Adult Site Broker Talk Episode 245 with Dominik Hurum of TantumPay

This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Dominic Hurram of Tantum Pay. I’ll be at the TES affiliate conference in Seville, Spain March 9th through the 11th. I’d love to sit down with you and discuss buying and selling sites. To book an appointment go to our website at adultsitebroker.com. Your first sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker and our affiliate program ASB Cash will pay you 20% of our broker commission. This can amount to tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars. Check out ASB Cash.com for more details and to sign up. And we’re proud to announce our latest project thewaronporn.com. You’ll find articles on age verification laws and more on the industry’s plight in the war on porn and the numerous attacks on us. Go to thewaronporn.com and check it out. Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker. We’re proud to offer a growing free porn gaming site with adult sex games. The site is owned by one of the top entrepreneurs in our industry. This niche site is designed with a streamlined, user-friendly HTML structure that speeds up load times. What makes this site unique is its hands-free operation. It runs on autopilot, so no daily management is required, making it ideal for someone who wants a passive, reliable revenue stream. The only ongoing effort involves uploading new games, which takes no more than 10 to 15 hours per month to add hundreds of titles, ensuring a continuous stream of fresh content. The site is perfect for someone looking to enter or expand in the adult gaming space. The total number of adult games live to date is 3,397. 93% of the traffic is direct or organic. There’s an extensive network of high authority backlinks built over several years. Many of these links come from permanent guest posts on respected high authority domains, offering sustainable SEO strength that requires no ongoing maintenance costs. This strategic backlink portfolio boosts search engine ranking and organic traffic that newer sites can’t match. Only $1.2 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is Dominic Hurham of Tantum Pay. Dominic, thanks for being with us on Adult Site Broker Talk. Hello Bruce. Yeah, thank you very much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here. It’s nice to have you. Dominic is a highly motivated entrepreneur and investor best known as the founder and CEO of Tantum Pay. With the extensive experience in high risk industries, such as adult entertainment and crypto, Dominic focuses on developing solutions that help businesses tackle complex challenges. His commitment to innovation and efficiency extends to his role as an active investor in cutting edge fintech ventures where he continues to explore new ways to drive growth and transformation. Tantum Pay is revolutionizing payments for the adult industry by offering a powerful combination of digital age verification and seamless payment processing through its secure e-wallet. Their solution directly targets the critical pain points in the market, enhancing user privacy, simplifying payments, and driving higher conversions to boost revenue for merchants. With features like one-click payments and multiple payment methods, Tantum empowers businesses to tap into new monetization opportunities. As a reliable partner, they provide the stability and security merchants need to grow their revenue while minimizing risk in high risk industries. Dominic, why don’t you give us a quick introduction to Tantum Pay besides what I just said and what it does. Yeah, thank you very much. I think you have it covered quite well already. But generally speaking, we are an alternative payment method, so digital wallet in which we combine the whole digital identity parts, which is of course with the regulations around youth protection, really increasing growth Europe and worldwide with the actual payments needs. So it’s one app that allows you to verify your age towards platforms, complete payments towards platforms, and really focusing on offering a complete solution towards merchants, allowing them to actually focus on operations and what matters, and basically giving us all of the regulatory burdens, payment burdens. Yeah, that’s basically it. So when you originally started it, what pain points were you looking to address that you saw in the market? That’s a good question. I mean, I have a very long background in the industry, so I really got to know the industry and the pain points that are clearly present throughout the industry. I think the biggest problem is payment stability. So generally to find payment providers, to find banking infrastructure, and to actually have a reliable partner that doesn’t just kick you out because the risk appetite changes. I think that’s something that the whole high risk industry is having issues with, especially the adult industry. So that’s I think the biggest point we wanted to address. And then the second point, which I think is also really relevant is just the lack of monetization of users, because we have an industry that everybody is utilizing, that it’s spread throughout the whole world, but there is still a certain stigma and bias towards it, also from users that there’s a bit of a fear of to import credit card information. It depends on the country, of course, but especially countries like Germany, where data sensitivity is one of the biggest points. We wanted to tackle this fear of users having to input their credit card information on adult platforms, which definitely is one of the biggest points of abandonment in the payments. So I would say a combination of general payment infrastructure, fears