Adult Site Broker Talk Episode 150 with Lianne Young

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker, and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week, we'll have alleged Ron Jeremy victim, Lianne Young as our special guest on our 150th episode. At Adult Site Broker, we've doubled our affiliate payouts on ASB Cash.

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With more videos and categories, the site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There's no advertising being done for the site. All of the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic now only $235,000. Now time for this week's interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Leanne Young. Leanne, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 44s): You are most welcome.

Speaker 1 (2m 46s): Now, Leanne is one of the UK's leading advisors on adult entertainment, sex and relationships. She started her mainstream career in 2002, appearing on shows such as the Jeremy Kyle Show, the Tricia Goddard Show, how to Have Sex After Marriage, and several other mainstream productions as a sex and relationships advisor and porn industry expert. She's additionally known for covering events such as avn, ex Biz Prowler Awards, and other adult events around a variety of lifestyles and the adult industries.

Leanne had an illustrious career as an adult actress in the US after being recruited to the country from her Native England. She was known as the porn queen of the uk. During her time in America, she was allegedly attacked by Ron Jeremy at a nightclub party in West Hollywood. In 2000, she waived her rights to staying anonymous and was one of the 20 women who have accused Jeremy of rape and sexual assault. She was asked by the L A P D to come to LA and she gave evidence to a grand jury.

Recently, of course, Jeremy has been deemed unable to stand trial because of dementia, and now he's being committed to a mental institution. After her ordeal, Leanne became a counselor helping others who have suffered sexual violence, working a lot with sex workers worldwide. Leanne, first of all, I am just so sorry about of all the horrible things you've had to experience due to this monster. Now I've seen you quoted on many occasions about the pain this experience has brought back for you.

What did you go through having to testify to the grand jury?

Speaker 2 (4m 30s): Well, Bruce, it's been one hell of a journey. Well, first of all, you know, I, I was contacted by the lap D after I had spoken, spoken to the LA Times, right? And from that moment, you, you know, they, they interviewed me and then they asked me about what happened. I told them, they asked if there was witnesses. I said, yes. They went and, you know, interviewed those witnesses. And about three weeks later they contacted me and said he'd been formally charged with my rape. And for me, it, that was, you know, your whole world turns upside down.

It's something you just don't expect, right? And then of course we had covid, but I still had to travel in person to give evidence at the grand jury. And now I've never covered a grand jury before. So I'd gone through a lot of stress with this change in my whole life. And then I'm flown by the American government and under protection from the American government. And when I say protection, I was under 24-hour protection from the minute I got on that flight until the minute I left the usa it was wow, very horrendous.

I sleeping in the same hotel as you next door changing shift. And there's nothing it can mentally, mentally impair you. For a grand jury mean that is, it was like 20 plus jurors asking you very intimate questions. And you know, you're, I mean, as you know, you know, in England we pronounce words very differently to the US and I was getting very, I was getting told, please speak yes or no, not yet. But it was very, very, very traumatic experience because thought it was, I did not know what to expect.

I was under a lot of nervous tension. I was, you know, I'd had no sleep. I was tired. Sure. And, you know, to be taken to the courtroom in the morning, very fortunate, they did have a, like a therapy dog, and the dog really calms you down. So that was good.

Speaker 1 (6m 25s): Oh, that's good.

Speaker 2 (6m 26s): Yeah, that was really good. And we were put in a private room away from everybody else, but actually going into the courtroom is so intimidating and daunting, and it was the most traumatic experiences I've ever gone through. You know, they had Ron's picture on the screen while asking me questions, and it's almost like you are, you're reliving everything all over again. And I managed to get through the questions, and then afterwards they're allowed to ask you to elaborate on many questions, which I did.

I was so glad. I mean, I, I, I absolutely broke down and sobbed my heart the minute I walked out of the actual jury room.

Speaker 1 (7m 5s): I'm sure

Speaker 2 (7m 6s): It was absolutely horrendous. And you're not allowed to speak to anybody, so to say, it was one of the most overwhelming experiences I've had in my life, would not be underestimating it.

Speaker 1 (7m 17s): And you couldn't talk to anybody, so you really couldn't pour your heart out, which has gotta be the worst part.

Speaker 2 (7m 24s): Yeah. I mean, I'm, you know, it, for the whole couple of years I wasn't allowed to talk to anybody. I was having therapy via the Met Police, another outreach department. It said, you can't go through this without talking to anybody, so we're giving you a counselor. Well, that's good. That, yeah, that really, really helped me because I was having nightmares and it's in your head every single day. Yeah. You're reliving that encounter and that assault every single minute. And yeah, it completely got the better of me at one stage.

Speaker 1 (7m 55s): Oh, I'm sure. So when he was deemed unfit to stand trial, what was your reaction?

Speaker 2 (8m 3s): I was absolutely gutted because obviously we'd been pulled in to give evidence and, you know, been really put through the mill. And then to be told that he wasn't fit to stand trial with an absolute Oh my stomach. It it, if it had been punched so hard. Yeah. And when the public get to hear something, we hear about it before it goes public. So again, we act to suffer in silence. And I went through several emotions. I was really angry because if they knew when they arrested him that there may be some mental condition, why drag us through that before finding out if he had that's capacity.

