Adult Site Broker Talk Episode 11 with Massi of Feet4Cash

Adult Site Broker Talk Episode 11

[00:00:09] This is Bruce Friedman from Adult Site Broker. And welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we discuss what's going on in our business. Plus, we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week, we'll be talking to Massi from Feet4Cash.

[00:00:33] Adult Site Broker is proud to announce Adult Site Broker Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage with Adult Site Broker cash. You'll have the chance to earn as much as 20 percent of our broker commission, referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check our website at Adult Site Broker dot com for more details. First of all, let's cover some of the news going on in our industry Monday in a letter from adult film producers and buyers. This message was posted on the Free Speech Coalition website. We are deeply concerned for the health and safety of every member of the adult entertainment community. The inability to produce has caused financial hardship throughout the industry, and we are eager to return to work as you are, however, to protect you, our community and our industry. We have agreed not to resume production of content with people who don't live in the same household until the following conditions are met. Film production is legally permitted under the phased reopening guidelines in the local and national jurisdictions where the production will occur. Free Speech Coalition publishes production, health and safety guidelines for sets during covid, and companies that produce content for it have adopted an industry standard set of safety protocols. Only when these three elements are in place and we're confident we have effectively minimized risk for our performers and crew in our community, will we be able to resume production? We are working to these goals as quickly as possible. We're all in this together. A group of Tampa Bay, Florida, adult businesses have filed a lawsuit challenging the Small Business Administration's clause in their loan application, which can be interpreted to discriminate against sexually oriented businesses.

[00:02:30] According to a Tampa Bay Times report, Fantasy Land, Adult Super Center and Charlotte's Cabaret in Tampa, Silk's in Palm Harbor and Diamond Dolls in Clearwater, along with several other adult businesses in Florida, are suing the Small Business Administration, its administrator and U.S. Treasury Secretary, Steven Manoogian in federal court in Tampa. The lawsuit, the report continues, calls the policy regarding adult businesses is discriminatory and unconstitutional and says employees were engaged in First Amendment protected expression. Now let's feature our Property of the Week that's for sale at Adult Site Broker. This week, we're featuring a premium tube site. The owner originally bought a tube script, but revised it by adding the following an option for premium videos on a paper sale basis, multi-language functionality, tabs, banners and different sizes with the option to add keywords and view stats. A pop under script, a pre roll system to show pre rules on V.R. as well as 2D videos an option so you can import embedded content in bulk from other tubes. The site has 20000 nonexclusive videos and trailers. It also acts as an affiliate for all of the studios and earns on a regular basis or model while sending traffic to these sites. The traffic is 90 percent direct and 10 percent of affiliate. This is a great custom tube site for a company that already has traffic ascend to the tube that they want to monetize. Everything is plug and play. This is an outstanding product for campsites, tubes or any other site that wants to better monetize their traffic. And it's selling for only one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. Now, time for this week's interview.

[00:04:28] Today on Adult Site Broker Talk. I'm speaking to one of my absolute favorite people in the adult space, Massi from Feet4Cash. Thanks for being with us today. Well, thank you, Bruce for the invitation. I'm thrilled about that. Thank you so much.

[00:04:43] So here's some info on feed for cash was established in two thousand eight feet for cash is a network of pay sites mainly focused on the foot fetish Nesh with a total of 18 sites. The program has a site aimed for every taste and foot fetish. Affiliates earn a 50 percent lifetime commission on every sale and rebill, plus five percent on referrals to other Web masters. All content is exclusive and produced in-house, which makes their content unique and recognized in the foot fetish community. Try saying that three times. Another important factor is non nude sites in the network. These can be promoted in ways that no adult Paysite can get from the program. Many monetization opportunities. So Masae, let's let's start with how feet for cash was born. Why don't you tell us about it?

[00:05:35] Well, it was as you said, it was 2008, and I remember I've been a friend with my the other co-founder, Fabrizio, and we've been friends since, like, forever. And we actually met for the first time on a foot fetish chat back in the days. And we always thought about one day we should produce our own content because he's a photographer, of course, and I'm in the touch side. So one day in 2008, he came to my house and he told me, I must say, you have to do this. I, I want to start shooting pictures and videos with models and I will we need to build to build the Paysite. I think it is at that time, I didn't know anything about building site or anything about getting in traffic, anything without even finding models. So we stopped.

[00:06:27] Were you what were you doing or were you doing back then?

