This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Claude Lai of X10.

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Now time for this week’s interview my guest today, an adults say it. Broker talk is Claude of ex tan Claude. Thanks for being with us today on adult. Say broker talk. Hey, how

Speaker 2 (3m 30s): Are you? I’m

Speaker 1 (3m 31s): Good. How about you?

Speaker 2 (3m 33s): I’m pretty good. Pretty good. Trying to stay cold. It’s in the middle of the summer here, it’s gotta be over a hundred degrees. So the last month or so every day it feels like anyway, so yeah, it’s just trying to stay cool. Well, indoors,

Speaker 1 (3m 45s): It will be cooler by the time we run this, cause it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be towards the end of September or so. So hopefully it’ll cool down. Hopefully it’ll cool down by that. Now let’s tell everyone about you. Claude has spent over 20 years in north America, building websites for both the adult and the mainstream industries. You started working with some of the pioneers of the adult web back in the early two thousands building custom CMS platforms where some of the first adult websites ever launched. He developed new ways to automate photo and video content and caching systems, as well as introducing the first recorded in live video streaming platforms, clod has developed and deployed thousands of adult content, membership sites, video on demand, live cam, and many other types of adult and mainstream websites.

Now, Claude has also worked in the mainstream and the adult space with virtual reality implementation smart TV and mobile app development, clods hunger to find new solutions and innovate. New ideas has always driven his passion for new technologies. He’s run a very successful business for more than 20 years and is instrumental has been instrumental for thousands of clients to reach their goals of launching and deploying their adult or mainstream sites with a focus on scalability, monetization and usability.

The company is based in LA and Amsterdam. Now X 10 is almost a year old. It’s a cumulation of 20 plus years of adult experience and combined a hundred plus years with their team of programmers, designers and marketers X 10 revenue licenses exclusively the X 10 platform X 10 a 301 content management live cam and fan platform. It’s an enterprise level platform with over 18 years and real world deployment and use extend is a multi-site solution running from one admin to deploy thousands of membership cam video on demand and hybrid adult business models, all from one content pool, XN revenue also offers SEO marketing services and automation services to re promote any adult site, no matter what technology they’re using to manage their websites.

And I recently I’ve had some demos on the platform for a consulting client, and I’ve got to say it is quite impressive now, clot, besides what I just mentioned, what is X 10, 11?

Speaker 2 (6m 20s): So X 10 revenue is a combination of, as you, as you were saying, 20 years of experience in the adult business that I’ve had. And basically coming from a point of, of, of trying to solve for the unsolvable. This is where I’ve always made my, you know, made my niche. What’s something that’s always driven my passion. And what I like to do is to figure out what someone else hasn’t figured out yet. So as you’d said, I came from a, a background of the innovators of the web, which were video and, and figuring out how to get video live streaming and things of that nature for the first time to the end-user.

And always trying to figure out how to make these things redundant, how to make things to be, you know, to work across all different platforms and how to make it also the most important of everything was how to, how to keep retention and how to convert. And those are really always been the same things. And so when we talk about the web today and, you know, and things like Tik TOK and all these newer platforms to us newer, because of course I’ve been around so long, it for, for me, I just, I, what I see is just another interface, a better interface than the last interface for a better way to say the same thing over and over again.

And ultimately just another way for people to monetize whatever they’re talking about and whatever content that they’re creating in order to, to make it the, the, the most efficient way to get a, to be basically what I create to the, from the creator to the, to the publisher. And everyone becomes really their own creator and their own publisher. So the X 10 platform, as you had said in a, in a very, you know, long and detailed way, which I appreciate very much, you and I have known a shelter for many, many years, many, many years.

And the, the culmination of it was that again, solving the unsolvable. So, so why go and, and run WordPress or run a CMS or run a live cam platform or run multiple membership sites or custom make membership sites. So coming from a background that I have of custom making and spending half a million to over a million in some of these sites, still running the same platforms today, that I was initially a part of to create something that is modular, easy to use turn key, and that requires no programming and is, and you’re able to just basically decide on what business model you want to run for, what kind of site then you have.

So one, one being the, the fans platform, which is basically a kind of an only fans clone, but also again, being the kind of person I am and the, and the, the team I work with making it to the next level. So what is, what is it doing? But then let’s, let’s take it to the next level. What is, what are the things that, what is it, what is it doing and what can we do to the next to the next level in both in the usability point of view, but also in the monetization options. So not just have a membership for models, but also have things like, you know, paid messaging or group messaging or interactivity and usability, and giving the user the F the sense that they’re buying into a single profile, even though it may, may be run by a agency, or it may be run by an individual model, or in any case it’s about the interactivity and having constant feedback from the model to the, to the user and back and forth.

The CMS of course, is a membership CMS, which is similar to very, you know, very traditional adult CMS, basically content is protected or not protected. So you have trailer content and you have protected content, both photo and video, digital downloads. Those kinds of things are things that are very much either selling clips or selling photo sets, zip files, or selling content that is protected or not protected. And then the other one is, is, is adding into that, of course, the video on demand concept, which is pay per view and pay per minute and, and limiting time on content, where it expires after a certain amount of time.

And then, and then the, and then you’ve got the cam system, which just adds on to that all of the other modules that I’ve said, but also allows you to go live and do pay per minute and tips and, and use a live cam system that we that’s almost like nine, nine years old now, but we’ve added it into and combine them all. And re re what we did in the last year is we redid the entire backend and front end of our platform to make it scalable, to make it more secure and more user-friendly. So working with my team, that I’ve proudly been able to kind of reinvent the, the way that the whole front end looks to the user side.

So the entire user side has been redone. And then the model side, which was really the most important to everything, which was how the model is upload content, how easy is it for them to upload on a mobile or a tablet device, or a computer or a computer with different screen resolutions or, and, and do things make sense the way they are. And is it intuitive? Is it, is it easier to use or was it, does it require someone to go in and, and, and, and manage that? One of the, one of the things that one of the things that have changed for us that I’ve noticed a big shift in the last few years has been the, the shift from old school at the administrator owns content.

They purchase content, they make content, they create content. And that, that, that administrator learns buys our, our system licenses our system and spends, you know, days, months, years building their website, their brand. And we train them on our system. And even though our admin is very ha has over 146 items in it, we try to make it as simple as we can, but I’m a very big techie. So I put everything in the, in the, in the, you know, kind of in the kitchen sink when it comes to, you know, what, what I want to give feature wise.

And sometimes that kind of comes back because then it ends up being so complicated or at least seeming so complicated because there are so many choices and our manual is over 600 pages and counting. So the shift, as I’ve said, has been almost all our clients. Now, the admin is really just used as a way to, to check revenue, to pay models. But the, all the, all the, the, the magic, all the content management side of things is all done on the front side, by the, the, the dashboard that the model has.

Right. And that’s really what’s changed. And that’s why we shifted all of our effort into how do we make the model dashboard be really the primary focus, because that drives the model, the model drives the revenue. They re they drive the traffic and the traffic drives the income. It’s, it’s, that’s the real shift of what’s what’s happening in the, in the PA in, in, in these days.

Speaker 1 (13m 21s): So how has your company different from others that do what you do?

Speaker 2 (13m 26s): Again, we, our team has been, has been over in the 20 years of making. So we have a hundred, really a hundred years combined expertise. And what we, what we do is we take our marketing arm when we take our technology arm and we take our, you know, SEO experiences. And really it’s, it’s it’s, as I said, it’s the combination of all of this, this knowledge being brought into, into what our clients have requested. So for example, we just added an automation module and the automation module that no one else has, and it’s been very taken it’s, it’s gone very well and received well, is that the ability to, to automate the, the publishing of content from our platform, in any of the different business models or hybrid business models, be able to upload them and then be able to publish it out in Cigna, suffocate it all the way out to say PornHub or clips for sale, or, you know, any in any social media and almost in instantaneous, or in most cases, almost instantaneous saving thousands and thousands of dollars on all of the, you know, on the time that it takes to actually do that stuff manually.

And it’s, it’s more than that because it’s, again, thinking of it the way that, how do I make money? How can I, as a, as an, as a, as an owner of this license system, who has a domain, a logo has content make money by publishing out into the world without having to create, you know, this is really the crux of what you’re asking is why, how was it different? How are we different? It is that we, first of all, have we really catered to a tour, different, higher level kinds.

This is why you said enterprise level multi. When you talk about multisite and you’re talking about multi-language and multi-currency and custom theme design, you’re talking about a scalable system. We have one client has 115,000 active users, and over 56,000 active models that go in and upload every day, this is, this is a scalability level that we, that we deal with and has 20 different sites and uses does. And that’s, I mean, basically everything, everything that you could ever think of, they are, they are doing. And then, and I guess that’s kind of what you have to do these days, you know, in order to compete, you have to be trying to do everything that you can to pick up money in every way you can.

Right. I think that’s the difference. And so the marketing arm is the search engine optimization that we can do again, another team that we have, some of these guys, some of the guys that are, that work with us on, on, on that side of things have worked with some of the very top, the review sites for adult, you know, porn review sites and those kinds of, so obviously they, they understand, and even some of the tube sites. So they really understand how to get SEO on top of the, you know, the top ranking. And they w they know that our system and they, and then we’ve created modules within our system to make it very easy for them to go in and make those changes, to make those, to optimize in those ways.

And then the head of marketing arm is really the, what, what, what has come to bear? I don’t you and I didn’t even have this conversation. It’s actually come, come to us. APAC is sending something to everybody. Now that says that you cannot just upload content and let the models run everything. You have to approve their content every single time. And so this is something that MasterCard just came up with. Yep. I can, I’ll send you the link after. It’s just something that’s. So now we’ve had to, again, adapt with this, and you can, you know, you can say, well, I can go to Bitcoin, or I can go to something else, but ultimately, you know, it, at least, you know, today it’s still visa, MasterCard rules, everything.

So knowing that we have to basically make adjustments in our system, which we’ve already done in most cases to, to, to turn that on so that it can get compliant. So basically there is no, there is no, it does. It does. It, it does create more work for some someone else. And that’s why we have a whole team of people that does that do that kind of, we call it marketing too, but it’s really more and more marketing and publishing, you know, help. And that is something that we can also offer as well, where you, if you’re, you know, if you’re stuck, every solution has a problem, Bruce.

That’s, that’s, that’s how we look at it. Yeah. I, I’ve always, I’ve always enjoyed as, as you mentioned, in, in my buyer, when you, you know, innovation is, is the key. So we know everything is always moving along and a problem creates a solution. So the MasterCard says we have to do this, and now we have to make those changes. So those, those are the things that are coming down the pike. I don’t know if every billing company is going to do that, but I know that I’ve been trying to get some, some real merchant accounts for some users as well. They don’t like the word fans.

They don’t like to have the idea that they really, the idea is yeah, the, I did the, the, the, the, the idea is that how, I’m sorry, what did you say? No, I’ve heard

Speaker 1 (18m 19s): Of the, that they don’t like the word you’ve heard

Speaker 2 (18m 20s): That they don’t like fans. Right. Which is really crazy. Right. Cause it’s just a word there’s a lot

Speaker 1 (18m 25s): Of crazy in the world.

Speaker 2 (18m 28s): Yeah. There is. So that, that, that, so that’s just new recently. I mean, I’ve, I’ve literally gotten an account activated pretty months ago with the word fans in it. No problem. And today it’s a problem. And so, and this is the thing that, you know, you’ve got fan type sites who are moving away from adult because of the fact that they’ve getting constantly bombarded by, you know, the, the, the regulators who say you can’t do this and you can’t do that then. And so, and, and, and, and it all comes down to the income.

It all comes down into who, who is taking that money. That’s what it is. And when you’re talking about credit cards, you’re talking about chargeback risks and compliance and things that are always, that we’ve known for many, many years that we try to mitigate. And so that’s where, that’s where all of that kind of comes from.

Speaker 1 (19m 17s): What’s the difference between a CMS and a live cam and fan platform.

Speaker 2 (19m 23s): So, as you said, the X 10 platform is an all in one. So it has all of those, right? So SCMS is, is traditionally just in our system. The way it works is we, we configure different logic on each type of theme. So there’s a theme that we deemed to be a CMS type theme. And that CMS type theme is only allows content to be either turned on or off. So basically you have trailer sections and you have, it’s a very traditional looking, you know, there’s a, there’s a home page and a model page, and a updates page and a photo and video page.

And when you click on any individual content, you’ll see, you know, a detail of that listing and I’ll have a title and a description and a screenshot. And basically that is what you’re talking about. A trip, what a traditional CMS does an adult in the adult space. There’s add to favorites, there’s add content. There’s, there’s all the things that, that traditionally most CMS is do. But the, but the crux of it is, and unless it’s a CMS VOT hybrid, which it could be, but in most cases, as I said, it’s, there is premium content that you pay for.

And then there’s a free stuff you can look at in most, in some cases you can in the photo section, for example, and this, our system does all of this. Of course, if you want to only allocate say two or three images to be for free, and then have the rest to be prepaid, you can do all of that. If you want to add watermarks. So you can do that. You can also offer them as digital downloads for a price so that, you know, like a zip file that they can download or not. You can make a photo gallery that basically expires after a certain amount of time.

And of course the video could be ingested either paying by the minute or by the clip or by time. So let’s say I want to expire the clip in a certain amount of time. That’s really the CMS. The cams is, is all of that, but the focus then becomes who’s live at the time. So when the, instead of going to the homepage of a CMS, that you would see all of the photo, video content updated, and what’s, you know, what is the latest content? What’s the top viewed content, that kind of thing in the live cam platform, really the focus becomes who’s life at the moment and, and who is right.

And, and that’s the real focus and all the profile images are of the top models. And when you click on the top model, again, it has CMS functions in it, which are the paying for content downloading a digital digital download file, or maybe even paying for a membership. But that gets into the membership of the entire site, not for the fans, which is, this is the difference of the fan. So the cams might have a, a membership component where you can get access to certain amount of content or discounted content.

So you might get a 50% off of all content photo, video content within the system. If you pay X a month monthly, or maybe instead of being 2 99 a month, you can do 1 99. If you’re a member, we have that, we’ve done that for many years. We have, we have basically a tiered pricing on almost every kind of pricing so that you can go in and choose. And this is like I said, where it gets really, really, really, really complicated to do want to know what, what are you going to offer your users and not to have 14 different options on your homepage?

But sure. The difference again, versus is that we work directly with the clients, right? We don’t just, we, we, we, we try to find out from them and spend time with them and say, what is exactly is it that you want to do? What have you already doing? And in some cases, one of the things that we do, we have had a lot of good success with is also porting over clients. So clients, our whole thing is are you stuck in the mud? Are you stuck in the, are you stuck in the, the, the old way of doing things? Can, can you actually, you know, go into using our free in one system to take you to the next level where you’re no longer stuck in just a one dimensional CMS of open and closed, where you can actually offer what I’m going to offer.

All these that are options, right? The fan system just adds that component. But instead of, instead of being all the live models on the homepage, the models that are really the top rated models and live is not really there could be a live component to it, but it’s really in the background. It’s not the number one mechanism for making money. The one number one mechanism in a fan’s platform is going to be the, the model membership really that’s the crux of it. So it’s, and it’s, it’s more interactive.

