Adult Site Broker Talk

At Adult Site Broker we broker websites and companies for the adult space. In this podcast we speak to the movers and shakers of the adult industry, in all aspects of the business. And we tell you how to buy or sell a website or company for maximum profit and with a minimum of trouble.

  Upcoming Guests

12/7    Jay Strowd – Co-Founder of AEBN
12/14  Jay Moyes – High Octane Heart Media and PR
12/21  Roger T. Pipe – Rog Reviews
1/4      Amy Marie-Merrell – The Cupcake Girls



Listen to Adult Site Broker Talk

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Vex Ruby and Shift D of Viro Live Studio. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 at adultsitebroker.com.

The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. That’s right now. When you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.

ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer an amazing opportunity. If you’re in the cams model management or fan site space or want to get into them, we have a private listing that may be just right for you. This company works with all major CAM sites and has access to hundreds of US based models.

We’re offering very limited information at the seller’s request. In order to maintain privacy, we anticipate multiple offers for this very rare listing. For more information, contact us at adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk are Vex Ruby and Shift D of Viro Playspace Vex and Shift. Thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 15s): Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (2m 16s): Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (2m 17s): It’s a pleasure. Now Vex Ruby is the world’s first advanced virtual cam performer and is the spokeswoman for Viral Playspace, an adult haptics driven VR social space. Vex is powered by Viro Live studio, the only software to integrate body tracking, haptic, tele, dontics, and campsite api, allowing anyone on earth to perform as an adult virtual avatar. Vex is a real live person, as you can hear, who streams as an avatar using motion capture.

Shift D is the founder and creative director of Viro, Playspace and Viro live studio. He specialized in animation and special effects at a AAA game studio for a decade until his lifelong passion for VR prompted him to go out on his own as an indie developer, the company developed a number of tools to handle vex body tracking, facial tracking, voice capture, campsite integration, and many adult haptic toys so she can integrate or rather interact with her audience who love her Playful Purvis.

She’s been doing this live stream for a little over two years now. The company wants to make Vex style of live streaming accessible to anyone interested in trying it, which is why they package those in-house tools. And what is now Viral Live studio? Let’s start out with who is Vex Ruby?

Speaker 4 (3m 38s): Well, I am known for it, like you said, being the world’s most advanced virtual camp performer and the ambassador for the live studio. I think that the thing that I am most well known for is, like you said, being very interactive with my audience. I would say the absolute best part of the work that I do is because that I have all these opportunities to take a more playful approach to camming. It attracts people that have that same playful spirit, that have that same want for safety and privacy and consent.

I have the most amazing community and that’s what Vex Ruby is most known for.

Speaker 1 (4m 23s): Okay. So where do you perform online?

Speaker 4 (4m 27s): The two main platforms that I perform on are Chatter bait and Cam four. Hopefully one day though we would like to be able to stream directly from Vero Playspace.

Speaker 5 (4m 37s): Yeah, we’re looking into streaming directly from Vero Live studio into Vero Play Space. So people with VR can actually be part of the audience and are part of the experience instead of just watching a video.

Speaker 1 (4m 51s): Hmm, yeah, that makes, that makes total sense. So how did you get started doing this Vex?

Speaker 4 (4m 58s): Well, about, oh goodness, 2016. So about six years ago I was with the Vero Play Space team doing pre-recorded experiences that you could actually find on Vero Play Space, which is on steam. However, we saw a place for using all these really cool toys that we have here, the high level motion capture, all the talent we have on the team to start doing a live stream. And I am so, so glad we did

Speaker 1 (5m 30s): A shift. How did you get from the point of development to where you are now?

Speaker 5 (5m 36s): I had a passion for animation and special effects. So when we, when I left the AAA studio that I worked at, I went into virtual reality cuz that was also a passion of mine and was just combining these two worlds together, making motion capture based virtual reality experiences. And then we saw an opportunity to bring this to the adult industry in the way we thought would be a little more our style, which is like Vex was mentioning sexy and silly.

And so when we took the technology and boiled it down to the core components so we can make it live, that’s when things really started to accelerate because it’s one thing to record a performance, it’s another thing to do all of this stuff on the fly. Oh yeah. So you can interact with everybody. Right. And we had a great time over those the last two years and like, you know what? We should bring this to everybody. And so boiling all of that technology down to something that you can get off the shelf was our goal and that’s why we released Beer Live Studio.

Speaker 1 (6m 51s): So talk about the development process of, of reaching the point you’re at where you can make this available to everyone. I mean what go, what goes into that process? What talk, talk about that because I’m, I’m interested in hearing about it.

Speaker 5 (7m 8s): It’s really going to the fundamentals of what makes motion capture work. We have a very advanced motion capture system here that tracks all these little dots on a suit. You, you see them in like behind the scenes footage of movies and such. Yeah. But it’s just track tracking a point. And with VR technology, the way it is expanding and becoming more and more accessible at the fundamental level, it’s doing the same thing. It’s tracking points on a controller or tracking points on an object. And so we take that data and we do a lot of math and we fill in all the blanks for the motion that might not be captured.

So there are only so many ways you can bend an elbow or bend a knee and such. And so we don’t necessarily need to have tracking points specifically on those things to know exactly where they should be. Being able to bring that higher level motion capture, facial capture and stuff to something a lot more tangible has been an incredible process. I also had to give props to Apple because they released Face id, which is an incredible face tracking technology in itself. So Sure.

Us being able to just say, Hey, use an iPhone. Now you have ungodly levels of face tracking that wasn’t available like seven years ago.

Speaker 1 (8m 29s): Oh, wow.

Speaker 5 (8m 30s): So they

Speaker 1 (8m 31s): Can, so they can actually use, they can actually use their iPhone to perform because of the face tracking.

Speaker 5 (8m 37s): Yeah. So we developed a side app called Vero Face Portal, which captures facial expressions, captures your voice and how you move your head. So when you are performing with full body your face, every single facial expression is captured with it. You can even stick out your tongue and the avatar does the same thing. It’s incredible.

Speaker 1 (8m 60s): Which I’m sure vex does a lot.

Speaker 5 (9m 2s): Oh, yes.

Speaker 4 (9m 3s): Oh, absolutely. And what’s more, we even have the base cap rig that I use on stream available on the website. We spent, oh my gosh, pretty much the whole past two years that I’ve been streaming developing the Vex helm.

Speaker 5 (9m 23s): Yeah. One of the key problems with having a, a phone attached to your head is the rigs out there are like $1,600 and they essentially put the phone in front of your face out and that causes a lot of torque to your neck. And so we developed a, a helmet for like 150 bucks where you, you slide it in the slot above your head, it’s much easier to have a phone on top of your head instead of in front. It’s like the difference of holding a jug of milk at arms length or up close, you know, here’s

Speaker 1 (9m 52s): One thing’s

Speaker 5 (9m 53s): So much better.

Speaker 1 (9m 53s): Here’s one thing I don’t understand though. You, you were talking about the, the, the suit you wear and the rig and everything else. How is someone elsewhere able to perform if they don’t have all that?

Speaker 5 (10m 10s): So if they have, say for instance, a HTC vibe or a valve index, these are VR setups, you can get what’s called a little tracker and you put that tracker on your shoe, on each shoe and one on the center of your chest. And with those three points of data, we’re able to tell which way your hips are bent, which ways your knees are bending, how your ankles removed, all of that stuff. And VR already tracks controllers for your hands.

So we’ve got that covered. And if you’re wearing a headset, we know exactly where your head is. If you’re wearing one of these X helmets with the iPhone, we get the same data from that as well. So with, let’s see, three trackers, two controllers that, so with six points of data, we’re able to make an entire human skeleton to animate.

Speaker 1 (11m 2s): Interesting. Interesting. So vex, do people really get off on animated characters and cartoons?

Speaker 4 (11m 9s): Absolutely. And the, and the funny thing is, especially when YouTubers, as we call ourselves, started to really take off, there was some worry among the caming community of it being something that undermined traditional caming. And that’s, that’s not the case at all. Most of the people that I would consider my regulars are, are coming to these caming platforms specifically to see virtual cam camgirl.

Speaker 1 (11m 37s): Okay.

Speaker 5 (11m 39s): A little background on that. The number one search term on porn PornHub is hentai, which is Japanese animation content. Sure. But the extra sauce that we put in our software is teledildonics control. So when vex in her virtual space sits on something that enters her, the deeper it goes, the more her actual toy vibrates. And so all the facial expressions and reactions and things are genuine, and we capture every bit of that for the performance.

Speaker 1 (12m 12s): Interesting.

Speaker 4 (12m 13s): So in the connection there is that the same people who are going on PornHub and looking up specifically heti aren’t going to be really going on PornHub and looking up like IL performers? Sure. They aren’t gonna be going on a Cheming platform and looking up traditional CAM models. They’re going to be looking up the Lew doers.

Speaker 1 (12m 30s): Yeah, no, that makes, that makes complete sense. I I do know that Geni is very, very popular.

Speaker 4 (12m 38s): It’s called Geni and it’s an art.

Speaker 1 (12m 41s): Yeah, definitely. It’s very popular in Japan. I know. Do are, are you getting a lot of traffic from Japan?

Speaker 5 (12m 47s): We see some traffic from Japan. Most of the analytics we get are for like our applications and experiences, and there are some sales there. Most of the, what we see is in the United States and in the UK region, but the v tuber community over in Japan is very, very large. But there’s not really any tools to do what Vex does. The other performers out there are cobbling together, whatever they can, which is why we decided to make the app in the first place.

Speaker 4 (13m 18s): Ok. Wrapping it up, all in a nice, neat little package.

Speaker 1 (13m 21s): Indeed. So vex, what’s different about camming as an avatar than, than regular camming?

Speaker 4 (13m 29s): Oh goodness. So many things I can’t take for granted, for one, that people necessarily understand what’s going on. For, for example, like the number one thing people will say, who haven’t seen my show before when they come in, I see it all the time. They literally say, wtf. Like, what the fuck? And whereas a traditional camgirl wouldn’t have to explain, oh, well here’s how I work, here’s how you play with me. I kind of have to do that.

I cannot take for granted that somebody automatically understands what’s going on.

Speaker 5 (14m 6s): Yeah. One of the things we see is, oh, this is a pre-recording or a cartoons. But vex generally greets people as they come in and they’re like, what? This person just greeted me. And they’re moving and they’re there. There’s feedback to that. And so it’s, it’s always fun to see that, that that moment of it clicks, this person is actually live and not a pre-recording.

Speaker 4 (14m 28s): Well, and the performance part of that, like making a point of greeting the people that come in by name for the sake of showing, no, this is not a prerecorded thing going on.

Speaker 1 (14m 40s): So vx, why VR instead of live camming when you could be doing regular live camming?

Speaker 4 (14m 48s): I mean, I could, but I have so many cool things that I can do on stream that I wouldn’t be able to like, tell

Speaker 1 (14m 56s): Me about it

Speaker 4 (14m 56s): With a snap of a finger practically, or rather a push of a button. I can go from being on a, a pirate shift to being in my space lab scene. I can wear several different outfits all throughout my stream. And it doesn’t take much time at all. I mean, and I gotta admit, it’s pretty cool to be able to essentially cam in a tank top and yoga pants and no makeup, but still look pretty awesome.

Speaker 1 (15m 27s): That’s true.

Speaker 5 (15m 28s): We have an interesting way of interacting with people because we have this technology. So like for instance, every time somebody tips a token, it, it rains a little bit. And when that, when that rain hits vexes clothing, it melts a little bit. So there’s this cool almost incentive for everybody to just make it rain, make it rain, and it literally by bit the clothes come down. But it also, like, we, we believe that safety promotes expression. And so that’s another big thing because vex is able to really just be herself and not have to worry about, like you said, yoga pants.

You can, and no makeup and stuff like that. You can just focus on expressing yourself at the moment and being really connected with the people.

Speaker 1 (16m 14s): Sure. So, so vex, have there been any, I don’t know, negatives, downsides to this?

Speaker 4 (16m 20s): Yes. But I, I tend to do one of two things. Either write it off as they just really don’t understand what’s going on.

Speaker 1 (16m 29s): Well, in what, in what, in what respect?

Speaker 4 (16m 33s): Well, they think that, for example, that I’m trying to skirt around the rules of the campsite by doing something pre-recorded or who is,

Speaker 1 (16m 42s): Who is

Speaker 5 (16m 43s): Oh, just people who come in as viewers.

Speaker 1 (16m 46s): Oh, okay. Okay. Got it. Go ahead. I’m sorry.

Speaker 4 (16m 50s): Not a problem.

Speaker 1 (16m 52s): When you said they. Yeah. Okay. And how do you handle that

Speaker 4 (16m 55s): By explaining, just, I have this little elevator speech about what exactly it is that they’re seeing. Also a way that I can deal with the negativity on, on the rare occasion that it even happens. Most people are too, really too busy having a good time to want to do that, but Right. The most you can do, whether you are a virtual performer or a traditional camp performer, make a big joke about it. Really?

Yeah. Crack it right back at them.

Speaker 5 (17m 28s): We, we make sure that Vexes stream is like, this is her space and everybody’s welcome to join in on the fun and interactivity, but Vex is in control. And so if somebody’s coming in here to just like wreck the place, that’s what the moderator tools are good for. But surprisingly, we haven’t seen that. Really not, that’s why it’s kind of hard to answer because much to our surprise, everybody has been very supportive and, and, and happy and, and positive.

And we didn’t expect that in this corner of the adult industry.

Speaker 1 (18m 2s): Well, I would’ve

Speaker 4 (18m 3s): Met, but those very same people Go ahead. I’m sorry. Come in and are like, oh my gosh, what the hell is this? Once I give that speech and I, I turn on all of my vexing charms. I’ve converted so many people and it’s just so fun to watch.

Speaker 1 (18m 20s): I bet. Yeah. I, I mean, I guess if everyone else is having fun and there’s one asshole that isn’t gonna really go over very well, right.

Speaker 4 (18m 30s): Yeah. They’re, they’re the one that’s gonna be seen as the party pooper.

Speaker 1 (18m 34s): Big time. So tell me about the reactions you get from those who’ve never seen anything like this before. You kind of alluded to it, but get into a little more detail.

Speaker 5 (18m 45s): You want me to start with this one? Yeah. So half the time we get people who are fascinated by the production value as we’ve seen it. And so they’re like, you can change clothes, you can change scenes. You’re doing all of this in real time. This is incredible. The production values are off the roof. And we get all the other people in there who have been there for a while saying, oh, you haven’t seen nothing yet. We have a whole, you’re

Speaker 1 (19m 10s): Probably, you’re probably getting a lot of fellow engineers in there.

Speaker 5 (19m 14s): Yeah, I can sense that. Yeah. Every now and then we get somebody who’s also an animator and like, holy crap, this is top shelf stuff. I’m like, yeah, thank you, thank you very much. But, but yeah, that’s, that’s from the tech side of things. But when it comes to the adult side, when somebody’s just there to see something naughty and they see this girl being silly and fun, when somebody tips and actually activates her toys or something, like, I’ll activate something and you’ll see it on screen and her facial expression changes.

There’s this contrast, there’s this magic moment where it goes from silly to extremely erotic that a lot of people react to. And so Vex has this thing, it’s like the three things you want. Oh

Speaker 4 (20m 3s): Yes. The three things that I have as goals on my stream make you come, make you laugh, make you feel safe. And you actually brought up a good point shift. I mentioned not being able to take it for granted that people understand right off the bat what’s going on. I do specifically explain to people who are new that I have real toys on my real body and when they tip, they do get activated. And so all of my reactions are totally real.

Speaker 5 (20m 32s): Yeah. And sometimes when she’s giving that speech, I activate toys in the middle so her voice just changes and trying hold her composure. And that’s, that’s the fun side. You

Speaker 1 (20m 42s): Guys must be fun. You guys must be fun at parties. The two of you.

Speaker 5 (20m 46s): It’s hard to, to move all the motion capture equipment though,

Speaker 1 (20m 50s): I guess, I guess. And, and vex vex, why don’t you talk a little bit about the reactions that, that you get from people who have never seen it before?

Speaker 4 (21m 1s): My favorite reactions are when I have other performers come in and they are either interested in converting to from more traditional caming to L tubing or even people who are already doing the L tubing gig, but they’re super impressed and they wanna collab with me. They wanna, they wanna be a part of it. That’s, those are always my favorite reactions.

Speaker 1 (21m 27s): That’s nice. Now Vex talk about working, which this is really kind of unusual in adult. Talk about working with a startup and how that’s been.

Speaker 4 (21m 38s): Well, the startup, you have to really believe in the message and the values that the company is trying to present. Cause I mean, obviously startups not gonna be able to give you a fat paycheck. Right? Right. And I think that’s the biggest thing is whether or not we started out, or even at this point really with a ton of money. I think that our values and our content will speak for itself.

Speaker 1 (22m 13s): Sure. That’s, that’s how startups get big. How do your fans typically find out about you?

Speaker 5 (22m 20s): Hmm. Yeah. This is one of those things where we could really use a marketing department.

Speaker 4 (22m 23s): Yo,

Speaker 5 (22m 25s): Most of the time we find people just stumbling in our streams. Yeah. That or they stumble in across our app in steam itself. And we try to cross promote wherever we can. But as far as that goes, we, we have an aggregator site called lutu.com and what it does is it highlights which l tubs are performing at that moment and when the last time they were on it, it just is basically a directory.

And so we’ve seen some level of success there where people are coming in and, and discovering us. But other than that, yeah, it’s mostly just happen surfing the web and finding of x you know,

Speaker 4 (23m 8s): Pretty much

Speaker 1 (23m 9s): Are there a lot of other performers doing this?

Speaker 5 (23m 12s): We’re at about, what, 30, 35,

Speaker 4 (23m 14s): Something

Speaker 5 (23m 15s): Like that. But there’s only a handful of L YouTubers who are really pushing the envelope and, and even fewer still that are managing to keep any level of following and things like, it’s a, it’s a really difficult world out there because most of them are, like I mentioned earlier, cobbling together, whatever they can. And there, there isn’t much out there to help them perform this way.

So that’s

Speaker 1 (23m 47s): True. They do need, they do need some equipment.

Speaker 5 (23m 50s): Yeah. They need some equipment, they need some software, they need the tools. And that’s why we wanted to enable everybody. Cuz we say Vex Ruby is the most, the world’s most advanced l tuber. We say that because at the moment that’s absolutely true by a long shot. Cause we’re, we’re lucky that we have the expertise and the knowledge on how to use all of this motion capture equipment and stuff. And this is definitely not something we expect everybody else to just, oh, I’m gonna invest $80,000 on motion capture cameras and whatever.

Yeah. So yeah. It’s, it’s one of those things where going through LTU and helping out all these other performers raise that bar to something that anybody else can connect to. Because that’s where the magic is, is the viewers connecting with the performers. Right. And if there’s just too much interference in how they move and how they react then is that connection is lost.

Speaker 1 (24m 50s): Immersion

Speaker 4 (24m 51s): Break.

Speaker 1 (24m 52s): Go ahead. I’m sorry. What?

Speaker 4 (24m 54s): Oh, I was saying that it creates a bit of an immersion break. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the other thing about there being so few people in the L tubing community is that we all find ourselves on the same page because there’s so few of us, we all want to see this be a more normalized way of performing. Sure. Our, all of our goal is to see it someday that people can pop onto one of our pages and know exactly what’s going on.

And the more people that are doing this, the more we have a chance to collab with others.

Speaker 1 (25m 29s): Right, right.

Speaker 4 (25m 31s): People to play with.

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): Yes. Exactly. So I mean shift, how do you gain critical mass as far as the performers go?

Speaker 5 (25m 41s): It’s a good question. If I find an answer. No, the thing is, the first thing we put all of our energy on was making sure that the facial expressions came through and then all the other things that I stare at in the adult industry. So we gotta get the physics right and we, and that’s all the way down. And so finding that point where that, that that spot where everybody is able to just not think about it when they can, I wanna do this, here’s what I need to do.

And there are many different combinations of hardware and things you can use right now, low budget or, or much more pro. There should be a solution that you don’t have to be a Unity developer or C sharp programmer or any of these things. We want somebody who has nearly no computer knowledge to be able to be able to do this. And when we start seeing other performers who are able to do that, that’s when I know we’ve, we’ve hit a really good spot.

Speaker 1 (26m 43s): So Vex, what advice do you have for a CAM model considering getting into viral play space? How do they get started?

Speaker 4 (26m 52s): The first thing I would say is do it, do it. Secondly, it is so, so important for anyone doing any type of camming to have a support network with other CAM models specifically for cross-promoting, doing shout for shouts on social media. But that is even more so because like I said, we’re still such a small community. That’s even more important to have the connections in like different l YouTuber spaces, like on Discord and on only fans and such.

Speaker 5 (27m 27s): Yeah. And absolutely get Vero Live studio. That’s really the only game in town right now.

Speaker 1 (27m 33s): Yeah. So Vex, what do you enjoy the most about what you do besides, besides being able to, to work in your yoga pants?

Speaker 4 (27m 43s): Hmm. I think the best thing about the way that I approach Cam is that I make people feel comfortable with their sexuality. I don’t take anything too seriously. I get to be silly because I’m a cartoon.

Speaker 1 (28m 0s): True. You never, you never saw Fred Flinstone get get too serious. Right?

Speaker 4 (28m 6s): No, I get to be more myself than I would be if I was too cam as my meat space self. And because that brings out this really authentic side of me, it helps other people let their guard down as well.

Speaker 1 (28m 24s): Sure. Makes sense. You kind of alluded to it earlier, should real camp performers feel at all threatened by virtual camp performers?

Speaker 4 (28m 33s): Oh, absolutely not. Cause like I said, it’s, it’s two very, very different audiences for sure.

Speaker 5 (28m 38s): Yeah. And there might be some cross interests obviously, but there’s no way that we would ever replace Oh no. Live or as you put it, meat space. But yeah, it’s, it’s just a, in addition to the adult industry, not a replacement. And for that I am grateful because if we were to try to steer sexuality in any way by re replacing other performers or outperforming other performers or however that goes, I think that would be a, a tragedy in a way because it’s finding yourself and exploring and discovery and sexuality that makes it interesting.

And that comfort that you had mentioned, VX vexes is key to that being okay with being interested in this and, and that and such.

Speaker 4 (29m 31s): Yeah. We’re looking to expand the variety in the Camon community, not diminish for sure.

Speaker 1 (29m 37s): That makes sense. So how much control vex do you have over your avatar

Speaker 4 (29m 42s): Control? As in like how she moves or,

Speaker 1 (29m 45s): I mean, how, how much control do you have overall on what she does, how she, how she performs?

Speaker 4 (29m 51s): Well, as far as the movements go, it mim mix exactly what I am doing with my actual body in real life. Like pretty much a hundred percent right. As for the character design, I was definitely a, a part of creating it.

Speaker 5 (30m 4s): Yeah. I mean, she’s tracked from head to toe, so every little subtle motion is, is captured and conveyed and there’s some magic there where you can see the leg quiver when you’re Oh

Speaker 4 (30m 17s): Yeah. Much to my sugar.

Speaker 5 (30m 19s): Or when you’re trying, when you’re embarrassed about something or you’re trying to mimic something, all of that comes through. It’s incredible. It’s, it’s a very interesting experience as far as control goes. Every now and then, we’ll surprise her with a new outfit or something so we can get that genuine reaction. This is Vex room. This is Vex space, and she runs the show. So she has absolute control over how she moves, what, who she interacts with, how she interacts this. Nothing is scripted by or or predetermined by any

Speaker 4 (30m 51s): Means. No way I can, everything is, I cannot act. It would not work if we tried to do that. And yes, I’m presenting as an avatar, that’s what people see, but it is my actual body that they interact with when they send tokens to like activate my choice, for example. And everyone in the studio and all of my viewers on the CAM shows are very respectful of that. So, and they give me, they gimme control accordingly.

Speaker 1 (31m 20s): That’s good. So what’s the biggest challenge of, of doing all this in vr

Speaker 5 (31m 27s): I would say right now is cost. Mainly because we’ve had the chip shortage and things along those lines. It can be a little bit difficult to find even the VR equipment. So that’s true. You can, this is why when we were developing the software, we wanted it to work with as little as possible to just get your performance out the door. So you can do something with just a microphone for instance. And we do lip sync with that. But the more and more you want to get into this, so you can say, okay, now I want head tracking, so get an iPhone, or I want upper body tracking, so get an Oculus Quest two and a couple of controllers, I wanna go all in.

So now you get some trackers and, and things like that. So it is really up to the individual how far they want to get into this, how much they wanna capture. But right now, I would say the cost of it, even though it’s not the Hollywood level, like motion tracking system, VR is still at a point where it’s, it’s a, an expensive thing to just invest in. It’s

Speaker 4 (32m 33s): Not a household item yet.

Speaker 5 (32m 34s): Yeah. Not quite,

Speaker 4 (32m 35s): It’s not like a toaster.

Speaker 1 (32m 37s): Yeah. And let’s talk a little bit about that shift because VR was introduced to the adult space I’d say probably six or seven years ago now. Yes. And I mean, I think everyone kind of expected that the, the hardware would’ve had advanced further in terms of being in people’s homes. Don’t you agree with that?

Speaker 5 (33m 3s): Yeah. One of the things that I noticed during that transition was the hardware was getting better, but the killer app wasn’t there. And so you have to take a whole other approach when developing for vr. It has to be for VR from the ground up. You can’t just tack VR onto something or you’re gonna make a bunch of people uncomfortable. Right. And so it was this conflict of existing content that people like versus new content specifically made for vr.

Yes. Plus you have something over your face. And right now vr most most VR experiences are tethered to a computer. Oculus Quest two is doing better about breaking that connection. But we’re almost at a point where VR is going to be simple. And what I mean by simple is that how you interact, how you put, when you put it on, you just get it, you understand it, you understand how it works. And the first thing I saw whenever I did VR demos is people would put their hands in front of their face, but there’s no hand tracking so they won’t see anything.

Right. But now we’ve got really decent hand tracking coming from a number of VR devices. And so little by little things are becoming more approachable for just the common, any, any common user.

Speaker 1 (34m 26s): I’m, I’m kind of surprised that it hasn’t been developed yet where there’s an actual monitor or television set that would give you some form of vr. I mean, is that, is that something that’s being worked on or is that kind of a pipe dream?

Speaker 5 (34m 46s): Well, the problem with the TV with depth perception is right, you can have something where you can sit down in your room and you can look into this other world, but it has to keep track of where your eyes are. And when you have multiple people in the room, then it can’t shift the image to give that depth perception. So that’s where it breaks down, is having more than one person. The, the solution to that is, okay, everybody wears 3D glasses, but then that has its own problems in itself. And we saw that industry kind of fall.


Speaker 1 (35m 18s): Did we.

Speaker 5 (35m 20s): Oh yeah. What is interesting in the horizon though, is the augmented reality side of things where you can have multiple people and like, okay, I’m gonna put this screen on the wall here and anybody who else who has got these glasses on will be able to see that and things. And so we’ve done some internal tests where vex could go visit somebody in augmented reality and it’s incredible stuff that’s coming for sure. But until then, yeah, it’s ar seems to be more of the solution for that.

Speaker 1 (35m 51s): Is that how ar is gonna work? Where, where there will be a screen or will the, will the image be right there on the glasses?

Speaker 5 (35m 59s): The image will be on the glasses, but as far as the eye can tell, it’s on any surface you put it. And because these are networked devices, anybody else wearing these glasses would also see the screen in the exact same place. I’ve done some mind blowing demos with some other people with early AR hardware where you, you leave a place and you’re like, oh crap, I left all the screens. Oh wait, no, they don’t actually exist there.

Speaker 1 (36m 26s): Yeah. Well I I understand Apple seems to be supposedly ahead of the game on that.

Speaker 5 (36m 33s): We, I think so the, the rumor mill certainly is pointing that way. When you look at the patents that are flying and the money that is being spent, it’s certainly suggest

Speaker 1 (36m 44s): Like they have any money. Come on.

Speaker 5 (36m 46s): Oh yeah. We’ve seen a number of other companies take a, a good look at augmented reality and meta Facebook is definitely one of those players and we’ve Sure seen, but it’s a really hard thing to do because you gotta have all of that technology boiled down to a pair of glasses. Nobody wants a bulky thing on their head.

Speaker 1 (37m 8s): Yeah, yeah, you’re right. I mean, I, I got an Oculus, I can’t say I’ve used it more than a couple times. I mainly got it to look at client sites that are in VR as a broker, but I mean, I don’t use it and I, I don’t know if other people are having the same experience. I I think that that might be one of the biggest problems.

Speaker 5 (37m 31s): Yeah. I call that the Nintendo we effect where everybody got a Nintendo, we played We Sports, and then that was about it.

Speaker 1 (37m 38s): Oh, well. Well hopefully, hopefully there will be, there will be more and more for people to watch in, in vr including viral Play space. So what are you looking forward to in the future as this whole thing evolves?

Speaker 5 (37m 52s): Let’s see it to become something that, oh, hey, I did this in VR and somebody else is like, oh yeah, I totally understand that Right off the bat. It’s, it’s, it’s just as common to talk about as anything else, right? At least that’s for me. What would you say X is something?

Speaker 4 (38m 9s): Well, as someone who is looking forward to one day being a licensed sex therapist, actually I look forward to the ways that BR has the potential to help people specifically who may be dealing with things in real life, such as physical disability, body or gender dysphoria or any other type of issues. A whole new way to explore their sexuality.

Speaker 1 (38m 34s): Makes sense. Well, vex and shift, I’d like to thank the both of you for being our guests today on adult site broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon. Thank you. Sounds good. Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of How to Buy an adult website. Last week we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a onetime payment or a deposit, if you’re gonna be making payments, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold, and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow.

Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. They’re a firm out of Washington DC and know, they’re not paying me to say this, I just use them, trust them, and I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a custom escrow or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller, and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions such as wiring information.

The escrow is open and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed. It all depends on what the agreement calls for. Whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal closing. Your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this and is on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now, in many cases, in fact, most of the time the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.

This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll have a very special guest. We’ll be speaking with Jay Strowd, the co-founder of A E B N. You don’t want to miss that. And that’s it for this week’s adult site broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests, Vex Ruby, and Shift D of Viro Live Studio. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk.

I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with adult performer Lily Craven.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is four years old. They’re currently the only free tube providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user requests and user provided content After moderation.

The owners started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it, and he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular on Reddit and Business Sword. The owners decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry. The sites visitors come back again and again due to its uniqueness. They have over 13,000 premium videos and most of them are 30 minutes or longer. With more videos and categories, the site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries.

There is no advertising being done for the site. All of the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic only 269,000 US dollars. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today an adult site broker Talk is Adult Star and podcast hostess with the most Lily craven. Lily, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 49s): Hello, Bruce. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (2m 52s): It’s nice to be had,

Speaker 1 (2m 54s): You know, talk to me in that sexy voice. I almost wanna do some, some phone sex with Lily, like your podcast here, but eh, it’s not our format, so I don’t wanna shock our listeners.

Speaker 2 (3m 7s): Oh yeah. But,

Speaker 1 (3m 8s): But I do wanna do it again.

Speaker 2 (3m 10s): Oh, I’m gonna have you back. Alright, so be prepared. Round two. Phone sex with Lily.

Speaker 1 (3m 15s): Oh, absolutely. Whoa. Yeah, I didn’t think my phone sucks. Was that good last time?

Speaker 2 (3m 21s): Oh, it was fabulous. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (3m 24s): Okay, good, good.

Speaker 2 (3m 25s): It was great. I’m ready for round two

Speaker 1 (3m 27s): For sure. Okay. You convinced me. Me too. Let me tell people about you. Milk performer Lily Craven has been in the industry. I’m glad you agree. For six years, starting as a webcam model and now she does adult videos. She entered the industry at the age of 40. During a divorce, Lily needed a way to make ends meet and wanted a little revenge on her cheating X. That may have been her original motivation, but today Lily calls the industry home feeling the need to make up.

For the years she was not in the industry. Lilly frequently attends industry events. She has become a familiar face among her peers. We actually had a chance to meet, which was awesome. Yes, her niches are big toys, dirty talk, big boobs and taboo role play. Her favorite niche, and I love this one, is the extreme mommy fetish Do Mommy, I love, I love saying Domy Mommy this.

This role allows her to interact one on one with many of her followers. Her most recent endeavor is hosting her podcast, as we spoke of earlier, phone sex with the Lilly, which yours truly has been a guest on. She interviews adult industry talent in, in Behind the camera Phone Sex with Lilly is everywhere. Fine podcasts are heard. So you have been a busy bee since we last talked. Oh goodness. Yes.

Why don’t you tell me some more about what you’ve been doing and maybe some of the events you’ve been at.

Speaker 2 (5m 5s): Oh, well, speaking of events, that’s where we got to meet in person.

Speaker 1 (5m 10s): Yes. Tempe, you

Speaker 2 (5m 11s): Traveled, you traveled from far, far away at the Why not Reunion in Tempe, Arizona. And wasn’t that in March or April?

Speaker 1 (5m 23s): It was in April.

Speaker 2 (5m 24s): It was in April. Okay. Cuz it was hot already, right? Yeah, it was

Speaker 1 (5m 28s): Starting,

Speaker 2 (5m 29s): It was starting to get

Speaker 1 (5m 30s): You living in Colorado. Everything is

Speaker 2 (5m 33s): Hot. Yeah, everything is hot, but, but it was a great event. We got to do, gosh, morning hike. There was the Go-kart races.

Speaker 1 (5m 43s): Wait, wait, wait. Was there a morning hike?

Speaker 2 (5m 45s): Yes. Did you miss it?

Speaker 1 (5m 47s): I must have slept through it. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (5m 48s): I did too. I’m gonna tell you a secret. I did too. But there was what? The go-kart races, the top golf. We had a blast. We got to hang out, went out to dinner together as a group. It, it was definitely a, a fun one. I’m so glad I went and yeah, I got to meet you there.

Speaker 1 (6m 8s): Absolutely. You forgot the speed networking that we hosted.

Speaker 2 (6m 12s): Oh yeah. So you hosted, I think that’s an fabulous event. And actually, okay, so it’s speed networking and we all move from spot to spot and introduce ourselves to each other. Do a little pitch of what we’re about. And I actually have gotten in contact with Sia. She was, what’s the name of her podcasts?

Speaker 1 (6m 37s): It’s called

Speaker 2 (6m 39s): Yeahs the, oh gosh. I forget. Should know this. I know. It’s like stripper. Stripped with

Speaker 1 (6m 45s): Stripped, stripped by cia,

Speaker 2 (6m 47s): Stripped by Sia. Yeah. And so I met her and amongst other people. But that’s one example of networking that we’ve actually followed through with. So that was, that was just a great event. It was great to see everyone. And we didn’t have to worry about fans and we just partied like rock stars, didn’t we?

Speaker 1 (7m 8s): We had a great time. Especially

Speaker 2 (7m 9s): That we sleep very much.

Speaker 1 (7m 11s): Especially, yeah, especially especially that night at the restaurant when a bunch of us went to dinner and that was, that was really fun. That

Speaker 2 (7m 19s): Was really, yes. Didn’t we have to walk somewhere? Remember we walked the,

Speaker 1 (7m 24s): We walked a bit. We walked a bit. I think your feet were starting to hurt in those heels.

Speaker 2 (7m 28s): Yeah, but you know that trooper,

Speaker 1 (7m 32s): You, you are a trooper. Yeah, we had some good friends there with us for sure. It was

Speaker 2 (7m 37s): Great. And then I went off to Exotica Chicago. That was an excellent one. It was so, there’s such a good turnout. So many fans, so many people. We all intermingled for about four days. We partied like porn stars and we, we partied like porn stars. But it was, it was a really good turnout, great event. Great to see the fans and all the talent and all the after parties and the after, after, after parties.

I always find myself at one or two of those. But it was just a, an excellent, you know, turnout. And I, I’m pleased with that one. And I got to go as talent and media.

Speaker 1 (8m 24s): Yeah. How was that? So

Speaker 2 (8m 26s): That, it was a little hectic, but I wish I would’ve had more time to do more. I feel like I didn’t get enough content when I was there as far as the media side, cuz I was splitting my time. Yeah. But I, I did get good stuff and it was fun. I just have to get a rhythm

Speaker 1 (8m 48s): Going. There needs to be, well, you need to split yourself in two. There needs to be two of you.

Speaker 2 (8m 53s): Yeah. But unfortunately, there’s only one of me in this world, so this is true. So, yeah. And I do everything by myself. So I really, I’m the cameraman, the, the sound, the everything. And then I was working a booth with signatures after dark. So that was, it was a lot of fun. I got to make, I was in a booth with like seka and, and Leslie Winston, nay, Jojo.

We had a blast.

Speaker 1 (9m 28s): Great. Great. So what else has been happening with you since the last time you and I spoke on the podcast?

Speaker 2 (9m 39s): Ooh, what else is happening with me? I would say that I am Rev, well, it’s gonna be season three of my podcasts. So I’m revamping everything and I’m gonna be on video now. Please help me. So I have been for two weeks, you know, doing my studio and making a podcast studio with your help. Of course. Oh, yes. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (10m 4s): Always happy to give you pointers on the, especially on the audio side, since that’s my specialty.

Speaker 2 (10m 11s): But you like, save me literally, because I don’t hear what you hear. Yeah. Cause I don’t listen to myself.

Speaker 1 (10m 18s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (10m 18s): Yeah. And so I need to start doing that. But also just the, you know, your studio and how you, the vibe you wanna give. And I am not a decorator, I’ll tell you that. Just to take that off my plate.

Speaker 1 (10m 31s): Well, I’ve, I’ve kind of acted as your podcast coach since you got going, since we first got planted. And it’s really been, it’s been a, a joy for me to do that because first of all, you listen and you take advice and you’ve, you know, well, and especially with the technical aspects of your podcast, they’ve just, they’ve gotten better and better from, from where you started. Oh,

Speaker 2 (10m 58s): Yes. And

Speaker 1 (10m 59s): You know, I mean, when I started my podcast, the technical aspects weren’t really good. When I listened to my early adult site broker talks, I, I’m a little embarrassed actually. The mic wasn’t that good.

Speaker 2 (11m 12s): At least you had a mic.

Speaker 1 (11m 14s): Yeah, well, yeah, I was

Speaker 2 (11m 16s): Using a handheld recorder like back in the day. Oh geez. On a speaker phone. That’s

Speaker 1 (11m 21s): Funny. Well, no, but I mean, you know, I, it’s been my goal to up my game. So my podcast sounds as good as possible. And I know you’ve done the same and you’ve learned from some of my mistakes and, you know, some of, some of my study and I passed it along and I’ve happily done so. So

Speaker 2 (11m 40s): I’m

Speaker 1 (11m 41s): Glad it’s worked.

Speaker 2 (11m 42s): So grateful for it because I, like I said, I I was just dumped into this, like clueless, had never even heard a podcast before. So you’ve definitely been my guiding light. Ah, well, or I would’ve been a train wreck. Well, I was a train wreck. But you’ve saved me from, you

Speaker 1 (11m 60s): Know, wouldn’t go that far. I wouldn’t go

Speaker 2 (12m 1s): That far. That’s pretty bad.

Speaker 1 (12m 3s): You were doing, you were doing okay, but you’re doing better now, which is great. So, so what about outside of the podcast? What about on, on the performance end? What’s been going on?

Speaker 2 (12m 16s): Well, I am gonna start shooting again, my Aunt Lily series. We’re gonna do a few with Dallas dom and come October when I go to exotica New Jersey, of course I’m gonna shoot with blush, erotica. They’re like my go-to p anytime we’re in town together, we are like, let’s hook up. So we already have that scheduled. Good. And I’ve been invited to go to LA for a few shoots. So right now the cost of airfare and all that, I think we’re kind of gearing towards waiting for, you know, events where we’re all gathering together and it makes more sense that way.

Speaker 1 (12m 57s): Yeah, absolutely. Spend a little extra time and get some work done.

Speaker 2 (13m 2s): Oh yeah, definitely. So,

Speaker 1 (13m 4s): So I mean, talk, talk about that. What are some of the challenges for models like yourself to make things work?

Speaker 2 (13m 15s): As far as,

Speaker 1 (13m 16s): Well, as far as far as like travel and, yeah, you talked about travel and the challenges of the cost of airfare Yes. And everything else. I mean, what are, what are some of the challenges and Well, especially for somebody like yourself who’s not exactly in the middle of Porn Valley, you’re in Colorado.

Speaker 2 (13m 34s): No, there’s, yeah. Well I’m try, we’re trying to change that. But there is, I know, I know currently no industry here, so I do have to travel for everything. We are self-employed, we are not rich. We, we pay for everything ourselves. Right. So it can get financially, especially with the prices going through the roof right now, yes, it can get, it can get pretty grueling, but all I have to do is just kind of tweak things to where kill two birds, one stone and you know, at the events plan stuff there while I’m already there, you just have to do things differently or you know, more, what’s the word?


Speaker 1 (14m 17s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 18s): Yes. So it’s not as free as it was before with the $29 flights where you can just hop, skip, and a jump over to another state. It’s a little bit more challenging right now.

Speaker 1 (14m 31s): Sure. With fuel costs. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14m 33s): Oh God yes. Talk about about that. That’s not,

Speaker 1 (14m 40s): Do you ever, do you ever spend a period of time down in Southern Cal to get some shoots in

Speaker 2 (14m 47s): Like LA or San Diego or Right. Or la Yes. I’ve been there a couple times. I don’t really do that much work out there, but when I go, I’ll make sure that it’s, you know, there’ll be several lined up shoots like that instead of just going there for one person. So I sort of gather them up throughout the year.

Speaker 1 (15m 10s): Okay. So let’s talk about, let’s talk more about your podcast. You’ve been doing it for a while now. Talk about where you started and where it is now.

Speaker 2 (15m 23s): Okay. So I started just standing in to do a interview here and there for another station. And that grew into, Hey, do you wanna have your own time slot? And I was like, oh sure, why not with my handheld recorder. And then I thought, God, this is so boring. Like these interviews, and it’s not that the talent was boring, but like, I wasn’t bringing what I believe a host should bring. I wasn’t Howard Stern or, or Joe Rogan or nothing like that.

So I thought to myself, well, it’s on the phone. It’s during Covid and what sells sex sells. Sure. So phone sex. And then I said, I’m gonna have phone sex with my guests. Yeah. The first couple minutes of each episode. And

Speaker 1 (16m 13s): I think it’s brilliant, by the way.

Speaker 2 (16m 15s): Oh, well it, at first I was going to tell them what, you know, hey, beforehand, you know, days before or whatever, when I schedule them, I’m telling them I’m gonna have phone sex with them. But unfortunately they would skip out. They would nohow, they would write a script. I, so I, so I said, but I said, I’m not telling anybody anymore. I think you were the last one.

Speaker 1 (16m 40s): Oh really?

Speaker 2 (16m 40s): And I said, yeah, I’m not, and I think there was only maybe two or three total that I did tell. And after people kept skipping out, I was like, you know what? I’m not telling them anymore. So now they’re all genuine, unknowingly subjected to phone sex with me. I tell them literally right when I’m gonna record.

Speaker 1 (16m 60s): Okay. I think it’s awesome. And you have had quite a roster of guests and will get more into that later, but have you been pleasantly surprised as to, to the response from the adult community?

Speaker 2 (17m 15s): Oh my gosh, yes. Yes. I, I’m, first I’m grateful. I’m so grateful and thankful for it being, you know, successful and that people are enjoying it. So that’s where there’s so many personalities and characters in this industry. Yeah. And they really just let low loose in the first couple minutes. So it’s always a hoo it’s something different every time. Yeah. So they have fun with it too.

And you know, you always get the, well, what, what? And I’m like, don’t worry, you’ll be fine. I’ll lead the way. Record. And so that’s worked really good.

Speaker 1 (17m 56s): The element of surprise.

Speaker 2 (17m 59s): Yes. And I’m gonna be doing season threes coming up. It is on video, but I am doing the big stars now. I’m worked with Tanya Tate. She has a PR company and so doing some of her talent starting tomorrow. So they don’t know about the phone sex either, so it should be fun. I I’m really excited about some of these guests that are coming up.

Speaker 1 (18m 26s): I bet

Speaker 2 (18m 27s): It’s gonna be fun. Is,

Speaker 1 (18m 29s): So who are some of the guests you, you have coming up on the podcast and I should tell people that this will run some time in September, so some of those may have already run. So you definitely need need to check out phone sex with Lily to see who she’s had and who she will have. But who are some of the more exciting ones coming up?

Speaker 2 (18m 51s): So just to name a few. I have, since Sage, I have Brittany Andrews, I am so excited about. Yeah. Misha Montana.

Speaker 1 (19m 4s): Ah, Misha. Yes. I know her.

Speaker 2 (19m 6s): And so that’s just a few. I don’t wanna give it all away. Oh, well I guess by now, by the time it

Speaker 1 (19m 12s): Airs we have run. Right. Just

Speaker 2 (19m 14s): Check it out. There’s a few. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (19m 16s): Definitely.

Speaker 2 (19m 18s): So I’ve got some good talent lined up. I’m really excited and I know they’re gonna bring their game on me. I’m gonna have to keep up with them. Seriously,

Speaker 1 (19m 28s): Lily, I never worry about you keeping up with

Speaker 2 (19m 32s): My dear. I dunno.

Speaker 1 (19m 35s): You’ve got, you have gotten so good at this.

Speaker 2 (19m 39s): No,

Speaker 1 (19m 40s): No, you have, you definitely have.

Speaker 2 (19m 41s): I’m, I’m taking it till I make it.

Speaker 1 (19m 43s): No, look, I’ve listened to Well, you have to do that. Everyone does that, including me. But I’ve, I’ve listened to some of your, your more recent ones and there’s a, there’s certainly a mark difference between when you started and where and where you are now. So thank

Speaker 2 (19m 58s): God.

Speaker 1 (19m 59s): Well,

Speaker 2 (20m 0s): It was a rough start.

Speaker 1 (20m 2s): We all learn. We all learn. So speaking of interviews, what are some that you consider to be some of the most memorable? Oh, besides me, of course.

Speaker 2 (20m 14s): Yeah, you. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (20m 17s): Okay. That’s the to that. No, ok. Besides me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20m 21s): I would have to say it was during, I think it was April or May. Jiggy Jaguar came and to my house in Colorado and we hammered out about six interviews with like Vanessa Valentine, the Hard stopper, James Barley. Jack Cannon. There was Christina Castilla and Kani Ki and Don Juan DeMarco.

Yeah. So we, we did back to back interviews and it was called Jiggy In The Who. So that was a lot of fun. He is a hoot. If you haven’t seen a show, oh my gosh, he’s funny. Love. He’s the one in the Santa, in the Santa Claus costume at the Exoticas. You can’t miss him.

Speaker 1 (21m 14s): Love to have, love to have him on on our podcast sometime. Oh

Speaker 2 (21m 17s): Yeah. He’s a fun one.

Speaker 1 (21m 19s): Okay. Well now that you’ve been in the, are there, are there any others that you you’d like to mention by the way?

Speaker 2 (21m 26s): Oh gosh. I would have to say memorable ones. They’re all memorable. Yeah. Like, I don’t wanna point out certain, I just remember that particular series was, it was not only back to back one after another, but it was, it, it was hilarious. Like it was just fun doing it. It was creative and, and I really enjoyed working with him. I would say that was the one that really stuck out.

Speaker 1 (21m 54s): What do you feel doing the podcast gives to you, Lilly, and how does it help your performing business?

Speaker 2 (22m 3s): Oh my goodness. I think that it has jumped me up 10 years in the business. Networking. Networking is huge. You don’t necessarily, you know, you’re not making money per se. Right. But the value of networking, that’s how I met you. That’s how I’ve met everyone. Sure. I mean, and I don’t know a better way to meet that many people and really dive into who they are. I’ve made friends with just everybody that I’ve, you know, interviewed.

It’s, I still continue to promote them. I just have their back. I’m fans when I see them up for awards. I’m all voting and I do, I become one of their fans and next to them peers. So it, it’s, it’s just neat to see all the different aspects of the industry, the people behind the scenes that really don’t get noticed very often. I mean, they’re the foundation that hold it all that makes it happen.

Speaker 1 (23m 4s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (23m 5s): They are great. So I, I just have met so many people and the value of that, just the friendships I’ve made and the business relationships are priceless.

Speaker 1 (23m 15s): Well, I mean, without the performers we have no industry

Speaker 2 (23m 18s): True. And without the people behind the camera, we don’t have an industry.

Speaker 1 (23m 23s): Well, it’s true. It all, you know, it absolutely, it absolutely all works together. But the, a lot of people will always forget this. And I don’t think performers are treated well enough without the performers. That’s our product. Okay. That’s, that’s the industry product. But a lot of people tend to forget that. But there’s no two ways about it that the industry, the performers are the industry.

Speaker 2 (23m 54s): True. And sometimes, I mean, as performers, they can beat dicks and literally, and, and not the best people to work with are not the most reliable. But at say, they still, there’s a reason why they’re the brand. Like Yes. I have to say they are the face of what’s bringing the viewers, the listeners, the buyers, everybody in.

Speaker 1 (24m 20s): Sure. Now, you, you talked about supporting some of the people that you’ve met through the podcast. I’m sure it works both ways. And I’m sure it’s also gotten you some gigs, right?

Speaker 2 (24m 33s): Yes. Well, yes, it definitely has. And that, that’s great because also you get to know him better. Like, I’ve been Alex Legend out of la he’s great. He, he’s from Paris, France. He’s the greatest accent in the world. But he’s invited me out to LA to shoot with him. I haven’t done it yet, but I’ve had him on my podcast. So I definitely, if you haven’t seen him, he’s a hottie. I I will make my way to LA guaranteed this year.

Speaker 1 (25m 7s): As you should. As you should. Yes. Now that you’ve been in the business for a while, what keeps you in the business?

Speaker 2 (25m 15s): Oh goodness. The people. Number one, the fans. That is my full, like, that’s what keeps me going. I like the creativity. It’s just, it’s, it’s like a baby, a project that’s mine. And I run every aspect of everything I do. So I like interacting with the fans. I like creating, I like listening to them and what they want. And it’s just, it’s so much fun. Like it’s, this is like, people say, what do you do in your spare time?

I work, but my work is so much fun. Like it’s, it’s, it just really drives me. It’s my purpose. Like, and I’ve never really felt that way about anything. I’ve never held a job. I was always fired. I didn’t, just didn’t belong in the workplace. And I never knew why. I was like, God, these people go to these jobs for years on a, like how am I gonna do that in life? Like, am I ever gonna have anything because I can’t hold a job and I just, I’m not someone.

I guess that, and I hear this a lot from people in the industry. I’m, we’re just not people that fit into that mold. That’s true. And that’s okay. It’s okay though.

Speaker 1 (26m 33s): Before you got into the industry, could you ever have imagined yourself in it?

Speaker 2 (26m 39s): No way. Never. Never, never, never. Thanks ex-husband. No, never. Never. I don’t, I wouldn’t, I didn’t watch porn. I don’t, it’s just not something that I ever imagined.

Speaker 1 (26m 56s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (26m 56s): Just a scorned woman. Yeah. Crazy ideas we come up with. Well,

Speaker 1 (27m 1s): And well, when we talked about this last time, you lived a pretty protective and stilted upbringing, right?

Speaker 2 (27m 10s): Well, yes and no. It wasn’t that they were trying to protect me from like, TV and what’s on it. It was basically go find something else to do. I grew up in San Diego. Go outside and play. Yeah. You know, we had a trampoline, we had horseshoe pits, we had a ping pong table, we had a jacuzzi, we had tetherball, we had everything in our, just our backyard. Yeah. And literally, this is when we used to play in the neighborhood, ride bikes. Go find something to do. Don’t, or like clean pick weeds.

Like there was always something for us to do. Write a report. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27m 46s): San Diego must have been a great place to grow up,

Speaker 2 (27m 50s): You know, it was. But as an adult I started, you know, realizing that this place is way too crowded. Traffic, the lines, I, I’m in Colorado now, it’s peaceful. I, we don’t have traffic, I don’t wait in lines. It’s just such a slower pace of life. And it’s where I belong now.

Speaker 1 (28m 12s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 2 (28m 13s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 13s): That’s, that’s really awesome. Now you, you talked about getting into porn to get revenge on your cheating act.

Speaker 2 (28m 23s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (28m 24s): How well did that go over

Speaker 2 (28m 26s): It? Well, he just says like, he don’t care. I thought he would, I thought I would make him like jealous, but no, it, it didn’t. And, but I just didn’t want it to be like, I was like, oh, I can’t screw his best friend or someone. Cuz then I’d just be a cheater like him and it would be about me. Oh, you did it too? Yeah. So I was like, no, I’m gonna do something much, much better and I’m just gonna do it for the world to see on the internet. And so it was good motivation.

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28m 56s): It got me going.

Speaker 1 (28m 58s): So we mentioned Colorado and Yes. You also said that there isn’t a ton of an adult scene there. So how does it work living in Colorado and working in this industry?

Speaker 2 (29m 15s): Well, you have to travel everywhere because there’s nothing here, but we’re trying to change that. I have, you know, with Nick Huntsman, Don Wa, DeMarco and myself have been gathering talent in the area. Well gathering meaning there’s not much to gather. But like Nikki has a group in Colorado Springs that she’s been working with. And it’s kind of, we’re gonna be having a mixer in for industry only, like sponsors and stuff like that.

But we’re inviting people out to Colorado and the local, you know, talent here to come and see what we have to offer. Great. You know, we’re gonna put on the mixer and, and you’re invited if you wanna come all the way from where you’re at. But, but we’re just, what we’re doing is we’re trying to invite everybody out here to say, Hey look, this place is worthy of it. We have this studio, this studio, you know, there’s a circle of studios that you can go to or talent you can work with and come out here not just for one shoot.

Right. You know, it can be financially. We we’re, we’re a company that believes in pain all their talent and, and basically puts you through a circle. Come out here for a tour for two or three, four days, do a bunch of shoots, make some money, and then leave and, and enjoy beautiful Colorado. It is

Speaker 1 (30m 39s): Here. That’s

Speaker 2 (30m 40s): That’s what, that’s what it, we really want y’all to see. It’s so much better than like LA or the, the weather, the pe like you can walk on the sidewalks. It’s clean air, there’s no traffic. Like, it’s just really something. And location. Locations. Locations everywhere. I mean, we have beautiful locations.

Speaker 1 (31m 1s): Yeah, absolutely. And any other motivations for people to come to Colorado to shoot

Speaker 2 (31m 8s): Money. Okay. We definitely, like I said, we, we wanna, we we, we’d compensate our, you know, our talent. But more than anything, I think we’re just trying to bring people our way to let them see how good it is out here just to spice it up to get something fired up here to where we’re not just like the, the Ohio on the map or like, who knows the Wisconsin or everybody. There’s no, that’s how Colorado is.

It’s just there’s nothing here.

Speaker 1 (31m 41s): Yeah. Have you done anything to like recruit like only fans or the like models to, to get into the performance side?

Speaker 2 (31m 54s): No, no. I don’t think it really recruiting. I think someone has to get into it on, you know, their will, their push, their drive. But I don’t mind helping someone, you know, the serious ones. But there’s so many people who come and go. Sure. As far as I did have, you know, the male talent dto, he, he’s great. Dallas Dom studios, he was a newbie that shot with me first and I took a chance on him and I’m so glad I did.

He’s in my series with Aunt Lily, he’s the nephew and he does amazing work. He’s here in Colorado. So I’m, I’m stoked and we’re gonna be meeting up, we were supposed to meet up today, but circumstances with vehicles, mine didn’t start today. I could a problem. Yeah. It was the battery so it was just putting it off, you know, till next week or something. But we definitely are gonna be doing some fun stuck stuff we’re gonna do.

Stuck. Have you heard of Stuck?

Speaker 1 (33m 3s): No. Why don’t you tell us?

Speaker 2 (33m 5s): So it’s porn where it’s, it’s where you are stuck like under the table or in a dryer or under the bed or in a weird position. And then you get fucked.

Speaker 1 (33m 17s): Interesting. Interesting. Now

Speaker 2 (33m 19s): Such a brilliant idea. I think it’s,

Speaker 1 (33m 20s): I think it’s a great idea. I kind of thought, I kind of thought you were gonna tell me that stuck would be your car broke down and you’re staying in some farm house’s. You and you fucked there.

Speaker 2 (33m 32s): Well kind that’s stuck in a predicament. Which is pretty

Speaker 1 (33m 36s): Much all isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (33m 37s): Isn’t all porn stuck in a predicament? Pretty much Your landlord tenant, your brother, sister, your like, everybody

Speaker 1 (33m 45s): I guess isn’t

Speaker 2 (33m 46s): That? Yeah. So, so yeah, this is just a knockoff of the actual stuck filming. And I think it’s sounds so fun cuz I’m extra flexible. So we’ll see where I get stuck. Oh

Speaker 1 (33m 59s): Wait, was that what you were, oh nevermind. You had a diff definitely a different image of the industry before you got into it. Oh yes. Than, than now. So how has your image of the industry and the reality of the industry in your mind changed from before and now?

Speaker 2 (34m 23s): I had a, a relationship where this person was like obsessed with Warren and it was just disgusting to me. I was just like, it grossed me out. I was just like over it because he’s always covered in Vaseline. Like just, just constantly just getting it. Yeah. And so I’m just like, it disgusted me when I remarried. He, he didn’t have anything to do with it. So he said, so I guess he was creating his own porn out in the neighbor’s yard or wherever else.

But you’re

Speaker 1 (34m 58s): Talking about, you’re talking about your husband.

Speaker 2 (34m 59s): Yeah. He was the one that was cheat. Mmm. So he was out everywhere. So anyways, so I really had this negative view on it I guess. And so I think now what I know is that first we’re all people, like there’s some of the neatest people in this industry. I can’t agreed stress that enough. Agreed.

Speaker 1 (35m 22s): The family.

Speaker 2 (35m 24s): Yeah. Oh my gosh. And, and they’re real, they’re like genuine people. And anybody who meets us says that like, we are so loyal to each other. We’re genuine. We we’re just like, we’re free spirited, nonjudgmental just a such a neat group of people and Right. It’s better than the, you know, the societal norms are just, I just never fit in. I didn’t fit in with my family. I don’t fit in just, but I fit in here.

It’s home. Sure. And, and that’s, I’m forever grateful for. And so I think that’s, it’s changed my perception kind of. I still have that flip side view of, of the fact that I think that it should be kept away. You know, it shouldn’t be just all over the internet. I think that Facebook, I’m sorry guys, but I think Facebook, if they don’t want it, then they have every right to say that, you know, we have our children on it.


Speaker 1 (36m 26s): It’s their sandbox, right?

Speaker 2 (36m 28s): Yeah. It’s like go play somewhere else. You know? And it is true if we go on there, we will mob up and take over the whole entire like

Speaker 1 (36m 37s): Platform.

Speaker 2 (36m 38s): Yeah. And so I think that, that we have to understand and respect those boundaries. I don’t like how it’s reversing things seem to be reverting back to our old ways of thinking. Like, you know, our bodies and like, I can’t even say phone sex with Lilly show. It’s only just a title. Like I, I don’t even, I’m not doing anything but chatting. I Yeah. It’s nothing that should be, I can’t write that word. Sex. I have to put dollar salary in a backwards

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): An x me. Tell me about it. It’s, they’ve gotten, they’ve gotten horribly, well we should say they’re ai, if you’re talking about Facebook has just gotten horrible with anything posted that could potentially be sex or nudity or whatever.

Speaker 2 (37m 29s): But, but they have to do that because if you allow us an inch, we are gonna take a foot like we used to beat around the bush about how we would do it, you know, and sneak around all the rules and do the tech. But, but they are like, literally they shut us down like they said. No, let

Speaker 1 (37m 48s): Give you, lemme give you an example. Okay. I posted a listing about a he I site. These are cartoons of naked people.

Speaker 2 (37m 59s): They don’t want that there though. It says that.

Speaker 1 (38m 2s): Yeah. But it’s not even naked people, you know.

Speaker 2 (38m 7s): Well, you know, the problem I have is like bras and well I get it, but bras and panties, okay, you can’t have that on Facebook. But women wear bras and underwear from little age, you know, their whole entire life seven days a week and they can’t advertise for it. But then again, if they allow us to, then it’s gonna be one porn person, two 10 that says, but she got to do it. And they’re like, but that’s a Haynes her way commercial.

That’s not the same man. And it’s just like they have to literally say no is no, like there’s none crossing this line. Nobody. And then because everybody starts pushing it their boundaries.

Speaker 1 (38m 52s): I’d almost bet money if you’re paying them that you’ll somehow get away with brass and panties

Speaker 2 (38m 59s): You, but you don’t, not on Facebook really. But you know, you know, the problem I have was Instagram because I did not cross any boundaries. I did not break a rule. I got a a notice from them that literally said, nothing you have done has made your account the status that it is right now. It’s not your fault. In fact, thank you, thank you for following our rules, our our terms of conditions. But you’re shut down permanently.

I even screenshotted it. I’m like, oh

Speaker 1 (39m 32s): Doesn’t surprise me. It’s their AI and I didn’t do, and their AI is flawed and they don’t care because they don’t, they don’t touch it anymore. They just let the, the machine learning take care of it.

Speaker 2 (39m 45s): Yeah. And I had like 40,000 followers. That’s not a lot to some, but that’s a good marketing group’s

Speaker 1 (39m 50s): A lot, you know? Yes. That’s a lot. And

Speaker 2 (39m 52s): They straight stripped it away from me. And if you ever looked at my, I never even had anything that remotely looked sexy. Like I don’t even on Facebook and if they’re owned by the same people, why does one let me there and the other, I don’t put anything that’s not, you know, and then you see someone with a million followers and they’re just like stupidity. Even their lips are hanging out, you know? And it’s

Speaker 1 (40m 16s): Stupidity.

Speaker 2 (40m 17s): Yeah. It’s just too much. And, and I was like, but look at the letter you guys gave me. So what’s this mean? They’re like, sorry. And I think it was guilty by association. I think the fact that I am tied to so many different adult talent that that’s why I went down. That’s just my guess.

Speaker 1 (40m 36s): But okay. Yeah. So, so one of your favorite niches is dummy mommy again. I love that. I love those words. Why don’t you gimme an example. I’ll be the son. I’m gonna try this anyway, this was your suggestion. I’ll be the son and you can be mommy. And I hope I don’t go to the Jewish equivalent of hell for this.

Speaker 2 (40m 57s): You might. How per are we gonna go? Well, hello son. Are you, are you getting a heart on right now?

Speaker 1 (41m 9s): Well, yeah, mom

Speaker 2 (41m 12s): Son, you, you know that’s not right. You can’t be doing that. I I’m your mom for god’s sakes.

Speaker 1 (41m 19s): Okay, I’ll stop.

Speaker 2 (41m 22s): Oh well, no, it’s okay. Don’t cry. Don’t, don’t be embarrassed. Don’t be embarrassed. Mom will help you. You’re just doing it all wrong.

Speaker 1 (41m 34s): Oh, okay. Well how do I do it? Mommy,

Speaker 2 (41m 37s): Come here. I’ll show you. But first we gotta get it wet. You don’t even have any lube and I can’t find any. So mama just put her mouth on it. Okay.

Speaker 1 (41m 48s): We sure that’s a good idea.

Speaker 2 (41m 51s): Oh yes. If, if it feels good. Okay. It’s good, isn’t it?

Speaker 1 (41m 56s): I guess.

Speaker 2 (41m 58s): Yes. That’s my boy. I’m so proud of you.

Speaker 1 (42m 1s): Thank you mom.

Speaker 2 (42m 2s): I love you son. A little curved.

Speaker 1 (42m 8s): Oh good. I’m glad we’re stopping there. Ah, but

Speaker 2 (42m 11s): It’s just, but it’s just fantasy. It’s, it’s, and it’s really, they don’t wanna fuck their mom. They do not. It’s, it’s just the dominant nurturing and it’s, it’s kinky, you know, and that’s, that’s what they like about it. So it’s been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (42m 27s): I love it. So how can the fans meet you?

Speaker 2 (42m 31s): Well, if you wanna meet in person, I will be at the New Jersey Exotica. I believe it’s October 21st or that weekend. Great. Come meet and greet. You can hang out with us. We party together. We all the fans are intermingled with

Speaker 1 (42m 49s): You can, you can, you can pretend to be your son.

Speaker 2 (42m 52s): Yeah. Oh, I like new sons. Yes, for sure. So, but yeah, that’s the way that, that’s my next opportunity to meet. Do a meet and greet. And then I, I don’t think I’ll be at DC just because it’s so close to Christmas and you can see me online. I do one on one, you know cam to cam all the time. Live privates. I do customs. Catch me on Sex Panther for sure.

Lily Craven. I have so much fun on that, that site.

Speaker 1 (43m 26s): Excellent. And before we go, why don’t you gimme some ways your fans can follow you.

Speaker 2 (43m 32s): Okay. You can follow me on Twitter at Lilly l i l y, Craven, C A V E n xxx. You can catch me on. I finally am on only fans. Great. Finally dabbling in it. So that is Lily Craven and mini vids. I’m definitely, you know, going strong there. And that’s lily cravis.com and my own website, lily craven xxx.com.

Speaker 1 (44m 3s): Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (44m 5s): See

Speaker 1 (44m 6s): And please listen to her podcast phone with Lily. I know you’ll enjoy it Lil my dear.

Speaker 2 (44m 15s): I was gonna say on Skyhawk after dark tv.com.

Speaker 1 (44m 19s): There you go. And, and everywhere fine podcasts are found, like I said. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44m 24s): Everywhere. Yes. Spotify, apple, Amazon, you name it.

Speaker 1 (44m 28s): Exactly. Well, Lilly Madeira, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk. And you’re welcome. I know we’ll get a chance to do this again at some point soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 39s): Yeah, cuz you’re coming online. I’m gonna get you next. Oh baby.

Speaker 1 (44m 44s): My broker tip today is part five of How to buy an adult website. Last week we talked about how to determine the value of a site, how to negotiate the sale, and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement. What should be in it? Well, your attorney will guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint. What is the date you’d like to close? Make sure you know that you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase.

By then, I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and it just causes issues. Make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records including 2257 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites. Of course, it should spell out any payment schedule if there is one who’s responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow.

And there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller’s situation. This assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your attorney so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Vex Ruby of Viro Live studio. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk.

I’d once again like to thank my guest, Lily Craven. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Kristel Penn of Grooby

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords.

As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner has developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third party sites. The store currently has no employees.

Aside from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business, SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Crystal Penn of Groovy Crystal, thanks for being with us today on Adult Side Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 45s): Thank you for having me, even though it took me very long to get back to you. So thank you for being so gracious.

Speaker 1 (2m 50s): Hey, if, if I’m anything, I’m persistent. Crystal received her bachelor of arts degree from George Washington University and holds a marketing certificate from Santa Monica College. She’s currently enrolled at California Southern University in their Masters in Psychology program and is a marriage and family therapist trainee at the T plus Center in Orange County. As the creative and editorial director at Grubby Penn uses her unique reach to foster community among performers.

With over 12 years of experience in the adult industry, she’s worked diligently to promote visibility and empowerment through sex positivity. She also serves as the executive producer of the Trans Erotica Awards, also known as the teas, An event that exclusively honors the accomplishments of the trans adult industry. Penn won the 2021 xbi Industry exec Community Figure of the Year award and the 2017 xbi Industry Exec Brand Ambassador of the Year award.

She’s presented numerous educational workshops and panels in both the adult and non-adult industries. For more information, you can visit crystal penn.com, that’s K R I S T E L P E nn.com, or follow her on Twitter at the Crystal Penn. Spelled the same way. How was that for your commercial?

Speaker 2 (4m 13s): That made me sound way cooler than I am, so thank you. I’m gonna definitely use that later somewhere

Speaker 1 (4m 19s): You may, May. Now, Grubby is the leading producer of trans erotica since 1996, founded by Steven Grubby. This powerhouse production company manages numerous membership sites and produces at least four DVDs a month. The company also hosts the annual teas, which started as a humble online competition and has since expanded into a successful two day event in Hollywood. Welcoming guests from all around the world, visit gro.com and the show.com for more information.

Crystal, what do you have planned for the 2020 threes?

Speaker 2 (4m 56s): So 2023 is cool because one, it is the second year we, we will be doing it in person since the pandemic. Nice. And two, it’s actually our 15 year anniversary. Oh, very good. Yeah, so we wanna do it up as big as possible. As you mentioned, we started out as a very, very humble online competition. And then we used to play, we used to have the event at like shitty little nightclub in Los Angeles. And so in our current form at the Avalon, it’s, it’s definitely the biggest venue that we’ve, that we’ve been, that been at, and we wanna keep growing there.

And so I’m working on some special entertainment for the evening for guests who who do attend.

Speaker 1 (5m 33s): Sounds good. Any announcements you wanna make?

Speaker 2 (5m 37s): None that, Well, I guess it depends on when this episode comes out. Maybe the safest thing that I can say is that we are going to make the official announcement for pre nominations on November 1st, and that pre nomination period is gonna run from then till November 13th.

Speaker 1 (5m 52s): Sounds good. Well, this is gonna certainly run after November 1st, but you and I are, are gonna get together on when the best time is to run it. Perfect. So, so for those who don’t know about the event, can you tell us more about the event and its history?

Speaker 2 (6m 7s): Yeah, so like I mentioned, it started as an online competition and mostly it was because we were frustrated, particularly Steven, with the lack of trans-specific categories at the major award shows. And so we thought, well, fuck it, we will just make our own, you know, And I think at the time it was this well-intentioned competition, but we didn’t really think that far ahead. We didn’t really anticipate the type of traction that we were going to receive from it. And I think the positive feedback, and obviously the, the show has changed multiple times since its first incarnation back 10, 15, 10, 15 years ago, essentially.

I’m very proud of the way that it’s sort of grown and taken its own shape. I think it’s been a very organic growth.

Speaker 1 (6m 53s): How has it changed over the years?

Speaker 2 (6m 55s): Well, the one thing that people will always say is that the name has changed. And so, like I said, when the, the competition was made, the name was different and it was using language that was not super affirming. And, you know, 15 years ago the landscape, at least in terms of of of language in pornography was a little bit different. Sure. And, you know, since then, I mean, that’s been the biggest thing that we’ve changed and something that we’re very proud to have changed. And I think in addition to that, the fact that we’ve moved to an in-person event and not just an in-person event at like a small club, but to, to really host it at somewhere as historic as the Avalon.

And then to have it be, you know, a two day event in which you, because like for for trans performers, this is the only event that honors them specifically. Yeah. And you know, I think other awards shows have made great strides to be more inclusive and I think that’s wonderful. They have different and larger platforms than us, but you know, this is the one time of the year where the trans adult industry is right at the forefront in terms of celebrating, which I think is absolutely important. So I think to see the event be in this form where it’s taken such a great, I think grand stage, I, I, I think is wonderful.

Speaker 1 (8m 5s): Talk a little bit about trans porn and how it’s evolved since that show had its first incarnation.

Speaker 2 (8m 15s): I definitely see more performers. I definitely have seen more diversity. And I think part of it is because, you know, the stuff that we talk about in porn that the issues that come up in porn, it doesn’t exist in a vacuum. So there’s often a parallel right, between the things that we’re discussing in porn in our industry and what’s happening kind of like in mainstream society. And a large part of it has to do with sort of l lgbtq inclusivity, you know? And especially like, I think awareness about trans identity and like trans community.

And so we’ve seen a shift in the last 15 years where I think, you know, trans porn was a very small niche. Yeah. And, you know, something that I remember encountering like in the industry was like, there was a lot of, there was a lot of stigma, you know, And I think that that has started to shift in terms of conversation, whether it’s sort of like business to business or, you know, within performer community, I, I definitely see much more openness and acceptance.

Speaker 1 (9m 13s): Yeah. I, I mean, to me, trans porn used to be kind of in this little corner and there was Steven at shows and I’ve always had a ton of respect for the man. And I mean, I remember talking to him when he had pretty much first gotten started and just had a few sites. And now to see where it’s come today, it’s just mind blowing.

Speaker 2 (9m 39s): Yeah. It’s come, it’s come such a long way. Like I definitely remember, and obviously I haven’t been in the industry as long as Steven, you know, but even when he and I used to do the shows like kind of in the beginning of my career, I remember, I remember how people viewed us, you know, I remember our place in the industry. I remember what doors were open for us and what doors were not, you know, And I think he had to really endure kind of being in this corner of the industry that was not super like, I think well respected and not

Speaker 1 (10m 8s): Prestigious at all. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (10m 10s): No. You know what I mean? And I think Steven has always been kind of the mindset to like, do it anyway. Yep. You know, and not be, and I think to his credit, not be super bothered by the lack of, I think, you know, acceptance in that way. And I think that’s really helped to pave the way to make the genre like what it is.

Speaker 1 (10m 27s): No, he doesn’t, he’s not bothered by much and quite frankly

Speaker 2 (10m 30s): Not.

Speaker 1 (10m 31s): I, I love his ad, I love his attitude. It’s like, it’s no nonsense. It’s no bullshit. He gets right to the point and he gets things done. And I can’t respect that more. I, I just can’t. So I, I’m, I’m a big fan of his, huge fan of his, What’s it like to attend? And maybe one of these days he’ll actually come on my podcast. What’s it like to attend the teas? How does it compare to other industry events?

Speaker 2 (11m 1s): So I’ve been told, and this is no disrespect to the other events, but I’ve been told by folks that it’s the, the most fun of the award shows. I like to liken it to like, we’re like the goth table of the industry where everybody is invited, everybody is considered a misfit. Like it is, it is purposely a very inclusive space. Sure. And I mean, I think part of the reason why is because our event is smaller so we’re able to cultivate that type of community. But it, to me, it feels like an event where you’re invited, like, and not just invited, but like, we’re excited that you’re here and that you’re participating, that you’re celebrating.

And I think because of that, it, it feels like a very, very joyous occasion.

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): I mean, just gimme an idea from start to finish, how the teas go down kind of put us in the room.

Speaker 2 (11m 50s): So we used to do it, we mixed it. So sometimes we used to do it as a pre-party, sometimes we did it as an after party. We’ve played around with the scheduling because we were trying to figure out when people were getting the most drunk when, when they were getting the most drunk and figuring out which events they were gonna come to depending on how drunk they were. So that’s the formula that we’ve been, that’s classic. That’s cause you have to do math, right? Cause it’s like if people get too slosh on one night, you know, what is the likelihood that they’re gonna miss the other thing? And so the formula that we use now is we do a pre-party on Friday and then Saturday nothing.

So people can be hungover, it’s fine. And then Sunday we do the awards and then no after party. And we, we find that doing it that way allows people to get excited to see people that they like and then basically sleep all day Saturday and then I guess part of Sunday.

Speaker 1 (12m 40s): I love it. So that’s pretty drunk. So how long have you been working for Grubby and how did you get into the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (12m 49s): So, very random story. I, I got into the adult industry about 12 years ago and I, I was having an existential crisis in Hawaii where I was like, I’m gonna write the Great American novel, but also I don’t wanna do anything. And I was taking nightlife photos in Hawaii for a bit and our accountant was somebody that I knew socially. And so we had a meeting cuz she knew I was looking for work. And she’s like, Oh, you know, can you, can you use Photoshop? And I was like, Yeah, I can do Photoshop. She’s like, Okay, well it’s porn.

And I was like, Okay, whatever. She’s like, Well it’s trans porn. I was like, okay, whatever. And so I interviewed with Steven and he hired me. And so originally I got hired to be a photo retouch and I was, I was terrible at it. And I think that I only got hired because I knew the accountant and I knew someone else that that worked for us. And it took me on my first day of work, eight hours to Photoshop out toilet paper from a butt hole. I was like, I was so terrible. Like, I don’t even know if we used those, those sets, but they were awful. And, and the next day I remember Stephen was training me on something and he realized that I could write that that was actually where my forte was.

And so he’s like, Oh fuck, I’m not gonna have you do photos, I’m gonna have you write. And so I started to do blogging for grubby and I used to do some webmaster stuff and I kind of just worked my way up, worked my way up the chain to create the position that I have now.

Speaker 1 (14m 10s): So what all does the position you have now entail? What are your job duties?

Speaker 2 (14m 17s): So, no, no, but whole Photoshopping thing. So I’ve, I’ve gladly moved out of that sphere indeed. Yeah. And so, you know, we’re, we’re still, we are still a small company and so we all in some ways wear multiple hats officially. Where my job, what my job entails is kind of like in focusing on how our brand is perceived by the public and then the aspect of it in terms of like community outreach. And so what can we do for our performers, how can we do right by them?

And then a large part of my job now is being the executive producer of the tees. You know, even though it started out as a small event, now that it’s the size that it’s at, it requires we’re months of planning. So that’s a like where the bulk of my year goes to now.

Speaker 1 (15m 3s): Yeah. It sounds like quite an undertaking. People don’t realize what it takes to plan an event like that. Do they?

Speaker 2 (15m 11s): Yeah, I think they don’t realize how long it takes. And I think how expensive it is, everything costs money, you know what I mean? Even just the cost to rent the venue alone, like for an evening is like well over $10,000. You know. And so I think the mis assumption people have sometimes is that like, we’re making money hand over fist running the event. But the truth is that like we price our sponsorships specifically like at a low rate compared to other award shows because we’re not trying to make money.

And also we want to encourage folks to buy into community if they want to. And so, you know, then a model can sponsor versus it only being, you know, limited to big corporations sponsoring events. So we wanna see more diversity in who supports it essentially.

Speaker 1 (15m 56s): Yeah, that’s great. I would, I would imagine that the inflation rate in America has really hit events like the teas.

Speaker 2 (16m 7s): It’s been rough. Like we’ve, even though things have cost more, we, we are trying to be mindful of the fact that it also means that people’s money is not going as far. And so we actually very seldomly raise our prices. So like this year and last year, our prices are identical. And last year we had a clause where if we, if we had to cancel due to Covid because we also were unsure of whether we would be able to go through it, that that we, we would basically refund everybody and just take the loss.

Speaker 1 (16m 36s): Wow, that’s phenomenal. So what are the most rewarding things about your job?

Speaker 2 (16m 41s): I’m sure my answer might have been different 10 years ago, but now I’m old and seasoned and stuff. Well

Speaker 1 (16m 47s): That’s because you’re not getting toilet paper outta but holes. Right.

Speaker 2 (16m 51s): I definitely worked my way up and like, I think when I was younger, like what felt really rewarding was like being able to like go out and socialize and meet folks. And that part still is very important to me now to a certain extent, but like Steve, I’ve worked for Steven for so long and he knows that I just wanna, I wanna do certain things using my privilege and using like the platform that we have. And so he has in some ways given me free reign to do so. And like, and I tell him this and he will tell you this as well, that like my focus is not on making money and maybe that makes me a bad business person, but he, I don’t think he has hired me for my sole purpose of like being a great business person who wants to make money.

It, I, I wanna make money, don’t get me wrong. But I think I’ve always been interested in the community aspect of it. So like how can we support the folks that we are making money from? I think that there’s a way that like it can be a very symbiotic relationship where like we can help them and, and they can help us and that there’s enough to go around for all of us to be successful. So like, you know, for example, Steven or, or Grubby basically is sponsoring a therapy support group that I’m gonna get to run through the center. And so folks, trans sex workers will be able to join for free because grubby is sponsoring the cost.

So stuff like that, like I really appreciate the platform Steven has given me to pursue things that are like non-traditional.

Speaker 1 (18m 13s): Right, right. No, I mean there’s, there’s no doubt the commitment that you guys have to the trans porn community, I mean it’s, it’s very easy to see.

Speaker 2 (18m 25s): That means a lot to me. Cause I think our industry is small in comparison to like mainstream and also I don’t think we are a company that doesn’t get flack. I mean we get flack all the time for things and I think sometimes it feels discouraging that like, you know, we can have good intentions and it falls flat or you know, things get misunderstood. And so I, it makes me happy to hear that the way that we are perceived is a positive thing.

Speaker 1 (18m 52s): Oh, I think so. I think so. Well the old saying you can’t please all the people all the time. Very,

Speaker 2 (18m 58s): Very

Speaker 1 (18m 58s): True. And in this day and age, sometimes you’re gonna alienate somebody with anything you say.

Speaker 2 (19m 6s): Right.

Speaker 1 (19m 7s): So that’s the unfortunate part of today’s world with social media and PC and this and that. It’s just, it’s impossible not to offend somebody.

Speaker 2 (19m 18s): Yeah, it is a, it is a very tricky thing and I think like for Steven and I, we have a lot of internal conversations about that because his meter for stuff and my meter for stuff right, are different. And so we get into it a lot and like it’s helpful because I think it helps us to see like how many different points of view around something can be.

Speaker 1 (19m 38s): Sure. Yeah. I mean it’s, it’s important to discuss things because if it’s just one person making the decisions, like in my company, sometimes those decisions are not going to be all that positive. I think I do okay with that. But it’s good, It’s good to have more than one person to have as a sounding board.

Speaker 2 (20m 0s): Yeah, I think so I think it’s helped us to like mitigate what could be mistakes and also to like, I think unders like really I think to understand kind of like there can be multiple answers to the same problem, like multiple solutions

Speaker 1 (20m 14s): Of course. So what is one of the most challenging aspects of your job?

Speaker 2 (20m 19s): I think that there are no, there are not enough hours in the day. And because we all wear multiple hats, our, our time gets divided up in weird ways sometimes I think it’s gotten better. I think we’ve streamlined, but I think what’s challenging is like, I mean the reality of it is we’re still a small company and we only have enough, like certain number of hours in the day and we only have a certain number of staff. And so to me there are sometimes like really great ideas that we have that we just can’t execute cuz we don’t have the time to do so.

Right. And so to like, to I think release attachment to those, you know, those kinds of dreams I think is the most challenging thing for me. Cause there’s so many things I wanna do.

Speaker 1 (21m 0s): Of course. So what are some new projects in the works for Groovy?

Speaker 2 (21m 6s): Let’s see. So we are, we, we have a magazine that we’ve been publishing Ruby Girls Magazine, which is free and for community, we stopped that at a certain point during the pandemic and also, like I said, short of short staff. And so we’re gonna bring that back. The other thing that we’ve been working on, which will be announced soonish will be a hall of fame that we’re working on, which is separate but related to thet show. But we would like to honor folks in our communities for the work that they’ve been doing.

