Adult Site Broker Talk Episode 132 With Jay Moyes Of High Octane Heart Media And PR

Adult Site Broker Talk Episode 132 With Jay Moyes Of High Octane Heart Media And PR

Jay Moyes of High-Octane Heart Media and PR is this week’s guest on Adult Site Broker Talk.

Jay formerly spent years with AVN and before High Octane had Black and Blue Media with the late Sherry Ziegelmeyer.

His clients include BDSM shop The Dungeon Store and the kinky franchises of Mistress Cyan like Sanctuary LAX and DomCon.

You can contact Jay on his website at

Bruce, host of the show and CEO of Adult Site Broker said: “Jay is a longtime member of the adult community and was a fascinating guest. I’m sure you’ll enjoy our chat.”

Adult Site Broker helps sellers and buyers in the adult space get together to work out equitable deals. Check out their brand-new website at For more information or to find out how to sell or buy a website go to They have an affiliate program, ASB Cash,, that now pays 20% of their broker commission on all referred deals closed.

Bruce F., host of the show and CEO of Adult Site Broker said:

Jay is a longtime member of the adult community and was a fascinating guest. I’m sure you’ll enjoy our chat.


1 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we'll be speaking with Jay Moyes of High Octane Heart Media and pr. Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website, adult Site Broker 3.0 The look and feel of the new site is nice and up to date and easier to navigate. The new site also has links to our affiliate program, ASB Cash, and our new blog.

1 (53s):
Speaking of ASB Cash, we've doubled our affiliate payouts. That's right. Now when you refer buyers or sellers to us at Adult Site Broker, you'll receive 20% of our broker commission on any and all sales that result from that referral for life. You can either place a link to us on your site or refer buyers and sellers through an email introduction. ASB Cash is the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage. Check out for more details and to sign up. Now let's feature our property of the week that's for sale at Adult Site Broker. We're proud to offer a successful gay site that has increased revenues and profits year over year for a decade.

1 (1m 37s):
The site has 835 active members. The best part about the site is that it basically runs itself. The director producer is happy to continue handling all the content, production, editing, and updates. All you have to do is to continue to take care of payroll and you'll make your complete return on your investment safely and quickly. The content is hardcore gay porn with a strategic focus on a few niches, which have been fine tuned for over 10 years into dependable, underserved markets. All of the content is exclusive with an influx of cash and a dedicated team to help grow the brand. There's a lot of opportunity.

1 (2m 18s):
Some of the content is on D V D and V O D, but there's a huge opportunity to increase V O D revenue streams. Best of all, if the buyer doesn't change anything, it'll continue and make a significant profit only $440,000. Now time for this week's interview. My guest today on Adult Say, broker Talk is J Moise of High Octane Heart Media and pr. Jay, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker talk.

2 (2m 49s):
It's a pleasure. Thank you so much.

1 (2m 51s):
It's a pleasure to finally have you. Jay, besides his PR company, is also an artist specializing in fetish artwork. He's been a professional in the adult industry since the 1990s, beginning in San Francisco and then moving to Los Angeles forever. Why, I don't know. Anyway, in 1999, AVN brought in J to work in the Art and Archives Department, where he would eventually become production manager. Before moving on, Jay partnered with Sherry Ziegel Meier, I hope I'm saying that right, to create black and blue media, a publicity firm catering to adult businesses. And the pair did publicity for S L L A B, Michael n and Platinum, platinum Blue Productions.

1 (3m 35s):
Ziegel Meyer passed away, sadly from cancer in 2020, leaving Jay to close the firm and begin High Octane Heart Media. They specialize in working with small adult business. Current clients include the Dungeon Store, who you've heard on Adult Side Broker Talk, a curated collection of high-end B D S M gear, sl U S A, who you've also heard on adult side broker talk. I think I see a trend here, quite possibly the world's most powerful sex toy and kinky franchises of Mr. Cyan, like Sanctuary LAX and Dom Con. So Jay, in two minutes or less, who the heck are you?

2 (4m 11s):
Well, I'm a kinky artist who just happens to make a living an adult, mainly running a publicity business. Right. I've done odd jobs, worked for a dungeon fantasy makers up in the Bay Area Q sm. That was a BDSM bookstore. I worked for The Spectator. I worked when I came down here to La

1 (4m 37s):
Spectator. I haven't heard that

2 (4m 38s):
Name Lane

1 (4m 40s):
In 30, 40 years.

2 (4m 42s):
Oh, that was so much fun.

1 (4m 43s):
Are they gone now?

2 (4m 45s):
They are. They are. Catton Lane tried selling the company and somebody did buy it, but unfortunately the timing on it just wasn't right. It just, that was like right at the, because the thing is classified were what kept a, a mag like that in business. Yeah. And Craigslist. Between Craigslist and porn on the internet. Yeah. That just pretty much dried up everything. Yeah. And they, the thing is, is that when you run a news rack like that, you, you can't really give it away. Yeah. I mean, you're classified are really your profit. Yeah. But in terms of what they were doing, that little like 75 cents that you put in the box, that's actually what, what kept them in the black.