So alive cam is interactive. In the sense, if the model is live, you can talk to them in the CMS. You might be able to review or comment on something, but the fan system, the idea of that is that you are joining that model. And that model is going to be a available to you to talk to you. For example, we have a, we’ve just added a question or a functionality. So you can, you can go in and, and a model can actually make something like, would you like to see me where this tonight?

And yes, no, maybe, or, you know, choose your favorite color for me to wear or something like that. And that is something that every user can contribute to and feel like they’re a part of, they can also request custom content. So the custom content can come from a direct user that says, I want to see this video. I want to see you in this video and I’m willing to pay this much. And the, and there, it’s almost like an escrow system where it goes back and forth where the user makes a request. The model says, guests I’ll charge this much. The user pays that much, that money is held until the model uploads the content.

And then it is released once the content is accepted. So that is our custom content, I guess, I guess an escrow system, we’ve also added physical products to all of the, all the versions of the CMS or the themes that we have. But like I said, it’s, it’s really just, you know, the fo what is the focus on each type of CMS and or business model I should say. And what is, what is the way that, you know, is the best way to, to make the most money? Obviously the fans platform that we do push more than any other free at the moment.

It’s funny how these things kind of go always in, in cycles. So we had, you know, CMS be so, so important, and then everyone went to cams and now everyone’s going to fans and then maybe we’ll go back to CMS. I don’t know, but it just, it always seems like to be in cycles right now, the fans is really, I think it’s, it is what it is. It’s the encompassing a, a, a white mainstream feeling, you know, very light on, on, on, on, in, on design.

And, but it’s, it’s, it’s ultimately the, the, the, the feeling of being not on an adult site, it’s like, it may be, it, it triggers people on certain ways where they don’t feel like they’re joining an adult side. I’m not joining, you know, just, and it’s also the feeling of not being part of a mega site. So I’m not going to be joining some big corporation that, that, that has all these models. No, I’m just gonna, I’m just, I’m just joining this one model and I’m communicating, which is one model on an individual basis. And that’s really the, the key, I think, is that, is that sense of, because, you know, when you go to Twitter, for example, and I, and I, and there is a huge, huge following for us.

Anyway, this is part of the things that we, we always analyze. And we know that Twitter followers convert really well into fan followers, right? So people that look at stuff for free on Twitter con you know, typically will convert pretty, pretty well into the protected content. So if you on Twitter and you have stuff that’s out there, that’s, you know, teaser and not really the full length image of a photo content or video content. And basically say here, see more of me on this. Here’s my fans profile.

It, it converts really well because you’re already interacting with that end person that gives already a, person’s already tweeting with you. Oh, I really love that set of yours. I really love to see more, oh, you know, come see me here, you know? And so it’s, it’s kind of like that, like what I call the funnel, the funnel between, you know, going into a social media account, like Twitter, not like Tik TOK, like YouTube, even where you’re really doing things in a very soft way, but you’re bringing people in. And we’ve seen that, that compared to say a model profile on a camp, a version, or a CMS that might have the models profile page, the fans converts so much more because sure, the way we do it is, is, and as you, as I’ve demo demo to you, the last version of how we do things and me being someone that’s very much into usability is that we, I, we really, I really get into full length, you know, video for the top of the profile page, you know, full width on the screen, you know, thinking about what, what are the most important icons to see first?

What is the, what is the membership options that you can see first? And also for us, it’s we have a blurred out version of all the content. So it’s, it’s important for us to also at least I I’ve, I’ve seen it convert really well, where if it’s not in a Mo a lot of fans, you know, very traditional fan sites today, they don’t show anything in the profile page. And, and I know some of that’s because of, of, of SEO ranking and things of that nature, which we will also, we, we talk, we talked to our clients about that and they can always create sub sites without platforms.

So I, you know, the idea of the, of the free in one CMS is that you can create, there’s no limit to how many domains you point to the platform. And the idea is that when you pointed to one, one, each domain goes to that one platform, the admin basically can manage just by a click, which domain goes to which content goes to which domain, right? So you could have a unique in all your business models to go in different ways. So some models could be only on the fans or owning the Cannes and only on the CMS. And so this is really the, the, the architecture behind it.


Speaker 1 (29m 28s): Well, let’s get down to the bottom line here. How can X 10 make me more money if I have a site?

Speaker 2 (29m 36s): Right. Okay. So on two folds. So one is the, on the, on the side of the technology side and the other one is on the marketing side. So on the technology side, the idea that the idea that we’ve always said is it’s three new up from being able to just say, here is a, a traditional CMS. So typically there are two types of clients that will come to us. There’ll be the clients as established client, and they have ten five, one site, whatever they have a multitude of sites, maybe they’re running a, some kind of affiliate program in there.

You’re going to be two ways. They go, they’re either going to be high of licensed to CMS already, or they made their own. And in most cases they’re just stuck. And what we do to make, make more money for them is to offer them a full turnkey package of just not just marketing, but also support. How can we, we want to grow with your business. And in some cases, we actually do part partnership deals where it’s not just a strictly a licensing deal where we grow with you grow our, our, our retainer goes higher as yours does here is how much we can get you in an entry-level on a platform, which includes the, in the instance of someone who already has a site, what is it going to cost for a migration?

How do we go in, how do we move everything over to you to, to our system? What’s that gonna cost? How can we, how can we come in at a lower cost than that? As part, as part of our partnership, seeing that you’ve already got revenue, but also freeing you up from the limits that you might have right now, because of whatever technical infrastructure you have. And those limits may, may just be because you’ve already had a CMS that you built, that that’s really just antiquated and stuck, or it could be something that’s really kind of a one trick pony, as opposed to our platform that isn’t cause we have an affiliate module.

We have a newsletter module. We have, I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s nothing under the sun that we haven’t already put into our system. That very, very little that I’ve ever seen. Someone come to me and say, well, it’s only, we only put don’t want, won’t put it in. If it doesn’t make sense to us. But in most cases we have everything we’ve, we’ve disabled most of the items because most people don’t even use them. So that, that is, that is how we are different. And the support that we provide is text is phone. We are a us company. We aren’t out there.

You know, all our, all our team is here, that that can help you. And, and we, we being a us and, and, and having a European add, you know, as well as, as here, having that ability to be, to be present and to be, to be, to provide good support. I mean, that’s, that’s really the difference. And it’s, it’s text, it’s Skype, it’s and our conversations with our partner, clients in many ways are two way. And they’re about growing their business. How will you as your business grow?

And, and now, and again, that encompasses the, the a hundred years combined of our team to say, yes, don’t, don’t do this. Don’t do that. This is what’s working the best. This is what’s working the least, this is what you should be doing today. This is not rather than in many ways, being a, here is a system. Here’s how much you’re going to pay monthly. And here’s here is, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, how much money you could probably make, because everybody else can kind of make that money. It’s more about what is the bigger scope of how you want to, you know, grow your business really.

And I think that’s ultimately what it is. And it’s also about being stable. So we offer, we offer options as auto CMS is do as well. Where, where, you know, you can host it on your own server. We don’t want to own, you know, your, your, your, you know, your world. If you want to manage it yourself, that’s fine. We have API APIs, you have templates. We have, we provide almost everything you need in order to customize it yourself. So you don’t, you don’t clients don’t have to feel like they’re, they’re locked into us. I think, I think that’s, that’s what it is. It’s, it’s that feeling of being locked into something, which I, I hate.

So I kind of built my own system for myself, the way I would want to do it and my own company, the way that I want to do it, which is don’t lock yourself into anything and be innovative. We’ll know

Speaker 1 (33m 52s): Why. So why would, why would someone hosts their

Speaker 2 (33m 55s): Own platform? So, in, in some cases they might scale above what we, what we can handle, right? So that’s a custom client that might have 15 or 20 sites. They might be doing X amount that it’s better for them to manage it themselves. The better deals. If they’ve got relationships with the hosting companies, and they got higher scalability than we need to be, because we don’t need to be in the middle of that, right. Ours is kind of like a, you know, a, a barrier to entry. So, so, so what we’ve done is take away every barrier to entry.

We have, we have hosting connections, we have billing connections. We have, you know, design connections. We have things that well, you don’t have to worry about, you know, that we, those barriers get broken down so that you can, but on the flip side, there are people that come to us and say, oh, I want to buy the system out. And how much is that? And I don’t want to host it myself fine. And I want to do my own billing company finds all every component has to, and then a bruise tip.

Typically those kinds of people are the people who have migrated from a social media or a, what I call a tertiary platform. So using like a fans platform or a, you know, a, a vid, a video platform or something like that, or eclipse platform where they’re coming in from something else that they don’t manage or control. And in some cases there may be, there’ve been okay, but they had friends that have lost their accounts or had their accounts banned or terminated or suspended.

And so all of that comes from that fear. It comes from that sense of, I need to now manage and control my own domain, which is exactly, exactly what it is. If you’re a brand, if you’re a brand that sends, and these clients typically are the ones that have, like I said, either bigger sites or they are established, you know, models that, that know they are a brand. They know that their social media is in 500 K plus range or a million, even as far as followers go and they know who they are and what they are.

And, and, and they want a platform like ours to say, I want to buy it. I want to control it. And so they don’t even want us on the contract when it comes to the hosting, which is fine, but it makes sense because then it can move it to anywhere.

Speaker 1 (36m 14s): Yeah. I will say you guys are extremely flexible and we, you, you do do definitely knocked down the barriers to entry, for sure. So, so give me a couple examples of how your platforms being used right now.

Speaker 2 (36m 29s): So we have one, one client who came from another CMS, they had we’ll have four or five sites. Their niche is in the fetish niche, and they wanted a certain look. They actually gave us a very strict criteria, said, look, we have, we already have so many users. We are already on this. We want to host it in this instance, w we don’t want to change hosting. We just want your system. And the problems of the current systems that they were using were lack of support, lack of accountability that was coming from the, from the CMS provider.

So we’re not getting the response we want, how quickly they, if there’s a problem on the CMS, they’re blaming the hosting company, the hosting company is blaming the CMS and just do what they want. All that to stop. This is, this is their headache part of it. Also, they wanted to add the fans platform. So that was a real attractive thing to them. So it was solving multiple, multiple issues. So in this instance, we migrated over their design completely to mimic their original current design. So the user wouldn’t even know that they were moving over to our CMS.

That was one of the criteria. I mean, it’s not a hundred percent, it’s probably 95% the same. Obviously we’re not going to rebuild the entire CMS to be this, you know, functionality, why some of it, because our function, some of our functions they don’t have, but usability wise and look wise, everything was copied over and content wise, you know, you’re talking about four terabytes of content and in this instance, and so that took about three or four months and they went live and we now switch over to fine. They got the head start, they have membership sites, they have a fans and a cam site.

And so this is an instance of, and they’re all running on the same admin on the one server on the one, you know, on the one domain on the, on the multiple domain platform version that we have. And, and not a client was similar to that, but on a higher level. So they have more sites. They, it was cost. Everything was custom had to be custom, made nothing, nothing could be used from the original system that we have pretty much, they added new new competition, for example. So Mo users can, can, you know, click on a particular photo video set and all that week.

So it’s like a weekly competition. And then whoever wins, the model gets a little bit of money from the, from the, you know, a little bit of a bonus check. And these are all kind of custom modules that we had to create in this instance. And, but it was very traditional adult. So it was, you know, they have a kind of a girl girl version and the single girl and a, and a glamour and a amateur. And so it was all of these traditional niches in their membership world, but now they want it to move to the fans and they wanted everything to be combined at once.

So when a model signs up, they can, they check the boxes. So yes, I am amateur. Yes, I am glamour. Yes, I am this, can I submit my content? And as I said to you, Bruce, the, the, this company being the really on the cutting edge of, of billing and everything else that we’ve been doing, they they’re the ones coming to us saying everything has to be now approved. So we have to get that in place, but they were already doing it. So this, this company is based out of the UK and they basically have in Europe, as you, as I’m sure, you know, the compliance slot more stricter, especially in the UK than, than most of Europe and most of the world when it comes to adult.

And so they, they had to, you know, they, you just can’t, for example, there’s no, there’s no real explicit nudity on, you know, on their side, unless you, you know, you you’d log in and there’s no, there’s, you know, there’s a cookie, you know, you know, agreement requirement, there’s a enter exit page. There’s all these things that are required. And on top of that, which they already had, which was when a model uploads, a certain amount of content, any content that kind of goes into pending phase, it sent a message gets sent to the administrator.

The administrator is able to go in and approve it and then be able to, and then be able to, you know, put it live basically. And I think that happens on every single stage, but one thing that’s also key has been also the ability for the model to sell that content to the administrator. So even on the fans system, which is really a unique way to do things, is that the fan, the, in the fans platform themselves, the model can say, I, I, I have, I have a piece of content that I would love to sell to your, to the membership.

Awesome. So I don’t know, beyond just selling it to the, to my fans as a, and get a percentage of, I would also have a buyout of, of whatever X dollar is going to be, you know, to sell that into the membership CMS and the administrator can, can counter that. So we have that in place as well. So you can actually still sell the content, which also has to be approved. Okay. So, yeah. So

Speaker 1 (41m 30s): What about hackers? We hear about a lot about that these days and security, how does your platform protects to protect against these threats?

Speaker 2 (41m 39s): We have on the, on the, on the security side of things, we have the user side, we have the ability to block users via IP via too many times. If they’ve logged in incorrectly, their user account can be, can be suspended. Of course, the administrator can manage all of that. That’s on the, on the user side, on the model side, it’s a similar thing where if you try to log in as a model too many times that also gets suspended and block on the admin side, of course, that also has, can happen. So we, we have, we have these, you know, thresholds of how many times can you do something and then get, get blocked?

How many times can you try to, you know, brute force attack our, our admin or model or user login section? So that’s the thing we’ve had for many years because of, of, of client requests. Again, one of the, one of the things that would add to that in the, in the, in the recent years has been, the administration area can be in a completely different domain than the main site. And that domain can be hidden from anyone externally only by seats, either via VPN or IP address or by a URL re redirection.

And, and so that there are ways for us to make sure that that no one can even get into the admin, unless we want them to, we can, we can, we can turn that off and on as, as much as we want. So right to the IP right down to a URL right down to a sub domain or, or, or, or a, sorry, a subnet, not a sub domain or even a sub domain, but so we can create these different domains in order to protect the admin. The other thing we can do with what we’ve done recently is we did a complete audit of our entire software using using a, it wasn’t even an automated system was actually using a company that is really into finding weaknesses in our PHP script.

So there they look for like PHP injection, for example, other other PHP injection basically, is it, can you, can you, can someone go into any of these scripts, for example, the login scripts, and be able to inject fake data data, and actually be able to be able to either gain access or add data to the database constantly with, you know, without actually stopping, because that could cause that can clog up your server for example, and create a lot of denial service attacks. So we’ve just recently done that. We’ve just done an audit of that and fixing all of those issues, obviously going into the latest versions of PHP, which are always important and, and just really coming, trying to come up against any issue that comes up protecting the content.

