Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what's going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we'll be speaking with Robert Warren of 2much.net.
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Now let's feature our property of the week that's for sale at Adult Site Broker. We're proud to offer for sale a network of 22 growing affiliate sites. These include adult and affiliate review sites and various top lists. The network has grown in traffic and income over time. This is due to the quality of the network's seo. The network brings in large amounts of signups through pay per sale and rev share programs.
There are also many two-tier affiliate signups generating income monthly. The seller will be available to the buyer with some ideas on how to generate extra revenue that he didn't have a chance to do himself and to train the new owner on the operation of the sites. We've just reduced the price on this listing from $474,000 to only $369,000. Now time for this week's interview. My guest today and Adult Night Broker talk is Robert Warren of Too much.net as well as his own consulting firm.
Rob, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.
Speaker 2 (2m 27s): Oh, it was my pleasure. I'm so happy to be
Speaker 1 (2m 29s): Here. It's great to have you. Now Robert is a 29 year veteran of the adult industry, focusing on SEO and marketing. Many know him for his professionalism and mentorship. He's offered advice and guidance to company owners on down to new webmasters and sales reps. You can find him currently alongside longtime friend markPrince@toomuch.net handling marketing and SEO for the company. Rob has spoken at many adult shows including avn, Internet, the Phoenix Forum, Webmaster Access, and many more throughout the years.
Rob, it's been a year since we spoke, so what's been going on in your business life since then?
Speaker 2 (3m 9s): Oh, just having a blast. I mean, it's amazing. You would think after so many years you would get bored of it, but it's getting more and more exciting Since the last show. Obviously, you know, a lot of people heard what happened and, or sorry, heard the show and started contacting me and it was really, really nice just chatting with and meeting new people and, and people just wanting to get into the industry and getting advice.
And I think my favorite part is just helping a lot of them avoiding the pitfalls of wanting to get into it. Sure. While other ones who were in it were calling me up and helping them redirect their, their focus because they would've lost a lot of money if, if they continued on the way that they were doing. So it's sure it's so good to be able to help people out and you provided me that opportunity to help even more people out.
So greatly appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (4m 12s): Hey, you were one of our most listened to podcast. You must have had your aunts, your uncles, your your cousins, everyone listening to it
Speaker 2 (4m 23s): As long as it wasn't my parole officer. Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (4m 26s): That's a, that's a, that's a really good thing for sure. Now, during our last conversation, you'd mentioned that about half your life has been spent in the adult industry and before that you were a pastor. Now the industry is faced a lot of attacks for many sources, including the religious right, Lord knows, pun intended. Can you understand their view and how would you respond to them?
Speaker 2 (4m 51s): In part I do understand their view, though. I have to take a step back and say that the American versus the Canadian religious groups are radically different
Speaker 1 (5m 3s): And
Speaker 2 (5m 4s): Even where there is radical Yeah. Up here in Canada, there's tends to be a lot more openness and forgiveness and not, not necessarily forgiveness, but just inclusiveness. Yeah. Like my eldest who's trans, the church, just like, okay, you know, like, welcome with open arms and oh man, you know what, what, what does he go by? And it's like, okay, so I said the name and whenever we've gone, it's like everybody from the pastor right down through whoever we're in contact with says his name the way he wants it.
Yeah. And, and is happy and treats him perfectly normally. And I'm just like, Wow. You know, yet in the US that's a, that's a totally different thing. The religious group in the US has really gotten their hands too much into politics.
Speaker 1 (6m 3s): Absolutely. And,
Speaker 2 (6m 4s): And has not only infected that has become a virus, but has influenced it in totally the wrong ways. That is nothing. And I, you know, and I don't mean to say it this way, but it has go for it. Nothing to do with with biblical teachings or what the Bible says or anything. It is everything to do with their opinions and how they want things to, you know, for themselves.
Not for, but the Bible is so, you know, I'm, years ago when I was being interviewed once, I don't know if you remember, they had a guy named Pastor Phelps. He's from the Westboro Baptist Church, and he was the leader of a group that's called God Hates Fs. And this organization would go literally to, you know, if you had a fallen soldier or something, and if he was homosexual, that they would go and pick at the funeral.
Speaker 1 (7m 11s): Yeah. I do remember that.
Speaker 2 (7m 14s): Terrible. And so I remember when somebody in the adult radio show business wanted to interview them, they had nobody that could stand up or at least could talk to them. Sure. And somebody got ahold of, you know, they got ahold of me and I was a, I was a regular on the show cuz they did that every Wednesday and they got ahold of me. And so I had it out with this guy. And initially at first we were fine, but when I started using logic in actual biblical facts, he was lost.
Speaker 1 (7m 46s): Oh, I bet.