You know, to have a victim completely have to relive their experience for a couple of years. Mine, because he kept delay in the trial and using every different excuse, you know? Yes, yes. There is. So at one stage I do feel that, that he was mentally capa capable of standing trial and he delayed that. And I think that it was almost like he had the upper hand again. And it was devastating. Absolutely devastating.

Speaker 1 (9m 9s): And I'm sure all the delays also had to be difficult.

Speaker 2 (9m 13s): Oh my God. From delay to delay, just, you know, for the, for a couple of days beforehand waiting to find out you don't sleep and it's in your brain 24 7 and you can't talk to anybody. And yeah. So you, it's almost like being a victim all over again, again and again and again and you know, and you've got a read online, other people's opinions, which Sure. It's very, you know, so you're being attacked online. I've had inbox messages attacking me online. Nice. It, it, yeah.

People, they're really sick. And it's like, I'm, I'm one of those people that I care more about my character than my reputation. If people have a bad image of me because I've come forward, then I'm really don't care. Welcome. Pretty much in, in flight with, yeah. Fuck 'em.

Speaker 1 (9m 58s): Yeah. And I remember the delays and it got to the point where, not for you, but it got to the point for a lot of people where it almost became a joke. Like, what's the delay gonna be about this time? You know,

Speaker 2 (10m 12s): It was, it was more like a, it became a circus act. That's how it felt. And it kind of felt that I was just, oh, I mean, it's hard to put into words. Yeah. We, I felt like a porn in their game in the end, because we kept getting delayed and delayed and delayed. And, and I just, you know, it, it's hard to go through. A case is a few years old and, and many people say, oh, why didn't she come forward 20 years ago? And we would have, but we would, we were convinced that we would not be listened to. And we were told that nobody would listen to us. And that he had, you know, he had pleas on the inside.

And so, you know, nobody was gonna believe us because we had done adult movies ourselves. So in a way it was almost like we got told we deserved it.

Speaker 1 (10m 52s): So Jeremy's like the Harvey Weinstein of porn, they're both horrible creatures. But unfortunately Jeremy hasn't gotten the wrath of a law like Weinstein has. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (11m 8s): Oh, you know, I think they left it way too late. Mean everybody knows that Ron's been poured in by the police over many decades on different encounters. And I just think that because he was a household name, whereas Weinstein was, you know, he was somewhat of a household name, but behind the camera, whereas Jeremy was in the camera, he, he was popular, he was a comic, he could laugh about himself and he let other people laugh about him. And I think, and I think that this was the greatest performance of his life, delay in delay in this case, and making out that he was innocent.

And I just, I think that it just got dragged along for so long that he was an un unable to stand trial. Yeah. Whether we find out whether this is his, his most famous acting role, or whether he will be proved to be totally unfit. Yeah. We have, we have. Cause the court case doesn't end for us because no, every, every f month he's gonna be assessed and then we get told the outcome. So for us, we literally

Speaker 1 (12m 7s): Yeah. Never ends.

Speaker 2 (12m 8s): It never ends for us. And I think, you know, with the Weinstein case, he was so prolific in Hollywood as a mainstream star that they had to do something right. And they had to do it quick. Yeah. And with the Ron case, they, you know, sometimes I think to myself, it's so unfair that Vaughn has not had the same treatment as Weinstein, because he should have. Yeah. You know, he is put in a mental hospital and I hope that is just like one flew away with a cookie nest. And I do hope.

Speaker 1 (12m 37s): Exactly, exactly. I hope he gets, I hope he gets the equivalent of Nurse Ratchet.

Speaker 2 (12m 43s): Absolutely. So do I. Oh, worse. Oh, am we? And there's already been articles saying that he's been abusing nurses. Well, he is in hospital, been, this is his character.

Speaker 1 (12m 53s): Me. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (12m 53s): Unfortunately, his character was allowed to get away with too much. And I, yep. There, there is no reason why he got treated differently. I think it was just timing.

Speaker 1 (13m 3s): Well, I got to meet him only once. And disgusting human being. That's all I could say. I was kind of disgusted at the time. I was just like, anyway. Yeah, it's disgusting. Yeah, very much so. So talk about, if you would, the incident itself, I'm going to assume you had worked with a guy before. Can you talk about what ha about what happened that night?

Speaker 2 (13m 27s): Yes. I'm more than happy to, I will make something clear. First. I have never worked with Ron Jeremy. Okay. There was free things. I followed Free Wars, I followed for myself in pornography. Never worked with anybody underage, never worked with animals and never worked with Ron Jerry. And that was my free pointers. Well,

Speaker 1 (13m 48s): The two, the last two, the last two were kind of one and the same, wouldn't you say? Animals and

Speaker 2 (13m 52s): Ab Yeah, animals and one definitely the, oh gosh, they, they do, they make, it makes me sick. Yeah. So, so for me, he had tried to approach me in that in a rainbow room sometimes before, and invited me to a party and I made my excuses to get out. And then he said, oh, he'd love me to work for his company. And I never did. And I, I, I felt that on that first instance, I'd met him in the rainbow room that got introduced to him that he was unto towards. And I'd hear rumor about him. So I was very good at looking after my own safety.