of users, and increasing regulations, which makes it more and more difficult for adult platforms to actually focus on the operational needs and not so much on all of the compliance topics surrounding it. What are the tools people get when they become a customer of Tannin Pay? So we always have to look at both sides, first of all, the users that basically get the wallets, which I actually like to compare to PayPal, because PayPal is just a very well known, of course, great product that is used a lot, not used in the adult industry, or only via certain methods, right? But it still has a huge acceptance. And the idea is basically to have a system in place that’s acting similar to PayPal, just with even more trust that allows users to have a really sophisticated and simple one click here, confirm my age, verification on this platform, I complete a payment on another platform, always over single click of a button, and having a focus on data sensitivity. So we don’t share the data towards platforms, we just give a confirmation basically. So that’s from a user perspective. And for the merchants, it’s basically really a full solution that allows them to have age, verification and payments from one provider and not have to fight around with too many providers and difficulties. So we’re basically do the age verification, we do the payments and by combining both, we also act as a conversion booster. So it’s basically one stop shop towards merchants. Okay. Does it also kind of like a lot of other e-wallets? Does it also kind of act like a bank too? Basically from the license and our capabilities, we would be able to expand our offerings in this. At the moment, we really, let’s say we focus on the business model we have, because we definitely see we’re targeting clear pain points and we want to focus on having these pain points eliminated to offer the best service or users and to the merchants. So at the moment, it’s really based to have a close system between verified users at platforms and allowing them to have extremely low risk transactions within this environment. Got it. Got it. But that’s something that might be ahead. Yeah, I think it’s something that not a lot of the companies actually offer. And we’re able to really address the pain points for our business model in that way, reduce the risk, offer better fees, offer much better chargeback rates, and just take out all of the issues that are actually present in the industry and which make it so difficult to bank this industry, right? So how did tandem come to be and what inspired its creation? I’m going to keep the story a bit short because it’s a quite long one. It’s okay. But basically, I’ll... All the time you want? Okay, perfect. I’ll just ramble on. So basically, I really grew up in the high risk industries as well. I have a close personal connection to the Venus Fair in Berlin. So I’ve been active as a neutral party also in the industry for basically a very long time and got to know a lot of the players in the industry, talked a lot about them. I have a lot of friends in the industry. And because of this, I really got the feedback from the industry where the issues, what troubles there are. And I always had a feeling like it’s a quite unfair market, right? I mean, it’s a huge industry that everybody is basically working in or enjoying, but still it’s the most difficult industry for payments and for regulations. And the idea was basically to create a solution that’s fair towards the industry and that’s there to stay, right? So it’s not something that we want to do for the short term, but our idea is really to have a solution that caters to the needs of the industry and offers a long term solution to solve the problems of the industry. Because I think at the end of the day, there’s just a huge need and the current setup is yeah, it’s just needs to be reworked and modernized. Right, right. So you decided to start tandem to address all that. Exactly. So that was really the initial idea started with the whole age verification topic as well. So just youth protection increasing, right? All of the lawsuits going on against the big players. And I mean, it’s a total mess. And as I mentioned, I have a lot of friends in the industry from both sides. So I also know that this topic is going on for the last 20 years already, but it’s becoming more and more like in the spotlight, right? I mean, you could see it with the whole MasterCard scandal that it’s getting more focused also from the payment side. So that was the initial idea to have an age verification solution. And that not only offers a solution towards the platforms, but also addresses the actual issues of the users. So we do this by having the one app, right? You go through one time age verification process. And then you basically have your digital identity and you can use it to verify your age towards all the platforms we’ve integrated with a single click of a button. And we don’t share your data towards the platform. So you’re actually anonymous. That was basically the start of the idea. And then we thought, hey, why not also tackle the payment issues? So we combined it with the Tantan wallet basically. Very cool. Yeah, it’s certainly a big issue in the United States right now. In fact, I just got finished interviewing Solomon Friedman from ALO yesterday. And we talked a lot about that. And obviously, Pornhub is kind of at the center of all of it. And we discuss age verification and all of those issues. So it’s interesting you mentioned that. Where do you see the problems, the biggest problems in the current market? I think the biggest problems in terms of age verification is just the lack of clear regulations. Actually, I