the usual processes just had collapsed, number one, finding suppliers. Yeah. Normally you’d go and visit three factories, you know, and, and I’ve never, I’ve never been to China. I’ve, I’ve always just done it through sort of web meetings, email, that sort of stuff. But in this case, we really needed, because it was our product that we were manufacturing rather than buying Chinese products off a Chinese factory, we really wanted to just go and get that.

So couldn’t do that. We thought about making it ourselves, you know, how can we do that here in the UK with all the problems with Brexit and import export and shipping

Speaker 1 (30m 30s): And the expenses.

Speaker 2 (30m 32s): It’s, it, it was just no, just don’t do it at all. So, Sure. We ended up having to go with, with an agent, manufacturing agent who obviously sort of took their slice of the Yeah. And, and it was also quite difficult because we’re, you know, engineers talking through sales people to engineers in the factory and, and the, the messages not getting passed on correctly and us not receiving or us receiving a sort of diluted version of what the engineer in the factory has said back about manufacturing issues.

So plus

Speaker 1 (31m 15s): It was really, plus they’re, plus they’re Chinese, so that didn’t help.

Speaker 2 (31m 18s): Well, you know, I I, to be honest, I, I find working with the Chinese factories, you know, there’s a style isn’t there? And, and you, you, once you know how to communicate with them what Yeah. How they do things and when no means no from them. Right. You know, that’s when it’s all okay. Right. That was sort of missing in this, in this, this conversation. And, and it was, it was very stressful, you know, especially when we had deadlines.

We had all these people who paid money up front through crowd funding campaign, like, Right, where’s my product? Where’s my product? Why haven’t I got my product? Sure. Well it’s, it’s, it’s a pandemic and things are all collapsing around the world. So that’s number one why you’re three months late on getting it. Yeah. But yeah, it was, it was hard. So, so there was that, there was the, we ideally wanted some money. We, we had, we, we wanted to launch a brand, not just a single product. So we had, you know, it’s very clear that we had other products that we wanted to bring to market.

So we were looking for an investor from the outset just before the pandemic. We were having some, you know, positive conversations with a number of parties and, and then they just finished as soon as the pandemic came out because why wouldn’t you just wanna sit there, there and guard your chips with your arms and wait until the storm’s blown over? Yeah. So we had to just, we just had to go ahead with the crowd funding only and, you know, thank god it worked. Yeah. I think, I think the other thing that was the, was the biggest problem for us was shipping.

Shipping just became an, an absolute nightmare. Yeah. In terms of cost and also in terms of delays. So we ended up having to air freight our first shipment to oh Lord,

Speaker 1 (33m 16s): The

Speaker 2 (33m 17s): US which, you know, instead of being pennies per unit was dollars per unit. And you know, we’re talking quite a lot of dollars per unit, so that sort of sucked a lot of profit out of the early sales or, you know, we’re still still paying for that right now because you know, that that stock is still being munched through and it was air freighted that the, the worst point in, in the, the pandemic because if we didn’t do that, we would’ve missed the start of the, you know, the sort of season as it were.

So yeah. That, that was a big problem. And, and I think also having to do virtual trade shows, you know, yourself seeing people face to face, Oh,

Speaker 1 (33m 59s): He’s talked over, I hate virtual shows. I I won’t do ’em anymore.

Speaker 2 (34m 2s): Well, we, I don’t, I don’t think anyone will, to be honest with you. They’re, we’re, we’re, we are free again now, aren’t we? But

Speaker 1 (34m 10s): It was kinda,

Speaker 2 (34m 12s): Well, yes, you’re right. It depends where you lived, doesn’t it? Yeah. I think we’ve forgotten all about it here in the UK now, just get reminded every time we go to other countries when they ask us to fill in forms and wear masks and stuff. So it’s, Yeah. It, it’s, I I think in person events, that’s where you build those trusts, get those business relationships and Oh yeah. You know, it’s, it’s, we spend a lot of money on virtual shows where yeah,

Speaker 1 (34m 42s): You can’t, you can’t simulate that. You just can’t simulate that. No, doesn’t, doesn’t work.

Speaker 2 (34m 47s): You can’t cut the deals as well. You know, it’s, it’s, you gotta have that beer with somebody afterwards or that, you know, that little chat. That’s what cements in the deal.

Speaker 1 (34m 59s): Sure. So talk about the market reception of the bald.

Speaker 2 (35m 4s): Yeah, I, I think I sort of touched on it before we, we sort of turned all the expectations around in making it a mainstream product. It’s been picked up by the mainstream sort of press as well. So, you know, we’ve had appearances in Cosmopolitan, Wired magazine and, you know, foreign language media as well, quite a bit of stuff sort of coming through in Germany now. And it’s, it’s all mainstream stuff because it was, it was, it’s so newsworthy.

It’s like, did you know, know that you can use your balls for penetration and Yeah. It’s not a kinky thing. It’s, it’s just something you can actually do. So why not? Why not try it? Exactly. So we, yeah, we just got that sort of reception and that word of mouth sort of passing on, you know, guys and girls in the bar going, Hey, did you hear about the bordo? You know, it’s, it’s that type of rollout that we’re, we’re experiencing. Sure.

Very much the opposite of the, the niche that was predicted.

Speaker 1 (36m 11s): Exactly. Thank you, Chuck. So tell me about your international customer base.

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): Yeah, I mean it’s, it’s a little bit tricky. We we’re basically a US company. Americans love balls. Americans find balls, funny. Americans love trying new sex toys. That’s our experience. So our, our customer base is 92% usa. Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (36m 41s): That’s a lot of potential internationally.

Speaker 2 (36m 44s): Yeah. Yeah. So, so internationally, you know, we, we think the sort of, the other markets are only just starting to wake up, you know, we’ve just, Germany we assume would be, you know, right up there with, with the us but

Speaker 1 (37m 0s): Japan,

Speaker 2 (37m 2s): Japan will, will, will come to later, but yeah, there’s a bit of a complexity there. Well, so

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): Let’s talk about, let’s talk about that. What, what markets have been been a struggle so far, and why do you think so?

Speaker 2 (37m 14s): Yeah, Japan has been one. Yes. I, and I think, I think it’s a one of anatomy basically. And maybe there’s, you know, we’ve, we’ve had that kind of feedback from a couple of potential distributors there where, you know, they’ve said, Look, look, we just not sure whether this is gonna work for Japanese guys and girls.

Speaker 1 (37m 40s): They, they’re known, they, the Japanese guys are supposed to be the smallest in the world.

Speaker 2 (37m 45s): Yeah. Well, I dunno about balls. There’s not enough ball data out out there.

Speaker 1 (37m 50s): No, I just know about, I just know about penises. I guess we have to take a survey of balls, but you gotta kind of figure one will one will kind of follow the other.

Speaker 2 (37m 60s): Yeah, I’d, I’d assume so. And, and also I think if that’s the case, then the, the partner is not likely to be expecting anything as big as the bdo, which is two inches in diameters. So Yeah. You know, maybe that’s why maybe

Speaker 1 (38m 15s): You don’t wanna stretch those poor Asian girls out.

Speaker 2 (38m 18s): Oh no. Yeah. Well, we won’t go into the noises they make off the videos, but my girlfriend does a good impression.

Speaker 1 (38m 27s): Oh, I like that. We should have had her on.

Speaker 2 (38m 31s): That’s

Speaker 1 (38m 32s): Pretty much it.

Speaker 2 (38m 35s): Yeah. But I, I, it’s so annoying because I really, really wanted a Japanese market to take it up because I, I see the Japanese, I’ve spent a lot of time hanging out with Japanese people. I love them. I think they’ve got the same sense of humor that, you know, we do in the UK and in the US as well. And it, it’s that kind of comedic thing with a cartoon character as well, just kind of, it it should, it should fly there, Bruce, I think. And, and I think maybe it’s just a comms thing, which we need to sort of, you know, invest a little more money into further down the track.

Speaker 1 (39m 11s): Maybe you should do a Japanese version of Chuck, Chuck son.

Speaker 2 (39m 16s): Yes. Chuck son with his, Yes. His his little on, Yeah. And his kimona

Speaker 1 (39m 24s): Eating sushi. Oh man, I think we got a script. The

Speaker 2 (39m 28s): Stereotypes everywhere aren’t

Speaker 1 (39m 32s): Terrible.

Speaker 2 (39m 32s): Yeah. Well, yeah, so Japan, I think other markets that, that have been a struggle, Israel’s been a real problem too. We’ve had a lot of interest. I know, Well we had a lot of interest from, from Israeli customers through the crowdfunding campaign, and we had a big problem with shipping to them. And I think it’s the, the, the alphabet issue. It just, things are just getting completely lost and trying to find them.

Yeah. Just absolute failure and the cost of upgrading that shipping to Israeli customers to, you know, FedEx, DHL was just like triple the value of the product in some cases. So, you know, maybe, well the logical thing to do was get an Israeli distributor and we, we explored two or three, didn’t really get anywhere with them. And you know, I, I find that a bit annoying because there was definitely quite a strong appetite from the Israeli market.

You know, we’ve got a good, good signal from them. I, I would say confidently they’re in the top, the top five nationalities who were initially looking up wanting to buy the product. So interesting. Again, we need to do some more work there and you know, it’s just time and getting it right. I think.

Speaker 1 (41m 0s): So what’s your impression so far of the adult market?

Speaker 2 (41m 4s): I love it. It’s number one. I really like the people. We went to the Xbi retreat in Miami. That’s our first actual face to face show, even though it’s not a true sort of, you know, d to C show. It’s a B2B retreat, but everyone’s really nice, very helpful. Kind of like a small, small community, but a but a strong community and yeah, I, I’ve had a ton of advice of some great people and I’m, I’m very thankful for that.

Speaker 1 (41m 39s): Sure, sure. Now how do you see, we talked a little bit about this earlier. How do you see the market for ball related products growing?

Speaker 2 (41m 50s): You’re asking, I think you, maybe you might need an independent on that, but from, from my angle?

Speaker 1 (41m 58s): Oh, you mean you’re, you’re slightly prejudiced. Is that what you’re

Speaker 2 (42m 0s): Trying to say? I might be a little, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Maybe a tad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42m 3s): But one thing I am really pushing for in industry is to have the category of balls ball related products. Because if you look on any eCommerce store, you try and find something for balls, it’s under coing.

Speaker 1 (42m 21s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42m 22s): It’s not a coching, it’s for balls. You know, it’s, you know, there’s, there’s specific products for balls, not, not just the BDO or, or any of the BDOs brothers and sisters when they come online. There’s a whole ton of products out there that are ball specific. Right. So why isn’t there that balls category on an e-commerce, Why is maybe,

Speaker 1 (42m 42s): Maybe BDO will change then?

Speaker 2 (42m 44s): Well, I’m, I’m, I, I think I’ve already got a couple of e-commerce sites to create a balls category and dropped in a whole bunch of other complimentary products or well say complementary, I mean other ball products in there. Right. You know, lubes, ball stretches, you know, that type of thing. And the, the feedback we’ve had is that it’s working, you know, they’re getting good sort of sales through by by doing that. So I would say, I would say in three to five, I your, all of your e-commerce will have a, a ball section

Speaker 1 (43m 21s): That’ll certainly help.

Speaker 2 (43m 23s): Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, and people, a lot of the feedback we’ve had from, you know, I was talking earlier about this sort of industry veterans saying, Look, I’ve thought I’d seen it all, you know, well this whole new sort of, we’ve unlocked the door to balls as a main, as something that needs to be recognized as a, as a thing of that can be stimulated as a thing that can often make up for poor performance or medical issues.


Speaker 1 (43m 53s): Talk, talk a little bit about that. Would you please, Jerry? Yeah, sure. Because, because that is a real appeal for, for men who have have erectile dysfunction, right?

Speaker 2 (44m 4s): Yeah. Yeah. I mean I’m, I’ll just sort of flag here straight away that I’m, I’m not a medical profession, so I, I can’t, I can’t sort of categorically say it’s great for Ed, but what I do know is, you know, and, and bizarrely enough, I actually had Ed for about six months during covid when I got a prostatitis infection, which really knock seven shades of shit out of me. I, I couldn’t get it up. I could, I could only get like half, half a wreck at the, at best.

I just didn’t have that feeling there that, you know, you have when you get that, you know when you want to go. Yeah. And having, using the bdo, I was still able to sort of pleasure my partner with a, a good girth. I could get the sensation of the stimulation of the, the sort of nerve endings in my balls probably made my cock about as a wrecked as I could get it at the time. It’s kind of like having your, your, your baller.

It, it’s, it’s a key trigger. It’s, it’s a key trigger to sort of maximize the potential. And I think for, for, for guys that suffer from Ed or, you know, my experience, you, I think you spend about two or three months going, Ah, yeah, it’ll come back soon. It’ll come back soon. It’ll come back soon. And then it doesn’t.

Speaker 1 (45m 25s): Wishful thinking, Sure.

Speaker 2 (45m 27s): Oh my god, you know what’s, and then the embarrassment starts setting in and the self sort of criticisms and, and you know Sure. The depression sets in about it and the desperation. Yeah. And I think with, with having something like the BDO and still being able to make your wife come or your partner come give them good girth, have, have that sensation, that stimulation and not feel like you’re tying a strap on around and fucking your partner with your stomach, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s down there.

It’s where it’s meant to be. And

Speaker 1 (46m 6s): By the way, what about, what about the gay market? Have you considered that?

Speaker 2 (46m 11s): Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, that was, that was another sort of thing that we assumed would be the number one source of interest and customer. I think that’s still yet to happen. I think we haven’t really sort of reached the sort of penetration, so to speak, so to speak. I’m, I’m immune to these innuendos now. Bruce

Speaker 1 (46m 36s): Can’t imagine

Speaker 2 (46m 37s): Should be too

Speaker 1 (46m 38s): Outta meetings. They just go, Oh, they just roll right off my tongue too, Jerry, all day, all night

Speaker 2 (46m 45s): To the wall, all of that stuff. Yeah. So I, I think, I think half of it is gay is very much, they will have tried an awful lot of this stuff before by, with whatever means they can, you know, whether it’s coch rings or tying a pair of underwear around the top or, you know, leathers sort of support. It’s, it’s largely been sort of already done, but I think they’re then I, I don’t think that market has woken up to it yet.

Sure. And you know that I know a lot of gay people and you know, my one good friend, he’s like, Look, we are the dirtiest bastards in the world. We will try anything. We, we, we we want to go. They will talk about the new thing. And that is how I get my cool points in, in the group. You know, again, I’m sort of surprised. I think it’s a marketing thing. I think we just need to sort of uplift our game a bit in that sector.

Speaker 1 (47m 51s): Maybe you need a, maybe you need a gay chuck.

Speaker 2 (47m 54s): Yeah, could too. Yeah, that would be interesting.

Speaker 1 (47m 58s): Okay. Or Chuck’s brother. Chuck’s brother.

Speaker 2 (47m 60s): Yeah. Chuck’s gay half Billy.

Speaker 1 (48m 2s): Billy Balls.

Speaker 2 (48m 3s): Yeah, Billy Balls. So I’ll, I’ll think of it. It’ll

Speaker 1 (48m 6s): Probably, I won’t charge you for that. I won’t, I won’t charge, I won’t charge you for the mark. My marketing genius. So what are your, He laughs So what are your plans for the progression of the NAS brand and the bdo and what new products are you gonna be launching

Speaker 2 (48m 22s): Soon? First things first, BDO is, you know, version one of Right. The board out. So, you know, we’ve had our sort of initial, and that’s, that’s another thing that was really hard in lockdown was getting testing groups, getting people together, finding sort of testers being, and again, being able to make the samples to send to them and get the materials, blah, blah, blah. It was, it was tough. Yeah. So, you know, we, we’ve, we’ve now had over, I don’t know, maybe 9,000 people officially test it for us by buying the product.

You’ve got a lot of feedback from, from those groups. We had some sort of, again, I was talking earlier about the size of boss and how guys just don’t know what, what size their balls are. And you’ve got guys who’ve got absolutely gigantic balls who just think they, they don’t think about it. They’re just like, I’ve got balls. That’s it. You know, it’s maybe only a partner that ever sees them. And what if that partner’s never seen another man? What if they don’t really watch porn that much?

You know, you just don’t know how, how big or small you are. So we had some sort of feedback with guys with big nuts that, you know, it was, it was a little hard to get on with them, for them. So what we’re looking at is a, a product where you kind of, you know, separate the upper ring so that you can, you don’t have stretch it over your balls. Cool. We’ve got some sort of more design coming into the, the, the, the tip a little more on the tickling sort of front for, you know, the ladies.

And we’ve got a, a vibe that’s in, in the pipeline as well. So that’s basically a vibrating version. We’ve had a lot of requests be

Speaker 1 (50m 13s): Popular.

Speaker 2 (50m 13s): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that, that one’s sort of nearing design completion. And then we got a whole bunch of other, other products. So BDOs sort of really the one that Bordo was the one we sort of knew would probably get the most news and that’s why we launched it first. Right. But we’ve got another two or three products that are equally as sort of out there and different and good as the bdo, which, which we need to bring to market as well.

Great. So again, it’s all time, money, team resources, all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 (50m 50s): Absolutely. Well Jerry, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (50m 59s): Thank you very much, Bruce. It was, it was good fun. Thanks.

Speaker 1 (51m 2s): My pleasure. My broker tip today is part one on how to buy a website. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a Tube site, a cam site, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site, or something else? If you wanna buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and what niche There are literally hundreds of niches and many sub niches. For instance, let’s say you wanna buy a gay site under gay, there’s bears are mature, bareback Asian, Latino, amateur, bi black, euro and fetish, along with many sub fetishes plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks and uniforms straight has even more subes.

I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I wanna buy a site or I wanna buy a pay site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like men and wanna make money on a straight site, that’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing if you’re straight and wanna buy a gay site. So what you like plays a part. What’s your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning.

Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a Cam site with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re gonna need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established and successful site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re gonna need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for.

We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Karl Edwards of Stiff Media. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Jerry Davies of Balldo. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with SafferMaster and Lady Petra of Slubb USA.

Speaker 0 (33s): Adult

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You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program, four, an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale at Tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is three years old.

They are currently the only free tube providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user request and user provided content after moderation. The owner started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it, and he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular On Reddit and Business Sword, the owner is decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry. The site’s visitors come back again and again due to its uniqueness.

They have over 13,000 premium videos and most of them are 30 minutes or longer. With more videos and categories, the site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There’s no advertising being done for the site. All the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic only 269,000 US dollars. Now time for this week’s interview. My guests today on Adult Site Broker talk are Saffer Master and Lady Petra from Slub usa.

Hey you guys, thanks for being with us today on Adult Side Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 47s): It’s our pleasure. Thank you for having

Speaker 1 (2m 49s): Us. Oh, you said that in unison. I like that. Now, Saffer Master and Lady Petra are a lifestyle dominant submissive couple and a twenty four seven, what they call a tpe Total power exchange. I learned that’s what that is. Now. Both Lady Petra and SRA master are lifetime coaches and they offer kink relationship dynamics coaching through their website. Lady petra playground.com. That’s a mouthful. Lady Petra and SRA master are the North American distributors of the new German sex toy sl.

That’s S L U B B from Germany, SL usa. Slub usa.com is the North American distributor of the German company SL store. This is the first real mail masturbator power tool invented by Michael Strobel and patented in eight countries. Slub has been available since 2020. So let’s start out with the basics. How did the two of you meet?

Speaker 2 (3m 49s): So we met through Fe life. I posted a seeking post. I had taken a pretty deep dive into kink and figured out who I was as aster, and I got present to that. I’m a dominant sadist and what I wanted in my life was a submissive masochist, and I was attracted to a lifestyle of kink rather than a intermittent play style of kink. And so I put

Speaker 1 (4m 18s): What would, what would the difference of that would be, by the way?

Speaker 2 (4m 21s): Yeah, that’s a great question. So very often gangsters get together for play sessions and they take on roles. We call it role play. Right? And, and they take on a role of this or that and they, they have a scene and maybe they together for a weekend or maybe an afternoon or an evening and and outside of their kink play, they’re just back at their normal lives. Yeah. And what, what we are is a 24 7 couple. So we literally live together in a dynamic.

Our dynamic is sex forward and kink forward. And it’s always on. It’s never off. And so, you know, we sing practically every day. We do high protocol scenes every week. We have a lifestyle of protocols and and dynamics that are just always on.

Speaker 1 (5m 9s): Now. Now when you say, when you say scenes, I don’t think you’re talking about scene in the porn sense, right?

Speaker 3 (5m 16s): I some people may say it’s porn.

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): People watched us, they would say, You should make a movie. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (5m 21s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (5m 22s): Yep. Yeah. When we see, we basically are engaged in kinky sex that may last anywhere from one to four hours. Hmm. And, and that’s a scene. And in that time we engage in various fetishes that we enjoy.

Speaker 1 (5m 36s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (5m 37s): And,

Speaker 3 (5m 38s): And then high protocol, the difference in that is it’s more protocol driven. So there’s a more of a pattern and a goal of, I’m Saffer Master’s property as his collared slu. And so therefore, one of the goals of the high protocol scene is to end the scene with me being marked with a cane.

Speaker 1 (5m 59s): Okay. And and by 24 7, that means any day time, huh?

Speaker 2 (6m 6s): Correct. All

Speaker 3 (6m 7s): The time.

Speaker 2 (6m 7s): Yeah. It’s always on.

Speaker 1 (6m 8s): Sounds like fun.

Speaker 2 (6m 11s): I’ll give you an example. I’ll give you an example. So right now she’s training as, you know, getting herself in shape running. And so every day she gets a, every day she earns a pr a personal record. She gets click attention. So she gets to come home and I work on her cl for as long as I like.

Speaker 1 (6m 28s): I see. It’s

Speaker 2 (6m 30s): A reward.

Speaker 3 (6m 30s): It’s a huge reward. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (6m 33s): It is. So, I’m sorry I cuz I had layman’s questions about the lifestyle, which is, which is fascinating. Finish your story, please.

Speaker 2 (6m 43s): Yeah. So anyway, I created the Seeking Post, laying out exactly what I was looking for, and she responded to it and we, she reached out to me and we chatted for several months and we met a couple months later. And then we stayed in communication for a few more months before she put herself forward to be claimed into the lifestyle. And after that, soon after that, we moved in together. And about a year later after her divorce was final, we got, she, she, she accepted my call.

So I collared her.

Speaker 1 (7m 17s): In other words, you got married

Speaker 2 (7m 19s): In, in a kink, kinda in a kink sense,

Speaker 3 (7m 21s): But

Speaker 1 (7m 21s): Fell. Oh, ok. Not in a, not in a legal sense. Got it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (7m 25s): No, it’s not legal. But you know, it’s a very deep relationship that has way more,

Speaker 3 (7m 32s): We both been married, so it has way more weight than either of us felt our marriages did.

Speaker 2 (7m 37s): Yeah. There’s a lot more, there’s a lot more emotional energy involved in the relationship because sounds like we literally are having like kinky sex every day. So we’re really engaged in a, in a way that, that we weren’t when we were married.

Speaker 1 (7m 50s): Now it’s interesting, you, you, you talked about chatting for months before you got together in this type of lifestyle. Do you find that people are a little more cautious to meet someone so they need to really get to know them online first?

Speaker 2 (8m 5s): No, I don’t.

Speaker 3 (8m 5s): Cause I think few people do what we do.

Speaker 2 (8m 7s): Yeah. A lot of people in the kink universe go to what are called mus. They meet people at Munch’s or they might go to a club or a dun what

Speaker 1 (8m 15s): You said, a muncher,

Speaker 2 (8m 16s): A munch. Yeah. Like a, it’s normally, it’s a, something that’s offered perhaps at a restaurant where they get together not in kink fetish gear, but just as people and they have a meal and they chat about kink. So they, they beat each other and

Speaker 1 (8m 30s): Like to be at, I’d like to be at the next table.

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): Sure.

Speaker 3 (8m 33s): Exactly. Exactly. And it allows them to start building community around what they’re seeking.

Speaker 2 (8m 39s): Yeah. And then, you know, in a more direct way, they might go to dungeons and people play together in Dungeons. They do what’s in, what in the kink world is called pickup play. Yeah. So, so you might meet somebody in Dungeon and think, Oh, I’d like to spank her. And then you might go ask her, Hey, would you like a spanking? And she might go, Well, yes I would. And then you, then you play, you see, and you make, you make agreements around what the scene’s gonna involve. Got it. And, and then you have the scene. And, and in a dungeon they normally are dungeon monitors, you know, people monitoring to make sure that there isn’t abuse occurring because all of kink involves consent.

Right. And so, you know, it’s a, it’s just a way of engaging with an adult community in an adult play, play way. We talk about how when we’re young people, you know, kids have playtime at school and when you grow up you don’t have playtime as adults. Well what king is, it’s really just playtime for adults with adult games.

Speaker 1 (9m 41s): Yeah, yeah. Adult toys. Definitely. Yeah. De by the way, it doesn’t exist anymore, but did you ever make it to San Francisco? San Francisco? I can, I can pronounce my hometown name to the kink castle.

Speaker 3 (9m 57s): I did not go to the kink castle, but when they had, what was the big event? Because finish ball the Yeah. The exotic erotic ball that was hosted there every year for like 20, 30 years. Sure. I actually got to go to the last one. Oh, okay. And got to get Yeah. The Cow Palace and get to have that whole experience of being immersed in that.

Speaker 1 (10m 20s): Well you should have seen the setup at the kink castle. It was quite amazing. I’m sure you’ve seen pictures. They had a, a event, which why not used to put on and kink would host the closing party every year. And I went three times, I think maybe it was only twice. And it was just an incredible place taking the tour. It was like, wow. I don’t know what I’m like, I don’t know what goes on here, but it must be very interesting.

It is. So how long have you two been together?

Speaker 2 (10m 56s): When? Just coming up on four years.

Speaker 1 (10m 58s): Oh, nice. Very, very nice. I understand you have a podcast. Tell me more about it if you would.

Speaker 2 (11m 6s): Great. Okay. So we do a podcast called The Kinky Cocktail Hour. And what it is, is we normally share a new, typically a new cocktail, Lady Petras a Somalia. So she makes a new cocktail. Wow. And then, and then we have a conversation either with each other or with a ster that we’re interviewing about some aspect of human sexuality. And our purpose is to really demystify sexuality, demystify kink. And yeah. The purpose of the podcast is to really enhance and expand our journey.

We started the podcast because we were having a, you know, hot sex scene every day and then having a cocktail afterwards to recover while we debriefed. Yeah. And in those debriefing conversations we were like really getting into each other’s hands. We were having a conversation about sex, about relationship, about kink, about agreements, about dynamics. You know, we were just really having these incredibly thoughtful, considered conversations about human dynamics and we thought, you know, we should just record this.

This is really good stuff. Yeah. And so we started to do that. We put an iPhone between us actually, and we started recording the conversations and then one day we were like, you know, we ordered just podcast this

Speaker 3 (12m 20s): Because someone else might be in the same position we were in. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (12m 23s): Sure. And, and so we, we started to do that and that’s how we came up with the Kinky Cocktail Hour. And we started right at the beginning of Covid. It wasn’t because of Covid, it was just coincidental. And because of that we podcast every day. And so Wow. We literally, we literally in three years have generated about 600 episodes.

Speaker 1 (12m 42s): That’s amazing. And

Speaker 2 (12m 43s): Yeah, it really is. We’ve had incredible conversations with incredible people all over the world. We’ve created community amongst gangsters. This, this whole conversation we’re having today about the SL came out of a conversation we had on the, on the Kinky cocktail hour with Mistress Diana Von Rig, who’s a Birmingham Ballbuster. And she shared

Speaker 1 (13m 2s): I that Birmingham Ballbuster. Wow. That’s three Bs.

Speaker 3 (13m 6s): It’s great. Yeah. She

Speaker 2 (13m 7s): Awesome. Yeah. She introduced us to it and that led us to a conversation with the Stroble brothers. And that led to us getting the opportunity to have slab as a distribution product in the, in the in North America.

Speaker 1 (13m 18s): What are you trying to accomplish with the podcast?

Speaker 2 (13m 22s): That’s a great question. You know, we really are,

Speaker 1 (13m 25s): I know I asked it.

Speaker 2 (13m 26s): Yeah,

Speaker 3 (13m 27s): Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13m 28s): No, we really are committed demystifying sexuality and demystifying, but that’s our entire agenda, you know, So like for example, yesterday we talked to a trans trans woman who’s going through sexual reassignment

Speaker 3 (13m 45s): Yeah. Still waiting for

Speaker 2 (13m 46s): Procedures. Yeah. You know? Right. And, and we had a conversation with her about her experience as a sexual creature. And, you know, we’re not trans and we’re not interested in being trans, but we’ve had conversations with people who are in the trans journey enough that when we talk to other trans folk, they’re very, very receptive because they get like, we’re not judging, we’re just sharing. Right. And, and we’re demystifying a part of the, the world for the trans community just in that aspect. Right.

It’s not, it’s not an agenda. We’re just there.

Speaker 3 (14m 19s): Well and one of the things that comes to mind too is as kings going from vanilla ex marriages and the stigma when you actually go out 24 7 as tpe couple people, judge right and left that you’re a gangster because obviously I have a caller, you know, I always have to do the joke cuz my caller actually has a double ring on it. So sometimes I’ll be in public and forget my hard collars on cuz it’s my life. Right.