[00:06:30] Well, same thing I'm doing now. I mean, I'm a software developer, as you know. So I'm I'm an employee in a company. And I was doing that. And yes, I did have a few websites as an affiliate, but it wasn't really my I wasn't even thinking about making that business. OK, so we start from scratch. And I it was we it took us about two years before starting to understand how things were actually working, because even finding models was not easy, because you had no one, no one knows you. And you need to find a model and start asking, you know, I want to shoot pictures of your feet. And that's not easy. It's actually easier when you ask for regular porn most of the time. Interesting. Yeah, it is. Why do you think why do you think that is? Because we are still seen as freaks basically. So it's it's something, you know, when you should regular porn, you you go to models that are already in that area. But for us, we wanted to shoot regular girls. So girls that you can find next door, girls that have never been models before. So it was a bit more difficult about that. Absolutely.

[00:07:47] But, you know, in time when you start building up a name and being a bit more known in the area as well, you know, it became easier and easier, but it wasn't easy at all at the beginning. And plus we started into 2008. And you can agree with me that that time wasn't the best time to open a Paysite, wasn't the best time to do anything.

[00:08:12] Exactly. Exactly.

[00:08:14] So in a way, it was harder, of course, at the beginning. But in a way it does. And if you in the coming years, because we start in the worst possible time, we had to fight for every league, for every sale. And as time goes on, it became easier, you know, when you when you experienced that get easier. So that's it was interesting.

[00:08:37] I didn't even know you had a business partner.

[00:08:40] Yeah, I do. I do. With the two of us.

[00:08:43] You are the face you are the face of feed for cash. There's no two ways about it.

[00:08:48] Well, yes, it's true. And this is the one that creates all the content. So it's the classic case where we wouldn't be able to be alone anyway. I mean, we need both of us because he's great taking pictures. Everybody's saying that our content is great. So and they need to thank him for that because he's the one that's so it is on the Facebook and these applications account and so works.

[00:09:13] Absolutely. So what made you decide to start the company besides your your friend's inspiration?

[00:09:21] Well, it was more for something that we always dreamed about before, it's not we didn't want to start saying, OK, this is going to be our main business from now on. Of course not, because we knew nothing about that. But we being foot fetishist ourselves, we knew that there was some kind of content that wasn't there. It was really, really hard to find the content that we wanted to see. And we said, OK, let's go and make it and see what happens. So it was, you know, middle way between having fun together, doing something that we loved and also learning something, of course.

[00:10:04] Ok, so you obviously have a great passion. And I know you said I know you have a passion for four feet, so you take mine.

[00:10:16] So what makes in your mind great foot fetish content that you didn't see that you wanted in your site?

[00:10:29] Well, it's, of course, kind of difficult to explain to you that you don't like feet, as you know. But the thing is, it was a mix of things, was a certain angles of shooting there, wasn't there? We didn't I mean, there was not many people should in the content, as we want to see, because there are some certain kind of pose of the model that we as foot fetishes love to see. And they wasn't there. And also what we really didn't see there, it was, you know, being some more open look for details like it's not like you you just put a model, shoot our feet and that's it. We wanted to do something more like making her wear some expensive stockings, expensive pantyhose, make it dressed up nicely, make it even even the location being a bit more important on the on the shooting. And so and also the fact that we as you said before, we don't shoot. Well, some of our content is no new content. There was was missing actually. There were a few websites doing that, but not enough. And mind you, many guys into feet, they want to see, you know, regular girls and something they can dream about being a girl that they meet everywhere. So being nude was something that was missing as well.

[00:11:58] So am I correct you? It's not that I don't like feet. I just like tits and ass pussy and legs more. So let me let me just clear that up.

[00:12:09] Ok, so what do you think the main advantages of a niche? Everyone says, well, nations are where the money is. Do you agree?

[00:12:22] I do to a certain extent. I mean, it's true that working in a nation gives you some advantages. And for sure, there is one which is less competition, even if that that's why we have so many websites, because it's not just about food. We don't like to call food fetish and each. Right. We because there are so many micro issues inside the food fetish that if you should correct that you will find less competition and more loyal customers because what what a foot fetish does. And anyone in the niche, I think you are so desperate to look in for the content. Exactly. The content you love and you have in your mind exactly what you want is not just feed again that when you find it is you want to pay for that and you will constantly pay for that if the company gives you the correct content. So that's why I mean, we have customers, members that are renewing their membership since like seven, eight years. So that's quite that. That's the advantages. Even though I said I said to a certain extent, because these days I think that they're really keen. Success is the way to you how to drive traffic to our site. You can sell anything online. If you know how to drive traffic, you just have to to match the right person, you with the right product. So so it's the same on a nation. The only thing is that in issue I have, of course, less competition and this more loyal customer, that's for sure, because you have lots of feedback. They they, you know, they start to be your main. It's like being in a family in a way. I mean with customers writing emails and requesting custom videos as well. And we became friends with them. You know, it's it's something that you bond together like that because they know we love the same things, you know.

