Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Aerie Saunders of Sex Worker Sites and I G F Studios. At Adult Site Broker we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts on ASB Cash.

Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us, you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASBcash.com for more details and to sign up.

We’ve also added an event section to our website at adultsitebroker.com.

Now you can get information on B2B events on our website, as well as special discounts reserved for our clients. Go to adultsitebroker.com for more details. Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer a gay blog that’s been in business for over 12 years. The blog highlights new talent in the gay space, gay porn news, mainstream gossip, and adjust for fun section. The members area has lots of gay content you won’t find in the free content area.

The site only takes 25 hours a week to maintain. The monthly costs are minimal, so the site is very profitable. There’s an email list of over 29,000 and the site has over 165,000 social media followers. It has great potential for growth if it’s purchased by a larger company or a small one where the owner will put in a little more time. There are over 600 member posts, including videos and images. The traffic is all organic, direct and social media.

No ads have been purchased, so there’s great potential for growth if the owner invests in advertising users come primarily from the usa, the UK and Australia, only $450,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is a Saunders. Ari, thanks for being back with us again on Adult Site Broker Talk. That makes four times. Now you’re brave.

Speaker 2 (2m 44s): Well, you’re just one of my favorite people. You know, I’ve gotta show up. I gotta get that time in with you.

Speaker 1 (2m 50s): Likewise, likewise. Maybe one of these days we actually can meet in person. That’s, that’s the funny part. Good

Speaker 2 (2m 56s): Luck getting me outta my house.

Speaker 1 (2m 58s): This is, I guess I have to go there. Okay, we’ll tell everyone about you. Aria’s a 26 year old adult entertainer and entrepreneur. She’s worked on many projects over her eight years in the industry, while the bread and butter of her operation has always been performing as a webcam model and content creator. She also has a passion for web development and design. We’ll talk more about that later. Adult industry advocacy, blogging, mentorship, and promotional material design. That’s a mouthful. You may recognize your name from projects including Webcam Startup, the Cam Land Podcast, adult Model Mentors, and W C S U News.

Her latest ventures are working for IGF Studios as a mentor and manager, as well as her own new project. Yes, another new one. Sex Worker Sites. She’s also been nominated for a number of awards. For more information, you can go to her website, r a Saunders, and let me spell that. A E r i e S A U N D E R s.com. IGF Studios was founded by adult industry veteran Lydia Love and centers around her experience on the adult webcam vertical, which allowed her to achieve financial and social success.

Lydia created IGF Studios with one simple idea, wanting to prevent models from making the same mistake she made in her early career and give them the knowledge she did not have access to. With this motivation in mind, Lydia created a strong team of people, including Ari and Lydia’s assistant Ashley. They’ve generated many resources and tools as a team to create a positive and uplifting environment for new or seasoned webcam models. IGF Studios was curated to provide every performer and potential model with the opportunity to transition from a cam novice to a cam star sex workers’ sites was a passion project started by Ari, who wanted to take he self-taught experience developing websites and implement it into a cost effective and convenient way to provide fellow sex workers with the ability to have their own websites.

In light of the recent spike in social media censorship and everyone should have their own website as a blogger herself, she also recognizes the immense value and importance of search engine optimization and how owning the search results for your personal brand can help limit the viewership of pirate websites and better connect you with your audience. So Ari, let’s start with sex worker sites. I know you love web development and design, but is that your only inspiration for launching sex worker sites, or is there more?

Speaker 2 (5m 37s): There’s definitely more. I also wanna apologize for giving you that mouthful to say, oh my goodness, you must be out of breath. But anyway, I’m,

Speaker 1 (5m 46s): I know I’m not just outta breath, I’m tired.

Speaker 2 (5m 50s): So my main motivation for getting started with sex worker sites is the fact that recently there’s been a lot of de platforming and censorship of sex workers on social media and most internet platforms in general, whether it’s an app on your phone, something you log into on the computer, if you look at the community guidelines or terms of service, there’s usually something sneaky in there that tries to prohibit sex workers from utilizing these platforms, whether it’s for promoting themselves or simply just existing on the platforms.

Speaker 1 (6m 24s): Right?

Speaker 2 (6m 25s): So having your own website is super important because at any given time you could have your social media taken away, you could have, you know, somewhere where you’re connecting with customers taken away from you with your own website. That doesn’t happen. It doesn’t just disappear out from under you.

Speaker 1 (6m 43s): Right, right. So I browsed the site and saw you do more than just website builds. Can you tell me more about the other services you offer?

Speaker 2 (6m 53s): Sure, thanks. So I offer a ton of different ways to promote yourself from Twitch overlays, stream overlays, graphic designs for promoting sales you have going on, new content releases, chatter bait, night flirt profiles, pretty much everything that is pretty and glitzy and that you would want to look upscale for your sites is something that I offer. I’m very experienced, I’m self-taught, and I’ve always made my own content for promotion.

So it’s something that I put a lot of heart and time into and it’s something that I’ve always genuinely enjoyed doing.

Speaker 1 (7m 31s): So you’re self-taught, nobody told you how to do it, you didn’t take any classes or anything?

Speaker 2 (7m 38s): Nope. Everything I’ve learned is Googling YouTube videos and my background. When I was younger, I had a Tumblr page and I would design my own theme from my Tumblr page on like a semi-regular basis. So I literally learned how to do H T M L coding from just years of doing that.

Speaker 1 (7m 57s): You got one over me. I keep saying I’m gonna take an H T M L course, but now with AI I don’t even need to, so hey, I go the lazy way. There must have been a lot of trial and error over the years in learning to do it yourself.

Speaker 2 (8m 13s): Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I, I break things all the time, but then I don’t give up until I also fix things. So it’s something that, you know, as a self-taught person, it can be frustrating at times, but also once I’ve mastered something, it’s just a great thing to add under my belt. I mean, when I first started offering websites, I could pretty much only make a basic layout and now I’m at the point where I can build a cryptocurrency video storefront, like it’s crazy.

Speaker 1 (8m 44s): So this is interesting because on one hand you’re a content creator, so that is normally a personality that’s very outgoing and out there and talking to the, you know, to the users and doing cams and doing all that. But on the other hand, you’re a tech person and you’re behind the scenes and those people are usually very introverted. So tell me about that.

Speaker 2 (9m 13s): So I in real life am an introvert, but online I’m an extrovert and I think that has worked really well, especially with the current environment of the internet. People love nerdy girls. Tech is so popular right now. People love tech. I mean, people are starting to stream from home with the frequency at which, like if you go to five below, they have streamer kits that you can get for $5 now. Hmm. So it’s something that’s becoming a household thing and just being able to bring my own personality and spin to it with all of the things and the business to business experience that I have and my interest in general is so much fun.

And like if you see me in real life, I spend most of my time in pajamas. I wear glasses, I always have my headset on, like I’m a, I’m a big old nerd. I will be a hundred percent honest with you, but I have that alter personality that is hot and feels like being hot. And when she wants to be hot, we get on cam.

Speaker 1 (10m 14s): That’s interesting. So what is what, what is a streaming package? You got me on that one.

Speaker 2 (10m 22s): So the common things that you can get right now are like ring lights and tripods and all sorts of just different things to help you make your setup look a little more professional.

Speaker 1 (10m 33s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (10m 34s): Yeah. You can get these packages like on Amazon at five below. Sometimes even like Walmart will have them, they just like make these cute little things. Sometimes they put backdrops in there, but yeah, it’s just supposed to help you make your stream set up or content recording set up look more professional.

Speaker 1 (10m 52s): Yeah, I gotta do, I gotta do some of that for some of my, like when I do Google meet and Zoom calls, I see people with cool backgrounds, but I just know nothing about tech, so I, I’m gonna need your help on that. So what about ai? Obviously AI is like all the thing right now. Are you learning ai? Are you utilizing ai?

Speaker 2 (11m 17s): I’m currently utilizing AI for small tasks. AI is still at a point where it’s still exclusionary to the adult industry. Like chat G B T will not allow you to make requests for like domain suggestions if it’s relevant to the adult industry. So it’s kind of, it’s tricky with AI in the adult industry. There is a place for it and there are some programs that you can even use just for fun. Like I used one today that looked at my Twitter profile and made me a rap about myself, a new like detailed bio about myself.

So that was cool, but I don’t use it in a professional capacity yet. As much as I just use it for entertainment.

Speaker 1 (12m 1s): You know, I heard today as we, as we record this towards the end of April, that Elon Musk now owns the domain and he also registered a company X ai.

Speaker 2 (12m 15s): That’s exciting but scary because I don’t love what he’s done with Twitter.

Speaker 1 (12m 21s): Elon Musk is scary.

Speaker 2 (12m 23s): He has a lot of power and a lot of big ideas and I just hope he has a team that has the moral upstanding to guide him in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (12m 31s): Yeah, I don’t know about that, but he’s, I just think the man’s nuts. He’s brilliant, but he’s nuts. So what is your favorite part about designing websites specifically for sex workers?

Speaker 2 (12m 46s): My favorite part about it is getting to help sex workers express their true self. Because a lot of the websites that we currently use don’t offer a lot of customization. So being able to portray your own personality through your own website is huge in making a connection with your customer and allowing them to see into what it is you’re looking to offer and who you are as a person a little bit more. And as we know with sex work and camming content creation in general, a big selling point is being unique and having your own personality.

So giving yourself the space to advertise that is something that’s super important.

Speaker 1 (13m 26s): Do you find yourself giving counseling to some of your website clients about that?

Speaker 2 (13m 33s): Oh yeah. I, I always dive into like, hey, do you have a list of keywords that you used to describe yourself? And if you don’t, why not? Let’s brainstorm. I am obsessed with helping people identify their personality because obviously you can go for a minimalistic website and it will get the point across and have all the information that you need, but even tiny little creative flares like your favorite color or little tidbits of information about you can make something so much more personal.

Speaker 1 (14m 3s): Right. You know, I went to a saunders.com and I, I hadn’t been to your website before actually, which is amazing and I was quite impressed actually. And I was looking at all the categories that you cover and I mean, tell me about the process of putting that together.

Speaker 2 (14m 25s): That’s funny you mentioned that. I literally just took a few hours the other day to redo my website because I had it, I had a completely different website set up before, but I didn’t like it. I didn’t feel like it fit my vibe. Right now I’m feeling more goth and dommy right now, so I made my website black. But yeah, I used to have like a bubbly pink and blue kind of website. But yeah, throwing that together was, for me, it’s very easy because obviously I’ve been doing this for years now. It’s something I just log on and I have a goal in mind, but it just comes to me naturally.

There’s no secret sauce or anything. I just open it and I know what I wanna do and I do it.

Speaker 1 (15m 2s): Talk about what’s on the website.

Speaker 2 (15m 4s): Oh goodness. So on my website personally, I have my smallest package on my website right now. So it’s what sex worker sites offers for $85 on lifetime hosting. So it’s basically just pictures of me, some information about me. I have little advertisements for things that I want to really promote on the side, a signup section for my newsletter, a list of other projects that I’m working on, and then all of my links to all of the adult sites that I’m on a little section to send me gifts or shop my wishlist, stuff like that.

And then a section for ordering custom content. And then at the top of my website, since everybody’s social media hungry, I have all of my social media links.

Speaker 1 (15m 50s): How often do you remake it?

Speaker 2 (15m 53s): Honestly, whenever I feel like there’s a massive change in my vibe and personality, I will hop on there and change it. I would say I probably do it like four to six times a year, which is a little too much. I should really slow down, but sometimes I want something more complex and sometimes I like it simple.

Speaker 1 (16m 10s): So basically it’s based on your mood?

Speaker 2 (16m 12s): Yeah, whenever I don’t have an ongoing website project happening, I’m like, all right, time to tinker with mine.

Speaker 1 (16m 20s): You just better make sure that when people go to it, they’re not like, oh no, this isn’t the right site.

Speaker 2 (16m 25s): Hey, I always have a maintenance page if I mess with it.

Speaker 1 (16m 29s): Okay. So how many websites have you designed since launching Sex Worker Sites in September of 22? And talk about some of the highlights.

Speaker 2 (16m 39s): I think I’m at 16 now. I have worked on quite a few websites. Some of my favorite ones, I created a cryptocurrency storefront for someone where they can sell videos, photo sets, tangible items, just different stuff like that. And the cool thing about the cryptocurrency plugin that I’m utilizing is it automatically runs a check to make sure the transaction was made. So it’s very streamlined and it just goes straight to your crypto wallet and then delivers on the WordPress end if it goes through.

So it’s super convenient. And just seeing that in action and seeing somebody able to take payments basically, you know, uncensored and no concerns about like credit card processing rules and stuff like that was super, super awesome. It was definitely a passion project for me.

Speaker 1 (17m 32s): Talk about the whole idea of crypto. Obviously crypto has been more than volatile lately and it’s used a lot in the adult industry for obvious reasons. What do you think the future is for crypto and adult or the future for crypto period?

Speaker 2 (17m 51s): I think with the limitations on cryptocurrency worldwide, it’s becoming less viable as an alternative payment method, unfortunately because there’s been so much cracking down. But for people who live in countries where it is still a viable option, it is definitely worth looking into, especially if you cater to fetishes because as these credit card companies continue to crack down and make their rules more and more intense and continue to censor certain fetishes and niches, you’re going to want a way to still sell to that client base.

The client base doesn’t go away just because a keyword gets banned, they’re still there. You just need to find a way to market that content to them. And obviously I’m talking about things that are morally sound but not necessarily sound in eyes of credit card companies. Obviously some of the negatives are you can use crypto for bad things, but you shouldn’t. And that’s just from, you know, a moral standpoint.

Speaker 1 (18m 50s): No, that’s very true. But I mean, do you think crypto will continue to be viable?

Speaker 2 (18m 56s): I hope so. I know that a lot of countries have been cracking down on it. A lot of Asian countries in particular have been cracking down on cryptocurrency. But yeah, hopefully it stays viable in the us I think as long as people continue to claim their taxes on cryptocurrency that it won’t become a huge issue. But it’s just another one of those situations where with everything that you take money for online, cash out as soon as you can and get it, you know, real money in your hand.

Speaker 1 (19m 29s): Yeah, but I think that it’s just, it’s so difficult for governments to track it and get all their taxes on something like that, that it really comes down to the honor system. And then the question is, are people being honest?

Speaker 2 (19m 45s): Well we could have a whole second podcast about how I feel about taxes in the government, but I think if you want a crypto storefront right now, it’s not a bad time to do it. And actually I feel like cryptocurrency was more volatile previously than it is currently. I think it definitely has hit a more comfortable point as far as accepting payments and knowing that you’re not gonna lose too much or gain too much on it. Obviously we wanna gain, but you know, you’re more likely to not take a loss at this point.

Speaker 1 (20m 17s): Yeah, it’s not going up and down 30, 40% a day. It’s staying fairly stable within five points say.

Speaker 2 (20m 26s): Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (20m 28s): Okay, so what does the price point of a website built by you look like at this point?

Speaker 2 (20m 35s): So it starts at $85 and that’s my lowest low plan. If you look@asaunders.com actually you’ll get to see what $85 will get you and it also includes lifetime hosting on my server. Depending on the complexity of your site, it can scale. I’ve never charged more than a thousand dollars for a site. I’m sure if somebody brought me a crazy project that would take me hours and hours, you know, I could find a way to charge a thousand for one. But I love doing it, so I, I haven’t gotten to that point where I’ve ever charged someone out the ass for a website yet.

I just, it’s something I enjoy doing. So you definitely get a more discounted version of what you would pay most other website designers just because I have fun. Like if you have fun at work, you get a little happier just doing it. So I’m more than willing to accept less for it.

Speaker 1 (21m 32s): You know, Ari, one of the things I really, really admire about you is that everything you’ve done, everything we’ve talked about, this is our fourth time doing a podcast, is that it’s always about helping, it’s always about mentoring, it’s always about giving suggestions. Tell me about that and you know why you are that way and what made you start to want to give back?

Speaker 2 (22m 5s): Well, when I first got started Webcaming, I was clueless. I didn’t know that they didn’t take the taxes out of what they pay you. Like I literally had no idea what was going on. And I mean I started fresh at 18, so if that gives you any indication, it was three days after my 18th birthday. I was as stupid as stupid comes. So basically when I first got started, I had a group of people that found me on Cam and one of these customers that became my regular at the time was like, if you have any questions, I’m friends with this other CAM model and I’m sure she’d be willing to help you.

So I actually reached out to her and she sent me a huge long email answering my questions and was just, anytime I needed something I could send her a message and she’d reply very quickly. And then I realized that that’s something that people don’t have access to cuz a lot of people are kind of just mean. Like she didn’t have to do that for me. I wasn’t paying her, I wasn’t providing her anything, she was doing it to be kind. And that made a big impression on me and I realized it doesn’t take that much extra time out of my day to do what I do with the idea that kindness is at the base of it.

So even for things that you know, I have to charge for, obviously like websites because hosting and domains and all of that costs money, I still wanna make sure that I’m doing it out of kindness and doing it at a rate that I feel like is fair because I just wanna be able to provide a service that I can be proud of and I wouldn’t be proud of my service if I was just doing it out of greed. I want to do something that I know is making a positive impact.

Speaker 1 (23m 46s): Okay. Tell me about adult Model Mentors. Is that still a thing and how’s that going?

Speaker 2 (23m 54s): That is still a thing. Me, Katie are kind of on hiatus right now because exciting news here, we got offered a sponsored podcast on many of it. It actually starts on April 23rd. Nice. So a few days,

Speaker 1 (24m 7s): It’ll have already started when we run this found mention that, yeah,

Speaker 2 (24m 11s): It runs for two months. I believe we’re doing eight episodes biweekly on Sundays. But yeah, it is still very much a thing and we’re looking to allocate more time to it. But obviously, you know, me and Katie have 47 million projects going on at any given time, but she is still offering active consultations. I am as well and we’re looking to put more time into our blog shortly. We just gotta get over this hump of planning our podcast.

Speaker 1 (24m 38s): Well you keep starting new projects.

Speaker 2 (24m 42s): I’ve also, I love blogging, don’t get me wrong, right. But sometimes it’s a little hard for me to like sit down and think of topics to write about because I can do it in podcast form or video form or like hold a meeting with the studio that we’ll be talking about in a little bit. So I’ve gotten very much into just talking instead of typing and that’s my bad, but I need to work on that.

Speaker 1 (25m 6s): Yeah, I, I hire writers so it makes it a little easier for me. Although I do have ideas about topics and I, a lot of our blog posts are topics that I’ve come up with, but I’ve got an SEO team that pretty much handles that and it’s one of the reasons our SEO is so good because I’m not doing it. So is there a team of designers at sex worker sites or is it just you?

Speaker 2 (25m 33s): It is just me. Almost every project I do is typically just me in unless I announce there’s somebody else. And the only people that I’ve ever really worked with closely for a long period of time is Katie Churchill, who you’ve heard me on here with previously. And then now I’m working with Lydia Love and those are, those are my ride or dies. But for the most part I do everything on my lonesome because I have, first of all, I have a strange schedule. I stay up very late into the night and I can’t expect anybody else to do that for me.

But also I just feel I’m more productive when I have an idea in mind and I’m not delegating tasks to people and I’m just able to do it myself on my own timeline. But in the future, if you know the site scaled dramatically and I found someone with the same morals and belief system that I have and they wanted to design websites with sex worker sites, it’s not something that I would ignore. It’s something I’d definitely be interested in chatting more about, but as of right now it is just me.

Speaker 1 (26m 37s): Most developers generally are night owls I find.

Speaker 2 (26m 42s): Yeah, probably we drink too much caffeine.

Speaker 1 (26m 47s): Tell me about it. Yeah, well I’m glad you’re available evenings because being in Thailand it makes it really good for my schedule, so I appreciate it Ari. So how can performers that are interested in getting a website built by sex worker sites get in touch with you?

Speaker 2 (27m 5s): You can head over to sex worker sites.com and there’s two different sections for getting in touch with us. Depending on what you’re looking for, if you’re looking for graphic content, you’ll be able to find the page and contact form for that. And if you wanna order a website, you’ll also find a website ordering form where you fill out all of the important information and contact me about that as well. It all goes straight to my email and I usually don’t take long to get back to you.

Speaker 1 (27m 31s): And then what do you do? Do you do a consultation with them?

Speaker 2 (27m 34s): Typically I just do an email consultation where I go back and forth and iron out the details. If it’s something that they’re very particular about, I am available to hop on video or audio calls. I’ve never had anybody that’s been in like a rush to hop on a video or audio call. But yeah, usually we iron it out through email. I have a document that explains literally everything I need for you, so there’s no questions. It’s very straightforward.

Speaker 1 (28m 0s): Very good. So onto IGF Studios, since we know you think Sleep is for sissies, can you tell me more about the studio you’re supposed to laugh and how you got involved?

Speaker 2 (28m 13s): So IGF Studios is run by somebody who I’ve respected in the industry for many years. I was only in the industry for about a year when she first started and that’s Lydia Love. She is somebody who has made a fantastic name for herself, has been involved in a lot of different projects and is somebody that just I genuinely vibe with. I enjoy the energy that she puts out, I enjoy the things that she does, the things that she says. And she actually approached me about getting started with the studio and I couldn’t turn her down because she’s, she’s legit, she’s the best.

I think we have a lot in common and I just, I love working with her now that I have been.

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): So what’s the main benefit for models looking to join IGF Studios?

Speaker 2 (29m 1s): There’s so many benefits. The main one probably has to be just the community. We’re different from a lot of studios in that we don’t try to isolate our models. A lot of people have secrecy within studios and it’s something that we don’t agree with. We want our models to be able to communicate with each other. We want them to brainstorm together, motivate each other, hype each other up and actually have a community. And in the webcam community you can feel very isolated when you’re camping, you’re working from home, you, you’re maybe not getting out and seeing friends or you know, even seeing sunlight sometimes.

So having that place where you can just chat with a group of like-minded individuals that you know are experiencing the same things that you’re experiencing really makes a huge difference.

Speaker 1 (29m 51s): Yeah, I remember talking to the guys at, we Cam Girls, Tristan and Red Girl who I’m sure you know, and they said the reason they started their site was that they talked to someone who was a CAM model and she felt isolated and that’s why they got the thing started in the first place. And obviously it’s been a big success.

Speaker 2 (30m 12s): Yeah, I think that’s the backstory with a lot of information channels and studios and just anything geared towards bringing models together because it can be so isolating and it’s not talked about enough. I mean, we do have mental health resources within the adult industry. Shout out Pineapple support. I think they’re really awesome, but

Speaker 1 (30m 33s): Big time. It’s

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): Not something that is talked about when you first get started. It’s not something you anticipate, it’s something you learn about over time because you experience it.

Speaker 1 (30m 44s): So what’s your job title at IGF Studios and what do you actually do?

Speaker 2 (30m 49s): So I am the staff mentor. I am a studio manager and I am the onboarding manager. So I handle our new hires. I do onboarding, signup, process, video call, interviews. I handle tech support, site support, just trying to troubleshoot any issues that they’re experiencing while camming, as well as giving marketing advice, customer retention advice, social media advice and all, all sorts of different advice. You know me, I’m just chockful of it.

Speaker 1 (31m 21s): That’s all. Huh?

Speaker 2 (31m 23s): That’s all Just a, just a little bit of everything, you know.

Speaker 1 (31m 28s): How has working with IGF Studios benefited you?

Speaker 2 (31m 32s): It’s made me feel so complete because it’s streamlined the way that I connect with people looking for help. Not that I was struggling before necessarily, but it’s a lot harder to get into contact with people looking for specifically CAM assistance when you’re just running a blog. But being put in this place where they’re anticipating to receive information from me and they know I have the information so if they need it, they come to me has made it so much easier for me to feel like, first of all, I’m being helpful, which is very important to me.

I like to feel like I’ve helped at least one person every day, but

Speaker 1 (32m 9s): That’s nice

Speaker 2 (32m 10s): Also, just having that connection with active cam models has also been great for me. Partially because of the isolation thing, but also because I feel like they motivate me too. Seeing people who are, you know, only a few months into their career, seeing the energy they have, the drive that they have to succeed, it really kinda like activates something in my heart again and it’s like, wow, this industry is so awesome because it’s providing people with opportunities they wouldn’t have had otherwise.

Speaker 1 (32m 38s): That’s lovely. What is your message or advice to models considering signing up for a studio?

Speaker 2 (32m 46s): Always look into the studio you’re signing up for, if they provide you with documentation, like a contract, read it over. Learn about what sites have different rules about studios. Some studios will not allow you to leave them and then create a new account independently. So always do your research and make sure that you’re actually getting benefits that will benefit you long term if you decide to leave, if you decide to change your mind. If you know for some reason you wanna move to a different site, is this something your studio will allow you to do?

Always ask questions, never be scared to ask questions of anybody who’s taking a cut of the money that customers are paying to you.

Speaker 1 (33m 31s): Yeah, that’s true. And I think people are a little too easygoing about that, aren’t they?

Speaker 2 (33m 37s): Oh yeah. I think a lot of people, especially when they’re new to the industry, go in blindly. I mean, I’ve heard horror stories, you know, girls signing up for a studio and having to do a naked video call with the manager, geez. And that’s just not how it works. So do your research if you ever have a question, even if you’re not gonna sign up for I G F, if you’re looking into studios in general, you could always send me a message. I’m more than happy to tell you what is or is not normal in an onboarding process.

But yeah, just be wary, understand that there’s a certain level of professionalism. It’s not like casting couch that’s fantasy. You’re never gonna have to do that in real life to get hired by a studio.

Speaker 1 (34m 22s): Have you heard other horror stories?

Speaker 2 (34m 24s): I’ve heard a good bit of horror stories about studios

Speaker 1 (34m 28s): Feel free.

Speaker 2 (34m 29s): It’s mostly just, you know, blackmail, things like that. Sending nude photos, sending nude videos, getting on video calls, withholding money until you send them certain things that you know they should not be expecting you to send them, like nude videos, nude photos. And then it gets even scarier because if you’ve signed up with their studio, these are people that have access to your legal information so they’re, if they want to do things like blackmail you, they can.

And I think that’s what makes igs Studios really comfortable too, is it’s run by CAM models. It’s not some random person behind a PC that you don’t know. Like me and Lydia, we exist on the internet, we have a history on the internet. Right. You can, you can find the history of our history and research it to your heart’s content.

Speaker 1 (35m 22s): How important is it to work for a studio that has CAM models behind it?

Speaker 2 (35m 30s): I think that it is very important because we’re people who understand what you’re going through. It’s like when you call tech support for a company and you’re trying to get help and you can tell they’ve never even held this device in their life. Like it’s not actually helpful when they read from a script. We’re not reading from a script. Yeah, like Apple. Yeah, exactly. We don’t read from a script. We tell you from what we know, from what we’ve dealt with firsthand, we’re actually like real cam models that have been on these sites.

We know what works, we know what doesn’t. We know how things work and if things break, how to fix it and if things malfunction, how to fix that. Like we have done it ourselves. I think there’s a great value in relying on information coming from people that have done it themselves and had their hands on what you’re having your hands on.

Speaker 1 (36m 26s): Does IGF have plans to expand? And I would imagine bringing in more personnel would mean more CAM models.

Speaker 2 (36m 34s): So we are hiring actively. We have been doing tons of hiring recently, actually I’ve been super busy, but we do plan to expand in the future. Right now we’re just trying to get our model base a little bigger before we expand into other things and we want everybody to be comfortable and on the same page. I mean the studio hasn’t even been around for a year yet, but we have done crazy, absolutely unexpected things in just under a year of being up.

So in the future we definitely wanna expand. We’re on two sites currently, but we want to get to more. We’re just making sure we do everything at the right time so that our models feel like they’re getting the best support that they can.

Speaker 1 (37m 19s): What are the sites you’re on?

Speaker 2 (37m 21s): We’re on streaming and Camp Soda currently.

Speaker 1 (37m 24s): Okay. I figured streaming was one of them. They seem to have their hands in everything, Liz and one of these days Liz will actually accept my invitation to be on the podcast. She,

Speaker 2 (37m 34s): I’ve talked to Liz today. I love Liz.

Speaker 1 (37m 37s): Everybody loves Liz. I actually finally got a chance to meet her at Ex LA and I’m sure I’ll see her at Ex Miami, so if we haven’t done our interview by then, I’m gonna be very unhappy anyway. So how can performers or newbies that are interested in joining IGF studios get in contact with you or Lydia?

Speaker 2 (37m 58s): They can go to igf studios.com and there is an application form right there if you wanna apply, you can also contact us through the site. We have a frequently asked questions category. We have information about the studio, about all of the studio managers. So that is the hub to find all of the information you could ever want or need about the studio.

Speaker 1 (38m 21s): One more thing, let’s say somebody is interested in becoming a CAM model, they’re not doing it now. What would be some advice from you to them?

Speaker 2 (38m 32s): I have so much advice I could go on for an hour about this. It’s hard to pick just one thing. Wait I, I gotta think about it for a second. My advice for you would be think about your brand long term when you decide who you’re gonna be as a CAM model. It may seem good to you at the time, but pick something that you can grow with. Because if you’re going to grow this into a long term career, you’re going to want a name and an image that you’ll be proud of five, 10 years down the line.

So if you plan to make this your career, treat every decision you make early on with you know, good intentions, good thoughts, and try to be very smart about all of the decisions that you make.

Speaker 1 (39m 17s): What mistakes do you say see existing CAM models making?

Speaker 2 (39m 23s): Having the same usernames as other CAM models is a huge one because you never wanna be competing for your audience when they’re looking you up. So always do your name research and make sure that you’re unique in your name and that they’ll be able to find you first over other people. Similar names are a little different, but the same exact names, that’s a little questionable. I also find that a lot of people get scammed for like gift cards and wishlist items and don’t wait until the money or the gift is actually in their hand to provide services.

Chargebacks, they happen and they happen frequently, especially to new models. So never provide any services until you have the earnings or the thing that you’re supposed to be getting out of it in your hand.

Speaker 1 (40m 11s): That’s very good. So let me ask you a question. Why do you see, because now you’re working with the studio and you’ve got a lot of experience in this. Why do you seek cam models struggle? Obviously there’s some that make a lot of money. You’ve obviously done quite well. Lydia’s done quite well. Why do you think most CAM models struggle?

Speaker 2 (40m 34s): I think most cam models struggle because they understand that they have to be consistent, but they don’t understand what being consistent actually means.

Speaker 1 (40m 44s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (40m 44s): Consistency isn’t just putting in the same amount of hours every week. It’s putting in the same amount of hours every week on the same day at the same time and adjusting when you need to because if a time isn’t working for you on cam, you can’t just force it to work for you. Try new things. So be consistent. Find a schedule that works for you and actually stick to that schedule. It’s more than just getting the time in, it’s being in the right place at the right time too. And you can’t develop regular clients if you’re not there when they anticipate that you’ll be there.

So make a graphic, make a cute little schedule and if you’re on a site that allows you to mass message, send that out, it’ll hold you accountable and it’ll make a big difference over time in the amount of regular faces that you see.

Speaker 1 (41m 34s): Yeah, I guess it’s kind of like a retail store not being open regular hours. Like they’re supposed to open at 10 and they don’t show up till noon and so on.

Speaker 2 (41m 43s): Exactly. If you went to a store expecting to buy something and you had just bought it there yesterday at the same time and they weren’t open and they didn’t post anywhere that they wouldn’t be open, you’d probably not go the next day.

Speaker 1 (41m 56s): It’s kinda like the guy that does my haircuts here, but that’s another story. Harry, I’d like to thank you for being our guest once again on today on adult site broker talk and I know we’ll have a chance to do it again soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 8s): Of course. Thank you for having me and I hope everyone that’s listening has a fantastic day.

Speaker 1 (42m 14s): You too. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about eliminating unneeded expenses. Next you can trademark your website. Having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable when it comes time to sell it. Trademarking your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment when it comes time to sell. Show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future.

This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends. If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better. Be different in some distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people wanna visit, not just to buy things or view porn.

Be creative, not just one of many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site. Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech, think like the consumer. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with the traffic Captain Andy Wullmer. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Aerie Saunders.

Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Veteran Producer Terry Stephens. At Adult Site Broker. We’ve doubled our affiliate payouts on ASB Cash.

Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us, you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. We’ve also added an events section on our website at adultsitebroker.com.

Now you can get information on B2B events on our site, as well as special discounts reserved for our clients. Go to adult site broker.com for more details. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer an amazing opportunity. If you’re in the live cams model management or fan site space, or want to get into them, we have a private listing that may be just right for you. This company works with all major CAM sites and has access to hundreds of US-based models.

We’re offering very limited information at the seller’s request. In order to maintain privacy, we anticipate multiple offers for this very rare listing. For more information, contact us at Adult Site Broker. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Terry Stevens, a k a Naked Truth guy. Terry, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk. Hi,

Speaker 2 (2m 10s): Thanks for having me back again.

Speaker 1 (2m 12s): It’s a pleasure. Maverick Producer Terry Stevens started out selling porn on V H S when the business was highly illegal in the mid nineties, before a chance encounter with a customer gave him the opportunity to make his first amateur movie. It was a couple of years later when he gained recognition as an amateur producer on the popular viewer’s wives series From Your Choice in Holland, while still doing the round selling videos by mail order and door to door got rated, a two year court case ensued.

Meanwhile, Terry was gaining recognition with his new One Eye Jack Gonzo series of movies that earned him a seven movie distribution deal to produce new movies for extreme associates in the us. But the company had problems of its own and stopped. At five, Terry teamed up with a partner to Launch Wrist Action Entertainment, A D V D distribution company supplying sex shops across the uk. The problems with the newfound industry gone legal had problems that required a concentrated effort, or I should say a concerted effort to set standards.

And UK adult producers was born from a chance gathering of producers to form an association under the name of producers for a Pint. I like that. Ucap, as it came to be known later, was a collection of producers who engineered the much needed changes that were required in a largely unregulated business, which later found itself defending the rights to produce adult content for sale in the uk. And its numerous challenges from the R 18 online at V O D and age verification while gaining momentum with his award-winning series Real Couples, which was featured on Playboys, et cetera, and juggling with productions in daily politics with performers and his commitment to the association as well as staying ahead of all the changes that come with the business and a constant state of flux.

After years of being a secretary to the various administrations, over a 10 year period, Terry became the default chairman for the full five year term and oversaw the UCAP Awards from 2014 to 2018. Since the pandemic, Terry has been living in Bulgaria and continues to monetize the business, he created and promotes his website. So what’s the difference, Terry, between Naked Truth Guy and Terry Stevens?

Speaker 2 (4m 36s): Wow, very big difference. Naked Truth Guy came about when I became more aware of the politics in this industry. So I, I don’t like to use the word activist, but I, I think I did become more of an activist at one point in my career from 20

Speaker 1 (4m 57s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (4m 58s): 15, I think it was. It was a guy called Jerry Barnett who actually got me turned onto all this because one day he said to me, Gail was coming to the UK and she was doing a stop, was it a stop porn culture convention in London where they were trying to get, cause they, they already got porn banned in Iceland. So they were trying to, what? They came over to the UK to continue at their, their campaign over here.

And we just met with them as a sort of counter demo, if you like, because we felt that if we didn’t, if we didn’t defend the porn, then left Unopposed, they were gonna make changes that, that the government were gonna listen to. So yeah, it was, it was interesting. I I filmed that, that that particular day and I realized that while I was having an an opinion about it, I didn’t want it affecting my day-to-day business. So, naked Truth Guy came about when I started doing podcasts.

The reasons why I did those podcasts in the beginning was a simple way of reaching out to an audience rather than tell him. Because a lot of people would ask me, what happened at the meetings? What happened here? And I thought, you know what? I’d just do a podcast. And that way you can listen to it. Cause you know how it’s, you go into a meeting and, and everyone’s expecting information from you. I’ve got told the same story 20 or 30 times. I thought, Hey, you know what, just do a podcast, listen to the podcast, and then ask questions from that. And that’s how it developed.

Speaker 1 (6m 33s): You should have had recorded answers to play to them.

Speaker 2 (6m 37s): Yeah. Well, yeah. I I guess in the end though, I did though, I thought it was just a more of a practical way of getting the information across to a lot of people. Cause I I was answering to a lot of people after who, who missed the meetings on the day. Yeah. As a result of that though, as, as we went forward and I got more involved in the age verification and, and I, I, I was starting to see a lot of things that were going on and a lot of my opinions were formed from my observations of what was going on at these meetings.

And a lot of the times I’ll vent my own opinion. Cause I was chairman by default anyway. So I guess a lot of people were a little bit wary that, well, the chairman’s got these opinions, but we don’t agree with those opinions, you know, so they said to me, you need to have your own platform. So that’s really one of the reasons why Naked Truth Guy took hold. I mean, naked Truth Guy really was a natural extension to the Naked Truth Podcast. And the Naked Truth Podcast came from an idea that the truth doesn’t have to be dressed up.

Speaker 1 (7m 39s): Ah, there it is. So, you know, it’s interesting you talk about anti-porn protests. I don’t know, I, we, we talked about this the first time, I think. Yeah. Ex Biz did one show in London and there were, you might have been at that one. I’m not sure.

Speaker 2 (7m 57s): They did several every year in London. I was at most of them, but I

Speaker 1 (8m 1s): They do several in. Okay. Well

Speaker 2 (8m 3s): They they did. So I think they started now. Well,

Speaker 1 (8m 5s): The first time, yeah, it was the fir Yeah. The Europe show did start in London, I believe it was the first year in London where they had an anti porn protest across the street where there were a bunch of women and then

Speaker 2 (8m 19s): Protesting. I know when it was, it was at the Red Blue Hotel near to Tolan Court Road. Yes. And they were turning

Speaker 1 (8m 26s): Up Exactly.

Speaker 2 (8m 27s): Guest masks. Yeah. These protesters were turning up in guest masks and being a nuisance outside, weren’t they? Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I find that, that the whole group just toxic.

Speaker 1 (8m 39s): Well, look, they’re, they’re getting stronger and stronger, unfortunately. And of course they’ve got the religious right behind them and they’re getting really strong in the US and that’s, that’s something that, you know, the Free Speech Coalition and others are trying to fight against. But it’s, they’re kind of hard to fight against. You know, trying to get politicians to say that they agree with porn is a little bit of a problem, especially for them to come on record and say it.

Speaker 2 (9m 7s): This is Naked Truth. Guys, take on that. And from my own personal observation, I found out that none of those organizations exist if they weren’t well funded. The only reason why those guys and girls are anti-porn is cause they’re getting paid. I’ll pick out Lila Miel from Exodus Cry. She’s making millions from the knee-jerk reactions of parents who are frightened of porn. Right. And they feel that Lila Miel is gonna be the savior to bring down the whole porn industry. Shell never, ever succeed.

Yeah. There’s a reason why they’ll never ever ban porn, because there has to be a whipping post for these politicians to mount their agendas on. And porn is the platform is, I mean, I’ve heard that the porn industry is the bastard child of Hollywood. So in other words, we’re gonna, we’re gonna always exist. Porn will always prevail. A mainstream producer told me that mainstream producer friend told me this. He said, porn will always prevail. He said they tried. Yeah.

Tried. Somehow the porn industry will find a way of thriving.

Speaker 1 (10m 12s): Well, we’re, we’re strong. We’re strong, and we’re, we’re strong. Oh,

Speaker 2 (10m 15s): We’re resilient. We’re resilient. That’s the thing. You could take a,

Speaker 1 (10m 20s): Yeah, exactly. So what can we learn about the past in our industry and where can we find information about that?

Speaker 2 (10m 28s): That’s a very good question. The interesting thing about that question is you have to remember that history is constantly repeating itself. This industry is constantly evolving. When I say it’s in a state of flux, I mean that it’s just constantly just evolving one way or another. It’s, it’s moving forward. But for every two steps forward, you take, you always seem to take about three steps back. You know, somebody’s trying to hold us back. What we’re experiencing today with Exodus Cry is probably no different from the Meese Commission. And then before that you had, yeah, there were other censorship things like to do with other noted names back in the day.

What’s her name? Kenita Royal, who, you know, who’s a female producer, who’s an activist. So, you know, female producers are nothing new to the industry. They’re trying to make it look today that, you know, women are subjugated to men’s gays and fantasies. They are, they are. But at the same time, women are also empowered to, to make the kinda porn that they wanna make. Now there’s a, there’s a lot more women making porn. As a matter of fact, if you look at things like only fans, everyone’s become independent now. I mean, technology has now democratized the industry to the point where everyone who wants to make porn can make porn now.

So there’s no one being oppressed, there’s no female being oppressed. They’re all in it by choice. Whatever their motives are.

Speaker 1 (11m 47s): That’s right. Mostly the motives are to make money.

Speaker 2 (11m 52s): Absolutely. And you know, during the pandemic, as everybody noted, there was a, a huge groundswell of new people coming into the industry that would’ve never considered doing porn. But they, I wouldn’t say they were forced to do it. Oh, sure. No ever forced to do anything. But I think they considered that, well they can make a good living and, and get outta this, you know, they, they’re gonna be spending a lot of time at home. Yeah. Why not?

Speaker 1 (12m 14s): You’re right. And a lot of people, I think, needed only fans to eat during the pandemic.

Speaker 2 (12m 22s): Yes, totally.

Speaker 1 (12m 24s): What do you think the likes of only fans will do and is doing to the, the rest of the industry?

Speaker 2 (12m 32s): Right now? I don’t think, I mean, only is popular as we know as a platform. But at the moment there’s a lot of heavy criticism against it. Cause they haven’t paid any lip service to their, their sex worker contingent. Now I understand why they do this, to be honest, because if you understand, of course, how the payment processors work, they could never acknowledge the sex worker side because that area was considered toxic for banking practices.

And as a result of that as well, a lot of people may not know this, but only is also monitored and moderated or regulated, what should I say by which is the watchdog for regulating the internet in the uk actually regulating the media generation.

Speaker 1 (13m 26s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (13m 26s): All know that. City rules. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean there’s a, there’s a, a government quango, they may not class themselves as a government quango, but if you know a, what a quango is, it’s, it’s a job that’s been created to create a body of people who will comply by the law of what’s legal and what isn’t legal. And again, what is legal written on the statute is sometimes subject to interpretation. You know, things like squirting, they won’t allow squirting.

So what’s happened now? You’re gonna see a load of people, load of girls migrating to the other platform, another platform that’s offshore. Like something like Ley, which I believe is American. Right. The American or Canadian, I’m not sure. Somewhere that’s the world. But where censorship is a bit more relaxed. There’s that one.

Speaker 1 (14m 19s): I’m not,

Speaker 2 (14m 20s): Yeah, I I would say censorship a lot more relaxed in the US And sometimes if you speak to American, they don’t feel it’s relaxed. But in terms of what they can do with content so

Speaker 1 (14m 31s): Far

Speaker 2 (14m 32s): Yeah. For the sake of conversation, yeah. They’ll move to a platform where they, where the, the laws are a little bit more relaxed than in the uk.

Speaker 1 (14m 40s): Interesting. So how do you, when we’re talking about the past and the industry, how do you ask the right questions to get the proper answers?

Speaker 2 (14m 51s): This is, that’s an interesting one because you really need to know what you’re talking about first before you can ask the right kind questions. And more often than not people would. That’s right. Always, always ask the questions like how do you get into the business? Now that’s an interesting question in itself because I would say, well, these days to start an only account, but that’s, there’s more to it than that because there’s a whole load more to it than that. You know, then you’ve got tell them that, well if you’re gonna be working with somebody else, you know, you’ve get tested, then you’ve get tested to a certain profile.

You know, because then you tell them that you in the industry so that they know what profile test you for. Then you’re gonna need three months of tests right before you. I mean, this doesn’t apply to everybody. I mean, some people might just for 14 test, 14 test and they’re happy. That’s different industry’s. So easiest way to do it is to really set, set up your own self of an only account. But then you’ve gotta find other people to work with.

And then you’ve gotta know the, the etiquette of dealing with people to work with, to answer the right questions. You really need to learn a little bit about the industry first. And I, I do think there, there should be some kind of an induction process to the business when people come in. There should be like, I agree. Yeah, there should be

Speaker 1 (16m 12s): Don’t university.

Speaker 2 (16m 14s): Well do you know, the weird thing is in terms of university, I believe something like is already doing something that Italy mean he’s a program about is university. Have you seen it? Yeah. It’s brilliant. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s interesting because he’s got a load of guys staying, staying on campus. They all stay on campus and he’s got these about six to eight porn stars. Yeah. Who service their needs. Rocco’s, educating these chaps about how to, how to start a scene. He teaches them first that they to be confident.

Speaker 1 (16m 44s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (16m 44s): Roco. So yeah, there’s a whole protest. There’s a whole process to

Speaker 1 (16m 47s): It. Who else?

Speaker 2 (16m 48s): Yeah. Well Roco is legend. Any really, but, you know, but you know what, what what upsets me more about Roco doing that is that I had that idea 10 years before and I was ridiculed for it. It’s like poor university. Oh,

Speaker 1 (17m 2s): There you go.

Speaker 2 (17m 3s): Can’t stop it Terry. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17m 4s): You didn’t know. Yeah. You, you, you didn’t know what you were talking about. Right?

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. What do I know? You know, and everything that I, everything that I talk about has come from my experience and observation of this industry. And I always feel that for every problem we’ve got, there is a solution and there’s a practical solution. So I say to people, look, if you, you wanna ask me? Cause I’ve been told when I was chairman of ucap, there are certain people that said to me, oh, we, we didn’t learn anything from being with you. Yeah. And I thought, what you mean? I said, well, everything you told us was wrong.

And I thought, well maybe cuz you was asking the wrong questions. But then I would say on the contrary, I think you’ve learned a lot. You’ve learned not how to, to do it. Now. That’s the thing. I said what works for me may not necessarily work for you. That’s the thing. I came from a different era. Correct. Said came from a period where we were creating stuff, we were platform were setting against these various factions that were thrown as Yeah.

Over the years, you know, with the bfc, the R line, the avo, you know, the government thing. And I remember distinctly people said, oh that’s, it’s banned against the government said it’s not about against the government, it’s about opposing the government and slowing the protest down so we can have a discuss discussion about this. Correct.

Speaker 1 (18m 32s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (18m 32s): The one thing I’ve learned about

Speaker 1 (18m 33s): The government, the old saying, the old saying, you can’t, you can’t fight city hall, you know, but you can fight city hall.

Speaker 2 (18m 40s): Yes you can. Yeah. And what, and what you do is that you oppose their next bill or you oppose something that’s coming through and they’ll want to know who’s opposing it. And I found that the government, when we’ve, we’ve actually been to, to White Hall down to Central London, and I’ve been in Parliament as well, was invited to parliament at Tbx. Yeah. And you, we had a chance to have a chat with various people and we found that a lot of the times the government really do have bigger fish to fry than deal with porn.

And they do tell us that they have to be seen to be something. Hello. I think what you find is that the people that are driving it, the driving the government to do these things are the people like the nspcc, you know, the National Society for the Prevention of quality to children. Yeah. So they’re driven by their remit. If you like to protect children on the internet. Yeah. They don’t care how it’s done. They just want it done. Right. And that’s the thing because they don’t know nothing about the industry.

Speaker 1 (19m 40s): Well, and

Speaker 2 (19m 41s): They just,

Speaker 1 (19m 42s): They just assume we’re, we’re a bunch, we’re a bunch of pedophiles. Yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 47s): Bruce, I did try to reach out to them, but you know, they just weren’t interested. They just didn’t even respond back. So I thought, well, you know what, we, we had good suggestions to put forward and how to protect children online, but if you don’t wanna hear it, what can we do?

Speaker 1 (20m 1s): Well, and that would be the, that would be the response I would expect. So what are your thoughts on using social media platforms for promotion and what do you think people in our industry need to know about them?

Speaker 2 (20m 15s): Well, social media platforms, first things first. Okay. Technically we’re all breaking the law. You’re using them. The, we’re we’re advertising adult content and we’re putting naughty images on there. We’re breaking the terms of service. But, you know, interesting. We’re, we’re breaking it on master the point. They’re just looking the other way now. They just, I, they just couldn’t be bothered. That’s okay. Look, we told them not to put porn in it, but now we’re, we’re swamped porn. Ok. So we’re gonna have to deal with this another way. Now, what people need to realize, I think if, if you follow the rules to, to a degree that, that there’s, I think that they’re a little bit lenient when they say, okay, look, if you’re gonna do this, do it in your timeline, but don’t put it on your main display.

Yeah. Keep keep that friendly. Because that’s the first port of call that everybody makes when they’re go onto Twitter and they see all your, all, all everybody who signed up. Correct. They don’t wanna be looking at porn. So I, I agree with that. I think that’s great. I think you shouldn’t put porn in your main display. Yep. You can put it, you can, you can mention it in your bio. They do hardcore.

Speaker 1 (21m 20s): They do.

Speaker 2 (21m 21s): Yeah. But, but also what, what everyone needs to remember was every time you are thrown off that goddamn platform, you have to remember that you’re just a guest here on someone else’s platform. This is a private run organization, so you don’t really have any recourse to fight back people. I see people saying that they’re gonna take these people to court, you know, take legal action against them. Class actions against them. What? Yeah. It’s their business. You don’t, they don’t have to be told what to do. You’re just a guest here.

You know, I’m just a guest here. So if they decided that they’re, you know, we don’t like you, we don’t like what you do, we just you off. And that goes for Instagram, Twitter, the whole lot of ’em, they’re all private

Speaker 1 (22m 2s): Organizations,

Speaker 2 (22m 3s): Right?

Speaker 1 (22m 4s): Sure, yeah. Absolutely. And you know, Facebook threw me off for the last time and I didn’t violate any terms and conditions, but their AI thinks I did. So I’m out. And I just finally said, you know what, it’s just not worth it. I mean, there is B2B value and that’s what I deal in. Yeah. But to be honest with you, I just got tired of the, the dance and that’s okay. There are other fish to fry.

So it’s all good. It’s all good. I Twitter more, I got thrown off LinkedIn and I, I went back on there. Unfortunately I lost my 5,000 contacts or so and I’m slowly rebuilding it, but Oh well it is what it is, right? Yeah. Well it’s not a hell of a lot you can do about it.

Speaker 2 (22m 52s): Yeah. Bruce, so this is the thing about that I think that we should stop being slaves to social media. And again, these are things that we can learn from the past. What did we do before Twitter? What did we do before social media? Yeah. How did, I mean, back in the early days when I was, when I was a successful private distributor of illegal movies, I had a mailing list. And what I did, I traded those mailing lists with other people who had mailing lists. And before long Sure those mailing lists became bargain by by by being paid for.

So people would pay for mailing lists. Sure. I mean, you’d paid for, I mean, a hundred, a hundred squared for 5,000 names. Cause that’s worth money to you. So Yeah. Back in the old days before social media, I remember, yeah. That’s how people worked. So we can look to the past again. I know that’s, that’s another perfect example of looking to the past to, to deal with problems in the present.

Speaker 1 (23m 45s): That’s true. Yep. Email is still a thing. Yeah. Some people don’t believe that, but it works extremely well for me. Yeah. Do you think the adult business needs to take accountability for things that’s criticized for like supposed unrealistic depictions of sex and relationships?

Speaker 2 (24m 7s): Well, I’m gonna say yes and a no to that. The yes. Part of it would be, I would think if you are making something particularly risky, because it’s all fantasy. So, I mean, my argument to the no would be because it’s fantasy. We don’t have to hold ourselves accountable. You are, you are over the age of 18 when you watch this. So you should have a, you should have a good mindset to know what right and wrong is. Right. But the s side of that is

Speaker 1 (24m 31s): You should,

Speaker 2 (24m 32s): Yeah. Yeah. I would say so. I would say that, you know, to put a disclaimer, follow the mainstream rule. You know, when in doubt just put a disclaimer in it and just say, look, these are performers or whatever in a, in a fantasy situation, do not copy this at home. Right. These are performed by professionals.

Speaker 1 (24m 53s): Don’t not try this at home. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (24m 57s): That’s, that’s it. Yeah. So, I mean, don’t forget, we, we, in the adult industry, we do weird acrobatic positions. We’re over the top. It’s over the top theatrics. It’s like, one of the things I argue about defense of extreme porn is that when I hear that girl’s been abused and look at her crying and her makeup is running, that she’s been slapped up. What they don’t understand is I know some of those girls who get slapped up and they love it. And I simply, it’s cause they enjoy what they Interesting. Interesting. Yeah.

I I say, look, if anybody has got a problem with what they do, they could just immediately stop. Yeah. But these arguments Yeah, exactly. Hear these. But also, the other thing I’ll say is that a lot of the girls should do their research before agreeing to doing jobs. I don’t know if that personally, I think a lot of them do. But you know, I’m just saying for the cheap seats, because I do think a lot of people do know that if they’re gonna be working for a certain producer who’s known for pushing the envelope with their performances, that they would know that beforehand.

Yeah. You know, and if exactly. And if you want, if you, if you don’t want to do words hard like that and you just want to do straightforward vanilla, there’s plenty of producers out there who do straightforward vanilla. There’s, I mean, I don’t agree with a lot of things, but at the same time I would say that I think it’s unprofessional for when the industry has to call out another person for their practices. They should know if they’re gonna be doing extreme porn, they should know the rules and limitations of what they do.

Speaker 1 (26m 30s): That’s true. No, that’s very true. So what do you think about so-called porn addiction being a national emergency in both your home country and in mine? Do you feel a sense of responsibility for those who are supposed victims of it?

Speaker 2 (26m 47s): Well, for what, I don’t believe in porn addiction at all. I mean, I’ve, I’ve been jerk for 30 years. I ain’t got no problem. Seriously. Seriously. I don’t agree. I thought it was, I don’t agree with porn addiction. I, I mean I I’ve never seen anybody frothing at the mouth needing to masturbate over pornography ever. Yeah. I think you have to ask yourself this. I think porn, you could learn a lot about yourself watching porn.

If you really need porn Right. That much. Yeah. And it’s, and it’s affecting your daily life. Well, the porn’s doing all right. It’s just the, the problem is just the end user. So I would say to you, true, you need to find, be honest with yourself and say, if you have a problem, it’s not the porn, it’s you. Yeah. What, what, what is it that porn provides that you, you’re not getting? I mean, do you need a girlfriend? Right. Some people, there’s, there’s a whole new group of people coming up called porn or sexuals who actually dedicate their lives to masturbating.

That’s what they wanna do. And if that’s what they wanna do, then let them be. Yeah. I mean, I did do, I did do a podcast. Well you, well

Speaker 1 (27m 59s): You’ve also, you’ve also heard about, you’ve heard about incel, right?

Speaker 2 (28m 4s): Yes, I have. Yeah. They’re, these, these guys are angry at women because, you know, right. Yeah. They’re angry at women for a variety of women. Yeah. So they’re, they’re like the next level misogynist, aren’t they really? They just hate women a lot.

Speaker 1 (28m 17s): Mainly cause they’re not getting laid.

Speaker 2 (28m 19s): Have you seen the statements? They don’t deserve to get laid if they had a shower or a shave, you know, and had a bit of personality. Exactly. You know, it doesn’t take much sex. Women like sex as much as men. So, you know, and just don’t, when when I, when I hear a guy who hates women and, and I think, well dude, you know, fix up a little bit. You know, you don’t look too bad. You just look like you need a good wash. I mean, come on girls, girls are into nice smells and you know, and decent looking guys.

You don’t, you don’t have to have a six pack to be with a nice

Speaker 1 (28m 54s): Girl. True. And by the way, you know, you mentioned the, the fault is not the porn, it’s the person. I think the same thing goes for drugs. It’s not the crack’s fault, it’s your fault that you get addicted from it.

Speaker 2 (29m 9s): Exactly. Crack is doing what crack does. You know, it, it’s just being crack. You know, it’s the end user. That’s

Speaker 1 (29m 15s): Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2 (29m 16s): And it’s the end user that’s responsible. The other thing as well, lots of bringing the whole sex and violence thing. You know, does porn, is porn responsible for men being violent? No, it isn’t. Cause when, when they use that excuse away, the blame, they’re taking away the accountability from the rapist. Right. So they’re saying, oh, oh, oh, that that rapist, he was, he was a slave to the porn. This is why he did what he did. No, he’s a rapist. You know, it’s nothing to do with porn.

Speaker 1 (29m 41s): Actually, actually porn and prostitution probably prevent more rapes than they They cause by, by a wide margin.

Speaker 2 (29m 52s): Exactly. I mean this, this, I mean there’s a porn producer, term comedian, he actually uses this line in his movie, in his, in his standup routine. And he said that porn doesn’t cause people to rape. Because he said that after you’ve had a good wink, you, you don’t wanna do anything else. That’s true, isn’t it? Yeah. After you’ve you

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): The energy. I was just thinking that Yes. Yeah. Yes, exactly. You’re not gonna rape, you’re not gonna rape anyone after jerking off. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30m 25s): No offense. But it might be in any your mind before. But if you watch the porn movie, I can’t be bombed now. I’ve calmed down now I’m alright.

Speaker 1 (30m 34s): So there seems to be some abuse going on in the business, obviously. Yeah. With performers alluded to it a little bit in the last question and right after you, I’m gonna be speaking with Leanne Young, allegedly one of Ron Jeremy’s victims. What are your thoughts on how to deal with this?

Speaker 2 (30m 54s): Well, having dealt with it organically as a chairman, now this isn’t the popular opinion, but this is my opinion from observation. I would always say, if this is really serious, go and file an official report with the police. And I’ve heard normally hear that the police can’t do anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s fine. The police can’t do nothing. That’s great. But I said, you go and file that official report because right there and then once it’s official, I will have to act on that.

My decisions will be based on the fact that you filed a report until you do that. That she said stuff. Because what’s gonna happen is, you said this to me, I’ve got to hear the other guy’s side of, and you say No, it didn’t turn out like that at all. Now I have been involved with something right between two friends. One is a female, one was a male. And I, the girl told me that person was quite rough with her. And I, you know what that guy’s, a friend of mine, I’m gonna have a word with him. I had a word with him and he said, well that’s not what she said in the day.

I thought everything was fine. And I thought, okay. So when I told her that, he said that she had a go at me and blocked me on social media, I thought never again don’t get involved. I said, in future we’re gonna do this by the book, you’ll file an official report. Then I’ll decide that. Okay, banned particular, well difficult.

He, she said stuff now. So when people say, oh yeah, that that particular person has abused me, why are they at this event? Why are they being chosen for this? Why are they, why are they a member of this? I said, cause it’s all until it’s actual put into an official report, then it’s official.

Speaker 1 (32m 45s): Yeah. Yeah. You make a good point. So Terry, what would you suggest performers do to protect themselves from potential abuse?

Speaker 2 (32m 54s): First and foremost, I would suggest that they do their homework on the person that they’re going to work with by seeing their work and also by agreeing beforehand what their limitations are in terms of what they’re willing to do performance wise also. But also on the other hand though, I know they’re still swing the other way around for producers. And I’ve been educating producers for years that they should have one camera filmed wide off the whole proceedings.

Everything from the moment they turn up, you’re in this room to the, to the end when they leave. I mean I, I used for my behind the scenes, it was never used for this particular sort of thing, but it was just used specifically. Cause I, I was always fascinated by the things that we talked about on the day. And I was used to look at myself talking to people. And also, I’ve never been footage but you know, case you have to happened on the day. And there was some misunderstanding between both parties.

You could refer back to that take and say, look, we didn’t talk about, you could see on the tape that we didn’t talk about that. So I would say that yeah, have a third camera, camera set up to record sound and in wide, wide covering all the action with the doors and everything, people coming in and out so that you, I’ve got that for a reference just in case. Keep it on file. You just never know when you might need it. And, and, and like I said, you know, you can use it for behind, it’s

Speaker 1 (34m 25s): Like a, it’s like a security camera for sure. Pretty much.

Speaker 2 (34m 28s): Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34m 29s): So what’s your take on performers leaving the business and then requesting their content be taken down?

Speaker 2 (34m 37s): I’ve encountered that. It’s annoying because it, it, I don’t see the point in taking content down like 10 years later after it’s already been on the internet and low and thousands of people have already downloaded it. And I said to people, look, you know, I always asked them first, where did they first see it? And if nine times outta 10 it’s gonna be on some tube site somewhere. Some obscure tube site. Yeah, sure. Obviously bought it from my site. Yes. But I can’t be held accountable for what people do with the footage after they have bought it.

I dunno, everybody who buys these things, I don’t forget, I’m a shop window of selling content. I dunno who these people are that are buying it. Yeah. So they decide to exploit it in ways that they wanna, you know. So I would say to people, yeah, don’t forget not only that read the model release because unlike a lot of people, I, it’s about the terminology and the words I use. You know, I do own the content in perpetuity. Is that my discretion, whether I wanna take it down or not. You know, if it’s not my fault, if you decide not to read the agreement that you signed and they asked me can I have a copy of it?

Yeah. I’ve still got a copy of it after all these years and their, their photo id sure. And they’ve agreed to it. There’s nine times 10. They just sign it and just snatch the money and run. You know, what can I do?

Speaker 1 (35m 52s): Yeah, of course. Why do you think there’s limited interest in supporting organizations that defend the business from banking discrimination and terms of use violations?

Speaker 2 (36m 7s): I think that’s mainly down to a lot of people are just focused on the money at the moment. I think it’s the case of making hay while the sun shines. Most people won’t, are not interested enough in the business to know what the, what they’re doing was once illegal. So they dunno the rules of having to do this properly. And some people don’t even see it as a business. That’s another thing. Sure. A lot of people coming into the business right now do not see it as a business. It’s just a, a payday and an opportunity to get laid.

And I think that’s the real problem. You’ve got about 90% of the industry is that way at the moment. The 10% who, I dunno, maybe I shouldn’t have put a percentage in it. I dunno for a fact what, what the percentage is. But I’d say you get the picture though, that it’s a small minority of people who are dedicated to this business as a business. So they’re the ones that are gonna be investing interest in organizations that will protect their business.

Speaker 1 (37m 4s): Yep. If you don’t, if you don’t consider it a business, then you’re not gonna treat it that way.

Speaker 2 (37m 9s): Exactly. And I think a lot of people, they’re making a lot of money right now. And I think I was guilty of this once when I came into the business because I didn’t know much about, I knew that what I was getting into was illegal and I did read, that’s the thing. I did read up on a lot of it. Cause I knew if it was illegal, what, what would be my course of action? What, what would bury me quick? What would they go for me quick to, to get a secure quick conviction And I decided straight away pay my tax. Sure. Yeah. Because once I pay my tax, I know that I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got a bit of leverage I’ll for the government, see look, I’ll pay my taxes.

True form the day I was raided, it’s

Speaker 1 (37m 48s): Always about money.

Speaker 2 (37m 49s): Yeah. Truth to form. The day I got raided, I had loads of cash lying around the house. You know, cause you know how it’s ah, I’m king mate, everything I touched of gold, there’s money everywhere. So the police will scoop it all up. Lovely. Put it all on the table, cat it all out. We found. Yeah, we found this amount of money blow up. Like I’ve got the money back in the end though. That’s the thing. But they made it clear that they found all this money, they’re counting it all out and they got me to sign off on it and they print a plastic bag and that it was all done properly. Nice. So yeah.

Speaker 1 (38m 19s): That’s fantastic. We keep getting new banking regulations. What do you think we can expect next?

Speaker 2 (38m 26s): Right. There’s been a lot silence. There’s been silence for a long time now since they’ve brought the regulations in and the regulations meant that all the websites Yeah. That yeah. Yeah. It’s been quiet for a while now. This is what I expect. I dunno if this is an actual fact, but this is what I’m gonna expect next. Cause it’s been quiet. We, we used to know this as a grace period. So in other words I’ll say you’ve got 12 months to get your paperwork in order all your paperwork, all your model releases, your IDs and get them ready for every single seat you’ve got on your site.

And you think, okay, yeah, everyone’s thinking after all that you never heard nothing from the banks. So it’s like, oh this is not the, this is not the time to get relaxed about it. This is the time to wonder when they’re gonna start playing. Because what they’re gonna do next I can see Yep. Is that they’re gonna pick on sites and do a random audit and they’re going to expect to lose people and make an example of those people they lose and they’ll do it without impunity. They’ll give you, don’t get me wrong, they’ll, they’ll probably give you 14 days to get your house in order.

Oh you haven’t got your paperwork but you’ve got 14 days to get that in order. If you don’t get that in order, you’re gone. We’re gonna lose you as a MasterCard fees, I’m gonna lose you as a, as a customer. Yeah. There’s no return. No. No matter what you do because you can’t be trusted. You’re not a valued customer. High risk. Yeah. And they’ll just do that randomly and I think they’ll, but like I said, they won’t be ruthless about it. They’ll give you a period to sort yourself out. Oh you didn’t take us serious the first time. Okay we give you, get yourself sorted and if you don’t let us lose you. And when they lose you they’ll work, they’ll weigh up the statistics.

Cause they have to be seen to be doing something.

Speaker 1 (40m 7s): Yeah. Yeah. I’m sure it won’t be their largest customer.

Speaker 2 (40m 11s): Yeah. I think they will pick, pick on the boutique sites. I think they’ll pick on the smaller sites because they’re expecting that’s where the problem’s gonna be. Cause the bigger sites, cause the

Speaker 1 (40m 21s): Big boy, the big boys have more, more to lose.

Speaker 2 (40m 24s): Not only that, the big boys, I mean I know one of the biggest names we could name it right now, have been more vigilant in their paperwork since day one. When I say they’re vigilant in their paperwork, they’re vigilant on their own paperwork for their own producers. It’s a shame they just didn’t use it for the user generated crowd. And what I predicted in 2007, it’s actually come to come to fruition now. It’s just weird. I I did bring this up ons possibly and people did say yeah, do you know what Yeah you’re right.

I said Yeah, but you did say it was right at time was this article

Speaker 1 (41m 2s): You’re of shit. Yeah. You’re shit. So you’re certainly in favor of having clean and clear 2 2 57 and all of that ready just in case.

Speaker 2 (41m 17s): Absolutely. Because otherwise, you know, you, I mean if you don’t have these things, even back in, back before the the baral started, you could have been accused of revenge porn. It’s the same thing. You’re putting intimate content online without permission. It’s the same

Speaker 1 (41m 35s): Thing. Well not only revenge porn and I, I wanna apologize to everybody cuz we’ve got a little time lapse here and I, I’ve never had that happen with this platform before, but I’m certainly gonna let ’em know about it. But yeah, I mean not only that, people can be also accused of kitty porn.

Speaker 2 (41m 57s): Yes. Yeah. There’s, this is another thing if a girl looks particularly off that type, like, you know, she’s a a shy teen wife, you know, she decides that she wants to get you back. She could say, well I was under Adrian, I did that video so you better take it down.

Speaker 1 (42m 13s): Exactly. So what problems can producers expect from the business these days?

Speaker 2 (42m 19s): Oh these days it’s the only fans era. Now this is where the content creators run things. So yeah, the producers are gonna have all kinds of problems now. They’re gonna have people not even wanting to work back in the old days, you know, people wanting to work and they, they would be ringing you up looking for work nowadays they just can’t be bothered. I mean sometimes they can’t even be bothered to work for themselves. That’s how relaxed they’re, they don’t have, they don’t have to leave the house or why should they bother? Look

Speaker 1 (42m 45s): If you’re making that kind of money, what the hell? Right?

Speaker 2 (42m 49s): Yeah. That’s the kind of problem you’re gonna get. A lot of lack of professionalism and yeah, it’s just going to create a bit of a problem for the more bespoke producer who, you know, who might have to get a model costume fit for that special fetish shoot or find themselves wasting money on productions because the model just doesn’t even turn up on the day.

Speaker 1 (43m 9s): Gee, that’s never happened before.

Speaker 2 (43m 11s): Oh yeah, we’ve always had no shows. But you know, the great thing about in Hollywood when they get no shows, they just sue the from, I mean you just look at big celebrities like Kim Baer when she did that, when she didn’t turn up for the boxing Heller film, she got sued and guess what? She ended up broke bankrupt. But you can’t do, we can’t do that in the adult industry. Can we?

Speaker 1 (43m 31s): It’s a damn shame. It’s a, it’s a damn shame because there are some that certainly have done things to warrant that. But I think everyone is just so casual about it cuz it’s like they just figure a certain percentage aren’t gonna show up. So they, you know, the producers roll with it.

Speaker 2 (43m 51s): Well, yeah, I I think that’s, that’s what it is now. You’ve just gotta roll with it or just find a community of people that you really like to work with. I mean, I think the future is there already with the way things are going now. I mean, some performers now have got the money to turn it around and hire the producer now to work for them. You know, like shooting Yes. And editing Yes. And taking pictures. But at the same time, I, I can see the industry’s turning, turning around in terms of that.

And it’s nice to see that there are some performers out there who are professional enough to realize that, hey, do you know what I’m gonna make the step from being a performer, not just a content creator, but you got content creators should see themselves as producers now, so they should, they should really learn the arts of producing adult content and distribution instead of just relying on a platform likens because they have to look at this wayns. Sure. Just like anything else is is part of a fast moving world and something could change in five years.

I mean we, we’ve seen already the the con controversial blips with only fans where they were threatening to go mainstream and they wanna take hardcore porn off their site and then within 48 hours they’re like, oh, we made a mistake, reverse that because I suddenly realize that there’s something else waiting,

Speaker 1 (45m 12s): There’s

Speaker 2 (45m 12s): Another platform waiting for them.

Speaker 1 (45m 13s): Yeah. We were only, we were only kidding. So what’s in the future for Terry Stevens naked truth guy, one or the other, or both?

Speaker 2 (45m 26s): Naked Truth guys doing all right on social media, still getting involved with disputes and issues and whatnot. I like to, I like to keep my, my awe in there somewhere just to keep my, my teeth sharpened if you like. But at the moment I’m, there you go. Putting together all my information from the past 30 years and thankfully I’ve written diaries as well for shoots that I can fall back on to help put my memoirs together. I’ve got so much information from memoir. I thinking about making Trilogy a three book.

Speaker 1 (45m 60s): Wow. A

Speaker 2 (46m 0s): Three book. Three well, a three book, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (46m 5s): Cool. Yeah. That’s extremely cool.

Speaker 2 (46m 8s): So that, that’s what I’m working on at the moment. But I’ve also got several features that I shot for in the past 10 years that I need to put together now. One of them was a documentary, a personal documentary about the industry, which covered a lot of topics that you don’t really see in mainstream films and programs. And luckily Sure. These were people that really wanted to say what they really felt. Cause they did say to me, well, if you’re agreeing to do this, Terry, can I say what I want? What I really feel about the industry?

And I said, absolutely. I said, this is a personal film. Cool, cool. I said I, I’d like to examine the, the, the complex act, the, the complex relationship that we have with pornography as well.

Speaker 1 (46m 50s): That’s neat. Y Todd Spades from Yanks Cash has a memoir coming out too. That’s gonna be really cool. I don’t know if you know, if you know of Todd, but I I it’s something that everyone in the, in the business will enjoy.

Speaker 2 (47m 5s): Well do, you know, I think most people in the business have an interesting story to tell and I think it’s worth reading most of them because they’re all coming from different angles. I mean, I know there’s certain traits and similarities that we might have had. Like some people might have had a poor background. Yeah. We know the rags to richest stories and stuff, but what’s important is why do they into porn and their relationship with the business and the, because I think one, one of the biggest things I’ve, I’m drawn to about, and it took me a while to observe this cause I think it’s not about the money.

I was making money before into this business, but I think it, what’s drawn to this industry, I realized what it was. It was just human psychology, the human aspect of it really in Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47m 49s): That’s cool, man. That’s really cool. Well, hey Terry, I’m, I’m looking forward to the book. I’m expecting an autograph copy. Yeah. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today, again on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon, maybe when the book comes out.

Speaker 2 (48m 8s): Yeah, that’d be a good thing. Yeah. Thanks for having me on board today.

Speaker 1 (48m 11s): Hey man, it’s always fun. Thank you. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about new ways to monetize your site. Next, eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time. Check services you pay for, like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options. Take it from me.

I’ve done this and saved a bunch, plus I’ve gotten higher quality hosting in the process. Again, ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost effectively along with this. Make your profit and loss statements show more profit. Increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that. Make sure your p and l statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal expenses you’ve put in. This will cost you money when you sell.

It may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you if you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement. Remember, every dollar in profit increases the value of your website as much as three to four times. This is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars more on their sale just by adjusting the p and l statement to reflect actual business expenses as opposed to a bunch of bs.

We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Aerie Saunders. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Terry Stephens. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Zak Ozbourne of Exclusv Life At Adult Site Broker. We’ve doubled our affiliate payouts on ASB Cash.

Now, a new or first sellers or buyers to us, you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up, we’ve also added an event section to our website@adultsitebroker.com.

Now you can get information on B2B events on our website, as well as special discounts reserved for our clients. Go to adult site broker.com for more details. Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a network of reality, interracial, hardcore porn sites. The flagship site has reality, interracial, hardcore porn with amateur girls, as well as some porn stars. Scenes are shot in public places in beautiful Miami.

The second site has big ass white girls getting fucked by black men. The third site is in the B B C niche. The company has been in business since 2013. They shoot in a true reality style that’s resulted in some of the most viral adult videos in the last decade. They’re currently developing their fourth site, which will be a super site for the network. They’re literally a two person operation, so expenses are low. With the right owner and marketing, there’s a tremendous opportunity to grow even more after being an adult for 15 years, the owner is ready to move on.

They currently have over 400 scenes. They do over 400 total sales a month. All the traffic is either type in Tube or Twitter. 86% of the traffic comes from tier one countries only $619,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Zach Osborne. Zach, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 46s): Bruce, it’s just good to be back here, mate. It’s

Speaker 1 (2m 49s): A pleasure to have you. Now I’m gonna start out by telling everyone that Zach holds the record for the most listeners on one of our podcasts. Totally. And it’s taken a Yes, you do. And it’s been a while to get this busy guy back on, but it’s so nice to have you again, my friend.

Speaker 2 (3m 6s): When you bother enough people with links, they’ll eventually click ’em and listen to ’em.

Speaker 1 (3m 10s): Isn’t that the truth? Now, Zach is an award-winning web developer and photographer videographer based in Northern Australia with over a decade of experience in the adult industry. He’s the co-founder and operations manager of Exclusive Life, an award-winning Australian only fans alternative, in addition to building websites for clients and managing exclusive life. Zach is also developing his own production network called Dolls Down Under.

He’s been a guest on multiple industry podcasts, most importantly this one, of course. And he’s had his work featured in articles published in notable news outlets such as AV nbis and Why Not. In 2022, Zack was awarded the best adult web developer at the Australian Adult Industry Awards. So Zach, you live and work in Australia. How accepted is the adult industry there as opposed to the US and Europe where it’s largely looked down upon?

Well,

Speaker 2 (4m 12s): The adult industry and adult work, sex work, as we call it, is pretty accepted here in Australia, or at least in, in, in my circles. Sure. I, you know, it is still pretty stigmatized in some ways. You know, it’s, it’s not a real job in a lot of people’s eyes. Yeah. But the content creator or adult influencer, as they call, as they call these days, is becoming more acceptable within society.

Speaker 1 (4m 40s): Yeah, that’s good. That’s really good to hear. Although I think Australia tends to be a little more open than supposedly liberal countries like the United States.

Speaker 2 (4m 52s): Yeah, I tend to agree with you there, but this the banking wise, like you still can’t take your Yeah. Your payout figures from your subscription platform down to the bank and ask for a home loan. Like it’s still not going to be Yeah. Regulated or legitimized in those eyes.

Speaker 1 (5m 9s): Bankers are assholes. That’s universal bankers. So any challenges being on the other side of the world?

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): Time zones? Yeah, you know, Canada, US East Coast, I think it’s like opposite time zone to me on the east coast of Australia. So you wanna book in a, you know, a 9:00 AM call in the States. It’s actually a 9:00 PM call here. You know, everything takes an extra half a day to resolve. Yeah. Back and forth emails. Yeah. People are sleeping and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, no, I, I think, you know, that’s fine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (5m 43s): We’re doing,

Speaker 2 (5m 44s): We’re

Speaker 1 (5m 44s): Doing all right. Actually, I think 9:00 AM on the East coast is midnight there cuz we have a 12 hour difference here in Thailand. So for you it would be midnight.

Speaker 2 (5m 54s): Yeah, we’re an extra three hours on Thailand, so yeah. Oh, probably. It’s been a long time since I’ve had to schedule calls to the States. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (6m 3s): Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The time, the time zone thing is a problem for all of us out thus far. So what is the Australian Adult Industry Awards?

Speaker 2 (6m 15s): Australian Adult Industry Awards is equivalent to like, I believe like the AVN awards and, and all that sort of stuff that you guys, that you have in America. It’s, right, it’s our adult industry and adult entertainment industry awards. It’s geared to, to like, it’s aimed towards full service sex workers, massage parlors, dance strippers, strip shows, strip clubs, right. Erotic dance troops, sex shops, and all of the support group video producers, all that sort of stuff.

Yeah. It’s a, it’s a red carpet, black tie event. Sweet. I didn’t, I didn’t wear a black tie. I didn’t even wear a tie. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a red carpet, black tie event, you know, with in between entertainment and you get to hang out and talk to some of the, you know, the, the people up the big end of town, the, the big content creators, the headline Australian porn stars. Hmm. It’s, it’s a very, it’s very exciting night.

Speaker 1 (7m 10s): How active is the adult industry in Australia?

Speaker 2 (7m 15s): Describe active, you know, if you talk like at least every town has a strip club.

Speaker 1 (7m 20s): Okay. But I mean, I mean more in terms of porn studios, content creators and the like, how active is Australia in that way as opposed to the rest of the world?

Speaker 2 (7m 35s): Well, I don’t really have exact figures, but we don’t have a big amount of AAA porn studios. We have, we got girls out west and Light Southern. They are two sort of high end, high, high-end, high-end porn production studios here. Yes. We export quite a few porn stars to the states. You know, we got Isabelle Delto, Angela White actually is a, is a Melbourne girl, and Kiara Edwards, she’s just finished a big long tour over in America.

Hmm. So, you know, you guys and estates just love, love us Aussies

Speaker 1 (8m 11s): Love the accent. Always love that accent. I always used to melt when I was a boy hearing Olivia Newton John talk, what can I say? Actually got to meet her once. Funny story. She did a concert at the Oakland Coliseum Arena, and my friend and I went to the concert and, you know, we actually, and this was a long time ago before security was anywhere near what it is now, we figured out where the limos were leaving from and we followed him and we went past a restricted area at Oakland Airport and got out of the car and they rolled down the window and she said hi to us.

Speaker 2 (8m 59s): Unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (9m 0s): Yeah. It was actually extremely cool. Extremely cool. Yeah. Now, I mean, these days we would’ve gotten shot, you know, I mean, there’s no two way, but, but in those days it was actually pretty cool. So how did it feel to be named Australia’s best adult web developer?

Speaker 2 (9m 18s): Oh, honestly, it was a totally, it was a surreal experience and, and an honor to have my work, my hard work validated like that. Yeah. I didn’t think anybody really paid attention to, to just me like the quiet little, you know, programmer up north, you know, just, but apparently people, people see what I do and yeah, it was, it was, it was a shock. It was surreal and it’s just an all right downright honor to be able to get up that stage. And I’d got my trophy, which is actually like a big, like a big diamond.

Mm. That’s pretty cool. I’ll, I’ll send you a photo.

Speaker 1 (9m 53s): Yeah, definitely. You definitely should. And how gratifying was it to win for exclusive life? I mean, you’ve busted your butt on that site.

Speaker 2 (10m 4s): I’d worked on my web, my website previously Sexy Snaps for many years. And then we, we migrated from Sexy Snaps to Exclusive Life and went to that subscription based platform. You know, we, we from launching in February, 2020, you know, we’ve been going for about two, just on two years. You know, we’d banged on a lot of doors and a lot of people were starting to see, hey, these guys actually have a website that’s, that’s a rival to the big players out there now. And again, it was, it’s just amazing that we, I we had that sort of impact on the Australian adult industry.

Speaker 1 (10m 36s): Yeah, most definitely. It’s come a long way on a couple years for sure. So,

Speaker 2 (10m 42s): Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (10m 43s): How has life been since those awards?

Speaker 2 (10m 46s): Not much has changed really. I’ve gotten a lot busier. Yeah. As you could imagine, my dad actually recognized my job as something real. Now it’s only taken me, taken them 15 years to be like, oh, Zach, he makes porn science. Yeah. But now they’re like, my son is a award-winning porn website builder, you know,

Speaker 1 (11m 7s): I love it.

Speaker 2 (11m 8s): Finally, you know, they’re proud of me.

Speaker 1 (11m 11s): Aw, that’s nice.

Speaker 2 (11m 15s): But apart from that, just really busy. Yeah. Everybody, everybody wants a piece of me.

Speaker 1 (11m 21s): Yep, yep. I understand. It can get that way. So have you been working on any fun projects lately?

