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Adult Site Broker Talk

At Adult Site Broker we broker websites and companies for the adult space. In this podcast we speak to the movers and shakers of the adult industry, in all aspects of the business. And we tell you how to buy or sell a website or company for maximum profit and with a minimum of trouble.

Adult Site Broker Talk

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with maverick UK producer Terry Stephens.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, internet.com. The ultimate internet domain is now available and we’re proud to list it. The domain gets 6 million unique visitors a month. This domain can be used for any of a number of uses. The opening bid is only $35 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and adult side broker talk is Terry Stevens. Terry, thanks for being with us today on adult site.

Broker talk, thanks for having me. I’m really honored to be here. Well, I’m honored to have you. I’ve been looking forward to this now Maverick producer, Terry Steven started out selling porn on VHS when the business was highly illegal in the mid nineties, before a chance encounter with the customer gave him the opportunity to make his first amateur movie. It was a couple of years later when he gained recognition as an amateur producer on the popular viewers wives series. From your choice in Holland, while still doing the round selling videos by mail order and door to door, I’d got him rated a two year court case in suit.

Meanwhile, Terry was gaining recognition with his new one. I Jack Gonzo series of movies that earned them a seven movie distribution deal to produce new movies for associates in the U S Terry teamed up with a partner and a launch wrist action entertainment. I love that name, a DVD distribution company, supplying sex shops across the UK. The problems with the new found industry gone legal had problems that required a constant concerted effort to set standards.

And UK producers was born from a chance gathering of producers to form an association under the name of producers for a pint, another great name everything’s about drinking their you cap. As it came to be known later was a collection of producers who engineered the much needed changes that were required in a largely unregulated business, which later found itself defending the right to produce adult content for sale in the UK and its numerous challenges from the RA teen online, 80 VOD and age verification.

At the same time, Terry was gaining momentum with his award-winning series, real couples, which was featured on Playboy’s sex cetera. And he was also juggling with productions and daily politics with performers and his commitment to the association, as well as staying ahead of all the changes that come with a business and a constant state of flux after years of being a secretary to the various administrations over a 10 year period, Terry became the default chairman for the full five-year term and oversaw the U cap awards from 2014 to 2018.

Since the pandemic Terry has been living in Bulgaria and continues to monetize his website. Sorry, Terry, that’s all the time we have for today. Nice talking to you.

Speaker 2 (4m 37s): Thank you very much. Goodbye. So yeah, pretty good. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (4m 42s): I do my best. So tell us about yourself and how you got into the adult business.

Speaker 2 (4m 50s): I came into the business when it was illegal to sell porn and made my posts through mail order and home deliveries. Before, you know, before that shark’s encounter with the customer where they asked me if I could find it, you asked me if I knew any couples that would make me want to make a video. Of course I didn’t because I saw videos, but I didn’t know a couple that were having an affair. And I told them about a friend who wanted to make a video. And I was quite surprised.

They said, yes, they agreed to do it.

Speaker 1 (5m 23s): And they were having an affair.

Speaker 2 (5m 25s): Yeah, I’ll have to elaborate on this a little bit more because I used to sell video from home and I used to do my, my, my selling, where could we to come into my home? So they’d look at the videos that they were to buy at this particular couple came to visit me one day and they said, look, you know, hotels are really expensive. Can we stack? Yeah. And I was like, this is highly unusual, but I was getting used to being highly unusual, some important times when I start meeting unusual customers.

So I said, yeah, man, whatever, you know, that had been a little bit extra. And because I knew that they were having an affair, I think it was probably why I asked them because it was a private video anyway. So I hooked them up with this other guy. He gave me his camera and I filmed them with it. I’d like to say that my career started from that moment, but it didn’t start till a couple of years later after the incident, he said he had no use for the camera and he left it with me. That took me about two years later, before I used it to film a girl who applied through an advert in an adult magazine.

And I really didn’t know what to do at all. I just knew that she was really pretty and others thought I’d be silly to pass up on this. So I asked a friend if he would be the stud for me. And he was like, what do, what? Why don’t you do it because I’m filming, what am I supposed to do? I can’t I at then, you know, I didn’t know. I wasn’t into the Gonzo thing. I was, I was like wet behind the ears. This is my first girl I ever filmed. So of course it was kind of awkward, but it was a nice meeting though, because when I, when I met her, I spent a bit of time asking her a question.

I was just generally curious why she would put an ad. What more would she answer an ad for selling videos to want to make videos? And she said, well, she thought it was a psychological thing. You know, people who sell it must make it. And I thought, now I’m powering this stuff, you know? Okay. I sit there, I found myself getting into the amateur film market then. And it, I was doing that for quite some time before, before I started meeting people in, in what was the beginnings of the auto industry at the time?

Well, yeah, I mean this, I think they’re the only real person that we had of any stature in the business at the time was Ben Dover because, you know, w we were still at a point where the industry was illegal. And I think we might’ve had some soft channels, like the adult channel, I think television X might have started at back then, but they were soft. So there was a whole different approach, but that’s a hardcore was highly illegal, but somehow there was an underground market if you like of people making movies.

Because I think there’s technology that facilitate that. I think it’s the fact that a lot of eight millimeter video cameras, but then came down in price and human beings being human beings will find uses for those, those cameras. And invariably it turns to sex. And I think back in the early days, most of the trading of adult videos was mainly done by swaps. So yeah, that’s the, that’s, that’s my, my early beginnings.


Speaker 1 (9m 2s): That’s your story. And you’re sticking to it. Okay. Well, and I think just about all of us got into the business by mistake. So, but it turned out to be a nice mistake for both of us. So what was it like selling porn back in the nineties compared to now?

Speaker 2 (9m 18s): Do you know? One of the things I, I tell a lot of people is from my own personal experiences, nothing’s really changed just the format. In other words, the principal is selling movies are still, you shoot it, you produce it, you sell it right. But then we were sending it on VHS videos, you know, these chunky cassettes and, you know, and, and nowadays it’s all file-based uploaded onto the internet and monetized to a clip site platform.

So that’s the format now, but there were, there are lots of other things that were different back then. We never had access to lotteries credit card processes. So we had to rely on cash and postal orders, which for great and checks, nobody remembers checks, but you can be used to get checked.

Speaker 1 (10m 12s): I remembered checks. I’m older than you are. I totally remembered.

Speaker 2 (10m 16s): Well, yeah. So, you know, we waited for the checks to clear so that we made sure we got our money because we never sent any of the goods out by mail order until we got our money. Otherwise they, they, they would cancel that check, which will probably be the modern equivalent of a chargeback. Yeah. Yeah. So back then we could avoid charge backs by waiting for the checks to clear. So when you think about it, it was better back then.

Speaker 1 (10m 38s): Yeah. You make, you make a good point.

Speaker 2 (10m 42s): I think a lot of things are more simple about that as well. I think that a lot of the business was out of sight out of mind nowadays, it’s just fallen in your face because of all the tube sites. Sure.

Speaker 1 (10m 53s): It’s everywhere.

Speaker 2 (10m 54s): And I think, yeah, and I think that’s, what’s causing us problems today. Otherwise the adult sites set up pay sites would be out of sight out of mind.

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. So when did you transition to couples porn and why, what did you feel? It was going to be more socially acceptable.

Speaker 2 (11m 14s): The transition to real couples came naturally on the basis of all my previous years. So I’ve worked with couples for the moment I started, but I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t shoot them as couples. I just shot them as boy, girl scenes. Right. But when I thought about it and we were starting to get a lot of no shows in the business at the time and my partner who jumped on board and moved before, about the time we did resection us, that it would be more practical if we just worked with couples.

And it made sense because that way that you’re not going to get one, not shoving. If there, if there are a couple, I, you gotta get boy, girl, so you’re gonna get boy girls too, because they live together. Right. So nine times out of 10, you’re always going to get shoot. So it made perfect sense to shoot couples and yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was, it was just a lot easier as well because the chemistry was already there. It just made everything easier. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12m 16s): Oh, that makes perfect sense. So now I gotta ask you this, what’s the deal with this alter-ego you’ve got naked truth guy. Now, how did that come about and what did you do?

Speaker 2 (12m 29s): Right. Okay. Nike chief guy came about, I think it was about 2014 when there was a guy called Jeremy Barnet who was campaigning against stop porn culture because we had people like anti-porn campaigners, Gail Dines, and Juni, Ben bull did conventions for people that was anti porn. So we,

Speaker 1 (12m 57s): I remember, I remember the protest across the street from the hotel in London.

Speaker 2 (13m 3s): That was probably the one we went to. Yeah. That’s pretty

Speaker 1 (13m 5s): Good. That’s where we met. Right, right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13m 8s): Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Cause there was a lot of people there it’s on YouTube, the video, but yeah, it started from there because I was merely just a camera man. Just documenting what was going on in the day. And I remember waking up on Monday morning and I think this was probably inspired because by, by a woman called Charlotte rose, who said to me, if you had a secret season to do a radio show, as you said to me, if you had a secret power, what would you want that power to be?

And I remember that, then it just came to me naturally. It’s just about the truth. Yeah. And she says, so your power would be telling the truth. I says, yeah. Do you know what? Yeah. I think it would be telling the trippy, cause there’s a, there’s a lot of lies being spread about porn right now. They’re trying to demonize a business that I’m in. I’m not who these people make me out to be. Yeah. So, and the no naked truth guy came out of that and I thought, wow. Yeah. So I set up my Twitter account as naked truth guy.

And I used that to talk about the, the things that I used as my commentary. So whenever I spoke to Google, like gal darn, she blocked me, by the way, you know, I w I was counteract their comments with the truthful comments. Like, I’ll say she said something, I would say, well, can you prove that? Because they can’t, they’ll come out with stop figures. Like, you know, for instance, the adult industry makes $98 billion a year. And I thought that can’t be, where did you get your fat shop?

And they don’t want to answer that.

Speaker 1 (14m 47s): Yeah. Got it. Very close by right out of their ass. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 50s): Is that, you know, and I called Gail Dines out because I was watching her, her what she was doing with her, her convention and some of the things that she was talking about because of how she was talking about sex addiction and whatnot. She was offering

Speaker 1 (15m 9s): Courses at $1,500. So I told her that she existed. Yeah. So you existed on the basis of flying an iPad tells or the adult industry. I said, in fact, you need us to do what you need to do for us. So you’ll make your money out of us. Isn’t that always the case.

Speaker 2 (15m 28s): Do you know what? She admitted that before she blocked me. She goes, yeah, you got my number, then block me.

Speaker 1 (15m 33s): Do you, do you think that the, the resistance to adult is any worse in the UK than it is anywhere?

Speaker 2 (15m 42s): No. I think there’s a, there’s a higher tolerance and acceptance to adult, especially with the public. My only problem as of late in recent, recent years, I think a lot of people now are starting to be a bit confused by performance calling themselves sex workers. Yeah. Because I think the confusion is, and I’ve noticed this because we started having problems within that industry. Now we’ve adopted that term sex worker.


Speaker 1 (16m 14s): It confused me at first

Speaker 2 (16m 15s): Too. Yeah. Because if you call somebody a sex worker, they might take offense to it. But it seems that a lot of girls, I ran a poll not so long ago. And I asked performance concentrators, you know, do you regard yourself as sex workers? I gave him three or four, three options and one, you know, open one so that he could discuss it below 75% of them came back. So, and there were sex workers and some of them were, were they’re mentally.

So defensive of it, they were offended that I wouldn’t see them as a sex worker. And so I said, okay, look at it another way, like take 10 civilian people. I want nothing to do with the auto industry civilians. Yeah. And ask them what comes to mind when you hear the term sex work, a sex worker prostitute. And yes. Every single time you get out here in Bulgaria.

Speaker 1 (17m 10s): Well, that used to be, that used to be the term for prostitute. That’s right. So, so tell me when, when did, when did the term sex worker start to apply to everyone? Including me? I guess.

Speaker 2 (17m 27s): Well, that’s the thing. I, oh yeah. I can. I, I’ve got a very good idea when it did start, because again, I think Charlotte rose fought for all of her best intentions was trying to create an umbrella term to destroy what she called the whorearchy. The whorearchy is something where, where certain people in the adult industry looked down at other people in that industry. But for instance, a glove on model will do a porn star and a bomb style look down at an escort.

And an escort looked down at the street and Walker, you know, they’ll, they’ll say I don’t do those sorts of things. I don’t do that sort of things. So you’ve got this division in the industry. What she said there was a problem at the time is that sex workers needed to unite on one issue because she was fighting for decriminalization of, of sex work right now, I think by blurring it, I could see what she’s trying to do. And like I said, for all intents and purposes, it was from the, for the greater good if you like, but ultimately I think by blurring everybody, there was no, there was no equality really, because what will happen is is that the people who could get bank accounts like porn stars and performers, because they can, they can claim themselves to be performing with add up performers.

They don’t call themselves porn stars or sex workers. Could you imagine gunshot bank and calling yourself a sex worker, but you went to a bank, but you went to a bank to say, oh, I’m an adult performer. That could be anything that could be a fire eater that could be, you know, a mainstream adult entertainment, you know?

Speaker 1 (19m 4s): So I wouldn’t even use the word adult with the bank because that’s

Speaker 2 (19m 7s): No, where does that lead? But I, I, but the point I’m trying to say is that there were more acceptable terms that they use to get a bank account. Yeah. And, and the, the differentiation was once just once everyone blurred themselves with sex worker, somehow the sex worker thing crept out. And suddenly now it’s a big issue with, with credit card processes now, because if you, if you link it to sister foster, what’s going on there, if everybody sees everybody as a sex worker, how do we know that some of you are not even traffic, correct?

Speaker 1 (19m 43s): Oh, assess to foster blurred the lines between, between pornography and, and prostitution.

Speaker 2 (19m 51s): Yeah. So that unity has cost us. It’s actually cost us our status basically.

Speaker 1 (19m 58s): Yeah. I’m I wasn’t really thrilled with it, but look, I’m not an, I’m not a performer. So if a performer wants, they want to call themselves sex workers, then I’m not going to tell them not to, you know, but at the, but at the time, at the time I was really uncomfortable with it when people started it probably about a year ago, I’d say, and I can’t say I’m, I’m a hundred percent comfortable with it now, but I guess it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (20m 27s): I think it can be filtered out slowly though. I’ve noticed that a lot of people who do call themselves sex workers, don’t call themselves sex workers. If there’s even TV night, for instance, I see them being interviewed. They don’t say so today we have having the studio. So-and-so, who’s a sex worker. They’ll say that they’re an adult entertainer or adult performer or whatever. So that they’ll, they’ll give them a more acceptable title. I think TV does that specifically because they know how toxic term sex work risks are in the studio to Toby.

Because at the moment you say sex worker is practically assent to the public, she’s a foster child.

Speaker 1 (21m 3s): Right. Right. Absolutely. So, so, oh, go ahead. I’m sorry.

Speaker 2 (21m 9s): No, no. Sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Okay. So I love talking to Brits with carry on and shagging and oh, the British Axiom sys it, it, it, it always amuses me being an American who doesn’t really speak English.

Speaker 2 (21m 24s): I know you can see why Austin tower did so well in America.

Speaker 1 (21m 28s): Oh my God. I love those movies. Yeah. Maybe. How has the current only fans phenomenon impacted your business?

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): Now everyone’s got an only fence account and none of them don’t feel they need to work for producers anymore. So there’s a certain arrogance that comes with that. So if you say, oh, I’m looking to book somebody for a scene, they’ll inflate their price because they just don’t want to work for you. Right. Or, you know, I mean, I, I spend a lot of time talking to talking to an arguing with performers who are friends of mine, you know, and I we’ve caught onto you now, you know, you know, we, we know how much money could be.

Then you’ve been denied that for such a long time. And I thought, well, no, the industry was what it was before, because we know exactly how many sales we made. So the rates of pay were kinda dictated because you had, you know, producers have to have a budget when they’re making a movie. Correct. Yeah. And on that budget, you have to have a return on investment. That’s what a lot of performers don’t seem to understand. All this stuff is just basic maths. Wow. So, you know, the rates are paid well, what they were, because that was the size of our market.

You know, we didn’t pay as much as America because we don’t sell the amount of units that you can send in America. We’re not as bigger landmass market as America. And not only that, we’re still seen as a little bit. We’re not, it’s not illegal. There was a, there was a, there was a legal adult industry in the UK, but you know, there are various government quangos over the years who kind of didn’t want to get their fingers dirty, but you know, they’d kind of dip their finger in to say, well, we’d have to moderate you.

You know, you can’t do this, you can’t do that. And I think that kind of bred a sense of censorship in like, well, how are you to tell people who are in the lifestyle, how to have sex, you know? But anyway, back to LP. Yeah. It, it affected the, the, my business anyway, because a lot of people just started doing it for themselves.

Speaker 1 (23m 40s): Yeah, no, no doubt about it. So you’re one of the founding members of a, you cap the association for adult producers. Why did you set up an association specifically for producers and what does it do exactly.

Speaker 2 (23m 57s): This was at a time when porn just became legal and to the year 2000, as you mentioned earlier on, when you first started out, we first met up at a convention called erotica, which was a massive event at Earl’s court. We all stayed in the same hotel and it was a great time because a lot of people started putting faces to names, think of it like experts, if you like, but it was like a lot more smaller than that between us producers.

So we’re all staying at the same hotel. We meet up in the lobby for breakfast and, you know, we’d get shot. And anyway, the course with producers, it always invariably gets round to the business where we love talking about business. And, and we, there were, there were problems that needed to be addressed at the time. And we felt well, no, I, I used to always say at the is no, man is an island unto themselves. So the food going to make any changes, don’t you think we’d make it as a bigger voice together.

Or we could go out that way and try and do it singly. Every time people single-handedly tried to bring about change, nothing ever happened, because nobody ever wanted to hear a single voice. But when you had a whole bunch of people said, Hey, come down to this meeting. There’s 30, 30 producers waiting in this room, want answers? Somebody would say, well, get your jacket on. Then I’ll, I’ll be attending that meeting because they’ll feel that they have an audience of people to speak to. And at the time there were, I would say the luminaries of the adult industry at the time were there.

And we were able to discuss amongst ourselves votes amongst ourselves, you know, and we came to conclusions and then we affected the next move. We had people down and we made changes our biggest one, massive one, very cataclysmic one actually was in 2004 when Darren James infected six models in the us industry.

Yeah. That impacted the adult industry is since shockwave even to the, to the UK, because some of our best performers in the UK came back and they were horrified. They were shell shocked. And they were yelling at us producers that we need to change. Staff change the standards in the industry from three months tests to one month. And at the, not many people remember this, but yeah, we only used to ex expect tests within three months, every three months.

So she had to go about, well, yeah,

Speaker 1 (26m 47s): Because you don’t want to damage in three months. Oh

Speaker 2 (26m 50s): Yeah. But you know, but then the asteroid already hit, you know, the reality came home to us with that because we were thinking that the incubation period for HRV was three months. So I can really get our test every three months. Well, to be honest, it wasn’t, it wasn’t, there was no regulation. People just made that rule. That that was the logic I’ve got my test. How long have you got it? Oh, it’s still within three months. Okay. You can work. But then when we, when we had a meeting with producers and performers, that’s when we universally agreed that it had to be done every 28 to 30 days back then.

Yeah. And then we also had the smarts to bring in the clinics as well, to give us their professional opinion and to be fair, the clinics only used to test every three months for free. But because of the adult industry, they did a special deal with us to say, okay, we’ll create these gold cards for performers to get tested so that we can identify performers in the industry who need to be tested every month.

So, yeah, that was our first victory as, as new cattle producers later on, of course we, every time we came, we only had four meetings a year. So every producer would bring any of their issues or discussions to the meetings. And we’d we’d have meetings with, or day trips out to people at the BBFC who would discuss how they make their, their cuts for adult on turn, or we’d have guests from, from liabilities, employment and liabilities.

Because one of the, the next thing that we were concerned about is that producers didn’t feel they were liable for anything refill. No, no, that’s it. Guys. You need to understand that if we’re not illegal, we have to conform with what’s legal term. That means employee liability. So somebody trips over in a lie and you’re set, what’s going to happen. We’ve had numerous accidents in the auto industry that just went unregistered. And we’re lucky that no one’s ever sued a producer.

Speaker 1 (29m 4s): Really?

Speaker 2 (29m 5s): Yeah. We’re lucky. Yeah. That no one’s ever sued a producer.

Speaker 1 (29m 9s): I think of anybody. I think if anyone did and it wasn’t something very serious. I think they’d probably have a little trouble getting work. I think that’s kinda the way it works.

Speaker 2 (29m 19s): Yeah. There is that. But I think there was some, some people just, just took it on the chin just because it was an accident and it wasn’t their fault. I mean, I, I, I know that a guy broke his Dick on my scene once, but the thing by the interesting thing is

Speaker 1 (29m 33s): Just hearing it.

Speaker 2 (29m 35s): Yeah. No, but you know, try as you might, you know, there are adult do our insurances that do cover aspects of the adult industry, but they do not cover anything to do with interest injuries related to production, which is interesting because the mainstream industry has industry liability insurance to protect mainstream actors because it’s a bigger industry. There’s more legitimate, but then if we’re not illegal, why can’t we be allowed the same thing?

They, they won’t underwrite a porn film for that ship, even though it’s not illegal. Hmm.

Speaker 1 (30m 13s): Yeah. That’s the old double standard. We know how that goes.

Speaker 2 (30m 17s): Well, yeah. Again with you Kat, we were trying to challenge people’s thinking. Yes. Yes. And I think we, we, we started making a collection of very influential friends and people who provide us services in the industry. So we became a hub for all that. Right. So we, we, it’s not, so later on, in recent years, did, did we invite more guests to the meeting so that we could understand the industry better or for people to understand us better?

Right. You know, like, like, which was probably a little bit unusual, but we had somebody like revenge porn online. I was trying to tell people that the reason why you have your model releases, one of the things that drew me to producers is the importance of how they model releases and, and not just model releases to correctly word it, model releases, you know, the, one of the stage named one of the real name and the address and the date of birth signed, and also the words for, you know, the ownership of the material.

You do understand that it is owned by me. I can profit from this blah, blah, blah, whatever I said, you need to have those. I said, it’s

Speaker 1 (31m 28s): To be written by a good attorney.

Speaker 2 (31m 30s): Well, nobody ever paid for an attorney back then, except I was dealing with a few companies that I was shooting with and I managed to obtain proper legal, right. Legally written releases and adopted that into my standard release. So I’ll ask to people that my, my ones pretty much ironclad because I’ve had it re read by a lawyer, answer that. Yeah. Okay. It’s covered. I’ve had various incidences where I had to provide my paperwork and it kept me at a call because of the wording.

Exactly. So, yeah. So I would run into people, the importance for model releases.

Speaker 1 (32m 12s): Absolutely. You were also involved with the U cap awards. Now, what made you decide to get into that and how did it work out for the businesses

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): Right now? This is interesting early on in the cap years early, you kept years. I just had, I just didn’t believe in the awards. I just didn’t understand them. But to be honest, when it, when they did do the first one, I kind of kept away from it until I got the call from one of the members. So not very, you have to turn up to the why the, and I said, because you one, all right. And I said, but you know, I’ll have to tell you that because I’m wondering what you want to get you there.

Okay, fine. Fair enough. When I turned that, you know what, the, the night was really impressive, he’d done a fantastic job. It was Phil black organized the first, I mean, he was a member of you cap, but it wasn’t called the new capital wars, but it was called catheter. So it was the UK adult film and television awards, which is quite clever. Right. Because what he did, he also included adult in mainstream. Right. So you’ll see in the news, it’s still there. If you look, look for it on, on a Google search, you will look for you capita, you’ll find a Wiki page.

I’ve done it, who put that together, but somebody did. And, you know, I remember back in the day, the, a couple of name is now Benny, that she’d done secret diary of a call girl. And, and that was like the big series at the time. And that one of award. So I could see what they’re trying to do. They were trying to merge the adult industry with mainstream adults. But that makes sense smart. Yeah. It was a marketing thing, really just to help, to help elevate the industry. But then, I mean, I didn’t get that back then.

And so afterwards, when I saw the impact of what it did, right. And I became a fan after that, but I still know I, but the way I look at the event, wasn’t my event. It was Phil Black’s. He had done the first three events. Right. So when it, when it came to my time to take over, you cap off, it was about 2014. We D we kind of did it because I was kind of pressured by Jerry to do an event for experts because they were there to attend the party.

And Jerry said it would be a good idea to have something a bit more substantial than just a party to drink. Let’s have, let’s have an awards for, for, for them to enjoy. So I thought, okay, so I’ll do, I’ll do the about eight categories. And when I was doing that, I started a real, I started believing in, in, in what I was doing. I saw the potential for look what we’re doing here. We’ve got Americans over here from X beers. Okay. And we’re presenting winners. And I remember that the winners did go on to bigger and better things.

At the time they were kind of stuck in what I would call suspended animation. They, they worked in the business for amateur producers, but that was about it. After that they were working in Europe and traveling around. And I know one particular girl was doing particularly well, actually, no, they all did well. They all did well from then on, I mean, I wouldn’t take any credit for that just because of the awards. I mean, they had to go out and get the work and still be a success.

But you know, what, what I saw was the potential to elevate our business and raise profiles. Right.

Speaker 1 (35m 44s): Right.

Speaker 2 (35m 46s): And I realized that it could be a promotional vehicle for all those involved with the business, not just producers, but the health services. Everybody involved. Yes, absolutely. It’s the one time, it’s the one time where everybody in the adult industry, whether they like awards or not do a pay attention. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36m 5s): Now, now, have you got any thoughts on why mental health issues are more on the rise in the business?

Speaker 2 (36m 12s): Yeah. Two words. Social media,

Speaker 1 (36m 16s): No kidding.

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): It’s not just social media though. There are, there’s a lot more pressures on performance these days to succeed, even though they’re doing well on their only fans, I’m finding a lot of girls are just breaking down from dealing with the demand, dealing with the demand of fans, dealing with the demand of the work. They have to put out promotion shooting as well as having a life. Well, as well as beautifying themselves, what does, you know, raising children? Because people forget that, you know, some of these girls do have children as well.

They have families to feed. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it all weighs in on them. So yeah, it can be very difficult. Social media is another one because I see that as a blessing and a curse. I think social media has replaced the mailing desks that we had back in the old olden days. And, you know, it’s convenient now because you can tweet out there and people come to your site and they can sign up and it’s, you know, that’s great. But you know, there are problems that the other side of it, of that coin is that, you know, you’ll get trolls, you’ll get people wanting attention and psychologically, it kind of breaks a lot of girls down.

So not girls have a, not to deal with this, especially with social media. I mean, there was a particular incident that, you know, there was a time when we was losing a girl every month in America, particularly. Yeah. That’s right. And, and most of that was around social media. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 50s): That was before a pineapple support got started. In fact, I was, I was, I was interviewed on, on their podcast a couple of nights ago.

Speaker 2 (37m 59s): So yeah. I mean, I interviewed layer tenant as well because I’ve worked with understand a bit more about pineapple support because being in the UK, I was trying to get people over here to understand the importance of mental health. But the good thing about what pineapple support are doing is that it’s adult industry specific. Yes,

Speaker 1 (38m 18s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (38m 20s): Because a lot of charity organizations, I mean, I’m not, I’m personally not trained to deal with this, but I’ve had to deal with the phone calls at two o’clock in the morning from a subject girl. And I’m thinking who’s this. And I heard him crying and sobbing said, I’m sorry to call you Terry. But you’re the only one I know that’s up to this time in the morning, you know, I just need someone to talk to. Yeah. By all means go, what’s ma what’s about to go, you know, and they’re telling me, you know, whatever their issue is. I think sometimes just girls just want and listening air and they just don’t trust anybody else to, to, to listen because that’s a

Speaker 1 (38m 58s): Compliment. There was a stigma, that’s a compliment.

Speaker 2 (39m 1s): Well, a lot of girls now I talk about a lot of deep stuff and it’s not just the girls. I help. I help you guys as well. I think a lot of guys don’t show their emotions very well. So, you know, it’s, it’s a big deal to me when a guy decides that I’ve got something really personal to talk about. And you know, it’s not the easiest thing to talk about. It’s not easy as a male to talk about. You’ve been assaulted by another guy, you know, that it’s not easy. So, you know, I had the bind, I understand the darkness with that goes on in as well.

And I’ve come to the conclusion that are not people’s problems in the industry is not even to do with the work itself it’s to do with the outside world.

Speaker 1 (39m 42s): Yeah. Yeah. No social, social media, social media gets so toxic, including some of our own social media. Sometimes, sometimes the, some of the people on X, because it’s just incredibly toxic. I had one, one such case last week and which, which has an ambassador, you may be familiar with we’re we’re as we record here in early September, by the way. But no, it’s very toxic and people have feelings and some of these keyboard warriors don’t realize that and they just tear people shred to shred, and then they just go on with their day.

And it’s just, I don’t know. I don’t know what the answer is

Speaker 2 (40m 27s): Usually. Well, the anonymity of it all makes it easy.

Speaker 1 (40m 30s): Sure, sure. The problem I had was a guy who doesn’t even use his name. You know, he, he uses it. He uses a handle, which, which I know a lot of people in adult do, but it doesn’t make it any easier.

Speaker 2 (40m 45s): Yeah, no, it doesn’t make, well, you say it doesn’t make it any easier, but now you know that people are hiding behind it. And number two, it should help you understand thing. Do you know what I mean, naked truth guy. I had to set up as a separate name because I used to get into arguments as you can, because a lot of people didn’t trust. You kept in it’s early days. They thought we were, the thought has been, we’re some kind of consortium of producers trying to control the industry.

And we had all kinds of expectations of the liters and everything. And it got to the point where I was being defensive and some people would just get downright nasty. Now people say that I get into arguments. But one thing I refuse to get into is being downright nasty. I will not get downright nasty and I will not get personal. What I will get is eloquent. So if I’ve got to attack you, it’s going to be on an intelligent level.

Speaker 1 (41m 41s): You are so British Terry, you are so British. That’s one. That’s one of the things I love about the Brits, by the way,

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): It’s one of the things I love about the Brits as well. Is that how they can eviscerate you with just words?

Speaker 1 (41m 53s): Yes. Yes, indeed.

Speaker 2 (41m 55s): Indeed. And I think just a well-placed word will just destroy you. Whereas another person will, I mean, I’ve seen people who started out as bodies be broken in half by not being able to answer back to something that’s intelligent.

Speaker 1 (42m 12s): Well, I do a lot of this. I do a lot of the same, you know, I’ll, I’ll respond back to people in a very intelligent and well thought out way. And yeah, they don’t know what to do with that because they’re not, they’re not used to people being taught.

Speaker 2 (42m 28s): I tell you what it all comes back down to the same thing. Isn’t it all, very art of war by some SU sorry.

Speaker 1 (42m 35s): It’s what,

Speaker 2 (42m 36s): It’s all very art of war by sun suit. <inaudible> yeah. Okay. Now when you look at yeah, a lot of the philosophies that he had in that book was quite amazing applied to the way life is today. But if you want to, if you want to agitate your bully, yeah. I’ll be, I’ll call it the same. But anyway, but if you entertain your bully and they resort to getting personal with nasty words, they’ve lost the battle. As we battle this one before it’s fought is another one. That’s it’s true. Every bat and this one before it’s full.

It’s very true if you think about it. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s what I love about the art of war anyway. But every time people talk about Twitter and arguments, it does remind me a lot. I said, if people read the art of war, they will understand how to deal with people and trolls on social media, some people, oh yeah. It’s, you know, it’s not a very big book. It’s not very long book, but it’s got some great stuff in it. It it’ll make you think, do you think, Hey. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So that makes sense. It will help you be a bit more strategic in your approach to speaking to people. So sometimes if somebody’s having a go at you just let them have a go at you and then wait a minute. Are you done yet? You know? And then, then that’s when you can hit them with the facts.

Speaker 1 (43m 59s): Oh yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, my use of social media these days is pretty much limited to business, a little bit of soft Twitter and soft Facebook personal, but I got into Facebook heavy and Facebook kept, helped convince me that I don’t want to be there. So anyway, so it was a time-waster anyway, my God. So what are the differences between the indie content producer and the current content creator?


Speaker 2 (44m 31s): Going to say there’s no difference between the two. I mean, our started out as what we would call back in the day as a semi pro and then I became Pro-Am. Yeah. And we, we had less terms, but then, I mean, in porn people might’ve called me a console producer. Nowadays I’m hearing people being called content creator. And I think this is a corporate word for corporate work. Corporations don’t want to call people porn producers.

No, because they’re trying to take away that then they don’t, it’s not that they don’t want to be associated with it. They’re just trying to clean up the act a little bit and make it a bit more presentable. Sure. Yeah. So they came up with the term content creator. It was a general term for people who create content. Right. Well, I mean, I can name drop here. Only offense is probably the biggest one behind that because they tend to, they tend to promote people who are content creators. Don’t do adult. So what they’re trying to do is now of accessibility.

So when they’re promoting it, they could say, Hey look, you know, we’ve got people who are doing fitness training, cookery, painting music, playing the piano. But behind all that, take a quick look around the corner, 72, 9 or double penetration. It’s like, you know, oh yeah, they’re content creators. But we don’t talk about that.

Speaker 1 (45m 58s): Now that doesn’t, that doesn’t, it doesn’t fit their corporate profile at all. No.

Speaker 2 (46m 3s): Well, and for good reason, because they are a corporate, there they are. They’re almost like a clearing house for money to go through. So they don’t really cook. No corporation wants to be seen like that. I can understand that I get it. They want it, they want to clean up the face of it, but they recognize that they’re also making a lot of money from that Jodie word sex workers.

Speaker 1 (46m 30s): I was just going to say, and their, and their content creators are calling themselves sex workers. It’s really kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (46m 37s): Oh yeah. So you could see the embarrassment that is like, so could you imagine that a convention with MasterCard and visa getting together with only fans at a nice swished dinner and they’re all say, ah, so you have, you’re dealing with these sex workers. Are you and only friends kind of being a bit embarrassing? Well, yeah, they bring in a lot of money and they don’t mean any harm. You know, they’re doing their thing. Oh yes. But they’re still common prostituted aren’t they, you know, you can almost, you can almost hear it at the dinners already.

You know? And it’s funny because I, I did deal with a merchant banker. One of, one of our members that you kept as a merchant banker, we asked what, what exactly is this problem between while we, while we are denied certain financial services and he tells us this one simple answer, he says, because the banks just don’t have an appetite for adults. If the truth be known, most of their wives, most of the wives of these executives behind financial companies don’t want them getting involved in that,

Speaker 1 (47m 40s): There it is. There it is. Or their churches.

Speaker 2 (47m 45s): Well, yeah, churches very rarely mentioned in the UK and this is something that’s very American. You know, that the sadly in the UK, the churches seem to be a little bit more understanding that, you know, we S we understand that people like to masturbate over these things and they will have a sex life. And they realize that they don’t want to become unpopular by being old fuddy duddies. Right. So, you know, but so they’ve got to promote the whole love and marriage thing as the proper way to do things. But, you know, they’re a little bit more understanding.

There’s just so much stuff out to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (48m 21s): So how real are the couples on real couples or is it just a concept for generic boy, girl movies?

Speaker 2 (48m 30s): Oh, they’re all real know. This is interesting because people in the industry tend to think that, oh, that they could just come along and just do real couples for me. And I’ll say, no, sorry, a little bit interview partner. Oh, we only met up about a week or so. It doesn’t count. That is it really, you’ve got a history between you. There’s nothing to talk about. It just, you might not be together in six months time. I said, look, and they say, well, what difference does it make?

We’re a couple, I said, you say you’re a couple, but the people I said, what are some of the things I’m going to talk to you about? Cause it’s not just about the sex scene. It’s about how you are. Do you live together? You know, all these little, all these little things that make up a relationship, you know? I mean, I think you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re adult relationships in the industry are just as valid as the real world, because you are people from the real world. Right. Otherwise other people just don’t see it as just another porn scene and, you know, porn scene with porn, people do important sex.

I said, yeah, I don’t really want that. I want, what, what, what real sets? Yeah. They said, well, what’s that mean then like 10 minutes sex and then roll over fart and go to sleep. Do you need,

Speaker 1 (49m 46s): Do you direct the couples? If they’re porns as if they’re porn stars? No.

Speaker 2 (49m 50s): Oh, I don’t. But I’ve got a very crafty way of manipulating them. Well, let me, let me explain that. So what it is, I always spend a lot of time finding out what they like doing. And I tell them to be, to be honest, I said, you can show whatever you want. I said, what you got to over the other couples are going to be watching you. So you’re kind of going to be educating them. So if there’s a particularly thing that helps you perform better, then carry on doing it as a, don’t be ashamed of whatever you do. If you like to be pegged by your misses, you know, you like a reach round or whatever you got to be redeemed or whatever specific specific actor is, you do.

Don’t be embarrassed because I said, couples, enjoy watching other couples being honest with each other. Oh

Speaker 1 (50m 33s): Yeah,

Speaker 2 (50m 34s): Absolutely. So once I’m, once I’ve instilled that trust in them, that’s when it’s usually the woman. That’s really more like, oh yeah, he likes this. He likes that baby. You can’t be tentative. And I said, no. I said, honestly, I said this, this is really I don’t. I said, look, wherever you’ve learned important to unlearn it now. Yeah. That’s it just be chilled out, man. I said, yeah, don’t feel that you’re under pressure to perform. If you want to do a bit, now do a bit late or you want to watch a bit of TV.

I said, ultimately, I want to be fly on the wall and just document really what you’re like. And I think people prefer that. Yeah. I mean, I was pretty the first filmmaker to do that because everyone was concerned about for positions have become short. And it has to tell you that you’re not doing it the right way. I said, no, I’ll do it my way. Okay. I sit there. I shoot. I edit. Okay. And do you know what I said? If you wanna, if you want some kind of measure for, if your port is any good ask yourself, would you buy it?

Would you buy your own content? And I’d have to say, yeah. Okay. Well, not this shit.

Speaker 1 (51m 42s): That’s exactly right. Any art form. Yeah. Any art and an art form, any art form. It’s gotta be something you like, because if it isn’t something you like others won’t like it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51m 54s): Yeah. I mean, I felt I was making sexual documentaries. So what I said, I manipulate them. I find out what they’re like and I’ll try and get it in the pictures. So the manipulation is when it comes to the pictures, because I’ve done it in the picture. There’s sometimes they’ll say, oh no, I did that in the picture. I did it in a way that was easy. I could do it here in a video. You see what I’m saying? It’s so I’ve kind of directed that almost by auto suggestion.

Speaker 1 (52m 24s): Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense.

Speaker 2 (52m 27s): Yeah, but I, I don’t stop a director because I think the moment you’ve got to stop and direct someone you’re going to break the flow of the day. It’s going to make it a long day and it’s not going to be real.

Speaker 1 (52m 38s): No, you might as well just, just take the first part of the title off.

Speaker 2 (52m 42s): So. Yeah, exactly. But although I would like to say this, this is the one thing that you could trip me up with, but when you say how real is real couples, well, how real is it when the camera man’s in there?

Speaker 1 (52m 55s): Yeah. That’s true. That’s true. I think you’re being too Terry. I think you’re being too philosophical.

Speaker 2 (53m 1s): Okay. Well now I’m probably going to get worse. Let’s get,

Speaker 1 (53m 6s): Oh God, this is true. This is true. So what challenges do you see with running a website these days?

Speaker 2 (53m 15s): Yeah, I think it business back to the real couples though. I think I noticed since the only fans phenomenon that a lot more couples are it for themselves now. Yeah. So why would they want to work for a producer? You know, and yeah. What would they want to work for a producer? I think that’s one of the challenges. I think the other challenge probably would be the payment processes again with what’s going on, where the ones that are taking a bashing for it.

Because for, for many years we were out of sight out of mind, you know, we work, we, we work custodians of records because you know, not things don’t lock into it and forget that producers have to have paperwork. Yep. So we were all above board with our paperwork, every site that I know that’s if you look at every site at the bottom of the page, they’ve all got custodial direct calls at the bottom, really? That they’re all 2, 2, 5, 7 compliant. Correct? The problem, the problem with the industry, I think is where a lot of content creators became used to shoot in stuff on their phone, uploading it to a site and not putting any paperwork up.

I think playtime’s over now. I think what happened at PornHub was the unverified users is now impacting now on content creators, you know, who are doing sexual content. I don’t think it applies to everybody because you know, some people are doing, you know, like music videos, for instance, you’re not going to ask for model releases for that because they’re not having sex. They’re doing some music thing, creative. But if you’re, but what people need to understand is that, that or that I don’t think a lot of people realize is that if you’re filming people, having sex, it is actually illegal to film them doing so without their consent.

Did you know that it’s an actual, it’s actually not. It’s an actual law

Speaker 1 (55m 13s): In the UK. Okay.

Speaker 2 (55m 14s): Okay. In the UK. Yeah. It’s, it’s actually a law now in the UK. And what I was trying to tell people is that you could find yourself on the receiving end of a revenge porn case. Yeah. Yeah. Because I found that statistics, revenge porn laws now the four offenses I’ve deviled every year since I started.

Speaker 1 (55m 33s): Jeez. Well, I don’t have a problem with that, to be honest with you. Cause I just think that’s the lowest form when guys do that. Or if girls show it. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (55m 42s): Yeah, exactly new. I mean, I remember that certain guys used to do it because they were spurned. They were spurned lovers. If you like, so you know, to go got rid of him by a video type of send it to their parents. Oh, look at your daughter. Now she’s a porn star. I always found that very low.

Speaker 1 (56m 2s): Yeah. It’s very low. It’s very low. And I, I don’t have a problem with any punishment for it, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (56m 9s): Yeah. Well, no, well that’s how we felt about it in the industry. So look, mate, if you’re going to go that low, you know, you know, we’re not going to be shedding a tear for you. If you get a Crick in, by somebody, you know, you went out your way to, to, to, to hurt her in the worst way possible. Yeah. So Hey, you know, justice is justice. We just have to look the other way.

Speaker 1 (56m 31s): So what advice would you give to people in the adult business today, especially those just getting started,

Speaker 2 (56m 38s): Definitely to pay attention, to get your model releases, correct your paperwork. Correct. Also there’s a wealth of knowledge out there now try and absorb as much of it as you can try and be part of groups and organizations where they discuss certain things that may impact on your business. You know, what’s happened with only fans recently. I mean, I’ve got an only fans account, but when they suddenly said, oh, all the hardcore has to be off by October.

The first I didn’t sweat it. I just kind of, because I’m aware of what was going on for months. You know, being an expert, again, being an expert, that’s a wealth of information there, you know, I mean some days between us. Yeah. You know what, when you get a bunch of people together, sometimes not, everybody’s going to be on the same level of experience and manage. So some, some people are a little bit more frivolous than others and might upset others. So that’s when it kind of gets into mediocrity.

And there’s a lot of that around anyway. So I wouldn’t just put that down next biz.

Speaker 1 (57m 45s): I got to tell you it’s been, it’s been better lately. In fact, I put a post up about that, that I was always happy to see more business oriented posts and some really good threads.

Speaker 2 (57m 56s): Yeah, absolutely. And that’s what you’d expect. That’s the wealth of information that I’m talking about because people who are performers, whether you’re a performer content, creator, producer, whatever level you are in the business, what I’ve loved about experts is that if you’re looking for anybody, you know, like yourself, somebody who sells websites, you approach <inaudible> manages the, the selling and the buying and selling of websites, designers, you know, that’s where you’re going to find it. You’re going to find it in a community just like that.

You know? So it’s great to, to, to be part of it is, is one thing, another thing is to be part of a certain social media groups, because you just never know that they’ll come up with something that you think, well, please, can you expand on this? This sounds interesting. What you’re talking about. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. You know, also if you’re a performer, you should try and understand who are the right people to speak to when getting a reference. Yeah. Because there’s a lot of sharks in the business now, a lot of chances and sometimes it ends up pretty bad.

Yeah. And also I would say, don’t do anything you don’t want to do. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do people say to you, oh, you’re never going to be a real porn star. If you don’t do this, tell them to get lost. You don’t have to do that. You’re not ready for it yet. Exactly. Yeah. I said, I mean, I need goals like that when I first came into the business. And one of the things that I’ve learned is that when they’re ready to do it, that will, they will practice and train themselves accordingly to when they’re ready to do it.

Right. That’s the best way. That’s the best way. Sure.

Speaker 1 (59m 40s): Yeah, exactly. So you’re currently living in Bulgaria, which is interesting. Now, is there much of an adult scene there and what are you doing there?

Speaker 2 (59m 50s): Well, at the moment I’ve been living at here because of the pandemic. I mean, I originally came out here to live and commute back to London for business. I would have been at a three or four weeks. I spend a week in London to catch up with people, but it didn’t end up being that way because the pandemic, the planes are grounded. And I found myself spending a lot more time here, but a lot of people tend to think that, oh, he must be living the life of Riley drinking every day and just doing nothing. No, I’m busy with my memoirs and, and marketing my content.

I’ve got content out here and I’m working on a marketing, I’m still doing my social media. I still making money. So I still make money. It was great because I mean, the great thing about the current era with technology is that you only need wifi and a mobile phone just market. Excuse me. Yeah. It’s brilliant. You know, and I found that, you know, my sales have been better this year, as well as all of that.

Speaker 1 (1h 0m 48s): Oh yeah. Yeah. I had a great, I had a great 20, 22. It was a 2020. It was a great year.

Speaker 2 (1h 0m 55s): Yeah. I mean, I was expecting, I was expecting an impact, you know, like with the pandemic, nobody wants to spend money on anything because they were buying too much toilet paper, you know, no money for anything else. And then suddenly I think, wow, I’m actually doing better than I was before.

Speaker 1 (1h 1m 11s): Yeah. I, you know, what I thought was going to happen? I thought there would be an initial spike because people were home and there was, but from talking to people with sights and also looking at people’s financials, now it hasn’t dropped off at all. And I think what it did was get us a lot more customers in the industry and they’re not going away. So it’s turning out to be a long-term boon. The bad side for me is some people are selling their sites. But yeah, no, I mean, it’s a real buyer’s market right now, but yeah, I saw, I expected it was going to fall off when people started losing their jobs, but it didn’t

Speaker 2 (1h 1m 52s): Do you know what I think we can attribute to that? I think the fact that port is a lot more accessible and cheaper than it was before. But you look about the future. A lot of RV fans accounts, a lot of girls are doing a special discounts, like ridiculously cheap, like $2, $53, 50. So a lot more people going to rush into that, knowing that they can get a lot of content for very little money.

Speaker 1 (1h 2m 16s): Right. But I’m S I’m seeing, I’m seeing it with pay sites too. I’m seeing pay sites with great numbers from last year and this year.

Speaker 2 (1h 2m 23s): Yeah. Well, I think people could see value for money. I mean, if you saw it to myself, I’m advertising already. If you sell it to my site, you can get access to 20 other sites all for one price. There you go. Charges. Yeah. So I’m at, at times my site, but yeah. So yeah, that’s real couples.com, real couples.co.uk. Let me start again properly. Real couples.com or real couples.co.uk is my main site.

If you join up to that site, you can get access to 20 other sites. Fabulous. So, yeah, but if you want to follow me as well, you can follow me on at naked truth guy on Twitter. And also if you were to follow, my movies is actually real couples on Twitter as well.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 18s): Fabulous. Okay, Terry,

Speaker 2 (1h 3m 20s): Hey, I have one more. Last one, one last thing. If they’re looking for discussions on, on getting into the industry health, anything to do with producing content creation, they can follow me at official U cap.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 42s): Fantastic. At officially you cap.

Speaker 2 (1h 3m 46s): Yeah. Beautiful. That’s UK AP official UK IEP.

Speaker 1 (1h 3m 51s): Fantastic. Hey Terry, this has been as, as you guys would say brilliant. I’d like to, I can’t do. I can’t do the accent. Sorry. I like to thank you for, for being our guests again today on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. Thanks for having me. It’s my pleasure. My broker tip today is part one on how to buy an adult site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a cam site, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site or something else.

If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and what niche? There were literally hundreds of niches in many sub-niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears or mature, bareback Asian, Latino amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification. Plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms straight has even more sub-niche shoes.

I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site, or I want to buy a pay site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like man, and want to make money on a straight site. That’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays a big part. What’s your budget.

This is something you need to establish at the very beginning. Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a campsite with any traffic revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re going to need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site.

That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Stefan Hanal of fin XP. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Terry Stephens. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry attorney Michael Fattorosi.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale that adult site broker we’re proud to offer for sale. One of the most famous affiliate programs in the adult industry, they’re a subscription based dating adult social network and Cam’s affiliate program with exclusive ownership of custom developed websites and offers in straight gay, hardcore and mainstream niches. They’ve been a prominent and sustainable affiliate program for 18 years. The company has weathered countless industry changes and regulations, and has always paid its affiliates well, and on time, this includes the entire affiliate database with historical performance data.

Plus the email list with 6.4 million active addresses, the technical platform has recently been rewritten and is modular based and built for scale. The entire system is hosted in the cloud, which allows for easy third party integrations, scalability, and cost optimization with a focus on billing optimization, traffic monetization, and risk mitigation. The business intelligence system and team have been designed to maximize lifetime value and build a sustainable and longterm stream of passive income.

There’s a full technical infrastructure, including billing load balancer, gateway, and call center tools with customer support and content moderation. This is a turnkey business that would allow anyone that is great at traffic acquisition to own the entire life cycle and lifetime value of the customer. It has the technical infrastructure, reputation, relationships, and systems and processes to massively scale revenue, all this for only 2.95 million us dollars.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and adult side broker talk is adult industry attorney Michael <inaudible> for our return visit. Michael, thanks for being with us again today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (3m 39s): Thanks for having me on again.

Speaker 1 (3m 40s): It’s my pleasure. Now the law offices of Michael w federal Rosie were established in 2002, Michael originally set up in LA and now lives in the Netherlands. He represents various types of clients and adult entertainment, depending on the issue. He can represent clients within all 50 states within the U S as well as in Canada, Europe, Australia, and the UK. Over 90% of his clients are companies and personalities in the adult industry. Michael’s also known on social media as porn law.

He’s been a licensed California attorney since 1997 and has been representing companies in the adult entertainment industry since 2003. He is a graduate of the American university in Washington, DC and Whittier law school in LA. Ray was a member of the law review. He’s been a seminar speaker, numerous adult industry events. Michael also has written articles for expos world and expos video adult store buyer magazine, and has been quoted on Fox news, CNBC TMZ, the Hollywood reporter Playboy magazine, the daily beast, the daily.adult site, broker talk, and other various media outlets.

He’s been interviewed and appeared on K TLA TV news in LA. And he’s been seen on reality TV shows my bare lady too on Fox reality, as well as the right hand and web dreams on HBO and showcase Canada lately. Michael’s branched out into the export business. He exports wine, pasta sauce, pasta olive oil, and marmalade to the U S and meets and hard cheeses in Europe. So Michael, last time we discussed your food and wine manufacturing and export business.

First, for those of our listeners who don’t know what you’re doing there, why don’t you tell them a little bit about it?

Speaker 2 (5m 27s): Well, I mean, I, you know, I moved here. I moved to Rotterdam and the Netherlands two years ago and I’m set up an export business to export various Italian, you know, specialties and wines directly to the United States out of Italy. And I’ve got my own pasta and pasta sauce and olive oil label. And I also import into the Netherlands for distribution into restaurants and to somewhat, you know, small private sales, but it’s mostly restaurants.

A lot of my products are carried by the largest Italian grocery store in Amsterdam. So if you have to go to Amsterdam, you can find my wine there right now. Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s not that I’m bored with the law, but it’s sort of like, you know, I’m 52 and God at 50, I decided that I was going to enter into the last phase of my life. And I wanted to do something in addition to being a lawyer, something that I could enjoy during, I don’t know if I’ll ever be retired, but, you know, as I kind of slow down my practice, if I can replace it with some other things, it would be interesting.

And so now the plan is in another year, I’m probably gonna move to Florence, Italy and get an apartment in the city and then maybe buy a country house outside Florence. That’s sort of the plan right now.

Speaker 1 (6m 56s): We’re going to have to visit you, man. That sounds great. I’m in, I I’m, I’m a, I’m inviting myself.

Speaker 2 (7m 2s): Well, if you’re in Italy, come by, you know,

Speaker 1 (7m 5s): We all, we want to go back. We went in September of 2019 up to the, the wine growing region in the north. And yeah, God, I can never think of that. Oh my God, what a week went thereafter, the Prague show and best vacation I’ve ever had. My first time in Italy, not my wife’s first time she had been there once before and God, I just, I just had such an amazing time.

Speaker 2 (7m 33s): Italy’s such an amazing place. It really is. If anybody, for those who are listening it, you know, it’s a lot like California. It really matches it’s about California in size. And it’s also like California climate. So in Northern Italy, the mountains, it’s cooler weather. You’ve got some wine growing like you do in California up in Napa. And then as you move further south, you get into more of the Mediterranean climate, the warmer weather, the beaches. And then when you get all the way down to the very end of the boot in an area called Pulia, you have a white Sandy beaches, like you would find in Greece on Mikan in those areas.

Yeah. Oh, it’s, that’s one of the hidden gems of Italy that nobody really knows about is the really Southern beaches. They’re just absolute. Absolutely beautiful.

Speaker 1 (8m 23s): I’ve heard of it first. I’ve heard of it. Well, as far as your one and one in food business, I mean, that’s a big passion of yours. Like it is of mine.

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): I mean, it’s something that I grew up with my father doing. So my father would make his own wine and we’d make his own pastas. We, you would actually make the dough and make pasta. And then he would also, he wouldn’t grow his own olives. We didn’t have like an olive orchard, but what he would do is whenever he made, he would start the sauce with a blend of olive oils and Bazell and oregano and black pepper, red pepper,

Speaker 1 (9m 4s): Garlic.

Speaker 2 (9m 7s): And that was sort of the base to his sauce. So what I did is I took that and I turned it into a dipping sauce within a bottle. People love it.

Speaker 1 (9m 15s): Okay. So, so Mike, next question is, when am I going to get some of this stuff out here in Thailand?

Speaker 2 (9m 24s): Yeah. I’ve never shipped to Asia. I have no idea. Even if I can ship to Asia, I have no idea how much it would cost me to ship to Asia. It’s it’s it is definitely expensive to ship this stuff. That’s sort of the downside of having it. Well, that’s a downside of having the business because, you know, people want the products, but when, when you factor in the cost of shipping, you know, they don’t want the products anymore. And that’s the problem. It’s almost, it’s a hundred dollars to ship a box to the United States.

How much? A hundred dollars. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (9m 58s): I know.

Speaker 2 (9m 59s): So when you add in the price on top of that, of the products, you know, you’re talking about a $200 purchase, so

Speaker 1 (10m 6s): Yeah, and, and here you got to add all the taxes in and the government error is absolutely criminal, which one isn’t, but this, this one more, this more, more than anything else. So I guess the business is going well,

Speaker 2 (10m 19s): You know, right now I’m trying to decide what I want to do with it because of the plan to move to Italy next summer, you know, do I want to continue it because I’m also thinking for a couple of years now, I wanted to get into the tour business in Italy and you know, with COVID I’ve not been able

Speaker 1 (10m 37s): To do that. I was going to ask you about,

Speaker 2 (10m 41s): Yeah, well, I was, I w I started this, I started the tour business in 2018. That was sort of like a launch, but then we didn’t really, we, we really didn’t launch it 2019, and then it was summertime. So we didn’t really get any bookings. So 2020 was going to be the year. And then of course, you know, and then 2021, we thought about it, then I was like, no, there’s probably not going to be enough. And now I’m trying to decide if 2022 is the year and, you know, with COVID, it’s so difficult for people to travel.

Like right now, I was supposed to have a friend come visit me in the Netherlands. And he had the backout because the Netherlands has imposed a 10 day quarantine on any Americans arriving, whether they’re vaccinated or not.

Speaker 1 (11m 26s): Any anybody that comes in here, it’s 15. We had to go through

Speaker 2 (11m 29s): It. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (11m 32s): And we we’re and we’re fully vaccinated.

Speaker 2 (11m 34s): Yeah. Yeah. That’s what, that’s what the Netherlands said. They don’t care if you’re vaccinated or not. You have to do a 10 day quarantine and two tests to get out of warranty. Yep. Yep. You can do one at five days and get out, or you can do one at 10 days and get out. So really hard to try to plan a,

Speaker 1 (11m 51s): Not a good time in the world now to be in any travel related business.

Speaker 2 (11m 58s): I don’t think that’s going to change. I don’t see either. I don’t see COVID going away.

Speaker 1 (12m 4s): No, I don’t either. I don’t either. I, I think COVID is going to be here for years. And, and then what about the next pandemic? And if you, if you read it epidemiologists and what they have to say, this is just the first and, and, and probably not the worst.

Speaker 2 (12m 24s): Well, I mean, it’s not, it’s not the first, not

Speaker 1 (12m 25s): The first, but first of first of a string and they think is what you’re saying.

Speaker 2 (12m 30s): I don’t think that’s going to happen. I hope not.

Speaker 1 (12m 32s): I hope no.

Speaker 2 (12m 34s): I mean, these things, it’s what the last one was a hundred years ago. So I mean, you know, out, if we’ll have another one in five years or 10 years or 20 years, it may be 50, 60, 70 years it’ll happen.

Speaker 1 (12m 46s): If certain parts of the world continue to have the kind of relationship that they have with animals and eating animals that shouldn’t be eaten. Okay. I’ll say China, then the next pandemic is not far off. And it’s just, it’s just, it’s inevitable.

Speaker 2 (13m 10s): No, I’m still not convinced that this came from an animal. I really think this came from a leak in a lab.

Speaker 1 (13m 16s): Sure. But, but it had to come from something originally. And, and, and so from a bad exactly. Exactly. Okay. Well,

Speaker 2 (13m 25s): This is true. This is just too perfect of a virus to come from the wild.

Speaker 1 (13m 29s): Yeah, I guess you’re right. I guess you’re right. So a lot’s obviously been happening on in our industry lately, MasterCard, once again, change the rules. So what’s your take on that?

Speaker 2 (13m 42s): Well, I mean, it’s not something where they’ve changed. The rules what’s happened. And this has been happening with billing companies for years is that, you know, we don’t have governmental regulation. We don’t have obscenity cases anymore. Really. We don’t have self-regulation. So almost the vast majority of regulation of content in the United States is being done by the credit card processors. It’s true. And you know, they they’ve done this for years now. I don’t know if you remember, years ago, there were, there were sites that specialized in sleeping or sites that, where they put girls under hypnosis.

And those were around for a little

Speaker 1 (14m 26s): While, like simulated rape.

Speaker 2 (14m 30s): It wasn’t really rape, but it was more a lack of consent. Right? It was more how

Speaker 1 (14m 37s): You are an attorney.

Speaker 2 (14m 39s): Well, listen, it’s that? Well, that’s the problem that the credit card company had. That’s why they didn’t call it rape content. They called it lack of consent content because the viewer couldn’t really determine that there was consent being made by the participants. And so the credit card company said, well, we’re just not going to bill for that. And then all of a sudden went away. Right. And so they, you know, they’ve been regulating content like this for years. So really think what MasterCard is doing is, you know, all that new, I think what MasterCard is doing for the first time is they’re basically imposing the 2257 rules.

They’re saying, you know, we’re just going to make sure that everybody file follows 2257 to some degree, you know, it’s not a perfect 22, 57, but they want to make sure that everybody has IDs, that everybody’s age is checked and that there is consent and that there are model releases. And so, you know, they’re there and that’s kind of the problem with the platforms. You know, what happened was as porn hub started and the tube sites started and they moved outside the United States and basically thumb their nose at the FBI.

But the FBI, you know, I was at a X conference years ago. It’s probably 13, 14, 15 years now. And we had an FBI agent and literally the FBI agent said, well, you know, if you’re overseas, we could come inspect you, but we probably won’t. And that was basically a green light for everybody to set up outside the United States. And because the platforms were set up outside the United States and the tube sites, they didn’t care about 2, 2, 5, 7, because they knew it would have never been enforced against them by the FBI or the department of justice.

Right. So everybody that came after that, you know, just said, oh, well, you know, we don’t need to do this because pornhub’s not doing it red. Tube’s not doing it. This company’s doing it that, so why should we do it? Yeah. And that’s what allowed all of this uploader, you know, user generated content to tube sites and to other sites to happen because nobody wants to give away or, you know, post their, their personal information to porn sites. They just don’t. And so now with what happened with PornHub, with the girls do porn and the allegations that there was a child abuse material found on their site, MasterCard just did the logical thing and said, well, you know what, we’re just not going to process for you unless you regulate yourself.

And, and then, and then nobody really regulated themselves. And then MasterCard, it goes, okay, well, since you won’t regulate yourself, here are the new regulations from us. And that’s where we are now. We’re one month away from regulation by MasterCard and part. And part of the problem too, is that we have content creators that are standing on the shoulders of giants. And they do not even realize it. They are out there creating content and, you know, luckily first amendment, but they don’t realize that people went to jail so they could have the right to make $30,000 a month of only fans.

And they don’t care about the law. They don’t, they don’t care. They don’t care about two today. They don’t even know what 2, 2, 5, 7 is. They don’t even know what a model releases half the times. And you know, they think, oh, well the platform, this is what I’m paying. My 20, 30, 40% cut to the platform is so the platform can take care of those issues for me and platform looks at it, like not our issue. We’re a secondary producer. You’ve got to keep the records. We don’t care. Right. And that’s where MasterCard steps in and goes, well, Nope, we’re going to change this whole thing up.

We’re going to make sure everybody has the records.

Speaker 1 (18m 26s): Well, in the final analysis, that’s not necessarily a bad thing

Speaker 2 (18m 30s): Either. I listen, it’s, you know, it, it will keep child abuse, material offline, you know, but if you talk to real free speech and I’m, I’m not a free speech guy, meaning that I believe in free speech, but I’m not a constitutional attorney. I’m not out there fighting these ivory tower lawsuits, but the free speech guys will go, well, this is, this will, you know, chill free speech because people won’t want to upload their content because they have to give away their IDs.

And, you know, and are they correct? Absolutely correct. Feel free speech, but it’s a balancing act, you know, and that’s what the courts do. They, they do this balancing act between the governmental interest and your right to speak freely. And right now, I think with the attacks that are happening on the industry with how some of the major websites and platforms have been acting, that that is tipping more towards, you know, the government has an interest in keeping kids off of the internet from being naked.

And it’s a very hard argument to make against that. Of course,

Speaker 1 (19m 35s): Of course, now that that leads us very well into the whole only fans fiasco. So we record here in September and they’ve eliminated adult content, and now they reinstated it. So was this, was this just a big publicity stunt? Or do you think performers need to find other options?

Speaker 2 (19m 56s): Oh, absolutely. You need to find other options. There’s no doubt about that. Now this, if this was a publicity stunt, only fan should fire their PR people because this, this was a ridiculous publicity stunt. I don’t know why they did it. You know, I wish I had an inside to only fans. I’ve got ideas, you know, maybe they used it as a way to renegotiate with their banks. You know, when, when the bank saw how, what the fee, what the pushback was, maybe they were able to go back to the banks and, and reduce their rates.

I don’t know, could be, or maybe they use it just to be able to continue to process. Maybe the bank said, well, you can’t have porn. And then they showed them the response and they were like, okay, fine. Keep the porn. Or, or maybe they’re going to quietly get rid of porn anyway. Yeah. I mean, they came out and made the announcement, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have other ways to slut to slowly close the porn accounts. Yeah. I mean, I’m sure only fans is looking at Reddit right now and licking their chops.

I don’t know if you saw Reddit is they’re trying to do an IPO and they’re trying to get an evaluation of the company for $15 billion. So, so, and, and Reddit is full of porn, but, and read, it’s going to get the IPO, even though it’s full of porn because it’s like Twitter, like, okay, there’s porn on there, but it’s not the majority of what the website is, you know? And I, and I think that’s what was only fans goal only fans goal was to get rid of a, a good amount of the pore and try to go more mainstream and then to do an IPO for billions and billions of dollars.

So whatever would have been lost from the revenue generated by adults, it would have been more than made up in the amount of money that the owners would have made off of an IPS.

Speaker 1 (21m 52s): Oh yeah. Definitely very well could be the case. So there seems to be a new fans or clips type sites starting up every week lately kind of reminds me of the days when cams really started to take off people are contacting my consulting business, wanting to start a clip and a fan sites. So can all these pop people possibly make it in this space?

Speaker 2 (22m 16s): No. None of them are going to make it in this space. None. None, no, no. I mean, th th this is what nobody understands about these sites and everybody thinks, oh, well, it’s easy money. Well, what they forget, what they forget is that the biggest, and I am the attorney for one of the biggest platforms out there right now, which is AVN stars. So I have, you know, I have a certain position that I was able to, to see this as it started with AVN stars.

And what people don’t understand is, is that it’s very easy to defraud these platforms because there are, you know, there are parties in Russia and Ukraine, other areas of the Eastern block, where they trade in illegal acts, illegally gotten credit card numbers. And what they’ll do is, you know, somebody will open up a performer account and then somebody will open up a fan account and then they’ll use the credit card to run 200, 300, 400, 500, a thousand dollars through the system.

And, you know, if, if the, if the owner of the credit card doesn’t really know that it’s stolen, they can get, you know, several hundred to maybe even a thousand, a thousand or more through the credit card processing. And then what immediately happens is, is that because the performers want to get paid out so frequently daily, daily. So the person who opens up the account, they just go ahead and, and, and take the money out and put it into a bank account.

Right? And so then they, then both the, the fan and both the performer close their accounts on that, on that platform. And then by the time the platform gets noticed that it was a charge back on a stolen credit card. It could be 30 or 60 days, and those people are long gone with the money. So the

Speaker 1 (24m 18s): Platform eats it.

Speaker 2 (24m 20s): And so the platform eats it how proud and so

Speaker 1 (24m 22s): Prevalent is this

Speaker 2 (24m 23s): Mic extremely, extremely prevalent. And that’s what people don’t understand is that in order to open up one of these platforms, you have to have a shit load of money sitting in reserves to deal with the fraud that you’re going to be hit with for the first several months or year or up to a year. Because what it requires you to do is have a very robust fraud department, right? You need to have people sitting on your site 24 hours a day, seven days a week, because you have to cover every single time zone in the world.

Right. And you need to be able to catch these accounts and stop them before they get a week before they open. So, you know, if you, if you have a situation where, you know, people can self certify their accounts and open them up without somebody checking it out, that’s a problem. And if you can have people who remove or can create the payment to their bank account, without it being approved, that’s a problem. Yeah. And so, you know, sites, all these sites that are coming forward, they, I doubt highly if they have the, the staff, the money, the investment, to have that type of, of robust customer service on the backend where, you know, they’ve got 10, 20, 30 people working 24 hours a day across several times zones that are checking every account that’s being made, because what’ll end up happening is that, you know, after a while, you’ll see patterns, you’ll see patterns in the way the fraud happens, and it will help fight the fraud.

You won’t, there will still be fraud, but you can bring down your monthly losses a lot. And, and, and these, and these sites work on such a low overhead.

Speaker 1 (26m 11s): I was going to say that again,

Speaker 2 (26m 13s): A low profit margin, because they’re only taking 20%. Some are only taking 10%. And it’s like one, some

Speaker 1 (26m 21s): Are doing a hundred percent promos now.

Speaker 2 (26m 24s): Yeah. And that’s just ridiculous. And that is just absolutely ridiculous because they’re getting hit, you know, they’re making no money, plus you’re getting hit with fraud. And they’re just doing that to try to stay afloat, you know, more so than anyone else. But yeah, in, in a year there could be a lot of money lost for fraud. Hmm. You know, and that’s what people who were opening up the sites and, and see, and that’s the thing too. That’s, that’s, that’s sad is that the performers, the content creators don’t realize this, you know, they’re, they’re going to go join up at whatever site that their friend says to go join up and they don’t do the homework.

Right. And they don’t talk to people. You know, this, to me, this was the same thing back, you know, 15 years ago when girls were flocking to Los Angeles to get into porn, they weren’t doing the homework on the agents. And a lot of them were coming up with bad agents. And then once they signed the contract, they were like, oh shit, I’m stuck. And they were calling me to get out. And I’m like, yeah, you got to call me before you sign the contract. Not after, you know, so the same thing’s gonna happen here is that a lot of performers, a lot of content creators are gonna sign up, but really bad platforms.

And they’re going to get fleeced, or they’re going to get defrauded and the platforms are going to go down and they’re going to waste all of that time, putting all of that effort into marketing that, that platform and that platform won’t exist in six months.

Speaker 1 (27m 49s): You know, you talked about the fraud patterns, you know, a person joins and then another, a model joins. And then that person’s feeding the model. You would think that, that those, those types of patterns could be pretty easily picked up by AI.

Speaker 2 (28m 7s): Yeah. But who’s got the money to spend on AI. Yeah. I guess, I guess. Yeah. I mean, listen, you know, I, I’ve got clients that use AI for, you know, child abuse material, right. And for other things, but AI, you know, from a programming standpoint is really expensive, you know, and even if you use a verification company, it’s somebody who wants to defraud you is going to get around anything that you put in the way.

And really the only way to stop the fraud is, would not be acceptable. The only way to stop the fraud would be to tell models. We’re not paying you out for 30 days because 30 days is usually enough time to know whether or not a credit card is going to be charged back because of fraud for some other reason. But nobody knew who, what models in a sign up, or what content creators going to sign up for a platform that says we’re not paying you for 30 days. None of them will.

Speaker 1 (29m 6s): Yeah. Because they’ve been spoiled by, you know, daily and every three days and every week payouts.

Speaker 2 (29m 12s): Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s the thing only fans is, is, is an 800 pound gorilla in the room. And, you know, they can afford to take on losses that other companies can’t even begin to fathom because they just generate so much cash. And that’s what people don’t like, oh, well, you know, only fans and all of these other companies are equal and they’re not the only fans is way above everybody.

Speaker 1 (29m 38s): Oh, of course. Of course. So these types of sites are the big thing. Now, now from your insight and the industry, what do you think the next big thing will be ZR? Really? Yep. I mean, to me, VR has kind of lagged, it kind of got started with the, with the bang. There’s a handful of sites that seem to be doing pretty well with it. But I don’t know. I mean, it doesn’t seem like anybody’s really lighting the world on fire.

Am I wrong about that?

Speaker 2 (30m 11s): Well, you’re going to see somebody like the world on fire pretty soon.

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): Oh, he knows if somebody, okay, well,

Speaker 2 (30m 18s): I’m, I’m part owner in a company that

Speaker 1 (30m 21s): Okay. Very good. Very good.

Speaker 2 (30m 24s): What we haven’t seen in adult is mainstream VR technology and augmented reality technology,

Speaker 1 (30m 33s): Right?

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): Yeah. So I mean, you know what we see as VR in adult really isn’t VR. It’s just a, a cool way of shooting some video to make it feel like you’re, you’re, you know, there, but when you, when you start talking about real VR and you’re talking about a motion capture,

Speaker 1 (30m 52s): What’s the difference between real VR and what most adult companies do

Speaker 2 (30m 56s): You ever watched Westworld? No. Nope. Okay. Well, have you ever looked at some really high end VR games? I have not. No. Sorry. It’s hard to describe because what, what you can do with mainstream VR and that level of technology is amazing compared to what is done in adult. Yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of times when people are shooting, an adult are just POV scenes with two cameras to give a sort of a binocular view of the, of the action.

Right. But when your VR is coded VR, it can’t be stolen. You know, it’s it survives on, on its own its own servers and it enhances, and it brings to life a level of interaction that you just can’t get with somebody shooting like a POV VR scene where yeah. You, instead of looking at it on a flat screen, you feel like the girls, but she’s, she still doesn’t feel like she’s there because there’s nothing else you’re doing with it.

And nobody’s

Speaker 1 (32m 2s): Yet nobody’s doing that an adult right now.

Speaker 2 (32m 4s): Not that I’m aware of, no,

Speaker 1 (32m 6s): The project you’re working on. Well, yep. Interesting. Got to keep me posted on that and why, why can’t it? Why can’t it be stolen?

Speaker 2 (32m 15s): That’s not a question for me, but what I’ve been told is that it’s not, it’s not like a video it’s, it’s, it’s not a situation where it’s a video that you upload to a website. It’s, it’s the ability of the headset to interact with the server.

Speaker 1 (32m 32s): Oh, okay. So we can, so it basically can’t be downloaded. It can only be strained. I

Speaker 2 (32m 37s): Think so. Yes.

Speaker 1 (32m 40s): I’m not the tech guy either. So if you, if you did, if you gave me the details, I’d probably go, huh. So there you go.

Speaker 2 (32m 49s): I’m not a part of the group for my tech skills. I’m part of the group from my legal skills.

Speaker 1 (32m 52s): I kind of figured as much. Well, when it’s, when it’s ready to, to try out I’m I definitely want to be among the first sounds exciting.

Speaker 2 (33m 4s): It really is exciting. Like it’s, it’s, I’ve been working with them for six, seven years now and I’ve watched their technology just explode. And so, you know, it’s, it’s going to be something that the adult industry has never seen before. Whether, you know, it comes down to whether or not people have headsets and everything that I’ve read, everything that I’ve seen over the next, you know, 3, 4, 5, 6 years, there’ll be more reasons to have a headset and that’ll be able to make it more accessible for more people.

Speaker 1 (33m 41s): Walt, the point of entry be pretty high as far as the equipment to shoot.

Speaker 2 (33m 45s): I don’t think so. I think it will be in the terms of, you know, three, $400.

Speaker 1 (33m 50s): And in terms of shooting

Speaker 2 (33m 51s): It, oh, you shooting it. I thought you meant the headset for the fans as far as shooting. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t know what that would be.

Speaker 1 (33m 57s): Yeah. How long until it’s going to be available that

Speaker 2 (34m 0s): I don’t know either.

Speaker 1 (34m 2s): Okay. Okay. I won’t, I won’t ask any more questions. You definitely got my attention. So now Mike, this, this industry’s always been under attack. Okay. But it seems like the attacks are coming more frequently and even heavier than before. Does it seem that way to you? Or is it more of the same?

Speaker 2 (34m 21s): Oh, it seems more. Okay. It’s always been under attack. Like you said, it depends where the facts are coming from. You know, everybody likes to use porn to raise money aids, healthcare foundation did it a couple of years ago with the condoms in porn stuff. And you know, they were low raise money from that. And now we’ve gotten a cozy and Exodus cry. If you go look at the tax filings for, for the cozy national center of sexual exploitation, I think is what it stands for.

If you go look at the tax filings, you know, every year for the last four years, since they’ve been really attacking the adult industry, you know, their, their contributions that they’ve taken in have doubled the triple, right. So we mean, you know, it’s, it’s a good football for them to kick because it brings in more donations. And then those donations are funneled to attorneys who drive the litigation against the industry, which, you know, just makes more donations come in. So it’s, it’s good business for them.

Speaker 1 (35m 24s): Non-profit my buck.

Speaker 2 (35m 25s): Well, they’re not, I mean, yeah, their profit. I mean, they’re there, I think on staff attorney makes 175,000 a year, their direct, or maybe their director makes 175,000. I’m not, you know, I looked at it, but I can’t, I didn’t remember. I

Speaker 1 (35m 40s): Didn’t remember, but

Speaker 2 (35m 41s): Yeah, but, but overall, you know, this is, this is a reiteration of morality in media and they’d been around since 1962. They’re, they’re not new. It’s not like they just popped up. I don’t know where they just renamed themselves. And so, and they used to try to get the government. They used to lobby the government to attack porn and then the government just has no interest in attacking porn anymore. And so they decided to do it themselves through these, you know, sex trafficking litigation cases that they filed.

I think they’re up to three, four, maybe five even, which was ludicrous. Yeah. And you know, what’s sad about it is that the FSC is not really providing any, any assistance with that. I represented, I represented a small company in one of their litigations and you know, the F the FSC silent on this. And I wonder why, because I don’t think it’s good publicity for them. That’s why

Speaker 1 (36m 41s): They don’t want to pick a sex trafficking as mentioned. Yup.

Speaker 2 (36m 44s): Yup. You know, and that’s, it’s, it’s not w when FSC was formed many, many years ago, the idea was so the companies could join together, donate and create a legal defense fund. Right. And FSC has moved so far away from that. It’s ridiculous. And now they don’t provide any legal defense fund. And, you know, I’m not sure why people still join the FSC, but they do, but the agency’s not helping out small companies or even medium-sized companies with defense of these cases.


Speaker 1 (37m 15s): Okay. Very interesting. Now I see sex workers are now fighting back with some bank protest. D D do you see this doing any good or is it going to backfire?

Speaker 2 (37m 28s): Well, I don’t know. It’s not going to do any good. I don’t know. I mean, you know, it’s like sitting at a picnic and an ant crawling across your toe, or you going to like, you know, stop down on the end or are you just going to let it crawl across your toe and leave? You know, if they become annoying enough, then yeah. It can cause problems with the banking, with the processors and the banks. It’s the last thing that we need in the industry. But, you know, I, and I set it on, on X biz.net. I said, you know, the banking industry could turn off adult tomorrow and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

And there’s this idea in porn that, oh, they need us. No, they don’t American express American express left 21 years ago and never looked back.

Speaker 1 (38m 14s): They seem to be doing

Speaker 2 (38m 15s): Pretty well. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, you know, the, the amount of e-commerce that happens a daily basis, you know, they wouldn’t even probably notice that adult was gone.

Speaker 1 (38m 31s): I mean, adult adult used to be the big dog, but that’s not the case anymore.

Speaker 2 (38m 35s): No, no, no. I mean, who in adult is sending rockets to Mars?

Speaker 1 (38m 43s): I don’t know. Alec hell Alec Helmy maybe, I don’t

Speaker 2 (38m 45s): Know. There isn’t anybody rich enough in porn to build a spaceship. We’re not dogs. Amazon’s a big dog. I mean, you know, or maybe 20 years ago, porn was important to billing, but not anymore. Right.

Speaker 1 (39m 4s): All right. So this is something I have a little bit of trouble understanding. Maybe you have a better take on it. NFT seemed to be all the rage now, and they, they seem to be gaining steam in an adult. Is this a trend that you think is going to continue? Or is it a flash in the pan?

Speaker 2 (39m 23s): I don’t know. I’m kind of clueless when it comes to crypto and MTS. Yeah. I’ve got a client that’s got a token in, in, you know, problem with NFTs is that, you know, it has to be something special I think. And it has to have, and it has to have a blockchain attached to it. Right. And I don’t know how many NFTs and porn have blockchains attached to it because without the blockchain, then you don’t have ownership rights. Right. And so, you know, there’s another thing I heard about been finance, but that’s not really blockchain.