Of course. So we work with CDNs that will protect the content on, you know, on either a URL basis. Only that URL can, can actually pull that content right. Or using some kind of some kind of session key in order to make sure that they, that content can not be, you know, cannot be like stolen basically. So you’ve got stolen content, user IP issues, and you’ve also got the, the side of the, you know, making sure that the scripts are the latest and the greatest.

I mean, there’s no I can, anyway, anything is hackable, if you really want it to be sure you have to just stay on top of it. And also, I would also say that we, the way we’ve always done things, we don’t collect any sensitive data. Like we let the bank, we let the banks and the credit card companies do that. We let the gateways handle those sides of things. Sure. Our, our, our, our sites, our PCI compliance. So it, it, it, we do run those PCI tests just like we do our own gateway systems. So it is possible, but it also comes to really Bruce.

It comes down to also having, as, you know, a really good relationship with good hosting companies that, that really knows security that can go in and lock down these scripts that can see when there is someone trying to interfere with the network or affect on network.

Speaker 1 (45m 32s): Okay. So what does it take for someone to start their own site

Speaker 2 (45m 37s): Using our platform? All they need to do is sign up. We have a hosted version that that’s a very low monthly price. It’s really just like, it’s a couple of hundred dollars more than just hosting it yourself, really having your own hosts. So it’s kind of, it’s almost like you’re for a couple of hundred dollars, you’re getting your own license and a host. So it’s almost, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s really low. And the, the idea is that you, you sign up, you point your domain to our platform and you just talk to us about what kind of version of our platform you want, whether it be the CMS cans or fans, and keep in mind, those can be a hybrid.

So there’s no reason you can’t have the cams on the top and the fans and the bottom and the CMS on the, on the very bottom. I mean, there’s, it’s not, it’s not a one trick pony. It’s a higher, it’s a, it’s a fully hybrid system. In most cases, clients kind of tend to decide to do more than one domain for each TMS because users get really confused as to what they’re joining and why I think branding is very important. So it’s not a good idea to do that. I mean, you can do, you can definitely merge cams and CMS, for sure. You could do clips on the bottom membership content on top some model profiles below.

And it makes total sense. You know, here are some lines, here are the live models. Here are the clips that you can buy. And here’s some membership stuff you can, you can become a member and get access to. That makes total sense. I think the confusion becomes when you start doing the fans version, which is always why we say you should either have another domain or a sub domain is because that needs to feel like a social media site, more so than the main site or main sites. So I sign up, add a logo, choose your colors, change your website, the info, contact us page terms, conditions, privacy, et cetera, go live.

We, we, we train you on this, you know, we’ll, we’ll sit down and we can actually do this for you, with you. You need to, that’s not a problem for us. And, and you get an hour of training when you sign up for the system. It depends on the, if you get an unlimited license version, then that can go up to five hours, which is a lot of hours to set up and running. So our whole thing is just, we just want you to get up and running. How do I, how do I sign up as a, as a user? How do I sign up as a model? How do I change my logo? How do I change my colors? How do I change the pages on my site? That is really the crux of, of really what you need to know in order to go live is, is how do I become a model?

How do I pay a model? How do I manage a model? And, and, and like I said, before, we keep in mind, we, we have painstakingly and always, always influx, trying to make the better and better and better version of the model dashboard to be the simplest easiest. There’s no training needed. You know, it’s simple. If there’s a profile page, there’s a, where do I change my pricing page? Where do I change my subscriptions page? Those are really created because we’re obviously we’re mimicking ever sites.

We’re seeing what everyone else is doing. And we don’t want people to model specifically to, to, to become so far away from what is traditionally seen already to not feel that this is completely foreign to them. And that’s a really, really important part of it. Sure,

Speaker 1 (48m 47s): Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. So Claude, how can someone get ahold of you?

Speaker 2 (48m 52s): Yeah, so it’s I have a phone number too. It’s (818) 851-1059. Oh. They can go to X or X We also have X X can stop com and X So we’ve created sites for every kind of product as well to, because some people have, you know, it makes it easier for them to understand what is the system and what is the kind of platform that they want, even though it is a frigging one, you get all at once.

We do market them at different sites because it makes it easier for some people who are, I’m looking for a fans and I am catering to that kind of product. Right.

Speaker 1 (49m 34s): Right. Yeah. Well, Claude, I’d like to thank you again for being our guests to Dan adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again. Soon. My broker tip today is part five of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about how to determine the value of a website, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement. What should be in it while your attorney will guide you through the legal side. But here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint, what is the date you’d like to close?

Make sure, you know, you’ll have the money to either pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date. I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. In fact, I went through one of those recently, make sure that all the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records, including 2, 2, 5, 7 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites.

Of course, it should spell out any payment schedule. If there is one who is responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow, and there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller situation, this assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement. If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your legal representative so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week we’ll be talking to adult industry writer, Ralph Grecco. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Claude Lai. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 1 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Raja of Chargeback Help.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website at adult-site-broker-dot-com.
We’ve added some enhancements to the site, such as FAQs, and a complete new platform.
The look and feel of the new site are nice and up to date.
The new site also has links to our marketplace and affiliate program.

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And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale. The first NSFW social media platform in the world. The web app benefits from innovative technologies that enable over 960,000 members to instantly share their sexy photos and videos via computer or mobile. Today, the site has more than 200 new members signing up daily with zero spent on marketing. These leads are essentially coming from organic SEO, word of mouth and premium backlinks.

The site has received great articles and top magazines such as Playboy daily dot refinery, 29 and more in 2019, the site started recurring subscriptions, which made it a more private platform since only registered members now have access to the content while it impacted the traffic on the platform. The user base is now very valuable as the site only accepts verified users. There are now over 60,000 active members. Average time on the site is over 10 minutes.

The site has a team of four super-users moderating the platform to ensure there is no illegal content among the photos and videos. Also there’s a report feature so that every member can report content that might infringe on somebody’s writes.

Speaker 2 (2m 60s): The site gets most of its traffic from the USA, Brazil, Mexico, France, and Spain, all this for only $843,000. Next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, coral and Juul will welcome male performer and producer, Texas bolster, but you can find the hanky panky and wherever fine podcasts can be heard. Now time for this week’s interview.

My guest today and adult site broker talk is Raja Choudhury of chargeback help. Roger, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Now. Raja is founder and CEO of chargeback help. Roger has worked in the e-commerce space since its infancy in the nineties, starting out as a merchant entrepreneur, Roger gained extensive experience in payment processing and its risk. In particular, you notice the chargebacks and fraud cost him and his peers, significant time and resources to deal with.

And in many case, colleagues were losing their processing entirely. So in 2013, he co-founded chargeback help to help merchants fight back against fraud and chargebacks. The venture has since grown with offices in the U S and Europe with clients ranging from small high-risk businesses to enterprise level firms with large merchant portfolios, chargeback help currently provides dispute management solutions through an essay S S platform called chargeback help. Plus the platform integrates a variety of tools that not only help merchants reduce chargebacks, but also allow them to recover revenue from friendly fraud and even prevent the disputes that become chargebacks from ever happening in the first place.

Chargeback help has its roots in adult. Now, Roger, maybe you can tell us a little about yourself and how chargeback health came to be.

Speaker 3 (4m 59s): You did a pretty good job in explaining here we are. We, we started off as merchants in the adult space. We’ve run adult offers for, I can say decades now. I can’t believe I can say that. That’s really true.

Speaker 2 (5m 18s): We’re both old. Now

Speaker 3 (5m 21s): We were having, we were having an issue with chargebacks and we were given an opportunity by a company called verify to become one of their first reselling partners in the, in the adult space. And that’s sort of how we got our start.

Speaker 2 (5m 40s): Now let’s talk about where did charge backs come from? And maybe you can explain the more for the lay person

Speaker 3 (5m 48s): Ashley. One of my pet projects is to help people understand the birth of chargebacks and why we’re in this mess to begin with. So in the 19, we have to go back all the way to the 1970s. And the 1970s is sort of when credit cards starting becoming popular in the U S and the government needed the credit card companies to come up with the way so that consumers could dispute a transaction with the credit card companies.

And in the 1970s, the consumer protection act was born and they created charge backs, right? So this system that we’re dealing with now has its roots to an, to a commerce space in the 1970s where there’s no internet, there’s no recurring transactions. Everything had to be done in person. So the, the idea of a chargeback was that it would, it was never supposed to be designed for a card, not present situation.

It was never supposed to be designed to be done over the phone or over email or over fax, right? The chargeback space has simply evolved to those sectors because no ones, no one until very recently has decided to overhaul this chargeback process. Again, that was started in the 1970s. But thankfully it looks like these are MasterCard are making some significant changes to the, to the dispute system.

This call is sort of about an opportunity to talk about those changes and how they’re going to affect all merchants and what they can do to be prepared for them.

Speaker 2 (7m 44s): Interesting. Interesting. And when do you think that they’ll have those, those rules and regulations finished?

Speaker 3 (7m 53s): I mean, I’ve been talking about them for a couple of years now, and these, I was supposed to launch them April of this year. They delayed that until October of this year. It is my opinion that they are going to miss the October deadline as well. And we are probably looking at a soft launch, maybe next April.

Speaker 2 (8m 19s): Now, I guess, going along with this, the card networks want to retire the term charge back. Why would they want to do that?

Speaker 3 (8m 28s): Well, again, the term, the term chargeback is archaic and it’s not really descriptive of exactly what is going on, which is simply a dispute between a merchant and the consumer. So the term chargeback is supposed to represent the settled transaction, where it has been determined that the liability lies with the merchant and not the, and not the consumer and not the actual process of the dispute.

So what we’re going to do now is we’re going to go back to very, very basics. And we’re going to talk about these things as disputes, which is what they are simply a dispute between a merchant and a consumer. Okay.

Speaker 2 (9m 15s): Okay. Now explain dispute management for us and how it goes beyond chargebacks.

Speaker 3 (9m 21s): Sure. So dispute management goes again, every time there’s a point of contention between a merchant and the consumer. We’re going to call that a dispute and not simply a chargeback. And what visa has done recently, and MasterCard will as sued to follow is they’ve created mechanisms that allow merchants to send back transaction information directly to the consumers, issuing bank at the onset of a dispute.

Meaning that right now, what happens is you have this process where a consumer gets to call their bank and simply state their side of the story. And the issuing bank has no idea what happened on the merchant side. Well now through a product called order insights for MasterCard, sorry for visa and consumer clarity for MasterCard, the consumer’s bank can click a button and request more information regarding that particular transaction that the consumer is disputing.

And in real time, the merchant has the opportunity to send the transaction data to the issuing bank and show the issuing bank that the consumer did. In fact, make this purchase did receive the goods or services and did interact with the product right

Speaker 2 (10m 43s): Now. Now, how does chargeback help provide dispute management for your clients?

Speaker 3 (10m 49s): Well, so we, we are connected to the visa and MasterCard dispute this new system. We then therefore, so we do charge back end to end. At the beginning of the dispute, we send it, we send the information to the issuing bank to help persuade the issuing bank that the transaction is in fact, not eligible to become a chargeback and the liability side with the consumer. If the, if the, if the issuing bank still believes that they want to proceed with the charge back then it becomes, it gets diverted to an alert.

And at this stage, the Merton, the merchant has the opportunity to accept the liability on the transaction refund, the transaction and the charge back will go away. The merchant also has an opportunity to be like, you know what? We still want to fight this charge back through what we call the representant and then the merchant can tell the issuing bank, you know what? Go ahead, file the charge back. We’re going to represent. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (11m 56s): Tell us more about the representation.

Speaker 3 (11m 59s): Sure. Represent is once, once it has been, once a chargeback is received by the merchant, they have an opportunity to file some paperwork and some documentation to show that the chargeback was in fact, a valid transaction and that’s the consumer should be liable for the purchase.

Speaker 2 (12m 19s): Okay. Are you, is this done in most cases?

Speaker 3 (12m 23s): No, it has done in very few cases. I think that the actual representation stats are something like 10% of chargebacks are represented. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (12m 35s): Why

Speaker 3 (12m 35s): Is that? Most merchants don’t don’t know how to do it, or they’ve tried a couple of times and they’ve either done them wrong or they didn’t submit enough documentation. And so they’ve, they, they lose a couple of represent mints and the packages take some time to put together. So they decide it’s not worth it.

Speaker 2 (12m 55s): And you do that for your clients.

Speaker 3 (12m 57s): We do. I mean, that’s one of our core businesses is we, we put together the packages on behalf of our merchants. We are very good at automating this process so that we connect through the merchant via API, and we gather all the data electronically and then put the package together. We also connect to the merchant cake, our merchant bank accounts, our merchant accounts, so that we can pull the chargebacks directly from the merchant accounts.

And then together without me put the packages together through integrations to the merchants, gateway and CRM.

Speaker 2 (13m 36s): Hmm. That’s great. Now let’s talk a little more about compelling evidence as it relates to adult. What’s the best data for adult merchants to use and fighting chargebacks.

Speaker 3 (13m 48s): The more proof that the merchant can show that the consumer integrated with the product or use the product to better off the merchant is so login history, any content that they viewed, any customer service emails, any phone calls, if they, if they are using a call center that records the phone calls, we can even attach a, a, a voice file will allow the issuing bank to play the message.

Any, if it’s, if they have chat history, if it’s a dating site, they may have chat history between the consumer and a potential date, or if it’s a campsite, they may even have cam to camp, which we have submitted is one of my favorite. One of my favorite methods of proof is when we have cam the cam evidence of a consumer using the product,

Speaker 2 (14m 41s): I love it. I love it. Now, how can adult merchants prevent unrecognized transactions? It’s a real challenge since adult merchants have to be somewhat discreet and what descriptors go on a customer’s bank statements, you know, for instance, it’s, you know, XYZ Inc or whatever.

Speaker 3 (14m 60s): Sure. I mean, the answer is that they, once they, on, once the consumer goes to the URL, first of all, they should all be using a URL in their descriptor so that the consumer has a destination to go to, to resolve any disputes that they might have with their transactions. And, you know, you through some very basic, like email and last four of the credit card, they can see all their transaction history.

And if they want to cancel their membership, they’re able to do so. Or if they want to dispute their last, their last month of a member ship, they’re able to do so for their last token purchase, whatever it is, you give them electronic means to dispute those things. And oftentimes it’s better just to refund the last transaction and, you know, keep everything else. Got it. That’s step one. And I was gonna, I was gonna say as well, there are a number of tools that they can use to help prevent fraud, such as AVS check, which is address verification.

Right. You know, you can make sure that the address that they’re entering on the credit card page matches the same one on their, on their billing page, on their building profile with their issuing thing. Right.

Speaker 2 (16m 25s): Okay. Anything else?

Speaker 3 (16m 26s): Yeah. I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s 3d secure, which we’re messing around with, as some people know, 3d secure doesn’t protect adult transactions with visa. It does on MasterCard. I hope that’s true. I always get that confused, but I know that 3d secure 2.0, looks like it’s going to work across the board for all adult transactions. So we are playing with it. But if we are, it does result in increased declines, which a lot of merchants don’t like, obviously.

So we’re trying to balance out the 3d secure protection along with making sure that we’re giving the merchants as many transactions as possible.