Speaker 1 (21m 38s): Very cool.

Speaker 2 (21m 39s): That sounds

Speaker 1 (21m 39s): Excited. Yeah, that sounds like, that sounds like something that would be very, very well received.

Speaker 2 (21m 45s): Yeah, we have these other projects that I can’t quite name yet, but they do have this. Oh. Kinda like it’s not gonna come out until next year, I think that’s why. So, but we have these things where the initiative is kind of focused on how we can honor and celebrate like the performers that work with us. And so we’ve definitely have been putting intentional time and energy to see how we can help elevate those folks.

Speaker 1 (22m 8s): Okay. So what’s something unique you learned as a result of being in the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (22m 14s): Before working in the adult industry, I had this preconceived notion of how I thought I had to do business to be successful in any field, you know, and some of that, it just is not super congruent to who I am as a person. I’m very like, I’m very passive. I wanna do the right thing. Like I’m very, I’m not, I’m not super shrewed as a business person, but I think I had this very young preconceived notion that in order to be successful I needed to, to operate in the industry this way.

And especially because I, I don’t look like the other folks in the business sector of the adult industry. I’m Asian, I’m very, very short. I look how I look and so I know that I don’t come to the table in the same way as other folks, but what I have learned is that like I haven’t deviated from that. I haven’t, I haven’t acted in any way that has been untrue to who I am. Like I am nice. I believe in the sharing of resources, I be believe in community and I’ve been very fortunate that I’ve been rewarded for those things.

Yeah. And I don’t think that that’s spec, I don’t think that that would’ve necessarily have happened for me in any other industry. But for whatever reason it has all come together in a way that it is, it’s, it’s validated my identity to say that I don’t have to be anybody else other than myself to succeed. Which is I think a wonderful, and I think, I dunno a very lucky lesson.

Speaker 1 (23m 37s): Well I think it says a lot for the adult industry because you can be who you are. Let’s face it, we’re all outcasts. Okay? Yes. The industry, the people outside, a lot of people outside the industry think of us as outlaws, not just Outkast. Yeah. And if you, if you look at all the negatives being thrown at the industry now, not to mention the negatives being thrown at the transgender community, we won’t even go there. We’re people who are very accepting of everything you have to be, if you’re in the adult industry, nothing should phase you.

Nothing should make you go, Oh God, that’s terrible. Right? Because something, everything we do turns somebody on. And that’s a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 (24m 25s): I think like what’s also been interesting when we talk about like social capital that like for me and my identity, how I, how I have to walk through the, like the real world, like the non-industry world, like, you know, I’ve been bullied, I’ve been ostracized, all of these things. But like in the adult industry, right? Because like you said, we’re all, we’re all misfits to certain things. We’re all, we’re all sort of like outcasts that like it’s honored differently, right? Difference of identity is honored differently than I think it is in the real world.

Speaker 1 (24m 53s): Yeah, I I would agree. So I hear you’re also currently in grad school. We were talking about that before we went on for psychology. Now what would you like to do with your soon to be degree?

Speaker 2 (25m 5s): So I would like to create a certification program for therapists who wanna work with sex workers. A complaint that I hear and, and, and a big reason actually why I decided to go into therapy as sort of a secondary career is because so many people, not just like in our specific part of the industry, but in the industry overall talk about wanting to seek mental health services but not receiving competent care. Right. You know, and this is obviously a community that deserves to have competent care and deserves to access it. And so needs it absolutely needs it.

Absolutely needs it. And so how can I use my privilege and my experience to bridge that gap, you know? And so I wanna create a certification program. I’ve been doing these educational workshops for sex workers to teach them how to find a competent affirming therapist. And right. I’m starting a, I think I mentioned earlier, like a trans sex worker support group, which will branch out and there are other support groups that I wanna offer, but like, how can I create like safe mental health spaces specifically for sex worker community? And so those are the things that I, that I would like to be working on or are working on in the next I guess few months.

Speaker 1 (26m 9s): That’s awesome. Are you doing anything with the pineapple support?

Speaker 2 (26m 13s): I don’t. They do some wonderful work. The focus that I have because I work at the LGBTQ center is to funnel source funnel resources. That way when it makes sense for folks who are in California and like the purpose of me doing the workshop is that for folks who end up not using pineapple support, either because they transition out of the industry or do use pineapple support, but want extra tools to figure out who’s gonna be a good fit. Like the ideas that the tools I give them can be used for anybody, whether they go through an organization or not.

Speaker 1 (26m 43s): Sure. What do you like to do? This is gonna kind of sound like a, a little bit of a pun, but what do you like to do in your free time?

Speaker 2 (26m 53s): Oh yeah, there’s no free time, but every once in a while I’ll play music or I make, I make content like mental health content on TikTok. And that’s been actually a, a nice like space for my brain to take a break. So I’ll play, I’ll play a little cheesy, you know, Whitney Houston cover songs on TikTok or I’ll talk about sort of mental health, you know, topics and, but yeah, that’s, that’s few. I will say it’s been few and far between. I should probably, I should probably do it more often now that you mentioned it.


Speaker 1 (27m 23s): What’s your, yeah, what’s your instrument of choice?

Speaker 2 (27m 27s): Guitar if only because piano is not super convenient and I’ll play, I usually shoot it in my car as little like short, you know, one minute clips. But yeah, I think

Speaker 1 (27m 37s): Guitar, I can’t get a piano in there.

Speaker 2 (27m 39s): No, I, I mean I wanna get those little tiny like eighties casios and so maybe that’s

Speaker 1 (27m 44s): Next. Yeah. Very cool. So you also own, and this is the reason you have no spare time cuz you do so many things. You also own your own marketing and PR firm, and I hope I get this right, e key guy marketing. Yes. Did I do okay with that? Perfect. So when did you start that? I’d ask you for phonetics, When did you start that and what does it do?

Speaker 2 (28m 6s): So Ikigai and Japanese essentially means reason for being, and it, it’s become a concept that’s been fairly popular in the last few years and it looks like a Venn diagram where it’s like what we’re good at, what the world needs cetera. And in like, the middle overlapping piece is supposed to be our reason for being. And, and in 2000, I think 16, in 2016 when I was at Avian, I remember this distinctly, Aubrey, Kate and Foxy came up to me and they were like, You should do pr. And I was like, well I do marketing for grubby, you know, like I already have, I already do something.

And they’re like, No, you should do, you should do PR to represent to us because there’s nobody who understands our community in the same way. And I was like, Oh, maybe, I don’t know, I have to think about it. And you know, I kind of brushed it off. I thought they were being very kind, but I was like, well I’m not qualified to do this, you know, And I, I thought about it and I talked to Steven to make sure it was okay. And then I, I started off really small, you know, I took on only a few clients at the time and the idea behind Eki guy is that like, I don’t believe that there’s one, And, and Ruby has been very helpful in, in me creating a blueprint for this.

But like there’s no, there’s no one blueprint for success. And also because I was working exclusively at the time with adult performers that like, I didn’t wanna give them marketing advice that felt incongruent to who they are. I didn’t wanna give them that. I didn’t wanna be like, Hey, it’d be really great if you did anal and did this. And it was like, you know, on their no list. And so, you know, I made them fill out this very lengthy kind of life coach questionnaire. And part of it is like my therapy background is like, how can we help performers identify what is their eki?

Because I believe that if we can identify that, then the likelihood that success will be the most sustainable for them will be higher. Because like when someone tells you to do something and you don’t wanna do it, the likelihood that you’ll do it and follow through over long period of time is very low in my opinion. Very true. Right? And so how can we help, how can I help performers identify what actually makes them the happiest or what feels the most congruent to them, you know, and as a brand and how can I center my marketing around that? So it started with the two of them and has since branched out.

And I work with not just adult performers, but I’ve worked with sex educators, I worked with Penthouse briefly, I work with therapists. Yeah. I worked with restaurants. And so it’s really run the gamut at this point.

Speaker 1 (30m 28s): So you actually found a way to merge counseling and pr.

Speaker 2 (30m 34s): Yeah. You know, and I think I, I have to think groupy for this part as well, is that like, I mean, Groupy has been in business for 25 years. 25 years. Yeah. I think it’s 25 years. And how do you convince somebody right to pay for their porn at this? Like in this day and age it is near right. It’s, it’s, it’s a very big hurdle for us. And I think what we identified as a company is that like, it really is in the emotional connection that our company makes with whether it’s the content or the company itself makes with buyers that tells them to choose our company over piloting our stuff or choosing another company.

And I think that that piece is the part that I use for Eki guy because I think it, it translates over very well, even though it seems, I think random on the outside.

Speaker 1 (31m 16s): Yeah. The tubes are certainly a challenge because a lot of content goes on there without the company’s authorization and other providers are on there. And I know, I know Steven’s very, very good at, at removing content. We’ve had this conversation before. So I mean, how do you fight that battle?

Speaker 2 (31m 40s): I mean, in some ways it’s a, it’s a losing battle because I think totally stuff goes up, right? Like quicker than we can take it down. It doesn’t mean, I mean, it doesn’t mean that we don’t do our due diligence and still do it though, you know what I mean? Like, so even though we know it’s in some ways a losing battle, like we work really hard to get stuff removed, You know, we work really hard, I think to put up content that we consent to putting up, we put up clips so that we were still getting the traffic and we’re still getting the brand awareness, but we’re controlling like what is putting, what is being put out. And I mean, the other thing which I mean, I don’t know if Steve, Well I think Steven would say this is that like we go after people who steal our content and then, you know, we, we, we tell them, if you don’t do this or don’t do that, if you don’t take it down, you know, we’re gonna proceed legally.

Which I think, you know, titillates Steven to a certain extent because it’s like putting power back in our hands.

Speaker 1 (32m 31s): What amazes me is that some people put entire movies, entire clips onto tube sites. It just, I mean, how is that gonna help you sell anything?

Speaker 2 (32m 44s): It’s like, it is so shortsighted on their part. And I think there’s also this kind of, this other culture that’s happening that’s like the pi like pirate culture, you know, where there’s like no loyalty to anybody. It’s really just to steal content and then to just put it up. And so that’s like what we’re competing against, essentially.

Speaker 1 (33m 2s): Well, yeah. And that’s not, that’s not just in porn. That’s in mainstream movies. Yes, that’s in music, that’s in everything’s, it’s, and it’s something I hate. I still buy CDs, you know, I, I don’t, I don’t even, I don’t like the quality of, of the online downloads, the, the mp3. So I just, I still buy CDs because I, I believe in supporting the artists, many of whom are my friends. We’ve got a lot of friends who are jazz artists and I’m not gonna rip them off. It’s not gonna happen. Now some of them have sent me their albums in, in rather audio file form and that’s great, you know, but my, my preference is to buy it is to make sure they get credit.

Who are some of your clients with Iki Guy?

Speaker 2 (33m 46s): So on the adult industry end, I have Foxy, I have Jamie Kelly, I have Mme. Morgan, who else? I have Domino Presley. I also signed Lindsey Banks, who is a, a cam performer who just actually celebrated her 10 year adult industry anniversary this month. That was pretty cool. Yeah. Great. I think that’s all I have right now in the adult sphere. And then the other folks I work with are all in like therapy practices

Speaker 1 (34m 12s): And they need marketing too.

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): I’m hoping I’m not forgetting anybody. Maybe we put in addendum if I,

Speaker 1 (34m 17s): It’s okay.

Speaker 2 (34m 18s): I don’t get in trouble.

Speaker 1 (34m 21s): So what is the sad but Rad Club? Nice name. I see it’s a project you’ve been working on as well.

Speaker 2 (34m 28s): Yeah, I don’t, like I said, I, I don’t sleep. I probably should, but I, I started Saba Rad Club during the pandemic, which probably makes the most sense. And it was like, yes, at least here in the States, there was a part of the pandemic where it really felt like we were in lockdown. And maybe actually they even called it that where you weren’t, they really like, encouraged you not to leave the house. Yes. And it wasn’t great, you know, and honestly, like, I’m too old to use TikTok, so I was trying to figure it out. I don’t know how to fucking dance. And so I couldn’t figure that out. I couldn’t figure out the, you know, the buttons on there.

And I actually, my account was gonna be a groovy account, so it was called, you know, it was like Crystal, it was like my name, It was like Crystal Pan. And I, I started to make kind of weird, weird like pandemic isolation content that I thought was creative but like, was really pandemic brain. And I noticed that like the stuff that I did that was mental health related got really good traffic, like way, way more than like other stuff. And so after a while I thought, you know what, I’m gonna pivot what this account is and do something else.

And I thought, oh, sad A rad club. You know, it encapsulates kind of what I believe that like we can hold all of these identities and it doesn’t make us any less of who we are. And, and I’ve used this platform to help destigmatize what it means to be mentally ill in the stigma around it. And I think I’ve also used this platform as a funnel, I mean, basically to talk about destigmatizing sex work, which, you know, it, that’s not the focus of the platform, that’s not the focus of the account. But like, I use my messaging and I use even just me as being like a pseudo public figure to talk about sort of normalizing what consensual sex work is.

Speaker 1 (36m 10s): So where do you find your inspiration for videos? For the Sad but Rad Club?

Speaker 2 (36m 15s): It’s really from, I mean, we were in pandemic lockdown for quite some time, so some of it came from that. It came from like really just being stuck in the house and having it, all of that stress of not knowing what was going on. And like, my content has since shifted, so like it parallels what’s going on in my, in my real life. And so I talk about being in grad school and I talk about, you know, being a therapist trainee, but early on when I was in the pandemic, a lot of it was actually grief focused.

So by the time I made sad, but RA Club as a TikTok account, like our, my coworker and my friend had passed away from cancer. Like, oh jeez. Yeah, it was, I don’t even remember. It was a few months before. And so a lot of the content in the beginning was really just working through my grief and having, you know, I think having a platform to do it and not really expecting or hoping other people to consume it. It was really just, I think for my own process. And, and since then it’s shifted, like I said. But I think in the beginning I had less foresight into like, specifically what my content was gonna be because I didn’t know.

I didn’t, I didn’t, I don’t, I didn’t, I didn’t set out to create it. And also like we were in a pandemic and it felt like the world was on fire.

Speaker 1 (37m 29s): Yeah. Felt like the world was ending.

Speaker 2 (37m 31s): Yeah, it was, it was scary. Like I, I just listened to this podcast called Serial and they had a three-part episode that talked, it talked about this woman who lost her dad and her brother during Covid, like the height of the pandemic. And it talked about like, she was going through their text messages and seeing all of the, the, the paranoia about Covid. And I think at the time, you know, like the information that they’re passing along, like, oh, the vaccinated people are actually the dangerous ones cause they’re shedding the virus. I think about, you know, what, what the pandemic looked like then and it’s, it’s, I know it’s not that long ago, but it feels, it’s kinda wild to think about our conceptualization of like the pandemic now versus then and how much, Right.

Like I think how scary it was for folks and still is,

Speaker 1 (38m 17s): Well it’s still, it’s still not completely over A lot of people want, People want, a lot of people wanna say when there was a pandemic, there’s still people getting covid and there’s still some people dying. Yes. Now I’m not sure the exact meaning of the word, the exact definition of the word pandemic. We may, it may not fit that anymore, but still people are getting covid and still people are dying. Friend of mine, I was down at the Catalina Jazz Festival at the end of our trip and I had lunch on Monday, a week ago Monday with the friend and she got Covid.

Speaker 2 (38m 52s): Oh, fortunately,

Speaker 1 (38m 53s): Fortunately I didn’t.

Speaker 2 (38m 54s): Right.

Speaker 1 (38m 55s): She poured, she poured her, she poured her, she thought she’d be funny and she poured her martini into my drink, into my, into my Bloody Mary. Fortunately it was alcohol. So, you know, I didn’t get anything but it

Speaker 2 (39m 7s): Was spared.

Speaker 1 (39m 8s): Yeah, no kidding. If it was anything but a martini, I’m sure I would’ve gotten Covid. Right. So if you weren’t working in the adult industry, where would you be and what would you be doing?

Speaker 2 (39m 19s): I think angsty 20 something year old me, which was me before I started working for grubby would say that I would be a writer. And I think that’s probably, I think I would be writing or creating something in some capacity and maybe I would be very poor because who knows if I would be good at it or not. So there would be that, like I do think that mental health in some capacity would’ve also come up at some point. Like I think I would’ve, I think me being a therapist was just a very natural fit. So I think, I think I would’ve in some ways taken the same path even if I wasn’t in the adult industry.

Speaker 1 (39m 51s): Yeah. I’ve, I’ve got all the respect in the world for the mental health industry. It’s, it’s something that I utilize as a very small child. When my mom and dad were breaking up and I was like, I don’t know, six years old, eight years old. So look, it’s something I’ve always believed in. It’s something that I’ve always said as very important. Shouldn’t have a stigma. And I’m a very proud bipolar as well. So there you go. So

Speaker 2 (40m 20s): I love that you like, name it like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40m 23s): Hey, 30% of the population, we’re not even, we’re not the majority. I think it’s, I think it’s something to be proud of, so I love that. Anybody wants to know it. That’s fine. They can know it, so it doesn’t bother me. Well ate, I’d like to, I’d really like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon.

Speaker 2 (40m 45s): Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And like I said, for making space for this conversation, it, it really means a lot to me,

Speaker 1 (40m 51s): Means a lot to me as well. Thank you. My broker tip today is part four of How to Buy a website. Last week we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer, the work begins. If you’re working with a broker, I don’t know, let’s say adult site broker for instance, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer, they may make a counteroffer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them.

A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site. You should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day, and any other pertinent questions you may have during due diligence.

You need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically, to integrate it with what you’re already doing. You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask those pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself draw up a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to do the agreement themselves. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules.

However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney change some of those rules. Nothing’s final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we do for our clients is a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent, and more so the agreement will have all the terms involved, including who pays for everything, who pays for escrow, for instance. This can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties.

We’ll talk about the subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with adult performer Lily Craven. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Kristel Penn of Grooby. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Steph Sia of the Podcast Stripped by Sia.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!

That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a successful gay site that has increased revenues and profits year over year for a decade. The site has 835 active members. The average monthly content cost is less than $2,000. This year’s average monthly net profit is over $18,000.

The best part about the site is that it basically runs itself. The director producer is happy to continue handling all the content, production, editing, and updates. All you have to do is to continue to take care of payroll and you’ll make your complete return on your investments safely and quickly. The content is hardcore gay porn with a strategic focus on a few niches, which all have been fine tuned for over 10 years into dependable, underserved markets. All of the content is exclusive with an influx of cash and a dedicated team to help grow the brand.

There’s a lot of opportunity. Some of the content is on d d and vod, but there’s a huge opportunity to increase VOD revenue streams. Best of all, if the buyer doesn’t change anything, it will continue and make a significant profit only $990,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and adult side broker talk is Steph Sia from the podcast Stripped by Sia. Steph, thanks for being with us today, an adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 53s): So excited and thank you so much for having me, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (2m 56s): Thanks for being here. Now Steph Sia is a stripper, a digital content creator and pole dance instructor based in Vancouver, Canada. She’s the host of the Sex Worker podcast strip by Sia, and she always enjoys a good bowl of noodles, much like my Thai wife Strip By is a podcast dedicated to destigmatizing the sex industry by sharing the lived experiences of the workers. Steph Sia, a sex worker of varying mediums, invites different guests onto the show from all corners of the adult industry to provide a transparent approach to the work that we do.

Each episode tackles a topic that affects sex workers with the aim to educate those who both are and who aren’t in our industry, as well as humanize and legitimize it. Join Steph every Sunday for new episodes, wherever find podcasts are found, and on Patreon at patreon.com/strip by C. That’s spelled s i a to see the video exclusive content. So how was the commercial Steph?

Speaker 2 (4m 9s): It was spot on. It was excellent. Check, check, check. You crossed it all off the list. Thank you so much for that fire intro. I

Speaker 1 (4m 16s): I, I do my best. So Steph, what was your entry into sex work?

Speaker 2 (4m 22s): Oh gosh. Well, I, there’s a couple different things here. So I have a few different phases when it comes to sex work, so, okay. I guess my official intro to sex work would actually be as a sugar baby. And this is probably about, yeah, almost a decade ago. And I had joined a very, I guess, well recognized website that is known for sugaring that was introduced to me by my roommate at the time. And basically, this is kind like around the same time that Tinder came around and my friend was like, Oh, why go on these dating apps when you can get, you know, paid to be on dates?

And I was like, Oh, well, sounds kind of interesting.

Speaker 1 (5m 1s): Exactly,

Speaker 2 (5m 2s): Try, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (5m 3s): It’s great to be, it’s, it’s great to be a girl. I’m envious.

Speaker 2 (5m 7s): It worked out and she was completely right. I was very, very interested in doing that and made a lot of sense to me. And yes, I really believe in making a bit of money. So that happened. And you know, I, I would say that like that’s my first official kind of intro into sex work. Although at the time I wasn’t really aware of it being work at that time. Yeah. So like that to me upon like reflection that that would be it.

But if you’d asked me that, like same question about five years ago, I would’ve said stripping. So in my entry into the strip industry was about six years ago when I decided to enter an amateur night contest. And yeah, the rest is history for, that’s pretty self explanatory,

Speaker 1 (5m 58s): Is that, you know, the whole term sex work has really morphed in recent years, especially in the last couple years, I’d say. It used to be if someone said sex work, they were strictly talking about prostitution. Right Now it, it has a much wider meaning. Have you, have you noticed that?

Speaker 2 (6m 21s): Oh, absolutely. It’s definitely come a long way and, and as you mentioned, like that’s like how my mom thinks when she thinks of the term sex work, she thinks it’s prostitution or escorting, you know, you’re having sex for money. And now I feel like the term, at least to me in my own definition, that really encompasses a wide range of adult related occupations. And some people would even argue that stripping isn’t included with that. But I definitely would say it is for sure.

But the term itself has definitely come a long way. And I think it’s because a lot of the terms that we once used before, they’ve had derogatory, derogatory terms and, and stuff associated with it. And now I feel like sex work as a term is, is almost like a PC way of addressing like adult workers.

Speaker 1 (7m 17s): Yeah. And I, I think that it really now entails everyone who’s involved with the adult industry, including what I do.

Speaker 2 (7m 26s): Yeah, definitely. I mean, it’s basically encompasses everyone who’s within the adult industry for sure. Like people that on my show, not just people that are in front of the camera or performers, but everyone as you mentioned, who is involved as well. So,

Speaker 1 (7m 43s): Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, how have your experiences doing sex work changed over the years?

Speaker 2 (7m 51s): Oh gosh. I feel like it’s constantly changing. I’m constantly evolving in learning and educating myself through the people that I bring on my show and just more and more that I like hear about every single day. And basically, oh gosh, I feel like when I first kind of stumbled into sex work, I was really naive before and didn’t really have a firm understanding of what the work was. Like I mentioned earlier, I didn’t really count sugaring, for example, as sex work.

But of course now because I’m super involved in many different aspects of the sex industry, I can really see the value and the hard work that goes into the work that it is that we do. And really, how do I say it? Like for me, it really is legitimized as opposed to before I would always like maybe kind of brush it off in terms of like, Oh, it’s just like a side gig or it’s a side hustle or, and I wouldn’t take full ownership of it.

Right. And now it’s something I definitely like, it’s public knowledge everywhere. If you know me, you’ll know that I’m associated with sex work in some capacity. So it’s definitely changed a lot. It’s my, I’ve been through an entire like evolution when it comes to sex work in my own personal journey and it’s been a wild ride, let me tell you that.

Speaker 1 (9m 18s): And proud of it.

Speaker 2 (9m 18s): Right? Yeah, definitely proud of it. It’s, it’s been one of the best things that’s ever, ever happened to me

Speaker 1 (9m 25s): For sure. That’s awesome. Now, what has sex work taught you?

Speaker 2 (9m 29s): Oh wow. Well, it’s definitely taught me to have empathy. I think empathy to understand where people are coming from, understand their stories, to be an active listener and to understand that not everything can be taken at face value. And there’s usually more to the story behind that. And I feel there is just, there’s so many stories and there’s so much to offer from sex workers and so much to learn from sex workers and from our community that are, it’s really, really powerful.

Like we have powerful stories to share. Oftentimes, you know, in the media we’re often, there’s lots of misconceptions or misunderstood and honestly, I’m kinda tired of people, other people telling our stories for us. So yes, I feel like it’s our time to give people a platform and for us to really listen and take people seriously. So it’s, it’s definitely taught me a lot about, yeah, I guess that word is empathy for me cuz it’s just taught me to better understand people as a whole.

Speaker 1 (10m 46s): Now, besides empathy, what else have you learned? You said you’ve learned a lot from sex workers. Yeah. What have you learned?

Speaker 2 (10m 54s): Oh, business acumen. Yeah, just business in general. Like I just feel like I had zero sense of like any kind of sales skills before or marketing even, even just administrative duties. A lot of stuff you, you, when you come into sex work, you don’t realize all of the extra stuff that goes on in the background or the video editing or the audio editing, right. Or right.

All the editing that you know goes on behind the scenes that you don’t see from the finished product. Right. That to me has been such a great learning that I have taken away from the industry. And also, like another big one to me is just boundaries and learning more about consent, learning my own boundaries and like what I can tolerate, what I will not tolerate as well.

Those have been really, really big ones for me. Cuz again, if you talk to me like 10 years ago when I was first starting out, I, I didn’t have any of this stuff. Yeah. Again, I didn’t treat it as a job, I didn’t treat it as a career. I didn’t take anything seriously in that kind of sense. So those to me are really, really big things that I’ve taken away from my time in the industry. And again, I’m still constantly learning more and more every day from the community.

There’s a lot to learn. Like even today I was learning about, I think I saw an article about visa and MasterCard being suspended for from port. So like, just stuff like that. Like there’s just so many things that can have like a, a domino effect from that. And yeah. And I, that’s like a whole entire topic that we don’t have time to go into today, but, but things like that and just, gosh, I mean, what else?

There really is a lot. But those are, those are three big buckets I think that I’ve definitely kind of to from sex work, so. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13m 12s): I think a lot of people, well especially people outside the business don’t realize it’s a business, but even a lot of people inside the business don’t really treat it like a business.

Speaker 2 (13m 23s): Yeah. Yeah. I was definitely guilty of that for a while. And you really have to, to be successful and like, I mean you gotta learn from somewhere and at some point and like you can really take your business from, from here to going all the way up here by just adopting a few of these principles. And I feel like everyone needs to like take a business course from one of the ex sex in in our community for sure. You can learn a lot.


Speaker 1 (13m 54s): Yeah, you can. And you can also learn a lot from talking to people and going on the forums like, like ex and and asking questions and

Speaker 2 (14m 3s): Oh

Speaker 1 (14m 3s): Yeah. Really leaning on some of the people that have been around a long time. And I, I know there’s also some good model forums and yeah. As well as social media groups.

Speaker 2 (14m 15s): Tons. Yeah, there’s tons of resources out there. So discord groups that I’m a part of, Facebook groups that I’m a part of as well. Again, just learning from the people that I bring onto my show was another thing. Even on Twitter, just conversations just on my Twitter that I see in my feet are topics of conversation that come up. There’s so many learning opportunities there and I feel like as you mentioned, people should lean into that.

They really want upgrade their game in this industry. For sure.

Speaker 1 (14m 54s): Now, besides what we just talked about, what other skills have you gained from sex work?

Speaker 2 (15m 0s): Oh man. Honestly, like valuing myself, I think that’s a big thing that I definitely learned for sure. Like, and what I mean by that is just like charging what I am valued at and what I deserve. Yes. You know, and again, and that is slightly related to what we were talking about earlier too, because like it’s more than just picking a number, it’s also like your time and your energy that goes into, say when you make a custom video or something, the time it takes for you to get ready, the equipment that you’re using to film the equipment you’re using to edit the mic, lighting your outfits, your makeup, your nails, your hair, all of that

Speaker 1 (15m 48s): Stuff. Your overhead.

Speaker 2 (15m 49s): Your overhead. Yeah. The toys you use, like so many things to come into account and I feel a lot of the times we can get bullied by clients or low by clients and I, you just have to kind of stand your ground. And of course sometimes it takes a couple years of experience to kind of find your footing in that. But that’s been a huge thing for me, especially in, in the last few years too, just really owning what I do and being like, well these are my rates.

Like take it or leave it and, and really being confident in that and I think that is something everyone should definitely learn and take into account as well is so important, so, so important.

Speaker 1 (16m 41s): Unfortunately that’s not the case with most people. I mean yeah. I just find that people don’t really value their time or properly or value their services properly.

Speaker 2 (16m 56s): Yeah. And I think that people really need to look at that a bit more seriously because Yeah. I mean for me, my time is literally money. Like, I run a really, really tight ship. I have a very like insane schedule. So every minute counts and I really wanna make sure that like I’m putting the right energy right into things and being really purposeful about the work that I’m doing. It’s really not a good use of my time if I’m kind of dilly-dallying and wasting on people that don’t see the same value or see the value in the work that I’m pointing out there.

Yeah. Those are not the type of clients that I wanna attract, not the people I really wanna be associated or affiliated with. So

Speaker 1 (17m 44s): I agree. So I agree so much. Cause I, cause I go through it in my business and just, just this morning, yes, I had an email exchange with the guy and it was pretty obvious that he just wasn’t worth my time. I hate to, I hate to put it in those terms, but, but, but this guy just was really clueless. Well I mean the, the asking questions like, well can I buy this with no money down?

No dude.

Speaker 2 (18m 17s): No. Any

Speaker 1 (18m 18s): Other questions? Yeah, I mean, because because we, we, we pride ourselves on having valuable good properties, websites, companies that we sell and you know, it’s like what would the logic be to take no money down? You know, we’re not a, we’re not a bank, we’re not selling cars here anyway, continue. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (18m 44s): But yeah, I mean, you understand where you, where I’m coming, right?

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Oh, completely. Completely. You know, I’m polite enough, I’m polite enough to always reply and I reply promptly. That’s, that’s, you know, the old school in me is that, is that I don’t let things sit around. I always reply. That doesn’t mean I have to be happy about

Speaker 2 (19m 5s): It. No, no and no, I agree. I agree though because like, you can kind of tell off the bat if you’re not aligning with someone or someone’s not aligned with what you’re looking for or what you stand for, then you’re just like, well it’s just not gonna work out. Let’s just like cut it off. Make it easy,

Speaker 1 (19m 25s): Big time.

Speaker 2 (19m 26s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (19m 27s): So what is, what’s been the best part of being in this industry for you?

Speaker 2 (19m 33s): Yeah, I mean this is an easy one for me. It’s the community. And what I mean by that is just all the people that I’ve met during my time here, it’s been awesome. Like I have really never met a community where I really feel like I’ve belonged. Yeah. And, and so quickly too, cause sometimes when you get into a community, sometimes it takes like some growing pains or takes some time for you to feel acquainted. Right. But I dunno, I’ve almost felt super welcomed in this industry since day one.

And everyone’s super helpful wanting you to succeed and that’s been so lovely and so comforting and I love that so much. I wish there are more communities that were like this, but there really isn’t nothing quite like it.

Speaker 1 (20m 23s): It’s very true. Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s interesting, you and I met at the why not reunion in, in Arizona. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Tempe and one thing I noticed, you were talking about marketing earlier and I meant to point this out, You are a good marketer. I could tell that right away with the lead cards you had, which is what I do, you might have noticed, you know, that I not only have a business card but, but I have a lead card. You know, it’s just very unusual to find someone, especially on the performance side who has your marketing skills.

So congratulations on that.

Speaker 2 (20m 59s): Oh, thank you. That means so much to me. I,

Speaker 1 (21m 2s): Well it’s true. I don’t, I don’t give, I don’t give false praise to people. If I believe something I say it. If I don’t, I just shut up. So

Speaker 2 (21m 12s): I think that maybe like I, I can attribute that to some of my administrative and marketing skills in my vanilla life too. Cause I also ha like I, in addition to sex work, I’m also a marketing consultant as well.

Speaker 1 (21m 28s): Well that doesn’t surprise me. So you work in the mainstream world as well?

Speaker 2 (21m 33s): Yeah, sort of. So I don’t work in an office anymore. I just, I take clients now doing regular just general communications and marketing, content management and newsletter email campaigns and stuff like that. Just picking, picking and choosing the things that I like to do. Sure. And working with the clients that I really like. So Yeah. And that has been awesome. So I’m glad you picked that up. That makes me

Speaker 1 (21m 57s): Well and that’s gotta be really valuable. That’s gotta be really valuable knowing what you’re doing.

Speaker 2 (22m 2s): Yeah, I mean I think it definitely helps for sure. And I’m not saying that everyone needs to have a background in corporate or anything like that, but it certainly can help. And I mean vice versa though too, because I feel like a lot of questions that I sometimes get like, Oh, I like what kind of transferable skills can you bring to the civilian world from sex work? And I feel like it definitely goes both ways cuz as you mentioned earlier, we’re like, we’ve learned so much in this industry and we can take that outside of the industry as well.

Yep, yep. And take it. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (22m 37s): I agree. I agree completely. My background’s in marketing too, so there

Speaker 2 (22m 42s): We go.

Speaker 1 (22m 42s): Yeah, there’s, there’s no two ways about it. One, one can spot another. So what, what are some of the not so great experiences in sex work that you can share?

Speaker 2 (22m 53s): Oh man. Where do I start? I mean yeah, there’s a lot of untrustworthy people in this industry Yeah. That might not have the best interests in mind Sure. For people. So for example, I am Yeah. In front of the camera. Yes. And I do my own videos and of course I need to do my own promo and stuff as well. So of course I’ve, I’m working with a lot of photographers. Yeah. Or at least I used to work with a lot of photographers before.

And then last year I actually, a model had contacted me via Instagram. Cause some of my photos were posted on this photographer’s Instagram account. Cause I had worked with him before and they had messaged me a article and this article had stated that this person was arrested for voyeurism because another model had found a camera in one of the changing rooms.

Lovely. Yeah. Not so great stuff. So I had to go deal with the police in a complete different city in Canada and deal with that. But luckily that’s all been dealt with. And that takes

Speaker 1 (24m 8s): Its clothes. There’s so many jerk, there’s so many jerk offs and curves out there.

Speaker 2 (24m 12s): There are like lots of, many dudes of the camera that exist in not just sex work. But yeah. I mean anything with like moding and whatnot, sexual assault can also happen as well. Sorry. Yeah. Due to the nature of some of the work that I do. And that’s again, being early on during those sugar baby days, not really having those boundaries and not setting them properly and just not being strong enough to say no in certain situations.

Yeah. Or, or being bribed or being like, you know, dangling the carrot of like, you know, well if you do this then I’ll pay you this more, this much more. And just again, not recognizing like, oh this is actually a red flag. Yeah. So those are definitely a couple experiences that like stick out for me and Sure. Unfortunately it and can be very commonplace with a lot of people within our industry. Yeah. So it’s, yeah.

And I’m not saying that to scare anyone, but it’s just unfortunately the reality that can happen to some people. So yes, it’s really, really important to be communicative, have those boundaries set, know what your limits are. Right. When it comes to photography and stuff too, or videography, ask me for references, ask the referrals. Right. So all the stuff is super, super key information that I wish I had known or I wish that I had better prepared myself.

Right. But again, I’m taking them as big learnings, learning lessons, you know, to, to watch out for. And now with red flags as I proceed in the industry.

Speaker 1 (25m 59s): Yeah. It’s, I’m sure it’s not easy to be a beautiful woman in any way, sense or form. Having been raised by a woman, I’m a bit of a feminist more than a bit. And this kinda, when I hear, when I hear stuff like this, it really pisses me off. Okay. Yeah. So I’m sorry to hear that. Tell us about your podcast strip. I see it. And how did you get this started?

Speaker 2 (26m 27s): Yeah, well gosh, I mean by this time now it’s been almost three years since I started the show. Wow. And yeah. Which is crazy to me. And that’s been like consecutively every single week have not really taken a break at all. But it’s been fun. And basically that started back in 2019 summer, in the summer when I was working at the club and one of my regulars there kind of just made a statement and was like, Oh yeah, strippers are really cool.

People, like a lot of you guys are just like, you know, are influencers and you have 10,000 of followers and you all lead such interesting lives outta the club. And I was like, yeah. Like we do. That’s really interesting that, yeah. You hit it right on the head like that is correct. And then, Yep. I, I already knew that I wanted to do a podcast cuz I’m a big like avid podcast listener. I’m kind of a nerd like that but that

Speaker 1 (27m 26s): Makes, that makes one of, that makes one of us. But go ahead.

Speaker 2 (27m 31s): Yeah. So I was like, oh well this is really interesting and I have a lot of people and friends in the industry and I’m gonna do a show on this. And then two weeks later the first episode came out. Yeah. I guess the rest of his, the rest is history.

Speaker 1 (27m 44s): It’s awesome. You got me, you got me by you got me by a year. I’ve done a little, little over two years now. Wow. So who have been your most memorable guest so far?

Speaker 2 (27m 55s): Oh my gosh, there’s been so many. Bruce. I’ve done over 150 episodes now. So hard to choose. But there’s definitely people that have come to mind and really just depends on the topic as well. But Dr. Raven Bowen, she is the CEO of National Ugly Mugs, which is like a non-profit organization based in the UK that helps benefit sex workers.

And we did a really cool episode on work balance and duality. So much like myself, as I mentioned earlier, I, I balance sex work out with some vanilla or civilian work. So it was really cool to have that conversation and just talk about the research she’s done in the field and just to know that I’m not alone in this. Right. Right. Because I know a lot of people, they can look down at people that have civilian jobs too and like, Oh you’re not doing this full time.

That means they’re not really taking this seriously. Hmm. And that is not really the case for anyone. Sure. Or for other people. So. Sure. Yeah. Doctor Ring Bone was definitely one of my favorite people that I’ve interviewed. I’ve also interviewed and yeah, there’s just a few here but like some sex trafficking survivors. So my Romero that I actually, that you might have met during the Why not reunion, she was there, She had a really, really compelling story on her experience when it came to sex trafficking.

I thought that was really powerful cause it’s like how often do you ever get to hear from sex trafficking survivors? So I thought that was really awesome. Another friend of mine, Brent Ray Fraser who is an artist out here in, in Vancouver and he does art with his penis, which is really interesting and he’s, yeah it sounds really funny and a little bit odd but like again I have a range of people on my show but he, that has taken him very, very far.

Speaker 1 (30m 16s): I’d say I’d like to see that but I really don’t.

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): Maybe I’ll send you something later. Interesting. But yeah, those are just a, a few to name but there’s just been so many great people. I mean I recently interviewed with Cindy Starfall who is an amazing adult. Adult actress and cool too because it just, I always feel connected with those who are of Asian descent. Cause sometimes it’s really hard to find people like us in the industry.

Was really cool to hear her experience and like how she came to be and just, you know, agreeing with so much of the conservativeness that comes along with being Asian and doing sex work and the pushback that we can get and the cultural pushback too and religious. So from all different sides. But yeah, that was such a fun and interesting conversation.

Speaker 1 (31m 20s): I live in Thailand, I know a lot about the, the whole thing so

Speaker 2 (31m 24s): Yeah. Yeah. A lot. A lot for sure.

Speaker 1 (31m 30s): So what are some highlights in your life that sex work has brought you?

Speaker 2 (31m 36s): Yeah, and that’s such a great question. There’s been a lot of great things have that have definitely come from sex work for sure. So I’ve gotten the opportunity recurring opportunities to guest lecture at a couple different universities in the United States and also my alma mater seventh grade university. So that’s been really freaking cool.

Speaker 1 (31m 57s): Cool. That must nice.

Speaker 2 (32m 0s): It’s been so nice cause I actually studied criminology back in the day. That was, that was what I majored in and it was really cool just to, yeah. And to come back to be invited to speak in their upper level criminology classes really was like, wow, this has come full circle for me. So that’s been really quite the honor. So, So

Speaker 1 (32m 23s): When guys, so when you tell guys that you studied criminology, did they tell you that it’s that it’s okay if you put cuffs on them?

Speaker 2 (32m 30s): I get that all the time. Or you say

Speaker 1 (32m 33s): Oh well it wasn’t, it wasn’t original. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (32m 38s): I mean yeah, that’s been a really, really cool experience or experiences have happened. I also have invited to speak and facilitate at some sex work festivals in Asia. So that’s been really, really cool. I’ve also gotten the opportunity to also work with United Nations women Wow. Research. Yeah. Through sex work. So that’s been really cool cuz I was able to help conduct research and conduct some focus groups with youth sex workers from around the world.


Speaker 1 (33m 15s): Awesome.

Speaker 2 (33m 16s): Yeah, so it’s really create a lot of opportunities. I mean I’ve had like the CBC contact me for interviews or like, you know, ask me for comments and stuff. I just think all of those experiences have been just so cool and so wild to me. And just like never in my wildest dreams when I’ve thought like by starting the show I would’ve gone in these kind of really unique opportunities. Right. So yeah, I just feel incredibly blessed and just like full of gratitude to be awarded with these really rare and cool opportunities.

It’s been

Speaker 1 (33m 52s): Awesome. Yeah. Well next time you come out to to Asia to speak you’ll have to swing by.

Speaker 2 (33m 57s): Absolutely. I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34m 1s): Yeah. We, we got some pretty nice digs out here. It’s blast. What’s the best advice you can give someone who’s considering entering into sex work?

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): Mm. Yeah. This is a really, really common question for sure. For all newbies that are out there. But yeah, for me it’s, it’s a couple things. Definitely do your research there. There’s so much out there and akin to what we were saying earlier too with like the of blogs, the different Facebook groups and Reddit and forums and, and podcasts show on this show. Like there’s so many resources out there that are free and that are accessible to you.

So it’s really important to do that research and also to ask questions for, for those who are in the industry and a lot of us you just ask on Twitter or ask Instagram and we’d be happy to answer the questions. Sure. I mean, looking back at my time being a sugar baby, like it was so hush hush back, back in the day and that was like nine years ago. Yeah. And the fact that there weren’t a lot of resources for me to look and read into.

I mean it’s definitely come a long way now. Like and that and a sugar baby. Sure. Being a sugar baby. So like commonplace right. Nowadays as well. But yeah, definitely do your research on in regards to like what kind of avenue and sex work that you wanna go down to. And also, I talked about boundaries earlier, but I think it’s really important to kind of establish your boundaries and, and know what those are. And you know, it’s, it’s okay to say no you don’t have to do everything

Speaker 1 (35m 48s): Big time. Big time,

Speaker 2 (35m 50s): Big time. You know. And I feel like a lot of people feel like they have to offer everything and do everything under the sun in order to make in this industry. And I really think it’s the opposite. I feel like you agreed be more niche.

Speaker 1 (36m 4s): Absolutely. If there’s something you’re not comfortable with doing, say no.

Speaker 2 (36m 8s): Yeah. You’re absolutely allowed to say no, that’s okay. I

Speaker 1 (36m 13s): Think the whole me too era has, has really reinforced that.

Speaker 2 (36m 18s): Oh for sure. I think that has, Yeah, absolutely. Like its really made a stronger case for us because you know, we don’t have to do everything that’s out there. You have a choice, you have a voice, Right. Use it.

Speaker 1 (36m 33s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (36m 34s): Yeah. Those are like my words of advice writing anyone that is new coming into this. And also, I guess last piece of advice too is actually treat it like work

Speaker 1 (36m 45s): Big

Speaker 2 (36m 46s): Time. Treat it like your business that is so important. If you’re gonna keep treating it as like a side gig or a side hustle or whatever, I don’t think you’re gonna take it seriously. And I don’t think your clients will also take it seriously either. So.

Speaker 1 (37m 3s): And you won’t succeed.

Speaker 2 (37m 5s): And you won’t succeed. Exactly. So yeah, just know that it’s real work. Cause there’s too many times I’ve had these questions been asked to me and they just wanna do it for fun or whatnot, I’m just like, but you know, it’s work. Right? Like, you know, it’s sex work. Right? Yep. So I just really wanna like drive that point down to the ground cause it’s really, really important.

Speaker 1 (37m 27s): It’s really funny. You were talking about nine years ago and then in the same sentence you said back in the day, you have no idea how old that makes me feel. Okay. So what’s your take on pole dance hobbyists and leisure dancers?

Speaker 2 (37m 46s): Oh yeah, That’s like a big topic of big too big, big topic. And as a, as a person who is part of both worlds as an instructor and also as a stripper. Yeah. There’s a huge debate between both because I mean, for the past couple years it’s been like a whole hashtag not a stripper hashtag going around. Yeah. That being a thing for the past like probably three years now that’s been going too many

Speaker 1 (38m 13s): Hashtags. Too many hashtags. So lord, anyway.

Speaker 2 (38m 17s): No and it’s just, it’s just bad because it just really taps into that hierarchy in terms of like, I’m separating myself and othering strippers. Yeah. And you know, I’m separating, I’m not one of those people. I’m not a stripper. Sounds

Speaker 1 (38m 33s): Like a form of bias really.

Speaker 2 (38m 35s): Totally. And it’s completely problematic. And the fact that so many people, like even studio owners are still like behind this. Right. It’s not healthy. And they should know that pole dancing and pole hobbyists and pole sport all originated from the strip club.

Speaker 1 (38m 56s): Hello. And

Speaker 2 (38m 58s): Yeah. Hello. I mean like it’s not rocket science.

Speaker 1 (39m 1s): Yeah. These, these polls didn’t just come down from outer space with no reason.

Speaker 2 (39m 8s): They just didn’t erect themselves like that. Like Well and

Speaker 1 (39m 11s): Well, Well and don’t you think that a lot of the casual pole dancing has to do with these women fantasizing about being a stripper?

Speaker 2 (39m 25s): Oh my gosh. And that’s a huge part of it too. And that even boils down to like some of the aesthetic, like the stripper aesthetic that they wanna try to adopt. The whole clear shoe, clear heel trend that’s going on in mainstream fashion is also can be contributed to stripper aesthetic. So there’s a lot there and I just feel like, and I could really go into this, but like, we’ll just keep it really light. I think it’s really important that people that are not part of our industry, so the adult industry or the strip industry, to really think about what these, what their origins of their favorite sport could come from.

And also I also think it’s like a responsibility to, you know, let students know like this is where it originates from. This is why we have exotic dance classes or exotic dance inspired classes and you know, they owe us a lot so. Right. I feel like we’re having a time right now and I feel like a lot of people have opinions on this and as do I. And I really just feel like people need to understand that this kind of behavior and these kind of hashtags are not helping us at all.

Right. It’s just the opposite. So. Sure.

Speaker 1 (40m 43s): So have you ever experienced, and I think you did slightly allude to this racism or fetishization within the industry?

Speaker 2 (40m 52s): Oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. As an Asian Canadian woman for sure. And not even within this industry, but just in general, just being catcalled and walking down the street and someone says like UA or whatever, or people like ask me in the club and outside the club they’re like, Oh like are you Filipino? And I’m just like, why are you asking me that? And then they of course are trying their best to relate to me or find some kind of bonding connection like, oh you said data philippina and blah blah blah and proceeded telling you about your dating life.

And I was was like, Yeah. It’s

Speaker 1 (41m 35s): Very, actually I’ll be honest, I’m guilty sometimes of asking Asian Asians their nationality cuz I’m kind of curious if they’re Thai or, or what. And I, I usually am a pretty good judge of who’s what. But anyway I Yeah. Guilty of that and, And there’s no malice involved. I’m just kind of curious.

Speaker 2 (41m 55s): Yeah. Yeah. I think like with curiosity I think it’s totally fine. But I know like with some of the clientele that come to the club, like I know what they’re alluding to and like, oh Filipinos are so hard working and blah blah blah and then just, just keep going and reinforcing this stereotype and it’s

Speaker 1 (42m 12s): Just big time. It’s

Speaker 2 (42m 13s): Just uncomfortable. Yeah. I don’t like it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42m 17s): Yeah. While living out here, the stereotypes are all gone. So I mean that if I ever had those, which I probably did when I lived in the States, they’re gone now and, but I can only imagine. And let’s face it, there’s a lot of guys that fantasize about Asian women, which I’m sure is great for your business, but it also can be harmful.

Speaker 2 (42m 45s): Oh absolutely. Yeah. I’ve definitely gotten some like strange re well what I consider a strange request kind of going more into like race play, which is something I don’t offer just cause I think it’s dangerous to kinda play with those lines cause it’s a really, really fine line when it comes to race play. And that’s just something I just don’t entertain. I just feel like it’s encouraging more of defending those stereotypes types and Yes. And fe, which is not so fun for those who are on this side big time of that line.

Yeah. So I, yeah, for me it’s a hard pass on that

Speaker 1 (43m 26s): I can only imagine hanging there. Mm. So, So do you ever think about leaving the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (43m 33s): Not very often, which is really nice. I don’t think I’ve ever thought about leaving. I think like the one time I maybe thought about leaving or ending at least a portion of this part of the industry was actually was stripping. And that’s when the pandemic happened because everything shut down was strip clubs. Like I didn’t dance for almost basically in over a year actually. Yes. I didn’t dance for a year and I was like, well I guess strip clubs are gonna close down. This is gonna be the end of things and I don’t know if I’ll ever dance again.

It’s time to hang off my heels. And that did not happen thankfully. And actually I’m dancing more and more now post pandemic, even though we’re still in the pandemic, but dancing more now. So I thought that at one point, like that might have been my end. And also like I’m looking towards the future. I feel like maybe when I’m pregnant I probably won’t be doing much in this industry.

Or maybe after I have kids or like young toddlers, I don’t think I’d be doing anything. I just don’t think I’m gonna have energy and I’m gonna, I’m wanting to, you know, doing all

Speaker 1 (44m 48s): Those things. I, they tend to that energy.

Speaker 2 (44m 51s): Yes. Like, I mean realistically, realistically speaking, I just don’t think I’ll be doing that at that point. So, but who knows that, that’s still quite a few years away, so we’ll see. I’ll, I’ll get back to you when it happens if that happens there.

Speaker 1 (45m 5s): There you go. Do you have any regrets about being in the industry?

Speaker 2 (45m 11s): Nothing huge about like actual regrets. Like in general, I don’t find that I regret anything. There are things maybe that I wish I could have done a bit differently. Sure. Or maybe I’ve done better. And that’s just, again, just knowing myself. But however, at that point in my life I, I was just not solidified in who I was and I just didn’t know what I valued what again, what those boundaries and stuff were at those points in my life.

So that to me, I guess would be the closest thing to regret things in this industry. I wish I could have started earlier a little bit. I feel like I was a little later to the game, but at the same time I still feel like I was really naive when I entered the industry, but I kind of wish I, I kind wish I got involved with porn earlier or at least given that like a try. Cause I’ve, I’ve had, I just know so many people in the industry and it feels like that’s something I would’ve like definitely would’ve loved to try to do at some point being an exhibitionist.

So like I feel like that would’ve been a really, really interesting experience. But yeah, I think those are like my only things that I might might’ve regretted. But

Speaker 1 (46m 30s): Yeah, so being an exhibitionist is probably a good prerequisite for this position. So along with that, what do you think needs to be changed to make the industry better for performers?

Speaker 2 (46m 45s): Ooh. Yeah. I feel we need to get rid of the hierarchy. So I kind of mentioned that term earlier, but basically for those listeners who don’t know what the hierarchy is or for those who just was like, what is that term? It’s basically like a hierarchy within the sex industry or sex workers. And there’s different, there’s different kinds of hierarchies, but for example, non contact, that’s

Speaker 1 (47m 11s): Hierarchy. Kinda like hierarchy.

Speaker 2 (47m 14s): Yes, exactly. Words. I like that. Wish I coined. I did not coin, but

Speaker 1 (47m 23s): Patented

Speaker 2 (47m 25s): Would’ve, Sex work is viewed at the top. So basically some people might see this as camgirl or some people might see this as, I don’t know, do at the top and then it kind of goes down the pyramid. So maybe strippers might be next. And then you might have like indoor sex work and then like outdoor sex work at the bottom. And I think a lot of people really do adopt that model.

I’m not sure if that’s subconsciously or consciously, but it is really dangerous and it just puts others at risk by making certain comments like that or assumptions like that. And also it just, it’s just not healthy and I feel like the whole world already hates sex workers. So why do we continue to allow this hate to be within, like internally in our community? I really feel like that is something that needs to change.

And there’s still so many people that believe in that kinda stuff and it’s really not. And in the end we’re all hoes. So

Speaker 1 (48m 39s): I know I’m

Speaker 2 (48m 44s): Like, yeah, that definitely needs to change. Hopefully at some point I would love to see. That

Speaker 1 (48m 50s): Makes sense. So, so how can people find you?

Speaker 2 (48m 54s): Oh yeah, we’re, we’re at that time. Yes. So it’s, my podcast is stripped by C and you can find that on any major podcast platform. It’s, it’s out there. You can stream online, you can stream wherever, rate and like five stars if you’re interested in that. And then again, if you are interested in hearing and seeing some of the video exclusive on that, you can go pee my Patreon, which is patreon.com/stripped by cia.

And if you do wanna get in contact with me, Twitter is the best place to do that. And it’s stripped by CIA on Twitter. We have stripped by CIA on Instagram as well. Basically stripped by CIA everywhere. So I’ll make that nice and easy. And I am working on my website revamping that at the moment, which will be stripped by.com.

Speaker 1 (49m 45s): So. So just for everyone out there, it’s stripped by s i a is how C is spelled. Okay. Well Steph, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult site broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (50m 1s): Absolutely. Thank you again, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (50m 3s): It was a pleasure. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about making a good offer and how to structure your site. Next, keep your website design up to date, do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date. Times change. So should your website, look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like.

Emulate success. If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things. I’m not saying to copy it, I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit. You’ve gotta keep up with the times or you’re gonna end up being left behind. Also, keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more. Don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good and your competitive. The same goes for your content.

Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t? Check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing? Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet the competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all of your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’ll lose customers. People are not patient these days. People’s attention spans are like that of a nat.

They’ll click out immediately and go onto the next result in Google if they don’t find what they’re looking for or if the site is hard to navigate or things just don’t work. Check all your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Krystel Penn of Grooby. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Steph Sia. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Karl Edwards of Stiff Media.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to present a one of a kind, unique and legendary site. It’s a pro amateur ethnic reality site. Founded in 2005, members never know what to expect With a variety of different performers. From brand new amateur talents to famous porn stars, the site continues to grow and expand with no major competitors in this niche.

What makes it unique is their 100% original content that has uncensored and unscripted scenes. They’re video trailers or short web episodes that engage the viewers and are immensely popular online. Almost all the traffic is organic with some affiliate traffic. The site gets about 20 joins and 40 rebuilds a day. This iconic site is available for only $1.4 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Carl Edwards of Stiff Media.

Carl, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 27s): It’s my pleasure, Bruce.

Speaker 1 (2m 28s): It’s a pleasure to have you Now, Carl is one.

Speaker 2 (2m 30s): Yes, it is. Thank you for noticing.

Speaker 1 (2m 33s): Carl is one of the true pioneers of the gay adult internet market from his early days as the owner and operator of bedfellow.com to you love jack.com and foot woody.com and his most recent venture xxx edit.com. He’s been on the forefront of technology and real brand marketing. He shoots and edits his own content, manages his own affiliate programs and codes and designs each of his sites from scratch. This hands on approach keeps him in direct touch with his market and helps him stay one step ahead of the competition.

Recently he was vice president of L G B T Q I A plus products at Doppler. The company behind Live Jasmine now, he started Stiff Media, the first video editing and post production company designed exclusively for the adult entertainment industry. So, Carl, besides my brief description, what is Stiff Media?

Speaker 2 (3m 27s): Well, first of all, I’ve done a lot. I should hire me qualifications.

Speaker 1 (3m 33s): I would definitely recommend you Carl.

Speaker 2 (3m 36s): Well, listen, Stiff Media, this is an extension of Triple X edit, but it’s more of a full service bureau. So basically we’re video editing and post production service for the adult industry in particular. My clients range in size anywhere from huge studios like Falcon and Raging Stallion to individual content producers who might have their own fan sites. Basically anything that happens after they turn off the camera and before the content is presented to their members, that’s where I

Speaker 1 (4m 2s): Step in. I would imagine in this day and age, post-production requires a pretty good amount of software.

Speaker 2 (4m 9s): Yeah. Oh God. Well it’s not a, you know, it’s funny, it’s become simplified really. Yeah, there, there’s basically, there’s like the big three packages that people might use. It depends what you’re doing, right? There’s, there’s your Adobe Suite, you’ve got your Premier Pro and your After Effects, which is sort of an industry standard, but there’s a whole fringe group now like me that are using DaVinci Resolve. There’s options out there. So the, the real big thing is just staying on top of the hardware and the software and keeping it all balanced so that you never have any downtime.

You can’t have an update come in and shut you down for a week while, you know, some software company works out their problems cuz they had to roll out an update to you.

Speaker 1 (4m 49s): Yeah. And what’s the advantage in your mind of DaVinci

Speaker 2 (4m 53s): DaVinci right off the bat? It’s free. So if you think that’s a good advantage. Yeah, but it’s, well there’s two versions. There’s a free version, which is the full suite, not limited in any way. And then the, the full product that you pay, I think a couple hundred bucks for that adds a few extra special effects and a few extra codex. But you anyone could just download the, the software and be editing video in no time flat. Sure. So, you know, the, the fact that you don’t have to pay a monthly fee is great, especially for smaller studios that don’t have the ability to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month for software and the, the quality is banging on.

It’s pretty much what all the Hollywood studios are using for all their work now.

Speaker 1 (5m 33s): Interesting. I I would imagine then it’s more of an identity issue with them that people don’t know them as opposed to the quality of it. Cuz it sounds like, I mean, I know how expensive Adobe products are, although I’ve never priced that particular one. I would imagine that people should be using this.

Speaker 2 (5m 53s): Yeah, well, you know what it was is Resolve and, and DaVinci used to be only for color correction and it became the industry standard for all Hollywood productions or anyone who’s doing color grading or color production. So, you know, when you see like a Transformer movie and it looks orange and teal, they create that effect in Vinci Resolve. And what’s happened is Black Magic Design, the company who bought the software has slowly been building it out into a full-fledged editing suite that has its own special effects program and has its own audio editing program, everything in one package.

And they’ve honed the product. It’s at version 18 now. They’ve honed it to the point where there’s really no reason to use anything else. It’s good enough and even beyond good enough. It’s so good that it’s my first choice.

Speaker 1 (6m 38s): Yeah, I noticed you didn’t mention Final Cut Pro.

Speaker 2 (6m 41s): Well that’s because you’re just gonna get in trouble if you mention Final Cut Pro, you can’t win, right? What do you mean? Well, Apple changed Final Cut Pro when they went to version 10, they changed the entire paradigm and basically what Apple said was, listen editors, like traditional film editors aren’t our market anymore. Our market is content creators. Interesting. So they, they redesigned the entire paradigm of the editing experience within Final Cup Pro to appeal to people who don’t have traditional film editing experience.

Interesting. And the entire editor market just basically said, forget it. And then there was, it was buggy and there was all kinds of problems and it took four or five years for them to catch up and now it’s actually working so well that a lot of people really use it. But you’re paying the Apple tax for all the hardware. Yeah. And you know, you’re paying like 1.60 yeah. 1.6, 1.7 times as much Yeah. To get the same kind of performance. So, you know, it’s, I, I’m Agnos, I’m I’m platform agnostic. I’m bi computer. I can, I can work in anything that you put in front of me.

Sure. But my preference is to work on a PC and my, and, and my preference is to work and resolve cuz it’s just so stable.

Speaker 1 (7m 50s): That’s interesting. A lot of people prefer, in fact, I think most people who do that kind of work, don’t they prefer Max?

Speaker 2 (7m 57s): You know, I think, so I started out my career on a Mac up until five years ago. I was Macintosh everything. And I, I still have iPhones and everything. You can’t really get away from those. But once it became clear that all of my clients, you know, five years ago, all my clients wanted me to be on Premier Pro and not Final Cut and final cut. Oddly little, little side note here, it’s like 20% faster to edit and final cut than from year or resolve. But nobody wants to use it because it’s got such a bad reputation.

So I have to go with what my clients want. So once I realized that I didn’t have to be locked into the Mac platform, then I was free to sort of build a super editing station and just work on the whatever software was needed for whatever job I was working on.

Speaker 1 (8m 41s): Yeah. But for their purposes, I’m sure going to creators is probably gonna make them a lot more money.

Speaker 2 (8m 47s): It’s really worked out great for them. Like basically all the people on YouTube that are just making these 10 minute videos, they’re all on Final Cut and it’s, and there’s a whole community that’s built up around it. Again, it’s just a different beast though.

Speaker 1 (9m 0s): Yeah. Well, Apple didn’t become the largest company in the world by being stupid. Now, did they?

Speaker 2 (9m 6s): Well, you know what, I guess, I guess you really can’t argue with that.

Speaker 1 (9m 14s): So you said, although they’re very frustrating at times, being someone who’s locked into the Apple ecosystem, Mac, iPad, iPhone, Apple tv. I got it all baby.

Speaker 2 (9m 26s): But the, everyone complains about Apple and they say, Oh, you’re just, you’re locked into their system. You have to do everything their way if you’re on a Mac. Yeah. Have you used a Windows PC lately? It’s exactly the same way. Sure. Try and get rid of Microsoft OneDrive. You just can’t. It’s built into everything. There’s no way to, like, everyone does that and Mac gets an unfair wrap. Yeah, I agree. Because they have this, this luxury brand identity, which I don’t think they deserve that, You know, if you’re, if you’re building stuff like, you know, Mac Pros that are 50, $60,000, but you look at the components, it’s expensive, but it’s not overpriced.

It’s just what that stuff costs. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10m 3s): Yeah. Absolutely. So now you said that Stiff Media is a video editing and post production service that specializes in the adult industry. Now I know what editing is, but editing, I should’ve said editing instead of a, it’s early in the morning here, but what’s post production exactly. Give me some, you know, gimme the details

Speaker 2 (10m 28s): There. Yeah. Well, but it’s pretty easy. Post production is, is really anything that needs to be done to video content after the cameras are turned off and they, and it actually includes editing, but I separate the term out editing. Cause I don’t know if everyone, if my audience knows what post production means. So video editing people know, but, you know, if you wanna gang it all together, it would be color correction, resizing reframing for social media, special effects, compositing, anything that you do to put the finishing touches on a video. It basically, post production means when the production is stopped and you have to prep the, the video content for display.

That’s where I step in.

Speaker 1 (11m 6s): Hmm. How long does it usually take to do post production on a scene?

Speaker 2 (11m 10s): Oh, you know, I can only tell you, this is like an interview question, right. I’m interviewing for a job and they’re like, What makes you the right candidate? I need more information. Like every scene is different. Yeah. And every producer is different, but typically it takes me about three times as long as the amount of footage that I’m given. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): So if somebody shoots, it kind of reminds me, it kind of reminds me of editing this interview. This is gonna take me two or three times the amount of time that we did the interview.

Speaker 2 (11m 42s): Cause you have to do it in real time. Yes. And if somebody gives me three hours of footage and there’s two cameras that’s six hours of footage. Yep. It starts adding up. So by the time you synchronize everything and, and get all the, get all the cameras switching back and forth, you know, it takes, it takes a few hours to pull it together. But I have an advantage that I’ve been doing this a long time, so I’m fast. Like I, I don’t waste any time. So it’s not, it’s not like I’m, I’m sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for stuff to render. But realistically, you know, if you’re, if you’re coming for, if you’re coming to do a video job with me and you’ve got two hours of footage you can count on the edit taking about six hours to complete.

Speaker 1 (12m 17s): Wow. That’s a long time. And are you doing mainstream as well?

Speaker 2 (12m 22s): Yes, I am. But not through the Stiff Media brand. Sure. There’s another brand, Kes Media, which is basically, you know, the non-adult version of Stiff Media. Kess, of course, standing for Carl Edwards a superstar. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (12m 36s): Oh yeah, I, I would’ve assumed that. So you mentioned, what the hell’s he talking about? So I was thinking

Speaker 2 (12m 45s): About that. You know, it’s a funny story cuz when I got, I, I studied photography in university and when I got her to school, I went to the business office here in Toronto to get my, to set up a company. And the lady behind the counter said, Well, you’ll need a name. And I’m like, why did I did, I wasn’t prepared, What should I do? And she said, It should be your name separated by a comma with what you do. So on the spot I came up with Carl Edwards comma a superstar. I love it. I thought I was so smart. And then I would go to art directors with my portfolio and give them the card. This says Karl Superstar.

And they would tear up my business card and slip it back in the portfolio and hand it back to me on like, without looking at it. I was like, Oh, Jesus. So I had to shorten it to Kees just to soften the blow of my own.

Speaker 1 (13m 29s): That’s hilarious.

Speaker 2 (13m 30s): Lunacy. Yeah. I know. It’s just so stupid. That’s what you get when you’re 20 years old, right?

Speaker 1 (13m 34s): Oh yes. We all make our mistakes. We all make our mistakes. So now you mentioned special effects. What exactly does that involve and how does it relate to adult?

Speaker 2 (13m 45s): To be honest, I’ve done productions that require explosions and laser beams. That’s part of it. Yeah. But, you know, practical terms, special effects could simply mean motion tracking and blurring someone’s face or taking a tattoo or, or pixelating a tattoo. It could be replacing a phone or computer screen to match the story that’s being presented in the video. Sure. Maybe removing the shadow of a drone on a long establishing shot or turning day to day. There’s a ton of things that fall under special effects. It’s more than just blowing fun things up. But I’ll, I’ll put explosions in anything you want.

Don’t you worry.

Speaker 1 (14m 18s): Well, you can put an explosion in this podcast.

Speaker 2 (14m 22s): Well, you know what, we’ll have to talk, we’ll have to talk about my rates.

Speaker 1 (14m 29s): So how many people do what you do exclusive to the adult industry? I, I mean, I’ve come across other editors, but I don’t get the impression there’s a lot.

Speaker 2 (14m 41s): No. And I’ve come across other editors too. And, and a lot of studios have their in-house editors. You know, if you’re knocking on doors being like, Hey, I’m from Stiff Media, I do editing, blah, blah, blah. The first thing anyone’s ever gonna say is, Oh, we already have an editor. Yep. Like, like, you know it, like you’re trying to come up with the next great idea for a gadget to sell on tv. And someone’s like, Oh, it’s called a fork. I already have one. You the what you, But you know, they’re out there. But in terms of full service bureaus, like Stiff Media, I believe I’m the only one.

Wow. That’s actually marketing my services on a wide scale to the adult industry. I’ve come across a couple of individuals that are sort of freelancing, but in terms of like the full kit and caboodle that I’m doing with the top to bottom post production services, I think Stiff Media is it right now. Good.

Speaker 1 (15m 31s): Okay. So how long have you been an editor and how would you rate your talent as one from when you got started to today?

Speaker 2 (15m 40s): Oh, well I’ve been doing this, I mean, I used to edit all my own content back in the bedfellow days when, you know, when it was impossible to even capture digital video. So I, I’ve been doing editing myself for 30 years, my own mainstream products. I I’ve been doing it for 20 plus years. Right. And you know, I think being an editor is a funny thing, Bruce. It’s not like, it’s not knowing how to use a program. Anyone could learn how to use a program. Sure. But there’s skills involved in editing that involve the control of timing and pace and, and creating a sense of energy and, and helping a story be portrayed in the, in the right way that is difficult to learn.

And I’ve kind of had the knack of that for well over 10 years now. Yeah. So I would say, I would say in terms of editing, I’m at the top of my game. Whatever anyone gives gives me, I can actually, you know, editing is funny. It’s, it’s a problem solving game. It, it’s basically, you never have the footage that you need to tell the story correctly. Yeah. So it’s all about reasoning your way through the stuff that you do have and making it look like you had everything that you were supposed to have from the start. And it could be super frustrating, but when it actually works out, it’s like doing the hard Sudoku and on the New York Times, you’re like, Oh wow, I actually did that.

That’s a, I feel really good about myself.

Speaker 1 (16m 59s): Yeah. I would imagine the, there’s a discrepancy between quality of shooting between different clients.

Speaker 2 (17m 9s): Oh yeah. It’s funny, I always say that, that no one should be allowed to shoot anything until they’ve edited content for at least two years. That’s a good point because you, there’s a saying in the industry of shooting for the edit and it’s giving your editor enough tools so that he can hide the mistakes, number one. But number two, actually convey the story in the way that you want it to. And I think a lot of producers get hung up in not understanding how the editing process works and then they try to shoot everything at once.

Yeah. So, you know, they might be doing a closeup of whatever glistening insertion happens to be going on and then think, Oh, I’m going to, I’m gonna pan my camera up and get a picture of their face now. And then halfway up to the face, something happens in the down there area so they whip the camera back and it’s just this whole frenetic thing where, you know, you could just have two cameras running and not really have to worry about that. And if you understood the editing process, you’d know that your editor can actually cover your movement and if something important happens, you’ll still have it. Yeah. That there’s no need to panic that you can just relax and let the story be told, let the actual action speak for itself rather than some overt camera movement that you think adds a stylish flare.

Yeah. It usually just gets in the way. So I, I think that that’s just, you know, that’s me as an editor, if you talk to any editor in the world, they’ll all have the exact same complaint. No one shoots the right way, no one gives me the right footage. All I have to do is fix mistakes. Right.

Speaker 1 (18m 37s): Well, yeah, I mean, you’re there to cover their mistakes.

Speaker 2 (18m 41s): Yeah, absolutely. And not get credit for it.

Speaker 1 (18m 44s): Of course.

Speaker 2 (18m 45s): That’s the funny part. If I do my job properly, the producers will never know that I did my job properly. Yeah. And that’s, you know, that’s why you have to have an ego like, I have to get through

Speaker 1 (18m 57s): This. Exactly. Well it’s like a, it’s like a, an umpire or a referee in a, a sporting event. Yeah. If you don’t notice them, they’re probably doing their job well.

Speaker 2 (19m 8s): Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s funny cuz you see, you know, you see the Oscars in the best editing category and it’s kind of like, I I’m sure every g every editor in the world just laughs at that because if, if you do your job properly, no one should notice it. Sure. It should be nothing to get an award for. Right.

Speaker 1 (19m 27s): Oh, you make a point. Definitely make a point. So you’ve run websites and shot your own content for the past 20 years or so. What is it about editing that interests you?

Speaker 2 (19m 39s): You know, it’s, Do you want the joke answer or the, the real answer? Yeah,

Speaker 1 (19m 44s): Both would be, both would be great. Cuz I love your joke. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (19m 47s): Well, the, the joke answer is, you know, with editing I get to sit in the dark and nobody bugs me. Just sit here. You,

Speaker 1 (19m 53s): You know, you said something like that off mic.

Speaker 2 (19m 56s): It’s true. I did. Well, you know, you know, I’m really telling you. So

Speaker 1 (19m 59s): Maybe, so maybe it’s not a joke.

Speaker 2 (20m 1s): It’s not a joke. It’s not a joke. I, I make decisions that affect other people’s lives. Right. I just think it’s all fine alone

Speaker 1 (20m 7s): And in the dark

Speaker 2 (20m 9s): Alone. And in the dark. And I’m not touching anything, including myself. There you go. But the reality is there, it, it’s, you know, there’s, there’s creative potential in problem solving. And, and i, I I, I ca I have to keep harping harkening back to that. It’s re you really get a charge out of fixing a scene and getting a scene together properly and having it be complete and good. There’s a sense of satisfaction that’s really hard to describe. I, I’m working with computers, I’m working in a creative visual field.

Right. I’m also interfacing with a lot of, you know, smaller producers now. Yes. And helping them with their production process and consulting with them and helping them make the scenes even better. And, you know, it, it feels like I’m, it’s weird cause I’m doing porn, I’m editing porn. Right. But it feels like I’m contributing to society in some way. Like I’m actually helping the world come together in some very, very small way. So

Speaker 1 (21m 2s): Becomes, just smelled differently.

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Well you didn’t do that, did you?

Speaker 1 (21m 7s): I did. You

Speaker 2 (21m 7s): Did. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Had to go there.

Speaker 2 (21m 11s): What are we gonna do

Speaker 1 (21m 12s): With you? I don’t know. I’ve been, I’ve been corrupted in this industry for way too long. Carl. You wouldn’t be both right. You

Speaker 2 (21m 20s): Would be both. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (21m 23s): So who’s your target audience? Studios or independent? I can say independent producers and why? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21m 31s): Well, you know, it’s a mix. I’ve got studio clients with big budgets and huge productions, but I’m seeing more and more individual producers as time goes on. I, I love the ability, I love the stability that a studio can bring. Like a, if a studio wants to send me four or five scenes a month and have me just do everything that’s great. More than happy to do that. But the individual producers, there’s more interesting things happening in that landscape. Mm. As everyone is sort of creatively expanding their own possibilities at the same time and they’re doing really progressive things and pushing the boundaries of the media and they’re people that you can work with.

Right. So, Sure. A big part of what I do, I’ve said this before, I do consulting on productions as well and, and letting these folks, letting these producers know all the little tricks that make all the difference that can really make, really make a scene shine, you know? That’s awesome. Yeah. So I, I really enjoy working with individual producers, but I’m not gonna ever turn down a studio job. Oh sure. Cuz you know, if you, it’s just a whole different ball of wax. So Sure. I’ll do it all. I’ll do it. Oh,

Speaker 1 (22m 39s): So I, you know, so I would think actually that that consulting can be very, very valuable to a company because it’s going to help them shoot so people like yourself can do a good job of editing.

Speaker 2 (22m 54s): Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it’s funny, like even little things like the 180 degree rule, right? In, in filmmaking there’s a rule that the camera shouldn’t cross the 180 degree line of your subjects. So if you have a, a subject on the left and a subject on the right, the subject on the left should always be on the left of the screen and the subject on the right should always be on the right. That’s also

Speaker 1 (23m 16s): Many times that’s also called reversing the vector. Right.

Speaker 2 (23m 19s): Reversing the vector. But it’s how many times you’ll see I went

Speaker 1 (23m 21s): To, I went to broadcasting school, Right.

Speaker 2 (23m 23s): You’ll see producers come around the opposite side with their, with their B cam and suddenly the person on the left’s on the right and it’s like, well there’s nothing I can do with that. So I end up flipping the screen, but then sometimes text is backwards and it’s just like the, like little things like that and, you know, you try and tell that to a larger studio, they’re like, Oh no, how to shoot. And I’m like, you’re right. Whatever you, however you wanna do it is fine. But if you say that to a smaller, smaller producer, like, Oh wait, I didn’t know that. That’s really great, Tell me more. And you can sort of create a dialogue with them and work with them to make the products better.

Like, I don’t think that I, I can’t take credit for what these people are doing cuz they’re on the front lines with their fingers in the mud. Figuratively. But, you know, I can give them my perspective as an editor and be like, Hey, here’s, you know, you’re, you’re doing a three cam shoot, but all three cameras are within six inches of each other and from the same angle, if you spread those out, then you’ll have a little bit more of an interesting thing. And they’re like, Oh wow, that’s interesting. Okay. And they come back and then the next scene is even better. And it’s just like, you know, there’s, it, it really feels great to, to collaborate with people on that level to help just make everything look better.

Speaker 1 (24m 31s): I would What, what percentage of your time are you spending consulting and what percentage are you spending on post production?

Speaker 2 (24m 38s): You know, it’s very, it’s very small. It depends on the clients. Right. I, I’m finding that the, the individual producers, like the independent producers, the fan site operators are very interested in hearing tips and things. But you know, it only takes me two seconds to say, Hey, spread your cameras out and do one medium, one wide and one close. It’s true. And I will edit them together. You don’t have to worry about every shot and that takes five seconds as opposed to the six hours it’s gonna take me to actually edit the footage. So it’s part, it’s just sort of an undercurrent to everything I do is, is giving feedback and talking to producers and understanding if they want my input or not.

Right. Sometimes guys

Speaker 1 (25m 16s): Yeah, of course

Speaker 2 (25m 17s): I say guys, people want to do it the way they’re doing it. So you have to respect that. Of course.

Speaker 1 (25m 23s): Yeah. And you gotta be careful because their egos are involved.

Speaker 2 (25m 26s): Yeah. Well wait till they get a load on me. Right.

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): So you just mentioned fan sites, that’s obviously the new reality in adult. How can you help content creators that run their own fan site?

Speaker 2 (25m 40s): Oh, well I’ll tell you number one, having a good at it and this fan site or, or even big students, but having a good editor frees the creators to do the important stuff, which is Right. Creating their content. Sure. And you know, I’m not a one and done kind of shop. I’m actually interested in working with these people and helping them make the best content they can. So Sure, there’s all of that as well. But you’ve this, it’s this whole thing about shooting for the edit. Just give your editor the right tools, get the job done. And that, that’s just a communication that you can have with the creators.

Right. But you know, it’s the collaborative input that I can offer. I wanna give them what they want. They have a vision of what they wanna see, but you know, they might not have the kind of visual vocabulary that I have as an editor Sure. To say, Hey, if you just tweak this this little way, this would look so good. Here’s an example of what I mean. And then suddenly they’re like, Oh yeah, actually now I do see what you mean. Do it that way. Right. Or they’re like, No, I hate you. Shut up and just do what I said. But either way. But you know, for me it’s, it’s the, the idea that there could be collaboration to make, make something bigger than either of us could have made on our own is, is the exciting part of working with those folks.

Speaker 1 (26m 48s): Sure. So why would someone outsource their video editing instead of just hiring someone to edit in house?

Speaker 2 (26m 56s): Are you talking about outsourcing video editing to just anyone or stiff media? Cause I mean, Well

Speaker 1 (27m 3s): I would, well I would hope you

Speaker 2 (27m 5s): Yeah, me too. Right. But I, I think it makes a sense on a lot of different levels. And number one just, and I said this before, just cuz someone knows how to use Premiere Pro or Da Vinci Resolve or Final Cut doesn’t make them a good editor. Correct. And I think people get hung up by, by putting someone in front of a computer in front of an editing program and saying, Hey, we’ve got an editor with Stiff Media, we are filled with very good editors and I’m at the top of that heap. I’m the person in charge of it all Right. So you’ve got award-winning editors working on your content and that says a lot. Sure.

But beyond just the talent of the people who are cutting the scenes, you know, it just doesn’t always make sense for studios or even in individual producers to maintain an editing suite in house. You know, there’s, there’s software and technology and you don’t wanna pay someone to be sitting in front of a computer while a scene renders. Right. We do all the heavy lifting so producers can just worry about the content and that’s kind of liberating on a lot of fronts. Right.

Speaker 1 (28m 1s): Yeah. I kinda liken it to what I do and brokering websites and also, you know, our marketing company, I’ve had companies tell me, Oh yeah, we have a marketing guy or we have a marketing gal. Yep. Okay. And if you dig deeper, you find out they just got outta college, they had a mar they have a marketing degree.

Speaker 2 (28m 21s): It’s funny cuz I get that same thing with, Oh, we already have an editor. Yeah. Right. The automatic response for any time you try to tell somebody about the service that you’re offering is to say, you, you’re not innovating because whatever you have, we already have it. Yeah. And I think that that’s just a knee jerk reaction that people have to protect themselves so that they don’t feel like they’re missing something by not already having the thing that you’re selling them. Right. Yeah. And you know, even for me, even if you have an in-house editor, like there’s still plenty of ways that I can help.

There’s, there’s production consultation, there’s all the special effects and the color grading stuff that I do that most editors don’t have any foggiest idea how to approach most in-house editors. Some do, there’s lots of people out there that do a great job at that. But you know, there’s a good chance that there’s lots that we can do anyways. And even if it’s, you know, there’s overflow, there’s times when a single editor in house can’t handle the volume of work that’s being produced. So it always helps to have a backup plan. And I’ll, I’ll take the backup role. I don’t care.

Speaker 1 (29m 22s): Yeah. That’s their money’s green. So let’s say

Speaker 2 (29m 27s): He says, he says looking at his, his Gavyn award,

Speaker 1 (29m 32s): So

Speaker 2 (29m 32s): I won an award. It’s like, it’s like the Oscars for gay porn.

Speaker 1 (29m 36s): Nice. You won that?

Speaker 2 (29m 38s): Yeah. Well, not really. I mean it’s a bit of a misnomer. One of the videos that I, I wanna grab a couple years ago for one of the videos I worked on, but one of the videos I worked on really closely Shehe UX was the director and I worked really closely with the, the guys who were shooting it and she, she to, we had to go in afterwards and film extra stuff and I felt really closely attached to it and it won best all sex feature. That’s great. Just before the pandemic. And it’s funny because I was at the, at the AVN slash Gian show while all this was going on and it was February of 2020 just before the pandemic.

Right. And we were all hearing about the pandemic and we’re walking around going, ah, it’s probably nothing. And then all of a sudden one of the guys, one of the camera guys on our team got sick and had to go home and we’re all like, Should we be getting Purell and wiping down everything?

Speaker 1 (30m 31s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (30m 31s): Suddenly we were like, well, and who knew? Like we’d all be on lockdown for three years,

Speaker 1 (30m 35s): Wipe down the world.

Speaker 2 (30m 37s): Oh my God. Remember, remember when that was going on? And and they, they convinced us that we just had to wash our hands and we’d be fine.

Speaker 1 (30m 44s): Yeah. That was a really scary time. I mean, I remember being in March in Tempe and I’m always down there or somewhere in Arizona, I don’t remember March.

Speaker 2 (30m 55s): Was that the last Phoenix Forum

Speaker 1 (30m 56s): Or No, that was the year after the last Phoenix Forum was 2019. So those

Speaker 2 (31m 1s): Are good times.

Speaker 1 (31m 2s): Yeah. God, I missed that show. So I think it’s where you’re needed

Speaker 2 (31m 6s): It while it was going on, Right? What’s that? It was not enjoyable at all while it’s going on. But now that it’s not around anywhere, I’m like, Oh, those are good times.

Speaker 1 (31m 13s): Yeah, no, I always loved the show. I always had a great time with the show too. I, Yeah. And, and it was as far as the gay space that was the show.

Speaker 2 (31m 22s): Oh yeah. Back then, the gay side of the industry, we had, we had some cache if we showed up at something, it seemed like the rest of the industry paid attention that we were going there. And I don’t know how that happened, but it was, you know, there was Morgan and I and a group of us that became really close friends. Yeah. And sort of that friendship I think created the sense in the rest of the industry of importance whenever we showed up. Yeah. Cause we always just stuck together and it was, you know, it was, it was the Velvet Mafia, but it was very funny.