Speaker 2 (7m 46s): And it, then it came down to opinions. And that being said, and to answer your question, what's happening is, is they're attacking not just the women right now, but you know, they're gonna be heading towards areas that, you know, they're gonna removing all the rights for the, for the gay community, they're gonna get rid of the marriage. That's their goals is to take America. And, you know, like a hundred years more in the past.
Sure. And they're already working on the voting.
Speaker 1 (8m 20s): Yeah. I mean, what's happened with, and it started with like Falwell and those guys, the moral majority love that Im
Speaker 2 (8m 31s): Majority
Speaker 1 (8m 32s): Yeah. I mean, what's happened is the religious powers that be have hijacked the right. Totally hijacked them. And they've somehow convinced a lot of people that anything that isn't the norm is wrong. And they've gotten the politicos to go along with them. Yeah. Let's, let's face it, the, the the right of of well, all of politics in America is jacked up and it needs a total redo.
The two party system is outmoded and they're just, it doesn't serve the people. About 85% of the people, I believe, think that abortion should be legal. And yet we've got one of our two parties voting against it every time. So, Well,
Speaker 2 (9m 27s): He, if I, if I can just interject here. Sure. I can show you the hypocrisy of all of this and of the very short sentence. And that is that if you remember during Covid, these people were standing up and they were screaming, you know, I'm not wanna wear masks and what was their chant? My body, my choice.
Speaker 1 (9m 48s): Yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 2 (9m 49s): Now when it comes to women in abortion and all this, they forgotten that mattress, that mantra. Yeah. And now they're saying basically your body our choice.
Speaker 1 (9m 60s): Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. They try to tell people how to live their lives. Yeah. They tell people how to live their lives and you know, that's kind of an American
Speaker 2 (10m 9s): Yeah,
Speaker 1 (10m 10s): Yeah. Kinda undemocratic for any democratic country. I like yours better. So, so last time we, we talked, we talked about you being a family man with five kids and you mentioned your eldest is trans and you have another child with I'll see, said this right? Dubs okay. Syndrome. Yeah. That's Now how has all this affected your business life?
Speaker 2 (10m 35s): I'm gonna say in one word, empathy.
Speaker 1 (10m 39s): Ah.
Speaker 2 (10m 40s): I mean, I've always tried to, to read and to learn about the industry and those who are within it, you know, the various cultures, the fetishes, the opinions. And Sure. During that time there was a lot that have escaped me, in other words that I just couldn't get a handle on. Right. And I knew that there was areas that I needed growth on. People would say, you know, Oh, I'm trans, for example. And I'd be like, That's good, but what the hell does that really mean?
And now that I'm going through this with my own team, I can now find myself at trade shows or, or just talking on the webmaster boards or wherever, and I can actually identify and I can strike up a conversation. I can relate Yes. And empathize rather than asking awkward questions or, or being like somebody who's just like, you know, you're kind of at arms length, you know, do it, but do it over there. Right. You know?
And so rather than just brush 'em off or ignore them, I can engage hoping that they'll understand that, you know, my main purpose in talking is that, you know, I do consider people in the adult industry like an, like a family.
Speaker 1 (11m 57s): It is, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11m 58s): You know, and if you remember the old Lelo one stitch, what is it? Ohana like, you know, like means family and family means no one gets left behind or forgotten. And as we move ahead as an industry, we can't leave people behind or forget them. And that also means the various smaller groups or whatever groups and, you know, we have to make sure that they're aware that we're here and, and that we can, we can relate, you know?
Okay. And we're not gonna ignore.
Speaker 1 (12m 35s): Okay. Sounds good. You might want to turn the sound off on, on your computer there, so somebody wants you there. So the, the past few years we've dealt as an industry with Covid just like the rest of the world. Do you think Covid has had a positive or negative impact on our industry and why?
Speaker 2 (12m 55s): The positive is I think a lot of us who are there and, and, and helping people out to create websites and all of that, that people are, are, you know, they're trying to play it smart. And so individuals who want to, I'm finding that more and more people who are now stuck at home or whatever, they, they're all sudden going, Well let's create a, a website, you know, and let's do this. So that grew, A lot of people grew on that.
There's also people who are obviously stressed and need relief. And so a lot of the seals specifically in the cam industry grew. Yeah. As, because Cams provide a relationship, so to speak, not necessarily a healthy one, but it did. And so there was a lot of loneliness and, and so that side of it grew on the negative. We lost too many damn good people.
Speaker 1 (13m 55s): Okay.
Speaker 2 (13m 57s): And also, Covid drove a wedge between the, the rest of the industry because as you already know, on the boards, some people refused to accept Covid as a reason for things. Yeah. And others were, you know, whether to get vaccinated or not. And there was a huge battle going on constantly. Yeah. And as we kept on fighting over that, more and more people died.
Speaker 1 (14m 27s): Yeah. I kind of found, I kind of found on the boards and in society in general, those were the same people who were staunch Trump supporters almost to, to a person. And quite frankly, I've had most of those people blocked, at least on ex bids where I spend most of my time. Yeah. Cause I just don't have time. Well, I just, I don't have time for politics anymore. The whole, the whole Jan since January 6th, my, my interest in politics is, is almost ni except where it affects our industry directly.