However, there was a Halloween event at the House of Blues. And, you know, there was a space specifically for the adult staff, the other own private area. And I literally had my back turned. I had not seen Ron in that room before then. I'd had my backs turned, I was stood there with Alana Evans and a former housemate. And I was pushed over the table from behind out of complete, out of nowhere. And I was pushed onto the table and his penis was already erect. He put it in me and I fought myself off.

He had literally come out from a dark place with intention to do what he did.

Speaker 1 (15m 1s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (15m 2s): Wow. And when you are in that situation, it was almost like your automatic reaction is to fight. Yeah. And I slapped him as I managed to fight him off, I slipped, slapped him around the face and I said, how fucking dare you? And he had no expression and he just disappeared into the dark room again. And people around me, you know, there were, there were many people who saw it. Yeah. And it was only Ilana Evans who really said she could see the state of me. Cuz I was, I was screaming. And then I started crying and she goes, come on, we need to get outside.

Let's go and have a stick around.

Speaker 1 (15m 34s): It doesn't surprise me that it was Lana. I, I finally met her at the la ex biz by the way.

Speaker 2 (15m 40s): Oh, brilliant.

Speaker 1 (15m 41s): Very nice. She's very, she's very, very nice trying to get her, trying to get her on this, on this program. She said she would. So you might wanna put in a good word

Speaker 2 (15m 51s): Of Of course I will. I mean, that girl's been a complete ally for me. She also testified for me in the court case. Good. So sh she had to give evidence of the grand jury as well. And

Speaker 1 (16m 2s): Yeah. So I'm sorry you were telling the, you were, you were telling the story? No,

Speaker 2 (16m 5s): It, it's co you know, in, you know, I said to Alana at the time and a few ever, I said, you know, what do I do? There goes, well there's no point going to the police cuz he has insider police officer friends and nobody would believe you because you'd done porn in it. And, and number three, you're not American, you're English. So they really won't care. And we were made to feel that we were worthless, that we could have report it.

Speaker 1 (16m 27s): Wonderful.

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): Yeah. It was almost like, well that's Ron, that's how you accept him. And no, I don't accept that behavior. He should have been stopped many, many, many years ago.

Speaker 1 (16m 36s): Yeah. And unfortunately he's still not officially stopped,

Speaker 2 (16m 40s): So. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (16m 42s): He was famous for sexually abusing and violating women on set for a very long time. Did you ever experience any of that in those days from any other male performer?

Speaker 2 (16m 56s): Yes. There was many times that I was on set and there was girls supposed to be doing solo shoots and then the director would be trying saying, oh, can I just put my hand there? Can I put my hand there? And these girls were really young and new to the industry. And I'd be like, no, he'd not allowed to. You're doing a solo set. Do not let him. Right. Yeah. And they used to get mad at me and I'm like, no, sorry, you've booked the girl for a solo set. She's 18 years old, she's new and you are overstepping the mark. And that's abuse. Yeah. Yeah. And there was people in the UK as well that would say, say to myself when I was very new and naive, oh, please do this shoot for me.

And although I don't pay you up front, you'll get profits of the share and stuff. It's a load of crap. A load of crap. I, I had to learn the hard way, but I have witnessed so much abuse going on set when somebody said no. And then the performers carried on and there's a lot of coercion on set because there was many times that I was booked out by a former agent in the UK to do just a basic boy girl set and you get to set. And they were like, oh no, it's an anal set. And I'm like, well, I don't do that. And they'd be like, they'd be like, well you're gonna have to cover water costs this set if you're not gonna do that cuz we booked you for this.

And you know, there it was terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. And you were, we were persuaded.

Speaker 1 (18m 16s): So did, so I mean, did you do it or did you just leave

Speaker 2 (18m 19s): On a couple occasions I'd done it because I felt, I was told if I did, if I didn't do it, I would never bother work in the industry again. I was naive. I believed them. I absolutely believed them. And looking back now, you know, at the time I was like, oh my God, you know, I'm trying to do this to make a name for myself and Sure. You know, the financial awards and I got coerced into doing stuff that I really didn't want to Completely. It was, it's really embarrassing to actually say that now, but it happens and it is always happening and it's not stopping.

Speaker 1 (18m 53s): Hmm, absolutely. And it's interesting that you're, you're such good friends with Atlanta because she's right there fighting for performers rights and it's, it's, it's quite unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (19m 6s): Absolutely mean the stuff that, you know, I'm a counselor for the industry, so I get to hear a lot of stuff that goes on. Sure. I'll tell you what's not well known in the industry is what is consent, what is coercion, what is the boundaries? And they need to be discussed more because there's a lot of people entering in this industry and not understanding what sexual abuse is. I mean, people seem to think to be raped, you have to be raped by a penis, by a man held down against your will. That's not the case. A man could, you could be digitally raped.