Speaker 1 (31m 51s): Yeah. That’s where, that’s where I no doubt, met Morgan and Tim and, you know, all the, the core group in the, in the gay space and Yeah. You know, it’s, I miss those parties, man. I miss those, those, those were some great times, some really great

Speaker 2 (32m 7s): Times. It was really fun. And, you know, good business going on too. Yes. Yes. And it just felt like, it felt like the wild West in a lot of ways. But it wasn’t, this was, I I, I can remember back to when these events were people like you and me talking to each other and then eventually at some point people like you and me started sending our sales people to talk to people like you and me.

Speaker 1 (32m 27s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (32m 28s): I was like, what am I, what am I talking to a salesperson for? Like what is happening? So, Exactly. It’s funny, the industry changed in a heartbeat and the way that people did business change in the heartbeat and then Exactly. Man, wind ruined it all.

Speaker 1 (32m 42s): Yeah. That definitely was not a good thing. So, Oh, so I was saying that it’s March, 2020 and I was down there. I was actually down there. I used to go every year for baseball and then right after baseball would be the Phoenix Forum. I spend a month down there watching my Giants. Well

Speaker 2 (32m 58s): That’s right. The, the grapefruit league, not the Grapefru League, but spring training goes on down there.

Speaker 1 (33m 2s): Yeah. Cactus league. Cactus League Grape Grapefruits, Florida. I’ve never seen a grapefruit in Arizona. Probably never will. The supermarket. Supermarket.

Speaker 2 (33m 10s): I think I got confused cuz one year the Blue Jays had to be in Arizona. Really? Something was going on in Florida. I forget what it was, but, so I, my brain plus I’m an old lady so I can’t keep any facts straight.

Speaker 1 (33m 22s): You’re so funny. I remember that we’re watching CNN when I used to watch CNN and I watch, I used to watch any news which I tried to avoid these days. It depresses me ever since January 6th.

Speaker 2 (33m 35s): That’s just

Speaker 1 (33m 36s): Infuriating. 2021. It, it just depresses me. So we here San Francisco Bay area has just been locked down. I looked at my wife and I’m like, these exact words were fucking outta here. They had just stopped spring training and I have a t-shirt, by the way, a Giants t-shirt that says, just getting started.

Speaker 2 (33m 59s): Not really now

Speaker 1 (34m 0s): I love that shirt. I just love that shirt. And so at that point, spring training was over. So we had over the weekend, gone out to Grand Canyon in Sedona over a couple days and come back and it was a Tuesday and on Friday we flew to LA and we, we were on a a j A L flight from LA to Tokyo to Bangkok. And we got outta there and I’m amazed that we got a flight. But anyway, it was really weird time.

An extremely weird time. So back to the questions, sir. Let’s say I’m looking, cause you and I can be us all day. Let’s say I’m looking for an editor. We’re both good at it. What should I look for? So teach me to be the expert in hiring one.

Speaker 2 (34m 50s): Oh, it’s easy. Step one, hire stiff media. Okay, Step two. There is no step two,

Speaker 1 (34m 56s): Step two, repeat, Step one,

Speaker 2 (34m 58s): Wash, rinse, repeat. But I mean, sir, you know what I would say look for an editor that’s gonna ask questions and be interested in the story that you’re trying to tell. And it’s hard to think that there’s stories important. Like, I don’t mean like, you know, there’s somebody order a pizza that’s plot, This is a story, it’s something very different. And a story could just be, you know, the, the way that someone goes from fully clothed to glistening insertion, like Right. There’s a craft to that. But a good editor is gonna ask you questions and any editor that quotes you a flat rate without knowing the job or what’s involved has to cut corners.

It’s a fact of life. So if you’ve got someone, someone, I’ll

Speaker 1 (35m 38s): Do it. Run, don’t run and hide. Right.

Speaker 2 (35m 39s): Well yeah. Or run and hide or run to your computer and go directly to stiff media.com and contact me.

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): Yes. Do not

Speaker 2 (35m 46s): Pass shameless self promotion com.

Speaker 1 (35m 48s): Do not pass, do not collect $200.

Speaker 2 (35m 51s): Yeah. I mean listen, you gotta have a relationship with your editor and it’s not always fun cuz they’re always under the stress of not having the, the con or the, the footage that they need in order to say what they feel they wanna say. And, but you know, your editor needs to understand what you want so they can give it to you quickly and effectively. Anyone who says offers you a flat rate, Oh a hundred bucks a scene. Like, just go on fiber, then throw, throw your footage in the air and wherever it lands, that’s your edit cuz that’s about what you’re gonna get. And again, if all else fails, just hire stiff media.

Speaker 1 (36m 24s): Where have I heard, where have I heard that before? God sounds familiar. Sounds really familiar. So what’s what’s the number one thing you tell new clients before you’re editing their content?

Speaker 2 (36m 36s): Oh, that’s a good question. Which is something someone said.

Speaker 1 (36m 40s): I know because I asked it

Speaker 2 (36m 40s): When they don’t have an answer ready for the

Speaker 1 (36m 42s): Question. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (36m 44s): But there’s not, you know, it’s not like one thing. It’s really, it’s a conversation. So if I’m talking to a new client, my first job is always to understand what, where they’re coming from, what they need. You know, I need to know what kind of cameras they shot on the frame rates, the picture profiles. Are they using second system audio? What are they, what is their output? Where, what certain intended audience? Is it going on the web? Is it going to dvd? Are they going to broadcast? Cuz everything is a little bit different and how you’re gonna color grade it is different if it’s going on TV versus the internet.

So it, it’s really, it’s not about the number one. You know what, I guess the one thing I tell new clients is I can’t quote you anything until I find out more about what you’re doing. Yeah. And it’s weird because some people appreciate that and other people just have no time for it. They’re just like, I just wanna know what you’re doing. Like here I’ve got 500 previews I need you to do. Here’s, here’s 30 DVDs. I need 500 previews from it. And I’m like, Okay, I can do that, but I can’t quote you until I know all this other stuff.

Like, yes, I want to give people the right, the right finished product. I don’t wanna just do the job and get the, the check. I’ve been in this industry way too long and you know, it’s, it’s not, I don’t, I don’t need to do this to pay my rent anymore. I’m doing this because it’s, it’s something that’s enjoyable and I really feel that I can contribute to the process. So I really approach it from that point of view.

Speaker 1 (38m 5s): And you know what asking questions is what any professional should do. You see an attorney, they ask you lots of questions about the case. You see a doctor, they ask you where it hurts, how long does it hurt? Okay. Right. So if you’re in, in my case, a website broker, I ask to see financials. I ask for a history of the website. I ask why you’re selling in my marketing work, I’m asking people a whole bank of questions so I can actually see where they’re at and where they’re going.

So if you’re a professional, you should be asking questions, lots of questions. And if you don’t ask questions, then that person isn’t a professional. That’s my fear.

Speaker 2 (38m 48s): Yeah. I mean, you wanna get to the point with your customers or I want to get to the point with my customers where, you know, I just know them well enough and I know what each individual is looking for, that they can just send me their stuff and I can decipher what the plot is based on what I know about them. But that doesn’t, that doesn’t come, you know, out of thin air. Right. Like it takes, it takes a long time to build that relationship and build the trust and build the understanding. And you know, that’s, that’s the constant process that you’re always involved in with your customers, especially on the editing side of the business.

Speaker 1 (39m 17s): Absolutely. Are, Do you think plots are dead in adult videos?

Speaker 2 (39m 22s): Well, I, we touched on this earlier. I don’t, I don’t think, I mean, plots are boring, right? But story is everything. So plots are the, did somebody order a pizza or plots are, or trying to sell plot. But instead we’re in Florida and now we’re having gang bang in the hotel room. That is not story. That’s just plot. Yes. But story can unfold in any situation. And story involves conflict in characters and change. And it’s the thing that is really engaging. And I think the people that are really excelling right now understand that whether it’s a cocky boys or it’s a disruptive films or, you know, a Noel Alejandro, the people that are really sort of standing out for the quality of their content all understand that that story is separate from plot and the context of what you’re doing doesn’t matter what you’re doing and what the people on the screen are doing is the thing that’s engaging the customers, engaging the viewers.

Right. So, sure. I don’t, I don’t think plot is dead, although I think it should be

Speaker 1 (40m 24s): Kill it. Kill it.

Speaker 2 (40m 26s): But you know, in my defense as well, a good edit can make or break any story. Sure. So whether, whether you have a story or, or a crappy plot. If you got a crappy edit, it’s gonna look crappy no matter what

Speaker 1 (40m 39s): Crap equals crap.

Speaker 2 (40m 40s): Wow. There’s that. Right.

Speaker 1 (40m 42s): So as an editor you see all the behind the scenes footage on every production. What’s the most interesting thing you’ve ever seen when editing a video?

Speaker 2 (40m 51s): Now? Was there air quotes around the word interesting there, Bruce? Interesting. I mean,

Speaker 1 (40m 59s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (40m 59s): There’s been so many and I, you know, I can’t really, I can’t talk about the funny stuff because that would be betraying the confidence of my customers. But there’s all kinds of funny stuff. I think for me, you know, it’s not one incident so much as it’s just seeing the process behind the scenes. Seeing what she, she larou is like when she’s not directing, when you catch the glimpses of her without being on as a character, seeing what the porn stars are like when they’re not on, when they’re not, you know, engaged in fornication when they’re just hanging around.

Like seeing the real people, setting up the scenes in the background. That process I find infinitely fascinating. And it’s a look, it’s something that so few people get to ever see. So it feels almost perverted, but not in a dirty way almost.

Speaker 1 (41m 51s): So for not perverted in a dirty way, it’s perverted in not in a dirty way. That’s interesting. Good clean

Speaker 2 (41m 58s): Perversion. You

Speaker 1 (41m 59s): Understand? Oh yeah. Little good, little good clean perversion. I like that. That’s a Carl, I come up with a new vocabulary every time I talk to you.

Speaker 2 (42m 8s): That’s what I’m here for.

Speaker 1 (42m 10s): You said you can’t talk about the funny stuff because you’ll violate confidence, but you don’t have to identify who it is. Tell me one story.

Speaker 2 (42m 19s): No, I can’t. It’s

Speaker 1 (42m 21s): Too, too heroin.

Speaker 2 (42m 22s): Something funny. No, but, but I will tell you this much. Okay. You don’t, you don’t even get your official badge of being a, a pornographer, especially a gay pornographer until someone shits on your face. This is part rule.

Speaker 1 (42m 38s): Ok. Yes.

Speaker 2 (42m 39s): It was like, it’s like, oh, you shoot porn. Yeah. Did somebody shit on your face yet? No. Then you don’t shoot porn.

Speaker 1 (42m 46s): That’s all I’m saying. Yeah. You know, I’m getting the visual and it’s not a good one.

Speaker 2 (42m 51s): Yeah. I mean, you know, one of my funny taglines for this, for this business is editing is more than taking out the farts and giggles, but it’s most definitely involves taking out the farts and giggles.

Speaker 1 (43m 4s): Nice. So you have obviously a lot of experience in the gay space, maybe more than anybody. So do you anticipate most of your business coming from the gay market or from straight as well?

Speaker 2 (43m 18s): You know, it’s funny. Most of my business comes from the gay side of the industry. Sure. But I think that’s just happenstance.

Speaker 1 (43m 24s): Well, that’s your, that’s contacts.

Speaker 2 (43m 26s): It’s my contacts. It’s, it’s who I’ve known and you know, I’ve got a few clients that produce straight content and they’re super happy with the job that I do. But most of the stuff that comes through stiff media is gay. Yeah. Would I personally rather look at dick’s or pussy? Well, you know, I’d rather just watch TV and go to bed to be honest. But, Or, or order a pizza. Well,

Speaker 1 (43m 49s): It’s do, do you anticipate more straight business coming?

Speaker 2 (43m 54s): You know, I, I honestly don’t judge customers in that way. Like any new customer that’s coming to me that wants to get editing, we have that conversation. We figure out what people want. Sure. Most of the time the straight customers that are coming through it, it’s weird, but they’re the customers that have ready made content that they want Tube clips for or they want 32nd previews for, or they want me to chop up scenes and create other things for it. It’s not like the same thing where we’re creating a production, which is what most of the customers that are producing gay content do for me.

And I think it’s just all happenstance. I’m not replacing a judgment on the, the straight side of the industry, but it’s weird. It’s more of a fast and in and out. Oh, here we go. It’s an in and out industry. They’re like, Yeah, whatever. Tits, Tits, click, click give me, gimme previews, Right? Tits

Speaker 1 (44m 45s): Cock pussy, goodbye

Speaker 2 (44m 47s): Tits cock pussy. Goodbye. Did somebody order a pizza?

Speaker 1 (44m 52s): It’s funny that whenever the pool guy’s here, I say he’s the world’s most famous porn star.

Speaker 2 (44m 58s): Who’s your, who’s your is Jeff Striker Cleaning pools. Now what?

Speaker 1 (45m 6s): You’re so funny. You’re so I’m the worst by the way. You’ve mentioned a team. How many editors do you have working for

Speaker 2 (45m 12s): You? There’s three people that I bounce between, including myself, but I also have other people that I rely on for motion graphics. And if there’s a really tough color grading, I’ve got a a per a really great colorist. So it’s, it’s sort of a virtual company at this point. Cause that’s just, Yeah, that’s the way the world works now. But you know, it’s, it fluctuates anywhere between three and half a dozen people depending on the jobs that are that required. And I could expand that as much as necessary. But the important thing, if I’m gonna talk about expanding, everyone has to understand that I’m the final say on any edit on the, on any project.

Sure. That comes through our door. So if somebody does all the grunt work, I go through and do the finishing touches on it to make sure that it’s exactly up to the quality

Speaker 1 (45m 55s): Control freak, huh?

Speaker 2 (45m 57s): Yeah. But most of the time, most of the time, to be honest, I’m doing most of it myself cuz I kind of like it.

Speaker 1 (46m 3s): So Sure you do. I know it’s obvious. I can hear the passion. I can hear the passion for what you do and I think anything you do. What’s

Speaker 2 (46m 11s): That? That’s my emphysema.

Speaker 1 (46m 13s): Oh, I’m sorry. Okay. I get confused. Well, Carl, it was a pleasure having it back on. Adult site broker talk again,

Speaker 2 (46m 23s): Always a pleasure. It’s like, it’s like we’re just having a phone conversation. It doesn’t feel like we’re actually doing a real podcast except for all the mentions of stick media.com. Yeah, Stick media.com, stiff media.com.

Speaker 1 (46m 36s): Anyway, I hope we’ll get a chance and do this again soon. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about converting traffic and improving user experience. Make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer isn’t good, you won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or to get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you’re selling something, make buying easy.

Show them an easy way to buy and then leave. Help them by making suggestions on what to buy. amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this if you can. Don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons and images, keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones.

The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to take. It’s not that hard. Just remember, when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process like a human being. Whatever you do, don’t turn over that process to your designer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is you’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Steph Sia of Stripped by Sia.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Karl Edwards of Stiff Media. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Jerry Davies of Najers, the makers of Balldo.

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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer an amazing opportunity. If you’re in the live cams model management or fan site space, or want to get into them, we have a private listing that may be just right for you. This company works with all major CAM sites and has access to hundreds of US based models.

We’re offering very limited information at the seller’s request. In order to maintain privacy, we anticipate multiple offers for this very rare listing. For more information, contact us on our website@adultsitebroker.com. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Jerry Davies of nas, the makers of bdo. Jerry, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 15s): It’s a pleasure, Bruce. Very glad to be here.

Speaker 1 (2m 18s): Glad to have you. It took us a while.

Speaker 2 (2m 20s): Yeah, well we got here in the end, so yeah, to have this chat

Speaker 1 (2m 25s): Indeed. Me too. Now Jerry is your classic ahead of the game entrepreneur having predicted market trends by setting up the world’s first Echo Superstore in Australia in 2007 by doing an electric bike manufacturing company in the UK in 2014. Most recently, he designed NA’s first product, Thedo Jerry and his now business partner Elizabeth, saw the massive untapped opportunity with products for men’s balls one night while making ball jokes over a bottle of wine.

Must have been a good one to be at. At in 2019. They patented BDO and a whole range of other ball related products. They used crowdfund crowdfunding to fund the bdo with the campaign launching in February, 2021, BDO hit its funding target in 10 hours and went on to sell $105,000 worth of products via Indiegogo. The hilarious launch video of the bdo, and you’ve gotta see this, it’s just God, we’ll have you on the floor.

It’s cemented its position as a cult icon, particularly in the US where it’s received high profile coverage on Howard Stern, cosmopolitan, Vice Wired, and Playboy to name a few. So he was, Jerry was on coward Stern. Now he’s really slumming it with me now. Yours is working hard to launch more products, including a new and improved vibrating version of the bald. It will be on the shelves at Christmas time. I’m sorry, Jerry. That’s all the time we have for today. So, just kidding.

When did you first realize that you were an entrepreneur?

Speaker 2 (4m 2s): It’s, that’s the funny one actually, Bruce, because I think, you know, I, I was selling, buying secondhand lawn mowers at the age of about 14 and earning more money than my father by giving him a wipe with an oily rag and selling them on. So technically I kind of should have been classified as an entrepreneur then, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t until my sort of late thirties that I really thought, Hang on a minute, I’ve got this pattern of, do a normal job, get bored, come up with an idea, start a business and do that business.

You know? So it took a long while. You know, there was nobody there to tell me, you are an entrepreneur. You know, I just had to sort of figure it out for myself.

Speaker 1 (4m 50s): Sure. Well, nobody ever tells you, you, look, here’s the thing, you’re either an entrepreneur or you’re not. And there are two types of people in this world. There are people who have companies and there are people who work for those companies.

Speaker 2 (5m 6s): Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. It’s, I I, I think what, what I’m trying to say is my, my sort of entrepreneurialism is kind of mixed with being an inventor as well. Right, right. I’m a kind of inventor entrepreneur is probably the, the best way to describe me.

Speaker 1 (5m 25s): And what was your, what was your first invention?

Speaker 2 (5m 28s): What was my first invention? I think I invented a wind turine that fitted underneath the eves of a house when I was about five for a, for a TV show. And I won a prize for it, but it wouldn’t have worked. Never would’ve worked. But he’s gotta

Speaker 1 (5m 47s): Go. You invented it. Nobody ever said it had to work.

Speaker 2 (5m 51s): Probably people have invented it right now. There’s, I mean, that’s one thing you realize about being a sort of inventor is, and entrepreneurs, there’s so many people who just launching stuff that’s just never gonna work, and they raise some money for it and get some investment, but it doesn’t work

Speaker 1 (6m 7s): Well. How about practical? How about practical inventions that did work. What was the first one of those?

Speaker 2 (6m 13s): Oh, the first one that works, I would say it was a, I was working for a major biscuit manufacturer. Cookie manufacturer in US parlance. And there was a particular type of conveyor, which sort of, with these biscuits all over the factory. And I invented this sort of universal guide rail for this conveyor that could be sort of rapidly moved up, down, left right.

And all that sort of stuff. But, you know, I was, I was pretty young. Didn’t have any financial backing. I, I tried to patent it. Didn’t end up doing it just because the cost, you know? Yeah. But I would say that was my first sort of unique invention. Very, very cool. I, I’ve actually seen that and been done, you know, maybe 10 years ago somebody sort of did it and commercialized it, so, you

Speaker 1 (7m 16s): Know. Damn damnit. Yeah. That was your invention.

Speaker 2 (7m 19s): I know. But you know, unless you’ve got a huge pot of money and endless patience with patent writing. Right. You know, it’s, you can’t just keep pumping out the ideas, you know, you, you have to keep some in your head. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 34s): Inventing things is really an art onto itself, isn’t

Speaker 2 (7m 38s): It? Definitely, definitely. And, and, and I think qualification is, is the key skill you have as an inventor. It’s just, is what you’ve come up with a, a product that’s actually useful? Is it a, is it a product that’s gonna make any money? Is it a product that’s gonna maybe be more relevant in the future than it is now? If so, is your patent worthwhile investing in now to wait for something to happen 15 years down the track?

So I think qualification, looking at all the, spreading it all out, doing your research, that that is the skill of being an inventor. I think

Speaker 1 (8m 17s): Just like what you just talked about. Were there other, was there other knowledge that you picked up in your early experiences that you have now that you wished you had back then?

Speaker 2 (8m 28s): Oh my god, Yeah. Well, we, my, my business partner and I back in Australia in the early naughts, we, we set up this eco superstore and one of the things we did was carbon trading. So we were, we were making, we were replacing light globes and in people’s houses and fitting solar panels, and we were basically getting a, a carbon credit, which we could then trade on, on the market. Sure. And this business, you know, I went from sort of earning 30 grand a year to earning, you know, 10 million a year within one year.

Wow. And we did that for three years running, so totally wet behind the years, no idea about finances. Just kept thinking, oh, you know, the, the gold’s just gonna keep coming year after year and we’ll build our dream of Yeah. This being a mainstream brand all around the world. We never had our eye on the books and particularly the, the risks that we’re, we were exposed to. And I think, you know, now if I could go back and speak to myself back then, I’d just go, look, this is a p and l, this is a balance sheet.

Look at the size of your payroll bill. Yeah. This is something called forecasting. What happens if sort of modeling. Yeah. And, and I think the other thing was, you know, don’t trust your bloody accountants. You need, you need to check what they’ve done and Right. You know, forensically analyze, you know, what they’re advising you and maybe take second and third opinions because Sure. You know, we, we just employed, you know, some reasonably high tier accountants who just charged us an absolute fortune and didn’t really give us any, Don’t do this, don’t do that.

So yeah, that was the single biggest hole in my early experience, was just the financial understanding, I think. And it’s such a shame because there was a lot of money in that business. A lot of money.

Speaker 1 (10m 39s): I bet. So tell us how you came up with the idea of the boulder.

Speaker 2 (10m 44s): Yeah, so, so the, the wine and the, as discussed in the sort of the, the preamble was kind of like the, the culmination of the qualification period. So I, you know, I’m, I’m a kinky bastard and I, I like, so I, I like, I like sort of experimenting a bit and I act, it’s a funny story of this. So I, I, I went on a friend of mine’s stag, do, I dunno if you call it aag do in the US us you know, what’s that bugs party before you get married?

Speaker 1 (11m 24s): Oh, you’re talking about a bachelor party.

Speaker 2 (11m 26s): Bachelor party. There you go.

Speaker 1 (11m 29s): Great movie.

Speaker 2 (11m 31s): I’ve never seen that. I’ve never seen that. I must watch it. We, my God.

Speaker 1 (11m 36s): Yes, you must. It’s a classic.

Speaker 2 (11m 39s): We did this thing called oceaneering. I dunno if you’ve ever heard of that. It’s ba basically you, you, you clamber along rocks on the, on the coastline on a cliff, and then you just jump in off those rocks into the ocean.

Speaker 1 (11m 50s): So I mean, what could go wrong? Right.

Speaker 2 (11m 52s): Well, here’s what went wrong. So I was wearing some non appropriate underwear, shall we say, or, you know, I wasn’t wearing my speedo, which kept my, my nuts tightly fast into my body. So I, I jumped off this rock and I ended up, as we say in the UK dropping a ball, you know, dropping a bullock and shit. And I, I came out and like, my balls were just sort of feeling a bit weird and I looked, and one of them was just much lower than the other.

And I thought, Oh no, what’s going on here? And took some advice from the, the doctor and he said, Oh, you’ve, you’ve gotta be very careful here because you know, you’ve, you’ve effectively stretched your, your, your tubes going to your, your testes. And no, I was like, No,

Speaker 1 (12m 47s): Making me hurt, just hearing about it.

Speaker 2 (12m 50s): But, but the weird thing was, I, I thought, well, hang on a minute. This, when I, when I pulled down on my ballsack with my thumb, my four four finger, they feel okay. They feel right. So I bought myself one of these stainless steel ball weights, ball stretches, and I wore that for a bit and the problem went away. It’s just kind of like, put them in the right place and stopped them feeling like they were sort of loose, you know, rolling around in the trunk of the car.


Speaker 1 (13m 23s): That’s good to hear.

Speaker 2 (13m 24s): Yeah. So I, I managed to sort of cure myself just by sort of reorganizing my ball, shall we say. And then I thought, well, hang on a minute. This, this is actually quite a nice sensation. I like this. You know, people, people have been doing this for years. It’s, it’s way, way popular in, in the, in the gay community. Oh yeah. And I thought, well, what about if I, you know, add a bit more weight to, to this and, you know, how much can the balls take? And I was sort of pleasantly surprised and, and this is it.

I’m not, and I’m not an extreme person in this sense at all. You know, I won’t do, I’m not into pain and stuff like that in, in the bedroom. It was just more sort of a mild sort of edging sort of sensation. So yeah, the ball, I figured out the boards could actually really take quite a lot of, a lot of weight. I’ve, I found out that they could, they feel they felt a lot happier being sort of cupped or held in a position.

And I’ve always had really sort of sensitive boards. I don’t, I don’t like people licking them or poking them or fondling them. I like them to be sort of slightly tugged, bit of a, just think of that thumb and forefinger around the top pulling down a little bit. That is the sort of optimum position for the, the balls. So yeah, we, being engineers that we are having a 3D printer, we, we made some early prototypes of, you know, a kind of ball cage that sort of organized the balls.

And the idea originally was it would be a sort of edging device and a tugging device. And then we thought, well, geez, actually you could put these inside somebody, you know, and that’s where we sort of put the, the tip on the front and we had to invent a, a compressible, a non-compressible cord that actually was expandable in, in one plane. So you could get the, the balls in the top and hey ho, that first BS sex experience was had and it, and it was good.


Speaker 1 (15m 37s): I’ll take your word for it.

Speaker 2 (15m 38s): Well, this is it, you know, there’s, you know, like you were saying earlier, there’s the people who work for people and the people who own companies. I think it’s the same with boss. Absolutely. The same with boss. You have the people who you going in my balls, I’ll punch you in the face and then you have to do what you like with my balls. I love it. You know, there’s, there’s those two camps and what I figured out is if you tell the, the, the guys who wanna run a mile, when you mention anything about balls, to just cut their balls and just do what I said, just tuck down a little bit, they go, Oh yeah, that’s, that’s nice.

I like that my boss feel safe. So it’s, it’s a case of convincing those, those people that you know, you’re gonna be alright if you wear a border or, or anything like that. Right.

Speaker 1 (16m 24s): Yeah. I think it’s definitely a bit of a paradigm shift and yeah, I mean my, my initial impression is Hmm. Balls, huh. But hey, you know, I I, I know that from everything you and I have talked about, it’s, it’s something that can be very useful. Tell us what steps you took to patent the idea and what is actually protected by the patent.

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): Yeah. Well, I, I can tell you that because it’s patented. Yes. And, you know, there’s all this sort of stuff about, oh, you must have an NDA before you talk to people. Well, you know, a patent’s the best NDA in the world in, in

Speaker 1 (17m 6s): My view.

Speaker 2 (17m 7s): Yes, it is. I I have been advised as such. So yeah, the, the steps to patent were basically prototype, prototype, prototype, record all your prototypes, record all of the possibilities, all of the connections, all of the,

Speaker 1 (17m 22s): Yeah. When you say, when you, when you say record, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (17m 27s): Document? Just, just, just, it’s almost like you’re keeping a, a journal of of what you’ve done. All the different things that, you know, work didn’t work because when you pattern something, you can, you can record all of those Yes.

Speaker 1 (17m 44s): And include them.

Speaker 2 (17m 45s): Include them. Yeah. Sorry, include, And the only thing stopping you from including all of those options that you’ve explored is that it might conflict with some, but somebody else’s patent, somebody else’s prior art. So, Sure. In the case of Bordo, we, I think we’ve got over 35 pages of variance of the Bordeaux and ball cages that, you know, allow attachments, either tips for penetrations or tugs or vibrations and, and all of the attachment mechanisms possible.

So it’s a very robust, encompassing patent. Yeah. In terms of the steps of doing it, we, we’ve got the UK patent first, and then by doing so, you get a, a grace period sort of internationally where you can then file some something called the, the P C T, which is the, it’s kind of like the International Patent Convention Treaty. What that, once you file that, that then gives you two years of protection internationally to give you time to then file in each of those nations.

So as a result of doing well over the last two years since we filed the P ct, we have chosen the markets that we, we think, you know, we wanna secure and we’ve filed individual local patents in those areas. Right. I mean, unless you’ve got half a mill in the bank and you wanna throw that at patenting in every single country in the world. Yeah. You know, you’ve gotta look at where the value is, so

Speaker 1 (19m 36s): Right. You pick your best markets.

Speaker 2 (19m 37s): Exactly. Exactly. So that’s what’s been done, and here we are. And now, you know, by virtue of having this, this patent, we’ve got 20 years of exclusivity on, on the BDO design effectively. And nice. And I, and I think, you know, because I am prone to coming up with things a little before, they’re actually sort of, I would say, sort of, you know, the norm in a market or, or just a standard sort of product.

I, I think our, our, you know, our sort of our our day is, is yet to come, You know, we’ve had a good sort of early success, but really, I, I think balls will be a commonplace thing in all adult stores. There’ll be a ball section, there’ll be categories in eCommerce sites, and I think we’re still probably three to five years away from that. But, you know, as I said earlier, that was all part of the qualification. You know, how long is it gonna take for this to really sort of go off?

Sure. And where’s our value in the patent?

Speaker 1 (20m 44s): Right. So what other IP did you have, have, or do you have?

Speaker 2 (20m 49s): So obviously you’ve got the, the, the brand bdo, well the name Bordo. So that’s, that’s trademarked internationally as well. That’s kind of key because we had, we had a great success with our sort of launch campaign. Yes. And as you said earlier, the, the, the video was a cartoon. We produced kind of

Speaker 1 (21m 12s): Fabulous

Speaker 2 (21m 13s): South parking and style, huge amount of hits, lot of traffic coming from that. And hence, you know, BDOs became this sort of cult comedic kind of thing on a lot of the comedy sites. Right. And again, I still don’t think that’s, that’s gone anywhere near to its sort of true potential. It’s, it’s kind of got this cult status and, and I think B bordo ends up being a word like dildo, bordo, vibrator, you know, it’s, it’s a b ddo, so there’s not a lot of products out there that can just be classified by that, by a single word.

True. And instantly recognize. So again, in that three to five years scenario, Bordeaux, I don’t wanna say it’s a house old name because it’s not a household name, but to, to all of us grownups, we’ll know what a BDO is. Exactly. And that’s our, our brand. It’s our, it’s our, it reflects our ip, it’s our domain name, you know, it’s, yeah. It’s, it’s like having a website called dildo.com, you know, I guess

Speaker 1 (22m 23s): Gonna look that up. So how, how did you go about setting up a crowdfunding campaign?

Speaker 2 (22m 29s): That was great fun actually. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone just, just to do for a, a product of any kind. It’s, it’s, it requires a lot of massaging of supporters finding your supporters. And again, we were very, I don’t wanna say lucky, I think we planned well in doing the, the, the sort of comedic launch video because that got us up absolutely six to 10,000 subscriber base.

Just, just like that, you know, literally we had those signups in two or three days, pretty much was, it was crazy. So by having that many people pay, you know, paying attention when you launched a campaign, you know, they, they subscribed and, and within 10 hours we got our, our campaign target. But it was, it was, it was a lot of, a lot of tweaking, a lot of sort of, you know, sort of pre-launch PR interviews, things like that.

And that, that was tricky actually, because we had to send out kind of homemade samples to radio shows, to TV to podcasts. And these were, you know, it wasn’t ideal sending out a sort of handmades, These were hand poured BDOs that we made in my garage downstairs in, in a 3D printed mold. They worked, but, but they didn’t look anywhere near as pretty as the, the finished product. So. Right. Yeah. It’s a little bit iffy on the initial impressions, but Right.

We got there in the end.

Speaker 1 (24m 12s): That’s excellent. So how about marketing? How did you go about that?

Speaker 2 (24m 16s): Well, there we go again. So it, again, we thought, well, we need to kind of soften this a little bit. You know, if if we, if we, the, the people we were speaking to early on when we first started to sort of connect with the adult industry going, Oh, that’s very niche. You know, it’s a chastity device, it’s a, it’s, it’s a BDSM device, It’s, it’s gotta be a long while before this becomes a mainstream thing. So we thought, well, we, we need to soften this, so, so let’s, let’s look at a way that we can make this fun.

And one of the things that sort of really, really put us on the right track was, I dunno if you remember in the first Jurassic Park, the, the video, and they all sit in the theater and you’ve got burg there doing the, the talk through with the DNA that they find in the, in the mosquito, in the amber, that, that sort of simplification in a cartoon format that got us thinking. We’re like, Yeah, why don’t we do this? Why don’t we have a talking pair of balls?

And let’s just sort of

Speaker 1 (25m 20s): Makes me laugh every time I think about it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 23s): Let’s, let’s do this as a sort of public information film, you know, a bit bit duck and cover if, if you like. We, we were a hundred percent on the money with that because what it did was give us instantly the mainstream market. Yeah. We had total turnaround of expectations. You know, we are having, we have, I think it’s even gone up, like last time I checked, I think we had like 35% women buying the product. We can clearly see that it’s, it’s a main mainstream sort of buyers.

I’d say only about 20% are actually niche or a hardcore chastity, bdsm, that sort of stuff. So we’ve, we’ve, we’ve done the right thing. We’ve got it into mainstream where, you know, the bulk of the market is, so I think we go ourselves a pat on the back for the marketing.

Speaker 1 (26m 14s): Yeah. You know, I mean, you talk about the industry’s reaction and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen it in all my years in the industry where someone comes in from the outside with something different and everybody with, with their tunnel vision in fine form goes, Oh no, it’ll never work. No, it’ll never work. It’s, it’s, it’s very niche. It’s very niche. It’ll never work. But, and, and a lot of times the people are turned away and it doesn’t work.

But I, I love what you’ve done and like you said, the mainstream has adopted it, they’ve been receptive to it, and the mainstream is where you’re gonna make most of your money.

Speaker 2 (26m 59s): Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think, Go ahead. We, we, we, we had, and just to sort of, you know, back up what you’re saying there, we had in, you know, joining the Ex BS community and, and just sort of chatting to people on the, the forums there, having sort of early meetings on Covid, you know, some sort of quite senior figures in the industry were like, you know, I, I’ve thought I’ve seen it or I thought I’ve seen it, or, and, and

Speaker 1 (27m 29s): What I thought

Speaker 2 (27m 30s): Completely surprised us that this is actually possible and it’s a, a thing and it’s enjoyable. So yeah, we, we kind of, you know, really sort of, I, I think that really sort of stuck home with us that, you know, we, we’d come up with something new and, and people were just receptive to it as well.

Speaker 1 (27m 54s): The way I’m different, the way I’m different from others in the industry is it’s not only my nature, but it’s my job to be open-minded. And when something comes along, I’m like, Oh, that’s cool. Let’s look into this. As opposed to, Oh, that’ll never work. Yeah. I’ve seen so many people make so much money with those that’ll never works. That, Yeah, not, sorry, I don’t think that way. So who is Chuck the balls?

Speaker 2 (28m 19s): Ah, this is the, the little, Yeah. I forgot to mention he’s the, the little ball character that we, we used in the, the sort of viral campaign. Yeah. We just wanted to sort of, again, as I said, soften the, the approach to this by making this sort of making balls. I, I think, I think people think find balls funny. People don’t find penises funny or vaginas funny or ass is maybe ass is up there with balls, but balls are funny.

Yeah. And when you, when you characterize the balls, and this is what we did with Chuck the balls, or Chuck as he is better known, people really sort of like

Speaker 1 (29m 1s): Char,

Speaker 2 (29m 2s): I don’t wanna say, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna say grabbed hold of it, but I will, they kind of really grabbed hold of that. That’s good. Yeah. So it just felt right that we give balls a face and two arms and a mouth.

Speaker 1 (29m 18s): I, I love it.

Speaker 2 (29m 20s): It was lockdown, it was Bruce, what did, everyone, everyone went a bit crazy,

Speaker 1 (29m 26s): If that’s the truth. That kinda leads me into my next question. What were your experiences trying to launch a product? Obviously you did it successfully, but during Covid

Speaker 2 (29m 37s): It was damn hard. It was really hard, very stressful because all, all the usual processes just had collapsed, number one, finding suppliers. Yeah. Normally you’d go and visit three factories, you know, and, and I’ve never, I’ve never been to China. I’ve, I’ve always just done it through sort of web meetings, email, that sort of stuff. But in this case, we really needed, because it was our product that we were manufacturing rather than buying Chinese products off a Chinese factory, we really wanted to just go and get that.

So couldn’t do that. We thought about making it ourselves, you know, how can we do that here in the UK with all the problems with Brexit and import export and shipping

Speaker 1 (30m 30s): And the expenses.

Speaker 2 (30m 32s): It’s, it, it was just no, just don’t do it at all. So, Sure. We ended up having to go with, with an agent, manufacturing agent who obviously sort of took their slice of the Yeah. And, and it was also quite difficult because we’re, you know, engineers talking through sales people to engineers in the factory and, and the, the messages not getting passed on correctly and us not receiving or us receiving a sort of diluted version of what the engineer in the factory has said back about manufacturing issues.

So plus

Speaker 1 (31m 15s): It was really, plus they’re, plus they’re Chinese, so that didn’t help.

Speaker 2 (31m 18s): Well, you know, I I, to be honest, I, I find working with the Chinese factories, you know, there’s a style isn’t there? And, and you, you, once you know how to communicate with them what Yeah. How they do things and when no means no from them. Right. You know, that’s when it’s all okay. Right. That was sort of missing in this, in this, this conversation. And, and it was, it was very stressful, you know, especially when we had deadlines.

We had all these people who paid money up front through crowd funding campaign, like, Right, where’s my product? Where’s my product? Why haven’t I got my product? Sure. Well it’s, it’s, it’s a pandemic and things are all collapsing around the world. So that’s number one why you’re three months late on getting it. Yeah. But yeah, it was, it was hard. So, so there was that, there was the, we ideally wanted some money. We, we had, we, we wanted to launch a brand, not just a single product. So we had, you know, it’s very clear that we had other products that we wanted to bring to market.

So we were looking for an investor from the outset just before the pandemic. We were having some, you know, positive conversations with a number of parties and, and then they just finished as soon as the pandemic came out because why wouldn’t you just wanna sit there, there and guard your chips with your arms and wait until the storm’s blown over? Yeah. So we had to just, we just had to go ahead with the crowd funding only and, you know, thank god it worked. Yeah. I think, I think the other thing that was the, was the biggest problem for us was shipping.

Shipping just became an, an absolute nightmare. Yeah. In terms of cost and also in terms of delays. So we ended up having to air freight our first shipment to oh Lord,

Speaker 1 (33m 16s): The

Speaker 2 (33m 17s): US which, you know, instead of being pennies per unit was dollars per unit. And you know, we’re talking quite a lot of dollars per unit, so that sort of sucked a lot of profit out of the early sales or, you know, we’re still still paying for that right now because you know, that that stock is still being munched through and it was air freighted that the, the worst point in, in the, the pandemic because if we didn’t do that, we would’ve missed the start of the, you know, the sort of season as it were.

So yeah. That, that was a big problem. And, and I think also having to do virtual trade shows, you know, yourself seeing people face to face, Oh,

Speaker 1 (33m 59s): He’s talked over, I hate virtual shows. I I won’t do ’em anymore.

Speaker 2 (34m 2s): Well, we, I don’t, I don’t think anyone will, to be honest with you. They’re, we’re, we’re, we are free again now, aren’t we? But

Speaker 1 (34m 10s): It was kinda,

Speaker 2 (34m 12s): Well, yes, you’re right. It depends where you lived, doesn’t it? Yeah. I think we’ve forgotten all about it here in the UK now, just get reminded every time we go to other countries when they ask us to fill in forms and wear masks and stuff. So it’s, Yeah. It, it’s, I I think in person events, that’s where you build those trusts, get those business relationships and Oh yeah. You know, it’s, it’s, we spend a lot of money on virtual shows where yeah,

Speaker 1 (34m 42s): You can’t, you can’t simulate that. You just can’t simulate that. No, doesn’t, doesn’t work.

Speaker 2 (34m 47s): You can’t cut the deals as well. You know, it’s, it’s, you gotta have that beer with somebody afterwards or that, you know, that little chat. That’s what cements in the deal.

Speaker 1 (34m 59s): Sure. So talk about the market reception of the bald.

Speaker 2 (35m 4s): Yeah, I, I think I sort of touched on it before we, we sort of turned all the expectations around in making it a mainstream product. It’s been picked up by the mainstream sort of press as well. So, you know, we’ve had appearances in Cosmopolitan, Wired magazine and, you know, foreign language media as well, quite a bit of stuff sort of coming through in Germany now. And it’s, it’s all mainstream stuff because it was, it was, it’s so newsworthy.

It’s like, did you know, know that you can use your balls for penetration and Yeah. It’s not a kinky thing. It’s, it’s just something you can actually do. So why not? Why not try it? Exactly. So we, yeah, we just got that sort of reception and that word of mouth sort of passing on, you know, guys and girls in the bar going, Hey, did you hear about the bordo? You know, it’s, it’s that type of rollout that we’re, we’re experiencing. Sure.

Very much the opposite of the, the niche that was predicted.

Speaker 1 (36m 11s): Exactly. Thank you, Chuck. So tell me about your international customer base.

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): Yeah, I mean it’s, it’s a little bit tricky. We we’re basically a US company. Americans love balls. Americans find balls, funny. Americans love trying new sex toys. That’s our experience. So our, our customer base is 92% usa. Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (36m 41s): That’s a lot of potential internationally.

Speaker 2 (36m 44s): Yeah. Yeah. So, so internationally, you know, we, we think the sort of, the other markets are only just starting to wake up, you know, we’ve just, Germany we assume would be, you know, right up there with, with the us but

Speaker 1 (37m 0s): Japan,

Speaker 2 (37m 2s): Japan will, will, will come to later, but yeah, there’s a bit of a complexity there. Well, so

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): Let’s talk about, let’s talk about that. What, what markets have been been a struggle so far, and why do you think so?

Speaker 2 (37m 14s): Yeah, Japan has been one. Yes. I, and I think, I think it’s a one of anatomy basically. And maybe there’s, you know, we’ve, we’ve had that kind of feedback from a couple of potential distributors there where, you know, they’ve said, Look, look, we just not sure whether this is gonna work for Japanese guys and girls.

Speaker 1 (37m 40s): They, they’re known, they, the Japanese guys are supposed to be the smallest in the world.

Speaker 2 (37m 45s): Yeah. Well, I dunno about balls. There’s not enough ball data out out there.

Speaker 1 (37m 50s): No, I just know about, I just know about penises. I guess we have to take a survey of balls, but you gotta kind of figure one will one will kind of follow the other.

Speaker 2 (37m 60s): Yeah, I’d, I’d assume so. And, and also I think if that’s the case, then the, the partner is not likely to be expecting anything as big as the bdo, which is two inches in diameters. So Yeah. You know, maybe that’s why maybe

Speaker 1 (38m 15s): You don’t wanna stretch those poor Asian girls out.

Speaker 2 (38m 18s): Oh no. Yeah. Well, we won’t go into the noises they make off the videos, but my girlfriend does a good impression.

Speaker 1 (38m 27s): Oh, I like that. We should have had her on.

Speaker 2 (38m 31s): That’s

Speaker 1 (38m 32s): Pretty much it.

Speaker 2 (38m 35s): Yeah. But I, I, it’s so annoying because I really, really wanted a Japanese market to take it up because I, I see the Japanese, I’ve spent a lot of time hanging out with Japanese people. I love them. I think they’ve got the same sense of humor that, you know, we do in the UK and in the US as well. And it, it’s that kind of comedic thing with a cartoon character as well, just kind of, it it should, it should fly there, Bruce, I think. And, and I think maybe it’s just a comms thing, which we need to sort of, you know, invest a little more money into further down the track.

Speaker 1 (39m 11s): Maybe you should do a Japanese version of Chuck, Chuck son.

Speaker 2 (39m 16s): Yes. Chuck son with his, Yes. His his little on, Yeah. And his kimona

Speaker 1 (39m 24s): Eating sushi. Oh man, I think we got a script. The

Speaker 2 (39m 28s): Stereotypes everywhere aren’t

Speaker 1 (39m 32s): Terrible.

Speaker 2 (39m 32s): Yeah. Well, yeah, so Japan, I think other markets that, that have been a struggle, Israel’s been a real problem too. We’ve had a lot of interest. I know, Well we had a lot of interest from, from Israeli customers through the crowdfunding campaign, and we had a big problem with shipping to them. And I think it’s the, the, the alphabet issue. It just, things are just getting completely lost and trying to find them.

Yeah. Just absolute failure and the cost of upgrading that shipping to Israeli customers to, you know, FedEx, DHL was just like triple the value of the product in some cases. So, you know, maybe, well the logical thing to do was get an Israeli distributor and we, we explored two or three, didn’t really get anywhere with them. And you know, I, I find that a bit annoying because there was definitely quite a strong appetite from the Israeli market.

You know, we’ve got a good, good signal from them. I, I would say confidently they’re in the top, the top five nationalities who were initially looking up wanting to buy the product. So interesting. Again, we need to do some more work there and you know, it’s just time and getting it right. I think.

Speaker 1 (41m 0s): So what’s your impression so far of the adult market?

Speaker 2 (41m 4s): I love it. It’s number one. I really like the people. We went to the Xbi retreat in Miami. That’s our first actual face to face show, even though it’s not a true sort of, you know, d to C show. It’s a B2B retreat, but everyone’s really nice, very helpful. Kind of like a small, small community, but a but a strong community and yeah, I, I’ve had a ton of advice of some great people and I’m, I’m very thankful for that.

Speaker 1 (41m 39s): Sure, sure. Now how do you see, we talked a little bit about this earlier. How do you see the market for ball related products growing?

Speaker 2 (41m 50s): You’re asking, I think you, maybe you might need an independent on that, but from, from my angle?

Speaker 1 (41m 58s): Oh, you mean you’re, you’re slightly prejudiced. Is that what you’re

Speaker 2 (42m 0s): Trying to say? I might be a little, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Maybe a tad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42m 3s): But one thing I am really pushing for in industry is to have the category of balls ball related products. Because if you look on any eCommerce store, you try and find something for balls, it’s under coing.

Speaker 1 (42m 21s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42m 22s): It’s not a coching, it’s for balls. You know, it’s, you know, there’s, there’s specific products for balls, not, not just the BDO or, or any of the BDOs brothers and sisters when they come online. There’s a whole ton of products out there that are ball specific. Right. So why isn’t there that balls category on an e-commerce, Why is maybe,

Speaker 1 (42m 42s): Maybe BDO will change then?

Speaker 2 (42m 44s): Well, I’m, I’m, I, I think I’ve already got a couple of e-commerce sites to create a balls category and dropped in a whole bunch of other complimentary products or well say complementary, I mean other ball products in there. Right. You know, lubes, ball stretches, you know, that type of thing. And the, the feedback we’ve had is that it’s working, you know, they’re getting good sort of sales through by by doing that. So I would say, I would say in three to five, I your, all of your e-commerce will have a, a ball section

Speaker 1 (43m 21s): That’ll certainly help.

Speaker 2 (43m 23s): Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, and people, a lot of the feedback we’ve had from, you know, I was talking earlier about this sort of industry veterans saying, Look, I’ve thought I’d seen it all, you know, well this whole new sort of, we’ve unlocked the door to balls as a main, as something that needs to be recognized as a, as a thing of that can be stimulated as a thing that can often make up for poor performance or medical issues.


Speaker 1 (43m 53s): Talk, talk a little bit about that. Would you please, Jerry? Yeah, sure. Because, because that is a real appeal for, for men who have have erectile dysfunction, right?

Speaker 2 (44m 4s): Yeah. Yeah. I mean I’m, I’ll just sort of flag here straight away that I’m, I’m not a medical profession, so I, I can’t, I can’t sort of categorically say it’s great for Ed, but what I do know is, you know, and, and bizarrely enough, I actually had Ed for about six months during covid when I got a prostatitis infection, which really knock seven shades of shit out of me. I, I couldn’t get it up. I could, I could only get like half, half a wreck at the, at best.

I just didn’t have that feeling there that, you know, you have when you get that, you know when you want to go. Yeah. And having, using the bdo, I was still able to sort of pleasure my partner with a, a good girth. I could get the sensation of the stimulation of the, the sort of nerve endings in my balls probably made my cock about as a wrecked as I could get it at the time. It’s kind of like having your, your, your baller.

It, it’s, it’s a key trigger. It’s, it’s a key trigger to sort of maximize the potential. And I think for, for, for guys that suffer from Ed or, you know, my experience, you, I think you spend about two or three months going, Ah, yeah, it’ll come back soon. It’ll come back soon. It’ll come back soon. And then it doesn’t.

Speaker 1 (45m 25s): Wishful thinking, Sure.

Speaker 2 (45m 27s): Oh my god, you know what’s, and then the embarrassment starts setting in and the self sort of criticisms and, and you know Sure. The depression sets in about it and the desperation. Yeah. And I think with, with having something like the BDO and still being able to make your wife come or your partner come give them good girth, have, have that sensation, that stimulation and not feel like you’re tying a strap on around and fucking your partner with your stomach, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s down there.

It’s where it’s meant to be. And

Speaker 1 (46m 6s): By the way, what about, what about the gay market? Have you considered that?

Speaker 2 (46m 11s): Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, that was, that was another sort of thing that we assumed would be the number one source of interest and customer. I think that’s still yet to happen. I think we haven’t really sort of reached the sort of penetration, so to speak, so to speak. I’m, I’m immune to these innuendos now. Bruce

Speaker 1 (46m 36s): Can’t imagine

Speaker 2 (46m 37s): Should be too

Speaker 1 (46m 38s): Outta meetings. They just go, Oh, they just roll right off my tongue too, Jerry, all day, all night

Speaker 2 (46m 45s): To the wall, all of that stuff. Yeah. So I, I think, I think half of it is gay is very much, they will have tried an awful lot of this stuff before by, with whatever means they can, you know, whether it’s coch rings or tying a pair of underwear around the top or, you know, leathers sort of support. It’s, it’s largely been sort of already done, but I think they’re then I, I don’t think that market has woken up to it yet.

Sure. And you know that I know a lot of gay people and you know, my one good friend, he’s like, Look, we are the dirtiest bastards in the world. We will try anything. We, we, we we want to go. They will talk about the new thing. And that is how I get my cool points in, in the group. You know, again, I’m sort of surprised. I think it’s a marketing thing. I think we just need to sort of uplift our game a bit in that sector.

Speaker 1 (47m 51s): Maybe you need a, maybe you need a gay chuck.

Speaker 2 (47m 54s): Yeah, could too. Yeah, that would be interesting.

Speaker 1 (47m 58s): Okay. Or Chuck’s brother. Chuck’s brother.

Speaker 2 (47m 60s): Yeah. Chuck’s gay half Billy.

Speaker 1 (48m 2s): Billy Balls.

Speaker 2 (48m 3s): Yeah, Billy Balls. So I’ll, I’ll think of it. It’ll

Speaker 1 (48m 6s): Probably, I won’t charge you for that. I won’t, I won’t charge, I won’t charge you for the mark. My marketing genius. So what are your, He laughs So what are your plans for the progression of the NAS brand and the bdo and what new products are you gonna be launching

Speaker 2 (48m 22s): Soon? First things first, BDO is, you know, version one of Right. The board out. So, you know, we’ve had our sort of initial, and that’s, that’s another thing that was really hard in lockdown was getting testing groups, getting people together, finding sort of testers being, and again, being able to make the samples to send to them and get the materials, blah, blah, blah. It was, it was tough. Yeah. So, you know, we, we’ve, we’ve now had over, I don’t know, maybe 9,000 people officially test it for us by buying the product.

You’ve got a lot of feedback from, from those groups. We had some sort of, again, I was talking earlier about the size of boss and how guys just don’t know what, what size their balls are. And you’ve got guys who’ve got absolutely gigantic balls who just think they, they don’t think about it. They’re just like, I’ve got balls. That’s it. You know, it’s maybe only a partner that ever sees them. And what if that partner’s never seen another man? What if they don’t really watch porn that much?

You know, you just don’t know how, how big or small you are. So we had some sort of feedback with guys with big nuts that, you know, it was, it was a little hard to get on with them, for them. So what we’re looking at is a, a product where you kind of, you know, separate the upper ring so that you can, you don’t have stretch it over your balls. Cool. We’ve got some sort of more design coming into the, the, the, the tip a little more on the tickling sort of front for, you know, the ladies.

And we’ve got a, a vibe that’s in, in the pipeline as well. So that’s basically a vibrating version. We’ve had a lot of requests be

Speaker 1 (50m 13s): Popular.

Speaker 2 (50m 13s): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that, that one’s sort of nearing design completion. And then we got a whole bunch of other, other products. So BDOs sort of really the one that Bordo was the one we sort of knew would probably get the most news and that’s why we launched it first. Right. But we’ve got another two or three products that are equally as sort of out there and different and good as the bdo, which, which we need to bring to market as well.

Great. So again, it’s all time, money, team resources, all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 (50m 50s): Absolutely. Well Jerry, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (50m 59s): Thank you very much, Bruce. It was, it was good fun. Thanks.

Speaker 1 (51m 2s): My pleasure. My broker tip today is part one on how to buy a website. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a Tube site, a cam site, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site, or something else? If you wanna buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and what niche There are literally hundreds of niches and many sub niches. For instance, let’s say you wanna buy a gay site under gay, there’s bears are mature, bareback Asian, Latino, amateur, bi black, euro and fetish, along with many sub fetishes plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks and uniforms straight has even more subes.

I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I wanna buy a site or I wanna buy a pay site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like men and wanna make money on a straight site, that’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing if you’re straight and wanna buy a gay site. So what you like plays a part. What’s your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning.

Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a Cam site with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re gonna need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established and successful site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re gonna need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for.

We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Karl Edwards of Stiff Media. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Jerry Davies of Balldo. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with SafferMaster and Lady Petra of Slubb USA.

Speaker 0 (33s): Adult

Speaker 1 (34s): Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker three point0@adultsitebroker.com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog. Speaking of ASB Cash, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts. Now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker, you’re gonna receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.

You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program, four, an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB cash.com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale at Tube site that has full length BDSM videos for free. The site is built on WordPress and is three years old.

They are currently the only free tube providing premium BDSM videos. They regularly add user request and user provided content after moderation. The owner started the site out of frustration because there was nothing else out there like it, and he wanted to visit such a site. It soon became popular On Reddit and Business Sword, the owner is decided to move on to other ventures outside the adult industry. The site’s visitors come back again and again due to its uniqueness.

They have over 13,000 premium videos and most of them are 30 minutes or longer. With more videos and categories, the site can do even better. Most of the traffic is from tier one countries. There’s no advertising being done for the site. All the traffic is either type in or from seo. This is a great opportunity for someone with existing traffic only 269,000 US dollars. Now time for this week’s interview. My guests today on Adult Site Broker talk are Saffer Master and Lady Petra from Slub usa.

Hey you guys, thanks for being with us today on Adult Side Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 47s): It’s our pleasure. Thank you for having

Speaker 1 (2m 49s): Us. Oh, you said that in unison. I like that. Now, Saffer Master and Lady Petra are a lifestyle dominant submissive couple and a twenty four seven, what they call a tpe Total power exchange. I learned that’s what that is. Now. Both Lady Petra and SRA master are lifetime coaches and they offer kink relationship dynamics coaching through their website. Lady petra playground.com. That’s a mouthful. Lady Petra and SRA master are the North American distributors of the new German sex toy sl.

That’s S L U B B from Germany, SL usa. Slub usa.com is the North American distributor of the German company SL store. This is the first real mail masturbator power tool invented by Michael Strobel and patented in eight countries. Slub has been available since 2020. So let’s start out with the basics. How did the two of you meet?

Speaker 2 (3m 49s): So we met through Fe life. I posted a seeking post. I had taken a pretty deep dive into kink and figured out who I was as aster, and I got present to that. I’m a dominant sadist and what I wanted in my life was a submissive masochist, and I was attracted to a lifestyle of kink rather than a intermittent play style of kink. And so I put

Speaker 1 (4m 18s): What would, what would the difference of that would be, by the way?

Speaker 2 (4m 21s): Yeah, that’s a great question. So very often gangsters get together for play sessions and they take on roles. We call it role play. Right? And, and they take on a role of this or that and they, they have a scene and maybe they together for a weekend or maybe an afternoon or an evening and and outside of their kink play, they’re just back at their normal lives. Yeah. And what, what we are is a 24 7 couple. So we literally live together in a dynamic.

Our dynamic is sex forward and kink forward. And it’s always on. It’s never off. And so, you know, we sing practically every day. We do high protocol scenes every week. We have a lifestyle of protocols and and dynamics that are just always on.

Speaker 1 (5m 9s): Now. Now when you say, when you say scenes, I don’t think you’re talking about scene in the porn sense, right?

Speaker 3 (5m 16s): I some people may say it’s porn.

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): People watched us, they would say, You should make a movie. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (5m 21s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (5m 22s): Yep. Yeah. When we see, we basically are engaged in kinky sex that may last anywhere from one to four hours. Hmm. And, and that’s a scene. And in that time we engage in various fetishes that we enjoy.

Speaker 1 (5m 36s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (5m 37s): And,

Speaker 3 (5m 38s): And then high protocol, the difference in that is it’s more protocol driven. So there’s a more of a pattern and a goal of, I’m Saffer Master’s property as his collared slu. And so therefore, one of the goals of the high protocol scene is to end the scene with me being marked with a cane.

Speaker 1 (5m 59s): Okay. And and by 24 7, that means any day time, huh?

Speaker 2 (6m 6s): Correct. All

Speaker 3 (6m 7s): The time.

Speaker 2 (6m 7s): Yeah. It’s always on.

Speaker 1 (6m 8s): Sounds like fun.

Speaker 2 (6m 11s): I’ll give you an example. I’ll give you an example. So right now she’s training as, you know, getting herself in shape running. And so every day she gets a, every day she earns a pr a personal record. She gets click attention. So she gets to come home and I work on her cl for as long as I like.

Speaker 1 (6m 28s): I see. It’s

Speaker 2 (6m 30s): A reward.

Speaker 3 (6m 30s): It’s a huge reward. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (6m 33s): It is. So, I’m sorry I cuz I had layman’s questions about the lifestyle, which is, which is fascinating. Finish your story, please.

Speaker 2 (6m 43s): Yeah. So anyway, I created the Seeking Post, laying out exactly what I was looking for, and she responded to it and we, she reached out to me and we chatted for several months and we met a couple months later. And then we stayed in communication for a few more months before she put herself forward to be claimed into the lifestyle. And after that, soon after that, we moved in together. And about a year later after her divorce was final, we got, she, she, she accepted my call.

So I collared her.

Speaker 1 (7m 17s): In other words, you got married

Speaker 2 (7m 19s): In, in a kink, kinda in a kink sense,

Speaker 3 (7m 21s): But

Speaker 1 (7m 21s): Fell. Oh, ok. Not in a, not in a legal sense. Got it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (7m 25s): No, it’s not legal. But you know, it’s a very deep relationship that has way more,

Speaker 3 (7m 32s): We both been married, so it has way more weight than either of us felt our marriages did.

Speaker 2 (7m 37s): Yeah. There’s a lot more, there’s a lot more emotional energy involved in the relationship because sounds like we literally are having like kinky sex every day. So we’re really engaged in a, in a way that, that we weren’t when we were married.

Speaker 1 (7m 50s): Now it’s interesting, you, you, you talked about chatting for months before you got together in this type of lifestyle. Do you find that people are a little more cautious to meet someone so they need to really get to know them online first?

Speaker 2 (8m 5s): No, I don’t.

Speaker 3 (8m 5s): Cause I think few people do what we do.

Speaker 2 (8m 7s): Yeah. A lot of people in the kink universe go to what are called mus. They meet people at Munch’s or they might go to a club or a dun what

Speaker 1 (8m 15s): You said, a muncher,

Speaker 2 (8m 16s): A munch. Yeah. Like a, it’s normally, it’s a, something that’s offered perhaps at a restaurant where they get together not in kink fetish gear, but just as people and they have a meal and they chat about kink. So they, they beat each other and

Speaker 1 (8m 30s): Like to be at, I’d like to be at the next table.

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): Sure.

Speaker 3 (8m 33s): Exactly. Exactly. And it allows them to start building community around what they’re seeking.

Speaker 2 (8m 39s): Yeah. And then, you know, in a more direct way, they might go to dungeons and people play together in Dungeons. They do what’s in, what in the kink world is called pickup play. Yeah. So, so you might meet somebody in Dungeon and think, Oh, I’d like to spank her. And then you might go ask her, Hey, would you like a spanking? And she might go, Well, yes I would. And then you, then you play, you see, and you make, you make agreements around what the scene’s gonna involve. Got it. And, and then you have the scene. And, and in a dungeon they normally are dungeon monitors, you know, people monitoring to make sure that there isn’t abuse occurring because all of kink involves consent.

Right. And so, you know, it’s a, it’s just a way of engaging with an adult community in an adult play, play way. We talk about how when we’re young people, you know, kids have playtime at school and when you grow up you don’t have playtime as adults. Well what king is, it’s really just playtime for adults with adult games.

Speaker 1 (9m 41s): Yeah, yeah. Adult toys. Definitely. Yeah. De by the way, it doesn’t exist anymore, but did you ever make it to San Francisco? San Francisco? I can, I can pronounce my hometown name to the kink castle.

Speaker 3 (9m 57s): I did not go to the kink castle, but when they had, what was the big event? Because finish ball the Yeah. The exotic erotic ball that was hosted there every year for like 20, 30 years. Sure. I actually got to go to the last one. Oh, okay. And got to get Yeah. The Cow Palace and get to have that whole experience of being immersed in that.

Speaker 1 (10m 20s): Well you should have seen the setup at the kink castle. It was quite amazing. I’m sure you’ve seen pictures. They had a, a event, which why not used to put on and kink would host the closing party every year. And I went three times, I think maybe it was only twice. And it was just an incredible place taking the tour. It was like, wow. I don’t know what I’m like, I don’t know what goes on here, but it must be very interesting.

It is. So how long have you two been together?

Speaker 2 (10m 56s): When? Just coming up on four years.

Speaker 1 (10m 58s): Oh, nice. Very, very nice. I understand you have a podcast. Tell me more about it if you would.

Speaker 2 (11m 6s): Great. Okay. So we do a podcast called The Kinky Cocktail Hour. And what it is, is we normally share a new, typically a new cocktail, Lady Petras a Somalia. So she makes a new cocktail. Wow. And then, and then we have a conversation either with each other or with a ster that we’re interviewing about some aspect of human sexuality. And our purpose is to really demystify sexuality, demystify kink. And yeah. The purpose of the podcast is to really enhance and expand our journey.

We started the podcast because we were having a, you know, hot sex scene every day and then having a cocktail afterwards to recover while we debriefed. Yeah. And in those debriefing conversations we were like really getting into each other’s hands. We were having a conversation about sex, about relationship, about kink, about agreements, about dynamics. You know, we were just really having these incredibly thoughtful, considered conversations about human dynamics and we thought, you know, we should just record this.

This is really good stuff. Yeah. And so we started to do that. We put an iPhone between us actually, and we started recording the conversations and then one day we were like, you know, we ordered just podcast this

Speaker 3 (12m 20s): Because someone else might be in the same position we were in. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (12m 23s): Sure. And, and so we, we started to do that and that’s how we came up with the Kinky Cocktail Hour. And we started right at the beginning of Covid. It wasn’t because of Covid, it was just coincidental. And because of that we podcast every day. And so Wow. We literally, we literally in three years have generated about 600 episodes.

Speaker 1 (12m 42s): That’s amazing. And

Speaker 2 (12m 43s): Yeah, it really is. We’ve had incredible conversations with incredible people all over the world. We’ve created community amongst gangsters. This, this whole conversation we’re having today about the SL came out of a conversation we had on the, on the Kinky cocktail hour with Mistress Diana Von Rig, who’s a Birmingham Ballbuster. And she shared

Speaker 1 (13m 2s): I that Birmingham Ballbuster. Wow. That’s three Bs.

Speaker 3 (13m 6s): It’s great. Yeah. She

Speaker 2 (13m 7s): Awesome. Yeah. She introduced us to it and that led us to a conversation with the Stroble brothers. And that led to us getting the opportunity to have slab as a distribution product in the, in the in North America.

Speaker 1 (13m 18s): What are you trying to accomplish with the podcast?

Speaker 2 (13m 22s): That’s a great question. You know, we really are,

Speaker 1 (13m 25s): I know I asked it.

Speaker 2 (13m 26s): Yeah,

Speaker 3 (13m 27s): Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13m 28s): No, we really are committed demystifying sexuality and demystifying, but that’s our entire agenda, you know, So like for example, yesterday we talked to a trans trans woman who’s going through sexual reassignment

Speaker 3 (13m 45s): Yeah. Still waiting for

Speaker 2 (13m 46s): Procedures. Yeah. You know? Right. And, and we had a conversation with her about her experience as a sexual creature. And, you know, we’re not trans and we’re not interested in being trans, but we’ve had conversations with people who are in the trans journey enough that when we talk to other trans folk, they’re very, very receptive because they get like, we’re not judging, we’re just sharing. Right. And, and we’re demystifying a part of the, the world for the trans community just in that aspect. Right.

It’s not, it’s not an agenda. We’re just there.

Speaker 3 (14m 19s): Well and one of the things that comes to mind too is as kings going from vanilla ex marriages and the stigma when you actually go out 24 7 as tpe couple people, judge right and left that you’re a gangster because obviously I have a caller, you know, I always have to do the joke cuz my caller actually has a double ring on it. So sometimes I’ll be in public and forget my hard collars on cuz it’s my life. Right.

And I’ll Sure

Speaker 1 (14m 50s): That gets some interesting looks.

Speaker 3 (14m 52s): Oh, I do. Yes. And sometimes I’ll spin it around just for the sake of not having to explain myself 5,000 times Sure. And say, Oh, I’m scaring the natives. I need to like turn it around. And the idea is, that’s a simple thing. But even with, you talk about extended family, we, we really as gangsters are struggling with the same things as any alternative sexual orientation, like dating or trans, that family will often ostracize or friends. But, you know, people don’t wanna know what you’re up to.

What. But let’s be honest, I don’t really wanna know what other people are up to in their bedrooms either. The idea is I’m just living myself, my life as a sexual creature. Free and authentic. Yes. But the reason that pot is so health is we put it out there in people’s faces and say, this is just what it is. We’re not weirdos. Right. We are in a loving dynamic, but we like kinky things. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1 (15m 46s): No, not at all. One thing you learn in this industry, in the adult entertainment industry is not to judge. And I’ve had such a variety of guests on adult site broker talk, and lately I’ve had more from the kink community. And I find it fascinating. And one thing I learned very early on, whether it be gay, whether it be trans, whether it be kink, don’t judge, just learn about it and you’ll better understand other people.

Speaker 2 (16m 18s): No, it’s true. There’s no right way to be. No. And there’s

Speaker 1 (16m 22s): No normal, there’s there’s no thing as normal. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (16m 24s): And what you find sexually arousing somebody else might not. And who cares what you find sexually arousing. If it doesn’t arou me, why should I care what you aroused by? It makes no sense. Right. So yeah. So there’s no, there’s no judgment. And, and that’s the, the beauty of the podcast is we really get to talk to the widest range of people that I’ve ever had the opportunity to talk to in my life. So we’ve talked to public figures, we’ve talked to Kingstons all over the world. Australia, England, Germany, France. We’ve talked to pro Ds, we’ve talked to sex workers, we’ve talked to advocates, we’ve talked to political activists, we’ve talked to

Speaker 3 (17m 2s): Media influencers,

Speaker 2 (17m 3s): Media influencers, physicians, you know, we’ve, we’ve had a at all in the world of sexuality. Right. All of it’s a conversation about human sexuality. Humans are, are particularly hung up on about two things or how hung up on sex and they hung up on money. So this isn’t a conversation about money, but it’s a conversation about sex. Right. And, you know, people have a purulent interest in sex, so they listen. Yeah. Cause we talk about sexy things. We talk about getting ass fucked and you know, anal April or we talked about, or pussy or whatever.

And, and they listen because, you know, they have imperial and interest. But also, Yeah. We hear from people who say, you know, you’ve really helped me. You’ve really helped me distill some aspect of my life or distinguish something that I was thinking about, or Yeah, you’re giving me courage or I really empathize with your story or, you know, we just, we get like literally thousands of messages from people who listen, who, who are, And we haven’t had one negative comment about the podcast. Not

Speaker 1 (18m 2s): One. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah. You mentioned guests. Who’s your favorite so far? Ooh,

Speaker 2 (18m 8s): That’s a great question. You know, we, like everyone we talk to is a favorite guest. We’ve talked to some really interesting people. Like, for example, one of my favorite guests is a public figure that we talk to a guy named Dan Savage who has a long political activist career. He’s

Speaker 1 (18m 23s): A man, I’ve seen him on Bill Mar numerous times. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (18m 26s): Exactly.

Speaker 3 (18m 27s): Love

Speaker 1 (18m 28s): Him.

Speaker 2 (18m 28s): Yeah, exactly. He was one of my favorite guests because I’ve, I bet looked up to him. I’ve valued his political point of view. I’ve supported him. And to actually talked to him and have him share his life with us was such a, And he lives up here and he lives here. It was such a wonderful experience.

Speaker 1 (18m 43s): Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18m 44s): To have a, a conversation with somebody of that magnitude.

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Huge.

Speaker 2 (18m 49s): He was one of my favorites.

Speaker 3 (18m 50s): And then, you know, there’s been a plethora of others, but one person that comes to mind for us, I think because we’re in a different phase of our life also, but this, this ster on fe life called decks. He’s been in the kink world for over 30 years as a leatherman, but, and has explored extensively the whips. Like he’s world renowned for his books that he’s written on single tail whipping and, and the procedures. And he has YouTube videos and, and one of the things that’s great about it is he’ll offer the information and training to anyone.

And he has, he’s very thorough and he worries about safety and he makes sure everyone is consensual. Right. But then on the same token, we happened on one of our podcasts to say something to him about, well, whatever your other fetishes. And he brought up wax and then he just lit up the microphone on wax. Like, I never knew wax could be this interesting. But he’s talking about his commitment to wax play in the sense of 40 pounds of wax being melted at certain temperature and all these things he does.

And where I, what I took from that was, yes, wax is interesting to me personally, it’s kind of messy, so you gotta have the space for it, la la But what I’m hearing him say is his complete authentic expression and, and just love for that. And it came through and just exuded to the microphone. And I was like, Sure. How can you not listen to this? This is amazing. Even if I don’t like why. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): It’s amazing. Anyone, anyone who’s passionate about something is a great guest.

Speaker 2 (20m 28s): Well, his passion is amazing. He’s passionate about sounding, he’s passionate about bust, which is foot whipping. He’s passionate about sensory play, he’s passionate about single tales, the leather, the leather community. He is passionate about single tales, he’s passionate about food play. So he’s got a lot of like kink passion and it, it comes through the microphone in a really beautiful way. And he shares so authentically. And

Speaker 3 (20m 53s): He, and he’s an elder where we, we found that when we interviewed some prominent people from the gay community, basically who were podcasters also and friends of ours. One of the complaints they were saying based on what happened during the AIDS epidemic was we lost this generation of elders.

Speaker 1 (21m 11s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21m 12s): Yeah. And then we have this,

Speaker 1 (21m 13s): I’m from San Francisco, I’m from San Francisco originally, so I live and I’m 60, 64, so I lived it. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (21m 20s): You absolutely. Yeah. And so there’s this gap stop and now we’ve got this new generation who may or may not appreciate where the, where everything’s, how we got here today basically. Sure. And it’s the same with kink. We feel there’s these elders that have this plethora of information, this, these gifts that, you know, we’ve gotta catch it while we can because they won’t be with us forever.

Speaker 1 (21m 45s): Yep. I agree. So how did you learn about SL in the first place?

Speaker 2 (21m 50s): Right. As I mentioned, we were talking to Mr. Diana, Diana van rig about ball busting. And she, she was like really telling us all about her ball busting. And she’s quite a vicious lady. And I asked her, Well, do you do anything that relates to pleasure? It was, is it all just pain? And she said, No, no, no, I do pleasure, but not the way you think of it. I use this tool called the Slur. It’s very intense. I don’t let them off the hook. And I didn’t quite understand it, so I asked her to talk more about it. And she shared that it’s this really powerful toy.

It’s got a, a strap that goes around your cock and it vibrates it really high intensity and it’s got six levels and she’s only ever been able to take only one person up to level four. Most people have an orgasm before level two. And she said, even it even makes flacid men come. I was quite, Yeah, I was quite surprised by that. But anyway, so that led us to a conversation about SL with the German manufacturers. Now they don’t speak English, so this was all happening through Google Translate.

Speaker 1 (22m 54s): Oh geez. Yeah. Good luck. And

Speaker 2 (22m 57s): Yeah, and they said, you know, actually what I wanted to do was have them on the podcast. Right. And they were like, Well, we can’t come on the podcast, but we don’t have an American distributor. Would you help us with that? And I was like, Oh,

Speaker 1 (23m 9s): Hello,

Speaker 2 (23m 10s): Hello. Yeah. You know, and so I thought about it and I was like, Well, what do we have? You have a country of, you know, 330 million people and it turns out that 70% of men at age 70 have a reptile dysfunction. So there’s an opportunity here.

Speaker 1 (23m 25s): Oh geez. Oh geez. Something to look forward to in six years. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 2 (23m 30s): Right. So yeah, so that just got us interested. So we started having a conversation with him and one thing led to another and we arranged an agreement to be their distributors and that’s how it happened.

Speaker 1 (23m 41s): So tell me what’s happened since that point.

Speaker 2 (23m 44s): Okay, well,

Speaker 3 (23m 46s): Well you should really, I think it’s important to share the original story of how Michael came upon this, the origin. That’s what makes it important.

Speaker 2 (23m 55s): Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I’ll tell you the origin story. So great. Michael and his brother Sandra are master roofers in Germany. And so there’re contractors, essentially,

Speaker 1 (24m 5s): They’re roofers. They, they, they do roofs, they

Speaker 2 (24m 8s): Do roofs, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 (24m 9s): Okie do.

Speaker 2 (24m 11s): And they were fucking around with power tools holding them up to their decks. And he was like, Well, this is

Speaker 1 (24m 16s): Kind what could possibly go. I

Speaker 3 (24m 19s): Mean, just feeling the vibration and things like that, you know,

Speaker 1 (24m 22s): I was, I was just, I was just kind of imagining

Speaker 3 (24m 26s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (24m 26s): We were too. People saw or something, you know.

Speaker 2 (24m 29s): Well actually what he did was he was like, Well this is kind of a cool vibration. I like the way it feels. So he went down into his workshop and he attached a piece of re that he had to a reciprocating saw and scared.

Speaker 3 (24m 46s): I know,

Speaker 2 (24m 46s): I know. He brought that to his cock and he wasn’t sure how it was gonna feel and he was, or

Speaker 3 (24m 51s): What would

Speaker 2 (24m 51s): Happen Oh, what would happen. But he was surprised. It actually gave him an orgasm and it was quite gentle. And so he was like, Huh, I’m gonna fig fiddle around with this. So he spent the next three years playing with materials and higher design Yeah. Designs and, and hiring a, a product specialist and Sure. You know, sourcing materials and, and eventually manufacturing this thing, getting a bank loan and all of that. And then, and then he realized like, you need to do, do some research to find the right power tool because you can, with something like this, and considering where you’re putting it, you want something that’s not too powerful.

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): Ah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (25m 29s): You don’t wanna just go down to Home Depot.

Speaker 2 (25m 31s): Yeah. You don’t wanna go

Speaker 1 (25m 32s): To Home Depot. It sounds like, it sounds like it was only a few inches away from being a UN and a Darwin all at once.

Speaker 2 (25m 38s): Yeah, I’m not even sure. A few inches. But anyway.

Speaker 1 (25m 41s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 42s): So, so you spent the next three years like sourcing the machine, sourcing the materials, getting it manufactured and so on. And what he came up with is a tool called a multi tool, which is a originally designed to like be a, so like sander or something. But he found one that was, you know, a 12 vol version. And we, we worked out an agreement with the factory and now we have a tool that it, So the tool itself is really incredibly powerful.

It really, like if, if you think of it like this Bruce, like the Hitachi tops out at around 6,000 RPMs.

Speaker 1 (26m 19s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (26m 20s): So this has six levels, and they’re not click over levels. It’s like a rta. So you can just roll ’em up from one to six. It goes up to 18,000 RPMs from five. So it starts about as high as a Hitachi begins or ends. So Hitachi stops at six, the starts at five, and it goes up to 18, 18,000 RPMs. Damn. And, and the truth is, the truth is that you don’t need to go to 18,000 RPMs because you have such an amazing experience. You know, what attracted us to the machine is that men don’t have the history of vibrational sexual stimulation.

They just don’t using

Speaker 3 (26m 59s): A woman’s sex toy.

Speaker 2 (27m 0s): Yeah. I mean you can hold, you can hold a Hitachi against your cop. It’s not the same thing as having a 360 up and down experience. This tool offers a, a superior vibrational experience for men compared to anything they’ve ever done. Yeah. And what’s interesting about it is that there are two sets of nerves in the penis. You have the nerve that is responsible for erection, and then you have the nerve that’s responsible for ejaculation. Okay. And the ejaculation nerve lives near the head of your penis called the gland.

And the erection nerves live near the base of your penis. And with this vibrational tool, you can actually stimulate both. You can go up and down and rest here and go up there and rest there and go up and down. And it causes the erection to be really profound. Like you have intense, you have a very engorged penis as a result of it. Sure. Which brings, which brings your ejaculation nerves right to the surface. And you know, very often men are coming like in 60 seconds.

It’s really impressive. And more importantly, more importantly, men who can’t get an erection are coming because it’s a powerful tool that can actually access the nerves that live near the glance. Yeah. Even if you don’t have an erection, which ordinarily is required to bring the nerves to the surface. Sure. So when you consider that 40% of men at age 40 have erectile dysfunction and 50 at age 50 and 70 at age 70 and so on,

Speaker 1 (28m 32s): Guess I’m lucky.

Speaker 2 (28m 34s): Yeah. There’s an opportunity, there’s an opportunity to actually make a difference in men’s sex lives. And more importantly Yes. There’s a particular disorder in erectile dysfunction called ejaculation disorder. Okay. And the medical community currently considers it untreatable. Like you can’t actually help somebody who can’t have an ejaculation. Well this tool could actually change that. That’s awesome. So it really is awesome. And so, you know, we’re trying to get medical doctors engaged in doing some clinical research we have, which is always

Speaker 3 (29m 2s): How hard because it’s a sex

Speaker 2 (29m 4s): Toy. It’s a sex toy. Right. So, so we’re, we’re we’re working on that. Yeah. And, but that’s like, you know, so when you say what’s come, what’s happened since then? So what’s happened since then is we’ve taken a shipment of SLS from Germany, we’ve started marketing and promoting the products, signing up affiliates and selling, you know, e-commerce wise selling product out into the world. Yeah. And on a gradient, we’re introducing SLU to the North American continent.

Speaker 1 (29m 32s): That’s awesome. And I, I assume the early adopters have mainly been men with erectile dysfunction.

Speaker 2 (29m 39s): No, that’s, that’s actually, that’s actually not true. Early adopters are the ProAm community because they can use it as an edging tool, as a forced orgasm tool, as a, a tool to make somebody come when they are, are told not to come. Interesting. So the pro, the ProAm community digs it. That’s why the Pro-ams are all affiliates because they love it and they make their clients get it and then they charge them to use it, you know?

Speaker 1 (30m 5s): Oh yes. Dominate em would dominate, dominate that what we do a regular client card with the whole fin dom thing. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (30m 14s): You do that too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): I’m starting, I’m starting to understand how fin do works. So that sounds like a classic case

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): Potentially. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 22s): Yeah. So tell me about your affiliate program. Why don’t you gimme some details? Okay, good. And why people should join it.

Speaker 2 (30m 30s): Okay, great. Thank you. So the affiliate program can be, can be accessed at our website, which is slab usa.com. There’s a link for the individual affiliate program there. You can click on the menu item, it’ll take you to the page, you can register to be an affiliate there. The reason you would do it is because every time somebody uses your unique code discount code or your unique code, you earn 20%, which is not bad. Ah, the PR sells for $235.

So that’s a healthy chunk of change. So if you just had, if you just had five people do it in your, in your discount code, you get effectively get a SL for free because you get 20% off. So that’s the reason to do it. And then we will give you unique discount codes to promote and so forth. So, Okay. It makes the affiliate program worthwhile.

Speaker 1 (31m 23s): Hmm. Interesting. What new attachments are you gonna be having for sl?

Speaker 2 (31m 28s): So, that’s a great question too. You know, Michael, who’s the inventor, has been working on a few things. Like one of them is a hands free stand, so you can just attach it and just let it do its thing, which is great because it’s, it’s not a light tool, it’s a little bit heavy because it’s a power tool. One of them is a universal adapter, so you can actually attach any insertable object to it, so it could become something that you can use with women or with, you know, as play or whatever.

Speaker 1 (31m 59s): That’s true.

Speaker 2 (32m 0s): And then the last thing he’s working on, as far as I know right now is a device that will allow prostate stimulation, electrical stimulation while you’re using the SL on the penis. So you actually get that, that power of like controlled,

Speaker 1 (32m 18s): The whole prostate stimulation thing has gotten very big, hasn’t it?

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): It has, yeah. I mean, you know, we have three sex organs. We have our cock, our balls, and our prostate. Those are our three sex organs. And most men don’t really think about their prostate as a sex organ, but it absolutely is. Yeah. And, you know, having your prostate attended to by a loving partner is probably one of the most incredible sexual experiences you’ll ever have.

Speaker 1 (32m 45s): One thing I I I need to confirm about the sl. It, does it just work on the penis or does it also work on the balls?