And I’ll Sure

Speaker 1 (14m 50s): That gets some interesting looks.

Speaker 3 (14m 52s): Oh, I do. Yes. And sometimes I’ll spin it around just for the sake of not having to explain myself 5,000 times Sure. And say, Oh, I’m scaring the natives. I need to like turn it around. And the idea is, that’s a simple thing. But even with, you talk about extended family, we, we really as gangsters are struggling with the same things as any alternative sexual orientation, like dating or trans, that family will often ostracize or friends. But, you know, people don’t wanna know what you’re up to.

What. But let’s be honest, I don’t really wanna know what other people are up to in their bedrooms either. The idea is I’m just living myself, my life as a sexual creature. Free and authentic. Yes. But the reason that pot is so health is we put it out there in people’s faces and say, this is just what it is. We’re not weirdos. Right. We are in a loving dynamic, but we like kinky things. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1 (15m 46s): No, not at all. One thing you learn in this industry, in the adult entertainment industry is not to judge. And I’ve had such a variety of guests on adult site broker talk, and lately I’ve had more from the kink community. And I find it fascinating. And one thing I learned very early on, whether it be gay, whether it be trans, whether it be kink, don’t judge, just learn about it and you’ll better understand other people.

Speaker 2 (16m 18s): No, it’s true. There’s no right way to be. No. And there’s

Speaker 1 (16m 22s): No normal, there’s there’s no thing as normal. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (16m 24s): And what you find sexually arousing somebody else might not. And who cares what you find sexually arousing. If it doesn’t arou me, why should I care what you aroused by? It makes no sense. Right. So yeah. So there’s no, there’s no judgment. And, and that’s the, the beauty of the podcast is we really get to talk to the widest range of people that I’ve ever had the opportunity to talk to in my life. So we’ve talked to public figures, we’ve talked to Kingstons all over the world. Australia, England, Germany, France. We’ve talked to pro Ds, we’ve talked to sex workers, we’ve talked to advocates, we’ve talked to political activists, we’ve talked to

Speaker 3 (17m 2s): Media influencers,

Speaker 2 (17m 3s): Media influencers, physicians, you know, we’ve, we’ve had a at all in the world of sexuality. Right. All of it’s a conversation about human sexuality. Humans are, are particularly hung up on about two things or how hung up on sex and they hung up on money. So this isn’t a conversation about money, but it’s a conversation about sex. Right. And, you know, people have a purulent interest in sex, so they listen. Yeah. Cause we talk about sexy things. We talk about getting ass fucked and you know, anal April or we talked about, or pussy or whatever.

And, and they listen because, you know, they have imperial and interest. But also, Yeah. We hear from people who say, you know, you’ve really helped me. You’ve really helped me distill some aspect of my life or distinguish something that I was thinking about, or Yeah, you’re giving me courage or I really empathize with your story or, you know, we just, we get like literally thousands of messages from people who listen, who, who are, And we haven’t had one negative comment about the podcast. Not

Speaker 1 (18m 2s): One. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah. You mentioned guests. Who’s your favorite so far? Ooh,

Speaker 2 (18m 8s): That’s a great question. You know, we, like everyone we talk to is a favorite guest. We’ve talked to some really interesting people. Like, for example, one of my favorite guests is a public figure that we talk to a guy named Dan Savage who has a long political activist career. He’s

Speaker 1 (18m 23s): A man, I’ve seen him on Bill Mar numerous times. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (18m 26s): Exactly.

Speaker 3 (18m 27s): Love

Speaker 1 (18m 28s): Him.

Speaker 2 (18m 28s): Yeah, exactly. He was one of my favorite guests because I’ve, I bet looked up to him. I’ve valued his political point of view. I’ve supported him. And to actually talked to him and have him share his life with us was such a, And he lives up here and he lives here. It was such a wonderful experience.

Speaker 1 (18m 43s): Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18m 44s): To have a, a conversation with somebody of that magnitude.

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Huge.

Speaker 2 (18m 49s): He was one of my favorites.

Speaker 3 (18m 50s): And then, you know, there’s been a plethora of others, but one person that comes to mind for us, I think because we’re in a different phase of our life also, but this, this ster on fe life called decks. He’s been in the kink world for over 30 years as a leatherman, but, and has explored extensively the whips. Like he’s world renowned for his books that he’s written on single tail whipping and, and the procedures. And he has YouTube videos and, and one of the things that’s great about it is he’ll offer the information and training to anyone.

And he has, he’s very thorough and he worries about safety and he makes sure everyone is consensual. Right. But then on the same token, we happened on one of our podcasts to say something to him about, well, whatever your other fetishes. And he brought up wax and then he just lit up the microphone on wax. Like, I never knew wax could be this interesting. But he’s talking about his commitment to wax play in the sense of 40 pounds of wax being melted at certain temperature and all these things he does.

And where I, what I took from that was, yes, wax is interesting to me personally, it’s kind of messy, so you gotta have the space for it, la la But what I’m hearing him say is his complete authentic expression and, and just love for that. And it came through and just exuded to the microphone. And I was like, Sure. How can you not listen to this? This is amazing. Even if I don’t like why. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): It’s amazing. Anyone, anyone who’s passionate about something is a great guest.

Speaker 2 (20m 28s): Well, his passion is amazing. He’s passionate about sounding, he’s passionate about bust, which is foot whipping. He’s passionate about sensory play, he’s passionate about single tales, the leather, the leather community. He is passionate about single tales, he’s passionate about food play. So he’s got a lot of like kink passion and it, it comes through the microphone in a really beautiful way. And he shares so authentically. And

Speaker 3 (20m 53s): He, and he’s an elder where we, we found that when we interviewed some prominent people from the gay community, basically who were podcasters also and friends of ours. One of the complaints they were saying based on what happened during the AIDS epidemic was we lost this generation of elders.

Speaker 1 (21m 11s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21m 12s): Yeah. And then we have this,

Speaker 1 (21m 13s): I’m from San Francisco, I’m from San Francisco originally, so I live and I’m 60, 64, so I lived it. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (21m 20s): You absolutely. Yeah. And so there’s this gap stop and now we’ve got this new generation who may or may not appreciate where the, where everything’s, how we got here today basically. Sure. And it’s the same with kink. We feel there’s these elders that have this plethora of information, this, these gifts that, you know, we’ve gotta catch it while we can because they won’t be with us forever.

Speaker 1 (21m 45s): Yep. I agree. So how did you learn about SL in the first place?

Speaker 2 (21m 50s): Right. As I mentioned, we were talking to Mr. Diana, Diana van rig about ball busting. And she, she was like really telling us all about her ball busting. And she’s quite a vicious lady. And I asked her, Well, do you do anything that relates to pleasure? It was, is it all just pain? And she said, No, no, no, I do pleasure, but not the way you think of it. I use this tool called the Slur. It’s very intense. I don’t let them off the hook. And I didn’t quite understand it, so I asked her to talk more about it. And she shared that it’s this really powerful toy.

It’s got a, a strap that goes around your cock and it vibrates it really high intensity and it’s got six levels and she’s only ever been able to take only one person up to level four. Most people have an orgasm before level two. And she said, even it even makes flacid men come. I was quite, Yeah, I was quite surprised by that. But anyway, so that led us to a conversation about SL with the German manufacturers. Now they don’t speak English, so this was all happening through Google Translate.

Speaker 1 (22m 54s): Oh geez. Yeah. Good luck. And

Speaker 2 (22m 57s): Yeah, and they said, you know, actually what I wanted to do was have them on the podcast. Right. And they were like, Well, we can’t come on the podcast, but we don’t have an American distributor. Would you help us with that? And I was like, Oh,

Speaker 1 (23m 9s): Hello,

Speaker 2 (23m 10s): Hello. Yeah. You know, and so I thought about it and I was like, Well, what do we have? You have a country of, you know, 330 million people and it turns out that 70% of men at age 70 have a reptile dysfunction. So there’s an opportunity here.

Speaker 1 (23m 25s): Oh geez. Oh geez. Something to look forward to in six years. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 2 (23m 30s): Right. So yeah, so that just got us interested. So we started having a conversation with him and one thing led to another and we arranged an agreement to be their distributors and that’s how it happened.

Speaker 1 (23m 41s): So tell me what’s happened since that point.

Speaker 2 (23m 44s): Okay, well,

Speaker 3 (23m 46s): Well you should really, I think it’s important to share the original story of how Michael came upon this, the origin. That’s what makes it important.

Speaker 2 (23m 55s): Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I’ll tell you the origin story. So great. Michael and his brother Sandra are master roofers in Germany. And so there’re contractors, essentially,

Speaker 1 (24m 5s): They’re roofers. They, they, they do roofs, they

Speaker 2 (24m 8s): Do roofs, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 (24m 9s): Okie do.

Speaker 2 (24m 11s): And they were fucking around with power tools holding them up to their decks. And he was like, Well, this is

Speaker 1 (24m 16s): Kind what could possibly go. I

Speaker 3 (24m 19s): Mean, just feeling the vibration and things like that, you know,

Speaker 1 (24m 22s): I was, I was just, I was just kind of imagining

Speaker 3 (24m 26s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (24m 26s): We were too. People saw or something, you know.

Speaker 2 (24m 29s): Well actually what he did was he was like, Well this is kind of a cool vibration. I like the way it feels. So he went down into his workshop and he attached a piece of re that he had to a reciprocating saw and scared.

Speaker 3 (24m 46s): I know,

Speaker 2 (24m 46s): I know. He brought that to his cock and he wasn’t sure how it was gonna feel and he was, or

Speaker 3 (24m 51s): What would

Speaker 2 (24m 51s): Happen Oh, what would happen. But he was surprised. It actually gave him an orgasm and it was quite gentle. And so he was like, Huh, I’m gonna fig fiddle around with this. So he spent the next three years playing with materials and higher design Yeah. Designs and, and hiring a, a product specialist and Sure. You know, sourcing materials and, and eventually manufacturing this thing, getting a bank loan and all of that. And then, and then he realized like, you need to do, do some research to find the right power tool because you can, with something like this, and considering where you’re putting it, you want something that’s not too powerful.

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): Ah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (25m 29s): You don’t wanna just go down to Home Depot.

Speaker 2 (25m 31s): Yeah. You don’t wanna go

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): To Home Depot. It sounds like, it sounds like it was only a few inches away from being a UN and a Darwin all at once.

Speaker 2 (25m 38s): Yeah, I’m not even sure. A few inches. But anyway.

Speaker 1 (25m 41s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 42s): So, so you spent the next three years like sourcing the machine, sourcing the materials, getting it manufactured and so on. And what he came up with is a tool called a multi tool, which is a originally designed to like be a, so like sander or something. But he found one that was, you know, a 12 vol version. And we, we worked out an agreement with the factory and now we have a tool that it, So the tool itself is really incredibly powerful.

It really, like if, if you think of it like this Bruce, like the Hitachi tops out at around 6,000 RPMs.

Speaker 1 (26m 19s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (26m 20s): So this has six levels, and they’re not click over levels. It’s like a rta. So you can just roll ’em up from one to six. It goes up to 18,000 RPMs from five. So it starts about as high as a Hitachi begins or ends. So Hitachi stops at six, the starts at five, and it goes up to 18, 18,000 RPMs. Damn. And, and the truth is, the truth is that you don’t need to go to 18,000 RPMs because you have such an amazing experience. You know, what attracted us to the machine is that men don’t have the history of vibrational sexual stimulation.

They just don’t using

Speaker 3 (26m 59s): A woman’s sex toy.

Speaker 2 (27m 0s): Yeah. I mean you can hold, you can hold a Hitachi against your cop. It’s not the same thing as having a 360 up and down experience. This tool offers a, a superior vibrational experience for men compared to anything they’ve ever done. Yeah. And what’s interesting about it is that there are two sets of nerves in the penis. You have the nerve that is responsible for erection, and then you have the nerve that’s responsible for ejaculation. Okay. And the ejaculation nerve lives near the head of your penis called the gland.

And the erection nerves live near the base of your penis. And with this vibrational tool, you can actually stimulate both. You can go up and down and rest here and go up there and rest there and go up and down. And it causes the erection to be really profound. Like you have intense, you have a very engorged penis as a result of it. Sure. Which brings, which brings your ejaculation nerves right to the surface. And you know, very often men are coming like in 60 seconds.

It’s really impressive. And more importantly, more importantly, men who can’t get an erection are coming because it’s a powerful tool that can actually access the nerves that live near the glance. Yeah. Even if you don’t have an erection, which ordinarily is required to bring the nerves to the surface. Sure. So when you consider that 40% of men at age 40 have erectile dysfunction and 50 at age 50 and 70 at age 70 and so on,

Speaker 1 (28m 32s): Guess I’m lucky.

Speaker 2 (28m 34s): Yeah. There’s an opportunity, there’s an opportunity to actually make a difference in men’s sex lives. And more importantly Yes. There’s a particular disorder in erectile dysfunction called ejaculation disorder. Okay. And the medical community currently considers it untreatable. Like you can’t actually help somebody who can’t have an ejaculation. Well this tool could actually change that. That’s awesome. So it really is awesome. And so, you know, we’re trying to get medical doctors engaged in doing some clinical research we have, which is always

Speaker 3 (29m 2s): How hard because it’s a sex

Speaker 2 (29m 4s): Toy. It’s a sex toy. Right. So, so we’re, we’re we’re working on that. Yeah. And, but that’s like, you know, so when you say what’s come, what’s happened since then? So what’s happened since then is we’ve taken a shipment of SLS from Germany, we’ve started marketing and promoting the products, signing up affiliates and selling, you know, e-commerce wise selling product out into the world. Yeah. And on a gradient, we’re introducing SLU to the North American continent.

Speaker 1 (29m 32s): That’s awesome. And I, I assume the early adopters have mainly been men with erectile dysfunction.

Speaker 2 (29m 39s): No, that’s, that’s actually, that’s actually not true. Early adopters are the ProAm community because they can use it as an edging tool, as a forced orgasm tool, as a, a tool to make somebody come when they are, are told not to come. Interesting. So the pro, the ProAm community digs it. That’s why the Pro-ams are all affiliates because they love it and they make their clients get it and then they charge them to use it, you know?

Speaker 1 (30m 5s): Oh yes. Dominate em would dominate, dominate that what we do a regular client card with the whole fin dom thing. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (30m 14s): You do that too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): I’m starting, I’m starting to understand how fin do works. So that sounds like a classic case

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): Potentially. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 22s): Yeah. So tell me about your affiliate program. Why don’t you gimme some details? Okay, good. And why people should join it.

Speaker 2 (30m 30s): Okay, great. Thank you. So the affiliate program can be, can be accessed at our website, which is slab usa.com. There’s a link for the individual affiliate program there. You can click on the menu item, it’ll take you to the page, you can register to be an affiliate there. The reason you would do it is because every time somebody uses your unique code discount code or your unique code, you earn 20%, which is not bad. Ah, the PR sells for $235.

So that’s a healthy chunk of change. So if you just had, if you just had five people do it in your, in your discount code, you get effectively get a SL for free because you get 20% off. So that’s the reason to do it. And then we will give you unique discount codes to promote and so forth. So, Okay. It makes the affiliate program worthwhile.

Speaker 1 (31m 23s): Hmm. Interesting. What new attachments are you gonna be having for sl?

Speaker 2 (31m 28s): So, that’s a great question too. You know, Michael, who’s the inventor, has been working on a few things. Like one of them is a hands free stand, so you can just attach it and just let it do its thing, which is great because it’s, it’s not a light tool, it’s a little bit heavy because it’s a power tool. One of them is a universal adapter, so you can actually attach any insertable object to it, so it could become something that you can use with women or with, you know, as play or whatever.

Speaker 1 (31m 59s): That’s true.

Speaker 2 (32m 0s): And then the last thing he’s working on, as far as I know right now is a device that will allow prostate stimulation, electrical stimulation while you’re using the SL on the penis. So you actually get that, that power of like controlled,

Speaker 1 (32m 18s): The whole prostate stimulation thing has gotten very big, hasn’t it?

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): It has, yeah. I mean, you know, we have three sex organs. We have our cock, our balls, and our prostate. Those are our three sex organs. And most men don’t really think about their prostate as a sex organ, but it absolutely is. Yeah. And, you know, having your prostate attended to by a loving partner is probably one of the most incredible sexual experiences you’ll ever have.

Speaker 1 (32m 45s): One thing I I I need to confirm about the sl. It, does it just work on the penis or does it also work on the balls?

Speaker 2 (32m 54s): You can put it anywhere. It’s a strap. Right? The words SL comes from the acronym of Sling and Rub. So you can wrap it around anything,

Speaker 3 (33m 3s): But you don’t wanna, it should never be like, form fitting. It’s not tight. Yeah. You should always have a finger with, in the, in the sling itself. Sure. Because the whole point is the vibration not to have it strapped down, jerking it around. That’s

Speaker 2 (33m 19s): Not strap it too tight on anything that’s gonna cause skin abrasion, which is no fun. So we don’t want that

Speaker 1 (33m 24s): Tell there. It’s not.

Speaker 2 (33m 26s): No, it’s not. So you want it loose, but you also wanna use a lot of silicon lube because the lube lasts. You can use water base, but it Sure. But

Speaker 3 (33m 33s): The silicon seems to last longer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33m 35s): And so we actually ship it with Silicon lube as well.

Speaker 1 (33m 38s): Oh, that’s nice. That’s nice. How do most people use it? Do they just put it around their penis?

Speaker 2 (33m 45s): Yes. Most people, most people who have a partner, their partner runs it. Right. So Lady Petri uses it on me, for example, and, and she, she slides it up and down the penis and she rested the bottom and rest at the top until she’s happy with the results.

Speaker 3 (34m 3s): I’ll, I’ll just give you from my perspective, because he’s leaning back, enjoying it while I’m doing this. One of the things that I was taken of when we were considering distributorship here and, and I had made comments before that there weren’t any real selection for men on specific men toys. There were things like the flashlight, well, the guy has to then manually do it, or his partner has to manually do it. Okay. And then there’s like POV kind of computer generated flashlight type things.

Okay. Right. But this was the first thing that was very set up for men specifically. And when I was using it, I knew it would be similar to my experience with clitoral stimulation, but I had no idea he’s aroused when we play. So I get that, I’ve seen it, I know it happens, but with this unit, when I kept it at the base, the actual arousal state of the penis, the girth that happened was pretty breathtaking.

Wow. And as a woman, you know, everyone talks about having the big cock and 12, 15, 20 inches long. And let’s be honest, most women do

Speaker 1 (35m 14s): Not. That would be, that would, that would give me a bad back. I wouldn’t want that.

Speaker 3 (35m 17s): Well, and most women, quite frankly, I mean, Liz, people can be size hounds, but the idea is no one wants a bruised uterus. So

Speaker 1 (35m 25s): Yes. And I live in,

Speaker 3 (35m 26s): It’s never that cool because there’s only six inches in there and it either goes the right or the left, and you either move other body parts to get it all the way up there. Yeah. But what women think when women see the girth. Yeah. Oh my god, every woman I know who sees girth doesn’t matter. It can’t be a button. But if it’s girthy, they’re like, Oh shit. Because if you think about it, women’s other sex organ, the GPO is only a few inches inside. And so it’s the girth that is hitting that G spot.

Speaker 2 (35m 58s): Yeah. When she had that on me that my, my cock was so engorged. It

Speaker 3 (36m 2s): Was, it was huge. I’ve never seen it get that big.

Speaker 2 (36m 4s): Yeah. And it’s just not just my experience, you know, Dirk Hooper, who’s a publicist in the US who does a lot of art, and he’s a kinky sort of character. He, he recently reviewed the slab and in his review he notes that he got that in Gorge too. But it didn’t just wasn’t just, then the next time he had sex, he got equally as en gorge. So it carried over. Wow. So there was, there was a carryover effect on his ability to respond to that stimulation.

Speaker 3 (36m 30s): Yeah. And then, and you know, then of course, I, I was curious, I don’t have a penis, so I’m playing with his penis. So I’m engorging the base. And so then I move up to the middle and I watch it continue to en gorge. Wow. And then I’m like devious. And I think to myself, I’m gonna make him come and I go right up to the glands and there you go. It’s just happening. There’s like, No, that’s cool. And, and because I’m a switch, I’m dominant to others beyond Saffer. I thought, what wouldn’t this be crazy if I just said as I brought it up now you’re not allowed to come.

Okay. Could you imagine the torture of that moment? Just

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): I can, Yes. Yeah. Don’t want to, but I can. I don’t know. I just like, pleasure. What can I say? I’m, I’m, I’m, I guess I’m, Anyway, you’re Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, it’s, it’s, it’s fascinating. It’s def it’s definitely fascinating. Hey, you’re new in the whole Pleasure Products game. How have you found the industry and the community so far?

Speaker 2 (37m 39s): It’s interesting, you know, we’re learning little by little about how this all works and we’re kind of outliers because we are so new at it. Right. And so, you know, we’re dealing with what any new business deals with which is breaking into a, an industry. We’ve had some resistance from certain carriers, we’ve had some acceptance from others, you know, so some of the, the big stores like 6, 6 5 leather and the, the stockroom are interested in carrying sl and they will I be Yeah.

Yeah. Others, others aren’t. And so, you know, it’s, it’s hard to say. We’re still so new at it that we haven’t really experienced the vagaries of distributing a product in the US and we’ve, we’ve not encountered, say, distributors for example. Right, Right. So, you know, when that comes up, it’s gonna be an interesting conversation. So right now we’re,

Speaker 1 (38m 37s): So you’re looking, so you’re looking for distributors to work with you?

Speaker 2 (38m 41s): Not necessarily. What we’re interested in is finding parallel products to co-market, you know, so we’re working with, we’re working with a company that that makes a woman’s seated saddle style sex toy to be a partner of ours. And hopefully that’ll come together, in which case it’ll sort of launch us into a different category of distribution. You know, the, the challenges that we have, because it’s a new product to the United States is, and the factory for the machine is in China.

Speaker 3 (39m 14s): And,

Speaker 1 (39m 15s): But of course it’s in China, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39m 18s): And, and you know, it’s in Shanghai and of course Shanghai is largely shut down and the, the, the, of course supply chain mechanics are really fucked up from Covid, but now double fucked up from the war in Ukraine. Yep.

Speaker 1 (39m 32s): So,

Speaker 2 (39m 32s): You know, so we’ve got some considerations there to deal with. So we’re just dealing with things we’ve never had to consider because up until now we’ve been, you know, podcasters and, and, and you know, we’ve just enjoyed playing with each other. Now we’re suddenly, you know, teaching at Dom Con and we’re invited to speak on platforms like yours. And we’re sort of introducing ourselves as gangsters with this product to the community. And in some cases wonderful receptivity and in some cases a little bit of suspicion and pushback.

Speaker 1 (40m 6s): Yeah. I find this industry, unfortunately, you have to be around a while before you’re accepted in some ways. And I’ve been in it for over 20 years. In some ways I still don’t feel completely accepted, unfortunately, because it’s very cliquey.

Speaker 2 (40m 21s): Yeah,

Speaker 3 (40m 22s): Yeah. I think also I notice even if you just go through trade shows as a female, I, I notice it’s very female-centric in the sense of the kind of products that are available, the plethora of products available. True. That’s true. And so when you come up with a man’s toy, it’s like, well, come on. I mean that, you get a little pushback in that area, but what makes this different is this really is one of the first, it’s not a, it’s not a female toy that has been made to fit for men.

It’s actually a man’s man’s toy. Like guys would go, Ger yeah. This is my toy. You know, that kinda thing. And I think sometimes the industry is like, well, we want it to be sexy and Yeah. The mirror and it needs to be this, Well, I don’t know, we

Speaker 2 (41m 11s): Talk to, maybe not, we talk to a woman who is theoretically a big shot in the sex toy community and she was very standoffish. She didn’t even wanna,

Speaker 3 (41m 21s): Like, it wasn’t sexy enough, it wasn’t enough appeal for women. And I was like, this is made for men, not for women.

Speaker 2 (41m 27s): Exactly. It’s gonna a hard, it’s not gonna be easy, You know,

Speaker 1 (41m 30s): Are you gonna, I’m sorry? Are you gonna go to the, to any of the industry, the pleasure products, industry event? We

Speaker 2 (41m 39s): Will, yeah. I mean, it’s early days for us and we don’t have a huge budget for this. We need to see movement. Yeah. So it’s gonna, we’re sort of grass, we’re sort of grassroot bootstrapping it.

Speaker 1 (41m 49s): Right.

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): And, and we’re just trying to see if we can create a traction of the device on its own. And once we get to a certain point, e-commerce is gonna drive our conversation for the most part.

Speaker 3 (41m 59s): I think also too, the partnerships we’re building with some of these other companies who may choose to align with us as well as we’ve got the, the new lube company that has another product with itself that is very specific to

Speaker 2 (42m 13s): Ours. Yeah. So that’s an interesting company. They’re called Pulse and they manufactured, you know, they’ve, they’re actually an 8 million company. They manufacture a very specific set of lubes and a lube distribution device. Right. And their target audience are women of a certain age. Right. So who are the women of a certain age? She’s a 50 plus year old woman who are menopausal Yeah. Or post-menopausal. Right. And now they have access to a quick lube distribution

Speaker 3 (42m 41s): Oh, warmed. Warmed. Where you place your hand under and dispenses the perfect amount of lube

Speaker 2 (42m 46s): So you don’t need anything. Right, Right. And, and so like that’s their target market and and guess who, guess who they have as partners. Well they have men of a certain age.

Speaker 1 (42m 55s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (42m 56s): So, so it’s a great

Speaker 1 (42m 57s): Opportunity who might have, who might have problems. Yeah. Who

Speaker 2 (42m 59s): Might have some. Exactly. Got it. So, so partnering with companies like that, So we’re taking a more of a holistic look at it. We’re not sort of like, like exclusively focused on the sex toy industry part. We’re also looking at the erectile dysfunction industry part. Right. And we believe that we can tackle this from both sides. So we can, we can get early adopters like pro-ams to be affiliates and sell it. We can get, you know, men who discover us through podcasts like this to buy it directly from us and we can partner with companies that manufacture similar sex toys and we can partner with medically oriented companies that potentially reach into the market differently.

Yeah. And we’re trying to get medical research undergoing and

Speaker 3 (43m 43s): Running workshops where we can actually in smaller, in that community space, demonstrate, you know, Yeah. Right. I can bring a submissive to demonstrate to other people how they can use this, how they can, you know, you could, you could think about being able to highlight this in multiple ways. Spark up the marriage, spark up a relationship, dominate it, a relationship, what have you. Yeah. But being able to show them cuz they just, they’ve never been exposed to something like this. So that’s part of the thing.

Speaker 2 (44m 10s): Yeah. Yes. It’s very cool.

Speaker 1 (44m 12s): Yeah, indeed. Well, it still might not be a bad idea to go to the January shows AVN and, and Ex and there’s also an interesting show in Hong Kong next month. Oh, interesting. And then in November it’s strictly B2B and Macau actually worked with that guy at one time or another. We can discuss it. Anyway. So where else is SL being sold now?

Speaker 2 (44m 39s): So we have patent protection in eight countries, so in the United States and Canada, North America. We also are selling it in Europe at, with the original slab store. And they are in Great Britain, Germany, France, Switzerland, Belgium, Holland and Italy.

Speaker 3 (44m 60s): And there, and the goal is with Michael is to create a global market.

Speaker 2 (45m 4s): Yeah. Our, our intention is to do that over, over time.

Speaker 1 (45m 7s): Of course. How is it doing in the other international markets?

Speaker 2 (45m 12s): Well, he only started selling about, you know, in 2020 and he originally started right. Selling just the attachment and then gradually sort of got a machine. And so really it’s only been about a year that he’s been selling and he’s probably, he’s probably sold about, you know, 1500 units since he started. Okay.

Speaker 3 (45m 31s): He doesn’t, he passively sells.

Speaker 2 (45m 33s): He, he’s very passive. We’re trying to be a little more forward thinking about it and, you know, Yeah. We’re trying to take a bigger picture look and we’re trying to build a structure, a system and a structure for selling that we can then turn around and bring to his other countries in Europe. So our intention is to develop an infrastructure of selling here in the United States and Canada, and then take it to Germany and to Great Britain and then expand out to Holland, you know, France and so forth.

Speaker 1 (46m 2s): So do you have those other markets as well?

Speaker 2 (46m 4s): Yeah, so we’re, we, you know, he’s our partner, so we aren’t just his distributor. He actually is a, a shareholder in our company and Okay. He’s, he’s part of now together we’ve

Speaker 3 (46m 16s): Aligned

Speaker 2 (46m 17s): Yeah. We’ve aligned to bring, you know, our business model concepts to his distribution systems in Europe.

Speaker 3 (46m 26s): Interesting. That leads him available to continue to invent new, new product. Right,

Speaker 1 (46m 31s): Right. Which is his role. Definitely. And he’s obviously done a great job. That’s fantastic. This sounds like a really exciting ground floored thing for you.

Speaker 2 (46m 40s): It is. I’m excited about it. I think it’s lovely. It’s wonderful. It’s completely aligned with who we are as sexual

Speaker 3 (46m 46s): Creatures. Yeah. And I just think if you could provide an opportunity for some man or someone with male parts to have an experience like this, why not? Yeah, why not?

Speaker 1 (46m 58s): Well, especially, especially if they, they can’t get erect or they can’t come. That’s, But even if, what a gift,

Speaker 2 (47m 6s): I can tell you Bruce, I’ve, I’m 63, right. I have never had a sexual experience like that. Ever. Wow. It’s my, it’s literally mind blowing.