So I actually just, I, I don’t want to call them a client yet, but there’s a, a crypto coin that just approached me to help represent them in the adult industry, because they want to do crypto with an adult and they want to do the NFTs. And so, you know, I had to put them in touch with somebody that I know because he knows blockchain and he knows the adult and he knows crypto. So we just had discussion about it. But, you know, it’s, there’s, there’s what, less than 1%, maybe, maybe there’s 1%, maybe 2% of all transactions and adult have to do with crypto.

So, I mean, you know, if in, in, until it reaches mass acceptance, it’s, it’s just a novelty in adult.

Speaker 1 (40m 44s): Certainly go up if the credit card companies dump us.

Speaker 2 (40m 48s): Well, I know, because even then, I don’t know if it’ll go up because you can buy crypto with credit cards. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. So, I mean, you know, it’s, and I, I don’t think the credit card companies are gonna dump us. I don’t think, I don’t think, I think the credit card companies will be dumping sites. I think that will happen. Think, you know, after these rays go into effect, whether it takes two months, six months, a year, there will be spot checks on companies by the, the banks and the processors.

Yep. And if those companies don’t have the documents in order, the way MasterCard wants, then I, and if it’s agregious enough, I think that they’re just going to have their building shut off. Just like what happens to corn hub? You know, if you’re missing. Oh, no. Oh no. I think, I think depending on how egregious it is, they just pull the billing period.

Speaker 1 (41m 47s): Well, they did, but they reinstated it.

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): MasterCard didn’t reinstate it for PornHub. They didn’t, I don’t think so. No. They reinstated for browsers and things like that.

Speaker 1 (41m 57s): Oh, I thought they, I thought they got reinstated. I thought I saw, I read an article about that. So, so these, so these crypto clients, are they paying you in crypto Inquiring minds need to know? So

Speaker 2 (42m 11s): I, I do not accept crypto for payments.

Speaker 1 (42m 15s): Okay. Everyone, you got that. So with performers having more control over their content these days, do you think there’s still a future for membership sites?

Speaker 2 (42m 28s): I think so. Yeah. It’s tough because my heart is always in membership sites because some of my, you know, my earliest clients and still my friends, Mike, you know, certain clients that I have run those sites, have those sites platforms have created a different customer. And, and what happens is when this all comes crashing down, because it’s going to come crashing down. When, when guys start to realize that they’re not talking to their favorite porn star, when they realize that, you know, you know, Susie big tits, isn’t awake at 4:00 AM discussing your problems.

And you’re, you know, probably tipping either somebody in her family, her boyfriend, her husband, or maybe you’re, you’re tipping in a customer service rep working out of a call center. Right. You know, when, when guys start to realize yeah. When guys realized that. No worries. Okay. Can you hear that? I can, yeah. That’s our air raid sirens.

Speaker 1 (43m 35s): Do you need to go?

Speaker 2 (43m 38s): Well, it’s amazing because here in Rotterdam, you know, the reason why Rotterdam’s all new and it doesn’t look like Amsterdam is because the Nazis burnt it to the ground with a firebomb campaign. Lovely. And the, the, our Dammers never forgot that. And they still do these, you know, air rate tests once a month. I just happen to be,

Speaker 1 (43m 60s): I think it’s, I think it’s charming. No, go ahead. Go ahead with what you were saying.

Speaker 2 (44m 5s): And so what was I saying? Where was I?

Speaker 1 (44m 11s): We were talking about membership sites and still a place for membership sites and Susie big tits talking to a customer service rep somewhere.

Speaker 2 (44m 19s): Yeah. When, when these guys realize that they’re not talking to your favorite porn star, what are they going to do? Are

Speaker 1 (44m 24s): They going to realize, do you think they’re really going to realize that

Speaker 2 (44m 26s): I do. They have to, at some point they, you know, someone’s going to do a story about it. There’s going to be some angry call center person who gets fired and they’re going to call daily beast or one of these other ones. And, you know, like I pretended to be Susie big tits for four months online. And none of the guys knew, I think that’s, what’s going to happen. And I think someone, you know, a disgruntled employee is going to do it.

And then when people realize that, you know, when they realize that their favorite porn star, isn’t sitting around at two o’clock in the morning, four o’clock in the morning talking to them, no, no, don’t get me wrong. There are some that do, there are definitely some that do. Yeah. You know, I know my ex used to, you know, spend a tremendous amount of time talking to her fans. And so there are still a lot of, a lot of performers, content, creators that are honest with their members and they are on there and they are speaking with them, but there are a tremendous amount that are not right.

And so when that happens, I think it all comes crashing down. And now the tube sites are kind of, you know, neutered because of the MasterCard situation. And when people realize that all of these fan sites are, you know, basically, you know what I think you and I are old enough to remember are the pictures of really hot girls on phone sex lines. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (45m 56s): Well, wait, wait, are you telling me that wasn’t her.

Speaker 2 (46m 0s): Exactly, exactly. And so, and so guys we’re like, okay, well I know she’s not the girl in the picture, but she’s got a sexy voice, so it’s okay. There you go. And I think guys were okay with that because whoever did the phone sex, you know, they could count on it, at least being a woman. Right. Okay. And they could count on that woman having a sexy voice and, and they could, you know, suspend their disbelief that this was not the war. This was the woman in the picture. Right. But when it comes to stuff like only fans were, a lot of the messaging is through texts.

You could be talking to a guy, right. You could be talking to the boyfriend, you could be talking to that. You can be talking to a gay guy. If you a dude,

Speaker 1 (46m 40s): You and I both know a very large companies that do a, what do they call it? Moderation for dating sites. And I’m sure they’re doing it for these types of sites.

Speaker 2 (46m 55s): Yeah. And the problem with it is, is that the FTC, when after the dating sites and find a bunch of them, I’m waiting for the FTC to go after these types of sites. I’m sure it won’t be long. Well, and that’s the, and that’s the thing though, but do the sites know what’s going on?

Speaker 1 (47m 10s): Yeah. But do the sites, do the sites care if they get slapped on the wrist by the FTC? I mean, do you think they stopped doing it at that point?

Speaker 2 (47m 19s): I, you know, I’m not an FTC lawyer, so I don’t know what level the fines are. I’ve seen, I’ve seen FTC sites, Sue dating companies. And when for millions, you know, I don’t know if that would go up to tens of millions or hundreds of millions on something like an only fans thing. But yeah. I mean, if it’s a few million dollars only fans makes that in the morning before noon. Right. So it probably wouldn’t be a deterrent, but I think what would end up happening is like I said, guys would go, well, I can’t trust this, you know?

Or, or, you know what, maybe they’re just so desperate that they do. I mean, I, I literally just had a fan contact me and asked me if I knew a certain porn star. And I said, why? And he said, well, because she, you know, she’s trying to get out of porn, but she owes somebody $20,000 or $10,000. I forgot how much. And she’s in love with him and she wants to come join him, you know? But she, she needs this money to pay off her pimp.

And until he gets paid off, she’s in part of sexual servitude. And it’s like,

Speaker 1 (48m 28s): It sounds like the bar girls in Petaja The lesser amounts of money, of course.

Speaker 2 (48m 36s): And, and, and he showed, and he told me who it was, and I know who the porn star is. And I know that’s not the case. And then I said, how do you know it’s her? And so he showed me a picture of her passport. I don’t, I don’t know what her real name is. So I couldn’t tell if the real name is fake, but I can tell you that it looks real. It absolutely looks real. It looks real to the point of where, whoever Photoshop the picture, except they used one of her porn pictures for the picture for the past.

Speaker 1 (49m 6s): Oh

Speaker 2 (49m 7s): No. She’s like got all makeup done and everything. And I’m like,

Speaker 1 (49m 11s): So this is probably like a Nigerian scammer,

Speaker 2 (49m 13s): Right? Yeah, exactly. So now he’s like, when you ask her and I’m like, yeah, I’ll ask her, but I can guarantee you that that’s not her don’t send any money. And so, yeah. There’s, you know, there are, and I, I, there’s a bunch of only fans, content creators that I represent who have these, these accounts that are out there scamming guys. Right. And, and guys believe it. I mean, guys, believe it. And so that’s the sad part. Guys are dumb.

They’re just dumb.

Speaker 1 (49m 45s): Yes. Yes we are. We were born that way. Unless, unless you’ve been an adult, as long as we have, then you get a little more streetwise.

Speaker 2 (49m 58s): Well, we call it the pink cloud. Did anybody ever tell you that? No.

Speaker 1 (50m 4s): I haven’t

Speaker 2 (50m 4s): Heard that when I first got into porn, I dunno. It was 18 years ago. I remember I started dating a girl after my first marriage ended and I was crazy about her. And I presented one of the agents in the industry at the time. And he came up to me. He’s like, dude, don’t get lost in the pink cloud is what he’s like. Yep. This is what happens. When, you know, you start dating porn stars and you start, you start dating sex workers. You get into this pink cloud mentality where like, you’re just, you’re just in a fog.

And he was right. I was in a total fog. So I can see how these guys get into these pink clouds, where, you know, they believe that this porn star or this content creator, or this performer needs the money to save them from this guy that, you know, owns them

Speaker 1 (50m 54s): Or their, or their mother needs and needs an operation or whatever. Well, Michael it’s really been a blast as always. And I, once again, I hope we, we get a chance to do part three soon. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today, once again on adult Cyprus.

Speaker 2 (51m 14s): Thank you, Bruce. Thank you for having me back. Let me know when you want me for number three, you got it.

Speaker 1 (51m 18s): My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit will be a multiple of the profit. And that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time.

If the profit is taking a nosedive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and review traffic are the most valuable to traffic is the least valuable. Is the traffic reliable and sustainable? What is the traffic history? In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue.

The same factors apply to that as to profit and the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website? Is the domain a.com or something else? Dot com is still king. What is its Alexa rating? How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build a site from scratch and drive the same amount and quality of traffic to it.

And how much time would be involved? What’s the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week, how to buy a website. And next week we’ll be speaking with Maverick, UK producer, Terry Stephens. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Michael Fattorosi. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Zak. Ozbourne.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to the German and Italian languages. Google has placed the website in good search positions.

There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic only $595,000. Now time for this week’s interview.

My guest today and adult side broker talk is Zach Osborn of exclusive.life. And let me spell that. It’s E X, C L U S v.life. Zach, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, my pleasure. Pleasure’s all mine. Now, Zach is a programmer web developer and photographer in Northern Australia who has been working in the adult industry for over 10 years. He started as a local event photographer doing casual booed wash shoots for friends and acquaintances.

This transformed into shooting for an adult website in Australia, then creating his own adult website and finally pivoting to support adult content creators who were struggling with monetizing their social media, which is where exclusive.life was born. So, yeah, you know, an obvious first question is you talk about creators struggling with this whole only fans thing. And we’re, we’re recording just a few days after the announcement, maybe a week after the announcement.

What impact do you see that having on your business?

Speaker 2 (3m 50s): Oh, I was, I prepared for this question verse, huh? Well, at the moment, I’m an advocate for a more critical reading of whatever the internet has been throwing at us. In this regard, you see a lot of models and sex workers and their unions. They’re definitely not doing enough research into it. Highly fans has changed their policies and it’s likely due to stakeholders decisions, right? It’s from what I understand has nothing to do with MasterCard pulling out or anything like that. Right.

So there is speculation of every possible, every possible kind being thrown around. And we definitely all need to calm down and have a look at this critically rather than emotionally. Sure. I’m not here to throw shade on anybody, but yeah, it’s, it’s much like the pandemic it’s uncertain times.

Speaker 1 (4m 41s): Yeah. Yeah. Most definitely. So tell me more about what exactly is exclusive.life.

Speaker 2 (4m 49s): Exclusive. Life is a premium social media platform, I guess, is the best way to put it. It gives content creators the best chance I’ll get a chance to monetize their content. We support a large range of content creators, such as models, photographers, musicians, artists, writers, vloggers. If you can create it, you can put it on exclusive life. Hmm.

Speaker 1 (5m 14s): So how did it all begin?

Speaker 2 (5m 16s): Well, I want to go now 2011, probably close to 10 years. I started shooting content and recruiting talent for a small Australian website here called Ozzy amateurs. And I worked, I, I mostly hide like backpackers and traveling, traveling models and stuff like that. And I would do the photography work and edited it at a discounted rate if I was able to use the content myself.

So I had my license for myself as well. Sure. After a little while I was shooting, I started my own website, Queensland girls in early 2012. I kept, I kept doing some photo shoots and video for Ozzy amateurs. And at the time I was also running my own small web development company, building websites for local local businesses and whatnot. So managing a website, wasn’t not outside of my skillset. Things kept getting busier and busier.

And I was shooting three to five times a week, mainly yeah. Shooting mainly in outside private outdoor locations. But here where I am, we sort of have two seasons wet or dry. So I was like this place. So when it was a bit uncertain, whether friends or people I know would lend me their living room or their bathroom or something like that, that looked a bit nice to give a bit more of a nice backdrop.

And then after that, we just, it sort of just kept growing through chance. I actually then became a caretaker of a brothel. A friend, a friend of a friend was the president of a small investment company. And that, that investment company owned the building of the brothel. So they rented it out to brothel license holders and the lease had just ended and there was no interest in anybody picking it up again.

So through like a quick little meeting and stuff like that and the connections they gave me the keys and said use it however you like, but just, just look off to the, yeah, look, look out for the yard and the gardens, keep it clean and keep it ready for the next tenant. Whenever they, whenever that comes this brothel, it was way over the top for what I was doing at the time. It had like a reception booth office staff room, staff bathrooms, big lounge area, car park, and then it had its five service rooms.

And like they all had their own themes, like Arabian room, French Oriental safari, and like a BDSM bondage type room called the forbidden room. Most, most of the decor was taken out with it, along with the tenants, but there was still some stuff left behind, which served as really good inspiration for future photo shoots that we were doing at the time. And then, oh yeah, I worked out of the brothel for about 18 months before the lease got picked up again.

So who knows how long they invest guys lost money out one, but will gain from me. But it was, it was such a great place to have, I would always have any meetings, business related photography related to have meetings at this brothel. And so it was like this huge, big building just for myself, we’d have parties sort of like end of end of financial year parties, Christmas parties, all that sort of stuff. Even a local swinger’s group contacted me and asked if they could have a, one of their annual parties there, which, which they did then the, the investor type people they said to me, you know, you, you can, you can rent it out to them.

Yes. But you have to be there. And anything that happens is on you. And it’s like, whoa, okay. I can do a swing as potty. Okay. But we had, we had a bit of a, we had some wild times there. I bet you too. And then yeah, I, I, I’ve moved, started to coding out pay sites for models and other photographers who wanted to get into the online industry, helping them get set up with villas and initial content uploaded. I worked with a lot of up and coming models at the time, a lot of Australian, Australian content, creators, Kiki, Sue Cray, Monty Luxe, Bonnie tonic, some of which I have, I’ve been, I’m still really good friends with.


Speaker 1 (9m 48s): How did those, those types of relationships help you to move forward?

Speaker 2 (9m 52s): Well, a large, a large portion of the girls I worked with were also sex workers, like models, strippers escorts, all the, the, the usual fanfare often I’d get called from, from these girls saying, Hey, Zach, I’m in town. And you know, I’ve got a job on or you know, that sort of stuff. So I’d offer him to come stay at my house and I’d drive them to, and from their jobs and offer them a good home cooked meal.

Cause I know when you’re traveling, you know, like these girls, they tend to just eat fast food and whatnot. But yeah. And in, in a downtime we’d arranged photo-shoots and it was just around the house or wherever, wherever suits. One time, speaking of photo shoots, one time Kiki sukra was visiting. And in between jobs, she wanted to, we wanted to make some chocolate cake. So we decided let’s turn the baking of this cake into a photo-shoot Kiki’s vagan and not a baker.

Neither am I walking around the grocery store on our phones, trying to look up like the best vegan chocolate cake recipe so we can try and actually make a cake for this photo shoot. And in the end, yeah. The cake turned out pretty good, but the photos were a lot better than the cake. Now I still work with and keep in contact with a lot of girls. And if I’m traveling in their area, I let them know. Or they, they know just through general conversation, they usually invite me over to their house for dinner and drinks.

So we go out somewhere and just have a good catch-up. Sure. And it’s pretty good. It’s really nice.

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): So you recruited talent, you produced content, you built your own site, you made sites for other people. You looked after a brothel, which I think is awesome. So what happened now?

Speaker 2 (11m 42s): Yeah. So 2016, I noticed a trend where the girls, just the models. I think they just didn’t want to have to rely on like myself as a photographer or other photographers to create the content. And at the time 2016, mobile phones were starting to come into their own and, and digital cameras was entry-level digital cameras were quite quite good. So this whole self shot content was definitely a strong alternative for producing content, but there was also another sort of trend happening at the same time models in the newly named content creators didn’t want, they didn’t want to wait for that website to be made because as you know, websites can take a while to build code, you know, tests, all that sort of stuff and build up the content.

Yeah. And they didn’t want to have to go through the hassle of uploading content, to the website, writing posts and all that sort of stuff. They wanted to just deliver their content straight to the hands of their consumers, their, their fans. And this was sort of the beginning of the premium Snapchat revolution. You could call it, you know, premium Snapchat, if you’d not familiar, it’s where creators charge, access to a private Snapchat story.

And then they can, you know, you make a payment, they, they add you and you get to see this private story. And so some of these, like a lot of the girls I’d worked with already in this premium Snapchat sort of situation. And so I asked them, I said, how can we improve this? Like, this seems extremely clunky from a program perspective and even a, a consumer’s perspective. Sure. And so they talked back and forth about it and you know, one of the problems they had was when do we remove someone from our story?

Like, you know, are we $30 lifetime subscription? And I went, wait, where do we stand on that? And then another friend, she said that she had $5,000 take frozen in her PayPal account because at the time this was against PayPal’s terms and conditions as it still is. Yes. Sure. So I, I, I sat there and I took some notes and I thought this could be, we can do this better. And by mid 2016, I launched what I think no one’s corrected me yet. The first premium Snapchat notification system called sexy snaps.

So it provided the creators, the ability to set up recurring subscriptions. There was a small little spot there to upload some previews and member and the content. So people had something to look at while they were waiting to be added because you still had to be manually added to Snapchat and removed from Snapchat, you know? So there was still that manual time, the waiting the, so you had to Sue the instant gratification. Yeah. And it was all through like a safe adult payment gateway and it all got dispersed correctly and sort of, you know, no chance of any payment accounts being locked or anything like that.

And yeah. So sexy snaps took off in the first 12 months, we did $150,000 in sales, which wow. Yeah. It was kind of a big deal for, for me, that was the first time that something of mine had taken off seriously. Yeah. So obviously with that, I’d paid the girls, their share of that 150, but of course, yeah. And we just had a steady, steady flow of creative signing up using the platform and promoting it.

Some girls were even taking their payout statements, just straight into car dealerships and, and that sort of stuff. And just saying, Hey, look, I’m, I’m earning this much money and they’re getting fully fledged car loans or like brand new car loans based on the income of sexy snaps. Got all of it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15m 49s): So now how did you go from sexy snaps to exclude

Speaker 2 (15m 53s): Got life? I had made sexy snaps in a way where it was a hundred percent cloud-based I could approve new applications. I could set profiles up. I could manage payouts, all that sort of stuff from anywhere in the world, as long as I had my laptop and the internet. So that gave me a bit, a lot of freedom. I’ve traveled quite a lot. And in 2018, I think it was it’s all a bit blurring now. Long time ago, I was, had just finished traveling through Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, and then I was in Thailand.

Oh yes. And I, yes, I had done a day’s worth of touristing and I was on the train back from, what do you call it out west there Kenshin burry. Okay. And I was on the train and I thought, oh, just flick the old Snapchat map location on. So I could make all my friends a bit jealous about where I am and that sort of thing. And the train, you know, in a city. It’s not that interesting looking out the window.

Speaker 1 (17m 0s): I know my wife’s a bit on it. I have, and I won’t touch those or trust those damn things.

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): The real, the real rod is from the overnight train from Chiang Mai to Bangkok. That’s the real raw. I’m

Speaker 1 (17m 14s): Gonna take your word for that.

Speaker 2 (17m 18s): And yeah, shortly after I posted some photos, I got a message from apple, a Thailand based content creator that’s on, that was on sexist snaps at the time. And after a bit of back and forth, she she’s like, oh my God, you, you in Thailand. I said, yeah, I am. And she said, oh, may, may yet make me after, after, after work at seven o’clock for some drinks, I said, oh, that sounds pretty fun. I’d be shopping around Thailand. Excuse me, a bank, Bangkok by a local, you know, not many people get that opportunity.

She’s like meet me at the Hooters bar in Bangkok. And I’m like, okay.

Speaker 1 (17m 55s): Right. I know exactly where that is. Right in. Right in soy, Nana.

Speaker 2 (18m 2s): Yup. So 7:00 PM rolled around and I was sitting just on the veranda, watching the traffic go by

Speaker 1 (18m 9s): Know, I know exactly where that is too, because there was a bar, there was a bar that used to be there before, right outside the, you know what the, hell’s the name of that crap hotel at sin and went to the Nana hotel. Yeah. And I used to sit, I used to sit on that balcony and watch the world go by, translate it, all the beautiful girls go by

Speaker 2 (18m 33s): All the beautiful girls and boys.

Speaker 1 (18m 35s): Yeah. Well them to,

Speaker 2 (18m 40s): But yeah, so she, she made a separate o’clock. She messaged me and she said, I’m on I’m on my way down. Order me a large point of Asahi. I was like, okay, sure. So I got myself one and she got one too. Yeah. So within 10 minutes, she was there at his tiny little Thai girl, apple that I’d been talking with for years almost. She’d been on the platform for 18 months, two years. And she just grabbed this pint and she just chugged it just completely just demolished this pint of Asahi, I thought, wow.

And then she’s just so excited. It’s full of energies. Where do you want to go? What do you want to do? And I said, oh, I’m a little bit hungry. Cause I hadn’t eaten anything. Since, since lunch, I’m sort of quite hungry. She’s she goes, what, what? Wait. And I’m like, I dunno, it’s this is your town. You show me, you show me. She’s like, okay, I know the spot. So

Speaker 1 (19m 33s): Sushi place across the street, by the way. But anyway, go ahead

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): Through all these little, these little streets and there’s traffic, it’s just chaos. Nothing like I’ve experienced before. Really. And she took me to the, one of the, these, this weird little restaurant, like a Japanese style restaurant where, you know, you sit down and cook your own food and excuse me. And

Speaker 1 (19m 59s): Yeah. I, I, yeah, I know. I think I, I think I might know the place to,

Speaker 2 (20m 5s): Oh, the restaurant. It was just so busy and that they set up, sat us down in the back and you know, she’s asked me, she’s like, what do you want to eat? And I’m like, oh, whatever, whatever you want. You know, I said, I’ll, I’ll shout. I’ll, I’ll buy this one. And I, cause I couldn’t read the menu. It was just all in funny, funny, can’t read squiggles, you know,

Speaker 1 (20m 26s): I have that trouble

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): Anyway. So she confirms with me like, do you eat this? Do you eat that? And I was like, yeah, no, definitely not that. And I said, just go ahead. And she ordered like what felt like a hundred things. And I was like, wow, we gonna, we gonna eat all this food anyway. So we were drinking and talking and having such a great time that when the food finally came out, we didn’t want to cook our own food. We, she just asked the waitress in Thai, do you mind cooking, cooking some of it for us.

So we had this, we were taught in a cook your own food place, but then we had someone cooking it for us. So during head catch up at catch-up, we’d just talking about our life, my life, her life, how we got to where we are. And she started telling me about her experiences using sexy snaps now, because it was all run through Snapchat. There was zero moderation from my side. I had no idea what was going on. I was just taking payments and dispersing the payments sort of thing. I had no idea. Sure.

Nothing about the interactions at all. And so she told me she’s like, people are really mean like they sign up based on her previews and then that’s not what the previews are. And you know, she’s just, she’s like, they really mean, and I handled all the complaints from both, both sides, the creators and the members, if any member came to me and said, oh, you know, I was blocked by such and such. I would have to go to someone to that creator and say, why did you block this person? And back then as a bit of a back and forth, he said, she said thing.

But usually most of the time the creators could provide me screenshots of what this person was saying. And if it was bullying or harassment of any type, I was just like, no, you’re done to the member. You’re like, you know, no one deserves to be treated like that. I agree. She asked me, he’s like, is there a better way to be able to report these members and you know, sort of combat this negative experience a little bit more. And I was like, fuck, but funny enough, most of the bullies were people who signed up via promo codes or really, really low specials, the cheap Charlie.

So perhaps that maybe they just signed up just to ruin someone’s day. But yeah, apple continued. She mentioned that she’s going to stay with her friends, friends, and family for a couple of weeks. And she wanted to be able to keep providing content for, for her fans and members. And this was before you could upload saved snaps to Snapchat before you could upload safe snaps. And so I asked her what would be ideal. And so I, Jimmy rigged up a, a way for her to upload some of her previous content into her members area.

So that was, that was kinda cool. But then she said like, well, could there be more could, can we comment? Can we like, you know, all that sort of business, we know we’ve gone this big circle. They don’t want the girls, the content creators don’t want to wait for photographers. They don’t want to have to manage their own pay site. They want to do it all through an app. Now they all want to do it through an app, but also upload stuff that they shot with their phone. We’ve almost gone full circle again. Right. And so it’s not something I had got the wheels turning and there’s something has to be done to accommodate for all of this, all this at the same time.

So once I returned home from this trip, I started drawing up plans and arts and getting ready for 60 snaps, 2.0, I, I named it. But I knew that a project of this size, especially with a social media style backend, I couldn’t do it alone. Especially if I was going to code it from the beginning and have buy nothing off the shelf, a hundred percent custom sort of thing. Right. So, so I teamed up with a fellow programmer in New Zealand.

He’s well-known he was well-known at the time for his reverse engineering escapades on various well-known APIs. And yeah, we, we got in and we started planning sexy snaps, 2.0 or as we call it today, exclusive life.

Speaker 1 (24m 39s): That’s cool. Now, where is sexy snaps now?

Speaker 2 (24m 44s): Sexy snaps after a, a relatively painless painless in quotations migration of the existing, sexy snaps creators. We just, the sexy stamps dot Emmy domain, just points to a, not safe for work landing page for exclusive life, just to re help with any, any further onboarding, if any of our links are still active out there in the wild. Okay. And I actually looked, I was actually following this up earlier this week.

I think that that, that link, that particular redirect has had over 130 unique redirects, 130,000. It should say

Speaker 1 (25m 26s): I was going to say 130 wouldn’t impress me too much.

Speaker 2 (25m 30s): 130,000. Yeah. Redirects.

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): Excellent. Excellent. So how is exclusive life different from sexy snaps,

Speaker 2 (25m 38s): Different to sexy stamps? Well, exclusive life was made with more of the creators needs. In mind. We worked with the creators of sexy snaps, finding out what they wanted and what sexy snaps and other platforms at the time were missing. One of the recurring things and themes was that they wanted it to be faster, faster, set up times, you know, faster, easier to apply, get approved, you know, just get set up and start making money. They wanted it, you know, bang, bang, bang now.

And yeah, now you can say exclusive life, you can upload content people, your fans and followers can like comment, follow all that sort of business. There’s a lot more tools exclusive life also now has stifled in many different time zones. So applications, payout, support requests, content moderation, all happens with very, very little wait times. Yeah. Every, every post is viewed and moderated pretty quickly after it’s uploaded.

And this is showing us that no content, no content, uploaded comments, et cetera, breaking our community guidelines. And we want to try and keep explosive life as safe and friendly as possible, I guess. Sure.

Speaker 1 (26m 56s): Okay. So how do you handle the money to pay out

Speaker 2 (27m 1s): Well, handling the payouts and whatnot? That’s all very important. It’s something that I find I’m very passionate about myself being in Australia, international banking is not friendly to Australians. It’s very difficult. Yeah. Phase are just really high. You can’t, it’s just not fair. It’s the best way I can, like I can explain it. And a lot, a majority of our content creators are Australian because that’s where I am.

That’s where all my friends are, you know? So we sort of we’re, we’ve got a high population of Australians on new list of life. But one thing I can’t stand is create having to reach a goal or a minimum amount to before they can ask for their money, you know, and also have to wait, you know, oh yeah, you made this, this sale, but you’re going to have to wipe you request a payout and then it’s going to be, you will approve it in two weeks time. Like let’s say like some of these credits, they were relying on the, these earnings to pay their bills and their rent and you know, general life expenses.

Right? So we were early adopters of the BitSight platform. And so far it’s been really good payouts from your exclusive account to your bit safe account, fast, like immediate and free. There’s no fees, but safe, a bit safe. They have a thing like some of the others, they have a debit card attached to your a bit safe account. So the create is they can use the debit card online or in person and not have to wait for the wire transfer to get to their bank account.

And in Australia, that could be from America. That’s, you know, you can look in the three to five days. So it, it definitely, definitely speeds up the process. One of our content creators, Bonnie shit, when she had just received a bit safe card, she got it all activated and all set up and it was a Friday afternoon and she requested a payout and we approved it. And then she used that, that, that, that card a bit safe card online to order pizza and some drinks for a Friday afternoon to be delivered.

And from requesting the payout to pressing confirm and payment confirmation was 15 minutes. Nice United. So from your available balance on internet platform where you sell content to being able to buy real, tangible objects and have it delivered to you within 15 minutes is notice that’s, that’s, that’s pretty, pretty grand grand shaking pretty

Speaker 1 (29m 43s): That’s. That’s amazing. So are there any perks for exclusive life creators?

Speaker 2 (29m 50s): Absolutely. Exclusive life has been developing its own line of Brendan mentioned us. We do crop shirts, broody shorts, bags, stickers. I’m currently trialing a NFC style business card. So if you way, if you’re a stripper or a dancer or something like that, or even just a really out there content creator, you can put the car, the business, the business card on someone’s phone, and it will open up a website to your exclusive dot links page.

So you can sort of share really quickly and easily your profile and your links and whatnot. Most of most of that stuff is available free to creators. Just being product platform, sort of effected in some of it you can purchase through the online store that we’ve got. We have a, a competitive recruiter program where recruiters and promote is going to in 5% of the sales and subscriptions earned by creators, but all the funds you generate, all the funds you generate from creative sales are actually taken out of the exclusive lives side of it.

So we, 80, 80, 20 split, we actually pay out 5% out of our 20% because it’s not fair to other fellow creators to be taxed for being recruited. Oh, that

Speaker 1 (31m 19s): Makes sense. Sure.

Speaker 2 (31m 21s): Let’s just not fair.

Speaker 1 (31m 22s): Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. So what sort of go ahead. I’m sorry.

Speaker 2 (31m 27s): Oh, sorry. Yeah, you’re right. We also have a studio and influence agreements which have bonus perks for those who can send us a lodge traffic base. If they’re interested in working with us. Very

Speaker 1 (31m 42s): Good. Now, what sort of content is trending at the moment?

Speaker 2 (31m 47s): Well, unexclusive life we’re seeing, I guess we’re seeing trends in the shot at home-style content sorta like home home studio content, not the top of studio con like content with makeup and the lights and the whole production crew, but more of like a real roll Paik. And does somebody’s intimate life, I guess. And we’re also seeing like the social media model style, self shot Ludes and nudes with the filters.

That kind of what you would almost see on Instagram, but just without clothes. Sure. Yeah. So right now it feels like scrolling through your feed on exclusive life. It’s quite easy to forget that you’re on a site that promotes and allows adult content and not one of the, the big social media platforms like Instagram.

Speaker 1 (32m 46s): That’s a, that’s a nice crossover. Do you think there’s still a market for studio content? Ah,

Speaker 2 (32m 54s): Always be, they’ll always be a, a market for studio content. In most cases, studio content is made of a much higher quality than then your home stuff. I’m not discrediting the home studio people, but you know, like the big budgets they have the budgets and the models and the equipment and the operators. And they’re able to turn out a solar product every time. Right. But with COVID and all that other stuff that’s happening, you know, we’re seeing a rise in the homestyle content

Speaker 1 (33m 28s): And it’s not, and it’s not going away.

Speaker 2 (33m 31s): Absolutely not. And we’re seeing the, the, the content creators, the self, the home homemade self self-made content creators being invited to the large biggest studios now and, you know, getting big deals out of it. And

Speaker 1 (33m 47s): Hey, you know, I was, I was reading a, I was reading an article in Bloomberg about only fans and they said they have several creators that make over a million dollars a year.

Speaker 2 (34m 1s): That’s amazing. Okay. Think about it. But one thing I, I saw that I thought was very interesting was a large studio. Once I lodge a well-known studio, they’ve recreating the self shot, social media style content, and it was a full, a full 51 minute feature film shot in vertical mode. You know, it’s a portrait landscape. And they even had like in the intros, they had like the Instagram story bars and the like, it, it was just, so now we’ve got high-end studio style recreating, social media, self shot, style content, and interesting.

I, I really liked it. I thought that was very clever as a photographer and videographer myself. I still work with local creators lock downs pending to help make content for their pages. But the style they are after these days is sort of like high-end promotional editorial style content, almost like an extension to the social media style we’ve been talking about, like, it’s just that little bit more refined because they still want to try and keep that self shot look, I guess.


Speaker 1 (35m 21s): Right. So what do you think the overall future is of porn?

Speaker 2 (35m 26s): This is a pretty hot topic at the moment, and I really love hearing other people’s opinions and views on it. I’ve been around a while, not as long as some, but still a little while. And if you had to told me, when I first started Zack in 10 years, time, girls are going to be taking photos with their phones and uploading it to a Facebook style website, making tens, hundreds, or even thousands, millions of dollars. I wouldn’t have believed you no, you know, phones aren’t that good 10 years ago, you know, but here we are, it happened a lot faster than 10.

It was what five years ago, we started seeing anybody now can become a content creator and start selling it’s more and more socially acceptable to have one of those online side hustles. People would never consider some people who would never consider putting risque photos online. Now, some of the world’s highest earners and they just didn’t know it, you know? Sure. And it doesn’t even have to be porn these days.

It can be bikini or lingerie, pigs, or even erotic stories written or spoken ASM art. It’s, you know, it’s extremely easy to get into all you really need is an idea, a phone, the internet, and a little bit of confidence. So

Speaker 1 (36m 50s): You think things are going to get a lot more competitive

Speaker 2 (36m 53s): In the future. Absolutely. If anything, in the last 12 to 18 months has shown us about growth in popularity. And as I said, becoming more and more socially acceptable to have these online side hustles, the market is going to get more competitive. This will make it harder for people who are just turning 18 or 21, depending on where you are. I’m not sure about overseas laws. It’ll make it hard for them to just who are entering the market.

And it may even start putting the squeeze on already established content creators themselves, but with the right mindset and goals set, and anyone, anyone entering the market can earn a modest living with their phone or internet. And in turn, as it becomes more socially acceptable to make and sell adult content, it’s also becoming acceptable and encouraged to pay for adult content and porn.

Being able to buy directly from the content creator themselves, whether it’s one exclusive life or any other of the platforms you are supporting the, the creator individually under reading that we have a small percentage, but most of it, our margins are small. They go directly to the content creator and you are helping individuals make the rent, buy the food, pay for schooling. And as a whole, I think that’s pretty awesome.

You know, like we, we’re giving people the ability to earn, you know, some girls, some content creators are they’re earning tens of thousands dollars and it’s, it’s all coming through our platform. It’s a little bit humbling. And I,

Speaker 1 (38m 42s): So do you have any tips for someone either wanting to start as a creator or is already

Speaker 2 (38m 50s): Watching from, from 60 snaps and the girls in the, in the early days through to now the biggest advice I think I can give is find your niche, find what you like doing what you’re good at, then find out what your viewers want, what your potential members want to see. You do keep consistent posting regularly, all that sort of stuff. Interact with possible DMS, replying to comments, going live, use all the tools available like exclusive life gives you lots of tools.

We have post scheduling. We’ve just implemented our own link tree sort of thing. So everything’s old, in-house automatic posting to Twitter, all that business, talk to the other creators, exclusive, lawful, wherever you are, you know, find, find a group of them and ask them what works for them. You know, get feedback, you know, cross promote yourself on other platforms. You can’t put everything out on Instagram and Facebook, but if you can try and keep them separate, they are very powerful marketing programs, Reddit, you know, if you know how to utilize Reddit use it.

There’s an untapped amount of potential earnings in facade, Reddit, and utilize affiliate programs. You know, people go through a lot of work to build the affiliate and set up the affiliate programs you use them take advantage of, take advantage of them right

Speaker 1 (40m 25s): Now. I understand you have an affiliate program. How’s it doing?

Speaker 2 (40m 29s): An affiliate program is currently in a private beta. We’re just still sort of testing it, looking for bugs, but it’s currently, it’s showing really promising results for the people that we who were using it at the moment, much like our recruiter program, our affiliate program is all managed. In-house links, premier content statistics. It’s all managed. In-house your earnings as an affiliate, go into your exclusive balance as if you were a content creator.

So, you know, it’s all kept there. It’s got a few little features that were, was really quite exciting and it’s taken a lot of work to get right. Again, we’re not sure might be the first for the industry. Earlier this year, I was speaking with a webcam model coach at one of the online trade shows that we have ex ex biz cover. Can’t remember which one it was now.

And I was speaking with her and she said, it feels like the internet is run from behind a curtain, webmasters traffic deals, media buys, unless you’re both a content creator and a webmaster, or you have a webmaster on your team, you’re going to have a hard time reaching that next level of success. And so I was talking, you know, we had a bit of a meeting and we came up with an idea to help put the creators in charge of the business side of their profile as well, like their, their, their sales, like they almost like a bit of a business CEO for themselves.

And I don’t want to go into too much detail because it’s still not released, but affiliate we’ve given the chance for creators to opt in or out of the affiliate program, set their own affiliate commission rights on per transaction type. But one of the most exciting features is the affiliate offer feature with the affiliate offer feature affiliates who have signed up, can browse a list of creators, filter them by name type tags, niche, whatever.

And then they can send an offer to that one particular creator or a group of them and alpha. And so for example, the best way to explain it is, you know, someone with a lot of Asian niche, traffic can find one of our Asian themed content creators and say, Hey, I can send 50,000 targeted visitors to your profile. Let’s do a 50 50 split on initial sales. And then, you know, a 30, 70 on rebuilds guys, you know, and then from there they can sorta talk back and forth, work it out, negotiate an offer, and went from there once accepted all the links and all that, the statistics and that old generated inside each users area and buzz area.

Sounds cool. Yeah. It’s we hope that, you know, our, our content creators and future affiliates will, will utilize it. It’s taken a lot of work to get it, to get it there, but we think it should be available to everyone pretty soon. We’re thinking of bundling it with the recruiter program and calling it something like the exclusive life partner program. Well, something, something fun. Like that

Speaker 1 (43m 57s): Sounds like a good name. So what is the future of exclusive life? And what’s in your new,

Speaker 2 (44m 4s): The exclusive life in the short term, we want to finalize with all the news going on. We want to finalize a few more features to give creators more options, help maximize the earnings. After that, I really want to crack into the streaming market. We’ve got plans drawn up for a hybrid of like a cam, excuse me, a cam site, cross livestreaming, sorta like Twitch. Cool create will be at a strain by that mobile or desktop interact with their fans, et cetera.

We’ve had some queries about creators, opening up shop fronts and being able to send, sell branded or printed products like calendars, sheds w coolers. There’s a tick tock trend where they’re getting them cigarette lot is getting like nudes printed on cigarette lot is they want to try and sell that Ava one creative. She asked if she could sell her molds of her breasts and bits, almost like an adult Etsy. Interesting. Long-term want to try and keep meeting the needs and ambitions of our content creators and stay committed to delivering a high quality service to our content creators, keep normalizing sex work, especially when it comes to the handling of sales for online content.

Like it’s just, if a bank finds out, that’s what you’re doing. You know, they’re starting to collect, especially in Australia that it’s very old views. You know, one of the big banks here says, where did you get your money from? And if you say, oh, I did it like this, then you know your risk of losing your bank. And if you’ve got any loans with them, it just gets messy and yucky, you know, keep food for us. And he might keep trying to close the gap between social media and porn, you know, cause like Instagram, the news, the new says Instagram is going to try and put in like a pay wall for certain content, keep challenging and challenging the needs, exceeding and redefining goals.

And for me, myself, I really want to get back into content production. Back when I started expanding my skills portfolio have drafted up some ideas and I’ve got some concepts on something I really want to try and get started. I think they’re going to be really fun. Cool. And of course, when, when I get there and I get, get them made, I’m going to use exclusive life as the content delivery platform hope. And who knows, maybe I’ll get to come back here and tell you about those projects.

Speaker 1 (46m 43s): I look forward to Zach. Well, Hey, thanks again for being our guest on adult side broker talk and I’ll look forward to that future conversation.

Speaker 2 (46m 52s): It’s been great.

Speaker 1 (46m 53s): My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well is your content been protected from piracy? And what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy, takedown or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates. The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be. What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use?

What content management system software is on your site. Do you use billing or affiliate software like gnats or MPA three? What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day? Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend a producer by the content that’s on your site?

What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about the website? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all of the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a nondisclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don’t know.

Maybe adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours. And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price in any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with attorney Michael Fattorosi. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Zak Ozbourne. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with social media guru Jason Hunt.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website at adult-site-broker-dot-com.
We’ve added some enhancements to the site, such as FAQs, and a complete new platform.
The look and feel of the new site are nice and up to date.
The new site also has links to our marketplace and affiliate program.

And don’t forget ASB Marketplace, the first platform where you can buy and sell adult sites and domains for FREE!
ASB Marketplace allows buyers and sellers the chance to come together on properties that are valued below our company’s minimum of 50,000 dollars.
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Visit ASB-Marketplace-dot-com and sign up as a seller or as a buyer today.

And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale. That adult site broker, we’re proud to introduce for sale a transgender tube site with over 120,000 unique visitors daily, the site is a custom built tube. Videos are encoded at a very high quality. There are four grades of video. It will auto adapt to the best quality based on the user’s connection. Premium quality and downloads are only available to members who have a paid account. The site script can take a lot of traffic with a current server being an only a five to 10% load.

There are over 30,000 videos. Retention rate is 85%, only $274,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site, broker talk is Jason Hunt of merged media. In fact, Jason was one of our first guests when we started the podcast. Jason, thanks for being with us again today on adult side broker talk, I am super pumped to be back. Thanks for having me, Bruce. I’m super pumped to have you.

Now we’ll tell everybody about your company. Merge media is a full service digital marketing agency. Their services include web design, SEO, SEM, and social media marketing. Jason is the founder of fresh crowd, which was a successful social media marketing company that merged into merged media a few years back. Thus, the name merged media Jason’s team is located in Ontario, Canada. Jason is of course the social media arm of the company. He uses Facebook and Instagram advertising to grow your business.

Their services range from social media management to Facebook and Instagram advertising. Their social media marketing services are strictly meant to help business owners. Like you reach a wider audience, increase the traffic to your website, expand brand awareness, convert more leads to sales, improve customer satisfaction, and become a thought leader in your community. So, Jason, how was that for a commercial?

Speaker 2 (3m 42s): You know, I need to bring you on tour with me. I think Bruce was very impressed with that intro. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (3m 48s): My pleasure. So let’s talk about the power of Facebook in 2021. How well is it still?

Speaker 2 (3m 56s): Yeah, I love that question. It’s a good question. A lot of people wouldn’t know to ask that question because you know, they don’t, they’re not, they don’t really know that how much Facebook actually changes and it changes. It seems like every couple of months, there’s some sort of a change, whether it’s a new ad placement, whether it’s, you know, new restrictions or policies that have been added in and, or a new account manager with Facebook, things are just always changing on the platform. But in 2021, is it still working? Absolutely. I mean, look at it. Like even people are spending tons of hundreds of thousands of dollars on billboards on next to freeways because they want that attention.

They want the traffic that’s going by that billboard and Facebook is the highway that has all the traffic. So, so people are that people are definitely still taking advantage of it, but you just need to be smart with the way you’re using the platform you need to, you can’t be hitting the boost button. You need to start optimizing for certain actions. You actually want your users to take whether it’s traffic to your website, whether it’s putting in their information on a Facebook lead form or whether it’s engaging or watching video content, whatever it is, whatever you tell Facebook to do, they’ll do it.

So, you know, the power of Facebook in 2021, well, we’re doing a lot more nurturing prior to asking on Facebook more so than we ever have. You know, we used to run a lot of, you know, aggressive ads towards cold audiences. They’re not as effective as they used to be. And you really do need to get them in your ecosystem by using some sort of a value proposition.

Speaker 1 (5m 26s): Interesting. So I shouldn’t just hit the boost button

Speaker 2 (5m 30s): Don’t ever hit that boost button. Now it’s tempting, Bruce. Okay. I know you’re a button smasher. You’re like, oh man,

Speaker 1 (5m 35s): I gotta tell you. I love buttons.

Speaker 2 (5m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. Don’t hit the boost button though. You’re you’re what you’re doing. Anybody who presses that boost button and says, I’ll throw $10 a day and hit this button and, and play Facebook will take your money if you give it to them. Oh yeah. That’s easy. It’s easy way to give Facebook money. It’s putting Facebook and Facebook slot machine, you know, but what you’re doing is you’re telling Facebook to go and get your ads in front of people, put your ads in front of people that have a tendency to scroll through content. Because like going back to what I just said a second ago, you’re telling Facebook to put your ads in front of people that take a certain action.

So if you sit boost, you’re optimizing for awareness. So what’s happening here is Facebook is being like, okay, well, let’s see here, Bruce wants to put his ad in front of anybody. That’s 18 plus living in the us. Cool. And here goes your ad. They’ll just throw your ad out there. But what they’re going to do is they’re going to find all those people that are not being targeted by those savvy marketers that are looking for the people that are clicking on content and becoming leads and buying stuff and all that stuff. You’re optimizing for the people that just fire through content all day long. So that’s who you’re going to get, get what you pay for garbage.

Exactly. So that’s what happens when you boost, that was kind of a long winded explanation of boost, but I think,

Speaker 1 (6m 48s): Okay. So, okay. Yeah, we can be long-winded on this podcast. We don’t have a time limit. Jason. We can talk, we can talk about Facebook and social media for three hours if you want. And it’s, it’s perfectly okay if you’re, if you still have, if you still have a voice it’s okay.

Speaker 2 (7m 4s): Exactly. And plus it’s going to be way past my bedtime, but that’s okay. That’s true.

Speaker 1 (7m 9s): That’s true. As we record this late in Jason’s evening after the kids have gone to bed.

Speaker 2 (7m 16s): Oh good. I’m an, I’m a night person. I actually prefer to work at night to be completely honest. So there you go.

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): Now I used to be, when I was younger now, how would someone lower their ad costs on Facebook? I guess not by hitting the boost button.

Speaker 2 (7m 32s): Yeah. You want to definitely avoid that. I mean, lower costs. It’s very easy to generate low cost. And then one of the ways to do that is by open targeting. What that means is, is, you know, people like to take advantage of all the interests. Like I want to target, for example, small business owners or people that like this person or this athlete or this public figure or this model, you can do that. That’s great. But think about all the people on Facebook, especially since Cambridge Analytica happened, that decided not to give any information to Facebook.

There’s a lot of people out there that are in your target audience, state, you don’t know how to get in touch with them, but those people might have the same tendencies as your customers, as your ideal clients. Facebook knows whether those people have a tendency to click on content and purchase online. Not everybody does that. Facebook knows if you have a, if your audience, you know, spends a certain amount of time watching a type of video, you know, Facebook knows that they might not label, you know, Turks and Caicos as an interest on their Facebook page, but maybe they watch a ton of videos from Turks in case goes, well, there you go.

Facebook knows this person likes Turks and Caicos, right? So I think to lower your ad costs, what you need to do is just try to target as big an audience as possible, especially if you’re targeting a cold audience.

Speaker 1 (8m 46s): Okay. Is it better to target a cold audience or a warm audience?

Speaker 2 (8m 51s): Oh, well you always want to get to a warm audience. That’s definitely what you want to do. But when you’re starting out, especially testing, you want to have it as big of an audience as possible. Now what happens here is once Facebook understands the audience that you’re after, they’ll get your ads in front of people that look like your customers more frequently, usually after the learning phase phase, which is a better week long. But to go back to your question, retargeting is so important because you want to increase that ad frequency. Usually the first time somebody sees one of your ads, they’re probably just going to, they’re going to blow right past it and not think twice about it, but it’s continually getting in front of them, increasing the ad frequency to about four or five or six, meaning that person seeing your ad about four or five or six times.

And then it becomes familiar. And that’s when it gets really fun. Because now you can get certain types of ads in front of those people that are familiar with your brand, such as, you know, addressing objections. Why wouldn’t somebody purchase your product? Why wouldn’t somebody trust Bruce to sell their adult website? Well, let’s address that with a testimonial ad to a retargeting audience. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (9m 50s): Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. You know, as you know, I spent forever and radio and the one thing you learn right away in radio is it is all about frequency it and it’s, it’s really the same with all advertising, right?

Speaker 2 (10m 5s): I, I like, I like thinking of it this way. You know, it’s like even people, you know, we go to a lot of the same trade shows and events and you know, people that go to these events is spend a lot of cash to get some banner space, which is awesome. But you need to compliment those efforts because if you’re spending so much money on a banner, on an event or at a meat market, then why aren’t you using Facebook as a target those people at that physical location? You know, you don’t have to spend a lot on that Facebook ad. You can spend 50 bucks and target a physical location at a same place where they’re going to be seeing your banners all over the place.

That’s increasing the ad frequency that we’re talking about, same as the radio, right? If somebody that does radio, if you’re targeting a certain town or city or area where you better be running some Facebook ads to that same area, right. To just increase that ad frequency.

Speaker 1 (10m 50s): Yeah. And you have, you have clients, I think quite a few clients who do trade shows. So they buy off on that concept.

Speaker 2 (10m 59s): Oh yeah. A hundred percent. And I mean, even working with the events themselves, you know what I mean? There’s, you know, targeting people that are at the physical event, you know, if you want to get a certain message in front of them, there’s still, you can get so creative with it. If you’re an event, you know, partner, and this is one thing, just going back to the very first question, but the power of Facebook in 2021, using some of the connections that you have, you know, in, in kind of your network or your community to piggyback off each other, you know, like, like a great example of this is we work with a magazine. It’s a real estate magazine, but now we’re using that platform, which has, I believe it was like 43,000 followers.

And we’re using that platform to have like people that want to get in front of real estate brokers are using their platform, their branding and advertising their products under that brand. Sure. It’s it just gives additional credibility to the actual product itself instead of a product selling their product on their own page, right. The product selling their on a high authority page. Sure. I’ll try to get influencer.

Speaker 1 (11m 57s): Absolutely. Now how can an adult business best used Facebook?

Speaker 2 (12m 2s): Okay. So the best way to do it and, and seeing this done successfully is the use of a lead magnet that is not in any way, shape or form related to adult. Facebook’s getting savvier by the day at sniffing out a lot of the users that go against policy. There are blackout marketers out there. You can talk to them. It’s not really my, my lane. I’m a white hat guy, but for me, if, if, if to work at working with our businesses, it’s, Hey, let’s use Facebook as the platform to get that information we need from them, right?

Use Facebook to get them off of Facebook. I use Facebook to get that name, email, phone number in some cases, or, you know, any other additional questions you might have and get them over to email and have a very solid nurture sequence because in emails where you’re going to sell them, you’re not going to sell them on Facebook. So let’s take your steak. For example, let’s take out site broker. I think it’s a great example. You want to target people that you’re a little easier than a typical adult site because Facebook doesn’t frown on. Like, it would a lot of other ones. So let’s talk about, let’s talk about something else.

Talk about dating. Okay. So in the case of dating, you know, dating is very difficult to advertise on Facebook. So why not create a piece of content? We can call it a lead magnet, a white paper, downloadable PDF about the top five places to take your dream date. You know, something like that, top five places to impress your dream date, right? That’s a great little lead magnet for a guy that single that’s trying to get, get out there and start to start to mingle, right? So why not?

You know, something like that, what would be more than willing to submit their name and email in exchange for this downloadable PDF for lead magnet, which could even exist on somebody’s blog? That’s the thing. If you’re like, where am I going to get this content? Go look at your blog. You probably have some great content on there that you can turn into a white paper that is just enticing enough for people to provide their contact information, to receive it in return. So, so going down that, that avenue. So now that person submits their name and email in exchange for that, you know, top five ways to impress your dream date, lead magnet.

And now you have the sequence of emails that are following that up. You’ve now filtered this person off of Facebook to be one of your ideal sweet spot clients. Now it’s on you to just nurture them, to getting them to sign up to your program. It’s just using it in that type of a way where you’re not so direct with the sale.

Speaker 1 (14m 22s): Isn’t it? Don’t you find it difficult though, in your business to get adult companies, to even consider Facebook

Speaker 2 (14m 30s): Book a hundred percent. Yeah. That is tricky. And it’s funny because you know, I get that question every single time I go and speak at TES or internet straight, you know, I I’ll always get that question. And it’s the thing is you just kinda gotta understand that it’s not, you’re not going to get that ROI right away. It’s not going to happen. Yeah. And you do to deploy patients. It’s not like, Hey, let’s just try a three-day test. Like you might say to a website to try the traffic. It’s not like that because of the abilities that we have to target and retarget, you have to give it some time.

So that first month, you know, we’re deploying a lot of different types of creative, a lot of different types of copy headlines. And we’re testing everything against different audiences to find the winning combination. And then once we find the winning combination number doubling down on what works, and that is kind of, you know, it’s, it’s, I’m losing my train of thought here, but where are we going with that?

Speaker 1 (15m 25s): Mine goes off the track many times a day. No, I mean, do you have to, do you have trouble convincing and I’m older than you, you have trouble convincing adult companies to even try Facebook.

Speaker 2 (15m 37s): Yeah. It, it, and it’s just, it’s just having that patient. So we’ve worked at quite a bit of adult and it’s, it’s just having the patients with it, you know, almost giving it, you got to give it 90 days in terms of convincing. It does get tricky because Facebook’s just that thing. It’s a, it’s a huge audience, but people are not really taking advantage of it because they don’t necessarily know the right strategies to take, to get that audience to convert because there are other places out there that you don’t have that you might be able to get an easier conversion. But this one here is just more about building the brand, any sort of company out there.

If you’re an adult company, use Facebook to build a brand, get people familiar with your brand and then use the opportunity to sell them over email, not on Facebook.

Speaker 1 (16m 19s): Okay. Now, how are you using Facebook with SEO? I know you guys obviously have an SEO department, which I’m utilizing, how do you put the two?

Speaker 2 (16m 29s): Yeah, sure. So that was one of the big reasons why I merged my company in the first place was to merge it with an SEO company. So we can take advantage of, of some of that direct traffic that’s hitting the site, the high intent stuff. Right. You know, that’s, if you’re getting a lot of traffic from SEO, that’s high intent it’s for, for whatever, let’s say adult site broker, you know, let’s say, you know, you’re getting a lot of people looking to sell websites. Well, we want to make sure we have a Facebook pixel installed in your site so we can get the right message in front of those people, that hot audience that’s seeking out your services.

Right. And it’s going to be a very specific message that we’re going to hit them with a Facebook ad. It’s again, increasing the ad frequency. If somebody goes and searches for how to sell an ad on a website, they might click on a few sites. But if they click on auto site broker, and then, you know, five minutes later when they’re on Instagram to see a swipe up ad for like, Hey, did you know, did you know, how have you met Bruce? Do you know, Bruce, Bruce has all these contacts. He has a massive Rolodex. He can sell your adult site and no time, you know what I mean? Like something that is just going to like, get them back over to your website. That’s the key. Right? You want to get the back over there and stay top of mind and that’s that, that it just helps compliment that, that SEO high intent SEO traffic.


Speaker 1 (17m 39s): Hm. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. We’ll have to talk about that now is blogging because we haven’t done the two together is blogging still important, 20, 21. And why? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17m 52s): You know, we, we have a pretty hefty blogging, or I guess you could say copywriting department merged and it’s, it’s super huge. We use certain there’s certain tools that we use to make sure that, you know, we’re ranking amongst the competitors. I, I definitely think it is still important in terms of, and I’ve had this conversation with some industry people as well. It’s like, should I use my, you know, my blog has an opportunity to make it really like SEO out. I guess you could say, you know, like the SEO using these tools like surfer SEO to make sure that you’re ranking or do I just continue to create this blog?

That’s very lifestyle oriented talking about my life because it is two different types of writing. Now on that side of it, I don’t know if that’s the best route to take is continuing to write that personal blog. If I would be suggesting vlogging, because people have a tendency to watch videos more often than not, we’re on the SEO side. You know, if we’re doing blogging for SEO, it’s like, it’s very high intent searches. So I still think it serves a purpose on the SEO side, but on the other flip side of it, I just don’t know if people have the attention anymore to be digesting or consuming, you know, personal blog content.

I just think flogs is the way to go. I could be wrong with that, but just from what I see, you see a lot more traction with blogging and on social media obviously then than you do and, and just writing a personal piece on a blog.

Speaker 1 (19m 15s): Okay. Well, what about, what about blogging when it isn’t connected to social media?

Speaker 2 (19m 22s): Yeah. So if you mean just like on the website, you mean

Speaker 1 (19m 27s): As an SEO tool?

Speaker 2 (19m 29s): Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. That’s, that’s where we’re, we’re always utilizing that with every single client that signs up. We want to make sure we have a, you know, a blog content that’s going out there on a consistent, consistent basis. And, and, you know, obviously, because things are always changing in search, we just had a, a Google update happened there a couple months back. So, yeah, luckily, right. So just, you got to stay on top of that and pumping up blog content on a consistent basis is, is always important because your keywords and the volume of keywords that are being searched is always changing as well.

Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20m 0s): Sure. Now this is kind of a loaded question, but I’ll ask it in any way, should a business hire someone internally or outsource their digital marketing and why? Yes.

Speaker 2 (20m 12s): Yeah. So, you know, it’s, it’s a good question because it really depends on where we are businesses at, right? Like in a lot of cases, sometimes it’s good. If you’re a massive businesses having, you know, you have a massive budget to spend each month on, on SEO, SEM and social. Sometimes it’s good to have a point person internally that is kind of navigating those waters, you know, communicating with that team because you know, this is kind of why, you know, my business did create the one-stop digital shop is because we have all of those individual areas and how so business owners don’t need to deal with somebody for their Google ads, a different person for their SEO, a different person for social and other, for their website.

It just makes life so much easier for our clients. But there are benefits to hiring that internal person at a bigger company because that point person will be the liaison for all of those other departments. And one person cannot, cannot, cannot have the, the skillset required for all of those different departments. There’s technical, there’s creative, there’s analytical. It’s just, it’s tough for one person to encompass all those skillsets. And that’s why you kind of need a team to do it for you. So I would say, I would say hiring a hybrid of the two, or if you don’t have the, the funds to hire somebody internally, then hire that one-stop shop that can take care of, for take care of all of it for you in house.

Speaker 1 (21m 27s): I think that when you say that, I think it’s really important to 0.1 thing out because I have experienced it with our marketing company. I talk to people and they go, oh, we have marketing in house. And what you come to find out is they’ve got a recent college graduate handling their marketing and in your case handling their social media. So maybe you should talk about guarding against having someone who maybe isn’t an expert.

Speaker 2 (21m 58s): Well, you know what, that’s your brand. And, and, you know, you want to have somebody to just test with your brand and test with your money, or do you want to hire somebody that’s experienced, right. And I think a big benefit of hiring outsourcing it is, you know, you can really get an entire team at the fraction of the cost of hiring somebody, you know, internal. And I think that’s, I think that’s very important. I think, cause you got to factor in your ad, spend, the ad spend is not, not included in that employee’s salary, you know? So you gotta factor that in as well.

And I think that is kind of a sweet spot for us is, is those businesses out there that, that do have that realization that they, they, there isn’t a better solution out there that has a better skill set at a cheaper price.

Speaker 1 (22m 40s): But you, I mean, you guys work with some larger companies too, right.

Speaker 2 (22m 44s): A hundred percent and those companies, and that’s where I mentioned the hybrid. It actually works really well if we’re working with a marketing director at a company directly with them because it takes away that element of having to educate them as well, which happens a lot with business owners. You know, I tell that to business owners, it’s like, Hey, you focus on your one thing and we’ll focus on our one thing. And then we’ll talk at that at the results at the end of month, you know what I mean? That’s kinda, that’s kind of a situation that we want, but with a marketing director, when we’re working directly with the marketing director, we don’t need to have any, there’s no education involved. It’s all about the numbers.

It’s all about getting to point B as quickly.

Speaker 1 (23m 16s): It’s possible. You hope so. You hope so hope so. Just like people shouldn’t be selling their own websites now, shameless plug number one. Now how is merged media building its brand in 2021?

Speaker 2 (23m 34s): Yeah. So, so back to the narrative of, of building brand, I think it’s important. I mean, I’m, I’m the brand ambassador for us and I’m fortunate to have an awesome team behind me. That’s a lot better doing those jobs than I am. And one of the biggest things that we did when the pandemic hit is we started a podcast and we’re creeping up to episode 100, which is going to be

Speaker 1 (23m 54s): Actually

Speaker 2 (23m 55s): That’s great. And you’ll, and I think this is it’s good because this is episode 65.

Speaker 1 (24m 2s): Well, by the time this runs, it’ll probably be 75 or 78 or so, but, but this week, the week we’re taping this it’s going to be 66. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24m 15s): Yeah. Okay. So, and this is the important thing and, and, and well, congrats to you as well, because it’s not that easy to get the 65 episodes. It’s, you know, this, and I think it’s a big, it’s a big challenge being consistent. And, and we talked briefly about this before we went live here and that’s, you know, I’ve had a couple of times where it’s been like the F like we go live every Tuesday and on the Friday prior, we still didn’t have an episode lined up for the Tuesday. So I’d be, I’d be sitting there for an hour, just DM-ing people on Instagram, just trying to get a podcast guest.

You didn’t call me,

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): You didn’t call me. You know, now my feelings are really hurt.

Speaker 2 (24m 53s): You’re on the street style through, so, okay. I think you’re like number 12 and I got the number nine and locks. So

Speaker 1 (25m 2s): I feel better kind of,

Speaker 2 (25m 5s): Yeah. We just need a topic and we can’t talk about the 49ers and we’re not going to talk about the giants. Okay. Come on. So, so, well, yeah. So what, what I was getting to there with that was that you have to be consistent with the podcast. And, and this is one of the ways we’re building our brand in 2021 is being consistent with the podcast. But that podcast, when we do it, no intention is to sell was not about selling it all. It’s a PR like I had a girl on last week talking about the power of the moon and how people can use the power of the moon to better their business.

And This has nothing to do with, there’s no business there for me, but what it might do is provide some value to my audience. And that’s what I’m leading with with that. Because a lot of the times

Speaker 1 (25m 48s): The moon, I think the 49ers and giants would be a better topic, but maybe they’re slightly prejudiced.

Speaker 2 (25m 54s): Fair enough. But yeah, but it’s, it’s how it was using the power of the moon to who’s geared towards entrepreneurs to better your business. She’s a realtor and she uses the power of the moon, the cell houses. It’s crazy. Like she’ll have conversations. So say the murders in the third quarter right now, let’s not sell this house yet. Let’s just wait until it’s full and then we’ll put it on the market. No, that’s not true there really well. Anyway, go listen to that podcast episode on the merge marketing podcast, shameless plug for myself.

Yeah. But, but with the podcast, I think it’s one of the best things that we’ve done just by bringing that top of top of funnel awareness. It’s been really good because there’s not, it’s rare that have a conversation now with somebody that signs up as a client that did not, at some point, listen to the podcast and have something to say about it. So

Speaker 1 (26m 42s): You were one of my main influences to do this. I remember I had you and a couple of other people telling me I should do a podcast. And I think you kind of pushed it over the edge. You said, do

Speaker 2 (26m 52s): A podcast. And I said, okay, damn it. I’m going to do a podcast. And yeah, it’s been awesome. It’s been, it’s been completely awesome. Yeah. And it’s, you know what, it’s, it’s probably one of the funnest things I do. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27m 5s): I love, and I’m a writer, I’m a former radio guy. So, you know, it’s kinda, you never get that out of your blood. So, so is podcasting for everyone.

Speaker 2 (27m 14s): I, you know, I, I do think there is a place, if you can carve out a certain niche, you know what I mean? It’s, I think it’s very, you know, the point of entry is very easy, you know, we’re just having a simple conversation here on Skype. Right. And, and it’s being recorded for ours. It’s, it’s really like I’m using a platform called stream yard. So I capture the video content. Yep. So what happens is we’re going live on Facebook and then I’m sending that over to my team. Who’s cutting it up and grabbing little short 32nd clips.

So we can put those clips on Instagram. Facebook’s Tik TOK, LinkedIn, they’re going everywhere. And, and then from there we have the actual audio which goes live whenever we launch it on, we launch on Tuesdays. And then, and then from there, it’s just like basically following up. And, and, and it’s, we’re creating blog content off of those podcast episodes as well. So there’s a lot happening behind the scenes for it. And I think that’s the key. If you have that infrastructure set up, or you have a team around you that can take care of a lot of those tasks and there’s tons of companies out there that can help you actually automate a lot of that stuff, then it makes it easy.

You just have to show up and have conversations relevant to the audience that you’re trying to target. That’s important. Like don’t make it for everybody, make it for a very specific audience because you know, the closer you can marry that with your audience and, and outside broker talk is a great example of that, right. Is, is, is you could see better results and you get better retention and people will subscribe because they’re going to get consistent content. We can, we go?

Speaker 1 (28m 41s): That’s true. Yeah. And we have some great guests like you. So what are some best practices for marketing apart?

Speaker 2 (28m 49s): Yeah, I think definitely using social media is a great way to do it. Like I just said, getting, getting some clips cut up. If you can do a video, it’s a, it’s a bonus. If not there’s platforms out there like headliner, if you just have audio based, you can throw an audio. And they do like those little radio waves and stuff like that. You can do some, do some funky video stuff with just the audio, but, you know, doing that is important. And, and like I said, carving out that audience using Facebook ads is a great way to do it. We’re spending, we’re spending just about 30, 40 bucks a day to drive listens to our podcast.

And one of the things we’re doing. So for example, we had a podcast episode with the sales automation guy. So all the clips from that episode, I’m targeting a very open audience in north America, people that are salespeople so much, like we talked about earlier, having an open audience, it’s pretty open. I’m targeting anybody with any sort of affiliation with sales throughout north America, millions and millions of people. And yeah, but it’s getting the right content in front of the right person. There’s another one. Like for example, the moon episode, I am not going to target that same audience.

I’m not going to target salespeople. She specifically focuses on female entrepreneurs. So I’m going to target that episode strictly geared towards female entrepreneurs. And, and that’s the point is that every episode you try to carve out a niche and try to target that, that niche with that episode. And you’ll, you’ll find yourself getting listens. Sure.

Speaker 1 (30m 16s): Now you have in the past pre pandemic, I got to talk about that in every episode, it gets old. You have certainly been a regular at many conferences. Are you planning on going to any this year?

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): I would love to. I love to. Yeah. You know, I’m, I’m dying to get out to Prague. I’d like to go to Prague. Unfortunately, I just got to wait for the regulations here in Canada, just to, I think they’re easing up, but I just want to keep a close tally on that. So that’d be kind of a last minute. And then, you know, there’s a affiliate grand slam happening in Malta in December and, you know, affiliate summit. So there’s a lot that I definitely want to check out. And obviously the virtual way is the way that a lot of conferences are happening.

Now. I actually had a conversation today with somebody from burning man burning man is you’ve heard of the burning man festival. Sure. Yeah. So burning, man’s going virtual now, which is kind of interesting because if you go to the website, it’s quite interesting. They’re trying to create the exact experience of in the middle of the desert online, which is very interesting, but they have a stage geared towards like, you know, they have a self-help stage and they have a stage geared towards, you know, wellbeing, wellness, anti-aging all this stuff. And, and somehow they’re putting me on there to speak about, you know, the gift of giving and giving away freebies.

So I’m going to be talking a bit about that, which is interesting, which is the approach that everybody should be doing on Facebook, right. That we’re talking about here and then just taking it off of Facebook and it kind of applies to any sort of marketing. Right?

Speaker 1 (31m 55s): Absolutely. So what are your thoughts about these virtual and hybrid conferences that have emerged last year and this year? Do you think their heritage?

Speaker 2 (32m 4s): Yeah, I think naturally I think there is a large amount of people that have seen how easy they can now network, how networking virtually has become a norm that maybe look at traveling as kind of a hassle in the past. And it was stressful. And, and I think a lot of people would have had an epiphany and been like, you know what, I’m never traveling again. I’m going to hang out here and just watch my, I have my zoom calls and go to virtual conferences. So I think a lot of people may have went that way, but you’re never going to replay it, replace, you know, going out for dinners and the handshakes and the hugs and, and that’s never going to be replaced.

So I definitely think there’s going to be a place for obviously live events there. I think there’s going to be an extra emphasis on how intimate they are. And I think people will appreciate, you know, having face-to-face communication and naturally there’s ones that are not conforming back to live events are going to be missing out on opportunities as well. But I definitely think there is a place for hybrid. I think, you know, I think, well, TES just did a hybrid <inaudible> a couple months ago where they actually had Derek streaming. Those, those talks live online at their virtual conference on Brella, the platform Brella, and, and then they actually had the physical conference.

So I think it’s cool. I think it’s awesome. But then again, I think, I think a lot of event or event promoters might, might worry that that hybrid the virtual side of it will take away an audience. So they might just stick the,

Speaker 1 (33m 30s): I think, based upon their experiences with the hybrid show, I don’t think you can expect to see another hybrid from T E S

Speaker 2 (33m 41s): Yeah. That’s not too many people, obviously. I mean, you can’t just blame the virtual side of it for, for, for that. But I think just COVID itself is just like deterred a lot of people wanting to travel just yet. Right. So, and yeah,

Speaker 1 (33m 56s): What’s up, what’s been the impact on your business with COVID by the way, I would think it’s helped it

Speaker 2 (34m 3s): Originally, when it first hit, we were hit pretty hard. We had, cause we worked with a lot of restaurants, a lot of dental travel business.

Speaker 1 (34m 11s): I forgot about the local aspect.

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): Yeah. So a lot of local businesses were hit really hard, even travel. Like, you know, it was doing a lot with a massive travel company that works with like 3000 travel agents. And for them it was just like business, just marketing budget, stopped business, stopped, everything stopped. There’s nothing you can do. Like you can’t even have a conversation with them and pivot out of that. It’s just really tough to pivot out of that. Like what do you do? You can’t do affiliate or

Speaker 1 (34m 38s): Closed, close, what can you do about we’re closed now?

Speaker 2 (34m 41s): So it’s just, it’s really tough. So, but naturally being in digital marketing, you know, we’re fortunate enough to be in an industry that we, where we can be nimble. And we pivoted to home renovations, landscaping. We actually are part owners of a landscape company. We’re part owners of real estate magazine. So we just, we kind of went with the flow and did a lot of stuff that in those industries that were thriving, people were not spending their money on cruises. They’re spending their money on staycations in their backyard.

So, you know, getting decks, done, getting the kitchen countertops done. So those businesses were thriving and they needed leads. So that’s where we were able to help out specifically. But the landscape company was just went bonkers when COVID hit. And, and these guys are getting hundreds of calls a day from a lot of it’s for big, it goes to the SEO that we’ve been doing for them. So fortunately, when we’re ranking in the top three and all three of those listings come right back to us, it’s, you’re going to get a lot of leads that way.

Speaker 1 (35m 43s): And things are recovering nicely. Now I would imagine.

Speaker 2 (35m 45s): Yeah. Things are well, things are now. Now it’s crazy because now as we come out of the pandemic, hopefully, you know, knock on wood. There’s no fourth and they’re not locked down with the fourth wave, but you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s getting busy. People are, it’s almost like people are kind of panicking now because they see their competition spending and they’re like, oh shit, got to get my ass in gear and start spending some money. So people are getting very anxious to start spending and start getting businesses.

Speaker 1 (36m 13s): Well, Hey, Jason, like to thank you for being our guest again today on adults. I broker tuck and I’m sure we’ll have a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (36m 21s): Yeah. Anytime Bruce. Thanks for having me. Okay. How about

Speaker 1 (36m 24s): Tomorrow?

Speaker 2 (36m 25s): Hmm.

Speaker 1 (36m 26s): Okay. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation. The potential buyers may want to find out about this should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content. Number of images and number of videos. How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years.

If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports get all the information organized in a legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything that a potential buyer needs to know such as are you being sued?

Do you have any substantial debts, et cetera? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer, the leader, find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Zach Osborn of exclusive.life. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Jason Hunt. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult actress Coralyn Jewel.

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The surfers on the site will be hard pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time browsers, bang bros, and just about every other adult networking site. They’ve been growing their email list since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000 in the past six months, their unsubscribe rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well.

This is boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding discount and review platform for only $956,000. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today, adult side broker talk is our returning champion, coral and Juul coral. And thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (3m 8s): Thank you for having me the returning champion. How did I become a champion? That’s what I want to know.

Speaker 1 (3m 12s): I guess you’ve never seen real time with Gilmore.

Speaker 2 (3m 15s): Now.

Speaker 1 (3m 17s): You got to watch it. He uses that for his guests when guests come back on. So I decided I’d use that just for just, I knew you would for kicks and giggles. So let’s tell people about you. Courtland is a perfect example of a woman living by her favorite quote. Patients will prosper. She’s a number one international bestselling author of the book when the ice melts the story of coral and Juul, as well as a working porn star or retired competitive athlete, porn director, swing club, owner, fitness trainer running out of breath, wedding planner, talent manager, voiceover actors, coach, and motivational speaker Cortland Juul is the epitome of a strong, powerful female entrepreneur.

Join her journey through life as a sex worker in a world where judgment is human nature, follow her coaching training sessions, speaking engagements and book signing schedule on Corlon juul.com as well as their social media coral, and also hosts a podcast, which you was truly has been a guest on by the way, it’s called the hanky panky podcast. Love that name and can be founded hanky panky podcast.com. Where else would it be found? So Carlin I’m exhausted already.

Speaker 2 (4m 28s): I’m exhausted listening to that. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 (4m 32s): All the sneeze coming on. Well, that was well that while I was saying that, so yeah, you’re going to have to talk a little bit. So you were last seen being chased around by a poor young writer for why not by the name of Michael McGrady in Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (4m 47s): So,

Speaker 1 (4m 48s): So how has that extended weekend?

Speaker 2 (4m 50s): So Michael was assisting us, I’m working on turning my book into a documentary. So that’s another project on top of everything. And so Michael was helping us with the screenwriting for that. And so we did our first set of scenes. We shot them out in LA and Michael came out from Colorado and we did, I believe he shot nine scenes in two days. And then Michael and I went to kind of enjoy a little bit at casino time or whatever. And then,

Speaker 1 (5m 18s): You know,

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): It’s my escape from reality. I can just sit there and have a glass of wine and push buttons and pray. I like how Michael started his article with me. He said, flag it, flag it, flag it. Cause that’s what the bonus is. Three flags. And then you get to go to the bonus round. It’s the best ever.

Speaker 1 (5m 34s): Oh God. Yeah. I talked to him and we talked about that weekend and it was a I’m sure you’ve well, that’s right. It hasn’t aired yet. So I’m sure. I’m sure you’ll enjoy that. Now. I understand you were at, at exotica for the first time. Was it successful? Did you learn anything?

Speaker 2 (5m 54s): I learned a lot from exotica, so that’s my first time doing an exotic, I’ve done ABNs for years, but never has never had a booth at the ABNs and exotica. I found, I learned a lot more for on the business side for me. So, you know, I brought too much stuff with me, traveling on an airplane and I looked around at other booths to figure out, you know, what’s, eye-catching what brings you, wait, what brings people into your booth? Stuff like that. So that was a learning experience for me. I’ve I came home, I redesigned my entire setup, my banners, my displays, cause I’ve got my CBD personal lubricant.

And so that I learned a lot there. And then I also learned from, I did a seminar there. I did motivational speaking seminar. And I think that what I’m going to do with the next that three exotic does is actually have a piece of paper at my booth that says what time my seminar is, because I can’t tell you, yeah. People would come to me and they were like, you know, it’s seven o’clock tonight. Right? And I’m like, no last night, you know, and they, you know, they missed it. And so I think if I have like a little reminder, so little things, you learn a lot, but I had a great time and I met a bunch of people and I bumped into, they run.

I ran into a lot of old friends I haven’t seen for years. So it was nice.

Speaker 1 (7m 1s): We talked about the seminar called, I believe it’s called in your truth. It’s a sex positive seminar. What kind of feedback have you received on it? And

Speaker 2 (7m 13s): I got amazing feedback on it actually. And when I talk about it, I really just, you know, opened up myself to everybody. That’s sitting in the audience and I share my story. I share my story of how, you know, I was a immigrant from South Africa, you know, private school education, I’m Olympic hopeful to go to the Olympics for South Africa for figure skating. And you know how, when life throws you a curve ball, what are you going to do with it? And where’s it going to take you? And you know, how never pretty much, you know, ultimately never did I say when I was a little girl, eight, nine years old, you know, I think when I grow up, I’m going to be a porn star and a director.

I’m going to run a swingers club and I’m going to be a wedding planner podcast. I was published in international best-selling book, make a documentary, you know, be a motivational speaker, lifestyle coach, all these kinds of different things. But it’s my, my seminars really just about how I finally think that all these curve balls that were thrown at me put me where I need to be, which is motivational speaking. So that’s kinda neat. I had a really good time. I loved it.

Speaker 1 (8m 8s): And what do you discuss during your, during your speeches? Give us a little,

Speaker 2 (8m 15s): That’s kind of like it, I talk about, you know, how, you know, how like little things. So for example, was a good example. I was got a modeling job. Okay. And I was a model. I was never, I was never a stripper. I was never in the porn industry. I have a degree in theatrical production and just getting on Facebook and posting. Does anybody know of a nightclub that I can shoot out with? My photographer takes me to a gentleman’s club in San Diego where I walk in and it’s my high school friend who then says to me, you should be a dancer.

And at 35 years old, I started dancing. And that led, that led to somebody else say to me, you should dance in Palm Springs. And that led to the manager there whose name was Hank. Okay.

Speaker 1 (8m 59s): Of course it was

Speaker 2 (8m 60s): While you’re ready for this. So Hank says to me, would you be interested in running a swingers event here at our place, which leads to Hanks, like boss saying to me, let’s invest in a swingers club for you. And that’s how we came up with hanky panky. And then, so you see what I’m saying? Like life throws you a curve ball and then you just keep taking it and running with it and seeing where you’re going to go next.