2 (5m 34s):
Ah, and with that gone, you know, they, they tried, like, they tried going online and a few things. Well, they, lane and Kat tried that. They found someone to take the reins and inject new blood, but they just, they tried keeping going for a little while and it just petered out.

1 (5m 54s):
Oh, that's a shame. Well, please con, please continue. So you, you were at the Spectator and then,

2 (5m 59s):
And I moved down to la I did some other stuff down here. I was an extra for some vivid video movies. Ah, and my, yep. I, I I, I've been in some pornos. Ah, excellent. And my big break came was avn. I wound up spending six years in the Avian art department. I like to call it my bachelor's degree in porn. Yeah. Learned a lot. And then Eddie Van Halen was dipping his toe into porn, and he recruited me to work for his new porn company. It was called Slab oh s Yeah. Balls fell backwards. He liked to do that. He'd take, you know, you know, he had another one.

2 (6m 40s):
Oh God, I can't, yes. Up Yes. Up, which is pussy spelled backwards and had some fun there. And with Sherry. Yeah. Our clients included Michael Nn Sky blue of Platinum Blue production. And so I've been around.

1 (6m 57s):
You have indeed. What was it like working with Eddie Ren Halen?

2 (7m 2s):
The one thing I'll admit right away, it sounds great to say, but it, you know, I, oh, you could write a book on that. No, actually it was great. It was inspiring. It was mind blowing. It panic conducing. I

1 (7m 23s):

2 (7m 24s):
But the, to be completely candid, it wasn't the best time. Okay. And part of it was he was dipping his toe into porn and he really didn't know what he was getting into. Sure. We could do like an entire show on that. And be honest, that's probably something that should be, my part in that chapter is actually very, very, very small.

1 (7m 49s):

2 (7m 50s):
I did artwork for Slab. I was a production manager, production assistant. I can't remember what we called the title. It was basically, Jay, I want you to come work for me. We'll set up something through my business manager. And, and so I worked with some, you know, I worked with a number of his people. And to end that chapter, so to speak, what eventually happened was he would talk about this network that he wanted to create, and he wanted this roster of, but he always fixated on Michael Nn. Sure. And so picked the best. Right? Yeah. And he would call me like at like three in the morning.

2 (8m 31s):
Hey, hey, you, you wake, we gotta talk. And this was not one of the, not one of his high points. Ah, things got better later. In my opinion. Janie was one of the best things that ever happened to him. His wife, who he met, she was, she was Michael N's publicist. Ah. And so what happened was, I'm like, look, you just really want Michael Nn to make movies for you, don't you? That's really it. Yeah. Yeah. That's, yeah. I'm like, you know, honestly, we should have just gotten down a brass tacks about that to begin with. And I called David over red light pictures n had been selling through Red Light.

2 (9m 16s):
They were the official distributor. I'm like, David, I know this is gonna sound crazy. Eddie Van Halen wants to speak with Michael Nn. This is not a joke. Let me give you, let me give you Eddie Van Halen's cell phone number. Please have Michael Nn call call Ed. And he did. And he's, he thought it was funny. He was like, actually, I live nearby. Alex, Alex is one of my neighbors. And it's like, yeah, I'll give him the number. Sure. And what wound up happening was Eddie. Yeah, Eddie met Michael and he did sacred sin.

2 (9m 57s):
And he kind of had a realization that he, he wanted to get out, you know, he did it. He hit the high water mark with sacred sin. That was good enough. And they kind of backdoored him out of the adult business. And Janie went with him. Yeah. And they, honestly, I told 'em outright cuz Janie was a stunt woman. I knew her as a stunt woman when she worked for Metro. And she worked for some other porn company because she had been a publicist. I was working at AVN in the art department long ago. But the thing is, is, you know, she also had been a professional stunt woman. And I, I joked with Eddie.

2 (10m 38s):
I like, you know, if you think you can, like, if, if you think you can like roughhouse her or such, you're gonna need Alex and a few other guys.

1 (10m 48s):
Funny, funny.

2 (10m 50s):
And as funny as it was, she whooped his ass in the shape. He, he cleaned up, he cut his hair, he got a whole bunch of other things done, and he moved forward. And I think that was, I think things would've been sadly different if it wasn't for her.

1 (11m 6s):
Yeah. It was quite a chore getting you on the podcast. Why is

2 (11m 11s):
That? I'm glad you asked

1 (11m 13s):
When I'm glad. I'm glad you're glad.

2 (11m 15s):
I'm glad you asked. When a publicist is getting more attention than the client, that is a red flag. Yeah.

1 (11m 24s):
You alluded to that.

2 (11m 25s):
My, my client's, the Dungeon store and SL came first. Yeah. We'll work on getting some people from Mr. Cens circle on the show soon. But the clients have to come first. I can wait and agree. Yeah. And also with Sherry's passing, she was on point. We kept certain things separate. Yeah. So when I started going through Sherry's stuff, I realized I had to, to shut this stuff down. Yeah. And, and start to rebuild. And this was strip, like, stripping a car down to the bare frame. It wasn't the intended metaphor for high octane heart. It was amazing how coincidences like that happen.