[00:14:19] Sure. What are the main challenges of working in this nation?

[00:14:25] Well, I will not talk about the challenges about I mean, if you if you are not into fetish and you want to start producing content in foot fetish, because that's open up to a massive amount of challenges because you don't know what you're shooting, that's not our case. Right. But apart from that, the main challenge is to find the members, because, as I said, you have less competition, but there are less people that you can target. Sure. So that that's that's the main thing that I find the right source of traffic, because some of the common sources of traffic, even even toobs some tunes, even the biggest one, are not the best source of traffic for us, whereas other tubes maybe a bit smaller. They are good sort of traffic. So it's you know, when you when you have such a peculiar thing to do other times that the difficult part is to know where there are people that like that.

[00:15:25] Are there are there foot specific tubes?

[00:15:29] Yes. Yes. There are a few good foot fetish tubes. And also review sites are good, of course, and some message boards.

[00:15:40] Forums. Oh yeah. Yeah, that because. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And those are if you find the right because even in that there are some forums where you shouldn't even go because believe it or not, we've been treated really badly by some foot fetish communities, especially here. Yeah. Especially here in Italy. They would say you are making money over our passion. You should do it for free shoes.

[00:16:06] Yeah, they do. So this year, this is charity, folks. We spend our time and money for charity. So they actually actually say that more than once.

[00:16:20] Once.

[00:16:21] Oh, so OK, let me explain to you how the world works or exactly.

[00:16:27] So you avoid those people and then again, you find the right person, the right channels to to advertise your your account. But it's not easy.

[00:16:35] Have you put together your own your own troops and forums?

[00:16:40] We tried. Well, the thing is, we are lucky on that because I used to have a forum back in the day since 2003. I know that it's a foot fetish forum and it still exists today. Yeah, it's it's quite big. I mean, not huge, but he has 12000 members and their helped does a lot in the beginning because I could use that to advertise our size and everything.

[00:17:06] But apart from that, we always thought about building something inside our members area and maybe it will come in the future. But we still didn't really have our troops easy enough.

[00:17:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, to. I'm not sure it's worth it to build our own tube instead of, you know, advertising on others. It's, you know, we need to work. Might as well do both. Yeah. It's something that we still didn't do, but it's an option, of course.

[00:17:39] So what challenges to the last year, including shooty time to bring to your company?

[00:17:50] Ok, well, let's turn to 2019. Last year, which was mainly V.R. was the main challenge because that's the year where we finally started to produce VR. We've been trying to do that for a few years now. Right. And the thing with VR is that it's not easy to many things are not easy. It's not easy to find the perfect camera. It's not easy to. The production really gave us lots of issues because it was not easy at all. And also for us that we've been producing regular videos since 12 years. It was actually and a bit of a learning curve about how to shoot and what to shoot, because the kind of videos that you do, the kind of scenes that you do in VR have to be different than what you regularly do. There are a few things that you need to learn, like the fact that the content with the girls is very important and like the fact that in every video you need to involve the one watching that as much as you can. So a few things that we didn't we don't. Again, we knew nothing about.

[00:19:02] But in time we we try to adapt. And this year we are getting results because we are getting good feedback from from members. And so it seems we are getting there quite fast. Good.

[00:19:16] Then two thousand twenty came and. Well, where do they start from? Well, obviously, the coronaviruses was big for us because we had to stop production for about two, two months and a half, which gave us a bit of an issue because we had what we also do for custom for our members. It's custom videos. So basically they that request a specific video and then we create that for us. And we had a few orders in place that that we couldn't shoot and we had to to to to postpone that. Yeah. And also updating our sites was a bit of an issue, even not as much as we thought, because luckily we plan ahead. So our sites have about six months or even more of backlog. So didn't really the good. Yeah, yeah. It was a good thing. The only site decided that at some issues was the VR, because being brand new we didn't have that huge backlog. But anyway, we did manage to and what we still didn't see, but we expect that to come sooner or later was some sort of drop on memberships. So far this has been well, it's something we all hope not, of course, but it's something that you need to consider because the economic and economic consequences of of this crisis have been huge. And, you know, I mean, if it doesn't happen, I'm more than happy that it's OK. But it's something that we have to consider for the future.