Speaker 1 (9m 18s): That’s crazy. That’s crazy. Talk about your, your childhood in South Africa. Now, you, you were a figure skater that I kind of start to understand your personality based on that, because I know that when you’re an Olympic hopeful and you’re, and you’re especially figure skaters who to put so much work into it, the work ethic just has to be amazing that that must have really trained you for the amount of work you do now.

Speaker 2 (9m 51s): I think absolutely. I definitely can look back. So I started ice skating when I was three years old out here when my family immigrated to California. And I really, really do say that I think figure skating kept me out of trouble because when my friends were smoking and drinking and you know, being sexually active, I wasn’t, they actually, they used to call me the blue ball queen ’cause I, I knew I wasn’t going to get pregnant. Cause then I couldn’t ice skate. So ice skating definitely give you the, you know, the discipline. I kept me out of trouble and stuff like that.

We actually, we actually filmed, this is an interesting thing. We’re filming my documentary, as I told you. And we did one of our scenes at the LA, we did one of our scenes. We needed to do it on an ice rink. And so I called the ice rink and I said, you know, told them who I was. And the director of the ice rink is the same director that was there when I was three years old. So she let us use the rink. And it was funny because we were driving down there. We had to, I don’t know if you know J crew, but J crew. We had to wake up at four at 3:00 AM to leave my house at 4:00 AM to be at the ice rink at five. That was the ice time they gave us. And I just remember looking at the girl who’s playing me.

She’s a figure skater from Sweden and looking at Jay. And I go, I don’t know how the hell I did this for 30 years of my life, you know?

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): Yeah. That’s I can’t imagine. I can’t imagine the dedication it takes to, to be an Olympic athlete.

Speaker 2 (11m 11s): Yes. Period. Did to be an athlete period. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (11m 15s): Yeah. So, yeah, and it, wasn’t a very good one by the way. So you released a new CBD personal loop now, can you share why you wanted to do it? Tell us about the process, the benefits, and also what kind of feedback and lastly, where can I find some of this stuff?

Speaker 2 (11m 37s): All right. So let’s see the reason that I wanted to do it, first of all, was because a lot of people will agree with me. I’m sure. And I’m not gonna ever say names, but there are personal lubricants out there not CBD that gets sticky or they taste funny or they smell funny. And the biggest thing for me is that you’re constantly, at least for me going, where’s the lube, I need more lube and that’s just kind of ruins, ruins the moment. So I wanted to find a product like a coconut oil, because coconut oil is something that does last for a while and doesn’t really have a taste or smell. And then I was at a swingers lifestyle event and next to the bed, they have like lubes and there was a CBD loop and I used it and my orgasm was like so intense, but I didn’t know it was a CBD loop.

So that’s where this all came from. When I turned on the light and I was like, oh my God, what kind of like, that was amazing. I realized what it was. And I decided like, wait a second. I want to venture it onto this project. So that was a two year in the making. And my loop is it’s actually developed in Utah. It is no taste, no spout. Those taste, no smell. Honestly, you can take two pumps, put it next to the bed. You don’t have to touch it again. The only thing is it’s not compatible with latex yet. So one step at a time and it, what

Speaker 1 (12m 43s): Does it do? Melt it.

Speaker 2 (12m 45s): So they say tech, technically coconut oil is not compatible with latex is the deal, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t stain. It says, no that doesn’t injure any, I’ve used it on my toys. I’m good with that. The orgasm is insane for a woman. And so my study more was like, okay, taking it to my swingers events and having my couples try it and giving me feedback. And then we would go back to the company and say, okay, we like it, but it has a little bit of a funny taste or let’s switch this. And so we nailed it. I’m getting great feedback. People love it.

And now I’m working on getting it into different distributors, but I also have a website for it, which is, oh, we were just talking about that. Which one? It’s Jules, J E w E L S C B D lubricant.com for an app.

Speaker 1 (13m 31s): So as if you’re not busy enough, I understand you’re doing that documentary that you talked about. So how did this come about? And maybe you can tell us about the progress.

Speaker 2 (13m 45s): So the documentary after I released the book and it became a number one international bestseller, a lot of people, you know, I always welcome feedback, negative or positive. I think that’s how you improve yourself. I’m working on my second book right now and I’ve taken the feedback from book number one and put that into book number two. So the documentary was, people were saying to me, you should put this into a movie you really, really should. And I think that your viewers will really be able to relate to the, you know, the obstacles and the challenges that you’ve had to overcome in your life to get where you are. And so I have a theater degree, but I don’t have, I don’t have a film degree.

So I looked on Facebook and I reached out to this director in New York city named Kevin Michaels. I was very intrigued by his work and I sent them a copy of my book. And I asked him his honest opinion, like read this book, come back to me and say, this would be the most boring movie in the world. I’m not doing it. Just tell me, don’t let me waste my time. And Kevin said, this is going to be an amazing, amazing story. And so we’ve embarked on this journey and I’m loving every moment of it. I’m loving it. And what’s really neat is a lot of the people that are like playing the cast in my documentary are actually playing themselves.

If that makes any sense. So for example, when I shot my first like major porn scene, which was a reported movie, it was three days on set for wife swinger swap three with Luke Wilder. And Todd hunter was with the right. He was the writer for the ABNs. He was there and he sat next to me on a bench. And he said to me, you know, are you new? And we just, you know, had a conversation. He knew he could tell I was nervous. And so when I put out on Facebook, like, does anybody want to be in this movie? Todd came back and he goes, yeah, if I can be me. So we just shot that scene. So that’s really neat. And when I first started dancing in that strip club that I told you about the owner of that strip club actually plays himself in my documentary where I first came into the club on my first day of work.

So yeah. So it’s really nice. And the, the girl that’s playing the young Cortland, she is actually my ice skating student from Sweden 20 years ago. I started coaching her when she was 10 years old. So she’s 30 years old living in America, studying film, and she portrays me. So I’m having a blast at it. Loving it.

Speaker 1 (15m 51s): Yeah. I can tell, I can tell

Speaker 2 (15m 54s): That you see how excited I am to talk about that. And then you asked me about my website with my lube and I’m like, I’m hating it. Nadian it?

Speaker 1 (16m 0s): Do you sleep by the way? No. Okay. Okay. I was wondering about that as we record this late at night, west coast time. So, and I always do appreciate that by the way, since I’m in Thailand, as you know, so yeah. That’s not a bad life. So you’ve mentioned the second book. What is that going to be about? Give us some, some sort of details.

Speaker 2 (16m 29s): Okay. So what I did is, again, I took the feedback from what people had said to me, people in my, if anybody’s read my book, my book starts out with a journalist that was interviewing me. And then I step in and I finished my book and I started to realize in the feedback was nobody tells your story better than you. So book number two is 100% know written from my perspective. And a lot of people would say to me when they were reading my book, which is an overview of different aspects of my life, working in the porn industry, working in a brothel, ice skating, living in Sweden, living in Germany, married children, you know, all these different things people would say to me, oh, I wish you would have shared more stories about the swinger lifestyle, or I wish you would have shared more stories about the brothel.

So my publisher said to me, we’re going to do a series. So the next book is all about things that I have experienced being a owner of a sweater, lifestyle club, and get 18,000 members now. And you know, the funny stories, the scary stories and that’s yeah. So that’s this one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17m 26s): So it’s only going to be about the swingers club or some of these

Speaker 2 (17m 28s): Things. Nope. Nope. So this one’s just going to focus all on swinger lifestyle. I got more than enough. And then the next one we’ll focus on the brothel. You know,

Speaker 1 (17m 39s): You got it all lined up for the, for the entire, the, the entire series. How many books all together are we going to do?

Speaker 2 (17m 46s): So, so far, I’m just those three right now, the brothel will be one. Swinger will be one. And then, but do you see, when I, when I published my book, which was June 15th, 2020, I didn’t know I was going to be doing a documentary or a podcast. Right. So, and then I didn’t know of all the amazing people that would be bringing his guests on my podcast.

Speaker 1 (18m 6s): Oh, well, thank you all. Well, thank you. I know you’re talking about,

Speaker 2 (18m 10s): I mean, other school people, so yeah. You know, I’ve got my hands on a bunch of different things, but I know what I’m good at. Like I said earlier, I know what I wanted. I want to be able to sit down and finish my book. I want to be able to sit down and write the script for my documentary some more. But when I’m fighting with building a website, hint, if anybody’s listening, reach out to me, please,

Speaker 1 (18m 29s): This is, this is being recorded. This is being recorded in August, by the way. So by that time, I hope you’ll have somebody to, to, to develop it, but

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): Right. I know. So, yeah. So that’s where I’m going right now. I’m working on a documentary, we’re shooting again, middle of September, another 12 scenes. And I wrote seven scenes last night, so

Speaker 1 (18m 51s): Wow. Crazy. Okay. Now the brothel is new to me. I think I know a lot about you, but I don’t remember you mentioning that. So tell us about that aspect of your life. How did you get into it? And tell us, tell us some stories, because I’m sure that’s something everyone would like to hear about that.

Speaker 2 (19m 12s): Yeah, that’s it, everybody said that more on the brothels. So I was actually shooting with Nina Hartley for Nina Hartley seduction and, and on the set, it was a five girl or G scene. And on the set was, I am Sable, Renee and Sable, Renee. And I had met in a different we’d met like, you know, over the phone, never face to face. Okay. And when Sable looked at me, she’s like, you look so familiar. And so we realized, you know, we knew it, we knew who each other were started talking. And I asked her, do you live in LA? And she says, actually, no, I live up in Las Vegas, you know, up in, where was she?

I think she was in Reno at one of the bunny rounds. You know, one of the ranches, the brothels. And I asked her what it was like. And she, you know, she told me and I asked her how you get into that line of work or whatever, how you do it. And so I assembled to thank for, you know, getting me inside. And she got me into the alien cat house

Speaker 1 (20m 0s): And I weren’t familiar with,

Speaker 2 (20m 2s): So the alien cat house, and as you go past Vegas and you go, like, you’re going to go to Pahrump where the what’s that other one called to the left were Omar overdosed, the letter L anyways, you keep going past that. And there was literally, it was our little house next to us was a gas station in the back of the gas station was Phil’s cafe. And across the street was a fireworks place. And that was it. And I did three terms at the brothel. So I would leave my home on a Thursday morning at 6:00 AM, go up there spent Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, Monday night left at 6:00 AM on Tuesday morning, just in time to pick up my kids from school was home Tuesday, Wednesday, and then we’d head out again on Thursday.


Speaker 1 (20m 41s): So how was it? I mean, tell us about it.

Speaker 2 (20m 47s): That was the, some of the script that I wrote last night, positives about the brothel was I never had a negative experience with any of the men and I never had a negative, never. And I actually, I’m still to this day, friends with like clients that came in their friends on social media and stuff. So that was all positive, negative. It’s like living in a sorority house. And I was one of the older women. You do a lot of sitting around because you’re waiting for the doorbell to ring. The doorbell could not ring for 12 hours. And then the other thing is that there’s no shifts.

So they call it sleep pretty. So it’s 3:00 AM in the morning, you’re laying down in bed, you’ve got, you know, lingerie on all your full makeup doorbell rings. You have to get up. And then it’s, you know, some trucker that just wants to have a beer. And you’re like, no, you gotta go back to edit. So, so it’s a lot, you know, there’s no sleep really for five days, but, and I had some create a lot of those. Some of those stories are in my, those are my book, you know, like some of the crazy, crazy requests. One, I’ll tell you one of them. I will shorten it. But tell me more than one you can tell.

Huh? All right. Well, this isn’t, this was an interesting one. So, you know, they’ll, they’ll tell us, you know, our, our drivers driving into Vegas to pick up a high roller coming in tonight. Okay. So now, you know, you’ve got eight girls on alert that, you know, maybe the pretty woman man is going to walk into that home and whatever. So we’re all waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting. And now it’s one in the afternoon, six and PM, 8:00 PM, 11:00 PM. The guy in there. So slowly, the girls are like, screw this and they’re all going to bed. And it was just really like two of us and about 2:00 AM we all me and the other girl went to bed.

And then the bell rang at like three 30 in the morning and only her and I got up, nobody else got up. So he had finally arrived and he chose me. And, you know, I said, would you like a tour? And he says, I’ve been here before. I don’t need a tour. So you want to sit at the bar, do you want to go talk whatever? And so we sat at the bar and then you’re not allowed to do what to discuss the party in the parlor. So you have to take them to your room. So we go to the room and he says to me, so do you like role-play? And I said, yeah. I mean, I liked role play just depends what you’re looking for. And he says, do you like, like, like, like children, like baby role-play and all I could think in my head was like, no, this guy’s a pedophile crap.

What am I going to do? You know? And I said, well, you have to elaborate. Like, what are you looking for? And he says, do you like diaper play? Now I went from pedophile to all my God, he’s going to make me change his crappy diapers. Like, where is this going? And why did I pick me? You know? And finally I got him to, I just kind of said to him, I said, listen, it’s four o’clock in the morning. My brain’s not really working. Like, you just gotta tell him exactly what you want. And he says, I just want to roll around on the floor, wear diapers, play with rattles, play with stuffed animals, choo two trains and just giggle and laugh and be kids. And I’m like, anything else? And he’s like, no, that’s it.

And I’m like, no sex, no nothing. And he’s like, no, no, no, just that. And I’m like, well, how long do you want to do it for it’s four o’clock in the morning. And he says, oh, 24 hours. So yeah. So once you agree on a price, you go out to the house, mom, you do, you know, you pay and then you go back and then you’re not supposed to discuss with the girls. Of course, you know what your session was. So the next day, all the girls to, you know, the high roller finally came in, right? They’re all like, come on Coraline, come on, Carlin. What did you charge him? What did you do? And I just would like smile and laugh. And I’m like, you guys have, you’ll never guess in a million years, you will never guess that I was playing with you to drains on the floor last night or this morning.


Speaker 1 (24m 2s): I think the two, two

Speaker 2 (24m 4s): Trains, or did he? No, no. Oh no, sweetheart. He brought, he had a whole bag. He brought, he told me he brought a whole bag of toys. We had, we had pacifiers. We had bottles. Yeah. Rattles. We had rattles. So yeah. I mean, that’s, it’s kind of like the swinger lifestyle. People really think that, you know, that it’s all about, you know, a husband and wife or a boyfriend and girlfriend just go to a party and you’ve got free rein and you pick another couple and you fuck them. And that’s not really what the lifestyle is about. People think that, you know, when you work at a brothel, majority of the guys that come in, they’re going to pay you for sex.

And that’s what they want. You know, in my experience at the brothel, the only two of them were sexual experiences. Other ones I swear to you, the other ones were more like random fantasies or cuddling. One guy wanted to just one. I just, we did, we did dog play that’s in my book too. Like he would say that he would say like, oh, that’s a good little girl. That’s my good little doggy. And he’s like, oh yeah, shake, shake, shake. You want to shake? And I was like, oh my God, I can’t believe I’m doing this. But that was his thing.

So yeah,

Speaker 1 (25m 5s): 24 hours cost.

Speaker 2 (25m 8s): So everybody, you do your own prices. Okay. So you make the decision, what you want to charge and everything that you make, 50% of what you make goes to the house. Even if you go to your room and at the end, they tip you. If they tip you, you better be honest and go to the house and say, I got tipped a hundred bucks or whatever. Cause Dennis Hoff would send in spies. Even if you gave a tour, like if somebody came and they said, I just want to tour. Like sometimes we’d get little old ladies. You know, they just wanted the tour. And if they gave me $20 for the tour, I have to go to the front desk or the mom and say, okay, they tipped me $20.

And then I get 10. So yeah. So when you

Speaker 1 (25m 43s): Decide your own,

Speaker 2 (25m 45s): Yeah, that was Dennis hospitals. And it was actually interesting because I was one of the girls that didn’t live there full time. Every single time I arrived at the house and that the house mom would say, daddy’s not coming this weekend. So you get daddy’s room. So already the bitches hated me. Cause they were like, this freaking girl always gets like the king suite room, you know, always had daddy’s room. I had the best room in the house, his room. Yeah. It’s like his room. If he comes to stay there that’s daddy’s room. But every time I went and he didn’t stay there. So I got daddy’s room.

Speaker 1 (26m 11s): Interesting. Interesting. What, what, tell him, tell me another weird story from there. I I’m fascinated now. Cause that, cause I just, I just thought you’d go in those places to fuck girls. Cause that’s all I ever did when I was single. So

Speaker 2 (26m 22s): Yeah. Now you see it so different. Okay. Let’s see. I’m only sharing the ones that are in my book cause I’m saving or that might in my first series because I don’t want to ruin my second book, but right. The brothels in the third book, another one that was interesting was, you know, there was Periscope. I know some people that have still do do Periscope, but it was one of the mornings at the brothel. I was on live on Periscope and I was dressing up and like country country off of Jean shorts or whatever. And I was just asking my fans, like you guys like this outfit or this outfit and they were like, you really need a hat Corlon and I’m like, I didn’t pack. I didn’t pack a cowboy hat.

You know? So whatever the day goes on and the doorbell rings and we all go line up and this guy comes to the door and he says, oh, I’m just here for court. Oh no, that’s what happened on Periscope. This guy said, Corlon you need a hat, I’ll bring you a hat. Right. And I go, oh, okay, sure. I’ll I can’t wait to see my hat. Remember I’m in the middle of fricking nowhere. I’m in area 51 with a gas station, Phil’s cafe, whatever. And this guy says, he’s going to give her me a hat. And sure enough, the doorbell rings like three hours later and we line up and the guy says, I’m just here for Cortland and all the other girls get pissed.

And I look at him and he’s got a hat in his hands and I’m just, I was in shock and I was like, shut up, shut up. Like where the hell were you? So it turns out he’s a trucker and he was sleeping in our lots. And then, and then he realized that I was in that brothel. So he came in, gave me his hat, which I still have today. I still have his hat. And he ended up spending the whole day. He just said like, how much does by you for the day? So you don’t have to line up and then we can just talk and cuddle for the whole day at night. So, and we’re still friends.

I think I can say his name, but I won’t say his whole profile. And then, but it’s one, one, man, something that’s on the side and to this day still friends. So, I mean, I met some really, really cool people.

Speaker 1 (28m 8s): I guess I was one of the weird ones and wanted sex. Okay. So I also heard you’re developing a swinger lifestyle card game. So what made you want to do this and tell us more about it and where people can find it.

Speaker 2 (28m 26s): Okay. So this is where your lifestyle game came because whenever I’m at my part, like I host weekend events. So I usually do like Friday night is game night and I tell my guests, you know, bring twister, bring cards of humanity, bring something that you guys can share with each other and you actually can meet everybody else. That’s at the parties have Friday nights, game nights, Saturdays pool party with prizes. And Saturday nights like I’ll do entertainment or whatever. And so what I noticed is that like there, they only really had cards of humanity. So there’s 24 hotel rooms and you’d go to everybody’s room and I’m like, what’d you guys bring in?

They’re like cards of humanity. And I’m like, okay, that’s pretty three what’d you guys bring cards of humanity. And so I was like, dude, like there’s nothing else out there. Right. So I decided to come up with something that was like truth or dare with a twist is what I do and different levels. And it’s very simple to follow. You know, you can be drunk and you can still follow it. And it’s not crazy naughty. It’s got, you know, you can choose and you can always say no, of course, but yeah. And that game again, they can just go directly to easiest would probably just to me to correlate my website, C O R a L Y N Juul, J E w E l.com.

And then they go buy the game from me. They’re my contacted me or the Juul CBD lubricant. We’re working on doing this whole new website as you know, this is my dilemma. This is my dilemma of the week.

Speaker 1 (29m 45s): It’ll all work out my dare. We were talking off. We were talking off air about that. So what else are you working on? I know there’s got to be more core

Speaker 2 (29m 56s): There will there. I know. Let’s see. Okay. So I’ve got my hanky panky podcast with my guests and I have my weekly blogs that correlate with that. The documentary, the CBD lube, the swinger lifestyle game. The second book, my, I run my swingers events. I’ve got an event on Saturday. I’ve got the third book and then this week there’s events and then weddings wedding season is back in full swing now. And gosh, tell me that that’s everything right. I own a mobile fitness company for children too, but I’ve had to put that one on the bank. Back-burner I can’t do everything.

Speaker 1 (30m 28s): Yeah. I’m crushed. I’m crushed. I’m completely, I’m completely crushed when coral and Juul says I cannot to everything. That’s right. That’s wow. That’s amazing. So tell us how the podcast is going. Maybe you can tell me about some upcoming guests that would interest me.

Speaker 2 (30m 50s): All right. So let’s see. So the podcast is called to get the hanky-panky podcast and what it is. It’s not just focused. So there’s a lot of podcasts out there that just focus on the, you know, adult performers. And then there’s some that just focus on swinger couples. So I kind of, I want my, what am I going to be different? I wanted mine to just be a sex positive podcast where our listeners can learn about the lifestyle’s swinger lifestyle, but also polyamory the BDSM world pro Dom’s erotic writers, you know, sex therapists, relationship coaches.

One of my most interesting for me was a Dr. Perry was a Dr. Perry was studying to be a priest and almost was there like ready to go and decided he’s going to turn around and become a doctor and study sex therapy and then teach sex educational DVDs. He makes them, and he actually films with the camera and it’s actually like sex. In other words, it’s like, what the

Speaker 1 (31m 47s): Hell? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31m 49s): So I’ve had some really, really cool guests. I had a Dr. Lee Phillips he’s he’s amazing LA kink shrink. He focuses on couples that come to him or people that come to him and have different kinks or fantasies or fetishes where they think that, you know, other therapists tell them, well, there’s something wrong with you where LA kink shrinks says, no, there’s nothing wrong with you. You know, and stuff like that. And then, okay, who do I have coming up? Let me think. Oh, I just interviewed, oh, this is kind of cool. Okay. So Eric Monte was an adult performer and he’s now 70 something years old and he got out.

So he was just a guest teaching me all about the golden era I had Sharon Mitchell was on.

Speaker 1 (32m 31s): Who else? Oh, the widow of the Mitchell brother.

Speaker 2 (32m 34s): No, Sharon Sharon Mitchell was the adult performer. Like she was really, yeah. The hub. Remember she’s developed. She started aim. And then now she works with children with, you know, teenagers with drug addiction. I had, what was it? Oh gosh. Oh, how we Gordon also known as Richard Pacheco and he was also an adult performer and he wrote a 700 page book and would be Goldberg, right. Would be Goldberg wrote the, a prelude.

Speaker 1 (33m 6s): No,

Speaker 2 (33m 6s): But she’s his neighbor. And I was like, oh my God, I want to go meet with me. So Right. And then who else do I have coming up? Herschel Savage and other adult performer. I just had an erotic author. I released her today and I have a swinger lifestyle club owner, but he has a twist. He is a club that actually allows bisexual males. Would, you would think in the swinger lifestyle community that we would welcome anybody, you know, that’s, what’s supposed to be, you’re supposed to welcome your open. You would hope so. And there are so many clubs that will turn away a couple because the male half is bisexual, but the woman can be bisexual.

And that to me is bullshit. And so he saw a need for that. Exactly. So the podcast, it’s really neat if I’m having a good time with it and having a good time with writing the articles to correlate with that. And I forgot to

Speaker 1 (33m 51s): Tell you my

Speaker 2 (33m 52s): Dear, I don’t know. I also work. I forgot to tell you. I’m also a chat agent for Dr. Susie’s Institute. So just on top of all of that,

Speaker 1 (34m 1s): You do that in your spare time. So you’re still shooting content. I know. Where can we find your latest content?

Speaker 2 (34m 11s): Okay. So I’m my only fans is pretty easy. It’s just only fans backslash coral and Juul. So that’s C O R a L Y N. I always tell people think of the oral. So oral and then out of seeing the beginnings, it’s coral and Juul, and then a loyal fans. I really liked their platform. Same thing, Cortland jewel, many vids is the coral and Juul. And then I have a porn hub page. Don’t go to PornHub, you guys. Cause it doesn’t do anything for us. And ultimately, as you know, my goal is to have one website where you can go to get my game, my book, my, my films, you know, my blogs, everything in one location

Speaker 1 (34m 47s): Soon coming soon when it’s all, when it’s all ready, which hopefully it will be by the time this actually drops all, all announce it. Now along with everything you’re doing, I guess you’re still hosting the swingers events and working as a wedding planner. So my question for you always is going to be, what do you do in your spare time?

Speaker 2 (35m 13s): I really don’t have, yeah, right. I know. I don’t, you know, like we went to, I went to Las Vegas last weekend, but that was for work. But then I’m, you know, I do have some free time or whatever. And I went to my girlfriend’s house today to get nails done. And then we hang out

Speaker 1 (35m 26s): All your nails. They’re lovely.

Speaker 2 (35m 28s): Right. But you see, because I hung out with her. I screwed up my evening cause I was, I had so much I was supposed to do tonight, but she wouldn’t let me go. I don’t, I don’t like I don’t don’t watch TV. I don’t watch movies. I’ve only read half a Dick troubles book. I haven’t even started. They who interviewed me. It was, it was a comedians interviewing porn stars at exotica. And we traded books. He finished mine. I haven’t started his. And then what’s his name? It’s Richard Pachecos book. The one they told you, it’s 700 pages. I’m a hundred pages in.

So I just, I don’t have a lot of time. You know, I work til probably three in the morning. Then I go to sleep and get up at eight and start again.

Speaker 1 (36m 6s): And I have two kids

Speaker 2 (36m 7s): Too.

Speaker 1 (36m 8s): Yeah. That’s right now. I understand at exotica you made some contacts that may lead distill another future project. Which one is that?

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): Are you referring to the doll? I

Speaker 1 (36m 20s): Oh, yes, yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36m 23s): Yes. We’re falling up on that one right now. So I, that was only dolls came to me about working with them.

Speaker 1 (36m 29s): Well, only dolls is that like only fans?

Speaker 2 (36m 32s): No. So only dolls they’ll actually create a coral and jewel Juul doll. All Right. Yeah. So, well you have to tell them, you see, this is the thing. So they came to me and now they’re like, I don’t know. I don’t know if they fell off the earth, but I don’t know what happened. I made a lot of context for shooting content there. I can’t even remember. You’re so busy. You’re talking to so many people and so many business cards here and there. And then you just got to come home and kind of go through everything, you know?

Speaker 1 (37m 3s): Well, I’m looking forward to that doll coming out for sure. Now,

Speaker 2 (37m 6s): So you have to write them and tell them I’d like a coral and Juul doll, please.

Speaker 1 (37m 10s): Okay. You need to, you know, when we get done here, you can give me the information. Now on your website and podcast site, I see release a weekly blog entry. Where do you find the time to write a blog post? When your guest is discussing a topic, you might not be very familiar with, for instance, website brokering, where else are you posting your blogs?

Speaker 2 (37m 36s): So it’s interesting because sometimes I say to myself, like, crap, why did we include logs? Right. Cause that’s, it’s another thing for me to have to do. But what did, what it does do is that when I’m interviewing a guest that I don’t maybe understand the world so much like a femdom or a dominatrix, it, you know, it, it forces me to go and research that so that I’m more prepared for my interview. And then with my blogs, I have found a way to do them. I voiced texts into my cell phone and then I email it over to my computer and then I drop it into Grammarly to fix all my awful spelling or whatever.

And then I put it on. So it goes onto the hanky-panky podcast to correlate with the guest and then I’m also putting them on sexpert. And then I’m also putting them on medium now as well.

Speaker 1 (38m 18s): Oh, and medium. Rarely I have S I have a subscription to that.

Speaker 2 (38m 22s): Oh, go follow me.

Speaker 1 (38m 23s): Oh, okay. No, I most certainly will. You got to remind me, you remind me of that one too, when we get done.

Speaker 2 (38m 29s): Right. I know. I know. And then, and then there was some other sites that I had also like, you know, started like there’s some swinger sites, SDC, and you know, they were training me how to put them on there. But as I said, Cortland is admitting it, you can’t can’t do everything. So I have to, I actually have my seven year old son

Speaker 1 (38m 46s): Actually said that twice.

Speaker 2 (38m 48s): I know I have to tell myself that coral and you can’t do everything

Speaker 1 (38m 53s): Now. You know, you’re obviously being, being a sex worker and having a family. How, I mean, how is that? I would imagine your kids know what you do.

Speaker 2 (39m 4s): Yes. How do

Speaker 1 (39m 5s): You, how do you, how do you deal with that?

Speaker 2 (39m 7s): Well, it’s exactly why I tell people in my, anybody that I meet who’s in the adult industry, or if my blogs talk about this a lot, if you think for a second that you can just do webcamming and that nobody’s going to find out, or you can just shoot one porn and no one’s going to find out, guess what they’re going to find out. Okay. So if you’re going to go into this industry, you go into this industry and you go in it with an attitude of, so, you know, I’m not hurting anybody and this is who I am. Right. Because I, a lot of people at exotica were like, don’t tag me on Facebook because people don’t know about me on Facebook. And I’m like, oh, they know, okay.

They know. So my children, they found out my, again, I was, I was one that was hiding it. And when you’re hiding, when you’re hiding it, it’s just an awful, awful feeling. And

Speaker 1 (39m 50s): I would have to feel terrible.

Speaker 2 (39m 52s): It’s an awful feeling because you can’t really tell the truth. Right. So I would, you know, I couldn’t tell my parents, you know, why I was going to be in LA, you know, right minds. Couldn’t tell my ex-husband why I needed to keep him late for him to keep the kids late or whatever. But ultimately what happened was my older sister, our older, my younger sister, she was 19. She found my Instagram. And instead of, instead of contacting me and being like, Hey, what is this? She contacted my brother. Who’s five years younger than me. And instead of right, and instead of him saying to her, like, hold on, let’s call her sister. They called my dad.

So then my dad called me and said, you know, you’re out of the family and blah, blah, blah. And while I’m crying and talking to him, my 14 year old son walks in and asks, what’s going on and now he’s heard the whole conversation. And so boom, it’s out there. So I then had to call my mom and say, okay, listen, here’s the deal. But you know, what’s so nice is now everybody, everybody knows my swinger community knows the kids know, everybody knows there’s no secrets or anything, you know? And the other thing that it’s done, at least for me is my kids. My kids know you can come and talk to me about anything, right?

Like anything, you know, and, and I’m going to advise you and I’m going to help you and keep you safe. And so it’s really, it’s really, really, really, really refreshing. I bet it is.

Speaker 1 (41m 3s): I bet my dogs know what I do by the way, just to let you know, I’ve told off, I’ve told all four of them and you know, they, they, they, they sometimes, you know, one wags his tail and then the other one just kind of looks at me sideways. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (41m 18s): So here’s, here’s something interesting to tell you. So I just had an author on my podcast on Monday and she couldn’t be on camera for video. Okay. She couldn’t do YouTube, just audio. And she said, because just because she writes a Roddick books, she also does mainstream writing journalism and stuff like that. And when I was writing my correlation or my blog about her, you know, and it wasn’t against her, it was just saying, I can’t believe we’re still in this, you know, judgment that she’s not even having sex on camera or anything, but she’s a writer.

And she has to hide the fact that she writes erotic books,

Speaker 1 (41m 51s): The 21 in the United States, in the United States of America. Although I won’t even get into the politics of that, but I’ll, I’ll, I’ll let, I’ll just, I’ll let Mr. McGrady do that. When, when you hear this podcast,

Speaker 2 (42m 6s): It’s crazy. But like, you know, so remember now my, my, my, my family knows, they know I worked in a brothel, they know everything. So my father reads my book. Okay. And now he won’t talk to me. I’m like, wait a second. I published a number one international bestselling book. That’s dedicated to you. You already knew everything in it, but you won’t talk to me. And my mom’s the opposite. She’s like, I’m loving these podcasts. How do I get in touch with king B? I like him. You know, it’s so funny.

Speaker 1 (42m 29s): Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, your dad will come around. I’m sure.

Speaker 2 (42m 35s): Well, we hope so. We hope so, but that’s what my, you know, my whole, my whole goal and motivational speaking and everything is like, you have one life to live, live it for you. You’re not hurting anybody be you because you don’t want to be a 70 year old divorce person that comes out of this awful marriage. And you say, God, I wish I would have done this, this and that. So don’t, don’t wait until it’s too late. Just do it. Just don’t hurt anybody.

Speaker 1 (42m 54s): Thanksgiving must be interesting. I just have one more question. Yes. How many new ideas do you get a day?

Speaker 2 (43m 4s): A lot. And I have a hard time sleeping. So I have to keep like my phone’s next to the bed so that if I have an ID, even sometimes I’ll write part of my script or my chapter of my book in my head. And so I have to actually get up and dictate it to my phone so I can go to sleep. I’m a Scorpio type, a personality. So

Speaker 1 (43m 22s): That’s why we get along so well. When’s your birthday? October 24th. Oh,

Speaker 2 (43m 27s): That’s probably we share a birthday.

Speaker 1 (43m 29s): I forgot. No, I didn’t know that.

Speaker 2 (43m 32s): Wait, I didn’t know. I don’t know if I knew that either we share a birthday on October 24th. That’s why we get along. So I’ll help him.

Speaker 1 (43m 38s): Wow. Maybe October 24th. We’ll have to celebrate somewhere anyway.

Speaker 2 (43m 41s): In New Jersey, New Jersey exotica. Okay.

Speaker 1 (43m 45s): Well, I will see what I can do. If, if they, if they finish a quarantine here before then maybe I’ll come out. It would be, it would be great to celebrate

Speaker 2 (43m 56s): No in figures, in figure skating, we call it alpha beta gamma, Delta. Those are the levels. So I just figured we skipped alpha beta gamma. We’re in Delta, right? So we’re moving along,

Speaker 1 (44m 8s): Comes to an end soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 10s): I hope so. Fingers crossed

Speaker 1 (44m 11s): Well, Coralyn I’d like to, once again, thank you for being our guest on adult side, broker talk and being our returning champion. And I hope pool. I know we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 23s): Thank you for having me. Look, you guys, we just chatted for an hour. Look at us. We’re crazy, huh?

Speaker 1 (44m 27s): We are crazy by broker tip. Today is part four of what to do to make your site valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your website, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable for when it comes time to sell it. Trademarking, our site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers waves. You feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends.

If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or view porn, be creative, not just one of the many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site.

Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to social media guru, Jason Hunt. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Coralyn Jewel. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Bruce Friedman (6s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with

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Bruce Friedman (1m 40s):
Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. The first NSFW social media platform in the world. The web app benefits from innovative technologies that enable almost a million members to instantly share their sexy photos and videos via computer or mobile. Today, the site has more than 200 new members signing up daily with zero spent on marketing. These leads are essentially coming from organic SEO word of mouth and premium backlinks. The site has received great articles in top magazines, such as Playboy daily dot refinery, 29 and more in 2019, the site started recurring subscriptions, which made it a more private platform since only registered members now have access to the content while it impacted the traffic on the platform.

Bruce Friedman (2m 32s):
The user base is now very valuable as the site only accepts verified users. There are now over 60,000 active members. Average time on the site is over 10 minutes. The site, as a team of four super users moderating the platform to ensure there’s no illegal content among the photos and videos. Also there’s a report feature so that every member can report content that might infringe on someone’s rights. The site gets most of its traffic from the USA, Brazil, Mexico, France, and Spain now reduced to only 495,000 us dollars. Now time for this week’s interview.

Bruce Friedman (3m 12s):
My guest today on adult side broker talk is Morgan summer Morgan. Thanks for being with us again here on adult side broker talk.

Morgan Sommer (3m 19s):
It is my pleasure, Bruce. Thanks for having me great

Bruce Friedman (3m 22s):
To have you back now, Morgan, if you didn’t know, as a 25 year adult industry veteran, he actually started when he was five. He was the co-founder and former owner of cyber socket. He’s a legendary figure in our industry, especially in the LGBTQ portion of the industry. Now the formation of cyber socket parties at major trade shows, at least in my opinion, did a great job of bringing the gay and the straight sides of the industry together, like never before. So Morgan, you’ve had some changes in your career. What happened with you in cyber socket? Yeah,

Morgan Sommer (3m 55s):
So a cyber sockets still exists. We reached a point a couple of years ago, my business partner, Tim and I were, we both needed to evolve and we both needed to change. And Tim really wasn’t interested in the day-to-day operations of the company anymore, and I kind of needed some new intellectual experiences as well. So we kind of both left the day-to-day operation to our staff. And I went and pursued a couple of outside interests in mainstream marketing, just so I could learn some new tools and tactics and see how the rest of the world was doing things that I was interested in.

Morgan Sommer (4m 35s):
And, you know, that was fine. We were contented to leave things that way. And, you know, we were each giving about five to 10 hours a week and cyber cycle was so growing, but then Tim got a diagnosis with a very bad kind of brain cancer last November. And then I started talking with the folks here at Doclar in January, but possibly coming on and taking on a role. And we, over a course of five or six months, we continued to talk and it just kind of all worked out at the same time that literally at around the same time that Doppler and I were coming to a conclusion of that discussion, an offer came from the folks that now own flesh bought and, and they made an offer that we couldn’t say no to, to acquire cyber socket in all of its assets, all of the trademarks, everything, because they had a vision for taking it for the next, you know, to its next level that we did not have.

Morgan Sommer (5m 39s):
And, you know, as a, as someone who built a business and really cared about it, I, I didn’t have that vision anymore. Sure. To be honest. And, and when someone comes along and has a vision for that thing, that can take it to a place that you can’t, it’s the best thing for it. You know, if you like a child, right. You care about it and you want it to grow. So really it was really, it’s an amazing thing because the, the folks that have taken it over really have some great plans for it. And a former editor in chief of ours, Alexander, he is now back in charge of the whole thing. Again, he had ideas when he was our editor that we did not let him do because we were just out of, out of energy to tell you the truth.

Morgan Sommer (6m 20s):
Sure. And, and now he gets to do all of those great things. So I look forward to showing up in a cyber socket award show, perhaps next spring as a guest for the first time. So anyway, and you know, and this has also given Tim the time he needs to just focus on his health and recovery. So

Bruce Friedman (6m 42s):
Let’s transition to that. How is he doing

Morgan Sommer (6m 45s):
To be totally honest, not well, he is deteriorating and you know, the best case scenario for a lot of people with this type of cancer is that they may live two to five years. We don’t have any idea how long Tim has, but, you know, overall his health is not good. And at this point, everybody, the doctors are just trying to keep them comfortable and keep him in his home. And that’s, that’s kind of where we’re at. So he has a big group of friends in Southern California. They’re coming to take care of him. And so he is being cared for and his family is coming to visit him. And he and I talk about once every two weeks.

Morgan Sommer (7m 27s):
It’s, it’s all, it’s what it is right now. Yeah.

Bruce Friedman (7m 30s):
That’s really sad. Now, now you, you, you spoke of the cyber socket awards. That’s gotta be something that you started at that’s really gratifying cause that’s turned into something amazing.

Morgan Sommer (7m 41s):
Yeah. You know, we started that. I think it was the last awards show we did in 2019 was our 21st Howard. So wow. And I think we started that as a way to just find out what surfers liked because everybody had all of these theories about what web surfers thought was important, but no one was really doing good surveys. And so we started that whole process as just a way to get our readers, to tell us what they actually liked. And, and that’s why it turned into the popularity contest version of an awards show where we just let surfers, we threw a thousand things up on the wall and that the surfers pick and, and it was in, then it would just became a way to kind of constantly gauge the, the changing patterns of, of surfer behavior and surfer interest in stuff.

Bruce Friedman (8m 37s):
Now, obviously you mentioned the, the job change going to Doppler. Why don’t you, why don’t you tell us about that? Tell us about how you started talking to them and about, about the gig.

Morgan Sommer (8m 55s):
So I’ve had a long relationship with the company when they first came upon, you know, the, the industry community at trade shows back in 2003 or 2004, we connected with them. We became a partner with them on several things. They started sponsoring separate circuit events. We became an affiliate of theirs cause they had a gay site way back when, and you know, we had an ongoing cordial relationship for many, many years. And, and then at one time, one of our salespeople went to work for them. So there’s just been a long back and forth, you know, thing. That was where it was for many, many years.

Morgan Sommer (9m 36s):
And in January I got a message from the current CEO, Krista for Anderson, who is someone I knew socially in Los Angeles through other friends, he wasn’t part of the industry. And he said, Hey Morgan, how you doing? It’s been a long time. Guess what? I worked for Doppler and Luxembourg now. And I went, that’s an interesting story. So tell me how you got there. And he told me how it happened that, you know, mutual friends introduced him to them. And they were looking for someone to come on board as the chief product officer. And so eventually Chris and his partner, Marie, they, they were moved to Luxembourg.

Morgan Sommer (10m 20s):
And Chris check on the role as, as chief product officer and Chris originally had started talking to me about coming on board to help them build out their LGBT hue division. And as the head of product for that division Chris’s role changed in April, he was appointed the new CEO of Jasmine holding. And, and as a result of that, then the, the discussion about what role I might take changed from being the head of product of that LGBT division to possibly taking on a role as a senior vice president, kind of overseeing multiple divisions. And, and at the same time building out that LGBTQ division, you know, the role was kind of the role of a lifetime.

Morgan Sommer (11m 6s):
Really. It’s utilizing all the skills I’ve ever developed and then being challenged to do something more. And because this organization is infinitely larger than I ever really thought it was. And you know, they’re big, they’re big, right? And it’s, it’s huge. And there are 1800 employees across multiple countries and there’s a thousand moving parts and all times. And so I, you know, and I’ve expressed it to Mr. Garcia, I’m the founder. I am, I’m really grateful to have this role because it’s really, it’s challenging every day. It’s challenging in a really great and exciting way. And, and we’ve managed to be able to bring on board Carl Edwards and other industry veteran as the, as the head of product for that LGBTQ.

Morgan Sommer (11m 54s):
That’s cool. He’s running with that and expect some really great new, new things to come out around the time of the, why not camel wards in October, we’ll be, we’ll be launching our new gay brand at that point and with some prototype stuff for that, for that event. And then by the time we get to the shows in January, we should have be much further along with that process, but, and then we’ve also hired shisha. LaRue is our brand ambassador and model recruiter. I saw that too. That’s great. And, and we’ll be bringing on some more people that you will know their names sooner than later you will here. That’s awesome.

Bruce Friedman (12m 34s):
That’s awesome. Well, Carl’s, Carl’s amazing. And he’s a, he’s been a guest on, on the podcast, as you may know, and yeah, Carl’s, Carl’s incredible.

Morgan Sommer (12m 45s):
I think eventually you should have him back because he’s got, he’s got the visit to take that new division in really amazing places. So you should consider him again. But yeah, so it’s just, it’s a really exciting place to be. There is a really wonderful full leadership team here at Doppler and there’s some of the smartest people I’ve ever encountered from anywhere are all assembled in this organization. And just a lot of really great things going on.

Bruce Friedman (13m 16s):
That sounds fantastic. So talk to me a little bit about your day-to-day duties there.

Morgan Sommer (13m 22s):
He laughs drinking out of a fire hose out of high, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to take a sip out of a fire hose. It’s really, I mean, when I’m at home in Kansas, I start my days at 5:00 AM. I get online and start with my first team’s calls at five 30. And I run at a full sprint until basically 10:00 AM my time. And then things start to taper off by 11 when everybody in Luxembourg is home, but those first five hours of the day are intense.

Morgan Sommer (14m 3s):
And cause I’m basically trying to compress a full day communication with everybody here or in the Budapest office, into those few hours, timeframe for a nap at that point. Right. Then it’s time for a quick nap. And then I start working with Carl and everybody in north America. Sure. And we are, we’re hiring people all over the place. We’re trying to build out our north American dev team as well as the LGBT Q group, mostly in north America as well. So there’s just, you know, every day we’re doing a whole thing of interviewing people as well as work.

Morgan Sommer (14m 43s):
And a lot of that just requires time talking to each other. And so that’s kinda, and then by two or three o’clock, I officially completely wiped out and I need to go lay down. And then I, you know, I’m asleep by 10 30 at night and I start over again and that’s, you know, that’s my workweek, but it’s, but you know, it’s just, it’s really wonderful because I think, you know, the language of the company is English, but it’s, but the people of the company are from all over the earth and it’s, and it’s really, it’s really kind of amazing. That’s always what

Bruce Friedman (15m 20s):
Really cool because, because of the diversity of people from all over the, all over the world

Morgan Sommer (15m 26s):
Yeah. There’s, there’s a diversity of experience and perspective that is challenging. Right. And it is that assumptions that I might have and conclusions I may reach all by myself are, are being challenged, but in the best possible way all the time. That’s great. A

Bruce Friedman (15m 44s):
Lot of personal growth

Morgan Sommer (15m 45s):
Then. Yeah, I think so. I hope so. Yeah. Great.

Bruce Friedman (15m 48s):
So what, what else is new over at Jasmine Doclar AWM park?

Morgan Sommer (15m 54s):
Well at AWS, part of the new things are that we have new leadership there. A guy named Esteban Powell is the new head of sales and head of product there. He’s been on the team for a number of years and he is now he’s got a vision of where to take the team and where to take the program. They are working on new affiliate tools for all of the sites. We have the adult sites, as well as non adult sites. One of the big ones is the random site, which is the psychic slash esoteric site. It’s huge. I had it.

Morgan Sommer (16m 35s):
I didn’t even know it existed honestly until coming on board, but it’s actually really huge. And they’re planning to grow that as well. We have a whole, a series of mainstream websites also that are being managed by a team member from that lives in New York. And, and there’s a whole development group that’s dedicated just to those products. And at the moment we’re also engaged in, you know, looking at opportunities for investment in other businesses related to the industry. And even some that are not really part of the industry just to grow the diversity of the things that we’re doing as a company.

Morgan Sommer (17m 19s):
We’ll talk more. So

Bruce Friedman (17m 24s):
I always love hearing that,

Morgan Sommer (17m 27s):
But that’s, and that’s just kind of, you know, the company is, is growing. The company is thriving and it’s, we’re focusing on the core businesses of course, and trying to make things better. There is a large development team here, really great experts, and we’re always trying to improve live Jasmine bam, bam, and you know, and the other core products. Hmm. As evidence just by the investment alone that their, their company is making in building out a really solid LGBTQ group. So once we’ve got the new gay site launch, then we’ll revamp the trans site. And in both of those cases, we’re looking at building much more than a cam site, we’re building community sites.

Bruce Friedman (18m 11s):
So tell me more about the, about the gained and trans sites that are coming up,

Morgan Sommer (18m 19s):
The new gaze site, whose name I’ll keep secret for now. Okay. So we’re ready to put that out. It’s basically gonna, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a gay community platform that has a camp site backbone. Okay. And so, but it’s just gonna be a whole lot more than just simply a campsite. That’s really the goal. And the company overall has a mission of elevating sex and sexuality out of the shadows and into the light is for, for lack of a better concert better. Right. So we’re basically trying to just elevate human sexuality altogether and, and be sex positive and, and make it something people can be proud of, you know, regardless of their, of that, of their expression of that.

Morgan Sommer (19m 15s):
So I think that’s kind of the philosophical underpinning of all of the things we’re doing is we’re trying to just show each community that it’s supported and we’ll be moving into the fetish community as well. And so I think we’re, we’re seeing these things as more like specialty sites rather than, rather than calling them niche products. We’re just going to be moving into kind of a specialty division where each, each community that we decide to serve is going to be get the proper focus. That’s cool.

Bruce Friedman (19m 47s):
Now, now what about the, what about the Tran site? Is that something new?

Morgan Sommer (19m 52s):
There has been a trans site for many years. Okay. It just hasn’t really been well developed. Trans models are already on live. Jasmine they’ve always been there. And then there was sort of a white label version of the site that was segmented out as a trans site, but it’s never really been properly developed or promoted. So rather than just continuing to push that white label version of the site, we’ll be building a unique product for the trans community. And for people that like trans models

Bruce Friedman (20m 26s):
Now, besides adding new personnel, what else is going on with the new LGBTQ team?

Morgan Sommer (20m 33s):
Lots of conversations, you know, Carl and I talk, Carl has, was here in Luxembourg and then in Budapest with us also for the last a week or two, he just went home to Toronto today. So we’ve had a lot of meetings and a lot of conversations about where we want to go and specific details and features and how to get them built and what the timelines are. And that’s kind of where we are at this point. It’s, it’s the planning and development phase of things, which just requires a lot of communication with developers and, and the team.

Bruce Friedman (21m 8s):
Now you mentioned you’re planning on bringing in some other people besides Carl, any that you can mention

Morgan Sommer (21m 16s):
Not right now, but as soon as, but as soon as it’s time, I’ll make sure that you get that press release.

Bruce Friedman (21m 23s):
Yeah. Sounds good. Sounds good. Now, how has the gay adult industry changed compared to where it was when you first started in the industry?

Morgan Sommer (21m 32s):
I mean, you know, in 19 96, 97, there were a thousand gay sites in the world. We did when we did our first survey of websites. There were literally about a thousand by 98 that were about 2009 by 2000, the year 2000, there were tens of thousands. And, and on the adult side, there were a handful of mega sites. And then there were lots and lots of small sites. The mega sites died out and now, but the industry has been going through a consolidation period again. So I think there’s still room for small sites to enter the industry for new startups.

Morgan Sommer (22m 15s):
But the game for many years has been about how are you going to get traffic? And the traffic market is so locked up by big companies, you know, big aggregators and then big companies having huge spends that that’s the, that’s the unique challenge for gay companies. And I think, you know, my company Carl’s company and others, the only way we are ever survived was by building our own traffic networks, our own traffic funnels. Yeah. Because we could never compete with the big guys on the traffic buys. We could never compete enough to really get the decent traffic that’s available out there. Right. So we had to build our own and I think that’s still true for the majority of the gig industry sites out there.

Morgan Sommer (23m 2s):
But I think we’ll see more consolidation in the next couple of years of companies having to band together to, to keep growing.

Bruce Friedman (23m 12s):
Yeah. I can promise you that based on everything that I know, is it, is it as easy to build a traffic network as it was when you guys first started?

Morgan Sommer (23m 22s):
No, I think it’s, it’s not at all easy. No, you have to be really clever about it too. And, and the rules are much more entrenched. Now when we all first started, it was, it was the wild, wild west and you can do all kinds of crazy things and none of that’s allowed anymore. So, you know, there, we weren’t sure what was good and what was right. And Google’s rules change all the time as well.

Bruce Friedman (23m 49s):
Yeah. Dealing with Google has got to be probably the biggest challenge for people in our industry.

Morgan Sommer (23m 54s):
Yeah. And unless you have a lot of time, you know, if you’re a small operation with a, you know, and you’re shooting the content and you’re producing the website and you’re doing all the things, learning the marketing rules out there too is really complicated. And a lot of people don’t have time for that and or time to do it. Right. So I think, you know, they end up spinning their wheels, trying to figure out how to do things. Yeah.

Bruce Friedman (24m 17s):
I mean, people come to me as a rule in, in general as a con, because we do general consulting too. And they told me they want to get into the business or they want it, they want to start a site. And I basically ask them a lot of questions. And part of that is, well, how can I get traffic? I mean, can you afford to buy traffic? And most of them can’t, most of them just don’t have the war chest. And that’s hard. That’s really, really,

Morgan Sommer (24m 42s):
Yeah. And that’s why I think a lot of companies, they look to be part of bigger affiliate networks or they, you know, or they do what others have done like us is you just go to work and building your own funnel. Yeah. And, but I think there, a lot of companies are just destined to stay small operations as a result of that.

Bruce Friedman (25m 5s):
Sure. Who are some of the up and coming players in gay porn to watch out,

Morgan Sommer (25m 10s):
You know, I don’t think I have a good handle on that. Honestly. I, I don’t think I’m. Yeah. I wouldn’t say I’m qualified to answer that question at this point. Maybe a couple of years ago I could have, but at this I haven’t been paying attention. That’s that’s the, that’s the honest answer. Okay.

Bruce Friedman (25m 28s):
Okay. Who who’s out there now impresses you who’s who’s already established

Morgan Sommer (25m 35s):
Coby. Knox is one. Hmm. Okay. I think it’s a great there they have a great product and a great image. And I think they’re very popular. It’s a couple and they make their own content and they shoot all their own stuff and they have a real great website and, and people like their product. So I think there’s someone to watch out for if I had to put a finger on it. Okay.

Bruce Friedman (25m 58s):
And you said you gave me an answer. Woo. I got that one. Okay. So I don’t mean to be asking you things that you have to pull out of an office or anything like that. Now are virtual trade shows as useful as the in-person events.

Morgan Sommer (26m 15s):
I think in the world and the world we live in right now. They’re great. But no, I think I agree. I miss the personal interaction. I, I thrive on that energy that we get from being around each other and the sense of community that we have and that this is a big family. It’s really hard to maintain that thing with just the virtual trade shows. I enjoy them because they get to see the people I’ve missed seeing. Yeah. But I wish for that connection, I would go to the Prague show. That’s coming up except that I’m going home because I’d been away from home for three weeks. And if I were planning, if I were to do that, I’d have to go home for five days and then come back here for like 10

Bruce Friedman (26m 59s):
And your cats, your cats would not accept that

Morgan Sommer (27m 2s):
My cats are mad at me already. And that would only make it worse. Yes.

Bruce Friedman (27m 7s):
I was gone almost three months. You know what I did? I FaceTimed my dogs almost every day.

Morgan Sommer (27m 12s):
My cats will not like that. They’ll just walk away. They’ll just be pissed.

Bruce Friedman (27m 19s):
Yeah. How many do you have? We have five. Oh my God. You beat me. I have four dogs. Okay.

Morgan Sommer (27m 26s):
Yeah. It’s at this point it’s like, they’re their own gravity center and more just keep coming along.

Bruce Friedman (27m 32s):
Yes. They, they, they, they do tend to sprout. There’s no two ways about it. Yeah. And I agree with you about the virtual trade shows. I mean, they’re great, but it’s like seeing your friends on TV, you know, it’s not the same as seeing them in person. It’s not the same as a hug. And you know, when I, when I describe this industry to people who aren’t in it, the first word I use is the same one you use Morgan and that’s family. And I miss my family. I miss you Carl. And so many other people who I haven’t seen now for, you know, over a year and a half. And it sucks.

Bruce Friedman (28m 12s):
It just really sucks as I go to PR, I’d go to Prague and we’re recording this to let everyone know in the middle of August. And the, this will, this will drop probably late September, early October. But you know, if I go to Prague, I’m looking at 15 more days in jail or AKA a quarantine hotel quarantine, which I just got out of a week ago. And, but my dogs were glad to see me by the way, just to let you know. So your, your cats will be mad. My dogs were glad to see me, but that’s the difference there you say. Okay. So what industry events are you planning on attending in the near future?

Bruce Friedman (28m 55s):
You said Prague. No. Now

Morgan Sommer (28m 58s):
We will have some people from the team here in Europe attending the C the CEO will be there. But I think for me, I, I’m looking at the why not community event in October 11th through the 14th. And then the why not cam awards on the 14th of October in LA, as long as, as long as COVID does not cause cancellation of those events, I plan to be there. And then, and then the events in January, again, assuming the COVID situation allows things to happen. So

Bruce Friedman (29m 30s):
I hope, I really hope. Yeah, that’s kinda what I’m shooting for is January at this point, I’m I’m unfortunately probably done. And again, this was the middle of August. We talk I’m done for 20, 21, 15 days of eating airline food was enough for me. Thank you. And that’s what it looked like. I got these little boxes, I should say. I should show you a picture and it looks like airline food and it tasted like airline food anyway. And we’re not talking about business class, unfortunately. So do you think the industry is better off now than it was one to two years ago? And if so, how?

Morgan Sommer (30m 11s):
Yes. I think overall the industry is in a healthier state. I think the attention on tube sites is actually helpful. In what way?

Bruce Friedman (30m 21s):
I think, are you talking about the negative or you talking about the negative attention?

Morgan Sommer (30m 26s):
Well, it depends on your perspective on that. I think, I think holding tube sites accountable for illegal activity and for misuse of the relationship with content producers is the way I’ll put that. It’s a good thing. I think that’s helpful to the industry. I think everyone I know that has, that found their ability to build and, or buy traffic completely controlled by tube sites that we’re also, you know, still engaging in forms of piracy. I think they’re better off. They’re finding that they’re, they’re doing better now. Revenue’s up traffic is up.

Morgan Sommer (31m 7s):
And I think that if you talk to a lot of people, you’ll find that they’re quite happy with the change in things. I think the democratization of traffic has increased again rather than decreased and being manipulated by a few power centers. So I, so yeah, the industry is better off. I think people are hopeful again. And I think, you know, with the COVID situation, lots of people found that their sales went up because people were watching more or stuff at home. So, you know, even though COVID is not a good thing, but I think that the industry itself is in a better place than it was a year ago or two years.

Bruce Friedman (31m 45s):
Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. Do you see any negatives from articles? Like the ones that were in the New York times and other assorted publications?

Morgan Sommer (31m 58s):
Not really. I mean, you know, we, those of us who’ve been in the industry a long time, we have seen articles and political people saying they’re going to clean things up or they’re going to go after this or that, or the big boogeyman of, you know, MasterCard and visa, having new regulations and all of these things. And it all usually turned out to be a lot of nothing. Yeah. And I think that’s kind of where we’re at still.

Bruce Friedman (32m 25s):
You’ve got a good, you’ve got a good perspective because you’ve been at, you’ve been at this a quarter century. Yeah.

Morgan Sommer (32m 30s):
I, you know, I have a perspective if I don’t know that I’m right. I just have one.

Bruce Friedman (32m 36s):
I think it’s, I think it’s a solid one. Based on your experience, do you think there are still room for startups in the adult industry?

Morgan Sommer (32m 44s):
I just think that they need to have a better plan back when we all started up, we could wing it and we made successes of things by winging it. And I think at this point, the, the environment that you have to move within is sure, and it has rules and it has processes and it has channels to maneuver through. And you need to figure those out before you go spend a lot of money, right. Or wasting time doing the things that won’t work.

Bruce Friedman (33m 15s):
Now, if you had some advice for somebody who said today, okay, I’m going to start a, a site, whether it be a gay side, a straight side or trans side or whatever, what would be some advice you’d give them,

Morgan Sommer (33m 30s):
Do your research research. What’s in the market now and don’t copy innovate. That’s the best thing I can tell you to do because there’s so many people that are copying each other and then their base totally tripping over trying to get the exact same audience, which will make it more expensive for you to get traffic and to get an audience. If you can find a niche that’s being underserved and that you believe has revenue potential, then go that direction.

Bruce Friedman (33m 58s):
Hmm. Okay.

Morgan Sommer (34m 0s):
Or if you’ve got lots of money behind you and you want to become the biggest and the best, then, then go look at what everybody’s doing in that thing and take all of the best things and cobble them together and then spend more on marketing than anybody else does. Right. But that’s, you know, only if you’ve got the money to do that kind of thing. Right. Or,

Bruce Friedman (34m 18s):
Or look at everyone who does things well and somehow do it better.

Morgan Sommer (34m 23s):
Yeah. But she will have to have a marketing budget at this point. All Pete, big time.

Bruce Friedman (34m 28s):
I don’t, I know, I know I’ve, I’ve, I’ve managed such, such marketing budgets. Where do you think the adult industry’s headed?

Morgan Sommer (34m 38s):
I think, you know, we are mainstreaming ourselves more and more all the time. And I think culture is changing, especially in Western Europe and north America. And I think, you know, work, the industry is coming out of the shadows largely. And I think we are going to be, you know, just another form of entertainment to most people. And, and I think that we will just keep professionalizing. There will always be, you know, the independent producer doing their own thing. But I think overall, this is turning into a big business.

Bruce Friedman (35m 17s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It always has been a big business, but it’s becoming a bigger business.

Morgan Sommer (35m 22s):
Yeah. And it’s becoming a professionalized business. Yes.

Bruce Friedman (35m 26s):
Well, I think that kinda goes along with, with people coming into it from the mainstream world, because people from the mainstream world and you, you were, you were doing some work in the mainstream world. So, so you know, a lot more about them now, but people in the mainstream world have a totally different way of looking at business than people in the adult world they do.

Morgan Sommer (35m 46s):
And then I think that’s, what’s difficult for people that come into this world from me and stream is that they don’t understand the tight-knit family. That it is that, you know, where we will still cooperate or will, you know, whether there’s friendly. Coopertition is the word I like to use where we, we may be competitors, but we’re still friends and colleagues and we’ll get together at trade shows and we’ll share, you know, a dinner or drinks with each other. And then we’ll go back to being competitors. But you know, when it comes down to it, we still see each other as all part of the same club

Bruce Friedman (36m 21s):
You have to with all the noise from the outside. Yeah.

Morgan Sommer (36m 26s):

Bruce Friedman (36m 26s):
Because you know, the times that I’ve seen the adult industry fight internally, that’s how you get destroyed.

Morgan Sommer (36m 34s):

Bruce Friedman (36m 35s):
I agree. Well, Hey Morgan, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on adult side broker talk and I’m looking forward to part three down the road. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, find new ways to monetize your site, such as sell advertising. If you’ve got a free site, like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site. If you have a tube, another way to make money is to sell premium memberships, offer free users, one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality or longer videos or both. You can also make the site ad free for premium members.

Bruce Friedman (37m 16s):
Start an affiliate program. If you have a pay site, this is a great way to increase your quality traffic and get more joins with all sites. You can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell your users. Pay sites can also sell, pay per view, where people have the option of paying by the scene for content. They can’t get on the site. This is another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee, sell them other products like toys and novelties market, your business, do things to improve your search rankings like SEO. And you can find some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our site list, all of the benefits of your site and your marketing and how they affect the user.

Bruce Friedman (38m 4s):
And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firm, such as adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time check services you pay for like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options. Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch. Plus got higher quality hosting in the process. Again, ask us for recommendations. If you have questions, always look for ways to do things more cost-effectively along with this, make your profit and loss statement, show more profit, increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that make sure your P and L statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs.

Bruce Friedman (38m 54s):
Not a bunch of personal expenses you put in. This will cost you money when you sell it may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you. If you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement, remember every dollar in profit increases the value of your website. As much as three to four times, this is why you need a good experienced broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars, more on their sale just by adjusting the P and L statement to reflect actual business expenses, as opposed to a bunch of tax BS. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to porn, actress, Coralyn Jewel.

Bruce Friedman (39m 38s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Morgan Sommer. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry writer Michael McGrady.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. One of the most famous affiliate programs in the adult industry. They’re a subscription-based dating adult social network and cams program with exclusive ownership of custom developed websites and offers in straight gay, hardcore, and mainstream niches. They’ve been a prominent and sustainable affiliate program for 18 years. The company has weathered countless industry changes in regulations and has always paid its affiliates well, and on time, this includes the entire affiliate database with historical performance data.

Plus the email list with 6.4 million active addresses, the technical platform has recently been rewritten and is modular based and built for scale. The entire system is hosted in the cloud, which allows for easy third party integrations, scalability, and cost optimization with focus on billing optimization, traffic monetization, and risk mitigation. The business intelligence system and team have been designed to maximize lifetime value and build a sustainable and longterm stream of passive income.

There’s a full technical infrastructure, including billing load balancer, gateway integration, and call center tools with customer support and content. This is a turnkey business that would allow anyone that is great at traffic acquisition to own the entire life cycle and lifetime value of the customer. It has the technical infrastructure, reputation, relationships, and systems and processes to massively scale revenue, all this for only 2.9, 5 million us dollars.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Michael McGrady. He is a writer at why not, Michael, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Thanks

Speaker 2 (3m 35s): For bringing me on Bruce. I’m really excited,

Speaker 1 (3m 38s): Excited to have you here. Now let’s tell you a bit about Michael he’s a contributing writer to why not.com. Why not cam.com and why not magazine? He’s worked on several news beats, including digital civil liberties, free speech, public health, ethics, drug, legalization, harm reduction, topics, national security, and other trade industry topics he’s been published in conservative, liberal centrist, libertarian, and international journals, and other news media outlets.

These outlets include the south China morning post filter magazine insights sources, NASDAQ, the Motley fool, the Washington examiner, real clear politics, real clear policy and real clear health. So we’ve got all our real clears out of the way. The Jerusalem post, the Denver post, the spectator, the center square wire service, the USA today, network and others around the world. He has higher education credentials in international relations and global public health policy.

Much of his current journalism focuses on the adult entertainment industry, of course, electronic cigarettes and harm reduction and immigrate. He is also the founder and chief executive of the NPR public affairs family of companies. And perihelion, I hope I pronounce that right creations where he produces podcasts on varying topics like drug use harm reduction and the history of Christmas. So drug route drug use for or against

Speaker 2 (5m 10s): Definitely in favor of drug use I’m in Colorado. So

Speaker 1 (5m 15s): Say no more.

Speaker 2 (5m 16s): Yeah. We’re, we’re kind of one of those bastions of, you know, drug, drug libertarianism. I, I call it, you know, where no one really gives a shit.

Speaker 1 (5m 27s): Well, you smoke in a fight. You really don’t give a shit. Right.

Speaker 2 (5m 31s): I am. I admit I’m I’m smoking right now, so.

Speaker 1 (5m 35s): Good. Good, good. Nice to have you in that state, I’ll take advantage of you. Okay. So Michael, talk a little bit about what you do for the why not network.

Speaker 2 (5m 47s): Oh, all right. So I, I was hired for, for why nots main webmaster and affiliate page. When i.com back in January, February as a freelance contributor, and I mainly just cover political topics and business side of things. So just with my experience in politics and covering these types of industry discussions, including free speech, digital, civil liberties, and, you know, health rights sets, workers’ rights, you name it.

I just found it. Why not to be the perfect place to kind of do that? It’s a great publication. I learned so much there already. And, you know, I’ve, I really am grateful to be there and just engaging in the industry as I am. So

Speaker 1 (6m 32s): Now you told me when we were talking casually, you’ve been an observer kind of a Voyager as it were of our industry and our industry media for awhile.

Speaker 2 (6m 41s): Oh yeah. Very much so I’m, I’ve read all the magazines I subscribed to ASN. I subscribed to AVN. I subscribed test is I’ve always read why not. I’ve always been interested in this industry. And, you know, I just thought to pull the trigger one day and, you know, I emailed my editor at my current editor at why not. And, you know, within a day he sent me a contract and now I’m here. So, you know, it’s, it’s been, it’s been fun.

Speaker 1 (7m 9s): You get any easier than that. What about the industry interests? You

Speaker 2 (7m 13s): Let us set politics, really the free speech components and everything we’re saying with section two 30 and you know, these types of discussions as it relate to <inaudible> and, you know, sex workers rights online, not to mention sex workers, rights and performers rights in real life as well. So with COVID and all the shutdowns and everything like that, it kinda just fit me to kind of find, you know, this, I call it an alternative career field.

I like to cover, you know, cause you know, a lot of people, when you say, oh, I write for a porn industry publication, they think that I’m writing about like films or I’m reviewing content. When in reality, I’m literally doing what I did everywhere from covering politics, interviewing politicians, industry leaders, chambers of commerce, you know, just doing that, but you know, engage with that. So just really just, I like the whole concept of politics, how this is such a very open and interesting industry.

Speaker 1 (8m 16s): Absolutely. Now this leads into my next question. You, as you mentioned, you previously did a lot of mainstream writing before. Why not? How has writing in the adult industry different?

Speaker 2 (8m 28s): I can be more boisterous.

Speaker 1 (8m 33s): Well, you can just say, you can just say fucking general and nobody cares.

Speaker 2 (8m 37s): Yeah. And you know, all these, all these crappy Republicans who just want to get rid of everyone’s free speech and you know, you know, I just liked to be more open and you know, I don’t usually use profanity that often in my writing, but sometimes it’s just, there have been a few pieces I’ve published for why not, where they’re pretty, they’re pretty strongly worded it pretty sarcastic, pretty bitchy. And I’m just like, yeah, these, these guys need to, or these guys just need to get out of office or we just got to keep it strong and all that.


Speaker 1 (9m 10s): Yeah, maybe we can find an island for them all, you know, forget about politics

Speaker 2 (9m 17s): Right

Speaker 1 (9m 19s): Now. Let’s talk about your foray into covering the adult entertainment industry. How’s it going? So

Speaker 2 (9m 26s): It’s been good. I’ve been able to do a lot in a very short time. Yes, I interviewed, yeah. I, I started writing a series on NFTs and how NFTs and blockchain are basically the future for the industry. And I got to spend a lot of time with some wonderful performers and producers so far. And I’ve just, like I said, it’s just been a fantastic experience. You know, I’ve never met so many professionals in an industry that know you most normies.

I call them most normal people. Wouldn’t expect us to be so professional because it is. And I just a hundred percent, a hundred percent respect everyone in this industry so far that I’ve interacted with. And it’s, it’s just been a great learning experience. Like I said, I know I don’t want to sound too green, but you know, I, I started officially covering the industry, you know, just this year. So it is, it is been a kind of a blessing in disguise and also challenge, but a very worth while challenge.

Speaker 1 (10m 32s): Okay. Now, why are you so interested in the politics surrounding the industry? Well,

Speaker 2 (10m 38s): When you think of it, the politics, including, you know, the free speech components, like section two 30 and you know, the free speech of internet users online, that, that doesn’t just impact, you know, platforms, adult platforms that impacts everyone. So why don’t we wait, I view it is why don’t we approach this from one of the most scrutinized industries that rely on internet freedom and try and make a case for everyone else to realize that, you know, we can’t have a far left Democrats or far right.

Republicans trying to control what people see and what they say on the internet. Obviously there are with limits, there are criminal things that we need to watch out for and we need to follow law. But the thing is, is that it’s, it’s the first amendment. And my, my religion, I like to say is the first amendment. So it’s just, I that’s how I care about it. It just, everything that happens to the adult industry can happen to, you know, the mainstream tech industry can happen. Social media, it could happen to you tubers. It could happen to even like, you know, religious blotters or something like that.

So it’s, it impacts everybody. And

Speaker 1 (11m 53s): What, what kind of burns me sometimes is the lack of awareness among the public. Especially people who vote Republican, how the lack of adherence to the first amendment, how, how dangerous it is to everybody.

Speaker 2 (12m 15s): Yeah. And you know, I I’ve noticed that too, especially with the rise of Trump. It’s just everyone, you know, the, the whole thing with, during the Obama administration is that conservatives and Republicans who, you know, didn’t like Obama, but weren’t necessarily so far writer they’re centrists or something like that. You know, they felt repressed because the liberal media, so to speak had that, that had their numbers, so to speak in the sensory, in their messages.

But you know, same thing happened when the Republicans came into power and now it’s just, it’s the same, same people, same, same bull crap on both sides where everyone’s just like, well, you’re, you shouldn’t have the right to say this, or you shouldn’t have the right to say this. And you know, this feeds into the toxicity of cancer culture feeds into the toxicity of social media de platforming performers for no absolute reason. It just, it’s all of this, it’s all of this craziness that not even just Republicans, but Democrats moderates, you name it, that they just, they don’t, they don’t think of it because, you know, yeah, porn’s this still this taboo field, this taboo part of society, but you know, it, it’s everywhere.

When you think about it’s the most far reaching industry I’ve ever seen. And that’s a good thing because it helps push conversations. And, you know, we need to have these free speech conversations still, especially when it comes to controversial speech. So

Speaker 1 (13m 45s): Yeah, and I think people take free speech for granted and they really shouldn’t. I agree.

Speaker 2 (13m 52s): A lot of people say they’re protecting free speech when in reality they’re censoring just what happened with the Florida social media bill, which a couple of my colleagues at why not. And you know, other publications in the industry have, have covered saying that, you know, this bill, even though it said to protect quote unquote, so for media or, you know, political viewpoints that are not favored by certain technology companies or something like that. But you know, it just, it, it, it impacts more than social media and, and passing an entire ICS, entire interactive computer service or an entire platform that meets the criteria of equal unquote social media network in these laws, including, you know, some of the largest tube sites in the space.

You know, a lot of the tube sites have social media functions and, you know, we have only fans now, which is completely premium social media and not to mention just all the other premium platforms where people can interact. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14m 54s): I mean, not to mention everything that’s happened with net neutrality in the last administration.

Speaker 2 (14m 60s): Yeah. I just P I w as we’re recording this, I just got a article out for why not? Yeah. For the net neutrality, EO from president Biden, yet second order, he’s asking the FCC to reinstate net neutrality, but he can’t really do that until he appoints, you know, the next democratic member of the FCC. Cause it’s tilts still two to two. And, you know, you got to have three to, you have to have a simple majority to pass regulation on that commission.

Speaker 1 (15m 31s): It’s just amazing that Republicans would be against something that’s so good for Americans and also be against something that is good for business.

Speaker 2 (15m 44s): Exactly. A lot of businesses reply, rely on that neutrality. Yep. And especially internet based businesses, almost every single business in this industry is internet based. And we rely on everyone in this industry relies on an open internet. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16m 0s): Well the only ones, we’re the only ones that are going to benefit from getting rid of net neutrality or the big are the big ISP.

Speaker 2 (16m 9s): Yeah. Those internet service providers, you know, they say they’re for, you know, supporting other companies that rely on their broadband infrastructures, but you know, it’s still at the end of the day, they’re still businesses. So they want to turn profit and, you know, restricting internet speed throttling and censoring content that just that’s profitable for them. Unfortunately,

Speaker 1 (16m 31s): Unfortunately. So what have you learned so far about this industry?

Speaker 2 (16m 37s): Pretty much everything I’ve said, you know, I’ve been learning the different factions, I should say. You know, the types of people, the feelings on tube sites, feelings on, you know, content piracy and I’m learning a lot of the, you know, the internal, my main thing is I’m not trying to be like a controversial lightning bolt or anything like that. I’m just trying to learn about the controversies in the industry that continue to impact fellow members.

You know, why people don’t partake with certain studios or student, certain genre film or something like that, or, you know, just the general intricacies of the internal politics of the industry, but also the external it’s impacting the internal and making things more complicated, easier, et cetera, just, you know, it’s kind of, it’s kind of what happens when you try and learn a subculture or an entire new industry in general, you know, corporate culture is not just relegated to individual businesses.

It’s, it’s definitely seen across an entire industry and in my time just covering media and all that, it’s just, you, you learn a lot about people, you learn a lot about different types of people, a lot of different types of actors in an industry or a certain space. Has

Speaker 1 (17m 59s): Anything surprised you that you’ve

Speaker 2 (18m 1s): Learned? Actually, no, I, I knew that, you know, this industry was a hundred percent professional, you know, all the accusations of, you know, porn being this gigantic conspiracy of, you know, you know, you know, the stupid Q Anon conspiracies or whatever about porn or some shit like that. You know, I know none of that was true. And one thing that I’ve learned just working in my field as a journalist and as a communicator is that, you know, you gotta always have to keep, keep an open mind when you’re interacting with people, even if it’s something you’re familiar with, but, you know, that’s, that’s, I’ve just learned that a lot of what the external forces against the industry say about the industry are not true and that’s a hundred percent true.

I know I’m kind of preaching to the choir here, but sure. It just, you know, it, it, I I’d like to say it again. And I like to be one of the thousands in this industry who say that none of what, say like an organization, like INCOSE says about porn or suicide or whatever they’re called, isn’t true. You know, it’s not this giant criminal enterprise or anything like that. It’s people who believe in sex positivity, people who believe in, you know, free speech and using, you know, what God gave them to not only make money, but to make other people happy and to make themselves happy.

You know, that’s the way I see it. So

Speaker 1 (19m 26s): Well, in many cases you just have to consider the source. And in the case of those sources, you can pretty much guess that anything they say is going to be a lie.

Speaker 2 (19m 35s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (19m 38s): Is there any type of journalism you haven’t done that you’d like to do?

Speaker 2 (19m 43s): I really want to get into a strain writing for the industry. I want to do, obviously it doesn’t take too much to write a scene. It’s just, I’m really into the law inform erotica and the features and the parodies and all that. And where there is actually a storyline, where there is a, a long form story, obviously with the sexualities sexuality implied. But, you know, I still really liked dialogue. I liked watching that even, even that late, you know, I don’t, I don’t just need to watch a clip or anything like that.

I actually like watching the entire film because I like to appreciate what the filmmaker did, especially with these feature films and these long form narrative films that are coming out of the industry. You’re like, I mean, there’s not too many.

Speaker 1 (20m 32s): Oh, no, there’s a few you’re, you’re like one of those guys who reads the articles in Playboy.

Speaker 2 (20m 37s): Oh yeah. I do read the articles.

Speaker 1 (20m 41s): Well, you’re a journalist. I’m not surprised.

Speaker 2 (20m 43s): I mean, you know, Playboy, you know, they, they definitely gone different directions, but you know, they’ve, they’ve published all sorts of people and Ian Fleming, it was published in Playboy. I think don’t quote me on that. You know, inflaming, he’s my favorite novelist. I love James Bond movies. I love the books. He was actually one of the reasons why I wanted to become a writer. So it was just like, you know, I liked reading archives and stuff.

Yes. I liked, you know, the visual displays and things mapped to scenes, but, you know, I I’d really do appreciate good wordsmiths and there are plenty in this industry.

Speaker 1 (21m 23s): Sure. No. What other projects are you involved with and how are they coming along?

Speaker 2 (21m 30s): There’s this, I’m working with a few folks on just some documentarian projects. There’s one project in particular that I’m very excited about. I’m not gonna give too much away, but it’s, it’s the film for, it’s the documentary for a mutual friend of ours and I’m helping her writes the scripts and the screen, the screenplay.

And I’m pretty much serving as like the proofreader and the editor for her as she writes and we transition, you know, her book to the screen. So,

Speaker 1 (22m 11s): So that’s the one year the most fired up about right now.

Speaker 2 (22m 14s): Oh yeah. I’m most excited about that. You know, it, it, it, I, you know, I’m pretty sure it’s going to be very, obviously I’m talking about later in the interview, but, you know, it’s, it, it, I’m very excited about that project. She’s, she’s nothing but a talent, great director, great, great writer. And, you know, she’s a great performer too. So, you know, it, it, I’ve learned a lot from her. I’ve learned a lot from the people involved with the project and, you know, I’m excited for it. So

Speaker 1 (22m 42s): Let’s talk about your recent writing for why not now what stuck out to you while reporting some of these articles,

Speaker 2 (22m 50s): Everybody’s openness, you know, everyone’s pretty open in this industry to talk, obviously, sometimes I’m just talking to people with pseudonyms or, you know, I’m talking to people who are just, you know, kicking me, press releases or something like that, but everyone is pretty fantastic in their own way. You know, there are some people that I haven’t spoken to yet that I want to, and I want to get involved more in the industry.