Speaker 2 (17m 8s): Well, yeah, I mean, you decrease your declines, but you also, you know, to greatly decrease your chargebacks in the long run, you could be out of head, right?

Speaker 3 (17m 18s): Well, that’s the balancing act, right? I mean, if you, if you want to minimize fraud, you can decline every single transaction. You’re going to have no fraud and have no business. So what we do is we try and we try and accept the mouth, some amount of fraud while maximizing the revenue. So there’s an inflection point that happens in the data where you’ll be like, okay, if we, you know, let’s say we turned off AVS, and now we’re getting a whole bunch of approvals, but the chargeback is too high.

Then we’ll turn AVS back on for a merchant. I mean, okay, that’s an acceptable level of fraud where we’re mitigating. Most of it, our chargeback ratios are women acceptable levels and away we go. And that’s sort of what we’re, where we specialize is helping merchants really maximize their dispute prevention while at the same time, I think their revenue, it is not, you know, even though we are in the business of selling fraud prevention data, it is not our goal to sell as much data to our consumers.

It is our goal to sell them only the data that is relevant for their business.

Speaker 2 (18m 29s): That’s awesome. Now you’ve obviously been in this industry for a long time and you’ve, you’ve had your own sites for a long time. What kind of an advantage does that give you in dealing with other site owners about their charges?

Speaker 3 (18m 44s): Well, I think that, you know, some of our competitors have never been merchants, so they don’t actually understand all the costs that go into running a website, like affiliates, traffic, customer support, you know, they’re not, they’re not trying to, and we also understand that merchants are trying to maximize their retention revenue to maximize, you know, everything. And we, because we understand every single factor that goes into running a successful affiliate type business or friggin affiliate business and a successful e-commerce business, I make, it puts us in a position to understand our merchants predicaments.

You know, oftentimes we tell our merchants, for example, that we know that the affiliates have to get paid first, right? Cashflow comes into account. If we could help our merchants out, we’re more than willing to help our merchants out by telling them that, you know, you have to pay the affiliates first. And I understand that. Sure.

Speaker 2 (19m 49s): Now give us the lay of the land in dispute management. The sick this sector has seen a lot of changes in recent years, who were the key players. I mean, obviously the card networks, visa and MasterCard, but they’re, they’ve also brought, they’re also brought in on the dispute space as well. So tell us a little more about that.

Speaker 3 (20m 10s): Obviously dispute management starts with, with the card schemes, visa, MasterCard, American express discover may have recently acquired a couple of companies. MasterCard bought a company called Ethica and visa bought a company called verify. We were, we started off as resellers of both Ethica and verify and with their recent acquisitions, by the card schemes, we are now direct partners with visa and MasterCard visa, and MasterCard don’t have a relationship with merchants or consumers.

They have a relationship with issuing banks and acquiring banks. So what that means is that these are MasterCard are going to push these products out to consumers, through the issuing banks and to merchants through the acquiring bank. So recently we have built products to help, to help acquiring banks connect these products to merchants. So acquiring banks, for example, have no idea how to connect to a merchant CRM, but we do it helping a client thinks, you know, visa and MasterCard have been asking, acquiring banks to deliver these products to their merchants.

And we’ve been helping the acquiring banks become able to do so through a white labeled our system or through an API integration, or are we do the back office support or the acquirer or the ISO? We do it a number of different ways.

Speaker 2 (21m 40s): Okay. Now is everybody in adult considered high risk? And if so, why is that?

Speaker 3 (21m 46s): Yes, everybody in adults is considered high risk. The answer is very simple. The, the number of disputes in our space is higher than it’s higher than the norm. Sure. Visa and MasterCard consider the norm to be a card present transaction. So any card not present transaction is considered a little bit higher risk, but you know, adult is obviously high risk. We are, we have to pay a high risk registration fee to build these and MasterCard.

And that is not going to go away anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (22m 24s): Okay. Now what are some of the, oh, I’m sorry, go ahead. This is true. Now, what are some of the common pitfalls or mistakes that high risk merchants get into?

Speaker 3 (22m 37s): They can get into taking aggressive traffic from aggressive affiliates, you know, affiliates who are maybe not telling the entire truth to a consumer, something like saying, you know, join this site and you’ll get a million movies. And then the consumer joins the site and there’s only 10 movies in the site, for example, well, that’s going to lead to a dispute, right? Because the consumer was promised something that wasn’t there. Yes. Right. Or they go to, or they go to buy a product and the login information takes 24 hours to get to them.

Well, in our world, these guys are looking for instant gratification. So that information better be there in seconds after them putting a credit card. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23m 27s): What else

Speaker 3 (23m 28s): On answering, not answering a pay support email within a few hours, right. Having, having a consumer call a support number and being put on hold for 20 minutes, those are all things that are going lead to that are gonna lead to disputes and therefore charge. Okay.

Speaker 2 (23m 48s): Now what kind of ROI should merchants expect from chargeback helps dispute management.

Speaker 3 (23m 55s): Interesting question. It’s hard to, it’s hard to quantify. I’m going to do my best. Okay. So it really depends on the level of interaction or the level of proof got the merchant has four between the consumer and their product. If it’s a physical goods product and the merchant is diligent about showing the shipping information and they’re requiring a signature on shipment while we win 90%, if it’s, if it’s a very aggressive dating, dating merchant and the level of interaction between the consumer and the product is minimal, we’re going to win 30%.

So it’s, it’s a wide range. And really, it really depends on, you know, the level of data, how much data the merchant can show us that shows the interaction. And again, to the interaction between the consumer and the product, that’s the most important thing. Okay. And we can show the consumer’s bank that they use the product. It was them that made the transaction to them. We’re going to win most of the time.

Speaker 2 (25m 6s): Yeah, no, there’s been a lot in the news lately about, you know, through the whole series of articles in the New York times, for example, and mine, geeky when lost, they’re processing it for a, for a brief time. So based on all that, what is the future of high-risk processing look like? Especially in the adult space,

Speaker 3 (25m 29s): It is my opinion that in the adult space, we should, we should, you know, let’s let these stories just go and help that they get buried. I think that the worst thing we can do is talking about them and, you know, and even ask for dialogue between the card, schemes enough. Yeah. The card schemes know we exist. Right. We need it. We need them a lot more than they need us. This is true. They would, they wouldn’t like these stories to just go away.

They don’t want to be, they don’t want to be tied to, or have, or be forced to make a decision on anything. No, it’s true. You know, they make good revenue from it, but they don’t need it. If it becomes a PR problem for them, they will dump it.

Speaker 2 (26m 16s): Okay. So basically the bottom line is let’s keep our noses clean so they don’t have more reasons to dump us.

Speaker 3 (26m 23s): Exactly. Okay. We are right. Those again, the witch hunt against, against PornHub was nothing a foreign pornhub’s doing there. It was, you know, about article, right?

Speaker 2 (26m 38s): Yeah. A couple bad articles actually. And yeah.

Speaker 3 (26m 43s): With a lot of line.

Speaker 2 (26m 44s): Yeah. You never heard back. That’s true. One, one merchant, I’m sorry. One, one writer seeming to have a vendetta against the industry

Speaker 3 (26m 55s): For years.

Speaker 2 (26m 55s): So how can merchants get in touch with you?

Speaker 3 (26m 58s): Pretty easily hardback We have a contact form on our website as well. They can email me personally, Raja R a J and can be found at most trade shows, buying drinks late at night.

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): Yes. I know about that part. So Raja and I hope we’ll be seeing each other at those trade shows soon, counting on, on Prague happening live. I guess they just did more. So the chances are

Speaker 3 (27m 34s): Got a couple of guys. We had a couple of guys in <inaudible>. They had a good time. The show was fruitful. I am, I’m going to be in New York or affiliate summit east next week, July 15th through 20th. And then, and then I’m planning on being at the, at the shows in, in the fall. I’m a little sad this year that there is no October Fest as you may or may not know. I look forward to that every single year, but 2022 will be a bigger than usual.

I hope

Speaker 2 (28m 9s): We’re all, we’re all counting on it. Well, Hey, I’d like to thank you once again for being our guest today on adult side broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon.

Speaker 3 (28m 19s): Thank you very much, Bruce. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (28m 22s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part four of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer. The work really begins. If you’re working with a broker, like say, oh, I don’t know, maybe adult site broker, we handled the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counteroffer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them.

A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go. If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day and any other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing.

You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and your developer should ask those pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself drop a sales agreement. I always tell my clients to pay an attorney and to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you make the rules, however, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney changed. Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on.

Another thing we do for our clients is to do a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all of the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow. For instance, this can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Claude from X10.

And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Raja from Chargeback Help. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Ava Durga.

Adult Site Broker is proud to announce the launch of our new website at adult-site-broker-dot-com.
We’ve added some enhancements to the site, such as FAQs, and a complete new platform.
The look and feel of the new site are nice and up to date.
The new site also has links to our marketplace and affiliate program.

And don’t forget ASB Marketplace, the first platform where you can buy and sell adult sites and domains for FREE!

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Visit ASB-Marketplace-dot-com and sign up as a seller or as a buyer today.

And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker.
Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale. That adult site broker actually our property the week this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available. In addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters right now, we have a campsite dating sites and pay sites available. We also have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons.

These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyer’s NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify next Monday on the hanky panky podcast, coral and Juul will interview Tony bones, adult male, performer, producer, and personality. You can find the hanky panky podcast, of course, at hanky panky and wherever fine podcasts can be heard.

Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult type broker talk is Ava Durga of circle of Q Ava. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk, thanks for inviting me. I’m glad to be here. It’s a pleasure. Now, Ava first discovered the fun of feminizing males in 2001 and began helping cross-dressers sissies and bi-curious males achieve their potential at the sissy parlor in south Florida in 2017. She’s also the co-founder of circle of cue.

Her work is focused on helping cross-dressers except their feminine side, which often includes the desire for receptive sexuality is a key part of their psyche. That should be embraced circle of Q as a private online social community and dating site for cross-dressers sissies. By curious men and admirers, it was founded by Ava and her friend, Rebecca Lynn, AKA sissy, Becca, to provide a safer, more personal alternative to typical sissy hookup sites.

Easy for me to say now, unlike many other sites, circle of Q doesn’t inflate its membership with fake profiles or allow bots and scammers. The site is growing organically with real people to learn more, visit circle of Now, Ava, how did you get started working with cross-dressers and sissies? Hmm,

Speaker 2 (4m 9s): Well, back in 2001 I’d been a corporate person, but I took a little adventure break from a corporate life. And I became the office manager for a large professional dungeon called the dominant divas in Fort Lauderdale, which was a couple of blocks from the courthouse, which was really a lot of fun. So one of, one of my jobs as the office manager was to do intake on clients and I manage the hire to manage the houseboys and hired to manage the mistresses. And I also did intake and client relations and that sort of thing.

So one of my jobs was to make them comfortable when they came in, show them around and match them up with a mistress relatively early on. There was one gentleman who came in. I still remember a very tall lanky blonde guy, maybe 50 ish. And he came in rather quiet. I’m showing them around, I’m taking him on upstairs. Here’s the bondage room. Here’s suspension room. Here’s the kitchen. Here’s the jury box. Here’s the, you know, the w the wheel and the impact playroom all these things.

And he’s following me like an obedient little puppy, just watching in very quiet. Like they all did. I got to what we call the sissy parlor, which I named my place after. And it was behind these two big French doors and I throw them open. And every time I tell this story, I can hear angels singing in the background because he, so I threw out the door and you’d have to imagine the sissy parlor was probably the largest room in the dungeon. It was full man, size, clothes, shoes, wigs, makeup, lingerie, fluffy things on the wall.

It was succinct Nirvana. And this guy, he stood there and he just, he almost went catatonic. I just saw him there, stock still. And then I looked at it, I noticed his eyes were welling up. Like he was going to cry. And I said, so what do you think? Or what’s going on? I wasn’t sure what to make of this reaction. And he opened it. We sat, he opened up to me and he told me a story that in the subsequent 20 something years, I’ve heard over and over again, yes.

Married, responsible, professional, built the career, had the kids, had the wife, loved his kids, went to Sunday school, all these things that he had discovered early on in his life. He got a really good feeling from wearing panties or putting on women’s clothes. Okay. I think he might’ve introduced this to his wife who promptly shot it down. And so he was doing what so many men did and do his, he was a covert, cross-dresser a closet. So he had a few, he had a few pairs of panties stashed and in gym bag.

And when he would have an opportunity, he would, he would wear them. Maybe he’d go off to a hotel and have his own. Or when he came, I think he was from the Midwest somewhere. When it came to Fort Lauderdale for a medical conference, he looked up and he saw there was this dungeon. So he just thought he would treat himself. And so he, he, he cause are there that many, like me other that many more like me? And I said, yes, you have to understand there’s a lot. So, and the story again, he had gotten married. He built the career. He put all these desires on hold, except when he could sneak it out, felt very guilty about it, but it was still very, you know, something that he couldn’t put away.

A lot of them don’t buy clothes. It’s the purge cycle ask any cross-dresser. Most of them have thrown away thousands of dollars of clothes, if not more, because they’ll get discussed with themselves and think it’s bad and shameful and throw it away again. So over. So he tells me, he told me this story, he really didn’t understand there were that many like him, and there was such a sense of relief that he wasn’t. And over the years I heard the same story. These are the cross-dressers that I work with are typically aren’t they aren’t trans women per se.

They don’t want to transition. They don’t want to be women all the time. They’re not gay. They just like going into this alternative space and which is actually relatively harmless. If you think about all the things they could be doing and all that, all the stories I heard and have still heard about, you know, marriage is being broken up issues that just because he likes to do this recreational, it makes them feel good that suddenly he’s a pariah is, you know, there are family issues. It’s really a big drama just because of this gender play.

And so he kept it closeted. And when you’re so, so many cross-dressers, they’re closeted, they don’t really have anybody to interact with. And it’s not necessarily just for play sexual play. Although some of them certainly want that. Some of them might be just perfectly happy dressing at home, but they want somebody else to, to know where to show somebody or to talk to somebody else. Who’s going the things that they’re going through. And that’s actually where a circle of, well, first when I, after I started the sissy parlor, which I guess I get back to, and then I, I started the blue bells meetup group in south Florida because there was no real social community for cross-dressers where they could get together and meets.

We started that. And within a year, I think we went from zero to 500 members in no time flat free thing. And then, but that really wasn’t enough. And so then eventually my friends to see Becca and I started circle of Q, which is an, a way to online for them to meet online and social lives. I’ll, I’ll re re wind a little bit to the sissy parlors. I think I left out a big chunk of that. So, okay. So after I went out of, I stayed with the dungeon for, it was under a year and went back to corporate consulting and doing my thing, but I still kept my toes in the water of the kink community.

And so, you know, I’d go. And so in 2017, I was at beyond leather, which is a camp conference in Fort Lauderdale. They’re not very good educational conference. And I was sitting next to a woman who at that time was an acquaintance. Her name was lady Katara. She was a headmistress of club femme down here and had for many years, been a pro Dom specializing in sissies cross dressers. So we sat next to each other at a cocktail party and started talking in general about cross-dressing and sissies and justification and feminization and what the I’m going to make very broad strokes here, what the typical dungeon or the typical kink scene did not offer, fell short for many of them.