[00:20:57] How was it being in in the league? I was watching a news show today about coronavirus and about how we remember Italy was ground zero. Yeah. And the Western world actually ground zero for the world for a while. And how was it to be right in the middle of Italy with all that going on?

[00:21:22] Scary.

[00:21:23] It was scary, I have to say it was because even though we are not in the north part, the big area that got massive hit was Melan and all the northern part of Italy. We are in Tuscany, which is a bit bit less right.

[00:21:37] But it was scary because you could see the numbers growing every day and every day and also the government every day taking stronger measures to actually date. They locked everything up. I mean, from one day to another, I, I didn't I couldn't meet my my parents because actually they were living just they are living 10 kilometers from here. But it was forbidden to go there because you couldn't leave the area. Yeah it was. But but it was scary and it was difficult to I mean, my daughter was she's she's nine years old.

[00:22:12] So for one day or another, she didn't go to school. And then slowly they start doing lessons online stuff that's there. But it wasn't easy lol.

[00:22:22] So what what I'm seeing now, it's being the first country now we are the first on the opposite side because things now are getting really, really bad up here. Oh I know so. And I still see other countries in huge problems. So you know, at least now we are you know, everything is more or less normal in Italy now apart from the, you know, measures. But it was tough. It was I mean, I was really scared about my for my parents, basically. That was the winner.

[00:22:53] Absolutely. So let's let's talk about them and see the person you talked about your daughter. I follow you on Facebook. Got a lovely family. Thank you.

[00:23:05] Talk about your talk about your home life and what you like to do when you're when you're not.

[00:23:14] Massee the the website owner.

[00:23:19] Well, thing is that, as I told you before, and this is not my full time job, I also have I actually have a full time job as a software developer in a company here.

[00:23:29] When do you sleep, by the way, is what I want.

[00:23:33] I was coming to that because I think if I work five days a week for a as a as a regular employee, eight hours a day and then feed for cash, it's all the rest. So weekends, Saturday, some days late at night, stuff like that. So when I don't work, I still work.

[00:23:56] But anyway, I, of course I enjoy you know, we we got in a new house recently and it's it's, it's lovely here. So I enjoyed some time with my family basically. And no, much really.

[00:24:10] I'm not going to the gym and stuff like that, but it's it's difficult to find free time that I do open the future to try to have my own my only occupation. And it's getting there. It is there. Good to hear. So thank you. It will be better at that time.

[00:24:31] You're still a young man. You want to stay that way. Oh, thank you for calling me young. Well, you well you look.

[00:24:39] Yes. So I'm forty four. OK, let's talk you. I'm 60 to come out. We won't talk.

[00:24:46] So just call me Poppa. So what are your what are your company's plans for the future, including for you as the co-founder.

[00:24:57] Yeah, well our company is this year and maybe the next.

[00:25:03] We are migrating all our sites, as you said, 18 paid sites to today elevated games and which we want to migrate every side because at the moment we had different CMS for different websites and it was really starting to be a mess to end everything. Sure. So once we complete this migration, which should be I mean, maybe before the end of this year or maybe a few months, then we want to invest into our affiliate platform because we think that our current affiliate platform doesn't give our affiliates what they really need to promote our sites. So we are evaluating a couple of solutions to to implement in there. But I think in 2021, we will be ready to to completely, completely change the program and bring some good news to our affiliates. So by the end of 2021, I hope to be there.

[00:26:04] And as as a as a cofounders as me, as I told you before, I hope to have more and more time to dedicate to feed for cash.

[00:26:13] Basically, I want to put aside my work as a software developer and just be fit for cash full time so that that's my plan. Yeah.

[00:26:25] So so I talk about the adult business in the last few years and then also going through. What are your thoughts on that?