Speaker 3 (47m 15s): And I think, you know, the idea with Covid that woke a lot of us up to who, and not necessarily us as much as people that were alone, but people were isolated. And to be able to have a toy where you could be, be either privately playing or sexting and playing or video zooming or have a dominant someplace else or what have you, whatever you make up. Yeah. That’s a new concept for men other than just the good old hand.

Speaker 1 (47m 43s): Sure. Oh yeah. The hand has its limitations. There’s no two ways about it. Let’s face it,

Speaker 2 (47m 49s): Opposable thumbs,

Speaker 3 (47m 51s): I mean the hand does because this is why women love the Hitachi and this is why I love the Hitachi.

Speaker 1 (47m 56s): Yeah, yeah. I’m all thumbs Actually, I understand you have a discount code for our listeners. Why don’t you We do tell. Tell them what it is.

Speaker 2 (48m 4s): Yeah. We’re giving you your listeners a $20 discount. Nice. They can use the code intro 20 when they check out@sl-usa.com.

Speaker 1 (48m 15s): Beautiful. Well, anyone out there who has gotten as enthralled by this as I have during our interview should definitely check it out. Saffer Master and Lady Petra, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon so we can get an update.

Speaker 2 (48m 38s): Great. Thank you so much for having that. It’s been a real

Speaker 3 (48m 40s): Pleasure. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (48m 42s): Pleasure was all mine. My broker tip today is part 10 of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about what information to give a potential buyer and what determines the value of a site. We’ll continue that today. If a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic, direct traffic, search engine traffic and review traffic are the most valuable.

Tube traffic is the least valuable. Is the traffic reliable and sustainable? What is the traffic history? In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as to profit. And the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website? Is the domain.com or something else? Dot com is still king. How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site?

That is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it? And how much time would be involved? What’s the lifetime value of a customer on the site Next week, how to buy a website. And next week we’ll be speaking with Jerry from Baldo. And that’s it for this week’s adult site broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests, SafferMaster and Lady Petra from Slubb USA.

Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Dan Hogue of Pornstar Platinum and Trans Erotica.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale and adult site broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a unique network of pay sites. The network includes six pay sites of many different stripes, a gay cause play, bareback and fetish site, a straight pegging light, fdo Boy, girl, and Penny host fetish site, a bi threesome site, a queer hot sex site, a hardcore BDSM and bonded site.

And finally, a trans female site. There’s also a very active affiliate program with Nats as its backend through over a decade of independently funding, shooting, and selling niche content. They’ve funded these six pay sites, found eager, ethical, and competent directors to run them and put content on them, as well as having an affiliate program. Most of the content is exclusive with an influx of cash in a dedicated team to help grow the brand. There’s a lot of opportunity, only 1.6 million.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Dan Ho, Director of Operations at Porn Star Platinum and Trans erotica. He’s also co-founder of Razor Edge Talent. Dan, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk. Happy

Speaker 2 (2m 40s): To be with you,

Speaker 1 (2m 41s): Bruce. Dan, it’s always a pleasure. Now, Dan started in 1998 in the amateur market with his then wife and had the first swinging couple site on the internet. He morphed this into starting a CAM network with other amateurs, and then he rolled that into one of the top cam companies, Cam Z I remember it, Walden, which specialized in cam shows for amateurs and porn stars to broadcast shows to their member areas. Now, Dan spent 15 years in the CAM business and won Best Live cam site from Ex Biz, as well as an industry pioneer award for innovations and live cams.

Now, Dan is now director of operations at Porn Star Platinum and Trans, which I said he’s also heavily involved in channels management for porn stars. After 23 years in the business, Dan is still actively involved in the industry and still loving every minute of it. Hey, let’s start there, Dan. You still love every minute of it.

Speaker 3 (3m 37s): Absolutely. The good and the bad. There’s a, there’s a fair amount of, of both when you’re dealing directly, I, not only with owners, program owners, but talent and trying to coordinate with talent and make it all come together on the production side as well as the business side. So I get a pretty good mix of, of all of it, and sure, it’s a lot of fun, but it’s challenging. It’s challenging and it keeps me motivated.

Speaker 1 (4m 6s): So, yeah, I mean, and, and it’s interesting because you, you have such a well rounded amount of experience in the adult industry, starting with an amateur swing site and then then cams, and now you’re in the management end. I really don’t know anybody who has as much experience in the industry really

Speaker 3 (4m 30s): Well diversified. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 1 (4m 33s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (4m 33s): Right. Kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, as they say.

Speaker 1 (4m 38s): Oh, I wouldn’t say that.

Speaker 3 (4m 39s): You know, I, you know, I’ve had, I’ve, I’ve done a lot with, you know, on the business end as well as from working with directly with performers now a lot. Sure. I see from their perspective as well. So it’s, yeah, I have a pretty good, you know, working knowledge of what it takes on the back end to run a successful program, as well as how to be successful as a performer and help them be more successful and how the two intertwine to help both the companies that they, they work with and for and, and help how those companies can then help them help the other performers as well succeed.


Speaker 1 (5m 22s): Yeah. Now talk about your journey in adult and where it’s taken you.

Speaker 3 (5m 26s): Oh, wow. From the beginning, obviously we got into it for fun. We got into it Yeah. Because of our lifestyle. Sure. It was a way, you know, I think I told this story once before where we were, we had cut and tired of kind of hitting on our friends who were not necessarily in the lifestyle. So we went online and we met this girl and her and her husband, and she happened to be, and we hit it off and we went back to their hotel room at a, after meeting at a, a swing club in Kansas City.

Yeah. She came up, she, she just said, Hey, would you like to take pictures for our website? And we’re like, Sure. And it was a great icebreaker, and it was the, it was a great, it was just, Yeah. And it gave us something to do and it was fun. And you know, the next thing you know, we’re all, we’re having a good time. We’re, you know, having sex and taking pictures and having a, you know, it just, and a light bulb went off in my head, said, We gotta do this. This is fun. And so we kind of grew from there. And then, you know, the, the bad end of it is you get outed eventually and, and our children being at an age where they wouldn’t understand.

So obviously we moved away from Kansas, Conservative Kansas to Florida, and we kind of changed paths from being our, our own being stars of our own, or being performers of our own, excuse me. And then into more of helping others be successful, managing their websites, hosting them for free. We started a cam network traffic and things like that. So we started getting and transferring more into the service side.

Speaker 1 (7m 8s): Yeah. Then it took you to, to Cam Z, which was quite a success.

Speaker 3 (7m 12s): It was, and it was a lot of fun, I gotta tell you that, especially the early years of, of Cams z that was, that was a blast of building it. And I, you know, I always loved the process of building and, and helping others. And it, you know, it was, in the beginning we were, you know, there was a lot of member area traffic from the amateurs themselves, but they were getting siphoned from other cam networks, and we developed one where we gave back to the performers and they would get the majority of the traffic as well.

They should, during their time as doing their shows. And we would sell those shows to other companies who didn’t have the luxury of having a live performance, you know, But, and then we would actually even pay the performers additional revenue in addition to the traffic that they got. So it’s a really good model for a long time until the tubes came out and started, you know, doing what they did to the, to the members areas.

Speaker 1 (8m 13s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (8m 14s): The amateur market. We all know what they did. What, what happened there. So

Speaker 1 (8m 18s): You were in Cams for a long time. Any itch to get back into it?

Speaker 3 (8m 22s): I always have, you know, it, it’s always been the passion. It’s where my, it, it is where my heart actually lies in, in Live Cam. But at the same time, I really like, and, and I can give the pointers to my, to the talent that I I help today with, you know, whether it be advice on their only fans and or their channels to do Live cam, that the interaction is so important and it really does make a difference.

Speaker 1 (8m 58s): Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, everything you’ve always done has been very performer focused. Why is that?

Speaker 3 (9m 6s): The, they’re the cog and the wheel that, you know, they’re the engine, right? Yeah. Everybody says the content is king. Right. And well, without performers you don’t have content. Sure. And I, it, they’re the most fun, you know, like if you think back the parties of old and you’ve been around long enough to know, you know, it was always the amateurs having fun. It was always the, the porn stars or the amateurs that were the life of the party and what made this industry great.

I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s fun to hang around and network with the business guys and the guys hanging out and stuff like that. But realistically we go to shows not only to do business, but to have fun. Yeah. And ever since the performers and the amateurs were pretty much chased out of this business. It’s not as fun at shows, you know, it is much more business oriented, but that’s not necessarily always a bad thing when it comes to business in general, you know? But there is a lot less fun at shows.

Speaker 1 (10m 8s): Yeah. You can go to shows now, and if you didn’t know better, you would swear it’s an insurance convention or something like that,

Speaker 3 (10m 17s): Right? Yeah, yeah. Or a sausage fest. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (10m 22s): I was thinking that. I was absolutely, You were thinking that too. It’s a hundred percent a sausage fest. Oh, 99%, let’s say. So maybe you can tell us what’s happened since we last spoke.

Speaker 3 (10m 36s): Oh, quite a bit. I, I did get divorced. I was married for a little over a year to a performer and Right. You know, so that didn’t work out. And I followed for divorce and, you know, just, it been super, super busy with expanding as well as the, the, you know, going through some changes over at Porn Star Platinum and trans erotica. We took on Crush Girls as well, which is kind of the OC modelings version of Porn Star Platinum.

And I have taken over production now for those, for those three, primarily Transa and Porn Star Platinum, as well as expanded into the, you know, more and more into the channels management and fan site, you know, consulting

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): Right. Now. Tell me more about Porn Star Platinum and Transa. What are their strengths?

Speaker 3 (11m 37s): Well, right now, yeah, we are kind of going through a lot of changes and we’re kind of going with the flow where we were relying strictly on solo girl sites. We would build the sites around there around say, a Lower Jensen know a Clear Clouds, Lea Falcon and others. We would rely on them to come for us for updates and come to us for updates and, and, and update the sites. It got, with the proliferation of the fan sites and the channels where the girls are making so much money that sure, they really didn’t care about the, the ancillary revenue anymore of a website.

And they didn’t, they don’t really need the content because now that they’ve been doing fan sites for so long, they’ve become really good at creating their own content. Yeah. Back in the day when we were doing trade content, because we are a trade content company, it was very important for them to have that content. So they, it was, it was, we became a necessary, necessary evil, so to speak, that they come to us for trade content, We build a site that gets a little bit of ancillary revenue from it, from the, what their site will generate.

At the same time they get quality professionally shot content that they can use on their channels, on their porn hub, on their only fans, what, whatever their loyal fans, whatever fan site or, or channels that they chose to go on. And so it was, it was a valuable service. We provide them not only professionally shot raw content, but they also get the edited version as well. So we have a cost saving factor, a time saving factor as well as a quality of content.

Yeah. But now they’ve become more and more so we’ve had to adjust with the times. We are now doing some pay trade, we are doing more pay trade content where we offer some revenue as well as the content the same way we did back when we were just trade. You know, they get the raw, they get the edited version of the content as well as a few bucks in their pocket to go along with it. And then sometimes if we, if they want a specific mail and we design the content around too, that we, we produce content that sells well for them.

Yes. Because in the reality is if it sells well for them, it’s probably gonna sell well for us as well. That is a little, that’s a change recently that both trans erotica and porn star platinum have gone through as far as production. So we do, we do offer paid trades now.

Speaker 1 (14m 10s): So with the types of sites out there, like only fans, do you find that there’s, there’s a shortage of models to work with?

Speaker 3 (14m 20s): No, Proliferation is, it’s incredible the amount of girls now when it comes to like porn star platinum, for instance, it is named porn star platinum, not creator Platinum. Right.

Speaker 1 (14m 34s): So

Speaker 3 (14m 34s): We kind of, we’re kind of limited on we, we need porn stars. Yeah. We need people who, who are proud to call themselves porn stars who’ve earned that. And you know, like creators, there’s some wonderful creators who, sure, in my eyes, natural porn stars, they live the lifestyle. They beautiful. They’re, they know how to perform just kill a scene. And however, they’re just, they don’t consider them porn stars. They don’t consider themselves porn stars.

And maybe our fans don’t either, but because they’re creators, but they’re pretty well known. So we just, you know, for, in that realm, I think it’s a little bit of a challenge when it comes to transa. There are so many new stars, so many beautiful women that are popping up. You know, the expansion of female to male trans too is really been an expanding market now and evolving one as well. So, you know, Transa, there’s a lot of fantastic new performers coming on, coming on the scene.

And we certainly are one to reach out to those who are looking to, to grow their brand and to increase their exposure and to get the content. So yeah, there’s no, there’s certainly no shortage of people to work with on either side and there. And not to, sorry, you know, not to be longwinded or anything, but even I was talking with Sandra from OC modeling wonderful agency and she even, you know, cuz I was mentioning that, hey, we’re gonna go to this paid trade stuff.

How do we work? How does that work with you agents? Oh, we have a list. And I’m like, Oh, you have a list. Yeah, we have girls or n males that do paid trade and there’s, here’s a rate sheet for their paid trades, so we can now go to the agencies for these paid trades. Great. Yeah. Makes it easier.

Speaker 1 (16m 36s): Do you think that the term porn star is overused in the industry?

Speaker 3 (16m 42s): No, not really.

Speaker 1 (16m 44s): I mean, do you think, do you think some people who aren’t necessarily, do you think that that too many people who aren’t necessarily porn stars use it?

Speaker 3 (16m 52s): Look, if you’re cre in my opinion, if you’re a creator and you have fans, you’re a porn star in my eyes. Okay. You know, but I don’t, you know, I work for the company. I, I don’t, you know, I don’t own it. I, you know, I, I’m, at the end of the day, I’m an employee of porn star platinum and, you know, if, if their definition of porn star does it, it, it may or may not match what my definition of porn star is.

Speaker 1 (17m 19s): This is true. But

Speaker 3 (17m 20s): In the, in the end, what our fans want is equality quality content. So there are times when I find creators as, as defined by my, my rules that I was handed. You know, And, and I would say that no, they’re, they’re definitely porn stars. They have followers that would shadow many porn stars, you know? And so in my eyes that’s, you know, know where the, where the metal meets the, or the rubber meets the road as they say.

Speaker 1 (17m 55s): Okay. So how do you feel about the push from government and organizations pushing for accountability and content verification now the third party op upload sites are responding.

Speaker 3 (18m 9s): Yeah, I think they, you know, it’s kind of what we’ve done in this industry throughout my tenure in it is the mistakes of a few costs. Tremendous hassle for the many. And I think this is another example, and it’s a reaction from those mistakes of a few that has now caused many of us to jump through a bunch of hoops now. Yeah. It is a logical fix and insurance policy that is, you know, the credit cards feel that it’s necessary in order to protect their brands, to make us accountable and, and to police, since we didn’t police ourselves in the beginning, you know, that, or with the companies that made these errors that caused this steam role effect.

You know, we have now since we didn’t police ourselves, which we’re normally we’re really good at, but we did the same thing with credit cards. You know, when people were slamming credit cards and, you know, chasing down 25% chargeback ratios, you know, it wasn’t before, it wasn’t long before the credit card companies came back and said, Okay, you now have, if you get over 5% or two and a half percent chargebacks, you’re gonna, you know, we’re gonna cut you off. And then, Oh, that’s not good enough. We’re gonna go to one and half percent or 1%. Yeah.

So it’s kind of like the same thing is happening now with age verification and you know, like accountability for, they’re trying to make these third party upload sites more accountable and because they didn’t make it account themselves accountable, they would, you know, they Right. There was a select few that made some egregious errors that they’re now paying for dearly. And unfortunately the pressure, I think of some organizations to that are associated, have their brands associated with that get hurt and overreact.

It’s kind of like where the airlines had that one guy who tried to light his shoe on fire, Now we all have to take our shoes off. Exactly. There was one example

Speaker 1 (20m 21s): Actors, right, that actors always mess up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They mess it up for everybody. There’s no two ways about it. Do you think Visa and MasterCard are, are falling to the pressure from these organizations and what can be done about it?

Speaker 3 (20m 35s): Absolutely. I think that’s what this is. The, the, they, when MasterCard especially came out with their guidelines for, especially for third party uploads, which is really what’s causing so many issues where you either have to be, you know, and, and for creators think about a creator, they now have to verify, Oh hey, do you, you know, like instead of just doing a shoot with somebody, even if they do paperwork, they really cannot, it’s not good enough because if you’re not tagging the other person, you’re not able to tag the other per person on the specific platform that you are on.

It’s very difficult for you to use that content on that platform. Right? Sure. So you have to find people who are on the platform that, or platforms that you are on and, and then arrange trade shoots or content shoots with them and then, you know, still do the paperwork and due diligence and all that and, and testing and all that. But v said MasterCard are definitely falling to the pressure and, you know, they, they are the gatekeepers of our business and Yep.

They, they know it, we lose them. We are done as an industry pretty

Speaker 1 (21m 57s): Much. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21m 59s): You know, we can see that through how not successful some of the, you know, the one who, the, the one site who shall the nameless, mainly because I’ve been doing a lot of extra work for them, but you know, they, they, they lost theirs and their revenue is a fraction based on Bitcoin or, you know, crypto or however how whatever other forms that they’re trying to get through that’s not credit card related.

Sure. We, we know that, you know, that it’s gonna be a fraction of the revenue and if we lose the ability to take credit cards, we’re all done.

Speaker 1 (22m 38s): Yeah. Pretty much. Until somebody comes up with an alternative that the public will accept, we’re stuck with credit cards. It’s, that’s, you know, that’s pretty much mainly for the US Obviously in Europe and some other places, there are other payment forms that are used primarily, but even Europe credit card usage has gone up. There’s no two ways about it. What are some obstacles as we, as an industry are facing over the next year or so?

Speaker 3 (23m 7s): Oh, that’s kind of fluid. I think, you know, if you would’ve asked me, I would’ve said credit cards. Yeah. Because I think they’re under a lot of pressure, both politically and from the extreme right. To, you know, attack us and they’re threatening our ability to take charge. I mean, if they were to hire me to do it, I would, That’s exactly how I would go about it. The, I think right now I think it’s economics. I think the economy there, you know, here it’s, we’re about to click over to the 15th of July, right.

And we’re, we’re about to get a lot of numbers that are released for about our economy. And some of this stuff had leaked out early regarding inflationary numbers that we haven’t seen since Jimmy Carter and, and the early days of Ronald Reagan when, when he first started his, his tenure. And, you know, we haven’t seen economic, you know, inflation in the not over 9% since, you know, since those 90 what, 91 timeframes.

And, and so it’s, it’s a little scary times here in the US and, and people don’t know it. Like the, there was a quote from JP Morgan Chase ceo. He said, There’s this, there’s a, a hurricane, an economic hurricane off the coast. We just don’t know what scale it is yet. So buckle up. Yeah. I mean, that was his quote. Wow. So it’s, that’s kind of scary when you think about the economy and the inflationary numbers that I’m seeing and that we’ve all seen that the gas pump, whether it’s the gas pump, whether it’s the grocery stores, whether it’s your rent or you’re, you’re, you know, now the interest rates are going up, which is, you know, they, they were at zero.

So it, it put the fed in a really difficult position because, and but it’s a natural thing when you pump in 12, what did we pump in 20 billion, 20 trillion into the economy over covid. Yeah. You know, I think it was somewhere around 20 trillion that we printed and eventually that’s gonna catch up. Course. That’s, that’s what’s happening. And so that’s the biggest scare for me is the economy and you know, like cuz most of our revenue comes from the US and Great Britain and, you know, some of the great economies of the world now we’re gonna get hit a little harder I think, than anybody else, in my opinion, cuz we’re less prepared for it.

Speaker 1 (25m 33s): Yeah. And we usually get hit first and we recover first is, is how it, how it tends to work when these things happen because the entire world responds to the US economy. So it’s, the rest of the world reacts to what happens in, in the US And I should give the standard disclaimer, we’re recording this in July, as you say, July 15th. So, and it will run sometime in September. So I noticed the move from NVC talent to now razor edge talent.

What happened there?

Speaker 3 (26m 9s): Biggest thing was probably divorce, excuse mec, new verticals consulting was a company that my, my then wife and I had started and when we went our separate ways through roundabout different things that happened between us, I ended up starting Razor edge talent with my now partner, Bambi Bliss. And it, it turned out to be a very good move. We have really made, you know, it, and not, not to too our own horns or anything, but we’ve hit our stride and just, it’s so much.

And you, you know, if you were to ask me what keeps me going, you know, like changing people’s lives, really, it’s a reality for me now. I’ve always wanted to be in philanthropy and this is about as close as I’m gonna get because I no longer have a cam site that I’m gonna be able to sell for, you know, the 20 million or whatever it is to start a foundation and, and Right. And get into philanthropy. So this is about as close as I can get and just make a difference in people’s lives and you know, and we are, and that’s that right to me is most rewarding.

And so that the primary thing is basically just change of ownership.

Speaker 1 (27m 25s): Yeah. So along with that, how are you enjoying talent management and how’s the new company doing?

Speaker 3 (27m 33s): Phenomenal. Like four x star revenue over the last quarter. Wow. Yeah. And it’s, it’s been, it’s been a really mixture of good and very, very sad and dramatic times with some performers, you know, losing loved ones. And I actually unfortunately had been called by one of my clients to her house to check on her fiance. And it was a, I, you know, unlocked her car remotely from where she was at.

And unfortunately I had found him passed in his bed, he passed peacefully and it just, it just, it was, it was such a horrible day and you know, like, and just, yeah, I bet there’s, you know, with some and other ones, you know, going through very much trauma of their own and reliving again some trauma that they’ve gone through, you know, and just dealing with you cuz they’re, you know, they’re not only my clients, you know, I don’t, I never look at people who work with me as clients, but the more my friends and family Yes.

And I, I take that responsibility and so does my partner. We take that responsibility very, very seriously. And people ask me, he says, Dan, you really need to take some time for yourself. And I said, well, I would if I worked for myself, but I, you know, and, and if, if I was responsible only for me and my business or my income, it’d be great. I can do that. I can go on a vacation, I can take that time off if I need to. Sure. When you’re responsible for the livelihoods of families, you know, 20, 30 families, then you don’t have that luxury anymore.

It’s kind of like when you have, when you have kids, I like when my children had my grandbabies, I said, Your life is no longer your own. It belongs to that little, little one in your arms now. And to me that’s kind of like how my clients and my friends are for me. It’s like I take their, the responsibility that they lay at my feet very seriously. Yeah. And I’m gonna work hard every day and, and my team works very hard and my partner works very hard every day, seven days a week to do the best job we can for them and, and earn them as much as we can.

And we are, we’re, you know, it’s fun and rewarding to see the life-changing revenues that, that we’re seeing

Speaker 1 (30m 9s): Now. You used to be a, an entrepreneur and didn’t work for anybody, now you do work for a company. What do you find the difference to be for you? Besides No, besides no vacations. Right.

Speaker 3 (30m 24s): I never got one of those either with them by the way. It’s just saying and I still don’t, but you know what they, you know, I work for JC Baumgartner primarily my, is my immediate guy. Right? Yeah. There’s, there’s a, there’s not a lot of Indians. There’s a lot of chiefs in our companies and he’s a great guy and I’m internally grateful for him. He pulled me, you know, when I lost everything. And I mean, when I, when I say I lost everything, I lost everything. My family, I

Speaker 1 (30m 53s): Remember,

Speaker 3 (30m 53s): I remember my family, my business, my cars, my watches, anything, anything that was valued. But you know, obviously the only thing I like, you know, at that time I cared about where my kids and Sure. I focused on them and, and, and you know, he, it was a very dark place, I’ll just say that. And John Baumgartner jc he, he pulled me out of that by giving me a, an opportunity to come to work and, and move to Vegas after my children had empty nested me.

And I’m eternally grateful for that. And he has my undying loyalty and gratitude and, you know, the porn star platinum and Transa. I will, I hope to always be a part of it. And, and as long as they’ll have me, I will do it and I will do it to my, the best of my ability and for no other reason for that. Yeah. And you know, I really like it and I like the, the direction that they’re heading. They’re moving away from the solo girl sites and moving more to a network site where we’re doing paid trade as opposed to just trade.

We’re, we’re not relying on the girls for updating a website. We’re, we’re going also to full paid. We’re doing some cam stuff again, which is exciting for me. We, I bet. Yeah. We’re doing a black label. I, I guess, you know, without giving away too much, it’s very similar to a very large company that’s out there. But we’re gonna do it on a smaller scale of course. But it’s, it’s modeled after something else. But, you know, I guess, but it is going to be exciting and fun for me once it gets up and running.

Speaker 1 (32m 36s): When will that be?

Speaker 3 (32m 38s): We probably by the, maybe by the time this airs. I, you know, I really hope, you know, it’s a, it’s a process right now. I’m still trying to make the adjustments on taking over production because that has been thrown on my lap and that’s not something that I normally had done. So they, for they, fortunately they gave me an assistant to work with and to dump some things off of that I would normally do and to enable me some additional time to do content. But it’s kind of tough because I’m so personable and our, our household and, and Bambi and I, the way we run both business, our business and our relationship with porn star platinum and trans erotica is that, you know, we have, we have talent staying at our house all the time.

You know, whether because we, when we invite people to shoot with us, we invite them to stay with us a lot of times too. Yeah. Because it’s a nice safe place. They don’t, they don’t have to spend money on hotels when they travel and things like that. Right. So, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s one of those things where it’s great and on the other side you never really have any time for yourself, but Sure. So that, that adjustment’s been great for me and keeps me going. But, and that’s probably the biggest change for Porn Star Platinum and Transa that’s coming down the pike is our focus more on the quality of content, the, and returning our, the quality of our name back to it.

Sure. We went through a rough patch where we, we, you know, we had some issues with content being delivered on in a timely manner. We no longer have those issues. Okay. And we’ve, we’ve, we’ve increased and improved the quality of the content, the shoot houses that are available to us and just the overall way we treat people and we’re changing the culture of the company, you know, one performer at a time, as I say.

Speaker 1 (34m 35s): Awesome. Now how are you feeling about the overall future of networks like Porn Star, Platinum and Transa?

Speaker 3 (34m 44s): Yeah, it’s gonna be an interesting couple of years. I think as the economy, I think that’s where it’s gonna hurt the worst. Right. In my opinion, it’s going, we’re gonna see much like we did in the 2008 to 2012 range. I think we’re gonna see a drastic reduction in the amount of programs that are smaller programs that survive. I do think porn star platinum and Transa is ripe for survival.

They’ll, they’re not going anywhere are, are our cost of production versus the, you know, revenues I think are really good. And our ratios, our, our conversion ratios are phenomenal. It’s just a matter of getting enough the traffic obviously, but as the economy is going to test everything. So Yeah. And as our, as the credit cards start to get maxed out and we, our rebuilds start to decline and, you know, those types of things or people don’t, are reluctant to break out their credit cards or have less expends.

But there’s, you know, what we, what we did learn from 2008 to 2012 is that women will never give up their hair and getting their hairs and nail done. Right. And men will never give up their porn. This is true. So those are the two things that are pretty much economy proof and thank God we’re in the business. We are and I’m not in the hair business, so, but I do have a friend who is, and I almost wish I was, cause that guy’s a billionaire now and, but Oh wow.

And we met in this, in this industry, but in 2000, I think it was like 2010, he got into the hair, hair, organic hair systems and stuff, so Wow. Yeah. Mole to him cuz

Speaker 1 (36m 42s): Hey baby, whatever works. Right. But

Speaker 3 (36m 44s): I think, yeah, I think that’s the biggest challenge for us. And I think the future, you know, is gonna be a challenge for the next few years as we fight through the economy, economic issues.

Speaker 1 (36m 54s): Sure. I agree. Now what’s next for Dan Ho?

Speaker 3 (36m 59s): Continue to continue to be diversified. I, I really looking forward to this project with the cam once we get it going as a personal level, but the, just the continue to strive, go through the growing pains that we’re, we’re already going through. We’ve planned ahead for, you know, I’ve been in this, I’ve been in the business a while and been self-employed my entire life and I learned a lot of valuable lessons when I was younger regarding forecasting and planning for growth so that when you do reach that growing point, you don’t tip over.

Yeah. And so we planned ahead for this and we’re in a great shape to, and we’re, we’re fairly expandable very quickly. So that’s really where I’m at is right now we’re in growth mode on everything. Whether it’s porn, star, platinum, trans erotica, razor edge talent. We’re, we’re just blowing up and, and doing everything we can to expand there

Speaker 1 (38m 1s): With so many more of them out there now with all the creators. What advice would you give to performers today?

Speaker 3 (38m 9s): Stay true to yourself. You know, you have a lot of power, but it’s not as easy as you think. You know, with great power comes great responsibility. Right? Before the responsibility was always on the companies. They had to hire you, they had to pay you, they had to fly you out, they had to do all this. Well now you’re doing a lot of that yourself. You’re the one that’s being, being the creator. You’re the one who’s being the producer. You’re the one who sometimes is being the editor or Yeah.

The marketer. You have to do all of those things or, or, or hire for it. So, you know, and at the same time you want to try to have a life and in quality of life. So Sure. My advice to them is find a balance. You know, that there are, there are people out there that can help them consult with them, that can, that can do some of the things and take some things off their hands. There’s obviously a lot of things that they have to do personally, but it’s a lot of work. It’s not easy, it wasn’t easy for companies to, to blow up and make a lot of money.