2 (12m 7s):
I wasn't going to be pushing my business if I couldn't even race in the game. It's like, there were, there were some moments where I'm like, you know, why would I go on the air if I'm not really all that? And so I had, I did have self-doubt, but it's like, you know,

1 (12m 26s):
You should, but you're damn good.

2 (12m 29s):
Thank you. Thank you. I tried,

1 (12m 30s):
I've recommended you. So you're very good at what, you're very good at what you do. Talk about the old days at avn. Boy. AV N'S undergone a lot of changes. Changes in ownership, changes in personnel. Talk about the old days with avn,

2 (12m 48s):
Old school porn. PR was about like, well in, sorry, I'm thinking adult. Adult and pr. But the old school adult industry that was obviously more vhs. D V D, A lot of the people are old school salespeople in that it's a Rolodex and a telephone and it's, you know, Hey, I, I got a new title out for you. You know, how many units can I sell you? And so like, old school pr you know, it was like sending out some sales kits, maybe a press release, maybe set up some interviews.

2 (13m 39s):
The way it is now, it's like you're no longer dealing with as much in print. Visual, visual media is still much, is still very, very important. Right. But you tend to like, have to wear a lot more hats now.

1 (13m 56s):

2 (13m 57s):
True. So the old days, it was like, it was, it was good enough to have like, okay, there's a few people. You've got a, you've got your main salesperson, you sell the videos, you collect on the videos, you've got a couple people in the warehouse. Now you've got these huge content companies. I mean, we would, we thought that Wicked and Vivid were monsters. We think of Hustler as this monster, this giant. Right. And I mean, the camming companies and the content, the, I, I don't even know, you know,

1 (14m 36s):
Fan sites, clip sites.

2 (14m 38s):
Exactly. The Yeah. Premium social media. Yeah. Like only fans. Yeah. You know, this stuff is, those are monsters because

1 (14m 48s):
Big money. Yeah.

2 (14m 49s):
Yeah. You know, it's like, you're thinking in terms of, in terms of porn, you were thinking about like thousands and maybe a million or two because of the internet of things in the world, you really are talking about millions of people. Oh yeah. That influence everything that's going on.

1 (15m 10s):
Oh yeah. When you hear about creators making 40, 50 million, you don't have to use your imagination too much and do some multiplication to realize that it's a ton of money.

2 (15m 24s):
And it's scary because this also means a lot of infrastructure. This means, whereas like av, we had, we had stalkers and such at avn. You know, we'd get weird letters. I remember I, my desk at AVN was, that was where the receptionist threw the phone calls. She didn't know what to deal with. Like, I, I literally had a guy, I've wondered if this was someone calling from a radio station as a joke. He was trying to sell his video and he wanted to sell and become a porn star. And all it was was him having sex with a blowup doll.

1 (16m 4s):
Oh geez.

2 (16m 5s):
And he thought he was gonna make a

1 (16m 6s):
Money. But you, but you know what, what's funny about that is there's, there's, there's so many niches. I'm sure there would, there are people who would buy that.

2 (16m 14s):
Well in, in those, you know, maybe one or two. Like, maybe he could walk into a, a video store and go, Hey, hey, would you sell my video? Yeah. But like, I mean the, well, let's face it, that's now he could be on 10 different platforms. Yeah. And he could be very disgruntled if it wasn't doing anything. And then basically like pounding on the door with like a hundred other people on these platforms going, why aren't you doing more for me? Why are these other people placing more than I am? Yeah. Because people

1 (16m 51s):
Are shit dumb, dumb shit.

2 (16m 54s):
Or his fa or the fans can do rad weird things too. And it's like, that's what's blowing my mind. It's like, it's crazy. I see some of this stuff over in the big picture and I'm like, this is, this is, this can be really, really intimidating. It's like, whereas before it's like, you know, if somebody paid me enough, I'd put the name of the client on the side of my car. You know, it's like, you pay me enough, my next cat is named after your product.

1 (17m 22s):
There you go.

2 (17m 24s):
And now it's like, some of these, it's like, you know what I, you know, my initial thought was, yeah, you know, we'll blow it up this set and the other, there's others. It's like, it's really clear. It's like, I don't know who's gonna show up on my doorstep with, with this client or that client. Yeah. And they've made that clear to me too. It's like, you know, it's the, you know, it's like, no, this is for your own good.

1 (17m 50s):
Indeed. What do you actually do as a publicist in the adult industry?

2 (17m 56s):
The main thing I do is I write and send out press releases. I coordinate that with social media. So when the press release goes out, I try to make sure in some way or form that we are, the press release goes out it places on a website. That website gets acknowledged on social media and the ideas from there that sends love back to the platforms. The Sure. The AVMs the ex business, but also the other, you know, the others aside from the big three AV and X biz. And why not? Right. And then we try and keep 'em as much momentum as possible to where not only do the regular public kind of keep an eye on this and see this going, but also the mainstream.