Yep. You could. Yeah. And you could be, you can have penetrated rape or, or rape and people, there more education needs to be done inside the industry and out.

Speaker 1 (19m 48s): Yeah. It's unfortunately, it's still a, a societal problem that women really don't know their rights and they don't know what to do and where to turn. And in the industry, I think that Atlanta's organization's doing a really good job of promoting themselves and letting people know that, hey, you don't have to take this and that's the way it should be Since, since Me Too and since Ron Jeremy, which I think goes along with me too.

That certainly that was the adult's answer to me too. Adult industry's answer to me too. It's, it's a whole new ball game. At least it should be.

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): Well absolutely mean in two Franks and 18 was when the real me too movement of the Edo industry started. And, and it's still continuing and I think more noise needs to be made. Yeah. From credit. And I, and I do believe that porn companies, you know, should give out some advice directly to performers. And I think that they need to, they need to take some more responsibility because stuff is still happening on set. Yeah. And Alan, Alan is fam fabulous raising her voice, you know, getting people to hear it.

And I stand by Alana and APAC and I always will. We need more unions like that around the world.

Speaker 1 (21m 5s): Oh we do. We need more support for, for APAC as well. I did an interview recently with Todd Spates of Yanks Cash and it was interesting because what they were doing 20 years ago in terms of exactly what is expected of the scene, putting it on paper and having the model sign it and the, and the producer sign it. What's consent? You know, what are you consenting to? They started that 20 years ago.

And now because of Ron, Jeremy and because of other things that have happened, it's really becoming the industry norm to have that kind of thing. And I think that's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (21m 47s): It is. I mean, on the APAC website they have an actual consent form of what you will we what? And it's called the Bens list. And it's what you will and will not do. And every performer should be filling that in and every producer should be offering that form to actors and actresses. There's Yeah. You know, in any job you go to, you have to follow policy and procedures Yep. And guidelines. And there's no reason for the porn industry not to have their own, and it needs to be brought into the workplace.

Speaker 1 (22m 17s): Yeah. And I mean, every website has terms and conditions. Well, they need to have that for their performers.

Speaker 2 (22m 23s): Absolutely. There's, there's just because it's, you know, working for another company, they have to understand it, that company still have the duty of care to the performer. And they have, they should be having liability insurance because one thing I do know is that many porn producers do not have insurance.

Speaker 1 (22m 41s): Oh, sure.

Speaker 2 (22m 42s): And that needs to change because individuals are working as self-employed in this industry, are also not getting their self covered with public liability. And they should

Speaker 1 (22m 52s): Oh yeah, definitely. And health insurance.

Speaker 2 (22m 55s): And health insurance, absolutely. And what people don't understand is under that public liability, it will also cover you for legal and that will help you bring a case against somebody if something happens. Right.

Speaker 1 (23m 7s): Because in the United States, unlike, you know, grape Britain, there is no national healthcare. And Well, I'm 65 now, so I get it, but that's because I'm old.

Speaker 2 (23m 20s): I don't think 65 is old.

Speaker 1 (23m 22s): No, I don't either, but some days don't. A don't don't tell me that. Anyway. So do you believe there are other Ron Jeremy's out there who should be brought to justice?

Speaker 2 (23m 35s): Absolutely. There are loaves out there. You know, there's, there's companies like legal porno in the, in Europe. I have had to pick up the pieces of the abuse that one girl suffered so bad that she, she really had to have serious medical attention and there was no responsibility. So do I think that companies or individuals, yes. They aha. Are Ron Jeremy still out there getting away with everything and ones that take their character outside of the work set and they, they, unfortunately, what has happened is that some people stay in character for so long, it becomes their normal.

Speaker 1 (24m 17s): Yeah. It's kinda like N F L players who their job is to commit violence on the field. And unfortunately a lot of those guys stay in their professional character in their personal lives. I just read today about another N F L player who is being faced with an abuse charge. Actually it wasn't a, an abuse charge against a woman. I think it was just a number of players in Las Vegas who beat up some people.

And it's really the same thing in porn, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (24m 50s): Absolutely. Without a shadow of a doubt. It is exactly the same thing. Sure. And it needs to, it needs to stop and it needs to stop fast. Personally, I'm, I'm in a position where I think the whole industry needs to be cleaned up. It really does. And I mean it, the thing is with it in England is a, there is no legal requirement to do many things, which, you know, you're not required, it's not treated as a professional workplace, therefore it's hard to monitor.

Speaker 1 (25m 21s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 21s): You know, I know people that were doing porn at 17 years old and the producers knew they were 17 years old.

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): Oh, that's terrible.

Speaker 2 (25m 28s): Yeah. And so, so I, I am total belief that there needs to be some structure put around people that participate and produce pornography.

Speaker 1 (25m 37s): Well, if you do that in the states and you get caught, you're in big trouble.

Speaker 2 (25m 41s): Oh my God. Absolutely. I mean, you know, you've had your

Speaker 1 (25m 44s): As it should be.