Speaker 2 (32m 54s): You can put it anywhere. It’s a strap. Right? The words SL comes from the acronym of Sling and Rub. So you can wrap it around anything,

Speaker 3 (33m 3s): But you don’t wanna, it should never be like, form fitting. It’s not tight. Yeah. You should always have a finger with, in the, in the sling itself. Sure. Because the whole point is the vibration not to have it strapped down, jerking it around. That’s

Speaker 2 (33m 19s): Not strap it too tight on anything that’s gonna cause skin abrasion, which is no fun. So we don’t want that

Speaker 1 (33m 24s): Tell there. It’s not.

Speaker 2 (33m 26s): No, it’s not. So you want it loose, but you also wanna use a lot of silicon lube because the lube lasts. You can use water base, but it Sure. But

Speaker 3 (33m 33s): The silicon seems to last longer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33m 35s): And so we actually ship it with Silicon lube as well.

Speaker 1 (33m 38s): Oh, that’s nice. That’s nice. How do most people use it? Do they just put it around their penis?

Speaker 2 (33m 45s): Yes. Most people, most people who have a partner, their partner runs it. Right. So Lady Petri uses it on me, for example, and, and she, she slides it up and down the penis and she rested the bottom and rest at the top until she’s happy with the results.

Speaker 3 (34m 3s): I’ll, I’ll just give you from my perspective, because he’s leaning back, enjoying it while I’m doing this. One of the things that I was taken of when we were considering distributorship here and, and I had made comments before that there weren’t any real selection for men on specific men toys. There were things like the flashlight, well, the guy has to then manually do it, or his partner has to manually do it. Okay. And then there’s like POV kind of computer generated flashlight type things.

Okay. Right. But this was the first thing that was very set up for men specifically. And when I was using it, I knew it would be similar to my experience with clitoral stimulation, but I had no idea he’s aroused when we play. So I get that, I’ve seen it, I know it happens, but with this unit, when I kept it at the base, the actual arousal state of the penis, the girth that happened was pretty breathtaking.

Wow. And as a woman, you know, everyone talks about having the big cock and 12, 15, 20 inches long. And let’s be honest, most women do

Speaker 1 (35m 14s): Not. That would be, that would, that would give me a bad back. I wouldn’t want that.

Speaker 3 (35m 17s): Well, and most women, quite frankly, I mean, Liz, people can be size hounds, but the idea is no one wants a bruised uterus. So

Speaker 1 (35m 25s): Yes. And I live in,

Speaker 3 (35m 26s): It’s never that cool because there’s only six inches in there and it either goes the right or the left, and you either move other body parts to get it all the way up there. Yeah. But what women think when women see the girth. Yeah. Oh my god, every woman I know who sees girth doesn’t matter. It can’t be a button. But if it’s girthy, they’re like, Oh shit. Because if you think about it, women’s other sex organ, the GPO is only a few inches inside. And so it’s the girth that is hitting that G spot.

Speaker 2 (35m 58s): Yeah. When she had that on me that my, my cock was so engorged. It

Speaker 3 (36m 2s): Was, it was huge. I’ve never seen it get that big.

Speaker 2 (36m 4s): Yeah. And it’s just not just my experience, you know, Dirk Hooper, who’s a publicist in the US who does a lot of art, and he’s a kinky sort of character. He, he recently reviewed the slab and in his review he notes that he got that in Gorge too. But it didn’t just wasn’t just, then the next time he had sex, he got equally as en gorge. So it carried over. Wow. So there was, there was a carryover effect on his ability to respond to that stimulation.

Speaker 3 (36m 30s): Yeah. And then, and you know, then of course, I, I was curious, I don’t have a penis, so I’m playing with his penis. So I’m engorging the base. And so then I move up to the middle and I watch it continue to en gorge. Wow. And then I’m like devious. And I think to myself, I’m gonna make him come and I go right up to the glands and there you go. It’s just happening. There’s like, No, that’s cool. And, and because I’m a switch, I’m dominant to others beyond Saffer. I thought, what wouldn’t this be crazy if I just said as I brought it up now you’re not allowed to come.

Okay. Could you imagine the torture of that moment? Just

Speaker 1 (37m 9s): I can, Yes. Yeah. Don’t want to, but I can. I don’t know. I just like, pleasure. What can I say? I’m, I’m, I’m, I guess I’m, Anyway, you’re Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, it’s, it’s, it’s fascinating. It’s def it’s definitely fascinating. Hey, you’re new in the whole Pleasure Products game. How have you found the industry and the community so far?

Speaker 2 (37m 39s): It’s interesting, you know, we’re learning little by little about how this all works and we’re kind of outliers because we are so new at it. Right. And so, you know, we’re dealing with what any new business deals with which is breaking into a, an industry. We’ve had some resistance from certain carriers, we’ve had some acceptance from others, you know, so some of the, the big stores like 6, 6 5 leather and the, the stockroom are interested in carrying sl and they will I be Yeah.

Yeah. Others, others aren’t. And so, you know, it’s, it’s hard to say. We’re still so new at it that we haven’t really experienced the vagaries of distributing a product in the US and we’ve, we’ve not encountered, say, distributors for example. Right, Right. So, you know, when that comes up, it’s gonna be an interesting conversation. So right now we’re,

Speaker 1 (38m 37s): So you’re looking, so you’re looking for distributors to work with you?

Speaker 2 (38m 41s): Not necessarily. What we’re interested in is finding parallel products to co-market, you know, so we’re working with, we’re working with a company that that makes a woman’s seated saddle style sex toy to be a partner of ours. And hopefully that’ll come together, in which case it’ll sort of launch us into a different category of distribution. You know, the, the challenges that we have, because it’s a new product to the United States is, and the factory for the machine is in China.

Speaker 3 (39m 14s): And,

Speaker 1 (39m 15s): But of course it’s in China, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39m 18s): And, and you know, it’s in Shanghai and of course Shanghai is largely shut down and the, the, the, of course supply chain mechanics are really fucked up from Covid, but now double fucked up from the war in Ukraine. Yep.

Speaker 1 (39m 32s): So,

Speaker 2 (39m 32s): You know, so we’ve got some considerations there to deal with. So we’re just dealing with things we’ve never had to consider because up until now we’ve been, you know, podcasters and, and, and you know, we’ve just enjoyed playing with each other. Now we’re suddenly, you know, teaching at Dom Con and we’re invited to speak on platforms like yours. And we’re sort of introducing ourselves as gangsters with this product to the community. And in some cases wonderful receptivity and in some cases a little bit of suspicion and pushback.

Speaker 1 (40m 6s): Yeah. I find this industry, unfortunately, you have to be around a while before you’re accepted in some ways. And I’ve been in it for over 20 years. In some ways I still don’t feel completely accepted, unfortunately, because it’s very cliquey.

Speaker 2 (40m 21s): Yeah,

Speaker 3 (40m 22s): Yeah. I think also I notice even if you just go through trade shows as a female, I, I notice it’s very female-centric in the sense of the kind of products that are available, the plethora of products available. True. That’s true. And so when you come up with a man’s toy, it’s like, well, come on. I mean that, you get a little pushback in that area, but what makes this different is this really is one of the first, it’s not a, it’s not a female toy that has been made to fit for men.

It’s actually a man’s man’s toy. Like guys would go, Ger yeah. This is my toy. You know, that kinda thing. And I think sometimes the industry is like, well, we want it to be sexy and Yeah. The mirror and it needs to be this, Well, I don’t know, we

Speaker 2 (41m 11s): Talk to, maybe not, we talk to a woman who is theoretically a big shot in the sex toy community and she was very standoffish. She didn’t even wanna,

Speaker 3 (41m 21s): Like, it wasn’t sexy enough, it wasn’t enough appeal for women. And I was like, this is made for men, not for women.

Speaker 2 (41m 27s): Exactly. It’s gonna a hard, it’s not gonna be easy, You know,

Speaker 1 (41m 30s): Are you gonna, I’m sorry? Are you gonna go to the, to any of the industry, the pleasure products, industry event? We

Speaker 2 (41m 39s): Will, yeah. I mean, it’s early days for us and we don’t have a huge budget for this. We need to see movement. Yeah. So it’s gonna, we’re sort of grass, we’re sort of grassroot bootstrapping it.

Speaker 1 (41m 49s): Right.

Speaker 2 (41m 49s): And, and we’re just trying to see if we can create a traction of the device on its own. And once we get to a certain point, e-commerce is gonna drive our conversation for the most part.

Speaker 3 (41m 59s): I think also too, the partnerships we’re building with some of these other companies who may choose to align with us as well as we’ve got the, the new lube company that has another product with itself that is very specific to

Speaker 2 (42m 13s): Ours. Yeah. So that’s an interesting company. They’re called Pulse and they manufactured, you know, they’ve, they’re actually an 8 million company. They manufacture a very specific set of lubes and a lube distribution device. Right. And their target audience are women of a certain age. Right. So who are the women of a certain age? She’s a 50 plus year old woman who are menopausal Yeah. Or post-menopausal. Right. And now they have access to a quick lube distribution

Speaker 3 (42m 41s): Oh, warmed. Warmed. Where you place your hand under and dispenses the perfect amount of lube

Speaker 2 (42m 46s): So you don’t need anything. Right, Right. And, and so like that’s their target market and and guess who, guess who they have as partners. Well they have men of a certain age.

Speaker 1 (42m 55s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (42m 56s): So, so it’s a great

Speaker 1 (42m 57s): Opportunity who might have, who might have problems. Yeah. Who

Speaker 2 (42m 59s): Might have some. Exactly. Got it. So, so partnering with companies like that, So we’re taking a more of a holistic look at it. We’re not sort of like, like exclusively focused on the sex toy industry part. We’re also looking at the erectile dysfunction industry part. Right. And we believe that we can tackle this from both sides. So we can, we can get early adopters like pro-ams to be affiliates and sell it. We can get, you know, men who discover us through podcasts like this to buy it directly from us and we can partner with companies that manufacture similar sex toys and we can partner with medically oriented companies that potentially reach into the market differently.

Yeah. And we’re trying to get medical research undergoing and

Speaker 3 (43m 43s): Running workshops where we can actually in smaller, in that community space, demonstrate, you know, Yeah. Right. I can bring a submissive to demonstrate to other people how they can use this, how they can, you know, you could, you could think about being able to highlight this in multiple ways. Spark up the marriage, spark up a relationship, dominate it, a relationship, what have you. Yeah. But being able to show them cuz they just, they’ve never been exposed to something like this. So that’s part of the thing.

Speaker 2 (44m 10s): Yeah. Yes. It’s very cool.

Speaker 1 (44m 12s): Yeah, indeed. Well, it still might not be a bad idea to go to the January shows AVN and, and Ex and there’s also an interesting show in Hong Kong next month. Oh, interesting. And then in November it’s strictly B2B and Macau actually worked with that guy at one time or another. We can discuss it. Anyway. So where else is SL being sold now?

Speaker 2 (44m 39s): So we have patent protection in eight countries, so in the United States and Canada, North America. We also are selling it in Europe at, with the original slab store. And they are in Great Britain, Germany, France, Switzerland, Belgium, Holland and Italy.

Speaker 3 (44m 60s): And there, and the goal is with Michael is to create a global market.

Speaker 2 (45m 4s): Yeah. Our, our intention is to do that over, over time.

Speaker 1 (45m 7s): Of course. How is it doing in the other international markets?

Speaker 2 (45m 12s): Well, he only started selling about, you know, in 2020 and he originally started right. Selling just the attachment and then gradually sort of got a machine. And so really it’s only been about a year that he’s been selling and he’s probably, he’s probably sold about, you know, 1500 units since he started. Okay.

Speaker 3 (45m 31s): He doesn’t, he passively sells.

Speaker 2 (45m 33s): He, he’s very passive. We’re trying to be a little more forward thinking about it and, you know, Yeah. We’re trying to take a bigger picture look and we’re trying to build a structure, a system and a structure for selling that we can then turn around and bring to his other countries in Europe. So our intention is to develop an infrastructure of selling here in the United States and Canada, and then take it to Germany and to Great Britain and then expand out to Holland, you know, France and so forth.

Speaker 1 (46m 2s): So do you have those other markets as well?

Speaker 2 (46m 4s): Yeah, so we’re, we, you know, he’s our partner, so we aren’t just his distributor. He actually is a, a shareholder in our company and Okay. He’s, he’s part of now together we’ve

Speaker 3 (46m 16s): Aligned

Speaker 2 (46m 17s): Yeah. We’ve aligned to bring, you know, our business model concepts to his distribution systems in Europe.

Speaker 3 (46m 26s): Interesting. That leads him available to continue to invent new, new product. Right,

Speaker 1 (46m 31s): Right. Which is his role. Definitely. And he’s obviously done a great job. That’s fantastic. This sounds like a really exciting ground floored thing for you.

Speaker 2 (46m 40s): It is. I’m excited about it. I think it’s lovely. It’s wonderful. It’s completely aligned with who we are as sexual

Speaker 3 (46m 46s): Creatures. Yeah. And I just think if you could provide an opportunity for some man or someone with male parts to have an experience like this, why not? Yeah, why not?

Speaker 1 (46m 58s): Well, especially, especially if they, they can’t get erect or they can’t come. That’s, But even if, what a gift,

Speaker 2 (47m 6s): I can tell you Bruce, I’ve, I’m 63, right. I have never had a sexual experience like that. Ever. Wow. It’s my, it’s literally mind blowing.

Speaker 3 (47m 15s): And I think, you know, the idea with Covid that woke a lot of us up to who, and not necessarily us as much as people that were alone, but people were isolated. And to be able to have a toy where you could be, be either privately playing or sexting and playing or video zooming or have a dominant someplace else or what have you, whatever you make up. Yeah. That’s a new concept for men other than just the good old hand.

Speaker 1 (47m 43s): Sure. Oh yeah. The hand has its limitations. There’s no two ways about it. Let’s face it,

Speaker 2 (47m 49s): Opposable thumbs,

Speaker 3 (47m 51s): I mean the hand does because this is why women love the Hitachi and this is why I love the Hitachi.

Speaker 1 (47m 56s): Yeah, yeah. I’m all thumbs Actually, I understand you have a discount code for our listeners. Why don’t you We do tell. Tell them what it is.

Speaker 2 (48m 4s): Yeah. We’re giving you your listeners a $20 discount. Nice. They can use the code intro 20 when they check out@sl-usa.com.

Speaker 1 (48m 15s): Beautiful. Well, anyone out there who has gotten as enthralled by this as I have during our interview should definitely check it out. Saffer Master and Lady Petra, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon so we can get an update.

Speaker 2 (48m 38s): Great. Thank you so much for having that. It’s been a real

Speaker 3 (48m 40s): Pleasure. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (48m 42s): Pleasure was all mine. My broker tip today is part 10 of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about what information to give a potential buyer and what determines the value of a site. We’ll continue that today. If a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic, direct traffic, search engine traffic and review traffic are the most valuable.

Tube traffic is the least valuable. Is the traffic reliable and sustainable? What is the traffic history? In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as to profit. And the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website? Is the domain.com or something else? Dot com is still king. How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site?

That is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it? And how much time would be involved? What’s the lifetime value of a customer on the site Next week, how to buy a website. And next week we’ll be speaking with Jerry from Baldo. And that’s it for this week’s adult site broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guests, SafferMaster and Lady Petra from Slubb USA.

Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Dan Hogue of Pornstar Platinum and Trans Erotica.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale and adult site broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a unique network of pay sites. The network includes six pay sites of many different stripes, a gay cause play, bareback and fetish site, a straight pegging light, fdo Boy, girl, and Penny host fetish site, a bi threesome site, a queer hot sex site, a hardcore BDSM and bonded site.

And finally, a trans female site. There’s also a very active affiliate program with Nats as its backend through over a decade of independently funding, shooting, and selling niche content. They’ve funded these six pay sites, found eager, ethical, and competent directors to run them and put content on them, as well as having an affiliate program. Most of the content is exclusive with an influx of cash in a dedicated team to help grow the brand. There’s a lot of opportunity, only 1.6 million.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Dan Ho, Director of Operations at Porn Star Platinum and Trans erotica. He’s also co-founder of Razor Edge Talent. Dan, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk. Happy

Speaker 2 (2m 40s): To be with you,

Speaker 1 (2m 41s): Bruce. Dan, it’s always a pleasure. Now, Dan started in 1998 in the amateur market with his then wife and had the first swinging couple site on the internet. He morphed this into starting a CAM network with other amateurs, and then he rolled that into one of the top cam companies, Cam Z I remember it, Walden, which specialized in cam shows for amateurs and porn stars to broadcast shows to their member areas. Now, Dan spent 15 years in the CAM business and won Best Live cam site from Ex Biz, as well as an industry pioneer award for innovations and live cams.

Now, Dan is now director of operations at Porn Star Platinum and Trans, which I said he’s also heavily involved in channels management for porn stars. After 23 years in the business, Dan is still actively involved in the industry and still loving every minute of it. Hey, let’s start there, Dan. You still love every minute of it.

Speaker 3 (3m 37s): Absolutely. The good and the bad. There’s a, there’s a fair amount of, of both when you’re dealing directly, I, not only with owners, program owners, but talent and trying to coordinate with talent and make it all come together on the production side as well as the business side. So I get a pretty good mix of, of all of it, and sure, it’s a lot of fun, but it’s challenging. It’s challenging and it keeps me motivated.

Speaker 1 (4m 6s): So, yeah, I mean, and, and it’s interesting because you, you have such a well rounded amount of experience in the adult industry, starting with an amateur swing site and then then cams, and now you’re in the management end. I really don’t know anybody who has as much experience in the industry really

Speaker 3 (4m 30s): Well diversified. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 1 (4m 33s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (4m 33s): Right. Kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, as they say.

Speaker 1 (4m 38s): Oh, I wouldn’t say that.

Speaker 3 (4m 39s): You know, I, you know, I’ve had, I’ve, I’ve done a lot with, you know, on the business end as well as from working with directly with performers now a lot. Sure. I see from their perspective as well. So it’s, yeah, I have a pretty good, you know, working knowledge of what it takes on the back end to run a successful program, as well as how to be successful as a performer and help them be more successful and how the two intertwine to help both the companies that they, they work with and for and, and help how those companies can then help them help the other performers as well succeed.


Speaker 1 (5m 22s): Yeah. Now talk about your journey in adult and where it’s taken you.

Speaker 3 (5m 26s): Oh, wow. From the beginning, obviously we got into it for fun. We got into it Yeah. Because of our lifestyle. Sure. It was a way, you know, I think I told this story once before where we were, we had cut and tired of kind of hitting on our friends who were not necessarily in the lifestyle. So we went online and we met this girl and her and her husband, and she happened to be, and we hit it off and we went back to their hotel room at a, after meeting at a, a swing club in Kansas City.

Yeah. She came up, she, she just said, Hey, would you like to take pictures for our website? And we’re like, Sure. And it was a great icebreaker, and it was the, it was a great, it was just, Yeah. And it gave us something to do and it was fun. And you know, the next thing you know, we’re all, we’re having a good time. We’re, you know, having sex and taking pictures and having a, you know, it just, and a light bulb went off in my head, said, We gotta do this. This is fun. And so we kind of grew from there. And then, you know, the, the bad end of it is you get outed eventually and, and our children being at an age where they wouldn’t understand.

So obviously we moved away from Kansas, Conservative Kansas to Florida, and we kind of changed paths from being our, our own being stars of our own, or being performers of our own, excuse me. And then into more of helping others be successful, managing their websites, hosting them for free. We started a cam network traffic and things like that. So we started getting and transferring more into the service side.

Speaker 1 (7m 8s): Yeah. Then it took you to, to Cam Z, which was quite a success.

Speaker 3 (7m 12s): It was, and it was a lot of fun, I gotta tell you that, especially the early years of, of Cams z that was, that was a blast of building it. And I, you know, I always loved the process of building and, and helping others. And it, you know, it was, in the beginning we were, you know, there was a lot of member area traffic from the amateurs themselves, but they were getting siphoned from other cam networks, and we developed one where we gave back to the performers and they would get the majority of the traffic as well.

They should, during their time as doing their shows. And we would sell those shows to other companies who didn’t have the luxury of having a live performance, you know, But, and then we would actually even pay the performers additional revenue in addition to the traffic that they got. So it’s a really good model for a long time until the tubes came out and started, you know, doing what they did to the, to the members areas.

Speaker 1 (8m 13s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (8m 14s): The amateur market. We all know what they did. What, what happened there. So

Speaker 1 (8m 18s): You were in Cams for a long time. Any itch to get back into it?

Speaker 3 (8m 22s): I always have, you know, it, it’s always been the passion. It’s where my, it, it is where my heart actually lies in, in Live Cam. But at the same time, I really like, and, and I can give the pointers to my, to the talent that I I help today with, you know, whether it be advice on their only fans and or their channels to do Live cam, that the interaction is so important and it really does make a difference.

Speaker 1 (8m 58s): Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, everything you’ve always done has been very performer focused. Why is that?

Speaker 3 (9m 6s): The, they’re the cog and the wheel that, you know, they’re the engine, right? Yeah. Everybody says the content is king. Right. And well, without performers you don’t have content. Sure. And I, it, they’re the most fun, you know, like if you think back the parties of old and you’ve been around long enough to know, you know, it was always the amateurs having fun. It was always the, the porn stars or the amateurs that were the life of the party and what made this industry great.

I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s fun to hang around and network with the business guys and the guys hanging out and stuff like that. But realistically we go to shows not only to do business, but to have fun. Yeah. And ever since the performers and the amateurs were pretty much chased out of this business. It’s not as fun at shows, you know, it is much more business oriented, but that’s not necessarily always a bad thing when it comes to business in general, you know? But there is a lot less fun at shows.

Speaker 1 (10m 8s): Yeah. You can go to shows now, and if you didn’t know better, you would swear it’s an insurance convention or something like that,

Speaker 3 (10m 17s): Right? Yeah, yeah. Or a sausage fest. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (10m 22s): I was thinking that. I was absolutely, You were thinking that too. It’s a hundred percent a sausage fest. Oh, 99%, let’s say. So maybe you can tell us what’s happened since we last spoke.

Speaker 3 (10m 36s): Oh, quite a bit. I, I did get divorced. I was married for a little over a year to a performer and Right. You know, so that didn’t work out. And I followed for divorce and, you know, just, it been super, super busy with expanding as well as the, the, you know, going through some changes over at Porn Star Platinum and trans erotica. We took on Crush Girls as well, which is kind of the OC modelings version of Porn Star Platinum.

And I have taken over production now for those, for those three, primarily Transa and Porn Star Platinum, as well as expanded into the, you know, more and more into the channels management and fan site, you know, consulting

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): Right. Now. Tell me more about Porn Star Platinum and Transa. What are their strengths?

Speaker 3 (11m 37s): Well, right now, yeah, we are kind of going through a lot of changes and we’re kind of going with the flow where we were relying strictly on solo girl sites. We would build the sites around there around say, a Lower Jensen know a Clear Clouds, Lea Falcon and others. We would rely on them to come for us for updates and come to us for updates and, and, and update the sites. It got, with the proliferation of the fan sites and the channels where the girls are making so much money that sure, they really didn’t care about the, the ancillary revenue anymore of a website.

And they didn’t, they don’t really need the content because now that they’ve been doing fan sites for so long, they’ve become really good at creating their own content. Yeah. Back in the day when we were doing trade content, because we are a trade content company, it was very important for them to have that content. So they, it was, it was, we became a necessary, necessary evil, so to speak, that they come to us for trade content, We build a site that gets a little bit of ancillary revenue from it, from the, what their site will generate.

At the same time they get quality professionally shot content that they can use on their channels, on their porn hub, on their only fans, what, whatever their loyal fans, whatever fan site or, or channels that they chose to go on. And so it was, it was a valuable service. We provide them not only professionally shot raw content, but they also get the edited version as well. So we have a cost saving factor, a time saving factor as well as a quality of content.

Yeah. But now they’ve become more and more so we’ve had to adjust with the times. We are now doing some pay trade, we are doing more pay trade content where we offer some revenue as well as the content the same way we did back when we were just trade. You know, they get the raw, they get the edited version of the content as well as a few bucks in their pocket to go along with it. And then sometimes if we, if they want a specific mail and we design the content around too, that we, we produce content that sells well for them.

Yes. Because in the reality is if it sells well for them, it’s probably gonna sell well for us as well. That is a little, that’s a change recently that both trans erotica and porn star platinum have gone through as far as production. So we do, we do offer paid trades now.

Speaker 1 (14m 10s): So with the types of sites out there, like only fans, do you find that there’s, there’s a shortage of models to work with?

Speaker 3 (14m 20s): No, Proliferation is, it’s incredible the amount of girls now when it comes to like porn star platinum, for instance, it is named porn star platinum, not creator Platinum. Right.

Speaker 1 (14m 34s): So

Speaker 3 (14m 34s): We kind of, we’re kind of limited on we, we need porn stars. Yeah. We need people who, who are proud to call themselves porn stars who’ve earned that. And you know, like creators, there’s some wonderful creators who, sure, in my eyes, natural porn stars, they live the lifestyle. They beautiful. They’re, they know how to perform just kill a scene. And however, they’re just, they don’t consider them porn stars. They don’t consider themselves porn stars.

And maybe our fans don’t either, but because they’re creators, but they’re pretty well known. So we just, you know, for, in that realm, I think it’s a little bit of a challenge when it comes to transa. There are so many new stars, so many beautiful women that are popping up. You know, the expansion of female to male trans too is really been an expanding market now and evolving one as well. So, you know, Transa, there’s a lot of fantastic new performers coming on, coming on the scene.

And we certainly are one to reach out to those who are looking to, to grow their brand and to increase their exposure and to get the content. So yeah, there’s no, there’s certainly no shortage of people to work with on either side and there. And not to, sorry, you know, not to be longwinded or anything, but even I was talking with Sandra from OC modeling wonderful agency and she even, you know, cuz I was mentioning that, hey, we’re gonna go to this paid trade stuff.

How do we work? How does that work with you agents? Oh, we have a list. And I’m like, Oh, you have a list. Yeah, we have girls or n males that do paid trade and there’s, here’s a rate sheet for their paid trades, so we can now go to the agencies for these paid trades. Great. Yeah. Makes it easier.

Speaker 1 (16m 36s): Do you think that the term porn star is overused in the industry?

Speaker 3 (16m 42s): No, not really.

Speaker 1 (16m 44s): I mean, do you think, do you think some people who aren’t necessarily, do you think that that too many people who aren’t necessarily porn stars use it?

Speaker 3 (16m 52s): Look, if you’re cre in my opinion, if you’re a creator and you have fans, you’re a porn star in my eyes. Okay. You know, but I don’t, you know, I work for the company. I, I don’t, you know, I don’t own it. I, you know, I, I’m, at the end of the day, I’m an employee of porn star platinum and, you know, if, if their definition of porn star does it, it, it may or may not match what my definition of porn star is.

Speaker 1 (17m 19s): This is true. But

Speaker 3 (17m 20s): In the, in the end, what our fans want is equality quality content. So there are times when I find creators as, as defined by my, my rules that I was handed. You know, And, and I would say that no, they’re, they’re definitely porn stars. They have followers that would shadow many porn stars, you know? And so in my eyes that’s, you know, know where the, where the metal meets the, or the rubber meets the road as they say.

Speaker 1 (17m 55s): Okay. So how do you feel about the push from government and organizations pushing for accountability and content verification now the third party op upload sites are responding.

Speaker 3 (18m 9s): Yeah, I think they, you know, it’s kind of what we’ve done in this industry throughout my tenure in it is the mistakes of a few costs. Tremendous hassle for the many. And I think this is another example, and it’s a reaction from those mistakes of a few that has now caused many of us to jump through a bunch of hoops now. Yeah. It is a logical fix and insurance policy that is, you know, the credit cards feel that it’s necessary in order to protect their brands, to make us accountable and, and to police, since we didn’t police ourselves in the beginning, you know, that, or with the companies that made these errors that caused this steam role effect.

You know, we have now since we didn’t police ourselves, which we’re normally we’re really good at, but we did the same thing with credit cards. You know, when people were slamming credit cards and, you know, chasing down 25% chargeback ratios, you know, it wasn’t before, it wasn’t long before the credit card companies came back and said, Okay, you now have, if you get over 5% or two and a half percent chargebacks, you’re gonna, you know, we’re gonna cut you off. And then, Oh, that’s not good enough. We’re gonna go to one and half percent or 1%. Yeah.

So it’s kind of like the same thing is happening now with age verification and you know, like accountability for, they’re trying to make these third party upload sites more accountable and because they didn’t make it account themselves accountable, they would, you know, they Right. There was a select few that made some egregious errors that they’re now paying for dearly. And unfortunately the pressure, I think of some organizations to that are associated, have their brands associated with that get hurt and overreact.

It’s kind of like where the airlines had that one guy who tried to light his shoe on fire, Now we all have to take our shoes off. Exactly. There was one example

Speaker 1 (20m 21s): Actors, right, that actors always mess up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They mess it up for everybody. There’s no two ways about it. Do you think Visa and MasterCard are, are falling to the pressure from these organizations and what can be done about it?

Speaker 3 (20m 35s): Absolutely. I think that’s what this is. The, the, they, when MasterCard especially came out with their guidelines for, especially for third party uploads, which is really what’s causing so many issues where you either have to be, you know, and, and for creators think about a creator, they now have to verify, Oh hey, do you, you know, like instead of just doing a shoot with somebody, even if they do paperwork, they really cannot, it’s not good enough because if you’re not tagging the other person, you’re not able to tag the other per person on the specific platform that you are on.

It’s very difficult for you to use that content on that platform. Right? Sure. So you have to find people who are on the platform that, or platforms that you are on and, and then arrange trade shoots or content shoots with them and then, you know, still do the paperwork and due diligence and all that and, and testing and all that. But v said MasterCard are definitely falling to the pressure and, you know, they, they are the gatekeepers of our business and Yep.

They, they know it, we lose them. We are done as an industry pretty

Speaker 1 (21m 57s): Much. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21m 59s): You know, we can see that through how not successful some of the, you know, the one who, the, the one site who shall the nameless, mainly because I’ve been doing a lot of extra work for them, but you know, they, they, they lost theirs and their revenue is a fraction based on Bitcoin or, you know, crypto or however how whatever other forms that they’re trying to get through that’s not credit card related.

Sure. We, we know that, you know, that it’s gonna be a fraction of the revenue and if we lose the ability to take credit cards, we’re all done.

Speaker 1 (22m 38s): Yeah. Pretty much. Until somebody comes up with an alternative that the public will accept, we’re stuck with credit cards. It’s, that’s, you know, that’s pretty much mainly for the US Obviously in Europe and some other places, there are other payment forms that are used primarily, but even Europe credit card usage has gone up. There’s no two ways about it. What are some obstacles as we, as an industry are facing over the next year or so?

Speaker 3 (23m 7s): Oh, that’s kind of fluid. I think, you know, if you would’ve asked me, I would’ve said credit cards. Yeah. Because I think they’re under a lot of pressure, both politically and from the extreme right. To, you know, attack us and they’re threatening our ability to take charge. I mean, if they were to hire me to do it, I would, That’s exactly how I would go about it. The, I think right now I think it’s economics. I think the economy there, you know, here it’s, we’re about to click over to the 15th of July, right.

And we’re, we’re about to get a lot of numbers that are released for about our economy. And some of this stuff had leaked out early regarding inflationary numbers that we haven’t seen since Jimmy Carter and, and the early days of Ronald Reagan when, when he first started his, his tenure. And, you know, we haven’t seen economic, you know, inflation in the not over 9% since, you know, since those 90 what, 91 timeframes.

And, and so it’s, it’s a little scary times here in the US and, and people don’t know it. Like the, there was a quote from JP Morgan Chase ceo. He said, There’s this, there’s a, a hurricane, an economic hurricane off the coast. We just don’t know what scale it is yet. So buckle up. Yeah. I mean, that was his quote. Wow. So it’s, that’s kind of scary when you think about the economy and the inflationary numbers that I’m seeing and that we’ve all seen that the gas pump, whether it’s the gas pump, whether it’s the grocery stores, whether it’s your rent or you’re, you’re, you know, now the interest rates are going up, which is, you know, they, they were at zero.

So it, it put the fed in a really difficult position because, and but it’s a natural thing when you pump in 12, what did we pump in 20 billion, 20 trillion into the economy over covid. Yeah. You know, I think it was somewhere around 20 trillion that we printed and eventually that’s gonna catch up. Course. That’s, that’s what’s happening. And so that’s the biggest scare for me is the economy and you know, like cuz most of our revenue comes from the US and Great Britain and, you know, some of the great economies of the world now we’re gonna get hit a little harder I think, than anybody else, in my opinion, cuz we’re less prepared for it.

Speaker 1 (25m 33s): Yeah. And we usually get hit first and we recover first is, is how it, how it tends to work when these things happen because the entire world responds to the US economy. So it’s, the rest of the world reacts to what happens in, in the US And I should give the standard disclaimer, we’re recording this in July, as you say, July 15th. So, and it will run sometime in September. So I noticed the move from NVC talent to now razor edge talent.

What happened there?

Speaker 3 (26m 9s): Biggest thing was probably divorce, excuse mec, new verticals consulting was a company that my, my then wife and I had started and when we went our separate ways through roundabout different things that happened between us, I ended up starting Razor edge talent with my now partner, Bambi Bliss. And it, it turned out to be a very good move. We have really made, you know, it, and not, not to too our own horns or anything, but we’ve hit our stride and just, it’s so much.

And you, you know, if you were to ask me what keeps me going, you know, like changing people’s lives, really, it’s a reality for me now. I’ve always wanted to be in philanthropy and this is about as close as I’m gonna get because I no longer have a cam site that I’m gonna be able to sell for, you know, the 20 million or whatever it is to start a foundation and, and Right. And get into philanthropy. So this is about as close as I can get and just make a difference in people’s lives and you know, and we are, and that’s that right to me is most rewarding.

And so that the primary thing is basically just change of ownership.

Speaker 1 (27m 25s): Yeah. So along with that, how are you enjoying talent management and how’s the new company doing?

Speaker 3 (27m 33s): Phenomenal. Like four x star revenue over the last quarter. Wow. Yeah. And it’s, it’s been, it’s been a really mixture of good and very, very sad and dramatic times with some performers, you know, losing loved ones. And I actually unfortunately had been called by one of my clients to her house to check on her fiance. And it was a, I, you know, unlocked her car remotely from where she was at.

And unfortunately I had found him passed in his bed, he passed peacefully and it just, it just, it was, it was such a horrible day and you know, like, and just, yeah, I bet there’s, you know, with some and other ones, you know, going through very much trauma of their own and reliving again some trauma that they’ve gone through, you know, and just dealing with you cuz they’re, you know, they’re not only my clients, you know, I don’t, I never look at people who work with me as clients, but the more my friends and family Yes.

And I, I take that responsibility and so does my partner. We take that responsibility very, very seriously. And people ask me, he says, Dan, you really need to take some time for yourself. And I said, well, I would if I worked for myself, but I, you know, and, and if, if I was responsible only for me and my business or my income, it’d be great. I can do that. I can go on a vacation, I can take that time off if I need to. Sure. When you’re responsible for the livelihoods of families, you know, 20, 30 families, then you don’t have that luxury anymore.

It’s kind of like when you have, when you have kids, I like when my children had my grandbabies, I said, Your life is no longer your own. It belongs to that little, little one in your arms now. And to me that’s kind of like how my clients and my friends are for me. It’s like I take their, the responsibility that they lay at my feet very seriously. Yeah. And I’m gonna work hard every day and, and my team works very hard and my partner works very hard every day, seven days a week to do the best job we can for them and, and earn them as much as we can.

And we are, we’re, you know, it’s fun and rewarding to see the life-changing revenues that, that we’re seeing

Speaker 1 (30m 9s): Now. You used to be a, an entrepreneur and didn’t work for anybody, now you do work for a company. What do you find the difference to be for you? Besides No, besides no vacations. Right.

Speaker 3 (30m 24s): I never got one of those either with them by the way. It’s just saying and I still don’t, but you know what they, you know, I work for JC Baumgartner primarily my, is my immediate guy. Right? Yeah. There’s, there’s a, there’s not a lot of Indians. There’s a lot of chiefs in our companies and he’s a great guy and I’m internally grateful for him. He pulled me, you know, when I lost everything. And I mean, when I, when I say I lost everything, I lost everything. My family, I

Speaker 1 (30m 53s): Remember,

Speaker 3 (30m 53s): I remember my family, my business, my cars, my watches, anything, anything that was valued. But you know, obviously the only thing I like, you know, at that time I cared about where my kids and Sure. I focused on them and, and, and you know, he, it was a very dark place, I’ll just say that. And John Baumgartner jc he, he pulled me out of that by giving me a, an opportunity to come to work and, and move to Vegas after my children had empty nested me.

And I’m eternally grateful for that. And he has my undying loyalty and gratitude and, you know, the porn star platinum and Transa. I will, I hope to always be a part of it. And, and as long as they’ll have me, I will do it and I will do it to my, the best of my ability and for no other reason for that. Yeah. And you know, I really like it and I like the, the direction that they’re heading. They’re moving away from the solo girl sites and moving more to a network site where we’re doing paid trade as opposed to just trade.

We’re, we’re not relying on the girls for updating a website. We’re, we’re going also to full paid. We’re doing some cam stuff again, which is exciting for me. We, I bet. Yeah. We’re doing a black label. I, I guess, you know, without giving away too much, it’s very similar to a very large company that’s out there. But we’re gonna do it on a smaller scale of course. But it’s, it’s modeled after something else. But, you know, I guess, but it is going to be exciting and fun for me once it gets up and running.

Speaker 1 (32m 36s): When will that be?

Speaker 3 (32m 38s): We probably by the, maybe by the time this airs. I, you know, I really hope, you know, it’s a, it’s a process right now. I’m still trying to make the adjustments on taking over production because that has been thrown on my lap and that’s not something that I normally had done. So they, for they, fortunately they gave me an assistant to work with and to dump some things off of that I would normally do and to enable me some additional time to do content. But it’s kind of tough because I’m so personable and our, our household and, and Bambi and I, the way we run both business, our business and our relationship with porn star platinum and trans erotica is that, you know, we have, we have talent staying at our house all the time.

You know, whether because we, when we invite people to shoot with us, we invite them to stay with us a lot of times too. Yeah. Because it’s a nice safe place. They don’t, they don’t have to spend money on hotels when they travel and things like that. Right. So, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s one of those things where it’s great and on the other side you never really have any time for yourself, but Sure. So that, that adjustment’s been great for me and keeps me going. But, and that’s probably the biggest change for Porn Star Platinum and Transa that’s coming down the pike is our focus more on the quality of content, the, and returning our, the quality of our name back to it.

Sure. We went through a rough patch where we, we, you know, we had some issues with content being delivered on in a timely manner. We no longer have those issues. Okay. And we’ve, we’ve, we’ve increased and improved the quality of the content, the shoot houses that are available to us and just the overall way we treat people and we’re changing the culture of the company, you know, one performer at a time, as I say.

Speaker 1 (34m 35s): Awesome. Now how are you feeling about the overall future of networks like Porn Star, Platinum and Transa?

Speaker 3 (34m 44s): Yeah, it’s gonna be an interesting couple of years. I think as the economy, I think that’s where it’s gonna hurt the worst. Right. In my opinion, it’s going, we’re gonna see much like we did in the 2008 to 2012 range. I think we’re gonna see a drastic reduction in the amount of programs that are smaller programs that survive. I do think porn star platinum and Transa is ripe for survival.

They’ll, they’re not going anywhere are, are our cost of production versus the, you know, revenues I think are really good. And our ratios, our, our conversion ratios are phenomenal. It’s just a matter of getting enough the traffic obviously, but as the economy is going to test everything. So Yeah. And as our, as the credit cards start to get maxed out and we, our rebuilds start to decline and, you know, those types of things or people don’t, are reluctant to break out their credit cards or have less expends.

But there’s, you know, what we, what we did learn from 2008 to 2012 is that women will never give up their hair and getting their hairs and nail done. Right. And men will never give up their porn. This is true. So those are the two things that are pretty much economy proof and thank God we’re in the business. We are and I’m not in the hair business, so, but I do have a friend who is, and I almost wish I was, cause that guy’s a billionaire now and, but Oh wow.

And we met in this, in this industry, but in 2000, I think it was like 2010, he got into the hair, hair, organic hair systems and stuff, so Wow. Yeah. Mole to him cuz

Speaker 1 (36m 42s): Hey baby, whatever works. Right. But

Speaker 3 (36m 44s): I think, yeah, I think that’s the biggest challenge for us. And I think the future, you know, is gonna be a challenge for the next few years as we fight through the economy, economic issues.

Speaker 1 (36m 54s): Sure. I agree. Now what’s next for Dan Ho?

Speaker 3 (36m 59s): Continue to continue to be diversified. I, I really looking forward to this project with the cam once we get it going as a personal level, but the, just the continue to strive, go through the growing pains that we’re, we’re already going through. We’ve planned ahead for, you know, I’ve been in this, I’ve been in the business a while and been self-employed my entire life and I learned a lot of valuable lessons when I was younger regarding forecasting and planning for growth so that when you do reach that growing point, you don’t tip over.

Yeah. And so we planned ahead for this and we’re in a great shape to, and we’re, we’re fairly expandable very quickly. So that’s really where I’m at is right now we’re in growth mode on everything. Whether it’s porn, star, platinum, trans erotica, razor edge talent. We’re, we’re just blowing up and, and doing everything we can to expand there

Speaker 1 (38m 1s): With so many more of them out there now with all the creators. What advice would you give to performers today?

Speaker 3 (38m 9s): Stay true to yourself. You know, you have a lot of power, but it’s not as easy as you think. You know, with great power comes great responsibility. Right? Before the responsibility was always on the companies. They had to hire you, they had to pay you, they had to fly you out, they had to do all this. Well now you’re doing a lot of that yourself. You’re the one that’s being, being the creator. You’re the one who’s being the producer. You’re the one who sometimes is being the editor or Yeah.

The marketer. You have to do all of those things or, or, or hire for it. So, you know, and at the same time you want to try to have a life and in quality of life. So Sure. My advice to them is find a balance. You know, that there are, there are people out there that can help them consult with them, that can, that can do some of the things and take some things off their hands. There’s obviously a lot of things that they have to do personally, but it’s a lot of work. It’s not easy, it wasn’t easy for companies to, to blow up and make a lot of money.

And it’s not necessarily easy for a performer to do it, even with help sometimes it, it’s still work. And if they’re expecting to not work, they’re not going to be successful. So I would would go into that with the mindset of, hey, keep your work ethic in check and really, really buckle down and learn. If not learn, then find the people around you that are successful in what they do that where you need them and apply that.

But be true to yourself and trust your instincts, you

Speaker 1 (39m 48s): Know? Okay. Now what do you think about AVN and X Biz and really all the shows finally returning to live formats?

Speaker 3 (39m 56s): Hey, not only that, did you see the dates for AVN

Speaker 1 (40m 0s): Dates? I haven’t noticed, No.

Speaker 3 (40m 2s): They, they went back to co corresponding with ces.

Speaker 1 (40m 6s): Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (40m 7s): I literally just noticed that today cuz they sent out an

Speaker 1 (40m 9s): Email. Oh, it’s later.

Speaker 3 (40m 10s): It’s no, it’s at the same time.

Speaker 1 (40m 12s): No, but I mean, it’s later than it was last year that the, was last year.

Speaker 3 (40m 18s): Yeah. Ex I’m talking about AVN and I love the fact that Xbi is doing the X three. You know, I love, I love that organization. Absolutely amazing.

Speaker 1 (40m 30s): Doing some nice work on, on their shows for,

Speaker 3 (40m 32s): They always have, you know, they, the a the a plus people, phenomenal. And I’m glad to see them be the, they were the first last year and ran their successful show. Unfortunately, I didn’t make it because of family issues, but I, I absolutely love the fact that we’re going back to live shows. And I love the fact that, that, you know, when I first started in avn it was AVN and ces, you know, even as, as amateurs and, you know, they would have all these business guys come over and it really kind of made a difference.

And I’m hoping that going back to that will, because they kind of avoided each other for a while and it really changed the whole dynamic of avn and I’m kind of hoping that it, it restores some of that glory Yeah. Of that particular show. And I like the venue, you know, Vegas World or what is it? No, Resorts World is a phenomenal building. I’m very excited about it. And, and at edX biz as well. And this year going to Europe, I, you know, I plan on, you know, going to the European shows.

Speaker 1 (41m 43s): Oh, are you gonna be at, are you gonna be at Tes?

Speaker 3 (41m 45s): I’m, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do more over the next year in Europe and great,

Speaker 1 (41m 50s): I’ll see you

Speaker 3 (41m 51s): There. I I’ve still look back to getting back to there and I, I still wanna hit up porno Dan in Budapest and stuff and catch up with him. Sure. Yeah. Oh, he’s awesome. I missed that. What a great

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Guy. Oh, he’s a, he’s a wild man, but he’s a, he’s an amazing guy. I love following him on, on Facebook and seeing him with all his girls. Right. He’s, he is one of a kind, There’s no two ways about it by the way. One, one correction. Yeah. X three is a great show. I think the first Creator show was actually why Not Community? Which is an amazing show as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They, they were the first on that, on that format and X business followed now and I, I heard great things about both events.

Well Dan, hey, I’d like to thank you for being back again on Adult Site Broker talk and I hope we’ll have a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 3 (42m 42s): You bet. Look forward to it. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (42m 44s): Thanks for being here. My broker tip today is part nine of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about what information to provide a potential buyer. Here’s more. Tell them what’s special or different about your site, How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all the websites you’re selling in addition to any domains that come along with the sale, is there anything that adds value to the sale? Provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer any information.

Have them sign a non-disclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh I don’t know, adult site Broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours and they know how to deal with buyers. They will also negotiate the terms of the sale such as price and any payment terms before closing the sale. Find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected.

We have those resources of course. Let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sales price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time if the profit is taking a nose dive.

We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with SafferMaster and Lady Petra of Slubb USA. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Dan Hogue. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Jay Kopita of YNot.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now, let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a Growing Sex Doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords.

As a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for Sex Dolls on Google. Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner is developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third party sites. It currently has no employees.

Aside from the owner who works 10 to 15 hours a week on the business, SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field. Only 2.72 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker talk is Jay Copia of Why Not Group, AKA l aj, and he’s also known as Harry J. Thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 47s): Hey, thanks for having me,

Speaker 1 (2m 48s): Bruce. Now, why not has been around since 1996. At that time, their goal was to provide early online developers of adult websites with a central hub where they could network and promote ethical business practices in what was then a largely lawless internet. The company has changed ownership several times since its early days, eventually moving its core presence to the domain. Why not.com and branching out with additional services for businesses today? The company, Why Not Group offers a variety of B2B services for adult companies.

Why not also operates the blog, Why Not Europe, which focuses on adult business news coming out of the EU in early 2016. The company added, Why not shoot me a photo journalism site and collaboration with veteran adult industry photographer and my buddy Buster Brown. Why not is also has, why not Cam an online magazine that offers tips and advice to CAM models in addition to its well-read blogs and resource sites. Why not Group also operates popular industry events.

The well attended Why Not Awards formal event takes place each year in Prague and collaboration with the Tes Affiliates Summit. The Why Not Awards offers the adult industry an opportunity to recognize the biggest achievers in the adult online sector. Why not also owns and operates. Why not mail a hosted email marketing and delivery platform that provides companies with a powerful platform for driving email marketing success? They also have the Why not CAM awards and why Not Community in Hollywood.

That’s community with an A. This year’s edition is October 10th through the 13th, and this year they added another event in Arizona. The Why Not Reunion. So Jake, who should be attending? Why not community?

Speaker 2 (4m 38s): Wow. First of all, thank you for covering all that. Hopefully everyone

Speaker 1 (4m 42s): Was for your, for your commercial.

Speaker 2 (4m 43s): Yeah, hopefully everyone was at home taking notes about all that stuff, so I’m sure

Speaker 1 (4m 47s): I was,

Speaker 2 (4m 47s): Yeah. Anybody with any kind of involvement whatsoever in the webcam or the content creator industries, whether you’ve been around for many years or your brand new or anything in between? We’d like to get all performers attending our show in Hollywood. Anybody that works for any of these platforms or any kind of service that can feed into webcams or content creation should also attend. You know, we’ve got affiliate passes, we’ve got Cam Performer and Clip Performer passes, we’ve also got executive passes.

So really just a whole business to business show where anybody with any kind of involvement in any of these industries should attend

Speaker 1 (5m 28s): This events come a long way in a few years.

Speaker 2 (5m 31s): Yeah, we were tripped up obviously because of the pandemic. We were just starting to get some momentum in everything. But yeah, compared to what we had in 2019 to what we’re doing this year and hopefully what our attendance is gonna look like, we’re definitely trending in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (5m 45s): Yeah, for sure. It’s become a really big thing among the creator industry for sure.

Speaker 2 (5m 53s): Yeah. Who

Speaker 1 (5m 54s): Should be attending the Why Not Came awards?

Speaker 2 (5m 56s): Obviously, anybody who got a nomination, if they have the time and the means to make it out to la, they’re gonna be treated to an amazing night. I mean, it’s the Oscar’s night for, for, for Cams and creators. Anybody who’s been nominated automatically gets a VIP seat. All the, all the companies that are sponsoring, even the companies that are not. We have, we’ve got balcony seats, we’ve got an after party, we’ve got entertainment, open bar dinner, red carpet, everything.

So literally, aside from all the people that got nominated, anybody who’s in the industry whatsoever, they’re welcome to attend. I mean, we’ve got very low priced seats in the balcony and lots of room to put them. So it’s really just, we are not gonna turn anyone away who’s in the industry. If you buy a ticket, you can get

Speaker 1 (6m 46s): In. I understand it’s quite an experience.

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): Yeah, it is. We do our best to take care of everyone. A lot of the unsung heroes in the industry who really don’t get their due at the other shows, or they’re kind of, you know, treated like cattle or just kind of, you know, moved around. We’re not like that. We, we want everyone to go there feeling like, Wow, this is our night and we’re finally being taken care of.

Speaker 1 (7m 6s): This is really the original content creator show and awards, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (7m 15s): Yeah, I mean, I don’t think anybody was paying as much attention to Cam Stars and creators specifically like we were when we launched this back in 2018. A lot of times that industry was kind of included as like an all so ran, so to speak. Yeah. When all the porn stars were being awarded. When there’s nothing wrong with that, but I mean, you know, you’ve got the porn industry and then you’ve got the creator and cam industry, and we decided to focus solely on that. And you know, it’s served us well and others have more or less taken note in followed suit.

Speaker 1 (7m 50s): Sure. Well, they say imitation is the greatest form of flattery. The whole content creator concept. Obviously with the advent of only fans and all of the other platforms, it’s become massive. Absolutely massive. You guys seem to kind of see it coming, but talk about the whole content creator industry and what it’s become.

Speaker 2 (8m 19s): Well, I mean, essentially way, way back in the day, the people that controlled the internet were the people that owned the pay sites and ran the affiliate programs. You know, those are the people that controlled everything. And I mean, we’ve seen a shift over the years and the models and the creators who have tons of influence, who have tons of followers and are influencers, you know, a lot of these people are the ones who really run the show. And I mean, when you’re out there and you’re making six figures and I mean, and even some cases seven figures a year, it’s, you know, it’s crazy.

So yeah, you know, it’s, it’s really been a game changer. And I mean, I think the pandemic played into a part of it as well, because a lot of times Sure. People needed, you know, needed work and they saw what was going on, and anybody with enough knowledge of the internet and what their audience could be like and Tenacity can, can carve out their own, their own path and their own fan base.

Speaker 1 (9m 16s): And the creators, the performers for the first time have really taken control of the industry.

Speaker 2 (9m 24s): Yeah, that’s a fair assessment. It’s been that way for a number of years, even, I think it was that way even before the Pandemic, but people really started taking notice over the last couple of years for sure, that this is how things are moving.

Speaker 1 (9m 38s): So what makes Why Nots nomination process better than other shows?

Speaker 2 (9m 44s): Well, I’m not a hundred percent sure how the others do it, but I do see that a lot of times they’ll accept 10 nominees per category, some cases 15 or even 20 nominees per category. Yeah, I mean, at that point it doesn’t even become about the nomination because what are your chances of winning when you’re among that many for the same category? Sure. You know, we limit to five per category. So getting nominated is truly an elite. It’s truly elite that way. I mean, our process, we require all potential nominees during the preop phase.

It’s either accept or reject nomination suggestions that come their way. So no one is gonna end up in a category that they don’t want to be. I mean, they have the full control to reject everything that comes their way except for the one category. And if they get into that category, great. If they don’t, then they don’t. But at the end of the day, our, our screening process and the fact that we limit it, so we make it much, much more about the performer and their nomination and a lot less about us, I think really differentiates us from all of our competitors.

Speaker 1 (10m 46s): Talk about the voting process too, because I’m not gonna accuse anybody of playing favorites in any of the awards, but there’s that inference out there. It’s really something when you guys have an awards event, it’s, it’s for real.

Speaker 2 (11m 9s): Yes. Well, you know, the thing that might look like it’s weighted in one direction or another is that there’s just certain platforms out there that are very, very engaged with us. When you have, you know, 2000 people buying for 125 nomination spots, a lot of people are not gonna get nominated. Sure. And the thing is, is that, you know, there’s a select three or four platforms where, you know, the owners and the people who run the platform and their models, whether it’s you know, top ones or new ones, they’re really engaged with us.

They’re engaged with the process, they’re paying attention to what we’re doing, and hundreds of them are trying to get in. So naturally more are gonna be nominated out of that. Just when you look at the sheer numbers, you know, And then once the voting starts, you know, obviously we have a, a process there as well where people can vote, but they need to be signed up for a why not ID account. And we’re able to, you know, tabulate everything and see where it’s coming from and, and all that good stuff. But yeah, I mean, it’s just, when you, when you look at it that way, that’s, that’s how it would appear.

Speaker 1 (12m 16s): You’re very involved with the creator and Cam platforms. Which of these platforms, which of the newer platforms have you been most impressed with?

Speaker 2 (12m 28s): Well, I would have to say I was really impressed when Cherry TV came around. They, you know, were vying for a market that really, I wouldn’t say it’s saturated. I mean, there’s always room for more, but, you know, jumping into the freemium market and trying to compete with, you know, some of the biggest players out there like, like Chatter, baer, strip chat. I mean, it’s very difficult feat. You have to put a lot of money into marketing. You have to do a lot of things in order to be noticed and be taken seriously. So I was really impressed with them. Sure.

You know, Sugar bounce, I’m, I’m impressed with them and how, you know, they’re involving all different facets with their platform and as well are using crypto. You know, it’s, it’s tough to get into the market nowadays as opposed to, you know, creating a white label and basically working directly with any specific platform. So I would’ve to say those two have, you know, stuck out for me.

Speaker 1 (13m 23s): Okay. So what events does, why not attend and how does it help your business?

Speaker 2 (13m 29s): We tend to go to any show that has given us a return or has a proven track record of me being able to make sales and us getting the kind of recognition and FaceTime with people that we’re already doing business with. So to that end, you know, I’m always gonna be going totes the European Center. Sure. Tes Philly conferences in Europe. I’ll always make a point of going to AVN and Internets just because those have been really good for me for FaceTime and meeting business owners and performers that I’ve either worked with or I’m friends with or have some sort of business association with.

Right. And then as well, the exotic expos, we’re regular partners with those guys. We exhibited every show. I get a lot of FaceTime with a lot of creators and performers at there at that show. And I always managed to land sales as well that you know, more more than pay for the trips. So the exotic expos have really been good for our brand and you know, it also separates us from our competitors in that regard too.

Speaker 1 (14m 31s): Exotic is an interesting one, and I can’t say I’ve ever attended one. I’ve heard a lot about them from people like you and people like Buster who we mentioned earlier. How much of a B2B element does Exotica have for somebody like say myself,

Speaker 2 (14m 45s): It really doesn’t have that kind of an element there. You have to go out looking for it. The whole show is designed entirely for businesses that promote some sort of lifestyle product, whether it’s novels or Cams or swingers. I mean, it’s just got a little bit of everything there and it’s obviously designed for all the fans that come into the show. That’s where the bulk of the attendance is. It’s all for the consumer. My thing is, is that I go to all the booths and I talk to the owners, I talk to lots of models there and you know, I get them interested as well in knowing more about why not in our brand.

Plus, we get a lot of traffic at our booth. I usually have anywhere from 10 to 15 different performers who are signing or doing autographs or photographs or just basically hustling and representing at my booth. It’s a, it’s a fun place to be. It’s safe for them and you know, it’s good for their brand and it’s good for mine.

Speaker 1 (15m 42s): So it sounds like with, with a lot of companies being there, it it’s, it’s b2b. If you make it b2b

Speaker 2 (15m 50s): Yeah. You can make anything b2b. The thing is, is I just wouldn’t recommend anybody that’s, you know, going there that’s, you know, looking for business to go at all the booths and solicit them directly. I mean, something like that. It’s just, you know, I mean people are paying for booths. They’re trying to sell their product. I will only go in and actively solicit someone if they wanna be solicited to. Oh and usually, yeah. And usually I will find them. I mean, it’s just, for example, when I was in Miami, I met the guys who own and operate Motor Bunny, you know, the interactive sex toy.

Right. And these guys founded the company, Brooks and Caleb over there, really, really cool guys. They gave me a demo, showed me the product and everything. You know, got some really good info about that. And you know, discussed with them at the show, you know, about what we’re doing with why not and everything. And I could see that they were interested in knowing more. And obviously the model reach is huge. And how would you know it? They’re my after party sponsor for the Why Not Came awards on October 13th.

Speaker 1 (16m 50s): Talk about North American shows. You know, it, it used to be there were more, it used to be there was an inter next in Miami, there was the Phoenix Forum. Even the shows that used to be adult only now seem to be catering to more than just adult. Why is that?

Speaker 2 (17m 11s): The people that run these shows just, maybe it’s not as, it is a lot of reasons. It’s not as fun for them as it used to be. It’s certainly not as profitable as for them as it used to be. You know, the old webmaster B2B shows used to be a gold mine because there were so many companies that were making money hand over fist and they were interested in sponsoring all these different events. Right. You know, a lot of ’em have either gone by the wayside or they’re just not interested in spending that kind of money anymore, or they just aren’t really interested in going to these kinds of shows.

I mean, the, the old days are gone and as show organizers, you know, you gotta go where the money is. You gotta go where you know your fan base is gonna be and where it’s gonna make the most sense. Sure. And you know, I wouldn’t say that, you know, all of them have given up, but if it’s not working out for them, obviously the smart thing to do is to just, you know, not do those shows anymore. And unfortunately, there’s some companies out there still doing events that really don’t bring anything to the table. They don’t bring the numbers and it kind of poisons it for the rest of us.

Because if people only go to those shows and they see it as being not really that big and really not that good for their business, they’re gonna kind of associate all events like that. And then just, you know, if things aren’t working for you, go for a plan B and stop doing what you’re doing because it doesn’t help anyone.

Speaker 1 (18m 30s): Now you’ve been in the business for a long time, Jay, How has the sales aspect, because that’s primarily what you handle and why not, How has that changed on a B2B level from the time you’ve started?

Speaker 2 (18m 45s): I think it’s got a lot more difficult over the years. A lot of the sales that I made back in the day were much more out of necessity for the person that I was selling to. I didn’t have the kinds of relationships with people back then that I do now. Sure. Much of the sales that I’m able to secure now is because people already know who I am and they know what my brand is about. Right. Or they’re at least familiar seeing what my brand is. A lot of times it’s very, very relationship driven.

I get more sales because of people knowing who I am or what I am. Sure. Which is open doors for me. And it makes it little bit easier, but it’s still, I mean, it’s a grind. I’m, you know, never just sitting back on my laurels and be like, you know, things are, things are easy. I’m always, always hustling. Always.

Speaker 1 (19m 34s): Yeah. I’m a good example. I mean, I started advertising with you guys because I know you, I know Connor. I know why not. And I believe in the brand and I believe in what you guys do. So I support it.

Speaker 2 (19m 46s): Yeah. Wow. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (19m 48s): Talk about also the, the changes in the adult industry since you started. Obviously it was a totally different game Yeah. When you first got into it.

Speaker 2 (19m 59s): Yeah. Well, I mean, back when I first started in 2000, I mean, I had no clue about anything. I mean, there were people that were already multi multimillionaires from, you know, launching pay sites. Right. Affiliate programs from years earlier. I mean, it was a pretty lawless place. You know, you’d meet people for the first time at events or wherever and a lot of times you’d go an entire career without knowing anybody’s real name. You would just know their board name, the nickname. You’d never know what they look like because back then no one was using any kind of facial anything to, to associate themselves with any kind of what was considered social media back then.

The barrier of entry was a lot different back then as well. There’s always gonna be unethical players out there. Sure. I just think it was a lot easier to get into the industry way back when and you know, scam someone out of their money and then, you know, disappear and then reinvent yourself and then come back like nothing happened. Those days are long gone, I think.

Speaker 1 (20m 56s): Oh yeah. Well, social media, how has that changed the adult industry?

Speaker 2 (21m 1s): It’s really leveled the playing field for a lot of people. You know, Used to be, I mean, just social media in general. I mean it, it used to be that the people that were in power and the people that were in charge had all the power and you know, now anybody within internet connection and you know, a little bit of time can go out there and, and make noise or they can carve their own career. They can do really anything. I mean, it’s also opened up a lot of possibilities at the same time. I mean, now you can promote to a larger group of people.

Things are much, much quicker. It’s, you know, for better or worse made promotion and selling possible for everyone.

Speaker 1 (21m 42s): Absolutely. Yeah. So how did the why not awards in ProGo?

Speaker 2 (21m 48s): Oh man. So it was our 12th year and it was Wow. Literally. Yeah. It’s one of our best ones. I mean, I more or less use the same formula year after year, but this year, you know, I was determined to keep things on a certain time schedule. Technically everything went well. I mean, a lot of the things that you kind of take for granted was the food good, was the deliveries of all my necessities. There was everything in perfect working order. I did my co-host do a great job. I mean, pretty much the answer to everything was yes this year.

And I was very happy with the results. And yeah, I mean the show, the show was continuing on after all these years.

Speaker 1 (22m 29s): The coordination of things like the Why Not Awards, both in Prague, in la that’s a tremendous undertaking. And you guys are, you guys are still a small team. How do you guys pull it off? There’s only so many hours in the day.

Speaker 2 (22m 45s): I know, I know. It’s tough. I mean, believe me, Connor and I could both use literally two assistance each, if not more. The, the profit margin, you know, for a lot of what we do isn’t huge. So we’ve also learned over the years to be as streamlined as we possibly can. Connor and I have both faced some serious adversity over the years and some major, major hurdles both inside the industry and out, both inside our company and out. So we’ve just, we’ve learned to be adapters survivors, all that stuff.

And you know, if we’re able to continue doing it, we will. I mean, if we start getting to the point where the money is just so great, you know, we’ll hire an additional team. But until then, you know, we’re, we’re pretty content to be doing things the way that we have been.

Speaker 1 (23m 38s): Now, both you and Connor started as employees of the company and worked your way up to the executive level and then eventually became owners. Talk about that journey.

Speaker 2 (23m 50s): It was crazy and extremely improbable. Yeah, I mean, Connor and I both, well Connor started in the industry in like 97. I started out in 2000. Why Not Was owned by another company, became its own entity in 2001. At that point I was, I was in charge of PR and trade shows. Connor was a staff writer. He would later go on to be in charge of all of the news and written content on the site. And I was in charge of all of our sales forward a couple more years after that, as the industry’s changing before Tube sites hit, the owners of the company just weren’t really adapting, Seemed like they’d kind of lost interest in the company, decided they wanted to fight each other over ownership of it all.

And then when all was said and done, we ended up getting one bought out and then we found an investor and got the other bought out. And Connor and I basically started driving from the backseat in like 2007, 2008 and saw that, you know, we’d lost a lot of ground and we needed to do something to save the company. And then tube sites hit and then the recession hit and all hell broke loose from like 2008 to 2010. And when all was said and done, you know, we were able to have an investor help us out. We made a lot of great decisions.

You know, we made a few mistakes along the way, of course. Sure. But the journey at any given time could have just ended because the amount of stress and the amount of bullshit that we had to endure during that time. I mean, there were days where I would just get up and I’d be like, You know what? I can’t do this. I just can’t anymore. It’s ridiculous. And any san person at that point would’ve realized, you know what, this is just too much. But you know,

Speaker 1 (25m 23s): We know better. We know better about you Jay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 26s): Maybe, you know, you get to that point where you just keep fighting and you keep doing that. You know, to just call it quits at that point would really negate everything that you’ve been working towards. Right. You know, And then sure enough, we were able to get to the point where we bought out the investor. So it was all completely worth it. Honestly, I consider it one of the better success stories in this industry.

Speaker 1 (25m 45s): I agree. And you guys, you guys really have changed with the times of all the companies out there. Most of the other companies out there have pretty much stayed the same or stayed pretty much the same. The one thing I notice about you guys is you’ve shifted and you’ve adapted and you’ve changed with the times and you’ve added products as the times have warranted it.

Speaker 2 (26m 11s): Absolutely. I mean, you have to, unless you have a product that’s gonna be in demand all the freaking time, you have to constantly be looking for new revenue streams. And you have to be shifting and paying attention to what’s trending and what changes out there. I mean, you know, you think about it way, way back when, look at how big my space was. And they were only big for like a year or two or something like that. Yeah, yeah. And they completely disappeared. I mean, you think about Facebook, Facebook has been big for, you know, a very considerable amount of time. Sure. But there is gonna come a day where Facebook is completely a relic.

It’s just not gonna be used by Don its way anymore. Yeah. It’s gonna be replaced. I mean it’s definitely been on its way for quite some time, but it’s still huge. There’s no question about it. Yep. But you know, unless you’re something like that where you don’t plan on working beyond 10 years at the most and selling when it’s worth millions and millions and then getting out, then you know, you have to focus on what’s working for you and what isn’t. And you know, more or less kind of predicting what’s going to work. And that’s what we’ve been doing.

Speaker 1 (27m 15s): Yeah. And unfortunately those acquisition strategies in the adult industry aren’t necessarily the same as mainstream.

Speaker 2 (27m 23s): Right. Yeah. There’s, you know, lots of other factors at play.

Speaker 1 (27m 27s): Absolutely. So tell us a little more about your experience with Exotica and how people can join. Why not there?

Speaker 2 (27m 36s): Basically, you know, it’s funny, I’ve got a core group of models that I like to work with that have really shown themselves to be just hard workers. Great attitude, very dependable show up at the booth on time. They’re out there hustling. They’re good for my brand. And you know, good for working with them. They can always, you know, perspective Mons can always reach out to me and ask. I will say though that we’re definitely over full for New Jersey for this year. And I’m already pretty much at capacity for DC as well.

But you know, they can always reach out to me and you know, who knows.

Speaker 1 (28m 14s): Talk about your relationship with the models, because I’m thinking back to a consulting client we had, and we had a dialogue about when I asked you who would be a good model as a spokes model. And I was kind of surprised, although when I think back about it, I, I understand because of your philosophy, you guys were really, really careful wanting to know what we wanted this person for, how much we were gonna pay the person.

Yep. And, and talk a little bit about your relationship with the models. Cause I found that fascinating.

Speaker 2 (28m 51s): Well, I mean, because I know so many, there isn’t really any one standard, I guess, relationship that I have with any of them. You know, at the end of the day, I take anything and everything as a professional business relationship first and foremost. Sure. You know, many of the models that I’m friendly with belong to platforms that are very important to me, very important to my brand. And I mean, you know, not all models are created the same. I mean, some I know are, are more interested in, you know, X way of doing business.

Others might be more interested in y some might be interested in affiliate opportunities, some might be interested in ambassador, some, I mean, I just know they’re gonna be very reliable. Others, you know, might be interested in it for a month and then they’ll wanna move on and do something different. Yeah. So, you know, I kind of take note of everyone who I’m friendly with and you know, when I meet someone new or I meet someone who’s been around for a long time and we just haven’t crossed paths or had caused a new business together. I mean, I pay attention to a lot of details, you know, and I mean for, I hate saying this, but for lack of another way of saying it, because of my age and the fact that I’ve been around for a long time, you know, I am kind of in some ways looked upon like as a father figure.

But you know, there’s nothing I can

Speaker 1 (30m 8s): You hate. I could tell by your voice You hate that Jay.

Speaker 2 (30m 11s): It depends. I mean, Yeah, no, it’s the double edged sword, you know?

Speaker 1 (30m 15s): That’s funny. Yes. Oh yes. We are older, Jay. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (30m 20s): We

Speaker 1 (30m 20s): Are. We’ve known each other a very long time and we were, we were pretty damn young when we met, but we’re older now. Talk about your newest event. Why not Reunion? I was a sponsor this year. Yeah. And in the first year and it was, it was fantastic. Talk about 2023.

Speaker 2 (30m 42s): So we’re definitely gonna do one in 2023, but it’s not gonna probably be in Phoenix. Reason being, here’s the thing, we were originally gonna do this at the Tempe Mission Palms Hotel, which is where the Phoenix Forum took place for like 16 or 15 years. They were showing us every sign that they didn’t want us there. So we ended up changing hotels weeks before the show, just out of comfort and security for our attendees as well as ourselves and our owns sanity. And it went off without a hitch. I mean, we had a great show. Yes. But we did not get invited back and for for no reason.

I mean, there was no problems. There was no nothing either.

Speaker 1 (31m 18s): I probably shouldn’t have gotten naked. I’m sorry. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (31m 20s): Yeah. Thank you Bruce. I mean, essentially, you know, I just don’t wanna deal with that kind of nonsense. I don’t wanna have to sit here and pound the pavement and prove to a hotel that, you know, we’re a business event just like any other. Yes. You know, and just having to jump through hoops and deal with bullshit. So it’s, we’re gonna be, we’re very interested in doing one in 2023, but we’re looking at doing it in a different city and probably in a place that, you know, is at least familiar to the bulk of the attendees.

Speaker 1 (31m 49s): So, and maybe and maybe not so conservative.

Speaker 2 (31m 52s): Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (31m 53s): You can say it.

Speaker 2 (31m 55s): Well, you know, obviously we’re looking at possibly either, you know, Vegas, possibly the Miami area. We’re, we’re just not sure yet.

Speaker 1 (32m 3s): Yeah, Interesting. Okay.

Speaker 2 (32m 6s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32m 7s): So what are some of the fun and entertainment highlights planned for the why not community and why not CAM awards?

Speaker 2 (32m 16s): So we’ve got all kinds of great stuff going on. I mean, the show’s gonna start October 10th. We’re gonna have, you know, our typical speed networking to kind of kick things off. We wanna have a self-defense class going on that evening. And then we’re gonna have an opening night cocktail party that cams.com is sponsoring. This is gonna be going on at the hotel and it’s gonna be, you know, our ds. It’s gonna be be a great mixer for everybody just getting into town. Then on October 11th, we’ve got a full day of seminars.

We’ve got the meat market, we’ve got safer work photography going on. We’ve got all kinds of fun stuff. That evening we just announced it that we’re gonna be doing a live rock band cosplay, karaoke night. So

Speaker 1 (32m 59s): Yeah, saw that.

Speaker 2 (32m 60s): Yeah, we’re gonna have a live rock band play. They’ve got hundreds and hundreds of songs and we are encouraging everybody to dress up for an early Halloween. This is gonna be, I, I’m still looking at getting it sponsored right now. I mean, you know, it’s something that we feel is really important to have. It’s just gonna be a great fun time. No one else is doing anything like this. Then on the 12th our entertainment sponsor for the show is strip chat and we’re taking over the entire rooftop pool of the W Hollywood Hotel and yeah, it’s gonna be an amazing night.

We’ve got the pool, we’ve got, you know, there’s gonna be food and drink going on up there and we’ve got the pool to all hours. You know, there’ll be heat lamps in case it gets a little chilly out. So this is something that we did a few years ago and we’re gonna revive it, but it’s gonna be even better this year. And then of course on the 13th, the red carpet starts at five 30 Pacific time and then the wine came awards starts promptly at eight 30 and it’s all gonna be live streamed.

Speaker 1 (33m 58s): Very cool. So Jay, you grew your hair out during the pandemic. I was kind of curious, why haven’t you cut it yet?

Speaker 2 (34m 7s): You know, it’s funny, it got to the point where it’s just like, it’s become such a part of me and it’s become like part of my brand. Even the fact that I still have, you know, the majority of it. I mean, yes, it’s definitely thinning on top, but the fact that I have the majority of it’s still, and it’s become a thing and it’s certainly become a bone of contention for a number of people as well. Makes me wanna cut it less and less. I mean, yeah, sure, it’s a pain in the ass to be sure. But you know, I figure at this point, once it’s gone, it’s gone. I mean, I’m kind of at a point in my life where I’m just probably not gonna do it again unless I, I, I get delirious and I’m unable to make decisions for myself.

So yeah, it’s just, it’s become a thing and I don’t know, I mean I enjoy it, so I figure, you know what, I can do whatever I want. Why not?

Speaker 1 (34m 54s): Why not?

Speaker 2 (34m 55s): Why not?

Speaker 1 (34m 56s): Is there gonna be a live, why not summit now that everyone is traveling again?

Speaker 2 (35m 1s): That’s a good question. You know, I know.

Speaker 1 (35m 3s): That’s why I asked it.

Speaker 2 (35m 4s): Yeah, thanks. So yeah, I mean, sure. When we launched it in 2020, we were the first North American online only adult trade show and we had nearly 2000 registrations that year. It was a huge success. We did it again in 2021 and 2022. We did it twice in 2020 actually. There’s still a lot of people out there that wanna attend trade shows but can’t either because they just don’t wanna travel or they don’t have the means to, or they’re just have social anxiety and don’t want to.

So yeah, the likelihood of us continuing on with why not Summit is obviously very high, but doing it like a two or a three day event like that, I don’t necessarily see us putting as much of the resources in time for doing it much beyond like a day or two.

Speaker 1 (35m 54s): Hmm. So would it be, would it be a live event or, or just virtual?

Speaker 2 (35m 59s): Oh, it would be virtual. I mean the why not Summit is it is virtual only. Yeah. Okay. So we’re gonna keep that. Why not Summit Virtual? Just I don’t think we’re gonna make it a three day event because we’re just not gonna pull the numbers that we have.

Speaker 1 (36m 12s): Yeah, yeah, that’s true.

Speaker 2 (36m 14s): Yeah. People just don’t get excited about that as much of

Speaker 1 (36m 17s): A, Yeah, the, I don’t think the appetite is there as much for Virtual Summit. It says it was during the pandemic, obviously people were just glad to see anybody besides their family. Exactly. What are some individual things you’re working on? Personally?

Speaker 2 (36m 32s): Doing a little bit of consultation here and there for, for various models. I’m, you know, doing some affiliate type opportunities, doing a lot of connections for businesses with individuals. And I’m also assisting with ainsley’s micro crush.com clothing line.

Speaker 1 (36m 54s): Hmm, cool. Yeah. Now I noticed you have a model directory now why not? Talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (37m 1s): Yeah, Connor put together this great thing that is connected directly with our awards as well as our events in general. And it’s just a real simple process. You go to why not id.com, you can create your own model account and if you’re nominated for anything, it can go directly to your voting page. If you’re at an event coming up, you can RSVP through it, you can do any kind of polls that we push your way to get, you know, information for upcoming events.

And it’s just something great that you can just share with your fans. It’s all safe for work photos and it’s a directory like you would expect a directory to, to work, but it’s, you know, just as much professional as it is. Anything else

Speaker 1 (37m 45s): I gotta tell you, I use your professional directory a lot.

Speaker 2 (37m 50s): Oh nice. Thank

Speaker 1 (37m 51s): You. Yeah, because sometimes I just can’t think off the top of my head memory not being what it used to be, you know, turning six to five next month. And I sometimes use, a lot of times use the director going, okay, billers or, Okay hosting companies and whether it’s subject matter for a blog we’re doing that I need to give to my writer or whatnot, I, I use that industry directory a lot and it’s really helpful.

And if anyone doesn’t know that, why not.com has an industry directory. It’s awesome. So

Speaker 2 (38m 27s): Yeah, we’ve been doing that for a long time. I appreciate that very much.

Speaker 1 (38m 31s): It’s really about the only one out there that’s, that’s worth a dam. So, you know, people really should, should check it out. So tell us about why nots philosophy on how you work with people and how it relates to industry loyalty.

Speaker 2 (38m 46s): So basically we have always, you know, wanted to treat everyone with respect in the industry. Doesn’t matter if you know you’re a CEO or if you are an assistant to someone or somebody who works in the marketing department, we’ve always approached, you know, treat everyone with respect. I mean as well, you never know who could be big tomorrow, so Exactly. You’re rude to someone that could come to bite you in the ass. I mean, we don’t do it for that reason. We just figure, you know, we’re all in this together to some degree and you know, we like to have as much fun as we possibly can.

So it just, I don’t know, it just pays to make the most of it and just, you know, be a good person. And I mean, at the same time, you know, we do whatever we can for a lot of businesses out there to help elevate them, to help promote them, to give them, you know, the kind of recognition they deserve. And while we would never, ever tell anyone, don’t do this or don’t do marketing with this company or don’t do that because it’s either our way or the highway kind of thing, it is a little disconcerting sometimes to see people that I know we’ve really been kind of fighting for and putting out on the front lines to just kind of disregard us and decide, you know, that, you know, they got their use out of us, so to speak and now they’re gonna go with, you know, our competitor or just do something that more or less just flies on our face.

I mean, I’ve seen that happen quite a bit and I mean, it sucks it’s life, it’s just the way it goes. Some people just don’t have the same philosophy as us. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (40m 14s): Yeah. No, I think loyalty is important. You know, you talked about you never know who you’re dealing with and everything. I mean, and people starting out as, as an assistant and ending up the top of a company. Look at Shirley, Laura, she started out on the ground level and it ended up as ceo.

Speaker 2 (40m 30s): She’s definitely like one of the most influential women in the industry and definitely one of the most influential women, if not the most, as far as executives go in the cam industry. So it’s like I,

Speaker 1 (40m 44s): But isn’t that a great, isn’t that a great example of someone starting out on the ground level and ending up running a company?

Speaker 2 (40m 50s): Absolutely. I mean, I remember when she was an affiliate manager way, way back in the day, you know, she’s one of the best success stories out there.

Speaker 1 (40m 60s): Absolutely. So I understand you’re gonna be in an upcoming movie called Tornado. Fill us in on that, Jay.

Speaker 2 (41m 9s): So I met the director at exotica a few, no, about a year ago I met Hailey and Rob at the Exotica having Stone as the lead actor in the movie. And I was just, you know, finding out about this when I was there and I’m, you know, asking around, I’m like, I met the director and, and I’m like, Hey look, you know, what’s this gonna be about? It’s like, well, you know, kind of gave me the plot line and all that and how it’s gonna be, be like NC 17 rated so that this is something that can play in all theaters and they only wanted people from the industry and the cast.

And I’m like, well look, you know, I’ve got IMDB credits, I’ve done this, I’ve done that, I’ve been on this TV show, is there any possibility that I could be in this? And I mean, you know, he saw some clips of acting that I’ve done and more or less just said, Yeah, we’d like to have you in it. So cool. We hope to start shooting some scenes in New Jersey Exotica next month. So, and right now we’re at a phase where we definitely need to get some funding and financing going. So anybody listening out there who has deep pockets that you know, wants to put into something that could very well be a cult classic.

I mean, you know, we’re talking like, you know, Rocky Horror Picture Show kind of cult classic potential. That’s what we’re hoping for.

Speaker 1 (42m 24s): Cool. I wish you well with it as as everything Jay. So Jay, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on Adult Site Broker talk. And I’m looking forward to Round Boy. It would be four soon,

Speaker 2 (42m 39s): Round four.

Speaker 1 (42m 40s): Well, if for the fourth time we do this. Yes, This is the third.

Speaker 2 (42m 44s): This is the third. I thought this. Yeah, you’re right. It is.

Speaker 1 (42m 48s): Thank you.

Speaker 2 (42m 49s): Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (42m 50s): It’s a pleasure. My broker tip today is part eight of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about information needed to give the buyer and being transparent with the buyer. Here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well has your content been protected from piracy? And what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy take down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know. What promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates?

The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be. What is your traffic breakdown by country? Tier one, countries like the usa, Canada, the uk, Germany, and Australia are the most preferred. Add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of, such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site? Do you use billing or affiliate software like Nats? What is your retention rate?

How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have a day? Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind? Can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this? How much did you spend to produce or buy the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth? Now we’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Dan Hogue of Porn Star Platinum and Trans Erotica.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Jay Kopita. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Robert Warren of 2much.net.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer for sale a network of 22 growing affiliate sites. These include adult and affiliate review sites and various top lists. The network has grown in traffic and income over time. This is due to the quality of the network’s seo. The network brings in large amounts of signups through pay per sale and rev share programs.

There are also many two-tier affiliate signups generating income monthly. The seller will be available to the buyer with some ideas on how to generate extra revenue that he didn’t have a chance to do himself and to train the new owner on the operation of the sites. We’ve just reduced the price on this listing from $474,000 to only $369,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today and Adult Night Broker talk is Robert Warren of Too much.net as well as his own consulting firm.

Rob, thanks for being back with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 27s): Oh, it was my pleasure. I’m so happy to be

Speaker 1 (2m 29s): Here. It’s great to have you. Now Robert is a 29 year veteran of the adult industry, focusing on SEO and marketing. Many know him for his professionalism and mentorship. He’s offered advice and guidance to company owners on down to new webmasters and sales reps. You can find him currently alongside longtime friend markPrince@toomuch.net handling marketing and SEO for the company. Rob has spoken at many adult shows including avn, Internet, the Phoenix Forum, Webmaster Access, and many more throughout the years.

Rob, it’s been a year since we spoke, so what’s been going on in your business life since then?

Speaker 2 (3m 9s): Oh, just having a blast. I mean, it’s amazing. You would think after so many years you would get bored of it, but it’s getting more and more exciting Since the last show. Obviously, you know, a lot of people heard what happened and, or sorry, heard the show and started contacting me and it was really, really nice just chatting with and meeting new people and, and people just wanting to get into the industry and getting advice.