Speaker 2 (11m 30s): Oh, web development. It’s fun. I enjoy it. Like, it’s one of those things I get into a code tunnel and I’ll, I, before I know it, it’ll be 3:00 AM and I’m like, oh shit. You know, I’ve got a, I’ve got a phone call, I’ve a, I’ve got a 9:00 AM meeting standout ones is, I’m building a, like a tantric massage website and they’re very, they’re trying to take a very goddess and offerings vibe to the site. So it’s all different language that I’m used to, like words wording wise.

And I’ve just been doing, I’ve been getting a lot of independent escort websites as well, and they’re fun. They’re, you know, you get to meet all the different girls and Yeah, no, it’s pretty good. But somehow after winning this award, I’ve gotten the attention of a lot of, I dunno what you wanna call it, mainstream industry. So builders and just other different, other different pick companies want me to build websites for ’em. Funny enough, the first job that I got after announcing that I’d won the award was, and they saw like the news, like the press releases and stuff, it was an artisanal bread bakery.

Speaker 1 (12m 39s): Yeah. Remember you telling me about that? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12m 42s): So, you know, they’ve saw the news and they’re like, huh Zach, he makes really good porn sites. Let’s game to build out bread site. So my friends is kind of funny, you know, like, win’s best porn developer builds bread website, you know, like, and I was a bit like, I was hoping I’d catch like a big one. Someone would be like, yeah, let’s build this huge platform, or let’s do this together. But no, it’s just an artisanal bread manufacturer down in Sunshine Coast.

Speaker 1 (13m 10s): Interesting. Interesting.

Speaker 2 (13m 13s): I’ve just, you may have heard, I just finished rebuilding a website for a popular site broker.

Speaker 1 (13m 19s): I’ve heard that. Anyone? I know

Speaker 2 (13m 21s): You may not have heard of them. Yeah. Adult, adult site broker, I think is what they’re called.

Speaker 1 (13m 26s): Yeah, I vaguely, vaguely. I, I do kind of, yeah, that does kind of ring a bell.

Speaker 2 (13m 31s): And I also hear they’ve got a new podcast website coming out in the next, I’d like to say weeks, but it’s probably gonna be a month.

Speaker 1 (13m 38s): Ah, geez. Don’t talk. Okay. Yes. This, this podcast is going to have an exciting new website with all kinds of features and it is my friend Zach, who will be responsible for it, and it’s gonna be that

Speaker 2 (13m 53s): Much.

Speaker 1 (13m 54s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13m 54s): My responsibility. No regret, mate.

Speaker 1 (13m 56s): Oh, it’s looking really exciting. So your work is always appreciated and I will give my personal testimonial here about how good this guy is and how great he is to work with. So

Speaker 2 (14m 9s): Bruce, it made me blush.

Speaker 1 (14m 10s): Yeah. And now you can, now you can pay me the thousand dollars you promised me for saying that. Okay.

Speaker 2 (14m 16s): And I’ll just, and you can pay me an extra thousand.

Speaker 1 (14m 21s): So what are the challenges in your line of work as you get busier and more popular?

Speaker 2 (14m 28s): For a long time, ever since I’ve started doing adult websites, especially for independent escorts and independent content creators, I’ve sort of tried with my, I’ve tried my hardest not to use answers or outsource just due to the nature of the work. I don’t want to be giving, you know, premium content out to like anonymous freelancers. Like, I don’t want the content leaked because of me, you know, like these, these creators, they work hard to sort of police their content and I don’t want it to get out. It’s all me. I, yeah.

So I’m re I’m incredibly busy,

Speaker 1 (15m 1s): It’s all I hear.

Speaker 2 (15m 2s): Yeah. The other one, the other problem I have is I just can’t say no to work. Like someone says, Hey, z I want, do you wanna be to build this website? And if I quote them, they’ll say, yeah, they, and they’ll say yes. And I just do it. I, and I just, I just keep doing it. Someone, I think it was you who said when you were that busy and you’ve just running outta time, you should just start charging more. Yeah. And then I find it, I find it hard for myself to validate my, my time and my work Yeah.

As much like to that rate. Right. Because it’s also like, it is something I enjoy doing, so. Right,

Speaker 1 (15m 37s): Right. I dunno. Yeah. But

Speaker 2 (15m 39s): It’s a struggle.

Speaker 1 (15m 40s): Yeah. But in the end, it’s all about making money. I mean, it really comes down to it, even though you enjoy it, it is your business. I’ve also suggested to you that you do add some, you know, other people that you work with to take care of some of the more menial tasks that are not necessarily up to your pay grade.

Speaker 2 (16m 1s): Yeah, I agree. Like if I, I can find a way to split it out. Yeah. And you know, so like someone, they, they do the certain part, right. And then like I oversee, I watch it. Yeah. And then like all the sensitive information is the last step, and that’s all my bit and

Speaker 1 (16m 15s): Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16m 16s): It’s a bit of a bit of a process I have to go through to work it all out.

Speaker 1 (16m 19s): Oh yeah. You’ve gotta design the process first. And I mean, I am all about outsourcing. I don’t want to have employees. Okay. Hmm. Some of my, some of my vendors are hard enough to work with and not one of them. But, you know, it’s like you really have to have a good team behind you, whether it be employees or whether it be freelance people.

And I prefer freelance people because it’s just a better, more, to me it’s a more honest relationship. And I didn’t like being an employee, so I don’t want to have employees. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (17m 6s): I think, I think I also, I think they call it, I have a touch of the founders syndrome where Yeah. I’ve gotta have my hands in everything

Speaker 1 (17m 14s): That can be a problem. It

Speaker 2 (17m 16s): Is. And being able to let go like that and have, have someone else do your work. Right. Is is a challenge. Especially if it’s your, if it’s your name, right. Like Right. You know, I operate as Zach Osborne. I don’t, I don’t have a different business name. Like Yeah. I work under my own name. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it, I said it, it’s something, it’s, it’s a challenge that I’m gonna try and overcome this year sometime it’s 2020 three’s problem. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (17m 44s): I would agree wholeheartedly. And you and I have said it is something we will talk about because I think I can certainly add some ideas to that process. So, yeah. And I know you and I brainstorm and strategize all the time, so it’s a good thing. Yes. It sounds like a lot of your work is online. Do you get out from behind the monitor and keyboard Very often.

Speaker 2 (18m 8s): Not as often as I like to or as I should, just because like everything I do is so computer centric. Sure.

Speaker 1 (18m 16s): It’s,

Speaker 2 (18m 17s): I’m always here, but tell me

Speaker 1 (18m 19s): About it. Yeah. Yeah. You and me, bro. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18m 23s): So, but earlier this year, just after, after New Year’s, I traveled to the Gold Coast, I’ve been working with a sex worker here in Australia. Her name is Vivian Black, and she’s starting a, like an online adult industry resource called Perversity X. So it’s like, you know, perverted University X Yeah. And we put the call out to any, any content creators, adult industry professionals, sex workers and all that, if they were interested in coming and lending, you know, 20 minutes to an hour of their time.

Right. To help us record a free set of educational videos to help. Right. To help people. They wanted to get into the adult industry or at least help them succeed. Nice. Yeah. So we did our first collaboration event on the Gold Coast. Just yeah. Just after New Year’s. And everybody, every, like, we had an overwhelming response of people who came out nice to, to come and talk about it. And we had, as I mentioned earlier, we had, Kiara Edwards came and spoke about Australian porn production verse, the US porn production and how St.

STDs, the screening is all done. We had the Apollo show. He’s a very big prominent adult content creator here in Australia. Okay. Talk about, talk about how to capitalize off your social media and, you know, TikTok is one of the best converting social medias we’ve got at the moment. Yep. And we had another, another male content creator, primal instinct come out and talk about how

Speaker 1 (19m 56s): And some of these names of some of these creators.

Speaker 2 (19m 60s): Yeah. Yeah. I def have to check ’em out. And he, he spoke about, you know, his processes of being on set shooting content because he’s a male content creator. Yeah. Everyone just sort of lended like their, their experience Okay. And all their recommendations. We also had some full service sex workers come in and talk about how they got into the industry and the traps for young players and, you know, what do they wish somebody had have told them about when they first started? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20m 27s): Yeah. I’m sure there’s a lot.

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): Yeah, absolutely. But we are waiting for the finished product to be edited so we can see how well we went. So yeah, I went down, I was a camera operator and co interviewer for some of the questions and yeah, it was just really cool hanging out with all these acts, so to speak, of Australia.

Speaker 1 (20m 45s): That’s sweet. Well, you’re becoming a very, very prominent voice in the Australian adult industry. And this last round of awards certainly confirms that. Right.

Speaker 2 (21m 0s): Yeah. I’ll, I’ll admit, I consider myself as just like a small independent web developer up north that just like, lives in a cave almost. So the, the imposter syndrome was strong, you know, like, yeah. But yeah, it was great. I was shaking the hands of these guys and, and these girls and they were like, oh, Zach, you’re the web developer. And I was like, you, you know who I am.

Speaker 1 (21m 21s): You and I have to have a talk about how you go from believing what you believe to being what you already are and what you will be. Okay.

Speaker 2 (21m 33s): That sounds like the title of your first self-help tape.

Speaker 1 (21m 37s): Ooh. Yeah. We don’t have tapes anymore now, but anyway. Oh,

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): What, you guys have something else?

Speaker 1 (21m 45s): Tapes? Well, there used to be tapes, DVDs, there’s CDs, there’s, I don’t know about tapes. Anyway, eight Track.

Speaker 2 (21m 55s): It was adjusted how out Eight behind

Speaker 1 (21m 57s): Eight Track, eight Track tapes, eight track. Betamax.

Speaker 2 (22m 0s): Betamax was the premium one. If in my Belief, beam Max should’ve won.

Speaker 1 (22m 4s): I’ve seen it all, man. I’ve seen it all in 65 years. Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (22m 8s): It was a, it, it was a suggest at how behind Australia is in technology because here we are the 16th of the second, 16th of February, 2023. And last week my house got fiber.

Speaker 1 (22m 22s): I know you told me. And you know, here’s the thing. Okay. Yeah. I mean, well I will say technology-wise, Thailand is catching up fast. We’ve got, as I’ve bragged you many times, gig beat here at home and

Speaker 2 (22m 36s): 500 up, what’s that? 500 megabit up.

Speaker 1 (22m 38s): Yeah. But the only pro, the only thing is that’s when the international gateway’s cooperating because, you know, let’s face it, I’m always on websites in the US and Europe and if the international gateway is having problems, which by the way is still wholly controlled by the Thai government.

Speaker 2 (22m 59s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22m 59s): Yeah. So it’s shitty. Yes.

Speaker 2 (23m 2s): Do we have to, do we have to cen this out?

Speaker 1 (23m 5s): Oh, fuck no. Oh, no, no. We’re no one gonna cen we’re not gonna censor any of that, any of that shit out. I didn’t talk about the people. I can’t talk about, I only talked, I can say whatever the fuck I want about the government. That’s

Speaker 2 (23m 18s): Fair. Okay.

Speaker 1 (23m 19s): And after, after our conversation, before this interview today about my experiences after a little road mishap with the Royalty police, I could go into a whole fucking tirade right now, but I won’t because it’ll be too, too far off topic. But anyway,

Speaker 2 (23m 36s): It’s gotta be another, another podcast series. Just Bruce Rantz.

Speaker 1 (23m 40s): They’re fucking fools. Anyway, so tell us again about Exclusive Life. What are its features and how is it different from all the other creator sites out there? Because there are a bunch now.

Speaker 2 (23m 53s): Oh, they’re popping up. They’re front and center. Yeah. So Exclusive Life is an online content monetization platform or a subscription-based social media network on how you wanna look at it. We offer on demand no minimum payouts. So, you know, if you, you only earn $4, you can have your $4. I’ve worked very, very hard with different banking providers and stuff like that to get these, get my creators paid fairly and cheaply and on time as possible because Excellent.

You shouldn’t have, you shouldn’t have to reach some predetermined, arbitrary amount in your balance before you can ask to be paid. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (24m 36s): No, it’s true.

Speaker 2 (24m 37s): We try and put our creators first before even, like, before we get paid. Of course, in a way. Because they, if we don’t have creators, we don’t have a platform. So we’ve Absolutely

Speaker 1 (24m 48s): Right. Absolutely. Right.

Speaker 2 (24m 50s): So, and we, we work on features, features that benefit them and we listen to the input, I guess cuz we’re not a monstrosity global company yet. Right. So, you know, we, we are listening to the input from our creators and what they want, what they wanna see. And we are working with them to create new features.

Speaker 1 (25m 9s): What kind of input has brought about which, which features on exclusive life.

Speaker 2 (25m 16s): Oh, that’s so like, it’s, what’s it called? Ui, ux, user experience, user interface. Just, you know, people will say, Hey, this, when I’m in the menu and I want to go here, I expect to end up at this page, but I’m not sort of thing. So we’re, we are like, oh, you know what? That we actually haven’t considered Yeah. That use case. So we implement that. Right. Just notifications, like, you know, we’ve recently pwa or I can’t remember what PWA stands for on personal web app, but I don’t think that’s what it’s, I just know it as pwa Okay.

On both Android and iOS and Okay. We’ve got push notifications on Android, so it, it is now it just, it looks and feels like a social media app. Yeah. That all came from people saying like, I wish there was just, I didn’t have to use the browser. Yeah. You know, and I wish I had a notification when someone DMed me Yeah. When someone unlocked a post so I could go and talk to them straight away. So we’ve implemented that, right? Yeah. Just quality of life improvements Yeah.

And all that sort of stuff. It’s been, it’s really good. We’ve got a pretty good community sort of vibe going where people can just talk to me and, you know, tell me like, I’m not too big. I’m here all the time and Sure. People answer my, my creative’s questions.

Speaker 1 (26m 33s): That’s really cool. So if I’m a creator, God knows I’m not and I’m,

Speaker 2 (26m 41s): There’s a niche for you.

Speaker 1 (26m 43s): Oh God, please. And if I think you should see me right now with no shirt on, man, I don’t think you’d say that. And let’s say there’s, I’m looking at different platforms. Yeah. And I wanna know, obviously I, I wanna be on more than one. I think where should I really concentrate and assuming that it’s exclusive life, why would I concentrate on exclusive life?

Speaker 2 (27m 13s): That’s a really good question. I know.

Speaker 1 (27m 15s): Cause I have, I know cuz I asked it.

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): Yes. Yes. You gotta look at things. Is the platform going to promote you? Yeah. Are they gonna promo, are you going to be in front of potential buyers to potential subscribers? How are they gonna promote you? Right. Right. Are they gonna support you through all of your problems? You know, your content gets leaked. Right. Do you, do they have a process for dealing with that? Yeah. And if you’re gonna get paid, how, how long is it gonna take you to get paid? Right. I think they’re the, they’re the three main figures that you gotta look at.

Right. Others, you know, as I said, user interface, you know, so like, so go back to the top. What was my first one? Are they gonna promote you? Yeah, we run, we have like a discover page and we’ve got our like a ranking system. And then you can like, you know, you can sort by most popular models, you can buy all creators, your most new creators. You can search for people, you can search for hashtags. You know, if you were into a certain type of niche, you know, you wanted big boobed creators, you can type in big boobs into the, into the search box.

And as long as that creator has filled out their profile, they will find you. So like we’ve got multiple niches sort of to like, to spread out to get you more exposure. Are we gonna support you if your content gets leaked? Absolutely. We offer a free D DM c a takedown service. Nice. Which not too many platforms do. So if you can show me your content’s been leaked and it’s online, on this website and you, we can verify that it is from exclusive life and it did come from exclusive life, we will get our lawyers and solicitors and we’ll get a D M C A take down request formed up and sent off and we’ll find out how they got it.

Another feature that we’ve got is, what we’re working on is digital fingerprinting of content. Cool. So the users, the users can’t see it, but you know, if, if it’s downloaded or saved from our website, however that, however they may get it out, we, and we can get ahold of the original file, we will actually know which, which user leaked it. Cool. I don’t you, I could tell you, they’ll tell you the creator that information I guess and we can go from there. Yeah. Whether you, we banned them, but internet can probably sign up again.

Sure. But at least, you know, at least we have the ability to trace where it came from. Sure. And third one, as I mentioned, are we, are you gonna get paid? Absolutely. We are currently working on minimizing. So with most content platforms, if you make a sale, you know, you’ve gotta at least wait eight days before that those dollars are released into your current balance. And that’s just risk mitigation on the platform’s behalf. Yeah. You know, people sign up and then cancel and then ask for a refund straight away.

You know, we, it’s easier to sort of just deal with that internally up af within the eight days. Right. But if you have a trusted, I don’t know what the right word is, non-problematic creator who’s had like a clean record, no refunds and all that sort of stuff. We create sort of like a score and that that cool. Those waiting days get less Yeah. Down to the point where it is, it will be possible for you to make a sale and then withdraw that amount to your, to your bit safeguard that we spoke about and instantly have that money on a card in your hands.

Wow. And you got paid, you know, two minutes ago.

Speaker 1 (30m 43s): Geez. That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (30m 44s): Yeah, as I said, you know, we are trying to put the money back into like the creator’s hands, get it to ’em as fast as we can.

Speaker 1 (30m 51s): Did you see a bump for exclusive life after winning the award?

Speaker 2 (30m 55s): Definitely. We had a lot of people, especially from the night cuz I was around Right. Mingling with everybody, giving them my business card and telling them all about exclusive life and how ma how, you know, especially for those who didn’t know what it was. Right. So that was good. Yeah. We saw a, a big bump and it was good. It was definitely, everyone’s very impressed. Oh my God, it’s so fast. Yeah. It’s like, well yeah, we spend a lot of time trying to make it as fast as we can. Sure.

Speaker 1 (31m 23s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (31m 25s): You know, nobody, nothing worse than spend trying to upload a video. It’s taking 10 minutes and your phone’s timing out and Yeah. All that other, as you know, you’ve mentioned internet problems, international gateways. Yep. So no nodes trying to have nodes around the world to just minimize that, minimize that waiting time.

Speaker 1 (31m 44s): Yeah. Yeah. So overall things are well with exclusive light. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31m 49s): We’re still working on new features every day trying to, you know, implement new and exciting ideas. More and more people are coming, signing up as creators and bringing their followers and their, their potential members and yeah, everyone’s getting exposure and it’s great.

Speaker 1 (32m 4s): What specifically are you working on to add to the site as far as new features coming up?

Speaker 2 (32m 10s): Well, as I mentioned, quicker payouts for creators. That’s, that was one we are working on that the algorithm to get the wait times down lower. But something really exciting that I’ve been working on only this sort of the start of this year and it’s sort of the hot topic at the moment is like working with ai, artificial intelligence. Yes.

Speaker 1 (32m 30s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (32m 31s): I’m creating, I’ve been working on AI models to create like post captions. So as, as I spoke to some of my creators and they, I said like, what’s something you don’t like doing when creating content? You know, and it’s the, the coming up with words to go with my content when I post it. Like I need to write some sales copy so people will want to unlock my post or Yeah. Wanna subscribe to my profile. People like me, I’m not a salesman. That makes, I

Speaker 1 (33m 0s): Believe that makes one of, that makes one of us.

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): Yeah. Right. I believe that my product should speak for itself, but unfortunately that’s not the world we live in. That’s

Speaker 1 (33m 7s): Not the world we live in. My friend. You’re always selling.

Speaker 2 (33m 11s): It’s not the industry we’re in either. That’s right. So yeah, I’ve been implementing AI post caption generation, so you know, the creator could say, you know, it’s neat. Oh I don’t, I don’t know what we can talk about on this podcast, but I, you know, trying out my new purple dildo just for you.

Speaker 1 (33m 29s): You can say anything you want on this podcast by the way,

Speaker 2 (33m 33s): Daddy. Yeah. Trying out my new purple dildo for the first time. Come watch. And you put that into the AI and you know, the AI models are all about the adult content. They understand and yeah. It will generate like a much bigger media post with relevant hashtags. Yeah. Right. For you to just put into your post caption and just submit that, send that off. Right. And I’ve shown like that there’s been like a very, was it beta release on that?

I’ve shown some of the creators and they think it’s amazing. That’s a game changer. Sure. Not sure the next step. And they’ve asked me, a lot of people have asked me about AI prompted dms and you know, talking to your subscribers one-on-one using an ai. Yeah. And I’m, I don’t know the ethics behind it yet. I haven’t fully sat down and thought about it, but at least if it’s AI driven, so, well

Speaker 1 (34m 29s): Let me ask you a question though about that. Yeah. Okay. Is it any less ethical for AI to do it than some chat agent in the Philippines?

Speaker 2 (34m 40s): I think the answer is no. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34m 43s): That’s the same.

Speaker 2 (34m 44s): Yeah. Think

Speaker 1 (34m 45s): It’s not them. Okay. So if chat d PT can do it then or some other variation of ai of

Speaker 2 (34m 55s): The AI model.

Speaker 1 (34m 57s): Yeah. Yeah. Then what’s the problem when every adult dating site known to man is using moderators? Hmm.

Speaker 2 (35m 7s): Yeah. Well our AI models that I’ve been working on are what’s they’re built from that creator and that creator’s personality too. So good. Everyone will have like their own AI profile. So,

Speaker 1 (35m 20s): So it’s actually better than someone in the Philipp Philippines. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 25s): And it, it learns from that and rather than having full conversations with the members, it’s, like I said, it’s AI driven so the creator will have various responses they can choose. Yeah, sure. And they can also override it. They can, they can submit their own response and all that sort of stuff, but Sure. Yeah. It’s just a time saving I, because these, these creators they’re talking to, you know, tens or hundreds of guys. Right. Or subscri, so subscribers. Right. You know, I, you know, some of the best owners we have offer the, the girlfriend experience, like the Absolutely.

The digital, the digital girlfriend. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35m 60s): Living in Thailand. I know a little bit about the girlfriend experience.

Speaker 2 (36m 6s): Yeah. So that’s, well you’re just sideswiped me there mate. I

Speaker 1 (36m 11s): My best.

Speaker 2 (36m 12s): Yeah. So that’s something we’re working on. It’s pretty exciting. I’ve sort of gone down the rabbit hole a little bit on AI this year so far and it’s very, it excites me. It’s important. I have no idea where we are gonna end up, like as a society with ai. I have no idea, but

Speaker 1 (36m 27s): I don’t even want to fucking think about it man. I don’t want, I don’t want to think about where we’re going with AI and robots, you know, I mean, they’re probably gonna declare war on the universe and take us all hostage and kill us. So what’s in the future for Zach Osborne?

Speaker 2 (36m 46s): Man, I’m flat out thinking about what’s happening tomorrow, let alone the future. I guess Build more sites, learn more things, maybe get an employee. Yeah. But as you mentioned in my little bio up the front of the podcast, I am looking to create a syndicate of video, like content video and photo producers. I dunno if you’ve seen Narcos, Mexico.

That’s the best way in my analogy. Where old mate

Speaker 1 (37m 20s): Seen what, sorry,

Speaker 2 (37m 22s): Narcos Mexico? No, it’s on Netflix. Hmm. Anyway, so basically it’s like you’ve got all these independent, you know, cartels and he’s joined them all together and then they become like the world’s biggest cartel anyway. So what I wanna do is you want

Speaker 1 (37m 35s): Two, you’re gonna get into drug dealing?

Speaker 2 (37m 37s): No, no. There’ll be no drug dealing and no killing shooting content. Yes. Ah,

Speaker 1 (37m 45s): Very good.

Speaker 2 (37m 46s): There’s too many people, too many independent content creators out there. Like con no content creators, content producers in Australia here, we’ve had some people, I’m not, I can’t really name names here, but he’s, he got himself into some hot water because just the way he was finding female actors to

Speaker 1 (38m 7s): Participate

Speaker 2 (38m 7s): In his videos were unsavory. And you know, it’s come out now after like a couple years that they have recently they were under the influence of drugs or

Speaker 1 (38m 19s): Oh. Or

Speaker 2 (38m 20s): Alcohol at the time. Have

Speaker 1 (38m 21s): You read up at all on the girls’ porn case?

Speaker 2 (38m 26s): No.

Speaker 1 (38m 27s): Google it. Okay. Some of those guys, if not all of them are in prison. Yeah. You need to check that out. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38m 35s): You know, it’s come out and then it’s just, and he’s actually had, he was an award-winning male content creator and he actually had publicly in his award, like stricken from him, like the adult good industry awards. People have said like we actually, we’ve found out what he’s done and we, we are discrediting him. He’s not I hope winner in our books.

Speaker 1 (38m 55s): I hope they tick Ron Jeremy out of the AVN Hall of fame.

Speaker 2 (38m 59s): Yeah, that’d be pretty big wouldn’t it?

Speaker 1 (39m 1s): It would be appropriate. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39m 4s): What I wanna create is like this network of content producers that’s built on respect and accountability. Yeah. And we’ll be, we’ll position ourselves all in various cities across Australia. So traveling content creators, traveling sex workers can go to one of these verified producers and know they’re going to get, they’re gonna be in a safe, respectful environment. Yeah. They’re gonna get a level of product that they have seen before and if anything unto towards happens, untoward happens, they can voice it amongst like the rest of the people and everyone can be like, well hang on now.

Like that we, we don’t stand for that and Right. You know, it’s, people take accountability for all their actions. Yes. And I like because safety this, yeah, it’s 2023 and you know, sex work is real work and they, people should be operating safely. Yes. We’ve got workplace health and safety, we’ve got, you know, ergonomic chairs, you know, we’ve got all these things. Why can’t these girls do their work? I use girls because most of them are girls like women. But why can’t these creators do their work safely with respect?

Yes. Yeah. So that’s something that I’m excited to work on. Absolutely. You know, and with Vivian Black and the other creators that I mentioned earlier, you know, everyone wants to get behind that and good. You know, I’m up in cans and so they’re like, oh yeah, let us know. We’ll come up. So yeah, it’s sort of, it’s, everyone likes the sound of it. So that’s sort of what I’m working on. That’s

Speaker 1 (40m 38s): Very cool. Very cool. So you won two awards at really what’s the equivalent of the Oscars of the Australian adult industry last year? Are you nominated this year and will you be attending?

Speaker 2 (40m 56s): So I haven’t received official confirmation that I’m actually nominated yet cuz it’s still only the 16th of February. Nominations close on the 28th of February I think. Hmm. But a lot of my friends and people I’ve worked with have all told me, Hey Zach, I’ve nominated you this year and exclusive life. Cool. So I, I anticipate I’ll get a nomination this year. Nice. But as for attending, absolutely. Nominated or not, I’m gonna be there. It’s a great night.

It’s a great time. Sounds cool.

Speaker 1 (41m 27s): Sounds cool.

Speaker 2 (41m 27s): Yeah, it’s a great show. I don’t know what I’m gonna wear this year. I know that’s, it’s a weird question from a man, but prob

Speaker 1 (41m 34s): Probably she close I would guess.

Speaker 2 (41m 37s): Oh yeah, well LA last year we had, we had Picasso, his name is like P R I C A S, Oso Picasso. And he actually does portraits with his Willie.

Speaker 1 (41m 47s): Yeah, I’ve heard about people who do that before. He’s

Speaker 2 (41m 50s): 68 I think.

Speaker 1 (41m 53s): Mm.

Speaker 2 (41m 54s): Anyway, I had a couple of drinks with him. He’s a really nice guy. How bet

Speaker 1 (41m 57s): His dick doesn’t like him very much.

Speaker 2 (41m 59s): It’s pretty long. I think it’s years of being stretched. Definitely going. It’s in Melbourne this year, so yeah. Gonna go down there, have a bit of a party. I think we all getting together and doing some content production in the hotels afterwards. My sweet with everybody, like all of the headliners all in the one town, you know, it’s, yeah,

Speaker 1 (42m 20s): It’s

Speaker 2 (42m 20s): Gonna get wild.

Speaker 1 (42m 21s): You might as well take advantage of it. Get some work done. That’s,

Speaker 2 (42m 25s): Yeah, well that’s right. It’s my accountant. He doesn’t like it, but

Speaker 1 (42m 29s): Hey man, you can write it off. That’s the beauty, right?

Speaker 2 (42m 32s): That’s it.

Speaker 1 (42m 33s): Then your accountant should love it.

Speaker 2 (42m 38s): He loves it, but he hates it.

Speaker 1 (42m 39s): Yeah, I understand. Well, hey Zack, I’d like to thank you for being back with us again on Adult Site Broker talk and I know we’ll have a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 50s): Oh, absolutely Bruce. It’s shame we left it so long, but also a pleasure to be back again.

Speaker 1 (42m 56s): It’s a pleasure to have you and it won’t be that long this time. I’ll be more of a pain in the ass.

Speaker 2 (43m 2s): More than normal.

Speaker 1 (43m 3s): You’re right. My broker tip today is part four of what’s due to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about keeping your site up to date and making sure everything works. Next, find new ways to monetize your website, such as sell advertising. If you’ve got a free site like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site if you have a tube. Another way to make more money is to sell premium memberships. Offer free users one level of content.

And for premium users you can do things like give them higher quality or longer videos or both. You can also make the site add free for premium members. Start an affiliate program. If you have a pay site, this is a great way to increase your quality of traffic and get more joins with all sites. You can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell to your users. Pay sites can also sell pay-per-view, or people have the option of paying by the scene for content they can’t get on the site.

This is another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee. Sell them other products like toys and novelties, market your business, do things to improve your search engine results. There are some great s e o consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our website, list all of the benefits of your site in your marketing and how they affect the user. And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firm such as Adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own.

We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Terry Stephens. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Zak Ozbourne. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Monte Cahn of Right of the Dot. At Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts on ASB Cash.

Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us, you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction, ASB Cash, as the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. We’ve also added an event section to our website@adultsitebroker.com.

Now you can get information on B2B events on our website, as well as special discounts reserved for our clients. Go to adult site broker.com for more details. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale an innovative marketing agency that specializes in managing the top 0.01% only fans profiles in the world. It’s just under a year old, but it’s growing very quickly.

They fully manage the workflow from promotion to monetization. They’ve developed an internal C R M that empowers the sales management, marketing automation, and analytics on the platform. This enables them to consistently drive in target trafficked profiles and efficiently monetize them. The company is already doing over 2 million euros in annual revenue from just over 20 only fans accounts. They have a database of over a million contacts and 600,000 users.

This is an outstanding opportunity for someone who wants to enter the world of only fans management and immediately become one of the top agencies in the world, or established agencies can acquire the company and expand their business. Only 2.59 million euros. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Mari Cahn of Right of the Dot. Monte, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 42s): Thanks Bruce. I’m glad to be here. I think it’s been a few years since we spoke last and did a podcast. I, I think I was in San Diego visiting back then.

Speaker 1 (2m 51s): It’s been a good while. Yeah, you’re always somewhere besides home. Do you have a home anymore?

Speaker 2 (2m 57s): I sure do. I live in Lauderdale by the Sea Florida, which is outside Fort Lauderdale, but I’m currently in Vail, Colorado. Yeah. On a family ski trip.

Speaker 1 (3m 5s): That’s, that’s so awesome. Oh, when I, when I, when I die and come back, I want to be you. Okay. Oh, so Monty is a pioneer and innovator in the domain space. He’s brokered an auctioned. Are you ready? A staggering 570 million in premium domain names. You heard that right. He’s also a board advisor, real estate investor and developer. Monty’s, the founder and president of Wright of the dot, a licensed business and premium domain auction and brokerage firm providing internet consulting and advisement, specializing in new and existing TLD strategy resolution services, premium domain market positioning, sales and services.

I’m outta breath. He is the managing member of.hiphop, L L c, the new I A N accredited Domain registry for hiphop domain names. He was the founder and c e O of moniker.com. You might remember those guys a leading I, a accredited registrar and he was the president of snap names.com. He is also an active investor in many developments in Costa Rica and Las Vegas, where would talk on offline about one in Las Vegas.

We need to talk about it. Sounds pretty cool. He also has numerous other business interests. Monty has been pioneering domain and aftermarket services since 1994. During this time, he’s helped many new and existing TLDs have successful launches through registrar promotions, sales and auctions of premium domains through marketing, brokerage and sales. Monty has more than 30 years of experience in the healthcare high tech and internet fields. He was one of the early pioneers of the industry and started investing in domain names in 1994 and started the first online domain brokerage business.

His resume includes brokering the industry’s first domain sale for over 1 million with the sale of Wall street.com and the industry’s first 2 million domain sale with a sale of autos.com. Later. He sold the highest dollar domain in history with a sale of porn.com for 9.5 million and slots.com for 5.5 million. He’s also the visionary behind live and online domain auctions. He was also the creator of Domain appraisals, domain escrow and who is privacy services.

Monty was voted into the 2010 domain Hall of fame by industry peers. He’s spoken and presented at more than 160 conferences. Monty graduated from the University of Kentucky with degrees in marketing, biology and business administration. Let’s talk about that project in Vegas. You were just telling me about it sounds just wild.

Speaker 2 (5m 52s): Yeah, very excited about it. So, as you know, I’m invested in a traction in Costa Rica called Diamante Echo Adventure Park. And it’s a, it’s a, it’s a zip line park with an animal sanctuary at the end. And part of the same group of those of my partners, we all started a project in Vegas. It’s gonna be called Crash and Burn. It’s gonna be a bar and a restaurant and barcade kind of theme with a live music venue inside, right on Fremont Street.

And on the rooftop of this four story building will be an outside skydiving, air floating attraction. Similar to, have you ever seen an eye fly or you know, a tube where you see people skydiving inside or floating in the air? Sure. This will be open air, so out in the open and you’re gonna rise above Fremont Street and people on Fremont Street will be able to see you flying high in the air, you know, above the bar and restaurant and above the, above the building. It’ll be really cool.

Speaker 1 (6m 50s): So cool. So cool.

Speaker 2 (6m 52s): Yeah. We’re gonna open up in September, October of this year just in time for the Formula one in Las Vegas and for the Super Bowl, which is happening in 2024.

Speaker 1 (7m 1s): That is neat. Yeah, it is gonna be in Vegas, isn’t it? Oh, I so hope my niners are in that one. My goodness. So money. It’s been a while since we’ve talked. Now I hear differing opinions about the overall domain market, specifically in the adult space. What’s the current market for domains? Well,

Speaker 2 (7m 21s): Their overall market for domains is okay, we’re in a challenging economic period of time with cryptocurrencies and, and worldwide markets, you know, depleted a little bit. Domain names are a alternative investment strategy for many, but it happens to be one of the few assets that retain its value or has some value that’s above expectations over time. So whether it’s an adult name, which is actually kind of a slower market as you know in this time period. Yes. Or a premium domain name, you know, keyword, one word, dictionary, terms, search terms, those types of things.

You know, some of those key.com names are still selling. And for some, for record values, I noticed in an adult industry that, you know, with the coming together in the consolidation of the industry, you know, back when I started in the mid nineties to late nineties, the adult industry had a completely different footprint. You know, it was, you know, 20 main companies, hundreds of affiliates. Yeah. And then a bunch of sub and second tier companies. Now there’s five, you know, main companies. They’re also in the mainstream industry as well.

Yes. The affiliate business has kind of changed so much and of course it went from paid to, you know, to free companies make their money in different ways. So yes, a lot of those adult names aren’t as valuable as they may or should have been. You know, in the last couple years a lot of people are making big plays in second tier domain names and driving traffic and using other techniques to build value on those websites versus interesting, you know, things like porn.com or sex.com or you know, pussy.com and you know, things like that.

You know, names I’ve been involved in sales in from the past.

Speaker 1 (9m 2s): If you look into your crystal ball, what do you think if, if I buy an adult domain name today, what are the prospects a good one?

Speaker 2 (9m 13s): You mean prospects to sell or develop

Speaker 1 (9m 16s): The prospects to for it to grow over the years?

Speaker 2 (9m 20s): Well, I’m still a big believer in natural type in traffic. You know, obviously keyword domain names, whether it be adult or regular domain names. Those that get natural type in traffic because people are still typing them into the U R L line. Yeah. To me that’s a huge benefit in terms of value because you’re not paying for search, you’re not paying for PPC or CPC to position that name artificially or naturally into a position. So it’s true still the keyword dictionary terms, the keyword traffic drivers are the most valuable domain names.

And I think those will always be valuable over time. Yeah. Dot com, you know, continues to be the king of the roost. Yes. You know, just because it was the first established commercial domain name in, you know, in our environment. Sure. However, you know, the new generations of users are children, for example, they don’t know what com stands for. They don’t know what it means. They don’t know the importance of it. So they’re using alternative extensions already. And because there’s a lot of.com names already gone, they’re using the alternative domain names. Yes. And as you know, a lot of alternative extensions like AI for artificial intelligence, which is, you know, a country code and so is io and.cc, if you remember the old days.cc used to stand for carbon copy tv, which is Tuvalu had a meaning for television.

And now there’s a thousand new top level domain names like.hiphop and like.auto and like.adult and like.sex and triple triplex and all these other extensions

Speaker 1 (10m 48s): And.porn. Right, right.

Speaker 2 (10m 49s): And.porn. So they’re all, they all have their niches. You know, obviously the, the secondary extensions or the top level extensions that were just added in 2013, they’re not gonna get the natural typing traffic that.com gets. So once it website is built onto that, you know, onto that D domain name and then search engine placement is positioned properly, then that will drive the interest and the traffic that will raise the value of those.

Speaker 1 (11m 13s): Interesting. So you’re okay with the domain name, adult site broker?

Speaker 2 (11m 18s): Oh yeah. Love it.

Speaker 1 (11m 20s): I do too. That’s why I bought it. And so many more. So how are domain names good investments in 2023?

Speaker 2 (11m 32s): Well, because there was a little bit of a recessionary hit to the domain ministry, obviously people are divesting in some of their portfolios, so it’s a good time to invest in domain names at a discount like it always has been in these recessionary periods. There you

Speaker 1 (11m 47s): Go.

Speaker 2 (11m 48s): Since, since I was in the business in 1994, I’ve faced three recessionary periods and the first recessionary period, which was in the, you know, early 1999, 2000 period, selling domain names back then kept us in business, you know, interesting. And that was helping people liquidate domain names that they needed to divert that money to, you know, pay tuition for school and you know, basically pay bills. We as a, you know, as the main middleman or the main brokerage slash auctioneer at the time, we made our living helping buyers and sellers, you know, transact those, those transactions obviously.

So we’re in that kind of same situation right now because we’re facing economic hardship. Some people just aren’t, as, you know, there’s liquid domainers, which have a lot of cash, a lot of money just like in any, just like cryptocurrency and other fields that are alternative investment fields. And then there’s others that are dabbling in it as a hobby. Right. And they’ve put a, you know, some substantial amount of money into that, but their main part of business is another job, you know, another industry opportunity. And so they’re more willing to say, you know what, something I would sell for $10,000 in 2019, 2020.

I would sell for three or 4,000 now. Yeah. And you know, so we’re looking at, in some cases, you know, in some cases 50 to 70% discounts on, you know, some premium and some sub premium properties. Right. But on the other hand, some of the largest transactions have happened because of some of those opportunities. At the same time, I just got done with a, a 4.2 million transaction. I can’t say what the name is, but it was a company that majorly shifted their brand from a two word domain name to a one word premium domain name.

And it was very strategic time for their business. And so it made sense for them to spend that money, you know, to do so.

Speaker 1 (13m 39s): Okay. Are you in a buying mode right now when it comes to domains? Personally,

Speaker 2 (13m 44s): No. I’m more in, you know, I own a few thousand domain names now. I, I started off registering. That’s all up. Well, you know, I, but I’m not, I’m not actively like buying names in the aftermarket. I’ll register some, you know, new registrations that I see. Keywords or trending opportunities from the news or from technology, you know, internet documents and posts and stuff. You know, that’s how some of this stuff started in the very beginning anyway. And there’s still some great opportunities to buy domain names in various extensions with certain keywords that are, you know, something into the future.

But I primarily help others divest or invest in domain names through our right of the dot brokerage and our auctions. Okay. And so I’m, I’m still probably the only market maker in the industry because of the auction environment that we produce. Yeah. Yeah. So I still do the, all the auctions in the industry for NamesCon. We’re gonna be doing an auction for the first time at Miami NFT week. And we’re gonna be auctioning off web three domain names and NFTs and also web two domains.

And so we’re getting into all kinds of, of other kinds of digital real estate. So we’re evolving with the industry and what’s hot and what’s not.

Speaker 1 (14m 56s): I haven’t seen you do one at an adult show for a while.

Speaker 2 (14m 59s): I have not, but I’m not opposed to it. We used to hold the biggest auctions ever at, I know, at, at the adult shows. And I traveled to Amsterdam and, and we talked about Lisbon and I did an auction there and Macau, China did an auction there for the adult industry. And, and of course in Vegas and, and of course in South Florida where I live for the largest conferences in the world. So we Hmm. We helped sell some of the biggest adult domain names in, in, you know, in the entire industry, so, right. But I’m, I’m open to it. And I just got tapped on the shoulder by Affiliate Summit, cuz they wanna see another auction again.

Great. Cause it was really exciting, you know, back 10, 15 years ago and they’re looking for ways to build excitement for that.

Speaker 1 (15m 41s): Well, just let me know, you know, that I know all the promoters very well, so if you wanna do something, say with t e s in Prague or, you know, the Yeah, I can’t think of it right now, but, well,

Speaker 2 (15m 60s): AVN

Speaker 1 (16m 1s): No, no, that’s not who I’m thinking. That’s not who I’m thinking of. But anyway. Yeah. But I know all the promoters, so I can certainly help you.

Speaker 2 (16m 9s): I really appreciate

Speaker 1 (16m 10s): It. Oh, of course, of course. How long have we known each other, Monique? Geez, you were, you were at moniker when we met and how many years ago was that?

Speaker 2 (16m 18s): Well, I started in the domain industry in 1994, but I started moniker as a actual company in 2001, I believe is when I acquired the registrar.

Speaker 1 (16m 27s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): So it’s been, it’s about when

Speaker 1 (16m 29s): I, and that’s about when I got into adult. I think I’ve known you since then, so Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16m 34s): I was a, I was a reseller for several registrars before that, and then decided to buy a registrar from a Canadian company in Mississauga and, and rename it moniker. So that’s how MONIKER became moniker.

Speaker 1 (16m 47s): And it did very well. Did very well. Yes. I I used them. I used them until you left. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16m 55s): Yeah. And I, and I, I was the only registrar that really focused on the adult industry Really. Because I

Speaker 1 (16m 60s): Remember, I remember, yeah. That’s why I used you, this supported

Speaker 2 (17m 4s): Us in the nineties. In the nineties I had high, very high degree of respect for the adult industry that the adult company CEOs and, and leaders, because it was one of the most regulated types of businesses back then. They, you know, they, they basically created credit card transactions on the web. Yep. They helped with secure socket layers. They were very loyal companies once you got their business. And so I started showing up at ABN conferences back in the late nineties, early two thousands.

And I was only registrar, you know, there.

Speaker 1 (17m 38s): Yeah. Inter Next went along with it. Yeah, right. Which they used to co-own. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So you have a lot of auctions with right of the dot, what’s the schedule for this year?

Speaker 2 (17m 52s): So we’re doing two auctions in the, in the next several months actually. There’ll be, there’ll probably be a couple more added before between now and the end of the year. Okay. So we’re, for the first time we’re gonna be going to N F T Miami N f t Week, which is a three to 5,000 attendee show in Miami, which is the start of Miami Tech Week. And then the Bitcoin conference comes to Miami also. And so the organizers there are really excited to have something new and, you know, exciting. So we’re gonna do an auction on April 1st, I believe.

I don’t know the exact time yet. We’re still working at the schedule, but I think

Speaker 1 (18m 26s): This will, I think this will run after that, unfortunately. But how about after that?

Speaker 2 (18m 31s): After that we’ll be names Con in Austin, Texas, which is the 28th, I think it’s the 28th or 30th of May through June 3rd, something like that. Okay. I think it’s, I think it’s May 30th through June 3rd. Okay. And so I’ve always done that auction. And also if, if you remember prior to that, all the traffic auctions before that as well.

Speaker 1 (18m 54s): I did.

Speaker 2 (18m 54s): So that’ll be a pretty big show. They’re combining names con with, with their cloud computing company. I’m trying to remember the name of it, but I’ll remember in a minute. Cloudfest, sorry. So there’ll be a cloudfest and NamesCon combined in Austin, Texas during those dates. And we’ll do a live on the second day of that conference.

Speaker 1 (19m 16s): Cloudfest sounds like it, it should be a cannabis event. But that’s just, you know, that’s just my opinion.

Speaker 2 (19m 23s): It’s the largest cloud computing hosting conference in the, in the world actually. It’s like, so the same, the same group that owns names Con or has the right to it. They, they run cloudfest well,

Speaker 1 (19m 33s): It’s like, wow, man, we we’re gonna go to cloudfest, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): In Austin, Texas, man. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (19m 40s): Exactly. So I’ve used your company many times for domain appraisals. How important is it to get a domain appraised prior to putting it on the market?

Speaker 2 (19m 51s): You know, I started the, I invented the appraisal model back in 1998. I think, you know, once we started selling some domain names, people always wanna know, well, what’s my domain name worth? So, you know, if you think of domain names as virtual property, or again, compare it to physical property, some of the same attributes apply. So, right. If you have a piece of property in downtown Manhattan, you know what, why is that piece of property important, for example? So it has tons of street traffic, right? Tons of car traffic,

Speaker 1 (20m 21s): Location, location,

Speaker 2 (20m 22s): Location, more, more likely. Yeah. Location. So you’re more likely to walk into a vendor or into a store, into an apartment building that’s on Madison Avenue or Fifth Avenue or you know, some premium place or beachfront property, like kind of close to where I live. You know, premium beachfront condos. They tend to be more valuable because of its desirability, how close it is to something that’s, you know, desirable. In the case of a downtown location, how much traffic goes through that particular street corner or, or avenue and type in domain traffic is very similar to that traffic.

So if you type in domain name a keyword, like autos.com or like wall street.com or like porn.com, which I sold all those. Yeah. They got tons, you know, literally thousands of unique visitors every single day. So automatically that comes with value because you don’t have pay type traffic. Sure. It’s natural traffic. So Right. When you, when you ask for an appraisal, there’s a couple reasons, and I’ve done appraisals for all kinds of reasons. I, I had to do appraisal recently, and I’ve done it many times for a divorce case. So you have a, a party in the divorce that has a portfolio of domain names.

The lawyers have no idea how to assess that value. There’s no Right, there’s no expert except somebody like me Right. Who can say, okay, this is what this portfolio’s worth or this one domain name, and how do you split that asset between, you know, husband and wife or husband, husband, wife and wife, whatever. It’s

Speaker 1 (21m 45s): The reason three. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21m 47s): The other, the other reason for appraisal, which I did tons of, were for IRS donation purposes. So if somebody wrote off a domain name and donated it to charity, they wanted to use that appraisal obviously to take down their, you know, capital gains. Sure. That’s something I don’t do as much anymore because, you know, the IRS treats domain names a little bit differently than physical property. So you have to be very careful when you do something like that.

Speaker 1 (22m 10s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (22m 11s): Bankruptcies is another wing, similar to the divorce reasons, corporations, I do a lot of appraisal work for corporations when they’re either ready to buy another company and take, you know, like as a merger and acquisition, and they’re trying to assess the value of what that portfolio on the other side looks like if it is a domain portfolio. Interesting. So I did, I did one for Bosch. You, you remember the company Bosch? Go ahead. They make kitchen appliances. They’re also the number one manufacturers of, of windshield wipers, and they also make breaks for BMWs and, and Mercedes.

Right. And a number of other things. Well, they ended up buying a healthcare company about 15 years ago. Hmm. And they didn’t buy the healthcare company because of the healthcare portfolio. They bought it because of a, of a software technology that they wanted to use in another part of their business. Interesting. So they had this portfolio of medical names, which they didn’t have any idea what the value was. And, and I’m talking about direct disease related to medical names, like aids.com, cancer cure.com, cancer treatment.com, leprosy.com, you know, all these keyword domains.

They hired me to assess the value of those domain names, and then I helped sell off the portfolio.

Speaker 1 (23m 21s): Nice.

Speaker 2 (23m 22s): So those are just a handful of reasons. And then of course, if somebody just wants to know, you know, what’s a name worth before they either buy it or they sell it to get an idea.

Speaker 1 (23m 29s): Yeah. There you go.

Speaker 2 (23m 30s): What to expect.

Speaker 1 (23m 31s): Yeah, there you go. But I mean, in terms of, look, I hear from people all the time. I’ve got a, and I’ve got a rule. Well, the first thing I do is I, when somebody sends me domains, which frankly I am kind of moving away from domains because of what we talked about at the top of the program from more than anything else, they tend to be difficult to sell in the adult space unless you got a got a porn.com. The whole thing is, if somebody wants to look at selling a domain name, let’s say it passes my eye test, which my eye test is getting more stringent every day.

I go, okay, is

Speaker 2 (24m 11s): That cause you need glasses?

Speaker 1 (24m 13s): No. Have those,

Speaker 2 (24m 15s): I’m just

Speaker 1 (24m 15s): Kidding. That was good money. That was, that was, that was really good. He’ll be here all week. So the thing is that I tell them I have a requirement, you need to get an appraisal because don’t ask me what it’s worth because that’s not my area. Okay. I’ve got a guy who is an expert and that guy would be you. Okay. Well, thank you. So, you know, it’s pretty obvious, you know, I mean, and you’re welcome.

So if they don’t want to pay for an appraisal, okay, thank you. That’s kind of the deal. Most people, frankly, who come to me with the domain, the domain isn’t really worth the price of registration. Or they’ll give me a loan that,

Speaker 2 (25m 2s): That happens a lot.

Speaker 1 (25m 3s): They give me a, a list of like 200 domains. I’m, I tell ’em I’ll always look okay. And I, I go, quite frankly, I’m not thrilled about any of these. That’s usually my answer. And I have to be honest, Bruce,

Speaker 2 (25m 17s): That’s self

Speaker 1 (25m 19s): Platform.

Speaker 2 (25m 20s): Yeah. And that’s usually the case with most people’s portfolio. It’s a, I’m sure you heard of the 80 20 rule. Well, with domain names, it’s like the 95 5 rule. So, you know, usually 5%. So 5% of the domain names drive 90% of the value, whether it’s either value or traffic, they want to take over a particular market in terms of a domain strategy, which is smart in some ways. Right? Like if, if you hit a market segment. I had a client many years ago, his name was Bill Gormley, love the guy. And before anyone knew what nanotechnology was, he started reading about nanotechnology.

This is back in, this is literally back in the late nineties, early two thousands. Hmm. He registered, you know, a hundred different nano names. So, okay. You know, at the time no one knew what nanotechnology was. And you know, he registered all his name as moniker. So, you know, we were glad to have the registrations. Sure. And sure enough, 15 years later, he ended up selling a bunch of those names through us and through others, and it turned out to be a goodbye. Sure. Cause all you

Speaker 1 (26m 18s): Have, all you have to do in the end, if you, if you register a hundred names and it costs you what, you know, oh, it’s gonna cost you a thousand dollars. Okay. Or, or is it thousand

Speaker 2 (26m 31s): Dollars per year? Yeah. If you’re registering from scratch, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 34s): It’s gonna cost you a thousand dollars and then you sell a couple later for $5,000 each. You’ve obviously made 10 times your money.

Speaker 2 (26m 44s): Yeah. And, and, but it doesn’t always work out that way for everybody. Everybody seems to get on that same kind of wave. Right? Yeah, sure. And to be honest, it’s harder to sell a portfolio than it is to sell individual names. So if you get a portfolio of those nano names, you know, selling one or two or three for, you know, 10 to $50,000, which is what he did. So he paid himself back Sure. And made some money. But not all of them are sold. And some people end up with thousands of names and they’ll go to, they’ll die with thousands of names in their portfolio and it’ll be handed off to their kids and estates. That’s another reason why I do appraisals, by the way, for estate.

Right.

Speaker 1 (27m 16s): Right.

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): So some people think by cornering a market in a certain technology field that you’re gonna get more for a portfolio, but that’s not necessarily true. You get a fraction of the upsell part by having the whole portfolio, because most companies aren’t, you know, in all those different segments. But the, the most successful domainers are those that own several different kinds of keywords or dictionary terms or, or traffic domains in various fields. Yeah. So that they’re, they’re diversified a little bit.

Speaker 1 (27m 42s): Yeah. Well, I’ll get an idea by a domain and then if I don’t develop the idea, which is most of the time I let it go, but it doesn’t end up being like a huge loser for me. I’ve bought a lot of things having to do with my field as defensive domains. Yeah. And yeah. And I am letting some go because they’re just too far off. You know, they’re just like, okay, somebody wants to buy that, that’s fine. That’s not gonna hurt me.

So Yeah. I’ve, I’m getting things, you know, like daily from name silo, this is gonna expire. I’m thinking, good, let it, so

Speaker 2 (28m 20s): Yeah. So, so, you know, defensive registrations are hardly worth anything. It’s only for your own use so that other people Oh yeah, of course. Infringe, infringe on your, you know, IP or your, your what, your ideas. But if you were to let those go, nobody’s gonna, you know, nobody’s gonna pick up the misspells anymore. Right.

Speaker 1 (28m 37s): It

Speaker 2 (28m 37s): Keeps

Speaker 1 (28m 37s): Competitors out, is what it does.

Speaker 2 (28m 39s): And if you try to register someone’s favorite famous mark, you’re gonna end up in a U D R P and, you know, or a lawsuit or something. It’s not worth it. So. No,

Speaker 1 (28m 46s): Exactly.

Speaker 2 (28m 47s): All my advice to everybody is stay away from Misspells and Tys and, and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 52s): If you’re gonna buy a misspell or a typo, make it of your own domain. Yes. I, I get things all the time with PornHub in the name and Xn xx in the name and only fans in the name. And I go, I’m gonna tell you something right now, let that domain go because, and don’t even sell it because you are gonna end up in a lawsuit. Yep. They will sue you and they will win, and you’re gonna have to defend it.

Speaker 2 (29m 21s): Right. And then you have the other side, which is called reverse hijacking, which means that you actually own the common law trademark rights before Famous Mark came and registered theirs.

Speaker 1 (29m 32s): Oh geez.

Speaker 2 (29m 33s): And they try to bully you into letting your name go, and then they end up losing and they can lose up to a hundred thousand dollars from that. So. Hmm. As you know, or, or you might remember, I own the domain name you porn with the letter you instead of Y O U. Yes,

Speaker 1 (29m 46s): Sir. And

Speaker 2 (29m 46s): I, I own that name. And the common law trademark way before you porn y o u porn came into existence. Yeah. So in that case, you know, you have a right and a legitimate right. To own that name and, you know, youn and, you know, mind geeks or whatever might be interesting buying that someday, which I’d be willing to sell. But I, I own that game and, you know. Right. I, I had that well before anybody else had the trade. How’s that

Speaker 1 (30m 10s): Site? How’s that site going?

Speaker 2 (30m 12s): It’s going, you know, it’s, it’s going, it’s making some money. There you go. It’s, it’s a little side.

Speaker 1 (30m 17s): That’s nice. That’s nice to hear as as opposed to the last time we discussed it. So it’s a beautiful Exactly.

Speaker 2 (30m 22s): Wasn’t doing anything.

Speaker 1 (30m 24s): Oh, I remember a lot about that. I do remember a lot about that. We, we won’t get into the

Speaker 2 (30m 30s): Disaster introduction to somebody who,

Speaker 1 (30m 33s): Oh God, did I introduce you to him? I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. Anyway, without giving away your secret sauce, how are domains appraised?

Speaker 2 (30m 45s): I started off very similar to how real properties appraised. So remember we talked about the busy street corner? Yes. The city or the beachfront property. Right. So those types of things are used for virtual real estate the same way there’s marketability search term value, PPC value, CPC value. And I happen to own and operate the largest comparable database of sales in the domain industry. So unlike the real estate industry, now, if you think back in the early days where cavemen existed, you know, there were land grabs and real estate, right?

Yeah. And then, then real estate was traded off for coins or for cows, or for sheep and for, you know, various other types of assets. Sure. And, and then it became traded off for daughters.

Speaker 1 (31m 32s): And in some, right. I was just was about to say, and, and, and in some Muslim countries that still happens. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31m 39s): It still happens. Right? Right. So if it’s a dictionary term, if it’s a keyword term, if it’s a trending term, if it’s a, if it’s a term or a word that has natural typing traffic, if it’s something that’s in a particular industry that’s strong. Right. Those all carry weight and value, of course the comparable database is probably the most important thing now because unlike when I first started this and there was only a handful of sales, now there’s, you know, now there’s a couple million sales to compare to. Now that doesn’t compare to hundreds of millions of sales like there is in real estate, but it is comparable.

So you can say, okay, is auto.com like car.com? Yes, it is. Is autos and autos comparable? Yes, they are. Vehicles and autos or trucks, you know, so now you have segments and market segments of comparable domain names. Those are obviously carry value. You can use a comparable database from sales that were made public and use that as a comparable database. Just like if you had an appraisal of your house, the number one key thing and an appra house appraisal value is what did the house across the street from ECE for. Yeah. Is it also a 42 or 43?

Yeah. Does it have a renovation? Does it have new appliances, new air conditioners, all that shit. Exactly. So same kinds of metrics without going into the detail, but we do 21 of those metrics Yeah. In order to, to come, come to value. Wow. Wow. So that, that’s a little bit of a taste of that.

Speaker 1 (33m 1s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): And I’ve done over 540,000 domain appraisals myself, you know, physically, Jesus, Jesus,

Speaker 1 (33m 7s): Jesus Christ. That’s crazy.

Speaker 2 (33m 8s): So it’s been, it’s been a lot of appraisals. It’s not something I like to do anymore, but I’ll do it in special cases.

Speaker 1 (33m 15s): There you go. For me. Thank you, Monica. That’s

Speaker 2 (33m 18s): For you and your clients and you. And when I get hired by the, you know, the big corporate things and the divorce cases and the, and the Those are

Speaker 1 (33m 24s): Profitable. Yeah. Those are profitable, minor

Speaker 2 (33m 26s): And the estate sales and, you know, somebody dies. What’s this worth? I did appraisal recently, well it was last year for a court ordered takeover by, you know, the court ordered a, a lawyer, a legal group to take over a portfolio of domains because the CEO committed a crime. So this was called income store. Probably some of the people on the show would h would’ve heard about, it was like one of the big scams. They owned thousands of domain names. They were building websites on the domain names and then they were using the funds from new investors to pay the old investors off.

And they got caught in a Ponzi scheme. Oh lovely. And so we ended up, we ended up having to praise the portfolio and then put the whole portfolio up for sale in several auctions and to help with the divestiture and to pay back all the original people that got ripped off. Well that’s good. They didn’t get, they didn’t get most of their money back, but they got some fraction of it. And it’s better than getting nothing.

Speaker 1 (34m 16s): Yeah, absolutely. You know what bugs me the most? Some brokers and how they use comparables. I had, I had one situation and oh God, I was myself in this mainstream broker. We were starting to get at each other’s throats. At a certain point, I’m sure you know, this person, I contacted them to buy a domain on the part of, for the group of domains, on behalf of my client. And it was, it was laughable because the domain wasn’t even close to anything like this.

But she was giving me things like autos.com and it was just like, oh my god, no, no, no. And it just got, it just got crazy. But I can’t say she wasn’t good at what she did. She finally ended up getting the price up fairly high. And my client really needed to buy this because he didn’t have the.com of his, his company. And he made the mistake of not spending a little money and buying the.com of his company before his company got well known. So he had, he had pay the price for, that’s, oh it’s a huge mistake.

And he, he said it himself, so that’s okay. You know, we got, we got it for him and he’s happy and the seller’s happy. So that’s what it comes down to. You have the exclusive for the extension hiphop. Hiphop is also a web three domain extension on the Ethereum naming system. I always have problems with pronouncing that. It’s also the fifth anniversary of hiphop. Now how do I buy a.hiphop domain?

Speaker 2 (35m 54s): Yeah, it’s good. It’s good that you ask. So if you go to our website, which is get.hiphop, you will be pointed to see whether your search term or your domain name is available. And then it’ll point you to several registrar partners where you can register them. The really cool thing about.hiphop is that it’s the first community and cultural open domain extension besides dot gay. That is for an entire community and culture that’s open without restriction. the.hiphop, I mean the hiphop community and culture is worldwide. It involves about a million, a billion people, billion with a B.

It’s the 50th anniversary. Hiphop was first created in 1973 on August 11th by a DJ called Cool Herk. And he brought out a DJ set up and held a party for his cousin’s birthday and started mixing records together and hip hop was born Interesting. And it became a huge phenomena after that. And now it’s the most popular music genre, the most popular Jan dance genre and fashion genre. But it also is a, people identify themselves as a hiphop culture and community.

So it’s really cool to be able to have a new top level domain name that represents that, that group of people. And now they can have their own extension, register a.hiphop domain name, use it for their email, use it for their website. Yeah. And the cool thing is on top of that is it’s on the web three smart contract blockchain through the Ethereum names naming system. Imagine an an artist now, unlike the old days, they can drop a new album or a new song into an N F T that has a.hiphop domain name and they’re able to share that music.

And inside the token is how much the money they get paid every time it changes wallets. Wow. Back in the old days, everyone sold their rights for a particular song or a particular hit. And many of the original hip hop stars are broke. They’re in poverty because they sold their rights away back in the early days. Right. It’s a big music catalog company. So if you ever watched NWA Straight Outta Compton in the movie

Speaker 1 (37m 52s): No, no. Heard about, he says

Speaker 2 (37m 53s): A lot about how the old style contracts worked and how Yeah. The music companies took the majority of the rights, kinda like Don King and Mike Tyson, you know, and you know how he

Speaker 1 (38m 5s): Yeah, that’s what I was thinking about. Oh my God. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38m 8s): It’s like you get a, you would get a $50,000 check or a hundred thousand dollars check, but you had to pay for your own studio time and your, your own agents and producers. And then you end up basically in, you know, underwater.

Speaker 1 (38m 18s): Oh, king was taking, king was taking everything from Tyson. It was ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (38m 23s): Yeah, absolutely ridiculous. So this happened in the music industry, not only to hip hop stars, but to, you know, rock and roll. And I mean everybody, you know, the people were taken advantage of. Ray Charles was one of the first ones who put his foot down with ABC Records after he left. His former record company said, you know what? I need to retain the rights to my music and, and I want 60% of the proceeds. And he won. And so music, music rights and music contracts were reborn from that, you know, a long, long time ago. But a lot of the hiphop stars unfortunately didn’t catch onto that wave.

Yeah. So we’re really excited about.hiphop and it just so happened, you know, it kind of fell in my lap. But after I bought the registry and got a partner who’s, you know, from the Bronx and who’s a successful businessman in New York, we figured out after we bought it, that’s the 50th anniversary coming up. Great. So it’s kinda, so obviously we’re gonna ride the wave of that and we’re gonna be involved in a lot of concert celebrations, promotions, the hiphop museum is being built and will open up in 2024 in the Bronx. It’s a huge project.

The mayor of New York is all behind all kinds of calendar events regarding the birth of hiphop, the celebration, and the birthday. And it’s gonna be worldwide. So pretty, we’re really excited about it. And the, there’s millions and millions and millions of available domain names cuz it’s a new registry. So Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39m 41s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39m 41s): It’s a good speculation opportunity for investment. And also we’ve reserved all the famous stars and hip hop album names and music label covers names so that they can’t be cyber squatted. So we reserve those for those that will get those because they have the rights to them this time.

Speaker 1 (39m 59s): Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. So what exactly, besides what you already said is a web three domain extension and how does it relate to Ethereum?

Speaker 2 (40m 11s): Well, the e n s, which is the Ethereum naming system, is different than what people might hear that handshake names are. Or there, there’s th there’s a few different types of web three names. So some web three names are made up names that now they act like domain names, but you can’t build a website on ’em. You can’t use it for your email. But there’s short name, so you don’t have to send people your token address, which is a 64 to 75 digit, you know, tokenized alpha numer code. Right. Which no one can memorize.

So you can now send it to a domain name, you can send money, you know, cryptocurrency back and forth to the domain name because it’s on the blockchain and on a smart contract. So that’s one advantage. The other advantage is, is that Ethereum naming system complies with i a n, it’s the only blockchain domain name that actually follows i a n regulations and rules. And that’s why.hiphop and some other extensions can, now you can buy the domain name, have your website and use it in your email where you can’t for handshake names for example. Right. And you can use it as a token address.

Hmm. So it gives a, gives an advantage. I I like e n S a little bit better. I’m not opposed to the other extensions that are web three. Right. It’s just that in the future there’s gonna be something called collision where the next round of ICAN accredited domain extensions might contain a dot crypto or a dot nft and there’s already those that exist in the web. Three handshake type domain names or unstoppable domain names. Those are the other ones. Hmm. And once it’s, once there’s an ICAN accredited extension, there’s gonna be something called collision because who, which extension, you know, is more important.

Right, right. Which one’s gonna exist. Yeah. And my gut tells me that the ICAN extensions will still exist. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (41m 52s): Cause they have, they have the, they have the power, right.

Speaker 2 (41m 55s): Well they have the DNS power, so you know, if, if you wanna have a website or an email address, you’re gonna want that.

Speaker 1 (42m 1s): Okay, got it. Got it. So besides.com and.hiphop that we just talked about, what are some of the other up and coming extensions that people should be investing in

Speaker 2 (42m 14s): In the current round of extensions? You know, some of the most successful extensions, new extensions have been something like.club, which I’m sure you heard about. I helped, I helped.club create their premium lists and helped them get started with creating, you know, what, what were the premium names left of the.to the right of the.so that, you know, the most important things with new extensions is that there has to be linguistic flow from the right of the.to the left of the dot or from the left of the.to the right of dot. So if makes sense, if you have buy cars, that makes sense.

rap.hiphop dance dot hip hop songs, hiphop tho that makes sense. Yeah. If you have curtains, cars, that doesn’t make much sense. Or if you have some obscure name to the left of the dot, that doesn’t make sense. So Sure. A lot of the popular extensions, you wanna make sure that there’s linguistic flow to the left of the.so it makes sense to somebody when they’re typing it in. The whole goal is to, you know, make it easier to search, make it easy to remember, make it easy to spell and make sure that in, if you’re not using a.com, that you make sure that your clients and customers know that you use a, an extension. Now that’s one of the new extensions, so you gotta make sure it’s on your business cards, in your advertising and so on and so forth.

So I like things like.club, I like things like tech site. There’s gonna be a new web that’s gonna be coming out soon that’s gonna compete with.com. Of course I love hiphop.

Speaker 1 (43m 34s): You better for,

Speaker 2 (43m 34s): You know, for its, you know, for its cultural community and it’s millions of variable options to do that. So, and I don’t know what’s coming in, in the new round, which should be coming out in 2025 to 26 or something. Yeah. But apparently there’ll be more extensions available, you know, based off of current trends and corporate, you know, there’s a lot of corporations that felt that they got gypped out and didn’t understand what it was all about. So, you know, there is a dot, ibm, there’s a dot, there’s a lot of dot, you know, 300 dot corporate names that have, you know, that now people, you know, you want your, you want your email and your website to end in your extension that you’re famous war.

You don’t want it to be a.com necessarily because nobody knows what com means. You know, interesting com stands for commercial, but people think it stood for communication or commerce or community or communication and, and it doesn’t stands for commercial, which meant for profit at the time. Right. And it and com is not a dictionary term, but you know, hip hop is, and do, you know, autos is and do sex is, you know. Right. So that’s what’s really important.

Speaker 1 (44m 37s): Okay. Things are changing. I, if I have a.com or another primary domain like.net or.biz, what other extensions of my brand should I own?

Speaker 2 (44m 49s): You mean to, to cover yourself in defensive registrations?

Speaker 1 (44m 52s): Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (44m 54s): Well, the most common, you know, coverage obviously is.net.com.org. You know, if you’re just doing general coverage, you know, I, I’ll be the first one to tell you, you don’t need to do it in all thousand extensions. Of course not. So if you are in certain industries, you should cover yourself in those industries. If you are in the tech industry, you should get a.tech. If you’re in the website industry, you should get a.website or.site, you know, to help cover you as well. Not only just to cover you, but you may want to use ’em as subsites or other domain site, you know, projects, you know, use link use and you know, link each other’s site together.

You know, defensive registration is really important for corporations based off of what industry you’re in and what you’re doing. So if I’m in the adult industry, you know, I probably wanna cover myself in some of those adult extensions.sex, not adult.porn triplex. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (45m 40s): I got that one. And

Speaker 2 (45m 41s): Why not? Plus you can launch other, other websites off of each of those in your same keywords. That’s true. And, and the same goes for any industry, I would say.

Speaker 1 (45m 49s): Okay. Very good. So last question, what’s your best advice for people who liken themselves as domain investors?

Speaker 2 (45m 58s): Best advice is to look at the newest trends. Also look at buying opportunities in down economic environments like, like now where people are selling things at a discount because everything’s cyclical and it will go back up again. Sure. So, you know, over time, this, in this, this market, this domain investment market has always grant grown in value over time. Just like the stock market has. Rarity is the key to investment value. So as the.com extensions keep running out, I mean as the.com keyword names keep running out because they’ve been registered or in use.

But the best simulation, you know, best, best assimilation to this whole process, which I think we’ve discussed before, is once upon a time there was an 800 number that was free, toll-free number in the industry, right? And so there used to be an 800 buy cars and 800 doctors and 800 flowers. And that’s because no one could remember the digits of the phone number. So they remembered the word and they’d spell out the word on your phone pad, right? When all those extensions, I mean when all those keywords ran out and all those number combinations ran out, what did they do? They expanded the, the

Speaker 1 (47m 2s): 8 88 66, 8, 7, 7, 5, 8, 4, 4, 8, 3, 3 8, 2 2,

Speaker 2 (47m 8s): There’s 20 tollfree numbers. Yeah. Every single tollfree number has a buy cars and they’re all registered by different companies. Again, our new generation of users don’t even know what an 800 number is because everything is free on the cell phone of

Speaker 1 (47m 23s): Course. So,

Speaker 2 (47m 24s): But 800 flowers didn’t get rid of their 800 number, nor did they get rid of eight 800 flowers.com, which is a keyword word that they use. And the reason for that is they established loyalty and brand recognition off of it. So those were always important. Right. So my advice is you look for some of the new extensions in those same keywords because they’ll be almost as popular as that 800 extension was. You know, over time as you’re, as the new generations start using, you know, start getting on the web, which they all will. Yeah. They know that comms not available, so they’re gonna go to an alternate extension.

That makes sense. Right? If you’re a lawyer, why not get a.law or a.legal? Yeah. If you’re in the adult industry, get a dot triplex or.porn or.adult or doex or

Speaker 1 (48m 5s): All of them.

Speaker 2 (48m 5s): If you’re in the music industry, you’re gonna get a dot music, which is restricted when it comes out, or.hiphop or you know, something that related because it makes linguistic sense and it makes sense. And, and that’s where the, the, the trend is going. And you wanna look for trends, you know, new trends in what you see in the news and stuff, and then you’ll pick up new keywords, the urban dictionaries, Everly expanding as well. That’s a whole new type of, you know, linguistic wording to things. And so then you’ll see more dot coms and more nets and orgs and, and other extensions become popular because of that.

Speaker 1 (48m 37s): Fabulous. Hey Monty, I’d like to thank you for being back with us again back and again, that’s redundant on don’t say broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (48m 47s): I really appreciate the time, Bruce. And if anybody needs to get ahold of me, you can get in touch with me@montyget.hiphop or monty@rightofthe.dot com.

Speaker 1 (48m 57s): Okay. You heard it everyone. Thanks Monty. Thanks

Speaker 2 (49m 0s): Bruce. I really appreciate

Speaker 1 (49m 2s): It. My broker tip today is part three, what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about making a good offer and how to structure your site. Next, keep your website designed up to date, do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date. Times change. So should your website, look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like.

If you know a site to be successful, look at what they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying copy it, I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit. You’ve gotta keep up with the times or you’ll end up being left behind. Also, keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more. Don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good and competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t?

Check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet the competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all of your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’re gonna lose customers. People are not patient these days. People’s attention spans are like that of a nat.

They click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for or if the site is hard to navigate or things don’t work, check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Zach Ozbourne of Exclusv Life. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Monte Cahn of Right of the Dot.

Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week, we’ll have alleged Ron Jeremy victim, Lianne Young as our special guest on our 150th episode. At Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts on ASB Cash.

Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us, you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up.

We’ve also added an event section to our website at adultsitebroker.com.

Now you can get information on B2B events on our website, as well as special discounts reserved for our clients. Go to adult site broker.com for more details.

Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is four years old. They’re currently the only free tube providing premium BDSM videos, and it’s been reduced in price.

They regularly add user request and user provided content after moderation. The owner started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it, and he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular on Reddit and Business Sword. The owner has decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry. The site’s visitors come back again and again due to its uniqueness. They have over 13,000 premium videos, and most of them are 30 minutes or longer.

With more videos and categories, the site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There’s no advertising being done for the site. All of the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic now only $235,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Leanne Young. Leanne, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 44s): You are most welcome.

Speaker 1 (2m 46s): Now, Leanne is one of the UK’s leading advisors on adult entertainment, sex and relationships. She started her mainstream career in 2002, appearing on shows such as the Jeremy Kyle Show, the Tricia Goddard Show, how to Have Sex After Marriage, and several other mainstream productions as a sex and relationships advisor and porn industry expert. She’s additionally known for covering events such as avn, ex Biz Prowler Awards, and other adult events around a variety of lifestyles and the adult industries.

Leanne had an illustrious career as an adult actress in the US after being recruited to the country from her Native England. She was known as the porn queen of the uk. During her time in America, she was allegedly attacked by Ron Jeremy at a nightclub party in West Hollywood. In 2000, she waived her rights to staying anonymous and was one of the 20 women who have accused Jeremy of rape and sexual assault. She was asked by the L A P D to come to LA and she gave evidence to a grand jury.

Recently, of course, Jeremy has been deemed unable to stand trial because of dementia, and now he’s being committed to a mental institution. After her ordeal, Leanne became a counselor helping others who have suffered sexual violence, working a lot with sex workers worldwide. Leanne, first of all, I am just so sorry about of all the horrible things you’ve had to experience due to this monster. Now I’ve seen you quoted on many occasions about the pain this experience has brought back for you.

What did you go through having to testify to the grand jury?

Speaker 2 (4m 30s): Well, Bruce, it’s been one hell of a journey. Well, first of all, you know, I, I was contacted by the lap D after I had spoken, spoken to the LA Times, right? And from that moment, you, you know, they, they interviewed me and then they asked me about what happened. I told them, they asked if there was witnesses. I said, yes. They went and, you know, interviewed those witnesses. And about three weeks later they contacted me and said he’d been formally charged with my rape. And for me, it, that was, you know, your whole world turns upside down.

It’s something you just don’t expect, right? And then of course we had covid, but I still had to travel in person to give evidence at the grand jury. And now I’ve never covered a grand jury before. So I’d gone through a lot of stress with this change in my whole life. And then I’m flown by the American government and under protection from the American government. And when I say protection, I was under 24-hour protection from the minute I got on that flight until the minute I left the usa it was wow, very horrendous.

I sleeping in the same hotel as you next door changing shift. And there’s nothing it can mentally, mentally impair you. For a grand jury mean that is, it was like 20 plus jurors asking you very intimate questions. And you know, you’re, I mean, as you know, you know, in England we pronounce words very differently to the US and I was getting very, I was getting told, please speak yes or no, not yet. But it was very, very, very traumatic experience because thought it was, I did not know what to expect.

I was under a lot of nervous tension. I was, you know, I’d had no sleep. I was tired. Sure. And, you know, to be taken to the courtroom in the morning, very fortunate, they did have a, like a therapy dog, and the dog really calms you down. So that was good.

Speaker 1 (6m 25s): Oh, that’s good.

Speaker 2 (6m 26s): Yeah, that was really good. And we were put in a private room away from everybody else, but actually going into the courtroom is so intimidating and daunting, and it was the most traumatic experiences I’ve ever gone through. You know, they had Ron’s picture on the screen while asking me questions, and it’s almost like you are, you’re reliving everything all over again. And I managed to get through the questions, and then afterwards they’re allowed to ask you to elaborate on many questions, which I did.

I was so glad. I mean, I, I, I absolutely broke down and sobbed my heart the minute I walked out of the actual jury room.

Speaker 1 (7m 5s): I’m sure

Speaker 2 (7m 6s): It was absolutely horrendous. And you’re not allowed to speak to anybody, so to say, it was one of the most overwhelming experiences I’ve had in my life, would not be underestimating it.

Speaker 1 (7m 17s): And you couldn’t talk to anybody, so you really couldn’t pour your heart out, which has gotta be the worst part.

Speaker 2 (7m 24s): Yeah. I mean, I’m, you know, it, for the whole couple of years I wasn’t allowed to talk to anybody. I was having therapy via the Met Police, another outreach department. It said, you can’t go through this without talking to anybody, so we’re giving you a counselor. Well, that’s good. That, yeah, that really, really helped me because I was having nightmares and it’s in your head every single day. Yeah. You’re reliving that encounter and that assault every single minute. And yeah, it completely got the better of me at one stage.

Speaker 1 (7m 55s): Oh, I’m sure. So when he was deemed unfit to stand trial, what was your reaction?

Speaker 2 (8m 3s): I was absolutely gutted because obviously we’d been pulled in to give evidence and, you know, been really put through the mill. And then to be told that he wasn’t fit to stand trial with an absolute Oh my stomach. It it, if it had been punched so hard. Yeah. And when the public get to hear something, we hear about it before it goes public. So again, we act to suffer in silence. And I went through several emotions. I was really angry because if they knew when they arrested him that there may be some mental condition, why drag us through that before finding out if he had that’s capacity.

You know, to have a victim completely have to relive their experience for a couple of years. Mine, because he kept delay in the trial and using every different excuse, you know? Yes, yes. There is. So at one stage I do feel that, that he was mentally capa capable of standing trial and he delayed that. And I think that it was almost like he had the upper hand again. And it was devastating. Absolutely devastating.

Speaker 1 (9m 9s): And I’m sure all the delays also had to be difficult.

Speaker 2 (9m 13s): Oh my God. From delay to delay, just, you know, for the, for a couple of days beforehand waiting to find out you don’t sleep and it’s in your brain 24 7 and you can’t talk to anybody. And yeah. So you, it’s almost like being a victim all over again, again and again and again and you know, and you’ve got a read online, other people’s opinions, which Sure. It’s very, you know, so you’re being attacked online. I’ve had inbox messages attacking me online. Nice. It, it, yeah.

People, they’re really sick. And it’s like, I’m, I’m one of those people that I care more about my character than my reputation. If people have a bad image of me because I’ve come forward, then I’m really don’t care. Welcome. Pretty much in, in flight with, yeah. Fuck ’em.

Speaker 1 (9m 58s): Yeah. And I remember the delays and it got to the point where, not for you, but it got to the point for a lot of people where it almost became a joke. Like, what’s the delay gonna be about this time? You know,

Speaker 2 (10m 12s): It was, it was more like a, it became a circus act. That’s how it felt. And it kind of felt that I was just, oh, I mean, it’s hard to put into words. Yeah. We, I felt like a porn in their game in the end, because we kept getting delayed and delayed and delayed. And, and I just, you know, it, it’s hard to go through. A case is a few years old and, and many people say, oh, why didn’t she come forward 20 years ago? And we would have, but we would, we were convinced that we would not be listened to. And we were told that nobody would listen to us. And that he had, you know, he had pleas on the inside.

And so, you know, nobody was gonna believe us because we had done adult movies ourselves. So in a way it was almost like we got told we deserved it.

Speaker 1 (10m 52s): So Jeremy’s like the Harvey Weinstein of porn, they’re both horrible creatures. But unfortunately Jeremy hasn’t gotten the wrath of a law like Weinstein has. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (11m 8s): Oh, you know, I think they left it way too late. Mean everybody knows that Ron’s been poured in by the police over many decades on different encounters. And I just think that because he was a household name, whereas Weinstein was, you know, he was somewhat of a household name, but behind the camera, whereas Jeremy was in the camera, he, he was popular, he was a comic, he could laugh about himself and he let other people laugh about him. And I think, and I think that this was the greatest performance of his life, delay in delay in this case, and making out that he was innocent.

And I just, I think that it just got dragged along for so long that he was an un unable to stand trial. Yeah. Whether we find out whether this is his, his most famous acting role, or whether he will be proved to be totally unfit. Yeah. We have, we have. Cause the court case doesn’t end for us because no, every, every f month he’s gonna be assessed and then we get told the outcome. So for us, we literally

Speaker 1 (12m 7s): Yeah. Never ends.

Speaker 2 (12m 8s): It never ends for us. And I think, you know, with the Weinstein case, he was so prolific in Hollywood as a mainstream star that they had to do something right. And they had to do it quick. Yeah. And with the Ron case, they, you know, sometimes I think to myself, it’s so unfair that Vaughn has not had the same treatment as Weinstein, because he should have. Yeah. You know, he is put in a mental hospital and I hope that is just like one flew away with a cookie nest. And I do hope.

Speaker 1 (12m 37s): Exactly, exactly. I hope he gets, I hope he gets the equivalent of Nurse Ratchet.