Speaker 2 (25m 45s): Yeah. And, and absolutely. I mean, I'm, I'm in, I'm I'm inclined to say the age limit does need to be raised.

Speaker 1 (25m 52s): Yeah. I think it, I think I agree with you and I was just thinking about that, that in adult, we probably should be looking at 21 because just the age of consent should not necessarily be the, the age that they should be able to shoot in adult

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): Completely. And the reason why that is, is they're not mature enough and their brains aren't developed enough to understand the long-term implications. Yeah. And while the brain is still developing, acting on certain situations can leave you with feelings of shame, guilt, depression, anxiety. And I think that, I think the age should be up to 21.

Speaker 1 (26m 30s): It makes perfect sense. It really does. It, it certainly does. So the only possible good news I can think of out of the entire run Jeremy's story is that porn us finally started to clean up its act on set. Now, certainly not all male performers, as you just alluded to, did the things he did, but there are no doubt a decent amount of it going on besides with Jeremy. I mean, how does that make you feel?

Speaker 2 (26m 55s): You know, I mean, there is some relief that things are getting done and, but I, there's still such a long way to go because you've also got some guys from the industry who seem to think that, you know, if it's not broken, don't fix it. But this industry's not broken for decades. There's many things, it's broken about the industry and yes, there are some things and some people contributing to helping the porn industry clean up exacts. But there is such a long way to go and it needs to be a participation of all people involved.

Speaker 1 (27m 28s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27m 29s): Cause this, it's gonna keep going on, otherwise there's some

Speaker 1 (27m 32s): Yeah. Nothing will change. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27m 33s): Nothing will change. And unfortunately old habits die hard or they don't die at all.

Speaker 1 (27m 39s): Yeah, exactly. Because what will happen is one generation, a performer will pass these habits down to the next generation of performer and the bad actors, quote unquote, will still be there.

Speaker 2 (27m 53s): Yeah. I mean, there's so many things that need to be cleaned up. And it's not just on the industry. I mean our, I'll mention our national health service in the UK now, for people to get their STI certificates to be able to participate in pornography, they're getting them free of charge from our National health service. Which to which to me is crazy because, you know, let's be realistic. Not everybody in porn pays taxing national insurance and, and public health money should be used for public health money. Not, not for your profession. Every other person that, you know, it's required to be self-employed, have to have their own insurance.

But in pornography they don't. But they want to get treated the same. You know, if you want to have a health check to take part in your employment, don't rely on it to be free. You have to invest in yourself just like insurance. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 41s): No, absolutely. There just need to be, I mean, insurance is something that there's not an a lot of, but unfortunately I go to the trade shows and I don't see insurance people there. And boy, I think it's an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (28m 55s): I think it's a big opportunity. I mean, I'm, I'm a counselor and I have to have insurance to be able to counsel people and we have to have like a 10 million public liability stuff. And that's just talking to somebody. So if you're actually having sex with somebody, get some public liability insurance if it's for work.

Speaker 1 (29m 10s): Yeah,

Speaker 2 (29m 10s): Absolutely. So that, so that's my belief is, you know, if you decide to take on this work, be aware of the consequences. Right. You know, there, there are short-term rewards, financially you'll be popular. You, you know, you get to sexually experiment, but also you have to think about the long term implications and you need to be covered.

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): No, you absolutely, you do. You absolutely do. So

Speaker 2 (29m 34s): Yeah,

Speaker 1 (29m 34s): You work with performers as a counselor in the uk what kinds of challenges do you run into on a daily basis?

Speaker 2 (29m 42s): Oh my God. The backstabbing of the industry. There's a lot of that going on. It is unbelief for lack of pay because some comp, some people have worked for, you know, for such companies and then they don't get paid. I mean, in my day, we won't work unless a check was on the table. Good. You know, that's what we've done. But a lot of these performers, yeah, they're, they're getting, they're worried so much about their reputation and not their character. Now, for me, you've never put your reputation before your character because why worry about what other people say and not worry about what you think of yourself.

And this is a lot of stuff I cover on quite a lot on actually a daily basis as I have to reassure performers. It, it doesn't matter what other people think of them, it's about how they are mentally themselves and look at themselves. Because if you worry about your reputation and not your character, your, your, it's gonna be a dark journey.

Speaker 1 (30m 36s): I, I understand. Definitely. So what changes do you think the adult industry still needs to make when it comes to how performers are treated?

Speaker 2 (30m 46s): Well? Treated by who? People in the industry or people outside the industry? Both. Okay. So with the industry that, you know, they are just not another byproduct to use as you wish. So PR producers should be laying out the pros and cons of taking on such a job. And I think, again, there's needs to be more education on reputation versus character. Yes. And I think that the, those, you know, I'm always available to adult performers and any kind of sex worker that feel that they are losing their identity within the porn industry.