You know, I want to, like I said, I just want to enter, I honestly see this being a longterm career for me moving forward. But it just, everything I’ve noticed is just everyone’s professionalism, everyone’s mutual respect for different points of view, different approaches to projects. And, you know, everyone’s just been good. You know, obviously you’re going to have your bad actors in the industry and your workplace and all that it’s in for any industry, any office, but you know, everything’s been positive so far for me. And I’ve, I’ve learned, like I said, I I’ve said this many times, I’ve learned so much and it’s been a hell of a ride and it’s been so quick, but I’m so just so happy I’m here and I’m talking to you,

Speaker 1 (24m 5s): It’s a pleasure and honor,

Speaker 2 (24m 6s): Actually, LA LA with your podcast a lot. So it’s, it’s an honor. So, you know,

Speaker 1 (24m 12s): It makes me, that makes me feel good. So you’re the listener. Okay. That’s good to hear. Finally, I finally talked to him. That’s good. That’s

Speaker 2 (24m 19s): I love podcast. Yeah. Oh, sure. It’s the podcast all the time. I like audio dramas. I like news podcasts. I like talk shows like this. You know, I listen to all sorts of podcasts, even foreign language podcasts and stuff. I try and understand it with my barely passable French channel. That’s like, it’s it’s I like to, I like to learn. I like to read. I like to listen to so sure.

Speaker 1 (24m 44s): Now you mentioned that there’s some people you would in the industry. You’d still like to interview who are they?

Speaker 2 (24m 51s): I really want to definitely interview some of the superstars. I really would want to add interview Natalie Mars or a Daisy Taylor. You know, they’re, they’re stunning performers. I think both of them are really taking the industry by storm and showing that trans performance is just as sexy as you know, regular. I shouldn’t say that as a, you know, straight and gay performance and all that.

But I think that the trans presence in the industry has definitely grown. And I’d like to talk to these, those two heavyweights, several of them just, you know, to learn and see where they feel the industry is going and all that, you know. Right.

Speaker 1 (25m 37s): Right now. Yeah. I completely get it. Now. We’ve had some, we’ve had some stars on, on as well, you know, you know, you know, I had, you know, I had coral and on, I recently had lucky vet on and yeah. And Vicky was, Vicky was fabulous. She’s always fabulous. Everything she does. Okay. So let’s give your big secret away. Let’s discuss your experience with coral and Juul and the four or five days you spent together.

And, you know, when you, you know, when they, you know, in the article, you said you spent that much time there. I said, okay, there’s gotta be something more involved here. So how was it, how was it to spend four or five days with, with our friend Coraline?

Speaker 2 (26m 25s): Well, first off I come from very small town in Colorado. I look out at, out of my office and I see mountains and, you know, I, I hunt, I do all this, you know, I have a pretty outdoorsy, very quiet life. And I, you know, I’ve done big cities, I’ve done California. I’ve done all of it. Sure. But when the four or five days I spent with coral and you know, it just, it was the grade. It was just one of the most exhilarating experiences I had as a professional.

You know, I learned so much from her and obviously the secrets out, it was, it is a film. It is a project that Courtlands is leading it’s based on her book, her documentary, you know, where the, when the ice melts. But these I first stuff, you know, I fly out and I, I, I made this mistake of leaving the airport during the layover in Las Vegas. I have family in Las Vegas. We have a home in Las Vegas, me and my wife.

And I just had to go out and check, you know, I thought it’d be quick, but I missed my flight. And she was so pissed off at me, but I booked another flight. But having mine, the, the flight I booked was with Southwest airlines. Right. And that was when Southwest airlines had that gigantic failure for their weather software a couple of weeks ago. And I, my, my flight got delayed like five hours and I just ended up sleeping at my in-laws and then going back to the airport at like five in the morning, and then Cortland picked me up like seven or eight.

And she was like, I’m so angry at you. We can talk when we get sleep. And that was the first day. Oh, nice.

Speaker 1 (28m 19s): I can’t, it’s hard for me to imagine Carlin being angry at anybody,

Speaker 2 (28m 23s): But she, but she, I, I, it was my fault. And I, I owe her a lot for that. And, you know, after that, we just started getting professional and doing the work we needed to do. And, you know, just spending time with her was definitely something else. She is one of the most vibrant people I met in this industry. So far, one of the most vibrant people I’ve met in my life. And, you know, just based on the story I wrote for why not describing that was great.

That thank you. Thank you. That got

Speaker 1 (28m 56s): Know that got us conversing in a little led to this interview.

Speaker 2 (28m 59s): Yeah, it did. It did. We were hanging out at the Harris Southern California casino resort in Ray con and on the right-hand Indian reservation, kind of outside San Diego. And I was able to finally get to like, get her alone. We can talk, you know, all that stuff. We had fun. We got, of course we got drunk, but I mean, it’s just like, it, it was definitely worth the experience. She, she opened up to me, I opened up to her and you know, now we’re good friends.

It’s just one of those situations, you know, like we talk pretty often or still working on projects together. She’s sure she’s been, I like to think that she’s kind of been a mentor for me in this industry so far I’m on others, but she’s definitely been fun, but the entertainment of just being around her, you know, her, her quirkiness, her, her professionalism, her creativity, it was intoxicating. And it, it was certainly a worthwhile to spend time with her.

Speaker 1 (29m 60s): Yeah. I got to tell you the whole experience of doing the interview with her. And that’s, that’s been the, all of our contact except for some emails and some Skype messages. So we have yet to meet in person yet, like so many of us during the pandemic, but I just, yeah. She blows me away. You know, the, the, the question I asked of course, was what do you do in your spare time? And she’s a, she’s a 24, 7 type of person for sure.

And I, and I encourage people to go to why not this isn’t going to run until the fall, but I encourage people to go to why not? And, and search in Michael’s works for, for Cornyn’s article. It’s,

Speaker 2 (30m 48s): It’s entitled hustling with coral and Juul. Yes. And, you know, I think it w it was pretty funny. This video is Encore. Berlin’s only fans. We were hanging out in the hotel room before we went out to the casino floor. Well, we went to the casino floor, but we were really down. And then she started filming, complaining about how we were down. And then she turned the camera on me and she was like, what type of shoes are you wearing? I’m late. I’m wearing my slippers.

And she was like, my screenwriter is worrying, is like, it slippers on the casino floor and a wonder, we’re having bad luck. And I literally wore slippers on the casino floor. Cause you know, I just, I was tired and I didn’t really think anything of it, but it just, I was like, oh crap. Yeah. I should probably update my, my, my footwear. It’s hilarious. Yeah. And there’s a few other inside jokes in the article.

If you haven’t noticed that I can probably did into more on a, on a different date, but you know, it was just, it was, it was fun. You know, I got a glimpse at her life, you know, she put me up in her home. It was very kind of her to let me stay with her. You know, we had dinner. No, it was kind of fun. You know, just to two friends hanging out working, I got to see where she hosts her hanky-panky podcast, you know? And, you know, I learned about a lot of her upcoming projects outside of the film and the documentary work.

And it, it just is, I just said it was worthwhile very worthwhile. And you know, if you ever get the chance to see her in person, definitely get her a drink

Speaker 1 (32m 35s): Just to hang out. She’s already, she’s already promised to come visit me, my wife and I in Thailand. So yeah, we’re looking forward to that. I know I want my wife to meet her now. I haven’t even met her yet, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (32m 46s): Yeah. Well, my, my wife wants to meet her too, so it’s just,

Speaker 1 (32m 51s): Yeah. I was raving to my wife about her too. So there you go. Okay. So let’s talk about your coverage of section two 30 and digital freestyle

Speaker 2 (32m 60s): Speech. Section two 30 is under attack. I mean, come on. I, I, you know, all the, all the legal blogs for the industry, all the lawyers in this industry, you know, they, they have some understanding of how important section two 30 is section two 30 of the communications decency act of 1996 is the so-called free first amendment of the internet. Yep. And everyone on this podcast knows it’s a third-party liability shield to prevent platforms from getting sued for the actions of a few select bad apples that use their platform, right.

That users, but that had this law has permitted a self regulatory environment and suffered a laboratory approach for all digital companies. Just about like, just not just social media, but even like our sites in the industry. You know, there’s a lot of self regulation in this industry and it’s owed to not just, you know, us wanting to be compliant and, you know, show that we’re a responsible industry, but also just because it’s section two 30 that provides the platforms and owners of these platforms, the tools and the legal cover to, you know, implement policies that support not only speech, but also protect user base and cashflow.

So it, it section two 30 is getting attacked because, you know, well, during Trump, you know, he said, oh, section two 30 is, you know, there’s terrible. It’s terrible. I, my Trump’s terrible.

Speaker 1 (34m 43s): Almost, almost sounds like Charles Barkley, but anyway, terrible, terrible.

Speaker 2 (34m 48s): It’s horrible. Let’s just made such sincere 30 repeal and it will be bright. I can’t, I can’t do Trump, but it just, just the attacks against the section two 30 coming from the left, the right. Especially the religious. Right. And, you know, the implementation of laws like assess the foster. Yep. You know, it just, it, there’s just this sentiment in the political lead these days that, you know, free speech isn’t really free.

And, you know, I think one thing that is mixed up is that the first amendment protects us, the people from censorship, from the government. Right. And it’s exactly, it’s exactly what they’re doing. What they’re, what exactly they’re doing is they’re trying to repeal section two 30 and they’re trying to sensor that’s exactly what the first amendment of the constitution protects us from. And, you know, you know, the court hits is I know the court cases, everyone in this industry should be aware, aware that courts at every single level in American governance, all the way to the high court Supreme court has at least confirmed that session.

Two 30 is protected under the first amendment. And is this important law to the growth and acceleration of internet technology, free speech communication through the internet, everything like that. It just, it did. It’s just being trampled. I rarely try and comment on the, the pain of some of the larger players in this industry. But I mean, like all these bogus lawsuits against the tube sites, you know, the Nicholas Kristoff stories, obviously there’s, there’s probably some evidence of like abuse by a third party user who used these platforms for bad and evil.

But you know, you can’t just blame the platform. You have to consider the fact that, you know, these platforms do everything they can to have compliant businesses. Yes,

Speaker 1 (36m 52s): Absolutely. And even, you know, even PornHub move, you know, the mind geek people and who own porn PornHub and all the other big or most of the other big tubes, they’ve been very, very Dell, digital and diligent. I can, I can talk, they’ve been very diligent about, Hey, and you’re the one smoking pot about

Speaker 2 (37m 14s): It’s medicinal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 15s): Of course, about keeping about keeping, you know, kids and, and other, you know, negative things off of, out of their content. And, you know, I’m much more so than Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or anybody else yet the Canadian government goes after them after this bogus series of articles by Kristoff, who I canceled my, my subscription to the New York times after the second art,

Speaker 2 (37m 48s): You know, it’s kind of sad. And this is coming from a journalist who’s learned from a lot of great journalists. I think Nicholas Kristoff is a good journalist. Well, he was, but you know, he got into this. Yeah. He w he has Pulitzer prize prizes for his reporting and war zones and Darfur, you know, he has all of this foreign correspondence experience. Sure. And he’s done so much for, you know, this field of journalism, but, you know, he bought into the alarmism of the anti-porn and tie trafficking, quote, unquote groups so easily.

And I, I, it just makes me sad to see that

Speaker 1 (38m 33s): Well, NCOC got through to him and yeah. And I, you know, I mean, they basically own him now.

Speaker 2 (38m 41s): Oh yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s just, well, it is that. And, you know, I think he didn’t do his due diligence as a journalist to even reach out to industry groups, like the association of sites, advocating child protection, you know, that’s a great org, you know, it’s, it’s literally a chamber of commerce that works to promote the RTA banner, the,

Speaker 1 (39m 4s): And it’s fully supported by our industry.

Speaker 2 (39m 6s): Yeah. And they even have, they even have they even work with the department of justice, they have a reporting line, all this stuff. And no,

Speaker 1 (39m 13s): No, the guy that owns it runs it very well.

Speaker 2 (39m 16s): Yeah. I interviewed it’s Mr. Henning. Yeah. I interviewed him while back for why not for an article basically, where I said, I asked him, like, did Nicholas Kristoff ever reach out to your group? And he said, no. And he said, he’d be welcomed. He’d welcome him with open arms to give him a look at what they do. And it just, it just, it, it’s just sad because, you know, I haven’t seen anything like that yet coming from Mr.

Christoph. And it’s, it’s unfortunate, he’s he has this history of being a tremendous journalist, tremendous author, but he, he just, he’s kind of proven to be no a Lackey for the anti-porn movement. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (40m 1s): So what do you think is the biggest policy issue facing the industry and indie adult content creators right now?

Speaker 2 (40m 10s): Well, that’s a big question. Definitely session two 30 and net neutrality, but that’s, that’s pretty top level, very broad, but you know, if we want to get into individual issues, you know, de platforming and you know, how the Nyla platforms, Manila, social networks just treat, you know, performers, profiles just like they’re terrorists or something like that. And that’s not, that’s not right. Yeah. Like, you know, you, you have the leader of like what a terrorist group on Twitter, but I can’t even follow my favorite porn stars on Twitter.

So, you know, that doesn’t make too much sense to me. So it, it, that to me is probably one of the bigger issues facing the industry. And that in itself is definitely something that needs to be done company to company, industry, to industry. And it’s just unfortunate. Cause you know, you know, Twitter is kind of Twitter as a platform at, for example is kind of succumbing to this pressure of the anti section two 30 people and all that. And you know, we can’t even share our articles from wine on.com on Facebook because it’s blocks.

Like they say it’s like harmful or something like that, or potentially harmful. I can’t even post my articles on my Facebook page. So it just, it it’s just it’s so it’s just so arbitrary and it kinda kinda just sucks. You know, I really could go on, I don’t want to sound like I’m ranting, but that honestly feels like the biggest issue. And that definitely kind of evolves in the politics and the policy. Of course, everything, of course.

Speaker 1 (41m 46s): So what are your aspirations moving

Speaker 2 (41m 48s): Forward? Ooh, another big question. I just want to get more involved, you know, I’m going to stick to doing what I’m doing now. I mean, I’m in a happy place. Sure. But you know, I still got bills to pay and you know, this is work, but you know, career aspirations or anything like that, I, I do see a long-term career in this space or on this Newsbeat or something like that, or getting more involved with, you know, the creative side of things. I really do. I just said, I really love writing.

I’m writing my own fiction novel right now. So, you know, I just, I want to, I just want to offer my talents and services to people in the industry that I feel I can mesh with, who I can get along with, who I can work with, who I can be friends with and, you know, just, you know, have that mutual respect and a mutual understanding and respect for feedback and creativity. And I just, that’s all of that one. I just want you to be more involved. I really don’t have anything more complicated than that.

I don’t have like a set goal or a set studio on a work with or anything, and I don’t necessarily want to perform myself either. It’s just, I want to, you know, I just want to be creative, you know?

Speaker 1 (43m 3s): Okay. So what do you like to do when you’re not

Speaker 2 (43m 6s): Writing? I am a very avid kayaker. I live near three lakes. Well, I go fishing almost every day. I like to do that, but I like traveling. I mean it wouldn’t, and I am a big fan of video games. Trust me, like I, I in comic books. So I’m a, I’m a nerd in real life. I have over 2000 copies of Marvel star wars comics.

Wow. And I, I do cosplay, so does my wife and all that. So, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re nerds and you know, we, we like to do that and we, I I’m obsessed with light procedural cop dramas. So I like watching law and order on repeat. So, you know, and I know almost every line of law and order SVU, like, like the back of my hand, I’ve watched that series so many times and it’s just like, I like to do that. And you know, I just, I like to write like personal stuff and just doing, having fun, you know, I, I’m happy to say that a lot of my personal interests are also my professional interests, so I can do things that I like to do for fun and get paid for it.

So, you know, it’s, and I want to keep it that way or try to keep it that way. So, you know, I think a healthy marriage of personal life and professional life for you pretty much,

Speaker 1 (44m 37s): Hey, it doesn’t get any better than that. Exactly. Well, Michael, I’d like to thank you again for being our guests today, Dan adult site broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 48s): Of course. Thank you Bruce. Thanks everybody. It was an honor being here and you know, I’m, I’m pretty open to, if you ever get my email or anything, just message me or something. And I, I usually write back pretty quickly.

Speaker 1 (44m 60s): You do. The pleasure was all mine. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (45m 3s): All right. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (45m 4s): My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your website design up to date, do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success. If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things.

I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’re going to end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more. Don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing?

Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet. The competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’re going to lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They click out immediately and go onto the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for.

If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Morgan Sommer of Live Jasmin and Dopler Group. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, Michael McGrady. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Filip from Quantox Technology.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale. That adult site broker actually our property of the week, this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available. In addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters right now, we have a cam site dating sites and pay sites available. We often have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons.

These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyers NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, coral and Juul interview porn actress and podcast host Lily Craven. You can find the hanky panky podcast@hankypankypodcast.com and wherever fine podcasts can be heard.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site broker talk is Philip chief executive officer of Kwan talks technology, the leading development and outsourcing company in the adult and affiliate spaces. Phillip, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk, Hey

Speaker 2 (2m 59s): Bruce, always obviously happy to join you and great to talk to you

Speaker 1 (3m 3s): Now, Phillip has been on our podcast before, and if you haven’t listened to the first go round, when we were like in our second month, I suggest you do. There’s some great information in there. Now here’s a bit about Kwan talks. Kwan talks has been doing development and outsourcing work in the adult and affiliate spaces for over 15 years. They’ve grown to over 350 people, man. That’s awesome. Including developers, programmers, customer support agents, virtual assistants, and more, they do all types of web and mobile development, including native apps.

Now at Kwan talks your employee not to mention your project. Won’t suddenly disappear and run away. God knows I’ve had that happen. Now that’s because they’re a company and not an individual. So, you know, your project will be completed. Their staff speak and write and fluent English. Again, unlike many competitors with a dedicated staff, your project will be done on a cost efficient basis. And since they’re offshore, you’re going to save money. They’re frequent sponsors of industry trade shows.

So you see Philip <inaudible> Dan and the rest of the team often. So Philip, how has the pandemic affected your industry?

Speaker 2 (4m 19s): So, yeah, we are now like basically two G years into, into this pandemic. And basically, you know, after the initial shock and big, big changes that we have been through, things are kind of getting back to normal because it’s definitely this new normal, how they call it right now. There are many things are changed. And what we are witnessing right now is that many things that seem to like temporary change are actually here to stay. Probably one of them is remote work.

Yes, our, our team is operating in six different countries and we are working with clients for many, many more regions and countries and conditions are different. You know, somewhere people are in the office and trying to get back to work as usual. But also we are seeing that in many, many regions, people are working remotely and even companies are deciding to switch and this strategy and to, and to work remotely because obviously there are some challenges, but also there are a lot of positive sides of these things.

We have seen many changes also in the industry itself, and these are different business models, some talk, some something down, some head to accommodate and change. So it was definitely very, very dynamic period behind

Speaker 1 (5m 39s): For sure. Now with the pandemic, we have a new era of remote work as you alluded to, what’s the best way to deal with it?

Speaker 2 (5m 49s): Well, yeah, basically a few years ago we had to invest. We as a company, had to invest a lot of effort to explain to our clients how remote work is actually being done because many of them were used to hiring only in-house people working from the same office from the same building being physically present. But nowadays these changed, as you said. And basically I actually did one conference like a few weeks ago and I was very surprised because, you know, from being like a company where probably eight of 10 people would tell us, thank you, but we are doing in-house now.

Now it’s like, everybody’s very interested when they see like, you know, near shoring, offshoring, outsourcing, remote work, and Dave, even if they don’t really need the development services, they are kind of keen to just like talk with us and maybe get some information and some hints and tips. And that’s actually how I got the idea that perhaps one of the topics on our today’s agenda should be just discussing the perks and challenges of remote work.

Speaker 1 (7m 0s): Sure, sure, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I, I, I think overall that I’d say virtually every company now accepts the fact that remote work for development and many other services is just a assist a fact of life.

Speaker 2 (7m 23s): Exactly, exactly. Like we are, we are seeing like an, and I’m hearing from our clients from adult industry that they’re also experienced some challenges where basically right now some huge mainstream companies are taking their employees, you know, and hiring them as a remote. So basically I just recently talked with one of our clients from Canada and they’re having huge challenges with big mainstream names like apple, like Shopify, like Microsoft, who are in us by insane time zone.

And they are messy. They hiring their people and sending them like really huge offers, different hard to compete with.

Speaker 1 (8m 8s): So as an it company with hundreds of employees, you become a bit of an expert on remote work. Now, what advice do you have for other companies dealing with this and what are the challenges?

Speaker 2 (8m 20s): Well, yeah, definitely. There are some things that people need to be aware of even before the pandemic. We, as a company offered two months of remote work to each and every employee during the year. So this was kind of a advantage for us when a pandemic happened, because you already have all the procedures, but also all the infrastructure that you need in place. So that basically we can be working remotely. But when I say working remotely, now this is the first thing that I would like to, to quickly cover and explain because people usually use a work from home and remote work is the same thing, but it’s actually not because remote work is usually when you basically work remotely from your original team, but it can be an office.

So, you know, basically let’s say you take three weeks to do some visit or anything, and you will maybe rent an office over there and work from the office. So working from home and remote work are definitely not the same. So that’s one thing that people should keep on their mind. And also tell the same when you have like a team of maybe 6, 7, 10 people working on a project and vinyl of them is remote or working from home. And then basically everybody’s.

So these are some differences that even we have experienced, even though we had it as part of our benefits before. So basically I would like to just go over a few things that we have experienced switch and actually feel that it would be nice to share with people who are working remotely. So basically one of the first things is you working from home, you need to make sure that you manage your own time and schedule properly.

There are basically two things that can happen. One is people postponing start of their actual work during the day, you know, and they always do the science of gals. And then they start working at 3:00 PM, which is good for our US-based bias because they will overlap with their working hours, but it’s maybe not really good for them and you know, their, their daily routine. And then the other trap that people fall in very often is that basically, you know, they just keep working.

They start working in the morning and it’s always like, you know, I’m at home, my laptop is open. So I will just try to do one more thing. And one more thing. So in general, it’s good to try to schedule your exact work hours and stick to them pretty much the same way as you would do. If you were working from the office, this is also very useful for your team members, because they will have some understanding when they can contact you. And then you are actually, you know, operative. So that’s, that’s, that’s one thing the other one is, as I mentioned, try to basically set your daily goals and to stick with them.

And then when you achieve it, you are done for today. Because again, when you are working from home, you can just, you know, continue and say, okay, I will just do this one more thing. And this one more thing, one more thing. And you know, very soon basically you realize that you are working all dates. This is not good for anybody because very soon it will become unproductive.

Speaker 1 (11m 40s): That’s true. And you burn out, you completely burn out. You know, they say about all work and no play makes Johnny a, a very adult boy. How have you been managing your own schedule and time? Are you able to make a schedule working from home and stick to it?

Speaker 2 (12m 2s): Well, to, to, to be honest, I’m kind of acception care because I live in the same apartment where our offices, so I worked from the office even during the pandemic. I worked from the office, but in general, yeah. I also try to follow these rules that I have. And maybe one more interesting one is basically making sure that you don’t have too many distractions. So for me, for example, you know, when I have important meetings or parts of the day, I read to be really focused and productive, I would switch from my home to my actual office and spend a couple of hours there.

So I don’t have distractions like TV or other family members coming in asking me questions and things like that. And then once I’m done, I can maybe move back to home and do some more casual or light work from home. My family, you know, just,

Speaker 1 (13m 2s): Well, not everyone has that advantage though. Philip, you know, I mean working from home and I certainly go through it myself, you know, you really never completely seemed to be off duty. How do you suggest people deal with that? Who can’t go upstairs to their office? Well,

Speaker 2 (13m 21s): Basically paid various option to try to create a home office. So obviously again, not everybody has enough space for it, but in general, it’s very good idea. You know, sometimes you can just use your bedroom and turn it into the office. And then the combined with my previous teams to have a regular work hours, basically, even your other family members you’ll know that maybe from nine to five, your bedroom is your office and they will not get inside and they will not interrupt you or bother you. And you will also feel a bit more normal, like, you know,

Speaker 1 (13m 54s): Good luck with good luck with that, by the way.

Speaker 2 (13m 57s): I know, I know it can be, it can be challenging, but, but yeah, another, another thing when we are talking about home office is a treatment. So what we have done in our company is basically the offered to all our employees to come and take any piece of equipment that they need and bring it home. And this can even be a desk and a chair. So not just like your visual Mysore monitor, but you know, in some cases, some of our team members actually, you know, came and took their chair because they need a comfortable space where they will not, you know, be working from their couch or from their bed.

And then Becky shows up to do this.

Speaker 1 (14m 34s): Now how about dealing with your team? Has that been a problem when, when people have been working at home?

Speaker 2 (14m 43s): Absolutely. I think that’s one of the crucial changes that people need to be aware of because starting from the, from the first minute you start your actual work, you know, when you come into the office, people actually see you and then they have to say hi, and you say hi, they know that you’re there, but basically when you are working remotely, it’s a very good practice to kind of check in. And when you start working, you know, just give a quick ping to your other teammates and tell them, Hey guys, I’m here. I started working. So they know that you’re available.

So that’s, that’s one thing. The other, the other is the actual, actual daily communication where you should, at least that’s what you recommend. You should try not to speak only with texting and emails, but actually try to do some, you know, voice calls with video on so that people can see you understand you and exchange much more information in much more efficient.

Speaker 1 (15m 40s): Okay. So what advice do you have for others when they’re setting up a home office? What equipment and tools will they need?

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): Well, basically, as I mentioned, like a good share is always, always a plus, but then some other things like, you know, having a proper monitor is very good thing because most of us have small laptops, which are, you know, easy to carry. But then if you are working for a longer period of time and in order to stay productive, in many cases, you will need more real estate on your points or more place for your apps or your CRO would be in our case and things like that. So that’s, that’s another thing then obviously, a good pair of headsets and headphones, because you will be spending a lot of time using DS when communicating with your team.

So it’s very crucial that they can hear you well and you can hit them. And this works without the needs issues and challenges. And as I said, basically, you can go and buy it, but you can also just go and pick it up from your office. I’m sure any other company would also have no issues if their employees would come and take some home?

Speaker 1 (16m 47s): Sure, sure. No. They want them to be productive. Right? Exactly. Okay. So what are the opportunities and advantages of working from home that people should be aware of?

Speaker 2 (16m 60s): Yeah. I mean, we were talking a lot about challenges, but they’re obviously plus and good things. Otherwise people would not stick to this. So from, from my experience, when I’m talking with our employees, one of the important topics for them is basically commuting time. So the time that they would spend or waste in traffic and again, in all the regions that we are working in parking space is a big issue also. So, you know, they would lose a lot of time in the traffic and then finding the parking space in this case, you know, you don’t lose this time and you can use it for anything else, like spending with your family or do some hobby, or like another thing, like we were talking about distractions at home, but there are also distractions at the office and I’m sure that everybody has experienced it.

You know, when you have people just popping into your office, asking you questions, or maybe asking your colleague questions, when we sitting next to you and then basically disrupting your, your focus and your productivity. So this is something that you will experience less here because litigation is a bit more structured and you have planned meetings where you will actually be talking about any, any important and important topics. One also very big advantage that we are utilizing and using lately is the fact that you can hire remote people.

So before even for us, it was like only people that can actually come and spend time physically in our office. But these days, you know, like right now I’m in team in Ukraine and we used to hire people who only live in queue, but nowadays we would hire people from other cities here and maybe get some really good experts, really good talents that he couldn’t reach other way. Hm.

Speaker 1 (18m 46s): And that’s, that’s gotta be a real attraction to potential employees that they can work from home.

Speaker 2 (18m 53s): Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Like for them, it’s a completely new market of opportunities because it’s not anymore, you know, you just need to look what companies are operating in your city or in your town, but you can work like, like we are having right now type of candidates that you’re hiring, they’re living in smaller towns and they are not willing to relocate, but they really appreciate the opportunity to work for a company like ours.

Speaker 1 (19m 25s): Sure, sure. Now, what is the state of affairs overall in the outsourcing space? Obviously we talked about working remotely and working from home, but what’s the, what’s the overall state of it. You know, the, it obviously is very fluid changes all the time, but where, where are things these days?

Speaker 2 (19m 53s): Well, basically these days, there is huge demand for more resources and manpower and talents. And basically we are seeing companies like crazing in different offers, including different benefits, get two good people on board and to not just get them, but also get them to stay and stick around for a longer period of time. And this is, this is something that, that are also doing, and this is something that is now also becoming kind of additional benefit for our clients where they don’t have to think about it.

Very, it’s basically our duty as a company to make sure that their team is happy, that they have good work conditions, that you know, that they are actively their projects within work, that old benefits they have entered the state because this is something that’s super important for most of our clients.

Speaker 1 (20m 51s): You guys have grown by leaps and bounds. You know, I’ve done some work for your company and I’ve watched you guys grow. And it’s, the growth has been crazy over the years. I remember when you had less than a hundred people and then it was one 15, then it was 200 last year when we did this interview, the other interview, it was two 50. And now you’re over three 50. What do you attribute the growth?

Speaker 2 (21m 21s): Well, basically VR doing, you’re doing two to two things and you’re trying to grow by two different models. One is expanding to new regions. So just this year we expanded to two more countries. So we are now operating in six countries in total, but the other one is also, you know, nurturing our existing offices and, you know, making sure that they feel valued and that also they get all the support that they need from us in order to grow, to grow more.

So it’s not just about opening the new offices and, you know, promoting this, but also making sure that your existing teams and offices are feeling good and that they will still recommend you to their friend or colleague and say, okay, come work here with us at,

Speaker 1 (22m 11s): Okay. Now you’re obviously always in recruitment mode. That’s, that’s pretty obvious to me. Why don’t you tell the people out there that are listening, who might be developers or customer service or other people that would be potential employees? Why, why should they work at Kwan talks?

Speaker 2 (22m 31s): Well, yeah, so phase you said we are, we are always, you’re always hiring. You’re always looking for good times. And you know, even, even if you don’t have exact a open spot or position in one of our teams, if we have application from somebody who we feel is a good to become our team member, we would just hire that person. And basically I would say it’s why would they come and work with us? I would say it’s combination of two things, at least based on the feedback that I’m getting from, from our team members, that’s company culture, where we try to keep it a stress, stress, peer environment.

And very, we try to basically make sure that every team member gets proper support, meaning that, you know, if you are a developer and working with us, you will have your project manager, you will have your HR, helping you with whatever you need. You will have your system admin here helping you with your equipment. You will have your Dell’s guy helping you with your dev stuff. So, you know, like you will really be able to focus and be the best, you know, you need to be best. And that’s the actual, the actual development. Second thing are our clients and our projects, which are amazing.

And as you know, we are working for a lot of industry leading companies and in adult space, especially this means, you know, working on a projects that are dealing with huge traffic, huge loads, where you really need to be on top of the game, you know, and be very scalable and be very secure and, you know, make sure that everything is working perfect all the time, but this is kind of adventure and something that’s challenging and something where, you know, every developer can grow.

Speaker 1 (24m 16s): Yes. As the CEO, I would imagine that your job responsibilities have changed a lot from the time that you had less than a hundred employees to having 350 plus, how have you dealt with,

Speaker 2 (24m 33s): Ah, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s always changing. Like actually yesterday I had long meeting with my CLL staff because we are just right now going in, going through one restructuring and basically, you know, adding some new positions and roles that we didn’t have before, but you realized that we are maybe missing them. And it’s a something where basically, you know, you really have to be careful and listen, what’s happening within your team.

And then react based on that. It’s not always easy to predict up front, but you need to react quickly. If you see that, you know, at some places you need to pay more attention that maybe somethings you need to do differently, you need to basically share the feedback from your team. That’s what you are trying to do. Just this, this January. I had personally one-on-one meetings with each and every one of my employees. So it was exhausting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25m 36s): How long, how long did that

Speaker 2 (25m 37s): Take? It was three weeks, four weeks, actually three and a half. I would say a lot of travel. So I, yeah, I was traveling to each and every country and city and talking to each and every employee and everybody had like 30 minutes with CEO to ask any questions, to give any feedback because you know, that can be very, very good. Both for them at me, it was great experience. I learned many things about us that maybe I didn’t know, and they had a chance to know, to ask any questions that they would like.

So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 9s): And, and I, you know, I know you and I know you well, and I know that you care and what you care about the most besides your family is your company and that, and that your company is doing everything that it should well along with your clients obviously. And that I’m sure that comes through to the employees. And that’s got to make a big difference when the CEO sits down and says, Hey, how are we doing? What could we do better?

Speaker 2 (26m 40s): Well, I, I believe so. I mean, that’s, that’s the reason why I decided to, to do it in this January. And that was like, because he had this whole pandemic thing, right. And I re I realized that there are too many people within our company that have actually started working during the pandemic. And they never, because like, when things are normal, you know, they would have like different team building activities. You’d have different company events and, you know, people could use these.

We have some meetups, people could use these to maybe, you know, spend a few minutes with me discuss about, you know, what’s, what’s going on in the company. What’s new and things like that. But since this was not happening, I realized that there are a lot of people who basically never had a chance to speak with me or some other of our C-level guys and, you know, just understand a bit better where they are, what we do, you know, maybe see a bit bigger picture of the company. Maybe hear a bit more about our clients, about their strategies, our plans.

But as I said, also for me, it was very, very useful to hear how they see us. Okay. And people were very honest and direct each.

Speaker 1 (27m 57s): That’s awesome. Now back to remote work homework, how about security? Okay. So you’re working from home from the point of privacy and security. What do people need to know and be okay,

Speaker 2 (28m 16s): When you are working from the office, you have much bigger support in this area and also much more limitations in this area, right? Because you are working on via Wi-Fi India is the secured. You are working on equipment that’s fully secure and things like that. When you are working from home, this is something that, to certain parts you need to take care of. So, but basically what I, what I learned and seen from experience is that sometimes even some very simple things like, like what I will give as a tip, number one to everybody is just, don’t leave your laptop at your coffee date.

Because like in last year I heard a lot of time. A lot of times, you know, just a simple things like, okay, so I got the coffee spilled on my laptop, so it’s not working. So I lost some of the daytime side, you know, or my kids just spilled something and things like that. So it sounds a bit silly, but trust me, trust me. Sometimes this can be a bigger danger than some, you know, experts, hackers will try to in your laptop. So yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s on the simple side of things, but basically I believe that there are some other things that you need to be very, very aware of and careful about starting with your document management, because basically a lot of confidential documents are now being shared and being worked on and contributed over middle Google docs or some other parts on you need to be very careful who you are sharing with and how you’re using it so that it doesn’t fall in the wrong hands.

Then there are some other things that people are not aware of. Like, for example, your calendar, which people are using extensively, when working from home, you need to be aware of that. It’s some new features. Google is actually by default showing the titles of your events to other people. So you find to, to book a meeting with you and basically try to see what are the empty spots and slots in your calendar. I will be able to see the titles of your meetings. So, yeah. So you need to be aware of that.

Speaker 1 (30m 29s): That’s another reason, another reason not to use Google for that.

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): You can obviously disabled this, you know, but I can see that many people don’t and then if you put the title, like, I don’t know, ending cooperation with, Quantock said that seat when I’m making a meeting with you, it can be kind of food center, embarrassing situation. So at least you’re ready.

Speaker 1 (30m 51s): At least you’re ready for it.

Speaker 2 (30m 53s): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then you need to be aware that, you know, if you are working from home or remotely, you’re using public wifi, this is the traffic that can be monitored, that can be intercepted and you should have your office VPN set up and use it all the time. When you are doing something that’s confidential report. Now,

Speaker 1 (31m 14s): What are the latest trends and how have they been affected or caused by the,

Speaker 2 (31m 20s): The pandemic? Yeah. Basically there are like few different models or platforms that are like really booming right now. I would say that’s probably the first one is anything related to subscription-based content gated content. So basically I believe that one of the reasons for this is just the fact that there are more content producers and there are more people who are willing to become content producers into current team and, you know, not being able to travel or do something else or, you know, events.

So this is definitely something very, we get a lot of requests for different type of subscription-based content platforms. Then the second one is definitely everything that has to do with live video. So any kind of live video streaming, we have seen like this industry being doubled in 2020, it was already huge. And there are some projections that the next five years it will grow to be $150 billion industry.

So really, really huge behind it. Another interesting thing, or figure that I have stumbled on recently is that at the moment 80% of all the internet bandwidth is being spent on liabilities. So yeah, that’s

Speaker 1 (32m 41s): Crazy.

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, just like, I would say one of the latest things that’s, that’s becoming a trend is a progressive web applications. They are here for a long time just to give a quick explanation, basically PWR or progressive web applications are websites that provide you a native application experience on a mobile phone, which means that you don’t have to actually go on app store on Google play to install the app, but you will have an icon on your, on your home screen and basically you can access it offline and you can basically have the whole experience of push notifications and other things just the same way as if you had installed application.

This is something that’s been here for some time, right. But just recently Google basically changed some of their integrations and some of the dating industry models are now no longer acceptable on their Google play store. And so people need to switch to this kind of model in order to keep their mobile traffic there. So this is asking that’s really, really,

Speaker 1 (33m 58s): I would imagine as limiting as apple is, and like you said, as much as Google is scale that that back the native apps have to be huge, right?

Speaker 2 (34m 8s): I always like need to have so always are always huge, you know, and it’s growing because mobile traffic is growing. So this is something that’s, that’s kind of, let’s say mandatory, but again, as I said, progressive apps are becoming very popular. And also because of the fact that you cannot put any adult content on any of the app stores, but if you create the progressive application, it can be shared on your website. It can be shared text messaging very easily and installed, or also it’s a bit more cost-effective because you call it only advanced compared to native applications I have to call was completely.

Speaker 1 (34m 46s): So that’s the main difference between a native app and a progressive app. I was just going to ask you that. Yeah. Yeah. So with, with the native app, you need to keep coding

Speaker 2 (34m 55s): Native app. Basically, you can just code it once, you know, you can have just one team of developers coded for you, and then, you know, you use it on both platforms, which is quite,

Speaker 1 (35m 6s): And how’s that different from the progressive app, just to, just to be clear.

Speaker 2 (35m 10s): Well, on basically that’s for the progressive that’s the

Speaker 1 (35m 13s): Progressive

Speaker 2 (35m 14s): <inaudible> on the progressive app. You code it only once, and then you use it on different platforms, like on apple and on Android phones, but for the native ones, you have to build them completely different way. Right? Yeah. This process is much more complex,

Speaker 1 (35m 33s): So that’s all, so that’s all going to be based on the, on basically browsers, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 (35m 40s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (35m 40s): Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Do you think there will be a time where progressive apps will just kind of take over?

Speaker 2 (35m 48s): That’s a very, very hard to predict, to be honest, I believe that they are taking more and more of the space in the mobile development, but we are still seeing also a lot of need for the, for the native patients themselves. So,

Speaker 1 (36m 4s): And that, and that will also work on laptops and desktops. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Learn something every time I talked to you, Phillips, what would your advice be? So we’re prepared for what’s ahead of us.

Speaker 2 (36m 19s): Well, yeah, as you can see, there are like a lot of changes. And basically what we have the best in last two years is something that people like to call forced to digitalization. There are basically a lot of things that maybe would take years to happen happened in months. This is a good from some point of view, but also what we are seeing is many unstable products and many unsecured products because of the needs to build up quickly. So I, I believe, you know, one of the things to be aware of is that, you know, if you are building a new product and of course you want it to build quickly, you need to keep your eyes on that.

The dose of things, making a stable, making it safe because you know, later on it can really, really become an issue for you. And then if you’re talking, if you’re talking about, about the future proof platforms, what is basically starting to become kind of a standard is multi experience development. And this is something that we are actually promoting strongly in last year. So just to explain quickly, what it means is these days you are getting much more touch points and different devices that you can use for the same activity.

So you use not just your mobile phone and your laptop. You can also use your virtual glasses. You can use any other variable, like smartwatch, voice assistance, chatbots, a lot of different things. And basically it’s not idea anymore that you just are able to install and use the same software on all of these. It has to be consistent. So basically it tests you be built in a such way where I can start the process on one device and then continue it to another and finish and third run and do it all seems.

So this is multi experienced development. And this is something that, you know, we are encouraging our clients to adapt because it’s becoming kind of standard. So like very, very simple example would be Netflix obligation where you can start watching the movie on your laptop and then finish on your smart TV. And you don’t have to think, you know, what was the last episode that I had seen or where did I stop or things like that. So they, they become like, people get used to these kinds of simple things very quickly.

And you know, then if they are missing them, it’s very disappointing.

Speaker 1 (38m 52s): Yeah. And I, and I know I noticed that that’s already the case on, for instance, on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (38m 60s): Yeah. Yeah. All the bigger platforms are adopting these and trying to follow this as, as a trend, then all the food delivery apps that you are working, reaches e-commerce platforms. You can start your shopping on one device. You are maybe interrupted. You want to continue that later on each all has to be like 40 plus.

Speaker 1 (39m 20s): Interesting, interesting. Again, I learned a lot every time we talk, Phillip, well, Hey, I’d like to thank you once again for being our guest on adult side broker talk, and I’m looking forward to, to part three at some point in the near future.

Speaker 2 (39m 37s): Oh, it’s great talking to you and always happy when you invite me to one of these, one of these stocks and looking forward to that time, me too,

Speaker 1 (39m 46s): My broker tip today has to do with what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, this will be a multi-part series first, make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic’s expensive. Whether it’s search engine, traffic, review, site, traffic, or affiliate traffic, you paid a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is you want your visitors to do in the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay in north America.

Most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world credit cards, aren’t used nearly as much in Europe. For instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from in Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing countries. Many people pay by mobile, do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions you get. Most of your traffic it’ll make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, had them want to buy, but since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t.

If you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this is to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate. People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies, where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user, you poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out.

Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site next, make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer, isn’t good. You won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact your, to get more information that make the offer attractive and easy to understand, if you’re selling something, make buying easy, show them an easy way to buy and then leave, help them by making suggestions on what to buy.

amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this. If you can, don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to do. It’s not that hard. Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process, like a human being, whatever you do, don’t turn over that process to your designer.

Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end. It will not give you what it is. You’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be talking again to freelance writer, Michael McGrady. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Filip from Quantox Technology. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with professor and author Edward Shorter.

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You can find the hanky panky podcast@hankypankypodcast.com and wherever fine can be hurt. Now, time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker talk is professor Edward shorter. Edward, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk as you to be here. Pleasure to have you. Now, Edward shorter has been studying sexuality for many years. His first book about it written in the flesh, a history of desire won several awards.

His new book Stormy’s world is really volume. Two of that series, and it’s about the adult entertainment industry. As a pipeline into sexuality, producer’s conceive themes to make money, and they have an exquisite sense of what the market wants. The book is a history of the adult entertainment industry from the early days to the present and emphasizes the enormous increase in the availability of porn to a worldwide audience. The shift in themes from missionary position to every style of erotic activity imaginable.

And for men in command to women, increasingly playing an equal role. New themes include the explosion of fetish and role playing and porn and the alignment of taste among heterosexuals, gays and lesbians toys and camming are not strictly pornography, but they have chapters as well. The book also discusses the recruitment of models and their treatment in the industry. The book closes on a note that finds adult increasingly female friendly and approaching the status of mainline journalism.

His next book in the series will be porn goes global. He’s a professor of history at a major north American university. Now Edward, there have always been dirty pictures as it were. What’s new about,

Speaker 2 (4m 40s): Oh, what’s new about corn? Is it, it turns into an industry as you observed. There’ve always been dirty pictures going back to the walls of the caveman, but you start to get a proper industry after the second world war with, let me just back up for a second. Insurance porn, visual porn is much more exciting than porn in print and because of freedom of the press, there have always been dirty novels time dreadfuls and they couldn’t really be prosecuted for obscenity.

And that’s what men in general usually read. They picked up these dime dreadfuls and got excited by them. They didn’t have access to images because I was sending images across state lines counted as obscenity, and it wouldn’t be defense wet after pornographic images, right up until Supreme court legislation said that we’re going to let community guidelines determine what is.

And so at that point in federal prosecutions of obscenity pretty well came to an end. So in the sort of pre federal obscenity days, there were producers people such as rest of Meyer. For example, the immortal T’s 1959 shot in 35, rather than a eight millimeter. And going back to the 1920s producers had shot loops and eight millimeter loops being things that you could go into the dirty bookstore and you for a quarter, a pop and the quality was terrible.

And of course there was an audio, but, but at least they were better than print. So this kind of thing had always existed. And then later in the 1960s, early the 1970s producers started making feature length films and they shot on 35 rather than eight, which is always a bit of a perilous undertaking because you don’t know until you review the footage, whether what you got on 35 as usable or not just came to an end with the advent of monitors on cameras in the 1980s, but 35, it was much better for using movie theaters.

And so the early industry shot a feature length porn for movie industries and this all, all this story begins in New York and in New York, because basically that’s where there were a lot of beautiful women and people willing to take chances on this new art forum. And so people like sessile Howard, for example, directed some early productions on a refresher. ARD was a well known actor, Gloria Leonard, candida Royal.

These were all actors whose careers began in New York before moving out to the coast. And there certainly involvement with crime at this point as well. Al Goldstein for example, was the editor of screw magazine. Goldstein had all kinds of industry connections. Her Damiano who produced deep throat was financed by a mobster Rubin Rubin Sterman, who was an important distributor, had to have a mafia connections.

And then, and they did in the sixties and in the 1970s, the story moves to San Francisco and Alex Derenzy who are brought to this country, the hardcore porn film corn in Denmark. Cause he went over to Denmark and bought it. And that is aired in the us in 1970. And that would probably be the first really hardcore feature-length pouring film in San Francisco as well.

There were the, the Mitchell brothers

Speaker 1 (9m 6s): I grew up in, I grew up in San Francisco by the way. So I’m very well aware of the Mitchell brothers and their, and their, and they’re sorted history.

Speaker 2 (9m 13s): Okay. Yeah. Well, one of the Mitchell brothers killed eight other. It started history, but then in San Francisco turned out to be not ideal for a number of reasons. And so the straight hetero side of the industry moves from San Francisco down to LA to Chatsworth, which is in Los Angeles county, but it’s not in LA as such. And this is important because the LA cops were just death on obscenity and they made life hell for people to try to tried to base themselves in LA.

Speaker 1 (9m 47s): That’s why they ended up in Chatsworth. Wow.

Speaker 2 (9m 50s): Well, that’s one of the reasons, the other reason for Chatsworth rather than some other site in, well, such as California, was that you had this huge pool of filmmaking talent in Hollywood. Oh yeah. The makeup people, the camera people, they were all in Hollywood for the mainline industry and they were happy to drive up to Chatsworth and Moonlight for a few extra bucks. And so that was really crucial in determining Chatsworth as a location and so Chatsworth.

And there was a big ranch nearby where some shooting took place, became the epicenter in the late 1960s of the porn industry. It was called the Iverson ranch actually. Did you know the new, the Irish and ranch?

Speaker 1 (10m 44s): I don’t know a lot of this and this, this is fascinating. So please go and go on.

Speaker 2 (10m 49s): Cool. Well, and so Chatsworth was not entirely Virgin territory. So to speak for point a there had been porn magazines that had been produced in Chatsworth from the 1950s on Milton. Laura Rose was an editor for a couple of adult magazines. And, and so in Chatsworth feature link porn film started to be produced.

The sadistic hypnotist is really the first feature linked hardcore porn in 1969, Mona the Virgin nymph 1970. And it took off from there, no balloon launched a Cabalero cover yarrow controlled in 1974. They were a big producers. And, and now some of the familiar names in porn, they start to appear on this screen in Chatsworth, John Holmes, for example, there was this enormous penis, 14 inches, Maryland, Bruce, and so on irresistible, for example, featured them in 1980.

So that’s sort of sets the background for the creation of adult filming as a real industry. And the inflection point here is the foundation in 1984 by Steven Hirsch, a vivid video, right? And the story was that his father, Fred Hirsch had been an executive for Stormer. And so that got gave Steven the open end of the industry or, and in 1984, he and a sidekick founded vivid video.

And that vivid turns into a big deal and they produce a lot of footage and they bring in, for example, the practice of having vivid girls, I hate to call them girls, but that’s the standard. So young women who would become IX models exclusively for vivid, and they would get that would be a big career boost for them. And that would give vivid it kind of identification point for the public as well in the 1980s and the big migration from New York to the San Fernando valley to chess where it begins.

And some of the important figures that come out are, are Ray and our repairs yard. And the thing then becomes a very substantial commercial opportunity becomes a very substantial industry. Interesting.

Speaker 1 (13m 28s): Wow. Now from your studies, what do people find so appealing about

Speaker 2 (13m 35s): What people find appealing about porn is that it enlarges the erotic imagination. You don’t reach adolescents with a big erotic imagination. You don’t know all the interesting things out there to do, but you basically in the backseat of somebody’s car is the missionary position, maybe a hand job or a blow job, but that would be the end of it. But of course, adult sexuality is much richer than that. And people who’ve become bored with the missionary position and want to expand the erotic imagination consume porn.

Of course, they masturbate to it as well. It’s this notion of new themes. Plus masturbation that drives forward, the discovering of new themes and point is just filled with exciting new themes. And we can get into that in a bit if you want, but this is the basic motor masturbation fueling the discovery of things like anal intercourse, which you don’t discovering the backseat of somebody’s car, fueling threesomes fueling the whole world of role-playing is it’s now called BDSM or SNM, which you definitely don’t get into as an adolescent golden showers.

These are all themes that many adults find interesting and delightful, but they didn’t know about right. We didn’t have dream to them. They could be a lot of fun to be tied up or to tie somebody else up. And to flag them were to be flogged. This could be a really interesting kind of erotic activity, as opposed to Gestapo like torture. This is what drives the story for it. All of these expanding 400 sexual activity and the enthusiasm out there in the real world about discovering them.

Speaker 1 (15m 28s): So Edward, have there been changes in themes featured in adult films and sites such as fetish role-play

Speaker 2 (15m 36s): Oh, there’ve been big changes since the 1970s pre 1970, some of these things were unheard of being forced to do something. For example, as a man, this scenario is that you are submissive and you are being dominated by a woman and she forces you to do things that you is, Hey, a normal man would never do such as to cross dress as a woman or to have a homoerotic experience to go down on another man. But she forces you to do this now reality.

These are things that you really wrong and to do that you are just very reluctant to be upfront about, Hey, I’d really like to go down on another man. No, most adult heterosexual men don’t say that, but they will do it if they’re forced to do it. And so the thrill here is the experience of domination being dominated and being forced to do something that you otherwise wouldn’t do. And so this whole world of BDSM role-playing SNM really opens up after the 1970s.

Of course there are, has been dominant women and catering to fetishistic tastes in men that is not new. And women in leather, for example, goes back to the 1920s. But this turns into a whole sort of scene after the 1970s, as BDSM becomes a major theme. And now, regardless of the content of the particular porn flick, it’s unusual to find models who are not wearing boots.

And this would have been very much a kind of marginal tastes before 1970s, there were rebooted and then before the seventies, but this wasn’t their rigor as a industry garner before in front of the camera. After the 1970s, the booted a woman becomes a standard kind of a trope in front of a camera, whether she’s doing an actual, a BDSM scene or not. So that shows the extent to which the sort of BDSM flavor comes to dominate the entire scene, but there are other new themes as well, this whole business about domination and submission.

And although it existed before the ninth, 1870s was never a big and pre-modern point. It becomes huge after the seventies. And it goes very much hand in hand with the changing position of women in society. Women in the real world don’t necessarily become dominant, but they become cool equal. They get out of the subordinate positions, they were in for so many decades. And this is a natural expression of the woman of the woman’s equality in the real world that in bed, she would play the role of dominant as long as she has a partner who wants to be submissive and in the real world as well.

There are a lot of women now who wear leather as street garb, and it turns men on it makes them feel powerful and Hey, why not? They are powerful. So, yeah. So this becomes a kind of coloration that flavors, the entire industry. So of levels, there are our new themes. That’s the basic point. Okay.

Speaker 1 (19m 8s): Okay. Now you talked about the changing role of women in society and you’re right. There are powerful. We’ve got a woman as the vice president of the United States. Do you think Kamela Harris has any leather pants? I don’t know. We’ll have to ask her that anyway. How about adult models and how they present themselves? How does that relate to the

Speaker 2 (19m 30s): Well adult models is something that sounds glamorous to women in little towns in Arkansas, going out to Chatsworth and having all kinds of high powered sexual experiences. And Hey, why not? You would like to have sex. You have a bit of an exhibitionistic streak in you. So you get on the bus and the bus stops in Chatsworth and you get off in a career important begins. And it’s just something a lot of young women become quite excited about.

And it’s not that they’re necessarily disillusioned about a third of them, of the new recruits get out of the industry after making, after a couple of shoots because they just like this kind of sex. There’s no foreplay. They are having sex with men when they’d never laid eyes on before they are being choked out. For example, by men who are actually strangers, although choking women out now is sort of frowned on in the industry, but it used to be not uncommon that the male model would reach out and choke the female as part of an expression of his dominance.

And then this became viewed very poorly than in the industry. And it went out of style, but there, there are lots of things about working in the industry that can turn women off. And so about a third of them quit because they don’t like it. Now, a number of other women do stay around for one reason because the money can be fairly good. Yes. If you shoot regularly, you will make a lot more than you would make working in the final of nom.

And as well, you have the possibility of moving from the front of the camera to the back as a PR or a director, or doing something else behind the camera and behind the camera. There’s a real kind of comradery, a real social scene in which you become friendly with people. And if you come to feel yourself as part of a community, and you don’t necessarily feel a part of a community as a model where you don’t have a lot of prestige, for sure there was a questionnaire a couple of years ago, people in the industry would ask, would you like your daughter to go into the industry?

And a number of people said, yeah, behind the camera, sure. Produce your director doing some other behind the camera function. Why not? Nobody said that they wanted their daughters to become models, right? And models have a very low social status and they try to move out of that rule as soon as they can, unless they are just spectacularly successful. There are these women like Gloria Leonard, for example, there candidate Royal who spent their lives in the industry and made a lot of money and became famous.

So if you are, if the next candidate Royal, then Hey, great. But most women are not sure.

Speaker 1 (22m 35s): Sure. Now obviously porn was once considered to be anti-woman. Is it still that way in your view, for instance, we have female producers like Erica lust, they’ve added greatly to the, to the female porn audience. No,

Speaker 2 (22m 53s): I think how long is definitely seems to be anti-woman. There was a certain point at which women were really just objects of male desire. Let’s say, who would lie there passively while the man did his thing. And that would be the end of the story. And there were a lot of guys who were like watching that because it, it was fun to watch and they would themselves get off in their bathrooms, but it wasn’t something that was empowering for women in any way.

And then women start start getting involved on their production side, right? Holly Randall, for example, Nina girlfriend’s films. These are all sort of names to conjure with, for if we’re talking about women who are becoming empowered in porn, rather than just being passive objects as models. And so that is one way in which pulling those become female friendly.

A lot of women produce images that they know other women will respond to filming sexual activities that they know will turn on their female viewers. And that’s the difference between female produced porn and a lot of male produced porn men don’t have a big erotic imagination in the area of what turns women on. Of course, women know this implicitly. And so this is what gets women now into the business of producing corn.

They’re producing for other women and

Speaker 1 (24m 33s): Couples.

Speaker 2 (24m 35s): Sure. For a couple of, but if you’re producing for couples, you’re producing something that the female part of that coupled is going to respond to. Yes,

Speaker 1 (24m 44s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (24m 45s): And so this is very big today. Women is directors and producers, and even women as models playing a dominant role. For example, in a BDSM scene, a lot of women like doing that, they respond to it. It means that they don’t necessarily have to have sex. Not every woman in the world likes the idea of being penetrated by, in an anonymous male, but in BDSM, there’s not necessarily penetration, right. The guy gets off responding in things are things like boot worship, nipple play, right?

And so these are all themes that empower women in the camera, or indeed in, even in front of the camera, if they’re playing the role of a dominant tricks in a way that’s very different from just lying there and being penetrated by an anonymous nail. Right.

Speaker 1 (25m 36s): Right. And of course, when you talk about women being empowered, there’s a shift in the entire industry. When you talk about the clip and fan sites.

Speaker 2 (25m 46s): Yeah. These fan sites have become a big business for sure. And a lot of those are female initiated videos that these, these clips are taken from our female initiated videos or videos in which women really are the main stars and the guide very much secondary.

Speaker 1 (26m 8s): Yeah. If there’s guys, if there’s guys in it at all, I mean the women have really taken the, the women, the, well, the models, I should say because there’s men too, but the models have really taken the power with these, with these clip and, and fan sites.

Speaker 2 (26m 23s): Yeah. That’s for sure. And these fan sites are heavily inter woven with BDSM.

Speaker 1 (26m 32s): Well, there’s a lot of it. Yeah. There’s a lot of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26m 35s): That’s a huge thing. It’s not just a missionary position penetration. Right,

Speaker 1 (26m 40s): Right. Yeah. Or, or, or just glamour shots or just, you know, nudity or sometimes there’s no nudity.

Speaker 2 (26m 49s): Yeah. Anything, in other words, it might appeal to the male or female erotic imagination and you buy a piece of a fan site for relatively little money. You don’t have to subscribe to a service. There’s no big financial investment and it’s, it gives you enough time to get off.

Speaker 1 (27m 10s): Exactly. Now obviously gay porn is, is, is very big. What changes have you seen in gay porn over the years?

Speaker 2 (27m 18s): A big theme in gay and lesbian porn is the convergence of tastes with hetero porn. And one of the tastes that converges in gay and lesbian porn is fetish and domination. These are huge themes in gay porn, the leather man and the leather man doesn’t appear in gay porn until the 1960s before the 1960s, there was of course gay porn, but it tended to portray gaze as a feminine.

That’s why the gays were once called Nancy’s or Nancy, because the idea was that they would in the gay bars, they would address each other as Nancy and then go home and cross dress. And they had our outfits. So we’d let them dress it up as women basically. And this was the world of gay sex before about the 1960s. And then Stonewall happened 1968. And all of a sudden the leathered flown appears on the scene that muscular gay man with wearing a harness, leather jeans, boots, anything but a Nance, anything but a queen.

And so this is the gateway that has survived up until today. The gay gay man is identifying with a leather man featuring fetish. Interestingly, the same thing seems to have happened within the lesbian community within the lesbian community. Dominant submissive was one. So a big theme, the submissive addressing dressing up sort of Israel girls and the dominant Butch lesbians dressing like Workman living tough in other words.

So that’s a, that’s a lesbian trope that goes way back in time. And then this is a much more recent development in the lesbian community. Around the 1980s lesbians start turning out in leather. The leather lesbian becomes a kind of standard image. And this is a convergence with what’s happening in the gay world is the convergence that’s happening in the hetero world that they all are developing more or less the same sexual style.

Speaker 1 (29m 47s): Now what about the transgender market? That’s gotten very big. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (29m 53s): Well, the transgender market is huge now and transgender is very popular or among people who are even thinking about transgendering. And why is that? Well, this is an interesting question because this seems to start in adolescence because in the schools today are on the cusp of adolescence. Lots of kids are starting to say that they feel like a male burned inside a female body, or they feel like a female worn inside a male body.

And this is becoming today almost epidemic. Now whether this corresponds to a real desire for transgendering or whether this is just a fad remains to be seen. I think a lot of this is probably a fad. Like the Hulu it’ll go away, but it’s not all going to go away because there clearly is something in the human psyche, the craves and alternative kind of sexual experience alternative in the sense that you really are a woman born inside a male body, blah, blah, blah.

And of course, this was deeply, deeply tabooed before about the 1980s. And then it starts to take off. And this is why transgender porn is such a big deal because guys and women who themselves have, might thought only vaguely about some kind of transgender experience, see some of this transgender porn and say, Hey, this is what I want. We talked earlier about expanding the sexual experience.

This is an example of what we’re talking about. You would have probably a big inclination of some kind, and then you see it kind of in concrete form in front of you on the screen. And you realize, Hey, this is what I want. It’s a transformative kind of experience that porn makes possible.

Speaker 1 (31m 52s): Sure. Like a lot of other experiences that that porn makes possible, like, like you talked about now talk about the shift away from porn valley to places like Vegas, Phoenix, other spots in the U S and all over the world. Now, obviously the condom laws in California had something to do with that. Why else?

Speaker 2 (32m 15s): I think one of the things that makes possible the migration of porn away from Chatsworth away from the valley is the development of new technology with a relatively small investment in a video camera, you can shoot production quality stuff, and you can do this anywhere in the world. You don’t have to be important valley to do this. And if you are able to mobilize a makeup artist and a wardrobe consultant, and Hey, these people are everywhere.

Makeup artists are everywhere. If you can get her a couple of auxiliary personnel on your team, you can do, you can shoot porn as easily in Romania as in Chatsworth. Sure. And you pay people a lot less. It’s cheap to shoot porn in Romania in Chatsworth, it’d be a thousand bucks, a pop for female talent. And it’s much cheaper in Europe and not to say Latin America. So the, the ease of shooting is one theme.

Another theme is that men and women like to see porn models, porn actors, that they can identify with. And if you are in Bucharest, for example, and you see a couple of bunnies from San Diego in the screen, that’s okay. That’s exciting to some extent, for sure, but it’s a lot more exciting if you know that they are from around the corner and if they’re speaking Romanian, so this huge attraction.

So we’re talking now about mobilizing these new audiences in just about every part of the world, including places that officially are very, anti-porn such as China and India

Speaker 1 (34m 5s): And Thailand,

Speaker 2 (34m 9s): Thailand, military government, moving in the direction of enlarge, enlarging, their erotic horizons. This is a sort of universal human experience, universal human phenomenon that both men and women feel the need of this kind of enlarge and it’s happening globally now. And it didn’t use to happen globally. The typical Indian male in the 1950s didn’t really think a lot about enlarging his erotic horizons, but with the internet, with the fact that communication and social media communication in general is globalizing.

The awareness of new erotic tastes is also being globalized. And I think that this is what is driving this story internationally.

Speaker 1 (34m 59s): Now, Edward and near estimation, how hard is it to find people to work in the adult space these days,

Speaker 2 (35m 6s): Every year, there’s a new crop of 18 year olds put it that way. You can’t obviously work in the industry unless you’re 18, but a whole new crop of young women turns 18 every year. And they find the idea of modeling in front of the camera, kind of glamorous makeup, the outfits you get to meet all kinds of interesting new people that you wouldn’t meet necessarily and sleepy valley Arkansas.

And so the thing, the whole thing appears very glamorous. And so there’s never a shortage of models, even though the models may end up going to New York or going to Miami or Las Vegas rather than to LA similarly, I mean, it’s never hard to find people to work behind the camera as long as the money is, right. So that’s not really an issue, but if there’s global competition now, then the money may not be right.

If you have all these, if you have this variety of offerings out there coming from Italy, coming from Peru, or coming from Miami, the monopoly that Chatsworth used to have and producing Purim R for top dollar has vanished. A very little point is now shot in Chatsworth as opposed to all of it 20 years ago. Yeah. So I don’t think that recruitment of talent is a big issue in the industry.

The issue of competitiveness competing against people from Romania is a big issue,

Speaker 1 (36m 48s): Right? Yeah. A lot shot in a Czech Republic. These days, that’s a big market as well. Now models used to be obviously people in porn in general used to be degraded and looked down upon what’s your view about now?

Speaker 2 (37m 7s): The models started to fight back. They were edited and looked down on and abused, quite frankly, physically abused. And now the industry really is very much changing. I don’t have a union. For example, there are codes of conduct that are promulgated that say, you may not be violent with the models. You may not abuse their human rights. You should let them know in advance.

What will be expected of them is anal involved or not. That’s something models really do want to know in advance. And there are formal contracts that are signed that stipulate. Exactly what is going to happen in this shoot. This is empowering for the models and it’s limiting for the directors and producers, because it means that they can’t go on and do whatever it is they really would like to do, or whether the model is given consent or not. She’ll bloody well do it. But this business about show blood I’ll do it is, is not over right

Speaker 1 (38m 11s): Now. What do you think would happen in the U S if a right wing Repub Republican Congress came in, do you think they’d bring in a lot of new anti obscenity legislation, these

Speaker 2 (38m 24s): Aboriginal obscenity legislation hasn’t changed. It’s still not legal to shoot things that are judged to be obscene by the courts, but definition of obscenity has narrowed dramatically so that we now consider community standards to be the determinant of what is obscene. And so it’s not really the Congress that would have a rule here. It’s the executive office, it’s the department of justice was suddenly start prosecuting for obscenity.

Previously would not have been considered obscene, and this could easily happen under a right wing presidency. It didn’t happen under Trump because he had no interested in this. Even though she said, we’ve got to do something about porn. He wasn’t interested in that at all. It wasn’t part of his agenda. And he himself, I don’t think he ever admitted to being a big porn consumer, but he probably was. And he had friends in the industry.

It was just inconceivable that the DOJ under Trump was going to crack down on porn. And, and they didn’t. But if we get a new right wing president, he or she might be capable of ordering the DOJ to do something about porn, to start looking at obscenity much more closely than they have been. And that would be bad news for the industry, for sure.

Speaker 1 (39m 56s): No two ways about it. Now, how did you being an academic historian get into this?

Speaker 2 (40m 6s): Well, I have always been interested in social history and that means the history of the family and so forth. The history of sexuality is part of the history of the family decades ago. I wrote a book about the history of family life that became well known in the field. And I kept going back to the subject of the family and so forth. And so it’s just, if you are interested in sort of the nitty-gritty of social life in the family, you’ll be, I’m interested in sexuality because that’s one of the things that the family does control sexuality.

And that then was what led me to write this general history of sexuality written in the flesh that came out, I think in 2005. And the book was a big success because there had never previously been a history of sexuality, but the book took things up to about 1970. And then it started to Dawn on me. After the book came out, that things in the sexual world really were changing very dramatically.

Some of the changes like the advent of a BDSM, for example, or a leather fetish as huge themes for otherwise normal people or forced sexuality males being forced to do this forced to do that, that didn’t exist before 1978. I certainly didn’t mention it in the book. And I thought, well, you know, I think maybe it was time for me to take on this. A bigger reason changes in sexuality and to write about that, but how do you study that and understand that point?

That I discovered porn, that I realize that porn is a very real and immediate reflection of changing sexual tastes in the real world because producers and directors want to produce stuff that sells that’s there about a month. And so they are very, very sensitive to changes in market tastes. And if certainly elites in the market are now saying, Hey, we’d like to see more on fetish, or we’d like to see some more stuff on forced sexuality.

They’re going to start producing it, but in phase two, but once they start coring out a BDSM or a cross-dressing cross-dressing or whatever, a lot of people out there in the real world are going to be exposed to these states for the first time. Yes. And they are going to respond very positively because Hey, it never even occurred to me that a male cross-dressing might be possible. Look at that guy. He’s wearing stockings in high heels, and he’s got on a corset that could be kind of fun.

There are a lot of men will find that kind of fun. There are a lot of prostitutes, for example, whoever in their closets, wigs and high Eagles in large sizes hoes that their male clients can put on. And then you prostitute, I hate the term prostitute and then the escort or the provider, as we say today, and then the provider does their makeup for them. And then they go out and have a cup of coffee at a cafe. And for him, that’s the highlight of the sexual experience.

Sitting there looking like a woman with a, your dominant supervisor in front of you. And, and that’s it. They don’t have sex. There’s no penetration. The guy doesn’t get off. That was the core of the experience. The crushed, these are tastes that are very much new, nothing like this happened before 1970. And it’s been a very exciting experience for many men in particular, do examples that I’ve been using.

I sort of nailed examples, but there are female examples, for example, in the real world, about a third of all, women have a real interest in bisexuality. And real-world the percentage of men with an interest in bisexuality is much smaller. Yes. So that means that you have this big pool of women with this, these latent interest in bisexuality who will respond to female produced videos featuring bisexual scenes.

Yes, it’s my girlfriend’s films in Montreal. For example, going directly after that market, trying to get these latent bisexual women of whom there are an enormous number. So these are various ways in which the market has exploded.

Speaker 1 (44m 49s): Well, Edward, it’s been very, very interesting to go through the history of this business with you. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon. Likewise,

Speaker 2 (45m 4s): Bruce lovely talking

Speaker 1 (45m 5s): With you. It’s a pleasure. My broker tip today is part seven. I’m how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement and escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owners participation will be after the sale, you’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things.

If you don’t have experience in these things, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult business consulting. You can get more information on what this company does@adultbusinessconsulting.com. We help website owners, project manager, and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting, payments, production, scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help. Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website.

If you don’t have someone like our general consulting company to help evaluate all of those items and everything, the site is spending money on and using to operate the website, make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better hosting. There’s a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service. Many times the server is just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website.

Next week we’ll talk about how to sell a website and next week we’ll be talking to Filip of Quantox Technology. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Edward Shorter. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with

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The site consists of user uploaded content. There are over 30,000 videos and retention rate is 85%, only $274,000. Next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, coral and Juul interview Eric Monte and adult industry actor from the golden era who went from a social studies teacher to a porn performer. You can find the hanky panky podcast@hankypankypodcast.com and wherever fine podcasts can be heard.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adults say broker talk is adult industry writer, Ralph Greco for his second appearance on our podcast. Ralph, thanks for being with us again today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (3m 3s): Thanks for having me again. It’s wonderful beer. It

Speaker 1 (3m 5s): Is great to have you again. Now. Ralph Greco Jr. Is a professional writer of blogs, columns, reviews, interviews, fiction, poetry songs, SEO copy. I’m going to run out of breath here. And one act plays for both mainstream and adult clients. Ralph Short fiction, poetry and essays have been published in eight countries in major market magazines and small press in various anthologies and single author. Short story collections. Ralph’s one act plays have been published in a complete collection as well as produced across the U S is self pen self-produced salicious songs and dirty words.

Theaters show love that name has been performed off Broadway in New York city. In fact, it was so off Broadway. The theaters were almost in Jersey. Ralph was also an ASCAP licensed songwriter and recording artists. And with fellow writer am Christian teaches classes across the U S at kink convictions conventions, not convection ovens. Now Ralph’s new music site can be found at Ralph Greco, music.com and his podcast is titled licking non vanilla.

Now, Ralph I’m sure during the quarantine people just assume your clients would be needing more content and copy than they ever have before. Have you found that to be the case?

Speaker 2 (4m 28s): I don’t know. I mean, both types of clients mainstream and adults seem to, it seems to be split. You know, some people certainly wanted to up their, their content. Then they came out of the woodwork to do so. And that’s on both sides of the coin, but, and others, others, not a lot. Some, a lot of people certainly initially I would say in the first six months or so circle the wagons, so to speak and said, you know, we don’t, we don’t even know what’s going to be happening here.

So we were not sure. So I felt maybe it’s loosening up a little bit now, but I found both things happening, you know, soliciting some new clients that were jumping on board immediately. And the others said, no, I have to take a, take a step back because we don’t really know what’s going to happen. Wow.

Speaker 1 (5m 15s): Okay. Yeah. Now when it, when it comes to your fiction writing, are you incorporating the pandemic Intuit or just pretty much ignoring it?

Speaker 2 (5m 25s): You know, it’s a, that’s a tough one. That’s, I’m having a hard time, there’s a series or a couple of science fiction pieces that I’ve been writing and I’ve been trying to, and they take place with you now or in the near future. And I’m having a hard time with how to incorporate that. If I want to incorporate it in a role, in some instances, I mean, some essays that I’m writing these days, if, if they, if they have a little bit of a political bent to them or, or, or cultural bent with, they usually do, or the blogs, it’s, it’s impossible to ignore what’s happening right now in those instances.

But I don’t know. I don’t know how I feel about the pandemic, querying the fiction at this point. I’d rather ignore it because it’s a lot of people

Speaker 1 (6m 11s): Wouldn’t we all

Speaker 2 (6m 14s): Right. There’s a lot of pieces that, that I, that I have that I’m not finished with yet. And it just doesn’t fit in there. So I’m going to be, I don’t know. It’s just so you can’t, like you just said, you can’t ignore it, but at the same time, I like to feel that I could, I could create worlds that not even, you know, not even worlds other than this, our own, but worlds where we’re this kind of a hyper reality where maybe certain things just don’t don’t exist at the moment. That’s all. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (6m 42s): Yeah. Yes. Sometimes, sometimes fiction is, is a lot nicer than reality.

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): That’s for sure. Certainly. Now,

Speaker 1 (6m 51s): Are there any trends in content that you see people needing and wanting more of recently because of the pandemic?

Speaker 2 (6m 59s): That’s a good question. I don’t know. I don’t know if anything’s actually changed other than we, you know, before we, even, you and I have talked about this off the air and, and on the air, of course, too, that the, that there there’s a niche quality to what we do in the, in the adult world. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s more ma there are certainly more vanilla mainstream stuff and then very niche stuff. If I think if I see anything that’s been coming across recently, and this may or may not be because people are, have more time to sit down and really concentrate on what they’re, what they want and what they’re looking for, and maybe go deeper into the rabbit hole of that kind of thing thing.

I think that it seems in just in my little corner of the world, that niche content seems to be on the rise a little bit more than, than just regular, you know, good old vanilla. Okay. So I would say, but then again, that could just be a faded complete in my world because it’s kind of the stuff I gravitate towards. So I may be looking for that and not even realizing that, that I make that happen anyway. Funny how that works. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly, certainly. Okay.

Speaker 1 (8m 10s): So lately you’ve managed to place a good amount of nonfiction for outlets like killing kittens and the laundry addict that are not only run by women, but are buying content that features, or is centered around a feminine perspective. And how does a hetero guy, like you write about such things?

Speaker 2 (8m 30s): Well, you know, it’s because I’m so evolved. That’s what it felt like.

Speaker 1 (8m 37s): I like

Speaker 2 (8m 38s): It. I’m so woke. I want to go back to sleep. That’s a little, you know, I don’t know. I think it’s the same as it’s the same as anybody writing anything from possibly a perspective you don’t specifically have. Right. But I think we will have, as we all share a certain sensibility of what we want and need and desire and, and, you know, you know, like I remember Bradbury saying that, you know, you know, so no way comparing myself, but Bradbury said, well, you know, that whole Axiom about, you know, right.

What, you know, right. And

Speaker 1 (9m 14s): Absolutely

Speaker 2 (9m 16s): He, but he had never been to Mars, but you know, one of his celebrated works is the Martian Chronicles. And he just put the idea of loss and prejudice and, and, and desire and, and, and, you know, memory and, and all that kind of stuff in, into those characters and into those stories that happened at a place or more. So I guess what I’m saying is we all, although I’m not, not hetero woman led, I don’t play one on television,

Speaker 1 (9m 47s): Nor did, nor did you stay at a holiday Inn express last night,

Speaker 2 (9m 51s): Right. Exactly. I think that when it comes down, it was that you just, you kind of the things I don’t know, and I don’t even try to stretch and make believe. I do know. I wouldn’t even assume that, you know, but I think, I think there are shared experiences that we will have and just you, right. Kind of what, you know, what to that point. And then when you don’t know you either don’t right. Or you admit, you don’t know in, in, in kind of a, as, as entertaining a way as possible.

And those, those places that you mentioned seem to like this stuff. So I, I’m very, very, I haven’t written, as we’re speaking now, I haven’t written it. I’m writing the article from laundry addict. The other night I started with killing, killing kittens and the editor there is absolutely fantastic. I’m like, I can’t, I was talking to somebody the other day about having a great editor means it means the world. And she’s wonderful.

And I actually did ask her a question. Do you have a day about perspective? Cause I just want to make sure it was tweaking it correctly. And she claims it was due under five. So I guess I’m on the right track. But you know, if it ain’t broke, it ain’t woke it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it, you know, and don’t wake it up. So that’s kinda where I’m coming from. I think so along a long answer to your question, sorry.

Speaker 1 (11m 14s): We, as long as you want, we don’t have it. We don’t have a time limit here. Now, despite this, you still find, do you still find some female editors are those identifying as female, female? Can’t forget about that. Not wanting to publish stuff from male writers during the me too era,

Speaker 2 (11m 32s): You know, that it’s such a loaded idea in question. Right. Because even before that whole thing, I would like to think I just walked around and was respectful to everybody. You know? So that was, that was always my perspective. I didn’t think too much about, I just, just was always just th you know, just figured I one, I, people, the way I want to be treated, right. That was kind of like golden rule. I figured that that kind of works. So that said, I don’t know if people are more aware.

I, I have certainly felt a bit of that. I’ve certainly felt a bit of caution. I should say. I felt it in my everyday life. And I felt it in my professional life kind of, I don’t know if you feel it, but, and I know that people don’t like to talk about that because they think sometimes they think that’s, that’s a negative to talk about that. But it’s the reality of the situation.

Speaker 1 (12m 29s): Well, you know, the only, the only time on it, this industry, I felt it as when I, there was a women and adult meeting at one of their shows and I walked in and said, Hey, what’s going on here? And he basically told me to get the fuck out anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (12m 42s): Yeah, you don’t, you know, these things always take on a wide pendulum swing. Right, right. Whatever, there’s any kind of change or revolution, or there’s always a wide pendulum swing. And there’s always, and what happens with that, I usually is that if you, if you, if you just show up, if you have a question or you would like, would you just set or you walk into a situation and you just kind of, whatever happens to be, there’s always a little bit of a blow back, you know, Michael, my whole thing about any of this, I don’t care what it is is I think we should always be able to ask the question, whatever that question may be and not be, not be instantly labeled one thing or another, because we ask the question, right.

People beyond that, you know, I’m sure that there are, we were talking about circling the wagons before. I’m sure there are certain places that for whatever reason are circling the wagons and becoming more inclusive, why they think they are becoming more exclusive. You know, I think they’re becoming more inclusive because of, you know, some sort of bristling against, against something. So I just try to be with, with the approach. We were talking about this before with the, with the approach to just people in general, in business in general.

And I don’t care what business it is. I just try to be as open as possible and say, this is what I do. And this is who I am. And if you don’t like either of those things, that’s okay. We don’t have to work together. It doesn’t mean you’re right or wrong. It’s just, that’s, that’s fine. But I’ve been very, very lucky so far with our just fortunate. So far to everybody I’ve come across, doesn’t matter gender. What they, what it is. Everybody seems to be open and, you know, giving me, give me a chance as much as they give them a chance. That’s all you can ask for. Right.

Speaker 1 (14m 27s): And if, and if you knew the joker than I am, I, I walked into that meeting on purpose, knowing I was going to get thrown out of my hair. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (14m 36s): I’m like you, I, I lead with the, with the, with the, with the rye, you know,

Speaker 1 (14m 43s): It’s a serious, don’t be too serious. I mean, life is too serious already.