And I think my favorite part is just helping a lot of them avoiding the pitfalls of wanting to get into it. Sure. While other ones who were in it were calling me up and helping them redirect their, their focus because they would’ve lost a lot of money if, if they continued on the way that they were doing. So it’s sure it’s so good to be able to help people out and you provided me that opportunity to help even more people out.

So greatly appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (4m 12s): Hey, you were one of our most listened to podcast. You must have had your aunts, your uncles, your your cousins, everyone listening to it

Speaker 2 (4m 23s): As long as it wasn’t my parole officer. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 (4m 26s): That’s a, that’s a, that’s a really good thing for sure. Now, during our last conversation, you’d mentioned that about half your life has been spent in the adult industry and before that you were a pastor. Now the industry is faced a lot of attacks for many sources, including the religious right, Lord knows, pun intended. Can you understand their view and how would you respond to them?

Speaker 2 (4m 51s): In part I do understand their view, though. I have to take a step back and say that the American versus the Canadian religious groups are radically different

Speaker 1 (5m 3s): And

Speaker 2 (5m 4s): Even where there is radical Yeah. Up here in Canada, there’s tends to be a lot more openness and forgiveness and not, not necessarily forgiveness, but just inclusiveness. Yeah. Like my eldest who’s trans, the church, just like, okay, you know, like, welcome with open arms and oh man, you know what, what, what does he go by? And it’s like, okay, so I said the name and whenever we’ve gone, it’s like everybody from the pastor right down through whoever we’re in contact with says his name the way he wants it.

Yeah. And, and is happy and treats him perfectly normally. And I’m just like, Wow. You know, yet in the US that’s a, that’s a totally different thing. The religious group in the US has really gotten their hands too much into politics.

Speaker 1 (6m 3s): Absolutely. And,

Speaker 2 (6m 4s): And has not only infected that has become a virus, but has influenced it in totally the wrong ways. That is nothing. And I, you know, and I don’t mean to say it this way, but it has go for it. Nothing to do with with biblical teachings or what the Bible says or anything. It is everything to do with their opinions and how they want things to, you know, for themselves.

Not for, but the Bible is so, you know, I’m, years ago when I was being interviewed once, I don’t know if you remember, they had a guy named Pastor Phelps. He’s from the Westboro Baptist Church, and he was the leader of a group that’s called God Hates Fs. And this organization would go literally to, you know, if you had a fallen soldier or something, and if he was homosexual, that they would go and pick at the funeral.

Speaker 1 (7m 11s): Yeah. I do remember that.

Speaker 2 (7m 14s): Terrible. And so I remember when somebody in the adult radio show business wanted to interview them, they had nobody that could stand up or at least could talk to them. Sure. And somebody got ahold of, you know, they got ahold of me and I was a, I was a regular on the show cuz they did that every Wednesday and they got ahold of me. And so I had it out with this guy. And initially at first we were fine, but when I started using logic in actual biblical facts, he was lost.

Speaker 1 (7m 46s): Oh, I bet.

Speaker 2 (7m 46s): And it, then it came down to opinions. And that being said, and to answer your question, what’s happening is, is they’re attacking not just the women right now, but you know, they’re gonna be heading towards areas that, you know, they’re gonna removing all the rights for the, for the gay community, they’re gonna get rid of the marriage. That’s their goals is to take America. And, you know, like a hundred years more in the past.

Sure. And they’re already working on the voting.

Speaker 1 (8m 20s): Yeah. I mean, what’s happened with, and it started with like Falwell and those guys, the moral majority love that Im

Speaker 2 (8m 31s): Majority

Speaker 1 (8m 32s): Yeah. I mean, what’s happened is the religious powers that be have hijacked the right. Totally hijacked them. And they’ve somehow convinced a lot of people that anything that isn’t the norm is wrong. And they’ve gotten the politicos to go along with them. Yeah. Let’s, let’s face it, the, the the right of of well, all of politics in America is jacked up and it needs a total redo.

The two party system is outmoded and they’re just, it doesn’t serve the people. About 85% of the people, I believe, think that abortion should be legal. And yet we’ve got one of our two parties voting against it every time. So, Well,

Speaker 2 (9m 27s): He, if I, if I can just interject here. Sure. I can show you the hypocrisy of all of this and of the very short sentence. And that is that if you remember during Covid, these people were standing up and they were screaming, you know, I’m not wanna wear masks and what was their chant? My body, my choice.

Speaker 1 (9m 48s): Yeah, exactly. And

Speaker 2 (9m 49s): Now when it comes to women in abortion and all this, they forgotten that mattress, that mantra. Yeah. And now they’re saying basically your body our choice.

Speaker 1 (9m 60s): Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. They try to tell people how to live their lives. Yeah. They tell people how to live their lives and you know, that’s kind of an American

Speaker 2 (10m 9s): Yeah,

Speaker 1 (10m 10s): Yeah. Kinda undemocratic for any democratic country. I like yours better. So, so last time we, we talked, we talked about you being a family man with five kids and you mentioned your eldest is trans and you have another child with I’ll see, said this right? Dubs okay. Syndrome. Yeah. That’s Now how has all this affected your business life?

Speaker 2 (10m 35s): I’m gonna say in one word, empathy.

Speaker 1 (10m 39s): Ah.

Speaker 2 (10m 40s): I mean, I’ve always tried to, to read and to learn about the industry and those who are within it, you know, the various cultures, the fetishes, the opinions. And Sure. During that time there was a lot that have escaped me, in other words that I just couldn’t get a handle on. Right. And I knew that there was areas that I needed growth on. People would say, you know, Oh, I’m trans, for example. And I’d be like, That’s good, but what the hell does that really mean?

And now that I’m going through this with my own team, I can now find myself at trade shows or, or just talking on the webmaster boards or wherever, and I can actually identify and I can strike up a conversation. I can relate Yes. And empathize rather than asking awkward questions or, or being like somebody who’s just like, you know, you’re kind of at arms length, you know, do it, but do it over there. Right. You know?

And so rather than just brush ’em off or ignore them, I can engage hoping that they’ll understand that, you know, my main purpose in talking is that, you know, I do consider people in the adult industry like an, like a family.

Speaker 1 (11m 57s): It is, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11m 58s): You know, and if you remember the old Lelo one stitch, what is it? Ohana like, you know, like means family and family means no one gets left behind or forgotten. And as we move ahead as an industry, we can’t leave people behind or forget them. And that also means the various smaller groups or whatever groups and, you know, we have to make sure that they’re aware that we’re here and, and that we can, we can relate, you know?

Okay. And we’re not gonna ignore.

Speaker 1 (12m 35s): Okay. Sounds good. You might want to turn the sound off on, on your computer there, so somebody wants you there. So the, the past few years we’ve dealt as an industry with Covid just like the rest of the world. Do you think Covid has had a positive or negative impact on our industry and why?

Speaker 2 (12m 55s): The positive is I think a lot of us who are there and, and, and helping people out to create websites and all of that, that people are, are, you know, they’re trying to play it smart. And so individuals who want to, I’m finding that more and more people who are now stuck at home or whatever, they, they’re all sudden going, Well let’s create a, a website, you know, and let’s do this. So that grew, A lot of people grew on that.

There’s also people who are obviously stressed and need relief. And so a lot of the seals specifically in the cam industry grew. Yeah. As, because Cams provide a relationship, so to speak, not necessarily a healthy one, but it did. And so there was a lot of loneliness and, and so that side of it grew on the negative. We lost too many damn good people.

Speaker 1 (13m 55s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (13m 57s): And also, Covid drove a wedge between the, the rest of the industry because as you already know, on the boards, some people refused to accept Covid as a reason for things. Yeah. And others were, you know, whether to get vaccinated or not. And there was a huge battle going on constantly. Yeah. And as we kept on fighting over that, more and more people died.

Speaker 1 (14m 27s): Yeah. I kind of found, I kind of found on the boards and in society in general, those were the same people who were staunch Trump supporters almost to, to a person. And quite frankly, I’ve had most of those people blocked, at least on ex bids where I spend most of my time. Yeah. Cause I just don’t have time. Well, I just, I don’t have time for politics anymore. The whole, the whole Jan since January 6th, my, my interest in politics is, is almost ni except where it affects our industry directly.

So, you know, I I I think that those, those are the same people and they’ve been invisible to me, which is a real good thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15m 8s): The other thing is a sad thing is the content. And that is that we sure, we already had a whole crap load of content on the net, but we were slowly reaching our limit as to what people wanted to watch. And then whatever was left was left, we couldn’t shoot anymore. Yeah. Basically. And then all of a sudden when people were shooting, we started getting new niches, we started getting porn, mass porn, quarantine, porn.

Exactly. Like, we really need a reminder of this

Speaker 1 (15m 48s): Inevitable.

Speaker 2 (15m 50s): No. But then, but then we had like, places like only fans, I mean, really they only happened because people were bored with porn movies and or gave up hope that the girl honestly enjoyed what she was doing. I mean,

Speaker 1 (16m 5s): I don’t, I don’t think people, the people who were the consumers of, of porn were necessarily born with porn board with porn movies. I think that what happened there was the whole creator thing took off because so many people were either outta work or just had a lot of time on their hands. And then obviously the whole only fans and their, you know, other companies like it, they took off because people found out you could make a lot of money there and the, the coal creator thing took, took off.

So I think that was a huge plus for the industry.

Speaker 2 (16m 44s): Well people when they watch, for example, webcams are only fans outside of just the appearance and visuals. They’re there because they want to develop a relationship. Sure. I’ve always said this when it comes to webcams and Oh yeah, I joined only fans with that. When you see somebody as beautiful, those girls get hit up or those people and only fans get hit up so much. Sure. With people wanting to have a connection. Sure. When you have a lot of that now more, especially during Covid, when it was quarantine, the other porn stuff that was on the tube sites, you know, you can only search for a topic so much before is just like, I’ve, I’ve seen it all.

Hmm. Or I’ve seen what I’ve wanted to see at the end of the day, good or bad, it still boils down to, you know, we lost too many people that we’ll never see again.

Speaker 1 (17m 40s): So we’ve recently seen major companies who are stable, suddenly have lots of issues. Mind geek obviously recently lost some senior executives along with over 200 of their employees. Now, is this something you saw coming and what do you think will be the fallout?

Speaker 2 (17m 58s): Well, remember when I talked about Phelps and those guys and the Christians when I talked a long time ago? Yeah. I mean, they’re behind a lot of this stuff. Not him in particular, but these, these, these religious groups are trying to attack and they’re not gonna stop at PornHub.

Speaker 1 (18m 18s): Right.

Speaker 2 (18m 18s): Eventually, I mean, you know, these credit card companies and everybody are gonna start, the processors are gonna start going to like X videos and hamsters. They’re gonna be down the road as well.

Speaker 1 (18m 30s): Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (18m 31s): And then we’re gonna get into, you know, like the stolen content and with all the efforts of the content producers matter, we’ll help, you know, it’s, it’s gonna, it’s gonna help, or sorry. I was gonna say, it’s all gonna be part of taking it down because at the time, and we’re talking a lot of tube sites out there, Right. And all of those tube sites don’t have original content. I mean, they have something that’s called a scraper and they just basically go to the other tube sites and scrape all of the movies.

And then many do their repertoire.

Speaker 1 (19m 5s): Yeah, many do. Yeah. But

Speaker 2 (19m 7s): Now that porn hub and that have to have all of the IDs and all the paperwork and everything, what do you think’s gonna happen to all these other tube sites that don’t have that?

Speaker 1 (19m 15s): That’s true.

Speaker 2 (19m 16s): They’re gonna be in, in the firing line eventually.

Speaker 1 (19m 19s): Yeah. If you can get to ’em, you know, I mean,

Speaker 2 (19m 22s): Get them,

Speaker 1 (19m 23s): There’s, there’s so many of them, man. Okay,

Speaker 2 (19m 25s): Let, let’s put it this way. Free to me has a, Yeah, why do I say that? Because look at all the, remember when we used to have all those free torrent sites Yeah. That you could download music and videos, all that kinda stuff. Right? Where are they? There’s still some,

Speaker 1 (19m 41s): There’s still, there’s still some up,

Speaker 2 (19m 43s): But not as much as they used to the podcast.

Speaker 1 (19m 45s): Oh, no, of course not. Because

Speaker 2 (19m 49s): If, you know, if somebody really, really wanted to get to them, the could, you know, that’s, And once again, I get back to the point of, you know, when we were younger, if watching the same type of porn was okay, then we would be perfectly happy with their first Playboy. And that would last just for life.

Speaker 1 (20m 12s): I

Speaker 2 (20m 13s): Remember we’re just wanting to see more. We’re always wanting to, to get into more things and then our imagination takes over. Yeah. And then, you know, eventually content companies, they’re just pushing out stuff and they don’t really thinking about, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a cookie cutting thing.

Speaker 1 (20m 32s): Well, and you know, I Rob, I think here’s the, here’s the thing, and I’ve always said this, you know, people say, Well, what’s gonna work? If you look at the most successful producers and companies and websites, these are the people that have a niche. They do content within that niche. And sometimes it’s quite specialized. And those are the people who have continued to do well, are the people who have really specialized.

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Yes. And the other thing is that, remember what I was talking about webcams, there are certain video clips or, or movies where you can tell that the model is like really into it. Right. You can tell that he or she is, is thoroughly enjoying it there and you get a connection with it. And if we can come out with models and, and there, they, it still gets back to what is connecting to the users.

Speaker 1 (21m 34s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21m 35s): And when they look at her eyes or when they watch the video clip, the ones that stand out in your mind right now, if you’ve ever watched porn, I don’t know if you have or not, but if you ever have, of course, the movies that stand out in your mind are the ones that you’ve made a connection with the model that drew some type of desire or passion or feeling that you’ve made a connections like that person’s really into what I’m into. Yeah. And I’m gonna keep watching this video again because I can relate or I feel something more.

Speaker 1 (22m 9s): Right.

Speaker 2 (22m 10s): With that particular video. Or,

Speaker 1 (22m 13s): Or at least they make you think they’re into it. Acting comes into

Speaker 2 (22m 17s): It, It’s all, it’s all a game. But at this end of the day, you can have a hundred videos, but you might only watch two or three over again a couple times. Why is that? Because you’ve connected to the model, you’ve connected to the scene, you’ve connected to the action. And right now, are we really coming up with content that’s doing that? Or are we just trying to, to fill the, you know, just fill the void with what we’ve got?

Sometimes I look, I look at sometimes some of the stuff and I, I just shake my head because you could tell that the model, you know, when they’re looking away, they’re, they’re looking to where their paycheck is sitting.

Speaker 1 (22m 59s): Exactly. It’s on, it’s on the ceiling. So, so you’re, so you’re coming close to 30 years in this industry. Okay. Yeah. Over the years you worked with multiple companies and still are, Do you ever see yourself retiring?

Speaker 2 (23m 16s): Oh God. You know, there’s an old saying that, you know, you, you hear people say that you’re a lucky person if you can love what you work at. And what I do, at least what I think I do is I connect with people and I really find that, you know, the, you know, the, the, the connections are what keeps me alive and keeps me going year after year talking to new people, helping ’em out, learning about them, you know? Right. Growing like that. I think that if this, I’m gonna call it the new industry, I, if it starts going in a way that I simply can’t support it anymore.

Right. You know, in, in allowing content,

Speaker 1 (23m 57s): How would that, well how would that be?

Speaker 2 (23m 59s): Honestly, I’ve seen more simulated underage content.

Speaker 1 (24m 4s): Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (24m 6s): I’ve,

Speaker 1 (24m 7s): Well, but that’s something the credit card companies will clamp down on really fast though.

Speaker 2 (24m 11s): There, there’s, there’s, if you look at POV stuff and you look at more of this family stuff, you know, incest and all that that’s coming out and all of this, and you just, like, where the hell did all this come from? I mean, remember the old days when the

Speaker 1 (24m 27s): Reason they, the reason they have it sadly, is it’s something that turns somebody on.

Speaker 2 (24m 32s): Yeah. But now we are, but now we’re getting into this whole realm where the content that’s being shot is, is kind of going into direction that just is like, Whoa, wait a minute here. There was times when we wouldn’t have even touched this. Hmm. You know?

Speaker 1 (24m 49s): Okay. And

Speaker 2 (24m 50s): The people, and the people that are in the industry, we have actually started to, to lose our connection with one another. And let me explain this. Okay. Like, I still don’t get a lot of great friends and, and for the past few years, and I’ve made friends, you know, but if you’re somebody here who, for example, if you take a break, like I’ve known one or two people who’ve taken a break and just say, Look, I’m stepping back for the industry.

I’m just gonna, you know, go do something else. And then, you know, and then they come back after like two years or something. Yeah. Like, I know one guy who was like king of the world, you know, he’d go to a trade show. Everybody wanted to be with him, Everybody wanted to be there. And now, you know, like, and he just felt burnt at the time. Sure. But then he wanted to come back and then it was just like, started to be, nobody’s ever heard of him, you know? So, I mean, there’s people now that think that they’re legendary and, but see what happens when you don’t post for about a year or two.

Speaker 1 (25m 56s): Well, hey, here’s the thing. Okay. And not everybody posts Rob, but, but here’s, here’s the thing. Okay. If you go away for a period of time, a whole new group of people join the industry and they don’t know you. So to, to them you are new, You need to reestablish your reputation with them. Well, you need to establish your reputation cuz you don’t have one.

Speaker 2 (26m 20s): And that also includes that awards, at least in my mind, Don’t mean Deadly Squad

Speaker 1 (26m 27s): Awards

Speaker 2 (26m 28s): Last you, you are winning of an award last till New Year’s

Speaker 1 (26m 32s): If

Speaker 2 (26m 32s): That, you know, because it’s like,

Speaker 1 (26m 35s): That’s a whole other subject.

Speaker 2 (26m 37s): Oh, don’t even get me started on that. I, I I’ve got, you know, I’ve seen people that tell those things and it’s like, yeah, okay, maybe that was back in that year. What about now? You know?

Speaker 1 (26m 48s): Yeah. And let’s, let’s face it, some awards are legitimate, most are not. And it does, it does seem like a small group of people win the lion share the awards and it all comes back to the, to the Bro club Yep.

Speaker 2 (27m 9s): And advertisers and things like

Speaker 1 (27m 11s): That. Oh, well, well that goes, that kind of goes without saying, doesn’t it? That kind of goes without saying. I mean, I mean, there are, there are exceptions. You get somebody like Brad from Mojo Host who has won so many awards. Well, he deserves it. He has a great company. But, you know, that doesn’t mean there aren’t other good web hosts out there.

Speaker 2 (27m 30s): Yeah. You and I are entered in dangerous territory right

Speaker 1 (27m 32s): Now. So I, you know what? I don’t really give a flip. I mean, I’ve got, I’ve got my, the people who like me and the people who hate me, and it’s not, it’s not necessarily gonna change. And like I said, like I said, Brad’s very deserving. Okay. I congratulate him every time he wins an award. With that said, he’s not the only web host. Okay. And, and there are people who win awards year after year after year where they’re competition potentially for the award.

They should win something. I mean, let’s face it, it’s a popularity contest. And you’re right. The being an advertiser quite often is what wins you these things. So somebody’s, if somebody’s offended by that, I’m sorry. No, I’m not really sorry.

Speaker 2 (28m 24s): So, Well,

Speaker 1 (28m 25s): I

Speaker 2 (28m 25s): Can end with this Brad for Mojo. I know you’re listening. If you win the Xbi Newcomer of the Year award,

Speaker 1 (28m 35s): That could be a problem. Yeah, that could be. I’m

Speaker 2 (28m 37s): Gonna have a,

Speaker 1 (28m 38s): Okay. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 (28m 40s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28m 40s): That could, that could definitely be a problem. And if you win and if you win the newcomer of the, of the year, I’ve got a, I’ve got a problem with that. Okay. Yeah. So,

Speaker 2 (28m 50s): One, I got lost in the mail a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (28m 52s): Yes, it did. So well, mine too. So one thing I’ve noticed is that you don’t promote yourself at all on the boards these days while others do. Why is that? Well,

Speaker 2 (29m 4s): I mean, we just had the quick conversation. I mean, I don’t really covert awards and, you know, my feelings about that. I think, as I said, it’s, it’s a domino effect. Like on the boards, as I said, I, I talk to people like family and, and you and people request help and all that stuff. And you know, I I I don’t sit there and say, Hey, I’m an SEO monkey, you know, and I hate it.

I absolutely hate it when people use the word expert or that somebody knows everything about everything. Well, nobody does it. It really does because there is no, there is no such thing, you know, I’m sorry. That’s true. But I get several Skypes and emails a day and they basically start off all the same. It’s like, so and so recommended you that I should ask you this question. And you know, and I’m there and I help them out. And, you know, if people see what I’m writing on the boards, you notice that when I post things, I don’t, you know, I post about the topic or whatever.

I don’t really, I just don’t push it out there. The first order of my business is to gain trust into relationship. Sure. You know, because people buy and work with those people that they trust. Right. And if you’re not trustworthy to be honest and do what you say you’re gonna do, then, you know, and if, sorry, if that, if that’s what you’re doing, then a new client is built. Clients at the end of the day are my boss. Yeah. And I just perform and I, you know, but, but I also need to train and teach them Sure.

As well. Not just to show ’em that they made the right choice. Right. For me. But, you know, we can also have higher levels of discussions. And with that being said, if you’re training somebody and you’re teaching somebody, if you’ve developed a relationship with them, they’re more willing to take it in and know that when you’re giving them advice and you’re talking about their site or, or SEO or whatever, because a lot of times they do more than just seo. I’m giving people advice on their business and, and everything from marketing to, you know, what to buy and what do whatever.

But they do that because they trust. Cause they honestly know that I care about who they are and what they’re doing. And, and I’m helping them. I wanna see them succeed. And if they’re honestly at that point where they’re, they, they really do want to succeed for the right reasons Right. Then, then I’m there to help them along. And that’s great. And at the end of the day, you know, when you got people who have succeeded, bosses talk.

Yeah. You know, and when bosses talk, they recommend, and at times that will be me. And so sure. When that happens, I would rather get a client from a referral, which I do then promote myself. Because, you know, you’re starting off from squares, you know, back down to Square zero again. Yeah. Somebody says, Hey, you know, this guy’s really helped my company. We’ve, we’ve grown our, our traffic has grown by a thousand percent or 2000 and he’s really helped me out and in more than we used in one.

I really think you need to talk to this guy. I want a client like that. Of course, of course. Don’t we all, because that guy will call me up and he’s saying, Look, you got very well recommended and you know, what can you do? What can we do together? And then, you know, know on good terms to start.

Speaker 1 (32m 41s): Yep. So, so thinking back over the years, what is it that you miss in this industry that isn’t around anymore that you believe we could all benefit from?

Speaker 2 (32m 51s): There’s so many different answers. Give me, I guess the first way that I could answer that is with the number 42

Speaker 1 (33m 0s): Jackie Robinson?

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): No, no, that’s, that’s Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Okay. But actually, if I was to count, and th this is why I say 42, if I count and I have how many webmaster boards have on my list, There’s like 42. Hmm. But actively right now, like we, you’re basically looking at Xbi G FY and that kind of stuff, right? Yep. Like, there’s very, very, very few that are left.

And most of those other message boards, if you remember back in the day, I mean, they were all just basically promotional tools for, for the affiliate companies,

Speaker 1 (33m 44s): Pretty much.

Speaker 2 (33m 46s): And affiliate companies would advertise on these boards, and so everybody would start them up and, but now that there’s not the affiliate dollars going into those boards, suddenly they’re, they’re off.

Speaker 1 (33m 56s): Oh, yeah. And, and I think the whole message board concept has been taken over by Facebook groups and the like.

Speaker 2 (34m 2s): Yeah. But back in the day without Tubes, affiliate programs basically ruled more the, the message boards. Sure. That gave us the chance to connect to each other. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34m 17s): But you still, well you still have it on X Biz and also G fy, although I don’t spend a lot of time over there,

Speaker 2 (34m 24s): So limited.

Speaker 1 (34m 25s): Well, yeah. Bec quite frankly, here’s, here’s the biggest problem I find and it’s, it’s something that’s infected all social media, including adult social media, is politics. And that is what has driven most people away from the industry boards, the ones that still exist. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34m 46s): Yeah. I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (34m 48s): And I mean, ex Xbi used to have tons of posts and tons of questions about the business and hey, I’m, I’m starting this and will you take a look at this site? And it also would have a lot more people who were experienced and had been around a long time and were actual owners of sites and companies on there. You don’t see much of that anymore. And the ones who are on or on a lot less, cuz quite frankly they don’t wanna go through all the political posts and everything.

There’s just too much bs I mean all, all, all it’s become is a, is is a bitch forum.

Speaker 2 (35m 28s): Back in the day when there was all this, I think I was at one point I was moderator on six of them. And what I, I think is also we’ve done is we’ve lost the ability, and I mean this in all sincerity, we’ve lost the ability to mentor one another and which also means having a code of conduct.

Speaker 1 (35m 50s): Right.

Speaker 2 (35m 51s): You know, and we found that out, especially this week when somebody came on the board and basically told somebody something that they should not have. Hmm. And this person was a mentor and a veteran and the person called her cunt.

Speaker 1 (36m 10s): And

Speaker 2 (36m 11s): I was stunned

Speaker 1 (36m 13s): Because

Speaker 2 (36m 14s): This is a veteran, this is somebody who’s done so much for so many people and person.

Speaker 1 (36m 19s): That’s a good way, it’s a good way to get yourself banned. Which hopefully they were,

Speaker 2 (36m 22s): They were good. It actually was, according to somebody was like the quickest band ever happened.

Speaker 1 (36m 28s): Good. Was this, was this on? Was this on?

Speaker 2 (36m 32s): Yes.

Speaker 1 (36m 34s): Missed.

Speaker 2 (36m 36s): That’s what happens when you miss a meeting. Yeah. Well, but we, we have lost the ability to mentor one another. And that’s why I think that I’ve been around for so long is I do that. Yeah. And with that comes along with the vanguard, the old days is that there was a code of conduct. Yeah. Trades were more about trades for about adult networking and fun. Yeah. Showing off making entertains truly porn stars, industry veterans were legends and experts and you know, and now, you know, now we’ve got this slick software that’s out there that an actuality is very limited, but everything they can, everybody thinks that they can get away with doing their own designing and programming and SEO and marketing without the need of anyone else who’s actually trained for it.

And you know, back in the day, we, we had people that when they came in to actually do business, they had capital behind them rather than a limited budget that basically be a drop in the water

Speaker 1 (37m 37s): Sometimes. Sometimes you had upstarts though, and some of the upstarts did very well.

Speaker 2 (37m 42s): Yeah. And they did. I think the, the, the key thing, and this has happened in the past as it does now, and that the one thing that is lacked over the years is creativity. You know, yes you’ve got design and content marketing and seo, but if you get one company who does it, who’s a little bit creative and then everyone else steals it and reformats it and does the same process

Speaker 1 (38m 7s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (38m 8s): And you know, now people just kinda like, like I challenge anyone to find an adult company, for example, a webcam site. We’re more than 80% of the traffic comes from, for example, social media. Back in the day we didn’t really have social media as much.

Speaker 1 (38m 27s): Right, Right.

Speaker 2 (38m 28s): We worked really hard on, you know, you, you got traffic and we worked on analytics and we used it properly. Right. And we got people back onto, you know, the proper way of being able to build a site.

Speaker 1 (38m 44s): Yep.

Speaker 2 (38m 45s): Now you have people who call themselves experts who go out there like, you know, oh, social media is the way to go. And I’m like, my god, I have seen so many traffic overviews of multiple sites and every single one of them, when you look at social media, it is down to, of all of the traffic, whether it’s a million, you know, of hits or whatever like that, of all the traffic, less than, let’s say four to 8% of all of those companies are from social media.

If you take that number, you can break it down even more

Speaker 1 (39m 22s): Sure. By

Speaker 2 (39m 24s): To YouTube and all this kind of stuff. Right. Sure. But most of them are under 3% and you know, I can, I can think of like seven campsite right off the bat in the past two years, tried to rely solely on social media probably because it was free to them and they spent so much time, so much time on it. Sure. And some of them got some traffic, some of them’s very little, they spent massive amount of time or whatever.

And the, but the end of the day, the conversions simply weren’t air.

Speaker 1 (40m 0s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (40m 1s): And they had little impact on sales. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40m 4s): So some who were listening to the podcast have either just started or are gonna soon start their own website. What advice can you give them to do and what not to do?

Speaker 2 (40m 14s): Well, we were just talking about it. I mean, anyone who’s claiming that there to be an expert or promises you tons of traffic at little or no cost, well the reality is it does take effort and cost. Sure. You don’t think that it will, that it’s that it will happen. That then you’re gonna be disappointed in it and try not to rely upon, you know, free online software for things like SEO or for whatever Right. To solve all your problems because it, you, it only handles a certain amount of your website and it’s very limited.

Right. You know, and in, but you do need, and this goes back to what we talked about before. We need mentors and we need knowledgeable people that give advice and Right. And people have gotten away from doing that for looking for those mentors because they think that this piece of software, when they Google it, is gonna solve their problems. Sure. And if you’re shooting content, shoot what you enjoy and Right. And if not, then do your research. Shoot what your users want or will want learn it, study it and be willing to admit that you’re wrong and change, seek out a mentor if you can.

And they might be expensive, but the cost of you making mistakes is gonna be even higher. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41m 38s): And you know, mentors don’t always cost money. I mean

Speaker 2 (41m 42s): Yeah, that’s true.

Speaker 1 (41m 43s): You know, my mentor, my, and he’s the one who introduced me to you when I first started in the industry, and I consider you one as well because you were always very helpful, helpful with your advice was Bob Rice. And, and I know Bob’s name isn’t necessarily positive to everyone. Me, Hey,

Speaker 2 (42m 0s): You and I have the same mentor.

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Yeah. Oh, okay. Well Bob’s name might not be positive to everyone who’s listening because of some things a company he was associated with did at the end. I

Speaker 2 (42m 11s): I, I’ve, I’ve learned that recently too.

Speaker 1 (42m 13s): Yeah. But at the same time, I think Bob walks on water. He’s one of the smartest guys I’ve ever met in this industry. And he really gave me, well, more than once he actually got me started, not only in the industry, he had a, I think it was in, was an audio or a video, a program that talked about starting a site. And I wish I had taken more of the advice cuz when I got it, I was already far down the road and then made a lot of mistakes.

But then Bob was instrumental in me getting into the website brokering. So I’ve got, because he was doing it at one time. So I’ve got a lot of, really a lot to thank Bob for. So, you know, mentors aren’t, don’t always cost money sometimes and quite often. Yeah. It’s just somebody that you meet at a show or you connect with on ex biz, which I think is, is really the biggest, most valuable tool of that type of platform is to ask questions.

And you can ask questions of the community on X business. That’s one of the things I love about it cuz I’m always there to answer the questions. You’re always there to answer the questions. Mark’s always there to answer the questions, the regulars, and unfortunately we’re down to just the regulars, Steve from Groupy is always very giving with this time. The people who are the regulars will answer questions if you ask them. And if you reach out to them and send them a private message, people are more than happy to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (43m 45s): Yeah. And, but that’s what I’m saying is that we need the mentors and Yeah. Do you

Speaker 1 (43m 51s): Think they’re out there? I still think there,

Speaker 2 (43m 52s): There, there are people out there who, when they make suggestions, sometimes they make suggestions that are not necessarily in the best interest.

Speaker 1 (44m 2s): Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (44m 4s): Yeah. Okay. And, and for example, if you remember the days, you know, or it’s like, you know, Oh, who do you recommend to do this? Well, why don’t you use this company because you recommended that company because you get, let’s say 5%. Well,

Speaker 1 (44m 19s): Yeah. And that still, and that obviously still goes on, but I’ll tell you something, even in the case where I will get a referral fee or a commission from somebody and I don’t go out, go searching those out because I get offered them as I’m sure you do on a daily basis. And I, I turn away virtually every deal because Yeah. They, they want me, they wanna put me on commission because obviously I wear a mark, I wear the marketing hat too, and I tell that’s not what I do.

But if, if it’s a service that I believe is worthy, I will recommend them. But I’m not gonna recommend somebody just to make money. I’ll recommend them if I believe in them as I know you will. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 1s): I, I, I’ve never accepted any of those offers because my reasoning being is that if I accept that, then I will never, ever be able to give you 100% accuracy and truthfulness that my recommendation is true and the best it can be. And yes, it’s okay for you to check out somebody, but if you honestly think that maybe it might go somewhere else, then, then, okay,

Speaker 1 (45m 29s): Hey, I don’t think there’s, I don’t think there’s really anything wrong if you do believe in it to accept something, but I, but I, I can, Hey, you’re a better man than I am. And I, I haven’t really taken a lot of commissions from people. I mainly do it in the case of like processing and things like that where obviously out.

Speaker 2 (45m 48s): Yeah. It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do. That’s just me and what I do. Okay. Anybody, I mean, I’m not pointing fingers of anybody who does that. I’m just Well,

Speaker 1 (45m 57s): You better not. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 59s): So, okay, so getting back to the other, Okay, so we talked about seeking on a mentor. We talked about finding a trusted processing company, Find a good industry lawyer, please for God’s sakes, try not to use WordPress things for seo. If you’re gonna have pictures up and videos, don’t use numbers on them like 2, 3, 4, 2, 3 jpeg because Right.

Speaker 1 (46m 25s): You need

Speaker 2 (46m 26s): Can’t rank that and, and can’t collect that.

Speaker 1 (46m 30s): Why do you, by the way, why do you say not to use WordPress? Because I’m a, I’m a WordPress believer and I, my sites are in WordPress. Obviously I don’t have membership sites, but why do you say not to use WordPress?

Speaker 2 (46m 44s): There are at times, and Mark would jump in on, on this one as well. There are at times when it comes to programming and or various other things, even with seo right? That it’s more difficult working with WordPress than creating a different site. Also, there are certain security things that can happen with WordPress that doesn’t happen with other sites. Now I know that Brad at Mojo and all that can create some certain security, but I’ve seen more breaches happen on WordPress and problems happening with WordPress and I have

Speaker 1 (47m 21s): With, Oh, Don, I know. Yeah, I know there’s problems.

Speaker 2 (47m 23s): That’s, that’s all that I’m saying. You know, that’s, I don’t wanna get, I don’t bash them at all. I’m just, just saying my recommendation personally is, is for that. Okay. The other thing is never assume that your brilliant ideas groundbreaking because sure. Somebody has thought of it in the past and they failed and find out why. Yeah. Be flexible with your programmer on advice. Be gracious, uplifting on the webmaster boards.

Don’t get into a pissing match, but finally is read, read and read more strong wise leadership and, and you should be able to go far.

Speaker 1 (48m 5s): Now, any general words of advice to people in the industry that you would give before we close out?

Speaker 2 (48m 11s): I would think in the industry, and this is gotta listen here, I’ve said this before, the industry is the only, and I’m gonna use the term army, okay? We’re the only army that shoots its own wounded. So we have to stop attacking one another. Yes. We have to start helping each other through, as I said, mentoring, but mostly support those in the battle for our rights.

Right. And be aware to fight all the attacks that are happening for the government society. Yes. From owners to models. Everyone did. Yeah. Because if we’re, if we’re just constantly nailing one another, we’re missing out on who the, on what’s really attacking us.

Speaker 1 (48m 59s): Yeah. It’s a circular firing squad, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (49m 2s): Yeah. And so that would be my only advice to the industry is, you know, like we literally are one of the only armies that shoot its own wounded.

Speaker 1 (49m 13s): That’s funny. But it’s unfortunately it’s true. Hey Rob, I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on Adult Site Broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (49m 24s): I hope so too. And thank you so much, Bruce, for the opportunity and also for giving of your time and, and expertise in mentoring other people through just the podcast. I appreciate all that you’re doing as well and it’s a pleasure every time to be here.

Speaker 1 (49m 40s): Thank you, Ron. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about trademarking your site and ways to make it unique. Next, when you decide to sell your site, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers. Detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspects of your operation that potential buyers may wanna find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images and number of videos, how much of it is exclusive and how much is non exclusive financial information for at least the last three years if your company is that old.

This should include sales reports, profit and loss statements, and billing reports. Get all the information organized and legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself. Organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know, such as are you being sued?

Do you have any substantial debts or anything else? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy, or they’ll find out after the sale and you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands. Disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Jay Kopita of Why not. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Robert Warren.

Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Kole Snodgrass of Full Swap Radio.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to present a one of a kind unique and legendary site. It’s a pro amateur ethnic reality site founded all the way back in 2005. The site is styled after popular late night variety shows like the tonight show viewers never know what to expect with a variety of different performers from brand new amateur talents to famous porn stars. There is no other website, quite like it.

The site continues to grow and expand with no major competitors in this niche. What makes it unique is their 100% original content that has uncensored and unscripted reality TV style scenes. They let the performers be themselves while having fun filming the video trailers are short web episodes that engage the viewers and are immensely popular online. Almost all the traffic is organic with some affiliate traffic. It runs on a custom built script, which has been maintained and updated.

The site gets about 20 joins and 40 rebuilds a day. It’s ranked number 16 in the USA on X videos, only $1.4 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Cole Snodgrass of full swap radio Cole. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 53s): Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (2m 56s): I appreciate your time now, Cole and miss Amanda, like to joke, they are the longest one night stand you’re ever gonna meet. They met in college in 1992. You’re young. You guessed it on a one night stand and they’ve been together ever since they’ve been in the lifestyle for five years. During those five years, they witnessed a gradual change with more lifestyle people starting Facebook groups. It seemed like more cliques were forming. It felt like if you weren’t one of the cool kids, then your experience in the lifestyle lifestyle suffered.

They also witnessed how hard it was for new couples and individuals to be accepted with established groups and clubs. So in March of 2017, crazy Cosmo was born. Did I say that? Right? Like the song you did. Okay, good, good. That a lot of phonetic stuff in, in this script also born that day was the concept of swinging with attitude. Change is never easy and this change has been no different since that first night crazy Kaba has grown to include eight different Facebook pages, multiple chat groups, a radio showed called crazy truth, and that’s with a K and SBAs rans podcast, full swap shop merchandise store and their online radio station, full swap radio.

Their podcasts have a dedicated audience and now have over 85,000 followers. Their goal is to push for a safer, more inclusive lifestyle for everyone. So did you like your commercial Cole?

Speaker 2 (4m 27s): I did. That was awesome.

Speaker 1 (4m 28s): I, I do

Speaker 2 (4m 29s): Love best. I, that was great.

Speaker 1 (4m 30s): I do my best. So Cole, what caused you to go from lifestyle participant to creating your own company?

Speaker 2 (4m 39s): I’m a, I’m a realist. And at the time I was, I was in the professional real world. I was a car salesman and in a car business. And so my time was exceedingly valuable. Yeah. And what would happen is we would go to these events. We would go to meet and greets and go to things. And there was just so much shenanigan, so much fluff, so much clickiness. It was like, this is, this is, people are making this way too difficult.

And it was just like, you know what? I’m, I’m a person that I’m a doer. I see something let’s solve it. And I, a lot of people can tell you the stories of me going, you know, if a guy was smart, he would start his own page. And finally just reached that boiling point where it was like, you know what? This is, this is stupid. This, this is not the way this should be. And on the odds of March, we started crazy CA I miss Amanda woke up the next morning and went, I’m an admin of what?

And way we went.

Speaker 1 (5m 41s): Yeah. Interesting. So you weren’t really in the lifestyle too long before you did this, right?

Speaker 2 (5m 49s): Not really. I mean, we, we, we, we’d only been in about five years and, and at that point, so we had seen things and we had gotten,

Speaker 1 (5m 56s): So you had been in it five years before you started it.

Speaker 2 (5m 59s): Right.

Speaker 1 (5m 60s): Okay. Okay. Got it.

Speaker 2 (6m 2s): So, but we were still, you know, anytime you say, you think you’ve seen it all experienced it all, you’ll be proven wrong. And, and really right. Even five years in is still kind of newbies to a degree, but sure. We had seen this and we’d seen enough. And it was like, you could still, you knew what it felt like to be new. We were still new enough, those feelings of trying to break in those circles and those clicks and those groups, we could see what could be. And I, I could see how much better it could be and what the Midwest was lacking.

And so the joke was that I just wanted to take over the world and a way we went and we’ve never looked back

Speaker 1 (6m 39s): Now, you’re in Nebraska of all places. It’s, you know, I mean, maybe it’s a being, being a California, and now I live in Thailand. So that’s all screwed up. But talk about preconceptions. If you think about, think about the adult industry, think about the lifestyle, and then you think about Nebraska. So how, how do those mesh

Speaker 2 (7m 5s): Well, and, and honestly, that’s, they didn’t, and, and that was really part of the problem is that, you know, the, the Midwest is so such a flyover, flyover states, Nebraska is a flyover state. And so you didn’t hear there wasn’t

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): You said, you said it. I didn’t.

Speaker 2 (7m 24s): Yeah. Yep. Trust me. I’ve apologized many times for the things I’ve said about states, but we didn’t hear about the big events on the coast cuz people didn’t, people don’t understand that demographically, a state like Nebraska, we have the most billionaires of any state in the union. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 43s): You’ve

Speaker 2 (7m 43s): Got a lot, you know, our people, they may buy combines, but they pay a million dollars in cash for those combines. And when they’re not farming, they’re going cruises and all kinds of stuff. So we were kind of just left in the lurch and sure. Part of what we, what I, what we have done is we have built the fact that we’re not flyover anymore. You’re not gonna get through the Midwest without seeing us.

Speaker 1 (8m 10s): Yeah. And

Speaker 2 (8m 11s): Our events. And we laugh all the time that if we had lived on the east or the west coast, I’d probably be closer to my goal of taking over the world actually.

Speaker 1 (8m 24s): So tell me about the podcast. Actually, you got more than one, but who have been some of your favorite guests so far and why?

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): You know, so the podcast, there’s so many different types of shows out there. And as we’ve looked at, we, we wanted, we made every mistake you could make as, as a new couple in the lifestyle, of course. And so we wanted our show to be one that was really an added value. And to be honest with you, we really haven’t, we haven’t done done very many interviews, had to interview people on our show because our show has been completely listener driven.

So we answer questions from our that we get sent to us, emailed into us, mailed into us, come to us on our, some of our Facebook groups. And it’s been a, an incredible experience because when you get the response from the folks that ask you the questions, they listen to the show and they go, you’ve changed my life.

Speaker 1 (9m 25s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (9m 26s): That is without a doubt at just a, a tremendous feeling. And, and you know, our, show’s not the biggest show out there. I’m sure we could be bigger if we told more sex stories and did some other things. That’s just not our gig. We try to keep it pretty. I can be opinionated. People who know me will find that hard to believe. So we try, we try to keep that separate. And that’s where, that’s where then SBAs rants came up, which is my own show where I have no adult supervision. And again, we’re, I’m, I’m tackling issues in the lifestyle.

And when we have people come up and go, wow, I felt like this show was, this episode was written specifically for me. And I’m really gonna change, or I’ve made changes because of it. That’s the greatest feeling in the world.

Speaker 1 (10m 10s): Yeah. Definitely with the call in format and sorry for my ignorance, obviously I, I, I, I haven’t listened, but so how has that gone?

Speaker 2 (10m 22s): So I I’m gonna backtrack cuz it ties in with the whole thing. There’s always a method to my madness, our, our logos. And you’ll, you’ll see our logos on everything has the middle finger that’s hence the, the swinging with an attitude. And it was, it was really funny when we started our show. When we first started out, anytime you do something different, you attract haters. It is what it is. Oh sure. And, and when you, you rock the status quo, you’re gonna have haters. And of course we start all, every one of our podcasts, pod podcasts, excuse me, start off with me going, Hey, you crazy motherfuckers, welcome to another edition of crazy truth.

We were getting called. You can go back several years and find on Twitter where people were calling us shock jocks. You can’t say those things. You can’t be that’s insulting. What it was is that let’s face it. We’ve all been in situations where we’re just fed up tired, pissed off, whatever you wanna say. And we just kind of wanna say bucket it. I mean, it’s a horrible way to put it, but it, you know,

Speaker 1 (11m 25s): No, it’s the way it is. That’s that’s my vocabulary.

Speaker 2 (11m 29s): Yeah. Well it, it really is. And, and sometimes, you know, you, flowery language is beautiful, but sometimes you have to break things down to the most basic common denominator. And what we found was with the show and, and with everything we’ve done is the people we were told on a national level, this will never fly, blah, blah, blah. What we found is the people just needed a pied Piper. They needed somebody who was willing to stand in front of the crowd and go, don’t be afraid. Follow me.

Let’s go stand your ground. And, and, and, and that’s been with the show with, with everything we’ve resisted the urges to, to switch to more of a, I’ll call it a penthouse forum concept. You know, we’ve just, we blaze our own trail and that’s, everybody wants to do that. They need somebody that can say the things that they want to say. Sure. But maybe they don’t have the courage to say or don’t feel like they can say, and that’s what we come in.

Speaker 1 (12m 27s): Sure. So, so far, what do you feel your biggest accomplishment with your business is in the lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (12m 35s): Really? Honestly, I think Ms. Mann and I both feel like it, it’s just the, the amount of, of impact we have had on people’s lives. Every single day. We are honored and privileged to get emails from people, thanking us for talking about the things that, the true questions that they had or talking about the things nobody else has giving them honest advice, whether it’s what they want to hear sometimes or not.

We have that interaction has been tremendous. And really I’ll tell you the number one, the number one. And this goes with our episode, best episode that we’ve done still our most popular we had, I had a testicular cancer and it was, it was, it was a weird situation. I was fine on one Sunday. And on the following Saturday, I was having a testicle removed

Speaker 1 (13m 33s): For shit.

Speaker 2 (13m 34s): And it was case number 121 in the world ever. My, my nut is famous. Boom, the, the Sunday after

Speaker 1 (13m 44s): I, you got that’s what you got that going for you.

Speaker 2 (13m 46s): Yeah. Yeah. And I’m totally fine. And, and, but the Sunday, after the, after we had it removed on Saturday, the following day, we recorded a show and we did a couple of shows about men’s health and, and about, Hey, you know, being tested. My urologist is now a fan of our show. We still have people come up and say, you know, I, I had my cuz testicular cancers generally at a younger man’s situation, walk up and say, Hey, we’ve had, we had our kids listen to it.

Our sons about checking themselves and other men have come and said, Hey, we’ve went in now and got checked. And it saved me. They, they found prostate cancer early because of it, when you can do that is a business and have fun. That’s a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 (14m 33s): Yeah, no, it definitely is. It definitely is. And I’m, I’m sure glad you’re okay. Now you initially had some frustrations about the lifestyle. Do you think, do you think things have gotten better or have they gotten worse?

Speaker 2 (14m 48s): I truly, we feel like it, it it’s, they’re moving in the right direction. I think there are some areas that are just going to require continuous preaching, basically continuous revisiting. I think there are things that, that we can all do as members of the community in the lifestyle and as participants to make it better. But I, but I think it takes work. And I think that we have to continuously be diligent in our efforts to achieve those goals.

I mean, we, we pushed things like consent. We, we pushed, we’ve teamed up with different people like nightcaps, for example, for safety at parties to, to stop this damn spiking of drinks that happens at events, you know, we push security at our events. Sure. A raising of the bar of what the expectation is in the lifestyle is necessary. It’s, it’s starting to happen slowly. There’s a long way to go. Right. And, and, and I have to put in there right now with the current environment of the world that we live in.

I think that it is important that we help the rest of the world, understand the difference between the stereotypical swingers, which is obviously false and narrative, as we all know, right. To what really is the lifestyle and, and part of that’s how we behave and what we do. So I think it’s moving in the right direction, but it’s, it’s a constant effort and there’s no, there’s not an end date, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (16m 24s): Yeah, totally. Now it, it seems from our conversations, like you’re looking at getting both lifestyle and adult businesses to advertise as well as mainstream companies. Why is that?

Speaker 2 (16m 37s): Well, so our philosophy, okay. So obviously being in Nebraska, I grew up in Omaha, which is Warren buffet. The Oracle of Omaha lives in Nebraska. And, and so I’ve been surrounded by that concept, the Berkshire Hathaway concept, my entire life. And, and, and quite honestly, there’s a, there’s a misnomer out there that adult businesses or lifestyle businesses need to operate under some sort of unique system because they’re adult businesses. And the reality of it is, is that until adult businesses are listed in the top 100 and top 50 corporations of the world, I think the regular business model actually is, is very effective and needs to be applied.

Right? I am firm believer that when you look at the demographics of the lifestyle of the swinging community, it is a company’s dream target audience, 35 to 55, $180,000, average household income income. They own their own homes. You know, this is a target market. Yes. But our job is we have to educate them that being the, the vanilla world to let them know that, Hey, look, just because our hobby is different, your hobby might be golf.

My hobby might be a little bit different. You know what? I still buy grills. I still wear jeans. I still sure we’re still people. And, and I truly believe as we break that barrier down and, and we show vanilla manufacturers and vanilla companies, the value of advertising and working with adult companies, quality adult companies, it’s going to open up more sponsorship dollars for events,

Speaker 1 (18m 19s): Right?

Speaker 2 (18m 20s): I mean, let’s face it, you know, at, at this point in time, there’s only so many lifestyle companies that can sponsor big lifestyle events or B sponsors. There’s a limited amount of dollars, but sure. If all of a sudden you can open up and Coca-Cola, for example, could be a sponsor. Well, that’s gonna improve the quality of the lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (18m 38s): And

Speaker 2 (18m 38s): I just think it will, it will cause the businesses within the lifestyle to raise their games, to meet the expectations of the regular corporate America as well.

Speaker 1 (18m 47s): Yeah. And, you know, corporate America has, has avoided the adult industry, like the plague and including the lifestyle, Obviously the recent barrage of right wing religious attacks on adult with the help of media outlets. Like the New York times was subscription. I canceled when they went after mine geek. Yep.

You know, I mean, I vote with my money. What can I say? But it’s interesting because if you would asked 20 years ago, if I ever thought that mainstream companies would invest dollars in the L G B T community, which is now L G T Q plus, I would’ve said, you’re crazy now they, can’t not, I wonder what it’s gonna take to get them to invest in adult.

Speaker 2 (19m 47s): Well, and you know, and, and I think that’s a, I think you, you, you put an interesting question there. And I, I think that just like every other aspect of the lifestyle, it’s about education. If, if we can show an adult or vanilla company, let let’s say a bar, for example, if we can go and show that that bar, how, Hey, look, people are gonna walk in with S screaming, worse, swingers, worse, swingers, and chase your patrons away. They’re not going to come in and try to have sex with every person they see any, any different than any other vanilla person would at a bar, you know?

Right. They’re, they’re actually gonna be very low key they’re whatever, but they’ll spend more money and they can actually see, wait a minute, that image that we’ve seen on TV, that’s, that’s a stereotype. That’s not real

Speaker 1 (20m 35s): Sure. And,

Speaker 2 (20m 36s): And I think as we educate, and the other thing is, I believe with the right wing things going on in the world right now, this, the lifestyle community is going to, to be in need of, of partners. And because at some point in time, the problem with zealots is that they eventually will turn on you too. And we’re not, as, we’re not as big as at, you know, what do they say, 12 to 15 million lifestyle people in the us.

And you know, we’re gonna need companies to go now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, hold on a second here. We’re, we’re gonna need partners. And I think that’s gonna be very, very important.

Speaker 1 (21m 18s): Now in recent years, it seems the lifestyle is integrated a lot with the rest of the adult industry. Why do you think that is? And do you think there’s room for more cooperation between the two?

Speaker 2 (21m 30s): You know, I think that with the, with the improvement in things like cell phones and, and things like that, you know, and, and we do it as well. Miss Amanda has an only fan’s account and, and, you know, the ability to, to shoot content, you know, now everybody has a phone. Everybody thinks they’re of, you know, they’re they’re movie makers. So there’s the ability to, to produce some of the things are there. And I think people see the potential for the dollar signs to be there. Sure.

I think that there is a lot of room for cooperation and part of it is, you know, the adult community has the adult world and, and, and has a lot of experience and education that I think some of the amateurs, some of the swingers that go, Hey, I wanna do porn. I want to, I wanna do only fans. They can provide a lot of insight going, okay, you need to think about this a little bit and Hey, you need to hear here’s the rules you need to follow. I, I almost think it can be like a mentoring process with it.

And, and honestly, I, the return factor is I think that a lot of the people in the, the lifestyle love the opportunity to get to meet their, the let’s face it porn is, is, is at lifestyle events. It’s obviously part of it, the chance to get, to meet their, the people they’re fans of and to talk to ’em. And I just think there’s a lot of room there. And I think that if it’s done correctly, I think that it can be a great relationship, you know? And, and I also think there’s a degree that we need the adult community to be willing, to help educate little miss housewife and hubby that think they’re gonna make some extra money and put some dirty videos out there of the, the, the bigger picture.

Right. Because, you know, just because you, you show, you show your body doesn’t mean you’re gonna be rich overnight. It doesn’t work that way. Right. So I, I definitely think they, they can help. And I think a lot of the people in the adult community enjoy the lifestyle and if we can make it so they can attend events and not be mobbed, that they can be just people. Also, I think that’s a plus as well.

Speaker 1 (23m 40s): Sure. Now you alluded to Ms. Amanda doing only fans, is that, is that the extent of the adult work she’s doing

Speaker 2 (23m 50s): It? It’s the starting point she has. She has decided to go ahead and, and, and she wants to do more. And that’s something that we’re, that we’re working on. We’re learning. It’s, it’s funny because, you know, we talk about, we believe there’s a window, you know, we’re both, I just turned, I turned 50 in a month and she’s 51. And she’s like, you know, there you go. There’s a, there’s a window here. And, and part of it is the confidence, you know, 20 years ago there, if you, I would’ve bet every penny I ever would have in my life that there’s no way she would ever do adult anything, but the, the lifestyle and the confidence and, and she enjoys it.

That’s, it’s a boost. Her, it’s a, she enjoys it. And quite honestly, it’s something that a lot of our, our folks really wanna see. And so we’re, we’re about please in the crowds and she’s having a good time, so we wanna keep it going. And, and we’re talking to some folks on the adult side that can kind of help guide us because there’s a whole lot of things we don’t know, but we’re trying to learn and things that we can bring back to help the other people in the Midwest, you know, on the coast, there’s there, there’s groups meeting, Hey, let’s put content together and whatever the Midwest doesn’t have that.

And so we’re as SVA. We’re trying to create that for them, but we wanna be able to do it in a way that we can make sure that we help people do it the right way that they’re safe and they’re smart and, and whatever. So sure. We’re learning with everybody else. And we’re having a lot of fun in the process.

Speaker 1 (25m 12s): There’s a website, adult model mentors that deals with a lot of that subject matter that she should take a look at. And you guys should probably partner with, if, if a lot of your people are, are starting to get into the only fans type of site. So certainly I can make that introduction for you. I would love that the owner, the owners have been on, on the podcast before go figure, right. So why did you decide to start the radio station?

And how’s it going so far?

Speaker 2 (25m 47s): There is it’s the, the basic concept. One person yelling is loud. 50 people yelling. The same thing is louder. And there is when you look into the adult alternative and, and sex positive lifestyles in, in that genre on the podcast, there’s a lot of noise, you know, there’s, there’s literally hundreds of podcasts. Some of them, a lot of them are folks that are doing as hobbies. Some are taking

Speaker 1 (26m 15s): More like more like hundreds of thousands actually. Yeah. Not millions.

Speaker 2 (26m 20s): Yeah. And, and you get lost. And again, we did everything you could do wrong when we started our podcast also. So I mean, you know, we, we learned the hard way, but I wanted to have a place that all of us were yelling the same thing together. But I also wanted something because again, education is a huge aspect for us. I have said for years and years, I believe that all the different parts of the lifestyle BDSM, the gangsters, naturalists, you know, swingers, polyamory, we’re all on the same tree.

We’re just different branches. And really, there’s not that much difference between us. We feel like there’s until we start communicating and talking and come to find out, there’s a lot of similarities. Sure. I wanted a place that people could go and listen. And if they had interest in, in poly, they could listen to shows about poly. They had swingers, you know, we have, or erotica or, or whatever the case may be. And that was where the radio station came in. Sure. In, in a perfect world, I would love someday to take.

And because I’m old. So, you know, downloads, my kids had to explain, but you’re

Speaker 1 (27m 30s): Not.

Speaker 2 (27m 33s): I feel like my kids remind kids.

Speaker 1 (27m 34s): I’m 65 in October, bro. So

Speaker 2 (27m 40s): Now I can’t use I’m old stop man though. No,

Speaker 1 (27m 43s): You can’t sorry.

Speaker 2 (27m 44s): My, my kid, my kid, you thought I was 110. They’re like, dad, why are you touching a computer? Yeah. But you know, we have found a lot of people, Hey, you know, their favorite show. They, they love our show. Well, then they have stuck around and they listened to what’s on before and after. And all of a sudden they’re finding, Hey, here’s this show. I never knew anything about, well, you know what? I have interest in cut holding. Like, that’s an example. You know, we have green cut holds podcast on there, or, you know, learn more about poly. So in the grand scheme of things, the perfect world is someday to take.

And you, instead of needing pod bean and, and the rest of ’em, that you’re gonna be able to go and find everything you want. And you’re gonna wanna have the radio station going all day long. That’s the goal we threw into the mix. We have vanilla Sunday. So our shows on Sundays are just regular shows.

Speaker 1 (28m 35s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (28m 35s): And we did that such

Speaker 1 (28m 37s): As such as

Speaker 2 (28m 39s): The traveler barefoot traveler is on there. We have malice is on there. We have no show those five guys. That’s, that’s awesome. Just we have everything from a health wellness show, travel show, sports show, crime mystery show, a SIM movie reviewing show, just regular shows.

Speaker 1 (29m 1s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (29m 3s): And, and again, it, it takes courage for some of those shows to come on this station, but it’s again, to prove that point of, Hey, look,

Speaker 1 (29m 12s): Crossover. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29m 14s): We’re all still people,

Speaker 1 (29m 15s): Right? Sure. Absolutely. Do you ever feel like Kaba Inc has too many moving parts? You like laughs.

Speaker 2 (29m 26s): It is a great time that you asked me that question because we have our crazy summer nights event coming up August 5th through the seventh, which is my birthday weekend and one of our three big national events. So yes, There are times we’ve got our fingers in an awful lot of, of different places and it can, it can seem overwhelming. Right. And yet when I’ve looked at and we’ve talked about, you know, where do we wanna pull back? There’s nowhere that I want to, we wanna pull out of.

And so now the focus has been more on how we can grow the internal organization to better handle the growth of all the external components. Right. And which is a challenge it’s, I’m kind of a control freak. So that’s a learning curve a little bit for me, but we just, you

Speaker 1 (30m 18s): Know it.

Speaker 2 (30m 19s): Yeah. Yeah. I’m willing to embed it. And if I’m not willing to admit it, Amanda, after 30 years will happily tell it to me. Yes. But there’s just, there’s not a place that we go, you know, we don’t enjoy doing this aspect anymore. So the biggest thing I get now is I do get the miss. Amanda actually owns CAS bank. She’s the, she’s the CEO of the company. So I, I am on a leash a little bit that if I come up with other things I do now have to, I’m not allowed to just surprise her with that.

I do now have to check it with her before I make announcements of, oh, by the way,

Speaker 1 (30m 55s): Gotta check with the head office. Good job. Good job. Keep, keep some marriage going. Right. Very much so. And I should give the standard, disclaimer, since you mentioned event an event in August that will have passed by the time this runs, but that’s okay. I’m sure. I’m sure it will go well. So be besides the song, what does Kaba mean or stand for?

Speaker 2 (31m 19s): So we, we, for a long time, we wouldn’t tell anybody. And the way that the, the name came about, the way crazy Kaba came about is we were, we had used Kaba as our username when we first got in the lifestyle for like some of the websites we were on. Right. And we would go to party in an Iowa and they’re like, oh, the crazy couple from Nebraska’s coming. That’s crazy

Speaker 1 (31m 44s): Camo again. I’m just, I’m just, I’m just trying to get this visual of, of, of lifestyle parties in Iowa. But anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (31m 52s): So the funny thing is we, we ran contests for years. We wouldn’t tell anybody for years what camo meant, just, and, and the guess is that people had, were, were amazing. But actually what Kaba means, Kaba stands for Cole, Amanda, Sebastian bra, and Holden. So it’s actually us and our kids.

Speaker 1 (32m 14s): Nice. So

Speaker 2 (32m 15s): We had used it for our email for years and years before we ever gotten a lifestyle. Right. Our kids are all grown and, and our kids know what we do, but as when they were going through that stage, it was like, okay, well, here’s something really important to remember when you’re, you know, clicking on websites and whatnot. If it says CSBA, I probably wouldn’t open it. Just

Speaker 1 (32m 38s): There you go. And you know, and now that, that brings about a question when you’re in the lifestyle, it, it can be kind of sensitive. Sometimes. Has, have you shared this with, with your entire family?

Speaker 2 (32m 55s): Yes, actually. So we are completely out. We’re completely out. Okay. Our, our, the way our, our kids found out our oldest one was already had already graduated from high school and our middle one was a senior in high school. And when we first started, we used to cam on, on, on adult friend finder every night, we, every night we cam for we’d have sex for an hour and then talk for three hours. We had a show. It was like a precursor to where we’re at now. And then we would shut the computer down at night. Well, it didn’t shut down one night.

So the next morning our middle one got up to go to school to check his Facebook and put up in there as a picture of his mom. You couldn’t see her head, but you could see a butterfly tattoo that she has, that he designed. It’s like time to chat. So for a lot of years they knew whatever. And that was fine. Two years ago, my mom and dad were at our house for Christmas and, and we have a studio in our house and we had kind of blocked off. We just moved and mom started poking around and, and didn’t say much, but we would always go on Christmas morning.

There was a casino in the one. They always did the big buffet things, you know? Yeah. And we were standing in line and all of a sudden we’re standing there and my brother and his family are there. And my mom and dad and our kids, and this guy comes running up and she goes, oh my God, it’s you guys, it’s you? Oh my God. And gives us a big hug. She’s a waitress, takes pictures with us and goes away. And so of course my family’s looking at us like, you know, and we’re just like, you don’t really know what to say.

It’s like, well, yeah, I think we’ve met her somewhere. You know, you’re just kind of, kind of come excuses. We go and we sit down to eat and all of a sudden she went and told another staff member who was also on our page.

Speaker 1 (34m 45s): Oh, geez. Who

Speaker 2 (34m 46s): Comes running up and asks us to sign some stuff.

Speaker 1 (34m 50s): Oh

Speaker 2 (34m 50s): No. And get pictures with us. And it’s like, okay. It’s like, be careful. What do you really wanna know? Be careful what you ask. And oh, they kind of wanna know. So we, we kind of danced around the subject a little bit. We didn’t explain the magnitude of it. The following month was our crazy winter nights. And it was our largest crazy winter nights that we’d had at that point and had a thousand people. And they had come up, they went up past where the hotel was and there was all these signs and they saw Kaba. And so then it’s like, okay, what is going on?

It’s like, all right. Time to be just laid all out there. And so we did. And so we just laid it all out there. It’s interesting explaining, trying to explain to your parents, you know, polyamory. I mean, there, every stereotype they’re hitting, but you know, my brother, my brother he’s older. He has questions, but he just kinda, he wants to ask, but he really doesn’t every now and then my mom, actually, we she’ll ask all the time how the events are going. And she was in the hospital this last year.

My dad had passed away and was in the hospital with broken hip. And we put out on the page and a whole bunch of our members sent her get well cards and Christmas cards. Oh. And my mom is just, she has fallen in love with our group, you know, on I, these people are, and she’s really opened her mom.

Speaker 1 (36m 9s): They are. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36m 10s): Yeah. So we had to tell her, don’t tell people, let’s not try to cuz you’re not gonna explain it quite. Right. So just right. But you know,

Speaker 1 (36m 17s): She has, she has a new family. That’s awesome. Yeah. So what’s the biggest misunderstanding about the lifestyle to people who don’t participate in it,

Speaker 2 (36m 28s): What we find. And it’s really funny cuz it’s still the, it, it, it hasn’t changed. It’s that misconception, that one you are, that everything is just a, a, a key party, basically that anytime that you’re with anybody else from the lifestyle, you’re having sex with them, it doesn’t matter who it is. You’re going to have sex with all of them. And it’s just like, they, they just, they don’t understand that that is so far from the truth. I, again, and it’s not their fault.

You can’t, all they’ve ever seen is, you know, key parties or, or that type or those stereotype

Speaker 1 (37m 5s): What’s things. That’s a, that’s a, that’s not a term I’m familiar with.

Speaker 2 (37m 10s): So know key parties.

Speaker 1 (37m 12s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37m 13s): So, so the, the old key parties where they, everybody go to an event and put their house keys or their car keys and a fishbowl. And at the end of the night, the guys would draw keys out. And whoever’s keys. You got that’s who you went and had sex with. I mean, you know, this is like 70 stuff. You know, this kinda stuff would no more happen to the man on the moon now, But there there’s just that people are blown away when they finally ask us. And we tell ’em about things like our Kaba cares program, where, you know, we’ve given away almost $50,000 to lifestyle families and people in need, they’re blown away.

It just doesn’t fit because they’re like, but you have sex with just anybody and everybody it’s like, no, that’s, that’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works. Right. That’s the part that we’re, if we can ever get people over that businesses and regular people, the lifestyle, won’t be such a scary thing.

Speaker 1 (38m 8s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that, and not being a person who’s involved, so I can’t speak totally articulate about it, but knowing enough people who are in the lifestyle and knowing people who organize events in the lifestyle, I’ve got one friend who organizes very high end events in the lifestyle. I, I have enough knowledge to, to say that really more than anything else, they’re social events.

Yes. Where people might have sex,

Speaker 2 (38m 46s): That’s putting it beautifully because that’s exactly what it is that reaches a point that as we age and, and everything else, you know, the, the sex drive changes and, and the whole nine yards. But I can honestly say that for miss Amanda and I, and, and for a lot of people there will reach a point where we won’t play anymore.

Speaker 1 (39m 5s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39m 6s): But we’ll never leave the

Speaker 1 (39m 7s): Lifestyle. And, and by, and by play to, to give people the meaning of that, that means have sex.

Speaker 2 (39m 13s): Right? Yeah. We, we won’t, we won’t have, we won’t have hookups with, with other couples or it would be very, very rare, but we will never leave the lifestyle because the friendships right. And, and that the ability to be relaxed. And there’s just, when we talk about community and, and I, and I apologize, cuz this is gonna sound, you know, there’s not really a, a pretty way to put it. So I’m gonna just put it in the simplistic terms for, to prove the point is then here’s the deal.

If I trust you enough to potentially have sex with my wife And you trust me enough to potentially have sex with your wife, don’t you think that our level of trust and relationship in the rest of our lives is probably a little bit more than, than the average people out on the street? Oh yeah. It takes a different thing. So yeah, the way that I, that I show this is there was a couple in a small town in the Midwest they’ve lived there the whole life. He was paralyzed from a, an accident that he’d had years before he’s worked at the same company for day.

She’s worked in the company forever and day. He was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Okay. They did all the typical, small town, small community fundraisers, which is beautiful young people doing big sales selling. T-shirts all of those things that community raised for them somewhere. It was like eight to $900. Okay. We got involved cuz they were on our page and in one weekend we raised $10,000 for them.

Speaker 1 (40m 49s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (40m 50s): That’s the difference between community, you know, regular list, life, community, community,

Speaker 1 (40m 58s): Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40m 59s): A shared bond and, and that

Speaker 1 (41m 0s): Lifestyle, lifestyle community. Yeah. And it’s, it’s strong. It it’s a, it is, it definitely is very family like

Speaker 2 (41m 9s): Yes can be. And, and, and with any family, you know, you have, you have the occasional dysfunction. You have, you have the normal parts of society.

Speaker 1 (41m 17s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (41m 18s): But for the most part, there’s just a different level of trust and communication. That’s required to be successful in the lifestyle. You know, we had our car one time and, and some friends of ours in the lifestyle, let us loan just a car for three weeks.

Speaker 1 (41m 36s): Geez.

Speaker 2 (41m 37s): I, I mean, that’s just the level of, of you know, of relationships, so sure. It’s, it’s a beautiful thing. It can be

Speaker 1 (41m 45s): Absolutely. Now where do you, Seeba being in five years and where would you like to take it besides, besides rolling the world? Of course.

Speaker 2 (41m 56s): Yeah. Yeah. That, that goal has never went away completely. You know, where I see us and, and is, is to continue to be, I, I, it used to be, I only wanted to see us in front, but my vision has changed. We may be on the fringe. We may be in the middle. We may be in the front, but in five years from now, we will continue to be the loudest voice for positive change, for education, for consent, for testing, for safety and, and, and to a degree.

And this is gonna sound really weird. I, you know, I, I truly believe that we’ll be leading that’s, that’s what I’m all about is to, is continue to be that pied Piper, but we’re going to, no matter what, continue to be the thorn in the side that does not allow the lifestyle to become complacent and to go well, yeah, this is probably good enough, right. We have an obligation to take what we’ve done in the Midwest and take that same concept, that same energy and enthusiasm and, and change and have it spread across the world.

Quite honestly, it definitely from coast to coast. And, and that’s really what I think where we’ll continue to be. And, and hopefully the things like the radio stations that, that, you know, will be known as that company, 50 years from now, you know, when, when I’m long gone, when they go, those were the ones that, you know, they always pushed education and the lifestyles better because they kept pushing for growth.

Speaker 1 (43m 35s): Absolutely. If you’re not growing, you’re going backward. Right.

Speaker 2 (43m 39s): That’s right. Very much. So. Very much so.

Speaker 1 (43m 42s): Well, Cole, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adults, I broker talk and I hope a chance. I will have a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (43m 49s): Absolutely. Thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to come on and, and talk. It is greatly appreciated. And, and I sincerely enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (43m 57s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. Tell them how well has your content been protected from piracy and what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy take down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer your affiliates, the more tools you offer, the more successful they’ll be.

What is your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on the site. Do you use billing or affiliate software like NATS? What’s your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day?

Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the D or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend to produce or buy the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your website? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all of the websites you’re selling. In addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information, have them sign a non-disclosure agreement.

If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers. Like, I don’t know. Maybe adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours, and they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price in any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course, we’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week, we’ll be speaking with Robert Warren of 2much.net. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Kole Snodgrass. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with adult performer Coralyn Jewel.

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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale a content company that stood the test of time. They recently redesigned and relaunched their site with a completely new front and back end and an all new automated FTP system.

Since that time sales have soared, the site now has over 50,000 scenes and photo sets, 10,000 DVDs, and over 10,000 models. Their content represents the top studios in the adult industry. They have exclusive content with some of their studios and thousands of raw HD scenes yet to be used plus close to 10,000 HD scenes that can generate revenue from VOD or PPV. This company can be kept as is or turned into a massive tube site membership site, or clip store with an incredible amount of content.

Only $1.75 million. Now time for this week’s interview my guest today by popular demand on adult site. Broker talk is coral and jewel for the third time. Corallin thanks for being back with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 33s): Thank you for having me back today. How are you?

Speaker 1 (2m 35s): I’m good. How you doing?

Speaker 2 (2m 37s): I’m good. Good.

Speaker 1 (2m 38s): Now Corallin is a number one international best selling author of the book when the ice melts the story of coral and jewel, as well as a working porn star, retired competitive athlete porn director, swing club owner. This is about where I usually run outta breath, fitness trainer, wedding planner, talent manager, voiceover actress, coach, and motivational speaker. And I’m sure I’ve probably missed a few now. Corland is the epitome of a strong, powerful female entrepreneur. Follow her coaching training session, speaking engagements and book signing schedule on her newly launched site, Corin jewel.com as well as social media.

Corallin also has a very popular podcast, the hanky hanky podcast, which I’ve actually been a guest on. You can find it at not surprisingly hanky Pany podcast.com and now she’s lead spokes model for a new adult social media platform. Pinter’s that’s spelled P I N X S T E R S. So I’m always tired after doing that bio.

Speaker 3 (3m 45s): I don’t blame you.

Speaker 1 (3m 47s): So, so Corland since publishing your book, what have you been up to the past couple years?

Speaker 3 (3m 53s): Oh, goodness. I mean all, everything that you just said, you know, I published my book. I’m about to really, I’m getting ready to publish a second book, right. Turning the first book into a documentary, and then let’s see. And then I’ve just been really focusing on building a new website and putting together my coaching packages and traveling and doing my seminars. I’m busy.

Speaker 1 (4m 14s): You’ve been traveling a lot too.

Speaker 3 (4m 16s): I have, I have, I went to the, for exotica last year and I’m scheduled to go to them again this year. Wow. I’ve just completed Chicago and Miami, I believe is next month. Let’s see. I’ve done. XBI gosh, I can’t even think XBI was just happened like two weeks ago. And then I was at X three, which is like part of the XBI and then right. I was at the Y not convention. So yes, I can’t remember where I’ve been traveling anymore.

Speaker 1 (4m 39s): Right. That doesn’t surprise me based on all the, based on all the, the travel you’ve been doing. And I should tell people we’re recording this at the end of may and it will be running a few months from now. Now tell us a little bit about your second book and when it will be available.

Speaker 3 (4m 57s): So, okay. So my first book, a lot of people would come to me and say they really enjoyed the first book, but they wished that I had put more detail regarding swinging and things that happened at the swingers club that I own. And then sometimes people would say to me, they wish there was more stories about the brothel or more stories about the, about porn. And so what I decided to do is each book is gonna now be a series. That’s gonna focus on just one aspect of the adult world. So this one is focusing on everything that I’ve experienced and seen as a participant in the swinger lifestyle community, as well as running my own community, which I started in 2012.

So it’s talking about everything from the good, the bad, the ugly, the lawsuits, the staff, all that kinda stuff.

Speaker 1 (5m 41s): Now tell me, I mean, you must be able to relate and maybe you can give us a little bit of a preview, some stories that, that you’ve experienced in, in this swinger’s lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (5m 56s): Okay. Well, so what I, what I try to do is when I’m coaching people, or when I’m doing my podcast or my articles or my book, it’s everything that I’m, you know, I want it to be an education. So it’s, it’s a learning. So I want people to learn and walk away with something. So, you know what I, the book talks about, I’ll give you an example, the book we’ll talk. One of the stories I talk about is a couple who they were constantly having fights at my events. And so they’ve been married 30 years and my security was constantly coming to me and saying, you know, Corland, we’ve got another argument that needs to be broken up and I’d have to go over there and, you know, ask them what the problem was and tell them to, you know, fast hold the drama until they got home.

And I finally told them that they were not welcome back at my events until they did a coaching session with me, cuz I had to get to the bottom of what the deal was. Wow. And after we had, we had six sessions, we had one together, two alone with each of them and then, you know, back together. And what I came to the conclusion was was that she was very shy. And so in order for her to come out of her shell, she would drink alcohol. And sometimes over-indulge in it where he was like Mr. Social butterfly, but he would push her and put her into positions that were uncomfortable. So they’d be in the jacuzzi and he’d say, oh, go ahead, go touch my wife, touch my wife.

And she’d say, please, don’t like, just do, don’t do that to me. Don’t give permission to touch me. And he’s like, oh, you like it, you like it. And so he realized what he was doing wrong and she realized it, you know, the overindulging. And so they both made an adjustment. And about six months later, they were at an event with me. We were sitting in the jacuzzi, hanging out and there was a couple sitting across from us. And the couple the girl was like, I’m brand new. I wanna ride your motor bunny Corland but I’m, you know, I don’t wanna do it with people around. And I said, no problem, when you’re ready, you know, I’ll go and I’ll show you how to use it privately. So as soon as she was ready, she says, okay, Colin, I’m ready. So the husband says everybody, my wife’s gonna go ride the motor buddy.

Let’s go watch her. And the other couple that I coached, looked at me and he goes, oh my God, he’s me and my wife’s her. And I go, exactly. That’s what you used to do. So, you know, I was a good learning lesson. So I, I put stories like that in my book, you know?

Speaker 1 (7m 58s): Wow. So the counseling obviously really helped.

Speaker 3 (8m 3s): Yes. Yeah. And they’re very happy. They’re very happy together. And that’s, I recommend counseling for almost anybody. Who’s either going to get involved in the lifestyle or if you’re in it, but you guys are already having issues, you know, then you need to, you need to get to the bottom of those quickly because it’s not supposed to be to save your marriage. That’s not what it’s there for. It’s supposed to enhance and add excitement, but you’ve gotta be careful cuz you’re playing with fire. If you don’t play the right way, you’ll get burned. So

Speaker 1 (8m 28s): Yeah. I mean, are there some people who get into the lifestyle who shouldn’t

Speaker 3 (8m 34s): Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there’s people that get into the lifestyle because they think that this is the only way to save their marriage because you know, they, they either have cheated or have thoughts of cheating. There’s people that get into the lifestyle. A lot of the wrong reasons, you know, there’s so many wrong reasons, but then there’s right. Reasons too. But you’ve gotta know, you’ve gotta know how to navigate your way through. I just coached somebody today. Who’s interested him and his wife 14 years married. And so, you know, we, we go through the warning signs that they need to be, they need to know because when I got into the lifestyle and I’m ultimately a divorce because of it, my husband and I were married and we got involved in it and that’s because nobody taught us the wording signs and we didn’t really know the rules.

We didn’t know the etiquette. And so we screwed up.

Speaker 1 (9m 20s): Yeah. Do you, do you find often that one partner or another kind of pushes the other into it?

Speaker 3 (9m 30s): Yes, I do see that. Not, not so often. Okay. But it seems to be the couples that having are having the issues. Those seem to be the ones that when I get down to the bottom of it, the wife’s just doing it so that, you know, she’s to please her husband or vice versa. But also there’s so many different variations and aspects of being involved in the swinger lifestyle community. It’s not just about going and having sex with another couple or another person there’s, you know, there’s Vos and exhibitionist and stuff like that.

So that’s another thing that I teach couples is just because you wanna embark on this, that you, you might not know what you like and you, you’re not gonna know until, you know, fantasy meets reality. And if you don’t like what, you know, what that fantasy was, then maybe there’s something else in it for you. Like just the open-mindedness or something like that. So,

Speaker 1 (10m 20s): So do, do you find that a lot of people are like really surprised what they find when they, when they go to their first swingers party?

Speaker 3 (10m 29s): Yes. Yes. So especially depending on which you know, which, which, which event you’re going to, which part of your community, the, the misconception is that people really, really do feel like it’s an open free for all, you know, just couples going and there’s just people having sex everywhere. And that’s kind of what society’s made us think. And that’s why, you know, society downplays, swingers and lifestyles and such bad people, you know? Yeah. And the fact of the matter is the way I describe it is imagine that you’re going to a wedding and there’s DJ and there’s dancing and there’s decorations and there’s party favors and there’s catering, but then there just happens to be play rooms.

And if you wanna go and you know, be intimate and play, then you have the opportunity to go and do so.

Speaker 1 (11m 8s): Hmm. I mean, do a lot of people not partake in the sex part at all? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11m 12s): Yep. A lot of people don’t a lot of people, I think there’s, you know, I’ve got, I’ve got about 20,000, I think members in my community right now. And I would be comfortable to say maybe, you know, a little less than half don’t don’t don’t participate in anything sexual at the events. Sometimes people too, they just like to go and meet people there and then they take it to, you know, a private area like their hotel room or something. Sure.

Speaker 1 (11m 33s): Now, now what, what do you mean by your community? Are you talking about connected to your club?

Speaker 3 (11m 39s): Nope, I’m talking about, so over since I started my club in 2012, in order to attend an event, they must have a profile on my website and they must have a valid profile. Like they have to have a membership paid for, to it when they’re attending an event, if their membership runs out and they’re not attending an event, they still have access to the website. So over the course of, since 2012, there’s 20,000 app, 20,000 profiles are on my site. Wow.

Speaker 1 (12m 3s): That’s awesome.

Speaker 3 (12m 4s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12m 5s): So, so what was the reason you decided to do a documentary? I mean, maybe you can share a bit about it and when you expect it to be available.

Speaker 3 (12m 15s): Okay. So the documentary has been an absolute nightmare. In all honesty, I was approached by a director from New York on Facebook that actually said that he’d read my book and really, really thought that I should put it into a documentary. Okay. And I said, I was not interested that I just didn’t have the finances and I didn’t have the time to dedicate to that. And so we made an agreement that he said, you know, if you can do this for me, for my documentary, I will help. I will edit your documentary and I will help you and be there with you through the whole filming process.

So the past two years, Jay crew was my, he operated the camera and we filmed, you know, different scenes throughout LA. One of my old ice skating students. She plays me as a younger Colan. My music producer is also play. He plays my husband. And then a lot of people that are in the movie or in my documentary were the actual people that they’re playing themselves. And then they also take place at the, like the dance club, the strip club that I first started dancing at. It’s still there. We filled it there and the managers still there and he was played himself in, in the documentary.

So now we are in editing and, but we’ve gone through three editors because what happened was the guy that made this whole promise to me, backed out, backed out. So, yeah. And so it’s been a, and then somebody else said they would do it and then they backed out. So I’m on my third editor right now. And I, again, he’s a good friend of mine, so I told him, please, don’t back out and it’s all about, so the documentary is, it’s really based on my book for the most part. Right. Except that the only difference is that we’re now adding in more detail and, and we’re, you know, really trying to get across the, the significance of the different events and how they occurred.

Speaker 1 (13m 56s): Hmm. Okay. Now, why do you feel that pin Xers decided to make you their spokes model?

Speaker 3 (14m 5s): So they came to me, I believe they originally came to me on, I’m gonna say Twitter, but I’m not positive. Okay. And that’s because I have my, you know, my message is don’t judge, you can’t, don’t judge, don’t judge people by the, you know, lifestyle relationship, lifestyle that they lead, whether they live a polyamory lifestyle, a swinger lifestyle, BDSM, kink. And then, and then if they work in the adult industry and all very different variations of being involved in, you know, the adult industry. And so I’m very much about, you know, not judging a book by its cover.

And I, you know, and I portray that in my articles and through the guests that I bring on my podcast to show that just because somebody’s an adult performer doesn’t mean they were sexually abused or they’re drug addicts, and I’ve brought on performers to prove, you know, I just had, I just had Leanna Lovings on who’s, you know, a double major in biology and neuroscience and, you know, grew up in a religious family. And she’s been in only a year just to prove to people that you can’t judge. And so that’s what society is doing this with all the social media right now, and shadow banning anybody that’s in the adult industry.