And apac and apac, you know, they inform models that they are there to help them. And we are. And sometimes it is about, you know, hearing some home truths that people don't like, but you have to hear them. And I've, what happens to a lot of people in pornography is they think the whole world's against them, but they're not. And that's because people within the industry say, oh, well, once you've done porn, you'll never be good at anything else. Or once you've done porn, other people are gonna judge you. There's no building people up in the industry. It's only knocking 'em down.

And that I, I'm seeing that happen way too often.

Speaker 1 (31m 53s): I haven't heard that, but it's, I I'm sure you're facing it, so in your work. Oh

Speaker 2 (31m 58s): Yeah. And, and that totally needs to change. I mean, I, I just bit the bullet and wasn't worried about my reputation and I knew that I could build on my character, become educated and actually go into mainstream tv, which I did very well. Yeah. I've now, you know, written an education program on the mist and reality of porn and you know, I'm given that massive talk, oh, Monday afternoon, but I go through it today. Things need to be done from each side. Now if you're in the porn industry, you seem to think you're being attacked all the time. That's not, that's not the case. Now with the two age verification, it was online that was not directed just at the porn industry that was directed at all over 18 services like buying alcohol online.

Right. Or getting over 18, 18 movies. It may not be porn related buying online games. It wasn't just against porn industry. So they've got to stop looking at theirselves to

Speaker 1 (32m 47s): Speak. Well, and I will tell you one thing in the us, the Republicans in Congress and, and the senator definitely going after porn, that is the target.

Speaker 2 (32m 56s): Yeah. I mean I know that in the US it's much different in, in England, they can't actually print that in unless they target all over 18 markets. Got it. And, and they have to treat it fairly, they can't be seen to victimizing one particular industry. But I also think that in England, licensing should be brought in. Whereas if you're gonna produce pornography, you should have to have a license. You know, in America strippers need a license to strip. And then also that, you know, the tax information office have that as well. And then it was seen be seen as more of an legitimate co industry.

That's

Speaker 1 (33m 29s): True. So I haven't heard of any country that does that really.

Speaker 2 (33m 32s): No, they don't. And I, and I, you know, in America, you guys, you know, if you wanna be a stripper, you need a license. In Australia, if you work in a bar, you need to have a license. Interesting. And so I think that anything that is entertaining anything of the adult industry, then that needs to be considered.

Speaker 1 (33m 50s): Yeah. But I mean there's no doubt about it that the religious right is after the adult industry and especially in the United States. It's, it's just really bad.

Speaker 2 (34m 3s): Well, you know, it's, to be honest with you, it's not much different in the uk. There are certain people that want to go after the industry and as other ones are like, look, okay, it's, it's, it's affecting children and it's affecting their reality of what sex is and it's affecting their relationships. That's all very true. But parents need to be educated about pornography and how to discuss it with their children. Just the same they do with alcohol, smoking and accessing violent movies, et cetera. You know, it a cinema to be to watch an 18 film, they're gonna ask you for Id, you know, it's part of the over 18 adult.

Speaker 1 (34m 37s): I mean, I have to tell you, I have to tell you, I have always been in favor of age verification. However, the way that it's being put out by the right wing in the United States is meant to harm us, not necessarily to verify people's ages. So it's really our fault. If we had self-police and come up with our own age verification 10, 15 years ago, like we should have 20 years ago, even then they would have nothing to say.

Absolutely. But unfortunately we did not. So there's also self-regulation that should be done. But the problem is that the companies, they can't agree on anything. So that's the biggest, a

Speaker 2 (35m 22s): Absolutely biggest issue. And when you mentioned self-regulation to some people that are either still in the industry or have been, they're like, oh well we manage ourself. And I'm like, well actually you proved you don't.

Speaker 1 (35m 33s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 34s): Well, you know, yeah. It's proven. And you know, know, people seem to think that the police are against pornography. No they're not. No. They're against trafficking and people forced into it, but they're not against sex work. And I work beside

Speaker 1 (35m 46s): The police. But I mean, but trafficking into pornography is largely a myth.

Speaker 2 (35m 53s): It's totally a myth. Absolutely. And there's no such thing as child pornography because no child can consent to taking part in a purpose of making a movie forever. Adults entertainment. Right. And if you look at an explanation for pornography is too consenting adults. Right. Making pornography for the purpose of entertainment for others. Now a child, a child can't consent to that. So there is no such thing is child pornography.

Speaker 1 (36m 18s): That's a very good point. So since you brought this up, I was gonna ask you about it later. You wrote an education program on the myths and reality of porn, which you're about to present. Tell us about it.

Speaker 2 (36m 32s): Oh my god. So it's called the Ardent Project. So tap and it's about educating not only workplaces because there's a massive rise in people using pornography at work and abuse within like the NHS for one. That's the one, that's the one. It was a violence prevent sexual violence prevention team that asked me to write it. And it does, it talks about the mis, it talks about the myth and the bus because there's a lot of myth about pornography and people don't cover the reality of pornography. People think everybody's abused in pornography.

They're not, everybody thinks a porn performer acts like that in real life. They don't. Of

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): Course.