mean, of course, you have to clear regulations from the regulatory standpoint, but just the enforceability, right? The regulator is also going after the big players and trying to work against them. But at the same time, the big players actually have really sophisticated scissors in place, right? And if you would just basically block the big players, the users would still find platforms that maybe don’t have such sophisticated scissors in place. So I think all of the players don’t have an issue with age verification at all. It’s more about how it’s being implemented throughout the industry. So I think that’s definitely one problem. And that also leads to the other problem, which is again, the lack of bankability and payment providers to have actually like a solution that works, that’s stable, where you have a long term partner where you don’t have to worry that your bank account might be frozen because the risk appetite changes, or you have payment fees of 15%, which really cuts into the margin of the players, right? I mean, if you look into the business models, you have affiliate programs, you have to content creators, you have to pay out, right? So there’s not too much that actually sticks with the platform. So every percentage counts. And if you have fees of 15%, it’s just, I mean, it’s difficult, right? It’s tough. So I think that’s definitely an issue. It’s just the difficulty to bank in terms of payments, not only for the adult providers itself, but also for the players surrounding it, right? So even as a financial institution, as a financial neutral institution, it’s not always easy to find good partners if you’re working in the space, right? It has a quite long tail, I would say, the issue. And it’s more than present. And I don’t think it’s getting easier, to be honest. I think it’s getting more difficult. So that’s definitely a problem. So how do you handle the difficulty of working with the adult industry? For us, I mean, we are able to really build up on the experience we’ve gained in the industry. As I said, always a bit of a neutral perspective towards industry as well. So we were able to really see where the fundamental issues lie. And based on this, the idea was really to set up a very strong foundation. So we also took our time with Tantun, basically, because we wanted to make sure that we actually have very strong payment infrastructure in place, that we have great partners on all sides, that we have a very robust technical system. So we basically make sure that we have an extremely strong foundation in terms of our setup and our payment rails and infrastructure, so that we can also offer the stability to our platforms. And at the same time, of course, just generally the business model. So I think we really build a business model based on the experience we have to eliminate all of the risks at the different parts of the actual setup. And by doing this, we can actually offer a really low risk environment in which we can complete transactions in the high risk industry without actually being high risk at the end of the day, right? Because it’s just a matter of, I mean, how do you define high risk? And then if you figure out, OK, the reason A and B, then we tackle those reasons with our business model. And through that, we can just offer a really stable solution, I would say. So you said earlier you were talking about very low chargebacks. Is the bar pretty high for someone to charge back through Tannimpay? No, it’s actually, we have a very interesting concept here because chargebacks are handled completely internally within our system. So inquiries and banks aren’t even involved, which of course is very attractive for them. So we have a smart refund system, we call it, where users basically are able to request chargebacks within our app. Of course, they have to give a reasoning, they can upload screenshots and so on. And then actually we give merchants a chance to look at this chargeback request, analyze it, and they might agree with the chargeback and accept it. And then it’s a refund. And we don’t even charge any fees because we didn’t even have to be involved. So we allow merchants to handle this part themselves to reduce their chargeback rates, also the costs they have. Because I mean, chargeback costs with payment providers are extremely high. So this way we allow them to work on it by themselves and only if they disagree, they’re able to also input information, upload, improve from their side and escalate it to us. And then based on the information we have from the users and the merchants, we basically take a decision if it’s a chargeback or if it’s a refund. But ultimately in this way, we really reduce the amount of chargebacks that end at an acquirer side and at the payment provider side and in this way reduce the fees for the added merchants. So it’s not really easy for someone to charge back. They’ve got to give you a very good reason and give you proof, right? Yeah, I think it’s a fair approach for all sides, right? Because of course, there can be difficulties, there can be real chargeback reasons, right? And if you’re able to actually provide a reason that makes sense with a screenshot as a user towards the platform, the platform sees the reason and they can easily accept it. And there’s no harm done on every side, right? But at the same time, it reduces potential chargeback fraud because you actually have to give a reasoning, right? And you have to explain, okay, what happens? So I think it offers a fair approach both for users that they have an actual easy channel to communicate a chargeback and get the chargeback, right? But at the same time, platforms are able to really respond to it and analyze it and