So, you know, I I I think that those, those are the same people and they've been invisible to me, which is a real good thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15m 8s): The other thing is a sad thing is the content. And that is that we sure, we already had a whole crap load of content on the net, but we were slowly reaching our limit as to what people wanted to watch. And then whatever was left was left, we couldn't shoot anymore. Yeah. Basically. And then all of a sudden when people were shooting, we started getting new niches, we started getting porn, mass porn, quarantine, porn.
Exactly. Like, we really need a reminder of this
Speaker 1 (15m 48s): Inevitable.
Speaker 2 (15m 50s): No. But then, but then we had like, places like only fans, I mean, really they only happened because people were bored with porn movies and or gave up hope that the girl honestly enjoyed what she was doing. I mean,
Speaker 1 (16m 5s): I don't, I don't think people, the people who were the consumers of, of porn were necessarily born with porn board with porn movies. I think that what happened there was the whole creator thing took off because so many people were either outta work or just had a lot of time on their hands. And then obviously the whole only fans and their, you know, other companies like it, they took off because people found out you could make a lot of money there and the, the coal creator thing took, took off.
So I think that was a huge plus for the industry.
Speaker 2 (16m 44s): Well people when they watch, for example, webcams are only fans outside of just the appearance and visuals. They're there because they want to develop a relationship. Sure. I've always said this when it comes to webcams and Oh yeah, I joined only fans with that. When you see somebody as beautiful, those girls get hit up or those people and only fans get hit up so much. Sure. With people wanting to have a connection. Sure. When you have a lot of that now more, especially during Covid, when it was quarantine, the other porn stuff that was on the tube sites, you know, you can only search for a topic so much before is just like, I've, I've seen it all.
Hmm. Or I've seen what I've wanted to see at the end of the day, good or bad, it still boils down to, you know, we lost too many people that we'll never see again.
Speaker 1 (17m 40s): So we've recently seen major companies who are stable, suddenly have lots of issues. Mind geek obviously recently lost some senior executives along with over 200 of their employees. Now, is this something you saw coming and what do you think will be the fallout?
Speaker 2 (17m 58s): Well, remember when I talked about Phelps and those guys and the Christians when I talked a long time ago? Yeah. I mean, they're behind a lot of this stuff. Not him in particular, but these, these, these religious groups are trying to attack and they're not gonna stop at PornHub.
Speaker 1 (18m 18s): Right.
Speaker 2 (18m 18s): Eventually, I mean, you know, these credit card companies and everybody are gonna start, the processors are gonna start going to like X videos and hamsters. They're gonna be down the road as well.
Speaker 1 (18m 30s): Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (18m 31s): And then we're gonna get into, you know, like the stolen content and with all the efforts of the content producers matter, we'll help, you know, it's, it's gonna, it's gonna help, or sorry. I was gonna say, it's all gonna be part of taking it down because at the time, and we're talking a lot of tube sites out there, Right. And all of those tube sites don't have original content. I mean, they have something that's called a scraper and they just basically go to the other tube sites and scrape all of the movies.
And then many do their repertoire.
Speaker 1 (19m 5s): Yeah, many do. Yeah. But
Speaker 2 (19m 7s): Now that porn hub and that have to have all of the IDs and all the paperwork and everything, what do you think's gonna happen to all these other tube sites that don't have that?
Speaker 1 (19m 15s): That's true.
Speaker 2 (19m 16s): They're gonna be in, in the firing line eventually.
Speaker 1 (19m 19s): Yeah. If you can get to 'em, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2 (19m 22s): Get them,
Speaker 1 (19m 23s): There's, there's so many of them, man. Okay,
Speaker 2 (19m 25s): Let, let's put it this way. Free to me has a, Yeah, why do I say that? Because look at all the, remember when we used to have all those free torrent sites Yeah. That you could download music and videos, all that kinda stuff. Right? Where are they? There's still some,
Speaker 1 (19m 41s): There's still, there's still some up,
Speaker 2 (19m 43s): But not as much as they used to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (19m 45s): Oh, no, of course not. Because
Speaker 2 (19m 49s): If, you know, if somebody really, really wanted to get to them, the could, you know, that's, And once again, I get back to the point of, you know, when we were younger, if watching the same type of porn was okay, then we would be perfectly happy with their first Playboy. And that would last just for life.
Speaker 1 (20m 12s): I
Speaker 2 (20m 13s): Remember we're just wanting to see more. We're always wanting to, to get into more things and then our imagination takes over. Yeah. And then, you know, eventually content companies, they're just pushing out stuff and they don't really thinking about, you know, it's, it's, it's a cookie cutting thing.