2 (18m 47s):
One of the things that I get asked is, well, how do I get into mainstream? And part of it is, if you've got enough money you can place in, you might actually, lemme rephrase it. If you've got a lot of money you might be able to place in mainstream, you still have to be aware of when you, because there are wire services that will allow you to send out to something to mainstream. But it's no guarantee that a reporter is gonna see that and pick it up. That's true. That's the ideal. The ideal, the ideal is you get the attention of someone from like, rolling Stone, c bs, mainstream, big and small, the radio, you know, try to think of the, try to think of the news stations up in San Francisco back in the day.

1 (19m 31s):

2 (19m 32s):
Yes, exactly.

1 (19m 34s):
My friend, my friend I think is still Stan Bunger, I think is still the Morning Drive news host there.

2 (19m 41s):
Oh wow.

1 (19m 42s):
Oh, we went to college together at SF State. I'm not sure if Stan didn't retire. I don't recall. But he, last time I heard, had been the anchor there forever. He took a little bit of a break and went to Dallas for some strange reason and then came back. So, in fact, funny story, I was sitting in with him in Dallas. Cause I was down there for a football game and I was sitting in the studio with him the day that the Lorena and John Bobbi decision came down from the court on what to charge her with.

2 (20m 14s):
Oh my God.

1 (20m 15s):
There wasn't a drug in the place that was the same. Oh my God. That was the same day that Jimmy Johnson predicted a victory against the 49ers. And unfortunately he was so Right. But anyway, continue. What do you continue with what you do?

2 (20m 30s):
So that is, that is part of the holy grail is to, to get that placed in, in so to get that placed by the mainstream, keep the awareness out. Build the brand. Sure. And so the thing is, is like, and this is where some of the nuances come in of like, okay, so if you are going to send out through a wire service, it has to be very carefully worded. You usually have to keep it much shorter. Yes. You have to be aware that your press release is probably not going to get published. Especially not by the people you're, you want it to go to, in that case, the release is very specifically to have that reporter, writer, blogger, producer.

2 (21m 16s):
Very important. You know, a lot of people think that the news anchors are the ones that do, are the ones that are in charge. It's like hardly, you know, you're producer director. Yes. So you want those people to, you know, those are the ones that are gonna make the call and go, Hey, get this person in the studio. Get this person on the phone, get this person an email, go interview. And so there's differences in how you write the press releases. Hmm. With the adult press, they're usually publishing your press release right. Back again to history and such. We can thank Kevin Moore for that because he started a thing called stunning back in the early aughts.

2 (22m 3s):
Hmm. And all he did was he would just copy and paste press releases. Hmm. And so, and other people followed Sue. It was a lot, you know. Okay. The press release came in, copy paste, done. Well then you've gotta change how that press release is done. Yeah. Because, you know, typically old school press releases, your press release could be one sentence long or two sentences long. Right. As long as I had a hook. Yeah. Now it's like, oh shoot, how do I flesh this out? We'll

1 (22m 36s):
See how, we'll see how you like my press release when I do the one for this podcast.

2 (22m 41s):

1 (22m 42s):
I've got my own style. But I, I understand what you're saying. So how is PR different from actual marketing in your view?

2 (22m 53s):
Marketing for starters is a really, really broad term. Right. I mean, you know, it's like there are all sorts of people. Like I'm in marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing.

1 (23m 2s):
Don't even tell me because, you know, I have marketing company too. So, you know, I know, yeah. I know the answer, but I want to hear your, I want to hear your take on it, which I'm sure is the same as mine.

2 (23m 12s):
Well, typically it's sales

1 (23m 15s):

2 (23m 15s):
Lot of times and, and advertising. Right. And publicists should be working in conjunction with that. Yeah. Sometimes it's exclusively multi-level marketing. Hmm. You know, there's, there's things like commissions involved. It's marketing's usually very, very focused on return on investment. Right. Publicity, you're really looking more at eyes and building brands. There's more mojo and hudu in magic in terms of what publicity does. And one does not translate necessarily like a good publicity campaign. We have to be careful because it doesn't necessarily translate into dollars.

1 (23m 54s):
Yeah, that's true.

2 (23m 55s):
That's a really hard thing to gauge.

1 (23m 57s):
Well, no, the idea, the idea of a publicity campaign generally is to generate eyes, to get, to get people to see it

2 (24m 5s):
And build your brand. Well

1 (24m 7s):
Yeah, of course. Of course. You know, the way I, the way I look at marketing and pr I look at marketing. First of all, marketing is not sales. And, and, and it never was. And it never, never will be. Marketing supports sales, marketing causes sales basically causes leads that get turned into sales. And PR is simply a part of an overall marketing plan. And pr and social media should not be your, your entire marketing plan. Your marketing plan should be multifaceted and include many aspects. Although in some cases, PR and social media can be a damn large chunk of

2 (24m 49s):
It. Well also, and they, in terms of marketing and sales, you know, they need to play together with the publicist. Publicist should at least acknowledge and be aware of what marketing is doing and be able to act on the team what

1 (25m 6s):
Marketing is doing or what Mar marketing's doing, or what sales is doing.

2 (25m 10s):
Well in this case, what marketing is doing more specifically. Okay. The advertising departments and their marketing strategy. Okay. And the, there's, there's something that I need to bring up here too is that there's a thing out there where some publications are paid to play.