put in work without just having fraudulent chargeback, increasing their rates, increasing the chargeback rate in general, which then leads to higher fees again, right? Because again, that’s also a longer story. Yeah, because let’s face it, in the adult industry, most chargebacks are from people who they subscribe to something, it becomes a recurring subscription, all of a sudden they don’t want it and they decide they’re going to charge back. And they’re very rarely is a good reason in that particular case. Now, you allow recurring subscriptions, right? Yeah, exactly. At the moment, we have it based on the wallet itself, the recurring subscriptions. So the balance you have in the wallet, we can work with subscriptions and we’re currently expanding that part to also potentially book directly from the users to have an ongoing flow in that process. So here we’re also, of course, getting a lot of information and input from the platforms we’re already working with. I think that that’s also really an advantage of us that we’re very close with the platforms and we really appreciate the feedback we also get. And we have a very dynamic IT team. So if we have requests, hey, we would like this and this, I think we can facilitate that in a really short matter of time, which is also a great advantage. That’s good. So how does somebody fund their wallet? Do they, does it go directly to their bank account? Yeah, so basically a user creates an account with Tantum and after the account is created, the user has different payment methods within the app that can be used to upload balance. So at the moment, we have Zepa and Zepa instance. So you basically have a bank account with a reference ID, you have to transfer money to, we recognize that the money belongs to you. And then as soon as the money is there, you get a notification and you have the balance within the wallet. And then of course, we also support Visa and Mastercard. So user can use his credit cards to instantly upload balance. And here we are always the counterparty, right? So there’s no adult merchant involved in this part. The user really uploads balance with us. We’re neutral regulated EMI. I mean, we’re operating in various industries. So there’s really neutrality here. So you just have a upload of balance towards Tantum. And then we’re of course always working also on new payment methods. So at the moment, we have Zepa, Zepa instance, Visa, Mastercard. In December, we’re actually going to add Apple and Google Pay, which is very interesting for the industry. And then we’re expanding with various different APMs throughout the next year. Also once again, we also always appreciate input from our merchants to see which ones they would desire that we will also input them. And then basically once the user uploads money, it’s within our closed system. So the transactions, transactions done internally, and there’s no connection between the actual uploading of the balance and the payment towards the platform. And in this way, the user also doesn’t have, for example, an adult platform on the account statement, right, but only upload towards Tantum. And as I mentioned, we’re also operating throughout various industries. So there’s a high neutrality here. Okay. What happens when somebody has a recurring subscription, but there isn’t enough money in the e-wallet? Yeah. We work with notifications towards the users beforehand, basically, to hear from, hey, there’s an upcoming subscription coming up in certain time intervals to make sure that the user is aware of this and uploads money. And of course, as I mentioned, we’re currently also evaluating the possibility to directly also upload money from the user’s account. Of course, with prior confirmation of the user that we don’t have any interruption of this process here. That’s something we’re targeting for Q1 next year, actually. So at the moment, I would say we have a bit of a dynamic solution that works and already covers the requirements we have. But of course, we’re looking to expand this and really offer a full-fledged solution here as well that covers all of the requirements. And I should make the disclaimer that we’re recording this on November 6th, but the episode will run early in 2025. So maybe it will already be instituted. Yes, hopefully it will. We’re pushing for it. Very good. So you mentioned low monetization of users. And what do you want Tantum to be able to do with that? Yeah. So basically, the idea here is that we have huge volumes in the other industry, right? I think we don’t have any volumes comparably in any other industry. But if you break it down to how many of those users are actually paying users and how high the monetization is per user at the end of the day for the platforms, it’s quite low if you compare it to other industries like Gammin, for example. And our idea here is that with Tantum to establish an industry-wide payment solution, right, that’s really covered on all of the platforms. So that means if you pay on platform A, you already have a Tantum account. And if you go on platform B, you see I can pay with one single click and stay anonymous. Then the next step to actually pay is really reduced. And in this way, the aim is to increase the monetization throughout the industry. Because as we talked about before, platforms pay a huge amount. Often users pay a surcharge and still it’s used. So imagine you have a system that works similar to paper, but it addresses even more the actual pain points, which paper doesn’t even cover in this industry, but has the same simplicity, right, and is covered throughout the industry that could potentially really increase the revenues, not just for one platform, but ultimately