And it’s not necessarily easy for a performer to do it, even with help sometimes it, it’s still work. And if they’re expecting to not work, they’re not going to be successful. So I would would go into that with the mindset of, hey, keep your work ethic in check and really, really buckle down and learn. If not learn, then find the people around you that are successful in what they do that where you need them and apply that.

But be true to yourself and trust your instincts, you

Speaker 1 (39m 48s): Know? Okay. Now what do you think about AVN and X Biz and really all the shows finally returning to live formats?

Speaker 3 (39m 56s): Hey, not only that, did you see the dates for AVN

Speaker 1 (40m 0s): Dates? I haven’t noticed, No.

Speaker 3 (40m 2s): They, they went back to co corresponding with ces.

Speaker 1 (40m 6s): Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (40m 7s): I literally just noticed that today cuz they sent out an

Speaker 1 (40m 9s): Email. Oh, it’s later.

Speaker 3 (40m 10s): It’s no, it’s at the same time.

Speaker 1 (40m 12s): No, but I mean, it’s later than it was last year that the, was last year.

Speaker 3 (40m 18s): Yeah. Ex I’m talking about AVN and I love the fact that Xbi is doing the X three. You know, I love, I love that organization. Absolutely amazing.

Speaker 1 (40m 30s): Doing some nice work on, on their shows for,

Speaker 3 (40m 32s): They always have, you know, they, the a the a plus people, phenomenal. And I’m glad to see them be the, they were the first last year and ran their successful show. Unfortunately, I didn’t make it because of family issues, but I, I absolutely love the fact that we’re going back to live shows. And I love the fact that, that, you know, when I first started in avn it was AVN and ces, you know, even as, as amateurs and, you know, they would have all these business guys come over and it really kind of made a difference.

And I’m hoping that going back to that will, because they kind of avoided each other for a while and it really changed the whole dynamic of avn and I’m kind of hoping that it, it restores some of that glory Yeah. Of that particular show. And I like the venue, you know, Vegas World or what is it? No, Resorts World is a phenomenal building. I’m very excited about it. And, and at edX biz as well. And this year going to Europe, I, you know, I plan on, you know, going to the European shows.

Speaker 1 (41m 43s): Oh, are you gonna be at, are you gonna be at Tes?

Speaker 3 (41m 45s): I’m, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do more over the next year in Europe and great,

Speaker 1 (41m 50s): I’ll see you

Speaker 3 (41m 51s): There. I I’ve still look back to getting back to there and I, I still wanna hit up porno Dan in Budapest and stuff and catch up with him. Sure. Yeah. Oh, he’s awesome. I missed that. What a great

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Guy. Oh, he’s a, he’s a wild man, but he’s a, he’s an amazing guy. I love following him on, on Facebook and seeing him with all his girls. Right. He’s, he is one of a kind, There’s no two ways about it by the way. One, one correction. Yeah. X three is a great show. I think the first Creator show was actually why Not Community? Which is an amazing show as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They, they were the first on that, on that format and X business followed now and I, I heard great things about both events.

Well Dan, hey, I’d like to thank you for being back again on Adult Site Broker talk and I hope we’ll have a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 3 (42m 42s): You bet. Look forward to it. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (42m 44s): Thanks for being here. My broker tip today is part nine of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about what information to provide a potential buyer. Here’s more. Tell them what’s special or different about your site, How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all the websites you’re selling in addition to any domains that come along with the sale, is there anything that adds value to the sale? Provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer any information.

Have them sign a non-disclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh I don’t know, adult site Broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours and they know how to deal with buyers. They will also negotiate the terms of the sale such as price and any payment terms before closing the sale. Find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected.

We have those resources of course. Let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sales price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time if the profit is taking a nose dive.

We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with SafferMaster and Lady Petra of Slubb USA. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Dan Hogue. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Jay Kopita of YNot.

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Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords.

As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner is developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third party sites. It currently has no employees.

Aside from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business, SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Jay Copia of Why Not Group, AKA l aj, and he’s also known as Harry J. Thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 47s): Hey, thanks for having me,

Speaker 1 (2m 48s): Bruce. Now, why not has been around since 1996. At that time, their goal was to provide early online developers of adult websites with a central hub where they could network and promote ethical business practices in what was then a largely lawless internet. The company has changed ownership several times since its early days, eventually moving its core presence to the domain. Why not.com and branching out with additional services for businesses today? The company, Why Not Group offers a variety of B2B services for adult companies.

Why not also operates the blog, Why Not Europe, which focuses on adult business news coming out of the EU in early 2016. The company added, Why not shoot me a photo journalism site and collaboration with veteran adult industry photographer and my buddy Buster Brown. Why not is also has, why not Cam an online magazine that offers tips and advice to CAM models in addition to its well-read blogs and resource sites. Why not Group also operates popular industry events.

The well attended Why Not Awards formal event takes place each year in Prague and collaboration with the Tes Affiliates Summit. The Why Not Awards offers the adult industry an opportunity to recognize the biggest achievers in the adult online sector. Why not also owns and operates. Why not mail a hosted email marketing and delivery platform that provides companies with a powerful platform for driving email marketing success? They also have the Why not CAM awards and why Not Community in Hollywood.

That’s community with an A. This year’s edition is October 10th through the 13th, and this year they added another event in Arizona. The Why Not Reunion. So Jake, who should be attending? Why not community?

Speaker 2 (4m 38s): Wow. First of all, thank you for covering all that. Hopefully everyone

Speaker 1 (4m 42s): Was for your, for your commercial.

Speaker 2 (4m 43s): Yeah, hopefully everyone was at home taking notes about all that stuff, so I’m sure

Speaker 1 (4m 47s): I was,

Speaker 2 (4m 47s): Yeah. Anybody with any kind of involvement whatsoever in the webcam or the content creator industries, whether you’ve been around for many years or your brand new or anything in between? We’d like to get all performers attending our show in Hollywood. Anybody that works for any of these platforms or any kind of service that can feed into webcams or content creation should also attend. You know, we’ve got affiliate passes, we’ve got Cam Performer and Clip Performer passes, we’ve also got executive passes.

So really just a whole business to business show where anybody with any kind of involvement in any of these industries should attend

Speaker 1 (5m 28s): This events come a long way in a few years.

Speaker 2 (5m 31s): Yeah, we were tripped up obviously because of the pandemic. We were just starting to get some momentum in everything. But yeah, compared to what we had in 2019 to what we’re doing this year and hopefully what our attendance is gonna look like, we’re definitely trending in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (5m 45s): Yeah, for sure. It’s become a really big thing among the creator industry for sure.

Speaker 2 (5m 53s): Yeah. Who

Speaker 1 (5m 54s): Should be attending the Why Not Came awards?

Speaker 2 (5m 56s): Obviously, anybody who got a nomination, if they have the time and the means to make it out to la, they’re gonna be treated to an amazing night. I mean, it’s the Oscar’s night for, for, for Cams and creators. Anybody who’s been nominated automatically gets a VIP seat. All the, all the companies that are sponsoring, even the companies that are not. We have, we’ve got balcony seats, we’ve got an after party, we’ve got entertainment, open bar dinner, red carpet, everything.

So literally, aside from all the people that got nominated, anybody who’s in the industry whatsoever, they’re welcome to attend. I mean, we’ve got very low priced seats in the balcony and lots of room to put them. So it’s really just, we are not gonna turn anyone away who’s in the industry. If you buy a ticket, you can get

Speaker 1 (6m 46s): In. I understand it’s quite an experience.

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): Yeah, it is. We do our best to take care of everyone. A lot of the unsung heroes in the industry who really don’t get their due at the other shows, or they’re kind of, you know, treated like cattle or just kind of, you know, moved around. We’re not like that. We, we want everyone to go there feeling like, Wow, this is our night and we’re finally being taken care of.

Speaker 1 (7m 6s): This is really the original content creator show and awards, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (7m 15s): Yeah, I mean, I don’t think anybody was paying as much attention to Cam Stars and creators specifically like we were when we launched this back in 2018. A lot of times that industry was kind of included as like an all so ran, so to speak. Yeah. When all the porn stars were being awarded. When there’s nothing wrong with that, but I mean, you know, you’ve got the porn industry and then you’ve got the creator and cam industry, and we decided to focus solely on that. And you know, it’s served us well and others have more or less taken note in followed suit.

Speaker 1 (7m 50s): Sure. Well, they say imitation is the greatest form of flattery. The whole content creator concept. Obviously with the advent of only fans and all of the other platforms, it’s become massive. Absolutely massive. You guys seem to kind of see it coming, but talk about the whole content creator industry and what it’s become.

Speaker 2 (8m 19s): Well, I mean, essentially way, way back in the day, the people that controlled the internet were the people that owned the pay sites and ran the affiliate programs. You know, those are the people that controlled everything. And I mean, we’ve seen a shift over the years and the models and the creators who have tons of influence, who have tons of followers and are influencers, you know, a lot of these people are the ones who really run the show. And I mean, when you’re out there and you’re making six figures and I mean, and even some cases seven figures a year, it’s, you know, it’s crazy.

So yeah, you know, it’s, it’s really been a game changer. And I mean, I think the pandemic played into a part of it as well, because a lot of times Sure. People needed, you know, needed work and they saw what was going on, and anybody with enough knowledge of the internet and what their audience could be like and Tenacity can, can carve out their own, their own path and their own fan base.

Speaker 1 (9m 16s): And the creators, the performers for the first time have really taken control of the industry.

Speaker 2 (9m 24s): Yeah, that’s a fair assessment. It’s been that way for a number of years, even, I think it was that way even before the Pandemic, but people really started taking notice over the last couple of years for sure, that this is how things are moving.

Speaker 1 (9m 38s): So what makes Why Nots nomination process better than other shows?

Speaker 2 (9m 44s): Well, I’m not a hundred percent sure how the others do it, but I do see that a lot of times they’ll accept 10 nominees per category, some cases 15 or even 20 nominees per category. Yeah, I mean, at that point it doesn’t even become about the nomination because what are your chances of winning when you’re among that many for the same category? Sure. You know, we limit to five per category. So getting nominated is truly an elite. It’s truly elite that way. I mean, our process, we require all potential nominees during the preop phase.

It’s either accept or reject nomination suggestions that come their way. So no one is gonna end up in a category that they don’t want to be. I mean, they have the full control to reject everything that comes their way except for the one category. And if they get into that category, great. If they don’t, then they don’t. But at the end of the day, our, our screening process and the fact that we limit it, so we make it much, much more about the performer and their nomination and a lot less about us, I think really differentiates us from all of our competitors.

Speaker 1 (10m 46s): Talk about the voting process too, because I’m not gonna accuse anybody of playing favorites in any of the awards, but there’s that inference out there. It’s really something when you guys have an awards event, it’s, it’s for real.

Speaker 2 (11m 9s): Yes. Well, you know, the thing that might look like it’s weighted in one direction or another is that there’s just certain platforms out there that are very, very engaged with us. When you have, you know, 2000 people buying for 125 nomination spots, a lot of people are not gonna get nominated. Sure. And the thing is, is that, you know, there’s a select three or four platforms where, you know, the owners and the people who run the platform and their models, whether it’s you know, top ones or new ones, they’re really engaged with us.

They’re engaged with the process, they’re paying attention to what we’re doing, and hundreds of them are trying to get in. So naturally more are gonna be nominated out of that. Just when you look at the sheer numbers, you know, And then once the voting starts, you know, obviously we have a, a process there as well where people can vote, but they need to be signed up for a why not ID account. And we’re able to, you know, tabulate everything and see where it’s coming from and, and all that good stuff. But yeah, I mean, it’s just, when you, when you look at it that way, that’s, that’s how it would appear.

Speaker 1 (12m 16s): You’re very involved with the creator and Cam platforms. Which of these platforms, which of the newer platforms have you been most impressed with?

Speaker 2 (12m 28s): Well, I would have to say I was really impressed when Cherry TV came around. They, you know, were vying for a market that really, I wouldn’t say it’s saturated. I mean, there’s always room for more, but, you know, jumping into the freemium market and trying to compete with, you know, some of the biggest players out there like, like Chatter, baer, strip chat. I mean, it’s very difficult feat. You have to put a lot of money into marketing. You have to do a lot of things in order to be noticed and be taken seriously. So I was really impressed with them. Sure.

You know, Sugar bounce, I’m, I’m impressed with them and how, you know, they’re involving all different facets with their platform and as well are using crypto. You know, it’s, it’s tough to get into the market nowadays as opposed to, you know, creating a white label and basically working directly with any specific platform. So I would’ve to say those two have, you know, stuck out for me.

Speaker 1 (13m 23s): Okay. So what events does, why not attend and how does it help your business?

Speaker 2 (13m 29s): We tend to go to any show that has given us a return or has a proven track record of me being able to make sales and us getting the kind of recognition and FaceTime with people that we’re already doing business with. So to that end, you know, I’m always gonna be going totes the European Center. Sure. Tes Philly conferences in Europe. I’ll always make a point of going to AVN and Internets just because those have been really good for me for FaceTime and meeting business owners and performers that I’ve either worked with or I’m friends with or have some sort of business association with.

Right. And then as well, the exotic expos, we’re regular partners with those guys. We exhibited every show. I get a lot of FaceTime with a lot of creators and performers at there at that show. And I always managed to land sales as well that you know, more more than pay for the trips. So the exotic expos have really been good for our brand and you know, it also separates us from our competitors in that regard too.

Speaker 1 (14m 31s): Exotic is an interesting one, and I can’t say I’ve ever attended one. I’ve heard a lot about them from people like you and people like Buster who we mentioned earlier. How much of a B2B element does Exotica have for somebody like say myself,

Speaker 2 (14m 45s): It really doesn’t have that kind of an element there. You have to go out looking for it. The whole show is designed entirely for businesses that promote some sort of lifestyle product, whether it’s novels or Cams or swingers. I mean, it’s just got a little bit of everything there and it’s obviously designed for all the fans that come into the show. That’s where the bulk of the attendance is. It’s all for the consumer. My thing is, is that I go to all the booths and I talk to the owners, I talk to lots of models there and you know, I get them interested as well in knowing more about why not in our brand.

Plus, we get a lot of traffic at our booth. I usually have anywhere from 10 to 15 different performers who are signing or doing autographs or photographs or just basically hustling and representing at my booth. It’s a, it’s a fun place to be. It’s safe for them and you know, it’s good for their brand and it’s good for mine.

Speaker 1 (15m 42s): So it sounds like with, with a lot of companies being there, it it’s, it’s b2b. If you make it b2b

Speaker 2 (15m 50s): Yeah. You can make anything b2b. The thing is, is I just wouldn’t recommend anybody that’s, you know, going there that’s, you know, looking for business to go at all the booths and solicit them directly. I mean, something like that. It’s just, you know, I mean people are paying for booths. They’re trying to sell their product. I will only go in and actively solicit someone if they wanna be solicited to. Oh and usually, yeah. And usually I will find them. I mean, it’s just, for example, when I was in Miami, I met the guys who own and operate Motor Bunny, you know, the interactive sex toy.

Right. And these guys founded the company, Brooks and Caleb over there, really, really cool guys. They gave me a demo, showed me the product and everything. You know, got some really good info about that. And you know, discussed with them at the show, you know, about what we’re doing with why not and everything. And I could see that they were interested in knowing more. And obviously the model reach is huge. And how would you know it? They’re my after party sponsor for the Why Not Came awards on October 13th.

Speaker 1 (16m 50s): Talk about North American shows. You know, it, it used to be there were more, it used to be there was an inter next in Miami, there was the Phoenix Forum. Even the shows that used to be adult only now seem to be catering to more than just adult. Why is that?

Speaker 2 (17m 11s): The people that run these shows just, maybe it’s not as, it is a lot of reasons. It’s not as fun for them as it used to be. It’s certainly not as profitable as for them as it used to be. You know, the old webmaster B2B shows used to be a gold mine because there were so many companies that were making money hand over fist and they were interested in sponsoring all these different events. Right. You know, a lot of ’em have either gone by the wayside or they’re just not interested in spending that kind of money anymore, or they just aren’t really interested in going to these kinds of shows.

I mean, the, the old days are gone and as show organizers, you know, you gotta go where the money is. You gotta go where you know your fan base is gonna be and where it’s gonna make the most sense. Sure. And you know, I wouldn’t say that, you know, all of them have given up, but if it’s not working out for them, obviously the smart thing to do is to just, you know, not do those shows anymore. And unfortunately, there’s some companies out there still doing events that really don’t bring anything to the table. They don’t bring the numbers and it kind of poisons it for the rest of us.

Because if people only go to those shows and they see it as being not really that big and really not that good for their business, they’re gonna kind of associate all events like that. And then just, you know, if things aren’t working for you, go for a plan B and stop doing what you’re doing because it doesn’t help anyone.

Speaker 1 (18m 30s): Now you’ve been in the business for a long time, Jay, How has the sales aspect, because that’s primarily what you handle and why not, How has that changed on a B2B level from the time you’ve started?

Speaker 2 (18m 45s): I think it’s got a lot more difficult over the years. A lot of the sales that I made back in the day were much more out of necessity for the person that I was selling to. I didn’t have the kinds of relationships with people back then that I do now. Sure. Much of the sales that I’m able to secure now is because people already know who I am and they know what my brand is about. Right. Or they’re at least familiar seeing what my brand is. A lot of times it’s very, very relationship driven.

I get more sales because of people knowing who I am or what I am. Sure. Which is open doors for me. And it makes it little bit easier, but it’s still, I mean, it’s a grind. I’m, you know, never just sitting back on my laurels and be like, you know, things are, things are easy. I’m always, always hustling. Always.

Speaker 1 (19m 34s): Yeah. I’m a good example. I mean, I started advertising with you guys because I know you, I know Connor. I know why not. And I believe in the brand and I believe in what you guys do. So I support it.

Speaker 2 (19m 46s): Yeah. Wow. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (19m 48s): Talk about also the, the changes in the adult industry since you started. Obviously it was a totally different game Yeah. When you first got into it.

Speaker 2 (19m 59s): Yeah. Well, I mean, back when I first started in 2000, I mean, I had no clue about anything. I mean, there were people that were already multi multimillionaires from, you know, launching pay sites. Right. Affiliate programs from years earlier. I mean, it was a pretty lawless place. You know, you’d meet people for the first time at events or wherever and a lot of times you’d go an entire career without knowing anybody’s real name. You would just know their board name, the nickname. You’d never know what they look like because back then no one was using any kind of facial anything to, to associate themselves with any kind of what was considered social media back then.

The barrier of entry was a lot different back then as well. There’s always gonna be unethical players out there. Sure. I just think it was a lot easier to get into the industry way back when and you know, scam someone out of their money and then, you know, disappear and then reinvent yourself and then come back like nothing happened. Those days are long gone, I think.

Speaker 1 (20m 56s): Oh yeah. Well, social media, how has that changed the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (21m 1s): It’s really leveled the playing field for a lot of people. You know, Used to be, I mean, just social media in general. I mean it, it used to be that the people that were in power and the people that were in charge had all the power and you know, now anybody within internet connection and you know, a little bit of time can go out there and, and make noise or they can carve their own career. They can do really anything. I mean, it’s also opened up a lot of possibilities at the same time. I mean, now you can promote to a larger group of people.

Things are much, much quicker. It’s, you know, for better or worse made promotion and selling possible for everyone.

Speaker 1 (21m 42s): Absolutely. Yeah. So how did the why not awards in ProGo?

Speaker 2 (21m 48s): Oh man. So it was our 12th year and it was Wow. Literally. Yeah. It’s one of our best ones. I mean, I more or less use the same formula year after year, but this year, you know, I was determined to keep things on a certain time schedule. Technically everything went well. I mean, a lot of the things that you kind of take for granted was the food good, was the deliveries of all my necessities. There was everything in perfect working order. I did my co-host do a great job. I mean, pretty much the answer to everything was yes this year.

And I was very happy with the results. And yeah, I mean the show, the show was continuing on after all these years.

Speaker 1 (22m 29s): The coordination of things like the Why Not Awards, both in Prague, in la that’s a tremendous undertaking. And you guys are, you guys are still a small team. How do you guys pull it off? There’s only so many hours in the day.

Speaker 2 (22m 45s): I know, I know. It’s tough. I mean, believe me, Connor and I could both use literally two assistance each, if not more. The, the profit margin, you know, for a lot of what we do isn’t huge. So we’ve also learned over the years to be as streamlined as we possibly can. Connor and I have both faced some serious adversity over the years and some major, major hurdles both inside the industry and out, both inside our company and out. So we’ve just, we’ve learned to be adapters survivors, all that stuff.

And you know, if we’re able to continue doing it, we will. I mean, if we start getting to the point where the money is just so great, you know, we’ll hire an additional team. But until then, you know, we’re, we’re pretty content to be doing things the way that we have been.

Speaker 1 (23m 38s): Now, both you and Connor started as employees of the company and worked your way up to the executive level and then eventually became owners. Talk about that journey.

Speaker 2 (23m 50s): It was crazy and extremely improbable. Yeah, I mean, Connor and I both, well Connor started in the industry in like 97. I started out in 2000. Why Not Was owned by another company, became its own entity in 2001. At that point I was, I was in charge of PR and trade shows. Connor was a staff writer. He would later go on to be in charge of all of the news and written content on the site. And I was in charge of all of our sales forward a couple more years after that, as the industry’s changing before Tube sites hit, the owners of the company just weren’t really adapting, Seemed like they’d kind of lost interest in the company, decided they wanted to fight each other over ownership of it all.

And then when all was said and done, we ended up getting one bought out and then we found an investor and got the other bought out. And Connor and I basically started driving from the backseat in like 2007, 2008 and saw that, you know, we’d lost a lot of ground and we needed to do something to save the company. And then tube sites hit and then the recession hit and all hell broke loose from like 2008 to 2010. And when all was said and done, you know, we were able to have an investor help us out. We made a lot of great decisions.

You know, we made a few mistakes along the way, of course. Sure. But the journey at any given time could have just ended because the amount of stress and the amount of bullshit that we had to endure during that time. I mean, there were days where I would just get up and I’d be like, You know what? I can’t do this. I just can’t anymore. It’s ridiculous. And any san person at that point would’ve realized, you know what, this is just too much. But you know,

Speaker 1 (25m 23s): We know better. We know better about you Jay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 26s): Maybe, you know, you get to that point where you just keep fighting and you keep doing that. You know, to just call it quits at that point would really negate everything that you’ve been working towards. Right. You know, And then sure enough, we were able to get to the point where we bought out the investor. So it was all completely worth it. Honestly, I consider it one of the better success stories in this industry.

Speaker 1 (25m 45s): I agree. And you guys, you guys really have changed with the times of all the companies out there. Most of the other companies out there have pretty much stayed the same or stayed pretty much the same. The one thing I notice about you guys is you’ve shifted and you’ve adapted and you’ve changed with the times and you’ve added products as the times have warranted it.

Speaker 2 (26m 11s): Absolutely. I mean, you have to, unless you have a product that’s gonna be in demand all the freaking time, you have to constantly be looking for new revenue streams. And you have to be shifting and paying attention to what’s trending and what changes out there. I mean, you know, you think about it way, way back when, look at how big my space was. And they were only big for like a year or two or something like that. Yeah, yeah. And they completely disappeared. I mean, you think about Facebook, Facebook has been big for, you know, a very considerable amount of time. Sure. But there is gonna come a day where Facebook is completely a relic.

It’s just not gonna be used by Don its way anymore. Yeah. It’s gonna be replaced. I mean it’s definitely been on its way for quite some time, but it’s still huge. There’s no question about it. Yep. But you know, unless you’re something like that where you don’t plan on working beyond 10 years at the most and selling when it’s worth millions and millions and then getting out, then you know, you have to focus on what’s working for you and what isn’t. And you know, more or less kind of predicting what’s going to work. And that’s what we’ve been doing.

Speaker 1 (27m 15s): Yeah. And unfortunately those acquisition strategies in the adult industry aren’t necessarily the same as mainstream.

Speaker 2 (27m 23s): Right. Yeah. There’s, you know, lots of other factors at play.

Speaker 1 (27m 27s): Absolutely. So tell us a little more about your experience with Exotica and how people can join. Why not there?

Speaker 2 (27m 36s): Basically, you know, it’s funny, I’ve got a core group of models that I like to work with that have really shown themselves to be just hard workers. Great attitude, very dependable show up at the booth on time. They’re out there hustling. They’re good for my brand. And you know, good for working with them. They can always, you know, perspective Mons can always reach out to me and ask. I will say though that we’re definitely over full for New Jersey for this year. And I’m already pretty much at capacity for DC as well.

But you know, they can always reach out to me and you know, who knows.

Speaker 1 (28m 14s): Talk about your relationship with the models, because I’m thinking back to a consulting client we had, and we had a dialogue about when I asked you who would be a good model as a spokes model. And I was kind of surprised, although when I think back about it, I, I understand because of your philosophy, you guys were really, really careful wanting to know what we wanted this person for, how much we were gonna pay the person.

Yep. And, and talk a little bit about your relationship with the models. Cause I found that fascinating.

Speaker 2 (28m 51s): Well, I mean, because I know so many, there isn’t really any one standard, I guess, relationship that I have with any of them. You know, at the end of the day, I take anything and everything as a professional business relationship first and foremost. Sure. You know, many of the models that I’m friendly with belong to platforms that are very important to me, very important to my brand. And I mean, you know, not all models are created the same. I mean, some I know are, are more interested in, you know, X way of doing business.

Others might be more interested in y some might be interested in affiliate opportunities, some might be interested in ambassador, some, I mean, I just know they’re gonna be very reliable. Others, you know, might be interested in it for a month and then they’ll wanna move on and do something different. Yeah. So, you know, I kind of take note of everyone who I’m friendly with and you know, when I meet someone new or I meet someone who’s been around for a long time and we just haven’t crossed paths or had caused a new business together. I mean, I pay attention to a lot of details, you know, and I mean for, I hate saying this, but for lack of another way of saying it, because of my age and the fact that I’ve been around for a long time, you know, I am kind of in some ways looked upon like as a father figure.

But you know, there’s nothing I can

Speaker 1 (30m 8s): You hate. I could tell by your voice You hate that Jay.

Speaker 2 (30m 11s): It depends. I mean, Yeah, no, it’s the double edged sword, you know?

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): That’s funny. Yes. Oh yes. We are older, Jay. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): We

Speaker 1 (30m 20s): Are. We’ve known each other a very long time and we were, we were pretty damn young when we met, but we’re older now. Talk about your newest event. Why not Reunion? I was a sponsor this year. Yeah. And in the first year and it was, it was fantastic. Talk about 2023.

Speaker 2 (30m 42s): So we’re definitely gonna do one in 2023, but it’s not gonna probably be in Phoenix. Reason being, here’s the thing, we were originally gonna do this at the Tempe Mission Palms Hotel, which is where the Phoenix Forum took place for like 16 or 15 years. They were showing us every sign that they didn’t want us there. So we ended up changing hotels weeks before the show, just out of comfort and security for our attendees as well as ourselves and our owns sanity. And it went off without a hitch. I mean, we had a great show. Yes. But we did not get invited back and for for no reason.

I mean, there was no problems. There was no nothing either.

Speaker 1 (31m 18s): I probably shouldn’t have gotten naked. I’m sorry. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (31m 20s): Yeah. Thank you Bruce. I mean, essentially, you know, I just don’t wanna deal with that kind of nonsense. I don’t wanna have to sit here and pound the pavement and prove to a hotel that, you know, we’re a business event just like any other. Yes. You know, and just having to jump through hoops and deal with bullshit. So it’s, we’re gonna be, we’re very interested in doing one in 2023, but we’re looking at doing it in a different city and probably in a place that, you know, is at least familiar to the bulk of the attendees.

Speaker 1 (31m 49s): So, and maybe and maybe not so conservative.

Speaker 2 (31m 52s): Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (31m 53s): You can say it.

Speaker 2 (31m 55s): Well, you know, obviously we’re looking at possibly either, you know, Vegas, possibly the Miami area. We’re, we’re just not sure yet.

Speaker 1 (32m 3s): Yeah, Interesting. Okay.

Speaker 2 (32m 6s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32m 7s): So what are some of the fun and entertainment highlights planned for the why not community and why not CAM awards?

Speaker 2 (32m 16s): So we’ve got all kinds of great stuff going on. I mean, the show’s gonna start October 10th. We’re gonna have, you know, our typical speed networking to kind of kick things off. We wanna have a self-defense class going on that evening. And then we’re gonna have an opening night cocktail party that cams.com is sponsoring. This is gonna be going on at the hotel and it’s gonna be, you know, our ds. It’s gonna be be a great mixer for everybody just getting into town. Then on October 11th, we’ve got a full day of seminars.

We’ve got the meat market, we’ve got safer work photography going on. We’ve got all kinds of fun stuff. That evening we just announced it that we’re gonna be doing a live rock band cosplay, karaoke night. So

Speaker 1 (32m 59s): Yeah, saw that.

Speaker 2 (32m 60s): Yeah, we’re gonna have a live rock band play. They’ve got hundreds and hundreds of songs and we are encouraging everybody to dress up for an early Halloween. This is gonna be, I, I’m still looking at getting it sponsored right now. I mean, you know, it’s something that we feel is really important to have. It’s just gonna be a great fun time. No one else is doing anything like this. Then on the 12th our entertainment sponsor for the show is strip chat and we’re taking over the entire rooftop pool of the W Hollywood Hotel and yeah, it’s gonna be an amazing night.