Right. And part of that was a sense of belonging and acceptance, not so much the humiliation, right. And a feeling of community. And so she says, I think you, you have that vibe because I’m not a, I’m not a lead overbearing, dominant leather mistress. I don’t, you know, that’s not my style. It is a style that many likes, but it’s not my style. I’m more encouraging and developmental. And at that time I said, I don’t think I can be like, can I be a pro Dom? I’m rather affirming actually. Right. I really don’t enjoy tearing people down. I learned, enjoy putting them, you know, building them back up.

She goes that’s exactly. And she goes, that’s exactly the issue. Exactly the issue. So she said, I think you should go into practice and I’ll help you from a, be your mentor. So on, it was sort of, I rented a one bedroom apartment. She gave me some clothes. Other people donated things. And before you knew it, I had my own sissy parlor, which operated until, oh, it was great. It was great. Met the, you know, met the most wonderful people, the most wonderful clients. And then through the blue bells and finally circle of CUDA, some wonderful people.

So that’s how that came about. And then sissy, Becca. And I started talking because I had started something already sort of a smaller community where people would know each other because it came, they would say, do you know any other car I’m flying to London, miss Seva for business. I’d really like to have dinner with somebody there. Do you know any cross-dressers in London, miss save, I’m going to, I’m going to Denver. Do you know any cross-dress any friends in Denver who might want to hang out? I was like, well, there needs to be something like that. And so I started doing sort of a small way of my own.

It was going to be called friends of Ava and everybody had verification and I knew everybody and did interviews and such. And then Becca said, you know, we gotta make this bigger with that. There’s opportunity for some to reach a whole lot more people through a social community, a dating site. And she had being assisted. Of course, I had my perspective as a mistress and talking to my clients, but Becca had the perspective as a long time sissy, it was very typical and what was missing and what was missing out there in terms of connecting and communicating. And that’s how circle of cue then came about, was trying to create a community where they could meet.

They could get support, they could find playmates if they wanted, they could find buddies if they wanted, they could work and get information if they wanted, but they weren’t going to feel alone. And they weren’t going to feel like, like corporate prey either. I might be being a little bit harsh, but sissies are ripe for the plucking. They’re, they’re a, it’s a, it’s a large group. It’s a group that’s often marginalized. They don’t often fit into the trans umbrella, which is often protect. There’s a lot of trans outfit, trans resources out there, but they just didn’t have this community of their own and this way of interacting with people that was safe and they can get used to.

So that’s how circle of cue came about. And yeah, I’m, I’m really proud of what we put together there and are starting to put together anyway. So,

Speaker 1 (13m 37s): So what do you exactly do now? A circle. Q, are you a mistress?

Speaker 2 (13m 43s): Well, I still, I still, during COVID, COVID forced me to shut my actual apartment, the parlor. So I C I no longer advertise or take new clients for live sessions. I still have a fairly solid small group of regular clients who I have ongoing professional relationships with. And I work on night flirt and through my own on weapon and phone. So, so in that regard, I’m still a mistress in circle of queue my role as a facilitator.

Right. Matriarch, I guess. And so if, if I love, yeah, I, I, there was a time I wouldn’t have liked that term right now. I kind of liked that term. Yes. I’m boss lady of circle of cute, but I’m really not. The members are, and we’ve got some real personalities.

Speaker 1 (14m 30s): Fantastic. Now I hear a lot about cross-dressers sissies and trans women. What’s the difference?

Speaker 2 (14m 38s): So the difference between I’ll try to make this simple behavior and identity. So if someone is transgender identifies as a trans woman, we’ll keep it simple transgender. That generally means that the sex they were assigned at birth is different from how they identify now. Right? So if they were born with a penis and they were called a boy and they were assigned male, but, but they start recognizing that internally, they really identify as female.

Then that would be transgender. They are crossing their gender in a more permanent way. That’s part of their identity and who they are. They don’t really feel complete without that, you know, that, that being a main part of their life, that’s who they are with a recreational cross stressor, cross stressor. It’s more, I don’t want to dismiss it because it is an identity in a way it’s something that seems to be part of them. It’s not something they can just walk away from for years at a time and come back to without thinking about it. But it does sort of, it does ebb and flow with many of them, but it’s a recreation.

It’s a place they go when they put on panties. And I can even hear cross-dressers out there nodding, cause it’s almost universal. I say, how does it feel when you dress? There is something that comes over them. You can almost see a change in their demeanor and their personality. But if you ask a cross-dresser to describe what does it feel like when you dress? They have a hard time describing it, but they’ll tell you they have a hard time describing, but it’s powerful since I’m a CIS woman. I haven’t described, I haven’t felt I can, I can maybe relate to it in some degree because you know, when, when I go into a fetish party and I’ve got my, you know, I dress the part, there is something that comes over you.

I can’t really say it, but you’re in your power. There’s a psychological term called enclosed cognition, which is, there are measurable changes in people’s behavior perception, just based on what they have on. And even without somebody else they’re reflecting back to them. So I think, I think part of it that might explain part of it. I don’t know. One of my big, my, one of my big dreams in life is to find a neurologist and get an EEG machine and line up a bunch of cross stressors and, and measure their brains before and after they dress.

And if there’s any neurologists listening to this who want to volunteer to do this experiment with me, I’m looking for somebody who’s qualified. I just think that would be fun. It’s just a very toe in the water. Kind of look into what happens with the cross stressor.

Speaker 1 (17m 13s): Yeah. That would be 70 really interesting. Wouldn’t

Speaker 2 (17m 16s): It? And this is the first time I’ve verbalized that to anybody outside my small circle, but that’s sort of my brand. I know I’m the mistress, Dr. Frankenstein, right across dressers. I want to do all kinds of experiments on them when they have panties on and see what happens. But they, but oh, we were talking about how they feel. I think when they’re dressed, I don’t think that’s something that they can ever really completely put away. And as they, and that’s wrong segue into is as they, the reason I see so many older cross-dressers I think by time they get to me are a lot of them, their forties, fifties, sixties, I think the younger ones, there are more women accepting of it.

And their society in general is more accepting of gender crossing of all sorts. Sure. Whereas men, they get in their forties, fifties. I think part of it is cultural because they grew up with so much shame around it. But I think a lot of it is because they’ve spent their twenties and thirties and maybe forties doing everything everybody else tells them to do, right. Get married, build a career, buy a house, have some kids make a bunch of money, do all these things that you’re supposed to do. And if you want her panic wear panties to relax on the side of play, instead of playing golf, well, maybe you can sneak away and be ashamed of it.

But a lot of times they just kind of put it aside or they put it aside to a degree they don’t want to. Right. Then the kids grow and you start hitting a certain age and you look at the back nine and say, oh, if not now, when I’ve done this for everybody else. And what is the harm in me wanting to wear panties? What is the harm in seeing what I look like and full makeup? What is the harm in seeing how I feel when I put on heels and I practice walking with my pelvis, rotating across the room, all these experimental things, and a lot of them increasing and make the decision they ask, they’re going to experiment with it and they’re going to be more fully into it.

And the fact that they are able to have that sort of support network now through technology, that they were never able to get from family or spouses, or, and I’m not, I’m not, I’m not dismissing spout. I’m not saying dump your spouse and go be across. You know, it’s not that sort of thing, but it is a huge factor for many of them married to somebody. Right. And so, but I think there are an increasing number of outlets for them. And I think that’s good for their mental health. I really think a cross dresser who was denied, loses a very important part of their, in some cases of their sexuality and some of their ability to relax, to go into a different world.

I mean, what’s wrong. We hear all kinds of in the corporate world, psychological world play, why is play so important? It’s very important. But all the articles talk about play as being maybe vanilla sex or golfing or sailing or doing something like that. They don’t think of the fact that that going into an altered state, a parallel reality, or an altered state of consciousness during that few hours that they put panties on might be a very beneficial thing psychologically.

And then they take off

Speaker 1 (20m 27s): That and playing paintball. Right?

Speaker 2 (20m 29s): I don’t see any, I honestly don’t see any and it’s an outlet for them. And there’s a whole lot of reasons that men cross stress. Sure. There’s obviously, it’s, it’s, it’s a sexual turn on for many of them, for various reasons. Some of them, they find they might start with it sexually, but then just finally like to relax, women’s panties and nineties are way more comfortable than boxer shorts. T-shirts buy it by a mile. For many, it lets them exhibit a creative side of their personality or a flirty side or playful side.

That’s suppressed in their daily life. If you think Bruce about what’s in your closet and I’m only guessing, cause I might be surprised at what’s in your home. I’m never

Speaker 3 (21m 15s): Surprised. No, you wouldn’t be it wouldn’t be too surprised.

Speaker 2 (21m 20s): But think about a typical man’s wardrobe or walking through the men’s section in a store, you’ve got a very limited number of colors, textures, fabrics, and styles that you can choose from. You basically have a man uniform, you have a few uniforms to pick from right now. Women’s space. You go on and you can go on Amazon now, right? You can dress to the nines like a slut. You can have an evening gown, you can be pink or blue or purple or red, all these things.

And believe me, they love it. Love it. And so there, I guess what I think of cross dressers is a different part of their personality and it’s focused and it’s time limited and it’s space limited, but it’s still part of them. So if you, and it’s not something hidden, it’s just part that they tried out of the right time. So you can draw a parallel with any person that the guy who is exhibiting road rage and traffic and the same guy on his floor playing with his kid and the same guy, giving a presentation at work, they are going to be completely separate personas, completely separate reactions, completely inappropriate to bleed over into each other.

But they’re all part of that person, right? They’re just brought out at certain times. So cross dressing has a level of shame to it, but I still think it’s not that much different from imagine a little there’s going to be sex. It’s imagine a little girl in her Barbie kitchen. She’s five years old. She’s totally immersed in being housewife or cooking the gourmet meal or wherever in Barbie kitchen. Right. She’s totally, there cross-dresser goes in that same kind of mind space, not like a little girl in the kitchen, but in the, the, we were talking about the concept of play, right?

They consistently say, once they’ve had this playtime, that’s released, the pressure valve is off. Right. And they go back to man mode and they’re happy until next. That’s the difference between trans drag Queens are where exaggerated female clothing for performance. Right? And it may metal exaggerated, but it’s performance art, right? So that would be the bank. I’ve seen

Speaker 1 (23m 39s): Them here. I’ve seen the shows in Thailand and they are pretty spectacular. But when they had life, when, when they had live shows here, we went to one with, with a couple who were at her, on their honeymoon from our industry actually. And oh, what a show? What a show. So do cross-dressers have different challenges from training?

Speaker 2 (24m 1s): Yes they do. First is because, because transgender issues have come to the forefront, there are a lot of transgender sites and there are a lot of I’m talking about serious. Not, it’s not about quote unquote tranny porn, which is fetishized, but I’m talking about rosters trans sites. So when they go and they want to socialize, they often land as a support, poor stepchildren on trans sites. They’re not really transgender. They don’t want to be a woman. They don’t want to find a man for a long-term relationship necessarily.

They, you know, they, they just want to have buddies girlfriends, right. To talk to and cross dress with. And so on the trans sites, they’re often feel a kind of marginalized because they’re not transgendered and they’re not dealing with the issues that transgender sites usually deal with gender politics, identity, you know, these sorts of deeper rooted issues about changing your gender. Aren’t really applicable to them. Some of them are makeup and so forth. So that’s one, you know, the, the, the challenge they have, another one is, you know, how much of this, I call it a, a safe container where they can go into play space.

Sometimes they have problems, compartmentalizing, you know, how much can this bleed over into my real life? Because there, there is, there’s a lot of gray area, but those are the two main ones. I think those are the two main ones. Trans women have a little bit harder in some ways, because it’s harder for them to hide it because they are, they do want to come out and be themselves all the time. The cross dresser, they have to worry about keeping it hidden. And when they’re who to tell when to come out, whether to let it out, but they can, the cross-dressers can keep it hidden, right?

Pretty heavily closeted for a longer time. And with more sanity, I think, than a truly trans person, who’s denying their entire identity by, by trying to supply, having to step into another role for my, this recreation.

Speaker 3 (25m 58s): Right? It’s like, so

Speaker 1 (26m 0s): Two guys who cross dress identifies gay, straight BI or all of the three,

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): Depends on how you ask them. I’ve not known any who identify as gay. I’m not saying there aren’t gay cross-dressers but I think their numbers are pretty limited except as drag Queens, maybe panties. Well, here’s why gay men are attracted to male energy, right? Not female energy. Okay. So if someone’s presenting with female energy, they’re not going to be as turned on. The majority of cross-dressers I’ve worked with and still work with are identify as exclusively straight or bisexual or situationally bisexual.

Most of them are married, but this is a place it’s for many of them, the, they are interested in cock when they’re dressed. Not all of them are some of it, just, some of them is like, no, I’m a lesbian. The man’s body have no interest in cock, or they might have a fantasy about being seductive. It’s more about the fantasy of being seductive and sexy and desired. And a lot of them stopped the fantasy, but some of them do go on to that. And they, and if they it’s almost like the cock or the man is a very elaborate prop in the fantasy, the real cock they’re attracted to it.

Well, I could go on the south as a white was cross and admires, want to find each other. And why, why men prefer to find cross-dressers to play with in a real woman? And I think, well, I’ll just touch on that now, actually, I think, because I’m going to say some very sexist things here, but only because I’m speaking from the cross-dressers exaggerated perspective. Okay. Okay. I mean, you have to be very, very careful. I’m talking my, my girls, they, they want to be, they cry.

They love being sexual. When they’re cross dressed, they love the feeling of being feminine. They are curious about what it’s like to have sex as a woman, which makes them better lovers. In my opinion, they want to know what it, what it’s like to be the receptive one. And oh, why? Oh, why men? Like, cross-dressers better than having an affair with a real woman because cross-dressers are trouble-free. If let’s say there’s a guy I’m talking for the admires.

Now let these, there’s a guy. And on your show, I know I can tell, speak very bluntly. Right? He, once novelty, he wants to blow jobs. He wants fun. He wants something like that. Maybe he’s been married for a very long time. And novelty is just, it. Many people do seek out novelty, right? Yeah. He’s attracted to women, mostly attracted to women, but women try to find a woman as a friend with benefits when you’re married with no complications and no emotional demands and nothing of the store without pay is really, really hard.

Right? You never know. And most of these guys, again, they have relationships that they don’t want to sacrifice for just, you know, a Saturday afternoon getting a blow job well across stressor or sissy, they they’re driven to please they’re given if assuming that the sissy that wants a man and a lot of them fantasize about it, as I said, they, they just want to please. They want to be, yeah. Or they want to, they want to feel desired. Maybe they want to feel used and roughed up. Maybe they want to feel that a lot of different things, but they can get it without having drama from a sissy.