Speaker 2 (12m 43s): Absolutely. So do I. Oh, worse. Oh, am we? And there’s already been articles saying that he’s been abusing nurses. Well, he is in hospital, been, this is his character.

Speaker 1 (12m 53s): Me. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (12m 53s): Unfortunately, his character was allowed to get away with too much. And I, yep. There, there is no reason why he got treated differently. I think it was just timing.

Speaker 1 (13m 3s): Well, I got to meet him only once. And disgusting human being. That’s all I could say. I was kind of disgusted at the time. I was just like, anyway. Yeah, it’s disgusting. Yeah, very much so. So talk about, if you would, the incident itself, I’m going to assume you had worked with a guy before. Can you talk about what ha about what happened that night?

Speaker 2 (13m 27s): Yes. I’m more than happy to, I will make something clear. First. I have never worked with Ron Jeremy. Okay. There was free things. I followed Free Wars, I followed for myself in pornography. Never worked with anybody underage, never worked with animals and never worked with Ron Jerry. And that was my free pointers. Well,

Speaker 1 (13m 48s): The two, the last two, the last two were kind of one and the same, wouldn’t you say? Animals and

Speaker 2 (13m 52s): Ab Yeah, animals and one definitely the, oh gosh, they, they do, they make, it makes me sick. Yeah. So, so for me, he had tried to approach me in that in a rainbow room sometimes before, and invited me to a party and I made my excuses to get out. And then he said, oh, he’d love me to work for his company. And I never did. And I, I, I felt that on that first instance, I’d met him in the rainbow room that got introduced to him that he was unto towards. And I’d hear rumor about him. So I was very good at looking after my own safety.

However, there was a Halloween event at the House of Blues. And, you know, there was a space specifically for the adult staff, the other own private area. And I literally had my back turned. I had not seen Ron in that room before then. I’d had my backs turned, I was stood there with Alana Evans and a former housemate. And I was pushed over the table from behind out of complete, out of nowhere. And I was pushed onto the table and his penis was already erect. He put it in me and I fought myself off.

He had literally come out from a dark place with intention to do what he did.

Speaker 1 (15m 1s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (15m 2s): Wow. And when you are in that situation, it was almost like your automatic reaction is to fight. Yeah. And I slapped him as I managed to fight him off, I slipped, slapped him around the face and I said, how fucking dare you? And he had no expression and he just disappeared into the dark room again. And people around me, you know, there were, there were many people who saw it. Yeah. And it was only Ilana Evans who really said she could see the state of me. Cuz I was, I was screaming. And then I started crying and she goes, come on, we need to get outside.

Let’s go and have a stick around.

Speaker 1 (15m 34s): It doesn’t surprise me that it was Lana. I, I finally met her at the la ex biz by the way.

Speaker 2 (15m 40s): Oh, brilliant.

Speaker 1 (15m 41s): Very nice. She’s very, she’s very, very nice trying to get her, trying to get her on this, on this program. She said she would. So you might wanna put in a good word

Speaker 2 (15m 51s): Of Of course I will. I mean, that girl’s been a complete ally for me. She also testified for me in the court case. Good. So sh she had to give evidence of the grand jury as well. And

Speaker 1 (16m 2s): Yeah. So I’m sorry you were telling the, you were, you were telling the story? No,

Speaker 2 (16m 5s): It, it’s co you know, in, you know, I said to Alana at the time and a few ever, I said, you know, what do I do? There goes, well there’s no point going to the police cuz he has insider police officer friends and nobody would believe you because you’d done porn in it. And, and number three, you’re not American, you’re English. So they really won’t care. And we were made to feel that we were worthless, that we could have report it.

Speaker 1 (16m 27s): Wonderful.

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): Yeah. It was almost like, well that’s Ron, that’s how you accept him. And no, I don’t accept that behavior. He should have been stopped many, many, many years ago.

Speaker 1 (16m 36s): Yeah. And unfortunately he’s still not officially stopped,

Speaker 2 (16m 40s): So. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (16m 42s): He was famous for sexually abusing and violating women on set for a very long time. Did you ever experience any of that in those days from any other male performer?

Speaker 2 (16m 56s): Yes. There was many times that I was on set and there was girls supposed to be doing solo shoots and then the director would be trying saying, oh, can I just put my hand there? Can I put my hand there? And these girls were really young and new to the industry. And I’d be like, no, he’d not allowed to. You’re doing a solo set. Do not let him. Right. Yeah. And they used to get mad at me and I’m like, no, sorry, you’ve booked the girl for a solo set. She’s 18 years old, she’s new and you are overstepping the mark. And that’s abuse. Yeah. Yeah. And there was people in the UK as well that would say, say to myself when I was very new and naive, oh, please do this shoot for me.

And although I don’t pay you up front, you’ll get profits of the share and stuff. It’s a load of crap. A load of crap. I, I had to learn the hard way, but I have witnessed so much abuse going on set when somebody said no. And then the performers carried on and there’s a lot of coercion on set because there was many times that I was booked out by a former agent in the UK to do just a basic boy girl set and you get to set. And they were like, oh no, it’s an anal set. And I’m like, well, I don’t do that. And they’d be like, they’d be like, well you’re gonna have to cover water costs this set if you’re not gonna do that cuz we booked you for this.

And you know, there it was terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. And you were, we were persuaded.

Speaker 1 (18m 16s): So did, so I mean, did you do it or did you just leave

Speaker 2 (18m 19s): On a couple occasions I’d done it because I felt, I was told if I did, if I didn’t do it, I would never bother work in the industry again. I was naive. I believed them. I absolutely believed them. And looking back now, you know, at the time I was like, oh my God, you know, I’m trying to do this to make a name for myself and Sure. You know, the financial awards and I got coerced into doing stuff that I really didn’t want to Completely. It was, it’s really embarrassing to actually say that now, but it happens and it is always happening and it’s not stopping.

Speaker 1 (18m 53s): Hmm, absolutely. And it’s interesting that you’re, you’re such good friends with Atlanta because she’s right there fighting for performers rights and it’s, it’s, it’s quite unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (19m 6s): Absolutely mean the stuff that, you know, I’m a counselor for the industry, so I get to hear a lot of stuff that goes on. Sure. I’ll tell you what’s not well known in the industry is what is consent, what is coercion, what is the boundaries? And they need to be discussed more because there’s a lot of people entering in this industry and not understanding what sexual abuse is. I mean, people seem to think to be raped, you have to be raped by a penis, by a man held down against your will. That’s not the case. A man could, you could be digitally raped.

Yep. You could. Yeah. And you could be, you can have penetrated rape or, or rape and people, there more education needs to be done inside the industry and out.

Speaker 1 (19m 48s): Yeah. It’s unfortunately, it’s still a, a societal problem that women really don’t know their rights and they don’t know what to do and where to turn. And in the industry, I think that Atlanta’s organization’s doing a really good job of promoting themselves and letting people know that, hey, you don’t have to take this and that’s the way it should be Since, since Me Too and since Ron Jeremy, which I think goes along with me too.

That certainly that was the adult’s answer to me too. Adult industry’s answer to me too. It’s, it’s a whole new ball game. At least it should be.

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): Well absolutely mean in two Franks and 18 was when the real me too movement of the Edo industry started. And, and it’s still continuing and I think more noise needs to be made. Yeah. From credit. And I, and I do believe that porn companies, you know, should give out some advice directly to performers. And I think that they need to, they need to take some more responsibility because stuff is still happening on set. Yeah. And Alan, Alan is fam fabulous raising her voice, you know, getting people to hear it.

And I stand by Alana and APAC and I always will. We need more unions like that around the world.

Speaker 1 (21m 5s): Oh we do. We need more support for, for APAC as well. I did an interview recently with Todd Spates of Yanks Cash and it was interesting because what they were doing 20 years ago in terms of exactly what is expected of the scene, putting it on paper and having the model sign it and the, and the producer sign it. What’s consent? You know, what are you consenting to? They started that 20 years ago.

And now because of Ron, Jeremy and because of other things that have happened, it’s really becoming the industry norm to have that kind of thing. And I think that’s fantastic.

Speaker 2 (21m 47s): It is. I mean, on the APAC website they have an actual consent form of what you will we what? And it’s called the Bens list. And it’s what you will and will not do. And every performer should be filling that in and every producer should be offering that form to actors and actresses. There’s Yeah. You know, in any job you go to, you have to follow policy and procedures Yep. And guidelines. And there’s no reason for the porn industry not to have their own, and it needs to be brought into the workplace.

Speaker 1 (22m 17s): Yeah. And I mean, every website has terms and conditions. Well, they need to have that for their performers.

Speaker 2 (22m 23s): Absolutely. There’s, there’s just because it’s, you know, working for another company, they have to understand it, that company still have the duty of care to the performer. And they have, they should be having liability insurance because one thing I do know is that many porn producers do not have insurance.

Speaker 1 (22m 41s): Oh, sure.

Speaker 2 (22m 42s): And that needs to change because individuals are working as self-employed in this industry, are also not getting their self covered with public liability. And they should

Speaker 1 (22m 52s): Oh yeah, definitely. And health insurance.

Speaker 2 (22m 55s): And health insurance, absolutely. And what people don’t understand is under that public liability, it will also cover you for legal and that will help you bring a case against somebody if something happens. Right.

Speaker 1 (23m 7s): Because in the United States, unlike, you know, grape Britain, there is no national healthcare. And Well, I’m 65 now, so I get it, but that’s because I’m old.

Speaker 2 (23m 20s): I don’t think 65 is old.

Speaker 1 (23m 22s): No, I don’t either, but some days don’t. A don’t don’t tell me that. Anyway. So do you believe there are other Ron Jeremy’s out there who should be brought to justice?

Speaker 2 (23m 35s): Absolutely. There are loaves out there. You know, there’s, there’s companies like legal porno in the, in Europe. I have had to pick up the pieces of the abuse that one girl suffered so bad that she, she really had to have serious medical attention and there was no responsibility. So do I think that companies or individuals, yes. They aha. Are Ron Jeremy still out there getting away with everything and ones that take their character outside of the work set and they, they, unfortunately, what has happened is that some people stay in character for so long, it becomes their normal.

Speaker 1 (24m 17s): Yeah. It’s kinda like N F L players who their job is to commit violence on the field. And unfortunately a lot of those guys stay in their professional character in their personal lives. I just read today about another N F L player who is being faced with an abuse charge. Actually it wasn’t a, an abuse charge against a woman. I think it was just a number of players in Las Vegas who beat up some people.

And it’s really the same thing in porn, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (24m 50s): Absolutely. Without a shadow of a doubt. It is exactly the same thing. Sure. And it needs to, it needs to stop and it needs to stop fast. Personally, I’m, I’m in a position where I think the whole industry needs to be cleaned up. It really does. And I mean it, the thing is with it in England is a, there is no legal requirement to do many things, which, you know, you’re not required, it’s not treated as a professional workplace, therefore it’s hard to monitor.

Speaker 1 (25m 21s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 21s): You know, I know people that were doing porn at 17 years old and the producers knew they were 17 years old.

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): Oh, that’s terrible.

Speaker 2 (25m 28s): Yeah. And so, so I, I am total belief that there needs to be some structure put around people that participate and produce pornography.

Speaker 1 (25m 37s): Well, if you do that in the states and you get caught, you’re in big trouble.

Speaker 2 (25m 41s): Oh my God. Absolutely. I mean, you know, you’ve had your

Speaker 1 (25m 44s): As it should be.

Speaker 2 (25m 45s): Yeah. And, and absolutely. I mean, I’m, I’m in, I’m I’m inclined to say the age limit does need to be raised.

Speaker 1 (25m 52s): Yeah. I think it, I think I agree with you and I was just thinking about that, that in adult, we probably should be looking at 21 because just the age of consent should not necessarily be the, the age that they should be able to shoot in adult

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): Completely. And the reason why that is, is they’re not mature enough and their brains aren’t developed enough to understand the long-term implications. Yeah. And while the brain is still developing, acting on certain situations can leave you with feelings of shame, guilt, depression, anxiety. And I think that, I think the age should be up to 21.

Speaker 1 (26m 30s): It makes perfect sense. It really does. It, it certainly does. So the only possible good news I can think of out of the entire run Jeremy’s story is that porn us finally started to clean up its act on set. Now, certainly not all male performers, as you just alluded to, did the things he did, but there are no doubt a decent amount of it going on besides with Jeremy. I mean, how does that make you feel?

Speaker 2 (26m 55s): You know, I mean, there is some relief that things are getting done and, but I, there’s still such a long way to go because you’ve also got some guys from the industry who seem to think that, you know, if it’s not broken, don’t fix it. But this industry’s not broken for decades. There’s many things, it’s broken about the industry and yes, there are some things and some people contributing to helping the porn industry clean up exacts. But there is such a long way to go and it needs to be a participation of all people involved.

Speaker 1 (27m 28s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27m 29s): Cause this, it’s gonna keep going on, otherwise there’s some

Speaker 1 (27m 32s): Yeah. Nothing will change. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27m 33s): Nothing will change. And unfortunately old habits die hard or they don’t die at all.

Speaker 1 (27m 39s): Yeah, exactly. Because what will happen is one generation, a performer will pass these habits down to the next generation of performer and the bad actors, quote unquote, will still be there.

Speaker 2 (27m 53s): Yeah. I mean, there’s so many things that need to be cleaned up. And it’s not just on the industry. I mean our, I’ll mention our national health service in the UK now, for people to get their STI certificates to be able to participate in pornography, they’re getting them free of charge from our National health service. Which to which to me is crazy because, you know, let’s be realistic. Not everybody in porn pays taxing national insurance and, and public health money should be used for public health money. Not, not for your profession. Every other person that, you know, it’s required to be self-employed, have to have their own insurance.

But in pornography they don’t. But they want to get treated the same. You know, if you want to have a health check to take part in your employment, don’t rely on it to be free. You have to invest in yourself just like insurance. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 41s): No, absolutely. There just need to be, I mean, insurance is something that there’s not an a lot of, but unfortunately I go to the trade shows and I don’t see insurance people there. And boy, I think it’s an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (28m 55s): I think it’s a big opportunity. I mean, I’m, I’m a counselor and I have to have insurance to be able to counsel people and we have to have like a 10 million public liability stuff. And that’s just talking to somebody. So if you’re actually having sex with somebody, get some public liability insurance if it’s for work.

Speaker 1 (29m 10s): Yeah,

Speaker 2 (29m 10s): Absolutely. So that, so that’s my belief is, you know, if you decide to take on this work, be aware of the consequences. Right. You know, there, there are short-term rewards, financially you’ll be popular. You, you know, you get to sexually experiment, but also you have to think about the long term implications and you need to be covered.

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): No, you absolutely, you do. You absolutely do. So

Speaker 2 (29m 34s): Yeah,

Speaker 1 (29m 34s): You work with performers as a counselor in the uk what kinds of challenges do you run into on a daily basis?

Speaker 2 (29m 42s): Oh my God. The backstabbing of the industry. There’s a lot of that going on. It is unbelief for lack of pay because some comp, some people have worked for, you know, for such companies and then they don’t get paid. I mean, in my day, we won’t work unless a check was on the table. Good. You know, that’s what we’ve done. But a lot of these performers, yeah, they’re, they’re getting, they’re worried so much about their reputation and not their character. Now, for me, you’ve never put your reputation before your character because why worry about what other people say and not worry about what you think of yourself.

And this is a lot of stuff I cover on quite a lot on actually a daily basis as I have to reassure performers. It, it doesn’t matter what other people think of them, it’s about how they are mentally themselves and look at themselves. Because if you worry about your reputation and not your character, your, your, it’s gonna be a dark journey.

Speaker 1 (30m 36s): I, I understand. Definitely. So what changes do you think the adult industry still needs to make when it comes to how performers are treated?

Speaker 2 (30m 46s): Well? Treated by who? People in the industry or people outside the industry? Both. Okay. So with the industry that, you know, they are just not another byproduct to use as you wish. So PR producers should be laying out the pros and cons of taking on such a job. And I think, again, there’s needs to be more education on reputation versus character. Yes. And I think that the, those, you know, I’m always available to adult performers and any kind of sex worker that feel that they are losing their identity within the porn industry.

And apac and apac, you know, they inform models that they are there to help them. And we are. And sometimes it is about, you know, hearing some home truths that people don’t like, but you have to hear them. And I’ve, what happens to a lot of people in pornography is they think the whole world’s against them, but they’re not. And that’s because people within the industry say, oh, well, once you’ve done porn, you’ll never be good at anything else. Or once you’ve done porn, other people are gonna judge you. There’s no building people up in the industry. It’s only knocking ’em down.

And that I, I’m seeing that happen way too often.

Speaker 1 (31m 53s): I haven’t heard that, but it’s, I I’m sure you’re facing it, so in your work. Oh

Speaker 2 (31m 58s): Yeah. And, and that totally needs to change. I mean, I, I just bit the bullet and wasn’t worried about my reputation and I knew that I could build on my character, become educated and actually go into mainstream tv, which I did very well. Yeah. I’ve now, you know, written an education program on the mist and reality of porn and you know, I’m given that massive talk, oh, Monday afternoon, but I go through it today. Things need to be done from each side. Now if you’re in the porn industry, you seem to think you’re being attacked all the time. That’s not, that’s not the case. Now with the two age verification, it was online that was not directed just at the porn industry that was directed at all over 18 services like buying alcohol online.

Right. Or getting over 18, 18 movies. It may not be porn related buying online games. It wasn’t just against porn industry. So they’ve got to stop looking at theirselves to

Speaker 1 (32m 47s): Speak. Well, and I will tell you one thing in the us, the Republicans in Congress and, and the senator definitely going after porn, that is the target.

Speaker 2 (32m 56s): Yeah. I mean I know that in the US it’s much different in, in England, they can’t actually print that in unless they target all over 18 markets. Got it. And, and they have to treat it fairly, they can’t be seen to victimizing one particular industry. But I also think that in England, licensing should be brought in. Whereas if you’re gonna produce pornography, you should have to have a license. You know, in America strippers need a license to strip. And then also that, you know, the tax information office have that as well. And then it was seen be seen as more of an legitimate co industry.

That’s

Speaker 1 (33m 29s): True. So I haven’t heard of any country that does that really.

Speaker 2 (33m 32s): No, they don’t. And I, and I, you know, in America, you guys, you know, if you wanna be a stripper, you need a license. In Australia, if you work in a bar, you need to have a license. Interesting. And so I think that anything that is entertaining anything of the adult industry, then that needs to be considered.

Speaker 1 (33m 50s): Yeah. But I mean there’s no doubt about it that the religious right is after the adult industry and especially in the United States. It’s, it’s just really bad.

Speaker 2 (34m 3s): Well, you know, it’s, to be honest with you, it’s not much different in the uk. There are certain people that want to go after the industry and as other ones are like, look, okay, it’s, it’s, it’s affecting children and it’s affecting their reality of what sex is and it’s affecting their relationships. That’s all very true. But parents need to be educated about pornography and how to discuss it with their children. Just the same they do with alcohol, smoking and accessing violent movies, et cetera. You know, it a cinema to be to watch an 18 film, they’re gonna ask you for Id, you know, it’s part of the over 18 adult.

Speaker 1 (34m 37s): I mean, I have to tell you, I have to tell you, I have always been in favor of age verification. However, the way that it’s being put out by the right wing in the United States is meant to harm us, not necessarily to verify people’s ages. So it’s really our fault. If we had self-police and come up with our own age verification 10, 15 years ago, like we should have 20 years ago, even then they would have nothing to say.

Absolutely. But unfortunately we did not. So there’s also self-regulation that should be done. But the problem is that the companies, they can’t agree on anything. So that’s the biggest, a

Speaker 2 (35m 22s): Absolutely biggest issue. And when you mentioned self-regulation to some people that are either still in the industry or have been, they’re like, oh well we manage ourself. And I’m like, well actually you proved you don’t.

Speaker 1 (35m 33s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 34s): Well, you know, yeah. It’s proven. And you know, know, people seem to think that the police are against pornography. No they’re not. No. They’re against trafficking and people forced into it, but they’re not against sex work. And I work beside

Speaker 1 (35m 46s): The police. But I mean, but trafficking into pornography is largely a myth.

Speaker 2 (35m 53s): It’s totally a myth. Absolutely. And there’s no such thing as child pornography because no child can consent to taking part in a purpose of making a movie forever. Adults entertainment. Right. And if you look at an explanation for pornography is too consenting adults. Right. Making pornography for the purpose of entertainment for others. Now a child, a child can’t consent to that. So there is no such thing is child pornography.

Speaker 1 (36m 18s): That’s a very good point. So since you brought this up, I was gonna ask you about it later. You wrote an education program on the myths and reality of porn, which you’re about to present. Tell us about it.

Speaker 2 (36m 32s): Oh my god. So it’s called the Ardent Project. So tap and it’s about educating not only workplaces because there’s a massive rise in people using pornography at work and abuse within like the NHS for one. That’s the one, that’s the one. It was a violence prevent sexual violence prevention team that asked me to write it. And it does, it talks about the mis, it talks about the myth and the bus because there’s a lot of myth about pornography and people don’t cover the reality of pornography. People think everybody’s abused in pornography.

They’re not, everybody thinks a porn performer acts like that in real life. They don’t. Of

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): Course.

Speaker 2 (37m 9s): And the viewers need to start understanding that what you see in pornography is not reality. It’s a performance. No, it’s, it’s a, for the purpose of entertainment, nobody goes around shooting. Oh my God. I can’t say. Do you

Speaker 1 (37m 20s): Think, yeah. Do you think what you see in Hollywood is real?

Speaker 2 (37m 24s): No. I mean, but some people do. You know,

Speaker 1 (37m 27s): Not not very smart people.

Speaker 2 (37m 29s): Yeah. Well I actually think that on a parent’s evening in all scores, parents should be invited to an education program such as what I’ve written on the list and reality and pornography and how to chat to your children. Absolutely. Because, because what’s happening is parents are not chatting to their children then. But they’re allowing their children to have unsupervised access on a computer. Yeah. Looking up, looking up materials. Right. Which is not, not for their eyes. Yeah. And the par, the parental responsibility is not there. And I think it’s about time that parents actually took on more responsibility rather than

Speaker 1 (38m 3s): Leaving that it’s the parents’ responsibility. If you have children that are under 18, you are responsible for the media that they consume and

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): Absolutely

Speaker 1 (38m 15s): Not the kids. Okay. Yes. If they can access porn on their phone, that’s your fault. If they can access porn on their laptop, that’s your fault.

Speaker 2 (38m 24s): Another point I make is that every parent that has a teacher in school, if they look at, look at the contract with that school, the school, the school is legally responsible for their child between their school opening hours. And the parents don’t really have much say because they will get fined if their child’s not there. Right now I actually sued my son’s school because he got attacked at school and they, everybody was like, how did you do that? I said, cuz they had a legal requirement to protect my son. Yeah. So, you know, if, if any of this stuff and which it is happening in scores where people are sharing indecent images, then the score responsible.

So parents need to start suing the scores if it’s happening during school hours.

Speaker 1 (39m 7s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (39m 8s): And parents should be taking more responsibility on the education of their children. Because I don’t believe that children should be educated in four length in schools about, you know, about pornography. Because I believe that that probably is an overload of information because in schools they need to learn about healthy relationships, coercion and control. Yeah. Now those, those subject matters are covered in my education program. And we do touch on pornography, but it’s more, I actually do feel that parents need to take more of a situation hold of it.

And so does school teachers, especially the ones teaching sex education and the counselors within schools. So the program isn’t directly aimed at me going to into schools and teaching school childrens, because I don’t think that’s the answer. I think the answer is for the adults in charge and offering a duty of care to those children to take this on board. Yes, absolutely. But I also do, I also do think just like Hollywood movies, there is a statement on the front of that movie that if you copy this, it’s an infringement. Right. And that this movie is intended for over eighteens only for the purpose, for the purpose of entertainment.

Now either porn actresses that are in the movie or porn producers need to start adding that to the online content. Cause that is where children are accessing adult material.

Speaker 1 (40m 28s): Yeah. They’re getting it free on, on tube sites for sure. Can people see this presentation online?

Speaker 2 (40m 34s): Not yet because it is been commissioned by the nhs. So as soon as it will be, I will let you know.

Speaker 1 (40m 40s): Okay, sounds good. So with the advent of only fans type sites, the industry has done nothing but grow. And gosh, there’s creators making seven figures a month for God’s sakes. Do you ever sit there and think maybe you were born too soon.

Speaker 2 (40m 57s): Never did. You know what? Absolutely. We, we have to remember that with the likes of only fans, there are, they have got millions and millions of members Yeah. That have to work twen 24 hours a day to make that kind of money. They lose their identity when they stay in character for that lock. Interesting. And we also got to remember it’s only 0.0, probably 1% making that type of money.

Speaker 1 (41m 20s): Oh, I know, I know. It’s, it’s small, but, but as far as six figures, it’s a lot.

Speaker 2 (41m 26s): Yeah, it is a lot. But also, you know, is it worth, you know, I mean obviously I know the whole journey of doing this kind of work and then having to, you know, have relationships after. Right. I don’t think I was born too soon actually. I actually was able to participate in pornography when it was real pornography. It was like the golden era. It was fantastic. But, but now the amount of competition and the amount of workload for only fans, you need to be qualified in internet, national marketing, business, accounting, sales, everything.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so it’s not just a case of being a model or a performer anymore. Right. You have to be an all round educated business person to be able to make money in that industry. The competition is enough to send anybody under. You’re right. So, no, I, you’re right. I, I participated in the industry when it was fun.

Speaker 1 (42m 18s): Okay. So you recently hit a million engagements on Twitter. First of all, I’m jealous. You gotta be excited about that.

Speaker 2 (42m 28s): Oh my god. You know, I was so, I do, you know what, I was actually in shock. I think I was, I was on vacation in Australia at the time because I took my weight to Australia and somebody sent me a test going, you’ve just gone viral on Twitter. And I said, what? And he goes, yeah, you better get on there. I could not believe it. I was like, Jesus shit. And then all of a sudden I’m being contacted from news people all over the world and I was like, look, I’m on vacation. I can’t be bothered to give interviews.

Speaker 1 (42m 55s): That’s funny.

Speaker 2 (42m 57s): And between me and you, I didn’t even read any of the comments either. So it, it was an absolute fluke, but oh my god. Right. It was, you know, I I can actually say I’ve, I’ve been a millionaire for one time in my life.

Speaker 1 (43m 10s): Well, you’re pretty damn wellknown around the world. It might not be for necessarily what you want it to be, but a lot of people know who you are at this point. And you know, I think that if nothing else, I would say that your courage in taking on that monster is definitely part of it.

Speaker 2 (43m 35s): Oh, well thank you. I I hope it inspires and helps other people. I really do

Speaker 1 (43m 39s): Because I’m sure it’ll,

Speaker 2 (43m 41s): Yeah. I mean, it’s not an easy thing to go through. No, but

Speaker 1 (43m 45s): For it inspired me, I gotta tell you.

Speaker 2 (43m 48s): But I, I’ll tell you, I’m kind of, you know, I’ve, I’ve had, I took a seven week vacation, I’ve come back with a completely different attitude forward focused. And I needed that because, you know Yeah. When you are, when people are going through something like this, you are in a bubble. You’re not allowed to talk to anybody. Yeah. But there is, there is light at the end of the tunnel and I will not be silenced anymore. Good for you. Never. And I’ll support anybody else that wants to speak up

Speaker 1 (44m 13s): As you should. So the last time we talked, we talked about some books you were writing. How are those coming along?

Speaker 2 (44m 19s): They are coming along really nice. Thank you. I’m actually in a meeting with a script writer next week. I’m, I’m getting approached by a lot of people to write advice staff and write, write several books. And I, they, they wanna turn my life into the big screen. Wow. You know, they’re calling me the Aaron Bov of pornography.

Speaker 1 (44m 38s): Holy shit. That’s crazy.

Speaker 2 (44m 40s): Yeah, I’m a little bit, I’m very lucky that I’m able to keep my feet family on the ground. Don’t will

Speaker 1 (44m 44s): You still, will you, will you still talk to me after the movies released?

Speaker 2 (44m 48s): Oh, of course I will. You

Speaker 1 (44m 49s): You can come,

Speaker 2 (44m 50s): You can come to the red carpet in the previewing.

Speaker 1 (44m 53s): Oh, I’ll be there.

Speaker 2 (44m 54s): Yeah. I mean, for me, I’ve mean, I, I would never change who I am. I’m, I keep my feet on the ground. You know, you’re most like, I’m still gonna be in my pajamas by about 6:00 PM and I’m, you know, I’ve had my taste of Hollywood, I’ve had my taste of international like fame and it was exhausting. And I

Speaker 1 (45m 13s): Bet,

Speaker 2 (45m 13s): I mean, this time RH is a totally different attitude towards it. You know, I’m not hungry for fame, it’s there, but I will use it as an educational chore. Well, I enjoy it. Absolutely. Yes. It would be wrong to do something you don’t enjoy. No. So yes, I I will enjoy every, every bit of it. But,

Speaker 1 (45m 29s): Or or what you or what you don’t believe in

Speaker 2 (45m 32s): Abso I would never do anything. I didn’t believe in God. No. But I’ve, I think there is time for a female version of Boogie Knight. And I do believe there is a need for a more, you know, the Aaron Brockovich of porn big time needs to be done big time. Absolutely needs to be done. Mean you, I went to see the premiere at the film Festival of the Me Too movement by, you know, covering the Weinstein case. I wasn’t that impressed cuz it didn’t actually give a input really. So I’m very looking forward to sitting down with, I’ve got several script writers to sit down with and actually go through stuff.

Yeah. I’m,

Speaker 1 (46m 6s): That’s way cool. I wish you well with it, but I know, like everything else, it’ll be good. I know it’s gonna be very good. So all I ask is you keep me posted and, and let me know what’s going on with these, these projects.

Speaker 2 (46m 19s): Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I’m, I’m happy to talk anytime. You’re a great interviewer. Thank you. And, and your questions are good.

Speaker 1 (46m 26s): Well thank you very much. I do appreciate it. Well, Leanne, on that note, I’d like to thank you for being back with us again today on Adult Side Broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon. Like you said.

Speaker 2 (46m 39s): I hope so too. So remember to send me a link, cause I’ll put it out on my, put it out on my feeds as

Speaker 1 (46m 44s): Well. And you hear Bernie saying goodbye too.

Speaker 2 (46m 46s): I do. Go say goodbye, Bernie.

Speaker 1 (46m 49s): I’ll do that. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about converting traffic and improving the user experience. Make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer isn’t good, you won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or to get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you’re selling something, make buying easy. Show them an easy way to buy and then leave.

Help ’em by making suggestions on what to buy. amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this if you can. Don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action that you’d like them to take.

It’s not that hard. Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process like a human being. Whatever you do, don’t turn the process over to your designer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is you’re looking for. Give the designer as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with domain expert Monty Cahn.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my special guest, Lianne Young. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Paige Nielsen from Pyper.

Speaker 1 (34s): Adult Site Broker is proud to announce that we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts on ASB Cash. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction, ASB Cash, is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASBcash.com for more details and to sign up.

We’ve also added an events section to our website at adultsitebroker.com. Now you can get information on B2B events on our website, as well as special discounts reserved for our clients. Go to adult site broker.com for more details. Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top, and the search engines for the main industry keywords.

As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner has developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third party sites. The store currently has no employees, a site from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business.

SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Paige from Piper Paige, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 42s): Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 43s): It’s a pleasure. Paige came up with the idea for Piper after years of frustration when filing her taxes and seeking financial advice, working in non nine to five industries, she always felt judged, explaining and justifying her Gen Z career to eyebrow raising accountants. I I’ve seen those now. We couldn’t find an accountant or service that would show her the respect she knew she deserved. She made a decision open her own judgment free tax service.

She observed some older professionals taking a advantage of millennials or Gen Zers, assuming they didn’t know any better. Paige also found that there was a lack of information available from finance and tax professionals. If these professionals wouldn’t help younger clients understand other taxes work, who would? From here the concept of Piper was born and Paige and her team have been working on the company’s growth ever since. Paige’s dream is for individuals to find the financial autonomy and pride that should come with filing taxes and taking control of their finances.

She wants to uplift and empower each individual in our industry. Today, Paige is continuing to build and expand the Piper community, offering non-judgmental tax and finance services for all. Ultimately, her goal is to disrupt, disrupt, I should say, a traditional industry and make financial information and services simple and available. Piper proudly serves people such as adult entertainers, content creators and dancers. They employ certified accountants, lawyers and financial advisors across Canada and the US who have been hand selected and trained to ensure their services are welcoming to all.

And they’re working on building a community platform that will be home to practical workshops, tools, discussions, and more. Paige, I just talked about why you started Piper, do you have anything to add?

Speaker 2 (4m 45s): No, I think you said it perfectly.

Speaker 1 (4m 47s): Okay. Well, tell me, we were talking offline a little bit about your background. First of all, you’re 25 years old, which blows me away. Talk about the things you did before you got into Piper.

Speaker 2 (5m 3s): Yeah, so it’s been an interesting journey so far. Definitely not boring. I’m a, I mean college and university dropout, and I became a flight attendant at 18. Did that for a few years. Then I worked in nightlife doing bottle service in a big city in Canada. That was great. Great money. Then I worked in luxury resale. I had a business doing that and in manufacturing and clothing manufacturing.

Speaker 1 (5m 32s): Yeah, you told me about the clothing manufacturing tie dye. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (5m 38s): Yeah. I mean, during covid, those matching tie dye sweatsuits were, were a hit

Speaker 1 (5m 44s): Having lived through the seventies, that just gives me the shivers up and down my spine.

Speaker 2 (5m 54s): I mean, yeah, I can, I can imagine definitely growing up with that. But yeah, it was, it was a huge thing during covid, so great business, fun business. So

Speaker 1 (6m 6s): Is tie-dye still a thing?

Speaker 2 (6m 8s): No, I don’t think so. I think we’re onto the next run now.

Speaker 1 (6m 12s): Thank you, Lord. Everything old is new again, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (6m 17s): Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (6m 19s): I mean, there are no new ideas. All the movies, remakes, you know? Yeah. I mean, it’s like TV shows, remakes, songs, remakes. It’s like, I think this, this world right now suffers from a lack of imagination.

Speaker 2 (6m 38s): Yeah. Creativity. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (6m 41s): Big time. So how old is Piper? And talk a bit about the growth so far.

Speaker 2 (6m 47s): Yeah, so I knew definitely when I first had the idea of Piper, I wanted to launch in Canada in the us I’m Canadian, so yes, it was an an easy market to go go into, but actually most of our clients are actually in the us Yeah. So that’s also great, but Sure. Yeah. So Piper is a year old, actually, Piper just turned to one year, couple days ago. So,

Speaker 1 (7m 15s): Oh, congratulations. Happy birthday.

Speaker 2 (7m 18s): Thank you, thank you, thank you. It’s definitely something I’m proud of and I’m looking forward to this year and all the, all the projects that we have going on.

Speaker 1 (7m 27s): So talk about, you talked about how working in a gig economy is, is really what we’re in right now. Yeah. And you doing things like doing bottle service, which by the way, a dear friend of mine, his daughter does it, and she makes freaking bank working. It’s crazy. Two days a week. It’s crazy. It’s crazy. Oh yeah, I know, man. Horny. Horny man. Yeah. Oh, you gotta love him. Right?

Talk about some of the experiences you had trying to get your taxes done when you worked in that type of industry.

Speaker 2 (8m 7s): It was very difficult. And I mean, I think the big problem is there’s a lack of information out there, and there’s a lack of trustworthy professionals, and unfortunately a lot of professionals will take, take advantage of your, you know, you not knowing what’s going on with your finances or how to do taxes and stuff like that. So that’s really unfortunate. Right. But I, yeah, I experienced some of that, and I’ve talked about this on other podcasts where I was unfortunately sexually assaulted in a, a tax firm Oh, Jesus.

In Canada. Oh, yeah. This is why I decided to serve Piper, so in Canada. Oh my god. Yeah. It was awful. And then I got a, a, a big tax bill because I ran outta that office and what, you know, oh yeah. I, I mean, I’ve been doing my taxes with a professional since I was 18 years old. Yeah. And my usual tax bill is like a certain number. And after that event, I got a tax bill of an extra $6,000 that I had to pay him, which, which I didn’t.

Of course. But yeah, hopefully.

Speaker 1 (9m 24s): I hope, I hope you pr I hope you pressed charges.

Speaker 2 (9m 28s): Yeah. This was a really eye-opening experience, obviously, and a lot of people started coming forward with their own experiences, just with unprofessional professionals. And some of our clients have had that before, prior to working with us, and yeah. So that’s kind of my experience. It’s unfortunate, but I mean, Piper came out of it, right? So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (9m 55s): Well, and there’s also a very dark side of some men. I, I mean, I grew up being raised by my mom, so I’m a person who has all the respect in the world for women. Unfortunately, not all men are like that. Yeah. And, ugh, God, that just, that just makes me sick.

Speaker 2 (10m 17s): And it got worse, you know, when I had the piper idea, I started, you know, calling around different accountants and stuff like that. Yeah. And I started saying, you know, have you worked with entertainers? Have you worked with dancers? And I remember calling one accountant in a small town in Ontario, Canada, and he’s like, no, I, I’ve never worked with, with, you know, people in the adult industry, but I would just trade services.

Speaker 1 (10m 44s): Oh, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (10m 46s): So then I’m like, okay, I have to, I have to make Piper work.

Speaker 1 (10m 50s): Oh my goodness. Oh yeah. My goodness. Now, when you say they take advantage of younger people’s lack of knowledge, what, I mean, in what form does that manifest itself?

Speaker 2 (11m 5s): So I would definitely say with the price point, they’re going to charge you a lot more because you don’t know any better. Right. Like you’re, yeah. You’re, you’re intimidated by the IRS or the cra and you’re worried you wanna do everything by the book and they’ll just charge you a lot more.

Speaker 1 (11m 24s): Geez. So yeah. That’s, that sucks. Now, are the younger accountants any different than the older accountants?

Speaker 2 (11m 33s): I would say so, yes. Absolutely. Our team is, is a mix between like, I would say like forties, but I also have like thirties. I also have people that are late twenties and they’re much more open-minded. They know what’s going on in this world. They, they know, know about, you know, income on YouTube and the income that our clients are making and freelancer websites and all that stuff. So, so they’re with it.

Speaker 1 (12m 3s): So when you interview an accountant, tell me some of the questions you ask them.

Speaker 2 (12m 9s): I really try to get a feel for their personality and see if there are a right fit in general. I think it’s really easy to tell off the bat if somebody’s gonna be a a right fit. Some of the, the questions will be, you know, do you know only fans? Do you know about these campsites? How do you feel about this? What do you see? The issues, stuff like that. And we have a whole training manual that we go through with them. Yeah. And we really talk about different things and, and terms that are you should be using and terms that you shouldn’t be using.

Speaker 1 (12m 45s): Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. Well, and I would imagine a lot of, especially a lot of the younger accountants are users of these platforms. Not that the older guys aren’t, because they certainly are, but I would think a lot of the younger guys certainly know these platforms. They Yeah. They know PornHub, they know only fans, you know, they know live Jasmine and they’re, they’re probably on those platforms.

Speaker 2 (13m 12s): Yeah. And it’s not so taboo. Like, it’s like Yeah. It’s very normalized. Right, right. Like they’re, they’re very cool with it, you know what I mean? Like, they, they don’t see it as anything like Oh, like risque.

Speaker 1 (13m 26s): Yeah, exactly. And you know, as we like to say in our industry, sex workers work. Exactly. And as long, I would imagine that anyone who you hire has to have that attitude.

Speaker 2 (13m 38s): Absolutely. We actually have it in our pamphlet and we always say, you know, don’t be an asshole.

Speaker 1 (13m 44s): So

Speaker 2 (13m 46s): We have it in bold letters. That’s,

Speaker 1 (13m 49s): That’s hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. Well that, that should be the rallying cry for everyone, I’m afraid. Yep. What are the biggest challenges you’re facing with Piper?

Speaker 2 (14m 1s): Well, actually there’s actually a shortage of accountants like Nationwide. So really I’ve, yeah, I, I’ve had really difficulty just trying to find more accountants that are a good fit to, to onboard. So that’s probably my biggest challenge so far.

Speaker 1 (14m 20s): Sure. Well, I saw, I think especially this time of year, oh yeah. You’re probably gonna have trouble reaching people.

Speaker 2 (14m 26s): Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (14m 27s): Are there like trade shows that accountants and tax preparers go to that you can go and meet, meet a bunch of them?

Speaker 2 (14m 38s): Yeah, there’s a few. I haven’t gone so far. It hasn’t really been on my radar, but maybe, yeah, I could check one out. I just don’t know if, if the younger accountants go to them.

Speaker 1 (14m 50s): Hey, you can always ask Bruce for a marketing idea. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (14m 55s): Definitely. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (14m 57s): It’s in my dna. So if I, if you ever wanna sit down and strategize a little bit, I’m more than happy to help you in any way because Oh, thank you. Honestly, I think what you’re doing is phenomenal. I really, really do. This is one of the reasons I wanted to interview you, because quite frankly, sex workers and people in the adult industry, which I happen to be one, are really tired of being subject to bias.

Yeah. And we see it every single day. Yeah, totally. When a company comes along, that is the opposite of that. You just have to applaud it.

Speaker 2 (15m 41s): Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. No, you’re welcome. Appreciate it. Yeah. It’s really important to me to try to disrupt this industry, this very old fashioned backwards industry, which is the accounting industry. Yes. Yeah. They haven’t made much advances in anything technology or accepting other like sex work or anything like that. Yeah. So, yeah, it’s really important to me to continue pushing forward and break those boundaries. In

Speaker 1 (16m 9s): Fact, I’ll tell you a story. Okay. I have a friend who I used to hang out with a lot when I lived in the States, knew him from the gym where you meet a lot of friends. We used to party together, we used to do things together. We had a lot of mutual friends, and he was an accountant. Oh. And he had a firm in the area that I lived, and he did my taxes for years. Oh. And then he came to me and he said, Bruce, I’m sorry, but I can’t do your taxes anymore.

And I said, why he be, he said, because my partners came to me and said, we handle a lot of school districts and we can’t be associated with the adult industry.

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): Wow. Awful,

Speaker 1 (16m 56s): Awful. Yeah. I mean, I don’t blame him. No, he’s a great guy. Yeah. He’s a partner in the firm, but it’s not just his firm, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17m 7s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17m 8s): So, so that’s awful. That’s a pretty good example why there’s a need for Piper.

Speaker 2 (17m 14s): Thank you. Yeah. It’s, it’s definitely frustrating. I empathize with that.

Speaker 1 (17m 19s): Yeah. I just thought about that. It, it’s been years. It’s been years. Probably 15, 20 years since that happened, but Wow. Yeah. And you know, I just went, well that’s, that sucks, but move on with life, you know? Yeah. I was, I was a little hurt at first, and then when I thought about it, I went, I get it, I get it. It’s not his fault. It’s not

Speaker 2 (17m 39s): His fault. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17m 40s): So why began a company in an industry that you didn’t go to school for?

Speaker 2 (17m 46s): Geez, good question.

Speaker 1 (17m 49s): I know, cuz I asked him.

Speaker 2 (17m 51s): Yeah. I love creating and I love creating companies and I love filling gaps and I love problem solving. Yeah. So, for me, I never think like education or lack of should ever hold you back. Yeah. So I d I just went for it to be honest. I just went for it and it worked out and I’m just gonna keep going.

Speaker 1 (18m 14s): Yeah. I’ll tell you what, I didn’t know anything about brokering websites when I started adult Site Broker. Yeah. I, I, I made a deal by accident. Okay. A guy, a guy contacted me, we were talking about marketing cuz that, you know, that was what I was doing most of the time in those days I still have a marketing company and he goes, you know, Bruce, I think I wanna sell instead of marketing. And he had three small gay affiliate programs. And I went, he goes, do you know a lot of, do you know people in the gay space?

I go, yeah, absolutely. Because in recent years what I had done was gone a little bit outside of my comfort zone and I started attending the gay parties. Okay.

Speaker 2 (18m 57s): Oh, love it.

Speaker 1 (18m 58s): Because it was like, well I’m from San Francisco, first of all, so it wasn’t that I’m like, my best friend’s gay, my wife’s brother’s gay. I mean, it wasn’t, and I live in, I live in Thailand for Christ’s sake, you know. Yeah. I mean, I mean lady boys everywhere. It’s not like it’s that outside of my comfort zone. And then at the time, Morgan from Cyber Socket, who since sold it, started extending the cyber socket parties to the straight world and things really started to come together at that point.

And everybody was going to a lot of the same parties, although there are still gay parties and I’ll go to ’em, hell yes, I’ll go to ’em cuz I wanna make those contacts. I’m not a stupid business person. I’m not gonna say, oh no, I’m just gonna deal with straight people. And I’ve had a lot of business from the gay side of the business probably because of that. So, no, I, I,

Speaker 2 (19m 58s): Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19m 59s): So yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20m 1s): Life is full of, life is full of opportunities and it’s so important I think, just to take any opportunity, how

Speaker 1 (20m 8s): Did you get the smart at 25?

Speaker 2 (20m 11s): I guess that, I dunno, couple of years of life, life experience.

Speaker 1 (20m 16s): Yeah, I guess because I’ve always wanted to be an entrepreneur and I didn’t really do anything about it until, well, I guess I was 28, so I guess I wasn’t that far beyond.

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): Yeah, you’re not. No, no,

Speaker 1 (20m 31s): No, I wouldn’t, no, I wouldn’t have been, no, I wouldn’t have been 28. Let me think about this. 20, 45, 22. Yeah. More like 43. So anyway, little little bit behind you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s hard. It’s,

Speaker 2 (20m 45s): That’s fine.

Speaker 1 (20m 46s): It’s hard to count to 65 sometimes. So where do you see Piper in five years?

Speaker 2 (20m 54s): We have so many projects on the go that I’m definitely excited to share closer to the date. Really disrupting the accounting industry. Like Yeah. Really totally disrupting the accounting industry, implementing a lot of technology, implementing so many different things and just breaking down those walls in, in sex work and in the accounting industry. Sure.

Speaker 1 (21m 20s): Yeah. Yeah. That’s good.

Speaker 2 (21m 22s): Yeah. And hopefully expanding to other countries that’s, that’s a big goal of mine.

Speaker 1 (21m 27s): That would be fantastic. You know, another thing you could do and it just, just hit me, go to some accounting schools.

Speaker 2 (21m 34s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21m 35s): Yeah. I mean, you know, you get some people outta college, they’re hungry.

Speaker 2 (21m 40s): Yeah, totally. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (21m 43s): So,

Speaker 2 (21m 44s): Absolutely. Well,

Speaker 1 (21m 45s): Piper’s clients fall outside conventional jobs now. We’ve obviously at least seen the gig industry growing so much in recent years. What do you think the future of these jobs is?

Speaker 2 (21m 59s): Let’s talk about like just freelance in general. I mean, that’s taking over completely. Desi, freelance designers, freelance developers, freelance programmers, freelance, everything. So the gig, the gig economy is just gonna get bigger as you’ve seen in, in the last few years. Especially with, I would say only fans sex work is becoming a little more normalized step by step.

Speaker 1 (22m 26s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (22m 28s): So I’m hoping that, you know, it’s not stigmatized anymore.

Speaker 1 (22m 33s): Yeah. Yeah. But what, I mean as far as gig work goes, how, what kind of an impact do you see AI having on it?

Speaker 2 (22m 43s): AI will definitely take over copywriters, that’s for sure. I mean, the work that AI has done, chat G P T, it’s incredible. I mean, I’ve tested it out, like email my boss or email my teacher or different things. And it’s really crazy. VR is becoming bigger in the sex workspace as you probably know. Yeah. It’s just gonna get more, more techy.

Speaker 1 (23m 10s): Yeah, definitely. My fear is that AI is going to take over and replace a lot of those gig jobs.

Speaker 2 (23m 22s): Yeah. I unfortunately, I believe it will.

Speaker 1 (23m 25s): Yeah. Yeah. Which is sad, but it’s inevitable.

Speaker 2 (23m 30s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23m 30s): What’s been the most rewarding part of building Piper?

Speaker 2 (23m 35s): I would say just the feedback that we get from clients or the different situations like taxes. People think, oh, like I don’t wanna pay pay taxes or I don’t wanna do my taxes and stuff. But it really does have an impact on your life. I mean we’ve had, we’ve helped so many different clients in like, even like court cases, you know, for them to get custody of their children. So really we’ve helped. Yeah, we’ve helped. It’s so many different, and that’s the most rewarding thing to me, is just helping people.

Speaker 1 (24m 8s): Absolutely. I mean, in any industry that should be your goal is to help people. If your goal is to make money and that’s your number one goal, you got problems.

Speaker 2 (24m 20s): Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (24m 23s): Because it’ll catch up with you. So what are some lessons you’ve learned along your journey to get to where you are today?

Speaker 2 (24m 32s): In Piper or in life in general?

Speaker 1 (24m 36s): Well, why don’t you tell me both.

Speaker 2 (24m 38s): Okay. I would say in life, definitely seize any opportunity that you can. And the worst that can happen is you fail and if you fail, so what? Yeah. Like what’s that? You know, leave your ego at the door. I’ve started a lot of different companies and some of them were very successful and some of them not so much. But I’ve learned so much through those, I would never trade it at all. So yeah, I think just always give it your best shot.

Try new things, right. And grab the world by its balls. Like just go for it.

Speaker 1 (25m 16s): I love that.

Speaker 2 (25m 17s): And yeah, in terms of Piper, I would say I’ve learned a lot about people in general and how they think. Yeah. And the psychology that comes with finances, cuz I knew my own psychology when it came from finances. But really how you grow up, how your parents were with money, how you’ve seen different friends or family members around you interact with money or their money relationship really impacts you and impacts your money relationship. So that’s been really a really interesting lesson.

Speaker 1 (25m 49s): Huh. What drives you, Paige? I mean, it’s still, I, it is still, it’s still blowing me away. Your tender, young age and all you’ve already accomplished. What drives you?

Speaker 2 (26m 1s): I think it’s just challenges. I love, I love creating, I love building and I love problem solving. So any problems that I see or, you know, there’s a lack in the market for, I jump on it. I just jump on it and just hope, you know, it works out. But even if it doesn’t, who cares? You know, who cares it? People often, a lot of my friends will be like, well, are you scared you’re gonna fail? And I’m like, okay, I fail. So what? Yeah. I start something else.

Speaker 1 (26m 31s): Yeah, yeah. You fall down, you get back up. Right?

Speaker 2 (26m 36s): Exactly. Exactly. And that’s how entrepreneurship is, you know, that.

Speaker 1 (26m 39s): Oh, I absolutely do. And when I started this, when I, I started the marketing company, when I started the general consulting company, all of those, actually, I did ’em for the reason that there was a hole in the market and that there was a need for all of those things. And, you know, some have succeeded more than others. I would say adult site broker has been a smashing success. And it’s like, just because something isn’t the biggest thing since sliced bread, it doesn’t mean that you failed adult site.

Broker has taken time to grow and now, you know, we’re the, you know, we’re the leader in the industry and I think it’s what you wanna be, you know, to, to the, to the point that there’s imitators, which I think is the greatest, is the greatest form of flattery actually. Yeah. So it’s just one of those things that look, it just comes down to finding a need in filling it. So I completely agree with you on that.

And I’ll always do that. And I’ve, I’ve always got ideas. I’m always buying domains thinking I’m gonna do this,

Speaker 2 (27m 57s): I do

Speaker 1 (27m 57s): This. And most of the, yeah. Most of the time I don’t end up using the domain. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28m 1s): That’s how

Speaker 1 (28m 2s): It goes. But yeah. By the way, why Piper? What was the motivation for that? For the name?

Speaker 2 (28m 9s): Yeah, I actually get that question a lot. People think that I got it. I don’t know if you ever watched the show Silicon Valley? Nope. But it was, it was a company on there anyways, it was called Piper or Pay the Piper or something like, something like that. And so people think it’s from that. But I was thinking, like, I wanted, I actually listened to a podcast about, if you name your company a person’s name like Alexa for Amazon, it’s gonna be more memorable.

And so I started thinking about this, I started looking at baby names and I wanted a unisex name. And Piper came up and interesting, I mean, the traditional way of spelling Piper is p i p e r. Correct. And so I decided to add a y in there instead and, and change it a bit. And then it made sense. Yeah. Because pay the piper, you gotta pay the piper.

Speaker 1 (29m 2s): Yes. And it probably would’ve been a little hard to get the domain p p e r.com anyway. Yeah. I’m just gonna guess that’s taken. I can’t be sure, but I’m just guessing.

Speaker 2 (29m 14s): Yes. Yeah. And it’s a, it’s also an aircraft manufacturer as well, so.

Speaker 1 (29m 19s): Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Excellent. So now loneliness in our industry is a huge problem to find people over at Pineapple Support do a wonderful job with mental health issues. And that’s a big reason why we support them. How do you think Piper is helping people in the industry to feel less alone and more connected?

Speaker 2 (29m 46s): I think definitely just being an ear to listen. So we do a lot of consultation calls, both on packages purchase or in general. If, if they, if the client needs a consultation Right. And just providing that support and knowledge of finances or whatever that they’re asking for. We’ve seen that has helped a lot. And they, they say so, so I believe that as well as just maintaining a relationship with that person. I often will check in with clients and see how they’re doing.

We sent out holiday cards. I don’t want to be a a, a traditional accounting firm. I never got a, I never got a holiday card from, you know, my, my old accounting firm. Oh, I do my taxes. But I dunno, I just want to, to maintain that, that relationship with our clients and just let them know that we’re always there, whatever they need. There’s been many cases where our clients will ask us about different things.

So for example, we have a lot of dancer clients in the us so they’ll ask us about health insurance and where to find, so we, we assist with that no charge. And it’s just about helping this industry.

Speaker 1 (31m 3s): Right. It, it must be really, really refreshing for your clients to talk to you after having talked to traditional accountants all these years.

Speaker 2 (31m 16s): Yeah, it’s fun. Like, I love my clients, it’s totally fun. And it’s, I think it’s very comforting for them to see somebody who also worked in nightlife, who is their age, who looks like them, who gets it, who gets the fear. Because when I was making, you know, cash and I in these clubs and stuff, I didn’t know what to do with it. I had no idea, you know, at 2021, I have no idea. And I’m making, I came from, I didn’t come from money, so I had no one to turn to and really

Speaker 1 (31m 49s): Had to, if it was me, if it was me, I’d put it under my bed. I sure. As all wouldn’t tell the IRS about it.

Speaker 2 (31m 55s): Yeah. In a shoebox.

Speaker 1 (31m 59s): Exactly.

Speaker 2 (31m 60s): But yeah, it was, I really had to figure a lot of my financial situation and how to do things on my own. Right, of course. And so I implement that, I implement that in Piper,

Speaker 1 (32m 13s): A funny story, my accountant, my first accountant, he was old. Okay. I think at one time, roomed with my father. Okay. Who would be now like over a hundred. Okay. And he finally passed away. Oh. I think he was like 83 or 84. And he did my taxes up until the time he died. Wow. So he, and he knew I was in the industry, and I think he was kind of amused by it, actually. But you keep in mind, he had known me since I was a little boy.

Okay. Oh, and yeah, so Phil, oh God, I miss him because I gotta tell you, every year I’d see him once a year and I’d come to his house and we’d sit down and we’d talk about life and I’d talk about, you know, how things were going for me and Yeah. Yeah. And he, he was something special. He was really, really something special. So towards the end of him doing my taxes, I was in the adult industry and he goes, well, that’s interesting.

So how important do you think community and connection is for the people in the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (33m 28s): It’s the most important. I mean, really. Absolutely. Community is huge. It’s such an, in the sex work industry, in the adult industry, it’s such an isolating industry. Yeah. And it’s often, you know, you’re lost or maybe you went to the industry when you’re younger or, I mean, there’s so many issues that as, you know, we encounter and community is everything. And I think community in every single industry is everything. It’s so important.

Speaker 1 (33m 58s): Right? Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. There’s always been a stigma that people face in the adult industry. We were talking about this offline. How do you feel Piper is helping people overcome stigma?

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): It’s interesting because, I mean, I see it in my own city where people see what I’m doing and they have so many questions and they’re like, well, what do you mean, like, the adult? Why, why wouldn’t they just go to h and r Block? Or why wouldn’t they just go to a regular accountant? Yeah, I have, I mean, I have my own opinions about TurboTax and h and r Block, but I won’t share those. But some people don’t understand like, the amount of stigma that the adult industry has and Well, oh, I think it just cut out there.

Speaker 1 (34m 48s): It comes from the religious right, it comes from Republican politicians and really stigma. In fact, my blog writer did a blog post about this recently that we’re gonna, I’m gonna be putting up in a few days. There’s been a stigma about the adult industry going back centuries. So it’s really baked in to our society in North America, but also all over the world.

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (35m 19s): Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (35m 20s): People in the adult industry are looked down upon, I was talking yesterday, day before, day before to a trans performer at a wonderful interview, by the way. And she was saying to me that in the entertainment field, we’re on the bottom of the rung, and that’s how we’re looked at.

Speaker 2 (35m 44s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): And I don’t think there’s a hell of a lot that can be done about it. I do think things like only fans becoming more mainstream, PornHub becoming one of the number one brands in the world, things like that are going to help us. And quite frankly, I think as your generation and the generation before you get older, I think the stigma will become less and less. I really do. Yeah. Because the other people don’t give a rep.

They really don’t. Yep. They’re, they do what they do. And I mean, I’ve always felt that way. So, you know, maybe, maybe I was born before my time, but people don’t give a rep and Okay, so you’re a prostitute. Okay, so you’re a dancer. Okay. So you fuck on film. So what? Yeah. That’s what you do. That isn’t who you are.

Speaker 2 (36m 46s): No, not at all. And that’s the thing is like, we have so many clients that are Yes. In the adult industry, but they also own coffee shops. They also own, you know, other businesses, marketing firms, stuff like that. Like, and I think that’s so cool. And yeah, there’s such a stigma of like, oh, you’re a dancer. Oh, you’re, you know, you’re a porn star. Oh, that’s all you do. That’s who you are. Yeah. Like, absolutely not, not no way. It’s, it’s, it’s your job. It’s a small part of your life.

Speaker 1 (37m 16s): Exactly. Exactly. Jamie Kelly, the, the trans performer I was referring to, oh my God, she’s a musician. She is an editor. In fact, I

Speaker 2 (37m 29s): Love it.

Speaker 1 (37m 30s): She said to me, would you like me to edit our interview? And I’m like, oh boy, girl, I’d love to save some time right now. And she got it back to me in a couple of hours. And what an editing job it

Speaker 2 (37m 44s): Was. That’s amazing.

Speaker 1 (37m 44s): Incredible. So, I mean, people yes, people do a lot more than what their persona is in the adult industry. So

Speaker 2 (37m 55s): Yeah. And that’s what the world needs to realize. Like, big time. It’s like, it’s crazy that there’s still stigma, but I feel well definitely with companies like Pineapple Support Yes. My own company, other people moving forward and making things more normalized, I, I do think that that’s a good step in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (38m 18s): Well, and there’s another thing. Okay. Our industry gets tied together with child trafficking. Okay. And we have an organization, a S A C P, Tim Henning, who runs it, is also Canadian. And that organization is, what they do is protect children from seeing porn and from being put into porn.

That’s their, that’s their whole mission. And it’s fully supported by the adult industry. Alec Helme, the president, I don’t know what Alex’s title is these days. C e o, Graham, pupa, whatever Alec is. And he won’t go on my podcast yet, I’m still bummed. He funded it and started it. So, you know, wow. The people don’t realize all the good things this industry does. Free Speech Coalition.

I just recently interviewed Alison Bowden and she’ll be on a two-part series in March. And Alison Oh, what, have you had a chance to meet her?

Speaker 2 (39m 29s): No, not yet.

Speaker 1 (39m 30s): What an incredible lady. I’ve known her a long time because she’s been in the industry. She used to run kink and, and oh, she’s had other, other roles. But I mean, Allison, her organization is amazing. And how it stands for free speech that affects Every American. Yes, we’re talking about free speech as it relates to the adult industry, but the First Amendment in the United States is in grave danger because of the right wing and the right wing Supreme Court as well.

And the FSC is doing some amazing things. In fact, they were in Washington a month or two ago talking to people in Congress, and the real encouraging part is she said she got a willing ear from Democrats and Republicans.

Speaker 2 (40m 26s): Oh, amazing.

Speaker 1 (40m 27s): I was fantastic. No, I was by that. So listen for that. It’s gonna be really good. Okay.

Speaker 2 (40m 33s): Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (40m 34s): I didn’t mean to promote a bunch of episodes, but anyway. No, for, for anyone. And you’re gonna run after them anyway, so, you know, I guess they’ll have to go back and listen. So for anyone feeling lost, overwhelmed, or lonely working in our industry, what’s the best piece of advice you can give them?

Speaker 2 (40m 53s): Reach out. Reach out to your community, ask for support, reach out to us, you know, reach out to Bruce, ask for support, ask for pineapple support, pineapple support. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (41m 5s): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41m 6s): Just reach out to your community.

Speaker 1 (41m 8s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk to somebody. You know, Leia started Pineapple Support and she’s been on our podcast numerous times. She started Pineapple Support after all the suicides that had happened in our industry a few years ago. And it was what a godsend. Yeah. They’ve now helped over, I think Allison, who’s on the, who’s the president of the board, I don’t know when she sleeps. She said, I think 10,000 now people.

Speaker 2 (41m 40s): That’s amazing. Wow.

Speaker 1 (41m 42s): I mean, it’s incredible. Oh,

Speaker 2 (41m 43s): Allison, go Pineapple support. Yeah. That’s amazing.

Speaker 1 (41m 46s): I think every business in our industry should be a sponsor like we are. And I think that everyone in our industry should give them some financial support. No two ways about it. It’s something that’s just absolutely incredible. So, final question. What’s the biggest takeaway you’ve learned from setting up Piper?

Speaker 2 (42m 7s): I would say I’ll, I’ll talk about like the business side, and then I’ll talk about kind of the, our industry and I would say business. Keep pushing forward every day. Keep pushing forward. Never forget your mission. Never forget the goal of helping others and keep striving for that, and keep wanting to make a change. And in the adult industry, I would say I’m super honored and happy to be a part of this industry and to continue helping as much as I can.

And it’s nice to have you and yeah, thank you. And I just wanna, I wanna keep being there for everybody.

Speaker 1 (42m 48s): What did you I, one more bonus question. Yeah. What did you think you were getting into? I mean, you weren’t, you weren’t a part of the adult industry. What did you think the adult industry was like before you got into it? And now what do you think it’s like,

Speaker 2 (43m 4s): I have a lot of friends that were already in the industry. Both, yeah. Okay. So I knew, I mean, when I was 18, I was a server at a strip club, so Oh yeah. I’ve been around it. I’ve been around it definitely. And yeah, I have a lot of friends that do only fans or are in the cam industry and dancers and stuff like that. So I already knew. And then I just, yeah, kept looking Reddit, Twitter, and everything, and just started making connections, going to Exs.

And I loved the industry. I mean, I loved it before and I love it after.

Speaker 1 (43m 40s): It’s a wonderful family.

Speaker 2 (43m 42s): It’s amazing. It’s amazing. And I really saw that at my first ex Biz Miami back last May, and how everyone was so supportive of one another, and really, it was really big family. And I was so impressed that I’m like, I’m telling all my friends, I’m like, this is incredible.

Speaker 1 (43m 59s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. It’s been over 21 years for me, and I’ll tell you something, I’m never retiring from it. I’m never retiring. I don’t see any reason to leave unless something drastic happens to the industry because, and I hope it doesn’t because I love every minute of it. It’s fun. The people are great, and I look forward to every trade show so we can have another family reunion.

So

Speaker 2 (44m 30s): Yeah, totally. I mean, it’s the best trade shows. People are jealous of the trade shows that you and I go to, so Absolutely. It’s a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (44m 40s): It definitely is. Well, Paige, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Side Broker Talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 48s): Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (44m 50s): My broker tip today is part one of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. First, make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic is expensive, whether it’s search engine, traffic review, site traffic, or affiliate traffic. You pay it a lot for this traffic. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is you want your visitors to do. In the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy.

Have multiple ways to pay. In North America, most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world, credit cards aren’t used nearly as much. In Europe, for instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from. In Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing areas. Many people pay by mobile, do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions. You get most of your traffic, it’ll make you more money.

The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy. But since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t. If you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this is to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate. People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to, even some that are owned by large companies where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user.

You poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go there and check it out. Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll have a very special episode.

It’s our 150th segment for Adult site broker talk. We’ll be speaking with Lianne Young, one of Ron Jeremy’s alleged victims. You don’t wanna miss that. And that’s it for this week’s Adult site broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Paige from Pyper. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Land Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with performer and producer Jamie Kelly of Groovy and Jamiekelly.xxx Adult Site Broker is proud to announce that we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts on ASB Cash.

Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us, at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers in sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASBcash.com for more details and to sign up. We’ve also added an event section to our new website at adultsitebroker.com.

Now you can get information on B2B events on our website, as well as special discounts reserved for our clients. Go to adultsitebroker.com for more details. Now, let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer an amazing opportunity. If you’re in the live cams, model management or fan site spaces, or want to get into them, we have a private listing that may be just right for you. This company works with all major CAM sites and has access to hundreds of US based models.

We’re offering very limited information at the seller’s request. In order to maintain privacy, we anticipate multiple offers for this very rare listing. For more information, contact us at adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is Jamie Kelly. Jamie, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 11s): Hey, I’m so super happy to be here. You know, it’s been a long time. Like, like we’ve been trying to get this show together for, geez, weeks, maybe even a month. I’m so happy that we can finally get it together.

Speaker 1 (2m 24s): Me too. Now I’ll tell everyone about you. Jamie is a veteran, performer and producer in the adult industry. She’s currently based in lost wages. She’s received numerous, that’s what I call it. She’s received numerous accolades over her illustrious career, including the 2015 T e A best solo site award and the 2016 T A Best Scene Producer Award. In 2022, Kelly took home the coveted t a Transcendence Award.

She was recently nominated for Ex Biz Trans Performer of the Year. Kelly is also produced and directed groundbreaking titles.

Speaker 2 (3m 3s): Yeah, I did a, a transsexuals one and two for Groovy Productions

Speaker 1 (3m 7s): In 2018. She also signed with a trans erotica as a contract model. In 2021, Kelly celebrated a career milestone of 15 years in the adult industry. Congratulations. That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (3m 21s): Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (3m 22s): During her long career, she’s worked with a long list of production companies, including Grubby evil, angel trans erotica, VR bangers, gender, X King, legal, porno, and adult time, with more scenes to be released soon. You could find Jamie at her new solo site, Jamie kelly.xxx. She’s also on Twitter at Jamie Kelly XXX and Instagram at official Jamie Kelly. Catch her on only fans@clubjamiekelly.com and visit her official production site@jamiekellyproductions.com.

So, Jamie, tell us how you got your start in this crazy industry and became a performer.

Speaker 2 (4m 6s): I knew this was gonna be the first question. Okay. So over the years, lemme tell you straight up right away, 16 years in the industry. Hmm. Give or take a few months, 16 years in the industry. And I have told this story about how I got my start in the business countless times. Sure. Mostly on my own podcast and countless interviews. Let me try to like, because I know there’s a million questions coming up. Let me try to make it as succinct as I can.

It all was like, how I got my start was predicated on a dare. It was predicated on a dare. The last Joe job I ever had was working at a pizza place, large corporation, won’t say names, but I was working the line. I was the guy that put the toppings on pizzas. And we had a new hire come in, and this was a, a person that was, oh, probably 22, 24.

And they were very bohemian. It was a, it was a lady, and she was, she had this like kind of sense about her. She was like very kind of mind my language, but like gypsy ish. Sure. Very again, bohemian and, right. And she saw me right away. Now I’m like, at this time I’m like 24, 25 years old. I know nothing. I’m a dumb, stupid person. And she comes up to me and she, she pegs me right away.

And she says, she butts up to me on her first day of the job, says, Hey dude, you, you’d make a killing on Craigslist if you’d put up an ad and like, you know, guys would like you. I said, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, I barely knew what, like, this is like 2005, 2004 ish. And yeah, I knew my lay of land on, you know, the internet and things like Craigslist was just something on my periphery.

Hmm. This lady, she says to me, look, I, I’m coming from New York. I’m here in Texas. This is where I come from. This is what pizza place is. I used to be a, a dominatrix. I used to be a light sex worker, and I got all my business off of Craigslist. And I think you can make like a huge amount of money just like looking at you do that, like do that. And I thought like, man, you’re, what the fuck are you talking about?

You’re crazy. I’m just sitting here. Like, I’m just sitting here putting things on pizzas. Right. At the same time, in the back of my brain, I’m also 24, 25 years old. I’m full of gumption. I’m full of, you know what you are when you’re 24, 25 years old and huge fan of porn. A very sexual person, you know, like you are when you’re in your, you know, early twenties. Sure. And so for a second I thought, man, what is this girl talking about?

And I went home and on a lark, on a lark, I went ahead and I cruised through Craigslist just to see if what this chick was talking about was like true. And it turned out to be that case. And I was like, ah, shit, this is actually a thing. So what I did, as ambitious as I am, yeah. I went and I parsed through like a bunch of different ads. I was like, okay, if I’m gonna do this, if I’m gonna do this, let me like, kind of compile, you know, a kind of what this person says, what that person says.

Yeah. And see if I can see if I can draw someone in. And at this point, while I’m at that phase of my, like, like my brains, I didn’t really ever take it seriously. Right. It was just a, it was just a, it was just an experiment, literally. Just an experiment. Sure. And then what I did was I compiled some language from some other people’s ads and I, I, like, I picked the weirdest price point and like it, to this day, it makes no sense to me.

I put $135 an hour, but for some reason it made sense to me to make $135. The thing. Anyway, I put up the ad, I had my little, my little flip phone at the time. Again. This is like 2004, 2005. Yeah. I had like a little weird T-Mobile phone and I took like a picture like you do at the time. And it looked like it would look for a, a flip phone picture. Yeah.

I put it up, I did the ad, I had the price point, and I put the picture and I walked away from the computer and I thought nothing would come of it. I got myself busy for about an hour. I came back to the computer and then I look at my email and

Speaker 1 (9m 31s): Just

Speaker 2 (9m 33s): Nonstop. Wow. It was just freaking nonstop. Yeah. So I, I, I decide to choose a guy. I like, what do you know, at 24, 25? Right. I just, I, I just picked whatever I thought felt the safest. I picked a guy and they were amenable and we like did our back and forth schmutz for a little bit. And within like two hours, this guy picks me up from my home. I was living at my mom’s at the time.

Oh, geez. And yeah. Oh, dude, it was like three in the morning living at my mom’s. I had nothing to my name. Oh. It was a whole schmutz. And this guy drives up. Oh. This is the worst thing in the world. I, I please anybody listening to this story, please don’t do what I did.

Speaker 1 (10m 24s): I was gonna say, have him come to your house, first of all. Oh.

Speaker 2 (10m 28s): Oh. Well, I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (10m 29s): Right.

Speaker 2 (10m 30s): I’m coming from working a Joe job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And having like, just like being a sexual forward person in the privacy of my own home. Yeah. And then making this like, well, like making sexuality a profitable business. Right. All in a one stroke. Yeah. As a dare given to me. Yeah. From a person that was a new hire at the pizza place that I worked. It’s funny. He’s nonsense. It’s absolutely nonsense. So this guy, he comes and picks me up. The punchline is, I spent an hour with this guy.

I spent an hour with him, and he, like, he drove me to his place. We spent an hour mostly talking. It was mostly hanging out with a guy. Well,

Speaker 1 (11m 14s): That ha I understand. That happens. That happens a lot with sex workers.

Speaker 2 (11m 17s): Oh, well, we’ll get to that. Yeah. But like, for the purposes of this, how did I get my start story? I spent an hour with this guy mostly talking. Right. I’m a musician. He’s a musician. We had some things to talk about. I had no idea what kind of environment I was in. Everything was confusing and weird. And then he brought me back to my place and it was like about an hour. And at I, I knew he was paying me money, but I, like, I had no idea how any of this worked.

So everything was like weird. Yeah. It just felt like, it felt like a fever dream. Actually. My first, like, my first go round, it felt like a fever dream. Yeah. Yeah. Everything was like nut, like, so new and so weird and so fucked off compared to like my on the grid lifestyle. Yeah. So that he brings me back to my place and I know there’s money on the table. And I’m like, okay, well, so in my mind I’m like, well, this is the part where like, we didn’t do anything.

I probably gotta do something. So it’s like now 5 36 in the morning in front of my fucking mom’s place. Geez. Where he is dropping me off. And I hadn’t done anything. So I don’t feel like I’ve like actually earned the money he’s about to give me. So what I do is I do a little bit of oral stuff. Yeah. And it’s very awkward. It’s very awkward. I don’t, I

Speaker 1 (12m 54s): Would think, I would think in front of your mom’s place.

Speaker 2 (12m 56s): Well, like I, I knew my mom was asleep. I knew she wasn’t gonna be up for Yeah. But like four or five hours. That wasn’t the thing that fucked with me. The thing that fucked with me was interacting with these, this dude in this whole brand new situation. Yeah. And it’s so new and it’s so weird. And I’m so young. I was, I just, I just put on a fucking thing on a goof from something that some pizza lady told me, you know? So it’s, it’s funny. Super strange. It’s super

Speaker 1 (13m 26s): Strange. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13m 26s): Yeah. So I, I, what I do is, when you look at it in hindsight, I did my job, but in my mindset at the time, it, it was like, I felt like I owed him in a weird, you know, kind of like, well,

Speaker 1 (13m 45s): You know better now

Speaker 2 (13m 46s): Way.

Speaker 1 (13m 47s): I mean, you gave him what he, what he wanted. You gave, you gave what he wanted, what he needed.

Speaker 2 (13m 51s): Well, see, the thing is he never, like, I never got what I thought were like social cues. See, I think this guy was like, as nervous as hitting me up. He didn’t know that I was like, brand spanking new. Right. And he, this may have been his first time. Yeah. That was kind of the vibe. Sounds like it. I didn’t know it. I didn’t know it at the time. But in, in hindsight, in retrospect, I probably could have got out of the car and took the money and just like went away.

Right. But I felt like I was obligated. I, this is the job, this is the thing I gotta do. Right. And so I went ahead and did it. Sure. And it wasn’t much. It was like five minutes of nonsense. Yeah. Yeah. Five minutes was just nonsense. Right. I don’t know if he was happy. It just felt like nothing to me. There was no actual connection. I was super in my head, he was super in his head, I’m sure. But I took the money and I ran, and I don’t mean I ran, but I went back to my fucking house and I went into the bedroom.

And here’s the thing, and here’s the fucking punchline of this whole story about how I got into the industry. Here’s what changed everything. I went back and I had my little bag that I made, you know, always a planner. I had this bag that had clothes and lube and things and all the things I thought would be needed. Right. Which none of it was ever used. But at the, at the bottom of the bag was $135.

This weird fucking price point that I made on Craigslist. Right. And there it was. And I looked at it and I said, wow. That was one hour of literally spending a time with a guy short of driving there and getting dropped off. And then five minutes of doing a very awkward sexual act. And then I have this, it would take me a week to make this money.

Wow. That changed everything. Sure. And not only did I mean, fuck the money, like I know in the back of my brain, it kind of like illuminated systematically, like the problem with what it is to live in the world. That I some schmitz could get this for nothing, for literally nothing. I’m

Speaker 1 (16m 27s): Loving, I’m loving the Jewish phrases, by the way. I’m assuming you’re Jewish too. Emma?

Speaker 2 (16m 31s): Yeah. Little quarter Judas. Yeah. Oh,

Speaker 1 (16m 33s): Okay. I’m a hundred percent

Speaker 2 (16m 35s): On my dad’s side. On my grandma’s side. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 (16m 37s): Okay. I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16m 39s): But, but yeah. But, but, but that’s what it is. That’s what it was. And that was the, now this is 16 years ago, I was all of, well, I was 25 years old, and I realized once that had happened as awkward and as weird and how it came outta left field as it was that there was a better way to live if, and now there’s an asterisk on this. Right. If you have the ability to do so.

Yeah. It takes a lot. It takes a lot. Not everybody’s gonna pay for everything. Right. If somebody pointed me out, told me I was marketable, I went and tested a thing and it turned out to be correct. Right, right. And then I made a bunch of money. Sure. And then I went, wow. Everything changes from this point on. Oh yeah. So what I essentially did was I found a grift in the system. And that’s what has been for the past 16 years, what we’re talking about when you talk to me.

Yeah. We’re talking about somebody that has found a grift in the system.

Speaker 1 (17m 45s): It’s all good. It’s all good. So tell us the background on your rebranding from Jamie French to Jamie Kelly.

Speaker 2 (17m 57s): Well, that’s a real easy one. My actual real name. I’ve never gone through a pseudonym. I’ve never been. My, my born name is James Byron Percival French Jr. Up until about three years ago, that was my legal name. Oh, okay. As my performer name. I went by Jamie French. So just a, a kind of a fem Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18m 28s): James James is not gonna quite make it as a trans performer, I don’t think.

Speaker 2 (18m 32s): Yeah, yeah. No, no. But, but, but the thing is, like, people go through all kinds of, like, when, as a trans person, identity is a huge part of everything that you go through. Course. And there’s a lot of people that go out there course, and they like get a really f a really fem name that has like nothing to do with their born name. And then there’s like people that just like, do what I did, they take their actual name and just do like the femmy version.

Speaker 1 (19m 2s): They feminize it. Sure, sure, sure,

Speaker 2 (19m 3s): Sure, sure. But the thing is, I didn’t, I never put a lot of thought into it. In fact, where I got Jamie from James was way back when I was 16, my best friend had a girlfriend that saw me like immediately as femme when I didn’t even realize my realize myself. Interesting. And she, she called me Jamie all the time. Interesting. So I just took that, I took that Yeah. From very teenage years. Yeah. I took that name and I made it my name.

I wanted to make it as simple as possible. So I became Jamie French and I was Jamie French for, oh, I’d say from like, officially from like, oh 2011 up until just very, very recently. And the reason why I dropped the French is because French comes from my dad’s side and my dad wasn’t a great guy. So what I did join

Speaker 1 (20m 3s): The club.

Speaker 2 (20m 5s): Yeah. Seems to be, seems to be the case all around.

Speaker 1 (20m 9s): Oh, my dad. My dad wa it’s not that he wasn’t a great guy, he was just too much, too, too mentally ill. I think that was the, I think that was the, the real issue. So,

Speaker 2 (20m 18s): Well I think as we talk further, we’re gonna find that that’s gonna be a large part of what we talk about.

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): Sure, sure,

Speaker 2 (20m 25s): Sure. When it comes to, you know, abuse fathers trauma and things. Yeah. And that’s like, that’s absolutely can’t escape that from people being I porn. Sure. Yeah. But to get right back to the quick, I decided that I was gonna get Fs facial feminization surgery. Oh, okay. Just kind of chip away, make it a little more girly. Right. And I said, if I’m gonna go all that way, I had to kind of also like, look at myself inside.

I mean, the outside’s easy, the outside’s money, the outside’s, how much you’re willing to put into it. But it’s, it’s all about your inside. And I’m carrying this name around with me, and I don’t give it, like, again, I don’t do a pseudonym. The closest I got to a pseudonym was just saying, Jamie, but I always, I always carried the French part with me. Yeah, yeah. For my dad. So I said, if I’m going all in, let me go all in. You

Speaker 1 (21m 23s): Know, you know, maybe I should do that too. I’m serious. I’m serious. Because what you’re saying makes so much sense. It’s not even funny.

Speaker 2 (21m 32s): No, it’s, well, it’s not funny. So what I did was I went where my, the name that I have now is completely predicated off of love. So I went, well shit, why am I gonna just carry around my dad’s name French when I could just go to my mom, who’s an amazing person. That’s where the love

Speaker 1 (21m 52s): Likewise, likewise. Yeah. I hear you. My mom’s ma name I

Speaker 2 (21m 55s): Hear name is Kelly. So I’m confused that name.

Speaker 1 (21m 59s): Okay. That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (21m 59s): Again, I’m still not making a pseudonym. Right. I’m going a feminization of James and my mom’s maiden name. Beautiful.

Speaker 1 (22m 7s): I

Speaker 2 (22m 8s): Love it. Perfect name. And I’m not scared of anything, so I’m not gonna make a pseudonym on top of that. Yeah. That’s, I’m just gonna go with the healthiest, most loved born thing.

Speaker 1 (22m 18s): I love it. That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (22m 19s): So, so that’s where that came from.

Speaker 1 (22m 21s): So in your Twitter bio, you describe yourself as the people’s girlfriend. Could you elaborate a bit?

Speaker 2 (22m 28s): Well, the, the thing is, I, oh boy, I don’t want to, I don’t wanna make it like heavy, but there’s like three things I got going on as okay. You know, as of the date of this podcast, like the way that I see things, there’s my private life, right there is Right my creative life, which can be put into the public. Right. And then there’s the thing that makes me the money, which is the porn.