We’ve got the pool, we’ve got, you know, there’s gonna be food and drink going on up there and we’ve got the pool to all hours. You know, there’ll be heat lamps in case it gets a little chilly out. So this is something that we did a few years ago and we’re gonna revive it, but it’s gonna be even better this year. And then of course on the 13th, the red carpet starts at five 30 Pacific time and then the wine came awards starts promptly at eight 30 and it’s all gonna be live streamed.

Speaker 1 (33m 58s): Very cool. So Jay, you grew your hair out during the pandemic. I was kind of curious, why haven’t you cut it yet?

Speaker 2 (34m 7s): You know, it’s funny, it got to the point where it’s just like, it’s become such a part of me and it’s become like part of my brand. Even the fact that I still have, you know, the majority of it. I mean, yes, it’s definitely thinning on top, but the fact that I have the majority of it’s still, and it’s become a thing and it’s certainly become a bone of contention for a number of people as well. Makes me wanna cut it less and less. I mean, yeah, sure, it’s a pain in the ass to be sure. But you know, I figure at this point, once it’s gone, it’s gone. I mean, I’m kind of at a point in my life where I’m just probably not gonna do it again unless I, I, I get delirious and I’m unable to make decisions for myself.

So yeah, it’s just, it’s become a thing and I don’t know, I mean I enjoy it, so I figure, you know what, I can do whatever I want. Why not?

Speaker 1 (34m 54s): Why not?

Speaker 2 (34m 55s): Why not?

Speaker 1 (34m 56s): Is there gonna be a live, why not summit now that everyone is traveling again?

Speaker 2 (35m 1s): That’s a good question. You know, I know.

Speaker 1 (35m 3s): That’s why I asked it.

Speaker 2 (35m 4s): Yeah, thanks. So yeah, I mean, sure. When we launched it in 2020, we were the first North American online only adult trade show and we had nearly 2000 registrations that year. It was a huge success. We did it again in 2021 and 2022. We did it twice in 2020 actually. There’s still a lot of people out there that wanna attend trade shows but can’t either because they just don’t wanna travel or they don’t have the means to, or they’re just have social anxiety and don’t want to.

So yeah, the likelihood of us continuing on with why not Summit is obviously very high, but doing it like a two or a three day event like that, I don’t necessarily see us putting as much of the resources in time for doing it much beyond like a day or two.

Speaker 1 (35m 54s): Hmm. So would it be, would it be a live event or, or just virtual?

Speaker 2 (35m 59s): Oh, it would be virtual. I mean the why not Summit is it is virtual only. Yeah. Okay. So we’re gonna keep that. Why not Summit Virtual? Just I don’t think we’re gonna make it a three day event because we’re just not gonna pull the numbers that we have.

Speaker 1 (36m 12s): Yeah, yeah, that’s true.

Speaker 2 (36m 14s): Yeah. People just don’t get excited about that as much of

Speaker 1 (36m 17s): A, Yeah, the, I don’t think the appetite is there as much for Virtual Summit. It says it was during the pandemic, obviously people were just glad to see anybody besides their family. Exactly. What are some individual things you’re working on? Personally?

Speaker 2 (36m 32s): Doing a little bit of consultation here and there for, for various models. I’m, you know, doing some affiliate type opportunities, doing a lot of connections for businesses with individuals. And I’m also assisting with ainsley’s micro crush.com clothing line.

Speaker 1 (36m 54s): Hmm, cool. Yeah. Now I noticed you have a model directory now why not? Talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (37m 1s): Yeah, Connor put together this great thing that is connected directly with our awards as well as our events in general. And it’s just a real simple process. You go to why not id.com, you can create your own model account and if you’re nominated for anything, it can go directly to your voting page. If you’re at an event coming up, you can RSVP through it, you can do any kind of polls that we push your way to get, you know, information for upcoming events.

And it’s just something great that you can just share with your fans. It’s all safe for work photos and it’s a directory like you would expect a directory to, to work, but it’s, you know, just as much professional as it is. Anything else

Speaker 1 (37m 45s): I gotta tell you, I use your professional directory a lot.

Speaker 2 (37m 50s): Oh nice. Thank

Speaker 1 (37m 51s): You. Yeah, because sometimes I just can’t think off the top of my head memory not being what it used to be, you know, turning six to five next month. And I sometimes use, a lot of times use the director going, okay, billers or, Okay hosting companies and whether it’s subject matter for a blog we’re doing that I need to give to my writer or whatnot, I, I use that industry directory a lot and it’s really helpful.

And if anyone doesn’t know that, why not.com has an industry directory. It’s awesome. So

Speaker 2 (38m 27s): Yeah, we’ve been doing that for a long time. I appreciate that very much.

Speaker 1 (38m 31s): It’s really about the only one out there that’s, that’s worth a dam. So, you know, people really should, should check it out. So tell us about why nots philosophy on how you work with people and how it relates to industry loyalty.

Speaker 2 (38m 46s): So basically we have always, you know, wanted to treat everyone with respect in the industry. Doesn’t matter if you know you’re a CEO or if you are an assistant to someone or somebody who works in the marketing department, we’ve always approached, you know, treat everyone with respect. I mean as well, you never know who could be big tomorrow, so Exactly. You’re rude to someone that could come to bite you in the ass. I mean, we don’t do it for that reason. We just figure, you know, we’re all in this together to some degree and you know, we like to have as much fun as we possibly can.

So it just, I don’t know, it just pays to make the most of it and just, you know, be a good person. And I mean, at the same time, you know, we do whatever we can for a lot of businesses out there to help elevate them, to help promote them, to give them, you know, the kind of recognition they deserve. And while we would never, ever tell anyone, don’t do this or don’t do marketing with this company or don’t do that because it’s either our way or the highway kind of thing, it is a little disconcerting sometimes to see people that I know we’ve really been kind of fighting for and putting out on the front lines to just kind of disregard us and decide, you know, that, you know, they got their use out of us, so to speak and now they’re gonna go with, you know, our competitor or just do something that more or less just flies on our face.

I mean, I’ve seen that happen quite a bit and I mean, it sucks it’s life, it’s just the way it goes. Some people just don’t have the same philosophy as us. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (40m 14s): Yeah. No, I think loyalty is important. You know, you talked about you never know who you’re dealing with and everything. I mean, and people starting out as, as an assistant and ending up the top of a company. Look at Shirley, Laura, she started out on the ground level and it ended up as ceo.

Speaker 2 (40m 30s): She’s definitely like one of the most influential women in the industry and definitely one of the most influential women, if not the most, as far as executives go in the cam industry. So it’s like I,

Speaker 1 (40m 44s): But isn’t that a great, isn’t that a great example of someone starting out on the ground level and ending up running a company?

Speaker 2 (40m 50s): Absolutely. I mean, I remember when she was an affiliate manager way, way back in the day, you know, she’s one of the best success stories out there.

Speaker 1 (40m 60s): Absolutely. So I understand you’re gonna be in an upcoming movie called Tornado. Fill us in on that, Jay.

Speaker 2 (41m 9s): So I met the director at exotica a few, no, about a year ago I met Hailey and Rob at the Exotica having Stone as the lead actor in the movie. And I was just, you know, finding out about this when I was there and I’m, you know, asking around, I’m like, I met the director and, and I’m like, Hey look, you know, what’s this gonna be about? It’s like, well, you know, kind of gave me the plot line and all that and how it’s gonna be, be like NC 17 rated so that this is something that can play in all theaters and they only wanted people from the industry and the cast.

And I’m like, well look, you know, I’ve got IMDB credits, I’ve done this, I’ve done that, I’ve been on this TV show, is there any possibility that I could be in this? And I mean, you know, he saw some clips of acting that I’ve done and more or less just said, Yeah, we’d like to have you in it. So cool. We hope to start shooting some scenes in New Jersey Exotica next month. So, and right now we’re at a phase where we definitely need to get some funding and financing going. So anybody listening out there who has deep pockets that you know, wants to put into something that could very well be a cult classic.

I mean, you know, we’re talking like, you know, Rocky Horror Picture Show kind of cult classic potential. That’s what we’re hoping for.

Speaker 1 (42m 24s): Cool. I wish you well with it as as everything Jay. So Jay, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on Adult Site Broker talk. And I’m looking forward to Round Boy. It would be four soon,

Speaker 2 (42m 39s): Round four.

Speaker 1 (42m 40s): Well, if for the fourth time we do this. Yes, This is the third.

Speaker 2 (42m 44s): This is the third. I thought this. Yeah, you’re right. It is.

Speaker 1 (42m 48s): Thank you.

Speaker 2 (42m 49s): Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (42m 50s): It’s a pleasure. My broker tip today is part eight of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about information needed to give the buyer and being transparent with the buyer. Here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well has your content been protected from piracy? And what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy take down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know. What promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates?

The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be. What is your traffic breakdown by country? Tier one, countries like the usa, Canada, the uk, Germany, and Australia are the most preferred. Add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of, such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site? Do you use billing or affiliate software like Nats? What is your retention rate?

How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have a day? Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind? Can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this? How much did you spend to produce or buy the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth? Now we’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Dan Hogue of Porn Star Platinum and Trans Erotica.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Jay Kopita. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Robert Warren of 2much.net.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a network of 22 growing affiliate sites. These include adult and affiliate review sites and various top lists. The network has grown in traffic and income over time. This is due to the quality of the network’s seo. The network brings in large amounts of signups through pay per sale and rev share programs.

There are also many two-tier affiliate signups generating income monthly. The seller will be available to the buyer with some ideas on how to generate extra revenue that he didn’t have a chance to do himself and to train the new owner on the operation of the sites. We’ve just reduced the price on this listing from $474,000 to only $369,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and Adult Night Broker talk is Robert Warren of Too much.net as well as his own consulting firm.

Rob, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 27s): Oh, it was my pleasure. I’m so happy to be

Speaker 1 (2m 29s): Here. It’s great to have you. Now Robert is a 29 year veteran of the adult industry, focusing on SEO and marketing. Many know him for his professionalism and mentorship. He’s offered advice and guidance to company owners on down to new webmasters and sales reps. You can find him currently alongside longtime friend markPrince@toomuch.net handling marketing and SEO for the company. Rob has spoken at many adult shows including avn, Internet, the Phoenix Forum, Webmaster Access, and many more throughout the years.

Rob, it’s been a year since we spoke, so what’s been going on in your business life since then?

Speaker 2 (3m 9s): Oh, just having a blast. I mean, it’s amazing. You would think after so many years you would get bored of it, but it’s getting more and more exciting Since the last show. Obviously, you know, a lot of people heard what happened and, or sorry, heard the show and started contacting me and it was really, really nice just chatting with and meeting new people and, and people just wanting to get into the industry and getting advice.

And I think my favorite part is just helping a lot of them avoiding the pitfalls of wanting to get into it. Sure. While other ones who were in it were calling me up and helping them redirect their, their focus because they would’ve lost a lot of money if, if they continued on the way that they were doing. So it’s sure it’s so good to be able to help people out and you provided me that opportunity to help even more people out.

So greatly appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (4m 12s): Hey, you were one of our most listened to podcast. You must have had your aunts, your uncles, your your cousins, everyone listening to it

Speaker 2 (4m 23s): As long as it wasn’t my parole officer. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 (4m 26s): That’s a, that’s a, that’s a really good thing for sure. Now, during our last conversation, you’d mentioned that about half your life has been spent in the adult industry and before that you were a pastor. Now the industry is faced a lot of attacks for many sources, including the religious right, Lord knows, pun intended. Can you understand their view and how would you respond to them?

Speaker 2 (4m 51s): In part I do understand their view, though. I have to take a step back and say that the American versus the Canadian religious groups are radically different

Speaker 1 (5m 3s): And

Speaker 2 (5m 4s): Even where there is radical Yeah. Up here in Canada, there’s tends to be a lot more openness and forgiveness and not, not necessarily forgiveness, but just inclusiveness. Yeah. Like my eldest who’s trans, the church, just like, okay, you know, like, welcome with open arms and oh man, you know what, what, what does he go by? And it’s like, okay, so I said the name and whenever we’ve gone, it’s like everybody from the pastor right down through whoever we’re in contact with says his name the way he wants it.

Yeah. And, and is happy and treats him perfectly normally. And I’m just like, Wow. You know, yet in the US that’s a, that’s a totally different thing. The religious group in the US has really gotten their hands too much into politics.

Speaker 1 (6m 3s): Absolutely. And,

Speaker 2 (6m 4s): And has not only infected that has become a virus, but has influenced it in totally the wrong ways. That is nothing. And I, you know, and I don’t mean to say it this way, but it has go for it. Nothing to do with with biblical teachings or what the Bible says or anything. It is everything to do with their opinions and how they want things to, you know, for themselves.

Not for, but the Bible is so, you know, I’m, years ago when I was being interviewed once, I don’t know if you remember, they had a guy named Pastor Phelps. He’s from the Westboro Baptist Church, and he was the leader of a group that’s called God Hates Fs. And this organization would go literally to, you know, if you had a fallen soldier or something, and if he was homosexual, that they would go and pick at the funeral.

Speaker 1 (7m 11s): Yeah. I do remember that.

Speaker 2 (7m 14s): Terrible. And so I remember when somebody in the adult radio show business wanted to interview them, they had nobody that could stand up or at least could talk to them. Sure. And somebody got ahold of, you know, they got ahold of me and I was a, I was a regular on the show cuz they did that every Wednesday and they got ahold of me. And so I had it out with this guy. And initially at first we were fine, but when I started using logic in actual biblical facts, he was lost.

Speaker 1 (7m 46s): Oh, I bet.

Speaker 2 (7m 46s): And it, then it came down to opinions. And that being said, and to answer your question, what’s happening is, is they’re attacking not just the women right now, but you know, they’re gonna be heading towards areas that, you know, they’re gonna removing all the rights for the, for the gay community, they’re gonna get rid of the marriage. That’s their goals is to take America. And, you know, like a hundred years more in the past.

Sure. And they’re already working on the voting.

Speaker 1 (8m 20s): Yeah. I mean, what’s happened with, and it started with like Falwell and those guys, the moral majority love that Im

Speaker 2 (8m 31s): Majority

Speaker 1 (8m 32s): Yeah. I mean, what’s happened is the religious powers that be have hijacked the right. Totally hijacked them. And they’ve somehow convinced a lot of people that anything that isn’t the norm is wrong. And they’ve gotten the politicos to go along with them. Yeah. Let’s, let’s face it, the, the the right of of well, all of politics in America is jacked up and it needs a total redo.

The two party system is outmoded and they’re just, it doesn’t serve the people. About 85% of the people, I believe, think that abortion should be legal. And yet we’ve got one of our two parties voting against it every time. So, Well,

Speaker 2 (9m 27s): He, if I, if I can just interject here. Sure. I can show you the hypocrisy of all of this and of the very short sentence. And that is that if you remember during Covid, these people were standing up and they were screaming, you know, I’m not wanna wear masks and what was their chant? My body, my choice.

Speaker 1 (9m 48s): Yeah, exactly. And

Speaker 2 (9m 49s): Now when it comes to women in abortion and all this, they forgotten that mattress, that mantra. Yeah. And now they’re saying basically your body our choice.

Speaker 1 (9m 60s): Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. They try to tell people how to live their lives. Yeah. They tell people how to live their lives and you know, that’s kind of an American

Speaker 2 (10m 9s): Yeah,

Speaker 1 (10m 10s): Yeah. Kinda undemocratic for any democratic country. I like yours better. So, so last time we, we talked, we talked about you being a family man with five kids and you mentioned your eldest is trans and you have another child with I’ll see, said this right? Dubs okay. Syndrome. Yeah. That’s Now how has all this affected your business life?

Speaker 2 (10m 35s): I’m gonna say in one word, empathy.

Speaker 1 (10m 39s): Ah.

Speaker 2 (10m 40s): I mean, I’ve always tried to, to read and to learn about the industry and those who are within it, you know, the various cultures, the fetishes, the opinions. And Sure. During that time there was a lot that have escaped me, in other words that I just couldn’t get a handle on. Right. And I knew that there was areas that I needed growth on. People would say, you know, Oh, I’m trans, for example. And I’d be like, That’s good, but what the hell does that really mean?

And now that I’m going through this with my own team, I can now find myself at trade shows or, or just talking on the webmaster boards or wherever, and I can actually identify and I can strike up a conversation. I can relate Yes. And empathize rather than asking awkward questions or, or being like somebody who’s just like, you know, you’re kind of at arms length, you know, do it, but do it over there. Right. You know?

And so rather than just brush ’em off or ignore them, I can engage hoping that they’ll understand that, you know, my main purpose in talking is that, you know, I do consider people in the adult industry like an, like a family.

Speaker 1 (11m 57s): It is, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11m 58s): You know, and if you remember the old Lelo one stitch, what is it? Ohana like, you know, like means family and family means no one gets left behind or forgotten. And as we move ahead as an industry, we can’t leave people behind or forget them. And that also means the various smaller groups or whatever groups and, you know, we have to make sure that they’re aware that we’re here and, and that we can, we can relate, you know?

Okay. And we’re not gonna ignore.

Speaker 1 (12m 35s): Okay. Sounds good. You might want to turn the sound off on, on your computer there, so somebody wants you there. So the, the past few years we’ve dealt as an industry with Covid just like the rest of the world. Do you think Covid has had a positive or negative impact on our industry and why?

Speaker 2 (12m 55s): The positive is I think a lot of us who are there and, and, and helping people out to create websites and all of that, that people are, are, you know, they’re trying to play it smart. And so individuals who want to, I’m finding that more and more people who are now stuck at home or whatever, they, they’re all sudden going, Well let’s create a, a website, you know, and let’s do this. So that grew, A lot of people grew on that.

There’s also people who are obviously stressed and need relief. And so a lot of the seals specifically in the cam industry grew. Yeah. As, because Cams provide a relationship, so to speak, not necessarily a healthy one, but it did. And so there was a lot of loneliness and, and so that side of it grew on the negative. We lost too many damn good people.

Speaker 1 (13m 55s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (13m 57s): And also, Covid drove a wedge between the, the rest of the industry because as you already know, on the boards, some people refused to accept Covid as a reason for things. Yeah. And others were, you know, whether to get vaccinated or not. And there was a huge battle going on constantly. Yeah. And as we kept on fighting over that, more and more people died.

Speaker 1 (14m 27s): Yeah. I kind of found, I kind of found on the boards and in society in general, those were the same people who were staunch Trump supporters almost to, to a person. And quite frankly, I’ve had most of those people blocked, at least on ex bids where I spend most of my time. Yeah. Cause I just don’t have time. Well, I just, I don’t have time for politics anymore. The whole, the whole Jan since January 6th, my, my interest in politics is, is almost ni except where it affects our industry directly.

So, you know, I I I think that those, those are the same people and they’ve been invisible to me, which is a real good thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15m 8s): The other thing is a sad thing is the content. And that is that we sure, we already had a whole crap load of content on the net, but we were slowly reaching our limit as to what people wanted to watch. And then whatever was left was left, we couldn’t shoot anymore. Yeah. Basically. And then all of a sudden when people were shooting, we started getting new niches, we started getting porn, mass porn, quarantine, porn.

Exactly. Like, we really need a reminder of this

Speaker 1 (15m 48s): Inevitable.

Speaker 2 (15m 50s): No. But then, but then we had like, places like only fans, I mean, really they only happened because people were bored with porn movies and or gave up hope that the girl honestly enjoyed what she was doing. I mean,

Speaker 1 (16m 5s): I don’t, I don’t think people, the people who were the consumers of, of porn were necessarily born with porn board with porn movies. I think that what happened there was the whole creator thing took off because so many people were either outta work or just had a lot of time on their hands. And then obviously the whole only fans and their, you know, other companies like it, they took off because people found out you could make a lot of money there and the, the coal creator thing took, took off.

So I think that was a huge plus for the industry.

Speaker 2 (16m 44s): Well people when they watch, for example, webcams are only fans outside of just the appearance and visuals. They’re there because they want to develop a relationship. Sure. I’ve always said this when it comes to webcams and Oh yeah, I joined only fans with that. When you see somebody as beautiful, those girls get hit up or those people and only fans get hit up so much. Sure. With people wanting to have a connection. Sure. When you have a lot of that now more, especially during Covid, when it was quarantine, the other porn stuff that was on the tube sites, you know, you can only search for a topic so much before is just like, I’ve, I’ve seen it all.

Hmm. Or I’ve seen what I’ve wanted to see at the end of the day, good or bad, it still boils down to, you know, we lost too many people that we’ll never see again.

Speaker 1 (17m 40s): So we’ve recently seen major companies who are stable, suddenly have lots of issues. Mind geek obviously recently lost some senior executives along with over 200 of their employees. Now, is this something you saw coming and what do you think will be the fallout?

Speaker 2 (17m 58s): Well, remember when I talked about Phelps and those guys and the Christians when I talked a long time ago? Yeah. I mean, they’re behind a lot of this stuff. Not him in particular, but these, these, these religious groups are trying to attack and they’re not gonna stop at PornHub.

Speaker 1 (18m 18s): Right.

Speaker 2 (18m 18s): Eventually, I mean, you know, these credit card companies and everybody are gonna start, the processors are gonna start going to like X videos and hamsters. They’re gonna be down the road as well.

Speaker 1 (18m 30s): Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (18m 31s): And then we’re gonna get into, you know, like the stolen content and with all the efforts of the content producers matter, we’ll help, you know, it’s, it’s gonna, it’s gonna help, or sorry. I was gonna say, it’s all gonna be part of taking it down because at the time, and we’re talking a lot of tube sites out there, Right. And all of those tube sites don’t have original content. I mean, they have something that’s called a scraper and they just basically go to the other tube sites and scrape all of the movies.

And then many do their repertoire.

Speaker 1 (19m 5s): Yeah, many do. Yeah. But

Speaker 2 (19m 7s): Now that porn hub and that have to have all of the IDs and all the paperwork and everything, what do you think’s gonna happen to all these other tube sites that don’t have that?

Speaker 1 (19m 15s): That’s true.

Speaker 2 (19m 16s): They’re gonna be in, in the firing line eventually.

Speaker 1 (19m 19s): Yeah. If you can get to ’em, you know, I mean,

Speaker 2 (19m 22s): Get them,

Speaker 1 (19m 23s): There’s, there’s so many of them, man. Okay,

Speaker 2 (19m 25s): Let, let’s put it this way. Free to me has a, Yeah, why do I say that? Because look at all the, remember when we used to have all those free torrent sites Yeah. That you could download music and videos, all that kinda stuff. Right? Where are they? There’s still some,

Speaker 1 (19m 41s): There’s still, there’s still some up,

Speaker 2 (19m 43s): But not as much as they used to the podcast.

Speaker 1 (19m 45s): Oh, no, of course not. Because

Speaker 2 (19m 49s): If, you know, if somebody really, really wanted to get to them, the could, you know, that’s, And once again, I get back to the point of, you know, when we were younger, if watching the same type of porn was okay, then we would be perfectly happy with their first Playboy. And that would last just for life.

Speaker 1 (20m 12s): I

Speaker 2 (20m 13s): Remember we’re just wanting to see more. We’re always wanting to, to get into more things and then our imagination takes over. Yeah. And then, you know, eventually content companies, they’re just pushing out stuff and they don’t really thinking about, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a cookie cutting thing.

Speaker 1 (20m 32s): Well, and you know, I Rob, I think here’s the, here’s the thing, and I’ve always said this, you know, people say, Well, what’s gonna work? If you look at the most successful producers and companies and websites, these are the people that have a niche. They do content within that niche. And sometimes it’s quite specialized. And those are the people who have continued to do well, are the people who have really specialized.

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Yes. And the other thing is that, remember what I was talking about webcams, there are certain video clips or, or movies where you can tell that the model is like really into it. Right. You can tell that he or she is, is thoroughly enjoying it there and you get a connection with it. And if we can come out with models and, and there, they, it still gets back to what is connecting to the users.

Speaker 1 (21m 34s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21m 35s): And when they look at her eyes or when they watch the video clip, the ones that stand out in your mind right now, if you’ve ever watched porn, I don’t know if you have or not, but if you ever have, of course, the movies that stand out in your mind are the ones that you’ve made a connection with the model that drew some type of desire or passion or feeling that you’ve made a connections like that person’s really into what I’m into. Yeah. And I’m gonna keep watching this video again because I can relate or I feel something more.

Speaker 1 (22m 9s): Right.

Speaker 2 (22m 10s): With that particular video. Or,

Speaker 1 (22m 13s): Or at least they make you think they’re into it. Acting comes into

Speaker 2 (22m 17s): It, It’s all, it’s all a game. But at this end of the day, you can have a hundred videos, but you might only watch two or three over again a couple times. Why is that? Because you’ve connected to the model, you’ve connected to the scene, you’ve connected to the action. And right now, are we really coming up with content that’s doing that? Or are we just trying to, to fill the, you know, just fill the void with what we’ve got?

Sometimes I look, I look at sometimes some of the stuff and I, I just shake my head because you could tell that the model, you know, when they’re looking away, they’re, they’re looking to where their paycheck is sitting.

Speaker 1 (22m 59s): Exactly. It’s on, it’s on the ceiling. So, so you’re, so you’re coming close to 30 years in this industry. Okay. Yeah. Over the years you worked with multiple companies and still are, Do you ever see yourself retiring?

Speaker 2 (23m 16s): Oh God. You know, there’s an old saying that, you know, you, you hear people say that you’re a lucky person if you can love what you work at. And what I do, at least what I think I do is I connect with people and I really find that, you know, the, you know, the, the, the connections are what keeps me alive and keeps me going year after year talking to new people, helping ’em out, learning about them, you know? Right. Growing like that. I think that if this, I’m gonna call it the new industry, I, if it starts going in a way that I simply can’t support it anymore.

Right. You know, in, in allowing content,

Speaker 1 (23m 57s): How would that, well how would that be?

Speaker 2 (23m 59s): Honestly, I’ve seen more simulated underage content.

Speaker 1 (24m 4s): Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (24m 6s): I’ve,

Speaker 1 (24m 7s): Well, but that’s something the credit card companies will clamp down on really fast though.

Speaker 2 (24m 11s): There, there’s, there’s, if you look at POV stuff and you look at more of this family stuff, you know, incest and all that that’s coming out and all of this, and you just, like, where the hell did all this come from? I mean, remember the old days when the

Speaker 1 (24m 27s): Reason they, the reason they have it sadly, is it’s something that turns somebody on.

Speaker 2 (24m 32s): Yeah. But now we are, but now we’re getting into this whole realm where the content that’s being shot is, is kind of going into direction that just is like, Whoa, wait a minute here. There was times when we wouldn’t have even touched this. Hmm. You know?

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): Okay. And

Speaker 2 (24m 50s): The people, and the people that are in the industry, we have actually started to, to lose our connection with one another. And let me explain this. Okay. Like, I still don’t get a lot of great friends and, and for the past few years, and I’ve made friends, you know, but if you’re somebody here who, for example, if you take a break, like I’ve known one or two people who’ve taken a break and just say, Look, I’m stepping back for the industry.

I’m just gonna, you know, go do something else. And then, you know, and then they come back after like two years or something. Yeah. Like, I know one guy who was like king of the world, you know, he’d go to a trade show. Everybody wanted to be with him, Everybody wanted to be there. And now, you know, like, and he just felt burnt at the time. Sure. But then he wanted to come back and then it was just like, started to be, nobody’s ever heard of him, you know? So, I mean, there’s people now that think that they’re legendary and, but see what happens when you don’t post for about a year or two.

Speaker 1 (25m 56s): Well, hey, here’s the thing. Okay. And not everybody posts Rob, but, but here’s, here’s the thing. Okay. If you go away for a period of time, a whole new group of people join the industry and they don’t know you. So to, to them you are new, You need to reestablish your reputation with them. Well, you need to establish your reputation cuz you don’t have one.

Speaker 2 (26m 20s): And that also includes that awards, at least in my mind, Don’t mean Deadly Squad

Speaker 1 (26m 27s): Awards

Speaker 2 (26m 28s): Last you, you are winning of an award last till New Year’s

Speaker 1 (26m 32s): If

Speaker 2 (26m 32s): That, you know, because it’s like,

Speaker 1 (26m 35s): That’s a whole other subject.

Speaker 2 (26m 37s): Oh, don’t even get me started on that. I, I I’ve got, you know, I’ve seen people that tell those things and it’s like, yeah, okay, maybe that was back in that year. What about now? You know?

Speaker 1 (26m 48s): Yeah. And let’s, let’s face it, some awards are legitimate, most are not. And it does, it does seem like a small group of people win the lion share the awards and it all comes back to the, to the Bro club Yep.

Speaker 2 (27m 9s): And advertisers and things like

Speaker 1 (27m 11s): That. Oh, well, well that goes, that kind of goes without saying, doesn’t it? That kind of goes without saying. I mean, I mean, there are, there are exceptions. You get somebody like Brad from Mojo Host who has won so many awards. Well, he deserves it. He has a great company. But, you know, that doesn’t mean there aren’t other good web hosts out there.

Speaker 2 (27m 30s): Yeah. You and I are entered in dangerous territory right

Speaker 1 (27m 32s): Now. So I, you know what? I don’t really give a flip. I mean, I’ve got, I’ve got my, the people who like me and the people who hate me, and it’s not, it’s not necessarily gonna change. And like I said, like I said, Brad’s very deserving. Okay. I congratulate him every time he wins an award. With that said, he’s not the only web host. Okay. And, and there are people who win awards year after year after year where they’re competition potentially for the award.