And the sissy can get it from a top without them the drama, either. Not that a man’s going to go interrupt your marriage. Oddly, the top is tough. It was a lot more at risk. If he wants to step out, if he wants to step out and play a little bit, he’s at a lot lower risk with the cross stressor than a woman. There’s no emotional entanglement beyond often a very deep friendship. These relationships can last for a very long time. These playmate relationships, you find a steady person that you like to play with now. And then so some people go out golfing. Some people go down to the ACE hardware and hang out.

And some people get together and wear panties and suck cock. Right. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s easy. It’s free. It’s clean. And, and you know, if I was on, I can’t say, cause I have a different perspective, but I was on the woman’s perspective. If my man was going to cheat, it’s far less risky to have him cheating with a cross-dresser than with a real woman. Right. Just less risky on all kinds of, well, not, maybe not, you know, we’ll talk about, you know, STS and things like that.

But from an emotional standpoint, right, you don’t have it. And yeah. And that’s all they want. And so they go and they go deepen. And even the ones who don’t want to have cock in real life, for obvious reasons, they still have involving a strap-on or involving toys or toys they may play with, at home to experience life as a sexual sexuality, as a woman in the field and to feel desired. Right. Because usually men have the men have to be the one who are the ones who are chasing and be so, yeah, it’s a big turn on for them.


Speaker 1 (31m 9s): So is, is cross dressing sexual and how does cross-dressing plan to a person’s sexual life

Speaker 2 (31m 18s): Cross dressing for the majority that I work with, it’s sexualized to some degree, but not exclusively. So it often starts out as a sexual charge. Some of them start watching sissy porn. It’s a turn on. Some of them have already been crossed dressing, and it’s a turn on over time. It often morphs into that still part of their sexuality and what I like to play, but they then just like it. They just like the feeling of the clothing. They like being able to slip into the softer alternate reality.

And there are a certain number of trans women who begin their journey as cross dressing, which you can, and it’s cross dressing is not a gateway drug. Any more than milk is a gateway drug for heroin. In my opinion, it’s just where it’s just where it’s happens to start with everyone. And some people it catches onto in some, I think almost every little boy who’s tried in his mommy’s panties or girdles or clothes. Not

Speaker 1 (32m 14s): That I recall. Not that I recall, but I’ll take your word for it.

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): Well, okay. Maybe you don’t recall, but maybe, and maybe you never did. Who knows? But a lot of them just, they’re curious, right? They’re pre sexual. They’re a little curious little boys umami. Mommy’s wearing a girdle. Well, for some of them it sticks and I’m not a psychologist, so I can’t tell you why it sticks, but it’s with them for the rest of their lives and, and maybe it, so, yeah. So for some, it is very sexual. And I would say for the majority I work with, it does have a sexual component. Okay. Decrease change. Yeah. So how

Speaker 1 (32m 50s): To female partners generally react to finding out that their man crossed dresses

Speaker 2 (32m 58s): That runs the spectrum. It runs the spectrum there. And there are a surprising number of women, especially younger women. But I think even older ones, if they’re already connected with a guy they’re going to be okay, they’re going to get it. It might, they might reel a little bit, but they it’s. I actually wrote a blog post about it called nine reasons to covet across dressing partner because I was so, you know, they’re women often they freak out and understandably, if they’re a straight woman and they’re with a guy and they’re attracted to a male and suddenly the male says he likes to dress as a woman and flit around the living room.

Right. And gets turned on by this, it calls, she ends up being, calling into question her own sexuality. It’s a, it’s a blow, right. It’s like, okay, what do I do? Am I not women enough? Or is he gay? Does he really like me? Is he still the man that I love? And it makes them also question if they don’t run away from it and stand to confront to the little, what are the purposes of a relationship? Why do I love this person? What’s important to me in this relationship?

Who am I as a sexual being? Who am I, how do I identify gender? And I’m not saying that these women all should stay with a cross-dresser this, if she’s going to shame them or really have an issue with it. What I’m saying is that there is often a knee-jerk reaction that is put into us by society. A woman dressing as a man or wearing a strap on is perfectly fine. You’re a big football player, husband who loves to wear satin and garters, not in addition to probably looking really fine in them.

You know, it kind of shakes your world, but I think once they stop and think about these eight, if they do address it, it becomes a stronger relationship. But to answer your question in a more succinct way, in my experience, the majority that I’ve met or heard of through my clients, they find out they don’t really want to participate enthusiastically or at all, but they’ll accept it, but they don’t want to see it because it changes their vision of their partner.

And if they’re not. And so that seems to be more common. I’m just, don’t ask them. So

Speaker 1 (35m 19s): What are your favorite things about the work you do? Oh

Speaker 2 (35m 22s): My God. I like, I feel like I’m liberating them again. Even going back to that first story, there’s, there’s so much shame. These are for the most part, really great guys. They’re partners, they’re good business people or employees they’re good parents, or at least they impressed me. Is that very responsible, right? But they’re, they’re alone in this one way, this one corner of their life. And so, and there’s a lot of pain that goes along with that when I’m able to come along, show them that they’re beautiful.

Even if they think that they’re not show them, that this part of them is acceptable. Not only me, but a lot of other people out there can appreciate and admire that and let them exhibit it and in a safe way. That’s how I see I’m getting teared up. That’s fulfilling to me. Cross dressing is what I I’ve chosen at this point and where I career to work with, because I feel that strong affinity toward that towards liberating, that part of them, it could be, you know, but it could be other areas that are, I’m going off into my own personal thing, but, but right.

That’s what I really enjoy about it. And because they can be really pretty, it’s really fun to watch them lighten up. I love my favorite part. My very favorite part when I have the parlor is to dress someone up. Who’s never been dressed before, but maybe they’ve worn panties or they’ve dressed a little at home to bring them in. And I think every other mistress who does this will tell you the exact same thing. There’s a look. So my thing would, I would be, I would dress them up and put their makeup on with. They couldn’t see any mirrors in the house.

And when they were finally done, I would take them in front of a full length mirror and tell them to open their eyes. I get chills even thinking about them when they open their eyes and they see themselves, their alter ego in full fem state, their face becomes just filled with wonder after a couple of seconds, it’s almost as glorious feeling. If there’s anything I can feel this thing that they say about that’s fulfilling to me and they’re liberated from that moment.

They know that there’s part of them. Yeah. That, that, that is, that is beautiful and accepted and they can indulge. And yeah. So that’s my favorite part, liberating them and making them happier.

Speaker 3 (37m 41s): Nice to know how

Speaker 1 (37m 43s): Is circle of Q different from other cross-dresser and sissy sites?

Speaker 2 (37m 48s): There’s a lot of cross justice to see sides. Well, I think one of the defining characteristics is that we were developed as it is a dating site, but it’s a community and it was developed by two people who were really involved in it. That’s one reason. So Becca and I are involved, I look at all the profiles. We, we, we have online events and do things we’re trying to make a community of real people. Another thing is that we don’t use fake profiles. So one thing that Becca was a star, it explains something for Baca.

I, I was shocked to me when we started the first iteration of circle of Q. We started with a different platform. It was a pre-made dating cloud format.

Speaker 3 (38m 30s): Mmm Mmm.

Speaker 2 (38m 32s): I was going to start saying something bad about the dating platform and forgot, forgot what it was probably when I was probably four. I know it probably wasn’t going to say that, but we, my, my thoughts diverged off, it was what was the original question? It was, it was that we had to rebuild the site because the payroll didn’t work. Oh, that’s right. When we, oh, that’s right. When we started building it, we did this. And, and, and with the package of this platform, you can this dating platform, this wonderful dating platform, we’ve discovered that you can buy fake profiles

Speaker 3 (39m 5s): By the thousands and just

Speaker 2 (39m 7s): Load them into the site. So it looks like you were full. And because I was looking at all these other side effects, like where all these fucking gorgeous cross-dresser models they showed they’re full and nobody ever answers me back. Or I only get, I get fem bots or I get pro Dom’s or I get all kinds of crap. What, you know, and, and where’s my email address going. And suddenly my profile is showing up on this other network because of whatever. And, and, and it becomes right. And so that is in fact good. That explains it. So I said, so we both agreed without hesitation.

We weren’t going to do that. The difficulty is, is that if somebody comes to a pay site and they go, Ooh, you got 5,000 people and really, really, really fucking gorgeous. Cross-dressers, I’m joining you versus we have 300 people, but, you know, w but they’re all real right now. Fortunately, people are understanding that they’re going for real, and I don’t want to bash anybody’s business model. I really don’t want to draw any EIR that way, but that’s our business model that we decided to grow very slowly, slowly and organically with real people and giving attention to real people, rather than just trying to make it a sort of a corporate here, let’s get as many email addresses as we can.

And then, you know, we can do so that there’s a, there’s a genuine caring for the cross-dresser community that we have that I don’t think is exist on other sites. Right? Those are, those are probably the two major differences in, you know, our engagement and we have, our participants are engaged. Also. We have zoom, socials and fashion shows and ways for them to get acquainted.

Speaker 1 (40m 40s): Cool. Yeah. I think you’re going to find that the vast majority of dating sites use fake profiles. So, I mean, that’s

Speaker 3 (40m 50s): Just, that’s just part of it.

Speaker 2 (40m 53s): And we questioned whether we should, because people said, look, you have a quicker start. Everybody does, everybody does it, but we decided we’re not everybody. Right. And if it’s not that, you know, Bruce, we’re Becca. And I decided from it and it, and it’s been a labor of love. It’s been over a year because the first thing I, the disaster we had to kind of retool and it’s just back on me, we’re not technical. We’re just doing what we can do. Right. But we both believe really if you’re doing the right thing, following what our guts tell us is the right thing to do. We might make mistakes along the way.

Certainly everybody else. But if we come at this with the right heart that is going to do okay. And if it flops, it just means there’s not a place in the market for it. That’s all. Sure,

Speaker 1 (41m 33s): Sure. Well, I think that from a marketing standpoint, you need to make it very clear that your profiles or real. Yeah. I think you have to make that very clear even, and even if you have to say, unlike some competitors

Speaker 3 (41m 49s): To do it

Speaker 1 (41m 51s): As a marketing guy from way back,

Speaker 3 (41m 54s): I would advise you to do that

Speaker 1 (41m 56s): And you’ll find you’ll. Yeah. And you’ll find your response will be better. So as we talk about marketing, how are you marketing the site? Do you have an affiliate program

Speaker 2 (42m 9s): Program? So we would love to have anybody sign up. It’s 20% recurring. So that’s nice to people there. So we have an affiliate program. We haven’t really done a really good job of marketing the affiliate program, because until recently we had, we had the doors open for a bit. The, we do have, we do have Twitter and Instagram and BDSM all, or we’re doing some of the social media. We haven’t done a lot with it, but getting there.

And it’s been word of mouth a little bit on FetLife, we’ve done some podcasts which has brought, what’s bringing some good things and helped me talk to some really interesting people like you and get good out of marketing advice, for example. But that’s it. So again, the marketing’s kind of organic word. We’ve recently put out a call because I don’t have time to write a lot of blog posts, but we want good content. We really put out a call for guest contributors to contribute to our blog on cross-dressing experience. Sorts of articles.

I’m know I’m forgetting something else, the events marketing, but that’s pretty much it for the TV. Awesome. What’s your

Speaker 1 (43m 18s): Vision for circle of Q longterm.

Speaker 2 (43m 22s): I’d like it to continue growing with the same feel it has now, at least a people, a feeling of community and people supporting each other. I’d like to get more into local events as well. Not so much sponsoring it. We’ve already got the blue bells in south Florida, which has sort of part associated group, I guess. But I’d like to, as we grow, I’d like to see more live events where people have local meetups, you know, in, in there might be a member who sends a call out and says, Hey, does anybody want to meet? In fact, we have forums for that purpose.

So if somebody wants to have an event or say, Hey, I’m meeting at such and such bar, does anybody want to show up with me? It’s okay to be dressed. They can do that. So I’d like to see more of that sort of opportunity and just to continue growing worldwide. We have members already from God. We got them from the UK, from Australia, from Al South Africa, from Bosnia, from Ireland, from Denmark all over the United States, worried about, so I guess 300 or something at this point. And by the time this airs, I don’t know, we’ll see how many, but, but that’s, my vision is to continue keeping the soul that we have and to being a community and support for regardless of where they are in their journey of their interest.

Speaker 1 (44m 35s): Well, Ava, thank you for being our guest today. Anna don’t sign broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (44m 43s): It’s been fun. I hope so too.

Speaker 1 (44m 44s): It’s a pleasure. My broker tip today is part three of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you leave the reach, the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site. They send you, the broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years. That’s up to date. If it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, get a username and password for the site so that you can review the content, ask how often the content is updated.

Get some history on the site, how long it’s been in business, the story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content and how much of it has current technologies like 4k, find out if all of the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller. If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the contents on find out how much the content costs to produce and what the current cost of production is.

Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the owner, do they do the shooting themselves or do they hire someone to do it? And if there’s an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what’s the retention rate of the site and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic ask for Google analytics access. So you can see where the traffic comes from.

This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. Then it’s. Then if everything looks good to you and you want the site, it’s time to make an offer. Only you can decide what the site is worth to you. If you’re working with a broker such as, oh, I don’t know, maybe adult site broker, of course your broker can help you determine the value of the site. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Raja of Chargeback Help.

Speaker 0 (46m 58s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Ava Durga. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with

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Speaker 2 (3m 13s): Hey, thanks a ton for having me, Bruce. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (3m 16s): Always great having you. Now, why not has been around since 1996, hard to believe at that time, their goal was to provide early online developers of adult websites with a central hub where they could network and promote ethical business practices. And what was then a largely lawless internet? The company has changed ownership several times since its early days eventually moving its core presence to the domain. Why and branching out with additional services for businesses today?

The company, why not group offers a variety of B2B services for adult companies? Why not also operates the blog? Why not Europe, which focuses on adult business news coming out of the EU. Now in early 2016, the company added why not shoot me a photo photo, journalism site and collaboration with veteran adult industry photographer, Buster brown recently, why not added? Why not cam an online magazine that offers tips and advice to cam models. In addition to its well-read blogs and resource sites.

When at group also operates popular industry events and collaboration with the biggest industry business conferences, why not grand Prix takes place at multiple trade shows throughout the year when there are trade shows and lets participants compete against each other and exciting and fun go-kart races. Plus the well attended wine out awards formal event takes place each year in Prague in collaboration with the T E S affiliate summit. The why not awards offers the adult industry and opportunity to recognize the biggest achievers in the adult online sector.

Now went out, also owns and operates. Why not mail a hosted email marketing and delivery platform that provides companies with a powerful platform for driving email marketing success recently, why not added the why not cam awards and why not community in Hollywood? Not to mention why not marketplace. I’m just tired saying all that before, before we went on, Jay and I were talking to you, I was like, God, I’m so busy with so many things. Yeah, I get it, man. I get it now, now.

Well, how’s it going, Jay? How’s it’s been a while.

Speaker 2 (5m 29s): It has, but I got to say that was pretty freaking awesome. The way you just like nailed like everything. And I’m like sitting here going, oh, he’s doing better than I would have done. I mean, you know, obviously you did some research and you probably collected, you know, writings that we have in descriptions here and there and everything, but the way you did it and everything it was, you know, it was pretty damn impressive. The only thing that’s really changed is the one at grand Prix. You know, we haven’t done that since 2019, obviously due to the pandemic and everything, but I think I’m going to get rid of that and do something different starting next year.

