Adult Site Broker Talk Episode 208 with Walter Hasenclever of Venus Berlin

This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk where each week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry and we give you a tip on buying and selling websites. This week we’ll be speaking with Walter Hasenclever of Venus Berlin. Would you like an easy way to make a lot of money? Send sellers or buyers to us at Adult Site Broker through our affiliate program, ASB Cash. When you refer business to us, you’ll receive 20% of our broker commission on all sales that result from that referral for life. You can make $100,000 or more on only one sale for some of our listings. Check out ASB Cash dot com for more details and to sign up. At Adult Site Broker, we’re proud to announce our latest project, thewaronporn.com. You’ll find articles from industry websites as well as mainstream publications from around the world. It’s designed to raise awareness of our industry’s plight in the war on porn and the numerous attacks on our industry and online free speech by hate groups, the religious right and politicians. You’ll find all that and more at thewaronporn.com. We’ve also added an events section to our website at adultsidebroker.com. Now you can get information on B2B events on our site as well as special discounts reserved for our clients. Go to adultsidebroker.com for more details. Now time for our property of the week that’s for sale at adultsidebroker. We’ve reduced the price on our chatting service for creators and only fans agencies. The company was started in 2021. At that time, most agencies provided chatting services only as part of their full management packages which meant the creator had to give up a lot of their earnings. The owner saw a gap in the market so they targeted independent creators who wanted to stay in control of both their revenue and the overall account. 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My guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk is Walter Hozenkleber of Venus Berlin. Walter, thanks for being with us today on Adult Site Broker Talk. Thank you very much for the invitation and the possibility to talk with you. Hey, it’s a pleasure. Walter’s been advising small and large companies on all aspects of communications for more than 22 years. After studying political science and working for well-known PR agencies, he founded his own agency in 2014. He’s been the press spokesman for Venus Berlin for 15 years and is responsible for all communications. Venus Berlin has been presenting trends and innovations from the erotic and lifestyle sectors every year since 1997. With over 250 exhibitors from 40 countries, it’s the largest international trade fair of its kind. In the exhibition halls under the radio tower, producers and wholesalers present their services and wares from the fields of fashion and pleasure products. They take advantage of the attention of more than 30,000 visitors, yep, you heard right, 30,000 visitors who are attracted every year by the mix of professional product information at the stands and erotic entertainment on the show stages. The internationally renowned fair attracts visitors, industry professionals and media from all over the world. They all come out to Berlin for Venus. Now Walter, tell me more about Venus when it’s taking place and just anything else you can add. Yeah, thank you. This year, the Venus takes place from the 24th to the 27th of October. Oh, my birthday. You’re going to have a birthday party for me. October 24th, very nice. Yes, you are very, very welcome. We have a great party. Venus takes always place like in the last quarter of the year since years because in the early days it was a real more focused trade fair. So there was making the big deals for the Christmas season packages. So the people called trade figures could order their products for the last month of the year. And so we hold on with this late in the year date and it’s really like everybody knows October is Venus time in Berlin. Okay. Talk about going to Berlin in October. There’s more than just Venus going on. Yes, of course. Like the whole week is full of parties, events and inside events and everybody is talking about it. People meeting next to the Venus everywhere. And yeah, people are excited to see how Berlin is going hot in these days. Well, I was more referring to Oktoberfest. Oh, Oktoberfest. Yeah, but Oktoberfest is exactly in September in Munich. So it’s not really in the same time. Oh, I thought it was Oktober. No, it’s mostly in the end of September, even if it’s not. Okay. Got it. So that is a concurrent for us. Oh, well. Now, Venus has been an erotic fair for 27 years. That’s quite a record. How did Venus start and just tell me the story? Yes, down to 1979. It was a time where in media and in the society, erotic seems getting more popular, more common. People talked in V shows about it. There were especially TV shows where sex teams came up. They visited Swinger Club sex toys getting more popular. It was like a growing up time for the scenes. Until the founder decided we must bring it on a more business level. And he created the first Venus with lots of sex toys and especially films because it was the times of DVDs and not internet things. And even the first year was a success and people get excited and it grows very fast in the first years and getting more and more. And also from the beginning on, there was lots of media attention about the scene because sex was a big issue with this time in the media and the first time that everybody spoke. So it grows very fast and getting more and more bigger and also very fast. And the development