[00:26:36] Well, in the last few years, I think the adult industry went into a direction that I really like actually, because it's more and more model centric and there is now it's for us content producers. We saw that basically any model, if she wants to work hard, she can more or less build their own business and be by yourself, which is great for me I think is great because models are what but the key of this business, without them, we wouldn't even exist. And I, I mean, I like the fact that they can become more famous. They can be the they can move their business, whatever they want. They can produce their content. They have platforms to sell the content and everything. It's just it's the other way. I mean, a few years back when it models was going to work for the company, it was something like she would gain something by working for the company. Now it's the other way around. Now, when we work with the model, especially if we try, we we work with models, with a lot of social media engagement and a model that already has around stores and everything. We are the one getting something from that because we get we got exposure and also we get to work with models that are already in the right mindset, because when you have your own business, you even your work is better through. So it that that's really what went into this years. And it's going to be like that for now on, I think, because campsites are going to be as important as always.

[00:28:19] And I think in the future VR is going to be a good part of the adult business. I'm not saying everyone is going to learn to have a varied set because I'm not seeing that happen anytime soon.

[00:28:34] But I see I think that every production company will start producing VR because in the end, when you get into the right, as I told you, you went you when you overcome the first challenges of that.

[00:28:50] Producing the can be well, for sure that the conversion rates are low on the outside is higher than any other site we had so far because the VR community is full of enthusiasm. So you have you get massive feedback and also people are ready to pay for these kind of.

[00:29:11] Also, mind you, that VR is at the moment the only apart from Kansas is the only way to to make porn that doesn't go well on YouTube sites. That's true. So, yeah. So what you OK, you can watch VR on two sides, but you don't have the right experience at all. It's it's not that it's really bad and looks bad and everything. So while the situation is like this, it's good for us producers, as you can imagine, because you don't have that kind of competition.

[00:29:47] So I do think that every producer will start going to the VR and of course, the technology that is going to be better and better as time goes on.

[00:29:55] Or by the way, aren't you afraid with all the sites and the models are having control of you in the future?

[00:30:03] No, I think there is space for everyone, because if a model produces content, it's she's she's a happy model. First of all, and for me, that's good, because as I told you, I think they have to be you know, they have to be successful because they are worth it. And also, you know, that's basically what we do, what we produce. It's it will stay like that because we have our style, our content that we produce and our customers want that. So, no, I don't see any as I as I told you, there is space for everyone and models are not going to be a competition for us. They're are going to be something like an asset for us. I mean, if we can cooperate with some models, we will gain something and they will gain something. So not at all.

[00:30:53] Ok, what are your long term goals when it comes to compete for cash? Where would you like to see the program in the future besides making ten million dollars a month?

[00:31:04] No, I wasn't thinking about that, but anyway, no, I'm not I did not do that for the money. Now, seriously, what I really I don't know if it's a plan or if it's a dream or if it's a dream that will become a plan, I don't know. But what I want to forfeit for cash, it's one day. To be a company that can live on its own, I mean, at the moment, as I told you before, it's all about me and my and the other co-founder, if it's me or him, stop working for the cash. Basically fit for cash doesn't exist. That's true. I want I want Fleetwood Cash to become one of the companies that no matter how people that work in there, it can go on by its own.

[00:31:46] And it's in your and then you can contact Adult Site Broker and sell it.

[00:31:53] Exactly. That's why I'm wondering that that's the only reason, because I love you, Bruce, and I want to give you something to sell.

[00:32:00] I know that. Yeah, likewise, by the way. Yeah.

[00:32:06] So give some advice to the people thinking of getting into this business. Would you recommend the business and what would you do if you were them and wanted to get into it?

[00:32:22] Well, it's always difficult to give a recommendation to others, you know, because we're all all the same. We don't have the same approach to business. But what I think that I learned in time is, first of all, you need to always respect your users. Your customers never sell bullshit. Basically, what I really hate, it's when people only think about the money. So there is a quick way to get money and screw people. They do that without even thinking twice. And that. What's that? That's the worst thing you can do to your own business because you're not building anything. You're just destroying things. And after you do that. I mean, you don't be to be ashamed. Don't need to be ashamed to say that you work in the adult business. Of course, I'm I'm trying to do the same. I mean, everybody at work, I mean, as an employee, they'll know what I do. Of course, it took time for me to be open to that and to talk openly about that, because you have the weird reactions and stuff like that. And the role is. Yes, yeah. But in the end, you you need to live good in a good way and you can't be ashamed of what you do, otherwise you won't be happy. So be proud of what you do and be open about that. Just I mean, of course I'm careful with my daughter at the moment because she's nine years old. It's too early, but it will come a time that little impressionable. Yeah. Yeah, of course. But it will come a time when I will talk to her openly about what I do. And I want her to be proud of me, even if I did it, because there's nothing to be ashamed about. And no, no, I don't think she will.