for the whole industry, which is the idea from us as well. Sure. You want to knock down those barriers and get people to be ready to pay. Exactly. How does Tantum ensure compliance with all the evolving regulations in the adult industry? Yeah, that’s a good question, especially since the regulations are constantly shifting and getting more difficult to actually adhere to. So first of all, the age verification product positively evaluated by the German Commission of Youth Media Protection as an overall solution. So I think we were one of the very early ones to actually have a complete overall solution that’s positively evaluated by them. So on this way, we are of course pretty certain that our age verification product is always up to the standards that it requires, and it’s already used throughout the industry quite well. It works fantastically. So that’s definitely covered in terms of age verification. And for the whole payment part, we are a regulated e-money institute. So not only a PSP, but actually a license above that, I would say. So the whole setup is even a bit more complicated and it requires even more regulatory finesse, let’s say, like this in our setup. So being an EMI, we really adhere to banking regulations and have a very high standard that we uphold, which we can then of course also offer to the platforms because they know if we have payments via us, it’s 100% clean and there’s no need to worry about any regulatory aspects because we have it all fully covered. That’s nice. How does Tantum’s age verification system work and why is it essential for the industry? Yeah, so it’s of course fully AI based. I mean, that’s become a norm nowadays, luckily. So basically, we combine it all within our app for the age verification product. We actually also have a web based solution. So we offer overlay for the merchants where they basically can offer the users the choice to go through a web based process with our app and we have our app solution and generally users go through AI based verification, shortly scan the ID card and do a short selfie video. Once that’s completed, you basically have your digital identity and then you can verify your age. As I mentioned with a single click of a button and the advantage here of course is also that if the platform registers on one side already and has the age verification, it’s a one-sided one-click confirmation. You don’t have to run through the whole process again and again and we have an increasing user base that has good coverage already so that really also again increases the whole conversion. Yeah, so basically, fully AI based throughout an app and you have the one-click age verification that works pretty good. One of the concerns and obviously there’s a lot of controversy right now, especially in the United States over the age verification laws and it’s already gone to the Supreme Court and is being challenged the Texas law and the biggest problem that everyone has with it is that people have to put their ID onto a website onto an app and that there’s always the chance for people to have their identification stolen. How are you able to secure that that’s not going to happen with your system? Yeah, I mean that’s definitely a problem of the current technological involvement as well. Evolvement, I mean we have data spread everywhere throughout the industry, not only throughout the industry throughout the entire world exactly. I mean, I always like to use the example that everybody knows one day you speak about something and suddenly you get the Instagram conversion about exactly this product. I think everybody’s been there. So it’s definitely an issue. What we do is to again act as a neutral party because I think the main difficulty is uploading an ID card or personal information towards the added websites. I mean, there’s a certain barrier there that people don’t really want to take. It’s the same with importing credit card information. Everybody has a bit of a feeling, do I really want to put my credit card information? Do I really want to upload an ID document here? And here also different to our age verification identifiers. We’re not just an identity provider but we’re actually a regulated finance institution. So our whole processes are set up according to banking regulations. We have external auditors, internal auditors basically being audited constantly, especially also our IT infrastructure. So we have audits towards IT infrastructure. We do a lot of testing in this area. So just our entire setup is banking grade in a sense that of course it just offers much more security than maybe a normal provider might do. And of course there’s always a certain risk and you can never eliminate that. But I think what we do is really we act as a neutral party where user verifies themselves towards a regulated finance institution and we only verify your age or identity towards a platform but we don’t share the information of the users. So what we do is we only give a confirmation and a reference ID. And according to the German Commission of Youth Media Protection this reference ID is basically sufficient as we are able to reconnect it to the data point. So this acts as a full-fledged age verification but it protects the user’s data towards different platforms. So in this way we limit the amount of data being spread around everywhere by acting as basically a source of truth and the neutral safe provider in the middle. Very good. How do you convert age verification users to paying users for the platforms? Yeah, so that’s actually I think a very interesting point in our whole concept, right? Because we have an age verification product that’s really being used already throughout the industry. And