Speaker 2 (14m 47s): Yeah. And I’m taking the piss out of myself first before, take it out to anybody I’m first and foremost, you know, self deprecating. And I always, I always like to walk into a situation and cut it down to size quickly. So everybody could just take a breath, you know, but, and I think that’s the performer side of me, you know, like I get up on stage and I have to be able to deliver. So sometimes you have to put an audience and, but, but I, yeah, I, I agree with you. I wish everybody would just take a step back a little bit and take a breath and realize, walk, just try to get through this man.

Speaker 1 (15m 23s): Oh, I hate that. Hate that the truth, by the way, you’re a writer. You spend a lot of your life writing. How much of your life do you spend reading

Speaker 2 (15m 34s): Almost an equal amount. If not more. When, when Chris and I do the writing class, you were talking about the class that we teach, we teach a lot of writing classes at the conventions and which are, which are by far our favorite classes to teach. And yeah. And the best thing about that is usually what we do is we, we, we came to the conclusion of best thing to do was to have a little bit of an outline, but just start the classes with anybody, have a question. And then usually a, just closed some questions. But anyway, right, the, the number one thing I get asked all the time is how do, how do, how do I do this?

How do I write, you know, how do I start? How do I do this? And I always say, you know, I hate to say this, but this is the only way. The only thing I can tell you, I have two pieces of advice. One is, well, you got to start writing. That’s a liquid, do it. Right. And then the second piece of advice I would say is you should, you should be reading a hell of a lot. You know, you should be marinating in, in great writers and even bad writers and, and everything. You get your hands on comics and recipes and novels. I don’t care what it is. Right. So I, you just said, how much do I read?

Say, that’s kind of all I do. It’s what reading is really, really infected and in fused, and probably saved my life more than anything else. I know it’s really, really important. And I’ve been doing, I’ve been reading since my mom’s a big reader. So like she said, when I was a little kid, I was like sitting in the room with her and have a book propped up in front of me. I couldn’t read, but I was imitating her reading. And then I became a reader, but I’ve always been a very, quite a voracious,

Speaker 1 (17m 11s): You know, I was never much of a reader, but as, but starting a few years ago, I would say probably when Trump got into office, because there was so much political stuff I wanted to read and, and all of it was just so incredibly outrageous. I started download books onto my Kimball app on my iPad and having stopped. And now I read every night pretty much. And so, yeah, it’s, I love it. I absolutely love it, but it’s, it’s amazing that it took me to almost age 60 to really start and now reading all kinds of stuff, including the stuff that I enjoy the most, like, you know, books about sports and books about jazz, but, you know, I, which are the things or some of my passions, but I just read all kinds of stuff now.

And it’s just, it’s just really cool.

Speaker 2 (18m 3s): Yeah. Yeah. It opens your life to, to, in a way that I don’t know if any, I don’t know if any other art form can do that for you because you know, you, you know, visual, you know, the visual and movies are extremely important to me in music, of course, but sure. But there’s something about reading because you, you have to form what you’re reading. You have to form your own pictures of that. And I think that that stretch your imagination and vocabulary to a work place. That’s just, just knows don’t bounce.

You know,

Speaker 1 (18m 34s): It’s kinda like, it’s kind of like sports on radio versus sports on television. You know, I used to, I used to do, as I mentioned to you, I used to do a sports play by play when I was in my younger years. And didn’t really make it on any kind of a big level, but I enjoyed painting that picture for people because they couldn’t see the field. They couldn’t see what the players were doing, but I could, but I, what you have to do in that instance, as you have to paint a picture,

Speaker 2 (19m 6s): Well, it’s funny you say that because what you were just saying that it reminded me. I remember walking to the den and my dad watching, like, you know, we were talking about before, off the air, we’re talking about work. Cause we’re, I’m on the east coast of the United States, big, giant beach, giant fans, you know, Mets fans. And I remember my dad watching giant games on television with the, with the sound off and listening to the radio while watching the game, because he was getting much more information from the radio than he was from the announcements on television, on television.

You’re looking at it. And I, and I was, at the first times I saw that. I said, what do you do it? You know, he explained it to me. He said, you know, would you listen to the radio? They’re giving you a lot more of the information because they, they, they have to give you more information. That’s correct. He’s correct. The marriage of the two to see that working, you know, said that that makes a lot of sense because I saw that actually happened in my life, you know, right in front of me.

Speaker 1 (20m 3s): So we touched on this a bit the last time, but as opposed to how it seemed to be a few years ago when adult companies were still producing DVDs, we were seeing each other at shows and conventions were full of talent. And fans has, it seemed to you in the past few years that our business has gotten smaller.

Speaker 2 (20m 22s): Yeah. I was saying some ways, you know, as far as people are doing the one thing that, you know, used to be like, you would just say, like we were all over the place, you know, would go to a convention or we, you know, everybody was kind of bopping around and do a lot of stuff. It seems like people are focusing on the thing they do. It’s trying to do that well and do it and get it out there as much as possible. But it seems to be, you you’d get a guy that was w w had a magazine, but he’s also involved in the photography.

And he was also doing this nowadays. It seems to be like, okay, I, you know, although there are people, you, you actually, we have, we have shared mutual festivals on your show. And I know for a fact she does a lot of different things, but yes, but it seems to be that people are working tightly on their brand, wherever that, whatever that encompasses. And then they, so I don’t know if they’re, if they’re putting themselves out there that much, although I know the exotica conventions are happening in the United States and presently, so I know that convention is starting.

And I know I got some press on Tom con the other day, so I know those, those are happy. So people are out there again, but maybe they’re just, you know, but they’re going out there with a very singular vision, I think at this point of what?

Speaker 1 (21m 45s): Sure. Yeah. And in the, on the B2B side, which I’m more in tune with, you know, shows like T E S are starting up again. And yeah. If, if they, if it wasn’t for this, this fucking quarantine in Thailand, which I happen to be right in the middle of right now, as I mentioned to you coming back from America, I would be in Prague because I haven’t missed it in many years, but unfortunately this September, it’s not going to happen. Well, it didn’t happen last September, obviously either.

So I’m hoping in 2022, everything will be as back to normal as possible. But anyway, talk about a fucked up country. I live in my God. Anyway,

Speaker 2 (22m 28s): We spoke you, you were, things were okay there. Right.

Speaker 1 (22m 31s): We’re wonderful. The first year was amazing. And now they’re losing the government got lazy and they started giving into business interests. Oh yeah. And I’m sure plenty of cash has changed hands, which that probably includes the money that it’s costing for two fully quarantined people to be sitting in a 15 day quarantine. I’m sorry. Two full two fully vaccinated people to be sitting in a 15 day quarantine. Nice.

<inaudible> it’s all about money anyway. Don’t get me started. Okay. So it wasn’t until your podcast looking non vanilla, that you began to really deal with social media. So what have you found out from that experience? Good and bad?

Speaker 2 (23m 17s): Well, it reiterated the one thought in my mind, which was that it’s, it can be a holy time suck, you know, an incredible, incredible, you know, mind candy that you can just, you can just get, get thrown into and, you know, talk about talking about Alice down the rabbit hole, you know, you could just go for it. It’s, you know, it’s like when I start searching, you know, Emerson, Lincoln Palmer, YouTube videos, I’ll be on YouTube forever know. So It’s the same thing.

So I, you know, so I never dealt with it before. Well, so what happened was when we started looking at vanilla, my producer said, well, we got to get on some sort of social media. And I said, well, I’m not going to Facebook. I just can’t become part of that Cole. I have no desire for it. So, so he said, well, you know, we can get it to Twitter. I said, well, right. So we got into Twitter and, you know, I’ll, I’ll make a, I’ll, I’ll put up a blog or, or, you know, one of the, whatever the show was on that week. And, and, and then I started, you know, seeking contacts through there and I made some contacts through them, which was good.

So that’s the most I do really. I don’t get into like the, let me show you what I had for breakfast and put it up on Twitter, you know, like that stuff. But, but I, it is, it is amazing to me. There’s other places too, that you and I both actually know of and are on that. I, I see like people posting stuff that has nothing to do with the business or whatever.

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): Oh, come on. Let’s just say it. Are you talking about miss? Oh God, it’s my pet peeve. That’s my pet peeve over there. And I’ve, I’ve voiced it many times and it’s like, dude, if I want to, if I, if I want to get this information, I’ll get it from apple news.

Speaker 2 (25m 4s): Well, like, you know, the minutia and I got in trouble on there a couple of times, because I threw out some, what I thought were right. Silly comments. And I got in trouble and really, they were like, yeah, how can you say that here? And I’m like I said, well, first of all, I don’t even know what we’re talking about. Should we be talking about the business? Like,

Speaker 1 (25m 23s): That’s kind of what we’re talking about.

Speaker 2 (25m 26s): And, and I, and then, and then, so, so it got off on a tangent and I was like, dude, do any of us really have time or care to be doing this about this? You know, like, first of all, if you want to do that, going to go on Twitter or whatever you want to do, but I don’t even want to do that.

Speaker 1 (25m 40s): Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (25m 42s): So, so, so the answer to your question is the good and the bad, the bad is that it is what I thought it was. It’s just, you know, depository or a suppository. Abby, we don’t look at it for just silliness in, you know, people, people feeling you may be looking for affirmation. And then it’s also, it is a good way for me to quickly contact people if I want to, or people reaching out, but I’m not monitoring it every day and say, oh, I have, you know, 300 pop followers. You know, it’s just that, that’s just, that’s just, doesn’t equate in my life.

Is anything of value. Yeah. I don’t, and I don’t want to sound like a curmudgeon cause you know, I get to this age, you get the egg a little bit. <inaudible> go get you, get you, get your bikes off my lawn kind of thing. But now that I’ve come to the party late, I realized I haven’t been missing much of a party.

Speaker 1 (26m 33s): No, you really haven’t. And I agree. It’s kind of a generational thing. Although Facebook tends to be more our generation, but I did that, that game for a while and on a personal level. And I finally just canceled my account. I got blocked. I got blocked so many times for putting things that were totally innocent on there. Yeah. We’re, we’re, we’re Facebook gives you a timeout. And when they gave me a 60 day time out, I finally said, you know what?

I’m done. I’m just done.

Speaker 2 (27m 7s): And

Speaker 1 (27m 9s): I canceled, I just canceled it. I just canceled the account. And I got to say, I don’t miss it. The people that, that, that care about me and, and I care about will find me on my, on my business page. I would do have a business Facebook page. I use it to promo the podcast and some listings and things like that. And Twitter and LinkedIn. But I don’t know. I don’t go overboard either. I just can’t see it. And you know, it used to be such a time suck, man. I used to, every time when I picked up my phone, I went to Facebook to see what people were saying or saying about me or saying about Trump.

And then it gets to the point where you’re like, oh fuck man, this is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (27m 49s): Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s akin to, I say this to my buddy all the time. There was a, there was a point I was trying to catch the Marvel movies. Cause I, I’m not a comic geek, but I liked comics and it was falling the movies. And I was like, oh, this is cool. And then it got to a point like there was, you know, seven or 800 of them out there or whatever. And they were in order and you have yet to see the way the winter soldier before you saw this, you know, all this bullshit. And I said to my buddy, like in an end game, came out, everybody was raving about it. And I said, you know what? I don’t, I don’t, I don’t care. I just don’t care anymore. Like, it’s just too much of like me trying to like, worry about what order I saw the movies in.

And like, I don’t remember. I’m like, I just, it’s just not, I’m just not interested. I want to live my life. You know, I want to like, I mean, I just want to, and, and I love all that stuff. I love, I love all that popcorn movies. And I dig, you know, I like watching Gail, Gail gal got do anything, but it got to a point where she was like, whoa, why am I chasing all this?

Speaker 1 (28m 50s): Yeah. When it starts to dominate your life, that’s when you realize that it’s too much. And I think probably one of the best things that apple put on their phones is screen time. And it’s, it’s a, you get a notice every Sunday, which how much time you spent on your phone that week. And I’ll tell you what people

Speaker 2 (29m 12s): Are paying attention.

Speaker 1 (29m 13s): I do. And I’ll tell you it’s pretty eyeopening. I mean, it’s bad enough that mine was three hours plus. Okay. I’ll admit it. But at the same time, I bet it used to be more like eight or six or whatever it with Facebook was

Speaker 2 (29m 27s): That you, you cheated back a bit.

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): Oh God, like 50%. Trust me. Although now I’m putting a lot of that time into, into sports now, which, which I love, you know, and to seeing like, right, like as we, as we do this interview and it’s going to run and it’s going to run in a couple months, but as we do this interview and we’re on the baseball trade deadline, we’ll being a big San Francisco giants fan. We gotta, we gotta get which giants correct here. Yeah. I’m like, man, I want to see who, who gets traded and who we get and who we give up. So anyway, that’s but that’s, so devices are good for that.

Speaker 2 (30m 2s): So apple did that with the thing, is that, so you use apple less. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 8s): Pretty much. It’s called screen time. Absolutely. Well, yeah, That is a very confident company, you know, and they should be confident. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (30m 19s): I think about that model, there’s a tool to regulate how much you’re using their product.

Speaker 1 (30m 29s): It was for personal it’s for it’s for personal wellbeing. And I think it’s wonderful. I really do. I really do

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): Wild isn’t it? So they’re looking to make money

Speaker 1 (30m 41s): And they do. Yep. So as we do, you’re obviously not an apple user. So as we discussed last, as we discussed, last time you got into the business by writing scripts for the 800 and 900 phone sex lines back in the day. Wow. Yeah. So surely things have progressed in script writing over the years, just a little bit, but do you find opportunities to write scripts much anymore?

And if not, why do you think that might be?

Speaker 2 (31m 13s): I don’t. And I think the reason is that most what we were saying before about how the business has changed a bit people where people are playing it close to the vest. So I think if you have a performer, a soul, you know, I’m a lady performer, who’s doing her own content and there’s some great women out there doing some great content, you know, had their own little studios and putting the clips up for sale and fans and friends with a few, but fans of more. And I would say a lot of them are doing it themselves.

They’re putting a script, they’re putting a crew together, a small crew and they’re putting the scripts together themselves. They know how to do it and that’s what’s happening. So I don’t, I don’t think people are occasionally I’ll get, I’ll get some sort of a, the guidelines or somebody looking for a script and I’ll write them. And then I don’t get a hit back. And it’s not pretty much just be me as well, but I tend to think that people start that and then they realize, you know what? I don’t need to get a writer in here. I can just do this. Sure.

Speaker 1 (32m 13s): Well, yeah, the clip, the clip and fan sites are certainly dominating the industry now without a doubt.

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): Yeah. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t know. What’s the last time you’ve seen a movie that’s really been more than 23 minutes. If that, you know, I think that’s what, that’s the biggest, the longest things I’ve seen now, you know, if it’s,

Speaker 1 (32m 32s): There’s some producers that still put a story into their stuff, and those are the people that if you want script work, those are the people you should be working.

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): Right. That are the people I seek out. But again, you know, those people, you know, everybody, everybody, if you get to that point at this point, you probably have a good crew around you. And you’re the go-to people. I’m always, Hey, look, I’m looking. So if anybody wants to contact me, I’m always looking where you go.

Speaker 1 (32m 60s): Well, okay. So what does the scene look like at the kink convection conventions you teach yet? Now they’re starting up again. Obviously we talked about that. Are they populated? And do you think they’re going to stand the test of time?

Speaker 2 (33m 15s): Well, I can only, I just didn’t do it. I just did a piece for kinky magazine. K I N anyway, a shout out and what, and I had to interview some people about that very subject. And it seems like there is a return there’s, there’s a group I know in St. Louis that, that I know pretty well. And I, I, Chris and I have taught there quite a bit and they, they seem to be going full, full steam ahead with at least two events a year back to their, to two event a year schedule.

So, and like I said, exotic is open again, exotic that does not have any kind of COVID restriction that I know of. I know the other, the convention, the king convention, you have to be, you have to be vaccinated. So because, you know, in those instances, of course, people are getting very close together. You know, they’re going to, you know, reach out and beat someone basically. And so, So they, those guys are starting up again.

I haven’t seen much call for there’s a couple of other conventions I know of Don, like we were just saying is happening. Right. So the other ones, I don’t know, but, but it seems the ones that are, have done enough research and have enough together that they know how they want to move forward, you know, and they are moving forward. Okay,

Speaker 1 (34m 45s): Good. That’s good. Now in doing adult writing, have you ever had those moments when you feel, you, you know, just want to write about vanilla sex or just maybe get out of the business altogether?

Speaker 2 (34m 59s): I don’t know if you know, there’s not a get out. There was never a moment where it was get out, but they’re here. There are those moments where I’m like, I have to step back from this for a week because my, my perspective is getting colored all by, you know, robots, spanking stories. And after a while, it’s just, you know, so that’s why I have multiple projects open at once. And I say open, I mean, on my desktop that I go to. So I’m constantly flipping back and forth.

So I’m running an article about chassis, which I’m doing right now, writing chassis, but I’m also doing work for a, a local company that does the air duct cleaning in your house. So I’m going back and forth, you know? And so I’m constantly keeping that fire going so that those fires going. So I don’t have to, I don’t get bored by either one, but there are times the only thing I seem to have to take a break from is certainly the erotica writing. Cause that that’s, that really is, is very intense. As far as, you know, the things you’re talking about, things you’re writing about and conjuring you, you, I have to take a step back from that on many occasions, you know, just to give myself a little bit of a break,

Speaker 1 (36m 10s): That’s all understood. Now, now, now the last time we spoke, we also touched on your music career. When we talked before the site was fairly new, maybe you can tell us more and give us a little bit of an update.

Speaker 2 (36m 24s): Ah, nothing to update at the moment. What I’m trying to do now is because I can’t physically go to the studio, right. So I’m gonna do as much as I can. I’m working on. And it’s pretty easy because easy is a relative term, but I have a, I have a, because that way technology is such that you, you know, digital recorders, you can hold in your hand, you know? So I

Speaker 1 (36m 51s): Guess it’s called a mobile phone.

Speaker 2 (36m 53s): Yeah, well, there’s, there’s, there’s a zoom recorder. That’s a professional recorder that I can get great guitar and vocal sales. And then I will throw that out to my engineer, producer co-producer and engineer, and you know, via email. Right. And there are, luckily the projects that I’m working, he has a couple of projects, a couple of songs for me that he’s working on now, but, and they, they’re more, they have a lot more instrumentation, but the things that I want to work on immediately are four projects in there.

They’re all just acoustic guitar. And those are just a guitar. So that’s four different products. So it’s not a lot, there’s not a lot of production involved. So I can do, I guess what I’m saying is I can do most of that recording myself. I just have, I just have to do it.

Speaker 1 (37m 45s): How many, how many hours in the day, right. So what are your future plans for your podcast? Looking non vanilla.

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): We’re just trying to increase the reach and a listenership and get on, you know, bigger and better. And that that’s a relative term as you well know. Yes. You know, we’ve had some, we’ve had some great we’ve of course the board, if it’s a great people, but just because someone has a big following doesn’t mean they’re going to be a great guest as you well know. Right. And just because someone has a great following doesn’t mean that their followers are gonna follow you.

So it’s really crafting, you know, I don’t know how you find it, but for me, for Chris and I, it’s certainly a crapshoot on feeling out. You want to have all our publicist touch you and you, you bandy about the, the guests are not, you know, so you know how it is very, very hard to do.

Speaker 1 (38m 47s): I do. I’m recruiting, I’m recruiting guests, every damn I’m putting feelers out every day. I see a news story and I go, God, that person would be a great gas.

Speaker 2 (38m 55s): Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes they don’t, they don’t end up being a great guest for it’s all good. And I put the blame on myself. I’m like, why didn’t I ask him the right questions and have the, I didn’t have the right up to the right thing up to speed or whatever it is. But there are times when I’m like, well, they’re just, they’re just not great communicators and that that’s not, everybody is not everybody’s

Speaker 1 (39m 15s): And everybody can talk. Not everybody can talk. Well, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (39m 20s): It’s scintillating as you and I, you know,

Speaker 1 (39m 24s): Hey, we’re talkers buddy. We’re talkers. And they tell an Italian and a Jew who would figure, okay. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (39m 33s): Yeah. What’d they say, what’s it the joke about that same corporation. Different division. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (39m 43s): So, and there’s, and there’s, I’m sure in New York, there’s a finer line from my experience anyway. So what writing projects are you currently working on and what do you see coming in the near future?

Speaker 2 (39m 58s): Okay. Well, I have a memoir that I hopefully get done and published. I have a publisher name. Cool. Yeah, but that would have to be anonymous because it’s a little, there’s a little dirty and it’s a little, you know, I can’t

Speaker 1 (40m 11s): Wait. Do I get a copy?

Speaker 2 (40m 14s): Sure. That’s why they don’t want to just send them out the, the music projects. And then I have a view, a book about music that I’ve been working on for a long time. And then, you know, all the other, you know, there’s a couple of things in the wings, but that’s the problem that I have, you know, whatever it is, BLT or EDT or ELP or EDD L ADB, I don’t have that, but I feel like I do cause I bounce around for so many things so much.

Speaker 1 (40m 47s): Yeah. You definitely have BLT for lunch, right.

Speaker 2 (40m 50s): PTO or ELP ELL, but that, that site bounce around so much. So that’s the whole thing. So that’s what I’m hoping to get to within the next couple, you know, just keep going until the next, till the next couple of months here, you know, and then whatever else comes in, any projects come in, you know, I’m certainly open to everything, you know, basically.

Speaker 1 (41m 9s): Absolutely. Well, Hey Ralph, once again, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broker talk and I hope we’ll be able to do round three in the not too distant future. My broker tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit. If you’re going to be making payments, this has done about half the time.

These days, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow. Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. They’re a firm out of Washington DC. And know they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them, trust them. And I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a custom escrow, or if it’s a simple one that can be set up on their website, then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed.

It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal, closing your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this. And it’s on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as they’re all the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition, or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.

This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point you’re pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about that more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to professor and author Edward Shorter. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Ralph Grecco. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Claude Lai of X10.

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The surfers on the site will be hard pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including the evil angel adult time browsers, bang bros, and just about every other top adult networking site. They’ve been growing their email list since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000. In the past six months, their unsubscribe rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well.

This is boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding discount and review platform for only $950,000. Next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, coral and Juul we’ll interview intimacy, coach and author, sir, Ezra, you can find the hanky panky podcast@hankypankypodcast.com and wherever fine podcasts can be heard.

Now time for this week’s interview my guest today, an adults say it. Broker talk is Claude of ex tan Claude. Thanks for being with us today on adult. Say broker talk. Hey, how

Speaker 2 (3m 30s): Are you? I’m

Speaker 1 (3m 31s): Good. How about you?

Speaker 2 (3m 33s): I’m pretty good. Pretty good. Trying to stay cold. It’s in the middle of the summer here, it’s gotta be over a hundred degrees. So the last month or so every day it feels like anyway, so yeah, it’s just trying to stay cool. Well, indoors,

Speaker 1 (3m 45s): It will be cooler by the time we run this, cause it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be towards the end of September or so. So hopefully it’ll cool down. Hopefully it’ll cool down by that. Now let’s tell everyone about you. Claude has spent over 20 years in north America, building websites for both the adult and the mainstream industries. You started working with some of the pioneers of the adult web back in the early two thousands building custom CMS platforms where some of the first adult websites ever launched. He developed new ways to automate photo and video content and caching systems, as well as introducing the first recorded in live video streaming platforms, clod has developed and deployed thousands of adult content, membership sites, video on demand, live cam, and many other types of adult and mainstream websites.

Now, Claude has also worked in the mainstream and the adult space with virtual reality implementation smart TV and mobile app development, clods hunger to find new solutions and innovate. New ideas has always driven his passion for new technologies. He’s run a very successful business for more than 20 years and is instrumental has been instrumental for thousands of clients to reach their goals of launching and deploying their adult or mainstream sites with a focus on scalability, monetization and usability.

The company is based in LA and Amsterdam. Now X 10 revenue@xtenrevenue.com is almost a year old. It’s a cumulation of 20 plus years of adult experience and combined a hundred plus years with their team of programmers, designers and marketers X 10 revenue licenses exclusively the X 10 platform X 10 platform.com a 301 content management live cam and fan platform. It’s an enterprise level platform with over 18 years and real world deployment and use extend is a multi-site solution running from one admin to deploy thousands of membership cam video on demand and hybrid adult business models, all from one content pool, XN revenue also offers SEO marketing services and automation services to re promote any adult site, no matter what technology they’re using to manage their websites.

And I recently I’ve had some demos on the platform for a consulting client, and I’ve got to say it is quite impressive now, clot, besides what I just mentioned, what is X 10, 11?

Speaker 2 (6m 20s): So X 10 revenue is a combination of, as you, as you were saying, 20 years of experience in the adult business that I’ve had. And basically coming from a point of, of, of trying to solve for the unsolvable. This is where I’ve always made my, you know, made my niche. What’s something that’s always driven my passion. And what I like to do is to figure out what someone else hasn’t figured out yet. So as you’d said, I came from a, a background of the innovators of the web, which were video and, and figuring out how to get video live streaming and things of that nature for the first time to the end-user.

And always trying to figure out how to make these things redundant, how to make things to be, you know, to work across all different platforms and how to make it also the most important of everything was how to, how to keep retention and how to convert. And those are really always been the same things. And so when we talk about the web today and, you know, and things like Tik TOK and all these newer platforms to us newer, because of course I’ve been around so long, it for, for me, I just, I, what I see is just another interface, a better interface than the last interface for a better way to say the same thing over and over again.

And ultimately just another way for people to monetize whatever they’re talking about and whatever content that they’re creating in order to, to make it the, the, the most efficient way to get a, to be basically what I create to the, from the creator to the, to the publisher. And everyone becomes really their own creator and their own publisher. So the X 10 platform, as you had said in a, in a very, you know, long and detailed way, which I appreciate very much, you and I have known a shelter for many, many years, many, many years.

And the, the culmination of it was that again, solving the unsolvable. So, so why go and, and run WordPress or run a CMS or run a live cam platform or run multiple membership sites or custom make membership sites. So coming from a background that I have of custom making and spending half a million to over a million in some of these sites, still running the same platforms today, that I was initially a part of to create something that is modular, easy to use turn key, and that requires no programming and is, and you’re able to just basically decide on what business model you want to run for, what kind of site then you have.

So one, one being the, the fans platform, which is basically a kind of an only fans clone, but also again, being the kind of person I am and the, and the, the team I work with making it to the next level. So what is, what is it doing? But then let’s, let’s take it to the next level. What is, what are the things that, what is it, what is it doing and what can we do to the next to the next level in both in the usability point of view, but also in the monetization options. So not just have a membership for models, but also have things like, you know, paid messaging or group messaging or interactivity and usability, and giving the user the F the sense that they’re buying into a single profile, even though it may, may be run by a agency, or it may be run by an individual model, or in any case it’s about the interactivity and having constant feedback from the model to the, to the user and back and forth.

The CMS of course, is a membership CMS, which is similar to very, you know, very traditional adult CMS, basically content is protected or not protected. So you have trailer content and you have protected content, both photo and video, digital downloads. Those kinds of things are things that are very much either selling clips or selling photo sets, zip files, or selling content that is protected or not protected. And then the other one is, is, is adding into that, of course, the video on demand concept, which is pay per view and pay per minute and, and limiting time on content, where it expires after a certain amount of time.

And then, and then the, and then you’ve got the cam system, which just adds on to that all of the other modules that I’ve said, but also allows you to go live and do pay per minute and tips and, and use a live cam system that we that’s almost like nine, nine years old now, but we’ve added it into and combine them all. And re re what we did in the last year is we redid the entire backend and front end of our platform to make it scalable, to make it more secure and more user-friendly. So working with my team, that I’ve proudly been able to kind of reinvent the, the way that the whole front end looks to the user side.

So the entire user side has been redone. And then the model side, which was really the most important to everything, which was how the model is upload content, how easy is it for them to upload on a mobile or a tablet device, or a computer or a computer with different screen resolutions or, and, and do things make sense the way they are. And is it intuitive? Is it, is it easier to use or was it, does it require someone to go in and, and, and, and manage that? One of the, one of the things that one of the things that have changed for us that I’ve noticed a big shift in the last few years has been the, the shift from old school at the administrator owns content.

They purchase content, they make content, they create content. And that, that, that administrator learns buys our, our system licenses our system and spends, you know, days, months, years building their website, their brand. And we train them on our system. And even though our admin is very ha has over 146 items in it, we try to make it as simple as we can, but I’m a very big techie. So I put everything in the, in the, in the, you know, kind of in the kitchen sink when it comes to, you know, what, what I want to give feature wise.

And sometimes that kind of comes back because then it ends up being so complicated or at least seeming so complicated because there are so many choices and our manual is over 600 pages and counting. So the shift, as I’ve said, has been almost all our clients. Now, the admin is really just used as a way to, to check revenue, to pay models. But the, all the, all the, the, the magic, all the content management side of things is all done on the front side, by the, the, the dashboard that the model has.

Right. And that’s really what’s changed. And that’s why we shifted all of our effort into how do we make the model dashboard be really the primary focus, because that drives the model, the model drives the revenue. They re they drive the traffic and the traffic drives the income. It’s, it’s, that’s the real shift of what’s what’s happening in the, in the PA in, in, in these days.

Speaker 1 (13m 21s): So how has your company different from others that do what you do?

Speaker 2 (13m 26s): Again, we, our team has been, has been over in the 20 years of making. So we have a hundred, really a hundred years combined expertise. And what we, what we do is we take our marketing arm when we take our technology arm and we take our, you know, SEO experiences. And really it’s, it’s it’s, as I said, it’s the combination of all of this, this knowledge being brought into, into what our clients have requested. So for example, we just added an automation module and the automation module that no one else has, and it’s been very taken it’s, it’s gone very well and received well, is that the ability to, to automate the, the publishing of content from our platform, in any of the different business models or hybrid business models, be able to upload them and then be able to publish it out in Cigna, suffocate it all the way out to say PornHub or clips for sale, or, you know, any in any social media and almost in instantaneous, or in most cases, almost instantaneous saving thousands and thousands of dollars on all of the, you know, on the time that it takes to actually do that stuff manually.

And it’s, it’s more than that because it’s, again, thinking of it the way that, how do I make money? How can I, as a, as an, as a, as an owner of this license system, who has a domain, a logo has content make money by publishing out into the world without having to create, you know, this is really the crux of what you’re asking is why, how was it different? How are we different? It is that we, first of all, have we really catered to a tour, different, higher level kinds.

This is why you said enterprise level multi. When you talk about multisite and you’re talking about multi-language and multi-currency and custom theme design, you’re talking about a scalable system. We have one client has 115,000 active users, and over 56,000 active models that go in and upload every day, this is, this is a scalability level that we, that we deal with and has 20 different sites and uses does. And that’s, I mean, basically everything, everything that you could ever think of, they are, they are doing. And then, and I guess that’s kind of what you have to do these days, you know, in order to compete, you have to be trying to do everything that you can to pick up money in every way you can.

Right. I think that’s the difference. And so the marketing arm is the search engine optimization that we can do again, another team that we have, some of these guys, some of the guys that are, that work with us on, on, on that side of things have worked with some of the very top, the review sites for adult, you know, porn review sites and those kinds of, so obviously they, they understand, and even some of the tube sites. So they really understand how to get SEO on top of the, you know, the top ranking. And they w they know that our system and they, and then we’ve created modules within our system to make it very easy for them to go in and make those changes, to make those, to optimize in those ways.

And then the head of marketing arm is really the, what, what, what has come to bear? I don’t you and I didn’t even have this conversation. It’s actually come, come to us. APAC is sending something to everybody. Now that says that you cannot just upload content and let the models run everything. You have to approve their content every single time. And so this is something that MasterCard just came up with. Yep. I can, I’ll send you the link after. It’s just something that’s. So now we’ve had to, again, adapt with this, and you can, you know, you can say, well, I can go to Bitcoin, or I can go to something else, but ultimately, you know, it, at least, you know, today it’s still visa, MasterCard rules, everything.

So knowing that we have to basically make adjustments in our system, which we’ve already done in most cases to, to, to turn that on so that it can get compliant. So basically there is no, there is no, it does. It does. It, it does create more work for some someone else. And that’s why we have a whole team of people that does that do that kind of, we call it marketing too, but it’s really more and more marketing and publishing, you know, help. And that is something that we can also offer as well, where you, if you’re, you know, if you’re stuck, every solution has a problem, Bruce.

That’s, that’s, that’s how we look at it. Yeah. I, I’ve always, I’ve always enjoyed as, as you mentioned, in, in my buyer, when you, you know, innovation is, is the key. So we know everything is always moving along and a problem creates a solution. So the MasterCard says we have to do this, and now we have to make those changes. So those, those are the things that are coming down the pike. I don’t know if every billing company is going to do that, but I know that I’ve been trying to get some, some real merchant accounts for some users as well. They don’t like the word fans.

They don’t like to have the idea that they really, the idea is yeah, the, I did the, the, the, the, the idea is that how, I’m sorry, what did you say? No, I’ve heard

Speaker 1 (18m 19s): Of the, that they don’t like the word you’ve heard

Speaker 2 (18m 20s): That they don’t like fans. Right. Which is really crazy. Right. Cause it’s just a word there’s a lot

Speaker 1 (18m 25s): Of crazy in the world.

Speaker 2 (18m 28s): Yeah. There is. So that, that, that, so that’s just new recently. I mean, I’ve, I’ve literally gotten an account activated pretty months ago with the word fans in it. No problem. And today it’s a problem. And so, and this is the thing that, you know, you’ve got fan type sites who are moving away from adult because of the fact that they’ve getting constantly bombarded by, you know, the, the, the regulators who say you can’t do this and you can’t do that then. And so, and, and, and, and it all comes down to the income.

It all comes down into who, who is taking that money. That’s what it is. And when you’re talking about credit cards, you’re talking about chargeback risks and compliance and things that are always, that we’ve known for many, many years that we try to mitigate. And so that’s where, that’s where all of that kind of comes from.

Speaker 1 (19m 17s): What’s the difference between a CMS and a live cam and fan platform.

Speaker 2 (19m 23s): So, as you said, the X 10 platform is an all in one. So it has all of those, right? So SCMS is, is traditionally just in our system. The way it works is we, we configure different logic on each type of theme. So there’s a theme that we deemed to be a CMS type theme. And that CMS type theme is only allows content to be either turned on or off. So basically you have trailer sections and you have, it’s a very traditional looking, you know, there’s a, there’s a home page and a model page, and a updates page and a photo and video page.

And when you click on any individual content, you’ll see, you know, a detail of that listing and I’ll have a title and a description and a screenshot. And basically that is what you’re talking about. A trip, what a traditional CMS does an adult in the adult space. There’s add to favorites, there’s add content. There’s, there’s all the things that, that traditionally most CMS is do. But the, but the crux of it is, and unless it’s a CMS VOT hybrid, which it could be, but in most cases, as I said, it’s, there is premium content that you pay for.

And then there’s a free stuff you can look at in most, in some cases you can in the photo section, for example, and this, our system does all of this. Of course, if you want to only allocate say two or three images to be for free, and then have the rest to be prepaid, you can do all of that. If you want to add watermarks. So you can do that. You can also offer them as digital downloads for a price so that, you know, like a zip file that they can download or not. You can make a photo gallery that basically expires after a certain amount of time.

And of course the video could be ingested either paying by the minute or by the clip or by time. So let’s say I want to expire the clip in a certain amount of time. That’s really the CMS. The cams is, is all of that, but the focus then becomes who’s live at the time. So when the, instead of going to the homepage of a CMS, that you would see all of the photo, video content updated, and what’s, you know, what is the latest content? What’s the top viewed content, that kind of thing in the live cam platform, really the focus becomes who’s life at the moment and, and who is right.

And, and that’s the real focus and all the profile images are of the top models. And when you click on the top model, again, it has CMS functions in it, which are the paying for content downloading a digital digital download file, or maybe even paying for a membership. But that gets into the membership of the entire site, not for the fans, which is, this is the difference of the fan. So the cams might have a, a membership component where you can get access to certain amount of content or discounted content.

So you might get a 50% off of all content photo, video content within the system. If you pay X a month monthly, or maybe instead of being 2 99 a month, you can do 1 99. If you’re a member, we have that, we’ve done that for many years. We have, we have basically a tiered pricing on almost every kind of pricing so that you can go in and choose. And this is like I said, where it gets really, really, really, really complicated to do want to know what, what are you going to offer your users and not to have 14 different options on your homepage?

But sure. The difference again, versus is that we work directly with the clients, right? We don’t just, we, we, we, we try to find out from them and spend time with them and say, what is exactly is it that you want to do? What have you already doing? And in some cases, one of the things that we do, we have had a lot of good success with is also porting over clients. So clients, our whole thing is are you stuck in the mud? Are you stuck in the, are you stuck in the, the, the old way of doing things? Can, can you actually, you know, go into using our free in one system to take you to the next level where you’re no longer stuck in just a one dimensional CMS of open and closed, where you can actually offer what I’m going to offer.

All these that are options, right? The fan system just adds that component. But instead of, instead of being all the live models on the homepage, the models that are really the top rated models and live is not really there could be a live component to it, but it’s really in the background. It’s not the number one mechanism for making money. The one number one mechanism in a fan’s platform is going to be the, the model membership really that’s the crux of it. So it’s, and it’s, it’s more interactive.

So alive cam is interactive. In the sense, if the model is live, you can talk to them in the CMS. You might be able to review or comment on something, but the fan system, the idea of that is that you are joining that model. And that model is going to be a available to you to talk to you. For example, we have a, we’ve just added a question or a functionality. So you can, you can go in and, and a model can actually make something like, would you like to see me where this tonight?

And yes, no, maybe, or, you know, choose your favorite color for me to wear or something like that. And that is something that every user can contribute to and feel like they’re a part of, they can also request custom content. So the custom content can come from a direct user that says, I want to see this video. I want to see you in this video and I’m willing to pay this much. And the, and there, it’s almost like an escrow system where it goes back and forth where the user makes a request. The model says, guests I’ll charge this much. The user pays that much, that money is held until the model uploads the content.

And then it is released once the content is accepted. So that is our custom content, I guess, I guess an escrow system, we’ve also added physical products to all of the, all the versions of the CMS or the themes that we have. But like I said, it’s, it’s really just, you know, the fo what is the focus on each type of CMS and or business model I should say. And what is, what is the way that, you know, is the best way to, to make the most money? Obviously the fans platform that we do push more than any other free at the moment.

It’s funny how these things kind of go always in, in cycles. So we had, you know, CMS be so, so important, and then everyone went to cams and now everyone’s going to fans and then maybe we’ll go back to CMS. I don’t know, but it just, it always seems like to be in cycles right now, the fans is really, I think it’s, it is what it is. It’s the encompassing a, a, a white mainstream feeling, you know, very light on, on, on, on, in, on design.

And, but it’s, it’s, it’s ultimately the, the, the, the feeling of being not on an adult site, it’s like, it may be, it, it triggers people on certain ways where they don’t feel like they’re joining an adult side. I’m not joining, you know, just, and it’s also the feeling of not being part of a mega site. So I’m not going to be joining some big corporation that, that, that has all these models. No, I’m just gonna, I’m just, I’m just joining this one model and I’m communicating, which is one model on an individual basis. And that’s really the, the key, I think, is that, is that sense of, because, you know, when you go to Twitter, for example, and I, and I, and there is a huge, huge following for us.

Anyway, this is part of the things that we, we always analyze. And we know that Twitter followers convert really well into fan followers, right? So people that look at stuff for free on Twitter con you know, typically will convert pretty, pretty well into the protected content. So if you on Twitter and you have stuff that’s out there, that’s, you know, teaser and not really the full length image of a photo content or video content. And basically say here, see more of me on this. Here’s my fans profile.

It, it converts really well because you’re already interacting with that end person that gives already a, person’s already tweeting with you. Oh, I really love that set of yours. I really love to see more, oh, you know, come see me here, you know? And so it’s, it’s kind of like that, like what I call the funnel, the funnel between, you know, going into a social media account, like Twitter, not like Tik TOK, like YouTube, even where you’re really doing things in a very soft way, but you’re bringing people in. And we’ve seen that, that compared to say a model profile on a camp, a version, or a CMS that might have the models profile page, the fans converts so much more because sure, the way we do it is, is, and as you, as I’ve demo demo to you, the last version of how we do things and me being someone that’s very much into usability is that we, I, we really, I really get into full length, you know, video for the top of the profile page, you know, full width on the screen, you know, thinking about what, what are the most important icons to see first?

What is the, what is the membership options that you can see first? And also for us, it’s we have a blurred out version of all the content. So it’s, it’s important for us to also at least I I’ve, I’ve seen it convert really well, where if it’s not in a Mo a lot of fans, you know, very traditional fan sites today, they don’t show anything in the profile page. And, and I know some of that’s because of, of, of SEO ranking and things of that nature, which we will also, we, we talk, we talked to our clients about that and they can always create sub sites without platforms.

So I, you know, the idea of the, of the free in one CMS is that you can create, there’s no limit to how many domains you point to the platform. And the idea is that when you pointed to one, one, each domain goes to that one platform, the admin basically can manage just by a click, which domain goes to which content goes to which domain, right? So you could have a unique in all your business models to go in different ways. So some models could be only on the fans or owning the Cannes and only on the CMS. And so this is really the, the, the architecture behind it.


Speaker 1 (29m 28s): Well, let’s get down to the bottom line here. How can X 10 make me more money if I have a site?

Speaker 2 (29m 36s): Right. Okay. So on two folds. So one is the, on the, on the side of the technology side and the other one is on the marketing side. So on the technology side, the idea that the idea that we’ve always said is it’s three new up from being able to just say, here is a, a traditional CMS. So typically there are two types of clients that will come to us. There’ll be the clients as established client, and they have ten five, one site, whatever they have a multitude of sites, maybe they’re running a, some kind of affiliate program in there.

You’re going to be two ways. They go, they’re either going to be high of licensed to CMS already, or they made their own. And in most cases they’re just stuck. And what we do to make, make more money for them is to offer them a full turnkey package of just not just marketing, but also support. How can we, we want to grow with your business. And in some cases, we actually do part partnership deals where it’s not just a strictly a licensing deal where we grow with you grow our, our, our retainer goes higher as yours does here is how much we can get you in an entry-level on a platform, which includes the, in the instance of someone who already has a site, what is it going to cost for a migration?

How do we go in, how do we move everything over to you to, to our system? What’s that gonna cost? How can we, how can we come in at a lower cost than that? As part, as part of our partnership, seeing that you’ve already got revenue, but also freeing you up from the limits that you might have right now, because of whatever technical infrastructure you have. And those limits may, may just be because you’ve already had a CMS that you built, that that’s really just antiquated and stuck, or it could be something that’s really kind of a one trick pony, as opposed to our platform that isn’t cause we have an affiliate module.

We have a newsletter module. We have, I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s nothing under the sun that we haven’t already put into our system. That very, very little that I’ve ever seen. Someone come to me and say, well, it’s only, we only put don’t want, won’t put it in. If it doesn’t make sense to us. But in most cases we have everything we’ve, we’ve disabled most of the items because most people don’t even use them. So that, that is, that is how we are different. And the support that we provide is text is phone. We are a us company. We aren’t out there.

You know, all our, all our team is here, that that can help you. And, and we, we being a us and, and, and having a European add, you know, as well as, as here, having that ability to be, to be present and to be, to be, to provide good support. I mean, that’s, that’s really the difference. And it’s, it’s text, it’s Skype, it’s and our conversations with our partner, clients in many ways are two way. And they’re about growing their business. How will you as your business grow?

And, and now, and again, that encompasses the, the a hundred years combined of our team to say, yes, don’t, don’t do this. Don’t do that. This is what’s working the best. This is what’s working the least, this is what you should be doing today. This is not rather than in many ways, being a, here is a system. Here’s how much you’re going to pay monthly. And here’s here is, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, how much money you could probably make, because everybody else can kind of make that money. It’s more about what is the bigger scope of how you want to, you know, grow your business really.

And I think that’s ultimately what it is. And it’s also about being stable. So we offer, we offer options as auto CMS is do as well. Where, where, you know, you can host it on your own server. We don’t want to own, you know, your, your, your, you know, your world. If you want to manage it yourself, that’s fine. We have API APIs, you have templates. We have, we provide almost everything you need in order to customize it yourself. So you don’t, you don’t clients don’t have to feel like they’re, they’re locked into us. I think, I think that’s, that’s what it is. It’s, it’s that feeling of being locked into something, which I, I hate.

So I kind of built my own system for myself, the way I would want to do it and my own company, the way that I want to do it, which is don’t lock yourself into anything and be innovative. We’ll know

Speaker 1 (33m 52s): Why. So why would, why would someone hosts their

Speaker 2 (33m 55s): Own platform? So, in, in some cases they might scale above what we, what we can handle, right? So that’s a custom client that might have 15 or 20 sites. They might be doing X amount that it’s better for them to manage it themselves. The better deals. If they’ve got relationships with the hosting companies, and they got higher scalability than we need to be, because we don’t need to be in the middle of that, right. Ours is kind of like a, you know, a, a barrier to entry. So, so, so what we’ve done is take away every barrier to entry.

We have, we have hosting connections, we have billing connections. We have, you know, design connections. We have things that well, you don’t have to worry about, you know, that we, those barriers get broken down so that you can, but on the flip side, there are people that come to us and say, oh, I want to buy the system out. And how much is that? And I don’t want to host it myself fine. And I want to do my own billing company finds all every component has to, and then a bruise tip.

Typically those kinds of people are the people who have migrated from a social media or a, what I call a tertiary platform. So using like a fans platform or a, you know, a, a vid, a video platform or something like that, or eclipse platform where they’re coming in from something else that they don’t manage or control. And in some cases there may be, there’ve been okay, but they had friends that have lost their accounts or had their accounts banned or terminated or suspended.

And so all of that comes from that fear. It comes from that sense of, I need to now manage and control my own domain, which is exactly, exactly what it is. If you’re a brand, if you’re a brand that sends, and these clients typically are the ones that have, like I said, either bigger sites or they are established, you know, models that, that know they are a brand. They know that their social media is in 500 K plus range or a million, even as far as followers go and they know who they are and what they are.

And, and, and they want a platform like ours to say, I want to buy it. I want to control it. And so they don’t even want us on the contract when it comes to the hosting, which is fine, but it makes sense because then it can move it to anywhere.

Speaker 1 (36m 14s): Yeah. I will say you guys are extremely flexible and we, you, you do do definitely knocked down the barriers to entry, for sure. So, so give me a couple examples of how your platforms being used right now.

Speaker 2 (36m 29s): So we have one, one client who came from another CMS, they had we’ll have four or five sites. Their niche is in the fetish niche, and they wanted a certain look. They actually gave us a very strict criteria, said, look, we have, we already have so many users. We are already on this. We want to host it in this instance, w we don’t want to change hosting. We just want your system. And the problems of the current systems that they were using were lack of support, lack of accountability that was coming from the, from the CMS provider.

So we’re not getting the response we want, how quickly they, if there’s a problem on the CMS, they’re blaming the hosting company, the hosting company is blaming the CMS and just do what they want. All that to stop. This is, this is their headache part of it. Also, they wanted to add the fans platform. So that was a real attractive thing to them. So it was solving multiple, multiple issues. So in this instance, we migrated over their design completely to mimic their original current design. So the user wouldn’t even know that they were moving over to our CMS.

That was one of the criteria. I mean, it’s not a hundred percent, it’s probably 95% the same. Obviously we’re not going to rebuild the entire CMS to be this, you know, functionality, why some of it, because our function, some of our functions they don’t have, but usability wise and look wise, everything was copied over and content wise, you know, you’re talking about four terabytes of content and in this instance, and so that took about three or four months and they went live and we now switch over to fine. They got the head start, they have membership sites, they have a fans and a cam site.

And so this is an instance of, and they’re all running on the same admin on the one server on the one, you know, on the one domain on the, on the multiple domain platform version that we have. And, and not a client was similar to that, but on a higher level. So they have more sites. They, it was cost. Everything was custom had to be custom, made nothing, nothing could be used from the original system that we have pretty much, they added new new competition, for example. So Mo users can, can, you know, click on a particular photo video set and all that week.

So it’s like a weekly competition. And then whoever wins, the model gets a little bit of money from the, from the, you know, a little bit of a bonus check. And these are all kind of custom modules that we had to create in this instance. And, but it was very traditional adult. So it was, you know, they have a kind of a girl girl version and the single girl and a, and a glamour and a amateur. And so it was all of these traditional niches in their membership world, but now they want it to move to the fans and they wanted everything to be combined at once.

So when a model signs up, they can, they check the boxes. So yes, I am amateur. Yes, I am glamour. Yes, I am this, can I submit my content? And as I said to you, Bruce, the, the, this company being the really on the cutting edge of, of billing and everything else that we’ve been doing, they they’re the ones coming to us saying everything has to be now approved. So we have to get that in place, but they were already doing it. So this, this company is based out of the UK and they basically have in Europe, as you, as I’m sure, you know, the compliance slot more stricter, especially in the UK than, than most of Europe and most of the world when it comes to adult.

And so they, they had to, you know, they, you just can’t, for example, there’s no, there’s no real explicit nudity on, you know, on their side, unless you, you know, you you’d log in and there’s no, there’s, you know, there’s a cookie, you know, you know, agreement requirement, there’s a enter exit page. There’s all these things that are required. And on top of that, which they already had, which was when a model uploads, a certain amount of content, any content that kind of goes into pending phase, it sent a message gets sent to the administrator.

The administrator is able to go in and approve it and then be able to, and then be able to, you know, put it live basically. And I think that happens on every single stage, but one thing that’s also key has been also the ability for the model to sell that content to the administrator. So even on the fans system, which is really a unique way to do things, is that the fan, the, in the fans platform themselves, the model can say, I, I, I have, I have a piece of content that I would love to sell to your, to the membership.

Awesome. So I don’t know, beyond just selling it to the, to my fans as a, and get a percentage of, I would also have a buyout of, of whatever X dollar is going to be, you know, to sell that into the membership CMS and the administrator can, can counter that. So we have that in place as well. So you can actually still sell the content, which also has to be approved. Okay. So, yeah. So

Speaker 1 (41m 30s): What about hackers? We hear about a lot about that these days and security, how does your platform protects to protect against these threats?

Speaker 2 (41m 39s): We have on the, on the, on the security side of things, we have the user side, we have the ability to block users via IP via too many times. If they’ve logged in incorrectly, their user account can be, can be suspended. Of course, the administrator can manage all of that. That’s on the, on the user side, on the model side, it’s a similar thing where if you try to log in as a model too many times that also gets suspended and block on the admin side, of course, that also has, can happen. So we, we have, we have these, you know, thresholds of how many times can you do something and then get, get blocked?

How many times can you try to, you know, brute force attack our, our admin or model or user login section? So that’s the thing we’ve had for many years because of, of, of client requests. Again, one of the, one of the things that would add to that in the, in the, in the recent years has been, the administration area can be in a completely different domain than the main site. And that domain can be hidden from anyone externally only by seats, either via VPN or IP address or by a URL re redirection.

And, and so that there are ways for us to make sure that that no one can even get into the admin, unless we want them to, we can, we can, we can turn that off and on as, as much as we want. So right to the IP right down to a URL right down to a sub domain or, or, or, or a, sorry, a subnet, not a sub domain or even a sub domain, but so we can create these different domains in order to protect the admin. The other thing we can do with what we’ve done recently is we did a complete audit of our entire software using using a, it wasn’t even an automated system was actually using a company that is really into finding weaknesses in our PHP script.

So there they look for like PHP injection, for example, other other PHP injection basically, is it, can you, can you, can someone go into any of these scripts, for example, the login scripts, and be able to inject fake data data, and actually be able to be able to either gain access or add data to the database constantly with, you know, without actually stopping, because that could cause that can clog up your server for example, and create a lot of denial service attacks. So we’ve just recently done that. We’ve just done an audit of that and fixing all of those issues, obviously going into the latest versions of PHP, which are always important and, and just really coming, trying to come up against any issue that comes up protecting the content.

Of course. So we work with CDNs that will protect the content on, you know, on either a URL basis. Only that URL can, can actually pull that content right. Or using some kind of some kind of session key in order to make sure that they, that content can not be, you know, cannot be like stolen basically. So you’ve got stolen content, user IP issues, and you’ve also got the, the side of the, you know, making sure that the scripts are the latest and the greatest.

I mean, there’s no I can, anyway, anything is hackable, if you really want it to be sure you have to just stay on top of it. And also, I would also say that we, the way we’ve always done things, we don’t collect any sensitive data. Like we let the bank, we let the banks and the credit card companies do that. We let the gateways handle those sides of things. Sure. Our, our, our, our sites, our PCI compliance. So it, it, it, we do run those PCI tests just like we do our own gateway systems. So it is possible, but it also comes to really Bruce.

It comes down to also having, as, you know, a really good relationship with good hosting companies that, that really knows security that can go in and lock down these scripts that can see when there is someone trying to interfere with the network or affect on network.

Speaker 1 (45m 32s): Okay. So what does it take for someone to start their own site

Speaker 2 (45m 37s): Using our platform? All they need to do is sign up. We have a hosted version that that’s a very low monthly price. It’s really just like, it’s a couple of hundred dollars more than just hosting it yourself, really having your own hosts. So it’s kind of, it’s almost like you’re for a couple of hundred dollars, you’re getting your own license and a host. So it’s almost, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s really low. And the, the idea is that you, you sign up, you point your domain to our platform and you just talk to us about what kind of version of our platform you want, whether it be the CMS cans or fans, and keep in mind, those can be a hybrid.

So there’s no reason you can’t have the cams on the top and the fans and the bottom and the CMS on the, on the very bottom. I mean, there’s, it’s not, it’s not a one trick pony. It’s a higher, it’s a, it’s a fully hybrid system. In most cases, clients kind of tend to decide to do more than one domain for each TMS because users get really confused as to what they’re joining and why I think branding is very important. So it’s not a good idea to do that. I mean, you can do, you can definitely merge cams and CMS, for sure. You could do clips on the bottom membership content on top some model profiles below.

And it makes total sense. You know, here are some lines, here are the live models. Here are the clips that you can buy. And here’s some membership stuff you can, you can become a member and get access to. That makes total sense. I think the confusion becomes when you start doing the fans version, which is always why we say you should either have another domain or a sub domain is because that needs to feel like a social media site, more so than the main site or main sites. So I sign up, add a logo, choose your colors, change your website, the info, contact us page terms, conditions, privacy, et cetera, go live.

We, we, we train you on this, you know, we’ll, we’ll sit down and we can actually do this for you, with you. You need to, that’s not a problem for us. And, and you get an hour of training when you sign up for the system. It depends on the, if you get an unlimited license version, then that can go up to five hours, which is a lot of hours to set up and running. So our whole thing is just, we just want you to get up and running. How do I, how do I sign up as a, as a user? How do I sign up as a model? How do I change my logo? How do I change my colors? How do I change the pages on my site? That is really the crux of, of really what you need to know in order to go live is, is how do I become a model?

How do I pay a model? How do I manage a model? And, and, and like I said, before, we keep in mind, we, we have painstakingly and always, always influx, trying to make the better and better and better version of the model dashboard to be the simplest easiest. There’s no training needed. You know, it’s simple. If there’s a profile page, there’s a, where do I change my pricing page? Where do I change my subscriptions page? Those are really created because we’re obviously we’re mimicking ever sites.

We’re seeing what everyone else is doing. And we don’t want people to model specifically to, to, to become so far away from what is traditionally seen already to not feel that this is completely foreign to them. And that’s a really, really important part of it. Sure,

Speaker 1 (48m 47s): Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. So Claude, how can someone get ahold of you?

Speaker 2 (48m 52s): Yeah, so it’s claude@xtenrevenue.com. I have a phone number too. It’s (818) 851-1059. Oh. They can go to X revenue.com or X platform.com. We also have X cms.com X can stop com and X fans.com. So we’ve created sites for every kind of product as well to, because some people have, you know, it makes it easier for them to understand what is the system and what is the kind of platform that they want, even though it is a frigging one, you get all at once.

We do market them at different sites because it makes it easier for some people who are, I’m looking for a fans and I am catering to that kind of product. Right.

Speaker 1 (49m 34s): Right. Yeah. Well, Claude, I’d like to thank you again for being our guests to Dan adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again. Soon. My broker tip today is part five of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about how to determine the value of a website, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement. What should be in it while your attorney will guide you through the legal side. But here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint, what is the date you’d like to close?

Make sure, you know, you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date. I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. In fact, I went through one of those recently, make sure that all the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records, including 2, 2, 5, 7 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites.

Of course, it should spell out any payment schedule. If there is one who is responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow, and there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller situation, this assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your legal representative so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week we’ll be talking to adult industry writer, Ralph Grecco. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Claude Lai. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Raja of Chargeback Help.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website at adult-site-broker-dot-com.
We’ve added some enhancements to the site, such as FAQs, and a complete new platform.
The look and feel of the new site are nice and up to date.
The new site also has links to our marketplace and affiliate program.

And don’t forget ASB Marketplace, the first platform where you can buy and sell adult sites and domains for FREE!
ASB Marketplace allows buyers and sellers the chance to come together on properties that are valued below our company’s minimum of 50,000 dollars.
Don’t pay for other marketplaces when ASB Marketplace gives you this service for free.
Visit ASB-Marketplace-dot-com and sign up as a seller or as a buyer today.

And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. The first NSFW social media platform in the world. The web app benefits from innovative technologies that enable over 960,000 members to instantly share their sexy photos and videos via computer or mobile. Today, the site has more than 200 new members signing up daily with zero spent on marketing. These leads are essentially coming from organic SEO, word of mouth and premium backlinks.

The site has received great articles and top magazines such as Playboy daily dot refinery, 29 and more in 2019, the site started recurring subscriptions, which made it a more private platform since only registered members now have access to the content while it impacted the traffic on the platform. The user base is now very valuable as the site only accepts verified users. There are now over 60,000 active members. Average time on the site is over 10 minutes.

The site has a team of four super-users moderating the platform to ensure there is no illegal content among the photos and videos. Also there’s a report feature so that every member can report content that might infringe on somebody’s writes.

Speaker 2 (2m 60s): The site gets most of its traffic from the USA, Brazil, Mexico, France, and Spain, all this for only $843,000. Next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, coral and Juul will welcome male performer and producer, Texas bolster, but you can find the hanky panky podcast@hankypankypodcast.com and wherever fine podcasts can be heard. Now time for this week’s interview.

My guest today and adult site broker talk is Raja Choudhury of chargeback help. Roger, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Now. Raja is founder and CEO of chargeback help. Roger has worked in the e-commerce space since its infancy in the nineties, starting out as a merchant entrepreneur, Roger gained extensive experience in payment processing and its risk. In particular, you notice the chargebacks and fraud cost him and his peers, significant time and resources to deal with.

And in many case, colleagues were losing their processing entirely. So in 2013, he co-founded chargeback help to help merchants fight back against fraud and chargebacks. The venture has since grown with offices in the U S and Europe with clients ranging from small high-risk businesses to enterprise level firms with large merchant portfolios, chargeback help currently provides dispute management solutions through an essay S S platform called chargeback help. Plus the platform integrates a variety of tools that not only help merchants reduce chargebacks, but also allow them to recover revenue from friendly fraud and even prevent the disputes that become chargebacks from ever happening in the first place.

Chargeback help has its roots in adult. Now, Roger, maybe you can tell us a little about yourself and how chargeback health came to be.

Speaker 3 (4m 59s): You did a pretty good job in explaining here we are. We, we started off as merchants in the adult space. We’ve run adult offers for, I can say decades now. I can’t believe I can say that. That’s really true.

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): We’re both old. Now

Speaker 3 (5m 21s): We were having, we were having an issue with chargebacks and we were given an opportunity by a company called verify to become one of their first reselling partners in the, in the adult space. And that’s sort of how we got our start.

Speaker 2 (5m 40s): Now let’s talk about where did charge backs come from? And maybe you can explain the more for the lay person

Speaker 3 (5m 48s): Ashley. One of my pet projects is to help people understand the birth of chargebacks and why we’re in this mess to begin with. So in the 19, we have to go back all the way to the 1970s. And the 1970s is sort of when credit cards starting becoming popular in the U S and the government needed the credit card companies to come up with the way so that consumers could dispute a transaction with the credit card companies.

And in the 1970s, the consumer protection act was born and they created charge backs, right? So this system that we’re dealing with now has its roots to an, to a commerce space in the 1970s where there’s no internet, there’s no recurring transactions. Everything had to be done in person. So the, the idea of a chargeback was that it would, it was never supposed to be designed for a card, not present situation.

It was never supposed to be designed to be done over the phone or over email or over fax, right? The chargeback space has simply evolved to those sectors because no ones, no one until very recently has decided to overhaul this chargeback process. Again, that was started in the 1970s. But thankfully it looks like these are MasterCard are making some significant changes to the, to the dispute system.

This call is sort of about an opportunity to talk about those changes and how they’re going to affect all merchants and what they can do to be prepared for them.

Speaker 2 (7m 44s): Interesting. Interesting. And when do you think that they’ll have those, those rules and regulations finished?

Speaker 3 (7m 53s): I mean, I’ve been talking about them for a couple of years now, and these, I was supposed to launch them April of this year. They delayed that until October of this year. It is my opinion that they are going to miss the October deadline as well. And we are probably looking at a soft launch, maybe next April.

Speaker 2 (8m 19s): Now, I guess, going along with this, the card networks want to retire the term charge back. Why would they want to do that?

Speaker 3 (8m 28s): Well, again, the term, the term chargeback is archaic and it’s not really descriptive of exactly what is going on, which is simply a dispute between a merchant and the consumer. So the term chargeback is supposed to represent the settled transaction, where it has been determined that the liability lies with the merchant and not the, and not the consumer and not the actual process of the dispute.

So what we’re going to do now is we’re going to go back to very, very basics. And we’re going to talk about these things as disputes, which is what they are simply a dispute between a merchant and a consumer. Okay.

Speaker 2 (9m 15s): Okay. Now explain dispute management for us and how it goes beyond chargebacks.

Speaker 3 (9m 21s): Sure. So dispute management goes again, every time there’s a point of contention between a merchant and the consumer. We’re going to call that a dispute and not simply a chargeback. And what visa has done recently, and MasterCard will as sued to follow is they’ve created mechanisms that allow merchants to send back transaction information directly to the consumers, issuing bank at the onset of a dispute.

Meaning that right now, what happens is you have this process where a consumer gets to call their bank and simply state their side of the story. And the issuing bank has no idea what happened on the merchant side. Well now through a product called order insights for MasterCard, sorry for visa and consumer clarity for MasterCard, the consumer’s bank can click a button and request more information regarding that particular transaction that the consumer is disputing.

And in real time, the merchant has the opportunity to send the transaction data to the issuing bank and show the issuing bank that the consumer did. In fact, make this purchase did receive the goods or services and did interact with the product right

Speaker 2 (10m 43s): Now. Now, how does chargeback help provide dispute management for your clients?

Speaker 3 (10m 49s): Well, so we, we are connected to the visa and MasterCard dispute this new system. We then therefore, so we do charge back end to end. At the beginning of the dispute, we send it, we send the information to the issuing bank to help persuade the issuing bank that the transaction is in fact, not eligible to become a chargeback and the liability side with the consumer. If the, if the, if the issuing bank still believes that they want to proceed with the charge back then it becomes, it gets diverted to an alert.

And at this stage, the Merton, the merchant has the opportunity to accept the liability on the transaction refund, the transaction and the charge back will go away. The merchant also has an opportunity to be like, you know what? We still want to fight this charge back through what we call the representant and then the merchant can tell the issuing bank, you know what? Go ahead, file the charge back. We’re going to represent. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (11m 56s): Tell us more about the representation.

Speaker 3 (11m 59s): Sure. Represent is once, once it has been, once a chargeback is received by the merchant, they have an opportunity to file some paperwork and some documentation to show that the chargeback was in fact, a valid transaction and that’s the consumer should be liable for the purchase.

Speaker 2 (12m 19s): Okay. Are you, is this done in most cases?

Speaker 3 (12m 23s): No, it has done in very few cases. I think that the actual representation stats are something like 10% of chargebacks are represented. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (12m 35s): Why

Speaker 3 (12m 35s): Is that? Most merchants don’t don’t know how to do it, or they’ve tried a couple of times and they’ve either done them wrong or they didn’t submit enough documentation. And so they’ve, they, they lose a couple of represent mints and the packages take some time to put together. So they decide it’s not worth it.

Speaker 2 (12m 55s): And you do that for your clients.

Speaker 3 (12m 57s): We do. I mean, that’s one of our core businesses is we, we put together the packages on behalf of our merchants. We are very good at automating this process so that we connect through the merchant via API, and we gather all the data electronically and then put the package together. We also connect to the merchant cake, our merchant bank accounts, our merchant accounts, so that we can pull the chargebacks directly from the merchant accounts.

And then together without me put the packages together through integrations to the merchants, gateway and CRM.

Speaker 2 (13m 36s): Hmm. That’s great. Now let’s talk a little more about compelling evidence as it relates to adult. What’s the best data for adult merchants to use and fighting chargebacks.

Speaker 3 (13m 48s): The more proof that the merchant can show that the consumer integrated with the product or use the product to better off the merchant is so login history, any content that they viewed, any customer service emails, any phone calls, if they, if they are using a call center that records the phone calls, we can even attach a, a, a voice file will allow the issuing bank to play the message.

Any, if it’s, if they have chat history, if it’s a dating site, they may have chat history between the consumer and a potential date, or if it’s a campsite, they may even have cam to camp, which we have submitted is one of my favorite. One of my favorite methods of proof is when we have cam the cam evidence of a consumer using the product,

Speaker 2 (14m 41s): I love it. I love it. Now, how can adult merchants prevent unrecognized transactions? It’s a real challenge since adult merchants have to be somewhat discreet and what descriptors go on a customer’s bank statements, you know, for instance, it’s, you know, XYZ Inc or whatever.

Speaker 3 (14m 60s): Sure. I mean, the answer is that they, once they, on, once the consumer goes to the URL, first of all, they should all be using a URL in their descriptor so that the consumer has a destination to go to, to resolve any disputes that they might have with their transactions. And, you know, you through some very basic, like email and last four of the credit card, they can see all their transaction history.

And if they want to cancel their membership, they’re able to do so. Or if they want to dispute their last, their last month of a member ship, they’re able to do so for their last token purchase, whatever it is, you give them electronic means to dispute those things. And oftentimes it’s better just to refund the last transaction and, you know, keep everything else. Got it. That’s step one. And I was gonna, I was gonna say as well, there are a number of tools that they can use to help prevent fraud, such as AVS check, which is address verification.

Right. You know, you can make sure that the address that they’re entering on the credit card page matches the same one on their, on their billing page, on their building profile with their issuing thing. Right.

Speaker 2 (16m 25s): Okay. Anything else?

Speaker 3 (16m 26s): Yeah. I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s 3d secure, which we’re messing around with, as some people know, 3d secure doesn’t protect adult transactions with visa. It does on MasterCard. I hope that’s true. I always get that confused, but I know that 3d secure 2.0, looks like it’s going to work across the board for all adult transactions. So we are playing with it. But if we are, it does result in increased declines, which a lot of merchants don’t like, obviously.

So we’re trying to balance out the 3d secure protection along with making sure that we’re giving the merchants as many transactions as possible.

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): Well, yeah, I mean, you decrease your declines, but you also, you know, to greatly decrease your chargebacks in the long run, you could be out of head, right?

Speaker 3 (17m 18s): Well, that’s the balancing act, right? I mean, if you, if you want to minimize fraud, you can decline every single transaction. You’re going to have no fraud and have no business. So what we do is we try and we try and accept the mouth, some amount of fraud while maximizing the revenue. So there’s an inflection point that happens in the data where you’ll be like, okay, if we, you know, let’s say we turned off AVS, and now we’re getting a whole bunch of approvals, but the chargeback is too high.

Then we’ll turn AVS back on for a merchant. I mean, okay, that’s an acceptable level of fraud where we’re mitigating. Most of it, our chargeback ratios are women acceptable levels and away we go. And that’s sort of what we’re, where we specialize is helping merchants really maximize their dispute prevention while at the same time, I think their revenue, it is not, you know, even though we are in the business of selling fraud prevention data, it is not our goal to sell as much data to our consumers.

It is our goal to sell them only the data that is relevant for their business.

Speaker 2 (18m 29s): That’s awesome. Now you’ve obviously been in this industry for a long time and you’ve, you’ve had your own sites for a long time. What kind of an advantage does that give you in dealing with other site owners about their charges?

Speaker 3 (18m 44s): Well, I think that, you know, some of our competitors have never been merchants, so they don’t actually understand all the costs that go into running a website, like affiliates, traffic, customer support, you know, they’re not, they’re not trying to, and we also understand that merchants are trying to maximize their retention revenue to maximize, you know, everything. And we, because we understand every single factor that goes into running a successful affiliate type business or friggin affiliate business and a successful e-commerce business, I make, it puts us in a position to understand our merchants predicaments.

You know, oftentimes we tell our merchants, for example, that we know that the affiliates have to get paid first, right? Cashflow comes into account. If we could help our merchants out, we’re more than willing to help our merchants out by telling them that, you know, you have to pay the affiliates first. And I understand that. Sure.

Speaker 2 (19m 49s): Now give us the lay of the land in dispute management. The sick this sector has seen a lot of changes in recent years, who were the key players. I mean, obviously the card networks, visa and MasterCard, but they’re, they’ve also brought, they’re also brought in on the dispute space as well. So tell us a little more about that.

Speaker 3 (20m 10s): Obviously dispute management starts with, with the card schemes, visa, MasterCard, American express discover may have recently acquired a couple of companies. MasterCard bought a company called Ethica and visa bought a company called verify. We were, we started off as resellers of both Ethica and verify and with their recent acquisitions, by the card schemes, we are now direct partners with visa and MasterCard visa, and MasterCard don’t have a relationship with merchants or consumers.

They have a relationship with issuing banks and acquiring banks. So what that means is that these are MasterCard are going to push these products out to consumers, through the issuing banks and to merchants through the acquiring bank. So recently we have built products to help, to help acquiring banks connect these products to merchants. So acquiring banks, for example, have no idea how to connect to a merchant CRM, but we do it helping a client thinks, you know, visa and MasterCard have been asking, acquiring banks to deliver these products to their merchants.

And we’ve been helping the acquiring banks become able to do so through a white labeled our system or through an API integration, or are we do the back office support or the acquirer or the ISO? We do it a number of different ways.

Speaker 2 (21m 40s): Okay. Now is everybody in adult considered high risk? And if so, why is that?

Speaker 3 (21m 46s): Yes, everybody in adults is considered high risk. The answer is very simple. The, the number of disputes in our space is higher than it’s higher than the norm. Sure. Visa and MasterCard consider the norm to be a card present transaction. So any card not present transaction is considered a little bit higher risk, but you know, adult is obviously high risk. We are, we have to pay a high risk registration fee to build these and MasterCard.

And that is not going to go away anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (22m 24s): Okay. Now what are some of the, oh, I’m sorry, go ahead. This is true. Now, what are some of the common pitfalls or mistakes that high risk merchants get into?

Speaker 3 (22m 37s): They can get into taking aggressive traffic from aggressive affiliates, you know, affiliates who are maybe not telling the entire truth to a consumer, something like saying, you know, join this site and you’ll get a million movies. And then the consumer joins the site and there’s only 10 movies in the site, for example, well, that’s going to lead to a dispute, right? Because the consumer was promised something that wasn’t there. Yes. Right. Or they go to, or they go to buy a product and the login information takes 24 hours to get to them.

Well, in our world, these guys are looking for instant gratification. So that information better be there in seconds after them putting a credit card. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23m 27s): What else

Speaker 3 (23m 28s): On answering, not answering a pay support email within a few hours, right. Having, having a consumer call a support number and being put on hold for 20 minutes, those are all things that are going lead to that are gonna lead to disputes and therefore charge. Okay.

Speaker 2 (23m 48s): Now what kind of ROI should merchants expect from chargeback helps dispute management.

Speaker 3 (23m 55s): Interesting question. It’s hard to, it’s hard to quantify. I’m going to do my best. Okay. So it really depends on the level of interaction or the level of proof got the merchant has four between the consumer and their product. If it’s a physical goods product and the merchant is diligent about showing the shipping information and they’re requiring a signature on shipment while we win 90%, if it’s, if it’s a very aggressive dating, dating merchant and the level of interaction between the consumer and the product is minimal, we’re going to win 30%.

So it’s, it’s a wide range. And really, it really depends on, you know, the level of data, how much data the merchant can show us that shows the interaction. And again, to the interaction between the consumer and the product, that’s the most important thing. Okay. And we can show the consumer’s bank that they use the product. It was them that made the transaction to them. We’re going to win most of the time.

Speaker 2 (25m 6s): Yeah, no, there’s been a lot in the news lately about, you know, through the whole series of articles in the New York times, for example, and mine, geeky when lost, they’re processing it for a, for a brief time. So based on all that, what is the future of high-risk processing look like? Especially in the adult space,

Speaker 3 (25m 29s): It is my opinion that in the adult space, we should, we should, you know, let’s let these stories just go and help that they get buried. I think that the worst thing we can do is talking about them and, you know, and even ask for dialogue between the card, schemes enough. Yeah. The card schemes know we exist. Right. We need it. We need them a lot more than they need us. This is true. They would, they wouldn’t like these stories to just go away.

They don’t want to be, they don’t want to be tied to, or have, or be forced to make a decision on anything. No, it’s true. You know, they make good revenue from it, but they don’t need it. If it becomes a PR problem for them, they will dump it.

Speaker 2 (26m 16s): Okay. So basically the bottom line is let’s keep our noses clean so they don’t have more reasons to dump us.

Speaker 3 (26m 23s): Exactly. Okay. We are right. Those again, the witch hunt against, against PornHub was nothing a foreign pornhub’s doing there. It was, you know, about article, right?

Speaker 2 (26m 38s): Yeah. A couple bad articles actually. And yeah.

Speaker 3 (26m 43s): With a lot of line.

Speaker 2 (26m 44s): Yeah. You never heard back. That’s true. One, one merchant, I’m sorry. One, one writer seeming to have a vendetta against the industry

Speaker 3 (26m 55s): For years.

Speaker 2 (26m 55s): So how can merchants get in touch with you?

Speaker 3 (26m 58s): Pretty easily hardback health.com. We have a contact form on our website as well. They can email me personally, Raja R a J a@chargebackhealth.com and can be found at most trade shows, buying drinks late at night.

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): Yes. I know about that part. So Raja and I hope we’ll be seeing each other at those trade shows soon, counting on, on Prague happening live. I guess they just did more. So the chances are

Speaker 3 (27m 34s): Got a couple of guys. We had a couple of guys in <inaudible>. They had a good time. The show was fruitful. I am, I’m going to be in New York or affiliate summit east next week, July 15th through 20th. And then, and then I’m planning on being at the, at the shows in, in the fall. I’m a little sad this year that there is no October Fest as you may or may not know. I look forward to that every single year, but 2022 will be a bigger than usual.

I hope

Speaker 2 (28m 9s): We’re all, we’re all counting on it. Well, Hey, I’d like to thank you once again for being our guest today on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon.

Speaker 3 (28m 19s): Thank you very much, Bruce. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (28m 22s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part four of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer. The work really begins. If you’re working with a broker, like say, oh, I don’t know, maybe adult site broker, we handled the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counteroffer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them.

A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day and any other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing.

You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and your developer should ask those pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself drop a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to pay an attorney and to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you make the rules, however, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney changed. Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on.

Another thing we do for our clients is to do a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all of the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow. For instance, this can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Claude from X10.

And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Raja from Chargeback Help. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Ava Durga.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale. That adult site broker actually our property the week this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available. In addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters right now, we have a campsite dating sites and pay sites available. We also have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons.

These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyer’s NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, coral and Juul will interview Tony bones, adult male, performer, producer, and personality. You can find the hanky panky podcast, of course, at hanky panky podcast.com and wherever fine podcasts can be heard.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult type broker talk is Ava Durga of circle of Q Ava. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk, thanks for inviting me. I’m glad to be here. It’s a pleasure. Now, Ava first discovered the fun of feminizing males in 2001 and began helping cross-dressers sissies and bi-curious males achieve their potential at the sissy parlor in south Florida in 2017. She’s also the co-founder of circle of cue.

Her work is focused on helping cross-dressers except their feminine side, which often includes the desire for receptive sexuality is a key part of their psyche. That should be embraced circle of Q as a private online social community and dating site for cross-dressers sissies. By curious men and admirers, it was founded by Ava and her friend, Rebecca Lynn, AKA sissy, Becca, to provide a safer, more personal alternative to typical sissy hookup sites.

Easy for me to say now, unlike many other sites, circle of Q doesn’t inflate its membership with fake profiles or allow bots and scammers. The site is growing organically with real people to learn more, visit circle of q.com. Now, Ava, how did you get started working with cross-dressers and sissies? Hmm,

Speaker 2 (4m 9s): Well, back in 2001 I’d been a corporate person, but I took a little adventure break from a corporate life. And I became the office manager for a large professional dungeon called the dominant divas in Fort Lauderdale, which was a couple of blocks from the courthouse, which was really a lot of fun. So one of, one of my jobs as the office manager was to do intake on clients and I manage the hire to manage the houseboys and hired to manage the mistresses. And I also did intake and client relations and that sort of thing.

So one of my jobs was to make them comfortable when they came in, show them around and match them up with a mistress relatively early on. There was one gentleman who came in. I still remember a very tall lanky blonde guy, maybe 50 ish. And he came in rather quiet. I’m showing them around, I’m taking him on upstairs. Here’s the bondage room. Here’s suspension room. Here’s the kitchen. Here’s the jury box. Here’s the, you know, the w the wheel and the impact playroom all these things.

And he’s following me like an obedient little puppy, just watching in very quiet. Like they all did. I got to what we call the sissy parlor, which I named my place after. And it was behind these two big French doors and I throw them open. And every time I tell this story, I can hear angels singing in the background because he, so I threw out the door and you’d have to imagine the sissy parlor was probably the largest room in the dungeon. It was full man, size, clothes, shoes, wigs, makeup, lingerie, fluffy things on the wall.

It was succinct Nirvana. And this guy, he stood there and he just, he almost went catatonic. I just saw him there, stock still. And then I looked at it, I noticed his eyes were welling up. Like he was going to cry. And I said, so what do you think? Or what’s going on? I wasn’t sure what to make of this reaction. And he opened it. We sat, he opened up to me and he told me a story that in the subsequent 20 something years, I’ve heard over and over again, yes.

Married, responsible, professional, built the career, had the kids, had the wife, loved his kids, went to Sunday school, all these things that he had discovered early on in his life. He got a really good feeling from wearing panties or putting on women’s clothes. Okay. I think he might’ve introduced this to his wife who promptly shot it down. And so he was doing what so many men did and do his, he was a covert, cross-dresser a closet. So he had a few, he had a few pairs of panties stashed and in gym bag.