Speaker 2 (37m 9s): And the viewers need to start understanding that what you see in pornography is not reality. It's a performance. No, it's, it's a, for the purpose of entertainment, nobody goes around shooting. Oh my God. I can't say. Do you

Speaker 1 (37m 20s): Think, yeah. Do you think what you see in Hollywood is real?

Speaker 2 (37m 24s): No. I mean, but some people do. You know,

Speaker 1 (37m 27s): Not not very smart people.

Speaker 2 (37m 29s): Yeah. Well I actually think that on a parent's evening in all scores, parents should be invited to an education program such as what I've written on the list and reality and pornography and how to chat to your children. Absolutely. Because, because what's happening is parents are not chatting to their children then. But they're allowing their children to have unsupervised access on a computer. Yeah. Looking up, looking up materials. Right. Which is not, not for their eyes. Yeah. And the par, the parental responsibility is not there. And I think it's about time that parents actually took on more responsibility rather than

Speaker 1 (38m 3s): Leaving that it's the parents' responsibility. If you have children that are under 18, you are responsible for the media that they consume and

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): Absolutely

Speaker 1 (38m 15s): Not the kids. Okay. Yes. If they can access porn on their phone, that's your fault. If they can access porn on their laptop, that's your fault.

Speaker 2 (38m 24s): Another point I make is that every parent that has a teacher in school, if they look at, look at the contract with that school, the school, the school is legally responsible for their child between their school opening hours. And the parents don't really have much say because they will get fined if their child's not there. Right now I actually sued my son's school because he got attacked at school and they, everybody was like, how did you do that? I said, cuz they had a legal requirement to protect my son. Yeah. So, you know, if, if any of this stuff and which it is happening in scores where people are sharing indecent images, then the score responsible.

So parents need to start suing the scores if it's happening during school hours.

Speaker 1 (39m 7s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (39m 8s): And parents should be taking more responsibility on the education of their children. Because I don't believe that children should be educated in four length in schools about, you know, about pornography. Because I believe that that probably is an overload of information because in schools they need to learn about healthy relationships, coercion and control. Yeah. Now those, those subject matters are covered in my education program. And we do touch on pornography, but it's more, I actually do feel that parents need to take more of a situation hold of it.

And so does school teachers, especially the ones teaching sex education and the counselors within schools. So the program isn't directly aimed at me going to into schools and teaching school childrens, because I don't think that's the answer. I think the answer is for the adults in charge and offering a duty of care to those children to take this on board. Yes, absolutely. But I also do, I also do think just like Hollywood movies, there is a statement on the front of that movie that if you copy this, it's an infringement. Right. And that this movie is intended for over eighteens only for the purpose, for the purpose of entertainment.

Now either porn actresses that are in the movie or porn producers need to start adding that to the online content. Cause that is where children are accessing adult material.

Speaker 1 (40m 28s): Yeah. They're getting it free on, on tube sites for sure. Can people see this presentation online?

Speaker 2 (40m 34s): Not yet because it is been commissioned by the nhs. So as soon as it will be, I will let you know.

Speaker 1 (40m 40s): Okay, sounds good. So with the advent of only fans type sites, the industry has done nothing but grow. And gosh, there's creators making seven figures a month for God's sakes. Do you ever sit there and think maybe you were born too soon.

Speaker 2 (40m 57s): Never did. You know what? Absolutely. We, we have to remember that with the likes of only fans, there are, they have got millions and millions of members Yeah. That have to work twen 24 hours a day to make that kind of money. They lose their identity when they stay in character for that lock. Interesting. And we also got to remember it's only 0.0, probably 1% making that type of money.

Speaker 1 (41m 20s): Oh, I know, I know. It's, it's small, but, but as far as six figures, it's a lot.

Speaker 2 (41m 26s): Yeah, it is a lot. But also, you know, is it worth, you know, I mean obviously I know the whole journey of doing this kind of work and then having to, you know, have relationships after. Right. I don't think I was born too soon actually. I actually was able to participate in pornography when it was real pornography. It was like the golden era. It was fantastic. But, but now the amount of competition and the amount of workload for only fans, you need to be qualified in internet, national marketing, business, accounting, sales, everything.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's not just a case of being a model or a performer anymore. Right. You have to be an all round educated business person to be able to make money in that industry. The competition is enough to send anybody under. You're right. So, no, I, you're right. I, I participated in the industry when it was fun.

Speaker 1 (42m 18s): Okay. So you recently hit a million engagements on Twitter. First of all, I'm jealous. You gotta be excited about that.

Speaker 2 (42m 28s): Oh my god. You know, I was so, I do, you know what, I was actually in shock. I think I was, I was on vacation in Australia at the time because I took my weight to Australia and somebody sent me a test going, you've just gone viral on Twitter. And I said, what? And he goes, yeah, you better get on there. I could not believe it. I was like, Jesus shit. And then all of a sudden I'm being contacted from news people all over the world and I was like, look, I'm on vacation. I can't be bothered to give interviews.

Speaker 1 (42m 55s): That's funny.

Speaker 2 (42m 57s): And between me and you, I didn't even read any of the comments either. So it, it was an absolute fluke, but oh my god. Right. It was, you know, I I can actually say I've, I've been a millionaire for one time in my life.