Speaker 1 (20m 32s): Well, and you know, I Rob, I think here's the, here's the thing, and I've always said this, you know, people say, Well, what's gonna work? If you look at the most successful producers and companies and websites, these are the people that have a niche. They do content within that niche. And sometimes it's quite specialized. And those are the people who have continued to do well, are the people who have really specialized.
Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Yes. And the other thing is that, remember what I was talking about webcams, there are certain video clips or, or movies where you can tell that the model is like really into it. Right. You can tell that he or she is, is thoroughly enjoying it there and you get a connection with it. And if we can come out with models and, and there, they, it still gets back to what is connecting to the users.
Speaker 1 (21m 34s): Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21m 35s): And when they look at her eyes or when they watch the video clip, the ones that stand out in your mind right now, if you've ever watched porn, I don't know if you have or not, but if you ever have, of course, the movies that stand out in your mind are the ones that you've made a connection with the model that drew some type of desire or passion or feeling that you've made a connections like that person's really into what I'm into. Yeah. And I'm gonna keep watching this video again because I can relate or I feel something more.
Speaker 1 (22m 9s): Right.
Speaker 2 (22m 10s): With that particular video. Or,
Speaker 1 (22m 13s): Or at least they make you think they're into it. Acting comes into
Speaker 2 (22m 17s): It, It's all, it's all a game. But at this end of the day, you can have a hundred videos, but you might only watch two or three over again a couple times. Why is that? Because you've connected to the model, you've connected to the scene, you've connected to the action. And right now, are we really coming up with content that's doing that? Or are we just trying to, to fill the, you know, just fill the void with what we've got?
Sometimes I look, I look at sometimes some of the stuff and I, I just shake my head because you could tell that the model, you know, when they're looking away, they're, they're looking to where their paycheck is sitting.
Speaker 1 (22m 59s): Exactly. It's on, it's on the ceiling. So, so you're, so you're coming close to 30 years in this industry. Okay. Yeah. Over the years you worked with multiple companies and still are, Do you ever see yourself retiring?
Speaker 2 (23m 16s): Oh God. You know, there's an old saying that, you know, you, you hear people say that you're a lucky person if you can love what you work at. And what I do, at least what I think I do is I connect with people and I really find that, you know, the, you know, the, the, the connections are what keeps me alive and keeps me going year after year talking to new people, helping 'em out, learning about them, you know? Right. Growing like that. I think that if this, I'm gonna call it the new industry, I, if it starts going in a way that I simply can't support it anymore.
Right. You know, in, in allowing content,
Speaker 1 (23m 57s): How would that, well how would that be?
Speaker 2 (23m 59s): Honestly, I've seen more simulated underage content.
Speaker 1 (24m 4s): Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (24m 6s): I've,
Speaker 1 (24m 7s): Well, but that's something the credit card companies will clamp down on really fast though.
Speaker 2 (24m 11s): There, there's, there's, if you look at POV stuff and you look at more of this family stuff, you know, incest and all that that's coming out and all of this, and you just, like, where the hell did all this come from? I mean, remember the old days when the
Speaker 1 (24m 27s): Reason they, the reason they have it sadly, is it's something that turns somebody on.
Speaker 2 (24m 32s): Yeah. But now we are, but now we're getting into this whole realm where the content that's being shot is, is kind of going into direction that just is like, Whoa, wait a minute here. There was times when we wouldn't have even touched this. Hmm. You know?
Speaker 1 (24m 49s): Okay. And
Speaker 2 (24m 50s): The people, and the people that are in the industry, we have actually started to, to lose our connection with one another. And let me explain this. Okay. Like, I still don't get a lot of great friends and, and for the past few years, and I've made friends, you know, but if you're somebody here who, for example, if you take a break, like I've known one or two people who've taken a break and just say, Look, I'm stepping back for the industry.
I'm just gonna, you know, go do something else. And then, you know, and then they come back after like two years or something. Yeah. Like, I know one guy who was like king of the world, you know, he'd go to a trade show. Everybody wanted to be with him, Everybody wanted to be there. And now, you know, like, and he just felt burnt at the time. Sure. But then he wanted to come back and then it was just like, started to be, nobody's ever heard of him, you know? So, I mean, there's people now that think that they're legendary and, but see what happens when you don't post for about a year or two.
Speaker 1 (25m 56s): Well, hey, here's the thing. Okay. And not everybody posts Rob, but, but here's, here's the thing. Okay. If you go away for a period of time, a whole new group of people join the industry and they don't know you. So to, to them you are new, You need to reestablish your reputation with them. Well, you need to establish your reputation cuz you don't have one.
Speaker 2 (26m 20s): And that also includes that awards, at least in my mind, Don't mean Deadly Squad
Speaker 1 (26m 27s): Awards
Speaker 2 (26m 28s): Last you, you are winning of an award last till New Year's
Speaker 1 (26m 32s): If
Speaker 2 (26m 32s): That, you know, because it's like,
Speaker 1 (26m 35s): That's a whole other subject.