And when he would have an opportunity, he would, he would wear them. Maybe he’d go off to a hotel and have his own. Or when he came, I think he was from the Midwest somewhere. When it came to Fort Lauderdale for a medical conference, he looked up and he saw there was this dungeon. So he just thought he would treat himself. And so he, he, he cause are there that many, like me other that many more like me? And I said, yes, you have to understand there’s a lot. So, and the story again, he had gotten married. He built the career. He put all these desires on hold, except when he could sneak it out, felt very guilty about it, but it was still very, you know, something that he couldn’t put away.

A lot of them don’t buy clothes. It’s the purge cycle ask any cross-dresser. Most of them have thrown away thousands of dollars of clothes, if not more, because they’ll get discussed with themselves and think it’s bad and shameful and throw it away again. So over. So he tells me, he told me this story, he really didn’t understand there were that many like him, and there was such a sense of relief that he wasn’t. And over the years I heard the same story. These are the cross-dressers that I work with are typically aren’t they aren’t trans women per se.

They don’t want to transition. They don’t want to be women all the time. They’re not gay. They just like going into this alternative space and which is actually relatively harmless. If you think about all the things they could be doing and all that, all the stories I heard and have still heard about, you know, marriage is being broken up issues that just because he likes to do this recreational, it makes them feel good that suddenly he’s a pariah is, you know, there are family issues. It’s really a big drama just because of this gender play.

And so he kept it closeted. And when you’re so, so many cross-dressers, they’re closeted, they don’t really have anybody to interact with. And it’s not necessarily just for play sexual play. Although some of them certainly want that. Some of them might be just perfectly happy dressing at home, but they want somebody else to, to know where to show somebody or to talk to somebody else. Who’s going the things that they’re going through. And that’s actually where a circle of, well, first when I, after I started the sissy parlor, which I guess I get back to, and then I, I started the blue bells meetup group in south Florida because there was no real social community for cross-dressers where they could get together and meets.

We started that. And within a year, I think we went from zero to 500 members in no time flat free thing. And then, but that really wasn’t enough. And so then eventually my friends to see Becca and I started circle of Q, which is an, a way to online for them to meet online and social lives. I’ll, I’ll re re wind a little bit to the sissy parlors. I think I left out a big chunk of that. So, okay. So after I went out of, I stayed with the dungeon for, it was under a year and went back to corporate consulting and doing my thing, but I still kept my toes in the water of the kink community.

And so, you know, I’d go. And so in 2017, I was at beyond leather, which is a camp conference in Fort Lauderdale. They’re not very good educational conference. And I was sitting next to a woman who at that time was an acquaintance. Her name was lady Katara. She was a headmistress of club femme down here and had for many years, been a pro Dom specializing in sissies cross dressers. So we sat next to each other at a cocktail party and started talking in general about cross-dressing and sissies and justification and feminization and what the I’m going to make very broad strokes here, what the typical dungeon or the typical kink scene did not offer, fell short for many of them.

Right. And part of that was a sense of belonging and acceptance, not so much the humiliation, right. And a feeling of community. And so she says, I think you, you have that vibe because I’m not a, I’m not a lead overbearing, dominant leather mistress. I don’t, you know, that’s not my style. It is a style that many likes, but it’s not my style. I’m more encouraging and developmental. And at that time I said, I don’t think I can be like, can I be a pro Dom? I’m rather affirming actually. Right. I really don’t enjoy tearing people down. I learned, enjoy putting them, you know, building them back up.

She goes that’s exactly. And she goes, that’s exactly the issue. Exactly the issue. So she said, I think you should go into practice and I’ll help you from a, be your mentor. So on, it was sort of, I rented a one bedroom apartment. She gave me some clothes. Other people donated things. And before you knew it, I had my own sissy parlor, which operated until, oh, it was great. It was great. Met the, you know, met the most wonderful people, the most wonderful clients. And then through the blue bells and finally circle of CUDA, some wonderful people.

So that’s how that came about. And then sissy, Becca. And I started talking because I had started something already sort of a smaller community where people would know each other because it came, they would say, do you know any other car I’m flying to London, miss Seva for business. I’d really like to have dinner with somebody there. Do you know any cross-dressers in London, miss save, I’m going to, I’m going to Denver. Do you know any cross-dress any friends in Denver who might want to hang out? I was like, well, there needs to be something like that. And so I started doing sort of a small way of my own.

It was going to be called friends of Ava and everybody had verification and I knew everybody and did interviews and such. And then Becca said, you know, we gotta make this bigger with that. There’s opportunity for some to reach a whole lot more people through a social community, a dating site. And she had being assisted. Of course, I had my perspective as a mistress and talking to my clients, but Becca had the perspective as a long time sissy, it was very typical and what was missing and what was missing out there in terms of connecting and communicating. And that’s how circle of cue then came about, was trying to create a community where they could meet.

They could get support, they could find playmates if they wanted, they could find buddies if they wanted, they could work and get information if they wanted, but they weren’t going to feel alone. And they weren’t going to feel like, like corporate prey either. I might be being a little bit harsh, but sissies are ripe for the plucking. They’re, they’re a, it’s a, it’s a large group. It’s a group that’s often marginalized. They don’t often fit into the trans umbrella, which is often protect. There’s a lot of trans outfit, trans resources out there, but they just didn’t have this community of their own and this way of interacting with people that was safe and they can get used to.

So that’s how circle of cue came about. And yeah, I’m, I’m really proud of what we put together there and are starting to put together anyway. So,

Speaker 1 (13m 37s): So what do you exactly do now? A circle. Q, are you a mistress?

Speaker 2 (13m 43s): Well, I still, I still, during COVID, COVID forced me to shut my actual apartment, the parlor. So I C I no longer advertise or take new clients for live sessions. I still have a fairly solid small group of regular clients who I have ongoing professional relationships with. And I work on night flirt and through my own on weapon and phone. So, so in that regard, I’m still a mistress in circle of queue my role as a facilitator.

Right. Matriarch, I guess. And so if, if I love, yeah, I, I, there was a time I wouldn’t have liked that term right now. I kind of liked that term. Yes. I’m boss lady of circle of cute, but I’m really not. The members are, and we’ve got some real personalities.

Speaker 1 (14m 30s): Fantastic. Now I hear a lot about cross-dressers sissies and trans women. What’s the difference?

Speaker 2 (14m 38s): So the difference between I’ll try to make this simple behavior and identity. So if someone is transgender identifies as a trans woman, we’ll keep it simple transgender. That generally means that the sex they were assigned at birth is different from how they identify now. Right? So if they were born with a penis and they were called a boy and they were assigned male, but, but they start recognizing that internally, they really identify as female.

Then that would be transgender. They are crossing their gender in a more permanent way. That’s part of their identity and who they are. They don’t really feel complete without that, you know, that, that being a main part of their life, that’s who they are with a recreational cross stressor, cross stressor. It’s more, I don’t want to dismiss it because it is an identity in a way it’s something that seems to be part of them. It’s not something they can just walk away from for years at a time and come back to without thinking about it. But it does sort of, it does ebb and flow with many of them, but it’s a recreation.

It’s a place they go when they put on panties. And I can even hear cross-dressers out there nodding, cause it’s almost universal. I say, how does it feel when you dress? There is something that comes over them. You can almost see a change in their demeanor and their personality. But if you ask a cross-dresser to describe what does it feel like when you dress? They have a hard time describing it, but they’ll tell you they have a hard time describing, but it’s powerful since I’m a CIS woman. I haven’t described, I haven’t felt I can, I can maybe relate to it in some degree because you know, when, when I go into a fetish party and I’ve got my, you know, I dress the part, there is something that comes over you.

I can’t really say it, but you’re in your power. There’s a psychological term called enclosed cognition, which is, there are measurable changes in people’s behavior perception, just based on what they have on. And even without somebody else they’re reflecting back to them. So I think, I think part of it that might explain part of it. I don’t know. One of my big, my, one of my big dreams in life is to find a neurologist and get an EEG machine and line up a bunch of cross stressors and, and measure their brains before and after they dress.

And if there’s any neurologists listening to this who want to volunteer to do this experiment with me, I’m looking for somebody who’s qualified. I just think that would be fun. It’s just a very toe in the water. Kind of look into what happens with the cross stressor.

Speaker 1 (17m 13s): Yeah. That would be 70 really interesting. Wouldn’t

Speaker 2 (17m 16s): It? And this is the first time I’ve verbalized that to anybody outside my small circle, but that’s sort of my brand. I know I’m the mistress, Dr. Frankenstein, right across dressers. I want to do all kinds of experiments on them when they have panties on and see what happens. But they, but oh, we were talking about how they feel. I think when they’re dressed, I don’t think that’s something that they can ever really completely put away. And as they, and that’s wrong segue into is as they, the reason I see so many older cross-dressers I think by time they get to me are a lot of them, their forties, fifties, sixties, I think the younger ones, there are more women accepting of it.

And their society in general is more accepting of gender crossing of all sorts. Sure. Whereas men, they get in their forties, fifties. I think part of it is cultural because they grew up with so much shame around it. But I think a lot of it is because they’ve spent their twenties and thirties and maybe forties doing everything everybody else tells them to do, right. Get married, build a career, buy a house, have some kids make a bunch of money, do all these things that you’re supposed to do. And if you want her panic wear panties to relax on the side of play, instead of playing golf, well, maybe you can sneak away and be ashamed of it.

But a lot of times they just kind of put it aside or they put it aside to a degree they don’t want to. Right. Then the kids grow and you start hitting a certain age and you look at the back nine and say, oh, if not now, when I’ve done this for everybody else. And what is the harm in me wanting to wear panties? What is the harm in seeing what I look like and full makeup? What is the harm in seeing how I feel when I put on heels and I practice walking with my pelvis, rotating across the room, all these experimental things, and a lot of them increasing and make the decision they ask, they’re going to experiment with it and they’re going to be more fully into it.

And the fact that they are able to have that sort of support network now through technology, that they were never able to get from family or spouses, or, and I’m not, I’m not, I’m not dismissing spout. I’m not saying dump your spouse and go be across. You know, it’s not that sort of thing, but it is a huge factor for many of them married to somebody. Right. And so, but I think there are an increasing number of outlets for them. And I think that’s good for their mental health. I really think a cross dresser who was denied, loses a very important part of their, in some cases of their sexuality and some of their ability to relax, to go into a different world.

I mean, what’s wrong. We hear all kinds of in the corporate world, psychological world play, why is play so important? It’s very important. But all the articles talk about play as being maybe vanilla sex or golfing or sailing or doing something like that. They don’t think of the fact that that going into an altered state, a parallel reality, or an altered state of consciousness during that few hours that they put panties on might be a very beneficial thing psychologically.

And then they take off

Speaker 1 (20m 27s): That and playing paintball. Right?

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): I don’t see any, I honestly don’t see any and it’s an outlet for them. And there’s a whole lot of reasons that men cross stress. Sure. There’s obviously, it’s, it’s, it’s a sexual turn on for many of them, for various reasons. Some of them, they find they might start with it sexually, but then just finally like to relax, women’s panties and nineties are way more comfortable than boxer shorts. T-shirts buy it by a mile. For many, it lets them exhibit a creative side of their personality or a flirty side or playful side.

That’s suppressed in their daily life. If you think Bruce about what’s in your closet and I’m only guessing, cause I might be surprised at what’s in your home. I’m never

Speaker 3 (21m 15s): Surprised. No, you wouldn’t be it wouldn’t be too surprised.

Speaker 2 (21m 20s): But think about a typical man’s wardrobe or walking through the men’s section in a store, you’ve got a very limited number of colors, textures, fabrics, and styles that you can choose from. You basically have a man uniform, you have a few uniforms to pick from right now. Women’s space. You go on and you can go on Amazon now, right? You can dress to the nines like a slut. You can have an evening gown, you can be pink or blue or purple or red, all these things.

And believe me, they love it. Love it. And so there, I guess what I think of cross dressers is a different part of their personality and it’s focused and it’s time limited and it’s space limited, but it’s still part of them. So if you, and it’s not something hidden, it’s just part that they tried out of the right time. So you can draw a parallel with any person that the guy who is exhibiting road rage and traffic and the same guy on his floor playing with his kid and the same guy, giving a presentation at work, they are going to be completely separate personas, completely separate reactions, completely inappropriate to bleed over into each other.

But they’re all part of that person, right? They’re just brought out at certain times. So cross dressing has a level of shame to it, but I still think it’s not that much different from imagine a little there’s going to be sex. It’s imagine a little girl in her Barbie kitchen. She’s five years old. She’s totally immersed in being housewife or cooking the gourmet meal or wherever in Barbie kitchen. Right. She’s totally, there cross-dresser goes in that same kind of mind space, not like a little girl in the kitchen, but in the, the, we were talking about the concept of play, right?

They consistently say, once they’ve had this playtime, that’s released, the pressure valve is off. Right. And they go back to man mode and they’re happy until next. That’s the difference between trans drag Queens are where exaggerated female clothing for performance. Right? And it may metal exaggerated, but it’s performance art, right? So that would be the bank. I’ve seen

Speaker 1 (23m 39s): Them here. I’ve seen the shows in Thailand and they are pretty spectacular. But when they had life, when, when they had live shows here, we went to one with, with a couple who were at her, on their honeymoon from our industry actually. And oh, what a show? What a show. So do cross-dressers have different challenges from training?

Speaker 2 (24m 1s): Yes they do. First is because, because transgender issues have come to the forefront, there are a lot of transgender sites and there are a lot of I’m talking about serious. Not, it’s not about quote unquote tranny porn, which is fetishized, but I’m talking about rosters trans sites. So when they go and they want to socialize, they often land as a support, poor stepchildren on trans sites. They’re not really transgender. They don’t want to be a woman. They don’t want to find a man for a long-term relationship necessarily.

They, you know, they, they just want to have buddies girlfriends, right. To talk to and cross dress with. And so on the trans sites, they’re often feel a kind of marginalized because they’re not transgendered and they’re not dealing with the issues that transgender sites usually deal with gender politics, identity, you know, these sorts of deeper rooted issues about changing your gender. Aren’t really applicable to them. Some of them are makeup and so forth. So that’s one, you know, the, the, the challenge they have, another one is, you know, how much of this, I call it a, a safe container where they can go into play space.

Sometimes they have problems, compartmentalizing, you know, how much can this bleed over into my real life? Because there, there is, there’s a lot of gray area, but those are the two main ones. I think those are the two main ones. Trans women have a little bit harder in some ways, because it’s harder for them to hide it because they are, they do want to come out and be themselves all the time. The cross dresser, they have to worry about keeping it hidden. And when they’re who to tell when to come out, whether to let it out, but they can, the cross-dressers can keep it hidden, right?

Pretty heavily closeted for a longer time. And with more sanity, I think, than a truly trans person, who’s denying their entire identity by, by trying to supply, having to step into another role for my, this recreation.

Speaker 3 (25m 58s): Right? It’s like, so

Speaker 1 (26m 0s): Two guys who cross dress identifies gay, straight BI or all of the three,

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): Depends on how you ask them. I’ve not known any who identify as gay. I’m not saying there aren’t gay cross-dressers but I think their numbers are pretty limited except as drag Queens, maybe panties. Well, here’s why gay men are attracted to male energy, right? Not female energy. Okay. So if someone’s presenting with female energy, they’re not going to be as turned on. The majority of cross-dressers I’ve worked with and still work with are identify as exclusively straight or bisexual or situationally bisexual.

Most of them are married, but this is a place it’s for many of them, the, they are interested in cock when they’re dressed. Not all of them are some of it, just, some of them is like, no, I’m a lesbian. The man’s body have no interest in cock, or they might have a fantasy about being seductive. It’s more about the fantasy of being seductive and sexy and desired. And a lot of them stopped the fantasy, but some of them do go on to that. And they, and if they it’s almost like the cock or the man is a very elaborate prop in the fantasy, the real cock they’re attracted to it.

Well, I could go on the south as a white was cross and admires, want to find each other. And why, why men prefer to find cross-dressers to play with in a real woman? And I think, well, I’ll just touch on that now, actually, I think, because I’m going to say some very sexist things here, but only because I’m speaking from the cross-dressers exaggerated perspective. Okay. Okay. I mean, you have to be very, very careful. I’m talking my, my girls, they, they want to be, they cry.

They love being sexual. When they’re cross dressed, they love the feeling of being feminine. They are curious about what it’s like to have sex as a woman, which makes them better lovers. In my opinion, they want to know what it, what it’s like to be the receptive one. And oh, why? Oh, why men? Like, cross-dressers better than having an affair with a real woman because cross-dressers are trouble-free. If let’s say there’s a guy I’m talking for the admires.

Now let these, there’s a guy. And on your show, I know I can tell, speak very bluntly. Right? He, once novelty, he wants to blow jobs. He wants fun. He wants something like that. Maybe he’s been married for a very long time. And novelty is just, it. Many people do seek out novelty, right? Yeah. He’s attracted to women, mostly attracted to women, but women try to find a woman as a friend with benefits when you’re married with no complications and no emotional demands and nothing of the store without pay is really, really hard.

Right? You never know. And most of these guys, again, they have relationships that they don’t want to sacrifice for just, you know, a Saturday afternoon getting a blow job well across stressor or sissy, they they’re driven to please they’re given if assuming that the sissy that wants a man and a lot of them fantasize about it, as I said, they, they just want to please. They want to be, yeah. Or they want to, they want to feel desired. Maybe they want to feel used and roughed up. Maybe they want to feel that a lot of different things, but they can get it without having drama from a sissy.

And the sissy can get it from a top without them the drama, either. Not that a man’s going to go interrupt your marriage. Oddly, the top is tough. It was a lot more at risk. If he wants to step out, if he wants to step out and play a little bit, he’s at a lot lower risk with the cross stressor than a woman. There’s no emotional entanglement beyond often a very deep friendship. These relationships can last for a very long time. These playmate relationships, you find a steady person that you like to play with now. And then so some people go out golfing. Some people go down to the ACE hardware and hang out.

And some people get together and wear panties and suck cock. Right. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s easy. It’s free. It’s clean. And, and you know, if I was on, I can’t say, cause I have a different perspective, but I was on the woman’s perspective. If my man was going to cheat, it’s far less risky to have him cheating with a cross-dresser than with a real woman. Right. Just less risky on all kinds of, well, not, maybe not, you know, we’ll talk about, you know, STS and things like that.

But from an emotional standpoint, right, you don’t have it. And yeah. And that’s all they want. And so they go and they go deepen. And even the ones who don’t want to have cock in real life, for obvious reasons, they still have involving a strap-on or involving toys or toys they may play with, at home to experience life as a sexual sexuality, as a woman in the field and to feel desired. Right. Because usually men have the men have to be the one who are the ones who are chasing and be so, yeah, it’s a big turn on for them.


Speaker 1 (31m 9s): So is, is cross dressing sexual and how does cross-dressing plan to a person’s sexual life

Speaker 2 (31m 18s): Cross dressing for the majority that I work with, it’s sexualized to some degree, but not exclusively. So it often starts out as a sexual charge. Some of them start watching sissy porn. It’s a turn on. Some of them have already been crossed dressing, and it’s a turn on over time. It often morphs into that still part of their sexuality and what I like to play, but they then just like it. They just like the feeling of the clothing. They like being able to slip into the softer alternate reality.

And there are a certain number of trans women who begin their journey as cross dressing, which you can, and it’s cross dressing is not a gateway drug. Any more than milk is a gateway drug for heroin. In my opinion, it’s just where it’s just where it’s happens to start with everyone. And some people it catches onto in some, I think almost every little boy who’s tried in his mommy’s panties or girdles or clothes. Not

Speaker 1 (32m 14s): That I recall. Not that I recall, but I’ll take your word for it.

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): Well, okay. Maybe you don’t recall, but maybe, and maybe you never did. Who knows? But a lot of them just, they’re curious, right? They’re pre sexual. They’re a little curious little boys umami. Mommy’s wearing a girdle. Well, for some of them it sticks and I’m not a psychologist, so I can’t tell you why it sticks, but it’s with them for the rest of their lives and, and maybe it, so, yeah. So for some, it is very sexual. And I would say for the majority I work with, it does have a sexual component. Okay. Decrease change. Yeah. So how

Speaker 1 (32m 50s): To female partners generally react to finding out that their man crossed dresses

Speaker 2 (32m 58s): That runs the spectrum. It runs the spectrum there. And there are a surprising number of women, especially younger women. But I think even older ones, if they’re already connected with a guy they’re going to be okay, they’re going to get it. It might, they might reel a little bit, but they it’s. I actually wrote a blog post about it called nine reasons to covet across dressing partner because I was so, you know, they’re women often they freak out and understandably, if they’re a straight woman and they’re with a guy and they’re attracted to a male and suddenly the male says he likes to dress as a woman and flit around the living room.

Right. And gets turned on by this, it calls, she ends up being, calling into question her own sexuality. It’s a, it’s a blow, right. It’s like, okay, what do I do? Am I not women enough? Or is he gay? Does he really like me? Is he still the man that I love? And it makes them also question if they don’t run away from it and stand to confront to the little, what are the purposes of a relationship? Why do I love this person? What’s important to me in this relationship?

Who am I as a sexual being? Who am I, how do I identify gender? And I’m not saying that these women all should stay with a cross-dresser this, if she’s going to shame them or really have an issue with it. What I’m saying is that there is often a knee-jerk reaction that is put into us by society. A woman dressing as a man or wearing a strap on is perfectly fine. You’re a big football player, husband who loves to wear satin and garters, not in addition to probably looking really fine in them.

You know, it kind of shakes your world, but I think once they stop and think about these eight, if they do address it, it becomes a stronger relationship. But to answer your question in a more succinct way, in my experience, the majority that I’ve met or heard of through my clients, they find out they don’t really want to participate enthusiastically or at all, but they’ll accept it, but they don’t want to see it because it changes their vision of their partner.

And if they’re not. And so that seems to be more common. I’m just, don’t ask them. So

Speaker 1 (35m 19s): What are your favorite things about the work you do? Oh

Speaker 2 (35m 22s): My God. I like, I feel like I’m liberating them again. Even going back to that first story, there’s, there’s so much shame. These are for the most part, really great guys. They’re partners, they’re good business people or employees they’re good parents, or at least they impressed me. Is that very responsible, right? But they’re, they’re alone in this one way, this one corner of their life. And so, and there’s a lot of pain that goes along with that when I’m able to come along, show them that they’re beautiful.

Even if they think that they’re not show them, that this part of them is acceptable. Not only me, but a lot of other people out there can appreciate and admire that and let them exhibit it and in a safe way. That’s how I see I’m getting teared up. That’s fulfilling to me. Cross dressing is what I I’ve chosen at this point and where I career to work with, because I feel that strong affinity toward that towards liberating, that part of them, it could be, you know, but it could be other areas that are, I’m going off into my own personal thing, but, but right.

That’s what I really enjoy about it. And because they can be really pretty, it’s really fun to watch them lighten up. I love my favorite part. My very favorite part when I have the parlor is to dress someone up. Who’s never been dressed before, but maybe they’ve worn panties or they’ve dressed a little at home to bring them in. And I think every other mistress who does this will tell you the exact same thing. There’s a look. So my thing would, I would be, I would dress them up and put their makeup on with. They couldn’t see any mirrors in the house.

And when they were finally done, I would take them in front of a full length mirror and tell them to open their eyes. I get chills even thinking about them when they open their eyes and they see themselves, their alter ego in full fem state, their face becomes just filled with wonder after a couple of seconds, it’s almost as glorious feeling. If there’s anything I can feel this thing that they say about that’s fulfilling to me and they’re liberated from that moment.

They know that there’s part of them. Yeah. That, that, that is, that is beautiful and accepted and they can indulge. And yeah. So that’s my favorite part, liberating them and making them happier.

Speaker 3 (37m 41s): Nice to know how

Speaker 1 (37m 43s): Is circle of Q different from other cross-dresser and sissy sites?

Speaker 2 (37m 48s): There’s a lot of cross justice to see sides. Well, I think one of the defining characteristics is that we were developed as it is a dating site, but it’s a community and it was developed by two people who were really involved in it. That’s one reason. So Becca and I are involved, I look at all the profiles. We, we, we have online events and do things we’re trying to make a community of real people. Another thing is that we don’t use fake profiles. So one thing that Becca was a star, it explains something for Baca.

I, I was shocked to me when we started the first iteration of circle of Q. We started with a different platform. It was a pre-made dating cloud format.

Speaker 3 (38m 30s): Mmm Mmm.

Speaker 2 (38m 32s): I was going to start saying something bad about the dating platform and forgot, forgot what it was probably when I was probably four. I know it probably wasn’t going to say that, but we, my, my thoughts diverged off, it was what was the original question? It was, it was that we had to rebuild the site because the payroll didn’t work. Oh, that’s right. When we, oh, that’s right. When we started building it, we did this. And, and, and with the package of this platform, you can this dating platform, this wonderful dating platform, we’ve discovered that you can buy fake profiles

Speaker 3 (39m 5s): By the thousands and just

Speaker 2 (39m 7s): Load them into the site. So it looks like you were full. And because I was looking at all these other side effects, like where all these fucking gorgeous cross-dresser models they showed they’re full and nobody ever answers me back. Or I only get, I get fem bots or I get pro Dom’s or I get all kinds of crap. What, you know, and, and where’s my email address going. And suddenly my profile is showing up on this other network because of whatever. And, and, and it becomes right. And so that is in fact good. That explains it. So I said, so we both agreed without hesitation.

We weren’t going to do that. The difficulty is, is that if somebody comes to a pay site and they go, Ooh, you got 5,000 people and really, really, really fucking gorgeous. Cross-dressers, I’m joining you versus we have 300 people, but, you know, w but they’re all real right now. Fortunately, people are understanding that they’re going for real, and I don’t want to bash anybody’s business model. I really don’t want to draw any EIR that way, but that’s our business model that we decided to grow very slowly, slowly and organically with real people and giving attention to real people, rather than just trying to make it a sort of a corporate here, let’s get as many email addresses as we can.

And then, you know, we can do so that there’s a, there’s a genuine caring for the cross-dresser community that we have that I don’t think is exist on other sites. Right? Those are, those are probably the two major differences in, you know, our engagement and we have, our participants are engaged. Also. We have zoom, socials and fashion shows and ways for them to get acquainted.

Speaker 1 (40m 40s): Cool. Yeah. I think you’re going to find that the vast majority of dating sites use fake profiles. So, I mean, that’s

Speaker 3 (40m 50s): Just, that’s just part of it.

Speaker 2 (40m 53s): And we questioned whether we should, because people said, look, you have a quicker start. Everybody does, everybody does it, but we decided we’re not everybody. Right. And if it’s not that, you know, Bruce, we’re Becca. And I decided from it and it, and it’s been a labor of love. It’s been over a year because the first thing I, the disaster we had to kind of retool and it’s just back on me, we’re not technical. We’re just doing what we can do. Right. But we both believe really if you’re doing the right thing, following what our guts tell us is the right thing to do. We might make mistakes along the way.

Certainly everybody else. But if we come at this with the right heart that is going to do okay. And if it flops, it just means there’s not a place in the market for it. That’s all. Sure,

Speaker 1 (41m 33s): Sure. Well, I think that from a marketing standpoint, you need to make it very clear that your profiles or real. Yeah. I think you have to make that very clear even, and even if you have to say, unlike some competitors

Speaker 3 (41m 49s): To do it

Speaker 1 (41m 51s): As a marketing guy from way back,

Speaker 3 (41m 54s): I would advise you to do that

Speaker 1 (41m 56s): And you’ll find you’ll. Yeah. And you’ll find your response will be better. So as we talk about marketing, how are you marketing the site? Do you have an affiliate program

Speaker 2 (42m 9s): Program? So we would love to have anybody sign up. It’s 20% recurring. So that’s nice to people there. So we have an affiliate program. We haven’t really done a really good job of marketing the affiliate program, because until recently we had, we had the doors open for a bit. The, we do have, we do have Twitter and Instagram and BDSM all, or we’re doing some of the social media. We haven’t done a lot with it, but getting there.

And it’s been word of mouth a little bit on FetLife, we’ve done some podcasts which has brought, what’s bringing some good things and helped me talk to some really interesting people like you and get good out of marketing advice, for example. But that’s it. So again, the marketing’s kind of organic word. We’ve recently put out a call because I don’t have time to write a lot of blog posts, but we want good content. We really put out a call for guest contributors to contribute to our blog on cross-dressing experience. Sorts of articles.

I’m know I’m forgetting something else, the events marketing, but that’s pretty much it for the TV. Awesome. What’s your

Speaker 1 (43m 18s): Vision for circle of Q longterm.

Speaker 2 (43m 22s): I’d like it to continue growing with the same feel it has now, at least a people, a feeling of community and people supporting each other. I’d like to get more into local events as well. Not so much sponsoring it. We’ve already got the blue bells in south Florida, which has sort of part associated group, I guess. But I’d like to, as we grow, I’d like to see more live events where people have local meetups, you know, in, in there might be a member who sends a call out and says, Hey, does anybody want to meet? In fact, we have forums for that purpose.

So if somebody wants to have an event or say, Hey, I’m meeting at such and such bar, does anybody want to show up with me? It’s okay to be dressed. They can do that. So I’d like to see more of that sort of opportunity and just to continue growing worldwide. We have members already from God. We got them from the UK, from Australia, from Al South Africa, from Bosnia, from Ireland, from Denmark all over the United States, worried about, so I guess 300 or something at this point. And by the time this airs, I don’t know, we’ll see how many, but, but that’s, my vision is to continue keeping the soul that we have and to being a community and support for regardless of where they are in their journey of their interest.

Speaker 1 (44m 35s): Well, Ava, thank you for being our guest today. Anna don’t sign broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 43s): It’s been fun. I hope so too.

Speaker 1 (44m 44s): It’s a pleasure. My broker tip today is part three of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you leave the reach, the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site. They send you, the broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years. That’s up to date. If it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, get a username and password for the site so that you can review the content, ask how often the content is updated.

Get some history on the site, how long it’s been in business, the story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content and how much of it has current technologies like 4k, find out if all of the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller. If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the contents on find out how much the content costs to produce and what the current cost of production is.

Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the owner, do they do the shooting themselves or do they hire someone to do it? And if there’s an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what’s the retention rate of the site and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic ask for Google analytics access. So you can see where the traffic comes from.

This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. Then it’s. Then if everything looks good to you and you want the site, it’s time to make an offer. Only you can decide what the site is worth to you. If you’re working with a broker such as, oh, I don’t know, maybe adult site broker, of course your broker can help you determine the value of the site. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Raja of Chargeback Help.

Speaker 0 (46m 58s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Ava Durga. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with

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The surfers on the site will be hard-pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time, Brazzers bang bros, and just about every other top adult network site. They’ve been growing their email list since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000. In the past six months, their unsubscribe rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 seams. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well.

This has boosted their ability to grow their email list and get return visitors. You can buy this outstanding discount and review platform for only $956,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker tuck is J co PETA partner at Y not group a K a L a J J. Thanks for being with us again here on adult side broker.

Speaker 2 (3m 13s): Hey, thanks a ton for having me, Bruce. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (3m 16s): Always great having you. Now, why not has been around since 1996, hard to believe at that time, their goal was to provide early online developers of adult websites with a central hub where they could network and promote ethical business practices. And what was then a largely lawless internet? The company has changed ownership several times since its early days eventually moving its core presence to the domain. Why not.com and branching out with additional services for businesses today?

The company, why not group offers a variety of B2B services for adult companies? Why not also operates the blog? Why not Europe, which focuses on adult business news coming out of the EU. Now in early 2016, the company added why not shoot me a photo photo, journalism site and collaboration with veteran adult industry photographer, Buster brown recently, why not added? Why not cam an online magazine that offers tips and advice to cam models. In addition to its well-read blogs and resource sites.

When at group also operates popular industry events and collaboration with the biggest industry business conferences, why not grand Prix takes place at multiple trade shows throughout the year when there are trade shows and lets participants compete against each other and exciting and fun go-kart races. Plus the well attended wine out awards formal event takes place each year in Prague in collaboration with the T E S affiliate summit. The why not awards offers the adult industry and opportunity to recognize the biggest achievers in the adult online sector.

Now went out, also owns and operates. Why not mail a hosted email marketing and delivery platform that provides companies with a powerful platform for driving email marketing success recently, why not added the why not cam awards and why not community in Hollywood? Not to mention why not marketplace. I’m just tired saying all that before, before we went on, Jay and I were talking to you, I was like, God, I’m so busy with so many things. Yeah, I get it, man. I get it now, now.

Well, how’s it going, Jay? How’s it’s been a while.

Speaker 2 (5m 29s): It has, but I got to say that was pretty freaking awesome. The way you just like nailed like everything. And I’m like sitting here going, oh, he’s doing better than I would have done. I mean, you know, obviously you did some research and you probably collected, you know, writings that we have in descriptions here and there and everything, but the way you did it and everything it was, you know, it was pretty damn impressive. The only thing that’s really changed is the one at grand Prix. You know, we haven’t done that since 2019, obviously due to the pandemic and everything, but I think I’m going to get rid of that and do something different starting next year.

Yeah. I’m not sure what th the cart racing lads did for 10 years, which, you know, it was pretty amazing. We did probably shit. I don’t know, four on the average per year for events. So I probably did like 40 wine at grand Prixs so yeah, probably time to do something different, but yeah, all up. I’m good. You know, I’m all over the place I’m working, you know, ridiculous hours. I’ve also got a podcast going now called seat of your pants, where we’re interviewing models. And it’s just, you know, we just got to stay ahead of the curve. I mean, we’re doing as much as we can try and, you know, keep our relevance growing and you know, it’s working.

So there you go. Right

Speaker 1 (6m 38s): Now, we got some events coming up. Tell us about the wine out awards and Prague. I’m going to assume since it’s a live show that you’re doing this in person this year,

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): Correct? Yeah. We’re going to push through it. I mean, here’s the thing, you know, we, we did the wine out awards online last year and it was, it was quite successful for doing an online show. I’ve been doing it for 10 years now, every year in Prague at the European summit, also known as the TES affiliate conferences. It, it awards the business sector of the industry, cam networks and affiliate programs, hosting billing, you know, everything you can think of as far as like businesses are concerned.

And, you know, we’ve, we also award, you know, a few more companies that are part of the cam sector. We do some personal awards, like businessman of the year business, woman of the year Basadur cam model celebrity, stuff like that. We just tailored as good as we can for the crowd that typically attends the European summit. It’s changed and morphed a little bit over the years. Yeah. You know, we, we, we try to remain true to our roots and everything, and you know, not to be confused with the why not cam awards that goes on in Hollywood where we only award performers with the wine out awards in Prague.

You know, I’m not sure when this episode will air, but yes, we’re, we’re doing it in person. We’re being as safe as we possibly can. And, you know, I’m getting a lot of support and we’ve got a dozen sponsors on board this year and you know, I’ve already totaled up probably. I mean, I don’t know how many seats, VIP seats and tables I’ve got going on, but you know, I’m expecting that it’s going to be smaller. And that’s just the nature of the beast for right now. But I booked my flight. I booked my room. I’ve got everything. I mean, I’m ready to go.

I just, haven’t finished putting the show together, but it’s on. I

Speaker 1 (8m 30s): Wish I could join. I wish I could join you in Prague this year. But as I told you, I just finished a 15 day co we’re recording this in mid August. I just completed a 15 day quarantine hotel quarantine here in Thailand and yeah. Once was enough. Thanks. So if it wasn’t for that, you know, I’d be in Prague. That’s my favorite show. Well, sure.

Speaker 2 (8m 55s): Well, let ask you this, like after how many days were you starting to lose your mind? The first?

Speaker 3 (9m 1s): Oh,

Speaker 1 (9m 3s): Well, when you look, when you look down below and I shit, you not, there is barbed wire in the garden below. I’m sure that was courtesy of the Thai government. And what was really funny about the barbed wire was I was looking at the path of it and you could literally have walked through it and around

Speaker 2 (9m 23s): It. Well, why didn’t you?

Speaker 1 (9m 25s): Well, it’s a, it was a drop to the garden and oh, no, no, no, no. You don’t want to fuck with that here. And then you ended up in real jail, which I’ve heard about Thai jails. I don’t want to experience

Speaker 2 (9m 39s): One. Yeah. I’m trying to think. What was it, a movie that I saw, but it wasn’t a Thai prison. It was, I think it was a Turkish prison. Midnight express. Ah,

Speaker 1 (9m 51s): No, no. I don’t think, I, I don’t think I want to find out to be honest with you. I, I think I’m just going to say yes, sir. No, sir. And yeah, that’s probably the way. So anyway, I think after October they’re going to relax it. Cause they w they want to have some kind of a high season there, but the only thing that’s high right now are the COVID cases and deaths. Unfortunately, yesterday they had three times as many deaths as the first year.

So needless,

Speaker 2 (10m 24s): Well, yeah, but,

Speaker 1 (10m 25s): But, but here’s the difference. Okay. In America, everyone can get vaccinated and they don’t in Thailand. They don’t have enough vaccines.

Speaker 2 (10m 34s): Right, right. That’s too bad.

Speaker 1 (10m 36s): It really is. And everyone wants to get vaccinated. So we won’t, we won’t, we won’t get, we won’t get into that anyway. So I know the one out of wards is matured from its beginnings, obviously a lot. How long have you been doing that

Speaker 2 (10m 51s): Now? First year was 2011 and yeah. So how’s it changed? How’s it changed? Well, it’s grown considerably the categories. We’ve done a lot more categories over the years. I think the first year we did, like, I dunno, 20 categories this year, there’s nearly 40, but we don’t do trophies for all the categories. The format of how I do the show is a lot more, I dunno, it’s a lot more involving, we’ve got really a formula on how we do it.

That makes it work. And, you know, people just go and they know that they’re going to have a good time. They’re going to have dinner. They’re going to have drinks. And it’s, you know, it’s a thing. So it’s like, even if you’re not really in the show or nominated for anything, it’s a really a great opportunity to go and hang out with, you know, a lot of high profile companies, as well as, you know, a lot of decision makers and just, you know, to see others and be seen. It’s a great night. It sounds, it

Speaker 1 (11m 47s): Sounds really good. Plus we get to hear Jay tell jokes.

Speaker 2 (11m 50s): Yes. I’m actually going to be doing some standup on the stage this year because, you know, fuck it. I want to, well, good. Hey,

Speaker 1 (11m 57s): It’s your show. You could do what you want. Right.

Speaker 2 (12m 3s): Well, I mean, you know, people at paying be there, so I want to make sure that they, you know, get it, I’ll try some stuff. I mean, I usually do a few jokes here and there anyway. Yeah. And I mean, if things start to work, then I’ll go on with it. If not, then I’ll just, you know, shift gears and do something else which is, you know, stuffing up something I’m used to doing on stage, you know, getting a good read of the audience and what’s working and what isn’t and then shifting as necessary.

Speaker 1 (12m 27s): How does your, your background as a, as an actor help with that? Well,

Speaker 2 (12m 33s): You know what I mean? I obviously have absolutely no problem performing and being in front of people, you know, I’d say one thing that it definitely did because I don’t really incorporate a lot of my acting and my personal, I mean, it’s, it’s my personality more than anything. The fact that I got rejected so many freaking times as an actor between the ages of like, I don’t know, late teens up until I was, you know, probably about 30 almost. And then I just got into this industry and now I still do auditions here and there, but, you know, just being rejected so many times and just seeing so much of a, you know, because I knew a lot of friends that either did stand up or did ensemble comedy, or, you know, have made it and gone on to do TV shows and movies and stuff.

So just living and experiencing it’s really kind of taught me a lot on how to, how to play an audience and how to read it. And you know, it doesn’t hurt that I’m pretty well known. So, you know, I’ve got that going for me. Well, sure,

Speaker 1 (13m 31s): Sure. Especially in this industry, are you doing any acting these days?

Speaker 2 (13m 37s): Nah, I haven’t really done anything. My agent sends me audition notices every now and then. And I mean, a lot of it has to just, you have to record it. And I don’t really like doing that. I’m much better off if I actually get in front of a person physically, that gives me such an advantage over a lot of my, of a lot of my competitors, which, you know, definitely hurts when you’re unable to do that. So, you know, a lot of stuff they send me, it’s like, you know, they need someone ages 30 to 60 open ethnicity.

I mean, it’s really cattle call type stuff. And unless it’s like something, because like, you know, I’ve kind of, I wouldn’t say let myself go, but I mean, like my hair’s longer and we’ll talk about that. I just, unless it’s something where it’s like specifically needed some due to, you know, is like 45 years old and you know, is ragged and it’s something, I don’t know if it’s something that really fits my description, then I’ll pay attention to it, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14m 34s): Since you mentioned that, for those of, although those of us who follow you on Facebook, what the hell is going on with your hair?

Speaker 2 (14m 47s): Basically what happened was in early 20, 20 after I got back from, you know, there was supposed to be the Lowel expo, Columbia, you know, AIG was going to do another show in Vegas, like the first week of April. Right. And so when I got back from Columbia mid to late February, 2020, you know, it was like, okay, that’s going to be my next show since Phoenix form, wasn’t going to happen. And it usually would like a few weeks later, you know, and then there was the European summit in Lisbon, but getting from Austin to Lisbon is like a major pain in the ass, in the dead of winter.

So it’s like, I’m not going to do that. So I was just planning on going and getting my hair cut and getting ready to go to Vegas in a month and a half and then COVID hit. And then, you know, it’s like, we were pretty much led to leave. You know, don’t leave your house, don’t do this, don’t do that. I mean, I took it pretty seriously right from the start. So I ended up not getting my hair cut. And then, I mean, you know, it’s like a few months passed by and then a few more months. And I mean, I literally the whole summer of 2020 into the fall, I didn’t really, I didn’t leave.

I didn’t do shit for like almost nine months probably. Yeah. And during that time, my hair grew and I was very customed to just being antisocial and you know, I was bummed out so much of the time. And then, you know, Biden got elected. Thank God. I was like, yeah, it’s like, things started turning around a little bit. But at that point it was like, you know what? I’m in my fifties, I still have most of my hair. Fucking let’s just keep going. So here we are like nine months later than that. And I mean, other than getting things evened out a few months ago, I haven’t had like a legit haircut now in a year and a half.

Was it down to your knees now? No,

Speaker 3 (16m 26s): But it is. Let’s see.

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): I mean, it’s not, it’s below my collar for sure. And in the front, you know, if I lean forward a little bit, I can touch my, I could touch my nipples with the tips of my hair. Ooh. Very good. Fair.

Speaker 1 (16m 43s): So now let’s talk back to business. Let’s talk about the, why not camel wards in the Hollywood last year. I believe it was a virtual show actually.

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): No, we skipped it last year completely.

Speaker 1 (16m 57s): Okay. Okay. Yeah, that was the year. It was year bef a year. It was a year before year before it was a live show.

Speaker 2 (17m 5s): Yeah. What we did was we launched why not cam awards in 2018 just by itself. Right. We wanted to do it earlier in the year. We were considering a different city and the way circumstances, the way they were and we needed to get it done during the calendar year 2018, we ended up doing the why not cam wards by itself, on her own in Hollywood, in October, we wanted it earlier in the year. So we pushed a few months earlier for 2019 and ended up having an August in LA. But we also, you know, decided let’s also add a trade show to it because it, a lot of people just, they can’t have the luxury of just taking a day and going to LA and doing this.

I mean, unless they have other business there, it’s difficult. So we added a two and a half, three day trade show called, why not cam unity did that in August two, you know, great for a first-year trade show, then, you know, we’re going to push it forward a few months earlier for 2020. And then of course all this shit happened. And instead we launched the wine at summit, which is an online trade show for everybody in the industry doing that. We did that two July’s in a row, but with the wider cam awards, you just can’t duplicate because I mean, it’s the gold standard.

It’s the Oscars night for cam and clips, performers. You can’t duplicate the red carpet. You can’t duplicate the dinner, the entertainment, the drinks. I mean, it’s a whole experience. And we just decided, you know what, it’s just, it’s not fair to everyone. If we were to do this virtually this year. So we took a year off and focused on why not summit and other and including specialty windup mail, because that grew big in 2020. So now we wanted to do what live. We’re going to do it in LA.

We’re going to be pretty strict on how we handle, you know, who can attend. And it’s just the way it is. I mean, that’s, we got to do what we got to push forward.

Speaker 1 (18m 50s): How are you going to be strict on who can attend? Are, are they going to have to be vaccinated tested and all that?

Speaker 2 (18m 58s): Yeah, they’re going to need to be vaccinated and they needed going to need to show us proof. We’ve got this documented on our page for badges. We’ve got this documented in a lot of different places. Obviously we’re going to be driving this point home numerous times over the next several weeks, because the last thing we want to do is have someone show up and then not be able to get in. And I mean, as info it’s well-documented that LA county is starting to impose these kinds of regulations on businesses saying that, you know, okay, it’s required that you need to be vaccinated, you know, and this is going on in LA county.

I believe it’s going on in places in New York, like restaurants and gyms, you need a vaccination and proof. And then LA county is leading in that direction. So, you know, we’re getting in front of it and saying, Hey, okay. You know, we see the writing on the wall. And the last thing we want to do is put any of the people that want to be at our show and legitimately, you know, care about themselves and others and jeopardize them. So that’s how it’s going to have to be great.

Speaker 1 (19m 55s): Great. Well, you know what, you’re responsible. And I think in this day and age, it’s important to be a responsible that’s unless you live in Florida. Okay. So you also, you mentioned why not cam unity in Hollywood? Yeah. Now talk about that show and how are preparations

Speaker 2 (20m 17s): Going? It’s good. I mean, we’ve, you know, we were already well underway for the winery, camel awards, as far as like suggestions for the nominations, the nominations, and in the process, you know, we’ve, we’ve locked down the w Hollywood, we’ve got a portion of rooms that we have at a discount rate. We’re taking over a portion of the hotel. I’m still looking for sponsors, but we do have several onboard already. You know, in fact, I would actually like to give a quick shout out to my sponsors, at least for boats events and for the wine camel wards, at least we’ve got chatter bait.

I want clips live Jasmine and branded scan as our four main platinum sponsors. They’ve all been on board. They’re very extremely supportive. Obviously without them, we wouldn’t be able to do this show, right? So it’s critical that we have their support and with, with why not camp munity, we’ve got chatter bait on as our presenting sponsor, which they also did a couple of years ago. And then as far as our platinum sponsors, we’ve got, I want clips, stripped chat and nasty, which is a crypto.

So the way we’re doing this for one community is we’re having like kind of a opening night on October 11th. And then we’ve got a full day of seminars and networking and opportunities primarily for performers, whether they’re just getting started or whether they’ve been around several years for cams and clips. Obviously we’re gonna have porn stars there too. And any kind of entity that does business with cam networks and clips platforms. We highly encourage them to go sure, executives, Philly it’s anyone that would have any cause to do business with the cams and clips industries, and want to reach out to numerous models.

So all day the 12th and all day, the 13th of October, our full day trade show days, we’ll probably do something small in the morning and the 14th, but then obviously everybody needs time to get ready for the Campbell where it’s going on that evening with the red carpet starting around five or five 30.

Speaker 1 (22m 22s): Awesome. Awesome. Now, talk, talk about the format of that show. You guys really do that

Speaker 2 (22m 29s): A big the wine boards. Yes. Yes. So, you know, we’re going to be live streaming at worldwide. I’m in the process of working with a crew, which we did in 2019 and 2018. You know, we like to try to get things moving so that no one’s really waiting long in the wings to get on the red carpet. We’ve got probably I’m going to get about a dozen different models who are going to be red carpet interviewers. We’ll have a camera and a boom guy on the front of the carpet, as well as the back of the carpet.

And I’m going to have an inside host walking around and talking, and it’s going to be run like a TV show, just back and forth to one to the next, to the next, with whoever’s ready and queued up. So this goes on from about five or 5:30 PM till about seven, 7:30 PM. This is, you know, really nicely coordinated. It’s a lot of fun. It’s going on vine street, which just north of Hollywood Boulevard, very famous area in Hollywood, right next to Capitol records. Then what we’re doing at, I think starting at around seven, seven o’clock even dinner service is going to be starting inside.

So the earliest people from the red carpet will be able to start enjoying that. There’ll be an open bar. There will also be general admission seating upstairs in the balcony. These are very low priced. And that means that anybody who doesn’t get in for a VIP seat or is nominated, but just in the, in the industry and wants to watch the show, we’ve got tickets very low price. And in some cases you can bring a friend for free. All this is explained on awards dot, why not cam.com. And you know, I’m not sure about capacity as far as how many models and how many executives could be in the venue at a time, but we’re, we’re looking to be able to fit a few hundred.

So we’ve got some entertainers I’m nailing down, you know, some standup comics that are going to be doing this, you know, last year or not last year, the year before we had Brad, oh God, what’s his last name? Dammit. We had Kate Quigley and Brad and I cannot remember his last name. This happens when you get older, you forget people’s names. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. Who are you? And then we do the orange show, which clocks in at about a hundred minutes, which is long enough to keep everyone’s attention.

But you know, not long enough for people to want more. And then the after party starts right after right there in the venue upstairs.

Speaker 1 (24m 55s): That sounds amazing. I mean, that really, that really see, you guys have put a lot of work into this.

Speaker 2 (24m 60s): Yep. It’s a, it’s a great time and yeah, it’s just, it’s well-orchestrated, we’ve got it down. We were really building momentum and then 2020 happened, unfortunately,

Speaker 1 (25m 10s): So many people were building momentum on so many things in 2020 happened and then 2021 happened, but we won’t go there. Okay. So speaking of 20, 21, you live in Texas and I just mentioned Florida. How has the pandemic been in your neck of the woods?

Speaker 2 (25m 32s): You know, I have a few friends in the industry here. I have a few friends who are a few more friends. We’re not in the industry here. We’re all being as safe as we possibly can. Over the last few weeks with a spike of Delta, even though I’m am vaccinated, I’ve been neglecting to go to the gym just because I’m a little freaked out on things. And you know, I’ve been reading that there’s breakthrough cases and I really don’t want that. My kid goes to high school. His school starts in a few days. I’m really worried about him. He isn’t worried in the least, but he’s a smart kid and he’s, you know, going to be very careful.

You know what they’re saying? I mean, hospitals are overflowing. It’s been ridiculous, but I mean, I’m out in suburbia. I don’t really see any of this stuff. I am a little bit of a hermit when I’m here and I’ve really learned how to be a hermit over the last year and a half. So yeah, I just don’t see a lot of this going on, but I mean, you know, I read the news, I looked at statistics and I see what’s going on. And yeah, I mean, it’s pretty much a shit show of epic proportions, depending on, you know, how much of it you want to believe

Speaker 1 (26m 35s): And where you are. And it’s a real shit show right now in Thailand. Man. Let me tell you, so talk a little bit about why not male. I I’ve certainly used it myself. How can that benefit people in the end?

Speaker 2 (26m 54s): So why not? Mail is an awesome platform for anyone to use where they have their own generated email list. If you have a great email list and you know, something that you want to sell to these people and it’s adult in nature and not adult, I mean, we accept a lot of adult non adult accounts, but if you have something that’s adult in nature, you know, chances are much more than likely the platform that you’re using has it somewhere in their terms of services that you are not allowed to do anything explicit. Sometimes it’s a little bit more vague than that, but at the end of the day, I can’t tell you how many people have lost their email accounts or they’ve lost their email marketing accounts using a mail service that lumps them in with trafficking, you know, pharmaceuticals and illegal activities and pyramid schemes and all that shit.

It’s just like, you know what, to save a few bucks. Why on earth would you even want to work with a company that shows that holds you in such low regard? Right? We’ve, we’ve had wine at mail now for like 11, 12 years. And you know, at the end of the day, we help you as much as you want as little as you want. And it’s so much more than just an email software platform. I mean, there’s, you know, we’ve got great help. Richard has been, you know, managing accounts for us for the duration and you know, we’re in the industry. The why not name has been around for 25, almost 26 years. Now we go to shows, we want to see you succeed.

We’re here to help. And, you know, I mean, there’s a few things and a few verticals that we won’t work with that, you know, are either because they’re illegal federally in the United States. So, but at the end of the day, there’s a lot of networks. There’s a lot of solo site owners, individual proprietors companies, cam networks, traffic networks that are sending out insane amounts of emails through our platform and getting inbox and making much more than their money back.

So that’s what we’re here to do. We’re help. We’re here to help you email market and, you know, build your brand and make money.

Speaker 1 (28m 51s): Yeah. You mentioned Richard. He certainly goes beyond the call of duty if you need help, especially when you’re a tech dummy like me. So like me, you have quite a podcasting and radio background. Of course your performance background goes even further, but you, and you mentioned this earlier, your current project is seat of your pants. You tell me what that’s all about, get into some

Speaker 2 (29m 17s): Detail about it. Well, you know, Connor comes up with a lot of great ideas and you know, when he does, it’s a great idea. I mean, I constantly shoot down a lot of his ideas as well, but I mean, he’s always got something cooking up and just, you know, a while ago he’s like, you know what, we should do podcasts. And I’m like, God, are people really doing those still? You know, I mean, you know, especially like a clubhouse and everybody with their short attention spans and being able to grab a minute here and there, you know, but I’ve been wanting to do a podcast for awhile. I did the why not, Humpday launch back from 2001 to 2006, you know, before it was even called podcasts.

It was like an online radio show. Right. So I was doing that every Wednesday for five years. And then I took a many year hiatus and then I did porn and coffee with Thomas <inaudible>. And we did that from like, I dunno, it was like end of 2015. I think we did that all of 2016 and 2017, you know, it’s tough to keep up. And we, we knocked out like a good 50 episodes at least. And you know, over the last year or so, I would want him to put something together. I saw Connor put together, sell porn or die trying, which focuses on affiliate marketing and speaks to some serious business execs and movers and Jakers.

And I’m like, well, you know what? I liked that I liked that he’s doing that. I should do something. Let me just, you know, do something that’s completely different than everything that he’s doing. So like, you know what I’m known by, you know, lots of performers in the industry and I’m good friends with several of them who would be a great co-host with me on the show, mistress, Kai, who I love dearly. I figured, you know what? I think she’d be down to do something like this. W we’re very different people in so many ways, but in other ways we’re very similar.

So I’m just like, you know what, let me just put this together. And like, with a lot of things, I’m just kind of flying by the seat of my pants. And the whole point of this was, you know, what, we just want to be, have people be a fly on the wall, let’s interview performers who are, you know, have a good following and are well-known and tend to be either friends with Kai or myself and just do a half an hour phone conversation, no plans, nothing in place. It’s like, okay. You know, people are listening in on a phone call and this could go anywhere.

And that’s, you know, it’s still evolving. We’ve only done like six episodes.

Speaker 1 (31m 33s): Cool, cool. Now, as you mentioned, we’ve all pretty much stayed home the last year and a half. What are your travel plans for the balance of this year and next year? That’s

Speaker 2 (31m 46s): A good question. As far as, as far as this year is concerned. I mean, honestly, dude, I usually go to like 10 plus shows a year. I mean, I like to go to a few of the exotica because I like to do the AVN internets. I mean, I was doing Phoenix formatted existed. I did do at least the European summit in Prague. I haven’t been Amsterdam for a few years, but I like doing that. Of course, we’ve got our own events, you know, with the wine at GAM unity and the wine at camel wards. So the way I’m looking at it now what’s feasible.

I mean, Jude, I was supposed to do like four events in September, but I think it’s down to one now. So I’m thinking in September balmy and I know I am, unless something really shitty happens. I plan on go into Prague for like six days. I’m going to go there. I’m going to do the European summit. And I’m just, you know, tacking on like an extra day or two in front of it. So I can get acclimated because I haven’t put my body through the, of traveling internationally and doing a show and the time zone change and everything, you know, in two years,

Speaker 1 (32m 47s): Tell me about time zone changes. I just came back from the state. So,

Speaker 2 (32m 50s): Yeah. Right. So yeah, I mean, it’s like the last time I did, this was September, 2019 and I’m used to going overseas two or three times a year, every year. So, you know, not getting any younger and it’s just like, so I’m doing that in September, October, I’m doing why not cam awards and why not community? And I’ll be in LA for like a full week in the middle of October, then a week or so after that, I’m going to go to the exotica expo in New Jersey. And I’m going to do that for like four days or so.

We’ve got a double booth there. We’re going to have lots of models, you know, Jay and Dan, the owners of exotica, from what I understand their show in Chicago a month ago, kicked ass great turnout. And that we’re very safe and very smart and how they were dealing with attendees. Cause it’s a fan show. So, you know, that’s, it’s tricky because you know, you’re dealing with hundreds, you know, you’re dealing with thousands of people there, you know, you don’t know what’s going on. So they led the way they did a great thing. And so I’m doing that in New Jersey in late October, and then I’m going to go to their other show in December in DC.

It’s like the first few days of December, it’s a brand new city. I’ve never been to DC before. So I’m gone.

Speaker 1 (34m 3s): Yeah. Sounds good. Sounds good. Crazy DC in December sounds cold. You’re you mentioned, you mentioned exotica. What, what’s the full, what’s the extent of your involvement with that

Speaker 2 (34m 21s): We’re sponsors and you know, I mean, they’re doing Miami in September, but you know, it’s too close to Prague for me and I know I’m gonna need some days off and with the way DeSantis is running that state and all this shit, I just, you know, I just, I, I, I can’t. So

Speaker 1 (34m 38s): You don’t want to patronize Florida. I don’t blame you, man.

Speaker 2 (34m 41s): Yeah. I mean, considering the fact that we’ve got huge, huge events going on in LA three weeks later, I just don’t want to tempt fate. I don’t want to fuck around. So, you know, so yeah. We’re sponsors of exotica and you know, I have a double blue spot, so it’s like a 20 by 10. And I usually get about a dozen models to sign at my booth. And the point of me going there is, you know, it’s just, it’s a big branding thing. I want all the models and all the attendees of the show to see why not, because we do have some consumer news and a lot of the models, obviously when they’re trying to get nominated and voted for, for one, our cam awards, fan voting is huge for that.

I want these people to be tuning into our live stream. So I’ll be, you know, even though we’ll just finish with the wine, our cameras and why not community a week earlier, you know, I want people to get used to knowing our name and seeing our brand and you know, preparing for next year. I didn’t

Speaker 1 (35m 33s): Know. I didn’t know you were doing consumer stuff.

Speaker 2 (35m 36s): We’re doing a little bit of consumer. I mean, obviously we want fans to take note of us because you know, we’ve got so many models that are, that are working with us in one way, shape or form. The other thing obviously is, you know, I like to go booth to booth and meet all the owners of all the different products and businesses there. I mean, there’s novelties, there’s strip clubs, there’s lifestyle, there’s other cam networks. And usually I meet several dozen models for the first time going there and see several dozen friends. You know, it’s just, it’s a great opportunity for me to nurture relationships and build new ones.

And I always do. I was

Speaker 1 (36m 10s): Just telling somebody a couple days ago that I should probably go to an exotica, even though it’s not really in line with what we do, there could be some benefits,

Speaker 2 (36m 23s): You know, it’s, it’s a fun time. And, you know, I mean, I guess it just depends on what your goals are and everything. I mean, even if you’re just there to just like find new products and just, you know, see some interesting things. Cause I mean, they got a stage show going on. They’ve got like a BDSM dungeon going on. It’s interesting. Yeah. I I’m there, you know, specifically to just get my brand noticed and bring more models into the why not fold, so to speak.

Speaker 1 (36m 50s): Right. And to see the BDSM show. Okay. So you live in Austin, there’s a lot going on there. Are you involved in local industry? Yeah, actually

Speaker 2 (37m 4s): I am. It’s been a couple of years and I’m not getting involved this year, unfortunately, but there’s the Texas for less Fest, you know, which has been going on for many years. Lynn Raritan who owns the forbidden fruit, novelty and lingerie store in north Austin. She’s I believe the first female owned adult business in Austin since like the eighties wonderful person she’s been working in the Texas burlesque Fest for years. And usually I have some sort of involvement with it, but not this year, unfortunately.

And then also the Texas foot parties. There’s a fetish foot party that goes on run by this fantastic lady named Phoenix. Stacey. I met her just recently and met her in soul scream. Who’s her videographer and significant other. And they produce these events, I guess they switch back and forth between Austin and Dallas and that’s going on, you know, I think this episode will have aired already by the time that happens, but yeah, you know, I’m, I’m helping them promote it.

I’m going to be there. You know, I just want to get much more involved, especially like in the fetish and BDSM communities, because they’re so huge and there’s so much crossover with what we do that this is just, it’s a fun thing and it’s local and I always want to be a participant and stuff like that. Sure.

Speaker 1 (38m 29s): Now, Jay, you are obviously a pretty active guy. You talked about how much do you normally travel and you do a lot locally. How have you been able to keep saying the last 18 months?

Speaker 2 (38m 44s): Well, I gotta tell ya, you know, the first few months were extremely difficult. Like literally, you know, when we were all hit with the news in March of 2020 that, you know, this is going to go on for awhile, there’s going to be deaths. I mean, just when we were trying to digest the news and we were all really more stunned than anything and you know, the more I dug in, the more people I talked to and, you know, just, I could see really early on things were being politicized already with it, but my attitude was, you know what, I’d rather just be safe than sorry, because people are fricking dying already.

And pretty much April and may of 2020. I just, I was just in a dark place, man. It was difficult. And you know, then we figured it out and we were able to do things and, you know, just diving into my work and just being busy all the time. I mean, for a period of months, I would go out every day and I would walk, jog two to four miles and it was just like, I would do whatever I possibly could to take my mind off things. So, you know, I, I would say I still, from time to time go to some pretty dark places, I, I don’t make it really public, you know?

I mean, I’ll be a little bummed, I’ll go on Twitter and I’ll, you know, tweet some, you know, sympathy, tweets and shit, you know, but at the end of the day, I just, I dunno, I kind of keep a lot of this shit to myself and figure out ways on how to deal with it and, you know, work and having some good success over the last year and a half or so, and not losing my ass was really what kept me sane more than anything else. But that’s awesome all up though. It really hasn’t been the happiest of times for me though, even though we’ve had a lot of good things, right,

Speaker 1 (40m 32s): Right. It hasn’t been the happiest of times for the entire world. Let’s face it. So I’ve always says, you know, I’ve always considered you the best sales person in our industry. Well, you’re welcome again. Now share some tips of what to do and what not to do when trying to sell someone.

Speaker 2 (40m 54s): Well, one thing that people should never do is go in hot and heavy. I mean, it’s, you just met someone for the first time. Talk to them, get to know them, let them know who you are, what you do, find out what they are and what they do. I mean, I get a number of affiliates who don’t know a fucking thing about me and they’ll send me these emails or they’ll, they’ll send me something through Instagram or worse. They’ll send it through me for like a WhatsApp group. And it’s just like, clearly they’ve done zero research. Sometimes language is a barrier and I get it.

But I just see so many reps that just really, they don’t have a clue what the hell they’re doing. I wonder how they’re even able to keep jobs at their business. If this is what they’re doing to people, I don’t know. So, you know, know who you’re going after. Don’t only hit someone up every time when you were looking for something, you know, just things to do. It’s like, it’s just, it’s such a cumulative thing. It’s a long game. There’s people that I’ve known in the industry for the 21 years that I’ve been in here.

Right? Some of them I’ve never even really tried to sell to, but you know, I maintain relations with, and you know, I know that at some point, and actually recently I won’t mention the name of the company I wasn’t getting where I wanted to get. And so I’m like, you know what? I know the owner, I’ve known this person a long time, screw it. I’m just going to call them. And that’s what I did. And I made a sale. I made a good sale. Right. So, you know, it just, you gotta know when to push, when to hold back, know something about who you’re going after.

And you know, it also helps to know what some of their, their, their trigger points are. You know what I mean? Is this someone who likes to save money? Is this someone who likes to go big? Is this someone who, you know, needs recognition? It just, every single case is different. And one thing that people should always do as well, and this is something I learned as a telemarketer back in the eighties for Christ’s sake, if you get a wrong number, don’t treat it like, oh, okay, goodbye. Every opportunity is a sale. I’ve had people misfire on social media or texting me, thinking that we’re talking to another person and I’ve actually turned it into an opportunity.

So view everything. Everything is an opportunity in one way, shape or form. Right? So that’s all I got to say about that. Well, and

Speaker 1 (43m 13s): I get, when I get spammed, I, I point them towards our affiliate program, ASB cash.

Speaker 2 (43m 20s): That’s what you gotta do. I mean, I’ll get these people sending me things. And it’s like, if I want to spend the time and educate them a little bit, sometimes I’ll do that. Right. But otherwise, you know, I’ll just send them a link to our media kit and go, look, if you’re interested in getting your name out there, spending and wasting time doing what you’re doing right now is not going to help. Right. What I would suggest is buy an ad. Let me put you up here. If you’ve got a press release, I can put it out, right. You’re not going to get rich and you’re not going to do this overnight, but you know, it’s going to help you. And I’m here for you. And 99% of the time they choose to ignore it.

And then I never hear from them

Speaker 1 (43m 51s): Again, know there’s that 1%. Hey, how, how long did you, and I know each other before we became a client,

Speaker 2 (43m 59s): I think I probably met you in like 2004. Sounds about right. It’s been about 17 years. I think I got you. You bought a house or you did something with the wipey, Mexico. And I was selling a little Casita’s and I think I sold you a room as part of a bigger house or maybe your own hotel room. I don’t remember what, but that’s where I met you. It’s been that long. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44m 22s): And oh God, I missed those shows. Oh, I miss those. Oh, it was reckless. It was fun. It was crazy. But I mean, but you know, we knew each other that long and just in recent years we started spending money with you. And I think that’s probably the best example of all, you know, things don’t happen overnight, make relationships. I agree with you wholeheartedly as someone who, who, I also consider myself to be a sales person. Obviously, if you want a competent person and you just have to yeah.

Make relationships, ask questions, be present and just get to know people. You know, I get, I get spanned. I get spammed a ton between LinkedIn, between emails, between Skype 99.9% of the time. They have no idea who I am or what I do. And they all want to sell me traffic or want to buy my traffic or that’s the most, obviously I’m sure you get a lot of that too. What they

Speaker 2 (45m 26s): Want to sell me traffic or buy it or something. Yeah. Or get that, or I get crypto or I get dating offers or I get someone throwing a million different, like abbreviations my way. And I don’t have a freaking clue what the hell they’re talking about. Right. I know.

Speaker 1 (45m 41s): Huh? Yeah. The abbreviation stuff it’s like, and sometimes it has to do with, with the deal. And I go, I’m sorry. Maybe I’m stupid. But what does that mean? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 53s): It’s just like, don’t assume, don’t assume when you’re reaching out to someone that they’re going to understand all your lingo and then again, it wouldn’t right. You wouldn’t be going after the person in the first place. If you actually knew something about them and what they did and that they really weren’t right for you and vice versa, then you wouldn’t have to worry about throwing jargon their way because you wouldn’t be hitting them up for that. You’re

Speaker 1 (46m 12s): Absolutely right. Well, Jay, as always, thanks for being with us today on adults, I broker tuck and I look forward to getting you back on again soon.

Speaker 2 (46m 24s): Appreciate it. And I apologize to all your listeners. If I went a little long wind at and everything, but you put a coin in me and I don’t stop.

Speaker 1 (46m 31s): Never a problem. My broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy and then establishing what your budget is next. It’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult site broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can always act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site.

Other places to look are boards like expedite.net and gfi.com. But to be completely honest, unless what you’re looking for is really low end. You’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course you could contact site, odors yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living on a daily basis. It’s a major hassle. And it can be really hard to even find out who owns the site. Almost all sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar.

So when you send them an email, you’ll probably be sending it to an anonymous address. And in most cases, the emails aren’t returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally we know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out, we’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Ava Durga of Circle of Q.

Speaker 0 (48m 0s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Jay Kopita.Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Mark Prince and Robert Warren of 2Much.net.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker adults’ light broker is proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The site went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages.

Google has placed the websites in good search positions are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic now only $595,000.

Now time for this week’s interview my guests today on adult site broker talk, and yes, I said, guests are Mark Prince and Robert the legacy Warren of too much.net guys. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (3m 3s): Thank you very much for inviting us. Thank you, Bruce. It’s an honor to be here. It’s a

Speaker 1 (3m 7s): Pleasure. Have both of you. These guys are two long time friends, so this is going to be fun. Now too much.net is a company that produces live video chat software and has been doing that for over 20 years. They operated live cam network for a long time and their latest project is mirror cam, which mark will tell us about and a little bit here. Mark Prince is a 24 year veteran of the adult industry. Mark got his start in the industry in late 1997, by 1999. He hired his first programmer and his company moved from a small home office to the 5,000 square foot loft and trendy old Montreal, where the company now employs a growing group of coders and dozens of sexy local cam models.

Now, of course, currently, as we record this, we’ve gone back to in-home camming due to COVID-19 a while remaining behind the scenes. Mark has spoken at many trade shows, including Quebec expo and ex biz LA. He’s also provided endless advice to new people entering the business. Robert Warren is a 28 year veteran of the adult industry and serves as a mentor to many industry professionals. Robert AKA, the legacy offers advice, wisdom, and guidance to company owners down to new webmasters and sales reps.

In addition, Robert has also spoken at a variety of seminars throughout the years, as, as an industry expert written, many columns appeared on radio programs and podcasts, including this one, along with having numerous articles written about him, many owners and successful individuals today, ow, many of their achievements to Robert recently, he joined his friend mark@toomuch.net. Now, mark, we’ll start with you since you own the joint. Last time we talked about mirror cam, why don’t you refresh our memory about what it is?

And I guess now it’s a happening thing

Speaker 3 (4m 56s): It’s getting there. It’s it’s there it’s a brand new software. It replaces our old software life chem network from my years ago. It’s the, the new version is pretty different from the old version. It incorporates lots of new features that we’ve been, that the models have been requesting for a long time. And that users have been requesting for a long time. It’s a pretty different, okay, how so? Well, so for example, the on traditional video chat websites, there’s kind of a distinct separation between models and customers.

People can go to customers can go to the website and chat with the models. And that’s basically about it with mirror cam customers can interact with the models in, in different ways. Users can create their own profiles and create their own personalities on the site. Even though they’re not a model, they can like follow post messages, comment on images and galleries and things like that. A little similar to Facebook, the data that’s collected by all of the interaction helps give models more information and helps them target customers.

When it comes to let’s say fantasy fulfillment or niches, right? A lot of different things like that. It’s, it’s being set up to be a like right now it’s, it’s it’s up and running and we have new features coming out, but it’s being, I would say set up to be something even greater than it is right now. That’s

Speaker 1 (6m 34s): Fantastic. You, you are, you are such the developer slash mad scientist. When I hear you talk about that and, and, and it sounds, it is a compliment and, and, and it sounds like you’ve really brought your product into the social media age.

Speaker 3 (6m 50s): Yeah. And unfortunately we were late to the game doing that, right? So the, we should have, one of the mistakes we made is we should’ve embraced social media a lot earlier than we did. Well,

Speaker 1 (7m 3s): Hey, it happens to all of us now, mark Robert is one of the most respected names in our business. How did you manage to get them over to your team?

Speaker 3 (7m 13s): Well, it was a lot of pleading and begging and a lot of favors, which we won’t get into that right now. Oh, I

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): Want to hear, I want to hear, want to hear about that? Are your knees sore or anything?

Speaker 3 (7m 27s): Yeah, well, not the, not anymore, but I use that Christian now, you know? No, it was no, we’ve been friends for a super long time and we got to talking one day just about business in general and things like that and realized that, that I could really use him because he’s like, as his nickname, the legacy is really well earned. Right. He hasn’t been around for a long time.

He knows everyone and everyone and everyone really smart. He’s helped keep my business on track, you know, both in his friendly advice and as in professional advice as well. So yeah, it’s, it seemed like it was, I was going to say match made in heaven. That’s not quite what I mean, it was more like, it was, it was more like better timing and the lucky for me that’s for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.


Speaker 1 (8m 27s): Now Robert, you’ve known mark for a long time and after all these years you’re working with too much.net, which has been a surprise to some. Why did you go to work with mark?

Speaker 2 (8m 39s): Well, over the years and I’ve had a lot of people say to me, you know, like, why don’t you start up your own company? And even you’ve said that to me, and I know that Marcus said that as well, and I’ve always been hesitant on doing it. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been thinking that the, you know, the past couple of years that I’ve got, you know, you know, that’s, I mean, I’m kind of limited in my future, you know, like I’m not going to be here forever. And I want the remaining years that I’ve got in this industry to be pleasant, to be one of giving and one of helping and doing the right thing.

And, you know, I just want to go on a high note and be beneficial. I think with mark, it was more of just, you know, that just as adding to my happiness, I mean, working with, with a old friend, a dear friend of mine that I’ve known, you know, for a long time, I mean, hell, we used to, you know, sit there out in front of the Playboy mansion, smoking weed on the stairs and do a bunch of things.

You know, it’s just, we get our personalities are so well suited even though we’re, we’re different there it’s, it’s still a good combination. We, we work well together. And so the, the things that I bring to the table help, I think help bolster what he’s created and I think as well, but he’s created as well, helps bolster and help me out because the people that I talk to, they’re always looking for somebody who’s, who’s trustworthy and get stuff done.

And, you know, I am nowhere near on the caliber of, of mark when it comes to doing certain things and I know mark can handle it. And he basically makes the impossible possible when it comes to programming. And that, so it just seems as though we’re, you know, together, we make a very strong force in, in the, in the industry that very few can even come close to a match. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10m 51s): I D I, you know, I just noticed the other day on X biz, that his logo was in your signature. And I reached out to both you guys and congratulated dude, cause I’m like, well, geez, that’s a natural. I mean, these guys have built on each other forever. So Robert you’re coming up on three decades in the industry. God damn, that’s a long time now. You’ve obviously he started when he was 12. Of course. Now obviously you’ve seen many changes happen.

What’s what’s remained similar. And what are the most notable differences from your perspective?

Speaker 2 (11m 27s): What has remained similar is the type of webmaster that enters into the industry. They’re there they’re wide eyed, bushy tailed. I’m thinking that if, you know, by reading a few things in hearing a few people that they’re going to make millions and they don’t have to spend a hell of a lot of money. And unfortunately there are people out there that will take advantage of said webmasters or new people out there.

Yes, that’s always there, there will always be those people that love to create conflict within, within the family of the adults. And, you know, you get on the webmaster boards and all that. And you’re just like, you know what, just stop talking. Adults are having a conversation here. And they’re just bringing in, in, you know, is, is just useless stuff.

There’s a lot of that going on. And that’s another reason why I think as well, I’ve been so successful because I managed to somehow sort out the people that I feel are going to be successful versus the ones that I think, you know, just by their attitude and where they’re going, that are just, sorry, you’re not going to last long. You know? And we, we had that conversation before when I find somebody who can be successful and I get in and all that, that I try to help them out to do that.

Whether it’s a webmaster, whether it’s somebody who’s a sales rep, whether it’s a company, whatever, then I do that. It was, if it is a successful company, I don’t want to see them go under, I don’t want to see them fall because we need, you know, companies that have been lasting a long time in this industry as a stable factor for everybody else to see, because if there’s high turnover, then that kind of scares the crap out of everybody.

And it opens the door to people that just are misinformed and they just throw everybody off. What’s been different. Well, sort of the other thing that’s stayed the same is I hate using the word fake news, but just, you know, every single year or every other year, I hear a panic story as to how the whole industry is going to fall apart. And it’s you name it?

It’s, you know, we’re all gonna, we’re all gonna die. We’re all going to be out of business. Can you really make money in this industry? The case in point, it started with the tubes starting to, to grow by the way. Yeah. <inaudible> tubes are amazing. We’re not, but everybody started to come around. Everybody was like, that’s it? You know, the rest of us are dead. These guys are taking over the industry. And at that time I kept saying, be creative, use them to your advantage and you’ll find you can be successful doing it.

Sure. Well, those people that listened obviously did that, you know, they’re surviving and you know, people are going, oh, we’re all dead because the tubes are dying. And it’s like, well, let’s kind of do the same thing here. You know? Like we started off as individual websites. Let’s go back to that. Yeah. And then with COVID coming in, everybody’s going, everybody’s going up, that’s it, we’re all dead. We can’t do any more shoots. Well, you know what, there’s a benefit to the site. Let’s work with that. I mean, it just, every single year, there’s, there’s something to scare the crap out of people.

And you just got to sit down and say, just breathe, take a chill pill. We can make it, we can do it. Let’s just be smart about our decisions. Right. Do yeah, no. Yeah, exactly. And unfortunately, you know, if you read too much of the crap that’s out there, then those, it scares the crap out of people. And or if you get linked up to the wrong people talking to you, then you’re really screwed.

And there’s a lot of people wasting their money out there on stuff. I saw one guy a couple of months ago. I mean, he was being, somebody wanted to charge him $2,000 just to index a site. Or, you know, when you take the Google analytics, the coding, just to put on your webpage, he was charging them $2,000 for that. And that’s exactly what I said. I said, stop right there. I said, and I showed him right there, how to get the code from analytics and put it on his site.

And he was like, that’s it? I said, yep. That was $2,000 right there. And he was stunned.

Speaker 1 (16m 33s): Well, it’s like the, it’s like the guys that send you the notices for your domain and they want $300 for it or something, you know, when it’s, when it’s ready to renew and there’s, and there’s dumb, there’s dummies that will do that.

Speaker 2 (16m 45s): Yeah. And then there’s people that think that, you know, I can hire a programmer for $500 or an SEO person or marketing person for 500, a thousand dollars and that’ll do it. It can happen, you know? And so there’s a lot of, of negative things that, that go on. The next thing would be things that need to, or that I see as far as the, the benefits with some of the, the Vanguard around, we are here to teach and to train and to write articles and do podcasts and to help people out.

So there is hope there is hope for that’s what, that’s, where we want to come in and, and be like that. And I think with, with teaming, with mark, who is a very good source of information and hope for people, I mean, they come to him and they have certain ideas about, you know, programming and all that and how things should go. And he’s like, you know, if he was just a regular programmer, he’d be like, oh, you know, sure, go ahead.

You know, let’s do it that way. And then just let them run off and fail. But mark actually cares. And you go in and say, look, if you do it this way, you’re going to screw up and you’re going to fail. Right. This is what I recommend. And the people who listened to his advice are the ones who do succeed and at least have the shot.

Speaker 1 (18m 21s): I think, I think all three of us are, are people that care. I think that’s something that we’ve got in common. And I think we have that in common with a lot of people in this industry. So, you know, that’s a good thing. That’s a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Mark, when COVID-19 is behind us and we’re, we’re recording this in may and running it in August. So hopefully by then, it’s pretty close. What are your attendance plans for trade shows?