Speaker 1 (23m 1s): Right.

Speaker 2 (23m 3s): And all of those can be kind of, there’s a lot of like gray borders in between those three things. So I, I wanna make myself marketable and honest and private all at the same time. I want to have like nine cakes and eat it too, is the kind of thing I got going on right now. So it’s what I like to do is I like the, the pictures to speak for themselves, the videos to speak for themselves.

Right. I don’t like to put a lot of, like, I’m not looking for validation. I’m not looking to like super promote. I think if you do something that’s worthwhile and you put your best effort into it as a creative effort, then you shouldn’t have to say nothing. I know most of the numbers that come into my, like social media, the, it’s, it’s could be, it’s could be fans.

So if I’m going to like, use words, I wanna like make a very gentle thing for the words. Give, give fans. If that’s the most of the people that are come in, I want to give them a very gentle thing. Accessibility, say the people’s girlfriend. You can absolutely invite like some perish also things out of being like too soft. But I wanna give some softness.

Essentially what I’m trying to do is like create a kind of median thing where I get to put up the product and I’m not gonna be very, very, like promotional. I’m not gonna be very marketing because I’m not trying to beg for attention. Again. I think if the thing I do warrants, you know, people’s attention, it should speak on its own. Sure. I’m busy working behind the scenes to make things look as good as they can.

Right. And you know, you can only go so far. Sure. But I’m gonna do the best that I can. But I know a little bit of words helps, you know, so I, I created this idea of the people’s girlfriend and what I do on social media is I do the best I can for what looks, what I think might be good, might play to the fans. Right. And then I just say really gentle stuff.

Hmm. You know, stuff that we imagine, you know, a girlfriend, like just showing pictures of food, you know, Hey, I cook. You know, kind of give a little bit of like who I am as a person. Right, right. That’s

Speaker 1 (26m 1s): Cause that’s, and you know, something, I think that’s, I think that’s the best type of marketing for a performer is showing the audience who they really are. They, they eat that up, no pun intended with the

Speaker 2 (26m 17s): Cooking. Well, I do that at a caveat. I give them just so much honesty. Right. Without being like gross or weird about the things that I do for studios or for personal shoots. Like all the like words that I say Sure. Are, are, I don’t do anything that’s explicit. I don’t say anything that’s explicit. Again, the content should speak for itself. Of

Speaker 1 (26m 43s): Course.

Speaker 2 (26m 44s): So I just give a little bit of schmidtz and then I fucking, I back off. I back off. Yeah. Probably smart. And then whatever comes out of that, comes out of that. Because at the end of the day, the only thing that brings in the dollar amount is what people want to see.

Speaker 1 (27m 0s): Right.

Speaker 2 (27m 1s): So again, it’s, it’s all about content. Yes. But I don’t want come off as spammy, you know, again, I don’t wanna say, Hey, last thing, you wanna do this thing, I did this like thing. I don’t know how good it is. Right. But I’m gonna like bludgeon you to death with like words of, oh, I fucked and I’d sucked and I sucked. And wouldn’t you imagine? And what would you do if and none of that shit. I don’t do any of that shit. Eh,

Speaker 1 (27m 27s): I think you’re, I think you’re smart. I

Speaker 2 (27m 28s): Don’t need because you, it’s subtlety. Subtlety is everything. Yes. Subtlety is everything. Absolutely. Don’t

Speaker 1 (27m 36s): Be, you don’t need to be like all the other performers out there. Well,

Speaker 2 (27m 40s): The thing is, my life is not predicated on this. Again, I’m not seeking validation or anything like that. I got a whole bevy of other things going on in my life, obviously.

Speaker 1 (27m 49s): And

Speaker 2 (27m 49s): The whole, like, the whole thing about like being in porn, and this is again, go way back to when I, you know, told you about how I got into this business. Yeah. It literally changed my life when I figured out how you can do what you could do. Right. With just a little bit of a left turn. Yes. The fact of the matter is this whole adult industry thing, it’s just a means to an end. Yeah. I know. You know, I, I know a lot of folks like take it as this is, this is the life.

This is what you do to me. I say, oh, whoa, whoa, I found an easy way out. This is a way to build capital for things that I, that are actually important. Taking care of family, taking care of friends. Sure. And as a creative person, although I put a a lot into this particular business, it’s, it’s about the money that I get back from it so that I can put into actual like, creative endeavors. Sure.

Sure. They have nothing to do with the adult entertainment industry.

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): So Jamie, how has your performance style evolved since you got into the industry?

Speaker 2 (28m 60s): As a person that’s been in the industry for going on 16 years now? It’s, it’s been a whole spectrum. And it really did start from a very like, chaotic young person’s mindset. Right. And when I got into the business, and I did my very first scene when I was ooh, 26, and actually we’re for real company where like money was on the line, people’s time was on the line.

Right. All I did was I brought my natural, you know, mid twenties sexual ambitious energy onto the stage. Okay. And that’s what they, that’s what they were capturing. And that’s all that this particular company at this particular time cared about. They just wanted the goods. Okay. And the goods is young, dumb, and full of come. Right. So that’s why I started and I was amenable to that because what they wanted was what I was, that’s what they shoot as the years progress.

I think the, like the main takeaway is that you learn like through what an audience like generally wants. You pay attention to what your customers respond to. You pay attention to the production groups that you work with. You listen to directors, you listen to this. And you also kind of, you know, keep in mind you know what what you’re into. And, and you find that over the years you start to just, just by doing, just by doing over and over and over again, you take every little bit of like information from authority figures down to paying customers and it all becomes a stew.

And you become like, you, you start to like mitigate information. And eventually what happens at the end of the day from being a young dung full of come, you know, kind of shot, candid essentially to like being in the midst of like full scale production. There’s, you know, it starts to actually become creative. It starts to become like movies.

You know, you get to a point where you’re there, you just start to get really, you, you break things down into like, there’s eight essential poses for photos. Okay. There’s five essential poses for like, scene positions. It becomes really, it becomes really like robotic. Well, that, that would be like the cynical takeaway from it.

Okay. But again, I have to like reiterate that this is a money-making venture Of course. And I can come from it from like a creative person’s point of view, or I can say like, what we know works that people generally like. Sure. And that’s why there, it does become formulaic. Oh, of course. I, I’d never, I’d never put this kind of stuff into my own creative endeavors. Right. But I also love that there’s a way to pinpoint a, like something that kind of grabs all like of the most, the like the way to please the most people.

And yes, it does, it, it, you can see it as robotic, but that’s just like, when I say fours and fives and eights of things, that’s just a starting point. Right. You know, there’s so many things that are going on. There’s scripts and who can act and what you’re lighting guys up to and is there good sound? And it is a bevy of like, it is a bevy of information that goes of course into creating a thing, right.

That if everybody’s at the tins can give something to an audience that they’ll actually appreciate Sure. And actually like open up their wallets for

Speaker 1 (33m 17s): There you go. Which is the, which is the bottom line.

Speaker 2 (33m 21s): Well, and yeah. For yeah. For this industry. That’s the bottom line. This is, of course, we are on the bottom rung of the ladder of the entertainment industry as far as the entertainment industry goes, as far as people imbibing colors, lights and sounds and shapes we’re on the bottom rung. If a thing’s going in a thing and it looks appropriate, like it, like it looks like it had half a fucking second of effort, you can get away with a lot.

Speaker 1 (33m 52s): So how have audiences’ attitudes changed towards trans porn since you started in the industry?

Speaker 2 (34m 1s): I know we got a lot of questions going forward, and I know I can make this one short and sweet and simple. When I started, it was around again, 2006, 2007 officially, you know, being on camera with the auspices of corporations. Right. Put me on there. And at that time we, I we were just on the cusp of being treated like circus freaks to being legitimized. Yeah. Yeah. When I came out, there was me, there was Bailey Jays, there was your Kimber James.

There was these, there was these folks that like change people’s, not change people’s minds. They were, they were young, they were like self actuating. And they looked like, and I gotta be very careful about what I say here, but they looked like what dudes imagined, like porn ought to have been Yeah. Young, very feminine, like feminine to a point where you like kind of get confused and, and things started to change right around that time, around that 2006, 2007 era.

And it became, and, and you’d noticed that companies started to very slowly drift from using terms like she mail and tranny and, you know, all these

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): Right. Very negative, negative, negative connotations For

Speaker 2 (35m 40s): Sure. Which used to be the lay of the land. I know. Because it was always about the other. Right. The, this whole weird thing about like this niche within a niche was predicated off of selling on the novelty of the other. Right. And then about the time I started, these really hot superstars started coming in and they, it like, all of a sudden everything had to change Sure.

As far as like marketability. Yeah. Because these people command a price and they needed respect and if you didn’t respect them, you wouldn’t get ’em. Yeah. And you wouldn’t make your money. That’s right. So it’s, it’s really shitty because in a way, like just being a nice, it’s like just being nice in general, what had, what had to be predicated off of dollar value. Right. And when these people started like, you know, being self-actualized Hmm.

And the fans responded. Right.

Speaker 1 (36m 44s): The

Speaker 2 (36m 44s): Whole fucking system had to change.

Speaker 1 (36m 46s): Sure. Sure. I

Speaker 2 (36m 47s): Understand. So I started from circus show and I’m here 16 years later as Yes. Oh no, this is a, this is a viable thing and we are people Yes. And now we are just demand to be treated with respect and Well,

Speaker 1 (37m 1s): I think a lot of that, I think a lot of that you can thank Mr. Steven from Grubby for

Speaker 2 (37m 7s): Oh, well I have things to say about that. I I was, I was there at the front line. Yeah, I

Speaker 1 (37m 14s): Know. I

Speaker 2 (37m 14s): Know. Like he and I would have conversations about Sure. Hey, do we need to change the, what, what do you think of the name of the awards show? Should we change it from the trainee awards to this and that? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think we should change this name from this and that? Like, I was there right On the phone with him. Sure. You know, talking about how we make these things work. And I’ll tell you what, just to be super clear, I was still in such a way where I thought money was on the line and I actually, you know, now I know better now, but back in like, oh, I’d say it was around 2013, 2014, he’d ask me about, Hey, what do you think of tranny?

What do you think of she Yeah. And I was the kind of contrarian anger, you know. Right. Free speech, dumbass. That I’d say, I’d say, no, no, no, no. Nah man. It ain’t nothing, it ain’t nothing people ought to know better. You know, it’s just a goof. Just use these like, I was that way about it.

Speaker 1 (38m 23s): Well, times have changed. Times have Oh, times have changed. Times have definitely changed. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38m 28s): And no, no, I, once he decided to, you know, do those things right and change the names Right. It wasn’t too far after where I stopped being so money concerned and interesting, like took some time to think about exactly what the fuck it is that I was doing. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (38m 50s): Yeah. You

Speaker 2 (38m 50s): Know, of course. And what it meant to me as a person on the inside. Sure. And yeah, everything changed and I quickly acclimated to Yeah. You know, treating people with respect and not treating things like a circus show. But I was one of those people that enjoyed porn Right. As a trans person going through a lot of, you know, kind of unknown under the cover kind of transformation. Right. And being at an age where I was still so super concerned about like, jerking off.

Right. That I just accepted the names.

Speaker 1 (39m 26s): So what kind of scene have you found as your favorite type so far?

Speaker 2 (39m 31s): I don’t think there’s a type genre wise, I think that anything good that can be done is completely based off of chemistry between you and another performer. And I think everything else is like, arbitrary. So like a, a company comes to you and they say, Hey, we wanna do some kind of weird latex scene. Or a company comes to you and they say, Hey, we wanna do some kind of like oil thing, or we wanna do a fisting thing or whatever the, whatever the flavor is Hmm.

That they’re trying to like, you know, capture none of I be open to it. Hmm. But only know that any of those things will work. Right. Any any particular like grand scale flavor will work if you have chemistry with the person that you’re working with. Right. Interesting. That’s, that’s like the main thing. You gotta get along with somebody that you’re working with.

Speaker 1 (40m 30s): Okay. Who have you, who, who’s your favorite to work with? Who do you have the most chemistry with?

Speaker 2 (40m 34s): Can’t say. Can’t say. Not only one. Can I not currently like, put a name on the board. Hmm. But even, even when I retire and everything’s done. Hmm. I don’t wanna be, I don’t wanna be the kind of person that looks back and says they were, they were the guy, they were the girl that was the person, you know, I don’t wanna point pinpoint anybody because our perspectives are so different. Oh, okay. For me as a performer and from that particular person as a performer.

Speaker 1 (41m 7s): Right, right.

Speaker 2 (41m 8s): You know, I, i, it just seems like unfair and weird. The only thing that matters in this particular industry Right. Is what people are willing to pay for. And those are the only opinions that matter. If I have, here you go. If I say there’s a favorite, I don’t know, it just feels kind of gross because I know that when I pick a favorite Right. It’s kind of uninformed as to like what I’m up to at that particular point in time.

Right. I come forward with whole brand new experiences and whole brand new perspectives. Sure. And then what I would say was a favorite five years ago. Now it just becomes another goddamn human being that I need to treat with respect.

Speaker 1 (41m 55s): Absolutely. You know? Yeah. You don’t, you don’t wanna offend, you don’t wanna offend anybody. That’s for sure.

Speaker 2 (41m 59s): I can’t pick a, I, it’s, it’s, it seems kind of gross to me to pick a favorite. I’m just, okay. I’m just calm and Schmidts like anybody else’s, we’re just trying to pay the bills, man. We’re just trying to pay the bills.

Speaker 1 (42m 11s): You love that saying. So what do you love most about being in porn?

Speaker 2 (42m 16s): I mean, it’s part and parcel to the current system in which we live. Mm. I love the, the fact that I had this weird little, in that I know that I, I know I’m very privileged and I, this something kind of keeps me up at night, but I found this weird little inroad into a way to be self actualized and have everything that I need. Not what I want, but what I need at my disposal with what is seemingly little effort.

So my favorite thing and my worst thing about being in this business is that I’m, I’m literally at the top of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. You know, it’s, and for no reason. That’s fair. You know, what’s,

Speaker 1 (43m 10s): What’s fair in this world really.

Speaker 2 (43m 12s): So I, I get what I need from me, but it’s super unfair that I have this thing that not everybody has access to.

Speaker 1 (43m 22s): Well, that’s true. But like I said, what’s fair in this world. Right.

Speaker 2 (43m 27s): I guess So

Speaker 1 (43m 28s): It’s not a fair, it’s not a fair world. Well, what are your, what are your favorite fetishes, if you have any to explore on camera?

Speaker 2 (43m 37s): My very personal infant teal fetishes that work for me are shiny things. So like a lot of oil stuff. Right. Latex plays into that, that shiny thing and feet. I got this weird like foot fetish. Hmm. And there’s like, I, I could talk about that all day long. I think the first two are self-explanatory. Something shiny. Right,

Speaker 1 (44m 4s): Right.

Speaker 2 (44m 5s): Dives right into the fucking like lizard eight brain thing, you know, Hey, it draws your attention. I like it. Of course. And it’s, it also looks like smooth and that Yeah. That’s a tactile thing. So right away visually you got the smoothness and you got the thing that draws your attention. That seems like a no-brainer. But the feed thing, the feed thing is a weird thing. Right. There’s, there’s some weird psychology in there. I was just for, I mean, people are listening to this, you know?

Speaker 1 (44m 37s): Right.

Speaker 2 (44m 38s): If there are any foot fetishists or people that like are in the business that wanna investigate foot fetish, maybe this is something to remark on for like a minute and real quick psychologically. Right. I’ve done research on this because it does seem like a weird thing. It tends to be people with foot fetishes are people that largely weren’t breastfed as a kid. Hmm. Maybe they couldn’t take their mother’s milk or whatever. Interesting. So they’re put down on the ground.

And when, as you’re a super, you know, you’re a toddler, you’re a kid, you’re a baby, most kids spend time around the breasts. Huge breast fixation.

Speaker 1 (45m 19s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (45m 19s): You, you put down on the ground because you can’t accept your mother’s milk. You put down on the ground, you’re around the legs and the feet all day. And so that becomes the thing

Speaker 1 (45m 28s): Interesting

Speaker 2 (45m 29s): That’s in your head.

Speaker 1 (45m 31s): Interesting. Yeah. And that,

Speaker 2 (45m 33s): That kind of winds its way up to puberty and then that becomes a thing.

Speaker 1 (45m 37s): Yeah, that does make sense. So what single piece of advice would you give a brand new

Speaker 2 (45m 42s): Performer? That’s tough because there’s, there’s a lot that goes into it. I don’t know where the performers coming from. You know, I don’t know where their state of being is, what their mentality or emotional state is.

Speaker 1 (45m 53s): Okay. What, what piece of advice would you give, would you give young Jamie today?

Speaker 2 (45m 59s): Patience. Hmm. And I think this like covers a lot of ground. This has nothing to do, you know, in particular with being in the industry. I think this one thing, if you have like aspirations and you’re trying to like, make whatever it is to make something better of yourself, whether it’s monetary, mentally, emotionally, usually it’s all three.

Patience is the thing. Yeah. You gotta trust in yourself. You have to allow yourself to make mistakes in all aspects of life. And you have to allow for patience.

Speaker 1 (46m 43s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (46m 44s): You have to allow for patience. Nothing is gonna just like, come to you the way that you think it ought to. Yeah. There’s never gonna be a moment of truth for you while the world is watching. Hmm. You know? Sure. You have to accept the little bits of good when you get ’em. And in your downtimes, accept those moments as moments of growth if you have the wherewithal to see them as moments of growth. So it’s, it’s all about patience.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47m 15s): Very philosophical. So what do you wanna do on camera that you haven’t done yet?

Speaker 2 (47m 24s): Well, personally, at this day and age, I mean, I’ve done so much. I’ve, I’ve really, okay. This is, again, everything I say comes with a caveat. Right. I, I don’t like to think of this business as a thing that is meant for me to get my rocks off because that can become exploitative.

It can become predatory. It can show like the worst of yourself.

Speaker 1 (48m 0s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (48m 2s): What I, what I mean as there are things that I want to do as a person, but most of those things can be taken care of by just like jerking off or being with like a trusted partner. Sure. I never want to use this industry and be in this business as a thing that I get to use to get my rocks off because this is a business

Speaker 1 (48m 28s): Of

Speaker 2 (48m 29s): Course, you know, we don’t put anybody at odds and fuck off anybody that we’re performing with or working with in Right. Any way whatsoever. Just so that we can get our rocks off. That’s a bad way to be.

Speaker 1 (48m 43s): Yeah. It’s

Speaker 2 (48m 45s): Very true. When I’m, when I’m making my own content as an independent, I will simply say, I would like to do this. I think this would sell. I think this plays into my, you know, my interest. And I will take the time to find somebody that is amenable to that, that also has that same kind of flavor and gumption in mind. And then I will pay them a fair wage in order to do that so that everything is fair and everything is honky dory across the board.

Sure. But I never want to do anything. I don’t have a, a checklist of, oh, I wanna fuck this chick. You know? Oh, I wanna, oh, I just wanna like fist that person. Like, Ugh, gross. Fuck that. Fuck that. This isn’t for me. Right. This is a business, this is for the

Speaker 1 (49m 42s): Customers. Right. Well, it’s for your fans. It’s really for your fans. That’s what it comes down to. Because if they’re happy, then the cash register rings. So what’s coming up for you?

Speaker 2 (49m 54s): Oh, so many things as of today, you know, I have no idea what the future brings, but as of today, right where I stand, as of the data, this interview right now, my mindset is on a lot of creativity that has nothing to do with the business in and of itself, which, which is to say that I have goals and I’m making enough money to do things that are concerned with music and script writing and all kinds of things, all kinds of of cards that I really need to play like close to my chest.

Right. Business wise, it’s, it’s really kind of simple. I’m kind of in a small state of like, just taking a step back. I spent a lot of plates in this industry and being in front of the camera is like the least of my concerns right now. I’m an editor, I’m a graphic designer. I do, I do all kinds of things through my production company. Sure. You know, put people in front of my camera for different companies.

Right. All kinds of things. Money’s not a concern. Right. I, I, I make the money and I’m at a point right now creatively for things that have been back in my past. Right. That are now coming to fruition that actually need all of my attention. Right. And I’m at a point now where I’ve made enough money to where I can put that money and put that capital to those things so I’m not retired or anything. Not right.

Not by the least. Right. It’s just right now I am concerned with those things and I, future-wise, if you need like a, oh, here’s the next Jamie Kelly Bencher. I’d say that the next big thing that is coming is part of this lay of the land that I find myself in right now is the third part of the transsexuals series.

But that’s probably gonna be, oh, anywhere from six months to a year off from now.

Speaker 1 (52m 6s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (52m 7s): And that, that would be like the next big thing. Anything else that I do is gonna be like weird little things that I pick up while I’m on this personal venture. Right, right. Maybe the studio gig here and there maybe some solo things, right. That are very carefully chosen. But yeah, the like the next big thing would probably be that the Transsexuals three

Speaker 1 (52m 29s): Sounds good. We’ll be looking for it. Well Jamie, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Side Broker Talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (52m 39s): Oh, absolutely. This has been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (52m 43s): Pleasure is all mine. My broker tip today is part seven of How to Buy an Adult website. Last week we talked about the agreement and escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owner’s participation will be after the sale. You’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things.

If you don’t have experience in these areas, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult Business Consulting. You can get more information on what this company does@adultbusinessconsulting.com. We help website owners, project manage and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting payments, production scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help. Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website.

If you don’t have someone like our general consulting company to help evaluate all of those items and everything the site is spending money on and using to operate the website. Make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better. Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service. Many times the server is just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our site.

Next week we’ll talk about how to sell a website, and next week we’ll be speaking with Paige from Pyper. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Jamie Kelly. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Todd Spaits of Yanks Cash. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a streaming network of sites for independent performers. Most of the traffic comes from North America. It’s the Shopify of streaming video and offers turnkey streaming sites to content creators. Creators provide some information about their brand, choose a look and feel, upload their images and videos, and they launch their streaming site on the domain of their choice in minutes.

The platform provides everything creators need from customer support to payment processing, so creators can focus on managing their content and marketing their site. The platform can also generate revenue from ads on free content, as well as subscriptions to premium content. The platform uses AWS Cloud technology to stream live and on-demand content around the world. The sale also includes a mainstream platform. The content is sold on a monthly subscription basis.

The code was developed in-house by their team of engineers. This is a great opportunity to enter the exciting world of live streaming video For a modest cost. Platforms like this cost a lot more to build from scratch, only $540,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Like Broker Talk is Todd Spades of Yanks Cash. Todd, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 54s): You’re welcome. Looking, look, I’m happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (2m 56s): Happy to have you. It’s been a bit of time that it took to get you on, but I guess cross continent move Will will cause some delays.

Speaker 2 (3m 5s): Yeah, yeah. We just, Billy and I just relocated from, from Arizona to Valencia, Spain. The process was about four months with getting furniture, you know, shipped over and, and it was just, it was, it was an ordeal. But now we are fully moved in and it’s, it’s great.

Speaker 1 (3m 21s): It’s awesome. Now Todd is a 20 year veteran of the industry, co-founder of Yanks Cash and it’s flagship site yanks.com. Todd holds an MBA from the University of Washington, not too many MBAs in our industry. He’s an award-winning, classically trained French chef, and he’s the author of the Soon to be published book, American Orgasm. The True Story of an Ethical Pornographer Yanks Cash and its flagship site. yanks.com was founded in 2002 in San Diego on the idea that solo girl and girl girl porn could be different.

A yank shoot is less scripted, safer, and focused on the sexual pleasure of the creators for the ultimate pleasure of the viewer. Makes sense. This has been accomplished by pioneering 20 years ago. Many of the creator centric policies that are commonplace today, a yank shoot isn’t the direction of a sexual interaction. It’s always been a collaboration between their site and the model to create a sexual experience to be shared with their members. On the business side, yanks Cash has a bulletproof reputation and has always been a leader in pushing for a safer, more ethical industry.

So, Todd, let’s talk some more about your move going from Arizona to Valencia, Spain. That’s, that’s pretty amazing.

Speaker 2 (4m 38s): Yeah. Thanks. So we, we had lived in Valencia from 2014 to 2018, and then we, we left to go, Billy and I both left to go to cooking school in Paris and we both went to Lacoon Blue. Yeah. Came back to, we actually decided to move from Spain back to the States in early 2020 and hit Hit Covid. Right, right. Smack in the middle of our move.

Speaker 1 (5m 5s): Welcome home.

Speaker 2 (5m 6s): We were, oh yeah. So we were actually, well we actually got stuck in the uk. We were supposed to take the Queen Mary two, queen Mary two, no, queen Elizabeth two, I believe QE two across from South Hampton to New York. But it got canceled because of Covid. Right. We were doing that cuz we had our, have our dog with us. Oh yeah. And so we just got stuck in the UK for, for six months when our Visa ran out there. We drove from, from Oxford to Naxos in Greece, drove and took ferries. Kind of hit out there for three months.

Then Covid still wasn’t letting up during the summer. Then we drove from Naxos, Greece to Scotland. Edinburg were there another four months before we could eventually get back to the States.

Speaker 1 (5m 47s): Geez.

Speaker 2 (5m 48s): And so yeah, it was, it’s, it’s been the last three years have been quite a, a journey

Speaker 1 (5m 53s): For everybody I think. So tell us how you got started in the industry.

Speaker 2 (5m 57s): Billy and I, she’s my partner who, who most people in the industry know of. She doesn’t go to a ton of shows, but you know, she used to, we were living in San Diego in, in 2000, 2001, 2002. And we were both bartending at a place called On Broadway Event Center, which was really one of the, the, the biggest and most popular nightclubs in, in all of Southern California at the time. Hmm. And we were just looking for something to do. I mean, we were working two days a week making, you know, killer money. And I’ve always had this idea of, you know, the internet, you know, which was still fairly new and porn is just a, a great way to make money.

Absolutely. So one day I kind of pulled her aside and I said, Hey, I’ve got this idea. And the idea was essentially I used to watch Ed Power’s videos and I love Ed and I, I love the way he did things by doing an interview and talking to the girls. And he sort, he sort of had a really good rapport with them. And then, you know, then the difference between Ed Power’s videos is then he’d eventually get on the bed with kind of, he’d have his just black socks on and he’d have sex with a girl. And that kind of ruined it for me. But I really liked, yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 2s): Was it him or the Black Socks? It

Speaker 2 (7m 4s): Was, I’d say both, but yeah, the, the kinda pale white skin and the black socks were a bit much. And I met Ed, he’s a really nice guy, so, you know. Yeah. No offense to him, but, You know, but I loved, I loved the way he did it where, you know, he, he just built this rapport with the girls and he’d usually have them start out masturbating and they seem to be really comfortable and they seem to be actually enjoying themselves before he kind of jump on the bed. Now, I don’t blame him for doing that cause he’s, you know, a hot girl. They’re masturbating. So he’s, it’s it’s master genre, but I just thought that, you know, hey, if you just were able to build that kind of rapport with the girl and then let them do that and just record it without a lot of direction and just kinda let that play out, it’d be content that people would really like.

So I ran that idea by Billy and she pretty much was like, do you think it’ll work and make money? And I’m like, yep, I do. And so we really just jumped in. We didn’t have tech, you know, we’re not from a technical background. We, you know, I’m not a programmer developer, I’m not a photographer, a videographer. I didn’t have that background either.

Speaker 1 (8m 6s): That makes, that makes two of us.

Speaker 2 (8m 8s): Yeah. So we just, we just jumped in, bought a camera, bought a video camera, still camera figured out lighting, figured out audio, figured out how to build webpages. We, you know, didn’t have a lot of money. So we built our actual, you know, our editing machine from scratch. Just going to Fry’s electronic store in Southern California and just putting together the computers and just did everything from the ground up.

Speaker 1 (8m 32s): Wow. It’s been quite a success story. Yanks cash, I mean, to, to be around as long as you guys have, that’s gotta be very gratifying.

Speaker 2 (8m 43s): Yeah, it’s, it’s been an interesting ride because, you know, in a lot of ways, you know, when we started we had a, a great following, but it was kind of niche, but the dedication to it was really was, was, I mean, people were very dedicated to the content and we had a lot of fans. Right. You know, at the same time we weren’t really, we were never really the flavor of the month. I mean, we weren’t, you know, we didn’t have a Tawny stone like light speed did, you know, and Silver Cash and Top Cash and, and all these big massive programs.

Yeah. That kind of came along. We started in 2002 and a lot of those programs are just just two years ahead of us. And, you know, that two years combined with them kind of pursuing a little bit more mainstream porn with lesbian and teen and things of that nature, they got a little bit ahead of us. Sure. But what’s kind of nice is, I think that just the dedication we’ve had from our fans for so long, we were able to just, just keep going and, and, and, and even, you know, when the industry’s had its ups and downs that dedication of our fans has, has kept us going.

Speaker 1 (9m 45s): Right. Well you mentioned those other programs. I mean, I don’t think any of those are still around and you are

Speaker 2 (9m 52s): Oh, no. No. And I mean, you know, they all did well and I think when

Speaker 1 (9m 55s): Their day Right

Speaker 2 (9m 57s): Hit and, and porn, you know, PornHub came along, I think a lot of those guys were able to just take their cash and run. And so Sure. You know, it’s definitely impressive. Right. But yeah, I mean, there is some gratification in still being here and still being, you know, one of the few pay sites that go to shows. And that’s a, that’s a, that’s a market that seems to be really coming back though lately, which is nice. But yeah, it’s very gratifying.

Speaker 1 (10m 21s): So in your mind, do you think content is king or is Traffic king?

Speaker 2 (10m 26s): I always look at it two ways. I mean, you know, they obviously, it’s, it’s a chicken and egg situation cuz they kind of rely on each other of course. But, you know, the way I kind of think about it is, you know, if, if, if you’re going to a location something, if you’re going to out to eat to a really great restaurant, you need to drive to get there. So, you know, the road is, is the traffic and the, and the, the content is the food you eat there. You know, when it’s all said and done though, you remember the meal you had, you don’t remember the drive there. The drive there is necessary and traffic’s necessary. But I, I do think content is king.

And I always think that the state of the industry can really kind, kind of boils down to that. I mean, when traffic is prioritized, when you go to a show and it’s just, you know, a thousand companies cycling around the same traffic. The the, the industry is really not in a good state. It’s just, it’s, it’s kind of a bullshit. It’s not a bullshit tactic, but it’s just, just a, it’s just the industry’s not in a very healthy state. But when content really becomes the focus again and, and the quality of the content and the resolution of the content and, you know, the creators and the models are being comp compensated.

Well I think that’s, that’s a healthy industry. So I, you know, that’s where I really just lean towards making, you know, content and priority.

Speaker 1 (11m 38s): What would it take to make the industry healthier? Because you said the content should be the priority and I agree. I mean, if you’re not doing something different, if you’re not doing something that people want, then they’re just gonna go to the tubes and get free porn.

Speaker 2 (11m 56s): I mean, the, the, the first thing I always really lean hard into is, is, is leadership in this industry and, and really the lack of leadership. I did a lot of research in a lot of interviews for my book, and one of the things I always asked people was, you know, when you’ve been involved in other industry, while obviously the bottom line is important in making money, I I always ask them if these other industries that they’ve been involved in were the same way in prioritizing the health of their industry and thinking long term.

And almost, and without exception, they’ve always said, yeah. You know, like I was, I was from the restaurant industry or I was from this, you know, manufacturing or something. And while the bottom line was always important, the company I worked for always contributed to the industry in a way that, that the industry was thinking long term and its own health and, and 10 years and 20 years down the line. Right. And that, that always takes leadership, you know, so while, you know, I look at this industry right now and the three, probably the, you know, the, the tubes being, you know, the mind MindGeek and Xvideos and X hamster.

Right. Which I work with all of them. And I think they’re coming around, they’re still not, they’re still not stepping up to the plate in a big way as leaders. I mean, for one, I’ve never, and maybe this has happened, but I’ve never seen the CEO or the, the operations officer or or representative from each of those companies on one panel in Vegas or in LA or somewhere.

Speaker 1 (13m 19s): Interesting. You’re

Speaker 2 (13m 19s): Right. Taking questions and just talking. Yeah. And that to me is, that’s obscene. I mean, that’s, that’s really bizarre to me that three players can’t be in the same room and just talk about the state of the industry.

Speaker 1 (13m 29s): Yeah. I get, I mean, XN and xx, I don’t see them at all Yeah. Nor any of their people. You see people from MindGeek from time to time and you, you certainly see people from Gamma. But as far as, and, and you do see people from X hamster, I will say that, and the c e o from X hamster does go to shows in Europe.

Speaker 2 (13m 53s): Like I said, I work with all them. And I think I, I, I really, I love X hamster. I’ve, I’ve got a really good rep now at each three, at each of the three companies, and I talk to them weekly and they are coming around, but they’re also seem seemingly a little bit scared of, you know, of just being out in front and they shouldn’t be, you know, they, they should be a little more vocal. Right. You know, they should get in the same room together and, and talk about some stuff. You know,

Speaker 1 (14m 19s): I think that would be great. It’s something that maybe we should call for. Hopefully they’re listening.

Speaker 2 (14m 25s): We should, yeah. I mean, I, I would, I would love that. I mean, I think that would be the most amazing panel at any of the shows or all the shows. If one representative from all three of ’em sat, you know, in front of, in front of the, the industry and allowed some questions and, and you know, they even, you know, came up with some guidelines. I mean, because Right. You know, obviously when you look at the tra the trajectory of the tubes, you know, they, they acquired a lot of content and they were able to give that away for free.

And in the process they destroyed their own supply chain by putting it, putting so many pay sites out of business. And then what happened is the, the content that was just buried in there was very problematic. Which I think the entire industry always knew. And now they’re really all, you know, doing a hard pivot back to, you know, Hey holy cow, like you guys make good content, help us. You know, and they aren’t. We are. But it’s still, I think the, I think the messaging is still a bit strained and the leadership’s still a bit weak.

It’s true through,

Speaker 1 (15m 32s): So you’re on a lot of state-of-the industry panels. Gimme a couple words on how you describe the state of the industry.

Speaker 2 (15m 38s): Well, I mean, so I already kind of touched on some of that, but, you know, I always look, I always try to boil, boil some things down. And, and one of the way, so whenever I do the state of the industry panel and I like moderating them because it allows me to, I like being on panels cuz it allows me to answer questions that obviously self-promote Yanks, but that also just self-promote my ethics and my vision of the industry. Right. Moderate a panel, it’s even better because I can create the questions and then, you know, put, put my sort of vision in front of others to comment on or, or, or, you know, pivot on.

So whenever I do a state of the industry, I sort of open with the same statement. And that statement is that if you really boil down this, this transaction, it’s, it’s essentially, you know, a person, man, woman taking, you know, an erotic photo of another person and then selling it to a third party. You know, the, the, the model can take a selfie and do it. A series of, of photos is a video, whether it’s live or streaming. Like that’s, that’s just the basic, you know, transaction. That’s the core transaction.

And so if you look at the health of that core transaction, it, it, it’s, it just says everything you need to know about the industry. I mean, if Yep. If somebody can do that successfully and pay their bills and do well and they’re motivated, they’re making enough profit to be be motivated by that process, then the state of the industry is good. When that cord transaction is threatened, then the state of the industry is, is is poor. And so that’s what I always think is, you know, if I, if I got X hamster X videos and, and MindGeek in a room together in front of the industry, that’s what that, that’s what my first question would be is like, you know, what are the guidelines that you three can all agree on that you could lead to pro protect that core transaction and look at the players out there who are not protecting that core transaction.

And, and let’s make sure we’re, we’re calling them out and we’re cutting off the, the supply of, of money, you know, holding them to a set of core values that this industry can agree on.

Speaker 1 (17m 39s): Yeah. So along with that new, you’re often preaching about ethics in our industry. How should we become more ethical?

Speaker 2 (17m 48s): I mean, I, I think it’s, I think it’s a lot of like, you know, know your customer. I go back and forth on, on just like naming names, but you know, I look at some of the bigger link lists out there, something like the porn dude. And you look at that site and what you see is hundreds of companies that have won awards from why not from ex biz, from avn. And then listed on those pages are also File Lockers and Torrance and tubes that, that are just steel content from creators and from pay sites.

And so a simple, a simple knowing your customer, you know, that guy gets paid through affiliates, you know, he gets paid by promoting cams. If you’re a cam company, a stream aid and a chatter bait, you shouldn’t be subsidizing a list like that if it’s also linking to other sites that are, that are helping,

Speaker 1 (18m 38s): That are thiefs Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): People to steal from your other clients. Sure. I think one of the things that, that I, I do preach and sometimes people get frustrated, but a lot of, one of my biggest pet peeves is I think that people tend to think that because I preach or because I’m ethical, that I’m naive and I understand that there’s money involved and I understand the SEO aspects and I understand all that, but it’s money, but it’s just about who gets the money. Yeah. Nobody that gets in their computer to, to kind of rub one out and goes to a, like the porn dude, if he’s not there anymore, that guy’s not putting his dick away and going to the gym, you know, he’s just gonna find something else.

Of course. Yeah. So I mean, if this industry rooted out the people that were making the money that shouldn’t be and just directed it to the right hands. It’s the same amount of money. It’s just who gets it.

Speaker 1 (19m 26s): And it’s not that, and it’s not just review sites. Okay. There are traffic companies that buy and sell traffic from people who steal content.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (19m 41s): And that to me, that’s not okay. And those people should be called out.

Speaker 2 (19m 46s): Yeah. I mean, and the traffic, and that’s the thing is the traffic from those companies will, it’ll just exist somewhere else. I mean, that’s, that’s the thing. It’s the traffic. It’s, it’s not, it’s just not gonna go away because it’s, I mean, it, it’s sex. I mean, you know, sex, I mean, people are gonna, you know, if if somebody wants to get a beer, they’re gonna get a beer if there’s, there’s bars available. I mean, you just gotta make sure the right people own them, you know? Right.

Speaker 1 (20m 12s): Sure. So what do you believe the biggest challenge is facing our industry?

Speaker 2 (20m 16s): I mean, it’s just, it’s just leadership. You know. I know, I know so many people that I, that I would say are just really good people in this, in this industry, but they don’t have a lot of power individually and we can never seem to get together to get enough power collectively. So I think it’s leadership and it’s, it just, it shocked to me really in the 20 years that I’ve been in this business that I can’t remember one single person that has really, really stepped up with power to, to be like, you know, let’s, let’s do some good things.

Not one, I mean, not one. I think, you know, when I look back when I started, why not? Bob was a, was a really good friend to me.

Speaker 1 (20m 54s): Me too. And

Speaker 2 (20m 55s): Yeah. And he, he sort of seemed to, you know, and he was an ethical guy. Right. And he seemed to be able to have that kind of presence for a while. But then I think, you know, he kind of fell out, you know, but somebody like that and, and you know, and again, he didn’t have enough power and enough traffic at that time, even then. No,

Speaker 1 (21m 13s): That’s true.

Speaker 2 (21m 14s): But you know, I think, I think he was an in, so somebody like that, I think with a, with a real presence is, is would be really nice to see. And so I think leadership is the, the biggest thing this industry really needs.

Speaker 1 (21m 23s): Oh, maybe it needs to be you.

Speaker 2 (21m 25s): I mean I I I would love to be that the, you know, again, the, the challenge there is is that, you know, I I think you really, you know, you need some power behind it and power is kind of money. Well, I mean, well, but

Speaker 1 (21m 38s): Right, right. You, you look at all the things the, the Free Speech Coalition does. Maybe that’s something they should take on.

Speaker 2 (21m 45s): Yeah. But, you know, and, and, and those organizations are great too. But the challenge is, is that, you know, they do, they do tend to have very, you know, high level sponsors and then they’re kind of limited to how they can criticize them. I criticize some of the bigger players in this industry because I’d like to see ’em do more, but I don’t, I don’t think we need to go after them. I just think, I just think there needs to be pressure for them to be the best they can be better, you know? So I think those bigger organizations do rely on so much funding from those big players that they do have to back off with any criticism.

That’s

Speaker 1 (22m 17s): Very true. Because they, they survive on sponsorships.

Speaker 2 (22m 20s): Yeah, they do. They do.

Speaker 1 (22m 23s): So you’ve been at this a while, obviously. Who are three people in the industry you respect? Well, besides myself, of course,

Speaker 2 (22m 33s): You know, a a couple of, so, so there’s three people that I’ve, I’ve had really great conversations with and it’s Steve, Steve from Grubby, who I just think is he, he’s just a really standup guy. I love him. Agreed. Sam Murkowski’s a really good friend from Mr. Skin. And Yep. I just, I really respect the way he does things. You know, kind of coming back onto the scene a bit, cuz he owns cream pie.com now is Chap Sean.

Speaker 1 (22m 58s): Oh

Speaker 2 (22m 58s): Yeah. He’s a really interesting and good person. I’ve spent a number of hours with him on the phone just talking and riffing, going back and forth. Good guy.

Speaker 1 (23m 6s): I would agree wholeheartedly on those three, those are, are three of the best people in the industry. There’s no two ways about it. So now you recently wrote a book, as we mentioned, at the Top American Orgasm, the Story of an Ethical Pornographer. Why don’t you tell us about the journey and what prompted you to write a book?

Speaker 2 (23m 25s): So I’m, you know, it’s not published. I hope to get it published this year. The book’s written and I’m just involved in rewrites this year was a little, a little tough cuz I lost my younger brother. Oh. To an addiction. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate that. And so it was just, I, I really got off of writing and it’s, it’s, I can write through a lot of different things, but I found myself really with a lot of lack of creativity when it comes to rewrites. Cuz it’s just, the rewrites are kind of brutal.

It’s just, just tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. So I hope to have that out this year. But kind of what prompted me to write it is, is really just looking at the role that Yanks Cash played is is that it, you know, we were never really the flavor of the month, but we, we had, we, we, we have and have, have now a nice amount of success. And so we were sort of like, you know, we were, we were in the industry. We grew, you know, very organically like so many companies and we had a, I think a really a good view of that.

So Sure. I wanted to write a book that wasn’t just about the parties, cuz I’ve, I’ve read some accounts of, of the adult industry, you know, online and, and you know, they, they tend to really just talk about the shows and then it’s like, while it’s fun, I mean the shows are a blast when every story’s sort of like, you know, oh, I met so-and-so we did a ton of cocaine, we fucked these chicks and, and then, you know, we slept and then did it again. Boring. Yeah. It’s a great story. But once it’s 5, 6, 7 times you’re like, okay, cool. Like, that’s cool for you, but it’s not that interesting, You know, so what I wanted to just really write about was the experience of even our first day of interviews where we just put ads in the San Diego paper for girls to come by, you know, at this, this Embassy Suites lobby in downtown San Diego.

Right. Billy and I went and we had no experience with, with cameras, videos, still tech anything. And just seeing the girls that showed up and asked them why they were there and just figuring it all out. And so, right. I think the account of how that was nearly two thousands and, and what it’s like to, you know, do your first porn shoot just grow in the industry. I thought that would be very interesting to people. You know, one of my role models is Anthony Bourdain and I thought that that Yanks had this similarity.

Speaker 1 (25m 49s): I bet. As a, I bet as a chef, he must be. My god.

Speaker 2 (25m 52s): Oh yeah. I mean I, I I really connect with him in, in terms of the travel. I love to travel and I, I travel a lot and the chef, you know, being a chef and, and, and that’s why, you know, I love to write, I love his style, you know, and I think what, what I kind of shared the, the book that I’m writing, I want it to be kind of regarded in that way. And I, thinky Bourdain was interesting because while he was a good chef and was successful, he also wasn’t like a celebrity chef. So Right. He was very much like in that yanks where he could look, look he was in the middle, you know, he was sort of witnessing the restaurant industry and wrote the real story of it.

Whereas I’ve, I kind of feel like that’s a weep been witnessing the adult industry without being on top of it necessarily. But certainly not being at the bottom of it either. You know, a really good whole experience.

Speaker 1 (26m 41s): Yeah. I really miss the, I really miss the, the guy, it was really tragic that he took his own life. It was shocked everybody, I think. And God, I used to love his show. His show was amazing, just amazing. I, and he had, and he had so much more to give, you know?

Speaker 2 (26m 58s): I know. And you know, it’s the sad, it’s the saddest thing how it’s just, with something like that, it’s a moment of sadness where he just wasn’t in the right spot and, and there wasn’t somebody by him and, you know. Yeah. Because man, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27m 11s): So growing up, so living in San Diego all those years, you and you and Bob were neighbors.

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): Oh yeah. Like, I mean it was, it was really bizarre because he, he literally lived like, I think two and a half miles from me. Wow. You know, and when we started in the industry, I didn’t know, you know, that’s another thing too, like I, you know, wrote about this period where we started the industry and we didn’t know anybody. Like we didn’t know anybody. Yeah. Yeah. And eventually this one guy, you know, this, this one person we had that we were, it was kind of helping us out with some things. Like, well, you gotta meet, why not Bob? Like, you know, he is the industry. And I’m like,

Speaker 1 (27m 46s): He sure was. He sure was. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27m 48s): Yeah. And so, so I finally actually met him at a, at the Why Not show in Mexico. And yeah. We became good friends and he, he’d do his Did

Speaker 1 (27m 58s): We, did you and I go to one of those at the same time? I think we did. Cause I went to two or three of them.

Speaker 2 (28m 2s): I, yeah, I it must so

Speaker 1 (28m 4s): Cause I think so yeah. Those first,

Speaker 2 (28m 7s): Those

Speaker 1 (28m 7s): Were, those are just crazy. I remember, oh yeah, I remember the first one I went to. We were drinking tequila on the bus on the way down from the airport. And I remember laying back on the bed of a, on the bed of a pickup truck and falling asleep and them having to wake me up because they were gonna leave. And on that, on that one I roomed with, with Alex Raelian.

Speaker 2 (28m 31s): Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 32s): Oh my God. There wasn’t a sober moment. Not a sober moment. In fact, I need to get that dude on the podcast. He’s been around. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28m 40s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 41s): But Bob, no, Bob was a mentor. Yeah. Bob was a mentor for me too. And he was the first person I actually met in the industry cuz I had bought his audio program. Maybe it was a video program, I don’t remember about starting sites. And of course I had already fucked everything up by the time I got it. But that’s, that’s another story. I was a terrible, terrible site owner. But I, I remember Bob, my first show was Vegas and Bob was with, with Doug Wicks and when he was with Cece Bill.

And it was like, Bob says, well meet us in the bar over at Circus Circus. So actually Doug was the first one I met cuz Bob wasn’t there yet. But then Bob showed up and I’m, I’m probably one of the few people in the industry that’s still in touch with Bob, so,

Speaker 2 (29m 32s): Oh, are you? Yeah, I, I, I lost touch with him.

Speaker 1 (29m 35s): Oh, I can give you, I can give you his information. No problem. You know, he is in the insurance business now, right?

Speaker 2 (29m 40s): Yeah, I thought so. He’s living, living in Florida, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And he was, I mean, it was funny cuz we used to, when he was drinking, I, you know, I think he quit now. But yeah, we, you know, after the Hump Day radio show, we’d, I’d meet him at his local bar and I mean, we would just get hammered and then play Call of Duty on the why not servers, which was really fun.

Speaker 1 (30m 3s): So now you’re probably the only award-winning classically trained fresh French. I’m gonna get that right. Chef in the industry. So tell us a little bit about that accomplishment.

Speaker 2 (30m 15s): I, I think so. I mean, maybe, you know, I, maybe I I told you that so I hope I’m not wrong. But yeah, so, you know, in, in, in 2018 we kind of took a little bit of a break from the sites and I wanted to write the book. And then also it was my dream to go to, to cooking school. And so I wanted to go to Lako Bleu, you know, in Paris. And to me that was, that was just the dream to do. Sure. And Billy who’s, who’s, she doesn’t really like to cook that much, but she’s like, you know, I think I’d like to do something completely challenging like this.

So she enrolled in the patisserie diploma program and I did the, did the cuisine. So on the savory side, and it’s a nine month program Right. You know, pretty intense. 30, 35 hours a week with really some of the best chefs in the world. Yeah. And I mean, it was just, you know, so we were in Paris for a full year. I did a three month internship at a Michelin Star Steakhouse in Paris. Wow. And it was just, it was just an absolutely, you know, incredible experience.

And yeah, I had the opportunity there, there was a mystery box style three day cooking contest that was Versai and I had entered and I won over three days, which kinda surprised me, but it was sort of a French Caribbean cooking contest Interesting. And getting

Speaker 1 (31m 41s): Hungry

Speaker 2 (31m 42s): Trophy about that. Yeah. So, yeah, that was just, it was just an amazing experience. And it’s actually something that probably I’m, I, I’m, I’m thinking about, and now that I’m settled here, that at the next, one of the next up and coming Tess, not the Lisbon one, cause I couldn’t get it in in time, but I think I wanted to start doing kind of a chef’s table at the shows.

Speaker 1 (32m 3s): Oh, that’s cool. You’re gonna be, you’re gonna be in Lisbon, right?

Speaker 2 (32m 6s): Yeah, I’ll be in Lisbon. I’ll

Speaker 1 (32m 8s): Be in Lisbon. Good. Yeah. Good. You’ll you don’t, you don’t, oh yeah. You don’t have too far to come. Just for the, for the sake of a disclaimer, this might not run before that, but, but will have had a really good time. You know what really bums me out, another thing about the pandemic that bums me out. I wanted to come taste your cooking, but with the pandemic and everything, by the time I got there, I missed you. Which really bumed me out. So. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32m 33s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32m 35s): So back to the business, do you see pay sites trending up or trending down?

Speaker 2 (32m 40s): I, I mean, I definitely see them, them trending up. I mean, you know, I think, I think the power dynamics has shifted to creators. You’ve got all the girls that are, you know, and only fans. But I also believe that, you know, it’s necessary to have brands involved, brands like Yanks and, and other pay sites Yep. In that mix in some way. And that, that may, that I think that there’s gonna be an evolution into what a pay site is, and there’s going to be other products coming along. Interesting. But I believe that brands like Yanks are going to play a big role in it.

So I, I believe that the pay site being just where you would find our presence, the, you know, the most concentrated will still exist. And you know, and I believe that has to do with the fact that the tubes now realize that they can’t kill their supply chain and True. And, you know, they’re all, you know, very quickly shifting towards, you know, premium models and, and pay-per-view and many memberships and their sites, you know, as opposed to free content that they can’t control. So, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s the other thing too is I think that, I think that the tube sites are recognizing the value of the fact that when you have, you know, they can’t be the gatekeepers of a hundred million videos, you know?

Right. Because, because the bad MasterCard,

Speaker 1 (33m 56s): Master MasterCard and Visa told ’em that.

Speaker 2 (33m 58s): Well yeah. And they should have known that. I mean, that’s, that’s the thing

Speaker 1 (34m 2s): Industry Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (34m 2s): Absolutely. This industry should have known that, you know, no matter, I mean, those companies aren’t big enough to be the gatekeepers of a hundred million videos. And so that stuff’s gonna slip in. And so the best way to do that is to, you know, establish pay site owners and content producers and creators is as the gateway that that gives them the content that they can trust.

Speaker 1 (34m 22s): Right.

Speaker 2 (34m 23s): You know, and this, and this is, you know, that’s, that’s a leadership issue is that, you know, I see a lot of people that bitch about, you know, the New York Times writer exposing PornHub. And, and while I certainly don’t, you know, like, like I said, I work with PornHub. I, I wouldn’t want them to hear this and be like, oh, you know, let’s not work with Todd anymore and gangs. But, you know, I mean, I don’t know that what what thing in your time is exposed was something this whole industry knew for a decade. You know, it’s just not shocking. And, and so we had ample opportunity to fix that and we didn’t. And they didn’t.

Right. And so that’s what happens. So now do we fix the next things that we know about?

Speaker 1 (34m 58s): Right. Like age, like age verification. Yeah. And I, I felt for a long time that the adult industry should come up as a whole with an age verification method that everybody accepts. If they do that, then governments aren’t going to tell them what to do.

Speaker 2 (35m 16s): Yeah. I mean, the more self-regulation we can do, or at least, you know, and that’s it, it’s like, you know, again, it’s like, oh, you know, the, the New York Times are, they’re, you know, hunting and they’re, they’re after us and, and, and the Christian right. Is after us. Well,

Speaker 1 (35m 29s): They kind of, they kind of are, but

Speaker 2 (35m 30s): They, they are for sure. But we, we give them, we make ourselves open to it, you know, and so, no, you’re right. You know exactly what he, he said like, do something where, whether it’s age verification or just really self-police so that you can stand up and be like, Hey, we’re, you know, we’re doing more than, than other industries are. And, and Right. And we’re not.

Speaker 1 (35m 48s): Well we certainly, you know, through a S A C P we do a lot, you know Yeah. For the, for protection of children. But you’re right, we, we could certainly do more. So how do you view that con that di that power dynamic in terms of content creators? Do you, I mean, content creators certainly have the power at this point, wouldn’t you say?

Speaker 2 (36m 11s): I think so. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s something that I, it’s really interesting because a number of years ago I tried to launch a program where, you know, models could submit their videos to Yanks and we’d, you know, we had a s like a, a very short checklist of what they needed to do to submit their videos. We’d set up a profile page on Yanks, we would pay them a little less because they didn’t have to travel or anything, and they’d do it at home. So the quality wasn’t quite there and it really just never took off. But it, it didn’t really work because at the time there were some people that, you know, didn’t have a good camera.

Their smartphone was older and it just didn’t capture, you know, good camera or a good quality content. Right. But now that, that’s possible. And so I think the creators, you know, they’ve realized that they can make money on their own mostly. I think a lot of those girls too, also I see a lot of girls with, with pay sites as well. We have, we have creators writing us all the time now that they just want to give us content to put on Yanks so that I can send traffic from our members area back out to their only fans and back out to their page and, and their model Sure.

And all that. And so it’s, it, it, it’s really nice that they now, it’s not just about the money, it’s about them kind of taking control and ownership of the traffic as well. Sure. Where I think brands come into it though, as well is that, you know, to be a creator, the barriers to entry are very low. Yeah. And models do float in and out of the industry. I mean, a girl come in, she’ll make a little money, then she’ll leave. So there’s not a lot of stability to that. And it’s, it’s, it’s a, a lot of churn. And so I think that’s where brands really can, can help in paint, in, in providing the stability between the distribution channels, like the tubes and the churn of, of the creators themselves.

Speaker 1 (37m 59s): Sure. Now, what do you believe the future holds for VR and ar?

Speaker 2 (38m 3s): Yeah, so it’s, it’s interesting because we’re, we are now, and I don’t know what programs will be launched by the time this airs or not, but we’re working on a creator platform for Yanks, not a platform, but a creator platform within Yanks. Not the same as an only fans, just more of a, more of a, a method for the girls to get, you know, traffic from our members area and to be profiled on Yanks. So it’s, it’s more of a, more of a, I guess, an advertising and a brand awareness for them through Yanks.

Sure. Sure. That’s gonna be, be launched. And then I think where we’re actually gonna create our own content in-house is gonna be just purely VR and vrs Interesting. Because I think that a lot of the industry doesn’t, you know, they’re like, okay, vrs dead. And they say that vrs dead just because it didn’t, it didn’t blow up the way everything does. And I think in this industry, if something doesn’t go from zero to a thousand in two days, it shit. Right. You know? Sure. But you know, when I look at my VR content, if I, you know, when I look at the, the places where I’m selling like Pay-per-View and different v o D platforms, a VR video makes on average five to six times what a Yanks flat video does or a Yanks tv.

Wow. I mean, so, and once you, once you make the initial investment of the camera, which is not that big of a deal and you know, have an editor, the cost of producing the VR versus the, the 2D isn’t really that big of a deal. Sure. So, you know, and I love, you know, especially because Yanks, cuz it’s it’s girl Girl and it’s solo girl, it’s pretty easy to capture it well in vr. Right. So, I mean that’s where, that’s where our focus is. And I think that it’s gonna just slowly build, obviously VR and AR will go somewhere at some point, whether it’s, sure.

I don’t think it’s necessarily Zuckerberg’s idea of the metaverse Hmm. But, you know, a hundred years from now, there’s certainly gonna be contact lenses you have in that are, that are ar I mean that’s just no matter.

Speaker 1 (40m 5s): Yeah. I think, I think when Apple comes out with their AR devices when it’s gonna blow up personally

Speaker 2 (40m 11s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40m 11s): AR glasses and we know they’re working on ’em.

Speaker 2 (40m 14s): Yeah. And so that’ll, I mean, that’ll be cool. And, and you know, and I, I just got the meta quests too cuz I had taken some time off of VR and I was blown away by the difference between the first version of Oculus, which I always have, which I have as well. And the, and the meta quests. Hmm. And, you know, I don’t spend, I, you know, I think that there’s things too where it’s like I could sit and read my phone for hours and hours and I’ll be on my computer for hours and hours and I, I’m not in my VR headset for hours and hours. Yeah.

But when I do, I really enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (40m 46s): Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, I haven’t consumed much VR content to be honest. I bought a pretty nice VR headset, but yeah, it’s kind of gathering dust unfortunately. But I gotta have it because in my position I have to be able to view all content. So Yeah. And I’ve never been a person who views porn when I’m not working pretty much. But every once in a while I come upon something and go, Hmm, that’s nice. Yeah. So what do you see as a missed opportunity in the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (41m 17s): It’s just still going back to leadership and, and you know, and, and, and the focus on content. But then I also understand that, you know, I guess just more on that is that the, the, this industry is very young and so obviously it’s gonna go through cycles where we learn and we adjust and we evolve. And so I think that while those opportunities were missed over the past, you know, 25 years, I think that maybe, you know, we have, we have plenty of time to write the ship and capitalize on just coming together as an industry and, and coming together as an industry with the purpose of making the most money for all of us.

You know, like that’s what I Sure, that’s what I always think too, is people, right. You know, when they, when they go, you know, you’re kind of naive about, it’s all about the bottom line. Well great, let’s make it about the bottom line, but

Speaker 1 (42m 6s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (42m 6s): Let’s just get all the good people making a ton of money and sell the content, you know? Yeah. And so think, I

Speaker 1 (42m 14s): Think, you know, when Yeah, sorry to interrupt, but you, when it comes, when it comes right down to it in any industry, best practices make the most money and the adult industry is no different. Right?

Speaker 2 (42m 26s): True. True. Absolutely. You see it because, you know, there’s, there’s, I mean the things that, that we started, I think, you know, I, I had wrote, written down that so many of the production ethics and the production, like the code of conduct for producing that I see. Having now, I mean that’s stuff that, that we did in 2002. I see a lot of sites coming out and, and, and, and it kind of, sometimes it could be frustrating when somebody gets a lot of press and they’re like, you know, we, we treat our models with respect and that’s what sets us apart and we’re different.

And I’m, we’ve been doing that. Yeah. Yeah. We, I mean we’ve been doing that since, since 2000 and, and, and doing sort of unscripted and, you know, just, just doing things different because I, I did see a lot of producers in San Diego and somewhere, you know, were really great. I mean, Lori to Merchant I think is amazing what she was doing for Naughty America. But then I saw some, some producers there where they were doing some extraordinarily shady stuff with models.

Speaker 1 (43m 25s): Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Some of them are in prison now for a good reason. Like those girls do porn guys. Yep. And, and their sentence couldn’t be long enough. No, not, not to mention Mr. Jeremy, which we won’t get into, but in one of my, one of my future episodes, I’ll be talking to somebody about that that has some interesting insights. So after once in a while we do break news, Todd Yanks donates a portion of it’s proceeds to call the safety. Why don’t you tell me what Call to Safety is and perhaps explain that relationship.

Speaker 2 (43m 60s): Yeah. So Call To Safety was, is is a charitable organization that was founded in the early seventies. And it was just initially a call line for people to call in about domestic violence. And now they’ve, they’ve adjusted their mission a little bit and they fight domestic violence and sexual violence. Good. And we had, we had decided to look for a charity about five or six years ago that we wanted to just give a dollar of every sale that we make for Yanks and Yanks VR to a charity.

But what we, we wanted to do was do it publicly. I didn’t want to give an anonymous donation. If I’m gonna give you money, I want to be able to say that, that we’re giving you money. If I wanted to be a real charity, I didn’t wanna, you know, I think that we could, you could start a charity, you could start an organization and you could donate it to yourself and then you could donate to somewhere else. I mean, you know, definitely donate it. But I wanted it to go to a real organization that is nationally known. Right. And they are. And so it took me a year of actually talking to different organizations.

Like one that was was incredibly interesting was V-Day, which was like the, the Vagina Monologues and they’re just like pro-woman and all this stuff. And they, they were sure just flat out rude to me, which was amazing. Cause I’m like, wow. Like here we are doing this. We are very, we’re a hundred percent female produced For real. I

Speaker 1 (45m 21s): Was gonna ask you something. I, I mean I would imagine that some of the charities turned you

Speaker 2 (45m 25s): Down. Yeah, I’m, I mean there was some that were, there were some that made sense. One of the things we started looking at was female circumcision. Cause I’m like, well what a direct, you know, tie in that we are primarily a, you know, sort of, you know, solo girl and girl girl. But it’s, you know, real orgasms is, is one of our main focuses. So that’s an interesting segue to here’s this, you know, this problem where women’s and girls tourists are being cut off. They refused us, but they kind of, they had a really good play where they’re like, we work in so many countries, so many sort of third world countries and sure we get a majority of our money from Christian organizations.

And so that if they knew that money, they’d stop. And I can’t, unless you can duplicate all that money, we can’t do it. Sure. So I understood that some of them were just like, you’re pouring, you’re dirty, you’re horrible people without even looking at what we do,

Speaker 1 (46m 22s): Aren’t we though?

Speaker 2 (46m 23s): Yeah, of course. You know, so when we, when I, when I did finally talk to Call of Safety, I had to do an interview with the C E O and, and talk to the board. And you know, they were impressed with, you know, we’re pro sex worker Yanks. Yep. We advertise as a hundred percent female produced than we are. I mean it’s a hundred percent female models, female producers, videographers, our editors, our content manager. I’m usually, you know, I, I talk to Billy, my partner about what we’re doing and so she, her input is always there.

So it’s, it’s really a female driven company. Right. And the content is female driven. Sure. So they really like that. And so we’ve been doing, we’ve been working with them for five years and you know, like I said, one of the, one of the things I said is I want to be able to put a link to call to Safety on the site. I want to be able to do a PR if I want to and say Yanks is supporting Call of Safety with a blue link. If they were okay with that. Great. So that was really good. And I don’t know many, I don’t know many or if any other companies donate to a charity that isn’t, you know, just an industry charity.

Not that that’s bad

Speaker 1 (47m 30s): Adult specific. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47m 31s): Or adult specific, or one that they organize themselves

Speaker 1 (47m 34s): Maybe more should definitely. Do you have any, any kind of a sense of how much you’ve given ’em so far?

Speaker 2 (47m 42s): I, I think it’s probably been probably like 50 grand. More than that. That’s a nice amount.

Speaker 1 (47m 48s): That’s awesome. Well Todd, I would like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (47m 57s): Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks Bruce.

Speaker 1 (47m 60s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of How to Buy an Adult website. Last week we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow set up where you send the money, whether it be a one time payment or a deposit, if you’re gonna be making payments, the seller for their part puts any tangible assets into escrow, namely the domains being sold and anything else that can be put into escrow.

Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. They’re a firm out of Washington DC and no, they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them, trust them. And I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a custom escrow or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions such as wiring information.

The escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed. It all depends on what the agreement calls for. Whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal closing. Your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this. And it’s on a case-by-case basis. Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.

This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with award-winning trans performer and producer Jamie Kelly. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Todd Spaits. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Russo of Gaming Adult. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three pointoh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale at Tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is four years old. They’re currently the only free tube providing premium BDSM videos, and it’s been reduced in price.

They regularly add user requests and user provided content after moderation. The owners started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it, and he wanted to visit such as site. It soon became popular on Reddit and Business Sword. The owners decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry. The site’s visitors come back again and again due to its uniqueness. They have over 13,000 premium videos and most of them are 30 minutes or longer.

With more videos in categories, the site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There is no advertising being done for the site. All of the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic now only $235,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk as p Rosso of Gaming Adult, aka the Red Man, and aka a Blue Beard Rosso or whatever your name is today.

Thanks for being with us on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 56s): Thank you for, for having me. It’s always a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (3m 1s): Always. So with over 17 years of experience in affiliation and gaming, gaming, adult have become experts in creating, publishing and monetizing the most engaging games in the industry. With over 15 million registered players, they are the two-time winners of the GF Y Awards and the Why Not Awards. By delivering high quality content and building communities with their players, they achieve the best conversion and retention rates on the market using a freemium model gaming adult as the perfect solution to connect affiliates directly with their products by providing the best tools to attract users and make sales Soar tools include animated banners, landing pages, iframes and more, and there’s instant stats access with real-time conversion data.

Their most popular games are porn star, harem featuring top porn stars, comics Harem and Heti Harrows featuring Heti characters, gay Harem and Hentai. Clicker Rosso is the founder of Gaming Adult. He can be seen at pretty much all of the main adult shows with his crew. They all sport red suits, but you’re gonna know Rosso when you see the blue beard. Before he got into adult Rosso got his masters in marketing from the French Business School, and he was working for Fortune 40 companies in France.

So Rao, when do you think we’re gonna actually see sex with robots that can think, talk and move?

Speaker 2 (4m 33s): I really hope soon, but I think it’s not happening anytime soon. That’s, that’s, that’s finger the, the problem. It’s a very big topic in the, in the industry, especially with the sex tech people that are really working on how to connect gadget, how to connect people, how to make, make, make sex more interactive, and how to develop this idea of mental health and sex as a therapy through tech. And I mean, if you could have there, there are so many people that will need sex therapy or just some modern sex like romance and attention.

And, and if you could replace hookers by therapeutic sex robots, I think it it, it’ll be just, just awesome even for sex education.

Speaker 1 (5m 23s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (5m 24s): That, that that would be great. But when is that happening? You have huge problems for this happening anytime soon. First of all, the billionaires of this world are more interested in investing in missiles and killer drones rather than and killer robots instead of true stuff. Yeah. Sex robots, when it’s about investing in the, in the doom of humanity, you find billions because I mean, they call it defense. Okay.

Speaker 1 (5m 51s): It’s offense.

Speaker 2 (5m 52s): Yeah. It’s like the special operation that that Putin is doing in, in Ukraine. It’s a special, special operation with Komark of course. And of course it’s a special operation that is defense by attacking the people because that’s because they feel attacked. And for this they find a lot of money. But will you find money for therapy, mental health, sex education, and sex and robots? There’s not only, there’s no money for that, but there’s also all this prejudice that we have about investing in sex tech and sex in general, that the, the billionaires of these worlds have moralist investors that are evangelists and the conservatists and the prefer to invest Yeah.

In everything that will not give you this freedom and this good health. I I mean, I I might be a bit politicizing this, but just a little, I I think it’s a reality that if you have an, if you have an amazing team, an amazing project, and you’re going to, to make it happen for sex robots that can really change the world and make the, make people feel better, you won’t find money or, or you’ll find little money.

Speaker 1 (7m 0s): That’s sad. That’s sad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (7m 2s): The amount of money you need for this project is insane. We’re talking about insane money. So, but I would love, they’d

Speaker 1 (7m 9s): Rather spend that, they’d rather spend that money killing people. I agree.

Speaker 2 (7m 12s): Yeah. Or making stupid new, stupid social networks. So I’m not, I’m not targeting any billionaire here. Oh, come

Speaker 1 (7m 19s): On, let’s target a few. I love

Speaker 2 (7m 24s): Well, the thing is that there’s not a lot of billionaires that, that don’t deserve targeting. Right. Especially when you about, about freedom of speech. I think a lot of people were hoping that Elon Musk will bring freedom of speech to more freedom in general to Twitter, but I I I don’t, I don’t think it’s happening. I think quite the opposite. So it’s really,

Speaker 1 (7m 46s): It’s freedom of speech as long as you agree with him.

Speaker 2 (7m 50s): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well that’s the, that’s called dictatorship. No, I don’t know.

Speaker 1 (7m 56s): Indeed. Indeed. So how do you think they’re gonna integrate sex robots with games like yours? How will you do that?

Speaker 2 (8m 5s): There’s dreams and the real, there’s reality. So we, we can talk about

Speaker 1 (8m 10s): Dreams. Well, let’s, yeah, let’s dream a little. Why not? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (8m 14s): The things that are our games are really specialized in. So we don’t have this very impressive 3D and metaverse and VR and all. Our orientation has always been that we want, we, we want to have amazing 2d, better than very average 3d. And sure, we are back to the topic of price and investment. If you want to make astonishing 3d, like Pixar level 3D or Disney level 3d, it’s fortunes, fortunes.

We’re talking about millions and millions and millions, right? So if we will dream, we will make games that have, that have ubi soft quality in 3D for, for sex, give me 100 million and I can make you a good 3D game. Give me 1 billion and I might make a prototype for a sex robot. These are the price, the price lines. Sure. So it’s hardly realistic. If we are talking about things that could happen, we have discussions with sex toys manufacturers on how to connect them to our games.

But that means like if you want to have an interactivity on a sex scene, it means that our games need also to improve in terms of right now we don’t have videos. We are working on that for ster Haram. And when we have videos, we can maybe connect the sex toys that we will have some type of interactivity connected to the video. We talked with the guys of Kiu when we met in Bangkok, and they told us that they’ve developed art artificial intelligence scripts that can recognize the movements on videos so that your, your sex toy, once it’s plugged on you, is going to to move with the, the video itself.

That could be realistic. Now you have all the friction that sex toys are expensive and people that can afford stuff that are going to connect on their genitals to live a sex experience in video and video game. It’s not a lot of, well, it’s still a niche market. That could be something we do in 2023

Speaker 1 (10m 23s): Actually. Okay. So, so in 2023 you see something where AI, sex and gaming could work

Speaker 2 (10m 30s): Together. That’s the thing that we are interested. It’s exciting, it’s fun. I think we are naturally led to, to this. But now, okay. It’s always the thing between the dreams and reality. There’s, there’s a few layers of madness, but we, we want to try, we won’t try. I think it’s everything we are doing is going in that direction. So that’s it.

Speaker 1 (10m 55s): Okay. So now your company is a leader in adult games, obviously, and many say the leader. What sets your games apart from other adult game companies?

Speaker 2 (11m 7s): I, I think our out core specialization into storytelling and content, I think is the, the, the biggest differentiator because we are really at core into making beautiful games, beautiful gaming experience, beautiful storytelling experience. That’s really our stuff. And the people in the team are really fans. We love porn. We, we, we love the, the, the universe, you know, around the porn and the hanai and video games and manga. We are really into that. And the team is really passionate about telling stories on this.

What’s setting us apart is really the deep passion for what we do and or we do it. And it’s not like money is not important because it is, but it, I think it for, for, for the team and for a lot of people in the team, it, it, the passion comes first, which might explain why we don’t make so much money. And the competitors make a lot more money because they’re a lot more efficient, they’re less into passion and they’re more into let’s nail the project. And I respect completely their pragmatism.

So sure, maybe in the future we’ll be, we’ll be a bit more pragmatic, but we still love what we do. And I’ve, this is, we are seducing our niche. Also, the players that we have are very loyal. We have been, we have players that have been following us for more than six years. Wow. And it’s awesome. And we have this, this relationship with people that are really consuming the content in a very loyal way. So that’s awesome. I think this is what’s, what, what sets us apart. That’s we, us being hardcore and also being not into so much into the deep technology, but being more, I mean, of course we have technology, but it’s really about the, the storytelling.

Sure. Storytelling to the content. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12m 55s): So do you consider your game he heroes to be entertainment or art? And why is that?

Speaker 2 (13m 3s): I think every content producer might be asking themselves the same question. If you are a YouTuber or you art, or are you entertainment? If you are doing porn, are you art or entertainment? If you are Bruce making podcasts, is it art or entertainment?

Speaker 1 (13m 21s): I don’t think mine. I don’t think it’s either. But anyway,

Speaker 2 (13m 25s): It’s an debate. And depending on the egos and desires of the people, the answer will, will, it goes back to the, to the classic qualifications of art. I, I’m, I’m not sure I can really have them in the proper order, but the, you have these antique forms of art that are the, the classicals, the the six architecture, painting, writing out of the scenes or theater opera and all.

And, and, and I got lost already. I have, I have dressed for, did I say music? Maybe music?

Speaker 1 (14m 4s): No, you didn’t say music.

Speaker 2 (14m 5s): Of course. That’s music. And we’ve been around with the sixth forms of art for thousands of years. Sure. Until the 20th century. And the 20th century came cinema. And when they started with cinema, they were like, oh, we are a new form of art. And the classicals were like, no, you’re garbage. You are not art. You are, you are, you are just some stuff. And we do classics with sculpture, other sculpture that I was missing with sculpture and architecture. We are the classics and you are just rubbish. You are just making stuff that are inconsistent.

Speaker 1 (14m 37s): It’s sounding so french as you say that, by the way. I love it.

Speaker 2 (14m 41s): Yeah. I come from a family of academics, so I know, I know. It is. And they were, they, my, my parents are, were art teachers. So yeah, there you go. And, and the seventh form of art, they had to fight 100 years of cinema production to say, no, cinema is not only entertainment, it can be entertainment, but it’s also art. And you really have artists doing cinema 100 years. So no, now there’s more people fighting for this. And it’s not like there’s real official academics that say, that say, this is art and this is not, it’s, but there’s, there’s not like an academia of the world artist that say that they define this stuff.

It’s accepted that the seventh form of art is cinema. Then the eight form of, of art might be, this is being discussed, media, it, magazines, tv, radio, blogs, podcasts might be of course the old, the, the, the old people that, that of, of this world don’t agree on that. And the ninth could be comics, cartoons could be, but that’s, and then the 10th form of art could very much be video games.

And I personally consider it is so to have my, my personal answer. But I recently read an interview from Idio. Kojima was one of the most respected and most famous video game creator is the creator of metal and plenty of Japanese games. And he was in the interview, he, he was answering this question saying, no, no, no, no. What we do is not art at all. It’s entertainment. So we don’t have the pretension that video games is art. It’s not art at all.

And coming from the, the guy that will be the most relevant to actually access to the level, to the level of top artist in video games that he himself thinks it’s not art. It’s so humbling and a bit disturbing. So I don’t know what to answer anymore after this. I’m, I’m like, okay, I believe, but if video is not believing, we can believe,

Speaker 1 (16m 53s): There you go. If it’s not good enough for him, it’s not good enough for you. So, so how did you come up with the crazy idea for red suits at the shows?

Speaker 2 (17m 2s): Is it that crazy?

Speaker 1 (17m 4s): Oh, I don’t know.

Speaker 2 (17m 5s): I mean, coming from a master in brand marketing like you, I don’t, I’m sure you, you know, you know, it’s not crazy, you know, it’s making a lot of sense. Sure. But yeah, I I I get, I get what you’re saying. A lot of people

Speaker 1 (17m 17s): Are, I, I definitely see you guys coming. There’s no two ways about it.

Speaker 2 (17m 21s): In, in very short, it’s, it’s a long work on brand marketing coming with the idea that when you are nobody, you have to, to look like you’re somebody. So you actually might become someone at some point because we come from nowhere. So we had to build the, the recognition from the ground up. But there’s a, there’s a very long and cool story about this because I remember that it’s, it really started in Lisbon, I think, think 2014, my wife was animating an exhibition at the embassy and embassy there photo exhibition.

And I, I, I didn’t have anything to wear. So we go to Zara and I see this red jacket and I’m thinking, wow, this is impossible to wear. So that’s for me. And, and people in the, in the embassy were really complimenting me about it. Like, oh, you have this red, red jacket, it’s really cool, looking good on you. And it was like a $30 thing in Zaha. Yeah. And a few, at the time, we, we had a startup in gambling and we went to a show in London in the ice.

And I was like, what do I wear? I, I don’t have anything cool and I don’t want to look like too formal, even if it’s kinda business, but sure. Okay, let, let’s try something with this red, red jacket and, and let’s, let’s have some fun. I mean, gambling people, people are fun. And people were really like wing the jacket, like, wow, this is so cool. So much style. Yeah, insane and very cool. And they were taking selfies. And I was like, whoa, okay. So that’s, that’s, that’s a lot of positive feedback for a $30 jacket.

And the year after I go back to this show, it’s, it’s like the, the f v show. It’s like very close communities where people know each other. It’s bigger, but it’s the same spirit. Sure. And I go and meet the friends that I met the year before. I say, Hey, hello, are you, this is cool to see you again. They were like, oh, but hey, would, are you back off? Don’t come near me WeDo. And I was like, oh no, but you met last year and we were talking about this.

And I was like, oh, but you wear the guy with the red jacket. Why don’t you wear your red jacket? And then, then I thought, okay, yeah, I’m the man with the red jacket because if people connect mentally to the red jacket, they will remember me. If I remove the red jacket, I’m another guy. And I was like, okay, let, let’s go, let’s go full speed on this concept. When I came back in the adult business in 2015, I came back with the red jacket. Yeah. And people were like, wow, this is cool.

And then the concept evolved little by little. It became the red jacket and the red suit, then the red suit for everyone. And every time I’ve tried to push a little bit the limit of the style and the personal, which led to having my bird red. So red and red actually was not clicking. Amazing. So this is why you will not see the red bird anymore. Yeah. There was purple once, but it was too dark, so it was not so visible. There was blonde, but the same, it’s always the same thing.

You, you try, you iterate, you split test and you, you see, and the blonde people were kind of dumping that I might be Norwegian or Danish and that and Red, they were like, the guy must be a ginger from Ireland, but blue, it’s okay. I really have comments like, is it natural? I just had it once.

Speaker 1 (20m 59s): Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (21m 1s): Yeah. No, I, I don’t know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21m 2s): They walk, they walk among us. Raso, they walk among us.

Speaker 2 (21m 8s): Yeah. I I told the guy, yeah, it’s natural. It’s a, it’s it’s a degenerative disease. And the person was like, oh, I’m so sorry.

Speaker 1 (21m 17s): Sorry, I brought it up. Oh, really? So tell us about some of the new games you guys are working on.

Speaker 2 (21m 26s): We, we, this, this idea of Paul Haram is really one of the first ideas we ever had when, because when we did Anti-Heroes, the time was fucking broke. And I was trying to save the company and pay the debts. And, and we were like, okay, we make a game that where you’re going to collect anti characters in a very Pokemon style, but hand tie is going to be Pardes of, of manga and all. It’s going to be so cool. And while we were building that, we were like, okay, and we will just, we will build this tech that is going to be a game for collecting and stories and all.

What else could we do if we want to reuse the tech to make new games? So I’m like, okay, the next abuse thing is if you do hand tie, you’re going to do comics, comic books.

Speaker 1 (22m 16s): Right.

Speaker 2 (22m 16s): Comics prepare heroes and all that created the game comics that we released last year. And the logic was, what else can you collect that will be cool in Sex universe? It came as a simple answer that, yeah. Collecting porn stars. There, there might be people in this planet that might be willing to connect porn stars, so let’s try it. Right? Right. But over the years we tried different versions like making porn stars, but illustrated making porn stars buying some custom shoots with partners.

Right. And we tried so many stuff and it was just impossible and too expensive and, and batched crazy. And we came with this thing of using the pictures and now we want to use videos and to to, to use like non-exclusive content for now. And I’ve been going to the shows since 2015 and when I was meeting you or meeting the other guys there, there was always this bizarre vibe that people are interested in what we do.

They’re curious. I like the open-mindedness of, of the community, but also they were like, yeah, but you are doing something bizarre. You make games and I, and nobody does games and nobody does hand tie, so it’s interesting. But can you do something that connects with our industry? For years I’ve been thinking, okay, how could I connect with dating webcams and all, all the cool stuff to have a concrete conversation and not an abstract conversation.

Sure. And, and that’s it. Little by little we’ve been building the concepts of how can we make a game with models? How can we make a game with pictures and videos? How can we make a game that will interact with the businesses? Sure. Siso we experimented with photo editing, photo editing, creativity, building some muscle there. And it’s, it’s, I mean it’s far from being perfect, but I think it’s fairly interesting.

Just recently we’ve been partnering with models like the number one Twitch Girl amk with cber with a scope cost player that’s huge on fan fellowship. And we want to push this concept to ever have to have more games using pictures, videos and models. So this is one of our goals. And next year, early next year, we’re going to release our first game using pictures and videos. But with Toss it was going to be TransAm and then there will be gay porn.

And from this maybe we can even make mainstream games with storytelling based on Twitch models and social media models. I mean, that could be extremely fun.

Speaker 1 (25m 4s): Sure. Yeah. You can take it in a number of different directions. When it comes to porn star Harem, how’s it going and how are you enjoying the interaction with the porn stars?