They should win something. I mean, let’s face it, it’s a popularity contest. And you’re right. The being an advertiser quite often is what wins you these things. So somebody’s, if somebody’s offended by that, I’m sorry. No, I’m not really sorry.

Speaker 2 (28m 24s): So, Well,

Speaker 1 (28m 25s): I

Speaker 2 (28m 25s): Can end with this Brad for Mojo. I know you’re listening. If you win the Xbi Newcomer of the Year award,

Speaker 1 (28m 35s): That could be a problem. Yeah, that could be. I’m

Speaker 2 (28m 37s): Gonna have a,

Speaker 1 (28m 38s): Okay. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 (28m 40s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 40s): That could, that could definitely be a problem. And if you win and if you win the newcomer of the, of the year, I’ve got a, I’ve got a problem with that. Okay. Yeah. So,

Speaker 2 (28m 50s): One, I got lost in the mail a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (28m 52s): Yes, it did. So well, mine too. So one thing I’ve noticed is that you don’t promote yourself at all on the boards these days while others do. Why is that? Well,

Speaker 2 (29m 4s): I mean, we just had the quick conversation. I mean, I don’t really covert awards and, you know, my feelings about that. I think, as I said, it’s, it’s a domino effect. Like on the boards, as I said, I, I talk to people like family and, and you and people request help and all that stuff. And you know, I I I don’t sit there and say, Hey, I’m an SEO monkey, you know, and I hate it.

I absolutely hate it when people use the word expert or that somebody knows everything about everything. Well, nobody does it. It really does because there is no, there is no such thing, you know, I’m sorry. That’s true. But I get several Skypes and emails a day and they basically start off all the same. It’s like, so and so recommended you that I should ask you this question. And you know, and I’m there and I help them out. And, you know, if people see what I’m writing on the boards, you notice that when I post things, I don’t, you know, I post about the topic or whatever.

I don’t really, I just don’t push it out there. The first order of my business is to gain trust into relationship. Sure. You know, because people buy and work with those people that they trust. Right. And if you’re not trustworthy to be honest and do what you say you’re gonna do, then, you know, and if, sorry, if that, if that’s what you’re doing, then a new client is built. Clients at the end of the day are my boss. Yeah. And I just perform and I, you know, but, but I also need to train and teach them Sure.

As well. Not just to show ’em that they made the right choice. Right. For me. But, you know, we can also have higher levels of discussions. And with that being said, if you’re training somebody and you’re teaching somebody, if you’ve developed a relationship with them, they’re more willing to take it in and know that when you’re giving them advice and you’re talking about their site or, or SEO or whatever, because a lot of times they do more than just seo. I’m giving people advice on their business and, and everything from marketing to, you know, what to buy and what do whatever.

But they do that because they trust. Cause they honestly know that I care about who they are and what they’re doing. And, and I’m helping them. I wanna see them succeed. And if they’re honestly at that point where they’re, they, they really do want to succeed for the right reasons Right. Then, then I’m there to help them along. And that’s great. And at the end of the day, you know, when you got people who have succeeded, bosses talk.

Yeah. You know, and when bosses talk, they recommend, and at times that will be me. And so sure. When that happens, I would rather get a client from a referral, which I do then promote myself. Because, you know, you’re starting off from squares, you know, back down to Square zero again. Yeah. Somebody says, Hey, you know, this guy’s really helped my company. We’ve, we’ve grown our, our traffic has grown by a thousand percent or 2000 and he’s really helped me out and in more than we used in one.

I really think you need to talk to this guy. I want a client like that. Of course, of course. Don’t we all, because that guy will call me up and he’s saying, Look, you got very well recommended and you know, what can you do? What can we do together? And then, you know, know on good terms to start.

Speaker 1 (32m 41s): Yep. So, so thinking back over the years, what is it that you miss in this industry that isn’t around anymore that you believe we could all benefit from?

Speaker 2 (32m 51s): There’s so many different answers. Give me, I guess the first way that I could answer that is with the number 42

Speaker 1 (33m 0s): Jackie Robinson?

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): No, no, that’s, that’s Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Okay. But actually, if I was to count, and th this is why I say 42, if I count and I have how many webmaster boards have on my list, There’s like 42. Hmm. But actively right now, like we, you’re basically looking at Xbi G FY and that kind of stuff, right? Yep. Like, there’s very, very, very few that are left.

And most of those other message boards, if you remember back in the day, I mean, they were all just basically promotional tools for, for the affiliate companies,

Speaker 1 (33m 44s): Pretty much.

Speaker 2 (33m 46s): And affiliate companies would advertise on these boards, and so everybody would start them up and, but now that there’s not the affiliate dollars going into those boards, suddenly they’re, they’re off.

Speaker 1 (33m 56s): Oh, yeah. And, and I think the whole message board concept has been taken over by Facebook groups and the like.

Speaker 2 (34m 2s): Yeah. But back in the day without Tubes, affiliate programs basically ruled more the, the message boards. Sure. That gave us the chance to connect to each other. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34m 17s): But you still, well you still have it on X Biz and also G fy, although I don’t spend a lot of time over there,

Speaker 2 (34m 24s): So limited.

Speaker 1 (34m 25s): Well, yeah. Bec quite frankly, here’s, here’s the biggest problem I find and it’s, it’s something that’s infected all social media, including adult social media, is politics. And that is what has driven most people away from the industry boards, the ones that still exist. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34m 46s): Yeah. I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (34m 48s): And I mean, ex Xbi used to have tons of posts and tons of questions about the business and hey, I’m, I’m starting this and will you take a look at this site? And it also would have a lot more people who were experienced and had been around a long time and were actual owners of sites and companies on there. You don’t see much of that anymore. And the ones who are on or on a lot less, cuz quite frankly they don’t wanna go through all the political posts and everything.

There’s just too much bs I mean all, all, all it’s become is a, is is a bitch forum.

Speaker 2 (35m 28s): Back in the day when there was all this, I think I was at one point I was moderator on six of them. And what I, I think is also we’ve done is we’ve lost the ability, and I mean this in all sincerity, we’ve lost the ability to mentor one another and which also means having a code of conduct.

Speaker 1 (35m 50s): Right.

Speaker 2 (35m 51s): You know, and we found that out, especially this week when somebody came on the board and basically told somebody something that they should not have. Hmm. And this person was a mentor and a veteran and the person called her cunt.

Speaker 1 (36m 10s): And

Speaker 2 (36m 11s): I was stunned

Speaker 1 (36m 13s): Because

Speaker 2 (36m 14s): This is a veteran, this is somebody who’s done so much for so many people and person.

Speaker 1 (36m 19s): That’s a good way, it’s a good way to get yourself banned. Which hopefully they were,

Speaker 2 (36m 22s): They were good. It actually was, according to somebody was like the quickest band ever happened.

Speaker 1 (36m 28s): Good. Was this, was this on? Was this on?

Speaker 2 (36m 32s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (36m 34s): Missed.

Speaker 2 (36m 36s): That’s what happens when you miss a meeting. Yeah. Well, but we, we have lost the ability to mentor one another. And that’s why I think that I’ve been around for so long is I do that. Yeah. And with that comes along with the vanguard, the old days is that there was a code of conduct. Yeah. Trades were more about trades for about adult networking and fun. Yeah. Showing off making entertains truly porn stars, industry veterans were legends and experts and you know, and now, you know, now we’ve got this slick software that’s out there that an actuality is very limited, but everything they can, everybody thinks that they can get away with doing their own designing and programming and SEO and marketing without the need of anyone else who’s actually trained for it.

And you know, back in the day, we, we had people that when they came in to actually do business, they had capital behind them rather than a limited budget that basically be a drop in the water

Speaker 1 (37m 37s): Sometimes. Sometimes you had upstarts though, and some of the upstarts did very well.

Speaker 2 (37m 42s): Yeah. And they did. I think the, the, the key thing, and this has happened in the past as it does now, and that the one thing that is lacked over the years is creativity. You know, yes you’ve got design and content marketing and seo, but if you get one company who does it, who’s a little bit creative and then everyone else steals it and reformats it and does the same process

Speaker 1 (38m 7s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (38m 8s): And you know, now people just kinda like, like I challenge anyone to find an adult company, for example, a webcam site. We’re more than 80% of the traffic comes from, for example, social media. Back in the day we didn’t really have social media as much.

Speaker 1 (38m 27s): Right, Right.

Speaker 2 (38m 28s): We worked really hard on, you know, you, you got traffic and we worked on analytics and we used it properly. Right. And we got people back onto, you know, the proper way of being able to build a site.

Speaker 1 (38m 44s): Yep.

Speaker 2 (38m 45s): Now you have people who call themselves experts who go out there like, you know, oh, social media is the way to go. And I’m like, my god, I have seen so many traffic overviews of multiple sites and every single one of them, when you look at social media, it is down to, of all of the traffic, whether it’s a million, you know, of hits or whatever like that, of all the traffic, less than, let’s say four to 8% of all of those companies are from social media.

If you take that number, you can break it down even more

Speaker 1 (39m 22s): Sure. By

Speaker 2 (39m 24s): To YouTube and all this kind of stuff. Right. Sure. But most of them are under 3% and you know, I can, I can think of like seven campsite right off the bat in the past two years, tried to rely solely on social media probably because it was free to them and they spent so much time, so much time on it. Sure. And some of them got some traffic, some of them’s very little, they spent massive amount of time or whatever.

And the, but the end of the day, the conversions simply weren’t air.

Speaker 1 (40m 0s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (40m 1s): And they had little impact on sales. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40m 4s): So some who were listening to the podcast have either just started or are gonna soon start their own website. What advice can you give them to do and what not to do?

Speaker 2 (40m 14s): Well, we were just talking about it. I mean, anyone who’s claiming that there to be an expert or promises you tons of traffic at little or no cost, well the reality is it does take effort and cost. Sure. You don’t think that it will, that it’s that it will happen. That then you’re gonna be disappointed in it and try not to rely upon, you know, free online software for things like SEO or for whatever Right. To solve all your problems because it, you, it only handles a certain amount of your website and it’s very limited.

Right. You know, and in, but you do need, and this goes back to what we talked about before. We need mentors and we need knowledgeable people that give advice and Right. And people have gotten away from doing that for looking for those mentors because they think that this piece of software, when they Google it, is gonna solve their problems. Sure. And if you’re shooting content, shoot what you enjoy and Right. And if not, then do your research. Shoot what your users want or will want learn it, study it and be willing to admit that you’re wrong and change, seek out a mentor if you can.

And they might be expensive, but the cost of you making mistakes is gonna be even higher. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41m 38s): And you know, mentors don’t always cost money. I mean

Speaker 2 (41m 42s): Yeah, that’s true.

Speaker 1 (41m 43s): You know, my mentor, my, and he’s the one who introduced me to you when I first started in the industry, and I consider you one as well because you were always very helpful, helpful with your advice was Bob Rice. And, and I know Bob’s name isn’t necessarily positive to everyone. Me, Hey,

Speaker 2 (42m 0s): You and I have the same mentor.

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Yeah. Oh, okay. Well Bob’s name might not be positive to everyone who’s listening because of some things a company he was associated with did at the end. I

Speaker 2 (42m 11s): I, I’ve, I’ve learned that recently too.

Speaker 1 (42m 13s): Yeah. But at the same time, I think Bob walks on water. He’s one of the smartest guys I’ve ever met in this industry. And he really gave me, well, more than once he actually got me started, not only in the industry, he had a, I think it was in, was an audio or a video, a program that talked about starting a site. And I wish I had taken more of the advice cuz when I got it, I was already far down the road and then made a lot of mistakes.

But then Bob was instrumental in me getting into the website brokering. So I’ve got, because he was doing it at one time. So I’ve got a lot of, really a lot to thank Bob for. So, you know, mentors aren’t, don’t always cost money sometimes and quite often. Yeah. It’s just somebody that you meet at a show or you connect with on ex biz, which I think is, is really the biggest, most valuable tool of that type of platform is to ask questions.

And you can ask questions of the community on X business. That’s one of the things I love about it cuz I’m always there to answer the questions. You’re always there to answer the questions. Mark’s always there to answer the questions, the regulars, and unfortunately we’re down to just the regulars, Steve from Groupy is always very giving with this time. The people who are the regulars will answer questions if you ask them. And if you reach out to them and send them a private message, people are more than happy to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (43m 45s): Yeah. And, but that’s what I’m saying is that we need the mentors and Yeah. Do you

Speaker 1 (43m 51s): Think they’re out there? I still think there,

Speaker 2 (43m 52s): There, there are people out there who, when they make suggestions, sometimes they make suggestions that are not necessarily in the best interest.

Speaker 1 (44m 2s): Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (44m 4s): Yeah. Okay. And, and for example, if you remember the days, you know, or it’s like, you know, Oh, who do you recommend to do this? Well, why don’t you use this company because you recommended that company because you get, let’s say 5%. Well,

Speaker 1 (44m 19s): Yeah. And that still, and that obviously still goes on, but I’ll tell you something, even in the case where I will get a referral fee or a commission from somebody and I don’t go out, go searching those out because I get offered them as I’m sure you do on a daily basis. And I, I turn away virtually every deal because Yeah. They, they want me, they wanna put me on commission because obviously I wear a mark, I wear the marketing hat too, and I tell that’s not what I do.

But if, if it’s a service that I believe is worthy, I will recommend them. But I’m not gonna recommend somebody just to make money. I’ll recommend them if I believe in them as I know you will. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 1s): I, I, I’ve never accepted any of those offers because my reasoning being is that if I accept that, then I will never, ever be able to give you 100% accuracy and truthfulness that my recommendation is true and the best it can be. And yes, it’s okay for you to check out somebody, but if you honestly think that maybe it might go somewhere else, then, then, okay,

Speaker 1 (45m 29s): Hey, I don’t think there’s, I don’t think there’s really anything wrong if you do believe in it to accept something, but I, but I, I can, Hey, you’re a better man than I am. And I, I haven’t really taken a lot of commissions from people. I mainly do it in the case of like processing and things like that where obviously out.

Speaker 2 (45m 48s): Yeah. It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do. That’s just me and what I do. Okay. Anybody, I mean, I’m not pointing fingers of anybody who does that. I’m just Well,

Speaker 1 (45m 57s): You better not. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 59s): So, okay, so getting back to the other, Okay, so we talked about seeking on a mentor. We talked about finding a trusted processing company, Find a good industry lawyer, please for God’s sakes, try not to use WordPress things for seo. If you’re gonna have pictures up and videos, don’t use numbers on them like 2, 3, 4, 2, 3 jpeg because Right.

Speaker 1 (46m 25s): You need

Speaker 2 (46m 26s): Can’t rank that and, and can’t collect that.

Speaker 1 (46m 30s): Why do you, by the way, why do you say not to use WordPress? Because I’m a, I’m a WordPress believer and I, my sites are in WordPress. Obviously I don’t have membership sites, but why do you say not to use WordPress?

Speaker 2 (46m 44s): There are at times, and Mark would jump in on, on this one as well. There are at times when it comes to programming and or various other things, even with seo right? That it’s more difficult working with WordPress than creating a different site. Also, there are certain security things that can happen with WordPress that doesn’t happen with other sites. Now I know that Brad at Mojo and all that can create some certain security, but I’ve seen more breaches happen on WordPress and problems happening with WordPress and I have

Speaker 1 (47m 21s): With, Oh, Don, I know. Yeah, I know there’s problems.

Speaker 2 (47m 23s): That’s, that’s all that I’m saying. You know, that’s, I don’t wanna get, I don’t bash them at all. I’m just, just saying my recommendation personally is, is for that. Okay. The other thing is never assume that your brilliant ideas groundbreaking because sure. Somebody has thought of it in the past and they failed and find out why. Yeah. Be flexible with your programmer on advice. Be gracious, uplifting on the webmaster boards.

Don’t get into a pissing match, but finally is read, read and read more strong wise leadership and, and you should be able to go far.

Speaker 1 (48m 5s): Now, any general words of advice to people in the industry that you would give before we close out?

Speaker 2 (48m 11s): I would think in the industry, and this is gotta listen here, I’ve said this before, the industry is the only, and I’m gonna use the term army, okay? We’re the only army that shoots its own wounded. So we have to stop attacking one another. Yes. We have to start helping each other through, as I said, mentoring, but mostly support those in the battle for our rights.

Right. And be aware to fight all the attacks that are happening for the government society. Yes. From owners to models. Everyone did. Yeah. Because if we’re, if we’re just constantly nailing one another, we’re missing out on who the, on what’s really attacking us.

Speaker 1 (48m 59s): Yeah. It’s a circular firing squad, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (49m 2s): Yeah. And so that would be my only advice to the industry is, you know, like we literally are one of the only armies that shoot its own wounded.

Speaker 1 (49m 13s): That’s funny. But it’s unfortunately it’s true. Hey Rob, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (49m 24s): I hope so too. And thank you so much, Bruce, for the opportunity and also for giving of your time and, and expertise in mentoring other people through just the podcast. I appreciate all that you’re doing as well and it’s a pleasure every time to be here.

Speaker 1 (49m 40s): Thank you, Ron. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about trademarking your site and ways to make it unique. Next, when you decide to sell your site, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers. Detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspects of your operation that potential buyers may wanna find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images and number of videos, how much of it is exclusive and how much is non exclusive financial information for at least the last three years if your company is that old.

This should include sales reports, profit and loss statements, and billing reports. Get all the information organized and legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself. Organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know, such as are you being sued?

Do you have any substantial debts or anything else? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy, or they’ll find out after the sale and you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands. Disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Jay Kopita of Why not. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Robert Warren.

Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Kole Snodgrass of Full Swap Radio.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to present a one of a kind unique and legendary site. It’s a pro amateur ethnic reality site founded all the way back in 2005. The site is styled after popular late night variety shows like the tonight show viewers never know what to expect with a variety of different performers from brand new amateur talents to famous porn stars. There is no other website, quite like it.

The site continues to grow and expand with no major competitors in this niche. What makes it unique is their 100% original content that has uncensored and unscripted reality TV style scenes. They let the performers be themselves while having fun filming the video trailers are short web episodes that engage the viewers and are immensely popular online. Almost all the traffic is organic with some affiliate traffic. It runs on a custom built script, which has been maintained and updated.

The site gets about 20 joins and 40 rebuilds a day. It’s ranked number 16 in the USA on X videos, only $1.4 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Cole Snodgrass of full swap radio Cole. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 53s): Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (2m 56s): I appreciate your time now, Cole and miss Amanda, like to joke, they are the longest one night stand you’re ever gonna meet. They met in college in 1992. You’re young. You guessed it on a one night stand and they’ve been together ever since they’ve been in the lifestyle for five years. During those five years, they witnessed a gradual change with more lifestyle people starting Facebook groups. It seemed like more cliques were forming. It felt like if you weren’t one of the cool kids, then your experience in the lifestyle lifestyle suffered.

They also witnessed how hard it was for new couples and individuals to be accepted with established groups and clubs. So in March of 2017, crazy Cosmo was born. Did I say that? Right? Like the song you did. Okay, good, good. That a lot of phonetic stuff in, in this script also born that day was the concept of swinging with attitude. Change is never easy and this change has been no different since that first night crazy Kaba has grown to include eight different Facebook pages, multiple chat groups, a radio showed called crazy truth, and that’s with a K and SBAs rans podcast, full swap shop merchandise store and their online radio station, full swap radio.

Their podcasts have a dedicated audience and now have over 85,000 followers. Their goal is to push for a safer, more inclusive lifestyle for everyone. So did you like your commercial Cole?

Speaker 2 (4m 27s): I did. That was awesome.

Speaker 1 (4m 28s): I, I do

Speaker 2 (4m 29s): Love best. I, that was great.

Speaker 1 (4m 30s): I do my best. So Cole, what caused you to go from lifestyle participant to creating your own company?

Speaker 2 (4m 39s): I’m a, I’m a realist. And at the time I was, I was in the professional real world. I was a car salesman and in a car business. And so my time was exceedingly valuable. Yeah. And what would happen is we would go to these events. We would go to meet and greets and go to things. And there was just so much shenanigan, so much fluff, so much clickiness. It was like, this is, this is, people are making this way too difficult.

And it was just like, you know what? I’m, I’m a person that I’m a doer. I see something let’s solve it. And I, a lot of people can tell you the stories of me going, you know, if a guy was smart, he would start his own page. And finally just reached that boiling point where it was like, you know what? This is, this is stupid. This, this is not the way this should be. And on the odds of March, we started crazy CA I miss Amanda woke up the next morning and went, I’m an admin of what?

And way we went.

Speaker 1 (5m 41s): Yeah. Interesting. So you weren’t really in the lifestyle too long before you did this, right?

Speaker 2 (5m 49s): Not really. I mean, we, we, we, we’d only been in about five years and, and at that point, so we had seen things and we had gotten,

Speaker 1 (5m 56s): So you had been in it five years before you started it.

Speaker 2 (5m 59s): Right.

Speaker 1 (5m 60s): Okay. Okay. Got it.

Speaker 2 (6m 2s): So, but we were still, you know, anytime you say, you think you’ve seen it all experienced it all, you’ll be proven wrong. And, and really right. Even five years in is still kind of newbies to a degree, but sure. We had seen this and we’d seen enough. And it was like, you could still, you knew what it felt like to be new. We were still new enough, those feelings of trying to break in those circles and those clicks and those groups, we could see what could be. And I, I could see how much better it could be and what the Midwest was lacking.

And so the joke was that I just wanted to take over the world and a way we went and we’ve never looked back

Speaker 1 (6m 39s): Now, you’re in Nebraska of all places. It’s, you know, I mean, maybe it’s a being, being a California, and now I live in Thailand. So that’s all screwed up. But talk about preconceptions. If you think about, think about the adult industry, think about the lifestyle, and then you think about Nebraska. So how, how do those mesh

Speaker 2 (7m 5s): Well, and, and honestly, that’s, they didn’t, and, and that was really part of the problem is that, you know, the, the Midwest is so such a flyover, flyover states, Nebraska is a flyover state. And so you didn’t hear there wasn’t

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): You said, you said it. I didn’t.

Speaker 2 (7m 24s): Yeah. Yep. Trust me. I’ve apologized many times for the things I’ve said about states, but we didn’t hear about the big events on the coast cuz people didn’t, people don’t understand that demographically, a state like Nebraska, we have the most billionaires of any state in the union. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 43s): You’ve

Speaker 2 (7m 43s): Got a lot, you know, our people, they may buy combines, but they pay a million dollars in cash for those combines. And when they’re not farming, they’re going cruises and all kinds of stuff. So we were kind of just left in the lurch and sure. Part of what we, what I, what we have done is we have built the fact that we’re not flyover anymore. You’re not gonna get through the Midwest without seeing us.

Speaker 1 (8m 10s): Yeah. And

Speaker 2 (8m 11s): Our events. And we laugh all the time that if we had lived on the east or the west coast, I’d probably be closer to my goal of taking over the world actually.

Speaker 1 (8m 24s): So tell me about the podcast. Actually, you got more than one, but who have been some of your favorite guests so far and why?

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): You know, so the podcast, there’s so many different types of shows out there. And as we’ve looked at, we, we wanted, we made every mistake you could make as, as a new couple in the lifestyle, of course. And so we wanted our show to be one that was really an added value. And to be honest with you, we really haven’t, we haven’t done done very many interviews, had to interview people on our show because our show has been completely listener driven.

So we answer questions from our that we get sent to us, emailed into us, mailed into us, come to us on our, some of our Facebook groups. And it’s been a, an incredible experience because when you get the response from the folks that ask you the questions, they listen to the show and they go, you’ve changed my life.

Speaker 1 (9m 25s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (9m 26s): That is without a doubt at just a, a tremendous feeling. And, and you know, our, show’s not the biggest show out there. I’m sure we could be bigger if we told more sex stories and did some other things. That’s just not our gig. We try to keep it pretty. I can be opinionated. People who know me will find that hard to believe. So we try, we try to keep that separate. And that’s where, that’s where then SBAs rants came up, which is my own show where I have no adult supervision. And again, we’re, I’m, I’m tackling issues in the lifestyle.

And when we have people come up and go, wow, I felt like this show was, this episode was written specifically for me. And I’m really gonna change, or I’ve made changes because of it. That’s the greatest feeling in the world.

Speaker 1 (10m 10s): Yeah. Definitely with the call in format and sorry for my ignorance, obviously I, I, I, I haven’t listened, but so how has that gone?

Speaker 2 (10m 22s): So I I’m gonna backtrack cuz it ties in with the whole thing. There’s always a method to my madness, our, our logos. And you’ll, you’ll see our logos on everything has the middle finger that’s hence the, the swinging with an attitude. And it was, it was really funny when we started our show. When we first started out, anytime you do something different, you attract haters. It is what it is. Oh sure. And, and when you, you rock the status quo, you’re gonna have haters. And of course we start all, every one of our podcasts, pod podcasts, excuse me, start off with me going, Hey, you crazy motherfuckers, welcome to another edition of crazy truth.

We were getting called. You can go back several years and find on Twitter where people were calling us shock jocks. You can’t say those things. You can’t be that’s insulting. What it was is that let’s face it. We’ve all been in situations where we’re just fed up tired, pissed off, whatever you wanna say. And we just kind of wanna say bucket it. I mean, it’s a horrible way to put it, but it, you know,

Speaker 1 (11m 25s): No, it’s the way it is. That’s that’s my vocabulary.

Speaker 2 (11m 29s): Yeah. Well it, it really is. And, and sometimes, you know, you, flowery language is beautiful, but sometimes you have to break things down to the most basic common denominator. And what we found was with the show and, and with everything we’ve done is the people we were told on a national level, this will never fly, blah, blah, blah. What we found is the people just needed a pied Piper. They needed somebody who was willing to stand in front of the crowd and go, don’t be afraid. Follow me.

Let’s go stand your ground. And, and, and, and that’s been with the show with, with everything we’ve resisted the urges to, to switch to more of a, I’ll call it a penthouse forum concept. You know, we’ve just, we blaze our own trail and that’s, everybody wants to do that. They need somebody that can say the things that they want to say. Sure. But maybe they don’t have the courage to say or don’t feel like they can say, and that’s what we come in.

Speaker 1 (12m 27s): Sure. So, so far, what do you feel your biggest accomplishment with your business is in the lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (12m 35s): Really? Honestly, I think Ms. Mann and I both feel like it, it’s just the, the amount of, of impact we have had on people’s lives. Every single day. We are honored and privileged to get emails from people, thanking us for talking about the things that, the true questions that they had or talking about the things nobody else has giving them honest advice, whether it’s what they want to hear sometimes or not.

We have that interaction has been tremendous. And really I’ll tell you the number one, the number one. And this goes with our episode, best episode that we’ve done still our most popular we had, I had a testicular cancer and it was, it was, it was a weird situation. I was fine on one Sunday. And on the following Saturday, I was having a testicle removed

Speaker 1 (13m 33s): For shit.

Speaker 2 (13m 34s): And it was case number 121 in the world ever. My, my nut is famous. Boom, the, the Sunday after

Speaker 1 (13m 44s): I, you got that’s what you got that going for you.

Speaker 2 (13m 46s): Yeah. Yeah. And I’m totally fine. And, and, but the Sunday, after the, after we had it removed on Saturday, the following day, we recorded a show and we did a couple of shows about men’s health and, and about, Hey, you know, being tested. My urologist is now a fan of our show. We still have people come up and say, you know, I, I had my cuz testicular cancers generally at a younger man’s situation, walk up and say, Hey, we’ve had, we had our kids listen to it.

Our sons about checking themselves and other men have come and said, Hey, we’ve went in now and got checked. And it saved me. They, they found prostate cancer early because of it, when you can do that is a business and have fun. That’s a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (14m 33s): Yeah, no, it definitely is. It definitely is. And I’m, I’m sure glad you’re okay. Now you initially had some frustrations about the lifestyle. Do you think, do you think things have gotten better or have they gotten worse?

Speaker 2 (14m 48s): I truly, we feel like it, it it’s, they’re moving in the right direction. I think there are some areas that are just going to require continuous preaching, basically continuous revisiting. I think there are things that, that we can all do as members of the community in the lifestyle and as participants to make it better. But I, but I think it takes work. And I think that we have to continuously be diligent in our efforts to achieve those goals.

I mean, we, we pushed things like consent. We, we pushed, we’ve teamed up with different people like nightcaps, for example, for safety at parties to, to stop this damn spiking of drinks that happens at events, you know, we push security at our events. Sure. A raising of the bar of what the expectation is in the lifestyle is necessary. It’s, it’s starting to happen slowly. There’s a long way to go. Right. And, and, and I have to put in there right now with the current environment of the world that we live in.

I think that it is important that we help the rest of the world, understand the difference between the stereotypical swingers, which is obviously false and narrative, as we all know, right. To what really is the lifestyle and, and part of that’s how we behave and what we do. So I think it’s moving in the right direction, but it’s, it’s a constant effort and there’s no, there’s not an end date, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (16m 24s): Yeah, totally. Now it, it seems from our conversations, like you’re looking at getting both lifestyle and adult businesses to advertise as well as mainstream companies. Why is that?

Speaker 2 (16m 37s): Well, so our philosophy, okay. So obviously being in Nebraska, I grew up in Omaha, which is Warren buffet. The Oracle of Omaha lives in Nebraska. And, and so I’ve been surrounded by that concept, the Berkshire Hathaway concept, my entire life. And, and, and quite honestly, there’s a, there’s a misnomer out there that adult businesses or lifestyle businesses need to operate under some sort of unique system because they’re adult businesses. And the reality of it is, is that until adult businesses are listed in the top 100 and top 50 corporations of the world, I think the regular business model actually is, is very effective and needs to be applied.