And I think it’s disgusting and it’s awful. And I think that’s why they came to me.

Speaker 1 (15m 13s): Some of the so-called adult platforms are doing it too. Right.

Speaker 3 (15m 20s): Yeah. What they’re doing is they’re really making it, you know, because they’re getting so much pressure from the MasterCard, you know, in the merchant class. So they, you know, they, I understand that they have to have precautions. I get that. Sure. But they’re making it as impossible. They’re just making you go through leaps and who, you know, just jump through hoops to get the, to get your content on their site. The worst one, honestly, I’ll site is only fans and that’s because of course doesn’t even have anywhere in there for us to upload the IDs. So there’s, so I don’t understand what they want you to do.

They want you to like sit there and now email them separately. Okay. This is the video I just uploaded. This is the paperwork. This is the IDs. Seriously. Yeah. And what they’ve done is that there are producers and, and studios that have had content on there for, you know, eight years. And they wanted them to go back and locate all the different performers and have them sign the only fans model release. And they will not release the money to these studios unless they get those papers signed again by these models who have some, have retired passed away, whatever it may be.

So it’s just, it’s disgusting. It’s absolutely. They make it some, my, my stuff’s on there there’s you can’t find anything on my only fans that involves another person. It’s just me. Sure.

Speaker 1 (16m 34s): Where do you see the entire fan site clip site industry going? Because it has, there have been a lot of changes lately. Obviously a lot of changes to only fans, but then the others have kind of had to follow. And again, yeah. And you, you talk about the pressure from, you know, the card companies. I mean, where do you, where do you see this all going?

Speaker 3 (17m 5s): So, you know, one thing I can say, and I, I really do believe in this. I do believe this is that no matter what society and media and anybody tries to do with the adult industry and make porn and illegal and knock us down here and knock us down there and you know, they’re never gonna fucking win. I’m sorry, but they’re not because sex sell and sex is everywhere. And whether or not people wanna admit that they indulge in it or watch it or are intrigued by it. Okay. It’s there. And by making it not there. Okay. So by, you know, by trying, they’re gonna, there’s gonna end up being more people prostituting on the streets and there’s gonna be more rapes and stuff like that.

Because if people can’t go and fulfill their role, play in their fantasies on webcam and stuff like that, then how else are they? They gonna do it, right. They’re gonna look at other measures. So the society, and then they need to freaking knock it off already. And if you’re not hurting anybody. And the only thing that I dis that I, that I agree with a hundred percent is no porn should be free and accessible without somebody adding, uploading their own ID, proving that they too are over the age of 18.

Speaker 1 (18m 11s): So, so age verification.

Speaker 3 (18m 13s): Absolutely. But I mean, age verification where somebody just clicks and says, oh yeah, I’m 18. You know where they go? Yeah. That that’s, I, I don’t really believe in that my website has the same thing actually, but to access my content, you have to sign up. So you can’t see anything for the fact like chatter BA that you can just go on there. My son he’s 14 can go on there and just watch for free to me is disgusting. It’s disgusting. Yeah. And so I agree with that. We need to fix that. And I don’t know why we haven’t made it the same way us as performers have to upload our ID and prove that we are over the age of 18 with a picture, the ID next to the face.

Why do the viewers not have to, they should have to as well,

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): Well, I, a hundred percent agree. I mean, I don’t have children, you have children, you, so, so it’s, it’s more personal for you and putting that aside for a second, how much of the responsibility do you think lies with the parents?

Speaker 3 (19m 8s): Well, I think that you need to be, so I have a very, very open relationship with my children. And I think that it’s very important to do that so that they know they can come to me and discuss with me masturbation, sex, condom, safe, sex, whatever. It may be STDs without sure. Fearing any kind of judgment. And what I notice, especially in my seminars is how many younger, you know, people come to my seminars and they’re maybe they were Jehovah’s witness. And their parents have told them that the, you know, they’re not welcome at home anymore, or they just wanna embrace their sexuality.

And they’ve been told that masturbation and pleasure yourself is bad. It’s a bad thing to do. Yeah. And so we’ve got, you know, so that, I think that lays on the parents. Okay, sure. Making your, these, these kids. I mean, I, I work for Dr. Susie’s Institute and I’m a chat agent for her. And mostly what I do is men will call in and they wanna talk to somebody. Who’s not gonna judge them about a kink or a fetish or something that’s going on in their minds without judgment, because they can’t, you know, I have a, there’s a 21 year old that calls and he’s got some major, you know, issues and it pisses me off.

Yeah. Cause that’s his parents’ fault. So that’s where that lies. But as for the porn, you know, I, I know that my, my son watches it. I know he does, but it’s easily, easily accessible. And I think under the age of 18, it should not be, you shouldn’t be able to access it. But

Speaker 1 (20m 29s): No, I, I agree. How much, how much of, of all that do you think can be pointed at religion?

Speaker 3 (20m 36s): A lot, A lot, a lot, a lot. And I grew up Jewish. I grew up, you know, private school and everything. Yeah. But if people don’t start to realize this, EV almost everybody that I counsel, like I counsel for, for the industry or for, you know, tell me that they came from a religious family where it was so shoved down their throat, you know, you will get married to one person. You will live a nog. And then what if people do, soon as they turn 18, they turn, you know, they, they code the complete opposite direction that they were forced to be in.

Yeah. So

Speaker 1 (21m 8s): Yeah. Going,

Speaker 3 (21m 9s): I believe,

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Go ahead. Sorry.

Speaker 3 (21m 11s): I believe in, I was gonna say, I believe in being spiritual and I think it’s good to have, you know, that, that I say religion, but I think it’s more spirit. It’s good to have, you know, that spiritual connection. Yes. But to, to make people think that sex is bad and masturbation is bad and you know, is, is causing major issues. We’re going backwards is what we’re doing.

Speaker 1 (21m 31s): Sure. Yeah. And the whole, you know, prosecution of sin in our country, it looks like the whole marijuana thing going in the right direction. Thank goodness hell. Here in Thailand, they’re, they’re even in the process of legalizing marijuana, which God knows nobody ever thought that would happen. Interesting for, for a drug where they used to put people in the slammer for. Right.

Speaker 3 (21m 55s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (21m 55s): Isn’t that crazy? Well for selling, they used to kill people for it here. They don’t do that anymore.

Speaker 3 (21m 59s): So, you know, somebody had a point the other day, somebody said, can you believe I can get marijuana delivered to my house, but I can’t get a pack of cigarettes. And I was like, that’s a very interesting analogy. You know?

Speaker 1 (22m 9s): Well, cigarette cigarettes are another matter. We probably won’t agree on, but anyway, oh

Speaker 3 (22m 13s): No, no. They’re discussing an awful habit. Awful, awful, awful. Agreed.

Speaker 1 (22m 17s): Agreed. And you know, you also were talking about regulations and how they’ll force people, you know, to do other things. I think fo the fo CTA law is probably the greatest example of how it’s absolutely. Yeah. What it’s done to the escort sites. And now there’s more, now there’s more street prostitution, prostitutes get murdered. I mean, it just doesn’t work.

Speaker 3 (22m 48s): Yeah. I, I just dunno what they’re thinking. I mean, we’d all know that people have, the prostitution has been around forever. Okay. And, you know, legalizing it with paying taxes would be the smartest way to do it. Sure. But, you know, instead, and then these sites that have been set up where they, you know, you can get reviews on the, on the, on the client, you can get reviews on the provider and, and you know, and at least there’s these safety precautions that are in there. Whereas now that they’re making that so difficult, well, girls are just gonna go walk the street again.

Speaker 1 (23m 18s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23m 18s): People do what they have to do,

Speaker 1 (23m 20s): Or they’re gonna go on a site that somehow, cuz they’re doing a whackamole with them. They’re gonna go on a site and somehow meet up with somebody and maybe get murdered.

Speaker 3 (23m 30s): Right. Well we hope, you know, I just hope, you know, I always, if there’s any providers that are ever listening and don’t know how to run background checks, I encourage them to contact me for free. And I’ve got a variety of different ways to do so I used to work as a, as a private detective. And so I’ve got some insider information and so I run checks all the time for people.

Speaker 1 (23m 47s): Fantastic. Well, I hope people will take advantage of that. Now, in addition to your books, your documentary and Pinter, I understand you developed and talked a little bit about it last time, a C B D personal lubricant, how’s that working out for you?

Speaker 3 (24m 4s): It’s going good. You know, that, that was a definitely a new business venture for me to embark on. It’s not my specialty. You know, I had to find out all these different, I, I didn’t realize that CBD. So marketing CBD and making a CBD product is one marketing lube and a lubricant product is another. But when you put them together, it’s considered a medical device. So I had no idea how hard insurance would be on it. And the only good thing is is that we, we extracted the THC for mine.

And even though under 0.03% is okay to have, I did that because a lot of my fan base or military and military will not even touch like a CBD bath bomb because they just worry that they’ll still test for the TC. Right. Sure. You know? Sure. And so we just extracted it. So that’s, so my loop’s going good. You know, it was a, it was a two year process of trying to find something well, trying to put together a, a product that with all the things that I don’t like about lubes, I don’t like so they’re sticky or that they have an awful smell, awful taste. And so, you know, that’s what we were trying to nail.

And I think we did, we did nail it so

Speaker 1 (25m 11s): Fabulous. Now where can listeners purchase your products and follow your career?

Speaker 3 (25m 16s): So the easiest thing is I’ve now lodged a brand new website. And so everything is on there. So instead of needing to go to the hanky pinky podcast.com for the podcast, and then going to Jules CBD lubricant for the loop, they now just go to Corland jewel.com. And on there they can access my coaching, my adult content, you know, they have a, there’s a membership site for that. They can access my podcast, my blogs, my shop, my tour schedule everything. And so it’s really made it a lot more accessible as it’s an all in one platform it’s taken, you know, it’s trial and error of course, like everything, but it’s definitely making things easier for my fan base.

Speaker 1 (25m 56s): Tell me the main reason you launched the website and how it’s working out for you

Speaker 3 (26m 1s): Launched the website most, pretty much for what I said, because, you know, I was, I had all these different websites and platforms. I was Mon you know, I was taking care of my Juul CBD lubricant, but then I was on, I had Kajabi for the website and that was only coaching. You couldn’t have any adult content over there. So then I was trying to put my adult content somewhere else and it’s just, it was just too much to handle. And so, and then, and then the coaching I needed, you know, the coaching somewhere, the store, oh, the store. I couldn’t have my store on Kajabi because you can’t put a, a lubricant on there. So if I could put everything together into one, so it definitely was a lot of work putting together this

Speaker 1 (26m 37s): Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26m 38s): Putting together this website,

Speaker 1 (26m 40s): Talk about the, the, the process of putting a site that intricate together and a

Speaker 3 (26m 48s): Lot of fighting

Speaker 1 (26m 49s): How it went.

Speaker 3 (26m 51s): So I’m working with someone in Portugal, so we’re on different, different time zones. Right. So that’s the one issue is that, you know, at two o’clock in the morning when he’s got questions, I’m ready for bed. And so there was a lot of Allnighters cause wait

Speaker 1 (27m 3s): A minute, wait a minute. You sleep.

Speaker 3 (27m 5s): I do sometimes, but wow. Not a lot with this website. Cause I was up all night last night. That’s what I told you earlier. But yeah. So a lot, a lot of back and forth and, and then, you know, we would agree to put something up and then, and then it wouldn’t work. So it’s trial and error. So for example, people can go on there and they can automatically say, I’d like to, they buy a consultation with me for lifestyle, for example. Okay. Right. And then they can actually book their through the Cal, you know, through the calendar program, they can book. So, but what happens is yesterday at two, in the afternoon, I decide that I’m gonna go to the store and in comes a thing that books me for three o’clock consultation.

So oops, okay. That doesn’t work. Right. So I had to contact the web guy and be like, okay, nevermind. That’s not a good idea. We need to have it that they purchase. And then I contact them to schedule them in because yes, I’m not gonna sit home and wait. So

Speaker 1 (27m 53s): Yeah. Sometimes automated has its drawbacks.

Speaker 3 (27m 57s): Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (27m 59s): So what other challenges have you gone through and putting the site together? And the reason I ask is because so many people, when they put together websites, they don’t realize that it isn’t that easy.

Speaker 3 (28m 11s): It’s not easy. And, and again, like I said, there’s things that we have done on there and then they don’t work and then we pull them, or, you know, in the beginning we were uploading every, all the content to an outside server called a digital ocean and then digital ocean, wasn’t connecting with the WordPress. And so the videos weren’t playing and, you know, and it was all these like issues. Right. But you know, I think we’ve nailed them out for the most part, trying to think. And then, but yeah, lots and lots and lots of challenges.

And we’re still, we’re still going through challenges for sure.

Speaker 1 (28m 43s): Yeah. They, they don’t end when you launch the site because then always you, you always will come across things that need to be tweaked and fixed. It’s an ongoing process and it never ends, unfortunately. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28m 57s): And then, you know, we’ve got, I’ve got like affiliate, I, I say affiliate programs, but you know, I’ve got for my podcast, I have companies that I do advertising for on the podcast. And then, you know, people can try out their swinger site for free. So now we needed somewhere for people to access that, to access the links. So we had to add a partner’s page. And so people couldn’t find it because it was in the dropdown menu. So, you know, it’s all about, okay, well we’re, you have to put yourself as though you’re a three year old trying to navigate your way through a website. Yes. That makes sense.

So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): Oh it does. Because I say that and I say that in my broker tips on my, on this podcast, when I talk about looking at your own website and looking at it like a user, not as a developer, that’s the last thing that anyone should ever do is go to a web developer and say, Hey, put together a website for me. This is what I want in it. No, you have to be so specific and say, I want this here, this here, this here and this year and

Speaker 3 (30m 0s): They’re involved

Speaker 1 (30m 1s): And this is what I want it to do. And this, these are the capabilities that I want it to have. And in the process, they’ll do something. You’ll go, you know what, now it needs to do this. And what I always suggest to people is have friends who have no part in the industry, you know, just people, you know, go to the website and try it. Okay.

Speaker 3 (30m 28s): It’s exactly, exactly that. I’ll tell you. Here’s a perfect example of that. I had a guy that contacted a client on, you know, one of my webcam clients on Skype and he was just contacting me saying, you know, I cannot figure this out. I can’t figure out how to get back to the homepage. And I go, what do you mean you can’t figure out to get back to the homepage? So we shared the screen and I swear it was only 45 minutes of him and I together. And I go, oh my God, I have no idea where the freaking homepage is. So finally I contact my web guy and he says, it’s your logo in the corner? And I said, and how the hell is, anybody’s supposed to know that he says, everybody knows that.

And I go, I couple shit on that. Cause I didn’t know that.

Speaker 1 (31m 3s): And that’s a great example of a good example, insider knowing this. And I, I know normally that when you click on a logo, that’s gonna take you to the homepage, but it’s still a good idea to have the word home somewhere

Speaker 3 (31m 19s): To, because you have to imagine that whoever is looking at your site has no clue how to navigate through these things. And it’s got to be, you know, click here to register, click here for the newsletter, click here for the blog click here for the podcast. If you don’t say click or whatever, people can’t figure it out. Right.

Speaker 1 (31m 35s): So, absolutely. Let’s talk about your podcast, the hanky pinky podcast it’s been going on for a while. How’s it going? And who have been some of your favorite guests so far besides me? Of course.

Speaker 3 (31m 49s): Yes, of course. Right. It’s going really well. I would say that’s, it’s definitely something I’m very much enjoying. I really, really do enjoy it. Let’s see. I’m on, like, I think I’ve recorded 83 episodes now and

Speaker 1 (32m 2s): That’s great. I got I’m up to I’ve actually, well, I’ve actually released 103, but I’ve got another dozen or so interviews in the can. So there you

Speaker 3 (32m 12s): Go. Yeah. I think that’s what it is. I’ve released 83. I think that’s where we are. Let’s see. Most recent was Jenna star. So, you know, we talked about how, you know, she got discovered by, by Twitter, from BR, from, from brass ears. She was just a working as a cosmetologist, I guess. And then they discovered her then recently had Leanna Lovings just interviewed her yesterday or the day before. Absolute boots, sweetheart. That one is a doll favorite interviews. Hmm.

Okay. It’s hard. I think my most like educational, if I wanna say that are things that really taught me a lot was when I did a whole segment on golden era porn. So Richard Chenko Eric Monty, let me think. Sharon Mitchell. Yeah. Rob Everett, you know, those were really, really neat to Sean Elliot, you know, to learn the, the history behind 42nd street and Plato’s retreat and all these different things that I’d never even heard of.

Speaker 1 (33m 12s): Sure. Yeah. That’s it’s in any industry you need to know the history.

Speaker 3 (33m 17s): Absolutely. Absolutely. And I’m, I’m the girl that doesn’t watch porn. So, but one thing about my, my podcast, which I really try to make known to people is it’s not just people in the adult industry or just couples that are involved in the swinger lifestyle. Right. I try to bring in a variation of scientists and therapists or educators authors to, but anything that has to do with being sex positive. Sure, sure. And another real cool interview with my interview with Dr. Michael Perry, who is, he was a priest turned like instructional sex, sex, sex, instructional DVD.

He did all the directing, but he also got he’s a doctor, you know, sex therapist. And interesting. That was interesting how he went from priest to that.

Speaker 1 (34m 0s): Interesting. Yeah. Maybe he knew more as a priest than, and then he let off. Now, are you still shooting, running your swingers club and working as a wedding planner

Speaker 3 (34m 11s): Still shooting? Yes. Just recently shot. I was in Chicago, so I did two since scenes in Chicago. Yes. I’m still running my swingers club. A lot of my venues closed because of COVID. And so it’s been a, of course, little bit of a challenge to find new locations, but I have a brand new venue I just got in Los Angeles lined up for June 25th for my first event there. Okay. And the weddings, I still have my wedding business available on a like more word of mouth.

That’s the most stressful worst. I love being a wedding planner, but I hate, I hate my brides. I can’t stand. Especially their moms can’t stand what a

Speaker 1 (34m 51s): Shock

Speaker 3 (34m 51s): And I, yeah, I just, and to me it’s just, yeah, it’s just, you know, it doesn’t matter how hard I work or how much I go above and beyond. And, and like I have, I have amazing reviews. I won five start five years in a row, a couple stories, award winner on wedding wire, but it took one bride, one bride just a couple months ago to just put me over the edge. And I came home and I pulled my website. I said, I’m done. I’m absolutely done. One bride can do that to you. So

Speaker 1 (35m 17s): Yeah. Yeah. When they don’t appreciate what you do, sometimes it’s best to move on to the areas that are more fulfilling.

Speaker 3 (35m 25s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35m 26s): So you talk a lot about being a lifestyle coach, so, and, and you, you gave me some examples, but what exactly is a lifestyle coach and you did tell, you did tell me how people can book a consultation, but let’s, let’s, let’s break out something else here. Okay. Okay. Besides what is a lifestyle coach? How does that differ from a licensed counselor?

Speaker 3 (35m 53s): Okay. So that’s the one thing is that, you know, I always make it very clear to people that I’m not a therapist. I’m not, you know, a psychiatrist I’m, you know, not medically, you know, I, no doctorate, no paperwork behind that. I did go and get certified as a master of sexologist. And I did that more because I really wanted to understand some of these fetishes and kinks as a webcam performer, custom video girl, working in a brothel where do these fetishes and Kings stem from, and you know, how can I help somebody work through those?

And so that’s what I did that for. So a lifestyle coach, this is what I always tell people. I don’t believe I don’t care what doctorate I have. I don’t believe that I could counsel or be a therapist or a psychiatrist to someone who is going through being sexually molested or sexual abuse because I haven’t been there and I haven’t walked in their shoes. And so I, I don’t think that I have any right to tell them how to deal with this. Cause I haven’t been there. And with lifestyle I’ve been in the, in the, in the lifestyle as a married woman, as a, you know, a, a couple as a single, as an owner of a club.

And I’ve really seen it a lot, seen a lot. I can’t, I’ll never say I’ve seen it all, you know? Right. But I’ve seen a lot. And so I, I feel more than qualified to guide people and help them navigate their way through it. So lifestyle coaches, like I said, in the beginning, it’s somebody who will help you navigate your way through this journey either as a single or as a couple so that you don’t make the mistakes that I made. I wish somebody had, I, I truly think that my husband and I would’ve still been married had somebody guided us. Yeah, I really do.


Speaker 1 (37m 28s): So it’s so, so it’s strictly for the swinger’s lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (37m 31s): It’s strictly for the Stringer’s lifestyle. I don’t, if you’re yeah. So could I help a married couple? Maybe, you know, if there was, if they were having issues, for example, you know, a sex, a sexless marriage. Okay. Right. Could I help them? Yes. Cause I could probably give them ideas to incorporate role play and stuff like that to entice the relationship and bring the excitement to the bedroom again. Right. But ultimately I focus on the lifestyle community. Okay.

Speaker 1 (37m 55s): Okay. So you talked about the shows you’re gonna be attending. How can people meet you at them?

Speaker 3 (38m 3s): So the easiest thing to see how nice this is, you just go to my website, which is the coral and jewel.com. And then right there, you click on tours and it says, where can you find me? And it’s got everything from my swinger events, meet and greets classes that I’ll be teaching and then the different seminars where they can find me. So if this releases in a couple months, that would probably be four months. Would that be, I don’t know, like July I’m in Miami, July, August, December is Washington DC.

Where’s New Jersey. October’s in New Jersey. Okay. So great.

Speaker 1 (38m 39s): So in addition to piners, are you working with any other companies as a spokesperson or lead ambassador?

Speaker 3 (38m 46s): I’m working with a company out of where are they out? I don’t know where they’re, they’re there in Europe. Okay. But that hasn’t been released yet what we’re doing. So it’s kind of on the download. It’ll probably be out by the time this comes out. So I can probably say something. We are, we’re putting together a call it a PR firm if you want to. Okay. But it’s an all in one. So it’s, it’s it, it’s somebody like me, an adult performer that wants once, you know, once, you know, needs, needs help with press releases once, you know, logo done branding.

So it’s over, it’s an all in one branding business resource company.

Speaker 1 (39m 26s): Interesting.

Speaker 3 (39m 27s): Yes. And not just for the adult industry, Mike, one of our clients right now is a retired football player and we’ve got another client that is a radio podcaster. And so, you know, people come to us and they wanna rebrand and we’ve got my connections and my expertise in one field and then the rest of my team and their connections and you know, like the technical side of stuff. And we’re working on that together. So

Speaker 1 (39m 51s): Another business Corlon my God.

Speaker 3 (39m 54s): I know. I know. I know. I know. And that’s the whole thing that’s going crazy. That’s why I’m so crazy. I need help.

Speaker 1 (40m 0s): Ah, yeah. I think you probably should talk to a counselor about, you know, some, some people are shopaholics. I think you’re an entrepreneur aholic. Maybe

Speaker 3 (40m 9s): I know, but you know, what it was is that it’s that I really felt like we were missing that because, you know, I can find somebody to do my PR, but then if I want my website done, they couldn’t do my website. And then if I wanted to have somebody video my coaching webinars and help me put those on there, they couldn’t do that. And so I found a company and we formed one that could do it all in one. Yeah. Through one stop shop.

Speaker 1 (40m 31s): So what’s next for you? I’m almost afraid to ask.

Speaker 3 (40m 34s): I’m afraid to ask. Yeah. Next, let’s see, getting my documentary done. I have. I’m hoping by what did I give him? I said to, I said, I said New Jersey October by October. I want that released. My second book is just about done. I want that released by October. Then I’ll start my third book. And then really just getting this PR company off the ground, starting to get, you know, let, let, let people know that we’re out there it’s affordable. And I just wanna help everybody, you know, reach their, the best of their ability and their career, whatever it may be without anybody telling them that they can’t do it so

Speaker 1 (41m 10s): Well. You’re certainly a good example of that. Corland I’d like to thank you for being our guest again today on adult site, broker talk and looking forward to part four.

Speaker 3 (41m 21s): Thank you again very much for having me, darling,

Speaker 1 (41m 23s): Always nice to have you. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your site, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation that the potential buyer may wanna find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content, number of images and number of videos.

How much of it is exclusive and how much is non exclusive financial information for at least the last three years. If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports get all the information organized in legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market.

The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything that a potential buyer needs to know such as? Are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts or anything else? Don’t let these things be a surprise to the potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Kole Snodgrass of full swap radio.

And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Coralyn Jewel. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.


Speaker 2 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with comedian and actor Dan Frigolette.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

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That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. A profitable industry, recognized dating network with a unique channel for genuine female adult dating traffic. The company was launched in 2010 and has won multiple awards. They’ve generated nearly 200,000 profiles of real women and continue to add about 5,500 new women.

Each month. These women have created sexy profiles and uploaded photos to attract men and most of supply to government ID. These profiles can be imported into any dating or cam network. The network’s traffic is 91% direct and 8% organic. They’ve never marketed to their lists outside their own network. So this is a huge opportunity for anyone interested in marketing, similar dating offers or other adult content. Their main developer is available to stay on as a contractor, only 372,000 us dollars.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adults side, broker talk is comedian and actor. Dan <inaudible>. Dan, thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk.

Speaker 0 (2m 33s): Hey, what’s going on, man? Thank you for having me again.

Speaker 2 (2m 37s): Yeah, we, we started in Zencaster my recording platform had a little bit of a glitch, so we’re starting over.

Speaker 0 (2m 46s): It was me. I feel like I always feel like I’m the guy.

Speaker 2 (2m 49s): No, it wasn’t you. It was me.

Speaker 0 (2m 51s): Oh, could you see them? Do you see the movie lock on Disney at

Speaker 2 (2m 54s): No,

Speaker 0 (2m 55s): Eric you’re on there. The premise of the whole thing is that there’s book. Good luck and bad luck. There’s a character on there. That’s has only bad luck right now. That’s me. So I think everything that goes wrong right now between what’s going on is me. It’s my fault. Completely. A hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (3m 8s): Okay. I’ll blame

Speaker 0 (3m 9s): Responsibility. Okay.

Speaker 2 (3m 10s): Okay. It’s all your fault. So let’s, let’s tell everyone about you. Dances, Stantec, comic and actor who has been seen on the Bob and Tom show. HBO is boardwalk empire. Show me a hero, younger, sexy beasts, or a younger, sexy beast. Now those are two different things, but following the Wendy Williams show and the RD Lang show is the executive producer of the apartment ship. Dan has played numerous venues and comedy festivals around the country. You got to start in Syracuse, New York, and now he’s in New York city circuit, regular Dan finds joy and traveling the country to small towns to entertain people.

He travels the country with this pit mation tests, raising money for various animal charities and rubbing people’s bellies. His first comedy album naked and amused comedy at a nudist colony came out in late 2017. Dan also has quite a footprint and adult. He hosted the inked awards in 2019, any hosts, the sexy people podcast, formerly porn stars are people on the podcast. Dan hosts, sex positive icons in order to de-stigmatize and normalize sexuality, gender, and feeling comfortable with the human body adult film stars, talk relationships, politics, art animals, friends, family travel, and have a lot of fun doing it all without talking a lot about porn, the sexy people, podcast hopes to humanize comedians, adult stores, and listeners alike to see that life is not just about labels, judgments, and critiques.

So Dan, first off, let’s talk about the podcast. Why did you originally start doing it?

Speaker 0 (4m 48s): I’m so excited that that intro is incredible and hearing it twice as incredible. Each 72, my intro, I like staying in the corner. Like I just scored a touchdown with two fingers in the air.

Speaker 2 (4m 56s): Well, if you want them, if you want to take me on the road with you, I can do, I can do all your, I can do all your introductions or you can just, or you can just buy the tape.

Speaker 0 (5m 6s): Yeah, yeah. And then just play it. No, I want the live guy, all the guys on, on like, like what’s the, what was the guy who introduced Bob Barker? Who’s the guy who introduced Alex. Shabak those guys. Those are big deal, guys. I need that. I need that. I need one of those and just in studio and that’s all you do. You just intro me and then you can fuck off and you made money.

Speaker 2 (5m 28s): It doesn’t pay well,

Speaker 0 (5m 30s): It’s gotta pay. Well, that’s the whole thing we’re going for is hopefully that I can make a career out of this thing. Got it. 60 people podcast. I don’t know, man, you, you kind of nailed it. It was called porn stars or people. I was having trouble with censorship and everywhere on the internet. That wants to be a bad word. Won’t want to be a bad word. Right? And so I was running a show called porn stars or people. And I was running a show called porn stars or comedians alive events at the various sex fairs in the U S and, and porn conventions.

And I would get a flag on the event calendars that said the word porn was, was profanity. And that blew my mind. And having porn being near porn, going to AVN has always gotten me flagged on Instagram. So it’s, it’s just, it’s like the opposite of clickbait. It’s like advertising kryptonite. Right? And so Facebook, Instagram and YouTube have been flagging me nonstop. And so I came and I changed the name to sexy people, podcasts, same from podcasts. But what’s also crazy is in the amount of time that I’ve been doing the podcast, the phrase porn star has become null and void.

So whereas when I started, there was people that would literally walk in there and be like, you’ve got damn right. I’m a porn star now. Everybody’s kind of like, no, I’m like, and we’ve really taken on this sex worker title. And we’ve really taken on, you know, like cam artists or like content or for later. Right. Yeah. And that’s more important than like saying porn star.

Speaker 2 (7m 2s): Right.

Speaker 0 (7m 3s): And so I have to change with the times. So I’m trying to do that.

Speaker 2 (7m 6s): Yeah. And there’s so many attacks, so many attacks to the adult industry. And we’ll talk a little bit about that later. Talk a bit about the adult entertainment industry. It’s really rare to find someone outside the business spend so much time and effort promoting a normalizing it while also having a great understanding of what we do. How do you feel like you came to this point?

Speaker 0 (7m 32s): Well, I’m a dirty little slot and I always wanted to like reconcile some of those feelings and those emotions. And, and, and even like now I’m in therapy. I’m realizing that like a lot of my sexual behavior might be compulsive or like a stress relief and all those sorts of things. So like even the like holistic, I don’t know what better word I want. Like the healthy aspects of sex and masturbation or even things that are like looked down upon and porn for me has always been sort of a mass masturbatory, like, like add on.

So my, the starting point is I need to come. And the finishing point is I need some, some help and some aid. And porn’s always been there for me. Porn always delivers. Right. And so that’s where it came in for me. And so the other thing that I found really interesting once I first initially had the idea to do this thing was, was I started listening to other podcasts that had porn stars on. And I, and I realized the amount of disrespect that porn stars and sex workers were getting on podcasts.

They’re either brought on to, to be a one trick pony. Tell me about giant dicks or they’re literally like treated like their opinion. Doesn’t matter in less, we’re talking about swallowing cock. And I hated that. And what I’ve learned from having the podcast is that, especially in today’s day and age, the BTS and the, the like knowledge of the performer informs the fantasy that people are paying for.

And so if the fantasy is about the actual person, right? If I actually like want Janice Griffith to be my girlfriend in my head, knowing as much about her as possible is really important to me. And that’s the thing I’m going to come about. And four and two. And so there’s a place where my podcast fills that gap a little bit where like, when we get to learn interesting, weird facts like that, Lexi Luna is a grammar Nazi. And I think that’s really fun.

Speaker 2 (9m 38s): Do you anticipate that people are whacking off to your podcast?

Speaker 0 (9m 42s): Th th this is a great question. So in my head, it’s no right then, but then when I look at the data, Advita how long people are listening. I found out that yes, You will be willing to listening to an amount that doesn’t make sense unless they just came. Right. So I think, I think what happens, I think people find my podcast in a search for the person that they want to make them come get static. And they listen to the podcast for a little bit, and they either stay because they’ve enjoyed what they’ve heard or they go away.

And, and so what I hoped to do was to do was to get the guy who wanted to come to Natalie night and retain them. I don’t know if I’ve done that. And I don’t know where the fan base comes from, but I hope it’s, I hope it’s that safe space where, where people are enjoying what they’re hearing and they want to hear more and they want to find out about the other guests. But what I do find a little bit in the trolley YouTube comments is it’s mostly somebody came to see Kimmy Kaboom, and then they don’t like that. I’m even there.

And that’s, those are hilarious listeners.

Speaker 2 (10m 50s): I love it. So the adult industry is under a massive attack by the religious, right? Like we’ve never seen before in our history, they’re going after the credit card companies are trying to shut off our sources of revenue. Give me your thoughts on that.

Speaker 0 (11m 5s): Since this all makes sense to me now, I didn’t know it was happening like that. I would, I would actually like some more background from you, but what I do know for sure is,

Speaker 2 (11m 14s): Well, I mean, did you hear that MasterCard shut down PornHub?

Speaker 0 (11m 19s): No. Yeah. Recently?

Speaker 2 (11m 21s): Yeah. Not too long ago. Yeah.

Speaker 0 (11m 23s): No, I didn’t know that. So I knew the thing that hit me the hardest was only fans trying to pull their, their policy on, on, on adult content and then them backing off because they’re like, oh shit. But I understood a piece that maybe some other people didn’t understand, which is the reason why they were doing that was because they went to investors and investors, just like the people don’t want my buck. As we call porn stars are people. They went to investors and the investors were like, I can’t give you money. And they’re like, why? This is a 5 billion industry.

And they’re like, yeah, but et cetera, whatever the et cetera is. And there’s a thousand, et cetera. And it all based in the idea that, and it’s a good understanding this, the starting point is, well, the Bible says you’re not supposed to, you’re not supposed to. The longer our country exists late. Well, that’s not true. Let’s, let’s rephrase lately. We are more evangelical than ever. I never would have predicted that. I thought we were doing a good job. Even just being in the podcast. I thought we were doing a good job of moving away from like religious fanaticism, but we’re not.

And the last administration really did a number on, on digging us deeper into ideas that I thought we all decided were silly.

Speaker 2 (12m 39s): Yeah. I think it would be who’ve you with your podcast

Speaker 0 (12m 44s): As somebody jumps to move on me

Speaker 2 (12m 47s): To explore that just a tad bit more. I know it’s a little bit off topic, but there are organizations that are really going after adult and they’re being successful and they’re getting a lot of funding because of the religious. Right.

Speaker 0 (13m 8s): And I wish we as an organization, like a group of people, not an organization, but I wish we were a stronger in binding together to become a superpower against that. The amount of money that this industry makes, we should figure out a way to combat.

Speaker 2 (13m 25s): Yeah. I mean, there are there, there’s the free speech coalition that is the legislative arm and they’ve had their successes. Okay. But when, when it’s, when it’s a wave of attacks, it’s very, very difficult to stop. And right now that’s where the industry’s at. I don’t think it’s ever been this bad.

Speaker 0 (13m 49s): Yeah. I mean, well, arguably it was, you know, you know, like all the transition points, it was this bad, you know, hustlers transition point, this bad Playboys transition point this bad every time where we there’s like a little bit of a change and a, and a chunk of progress, somehow they find a way to try to scale us back. And obviously get a period of time when my country wants to repeal Roe V. Wade, of course, anything that could be like sex, sex based.

What’s what’s the big word, prurient, obscene, any of these things they want to be redefined.

Speaker 2 (14m 29s): Right.

Speaker 0 (14m 31s): Horrible time. Apparently it would be for comedy because it’s the same, it’s part of the same idea. It’s this freedom of, of, of expression.

Speaker 2 (14m 39s): Yes.

Speaker 0 (14m 40s): Is the thing that we’re attacking. Yes. And

Speaker 2 (14m 43s): Yeah. I’ll talk. Well, I do. I actually, yeah, I do. I actually do have some, do have some questions about that for you, for you as well, because freedom expression, the first amendment, all of that is under, under major attack. And it all seems to be coming from the same place. So, well, no, not necessarily the same place. That’s not.

Speaker 0 (15m 3s): Are you finding that in other countries? Are you finding that in places that you do business that that’s

Speaker 2 (15m 7s): Oh, it’s worldwide. No, it’s worldwide. Oh yeah.

Speaker 0 (15m 12s): How is the church so organized? That’s my question.

Speaker 2 (15m 15s): It’s not just the church, unfortunately. It’s not just the church. Don’t we jump into that. Okay. As you said, not only is it adult than under attack, but comedy’s been attacked a lot, especially by like the woke police, whether it’s Christopher rock getting slapped for telling a joke or Dave Chappelle being attacked on stage, or even the president of the United States, such as he was calling bill Maher, calling them out, comics are being assaulted both physically and in the media.

How do you deal with this as a comic?

Speaker 0 (15m 50s): Well, where that’s not like, this is what, this, this is the best way to explain it. It’s not uncommon for us. Like the idea that like you might get hunched for a joke has always existed. Like, there’s all these great stories for comedians that are big. Now, Jim gaff, again, just like he was on stage. Somebody is doing a thing they’re heckling, he’s six, four. He’s always been 220 pounds. He walked off stage and he started punching a guy. Like, like, it’s not like, there’s never really been a good bouncer culture to our thing.

And, and at baseline comedy is eight people in a basement. Right. So like that, you got to understand. It’s like, you know, it’s just like, just like porn is like, it’s, it’s two people in a camera, which hilariously, like, that’s one of the main selling points now. But like, that’s the, that’s all you need. Right. And so for government, you need a mic and a couple of people and that’s dangerous. And so comedians we’ve always had to like, figure out how to like, and even as a child is one of the reasons I am a comedian. I had tumultuous relationships as a child. So like my whole, my whole like sense of being was how do I make somebody laugh before they punch me?

Who like, that’s it, how do I, how do I make this person laugh? So I don’t get hit. And that’s kind of like what it is. And that’s why I thought it was crazy actually about the Chris rock thing. And this is all I’ll say about this. Cause everybody has been exhausted. The,

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): Yeah, nobody wants to hear about it, but it exists.

Speaker 0 (17m 11s): How Chris rock, wow. Will Smith is walking up to stage while he’s not just peppering him with more and more insults. Like if you’re walking on stage and you’re coming from me and I know you’re coming from me, maybe I don’t think, cause it’s the Oscars I’m going to get hit. But that’s silly because a person’s a person and hitting can happen no matter what is going on. So I’m going to pepper him until there’s, he, there’s nothing left of that person. By the time they get to this stage, like, he

Speaker 2 (17m 36s): Didn’t have a chance. He didn’t have a chance. He didn’t say

Speaker 0 (17m 38s): Anything. He like, he just, he backed off and, and it’s like, the, the damage was done. So he got hit. So he should have just kept, he cut. She had kept going, kept going, pop, pop, pop, pop.

Speaker 2 (17m 48s): He’s certainly capable.

Speaker 0 (17m 51s): Yeah. And just assault his character, man. This is somebody who’s coming for you. He’s coming for your profession, coming for your, for your, for the microphone. More than anything else. This is what you value the most is being able to speak. And they’re coming for that. Maybe he just takes the mic. Right? My favorite thing to do, and this is, and this is a good way to bridge the conversation when I’m met with like aggression and male aggression, like as if a person in the audience is going to like run on stage and beat me up, I meet that aggression with their homophobia.

So like I had a guy once and he was like, he like got up and he was like, oh, you want to go outside and all this. Cause I’m like telling a joke about him. Maybe I’m doing a riff about what’s going on, whatever, whatever. Maybe it’s about him. And he said, want to go outside. And then, so I made it about, he wants to go outside so we can make out. I was like, sir, if you want to make out, we can do it right here. We don’t got to go outside and get all private. And that, that thing, dad, his cause he’s cause now he doesn’t know that it

Speaker 2 (18m 47s): Stopped him in his tracks

Speaker 0 (18m 49s): And he got the laugh and that’s what it is. I’m here to survive. And I built up a skill that has a, a real place in, in the world. And, and at baseline survival, how do I not get hit in the face? Make him make him think one of us is gay. And we don’t know which one it is. What do people that want to punch dudes in the face hate the most?

Speaker 2 (19m 15s): Oh yeah.

Speaker 0 (19m 15s): Two men kissing.

Speaker 2 (19m 18s): Absolutely. And by the way you mentioned Roe V. Wade and porn, LGBTQ plus rights are all tied in as well as gay marriage is now in danger.

Speaker 0 (19m 34s): I’m going to pull gay marriage. We’re going to pull all of this stuff,

Speaker 2 (19m 37s): Going to make porn illegal. I mean, it’s all, it’s all rolled together. So we’re worried when we hear about Roe V Wade, it definitely impacts this industry.

Speaker 0 (19m 48s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 49s): Yeah. And it, it impacts comedy because what’s next. What, right. What right. Is next? That’s the question. What’s the next thing they’re going to take away.

Speaker 0 (20m 1s): It’s about freedom of speech. So a thing that a lot of people don’t understand is that places without freedom of speech, standup comedy is illegal. So South Africa, for example, South Africa did not have freedom of speech until 1994. I believe that means that up comedy was literally illegal until 1994. That was so not that long ago, that was very close to now. Right. That was a period of time. Like we thought that it was okay. Well, I guess we didn’t think was okay. We, we, we did everything we could to try to make apartheid stop. One of the main things that held up apartheid was not being able to say how you feel and not being able to date who you want and not being able to marry or fuck who you want.

And that’s, it is it’s all rolled together and

Speaker 2 (20m 42s): It is, but America’s supposed to be different. We have a constitution, we have the first amendment. We

Speaker 0 (20m 50s): Believe that all forms of it,

Speaker 2 (20m 53s): But all forms of expression, whether it be art, film, news, media, comedy, or porn, they’re supposed to be protected. But slowly we see these protections eroding. And the sad part is it’s not just right or just left. It’s both sides of the political aisle on the left. You got the woke police on the right. You got people telling them what they can do or what they can do with their bodies. So what’s going on with the country. And how do you think we can turn this around?

Speaker 0 (21m 23s): I mean, I, I, you know, I’m trying to get dual citizenship in Italy. I don’t know that we’re turning this thing around, man. I don’t think that we, like, I didn’t think we could go backwards on the bus and start ripping off things that, that we already accomplished. But the fact that we didn’t even like, and again, if you, you know, you want to call it the PR the, the, the woke police, that side has not been looking at things that we’ve accomplished as up on the platter for things that could get decommissioned or whatever good words are.

And so we’re, we’re looking at the wrong stuff and, and the right is going no, everything, everything that we always believe we’re going to, we’re going to keep to it. The things that we believed in 1855 and 17, 76 and 1492, we’re just going to hold onto that stuff. And we live a lot. America lives, this lie that moved here for religious freedom, but it wasn’t about religious freedom. It was where can I start my mob of this other religion that we’re not really supporting where we live?

How do we do what another country is already doing, but with a different set of ideals, and that’s all we’ve done. It’s this thing about police brutality. We have a blind eye in the U S to gun violence and police brutality. And so what happens is we want to talk about those two things. And then we either pretend like we don’t know what the problem is, or we pretend like the salute that the solution is not obvious. And we love living that lie because we don’t really want,

Speaker 2 (22m 56s): And it’s so obvious. It’s so obvious. I hate to say it. And some of my gun loving friends will hate me for this. But what Australia did is, is the best solution

Speaker 0 (23m 7s): Done. Get ready to

Speaker 2 (23m 8s): End. There have to be laws, getting weapons of war off the streets.

Speaker 0 (23m 16s): And you know, the thing that tries to hold up, a lot of people, it’s this idea that like a, that like a well-equipped militia could, could like handle an army. And it’s like, you’re not doing it, man. No amount of guns are going to stop drones from ending your house. Like there’s no matter what thing you can buy the government’s got something bigger, no matter what, it’s that idea. It’s like, you know, no matter how big a guy is, there’s always a bigger guy. Like

Speaker 2 (23m 43s): Police departments have have more tools. Now that they’ve gotten from the defense department, then you could ever have,

Speaker 0 (23m 51s): Right. And don’t know me recently that police have never been here for the citizens. Police are, are the military of local government. And that’s it until we understand that. Luckily for most of my life, I haven’t had to be in many situations where I had to call the cops. But when I was 20, I had to be in a situation, right. To call the cops thinking that, oh, the police are here to protect me. And what I found immediately was they’re here to intensify the situation that exists and, or put me in a situation as a citizen where I no longer have rights to protect myself.

That’s it? There’s no like call the cops cause they’re gonna help the citizen. It’s take a citizen off the streets or say that it isn’t their responsibility. Those are the only two options. And I find that horrible. I think there’s a joke here, but I can’t figure it out. The idea that like, if you watch, like, if you’re, if you, if you don’t believe that police brutality exists, just watch any episode of cops. Every episode of cops is like the cops, like to the last one I watched was a guy got caught in the fence, running from the cops.

And then they made fun of him for 20 minutes without helping them. I’m not unconfident that like his leg is like permanently injured because you guys like cotton offense. And they just, they told him he shouldn’t have ran rather than helped him.

Speaker 2 (25m 15s): And

Speaker 0 (25m 16s): That’s low key police brutality. And,

Speaker 2 (25m 18s): And they’re supposed to, they’re supposed to give medical aid if someone’s injured. And I I’ve seen tape of people dying while they were supposed to get medical aid,

Speaker 0 (25m 28s): Knock a guy down and then yell at him for making you push him down. It’s high, key bullying and low key police brutality or vice versa.

Speaker 2 (25m 36s): Yeah. I mean, I, I tend to think that not all police play that way. I’ve seen instances where police have assisted. And I also have friends who have been police, some of the most prejudice people that I know that’ll tell you, and they’re all far right wing. But at the same time, I do think there are some dedicated people in the police force.

Speaker 0 (26m 2s): And I appreciate the political thing. And I’ll remove that like that. Like, and I’m not saying I’m against cops. I’m saying, if you watch the show cops, I didn’t name it. If you watch the show, cops, every episode is some form of bullying.

Speaker 2 (26m 15s): I’m sure being on the road, you’ve seen your share of episodes

Speaker 0 (26m 19s): And this is no political. I’m not putting any political, anything on it. I’m just telling you if you watch the show, it is very clearly. If you had to, like, if you had to like explain to a child, what bullying is, you would just throw on an episode of cops and maybe, and I’m sure I’m sure cops are doing great things, but I don’t know what they filmed, but the show is a pretty, pretty clear case of a bullying.

Speaker 2 (26m 39s): Yeah, indeed. It’s been a while, but the ones I’ve seen, I will agree with you. So let’s go back to comedy for a second. Who are some of your role models in comedy both past and present?

Speaker 0 (26m 52s): It’s really hard to say because it’s like, when you don’t know what something is, right. I don’t have a good example is I’ve never, I’ve never been, I’ve never been, I’ve never figured out how to, how to say what I want to say. But if you don’t have a good example of the thing, because you’re brand new, like I’m, I’m, I I’ve never done comedy when you’re a kid, you don’t think George Carlin is fantastic. You don’t understand comedy, right? Like just like people that are in a comedy, like they loved Dane cook because it wasn’t really proficient comedy. It was fun and entertaining.

And it’s like, you know, it’s like the, it’s like the pad Thai as a perfect example. It’s like the pad Thai of comedy, Dan cook, everybody loves it. Everybody loves it. And it’s not, it’s not difficult. It’s not culinarily challenging. Right. And so you start off loving pad Thai and you know, eventually you move on to red Curry and Patsy you, and it’s just the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (27m 49s): You do need to come to Thailand if, for no other reason to eat the real stuff.

Speaker 0 (27m 54s): Yes. And that’s my point. It’s, that’s why it’s a good example. It’s like, it’s like brisket to brisket for people

Speaker 2 (28m 0s): To, by the way.

Speaker 0 (28m 2s): Yes. Well, listen, I’m on my way. So make room on your couch. So

Speaker 2 (28m 7s): Absolutely. But

Speaker 0 (28m 8s): The

Speaker 2 (28m 9s): Thing is, would love to hang out

Speaker 0 (28m 11s): When you don’t have any information to inform you. You think that bad things are good. So I started liking bad comedy and I’m embarrassed by who I liked, but who I like now are good comedians

Speaker 2 (28m 25s): Who impresses you today?

Speaker 0 (28m 29s): Tim Dylan, bill Burr. Some of these are, you know, all this obvious choice, but drew Michael, these are all people that are, and that are challenging. The art form, Tim Delan has figured out how to have the right and the left like him for different reasons. And I think that’s brilliant, especially right now, because right now you have to pick a side and that’s what people are doing. You don’t already have an established fan base. Now that we’re so far apart on the left and right thing, you have to pick a side and then just try to like eat whatever’s left, you know? And Tim Dolan has figured out that like the right, does it understand what he’s doing?

So they take him literally and the left understands what he’s doing. And so they take him as, as satire. And maybe he’s neither, but both like him. And they both like them for different reasons. And that’s brilliant. So the lab thinks that he’s, that he’s like saying things that he means the opposite and the right things. He means it because he means it.

Speaker 2 (29m 23s): I’ve heard some really good political comedy over the years. And I watch bill Maher every week. And I think he’s still brilliant. Although he does rubbed me the wrong way about a lot of things, especially some of his views on COVID and down talking people who are overweight. Like

Speaker 0 (29m 43s): I also don’t think he’s pro sex work.

Speaker 2 (29m 45s): No, he isn’t. No, no. He is not.

Speaker 0 (29m 48s): He’s kind of a sledgehammer.

Speaker 2 (29m 50s): Yeah. He is John and John Oliver is a lot more open. In fact, he did an episode. I don’t know if you saw the episode that John Oliver did on, on sex work and it was wrong. Well, his show was brilliant though. I mean,

Speaker 0 (30m 5s): John Minaj before he got canceled, had a really good show that, that, that hit the, the other side of a lot of things that I never understood. He did such a good job. I don’t know if he touched it in there, but anybody who’s doing stuff about sex work I’m for that. And I just got a question. Who’s the most sex positive late night show host

Speaker 2 (30m 22s): Either Cole bear or Trevor Noah probably. But those are the two that I’ve probably watched the most. And I haven’t, I haven’t been watching late night comedy just like I haven’t been watching news because ever since January 6th I’ve really been avoiding us politics. I’m just so disgusted by everything. You know, I love Dan. I scanned the New York times. I watch Mar and I watch all of her and I get little bits and pieces there. But other than that, I’ve just kind of put my head in the sand because it’s so disgusting.

It’s fair.

Speaker 0 (30m 54s): Who, you know, who I think you’ll love. Hmm. Cause they cause they, they, they add a little lightness to the, to the problem is the good liars is a guy I went to college with and he got a partner and they they’re, they’re three movies deep. And they’re, you know, they’re, they’re on various platforms and various levels of actually being invested in. But so they’re under the radar a little bit, but they, they basically go to these rallies and they troll the people. And so they’ll go to the, they’ll go to the January

Speaker 2 (31m 21s): Reunion

Speaker 0 (31m 22s): And there’ll be like, what are, what are you guys talking about? And they’ll, and th these, these people will be like, oh, we’re celebrating January six. And they go, oh, were you there? And then they go, no, that was Antifa dressed as us. And we’re like, well, and so, and they do such a good job of walking the line of being like, I’m interviewing you, but also exposing that you’re absurd.

Speaker 2 (31m 44s): Think of the guy who used to be on the daily show, but he’s got his own show on comedy central now. And he does that stuff all the time. That’s pretty much his stick is to like Trump, Trump rallies.

Speaker 0 (31m 58s): Is he, does he have his own show?

Speaker 2 (31m 60s): Yeah. He, well, he did

Speaker 0 (32m 1s): Really good at that white guy. Weird hair.

Speaker 2 (32m 3s): Yeah.

Speaker 0 (32m 4s): I didn’t know, you know, honcho,

Speaker 2 (32m 6s): I don’t know if he has weird hair. He’s pretty normal hair. But anyway, this guy used to be on the daily. He used to be, he used to be on the daily show and, and he’s got his own bit and that’s pretty much his shtick is going to go to Trump rallies and asking questions and going, oh yeah, I agree. Oh definitely. And then he’ll say something and the person who’s obviously a complete Nutter. Moron will look at him.

Speaker 0 (32m 31s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32m 32s): And he doesn’t know if he’s being insulted or what, and he’s definitely being insulted.

Speaker 0 (32m 37s): So

Speaker 2 (32m 38s): I wish I could think of his name, but I can’t think of it right now. And he’s,

Speaker 0 (32m 43s): I’m trying to figure, I’m trying to I’m on the website. He was,

Speaker 2 (32m 45s): He was wanting to Trevor Noah’s lieutenants who, who did a lot of that stuff. And then they, they, he had his own, his own gig. So

Speaker 0 (32m 54s): He has his own show.

Speaker 2 (32m 56s): So you went from comedy to acting or acting to comedy.

Speaker 0 (33m 0s): Really? What happened was not a lot of money in comedy. So you go, what else can I do? And you know, to be a good comedian, you gotta be able to do a myriad of things. And one of those things obviously is that you gotta be able to sell what your jokes are. So I had an opportunity to do, honestly, most of the stuff you read off is like stuff that I did as a comedian or some level of like, yeah, Klepper, that’s his name? Jordan, Jordan

Speaker 2 (33m 30s): Klepper, Jordan Klepper

Speaker 0 (33m 32s): Show. That’s fantastic.

Speaker 2 (33m 33s): He is good.

Speaker 0 (33m 34s): Same vibe, except he comes at it like he’s. So that’s a perfect example we talked about before. It’s like, he’s not afraid of violence. He’s going to say what he means. And it’s funny. And it seems like he should be getting punched in the face more. And I do think he has weird

Speaker 2 (33m 48s): Hair. Absolutely.

Speaker 0 (33m 51s): I realizing that. I mean, it’s not, it’s not it’s it’s and it’s, and I wish it came in this business with a better business sense, but it’s like, you might have people who want to go to comedy clubs and the men here that want to see comedy is very limited. Whereas I think it’s a little, like the numbers thing. It’s like, it’s like 6.4 million or something, something I just put in a business plan. And the people that want to like watch movies is way more. So you’re like, okay, I guess I should do that. That seems, that seems more important. But most of the shows I was on, I was trying to either be a community and be funny, or get no notice for being a comedian so that the fame that I would get elsewhere would then put me in a position to do more comedy.

That’s really what it is. Sure. So that’s really what it comes down to

Speaker 2 (34m 38s): What attributes that you comic, sorry,

Speaker 0 (34m 42s): 17 million. I just looked it up and move on my business. 17 million people visit comedy clubs a year out of what do we have? 380 million in the U S 17 million.

Speaker 2 (34m 54s): I used to go all the time when I lived there.

Speaker 0 (34m 56s): And so it’s a small, really is a small sector of people. And it’s like,

Speaker 2 (35m 1s): Yeah, I got a lot of free tickets. Cause I worked for the radio

Speaker 0 (35m 4s): And they’re trying to keep here. Yeah. The gen bring you there. But

Speaker 2 (35m 7s): Well also because I worked in radio, so even the ones that wouldn’t normally be free, I always got free tickets. I CA I don’t think I’ve ever paid to go to a comedy club. Yeah, no, I don’t think I ever have,

Speaker 0 (35m 21s): And I’ve never paid for my porn. Okay. I’m just kidding.

Speaker 2 (35m 25s): I, I, I was in radio 21 years, so

Speaker 0 (35m 28s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 30s): So what attributes that you have as a comic help you as an actor, we

Speaker 0 (35m 35s): Love to hang on to this thing. We go, we go, bill Burr says it on, on, on interviews. We’ve said it about Robin Williams. We love this idea as comedians that like teach comedy. And so being funny is like more important. So it’s like, but at the same time, like you can obviously write something funny and the actor can deliver it because they’re an empty vessel. Right. So they can just be funny for that moment, but you can’t use comedy, but you can teach somebody how to act or be like dramatic. So we hang onto this idea whether it’s true or not. And so the idea that like a comedian makes a better dramatic actor, longterm might be true, you know, and as a comedian, what you do need to do is you need to have empathy.

You need to understand how to dive into like a character, maybe in your story. And you have to figure out point of view and you have to figure out how, you know, a myriad of people feel right. In a particular situation. So we’re more in touch with your feelings. We’re more in touch with like, we’re like where people Watchers, right. We comedians a lot of times are good impersonators. So there is an element of like, how do I understand humans more? Which is a good thing. I think good actors can do that too.

Right? You have to understand how somebody would, would react or be in a situation. And for communities, it’s kind of like, it’s like our obsession. It’s our unconscious obsession

Speaker 2 (36m 54s): Makes sense. You know, you’ve mentioned Robin Williams, Robin, Billy, crystal, some, some of the other great. Do any of those have an impact on, on your style?

Speaker 0 (37m 6s): Sure. So my style honestly was like a combination of like Wendy Liebman and then probably bill Cosby and bill Cosby is a great, but it’s hard because now you’re like, all my idols from the eighties have a, have a court case now, you know? And so you’re in this, you’re in this spot where you’re like, cool. Do I say,

Speaker 2 (37m 24s): Yeah, when you say bill cost me now, it’s not like, when you said bill Cosby 15 years ago.

Speaker 0 (37m 29s): Right. Right. And, and yeah. And it’s a, it’s a really bad word and it’s tough. And then it also, it’s a question you have inside yourself. You’re like, how come everybody, I liked as a child was a pervert. What does that say about me? And for me, maybe that maybe that informs why I have the podcast. Right. Myles literally Pee-wee Herman Michael Jackson, bill Cosby. So it’s like, what’s going on with me. So I always liked that bill Cosby didn’t laugh at his own jokes. So when I started doing comedy, I was doing that. And then the more I do comedy, like I said, like, I’m not eating pad Thai anymore.

I watch a comedian laugh at his own jokes and find it that as a useful mechanism for comedy. And you know, and then, and then when you leave, men was big with like wordplay and, and, and all of the female comedians that came after honestly were, she was one of the best who never kind of made it. And everybody kind of ripped off her.

Speaker 2 (38m 21s): I only know, I know her name. I can’t say I’ve seen her act.

Speaker 0 (38m 25s): Right. Because, and then somewhere in the middle of when she was about, when she was getting big, she stopped and had a family and that’s admirable and that’s great. And that’s all the things, but for whatever judgment you want to say, it hurt her career. By taking a break, you can’t take a break from the thing you’re great at. You can go play baseball when you’re the greatest basketball player of all time, you can’t do it. You have to stay in your lane and win championships. And so, yeah, my favorite,

Speaker 2 (38m 50s): Michael Michael, one another title though.

Speaker 0 (38m 53s): My favorite comedian quit comedy for a little while. And she did it for way. Well, he only, he was only gone for like 18 months. She was gone for like 10 years. Maybe, maybe 18 years. I don’t know.

Speaker 2 (39m 1s): That’s a long time. Yeah. That’s, that’s a, that’s a really, really long time. One of my favorite comics was Sam Kennison.

Speaker 0 (39m 10s): Well, and that’s a good example. I don’t know. W w I know I got cut off here. I don’t know if I got cut off, I’m going to reiterate my point, same candidates in Belushi Hartman. What does it say about my industry that, that so many of our greats like died in tragic, horrible ways when you’re talking to murder, suicide, drug overdoses, crazy, awful things. What does it say about my industry? Like people are like, play baseball are not dying of murder, suicide, and like fentanyl overdoses. You know what I mean? And, or just regular old school, heroin overdoses.

I am working in an industry that is driving people to do extra ordinary things. And that’s what we live amongst is, is those types of people in those types of environments. So that’s the, you know, that’s the industry. So Sam Kinison is icon, not necessarily before my time, but more like he was before everyone’s time. Cause he was five minutes. He was five minutes. Mitch Hedberg was five minutes. Right? That’s all they had. They were on, they were, they were misunderstood. Geniuses and Lenny Bruce and well, Lenny Bruce is I put Lenny Bruce at the, at the threshold of like Playboy hustler, all those things.

He was the first person challenging our way of understanding and obscenity. We took it to the Supreme court. We know those things, honestly. And I hate to say this, but like a good portion of Lenny boomers, his career, he wasn’t funny. He was just reading police reports because he was pissed off, you know, and even Carlin, you know, understood as one of the geniuses. If you look at his stats, like, like, like beat for beat, laugh for laugh, he’s not getting laughs. He’s more doing lists and saying rhyming couplets and all these things. So we can chunk through heavy material to get to his point.

And it’s like, we’ve got to have these bigger discussions. What’s more important is like changing the game or just getting a lot of laughs you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40m 57s): Yeah. I agree.

Speaker 0 (40m 58s): And it’s like, Jeff Dunham gets cheap. Laughs. And he goes in any Cassius of the checks, Larry, the cable guy, Cassius checks, man. He’s he makes the most money. And it’s like, should we be mad at that? I don’t know.

Speaker 2 (41m 11s): You know, it’s kinda like he’s, he’s kinda like the Kenny G of comedy. I really liked jazz, but Kenny G holds notes and I have, I have a lot of friends in the jazz business and I think a lot of them are really resentful of Kenny G because he makes so much money and he’s not as talented as they are.

Speaker 0 (41m 36s): That’s the artist’s struggle, man. Do you want to be, do you get categorized and just be the thing and then you just collect checks or do you change the game and you do evolve. So it’s that and that’s the artist struggle. Do you want to make money or do you want to have integrity? And that’s it, you don’t this the crossroads, you know, can’t do anything else. And it’s like brisket. It’s just like brisket. And I like using this a lot because I love barbecue and good brisk. It has a lot of fat on it, but most people don’t want to eat the fat because they don’t understand what fat is or how it works metabolically. And there’s a bad word around fat. So you have to make your brisket be shitty if you want to sell a lot of it.

So do you want to make a brisket for 13 hours and sell it to two people? Or do you want to sell the fuck out of brisket and the interests you want to sell the fuck out of brisket? So you hold notes or whatever the Kenny G jazz thing is that he’s doing

Speaker 2 (42m 22s): Well. That makes total sense. So finally I noticed in your bio that you’re a dog lover like myself. We have six, by the way,

Speaker 0 (42m 33s): How does that work?

Speaker 2 (42m 35s): It doesn’t, it’s amazing. We’ve kept them quiet for this long muzzles. Come in handy. There’s so many homeless dogs here and we’ve, we’ve adopted so many from

Speaker 0 (42m 46s): You have enough places to put them

Speaker 2 (42m 49s): Kinda.

Speaker 0 (42m 52s): You’re like, yeah, I got a California king so I can sleep with my new,

Speaker 2 (42m 59s): I leave that to the wife anyway. So you’re quite involved in animal charities. Talk a little bit about animal rights and the plight of animals in the world.

Speaker 0 (43m 7s): Oh man. It’s like, it’s taken a hit because in-person stuff took a hit. And then after that, it’s like, I don’t like the, the, the big place that I was involved in, they were, you know, they were like, they became the, one of the big things where they were doing a vet clinic. In-person you show up and you get low price shots. You can get bay neutering for cheap to no money. And also a lot of those things got kind of pulled away because it’s like, we barely care about people right now. So the last, so then like governmentally, we don’t care about animals.

So that’s where we’re at. It’s like animals are the first thing to kind of get pulled away from. And that’s really frustrating. And I’m a single dog that I have. And by that, I mean, I’m, I’m single and I have a dog, but also I only have one dog, which it’s kind of like Cosby used to say to my parents is like, if you only have one, if you only have one kid, you’re not really a parent. If you have one kid in the house and somebody, and something’s broken, you know, who broke it? And that like takes like the, all of the struggle out of parenting. And so I’ve only ever had one dog and she’s obsessed with me and I’m obsessed with her.

So I don’t really know what it would be like to have six dogs. I don’t know if I would be a good,

Speaker 2 (44m 18s): I don’t know.

Speaker 0 (44m 19s): I don’t. And I don’t know if I’d be a good animal. Parents is extinct. I don’t know if I have the bandwidth. You know,

Speaker 2 (44m 25s): It’s a lot of, like I said, the wife helps a lot.

Speaker 0 (44m 28s): Yeah. But I do want a farm. I want all the things I want all the animals. So I think there’s part of me that can do it. I actually do think other than the things I’ve said, I think we’re at a good place in animal welfare because we don’t live in a society anymore over here in the U S that puts dogs outside and just expects them to like fend for themselves. And that’s a small win or a big one, but it’s a win. There used to be this idea. You just put your dog outside and if they freeze to death, he got a skirt. It’s a dog. What are you going to do

Speaker 2 (44m 55s): Here? It’s a little bit, it’s a little bit different. Sadly. We do have to have two, our two puppies outside because otherwise one of our dogs will kill them. But the weather’s what the weather’s really pretty good out here. And they, they have ways of staying cool. So

Speaker 0 (45m 13s): Good. Let me tell you what’s happened here as a, as a by-product of this thing is that dogs because they have no tasks anymore. Dogs used to be things like we created dogs to be obedient creatures. You know, whether you want like, like people will get offended by this, but like, that’s what they are is not my words. It’s like, it’s like, I should have duck. You go get the duck, you bring it back to me. That’s what we made them for. That’s what we brought them to do. Right. And so we don’t have that anymore over here. So what we have is you, you let you, you go in my purse and you watch me. Fuck. And you hope that your next that’s what we have.

We’ve created that that’s the byproduct of what we’ve done. My dog thinks she’s my wife, or she’s going to, or she’s next. She thinks she’s going to marry me. That’s what she feels because we did, we’re doing something wrong. I don’t make her go get stuff out of, you know, it’s like, I could teach her to like open the fridge and get me a beer. Right. But I don’t, we just hang out together and watch Netflix.

Speaker 2 (46m 4s): Yup. Now we love our dogs. We love our dogs and we, yeah. We treat them. We treat them like our babies too. So I get it.

Speaker 0 (46m 11s): The dogs are confused. They don’t know. They don’t understand what they’re supposed to do now. They’re like, I, my entire Jeanette, yeah. My entire genetic vibe is to, is to be your obedient creature. And you’re not asking me to do shit.

Speaker 2 (46m 23s): They’re here to sleep and they do it and they do it extremely well.

Speaker 0 (46m 28s): Good.

Speaker 2 (46m 29s): Well, Dan, this has been a pleasure. I really want to thank you for being our guests today on adults. I broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 0 (46m 38s): And I hope we got this one too.

Speaker 2 (46m 40s): I hope so. My broker tip today is part four of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your site, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it trademarking, your site will cost Navage of about $1,500, but should be worth more than the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends.

If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they’re likely to be willing to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or view porn, be creative, not just one of many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes to your site.

Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with performer, Coralyn Jewel. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Dan Frigolette. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Carly David of PS Group.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, Adult Site Broker 3.0 at adult-site-broker-dot-com. The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate.
The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash and our new blog.

Speaking of ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker, we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts!
That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. A growing sex doll site started in 2016. It’s grown to over 2 million in annual revenue. The owner is focused and invested heavily into SEO for the site, making sure it consistently ranks at the top in the search engines for the main industry keywords as a result, most of the traffic and sales are organic coming from people who have searched for sex dolls on Google.

Other strong sales channels are the 25,000 plus person email list and an affiliate program. The owner has developed relationships with the best manufacturers. The products are drop shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. The store has hundreds of five star reviews on the website and on third-party sites. The store currently has no employees aside from the owner who works only 10 to 15 hours a week on the business. SEO is handled by an agency. This is a business that can be grown by a company with experience in the novelties field.

Only 2.7, $2 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Carly David of PS group currently. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk

Speaker 2 (2m 45s): Pleasure is mine.

Speaker 1 (2m 47s): Oh no, it’s mine. We can go back and forth on that one. So Thank you. So with over 15 years experience in mainstream marketing, former worker, Carly David originally began her career in film and TV before transitioning to ad agencies. Over the years, she’s collaborated with one of Adweek’s top advertising execs of the decade Australia’s marketer of the year BAFTA and Sundance film festival nominees, fortune 100 companies cause marketers and Hollywood directors.

Her areas of expertise include campaign strategy, branding, website, design, and SEO. Carly currently resides in Mexico with her dog Bodie P S groups mascot, by the way, at any given moment, she can be found not working on her memoir, which I want to read. That sounds exciting. She was educated at Columbia university. PS group is a creative agency for the adult industry and is comprised primarily of current or retired sex workers.

Yay for you. Their team comes from all over north America, or as well as the UK, their services include website, design, branding, and graphic design strategy, copywriting, SEO, and social media marketing. They take a very holistic approach to their work and encourage their clients to learn not just the what but the why, which I totally agree with their clients have gone on to win awards, create successful podcasts, develop a support collective for sex worker rights again, and become educators themselves.

Well, Carly had just talked a bit about your background and by the way, did you, did you like your commercial there?

Speaker 2 (4m 35s): I’m exhausted just hearing it.

Speaker 1 (4m 38s): Yeah. Usually after a long bio like that, I’ll say, and thank you for being with us today. That’s all the time we have. So

Speaker 2 (4m 44s): Exactly.

Speaker 1 (4m 46s): I talked a bit about your background. It sounds like quite a journey. Tell us about the jury

Speaker 2 (4m 52s): Journey is, is definitely one way to put it it’s been a bizarre trajectory, but for some reason it has actually come completely full circle for me at school in college, I majored in English and human rights and went into entertainment and then advertising and marketing. And now I swore to combine all three and it’s just, you know, w I was reviewing the questions that we had discussed earlier.

And I was like, wow, I have the most amazing job ever, but let me tell you, I’ve gone through quite a few jobs that were not amazing. So it’s, it’s definitely been a journey for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (5m 39s): Yeah. Now, now you mentioned to me, and I mentioned in the bio, you’re a former sex worker at what point in your life was that

Speaker 2 (5m 49s): That was actually, while I was working in advertising agencies, I sort of had this very bizarre film noir, double life going. I just, I’ve learned so much about psychology and people. And I mean, it was a very different time. It was probably about 10 years ago and the industry has changed drastically. I mean, the world has changed drastically, so I’m just really happy to have found this industry.

And, you know, mainstream never really felt right. It never really fit for me. So once I found this industry, I was like, I’m home.

Speaker 1 (6m 33s): Yeah, yeah. I get ya. Now, you, you alluded to it, but tell me the story of how you got into the adult industry.

Speaker 2 (6m 42s): Oh, wow. That was very interesting. Well, I had actually known sex workers pretty much since I was an adult, like in college, which again, very different time. And it just kept people just entered my life at different points who were a part of this industry. And eventually I decided, you know what, this is something I want to explore. And I was very fortunate that it was not because I needed something to survive.

I didn’t necessarily depend on it for my livelihood. It was something that I was doing for very personal growth reasons. And that, that again is a very privileged place to be. But I’ve found that it was more fulfilling and gratifying than being in a mainstream corporate environment.

Speaker 1 (7m 47s): Okay. So, I mean, were you a performer or were you working as an escort or do you want to talk about it?

Speaker 2 (7m 53s): I was full service. I was supposed to service in New York city. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 57s): Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (7m 58s): Wow. So it was definitely a, it was definitely a double life, you know, VP by day lady of the night. And it was, it was a time where the online and digital sex work wasn’t as prominent. I would say it wasn’t as accessible and it wasn’t as sophisticated as it is now. So that was the niche that I was exposed to first. So that’s sort of where I made my entry and then it, it no longer was something that was, I feel like as you grow and evolve in your life as a person, as a professional, you know, as a sex worker, that there are chapters as with any career.

And it just got to a point where I was like, you know what? I feel that the next challenge for me is helping other sex workers.

Speaker 1 (8m 56s): Sure, sure. Now, now you said you had personal reasons that that helped, I think believed the words you said were, were fulfilling. Anything you wanna share about that?

Speaker 2 (9m 10s): I got to say it was a way to connect with individuals in a very unusually intimate way. And when, I mean intimate, I mean, people bearing their souls. People can fighting you and trusting you. And that’s a huge responsibility. And being able to have a positive impact on someone’s life after they have taken that leap of faith in trusting you that way, it’s, it, it meant more to me than any old envelope for real.

It really did. And it continues to. So that’s really, that’s part of why I do what I do is that, you know, it’s amazing to see your work recognized. It’s so much more amazing indescribable feeling to see the people we work with getting their work recognized.

Speaker 1 (10m 9s): That’s what it’s all about. That is what it’s all about. So I, I mentioned before, we may have a little barking in the background, only six dogs. What can I say? We talked about that before we went on, what is P S group?

Speaker 2 (10m 26s): So Pittsburgh has gone through a variety of incarnations and I could not be happier with where we are today. We are basically a traditional creative ad agency. We just work exclusively with sex workers. And for the vast majority, we are sex workers or we’re either current or retire and where people who genuinely care about the community and really want to, I mean, I know it’s a cliche term, but you know, to really empower our peers and to really make a dent in our future, as an industry, shift the needle and just keep changing the game and making everything that we do in terms of marketing, just one notch, better, one notch, more informed, one notch, more creative, one notch, pushing the envelope and just making sure that we don’t just say sex workers work.

We live that we walk that

Speaker 1 (11m 36s): If I’m a potential client and I’m looking at you and I’m looking at a firm that isn’t run by sex workers,

Speaker 2 (11m 45s): Why

Speaker 1 (11m 46s): Should they go with PS group?

Speaker 2 (11m 48s): That’s always a good question. And it’s something I should

Speaker 1 (11m 50s): Probably, that’s why I asked it.

Speaker 2 (11m 53s): Yeah. And it’s, I should have my elevator pitch ready, you know, but I mean, beyond our differentiator that this was our world, like, this is what we do. I would also say the quality of our work speaks for itself. And we’re always just trying to produce better and better and better and more creative and more thought provoking and more really effective.

I mean, it’s great to have really pretty work, but if it’s not going to convert, if it’s not going to propel you towards your end goal and objectives, then it’s just pretty work.

Speaker 1 (12m 36s): Right. Right. Yeah. And you know, what’s interesting. And you, you know, we, we’ve been communicating a lot by email and you were talking about, you said, well, we haven’t won awards, but our clients have won lots of awards. And my reply was, well, that’s what it’s all about. And you know, what’s interesting. And I, I come from the radio world. I was in radio for 21 years and I’ll never forget all these ad agencies that were totally ineffective, but they won all these awards.

And the whole thing was all about who could be the cutest, who could be the one that, that puts out the ad that, you know, the client spent the most money on and won an award. But when it comes right down to it, the important thing is results.

Speaker 2 (13m 27s): Exactly, exactly. I mean, the ideal piece of work is going to transcend just creative. It is not only going to convert and be effective, but it also becomes something that’s larger than just an ad or a website. It becomes about something that is relevant to all of us and something that makes us think.

And hopefully one day something that changes things, you know, I mean, I would say that Nike does this really well, is that, and frankly, the ad agency who does most of Nike’s work is an inspiration for PS group. And I think the fact that they’re able to tackle, not just a sales pitch within the quality of creative, but also really be a vehicle for social change.

And I think they, they’ve had a very good track record of, of work that rallies people in a way that inspires you. And I, that’s what we, we really strive to produce here.

Speaker 1 (14m 54s): Yeah. Now, besides what I just shared, what other services does PS group offer?

Speaker 2 (15m 0s): Well, we actually are adding more social media platforms. So as of may, we are, we’re currently offering Reddit soon. We’ll be offering discord marketing, and we do sometimes offer bespoke packages for other platforms. But for the most part, we focus on those platforms that in our opinion has the most potential for longevity. Sure. So, and I’m sure we’re going to touch on this a little bit.

When we dive deeper, I really want to aim for, you know, editorial and creative and, and everything that we’ve really already touched on, but so we will have photography and we have played with the idea of, we do have a music producer. Sometimes we’ll do custom music tracks that you own in entirety.

Speaker 1 (15m 55s): Wow. That’s nice. Now I shouldn’t give the standard disclaimer, we’re taught, we’re doing this April 29th and this whole run in August. So yeah. A lot of this will be happening. Then tell me what a typical day looks like when w when, when a, Podcaster’s not keeping you up late to do an interview. That is,

Speaker 2 (16m 16s): I would say, I mean, every day is different yet. Exactly the same. There’s always the firefighting projects you have to attend to immediately. And I typically have about four to five zooms a day with clients and with team members and, you know, vendors and things of that nature. So I’m, I’m on zoom a lot.

The pandemic was actually sort of business as usual for me, because I work from home. Our entire team is remote. So the only tricky thing is the, the time differences because we have

Speaker 1 (17m 4s): Just,

Speaker 2 (17m 6s): Yeah. You know, more. Yeah, absolutely. So, so it’s a lot of zooms and then it will be, I am by August, I will be working less and less on active projects and more focusing on the trajectory of PS group and operations and business development. But as of right now, I’m finishing up a bunch of sites because I have been our lead website designer until, until recently.

And what else I do a lot of SEO work. So there’s a lot of keyword researching. There’s a lot of data analysis and a lot of motivational pep talks to clients for summaries. For some reason, we have a lot of pep talks here. And I don’t know, I tend to speak in memes, which is very odd, but you know, Bruce, if you ever need the leg down at halftime, we’re in the locker room with Denzel Washington telling you to go kill those, you know, the football team out there.

We’re gonna, we’ll take care of you. We’ll take you for, we got you.

Speaker 1 (18m 23s): You don’t know how much I appreciate that

Speaker 2 (18m 25s): For sure. Just don’t do it in the middle of my night, please.

Speaker 1 (18m 29s): Well, you won’t get it properly. So why is marketing strategy or plan so important for adult performers?

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): I feel, I mean, first of all, I think I have trouble, perhaps just because of my background coming from more traditional corporate environments, that I’m not quite sure how to approach running a business without a marketing plan. I mean, if I don’t know where I’m going, then I don’t know what the next step is to get there. If I don’t have an end goal in mind, if I don’t have objectives for, we always ask our clients, when they’re coming on board, what are your short-term goals?

Where do you want to be in six months? What are your, what’s your five-year plan? You know, what are these, why did you get into this industry to begin with and what is going to make it a success for you? So I would say the biggest thing is that if you don’t start with a foundation, you’re not going to be able to execute in a way that will be, that will really have an ROI on everything you’re doing.

It’s not gonna be able to help you to grow. You’re not gonna, you’re not going to grow as a person. You’re not gonna grow as a business, and you’re not going to be able to achieve those goals regardless of whether you’ve identified them or not. So we definitely are proponents for everything starts with strategy. And then it turns into a, how do I execute this?

Speaker 1 (20m 16s): Hmm. So what are your feelings about social media as a marketing tool?

Speaker 2 (20m 22s): I’m actually very, I’m very torn on using social media for marketing personally. I am not a social media person. I get extraordinarily social media awkward and, and I just, I don’t use it in my personal life. And, you know, I do a bit grudgingly for work, but I feel like I, I did not grow up with Instagram, so I don’t really get it.

And that is why we have a social media manager on our team because she’s fabulous and she knows. And so I just let her go and let her stay out of her way because she knows. And you know, that’s also part of a team is that you all have your specialties, but to return to the initial question, I think it’s a very volatile time for that because, because obviously the, just the current landscape in the tech world, I mean, as we’re recording this, you know, Musk literally just bought Twitter.

So we have no idea what the future is going to be. We don’t know what the future is going to be for Twitter. We don’t know what the future is going to be for the industry. We don’t know what the future is going to be for the world at large.

Speaker 1 (21m 49s): So,

Speaker 2 (21m 51s): Yeah. I mean, if you had said three,

Speaker 1 (21m 53s): Well, we’re kind of in good, we’re kind of in a good shape though, because I, data for Russia is going to bomb Thailand or Mexico. So

Speaker 2 (22m 1s): Yeah. But I mean, butterfly effect, you know, slapping wings.

Speaker 1 (22m 6s): That was a, that was a little bit of a, that was a little bit of a joke, but yeah, indeed.

Speaker 2 (22m 12s): I know. I mean, I think also there’s the concept that just because you can say something on social media, you know, is it really right to say it like, should you say it? And I think because of the nature of social media and also the nature of the world right now that we’re all, you know, hooked into a virtual sense of living and surviving that, you know, it’s very tempting to overshare and forget that it is a marketing tool.

And so it has to be approached with strategy the same way that you would developing a search engine optimization plan. It has to be addressed in plans the same way that you would build a website. You can’t just throw something up there and see if it sticks because I mean, social media more than anything is just it’s forever. So yes. So I encourage people and, you know, performers in this industry and everyone really to just put the pause button on before, before something is posted, make sure,

Speaker 1 (23m 32s): I think before think beef think before you post yeah,

Speaker 2 (23m 36s): Absolutely. Is this furthering my goals or is this mean venting? If your brand is venting and it works for you then, you know, by all means that’s a business decision and that’s furthering your marketing, you know, but I would say very few people are consciously deciding on that style of brand.

Speaker 1 (24m 1s): Well, yeah. I mean, how, how often does somebody pay someone to do their social media and then screw it up with one of their posts?

Speaker 2 (24m 11s): Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I trust my social media manager because she collaborated,

Speaker 1 (24m 18s): I’m talking about, I’m talking about the person who owns the account.

Speaker 2 (24m 22s): Oh yes, yes, absolutely. Yes. I get that. You’d be surprised. You’d be surprised, but I mean, it’s all, it’s all a learning lesson, isn’t it?

Speaker 1 (24m 36s): Oh, it is. It is. And I’ve ever since January 6th, 20, 21, I’ve backed away considerably from social media, but that’s a whole other story.

Speaker 2 (24m 51s): Our thing is that like our clients don’t pay us to sit on social media for us. They pay us to do their work. So I am, I’ll keep an eye on Twitter, but I don’t post nearly as much as I should for promotional reasons. But to be fair, I’m a little busy and that’s what we should be. We should be doing the jobs that we, that we want and have, and that we’re working so hard on.

So yeah,

Speaker 1 (25m 26s): That’s the whole idea. So what do you think the future is of adult marketing?

Speaker 2 (25m 33s): I think it would be arrogant to presume. I know because I don’t and no one does really. I can say what I hope it is and where I think it’s going. I have been advising our clients for years now, get your email marketing in place. Now work on your SEO now because both of those are very long gestation periods.

You’ll have to really work on them for quite a while, for them to be as effective and beneficial as they can really be. We’ve been really fortunate with our clients that they’ve really taken that to heart. And I get so excited every time I get a newsletter from one of them, I would say that we’re just going to keep as an industry, like going up a notch and going up a notch and going up and really just getting more and more creative, more and more sophisticated with our efforts.

I think we’re going to use data a lot more. The people that you hear talking about their analytics. Now, ironically, I’m seeing this on Twitter, but I think the people who are really we’re really embracing that because to be fair, the adult industry is we’re slightly antiquated with our tools because of how we’re limited by the outside world.