Speaker 2 (26m 37s): Oh, don't even get me started on that. I, I I've got, you know, I've seen people that tell those things and it's like, yeah, okay, maybe that was back in that year. What about now? You know?
Speaker 1 (26m 48s): Yeah. And let's, let's face it, some awards are legitimate, most are not. And it does, it does seem like a small group of people win the lion share the awards and it all comes back to the, to the Bro club Yep.
Speaker 2 (27m 9s): And advertisers and things like
Speaker 1 (27m 11s): That. Oh, well, well that goes, that kind of goes without saying, doesn't it? That kind of goes without saying. I mean, I mean, there are, there are exceptions. You get somebody like Brad from Mojo Host who has won so many awards. Well, he deserves it. He has a great company. But, you know, that doesn't mean there aren't other good web hosts out there.
Speaker 2 (27m 30s): Yeah. You and I are entered in dangerous territory right
Speaker 1 (27m 32s): Now. So I, you know what? I don't really give a flip. I mean, I've got, I've got my, the people who like me and the people who hate me, and it's not, it's not necessarily gonna change. And like I said, like I said, Brad's very deserving. Okay. I congratulate him every time he wins an award. With that said, he's not the only web host. Okay. And, and there are people who win awards year after year after year where they're competition potentially for the award.
They should win something. I mean, let's face it, it's a popularity contest. And you're right. The being an advertiser quite often is what wins you these things. So somebody's, if somebody's offended by that, I'm sorry. No, I'm not really sorry.
Speaker 2 (28m 24s): So, Well,
Speaker 1 (28m 25s): I
Speaker 2 (28m 25s): Can end with this Brad for Mojo. I know you're listening. If you win the Xbi Newcomer of the Year award,
Speaker 1 (28m 35s): That could be a problem. Yeah, that could be. I'm
Speaker 2 (28m 37s): Gonna have a,
Speaker 1 (28m 38s): Okay. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2 (28m 40s): Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28m 40s): That could, that could definitely be a problem. And if you win and if you win the newcomer of the, of the year, I've got a, I've got a problem with that. Okay. Yeah. So,
Speaker 2 (28m 50s): One, I got lost in the mail a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (28m 52s): Yes, it did. So well, mine too. So one thing I've noticed is that you don't promote yourself at all on the boards these days while others do. Why is that? Well,
Speaker 2 (29m 4s): I mean, we just had the quick conversation. I mean, I don't really covert awards and, you know, my feelings about that. I think, as I said, it's, it's a domino effect. Like on the boards, as I said, I, I talk to people like family and, and you and people request help and all that stuff. And you know, I I I don't sit there and say, Hey, I'm an SEO monkey, you know, and I hate it.
I absolutely hate it when people use the word expert or that somebody knows everything about everything. Well, nobody does it. It really does because there is no, there is no such thing, you know, I'm sorry. That's true. But I get several Skypes and emails a day and they basically start off all the same. It's like, so and so recommended you that I should ask you this question. And you know, and I'm there and I help them out. And, you know, if people see what I'm writing on the boards, you notice that when I post things, I don't, you know, I post about the topic or whatever.
I don't really, I just don't push it out there. The first order of my business is to gain trust into relationship. Sure. You know, because people buy and work with those people that they trust. Right. And if you're not trustworthy to be honest and do what you say you're gonna do, then, you know, and if, sorry, if that, if that's what you're doing, then a new client is built. Clients at the end of the day are my boss. Yeah. And I just perform and I, you know, but, but I also need to train and teach them Sure.
As well. Not just to show 'em that they made the right choice. Right. For me. But, you know, we can also have higher levels of discussions. And with that being said, if you're training somebody and you're teaching somebody, if you've developed a relationship with them, they're more willing to take it in and know that when you're giving them advice and you're talking about their site or, or SEO or whatever, because a lot of times they do more than just seo. I'm giving people advice on their business and, and everything from marketing to, you know, what to buy and what do whatever.
But they do that because they trust. Cause they honestly know that I care about who they are and what they're doing. And, and I'm helping them. I wanna see them succeed. And if they're honestly at that point where they're, they, they really do want to succeed for the right reasons Right. Then, then I'm there to help them along. And that's great. And at the end of the day, you know, when you got people who have succeeded, bosses talk.
Yeah. You know, and when bosses talk, they recommend, and at times that will be me. And so sure. When that happens, I would rather get a client from a referral, which I do then promote myself. Because, you know, you're starting off from squares, you know, back down to Square zero again. Yeah. Somebody says, Hey, you know, this guy's really helped my company. We've, we've grown our, our traffic has grown by a thousand percent or 2000 and he's really helped me out and in more than we used in one.