Right? I am firm believer that when you look at the demographics of the lifestyle of the swinging community, it is a company’s dream target audience, 35 to 55, $180,000, average household income income. They own their own homes. You know, this is a target market. Yes. But our job is we have to educate them that being the, the vanilla world to let them know that, Hey, look, just because our hobby is different, your hobby might be golf.

My hobby might be a little bit different. You know what? I still buy grills. I still wear jeans. I still sure we’re still people. And, and I truly believe as we break that barrier down and, and we show vanilla manufacturers and vanilla companies, the value of advertising and working with adult companies, quality adult companies, it’s going to open up more sponsorship dollars for events,

Speaker 1 (18m 19s): Right?

Speaker 2 (18m 20s): I mean, let’s face it, you know, at, at this point in time, there’s only so many lifestyle companies that can sponsor big lifestyle events or B sponsors. There’s a limited amount of dollars, but sure. If all of a sudden you can open up and Coca-Cola, for example, could be a sponsor. Well, that’s gonna improve the quality of the lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (18m 38s): And

Speaker 2 (18m 38s): I just think it will, it will cause the businesses within the lifestyle to raise their games, to meet the expectations of the regular corporate America as well.

Speaker 1 (18m 47s): Yeah. And, you know, corporate America has, has avoided the adult industry, like the plague and including the lifestyle, Obviously the recent barrage of right wing religious attacks on adult with the help of media outlets. Like the New York times was subscription. I canceled when they went after mine geek. Yep.

You know, I mean, I vote with my money. What can I say? But it’s interesting because if you would asked 20 years ago, if I ever thought that mainstream companies would invest dollars in the L G B T community, which is now L G T Q plus, I would’ve said, you’re crazy now they, can’t not, I wonder what it’s gonna take to get them to invest in adult.

Speaker 2 (19m 47s): Well, and you know, and, and I think that’s a, I think you, you, you put an interesting question there. And I, I think that just like every other aspect of the lifestyle, it’s about education. If, if we can show an adult or vanilla company, let let’s say a bar, for example, if we can go and show that that bar, how, Hey, look, people are gonna walk in with S screaming, worse, swingers, worse, swingers, and chase your patrons away. They’re not going to come in and try to have sex with every person they see any, any different than any other vanilla person would at a bar, you know?

Right. They’re, they’re actually gonna be very low key they’re whatever, but they’ll spend more money and they can actually see, wait a minute, that image that we’ve seen on TV, that’s, that’s a stereotype. That’s not real

Speaker 1 (20m 35s): Sure. And,

Speaker 2 (20m 36s): And I think as we educate, and the other thing is, I believe with the right wing things going on in the world right now, this, the lifestyle community is going to, to be in need of, of partners. And because at some point in time, the problem with zealots is that they eventually will turn on you too. And we’re not, as, we’re not as big as at, you know, what do they say, 12 to 15 million lifestyle people in the us.

And you know, we’re gonna need companies to go now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, hold on a second here. We’re, we’re gonna need partners. And I think that’s gonna be very, very important.

Speaker 1 (21m 18s): Now in recent years, it seems the lifestyle is integrated a lot with the rest of the adult industry. Why do you think that is? And do you think there’s room for more cooperation between the two?

Speaker 2 (21m 30s): You know, I think that with the, with the improvement in things like cell phones and, and things like that, you know, and, and we do it as well. Miss Amanda has an only fan’s account and, and, you know, the ability to, to shoot content, you know, now everybody has a phone. Everybody thinks they’re of, you know, they’re they’re movie makers. So there’s the ability to, to produce some of the things are there. And I think people see the potential for the dollar signs to be there. Sure.

I think that there is a lot of room for cooperation and part of it is, you know, the adult community has the adult world and, and, and has a lot of experience and education that I think some of the amateurs, some of the swingers that go, Hey, I wanna do porn. I want to, I wanna do only fans. They can provide a lot of insight going, okay, you need to think about this a little bit and Hey, you need to hear here’s the rules you need to follow. I, I almost think it can be like a mentoring process with it.

And, and honestly, I, the return factor is I think that a lot of the people in the, the lifestyle love the opportunity to get to meet their, the let’s face it porn is, is, is at lifestyle events. It’s obviously part of it, the chance to get, to meet their, the people they’re fans of and to talk to ’em. And I just think there’s a lot of room there. And I think that if it’s done correctly, I think that it can be a great relationship, you know? And, and I also think there’s a degree that we need the adult community to be willing, to help educate little miss housewife and hubby that think they’re gonna make some extra money and put some dirty videos out there of the, the, the bigger picture.

Right. Because, you know, just because you, you show, you show your body doesn’t mean you’re gonna be rich overnight. It doesn’t work that way. Right. So I, I definitely think they, they can help. And I think a lot of the people in the adult community enjoy the lifestyle and if we can make it so they can attend events and not be mobbed, that they can be just people. Also, I think that’s a plus as well.

Speaker 1 (23m 40s): Sure. Now you alluded to Ms. Amanda doing only fans, is that, is that the extent of the adult work she’s doing

Speaker 2 (23m 50s): It? It’s the starting point she has. She has decided to go ahead and, and, and she wants to do more. And that’s something that we’re, that we’re working on. We’re learning. It’s, it’s funny because, you know, we talk about, we believe there’s a window, you know, we’re both, I just turned, I turned 50 in a month and she’s 51. And she’s like, you know, there you go. There’s a, there’s a window here. And, and part of it is the confidence, you know, 20 years ago there, if you, I would’ve bet every penny I ever would have in my life that there’s no way she would ever do adult anything, but the, the lifestyle and the confidence and, and she enjoys it.

That’s, it’s a boost. Her, it’s a, she enjoys it. And quite honestly, it’s something that a lot of our, our folks really wanna see. And so we’re, we’re about please in the crowds and she’s having a good time, so we wanna keep it going. And, and we’re talking to some folks on the adult side that can kind of help guide us because there’s a whole lot of things we don’t know, but we’re trying to learn and things that we can bring back to help the other people in the Midwest, you know, on the coast, there’s there, there’s groups meeting, Hey, let’s put content together and whatever the Midwest doesn’t have that.

And so we’re as SVA. We’re trying to create that for them, but we wanna be able to do it in a way that we can make sure that we help people do it the right way that they’re safe and they’re smart and, and whatever. So sure. We’re learning with everybody else. And we’re having a lot of fun in the process.

Speaker 1 (25m 12s): There’s a website, adult model mentors that deals with a lot of that subject matter that she should take a look at. And you guys should probably partner with, if, if a lot of your people are, are starting to get into the only fans type of site. So certainly I can make that introduction for you. I would love that the owner, the owners have been on, on the podcast before go figure, right. So why did you decide to start the radio station?

And how’s it going so far?

Speaker 2 (25m 47s): There is it’s the, the basic concept. One person yelling is loud. 50 people yelling. The same thing is louder. And there is when you look into the adult alternative and, and sex positive lifestyles in, in that genre on the podcast, there’s a lot of noise, you know, there’s, there’s literally hundreds of podcasts. Some of them, a lot of them are folks that are doing as hobbies. Some are taking

Speaker 1 (26m 15s): More like more like hundreds of thousands actually. Yeah. Not millions.

Speaker 2 (26m 20s): Yeah. And, and you get lost. And again, we did everything you could do wrong when we started our podcast also. So I mean, you know, we, we learned the hard way, but I wanted to have a place that all of us were yelling the same thing together. But I also wanted something because again, education is a huge aspect for us. I have said for years and years, I believe that all the different parts of the lifestyle BDSM, the gangsters, naturalists, you know, swingers, polyamory, we’re all on the same tree.

We’re just different branches. And really, there’s not that much difference between us. We feel like there’s until we start communicating and talking and come to find out, there’s a lot of similarities. Sure. I wanted a place that people could go and listen. And if they had interest in, in poly, they could listen to shows about poly. They had swingers, you know, we have, or erotica or, or whatever the case may be. And that was where the radio station came in. Sure. In, in a perfect world, I would love someday to take.

And because I’m old. So, you know, downloads, my kids had to explain, but you’re

Speaker 1 (27m 30s): Not.

Speaker 2 (27m 33s): I feel like my kids remind kids.

Speaker 1 (27m 34s): I’m 65 in October, bro. So

Speaker 2 (27m 40s): Now I can’t use I’m old stop man though. No,

Speaker 1 (27m 43s): You can’t sorry.

Speaker 2 (27m 44s): My, my kid, my kid, you thought I was 110. They’re like, dad, why are you touching a computer? Yeah. But you know, we have found a lot of people, Hey, you know, their favorite show. They, they love our show. Well, then they have stuck around and they listened to what’s on before and after. And all of a sudden they’re finding, Hey, here’s this show. I never knew anything about, well, you know what? I have interest in cut holding. Like, that’s an example. You know, we have green cut holds podcast on there, or, you know, learn more about poly. So in the grand scheme of things, the perfect world is someday to take.

And you, instead of needing pod bean and, and the rest of ’em, that you’re gonna be able to go and find everything you want. And you’re gonna wanna have the radio station going all day long. That’s the goal we threw into the mix. We have vanilla Sunday. So our shows on Sundays are just regular shows.

Speaker 1 (28m 35s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (28m 35s): And we did that such

Speaker 1 (28m 37s): As such as

Speaker 2 (28m 39s): The traveler barefoot traveler is on there. We have malice is on there. We have no show those five guys. That’s, that’s awesome. Just we have everything from a health wellness show, travel show, sports show, crime mystery show, a SIM movie reviewing show, just regular shows.

Speaker 1 (29m 1s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (29m 3s): And, and again, it, it takes courage for some of those shows to come on this station, but it’s again, to prove that point of, Hey, look,

Speaker 1 (29m 12s): Crossover. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29m 14s): We’re all still people,

Speaker 1 (29m 15s): Right? Sure. Absolutely. Do you ever feel like Kaba Inc has too many moving parts? You like laughs.

Speaker 2 (29m 26s): It is a great time that you asked me that question because we have our crazy summer nights event coming up August 5th through the seventh, which is my birthday weekend and one of our three big national events. So yes, There are times we’ve got our fingers in an awful lot of, of different places and it can, it can seem overwhelming. Right. And yet when I’ve looked at and we’ve talked about, you know, where do we wanna pull back? There’s nowhere that I want to, we wanna pull out of.

And so now the focus has been more on how we can grow the internal organization to better handle the growth of all the external components. Right. And which is a challenge it’s, I’m kind of a control freak. So that’s a learning curve a little bit for me, but we just, you

Speaker 1 (30m 18s): Know it.

Speaker 2 (30m 19s): Yeah. Yeah. I’m willing to embed it. And if I’m not willing to admit it, Amanda, after 30 years will happily tell it to me. Yes. But there’s just, there’s not a place that we go, you know, we don’t enjoy doing this aspect anymore. So the biggest thing I get now is I do get the miss. Amanda actually owns CAS bank. She’s the, she’s the CEO of the company. So I, I am on a leash a little bit that if I come up with other things I do now have to, I’m not allowed to just surprise her with that.

I do now have to check it with her before I make announcements of, oh, by the way,

Speaker 1 (30m 55s): Gotta check with the head office. Good job. Good job. Keep, keep some marriage going. Right. Very much so. And I should give the standard, disclaimer, since you mentioned event an event in August that will have passed by the time this runs, but that’s okay. I’m sure. I’m sure it will go well. So be besides the song, what does Kaba mean or stand for?

Speaker 2 (31m 19s): So we, we, for a long time, we wouldn’t tell anybody. And the way that the, the name came about, the way crazy Kaba came about is we were, we had used Kaba as our username when we first got in the lifestyle for like some of the websites we were on. Right. And we would go to party in an Iowa and they’re like, oh, the crazy couple from Nebraska’s coming. That’s crazy

Speaker 1 (31m 44s): Camo again. I’m just, I’m just, I’m just trying to get this visual of, of, of lifestyle parties in Iowa. But anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (31m 52s): So the funny thing is we, we ran contests for years. We wouldn’t tell anybody for years what camo meant, just, and, and the guess is that people had, were, were amazing. But actually what Kaba means, Kaba stands for Cole, Amanda, Sebastian bra, and Holden. So it’s actually us and our kids.

Speaker 1 (32m 14s): Nice. So

Speaker 2 (32m 15s): We had used it for our email for years and years before we ever gotten a lifestyle. Right. Our kids are all grown and, and our kids know what we do, but as when they were going through that stage, it was like, okay, well, here’s something really important to remember when you’re, you know, clicking on websites and whatnot. If it says CSBA, I probably wouldn’t open it. Just

Speaker 1 (32m 38s): There you go. And you know, and now that, that brings about a question when you’re in the lifestyle, it, it can be kind of sensitive. Sometimes. Has, have you shared this with, with your entire family?

Speaker 2 (32m 55s): Yes, actually. So we are completely out. We’re completely out. Okay. Our, our, the way our, our kids found out our oldest one was already had already graduated from high school and our middle one was a senior in high school. And when we first started, we used to cam on, on, on adult friend finder every night, we, every night we cam for we’d have sex for an hour and then talk for three hours. We had a show. It was like a precursor to where we’re at now. And then we would shut the computer down at night. Well, it didn’t shut down one night.

So the next morning our middle one got up to go to school to check his Facebook and put up in there as a picture of his mom. You couldn’t see her head, but you could see a butterfly tattoo that she has, that he designed. It’s like time to chat. So for a lot of years they knew whatever. And that was fine. Two years ago, my mom and dad were at our house for Christmas and, and we have a studio in our house and we had kind of blocked off. We just moved and mom started poking around and, and didn’t say much, but we would always go on Christmas morning.

There was a casino in the one. They always did the big buffet things, you know? Yeah. And we were standing in line and all of a sudden we’re standing there and my brother and his family are there. And my mom and dad and our kids, and this guy comes running up and she goes, oh my God, it’s you guys, it’s you? Oh my God. And gives us a big hug. She’s a waitress, takes pictures with us and goes away. And so of course my family’s looking at us like, you know, and we’re just like, you don’t really know what to say.

It’s like, well, yeah, I think we’ve met her somewhere. You know, you’re just kind of, kind of come excuses. We go and we sit down to eat and all of a sudden she went and told another staff member who was also on our page.

Speaker 1 (34m 45s): Oh, geez. Who

Speaker 2 (34m 46s): Comes running up and asks us to sign some stuff.

Speaker 1 (34m 50s): Oh

Speaker 2 (34m 50s): No. And get pictures with us. And it’s like, okay. It’s like, be careful. What do you really wanna know? Be careful what you ask. And oh, they kind of wanna know. So we, we kind of danced around the subject a little bit. We didn’t explain the magnitude of it. The following month was our crazy winter nights. And it was our largest crazy winter nights that we’d had at that point and had a thousand people. And they had come up, they went up past where the hotel was and there was all these signs and they saw Kaba. And so then it’s like, okay, what is going on?

It’s like, all right. Time to be just laid all out there. And so we did. And so we just laid it all out there. It’s interesting explaining, trying to explain to your parents, you know, polyamory. I mean, there, every stereotype they’re hitting, but you know, my brother, my brother he’s older. He has questions, but he just kinda, he wants to ask, but he really doesn’t every now and then my mom, actually, we she’ll ask all the time how the events are going. And she was in the hospital this last year.

My dad had passed away and was in the hospital with broken hip. And we put out on the page and a whole bunch of our members sent her get well cards and Christmas cards. Oh. And my mom is just, she has fallen in love with our group, you know, on I, these people are, and she’s really opened her mom.

Speaker 1 (36m 9s): They are. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36m 10s): Yeah. So we had to tell her, don’t tell people, let’s not try to cuz you’re not gonna explain it quite. Right. So just right. But you know,

Speaker 1 (36m 17s): She has, she has a new family. That’s awesome. Yeah. So what’s the biggest misunderstanding about the lifestyle to people who don’t participate in it,

Speaker 2 (36m 28s): What we find. And it’s really funny cuz it’s still the, it, it, it hasn’t changed. It’s that misconception, that one you are, that everything is just a, a, a key party, basically that anytime that you’re with anybody else from the lifestyle, you’re having sex with them, it doesn’t matter who it is. You’re going to have sex with all of them. And it’s just like, they, they just, they don’t understand that that is so far from the truth. I, again, and it’s not their fault.

You can’t, all they’ve ever seen is, you know, key parties or, or that type or those stereotype

Speaker 1 (37m 5s): What’s things. That’s a, that’s a, that’s not a term I’m familiar with.

Speaker 2 (37m 10s): So know key parties.

Speaker 1 (37m 12s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37m 13s): So, so the, the old key parties where they, everybody go to an event and put their house keys or their car keys and a fishbowl. And at the end of the night, the guys would draw keys out. And whoever’s keys. You got that’s who you went and had sex with. I mean, you know, this is like 70 stuff. You know, this kinda stuff would no more happen to the man on the moon now, But there there’s just that people are blown away when they finally ask us. And we tell ’em about things like our Kaba cares program, where, you know, we’ve given away almost $50,000 to lifestyle families and people in need, they’re blown away.

It just doesn’t fit because they’re like, but you have sex with just anybody and everybody it’s like, no, that’s, that’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works. Right. That’s the part that we’re, if we can ever get people over that businesses and regular people, the lifestyle, won’t be such a scary thing.

Speaker 1 (38m 8s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that, and not being a person who’s involved, so I can’t speak totally articulate about it, but knowing enough people who are in the lifestyle and knowing people who organize events in the lifestyle, I’ve got one friend who organizes very high end events in the lifestyle. I, I have enough knowledge to, to say that really more than anything else, they’re social events.

Yes. Where people might have sex,

Speaker 2 (38m 46s): That’s putting it beautifully because that’s exactly what it is that reaches a point that as we age and, and everything else, you know, the, the sex drive changes and, and the whole nine yards. But I can honestly say that for miss Amanda and I, and, and for a lot of people there will reach a point where we won’t play anymore.

Speaker 1 (39m 5s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39m 6s): But we’ll never leave the

Speaker 1 (39m 7s): Lifestyle. And, and by, and by play to, to give people the meaning of that, that means have sex.

Speaker 2 (39m 13s): Right? Yeah. We, we won’t, we won’t have, we won’t have hookups with, with other couples or it would be very, very rare, but we will never leave the lifestyle because the friendships right. And, and that the ability to be relaxed. And there’s just, when we talk about community and, and I, and I apologize, cuz this is gonna sound, you know, there’s not really a, a pretty way to put it. So I’m gonna just put it in the simplistic terms for, to prove the point is then here’s the deal.

If I trust you enough to potentially have sex with my wife And you trust me enough to potentially have sex with your wife, don’t you think that our level of trust and relationship in the rest of our lives is probably a little bit more than, than the average people out on the street? Oh yeah. It takes a different thing. So yeah, the way that I, that I show this is there was a couple in a small town in the Midwest they’ve lived there the whole life. He was paralyzed from a, an accident that he’d had years before he’s worked at the same company for day.

She’s worked in the company forever and day. He was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Okay. They did all the typical, small town, small community fundraisers, which is beautiful young people doing big sales selling. T-shirts all of those things that community raised for them somewhere. It was like eight to $900. Okay. We got involved cuz they were on our page and in one weekend we raised $10,000 for them.

Speaker 1 (40m 49s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (40m 50s): That’s the difference between community, you know, regular list, life, community, community,

Speaker 1 (40m 58s): Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40m 59s): A shared bond and, and that

Speaker 1 (41m 0s): Lifestyle, lifestyle community. Yeah. And it’s, it’s strong. It it’s a, it is, it definitely is very family like

Speaker 2 (41m 9s): Yes can be. And, and, and with any family, you know, you have, you have the occasional dysfunction. You have, you have the normal parts of society.

Speaker 1 (41m 17s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (41m 18s): But for the most part, there’s just a different level of trust and communication. That’s required to be successful in the lifestyle. You know, we had our car one time and, and some friends of ours in the lifestyle, let us loan just a car for three weeks.

Speaker 1 (41m 36s): Geez.

Speaker 2 (41m 37s): I, I mean, that’s just the level of, of you know, of relationships, so sure. It’s, it’s a beautiful thing. It can be

Speaker 1 (41m 45s): Absolutely. Now where do you, Seeba being in five years and where would you like to take it besides, besides rolling the world? Of course.

Speaker 2 (41m 56s): Yeah. Yeah. That, that goal has never went away completely. You know, where I see us and, and is, is to continue to be, I, I, it used to be, I only wanted to see us in front, but my vision has changed. We may be on the fringe. We may be in the middle. We may be in the front, but in five years from now, we will continue to be the loudest voice for positive change, for education, for consent, for testing, for safety and, and, and to a degree.

And this is gonna sound really weird. I, you know, I, I truly believe that we’ll be leading that’s, that’s what I’m all about is to, is continue to be that pied Piper, but we’re going to, no matter what, continue to be the thorn in the side that does not allow the lifestyle to become complacent and to go well, yeah, this is probably good enough, right. We have an obligation to take what we’ve done in the Midwest and take that same concept, that same energy and enthusiasm and, and change and have it spread across the world.

Quite honestly, it definitely from coast to coast. And, and that’s really what I think where we’ll continue to be. And, and hopefully the things like the radio stations that, that, you know, will be known as that company, 50 years from now, you know, when, when I’m long gone, when they go, those were the ones that, you know, they always pushed education and the lifestyles better because they kept pushing for growth.

Speaker 1 (43m 35s): Absolutely. If you’re not growing, you’re going backward. Right.

Speaker 2 (43m 39s): That’s right. Very much. So. Very much so.

Speaker 1 (43m 42s): Well, Cole, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adults, I broker talk and I hope a chance. I will have a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (43m 49s): Absolutely. Thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to come on and, and talk. It is greatly appreciated. And, and I sincerely enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (43m 57s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. Tell them how well has your content been protected from piracy and what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy take down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer your affiliates, the more tools you offer, the more successful they’ll be.

What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on the site. Do you use billing or affiliate software like NATS? What’s your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day?

Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the D or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend to produce or buy the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your website? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all of the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a non-disclosure agreement.

If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers. Like, I don’t know. Maybe adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours, and they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price in any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course, we’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week, we’ll be speaking with Robert Warren of 2much.net. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Kole Snodgrass. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with adult performer Coralyn Jewel.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

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That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
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ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale a content company that stood the test of time. They recently redesigned and relaunched their site with a completely new front and back end and an all new automated FTP system.

Since that time sales have soared, the site now has over 50,000 scenes and photo sets, 10,000 DVDs, and over 10,000 models. Their content represents the top studios in the adult industry. They have exclusive content with some of their studios and thousands of raw HD scenes yet to be used plus close to 10,000 HD scenes that can generate revenue from VOD or PPV. This company can be kept as is or turned into a massive tube site membership site, or clip store with an incredible amount of content.

Only $1.75 million. Now time for this week’s interview my guest today by popular demand on adult site. Broker talk is coral and jewel for the third time. Corallin thanks for being back with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 33s): Thank you for having me back today. How are you?

Speaker 1 (2m 35s): I’m good. How you doing?

Speaker 2 (2m 37s): I’m good. Good.

Speaker 1 (2m 38s): Now Corallin is a number one international best selling author of the book when the ice melts the story of coral and jewel, as well as a working porn star, retired competitive athlete porn director, swing club owner. This is about where I usually run outta breath, fitness trainer, wedding planner, talent manager, voiceover actress, coach, and motivational speaker. And I’m sure I’ve probably missed a few now. Corland is the epitome of a strong, powerful female entrepreneur. Follow her coaching training session, speaking engagements and book signing schedule on her newly launched site, Corin jewel.com as well as social media.

Corallin also has a very popular podcast, the hanky hanky podcast, which I’ve actually been a guest on. You can find it at not surprisingly hanky Pany podcast.com and now she’s lead spokes model for a new adult social media platform. Pinter’s that’s spelled P I N X S T E R S. So I’m always tired after doing that bio.

Speaker 3 (3m 45s): I don’t blame you.

Speaker 1 (3m 47s): So, so Corland since publishing your book, what have you been up to the past couple years?

Speaker 3 (3m 53s): Oh, goodness. I mean all, everything that you just said, you know, I published my book. I’m about to really, I’m getting ready to publish a second book, right. Turning the first book into a documentary, and then let’s see. And then I’ve just been really focusing on building a new website and putting together my coaching packages and traveling and doing my seminars. I’m busy.

Speaker 1 (4m 14s): You’ve been traveling a lot too.

Speaker 3 (4m 16s): I have, I have, I went to the, for exotica last year and I’m scheduled to go to them again this year. Wow. I’ve just completed Chicago and Miami, I believe is next month. Let’s see. I’ve done. XBI gosh, I can’t even think XBI was just happened like two weeks ago. And then I was at X three, which is like part of the XBI and then right. I was at the Y not convention. So yes, I can’t remember where I’ve been traveling anymore.

Speaker 1 (4m 39s): Right. That doesn’t surprise me based on all the, based on all the, the travel you’ve been doing. And I should tell people we’re recording this at the end of may and it will be running a few months from now. Now tell us a little bit about your second book and when it will be available.

Speaker 3 (4m 57s): So, okay. So my first book, a lot of people would come to me and say they really enjoyed the first book, but they wished that I had put more detail regarding swinging and things that happened at the swingers club that I own. And then sometimes people would say to me, they wish there was more stories about the brothel or more stories about the, about porn. And so what I decided to do is each book is gonna now be a series. That’s gonna focus on just one aspect of the adult world. So this one is focusing on everything that I’ve experienced and seen as a participant in the swinger lifestyle community, as well as running my own community, which I started in 2012.

So it’s talking about everything from the good, the bad, the ugly, the lawsuits, the staff, all that kinda stuff.

Speaker 1 (5m 41s): Now tell me, I mean, you must be able to relate and maybe you can give us a little bit of a preview, some stories that, that you’ve experienced in, in this swinger’s lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (5m 56s): Okay. Well, so what I, what I try to do is when I’m coaching people, or when I’m doing my podcast or my articles or my book, it’s everything that I’m, you know, I want it to be an education. So it’s, it’s a learning. So I want people to learn and walk away with something. So, you know what I, the book talks about, I’ll give you an example, the book we’ll talk. One of the stories I talk about is a couple who they were constantly having fights at my events. And so they’ve been married 30 years and my security was constantly coming to me and saying, you know, Corland, we’ve got another argument that needs to be broken up and I’d have to go over there and, you know, ask them what the problem was and tell them to, you know, fast hold the drama until they got home.

And I finally told them that they were not welcome back at my events until they did a coaching session with me, cuz I had to get to the bottom of what the deal was. Wow. And after we had, we had six sessions, we had one together, two alone with each of them and then, you know, back together. And what I came to the conclusion was was that she was very shy. And so in order for her to come out of her shell, she would drink alcohol. And sometimes over-indulge in it where he was like Mr. Social butterfly, but he would push her and put her into positions that were uncomfortable. So they’d be in the jacuzzi and he’d say, oh, go ahead, go touch my wife, touch my wife.

And she’d say, please, don’t like, just do, don’t do that to me. Don’t give permission to touch me. And he’s like, oh, you like it, you like it. And so he realized what he was doing wrong and she realized it, you know, the overindulging. And so they both made an adjustment. And about six months later, they were at an event with me. We were sitting in the jacuzzi, hanging out and there was a couple sitting across from us. And the couple the girl was like, I’m brand new. I wanna ride your motor bunny Corland but I’m, you know, I don’t wanna do it with people around. And I said, no problem, when you’re ready, you know, I’ll go and I’ll show you how to use it privately. So as soon as she was ready, she says, okay, Colin, I’m ready. So the husband says everybody, my wife’s gonna go ride the motor buddy.

Let’s go watch her. And the other couple that I coached, looked at me and he goes, oh my God, he’s me and my wife’s her. And I go, exactly. That’s what you used to do. So, you know, I was a good learning lesson. So I, I put stories like that in my book, you know?

Speaker 1 (7m 58s): Wow. So the counseling obviously really helped.

Speaker 3 (8m 3s): Yes. Yeah. And they’re very happy. They’re very happy together. And that’s, I recommend counseling for almost anybody. Who’s either going to get involved in the lifestyle or if you’re in it, but you guys are already having issues, you know, then you need to, you need to get to the bottom of those quickly because it’s not supposed to be to save your marriage. That’s not what it’s there for. It’s supposed to enhance and add excitement, but you’ve gotta be careful cuz you’re playing with fire. If you don’t play the right way, you’ll get burned. So

Speaker 1 (8m 28s): Yeah. I mean, are there some people who get into the lifestyle who shouldn’t

Speaker 3 (8m 34s): Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there’s people that get into the lifestyle because they think that this is the only way to save their marriage because you know, they, they either have cheated or have thoughts of cheating. There’s people that get into the lifestyle. A lot of the wrong reasons, you know, there’s so many wrong reasons, but then there’s right. Reasons too. But you’ve gotta know, you’ve gotta know how to navigate your way through. I just coached somebody today. Who’s interested him and his wife 14 years married. And so, you know, we, we go through the warning signs that they need to be, they need to know because when I got into the lifestyle and I’m ultimately a divorce because of it, my husband and I were married and we got involved in it and that’s because nobody taught us the wording signs and we didn’t really know the rules.

We didn’t know the etiquette. And so we screwed up.