You know, the facts that we’re not eligible for a lot of things that mainstream marketers can do, but also because we’re sort of, you know, for better, for worse, we’re a little underground. So we, the communication opportunities to share are, are less than they are in a mainstream world. So I think the information is just not as accessible and that’s something that like me and my team are really are really trying to work on is to provide resources and to disseminate information and try to provide as much free education as we can.

So I think the future of adult marketing is, is going to be, it’s going to be bigger. It is going to be more thought-provoking I think. And I think it’s probably going to look a lot like mainstream marketing is just happens to be for the adult industry.

Speaker 1 (28m 18s): Yeah. Yeah. And I think, and I think as time goes on, despite all the negative noise from outside, what governments are trying to do the grand standing of certain politicians, which there seem to be more every day mainstream and adult as time goes on, seems to be coming closer together when she say,

Speaker 2 (28m 41s): I do think so. I do. And I think, I think my personal belief is that the sooner we’re able to de-stigmatize by humanizing the industry and making it a little bit more, perhaps accessible and relatable to those who are not as involved in it. I think the sooner we can do that, the sooner we’ll actually be able to instigate change on a legislative, you know, societal level.

And so my goal is to really reach back out to the industries that I grew up in and get them on board and try to integrate adult and mainstream in a much more holistic interdependent way, I think so that we can coexist and it’s less us and them

Speaker 1 (29m 51s): Indeed. So what advice do you have for new models and what do you think the keys are for success?

Speaker 2 (29m 59s): I personally believe that success is really due to three things. The first is a work ethic. If you have a really solid work ethic and you apply yourself and you discipline yourself and you keep challenging yourself, despite, you know, outside factors or whatever else is going on, if you’re willing to put in that work, I think the chances for your success is a lot more

Speaker 1 (30m 30s): Then.

Speaker 2 (30m 32s): Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then also a good attitude, a positive attitude, humility that goes a long way. And so I think between the work ethic and a positive, good attitude, everything else can be learned, really everything else can be learned if you’ve got that work ethic and you’ve got that positive attitude. And then it comes, you know, frankly, it comes down to fair amount of luck. It really does.

And that unfortunately is for the most part out of our control, but we can definitely take the steps towards recognizing those opportunities when they arrive. And when they present themselves and with the work ethic and attitude, you’re able to act on those opportunities and really leverage them and make them the most. They can be

Speaker 1 (31m 26s): Sure. Now, what do you think PS group will look like in five years?

Speaker 2 (31m 31s): I would, well, we’re definitely going to be bigger because we’re growing at an exponential rate right now and I could not be more thrilled with my team. I got to tell you, I am everyone’s biggest fan. Like everyone is amazing at what they do. And they’re just all lovely individuals. We’ll have team meetings and like half of people are smoking a joint, but we’re talking about SEO and we’re having fun because the point is, is that we either, the entire team is comprised of people who either were in traditional and it didn’t work for them, or they never even entered it because they knew it wouldn’t work for them.

So we are sort of a team of outliers where a team of random people who are, you know, where are the, where are the counterculture people. But for the most part, we try to function like a mainstream ad agency. So I think in five years it’ll be, it’ll look a lot more like an ad agency just with like a filter or a prism of a lot of weird, which is exactly what we all love and want.

So I definitely, and also I do see us doing big campaigns. I do see us producing work of some sort, meaning like music videos or commercials or ad campaigns. I mean, I want to really help take my clients to the next level. And so I think in five years, I mean, PS group doesn’t look like what it did five years ago.

It doesn’t even look the same as a year ago. So I am very excited to see what it will be in five years. So, I mean, especially at some point I am going to be planning or I am planning to step away for a moment to write that infamous memoir, but I really want PS group to stand on its own. I don’t want it to be the Carly show.

I want it to BPS group. And I want it to be a collective of team members and individuals and clients who share a mission who share values and really, really care about this community and industry. So that’s a very, long-winded answer to your very short question.

Speaker 1 (34m 25s): So what makes you feel inspired or like your best self?

Speaker 2 (34m 30s): I think frankly, we said it earlier, watching the people I’m helping succeed, you know, their success is, is our success. And you know, when people say, how can I, how can I thank you for the help you provided? I’m affirm you do it for someone else one day, you know, pay it forward. That is not paying me back because frankly the more I’m able to help someone and they, and it helps them genuinely and you see them thriving and succeeding and attaining their goals and eventually helping others, you know, that I received so much more from that than they originally received from me.

So, and I know that’s how so Pollyanna kumbaya, but

Speaker 1 (35m 24s): No, no. Cause I feel exactly the same way.

Speaker 2 (35m 28s): I mean,

Speaker 1 (35m 29s): I mean, my clients succeeding, my clients succeeding, somebody selling a website and getting a good return for all their work or somebody buying a property and turning it into an, even more of a success and being thankful for that. And on my way on my website, you see stories like that with the testimonials and yeah. So I feel the same way exactly the same way.

Speaker 2 (36m 1s): Yeah. I mean, they’re really, I mean, this will have aired by them. So I guess we’ll know in August, but we have a number of people up for awards experts in

Speaker 1 (36m 15s): A few weeks

Speaker 2 (36m 17s): And we even have a team member who’s up for an award and I am just, I am so I’m more excited for them than I would be if I were, I mean, I started crying when one of our clients won a fan AVN award and, and I just I’m. So it just, it means it makes you feel full because I’ve been through a lot in my life that makes me jaded and I could be really cynical, but at a certain point in my life, I just said, you know what?

I can choose to be cynical or I could choose to believe there is positive positivity in the world. So why don’t I just choose that? And I’m truly believe that, you know, that helping others really is the most fulfilling element because it does present opportunities for you as well. So it always comes full circle. I feel,

Speaker 1 (37m 21s): I agree. So what are your dream achievements?

Speaker 2 (37m 25s): I would absolutely love after saying I want my clients, but you know, want my clients or a client project to be recognized in some way in the mainstream spear for an adult project. I want the quality of work that this industry is putting out and that we put out to rival any vanilla or civilian project, want it to be that good.

And I want it to be that effective and that thought provoking, you know, I also really want to be on lip-sync battle. I think I would do really well on that. I think the whole production would be very fun and I practice a lot in my bathroom, but beyond that, like I am

Speaker 1 (38m 19s): Instead of singing in your shower.

Speaker 2 (38m 21s): Exactly. I do have the hairbrush microphone. So, but yeah, and I mean, and of course

Speaker 1 (38m 28s): I got the visual Carly, I got the vision.

Speaker 2 (38m 31s): It’s not a pretty picture. Let me tell you, it

Speaker 1 (38m 34s): Depends on who’s thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (38m 37s): Oh God, that’s a whole other tangent and a lot. And then of course I really do feel very passionate about this infamous book that I’ve been working on for a very long time, but you know, it just never felt right. And eventually I realized this story is still going.

Speaker 1 (38m 56s): Yeah, absolutely. You can’t write a book unless the story is completed. Right.

Speaker 2 (39m 3s): Exactly. Exactly. So I’m giving myself a little bit of a break, but we have some ideas. We have a lot of notes.

Speaker 1 (39m 13s): Sure. Well, you’ve had a lot of lives and you know, I mean, it’s something that I’m sure people would be interested in reading.

Speaker 2 (39m 22s): Cool. Thank you. Well, we’ll definitely see, I mean, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, so I’ll have to send the notes to you so that you can, you know, ghost write.

Speaker 1 (39m 33s): There you go. Well, Hey, in Mexico, that is probably more likely to get hit by a taxi. So be careful

Speaker 2 (39m 39s): Or a donkey.

Speaker 1 (39m 42s): Yeah. That too, that too. Or a donkey with a cart behind it. So what profession, other than your own, would you like to attempt

Speaker 2 (39m 52s): A lot? I mean,

Speaker 1 (39m 54s): Okay. Tell, tell us, give me the top five,

Speaker 2 (39m 58s): Top five professional napper. I could really

Speaker 1 (40m 2s): Use

Speaker 2 (40m 3s): More sleep in my life. I would also, you know, what is like one of those TV careers that probably looks nothing like it in reality, I really want to be one of those like stolen art investigators, like a bounty hunter for a Monet. And then I always, I mean my childhood dreams, I really wanted to be a grocery checkout person until I was four.

And then I changed to a mathematician. Now let’s be honest. I cannot even count to 20 with my shoes off now. So, but honestly,

Speaker 1 (40m 48s): And I wanted to be a fireman, but you know what kind of, and not also also a garbage man. So, cause I’d always look out the window and see the garbage man and go, oh, that’s cool.

Speaker 2 (40m 57s): They’ve got to get up. They get down. Like there, they’re hanging off the back of the truck. Like it’s very risky, like railing. So I get it, I get it. But frankly, I just, I love what I do now. I really do.

Speaker 1 (41m 14s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41m 15s): It’s amazing. I get to work with legends in this industry. I get to work with people who are going to be legends. I get to learn from all these people. It’s just every walk of life and every background, you know, I mean, when we, it sounds so cheesy, but like we get stagnant when we stop inquiring and being curious. So I think this, this industry in my job right now allows me to do that and wants me to do that.

So yeah, I’ve definitely found my place. I think.

Speaker 1 (41m 52s): Well, you seem to have Carlin. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. Adult am broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 1s): Likewise. Thank you, Bruce. It was a pleasure being here.

Speaker 1 (42m 4s): The pleasure was mine. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, find new ways to monetize your website, such as sell advertising. If you’ve got a free site, like a tube, that’s the best way to monetize your site. If you have a tube, another way to make more money is to sell premium memberships, offer free users, one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality video or longer videos or both.

You can also make the site ad free for premium members. Start an affiliate program. If you have a pay site, this is a great way to increase your quality traffic and get more joins with all sites. You can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell your users. Pay sites can also sell, pay per view where people have the option of paying by the scene for content they can’t get on the site. This is also another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee, sell them other products like toys and novelties market, your business.

Do things do improve your search engine results. There are some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, contact us on our website lists all of the benefits of your site in your marketing and how they affect the user. And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firms, such as adult B2B marketing, which we also happened to own eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time check services you pay for like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options.

Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch. Plus got higher quality hosting in the process. Again, ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost-effectively along with this, make your profit and loss statement. Show more profit, increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that make sure your P and L statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal expenses you put in. This will cost you money when you sell it may help you with the tax man to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you.

If you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement, remember every dollar in profit increases the value of your website. As much as three to four times, this is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars, more on their sale just by adjusting the P and L statement to reflect actual business expenses, as opposed to a bunch of BS. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with comedian and actor Dan Frigalette. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Carly David of PS Group. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Talk to you again next week on adult side broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Andra of Webmaster Access.

ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker would like to announce we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts! That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral.
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction.
ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broke. We’re proud to offer for sale a unique network of pay sites.

The network includes six sites of many different stripes, a gay cosplay back and Fetter site, a straight pegging light fendom boy, girl, and pantyhose fetish site, a by threesome site, a queer hot sex site, a hardcore BDSM and bonded site, and finally a trans female site. There’s also a very active affiliate program with NATS as its backend through over a decade of independently funding shooting and selling niche content.

They founded the six pay sites found eager, ethical, and competent directors to run them and put content on them. As well as having an affiliate program. Most of the content is exclusive with an influx of cash and a dedicated team to help grow the brand. There was a lot of opportunity for growth, only $1.6 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site broker talk is Aandra from WMA Aandra thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 19s): Hey Bruce. Happy to be here. Thank you. How’s it going? It’s going amazing. I’m just checking out one way to get to Cuba. So I guess this one out.

Speaker 1 (2m 34s): Yeah, right. Yeah. Right. You’ll be there. It’s great to have you back on the podcast. So Andrea has been in our space for over eight years. She’s won multiple awards. She’s a go-to person. If you need to make a connection or seal a deal, she’s made some real miracles happen when it came to branding herself. But also the project she’s worked for with appearances on many media outlets, like vice BBC, the economist voyage LA and the LA times she’s done great work to represent the industry to a wider audience.

She’s taking the same enthusiasm and expertise to webmaster access to make sure it’s a trade show of the highest quality honored does event coordination and PR for the show, basically a little bit of everything from sales to branding, organizing the schedule and getting people to attend the show. Yeah, just like the last time we talked, she basically runs a place. Like I said, last time when we were talking about the studio, you were virtually running the webmaster access, webmaster X. This is one of the longest running trade shows in the industry with the right combination of networking education and fun.

The show’s a go-to event for all industry professionals, including myself. WMA will happen this year in Cypress, starting Thursday at the beautiful grand resort five-star hotel where master access Cypress will offer an awesome selection of content tracks and 100 plus speakers exploring the newest developments in key sectors, such as affiliate marketing, crypto content creation, dating e-commerce gambling and Forex. So how was that commercial?

Speaker 2 (4m 14s): I’m definitely going to buy that one way ticket. Now.

Speaker 1 (4m 18s): She’s like, I don’t want to do all that. You’ve already did it.

Speaker 2 (4m 21s): Oh my God. Is that what’s happening?

Speaker 1 (4m 25s): That’s what’s happening. And you’re gonna tell us all bout it.

Speaker 2 (4m 30s): Ah, well, why do you want to know just come and it’s going to be,

Speaker 1 (4m 35s): Yes, it will. And I got to say more than that. We’re all, we’re only two and a half minutes in at that. Doesn’t quite cut it. So Audra, you used to coordinate another trade show. Now I would imagine it’s an exciting opportunity for you to work on something new and as well, established as WMA.

Speaker 2 (4m 54s): It’s actually exciting to get to finish one because the, the other Tricia that I was working with a few, a few years ago, it happened right in the year, the beautiful year of COVID. So would that kind of ruin all our plans for everything. And you know, as much as, as much as we try to, you know, do something about it, just, you know, offer like virtual interviews and stuff like that.

It just wasn’t a, it wasn’t, it wasn’t what people were looking for. And then I decided to, to quit the company a year and a bit ago still did, I did attend the last trade show. It went to, it went great. And I’m like, congratulations to the organizers. They did a great job, but now this one is, wow. It’s I mean, it’s, it’s, you know, you never really realize how much work it goes into creating something like this.

And I think it’s a, also like a, a fight, I would say between what your expectations are as an organizer supposed to like the, the expectations of the people that are attending, you know, cause like, like you have a whole alphabetic thing. Like you have not just the ABCs of something, you know, you have a, to Z that are your expectations and you know, how things are supposed to work or how some, some things you should look like and stuff like that, which are not things that people see, you know, on the outside.

And then you’re like, oh my God, did they just this drive? Well, they will. They notice something like that. So it’s always a little, a little fight, but for sure, my experience working with the former trade show has helped a lot besides building the network. I mean, I help remind network a little bit more with the, with the former trade show. And right now, you know, I’m doing well, benefiting, benefiting from it, sorry, benefiting from it, which is great. So I’m, we’ve decided to move the, we’ve decided to move with master axis as you well know what used to be in Amsterdam.

Yes. So now we decided to move it in Cyprus. Cause like I live here, the owner lives here as well, and it’s a beautiful island. It has like most of the affiliates, the companies, the high-risk companies I’d say are here and a lot of countries around us that are interested in it. So it’s just like, it made sense at one point I’m like, why would we move it? Like people would travel here and there when it’s right in their backyard and like, why wouldn’t we do this?

And also the, the it’s, it’s great to actually be in the country that you’re planning your event in.

Speaker 1 (7m 44s): Sure.

Speaker 2 (7m 44s): You know, when talking to vendors or stuff like that is so easy.

Speaker 1 (7m 48s): How long ago did you move to Cyprus?

Speaker 2 (7m 51s): I moved to Cyprus four years ago. I think for I’m going on five years, I took, I took a break. I took, yeah, I took a break last year. I think after I quit the goodnight, I quit. The other job, started a new project. I moved to Ibiza for like six months last year from like June to December. It was great. And then I moved back to St. Brisk cause I was like, okay, that was good. That was good. But I need to go back to actual work. And Cyprus is a work hub is a business hub.

As you have so many companies that are in the industry, in our industry here, so

Speaker 1 (8m 28s): Sure. It’s a good place to be. So what’s most important when working on a trade show and what do you feel is your biggest strength in that area?

Speaker 2 (8m 39s): My personal one or like webmaster access? Definitely my ability to network. Yeah. But I would consider that a strength in my curiosity. I think being, being curious in, in an industry or in a world that thinks that it knows all is definitely a strength. Cause you know how like the Greek philosopher Seneca was saying like, what I know for certain is that I don’t know anything.

And when you have that curiosity and that’s, and that’s great. Cause like, you know, you go look at kids for when they’re like four years old. Right. That’s when they start asking a lot of questions and they’re curious all the time. So that’s when they gather information, we as adults, we kind of get to an age that we’re like, yeah, we know it all. Well, you never actually know it all. And how boring would life be if you actually knew everything? So I would, I would say that my curiosity is one of my biggest strengths.

Cause I’m always looking to learn and improve. And also my, my networking abilities in creating the connections through, through the networking, seeing the possibilities, seeing the opportunities of connecting different people in different different areas. So this would actually be one of the things that, what master DOCSIS is awesome. Cause we’re using first, we’re using the networking platform. That’s called the gala. Yeah. So actually when you’re, when you are registering on it, it will ask you about your interests.

What, what you want to see, what you want to meet. Do you want to, you know, are you interested in, let’s say affiliate marketing, are you interested in? And then if you say, yes, it’s like, are you interested in investing in talking about it and getting a job in offering good job in it? You know? So like you have all the, all these things on, on the platform, which actually helps you help you afterwards to connect with different people that have the same interest in you as you have. So it’s like so easy. Cause you don’t have to go and check the whole list of attendees and see like, okay, what does this person do?

Like what does this company, do you already have the matches meet

Speaker 1 (10m 53s): Kind of like a dating site for business.

Speaker 2 (10m 56s): It is, it is a dating site without the, you know, without the problems afterwards. Cause like in, without the P I mean, no, we actually, we do have

Speaker 1 (11m 7s): Pictures. You know, the ones I’m talking about,

Speaker 2 (11m 9s): None of this is, this is actually, I would say that this is better. Cause like, what you see is what you get and you know, fro from the start that, you know, you can actually lie on this one. Cause like, if you say like you’re interested in networking about it and you’re like, you know, you’re not, you don’t want to network about it. We will, we’ll call you out. As in with a dating site. You’re like, yeah, I’m interested in having babies and getting married and then you’re not saying no, so yeah, that would be a, that would be what makes a webmaster access.

Awesome. I mean the, the platform is what makes it great. The fact that it’s, it has people in it that have been, that are working with the in master boxes that are, have been working in other companies before, as advertisers. Right. So I know what I want. Like I see what, like what I wanted when I was working for the cam studio and we were working with, with different, with conferences and going to conferences.

I knew what I wanted then. Right. So for me, it’s really easy to transfer that knowledge into what, what, what mass Jackson is right now. That’s

Speaker 1 (12m 20s): Very valuable,

Speaker 2 (12m 22s): I would say. So. Cause like, you know, you CA you can think like, oh yeah, it’s a, it’s a great to, you know, I, my advertiser would want this and this and this and this, but then it’s really nothing that they want. So it’s really good to have that information before and to know about it before, for sure.

Speaker 1 (12m 44s): Sure. Now what’s changed with WMA since the last edition in 2019 and Amsterdam.

Speaker 2 (12m 51s): Well, a lot of things changed thankfully, 2019. It’s not, it’s not, you know, a secret 2019 was so was terrible for WME was not, that was not the greatest show we could have

Speaker 1 (13m 10s): Done. Wasn’t a bad show for me.

Speaker 2 (13m 12s): It wasn’t a, it wasn’t a terrible show, but it wasn’t the best. It wasn’t, It wasn’t at its potential. So what happened first of all, we’ve, we’ve moved it because a lot of people were complaining about, you know, Amsterdam and stuff like that. And I believe that with, with the amount of the travel that people in the industry do, being just, just sitting in this thing in one country or one, one city gets, gets boring at one point and Amsterdam is not really known as the most fun.

It’s like, it came to a point where Amsterdam was boring for all of us. And if you don’t, you never want this, like Amsterdam should not be boring. It’s a beautiful city.

Speaker 1 (13m 54s): Oh boy, it shouldn’t be, but it did get that way after a while. I have to agree with you

Speaker 2 (14m 2s): Mostly

Speaker 1 (14m 2s): As a man.

Speaker 2 (14m 3s): I I’m sorry. I don’t, I don’t want to know that. Sorry, is it, I know this is the thing. I mean, it got to a point where it’s just like, ah, yeah. You know, Amsterdam, so then moving it to moving it to Cyprus, that’s it, that’s a new thing. Moving into Cyprus, then opening it up to different verticals. We have temporary vehicles right now, which is a, you know, way more than we then we had before. Oh, we’re working, we’re looking at, at people from not just from adult, but mainstream, but service providers.

We’re looking at people that are interested in, you know, learning more about the industry and we’re doing, we’re taking a different approach here and not trying to get adult into mainstream, but allowing mainstream to come into adult And to see it, which is, you know, if you change that, if you, if you think about it is like, it’s, it’s a smart thing. Because at any show, like any mainstream show that anyone from the adult industry goes, you’re gonna be met with like people looking down on you or being, you know, stuff like that.

So we don’t want to do that. And then the verticals that we’re looking at, obviously, you know, how the tech, how technology develops and how the market develops. We have a new would be blockchain, casino, gaming, gambling, gaming, e-commerce, we’re still keeping content creation. We’re actually developing content more, more into content creation. Start-ups entertainment. You know, we have different verticals that are really, really, really good. And that are great with the, with the market that we’re seeing right now, the people that are working with the, with, with Ms.

Jax has have changed it’s myself. I was joined the, I joined the team. So that’s a plus, oh, G

Speaker 1 (16m 1s): It is a big, big plus for me.

Speaker 2 (16m 4s): I appreciate that. I appreciate that. So yeah, the schedule is different. We’re looking at, thank you. We don’t have a meat market. I hate me, myself personally. I hate meat market. It’s just, and right now in the age of COVID and monkeypox and whatever got them, disease comes. I don’t want to be in a room in a steamy room with a lot of people that are very close to each other and screaming at each other and over each other. Cause you can hear shit, sorry. Oh, you can’t hear anything at the meat market.

Right. Everybody’s talking everybody’s whatever. So we took out the meat market and we have the booths that, so the expo is going to look like a, like a normal trade show expo. You have the booths, you have, you have the places to put your swag. If you want to not, you know, carry it around and put it at meat market. Because like nobody actually takes that. It’s it’s

Speaker 1 (17m 3s): Depends on the item.

Speaker 2 (17m 5s): It depends on the item as well. But in the same time, like you, if you want, if you’re investing in swag for your company and it’s a great sweat, great, you’ve invested in it. You’ve put hours in it, money in it, people in it and all of that. And then you bring it to the meat market. And what everybody is doing is not actually even talking to you about whatever your company does, but they go, oh, go to X company’s name, get swag, get whatever they have. Cause it’s like really cool. Like very I’ve

Speaker 1 (17m 33s): Seen the light.

Speaker 2 (17m 34s): Exactly. And it’s like, it’s disrespectful for the work that you have put into doing that. You know? So we, we were like, you know, let’s, let’s take that. Let’s take that up. And so, like I said, we removed the meat market and now we have companies something that’s called company presentations or case studies. This is a place where people for companies and people to present, whatever think will think they have for 20 minutes, 20 minutes is enough time to present anything.

You do not need more time to talk about your product. And it,

Speaker 1 (18m 10s): I just need a minute. My elevator pitch has shined.

Speaker 2 (18m 13s): Then we go see you though. He goes, so you ha you have speed networking though for that. But then the company presentations or the case study, it allows more companies to talk about their products. And then in event invites the interested parties to their booth to actually close the deal. So, you know, you’re giving them a little bit of whatever you’re doing and you’re presenting some, I dunno, whatever you have in your company, some challenges, some cool things that you’ve done. And then you can, you can take them back to your booth in it, or in the, in the meeting area that we have in the, in the expo and talk about it more and then has, as we understood how important networking is.

Again, I’m going to push this networking thing as much as I can. Cause it’s, it’s it’s,

Speaker 1 (18m 57s): I think it’s most important to me.

Speaker 2 (18m 59s): Absolutely. And it should be for everyone. We’ve set up a, a great, welcome and reception with networking session, with networking sessions, the networking reception is held by a feel-good business club, which, which is there, there they’re great young people that are doing a lot of affiliate meetups and stuff like that in town with their opening to everyone, we have happy hours on the beach. Like literally we’re kicking everybody out at five because there’s no reason to be in the next school for more than eight hours.

It is inhuman. So we’re kicking everybody out. We’re giving everybody beer, go to the goddamn beach, talk between themselves, you know, just, you know, relax a little bit. Cause that’s when you do business <inaudible> business, sitting down and talking about it. But in the same time meeting, more people is in networking events. And then obviously we have a, we have parties and one of them is something that I’ve really, really always dreamed of doing gets a beach party on the last day.

Yeah. It’s going to be amazing. It’s going to be so great. And yeah, also the, the, the plane, we have a plane, which has not been done before. I don’t think it’s, I, I, from my knowledge, it has not been done before. We’ve charted a plane from Prague to Cyprus. Well, we still have some tickets if you, if you haven’t booked the tickets,

Speaker 1 (20m 31s): It’s too late, too late to cancel, but maybe I’ll take your plane instead. It sounds like more fun.

Speaker 2 (20m 37s): It’s going to be a plane full of industry. People like there, the everybody that’s coming from, from Prague, from the show there and people that are not joining the show in Prague, but our improv and join know what mass Jax is. They’re coming on that plane. And it’s going to be like, it’s going to be literally three hours of networking on a plane, which is amazing. And you know, I’m really grateful for our, or our plan sponsor will know here. Cause they, they really, they really stepped it up. It was

Speaker 1 (21m 5s): Really cancel my ticket.

Speaker 2 (21m 8s): No worries. No worries.

Speaker 1 (21m 11s): Is it one flight?

Speaker 2 (21m 12s): It’s one flight. Yeah. It’s one. Yeah. It’s one flight. It’s enough. It’s more than

Speaker 1 (21m 19s): Just

Speaker 2 (21m 20s): On the 25th at 10 or 11. We’re still looking at it. Cause we’re looking on the, yeah, so 10 or 11 in the, in the morning, go on the website, go on the website and check it out there. Get your ticket there.

Speaker 1 (21m 35s): Sounds good.

Speaker 2 (21m 36s): Okay.

Speaker 1 (21m 37s): So, and by the time this runs, I’m sure it will be full. So

Speaker 2 (21m 42s): I mean, there’s a few tickets left, so I tell them,

Speaker 1 (21m 46s): We’re doing, we’re doing this too. We’re doing this this two weeks before. So anyway. Yeah. So by, by the time, our, in, in 13 days when this runs, I, I have a tendency to think it’ll be full, but never hurts to check. Right?

Speaker 2 (22m 1s): Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (22m 2s): So there are a lot more opportunities for affiliates at the show than in previous versions. What types of affiliates will be there and how can we all benefit from that portion of the show

Speaker 2 (22m 15s): We’re going to have, like I said, we have a lot of new verticals right now. So besides the main verticals, adult crypto, dating gambling, traffic, FinTech, e-commerce, these comes with these come with their affiliates as well. So it’s not only the, it’s not only the companies that are going to be looking at each other and being like, yay. You know, we have a lot of people that are coming to, to join the failures that are coming to, to see what what’s happening with, what, what you can benefit from, you know, talking to, to the companies that are there, seeing what their, their products are going to the case.

Studies, hearing the seminars, going to the main stage to hear the keynotes, every keynote that we have is from a different vertical. So this would be really cool. So check that out case studies as well. So yeah, as a, as an affiliate with the companies and the verticals that we have right now, it’s really, it’s incredible.

Speaker 1 (23m 14s): Okay. Yeah. And WMA has never been known as an affiliate show before, so that’s a big change.

Speaker 2 (23m 20s): It’s still not, there’s still not an affiliate show. It’s a, it’s an all-inclusive conference that wants to change and is changing and is bringing in and morphing into something that’s half and half and half and half and half and half quarters of things. You know, you need to adapt to technology. You need to adapt to the new, to the, the things that are happening right now, taking away is saying that, you know, you’re not, let’s see how we were cam show before and saying like, yeah, now we’re an affiliate show that will that’s.

You know where, in my opinion, my personal opinion, it’s a recipe for disaster. They cannot be a cam show for 10 years and then say like, oh, you know what, we’re an affiliate show. You’re not, you know, make the transition. And also, and also like, say like, you’re, you’re an affiliate show. And then you have a cam sponsors. It makes no sense. And it, you know, it’s just, you lied to your sponsors and you liked your attendees. No, what we’re doing is we have adult, we have crypto.

We that’s not, you know, adult, we would add say that what master access is more of a higher risk company conference. That would be the perfect way to describe.

Speaker 1 (24m 38s): Absolutely, absolutely. Well, and I remember that was being discussed in 2019 that, that this was going to be changing to that. And I believe if I’m not mistaken at that time, Panos was talking about Cyprus. So I know this has been in the works for a long time, so that’s, that’s really cool that it’s finally coming to fruition, post pandemic. So what else does Cypress have to offer? You’re a good person to ask since you live there for people like me, who haven’t been there before,

Speaker 2 (25m 11s): Besides the beautiful scenery that Cypress has to offer, like it’s a, it’s a beautiful island. It’s I would recommend, I would advise everyone that comes to take a few days after just to visit it because you have beautiful boat trips, you have something that you have beautiful sea capes that is just spectacular. The water is gorgeous. The prices so are fairly, fairly, you know, nice and say, oh yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I’m sure wasn’t then you have look, Cyprus is a combination of mountain and sea in heel and everything together. That’s beautiful. And then, you know, you have great people. It’s a touristic college. You’re going to see a lot of, of expats. You’re going to see a lot of just people that are joyous. The food is incredible. The food is incredible. My first time here, I remember I went to dismiss a place, misses like tapas.

People are more okay. But it’s like, it’s not top us. It’s like top boss on, on cocaine, top boss on steroids. Okay. It come, it just, you eat for like four hours. Like they don’t stop bringing you food. It is insane. So that’s an, I swear, like after, after the two hours into that messy place, I was like, please stop. Like I was looking at the waiter and I was like, please, I beg stop.

I can’t like go

Speaker 1 (26m 53s): Away. Is it like an all you can eat thing?

Speaker 2 (26m 55s): No, it’s not. So like you, you choose you. No, no, no, no, no, no. So it’s a set. It’s a set menu. So it’s a set price. So it’s like it’s around 20 years per person. I’d say so it’s not a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (27m 9s): Oh, okay. I was kind of imagining that they, from what you were saying, that they kept bringing you food and then they brought you a 200 year old bill program.

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): Oh God, no, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely not. No. It’s like 20 and 20 euros a, of a person for the visit and they bring you like, they’re the, I’m not even kidding. Like for four hours you have alcohol and food. So you, you say like, you start with the dibs, you start with the salads and stuff like that. And then they start with like, you know, the most amazing beef in, you know, in the oven cooked for seven hours. And then you have the zucchini.

I don’t know what, and it’s just, I swear, bruise. Like, it’s, it’s insane, but you need to take it. Like my advice for everyone, everybody that tries tapa tries Meza for the first, for the first time, don’t eat a lot in the first hour because then you’re not going to be able to enjoy it. And this is like, what would they actually, you know, do they’re bringing you the food, the food that fills you up in the, you know, in the first hours and then,

Speaker 1 (28m 17s): You know, good stuff.

Speaker 2 (28m 18s): Exactly. Ah, and you can’t anymore because you’re full, you’re only human.

Speaker 1 (28m 25s): Well, it’s kind of what they do. I don’t know if you’ve been to one of those. I’m sure you have one of those Brazilian steakhouses. I can’t pronounce that word where you get all the, all the meat you can eat. Okay. But what they have is they have this amazing salad bar with all kinds of wonderful stuff on it and they bring you bread. And if you eat all that stuff, then you’re not really going to enjoy the meat.

Speaker 2 (28m 49s): Exactly. Exactly. So this is this, this is the guide to eating visit in Cypress and don’t go,

Speaker 1 (28m 56s): You’re going to have to point me to the right Meza place. Then

Speaker 2 (28m 59s): We will have dinners and it will be a lot of good food. So no worries about it all up. I’ll take you guys out. I’ll show you how to,

Speaker 1 (29m 7s): It sounds like a plan. So what would attendees expect to find at WMA that they wouldn’t find at other shows?

Speaker 2 (29m 18s): Oh, well, like I, like I mentioned before, we are bringing in some mainstream people. So we’re having some really great speakers that are talking about neuro marketing that hasn’t really been done before. We have popping up of law that is talking about the importance branding and personal branding and how important branding is in, in, in, in your company, which is not necessarily directed to a adult or anything.

It’s just, you know, in the, everything you have Juliet grantee, that is absolutely amazing. And she’s talking about the art of making content, which is something new with, hasn’t been, it hasn’t been done before. Then you have a four X companies are talking about the trends in FinTech. So you have a lot of, a lot of new company presentations and keynotes that haven’t really been done before. And we’re bringing in these new people that are talking about something that’s totally new and it’s not necessarily just business.

It’s about personal development. It’s about branding. It’s about, neuro-marketing no housing, everything,

Speaker 1 (30m 37s): You know, when you, when you think about all that stuff, really what works in mainstream works and adult marketing, for instance, if you can market successfully and mainstream, you can market successfully and adult, most people can’t market their ways out of a paper bag. Unfortunately, that’s been my experience as a marketer. So especially in a tall, unfortunately, so it’s so true that mainstream marketing principles really need to be followed in order to see success.

Speaker 2 (31m 11s): I would, I would say that cause like at the end of the day, we’re not that different, right? Whatever works for one it’s, it’s the digital marketing world universe. It, it should work. I’ve always said that the adult industry is more creative when it comes to this because we have more challenges than the marketing and then the mainstream marketing. Right. But it’s still knowing and understanding how other businesses work and how other verticals work and adopting that and putting that into your business and your plan of, you know, marketing and PR that’s amazing.

And it shows that you’re, you’re open to it. There’s the <inaudible> from conversions club conversion club, which we’ll, we’ll talk about how to get a thousand B2B leads for 90, $90 a month. And you have people that are spending thousands and thousands and thousands for like the half of it, you know? So you have people that are, are talking about really, really, really cool things. And then, you know, have how to build a campsite.

Also there’s people that are talking about literally how to actually build this. Like how, what does it mean how to build it, what you can do about it? You know, branding personal it’s it’s, it’s beautiful. I can await. Okay. I’m canceling that ticket to Cuba.

Speaker 1 (32m 33s): Very cool. Very cool. So there’s a seminar about communication and community, the business world. So what’s the idea behind that.

Speaker 2 (32m 43s): Okay. So I strongly believe that like, like I said before, right? Communicate community is super important. Networking is super important. At the end of the day, we all go to conferences and networking events. Not only for business reasons, primarily, right? How many times have we done like the best deals at the night bar? You know, after the conference has the conference show has ended, right?

So we want that connection. We want that community. So we have a panel of, I would say the best networkers from different verticals. And that will show you the tips and tricks. And why, why participating in conferences and networking events is vital for your business, especially now in this and this reality that we have. Cause like I I’ve seen, and I’ve noticed a lot of companies right now after the pandemic and they go, oh, I mean, I’m doing my business great. Without going to conferences.

You know, if anything, this, these last two years have shown me that I can do a great business without attending conferences. Didn’t might be true in like, like 20%, but it’s not really cause like if you do business and it’s a known fact that you do business with people that, you know, you do business with people that you like,

Speaker 1 (34m 4s): Especially in this industry, especially in adult, because of it because of the trust or lack thereof.

Speaker 2 (34m 10s): But this is, this is everywhere. Like we need to trust the people that are coming. So on this panel, AKI hamam from the founder of affiliate business club. The guys that I was telling you about AKI has built his own from the business club that is designed to help network, to help people network. So he’s created this, this space then you had, you have Andy Woolmer, who is a formula.

I’m saying like, I love Andy. Andy is so cool. And Andy, if anything, everybody knows Andy from the, from adult to mainstream, like I’ve seen him on, on stage in, in Columbia at a, at a cam show.

Speaker 1 (34m 55s): I wasn’t going to say, do I want to hear about this Andy onstage in Columbia? Was it it wasn’t a donkey show.

Speaker 2 (35m 4s): No,

Speaker 1 (35m 4s): That’s Mexico. Oh, I’m sorry. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (35m 8s): Then I’ve seen Andy in, in Kiev at Macchia, you know, so like it’s totally different experiences, but he still gets a lot of people around

Speaker 1 (35m 18s): Andy is the best networker in our industry bar. None,

Speaker 2 (35m 24s): I would say so I would, I would definitely. So then you have Danny from, from I’m like who? Everybody, like literally everybody who knows Danny, they would say, oh my God, I love this guy. You know? And th this is what you want. Then it’s Jim Austin from, from cert, as he’s starting with cert is now everybody knows gym as well. And then it’s it’s me as well. So I’m on the panel as well.

Speaker 1 (35m 48s): Oh, I should be. I should be on this panel, Andre. I’m sorry, because I’m because I’m a networker as well, but that’s okay. I’ll let, I’ll let it slide this time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 57s): Come, come and ask us, come and ask us difficult questions then. But

Speaker 1 (36m 2s): Yes,

Speaker 2 (36m 5s): I’ve graded this, this fennel with this in mind after this panel, actually I was born after I had a conversation with someone that was like, yeah, it doesn’t make sense. My boss doesn’t want to send me because he thinks that networking or going to conferences doesn’t really make sense. It was like, but it does though. But it does. Cause like now you see all these new affiliates on Skype, hitting you up and being like, Hey, I have this offer for you. It’s like, I don’t know you. Like, I do not know you and you don’t know me.

You don’t know the, the, my business. And it’s just, it gets to this point that it’s just like a little bit cringey. You know, you don’t want to talk to someone that you don’t know except for if their offer is absolutely amazing, but it’s not,

Speaker 1 (36m 51s): Unless they have, unless they have a website to sell, then I most definitely want to talk to them.

Speaker 2 (36m 56s): Yeah. But like, for me, it’s just like, I got, I got hit up like a few, a few days ago. Some girl was texting me like, Hey, I’m there. How are you? And like, I literally have on Skype, what webmaster Jax is like, it says there, it’s like, yeah, I’m doing good. We’re we’re, I’m part of a, I dunno, network. We’re selling good traffic. We’re selling disability. Do you see what I’m doing? Like just read.

Speaker 1 (37m 19s): Yeah. And you know, you bring up a really good point. That’s a complaint I’ve had, especially when I’m signed up for shows. This happens a lot with the sign-up with TES, because they’ve got the, the platform there and I’m going to get, I’m not on umbrella yet for this show, but I will be after right after this call and people contact me and they want to sell me traffic by traffic, or they want to buy my traffic and I don’t sell traffic or they want to sell me processing.

I don’t need processing or would I like to be their affiliate for what? I don’t have sites. And I’m as polite and nice as possible. And usually what I do is I just turn the tables and say, Hey, you probably talked to a lot of people. We have an affiliate program. You should be our affiliate. The funniest thing it can do to somebody trying to sell you is just turn around and sell them. But, but sometimes it’s effective actually, but I you’re right.

People don’t do their homework. B people so-called salespeople. Don’t do their homework before making these contacts. And people seem to be getting lazier and lazier and lazier. And I might sound old when I say that, but I usually have a pretty good idea who I’m talking to before I contact them.

Speaker 2 (38m 44s): But I think that, I think that is, you know, a sign out it’s, it’s common sense that I would, I would say common sense to

Speaker 1 (38m 55s): It’s common sense, which is a real good reason why very few people do it anymore.

Speaker 2 (39m 0s): Yeah. Common sense is not that common is it? I was, I was actually, so I love this. I’m going to tell you a little story. Now, Leah tenant, the CEO and founder of pineapple support, we all know and love her. She’s a moderator for one of the panels that we’re having at webmaster axes, that’s called the time, talent and turnover, which is talking to talking about performers and agencies that are helping performers. Right. So she called me a few days ago and she’s like, oh, Hey, I need to talk to you about the list of speakers that we you have on the panel.

And I was like, okay, sure. And she literally went with me through all of them asking me questions. Like, what does this person do? What does the, his company do? What does that company do? How do they make? And like, she was legitimately interested in everyone on that panel. So she could have, she could ask relevant questions and have an idea about what they’re doing before that that is common sense. And that is how you do business.

Speaker 1 (40m 6s): Well, not everybody is as intelligent as Leah. She’s extremely, extremely bright. And that’s why, she’s where she is today, I think is that she’s really, she really gets it.

Speaker 2 (40m 23s): I think it’s about, it’s a lot about, you know, caring about first of all, about your personal brand. Cause I mean, I wouldn’t like to, I wouldn’t want to go up on stage and you know, look stupid and then it’s about, you know, it’s, it’s their problem, you know? And then it’s about showing respect to the people that you’re talking to. You know, just like don’t like, if, if I would give an advice to, to anyone, especially with these young affiliates sales affiliates right now, read and read, just read about what that person does to see if their company is relevant.

Speaker 1 (41m 2s): IO, go to LinkedIn, go to LinkedIn in the adult space, go to expos, go to Facebook.

Speaker 2 (41m 9s): Yeah, go, go. There are so many forms. Jeff, Jeff, why.com Jeff, why is a form go,

Speaker 1 (41m 16s): Well, why not have some business directory? I mean, there’s so many, so many resources

Speaker 2 (41m 20s): You see, this is why I love umbrella so much because Brella is actually, so it’s literally when you put in your interest, in what you’re interested in, it gives you the matches. Yeah. So you can go and see what other people are doing and everything, but it gives you the relevant people that are interested in what the hell you’re selling or buying. And you can do it on your schedule without, you know, going in annoying a thousand other people with your CPA offer.

I’m sorry,

Speaker 1 (41m 53s): You sound so much. You sound so much like me. And I’m so glad that there’s someone else who feels the same way

Speaker 2 (41m 59s): Because it

Speaker 1 (41m 60s): Just bugs bugs. It bugs the shit out of me. When people sell me things that they wouldn’t try to sell me. If they learned a little bit about me.

Speaker 2 (42m 8s): Exactly. Just like putting, put in your work as this is, this is sales 1 0 1. I’m giving you a vital information here, people.

Speaker 1 (42m 16s): Yeah. But at the same time, I always reply and I’m never rude. I try not to

Speaker 2 (42m 22s): Be anyway.

Speaker 1 (42m 23s): I always, I always try to take the high road and say, Hey, well, the first question I asked them is, do you know what I do?

Speaker 2 (42m 30s): Oh God.

Speaker 1 (42m 31s): Especially if they hit me up on Skype, do you know what I do? No. Hmm. Let me tell you,

Speaker 2 (42m 40s): So

Speaker 1 (42m 42s): Then they get my elevator. Then they get my elevator pitch and the, and the link for the affiliate program. So

Speaker 2 (42m 48s): Right now I don’t even have the, I don’t have the time more power to get to do anything. I’m just saying like, look, I’m, I’m doing the conference. This is the conference, whatever you need, you’re going to find here, look it up. And they don’t even take the time to say thank you or sorry for bothering you do it a few days ago. Reach out to me on my personal Instagram asking about the, I mean, my personal Instagram is business as well. So anyways, but he’s like, yeah. So do you have traffic? I was like, no, I run this conference.

Yeah. But like, are you interested in buying traffic? Like for what? Like I was like for what would I be interested in buying traffic? Like I have what Jeffrey for the conference? Like, do you not even see the words that I’m saying?

Speaker 1 (43m 33s): Yeah. It’s frustrating. Yes. Manners, manners and common sense have gone in the same direction. Yes.

Speaker 2 (43m 41s): So this, this is why, this is why the seminar connection, connection and community and the business, I think,

Speaker 1 (43m 48s): Oh, I hope they’re going to teach best practices. I got to ask the common COVID question. How have conferences changed since the pandemic

Speaker 2 (43m 59s): I’ve seen in the, in the, in the conference space? I’ve seen a lot of companies that are not going to conferences anymore. Like for the ones that I’ve, I’ve been, it’s just like, it’s so hard right now with, with, from, from the point of view of a conference organizer. Right? Cause you never really know a hundred percent what’s going to happen. You never really know if you’re allowed that X amount of people in the space. You don’t know how the government is going to change rules and regulations and all of a sudden it’s like, yeah, we, you need to wear masks now we’re, we’re just in capacity to like 300 people.

Right? So it’s a, it’s kind of a, it’s kind of a, a game and you need to kind of guess, and then you need to take care of your, your attendees and your sponsors. But I would say that what worked before doesn’t really work anymore. So like if you’re planning a conference and your whole idea is to keep people inside, you’re like, you’re, you’re so focused on developing the schedule with the vitamin seminars and stuff or something like that in you’re not looking at doing networking events in which you actually help people network, not just put them in a room and be like, yo, good luck with that.

I think you’re going to fail. So you need, you need to have that. You need to reintroduce people to people and teach them how to, how to handle themselves and how to create relations.

Speaker 1 (45m 25s): Well done. So what advice do you have for people coming to WMA?

Speaker 2 (45m 31s): I bring sunscreen hydrate. I mean, besides that, he says that, look, if you’re, if you are a newbie in the industry, this is not only for WME. This is I’m sharing this a vital vital piece of advice. If you are a new V, if this is your first conference, take it easy. There are a lot of

Speaker 1 (46m 1s): Drinks,

Speaker 2 (46m 2s): Drinks. Exactly. See, you know, you know where I’m going with this?

Speaker 1 (46m 5s): Well, I could, I could tell you where you were just delicately going along. And I just thought I’d throw it right out there.

Speaker 2 (46m 11s): There are a lot of open bars. There are a lot of parties. If you go to a conference, do not try to not go overboard. People are making more business. After the conference has ended at clubs at networking event at parties and dinners, then they’re making in the, in the expo hall. So try not to make a fool of yourself in your company because it is going to stick. That is going to stick on you.

And you’re going to look bad in your company is going to look that re remember that you’re representing the company. You’re representing a brand in more. If anything, you’re representing yourself. So carry yourself, carry yourself with, with the grace and humor and be a, be nice to everyone. Don’t be a cunt or a Dick or whatever. Don’t be a kind and good

Speaker 1 (47m 8s): Person,

Speaker 2 (47m 10s): Whatever, whatever don’t be an, but be an a, B a B a year. Now we have two years in a mouth for a reason to listen more and to talk less.

Speaker 1 (47m 20s): So I have two ears. I don’t know. I don’t know where you got the third, but it’s okay.

Speaker 2 (47m 24s): Did I say three? I’m so

Speaker 1 (47m 26s): Dead, but it’s all right.

Speaker 2 (47m 29s): Years. And it’s English, man. I’m speaking. This is the definition of a polyglot. You screw up every language that you know, so you have two years in a mouth with a reason, right? To listen more and to talk less. So when you’re going to a conference, remember that what you need to do is actually listen to what the people are saying. And also ask, use your mouth to ask questions, ask relevant questions. No question is stupid. If you don’t know what that person does, you know, let’s say that they’re not working.

They’re not a CPE network, whatever. They’re not, you know, listen to what they have to say. Cause you never know when you’re going to need that, that information in your, in your life. You never know, even if it’s for personal use or for professionally. So this would be like the, my main, you know, general device in, in for, for conferences for a Cypress, I would say, come arrested, come prepared. We have so many people that are there in are eager to learn about new new companies and new people.

Just make sure that you have everything set, be on Barilla, schedule your meetings beforehand because it is going to be full. So schedule your meetings beforehand. So you make sure that at the end of it, you, you draw a line and you see like, okay, so I’ve hit my target things and network as much as you can outside of your company, no matter who you talk to, like just be open to talking to everyone and listening to everyone and what everybody has to say and do go to the seminars in the keynotes.

They’re really interesting.

Speaker 1 (49m 14s): Absolutely. I’m looking forward to it. Well, Andre, I like to thank you for being back with us today on adult side broker tuck. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (49m 24s): Sure. I think thank you so much for having me and looking forward to, to having you in Cyprus and having everybody that’s listening to this and in Cyprus and if not in Cyprus into next 20, 23, from six to 8th of January in Las Vegas at the same hotel, like last year at resorts world. So we’re really looking forward to having you guys there. If you cannot make it to WMA now

Speaker 1 (49m 51s): I’ll see it. Both. My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your website design. Up-to-date do a redesign from time to time. People will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success. If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things.

I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’ll end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good. And you’re competitive. The same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing that you’re not doing?

Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet that competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success. Make sure everything on your website works well. Make sure all of your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’ll lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They click out immediately and go to the next result in Google. If they don’t find exactly what it is they’re looking for.

If the site is hard to navigate or things, don’t work, check all of your internal scripts and plugins and make sure everything is updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week, we’ll be speaking with Carly David of PS group. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Andra. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with sex toy expert Kim Airs.

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Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Kim heirs. Hey Kim, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 29s): It’s a real pleasure to be here. I love podcasts. Yay.

Speaker 1 (2m 34s): As do I, we had such a nice conversation beforehand. We could have gone on for hours about baseball.

Speaker 2 (2m 41s): It’s my favorite sport. Everybody’s like, oh, you must like football, cuz it’s on a red Sox fan, which we talked about. We’re like, oh, you must like the Patriots or you know, or the Bruins or the, you know, the Celtics I’m like, no,

Speaker 1 (2m 54s): No, just the socks. Just

Speaker 2 (2m 55s): The socks actually get depressed in, you know, the end of October.

Speaker 1 (3m 0s): Don’t we all don’t we all I know all baseball fans do exactly. Well. Lemme tell, let me tell the world about you. Oh goodness. Sexuality, educator, sex toy expert, public speaker blogger and sex industry writer combines her clear, concise sex education with a healthy dose of humor. She easily puts everyone at ease with her honesty and straightforward approach to a healthy sex life. She was the founder of new England’s first female and couple’s friendly sex toy store grand opening.

When she left her job at Harvard to sell rubber dicks to girls. Now Kim’s been featured in Boston magazine, Marie Claire Playboy Playgirl AOL, the daily male and many others. Kim’s a certified sex educator and her passion is helping others be comfortable about sexuality and gaining confidence in all things sex, not to mention sharing a good, dirty joker too on all social media. She’s at Kim heirs, a I R S YouTube at Kim heirs grand opening with an exclamation mark and on only fans at Kim heirs.

I’m sorry. That’s all the time we have today. Okay. I

Speaker 2 (4m 12s): Know. Thank God. There’s only one of me. That’s what I keep saying. It’s all social media, Kim HES. I’m like, oh, thank God.

Speaker 1 (4m 20s): Sure. So, so Kim, yeah. How, how long have you been in the business and talk a little bit about your journey?

Speaker 2 (4m 29s): Sure. Well, it’s basically LA LA LA LA. I was married in a past life is how I like to refer to it seven and a half years. It’s okay. It was, you know, regular, no house, no kids, really simple divorce, blah, blah, blah. And, and he was like really like non adventurous and me, I don’t have a mono. I do not have a monogamous Bo in my body. I just like, you know? Yeah, I’ll love you and I’ll marry you, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna stop fucking around and you know, and stuff like that.

So that’s always been my Mo it’s definitely a deal breaker when you’re not both on the same pattern, you know, same launching thing. And that’s how

Speaker 1 (5m 11s): You wanna, you wanna hear something funny? I just, I just did a, I just did an interview before you with Michael Ramos who owns ASN entertainment, which is a lifestyle publication. So it’s kind of interesting. Oh yeah. That you say that because he was talking about the whole journey with his wife and getting into the lifestyle. But anyway, go

Speaker 2 (5m 29s): Ahead for sure. Yeah. No, no, that’s it. And so, so yeah, so anyway, so we got divorced seven and a half years, super easy. And then I met a Swedish guy who was like, and I’ve always been really comfortable around sex stuff. Anyway, I think a lot of it has to do my mom’s European. She was a war bride in world war II, the, my dad, the American soldier and the whole bit and stuff. So the Europeans definitely have a different attitude around sexuality and sex. So I think I inherited that a lot from that side of the family.

So anyway, in 88 I no 87. It would’ve been, I met a guy that I call this smut hound who into totally everything sex. And I was like, I fucking love this stuff. Just like public sex, strip joints, porno needing porno stars, sex toys. I mean, it’s like everything. So it was just totally opened. Blue, opened the door for me on all that stuff. So, so at that time I started working at Harvard university that was at 88 and kind of, cause since I’m like so honest and open about this stuff, I was like the, in the economic department, like the girlfriend that you’d go to with your questions and stuff.

And then I was also the one that would like take them into the combat zone in Boston to buy a vibrator. And it would be like, okay, let’s go do this. And they all knew me at the porno stores cuz I had to like go in there and speak at normal voices and we’d shoot the shit and the strip joints and everything like that. So I became that person. I also started writing for a magazine called on our backs, which was called entertainment for the adventurous lesbian. And that was pretty awesome. And so I was doing that and yeah.

And then what happened? So writing for on our backs. So then Fanny fatal was the nom plume for the woman that was one of the editors for on our backs. And she was doing a tour for about female ejaculation. She had done a book, no a video fatal video had done how to female ejaculate. And she was like I said, doing a tour to promote it. And the only place in Boston that would have her was not either of the feminist bookstores, cuz this was, this was 93.

Yeah. So we’re fast forward. No 92 92. So fast forwarding a little bit, but you know, and so neither of the feminist bookstores would have her because back then it was like, if you were, you know, I don’t wanna like pigeonhole or anything, but you know, lesbian, feminist and stuff like that. You were like, we don’t talk about sex. This is, I mean, I’ve lived through all this stuff. Right. And me personally, if people are wondering, oh you’re a big di you’re first of all, I hate titles. I like saying I’m trisexual cuz I’ll try anything sexual.

So I do, I do a lot around sex stuff. So I, like I said, I don’t like pigeonholing, like, oh if you’re this you’re that I also, this is a little sidetrack. I also don’t like public displays of affection personally. Yeah. Because if people look at you, they automatically pigeonhole you. So if I hold hands with a guy it’s like, oh you’re straight. If I hold hands with a woman. Oh you’re lesbian, you know? Sure. And, and that’s, and I don’t, I don’t don’t wanna be thought of like, oh, that’s who you are because you’re holding hands with that person. Right. To put you in a box.

Yeah, I, yeah. And I just don’t and even, you know, this isn’t with strangers. I mean that’s my own stuff, so that’s my own stuff. So I really just don’t like titles in that sense. And you know, you can say pansexual, whatever, whatever. But anyway, so, so anyway, so the only place that would have her speak in Boston was at the gay men’s bookstore. Interesting called glad day. And they, they were totally cool with it. Well, the next day, and this was on Columbus day, weekend 92, the next day she was presenting in the New York city Manhattan apartment of Dell Williams.

Who’s the woman who founded Eve’s garden, which is considered the first feminist sex toy store. Yeah. And it opened in 73 in Manhattan. So she presented there and it was a hands-on workshop, which was really hysterical and fun. Yeah. It was like, so she showed the video and it was like, okay, this is GPO and female ejaculation. And then she’s like, oh, you know, all right, who wants to, you know, they had the mirrors up and the speculums and everything. Okay. Who wants to see their GPO?

So this like cute little blonde girl said, oh, I’ll do that. So, you know, everybody’s like, you know, swarming around her. So she spreads, her leg, puts the speculum in, you turn it sideways. If you wanna see your G spot, as opposed to like how they do it, when you do an exam, which actually pushes it up. So you put it sideways. So the handle is on the side. Then you can like really see where the GPO like dips down anyway. So puts the speculum in. She looks and she’s got a cute little blonde GPO. Okay, fine. If you wonder where G-spot in, that’s a whole nother podcast.

So anyway, I’m like, okay, I’ll do this. So I go and I like shoved the thing in and the mirrors there and Deb sun do, who was the editor who was Fanny fatal that I didn’t figure out until that night she looks, she goes, wow, you’ve got a really big and meaty GS spot. And I look at her, I said, that’s cuz I’m a big and meaty girl. You know? So, so that was at, so at the end where this is all leading to like, you know, people are leaving and stuff like that. So we get shooting the shit. So this is Dell Williams, the founder of the oldest sex toy store and Deb sun do, who just had this shit to go down in Boston, you know, and stuff like this.

I said, you know what? We could use a women’s sex toy store in Boston. I could do that. I could do that. Clouds parted bolt of lightning came down. That was it. Wow. That was it. Wow. So I was staying with two lesbian friends of mine at their place. The ones that actually turned me onto on backs magazine. And I went there, I said, I’m gonna open up a woman’s sex toys store in Boston. They’re like, well, if anybody can do it, it’s you, my background, I grew up on top of my father’s furniture store. My two sisters are in retail management.

My grandfather was a troubleshoot for Montgomery ward. This is not a big deal for me to open up a store. Yeah. So I gave myself about a year and then I app at good vibrations in San Francisco in March of 93. And that was incredible. I mean, it was my life calling. I mean, it was just like, this is it. This is it. So whole, whole other stuff. I ended up opening November 93, the name. Oh yeah. So the, so the, well actually going back just a little again is October.

So Columbus day weekend when I drove down to New Jersey, cuz that’s where my family is. That’s where I grew up. I, I talked to my brother about it. So my brother and I are like always on the same wave, ranks, everything like that. He’s my advisor and just guide and everything. So I said, I’m thinking about doing this after my boss at Harvard retires and my boss at Harvard who shall be unnamed, but a very prominent person at Harvard who’s since retired.

He’s 94 and we adore each other still. Yes. Anyway, my brother said, if it’s such a good idea, somebody else is gonna beat you to it. And he goes, who’s life. Are we talking about here? So it got me thinking like he’s right. He’s right. So that I was like, I’m gonna give myself a year. Cuz in academia that’s works really well. It would be at the end of the summer, you know? So that’s when I decided to do it. And then, and you know, he’s like who, who are you gonna get your money from?

I hit up a friend of mine that was a former bartender in the combat zone. Somebody I’d worked with for a while doing catering and stuff. So he, he gave me $14,000 to start the business. And that was in 90. Well, that was 93, November 93. And then 2004, I grossed 1.6 million. Geez. So that was a pretty good proje, you know, trajectory for sure.

Damn straight. Yeah. So I opened up. Oh yeah. And so then I thought I thinking of the name of the store, that was a whole nother story, but yeah. Grand opening. So in 95 the internet was a little baby and I’m like, well I guess I better get grand opening.com. And so I have grand opening.com. So I own the store. I actually was opened in LA for two years in west Hollywood in oh three to oh five. And so I sold the store at the end of oh five.

It was 12 years. And it was like, when you own a business, well, I’ll tell you my one sentence that maybe if anybody was listening, can relate to and owning your own business. Okay. Ready? I miss my store tremendously, but nothing that had my signature on it.

Speaker 1 (14m 44s): I get it.

Speaker 2 (14m 45s): I bet get it. You do.

Speaker 1 (14m 46s): Cause there’s boy, I get it.

Speaker 2 (14m 48s): That’s

Speaker 1 (14m 49s): I so get it. I so

Speaker 2 (14m 50s): Get it. No idea. Unless you’ve been in those shoes. Oh, absolutely. So yeah. So I do miss my store tremendously, but I’m still, you know, obviously very much working in the industry and having yeah. So since I sold it, I didn’t have to live in Boston anymore. The below market rent apartment that I was spoiled with was going condo. So I had to move anyway. So in oh six, I moved out here in LA and I always like to say it’s because I really have an addiction I have to deal with. It’s called motorcycle riding and I’m pretty damned addicted to it. I got three bikes, but I only ride one at a time.

Speaker 1 (15m 23s): Well, that’s a good thing. That’s a good thing. Cuz I think trying to ride three at the same time would deal a little dangerous.

Speaker 2 (15m 28s): I think get a little tricky. It really can. So yeah. I kind of avoid doing that. So yeah. So that’s so I ride motorcycles. I’ve got a motorcycles, all painted with sex toys. It’s called the big vibe. That’s actually my license. Geez, big vibe. Interesting shadow seven 50 it’s seven 50 arrow for those keeping you 2004, keep it track, got a hundred, 2000 miles on it. I’ve had it since it was new. Wow. And then I’ve got another bike. Oh yeah. If you really wanna see something else that I do. Cause I do a lot of things. Just go to slay.

It com I actually right around is Santa Claus between Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I, I totally, I totally do the head to toe Santa thing, even with a Santa hat that fits over a helmet. I love

Speaker 1 (16m 15s): It.

Speaker 2 (16m 16s): I love it. Yeah. And then

Speaker 1 (16m 17s): You market those

Speaker 2 (16m 19s): Well. Yeah. Well I wanna market the whole program because I put unwrap toys in the back and I have a double wide milk crate. That’s that’s in the bottom of a felt Santas SAC. So you don’t see, but that’s what I bunch you down to the, the backseat and the lo track and I put unwrap toys and then I ride into the hood and just anonymously give them out to

Speaker 1 (16m 41s): Kids. Ah, that’s

Speaker 2 (16m 42s): Sweet. So

Speaker 1 (16m 43s): I’m really, that’s very

Speaker 2 (16m 44s): Sweet. Yeah. I’m really dedicated about doing that. Yeah. If you want fun, you can Google an article that was written in 2013. If you do LA times motorcycle, Santa it’ll come up about it and then play it forward. Dot com has a cute video anyway, back to sex and sex toys. Huh? So since, since, well, pretty much, oh five. I’ve still been working in the industry. I’ve worked for several companies since then. And right now I do a lot of writing for companies. I’ll do a ton of freelance. I do consulting when somebody’s like, oh I have I’ve invented an item.

All right. Let’s see what it is. Okay. So you invented a new cocking. Great. Have you checked what the competition is and what else is out there and stuff? So I do a lot of consulting. I don’t put anybody down because a lot of people have ideas and I don’t wanna be the one like, well, that’s a stupid idea. Cause I wouldn’t, I’m not that person, you know, if they do think they have a conquering, that’s really good that doesn’t exist. Well show let’s see what you have in mind. Sure. And then when we start talking about production cost, I know my shit.

I know my shit. And tons of people will tell me that. And I know it inside out is when they start seeing like production and MOQ, which is minimum order, quantity and price breaking and Mo making molds. I mean, that’s, you have to make a mold for everything that’s involved. And this is any consumer product. So it’s not just sex choice, but that get the meter goes higher and higher and higher people have no idea. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (18m 17s): They have an idea. They have an idea and they don’t think about what it’s gonna cost to invest in the idea,

Speaker 2 (18m 21s): Right. To make it. So then they’re like, well, I could sell my idea to a company that already exists and is making them doesn’t work in this business. Nope. The sex industry does not

Speaker 1 (18m 32s): Ask me if you have an I, I, people don’t buy ideas. They buy successful businesses. Well, Kim, I wanna congratulate you because you just set the record for the longest ever answer on adult site, broker talk. So

Speaker 2 (18m 46s): Excellent. I hope everyone found it compelling

Speaker 1 (18m 49s): And

Speaker 2 (18m 49s): Interesting and wanna hear more.

Speaker 1 (18m 52s): Well, I, so

Speaker 2 (18m 53s): Let’s go with the next question.

Speaker 1 (18m 55s): Okay. Hopefully school won’t be quite as long.

Speaker 2 (18m 59s): Okay.

Speaker 1 (18m 60s): What’s the most Nona you were great. So what’s the most incredible technology that’s in the adult toy world. Now

Speaker 2 (19m 7s): I would say it’s definitely the remote control and app control, which is there’s more and more toys that are doing that. And the pricing has come down, especially around remotes. Remotes used to be fucking crazy expensive, like in 95. I think there was a little bullet vibe about this size of the top of your thumb. Right? So pretty small that had two thin wires coming out. Well, you’d pull on the wires and it you’d kill it. Right. It was 250 fucking dollars for that.

And now you can get a remote control toy for like 25 30 bucks maybe. Sure. And they work and they don’t have those stinky wires sticking out of ’em. So the remote control stuff is fucking amazing. I mean, you get like evolved, make someone that, that you can inflate remote control. You can, you know, deflate and of course vibrating for sure. Rotation, all remote control. It’s just like amazing. And that’s within a room and then there’s other toys in manufacturers that make them that are app controlled too.

So, you know, you can get, you can have ’em both that way too. And then like, like the Kru K I I R O O toys.

Speaker 1 (20m 19s): Yes. Yeah. I know those guys.

Speaker 2 (20m 20s): Right. And love end. Right. So they that’s, they’re really popular with the camming community. Yes. Because you can, you know, pass along the information to your client and they can control it and woo. You know, everybody makes money on that one. So yeah. Virtual

Speaker 1 (20m 35s): Sucks. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20m 37s): That’s, that’s so amazing. And then something that’s really intrigued me that I’ve seen, you know, cuz I get all the new toys to review and everything. So I kind know what’s out, out there, the, the qu quality and quantity to a, a certain extent of the guy toys that are out now, the masturbates that suck and vibrate and tug and

Speaker 1 (21m 2s): Ah, do tell

Speaker 2 (21m 3s): Stroke, oh my, they give me fucking penis envy. Let me tell you. I’m like, Jesus, I wish I had something stuff in this. This looks fucking awesome. Like I just got one, there’s a company, Chinese company. I don’t know how much they’re infiltrating the us. That’s a whole nother, that’s a whole nother thing. Tracy’s dog. So it’s like, it’s kind of a little clumsy shaped, I mean, but you know, whatever, but it just it’s you put your junk in it and it’s got, you know, the TPR sleeve and you put it in and it, it like massages and sucks.

Your Dick. I’m like, man, I would love this. There’s

Speaker 1 (21m 46s): Have you ever, do you ever, do you ever bring guys in to help you with your reviews

Speaker 2 (21m 50s): Every once in a while? You know, of course everybody wants to be that guy, but, but it’s

Speaker 1 (21m 56s): Like, no, no, but no, but I, I was just, I was just kind of thinking to truly review a male sex toy don’t you have to have,

Speaker 2 (22m 5s): Have a Dick gift. Sure. Yeah. Well, I, I have a lot of dicks. They just don’t have nerve endings.

Speaker 1 (22m 12s): Well, I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22m 17s): So yeah. I mean, you know, yeah. I do have, do have some guy testers, but it’s so funny cuz I mean, I take testing toys pretty seriously. Of course, in the sense that like I’m like, all right, this is a good shape, you know? Oh yeah, this is a good one, you know? And, and I know what I like and blah, blah, blah and stuff. And so guys, I they’re, I, you know, I haven’t, I know there’s plenty of ’em out there, but I haven’t met a guy that takes testing sex toys as seriously as I do.


Speaker 1 (22m 48s): Like felt great.

Speaker 2 (22m 50s): They’re like, yeah, felt great. Now fuck me. You know, it’s like, no, I wanna test the product. How do you like it? It’s it’s OK. Yeah. No, my Dick it’s like, no, I wanted, you know, no, just like this. So

Speaker 1 (23m 4s): I think you need to find some new testers. So if anyone’s, if anyone’s listening in the Los Angeles area, who’s looking to be a male sex toy tester, please contact Kims on social media.

Speaker 2 (23m 16s): And don’t like, think that I’m gonna fucking put out because your Dick is gonna go into some gizmo. All, I love

Speaker 1 (23m 24s): It. What’s the most amazing thing you’ve invented.

Speaker 2 (23m 30s): Oh gosh, let me think. Well, I was, I brought a product to market and this was in 2015. I think it was called bubble love. And it was an underwater, basically an underwater jet that would pull air down on a tube. And so it would shoot. So yeah, everybody’s thinking of jacuzzi, but any of us with Volvos, you go up against a jacuzzi jet and it can be kind of harsh, you know? Yeah. I like it, but it can be like, wow.

You know, especially when you start really digging into the naughty bits, you know, and not just like trying to go on on outer laborer or something like that. So it was bubble love. So it would be a really strong sensation, but it was combined with bubbles. It was pretty damn amazing. And it was engineered. And how I found that inventor of that was through a friend that met that, met him at a wedding and he said, and he was a guest. And he’s like, yeah, somebody I’ve, he, he was actually the money guy behind it.

He’s like, yeah, I’ve got a sex toy. I have no idea how to get it out in the industry. My friend’s like, have I got the person for you? So I worked with a lot of it with the packaging and all that and everything. And then when we released it, I had all my friends in the business say, you didn’t tell me about this. I’m like exactly. You know, that’s how I roll. So anyway, what happened sadly incredibly sadly, was that the guy who engineered it did not engineer. Okay. Listen to this people, if you wanna invent a product, did not engineer the lithium ion battery on inside this sealed silicone casing to last more than a year.

Oops. Right. Because you have to assume that once you and this is from date of manufacturer, okay. So it’s gonna take, you know, three like figure three months for manufacturer on the water to the us. So three months, time is tick nine months left, goes to a distributor, sits on a shelf, goes to a retailer, sits on a shelf, the product end up failing. Oh no. Once it lost its charge, you could not recharge it.

Oh shit. So, and that was because he didn’t engineer the battery to last long enough for a three year cycle of sitting on the shelf. He should

Speaker 1 (25m 58s): Have talked to Elon Musk.

Speaker 2 (25m 60s): He fucking should have talked to me. I know Elon Musk. I know. Huh. So for sure. So that was a thing. And so when I, cuz I was brand manager, I was like running the show and doing the trainings and everything like this. And so I started getting him back and we warrantied it for, it was at least a year warranty and I’m getting him back. I’m like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what? It’s what you know. And when they started, what a

Speaker 1 (26m 23s): Disaster

Speaker 2 (26m 24s): It’s like, are you fucking kidding? He’s like, well I engineered to last a year. I’m like, you didn’t fucking ask me, you know, I could have told you this day one, it’s gotta be a three year engineering for the battery at least. So that product failed. And so that’s, that was, I mean that I was really a hundred million percent behind that product. Sure. And it didn’t work.

Speaker 1 (26m 48s): That’s a, that’s a bummer.

Speaker 2 (26m 50s): So that’s a total bummer. So yeah, there’s a, there’s another product that I’m behind that I had seen pop up somewhere in my social media or something called the water slide and that’s pretty cool. So I’m like, I don’t know about this product. So I got in touch with them and I’m like, I can make your product bigger in this industry and what it is. It’s really simple. It’s poly tying and it’s kind of like a stretched out Z shape and you attach it to a, a outward facing bathtub faucet with just a ribbon and then it shoots the water out.

So girls and Volvo owners out there, how do we get off? Usually the first time you scrunch under the water, the faucet and the bathtub. So this, you don’t have to scrunch

Speaker 1 (27m 37s): Never heard that. I’ve never heard that before. See I learned something

Speaker 2 (27m 42s): Good. So water slides. So I still work with them and everything, but I got them into with distributors and you know, I got, ’em much more into the network of adult stores. So it’s doing really well. I’m really happy about it. And you know, cuz I feel like I, I, you know, I’m a part of it and the woman that invented it. She’s awesome. I love her to pieces, Maureen Pollock. She’s great. And it’s just a really great product and I really believe in ’em you know, so that’s some, you know, company I worked with as well.

Speaker 1 (28m 11s): So what is your favorite lubricant?

Speaker 2 (28m 14s): My favorite lubricant. It’s more of a style than just the type or just the company. I love hybrid lubricants. Okay. I know one of the questions is why do I fucking hate silicone lube?

Speaker 1 (28m 27s): Wait, let me ask it. Why do you fucking hate silicone lube? That wasn’t the exact words, but go ahead.

Speaker 2 (28m 32s): I’m gonna just drop the FBO in that one because it’s that’s podcast, you know? Okay. Yes. So there’s, there’s simplicity for simplicity sake. There’s three kinds of lube water based lube, silicone lube and hybrid. So water based lube. I love water lube cuz it’s easy to wash off for me. That’s the biggest key, right? Easy to wash off. So water BA my body’s water based. So it does really well with my body. Very good. I don’t have any issues with any ingredient, except I hate that warming and cooling stuff.

I hate that stuff, but anyway, that’s my personal thing. Okay. Why I fucking hate silicone lubricant. You cannot wash that off. It’s like oil. Hmm. It’s like oil. So you can have it all over your junk and everything like that. What I hate about it when it’s on your fucking hands, because then it’s like all over the toys, it’s all over the light switches. It’s all over everything. I hate Silicon loop. A lot of people love it because you don’t have to keep adding lubricant or adding water with a water based loop.

Sure. I get that. But I hate it because it’s, I just, I even hate opening the bottles because it’s like it gets on the bottle, you know, and just hates Hybrid on the other hand has the qualities of both. So it’s a hybrid. Like we have, you know, electric and gas hybrid cars. So it’s, it’s got the properties of a water based lube, but it lasts longer than a typical water based lube because it does have usually little silicone in it too, but not like a pure silicone lube.

So hybrid lube, it works great with any of the toys. Oh, I’ll just jump into this. Since we have active listeners and you do wanna learn something. Yes. Okay. It’s been thought that do not. And it’ll say this on packages and everything do not use a silicone based lube with silicone toys. All right. Well that goes, let’s go to the way back machine to 1997, when there were only a like two or three sex toy manufacturers and one of ’em in particular VIX and creations.

If you used a silicone lubricant with a Vixen creations toy, it would change the surface of the toy and make it sticky. Like, oh, I’ll just wash my toy. Oh no, it changed it chemically. You could not wash. So it would like remain sticky.

Speaker 1 (31m 3s): Oh it kind of reminds me of my BMW door handles here. The heat

Speaker 2 (31m 7s): That sure could be. So that’s when that started. Oh, don’t you Silicon lube with silicone toys. Well,

Speaker 1 (31m 14s): But, but I’ve never put silicone lube on it just to let you

Speaker 2 (31m 16s): Know. Probably not because then you won’t be able, just won’t be able to get in your car. Don’t do that. That’s like don’t use armor roll on the surface of your tire. That will fuck up your tires. Use it only outside. So it looks good in pictures. That’s it. There you go. Or don’t put it on your seat of your car because you’re gonna like, feel like you’re in, ameba in your car seat. All right. So yeah, so that’s when that started in 97. Okay. So a lot of things have changed if you’re gonna ha try silicone loop with silicone toy, just put like two or three drops of the silicone loop on a surface of your sex toy.

Silicone sex toy can be any kind, silicone put it on a space where you’re not gonna be using it. So you’re not gonna use like the bottom of the base. You know, you’re not gonna use any toy will have a surface on it that you will not be using that. So you put like two or three drops there and leave it overnight right there. And then in the morning, wipe it off. And if you can wipe it off and it’s nice and clean, no problem using that lube with a toy, if it sticky, eh, do not use that lubricant with, with that toy.

Yeah. So yeah. So that’s, that’s kind of the trick with that, but yeah. So that’s why I like hybrid lubes. It’s creamy. It’s excellent for making it look like fake come when you wanna do like come shots and stuff. It’s great. Wicked makes a really good one. Simply simply hybrid their whole simply. Line’s really nice. Yeah. There’s a whole bunch of companies that make a hybrid lube. So those, those are my favorite just cuz it’s easy to wash off. That’s it? And it works with toys.

Speaker 1 (32m 56s): How many jobs have you had in your, in your life? She laughed.

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): I laugh hysterically. Cause people are like, you’ve done that too. I’ve worked in the technical library for Duracell their technical library before like the internet. It was Lexus nexus searches. So yeah. Duracell and for GAF corporation, let’s see I’ve ocean county public library worked there. I’ve worked. I’ve probably had at least 30 different jobs.

Yeah. Building superintendent, house painting interior. I used to race hydroplanes. Not that in board hydroplanes. Not that that was a job, but it was definitely an adventure. That was when I was a teenager. Okay. I was chairman of the division of the new England division of the United States fencing association. So I was competitive fencer for a number of years. Oh wow. Yeah. Just totally cool. I’ve been vice president of my motorcycle club.

Let’s see. And jobs. I mean, I’ve worked for several sex toy companies, pipe, dream products, top go impulse, novelties, a small company channel one releasing. Let’s see, I worked for a lubricant company that shall go unnamed. Well

Speaker 1 (34m 24s): They must make, they must make Silicon lubes. Then

Speaker 2 (34m 27s): It’s a major one. Yeah, of course they do. Yeah. Let’s see. I,

Speaker 1 (34m 33s): You ever tell, did you ever tell hate their product?

Speaker 2 (34m 36s): Well, that one people always knew that I don’t like silicone lube. Fortunately they made several different kinds, so ah, okay. You know, which is good. Yeah. But so I could, I can, I could never promote. I only promote things I believe in and things I use, you know, honest to Pete because I, I don’t wanna bullshit people. I, I don’t that’s I have never bullshit people my whole life I used to sell brass at Frederick’s yeah. I just threw that in because I love Fredericks and Hollywood brass and they’re great.

It’s unfortunately they’re not there. Yeah. But yeah, so that’s, that’s a big part. So like they, yeah, but if somebody said, oh we have Silicon lube, you wanna promote? I’d be like, no, I’ll just write about it. But I won’t. I can’t, I that’s it now that so point

Speaker 1 (35m 23s): You won’t write real positively about

Speaker 2 (35m 25s): It. No, I, when I review a Silicon, it’s more like I kind of write about the attributes of it. Hmm. I won’t write like I fucking hate Silicon lubricant.

Speaker 1 (35m 38s): You don’t say that in there, huh?

Speaker 2 (35m 40s): No, no, no. The weird thing, the weird thing is when I get a flavored lubricant that I don’t like flavored lubricant, you know what? This is something with lubricants. Okay. Why, how come? Well, actually there is one company that makes it, but they don’t make pussy flavored lubricant. And I know there’s not just one taste. Trust me on that. But I had brought that up with a lubricant manufacturer and they look at like what? And it actually, what made me think about it was that I had gotten a question cuz I get questions all the time from a guy who said my wife went through menopause and her taste had changed.

Speaker 1 (36m 19s): Interesting.

Speaker 2 (36m 20s): Which I totally get. Cuz it’s all hormonal. Yeah. And he goes, and I miss that taste. He goes, it was just so beautiful. And, and I thought, oh cuz you know, I’m such an empath. And it was, I was like, oh I bet that’s I bet that, you know, that’s sad. And I thought, wouldn’t it be great if there was a lubricant that would taste like, you know, there would probably be like 10 different tastes I think. But whenever I bring that up, people are like, that’s weird. I’m like, no it’s not weird and stuff. I thought about making, okay, here’s a good one.

It’s out there already. But I thought we should make a flavored anal and then the, the tagline could be so your asshole don’t taste like shit

Speaker 1 (37m 3s): Now that’s good.

Speaker 2 (37m 4s): Isn’t that a good one? I know. I’ve got a lot of

Speaker 1 (37m 7s): Those. I love a lot of those. I love

Speaker 2 (37m 8s): It. That would be a good one. All what’s another question. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 15s): What is the, why do you crack me up? What does the, what does the

Speaker 2 (37m 19s): Future have?

Speaker 1 (37m 21s): What does the future hold for you?

Speaker 2 (37m 24s): I will tell you. And I will tell everybody that listens to your podcast.

Speaker 1 (37m 29s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (37m 30s): All right. You’re ready.

Speaker 1 (37m 33s): I was ready when I asked the question,

Speaker 2 (37m 34s): I was gonna say, I’m gonna get naked for you right now. It’s a good one. So if you can’t tell you my dear, as well as your dear listeners, I have a crazy passion for sex and all things

Speaker 1 (37m 53s): I couldn’t tell. I couldn’t

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): Tell. I know I try to put a lid on it every once in a while.

Speaker 1 (37m 57s): You really do. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37m 59s): And I just do a lot of things in sex. I’m also drummer please. 64 years old, which is like really fucking weird.

Speaker 1 (38m 9s): But anyway, join the club.

Speaker 2 (38m 11s): Oh, it’s so weird.

Speaker 1 (38m 12s): We’re the same age. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): There you go. Huh? I know. So, and I’m funny. Okay. I know I’m to a whole hour and a half show on sex toys and it’s also edutainment. So it’s got like a whole lot of other information like BDSM and anal sex and GPO. And so the title of the show is you ready for it? I am, am. It’s called. You wanna put that? Where I came up with the title? It’s a good one. So what I wanna do because there is no one in this market right now is be that funny old lady that talks frankly, and honestly, and hysterically about sex.

Speaker 1 (38m 55s): I think it would go great.

Speaker 2 (38m 56s): I think so too. So that’s, you’re

Speaker 1 (38m 58s): Talking, we’re talking about standup, right?

Speaker 2 (38m 60s): Stand up, stand up. Yeah. Stand up. And just really, you know, being that outrageous older woman that talks about all sorts of things, including fucking young men. Like not fucking young man, but fucking young man. Yes. Because they shoot off like Geers, you know, you get somebody who’s 64 and it’s like,

Speaker 1 (39m 26s): No comment.

Speaker 2 (39m 28s): I’ll tell you, you get these young guys and like you have to duck it or else, you know, you’ll get hit in the, you know, it’s like that. Wow. That’s that on the ceiling?

Speaker 1 (39m 35s): Huh? Or anything

Speaker 2 (39m 37s): I’ll tell you, you’re like,

Speaker 1 (39m 38s): Woo. You’ll have to, you’ll have to let me know when you start this and that will be a whole other podcast

Speaker 2 (39m 44s): It’s gonna be so yeah. So that’s the, you know, and I know that a lot of it is over social media now, but I really love performing in front of live audiences. Cause get so much more feel out of it. So yeah. So stay tuned on that. Cause I’m, I’m doing a lot,

Speaker 1 (39m 58s): I mean, coming to a comedy, coming to a comedy club near you.

Speaker 2 (40m 2s): Oh no, I know. Yeah. And it’s long, you know, it’s kind of cuz I have performed at comedy clubs, but they have to know what I’m gonna be presenting. So if you’re like doing 10 minutes or you know, 15 minutes at a place, I don’t wanna start cracking out DDoS and vibrators and shit like that because that can like really throw people off. And especially like in this politically correct world, you know, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna trigger people. I mean, that’s what I, I don’t, that’s not my Mo on any of this, you know? Sure, sure. So the thing is it would be like my own doing, doing my show on a bigger scale, you know, cuz then people will know that’s what it’s about.

You know, it’s like the world of sex toys and all this stuff like this, but yeah. And crack ’em out. And I mean, that’s the thing is when I do my shows is I’ll have like a table with about 30 different things on it, but I don’t necessarily talk about all of them, but it’s just like, it’s all improv. I could never study a script and it just depends on like where I wanna go with it. And then of course I know like a lot of my beats with a lot of the products and things like that, but it’s, it’s all improv. So it depends on what the audience feedback is, what they wanna learn, what, you know, what tangent I go off on, you know?