the idea is if you have to verify your age already, you basically have your mobile in your hand already to verify your age. And then the next step towards a payment, you’re already holding your wallet in your hand, right? So the step towards actually doing payment is so much smaller because you don’t have to go and do something or find something else. You actually have to take out your actual because you’re holding your phone in your hand and nowadays your phone is your wallet, right? So the user is already one step closer to doing the payments. And then once again, as we have a user base that’s already verified and we have increasing numbers there, you might have a verification done on platform A and then you want to buy something on platform B and you already recognize, hey, I already have the time to pay up. So the process is really small. And in this way we can, we basically combine the actual hurdle of doing age verification and turn it into an advantage because we offer both in one step, right? We can even have one QR codes where you complete the payment and verify your age. So you don’t have to go through two different processes. So of course that’s a real conversion booster that also works quite well already on the platforms we’re working with. Very good. You mentioned a number of payment methods. What about crypto? Do you support that or will you? We’re definitely looking into it. I think it’s an interesting payment opportunity or a method that we should offer. So it’s definitely something we’re looking at for next year. I think generally speaking, the volumes in crypto usage is quite small if you actually look into the industry. So the percentage of users that actually pay with crypto is from, at least from my knowledge, not too big. Still, it’s quite interesting also for other aspects, right? For payouts towards content creators or whatsoever, it’s definitely used also. So we’re exploring what we can do with crypto and are looking into it for next year. I mean, it will be pretty straightforward for us to allow users to basically upload their balance with crypto. I don’t see a big problem there. So we should definitely facilitate this. And then we will just explore and also different opportunities, how we can enhance our product and support our platforms with crypto. Okay. Now you mentioned one-click payments. Tell me exactly how that works. Yeah. So basically if a user already has our app, it’s I think even more convenient than a PayPal flow, right? Because you have your wallet, you have balance on your wallet. And when you click on payment on your phone, you click on pay, it directly opens our app. You recognize from where you come, you complete the transaction, you have a short face ID to confirm that it’s actually you and to support PST2 requirements, of course. And then you are directly re-routed back to the platform. So it’s a process that takes five, maybe 10 seconds and it’s just extremely smooth. And on the desktop, it’s the same, right? You click on pay, you seek your code, you scan it with your normal camera. It opens the app, confirm, done. So the payment is extremely fast. If the user has the app, of course, that’s it’s extremely convenient and the flow. I’m always happy to do the flow myself because it just works pretty fast and makes me happy to see that it works this well. I’m sure it does. It’s your platform. How do you manage risk for merchants in high risk industries like adult? I think it’s generally our setup that allows this robustness where we make sure that the whole infrastructure is there to cater these needs. And at the same time, we know what we have to look at when onboarding merchants, when going through the process. So I think that’s also one difficulty in the industry is just the onboarding, right, for payment providers. It’s the pain in the ass if I’m allowed to say. Of course you can say any word on this platform. That’s good to know. That’s good to know. Not censored. No, not at all. So I mean, it’s difficult, right, the onboarding process. And ideally my goal was to have such a fast and streamlined onboarding process, right. But like to be honest and realistic, it’s difficult to actually offer, right. So we know what we do. We have a structured approach. We look at it in a very professional manner. So our idea is to have one good onboarding and then to not annoy you anymore, right, because you have a lot of providers who are onboarded and then every two months you get new requests, deliver this, do this, change this. And again, that’s a pain in the ass, right, because that’s not something you want to do exactly. But we’re also not able to completely reduce the hurdle of the beginning, right. So if I talk with platforms, I became very transparent and I said, hey, listen, the first onboarding, I mean, we have to be thorough. It’s enhanced due diligence. We have to make sure we cover all of the angles and have a good setup. And especially in this area, I mean, it’s enhanced KWC even, right. So the regulations are stricter. But we make sure that we have a very clear communication what is needed. And we have a good communication with the merchants that we have a smooth process in place. And then if it’s set up, we can basically guarantee you’re good, right. You don’t have to worry anymore. You can enjoy your payments and your payouts and you’re fine. But that’s definitely a difficulty. That’s something we really look into to have a, yeah, even if it’s not the most fun onboarding experience, if you complete it, you’re safe and you don’t have to worry so much. And you have a stable solution that’s there for the long term, often you get fees, a good setup and no headaches, ideally. Well worth