Speaker 1 (9m 20s): Yeah. Do you, do you find often that one partner or another kind of pushes the other into it?

Speaker 3 (9m 30s): Yes, I do see that. Not, not so often. Okay. But it seems to be the couples that having are having the issues. Those seem to be the ones that when I get down to the bottom of it, the wife’s just doing it so that, you know, she’s to please her husband or vice versa. But also there’s so many different variations and aspects of being involved in the swinger lifestyle community. It’s not just about going and having sex with another couple or another person there’s, you know, there’s Vos and exhibitionist and stuff like that.

So that’s another thing that I teach couples is just because you wanna embark on this, that you, you might not know what you like and you, you’re not gonna know until, you know, fantasy meets reality. And if you don’t like what, you know, what that fantasy was, then maybe there’s something else in it for you. Like just the open-mindedness or something like that. So,

Speaker 1 (10m 20s): So do, do you find that a lot of people are like really surprised what they find when they, when they go to their first swingers party?

Speaker 3 (10m 29s): Yes. Yes. So especially depending on which you know, which, which, which event you’re going to, which part of your community, the, the misconception is that people really, really do feel like it’s an open free for all, you know, just couples going and there’s just people having sex everywhere. And that’s kind of what society’s made us think. And that’s why, you know, society downplays, swingers and lifestyles and such bad people, you know? Yeah. And the fact of the matter is the way I describe it is imagine that you’re going to a wedding and there’s DJ and there’s dancing and there’s decorations and there’s party favors and there’s catering, but then there just happens to be play rooms.

And if you wanna go and you know, be intimate and play, then you have the opportunity to go and do so.

Speaker 1 (11m 8s): Hmm. I mean, do a lot of people not partake in the sex part at all? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11m 12s): Yep. A lot of people don’t a lot of people, I think there’s, you know, I’ve got, I’ve got about 20,000, I think members in my community right now. And I would be comfortable to say maybe, you know, a little less than half don’t don’t don’t participate in anything sexual at the events. Sometimes people too, they just like to go and meet people there and then they take it to, you know, a private area like their hotel room or something. Sure.

Speaker 1 (11m 33s): Now, now what, what do you mean by your community? Are you talking about connected to your club?

Speaker 3 (11m 39s): Nope, I’m talking about, so over since I started my club in 2012, in order to attend an event, they must have a profile on my website and they must have a valid profile. Like they have to have a membership paid for, to it when they’re attending an event, if their membership runs out and they’re not attending an event, they still have access to the website. So over the course of, since 2012, there’s 20,000 app, 20,000 profiles are on my site. Wow.

Speaker 1 (12m 3s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 3 (12m 4s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12m 5s): So, so what was the reason you decided to do a documentary? I mean, maybe you can share a bit about it and when you expect it to be available.

Speaker 3 (12m 15s): Okay. So the documentary has been an absolute nightmare. In all honesty, I was approached by a director from New York on Facebook that actually said that he’d read my book and really, really thought that I should put it into a documentary. Okay. And I said, I was not interested that I just didn’t have the finances and I didn’t have the time to dedicate to that. And so we made an agreement that he said, you know, if you can do this for me, for my documentary, I will help. I will edit your documentary and I will help you and be there with you through the whole filming process.

So the past two years, Jay crew was my, he operated the camera and we filmed, you know, different scenes throughout LA. One of my old ice skating students. She plays me as a younger Colan. My music producer is also play. He plays my husband. And then a lot of people that are in the movie or in my documentary were the actual people that they’re playing themselves. And then they also take place at the, like the dance club, the strip club that I first started dancing at. It’s still there. We filled it there and the managers still there and he was played himself in, in the documentary.

So now we are in editing and, but we’ve gone through three editors because what happened was the guy that made this whole promise to me, backed out, backed out. So, yeah. And so it’s been a, and then somebody else said they would do it and then they backed out. So I’m on my third editor right now. And I, again, he’s a good friend of mine, so I told him, please, don’t back out and it’s all about, so the documentary is, it’s really based on my book for the most part. Right. Except that the only difference is that we’re now adding in more detail and, and we’re, you know, really trying to get across the, the significance of the different events and how they occurred.

Speaker 1 (13m 56s): Hmm. Okay. Now, why do you feel that pin Xers decided to make you their spokes model?

Speaker 3 (14m 5s): So they came to me, I believe they originally came to me on, I’m gonna say Twitter, but I’m not positive. Okay. And that’s because I have my, you know, my message is don’t judge, you can’t, don’t judge, don’t judge people by the, you know, lifestyle relationship, lifestyle that they lead, whether they live a polyamory lifestyle, a swinger lifestyle, BDSM, kink. And then, and then if they work in the adult industry and all very different variations of being involved in, you know, the adult industry. And so I’m very much about, you know, not judging a book by its cover.

And I, you know, and I portray that in my articles and through the guests that I bring on my podcast to show that just because somebody’s an adult performer doesn’t mean they were sexually abused or they’re drug addicts, and I’ve brought on performers to prove, you know, I just had, I just had Leanna Lovings on who’s, you know, a double major in biology and neuroscience and, you know, grew up in a religious family. And she’s been in only a year just to prove to people that you can’t judge. And so that’s what society is doing this with all the social media right now, and shadow banning anybody that’s in the adult industry.

And I think it’s disgusting and it’s awful. And I think that’s why they came to me.

Speaker 1 (15m 13s): Some of the so-called adult platforms are doing it too. Right.

Speaker 3 (15m 20s): Yeah. What they’re doing is they’re really making it, you know, because they’re getting so much pressure from the MasterCard, you know, in the merchant class. So they, you know, they, I understand that they have to have precautions. I get that. Sure. But they’re making it as impossible. They’re just making you go through leaps and who, you know, just jump through hoops to get the, to get your content on their site. The worst one, honestly, I’ll site is only fans and that’s because of course doesn’t even have anywhere in there for us to upload the IDs. So there’s, so I don’t understand what they want you to do.

They want you to like sit there and now email them separately. Okay. This is the video I just uploaded. This is the paperwork. This is the IDs. Seriously. Yeah. And what they’ve done is that there are producers and, and studios that have had content on there for, you know, eight years. And they wanted them to go back and locate all the different performers and have them sign the only fans model release. And they will not release the money to these studios unless they get those papers signed again by these models who have some, have retired passed away, whatever it may be.

So it’s just, it’s disgusting. It’s absolutely. They make it some, my, my stuff’s on there there’s you can’t find anything on my only fans that involves another person. It’s just me. Sure.

Speaker 1 (16m 34s): Where do you see the entire fan site clip site industry going? Because it has, there have been a lot of changes lately. Obviously a lot of changes to only fans, but then the others have kind of had to follow. And again, yeah. And you, you talk about the pressure from, you know, the card companies. I mean, where do you, where do you see this all going?

Speaker 3 (17m 5s): So, you know, one thing I can say, and I, I really do believe in this. I do believe this is that no matter what society and media and anybody tries to do with the adult industry and make porn and illegal and knock us down here and knock us down there and you know, they’re never gonna fucking win. I’m sorry, but they’re not because sex sell and sex is everywhere. And whether or not people wanna admit that they indulge in it or watch it or are intrigued by it. Okay. It’s there. And by making it not there. Okay. So by, you know, by trying, they’re gonna, there’s gonna end up being more people prostituting on the streets and there’s gonna be more rapes and stuff like that.

Because if people can’t go and fulfill their role, play in their fantasies on webcam and stuff like that, then how else are they? They gonna do it, right. They’re gonna look at other measures. So the society, and then they need to freaking knock it off already. And if you’re not hurting anybody. And the only thing that I dis that I, that I agree with a hundred percent is no porn should be free and accessible without somebody adding, uploading their own ID, proving that they too are over the age of 18.

Speaker 1 (18m 11s): So, so age verification.

Speaker 3 (18m 13s): Absolutely. But I mean, age verification where somebody just clicks and says, oh yeah, I’m 18. You know where they go? Yeah. That that’s, I, I don’t really believe in that my website has the same thing actually, but to access my content, you have to sign up. So you can’t see anything for the fact like chatter BA that you can just go on there. My son he’s 14 can go on there and just watch for free to me is disgusting. It’s disgusting. Yeah. And so I agree with that. We need to fix that. And I don’t know why we haven’t made it the same way us as performers have to upload our ID and prove that we are over the age of 18 with a picture, the ID next to the face.

Why do the viewers not have to, they should have to as well,

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Well, I, a hundred percent agree. I mean, I don’t have children, you have children, you, so, so it’s, it’s more personal for you and putting that aside for a second, how much of the responsibility do you think lies with the parents?

Speaker 3 (19m 8s): Well, I think that you need to be, so I have a very, very open relationship with my children. And I think that it’s very important to do that so that they know they can come to me and discuss with me masturbation, sex, condom, safe, sex, whatever. It may be STDs without sure. Fearing any kind of judgment. And what I notice, especially in my seminars is how many younger, you know, people come to my seminars and they’re maybe they were Jehovah’s witness. And their parents have told them that the, you know, they’re not welcome at home anymore, or they just wanna embrace their sexuality.

And they’ve been told that masturbation and pleasure yourself is bad. It’s a bad thing to do. Yeah. And so we’ve got, you know, so that, I think that lays on the parents. Okay, sure. Making your, these, these kids. I mean, I, I work for Dr. Susie’s Institute and I’m a chat agent for her. And mostly what I do is men will call in and they wanna talk to somebody. Who’s not gonna judge them about a kink or a fetish or something that’s going on in their minds without judgment, because they can’t, you know, I have a, there’s a 21 year old that calls and he’s got some major, you know, issues and it pisses me off.

Yeah. Cause that’s his parents’ fault. So that’s where that lies. But as for the porn, you know, I, I know that my, my son watches it. I know he does, but it’s easily, easily accessible. And I think under the age of 18, it should not be, you shouldn’t be able to access it. But

Speaker 1 (20m 29s): No, I, I agree. How much, how much of, of all that do you think can be pointed at religion?

Speaker 3 (20m 36s): A lot, A lot, a lot, a lot. And I grew up Jewish. I grew up, you know, private school and everything. Yeah. But if people don’t start to realize this, EV almost everybody that I counsel, like I counsel for, for the industry or for, you know, tell me that they came from a religious family where it was so shoved down their throat, you know, you will get married to one person. You will live a nog. And then what if people do, soon as they turn 18, they turn, you know, they, they code the complete opposite direction that they were forced to be in.

Yeah. So

Speaker 1 (21m 8s): Yeah. Going,

Speaker 3 (21m 9s): I believe,

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Go ahead. Sorry.

Speaker 3 (21m 11s): I believe in, I was gonna say, I believe in being spiritual and I think it’s good to have, you know, that, that I say religion, but I think it’s more spirit. It’s good to have, you know, that spiritual connection. Yes. But to, to make people think that sex is bad and masturbation is bad and you know, is, is causing major issues. We’re going backwards is what we’re doing.

Speaker 1 (21m 31s): Sure. Yeah. And the whole, you know, prosecution of sin in our country, it looks like the whole marijuana thing going in the right direction. Thank goodness hell. Here in Thailand, they’re, they’re even in the process of legalizing marijuana, which God knows nobody ever thought that would happen. Interesting for, for a drug where they used to put people in the slammer for. Right.

Speaker 3 (21m 55s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (21m 55s): Isn’t that crazy? Well for selling, they used to kill people for it here. They don’t do that anymore.

Speaker 3 (21m 59s): So, you know, somebody had a point the other day, somebody said, can you believe I can get marijuana delivered to my house, but I can’t get a pack of cigarettes. And I was like, that’s a very interesting analogy. You know?

Speaker 1 (22m 9s): Well, cigarette cigarettes are another matter. We probably won’t agree on, but anyway, oh

Speaker 3 (22m 13s): No, no. They’re discussing an awful habit. Awful, awful, awful. Agreed.

Speaker 1 (22m 17s): Agreed. And you know, you also were talking about regulations and how they’ll force people, you know, to do other things. I think fo the fo CTA law is probably the greatest example of how it’s absolutely. Yeah. What it’s done to the escort sites. And now there’s more, now there’s more street prostitution, prostitutes get murdered. I mean, it just doesn’t work.

Speaker 3 (22m 48s): Yeah. I, I just dunno what they’re thinking. I mean, we’d all know that people have, the prostitution has been around forever. Okay. And, you know, legalizing it with paying taxes would be the smartest way to do it. Sure. But, you know, instead, and then these sites that have been set up where they, you know, you can get reviews on the, on the, on the client, you can get reviews on the provider and, and you know, and at least there’s these safety precautions that are in there. Whereas now that they’re making that so difficult, well, girls are just gonna go walk the street again.

Speaker 1 (23m 18s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23m 18s): People do what they have to do,

Speaker 1 (23m 20s): Or they’re gonna go on a site that somehow, cuz they’re doing a whackamole with them. They’re gonna go on a site and somehow meet up with somebody and maybe get murdered.

Speaker 3 (23m 30s): Right. Well we hope, you know, I just hope, you know, I always, if there’s any providers that are ever listening and don’t know how to run background checks, I encourage them to contact me for free. And I’ve got a variety of different ways to do so I used to work as a, as a private detective. And so I’ve got some insider information and so I run checks all the time for people.

Speaker 1 (23m 47s): Fantastic. Well, I hope people will take advantage of that. Now, in addition to your books, your documentary and Pinter, I understand you developed and talked a little bit about it last time, a C B D personal lubricant, how’s that working out for you?

Speaker 3 (24m 4s): It’s going good. You know, that, that was a definitely a new business venture for me to embark on. It’s not my specialty. You know, I had to find out all these different, I, I didn’t realize that CBD. So marketing CBD and making a CBD product is one marketing lube and a lubricant product is another. But when you put them together, it’s considered a medical device. So I had no idea how hard insurance would be on it. And the only good thing is is that we, we extracted the THC for mine.

And even though under 0.03% is okay to have, I did that because a lot of my fan base or military and military will not even touch like a CBD bath bomb because they just worry that they’ll still test for the TC. Right. Sure. You know? Sure. And so we just extracted it. So that’s, so my loop’s going good. You know, it was a, it was a two year process of trying to find something well, trying to put together a, a product that with all the things that I don’t like about lubes, I don’t like so they’re sticky or that they have an awful smell, awful taste. And so, you know, that’s what we were trying to nail.

And I think we did, we did nail it so

Speaker 1 (25m 11s): Fabulous. Now where can listeners purchase your products and follow your career?

Speaker 3 (25m 16s): So the easiest thing is I’ve now lodged a brand new website. And so everything is on there. So instead of needing to go to the hanky pinky podcast.com for the podcast, and then going to Jules CBD lubricant for the loop, they now just go to Corland jewel.com. And on there they can access my coaching, my adult content, you know, they have a, there’s a membership site for that. They can access my podcast, my blogs, my shop, my tour schedule everything. And so it’s really made it a lot more accessible as it’s an all in one platform it’s taken, you know, it’s trial and error of course, like everything, but it’s definitely making things easier for my fan base.

Speaker 1 (25m 56s): Tell me the main reason you launched the website and how it’s working out for you

Speaker 3 (26m 1s): Launched the website most, pretty much for what I said, because, you know, I was, I had all these different websites and platforms. I was Mon you know, I was taking care of my Juul CBD lubricant, but then I was on, I had Kajabi for the website and that was only coaching. You couldn’t have any adult content over there. So then I was trying to put my adult content somewhere else and it’s just, it was just too much to handle. And so, and then, and then the coaching I needed, you know, the coaching somewhere, the store, oh, the store. I couldn’t have my store on Kajabi because you can’t put a, a lubricant on there. So if I could put everything together into one, so it definitely was a lot of work putting together this

Speaker 1 (26m 37s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26m 38s): Putting together this website,

Speaker 1 (26m 40s): Talk about the, the, the process of putting a site that intricate together and a

Speaker 3 (26m 48s): Lot of fighting

Speaker 1 (26m 49s): How it went.

Speaker 3 (26m 51s): So I’m working with someone in Portugal, so we’re on different, different time zones. Right. So that’s the one issue is that, you know, at two o’clock in the morning when he’s got questions, I’m ready for bed. And so there was a lot of Allnighters cause wait

Speaker 1 (27m 3s): A minute, wait a minute. You sleep.

Speaker 3 (27m 5s): I do sometimes, but wow. Not a lot with this website. Cause I was up all night last night. That’s what I told you earlier. But yeah. So a lot, a lot of back and forth and, and then, you know, we would agree to put something up and then, and then it wouldn’t work. So it’s trial and error. So for example, people can go on there and they can automatically say, I’d like to, they buy a consultation with me for lifestyle, for example. Okay. Right. And then they can actually book their through the Cal, you know, through the calendar program, they can book. So, but what happens is yesterday at two, in the afternoon, I decide that I’m gonna go to the store and in comes a thing that books me for three o’clock consultation.

So oops, okay. That doesn’t work. Right. So I had to contact the web guy and be like, okay, nevermind. That’s not a good idea. We need to have it that they purchase. And then I contact them to schedule them in because yes, I’m not gonna sit home and wait. So

Speaker 1 (27m 53s): Yeah. Sometimes automated has its drawbacks.

Speaker 3 (27m 57s): Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (27m 59s): So what other challenges have you gone through and putting the site together? And the reason I ask is because so many people, when they put together websites, they don’t realize that it isn’t that easy.

Speaker 3 (28m 11s): It’s not easy. And, and again, like I said, there’s things that we have done on there and then they don’t work and then we pull them, or, you know, in the beginning we were uploading every, all the content to an outside server called a digital ocean and then digital ocean, wasn’t connecting with the WordPress. And so the videos weren’t playing and, you know, and it was all these like issues. Right. But you know, I think we’ve nailed them out for the most part, trying to think. And then, but yeah, lots and lots and lots of challenges.

And we’re still, we’re still going through challenges for sure.

Speaker 1 (28m 43s): Yeah. They, they don’t end when you launch the site because then always you, you always will come across things that need to be tweaked and fixed. It’s an ongoing process and it never ends, unfortunately. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28m 57s): And then, you know, we’ve got, I’ve got like affiliate, I, I say affiliate programs, but you know, I’ve got for my podcast, I have companies that I do advertising for on the podcast. And then, you know, people can try out their swinger site for free. So now we needed somewhere for people to access that, to access the links. So we had to add a partner’s page. And so people couldn’t find it because it was in the dropdown menu. So, you know, it’s all about, okay, well we’re, you have to put yourself as though you’re a three year old trying to navigate your way through a website. Yes. That makes sense.

So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): Oh it does. Because I say that and I say that in my broker tips on my, on this podcast, when I talk about looking at your own website and looking at it like a user, not as a developer, that’s the last thing that anyone should ever do is go to a web developer and say, Hey, put together a website for me. This is what I want in it. No, you have to be so specific and say, I want this here, this here, this here and this year and

Speaker 3 (30m 0s): They’re involved

Speaker 1 (30m 1s): And this is what I want it to do. And this, these are the capabilities that I want it to have. And in the process, they’ll do something. You’ll go, you know what, now it needs to do this. And what I always suggest to people is have friends who have no part in the industry, you know, just people, you know, go to the website and try it. Okay.

Speaker 3 (30m 28s): It’s exactly, exactly that. I’ll tell you. Here’s a perfect example of that. I had a guy that contacted a client on, you know, one of my webcam clients on Skype and he was just contacting me saying, you know, I cannot figure this out. I can’t figure out how to get back to the homepage. And I go, what do you mean you can’t figure out to get back to the homepage? So we shared the screen and I swear it was only 45 minutes of him and I together. And I go, oh my God, I have no idea where the freaking homepage is. So finally I contact my web guy and he says, it’s your logo in the corner? And I said, and how the hell is, anybody’s supposed to know that he says, everybody knows that.

And I go, I couple shit on that. Cause I didn’t know that.

Speaker 1 (31m 3s): And that’s a great example of a good example, insider knowing this. And I, I know normally that when you click on a logo, that’s gonna take you to the homepage, but it’s still a good idea to have the word home somewhere

Speaker 3 (31m 19s): To, because you have to imagine that whoever is looking at your site has no clue how to navigate through these things. And it’s got to be, you know, click here to register, click here for the newsletter, click here for the blog click here for the podcast. If you don’t say click or whatever, people can’t figure it out. Right.

Speaker 1 (31m 35s): So, absolutely. Let’s talk about your podcast, the hanky pinky podcast it’s been going on for a while. How’s it going? And who have been some of your favorite guests so far besides me? Of course.

Speaker 3 (31m 49s): Yes, of course. Right. It’s going really well. I would say that’s, it’s definitely something I’m very much enjoying. I really, really do enjoy it. Let’s see. I’m on, like, I think I’ve recorded 83 episodes now and

Speaker 1 (32m 2s): That’s great. I got I’m up to I’ve actually, well, I’ve actually released 103, but I’ve got another dozen or so interviews in the can. So there you

Speaker 3 (32m 12s): Go. Yeah. I think that’s what it is. I’ve released 83. I think that’s where we are. Let’s see. Most recent was Jenna star. So, you know, we talked about how, you know, she got discovered by, by Twitter, from BR, from, from brass ears. She was just a working as a cosmetologist, I guess. And then they discovered her then recently had Leanna Lovings just interviewed her yesterday or the day before. Absolute boots, sweetheart. That one is a doll favorite interviews. Hmm.

Okay. It’s hard. I think my most like educational, if I wanna say that are things that really taught me a lot was when I did a whole segment on golden era porn. So Richard Chenko Eric Monty, let me think. Sharon Mitchell. Yeah. Rob Everett, you know, those were really, really neat to Sean Elliot, you know, to learn the, the history behind 42nd street and Plato’s retreat and all these different things that I’d never even heard of.

Speaker 1 (33m 12s): Sure. Yeah. That’s it’s in any industry you need to know the history.

Speaker 3 (33m 17s): Absolutely. Absolutely. And I’m, I’m the girl that doesn’t watch porn. So, but one thing about my, my podcast, which I really try to make known to people is it’s not just people in the adult industry or just couples that are involved in the swinger lifestyle. Right. I try to bring in a variation of scientists and therapists or educators authors to, but anything that has to do with being sex positive. Sure, sure. And another real cool interview with my interview with Dr. Michael Perry, who is, he was a priest turned like instructional sex, sex, sex, instructional DVD.

He did all the directing, but he also got he’s a doctor, you know, sex therapist. And interesting. That was interesting how he went from priest to that.

Speaker 1 (34m 0s): Interesting. Yeah. Maybe he knew more as a priest than, and then he let off. Now, are you still shooting, running your swingers club and working as a wedding planner

Speaker 3 (34m 11s): Still shooting? Yes. Just recently shot. I was in Chicago, so I did two since scenes in Chicago. Yes. I’m still running my swingers club. A lot of my venues closed because of COVID. And so it’s been a, of course, little bit of a challenge to find new locations, but I have a brand new venue I just got in Los Angeles lined up for June 25th for my first event there. Okay. And the weddings, I still have my wedding business available on a like more word of mouth.

That’s the most stressful worst. I love being a wedding planner, but I hate, I hate my brides. I can’t stand. Especially their moms can’t stand what a

Speaker 1 (34m 51s): Shock

Speaker 3 (34m 51s): And I, yeah, I just, and to me it’s just, yeah, it’s just, you know, it doesn’t matter how hard I work or how much I go above and beyond. And, and like I have, I have amazing reviews. I won five start five years in a row, a couple stories, award winner on wedding wire, but it took one bride, one bride just a couple months ago to just put me over the edge. And I came home and I pulled my website. I said, I’m done. I’m absolutely done. One bride can do that to you. So

Speaker 1 (35m 17s): Yeah. Yeah. When they don’t appreciate what you do, sometimes it’s best to move on to the areas that are more fulfilling.

Speaker 3 (35m 25s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35m 26s): So you talk a lot about being a lifestyle coach, so, and, and you, you gave me some examples, but what exactly is a lifestyle coach and you did tell, you did tell me how people can book a consultation, but let’s, let’s, let’s break out something else here. Okay. Okay. Besides what is a lifestyle coach? How does that differ from a licensed counselor?

Speaker 3 (35m 53s): Okay. So that’s the one thing is that, you know, I always make it very clear to people that I’m not a therapist. I’m not, you know, a psychiatrist I’m, you know, not medically, you know, I, no doctorate, no paperwork behind that. I did go and get certified as a master of sexologist. And I did that more because I really wanted to understand some of these fetishes and kinks as a webcam performer, custom video girl, working in a brothel where do these fetishes and Kings stem from, and you know, how can I help somebody work through those?

And so that’s what I did that for. So a lifestyle coach, this is what I always tell people. I don’t believe I don’t care what doctorate I have. I don’t believe that I could counsel or be a therapist or a psychiatrist to someone who is going through being sexually molested or sexual abuse because I haven’t been there and I haven’t walked in their shoes. And so I, I don’t think that I have any right to tell them how to deal with this. Cause I haven’t been there. And with lifestyle I’ve been in the, in the, in the lifestyle as a married woman, as a, you know, a, a couple as a single, as an owner of a club.

And I’ve really seen it a lot, seen a lot. I can’t, I’ll never say I’ve seen it all, you know? Right. But I’ve seen a lot. And so I, I feel more than qualified to guide people and help them navigate their way through it. So lifestyle coaches, like I said, in the beginning, it’s somebody who will help you navigate your way through this journey either as a single or as a couple so that you don’t make the mistakes that I made. I wish somebody had, I, I truly think that my husband and I would’ve still been married had somebody guided us. Yeah, I really do.


Speaker 1 (37m 28s): So it’s so, so it’s strictly for the swinger’s lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (37m 31s): It’s strictly for the Stringer’s lifestyle. I don’t, if you’re yeah. So could I help a married couple? Maybe, you know, if there was, if they were having issues, for example, you know, a sex, a sexless marriage. Okay. Right. Could I help them? Yes. Cause I could probably give them ideas to incorporate role play and stuff like that to entice the relationship and bring the excitement to the bedroom again. Right. But ultimately I focus on the lifestyle community. Okay.

Speaker 1 (37m 55s): Okay. So you talked about the shows you’re gonna be attending. How can people meet you at them?

Speaker 3 (38m 3s): So the easiest thing to see how nice this is, you just go to my website, which is the coral and jewel.com. And then right there, you click on tours and it says, where can you find me? And it’s got everything from my swinger events, meet and greets classes that I’ll be teaching and then the different seminars where they can find me. So if this releases in a couple months, that would probably be four months. Would that be, I don’t know, like July I’m in Miami, July, August, December is Washington DC.

Where’s New Jersey. October’s in New Jersey. Okay. So great.

Speaker 1 (38m 39s): So in addition to piners, are you working with any other companies as a spokesperson or lead ambassador?

Speaker 3 (38m 46s): I’m working with a company out of where are they out? I don’t know where they’re, they’re there in Europe. Okay. But that hasn’t been released yet what we’re doing. So it’s kind of on the download. It’ll probably be out by the time this comes out. So I can probably say something. We are, we’re putting together a call it a PR firm if you want to. Okay. But it’s an all in one. So it’s, it’s it, it’s somebody like me, an adult performer that wants once, you know, once, you know, needs, needs help with press releases once, you know, logo done branding.

So it’s over, it’s an all in one branding business resource company.

Speaker 1 (39m 26s): Interesting.

Speaker 3 (39m 27s): Yes. And not just for the adult industry, Mike, one of our clients right now is a retired football player and we’ve got another client that is a radio podcaster. And so, you know, people come to us and they wanna rebrand and we’ve got my connections and my expertise in one field and then the rest of my team and their connections and you know, like the technical side of stuff. And we’re working on that together. So

Speaker 1 (39m 51s): Another business Corlon my God.

Speaker 3 (39m 54s): I know. I know. I know. I know. And that’s the whole thing that’s going crazy. That’s why I’m so crazy. I need help.

Speaker 1 (40m 0s): Ah, yeah. I think you probably should talk to a counselor about, you know, some, some people are shopaholics. I think you’re an entrepreneur aholic. Maybe

Speaker 3 (40m 9s): I know, but you know, what it was is that it’s that I really felt like we were missing that because, you know, I can find somebody to do my PR, but then if I want my website done, they couldn’t do my website. And then if I wanted to have somebody video my coaching webinars and help me put those on there, they couldn’t do that. And so I found a company and we formed one that could do it all in one. Yeah. Through one stop shop.

Speaker 1 (40m 31s): So what’s next for you? I’m almost afraid to ask.

Speaker 3 (40m 34s): I’m afraid to ask. Yeah. Next, let’s see, getting my documentary done. I have. I’m hoping by what did I give him? I said to, I said, I said New Jersey October by October. I want that released. My second book is just about done. I want that released by October. Then I’ll start my third book. And then really just getting this PR company off the ground, starting to get, you know, let, let, let people know that we’re out there it’s affordable. And I just wanna help everybody, you know, reach their, the best of their ability and their career, whatever it may be without anybody telling them that they can’t do it so

Speaker 1 (41m 10s): Well. You’re certainly a good example of that. Corland I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on adult site, broker talk and looking forward to part four.

Speaker 3 (41m 21s): Thank you again very much for having me, darling,

Speaker 1 (41m 23s): Always nice to have you. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your site, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation that the potential buyer may wanna find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images and number of videos.

How much of it is exclusive and how much is non exclusive financial information for at least the last three years. If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports get all the information organized in legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market.

The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything that a potential buyer needs to know such as? Are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts or anything else? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Kole Snodgrass of full swap radio.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Coralyn Jewel. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.


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