1 (25m 26s):

2 (25m 27s):
So if you wannabe be

1 (25m 28s):
Published, Forbes says that ak,

2 (25m 31s):
I believe it Juxtaposed magazine, LA Weekly Village Voice. Oh yeah, yeah. You really, really wanna get their attention. Same

1 (25m 38s):
Owner. Yeah.

2 (25m 39s):
You, you go in through the sales Yes. And a client done. Yeah. Yeah. You can't assume that the sales department is going to jerk on editorial's chain and go, Hey, you gotta cover this. But

1 (25m 55s):

2 (25m 57s):
Ger had a a saying in, in in, if you don't grease the wheels, the cart won't go. So true. And so back to radio, I had a thing where we reached out to, for Dom Con New Orleans, Mr. Cyan, we reached out to the radio stations in New Orleans and I'm like, this is a complete shot in the dark. I am reaching out to basically anyone who will listen. And the alt 92 3 in New Orleans, someone in there, like in the sales department picked up that, that that little press release with a, Hey, I know this is not what you're, you know, you're thing, but we wanted to keep you in the loop as to this is what's going on.

2 (26m 48s):
And they laughed their fucking ass off. Hmm. And they went, you've gotta show this to Thomas.

1 (26m 56s):

2 (26m 56s):
Give the, go over there and give this. You've got to, ed Thomas calls me, which is who? And he's, he was one of their sales guys. Oh, okay. And he's ac he was actually semi-retired at this point. And he would do things like, he would like fill in on segments, help out, you know, he would be on the air sometimes Okay. Providing color commentary, this, that and the other. And he sees that and he's like, oh yeah. Oh yeah, we're good. Oh yeah. And he just like, he, he's like, gimme the freaking phone. Gimme the phone. And so we, it, we worked out, you know, it's like, look, we're low budget, we don't have a lot to spend. Right. And he is like, I can guarantee you this, that, and the other.

2 (27m 37s):
And what I did was, instead of just going, Hey, we wanna buy some advertising, they were like, we can set you up with, we can set you up with X amount of ad space for here. Right. I'm go, that sounds great. What I want. Yes. Let's do that. I want to get the dominatrix's in the studio. Love it on the air. Even if it's like Saturday night or Friday night. Even if it, even if it's a recording, especially.

1 (28m 8s):

2 (28m 9s):
We were on at least three nights.

1 (28m 12s):

2 (28m 12s):
Awesome. Like, I mean, and, and things are a little different in radio than they used to be, but we, we weren't there. I'll put it this way. We weren't there for the entire eight hours of shift, but boy, howdy. We got that covered.

1 (28m 26s):
That's nice. That's being in radio. Being in radio. I can imagine it. And for everyone who wonders about radio and the old TV show, W K R P, it ain't that different. At least it wasn't in those days. So what has been the big game changer in the industry since you left? Avn?

2 (28m 44s):
D V D is out, novelty and online platforms are in, and we've gotta be ready for that to change. Hmm. There's a lot more work to do in social media. Yeah. It's very, very time consuming. Posting, following up, sharing the graphics are a little easier these days because most stuff is web-based, but high definition is pushing that like, right. It used to be like with AVN you could get away with like, okay, six 40 by four 80 and now they're sizing up to like, I'm trying to remember the size of their graphic, but it's something like 10 80.

2 (29m 29s):
Hmm. And that fits in conjunction, you know, we, you know, people, oh, 10 80, that's, that's high definition. And it's like, yeah. But when you're working in print and you were working in 300 D p I and it's like, yeah. Now we're going over people's heads here. Yeah. When you're, when you're talking about high res, you were talking about files that were like, you needed to do, you needed, like, you, you, you needed high speed internet for that or you needed to burn that to a cd. Right. Or put it on a, I mean, I remember it's like, okay, we'll send you a jump drive, but you have to

1 (30m 4s):
Send it down. Yeah. I mean, printed has to be a lot higher quality.

2 (30m 7s):
Yeah. But the, they are starting to edge up because the resolutions are getting better. The cell phones are getting clearer.

1 (30m 17s):
Sure. Speeds are going up. Yeah.

2 (30m 19s):
Speeds are going up.

1 (30m 21s):
I've got gig, I've got, I've got gig internet here in Thailand. So,

2 (30m 25s):
And so the, the, the big one of the things is you have to be ready to learn new tech and new media. Sure. I do graphics cuz I, I started from the art side. I started from the art department side, but I've also had to on the fly, you know, do some video editing. I've done coding. We've been waiting for 3D to catch fire, you know, but virtual has come in. Oculus is a thing, you know, it's just a matter of when that becomes the only thing, or it's just a matter of time of how that gets integrated as the media in terms of Right.

2 (31m 6s):
Like, okay, grandpa, here's your headset. I wanted to watch tv. We don't have a TV anymore, dad. This is Yeah.

1 (31m 13s):
I have trouble believing that's gonna happen anytime in the, in the near future, however, but hey, you never know. We'd also didn't imagine we'd have these computers in our, these high speed comp, high speed and high quality computers in our hands either. So who the hell knows. Right.