it then. What kind of feedback have you received so far from adult merchants? I think very positive in both aspects. I think generally we just came back from the Venus Fair also last week, where we of course were also present. And it’s always interesting because you get to speak with so many minds from the industry, right. And I think it’s still clear that the need for payment providers is definitely there. The need for a robust solution is there, right. So we get a lot of positive feedback from our setup and how we work to tackle the needs of the industry, also tackling this anonymous part that could really increase revenues throughout the industry, right. So we get very positive feedback both from the age verification product, which works great, as well as from the payments where we have more and more platforms that we’re onboarding and using it. So yeah, I would say it’s very good feedback we’re getting. And as I mentioned for us, it’s also important to work closely with the merchants and see, okay, where are issues that you’re having? Where could you need potential solutions, right. So not only the basic payments, but also thinking outside of the box, like do you need any enhancements here or we’re even looking into in-stream payments. So you don’t even have to close the stream if you watch it, but you just embed a QR code in the screen and you scan it and you pay it, right. So it’s basically payment without the checker process, which is very straightforward and simple for us because that’s how the flow works. So we’re really exploring together with the market as well what we can do to enhance the experience of the users and in that way also the revenues the platforms can potentially make. That would be really cool if somebody could be watching a video and pay right there. Yeah, I mean, it’s very straightforward if you think about it, right. And it’s a big industry. You’re in a stream and then you have to pay, you have to exit the stream. I mean, that’s not really what you want to do. So imagine you have the screen in front of you, you have your QR code, you have your phone, boom scan, confirm, you can even select the package you want to buy. So the process is extremely simple. And we’re already talking to some platforms to see how we’re going about it. So it’s definitely interesting. And that’s what it’s about for us as well to really evolve the whole flow a little bit and bring it to the next level because I feel like it’s really been stuck, especially in the other industry, which is normally very well known for the innovation. Exactly, right. I mean, it’s always the leaders innovation. And I mean, at the end of the day, they’re forced to be the leaders in innovation because of all of the regulations and stones that are put in front of them, right. And here again, it’s something we’re really looking forward to also get feedback and provide a solution that fits the industry in all of the required ways. And make the payment process fast so they can put down the phone because they need their hand for something else, right? Exactly. Oh, by the way, as far as Venus goes, I had the press spokesman Walter on, I think it was in August talking about the Venus show. How was that? It was fantastic. So of course, I also know Walter, he’s a good friend of mine. Yeah, now the Venus, it went great. I think we had a huge amounts of people coming consumers. The numbers were fantastic. The whole fairground was full. The platforms had a huge presence with extremely beautiful booths everywhere. So it was packed. It was great. We got a lot of good feedback. Fast, it was fantastic with Tantum as well. The B2B area also worked really well. So I’m not sure if you saw, but I think it’s the second year now that the B2B is back. And it was really fantastic. The whole setup worked great. And yeah, I think, I mean, some insider information, maybe also, it’s definitely going to increase in size next year as well. So I think the whole B2B area is something that’s very interesting for the Venus as well, that’s going to expand together with the fair itself, right? So the size is increasing and increasing again. We have people from all over the world coming. I think we also have a lot of people from America there this way. So it’s going in a great direction, which also shows that the industry is very much alive. So now it was a fantastic fair, definitely. Yeah, I very well may have to make the trip next year. Please do so. Yeah, with the B2B being what it is, I’m always looking for new B2B opportunities. So yeah, going to Germany doesn’t take that long from here. Yeah, and Berlin is always worth a trip, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. How do you see the future of payments evolving in the adult industry? I think it will continue to be difficult. I don’t think it’s going to get easier. I think the regulations, I mean, it’s not only the added industry, but generally the regulations are increasing and increasing both for other industries, but also just for normal financial regulated institutions. The regulations are tightening, it’s becoming more and more difficult. So I think it even more underscores the need of robust partners in that industry that you can work with together. And of course, I think also age verification is still going to be more and more in the focus and long term I see it being enforced worldwide. I’m not sure how long it will take, but I think for a long time it was just generally age verification pressure, but now the age verification pressure gets to the acquirers and the payments companies, right? And so now it’s actually getting to the point where it hurts the providers because they’re getting higher fees. You