[00:34:07] And she'll be I'm sure she'll be proud and ashamed.

[00:34:11] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think the same.

[00:34:15] And also, if I need to give an advice to someone, because that's something I learn by myself, you need to attend one of the adult business events like the European Summit or whatever. You need to be there. You need to put your face to your business. Your people need to recognize you. People need to know who you are and you need to be out there. And that's that's very important, I think.

[00:34:39] Yeah. You're you're one of the more consistent site owners at these shows what what values you put on the events.

[00:34:49] I agree there is not a single event where I don't get back home with some business, it's I mean, because when you go there, people say, OK, you can talk by Skype. Why do you go there? Why do you need to go there instead of contacting everyone by Skype? Because it's different when you are face to face.

[00:35:08] You seal the deal in a matter of minutes because you can see in the face of the other one if he's a good person or not. And so basically, everyone there is there to make business right, still to fight and fight any opportunities, there are opportunities and you don't even imagine about that could be there.

[00:35:28] So, yeah, that said, we knew that that business is it's it's the main reason I'm in complete agreement, especially for sure.

[00:35:35] I know that your kids love it, too. Yes, it's great. Turn and dress like you. I'm a big fan of theirs, so. Yeah, yeah. You're in Italy. So how is the Italian market in terms of foot fetish?

[00:35:53] Of well, it's made up of many producers that are many foot fetish producers, but none of them are having the same approach to the business as we do. They are all basically single producer or who end up selling clips on clicks for sale DVDs.

[00:36:17] I want clips. That's it. And also, it's very rare that they put their face out there to business, to events like the European summit and everything. But of course, they do great content because I can see their content. It's it's it's great for their niche, especially not on, you know, not part of the foot fetish. But this you know, the big idea, Sam, and all the kind of fetish fetish that it is there.

[00:36:42] They do produce great content, but they approach the business. It's totally different than what we do. And on the affiliate part of the of Italy instead, I'm afraid it's I still need to find one good Italian affiliate centerfold fetish market. Mm hmm. Because they they prefer dating most of the time and they prefer the you know, the girl grab the money where it is and then change. So when it was about mobile, they were all mobile, then it came to dating, they were out on dating, and then or now there is no and all that and it would be older.

[00:37:24] So it's I mean, in my experience, I mean, if there are good things describing, I think you're describing the personality of a lot of affiliates macing in general.

[00:37:36] Yeah, I guess so. But there are good well, there are affiliates with different approach out there because we do have a few really good affiliates and it's great to work with them that that's why I told we want to invest in our affiliate program because we know there are good affiliates out there that they need tools to advertise us better.

[00:37:56] So. Well, Marcy, I would like to thank you so much today for being on Adult Site Broker Talk, and I really hope I can get you back for a future show.

[00:38:09] Yeah. And I thank you so much for having me here. It was really fun and great. So thank you so much again for the invitation.

[00:38:17] Thank you. My broker tip today is part three of how to buy a Web site. Last week we talked about the information you'll need to properly evaluate any site you're thinking about buying. Once you've done that and you decide you're interested in the site, it's time to make an offer. Before you do that, you need to decide how fair the asking price is. We always price our sites fairly. At Adult Site Broker, we found that overpricing a site is the kiss of death. In fact, if an owner insists on asking for more than a site is worth, I won't work with him or her. If you're working with a broker like our company, you can lean on the broker to help decide what you should offer. If not, then here are some guidelines. In the case of a pay site. If the site is going down rapidly and sales and profits, you shouldn't offer more than one to one and a half times annual profits. So if a site did one hundred thousand dollars in profits last year, the absolute most you should offer is one hundred and fifty thousand. If the site sales and profits are flat, then you should offer anywhere from two to two and a half times annual profits and a forsight sales are going up.

[00:39:28] You should offer from three to three and a half times profits. If the sales and profits are going up very rapidly, you could offer more as much as four to four and a half times annual profits. I've never seen a site sell for more than four and a half times profits. However, another thing to take into account and something that could change what I just mentioned is what it is that's being sold. If the site or sites being sold or in a very popular niche like Kam's or dating, then the valuations can be higher. It's all based on supply and demand. We'll talk more about the subject next week. And next week we'll be talking to Jay Kopitar, a.k.a. L.A. Jay of Why Not? And that's it for this week's Adult Site Broker Talk. I'd once again like to thank my guest Massee from FT for cash. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I'm Bruce Friedman.