2 (31m 30s):
And I, I had a th like for years people would see me drawing and they would go, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're obsolete. You're, you're done. You're toast. You know, you, you, you're, you know, it's, it's all digital, it's all graph. And they were telling me this in like 94 and I'm like, look, they're not gonna replace what I do for artwork until I have a tablet in my hand with a stylist that I can do this right here and now.

1 (32m 3s):

2 (32m 4s):
And that time is now.

1 (32m 5s):

2 (32m 5s):
Yeah. Of course. So, and, and I've, I've now got my little iPhone. I haven't got an iPad yet, but I'm Oh, wow. You know, that's on my mind for, you know. Sure. Like, that's next step. I'm just, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm like, I'm I'm still, I'm, I'm surrounded by electronics. Just old.

1 (32m 25s):
Oh, tell me about it. Yeah. Tell me about it. Me too. Oh God. Me too. In fact, my New Max arriving today, hopefully not during this interview. So what are the, what are the differences working with porn companies and camp companies?

2 (32m 39s):
Camming is much more corporate from what I've noticed. My buddy over at Roger Views had a major camming client and they wouldn't let

1 (32m 49s):
Him work. Yeah. He's, yeah. They, yeah, he's been on our, he's been on our podcast a couple times As or once and, and soon to be again actually. Yeah.

2 (32m 57s):
Roger is great. Yes he is. And he was ready to send out press releases. He's like, I'm ready to go. I've got this, I've got, and they were like, Nope. We'll let you know when we want you to send out something. You know, don't call us. We'll call you. And that's not how publicists work. When you're the publicist, you're always hustling for the client. It's not a don't call us, you'll call you kind of game. And yeah. Discretion is much more important because of just how many masses amount of people are involved. Yeah. Anyone working behind. Like, if somebody's saying that they work behind the scenes, they can become a target because it's like, Hey, can you get me un banned?

2 (33m 43s):
Hey, can you get me free this? Hey, can you do this? You know, can I do? And it's like, when I was at avn, it was like, Hey, can you get me into the Avian Awards? It's like, no, not really. Not unless you're my date. You know, it's like, that wasn't that many people, it's like there's so many people involved in camming and there's so many people involved in premium social media. Yep. When I worked at avn, it was kind of a big deal that we were like, I think we had like kissed 100 people, but not, I don't think we had actually reached that number. Just working there in the office.

2 (34m 24s):
Yeah. I honestly, I never actually get to see how big the iceberg is on some of those companies. Like Hmm. Like, you know, we, you know, it's very easy to think of like only fans as like two or three guys.

1 (34m 38s):

2 (34m 38s):
But there's usually more corporate structure behind that in terms of tax.

1 (34m 45s):
Oh, massive. Massive.

2 (34m 46s):
Yeah. Just

1 (34m 47s):
Legal. Just legal a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

2 (34m 52s):

1 (34m 52s):
That's, it's a v moth. Let's face it mean. I know. And by the way, I happen to know one of the owners. But anyway.

2 (34m 57s):
Yeah. And by the way, this is one of when someone goes, you know, oh my gosh, YouTube screwed me. Or Oh my gosh, Twitter screwed me. There's some, there's some Instagram fucked me, there's some pissy, I bet there's some pissy guy in customer service that has it out for No,

1 (35m 15s):
No, it's ai.

2 (35m 17s):
It's the lawyers.

1 (35m 18s):
It's the lawyers. It's ai. And then it's a ai

2 (35m 21s):
Yeah. The, well the software kicks it off. Yeah. But the, the lawyers are the ones that look at that and go, you know, they're the, and and give the final say. So. Sure. And there's, you know, with YouTube, we're kind of lucky that they've got that strike system set up. But even then it's kind of like, well, why, why did this happen? Because there was a lawyer some somewhere that said, are you willing in a court of law to say that you allowed this, that, or the other?

1 (35m 54s):

2 (35m 55s):
And it's like, and it just becomes no question At that point, you know, we might see something as kind of, you know, really gray, what's the big deal? It's like, look, no, we, we can have our servers. Oh yeah. And this is international, right. So it's like, you know, like with what's going on in Russia, it's like, yeah, dude, we, we can have, you know, if it's serious enough, we Oh shoot you, I remember when there were web guys getting arrested in Costa Rica.

1 (36m 23s):
Oh yeah.

2 (36m 24s):
Cause they were like, ah-huh. You know, we're, we're in Costa Rica, the United States can't touch us extradition. Good luck. And it's like, it's like, yeah, but you guys are basically there on a handshake. Yeah. And the State Department pulled strings.

1 (36m 40s):
Hey. And the, the long arm of the US never underestimate that. So what's the biggest lesson you've learned in this business?

2 (36m 49s):
I would say the biggest lesson I've learned would be turn, turn your weaknesses into challenges. When I was in my twenties, it was a lot more about looking at your weak. You know, where are my weaknesses? Where are my strengths? Let's put the weaknesses aside. Let's focus on our strengths. And as I've gotten older, that has, that's very seriously changed. I've realized my shortcomings are challenges that I have to address in order to get ahead. Right.