have more payment providers that can’t facilitate it. You have Master Visa card becoming more strict. And I mean, I fully understand it and I think that’s a fair way to go as well because there is a certain need of regulation in that. And as long as you have good solutions that take care of these needs, then it’s fine. As long as it’s effective. Yeah. Definitely. And I think that’s something I will be very curious to see how it evolves because it’s difficult to really think about it because it can go in any direction at the moment. I mean, as we spoke about the topic is present since like 20 years, but I do see it becoming more strict and difficult because it reached the payment infrastructure, the regulations, right? But it’s not only more about age verification, but now it’s actually about monetization of potential fraudulent and problems with age verification, which is causing a huge problem. So I think it will continue to be more difficult. And yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, that’s why we’re also here. Yeah, I think that’s important that you have a good partner there to cater that. What are your thoughts on device-based age verification? Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent that works definitely. Our setup is pretty similar in a way, right? I mean, if you have a digital identity within your wallet, you can also reuse that digital identity, right? So, I mean, according to the commission of you, if you need a media protection, you basically it’s called erschwerte Weitergabe in Dritte. So it’s the difficulty to pass on to third parties, which basically similar to PSC2 and requirements requires you to have certain features in place, right? So it’s a combination of knowledge and possession, for example, or knowledge or biometrics and possession. So, for example, within our app, you verify yourselves once, right? And then you need your device, which is my possession, right? Combined with a face ID or pin, which only I can also know. So that means if, for example, my small brother steals my phone, he can still not verify his age because sure, he has my phone, but he needs to have a face ID or pin to get into the app. At the same time, you can have my pin, maybe, but if you don’t have my phone, you can’t access it, right? So you need two of those three points to be covered. And then it’s basically it has this erschwerte Weitergabe in Dritte, the difficulty to pass on to third parties, which is sufficient in terms of the youth protection requirements. And it’s similar to PSC2, right? If you do a credit card payment for a certain amount, you get the SMS send to your mobile device, have to input the code. Same principle, right? So I think if you uphold those standards, then it’s very much feasible. Finally, what is your ultimate goal with Tandem Pay? I think for us, really, it’s have a long-term solution to cater the pain points of the industry, right? So as I mentioned, I am in the industry for a long time. I basically also grew up in it. I have a lot of friends in the industry. And I think just a setup as you have it now or in the past, it’s quite unfair to put it simple, right? With extremely high payment fees, with always increasing regulations. I think the industry should have a bit more freedom and competitive advantage as well, right? It shouldn’t be put in the dark corner. And basically our goal is to have really solution that covers the requirements, addresses the pain points and offers a robust solution to the entire industry that allows platforms to accept payments, have a gratification at good fees, right? At rates that they can actually work with. At the same time, also offer users a solution that allows them to pay without having to worry about data sharing and have a very convenient flow. So basically to have a secure system in place that can increase the revenues throughout the industry while also really looking out for the users. That’s really the idea and the goal. And I think we are on a very good way to reaching it. Very happy how things are going at the moment. Thankful for the trust, the platforms you’re working with are putting into us. So yeah, looking forward to the next months and years. Sounds like you’re off to a great start. Dominic, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon. Thank you very much, Bruce. It was great to be here with you. Thank you. My broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy and then establishing what your budget is. Next it’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well Adult Site Broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non-website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can also act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site. Other places to look are boards like xbiz.net and gfy.com. But to be completely honest, unless what you’re looking for is a really low end property, you’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course, you could contact site owners yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living. It’s a major hassle and it can be really hard to even find out who owns a site. Almost all adult sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar, so when you send them an email, it will be an anonymous address and in most cases the emails aren’t returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can usually find out. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with Steph Sia of the podcast Stripped by Sia. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Dominic Hurram of Tantum Pay. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman. [Music] [Music] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [BLANK_AUDIO]