Speaker 3 (18m 50s): I plan to, as long as everything is safe and more or less back to normal, I planned that to hit them hard. It’s been years. Like I’ve always attended Quebec expo here in Montreal. And, but it’s been quite a while since I’ve been to some of the others, like X biz. And so, and now I kind of not just miss them, but feel like they were taken away from me. Right. So I plan to hit them hard when that things get back to normal. I plan to attend as many shows as I can afford.

Speaker 2 (19m 19s): How about you, Robert? Definitely. What, what he was saying about the Quebec expo. I want to get back to Vegas, the circle bar, you know, Florida, some of the exhibition shows not just for the fun and, and the, you know, just being together as a family, as an adult family, but finally, to sit down and talk to people I’ve already had my Pfizer shot. So I’m really hoping that everybody else gets there so that we can meet together.

Speaker 1 (19m 53s): I traveled, I traveled to the U S saying next week and I’m hoping to get Johnson and Johnson. So there’ll be one and done. So that’s, and that’s my main reason for going to the states because Thailand is just so jacked up when it comes to the vaccine. Don’t get me started now. Now Robert mark has also been around the industry for a long time. I remember Robert Hughes saying to me that you too, and you mentioned this earlier, we’re at the Playboy mansion together in front smoking weed, is that,

Speaker 3 (20m 21s): You know, you’ve made it by the way. Okay.

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): Okay. I guess, I guess I, I guess, I guess I haven’t made it is, is that, is that how the friendship started? And by the way it was

Speaker 2 (20m 32s): Pat Hefner’s bird.

Speaker 1 (20m 33s): Okay. Well was, well, that was my question. Okay. Oh really? Okay. Was Hugh there getting high with you guys or any of the bunnies? Just kind of curious?

Speaker 3 (20m 44s): No, unfortunately he was like, he was around, but no, we didn’t get to like, you know, sit down and smoke with them. Unfortunately, that would have been really nice, but Nope. Did, did,

Speaker 1 (20m 59s): Did you, did you get to pet, did you get to pet the bunnies?

Speaker 3 (21m 2s): No. They, the good question there were, I think I tried to pet the bunnies, but they kept running away from me. I don’t know.

Speaker 2 (21m 10s): Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. The picture has got you with three girls hanging on you, but they weren’t buddies. They weren’t buddies. Well, I remember you remember very well, mark, the Taiwan. I had like three or four bunnies around me and I was having my phone up and you went in for a look and you found out that I was actually sitting there showing pictures of my kids. You mentioned,

Speaker 1 (21m 40s): I think you mentioned, I think you mentioned that at the first time we talked. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (21m 44s): You did. You did. Everybody’s wondering how the hell I can get like that many bunnies around

Speaker 1 (21m 51s): Me. Hey, either either kids or dogs at that’ll usually do the trick. My, my, my dogs, my dogs usually get me a lot of attention from the girls a lot more than I get. So is that how you guys met by the way? No.

Speaker 3 (22m 7s): No. The like weeds usually like, at least for Robin, I like we had run into each other previous trade shows and shook hands maybe. And, but sometimes you might start up a conversation right away, sometimes not, but after seeing familiar faces, you know, at this show that another show, oh, Hey, do again, Hey, how’s it going? And then we started a conversation like that and that’s usually how I am at trade shows. Anyway. I tend to be kind of a shy and quiet. So that’s why I need Rob.

Rob’s a great talker. And I’m just, I, you know, I’ll spend all kinds of money at my booth and then just hide behind it half the time, you know? So, but yeah. So no, we met at a few shows previous.

Speaker 1 (22m 51s): Yeah. No more hands, no more handshakes. Only, only, only elbow books. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So what is it about mark that you’d want to associate with this company, Robert too much.net?

Speaker 2 (23m 7s): Well, I kinda thought I went through that. It was just first is the integrity. The fact that for all these years, he’s held pretty much the same values as I have when it comes to helping people that are relatively new and old and, you know, giving of his time in itself to do that, I think as well, just from the first couple of times, just meeting that, his demeanor a, you know, he might be soft-spoken but very knowledgeable as well.

He’s not an idiot. And so he, he has taught me a lot of stuff on his end. And as I told you before, I told him, I told many people when I, when I meet them, it’s like, you know, I don’t know everything about the industry, but I sure as hell know the people who do and it comes to this side of it. I mean, definitely I bring mark into the equation, but I don’t know for some reason him and I, even though, as I said, we, we have different personalities, but we’re very similar.

And when it comes to work, we just, we are very sensitive to each other’s are very respectful of each other’s personality and experience. And we listen. And then if somebody is in a disagreement, rather than just saying, you know, whatever it’s going to, okay, let’s, let’s take that and let’s see if there’s a way we can work with both or do whatever. Like it’s a very constructive meeting that we have.

And you know, sometimes when we’re talking to clients, I can take I’m, I’m able to understand him a lot better so that if I see that, you know, at times when people talk to programmers, they can be lost. You know, there’s this little glow that happens in the rise. I can sometimes put it into illustration that they pick up on it and go, okay, I get it. So I think I help out in that way.

I hope I do, because I like to think that, you know, that I helped mark because I sure as hell can help him in programming. So, but yeah, so, but no, he’s just, he’s one of these guys that it’s hard to pinpoint because there’s, there’s a lot of respect. There’s a lot of integrity. There’s a lot of knowledge and experience that he has. And I, I respect somebody like that who looks at other people as opportunities of success, not too, rather than people to screw over.


Speaker 1 (26m 2s): Yeah. I got you. Now, let me ask you both some questions and I’ll start with mark. You both been at endless trade chosen parties had, do you have any stories I’d like to share the giggle giggle. Giggle. Okay. Yeah. Into that question first.

Speaker 2 (26m 23s): Okay. I remember many years back when, and I think this is where a lot of started as to who I was and how companies who hired me at the time trusted me is because there was a time when I was working at a company and another one was trying get me to hire me. And I was declining their offer. So in Vegas they actually sent two girls to my room.

And I remember the knock on the door and I opened it and it was, you know, these two girls were standing there and I knew exactly what was going on. So I actually reached into my pocket and I gave them each, sorry, I gave them $500. And I just said, you know, tell you what go downstairs to the casino. But when you go back and talk to these guys, tell them that I was the best fuck you ever had in the world. And that you can’t believe that a white guy ever had a Dick like yours and just go.

And they did. And because, and then later on, they came back to me and they said, why? And I, and I just basically told, because I said, if I can be bought and sold for a piece of ass, then the next person’s going to come around and they’re going to ask for, offer me another piece of ass. And if I could be bought and sold for that, then I’m not going to be trusted at all in this industry because that’s how easy I could be bought. Hey

Speaker 1 (27m 56s): Mark. Do you understand that? I’m, I’m trying to, I’m trying to, I’m trying to go with the logic here and I’m having no, I didn’t think so. No bullshit to me. Yeah, it really does actually, but yeah, it’s worth it. So mark, you don’t have any stories.

Speaker 3 (28m 11s): Well, I do. It just, it’s not as colorful as Rob’s. Come on, give me this. Give me a story. Well, it’s not that it’s okay. I guess, but we decided to throw a party on a yacht in, at Internext in Florida. Sorry. I forgot the year. And it took the yod became more of a party boat because people were interested in, then it became more complicated because we hired a steel drum band and then we needed to bars and things like that.

And then everything turned out to in the end. Really good. Oh, sorry. Except that there is a couple of hurricanes floating around threatening, disrupt everything. And there was no way they’re going to give their money back level. So it was a very expensive events put together and it ended up working pretty well, at least for the first hour, until the coast guard came around and shut it, shut everything down and made our boat turned around.

Speaker 1 (29m 8s): Oh, that sucks. That’s

Speaker 3 (29m 10s): And our owner sign fell off the boat into the, into the water. And you know, like it was just a bunch of minor things, but it was the first time I’d ever done anything that big and that expensive. I really couldn’t enjoy myself that much. You know, eventually I smiled my way through it and it was still a positive experience in the end, but yeah,

Speaker 1 (29m 34s): Sometimes not sometimes, you know, sometimes when you’re throwing the party, you don’t have near as much as the people who were at the party. That’s that’s been my experience.

Speaker 3 (29m 45s): Yeah. That’s true. Cause you worried about everyone else having fun.

Speaker 1 (29m 48s): Exactly. Now, Rob, pretend I’m a client and the two of your work and on my website, when it comes to a project who’s in charge or is it a collaboration of the two of you?

Speaker 2 (29m 59s): It’s not a matter of who’s in charge. It’s, who’s the most capable of handling a particular situation in the project. So if we’re talking programming, obviously mark is the one who speaks.

Speaker 3 (30m 15s): If we talk, I would say the client is in charge, but part of what you’re paying for is the advice. But yeah, Robert and I are doing different jobs on, on, on that projects like that. Excuse me. I’m losing my voice. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to cut you off. Continue.

Speaker 2 (30m 36s): Yeah, no, actually mark. No, thank you, mark. That’s a very good, I should have said that as well, but yeah, no. Like if it comes to marketing and SEO and things like that, then I’ll jump in. But mark is always there to work with me all of that and, and vice versa. But at the end of the day, it’s the client who who’s really in charge of the whole thing. I mean, they’re, they’re the ones who got the final say on what goes, where does it go? It’s our job to give them the information so that they make an informed decision.

Speaker 1 (31m 10s): Now, mark, there are new regulations coming down regarding how websites handle their legal matters as well as their processing. Things can change quickly. How do you stay on top of it and adapt?

Speaker 3 (31m 23s): Well, I pay attention to like companies like X bays who are always, you know, putting it then a new set really fast. And then I’m also talking to people I partner with. So for example, I’m in touch with Metro RedNet belling. And I asked them about the, the change is coming to MasterCard, right? So people like Mitch, people like Kathy at SEG pay, et cetera. They’re really good at the, at the making sure that, you know, adult sites are running properly and that all the I’s dotted and T’s crossed, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (31m 57s): Okay. Now with this new collaboration, is there anything now you two can’t handle as far as the potential clients Rob?

Speaker 2 (32m 7s): Well there’s, as I said, our network of people has grown to such an extent that if something is there that we potentially may or may not have an idea about, we can easily contact and get that information grow. But so far we really haven’t gotten to that point. I mean, arc has got a pretty darn good handle on everything on that side. And, and so far I’ve been pretty good on the, on what I’m doing, but I would think we’ve got a lot of things covered.

A lot of bases covered and we’ve, we’ve had, you know, clients, not just from the adult, but from the mainstream world. I know for mark, especially, or in the mainstream world, who’ve come in and you know, they’re, they’ve got some very, very unique ideas, but we can, we can handle it and we can do it. And we just know that we have a repertoire in our, in our, in our file system to get a hold of people, to give us a help if we need it.

Okay. Now. Yeah. Things come up the thrills off.

Speaker 1 (33m 25s): Yeah. Good. Now, now mark. And I’ll ask you guys both this, what do you do when you’re not working? How do you relax

Speaker 3 (33m 32s): For me? It’s I want to say reading, but I haven’t done much reading this year at all. So it’s a lot of catching up on then or binge watching some Netflix more exercise than I used to get that taken care of. You know, like it’s, it’s, it’s strangely normal things like gardening, taking care of our lawn and fixing the house and you know, things very, very, just not mundane, but you know, I like doing all that kind of stuff.

So it’s, that’s what keeps me busy when I’m not, you know, working on adults. I have a mainstream business as well, which is pretty automated at this point. So yeah, a lot of my offline time is, is that working around the house,

Speaker 2 (34m 25s): If it’s not online, like if it’s online, I’m reading, but with the wife of five kids, it’s mostly, you know, playing with the kids, keeping them happy. I love to cook. So I cook for the family. I keep the kids occupied in play. I try to read as much as I can, but that’s more, you know, adult orientated. I get out to certain events and listen to speakers.

But yeah, no, I like reading, playing with the kids, getting them laughing, just being a kid myself, easy to, easy to do in this industry. Isn’t it?

Speaker 3 (35m 11s): Oh, I forgot. I like, I have a drone. I like to fly a lot. So that’s, that’s always fun if Rob, if you don’t have a drone by yourself, you’re fine.

Speaker 2 (35m 19s): You know what? I had one, this is a true story. I had a drone, it was a, it was a helicopter type of thing. And I gave it to like, the kids were playing with it and then the grandfather came over, he started flying it and he brought it. He took it up so high that it went the signal and just went somewhere and Rover around for like about 20 minutes until we found it three streets over.

We have

Speaker 1 (35m 51s): Grandpa, grandpa, grandpa, grandpa, grandpa crashed the drone. Huh? I hate when that happens. That sounds, that sounds like a song, you know, grandma got run over by a reindeer, something along those lines. So yeah. What signs do you guys look for in a client to know if they’re going to succeed or fail and D and D help them out if they’re having issues. And if you do,

Speaker 3 (36m 21s): I’ll take that one first. So yeah. There’s I refuse a certain amount of clients if they have unrealistic expectations. So sometimes clients will want a, B and C and they, their ideas maybe are from 20 years ago or have either proven not to work or I know work or whatnot. So if a customer is paying me to write some software, I probably, I know it rubs some people the wrong way, but I try to give us some advice.

They should say, well, maybe you should consider doing it this way instead of that way. Why? Because XYZ 1, 2, 3, right? And sometimes you don’t like that idea. And you know, I will say, well, okay, maybe we shouldn’t work together because my experience is that this is not a good idea. Right? And sometimes there’s people that just have completely the wrong attitude about adult, for example. And this is a good growth story.

One guy called and he was an affiliate of some webcam company and he wanted his own. And when he was sorry, there’s noise. That scientists need to change rooms for a second. No, it’s okay. Go ahead. Sorry. So one time this guy called and he was interested in a website, but he had completely the wrong attitude. He was an affiliate of a campsite and he wanted his own and the way he was talking, he was saying he was completely disrespectful to women.

He was saying things, yeah, I’ve got all these bitches coming in and out these fucking whores, this and that. They, they don’t pay attention to what the fucking supposed to do. Fucking bitches LA, just like, oh great. You know? And so after a few minutes of listening to him, talk like that, I made up an excuse saying we’re actually kind of too busy call back another time, you know? So that those are the kind of people I will just never work with. How about you, Rob?

Speaker 2 (38m 33s): I’m pretty much when let’s say ditto to what mark has just said. Generally for me, I have a lot of people contacting me, even when we’ve, when I was working with somebody, I was getting like four or five people contacting me. I generally try to help them out at first, because to me it’s kinda like, you know, if it can be done for free, you know, trying to help them out because that’s always been the way that I have been.

And I’m not going to change that. Right. If they are really having a hard time and it’s becoming a little too difficult, then, I mean, you can give them step by step instructions. Right. But if they’re sitting there and they’re really good begging for some help and things like that, then you have to again, watch the attitude, which is exactly what mark was saying. You know, there are some people out there that are very disrespectful and, or just, don’t like taking advice.

You and I had this conversation before as to how companies are set up as kind of the same way when you’re working with somebody. If they’re willing to take advice and learn from it, then great. If they’re not prepared to learn, then what am I here for sure. So if they’re willing and to learn if they are serious about learning, because then, then I’m wasting my time because I can sit there and I could list off 10 or more things that they need to do to help them out.

And I can show them the path and I will give them all of the things, the tools that they need to do it. But, and then I’ll say, I’ll come back in a week and see how far you’ve gotten. If they haven’t done anything, then I know they’re not serious about it. Sure, sure. And yeah. So if they haven’t thought it through a planet through then it’s kinda like, you know, I don’t think that you can, you know, that it, you know, we, we would make a good pair to, to, to do anything, but, and now I’ve met some people that have surprised me.

I’m not saying that it’s perfect all the time. Sure. But you know, other, and I’ve made mistakes before. I mean, I’ve met people that I thought were just brilliant and they were great at leadership and, you know, they knew what they were doing and the whole thing. But then as things progressed, their mindset of us went completely the other way. And then I had to step out and step back and, and just say, okay, you, you do what you need to do. I mean, you stopped taking advice from me.

You stopped doing this. You’re going along your own path. You know, I, I wish you all the best. And I’ve seen that over the years so much. I, I don’t want to name companies. I mean, some of them they’ve already died, but normally the companies that I have to leave or the companies that, that I’ve had to step away from, generally they do die. And I just sit there and I watched them decline. I feel horrible because I know what it would take for them to grow.

Right. But they don’t want to listen. You know, very stubborn on that. It’s the

Speaker 1 (41m 60s): Old, it’s the old, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink

Speaker 2 (42m 5s): Or you can lead a horse to a drink. You can’t make them water. I liked

Speaker 1 (42m 10s): That. I liked that. I’m gonna use that. So, so Robert, a long time ago you described the adult industry as a family. Do you still feel that way? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (42m 20s): Very much so. Oh my God. I’m, I’m 60 years old and I still, you know, consider people, you know, brothers or sisters way before I consider them, you know, industry people. I mean, these are when we talk it’s no, we don’t talk about business as much as, you know, Hey, how’s your kids doing? You know, how’s people doing, how’s the wife.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Richard boss, for example. Sure. I, his daughter, who’s amazing. I mean, I remember her when she was like eight and now she’s like growing up and she’s going to college or something. And I’m just, I’ve been there all away watching and many, many people it’s, you get involved in their life and you talk things that are important to them. And, and it’s, it’s mostly because as well, you, you normally work with and you buy from people you trust.

Sure, sure. And so if I am, if I’m part of an organization of a part of something, it means that I feel comfortable enough to, to promote it. That means that somebody should be able to trust it because I do. And that’s, that’s kind of where that that’s part of the whole industry. Because if I see somebody is associated with a certain company, I’ll call them up and it’s like, Hey, you know, can I, you know, are these people good?

Can I trust them? And when you have that type of relationship, that’s beyond a working relationship that’s family. And so, yeah, that’s, that’s kind of where we are

Speaker 1 (44m 18s): Now. Mark, what would your advice be for someone new looking to get into adult, both in front of the camera and also behind the camera?

Speaker 3 (44m 28s): First thing I would say would be to create what you love. So for example, whatever, someone’s fetishes, whatever they really like about, you know, sex is a whatever really turns them on is something that they should focus on. So if they’re going to start a website, let’s say the guy has as a foot fetish, he shouldn’t make a site about anything else. Right? If the, whoever, the, whoever the person is, if they’re a business owner or a model or a photographer, build their business based on what they really like.

Speaker 1 (45m 7s): How about you, Robert?

Speaker 2 (45m 9s): That’s a very good question. That’s why I asked it. Yeah. Somebody getting in the industry, I would basically say, you know, you gotta start, you know, if you’re going in as a sales rep, read, read, and read more, just get yourself up on what’s happening currently. Right? If you are cam model, do the same thing, but also be yourself or listen to your clients.

If you’re an owner, listen to you, listen to your elders.

Speaker 1 (45m 48s): Oh, you are, you do sound like a parent.

Speaker 2 (45m 52s): Yeah. Like it’s like, listen to your elders. There are people around. Who’ve been around for a long time. Listen to them. Don’t listen to the other yahoos that are on the boards that are just trying to create crop. And you know, you think that they’re the greatest things in the world? No, no. Do what I do. And I told you that I did this before. When I go to a, a party at a trade show, I never get involved in some of the stuff that’s happening. I always go to the back of the room, the farthest table.

And you will always find a couple people sitting there and you sit down and I’ll guarantee you nine times out of 10. Those will be the owners of companies. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (46m 33s): They’re not going to get involved in all the bullshit.

Speaker 2 (46m 35s): Right. And believe it or not. I think that’s how mark and I met because he’s the same way. And so he was sitting at the back there. That’s where I went, because I’ve always believed that yeah.

Speaker 3 (46m 51s): Painted in anything like that. But yeah, I would, I’m always more of the kind of person that would hang back. I would also tell anyone new that’s once again, involved in the industry is to join X bin X business.net. Right. It’s free and you can sign up and you meet the veterans and you meet the newbies and the models and the lawyers and the, you know, and the, the super Bruce’s like you and the world and things like that. Right.

And you’re, you can ask questions and you know, there’s more than several people in subject that will jump on the chance to answer the questions and help people out.

Speaker 1 (47m 35s): People are very helpful. I miss, I miss the why on forums because they were that way too.

Speaker 2 (47m 40s): Yep. Yeah. I was a moderator on those boards. Yup. Yup. I remember back in the day, but that’s what I mean by listen to your elders because on experts, they’re the ones who give you advice.

Speaker 1 (47m 59s): Robert, you are, you are a dad.

Speaker 2 (48m 2s): Yeah, I guess so. Oh yeah. But yeah, no, it’s it’s you have old people have gone through a lot of stuff. And if they’re prepared to share with you, what, they’ve the experiences, the good and the bad and what to avoid and what to grasp onto, then you need to take that advice and go with it. And if you can’t do that, then you shouldn’t even be here.

Speaker 1 (48m 28s): I agree. I agree. Well, Hey, Robert, mark, I’d like to thank you guys for being our guest today on adult. Say broker tuck, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. Thank you for having me

Speaker 2 (48m 39s): And thank you. Yeah. Thank you for having us, Bruce. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (48m 43s): Fantastic. Thanks guys. My broker tip today is part one on how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a cam site, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site or something else. If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and what niche? There are literally hundreds of niches and many sub niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears and mature, bareback Asian, Latino amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification.

Plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms straight has even more niches. I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site or I want to buy a porn site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like men and want to buy a straight site. That’s probably a really bad idea.

Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays apart, what is your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning. Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a campsite with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re going to need a huge investment to build it up.

In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk more about this subject next week. And next week, we’ll be talking to LA J co PETA of why not.

Speaker 0 (50m 47s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guests And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guests Mark Prince and Robert Warren of 2Much.net.
Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Reba Rocket of Takedown Piracy.

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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. The first NSFW social media platform in the world. The web app benefits from innovative technologies that enable over 960,000 members to instantly share their sexy photos and videos via computer or mobile.

Today, the site has more than 200 new members sign-ups every day with zero spent on marketing. These leads are essentially coming from organic SEO, word of mouth and premium backlinks. The site has received great articles and top magazines such as Playboy daily dot refinery, 29 and more in 2019, the sites started recurring subscriptions, which made it more private platform since only registered members now have access to the content while it impacted the traffic on the platform.

The user base is now very valuable as the site only accepts verified users. There are now over 60,000 active members. Average time on the site is over 10 minutes. The site has a team of four super users moderating the platform to ensure there’s no illegal content among the photos and videos. Also there’s a report feature so that every member can report content that might infringe on someone’s rights. The site gets most of its traffic from the USA, Brazil, Mexico, France, and Spain, all this for only $840,000.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult type broker talk is Reba rocket vice president of marketing and communications at take down piracy, Reba. Thanks for being with us today on the adult side broker talk. Now Reba’s very eclectic background includes seven years as a morning show radio jock, and late night television host on Houston’s NBC affiliate, the syndicate coordinator for one of the world’s largest security firms, a licensed real estate agent in three states and more the common theme through all our careers included some form of marketing and communications.

And she’s thrilled to have the privilege of working for one of the most successful anti-piracy content protection copyright enforcement firms anywhere take, take down. Piracy was founded by Nate glass in 2008. In fact, I met him bright after he founded the company. Now in his 13th year in business, it’s removed over 126.2 million infringements from the internet utilizing digital fingerprinting technology that does not require the cooperation of over 133 of the most prolific tube sites take down.

Piracy is become one of the most trusted names in anti-piracy content protection and content enforcement well known and respected news sources like Nightline, Buzzfeed, Forbes, Huffington post, and more considered takedown piracy. The source for expert commentary and the company is the go-to service for the ever-growing list of clients and sorry, Reba. That’s all we have time for

Speaker 2 (4m 40s): Today. So

Speaker 1 (4m 44s): That’s it. That’s it. That’s your commercial. Okay. So Reba, the first thing I want to ask you about is your broadcast career. Since I always have a, also have a background in radio and TV, how did you go from there to where you are now?

Speaker 3 (4m 57s): Oh gosh. Well, there was a lot in between. I mean, like I just jumped out as a CDO, into working for take down piracy. I actually missed the Boston for a hot minute. Then a few years there, I had an opportunity to attend Harvard university. They have a college of extension studies program, which is designed for people who don’t attend traditionally straight out of high school.

So I, I got to attend a class there and I also, I held them in my rose state licenses in Boston as well. And then we moved back here about eight years ago and I worked for a one of Amazon’s largest third party sellers globally is real estate here as well. But I knew that there was a fit for me in the company. I can just see it. And so I started working with him and I just never looked back.


Speaker 1 (6m 2s): Yeah, your, your resume must be like 14 pages long because you just added another page. Now,

Speaker 3 (6m 9s): When you get to do this all, if you get a lung resume, oh,

Speaker 1 (6m 14s): I have a feeling. I have a feeling I’m a lot older. So how did take down piracy, get it start.

Speaker 3 (6m 21s): It’s such a fun story. So Nate about two and a half decades ago was, you know, very young working as a clerk in an adult store and just was really uniquely capable of kind of looking at marketplaces and retail and seeing what they needed to do. And so he was promoted. He was pulled away by other companies and then ultimately he ended up working for hush and as, as a buyer and they, they created something that you think sounds fun.

They wanted to sit him in an RV and travel around the country. This was back before we really had the time to databases that we do now. So he got into a and RV for three years and city to city all over the United States, cataloging all of the stores and also selling gear DVDs and products like he noticed was as time went on, people were buying less and less.

And it wasn’t because the product wasn’t good. It was because they were all saying the same thing, which was, you know what, we’re not selling as many DVDs. People are getting it for free on the internet. And so Nate being very inquisitive, man, that he is started doing some research and discovered gene, yay. Everybody said, you know, oh, you have to be a lawyer. And he read through it. And he said, I don’t think you do. And so he likes his boss and said, how do you feel about me sending a few of these CMTA notices for our content and see what happened?

And his boss said, absolutely. And it just grew from there. Ultimately Nate’s always wanted to own and operate his own company. And so when he got to the point where the revenue, he was generating sites, doing the services Matt, he was making in that RV driving three years, he went to his boss and said, Hey, I want to take this. <inaudible> just go see your thing. That’s awesome.

That was very <inaudible>

Speaker 1 (8m 43s): Was pretty young when he started the company. I recall that. And you know, obviously piracy has gotten a lot worse since he started. Right.

Speaker 3 (8m 52s): Well, I don’t know. It depends on how you look at it, right? If talking about per capita, probably about the same, but there are more sites now, there are more types of sites. They’re more technology that makes it easier for pirates. You know, I think back in the day, they would have to really wretch their, their time and energy to create, you know, a pirated copy of something and then get it uploaded. Now everything is, we have all that technology on your phone.

So I think that it’s grown exponentially that because of those factors.

Speaker 1 (9m 31s): Yeah. Yeah. So what industry and anti-piracy changes have you seen since the company went into business?

Speaker 3 (9m 39s): I mean, for sure, the technology that we use to keep up with piracy, you know, back in the day, everybody got their fingers out and typed in the name of a brand and hosted, it popped up on Google. And then we would go to that site. Now we have all kinds of proprietary software, not the least of which is our digital fingerprinting, which makes it possible for us to combat piracy much faster than any human or team that humans could do.

The other thing we’ve seen is some of these sites that used to be row with piracy are becoming either a silliest or they’re becoming more legitimate and they’re responding to notices or creating channels and profiles for people so they can post legitimate content. So we’re seeing this site kindness and a little bit to the pressure of the DNP laws. Okay.

Speaker 1 (10m 39s): So how has the company adapted to these changes?

Speaker 3 (10m 44s): Well, first and foremost, like I said, the technology creating software that allows us to new, faster than pirate commune because there’s a few of us and there’s a bazillion of them, you know, we’ve hired on more employees. And also the relationships that we’ve built have made a different boat, different both on the side of clients, because we built this reputation that just brings us more and more clients every day, but also with insights and Torrance and file lockers, they have come to realize that we are forced.

We don’t just back down. And those relationships have become in some cases. I mean, listen, there’s, it takes a special personality for somebody to rip off somebody else’s content and monetize it. We’re not talking about the nice people in the world that built the relationship with these people in a way that does not fit that sort of behavior that shows them how they can legitimately make money. We have had some sites that we been instrumental, turning them from a pirate sites and affiliate sites.

So those relationships have helped us adapt as well. That’s

Speaker 1 (12m 3s): Funny. That’s phenomenal for your clients though. I mean, you take a negative and make it a positive.

Speaker 3 (12m 7s): Absolutely. I mean, you know, you can come out with a bull in a China shop and piss everybody off and there are some people there not to be negotiated with there in terms of pirates or pirate sites. There are some sites that are just discovering beer and people that, I mean, I’ll be honest with you until I met Nate. I didn’t know that when I opened something up on the internet and looked at it that it might not be from the source and somebody else might be monetizing it that never even occurred to me, just that educational component goes a long way with who don’t realize how bad they really are.

What they’re doing is really bad that their behavior is. And so we kind of convinced them that there’s a better way. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13m 1s): And a lot of it is just kids, ope uploading stuff. And you know, it’s, you might want to say it’s innocent, but it’s still,

Speaker 3 (13m 9s): I don’t know that a lot is frankly, I don’t have the stats. It says the demographics of the pirate. But I will say that it’s an, a multitude of factors. I mean, there are people who are in countries that are destitute and this is, you know, a way that they can make enough money to survive and it doesn’t make it right. But you know, they’re in countries that sort of turn a blind eye. Sometimes people are just not, not well, like you like it, like you said, it’s

Speaker 1 (13m 44s): Come to the earth. I mean, that reminds, that reminds me of a WK RP episode. I I’m sure. I’m sure you remember that show.

Speaker 3 (13m 53s): That is my witness. I swear to Bly.

Speaker 1 (13m 58s): I remember that when they, when they had it, when they had to bring up the band scum of the earth, that was funny, man. That was really funny. Oh God, everybody in radio loved that show. And a lot of newer people in radio went back and watched that show and said, oh, I know that guy. Oh, I know her all I know him. I just never saw anybody like Jennifer. But anyway, that’s unfortunately,

Speaker 3 (14m 20s): And the thing is, you know, just yesterday I had a young lady call. She had produced some content for a customer and the customer is now sharing the stuff everywhere and, and doing some things that are very nice. And you know, it it’s heartbreaking. I mean, she was in tears because it never occurred to her that she thought she was giving us this. Somebody, you know, selling it to somebody personally, shouldn’t think they weren’t going to take it and profit from it. And which Jesus really, as these people that are hired as they are being injured financially or personally.

Yep. So this is a personal mission for us. It’s an issue of consent. The staff. Oh,

Speaker 1 (15m 8s): Absolutely. Absolutely. So let’s say we meet at a show and I hope we do someday soon. And you have a chance to do your elevator pitch. Give me your elevator pitch.

Speaker 3 (15m 20s): Oh gosh. Do you want the elevator? All right. How long he, you has about four minutes, but I got all kinds of time. All right. All right. So here is how them piracy work. We have this multi-pronged approach to what we do first and foremost, we’re looking at places like search engines. So Google, for example, we’re looking 10 pages deep, which is about a hundred search results. And our goal is to make sure that legitimate content or brand, or indeed independent content producer is the top of those search results.

And the pirated content is getting pushed further and further down. Google has this sort of impossible to decipher algorithm, but the bottom line is they’re not looking at a site and saying, well, this is hired. And so that should be further down. They’re looking at getting results and, you know, seeing that search engine. So it’s a constant job. We do it every day. Next we’re looking at places like file offers and torrent. And just to give you an example, we added keep to share file locker.

We added them at the end of last summer and we have already removed and I want to make this clear. There’s a difference between revisiting and reporting till the cows come home, as we say down south, but removing them as another thing. So I am always talking about renewables, talked about reporting it’s called results. Thank you. So yes, from this one file author Kikuyu share Justin’s last summer, we have renewed almost 4 million friends.

Yeah. Daniel, we’re looking at social media, blogs forums. Those have become really rampant. As of late it’s kind of choice is yours for pirates to share content for people who don’t want to pay for their pharmacies. And then finally, and this is one of my favorite parts. We monitor kids sites using something called digital fingerprinting. And what digital fingerprinting is, is we’re taking tiny bits of visual data from a video.

We see not retain copies of the videos. I have one client that has 6 million on sorry, 7 million videos. And we don’t have room for that. We just keep these fingerprints. And we also fingerprinted over 200 million videos across more than 133 to sites and counting as we add more all the time. So our son plays the max game. Remember when you were a kid and with the card over one by one. And then we got a match that our system does all day long. And every time it gets me hit, it sends it to our tech team to verify that it has a high level of possibility to is an infringement.

And then it comes to our office here and we put our eyes on every single infringement to make sure that it’s not fair use. That is not a legitimate source that maybe somebody forgot to tell us about that it was their affiliate or one of their profiles is channel. And then the issue I notice. And when you put all of these things together, as you mentioned in the beginning, need have remixed over 120 million inferences from the internet. That’s

Speaker 1 (18m 45s): Crazy. That’s crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Why does studios and pay sites or anyone else for that matter need to use your services?

Speaker 3 (18m 55s): I mean, this is how I have always run my personal business. I like to make money. That’s what I, in any business, whether it’s real estate or securities or radio, I want to do the things that are going to profit me. If I have to take time, for example, out of my job to, you know, paint my office, that’s time taken away from what I do. I can pay somebody a fraction of what I make to paint the office.

So when it comes to piracy, first and foremost, there is not a human that can sign and remove massive amounts of infringement that we can hunting and pecking on the computer. You know, our proprietary software, digital fingerprinting is catch factor and any time, whether it is a video or a, an independent content producer takes time out of their day away from what they did to make money, which is selling content, they’re losing money.

And our, our prices are so ridiculously affordable, that it behooves them to hire us. Even if they hired 10 employees, they simply cannot do what we do as fast as what we use. We do not cost what one employee a month with Guzman’s list. Right,

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): Right now. And I’ve, I’ve always been with a mind, hire an expert. You know, if you want something done, right. Hire somebody who does it for a living, don’t try to fix your own car. Hell I don’t even wash my own car. So, you know, a higher PO cursor in Thailand doesn’t cost that much. But although,

Speaker 4 (20m 46s): Although, although, although my, all the, my wife

Speaker 1 (20m 48s): Did that as we’re recording this, my wife did get a quote from an attorney to file a lawsuit today for about 5,000 us dollars. And I basically told him to go told my wife to tell him to go fuck himself. But anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (21m 1s): And I’m not suggesting that people don’t be not be proactive in finding timestamp, right? The more we do this, the more we find niche sites, especially as we work with independent producers, you know, there’s sites that are, are, we’re not really the kind of site where you would find studios content on that as we work more and more with clip stores and more and more than you can for dancers, we’re finding all these new sites and we’re adding them. So it’s great when it, I have a producer saying, Hey, have you seen this side?

And the us is that it’s swore monitoring.

Speaker 1 (21m 35s): So how does you told me about digital fingerprinting? How does that benefit your club?

Speaker 3 (21m 42s): Well, it benefits them in a lot of ways. First of all, when you’re talking about monitoring 133 sites without digital fingerprinting, you’re talking about probably typing in your name or typing in the name of the scene and trying to find your content on the two site, one by one. Right. But when you have digital fingerprinting, what we have found is that it’s not like the pirates go, Hey, everybody here selling content, here’s their name?

Here’s the brand. Here’s where we found it. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. They don’t

Speaker 1 (22m 17s): Have a pie. They don’t have a pirates yellow page.

Speaker 3 (22m 20s): Well that, you know, you know, they say hotline with dildo or brunette with big boots. Yeah. Go ahead and type that in and see you bring up the digital fingerprinting de-anonymize in the video. It makes it possible for us to find content. And let me just tell you, it doesn’t matter if the content has been correct or Lurry, or they crossed the watermark. Desistance they’ll find it. It is really that good.

And so, yeah, I, I it’s, I apologize. I kind of forgot where I was going with all this, but the kind of technology that is impossible for a human to do on their own or with a team one by one

Speaker 1 (23m 7s): Jumps, the tracks constantly. How many employees do you have? By the way

Speaker 3 (23m 13s): We have a handful, we don’t have a lot. We rely very much on our proprietary software. It’s actually kind of mind boggling to think of how, and I’ve seen, you know, so-called competitors, it shows, and they have, you know, this entourage and people, and we run circles around them in terms of breakdowns. So we work smart and we have a passion for it. So we’re up at our desk by five most mornings and do some sort of work seven days a week.

Speaker 1 (23m 45s): I can hear the passion in your voice. Definitely. And having, having met, having met Nate, I know he’s passionate about it. And a lot of people in adult are passionate about piracy because it’s probably the number one hot button issue and in the entire industry, which was one of the reasons I wanted to have you on, how do you keep up with all the new sites and all the new types of sites in our industry,

Speaker 3 (24m 9s): We are constantly evolving our proprietary technology and methods. You can’t rest on your laurels in any technology industry, because it’s always changing and you know, like it or not piracy is this tech issues. So we’re constantly evolving our, our software, our AI, our methods, we classify sites and add them to our monitoring system, wherever we need to and listen to our content producers.

You know, it’s easy to get blinders on because you can find a site like a giant pile locker, and it’s like a rabbit hole. You can find so much content there. And so we have to listen to our producers, what they’re telling us, you know, Hey, you know, I call them white nights. These white nights sent me, you know, this blog, you know, I don’t know some of your blog that just popped up yesterday. And so doing those three things really helps us keep to the forefront.

And also our partner, AB registry, they do all of our tests and all of our AI, that guy has the biggest brain of anybody I’ve ever met. And, you know, he is constantly evolving and fine tuning his protocols and software and tech tricks to make sure that we’re able to keep up with everything. What’s

Speaker 1 (25m 36s): Good. Now why did take downs really matter

Speaker 3 (25m 41s): Really matter? And I, and I, let me just preface this by saying, it’s very frustrating when people take an app to set it, cause bros, you know me, this is like police work. It, this is Tampa maps. If somebody said to a law enforcement officer, well, you shouldn’t arrest a criminal. Cause there’s just another one around the corner. That’s the same thing with takedown. They do matter. First of all, time, you renew a pirated piece of content and infringement. You are keeping somebody else from profiting, from the work that you haven’t done.

And I don’t know about you, but I don’t like to work for free and then let somebody else have my money. This is true. I do it way too much. So I love that. I don’t. But anyway, go ahead. I mean, he had a client that signed up January of last year when we were still at their new shows and they were a little bit skeptical and they told us that at the end of the year, they have your sense to your efforts. And they attributed at least some of that, because look, we’re not entirely responsible for it.

A lot of people were second home watching adults content last year, they had their best year ever. They had been with another quote competitor for a year or two before in the first sound of infringements for them. So <inaudible> oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27m 11s): Absolutely. It was a rhetorical question. But do you, do you have to be a big studio or a big clip store to use your services?

Speaker 3 (27m 24s): You know, in the old days he did, because that was really what was out there. But we started beginning of last year, we started getting more and more calls from independent producers, you know, dinner on put sores that did not adequately protect their content. So we content for flips for sale. And I want this to give you an example. I started working for sale in August, September last year, and we’ve already removed over 3.2 million infringements for them.

So yes, the answer is in the past, you did, but we started getting more and more of these independent content producers who are with other stores. Yeah. Well, and I just have to tell you, I mean, I’m going to, well, I’ll talk about that in a minute about the stick on this topic, because I can go off on tangents all day.

Speaker 1 (28m 25s): We don’t, we there’s no time. There’s no time limit area. So, you know,

Speaker 3 (28m 30s): Clear my calendar. But to answer your question, we started getting more and more calls from these indie producers. And originally we were just, you know, they would call me, I would talk to them, we would sign them up. And we said, you know, these models and content producers, you’re already on your computer, let’s come up with something that make their life easier. So we came up with a website called clip century, E N T R Y, and free.com where independent content producers can go.

There’s a video of me telling them all about our services. There’s all kinds of facts and information on there. The coolest part about it is they can sign up. It’s super easy. They just need an email address and then make up their own password. But they can actually upload their content to that site. And we will fingerprint it for them. And we don’t keep those copies either. We just keep the fingerprints and they have a dashboard. They can see what they’ve uploaded already in case they forget, like, did I upload the scene or not?

They get in pretty much real-time we update updated about every 15 minutes while we take down for them as it happens, they get copies of every single notice we send out, they send me a question through their contact form or they can, if they found the URL that they want us to look at and verify and take down. So we create this website that makes it possible for independent contemporaries or the not just big videos or clips stores to take advantage of that we provide.

So if

Speaker 1 (30m 9s): You just do so if you’re, I don’t say just because they’re the backbone of the industry, but if you’re a performer, you can, you can do this.

Speaker 3 (30m 17s): Absolutely. And I mean, listen, you’re, there are performance that are just starting out. Maybe there’s a, you know, making this couple hundred bucks a month performance, they’re making, you know, seven figures they’re making big money. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (30m 37s): So what are some myths or misinformation about anti-piracy that you’d like to discuss?

Speaker 3 (30m 44s): Well, first of all, you know, you don’t have to be a lawyer. A lot of people, we are not lawyers by the way, here at taken higher season, we will refer you to somebody if you need one, but we did not do we do not practice law, so you don’t have to be a lawyer to do it. There’s what’s another myth. Oh, let me get right back up. Well, not really. There are very, very interested in this a long time.

So we are intrigued now. It is true that you might find your scene, we get it removed, and then it goes up somewhere else. Because if we’re going one pirate who wants to profit from your content, right? A lot of places do adhere to being repeat infringer policy. We get emails all the time from pirates, you know, please for, you know, I, I won’t do it again. You’re closing my account. Well, you know, you’d have three strikes, but you’re just out.

That is not our experience that he just goes right back up. It may go up on the same site with another pirate. It may go up on another side, but we don’t find it. It just pops right back up. That’s not our experience. I’ve heard say that the DNC doesn’t work well. It’s worked for us more than 120 50 million times. And we have been really instrumental in, for example, building evidence for losses. I tell all my clients and potential clients, we are not a deity or not magic and not force a site, this posted in Russia to remove their content or a site that you know, should be removing your content.

That doesn’t. So what we can do is we can build the evidence for our crimes, which we have done. We have been instrumental in not just getting sites shut down, but also losing their with peanut processors, April 11 crashes. I don’t find a positive every time that happened. Yeah. So that’s that’s for me, pretty much the biggest myth or the biggest message.

I already have somebody protecting my content. You know, I’ll give you an example. I’ll meet them being with w we’re talking with a clip store last early, early last year and a more up and down. Oh no. We’re using the service and aging quote on upload, which is a whole nother thing. Date, go ahead and rabbit rabbit, go ahead and say it.

You know, we’re not, we’re not limited.

Speaker 1 (33m 33s): You can say, you can tell, you can say it’s bullshit. I can tell you. I can tell you’re thinking it.

Speaker 3 (33m 38s): Well, here’s the thing. I’m not saying that that technology doesn’t work, but if you are w you know, we call it having it, the thoughts box, the hand house. If a site can turn that system on and off, then you are allowing piracy. But just to give an example, need to test for this door on just 5% of their content on just one site that supposedly has this upload service and down and have thousands of infringement on that one site in one day.

Yeah, that’s me. That’s a myth too. When somebody, you know, looking, keep it from going live. I had, yes.

Speaker 1 (34m 27s): I can’t imagine why can’t okay. So I said it it’s bullshit. So why can’t people just do their own antivirus?

Speaker 3 (34m 37s): I mean, they can, the question is can they do it at the level of success and thoroughness and as inexpensively as we can. And that answer is no, but you can go onto Google and search their name, or go into the size and third spared me or hot blonde or hotline, and they can find it. Now we have more relationships with sites that have learned that we will escalate.

You’ll get cooperation. So if Jane Doe’s then notice, maybe they’ll take it down. Maybe they won’t probably get clients that say, I’ve been sending notices for four weeks and they’re not doing anything. And we issue an Edison. It comes down sometimes just the reputation and the relationship makes, you know, at different. And like we talked about earlier, you know, why then money and time that you could be producing content, which is what does it make money?

Or even, even if it’s not producing content, you know, going on social media and advertising your stuff or your

Speaker 1 (35m 52s): Marketing, or yeah, yeah. Dealing with you’re dealing with your affiliates or doing any one of how many different things site operators

Speaker 3 (36m 0s): Do the money. Exactly. Because he did better. We could do it faster and we can do more.

Speaker 1 (36m 7s): Like I said, I don’t fix my own car. God knows I don’t. My wife would never let me. Okay. So what do you do when a site says, Nope, now I know I got this DMCA, but now I’m not taking it down.

Speaker 3 (36m 21s): So I love this. So look full disclosure. If your stuff is on pirate day, we can get it down. Even Disney cannot get their content down from pirate bay and you know, how much money and fall Disney has. So there are a couple of sites that do not comply, period, no matter what. However, there are thousands of sites that do comply. And one of the things that we do emphasize should have taken down content and they haven’t, or for example, just recently, we had a site that they were taking down a video, but then under a different URL, you know, for cats.

And we called them on it. We started in geneticists to his proper, I’m sorry, his web hosts. And let me just tell you, he fell in line real fast. When the web host told them they were going to dump them. We’ll also, like I said earlier, you know, we’ll be your payment processor and I’ve got a nice, except not for a minute here. You know, we like to speak truth and piracy. One of the things that we find those frustrating and sad is many industry company are part of problems.

So as an example, there is a streaming, not a streaming site, a site, a cam site that advertises on so many pirate sites to be all about feminism. And you can

Speaker 1 (38m 2s): Call, you can call them out if you want. It doesn’t bother me.

Speaker 3 (38m 7s): See that because I like to be Pollyanna a little bit, but I’ll, you know, it’d be very easy to research where people can call me directly if they want to know. But I will tell you at that a month ago, Nate sent them an email and said, Hey man, this is a pirate site and you don’t comply. Your ads are on every single one of these videos. And so to their credit, they at least temporarily stopped the ads on that one too site.

Well, we sent them a total of 12 emails with 12 different sites that were doing the same thing. And it was like crickets. So there are people who are profiting from these producers by taking a percentage of what they produce on their site would be back there. If their website, if somebody can use their site for Cammie, you should get a piece of that profit. But then in addition to that, there, those producers there’s deaf getting ripped.

When they do a session, the guys are ripping the sessions, putting them up online. And that same campsite is sitting at the dance of piracy. And this is my, this is my favorite. There is a founder who recently started a, an anti-piracy service. Now the clothes store already pay a percentage of the performers profit. They actually just increased it recently.

And instead of them offering anti-piracy services like clips for sailor, I want clips. Instead of them making that part of their, their businesses sense to help profit themselves in their producers. They started as desperate service that people have to pay forward. And it is a modicum of the amount of services that we provide. So it’s, to me, it’s very,

Speaker 1 (40m 6s): I guess you’re not going to, I guess you’re not going to get that client.

Speaker 3 (40m 10s): Well, I, you know what, it’s fine because it’s knee, we turned down business. I mean, I did it, I did it tonight. We had an opportunity to work with growth porn. We turned that down because it was the stuff on their site was questionable at best. And I recorded it. So you don’t just find everything yet, because money is more important people. We, you know, we turn away business when it’s not right, but I think it’s patently offensive for somebody to profit from somebody’s content and then charge them a fee on top of what they’re already charging them for their profit sharing to protect that content.

I just, I just think that’s pretty right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40m 59s): That’s that’s down there. So what are you, what are you most proud of? Business-wise

Speaker 3 (41m 7s): First and foremost, it’s gotta be our integrity when we say something it’s true. We don’t mislead anybody. I just saw a site the other day. They claim to have 100% removal rate and you can go know, should

Speaker 1 (41m 27s): I, should I, should I say it again? No, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (41m 29s): Yeah. So they, you know, there’s, there’s different pockets of right. There’s the search engines and Torrance and file lockers and social media and twos, right? Even if you just list to this company, Google transparency report, their removal rate is 30%, but they have no problem putting on their home page 100% room or the latest thing. This is my favorite. We’ve saved $8 million for each. I can’t quantify that. That’s not even saying.

So the first and foremost I’m most proud of our integrity. Second of all, you know, as I mentioned, we, we do anti-piracy for a couple of clips, stores already clips for sale. And I want clips. I have people that will sometimes come to me because they don’t really they’re new, or they don’t really know, or maybe they, something came shouldn’t have come or should have come down, but didn’t, and they’ll send to us and go, Hey, you know, I saw you and I, I produce content on one of these two sides.

And I say, Hey, man, you’re already paying enough to get money to these sites. I’m not going to sign you up, but here’s my email address. Here’s my phone number. If there’s something that you need done and it’s not getting done, reach out to me, I’ll make it happen. So unlike that company, that doesn’t think anything that’s profiting from their producers and then also charging them for piracy. You know, we don’t, we don’t double bill people.

And also I love proving the naysayers wrong. There’s there’s a couple of people that in the beginning of Nate’s journey with take them higher, risky, they say, oh, he just has an impossible job ahead of him. Or, you know, anti-piracy, that’s not even gonna last if you’re, you know, we’ve grown exponentially every year and we do more anti-piracy every year. And so I’m kind of proud when, when we, when people that’s

Speaker 1 (43m 37s): Awesome. Well, Hey, Reba, I’d like to thank you for being our guests today on adult side broker tuck. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do the scan really soon.

Speaker 3 (43m 46s): I would love that. I think there’s a lot more layers to peel back and thank you for everything you do in general.

Speaker 1 (43m 54s): It’s, it’s a pleasure always for a fellow radio person.

Speaker 3 (43m 59s): Maybe we need, we need to pull out the old headphones and mikes and, and do another radio CISM time. I’m down.

Speaker 1 (44m 6s): My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sales price of a website. Number one is normally profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area.

I’ve also seen valuations of one time. If the profit is taking a nosedive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and review traffic are the most valuable tube. Traffic, the least valuable is the traffic reliable and sustainable. What is the traffic history?

In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as of profit and the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website is the domain of.com or something else? Dot com is still king. What is its Alexa rating? How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important.

Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it, and how much time would be involved? What is the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week? How to buy a website and next week we’ll be talking to mark prints and Robert Warren from too much.net.

Speaker 0 (46m 4s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Reba Rocket. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Aerie Saunders of Webcam Startup.

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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re offering a rapidly growing hair shaving site, and the price for this site has just been reduced. The owner needs a fast sale for a new project.

He’s working on the site, shows women getting their heads shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it’s much easier to promote than most adults sites. The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they’re getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site. That’s a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects.

This is essentially the brains of the whole operation. It handles the billing and rebilling user information and video displays. There’s also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales. The first month alone, there is no paid advertising. They go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos and social media. The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow.

They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. This site has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars. There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to on after the sale. This great site is now available for only $399,000. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today, an adult site broker talk is Arie Saunders of webcam startup Arie.

Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk, thank

Speaker 2 (3m 19s): You for having me. I’m so excited to be here. It’s

Speaker 1 (3m 22s): A pleasure to have you. Okay. So Arie is a 24 year old performer and adult industry blogger. She CEO of webcam startup, very impressive. W C S U news, the cam land podcast, and many other sister sites. Her specialty is in model referrals, generating thousands of signups for various sites. Over the years, the specialty stems from the information that she wished she had as a new performer herself back in 2015, webcam startup is a comprehensive adult industry blog resource and guide for tips and tricks to succeeding in the indie adult industry.

In addition to helpful guides, informational videos, and regularly provided news on their platform. WC S U news. There are also directories created to assist new performers and navigating the important features on sites that they sign up for. The entire site is free to access and prioritizes model feedback directly from performers, as well as from social media to compile information, to help all performers succeed. You can find them@webcamstartupdotcomandwcsunews.com.

So, first of all, airy, besides what I just mentioned, maybe you can tell me a little more about webcam startup. So

Speaker 2 (4m 46s): That was a great introduction. I wish you could introduce the site all the time. I’d be

Speaker 1 (4m 51s): Happy to, I, I’m not too expensive.

Speaker 2 (4m 55s): So what cam startup is a whole network of different sites. We’ve got our news site, we have our podcast, we have our site specializing in webmaster information and phone sex. Basically we have a whole network of things that apply to the indie adult industry and the most important thing about what PM startup and what it is, is providing free information where it’s very hard to find niche information about certain things that are clearly written out.

And you don’t have to like go through a bunch of videos to figure out what’s going on. We try to break it down as easy as possible and provide it free of charge and well, mostly free of charge. We do use affiliate links and referral links. So the sites are paying us basically. Well,

Speaker 1 (5m 45s): I hope so. You’re not just, you’re not just doing this out of the goodness of your heart then. Huh? So I

Speaker 2 (5m 51s): Was doing it out of the goodness of my heart. And that is how I originally connected with webcam startup. I did invent the idea, but yeah, now I get paid for it, thankfully. So it’s definitely better now, Hey,

Speaker 1 (6m 6s): There you go. Better, better to be paid than not to be paid. I’ve noticed that over the years, that’s something I’ve learned as time’s gone on. So why did webcam startups start the cam land podcast and WC S U news? So

Speaker 2 (6m 21s): Webcam startup has always been about having guides and we originally covered news as well, but we noticed a lot of keyword cannibalization within our content. And we wanted to make sure that performers were able to find the content they were looking for easily and didn’t have to sift through news. And we also find a lot of the mainstream networks that models follow like AVN and expat as well. They do cover the events. They don’t really go in depth into it.

It’s a lot of crossover between mainstream and indie. So what we’ve tried to do is focus entirely on the indie industry, which brought about WCSC news and the Camlin podcast for people who don’t want to scroll through a site and read what news is currently going on.

Speaker 1 (7m 10s): Okay. Now I’ve heard the term indie cam industry a lot. What’s the differentiation between the Indy cam industry and the rest of the cam industry. So

Speaker 2 (7m 23s): The biggest identifier for me for Indy is that you manage yourself and generally it you’ll be, you know, doing it from home. Your home is your home base. You probably do your own editing, your own scheduling. If you do collaborate with people, you’re setting that up by yourself. No, one’s taking a cut from you. Okay. So that’s my main way I identify it.

Speaker 1 (7m 46s): So really it’s, it’s independent models. It’s not models that are, that are working for studios. Yes.

Speaker 2 (7m 53s): While we do try to cover some studio news, it seems like they’re very secretive sometimes. So it’s a little harder to get in there. We do try to cover some of that as well. We do cover how to break up with your studio if you ever want to, because I personally almost always suggest being independent if you have the ability to sure. So yeah, we’ve gone into that a little bit. I think being independent is a huge thing. And if you don’t need a location or equipment provided, it’s definitely what I recommend.

Speaker 1 (8m 24s): Why, why should somebody be independent as opposed to, to having a place to go to work?

Speaker 2 (8m 30s): Having the place is pretty much the only benefit. There’s a overwhelming amount of virtual studios that have started up that guarantee things like traffic and other various things that they can’t really prove to you, that they’re offering you. And you can do a lot of the things they offer yourself. If you’re willing to put the time into researching and building up your audience and stuff like that. I, I don’t know some studios with the physical location. It’s awesome.

But it’s overwhelmingly virtual these days, at least in my area of the world. I’m in the U S

Speaker 1 (9m 8s): Yep. Yeah. We just sold, we just sold a virtual studio, so I was kind of going, oh, okay. So what are the benefits to performers finding information on webcam startup?

Speaker 2 (9m 23s): Oh, I went into it a little bit before, but it’s obviously that it’s free. I mean, you can look up stuff offered by other performers and there’s, you know, there’s people offering classes that you’re paying 50 to a hundred dollars for, or these like special guides that they send you in a Google drive and they’re charging you X amount for it. And I think my favorite part of it is that being a performer myself, I know I’m not charging performers for this information. It’s free of charge and you can also suggest ideas to us.

So say, you’re like, Hey, I need a guide on how to do the underwater fetish. That’s just an example because Katie did an excellent article on it. The other day we will research it. We will hire performers to actually give us their feedback or write up an article for us that are experienced and we will put it out there for free. And I think that is just super important to have out there because it’s very hard to find free information, especially on niche topics like fetishes or specific sites.

Speaker 1 (10m 27s): Yeah, no, the fact it’s a free resource and other people are charging that’s, that’s a, that’s a tremendous benefit for people. You know, it’s interesting. I spoke to one gentleman in Europe who was talking about the, you know, the fact that models can be affiliates. And I was like, wow, I never knew that. Maybe tell me a little bit about that. So I

Speaker 2 (10m 55s): Always tell every single model that isn’t an affiliate already. Like, you need to be an affiliate because models have the network for it. We have the traffic, you can make friends with fellow performers and we also have the customer traffic, right? So if you’re already promoting your links for your websites, there is no reason you can’t swap that link out for an affiliate link, a referral link and just be making extra profit from it. Or if your friend wants to sign up and you’re helping them get signed up and helping them with tips on how to succeed on a site, why not have them sign up under your link so you can directly see how your help is benefiting them and their success then pays you.

It totally makes sense. And it’s so important for models to do.

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): Yeah, no, absolutely. Now does web webcam startup having the benefits for studios or webmasters or is it only for performs? So

Speaker 2 (11m 51s): We definitely do have some benefits, studios and web masters. We have our sister site camming and webmasters and our original creator, Nate Hammond. He was actually an SEO expert. So we have things that can assist pretty much every branch of the industry. Well, that’s not my specialty. We obviously do have the guides up that people can look to and I’m, I’m still trying to become an expert myself. So I can also help a little more than your average, Joe.

Speaker 1 (12m 21s): Yeah. Nate’s a brain on SEO. I mean, he, he gave me so much help and I’m, I’m an SEO and technical dummy, you know, I, I don’t know a damn thing about any of that. I guess I could study it a little more, but I was always like, Nate, Nate, help me. What should I do here? And it’s really funny. I’ll tell you a funny story. I have all these domains. I’m up to 71 now that, yeah, that are well known. That’s just related to adult site broker. Okay.

I’ve like cornered the market and well, there’s, there’s, there’s stuff I’m going to do ahead, but that’s another story. Anyway, I, I put like a few lines of text on all of them and I was pointing them to my, my site and I said, what do you think Wayne? W what do you think Nate? And he’s like, no, take him down. Take him down. I go, he goes, the search engine was going to ban you. So it’s like, okay, I will. Yeah. So I just forwarded them. But yeah, I, I almost made a brutal mistake, but our, our, our natural SEO is very good because adult site broker, obviously, you know, that’s like a big search.

So anyway, but yeah, Nate, Nate’s been just phenomenal and I’ve been aware of the company since day one. So, so how did, how did you become a CEO by the way? So

Speaker 2 (13m 44s): I became CEO last year in January. Nature’s had a lot going on and we’d already gone into the partnership and he decided that he needed to take some time off. And it was only supposed to be a few months, but he, he never came back.

Speaker 1 (14m 3s): He’s he’s, he’s enjoying the checks.

Speaker 2 (14m 6s): Yes, he is. And I will have everybody know I do the accounting and he does still get paid. I’m not ripping Nate off, but he he’s great when I need him for anything technical, you can still log in and help me out with stuff like that. He is our behind the scenes guru for keeping the site functional at the very least. And I will admit, I have broken the site at least three times in the past year and a half. And he has come to the rescue,

Speaker 1 (14m 34s): Join the club. I break my side all the time. That’s what that’s well, that’s what devs are for man. You know, that’s what those are for. I got a guy. Oh, well, he always has been, no, I I’ve got a guy working full time now because it’s, it’s gotten to point where it’s necessary because we have an affiliate program and we’ve got a podcast and we’re about to launch a, well, by the time this runs we’ll have launched our marketplace, you know, we’re recording it like right before it’s going to launch.

And it’s a lot to do. There’s just a lot to do, but yes, I’m very good at breaking my site. So all of us tech dummies are my dear. So, so talk to me. Okay. So you’re 24 years old. Okay. You said last January, you became CEO. Yes. So you were 23. Talk about the journey. I I’m, I’m blown away. I really am. And I told you even before, when, before we started the interview, that I’m pretty blown away by you and your abilities at your tender years.

You’ve obviously been doing this all your adult life, been in the industry. Talk about the journey from starting as a performer to where you are today. So

Speaker 2 (15m 53s): When I started as a performer, I was actually still in high school. I was working full time while in high school. And I just, I hated my job. I was an assistant manager at a Dunkin donuts. I just needed more money. I was living with my girlfriend at the time. And I, I was just having a terrible time. I lived in New Jersey and I don’t know if you’re familiar with like the price of the states and everything, but New Jersey is like the most expensive state

Speaker 1 (16m 24s): Way more than way more than California. I don’t think so. Oh,

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): It’s up there. It’s gotta be like number two or number three with California is number one. It’s seriously up there. The taxes are ridiculous, but I just needed some money and I needed to be able to support myself and pay my bills and actually get a jumpstart in life. And the minimum wage at Dunkin donuts was not doing it. And

Speaker 1 (16m 50s): The coffee’s great, right. Getting

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): Free lattes on the daily. That is a benefit. I do spend a lot of money on coffee now. So it’s like, maybe I shoulda just kept that on the side, but I got started. And my first cam show was a joke I logged in and my room was a mess. And I was like, what am I even doing three days after I turned 18? And I’m just sitting in my computer chair, singing songs. And I got a bunch of viewers and it just, I never left after that. I loved the environment and I loved performing and connecting with people.

And I had a lot of performers along the way who I reached out to who helped me. And eventually I just kind of became like really invested in learning more about the industry, trying out new sites. And I was one of the first performers to use indie bill Preston piece to Indy bill

Speaker 3 (17m 48s): Now shut down. Yeah. I, I actually brokered it, but anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (17m 54s): So Nate was looking for performers to do reviews on various sites and he reached out to any bill and was like, Hey, send me one of your performers who can write a sentence that is legible. And that is how we got put into contact. And I just kept bringing up more suggestions to him like, Hey, have you thought about doing a review on this or covering this? And he was like, you know, what do whatever you want, I’ll pay you for it. And then eventually he brought me on as a partner because I was managing a lot of the communications on the site and it just kept going from there.

I mean, I, it kind of got like pushed into my lap, not to say I don’t love it, but we just slowly started to pass it off to me. And it felt very natural. And I love being in this position. I always loved writing and journalism and to do it in a niche that I now work in and specialize in is awesome.

Speaker 1 (18m 53s): Well, it’s, it’s pretty obvious. I hear the enthusiasm and it’s obvious. You’re very good at it. So it sounds like you’ve taken it to the next level. I kind of hate that saying, but it sounds like you definitely have. So what type of adult websites are showing growth? According to webcam startup stats. So

Speaker 2 (19m 12s): Fan clubs are all the rage right now. I can tell you only fans in particular, it’s crazy. The growth there is outstanding. And they, they know that, which is why they changed their referral program to be a year instead of lifetime. Got a lovely Ella. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19m 36s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): That hurt me a little bit. That hurt me right in the heart, Leo, but it’s okay. But fan clubs are where it’s at. If you’re joining the industry or even if you’re in the industry already and you don’t have a fan club already just open one, the people

Speaker 1 (19m 53s): Love it. So you call, you call the clip sites, fan clubs. So

Speaker 2 (19m 57s): Fan clubs are different than clips sites.

Speaker 1 (20m 1s): Tell me, tell me about it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (20m 5s): So fan clubs are generally something that we’ll have a subscription and it’s going to have multiple performers on it. It’s not dedicated to one performer, right? So only fans is a fan club model. Centro is something different. We call those, I guess, AMS type sites. And then we have <inaudible>

Speaker 1 (20m 26s): Stands for adult membership site.

Speaker 2 (20m 31s): So we then have clip sites, which you can offer individual videos for sale. And there may be a subscription feature, but it’s not going to be the primary focus. So many VINs is a clip site. They have a membership, but it’s not the primary focus of many beds. And then your camming site, you cam on there, and that’s the primary focus. So we kind of organize it by whatever, either the site started as, or what they specialize

Speaker 1 (20m 55s): In. Okay. So webcam startup focuses not only on the camps, but also the fan clubs and the clip sites, right. And the phone

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Sex sites, and pretty much everything like every single adult site, we have something on it. Even the adult social networks that you wouldn’t even really think of they’re on there. Okay.

Speaker 1 (21m 17s): All right. So what advice would you give to adult bloggers looking to get into affiliate marketing and actually make money? So first

Speaker 2 (21m 26s): You need to figure out what you want to target. Do you want to target model referrals or do you want to target customer referrals? And obviously customer referrals are going to be easier. Most sites will provide you with content to even promote, to get people to sign up. And if you’re waving someone’s boobs in someone’s face, like that’s getting signups is not super hard. If you have the ability to create a website and market that website. So outside of deciding what you’re going to be marketing to do some research on SEO, that is the biggest thing.

And that will put you ahead of everybody else, because you can pay hundreds upon hundreds of dollars for traffic, but nothing will ever be the ability to organically bring viewers to your site with SEL.

Speaker 1 (22m 15s): Hm. Interesting. Yeah. I’m a man. And you know, when women waved their boobs at me, I kind of do whatever they want. So anyway, yeah. I got to tell my wife to do that more often. So tell me more about the webcam start-up team. So

Speaker 2 (22m 37s): Our team is comprised of contributors that will just contribute randomly. But our main base is myself, Katie Churchill, who is our staff news writer.

Speaker 3 (22m 48s): She does our interviews. Just talk to you recently. Yeah, she

Speaker 1 (22m 53s): Did. And I got to tell you she was delightful. She’s

Speaker 2 (22m 57s): Wonderful. She like her confidence and her ability to just be honest is what drew me to her. Like she tells it how it is and I love her for that. And then we have Alec Hardy. He is our sex toy specialist, our male performers specialists. We find it very important to cover the male and female sides of the industry. So we have him there and he covers a great deal of stuff for male cameras and clip reformers.

And then we regularly receive contributions from Carrie Anthony, Greg Busyman and just various contributors. We pay a hundred dollars per pop per article. So like we, we definitely get our fair share of contributors and it’s super awesome.

Speaker 1 (23m 44s): That’s great. Now, are you currently looking for more contributors? Always,

Speaker 2 (23m 50s): If you have a topic you want to pitch us on the contact form it, my assistant will forward it to me and I will let you know if I want to run with it. If you search on the site and you can’t find what you’re looking for and you want to write about it, let me know. We’re currently looking for more people with like MFC experience and chatter bait experience, all the token sites. Me and Katie are a little introverted, so we’re not on the table. Oh

Speaker 1 (24m 17s): Yeah. I can really tell you guys are, are introverted. Yeah. It’s very obvious. Yeah. Okay. So do you prefer working on the B2B side of the industry or the performer side? So I

Speaker 2 (24m 32s): Love the B2B side, but a lot of the people on the B2B side are, I like to call them dude bros, which is probably okay.

Speaker 1 (24m 45s): Tell me a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (24m 48s): So the affiliate side of things and the business side of things is not heavily female dominant to begin with. And then if there are females in that side, generally they aren’t performers. So I find that a lot of communications on the business side of things, they don’t go that well. It’s gotten to the point where I’ve considered creating a male persona for it.

Speaker 1 (25m 13s): Okay. Okay. What’s your, what’s your male name?

Speaker 2 (25m 17s): Sometimes. I just pretend to be Nate and it works. People are like, oh my gosh, Nate, you’re typing so differently. You’re actually making sense. Cause he loves to send cryptic emails. Yes,

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): Yes. I know. On about 12 in a row. So what she, she laughs but she knows it’s true. It’s like, he’ll, he’ll start, he’ll start a, a thought. And then he sends another one and then he sends another one and then he sends

Speaker 2 (25m 41s): It over. I learned to decipher it. It’s a skill of mine. That’s how I’ve gotten this far.

Speaker 1 (25m 45s): Well, I think it’s, he’s used to chatting. So when he emails, he kind of emails like he chats. That’s pretty funny. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 54s): I just talked to him on Facebook messenger now, so I can just react to his messages. Hmm. That’s a good idea. Yeah. I

Speaker 1 (26m 1s): Should have probably done that because my inbox was just getting jammed and by the way, do tell them to email me because I miss him very much. Okay. So please tell him that because I really miss Nate. I’d love to, I’d love to connect. What advice would you give new models? Just getting into performing. I would

Speaker 2 (26m 19s): Say do your research. Don’t go into it naive. Don’t look at the first few rows on the campsite you want to try and don’t look at just the homepage on eclipse that you want to try. Look at the people on, you know, the last pages, see how long they’ve been on there. See how much time they’ve dedicated and try to keep in mind. It’s not instant money. A lot of people get into the industry with the idea that they’re going to instantly make thousands of dollars.

And we see the memes and the jokes like did you hear poor? Pup is paying millions for a video of you and your man. Like they’re not. And you got to come into it knowing that’s not what you’re going to get. You’re going to have to work hard. You’re gonna have to invest time. And even then it, you might not make thousands of thousands of dollars. It just might be a little side hustle. So you’d have to come in with your expectations set,

Speaker 1 (27m 17s): Right? Yeah. I think people in our industry in general think that like there’s gold in them there Hills and, and they, you know, they’ll start a site. Okay. And then they expect the whole world to come to them and give them money. And I’m sure models are exactly the same way. Oh

Speaker 2 (27m 39s): Yeah. You think that there’s this taboo with adult content. So you think that if you’re willing to show all this, that you deserve X amount, but at the end of the day, there’s always going to be someone online, giving away the same thing you’re giving away at a cheaper price. So you have to learn to market yourself, define your price and just become comfortable with how you’re going to market yourself. And the amount of time you’re going to have to put in before you actually see conversions that are making a decent amount of money.

Speaker 1 (28m 13s): And that brings up a good question. Obviously with the pandemic, there’s gotta be a pandemic related question because while there just does the number of performers on, on sites, like only fans is just massive now. Okay. How has that affected the market for performers? The

Speaker 2 (28m 36s): Performer turnover is absolutely horrendous. So it’s affected performers in a way where you’re losing a lot of trust with customers recently because they expect to buy from someone and then that person could not be there the next day. So you’re having to work a little bit harder to connect with your customer and kind of show them that if you’re offering like a membership or it’s something that’s not a one and done, but that you’re going to be there the next day posting and they’re going to get their money’s worth.

And of course, yeah, there’s always going to be like some customer that is just a pain and is like, oh,

Speaker 1 (29m 17s): Tomorrow, I can’t imagine that

Speaker 2 (29m 20s): Tomorrow. You won’t even be here. Give me my money’s worth now, but it’s definitely spiked dramatically due to the pandemic. But along with that comes the appreciation from customers who see models, working through the pandemic that haven’t stopped and have been around and want to keep supporting them. So it’s a double-edged sword, but it’s, it’s definitely a problem that over-saturation sucks. And I believe there was a study done that said like cam performers, the average cam performer stays around for like three weeks.

Wow. It’s gotta be worse during the pandemic.

Speaker 1 (29m 57s): Well, yeah. And they, because like you said, they expect to get rich in a week

Speaker 2 (30m 1s): And then they log on and have three viewers and they’re sorely disappointed.

Speaker 1 (30m 6s): So how much are you still performing by the way?

Speaker 2 (30m 9s): So I’m mostly doing offline stuff. Now I do fan clubs, clips. I actually recently got payment processing on my site because I’m trying to bring people over to me directly rather than through middlemen, because I get fired up about a lot of issues happening on clip sites more than I should. So I’ve, I’ve pretty much been focusing on that. I do some Twitch streams every once in a while, but I am planning on coming back to cam once things slow down on the new side of the industry throughout the summer, because you know, summer slump is notorious for being a slow time to your sleep sometimes.

Speaker 1 (30m 47s): Hm. Okay. Well you’re 20 you’re 24. So I’m sure you still have a lot of that youthful energy. So that’s a beautiful thing. And at 63 I need my beauty rest. God knows. So how do you feel your experience as a performer gives you better insight for adult blogging? Obviously

Speaker 2 (31m 8s): I’m dealing with it firsthand. My social media feed, isn’t other bloggers, it’s performers. It’s people. I consider my peers and my friends and people who have opinions on things going on. And I get to see it directly from their point of view. And then I get to log in to these sites and experience it myself. And it’s something that is great for adult blogging because basically I’m not bullshitting like a lot of people that you can type a review about a site and say it’s 10 out of 10.

Great. But do you actually log in and try to sell content on it and make money on it? Or are you just saying it’s great because you logged in and your affiliate platform looked awesome. So that’s very helpful having not only the experience of the affiliate side, but getting to see how other performers feel and how I feel myself logging into a site is super useful.

Speaker 1 (32m 5s): Now over the years, a lot of people in the adult industry have talked about how the, the, the affiliate model is dead. At least we’re pay sites are concerned. We talked a little bit about affiliates, but how important do you think affiliate and referral programs are in this industry?

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): I think that they are very important. I think, especially for people referring customers to the site that they can make or break a site because you’ll see the number one campsite is chatter bait. And it has been for some time now, and it’s their affiliate program. They offer anyone who converts a customer 20% of token purchases for life. And it’s a beautiful form of tracking. Not for, not for one year.

Oh my God. Don’t get me started on only fans. I could talk about that for days. Chatter bait is great because they know that giving these links to their performers, their performers are going to post these links and people are actually going to click them because people are visiting chatter bait because they want to see these hot girls, right? So the hat or hot guys, or a hot bays, they have these hot people posting their links for them. That’s basically, you know, that’s advertising.

They didn’t have to pay out of pocket for, they’re only paying based on conversion. And that is an excellent system to have.

Speaker 1 (33m 31s): Right. Right. Yeah. I, you know, I mean, you, if you it’s, it’s an old Axiom, but if you take care of people, people will take care of you. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (33m 44s): When I post a link personally, am I going to post a link to a site that’s going to pay me like 50% and nothing extra, or am I going to post a link to the site that will give me like 20%, whether they spend it on me or someone else just getting them to the site is what I needed to do. Obviously I’m going to go with the extra 20% who

Speaker 1 (34m 3s): Wouldn’t absolutely. Now talk about the future plans for webcam startup, or at least anything you can divulge without killing me.

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): So Kim’s startup is obviously going to just continue growing forever as the industry does, we will keep covering important news. We will keep covering important site updates and we are looking to expand even more. We are expanding our fetish lists right now to include more information about fetishes. And we have just a lot of projects that we want to get started on. Katie has started this amazing interview series, which you guys should definitely check out because we,

Speaker 1 (34m 43s): Because I’m on it.

Speaker 2 (34m 45s): Yeah, exactly. I’m on it to me. And you

Speaker 3 (34m 48s): Were actually really good.

Speaker 2 (34m 51s): So that is definitely the biggest project for webcam. Startup is going to be getting to know people in the industry, more including site owners, Cypress brokers, performers, anything like that. So if you want to be interviewed, you know, reach out to us, check that out, but basically webcam start-up. Our big plans are to evolve with the industry and we are looking forward to the next year, seeing what happens, what comes out of the pandemic once in-person events start again.

So I’m just looking forward to it. I’m going to have to start like another webinar or something because I do that all the time. I just love product.

Speaker 1 (35m 31s): Yeah. Well, I can tell you don’t like sleep. So it’s, it seems we share a passion dogs and you told me you have six and you beat me. We only have four. We were thinking about adopting a puppy, but we were worried about what it was going to do for our old guy. Who’s on the sofa near me right now. So how do your pups and Richard, my

Speaker 2 (35m 54s): Pups enrich my life in so many ways. I mean, I don’t have hobbies outside of work. So they’re the only thing really that can pull me away from the computer. When one other cute little faces comes up next to my chair and it’s like, all right, let’s go play fetch. You know, I can’t say no to that. So they, they get me out of my, my little cave in my computer room and get me to go outside. And I got quite a few of them through fostering. Yeah. Which has also been just an excellent experience.

Seeing one of my dogs in particular, he was thrown from a vehicle who had yeah. Full body of road rash. He was 40 pounds and he was not supposed to be seeing him grow and become healthy was just so wonderful. And just the love that they give and the trust that they gained back over time is awesome.

Speaker 1 (36m 49s): Yeah. It’s wonderful. Yeah. We’ve got three rescues and a Pekinese, but we won’t talk about that. Thanks. Thank you to my wife. So besides the dogs, what do you like to do in your spare time? I do quite

Speaker 2 (37m 2s): A bit of writing. I am a published author outside of the porn world. I do mostly poetry. I’ve entered quite a few poetry contests and placed in a few. So yeah, that’s my main gig besides this. I just bought a house actually. So my most recent thing is like living in home Depot and doing home projects.

Speaker 1 (37m 26s): Oh, that’s, that’s, that’s funny. Well, Hey, airy. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adults at broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon. Of course.

Speaker 2 (37m 37s): Thank you so much for having me

Speaker 1 (37m 40s): Again. It’s a pleasure to have you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well is your content been protected from piracy and what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates? The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be.

What’s your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site. Do you use billing or affiliate software like gnats? What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day?

Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend a producer by the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your site? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all of the websites you’re selling. And in addition to any domains that come along with the sale, is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information had them sign a non-disclosure agreement.

If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don’t know. Adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours. And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price and any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course, we’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week we’ll be talking to Reba Rocket from Takedown Piracy.

Speaker 0 (40m 5s): And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Aerie Saunders of Webcam Startup. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Maria of Best Studios.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker. Actually our property the week this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available. In addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters right now, we have some dating sites pay sites and a cam site available.

We often have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons. These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyer’s NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify now, time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker tuck is Maria Poro, Geena C O O best studios.

I hope I didn’t budge your name too bad, Maria. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 26s): Thank you for having me as a guest. And yes, my name is correct. So no problem.

Speaker 1 (2m 30s): Oh, good. I did good. That’s that’s fantastic. All right. So now we’ll tell everyone about you. Maria has built an impressive 15 year career in the live cam industry. She knows from experience what it means to be a top life cam model trainer and studio manager. She created and developed the model management concept, which aims to enhance performers, personalities, and objectives for achieving sustainable wellbeing of models. And over time, she’s become one of the industry’s ambassadors.

She’s been recognized with a series of awards, such as best cam industry ambassador by why not best industry representative by the Lal expo, the live cam awards and the AWS summit. Best studios is one of the leading live cam studios in the world. They’ve been in the market for over 20 years and received more than 60 awards for business excellence. Best studios motto, be the best or be the rest represents the company. Vision.

Best studios is recognized for professionalism, innovation and dedication towards continuous development of all models. The studio’s reputation is established following the experiences of thousands of models and the experience team, which has been actively involved in the business development and overall market progress by constantly challenging the status quo in 2020, the studio successfully launched the largest business expansion project in their history.

Investors were quick off the mark to show their interest in best studios franchises with three new exclusive studios opening in the first six months with others in various stages of development, both in Romania and other countries as well. So, Maria, tell me about your career. What made you choose the live cam industry and what led you to your current?