was from just a trade fair to also a consumer fair because the demand for people to go there and see new products, see sex shows and meet also porn stars was very, very high. Really from the beginning on it was also a B2B show but also a consumer show and that was a really good mix up for everybody. Yeah, it was 1997, not ’79, right? Right, ’97. You said ’79. So I just wanted to make sure. That would be even longer. My fault. No problem. No problem. Yes. Venus has been an erotic fair for that long. Talk about how the fair has developed and changed since it was founded. Yes. I think the development of the Venus fair is similar to the whole industry. As I told before, it was a lot of about films, production companies, pornists in these days. The big companies from all over the world came to Berlin to show new films and to award it the actors. But of course, industry changes. As we all know, over the early 2000 years, the internet came up very quickly and as the edit industry was always an innovator, also at the Venus, they showed the news products, first websites, everything is going on and then changed also the core of the Venus also very much because the years it goes less, less films and DVDs, coming up more internet sites, big platforms, new companies, new business models and they changed the perspective a lot. The art of the people who are exhibiting at Venus was changing also because it wasn’t just the film companies, it was online companies. But also at the same time, all the pleasure product companies growing, getting more and more present there, coming out of the old designed dildos to pink delts and designed dildos and these kind of stuff. So there was also a lot of development, getting more popular and it’s always growing because in the beginning of the 2000 years, there were a lot of film companies, a lot of online companies, so it was bigger and bigger and people get more attraction there. And then there was also a change and a shift between the old porn stars, which were big contracts with the big porn production companies, special of the amateur communities in Germany which came in the 2004 or 2006 years, getting more popular. The girl from next door came to Venus and the fan from the camp could meet these kind of girls there. They just think it’s special for German market, now it’s all over the world, but this was very typical for Venus in these years and it’s still of course there where we have big parts of Venus like this. But this is a bit the community culture who comes to Venus. It was not only the porn stars, the fans. It was much more common people who just watch Cam in the night and then see their girl from the next door at the Venus and have a photo with them. Okay. So cams and fans, fansites are now a big part of it? Yes, of course. But the biggest booths and biggest exhibitors are camsites and fansites of course. Still, of course, some production companies and pressure products and all kind of fashion things, what is needed around. And we have also a very big kinky hall where all fetish and these kind of stuff is presented. Cool. When you first had Venus, how many people showed up? You’re getting 30,000 now. How many showed up then? I don’t know the exact numbers because it was for my time, but I think at the first show there were already like 20,000 people and then we had some years with like 38,000 people what I think the highest years, but there was a little split up in 2010 I think when a lot of trade visitors left Venus and go to another fair. So we left there a lot of trade visitors and trade exhibitors, but of course we get them back now. So that there to work a little broad drop in visitors and also a little bit on economic situation in Germany, how much are the people well to spend money on it. And of course the audience changed also not in the 27 years because of course in the beginning it was really mainly men, even a lot of older men coming to Venus as a typical people who go to sex shops and porn consumers in this time. Actually we have like 45% of women coming to Venus. So it’s nearly 50/50 and it’s much more younger people and lots of couples are coming. It’s another generation were grown up with porn on their mobile and it’s totally natural to talk about sex and to using sex toys and to go to sex positive parties. So this community is now coming to Venus and it’s totally another look at fear. If you see pictures from the early 2000s to now it’s another audience coming to Venus. I’m sure it would be hilarious. Is Venus a reflection of the industry and why? Yes, I think it’s really good reflection of the industry because of course every company who developed anything new or has new business ideas, new products come to the Venus and can show it. And exactly it can show it to their end customers who will buy the product and use the product. It can show it to other business partners who can use it or this is also involving in it. And the last very important point it can show to lots of media influencers and these kind of stuff. On the normal Venus we have like nearly 1000 people registering for press and influencers for Venus. So we have a lot of people, a lot of social media coverage actually of course but also a lot of TV shows covering the Venus and journalists coming to see what’s up there. So of course we have like we’re all very new and like I can remember the first blue rays coming up. They were shown of course there. We have one of the first 3D porn theaters at the Venus some years ago or a lot of years ago already. Virtual reality was a bit thing. All kind of mobile, what could be done on the channel mobile was shown at the Venus first