I really think you need to talk to this guy. I want a client like that. Of course, of course. Don't we all, because that guy will call me up and he's saying, Look, you got very well recommended and you know, what can you do? What can we do together? And then, you know, know on good terms to start.
Speaker 1 (32m 41s): Yep. So, so thinking back over the years, what is it that you miss in this industry that isn't around anymore that you believe we could all benefit from?
Speaker 2 (32m 51s): There's so many different answers. Give me, I guess the first way that I could answer that is with the number 42
Speaker 1 (33m 0s): Jackie Robinson?
Speaker 2 (33m 2s): No, no, that's, that's Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Okay. But actually, if I was to count, and th this is why I say 42, if I count and I have how many webmaster boards have on my list, There's like 42. Hmm. But actively right now, like we, you're basically looking at Xbi G FY and that kind of stuff, right? Yep. Like, there's very, very, very few that are left.
And most of those other message boards, if you remember back in the day, I mean, they were all just basically promotional tools for, for the affiliate companies,
Speaker 1 (33m 44s): Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (33m 46s): And affiliate companies would advertise on these boards, and so everybody would start them up and, but now that there's not the affiliate dollars going into those boards, suddenly they're, they're off.
Speaker 1 (33m 56s): Oh, yeah. And, and I think the whole message board concept has been taken over by Facebook groups and the like.
Speaker 2 (34m 2s): Yeah. But back in the day without Tubes, affiliate programs basically ruled more the, the message boards. Sure. That gave us the chance to connect to each other. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34m 17s): But you still, well you still have it on X Biz and also G fy, although I don't spend a lot of time over there,
Speaker 2 (34m 24s): So limited.
Speaker 1 (34m 25s): Well, yeah. Bec quite frankly, here's, here's the biggest problem I find and it's, it's something that's infected all social media, including adult social media, is politics. And that is what has driven most people away from the industry boards, the ones that still exist. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34m 46s): Yeah. I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (34m 48s): And I mean, ex Xbi used to have tons of posts and tons of questions about the business and hey, I'm, I'm starting this and will you take a look at this site? And it also would have a lot more people who were experienced and had been around a long time and were actual owners of sites and companies on there. You don't see much of that anymore. And the ones who are on or on a lot less, cuz quite frankly they don't wanna go through all the political posts and everything.
There's just too much bs I mean all, all, all it's become is a, is is a bitch forum.
Speaker 2 (35m 28s): Back in the day when there was all this, I think I was at one point I was moderator on six of them. And what I, I think is also we've done is we've lost the ability, and I mean this in all sincerity, we've lost the ability to mentor one another and which also means having a code of conduct.
Speaker 1 (35m 50s): Right.
Speaker 2 (35m 51s): You know, and we found that out, especially this week when somebody came on the board and basically told somebody something that they should not have. Hmm. And this person was a mentor and a veteran and the person called her cunt.
Speaker 1 (36m 10s): And
Speaker 2 (36m 11s): I was stunned
Speaker 1 (36m 13s): Because
Speaker 2 (36m 14s): This is a veteran, this is somebody who's done so much for so many people and person.
Speaker 1 (36m 19s): That's a good way, it's a good way to get yourself banned. Which hopefully they were,
Speaker 2 (36m 22s): They were good. It actually was, according to somebody was like the quickest band ever happened.
Speaker 1 (36m 28s): Good. Was this, was this on? Was this on?
Speaker 2 (36m 32s): Yes.
Speaker 1 (36m 34s): Missed.
Speaker 2 (36m 36s): That's what happens when you miss a meeting. Yeah. Well, but we, we have lost the ability to mentor one another. And that's why I think that I've been around for so long is I do that. Yeah. And with that comes along with the vanguard, the old days is that there was a code of conduct. Yeah. Trades were more about trades for about adult networking and fun. Yeah. Showing off making entertains truly porn stars, industry veterans were legends and experts and you know, and now, you know, now we've got this slick software that's out there that an actuality is very limited, but everything they can, everybody thinks that they can get away with doing their own designing and programming and SEO and marketing without the need of anyone else who's actually trained for it.
And you know, back in the day, we, we had people that when they came in to actually do business, they had capital behind them rather than a limited budget that basically be a drop in the water
Speaker 1 (37m 37s): Sometimes. Sometimes you had upstarts though, and some of the upstarts did very well.
Speaker 2 (37m 42s): Yeah. And they did. I think the, the, the key thing, and this has happened in the past as it does now, and that the one thing that is lacked over the years is creativity. You know, yes you've got design and content marketing and seo, but if you get one company who does it, who's a little bit creative and then everyone else steals it and reformats it and does the same process
Speaker 1 (38m 7s): Sure.
Speaker 2 (38m 8s): And you know, now people just kinda like, like I challenge anyone to find an adult company, for example, a webcam site. We're more than 80% of the traffic comes from, for example, social media. Back in the day we didn't really have social media as much.
Speaker 1 (38m 27s): Right, Right.