Speaker 1 (43m 10s): Well, you're pretty damn wellknown around the world. It might not be for necessarily what you want it to be, but a lot of people know who you are at this point. And you know, I think that if nothing else, I would say that your courage in taking on that monster is definitely part of it.

Speaker 2 (43m 35s): Oh, well thank you. I I hope it inspires and helps other people. I really do

Speaker 1 (43m 39s): Because I'm sure it'll,

Speaker 2 (43m 41s): Yeah. I mean, it's not an easy thing to go through. No, but

Speaker 1 (43m 45s): For it inspired me, I gotta tell you.

Speaker 2 (43m 48s): But I, I'll tell you, I'm kind of, you know, I've, I've had, I took a seven week vacation, I've come back with a completely different attitude forward focused. And I needed that because, you know Yeah. When you are, when people are going through something like this, you are in a bubble. You're not allowed to talk to anybody. Yeah. But there is, there is light at the end of the tunnel and I will not be silenced anymore. Good for you. Never. And I'll support anybody else that wants to speak up

Speaker 1 (44m 13s): As you should. So the last time we talked, we talked about some books you were writing. How are those coming along?

Speaker 2 (44m 19s): They are coming along really nice. Thank you. I'm actually in a meeting with a script writer next week. I'm, I'm getting approached by a lot of people to write advice staff and write, write several books. And I, they, they wanna turn my life into the big screen. Wow. You know, they're calling me the Aaron Bov of pornography.

Speaker 1 (44m 38s): Holy shit. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (44m 40s): Yeah, I'm a little bit, I'm very lucky that I'm able to keep my feet family on the ground. Don't will

Speaker 1 (44m 44s): You still, will you, will you still talk to me after the movies released?

Speaker 2 (44m 48s): Oh, of course I will. You

Speaker 1 (44m 49s): You can come,

Speaker 2 (44m 50s): You can come to the red carpet in the previewing.

Speaker 1 (44m 53s): Oh, I'll be there.

Speaker 2 (44m 54s): Yeah. I mean, for me, I've mean, I, I would never change who I am. I'm, I keep my feet on the ground. You know, you're most like, I'm still gonna be in my pajamas by about 6:00 PM and I'm, you know, I've had my taste of Hollywood, I've had my taste of international like fame and it was exhausting. And I

Speaker 1 (45m 13s): Bet,

Speaker 2 (45m 13s): I mean, this time RH is a totally different attitude towards it. You know, I'm not hungry for fame, it's there, but I will use it as an educational chore. Well, I enjoy it. Absolutely. Yes. It would be wrong to do something you don't enjoy. No. So yes, I I will enjoy every, every bit of it. But,

Speaker 1 (45m 29s): Or or what you or what you don't believe in

Speaker 2 (45m 32s): Abso I would never do anything. I didn't believe in God. No. But I've, I think there is time for a female version of Boogie Knight. And I do believe there is a need for a more, you know, the Aaron Brockovich of porn big time needs to be done big time. Absolutely needs to be done. Mean you, I went to see the premiere at the film Festival of the Me Too movement by, you know, covering the Weinstein case. I wasn't that impressed cuz it didn't actually give a input really. So I'm very looking forward to sitting down with, I've got several script writers to sit down with and actually go through stuff.

Yeah. I'm,

Speaker 1 (46m 6s): That's way cool. I wish you well with it, but I know, like everything else, it'll be good. I know it's gonna be very good. So all I ask is you keep me posted and, and let me know what's going on with these, these projects.

Speaker 2 (46m 19s): Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I'm, I'm happy to talk anytime. You're a great interviewer. Thank you. And, and your questions are good.

Speaker 1 (46m 26s): Well thank you very much. I do appreciate it. Well, Leanne, on that note, I'd like to thank you for being back with us again today on Adult Side Broker talk. And I hope we'll get a chance to do this again soon. Like you said.

Speaker 2 (46m 39s): I hope so too. So remember to send me a link, cause I'll put it out on my, put it out on my feeds as

Speaker 1 (46m 44s): Well. And you hear Bernie saying goodbye too.

Speaker 2 (46m 46s): I do. Go say goodbye, Bernie.

Speaker 1 (46m 49s): I'll do that. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about converting traffic and improving the user experience. Make a good offer. If you're selling something and the offer isn't good, you won't make money. It's plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or to get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you're selling something, make buying easy. Show them an easy way to buy and then leave.

Help 'em by making suggestions on what to buy. amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this if you can. Don't clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action that you'd like them to take.

It's not that hard. Just remember when you're putting together any site, try to think through the buying process like a human being. Whatever you do, don't turn the process over to your designer. Don't just say, build me a website. What you'll get out the other end will not give you what it is you're looking for. Give the designer as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We'll talk about this subject more next week and next week we'll be speaking with domain expert Monty Cahn.

And that's it for this week's Adult Site Broker talk. I'd once again like to thank my special guest, Lianne Young. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I'm Bruce Friedman.