Yeah. I’m not sure what th the cart racing lads did for 10 years, which, you know, it was pretty amazing. We did probably shit. I don’t know, four on the average per year for events. So I probably did like 40 wine at grand Prixs so yeah, probably time to do something different, but yeah, all up. I’m good. You know, I’m all over the place I’m working, you know, ridiculous hours. I’ve also got a podcast going now called seat of your pants, where we’re interviewing models. And it’s just, you know, we just got to stay ahead of the curve. I mean, we’re doing as much as we can try and, you know, keep our relevance growing and you know, it’s working.

So there you go. Right

Speaker 1 (6m 38s): Now, we got some events coming up. Tell us about the wine out awards and Prague. I’m going to assume since it’s a live show that you’re doing this in person this year,

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): Correct? Yeah. We’re going to push through it. I mean, here’s the thing, you know, we, we did the wine out awards online last year and it was, it was quite successful for doing an online show. I’ve been doing it for 10 years now, every year in Prague at the European summit, also known as the TES affiliate conferences. It, it awards the business sector of the industry, cam networks and affiliate programs, hosting billing, you know, everything you can think of as far as like businesses are concerned.

And, you know, we’ve, we also award, you know, a few more companies that are part of the cam sector. We do some personal awards, like businessman of the year business, woman of the year Basadur cam model celebrity, stuff like that. We just tailored as good as we can for the crowd that typically attends the European summit. It’s changed and morphed a little bit over the years. Yeah. You know, we, we, we try to remain true to our roots and everything, and you know, not to be confused with the why not cam awards that goes on in Hollywood where we only award performers with the wine out awards in Prague.

You know, I’m not sure when this episode will air, but yes, we’re, we’re doing it in person. We’re being as safe as we possibly can. And, you know, I’m getting a lot of support and we’ve got a dozen sponsors on board this year and you know, I’ve already totaled up probably. I mean, I don’t know how many seats, VIP seats and tables I’ve got going on, but you know, I’m expecting that it’s going to be smaller. And that’s just the nature of the beast for right now. But I booked my flight. I booked my room. I’ve got everything. I mean, I’m ready to go.

I just, haven’t finished putting the show together, but it’s on. I

Speaker 1 (8m 30s): Wish I could join. I wish I could join you in Prague this year. But as I told you, I just finished a 15 day co we’re recording this in mid August. I just completed a 15 day quarantine hotel quarantine here in Thailand and yeah. Once was enough. Thanks. So if it wasn’t for that, you know, I’d be in Prague. That’s my favorite show. Well, sure.

Speaker 2 (8m 55s): Well, let ask you this, like after how many days were you starting to lose your mind? The first?

Speaker 3 (9m 1s): Oh,

Speaker 1 (9m 3s): Well, when you look, when you look down below and I shit, you not, there is barbed wire in the garden below. I’m sure that was courtesy of the Thai government. And what was really funny about the barbed wire was I was looking at the path of it and you could literally have walked through it and around

Speaker 2 (9m 23s): It. Well, why didn’t you?

Speaker 1 (9m 25s): Well, it’s a, it was a drop to the garden and oh, no, no, no, no. You don’t want to fuck with that here. And then you ended up in real jail, which I’ve heard about Thai jails. I don’t want to experience

Speaker 2 (9m 39s): One. Yeah. I’m trying to think. What was it, a movie that I saw, but it wasn’t a Thai prison. It was, I think it was a Turkish prison. Midnight express. Ah,

Speaker 1 (9m 51s): No, no. I don’t think, I, I don’t think I want to find out to be honest with you. I, I think I’m just going to say yes, sir. No, sir. And yeah, that’s probably the way. So anyway, I think after October they’re going to relax it. Cause they w they want to have some kind of a high season there, but the only thing that’s high right now are the COVID cases and deaths. Unfortunately, yesterday they had three times as many deaths as the first year.

So needless,

Speaker 2 (10m 24s): Well, yeah, but,

Speaker 1 (10m 25s): But, but here’s the difference. Okay. In America, everyone can get vaccinated and they don’t in Thailand. They don’t have enough vaccines.

Speaker 2 (10m 34s): Right, right. That’s too bad.

Speaker 1 (10m 36s): It really is. And everyone wants to get vaccinated. So we won’t, we won’t, we won’t get, we won’t get into that anyway. So I know the one out of wards is matured from its beginnings, obviously a lot. How long have you been doing that

Speaker 2 (10m 51s): Now? First year was 2011 and yeah. So how’s it changed? How’s it changed? Well, it’s grown considerably the categories. We’ve done a lot more categories over the years. I think the first year we did, like, I dunno, 20 categories this year, there’s nearly 40, but we don’t do trophies for all the categories. The format of how I do the show is a lot more, I dunno, it’s a lot more involving, we’ve got really a formula on how we do it.

That makes it work. And, you know, people just go and they know that they’re going to have a good time. They’re going to have dinner. They’re going to have drinks. And it’s, you know, it’s a thing. So it’s like, even if you’re not really in the show or nominated for anything, it’s a really a great opportunity to go and hang out with, you know, a lot of high profile companies, as well as, you know, a lot of decision makers and just, you know, to see others and be seen. It’s a great night. It sounds, it

Speaker 1 (11m 47s): Sounds really good. Plus we get to hear Jay tell jokes.

Speaker 2 (11m 50s): Yes. I’m actually going to be doing some standup on the stage this year because, you know, fuck it. I want to, well, good. Hey,

Speaker 1 (11m 57s): It’s your show. You could do what you want. Right.

Speaker 2 (12m 3s): Well, I mean, you know, people at paying be there, so I want to make sure that they, you know, get it, I’ll try some stuff. I mean, I usually do a few jokes here and there anyway. Yeah. And I mean, if things start to work, then I’ll go on with it. If not, then I’ll just, you know, shift gears and do something else which is, you know, stuffing up something I’m used to doing on stage, you know, getting a good read of the audience and what’s working and what isn’t and then shifting as necessary.

Speaker 1 (12m 27s): How does your, your background as a, as an actor help with that? Well,

Speaker 2 (12m 33s): You know what I mean? I obviously have absolutely no problem performing and being in front of people, you know, I’d say one thing that it definitely did because I don’t really incorporate a lot of my acting and my personal, I mean, it’s, it’s my personality more than anything. The fact that I got rejected so many freaking times as an actor between the ages of like, I don’t know, late teens up until I was, you know, probably about 30 almost. And then I just got into this industry and now I still do auditions here and there, but, you know, just being rejected so many times and just seeing so much of a, you know, because I knew a lot of friends that either did stand up or did ensemble comedy, or, you know, have made it and gone on to do TV shows and movies and stuff.

So just living and experiencing it’s really kind of taught me a lot on how to, how to play an audience and how to read it. And you know, it doesn’t hurt that I’m pretty well known. So, you know, I’ve got that going for me. Well, sure,

Speaker 1 (13m 31s): Sure. Especially in this industry, are you doing any acting these days?

Speaker 2 (13m 37s): Nah, I haven’t really done anything. My agent sends me audition notices every now and then. And I mean, a lot of it has to just, you have to record it. And I don’t really like doing that. I’m much better off if I actually get in front of a person physically, that gives me such an advantage over a lot of my, of a lot of my competitors, which, you know, definitely hurts when you’re unable to do that. So, you know, a lot of stuff they send me, it’s like, you know, they need someone ages 30 to 60 open ethnicity.

I mean, it’s really cattle call type stuff. And unless it’s like something, because like, you know, I’ve kind of, I wouldn’t say let myself go, but I mean, like my hair’s longer and we’ll talk about that. I just, unless it’s something where it’s like specifically needed some due to, you know, is like 45 years old and you know, is ragged and it’s something, I don’t know if it’s something that really fits my description, then I’ll pay attention to it, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14m 34s): Since you mentioned that, for those of, although those of us who follow you on Facebook, what the hell is going on with your hair?

Speaker 2 (14m 47s): Basically what happened was in early 20, 20 after I got back from, you know, there was supposed to be the Lowel expo, Columbia, you know, AIG was going to do another show in Vegas, like the first week of April. Right. And so when I got back from Columbia mid to late February, 2020, you know, it was like, okay, that’s going to be my next show since Phoenix form, wasn’t going to happen. And it usually would like a few weeks later, you know, and then there was the European summit in Lisbon, but getting from Austin to Lisbon is like a major pain in the ass, in the dead of winter.

So it’s like, I’m not going to do that. So I was just planning on going and getting my hair cut and getting ready to go to Vegas in a month and a half and then COVID hit. And then, you know, it’s like, we were pretty much led to leave. You know, don’t leave your house, don’t do this, don’t do that. I mean, I took it pretty seriously right from the start. So I ended up not getting my hair cut. And then, I mean, you know, it’s like a few months passed by and then a few more months. And I mean, I literally the whole summer of 2020 into the fall, I didn’t really, I didn’t leave.

I didn’t do shit for like almost nine months probably. Yeah. And during that time, my hair grew and I was very customed to just being antisocial and you know, I was bummed out so much of the time. And then, you know, Biden got elected. Thank God. I was like, yeah, it’s like, things started turning around a little bit. But at that point it was like, you know what? I’m in my fifties, I still have most of my hair. Fucking let’s just keep going. So here we are like nine months later than that. And I mean, other than getting things evened out a few months ago, I haven’t had like a legit haircut now in a year and a half.

Was it down to your knees now? No,

Speaker 3 (16m 26s): But it is. Let’s see.

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): I mean, it’s not, it’s below my collar for sure. And in the front, you know, if I lean forward a little bit, I can touch my, I could touch my nipples with the tips of my hair. Ooh. Very good. Fair.

Speaker 1 (16m 43s): So now let’s talk back to business. Let’s talk about the, why not camel wards in the Hollywood last year. I believe it was a virtual show actually.

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): No, we skipped it last year completely.

Speaker 1 (16m 57s): Okay. Okay. Yeah, that was the year. It was year bef a year. It was a year before year before it was a live show.

Speaker 2 (17m 5s): Yeah. What we did was we launched why not cam awards in 2018 just by itself. Right. We wanted to do it earlier in the year. We were considering a different city and the way circumstances, the way they were and we needed to get it done during the calendar year 2018, we ended up doing the why not cam wards by itself, on her own in Hollywood, in October, we wanted it earlier in the year. So we pushed a few months earlier for 2019 and ended up having an August in LA. But we also, you know, decided let’s also add a trade show to it because it, a lot of people just, they can’t have the luxury of just taking a day and going to LA and doing this.

I mean, unless they have other business there, it’s difficult. So we added a two and a half, three day trade show called, why not cam unity did that in August two, you know, great for a first-year trade show, then, you know, we’re going to push it forward a few months earlier for 2020. And then of course all this shit happened. And instead we launched the wine at summit, which is an online trade show for everybody in the industry doing that. We did that two July’s in a row, but with the wider cam awards, you just can’t duplicate because I mean, it’s the gold standard.

It’s the Oscars night for cam and clips, performers. You can’t duplicate the red carpet. You can’t duplicate the dinner, the entertainment, the drinks. I mean, it’s a whole experience. And we just decided, you know what, it’s just, it’s not fair to everyone. If we were to do this virtually this year. So we took a year off and focused on why not summit and other and including specialty windup mail, because that grew big in 2020. So now we wanted to do what live. We’re going to do it in LA.

We’re going to be pretty strict on how we handle, you know, who can attend. And it’s just the way it is. I mean, that’s, we got to do what we got to push forward.

Speaker 1 (18m 50s): How are you going to be strict on who can attend? Are, are they going to have to be vaccinated tested and all that?

Speaker 2 (18m 58s): Yeah, they’re going to need to be vaccinated and they needed going to need to show us proof. We’ve got this documented on our page for badges. We’ve got this documented in a lot of different places. Obviously we’re going to be driving this point home numerous times over the next several weeks, because the last thing we want to do is have someone show up and then not be able to get in. And I mean, as info it’s well-documented that LA county is starting to impose these kinds of regulations on businesses saying that, you know, okay, it’s required that you need to be vaccinated, you know, and this is going on in LA county.

I believe it’s going on in places in New York, like restaurants and gyms, you need a vaccination and proof. And then LA county is leading in that direction. So, you know, we’re getting in front of it and saying, Hey, okay. You know, we see the writing on the wall. And the last thing we want to do is put any of the people that want to be at our show and legitimately, you know, care about themselves and others and jeopardize them. So that’s how it’s going to have to be great.

Speaker 1 (19m 55s): Great. Well, you know what, you’re responsible. And I think in this day and age, it’s important to be a responsible that’s unless you live in Florida. Okay. So you also, you mentioned why not cam unity in Hollywood? Yeah. Now talk about that show and how are preparations

Speaker 2 (20m 17s): Going? It’s good. I mean, we’ve, you know, we were already well underway for the winery, camel awards, as far as like suggestions for the nominations, the nominations, and in the process, you know, we’ve, we’ve locked down the w Hollywood, we’ve got a portion of rooms that we have at a discount rate. We’re taking over a portion of the hotel. I’m still looking for sponsors, but we do have several onboard already. You know, in fact, I would actually like to give a quick shout out to my sponsors, at least for boats events and for the wine camel wards, at least we’ve got chatter bait.

I want clips live Jasmine and branded scan as our four main platinum sponsors. They’ve all been on board. They’re very extremely supportive. Obviously without them, we wouldn’t be able to do this show, right? So it’s critical that we have their support and with, with why not camp munity, we’ve got chatter bait on as our presenting sponsor, which they also did a couple of years ago. And then as far as our platinum sponsors, we’ve got, I want clips, stripped chat and nasty, which is a crypto.

So the way we’re doing this for one community is we’re having like kind of a opening night on October 11th. And then we’ve got a full day of seminars and networking and opportunities primarily for performers, whether they’re just getting started or whether they’ve been around several years for cams and clips. Obviously we’re gonna have porn stars there too. And any kind of entity that does business with cam networks and clips platforms. We highly encourage them to go sure, executives, Philly it’s anyone that would have any cause to do business with the cams and clips industries, and want to reach out to numerous models.

So all day the 12th and all day, the 13th of October, our full day trade show days, we’ll probably do something small in the morning and the 14th, but then obviously everybody needs time to get ready for the Campbell where it’s going on that evening with the red carpet starting around five or five 30.

Speaker 1 (22m 22s): Awesome. Awesome. Now, talk, talk about the format of that show. You guys really do that

Speaker 2 (22m 29s): A big the wine boards. Yes. Yes. So, you know, we’re going to be live streaming at worldwide. I’m in the process of working with a crew, which we did in 2019 and 2018. You know, we like to try to get things moving so that no one’s really waiting long in the wings to get on the red carpet. We’ve got probably I’m going to get about a dozen different models who are going to be red carpet interviewers. We’ll have a camera and a boom guy on the front of the carpet, as well as the back of the carpet.