Speaker 2 (25m 18s): He laughs Yeah. Yeah, because the interactions with the porn stars can be very fun. Especially when you’re on the shows and you go to parties, you go to clubs. Sure. They, they, they’re extremely fun people. Sure. So far, all, all the models and the pal have become friends and it’s, they, they’re people that are educated, open-minded, fun, that like to party and that travel and that have been to so many places. These are the people I like. So by definition it’s, it’s super cool.

But when you go back to the office and you get, you, you go to the part where you have to chase them to sign contracts, you have to chase them to read the contracts, you have to chase them to have to send you the pictures and all that’s a bit less fun.

Speaker 1 (26m 3s): Oh, sure.

Speaker 2 (26m 4s): So as much as they are fun people and all, sometimes you, it been, it’s not everyone, but some of them you would love to see a, a different level of professionalism, let’s say.

Speaker 1 (26m 15s): They’re not all professionals in, in fact it’s a, it’s probably a small, it’s probably a smaller, small percentage. Although I will say in this day and age, it’s getting better, especially with all the money available on places like only fans. They are becoming more business people.

Speaker 2 (26m 37s): Yeah. But then you need to really offer them something that is competing with whatever they do on only fan. Yes. Cause it’s, it’s not like Panim can offer them a $30,000 per month.

Speaker 1 (26m 52s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (26m 53s): Not yet.

Speaker 1 (26m 54s): Not yet. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (26m 57s): Working on it.

Speaker 1 (26m 59s): So how is your company being impacted by the new and the upcoming limitations on freedom of speech?

Speaker 2 (27m 7s): Like all the, the adult businesses? We are restrained in our ability to express our art because I believe that’s what we do with art and is a pure form of expression. And instead of having the capacity of expressing ourselves and and creating cool stuff, we have to comply with, oh, this platform does not allow wet t-shirt and this platform does not allow that.

You have people smoking cigarettes and this platform does not allow, they don’t like this, this appearance of sexual gratification. It’s like, what does this mean? No, but there’s sexual gratification because the boobs are too big compared to the proportion. And it’s appealing to the what? It’s, you have dress people and de look too attractive.

Speaker 1 (28m 6s): The world’s gone nuts.

Speaker 2 (28m 9s): The, the thing is that since there are no, well, well there are some laws, okay, so we are compliant with all, all the laws, but then when you go to a platform that says, well, the law is something, but we have our own personal morality, and you end up with guidelines of morality that are super different depending on the platform. For example, YouTube allows sex,

Speaker 1 (28m 31s): Oh, don’t talk to me right now about YouTube, bro. I just got banned for the second time in, in three weeks, so Oh God. Anyway,

Speaker 2 (28m 40s): Because the sex if shown for educative purposes, I mean, what you do is educative No, it’s <unk> I dunno.

Speaker 1 (28m 50s): No, they didn’t like some of the links that I put put with my podcast. Ah, that’s, that’s why I, that’s why I got my second strike because I linked to a site that has porn.

Speaker 2 (29m 0s): Okay. Yeah. So, but, so let’s say YouTube is slightly more permissive somehow, and then, then

Speaker 1 (29m 9s): You get

Speaker 2 (29m 9s): To Facebook and I think Facebook even like, I think even bikinis are too much for them. So

Speaker 1 (29m 17s): I don’t know. So far, so far they’re we’re okay there. My personal page had so many issues, I finally just shut it down and said, I don’t wanna do this anymore. But that was during the whole Trump thing and you know, I I I was, I was over it. Yeah. LinkedIn closed my account. I still don’t know why they didn’t tell me. Wow. And I was paying now they didn’t close. I had a premium membership and they just closed me down and then didn’t, didn’t gimme any explanation.

Speaker 2 (29m 45s): So yeah, I think that’s the, we, we all have the same problems that we are being monitored enough and the freedom of pitches is, is becoming a distant concept. We will try to explain our kids and they won’t understand. Sure. And I mean, nobody cares because nobody, nobody’s willing to stand for that. Some, some rebels here and there are, are trying to stand for the freedom of speech. But the rare species,

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): Nobody’s standing up for our industry. That’s the problem. You know, with the exception of people inside the industry, people like Free Speech Coalition. But if you, there’s very few people, at least in the US Congress that even want to listen to it.

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): The, the moment you’re a billionaire and you have, and you have your money on the stock market, you might try to talk about freedom of speech, but then you are going to lose 20% of your capital. So there’s, there’s not, there’s no big incentives to go for this.

Speaker 1 (30m 46s): No, you’re absolutely right. You’re absolutely right. So it’s very sad. It’s very, very sad. So tell us a little bit about your lgbtq plus games.

Speaker 2 (30m 60s): Yeah, that’s what we were just discussing before. We are going to launch a trans game in a few months, like two months I think. We’ll, we’ll be ready for

Speaker 1 (31m 12s): When

Speaker 2 (31m 12s): We’ll be for cash. Cash

Speaker 1 (31m 14s): And we should have already, that should have already happened by the time this drops. So that’s good.

Speaker 2 (31m 19s): These are types of games that to be, to be fair, we are not making them with, in mind making the dimensional profits because when we started doing gay RM back in 2017, anti was working well and we thought, okay, what’s the next project we could we make gay version of anti euros? Yes, we could. Is there a business in it? Well, not sure, but let’s try. And the conclusion is that it’s very small, it’s a lot, it’s as much work as anti, but for very limited revenues means we are not losing money.

But at this stage it’s, it’s really a matter of really our own conviction because we could do something more profitable and better and bigger with our teams that are very talented and we are using them on a small game, but we believe it’s also important that we sure actually do this type of game. The gay community on G RM is so nice. They are actually super cool and they are very grateful that, that there are some people that care about making a game for the gay community.

So absolutely we are breaking even and we like it and it’s cool. It is, it is just natural that we believe that it’s nice, it’s fun and we won’t do everything for massive profits and that’s okay. So some, some, some of them are, are, are just projects of natural conviction. And it’s hard to put it into words, but Sure. We beat even it.

Speaker 1 (32m 58s): Sure. Well, like you said, your business is all about passion. That’s the most important thing is that you believe in what you’re doing. And the other thing about the gay space is if you look at it as a whole space, which obviously there’s a lot of fragmentation among the gay space, just like there is among the straight space, but the gay consumer tends to be a hell of a lot more loyal than the average straight consumer that I know for a fact.

So while it might not be real profitable in the short term, I think in the long term you guys are gonna do Okay.

Speaker 2 (33m 36s): That’s true. No, ma I mean that’s, we’re going to do okay. Of course it’s going to be fine, but it, it’ll remain small volumes. So if we have to be very pragmatic about it, we, we won’t do it and we’ll do something else. But we are not always pragmatic. We, we are passionate about making games Sure. And about some convictions about Yes, yes. Freedom of speech and overall reaching out. I mean, we like to be alternative.

I think that there is something in us that, that we really like to do what nobody’s doing. Sure. And, and when I see that there’s a type of game that nobody’s doing, I’m like, wow, you know, nobody’s doing it. Let’s do it. Sure. It, it’s, it’s not completely rational, but

Speaker 1 (34m 26s): I mean, sometimes

Speaker 2 (34m 28s): Life has to be fun. I think, I mean at least that’s how we try to live. We want to make it entertaining and, and and exciting and have good relationship and, and so not everything will be about the money. There’s people that are approaching me more and more and tell me, but you are a fucking idiot. You could, you could sell your business this amount and you are losing this opportunity and you don’t realize that you could do this and that and you’re still doing your gay games when you are, you could actually baby doing mainstream games and sell it to Ubisoft and whatever I make, it’s 100 million.

I’m like, yeah, okay. But yeah, sounds good. But I don’t need that money and it’ll not be fun. And if I sell my business to this big gate, I will do exactly the same business. So maybe I don’t sell it. And I, and I have fun right now. Right,

Speaker 1 (35m 19s): Exactly. Yeah. And it’s all about enjoying what you do and yeah. Hey, if you’re, if you’re in the game business and you’re not having fun, then I think there’s something wrong with you.

Speaker 2 (35m 32s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (35m 34s): So finally, do you remember when and and where we first met? I know it’s been a while.

Speaker 2 (35m 41s): Oh yeah, I do. I do. It’s, it’s, it’s actually a very important thing. We met in WMA Amsterdam at the time. We were fucking broke and we were just getting out of the gambling and we were just trying our, we were in and out with the, with the adult business. We stopped in 2010. Then I was angry with the industry thinking that a lot of people are sharks and don’t have values. And I wanted something I dreamed about, I dreamt about the mainstream people being so amazing and so nice and educated and cool.

Speaker 1 (36m 21s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36m 22s): Right. And then got very disappointed with the slowness and the politics and the overall bullshit. When I came back in the adult business, you were one of the first person that were like, oh, you are new, let’s talk. And we had a beer in this barbecue bar next to the river that there was a side party after. I

Speaker 1 (36m 42s): Remember, I remember that party. I remember that party. Yes. I think it was actually in the fall cuz it was wma. But

Speaker 2 (36m 49s): Anyway, yeah, yeah, it was in, it was in fall. It was in fall.

Speaker 1 (36m 52s): I remember that party. I’ve actually got some pictures from there. They may actually book the

Speaker 2 (36m 56s): Senate. Oh, maybe you can find something in the archives.

Speaker 1 (36m 59s): I’ll, I’ll look, I’ll look.

Speaker 2 (37m 1s): But that’s awesome. I remember that you were very, very kind with me and

Speaker 1 (37m 7s): Only way to be,

Speaker 2 (37m 7s): And I mean there was you and that was JFK that were super nice. Like, okay, you are in the business apparently you, you don’t know what you are doing. And, and you took the time to really tell me stuff and I was like, wow, this guy is so cool. And Bruce is, I really, I remember the old smart you were with your boxes with business cards that had your advertising on it. And I was like, okay, that’s, that’s, that’s nice. So I remember very well and thank you very much for being there at the time.

Speaker 1 (37m 40s): Well, you know, my philosophy has always been to be kind to people and to, and I know Elon Musk has the same philosophy supposedly, but let’s, let’s separate the two right now. It’s all about just everyone’s the same. I don’t care if you own a multi-billion dollar company or if you’re brand new outta college, new in an industry, whatever. I just like people, I like working with people and what ends up happening, if you have that philosophy and I know you have the same philosophy because knowing you and talking to you so many times it shows it’s, it’s just all about talking to people.

BSing at shows, having a drink and you never know what might come of it. If business comes of it, great. If business doesn’t come of it, that’s fine. You know, it’s interesting. I’ll tell you a story. I used to work at a radio station, which I think I’ve told you, and I had a sales manager, he was Israeli and this guy had a very, very white and black look at the world. Either you were with me or you were against me. Mm. Okay. Probably had something to do with fighting in the six day war, I’m not sure.

Anyway, he was a drill sergeant in the army. So this guy, and he was our sales manager. He was like, if someone spent money with the radio station, he loved them. If somebody didn’t, they were fucking assholes. And I would be like, no, this is a really nice person. Okay, they’re my friend. Just because they haven’t spent money with us doesn’t make them a fucking asshole. It just means that they don’t have a reason to spend money with us yet.

And, and I just can’t understand people that are that white and black about the world. Money is certainly not everything. Money’s important because you need money to get by. But you know, I’m 65 now and I, I believe it more than I’ve ever believed it that it’s really all about people and it’s, you know, it’s just about being nice to folks and just the rest will take care of itself.

Speaker 2 (39m 52s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (39m 53s): So, well that’s a great note to leave it. Rosso, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Life Broker Talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (40m 2s): I hope too. It’s always a pleasure, Bruce, thank you very much for the opportunity and well got speed and I hope to see you soon.

Speaker 1 (40m 11s): The pleasure is all mine. My broker tip today, it’s part five of Hana Buy an adult website. Well, last week we talked about how to determine the value of a site, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement. What should be in it? Well, your attorney will guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint. What’s the date you’d like to close? Make sure you know that you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date.

I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. Make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records including 2 25 7 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites. Of course it should spell out any payment schedule if there is one who’s responsible for closing costs such as paying for escrow.

And there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller’s situation. This assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your, your attorney so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Todd Spaits of Yanks Cash. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk.

I’d once again like to thank my guest, Rosso of Gaming Adult. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Elizabeth Dell of Amorus. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords.

As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner has developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third party sites. The store currently has no employees. Aside from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business, SEO is handled by an agency.

This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Elizabeth Dell of Amherst. Elizabeth, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk. Thanks

Speaker 2 (2m 43s): So much for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 45s): It’s a pleasure. Now Elizabeth is the founder of Amiss and a trained sex educator with a masters in public health from uc, Berkeley. In my old stomping grounds, she was previously a film producer producing multiple indie features, including Destination Wedding, starring Wino writer and Kiana Reeves AMS brings her lifetime interest and intimacy and her storytelling career together to help partners play and tell each other their most delicious stories.

Amaris is romance tech. For the 70% of adults already in relationships, there is a 10 billion plus romance tech industry. That’s amazing. Known as dating apps. Okay, that makes sense. For the 30% of adults who are single, but no mobile tech improves romance when you’re already coupled up. Fair enough. Amiss focuses on the number one relationship blocker, intimacy, their proprietary games, tools and chat make pleasure and sexiness easier, safer, and more delicious through your phone.

Amaris is available free on iOS in the app store. So Elizabeth, what was the inspiration for Amaris?

Speaker 2 (3m 59s): So, I have to admit, I am one of those entrepreneurs that made the thing they needed in the world. That’s good though. Yeah. Yeah. It was. It was very personal. I Tell me about it. So I actually was inspired right at the very beginning of the pandemic. I share an a condo in here in Los Angeles with my sister. And so, and I was, I was single. I had a few different partners. None of them were in my contain, excuse me, my containment circle as it were.

Okay. And so when the pandemic went into lockdown, I was having to do intimacy from my phone, right? I was basically burning up my thumbs and, and you know, intimacy, sexuality, pleasure, definitely coping mechanisms for me. And so I was leaning in hard and yet having to do all of it remotely and maybe not my best self in our shared apocalypse, you know? That’s true. I was like, why?

I am not so good at bringing all the funny and bringing all the delicious and figuring out what to do. And so I went looking for things to do with partners, and I actually thought that would be very straightforward. I was like, I’ll go ask the internet and the internet will give me help. And the internet said no. And I was totally shocked. I was like, I, I’m sorry. No, maybe you didn’t understand the question I asked you for help with sex.

Speaker 1 (5m 29s): Google, listen. Like,

Speaker 2 (5m 31s): The answer is like 9.8 billion hits in 0.1 seconds. The answer is not, we don’t have that. Wow. But, but what it was was that specifically I was looking for the two player game, right? What I was looking for was, I already have partners, right? I have people that I love to be sexy with. I just wanna not do all the work to be sexting and, and delicious and engaging with fantasy. I just want it to be easier.

But I don’t actually want something that gets in the way of us too. Right. You know, I don’t want a solo journey. I, there was plenty of solo journeys. We were all having, you know, watching porn and all what the rest, right? But in this case, what I wanted was improve my interaction with another person. Sure. And that was a thing that there was really a lack of, you know, everything that I found was either kind of these weird, you know, truth or dare games that were 10 years old and felt kind of cheesy and a bit misogynistic and like just none of it felt good or positive or empowering.

Or on the other hand, you would find these things that were kind of couples therapy that they really came from this place of like, well, you’re a couple in trouble and we need to help you relate to each other better. Sure. And I was like, no, no, I don’t. I don’t actually want therapy. I want sex. You know, I want fun. I just want to do the fun without having to generate everything myself. Right, right. Can you like help me identify what fantasy is my partner and I think are cool, and then we can do a role play of one of them, but like, maybe we don’t have to do 72 questions back and forth or can you know?

And so I was searching and trying to, you know, I was trying all the things. There were, you know, the Cosmo articles of 36 questions You Should Ask Your Person or whatever. Again, none of it felt oriented towards pleasure, which was what I really wanted. Sure. And so after being very frustrated, I had this little light bulb go off and thought, you know, I can’t be the only person out there in the world that thinks it would be nice if it was a little easier to sext my partner.

Yeah. Maybe there’s a thing here. Maybe there’s something I can do. And so, and that’s where it started. It really started from like, help me be sexy with my person. Just a little bit easier. Yeah. And what’s interesting is that I actually went and I created Amiss and I built that kind of, from that starting point. And it was only in the process of building it and talking to people that I realized that what I was doing was actually something much bigger, which was basically how to be romantic, like a tool to be romantic, to be sexy, to be pleasurable with your partner.

And that actually we didn’t have any of those. And that when I am thinking about, you know, I want to be romantic with a stranger, I have a dozen apps called dating apps. Oh yeah. All of which will help me do that. Sure. But when I actually think about the person that I spent all this time and energy identifying, or maybe it’s persons, you know, maybe it’s right, a few different people for a few different reasons, but I spent all this time and energy identifying the person that I want to like, give, give me spine shivers.

Hmm. We then have no tech tools for that. Yeah. And it’s kind of shocking because like, we invented the word sexting. Like we think getting shivers from your partner on your phone is so important that we created another word for it. Like, and yet we don’t have any tools for that. And so

Speaker 1 (9m 28s): True. So true.

Speaker 2 (9m 29s): That’s, that’s kind of what am that, that that in a nutshell is what AMS is. You know, I, I want it to be the app that everybody has on their phone so that when it’s not logistics, you’ve got a place that you look down and you go, oh, that’s the delicious from my partner.

Speaker 1 (9m 45s): Right, right. So did you build it yourself or did you get help?

Speaker 2 (9m 50s): So the very first prototype I built myself, I had no idea how one becomes an app entrepreneur. And I had one friend who was vaguely in startup things. I didn’t really know what he did, but I said, okay, I think I have this idea for an app, what should I do? And he said, go try and build it yourself. There is a world of what are called no code programs now. Yeah. And they basically are, you know, app builders where they have taken kind of human language and put it on top of coding language.

And so you still have to do all of the things that a coder, that an engineer would do to code an app. But you can do it with natural language words instead of Swift or JSON or you know, Ruby Rails or whatever that is. Sure. Basically think like, you know, they’re what, what WordPress was to the original blogs. That’s what these new codes are. That’s cool. So that was the first thing I did. And that was, it was really powerful cuz at the time I wasn’t really sure what it was I was building and you know, I could just experiment and fail and failed a lot of times on my own.

Finally built something that kind of sort of worked. I showed it to one friend and they said, oh, never show this to another person ever again. Are you kidding? No, I was a little butt hurt. Ooh, that hurts. I was like, well, that’s that. Ouch. Yeah. And, but the friend said, they, they were very honest. They said, you have a really cool idea. And it is something that actually, because what it is is games and chat with a partner.

We do those things in the world on apps already. I can imagine that from just wire frames, from design pictures, from things like that. Sure. But you are not very good at being an engineer, so what you built is really ugly and it’s really janky and it doesn’t work very well. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11m 51s): Talk about honesty. My

Speaker 2 (11m 52s): God. So yeah. So she was like, this makes me think worse of your idea. You would’ve been better if you just showed me some design pictures of what it will look like. And I was like, I’m fine. Okay. So, so then I went, yeah, good, good friends, good friends with, as my dad says with friends like that, you don’t need enemies, you

Speaker 1 (12m 13s): Don’t need animals. That’s right.

Speaker 2 (12m 17s): But, but then I, at, at that point, I went and I found actually a brother sister team who I hired to do the build, the original AM for ams and then have now come on as co-founders with me. And so they, I found them and could then at least, what what was lovely is I could then bring them a really clear idea of what it was I wanted the app to be. And then we worked together to build it. And so That’s correct. Yeah. That’s, so I did not code anything in the app, but I tried once upon a time.

Speaker 1 (12m 51s): Yeah. Doesn’t hurt to try. So who can use Amherst?

Speaker 2 (12m 56s): So at the moment, it is anyone, there are two things you need. You need an iPhone or iOS device, iPhone, iPad, very new Mac, anything that can use an I iOS app, because unfortunately we are only on one platform at the moment. Right. And you need a partner who has the same, right. And that partner can be your life partner or your spouse. That can be a girlfriend or a significant other. That can be a lover, that can be an ex, that can be friends with benefits, that can be, you know, the third person in your molecule or the 12th person in your molecule.

But the,

Speaker 1 (13m 37s): That sounds complex. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (13m 40s): That’s a lot. But the, the fundamental premise is that amis is one-to-one connections with an invited partner. So there’s no social network, there’s no shopping for people to talk to on our app. There’s,

Speaker 1 (13m 53s): There’s no swipe left.

Speaker 2 (13m 55s): Exactly. You have to send an invitation. So that person might be someone that you’ve never met in the real world and you are sending them a private message or a DM on FE life. But you have a way to individually say, here is an invitation, please connect with me. I mean, it can be a link that you send through via only fans. Right. Anything, but you have to be able to directly send that, that individual link and then you can connect and

Speaker 1 (14m 22s): Play. Okay, so how do you start and use the

Speaker 2 (14m 26s): App? So that’s step one is connecting with your person. And then the whole idea of amorous is let’s build you a house for sexy play. And so how do we do that? We do that with games. Amherst has three different games on it and more coming next year that are all about how do we help you flirt and start sexy and get delicious. And so one of those games is called chat sparks. And it is like, it sounds things that spark conversation.

So it’s hundreds of different questions. You hit the button, there’s a random prompt that goes to both of you. And that could be, you know, what’s the most erotic thing you’ve ever worn where it’s the farthest you’ve traveled for sex, what is a smell that turns you on immediately? And there are lots of really fun, creative, interesting, some very spicy, some medium spicy, some slightly spicy, but you don’t have to think about it. You just push the button and then you guys can be off to the races talking about that.

Or if you don’t like the question, hit the button again and get a new one. We have hundreds. The next game is called Fantasy Swipe. And it is in fact a little bit of left right Tinder swiping, but not people it’s desires. It is tiles with desires on them. So they again, mild, medium and very spicy. It might go from, we should have a pillow fight to, we should do stag vixen or puppy play, or you know, an orgy and you get a few tiles every day.

You say what you want and don’t, your partner does the same. And when there’s a mutual match, it’s revealed. So in some ways it’s kind of a similar to a yes no maybe list only. We’re only revealing the yeses and giving people a chance to, rather than have to ask all the questions and maybe get seven nos to everyone. Yes. You just learn, oh, we both think librarian students a good idea. And then you can say, oh, well we should talk about this more.

Or perhaps set aside some time on Saturday night. And you can identify that. And then the third game is called Jigsaw. And you can take a picture and send it to your partner, your flame as we like to call them. And they get it as a blurred puzzle that they have to solve before they get to see your picture.

Speaker 1 (16m 58s): Ooh. Sounds interesting.

Speaker 2 (17m 0s): Lots of different ways to spice it up, to flirt, to add a little bit of fun and sexiness to your day and your flames day. There

Speaker 1 (17m 10s): You go. I’ll note to everyone that this is towards Thanksgiving and it will run after the first of the year. So you mentioned the games you’ve got now, which ones do you have planned?

Speaker 2 (17m 22s): So it probably won’t be until the spring that the next two launch. We’re working on them right now and Okay. The holiday isn’t throw you down.

Speaker 1 (17m 30s): That’s probably timed out pretty well with when this will run. So,

Speaker 2 (17m 34s): But, but the games that we have coming are similar to Chad Sparks. We have a photo prompts game coming. So rather than a text prompt, it’s gives you a photo prompt. So send a picture of something in your bathroom that you could use as a sex toy or find a picture on the internet that involves rope that you think is sexy and share, you know, the using the language of visuals. But again, right. Giving you tools to think outside the box and still be sexy and delicious.

I find it really fascinating. I love thinking about how to be sexy with people and gathering everyone’s, you know, best stories. Right. And one of the things that I think a lot of people forget is that you can be creative or like there, there are options other than just say full body nudes. I think most people think sexting is a full body nude. And, and then the question is like, do I include my face or not? You know, how well do I know you? And I like to say, you know, there’s a lot of things before that.

You know, there are pictures of other people from the internet that you just think, like, share things you find erotic, they share things that turn you on, right. There are, you know, a picture of your toes or a picture of your ankle or an extreme closeup where your person has to try and guess what, it’s an extreme closeup of, you know, there’s lots of ways to make games out of pictures. And so that’s our, that’s our first game that’s coming. And then the other one that we’re building is a fill in the blanks.

It is not a madlibs game because the word madlibs is absolutely trademark protected. Sure. But a fill-in-the-blank game kind of with sexy topics. So, you know, fill in the blank of the, about last night letter or the visit to the dungeon or the trip to the sex shop or the brand new sex toy coming to market. Or, you know, fun ways to do that.

Speaker 1 (19m 33s): Sure. So does it cost money to use the app?

Speaker 2 (19m 37s): Not at the moment. We are free and available for everybody right now. We it’s awesome. Will be doing monetization. I mean, I would also, I wanna owe like yeah, we absolutely have monetization coming. Another thing that we are gonna be working on for the, for next year, I believe very fervently that if you are not buying the product, you are the product. And it’s true. You know, someone, if you are not buying it, someone is selling you. Yes. And we commit that amorous will never read, never share, never sell your message like that.

I, we do not look at your messages. No one ever does. That’s always encrypted. It’s encrypted in transit, it’s encrypted in storage, it’s encrypted everywhere. Sure. But in order to make that happen, you do have to buy the product and we’ll be rolling out monetization next year.

Speaker 1 (20m 29s): Okay. So talk about privacy and safety.

Speaker 2 (20m 33s): As I said, everything’s encrypted. We have a cloud storage system and the reason we do that is that we are all about revocable consent. This is one of the things that I think is very specific to Amris and rather unique, is that I was always really frustrated with the fact that under most circumstances, the only way you can keep something safe is to make it temporary. Hmm. You know, that’s the fundamental premise of Snapchat. Right.

If the, if it’s, if it’s short enough, maybe no one will steal it. And that’s the only way to keep your pictures safe. But I wanna keep the sexy pictures that people send me. I want to be able to reference them back again. I don’t necessarily wanna take them away from my partner Yeah. Until I want to. But then when I do want to, I want to be able to. And so that’s what we built into ams. Sure. A remarkable consent to us means anything you share, you can revoke at any time and it will revoke on both sides automatically.

And so if that’s a text message that you delete, it deletes on both sides. If that’s a picture that you sent to your partner, if that’s a jigsaw puzzle picture you sent them that they solved anything that was yours to share, if you delete it, it deletes automatically on both sides. Because if you revoke consent, you revoke consent. And the same is true for your partner. And then we also, it’s not the smallest thing to block screenshots entirely. We’re not yet there that requires Apple’s permission, but we have screenshot notifications as well.

So basically if you take a picture of your screen, your partner will automatically get a message. They’re, I think they’re pretty cute. Our messages say a picture was just taken time for our conversation about consent.

Speaker 1 (22m 25s): There you go.

Speaker 2 (22m 26s): So, but we have screenshot notifications and then we also built a bunch of other little features in there. So for instance, if you use Amex’s in-app camera to take a sexy picture and send it to your partner, it will never go to your photo stream. We don’t share to the photo stream. So the idea being that we amis can be your hub for those kinds of pictures. It can be the place where they live and you can keep them off of, say if you’re an Apple user, as all of ours are, keep it off of the main photo stream that might be also syncing to the iPad that you let your kids use sometimes and they wanna play their games.

Speaker 1 (23m 4s): Or you’re showing a picture from your VA vacation due to grandma all of a sudden. Oops.

Speaker 2 (23m 9s): Yep. And to that, to to exactly to that, you know, we, you can always control all your notifications that is an Apple feature. But Sure. Even if you have full notifications on for Amris, right. The most you would ever get is a message on your home screen that says you have a new message in your chat with user, like fill in the username in Amris. Right. We never put the text of a message on a lock screen on a notification, anything like that. Again. Good.

That’s all privacy. Like you have to go into the app to figure out what that was. But then you can also control when you do that, you know? Right. I think, I think there’s something really, there’s something really nice about being able to silo that, because I know that with, well with my partners, it’s, you want the sexy communication, but you want it when you want it. Yes. And if it’s coming through just standard text message, all of a sudden a sexy mo, a sexy conversation or a sexy message from them might elicit a fear response because you’re like, oh no, this is exactly the wrong time.

Oh shit. Oh shit. Oh shit.

Speaker 1 (24m 15s): Right on your right on your screen. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24m 17s): Yeah. And they’re trying to do something really lovely to like, you know, get you all excited and proud and confident and it’s totally backfired. And one of the things about Amaris is when you’re in the app, you know, oh, if now is not a good time to look at that kind of a message, I can wait and I can just know it’s there and go look for it in 20 minutes when I’m all by myself.

Speaker 1 (24m 41s): There you go. So what have you learned about how people do sexy chat and sexting?

Speaker 2 (24m 48s): First thing I’ve learned everybody sext on Tuesdays.

Speaker 1 (24m 52s): Really?

Speaker 2 (24m 53s): Yeah. Tuesday, Tuesdays is the day. Okay. Everybody sext on all the days we have, we have lots of messages flying back and forth on the app on every day of the week. Right. But while the number one day will, like the number two, the number three, the number four day will move around Tuesday is laminated into the number

Speaker 1 (25m 17s): One spot. Why, why is that do you think? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (25m 19s): I think it’s because it’s when people are bored. Like they are the most bored, I think on a Monday. Often people are starting their week. Yeah. They might be exhausted from the first day of getting back into stuff. They don’t, they’re still sort of putting themselves together and then towards the end of the week they’re actually planning or they’re going out, you know, on a Thursday they might be going out for a happy hour drinks, they might be doing things and on the weekends they’re out doing things. But Tuesday is the night where they don’t have plans and they’re sitting on the couch and they’re like, Ooh, now I can message with my boo.

You know, and I’m not gonna see them. We have about, I would say about half of our relationships, as far as I can tell, about half of our relationships are people who live with each other. And about half of them are people who don’t weather. That’s long-term long distance, or whether that’s reasonably new relationships that just don’t live together yet. Right. But for all of the people who don’t live with each other, Tuesdays is less likely to be a night that they’re spending together. So messaging, you know, burning up those thumbs

Speaker 1 (26m 26s): Interesting Tuesdays.

Speaker 2 (26m 27s): Yeah. I’ll say the other thing that I have noticed is that people, like all the fantasies, I keep looking for trends in what fantasy gets swiped the most. Yeah. And they’re just, just are very few trends there. Like I keep thinking I spot a trend and then I’m like, oh no, but then they like that one too, and they like that one too, and they like that one and they like that one and they just like all the fantasies. Yeah. But I do see that where we get the most matches, definitely the matching starts mild and like moves up the ladder.

Right. So then the, the ones that we find match the most tend to be the milder ones because I think, and I think that that’s, that’s fairly normal. You know, everybody can get behind a pillow party. Not everybody wants to go to a sex club. So you’re gonna like the, you’re gonna match more on the ones that are more

Speaker 1 (27m 26s): The tamer, the

Speaker 2 (27m 27s): Tamer ones. The tamer ones. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (27m 29s): Makes sense. So what types of sexy chat conversations do people generally have?

Speaker 2 (27m 36s): So I don’t read our messages, so I cannot answer that about my users in particular. Like, I, I can’t say anything that’s research based. What I can say is that prior to, and in the process of building ams, I spent a lot of time doing background research, did a whole lot of interviews with people and asked them about their best sexting. And these were interviews where, you know, I knew the person and I was on a call with them. And I also have, I do a workshop around sort of communication skills and how to do digital intimacy well and tips and tricks for sexy chat.

Yeah. And I would say from that I tend to break down almost all sexy conversations into a few big topic buckets. So if you’re looking for something to talk about, one of these categories is always a good idea. And those categories are sex we’ve had with each other. Right. So revisiting the thing that you’ve done with that person. Okay. If you have a history together, right. It’s the sex that we could have together. Sure. Right.

It’s the, the, and, and I would say that in that, in the could have, there’s the we Sex, we will have, so anticipating a future event, you know, what we’re gonna do this Saturday or what we’re gonna do when we go on that big sexy vacation, or what if we decided to go to Vegas for the weekend? What would that be? What could we do? And then also like a more fantastical, you know, role play. Like what would we wanna do with each other? Hmm. And then I think also the what would I wanna do with someone?

And then there’s also what history have I done with other people? You know, that. And so I would say it’s, I mean, this is what

Speaker 1 (29m 22s): That one sounds. That one sounds a little dangerous.

Speaker 2 (29m 24s): I think it depends on the person and the relationship. If you’re someone who’s just getting to know someone and you guys are really comfortable with conversations

Speaker 1 (29m 33s): With my, with my wife, that one would be totally off limits.

Speaker 2 (29m 38s): Fair enough. And I think, I think it all depends, right? It’s sure. It’s, it’s absolutely whatever is exciting to you. But most of what I just said, I mean basically falls into the bucket of the past, the present or the future. And then, you know, with a, with an added and then the fantasy, you know, past, present, future fantasy.

Speaker 1 (29m 58s): I mentioned the Mile High Club tour, my experiences with that and, and not only wasn’t she amused, but she wasn’t interested. So, oh, well whatcha

Speaker 2 (30m 8s): Gonna do? I, I always thought the mile High Club was really, really exciting. And then for a while I had a lover who was a air marshal and man, did he take the romance out that

Speaker 1 (30m 22s): Oh, I bet. Oh, I bet. Big time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30m 26s): Yeah. Like nothing better than an air marshal and probably, or probably anyone who works at an airplane to take all of the romance out of airplanes, take time, take all the romance out of flying

Speaker 1 (30m 37s): Big time. So what are your best tips and tricks for good sexting?

Speaker 2 (30m 42s): The one piece of advice that I always say is my silver bullet, my ninja piece of advice is ask questions. Hmm. And the reason I say that and ask questions might be really big questions like, what are you into? Although that’s very open-ended and tougher for someone to come up with an answer too. It might be really specific, like you said, you want me to touch your neck? Where on your neck would you like to be touched? But asking questions, phrasing things, those questions is a really remarkable communication skill because it says to the other person, I want to do what you want.

Yeah. I want to know what you want, I want to respond to the thing that you just told me. Right. You know, tell, you said something, you, you said that, I don’t know, the smell of peaches turns you on. Now I wanna know, is that like fresh peaches or is that peach pie? Or is that a peach candle? You know, do you wanna, what would, if I made you a bubble bath and I put some peach bath salts, would that be sexy to you? Would it be sexy if I brought in a sex toy? You know, I brought, I brought a wi waterproof vibrator. But every time you ask a question, you are saying what you want is why I’m here.

Yeah. And your input’s really important. And I think great sexting is about building together. Right. And inherently what it is, is you’re building a story of sex because you can’t do the thing, you’re building the story together with the other person. And so when it’s great is when you’re both on a shared journey, right. You’re doing things that turn you both on. Yes. You’re engaged in something that makes you both excited and happy. And using questions are a really good way to keep, to make, to both keep yourself on track and to respond to them and be, and to say, oh, okay, you gave me some information, I’m gonna respond.

I’m gonna say, well, I’d love to do that. What if I did this? You know? Right. What you want me to touch your neck? What if I scraped the back of your neck? And they say, oh, actually no, it’s not like a scrape. I want like a whisper. Oh, okay. Okay. Let me adjust. You know, so, and I guess underlying the asking questions, like asking questions is the tactic and the premise underneath is be on a shared journey. Yeah. You know, always be paying attention to the fact that you are not there just to serve whatever fantasy that you started the night with, but to find something that the two of you are gonna, that’s gonna make magic for both of you.

Sure. And I think when you, when you forget that this is a two-player experience, that’s when it can go off the rails and be less fun for one of both

Speaker 1 (33m 29s): Of you. Absolutely. Absolutely. So share one great sexting story you have.

Speaker 2 (33m 35s): Oh, okay. So I actually, I wish I could say this was mine, but like the most epic sexting story I ever heard was from one of these background interviews. And I have had it in my brain that if I ever get to do this myself, I absolutely will. But I was informed by this person that, so they had met someone that actually, I think it, they was a couple, this was someone pretty adventurous. They’d met a couple and they were all in the same city and they were chatting online for a while before they were gonna meet in person.

And so they had concocted this whole like a, a bit of a shared fantasy, but definitely this person was taking the lead in, in, in sharing the story and like, oh, we’re gonna meet at a hotel and, you know, wouldn’t it be sexy if you are going up the elevator and you walk out and this and that. Unbeknownst to the other cup, to the, to the other people in the story, this person had some place in mind. They had like, they had a very clear place that they liked to go and wanted to do this. And so they concocted this whole fantasy and then like a month later, were able to bring it to life because that hotel, and there was the elevator and then there was the hallway, and then there was the bar at the end with the, with the piano player and the smokey glass and the whole thing.

And it was like stepping in. You got to create this fantasy for these people because he had someplace in mind. And so that to me always seemed, I would love to do that one day either to be on the receiving end or to be able to deliver that to someone. I mean Sure, bearing in mind everything I just said about making sure it’s a shared experience and that yes, someone wants you to be creating this fantasy for them. But, but yeah, the idea of creating a whole sexy story with someone and then being able to bring it to life and enact it that way, always,

Speaker 1 (35m 33s): That’s real

Speaker 2 (35m 34s): To me. That that was the gold star, that was the Oscar winning version. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): That’s really cool. So what is your future vision for Amiss?

Speaker 2 (35m 42s): I wanna be everywhere. I was having lunch with my parents a few weeks ago and it was, I was celebrating that we were, had many thousands of people on the app. And I was so excited about that. Actually, this was about a month ago and it was, I think 5,000 people were now almost seven. My father was, he said, oh, well, I mean, where, where do you go next? Like a hundred thousand. Can you imagine a million people using your app? And I was like, no, dad, I think a hundred million people should be using this app.

I think there should be a world in which every single one of us has an app, whether it is Amorous or something else, has an app or apps on our phone for our romance the same way we do for our meditation, the same way we do for our fitness, the same way we do for grocery shopping and work Sure. And all of these things. You know, when I am single and I am dating, I have a whole folder with a dozen different dating apps that I can have or not.

And you know, depending on what slice of that I wanna choose, I think there should be, we should all have an app that enables us to be sexy and delicious with our partner or partners. Yeah. And do that from a place of confidence and power and positivity. And it ain’t nobody else’s business, what you’re saying that’s sexy. But all y’all should be like, oh yeah, I am sexy. I am a sexy beast with the person I want to be sexy with.

And of course I do that in a way that is private and facilitated and so much more fun and less work and encrypted and all of those things. So

Speaker 1 (37m 23s): You’ve had a, you’ve had a really interesting journey getting your masters at Berkeley film producer and now you’re in the adult industry. Do you ever think about that and, and how you’ve gotten from here to there?

Speaker 2 (37m 38s): You know, it’s funny, when I started thinking about Ammas and I was reaching out to a bunch of my friends and kind of talking through this crazy idea I had, I thought I was this crazy idea and I was like, oh my gosh, can you believe I’m doing this crazy thing? I think I’m gonna do this app that’s like romance and games and pleasure and sex with people and, and tech and, and I’m, I’m just, I’m, I’m, it’s so different. Sure. And every single one of my girlfriends was like, Hmm, no, this feels really on brand Like this, this feels like the thing that you’ve been working towards your whole life.

Or like, this is this, this ties together threads of you in ways that make all the sense in the world. When I look back in some ways, I’ve been prepping for this, as I said my whole life. I grew up with a professor of reproductive health as a parent. You know, my mother was a so and yeah, professor of reproductive health that’s moms and babies. And that sucks. I was the kid at seven years old on the playground who said, oh, no, no, no, no, that’s not how babies are born. Let me tell you how they make babies.

I know the details. You know, I was the girlfriend at 20 years old or legally 22 years old at the bar who got out the napkin in the pen and was like, no. Okay, so this is what your insides look like and there’s sort of a uterus and a triangle and a thing, and this is what’s going on and you guys gotta know this stuff. And I was the friend at 35 who gets the phone call from her girlfriend who says, okay, I’m freaking out. Like I was at a company holiday party and I’m, and I’m, and and, and like there was a kiss and, and, and I didn’t tell my husband yet and I don’t know what to do.

And oh my God. And I’m the friend who says, well, was it a good kiss? Like let’s, let’s just like bring it down. Like it’s cool. Like I think I’ve always been, shit happens. Yeah. Yeah. Well I’ve always been the person who’s like, let’s approach sex from a place of like love and not judgment and let’s, like, we should all be delicious and we should all be fun and we should all be having a really good time at this. Sure. And that’s always been a personal journey. And so bringing that into my professional life kind of made sense.

Speaker 1 (39m 57s): Makes sense to me. So how can people find the app?

Speaker 2 (39m 60s): Amis has its own special text spelling A M O R U s. So a little bit different, but just you can go find it in the app store. That is the first place I’ll tell everyone to look. And then you also can go to our website, which is www.amris.net. And you can also find us all on socials. So all of our socials are at amris app, so A M O R U S A P P. And yeah, we love people to follow.

I mean, honestly, we love people to download the app and invite their partner and go find some shared fantasies and get sexy. That’s, that’s what I love when I wake up in the morning, I mean, and I’m a tech founder. I wake up in the morning and I open my laptop and I check my stats every single morning. And I, when I do it, I’m like, who? There were 2200 messages sent on my app last night. Geez. There’s nothing that makes me happier, you know? And you go and you’re like, oh, there was a whole bunch of couples having a real good time. Yay.

Speaker 1 (41m 0s): Fantastic. So, well, Elizabeth, I would like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Side Broker Talk, and I’m looking forward to getting you back on one of these days and getting an update.

Speaker 2 (41m 12s): I would love that. That would be amazing. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (41m 15s): Me too. Thank you. My broker tip today is part four of How to Buy a Website. Last week we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the sites you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer, the work begins. If you’re working with a broker like say, oh, I don’t know, adult Site Broker, we handled the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer, they may make a counter offer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or you can also counter back to them.

A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site. You should have asked some questions like the ca in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day, and any other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically, to integrate it with what you’re already doing.

You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask those pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself draw up a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules. However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney change some of those rules.

Nothing’s final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we do for our clients is a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent, and more so the agreement will have all the terms involved, including who pays for everything, who pays for escrow, for instance. This can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties. We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Rosso from Gaming Adult.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Elizabeth Dell of Amorus. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Side Broker, and welcome to Adult Side Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Ashton Egner from Kiiroo and Feel Robotics. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer an amazing opportunity. If you’re in the live cams model management or fan site space, or want to get into them, we have a private listing that may be just right for you. This company works with all major CAM sites and has access to hundreds of US-based models.

We’re offering very limited information at the seller’s request. In order to maintain privacy, we anticipate multiple offers for this very rare listing. For more information, contact us@adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Ashton Iner of Kiu. Ashton is the marketing operations and communications manager of Kiu and Field Robotics, the pioneers in interactive intimacy with more than six years supporting both brands.

Ashton is an expert in high high-tech haptics and robotics and passionate about using technology to help individuals forge new and better ways to connect. Born in Africa, Ashton came to Europe in 2011 to explore the world and gained new experiences. She received her degree in communications in media from Rasmus University, Rotterdam, and paved an impressive career path in fashion, entertainment, and technology representing an innovative brand that ignites all senses.

Ashton wants to share that connection and exploration with the world. She currently lives in Amsterdam, the home of of Kiu, where she continues to be curious about new cultures and enjoys life through food travel and meeting new people. Kiu is an award-winning interactive sex toy company based in Amsterdam between the city’s business and famed Red Light District that has been a leader in the TELEDILDONICS industry since 2013. So Ashton, tell us more about you and what you do at Kiro and Field Robotics.

Speaker 2 (3m 25s): Okay. Well thank you very much for that introduction. Sure. It doesn’t begin to cover all the things that we get up to at kiro and Field Robotics.

Speaker 1 (3m 34s): Well, will you tell me,

Speaker 2 (3m 36s): So I guess, let me start with Ki with Field Robotics. Field Robotics is our parent company, and basically we license our software to multiple companies, KIRO, other brands like Starcom. Oh my God. We’ve kind of created the Android of Sex toys. Okay. So Field Robotics produces software that can make any product. Yeah. Sex product or haptic wristbands interactive.

So that means that they can connect through our app to interactive content. So it could be from any porn site, from virtual reality to your partners, et cetera. And at Kiro we produced the hardware. So we created sex toys that send touch through the internet, and you can basically feel your partner anywhere in the world. So Awesome. So how those go together and how Yeah. My days, look, I am one of the people that works a lot on the copy for every website, for every app.

I do a lot of user manuals, I do a lot of trainings. I work with a lot of webcam performers with our field stars, which are adult entertainers, influencers. We basically, yeah, work with all of these awesome people to drive traffic, to sell our products and our services. So no day looks the same. It could range from social media to filming videos, to Yeah, being on a podcast to doing interviews.

Yeah, really no day is the same. And I think it’s because our technology is so innovative and it’s got so many different user cases that yeah, it just kind of speaks for itself. Like every meeting I go into, something different is happening and something new and the ideas are just, yeah, it’s, it’s a great environment.

Speaker 1 (5m 37s): It must be great to have a job with that much variety.

Speaker 2 (5m 40s): Yeah, it really is. Sometimes it’s too overwhelming, but yeah, like the technology is so interesting that Right. Everybody wants a piece of it and Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s innovative. Everything that we do is innovative and you can just see the enjoyment that my colleagues have when they get to have their ideas sort of implemented or they’re designed like added. So it is very, we’re a young company, so it’s a lot of Yeah, a lot of energy.

Speaker 1 (6m 14s): Well, for a technology company, it’s gotta be a lot of fun because it’s in the pleasure product space.

Speaker 2 (6m 21s): Exactly. So yeah. One thing that we’ve learned over the last couple of years of Kiro and Field Robotics is that the adult industry is always the first to adopt the technology. Yep. But the mainstream industry is the one where, yeah, the biggest like sort of shock factor comes from. So, sure we are lucky we are between both industries because we can produce something for long distance relationships and all of the news newspapers go wild for it.

But the adult industry are the ones that are like, we’re gonna make money from this. This is how we’re gonna use it, and how we’re gonna actually use it to make our lives different. It’s not just a new story, but it’s actually, yeah, it’s actually helping them make money drive sales.

Speaker 1 (7m 8s): Sure. I’m sure you’re getting a lot of mainstream pr.

Speaker 2 (7m 12s): Yeah, we do. We have been on pretty much almost all of the big names that you can mention. We have been on two chains, most Expensives through Vice. We’ve had, I think maybe three vice documentaries, bbc, cnet. So yeah, we, we are quite lucky with that, that our technology is extremely innovative and that people wanna cover what we’re doing. So yeah, we’re very lucky about that.

Speaker 1 (7m 42s): Absolutely. So talk about the Kru brand and the history of the product.

Speaker 2 (7m 48s): Yep. So it’s actually quite an interesting one. I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard of the movie Demolition Man from 1992.

Speaker 1 (7m 57s): Mm. Sounds familiar.

Speaker 2 (7m 59s): Yep. So it was with Sylvester Stallone and Sandra Bullock and Was movie. Yeah. In the movie they had virtual sex with each other using these two interconnected helmets. They were sitting across the room from each other looking at each other with these helmets on, and they had virtual sex. So yeah, like maybe I’ll step back a little bit. The term Teledildonics, which means like cyber sex or sex through the internet was coined in the 1980s, if I’m not mistaken.

Hmm. So the fact that this came out in a movie in 1992 was like, whoa. But yeah, somebody had already thought of it. And so one of our founders was watching this movie and he was like, whoa, that’s actually like, you know, we’re in this time where we can do a lot of things with technology. Why don’t we try to see if I could be intimate with my partner from a distance? So they got together, I think it was a group of four people, little old school that was sort of run down in the Netherlands.

They had these sort of like anti crack is what it’s called. And it’s old buildings that get put up for like really, really, really cheap for people to use.

Speaker 1 (9m 20s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (9m 20s): Yeah. And so they had like a little room there and they had four developers or four engineers trying to see if they could send touch through the internet. And lo and behold, they figured it out. And our CEO and his business partner, it was to, and his business partner decided, let’s go to, I think it was AVN or Ex Biz book a hotel room, invite a whole bunch of people and see what they think about it. And he said the meetings went fantastic.

Everybody was like, we could see that integrated with our cam sites, with our, with our websites, et cetera. Absolutely. And so they had enough enough, yeah. Reason to come back and actually make this a thing. So they got the team together, they built up, and we created the first product in 2015. They were called OP an sre. And they were just sort of prototypes to prove that the touch could get sent. And then we made our first generation on and Pearl

Speaker 1 (10m 25s): Remember that.

Speaker 2 (10m 25s): Yeah. And yeah. And now actually we are releasing the Pearl two Plus and Pearl three this week. So we’re on the third generation because people loved these products so much. So time and evolution have passed and six years later, here we are with the third generation Onyx and Pearl and yeah, a whole bunch more other products that we’ve created alone and in partnership with awesome brands like Hot Octopus and oh my God,

Speaker 1 (10m 57s): Yeah. I remember in 2015 going to your offices and seeing what was going on there. And I was doing, I was doing some business with, with Tone at the time, and I would say his name wrong. I always call him by, you know, the pronunciation of T O O N Tune. But anyway, but I remember I was just so blown away by not only everyone’s attitude there, like you were talking about earlier, and I’m sure you guys have grown many times over since that point, but just how the, the environment there all about it.

It was just fantastic. So

Speaker 2 (11m 36s): Was that an Amsterdam that you came? Yes, yes. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I mean, you probably came, when I started six years ago, we were 15 or 16 people and you would’ve come one year before that, which means there were like seven people.

Speaker 1 (11m 52s): Yeah, exactly. Yes.

Speaker 2 (11m 54s): And now we’re around 60 people.

Speaker 1 (11m 56s): Wow. That’s

Speaker 2 (11m 58s): Great. Not everybody works just for Kiro. Some of us work across old brands. We have a very famous Dutch interactive webcam site is live, they’re part of the field robotics group. They work in our office too. And then we have Field Hay, which is our haptic wristband, which is mainstream. We’ve got Kiro and yeah. So we’re a lot of people now underneath the field robotics name, and we all get to work together, share ideas.

Yeah,

Speaker 1 (12m 30s): It’s great. It’s great to see the growth. It’s, it’s a real success story. So what is special about Interactive Technology?

Speaker 2 (12m 38s): Okay, well, yeah, there’s, there’s many things. Maybe I’m biased because I work for an interactive sex toy company. I’m not sure. I’m sure not. But yeah, the, like, the best thing about interactive technology is the interactiveness. It’s the fact that you can feel what you’re seeing regardless of whether you’re feeling content, you’re feeling your partner, you’re feeling, yeah. Something in, in your VR headset, right.

It’s all about like the mind body experience about learning about your body. Sure. And yeah. So yeah, interactive. It’s mainly just the touch thing that I think would be the best thing about it.

Speaker 1 (13m 24s): So talk a little bit about the male and female toys and Keyon, the award-winning masturbator that can be used as a sex machine.

Speaker 2 (13m 31s): Okay. Yeah. So about two or three years ago we produced the Keon, it’s our flagship male masturbator, as you mentioned. And we kind of wanted to create a modular range of products. So we know that everybody’s body is different. Not everybody that uses our products would identify as men or woman or, you know, use it in the same way that we would expect.

Yeah. We, we just know that everybody’s different. So we decided to create this modular range that would basically upgrade your product from being an interactive text machine, sorry, interactive masturbator, to being able to use it in multiple different ways. So we produced a table clamp so you could stand and use the Keyon. We create, created a multifunctional sex pillow, which allows you to use the Keyon in multiple different ways.

We’ve also got hand straps, neck straps. So basically the user that’s using the Keyon can use it in any different way. And so it was really well received. And this week we have just released the sex machine attachments for it so that you can use it as a sex machine. And yeah, that was something that was really asked for by our customers, especially the webcam industry. They really wanted Oh sure.

A really affordable machine that’s interactive. So yeah, we’re here, we are today. I should have actually probably mentioned also the awesome features about Keon. Keon can connect to our Field Connect app, which allows you to connect to any product on the Field Connect network. Oh, that’s great. That’s any of our female toys. Any of our male toys, or sorry, I should say vibrators and masturbates. You can connect through the internet to one another.

We also have the ability to connect to virtual reality, to 2D content. And recently, about two months ago, we just launched our film AI website, which actually turns any content on the internet interactive. And Keon was the first product. Oh, that’s cool. That was compatible with it. Yeah. And yeah, so we had a Legion of testers, love those guys.

Everyone that purchased the Keon, we had them testing and helping us create our AI technology over the last couple of months, they gave us some really amazing feedback. Yeah. In the coming weeks, we will be launching a mobile version of the Filmy AI so that our customers that own Keon and any of our other products will be able to turn any content that they find, obviously within Legal Limits Interactive. So essentially what that mean, I’m not sure if you knew how it worked before where you would have to, no, why don’t you tell us Before with interactive content, we had partnerships with many different companies.

I think we had like 20 on the list. And it was a really tedious experience, I guess, and job to get videos from those companies, send them to the people that manually encode videos. Wow. Send them back to those companies, upload them with subtitles and yeah. Get the interactive sections on their websites working so that if you came with your Keon, you could connect it to your Field Connect app and from your Field Connect app scan the QR code on a compatible website to feel the porn that you’re watching.

It’s so difficult to keep up with 20 different sites to make sure there’s new content for our customers. Oh, I’m sure. And so we, yeah, we decided it’s time that we just build and work around. And we did that. And it’s working even better than it was with the manual subtitling. We’re working with machine learning technology now and ai. Yeah. The computer is learning from the movements and the videos. So

Speaker 1 (17m 49s): Does that work, does that work with campsites too?

Speaker 2 (17m 53s): Yes, it does. And wow. It’s actually pretty cool. We just debuted it at the Arrow Fame in Hanover a few weeks ago. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Yeah. It’s a B2B novelty show and people didn’t believe it, believe us. And we were like, just type anything you want on Chatter Bay or on whichever site and you know, you can just click play yourself. Like we are not like faking anything. You can just do it yourself. Yeah. And they were so shocked that it was so in sync and yeah, you just pick any video and it works.

So for it’s pretty crazy performer, it’s, yeah, well, for the customer, it’s great that they can now just feel the webcam performer without having to connect through the campsite. Right. And for the webcam performers, we have a similar extension. It’s called Field Performer, and then that’s how they can connect their devices to receive tips. And we’re working on lots of cool things there too, which you see now, I’ve just dropped two other websites that we work on.

Yeah. A lot of things happen in my day.

Speaker 1 (19m 3s): That’s, that’s really cool. I should also disclose to people that this isn’t gonna be running until next year. So people should, when she says just happened in, in a couple of weeks, they’ve already happened. Okay. We got a little backlog of, guess what can I say?

Speaker 2 (19m 19s): Yeah, no worries. That’s, that’s always a good thing, right?

Speaker 1 (19m 22s): It’s a very good thing. So tell me about the Field Stars’ Collection. Which porn stars are you working with?

Speaker 2 (19m 28s): Yeah, so we, yeah, we are working with a lot of models. I think we have currently 18 or 20 out and we have four that are coming out. If you tell me when this will be released, I can tell you who two of them are.

Speaker 1 (19m 48s): It’s okay. Tell me who you have now.

Speaker 2 (19m 50s): Yeah. Okay. So we debuted with Britney Amber last year that, okay. So now I will say in 2021, Britney Amber is, yeah. Quite a famous porn star. She’s been in the adult industry for more than 10 years as far as they understand.

Speaker 1 (20m 8s): Yep.

Speaker 2 (20m 8s): And she’s very engaged with her fans. She’s a cosplay enthusiast, so she has a different audience to some of the other models we work with. We have Kenzie Taylor. Hmm. Do you know her? Yes. Yeah. You know everyone, don’t you? You

Speaker 1 (20m 27s): Don’t have to ask.

Speaker 2 (20m 27s): Go ahead. Yeah. Natalia Star, we launched App Apollo Lara, she’s a Spanish model. Very beautiful.

Speaker 1 (20m 38s): Very beautiful. Yes.

Speaker 2 (20m 39s): Yeah. Then we have Alexis Forks. She’s also been around for forever. Oh, I’m thinking off the top of my head. I didn’t write down Nicola Sha. Yeah, we’ve got Ray Little Black, which I’m not sure you might have heard from her. She heard of Yes. Stepped into the adult industry properly, I guess, with Big debuts, I think last year or the year before. Otherwise, she’s more of an influencer and a Twitch star, and she’s really popular.

This year we, we released Ashley Barbie and Romi Rain, Lauren Phillips and Rea Sunshine, Molly Stewart and Skylar Lowe, who is a Camp Star. I’m not sure if you know her, but she is like, her fans love her. They’re selling so well. The models that we launched this year, they’re so engaged with their customers and their customers are, yeah. They’re really into the technology and Sure. Yeah. They love to see the sex machine in action with the models online.

That’s awesome. Yeah, the list is growing.

Speaker 1 (21m 45s): That’s fantastic. So tell us about your new launches, the Pearl three, the Keon sex machine, and the Butts stroker, what you already haven’t told us.

Speaker 2 (21m 55s): Yeah. Okay. So as I mentioned, Keon is becoming a modular range and we are releasing the sex machine attachment to turn Keon into a sex machine. So if you can, or if you like to do things on cam, this is the perfect product for you because it’s interactive. So if somebody tips you, or if somebody’s controlling you from anywhere in the world, they’re gonna be able to see exactly what the Keon is doing to you in real time.

And or sorry, as the Keyon sex machine. Right. And if you pair it with one of our new products, the Pearl two plus, or the Pearl three, which are interactive vibrators, whenever the person using the Pearl three puts it inside their body, the touch sensors are going to make the Keyon sex machine react in real time in sync. So it’s like you’re basically there having sex with them. It’s just through the internet.

So yeah, that’s how they’re together. And standalone, the Pearl two plus is and battery upgrade from our Pearl two users connect can now use it for 90 minutes, which is awesome. So the fund never has to stop. And the Pearl three is an upgrade of that. We have a three hour battery life, two awesome new colors, which were chosen by our users. Yeah. We did a lot of in-depth research and surveys with our customers to see what they wanted, because Pearl has been our best selling vibrator.

People love it for its power, for its interactivity, and for its touch sensitive sensors inside it. And yeah, we were like, okay, well people love this product so much, why don’t they choose the colors? So we have beautiful pink and a beautiful purple all chosen by our lovely users. That’s cool. I hope that they’re gonna buy, its exactly, it’s gonna be perfect for Cam because the battery lasts three hours.

Unless you’re a powerhouse and you just wanna use it for three hours.

Speaker 1 (24m 13s): My goodness.

Speaker 2 (24m 14s): We do have some customers that are like the battery only last two and a half hours. Like how long using

Speaker 1 (24m 22s): Must much younger than me, I gotta tell you,

Speaker 2 (24m 25s): It’s an experience to connect to, yeah. To content. So they’re doing it like carving out a whole day, like, I’m gonna use my Keon and watch porn for six hours. Whoa. So yeah, it’s an experience. It’s not, it’s not just about,

Speaker 1 (24m 44s): I had a few funny thoughts about that, but I’ll keep ’em to myself. Talk a little bit about the overall growth of interactive toys.

Speaker 2 (24m 53s): Okay. That’s an interesting question. So

Speaker 1 (24m 58s): I know that’s why I asked it.

Speaker 2 (24m 59s): Yeah. Yeah. There we have seen a real growth over the last few years, but we don’t have many competitors in this space. Right. Everybody is doing something kind of a little bit different to each other. So true. That’s, that’s really nice that we don’t have a direct competitor who’s doing exactly the same thing as us. So

Speaker 1 (25m 21s): I’m surprised by that at this point. Really?

Speaker 2 (25m 23s): Yeah. I mean like they’re doing similar, but it’s not the same. Yes. So with, yeah. With other sites, you know, like with the pay sites, it’s the same service, just a different pay payment method or, but with the interactive sex toys, yeah. The sensations are not all the same. We’ve got companies that are producing awesome, like suction and companies that are, yeah. Not producing their own sleeves, but have created like awesome automation.

So the evolution has kind of, yeah. It’s gotten differently for every company, which is a great thing. I think also. Absolutely. There’s, yeah, like for us, I know that our interactivity, we want just better sinking and more interconnectedness. We want you to feel like you’re together, not using technology to be together. Yeah. For us, we’re trying to make the, the experience more seamless, but also Right. Give you more options in how you’re gonna be interactive so you don’t just have to stick to using one type of stimulation.

You can add more stimulation onto Yeah. Every product you’re using. So for us, interactive is just becoming a whole world of interconnectedness and Yeah. A pleasure space for other companies. It’s very difficult to comment on. Sure. Yeah. But

Speaker 1 (26m 49s): Yeah, but I mean, but I mean the old days of dildos and vibrators, that’s certainly gone well beyond that.

Speaker 2 (26m 57s): Definitely. Yeah. We’re, we’re learning more about our bodies and technology is helping in some way. Everybody always thinks that, oh, technology like porn, it’s not good, but you can really learn a lot. Yeah, exactly. A lot of people say that in the mainstream industry, but through technology, like you’re learning about yourself, you’re, yeah, you’re growing with our products, using them with your partner across a distance. You’re learning about your partner’s body, you’re learning about your own body.

You can figure out what you like now you can learn what they like without being together. So I think there’s a lot of room Yeah. For growth for any company in this space, but also for any person using these types of products.

Speaker 1 (27m 45s): Right. Get into a little more detail about exactly how the toys work and how you connect them. Is it all done through the app?

Speaker 2 (27m 54s): Yeah, so yeah. So if you were a long distance couple, you could purchase any of our products. On our website we have this nifty couples feature where you can pick the type of stimulation and you can also pick Yeah. The type of product that you want, maybe a different color, and you can pick your couple set sort of that way so you can build your own couple set. And we did that because we know not everybody would like stroking.

They might like vibration or they might like Yeah. Anything else? Sure. Or oscillation, sorry. So if you are in a long distance relationship, you would pick your two products. So Pearl and Onyx for instance. Right. And wherever you are in the world, you would connect your Pearl to your Field Connect app, which is our mobile application, add your partner as a friend or as a lover. And we’ve kind built like an in app social media, or it’s kind of like WhatsApp, if you guys use WhatsApp in the us Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. And

Speaker 1 (29m 4s): Well, I’m in, well I’m in Thailand, but Oh, I know they use what I, oh, I am, I know, I know they use, I did tell you that I know they use WhatsApp in the US and I use WhatsApp too. So go ahead.

Speaker 2 (29m 14s): Yeah. Okay, perfect. So we have an in-app feature where you can then connect with, like, you can chat with your partner. So your partner will do the same on their side of the world. And in the app you can share your device with them. And once you share your device, your partner can control it either using the app or using the touch sensors on the product. So right with the Pearl, we have a very sensitive touch sensor that goes all the way from the tip to almost till the end of the shaft.

And when you put it in your body, that is gonna send signals to the Onyx or the Keon or whichever product you have on the other side of the world. Right. And yeah, the Keon or the OnX has buttons that can control the pearl in syncs. Sure. So we’re basically creating real-time intimacy. Yeah. While, while you please yourself.

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): Yeah. And so that’s, yeah, I would imagine it would work just as well for same-sex couples. Right?

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): Definitely. So the touch sensors that are in the Pearl are also in our Fuse product. They’re in, yeah. Multiple different products. So yeah, whichever product you use, you can send the signals across. And if it’s one of our products that’s not a vibrate, sorry, not a like phallic shaped vibrator, right. Like our esca or our cleona, you can use the app to send touch signal signals to your partner.

Speaker 1 (30m 49s): I’m gonna have to go to your website and see what all these products are because you’re, you’re, you’re losing me frankly. But no, it’s, it’s, it’s too much. Sounds like there’s a lot of variety. A lot of variety. By the way, I kind of had a funny thought you kind of said, you said it’s, it’s kind of like WhatsApp and I just had this funny thought about the app asking you if you’d like to add your contacts. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (31m 12s): Just that would be funny.

Speaker 1 (31m 14s): Just a funny thought. Just a funny

Speaker 2 (31m 15s): Thought. Yeah. And then you’re like, hi mom, this is my Field Connect app profile.

Speaker 1 (31m 22s): Anyway, what you were talking about earlier was, feel me, ai, right?

Speaker 2 (31m 27s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (31m 27s): Okay. Okay. And that’s what it’s, that’s what it’s properly called as far as syncing with the porn sites and with the CAM sites.

Speaker 2 (31m 37s): Yeah. So we created a new extension, feel me, AI that eliminates the use of the app. Right? So what a user does is they take their Keyon or their Onyx or whichever product is compatible and they create a feel me, AI subscription, all of our subscriptions come with a three day free trial. And so you can try it out, you can see if you like it. Most of our users do not being biased.

Speaker 1 (32m 11s): No, I You don’t sound biased at all.

Speaker 2 (32m 13s): Yeah. And so using their product, you need to have Bluetooth on your computer.

Speaker 1 (32m 20s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (32m 21s): You download our extension and you connect your Keyon to your phone, sorry, to your computer. Ok. Directly on the Chrome browser, there’s Bluetooth function. Right. And once you do that, you can go to any website you want that is legal and watch any porn you want. And it will make your device react in sync with what you see on screen. And the extension itself has multiple features on it. Right. So you can choose if there’s no action in the video that the device still keeps moving or that it stops.

So you feel like you’re right there in the video. Interesting. But most people don’t like that. We also have other features that when the video is done that it can finish you so that one would home. Yeah, exactly. Some people, yeah. Wanna just skip to the next video, but other people wanna get done right after the video is done. Oh

Speaker 1 (33m 21s): Yeah. You would hope, you would hope, you know, I had one, I had one question about it. You, you of course said a couple times content that is legal. Are you talking about legal as in legal legalities or are you talking about owned content versus stolen content?

Speaker 2 (33m 40s): Yeah, so we basically have taken the top porn sites in the world that are Yeah. With their own content or with uploaded content. Right. We’ve whitelisted them, but there’s a lot of

Speaker 1 (33m 55s): Got it

Speaker 2 (33m 56s): Sites on the internet that have Yes. Bestiality and other types of Yeah. Sound things like, yeah. So we’ve blocked things like that. We’ve blocked YouTube cause we dunno what you’re gonna connect to there. That’s true. And yeah, if you believe any of this is an error, you are welcome as a customer to contact our developers and they will look into whitelisting the site if it doesn’t breach any legal or underage Yeah.

Requirements I guess you could say.

Speaker 1 (34m 28s): Got it.

Speaker 2 (34m 29s): Got it. So we just, we we, so it’s really both.

Speaker 1 (34m 32s): So it’s really both. It’s sites that have stolen content, it’s sites and it’s sites that have illegal content as well in addition to, to copyright infringement content.

Speaker 2 (34m 43s): Exactly. Ok. So sounds good. We’re still, we’re still very new at this, so we’ve been getting a lot of advice from big companies. Yes. Big players in the adult industry about which way to go because yeah, a lot of big sites that we do know have had problems in the past.

Speaker 1 (35m 1s): Well there’s a lot of gray area there, there’s a lot of gray area there. The top, the top tube sites in the world unfortunately have content uploaded to them that is copyrighted content that is stolen, copyrighted content I should say. But I know that you porn has, or rather a PornHub has gotten rid of all that. I don’t know if their sister sites did. I’m assuming they did. So that would be most of the major tubes in addition with X hamster, which I’m not sure what their moderation policies are.

Speaker 2 (35m 36s): Yeah, it’s quite difficult, especially if people are uploading content, like their quality assurance and review process must be quite tedious for those people that have to double check those videos. Yeah. Unless it’s machine, I’m not sure.

Speaker 1 (35m 53s): Yep, absolutely. So how can people make money with you by suggesting kiu to their friends?

Speaker 2 (35m 60s): So we have two ways. We have our lovely affiliate program affiliate, I believe you know Emma, sorry, you know Ella and Thomas? Yes. Or maybe, yeah. One or both of them. And they are our affiliate in-house affiliate network. And we also have an influencer program. So if you’re not into creating reviews and product reviews, you can also sign up to our influencer program where you can get a, you can get a coupon code and a link and you can just promote it on your social media.

But for most people, I guess they listen to this podcast. Joining our affiliate program would be the most interesting option for you. We do offer a 20% cut on Yeah. Affiliate sales if you promote our products through your affiliate links and yeah, it, it goes on our whole range of products.

Speaker 1 (36m 60s): Ok.

Speaker 2 (37m 0s): Yeah. And let’s see, yeah, we work on revshare and yeah, I think that’s the most interesting model. We have a lot of reviewers, a lot of webcam performers, adult sites that are all our affiliates now with Filmy ai. We are also starting an affiliate program there. We’re still working out the affiliate details, but maybe I can update you once that’s done.

Speaker 1 (37m 27s): Sounds good. So what type of adult websites are working the best for your company to promote your products through your affiliate network?

Speaker 2 (37m 36s): Adult time is a very good one. They created an interactive section on their website and we created interactive, pro interactive content with them. And they drive a lot of sales float for free strip chat. They also drive a lot of sales. That is primarily because the models use our products online and they love it. Or at least I think they love it. We offer offer very good deals for the webcam performers to join.

Yeah. To join our, our network.

Speaker 1 (38m 10s): Right. So tell us about Feel Performer. What is it and how does it work?

Speaker 2 (38m 15s): Okay. So just like feel me, AI Feel performer is our webcam side of things. And again, in the past we had a sort of tedious way for webcam performers to connect. You had to go to your webcam site, you had to get a special QR code, connect it with your phone and connect that way. And we have a lot of customers in Columbia and Romania and a lot of them work out of studios and you don’t have internet in the studios, so it’s all done with land cables.

So using your phone to connect was all always causing connection problems. Sure. And so we were like, let’s just make things easier. And so we built a field performer and again, the webcam model just has to connect using Bluetooth to our extension and they choose their tip settings. They can choose their OBS settings. Connect. Yeah. Any toy. I think we have six brands on there now, or five brands.

So we’ve got Kiro, we’ve got Hot Octopus. Oh my God. We vibe. And so our customers are not just, yeah, just confined to using a Kiro product through there. You can use any of the big brands and what Field Performer does is it reads the screen of your webcam site. So when a customer tips you a hundred dollars, if that’s what you put into your tip settings, your device will vibrate to whatever setting you attributed to a hundred dollars.

So

Speaker 1 (39m 53s): It’s a lot of vibrating.

Speaker 2 (39m 54s): Yeah, I know some, some people are crazy, right. Or they enjoy it. I was talking to a webcam model last week and she was like, when I used to work webcam, I was sitting vibrating for eight hours a day and when I got my first office job, I didn’t know what to do with myself. I had to go to the car every lunchtime to to masturbate because I was just struggling. Like you’re so used to sitting and Yeah. Sitting, sitting

Speaker 1 (40m 20s): There getting off every five minutes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40m 23s): Oh my God. Exactly. You said office job was a big change for her.

Speaker 1 (40m 27s): Oh, goodness gracious. Yeah. Vibrating for eight hours. Oh my goodness. I just can only imagine. And probably had to peel her off the ceiling or something. That’s Wow. So how can someone find Kiro online?

Speaker 2 (40m 43s): Yeah, so you can go to www dot Kiro, that’s spelled K I I R O o.com. And on our Kiro website you can find everything you need to find out about Field Connect app, also about Feel Me, ai, and you can also get redirected to our performer portal to field performers so you can get connected and get online.

Speaker 1 (41m 10s): Fantastic. Well, Ashton, I would like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Side Broker Talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (41m 19s): Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really had a great time and hopefully next time we’ll have some more products to talk about.

Speaker 1 (41m 27s): I hope so. It was nice. It was nice to have you. Thank you. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (41m 31s): Thank you and have a great day.

Speaker 1 (41m 33s): My broker tip today is part three of How to Buy a website. Last week we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do? Once you’ve either reached the broker of the site or the seller, review the information about it, the broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years. That’s up to date. If it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, get a username and password for the site so that you can review it.

Ask how often the site is updated, get some history on the site, how long has it been in business, the story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content, and how much of it has current technologies like 4k. Find out if all of the content is exclusive to that site. Ask the seller if the content has ever been on V O D or D V D, see if there are any clip stores. The content is on. Find out how much the content cost to produce and what the current cost of production is.

Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the owner. Do they do the shooting themselves or do they hire someone to do it? And if there is an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site? Find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day. Ask them what is the retention rate on the site, and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic. Ask for Google Analytics access so you can see where the traffic comes from.

This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. Then if everything looks good to you and you want the site, it’s time to make an offer. Only you can decide what the site is worth to you. If you’re working with a broker such as, oh, I don’t know, adult Site broker, for instance. Of course your broker can help you determine the value of the site. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Elizabeth Dell of Amorus.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Ashton Egner. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Alison Boden, executive director of the Free Speech Coalition in part two of our interview. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASBcash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a review site network, which has been growing at a good rate for years. It features one of the largest industry directories in the world. It has over 900 pages and has been gaining great traction with Google, with lots of room to grow, it already gets a huge amount of organic traffic more than other review directories.

With more content, it’s ranking well for all the main keywords. The network is making 50,000 profit most months with lots of room to grow the best month. The network made over 68,000 in profit. Profit for the year of 2022 was 550,000. The network has some of the best writers in the industry. There are also on-call developers and a full-time virtual assistant who knows every function of the site. The owner would be willing to give the new owner an outline of what could be done to further expand the business in the future.

Only 2.12 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Alison Bowden of Free Speech Coalition. Alison, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk. Thanks for having me. Now Alison is a veteran adult entertainment industry exec. That’s a mouthful, who served on the fscs board of directors for over three years, including as its president. Before taking on the role of executive director since starting her adult industry career in 2003, Allison has held a wide variety of marketing technology and leadership positions at companies like Adult Empire Game Link, video Box, and kink.com, where she was c e O.

She also serves pineapple support as its board president. When do you sleep? Allison holds a bachelor’s degree in sociology with a concentration in women’s studies from the University of Pittsburgh. You can follow her on social media at at Allison Bowden. That’s Alison with an L. She enjoys hiking, drinking, wine diving, and listening to podcasts. No doubt, a steady diet of adult site broker talk. The Free Speech coalition’s mission is to protect the rights and freedoms of both the workers and businesses in the adult industry.

Their organization functions as a resource, a leader, and a tool for the communities that they serve. They take pride in fighting to alleviate the social stigma, misinformation, and discriminatory policies that affect those who work in the adult industry for more than 25 years. Wow. They’ve been fighting and winning impossible battles from the Supreme Court to the ballot box and back again. I saw you at AVN and you were having meetings with various platforms. You were moving so fast, it wasn’t funny.

Didn’t even hardly get a chance to say hi. What do you see as the biggest issues facing the industry?

Speaker 2 (4m 25s): I think censorship in general has been a huge and building issue, right? I think these things are all kind of connected where the stigma of being the adult industry is hurting us with getting bank accounts. It’s hurting us because legislatures feel the need to say that we’re a public health problem. Yeah. And they don’t recognize how much the adult industry actually does extremely well. I’ve been asked so many times, well, don’t you, is there any checking of IDs of the people who are performing?

And I’m like, are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (5m 2s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (5m 3s): How do you know so little that you don’t even realize?

Speaker 1 (5m 6s): Here’s the thing about, here’s the thing about politicians. They know so little. Have you ever heard them talk about technology? I’m sure you have when they, when they’ve done their hearings on technology and they’ve got somebody on from Google or Apple, some of the questions they ask,

Speaker 2 (5m 24s): Oh, it’s painful.

Speaker 1 (5m 25s): It’s insane. They don’t know anything.

Speaker 2 (5m 28s): It’s so crazy.

Speaker 1 (5m 29s): They know how to work their phone. That’s about it.

Speaker 2 (5m 32s): Exactly. And and I, and I guess I shouldn’t have been shocked, but when we went to Dec DC in December to lobby, you know, on banking discrimination, right. It was very much just actually explaining the problem. Because no one in Capitol Hill is even, they don’t understand the basics. Right. So it’s just a lot of education. Sure. And shockingly, they’re, they’ve been very open to hearing

Speaker 1 (5m 59s): Really

Speaker 2 (5m 60s): What our industry is going through and Oh yeah. When you bring a performer like Ali Ray, sorry, Ali Venox in, and she tells her personal story about losing over 30 accounts, not being able to be on her own mortgage and what that did to her. Hmm. These people, they, they understand like, oh wow, this is happening to individuals, real human beings. Yeah. This is a problem.

Speaker 1 (6m 28s): Yes. Wow. Was it with Democrats and Republicans?

Speaker 2 (6m 33s): Believe it or not. Yes. Wow. With both sides. And of course, you know, the, the interests are slightly different. One’s more focused on hello, freedom to be a business or to conduct your affairs. The other one is more focused on, you know, the fact that people who are already having struggles, you know, our industry is truck full of g lgbtq people of color, other people who are marginalized. Sure.

Now they’re being further marginalized, but frankly by

Speaker 1 (7m 5s): The laws. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (7m 6s): Yeah. They were, they were both actually like, oh, wow, that’s not fair.

Speaker 1 (7m 11s): Geez, that’s wonderful news. That was gonna be my next question, but that is just, that is just wonderful news that they at least were open. Here’s the problem I see. To, to get any politician, even most Democrats, cuz I know we have some Democrats that are willing to stand up for us, but unfortunately, from what I’ve seen, they’re very few. The problem is to get politicians to come out as in favor of anything that is perceived to help the adult industry seems to be like pulling teeth.

Speaker 2 (7m 52s): Yeah. I I definitely don’t think that it’s like a, a strategy that they’re gonna pursue kind of coming out and saying they’re supporting big porn. However. Yeah. I think that honestly the, the big strides toward embracing sex worker rights we’ve made in the United States in the last few years are actually what has opened their eyes really. And, and let them kind of listen to this.

Yeah, for sure. Hmm. Cause you know, in the last few years of the first time that people are actually, you know, the presidential candidates in 2020 actually had to answer where they stand on sex work, decriminalization.

Speaker 1 (8m 36s): Oh, sex work is from your mouth, from your mouth to God’s ears,

Speaker 2 (8m 40s): You know? And I, and I think that, that finally, it is not as stigmatized as it as it was. And you know, obviously it’s a little easier to have that conversation on the D side, but Yeah. You know, knowing that you can walk in and say, look, you have, with the advent of only fans and other platforms, especially during the pandemic, right. Your district probably has five to 10,000 active sex workers, legal, working in it right now.

Speaker 1 (9m 12s): Those are voters.

Speaker 2 (9m 13s): These are your constituents. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, it’s a bit more compelling and I think that people are a little more open to listening than they used to be. Which isn’t to say that it’s not gonna be difficult, obviously. Right, right. Or it’s not gonna take a while, but it’s encouraging. It’s encouraging.

Speaker 1 (9m 32s): Right. Absolutely. So you talked about age verification. That’s obviously happening in Europe as well. In fact, it, it started to happen in Europe first. The UK’s been kicking it around for what seems like decades. How is the F S C approaching this?

Speaker 2 (9m 50s): Well, so as a, as an industry, you know, our main concern, we never want minors on our websites.

Speaker 1 (9m 60s): Amen.

Speaker 2 (10m 0s): Like, it’s just, it’s not what we want. It’s a, many of us are parents and we don’t want that. Or we’re just normal humans who don’t necessarily want any children looking at porn. And if you’re really, you know, looking at the nuts and bolts of it, they don’t have money. We don’t want them, we don’t. If there were

Speaker 1 (10m 21s): A That’s very true. I I’ve never heard it put that way. That’s why I laughed. But that’s very true.

Speaker 2 (10m 26s): You know, they’re just, they’re not people that, that we want on our websites, but we also don’t want to make it difficult for adults to access the, the material that, that they deserve to, to right.

Speaker 1 (10m 41s): Or to have to put their, or they have to put their private information.

Speaker 2 (10m 45s): And that’s the scary thing. You know, look, given how many data breaches and Yeah. Other invasions of privacy that we’ve seen in the last few years, it just, it’s not wise to have people have to put in their, their photo ID from the government or, you know, do a face scan that some company says is getting deleted. But what I don’t know that, I think that our main concern is limiting access to minors in a way that doesn’t destroy everyone’s business.

Right. Right. Like, let’s say, you know, site number one institutes avs tomorrow, all their traffic is just going to site number two that isn’t complying. Right. So making sure that it is equitable, that, you know, you can still do business while doing Right. By, you know, minors, frankly, parents need to be involved with this. I don’t understand why almost none of them, them are using device filters, parental controls, all of the tools that they have at their disposal

Speaker 1 (11m 59s): Because they’re lazy.

Speaker 2 (12m 0s): Our websites, well, right. Let’s, let’s trust the pornographers, keep my kids outta from looking at their websites instead of doing my job.

Speaker 1 (12m 9s): Right, exactly. You talked about breaches, the Ashley Madison one should scare everyone because a lot of information came out in the public domain that embarrassed a lot of people

Speaker 2 (12m 25s): And, and thinking about the destruction that that can do to people’s lives. I mean Yes. So let’s talk about my own employer. If kink.com had a giant data breach and then somebody goes into a divorce and that they found that their ex-spouse is in the kink.com list, do you think they’re not gonna try to use that in a custody battle?

Speaker 1 (12m 50s): Oh hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (12m 51s): Absolutely. They’ll, yeah. So it’s really dangerous for everyone to, for these legislators to come up with these half baked ideas and think that, you know, well it’s for the children. Well actually I think it’s probably harming everyone.