And just,

Speaker 1 (41m 12s): I can’t imagine a tangent me

Speaker 2 (41m 16s): To entertain. No. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41m 18s): That’s not, that’s not even possible.

Speaker 2 (41m 20s): No, it’s not my wheelhouse. So no. So that’s, that’s what’s that’s I posted in the future. Should

Speaker 1 (41m 27s): You should do it at, at some of the adult at some of the adult shows. I think I’d be great.

Speaker 2 (41m 32s): Yeah. Yeah. I mean I’ve, MCed the O awards for a number years, so that’s been good. And

Speaker 1 (41m 37s): That wasn’t a fun when I said, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (41m 39s): Oh, oh no. So that was improv. And it was so funny cuz I love doing anatomy also. And I’ve got the Volvo puppet, the onerous Volvo puppet, which my pal Dory lays. Awesome. It’s great. It’s it’s a hand puppet. It it’s I’ve used it in tons of workshops. It’s really great. So I kind of, where was one? I forget what year I was hosting it. I think it was actually 2020 right before the shutdown and stuff. Of course. And so I do the anatomy, you know, with the pussy puppet and then I crack out a DDA with a section cup and I’m like, this is a Dick. And then I just tossed it over my shoulder and the fucking thing, I was twirling the in the air and then slams right down on the suction cup base.


Speaker 1 (42m 17s): I love it.

Speaker 2 (42m 17s): So everybody thought I practiced that I’m like

Speaker 1 (42m 22s): That

Speaker 2 (42m 25s): Hysterical. I’m just the didn’t like how it landed and stuff. It was like, oh my God, I’ve got it on video. It’s pretty funny. So yeah. So it’s just so that’s, that’s what I wanna do is just really, you know, out there honest stuff and stuff. So, so yeah, so it’s a matter of just kind of getting it out there and yeah. Doing the media thing a lot more and the social media thing obviously sounds like fun. Stay tuned. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42m 51s): Let me know. Let me know.

Speaker 2 (42m 53s): I will, as a matter of fact,

Speaker 1 (42m 55s): So who’s the most famous person you’ve ever trained motorcycle riding.

Speaker 2 (43m 0s): Okay. For all of you, sons of anarchy fans out there, and I know there’s a few of you. I trained rat boy. Oh. So he was on the third season and went all the way through the eighth. And what, what if you,

Speaker 1 (43m 14s): If you say, say so, never seen it. So

Speaker 2 (43m 17s): As I know, it’s true. It’s true. Nico, Nico, Tara, great, wonderful sweetheart of a guy. And he was working as a waiter, which is what you do before you break into acting here in LA. Yes. And he was working as a waiter and he got on the show and Kurt Sutter had said, oh, it’s a show about motorcycles. If you learn how to ride, we will pay for it for instruction. You’ll get written in the show a lot more. So he had taken the safety course, which is what I always recommend. And then he asked around where he worked like, do you know anybody who does motorcycle coaching?

And this guy said, yeah, Kim does. So they co connected us. So I trained him like more, it was funny cuz it’s really, it’s a lot like horseback riding. Like they make it look so easy on TV, but it’s really, there’s, there’s like five things you have to do when, before you take off on a motorcycle, you know, and you don’t think of these things. Like a lot of times you don’t even think of them when you’re a rider, but I had to break it down and we actually did drills of getting on your bike fast and getting off your bike fast.

Sure. Because that’s what they do on TV and stuff. So we did that of course. And we also did close riding, which I don’t train on, but that’s what they do in TV. So it was, it was so he would feel not spooked if, you know, I pulled up like two feet away from him, you know, I would never recommend doing that, like training a person, but this was for the TV thing. So he’s a great rider and stuff we haven’t ridden in a while, but he’s up for it anytime. Very cool. So, so yeah, so that was great. And, and we would go to Harley dealers and people were like, wait aren’t you on sunset?

And he’s like, yeah, like he’s so chill. Like yeah, yeah. You know and stuff. So yeah. He’s gotten a lot of mileage out there. He’s in the movie now. Cause, cause I think that was his, well, I know that was his groundbreaking break to be an actor. So he’s pretty regularly doing gigs and movies in the latest is the mark Walberg film called father St. So he’s in there, he’s in the trailer and he’s like one like that gives him advice and he’s all kind of dark and stuff. So yeah. It’s like, yeah, go Nico.

So yeah. It’s cool. He’s a great guy.

Speaker 1 (45m 23s): Very, very cool. Yeah. Well remind people where to find you on social media,

Speaker 2 (45m 28s): Everywhere. Kim HES. I RS, I’m working on TikTok. That’s the only one I have. I haven’t I’ve got it. No

Speaker 1 (45m 35s): TikTok.

Speaker 2 (45m 36s): Well, it’s got, well the thing, because I wanna do it. So I registered for it and then they’re like, okay, what’s your password? And I put in my password, it’s like, that’s not your password. And it’s like, that’s my fucking password. But so it’s the backend stuff that I have to straighten out. And you can’t talk to anybody who’s there. Yes, of course. So, and you know, that’s the old school, you know, God forbid. And then yeah. So they’re like, well you could be Kim airs one. It’s like, no, I am Kim heirs. I’m not the impersonator of, so I gotta deal with that.

But I’m on, oh God, I’m Patreon. Only fans. It’s just sex ed. I don’t show my junk. Sorry guys. Just don’t do that. Let’s see YouTube. Kim’s you got that? Twitter, Instagram, all Kim airs. What else is there? There’s a few of them. Wait, let me, oh yeah. I’m on cameo, which has been a real food. I go as naughty grandma. I record really funny videos from people on cameo.

Another one that’s pretty, it’s interesting is mentor do so mentor.cam. I do one to one sessions with people. Very good. So that’s, that’s a really good one. Cuz then people can really ask me stuff and, and I can show them toys or I can talk to them and stuff. I am not a therapist. So I make that really clear. I’m not a therapist, but let me tell you, I know more than like probably fucking 90% of the sex therapists that are out there. Sure. And I experience it. I walk the walk and talk the talk.

It’s not like I’ve read it from a book. Okay. So there’s a lot to be said about personal experience when it comes to this stuff too. And just people that I’ve worked with. I mean, it’s pretty amazing. That’s you? Me? I also have a podcast too. It’s called sex chat with Kim HES that I’ve got guests and also my own stuff and, and just all sorts. I take questions from listeners. You can get me at Kim HES sex chat. So it has two S’s in the middle Kim air sex chat, gmail.com. And that all get goes straight to me.

And so I answer questions from that and yeah. And then grand opening.com. You’ll see my lovely face on it. Holding a bouquet of sex toys. Fabulous. That’s a good fun place. And I’ll throw in a little a lit just cause I love you. Aw. I am gonna put in a code, a discount code for any of your listeners. What, what would you suggest? What would be a good word?

Speaker 3 (48m 9s): Bruce. Bruce is good.

Speaker 2 (48m 12s): Okay. BR Bruce is good. Would be a good code. So I’ll, I’ll, I’ll enter that in tonight actually. So at check out, if you enter the word Bruce or the name, Bruce, you’ll get a discount from grand opening.com and that’ll just be, let’s see. So put that through the end of

Speaker 1 (48m 34s): No, well, I should, I should tell you and everybody that we’re recording this April 26th, but it’s not gonna run until

Speaker 3 (48m 41s): August. So

Speaker 2 (48m 43s): August you’re ahead of the game. I’ll just, you know what?

Speaker 1 (48m 46s): I got so many, I got such a backlog of interviews. My apologies.

Speaker 2 (48m 51s): Oh, that’s just bump. ’em put me

Speaker 3 (48m 53s): Up

Speaker 1 (48m 53s): For yeah. For you.

Speaker 2 (48m 54s): Absolutely. No, what I’ll do is I won’t let it expire because that’s video podcast as I can just live out there and I don’t think I absolutely I’ll put a coupon in there for Bruce. So just put Bruce in it, check out and you’ll get a little discount there and we love discounts. So yeah.

Speaker 1 (49m 12s): That’s really,

Speaker 2 (49m 13s): Yes we do. Lucky listeners.

Speaker 3 (49m 15s): I do appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (49m 15s): Excellent.

Speaker 1 (49m 16s): Well, Hey Kim.

Speaker 2 (49m 17s): Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (49m 18s): I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adult site broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon.

Speaker 2 (49m 25s): Absolutely. And meet I R L

Speaker 1 (49m 29s): My broker tip today has to do with what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, this will be the first in a multi-part series. First, make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic’s expensive. Whether it’s search engine, traffic, review, site, traffic, or affiliate traffic, you paid a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is you want your visitors to do in the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay in north America.

Most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world credit cards, aren’t used nearly as much in Europe. For instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from in Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing countries. Many people pay by mobile, do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions you get. Most of your traffic from it will make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy, but since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t.

If you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this is to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate. People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by fairly large companies where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user, you poke around for what seems like forever to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out.

Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kinds of people who will be visiting your site next, make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer, isn’t good. You won’t make money. It’s plain and simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you to get more information, then make the offer attractive and easy to understand. If you’re selling something, make buying easy, show them an easy way to buy and then leave, help them by making suggestions on what to buy.

amazon.com is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this. If you can, don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to do. It’s not that hard. Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process, like a human being, whatever you do, don’t turn that over to your designer.

Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is. You’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Andra of webmaster access.
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Kim Airs. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of adult site broker, and welcome to adult site broker talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry. And we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week. we’ll be speaking with Michael Ramos of ASN Entertainment.

ASB cash, the affiliate program for adult site broker would like to announce we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts.

That’s right now, when you refer sellers or buyers to us at adult site broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life, you can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage check out ASBcash.com for more details, and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer a network of 22 growing affiliate sites. These include adult and affiliate review sites and various top lists. The network has grown in traffic and income over time. This is due to the quality of the network’s SEO and other optimization. The network brings in large amounts of signups through pay per sale and revenue share programs. There are also many two-tier affiliate signups generating income, monthly.

The best paying affiliate program accounts are included in the sale. So the buyer won’t have to change all the tracking. The seller will be available to the buyer with some ideas on how to further generate extra revenue, that he didn’t have a chance to implement himself and to train the new owner on the operation of the sites. Everything is there to get things ready for the new owner to come in and make a lot more money than is currently being made. Since the current owner has moved on to other ventures, only $474,000.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult site, broker talk is Michael Ramos, CEO, and founder of ASN entertainment. Michael, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 25s): Bruce, it’s a pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 1 (2m 28s): Hey, it’s great to have you now Michael started the magazine in 2011, which was the first of its kind in the lifestyle. They began with a vision and one website and ASN lifestyle magazine and have since grown ASN entertainment into a successful and versatile company. Michael came from the hospitality sector as a GM, as well as a systems administrator out of west Palm beach, Florida. People always ask what ASM stands for and the answer is simple. It stands for adult social network.

That’s simple. It stands for all of us. Now their focus is to be the leader in providing the lifestyle community, the tools and the information needed to navigate all that the crazy lifestyle world holds. So Michael, tell me where you’re based and where are most of your readers?

Speaker 2 (3m 18s): Well, we’re based in Orlando, Florida, the sunshine state, our reader base actually comes from all over the world. The magazine is global magazine.

Speaker 1 (3m 28s): So did it pretty much start out domestic and then branch out from there?

Speaker 2 (3m 32s): Correct, Bruce. We started probably I think with less than a hundred readers when we started. Hmm. And that was back in 2018 when we got the magazine actually up and running to where it was, it was good to go out, but now we’re celebrating our fourth year and we have a reach of over 3 million, 3 million people globally. Wow.

Speaker 1 (3m 54s): Wow. So what do you attribute all the growth to

Speaker 2 (3m 57s): The magazine’s free? I mean, it’s that, it’s the fact that we have really good contributors that, that are in the magazine each month.

Speaker 1 (4m 5s): Okay. Now you also have an online edition talk a little bit about the, the difference between the two and you know, how, how the online versions going.

Speaker 2 (4m 21s): Well, our distribution is only online. We, we, we never got into the print game just because, oh, okay. We, we, we vary in the page count each month, which gives us the flexibility to have either, you know, we could fit a ton of content into, into the space versus being constrained by a printer. That’s only gonna limit us to print X amount pages each month. Sure, sure. So with, with that said, you know, it’s the digital online’s been very successful. The magazine itself is almost, it gives you the, the feel, it gives you everything, but the smell of a real magazine, cause you have the, the, the flip, you have the, the sound of the pages flipping, it gives you all that.

Speaker 1 (5m 0s): Right. And, and you know, in, in this day and age let’s face it pretty much everything’s going digital, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (5m 7s): Correct. I mean, even Playboy after all these years has finally gone completely digital with their publication.

Speaker 1 (5m 13s): Yeah. That was kind of necessitated, I think, by money. So, so how did ASN get started and, and what was the goal at that time

Speaker 2 (5m 26s): Originally when ASN started and hence where the acronym ASN stands for adult social network was we tried to produce a website like SDC SLS back in the day. Okay. And that we were trying to find our niche into this market space. And we were hit with brick walls, a lot of resistance and stuff like that. People didn’t want another dating website or swinger’s website. So after spending lots of money and, and we sat there at the dinner table one night and said, look, you know what, there’s no media company or exposure that’s happening in the lifestyle.

Why don’t we be that source? And the light opened off in the head, you know, and the Jew and me, which I’m Jewish said, let’s produce this.

Speaker 1 (6m 9s): Likewise.

Speaker 2 (6m 10s): And that’s where it’s, that’s where it was born. We became, we, we hit that vacuum. Someone had made the example that there was a vacuum and we were able to suck into it when we got the lifestyle. Because originally when we were told that no one was gonna read the magazine, right. No one was gonna wanna be in the magazine. And we’re now in, like I said, our fourth year and I have probably over a year and a half waiting list on, on the cover. Wow. So it’s, you know, it’s, it’s been very successful. We’re very proud of what we’re doing. We’re very humble.

Speaker 1 (6m 39s): You know, you said you got a lot of resistance. Talk, talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (6m 44s): Well, the resistance came from within the lifestyle itself, being in the, in the lifestyle for, we were 15 years when I decided this was something that we were gonna do. I went to what I thought was the top echelon of the lifestyle. Okay. And gave them this idea of what I wanted to do. And some of the people were very supportive and, and said, you know, we got your back, we’ll support you. And some of those people were actually in the magazine, but then there were some people that said, no, it’s not gonna work. No one’s gonna wanna be in it. And it’s just, you’re wasting your time and you’re wasting your money.

Hmm. And I think the reason they said that is because if I didn’t go through with it, they would’ve came around and done it because it’s, it’s a, it’s a success.

Speaker 1 (7m 23s): Oh, sure, sure. It’s a great idea. But, but you also said that you got resistance to starting another social network, you know, you mentioned SDC. Correct. Was that, I mean, tell me about that part.

Speaker 2 (7m 38s): That, that, that’s actually kind of funny, cuz everything comes, comes to fruit nutrition, the same people that were saying, you know, you know, we don’t want you doing this because 15 years ago and, and probably still true to today, the lifestyle, they tried to keep everybody in their box. So if you, if you’re member of this site, will, we don’t want you on this site. You know, you can’t do this. You gotta go to our parties, blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, so that was, that was the resistance. But the funny thing is, is that resistance then became my advertisers.

So now the people that were fighting me are now paying me. I love it. It’s it’s, you know, and SDC, for example, we’ve been in a relationship with them since 2019 and they’re actually my tele sponsor of our award show this year. Hmm. So you could just see how far we’ve come, you know, from being not wanting to talk to one another to actually working, working together,

Speaker 1 (8m 31s): That’s a little hard to understand because let’s face it. You guys like, like the entire adult industry get a lot of noise from the outside, but I think people in the lifestyle even get more noise because let’s face it. And you know, the, the, the preconceived notion is you’ve got a, you’ve got a man and you’ve got a woman and that’s a relationship. And the lifestyle really deviates from that. Not in a negative way, but I mean, it, it, it, it’s different than the, the preconceived notion, the religious norms, whatever you wanna call it.

Right. And here you wanted to start another social network that had to do with the lifestyle. So tell, maybe you can fill me in a little bit more since I’m not in the lifestyle. Maybe you can fill me in a little bit more about how the people are in that respect to, I don’t know, to, to why are they trying to put everybody in a box?

Speaker 2 (9m 32s): Well, I think what’s happened since that the stigma or, or the things where they were wanting to keep everybody in the box. I think what the magazine did was open up that box, it opened up and say, Hey, you know, this is who we are. We’re proud of what we are. You know, everyone has the outside thing swinging necessarily means, you know, everyone’s going and having an orgy. Yeah. That’s not necessarily the case. I mean, Sweden itself has so many levels of, of what a swinger is. Sure. You could be a swinger and actually not have sex with anybody. You’re just part of a group that, that likes to get together and, and hang out.

Or you could, like we did is we formed a niche with a couple couples that we’ve grown to very fond of over the years. And that’s kind of where we play. We don’t go outside of that group. Okay. But then you, you know, you have the other, the younger generation of swingers that do this whole mass, you know, you know, everyone’s gonna have sex with everybody and, and that’s okay. But as far as the, the stigma about maybe what the outside was seeing, I think that the magazine has helped reshape that because of the, the contributors.

Like I said, that we have, we have some of the best sexologists and therapists in the country that are in the magazine as contributors case in point, our, our may cover is therapists out of central Texas from a, a company, well known therapist company called evolve, your intimacy. Yeah. So having that, we’re able to educate cuz our magazine rides that line right now where I think a lot of our readership is people wanting to know what the lifestyle’s about. So we’re able to educate that part of it and whether they wanna play or just get an understanding of what it is because what they see in the movies and what is reality is, is total opposites.

So I think that’s where the magazine comes in line and helps in creates the, the, the, the group versus the separation.

Speaker 1 (11m 27s): But why didn’t they want another social network? I mean that, I mean, that’s the that’s well,

Speaker 2 (11m 31s): You,

Speaker 1 (11m 32s): It’s hard. That’s the part that hard, that’s hard to understand where you said, well, you, you know, you go to these parties and no, you go to these parties. No, you go to the site, you go to the site. Why is that?

Speaker 2 (11m 43s): Because it comes down to dollars. It comes down to what people are paying. And, and instead of realizing that the lifestyle has so much of a market that everybody can play in the same lake, they feared that, that by having someone that belongs to their site to another site and go to those parties, that they were now gonna lose a customer at the end of the day, that’s, that’s what it is a dollar.

Speaker 1 (12m 8s): And so it was competition.

Speaker 2 (12m 10s): Of course, absolutely. Ah, of course. And the top survived and, and the, the week fell. Yes. But yes, you look now in 2022, there’s so many micro groups in different sites. Now that it’s not the same issue I had when we tried to do this, when we tried to enter this space, it it’s much more inviting.

Speaker 1 (12m 30s): Okay. So what’s the difference between you said you’ve been in the lifestyle for 15 years?

Speaker 2 (12m 35s): Little bit, little over 15 years. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12m 37s): Okay. So what’s the difference between 15 years ago and now what’s changed.

Speaker 2 (12m 42s): It’s more of an open subject. We don’t use the word swingers. We don’t like the word swingers. We use the word lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (12m 49s): Yes.

Speaker 2 (12m 50s): Because swingers seems to have a bed, not, you know, going back to connotation where you yeah. When you threw your keys in a bowl and you picked, and that was the person you were gonna have sex with. And that’s, that’s not what we are nowadays. We’re, we’re about throwing these massive high budget parties, these huge takeovers, these, these all inclusive takeover cruises. I mean, it’s become a, a really big market, no different than, than, you know, if you were going on a cruise that was all inclusive, but didn’t have the sex.

I mean, everybody likes,

Speaker 1 (13m 26s): That’s really all inclusive.

Speaker 2 (13m 28s): Yeah. Yeah. You know,

Speaker 1 (13m 31s): Go, go ahead. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (13m 32s): I was gonna say no, there’s like four cruises a year now that just cater to the lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (13m 37s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (13m 38s): So we got one coming up, going the Barcelona in June.

Speaker 1 (13m 41s): This is one of yours.

Speaker 2 (13m 43s): It’s one of them that I’ll be on because I have a contract with that crew with that cruise line or with that lifestyle group, that travel agency.

Speaker 1 (13m 51s): Hmm. So, so has your, has your experience in hospitality helped with that?

Speaker 2 (13m 57s): I think so. I mean, I was, I was in upper management and hospitality. I ran a couple of big hotels in California and I think anytime you have that on your, you know, you have that background, it, it allows you to, to be a better person and, and better read a room. So yeah, of course, of course the hospitality field helped.

Speaker 1 (14m 15s): Are you guys planning on doing some of your own events?

Speaker 2 (14m 19s): Currently? The only thing we do now is our annual ASN lifestyle magazine awards, which this year is this last year that it’ll be virtual next year. We’re planning on being live with people and we’re looking at Vegas.

Speaker 1 (14m 35s): Okay. But no cruises,

Speaker 2 (14m 38s): No cruises. Well, I mean, I have cruises, but I have them because of a contract I have with a certain travel company. Yeah. So yeah, we’re doing those, but we do ’em we report on the cruise when we’re, when we’re on the ship.

Speaker 1 (14m 49s): Okay. Okay. So the two of you are, are in the lifestyle yourself. I was gonna say swingers, but I won’t. Okay. How did you get started in the lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (15m 1s): You know, I just, I, I was young and I like to have sex, you know, it’s, it’s not like now where I’d rather use a sandwich

Speaker 1 (15m 8s): Different from anyone else.

Speaker 2 (15m 10s): I don’t think so, but yeah, that’s what it started with. It was just that. And then meeting some people that ended up were in the lifestyle, I got introduced to it and it just, it just, that’s where it started, you know? And then you have that conversation with your wife is when we got married, we weren’t in the lifestyle. It was, you know, this is something that I think we needed to have a discussion about and it worked, you know, it may have not worked, but I probably would still be doing the same business. I’m not, I’m not sure that I wouldn’t have changed.

Speaker 1 (15m 38s): Okay. So what happened by the way, excuse me, you started in, in 2011, what happened between 2011 and 2018?

Speaker 2 (15m 51s): We were actually shooting porn between 2011 and 2018. We owned a company called real Florida Housewives. Oh, okay. And that’s, that’s where we, we, that’s how we were able to slip into the lifestyle because of the, the people we knew.

Speaker 1 (16m 4s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (16m 5s): And then we went from that to where I was on a, I was part of triplex porn star radio, which is now no longer in business, but that’s, that’s kind of where I got my roots into the porn and meeting porn stars that were swingers and, and getting to meet those people. And, and it just, just exploded from there.

Speaker 1 (16m 26s): Yeah. No pun intended,

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): No pun intended.

Speaker 1 (16m 29s): So talk about how the business started and I’m sure you got some great stories about getting the business up and running

Speaker 2 (16m 39s): Well, yeah, it’s, it’s really funny. This came at the end of our, our, our contract with triplex porn star radio 2017. Hmm. We were sitting in the, I was sitting at my desk and we were starting the beginnings of this, of this magazine. And my wife said to me, she says, look, Michael, seriously, if you don’t do something of this business, I’m, I’m out, you know, I’m, I’m done, we’re gonna separate. And this is actually in the April issue of 2019.

It talks about everything that happened. But yeah. So I went in my office that night and I sold my first ad for the magazine that no one knew existed at that point. Wild. Yeah. And it’s funny is I sold the first ad for $30, you know, and we we’ve come a long way from that 30 bucks, but it was the first 30 bucks we made. And that was a turning point for us as a couple, as a business. And it just enhanced the relationship from there moving forward.

Speaker 1 (17m 41s): Yeah. That’s fantastic. So any other stories about getting started?

Speaker 2 (17m 47s): Not really. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, we, we, like I said, we’ve met a lot of people. We’ve used the knowledge that we’ve had from the lifestyle. I, I, I used, like I said, a lot of the people that I’ve, that I believed in, you know, what I’d call except the top echelon of those lifestyle. And I, and, and I cultivated those relationships. And when it was time to put the magazine together, I then called on them and they came in, they were in the magazine and stuff like that. I mean, we’ve had people from Playboy on the cover, you know, everyone put their foot forward to help us be successful.

So if, if it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t be here.

Speaker 1 (18m 22s): Now it occurs to me because you and I have connected and, and we’re doing business together. And, and we’re now an advertiser. Yes. It occurs to me that you guys are getting more mainstream. It, it seems like ASN is out there more people, more people know about it. Talk about that transformation.

Speaker 2 (18m 47s): That transformation is incredible. And, and I still look at her and I go, can you believe this? Because it’s only yesterday where we were struggling to, to, to make the 30 bucks. Hmm. And what we, the vision we’ve always had was produce the best quality magazine we can. Yeah. Just because we’re in this niche didn’t mean it had to be smutty. Oh yeah. And so we, we, we did our best. We, we, we often say that if GQ employee boy had a baby, it would be ASN lifestyle magazine.

Nice. So when we moved to the mainstream, which is what we, we’ve kind of done this route where right now we’re in the middle between the adult lifestyle and the lifestyle, I’m sorry, the adult industry and the lifestyle. And we’re now picking at that mainstream audience. And we did that on purpose we’ve even retailer, the award show so that it didn’t distinguish between whether you were a lifestyle or adult industry. Interesting. Because we, well, I just went back to the grassroots that we had because we were successful there. So why sure.

Reinvent the wheel when you already have it, just make it better. And, and that’s what we did. And, and we just focused on marketing. I mean, marketing, marketing, marketing, the message. Yeah. You know, we, we, we pride ourselves. We say, you know what, it’s all about the lifestyle, which, which it was, it’s all about the community. It’s all about the people that read our magazine. We listen to them, we talk to these people, you know, when they call up the phone, they actually get one of us. They don’t, they don’t get a voicemail. That’s what we do. We’re constant communication with the people that, that, that support the magazine and that pay to have their ads in the magazine, because that’s the backbone of our magazine as our advertisers.

Speaker 1 (20m 29s): Okay. So talk about the blending. And this is kind of a similar question, the blending of the mainstream adult industry with the lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (20m 41s): I think that started because when we started doing exotica with, I think at the time it was lifestyle X, or it was couples X, and now it’s lifestyle X. They had a little niche that, that was carved out for them in exotica, where they had the lifestyle, people had their boost. And that, you know, I, I looked at that one year and I I’m saying, well, okay, if the lifestyle can come to a, to an adult industry convention yeah. And coexist, then why can’t the magazine coexist with these same people?

Sure. So that’s kind of where it started. Then I, again, I went back to the people I knew and I said, Hey, what do you think this is? I wanna make this turn here. It’s, it’s not been done before. Do you think this is possible? And we were reassured, you know, they said, Michael, Sherry, you know what you guys do is brilliant. If you, we, we don’t see you failing. So just keep moving forward. We’ve never looked back.

Speaker 1 (21m 35s): Nice. Very nice. So now you talked, you referred earlier to your annual awards event. So get into some detail about what it’s all about, you know, the, you know, some of the categories, how does someone get nominated? And I I’m sure you’re excited about getting back to in-person events.

Speaker 2 (21m 57s): Oh, we can’t wait to get back to in-person events. The last award show we had in person was in Vegas and it was right before COVID hit. And then we’ve been off since then. We’ve been doing the awards show virtually. Yeah. But it’s not the same as having a room full of people. We, we still try to produce a, a show that, that we think they, like, we want them to sit there, to sit there for 46 minutes and watch which, from what we’re seeing, they did, they sat there and they watch for, there was people having watch parties last of the award show all over the country to see if they won awards.

So they going to their clubs and having these watch parties.

Speaker 1 (22m 35s): That’s very cool.

Speaker 2 (22m 36s): Yeah. And we did the award show on a Sunday, so most of these clubs were closed, so that reopened them, that allowed them to get revenue. And then they had people come in and watch to see if the, if their club won. That’s neat. So it was good.

Speaker 1 (22m 48s): That’s really neat.

Speaker 2 (22m 50s): Yeah. So I’m sorry. I just need you to, what was the other part of that question? Cause

Speaker 1 (22m 55s): So talk a bit about the award show, how it came about, you know, maybe some of the, some of the categories. Sure. What it’s all about and how does someone get nominated?

Speaker 2 (23m 9s): The award show came together through the fact that we’re a, we’re a publisher. And when you look at a lot of the award shows are backed by publishers, by magazines by by. So we thought, well, this was the next natural step for us and our progression of what we wanted to do. So we, again sat down with our, our inner circle, talked about what we wanted to do. And then the award show was born. Wow. Our second, our first year we actually just loaned our name out to, to another event.

But we, the award show was named the ASN lifestyle magazine awards, but it was hosted by another, another event in, in Vegas. Okay. The second year was we were on our own and it was a virtual event. And we, we changed between what you did in 19, sorry. In 2020 to 2021, where the nominations, you were nominated, anyone could be nominated. It didn’t matter where you came from, you could be nominated. And then we, we, then you would then voting would start. Now, the problem with that, that award show was, and we learned is that we had maybe 30, 40 people in the same category when it came time for voting.

So that obviously it was successful because people nominated and people voted, but it wasn’t conducive to us to have so many people in the same category. So for this year’s award show, we changed it up. And again, this is from learning and we’ll continue to learn and change, but this year nominations are open and we want you to constantly nominate, nominate, nominate, nominate. And then what we’re doing is we’re taking the top five nominations and then they’re gonna move on to the finals. Now, nominations end April 30th of this, this month.


Speaker 1 (24m 54s): I should say, I should say that. Tell everyone that we’re, we’re recording this on April 26th and they’ll be long over by the time this runs, sorry.

Speaker 2 (25m 3s): That’s true. Yeah. That’s true. Yeah. So, Hey, you know, predict winner maybe, but so then the award show start, the voting will start in may and then it’ll go to June and then we do our award show virtual event. We’re gonna do it a mansion here in Orlando, where I have the presenters coming in and they’re gonna do it. They’re all signed NDAs. So then no one talks about the award show and then we produce it and you’ll see it in September.

Speaker 1 (25m 31s): You will, you will be on before September. I do.

Speaker 2 (25m 34s): Okay.

Speaker 1 (25m 34s): We’ll see. Maybe no, we got these interviews booked out so far. I’m sorry. I

Speaker 2 (25m 40s): Hear you. No, no, no, it’s fine. But like you asked about categories. Yeah. Yeah. There, we have everything from best lifestyle crew. Oh, sorry. Best cruise company. Best travel company. Best resort. Best camgirl best fan site. Best public relations company. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we, we changed it up dramatically. Best

Speaker 1 (25m 60s): Website broker, best

Speaker 2 (26m 1s): Ex well, there is best website. So unfortunately I can’t nominate you. You have to have your people nominate you. That’s one thing people ask about the transparency of the awards and we’re very transparent there. Our awards are certified by a CPA every year who takes the votes and counts and then gives them back to us the day of, well for this year would be the day of that. We’re gonna do the production at the, at the house, the mansion that we’re gonna rent. Cool.

And that’s the first time we’ll actually see the results. When we go ahead and hand those envelopes to everybody

Speaker 1 (26m 36s): Sounds awesome.

Speaker 2 (26m 37s): Well, we did it because there’s so much controversy in this category, our event for something that should be, you know, joyous. It’s, it’s not like you’re, you’re winning a Nobel peace prize, you know? I mean, it’s nice that, that, that people are very competitive, but we’re not gonna sell out ourselves to, to, to, to, to R an event that should be fun. Yeah. So that’s why we go above and beyond the steps to prove that, you know, there’s never, ever gonna be a question.

No one can ever come back to ASN and say, Hey, you know, we kind of think that your award shows maybe a little hunky, cuz it’s not.

Speaker 1 (27m 18s): Yeah. I, I get that impression about some of the award shows, but we won’t talk about that. So, and it seems like from some of the categories, it’s definitely a lot of it is mainstream mainstream adult.

Speaker 2 (27m 31s): It, it, it is, but it’s a crossover. Cause you gotta remember two years of the pandemic, a lot of your lifestyle couples were now doing camming. Yep. They were doing camming. They were doing, they were doing anything they could. That generated income. Of course. So that’s where this came from. So, and there’s such a really now 20, 22, there’s such a, it’s very hard to see the difference almost between someone that is in the adult industry and someone that’s into the lifestyle because those lives parallel. They go, they really go side by side.

Speaker 1 (28m 0s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (28m 1s): And, and it’s incredible. So that, that’s why we took the direction we did. And that’s why we took off the word lifestyle in the awards, even though they’re called the ASN lifestyle magazine awards.

Speaker 1 (28m 11s): That’s awesome. Now you offer people the chance to become models. So what are you, what are you, what kind of models are you looking for? What are the models, images and videos used for and do they have to come see you in person? Or could they send you images?

Speaker 2 (28m 31s): Actually? No, they they’d never have to come see us in person. I mean, it’s in the Orlando market then. Yeah. We would meet up for lunch or coffee just to have a conversation. But what they do is they would go to our, our corporate site, ASN entertainment.com and they would fill out a mall registration. And basically that’s all the legal moment jumbo protects us with the us, says, you know us 2 57. Yeah. Right. That way we have it on file. And then basically they pick there’s this categories of what we offer for the magazine.

And then they, they go ahead and check what they want. And then what we do is in my, my wife would get ’em my CFO. And then she goes through ’em and she actually makes first contact and then schedules, whether we’re gonna have a video conference or meet in person. And sometimes the model can get into the magazine right away. Sometimes it may take six months to a year for that performer or model to get into the magazine.

Speaker 1 (29m 26s): Hmm. Okay. And so you’re just, you’re basically putting images in the magazine.

Speaker 2 (29m 34s): Well, we have images. We usually ask when, when a typical, let’s say a lifestyle couple comes and they say, you know, we’d like to go, go ahead and be in your magazine. Well, that’s great, but we want a little more substance. So we asked for, give us your bio, what’s your story? What, what makes you unique? What, what brought you to the lifestyle or what brought you to the adult industry? Why, why should people, why should our readers read about you? What makes you different? And they usually, they like that. Sure. So we usually get between 1500 to 3000 words, five to 10 pictures.

And that goes in as a pictorial, we allow them to go ahead and link to different their social media. Cool. At the end. And it it’s, you know, so far it’s worked out really well. I mean, I think we, we have the secret sauce for success.

Speaker 1 (30m 18s): Now, speaking of the secret sauce, I don’t know how much of this you want to give away. What advice would you give to someone thinking of starting their own lifestyle magazine?

Speaker 2 (30m 29s): Don’t give up, be persistent. You’re gonna fail. You’re gonna fail over and over again. In fact, I have a plaque on my desk that says very simple success comes from failure. Yeah. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve failed. So my biggest advice is, Hey, gimme a call. I’d be more happy to talk to you. There’s so much room in this, in this, in this space that I’ll never shut the door down from someone that wants to go ahead and advance themselves and do something like this. Nice. I think that, you know, that creates competition and competition is good.

Speaker 1 (31m 0s): I agree with you. And I like the fact you’re not gonna do to them. What the industry did to you initially.

Speaker 2 (31m 8s): Right? Well, it happens, but I believe in paying it forward and that’s, as long as I live by that mantra and I live with good karma, good things will happen.

Speaker 1 (31m 17s): Hey, who knows? Maybe someday they’ll buy out and I’ll broker. Maybe that

Speaker 2 (31m 24s): Be fine. We’d have to figure out a way for, to stay on board though, because I it’s it’s, you know, it’s funny that you say that because it is very hard to, and I think maybe cuz we’re owners to give the keys to someone else to produce the magazine. It’s very to, to me. Yeah. No one knows what I do, but it’s a process usually takes me between 19 to 25 days to produce a typical magazine that runs around 180, 190 pages. Hmm. And that’s layout, that’s that’s links.

That’s everything that needs to be in it. It’s crazy, but it’s a lot. And I don’t know if I’m ready to show somebody that yet. Sure. My wife tells me I have to because there’s other projects that we’re moving on to that that are gonna need more of my time. So it may happen sooner than later.

Speaker 1 (32m 12s): And I will, I will attest to the fact that Michael is extremely hands on. He’s extremely hands on. So you talked about other projects when, what you got coming up.

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): Ah, we have something that’s launching soon. We’re trying to launch it before July. It’s gonna be called the ASN hub.

Speaker 1 (32m 30s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (32m 31s): And the hub is gonna be really what it is. It’s gonna be the hub. It’s gonna be the repository for all the articles that you see in the magazine. We do this to help the advertisers get a, a better ROI, better return on their investment because now they get their magazine that goes out. It’s there. But now when someone comes to the hub, they’re gonna see all these active articles all the time.

Speaker 1 (32m 53s): Cool.

Speaker 2 (32m 53s): So it’s that part. It’s also, we’re becoming, we’re gonna be a de repository for everyone that has press releases and we’re gonna store all those press releases from all over the place. Nice. And then share that information. We started it with the entertainment because obviously I, I, we handle some your PR. Yes, but we’re gonna expand it. Oh, it’s our pleasure. But we’re gonna expand it. So it benefits the person writing the PR the person that’s the PR is about and the overall, you know, synergy of the community in the industry.

Speaker 1 (33m 25s): Cool. So,

Speaker 2 (33m 26s): And that, that’s the second thing. And I don’t know if I could talk about the third thing yet, cuz we’re still in development of it.

Speaker 1 (33m 32s): Okay. If you tell me you’ll have to kill me and all my and more and how that hub, that’s more back links, man. We’re always looking for that stuff. So I appreciate it. Oh yeah. And I’m sure everybody will. So what advice would you give to someone who’s thinking of getting into the lifestyle?

Speaker 2 (33m 50s): Huh? That’s a good question. Because I think a lot of people get into the lifestyle for the wrong reasons. You have to really almost have that conversation with yourself, asking, you know, why, what is it about the lifestyle that you’re attracted to that makes you want to go this route? A lot of people do it because guys do it because they want, they, you know, they’re oh, I wanna have sex with lots of women.

Speaker 1 (34m 12s): I wanna get laid. Yeah. Well isn’t that? What all isn’t that? What all young single guys do and not, not necessarily young,

Speaker 2 (34m 19s): But, but, but you know what? That’s not what it, that’s not what it’s about. That’s not how it works. So when they come in with that connotation, it sets a bad tone. Sure. Or they, they force their girlfriend or wife to do it because this is something they, they want to do. Right. And then that ends badly. Oh yeah. Really have to have that conversation at heart to heart. It’s no different than someone that’s in BDSM. And then after a session, you have to have that, that recovery, you know, the, that repair because you, you, you’re doing something that you don’t typically do in life.

Right? And then you have to, you gotta get back together. You, the best thing that I suggest is that go visit a club, go visit down here in Florida. We have trapeze. We have secret ti away, go visit those and see, you can get a day pass at many of these places, get an idea for what it is. A lot of these places will also give you a tour and show you different things and explain a little bit more detail. But at the end of the day, you have to, it comes from the gut because not everybody’s built for this, just like not everybody could do what you do. Not everybody could be a professional basketball player.

It takes a certain caliber of human being to put themselves and maybe watch their wife being screwed by somebody or, or whatever, because it’s, it’s a different mindset.

Speaker 1 (35m 31s): Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (35m 32s): So kind of compare it to porn. I think that’s why porn actors, actors are able to, to, to go back and forth. Right. You know, I, I have a lot of friends that are in the lifestyle that, that, that do porn as well. And they’ve been around for many, many years.

Speaker 1 (35m 45s): Sure, sure. Now ASN is a business. Are there any types of content or any organizations you’d to include in your publications on general principles?

Speaker 2 (35m 57s): Anything that’s hate? We won’t, we won’t publish. I mean, that’s just common decency really hate. We don’t want to get into politics that much. Although if you’re gonna write a piece, that’s an opinion piece we have from time to time allowed them to come in. It just really depends on what the relevancy is to the lifestyle or to the industry. If it has a connection, then, then we more likely will allow it to come in. But definitely no hate, no discrimination, no antisemites, none of that stuff that you would, you would seize other places.

We just don’t, we won’t put up with it. All ideas is to provide a space that people like enjoy and want to come back to.

Speaker 1 (36m 39s): Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So now, if someone wants to advertise their event, their podcast or their product, what should they know and how should they go about

Speaker 2 (36m 49s): It? We have currently, if you went to ASN ol magazine.com and you went to, we have this big button that this is advertised with us, ah, simply click on that. It takes you to where you’ll see the different ad sizes that we offer talks about. The different packages that we have are also is our latest media kit is there as well. So you can see our reach, our audience, our demographics and stuff like that. And the companies that do really well in the magazine. So that’s all for everybody to see. And then if they still have more questions, they could always pick up a phone, call me or call Sherry and we’d be more happy to, to talk to them about it.

Our, a typical advertiser has saved with us from the beginning. We, I think the pandemic, we lost two clubs because they closed down. They’re no longer in business. Sure. And we had one fallout that went away, but they were with us for four years and it, we were friends and it was a personal issue and we decided that we didn’t want their business.

Speaker 1 (37m 49s): Hmm.

Speaker 2 (37m 49s): Okay. But other than that, and I always say to a potential advertiser, go through our magazine, pick an ad at random and call ’em and ask. ’em why they’re in the magazine.

Speaker 1 (37m 59s): Nice.

Speaker 2 (37m 60s): Because that’s the only way that that’s the best way to sell it because I can tell you all day that, you know, I’m gonna sell you this car. I’m gonna tell you all the great things about it. But I want you to know what’s under the hood and why is this the car for you? Sure. So if you go talk to a club or somebody out in far right field, that’s in the, in the magazine, ask them why, well, one, how long have you been with the magazine and why are you still here?

Speaker 1 (38m 21s): Yeah. How’s it working?

Speaker 2 (38m 22s): Yeah. That’s it. Exactly. And you know, and 99% of ’em are gonna say, because they, they get a return and they’re, they like the relationship, the one-on-one that we give them, we reach out to them every couple of months say, Hey, do you wanna change up your ad? Do you wanna do this? Let’s you know, how can we target market for you better? You know? Yeah. Yeah. So we’re constantly hands on that way. And then the, I just lost my train of thought. The other thing was

Speaker 1 (38m 49s): Mine jumps the track on a regular basis.

Speaker 2 (38m 50s): It does. I just watched it hop to track, but it’s just, we’re there for everybody, you know? I mean, is it for everybody? No, but, but is it, is it for a lot of people? Yes. I mean, we currently have businesses in the magazine that aren’t even in the lifestyle of detail industry. Right. You know, I have urologists, I have plastic surgeons. I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 (39m 10s): They’re in Florida, you’re in Florida, you have plastic surgeons. How’d they find you.

Speaker 2 (39m 15s): I took, it took a while, but they found me, You know, and we offer a really competitive ad package. You know, we, we, I think we’re the cheapest in the business. I definitely, if you were to, now, I know we’re not Playboy, but if you were to compare us to Playboy Playboy charges, $5,000 for a quarter page ad to run one time, you know, our, our starting rate for a year contract is $500. It was supposed to go up because of the pandemic. We haven’t had an increase, but we’ve also never hit our ceiling.

So we’ve had no resistance to our price increases over the last few years. So we are due for one. We’re gonna wait and do it in 2023.

Speaker 1 (39m 54s): That’s probably wise. Yeah. Now your magazine features a lot of big names in the swinger’s world. Do you get a chance to meet these people a lot?

Speaker 2 (40m 3s): Absolutely. That that’s one of the greatest perks about this business in the magazine is I do get to meet a lot of these people. We’ve right. Lately it seems like we’re running, we’re doing a lot of CEOs, you know, and women in the sex tech business. And it’s great. It’s, it’s really, it’s re re refigured a lot of things that we’re, we’re trying to give everybody what they want and, you know, cultivating again, these are new relationships that we, that we’re making and they tell their people, Hey, you know what?

You should be in the magazine. And I’ll tell you where a lot of my CEOs come from. I have a very active LinkedIn account. Hmm. And I’m constantly in the conversations about sex tech, about lifestyle. Yeah. About anything that has to do with the sex injuries, sex workers. We, we just did a, a deal with Mustang ranch. Oh, wow. Out in Reno, Nevada, not the pro side

Speaker 1 (40m 56s): Of it, of my childhood,

Speaker 2 (40m 59s): Not the Broel side, but we brought on their executive chef as our, as our new contributor

Speaker 1 (41m 4s): Never met him.

Speaker 2 (41m 6s): Well, he’s, he’s been there for 14 years, I think now.

Speaker 1 (41m 10s): Yeah. Still have never met him anyway.

Speaker 2 (41m 14s): No, but so, I mean, that’s, that’s what we do. You know, we had a really,

Speaker 1 (41m 17s): I didn’t, I didn’t go there to eat

Speaker 2 (41m 18s): Well, they have good steak, just so you

Speaker 1 (41m 22s): Know. Okay. It’s good to know. I’ll I’ll keep, I’ll keep that in mind for the future. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (41m 26s): No, no. Unfortunately I go out there for business.

Speaker 1 (41m 30s): So what do you wish people understood about the lifestyle

Speaker 2 (41m 34s): That they need to hold their judgment and actually get to know someone or ask questions about it and not just take what they see on TV and what they read in the paper or the news. Cause that’s, that’s not, that’s not, that’s not true. There was a piece that was done in LA about a club that was rated during the pandemic. That was a lifestyle party and they, they compared it to sex trafficking. Oh lovely. It’s you can’t be further

Speaker 1 (41m 60s): From yeah. But yeah, but doesn’t the media compare everything in our industry to sex trafficking.

Speaker 2 (42m 4s): Yeah. They, they crazy. They do because they, you know, the media isn’t media anymore, the media’s entertainment. Yep. So that’s how they, that’s how they, they pay their bills and click. I’m not gonna get in there cuz I have a whole different

Speaker 1 (42m 18s): It’s all click bait.

Speaker 2 (42m 19s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we give it to you straight, you know, we actually, here’s the other thing I have you asked for it. We have it, we have Michael photography. We have one the, the, the leading adult entertainment attorneys that writes for us.

Speaker 1 (42m 33s): Oh Michael. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42m 35s): Also. Yep. Michael writes for us. Yeah. You know, so I mean we cover every basis. So I mean, he just got done doing a five page, sorry. A five month article on, on only fans and, and about the lifestyle about these people trying to get into it, making sure they’re protected and stuff like that. So I mean, it’s, it’s a great tool. So we try, if we don’t have it, we try to get it, you know, the, the magazine covers travel. It covers real estate, which you would find real estate. Yeah. We’ve sold six homes out of the magazine.

Speaker 1 (43m 6s): Wow.

Speaker 2 (43m 7s): You know, so it’s, it’s realtors out there, you know, Hey, we, we have a really good package for you. If you wanna put your real estate in.

Speaker 1 (43m 13s): And there’s also stakes at the Mustang ranch that, you know, if there’s one thing I learned today, that’s, that’s probably the greatest one now. Now, where do you think I’m kidding? Where do you think the swinging scene needs to change and improve?

Speaker 2 (43m 28s): I think that’s going to, that’s gonna come on the techno technology side. Hmm. I think you’re gonna see the websites that are older. That, that look like they’ve been around since, I don’t know, since I was a baby, they that’s where, where the money’s gonna be spent. Yep. That’s where the changes are gonna, you’re gonna see in applications such as apps and websites, you’re gonna see these resorts. There’s new resorts popping up to KR lifestyle. I think desire just opened up two new resorts in the Dominican.

Hmm. So there’s, there’s more of it coming around. It’s not in your face, but it’s there. And if you’re in the scene, you know where, where to go to get, see, go to visit these places.

Speaker 1 (44m 14s): Now, how do you think people in the lifestyle are different between the USA and Europe?

Speaker 2 (44m 20s): Oh gosh. Between the difference between the USA and Europe. We’re we’re, we’re, we’re nothing compared to Europe. Europe is so much more laid back. Just, I mean, they will actually put, put the name of their Springer’s club on the wall outside here. It’s it’s, that’s taboo. You don’t put the name of it. You just put the address and people show up and you go and they go through a door, you know, nondescript in Europe there very open, they’re open to nudity. They’re open to their sexuality. It’s just, it’s a good experience for you to go to Europe and experience that.

Yeah. Because it’s like no weather. You, you, when you go to Europe and see that and you come home, you go, oh my God, we’re so close minded.

Speaker 1 (45m 2s): You know? Well, you turn on TV there and there’s sex on TV. It’s not, you know, it’s not, it’s not hidden on cable.

Speaker 2 (45m 10s): I, I remember the first time as a kid, we were watching mash and I heard Alan Alda say bullshit. That was the big thing back in the day, you know? And, and then when I lived in Canada with my wife on bringing TV, there’s a Sopranos and there’s a sex scene, you know? Wow. Here in the states, you had to watch the Sopranos on HBO.

Speaker 1 (45m 28s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 29s): Not in Canada.

Speaker 1 (45m 30s): Yeah. Pretty crazy now. Yes. Where can someone find ASN on social media and how can they contact you?

Speaker 2 (45m 38s): Oh gosh. On social media. We’re on Twitter at ASN ASN lifestyle mag. Okay. We’re on Pinterest is ASN lifestyle mag. Okay. We’re on Facebook ASN lifestyle magazine. And where else are we Twitter? Facebook.

Speaker 1 (45m 59s): I don’t know. Where

Speaker 2 (45m 59s): Are you? Oh, Instagram ASN LS. Mag.

Speaker 1 (46m 3s): Okay.

Speaker 2 (46m 4s): Very good. Yeah. And then we’re on most of the, the adult swinging lifestyle sites, STC as ASN entertainment. Casty as ASN lifestyle magazine and as ASN lifestyle magazine.

Speaker 1 (46m 22s): Beautiful. Now I, if you started all over again, what would you have done differently?

Speaker 2 (46m 29s): I don’t think I would do anything differently. And the reason I say that was because yes, it was hard. Yeah. And I had to, and, and I lost my ass and I lost money. I think it was still the best experience I could have had cuz through that experience is how I grew. And now I’m able to help other people. Yeah. You know, like you had said earlier, there wasn’t anybody helping me, you know, we either fell in our ass or, or we made it and we decided we were gonna make it. Sure. So being able to, to have that experience and, and that foundation is what allows us to move forward and continue to grow.

Now, I believe we’re continuing to grow every day and every month and every year something’s different gonna be about the magazine that had didn’t happen the year before.

Speaker 1 (47m 13s): That’s awesome. Well, Michael, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again real soon,

Speaker 2 (47m 21s): Bruce. I appreciate it. And it it’s really a pleasure to speak with you and, and to hear your voice for the first time.

Speaker 1 (47m 27s): Yes, indeed. My broker tip today is part seven of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement in escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owner’s participation will be after the sale you’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things.

If you don’t have experience in these areas, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult business consulting. You can get more information on what this company does@adultbusinessconsulting.com. We help website owners, project manage and guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right pieces in place, processing, hosting, payments, production, scripts, et cetera. Or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you. Let us know if we can help.

Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting firm to help evaluate all of these items and everything, the site is spending money on and using to operate the site, make sure you’re getting a good deal and that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better. Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service. Many times a server is just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website.

Next week. we’ll talk about how to sell a site and next week we’ll be speaking with sex toy expert Kim Airs. And that’s it for this week’s adult site broker talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, Michael Ramos, talk to you again next week on adult site broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be speaking with Gavin Worrall of Verify my Age and Verify my Content.
ASB Cash, the affiliate program for Adult Site Broker would like to announce we’ve doubled our affiliate payouts! That’s right. Now when you refer sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral. 
You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.
Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale a content company that stood the test of time. They recently redesigned and relaunch their site with a completely new front and back end and an all new automated FTP system. Since that time sales have soared, the site now has over 50,000 scenes, 50,000 photo sets, 10,000 DVDs, and over 10,000 models. Their content represents the top studios in the adult industry.
They have exclusive content with some of their studios and thousands of raw HD scenes yet to be used plus close to 10,000 HD scenes that can generate revenue from VOD or P P V. This company can be kept as is or turned into a massive tube site membership site, or clip store with an incredible amount of content. Only 1.75 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today, an adult site broker talk is Gavin worl of verify my age and verify my content.
Gavin, thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,
Speaker 2 (2m 22s): Bruce, thank you for having me. I know I’ve been character.
Speaker 1 (2m 29s): We were supposed, we were supposed to do this one about eight months ago, but I know
Speaker 2 (2m 33s): Exactly.
Speaker 1 (2m 34s): I know since, since the new product you’ve been pretty busy, so I’ll let you off the hook this time, but don’t let it happen again. Okay. So let’s tell everyone about you for the past 20 years, Gavin has worked across a wide range of sectors, mainly in financial services, such as corporate finance, consumer lending banking. I won’t hold it against you, PSPS and FX. He has vast experience working in regulated markets. Having spent over a decade with the well respected banking group, close brothers in the UK, which is listed on the foot C two 50.
His passion is in sales. So we share that where he is a fellow for the Institute of sales professionals, and I’m not. And often mentors and develops up and coming graduates. He’s driven by the desire to solve business problems often created by regulators don’t. We know that and the adult sector is an exciting and challenging area to develop. That’s an understatement. Finally, he is a south African born Brit lives in the UK, so he has a great accent, travels the globe. Speaking about the benefits of verify my age and verify my content.
How was that for a commercial?
Speaker 2 (3m 42s): Fantastic. I’m going to, I’m gonna bring you on board. That was brilliant.
Speaker 1 (3m 46s): Okay. Sounds good. So besides what I just covered, Gavin, tell me a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (3m 53s): So yeah, I guess Bruce, the, the most exciting element for me in what we do is solve these issues that are coming about by regulators. So, so from my point of view, I’m someone that enjoys unpacking all of this regulation identifying.
Speaker 1 (4m 13s): So you’re the one. So you’re the one.
Speaker 2 (4m 16s): Yeah. So, so regulators are often the bad guy, right? They often seen as the bad guy and, and we find ways to actually step back and look at what they’re trying to achieve and then deliver something that is quick and simple and frictionless to the industry. There are number of rules and regulations that are constantly coming out, right? So anyone within the financial industry, it’s a massive headache. And what we always do is just find technological means to satisfy those regulators.
So it doesn’t impact the business. Right. Simple as that.
Speaker 1 (4m 53s): Right. Right.
Speaker 2 (4m 54s): And we’ve got, and I’ve brought that same philosophy mindset. Yeah. To verify my age in content, especially within the adult sector, because well, there’s regulation everywhere and there’s only gonna be more of it. I’m afraid. It’s it’s certainly not gonna go away.
Speaker 1 (5m 9s): Sure, sure. Yeah. I think, I think age verification is going to be everywhere.
Speaker 2 (5m 16s): It is. There’s there’s no getting away from it. From alcohol in store, from purchasing alcohol online to the adult entertainment sector. Sure. It’s it’s it’s, that’s just gonna be the bottom line. Sure. And look at the end of the day, when you look at our children, Bruce, all they do is live on social media. I’ve I often don’t have any clue what my kid, what my kids are looking at or what they’re doing.
Speaker 1 (5m 44s): I’m pretty safe.
Speaker 2 (5m 45s): I just have dogs, I think to a certain extent
Speaker 1 (5m 47s): Our dogs aren’t our dogs. Aren’t online. Oh, you look good thing.
Speaker 2 (5m 50s): Oh, you’re lucky, man. You’re lucky, man.
Speaker 1 (5m 54s): Well, what about you? What about you personally? So, you know, what, what do you like to do? Tell us about yourself outside of work.
Speaker 2 (6m 3s): Yeah, sure. So I’m a, I’m a very sporting individual being from South Africa originally. I love my rugby.
Speaker 1 (6m 12s): Of course.
Speaker 2 (6m 13s): So every weekend I’m with my boy watching him play rugby and nice. And my, and my wife, she stays at home because she can’t take the fact that we have these very big lads hitting each other very D very hard. And she had preferred just to stay at home, get a text message.
Speaker 1 (6m 35s): It’s it’s like American football without pads,
Speaker 2 (6m 38s): Without the pads. That’s it. It’s crazy. Isn’t it? I
Speaker 1 (6m 42s): Think’s a great sport.
Speaker 2 (6m 44s): Oh, it’s a lovely sport. It’s I think it’s a great certainly for, for teenagers, you know, Bruce coming up and they got all that excess testosterone they need to get rid of. It’s a, it’s a great sport
Speaker 1 (6m 57s): To just give me some.
Speaker 2 (6m 60s): Yeah.
Speaker 1 (7m 2s): I’m 64 and I’m growing tits. Come on, give some of that test.
Speaker 2 (7m 8s): So
Speaker 1 (7m 8s): You were, you were starting, you were starting to say about your wife. Sorry. I interrupted.
Speaker 2 (7m 12s): No, she just hates it. She hates the sport. I can understand why she’s looking at her little boy, come home with broken limbs and a broken eye socket and
Speaker 1 (7m 21s): My God.
Speaker 2 (7m 23s): So she, she likes to, and then you got my daughter on the other hand who just refuses to do any type of sport. She just preferred to either read a book or actually probably spends too much time on social media to be fair.
Speaker 1 (7m 36s): Don’t they? Yeah. How, how old were your kids?
Speaker 2 (7m 39s): 17 and 15 now. Oh, wow. So, so we get into that point where it’s university in six months for my son. Oh my God. And then my daughter goes into her senior year as well. So it makes you feel very old. I must say I feel like an old man. Although I feel, I feel like I’m still in my twenties, Bruce. I feel like I’m still in my, yeah.
Speaker 1 (7m 59s): Yeah. I’m I’m 64. I don’t wanna fucking hear it anyway. So, so now you come from mainstream, primarily finance. How has your experience been so far working in the adult space?
Speaker 2 (8m 12s): So I guess there a lot of transferable skills that we have brought across primarily around understanding regulation. And when we look at the adult industry, we’ve taken that viewpoint. Let’s just look at what is the regulation that’s currently in Setu and what do we know is going to be coming around the corner? Right. So in many respects, it’s very similar from a regulatory point of view, but it has, it has been eye-opening for us for, for those of us that are, are new to the adult industry.
Yeah. Only from a point of view of, you know, the, we didn’t think there was as much adult entertainment out there is what there is. Oh God. And I, I think as we started to get into it, our, our eyes were opening and going, wow, this is massive. This is, there’s so much bigger than what we thought it would
Speaker 1 (9m 5s): Be. There’s tons. Yeah. There’s tons. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (9m 8s): How about,
Speaker 1 (9m 9s): How about the people you’ve dealt with?
Speaker 2 (9m 10s): Oh, absolutely. Fantastic. Absolutely loved it. I think what I love about this industry is the, although it’s a, a vast industry, it’s a small community. Yes. And, and I think we all work in with a common goal at the end of the day, you know, which is, you know, this is our business. We wanna make it succeed and develop. So everyone is willing to have open conversations and discussions, Bruce it’s. It is, it is so different to obviously the financial sector.
This is an environment where you can actually make things happen for the good, whether it’s for your business, whether it’s for the community, whether it’s for a social reason. And, and I think that’s what we really enjoying so far.
Speaker 1 (9m 58s): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It it’s a family. I, I say it on almost every show when I talk to people, this is a big family and just like any family it’s got it’s good and bad, but for the most part, some
Speaker 2 (10m 13s): It’s good.
Speaker 1 (10m 13s): Yeah. Yeah. Very cool people. So tell us more about verify my age and how it can help companies in our space.
Speaker 2 (10m 23s): Probably the best way to answer that is just to give you a quick overview of how we came about. So two year two coming on three years now, actually we we’re a group of entrepreneurs who were selling age restricted products, but the incumbents that were in the market at the time, just, just weren’t up to scratch. So the decision was made to build our own form of technology to help our own business at the time. And I think that’s what separates us from a lot of the other players in the market, Bruce, because we’ve got that empathy of understanding what the end users going through.
So we’ve designed and developed very far my age to help streamline that and make it as effortless and as frictionless as possible. Okay. But then on the other side, we also understand what a business is going through, which is they need to have the highest possible pass rate. So very far, my age was designed to provide maximum methodologies around age verification. So if you were purchasing a form of alcohol, there would be six or seven different methods that you could use to get verified.
So therefore maximizing that opportunity. So the business was, was built with that in mind. And we have gradually moved and developed into all forms of age restricted sectors at the is one of our biggest, one of, of our largest customers on the age verification side of the world is eBay. So you purchase anything from eBay that’s age restricted.
It has to come through our form of technology in order to approve it before the product can be shipped out. Okay. So we, so we’ve got this great tech, that’s doing all of this. We we’ve developed our team over the last two to three years. So we’ve got guys in Australia, the us, and in Brazil who are helping develop our product and sell it and, and put it in front of organizations that, that need to consider a form of age assurance and, and content moderation.
And I think then over the years, we’ve just looked at that tech and developed it. We’ve streamlined. It we’ve in many respects, tried to perfect. What’s already out there for the, for the adult industry.
Speaker 1 (12m 49s): Did you guys come about with the regulations that have been on again, off again on again in the UK with, with adults?
Speaker 2 (12m 58s): So that’s interesting. It’s a good question there, because I’m asked it quite often. So very far my age came about simply to solve an existing eCommerce problem, which was bad age verification providers. Hmm. Then as we start noticed the UK regulations starting to kick in, we started to therefore develop that same, that same pack of, of, of, of product, okay. To satisfy the UK rigs. Right.
But to be fair, the tech was already there. So there wasn’t much that needed to be done.
Speaker 1 (13m 32s): Hmm. And, and how has the on again, off again on again, UK and other country laws affected you guys?
Speaker 2 (13m 41s): A lot of what we do Bruce, is we try to almost embed ourselves with regulators as much as we possibly can. Yeah. So we can UN so we can understand what’s coming. So although the UK was, was on and off the way they were, I think we still have a strong belief it’s gonna be on right. At some point. So yeah, the, the tech is there to be deployed as, and when it’s needed. But what we’ve been able to do is therefore diversify that very far, my age product, right.
To satisfy new regulations, like MasterCard coming out with their change to, to, to their standards. So it didn’t have a negative effect on us because our core business was in the FM at the time. So in many respects it, us a bit of a favor because we were able to improve that technology even more so.
Speaker 1 (14m 36s): Yeah. And, and, you know, here’s the thing, as we talk, talking about adults, since this is our, our main focus here, nobody in our industry that I know of anyway, wants kids to be able to access porn. In fact, we even have an organization, the association for the, as a C P I forget what it stands stands for, but I’m sure you’ve had contacted with Tim Henning and it’s fully funded by the adult industry to stop people from stop kids from accessing porn and stop underage people from being in porn.
So I don’t think anybody wants kids to access porn or kids or underage kids to be, you know, in adult, unless they’re very sick people and the mainstream adult world doesn’t deal with those people. So it might, as a parent, this must be a bit of a crusade for you.
Speaker 2 (15m 35s): It’s interesting. When you look at the UK, there is often a conversation amongst the education sector of the rape culture within schools. And that is primarily come about by the easy access to pornography. I mean, Bruce, I might be showing my age here, but when I was growing up, I thought there were perhaps in fact, not just as I was growing up in my later years, I thought there were maybe two or three porn sites.
And that’s it, there’s a lot of
Speaker 1 (16m 7s): People who still think that
Speaker 2 (16m 9s): I’ve, I’ve about 17 year old son, educate me on different sites that I thought didn’t exist.
Speaker 1 (16m 15s): Excellent. Excellent.
Speaker 2 (16m 16s): So, so I think it is interesting how, how easy it is to get access to it. Sure. I, I do. I do think, and I totally agree with you what person in their say in mind would want to place children at harm and put them on a porn site. Sure. A it’s going to negatively impact their business as we know it’s happened. So therefore, why would they even consider doing that? Right. The problem is, as you know, is your unscrupulous individuals who are doing this type of thing. So this is, and again, this leads very much into what we do, which is, it’s less about trying to avoid those negative content uploads from taking place.
Right. But more but more so protecting their business to make sure it never happens. So their business continues to thrive. Yeah. Right. It was, I was at the conference in Vegas a few weeks ago. And again, what you’ve just said was mimicked at that conference, which is compliance is important. Yes. The whole MasterCard rules are annoying, but everyone agreed, you know, if this is what needs to take place in order to protect our businesses from the unscrupulous and let’s just do it, right.
Speaker 1 (17m 36s): Yeah, yeah. No, there’s no two ways about it. So let’s just say that I’m in a country that requires age verification. There are some now, and I go to a site that employs your company to do age verification. Tell me a little bit about the process. I go on the website. I go to buy what happens then?
Speaker 2 (17m 57s): So typically what will happen is we’ll go through a form of what we call age estimation. So the very far, my age product is highly geared towards a frictionless easy experience for the user. So the way we do that is we use our tech. We’d ask someone to stare into the camera and our technology will give an estimation of age and interesting that very, and that barrier can be set from high to low Bruce.
We, we have some countries that say, right, we want a minimum of 25 so that if anyone gets through that age estimation, we can be absolutely certain. They are 18 years and above. Okay. And then others toggle that down to the age of 21. Right. But the technology is highly sophisticated. It, it has been built over years to get as close to the age as possible. There’s and what I mean by that is the age estimation will give a potential difference or between one to one and a half years.
Yeah. So it’s important that the top set correctly. So that’s the one way to do it. The other way is we have developed a number of other methods. So if the age estimation, for example fails, we then allow the user to choose another method that could be identity document gets held up to the camera and that gets read. It could be an email address. So we can actually identify when an email was taken out or how often it is utilized. So that gives us an idea that if someone took out an email account 15 years ago, we can make a reasonable assumption there over the years of 18 or 21 dependent on which territory they they’re
Speaker 1 (19m 42s): In. No, that’s interesting. Wow. Wow. Interesting stuff. So, and I would imagine the camera technology is all using AI.
Speaker 2 (19m 49s): Absolutely. A hundred percent AI. Interesting. When we, when we look to and we’ll touch on very far more content, I’m sure we then also leverage human individuals if there’s a borderline case. Yeah. Cause I think, I think the, the, the content world is a little different. We need to be a little more sophisticated because we talking about revenues, we talking about business businesses trying to make an income. So we use a more sophisticated suite of tech there to ensure that the uploader of the content is who they are, who they say they are and they meet all of that rigs.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. It’s the technology is just incredible on how it’s developing.
Speaker 1 (20m 30s): Sounds like it, it sounds like it. So what exactly do you do in your position,
Speaker 2 (20m 35s): Bruce? We just, well, for me, it’s just about ready safeguarding a company’s revenue. That that’s my core business goal. So we work or I work with many businesses who, who may not be compliant in, in different forms. Right. They may, they may do some things associated to, for example, 2 25, 7, and there might be others that think that they are doing all the right things. And, and my core function really is to work with those businesses, solve those issues, but in doing so, it’s very much for us about building a long term partnership.
You know, we, we don’t see ourselves as, as a supplier of technology. We are not a supplier. We are a partner. So, and that for me has a very long reaching description from, you know, we help, if we need to lobby governments, we help lobby for example, MasterCard. And we try to pull everything we can out of those organizations. So we can help the businesses we work with understand what’s actually required. Cause often the regulator will say something, no one knows what it means though.
And we, we then have to come back and try, they have their own language. What exactly. Yeah. What exactly are they referring to here? Because we don’t get it.
Speaker 1 (21m 58s): I love it. So what, what motivates you to do what you do for your clients?
Speaker 2 (22m 5s): I think it’s that I love solving those problems. You know, Bruce often, often businesses will look at regulation as a massive barrier to doing business. Yes. And almost, almost off putting to a certain extent. And I think when myself and my team, you know, lift the hood and we get in there and we can show businesses that it’s not as scary or as interrupting as what they think it’s going to be, we can help them thrive.
And, and that’s what motivates us.
Speaker 1 (22m 37s): Nice. So let’s talk more about the verify, my content product. So that’s the new one. How did that come about?
Speaker 2 (22m 46s): So I mean, this for me is a very, very exciting product and development. So as we were touching on earlier age verification has its place in the marketplace. We, we see it, we see it developing at different speeds across the globe. So we, we have it in France at the minute and we know Germany or putting in play. And the, and the UK dare say have come out again, say in 20, 23, they’re gonna implement it.
Speaker 1 (23m 17s): We’ll
Speaker 2 (23m 20s): What we know now is the fact that MasterCard came out with a change to, to their rules means that it’s having an impact on porn sites today and something needs to be done today. And absolutely we, so, so we developed the very far my age product to allow us to provide adult entertainment businesses with a one API that satisfies all of those requirements for MasterCard.
Our, our focus was about saying to these businesses, don’t be afraid of this regulation it’s to stay first and foremost. So we have a very simple means for you to get on the right side of this regulation. And if, and you know, if they, if they don’t, we, we have another scenario like we had with some of the other large sites that were shut off and we see that just going to continue unless something real can get done about
Speaker 1 (24m 23s): Sadly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24m 24s): The, yeah. The requirements that, that MasterCard are setting out.
Speaker 1 (24m 27s): Yeah. So tell me more about verify my content and how is it beneficial for both content creators and the platforms?
Speaker 2 (24m 37s): Sure. So I think above all the verify, my content product is about having peace of mind, both from a, a merchant, a site that’s allowing content to be uploaded as well as your content creator. Who’s the entrepreneur, the business owner very far. My content is designed to ensure that the content is been uploaded by a verified individual. We do that by using AI to check ID documents, to make sure that they are real ID documents.
And we then use AI to cross-check a facial selfie or video against that document. Wow. We then go one step further and allow the content created to verify participants that they may have in their content. So all of those risks are therefore removed. You know, we, we, we help get rid of that, that I guess the risk of revenge porn or SP cams, because if those individuals are not verified, then the content can’t be uploaded.
Right. And then what we also do is we moderate the content. So we will use our, our own development of, of AI algorithms to ensure that the content itself meets all the requirements. So there’s no children involved in it. And if there is, you know, we, we flag that for someone to look at. So we’ve got a human moderator who will also look at that and go, Nope, that’s fine. We can let it go. And, and all of this is then wrapped up with a very sophisticated reporting tool.
So if MasterCard or an acquiring bank came to a merchant and said, right, we’ve got a report of, of child pornography on your site, how did that get, how did it get through the barriers? They were able to run a report and show exactly what has taken place
Speaker 1 (26m 34s): Interesting.
Speaker 2 (26m 35s): And, and all of this too, is backed up with our own very unique form of insurance, which also helps bring a bit more credibility and that piece of mind to, to content creators.
Speaker 1 (26m 49s): Yeah. And MasterCard knows you, right. You guys have worked with them in delivering all this, right.
Speaker 2 (26m 54s): Absolutely. Yeah. So they’ve been fantastic in giving us real life feedback. You know, we, we went off and built our first version of this and, and the guys had MasterCard actually openly said, you’ve gone too far. You don’t have to do what you’ve just suggested by that’s that’s overkill. So we, we thought, so we were like, that’s fantastic. Let’s build back a bit. Yeah. Which, which we’ve done, but what we also know, you know, when you look at history and you look at regulation, it’s only going to develop and get more regulated.
Yeah. So we understand that. So, so we’ve built certain, I guess, points within our technology that allows us to extend the type of, of, of, I guess, verification that we’re currently doing. But when, when you think very far more content, Bruce, we look at really three things. It’s, it’s one ID verification, number two, participant verification, number three, content moderation all under one roof. So when you look at many providers today, they have to pull those resources from different places.
Right. Right. And what we are offering is, is, is essentially a one stop shop. That’s got everything for you.
Speaker 1 (28m 8s): So what you’re saying is that when the Mo when the regulators decide, they’re going to put more rules on, you can ramp your solution back up to where it was when they said you overdid it.
Speaker 2 (28m 21s): Yes, exactly. That, wow. That’s awesome. Exactly. That awesome.
Speaker 1 (28m 24s): Yeah. And they will, and they will
Speaker 2 (28m 27s): Instead. Oh, yes.
Speaker 1 (28m 28s): Yeah. The one thing I can always count on is more regulation around the corner. No two ways about it. Now aren’t many of these MasterCard requirements already covered by 2, 2, 5, 7.
Speaker 2 (28m 39s): I think they are. I think what we see is I guess, a change in the type of content that gets uploaded, which 2, 2, 5, 7 may not necessarily bring under it’s umbrella, but I do think you’re right. I think if all websites adhere to 2, 2, 2, 2, 5, 7 regs, right? Then you, you would be able to tick a box, but, but let me give you some quick stats on this. So in fact, in fact, what, what we see at the minute, if you look at your fan sites or your user generated content sites and, and the absolute ease of anyone setting up an accountant, turning on their phone and recording a form of, of sexual or explicit content, right.
That can upload it with ease. No problem. 2, 2, 5, 7, doesn’t even seem to, to, to, to come into play because that’s what’s happening today. So when you look at your, your, your fan sites or your live cam sites or your pay sites, that’s what we see, but has some, has some quick stats for you that I can’t tell you where these have come from just yet. Cuz we, we put in a paper together on this, but interesting. We took, we took the top 40 adult entertainment sites that are out there. And we did a cross section from tube sites to cam sites to fan and, and fan sites.
And this, this is why our product is so needed because the other stats, 85% of those sites accepted a form of fraudulent ID. Oh yes. Okay. ID which anyone who looked at it would go, that’s not a real ID document. Okay. 74% allowed for illegal content and illegal content. Bruce for me is videos with children in it, not necessarily sexual sexually active children or any form of nudity, but children.
Right? Oh geez. And then 88% of these sites have never responded to a report of abuse or a complaint. Wow. Nothing’s happened.
Speaker 1 (30m 41s): Can I ask, can I ask you a question? I mean, how, how did you get all this information? I mean, I doubt the sites are telling you are showing you their IDs.
Speaker 2 (30m 52s): So a lot of this work and effort was done through actual market research. So actual testing, so real live people, setting up accounts, loading these documents, got it. Going through, going through the actual experience that a, a user would take or go through.
Speaker 1 (31m 10s): Interesting. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (31m 12s): So it’s, it’s so it’s key. It’s key. And, and, and, and it’s this type of research, it’s this type of concerns that needs to be plugged now, all, all of these sites we obviously speaking with and we’re gonna be discussing things with them. Right. But if all of them deployed a single solution like ours, all of that goes to zero.
Speaker 1 (31m 34s): Yeah. Yeah. Well what a can of worms that is though my God, that’s just, yes. That’s just frigging crazy interesting when that gets released. So why do you think it’s important for adult sites to select the right partner when it comes to compliance?
Speaker 2 (31m 51s): Yeah. I think this is critical, you know, Bruce, because the reputation of the site, the financial security of that site is in the hands of that partner. So yep. If you take a, you take our product. For example, if, if we use inferior technology, we will be declining more people that are trying to sign up to that site. So choosing the wrong partner is gonna have a massive impact on that. So, and I mentioned this earlier, the, the whole point of a partnership is that it’s not a supplier led partnership.
It is a joint partnership to succeed. So, you know, if I can produce a technology that that’s at its peak, that’s doing everything it needs to do. That doesn’t mean it will approve everyone. If it fails someone it’s doing it for a reason.
Speaker 1 (32m 41s): That’s like, like credit cards, like credit cards, you, you exactly. Yeah. You reject, you know, the, your PSPS reject people normally because of fraud.
Speaker 2 (32m 51s): Yeah. And, and that’s, and that’s a perfect actually example, Bruce, what we do here is getting rid of those, those guys, those firms, those companies, those content creators that are going to have a negative impact on the business. We are there to step in and get rid of those guys so that the business can, that’s awesome. Continue to develop.
Speaker 1 (33m 11s): That’s completely awesome. So now we agree more regulations coming. You said it, I said it, it’s not hard to figure out where do you think it’ll be focused?
Speaker 2 (33m 20s): Well, you know, I think, I think probably at the moment, it kind of, you kind of get the sense that it’s the, the payment providers that are becoming our defacto global regulators. You know, the, the threat of payment restrictions is gonna hurt people unless they sort sort out their businesses reputation’s critical. So any illegal content is gonna be a problem. AV age verification for users. There’s no doubt that’s coming. No doubt at all. Sure, sure. But I also have a very strong suspicion, Bruce, there’ll be more regulation around live cams and live streaming.
I think that is. And that’s, that’s a good,
Speaker 1 (34m 1s): Do you know this? Do you know this for a fact?
Speaker 2 (34m 3s): No, not, no. I just think it’s a more, a very strong gut feeling of, of how from our own market research where we see quite a few gaps.
Speaker 1 (34m 14s): Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34m 14s): We, we, we think potentially that could be an area that that could be focused on, but I think the, the next big disruption around regulation will definitely be end of this year, potentially start of next year with, with age verification for users.
Speaker 1 (34m 32s): Oh, there’s no two, no two ways around that.
Speaker 2 (34m 33s): And you know, that doesn’t have to be too much of a worry for sites because it, it should be equitable that by that stage, you know, Bruce can be just the top five sites who, who the friendship selected to, to ban, right. And then, and everyone else continue as, as you want. Right. I think we get into a position where everyone’s gonna be in a level playing field. And if that’s the case, there’s technology out there to help them
Speaker 1 (35m 0s): Look. If they, if somebody’s breaking the rules, if somebody’s one of the bad guys, I, I have no problem taking them offline. I, I think it’s great. I think if somebody’s showing kids, I, I think if, if somebody’s letting kids look at porn and, and the governments get wind of it, get rid of them, agree with that. Yep.
Speaker 2 (35m 21s): And
Speaker 1 (35m 21s): Completely,
Speaker 2 (35m 22s): I think, and I think 99% of everyone in this industry believes and, and, and believes that’s the right thing to do as well. Sure. Which is why it’s just about catching those, let’s call it the 1% that are, are buggering things up for everyone else.
Speaker 1 (35m 39s): Yeah. But why do you have such a, such a strong suspicion about cams and what’s your, your gut tell you that’s gonna happen?
Speaker 2 (35m 47s): And to be clear, this is a personal gut feeling of mine. We
Speaker 1 (35m 51s): Get, I
Speaker 2 (35m 52s): Get that. Good. Good. I just think it is very easy to go onto a live cam broadcast with, with very little moderation attached to it. I do think part of the MasterCard rules are trying to plug that gap by ensuring merchants have access to the site to right, to stop the broadcast as well as to put some form of AI in place to, to monitor the feeds. I think it’s a complicated challenge because there are so many facets attached to it from different forms of technology to what are the, the different rules for different cam sites.
You know, other words, who can be on camera, who cannot, I guess that’s one of the biggest challenges today as well. You know, Bruce is you have cam model setting up accounts, 99.9% are doing everything they should be doing. But then you have a small percentage where the, the cam model on camera is, is not actually the account holder who set up the account. So if they were verified before, that’s not the person that’s actually behind the camera, it’s very true. And, and it’s that risk for the business that gets them shut down.
Huge. So, and, and again, it’s that small percentage that are, are just, and then you ask the question, why is that happening? Who’s doing that, or what are the reasons for it? And so are you,
Speaker 1 (37m 17s): Are you, are you suggesting that at a certain point, there’s gonna be regulation. That’s gonna require a, the cam model to be verified every time they go on cam.
Speaker 2 (37m 28s): Sure, absolutely. Yeah. Wow. And, and, and we, and we, and we have this tech already, so that’s huge. So if you consider, if you were a cam model, if you’re a care model, Bruce, and yeah. You’re about to, and you were about to start your broadcast, you’re obviously staring into your camera, right? Yes. Our technology effortlessly will be able to go, yes, that’s Bruce. Let the broadcast continue within seconds.
Speaker 1 (37m 55s): Yeah. You meant within, right.
Speaker 2 (37m 57s): So
Speaker 1 (37m 58s): It’ll be a boom for you guys for sure.
Speaker 2 (38m 1s): And I, and I think it’s, it’s a good safeguard for the
Speaker 1 (38m 4s): Industry. Are you selling stock,
Speaker 2 (38m 8s): Jump in Bruce, jump in.
Speaker 1 (38m 10s): I shall, I shall. How do you think regulation and compliance has already impacted the industry
Speaker 2 (38m 18s): To be fair? You know, I think a lot of that has removed a lot of the unscrupulous. No doubt. I think there’s, there’s the more sophisticated individual who will find his way around all of these checks. If they, if they held bent on, on doing it, they will. Yeah. I think, I think if anything, the regulation is focused the minds more in this industry on compliance. So those sites that are doing all the right things have had to up their a bit more to do more compliant.
And I think that’s frustrating for them, but I do believe as many do that regulation can only and regulation with the right guidance. And that’s the key thing I want to get across Bruce. It’s all very well coming out with regulation or changing standards, but further guidance is required for everyone to understand what that means. And we’re seeing that coming through. Now, a lot of it due to my team’s work with MasterCard and regulators, to understand what exactly is required.
And I think regulation and compliance can only have a positive impact on the business. I think what it will do is ensure those who are focused on growing their businesses will thrive. And those that are, are trying to do the things they shouldn’t be doing are gonna be knocked out all together.
Speaker 1 (39m 42s): That’s awesome. Yeah. And let’s face it. Okay. In any situation, people who break the rules hurt the people who follow the rules.
Speaker 2 (39m 51s): Absolutely. Absolutely. In any, and that’s in any you’re right. That’s in any sector that’s in any business. Yep.
Speaker 1 (39m 59s): Yep. That’s
Speaker 2 (39m 60s): Life.
Speaker 1 (40m 0s): That’s life. My friend that’s in life.
Speaker 2 (40m 3s): Exactly. I say to my son, when you had a very tough rugby match on the weekend and in rugby, I guess any sport, you always try to press the rules to the limit to see what you can get away with.
Speaker 1 (40m 15s): Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40m 15s): And, and as I, I gave my son a bit of a lesson in risk management and I said, well, if you’re gonna, if, if you’re gonna take that approach close to your goal line, consider the risk. The risk will be, you get caught and they end up scoring against you and you go down. Yeah. If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna do that, you either gotta be really good at it. So you never get caught or accept the fact that if you’re gonna do it, there’s a consequence.
Speaker 1 (40m 41s): Always, always consequences in life. My friend, there are always consequences. Well, Hey, Gavin, I like to thank you for being our guest today on adult slate, broker talk. And I know down the road, we’ll have more to talk about.
Speaker 2 (40m 55s): Absolutely. Bruce, thank you for having me much appreciated.
Speaker 1 (40m 58s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both you and the seller have signed an agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit, if you’re gonna be making payments, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets that can be put into escrow.
Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend escrow domains for escrows. They’re a firm out of Washington, DC, and no, they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them. Trust them and am delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a custom escrow, or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of a few days or an inspection period is allowed.
It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period really depends on whether there’s still some information you need to find out prior to the deal being closed. Your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this. And it’s on a case by case basis. Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with a transition, or is at least available on an on-call basis to answer questions.
This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point, you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be speaking with Michael Ramos of ASN entertainment. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest Gavin Worrall. Talk to you again next week on adult site broker talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

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