Speaker 2 (4m 28s): Oh, I’ve become a model for the money. I know everybody’s expecting a greater answer, but if it was because of the money, I was a manager before that working for some Irish pops here in Romania, I was having a lot of money and then I didn’t have that job anymore. So I was like, looking forward to see what can I get? I went to some interviews here and they told me I’m too young, too much experience. I’m asking for too much money. And I was like looking in the newspaper and I was finding jobs and I saw an app that they were looking for webcam models in Hollywood.

So I say, let’s give it a try to see how is it. And this is how I become a model. And this is the story. And then I was working for seven years as a model because some health issues I had to stop and I’ve become a trainer, then a manager, a training manager at some point. And now I’m the operational manager of the best studios. Wow.

Speaker 1 (5m 34s): Wow. And how long did it take you to climb that ladder?

Speaker 2 (5m 39s): It wasn’t like a goal for me. I just stayed in the industry because I really like it. And I started as a trainer. I have to say that after three months I wanted to become a manager and I applied for the job and they told me it was not the time for me. And then in another three months they said, oh, we need you as a studio manager. That’s fantastic. Well obviously, and everything and everything else just came along because back then we didn’t have like training manager and I was the first one to get this position right now.

We have Carmen taking my place. And then they said, okay, we are getting bigger and bigger. We need an operational manager. So here I am. Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (6m 30s): So do you, did you have any moments when you felt overwhelmed in doing your operations job that you do now?

Speaker 2 (6m 41s): Yes. Sometimes I want to go back online. So tell me about, tell me about that. I’m like to interact a lot of well with people. And right now, most of the time I sit on my desk with my computer doing a lot of internal stuff. So when I’m overwhelmed with that, I just want to go back online or go back to training right now, yesterday I was talking with one of my colleagues is like, I’m not doing webcamming training at all.

I’m only in papers and more papers and predictions and research. So yes, I don’t have that every day.

Speaker 1 (7m 25s): I think anyone who works in the corporate world and you’re really in the corporate world now, cause you were because the company that you’re with has grown by leaps and bounds since you got there. I think anyone in the corporate world, especially someone like yourself who has climbed the ladder and got into an executive role sometimes kind of looks down and they go, eh, sometimes I kind of wish I just had the simple life again. Action. Well, well I’m sure you could still cam you’re in charge there.

Speaker 2 (7m 60s): Oh yes. I still am not allowed by my contract to do that.

Speaker 1 (8m 3s): Aw man, I would renegotiate that.

Speaker 2 (8m 9s): You’re still, oh wait. Yes. I have so much information about the, the members base that we have for the models. So that will not be fair. Almost everything about the members.

Speaker 1 (8m 23s): Yeah. I guess I could be a little bit of a problem while you’re still, you’re still a beautiful lady, so I’m sure you do well.

Speaker 2 (8m 32s): Oh, I will go online and I will say to them, I know you, I know from that model and you like that and you have a fetish on that.

Speaker 1 (8m 41s): There you go. So how do you manage a big studios, daily operations? Maybe you can explain a normal day on the office or at the office

Speaker 2 (8m 54s): To explain we have right now with all the franchise. I think we go up to 200 models, maybe more. Wow. And yeah, and we have about 100 people in the staff working for the models. So that’s a big challenge. And we have like cope, corporate structure. We have owner, we have a CEO that’s Raluca, I’m the operational manager. Then we have development developer manager and we have a franchise manager.

We have the marketing manager, the training manager. We have a lot of managers and then a lot of people working for them. So it’s hard. You have to keep up with your internal staff and then you have to keep up with the market because everything is changing so fast in this industry. So I do have to be the connection between what the industry is right now and what we need to do in the studio and follow up the owner’s vision because we are doing right now, what the owner wants and what he thought that we can do in this industry.

And right now we are doing it very well.

Speaker 1 (10m 9s): Yeah, yeah, no, you guys are certainly doing well. Do you manage the operations for the franchises as well? How are you involved in supporting these partners?

Speaker 2 (10m 22s): Oh, I managed them as the, we manage the studio. I get the same involvement both into the studio and also for the franchises, because I have to keep, keep up with the quality that we have in the studio. This was the biggest challenge that we had as a franchise. We say, okay, we can sell the franchise. That’s not a big problem, but we want to keep the quality that we have and the standards that we have here in the studio, also in the franchise. And it’s sometimes it’s very hard if we are not involved 100%, it’s not going to work because we are the only studio that we don’t encourage our models to use toys.

And we go more into communication. Yeah. And it’s very easy at some point to say, oh, I’m not making enough money. Let’s get a deal though and make more money. So we have to keep an eye on the franchise just for that. Sure,

Speaker 1 (11m 17s): Sure. How does somebody become a franchisee has to have money.

Speaker 2 (11m 25s): You have to know about the industry. You will have to stay with us for a while to see what kind of person, because yes, you can have the money, but you have to have the same mentality and the vision as we do, this is very important.

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): W how does the process work? I mean, let’s say I’m here in Thailand and I’m going, okay. I want to start a studio. Maybe Thailand is not a good example because it probably last about two days before the police broke in. But let’s see, I’m actually in a country where the stuff is legal and I want to start a studio. What’s the process.

Speaker 2 (12m 7s): The first thing is to see if it’s legal or not. Yes. How much money do you have to invest in this? How much time do you want to invest in this business? If you want to run it yourself, or you want to have someone in charge because having the studio, it’s more like a personal business. If you put someone in charge is not going to work as much as you do. And it’s a lot of human interaction with the models and then with the members.

So you have to be very involved and we will have to see in which city you want to do to see how the market is over there. If it’s okay to open a studio over there or not, it’s like going in, try to open a studio in Luxembourg people over there, they have a salary equal to what a model is earning. So you’re not going to have models over there. Right,

Speaker 1 (13m 5s): Right, right. No, you’re not going to have, and you’re not, you’re not going to have a studio here. I promise

Speaker 2 (13m 10s): You. I think we had someone telling that they want to open a studio over there and we asked them to first verify the law and then see how safe it is.

Speaker 1 (13m 23s): Let me verify. Can I verify the law for you? It’s illegal.

Speaker 2 (13m 29s): Yes. And then to see again, the, the market, if the goes over there, we’ll love to work in, in the webcam industry, where is a lot to work or they will prefer to do something else.

Speaker 1 (13m 43s): I think in Thailand, like many countries, especially Asian countries where culturally it’s not accepted. I, I think you’d have a tough time getting models to show them, to show their faces on webcams. Just to hunch.

Speaker 2 (14m 1s): Yeah. I know when I was a model, well, like the Asian market was a big market for the models. There were a lot of Asian models on the, on the site. I don’t know what happened, but they’ve lost the interest and they were not making a lot of money. And they were like willing to do everything for $1. Right.

Speaker 1 (14m 24s): Philippines. Yes. Although that’s changed with door tan, there that’s another place where it would be, let me just say it would be, people would be risking their lives, trying to do porn over there. So what do you find the most challenging about your daily job?

Speaker 2 (14m 46s): Oh, right now the numbers, but what it’s very challenging is working with people with emotions because models in the studio are not just numbers. They’re people with feelings and they interact back with members and they have also feelings. So you have to have a, a line of communication over there to explain to the model for what they have to do in this job, how to provide the burst, the best quality service that can offer to the members.

Right. So I think that’s the most challenging to explain to the models, what they have to do. And to me, to make the members understand for, to understand the models, what they are here for.

Speaker 1 (15m 37s): Sure. Sure. What do you feel is most rewarding about your job?

Speaker 2 (15m 43s): Oh, when I see people happy, when I see the stuff that it’s happy, when I see the models that they are happy, that’s the things that really encourage me. And I love my job.

Speaker 1 (15m 56s): Fantastic. Fantastic. What do you feel makes you successful at what you do that

Speaker 2 (16m 3s): I care we are. It’s not only me. It’s about the team that I work with. It’s that we, we really care for what we are doing. We are carrying from. I know it sounds like a cliche, but we are caring from the member, right. To what the sites want to, what the model wants to, what we want to give and this caring. It’s very, very important.

Speaker 1 (16m 31s): Now, what gets you excited about coming to work every day?

Speaker 2 (16m 35s): Coming to work every day. I’m not the kind of person that will love to stay home. Even if I say I will take a holiday for one month and I will go and lay in my bed and do absolutely nothing, give me today’s like that. And I will just go crazy. I don’t know what to do home. I don’t know what to do in a mall. I like to interact with people. I love working. This is the thing that I always had. I think it was an escape from home, but I really love to work.

So only the thought that I’m going back and doing what I love. Maybe if I had a job that I hated, I will not think like that, but it’s like, oh, I’m going to work. It’s I wake up. I stay in my bed and I think what I’m going to wear today, what I have to do to know what kind of shoes I need today, and then go back to the office and I’m not going to take a cup of coffee or tea. I’m just getting there on my desk, open the computer, reading the males, the messenger, and just get into action.

And I, then I see, oh, it’s almost six. O’clock

Speaker 1 (17m 48s): Well, you always look really by the way. So now I’m now I’m understanding that I think some people really don’t care how they look. I can tell you do. It’s very obvious. What do you like least about your job?

Speaker 2 (18m 1s): Hm. I don’t know what, Hmm.

Speaker 1 (18m 4s): Oh, come on. There’s gotta be something you really hate. Sometimes

Speaker 2 (18m 8s): I hate what I’m doing right now because I have to sit in front of the computer and do a lot of paperwork. This is what I don’t like. I know it’s something that we must do and it helps my job, but it’s something I really hate. It’s like being an accountant. I cannot do that in my life, but it’s what I, I don’t like, I know it’s necessarily, but if I can manage without it, I would be so happy. Hmm. You know, when

Speaker 1 (18m 37s): You first said that, I thought you were talking about the interview. So what I’m doing right now, I’m going, oh geez. She hates this.

Speaker 2 (18m 46s): I do love to talk. I like to be in the center of attention. I

Speaker 1 (18m 51s): Understand I’m a former radio guy. So I completely understand. I think that’s, that’s a good part of why I do the podcast because it’s something that’s, you know, it gets my creative juices flowing and I do enjoy what’s it like to work? I mean, I know the answer to this because I was at the same company for 21 years. I was at a radio station in the San Francisco area. What’s it like to work at the same company for 15 years.

Speaker 2 (19m 15s): Oh, it’s great. It’s great. When you see to grow. Yeah. If you like go to a big company right now, it’s not going to grow. So it’s going to feel the same. But when you saw that you started in a small studio and you open a new studio and you move around and you have more stuff and you open new departments and you just grow every day. Oh, this is it’s huge for me to realize where you’ve been like 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago.

When, where you are right now, it’s impressive. What I like to watch on the pictures from different events that we have been like summits and to see how we used to be and what we are right now. Oh, this is a great feeling. You got to feel

Speaker 1 (20m 4s): Really proud too. You’ve been a big part of it.

Speaker 2 (20m 7s): Yes I am. It’s my baby.

Speaker 1 (20m 10s): Yeah. Yeah, no, I completely understand. And you know, I, I get that also from being a website broker, because when I talk to people, they’re very proud of what they’ve built. It’s not just money for them and it’s not just, okay, I want to sell this thing. I want to get rid of it. Whatever. They’re like, well, I want to make sure the owner takes good care of it. Cause this is my baby. At least that’s the case in a lot of, and a lot of cases. So look, I completely understand that because you put a lot into what you do every day.

At least I hope you do. You know, when I’m talking to other people about other people, you and I do. And, and you’d like to hope that everyone feels that way. Unfortunately, not everyone does, but a lot of my clients do, which is a good thing. So what makes best studios different? You know, this is a very highly competitive market, the studio business, especially in Romania, but what, what makes you guys different and what makes you better?

Speaker 2 (21m 8s): Oh, they have made,

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Right? I know you’re not joking. And it’s true.

Speaker 2 (21m 15s): The vision that we had, we started as a, as a studio. And then at some point the owner, because it’s all about the owner. The owner said, look, I wanna make the models happy. It’s like, yes, they come to work. They make a lot of money. But at the end of the day, they are not happy. They will say, oh, I will give up this job. I don’t want to do it anymore. I have enough money because I’m not happy with what I’m doing. Right. And I said, okay, why you are not happy?

And it was a huge thing for me to realize that I was teaching them how to be a good model. But I was never thinking about their happiness because I was a happy model. I was choosing to do this yes. For the money, but I was not starving or anything. It was just a good job. And then we realized that they are not feeling happy. They are not feeling happy because they are not able to show their humanity in front of the camera.

They will just be like sex toys. Remember they don’t want to talk too much with us. They ask us to get naked very fast. They, we are using a lot of toys. So I’m feeling bad when I leave my work, because of all the words that the member are saying to us and was like, yeah, but I was not feeling like this. And the winner was like, we don’t want to have this with the models. We want to have happy models, how we can make happy models. I said, okay, let’s check off everything that they don’t like about this job.

And to see if we can have a good product in the end said, okay, we lose the deal dose. We dress up the models. We go to a better English. Let’s see what is happening. And we got that product and the members were very happy and say, oh, I was looking for this. And I never thought I’m going to see it on a web camel site. Right. And we realized that members do need that because members are men and they then need only sex.

They need interaction more than sex. Right? Some of them, they need only sex. And there they have, they only have the money to pay for the sex, but others, they have the money to pay for interaction, socialize with the model to talk with the model, to have a over here, we’ll say, oh, this is a good idea. Let’s do this. And we saw that we have happy customers, the members happy models in the studio and people who were happy to come and work with us in the stuff we explained the interview, what the trainer has to do.

It’s like, oh, I only thought that I can show her how to go Doggystyle and slap her ass. It’s not, this is not in the industry. It’s something that we don’t do. You have to teach the models how to be happy. Right? Right. Yeah. We don’t have trainers. We have coaches. They coach them how to be happy with their self to have goals in their life. And that not everything is about the money.

It’s about giving something back and then going to get rewarded.

Speaker 1 (24m 42s): It sounds like the coaches are as much life coaches as they are, as they are.

Speaker 2 (24m 49s): Yep. They are life coaches. They are not about that. We sit with the model. It’s what makes you happy? Yeah. I don’t know. Okay. Let’s try to figure out what makes you happy right now. What is going to make you happy in the long term? And we’re going to work on that. It’s not about work. It’s not about how much money you make at the end of the day, because a happy person will always make money.

Speaker 1 (25m 15s): Yeah. And, and the customers are certainly going to spend a lot more if they, if they’re. Yes, that’s true. I mean, one goes with the other, so how would you describe the live cam industry from 15 years ago? And what are your thoughts on the industry today? It

Speaker 2 (25m 35s): Has changed a lot. It was small. Now it’s very big and I’m very competitive. We have so many brilliant people inside the industry. I think 15 years ago was like, we didn’t know each other so better right now. We are like a family. Right. It’s so nice to see when you go to an event and you just wish to meet people and go and party with them and do more business. And you see people growing into this industry and doing something new that maybe like 15 years ago was not available.

And someone came up with an idea and said, everybody was like, oh, that person is crazy. And right now it’s very successful in what it’s doing. Yeah. So I do like the industry and what it’s become.

Speaker 1 (26m 25s): And it’s really, it’s really matured. Yes. So how has the company and the team changed since you joined? Oh,

Speaker 2 (26m 34s): The company. I think the team changed a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot because some people cannot keep up what we are doing. So we only have people that they have the same mentality as we do. Right. So it has changed a lot, but the vision and what we believe in it. Hasn’t yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 58s): Which were your favorite and least favorite moments of your career?

Speaker 2 (27m 3s): Hmm, my favorite one. It was when I first got my first award, it was yes. For the best industry representative. It was like, wow,

Speaker 1 (27m 16s): You got more than one. Which, which award

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): Was it? Yes. I have four. The first one was why not the words. Okay. And, oh, I was so happy about it. The first one that we had, like for the best studio, it was the recognition for what we done. Nice. And then when I was able to get a model to be top one on incomes, on live, Jasmine, that was a big goal for me.

And when we were able to do that with my first model, I was crying.

Speaker 1 (27m 56s): That’s nice

Speaker 2 (27m 57s): Because it’s easy to do it on you. When you work on yourself, it’s very hard to do it with someone else. And that was a huge moment. And what I, what I didn’t like, it’s not what I didn’t, it’s what I don’t like when people say that webcam models are stupid, that’s true or not

Speaker 1 (28m 22s): True in a lot of cases.

Speaker 2 (28m 25s): Yes. And this is the thing like, oh, what a webcam model can do get naked, then that’s all. Yeah. And it’s like, you don’t know the hard work behind it.

Speaker 1 (28m 34s): Yeah. It’s a tough, it’s a tough job.

Speaker 2 (28m 38s): Yes. And this is what I, I really don’t like when people look at models like that, it’s something that I incur every day and it’s very hard and it feels like I want to go outside and scream. This is not true. Let me explain to them,

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): Well, you see the people who say that are ignorant. So you know that stupidity in itself. So what do you want? And there’s a lot of sexism mixed in there as well, which is also stupidity. What do you want to achieve next in your career now? Would you consider this, your dream job? Or are you thinking about the next,

Speaker 2 (29m 19s): No, this is my dream job. I don’t see myself doing something else. Outside the industry. I would love to work in the industry, work with best studios and grew up. I don’t know what the next step will be, because if you asked me about three years ago about the franchise, I would say, oh, this is not for us. It’s not something that we want right now. Very happy with it.

Speaker 1 (29m 42s): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you know another question, you mentioned the franchises. Now, there are others that offer franchises. Why would somebody take a best studios franchise as opposed to brand X?

Speaker 2 (29m 58s): I dunno. It’s about the, I wouldn’t say, oh, let’s sell this franchise, but it’s about the feeling. When you want to open a business, you will have to, you have to be able to choose, go and talk with franchise ex, go in franchise that, and then go to the best studios and see how you feel inside it. Because we are not the franchise for everyone. We are a franchise for someone that has the same beliefs as we do.

Yeah. So if they want to choose us, it’s because they want to get involved into something together with us and to, to have the same beliefs as we do. Yes. You’re gonna make money less, more. Sure. But the difference is to invest in something that you like and work with the people that you like, because you’re going to interact with us a lot. Even don’t like us, it’s not going to go okay for you.

Speaker 1 (31m 1s): No, no. Well like any like any business, like any job.

Speaker 2 (31m 7s): Yes. It’s the same thing that I’m always telling the models. When they come to an interview, go to other interviews, talk with other people, see, see, where are you going to feel better? Yeah. Because you’re going to do this for a long time. You’re going to buy a franchise. It’s not going to be for six months. It’s going to be for life. So you have to enjoy it because you have this opportunity to choose. Right. And when you’re going to choose us, make sure you do it for the, for the right.

I dunno how to say not motives. Yeah. Maybe for the right reasons, but for the right feeling. Right.

Speaker 1 (31m 46s): Right. And really sounds like what you’re trying to establish. There’s kind of like, like a family type atmosphere.

Speaker 2 (31m 54s): It’s not family because family, you cannot choose. It’s about friends, team, a family. It’s something that you get, you stuck with it with your brothers and mothers and you cannot change it. But friends and the team, you can choose it. Yep.

Speaker 1 (32m 14s): Now what qualities does someone need to succeed as a manager in this industry

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): To love the industry. And that’s all everything else you can learn, but you cannot teach someone to love something. It’s a different kind of industry. But if you don’t love the industry, you’re not going to be able to be a good manager. You have to love the industry. You have to love the people that you work with. So understand that it’s very different, but you have to love the industry. If you don’t do that, you’re not going to succeed.

Speaker 1 (32m 50s): Okay. Now, do you think any woman can be suited for a career in the live cam industry? Or if not, what kind of woman has the best chance to succeed?

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): Not anyone can be a webcam model. Not anyone can work in this industry. It’s like not everyone can be a teacher. Yeah. I will be a bad teacher. I will kill the kids. My students. Yes. It’s very different. What do you need? You don’t have to be beautiful. You have to be smart enough to understand that you can grow and you need to grow and develop yourself, hardworking people that they are interested in about develop their self more and more every day.

This is what you need. We can make you beautiful in two hours. That’s not the problem. You can learn English. That’s not the problem. Right. But you have to believe in yourself and to have this, to be open to the idea of develop yourself.

Speaker 1 (34m 4s): Hmm. And doesn’t, doesn’t being in this industry, make a lot of women believe in themselves.

Speaker 2 (34m 10s): They do. They understand they can do anything in their life. And it’s because of the interaction that they have with the members. It’s about what they are learning. Because talking with different people, from different cultures, with different jobs, you get a lot of information. Something that you cannot have it from books, right? Because you’re not going to open a law book, but you’re going to talk with a lawyer and he’s going to talk to you about his life and daily things that they are doing.

And you’re going to learn from it.

Speaker 1 (34m 46s): And he’s going to charge you $500 an hour. Do you have any advice for other women who want to build a career in the webcam industry? It, wait, I think that’s, I think that’s taken. I think you’re going to get sued. I think you’re going to get sued by Nike.

Speaker 2 (35m 8s): Yeah. But that’s a Moto in leasing. This is an advice don’t ever think twice. Do what you’re feeling right now. Right. Then what you think it’s best for you right now? You don’t know what is going to happen tomorrow. Right. But if you want to do something today, just do it. Don’t wait. Don’t think twice. Because when you think twice, you’re going to find bad things. Good things. Just go with your instinct. You

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): Can talk yourself out of good ideas. Can’t you think back to when you first got started as a model. Okay. Now, what do you wish you’d known when you first started that? You know, now everything

Speaker 2 (35m 52s): About the members know to understand what kind of service I can provide as a webcam model, because I thought it was about selling sex, selling an image, not selling your heart. And this is about selling what you can give from inside you, not what you can give with your body.

And to understand that member are more sensitive than women. They need more compliments that we need as a woman. It’s something that I realized. I think after four years, when I told one of my members that he was looking good in a suit and he was blushing, and I said, why are you blushing? And he told me, you know, no one told me that you look handsome and really believe it.

It’s like that and said, Nope, you as a woman, you hear that every day, if you have a new dress and you go meet your friends or go to the office, everyone is going to say, oh, you look so nice in that dress. Even if it’s true or not, but you get a lot of compliments, right. As a man, if you get the new shirt, no one is going to say, oh, you look so nice in that new shirt. That

Speaker 1 (37m 23s): Is, so that is so true.

Speaker 2 (37m 25s): Yeah. It was like, yeah, that is true. And he was like, I need compliments. I love getting compliments. I don’t get it enough. I wish I was a girl. I’m going to make compliments. And I start doing that with my members. And they were like, surprise. Like, you know, I, haven’t got a compliment in a very, very long time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 45s): Yeah. Well, if he wants to be a girl, he, he just needs to come out here. It’s pretty cheap to get the change. How, how would you describe your, your life work balance? Oh, I don’t have a balance

Speaker 2 (38m 1s): When people say they can manage a career and a family life. That’s not true because when I’m home with my husband, I want to have more time to spend with him. When I’m at work, I need more time to spend at work. So again, the, the day I don’t have a job from nine till six, I go, I get later to the office because I want to spend more time with my husband in the morning, but I’m staying longer at the office.

And sometimes I get work back home. So it’s not that bad. So it’s like, you got

Speaker 1 (38m 38s): A little bit, it’s a bit of a balance there. You know? You said, you said you, you said you, well, you said you spend time in the morning with your husband. So

Speaker 2 (38m 47s): Yes, but I don’t spend time with my daughter. I just become a mom. And right now I am not keeping my daughter with me there with my year with my mum, mum, we’re in LA, she’s taking care of the baby. Got it. Because I don’t have time for the family. And I do realize, but I’m giving her the best opportunity that she can have it right now. But I cannot say, oh, I’m happy back home.

And I’m happy at work. And no, when I have to travel with work, I wish I was home. When, I mean holiday with my family. I’m thinking about work that I don’t have time to do that. And that, and that’s not the balance. It’s something that you have to be grateful with what you have and not think about that. I don’t have that

Speaker 1 (39m 38s): Well, something to work towards, I guess. So I, so I usually ask people what they do in their free time. But I, I won’t ask you that question.

Speaker 2 (39m 49s): Oh, I’m doing a lot of, a lot of things in my free time. Sometimes I’m doing work.

Speaker 1 (39m 56s): I was afraid. I was afraid that was going to be the answer.

Speaker 2 (40m 1s): And I also take time for my free time to travel, to do some things. When I want to keep away from work, I just don’t have the internet. And I have time for myself. So I’m not doing as much as I wanted to do. Yeah. There are lots of things that I’ve give up, but not all for work. Right. But for myself, I go home and I watch movies because one of my favorite things, I know reading a lot of books.

I’m meeting with friends. Yeah. Try to do fun stuff. Fun stuff for my age. Because if you asked me when I was 21, I was like, Bobby, right now, it’s not the bulk party. Tell me about it. I’m 63 so

Speaker 1 (40m 52s): I can play. I come. I completely understand. So there’s some balance there

Speaker 2 (41m 1s): Depends on the perspective. If you ask a mom. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41m 5s): Oh definitely.

Speaker 2 (41m 7s): She’s not spending enough time with their family. If you ask them, I get that. I get that some day. We’ll see. You’re not staying enough at work. So,

Speaker 1 (41m 18s): Ah, the life, the life of a female executive with a family, it’s not an easy thing.

Speaker 2 (41m 23s): Oh, it’s not these. Even for that, I think this is something that we say, oh, mom, has it harder? No. Did that, that had the same feeling, the same needs. They feel bad. It’s only that we look at them from a different perspective. Sure,

Speaker 1 (41m 40s): Sure. How much do you miss? The

Speaker 2 (41m 44s): A lot than not. I miss traveling. I miss meeting with the people when I was at the shows, I was thinking, oh, I do have to be here for another day. Wish I could go back to work. I have so many things to do. And right now I miss not the parties, the mingling with the people. I miss the hugs. Yes. And to see people and see what everyone was doing. So what I really miss.


Speaker 1 (42m 15s): Yeah. Because that to me is family. That is that’s our adopted family. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Hey Maria, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult site, broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 34s): Thank you so much for having me. We can do this anytime you want. Okay. Tomorrow let’s do it tomorrow. I have time. I will make time for sure.

Speaker 1 (42m 45s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation that a potential buyer may want to find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content. Number of images and number of videos. How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years.

If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports. Get all that information organized in a legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know such as well?

Are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts or anything else like that? Don’t let these things be a surprise to a potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Aree of Webcam Startup.

Speaker 0 (44m 18s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Maria of Best Studios. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Andy Wullmer of Traffic Partner.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages. Google has placed the websites in good search positions.

There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and by traffic, this top of the line tube network is available for only $595,000. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today on adult site, broker talk is Andy warmer, also known as the traffic captain of traffic partner.

Andy, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk, oh my God. It’s been way too long, my friend way too long. Now I’ll tell everybody about you. Andy is a veteran of the industry for over 20 years. He was the founder of sex, goes mobile before selling it to the company. He now works with traffic partner and he works with many verticals from porn to online retail, mobile offers, dating and live camps.

He worked as a model agent before he started brokering traffic. His nickname, as I mentioned is the traffic captain because he’s recognized as a strong leader in this industry. Now, Andy is the CEO of mobile for traffic partner with brands like fuck book, sex goes mobile. That sounds familiar. Web billing, grand slam media dating partner, cam partner, digital performance and more traffic partner.com has been in business since 1997 and offers direct advertisers, casual and mainstream dating products.

As well as community entertainment systems apps, mobile web and desktop versions are available in 50 plus countries. They own all of their own products or a full exclusivity. They’re constantly searching for premium quality, mobile and desktop traffic from publishers and networks concerning their own direct top. Performing dating and community offers their business models are CPL, rev share PPS, CPM, or CPC. That’s allowing promoting their products via affiliate display, push, email marketing, and more VIP partners will be assigned to a dedicated account manager that will not only monitor campaigns, but support you in optimizing your campaigns for the highest results and sorry, Andy.

That’s all the time we have today now. Very long introduction, right? My friend, I had anything for you and Michael. Okay. So you guys do a large percentage of your work within the dating industry. Now what’s the current state of affairs with dating

Speaker 1 (4m 41s): Traffic. The point is the three very different markets. And it’s the, like you said, it’s the adored dating, the casual dating and the mainstream dating. So I always say like they do dating is only the, that you have a one night stand find somebody who want fast text. Right? So go on that. Then the casual one is you’re looking for a relationship, but you’re not sure. And you only want to play around. And then the mainstream one is you want to find somebody to live together or even do it with a marriage.

And so these markets are totally different and marketing and odd, so different where you get the traffic from. And the good thing is that we have all three. So everybody who have traffic, we can find the right product for him. And of course the growing of the main stream was very high during the, the Corona virus. Because if you only want to go on a sex date, it’s difficult because right now it’s difficult to meet people

Speaker 0 (5m 48s): Or dangerous

Speaker 1 (5m 49s): Or dangerous. And you don’t, you don’t have a full body condom perhaps with the subsequent, you know, so, but the, the mainstream dating was growing extremely because you know, there’s a lot of chatting before you really need people. So everybody was working out on their profile to have more time to write more about them. They uploaded more picture. There’s a lot of more chat.

And as the model in our apps, my dates and I dates, it’s like, people pay us per message. It’s like, you go on Facebook and you have to pay like a little amount for every message. And that was for us from the profit side, super, and also for our affiliates, they made a lot of more money out of the traffic because it’s not a subscription model. It’s an open the message payment model. And that was for us the super success.

Okay. Okay. Now how

Speaker 0 (6m 52s): Unique is it for a company to have all three types of data?

Speaker 1 (6m 57s): Well, normally the, when I started with this, the way I direct the only the mainstream ones and the adult ones, so there was a big difference. They were not working together. Even. I remember there were shows like 2005 and 2010, where were these posts? People not even talk with it. Okay. And then there was the breakthrough was the casual dating. What was attractive for webmasters, which were sending traffic in both directions.

So it started that the DeWalt mainstream were fighting for the same traffic from the, from the same affiliates. I think one big through breakthrough was also when we had the house of slim party on the internet. That was 2015. And there was the internet in the same time as the affiliate summit west. So there was a mainstream show and an adult show at the same time in Las Vegas. And of course we are doing guys no better to rock.

So we had DMX, unfortunately he died last Friday, but we had DMX and Cypress hill on stage have made a big party. And then all this mainstream people come to me and ah, and me, because grandson, media and sex was Bubba. We will, we were the sponsors or together with <inaudible>. I then all this mainstream guys came over to, oh, I heard you have a party. You kind of have an entrance and stuff like this. So that was a nice breakthrough between this both different markets.

And after it, the, I know, I remember when we had the first booth at the mainstream show, like the affiliate summit east in New York, we didn’t put six, goes mobile. We were pro. So we find a new name, you know? So, and then you saw also like the guys from bitter strawberry coming there and more and more doing people who went over to the, this mainstream shows.

And then we will, of course was important that we developed also our mainstream products. So we started to go into that market, but the main streamers, they never just developed sex products. So we were the pirates catching our money in bear markets. And that was a big advantage. Sure.

Speaker 0 (9m 20s): And now at all of the affiliate shows, not just affiliate summit, but all of the affiliate shows, it’s gotta be 30, 35% adult people.

Speaker 1 (9m 30s): Yeah.

Speaker 0 (9m 30s): For sure. By the way, did you ever see those, those Budweiser commercials with spuds McKenzie? The party animal? Nope. Yeah. You are German, aren’t you? Well, they had this dog and they called him spuds Mackenzie. And they would do all these commercials where he’s in all these play, all these luxurious places with women all around and they say, spuds, Mackenzie, the party animal. Now Andy Wolf, Andy Woolmer is the party animal. Come on, man. Okay. Yeah. We

Speaker 1 (9m 58s): It’s folks that German thing, we, we, we work hard, but we probably have to. Yes. We

Speaker 0 (10m 4s): Knew as October Fest will be a, definitely an example of that. So how profitable is it to buy and sell dating traffic using your company traffic partner?

Speaker 1 (10m 19s): It’s, it’s totally depends on the source. You know, we do a lot of testing and we have a business intelligence members in our group. They check all the traffic. If it looks like blood traffic, because on CPR, you have a lot of people that want to say, send you book traffic. They only need to put an email in. So we lose a lot of times money when we buy traffic on CPL from strange sources. But we are always willing to test, test, test that we work together with a lot of performance networks.

They have their affiliates. And so we got the traffic through them and then we have still classical affiliates and webmasters sending directly to us. And of course you see always when somebody have good traffic, you want to sell it on rev share because he knows, he knows this traffic is converting and he wants to make long term money. And CPL is always a little bit more dangerous because there’s a lot of products, especially from Pakistan, from India, Philippines, and countries like this, they think, oh, they are so stupid.

They don’t see when I put fake emails, but we catch them always and we don’t pay them out. So don’t even try it.

Speaker 0 (11m 36s): So where bot traffic was once a problem, the more traffic people like talk to, and again, you know, traffic has is not my game. Okay. And I broke her, I broke her websites, but I learned from the people I talked to and what I’m hearing more and more is bot traffic isn’t as much of a problem because of all of the analytics you have,

Speaker 1 (11m 55s): You have course we have analytics, but they still try. You know, if you have a CPA model, that means people only need to put their email in. And then you got paid. It’s like a lead pipe cost per lead. And of course, if the email looks good at the, at the fraud us, the fraud has, don’t use old school bots where you see directly VPN IP or something, the, the cheapest become better. So you need to be better on the protection of your system.

So it’s, it’s like a game,

Speaker 2 (12m 27s): But you can verify email

Speaker 0 (12m 28s): Addresses. Right? I mean, there’s, there’s a, I mean, I know I have I’ve, I’ve, I’ve gone in verified my lists over and over to make sure they’re scrubbed. Don’t you guys use those, those tools.

Speaker 1 (12m 40s): Oh, of course. Yeah. But they, they have real, GBN mostly, they have most of the Gmail, real Gmail accounts. And they even, they even answer the image, you know, the cost of the cost of employees in India, Pakistan. And some, if you pay somebody, if you pay somebody a hundred dollars a month and do nothing else, then subscribe to different dating sites through different performance. But he even opened the email, he confirmed the email, he puts his name and even put fake pictures in it.

So, you know, it’s not the classical, but of course, with all the technology bot traffic, you can see very fast detect very fast. But if, if you have this human factor and it’s not for me, okay. Perhaps the definition of bot is wrong. It’s like frogs, traffic. It’s not what traffic it’s fraud.

Speaker 0 (13m 31s): Well, no. Have you, don’t you, do you guys block any countries?

Speaker 1 (13m 36s): Generally we don’t block. But if we see, if we see directly that is somebody from Pakistan, especially to India, we are very careful. And we add, we pay out 30 days net. So we have at least some time to see if all this leads you brought in, you know, the classical thing is somebody bring a thousand leads. Nobody of them spent any money in the system, you know, it’s it’s fraught. Sure, sure.


Speaker 0 (14m 7s): Now, obviously we’ve been in a pandemic for over a year now. How has that influenced your business?

Speaker 1 (14m 13s): Yeah. Like I told you before, for our message based and mainstream products, it was very positive for our fast six dating side. They’re more or less stable because people keep in contact. But yeah, the growing wasn’t the mainstream, because a lot of people, they never use the, this dating before because they went into bars or restaurants or they, you know, there were many other places to do dating, but in the pandemic they have to use dating sites. So it was a big, big growth for all dating companies.


Speaker 0 (14m 45s): Now how about your life? How has the virus impacted you personally?

Speaker 1 (14m 50s): The first moment I was super angry about this because I’m not such afraid to vote. I was, you know, I lived in countries like Mexico and Venezuela. I went to the juggler desk a lot. So a lot of virus and parasites and you know, I’m not so afraid of this. And even when I see back when this started, and then it was like December, December in China, December 19, it started in China. And I was in Bangkok after I was in Taiwan.

Then I was in Manila. Then I was in Palau islands. Then January, I was back in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vegas. Yup. Yup. And then in February, February, March, I was over, even in Columbia, I went always flights from east to west. And then the last show was the, the part of that one. And I came home and then, you know, normally I go swimming every, every, every week I go three, four times swimming. He had the public pool and one Sunday, 15 of mine, I remember 15 of match, 2020.

I went Sunday morning to my swim. I said, no, we are closed because of growth that I was like, fuck what the fuck? It’s yeah,

Speaker 0 (16m 5s): Yeah. That I don’t get that I don’t get, do they, do they really think it’s a chlorine and a pool? The Corona virus is going to even be in

Speaker 1 (16m 12s): The water. Yeah. Whatever. So then my next show, I had a show in Italy was canceled. And then my show in Israel was canceled at the show in Moscow and Kiev, all cancer. That was April and may. So I was really angry because I, you know, if you have the rhythm to go every month to one or two shows and I’m staying at home and what I was like, yeah, staying at home, what you do here, it was really angry. But then I changed to enjoying it.

So it was a nice spring last year. So I discovered a lot of nice areas here around my hometown. I cleaned up my house. I renovated some stuff. So becoming, becoming normal with it.

Speaker 0 (16m 57s): That’s good. Well, for a guy that goes to, what do you do? Tell me before we started recording to about 25 shows a year, you probably, usually don’t remember what your home looks

Speaker 1 (17m 6s): Like. Wait, it’s like I’m 200, 200 days at home and 160 on travel. Something like that.

Speaker 0 (17m 15s): She’s better you than me. Okay. Cryptocurrencies have gone pretty nuts. Now, while we’re recording this, we’ve seen record run-ups for Bitcoin ether and other cryptocurrencies. What impact does that have on your business?

Speaker 1 (17m 30s): On the business? Not too much because the, the, the quantity of people that have Bitcoins and want to pay with this, it’s too small when you see it on the worldwide population. But for me privately, I was very skeptical. When I heard first time, it was also the next 2014 and then Vegas. And I was like, I know this, this is like a big scam. And so, and then I, then I also saw the news.

It was always something was criminal, criminal activities and stuff like this. But after the drop and then 2019, I bought some, some of these cryptocurrencies only to have them. You know, like if you do investment, you have a real estate, you have stock exchange, you have some gold. So I wanted to have some cryptos on my stock. And of course they develop very nice, but I’m still it’s. I have still the feeling. It’s like a casino, you know, because it’s, it’s the same with real money, you know, here it says a Bitcoin is like 50,000 or $55,000.

Yes. Yes.

Speaker 0 (18m 45s): As we, as we tape right now, 55, 6, 3, 8, I’m looking at my desktop. Oh, three, seven. It went down

Speaker 1 (18m 54s): Three six. Bye it’s. It’s all about the trust of people at something, because of course, a hundred dollars, a hundred dollar bill is also only a piece of paper if you don’t trust. And of course through the Corona crisis or governments in the world are printing money. Like hell. And if I, if I see a president Biden said, yeah, $1 trillion or something like this is the bank. And you say, okay, so that you see also on the stock exchange market, we had the biggest crisis of the, the last 50 years and, and all the stock exchanges go up new record, new, regular new record.

This, this is the reason because the governments are pumping so much money into the, to the market. And I think $100 is not $100 anymore. It’s only because people still trust that’s the underdog. So it’s not bad to have some cryptocurrencies in your portfolio. I would not say, go, go for it for the full amount. But it’s a very interesting project. Also. I like there’s some other cryptocurrencies, they are brand new and then even better.

For example, there’s one, I like Yokota the technology behind it’s very way, way better than a Bitcoin, but it’s not so known. So when people need to get trust, but I think cryptocurrencies will be something for the future, but who is the winner? I don’t know Bitcoin was the first, but normally the first is not the winner. You see, there was my space and then there was Facebook and then you see there was Yahoo, but then there was Google. So we will see what it comes to.

But if you somebody over put some money in cryptocurrencies and split it up on the top 10, I would say, Hmm,

Speaker 0 (20m 53s): Interesting theory. I will look at that. I, right now I’m just an ether and I’m pretty happy with what’s happened, but I’m holding. I’m just holding. In fact, I’m like, I might double down. Yup, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I sold, I sold Bitcoin when it was, I thought at its peak at 19,000. Well, and then I invested in a friend of mine, said a few mutual friend of ours.

We were talking about before the, this thing said, oh, there’s this new Russian cryptocurrency Putin’s behind it. It’s going to be big. So I took all my Bitcoin money and S and some more and put it in this thing. And it’s vaporized just vaporized. You know, I’m going to be a millionaire anyway. So, well,

Speaker 1 (21m 46s): There’s, there’s one thing. If you buy a cryptocurrency, don’t look at the value right now. Look for the people who are behind and what is the extra value that the coin brings. Right. And why Bitcoin Bitcoin is going up like this because when companies like PayPal or visa cards and other, they say, okay, we will use it. If there’s the use, then a value comes into it. Yeah. Well,

Speaker 0 (22m 13s): The Elon Musk is behind Dodge coin, man. Okay. Okay. I think, I think we’re gonna see the big short on that one pretty soon a big part of what you do. And what many of us do is go to the events as I talked about, and you talked about we not only display, but we network, we do business with a virus. All of that has been on hold. Now, there are virtual shows. Of course, it’s not the same. How has the lack of shows affected your business?

Speaker 1 (22m 45s): It’s difficult to find new people. You know, we have our stable network. We are a long time in the business. So for us, the influence, we see that we have less new, interesting affiliates. Of course we can find them through other media. So, so on the show, you can need, you can buy Google, AdSense, AdWords to find new ones. We can, we have the telegram groups, we have the Facebook groups. So there is way to find new affiliates, but the good thing on a personal choice as I’m a longtime network and this, that a friend of a friend, he shows you, you know, introductions, life introduction.

And then you sit together and you have some drinks and you have a dinner and you have a party. So this relationship is directly very strong. Instead of somebody you never saw hit you up on Skype, Hey, I have traffic and you don’t know who he is, where he comes from. So it’s for us, it’s a little bit dropped in new affiliates. But I think the worst thing is for all the new companies, startups, you start up or companies, which are not so known. It’s very difficult without shows, because I remember when I was on my first shows with sex goes mobile.

I came back and I, I had to, after 20 times more say than before they were, my first shows was, was like a really Buba for this new startup. And I think it’s very difficult for new companies right now.

Speaker 0 (24m 17s): Oh, absolutely. At least, you know, people like us are already established. So people know us and people are going to come to us for things. You know, you, you have a podcast too. You do a, a, you do a, a YouTube show and it’s, it’s, it’s very, very, very, very popular. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about that?

Speaker 1 (24m 38s): Well, it it’s came sorts of as Corona. And the first time I had time to look about all the videos. So I started a YouTube channel called the traffic captain. I make my YouTube channel. And then I was uploaded first, all my old videos from the parties, from the different it show events for my scuba diving for my advantage. So after a short time, I had more than 80, 90 videos up there. And I saw that I got one. Then I saw, I had 1000 subscribers, 2000 subscribers.

So now I have, now I have something like 5,700 or something like this. And then I had, I saw that other people do a lot of interviews with me. So I uploaded, I uploaded also the interviews, which they made with me. And then I started to make my own videos. So I think I have now in one year, I make like 25 30, like every two week I do an interview. And yeah, I liked this with the, with the zoom software, because I also want to see the people.

But of course, like Jason, Jason Hunt taught me, Eddie, take only the boys make your own podcast. But as I have already, so many other things to do, I stay, I I’m still the video guy I liked.

Speaker 0 (25m 57s): Yeah. Jason was, Jason was one of our first, one of our first guests on here. And he, again, he’s obviously done some work for me as well. In fact, his company’s doing SEO work for us. Now, now recently, a couple of things happened. The free speech coalition finally won their case on 2, 2, 5, 7 when the government backed out. But that kind of became a shallow victory because MasterCard came down with some strict new guidelines on user-generated content and changes all adult sites needed to make.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if before this runs and visa does the same. In fact, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, what impacts do you think this will have on the adult

Speaker 1 (26m 39s): Industry? Like I do it in this. She always find a solution. And I I’m sure there were more was cryptocurrencies. And I, I’m not sure why they already have, especially with like a big company like breathers, you know, imagine a one or two years ago they made the, they should make their own coin and then bring it to all the other dude’s sites. But of course, especially for the U S market, because U S customers always pay with credit card.

It was a big impact and Europe, not so much because people here don’t really pay with credit card. Only, only 40th, only 45% of the people have even a credit card and they pay with debit cards. And th there, there is no regulation because it’s from the direct bank so they can do, they can pay whatever they want. That cannot be a restriction. But of course, the first moment, you know, it’s always like when, when some big major players change the world, that has an impact, but the doing industry always find our, we always fight back and we find our solution.

Speaker 0 (27m 50s): We’re pretty damn resilient. And you, you already, you already took the air out of my next question, because I was going to ask you, do you think long-term cryptos?

Speaker 1 (27m 60s): Yes. Yeah, of course. Because imagine, especially in countries and countries is a, like an Africa emergency cadres or third world countries. Like they called them that there is so difficult for, for people to get a bank account. And so imagine you have everything on your mobile phone and because mobile phones, everybody has, even in the poorest country, you see people with mobile phones and then it’s easy.

You want to buy something. Okay. I sent you this amount of cryptocurrencies changing and they don’t even know banks, you know, and then why we need, why we need banks, banks. I hate, for example, when I sent money from Germany to south America, they charge, they charge me 50, let’s say, I said thousand dollars to south America. They charged me 50 bucks on my side, 50 bucks on his side and the transaction, the transaction needs five to seven business days, you know, from banks, from, from, from Germany to Bogota, it’s the two main cities, two economies.

Why they need five

Speaker 0 (29m 13s): Business, not to mention well that’s because they want to, they want to float your money. But, you know, I mean, not only that, but there’s, there’s, you know, there’s currency fees and, you know, it just gets very, you know, banks make it very expensive to do business there, robbers they should.

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): Yeah, really. And so I think cryptocurrencies, especially this will take over because people only need to transact at the moment. The problem is a lot of people don’t really know where to buy, to buy. You need a credit card or something to put some money in or WIA. So how does the people in these countries, they cannot get a Bitcoins because they don’t have a bank account, another credit card. So, but for example, I know from Thailand that there’s a lot of people, they own bars or restaurants.

You can go bring some cash money and they give you, they give you a Bitcoins for that.

Speaker 0 (30m 14s): That’s interesting that, that, I didn’t know, but that does not surprise me. And, and I think you’re going to see more retail oriented exchange, not only bars, but shops seven 11. I mean, we have a seven 11, every 10 feet here, as you probably know. So, you know, things like that. And I think banks and the financial world is petrified of crypto personally, as, as their governments, governments are petrified of it too, because they lose control.

Speaker 1 (30m 44s): We had here Germany, we had cryptocurrencies ATM where you can buy, buy in and buy out for cryptocurrencies and the German bank control system, the Baffin, they block them all. And even the, the founder of this company now it’s in prison and waiting for his case because they say he was helping two people laundering money. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s still a fight, but you know, you things, they always find their way through.

I’m sure that cryptocurrency is some of them.

Speaker 0 (31m 19s): Well, banks, banks have the governments in their pockets. Let’s face it and let and vice versa, vice versa. So it’s one, it’s one big circular thing where they want to make all the money and they don’t want anybody else to it’s. It’s the whole

Speaker 1 (31m 33s): Thing. If you see, if you see the, when there was the big bank crisis, 2008, how many billions of tax money the governments put into these bags? Sure. That that was the biggest robbery ever.

Speaker 0 (31m 48s): It was a scam. It was a scam. Let’s face it. Now our business continues to be under attack by government regulation, as well as from private companies. Like we talked about with MasterCard, of course, you porn lost their processing for awhile and X videos. As I had similar issues, what do you see our industry doing to get them off

Speaker 1 (32m 8s): Our backs? Again, I w I don’t really well.

Speaker 0 (32m 12s): The governments, the government seems to always be on our backs, like the Canadian government KV, Canadian government son, you porn’s back, you know, exit videos involved. Now, you know, obviously the media has jumped in with the New York times and all that. So w w what do you see our government doing to get them off

Speaker 1 (32m 31s): Our backs? It’s like, I live in Germany, adhere the government. And even the rules, like if you go to German, Google dot D E you will not even find the big tube sites like YouPorn read or X videos or whatever, because they are banned from the jump and Google. We have feel so strict laws. I don’t all the, all the companies which are doing really hardcore content are not in Germany. They go to Denmark, they go to Holland, they go to Switzerland, or they go to Austria.

The Germans laws for, for the <inaudible> is so discussing hot that all the door companies try to go out of this country. So I don’t know what the, the U S people in government, that’s not my game. I don’t really know.

Speaker 0 (33m 22s): Just, it’s not just the U S obviously it’s Germany, too. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 (33m 27s): This is, since, since I started in the business, the worst thing, I might my fix this pigs, because you, the dude I broke, my, my first domain was with the dot. The E was bushy. Did it? It’s like the pussy poke the in German. And I put, I put, I put a hardcore site on it and I directly got a big fine, because I put there hardcore. Then since this day, I never ever bought a.ge domain again.

Speaker 0 (33m 55s): So you’ve been in the business for a long time. And you’ve obviously done many things. What challenges have you seen in our industry since you started out over 20 or rather, I’m sorry, what changes have you seen in our industry since you started over 20

Speaker 1 (34m 10s): Years ago? Well, I was starting to sell VHS cassettes to pick video shops. Then I started, then I was selling DVDs and all Europe. Then I had my first DVD online shop. So I did e-commerce and then the mobile came out. So we sold stuff on mobile. Then they take LiveCap. You always need to adapt to a new technology. Imagine I would be still trying to say VHS and DVD to shops.

I wouldn’t already out of the business. So adopting new technologies, that’s the, that’s the, that’s the moneymaker in this industry. And of course, if you go on the content side, it becomes always more and more niche. When I, when I started the first movies we sold and produced, they were like, now it’s like, yeah, really normally sex a man and woman goes to bed, have normal sex. If you, if you shoot movies like this, now nobody wants to see it.

It’s not extreme, but niche disgusting. Some of these are like, but some niche it’s really disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, no, I

Speaker 0 (35m 25s): Was talking about just, just standard sex. Yeah. So what, what do you see ahead for our industry? If you could look into that crystal ball,

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): Yours, and if I know it, I don’t tell you, I leave a note on a podcast. You mentioned, I have a great idea. I tell it on your podcast. And then two years later, I see a new company coming out with that and I say, oh fuck. That was my idea.

Speaker 0 (35m 57s): No, but what, what direction do you see the, see the, the industry?

Speaker 1 (36m 0s): Well, I, I think that life cabin dating, these are the big groin areas, especially everything was live. We have also a platform called a mature X where we have gods can do LiveCap. They can do chatting and they can sell the content. This is this program. We have Germany since 15 years. And we, the German name was a better community, so that like amateur goods can do it.

And now we, we brought out a bunch of eggs. It’s the same system, but it’s more for international market. And you see that you see like only was only fans, these big platforms, it’s like sex, sex, going more into the social, social media style. It’s like, if people want to interact with the models, they want to be fans. They want, yeah. They, they don’t want their standards. Things. They want to personalize things like that. She say in the video, yeah.

Oh yeah, Bruce. Oh yeah. Bruce or whatever. So they want their own content. They want to personalize and more social. So it’s, it’s interactive. It, every, I think was interactive and dating is also very interactive because the users talk between each others. Also, we are with our platform in the U S the biggest platform in the U S we have it’s factbook.com. You see that, that is, that is, it’s like Facebook, but it’s for sex. So it’s very popular.

And a lot of people in a lot of interaction, and we don’t do nothing. We only bring the technical background. So let the people do their own stuff and they can talk. So interactive is the state. And of course, for all the new technology, VR, VR, it’s definitely something that the next year coming up, it’s still at the early age and still that’s few companies, but they’re already doing high quality. For example, we invested in a company called <inaudible> dot com that you see all the content in VR.

And I think that the cheaper, the better the technology go, you know, if you see one day in Walmart or Walmart, or in other, you know, in a big supermarket, you see very nice virtual reality glasses for $99. And then it goes mainstream, but everybody have these glasses and good quality at home. And all the computer players, they will buy because they love this VIT reality games. And I was testing some of these content and by myself and man, it looks really it’s.

It’s like your life was to go to the room. Of course there’s, since there’s some technical six foot, but when you use your hands, your heads, that’s no hands because you have only the eye, you can look, but then one day there are some Hollywood movies already where, where people only living in a virtual world. And I think it’s, it comes to this time

Speaker 0 (39m 9s): You had sex robots too. They can be part of that.

Speaker 1 (39m 12s): Yeah. But it’s not only for sex for me. For example, I would, when I come back from, from working, I like to put virtual reality or go scuba diving. At least I have, it’s not the same like real school, but at least I have the view I can go. So there’s a lot of cool thing. Was VR coming up. Cause the dirt industry will take it. Absolutely.

Speaker 0 (39m 35s): They’re always, we’re always at the front of those things. So how did you get the moniker, the traffic captain who gave it to you? Maybe you can tell us a story.

Speaker 1 (39m 45s): Well, it was like, I was always a boat. I grew up on the, the biotech CNOs of Germany. I lived in Venezuela on the sea. I was always with boats. So the captain, the captain was already there. So, and when I, and when I started with the was mobile, I made t-shirts and hoodies for my employees first. And then I was, I, of course I am. As the CEO, I had the captain and then my CML, he had first officer and then my CTO had navigator.

And by my employees, the other had crew. So, and of course the 2d is with the scanner on it. And, and it says only SGM. So it was not so offensive to where the street like Cisco’s mobile, people were pubs in the Jeep. It wasn’t SGM than the skull. And then your rag a little bit like the <inaudible> cool black hoodie. And then all our, all our affiliates, they wanted to have t-shirts and hoodies too.

So we made one of them. We put VIP and we only gave from, I think from the hoodies, we got, it gave only 100 away to our best affiliates. And they had the VI VIP logo on it. And that fall, we had some sexy, I don’t know, some six 60. I know where for our promotion girl, and it was SGI bakes. So we had four. So that comes out at that people started to call captain, kept the captain. And of course, because of the business, we put traffic captain, but most people that they only say, captain, they don’t say really traffic captain.

They said, Hey, captain, what’s up. I have also the domain. I put I some, some years ago, the domain captain dot triple X for, from Steve Winyard when he was working there. And I have, I have, I have a little WordPress site on it. So if you want to check out captive dot triple X, you see also also some information about me and my travel. It’s my awards. And my companies

Speaker 0 (41m 55s): I’ll check. I’ll check it out. Final question. I like to ask my guests this, what does Andy warmer like to do in his spare time?

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Yeah, scuba diving. I’m a scuba diver. I’m a rescue diver. I was scuba diver for 25 years. I, I wasn’t every ocean. I was swimming with sharks, wave sharks, turtles, sea lions, everything. It’s, that’s my, definitely my, one of my favorites hobbies. And of course I like <inaudible>

Speaker 0 (42m 30s): The, the, the party animal captain. All right, Andy. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adult site broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again.

Speaker 1 (42m 41s): Thank you, Bruce. And I would talk to you to make the video w for my YouTube channel. Thanks everybody for listening. Make, you know, follow this subscribe for this podcast. I’m sure Bruce will have a lot of more cool, interesting guests there and see you soon. Bye-bye

Speaker 0 (42m 56s): For tip today is part four of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your website, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it trademarking, your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends.

If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they are more likely to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or view porn, be creative, not just one of many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes on your site.

Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Maria of Best Studios.

And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Andy Wullmer. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Harry Varwijk.

Adult Site Broke is proud to announce a ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with ASB Cash you’ll have the chance to earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at asbcash.com for more details.First of all, today let’s cover what’s going on in our industry. Adult industry colleagues are rallying behind a GoFundMe campaign launched to assist Tim Lutz, the well-known community figure and co-founder of cyber socket with rising expenses. As he battles a recent diagnosis of brain cancer, the discovery and removal of a tumor in his brain has just become part of his journey.

1 (1m 18s):
And he refuses to succumb to fear notes. The intro from the GoFundMe campaign page for the past 30 years of his life, Tim has been consciously implementing a mindset to elevate his frequency and learn how to enjoy a better quality of life. He’s come to realize that when he exists in a pure state of love, he serves a purpose. His purpose to be love gives him the strong will to live a long, healthy and joyful life Tim’s plan is to not only survive, but to also thrive. Although Lutz has health insurance is out of pocket medical costs and other expenses are rapidly rising. It has always been easier for me to give and difficult for me to ask for help.

1 (2m 0s):
Thank you. In advanced all of my angels for your donations. He said, I am humbled and grateful for all of you and appreciate your consideration. Compassion, heartfelt kindness, and loving hearts, cyber socket, the pioneering LGBTQ publisher let’s co-founded with Morgan summer celebrates its 25th anniversary. Next January donate to his GoFundMe campaign by searching for Tim Lutz that’s L U T Z on fund me expert as award-winning performer, entrepreneur and pervert.com. Owner Lance Hart has launched his latest venture. Get me into porn.com with a stated aim to teach and train the next generation of performers.

1 (2m 46s):
How to navigate the wild wild world of adult. The new site utilizes the combined experience of performers, directors and producers. Candlebox Mickey Mohd, Todd Moore, Aiden, and heart among others member se this include video interviews and anonymous messaging system, online tutorials and mentorship by Regal and longstanding personalities in the adult industry said heart. I’m so excited to get this project launched and out into the world. He said during the pandemic, we’ve seen a huge influx of self-produced and amateur performers take up sex work to help make ends meet, and it found how extremely lucrative it can be.

1 (3m 29s):
Naturally many are ready to take the next step into professional productions, and we want to educate them on how to do it safely properly, and show them how to make their experience as positive as possible. He noted weekly updates are planned and affiliate program offers performers cam and clip sites, a $25 payout for referrals. Visit get me into porn.com and email Lance at perv out that’s P E R V O U t.com. For more details, the free speech coalition inspire program will host a webinar on tax preparation for adult industry workers tomorrow at 11:00 AM. Pacific time led by FSC industry relations advocate, Lotus lane with bookkeeper, Jesse Hornby tax preparer, Lauren foo Magali and adult industry laborers and artists association, founder, Mary Moody.

1 (4m 24s):
In addition to discussing and answering questions on tax filing issues, the group will speak to how performers can take advantage of forgivable loans from the PPP loan program. A rep explained and noted Fumagalli is a veteran performer and IRS enrolled agent. With 16 years of tax experience lane described the 2020 as a highly unusual financial year. For many performers, we’ve been getting so many questions online. We decided to put together an expert panel to discuss last minute filing issues for 2020, as well as PPP loans and strategies for reducing your tax burden in the year to come sex work is real work lane said, adult industry workers deserve the same resources and guidance as those who run mainstream businesses and the same support from the government.

1 (5m 14s):
This panel will help our workers understand how to access COVID support, better protect their businesses and legally reduce their tax burden. Visit free speech coalition.com for more detail, and to register. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker adult site broker is proud to offer for sale and adult pay site review platform. The site offers top discounts to the hottest networks and adult entertainment. In addition, they offer full length scenes to these sites. So surfers can sample the content. Also the scenes serve to keep the visitors engaged longer on the site. Then the traditional review site, they offer outstanding prices to adult networks on behalf of their visitors.

1 (5m 60s):
The surfers on the site will be hard pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time, Brazzers bang bros, and just about every other top adult network in site, they’ve been growing their email lists since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000 in the past six months, their unsubscribed rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well. This has boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding pay site review platform for only 956,000 us dollars.

1 (6m 47s):
Now time for this week’s interview,

2 (6m 50s):
My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Harry VAR. Weich Harry, thanks for being with us today and adult site broker talk,

3 (6m 58s):
Thank you for having me here. So mother

2 (7m 1s):
Now, now Harry’s been in the business since 2000 and in live cam, since their inception, Harry wears many hats. He’s alive cam webmaster for the night prowl studio network. He maintains websites for his company’s in-house models through an affiliate marketing program. He does live cam consultancy for cherry.tv. He performs content guarding of tube sites and doing DMC tasks. He’s part of the AWS summit team and he does media bias, Lincoln traffic traits, and I’m getting tired here and he maintained sponsor relationships of ADW media. So I guess I should ask you Harry, what you do in your free time

3 (7m 42s):
Playing games. That’s a way to unwind.

2 (7m 47s):
There you go. Okay. Now let’s start with one of your projects, cherry TV. Now this is one of the newer campsites out there. Why don’t you tell me more about this platform and how it’s different from some of its competitors?

3 (8m 2s):
Well, the platform itself is, is not debt different from competitors. So it is a freemium platform, which means that models have this other way of broadcasting instead of being on a premium website. The difference here, however, is that the management behind cherry TV is based, based and build up with marketing experts from industry mainstream and adults. They have a combined experience of more of more than 20 years, which is, which is pretty, pretty much needed to upset the Lifecare markets, because this is what charity view is going to do. They are going to upset the life care markets, meaning the bigger premium science house have always done.

3 (8m 52s):
They’re very good, but it is time it time for a little bit of change. And especially because the game-ification part of the web site adds a new layer to the whole webcam experience itself rewards the spenders and it rewards the models. The reward system is also different than other webcam science, meaning even if a model is online and she has contributed her time to the website, but she did not earn any revenue. She will still receive a reward. She will still be compensated for her time.

2 (9m 34s):
That’s fantastic from a model standpoint.

3 (9m 37s):
Absolutely. And I think a Bartel needs to focus on models and her needs and especially regarding payouts daily payouts is, is, is just one of the things which separates them from the big box campsites, right? One pressure on a button and, and, and 20 minutes later you have your money too. That’s great. Yes, it is. It is.

2 (10m 5s):
That brings, that brings daily payouts to a new level.

3 (10m 10s):
Yes. And I think it’s, it matches a little bit the situation off the mouth. I mean, sometimes they are four or five days of life and not making money and still waiting for the periodic payouts. Then why not hit the bail button on the moment you go on a holiday. So you have your cash always with you. Nice, nice.

2 (10m 34s):
Now it seems there’s a new campsite. Every time I turn around, what’s the state of the live cam market now.

3 (10m 43s):
Okay, well, we are still maturing. Meaning webcam sites are still trying to serve and the audience and the models at the same time. I mean, let’s say it like this. We, we have the goal to give pleasure on, on a cam site and measures is just a shortened of sensation. What we want to attribute is to have a happiness feeling. That’s a web web site has a relation with the webcam model that she feels secure. That is really important to have.

3 (11m 24s):
And I do agree with you every time you work, them sites come up, but they disappear also just as, just as fast people are overestimating the markets, definitely they think, wow, I put up a domain, I put up a script and boom, the money rolls in. This is just not how it works. You practice always. Absolutely.

2 (11m 48s):
Now do you think there’s still an opportunity for new people to come in and start a live cam site and make money?

3 (11m 56s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think this year, new, new webcam sites will come up too, that there are always people who she enough opportunity and there is always a rainbow with a pot of gold on yet, but you just have to go for it. The marketing responsibility, the energy that comes in to make a brand run online. It’s tremendous. I mean, I’m a little bit of webcams side needs to understand that in the first two years, they will hardly make any profit at all. All the money will go back into development, into maintenance staff people.

3 (12m 36s):
So I encourage people always to start new projects. But I do know that if I don’t see these qualifications in them, which good websites have that I will see them disappear at the end of the year, I got used to that. We have seen at least 15 people come and 15 people go in in the last five years alone.

2 (12m 59s):
Now starting a new webcam site, if you want to do it right, obviously it takes a ton of money. If you were starting in the business fresh today, where would you invest your money?

3 (13m 13s):
I would invest my money in making relations with cam models that already have a strong representation online. And I would probably try to invest money in having them on my portal to, to get some first attention. I would invest my money in their social media because they already have a tremendous amount of clients that have trust in them. And I will do my best to keep those models on my sites and, and try to have them generate traffic.

2 (13m 43s):
Now you do affiliate marketing for models. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. You were saying

3 (13m 51s):
No, no, no problem. I just wanted to say that. It sounds easier as that it really is. Of course.

2 (13m 57s):
Okay. Now will you cut out for a second? Sorry. You do affiliate marketing for models. How exactly does that work?

3 (14m 7s):
Okay, well, this is a really wide topic. I will give you a small example is a model

2 (14m 16s):
We got, we got time. Go for it. Okay.

3 (14m 18s):
If, if the model works individual from home, her first contact with the sponsor is cited as a model. Then when she goes into her member promo tools, you will also find options to hire her payouts by sending traffic directly to her room through, through, and the campaign link here is where it becomes interesting because many models missed the opportunity to sign up as an monster on the website. They are working as a model so they can actually add an extra layer of income, which is around 25, 30% to the general revenue damn making gift at clients.

3 (15m 5s):
As long as they become an affiliate, I can set up and own that site. They can make a promo call tool. They can have a chat widget with just Dem inside, put on their own websites under the affiliate code. So they build up an excellent defense, which 90% of the models are missing on this moment right now. So what I’m doing is I’m telling the models, Hey, look, here’s where your opportunities are. Here’s where you can sign up as a webmaster. Here is where you can download a WordPress application. And here is a module hosts with a $10 package a month to get you independent.

3 (15m 47s):
And then they actually try it out. And they find out that besides selling their own webcam that time they can also put for party product products on their own website and make income with other programs and shallowly. They are not only a webcam model, but they are also webmaster of their own sites. So it it’s, it’s just about adding opportunities to, to, to their account and taking profits from the fact that they already have spending clients. And if, if a model decides to be on a holiday for her clients can still go to her website, try some other products or spend time with another girl, but the model will still be rewarded for it.

3 (16m 35s):
So she can allow her men, her models, or their members to cheat with other models. And she gets an income from it. How, how widely is this done in the industry? Not very widely it’s here is where on the communities on the chem communities here is where it stagnates, meaning a contact between a model and a contact between the webmaster is being seen as a competitive fit. And I have no idea why, and I don’t know why they keep keeping this feeling up, but model that webmasters are taking that time, that we only want to work together with them.

3 (17m 16s):
So we can have some free sessions in their group, which is completely absurd when we are not into a context like this, we just want to put out traffic on a webcam model that knows how to generate it. So when I go into the cam community in the cam communities, and, and I’m actually speaking with a model that has, has done a lot of work, it has experienced, then I will propose an extra, additional income to her website. And we’ve her experience-based. She gets the point. She understands, Oh, I can also become a web master of my own product.

3 (18m 1s):
And it’s it’s, it has to do with the experience and how people she webmasters and his industry, and 80 to 90% sees us as competition. And they make comments like, okay, you sent us traffic, but you take a part of our income. Why you do that? And then we have to tell them, yeah, but this is what the site emphasizes. While you work on that, they have their own traffic. Where do you think your traffic comes from? It comes from the webmasters. Okay. I agree. Some campsites have their own in-house marketing department for all in-house traffic, so they don’t have to pay webmasters for it. But a majority of the traffic still comes from the affiliates.

2 (18m 44s):
That’s awesome. That’s something I had never heard before. Now. Now content piracy is a big issue today. How much of your time is spent on that area of your business? And how’s it going

3 (18m 59s):
Way too much? The DCMA tasks are taking way too much time, especially because we have to communicate with a market that hides behind a wall, a lot of Russian communication, which goes into nothing. I can say that 60% of the videos are being removed successfully within four weeks. And I think at least 40 options. And I’m pretty sharp on this number around 40% ignores my request and they will play it out as, as, as long as they can.

3 (19m 40s):
Of course, I have to go to channels like Google and hosting, and I have to come up with documentation stamps and all that stuff. It takes way too much time. And it’s a nice, not sure position for this too. I mean, but sometimes these services are hand in hand with the scamming webmasters, meaning they steal on the other sides and they go into a forum and offer that removal. Sure. There’s still another personality. So you are dealing with the fee and you are dealing with the person who’s who, who claims to clean up the mess, defeat me. And in the meantime, you’re all talking to one in the same person.

3 (20m 21s):
So it’s a, it’s, it’s a, it’s a portion of a work that I rather not have comes with. A lot of stress comes with emotions. I could go without it to be almost. Yeah.

2 (20m 34s):
Yeah. That’s gotta be really frustrating. Especially if it’s one in the same person.

3 (20m 40s):
Yes, yes, absolutely. The research that goes into it and the energy and efforts that you have to do, they are not, and they don’t give you a shit affectional feeling at all.

2 (20m 51s):
When freemium websites popped up, how much panic did you feel considering the sites you owned were

3 (20m 59s):
Premium? I can tell you honestly, when the first premium side popped up, I was just being happy with, with my lifetime revenue spenders on the premium science on the moment I saw chatter beds coming up, my world literally turned upside down. I, I had problems accepting them, meaning it took me at least one and a half till two years before I decided to really examine the science and to check the affiliate program. But in the beginning I was not happy with it. I knew that it will crash a few of my lifetime, spend this into nothing, which obviously it did.

3 (21m 44s):
And I was forced to go along with it, but it took me almost two years mentally before I started to accept that this is how it was, was not a nice feeling. Now, when I look back, I’m pretty extreme, happy that freemium has come up. It’s it’s it has given results and situations, which I didn’t foresee that would happen. And I’m really happy. It did.

2 (22m 15s):
It’s obviously a tried and true format.

3 (22m 19s):
Absolutely. Yes. Every portal has his own group of models. You have freemium models and you have premium models. Freemium models are mostly younger, have more creativity, exploit the industry more in their own benefits and premium is really one-on-one. So it’s pretty exclusive. It’s like a girlfriend experience. You can not put more creativity in there. It’s like a talk with a shrink. Now

2 (22m 51s):
They’re both freemium and premium cam sites, which ones are doing better.

3 (22m 57s):
You mean which one is in my eyes? The best freemium website?

2 (23m 1s):
No, between just the model of freemium and the model of premium, which ones do you think are doing better? And why is that? And of course you can tell me who you think the best star of, of each, each model.

3 (23m 18s):
Well, let’s, let’s stay on this example of charter badge because that science has earned their position in the market. Even if it brought me some competitive thinking in the beginning, I think they have improved the situation for models. I am not comparing chanter bank with anything else. So D they are on top for me, for the freemiums and the other sites. I really give much attention for wow. Our top priority. Why? Because since 2008, they, they have intensified a diminishment towards models and, and webmasters by having forums online for just us, by communicating with us a lot, asking feedback, coming with customized promo tools, coming with upgrades, I would say life just meaning chapter Bay are the two top sites and it’s regarding freemium and premium.

3 (24m 22s):
That will be that, that will be not much of a change in, in this year.

2 (24m 28s):
Well, what do you think? Which, which of the two models do you think is better though?

3 (24m 33s):
And, and on, on what kind of a model, what kind of performer you are? I, I would say free freemium is a good start for people who are new in this industry. So they can develop an identity. They, if they, they can find a role in which they, they, they prefer best on a line. And I, I, I, I do think that people going to premium do best when they have experienced from the freemium. This is regarding communication, how to talk to a client, how, how to connect with him on an emotional level, how to entice them to provoke and to flirt.

3 (25m 16s):
This is, this is something that is on premium, more on the focus and on freemium. It is more a group show. It’s it’s it’s you, you, you chip in together with, with other guys to keep the show going and to keep her having this loss in, in, in her private areas. It’s, it’s, it’s a different kind of sensation premium service I’ve seen in service are, are, are trying to chase premium is exclusive. One-on-one, it’s, it’s more personal than, than freemium. So it’s these two differences also splits up the models.

3 (25m 59s):
You have models who are open to, to be exclusive with, with, with one person to open themselves up and to be entertaining and, and, and enticing on freemium. There is not much of the intelligence needed to, to keep this person in the room. It’s if one leaves your chat room, two, others will come in. So it’s it’s about what, what does Sherver is, is, is trying to search for exclusivity or just a quick Wang. And this is where freemium and premium are different from each other. It’s the exclusive freedom.

2 (26m 39s):
If you were starting a cam site today, which one would you pick and why?

3 (26m 46s):
Yeah. Which business model I would pick, I would pick the freemium because I will reach a wide audience regarding performance and service. And I will definitely stay away from premium because it’s, it’s expensive to two brands. It comes with a different business model. I would be more shaved to go for a Freeman side. Yeah. Sorry. I want to say, especially because the big premium players already taken that place, they already won the trust of a large group of spenders.

3 (27m 31s):
And they will keep that trust for, for years to come. So to come up with a premium side right away, and to declare war and competition, that’s not going to help. I will definitely go for the freedom to start off with.

2 (27m 44s):
Now, when you found out that models had no idea that most traffic comes from webmasters, how did you feel? And what did you do about it?

3 (27m 55s):
To be honest in the beginning, it was a little bit frustrated because as a webmaster, you search continuously for acknowledgement of your position here in the market, and you just want to be seen, or you just want to be a part of success. So when a life has made client, Hey, we are so big EDI. We, we webmasters of five, just me and the, we want to take some credit for, for, for that too. Right. We want to say, Hey, it was all in a joint joint efforts to make it big. Now you need to repeat the question. Can the girls, I was a little bit distressed by your question.

2 (28m 41s):
Okay. So when you, okay, will you, when you found out models had no idea that most traffic came from webmasters, how did you feel? And then what did you do about it?

3 (28m 53s):
Yeah. Okay. So the part, what do we do about it? We are still trying to install a short of an idea of what a landmark.

2 (29m 4s):
Okay. Like, so, so when you talked earlier about going on the boards and things like that,

3 (29m 10s):
You speak to individual person, they all have their opinions and they all think different about it. What I do know this, I can community foremost, together, they can share experiences. They can share problems, they have or solutions, but to communicate between demand and supply. And that is not being a stable established on communities. It is however, a great place for a woman to talk with another woman and, and share some experiences on that they have on different websites. There is no such thing as them trying to market themselves more and, and communicating towards webmaster seems that there is still an invisible wall between two people.

4 (29m 58s):
Do you react to charge backs and drops in sales that are on

3 (30m 2s):
Unexpected? Well, Louisa, I can be very honest. A chargeback feels like somebody is kicking me so hard in the balls and crying for the day. Stucco or chargeback is, is a personal thing. It’s you start to doubt your models, the quality you start to think. Did I do something wrong in the click flow on my sites? Did I gave him the feeling he had to spend? Was he manipulated a chargeback, comes with a tremendous amount of emotions during the years. Of course it becomes part of the game, but it still feels incredibly professional.

3 (30m 46s):
And yes, I understand stair damage fraud online. And mostly when I requested sites to investigate the charge back into give me an exact reason, I will be happy when it says one of those stolen cards, then I’m like, okay, cool. That’s that’s nice. The guy got this money back. The bank did the responsible thing. This is how the industry should work. I, if it, if, if it comes like, yeah, he was manipulated by a model, he was cheated. I feel personally bad because I did brought him to do website. I did told him he would have a great time with this model and still it didn’t work, worked out.

3 (31m 28s):
So it charged back comes, comes in with incredibly messy emotions. And it takes a few days before those emotions are dying off. And I’m back to my old shelf. Again, my biggest charge back was $19,000. And my small charge back was around $7. But the warm of $19,000 happened seven years ago, woke up on a Sunday morning and I was $90,000 in the red. That was an incredibly hard thing. It took me around a half a year to get that account back to zero. Yeah.

4 (32m 6s):
Yeah. I can only imagine. How about other drops in sales? How do you respond to those? Well,

3 (32m 14s):
When you read statistics and when,

4 (32m 18s):
When you read numbers,

3 (32m 20s):
You start to understand where it comes from, where is it going wrong? What part of the website is, is, is, is doing bad check and faces to, to other solutions, but to find out where the drop comes from, that is already the biggest reward, fixing it. That is something that it’s not a problem. It will take some time, but to know where it comes from, we just statistics in such a way that you know, where it is leaking, that you know, where things are down. That means that you have a good oversight. And that is a party, the biggest desk here, reading the numbers and try to convert them to text and try to find out where it comes from.

3 (33m 5s):
Find a problem you can fix it. Sure.

2 (33m 9s):
That goes with anything, by the way, getting back to chargebacks in the, in the chargeback industry, when someone charges back for something that they actually consumed, they use the term friendly fraud. I what’s, what’s friendly. What’s friendly about that.

3 (33m 29s):
There is nothing friendly about that through failure, totally agreeing with you. As soon as the word chargeback comes up, all the words associated to it are mostly negative, unless it was a stolen card and the guy got his money returns. Then we get the responsible thing as, as, as, as an industry. But for the rest, there is nothing friendly about the chargeback. Nothing

2 (33m 53s):
Indeed. Now, can you explain the term? And it’s used a lot girlfriend experience, it’s a little bit different on cams than it does out here in Thailand and R and R people kind of chasing the dragon with love online.

3 (34m 10s):
Yes. So we have this girlfriend experience. It’s a white concept. I mean, it can go into every direction. I will see a girl and think, Hey, she looks like my first girlfriends. You go into the room and you have a nice conversation and, and you’ll get these emotions back. And when you start liking a person, just because she talks nicely or she, or how, the way she thinks that’s already a connection. If I am with a like-minded model communicating, she doesn’t have to go naked for me to still have that experience that I’m happy. And of course, between pleasure and happiness, there is a big thing.

3 (34m 54s):
Now, a girlfriend experience is, is category on their happiness pleasure to go away after five, 10 minutes, happiness, happiness, emotion, just girlfriend experience with a model. Then I definitely want to talk a little bit more refer, and this might be two, three times a week, and maybe I develop an emotion. And I think, you know what? I don’t feel bad spending $200 a month on an exclusive experience begins with the same $200 on, on dinners. We, with an offline girl, the girlfriend experiences is, is it a term I use for chats that are longer than 40 minutes and where a client is at at least two or three times a week checks in we the model, just to say a friendly word or, or, or have a little talk and doing a member session, maybe in the weekends or on the Sunday evening, but longer.

3 (35m 52s):
And with more quality, so more texts, more and more exchange of emotions. They’re actually interested in each other. They’re asking for family, Hey, how’s your family doing? What are you doing for work? It all creates these little lines that she’s throwing to him, which she can use the next time again, to continue that bill from experience. When he comes in next week, she was, how was the meeting? Did your boss gave you the compliment that you were shooting for? Did you finish the project? As soon as this member has the idea, Hey, she’s actually thinking about me. That is already a girlfriend experience by being taken serious.

3 (36m 36s):
You don’t have to be in one room with dispersion to still have this emotion. That’s why I used that girlfriend experience term a lot. I like it. It’s it’s it sounds friendlier. And it’s it’s it has a social. Yeah. You will hear me use that word until the end of time. Because in the end, we shell a little bit of proportionality the shell time and all we are not at the red light district in Amsterdam. I mean, Dara is very, now you stand in front of a window, you go in, you negotiate 10 minutes later, you are out. That is, that is exactly what, what we don’t want to have online.

3 (37m 17s):
So yes, of course we have to tell to a model that every client is a human being and should be considered as well and taken serious,

1 (37m 27s):
Certainly the best way for people to conduct themselves in any space. And Cam’s included. Well, Harry, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your website design. Up-to-date do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success.

1 (38m 10s):
If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’ll end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes.

1 (38m 51s):
People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor. You have to competitors clearly doing everything better. Again, emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’ll lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They’ll click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for. If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Leanne young

0 (39m 38s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Harry Varwijk. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

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