time. So there’s also for pressure products all the combination was on the internet and you can control the pressure product by apps. All these kind of developments and technical development and use will be shown there and could be shown to a really big audience and that’s I think very typical for Venus. It kind of sounds like in Europe this is kind of treated by the media like CES is in the States. Yes, exactly. We don’t have only some media from the branch because we have also of course consumer media but we also have media coming from technical sites. It’s the same people who go to CES or in the early days in Germany go to the Seabed. It was a big technical show. They come to Venus to see what is new in the industry because our industry is known for being first adapter and first developer. So there’s also a big interest and also from not adult industry related media of course to see what is going on there, what is new. So yeah, that’s really very important for us and for media and for exhibitors also. Why is the trade fair in Berlin? Why did you guys pick Berlin? Berlin is the most international known city from Germany and Berlin is of course in the 90s it was more like all the things after the war go down. It was very everything what could happen happened in Berlin. And it still exists. It’s still exists. It’s not it’s known for the clubs and then and shoppings and lots of good hotels. And it’s still if you go out in the world and tell you doing an erotic fair and where is it in Germany and Berlin? Oh, that sounds good. I will go there. It’s still a very good good good feeling about it. And people like to go to Berlin when they come from the US or a Southern America or Asia or whatever. It’s always it’s much easier if you say you go to an unknown city in Germany. So and there are lots of good possibilities and Berlin for side events for parties and also the fairground where we doing the fair is the official fairground from Berlin. We’re also lots of big other fairs are going on like the E-Fair or the Green Week or the ITB which is a travel fair. So it’s very well-known and historic area where you do the fair. It sounds to me anyway like in Germany and Berlin specifically, there doesn’t seem to be as much anti adult sentiment. It seems to be more built into the fabric of Germany. Can you explain? I mean, I mean, you’re seeing so much anti porn and anti adult sentiment and government officials going after our industry. That doesn’t seem to be the case as much in Germany. Oh, yes, it is. Of course, we have all ways to deal with with a lot of regulations and difficulties. Of course, the Venus is can only enter when you’re 18 years old. But yeah, that’s the age of adult. Germany, that’s the main rule. Of course, that’s a basic and we have to control it and these kind of stuff, of course. But we also are very restricted in kind what we are showing, what is allowed and what is not allowed. Of course, nearly everything is allowed. But like we have also some problems with domains which are shown, which are not shown. Because of course, we have the problems with the age verification in Germany, which is very, really strict as you know. So we have to be careful for that, what we are showing. And even if it’s everything is thinking that Germany is so free and so easy, we have restrictions and kind of advertising. We’re doing a lot of advertising for the Venus and in the out of home section that we have big poster campaigns in Berlin and in the areas around Berlin. And it’s not so easy to show there any kind of picture on these posters. We also have to be careful. Sure, you got to be careful what you show. Yeah, it’s got to be. Yeah, yeah, be careful. But also we have like, we have to show them before to the companies what we are showing, for example, in trans stations or in the tube stations. And that’s sometimes really restricting. Of course, we cannot do any advertising on Instagram, paid or these kind of stuff. It’s also restricted as you know, like on Google. So that’s the way we have to deal with it. But of course, in the show itself, there’s a continuity and these kind of stuff is all no problem. We can nearly do everything except life sex, this forbidden, but all the rest is possible. Interesting. I just can’t imagine the main fairgrounds in a big city allowing an adult event like this in America. Yeah, I think it also wouldn’t be so easy in Germany also to get it new. So now we are so for a long time there. So we like part of it and we are familiar with it. But I don’t think it would be so easy if you create something new in another city in a big fairground. It wouldn’t be so easy because the image of Venus is of course to oh yeah, the porn fair, yeah, the sex fair. Of course it is. And that’s what we use, but it’s not always positive related. It’s changing and changing and we work a lot for it. But of course it has like a touch of yeah, not so well known. So it’s like fun. Yeah, it’s built into the fabric of Berlin already. So it would be hard for them to get rid of it. Yeah. And it’s bringing a lot of money to Berlin. Exactly. So you cannot, I’m not even my sister. We invite it every year the governor of Berlin to make opening for Venus, but we never get an answer. Of course, of course you don’t. That’s politicians for you. Those guys are the same everywhere. What makes Venus so special? I think it’s one in a world where everything can happen. It’s like for example last year we have for a long time again, we’re from the US again at our fair and then all the models and talents coming from the US and they are known with US fairs like Amy Ann and X-Biz and E3 and these kind of stuff