2 (37m 29s):
Sherry did not wanna do novelty, she didn't wanna do pleasure products. She was laser focused on video. And that was so dead. We were lucky to get the clients we got after N Works and after the stock market crash. But old school porn sales moved on to pleasure products. So when, when we, when I had to close the doors for black and blue media and I was starting High Octane, I was approached by Anne over at the Dungeon store and I had done a little bit of novelty publicity, but I, I welcomed them because Sure.

2 (38m 12s):
I was not going to move forward until I took on that challenge and learned. That's good. And I, yeah, I've failed, I've changed strategies, failed again. I've had some victories. I've had some more victories. And we keep changing until we keep winning. And, and then we keep, keep we keep changing and winning some more more.

1 (38m 35s):
Always have to be willing to change.

2 (38m 38s):
Yeah. And they, Anne and Brittany, they have been so patient in that regard.

1 (38m 44s):
Brittany's awesome.

2 (38m 45s):
Yeah. And I love them for it.

1 (38m 46s):
Well I really enjoyed having her on. So, is publicity something I can do myself? Or is it better to hire a professional? And along with that, how can I justify the expense?

2 (38m 59s):
Well, you, you have and I even, oh, you mean can someone out there actually do their own someone

1 (39m 4s):
Out there? Yes, I do. I actually do have some expertise being a marketing consultant. But, and, and the, the people out there should, can they do it themselves or should they hire someone? I know, I know what my answer would be, but I want yours

2 (39m 19s):
Short term's. Yes. And writing a press release is actually pretty basic. It's, it's high school level. That's true. High school journalism at the most, the harder part is getting the releases placed in getting to know the press. So I mean, like, if you could, if it, you're essentially, especially with porn publicity, you're writing, you're writing like a one page article. Yeah. It's a matter of getting to know the press, getting to know who the contacts are. This is very, very much about the relationships and there's a lot of people Yeah.

2 (39m 59s):
I've never even met in person that I am very cordial with. Oh.

1 (40m 3s):
Because otherwise that become friends. Yeah.

2 (40m 6s):
Yeah. Cause otherwise,

1 (40m 8s):
Like you and me, cuz we've, yeah. We've connected and we've become friends and we've never met. Yeah.

2 (40m 14s):
It's also very time consuming. Yeah. This is something that on some scale you might be able to delegate in a business, but you have to ask yourself, is it cheaper to have a full-time employee do this? Is it cheaper for me to do this? Or can I have someone else handle it for less? And and so Yes. Yes. The the benefit to, you know, if you are, you know, if you're a single person with a single company and you can delegate the time and make yourself available, they will love you for it because it really helps when you're available.

2 (40m 58s):
Yeah. You know, if they're, this is how some people's like how the fuck does he keep getting on that show? How the hell, because he cuz he can be there. Yeah. You know, it's like they, they start to realize, hey, well Neil Tyson deGrasse is, you know, he's like, you know, he, I, you know, he, he was like the guy, he was like the scientist who would be like, yes, I'm the guy that's there for you. Ask me your questions. Yeah. I don't care how st He's like, I welcome your questions cuz it means I don't have to write grants today. Matter of factly would, if, would you like to write a grant for grant application for me? I will gladly do your show.

1 (41m 37s):
Yeah. I love, I love him on Bill Marsh's show. I haven't seen him for a while and I, I'm sure we'll see him soon. He's Yeah, he's fantastic. So what red flags should someone look for when screening a publicist

2 (41m 50s):
Placement? Ask a publicist who their clients are. You don't have to ask 'em for references. Just go, okay, who's your clients? And do a Google search. Something should come up on the client. You know, Bruce, your press releases have placed in XYZ avn and why not? Those targets aren't mandatory, but it's a really good example that clients should come up somewhere in a search. Yep. I I, I've had one or once or twice, like when I, when I meet somebody and it's like, okay, who's your publicist? X, Y, Z?

2 (42m 30s):
It's like, okay, let me, let me do a Google search on your, on your, on your company. And the only press release that came up within a year of service was the press release that the company had hired on publicist.

1 (42m 44s):
That's hilarious.

2 (42m 46s):
You don't want that to be the only thing they say.

1 (42m 48s):
Oh, no. Yeah. Hey, I got a question along with that. Would you think, and I, I guess I, well I know I have somebody in particular in mind. He, he, we can talk about this off air, but do you think that it's a strength or a weakness for someone to have a huge roster of clients

2 (43m 11s):
As long as they're getting the love? The first complaint I'd hear from someone's publicist, I'm sorry, the first complaint I'd hear about someone's publicist is they're not doing anything. Yeah. And once again, it's kind of back to the placements. Like Brian Gross has a team. Yes. You know, I, Brian's,

1 (43m 32s):
Brian's awesome

2 (43m 33s):
And, and I, I mean I I'm, there was one point I'm like, dang, when does this guy sleep? I, I like to think of this more as a boutique. Things are much, you know, I I I I aimed for sustainability versus

1 (43m 46s):
Like, and my company is exactly the same way. Jay, maybe that's one of the reasons we get along so good is that adult site broker I considered to be a boutique

2 (43m 55s):
There. You and it's very comfortable to have that. Yes. And so, like, if, if there's a, if there's a high, high volume of clients and they're getting their needs met, they're getting their placements, that's okay. That's good. And you know, there's, there's also been this thing of like, well, well what happens if the publicist is moonlighting? And are you getting your needs met? And if you know, if the answer is yes, then well then that's fine. You know, is is, is it, is, is, is there rate a good value? That's great. But the, yeah, the, the, one of the problems I'd run into, back to the, the publicist, there was a guy who, he was a publicist, but what he really wanted to do was direct.