Speaker 2 (38m 28s): We worked really hard on, you know, you, you got traffic and we worked on analytics and we used it properly. Right. And we got people back onto, you know, the proper way of being able to build a site.
Speaker 1 (38m 44s): Yep.
Speaker 2 (38m 45s): Now you have people who call themselves experts who go out there like, you know, oh, social media is the way to go. And I'm like, my god, I have seen so many traffic overviews of multiple sites and every single one of them, when you look at social media, it is down to, of all of the traffic, whether it's a million, you know, of hits or whatever like that, of all the traffic, less than, let's say four to 8% of all of those companies are from social media.
If you take that number, you can break it down even more
Speaker 1 (39m 22s): Sure. By
Speaker 2 (39m 24s): To YouTube and all this kind of stuff. Right. Sure. But most of them are under 3% and you know, I can, I can think of like seven campsite right off the bat in the past two years, tried to rely solely on social media probably because it was free to them and they spent so much time, so much time on it. Sure. And some of them got some traffic, some of them's very little, they spent massive amount of time or whatever.
And the, but the end of the day, the conversions simply weren't air.
Speaker 1 (40m 0s): Okay.
Speaker 2 (40m 1s): And they had little impact on sales. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40m 4s): So some who were listening to the podcast have either just started or are gonna soon start their own website. What advice can you give them to do and what not to do?
Speaker 2 (40m 14s): Well, we were just talking about it. I mean, anyone who's claiming that there to be an expert or promises you tons of traffic at little or no cost, well the reality is it does take effort and cost. Sure. You don't think that it will, that it's that it will happen. That then you're gonna be disappointed in it and try not to rely upon, you know, free online software for things like SEO or for whatever Right. To solve all your problems because it, you, it only handles a certain amount of your website and it's very limited.
Right. You know, and in, but you do need, and this goes back to what we talked about before. We need mentors and we need knowledgeable people that give advice and Right. And people have gotten away from doing that for looking for those mentors because they think that this piece of software, when they Google it, is gonna solve their problems. Sure. And if you're shooting content, shoot what you enjoy and Right. And if not, then do your research. Shoot what your users want or will want learn it, study it and be willing to admit that you're wrong and change, seek out a mentor if you can.
And they might be expensive, but the cost of you making mistakes is gonna be even higher. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41m 38s): And you know, mentors don't always cost money. I mean
Speaker 2 (41m 42s): Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (41m 43s): You know, my mentor, my, and he's the one who introduced me to you when I first started in the industry, and I consider you one as well because you were always very helpful, helpful with your advice was Bob Rice. And, and I know Bob's name isn't necessarily positive to everyone. Me, Hey,
Speaker 2 (42m 0s): You and I have the same mentor.
Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Yeah. Oh, okay. Well Bob's name might not be positive to everyone who's listening because of some things a company he was associated with did at the end. I
Speaker 2 (42m 11s): I, I've, I've learned that recently too.
Speaker 1 (42m 13s): Yeah. But at the same time, I think Bob walks on water. He's one of the smartest guys I've ever met in this industry. And he really gave me, well, more than once he actually got me started, not only in the industry, he had a, I think it was in, was an audio or a video, a program that talked about starting a site. And I wish I had taken more of the advice cuz when I got it, I was already far down the road and then made a lot of mistakes.
But then Bob was instrumental in me getting into the website brokering. So I've got, because he was doing it at one time. So I've got a lot of, really a lot to thank Bob for. So, you know, mentors aren't, don't always cost money sometimes and quite often. Yeah. It's just somebody that you meet at a show or you connect with on ex biz, which I think is, is really the biggest, most valuable tool of that type of platform is to ask questions.
And you can ask questions of the community on X business. That's one of the things I love about it cuz I'm always there to answer the questions. You're always there to answer the questions. Mark's always there to answer the questions, the regulars, and unfortunately we're down to just the regulars, Steve from Groupy is always very giving with this time. The people who are the regulars will answer questions if you ask them. And if you reach out to them and send them a private message, people are more than happy to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (43m 45s): Yeah. And, but that's what I'm saying is that we need the mentors and Yeah. Do you
Speaker 1 (43m 51s): Think they're out there? I still think there,
Speaker 2 (43m 52s): There, there are people out there who, when they make suggestions, sometimes they make suggestions that are not necessarily in the best interest.
Speaker 1 (44m 2s): Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (44m 4s): Yeah. Okay. And, and for example, if you remember the days, you know, or it's like, you know, Oh, who do you recommend to do this? Well, why don't you use this company because you recommended that company because you get, let's say 5%. Well,
Speaker 1 (44m 19s): Yeah. And that still, and that obviously still goes on, but I'll tell you something, even in the case where I will get a referral fee or a commission from somebody and I don't go out, go searching those out because I get offered them as I'm sure you do on a daily basis. And I, I turn away virtually every deal because Yeah. They, they want me, they wanna put me on commission because obviously I wear a mark, I wear the marketing hat too, and I tell that's not what I do.