coming to Venus and see oh my God, what is going on here? Because they are known. Everybody’s new. We have always some visitors coming new to the fair. It’s not for real. Everybody can do what he wants and we have lots of hard girls shows going on and everybody’s feeling free. And the atmosphere is like everything can happen here now and it’s really open minded and people are happy and friendly. We don’t have any problems with something aggressive or something. People are something like that and you can drink, you can run around, you can see, you make pictures with all the models you want. Yeah, so I think the atmosphere of Venus is very, very special. You get really a direct feedback from fans, to your product, to your model, to whatever and also from professionals and as I mentioned before, from media. We have lots of guys I told before in France, they are streaming live sometimes and social media is full of Venus hashtags in these times and it’s really, really high buzz in the internet there about it. So I think that is very, very special. That’s awesome. Why should someone listening come to Venus as a guest, as a consumer? It’s one place where you can get everything, what is related to the erotic industry and where he can make his personal sex life much more better. It’s not only that he can see models and shows of course, at one point, but he can buy of course as a consumer every kind of products and clothes or I don’t know, robes for his fashion and he can also talk. He can talk with models, with talents. He can talk with dominoes. And also we have like an education side where we have panels about how a vagina is making or what women like, what kind of sexuality I have, what is my gender, these kind of stuff. So he can also get questions and get answers from people who are really well-known in it. And that’s very well accepted by the people because it’s not only looking around and see things, he can also talk, get information for their personal needs. And they are open minded to ask questions there because the atmosphere is like totally relaxed and then there’s no shy people or something like that. And I think that’s just the mix is together, what makes it so special and so good for people coming there. Got it. Now, why should someone come to Venus from our industry? Because when we’re going to the B2B fairs, we’re talking a lot about business and sometimes we don’t talk too much about the real product and about the customers who are buying our products. And I think this combination is what it makes it so interesting because you can talk to your business partner about the business, but behind where you’re sitting and talking, you see the final product and the talents or the movies or product or whatever working and you see your end customers and can talk to them also what you can maybe improve on your side or whatever. And that’s a good combination. I don’t think you have it on so much on other fairs and all the big players from the industry are there. And even if they are not visiting, exhibiting there, the people come there because they know they can meet all the people there and these days very easily. Now, what about the internet side? The people on really my side of the business where I spend almost all of my time B2B internet, is there an opportunity for adult internet people to do B2B business? Yes, of course it is. For some years ago, we didn’t have a special section or kind of this, but since last year again, we have a totally separated B2B hall where you can only get entrance via a B2B visitor or as an exhibitor or as a media guy. There we have, of course, also some classical trade people for pleasure products and these kind of stuff. But we have also a lot of companies from the internet section like we have a verification system, we have payment provider and this year we put it much more into also a fan site and fan site agencies so that we get also some of the companies and the other companies there. So we created one on the Friday, we created a fan site meetup, which is sponsored by Creator Terrific, Andy, where we get these kind of data. We’re doing some panels and presentations because we have, of course, also about 1000 models and talent there. It’s also very good to know. Last year we had the first time like a moor lounge, we called it, where it’s also very good for sites or agencies to find the direct contact to these models and making direct business. Of course, AI would be an issue this year also, that it’s still one of the main actual topics in the industry. So we started last year again with it and this year we built it much more bigger, so that you can have a small lounge there or just come as a beauty visitor and meet all the people because the people are there. So yeah, it’s really good opportunity to see their part of the industry. Who exhibits at Venus? Really it’s, as I told before, the big campsites and fan sites. For example, it’s like My Dirty Hobby, Visitex, Bunga Camps, Drip Chats, Camp 4, these kind of known sites, of course, which are actually doing in the German market because we have international visitors, but of course the main part is this from German speaking countries. We have also talents from doing their own businesses. Then we have lots of pleasure products and companies around. We have also like a booth where they are selling vaginas and peanuts from chocolate. Just something funny thing. So there’s also like a thing, obviously, there’s also some tattoo studios doing tattooing at the Venus because we want to show the whole thing and the whole experience for a visitor. So you get really everything and of course you can, lots of shopping