Speaker 1 (13m 7s): Oh yeah, absolutely. Well, you talk and you also, you talk about age verification. Let me give you my take on it and you tell me what you think. I think a long time ago the industry should have gotten together. I, I say that tongue in cheek to a degree because the industry doesn’t get together on anything as you well know and said, okay, we are going to establish an age verification standard for the industry and come up with something. There would’ve been a lot of companies would’ve jumped on board to be providers.

We would’ve already had it. And then governments really would have nothing to say, cuz we’re already verifying age. The problem now is we’ve got a third of the states in the US or something close to that proposing that and a lot of countries.

Speaker 2 (14m 1s): Yeah. I mean, I think the proliferation of free content hurt this business in Oh yeah. So many ways. Oh yeah. So many.

Speaker 1 (14m 11s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (14m 11s): You know, of

Speaker 1 (14m 12s): Course. And of course the whole PornHub thing with MasterCard and Visa, that was just so damaging and it could have been avoided.

Speaker 2 (14m 22s): Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, look, if I had a, if I had a time machine, that’d be one of the things I would do. Maybe go back and, and encourage somebody else to buy, buy PornHub, but Right. You know, knowing that that bell can’t be on wrong, I think people did what they thought was right at the time. You know, like I said, nobody wants to be the only one doing it because that just means you’re outta outta business. And when the free sites refuse to, you know, comply, I mean, and even now, if, if PornHub complies like they’re doing in Louisiana, they’re the people who went to PornHub and got, you know, Hey, I need your id.

They just went to a different tube site. Sure. So until we can all agree on something, and like you said, very difficult, at the best of times, we definitely are in a moment where we need to find a way to reward the people who, who do the right thing. Right. And the right thing. Meaning, you know, the thing that both preserves their businesses and the lack of access to minors. I think that, you know, we really have to think hard about what is gonna, what’s gonna work as opposed to

Speaker 1 (15m 39s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (15m 41s): What these legislators are doing.

Speaker 1 (15m 43s): Along, along the lines of all this, I had an interview a few days ago with Todd Spates of Yanks Cash and he, I asked him, he’s, he’s gonna, he has a book coming out by the way, it’s gonna be very interesting. And he said The biggest problem with our industry is a lack of leadership. One thing he said was he never sees the three or four major tube sites sitting on a panel, the CEOs of those sites and talking and taking questions.

And I went, you know, you’re right. I haven’t either, you barely see any of the top management at shows and that’s just not right. Cuz those are the guys that are really ricking in the bucks and they should be more responsible to what’s happening in our industry because a lot of the negative stuff that’s going on is being targeted right at them.

Speaker 2 (16m 45s): That’s very true. And I’m sure that’s part of the reason they’re not showing up in public.

Speaker 1 (16m 50s): Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16m 52s): You know, I would love it if the major, you know, the decision makers at these large companies did see themselves as more part of our industry because whether we like it or not, they are. And I absolutely encourage, you know, if you need a panel, fscs happy to organize it, but like, I really do think having those folks understand their place in this industry and show feel a part of it, feel responsible for it because they are.

Right. And then work with the rest of the industry to make things better. Right. That’d be incredible.

Speaker 1 (17m 30s): Yeah. Well, only fans is another one. Obviously. They’re all of a sudden the biggest concern in our industry, you know, and there are, there are other huge companies that make a ton of money. So Yeah. You guys should organize something. In fact, I suggested to Todd, I said, FSC should do something like that. One comment he had was, yeah, FSC is great, but the, but the only problem is FSC relies on sponsorship money and Oh,

Speaker 2 (18m 5s): That’s not the problem.

Speaker 1 (18m 6s): Okay. Yeah. See, I didn’t think so either. I acknowledged what he said, but yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 (18m 15s): No, it makes sense. You don’t wanna piss off the people who are paying your bills.

Speaker 1 (18m 19s): Right, right,

Speaker 2 (18m 19s): Right. But I can tell you that only fans isn’t a member. So I’m not worried about pissing them off. I think the biggest, the biggest deficit,

Speaker 1 (18m 27s): They’re not a member. That’s amazing.

Speaker 2 (18m 29s): Yeah. No, they are not interested. Evidently we’ve approached them a number of times Sure. And would still welcome their membership now. Yeah. However, I think that there’s also a misconception that FSC has any particular power. I can’t make anybody show up to a a panel or No,

Speaker 1 (18m 49s): No. You can’t drag and get ’em dragging and screaming there. Right.

Speaker 2 (18m 53s): No, no. Although I would try and I promise you that

Speaker 1 (18m 56s): I will. Yes, I know you would Alison, I know you would. I know you. Yes, you most certainly would. So what are the other initiatives that you care about the most?

Speaker 2 (19m 8s): So I have been doing my, you know, 20, 23 goals with my team, which I used to do in the fall, but turns out planning for all these trade shows, lot of work. So we’re

Speaker 1 (19m 23s): Finally, yeah, it’s pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (19m 24s): Everything now. Definitely discrimination, definitely avs. We’re also kind of looking at how to capitalize on, on kind of, like I said, the industry is actually run really well, but we need a way to, to demonstrate that and to get credit for it. So working on industry standards that are then verified. Right. And so when, you know, let’s call it a good housekeeping seal. If a website has this seal, you know, that they are, you know, compliant with all, all the models have been age verified.

Oh, I like that. Everything on the website is consensual. Hmm. There is a, an adjudication process if they’re, you know, or allegations that something isn’t consensual. All of these, these sorts of different standards that we’re just starting to kind of sketch out.

Speaker 1 (20m 20s): I

Speaker 2 (20m 20s): Love it. Although I’m sure we all have it in our pocket, you know what they should be, but Right. But actually putting it down, getting, putting in place a mechanism to verify it and to, to sort of mediate issues. That is a big initiative this year. Right. Because we think that, you know, when you can prove that you are a good citizen, it will be easier to get other people to treat you like one.

Speaker 1 (20m 46s): That’s a fantastic idea.

Speaker 2 (20m 49s): Well, thank you.

Speaker 1 (20m 50s): Yeah. I love it. So FSC is an organization that is sometimes taken for granted by the industry. That’s actually an understatement. You know, I, I know over the years when you ask people about fsc, you get a lot of shrugs of the shoulders and it’s like, yeah, but what do they really do? And so I know you meet a fair number of people who are in the industry but aren’t members now when you talk to them, what’s your 62nd elevator pitch to join up?

Speaker 2 (21m 23s): Well, I don’t know if I have even 60 seconds. I try not to talk that long, but here’s what I’ll say. I was in their shoes. I didn’t know what FSC did or why I should give it money. One of the first things I did when I took over kink.com was cut our FSC donations by three quarters. And that is why my goal is not only to get things done for the industry, but to actually let you know what we’re up to.

Yeah. It’s important that we are fighting for banking fairness. It’s important that we are trying to influence the way that AVS gets implemented. It’s important that we are actually pushing forward and trying to get the industry credit for all the good things it does. And we have to involve our members. We, we Right. Have not done a really great job of doing that. And so we’ve been able to accomplish a lot since I got on board and I’m really excited about what our plans are for 2023.

And so I’d love, I’d love your membership because I think you can be involved in making your own business more profitable and benefiting the industry as a whole. Yes. That’s,

Speaker 1 (22m 44s): That’s good. That’s really good. I mean, everyone should be a member. I’ve always said that. I said that when I had pay sites. I say that now that I do B2B services like website brokering. And just because you’re not a content provider or a pay site owner or a tube site owner, it’s equally important that you’re a member of fsc because FSC is doing things to try to not only help the industry, but really save the industry.

Isn’t that right?

Speaker 2 (23m 21s): It’s been, it’s been a rough, rough year or two. I mean, yes. You know, we’ve faced our challenges in the last 20 years, but honestly I have not seen this level of attack from organizations that are just trying to get rid of porn from really a troubling culture war, you know, right wing and extreme left wing. You know, there are really frightening people who call themselves feminists who are trying to, to destroy our rights as well.

And so being under attack from all sides. Yeah. It’s a unique, at least in my lifetime situation, I know that, that things were definitely much, much worse before, you know, before I got into the business and, and we are standing on the shoulders of, of real giants and we’re facing our own really, really dangerous moment right now.

Speaker 1 (24m 20s): Yeah. I mean I’ve been in the industry over 20 years myself, I don’t remember an attack level that’s been turned up this high and it almost seems like, in fact, I’m sure of it that the Republicans are competing to see who can try to screw us harder.

Speaker 2 (24m 43s): It does seem like that. Like they have a bet. I dunno.

Speaker 1 (24m 47s): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every day I open up ex biz, why not? And there’s another article about somebody who’s trying to screw us over, somebody who’s passing a very onerous age verification law. Somebody who’s trying to ban porn, somebody who’s trying to get rid of L G B T books and oh my gosh, somebody who’s trying to make being L G B T or being in porn illegal.

It’s just Oh yeah. Freaking insane.

Speaker 2 (25m 26s): We created last year an action center and the software that powers it, you know, I, I get legislative alerts when things that I have certain keywords, and at the beginning of this year, it’s been an avalanche

Speaker 1 (25m 43s): I know of. I get those new

Speaker 2 (25m 45s): Bills. Yeah. It’s, it’s crazy. And, and they’re, they’re nuttier than ever before. I mean, there are, you know, West Virginia just trying to ban all adult establishments. Okay. And then you’ve got a half dozen, probably more of bills that are trying to make drag shows. Like anywhere that you have a drag show, now it’s an adult establishment. So it needs to be treated basically like a strip club. I mean, these people are really, really bonkers.

Speaker 1 (26m 14s): Totally. And if you, if you extend that, if you take that to the next level, the next thing they’re gonna go after is all porn.

Speaker 2 (26m 24s): Absolutely. The biggest non legislative enemy of this industry is nkosi, the former morality and media folks. Oh yeah. Who are funded

Speaker 1 (26m 34s): Those fuckers.

Speaker 2 (26m 35s): The, the millions and millions. And they’re, I mean, they’ve got an entire legal center doing lawsuits claiming that that PornHub or traffickers, they are winning the media war. They’re out there spreading lies. Yep. And we’re trying to fight back. Yeah. We’re doing our best.

Speaker 1 (26m 57s): Well, and it doesn’t seem like any, it doesn’t seem like any of the mainstream media are fact checking this stuff.

Speaker 2 (27m 5s): Very, very few, you know. Right.

Speaker 1 (27m 8s): It’s,

Speaker 2 (27m 8s): And it’s really disappointing Right. Because we, you mentioned Mike Stab.

Speaker 1 (27m 14s): Yes. He,

Speaker 2 (27m 15s): He’s incredible. And he’s out there, he is not hard to find. He’s, yes. He is essentially in many ways the spokesperson for our industry. Right. And he can absolutely fact check all of these lines. And I, they at this point, they’re avoiding it. They don’t wanna

Speaker 1 (27m 31s): Right. But as great as Mike is, and he’s phenomenal and he’s already done an interview on this podcast, and I plan to have him back because this thing’s moving very, very fast. Unfortunately, what Mike has to say and what the mainstream media have to say, people are gonna believe the mainstream media.

Speaker 2 (27m 56s): Oh yeah. No, I mean, we don’t have the, you know, a per 1% of the reach of people who are ideologically opposed to us. I mean, I think it’s clear that Nick Christoff doesn’t like porn.

Speaker 1 (28m 12s): Gee, do you think,

Speaker 2 (28m 14s): You know, it’s, it’s not about they, they find these stories, they make them up, whatever it is they’re doing with, you know, the lives they spread about our industry. Mm. And they, they just, they’re coming from a perspective that they think that most people assume, you know? Yeah. Porn’s bad. It’s a, it’s a basic assumption. You know, part of what we try to do is at least complicate, if not completely, you know, turn it on its head. Like, well, is it, I mean, how is it bad?

Yeah. Well the, the studies you’re using are actually really not scientifically rigorous. Look at these studies. I

Speaker 1 (28m 51s): Mean, all, they’re all flawed. They’re all flawed. Right. I mean, you can, and frankly

Speaker 2 (28m 55s): There aren’t a lot of

Speaker 1 (28m 56s): You can do,

Speaker 2 (28m 56s): But there are good ones.

Speaker 1 (28m 58s): Yeah. And you, but you can do a study about anything Okay. And come up with a conclusion that porn is the worst thing in the world.

Speaker 2 (29m 8s): Many people have.

Speaker 1 (29m 9s): Yes. I know. There are tons of them out there. And you look at ’em and you’re like, huh.

Speaker 2 (29m 16s): Oh yeah. And they, you know, they surveyed 12 people who, they founded a, a Walmart and these people said porn isn’t great. I mean, it’s, it’s that level of scientific rigor.

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): Yes, yes. In the, in the Bible belt. They did that. Right. When, when Christoph published his articles, I canceled my subscription to the New York Times. I vote, yeah. I vote with my money. And those people, I, I’m surprised New York Times even let it happen. I could see the New York Post. Okay. I could see the Washington Examiner, but the New York Times, I used to have some respect for them.

Speaker 2 (29m 59s): It’s so disappointing. And there are a few mainstream journalists who I think are doing right. Not, not just covering us, you know, positively, but actually covering us fairly. Yes. I think that, you know, you’ve got Sam Cole advice, Melissa Jira grant, a handful who are, who actually took the time to understand the issues.

Speaker 1 (30m 23s): Right.

Speaker 2 (30m 24s): But they are the absolute exception, not the rule. Oh

Speaker 1 (30m 28s): Yeah. That’s probably 1% or less.

Speaker 2 (30m 32s): Hmm. Easily.

Speaker 1 (30m 35s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30m 36s): So I know it’s so easy to get bummed.

Speaker 1 (30m 39s): Well, we get bombed, but I think we’re all in a fighting stance and I don’t think anybody’s really given up the ship yet. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (30m 51s): I really hope not. And to be honest, you know, so after ex biz or, or at the very end of Exs, we had our FSC summit and that was like a full day of, of panels that we did. And I got a, I was exhausted, you know, you go to Avian Ex and Yes. Was I, so I was like, oh my God, how am I gonna make it? And then that day I have just been energized incredibly by that experience because people were so engaged, they’re so ready for this fight.

They Yes, really, yes. Are excited to defend this industry and fight back against this. And it’s, yeah, kind of given me new, new excitement and purpose in my job, to be honest. It’s, it was really great. See,

Speaker 1 (31m 37s): That’s, that’s fantastic. Yeah. Thebus show was, was really great. I was really pleasantly surprised cuz the last time I was there three years ago, it was rather small. And you know, Alec and Moe really built that thing up and it was, it was awesome. And then the award show was fantastic. Thanks for beating me for community figure of the year. I do appreciate that very much, Allison. You certainly deserved, what can I say? You know, that, you know, that was, I don’t know if I told you that was my first nomination ever.

So it was very special.

Speaker 2 (32m 9s): Oh my

Speaker 1 (32m 10s): Gosh. Yeah. I know. All these years in the industry, I guess I’m a cool kid now. But anyway, never wanted to be a cool kid. But yeah, that was a, that was a really nice event and I couldn’t be happier for you and I mean that sincerely, somebody had to beat me and I, I knew, I knew I wasn’t gonna beat the thing I was up against. I mean, the people I was up against you lea those people. I

Speaker 2 (32m 33s): Couldn’t believe.

Speaker 1 (32m 34s): Well, I mean, look at the, look at the list of the, of the nominees. It was insane. And I looked at it and I went, well you know, it’ll be a nice experience. I’m not gonna win, but one of my friends, cuz all of you are my friends, all the other people that were nominated I know. Well yeah. Friends. And I was like, oh, this is just gonna be fantastic. And thank you very much to the industry for nominating me. So I, I was gonna say thank you to the

Speaker 2 (33m 1s): Academy. You’ve got my vote next time.

Speaker 1 (33m 2s): Okay. I was gonna say thank you to the academy. But anyway, let’s fast forward to the end of your time. When you finally are finished at fsc, what do you hope to have achieved for the organization and for the industry?

Speaker 2 (33m 16s): I haven’t even that day, so, so Hm. You’re doing this in real time with me. Yeah. But I would love it if, if I could at least follow the campsite rule. You know, you leave it better than you found it.

Speaker 1 (33m 30s): I think you already have

Speaker 2 (33m 31s): That day. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. That day will be fulfilling to me if people in industry can get a bank account and not have it closed on them with no warning and no reason. There are folks who come into our industry and are, know exactly what they’re supposed to do to comply with all the rules and regulations and do everything well. And that’s been established and it’s easy for them to do. And they are able to have extremely successful businesses without government harassment.

Amen. That would be incredible. I hope that when I leave, performers are even more empowered and treated even better and really appreciated for the incredible work they do, for how they’ve created all of our livelihoods. Yeah. And I, there’s a little piece of me that’s hoping that I’ve been able to bring the sex toy folks a little bit into the fold. Yeah. And, and kind of, you know, make some solidarity and, and work with them a little bit more because I think we’re all in this together.

That’d be amazing.

Speaker 1 (34m 44s): I agree. And the novelty industry and the content industry really, there’s a lot of crossover and we should work more together, shouldn’t we?

Speaker 2 (34m 58s): Oh, I absolutely, and that’s actually why I was at AME this year because we’re starting a group for the pleasure products industry. Oh, that’s neat. For them. Think it’s a, you know, decide it’s being founded right now. Really, really early talks.

Speaker 1 (35m 15s): That’s

Speaker 2 (35m 16s): Neat. And if anyone’s in pleasure products and wants to get involved, please reach out because Yeah, I think we have a lot in common that I think a lot of times the pleasure products folks are like, ah, we’re not porn, we’re not, you know, but everybody else outside, they all think you’re exactly like the pornographers. Yeah. And we all need, we all need to fight for acceptance and for, you know, basic rights. Let’s do it together.

Speaker 1 (35m 46s): Absolutely. Well, let me know if I can be of any help, because I’ve got some contacts in that space. I was interviewed on one podcast for the pleasure products industry and I get the impression that they’re pretty heavy duty people. I kinda get the impression you’re not even close to having being done there. Do I kind of get the impression that you’re not gonna leave until you feel like your work is done?

Speaker 2 (36m 15s): Oh yeah. No, I’ve got a lot of work to do. I’m in this to win this for sure.

Speaker 1 (36m 20s): That’s fantastic. Listening to you gives me a lot more confidence about the future of the industry, Allison. It really does.

Speaker 2 (36m 27s): Thank you. I that’s, that’s a huge compliment.

Speaker 1 (36m 31s): Well, it comes from the heart. Well Allison, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (36m 41s): It was my pleasure. Thank you. And I look forward to it.

Speaker 1 (36m 45s): Me too. My broker tip today is part two of How to Buy a Site. Last week we discussed first deciding the type of site you wanna buy and then establishing what your budget is Next, it’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult Site Broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can also act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site.

Other places to look, looker boards like ex.net and gf y.com. But to be completely frank, unless what you’re looking for is a really low end property, you’re probably not gonna find what you’re looking for there. Of course, you could contact site owners yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living. It’s a major hassle and it can be really hard to even find out who owns a site. Almost all adult sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar.

So when you send them an email, it will be to an anonymous address. And in most cases, the emails aren’t returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out. We’ll talk about the subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with Ashton Enger from Kiiroo and Feel Robotics. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk.

I’d once again like to thank my guest, Alison Boden. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Alison Bowden, the executive director of the Free Speech Coalition, in part one of a two-part interview. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a streaming network of sites for independent performers. Most of the traffic comes from North America. It’s the Shopify of streaming video and offers turnkey streaming sites to content creators. Creators provide some information about their brand, choose a look and feel, upload their images and videos, and they launch their streaming site on the domain of their choice in minutes.

The platform provides everything creators need from customer support to payment processing, so creators can focus on managing their content and marketing their site. The platform can also generate revenue from ads on free content, as well as subscriptions to premium content. The platform uses AWS Cloud technology to stream live and on-demand content around the world. The sale also includes a mainstream platform. The content is sold on a monthly subscription basis.

The code was developed in-house by their team of engineers. This is a great opportunity to enter the exciting world of live streaming video for a modest cost. Platforms like this cost a lot more to build from scratch, only $540,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Alison Bowden of Free Speech Coalition. Alison, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk. Thanks for having me.

It’s awesome. It took us a little while, but we finally got this scheduled and I’m stoked now. Allison is a veteran adult entertainment industry exec. That’s a mouthful, who served on the fscs board of directors for over three years, including as its president. Before taking on the role of executive director since starting her adult industry career in 2003, Allison has held a wide variety of marketing technology and leadership positions at companies like Adult Empire Game Link, video Box, and kink.com, where she was c e O.

She also serves Pineapple support as its board president. When do you sleep? Allison holds a bachelor’s degree in sociology with a concentration in women’s studies from the University of Pittsburgh. You can follow her on social media at at Allison Boden. That’s Allison with an L. She enjoys hiking, drinking, wine diving, and listening to podcasts. No doubt, a steady diet of adult site broker talk. The Free Speech Coalition’s mission is to protect the rights and freedoms of both the workers and businesses in the adult industry.

Their organization functions as a resource, a leader, and a tool for the communities that they serve. They take pride in fighting to alleviate the social stigma, misinformation, and discriminatory policies that affect those who work in the adult industry for more than 25 years. Wow. They’ve been fighting and winning impossible battles from the Supreme Court to the ballot box and back again. How’d you like your commercial?

Speaker 2 (4m 34s): I am impressed with us. Good job Free Speech Coalition.

Speaker 1 (4m 40s): Allison, how did you get your start in this crazy industry?

Speaker 2 (4m 46s): Always a funny

Speaker 1 (4m 48s): Question, so gimme a funny answer. So

Speaker 2 (4m 49s): I, I would say I started in college, as you mentioned. I went to the University of Pittsburgh and grew up in Pittsburgh. Ah, and that is a town that, you know, it, it didn’t have like a good vibrations the way you all did in the Bay Area or Toys Bayland. Yeah. Like they did in New York. And it was, it felt to me like Pittsburgh really needed that kind of of institution. Okay. So a really good friend of mine and I in college, we were like, let’s, let’s open a store.

How hard could it be? It was impossible, actually. And this is amazingly still an issue that small retailers face 20 years later. But you know, zoning laws in various cities, municipalities are basically like, well, you can be down by the river with the cockroaches and rats or out by the highway, but that’s it.

Speaker 1 (5m 46s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (5m 47s): So, you know, I did that for a little while and you know, graduated college needed a real job and just lucked out that adult DVD empire happened to be hiring someone to deal with their sex toys kinda dream job. Yeah, yeah. So that’s kinda, that’s kinda where I started.

Speaker 1 (6m 9s): Wow. So they were called adult DVD Empire then,

Speaker 2 (6m 13s): Back in those days. Yeah, 2000. Makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I’ve never seen so many DVDs and probably never will again.

Speaker 1 (6m 22s): You will never again. What were, Hey man, I, I remember Beta Max is, okay, so I’m a lot older than you. What were the big issues that the industry was facing at that time?

Speaker 2 (6m 34s): You know, I hate to say they were similar to now, but

Speaker 1 (6m 38s): I know, huh?

Speaker 2 (6m 39s): I do think, right. I do think that like there are some really common threads, right? Social acceptability of what we do, the way people think about us. While it definitely isn’t ideal now, I would argue it was much worse back then, of

Speaker 1 (6m 54s): Course. You know,

Speaker 2 (6m 55s): And, and you know, 20 years is an absurdly long amount of time and I kind of can’t even believe that I’ve been doing this this long. But, you know,

Speaker 1 (7m 4s): Tell me about it.

Speaker 2 (7m 6s): Right? Like thinking about, you know, even being able to tell people what you did for a living, you know, there was just so much judgment. It was so, it was really hard. And the way that sex workers were treated was, believe it or not, even worse, at that point when I was working at Empire, that was when the FBI was doing 2 25 7 inspections. Yeah. They came to us,

Speaker 1 (7m 33s): Oh geez.

Speaker 2 (7m 33s): Located in Pennsylvania. So, you know, that was really the big scary issue at the time. Kind of what do we do about the secondary producer requirement? I remember spending days, even though I was the sex toy person, I had to sit in front of a computer and like look through 2 57 documentation and match IDs to paperwork just because

Speaker 1 (7m 55s): Were you

Speaker 2 (7m 56s): Yeah. Like afraid of, you know, basically your business getting destroyed. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (8m 2s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (8m 4s): Thankfully FSC actually did solve that problem for the industry. Nice. So I guess it’s sort of full circle in a way.

Speaker 1 (8m 12s): Yeah. They they had an early impact on you.

Speaker 2 (8m 16s): Exactly. I didn’t even know it at the time.

Speaker 1 (8m 19s): Yeah. Crazy. So you’ve held a lot of positions in the industry since then. How did you get from selling sex toys to CEO of Kink?

Speaker 2 (8m 30s): It was Path, as you might expect, so sold Sex Toys that Empire got recruited to come out to San Francisco and work with Game Link, and they needed some help with sex toys, but mostly they were looking for someone to run their editorial department. So that was one of the fun jobs that I’ve had, which was interviewing porn stars. I actually was the first person to interview Sasha Gray.

Speaker 1 (8m 59s): Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 2 (9m 0s): Which was great fun. Yeah. So getting to know that part of the business, getting, you know, I had only really done toys before, so now I’m, I’m learning all about the stars and learning about video and doing a lot of marketing work while I was at it. And then when I left Game Link, I moved over to a video box where they needed a marketing person. Great. I can market. I guess that’s a skill, right? So it

Speaker 1 (9m 27s): Is,

Speaker 2 (9m 28s): I had no idea what I was doing at first, but I figured it out. I learned, I learned how to be a marketer, but in my spare time, I was still front since back in high school, I taught myself to code and I always kind of had a, I dunno, some, somewhere in the back of my mind I was like, oh, I, I wish I could just do this for a job. Like, marketing’s fun and making email newsletters is, well, it’s actually really a slog, but, you know, it’d be cool to actually be building the websites that, you know, I’m working for.

Sure. And eventually, you know, after I left Video Box, I started working for Kink because they were hiring an email marketing person. Interesting. And believe it or not, even to this day, email marketing often does require a fair bit of HTML coding.

Speaker 1 (10m 18s): Yeah. It, it certainly does. And I always need help with it, by the way.

Speaker 2 (10m 22s): You know, if you need somebody reach out, because it’s a lot of tables. It’s a lot of tables. So, you know, doing that coding for kink running, I eventually became kind of their calms person, but I was in the back of my mind was like, well, you know, some one day I’m gonna kinda gonna do this for a real job, I’m gonna write code. And I mentioned that to a boss there and they’re like, well, why not just do it here? And so the head of technology there pulled me over to that department. I worked as a coder there for years, and it was great.

It was some of the, the best, most satisfying work I’ve done. And then of

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): Course, you do not, you do not come across to me as a coder who can sit in a room for days on. And I, sorry, I, you, you don’t seem to be that type to me.

Speaker 2 (11m 19s): I guess I should take that as a compliment.

Speaker 1 (11m 21s): You should. You should.

Speaker 2 (11m 23s): Thank you. No, thank you. And you know, I think that’s part of the reason I ended up becoming management, because, you know, coding is fun, but you need somebody who can, who can manage a bunch of, of other coders, right? And so, got promoted, was running the tech team, became the VP of Tech, and when, you know, King’s founder, Peter decided that he was gonna take some time and, you know, enjoy the spoils of, of having sold the, the San Francisco Armory and needed somebody to step in and run the company.

He picked me. So that was really, you know, a lot of kind of like, sure I went to college, but really all the skills that I got were self-taught or kind of figured out on the job. And yeah, I like to say I went from the email room to the CEO’s office.

Speaker 1 (12m 16s): Yeah, that’s really cool. Yeah. And it really helps to be running something when, you know, everyone’s job. I unfortunately don’t have the knowledge of everyone’s job. I’ve been a little lazy that way. I actually have an HTML course that I one of these days, and I keep moving it back on my calendar that I’m gonna go through because I really should learn it. But, and I’m going to, but yeah, it’s really helpful to know what everyone does and how they do it.

Speaker 2 (12m 53s): Oh, for sure. I mean, I think the fact that I worked for the company for seven years in a bunch of different roles before taking over was, I mean, really impactful on the way I ran the company because knowing, you know, how hard everyone’s job is, you know? Yeah. From having done it or, or sat next to them or having talked to them about it. Right. It, it really does change your perspective.

Speaker 1 (13m 19s): Absolutely. So as c e o of Kink, you really sought to modernize what, at that point was a 20 year company. What was that like?

Speaker 2 (13m 29s): You know, it was a lot of fun, honestly. I think that it was a huge change moving out of the Armory. You know, we had been there, I had worked there in that building in that giant castle for years and years. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13m 43s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13m 44s): Seven and a half, eight years. And so

Speaker 1 (13m 46s): That was, that was a cool place.

Speaker 2 (13m 47s): It was really amazing. Although it also didn’t have heat or air conditioning, so oops. You know, pros and cons.

Speaker 1 (13m 55s): Well, San Francisco, you don’t need air conditioning in San Francisco. That’s for darn sure.

Speaker 2 (14m 0s): I don’t know, Bruce, climate change has made some pretty uncomfortable days even in the

Speaker 1 (14m 7s): Bay. Yeah. Maybe I’m thinking of the days I lived in the Bay Area, because what I remember is nobody had had air conditioning then.

Speaker 2 (14m 16s): You didn’t used to need it. Nowadays, there are a couple, even in the, the city itself over a hundred degrees and that, that giant

Speaker 1 (14m 25s): Every once in

Speaker 2 (14m 26s): A while still building. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (14m 28s): Oh yeah. Boy, I bet it can retain heat.

Speaker 2 (14m 31s): Yeah. Oh yeah,

Speaker 1 (14m 32s): Sure. So you remember one time being at being at a jazz show in San Francisco and it was just like really hot and there was no air conditioning and everyone was just dying.

Speaker 2 (14m 44s): Oh, yeah. Because you don’t expect it in San Francisco

Speaker 1 (14m 46s): At all. Of course, of course.

Speaker 2 (14m 47s): What’s what’s going on here? But, you know, kind of trying to move into a different building and one of like those, those sort of cool, you know, startupy, brick exposed buildings in, in San Francisco, in Selma, kind of changing our focus technologically, you know? Right. I really benefited from having the support of the founder. I don’t think I could’ve made the changes I did or, or moved the company forward in the ways that I was able to without his trust.

So on the one hand it was crazy and, you know, really difficult to, to kind of turn a, a giant cruise ship. You don’t turn ’em on a dime. But, you know, it was also just a real joy because I was surrounded by the absolute best human beings, like my colleagues at Kink Yeah. Are still, you know, a close family.

Speaker 1 (15m 46s): Yeah, absolutely. Was j was, was Jesse Garza working there when you were there?

Speaker 2 (15m 52s): He sure was. Yeah. Wow. We worked together for a couple years.

Speaker 1 (15m 56s): So tragic. So tragic. Yeah. We just got the news a few days ago as we record this, that Jesse sadly passed at a very young age, 39 years old.

Speaker 2 (16m 7s): Incredibly shocking. And, and yeah, really so sad.

Speaker 1 (16m 11s): So we saw him a couple weeks ago and just like, just like life. It’s, you know, someone’s gone before you even know it, and it, you don’t even get a chance to say goodbye. It’s really sad.

Speaker 2 (16m 24s): Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16m 26s): So what were some of the changes that you were most proud of at Kink?

Speaker 2 (16m 31s): You know, I felt like when I was in the tech role, I was really excited because we were, you know, I was part of the team that rewrote the entire technology stack. So just built a new website completely from scratch. Then when I, you know, was running the company, now you’re thinking about production and marketing and, you know, the accounting group. And I feel like, you know, it was a, it was a really interesting change at the company at that moment because not only did we move out of the Armory, but all of the producers prior to that, I think Kink may have been the one of the last companies that actually had everybody on payroll.

Yeah. So all the directors, all the PAs, every, everyone was actually an employee of kink.com. And when Peter handed over the Keys, he had also kind of moved everybody out. And so they’re all kind of in their own new studios in three different cities and two different, three different states.

Speaker 1 (17m 34s): Geez.

Speaker 2 (17m 35s): So, yeah. So kind

Speaker 1 (17m 37s): Of, that had to be, that had to be a bit of a challenge.

Speaker 2 (17m 40s): It was, and, and, you know, I mean, kinks known for its, you know, really high standards in terms of consent and, you know, performer rights. And so kind of coming up with a new way to approach that, where we turned what used to be our talent department, right. So we would have people who would do intake and, and handle, you know, models, bookings and things like that. But that’s no longer what the company does. But I took one of those people and turned him into our talent advocate.

And so this is someone whose entire job is to make sure that all of the producers, no matter where they are, are doing right. By the performers and independent, you know, check on. That’s

Speaker 1 (18m 24s): Very cool. That’s very cool.

Speaker 2 (18m 26s): It really, it, it felt great because I felt a little bit better about, oh, I can’t like be there every, you know, I can’t just walk upstairs and check out a set the way I used to. But a, we were working with people who I trusted deeply, and b, like having someone whose entire role is just to make sure performers are happy. I felt like, you know, I was pretty proud of that. I felt good about that.

Speaker 1 (18m 51s): Hey, it doesn’t get better than that. Right?

Speaker 2 (18m 54s): I mean, if it does, I would love to hear about it because I think everybody should definitely be doing as much as they can for the folks who, let’s be honest, make all of the rest of us money.

Speaker 1 (19m 6s): Yeah. It seems like, obviously in like in all businesses, the goal is to make money and it seems to be that everything else kind of goes by the wayside. And to see that kind of emphasis being put on what’s important to the performers, what’s important to the employees, it’s very rare, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (19m 31s): It used to be extremely rare. I’ve actually been really excited over the last couple of years in that role. I got to talk to a lot of other, you know, folks in leadership at other companies and in this role certainly even more. And yeah, I really think that there’s been, in certain circumstances, a real fundamental shift toward understanding that like, we really need to be careful and do a great job protecting the folks who are honestly the most vulnerable in our industry.

Speaker 1 (20m 7s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20m 7s): Because of the way that it works, right? Like, you know, you, you’re just one performer and these are really big companies. You don’t wanna lose work. And I think an understanding of of that and sort of the power dynamics and the way that, you know, these sorts of things are actually a good business decision has, has really, I’ve, I’ve seen some change and it’s, it’s been positive.

Speaker 1 (20m 30s): How much do you think two factors have had to do with that one being Me too. Okay. And, you know, then the other thing being the advent of the fan sites,

Speaker 2 (20m 46s): I think they, they were both both really significant in their own ways, right? So I think Me Too was huge. Yeah. And it’s really, I think, shocking the first time a company realizes that it did something wrong or there’s an allegation that they can’t ignore.

Speaker 1 (21m 3s): Right.

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): And that’s, you know, that’s a really critical moment because they can either choose to like, handle it head on and admit that, you know, they should have done better and that they will do better and fix it, or they can put on the blinders and that’s, it forces them to make a, make a choice. Yeah. And I’m pleased by how many made the right choice. And I think that had had me two not happened. So many of these problems still would’ve been pushed under the rug. Right. And performers wouldn’t have felt as empowered to say, Hey, actually this wasn’t okay.

What happened to me? Yeah. So enormous.

Speaker 1 (21m 40s): Absolutely. Right.

Speaker 2 (21m 41s): Not only that, you’re right. Only fans change the game. Now they don’t, you know, they’re not like, oh, well I’m gonna get blacklisted by this company now my career’s over. They’re making more in an afternoon on only fans Yeah. Than they would on a, you know, a two day shoot. So they’re, they have no reason to work with companies that don’t treat them extremely well.

Speaker 1 (22m 5s): Exactly. Well, the key is to get rid of the Ron Jeremy’s of the world. Boy has that been a fiasco, and I’m sure we haven’t heard the last of it, unfortunately. It’s a, it’s a black eye on our industry, which is the worst part of it, because it all ends up in, in mainstream news. It’s

Speaker 2 (22m 27s): Incredible how one bad Apple, and I hate using that phrase, but No,

Speaker 1 (22m 32s): It’s okay.

Speaker 2 (22m 33s): Those individual examples of bad actors are, are where the media decides to look when they wanna talk about the industry as a whole. So we all get

Speaker 1 (22m 45s): Of course, of course. It’s where they wanna look.

Speaker 2 (22m 48s): Of course.

Speaker 1 (22m 48s): Yeah, no doubt about it. So when you left Kink in 21, you could have stayed in the for-profit sector and obviously done well considering your track record. How did you come to end up taking over at Free Speech Coalition?

Speaker 2 (23m 4s): Well, thank you for, for saying that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23m 7s): Well look, I mean, Alison, your reputation in this industry is phenomenal. And I’m gonna say it if nobody else does.

Speaker 2 (23m 18s): I appreciate it, Bruce. I did have some offers and they Sure they were tempting, right. But in a way, you know, having served on the board for a few years and knowing what it is free speech has been trying to do and having some thoughts that like, you know, I might be able to bring something new and maybe, you know, push things forward in a, a way that somebody who, you know, a lot of the, the history of this organization has been that it’s been run by executive directors who aren’t from our industry for better or worse.

Right. And so I just thought, you know, after 20 years in this industry, maybe I can bring a, a new energy, do it my own way and, and, and really accomplish some stuff. So, you know, I can always go back to the private sector, but the opportunity kind of arose when I was, because, you know, being ceo, it’s, it’s pretty exhausting. I was like, oh, lemme take a couple months, take a nap.

But you know, when when the board approached me when there was a, you know, the former executive director left, we needed someone. I said, yeah, of course. I mean, Hm. There’s really no other, there’s nothing else. I could have done

Speaker 1 (24m 40s): It.

Speaker 2 (24m 40s): Interesting. Really, I love fsc. I love what, what we stand for. I, it’s honestly a really big, it’s an honor to, to be the one defending this industry that I Yes. Spent my entire life in.

Speaker 1 (24m 57s): I’ll be honest, when I heard you had taken over first I was very happy. Okay. And second, I was kind of surprised cuz I’m like, I mean, Allison can do anything she wants in this industry, why take over a nonprofit? But I’m sure your experience throughout your career, including what we talked about early in your career, where you realized what FSC was and what they did and how important they were, I’m sure that played into it

Speaker 2 (25m 28s): A hundred percent. I mean, you know, I came from a, when I was in college, of course, you know, I was pretty politically active. I had been arrested. Surprised.

Speaker 3 (25m 38s): I’m really surprised. I’m really surprised by that.

Speaker 1 (25m 41s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 41s): Yeah. Crazy. You know, and, and it kind of, you know, I never thought, like, Alison, you sold out by just working in porn. But there was also a part of me that was like, yeah, you know, it’d be really cool if someday, like you can make a difference for the industry.

Speaker 1 (25m 60s): Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (26m 1s): There was a no brainer.

Speaker 1 (26m 2s): More power to you. More power to you. So nonprofits are a much different animal than for-profit companies. What were the biggest challenges you faced with the transition?

Speaker 2 (26m 16s): As it turns out, yeah. They’re a real, it’s a really different animal.

Speaker 1 (26m 20s): Big time. Like,

Speaker 2 (26m 21s): Oh yeah, I ran, I ran kink.com, I can run ffc and gosh, what isn’t different? So, you know, 50 employees or five. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 35s): Well there’s some simplicity to that too. Of course.

Speaker 2 (26m 38s): A hundred percent. Yeah. No, and, and, and I think that, you know, understanding the whole, the, the impact of, of being a nonprofit, the, the different ways that, you know, you have to run an organization than you, you did have to run a company just from taxes. And I mean, it’s not that hard to sell porn or sex toys if we’re being honest. People want those things. Oh yeah, you have to do a good job. Yes, you have good product, but frankly, you know, it’s a little harder to sell the idea of supporting the industry, protecting our rights, you know, so that I think was the biggest change.

Like, okay, I’m not selling skin and, and pleasure. I’m selling your right to sell it.

Speaker 1 (27m 29s): Yes, absolutely. But

Speaker 2 (27m 31s): I, but I think being able to, having come from the perspective of being an FSC member and having donated and understanding, you know, what it meant to go from early in my career being raided by the FBI to what FSC did to where we all are now. Yeah. You know, I have a personal story, I could sell it. Sure. And we’re doing a lot.

Speaker 1 (27m 54s): I’m sure being on the board als, I I’m sure being on the board also played into it.

Speaker 2 (27m 59s): Yeah, for sure. I mean, had I, had I been totally new to it, gosh, I’m not even, it’d be crazy to take this job. But, you know, after a few years of kind of watching it, getting close to my fellow board members, having been the treasurer of the organization, so super familiar with, you know, what the, the books look like. Always a, an important consideration. Oh yeah. I felt like, yeah. Okay. We can make this work.

Speaker 1 (28m 27s): Absolutely. So beyond what you do at F S C, you’re also president of Pineapple Supports Born, which by the way, we are a proud sponsor of Pineapple Support. I, as I’ve said many, many times, I’m a huge advocate for anything that helps mental health and that also plays into my life that I’ve thought and used therapists and think the world of them. How did you get involved with them?

Speaker 2 (28m 56s): Well, big same. You know, I, I am so happy or I was so happy back when, gosh, whatever year that was when Leia decided she was gonna try to start an organization it

Speaker 1 (29m 11s): Like three years now.

Speaker 2 (29m 12s): Oh my gosh. It’s crazy. Time flies. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (29m 14s): I know, right? I know.

Speaker 2 (29m 16s): And and I, we happened to be in the same city cuz you know, she lives in Spain and I, I happen to be in LA and she was there at the same time and we grabbed lunch and she was like, look, I think I’m gonna, I’m gonna start this nonprofit. And I was like, that is the most amazing thing I’ve ever heard. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (29m 32s): She’s amazing.

Speaker 2 (29m 33s): Can can I help? Do you need anything? Like, I dunno, I dunno how I can help. And Yeah, no, she is just extremely, extremely, I only really came to appreciate her. I definitely appreciate her before I had this job, but now yeah. Doing a similar thing. I’m like, holy crap, are you good at this? Like, she has allowed that organization to serve thousands of performers who need the help.

Speaker 1 (30m 2s): Think about how many lives that’s saved.

Speaker 2 (30m 5s): Lives saved. It’s just incredible. And she deserves all the credit in the world. I

Speaker 1 (30m 10s): Agree. I agree.

Speaker 2 (30m 12s): I can’t believe how far it’s come. Even just in three years. Yes. From nothing to, you know, coming up on 10,000 people,

Speaker 1 (30m 22s): Jews

Speaker 2 (30m 22s): Who’ve gotten help through pineapple support.

Speaker 1 (30m 25s): We promote it every chance we get on this podcast. I’ve had her on a couple times, I’ve had one of her therapists on. To me, it’s just a phenomenon that is just so important to this industry.

Speaker 2 (30m 42s): Oh, incredibly. It’s so important everywhere. And, and it’s very sad to me that this isn’t, you know, the way every industry treats its workers, giving them access to help or the US government even.

Speaker 1 (30m 57s): Yeah. Well there’s such a stigma though. There’s such a stigma about mental health and if you think there’s a stigma in the US try being in Thailand, try being in another country that do that isn’t as progressive. Well I don’t like to say the US is progressive anymore, but that can be as progressive as the US that is progressive in some ways and another ways going backward. But that’s another story.

Speaker 2 (31m 22s): Yeah. And I mean, even, you know, being a sex worker in the United States makes it incredibly difficult to find a provider who isn’t judging you and Right. You know, if you have access it, it can be dicey. I’ve even had therapists who’ve been really weird to me because I was on the business side. So Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31m 42s): Yeah. Tell me about

Speaker 2 (31m 43s): It. Credible screening, all these therapists, making sure that they like, understand the issues and treat all of our, you know, clients with respect. It’s just, I can’t a, I can’t thank you enough for the support because the organization really needs it and it’s just, it’s wonderful. It’s really great.

Speaker 1 (32m 5s): Well, our industry, as you know, and this is one of the goals of FSC, is to try to turn this around, but we get prejudice from every turn. But it’s amazing we would get prejudice from therapists,

Speaker 2 (32m 21s): Right. It seems almost at odds with what therapists are supposed to do.

Speaker 1 (32m 27s): Yeah. I’m sure they’ve got a, an oath and they’re breaking it by that. So, oh, well, thank God for laying pineapple support. That’s all I can say. I saw you at AVN and you were, were having meetings with various platforms. You were moving so fast. It wasn’t funny. I didn’t even hardly get a chance to say hi. What do you see as the biggest issues facing the industry?

Speaker 2 (32m 50s): You know, I think that one of the issues that really came to the fore in the fall when Wells Fargo decided to completely ban essentially adult businesses and, and workers from, from their, you know, from their bank. It, it just made an issue that has always been simmering. Like, oh, so and so lost the bank account. Let’s see if we can find them a new one. But it just really brought to the, for how much discrimination right.

Our industry faces. Yes. From what is essentially a basic human right. Like you have to have access to the financial services world in order to exist as a human. Yes. Yep. And that really galvanized me and, and made it really clear that that’s a, an issue we need to tackle.

Speaker 1 (33m 45s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (33m 46s): I think in addition, you know, Louisiana passing its age verification law was just the most recent in a whole string of a really bad age verification mandates Yeah. That we are, we’re gonna have to deal with. Sure. It’s happening. And so getting our strategy proactively, I’ve been talking to a lot of the platforms about look, what, what could work? Obviously these, these suggestions that like websites need to use an official, I mean, LA Wallet is what the Louisiana legislature wants you to use.

It’s absurd. It’s expensive. It’s using someone’s actual id. Yeah. I mean, we just, if you care about privacy, if you care about like actually having customers tomorrow, yeah. We can’t.

Speaker 1 (34m 40s): Well, and they, they know people will, they know the vast majority of people won’t do that because it’s porn.

Speaker 2 (34m 46s): Exactly. The whole point is to deprive adults of access to material that they have the constitutional right to view.

Speaker 1 (34m 55s): Yeah. It’s just the first amendment. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34m 58s): Just that, just number

Speaker 1 (34m 60s): One, no big deal.

Speaker 2 (35m 2s): So tackling that really big issue, you know, I, I think that we’re already, you know, making some strides there.

Speaker 1 (35m 9s): My broker tip today is part one on how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a cam site, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site, or something else? If you wanna buy a membership site, what type of membership site do you want? And in what niche? There are literally hundreds of niches in many sub niches. For instance, let’s say you wanna buy a gay site under gay, there’s Bears or mature bareback, Asian, Latino amateur, bi black Euro and Fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification.

Plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms. Straight has even more sub niches. I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I wanna buy a site, or I wanna buy a pay site. I obviously need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. Let’s say you like men and wanna make money on a straight site, that’s probably a really bad idea.

Say a thing if you’re straight and wanna buy a gay site. So what you like plays a part. What’s your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning. Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a Cam site with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re gonna need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established and successful site is gonna be really expensive. If you buy a site that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re gonna need a huge investment to build it up.

In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week will be part two of our interview with Alison Bowden. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Alison Bowden. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Tristan and Rutger of We Cam Girls. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. Actually, our property of the week this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available in addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters. Right now, we have a CAM site dating sites and pay sites available. We often have other types of sites as well.

In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons. These are generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyer’s NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify. Now time for this week’s interview. My guests today on Adult Side Broker talk are Tristan and Rutger of We Cam Girls.

Hey guys, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk. Thank you for having us, Bruce.

Speaker 2 (2m 25s): Yes, thank you Bruce. Hi,

Speaker 1 (2m 26s): It’s a pleasure. Now Tristan is married and has two young children. He’s a lawyer by trade. He’s been in the adult industry for over 10 years. He tried practicing law and didn’t enjoy it, so he started a business with his friend Rutgers. His hobbies are football, as he says, the real football as in the one you play with your feet. Hey, they kicked the ball in the nfl. Come on. Not the egg ball stuff from the us. He watches golf, he likes good food and he likes Legos.

I had it written. He watches golf. Good food. You watch good food? No, you like good food. Okay, and you eat Legos. Okay, there we go. Now Rutgers nice. Rutgers is also married with two kids. He graduated with a master’s in Echo Metrics.

Speaker 3 (3m 16s): Eco Econometrics

Speaker 1 (3m 17s): Says here, Econo Metrics. Okay, we’ll have to talk about that. He started building his first websites in the late nineties. I didn’t know you were that old. His hobbies are basketball, sneakers, golf, good food and Legos. Imagine that you guys both like eating Legos, okay? They both live in the same part of the Netherlands, not far from the beautiful city of Amsterdam. Damn, you guys have so much in common. You should be married for Christ’s sake. All right? They build a community for cam models in 2012, even though it’s called the We Cam girls.

They also have male models in the community. One day, a friend of theirs who was a former webcam model talked about her online experiences. When they asked her what she thought were the hardest parts of being a performer, she said two things. The first was she didn’t like the fact that she couldn’t talk to a lot of people about what she does for a living. Second thing was that not being able to do this cost her boredom. In March of 2012, we Cam Girls was born as a chat system in forum where performers can discuss the different sites in the latest tech.

Since then, it’s grown into a real community. They’ve added some additional features, like a commercial profile page, cam girl collective.com, and a review section. So how did you guys like your commercial there?

Speaker 3 (4m 32s): Wow, this is us. Sounds so professional.

Speaker 1 (4m 35s): Unbelievable, isn’t it? Yes, this is. Okay, well good. I do my best. So before we talk about, we Cam girls, I’d like to know more about you guys. Can you tell us a little bit about yourselves and how you met?

Speaker 3 (4m 49s): Yeah, how did we meet? Theres, it was how long ago? Like 18 or 19 years ago? Yeah, I think so. Oh, I was dating one of your friends. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (4m 59s): Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (5m 0s): That’s how it goes. And she said, I have a friend who’s also a computer nerd, so maybe you can talk to each other and see if you can do some business. And back in the day, there was not really room for that. But we found out we both liked poker, so we started having, doing poker together and became buddies and there we are.

Speaker 1 (5m 26s): Tristan, you got anything to add to that?

Speaker 4 (5m 29s): Yeah, no, we actually met on her birthday. Yeah, we were, she was dating him and we were having a chat and turned out that we had some things in common and some common interests. And then we started to play poker. And then yeah, years later Rutgers asked me, yeah, do you wanna start something together? And that’s how we started. Started out.

Speaker 1 (5m 52s): Very good. So what experience did you have or did you have any experience in our business before you created Weekend Girls?

Speaker 3 (6m 2s): I had, I started building websites in 97. Okay. And I found out that there was money to be made in adult. So I started creating some web kind white labels before there were white labels. So that’s how I got into the, the whole industry. Okay. So yeah, that was like in 2001, I think. And I’ve been building websites ever since.

Speaker 1 (6m 31s): And, and Tristan basically Rutgers corrupted you?

Speaker 4 (6m 34s): Absolutely. It’s, I didn’t have any experience with this industry before. So the first year was actually learning a lot and getting to know the whole gem world. It was, I didn’t know what to expect because when I first hear, when you first hear of models and webcams and stuff like that, and studios in Romania always imagined these dark dungeons where these girls were locked up on Jane’s forced to be on webcam.

Well, that turned out to be different. Yeah. And yeah, so I learned a lot, especially the first year and after they go into the first shows and a whole new world opened up. My friend of course who, who gave me the initial idea and I talked to her about it, but she was doing it from home. And there was always this world of webcam that I didn’t know anything about. So especially in, in Romania. And so when we went to the first shows and got to know actually actual studios and stuff like that, it was totally different than from what I’ve imagined.

Speaker 1 (7m 41s): Sure. It was a real business.

Speaker 4 (7m 44s): Oh yeah. Absolutely. So professional.

Speaker 1 (7m 47s): Oh yes. Absolutely. So how would you explain your site if you were telling someone about it who had no idea what we Cam Girls is?

Speaker 4 (7m 58s): Well, so we Cam Girls is a social media network. It’s a business to business community in a sense, right. For webcam models. So there are no customers, there are no fans, they’re not there to make money. They’re there to exchange information, exchange tips, enjoy each other’s company and talk business. But also, you can talk about everything on the form, you know, from shoe shopping to philosophy, but there’s also a lot of business talk of course.

From what? So what can I do to up my game? Do you have any suggestions for new sites or, and new ideas? How to do my shows? It’s a place where cam models hang out, where there are no customers, but just the models having interactive conversations with each other.

Speaker 1 (8m 49s): Okay. Anything It’s like

Speaker 4 (8m 50s): A, it’s like a Facebook slash LinkedIn forum. Yeah. That’s

Speaker 3 (8m 55s): Basically what it’s

Speaker 1 (8m 56s): Okay. Rector got anything to add?

Speaker 3 (8m 59s): No, I think that sums it up pretty well.

Speaker 1 (9m 2s): He articulated it wonderfully, didn’t he?

Speaker 3 (9m 4s): Yes. Well, we’ve explained it before. Of course.

Speaker 1 (9m 7s): Of course. So what was the main reason you decided to start the site 10 years ago besides trying to get Rich?

Speaker 3 (9m 15s): Oh, that, oh, besides getting Rich. Exactly. When I started with, with Webcam white labels, I always found it fascinating to see that there’s like a whole business behind that, the webcams. And then when a friend told us that he was in need of more help or more information about what she was doing, and we thought, that’s great to make. I’ve been creating communities before. So I, I started one with in 2001, so it was already something I had something experience in.

Right. And I thought, oh, why not do something for the webcam models and make it more business to business instead of just a place to have fun, but also more like information. And that turned out very well.

Speaker 1 (10m 4s): Yeah. There’s really nothing like what you guys have is there, I mean, there, there are model forums, but with everything that’s on we Cam Girls. I don’t think there’s anything else like it is there.

Speaker 3 (10m 15s): I don’t think there is. We have some competition or other communities, but like you said, it’s mostly only forums. And I think one of our unique selling points is that we’re she out for customers? So it’s really only for models and not for customers. And so we try to create a safe haven for them where they can discuss everything they want. We have a verification system to make sure that everybody on our platform is really in the adult in industry and not a fan or customer say, just trying to sign up.

Right. So we have different levels of security within our system to make sure that if you’re talking to other models, you can be sure that only models can read it. Not even the, the website’s owners.

Speaker 1 (11m 7s): And how do you make sure,

Speaker 3 (11m 10s): Like I said, we have a verification system. Okay. So we have several ways a model can verify their account. Right. And normally they send something on their Twitter account, right. And we will make sure that’s a Twitter account of someone that’s been around in the webcam industry for, for a while. Or they can send a link to their webcam profile and if they say something about Wes on their profile, we know it’s them. And then that makes it Sure. That’s a real model.

Speaker 1 (11m 40s): Do a lot of fans try to sign up?

Speaker 3 (11m 42s): Yeah. But most are doing that by accident, I think. Oh, and when you sign up, we have a couple of questions. And the first question is, are you a model or are you a customer or a fan? And as soon as you say I’m a customer, then you get an automatic IP van. So you won’t be able to, and we sent you to Asite to make some money of you.

Speaker 1 (12m 8s): So do you have like an exploding sound or something like that, or a flushing sound?

Speaker 3 (12m 13s): Oh, but, but that sounds cool. We should, we should do that.

Speaker 1 (12m 17s): I’ve heard that on radio shows before when there’s a caller, especially like sports talk shows where there’s a caller who’s just a real jerk off, you know, different hosts do different things, different sound effects. Sometimes it’s a flush of a toilet. Sometimes it’s, it’s a big explosion Yeah. Times

Speaker 3 (12m 34s): Because the, the customer is not a jerk. He’s, he’s in the end, he’s the one paying for everybody. Of course, of course. We try to treat everybody fair. Sure. But we don’t, just don’t allow him on a weekend, girls.

Speaker 1 (12m 49s): Very good. Well, maybe, maybe you need to, to set up an adjoining forum for fans.

Speaker 4 (12m 55s): Yeah. We talked about it and we discussed it. There are lots more sites out there that do already that kind of stuff. Sure. So we just try to expand in different ways.

Speaker 1 (13m 7s): Sure, sure. Stay with what works, right?

Speaker 4 (13m 11s): Yeah. But also, we’ve been working on some new projects and so we’re trying to, to cover more parts of the adult industry besides Cammy.

Speaker 1 (13m 20s): Tell me about it.

Speaker 4 (13m 21s): One of our latest projects is we porn stars. It’s a similar community, like we Chem girls, but the, the target group in this case is talent born talent. So we thought might be interesting to set up site for adults, creators for, for talent porn. Sure. And of course it, the market is a little bit smaller. I mean there, I think they’re way more webcam models than there are porn stars of porn

Speaker 1 (13m 53s): Talent porn stars, yes. Creators. No,

Speaker 4 (13m 55s): There is overlap of course, because Yeah. Scam girls are creators.

Speaker 1 (14m 0s): Most are porn are porn stars too.

Speaker 4 (14m 2s): Yeah. And porn stars too. Right. But I think there’s a difference between getting, going to create content yourself, doing that on your phone or at home. And when you go to an actual studio where you have a camera crew and director. And so I think there’s a, that part of the industry is different. There are not many cam girls who will go into porn as in go make a movie on a set.

Sure. But the other way around, there’s more because porn stars, especially if they already built their fan base, and Webcaming is a good way to be in contact with your fans. Yes. And I think as a porn star, especially if you’re a bit famous, there are a lot of people who actually want to interact with you.

Speaker 1 (14m 57s): Sure. Absolutely. So how’s that pro? How’s that project going?

Speaker 4 (15m 2s): It’s going. We are also working on a, a new one and that one is called Ween Girls.

Speaker 1 (15m 8s): There you go.

Speaker 4 (15m 9s): And Find Girls is basically a site for content creators, for adult content creators because content creation is booming at the, at the moment. Of course everybody knows that. And there are a lot of content creators, but not all of them are, are Webcaming True and or flow pornstar. So of course there’s an overlap between it, between these, the three sites. But I think doing this new site with girls, it will be, there is a really big group that can really benefit from it.

Speaker 1 (15m 43s): Sure. And I would think the crossover between the three areas will help you promote all three sites.

Speaker 4 (15m 49s): Absolutely. Yeah. That’s great. And that makes it easier to start for us, because when we started with Weekend Girls, I mean, that was tough.

Speaker 1 (16m 1s): Sure, sure.

Speaker 3 (16m 2s): We were just two rear Dutch guys that were trying to get girls to their website, so

Speaker 4 (16m 8s): Everybody was hesitant to sign up, you know? Sure. I mean, everybody was afraid that we wanted something from their income or from their pie or from, how do you wanna say it? So, and before you get your site rolling, I mean, building a community is pretty hard. You need content to get new visitors, but to get new content, you need new visitors. So it’s a paradox, but it’s also a snowball, you know, when it starts rolling,

Speaker 3 (16m 36s): I love snowball.

Speaker 4 (16m 38s): It’s, when it starts rolling, it, it, it just grows better faster. Sure. And bigger, faster. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16m 46s): Over the last 10 years, or been many things that have heavily influenced the CAM industry, what do you think has changed the industry most in that time,

Speaker 4 (16m 55s): In the last 10 years? Yeah. I think that’s the interactive toys.

Speaker 3 (17m 1s): Hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17m 2s): I, I, I’m pretty sure of it. I think that’s the biggest change that has happened in the last 10 years. Yeah. Because everybody uses these toys now. And if you, if you’re wondering or not, you will have to use it because everybody else is using it too. Yeah. And I don’t know if it’s good or a bad thing, but I think it, it is one of the things that has changed the industry a lot. Sure. And there of course, there, there have been other changes that are quality cameras better sound, better picture faster, internet connections,

Speaker 1 (17m 37s): Big time.

Speaker 4 (17m 39s): But other big changes that I’d expected, like the VR is not really happening yet. They’re, they’ve been talking about it for the last 8, 7, 8 years. Yes. And some sites experiment with it, but it’s not a thing yet. Right. So I think this is the, the, the biggest change in the last 10 years is the are impact of sex choice. Sure. Because the, it wasn’t there before. Right.

And there are not many changes. I mean, some of these sites look the same as a 10 years as they looked 10 years ago.

Speaker 1 (18m 18s): Yes. We know who you’re talking about.

Speaker 4 (18m 21s): So of course the,

Speaker 1 (18m 23s): The, the richest, the richest guy, Leo, Leo, we love you.

Speaker 4 (18m 29s): So, yeah. But I think there will be some interesting new changes in the future.

Speaker 1 (18m 35s): Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (18m 37s): But at the moment, I think the chem industry is in a way, is pretty conservative for a tech industry because basically the, the chem industry is also a tech industry. But of course I think it’s really conservative.

Speaker 1 (18m 51s): Yeah, I would agree. So over the years the community you’ve built has been honored with numerous awards. What do you think makes we cam girls such a strong and engaged community?

Speaker 3 (19m 3s): Well, mostly because we don’t have lots of competition, so that makes for us,

Speaker 1 (19m 9s): Yes.

Speaker 3 (19m 10s): But besides that, I think one of our strong points is that we always try to keep the models in the first place. So for example, of course we have a lot of requests from, from campsites that wanna advertise with us. Yeah. But we always stick to the role, no more than six at the same time, just to make sure that it’s not bombarded with banners and we, that we, or that we send out meal plus every day we try to find a balance between making money and the models at their platform.

They’re also on s just to hang out with others and they don’t want to be bombarded with advertisements or Sure. Every new camp platform there is. So yeah, I think that’s one of our disadvantages.

Speaker 1 (20m 3s): Have you guys thought about a membership model that’s ad free?

Speaker 3 (20m 8s): Oh yeah. Well, ad free, I don’t think anybody will pay for that. But we thought about having like a free model where you can buy like a golden membership. Yeah. It’s been on our to-do list for like, almost also 10 years. The problem is we find it difficult to find stuff that’s really making a difference between a free membership and a paid membership. And as soon as, as we think of something that’s really interesting and we think, oh, models will, maybe will pay for that, then we think, oh, that will be great if you can provide it to everybody.

At the moment, we we’re just saying we keep it free for everybody and then we only have the advertisers that, that pay us money. Sure. And it really sounds very, very well.

Speaker 1 (20m 59s): So Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (20m 60s): But maybe sometime you, you never know.

Speaker 1 (21m 3s): Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (21m 4s): Yeah. But yeah, we, we thought about it and discussed it like every year, I think for that month

Speaker 1 (21m 12s): And then went nah.

Speaker 3 (21m 14s): Yeah. But then, then you do it like the, the mathematics and then you find out, okay, we can do it and it will make you, I don’t know, a thousand dollars a month and then we think, is that worth it? No, not only for us Yeah. To build it, but also to say to some others, oh, you haven’t paid, so you won’t be able to have this and this feature. I dunno.

Speaker 1 (21m 39s): Sure. Nah, it’s a thousand dollars a month then I would think that Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21m 43s): Because you, you can’t charge them like a hundred dollars a month. No. So if, if you charge,

Speaker 1 (21m 49s): Well, how many, well, how many models in your database now?

Speaker 3 (21m 51s): Yeah. We have 30,000. But if you, or maybe even 35, I don’t know. But if you charge them, I don’t know, like four or $5 and two, 200 of them join, or maybe 400, you, you know, you’re, you’re talking about one $2,000.

Speaker 1 (22m 8s): Right.

Speaker 3 (22m 9s): I, I don’t know if that’s enough to build it and to, but, because the difference then is you have paying customers and paying customers, they can say, oh, this is not working, or that’s not working. And Sure. It you get hassle and we don’t like

Speaker 1 (22m 28s): Soul. Well, I can just tell you from my knowledge of what creators pay for their advertising and what creators make, I don’t think you’re gonna have a problem with small amounts of money, even if you’re talking 10 or $20 a month. That’s just my take. If you guys want to talk offline about it, we can certainly do it. But I, I gotta tell you, there’s some massive amounts of money being spent on creator advertising on some platforms.

Speaker 3 (22m 56s): Yeah. But, but then the problem is you need something to offer them. And we try to offer it to everybody to have like community. Right, right. And then you have to build a complete set of new tools for them. It’s almost like you’re building a new company, which you could do, but we haven’t found the right software yet that’s missing in the industry.

Speaker 1 (23m 20s): Interesting. Okay. You guys will continue to, I’m sure, strategize.

Speaker 4 (23m 25s): Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (23m 27s): How has Covid impacted it’s gotta have a covid question, right? It’s, it’s kind of mandatory. How has Covid impacted your community and the chem industry as a whole?

Speaker 4 (23m 38s): I think when the first, when we are talking at the beginning of Covid, we saw pretty big impact actually, actually on our site is a lot of new members signing up Sure. People that were losing their jobs and that were looking for alternatives to, to make some money and to get information. So yeah, we saw a spike at the beginning of Covid, a lot of new members, people that were interested in in, in maybe doing webc information, asking questions.

There was a lot, a lot of uncertainty, especially in cert in specific parts in the world. And a lot of new US members. Most, most of the members on weekend girls are US members.

Speaker 1 (24m 23s): Makes sense.

Speaker 4 (24m 25s): About 30, 40% is Western Europe and a little bit of Eastern Europe. But the, the main go of the members of Weekend Girls is so Western orientated.

Speaker 1 (24m 37s): Right.

Speaker 4 (24m 38s): And of course there was a bit more uncertainty for people in the US I guess when it, they were talking about their jobs. So you saw quite a spike of new members from the US joining weekend, girls getting information, looking up how to start and maybe to find a way to earn some extra income. But it was temporarily, but also there were people Yeah. Looking for a job. But there were also more visitors going to Chemside because everybody was at home.

I guess.

Speaker 1 (25m 9s): Of course

Speaker 4 (25m 10s): When I talked to chem sites about Covid, they talk about how they have more customers and more shows and people visiting them more.

Speaker 1 (25m 21s): Yeah. Well that makes good sense.

Speaker 4 (25m 23s): Yeah. It, it covid had an impact, but it was temporarily then I think. And then it’s getting back to normal. It it’s already back to normal I think. So

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): I see you guys often at the trade shows. What do you think about these shows and which ones are your favorites?

Speaker 3 (25m 38s): We love the trade shows. It’s so great to talk to like-minded people. It’s almost like you are hanging out with your family. Which shows do we like best? The shows in Romania and the European Summits. Those are the

Speaker 1 (25m 51s): Yeah, ts. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25m 53s): Yeah. It’s not that it’s the business wise, the best shows they are, but it’s more like the people that are going to those shows. Those are the best people that are so

Speaker 1 (26m 4s): Yeah. The cool kids.

Speaker 4 (26m 5s): Yeah. We, we’ve been going to these shows now for almost 10 years. So you’ve built friendships with people and Absolutely. And it’s, yeah, it always feels like coming home in a sense. When I go to a show and you see everybody and the first few hours you’re just walking around and just having a quick chats with everybody and say hi and say, Hey, how are you?

Speaker 1 (26m 30s): Yep.

Speaker 4 (26m 32s): No, I’d really love to go to the shows and Yeah. Well, parties help too. I’m too old

Speaker 3 (26m 38s): For me. Must

Speaker 4 (26m 39s): Bullshit.

Speaker 1 (26m 40s): I’m too old for that shit. I’ve been for a while actually. But now I’ll say something and I’m, I’m sincere about it. People like you guys are, are what really make the shows, you know? And you’re right, we are family, you know, there’s just no two ways about it. This is family. Yes. And this is more family than my own family at times. It really is. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27m 0s): I thought it was the, the worst thing about Covid was not being able to go to shows.

Speaker 1 (27m 5s): Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. It sucked. So guys, what would you have done if you weren’t in this industry?

Speaker 3 (27m 13s): Wow. Well, I studied econometrics, so some boring job with numbers and in suits. So Yeah. I imagine

Speaker 1 (27m 26s): You’d have to cut your hair, man.

Speaker 3 (27m 28s): No, nobody will recognize me then.

Speaker 1 (27m 32s): That’s funny.

Speaker 3 (27m 33s): Chris would be a lawyer, of course.

Speaker 1 (27m 36s): Yes, you would.

Speaker 4 (27m 37s): Well, well, after I finished the university, I actually did a couple of job interviews because I was specialized in Islamic and Christian terrorism.

Speaker 1 (27m 50s): Interesting.

Speaker 4 (27m 50s): So my first, one of my first job interviews was with Dutch Secret Surface. It was fascinating. I just sent them a message. I, I just applied there, there was, there was no job opening. So I just send them an, an email, Hey, yeah, I’m looking for a job. If you have anything, just let me know. And a couple of months later they actually contacted me and say, Hey, we have a job opening for an intelligence officer.

Speaker 1 (28m 17s): Hmm.

Speaker 4 (28m 18s): So I said, oh cool. They, they sent me, it was all official and you can talk about it. You can’t even say that you have an interview somewhere. So they, I went to the job interview and to this punker building with their, normally when you have a big building, you have a nice entrance. This place didn’t have a nice entrance was like site entrance Yeah. With all different parts that you had to pass through. And it was all concrete. And, and I was sitting there and there was six people sitting in front of me just asking Oh geez.

Questions. But they no knew everything about me anyway.

Speaker 1 (28m 52s): Oh, I’m sure they did.

Speaker 4 (28m 53s): Yeah. And I, I fucked that interview up. I mean I was, it was one of my first job interviews ever and I could have done a lot better, but it would would’ve been interesting if they would actually have hired me

Speaker 1 (29m 9s): And Oh hell

Speaker 4 (29m 9s): Yeah. That would be a spy.

Speaker 1 (29m 13s): I like it kinda like double, it’s kinda like oh oh seven or Maxwell Smart.

Speaker 4 (29m 17s): Yeah. I think it would be more not in the field, but

Speaker 1 (29m 21s): You know who Maxwell Smart is, right?

Speaker 4 (29m 24s): No.

Speaker 1 (29m 25s): And what was the, think of what the TV show was and they made a movie out of it. Oh, get smart.

Speaker 3 (29m 31s): It’s in his sixties.

Speaker 1 (29m 32s): Yeah. But the movie was a couple years ago. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I think they had

Speaker 3 (29m 38s): Five.

Speaker 1 (29m 39s): Who’s that actor from the office? He played Maxwell Smart. Oh really? I gotta watch it. Michael’s seen it. Yeah. I gotta watch it. I gotta watch it. It sounds, you know, it sounded like fun. But I love the, I love the, the original show. I’ve actually been binge watching old shows lately. I am in almost towards the end of a show called, which you’ve probably never heard of. And it was also before your time. Everything’s before your time. A show

Speaker 3 (30m 4s): Called Normally we’re old ones.

Speaker 1 (30m 6s): Yeah, exactly. A show called Barney Miller. Yeah. With the candle out Old me and Barney Miller was a great show about New York detectives and Oh my God. Just great shit. Great shit. Anyway, I digress. How would you describe yourself? We’ll start with Tristan and what is your area of expertise?

Speaker 4 (30m 29s): Okay. How would I describe myself?

Speaker 1 (30m 33s): What did you tell those guys at the interview?

Speaker 4 (30m 36s): I think that really sucked because they didn’t hire me. Right. They said I sucked. So how would I describe myself? I would describe myself as a friendly, easygoing person with a dark sense of humor who doesn’t always read the room correctly. So I’m making inappropriate jokes at the wrong time. I see. And which makes me even more. And so my area of expertise I think is just, yeah.

Interacting with people basically, because that’s what I do. I as well as the shows as online and Right. Yeah. Just thinking of new stuff that we can do. Just all these stuff that Rutgers is not doing

Speaker 3 (31m 24s): That pretty much sums up our relationship.

Speaker 1 (31m 26s): There you go. There you go. How about you Rutgers, how would you I

Speaker 3 (31m 30s): Think we’re, we’re pretty much the same kind people really late back, or at least I think I am not too fancy. And yeah. Some weird kind of humor. So there’s a reason Tristan and I are friends and my, my expertise is more the, the programming. Right. So I’m, I’m the nerd and, and stuff I don’t like I send it to Tristan, make sure you do that please, because I don’t like it.

Speaker 1 (31m 60s): There. You,

Speaker 3 (32m 0s): That’s how we work. And then he bucks me with all kinds of developing development questions about, I dunno, avatars that can be rotated or stuff. I think it’s not important.

Speaker 1 (32m 14s): Well it it obviously works. It obviously works.

Speaker 4 (32m 19s): Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32m 20s): I think we compliment each other. There you go. Workwise. So that’s, that’s great.

Speaker 1 (32m 25s): You compliment each other. You walk in the office and say, say Tristan, you look great today. Rutgers, you look wonderful. Yeah, I

Speaker 3 (32m 31s): Got it. Yes. There we,

Speaker 1 (32m 32s): That’s that’s what you do. Okay. We’re very,

Speaker 4 (32m 34s): Very sharp.

Speaker 1 (32m 35s): We’re getting silly. So not that any of us aren’t. So what’s your, what’s your view on the cam industry in general?

Speaker 4 (32m 44s): Before we started, we cam girls, we didn’t know much about the industry. And the longer I stayed in this industry, the more I went to the shows and got to know people, the more I realized I didn’t know. And, but I think we’ve learned a lot in the last 10 years and Oh yeah. We know pretty well how the industry works now. And I think it’s, first of all, the industry is really small in a sense that there are not that many people working in this industry that are not the webcam models.

Sure. So the businesses behind the industry, it’s a pretty small world. I mean, when you go to enough shows, you see all the people and you realize, well it, it’s pretty tight. It’s a pretty tight knit, which makes it as a business in the industry, it makes it, I think it’s nice. Yeah. You get to know people, a lot of companies, a lot of people. But, but after a few years you actually know sort of everybody. True. Which makes it very easy to, to interact and to, if you’re looking for something, you know where to go and who to find and who to talk to.

Speaker 1 (33m 58s): Sure. And, and if, go

Speaker 4 (34m 0s): Ahead. It’s the industry itself. I mean, I think it’s the biggest part of adults and it’s way bigger than all the other parts.

Speaker 1 (34m 10s): True.

Speaker 4 (34m 10s): And they’re making a lot more money. Maybe the adult content creation will, will catch up.

Speaker 1 (34m 16s): Maybe it already has.

Speaker 4 (34m 17s): Maybe it already has. Yeah. But not yet. I mean, there are only a few fan sites that do a lot of money. Sure. And there are more chem sites that do a lot of money. Well,

Speaker 1 (34m 30s): You make a point.

Speaker 4 (34m 31s): And especially after the, the tube sites, of course they sort of destroyed porn in

Speaker 1 (34m 38s): The sense they tried. I don’t think they’ve destroyed it, but

Speaker 4 (34m 41s): No, no. They, I mean porn before, before the tube sites was maybe 8% and now it’s 10% or something. You know, I think tube sites at least it changed porn.

Speaker 1 (34m 54s): They’ve cut, well they’ve cut well into it, but the top membership sites are still doing well. And my feeling about that is the good ones will continue to succeed and continue to grow. And as a website broker, I see the growth every day because I look at the numbers and I also know the type of site that isn’t gonna grow. And that’s the type that doesn’t innovate, that doesn’t try to be different. If somebody stays unique and they stay on top of the game, they’re gonna do very well.

And what the tube sites did, the ones they destroyed, they destroyed the people who were just kind of getting by on the fat of the land. You know, they were just like, yeah, whatever. We’re making so much money, it doesn’t matter. Well guess what? It mattered.

Speaker 4 (35m 41s): Well, yeah, I totally agree. But the, I mean the, the people who are willing to pay for porn now are way less because before this, that it was the only pay to get porn. And now a lot of it is free. So you have a different market and I think it, I think it has a huge impact on the quality of porn. Sure. Absolutely. Because if you buy, absolutely, if you buy porn, it needs to be good quality.

Speaker 3 (36m 6s): Nowadays people are more paying for connection with somebody than just for the porn itself because Right. Why would you pay for porn if you can see it for free? So now you paying to have a connection with the creator, with the cam model Yes. Or the model. So I think that’s, that’s a big

Speaker 1 (36m 23s): Difference. Yep. Interactivity. That’s the name of the game and it’s been for quite a long time now.

Speaker 4 (36m 28s): Yeah. And I think that’s also what sets coming apart from the other parts of, of the adult industry. Sure. Because there’s, there’s nothing at the moment that can replace this human interaction. Right.

Speaker 1 (36m 44s): Maybe,

Speaker 4 (36m 45s): Maybe in a, in a few years when, when you have bots for example, or when you sex robots, but I mean bots in the sense of that when you’re talking to somebody online, you have no clue if this is a real person or if this is a bot,

Speaker 1 (36m 60s): It’s already there, unfortunately.

Speaker 4 (37m 2s): Yeah. And then especially if the, the visuals catch up, then there could be a way to replace at least a bit of the industry with going to talk to bots instead of actual people. Of course people will always be looking and talking to other people in the first place. Sure. But maybe that will have an impact in the future when you have bots and avatars doing the cam shows instead of people.

Speaker 3 (37m 32s): I don’t think so. I think then it’s the same that you have when you can say to bots, do this or do that, the, the bot will do that or the a avatar. I think that’s the same as like porn and people are still willing to pay for, to have a connection with the real human being. Sure. And even, even if you, if you

Speaker 1 (37m 54s): Can’t, if you’ll be able to tell the difference. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37m 56s): Even if you can’t tell the difference, people are still not willing to pay for bots. At least that’s my opinion on it.

Speaker 4 (38m 6s): Well maybe it’s

Speaker 3 (38m 6s): Cause it’s also about power and if you doesn’t, don’t think that that’s, well obviously a little part will be replaced by it but not, not sure

Speaker 4 (38m 27s): Afters perfect though. You can make them perfect for somebody how they look. You can give them wings if you would like. Yeah, yeah. And you can just, you can mix it up.

Speaker 1 (38m 36s): Sure.

Speaker 3 (38m 37s): Wings, maybe we should do this podcast in 10 years again and see who’s right.

Speaker 1 (38m 44s): You’re not gonna wait 10 years to get back on it Took me two years plus two years plus to get you on. What tips do you guys have for new cam models?

Speaker 3 (38m 52s): Go to cam girls.com, sign up and learn from others before you start doing the work. Cause there’s so much to learn and it makes sure you work so much if you’re especially in, there’s so customers that are out just to make off newbies. So it’s true. Know what you’re doing. Learn from other models. Don’t take our route from it. We dunno anything but learn from your peers.

Remember that you’re your own boss. So make sure you only do things that you feel comfortable with.

Speaker 4 (39m 32s): Yeah. Information is key, right. I mean when you get into this industry learn. Yes.

Speaker 1 (39m 39s): I was telling somebody that earlier today actually

Speaker 4 (39m 42s): There, there are a lot of people, if we are making mistakes and you don’t have to repeat these mistakes, you can just Yeah. By learning what other people did, you can avoid a lot of things because there are a lot of people out there who want to, who have interests in making money and getting a piece of your income and there’s no need for that.

Speaker 1 (40m 5s): Right?

Speaker 4 (40m 6s): Yeah. So, so when you Absolutely. Yeah. And when you decide to, to start out there, there are a lot of things to consider. I think most of the models who start getting into ga, their main reason is money And webc is it’s not easy money in the sin in the sense that you

Speaker 3 (40m 28s): Have fried it. Oh goodness. In

Speaker 4 (40m 31s): The sense that you earn a quick buck. Most of the models that are successful that spend half of their time in marketing themselves.

Speaker 1 (40m 40s): Yes.

Speaker 4 (40m 41s): And when you start the, the whole girl goal of being a model is creating a fan base. You need people that are there for you that want to see you on a regular basis. And these are the people who will make your money. Who will make you

Speaker 1 (40m 57s): Money. Yeah. The whales. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40m 60s): Yeah. And people, they once people in general, they go to a campsite with no specific pur purpose, they probably won’t spend any money on you, but when they’re looking for you they will because, and people, they

Speaker 1 (41m 15s): And people will spend a lot of money on campsites.

Speaker 4 (41m 18s): Oh absolutely. And they will spend it on the same people.

Speaker 1 (41m 22s): Sure.

Speaker 4 (41m 23s): They’re not spreading it around on a lot of girls that they just see they want to build a connection and when they

Speaker 1 (41m 30s): Virtual girlfriend.

Speaker 4 (41m 31s): Yeah, exactly. A lot of, absolutely. Absolutely. You don’t have to be successful in the sense of you just have to be successful in connecting with people. Yes. And if you can do that, then you can be successful as a cam model.

Speaker 1 (41m 45s): Sounds good. Well guys, it was a pleasure. I’d like to thank you again for being our guest.

Speaker 3 (41m 51s): Thank you for ING us. You were our, our first podcast We did. So thank you to go easy on us.

Speaker 1 (41m 59s): I try to take it easy on virgins, so thank you for being on adult site broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 3 (42m 8s): Absolutely. Thank

Speaker 1 (42m 9s): You. My broker tip today is part 10 of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it. Later. Last week we talked about what information to give a potential buyer and what determines the value of a site. We’ll continue that today. If a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic, direct traffic, search engine traffic and review site traffic are the most valuable tube traffic the least valuable?

Is the traffic reliable and sustainable? What is the traffic history? In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as a profit and the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the site? Is the domain at.com or something else? Dot com is still king. How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have? In the case of a dating site, this is very important.

Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it? And how much time would be involved? What is the lifetime value of a customer on the site? Next week we’ll talk about how to buy a website and next week we’ll be speaking with Alison Boden of the Free Speech Coalition. And that’s it for this week’s Adult site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests, Tristan and Rutger of We Cam Girls.

Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Julie of Primetime Cams. Adult site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale at Tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is four years old. They’re currently the only free tube providing premium BDSM videos, and it’s been reduced in price.

They regularly add user requests and user provided content after moderation. The owners started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it, and he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular on Reddit and Business Sword. The owners decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry. The site’s visitors come back again and again due to its uniqueness. They have over 13,000 premium videos and most of them are 30 minutes or longer.

With more videos in categories, the site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There is no advertising being done for the site. All of the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic now only $235,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is Julie Smith, the founder and co-owner of Primetime cams.

Hey Julie, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 51s): Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 52s): It’s a pleasure. Now, primetime Cams launched earlier this year. Now Julie is a newcomer to the adult world and has been in the industry only since February, 2021. I’ll be gentle now. Prior to that, she worked in travel, having different customer specialist roles, which is where she learned how impactful great customer service Canon should be. Her passion to create and design can be traced back to her pre-professional days, whether it was drawing large charcoal portraits or creating mixtape covers or logos for local artists with a strong desire to innovate, create, and have a positive impact in her free time.

She loves learning new skills, listening to music and traveling. Primetime CAMS is the first independent marketplace platform of its kind, offering a central collection of trending models, streaming live from major cam sites around the world, including chatter bait, Boga cam strip chat, live, Jasmine and more using some of the latest technology and great features. They offer members a unique and personalized experience with a goal to put fans in front of their favorite webcam models on one platform. Their mission is to bring models and fans together while becoming a destination that will create a level playing field for all webcam creators in the industry.

So how was your commercial? Is it okay?

Speaker 2 (4m 13s): Ooh, that sounded really good. I’m gonna say

Speaker 1 (4m 16s): Had somebody, I had someone, I did an interview yesterday. I had somebody say, Ooh, I’m gonna use that. Is that okay? I said, sure, you can use that. That’s not a problem. So how did you get into this crazy adult industry of ours?

Speaker 2 (4m 29s): Good question. Because that’s

Speaker 1 (4m 30s): Why I asked him

Speaker 2 (4m 32s): A couple years ago. I literally had no idea what chatter bait live jasmine or strip, strip chat was at all. So before I even started in the adult camie industry, I really knew nothing about it until early 2021 when I was first introduced to it. But prior to that, I was working for a travel company for about five years, and then in 2020, which was the in famous year of Covid, unfortunately I was laid off like a lot of people at that time, unfortunately.

Sure. So I was unemployed for about a year, and then last year in February, I actually received a call from a temp agency asking me if I was interested in the customer service role. And the gentleman did kind of explain to me that, you know, Hey, it is adult content, are you okay with it? Or would this be a problem? So, you know, obviously it wasn’t. So I immediately accepted the role working at Chatter Bay as a customer service representative. Cool. Yep.

Basically just answering customer e customer emails, mostly going through a lot of the feedback from the community, learning a lot about the affiliate program and just the entire camming industry as a whole. So yes, that’s, that’s pretty much how I was introduced into the adult industry.

Speaker 1 (5m 53s): Oh, that’s cool. Yes, I know their ceo, Shirley, who’s been dodging me ever since I started this podcast. I hope she hears that. Oh,

Speaker 2 (6m 3s): I haven’t met her. I think I’ve sent a couple. Well,

Speaker 1 (6m 5s): If you go to internet, if you go to internet, like I was suggesting to you before we started this podcast, you will no doubt meet her. So hope so. How, and I’ll make sure and introduce you. So how and why did you start primetime camps?

Speaker 2 (6m 19s): There are actually a few different reasons why I started primetime camps. I think just one of the biggest reasons was due to the feedback that was coming in from the CB community, like one of my daily tasks for months was just to go through like the suggestions and comments that were submitted by the members. Sure. Through the feedback form, which pretty much came from everybody. It came from the models, a lot of the customers and even some of the affiliates. So doing this on a daily basis, I kind of learned like a lot of the frustrations and complaints coming from the entire community.

But it wasn’t until I, like, I really started researching and digging a little deeper. I kind of noticed the same feedback was similar across the board, like regardless of the campsite, like it could have been via cams or strip chat or live jazz. And so that definitely played a huge role for the creation of ptc. But another reason is just the passion that I had when I finally, finally grasped the entire idea of like the affiliate program and like the campsite white labels.

Right. Because when I very first started in the very beginning I was kind of playing around with our white label a little bit. And I don’t know if anybody knows the CB white label, but it’s a nightmare and it can be a challenge, you know, because you can’t really pick a specific niche or like a gender tag or anything like that. And it’s very like very difficult to change the appearance, which is kind disappointing to me because I really like being creative, you know? And I, I couldn’t really do what I wanted to do, but not too long after this, I kind of knew that I wanted to use chatter bait, but I really couldn’t do anything with the white label.

Right. And then I think, you know, I didn’t really have the entire idea or concept until I was speaking with my partner actually when, and I can’t even remember the discussion exactly, but she was like, oh, you should make something like TripAdvisor. And I’m like, oh, you know what? That’s a great idea. You know, why not? Yeah. So for me, call

Speaker 1 (8m 30s): It strip advisor. Ooh. Like that. You

Speaker 2 (8m 32s): Know what, somebody told me that, I’m like, I can’t do that. I can’t change the name I already have.

Speaker 1 (8m 38s): You could be sure you’d get sued for that one,

Speaker 2 (8m 42s): You know what? But I do have something similarly called TripAdvisor 1 0 1. So love, it’s not the exact company name, but Yeah. But you know, fr from there, that’s kind of where primetime cams was born. And if you, you think about it, Bruce, like if you look across any industry, there’s like some type of marketplace, like for music you have Sure. Spotify and SoundCloud for travel, you have something like booking.com and TripAdvisor.

So I kind of wanted to do something similar professional for their adult industry.

Speaker 1 (9m 18s): Very cool. So yeah, I guess some of the, not only the concept, but some of the customer service challenges really inspired you to start this, right?

Speaker 2 (9m 29s): Oh yeah, for sure. You know, I like reading the, I like reading the feedback a lot. I think that if you really listen to your customers, they can give you some really good ideas. They can help you improve as a company in general. So I’m really big on like the feedback and what other people have to say.

Speaker 1 (9m 45s): So how did your background in customer service and your experience help with creating your platform?

Speaker 2 (9m 51s): My background, for me at least, I have a art and graphic design background. Hmm. But still, it kind of took me some time to get back into the flow of things because the last time like that I actually created something was probably back in 2015. So, you know, I’m still trying to figure things out a little bit. But I think this has helped us mostly with our content that we kind of curate on social media and also with our ads and creatives for our advertisement banner.

So, you know, I just really try to have fun with it and you know, I try to be as creative as possible and I just kind of approach it like a art project, especially with our posts and our tweets. That’s kind of where my background fits in, but Right. My partner Shema, he’s, he’s a self-taught full stack developer actually. Oh wow. He has had a lot of experience. Yeah. Yeah. He is, he has had a lot of experience just building web applications, I think about seven years experience.

So he had a pretty good foundation when we actually started. But I think he still faced a lot of, a lot of new challenges with this project.

Speaker 1 (11m 1s): Sure. How did your customer service background help you?

Speaker 2 (11m 6s): Well, you know what, I think that, at least at my previous job, they were really, really big on pleasing the customer, giving good five star customer service and things like that. And then I noticed as well that when you do that, even if the customer’s wrong or you’re wrong or whatever the case may be, people really appreciate your honesty and great customer service. Cuz I know nowadays, especially nowadays, I don’t know what’s in the water. I don’t know what’s going on. But every time I call, call somewhere, I just

Speaker 1 (11m 39s): Terrible. It’s terrible, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (11m 40s): What’s going on?

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): Well, post I, I can tell you exactly what’s going on. Post covid, the corporations realized they could get by with less people and they could get by with virtual work. And now what they, they did after cutting back so many staff members, they haven’t rehired them. And the people that are left are pissed off. And some of those people are leaving because it’s just, it’s just not fun anymore. Especially they were leaving when the government was giving them a bunch of free money.

But

Speaker 2 (12m 13s): I bet

Speaker 1 (12m 13s): Corporate America, huh? Yeah. Might’ve done the same corporate America, except I haven’t had a job in a long time. I knew for myself, they, corporate America, they’ll do anything they can to save a cent and they really don’t give a damn about the customer and they don’t give a damn about their employees. Oh, I could go on for hours about this. I mean, I’ll give you an, I’ll give you an example. Okay. Capital One. I loved Capital One before the pandemic. Their customer service was unbelievable.

Now it’s horrendous. Couple nights ago I was trying to get through to customer service cause I realized I paid my bill twice. How’s that for a good customer? Huh? And I had another account with them that had a balance. So I wanted to move the balance over. You won’t believe how hard it was to get through their automated system. That son of took about three phone calls, not let me through. Oh. And I was screaming at the phone at a certain point. I was like, I was like my bill asshole.

And you know, I know seriously. Okay, my, my wife’s out. I dunno out in the other room like she’s hearing me. Right. And, and it was just, it was just ridiculous. And when I got somebody on the phone, I said, I know it’s not your fault. I know you don’t run this place, but I gotta tell you, you guys have really gone downhill. And I hate the fact that I’m, I have to give that, that feedback every time I call the person I dealt with was fantastic. And I told him so, and I feel bad for customer service people, but my God, you’re right.

Something in the water. Yeah. It’s, it’s bad. It’s really, really, really bad. How’s that

Speaker 2 (13m 51s): For trust customer’s

Speaker 1 (13m 52s): For?

Speaker 2 (13m 54s): I like it. I like it cuz I’m the same way. Our customer service is not gonna be like that. I’m gonna try to respond to everybody, every tweet good. At least acknowledge, you know, like something good.

Speaker 1 (14m 4s): Good. So that’s the, that’s what your customer service background, that’s the, that’s the what’s gonna bring to your, to your new company.

Speaker 2 (14m 12s): Yeah. Hopefully.

Speaker 1 (14m 14s): Oh, you’ll do it. You’ll do it. I got confidence in you. I got confidence in you. I already got a great feeling about you and we still haven’t met, so,

Speaker 2 (14m 23s): Aw, thank you.

Speaker 1 (14m 24s): So how did you meet your business partner and tell us how he’s contributed to the success of the project?

Speaker 2 (14m 30s): Oh, Shama. Shama Shama. Isn’t he great? Isn’t he amazing? I can’t believe I got lucky with him. Oh my goodness. But Shma, he’s, he’s actually the second developer that has worked on the project and I actually met him through my partner’s cousin. So like during the initial stages and the first few weeks of primetime cams, I had a developer that I knew and worked with for my previous job and he actually helped us out a lot and kind of helped us tie the entire idea together.

But unfortunately he couldn’t really commit to the completion of the site. I was left without a developer but

Speaker 1 (15m 7s): Old, it’s an old story,

Speaker 2 (15m 10s): You know, even. Yeah. But even before that I, I remember having a conversation with my partner’s cousin Dario, and he’s actually a front end developer if I’m not mistaken. I was kinda shown project and what I have so far. And he was giving me really good, good feedback on him as well. Even to this day when I reach out to him, he’ll, he’s very, very helpful. Sure. But as soon as I lost the first developer, I reached out to him and I was like, Hey, I need somebody really, really, really good.

Who do you know? Oh. And that’s when he gave me shims contact information. And then from there he’s just been grinding on the project. And this is with a full-time job. So he has a full-time job and then he works on primetime as well, which is just crazy to me. Cause he’s super, super efficient. He started working on the project in February and he was able to get something live in the middle of May. Hmm. But his contribution has been huge man. I think.

I think the concept in entire idea was great. But he kind of transformed everything that we originally had and he just took it to another level, I think. But sure. Yeah. I got really lucky with him. He’s super incredible.

Speaker 1 (16m 25s): You need, you need somebody like that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): Oh yeah. Oh yeah. He takes PR care of pretty much anything that’s technical and I do everything else. So currently it’s just the two of us trying to figure things out. So we do everything. I’m very artistic and when I had, when I had this idea, it wasn’t like this in the beginning at all. It would definitely wasn’t like this. So I kind of started drawing out the wire frames and trying to put everything together.

But I think the most important thing is just, I’m really, really, really creative and I try to approach everything just like it’s a art project. And as far as Shema, like I said before, he’s, he’s a full stack developer. Yeah. So he’s had a lot of experience just building web applications at his previous job. So me, my, my ref design and art experience. Then he’s just a self-taught full stack developer.

Speaker 1 (17m 30s): Great team, great team.

Speaker 2 (17m 32s): Think we make a great team. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Like it’s crazy because he’ll do something when I thought about it last week and it’s just like, wow, we’re super in line.

Speaker 1 (17m 41s): Yeah. You need to have talents that blend well together to have a successful partnership among other things. But that’s, yeah, for sure. That’s kind of the minimum. That’s kind of the minimum for sure. So being new to the industry, plus having a developer saves you a lot of money. Ooh. Okay. Being new to the industry, what are some of the most helpful resources that have helped you along the way?

Speaker 2 (18m 6s): Good question. You know what, there, there are quite a few. Since we are newer to the industry, I feel like we pretty much have to be super sponges and just soak up a lot of information. So I’m pretty much all over the place trying to find things to read. But I think the first one that I was introduced to and started using was when I was working for Chatter Bay and that was amber cutie.com and it’s like a forum with like models customers. And there are a few campsites on there as as well.

But I just really enjoy reading some of the feedback from the customers and the models. It’s, it’s really good. I don’t know if you ever had the time to go on there, but Yeah. I think it’s good feedback for any campsite in the industry, but they can be brutally honest. I, I love it. And then another one was, yeah, another one that I used heavily in the beginning was the porn.com, which is like super helpful because it has a directory for everything related to porn and Oh nice.

Also web masters as well. And then we Cam Girls is another forum. All my friends, some of the models believe

Speaker 1 (19m 18s): It not believe it or not, I’ve got an interview with those guys on an hour and a half.

Speaker 2 (19m 22s): Nice. Yeah. You know everybody,

Speaker 1 (19m 25s): I get around, I get they’re, they’re good friends. They’re good friends.

Speaker 2 (19m 29s): Nice. But yeah, so we, camgirl is a good one. I feel like that’s the more professional version of Amber Cutie. Of course. And then have

Speaker 1 (19m 37s): You met, have you met those guys?

Speaker 2 (19m 39s): I have not. You know what, I actually emailed, I forget the name. I emailed someone over there. Tristan get her name on the web. Yes. Tristan. Yeah. So I emailed Tristan in the very, so tho those guys own, we cam Girls in.

Speaker 1 (19m 54s): Yep. Yep. Well you come come to the Vegas, come to the Vegas show and you’ll meet them too. I’ll make sure

Speaker 2 (19m 60s): I’m coming.

Speaker 1 (20m 1s): I know I’m selling you. I’m selling you. Excellent. So, so what technology are you using and what can users expect?

Speaker 2 (20m 11s): So all of the technology honestly was introduced to me by Shema. He introduced it to me, said, Hey, I used this, this and this. I did a little bit of research and I’m like, okay, perfect. Looks good to me. But you know, our web application is custom built and it’s custom built from scratch using Aguilar and JavaScript. And we also have like a couple different databases that we use both for online and offline models.

And that a, that allows us to do a lot, but it’s also very complex. But you know, I hope that, you know, when users come to our platform, we’re really hoping that they just have the best live webcam experience. You know, we don’t have any ads and it’s completely free to use, believe it or not. So when you create an account, you’ll be able to use any old features. So we just tried to create something that would give users just the best overall experience and Right.

Bring something that was familiar, fun and interactive, I guess, you know.

Speaker 1 (21m 19s): Sure. I would imagine your revenue models affiliate revenue, right?

Speaker 2 (21m 23s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21m 24s): Okay. That’s correct. Okay. How are you, how are you promoting it?

Speaker 2 (21m 28s): So honestly, marketing was actually something that me and Shema learned on the fly. So in the very beginning I kind of knew that I would have to heavily rely on social media. Sure. Cause we, we don’t have a budget or a very large budget at all. So I knew that I would have to like really try to be creative and just stand out. So I kind of started using and testing social media post out in the beginning. And I think I’ve refined that to be pretty good.

So I do a lot of the promotion through our social media platforms like Instagram, which I’m getting ready to, I don’t know, they’re gonna block me. They’re gonna, they’re gonna take

Speaker 1 (22m 12s): I was gonna ask you about that. I’m gonna ask you about that.

Speaker 2 (22m 17s): Be careful. Yeah, yeah. Super, super. But Twitter, yeah.

Speaker 1 (22m 23s): Doesn’t, mark doesn’t like us pornographers.

Speaker 2 (22m 27s): Oh man. They, it is, cause the way that I’m kind of creating our Instagram social media is color coordinated and it’s like a color scale gradient. So if one post is deleted, it just kind of messes up everything. So I kind of have to figure out a different way on how to make it work, but Interesting. Yeah. So social media and then actually Shim is the one who, who introduced SEO to me. So we worked on that for about a month and we did a lot of research and started from just the very basics of just trying to understanding, trying to learn what it was to submitting a site map.

So he submitted a site map after we kind of learned a lot about it. We did a lot of keyword research and competitive analysis. So it’s still an ongoing process,

Speaker 1 (23m 18s): Which is a lot, the competition in Cams is brutal. And unfortunately you have to compete with your partners.

Speaker 2 (23m 25s): Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I think I, I think I figured out a hack, but we’ll see if it works.

Speaker 1 (23m 34s): Careful. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23m 36s): If we screw

Speaker 1 (23m 37s): Careful with that too.

Speaker 2 (23m 37s): Screw oh man. If we screw anything up though, I’ll just probably have to hire your guy Robert, from too much.

Speaker 1 (23m 47s): Oh yes, yes, definitely.

Speaker 2 (23m 50s): I might have to get him on.

Speaker 1 (23m 52s): There you go. There. You, you’ve been listening to my podcast, huh?

Speaker 2 (23m 56s): I have. I have.

Speaker 1 (23m 57s): You’re good. Good. Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it. Robert’s a gem. He’s a good dude. Known him for a very long, long time. He was one of the first people I met in the industry well over 20 years ago, so,

Speaker 2 (24m 8s): Nice.

Speaker 1 (24m 9s): There’s a lot of people like that. So what’s unique about this platform and the features that primetime Cams has to offer?

Speaker 2 (24m 17s): Oof so many things. I think,

Speaker 1 (24m 19s): Well, tell me what they are.

Speaker 2 (24m 22s): I think just one of the biggest things aside just from the technology that we’re using is just an adult marketplace for live cams. Right. Just having the capability to see any model that’s live from any of the integrated cam sites simultaneously, you know? Right. And that’s across any category, gender, country, or age. And the five platforms that we currently have on our site are chat, debate, of course, F cams, Skype, private Live, Jasmine, and strip chat.

I would say that our most unique feature is probably, definitely primetime pages, which is something that I created all of part of my primetime. And this is where our members really start to personalize their experience by, you know, creating a page with any of the models that are available from the live five cam sites. It’s kinda similar to a list on Twitter or a playlist on Spotify, but there’s a lot of different things that I wanna do with this in the future.

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): Okay. Okay. Are you planning on adding more campsite and if so, when?

Speaker 2 (25m 34s): You know, when I, when I very first started this project and I had like wireframe design together, I literally had every single campsite on there. I’m like, oh, I’m putting everybody on there. But you know, from a development and startup perspective, it wasn’t really feasible. So I needed to just select between like four to five cam sites and we would like slowly integrate more CAM sites as our user base in traffic group.

Okay. But yeah, for the next phase, which I’m not really 100% sure, I wanna add some newer CAM sites and smaller ones too. So I think cams.com is gonna, we’re gonna add them next. They’ve been patiently waiting for us and then I think

Speaker 1 (26m 19s): Nice to be in that position.

Speaker 2 (26m 21s): Yeah. I think we’ll get Cherry TV on there next, which is one of the newer ones. Right. And then I think it’s only right to add my free cams in stream eight next.

Speaker 1 (26m 34s): Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, those are, so those are all good ones. No two ways about it. So from a tech standpoint, what challenges are you facing?

Speaker 2 (26m 43s): Ooh, Shima faced, I think some great challenges. I think one of the biggest challenges that he faced was just trying to keep all the platforms in sync and to know which models are online, which models are offline, what category they’re in, what gender they’re in. And then another thing that he had to do was kind of standardize the information offered by each platform about US models to try to create a really, really good database.

And I’ll give you an example. If you go to banga cams.com and look at their list of tags is very unique to their CAM site. Okay. And you are not gonna find a lot of those tags on strip chat or on Chatter Bay. Interesting. So what he had to do was try to kind of find a way to standardize all the tags into database so it makes sense for the actual user. And then just lastly, I think just try to make all this information just quickly accessible to the user.

You know, where if you know, we have a lot of users online, we wanted to make sure that the load times were fast.

Speaker 1 (27m 51s): Right? Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27m 52s): So I think those are the

Speaker 1 (27m 54s): Yeah. People will not wait.

Speaker 2 (27m 56s): Right.

Speaker 1 (27m 57s): I like, I like to say people have the attention span these days of a nat.

Speaker 2 (28m 2s): Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (28m 4s): And Nats do not have very long attention span. So I hear, I don’t know many, I go to primetime cams, what, what am I gonna see and what am I gonna experience?

Speaker 2 (28m 15s): So, you know, when I, when I show the site to someone, they immediately think, oh, is this Netflix or is Spotify or YouTube? It has that kind of feel to it. Okay. And the technology is very new and we wanted something that was really, really familiar to anybody. Even the way that you navigate when you scroll up, when you scroll down, like our platform is very familiar with the everyday apps that people are using on their, on their phone and their devices.

Speaker 1 (28m 49s): Right. Very good. So do you plan on having your own models in the future?

Speaker 2 (28m 55s): I think that’s probably what everybody would expect next May, you know, maybe that’s a possibility, but I think right now our main focus is just providing users with the best possible experience. And then after that, once we’re able to generate enough tra traffic, I wanna be able to kind of do something and give back to the models, like in a big way. Something that you know will be useful for them and to help them be more successful when they’re camming. So maybe after that, I don’t know when that’s gonna be a couple years, but I’m not really sure.

We’ll see.

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): Okay. Yeah, you got time. So what are some valuable lessons you’ve learned throughout the process of creating primetime camps?

Speaker 2 (29m 39s): Mm. Like I said in, in the beginning, patience. Oh my goodness, I, I definitely learned patience for sure because before this entire thing started, like I had no patience at all. I know I probably drove, drove shimmer crazy, he hated me at times probably. But you know, I wanted it to be done as quickly as possible and like by anyone that could do it. But you know, I had to learn that things can take time. Yes. You know, especially if you want them to be great and not just good or mediocre, so, right.

Yeah. Patience for one. And then secondly, I think just not to try to control everything. You know, you wanna kind of go with the flow and right when I started I had envisioned everything in my mind like when this was supposed to happen, when that was supposed to happen, when this feature was gonna launch,

Speaker 1 (30m 30s): It’ll nuts, nuts

Speaker 2 (30m 33s): At all when they’re supposed to try not to control everything

Speaker 1 (30m 41s): Are, are good life lessons to learn for sure. Yeah. So what are the future goals for your company?

Speaker 2 (30m 48s): So our, our main goal at this moment is just to increase traffic in our user base. So once we’re able to do that, like I said before, like I really want to do something cool for the models, like provide them with something, tools to help them be more successful. And I have some ideas in mind, but nothing is really concrete yet. And yeah, I’m sure it will give us a lot more challenges, but I think that doing that for them would be very, very cool.

I don’t think any, any cam site or any anybody in the porn industry does what I want to do. So, but we have to be patient, allow everything to happen just organically. Sure. And naturally and just try not to bite off more than we can choose. So, but I’m thinking the model side of things are going to be next. Like claim their account or claim their profile and then provide them with some tools and resources.

Speaker 1 (31m 43s): That’s fantastic. Look, the models are the product, the models are what makes it go. So it’s really, really important to take care of the models.

Speaker 2 (31m 52s): Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (31m 54s): What are you working on now?

Speaker 2 (31m 56s): Right now we’re doing a little bit of everything. The most significant thing is just kind of ironing iron, ironing out is it for you to say woo, you’re right. Slowly, you know, I’m slowly starting network with other individuals in the company, in the industry SEO right now and just keep coming up with good ideas and hopefully we’ll see some things happen.

Speaker 1 (32m 23s): Absolutely. You know, the creator, the whole creator industry has, has gotten so big. Is there any thought of bringing that into primetime cams?

Speaker 2 (32m 34s): I don’t know, I think I just wanna kind of strictly keep it to the, the cam industry, you know, give them something special. I think that there are a lot of creator platforms going on right now, so yeah, I think it’s, I think I just wanna keep it in the the adult cam industry for now, but that can change in the future. I think

Speaker 1 (32m 55s): Anything can change the, yeah. The thing that stays the same as everything changes.

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): Right.

Speaker 1 (33m 4s): Well Julie, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broker talk and I hope we’ll ch get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (33m 11s): All right. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (33m 13s): It’s my pleasure. My broker tip today is part nine of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about what information to provide a potential buyer. Here’s more. Tell them what’s special or different about your website, how is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all the websites you’re selling in addition to any domains that come along with the sale, is there anything that adds value to the sale? Provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer any information.

Have them sign a non-disclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh I don’t know, adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours and they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale such as price and any payment terms before closing the sale. Find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected.

We have those resources of course. Let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or trending down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time annual profits if sales are taking a nose dive.

We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Tristan and Rutger from We Cam Girls. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Julie of Primetime Cams. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with performer Christina Castalia.

Speaker 1 (34s): Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point oh at adultsitebroker.com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.

You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue.

The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords. As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner has developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer.

The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the site and on third party sites. The store currently has no employees, aside from the owner who works only 10 to 15 hours a week on it. SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is performer Christina Castilla.

Christina, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 48s): Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 50s): It’s a pleasure to have you. Now Christina is from Amsterdam, one of my favorite places, and she’s a cam girl and content creator. She is is Dutch and Greek and speaks Dutch English and some Greek in German. She calls herself a big belly bitch and a hairy Greek goddess. I love those. She’s been in the industry for 11 years, starting when she was 19, to support herself while going through a law school. She started a small on a Dutch platform and has been on international platforms for almost eight years.

In 2021 she won ex’s Best. B b w Cam model was ex Bis Camstar of the month in September 21 and was featured in Exs World and Hustler Online magazine. When she’s not camming or creating, she can be found walking through nature, singing and making music, sitting on her balcony, playing Pokemon go battles, talking to strangers, shaking her big booty in the club and trying to beat the world record of orgasms.

Ooh, that sounds interesting. We will talk about that later. Christina, how did you go from the small Dutch platform you started on to working internationally?

Speaker 2 (4m 5s): Tumblr actually the Dutch platform, I mean, camming back then was very different than it is now. So the Dutch platform I started on, I actually started because I wanted to do phone sex. So they offered phone sex coming without sound and then camming with sound and you could only make 24 hours and 24 year hours an hour. That was the maximum because you had like a set amount, you couldn’t change your own rates. But back then I was 19 years old, I was like, okay, this is pretty good money.

Yeah. Because I didn’t know any better. Right. And then I got on Tumblr and I saw all these girls on like my free camps and all that kind of stuff and I was like, oh, they’re making a lot more money than I am. And then I kind of just ventured out a little bit. I was a little hesitant at first. Yeah. Because I started without showing my face as well because I was in school and you see thousands of people there every day. So I didn’t want people to recognize me. Yeah. And I think it was my second or last year in college where I decided to go on stream mates actually.

And it was just because, I don’t know, it seemed interesting and fun and the possibilities were a lot bigger.

Speaker 1 (5m 23s): How did things work out when you went to streaming?

Speaker 2 (5m 25s): Pretty good actually. I really enjoyed it. The setup there was also very different on the Dutch platform. I only spoke to people really if they called in. So if there were no clients, you were just, I just sitting there waiting for something to happen. So in the beginning it was pretty good because I would just be doing my homework while waiting for a call. Yeah. But so it was very different because suddenly you’re in this free chat and you have to entertain from the start. Right. But I quite enjoyed that.

Speaker 1 (5m 56s): So how did you go from camming to creating content?

Speaker 2 (5m 60s): That was also a pretty natural development really. I, again, through Tumblr I saw all these girls also doing like fetish clips and stuff like that. I saw sites like clips for sale and it just seemed fun to do something like that. And I really didn’t know what I was doing at all. I just kind of like saw what other girls were doing and maybe seeing, oh, like maybe that would be fun to do and just kind of put my own spin on it. Yeah. And then very quickly, I actually had a few guys who would contact me for custom videos and that’s how I’ve done most of my videos since.

Cuz I am, I’m really more of a camera than a A contents creator. Yeah. I like the instant gratification of that interaction I think.

Speaker 1 (6m 41s): Sure. By the way, what’s, what’s the strangest request you ever got for a custom video?

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): See at some point things aren’t, that’s strange anymore. So it’s

Speaker 1 (6m 53s): Like, yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 2 (6m 55s): Yeah, it’s like what is the strangest, at some point it’s almost more strange when they’re just like, oh, can I just see your face? It’s like, oh that’s all that is kind of odd. But one that I wa that was very unique, the first few strange ones for me were like four videos. So where the guy only wanted to see like my mouth close up and like my sharp teeth. And then he had like this whole scenario played out like a, like a small script where the gummy bears stole his car and I had to punish them.

But I kind of like that because you couldn’t really get in character like yeah, I’m gonna punish these naughty bears and I would use like all of these different kind of bears. I’ve done like, I think 15 videos for him like that. And the most recent, I guess odd one was a guy who, cuz I am Greek so I have a little bit of a girl stash, you know? And like I have full full hair and this guy really liked girls with facial hair and he wanted me to with makeup, put like extra as if I had little bit of a beard.

Yeah. But I, I kind of look good with a beard, I’m not gonna lie really. I was like ok, I kind of fuck boy immediately funny. Started acting like a boy. But the whole thing was that he apparently once had a, a not so nice interaction with an ex-girlfriend of his where he caught her shaving. And I don’t know if this is true or just a fetish, but the thing was that he felt shamed, this is how he explained it to me. He felt shamed for actually liking girls with facial hair.

So he was really embarrassed about this for a long time and he kind of, he didn’t ask for this but I was like, okay, so we’re gonna play out this idea but then I’m gonna turn it into something that would’ve been an optimal fantasy for him. Yeah. So I kind of took that scenario and twisted it to be kind of the same thing where he caught me shaving for our date night and then we had this conversation and it turned out that everything is okay if he likes girls with facial hair and he will be proud of me.

And it was really mostly a talking video, very I guess girlfriend experience like, and it was something I’ve never heard or seen before. So I guess that might be the oddest one because all the other odd ones you see people do a lot more.

Speaker 1 (9m 13s): Oh yeah, yeah. You know, before I got into the adult industry. Geez. My ideas then of what was on and my ideas now of what are odd

Speaker 2 (9m 24s): Ah, it shifts. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (9m 26s): Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (9m 28s): Yeah. I always say everything is weird or nothing is weird and the same goes, everything is normal or nothing is normal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (9m 34s): I mean look, yeah, everything’s normal to somebody and that’s why there’s so many niches. That’s why there’s so many types of performers. Yeah. And hey the old saying whatever turns you on, which was a saying back when I was young, it still holds true.

Speaker 2 (9m 58s): It really does. Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (10m 1s): So what did you, why did you choose sex work over working in law after going to law school? And did you ever work in law?

Speaker 2 (10m 9s): I graduated in 2015 and I had a few internships with like local municipalities and stuff like that. And I really noticed cuz I, and I was doing sex work on the side and I was making really good money so I, I was the only one that didn’t have any student loans. I think people kind of thought I was like a trust fund baby or something because I didn’t say that I had a job either. I just always had money. I saw the way they interacted with people and this was like very, I think it’s difficult civil law in English, but I always just felt like the, the civilians were getting gonna cuss.

Right. Yeah. Getting fucked over. It’s like, but you can’t expect normal people to know all of these rules. And it’s like they were so excited all the time when they got to screw someone over that I was like, I don’t like this. No. So, and then I got involved with this union and I kind of said to myself, you know what, I’m always almost graduating. I’m not gonna use my degree unless I can actually do something where I can actually help people. Maybe something human rights involved. Until then I’m just gonna see where this goes.

I’m just gonna see, you know Sure. If I can make more money with this. Cuz I never really planned on staying in it. It was just supposed to be a side job next to school. Yeah. Right. And then only I think two or so months later I was asked to start a legal office at a union for sex workers. I coordinated that for a few years, again doing sex work on the side because it was an NGO so it really didn’t pay a lot. Right. It was almost like volunteer work.

So I did do that for a few years, I think about three years. But for me it was very, and I don’t know if I wanna do something like that, that again because of this, because it is, you are in control of someone’s life basically. And if you don’t help them properly, if you mess up you really can mess something up for people’s lives possibly forever. Yeah. And that was weighing really heavy on me. And oftentimes again because you have all of these rules, if someone was only just a day late, you could just not do anything anymore.

Right. And I would be staying up late at night trying to figure out things and working with lawyers and, but oftentimes you just can’t help people anymore. And that yeah. Was just weighing so heavy on me that I had a little bit of a burnout in 2018 and I was like, okay, well I’m not, I’m gonna stop doing that. And then I went back to doing sex work mostly full-time. But then I always have some kind of like side things here and there. I always me meadow into sex work advocacy and lobbying if I can. Cuz I just like to, I can, it doesn’t let me go.

Speaker 1 (12m 49s): Yeah. Well I think look as it should be my favorite lawyer joke by the way, you know California has a lot of lawyers, right. And New Jersey has a lot of toxic waste dumps. You know why that is? Right.

Speaker 2 (13m 3s): No

Speaker 1 (13m 4s): New Jersey had first choice. So what’s the main focus in your shows and your content?

Speaker 2 (13m 12s): Well my content, because it is mostly custom based, it kind of depends and it really, the, the most of it is still like the B B W fetishes and the hairy niche and my CAM shows are pretty diverse. Right. I’ve noticed that they change a lot as well. Like the older I get, the more younger clients I get and not only because I get older, but when I was in my early twenties, most of my clients were at least over 35 and most of them in their forties.

But then now that I’m in 30 years old, a lot of my clients are like in their early twenties or like 20 to 35, 40 at a max. I still have some older clients here and there and I have a lot of clients that I had for eight years on streaming. Wow. So I’m very grateful for that. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. But I would say still most of them I would, it’s like 50 50, 50% is mostly what I call Fila. So that’s like your deep touting, which I absolutely love to do. Language or pussy squirting.

And then half it is more fetish based, so whether that be the hairy or maybe belly play or I do a lot of dom stuff as well. So I have a lot of cooks and sissies and all kinds of stuff like that. And my content is kind of like revolved around those kind of topics as well.

Speaker 1 (14m 30s): Okay. So how did you decide to venture into the hairy niche?

Speaker 2 (14m 36s): Well, kind of naturally, like I said, I’m Greek so at some point, as we say in Dutch, it’s fact a beer guy, which is just, there is no fighting it. And for me, I also have very sensitive skin. I think I started stopped shaving my armpits I think like 2013 or so mostly just because it, it was always irritating me and I would always get all of these really nasty bumps and I was like, who the fuck am I doing this for? Because it’s sure as hell isn’t me because I am not pleased.

Well my skin looks like this. So I stopped with shaving the armpits first and then I noticed people actually really liked it. So I was like, okay, that’s something I guess slowly it just progressed into just not shaving most of my body really. And sometimes I would get a little in a, in a mood and I’ll be like, oh, I’m gonna shave my legs or I’m gonna shave the pussy lips a little bit here and there. But honestly most of the time I just can’t be fucked. And I actually really like hair as well and I, I think it’s just really nice like her, your hands through the hairs and it’s just nice and soft.

And at some point before I met my Kiran boyfriend, I was, went on a lot of Tinder dates. Some of the guys at first would be like, oh, I’m not going to eat Harry pussy. And like, well then I guess you’re not gonna eat pussy cuz I’m not gonna shave you And then we’re not gonna fuck either. Cuz if you’re a man who’s afraid of hair, then I, I don’t, you’re just not a man. You can have preferences, but if you’re actually like adamant on, I’m not gonna fuck a hairy pussy, sir, good luck to you. Yeah, really. And the funny thing is that pretty much all of them basically became obsessed with it.

And I’m convinced it’s the, the hairy pussy magic. It’s the pheromones that’s in there. You know, I always say it’s the flavor saver. That’s what makes it taste so good. It’s funny that’s just kind of like how it naturally kind of grew and yeah, at first, the first few years, I guess like 2014 to basically 20 20, 20 21, I’m, I’m not good at marketing so I wouldn’t even market with it. It was just kind of like, this is just who I am and if you don’t like it, you don’t like it.

But now thinking back, I should have been marketing with it. Like, hey, I’m a harry bitch all along. I just had a very big, not a disdain, but like, I don’t know, I’m, I don’t know. Like I said, marketing is my biggest downfall cuz I’m just

Speaker 1 (16m 60s): Many people.

Speaker 2 (17m 1s): Yeah,

Speaker 1 (17m 2s): That’s, that’s the biggest downfall for a lot of business people actually. Yeah. What is the world record for orgasms and how close have you come?

Speaker 2 (17m 16s): Pun intended because I think, if I remember correctly, I should have looked this up, it was 134 orgasms in one hour. My god. For women? Yeah, for women it’s either 1 34 or 1 36, but I wanna say 1 34 for men, it’s only 16 in one hour. And I feel like that’s, that’s easy. We can do it in like at least 10 minutes For me, that’s easy. I’m very blessed that I’m a very easy comer. I’ve never had to fake an orgasm in my life.

And the clothes I’ve come was actually with a client who was really adamant in helping me. So he would take me private for like an hour and he would just be counting the orgasms because at some point I can’t count him anymore. I’m just like this. Yeah. Sex obsessed craze, like exorcist kind of style.

Speaker 1 (18m 7s): He off peel you off the ceiling. Right.

Speaker 2 (18m 9s): Literally off the floor literally. And the closest we got was around 70 in one hour. Oh

Speaker 1 (18m 17s): You got a ways to go girl.

Speaker 2 (18m 18s): Yeah, I’m, I’m almost halfway

Speaker 1 (18m 22s): Way to go. Way to go. So being a B B W, do you feel like you need to stay looking a certain way to be appealing to your fans?

Speaker 2 (18m 32s): Yes and no, actually. Which

Speaker 1 (18m 35s): One?

Speaker 2 (18m 36s): Yeah, well both a little bit because I do, again, I feel very lucky a lot of my clients like me for me, right. So they don’t really care. Like some of them do have a preference for bald girls, but they like me so they’re like, okay, well we’re gonna fuck this hairy pussy. So a few years ago I used to be bigger than I am now and I lost a lot of weight because I was pretty sick. For me, I got pretty skinny and I had a lot of clients who were literally telling me that I looked ugly and that they weren’t coming back. And I was like, well Jesus, I’m sorry that I’m sick,

Speaker 1 (19m 9s): Sorry I’m trying to be healthy here.

Speaker 2 (19m 11s): Yeah. But well I’m also, I’m trying to be, but I was, I was just, I was not. Well yeah, it was a farrier rough part in my life and when I felt a little bit better and also with the Corona like I gained, I gained some Corona kilos. I’m actually trying to shed them a little bit because I wanna get back into power lifting. But then there’s also people that say, oh I did like you better when you were bigger or I liked you better when you were skinnier. And it’s kind of like, but you can never really please everybody. No. So I think like a few years ago, yeah a few years ago I, it was gets me a little bit more like especially because you, you are not feeling well and people are suddenly telling you on all sides like, oh you’re not good enough.

But then it’s also the side where you’re sick but people are telling you, oh you look so great. It’s like, well here I’m getting this message here, I’m getting this message, I feel like I’m dying. I don’t know, this is kind of messing with me a little bit. Yeah. And at this point it’s just kind of like they, they’re are the girls, if you like them skinnier, they are there and I feel like them bigger, they, they are there as well. They

Speaker 1 (20m 11s): Gotta let it go. You gotta let it

Speaker 2 (20m 13s): Go. You really do. Yeah. But it, it is something they really do mention it when they see a change.

Speaker 1 (20m 19s): Oh no, let you,

Speaker 2 (20m 21s): It’s like, okay, thank you for noticing that one kilo I gained or lost. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20m 27s): Oh the wonders of social media. Don’t get me started. So have you seen the camming industry change in the last 11 years?

Speaker 2 (20m 36s): Yes, absolutely. But also just from starting on a, on a Dutch platform that was very small. Sure. I don’t know how it is for other girls that have been in it for so long, but for me I didn’t, I don’t know, I feel like we didn’t, at least I didn’t know that you could actually make really good money and this could be like a real job back then it was just kind of like, I don’t know, something that you did if you were a little bit exhibitionist or like a little bit of a frisky girl and al already that out outlook has changed so much because now girls really get into it thinking I’m gonna make big money.

Yeah. And I feel like only that already is such a big difference technology-wise. When I started with a, with a content creation back in, when was it? Like 2014 if you had like 10 80 X P H D, that was like the shit. And then I was working as a legal professional and I didn’t really make any contact in those years because I didn’t have the time. But I come back three years later in 2018 and suddenly everybody is shooting in 4K and I’m like what the hell? So I feel like there, there’s really a lot of big differences that happened really, really quickly.

Speaker 1 (21m 46s): Sure. And the other thing is that these camgirls hear about and creators too, obviously with the advent of only fans, they hear about the performers making tons and tons of money. Yeah. And they all assume they’re going to and that’s not necessarily the case.

Speaker 2 (22m 9s): No. And I think for most people it isn’t the case.

Speaker 1 (22m 11s): No, no. You gotta figure a way to be unique and either they like it or they don’t. And some have hit it big and some have done nothing and

Speaker 2 (22m 24s): Yeah. And I think most people are actually just kind of in between there.

Speaker 1 (22m 28s): I think it all comes down to effort too. It comes down to effort and it also comes down to talent and a lot consistency personality too.

Speaker 2 (22m 37s): Yeah, I think so too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22m 39s): Big time. I know you don’t have any problem in that area, Christina. Oh,

Speaker 2 (22m 43s): Thank you.

Speaker 1 (22m 44s): So what are some of your favorite stories about sessions you’ve done on Cam?

Speaker 2 (22m 50s): My very favorite, which has been a favorite of mine for many years now was in 2016 in Holland we have two Christmas days. So we have first Christmas day and second Christmas day. Yeah. And I was with family on second Christmas day and I wasn’t actually even supposed to be online that day. Right. I think this was in 2016. And, but I was home earlier and I was a little tipsy and I was like, fuck it, I’m just gonna get online and see what happens. And there was this guy who was talking to me and at first I kind of thought he was like a troll or something because I don’t know, he was talking kind of like, like he wasn’t responding to what I was saying.

But he also, it was weird. And then he asked for a camp to camp. So I told him, okay sure. In exclusive. And I was like, let’s see what this guy’s up to. And he took me private and he kept doing the camp to cam request. So at first I was a little annoyed. I was like, no you, you have to take me exclusive. But then he kept trying it and he wasn’t leaving and you can’t really kick someone out. At least I still haven’t figured out how to without going offline. So I was like, okay, fuck you, I’m gonna be mad at you and I’m just gonna accept your camera. I’m gonna shout at you or something.

I don’t, I don’t really know what I thought. And he turned his scam on and immediately I could tell that, and I’m not trying to be rude here, but it could tell that he was clearly very autistic or something like that. Aw. And so immediately I softened up and he seemed really, really nervous as well. Like I’ve yeah have OCD as well and a ADHD and I have a lot of like ticks and stuff that I do, especially when I was younger, when I was really nervous. So I noticed a lot of those in him. Yeah. So I just started having a conversation with him and yes, again, he was really, really nervous and I just pointed out the things I saw but keeping them to myself.

So I was like, you know when I’m nervous I do this or this or this and do you have that as well? And when I mentioned those things, he seemed really elated. He was like, oh my God, I’ve never spoken to anybody else who feels like that. Wow. And it turned out that he barely ever even talks to peers because he was so socially anxious. He’s barely ever talked to a woman. I was think, what was I 25 at the time? Something like that. He was in his thirties. He had never kissed a girl before and because he’s clearly someone that has issues, people talk down to him a lot and he was actually pretty intelligent.

He was working in it, but people would always talk to him like he was a child. That’s true. And this was the first time he said that someone actually talked to him, like just a normal person would talk to him. And I think we were private for over an almost an hour at some point. I was a little nervous cuz I was like, oh does he, is he aware how much money he is spending now? So I tried to point that out and he was like, oh, should I give you more money? And I was like, no, no, that’s okay. Like don’t gimme more money. And I didn’t really know what to do.

I was like, should I end, end the call or is then someone else maybe gonna take advantage of him. So I was like, okay, I’m just gonna stay and give him what I think he needs. Yeah. And he was so sweet. At some point he got out his guitar, he was like, can I play a song for you? And he was lovely singing and playing his song and Nice, we were having such a nice conversation. He was sharing so much of himself with me. And over the course of that hour you could literally see such a change in him as a person. So from being basically a nervous wreck to just being a very open wow person who was really, really happy.

At some point he asked me at towards the end he was like, can I see one titty? And I was like, babe, you can have both of them. What else do you want? And at the end, and then again it was like second Christmas day and this is a time where a lot of people are often very depressed. Yeah. He told me, he was like, Christina, are you aware that you save people’s lives doing this? Wow. At this point I was almost crying but trying to keep it together.

And then I was just kind of nodding like, yeah probably. And he was like, no, no, no, I don’t mean mean me. I am not suicidal. And I was thinking like, yeah, you say that. But I think it was very, very good that we spoke today

Speaker 1 (27m 10s): Big time. Did you hear from him? Did you hear from him after that?

Speaker 2 (27m 14s): No, I’ve never seen him again. So I really, really, wow. He is, he’s doing well. He did ask about like my schedule and all of that, but I, I’ve never seen him again. Well

Speaker 1 (27m 24s): It sounds like you really helped him. That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (27m 26s): It was. And it also shows like my favorite part of the job. It’s really that human connection and yeah, just being able to have someone go off on their own way again after being with me and just being so much happier.

Speaker 1 (27m 39s): I think if you’re just in this for the money, you’re not gonna do very well. But if you are in this to connect with people, you’re gonna do much better.

Speaker 2 (27m 49s): That’s, it’s my favorite thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27m 51s): Yeah. That’s, that’s my feeling. So how do you manage being in this line of work while dating or having a partner?

Speaker 2 (27m 59s): Well, dating it was a little bit <unk> I’m sure many girls have said, as soon as you mention it, everybody’s gonna be like, oh I wanna shoot a porn with you. And it’s like, okay, let’s get the lights. Do you know someone who can use a camera? And then they’re always like, oh I don’t know. So the dating was a little odd the first time I was on Tinder. Sure. I used my Christina name fortunately because I was on cam an hour later and someone’s like, oh I just saw you on Tinder. And I’m like, okay, that is new. And I’ve had many guys who I would like share my number with or maybe I even met up with that then would send me like a link from porn.

I’d be like, oh I found you here. And I’m like, oh Jesus, now I never wanna talk to you again because the way that you approach me, like you can approach me in a normal way about this. Right. But my boyfriend actually, he is been very open-minded from the start. Good. And he knew what I was doing as well. So if he at some point felt like this was not something he would be okay with, he had a lot of time before we really got serious to figure that out. Sure. And I think what also helps is that it is just through a screen, you know?

And even though you have that human connection. Yeah. The way he says it, again, it’s in touch <unk> which kind of translates to nobody else gets to touch the cake. Like they can look at it. He likes to show me off. He sure. Even in just daily life, he loves to show me off. He loves when people are looking at me as long as nobody else gets to touch it. For

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): Sure. And and the other, the other, the other part of it is this, you live in Holland, prostitution’s Legal in Amsterdam. I would imagine. I mean, I mean I’ll just ask you how does that impact your views, your boyfriend’s views and everyone’s views there on sex work?

Speaker 2 (29m 49s): Well, I actually have a lot of friends who are some work in at light district, some work as an escort, some work for like clubs. So for me, for me it was even also kind of new at the beginning because even though I was doing sex work Right, I still, because we have a lot of like, I guess propaganda regarding their ad light district where a lot of, all of the media image that you get is, yeah. But these girls are forced highest class escorts. They do it voluntarily, but the girls in Nuendo, they don’t. So even though I was doing sex work for multiple years, I still had that image until I actually met with people.

And for example, they say like, oh the Eastern European girls, they’re, they’re so, they’re such victims. And it’s like, have you ever spoken to an eastern European girl because they will will fuck you up if you play with them wrong. You know? Yeah. And I actually did, they used to have, a woman used to have like an, like a workshop working in the windows. Right. And I always kind of thought like, oh maybe that will be kind of fun. So I did that workshop many years ago and only when you’re actually standing in that window you notice how much power you actually do have.

Cuz you see everybody before they see you. If you don’t want someone to see you, you can immediately walk away. So I didn’t have any clients, he just showed me like basically how the interaction worked. Every time a client would come up she would like shove them away. But it was really powerful in a sense cuz you would expect to feel more exposed. But it’s, it really isn’t. So I did always kind of like play with the idea of working maybe in the windows or something like that. But cause I was working that legal job and caming on the side, it wasn’t, I just didn’t have the time.

And then I know some girls who work there and we were kind of making the same amount of money and because I do have a lot of hermit tendencies, I was like, well if I’m not gonna make more money then I’m just gonna stay at my house. Oh

Speaker 1 (31m 41s): Yeah. No, most definitely. Most, most definitely. And it’s, that’s for my boyfriend’s not the easiest work. Sorry. No, not the easiest work in the world either.

Speaker 2 (31m 50s): No, actually I think it’s, funnily enough, I think it’s very similar to camming because imagine that. Yeah. Which you have like your own standing in a window kind of felt like being in free chat and then you have to entice people to come in. Sure. And like the whole kind of like the hustle aspect of it felt kind of similar. I think those two lines of sex work are actually more similar than any other two Interesting. That I can think of. And so when I met my boyfriend, I actually told him I’m a sex worker, but so he thought already that I was doing prostitution.

So in his head after our first date, he was thinking like, okay, can I be okay with someone who does sex work? And he, cuz he’s also a very analytical person, he decided that he could be. But then on our second date he found out that I do camming. And for him that was kind of a relief. Like okay. Yeah. So then, but also it was like, and I, I don’t wanna sound again like homophobic or something, obviously I’m not, but it is and I can understand that, you know, like I also, I like to be shared, but I wouldn’t like to share.

Speaker 1 (32m 52s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32m 53s): I wouldn’t want other people to touch my cake eater, you know?

Speaker 1 (32m 58s): Indeed. It’s an interesting dynamic down there for sure. For anyone who’s been down there, they know for anyone who hasn’t, they should definitely take a look cuz there’s no like it. So

Speaker 2 (33m 13s): No, it really isn’t. And I should really advise people to come by quickly because the municipality of Amsterdam is actually trying to shut it down. Yeah. So I always, people’s

Speaker 1 (33m 22s): It’s already been reduced greatly.

Speaker 2 (33m 24s): Absolutely. Yeah. There used to be like almost 500 windows and now there’s only I believe like two 50 or something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33m 31s): So I,

Speaker 2 (33m 32s): So yeah, it’s kind of a shame really. And even though people have been here, they still often have this idea of like, oh yeah, other girls are traffics or victims and it really almost could not be farther from the truth. They really don’t understand how it works.

Speaker 1 (33m 45s): Well the whole trafficking thing is being overblown internationally, but that’s, yeah, that’s a whole other side, especially in the United States. But don’t, don’t get me started. Yeah, we

Speaker 2 (33m 57s): Could fill a podcast on that.

Speaker 1 (33m 59s): I talked many times about that. So have you ever considered shooting porn?

Speaker 2 (34m 6s): I have. And I already, like years ago I would have like pretty well known names like shooting my dms, like hey what you wanna shoot together? But because I am here and most of the people are in the states, my response usually would just be like, yeah, but I’m over here so I guess that’s not really gonna work out. Cuz I was more interested back then. And then sometimes they would be like, oh yeah but I’ll be in Germany then and then, or I’ll be in the UK then and then maybe either I can fly out or I can fly you out. And, but clearly there was a part of me that didn’t really want to necessarily because I’ve never really pursued it, even though I could have, and I even never even shot, well we shot like personal home videos, but with my boyfriend, I don’t know.

And at at this point, I don’t know if I still want to do it. I think I do need more videos with at least a dick in my face because it really brings out my features nicely. And I think a lot of my guys would also like it. But I think also because I do cam and it’s very much that personal interaction, I don’t know if for a lot of people would also ruin the fantasy. That’s

Speaker 1 (35m 11s): Good point. Good point.

Speaker 2 (35m 12s): So I dunno, I think I might at some points with my partner and there’s definitely some girls in the States where I’m like, ooh, if I got a, a chance to shoot with her, I would love to like Lena Paul for example, she is smoking hot but I don’t know if she likes big girls. But you know, like there’s definitely some people on my list where I’m like, if I would get the chance I will jump on it. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (35m 35s): Definitely.

Speaker 2 (35m 36s): But it’s not something literally I’m actively, literally, but it’s not something I’m actively pursuing.

Speaker 1 (35m 43s): Okay. How do you feel the normalization of sex work with only fans? Making it more mainstream is a good thing.

Speaker 2 (35m 55s): I think, again, let yes and no. I find it really hard to answer questions like that in a just yes or like black and white answer. Because again, I started when I was 19 so I started very young as well. But I think because I started so young, I also know that it probably isn’t for everybody to start that young. Oh yeah. And I think it really, the normalization of it is I don’t hate it. It’s nice that people know a little bit more. Like if you say I do this, people now kind of have an idea of what you do and like you don’t have to always explain it to them.

Sure. And I think it has caused a lot of people to be more open and a lot more sex worker. Positive and friendly. Yes. But I also think that it led to a lot of people jumping into it, especially young girls who didn’t really know what they were getting into. Like I have seen really young girls like literally making an only fence as soon as they turn 18 or like being like, oh I can’t wait until I can start one. And it’s like, I don’t think that that is something that’s necessarily good.

It it, it’s not necessarily bad either, but Sure. I don’t know. I think it’s very good just for your own development to have had other jobs as well. You know, I’ve had many jobs before I started this, especially if you do start making a lot of money because it can kind of screw screw with your sense of what’s normal. I sometimes ask my boyfriend like, what do normal people make in a month? Like what is a normal salary? Right. Because, because I’ve been in this so long that I don’t know what is Yeah. What, what do normal people live with?

I don’t

Speaker 1 (37m 31s): Know. That’s a real nice, that’s a real wonderful question to have to have Christina

Speaker 2 (37m 36s): That is that Sure. It’s very privileged. I am very aware of that. But it’s also, I think, I dunno, everything of course has good and bad sides. So

Speaker 1 (37m 46s): Well and well, and the, and the other thing is I don’t think that these people that are making unbelievable money on only fans realize how lucky they are and they also don’t realize it could go away in a minute.

Speaker 2 (37m 60s): Yeah, exactly. And I, I don’t know, I do feel, again, I don’t wanna be like hypocritical because I really did start so young as well. I do think that sometimes people don’t necessarily think about all of the consequences. Yes.

Speaker 1 (38m 19s): No they,

Speaker 2 (38m 19s): They don’t but think. But that’s the same if you’re 25, 30 or 19 for some people. I think indeed a lot of people did very good starting that young, so. Sure,

Speaker 1 (38m 28s): Sure. It

Speaker 2 (38m 29s): Really, it’s nuanced.

Speaker 1 (38m 31s): Yeah. It, it depends on the person. It

Speaker 2 (38m 33s): Really does.

Speaker 1 (38m 34s): So what was it like, like winning an expo’s award?

Speaker 2 (38m 37s): Amazing. I didn’t unexpectedly unexpected. I immediately lose my words. I really didn’t expect it. I’ve seen a lot about those awards of course over the years, but it always seemed very America focused. I never really saw a lot of European girls or something like that win, I’m sure here and there. And I never really even looked into how those things work. But then last year I saw something about the pre nominations and I was like, you know what, let me just try see if we can get nominated. Right. So I did and then I got nominated and I was like, oh, what the fuck.

I didn’t really expect that to happen because, and like I, social media is not my jam. I never been a social media person. I refreshing like it, I don’t like it when social media was coming up, I was just smoking weed with the homies in the park. Like it was never my thing. But since, I guess also like early 2021, I was like, okay, because I knew for years that I really need to get into this. But I was so again assistant just like with that Harry marketing, I was like, I just don’t wanna do it.

I was like, okay, I need to. So I only had like, I don’t know, maybe three or 4,000 Twitter followers, which is not a lot compared to a lot of the other girls that were nominated. Right. And just in general compared to people online. So I was surprised to even be nominated and then, you know, then the whole other process start, people have to vote and all of that kind of stuff. And I kind of just promoted it everywhere. I mentioned it on my cam shows and I was on there for like good, good seven years at a time. And I guess a lot of people really do fuck with me.

At some point I was like, Ooh, maybe I actually have a shot. Cause people were telling me they were voting. But then I look at some of the other girls and they had like millions of followers on Instagram and I literally just threw my phone away like, ah, this shit is never gonna happen. And then it actually did. And I, I, I was in shock. I don’t know what else to say. Yeah, my, that’s, my mom was proud of me. I

Speaker 1 (40m 35s): Bet.

Speaker 2 (40m 36s): Yeah, she, she said that she happened to wake up at her high time because she called me, but I think that she actually just stayed up really late just like I did to see if I would win. Oh,

Speaker 1 (40m 45s): That’s

Speaker 2 (40m 46s): Sweet. Yeah, she was really sweet. It, it was kind of mind blowing. Really. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40m 50s): That’s fantastic. Yeah. So what’s your biggest challenge working in this industry?

Speaker 2 (40m 55s): Marketing and the, yeah, you mentioned that and, and the social media. And again, I think it’s also because I really do have these hermits tendencies where I really do love talking to people in ST is one of my favorite things. Meeting new people is one of my favorite things. But that is like, again, like the instance talking thing, right? So like what we’re doing now, but when you do it like on the social media, then I have time to think and then you have to word it right because you have like a word limits. As soon as I have time to think, that’s generally where I get stuck a little bit because I can be an overthinker.

So I either have to do something immediately. Right. Or it’s, it’s really hard for me to get to it. Yeah. So absolutely that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41m 41s): Okay. Christina, where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (41m 44s): Everywhere? They can find me@bigbellybitch.com. Which leads you to my only fans, christina cams.com, which leads you to my CAM profile. And on social media, I am at Tina Castilla, C A S T A L I A, and I believe I have a link tree@christinacastilla.com where they can find all of that. And I do have a website in the in the works, which will also be@christinacastilla.com.

Speaker 1 (42m 19s): Christina, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we get a chance to do this again real soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 27s): I would love that. Thank you so much for having me. I had a great time. Thank

Speaker 1 (42m 31s): You. My broker tip today is part eight of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about information needed to give the buyer and being transparent with the buyer. Here’s more information on what to give a potential buyer. How well has your content been protected from piracy? And what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy, takedown, or monitoring service? These are important facts to know.

What promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates? The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be. What is your traffic breakdown by country? Tier one, countries like the usa, Canada, the uk, Germany, and Australia are the most preferred. Add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of, such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site? Do you use billing or affiliate software like Nats?

What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have a day? Do you buy advertising and of so much kind? Can your content make more money in the D V D or V O D markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this? How much did you spend to produce or buy the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth? Now we’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Julie from Primetime Cams.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Christina Castalia. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Chris Jeffrey of Saucy Time. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker three point 0 at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASBcash.com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer an amazing opportunity. If you’re in the live cam, model management or fan site space, or want to get into them, we have a private listing that may be just right for you. This company works with all major CAM sites and has access to hundreds of US-based models.

We’re offering very limited information at the seller’s request. In order to maintain privacy, we anticipate multiple offers for this very rare listing. For more information, contact us@adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Chris Jeffrey of Saucy Time. Chris, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 15s): It’s a pleasure, Bruce. Thanks for the invitation.

Speaker 1 (2m 18s): It’s nice to have you. Now Chris is a 46 year old entrepreneur, father of seven year old daughter Ella. He lives with his wife and business partner in Southeast Asia. Chris launched and operates the only 100% mobile adult web app saucy time with his wife and business partner. Following successful careers in the city. They realized life was too short and embarked upon a new chapter in their lives, deciding that London was not the best place to raise a child. So they moved out to Southeast Asia.

In addition to a decade running a hedge fund, Chris has been involved in other projects, including the development of Android TV set top boxes, the development of 180 degree virtual reality streaming webcam platform among, among other ventures. Chris is also executive director of the VR guys, a virtual reality software development company. Sasi Time is the first and only webcam platform, specifically designed for mobile use launched in 2012.

It has over 180,000 members and features around a hundred models, originally only available for Apple devices. Their platform now also supports Android sasi. Time is one of the most competitive platforms on the market. Recruitment is via invitation and referral only. So Chris, why don’t you tell us a bit about your background in the adult industry.

Speaker 2 (3m 42s): It was pretty limited. You, you, you, during your introduction, you mentioned that I ran a hedge fund. Yeah, I, I actually recruited for hedge funds. Just to, just to be clear. Oh, so my, my role, yeah. My role was, was, was this a recruitment consultant, finding guys to work for hedge funds. I think if I had my own hedge fund, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. This is true. My experience was, was pretty much limited to lurking the streets of soho three in London, right.

At sort of 3:00 AM you know, perusing the, the shelves of the adult video stores that existed back then. Dunno if you’ve ever been to London or at that time. Yeah. But you remember the video stores legally, they weren’t allowed to call themselves adult video stores. It was a video store, and then you had this sort of Aladdin’s cave at the back with, you know, colorful sort of, you know, paper drapes.

And, you know, you’d sneak in through there and, and that’s where you’d find all of the latest vhs, all of the latest VHS videos. So, yeah, you know, and funnily enough, I remember going into these stores and on unsuccessful nights back in the, back in the nineties and sliding sort of 20 quid over after a little bit of time, making a decision about what my viewing pleasure was gonna be for, for that evening.

In solitude. In solitude. And wondering, you know, had this guy end up getting this job, you know, he’s peddling, you know, peddling, peddling porn. And, you know, we are 30 years later, I’m the sort of modern version of that guy. So I worked in the city as I, as I mentioned, you know, I, I had no, no real interest to be perfectly honest. Beyond that, you know, like anybody else, I, I didn’t have an unhealthy interest in, in, in pornography.

That wasn’t, that wasn’t what drove me into the industry. It was completely, it was completely by acc. Hmm. In completely by accident. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (6m 20s): So how did saucy time get started?

Speaker 2 (6m 22s): I saw an opportunity, I suppose, I think, you know, the webcam industry had already been in existence for a decade or so, streaming, you know, streaming video websites and, and so on. And it seemed like a fairly sort of closed shop. And I’m sure a lot of these companies hugely successful, much more successful, I’m sure you know, than, than than we are. You know,

Speaker 1 (6m 52s): There are big ones. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (6m 53s): Yeah. Millions of millions of members sort of occurred to me that the direction the entertainment itself was heading was into mobile, the iPhone. I remember seeing the iPhone for the first time and hearing about this thing called FaceTime. Didn’t, wasn’t sure if it would take off or not until my wife, now wife showed me a call that she was having with her brother. You know, as the pickup started, you know, people started to, to buy iPhones and I was just blown away by this like, mobile to mobile connection.

Yeah. You didn’t need your phone number, you could do it via an email address. You know, the quality was amazing. Yeah. And yeah, it did. It sort of, it stuck in my head and like any business ideas or at least yeah. Those that are made on the back of a beer map, you know, I was having a pin with a, a friend of mine, as I mentioned, I ran a technology recruitment consultancy for hedge funds. So, you know, I had access to the best and brightest technologists, you know, and a lot of these guys that I’d found jobs for I became friends with, you know, and I’d regularly meet them out for, for drinks.

But my friend told me the iPad two was coming out and that it was due to our FaceTime. And I thought, apple is serious about this. Right? It’s not a feature that’s gonna go away, that they’re, you know, they’re putting their weight behind it. So is there a way that we could take this concept of mobile to mobile and apply it in webcam setting, you know, is that gonna be possible?

So I got on the phone to another friend of mine who is, you know, he’s a ex Microsoft genius who was in his twenties at the time, and he was a director. And I said to him, look, I’ve had this idea, I’ve already run it past this one friend of mine. But as you know, obviously different people have different roles and different skill sets and technology. So Will was the guy who I thought, okay, he’s gonna be able to answer these questions.

So I said, look, if I take you and a few of your guys out for, for beers, could you give me an hour of your time? You know, could we, I, I’ve had an idea for a business and I just wanna run it past you.

Speaker 1 (9m 32s): It’s amazing what beers will buy.

Speaker 2 (9m 35s): It’s incredible, isn’t it? It’s incredible. We all got together in, this is funny, you know, I went over to their head office, this blue chip won’t mentioned the company name, but was a, a blue chip company household name, and this guy is the technical director or director of the particular group. And he pulls a few couple of guys into the boardroom and he’s got, you know, the whiteboard up there and process flow diagrams.

And he’s like, you know, go and grab, you know, the database guys, the database guy comes in and all of a sudden for the price of a few beers, you know, I’ve got this sort of group of very highly skilled and experienced tech guys explaining how they can make my idea work. You know, how, how, how it could, how it could be put together. That was it, you know, it was, it was seeing FaceTime for the first time.

It was realizing that Apple had a fantastic video streaming platform that was only gonna get better. The only that, you know, you know, that was only get better, right? They’re gonna continue investing in it. So it is always gonna be the best on the market. And if it was possible to piggyback onto that, this was a potentially feasible business opportunity.

Speaker 1 (11m 11s): Sure. So with no background in the industry, no name or established brand, how did you go about recruiting models

Speaker 2 (11m 19s): At that time? Twitter was, was a different place. And there, there were two things really. There was Twitter and there was bribery because first of all, the iPad too had only just come out and had a, a friend of mine who happened to work for Apple, not on the retail side, but he worked for Apple, and the iPad too is just about to be released. And this was at the time when you’d get cues of people outside the store, you know?

Sure. Really excited about.

Speaker 1 (11m 55s): They still do,

Speaker 2 (11m 57s): Do they, do they still do that? Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I’m surprised because the innovation seems to have slowed a little bit. You know, I, I don’t

Speaker 1 (12m 10s): Still got your Apple fan fanboy. I, I’m, I hate to say it, but I’m kind of one too. So

Speaker 2 (12m 15s): You’re not in a tent the night before though, are you?

Speaker 1 (12m 19s): Oh, hell no. I’m not nuts, but I have, but I have been in a line before, let’s put it that way.

Speaker 2 (12m 27s): Okay. Okay. You’re running out of the store, you know, brandishing you and new your new purchase.

Speaker 1 (12m 33s): No, I just rem I just remember when the iPhone 12 came out, I, I had to stand in line to pay them. That’s the only line I’ve stood in, which kind of bugged me. But anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (12m 44s): I spoke to my friend at Apple. I said, look, I need to get hold of these ipo, you know, iPad twos, how am I going to, can you get me one on the day? You know, well, I need a bit more than one. He’s like, well, how many do you need? I said, well, kind of 10. And he said, you know that they’re gonna sell out just on the day. He said, but if you’re a business customer of Apples, you just register as a business with Apple, then you can pre-order,

Speaker 1 (13m 15s): Right?

Speaker 2 (13m 16s): Yeah. You can pre-order your, your devices unlimited number registered with Apple as a business place. The order, I should mention, at this point, the, the funding for the project sort of was partly due to my wife’s belief in the product, in, in the idea, because obviously, you know, 10 iPads are not cheap.

Sure. But yeah, she put those on her credit card. So we’ve got 10 iPads. So then it was a case of, okay, let’s go on to Twitter and let’s start talking to these girls and see if they’d be interested in joining our startup. Not guaranteeing them huge amounts of business, but they get a free iPad, you know, if they stay with us for a certain amount of time, you know, cool.

I mean, not, you know, you get one and run. We, we made sort of connections and made real life connections as well, because obviously being in London, we’d meet up with my wife, tell the girls about the idea, get a few of the girls together, and it became like this nice sort of community of, you know, 10 girls, some of them, some of which are still with us, actually. Yeah. Hopefully not working with the same iPad, but just because we had an adult business, I wanted to treat it like any other business and recruitment Sure.

Was, was part of that, you

Speaker 1 (14m 57s): Know. Well, you certainly knew recruitment, right?

Speaker 2 (14m 59s): I didn’t see why it should be any different. No. And all of the other web, all of the other webcam sites seemed to be registered here to become a model. Now, just because you own a webcam doesn’t necessarily mean that you are a webcam model, right. I mean, I suppose in principle, sorry, in in, yeah, in theory it does, but not really. I mean, you know, we were, we were looking for published models when, you know, publishing was a thing and we had a, a bit of a partnership with Loaded, and that gave us a name to piggyback off, you know, very good.

We had a partnership with this men’s magazine, and we did a deal with them where we do a shoot, we provide the girls. That’s how we managed to get the talent. But we’re running a 24 hour operation. Sure. Now the notifications for the bookings are delivered via sms. So these, I mean, these girls were fantastic. So they’d sleep with their phones in their brass, so to cover the, to cover the US market with their phone number vibrate if they got a booking, because, you know, bookings were few and far between in the beginning.

Right. Then they’d get an alert, quickly, send a text message, Joe, just give me a second, honey, as they wake up at four in the morning. And they’d do, and they’d do, and they do recall, and it was thanks to them and their hard work, the business actually managed to, to take off because there were girls online, you know? Yeah. And sure. Cause I think we’d given, there was good faith there because obviously we’d trusted them with a 500 pound device, you know?

Yeah,

Speaker 1 (16m 51s): Yeah. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (16m 53s): It was reciprocated. And as I say, some of those, some of those girls are still with us

Speaker 1 (16m 58s): Now. Great. So in your experience, how have customer preferences changed during the last decade and how have you adjusted?

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): If we go back further than a, you know, even further than a decade, I can only talk from my personal experience. We’re, we’re in, we’re we’re there or thereabouts, in terms of generation, you’ll, you’ll get what I’m talking about. But we had a Sure, a newspaper in the UK called The Sun, and we also had one called Daily Start, like a tab, you know, like a red top tabloid

Speaker 1 (17m 35s): Newspaper. Big time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17m 37s): And at the time before everybody got so bloody serious, used to have page three girls, my friend’s dad was a reader of, was a reader of the daily start. So I’d nip over to my friend’s house just to leave through the back editions of page seven. And, you know, that was, that was our kind of pornography of, of the time.

Then obviously as you get a bit older, it escalated to magazines. Yeah. Right. And then to vhs. And there was a nice sort of, you know, storyline. You know, the postman turns up and, you know, the, the housewife bends over and yeah. It’s just very, very corny now when you look, when you look back. But at the time, you know, it was, you’d sit there and watch it, you

Speaker 1 (18m 40s): Know, hasn’t changed that much.

Speaker 2 (18m 42s): It’s gonna happen next, but hasn’t it, because I mean, I, I’m not porn,

Speaker 1 (18m 46s): Porn hasn’t, I mean, I, there’s still, there’s still a lot of the pizza guy and the, and the pool guy. And I always, I always joke when our pool guy gets here, I said, here’s the, the most famous porn actor in the world.

Speaker 2 (18m 59s): I was under the misapprehension that porn had changed from those sort of storylines very much in the same way as, you know, TikTok and YouTube shorts to just being, you know, somewhat

Speaker 1 (19m 15s): Banned. Yeah. Somewhat, but somewhat, but not completely.

Speaker 2 (19m 19s): Okay. Okay. So in terms of how consumer tastes have developed, I think, you know, people have seems to have done a little bit of a 180 because, you know, people wanted more and more and more and more, but then decided, maybe got to a point where they realized that, you know, gynecology wasn’t for them. And, and actually they preferred something a little, a little more that had a little of, you know, the illusion of romance or some sexual attraction.

You could be the postman type, you know, or the poor guy, Bruce’s, Bruce’s poor guy. You know, one can only dream, right. But in order to compete, the porn industry seemed to be releasing more and more and more graphic and misogynistic sort of, you know, pour true. And I think tastes have now shifted away from that a little bit because

Speaker 1 (20m 25s): The Me Too era. Sure.

Speaker 2 (20m 27s): Yeah. That, that also, I think that guys now want to feel that there is a connection between them and the performer. And whilst I felt there was a connection between myself and, you know, a black and white photo of Samantha Fox, famous page three girl. Yeah. 30 or 40 years ago, my wasn’t, I wasn’t seven.

Speaker 1 (20m 55s): You sure?

Speaker 2 (20m 56s): Maybe they felt a connection between them and, and the performer. I guess that’s, you know, your, your POV type thing and why that’s we want our customers to feel a connection with the performer. Yeah. You know, a lot of webcam that some of them may make is that they think that, you know, the guys are only interested in seeing their bits, you know, that, that, that’s it.

Speaker 1 (21m 26s): Another British term I’m gonna steal They’re bits

Speaker 2 (21m 31s): And they’re naughty bits. Yeah. They’re naughty bits. Got it. So, yeah. So to in order, you know, to, to get that sort of dopamine dump, you know, like that first kiss, if you meet somebody for the first time, you’re gonna first date, you know, the exciting bit is not necessarily the, the sex, right. It’s the anticipation. It’s the lead up to the sex, it’s the, you know, you know, sharing.

Speaker 1 (22m 1s): I think I, I think I remember, yeah,

Speaker 2 (22m 5s): It’s been a while for me as well, you know? Yep. I’ve been married a long time, but Sam, I

Speaker 1 (22m 10s): Saw you sent me a, sent me a picture of you and your lovely wife, and Yes, I can understand.

Speaker 2 (22m 15s): Yeah. Not, not for any untoward reasons, though. That’s not my

Speaker 1 (22m 20s): Scene. No. She was clothed.

Speaker 2 (22m 22s): The excitement is the lead up, you know, is she, isn’t she? But you know, the kiss, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22m 30s): It’s like, like a, like a virtual, like a virtual girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (22m 33s): Right. That is exactly what we wanted to create, emulate, you know? Right. Is not okay, you know, I need to see a vagina. It’s, I’ve got a shitty day, you know, my friends are all out with their girlfriends or whatever. Right. You know, I wanna get home from work, I wanna pour myself a glass of wine and I’m gonna see who’s available on s time, or I

Speaker 1 (23m 2s): Know, or I’m gonna, or I’m going to talk to Stacy because that’s, that’s the one that I like. Right?

Speaker 2 (23m 9s): Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. If I know that she Stacy’s available, I’m gonna talk to Stacy. Yeah. We’re gonna have a chat and it, and it may not even result in, and this is again, one of the things that I, that surprised me, I think, was that a lot of the time it is just that it is

Speaker 1 (23m 28s): Just, yeah. It’s just a conversation. It’s not necessarily leading to the guy, to the guy jerking off. I, I get it. No. Yeah. So from what I understand, you operate a flat rate for all models. Now, does this not include performers that operate at a higher rate?

Speaker 2 (23m 47s): The value that a performer puts upon themselves is really sort of based upon what people are prepared to pay. Sure. Now, a lot of these models have been on tv, they’ve been in magazines, and they have hardcore fans, and those hardcore fans are prepared to pay 10, 15, $20. You know, the whole sort of, you know, cash cow type movement.

That’s why it exists. It’s because, you know, these guys get, yeah, these guys get sort of semi obsessed with, with these models. But I’m sorry, that doesn’t mean that that’s what Joe Blogs who’s never heard of you, is going to be prepared to pay. This

Speaker 1 (24m 41s): Is

Speaker 2 (24m 41s): True. To listen to you speak, you know, you are not, you are not Warren Buffett, you know, it’s like,

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): And I quite, quite frankly, I wouldn’t wanna see him naked, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (24m 53s): I don’t, if he was paying me, I’d do it,

Speaker 1 (24m 56s): It would have to be a lot.

Speaker 2 (24m 60s): Now, I’d undercut your rate, I’d undercut your rate, no problem at all. Watching Warren Buffett get naked. But no, I mean, there is, you know, this is somebody whose time is really valuable and you know, he has his very same as motivational speakers, although I’m not a big fan of that industry, but, you know, celebrities. Celebrities, let’s say for instance, right? So that’s a great example. So celebrities just one big brother.

Yeah. Market val, you know, market rate per hour is x, you know, thousand pounds, you know, big rider, thousand pounds an hour, you know, big rider, big name, blah, blah, blah. Same as the influencers, you know, they all have their value, but when it comes to camming, if there aren’t really any sort of household camgirl names, really, you know, it’s, it’s a very, very large,

Speaker 1 (26m 2s): So you’ve got your, you’ve got your more successful ones, but you’re probably right.

Speaker 2 (26m 6s): Yeah, of course. But it’s not like, you know, your Jenna Jameson, you know, of the webcam industry. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 13s): Agreed.

Speaker 2 (26m 14s): So what, what I tell, you know, what I tell these girls is look, when we explain our rate structure to them, I mean, they get paid the man. Do you think that we’re providing a charitable service here? We spending, you know, thousands of pounds on advertising and marketing and driving new business to our site so we can pay you a hundred percent of the call value? Of course not. Right? You know, it’s a, a business and we have costs that we need to meet.

How many of these five pound per minute bookings do you get in an hour? Oh, well, you know, I’ll get maybe, yeah, yeah. Maybe one an hour. How long? Five minutes. Something like that. Sure. Okay. So in the hour you are basically being paid $25, is that right? Yeah. Right. Okay. How about you worked the full hour and you got paid 60 pounds, 70 pounds, you know, whatever.

But that’s how we tackle that is

Speaker 1 (27m 22s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (27m 23s): Is the, you know, it’s the elasticity, I suppose.

Speaker 1 (27m 26s): So people, so people book the models by the hour?

Speaker 2 (27m 29s): Not, not, some do, some do, but mostly by the minute. The pattern normally is when we bring a new model into the site, she’ll, the people that haven’t been with us for a while will book the minimum amount of time possible, which is 10 pounds. So for that 10 pounds, they’ll get a five minute, a five minute call. And then they’ll, because they wanna make sure that this isn’t a photo that was taken 1986.

Right. Imagine

Speaker 1 (28m 4s): That.

Speaker 2 (28m 5s): Yeah. Like that ever happens. There’s like dating profiles. Right,

Speaker 1 (28m 10s): Exactly.

Speaker 2 (28m 11s): So they wanna make sure that this, this is the same person, this is the right person. And also that they’re gonna get along. Most of our girls are English, well, they’re all English speaking native English speakers or, or fluent English speakers. But, you know, there are other sites that employ girls from different areas and perhaps, you know, the humor isn’t the same. They don’t have the same common interest. Don’t watch the same course soap operas, you know, don’t listen to the same music, that sort of thing.

So five minutes is enough, you know, for for them, got for them, you know, you understand, understand. Yeah. Von Yeah. Okay. Thank, thank you for your time with our girls. They will book longer calls, but they also sort of sometimes overestimate their staying power as it means. Sure. They’ll, they’ll book a 20 minute call and Yeah, maybe it won’t last the full 20 minutes because somebody’s had an, somebody’s had ano had a whoopi.

There’s another English term, another English term for you. Somebody’s had that a, a little, little slip.

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): You don’t offer tipping. Is there a reason for that?

Speaker 2 (29m 32s): Yes, because, and, and again, it goes back to the human connection. You know, it’s like being in on Harvey Nick’s fifth floor and realizing that the girl that you’ve been talking to for the last hour, that’s shown, that’s laughed at all your jokes and is stunning, likes nice things, and maybe wants a present, you know? And then you realize it, it all becomes about money and then it spoil and then it spoils it all.

Right. And

Speaker 1 (30m 8s): Yes, it’s a good point. But that is what it’s all about to the models.

Speaker 2 (30m 12s): Well, it is, and it isn’t because they want to enjoy their job.

Speaker 1 (30m 16s): Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (30m 17s): You know, and it’s like, they’re not, they’re not performing animals at a circus, you know? True. These are like anybody, you know, you’ve got a shitty boss or you’ve got shitty coworkers or shitty customers, you’re not gonna enjoy what you do. Sure. But if you are in an environment where the customers are, are nice to you, they’re interested in you in reverse, you know, that mutual sort of respect and interested, if that’s reciprocated, and again, you know, it comes back to the personality of the performer, you know, they need to be engaging and it’s not about, you know, you gotta be engaging because we’ve gotta bleed this customer dry.

Doesn’t matter, it’s a five minute call. As long as it’s the best five minutes of that guy’s day, we’ve done our job, you know? Oh, sure. And if she’s good at her job, then he’s going to divert some of his disposable income away from, you know, video games or, you know, going to the pub into spending a little bit of time with her.

Sure. He understands that she’s being paid for it. But unlike, unlike Skype, which is very much, you know, talking to granny and granddad in Australia, that’s not very sexy for me. What, you know, for me, you know, being at the family PC and trying to position the wobbly webcam and you know, dropping your trousers and it’s like the old joke, what’s the most sensitive part of your body when you are masturbating your ears, being at the, the sort of family PC where you pay your bills and then, you know, streaming into a live chat and all this sort of, it’s not, that’s not a very personal thing, but when was that time you used FaceTime for business?