2 (44m 44s):
And I'm not kidding. That's, and he was good at it. Yeah. He was good at it. But the problem would happen in that he was doing publicity for video companies and, and these video companies would come back to him and they're like, your movie came first. Yeah. And so it's like, you know, so the, so the, the, the client, the clients took second in terms of priority.

1 (45m 16s):

2 (45m 17s):

1 (45m 17s):
That should never

2 (45m 18s):
Happen. That Yeah. Especially given he was their competition.

1 (45m 21s):
Ah, geez.

2 (45m 23s):

1 (45m 24s):
They never, well the company should have never put themselves in that situation knowing that, that he was a competitor. As far as I'm concerned. I think I, I think that was a bad move on their part. So what are some things people should never do with the press?

2 (45m 42s):
Anything to set them off? The first mistake I've seen executives make are bullying the press and, oh, I've got this. And then it's like, you know, I'll, you know, you're, you know, the Eddie, we have that problem with Eddie Hmm. In that he was like, well, I'll tell Avian what to print and they'll, they'll have to pay me to be in their magazine. And I'm sure there would've been one or two people that would've actually been fine with that. But the thing was, was that it was like, you know, it's like, no, I, I get to read the articles first and this, and it's like, the news does not work for you. Right. And mainstream publici, the the mainstream reporters Yeah.

2 (46m 25s):
The mainstream press, they know bullshit a mile away. You know, you come in throwing your, if we come in throwing our weight around, try and bully the press, try and pull some of the alpha male moves. They'll, they, it's like, you know, I, I actually, I've seen news people go, we're done. Yeah. What do you mean we're, we're done? We're That's it. You know, had enough. Yeah. You're

1 (46m 50s):
Not getting published. Sorry. Yeah.

2 (46m 53s):
And the, in the middle of the, in the middle of the like a live interview. Oh, geez. And yeah, so it's like, be polite, say thank you. Yeah. If you, if you can, if you can budget some, add revenue. I mean, I've got, I've got several people, believe it or not, on Patreon. Hmm. To where just, you know, the, just to, just as a way to say thank you, share the love. Hmm. And on the flip side, yeah. If you want writers to love you and reporters to love you, be available. Yeah, sure. Brian is actually much better than that, than, than I am. I'll admit that in a second. But the, that is part of what they want, that's part of what they love.

2 (47m 33s):
Once you've established that relationship, make sure they have your mobile number. You know, it's like if they've called you and said, Hey, we, you know, we'd like to have you on the show sometime, or, Hey, would you like to come? It's like, here's my number. If you need me, I'll be right there. Sure. And you and I have experienced this with people where they'll have trouble getting the time to do the interview. Yeah. You want the press to love your business. Go, Hey, I can do this right now. Yeah. Just say the time. I'll make room.

1 (48m 2s):
Yeah. I've got weird hours. So I understand that, that sometimes it's a little difficult for people. And one of your clients had a little bit of trouble with my schedule and I decided I would just make it work because, you know, in the end I need guests too. And I also wanted to make it good for you. So

2 (48m 20s):
Thank you. Thank you. Well,

1 (48m 22s):
Well you're welcome. Look, this relationship is important to me. You bring me guests, you've now come on the podcast yourself. So it's, it's very important. And that's, there's a value there. So it's very important that I keep you happy as well. I, so yeah, it works both ways. It's all about the love. It's all about the love. Well, Jay, I'd like to thank you for being our guest today and adult side broker talk, and I hope we'll get a chance to do this again soon.

2 (48m 50s):
It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

1 (48m 52s):
The pleasure's all my, my broker tip today is part one of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. First, make sure you're converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic is expensive, whether it's search engine, traffic review, site traffic, or affiliate traffic. You pay it a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity to either spend money or do whatever it is you want your visitors to do. In the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay. In North America, most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world, credit cards aren't used nearly as much.

1 (49m 37s):
In Europe, for instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from. In Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa, in other developing areas. Many people pay by mobile. Do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions. You get most of your traffic, it'll make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy. But since you don't have their preferred way to pay, they can't. If you're looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this is to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate.

1 (50m 18s):
People have more options than ever these days. I can't tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies where the navigation isn't obvious to the user. You poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple. Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out. Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don't think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site. We'll talk about this subject more next week and next week we'll be speaking with Roger T Pipe of Rog Reviews. And that's it for this week's Adult Site Broker talk. I'd once again like to thank my guest, Jay Moyes. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I'm Bruce Friedman.

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