booths where you can buy clothes and then any kind of sex toys and related things like what you need for your good sex life at home. And that’s really good. And of course, all the shows, we have like one hall where it’s a big show stage where we have every half an hour ongoing shows the whole time. That’s very important. Next to this, we have also a fan area. That’s where we are models, came for less money, have a little booth and experience. And that’s also very, very well accepted because there are a lot of girls coming and men coming there to see their fans. Just how international is Venus? How many countries are represented and where do most of the companies come from? Most of the companies come from Europe, of course. We have like of course all Western Europe, but a lot of companies coming from Eastern Europe of course also and Spain and Italy and France, Portugal. We have a lot of companies coming from Asia, especially from China. Sure with the pleasure products, yeah. Yes, it was a pleasure project because they are just the product, production companies directly come there that you can buy better products directly from the production company and not through a wholesaler. Yeah, from the US of course, companies are coming. It’s around like I think last year we have like 48 countries, different countries where the people, exhibitors come from and also visitors coming from. The brand image of Venus is really well known all over the world. So if you go to Australia or Southern America, I don’t know, Brazil, and you ask, you know, what it felt the world happening in Germany, then they know the Venus first. So that’s where we have really, yeah, it’s really good for us. You mentioned the B2B hall. What actually happens there in the B2B hall of Venus? Yes. First of all, you have all these kind of trade things coming like production companies from Germany and also from China where you can buy like bulls and sex toys and these kind of stuff. And as I mentioned before, the B2B section for the rest of the industry, the internet industry, like we have some payment provider there. We have, as I talked before, companies who are building CMS products or website products, the age verification thing and registration thing with the bid thing in Germany. And as I mentioned before, we’re building up these like fan sites agencies where we have a lounge with a bar where you can just sit around, meet the people, have talks, get contact to the models, or bringing everybody together for networking and making business. That’s my band. There’s also like the program for panels and presentations. So that’s for free. So everybody who is interested to do their presentation can contact me or Venus anywhere. You can have a short presentation of a company, of your product, or you’re doing a discussion about things, you know, like on other fairs, these kind of stuff. That’s all combined in this hall. And if you go there, you have always a bit of unity to see, of course, also the rest of the Venus where all the shows and other things are happening. That’s a good combination to have. This is a quiet area where you can really have nice talks and have a drink. Exactly. That’s what it’s all about. What makes Venus the special mix of B2B and B2C? Yeah, on the one hand, you can do business or new business or meet all business partners for a long term business partnership. And on the other hand, you can see what is going on in the branch. You can see how our, what our consumers thinking or what are they doing, actually, because that’s very important. If you’re running a website and you want to know what are people looking for and it’s changed, you can feel the trends, what’s going on, what they are looking for there directly. And you can talk to them if you want it and can talk to all your business partners and also to your, like other companies are doing the same business as you. You can see what are they doing, what are they showing and what is coming up new. You get like a good feeling what is going on in the industry and where you maybe shift your business or continue your business. And I think that’s very, very good for that. Okay. Now, as I go through the trade areas of Venus, who am I going to find? Give me some examples. Yeah. For example, as I told before, the main exhibitors were in our consumers’ parts, like a B2B launch there. We do the fan sites meetup with Creator Traffic. So of course, we have all the fan sites there, like LoyalFans, like BestFans, that will be there. But also the big sites coming there will have their B2B page. And so, for example, if we have myDirtyHobbyBoost in the main hall, there will be an Alforce booth in the B2B section. Now that we got a combination of this, that bring their consumer teams and also their affiliate teams and sales teams there. And also, like we have BunkerCamps, such as BeforeStrip, Jet, VividX, I don’t know, hopefully I don’t miss anyone, LifeJasmine. So you can also meet them there. And like, I would say 90% of people who are working in the branch and the industry living in Germany or around Germany, they will be also there. So there are a lot of people you know who will meet them there because they know it’s part of the year program. After all the shows in October, they come to Venus and have a good day at the show and a good night at the party. So you will meet a lot of people you know from other fairs there. Excellent. Talk about some highlights of the show this year. What are you going to do in 2024 that’s special? First of all, the good thing is we are already very well booked. Like we really packed fair. It’s really good. We have a lot of people who are going