When was this last time you used FaceTime for anything other than talking to people that you want to talk to? It’s your phone. Sure. It’s locked away. There’s no web history, you know, there’s nothing to disguise. People don’t share their phones. Yeah. And the, the girls are encouraged and, and will send a text message on a Thursday afternoon and say, you know, hey, you know, hey Billy, did you get the promotion you were talking about?

You told me about last week. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Part of that is a sales call, but part of that is a sales pitch, I suppose. But part of it is also, you know, you remembered that this guy had a promotion, you probably wanted him to get it, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33m 20s): Exactly.

Speaker 2 (33m 21s): And that’s the, that’s the disconnect.

Speaker 1 (33m 23s): It makes ’em, it makes ’em at least feel that they care.

Speaker 2 (33m 25s): But yeah, I mean, you you say feel that they care, but I do think that they, they in, in some cases, and it varies from girl to girl, and it’s probably the reason why course we only have a hundred girls in a thousand girls is because the girls that we have, we’ve chosen very, very carefully. Yes. We’ve taken time to make sure that, you know, they’re not, you know, these man hating, you know, you are my cash pig, want do an, I wanna do an ATM meat, you know?

Yeah. Sort of daddy issues type, you know, type background are not just in it for the money because Right. That’s not, you know, that’s not what it’s about. Give the guy a few extra minutes, you know? Sure. When the, when the five minutes is up, don’t end the call. Don’t hang up on him. Right. You know, tell him he’s running out of time. Maybe he’ll stick another few minutes or maybe he needs another couple of minutes. Give him another couple of minutes, you know, there’s no skin off your nose, he’ll come back to you.

It will pay off.

Speaker 1 (34m 33s): You know, it’s nice to see, it’s nice to see a company have that attitude. Because I, I know that your competitors don’t, what do you think makes for a successful cam model?

Speaker 2 (34m 46s): Well, I think that depends upon the platform for the big sites. Obviously it’s gonna be, you know, big social media presence, you know, endorsement, marketing, expose, you know, that, that, that’s I suppose on that level, how you would determine success. You know, being very, very sort of, very visible, very profitable. What makes a good one?

It’s really simple. I’m sure you’re familiar with the term, although again, it’s another English term banter.

Speaker 1 (35m 27s): Love it. What is it?

Speaker 2 (35m 28s): Banter.

Speaker 1 (35m 29s): Oh yeah, no, that’s, that’s actually used in the US too. That’s good.

Speaker 2 (35m 32s): Yeah. Yeah. You, you got there a bit late then. We’ve been, we’ve been saying, we’ve been been saying it longer than you. We invented it.

Speaker 1 (35m 39s): You’ve been saying everything longer than us.

Speaker 2 (35m 41s): That’s true. That’s true.

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): I, but I, but I often joke that I talk to someone from the uk I say, speak English.

Speaker 2 (35m 53s): Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (35m 55s): Well, and, and I also, I also think personality, I mean, if you want my opinion, I think it’s personality which goes along with banter.

Speaker 2 (36m 2s): Exactly. Right. Yeah. That is, yeah. You know, banter encapsulates quite a broad range of characteristics. You know, it’s, it’s not about necessarily being the most quick witted Yeah. Banter as in Yeah. I mean, like a good salesperson, you know, has to not be, and I think there are differences between American salespeople and British salespeople. Oh sure. The, the American model.

I prefer cuz they’re like, right, let’s get down to business. What’s the bottom line? They wanna do business, you know, they wanna get things. Well,

Speaker 1 (36m 43s): You know what, I kind of, I kind of disagree with that because as someone, as someone who sold radio advertising for 21 years, and I’ve really always been in sales, you’re in sales when you have your own company. I’ve always believed in establishing relationships with the people. And I think if you establish rapport banter, if you will, and relationships with the people that you are dealing with, then you know, it makes you better.

Okay. And it, it makes the people, just like you talk about with the models, it makes people realize that you care. And I do care, you know, I always have, and I’ve never looked at somebody as just a dollar sign. I look at them as someone that I can help in some way. And I try to help people in my current business, an adult site broker, even if we don’t end up doing business, if I see something on their site that I think needs help, I’ll make a comment or I’ll suggest something.

And well, that also leads into our general consulting company if they need that much help. But at the same time, it’s all about helping. And if you’re helping then you’re gonna do business.

Speaker 2 (38m 0s): Well ask me how many podcasts I’ve been,

Speaker 1 (38m 5s): I know you said this was your first one.

Speaker 2 (38m 7s): One, right? Yours.

Speaker 1 (38m 9s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (38m 10s): How many people do I know that sell or broker adult website sales?

Speaker 1 (38m 18s): I don’t know. Probably me.

Speaker 2 (38m 21s): Just you? Yes. Why is, why is that? I’m not looking to sell my website

Speaker 1 (38m 26s): Yet.

Speaker 2 (38m 29s): This, oh my God. This is the long sell, isn’t it? I’ve course,

Speaker 1 (38m 34s): Of course it is. Come on, man. Why do you think I, why do you think I do this podcast? This? It’s, it’s a promotional vehicle.

Speaker 2 (38m 42s): It’s not, it’s a scam. You’re gonna just put I bet, I bet you’re not even recording this. It’s just going in the bin. You’re just gonna try

Speaker 1 (38m 48s): And you’re funny. Go ahead. It’s

Speaker 2 (38m 52s): The, it’s the long con, it’s the long corner fallen

Speaker 1 (38m 55s): Through it, whatever, whatever you say.

Speaker 2 (38m 58s): Yeah. Remember you’re on my, we’ll do a, you’ll be two weeks later, you’re gonna call me up and you’re gonna say, Hey, you know what? That you did fantastic on the podcast. We were number one on the Apple charts book. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (39m 12s): Right.

Speaker 2 (39m 13s): See it because you can’t see it because it’s, you know, adults. So, but I’ve got the figures and let’s do a follow up. And then Yeah. And then the next thing you know, you’re gonna come in, you’re gonna come in hard once you’ve got my, you once you got my complete trust.

Speaker 1 (39m 33s): Yeah. I never cut. No, I’m sure I never come in hard except in, in the bedroom, so, oh dear. So, so Chris, what do you feel are the biggest challenges faced by the cam industry today?

Speaker 2 (39m 46s): Probably gonna be deep fakes, maybe. I mean, we’re talking long-term here. Sure. You know, deep fakes, the sort of, you know, avatars. I mean, I don’t think you can ever Mark Zuckerberg would lead us to believe that, you know, we can recreate human relationships by having these, you know, smiley, happy dancing. Well,

Speaker 1 (40m 13s): He’s a bot. He’s a bot. He’s a bot. So he’s a good example.

Speaker 2 (40m 17s): He’s a robot. Yeah. He’s a strange guy. It’s weird that his avatar does look like him though. It’s like they created the avatar before they created him.

Speaker 1 (40m 29s): They did. You know,

Speaker 2 (40m 31s): Technology will never replace the human to human contact without the interference of, I wouldn’t say interference or enhancement of technology. So yeah. Potentially sort of deep fakes why talk to Jenner from Essex when you can design your perfect image of of a, of a woman.

Yeah. You know, or a man or whatever. And that’s, that’s something that I’d like to come onto actually before, yeah. Before we finish speaking. And there’s one thing that I, I really want to get across to you, but I’ll come to that. Okay. So you, you know, you’ve got deep fakes, you’ve got ai, you’ve got all of these technologies that, that are available. And I think they could potentially pose a threat to the webcam industry.

As I said, you know, if you can, if you can create, there’s an eighties video, I can’t remember the name of it, but where they, they did actually manage to create the perfect woman. Do you, do you remember the name of the film? No, no, it didn’t. No. Yeah, it was this, the 1980s. It was the ahead of its time, but they created on their computer

Speaker 1 (42m 0s): Ahead of my time.

Speaker 2 (42m 4s): It was the ahead of its time. Ah. Because they, they were using a computer in the eighties to design an AI model. An AI model. Which was Yeah. Which was pretty remarkable foresight or, or Locke. You’ve got this photorealistic image and because it’s an ai, it’s gonna know that you got, you know, your promotion was on Thursday, it’s gonna know when your birthday is.

You know, you are gonna get text messages saying, Hey, it’s kandy, I’m sending you a boob shot or something like this. And this could all be done by computers. Yeah. Doesn’t require any human interaction.

Speaker 1 (42m 51s): This is true.

Speaker 2 (42m 53s): So that would be my biggest fear. We star we, we looked at vr, we sort of touched, you mentioned that in the introduction. And we actually created a streaming platform for vr and it worked.

Speaker 1 (43m 14s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43m 15s): But despite what we believed, nobody was interested. They weren’t interested. They would rather use their phone and have a FaceTime call than be able to get a 180 degree. And we spent time, you know, just getting the, the aspect ratio. Correct.

Speaker 1 (43m 37s): Who wasn’t, who wasn’t interested, the model or the user,

Speaker 2 (43m 41s): The users. They were, they just, they just didn’t either. We didn’t know how to reach them. And I’m sure they’re out there. I’m sure there are lots of guys with vr, but VR didn’t really take off as I thought it would. You know, I I mean when I first

Speaker 1 (43m 55s): Not yet. You’re right, you’re

Speaker 2 (43m 56s): Right.

Speaker 1 (43m 56s): Experience. It’s been slow.

Speaker 2 (43m 58s): When I first experienced vr, I was just like, nobody’s gonna buy a PlayStation again, you know, compute computer software. Right. Or, or other game development for pc. You may as you may as well fire everyone and get them trained up on 3D modeling and virtual reality and these sorts of tools because this is madness. You know, like, I’m in the game, this is great. Yeah. Right. And I still don’t get it.

I still don’t get why people, I mean, you know, you’ve also got Facebook behind it, which is one of the biggest companies in the world and they can’t give the stuff away. Like nobody’s Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44m 42s): I think it has a lot to do with the hardware and how clunky it is. And quite frankly, I don’t like having to wear that headset to, to take in content. I’ve, I bought one and

Speaker 2 (44m 55s): Which one did you get? Oculus?

Speaker 1 (44m 57s): Yeah, the Oculus. I bought the Oculus. And I’ve, I’ve only used it a couple times. I, I just gotta tell you, it just doesn’t feel natural. And I think a lot of people are the same way and they just haven’t gotten enough hardware into people’s hands to get critical mass. And I think that’s the biggest problem with VR so far.

Speaker 2 (45m 20s): Sorry, when you say they haven’t got enough hardware, are you talking about processing power or are you talking about

Speaker 1 (45m 28s): No, no, I’m talking about the, I’m talking about the headsets. There’s just not enough in people’s hands yet. And if you compare that to how many people who have have phones, it isn’t even close. So to make something totally VR doesn’t make sense because there’s just not, to me, there’s not enough of a market for it. Now some pay sites have done well with vr. Yes. Some are doing extremely well. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 56s): Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (45m 57s): I don’t know if the same would, would carry over for Cams. It’s really difficult to tell. And you, like you said, your experience hasn’t been the best. So

Speaker 2 (46m 7s): The reason we didn’t push it out as aggressively as we would’ve liked to is because the actual camera hardware, the webcams weren’t up to scratch. You know, you’ve got, you’ve got problems when you are shooting VR video, right. So they’re either ridiculously expensive, you know, $6,000.

Speaker 1 (46m 33s): Yeah. That’s the other side of it. You’ve gotta get those in the hands of all the models and it becomes cost-prohibitive. Exactly. Because, because of the very tight profit margins.

Speaker 2 (46m 43s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (46m 44s): For Cams. Exactly. So that, that makes it even harder than the pay site. So I think it’s gonna be a long time before it’s there and the hardware costs are gonna have to come way down on both ends. And it’s just, I don’t know, I don’t see it anytime soon. So what did you say? The other challenge was

Speaker 2 (47m 2s): Also only fans as well?

Speaker 1 (47m 4s): Of course,

Speaker 2 (47m 5s): Of course only fans. I think, and this is another thing that I don’t get, you know, I don’t, I suppose, you know, we all base our opinions on our, our own sort of, you know, judgment calls. But just in the same way that, you know, if somebody told me three years ago that a company was gonna come along and they were basically going to charge customers to access videos of models and they were gonna pay a subscription for that, and a decent number of these girls were going to become millionaires within a day, I, I just wouldn’t have believed it.

Yep. Particularly as, yeah, I was just amazed at the number of, yeah, I suppose the number of people that would be prepared to pay to Yeah. To see pictures, which, you know, they could, they could find similar pictures on the internet, but they pay a sort of subscription. And I’m just, to be honest, I’m just really jealous that it wasn’t my idea.

Speaker 1 (48m 22s): Well, tell me about it. I I think there’s many people that feel that way. The bottom, the bottom line on it is there’s, there’s absolutely no end to what a virtual girlfriend will bring about to a man. And that’s what only fan, that’s the power of only fans and all the similar sites. So Chris, I’d once again like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (48m 50s): Yeah, it’s been a pleasure talking to you, Bruce. A really interesting

Speaker 1 (48m 55s): Chat. Pleasure is all mine. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about trademarking your site and ways to make it unique. Next, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspects of your operation that the potential buyers may wanna find out about.

This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images, and number of videos, how much of it is exclusive, and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years if your company is that old. This should include sales reports, profit and loss statements, and billing reports. Get all the information organized and legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property.

If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything that a potential buyer needs to know, such as are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts, et cetera. Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy, or they’ll find out after the sale and you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands.

Disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Performer Christina Castilla. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Chris from Saucy Time. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Brian Sloan of Auto Blow. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult site broker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a review site network, which has been growing at a good rate for years. It features one of the largest industry directories in the world. It has over 900 pages and has been gaining great traction with Google, with lots of room to grow, it already gets a huge amount of organic traffic more than other review directories with more content, it’s ranking well for their main keywords.

The network is making 50,000 in profit most months with lots of room to grow the best month. The network made over $68,000 in profit. Profit for the year of 2022 was 550,000. The network has some of the best riders in the industry. There are also on-call developers and a full-time virtual assistant who knows every function of the site. The owner would be willing to give the new owner an outline of what could be done to further expand the business in the future.

Only 2.12 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Brian Sloan, the inventor of the Auto Blow. Brian, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (2m 44s): Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 45s): It’s a pleasure. Now six 20 Inventor Brian Sloan graduated from law school in 2005, but he decided he had a brighter future in the field of masturbation devices than he did, helping people with their legal problems. He holds seven US patents in the field of sex, robotics, and related technology with several more pending. Sloan has been profiled in Playboy Magazine, featured in media online and on TV globally. He’s working towards a future where oral sex performed on a man by a human is indistinguishable from an experience generated by his auto blow machine.

The company makes the auto blow AI Plus and the Auto Blow Two plus xt. They sell the devices directly to men from auto blow.com and to stores and chains in the us. They also have distributors in Canada, the EU in Australia. The majority of adult shops globally carry their two devices. So Brian, tell me a little bit more about your background.

Speaker 2 (3m 44s): Yeah, basically I was headed toward a kind of dead end life, I would say, as a lawyer when, when I was in law school, I discovered antique auctions in South Central Pennsylvania and I started going to auctions just for fun with a friend there. I bought something, I sold it on eBay, made like a hundred bucks and I thought, oh, there must be so much more stuff to sell and it doesn’t require me sitting somewhere at a desk and you know, kind of suffering.

So yeah, it started, it started with that and then just sort of, yeah, long, long story short, I, it just led me to the, to the Sex Toys universe and I saw there was a lot of work to be done there.

Speaker 1 (4m 28s): Absolutely. So you went to law school, but you didn’t pursue a career in law. What did you do after you finished school?

Speaker 2 (4m 36s): Yeah, so after law school I moved to Chicago and I, I bought things from auctions full-time and sold the money eBay. Okay. I did that for a couple years, but during that time period, two important things happened. One was that I discovered the, the universe of latex fetish wear as one of the categories that lacked sellers on eBay. And so I started to learn about the category and I started to found a factory that, that made interesting designs and I started selling latex fetish wear on eBay.

And at the same time I was going to China buying antiques there, bringing them back and selling them in the us. And after I made a bunch of those trips, I just started meeting people in Beijing and I thought, you know, it’d be great to live in Beijing. And yeah, after five, a couple week trips there, over that period I just decided May, my future might be in China. And I just moved there to sort of figure out the next steps.

Speaker 1 (5m 36s): Okay. So what happened after that?

Speaker 2 (5m 39s): So then I started first making a, a direct-to-consumer brand of my fetish wear. I took it off of eBay and directly onto my own website. And then I sort of exhausted the universe, the fetish wear universe. It’s, it’s big, but it’s also small, and I wanted a more scalable kind of product. So yeah, I became interested in, in, in businesses that have kind of a moral fence around them.

And once I dug into the sex toys universe, I found wow, there was a huge opportunity to make actually good devices for people. And the only reason that there weren’t more people doing it was because they were afraid of what people would think. So I just sort of dug in and I, I, you know, I was there for, for 10 years and basically I started with one device, one kind of automatic stroker I just bought from a factory and rebranded. And I moved from there to now we’ve like invented our, probably our, our eighth version of our auto blow device in, in, in 13 years.

So just sort of realize that’s what men, men wanted a an automatic masturbation experience and no one was delivering them one seriously. They were delivering them true novelties, you know, like kind of carbon, like

Speaker 1 (6m 56s): Flashlight, like fleshlight and things like

Speaker 2 (6m 58s): That. I mean, no, I, I think flashlight it, they make a, when I say novelty, I mean like a thing you get and it just breaks, you know, that was at the time in 2008 the quality of the automatic device. No, Fleshlight makes a high quality device. They make like an actual, they, it’s, you know, for long time they didn’t make an electronic device, but no, I think they’re known for making a quality device. But they were one of the few people in the universe of males sex toys who took quality seriously. Right. So, I mean, that was inspirational to me. And, and I said, well, if they can make a quality device that’s a handheld, how about I make a quality device that’s, that’s automatic.

And there wasn’t one at the time that when we developed Auto Blow two back in 2014, it was the only, we were the only people who took it seriously. You know, other people just created a like, like a throwaway Right. Jokey kind of product. And so we just took it seriously. And then since then I, I’ve grown the market a lot for, you know, and, and people have started looking for, you know, kitchen appliance quality masturbator, and that’s what interesting. I delivered to them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 60s): So you said that you wanted to get into a business with kind of a fence around it, which would be the adult industry. Why was that?

Speaker 2 (8m 10s): I mean, just from a competitive standpoint, it didn’t make sense that, that there was this huge industry, especially in 2008, there were a bunch more players now, still not as many players as you would expect for the amount of commerce that’s flowing through the industry. True. But, but in 2008, far fewer. And I, and I thought, well, why are very few people getting to make all the money from this entire industry? It doesn’t really make sense. And I learned it. Sure. And now since 2008, sex toys have become far more acceptable, you know, in society and more talented people, I would say have been attracted to the industry.

But at the time it wasn’t attracting, you know, I’m not young now, I’m, you know, 40, almost 42. But when I started I

Speaker 1 (8m 53s): Was, oh my god, really that old. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (8m 56s): I’ll be, but when I started

Speaker 1 (8m 57s): I’ll be, I’ll be 65 in October,

Speaker 2 (8m 59s): So, but yeah. But I’m still one of the younger, you know, people when I started Yes. And I was, you know, 28 or 29 and, and I would go to events. I was like the youngest person there at 30. And now there are far more people in, in that age range who are part of the industry, but at least on the toy side. But at the time, it just wasn’t, the industry was ruled by older people who had been making the same things for like rebranding the same products over and over again for decades. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s a little something wrong with that because people wanted better stuff, you know?

Yes. So there was just opportunity basically.

Speaker 1 (9m 35s): So, I mean, the area that you’re in, it’s not just toys and novelties, but it’s also sex tech. Sex tech has really come into its own and really grown in that period of time.

Speaker 2 (9m 47s): Yeah, I mean, yeah. I, I never call it sex tech. That seems to be like the popular thing to call it, to makes it acceptable. You know, people often use the, the word sex tech to, to kind of mask what it is. I, I just tend not to do it. I say that I make masturbation devices for men, you know? Right. I, I, I don’t say, ah, I make a health device, I make a sexual, you know? No. I say, you know, I say I make a a masturbation machine for men. Right. But yeah, it’s true.

The interest has grown immensely since I started. And not just the interest, but I think the interest was always there, but people were afraid to buy the products. And I think the media wants views. So for whatever the reason is, they needed views, sex was always saying they got them views, but sex technology and sex health kind of let the mainstream media have the best of both worlds. They were able to, to not do anything obscene, but to kind of couch the adult, you know, industry in like in a positive light.

And it, it just kind of made people feel mores secure buying this kind of product for themselves.

Speaker 1 (10m 55s): Well, the thing they call sex tech, the, the numbers have gone up to, to, to huge digits.

Speaker 2 (11m 5s): I, I guess so. I mean, I, I’ve seen it personally in my business. I’ve seen the growth that we’ve experienced. I don’t know anyone else’s. I don’t believe anybody else unless I see their numbers. I don’t believe anything. But I’m sure if something similar that what’s happened to us has happened to other people that yeah, people have grown a lot of medium and large scale businesses over the last 10 years in this industry.

Speaker 1 (11m 26s): So how has your experience with the law helped you as an entrepreneur?

Speaker 2 (11m 31s): To be honest, I think it’s helped me to avoid lawyers mainly. Excellent. And, and it’s, it’s taught me that, that, that I, I’ve seen it firsthand. You know, there’s various, obviously I’m running a, a company of like a medium size I’ve seen, I’ve needed help on various things. And at the beginning I thought, oh, I’ll ask a lawyer. And I think just seeing their scare tactics, I just, I saw the scare tactics of lawyers for what they were, which was like a, a money generation attempt.

You know, I asked, let, let’s say I needed a, let’s, let’s say for example, I, I wanna have a contract with somebody for something, right. And for me, I don’t think that’s gonna go wrong. I think that’s like, I just want to have something for general safety, but, but I have a 98%, you know, belief that nothing’s gonna go wrong. Let’s say I would devote $2,000 to that contract, you know, that’s like my limit of my risk. But I remember once I asked the lawyer at, you know, to do something and they, he started trying to scare me, you know, let me tell you the story of this guy who didn’t do what I said, and he lost his cars, his house, his whole life because they sued him and he didn’t have the right contract in place.

And it’s gonna be starting at 30,000 and then I’m gonna have to get this other council involved, you know, and then what? Oh yeah. I

Speaker 1 (12m 46s): Mean, for a simple contract,

Speaker 2 (12m 47s): I, I, I don’t know that it’s, I mean, if you ask a lawyer, nothing is simple. It says it can be, what I wanted was something simple, but was I a hundred percent protected with that $2,000 contract? No. Could I have been, been better protected with a more like research put in? Yes. But was it worth spending like $30,000 on No, because I don’t, I didn’t believe that the risk was there. So I think it’s taught me to deal with lawyers in a, in a way that’s more advantageous. And, and it’s also helped me to understand that the where, where you win dealing with lawyers isn’t in court, but in, in, in, in, in finding people who are good at having conversations with other people and coming to agreements, you know, that are advantageous.

So I sort of like learned to, to use them when necessary as a tool, but not to get caught up in their scare tactics of needing to spend a lot with them.

Speaker 1 (13m 41s): I would think though, with your background in law school, you would be qualified to write most agreements, right?

Speaker 2 (13m 49s): I suppose. Yeah. I, I suppose you learn about that, but I still wouldn’t trust myself to just write it. I, I’ve written many things myself, but yeah. Not, I, I tend to not need that many agreements. But no, I, I also just tend to trust people who they, they’ve done that. I also don’t trust myself. I trust someone who’s been doing that same thing for 20 years, but I, it is just, I had to work through a bunch of people to find the kind of guy who’s like, yeah, you need that thing. I get it. You wanna spend like 1500 bucks on this thing? It’s not a huge thing. Okay, I’ll bang it out like a three hours deal for you.

You know? Right. Instead of finding someone who’s always looking for the, the kill. So that’s a weird thing. That’s, but that’s what I learned from law school. It’s kind of like what to know whether I’m being bullshitted about costs.

Speaker 1 (14m 32s): Well, there are good lawyers in, there are not so good lawyers and yeah, I, I think the majority are going to give you sound legal advice. At least that’s been my experience. Yeah. And then there are some who, like you said, are looking for the kill. So Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 50s): And they, and they, they both, I’m sure they, they, the ones, all of them can give sound legal advice, but there’s a, you know, there’s people who want long-term relationships. Anyway, it just helped me to be choosy in working with lawyers. But no, I don’t think that, I think in the end, like in the broader way, it helped me to understand that I could teach myself how to do things. You know, I didn’t know anything. I’m not an engineer, I’m not a, a programmer, I wasn’t a marketer at the beginning, but I became one by learning. And I think once, you know, when you get to law school, they, they, one of the first classes you take is civil procedure and it’s hard and none of it makes sense until the end.

And I think once you’ve been through sort of courses like that, then it’s like, well I guess I could learn how to have a website made like that doesn’t seem harder than self procedure. You know? So I think it just sort of shows showed me like that there was something that’s really hard for me. And then other things seemed in comparison less hard.

Speaker 1 (15m 45s): Got it. So why did you decide on an automated male sex toy?

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): That was common sense? That’s the kind of masturbation device at the time. Imagine, think 2008, what was for sale that wasn’t handheld, right? Yeah. It was all handheld stuff or like big rubber butts and stuff. And I just thought it would, I mean, I wasn’t even, to be honest, I wasn’t a sex toy user really at the time, but I just knew if there was a machine that could give you a blowjob, that that’s something that man would want. Yeah. Just, I mean that was just basically absolutely.

I looked on the market like who’s, who’s making a good one? And it’s like, wait a minute, no one’s making a blowjob machine. That’s nuts. So I think it was just kind of common sense. I don’t know how no one really put the time into it before, but I think it’s because the money was coming to people so easily making garbage. Yeah. That they didn’t need to do the work. Like, it’s hard to make a nice hardware. It, it needs a couple years of development per device. You need to hire like kind of more expert level people and it’s, and if you could just make, you know, another fake butt, why would you go through the trouble?

So that’s, I think that was the mentality of people in, in the industry at the time. And it still is the mentality of, you know, a good percentage cuz they don’t need to innovate because they have their enough money already, basically.

Speaker 1 (17m 4s): Well, although I’ve noticed in the last I’d say five to seven years, there is a tremendous amount more product and there’s even more websites out there. They seem to be popping up all the time.

Speaker 2 (17m 20s): If you just look at how many products there are, there are a lot. But if you look at how many products are getting the sales, I would say it’s the 80 20 rule that applies to virtually everything in the world. Yeah, that’s true. And 20% of the products are getting 80% of the sales and then 80, and then the 80 is split the 80 20 again. And then you start to see real where the real volume is in that. Yeah. So a lot of the products are also kind of copying, you know, if you look at the popular products that actually get the sales, they have 10 types of products, you know, are trying to copy the success of every one of the actually popular products.

So it’s true, you know, well you lived in,

Speaker 1 (18m 0s): You lived, you lived in China. That’s done a lot there.

Speaker 2 (18m 3s): Yeah, it is. And you know what? They’re very good at it and it works and it’s a good idea. And that’s actually how innovation happens. When they were first making those suction toys, the womanizer and the, you know, I remember seeing a, a factory, you know, and they were, those toys only had the suction thing for women. And then I saw a factory came out with, it’s the suction thing on the one side and a vibrator like on the other side, you know, like, yeah. That’s innovation. And yeah.

So

Speaker 1 (18m 34s): Well talk a little bit about your invention process.

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): I’m not an engineer, but I, I, I have pretty clear ideas on how I want my devices to work. I tend to work with like small sort of specialty companies. Like there’s a company, a very small company like three to five guys in Canada that helped me develop auto blow ai. I know exactly like what I wanted to do and kind of how, and then I need engineers to like make it reality, right. And then, so I, I work with these guys in Canada and then after they kind of came out with a physical prototype, it’s really important, the factory that I work with in China then takes that thing like they made a thing that would be very expensive to ma to manufacture.

Then my factory in China is very good at taking that. They’re figuring out how to make it for a cost that would make it like mass marketable. So, okay. I think I’m just like, I, I think my skillset is really about sort of having like the vision and then just finding and motivating the, the right people along the way to do the steps that I, I don’t know how to do. You

Speaker 1 (19m 37s): Know? Got it.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): And, and keeping on

Speaker 1 (19m 39s): Track sounds like track a good process sounds like a good process. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 42s): Yeah. I think it’s a normal process.

Speaker 1 (19m 44s): Hmm. Okay. So you have two devices, how are they different?

Speaker 2 (19m 48s): So the auto blow two, two, it’s, we call it auto blow two plus xt, but that’s like the third or fourth iteration of Auto Blow two. That was the first one that became popular after the original one, which was, we sold kind of a bunch of the original one, but it wasn’t like popular, it wasn’t sold like in stores or anything. Auto Blow two basically has a motor and a kind of crank arm that’s connected to that motor and it drives this row three or, well now it’s five rows of like spring loaded beads up and down over a, a rubber sleeve.

It was the popular product before it was our, it was the most popular product in the automatic toy space. And still we have a lot of volume of that, but it is not the latest product. So that one is kind of, the good thing about it is that I think it gets the job done and I think it comes at a competitive price point. It’s like $150 product, but it’s loud, it’s relatively loud, it’s not a quiet product and it just has, has one dial on it that controls for speed and the, the sleeve is removable. So that was like one of the innovations was that you can remove the sleeve.

And actually on that one, the sleeve has three different sizes. So normally products don’t control for your penis size, but ours controls for penis size and tightness level by creating different sizes of sleeves. Like there are bra sizes for women. Got it. So the newer one, which is auto blow AI plus, which is the second generation of auto blow ai, that’s a, a totally different thing. Like we have several patents on the, on the move on the, the, the mechanism. So basically the new one has a, uses a hundred percent silicone sleeve. You put your penis into the device, into the, into the sleeve, which is in the device.

And there’s a penis gripper. And that gripper actually, you can modify the tightness level of that with a screwdriver. There’s a hole on the top and you put a screwdriver in and you can make the gripper tighter or looser depending on your personal preference. And so it, it manipulates that sleeve up and down over your penis really causing like more of this gliding and sliding action that, that occurs during real blowjobs. And it has, so it’s, it has four buttons, has a pause button, a speed buttons, and a, and a blowjob mode button.

And it has 10 LEDs. So you can always see which blowjob experience you’re in and which speed you’re in. But importantly it also connects to the internet. So the device itself connects to the internet and it uses a web app, so there’s no app to download it. You basically visit a webpage on your phone or whatever device you can control exactly which part of your penis it strokes on that you can download. There’s a blowjob library, so you can download from a library of blowjobs, additional blowjobs onto the device. You can send easily a link to a remote partner.

And the minute the second that they click that link, they’re automatically logged into the web app and they can control the device for you. Oh. And it’s, it’s the first sex soy ever that has voice control. So it has voice control built onto the, like the device or the chip itself. And there’s no wake word. So it takes six voice commands. Once you’re in the online mode, you can tell it faster, slower, pause, finish Me is the big one that turns the AI mode on in the fastest speed level to, to finish you.

So, and yeah, long story short, we did a machine learning study of the actions that occurred during blowjob. So that, and we implemented the, the, the act, you know, the, the movements that occurred during real blowjobs are the movements we programmed into the machine. So it’s not just like a few guys sat around and thought, well what do we make it do? And it’s like, it just goes up and down or it does this or that. Yeah, no, we actually understood we’re the first people to understand what happens during real blow jobs and, and and to implement those kind of movements into the machine.

So yeah, it’s a different experience. It’s a more expensive product. It’s a $240 product now, or $250 product, but it’s a different level of of experience, you know, for people that can afford the extra hundred bucks.

Speaker 1 (23m 48s): It sounds a very space age. Are you, you said a, a remote partner can control it. Is there any point where the remote partner will be able to give a device a blowjob and you’ll get that blowjob?

Speaker 2 (24m 2s): There are people who’ve implemented that. None have been implemented on a, on a product that’s commercially interesting. I think to the public, it’s not an area that I focus on. Certainly you can do it, but I don’t see that that’s where the public wants to go with this. With the technology, there are popular internet products for women. It’s like the, the Lovens brand or the, oh my bot brand are used by webcam models and it’s mainly used by women and men control that. I don’t think that many women wanna control men’s devices outside of like a, a paid situation.

So we don’t, I don’t really focus on this connect i, I focus on we can do that and there is a probably a, some people who will use it, but I don’t think it’s like the big, the future is in, you know, a woman giving like a a whoever giving a blowjob to like a, a dildo and the the device moving. I just don’t see it that people would rather not do it. I feel interesting and it’s possible I could implement it if I wanted to, but I, I don’t want to.

Speaker 1 (25m 1s): Okay. Yeah. Just something that came to mind. Yeah. What gives the, what gives the auto blowing advantage over the competition?

Speaker 2 (25m 10s): So basically the, the way that it, the newer version, at least the way that it grips the penis and does this gliding and sliding, it feels great. Not only does it feel good, but I, I feel like that our, our experiences are, are more realistic than what the competing products do. And our internet feature set is far simpler to use than the competing products feature set. We’re like, after you tell it how to connect to the internet, we’re like one tap, basically hold a button, press go, and you basically are are in, there’s no Bluetooth, there’s no configuring, there’s no, it’s, I think it’s a lot more user friendly cuz I’ve seen from competing products that have internet features, a lot of people have trouble making it work because they use Bluetooth.

And Bluetooth is a big pain in the ass. And so we avoid it by using wifi only.

Speaker 1 (26m 0s): Cool. So you have a very funny video on the website. I loved it. How did you come up with it and what kind of response has it

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): Gotten? Yeah, so from the time that I, I first made Auto Blow two, I decided to communicate to, to, to people through cartoons especially because I feel there’s a lot of people who might buy a sex way, it might not, they, they, I feel like it, it takes it out of the realm of being sleazy and it’s just something like funny. I just like communicating. I, I feel like it’s unusual to see cartoons of an adult nature. So people are already kind of like, oh this is like actually a cartoon about like a blowjob machine.

So they’re, I dunno, they’re kind of interested and I, I have fun. Like this is what I, I think I’m good at doing. So I, I enjoy doing it. I write those, so like, I write them, I, I I write out how everything should go and then I, there’s a, a, a company that I work with who implements the, my ideas and, and like the voiceovers beta stuff. So I think it’s kind of like half of it is that it’s fun for me. And the second half is that when, when we started doing it, it worked and people liked being communicated with Sure. In, in that way. So I, I just kept, kept doing it.

Speaker 1 (27m 12s): Well that company’s very good at what they do. I might have to get the name from you. How have you gotten so much press over the years?

Speaker 2 (27m 20s): I understand what kind of product features are interesting from a societal perspective. You know, it’s like if you’re like, oh look, I made this new pair of headphones. It’s like no one cares. You know, like maybe they’re a little better than other headphones, but you’re not getting in the news over it. Right, right. So I’ve only, I’ve done some outrageous things that have like, that have a, a big impact on, on, on people. For example, you know, the the reason auto blow two went viral when we started was that I crowdfunded it on a crowdfunding website.

And the, the thing, the crazy thing was that people started buying it. We sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth on a crowdfunding website and no one had ever crowdfunded an adult product for that much money before. Wow. So the story and, and I use myself, so people were like, not only did people, like thousands of people buy this blowjob machine on a crowdfunding website, but can you believe this guy who was like promoting it? Like, it’s outrageous. So I kind of learned sort of how to deliver something that was both like societally like relevant to society, but but also interesting and kind of funny and, and shareable.

And I think the other big one that, that we did was the vagina contest. So we had a huge scale vaginal beauty contest. It was on this website, vagina contest.com and I think it would never fly today. They would never write about vagina contest.com today. But you know what, No. In 2015 it just like hit a nerve and it went viral all over the world and millions of people started visiting the website and it ended with a, a a a website came to Germany to, to make a short documentary about me and the women who came to, who are the winners of the contest when I 3D scanned them.

So funny. You know, I think it’s about kind of creating entertainment. There’s like a mix of entertainment and commerce that I think I sort of just sort of understand how to hit.

Speaker 1 (29m 18s): What’s your vision on using tech in different ways than other adult toy companies are doing?

Speaker 2 (29m 24s): Yeah, so, you know, on this topic of voice control, there are, so companies are, even the couple companies that focus on high tech, I don’t think they’re really having like the, that that big of a vision of, of what kind of technology is possible to implement in adult toys that other people just haven’t done. So, I mean, I just looked around and said, look, cell phones, we, we are all talking to our Siri and Alexa or whatever, but why hasn’t anyone implemented in sex ways?

It’s natural for people to continually Sure. Talk to their phone or their Alexa. So, you know, the voice control’s just an example of something that, you know, it’s just opportunity. Like no one has done that and it’s, it wasn’t easy to do. Like that was a lot of work and, and I think how much work it is, you know, nor if you, if you’ve looked the, the products that implement those kind of things normally are in much larger companies, you know? Yeah. With much larger budget. So we had to be pretty scrappy to do it. And I wouldn’t say ours is not like as accurate as Alexa or something. Right. But it’s, it’s pretty good for who we are and like the budget and stuff, right.

So, sure. I think people are just afraid of like figuring out how to do awesome technology for less and maybe they’re afraid of releasing stuff that’s like, you know, ours is like in the, let’s say it’s around 85% accurate, Siri and Alexa are like in the high nineties. Right. I’m not afraid to release that and say, yeah, it’s like pretty accurate. It’s not gonna be perfect, you know? But I think some companies don’t wanna do things that aren’t perfect, but I think we’re happy to do something cool and just tell people like, don’t expect that we’re gonna be Apple cause we’re not. But you know, so yeah.

I think it’s just a, a level of comfort with figuring out how to do stuff with new technology and, and being comfortable not doing it. Absolutely perfectly.

Speaker 1 (31m 7s): Sure. What do you think the future holds for adult novelty companies regarding acquisitions and mergers?

Speaker 2 (31m 16s): Yeah, so this is something, you know, a company is already contacted us, but I, I don’t think it’s really my time to sell. And there’s a lot of mergers and acquisitions happening. It’s particularly in Europe, two big companies have started buying up smaller companies. It’s coming. It’s interesting. And if this was any other industry, okay, it would’ve started 10 years ago. Okay. So the fact that it’s just starting and there’s a few big companies playing around, it means that more of them are coming and there’s gonna be a lot of consolidation.

I’d say in the next 10 years there’s gonna be a ton of consolidation and, you know, whether or not those, I don’t know what the future looks like of the industry with those companies, honestly, but I think there’s gonna be opportunity for people who wanna sell. But I think it also might get harder, you know, one of the risks for us making this kind of product is imagine, you know, if, if you look at what we can do with my, you know, small medium company, what if Sony decided it was gonna make a blowjob machine? What if Samsung decided to make vibrators?

Like those people can, can those, those giant, you know, global companies have, they could make amazing adult products, right? Sure. So I think there’s opportunity from the, from, from the acquisitions, but it just depends if any giant companies, you know, will, will start competing, I think it’s gonna be kind of risky for everyone in the industry. But I, I don’t think we’re there yet that those global companies will, will come in. But who knows in maybe 20 or 25 years they could have run out of other things to make and they could come for us.

So.

Speaker 1 (32m 56s): Sure. So what’s the future for Auto Blow?

Speaker 2 (33m 1s): We have a few more pieces of hardware now in development really focused on this kind of automatic experience. I just think about kind of the medium term. I think about really only the next one or two years we have a couple new, new pieces of hardware that we’re working on. So I’m young, I’m, I’m only 42 and I have still a lot of runway left to continue to figure out, you know, new styles of devices with, with all the new technology that keeps coming out. You know, there were some motor types. For example, there was a type of motor I looked at like a couple years ago.

We bought samples to play with, they were $600 a piece just for the motor. Okay. But they were silent. But you can imagine in a few years that maybe that kind of $600 silent motor becomes a, you know, a $50 silent motor or a $20 silent motor and then interesting things become possible. So I think just by staying really, I, I I read a lot on the internet all day kind of every day. So yeah, I think that as long as I, I sort of keep reading about the latest technologies, I’ll keep finding interesting new technologies to implement into products and sort of continue having our own little walled garden of masturbation devices.

Speaker 1 (34m 11s): Very good. So do you see the auto blow and sex robots somehow merging into something greater at some point? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (34m 19s): You know, the, the, the media loves sex robots because they’re outrageous. Oh sure. But I don’t, I don’t think there’s any future in the next like decades at least in these humanoid style of robots. People don’t really wanna have sex with a robot person. It’s bizarre. I mean, it’s like having sex with a corpse. Okay. Like, I mean, even if you make it its mouth kind of talk to you or whatever. It’s not, I mean, it’s not, it’s, it’s like a, it’s like a dead person.

So there’s a, a very small group of people who, who more buy those kind of dolls for like more companionship reasons, which I can understand cuz you know, people are different. So I understand the companionship a, you know, aspect, but on the mass market, it’s just not a convenient thing to own, you know, a human size thing that needs to live in your closet. So I think that the growth is really only gonna happen on devices like ours. I think devices like mine will get better and quieter and maybe smaller, maybe even bigger depending on what they can do.

But the doll market will always be there and there’ll always be people kind of trying to put robotics and dolls into the same sort of category. But I, I don’t see it for at least my lifetime becoming a product that most people are interested in just because it doesn’t do anything back to you. It’s not Westworld, it’s, it just lays there, you know. So, you know, when they, they, when they did make it, honestly, when they did make the robots, that, that kind of talk, I was thinking the thing that they made the robot to is talk that’s, they wanted to like move on your body when you’re having sex with it, but as long as it just lays there, I think that’s a kind of a, a niche, a very niche market.

Speaker 1 (35m 60s): Well what if they do develop it so it actually moves?

Speaker 2 (36m 4s): Yeah. Like if a robot sits in your lap and kind of like has sex with you, but it’s still, it’s gonna be, it’s not gonna be like fluid like a human. It’s gonna be like they installed some kind of thing in it and it’s like hips go back and forth like, you know, almost like killing you. It’s not gonna be like a gentle, we’re a long way off from a gentle robot, robot humanoid robot experience.

Speaker 1 (36m 25s): Yeah, you’re probably right. Well, Brian, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (36m 35s): Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (36m 36s): It was a pleasure. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about eliminating unneeded expenses. Next you can trademark your website. Having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable when it comes time to sell it. Trademarking your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment when it comes time to sell it.

Show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends. If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better. Be different in some distinguishable way than makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you.

Make your site a place that people wanna visit, not just to buy things or view porn. Be creative, not just one of the many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site. Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech. We’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week we’ll be speaking with Chris of Saucy time. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk.

I’d once again like to thank my guest, Brian Sloan of Auto Blow. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with dominatrix and hypnotist Mistress Carol, Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a streaming network of sites for independent performers. Most of the traffic comes from North America. It’s the Shopify of streaming video and offers turnkey streaming sites to content creators. All creators have to do is provide some information about their brand, choose a look and feel, upload their images and videos, and they launch their streaming site on the domain of their choice in just minutes.

The platform provides everything creators need from customer support to payment processing, so creators can focus on managing their content and marketing their site. The platform can also generate revenue from ads on free content, as well as subscriptions to premium content. The platform uses AWS Cloud technology to stream live and on-demand content all around the world. The sale also includes a mainstream platform. The content is sold on a monthly subscription basis.

The code was developed in-house by their team of engineers. This is a great opportunity to enter the exciting world of live streaming video for a modest cost. Platforms like this cost a lot more to build from scratch, only $540,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Mr. Carroll. Mr. Carroll, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 50s): Oh, you’re very welcome. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (2m 53s): It’s a pleasure. Now, Mr. Carroll is a dominatrix, erotic hypnotist and clinical hypnotherapist. I’m gonna try not to screw that up at erotic hypnosis for men.com. She’s an expert at controlling your mind and taking you deep into the sensual experience of hypnotic trance and fantasy. Her sessions have been celebrated as some of the best in the industry with her provocative and controlling voice that welcomes one to surrender into hypnotic submission with an intellectual interest in psychology and the mysteries of the subconscious mind.

Mr. Carroll has been practicing hypnosis and creating erotic transitions for over 10 years. As a sensu, she takes pleasure in creating a dream-like environment where one may be immersed in fantasy, lost inside her control and sexually dominated. As she blows your mind, she thrives on pain and pleasure, domination and submission control and surrender, plus passion and desire with a bit of a mischievous streak and a playful manner, Mr. Carol enjoys the dynamics of tease and denial, taking you to the edge of agony and lust, then leaving you aching for more professionally.

Mr. Carroll is also a clinical hypnotherapist and works with the community, supporting individuals with overcoming issues and habits, so they may create their best lives. She’s helped many to overcome anxiety, stop smoking, lose weight, and conquer their own personal limitations. Mr. Ll is the creator of erotic hypnosis for men.com, a layer of wicked enchantment and depravity, which features a captivating variety of recorded erotic hypnosis sessions available for online purchase.

Mr. Ll also offers live online sessions for one-on-one trance experiences and distance training on many sexually inspiring topics. You may also find her older discounted sessions at my hypnotic domains, or visit her@loyalfans.com slash Mr. Carroll, where you can enjoy her subscriber only v i p content. And we’ve got a treat on the podcast today. Mr. Carroll is gonna do a few minutes of trance with us, so it should be interesting.

Speaker 2 (5m 3s): Mr. Carroll.

Speaker 1 (5m 5s): Yes. What’s involved? Yeah, my, I’m losing my voice here. What’s involved,

Speaker 2 (5m 10s): You may sound,

Speaker 1 (5m 12s): What’s involved in erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (5m 15s): Well, before I talk about erotic hypnosis, I’d like to touch on what hypnosis is. Hypnosis is an altered state of mind in which you focus your awareness on the speaker. You experience decreased awareness of the things around you. You become relaxed and it’s adjustable. So that is hypnosis in a nutshell. And of course, everybody knows that hypnosis is good for all sorts of things that I You And so is erotic hypnosis that matter of fact,

Speaker 1 (5m 50s): Erotic hypnosis.

Speaker 2 (5m 51s): Yeah, erotic hypnosis is hypnosis with a sexual component. There are many different genres. Of course, I’m a dominatrix, I’m a mistress, so I use that point of view in my recordings. Okay. Although I’m a, a clinical hypnotherapist too, so I, I also make recordings that are helpful to people to relax or shed anxiety just to feel good, just to have a timeout.

Speaker 1 (6m 19s): Great.

Speaker 2 (6m 20s): So ERO hypnosis is hypnosis with a sexual component to it.

Speaker 1 (6m 24s): Okay. So how did you get started with erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (6m 30s): Actually, I got started in B D S M first. I met my partner over 20 years ago and had moved on to a different type of life. Met him and he shared his desires of exploring B D S M, and I thought, yeah, that sounds like a good time. So we experimented. We tried switch, which we would go back and forth, and I said, no, that’s not working me, Dom, you sub. So after, oh, 10 years of our experimentation in 2008, I lost my job and my former life, I was a commercial construction project manager.

Speaker 1 (7m 12s): Yeah, we were talking about that course.

Speaker 2 (7m 14s): Yeah. Every, everything can I curse, everything went to shit

Speaker 1 (7m 21s): For everybody.

Speaker 2 (7m 22s): For everybody. So I lost my job and it took two years of unemployment before I found another one. But before I did find that job, my partner turned me onto erotic hypnosis and let me listen to a couple of sessions by some excellent artists. And I went, whoa, that tick a couple of boxes for me. Domination, psychology, control, all sorts of things. Yeah. So I wanted to experiment, and I used a rudimentary microphone and created a session for him, and he went in and listened to it and came back out with red eyes and said, that’s as good as anything I’ve heard on the internet bulb.

So I decided, okay, this is fun. I’m going to start my own business creating erotic hypnosis recordings. And at the same time that I did that, I did that in the November of 2010, and then by the beginning of the next year I was employed. Hmm. So for quite some time, I did both at the same time. Okay. So I’d have to credit my discovery of a rod hypnosis was through my partner.

Speaker 1 (8m 26s): Yeah. That’s awesome. That is, that is really, that is really awesome. It,

Speaker 2 (8m 30s): It is awesome. When you find something that really clicks with you in many different ways,

Speaker 1 (8m 35s): How has the onset of the fan sites helped you sell those sessions?

Speaker 2 (8m 45s): Well, you know, I avoided them for quite some time. And I just now recently have joined loyal fans, and I don’t know how well they cross over just yet because I’m new to loyal fans.

Speaker 1 (8m 60s): Right.

Speaker 2 (9m 0s): But it’s nice to have somewhere else to expose your work Yeah. And to find new people. So it’s a good mix, but I still don’t know whether or not ultimately one is helping the other.

Speaker 1 (9m 19s): Hmm. Yeah. That makes sense. Well, any place that you can market is, is certainly a good thing. And there are a lot of outlets for that. So I would encourage you to certainly put the content on as many sites as possible. I would think something like clips for sale, which

Speaker 2 (9m 36s): Yeah. They take a little

Speaker 1 (9m 38s): Bit too more tend to be more, more

Speaker 2 (9m 38s): Much cash.

Speaker 1 (9m 40s): What’s that?

Speaker 2 (9m 41s): I don’t like to give up my money. They take a little bit too much of my cash.

Speaker 1 (9m 44s): Well, that’s not, that’s not a good thing. Okay. Very good. So, so what do you enjoy about erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (9m 52s): There’s many dis different aspects of it. I enjoy, I enjoy the creativity. So I get to think about how I want to hypnotize somebody. What methods, what genre do, is it bdsm? Is it bondage, is it just deep trance? I have many different topics to choose from. So I sit down and write my script, record it, and produce it. And it’s, it’s very, it’s very creative and it feeds my dominant side while subs get to enjoy it too.

Speaker 1 (10m 25s): Can you hypnotize me to rob a bank for you?

Speaker 2 (10m 28s): Do you wanna rob a bank?

Speaker 1 (10m 30s): No,

Speaker 2 (10m 31s): Then no, unfortunately. Well, unfortunately, actually, this isn’t something you wanted anybody to have control over. You. Hypnosis cannot make you do something you would not do out of hypnosis. Hmm. So you don’t wanna rob a bank. You would not do it for me if I hypnotized you. TV shows a different picture, and that’s fun for entertainment. But I would imagine if anybody had that capacity, hypnosis would soon become a thing of the past.

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): Yeah. That would suck

Speaker 2 (11m 4s): The kind of power and control over somebody else’s mind. Yeah. What do you think it is? The government or something

Speaker 1 (11m 12s): Spoken by someone who used to work for the state of California? Right?

Speaker 2 (11m 15s): Yeah. Yeah. That was the job I got back in, in 2010. Five years of hell.

Speaker 1 (11m 23s): Yeah. We touched on a few things in our casual conversation and you, you, you happen to mention that. And I went, oh no.

Speaker 2 (11m 32s): Oh, it was horrid. It really was. But you do what you have to do knowing that better things are around the corner.

Speaker 1 (11m 39s): Yeah. And they obviously were,

Speaker 2 (11m 41s): They were, I’m having so much fun now I work for myself. Yeah. And that is a wonderful thing. I can do things in my own timeframe.

Speaker 1 (11m 49s): Yeah. So talk about the, the line of work you had before you became a hypnotist.

Speaker 2 (11m 57s): I was in commercial construction and I was the project manager. So my tools were a computer and a telephone Yeah. And a car. And I did mostly tenant improvements, although I did do a large shopping center down in San Jose and ran the construction projects from estimating to project closeout. Everything about it belong to me, and that was really good at it too. And I enjoyed it. I wouldn’t have left it voluntarily to do this.

Yeah. So getting that nasty job with the state pushed me in a great direction. But yeah, I, I was in construction for over 25 years. I didn’t do management the whole 25 years. I did management for about 15 years.

Speaker 1 (12m 42s): You couldn’t pick a more different line of work than what you’re doing now.

Speaker 2 (12m 48s): Well, think about it. I’m still telling men what to do.

Speaker 1 (12m 55s): That’s funny.

Speaker 2 (12m 56s): So it kind of fits together a little bit.

Speaker 1 (12m 59s): So what about that, you know, you mentioned telling men what to do. What about that is appealing to you?

Speaker 2 (13m 6s): Oh, I’m a dominatrix. I like to, to be in control of situations. I like to play with the minds of others and open them up and show them what they can experience psychologically through the use of hypnosis and altered states, and take them down into deep trance. And the subconscious mind is such a powerful thing. Right. And they, through images and suggestibility, they experience these things.

I can some, not all, because suggestibility is different in everyone, but there are people that I can take down into trance and suggest to them to have a hands free orgasm. And that’s precisely what they do without even touching themselves through the use of words alone. Wow.

Speaker 1 (13m 58s): Seriously.

Speaker 2 (13m 60s): Seriously. That is the

Speaker 1 (14m 1s): Power without, without even touching themselves.

Speaker 2 (14m 4s): That is right. Not everybody can do it.

Speaker 1 (14m 6s): That’s crazy. And

Speaker 2 (14m 7s): Those, those who can’t are really disappointed, but a lot of people can.

Speaker 1 (14m 12s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (14m 12s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14m 13s): You’re a lifestyle dominatrix. You, you mentioned that your, your partner got you into it. Yes. But what, what really drew you to the lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (14m 25s): I think it was an opportunity to let a side of my personality that I hadn’t played with before out to experiment. And the more I did it, the more I enjoyed it, the better I got back around in that circle. The more I did it, the better I got. The more he enjoyed it, the more I enjoyed it. And it just growed, growed it.

Speaker 1 (14m 47s): Just a new word.

Speaker 2 (14m 49s): Yeah. It just grew into a very pleasurable, intimate, sexual relationship.

Speaker 1 (14m 59s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (14m 59s): And I can take the things that I’ve learned as a dominatrix and I can take them and use them in my recordings also.

Speaker 1 (15m 7s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (15m 8s): So I’ve done recordings using chloroform for force talks, lovers. I’ve done nipple piercing, I’ve done the use of smoke. Hmm. But all of those things aren’t very mainstream.

Speaker 1 (15m 25s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15m 26s): And the situations that work best for most of my clients are just relinquishing control to me for a period of time and being taken away where they have no responsibility and they can enjoy the pleasure of surrendering to a dominant mistress.

Speaker 1 (15m 49s): Is it hard to get them to relinquish control?

Speaker 2 (15m 54s): Well, it depends on the individual. That’s why I don’t keep anything back. If it’s very difficult for you and you don’t like giving up control to another, my hypnosis is probably not for you. If you enjoy it and you still don’t feel like you’re a submissive, well, you’re a submissive for the time that I have you in trance. And then you go on your merry way. But if you’re really opposed to it, it’s probably not going to be something you’re comfortable with.

Yeah. And it’s very important to establish a sense of trust and rapport. Yeah. For someone to be able to go that deep into trance,

Speaker 1 (16m 36s): I would think.

Speaker 2 (16m 37s): Yeah. I mean, you don’t wanna be surrendering your subconscious mind to just anyone that would, could be dangerous.

Speaker 1 (16m 44s): Yeah. Now, you also do live sessions, right?

Speaker 2 (16m 47s): I do. In fact, I just finished one before you and I got together. And unfortunately my internet dropped, but that’s okay. He and I got back together and I said, I want you to sleep. And he was back down, down deep into hypnosis with just one simple word.

Speaker 1 (17m 2s): Geez.

Speaker 2 (17m 3s): He’s very suggestible. That’s,

Speaker 1 (17m 5s): That’s powerful.

Speaker 2 (17m 6s): Very suggestible. And that’s so much fun. Oh my goodness. It is really fun. I get to have all the fun. Well, they have fun

Speaker 1 (17m 16s): Too, I can tell you enjoy what you do.

Speaker 2 (17m 19s): I really do. I really do.

Speaker 1 (17m 22s): So what do you like, go ahead. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (17m 24s): I was gonna say, but I really like hypnotherapy too, but there’s, there’s a firewall in between both practices. They don’t beat in the middle, it’s one or the other.

Speaker 1 (17m 34s): Right. Of course. Of course. Now, what do you like doing with your play partners The most?

Speaker 2 (17m 40s): My personal play partners? Yeah. Oh, I’m a big lover of nipple play, pegging, forced inta. My partner’s got a smoke fetish, which feeds both of us. I’m not a, a daily smoker by any means, but playing with him is a lot of fun bondage. He’s not into his C B T, so we just don’t go there.

Speaker 1 (18m 4s): Sorry, what’s C B T?

Speaker 2 (18m 6s): Oh, cotton ball Torture.

Speaker 1 (18m 8s): Ah. I wouldn’t be,

Speaker 2 (18m 10s): Yeah. As your boss, Frank,

Speaker 1 (18m 11s): Make me hurt. Just thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (18m 13s): Yeah. But we use a lot of hypnosis in our relationship now. Whether it’s going on something physical afterwards, I typically start with a recording. I set him up with a recording and we have a unit that I can talk through while he’s listening to recording. So I can enhance it for whatever I have planned for him, which is pretty slick. So I can use recordings I make for others and just enhance ’em and make him listen to them. But he loves hypnosis, so it’s easy for both of us.

Speaker 1 (18m 45s): Great. Have you ever had anything unusual happen during A B D S M sessions? She laughs.

Speaker 2 (18m 53s): Oh gosh. Back when I was a baby dom and we were both experimenting, there was a couple of fantasies that he had that I tried to fulfill. I did fulfill them, but on my side, and it was a little rocky. He wanted to have his nipples pierced and I hate needles, but I love him. So, way back when I decided I’m going to do this, got all the supplies ready to go, he was really good about it.

Held still. I did it. I suffered through it with him and ended up piercing both his nipples. A few weeks later, they healed up.

Speaker 1 (19m 35s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (19m 36s): I had to do it again.

Speaker 1 (19m 37s): Oh shit.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): Yeah, that’s what I thought. But I did it second time was easier than the first. Still difficult, but easier than the first. So when I see some of those photographs posted on the internet of elaborate needle patterns, I have to admire them. And then I have to look away cuz it’s just not my thing.

Speaker 1 (19m 57s): Yeah. A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people are squeamish about that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (20m 2s): Yeah. I mean, it’s either you love it or hate it, I guess it’s just never been something

Speaker 1 (20m 7s): I would’ve been a, I would’ve been a great drug addict, probably. I mean, I’m like, when I go to get a blood test, I’m like looking right at right at at her and looking at my arm. Keep

Speaker 2 (20m 17s): It to me,

Speaker 1 (20m 17s): Babe. Give it, go for it. Go for it. And then I, I’ll say, I’ll say things like, ow, you know, just to, to mess her up. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (20m 28s): And another incident, we had another, he’s a forced into guy. He wanted to try chloroform. And I can’t tell you how I got my hands on him, but I did. And the first time I used it on him, he started speaking in tongues and I just about came on undone. I thought, my God, I’ve killed him. What have I done to him? And it was just a reaction of the first time he’d ever been chloroform. But I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that. I thought I killed him. I’m never doing this again.

Speaker 1 (20m 60s): Oh God.

Speaker 2 (21m 0s): But that wasn’t the case. So yeah, those are the two things that really stand out in my mind as I was working my way through learning bdsm, becoming more confident in my skills and getting good at what I do. I mean, there’s some tiers, some anchor, but now the adventures are a lot of fun. And I get to, like I said before, I cross over from the playroom to the studio and take some of my knowledge and create hypnosis for those that are into such things.

I wouldn’t recommend anyone who would be offended by the use of chloroform to listen to any of my sessions. I had one of my subs contact me yesterday saying how much he hated it. I thought, well, why did you buy it? It says right there at chloroform. But if it’s something that offends your mind, you are not going to be able to stay in T trance. You will come out. Yeah. If you’re a chlor, if you’re a forced into lover, you probably will enjoy the whole thing. But if you’re opposed to that sort of thing, you’ll come directly out of trance.

That’s how the subconscious mind works. It’ll pop you right out. If it’s something that your subconscious mind determines is a danger to you or does not fit within your belief system, your mind will pull you right out of trance.

Speaker 1 (22m 21s): That whole chloroform instance must have been really a shock to your system.

Speaker 2 (22m 27s): It was. It was petrifying. He was fine. He didn’t care. But it, it really did scare me a lot. So you have to be careful with such things. You know what you’re doing.

Speaker 1 (22m 37s): Absolutely. Now, you’re also a hypnotherapist. Now what exactly does that entail?

Speaker 2 (22m 44s): In my hypnotherapy practice, I use techniques that help people to get rid of certain things within their minds, such as anxiety. Hypnotherapy is absolutely brilliant for anxiety. I’ve had a couple of clients who had debilitating anxiety and hypnotherapy got rid of it, and they leave happy normal lives. Nice. The subconscious mind is where all of your beliefs are stored, your habits.

It’s a 24 7 recording device, basically. So everything that you’ve experienced in life is in there. Yeah. Whether or not you can remember it, it still affects your behaviors. So people have hypnotherapy to get rid of those behaviors. Right. And there are certain blocks and obstacles that you’ve got in there that hypnotherapy lets you remove so that they can change the behaviors, whether it’s being anxious or a repeating habit that you wanna get rid of smoking, losing weight, something personal.

Personal issue. So it’s a way to get into the subconscious mind without chemicals, so you don’t have to go to the doctor and take medication to get rid of your anxiety. So if there’re people out there listening to this podcast, you’re anxious, you’re on the edge, you think you want to go and get some help medically? Yeah. Try hyp, try hypnotherapy first. Yeah. It, you know, I’ve had with anxiety, I’ve had a hundred percent track record. Wow. So give it a try before you go and get a pharmaceutical.

Speaker 1 (24m 26s): Yeah. Because doctors are so quick to prescribe things.

Speaker 2 (24m 30s): Oh yeah. That’s how that big pharma makes their money. And doctors are part of that

Speaker 1 (24m 34s): Shtick. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Did you, did you read that book about Purdue Pharma?

Speaker 2 (24m 42s): I did not.

Speaker 1 (24m 43s): Oh God. It’s, I forget the name of it, but I, it, it was a, looks like 600 pages, but it’s basically how Purdue Pharma got over on the entire world by, you know, the, I mean, there was virtually no accountability. The money they ended up being fined, they could have taken out of their back pocket. So, oh. You know, they were the ones who, the, who sparked the whole opioid crisis.

Speaker 2 (25m 9s): Oh God. That is just horrible. I’m glad I haven’t read it. I would find that extremely disturbing.

Speaker 1 (25m 14s): It’s, it was disturbing. But it was very interesting. It started with the beginning, the founder, Purdue Pharma, they were also the ones that started advertising meds.

Speaker 2 (25m 28s): Oh

Speaker 1 (25m 29s): Yeah. They were the first, the guy that was the founder of Purdue Pharma was an advertising guy.

Speaker 2 (25m 38s): Oh great.

Speaker 1 (25m 39s): Oh, it’s, it’s a fascinating read. It is just a fascinating read. I, I, I couldn’t believe it. But yeah, I mean that’s, that’s what doctors wanna do. They wanna prescribe meds.

Speaker 2 (25m 51s): Yes. Everybody makes some money.

Speaker 1 (25m 54s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (25m 55s): And, but you know, I’ve taken medication before. I wear one disrupted my system. So they gave me another for that disruption. And then there’s another disruption when I should have never had it in the first place. And I think that happens to a lot of people too.

Speaker 1 (26m 7s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26m 8s): Yeah. I’m an advocate for the natural stuff.

Speaker 1 (26m 12s): So with hypnosis, let’s say I wanna lose weight, which I do wanna lose weight. How does hypnosis help me lose weight?

Speaker 2 (26m 21s): Well, just like erotic hypnosis, the, they’re different because in neurotic hypnosis, you can use a lot of language that you can’t in hypnotherapy. But I put you in basically a transfer. You become deeply relaxed and you slip from your conscious mind into your subconscious mind. Okay. So the patterns of why you overeat or what you do to yourself are stored there. So I am your guy. Right. I just show you how to find them.

You find them, you remove them. Okay. Which allows you to make the changes that you want to make. Hmm. So you, you could have had something when you were three years old that your parents said to you that created an issue in your subconscious mind that causes you to overeat. You just, you just don’t know. Right. Because you pick up everything. So you don’t know where it came from. You just know that you have this behavior that you want to change. Right. And consciously you’re aware that you wanna change that behavior.

Right. But subconscious mind comes in there, say you’re smoking, I love cigarettes. I love it when we can go outside and have quiet time and just have a cigarette. Your conscious mind is saying, I gotta quit. Your subconscious mind is saying, oh, don’t we feel good when we smoke

Speaker 1 (27m 37s): It?

Speaker 2 (27m 37s): We have no therapy house.

Speaker 1 (27m 38s): It sounds like, it sounds like animal house with, with sounds like people. Yeah. Well it sounds like animal house where he is got the, where he is, got the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder. Remember that. It’s,

Speaker 2 (27m 48s): It’s kinda like that in a, a little more complex way. But hip therapy helps the subconscious mind and the conscious mind to quit fighting and just get along. So it helps you to get into your own mind. Right. And help you make those changes that you want to make. The techniques that I can use, I can even work with somebody who’s had trauma. I don’t have to know what that trauma is. Right. Because in traditional therapy, what do you do? You talk about the trauma. So you just make it a fresh wound.

But with hypnotherapy, there are techniques that you can use to get in there and remove the things that just don’t work. Replace them with good positive things, get out the boot, out the negative, put in the positive, and get back to living your good life.

Speaker 1 (28m 34s): Does it make them forget the trauma or does it just kind of wipe clean what the trauma did?

Speaker 2 (28m 40s): No, it just helps you to rise above it. Beyond it. No, I don’t think hypnotherapy, although I, I can, I, in erotic hypnosis, I can hypnotize somebody so deeply they don’t remember what I did or what I said. But with hypnotherapy, you’re, you’re more aware of what you are doing and where you are. So unfortunately it’s, it doesn’t wipe clear any past trauma, but it certainly helps you get over it.

Speaker 1 (29m 7s): Yeah. Very interesting. So when you aren’t hypnotizing people, what do you like to do?

Speaker 2 (29m 13s): Oh, what do I like to do?

Speaker 1 (29m 15s): No,

Speaker 2 (29m 15s): I asked you. I, I like, I am an avid fisherwoman. I don’t know, fisherwoman is, I think it’s fisherman is the correct term. I love to deep seafish. I absolutely love to fish. Hmm. I fish in lakes and rivers. But my thing is getting on a boat in a boat on the ocean.

Speaker 1 (29m 34s): Not seas much. Are you?

Speaker 2 (29m 36s): I have never gotten seasick. No. I’ve been out in Bodega Bay and you know what that’s like. And I never got sick. I was one of two people who didn’t get sick on a trip once that we went out there. So I’m very fortunate since I love to fish so much. Hmm. And I like to do things outside, hiking and exploring. But right now my hypno, my hypno life is quite busy. So I don’t get the opportunity to get out as much as I would like.

Speaker 1 (30m 6s): It sounds like you live in a great part of the world to do all that.

Speaker 2 (30m 10s): I do. I do. I’m really blessed. I’m very fortunate. I live in a wonderful place. Yeah. And I enjoy it very much

Speaker 1 (30m 18s): Except for the fires.

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): Except for the fires I could do without that. Yeah. Take a sip, sip of tea from my lungs.

Speaker 1 (30m 26s): Yeah, exactly. So what are your future goals?

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): Well, I’m really enjoying what I’m doing with the creativity of erotic hypnosis recordings. And I love working with clients online. But at some point in time in my future, I don’t know exactly when that timeframe would be. I’d like to create lessons to teach mistresses the art of transient their subjects. I really get turned on working with a prodo.

So she’s got a sub. I hypnotize that guy. I put all sorts of stuff into his mind and she gets to play with it. Triggers trigger is just a clue as to a reaction that’s been put into your subconscious mind, like a snap of my fingers. So I just really enjoy the aspect of teaching others other doms, how to use hypnosis in their personal sessions with their clients.

So I, at some point in time before I leave the profession, I’m going to, to put something like that together, pass on the knowledge that I’ve gained through the years.

Speaker 1 (31m 41s): Sounds, sounds like a great idea.

Speaker 2 (31m 43s): It’s one of those things that really turns me on. In fact, I’ve got a client next week, of course I will be there virtually, but it will be a twosome with his real, for lack of a better term, real life dom. He’ll be there in person and then I’ll be skyping in.

Speaker 1 (32m 2s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (32m 3s): I’m really looking forward to it too.

Speaker 1 (32m 5s): Yeah. Kind of a threesome

Speaker 2 (32m 7s): It, it is a threesome.

Speaker 1 (32m 11s): So you, so you do work both in-person and online?

Speaker 2 (32m 15s): I do. When I can. I’ve done in-person work when I’ve been in England and London, but I live rurally, so there’s no place close by that I can do live sessions. I’m not opposed to live sessions at all. They’re a great deal of fun. Right. But it’s two and a half hours to the bay.

Speaker 1 (32m 34s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32m 34s): And that’s just too far. It would be far too expensive for anybody to be able to, to do that anyway.

Speaker 1 (32m 40s): Yeah. They’d have to pay for your travel time.

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): Absolutely. Yeah. That would be a full day. And I wouldn’t be a very happy camper.

Speaker 1 (32m 47s): I just, yeah. That, that drive doesn’t make me, that drive doesn’t make me happy either.

Speaker 2 (32m 51s): That drive makes me really crabby. I don’t have to do that anymore. I did in my past life. I don’t now.

Speaker 1 (32m 57s): Yeah. Makes

Speaker 2 (32m 59s): Sense. But it’s easy enough just to connect with people online. Yes. Because after three or four minutes your eyes are gonna be closed and you’re gonna be knocked out shortly thereafter. You’re gonna be in deep trance. So why pay all of the extra money for me to come to you and hypnotize you when it’s a whole lot less expensive and easier for both of us if we just do it online?

Speaker 1 (33m 23s): By the way, is it harder to get somebody under on, you know, virtually as opposed to in person?

Speaker 2 (33m 29s): Not at all. No. It really isn’t. I like to see my hypnotherapy clients live because I can perceive things that are going on with them by being in the room with them. Right. And I think I kind of have that sixth sense a little bit with online clients too, but as long as I’m able to watch them and watch how they react, right. I can, you know, just twist and Bob Weave punch, do the things I need to do just watching their face.

So now it’s, it’s easy enough to do.

Speaker 1 (34m 5s): So where does one find you?

Speaker 2 (34m 7s): Well, as you said in your most eloquent introduction, thank you Di

Speaker 1 (34m 12s): Doll. I tried.

Speaker 2 (34m 14s): That was great. I’m gonna steal it. Thank

Speaker 1 (34m 16s): You.

Speaker 2 (34m 17s): I have several websites. My primary website is erotic hypnosis for men.com. Now that one’s new, it’s only been active for about a year. Yeah. My other site is my hypnotic domain.com and that’s where I put all of my older recordings. They’re all $9 and 95 cents. There you go. So if people, anybody wants to go experiment, there’s some free sessions there too. So if you’ve got a curiosity about erotic hypnosis, but you’re not ready to spend any money, there’s many resources that you can go to.

Most erotic hypnotists have free sessions so that you can try them. Of course, we wanna hook you and get you back to buy more or to have online sessions. Yep. And then I have a fan site, which I just started not too long ago. Fan sites are a lot of work. Hmm. At loyal fans. Right. Dot com slash mistress Carroll. I also have a website, mistress carroll.com. But it is severely neglected. Hmm. And I just, I want to keep it active cuz I’ll, that’s where I keep all my chloroform recordings, because credit cards don’t like forced in talks.

And there’s, there’s, there’s only one place. I mean, you can’t even clips for sale Night flirt, none of those places. Right. Will let you do a chloroform recording, which can be a whole lot of fun for those who like them. Yeah. So Mr carol.com is where you find

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): That, that’s sort of thing. That’s, that’s our credit card companies are, they’re, yes. Very, very tight with that stuff.

Speaker 2 (35m 50s): And it’s very difficult for hypnotists in that world. Luckily, we still have a, a few resources, but, and you’ve gotta be really careful with what you offer and how you go about your approach.

Speaker 1 (36m 4s): Right.

Speaker 2 (36m 5s): You wanna keep your credit card processing companies happy. So I’m very, very careful with what I do. Yeah. And I stay within their guidelines because I would like to keep this up.

Speaker 1 (36m 17s): What, what advice would you have for someone who wants to get into erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (36m 23s): Well, as a listener, I would say figure out what it is you enjoy. There’s lots of resources on the internet. All you have to do is Google it, many, many good content creators and just go have some fun and, and go shopping and look around and try different things out. You want to use reputable content creators because as I said earlier, it is your subconscious mind. Right. And that’s not something you wanna share with just anybody.

Speaker 1 (36m 51s): Right.

Speaker 2 (36m 52s): You can’t use hypnosis to make you do what you don’t wanna do. But if your line is blurred, maybe you’ll open your wallet where you didn’t want to open your wallet. And as far as those who would like to create hypnosis, yes, there are a lot of good books on Amazon. There’s a lot of good books on hypnotherapy, which is also a good resource. Once you learn how to hypnotize, then you can take your skills and modify them and

Speaker 1 (37m 20s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (37m 20s): Learn the sexual side of it too. That’s a blast to play with your partner. Learning hypnosis and adding it to the things that you do intimately has a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (37m 32s): Yeah. Doesn’t hypnosis itself take some schooling?

Speaker 2 (37m 37s): It does, but it’s not something that you would think would take a lot of schooling because there are a lot of resources on the internet that you can go to and learn the basics. What is induction, what is a deepener, what is the, basically the guts of your session and the awakener. And learn different types of each of those and try them out on people.

Speaker 1 (38m 5s): Right.

Speaker 2 (38m 6s): Gain confidence, learn more, gain more confidence, learn more. And pretty soon you’re studying up a shop on the internet.

Speaker 1 (38m 13s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): Like somebody I know.

Speaker 1 (38m 17s): So what do you want others to know about erotic hypnosis?

Speaker 2 (38m 21s): Erotic hypnosis can allow you to experience things that you might not be able to experience live due to finances, inhibitions. Maybe you’ve got a, a fetish or something, a fantasy role play that you’d really like to try. There’s a couple of things that I’m just not into like a bdl. The the adult baby stuff I’m not into are fdo. There are a lot of people out there doing a lot of different things that might connect with you.

You need to establish that rapport and trust that I spoke of earlier so that you do drift off into trance, which is just an altered state. Right. And allow yourself to let go and enjoy the experience. Because once you’re in your subconscious mind, it opens things to let you see and feel and experience on a totally unique level. So I can push buttons mentally and create physical sensations in you, but that’s just because you’re allowing those things to happen.

You want them to happen, therefore it is happening.

Speaker 1 (39m 30s): Okay. So the time has come that we’ve all been waiting for Mr. Scar. You’re gonna do a few minutes of trance with myself and our audience, so take it away.

Speaker 2 (39m 42s): All right. Well, here, you don’t have some music. Music, okay, sure. Have you ever been hypnotized before?

Speaker 1 (39m 48s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (39m 49s): Okay. Oh, how did, yeah, just my, was that too loud?

Speaker 1 (39m 56s): No, it’s fine.

Speaker 2 (39m 57s): All right. Here’s a little music with the little binaural beats in it to help you to drift off into trance. A little metronome.

Speaker 1 (40m 5s): So, no, I can’t hear it.

Speaker 2 (40m 7s): You can’t hear the music?

Speaker 1 (40m 8s): No.

Speaker 2 (40m 9s): Really? This damn thing. How’s that?

Speaker 1 (40m 13s): Yeah, now I hear it.

Speaker 2 (40m 14s): Okay, good. All right. When you’re ready to be hypnotized, just allow your eyes to close. And I want you to take a big, deep breath. As you breathe in, I want you to think about breathing in some calm energy. And as you breathe out, releasing any stress or tension that you might be holding within you. As I spoke earlier, hypnosis is increased relaxation, focused attention on the speaker, decreased awareness of everything around you and increased suggestibility.

So with most newcomers, I like to do a progressive relaxation induction. And what that is, is that I’m going to mention various parts of your body, and it’s like my voice is relaxing energy that just seeps into those spaces. Creating a deep sense of relaxation as your mind begins to clear an empty, just focusing on the sound of my voice, just enjoying how it feels to become deeply relaxed.

Now I want you to think about the top of your head, just the top, and just let my voice seep on end. Creating a sense of deepening relaxation just on the top, as it begins to spread down your head, down into your temples and your forehead, your nose, your cheek, your chins, your chins, your chin. Allowing your head to become very deeply relaxed, flowing down into the muscles of your neck.

Your neck has to hold up your heavy head all day long. Just let it relax. That’s it. Down into your shoulders that have to do all that heavy lifting all the time, just let them become loose, melty as it flows down into the big muscles of your arms, slowing down your arms into your elbows, your forearms, your wrists, your hands that’s gently flowing out the tips of your fingers. Now think about those melty shoulders again as that wonderful feeling just flows down into your upper back, your chest back and stomach down into your hips.

Feels so good to relax like this, to just let go. To just become loose and limp all over, down into the big muscles of your legs, knees, shins, and calves, ankles. As you let that wonderful sense of deep relaxation, just flow out the tips of your toes. Now your entire body becoming deeply relaxed as your mind slows down on its way to becoming clear and quiet, focused on my voice, listening to my voice.

Each word I say to you now, creating a deeper sense of relaxation and quietness inside of you. In fact, when I say the word deeper, it’s like a, just press a button inside of your mind that sweeps everything away from it. Your body continues to relax deeply, drifting deeper and deeper. It feels so good to let it all go.

It feels so good to become this deeply relaxed as you just listen to the sound of my voice. Nothing else you have to do. Just listen, breathe, and relax. Even deep performing. Now I’m going to count you down, down into TRAs. And it feels so good to be there because you’ll be even more deeply relaxed. I’m going to count from five down to zero. And when I say zero, you know you’ll be in a wonderful state of hypnosis, a warm, soft, gentle, trans feeling.

So God, bye. Relax more deeply with me now. Let go. Let go of everything and just enjoy becoming so deeply relaxed, listening to my voice. Nothing else you have to do. Four, drifting deeper and deeper feeling good. Because the deeper you fall, the better you feel. And you’re feeling really good. Now, let go more drift down with me now.

Three, each number taking you deeper down. And it feels so good to just surrender to it, to just follow me, follow my voice down deeper and deeper down. So relaxed, carefree, and empty, mind quiet. Two, even deeper now. Good. Just like that. Even deeper now, one feel so good to let it all go. And in just a moment, I’m going to say the number zero and snap my fingers and saylee and you’ll drift into trance.

And right afterward, I’ll wake you again. As I say, zero. And that’s it. That’s all there is. Drifting down, enjoying how it feels to just float on my voice. Nothing but my voice. Feels good to be quiet, empty. Nothing to do, nothing to think about. And in just a moment, I’m going to bring you out of trans. I’m going to count to three from one to three. And when I say three, you’ll come back out feeling refreshed, comfortable and calm.

Relaxed, curious about hypnosis, wanting to learn more. Ready, 1, 2, 3, all the way out now. Waking, waking, getting your mind back, feeling deeply relaxed, comfortable and calm, feeling God. Hi Bruce.

Speaker 1 (46m 16s): Hello.

Speaker 2 (46m 18s): So that’s that. You had to do it quickly, but that’s a little, yeah. A little introduction into That’s

Speaker 1 (46m 24s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (46m 25s): Hypnosis itself. Yeah. And of course, depending whether you’re going to the right side, left side, erotic, hypnosis, there’s many different techniques that you can use in different situations. And sometimes, like today, when I was working with a client, I combined them, but I’ve worked with him before that way. But I don’t typically do that with, with people. Like I said, I, I keep a, a wall between the two.

Speaker 1 (46m 51s): Yeah, yeah, man, I’m, man, I’m relaxed.

Speaker 2 (46m 56s): Are you good?

Speaker 1 (46m 58s): My like I, my head just kind of kept dropping and everything, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (47m 2s): Yes. That’s why I always recommend either lying down or if you’re in a chair, a chair that’s high enough in the back so you can at least lean your head back.

Speaker 1 (47m 10s): Yeah, I probably should have done that. I probably should have done

Speaker 2 (47m 12s): That. Yeah. It’s deep transl. It could give you an neck a next time. My client today, he uses an airplane pillow, which is a great idea to keep your husband flopping around. Exactly. Because you don’t want that to bring you out.

Speaker 1 (47m 24s): No, exactly. Exactly. That was awesome.

Speaker 2 (47m 27s): Oh, I’m glad you

Speaker 1 (47m 28s): Enjoyed it. Yeah. Mr. Scar, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll have a chance to do this again soon. Oh,

Speaker 0 (47m 37s): I

Speaker 1 (47m 37s): Hope so. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about new ways to monetize your site. Next, eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time. Check services you pay for, like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options. Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch, plus got higher quality hosting in the process.

Again, you can ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost effectively along with this. Make your profit and loss statements show more profit. Increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that. Make sure your p and l statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal expenses you put in. This will cost you money when you sell. It may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you if you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement.

Remember, every dollar in profit increases the value of your website as much as three to four times. This is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars more on their sale just by adjusting the p and l statement to reflect actual business expenses as opposed to a bunch of bs. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Brian Sloan of Auto Blow.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Mistress Carol. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.