But if, if it's a service that I believe is worthy, I will recommend them. But I'm not gonna recommend somebody just to make money. I'll recommend them if I believe in them as I know you will. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45m 1s): I, I, I've never accepted any of those offers because my reasoning being is that if I accept that, then I will never, ever be able to give you 100% accuracy and truthfulness that my recommendation is true and the best it can be. And yes, it's okay for you to check out somebody, but if you honestly think that maybe it might go somewhere else, then, then, okay,
Speaker 1 (45m 29s): Hey, I don't think there's, I don't think there's really anything wrong if you do believe in it to accept something, but I, but I, I can, Hey, you're a better man than I am. And I, I haven't really taken a lot of commissions from people. I mainly do it in the case of like processing and things like that where obviously out.
Speaker 2 (45m 48s): Yeah. It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do. That's just me and what I do. Okay. Anybody, I mean, I'm not pointing fingers of anybody who does that. I'm just Well,
Speaker 1 (45m 57s): You better not. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45m 59s): So, okay, so getting back to the other, Okay, so we talked about seeking on a mentor. We talked about finding a trusted processing company, Find a good industry lawyer, please for God's sakes, try not to use WordPress things for seo. If you're gonna have pictures up and videos, don't use numbers on them like 2, 3, 4, 2, 3 jpeg because Right.
Speaker 1 (46m 25s): You need
Speaker 2 (46m 26s): Can't rank that and, and can't collect that.
Speaker 1 (46m 30s): Why do you, by the way, why do you say not to use WordPress? Because I'm a, I'm a WordPress believer and I, my sites are in WordPress. Obviously I don't have membership sites, but why do you say not to use WordPress?
Speaker 2 (46m 44s): There are at times, and Mark would jump in on, on this one as well. There are at times when it comes to programming and or various other things, even with seo right? That it's more difficult working with WordPress than creating a different site. Also, there are certain security things that can happen with WordPress that doesn't happen with other sites. Now I know that Brad at Mojo and all that can create some certain security, but I've seen more breaches happen on WordPress and problems happening with WordPress and I have
Speaker 1 (47m 21s): With, Oh, Don, I know. Yeah, I know there's problems.
Speaker 2 (47m 23s): That's, that's all that I'm saying. You know, that's, I don't wanna get, I don't bash them at all. I'm just, just saying my recommendation personally is, is for that. Okay. The other thing is never assume that your brilliant ideas groundbreaking because sure. Somebody has thought of it in the past and they failed and find out why. Yeah. Be flexible with your programmer on advice. Be gracious, uplifting on the webmaster boards.
Don't get into a pissing match, but finally is read, read and read more strong wise leadership and, and you should be able to go far.
Speaker 1 (48m 5s): Now, any general words of advice to people in the industry that you would give before we close out?
Speaker 2 (48m 11s): I would think in the industry, and this is gotta listen here, I've said this before, the industry is the only, and I'm gonna use the term army, okay? We're the only army that shoots its own wounded. So we have to stop attacking one another. Yes. We have to start helping each other through, as I said, mentoring, but mostly support those in the battle for our rights.
Right. And be aware to fight all the attacks that are happening for the government society. Yes. From owners to models. Everyone did. Yeah. Because if we're, if we're just constantly nailing one another, we're missing out on who the, on what's really attacking us.
Speaker 1 (48m 59s): Yeah. It's a circular firing squad, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (49m 2s): Yeah. And so that would be my only advice to the industry is, you know, like we literally are one of the only armies that shoot its own wounded.
Speaker 1 (49m 13s): That's funny. But it's unfortunately it's true. Hey Rob, I'd like to thank you for being our guest again today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we'll get a chance to do this again soon.
Speaker 2 (49m 24s): I hope so too. And thank you so much, Bruce, for the opportunity and also for giving of your time and, and expertise in mentoring other people through just the podcast. I appreciate all that you're doing as well and it's a pleasure every time to be here.
Speaker 1 (49m 40s): Thank you, Ron. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about trademarking your site and ways to make it unique. Next, when you decide to sell your site, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers. Detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspects of your operation that potential buyers may wanna find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images and number of videos, how much of it is exclusive and how much is non exclusive financial information for at least the last three years if your company is that old.
This should include sales reports, profit and loss statements, and billing reports. Get all the information organized and legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself. Organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today's market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know, such as are you being sued?
Do you have any substantial debts or anything else? Don't let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They'll either find out before the sale and not buy, or they'll find out after the sale and you'll have another lawsuit on your hands. Disclose everything. We'll talk about this subject more next week and next week we'll be speaking with Jay Kopita of Why not. And that's it for this week's Adult Site Broker talk. I'd once again like to thank my guest, Robert Warren.
Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I'm Bruce Friedman.