to be on the show this month, high this year and from exhibitors, from sponsors, also from consumer side, very good on selling tickets actually. That’s like because last year after Corona again, it was a start and we have the feeling that it’s really going bigger and bigger and better again. So the feeling is very good. And so we’re playing a lot of good things. We part with the fans at Meetups. We make some changes in our pinky hall. We have last year make a brand new show stage. Was really known areas and lounges for our we have like gold and platinum and silver visitors and we’re doing parties in this area at the evening. So we tried it last year, first time. We’re doing a big B2B party on Friday the 25th in our fair hall, the show hall where we have really a nice stage with a lot of good sound and light acoustics. And we do also there a party for consumers on Saturday. A big party. I cannot tell any details yet, but it will be really, really big. We will have again lots of new shows integrated in the fair and we will grow of course also the educational part for consumers because we get a lot of good feedback there last year from the consumers to bring more educational stuff there. And that’s also for companies where we could possibility to show up and to show their knowledge one in what they are doing to the consumers. Talk a little bit about the educational part. How big a part of Venus is that? Last year we have like I think about 10, 12 panels and presentations and this kind of part where people show pleasure products, but pleasure products has also like a medical part for women and also for men. People for men there were some products showing against problems to getting any reaction. For women you have like things for how to use pleasure products after pregnancy. Then we have all things about like what kind of gender am I? What kind of gender are there in the world? What kind of sexuality? I really like people getting more open to ask these questions. We try to give them open-minded answers. Is there an insecure how they are feeling? We try to give them with some experts explanations about it. Yes, and then about some special sex practicates we have like like panels and presentations. But everything is normal. Everything can happen. We have a domino so giving answers about what is possible? What can you do with a domino as an SM studio? So we try to build all questions with coming up because you have to imagine that for example on our social media channels we are getting a lot of questions from consumers. We think we are, I don’t know, the main answer giving sides for sexual questions. So we try to give them a feedback. And also we have lots of people coming to Venus who wants to be part of the industry as a cam model or on a fan site. It’s also very big. Today they have the first look. How is it going? They can talk to other models. What they are doing. And so that’s also like a first step if you come to the industry to see how it’s going and to meet first people. Interesting. So how can people find out more about Venus Berlin? The best thing is to come to Berlin in October of course and to see what’s going on there. I can tell again that you can register to be a visitor for free on our website. That’s no problem. You get a free ticket and then we take for that. Of course you can go on our website Venus-Berlin.com. You find us of course on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, X, sorry. And sometimes also on TikTok, but if you don’t get abandoned there again, you know these kind of problems. Oh, I do. I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But of course we are doing a lot of social media activities and we also had some fairs around the world. Of course at the TES and PROC again. I don’t know where we’re for, but that’s where it’s set. And my colleagues were also in the US in January for XPS and AVN and these kind of stuff. So we’re trying to be everywhere and then be present and yeah. Fantastic. So it’s Venus-Berlin.com is your website. Yes, exactly. That’s correct. Very good. Walter, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on Adult Site Broker Talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon. I say thank you very much for the possibility to talk to you here and see you in Berlin. My broker tip today is part nine of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later. Last week we talked about what information to provide a potential buyer. Here’s more. Tell them what’s special or different about your site. How’s it unique? Make sure and include a list of all the websites you’re selling in addition to any domains that come along with the sale. Is there anything that adds value to the sale? Provide them with any additional information upon request. Before giving a buyer any information, have them sign a non-disclosure agreement. If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don’t know, Adult Site Broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours and they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price and any payment terms. Before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources, of course. Let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or trending down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally, it’s in the two and a half to four times area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time if the profit is taking a nosedive. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be speaking with Katie of Blossom. And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Walter Hasenclever of Venus Berlin. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]