And I’m going to have an inside host walking around and talking, and it’s going to be run like a TV show, just back and forth to one to the next, to the next, with whoever’s ready and queued up. So this goes on from about five or 5:30 PM till about seven, 7:30 PM. This is, you know, really nicely coordinated. It’s a lot of fun. It’s going on vine street, which just north of Hollywood Boulevard, very famous area in Hollywood, right next to Capitol records. Then what we’re doing at, I think starting at around seven, seven o’clock even dinner service is going to be starting inside.

So the earliest people from the red carpet will be able to start enjoying that. There’ll be an open bar. There will also be general admission seating upstairs in the balcony. These are very low priced. And that means that anybody who doesn’t get in for a VIP seat or is nominated, but just in the, in the industry and wants to watch the show, we’ve got tickets very low price. And in some cases you can bring a friend for free. All this is explained on awards dot, why not And you know, I’m not sure about capacity as far as how many models and how many executives could be in the venue at a time, but we’re, we’re looking to be able to fit a few hundred.

So we’ve got some entertainers I’m nailing down, you know, some standup comics that are going to be doing this, you know, last year or not last year, the year before we had Brad, oh God, what’s his last name? Dammit. We had Kate Quigley and Brad and I cannot remember his last name. This happens when you get older, you forget people’s names. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. Who are you? And then we do the orange show, which clocks in at about a hundred minutes, which is long enough to keep everyone’s attention.

But you know, not long enough for people to want more. And then the after party starts right after right there in the venue upstairs.

Speaker 1 (24m 55s): That sounds amazing. I mean, that really, that really see, you guys have put a lot of work into this.

Speaker 2 (24m 60s): Yep. It’s a, it’s a great time and yeah, it’s just, it’s well-orchestrated, we’ve got it down. We were really building momentum and then 2020 happened, unfortunately,

Speaker 1 (25m 10s): So many people were building momentum on so many things in 2020 happened and then 2021 happened, but we won’t go there. Okay. So speaking of 20, 21, you live in Texas and I just mentioned Florida. How has the pandemic been in your neck of the woods?

Speaker 2 (25m 32s): You know, I have a few friends in the industry here. I have a few friends who are a few more friends. We’re not in the industry here. We’re all being as safe as we possibly can. Over the last few weeks with a spike of Delta, even though I’m am vaccinated, I’ve been neglecting to go to the gym just because I’m a little freaked out on things. And you know, I’ve been reading that there’s breakthrough cases and I really don’t want that. My kid goes to high school. His school starts in a few days. I’m really worried about him. He isn’t worried in the least, but he’s a smart kid and he’s, you know, going to be very careful.

You know what they’re saying? I mean, hospitals are overflowing. It’s been ridiculous, but I mean, I’m out in suburbia. I don’t really see any of this stuff. I am a little bit of a hermit when I’m here and I’ve really learned how to be a hermit over the last year and a half. So yeah, I just don’t see a lot of this going on, but I mean, you know, I read the news, I looked at statistics and I see what’s going on. And yeah, I mean, it’s pretty much a shit show of epic proportions, depending on, you know, how much of it you want to believe

Speaker 1 (26m 35s): And where you are. And it’s a real shit show right now in Thailand. Man. Let me tell you, so talk a little bit about why not male. I I’ve certainly used it myself. How can that benefit people in the end?

Speaker 2 (26m 54s): So why not? Mail is an awesome platform for anyone to use where they have their own generated email list. If you have a great email list and you know, something that you want to sell to these people and it’s adult in nature and not adult, I mean, we accept a lot of adult non adult accounts, but if you have something that’s adult in nature, you know, chances are much more than likely the platform that you’re using has it somewhere in their terms of services that you are not allowed to do anything explicit. Sometimes it’s a little bit more vague than that, but at the end of the day, I can’t tell you how many people have lost their email accounts or they’ve lost their email marketing accounts using a mail service that lumps them in with trafficking, you know, pharmaceuticals and illegal activities and pyramid schemes and all that shit.

It’s just like, you know what, to save a few bucks. Why on earth would you even want to work with a company that shows that holds you in such low regard? Right? We’ve, we’ve had wine at mail now for like 11, 12 years. And you know, at the end of the day, we help you as much as you want as little as you want. And it’s so much more than just an email software platform. I mean, there’s, you know, we’ve got great help. Richard has been, you know, managing accounts for us for the duration and you know, we’re in the industry. The why not name has been around for 25, almost 26 years. Now we go to shows, we want to see you succeed.

We’re here to help. And, you know, I mean, there’s a few things and a few verticals that we won’t work with that, you know, are either because they’re illegal federally in the United States. So, but at the end of the day, there’s a lot of networks. There’s a lot of solo site owners, individual proprietors companies, cam networks, traffic networks that are sending out insane amounts of emails through our platform and getting inbox and making much more than their money back.

So that’s what we’re here to do. We’re help. We’re here to help you email market and, you know, build your brand and make money.

Speaker 1 (28m 51s): Yeah. You mentioned Richard. He certainly goes beyond the call of duty if you need help, especially when you’re a tech dummy like me. So like me, you have quite a podcasting and radio background. Of course your performance background goes even further, but you, and you mentioned this earlier, your current project is seat of your pants. You tell me what that’s all about, get into some

Speaker 2 (29m 17s): Detail about it. Well, you know, Connor comes up with a lot of great ideas and you know, when he does, it’s a great idea. I mean, I constantly shoot down a lot of his ideas as well, but I mean, he’s always got something cooking up and just, you know, a while ago he’s like, you know what, we should do podcasts. And I’m like, God, are people really doing those still? You know, I mean, you know, especially like a clubhouse and everybody with their short attention spans and being able to grab a minute here and there, you know, but I’ve been wanting to do a podcast for awhile. I did the why not, Humpday launch back from 2001 to 2006, you know, before it was even called podcasts.

It was like an online radio show. Right. So I was doing that every Wednesday for five years. And then I took a many year hiatus and then I did porn and coffee with Thomas <inaudible>. And we did that from like, I dunno, it was like end of 2015. I think we did that all of 2016 and 2017, you know, it’s tough to keep up. And we, we knocked out like a good 50 episodes at least. And you know, over the last year or so, I would want him to put something together. I saw Connor put together, sell porn or die trying, which focuses on affiliate marketing and speaks to some serious business execs and movers and Jakers.

And I’m like, well, you know what? I liked that I liked that he’s doing that. I should do something. Let me just, you know, do something that’s completely different than everything that he’s doing. So like, you know what I’m known by, you know, lots of performers in the industry and I’m good friends with several of them who would be a great co-host with me on the show, mistress, Kai, who I love dearly. I figured, you know what? I think she’d be down to do something like this. W we’re very different people in so many ways, but in other ways we’re very similar.

So I’m just like, you know what, let me just put this together. And like, with a lot of things, I’m just kind of flying by the seat of my pants. And the whole point of this was, you know, what, we just want to be, have people be a fly on the wall, let’s interview performers who are, you know, have a good following and are well-known and tend to be either friends with Kai or myself and just do a half an hour phone conversation, no plans, nothing in place. It’s like, okay. You know, people are listening in on a phone call and this could go anywhere.

And that’s, you know, it’s still evolving. We’ve only done like six episodes.

Speaker 1 (31m 33s): Cool, cool. Now, as you mentioned, we’ve all pretty much stayed home the last year and a half. What are your travel plans for the balance of this year and next year? That’s

Speaker 2 (31m 46s): A good question. As far as, as far as this year is concerned. I mean, honestly, dude, I usually go to like 10 plus shows a year. I mean, I like to go to a few of the exotica because I like to do the AVN internets. I mean, I was doing Phoenix formatted existed. I did do at least the European summit in Prague. I haven’t been Amsterdam for a few years, but I like doing that. Of course, we’ve got our own events, you know, with the wine at GAM unity and the wine at camel wards. So the way I’m looking at it now what’s feasible.

I mean, Jude, I was supposed to do like four events in September, but I think it’s down to one now. So I’m thinking in September balmy and I know I am, unless something really shitty happens. I plan on go into Prague for like six days. I’m going to go there. I’m going to do the European summit. And I’m just, you know, tacking on like an extra day or two in front of it. So I can get acclimated because I haven’t put my body through the, of traveling internationally and doing a show and the time zone change and everything, you know, in two years,

Speaker 1 (32m 47s): Tell me about time zone changes. I just came back from the state. So,

Speaker 2 (32m 50s): Yeah. Right. So yeah, I mean, it’s like the last time I did, this was September, 2019 and I’m used to going overseas two or three times a year, every year. So, you know, not getting any younger and it’s just like, so I’m doing that in September, October, I’m doing why not cam awards and why not community? And I’ll be in LA for like a full week in the middle of October, then a week or so after that, I’m going to go to the exotica expo in New Jersey. And I’m going to do that for like four days or so.

We’ve got a double booth there. We’re going to have lots of models, you know, Jay and Dan, the owners of exotica, from what I understand their show in Chicago a month ago, kicked ass great turnout. And that we’re very safe and very smart and how they were dealing with attendees. Cause it’s a fan show. So, you know, that’s, it’s tricky because you know, you’re dealing with hundreds, you know, you’re dealing with thousands of people there, you know, you don’t know what’s going on. So they led the way they did a great thing. And so I’m doing that in New Jersey in late October, and then I’m going to go to their other show in December in DC.

It’s like the first few days of December, it’s a brand new city. I’ve never been to DC before. So I’m gone.

Speaker 1 (34m 3s): Yeah. Sounds good. Sounds good. Crazy DC in December sounds cold. You’re you mentioned, you mentioned exotica. What, what’s the full, what’s the extent of your involvement with that

Speaker 2 (34m 21s): We’re sponsors and you know, I mean, they’re doing Miami in September, but you know, it’s too close to Prague for me and I know I’m gonna need some days off and with the way DeSantis is running that state and all this shit, I just, you know, I just, I, I, I can’t. So

Speaker 1 (34m 38s): You don’t want to patronize Florida. I don’t blame you, man.

Speaker 2 (34m 41s): Yeah. I mean, considering the fact that we’ve got huge, huge events going on in LA three weeks later, I just don’t want to tempt fate. I don’t want to fuck around. So, you know, so yeah. We’re sponsors of exotica and you know, I have a double blue spot, so it’s like a 20 by 10. And I usually get about a dozen models to sign at my booth. And the point of me going there is, you know, it’s just, it’s a big branding thing. I want all the models and all the attendees of the show to see why not, because we do have some consumer news and a lot of the models, obviously when they’re trying to get nominated and voted for, for one, our cam awards, fan voting is huge for that.

I want these people to be tuning into our live stream. So I’ll be, you know, even though we’ll just finish with the wine, our cameras and why not community a week earlier, you know, I want people to get used to knowing our name and seeing our brand and you know, preparing for next year. I didn’t

Speaker 1 (35m 33s): Know. I didn’t know you were doing consumer stuff.

Speaker 2 (35m 36s): We’re doing a little bit of consumer. I mean, obviously we want fans to take note of us because you know, we’ve got so many models that are, that are working with us in one way, shape or form. The other thing obviously is, you know, I like to go booth to booth and meet all the owners of all the different products and businesses there. I mean, there’s novelties, there’s strip clubs, there’s lifestyle, there’s other cam networks. And usually I meet several dozen models for the first time going there and see several dozen friends. You know, it’s just, it’s a great opportunity for me to nurture relationships and build new ones.

And I always do. I was

Speaker 1 (36m 10s): Just telling somebody a couple days ago that I should probably go to an exotica, even though it’s not really in line with what we do, there could be some benefits,

Speaker 2 (36m 23s): You know, it’s, it’s a fun time. And, you know, I mean, I guess it just depends on what your goals are and everything. I mean, even if you’re just there to just like find new products and just, you know, see some interesting things. Cause I mean, they got a stage show going on. They’ve got like a BDSM dungeon going on. It’s interesting. Yeah. I I’m there, you know, specifically to just get my brand noticed and bring more models into the why not fold, so to speak.

Speaker 1 (36m 50s): Right. And to see the BDSM show. Okay. So you live in Austin, there’s a lot going on there. Are you involved in local industry? Yeah, actually

Speaker 2 (37m 4s): I am. It’s been a couple of years and I’m not getting involved this year, unfortunately, but there’s the Texas for less Fest, you know, which has been going on for many years. Lynn Raritan who owns the forbidden fruit, novelty and lingerie store in north Austin. She’s I believe the first female owned adult business in Austin since like the eighties wonderful person she’s been working in the Texas burlesque Fest for years. And usually I have some sort of involvement with it, but not this year, unfortunately.

And then also the Texas foot parties. There’s a fetish foot party that goes on run by this fantastic lady named Phoenix. Stacey. I met her just recently and met her in soul scream. Who’s her videographer and significant other. And they produce these events, I guess they switch back and forth between Austin and Dallas and that’s going on, you know, I think this episode will have aired already by the time that happens, but yeah, you know, I’m, I’m helping them promote it.

I’m going to be there. You know, I just want to get much more involved, especially like in the fetish and BDSM communities, because they’re so huge and there’s so much crossover with what we do that this is just, it’s a fun thing and it’s local and I always want to be a participant and stuff like that. Sure.

Speaker 1 (38m 29s): Now, Jay, you are obviously a pretty active guy. You talked about how much do you normally travel and you do a lot locally. How have you been able to keep saying the last 18 months?

Speaker 2 (38m 44s): Well, I gotta tell ya, you know, the first few months were extremely difficult. Like literally, you know, when we were all hit with the news in March of 2020 that, you know, this is going to go on for awhile, there’s going to be deaths. I mean, just when we were trying to digest the news and we were all really more stunned than anything and you know, the more I dug in, the more people I talked to and, you know, just, I could see really early on things were being politicized already with it, but my attitude was, you know what, I’d rather just be safe than sorry, because people are fricking dying already.

And pretty much April and may of 2020. I just, I was just in a dark place, man. It was difficult. And you know, then we figured it out and we were able to do things and, you know, just diving into my work and just being busy all the time. I mean, for a period of months, I would go out every day and I would walk, jog two to four miles and it was just like, I would do whatever I possibly could to take my mind off things. So, you know, I, I would say I still, from time to time go to some pretty dark places, I, I don’t make it really public, you know?

I mean, I’ll be a little bummed, I’ll go on Twitter and I’ll, you know, tweet some, you know, sympathy, tweets and shit, you know, but at the end of the day, I just, I dunno, I kind of keep a lot of this shit to myself and figure out ways on how to deal with it and, you know, work and having some good success over the last year and a half or so, and not losing my ass was really what kept me sane more than anything else. But that’s awesome all up though. It really hasn’t been the happiest of times for me though, even though we’ve had a lot of good things, right,

Speaker 1 (40m 32s): Right. It hasn’t been the happiest of times for the entire world. Let’s face it. So I’ve always says, you know, I’ve always considered you the best sales person in our industry. Well, you’re welcome again. Now share some tips of what to do and what not to do when trying to sell someone.

Speaker 2 (40m 54s): Well, one thing that people should never do is go in hot and heavy. I mean, it’s, you just met someone for the first time. Talk to them, get to know them, let them know who you are, what you do, find out what they are and what they do. I mean, I get a number of affiliates who don’t know a fucking thing about me and they’ll send me these emails or they’ll, they’ll send me something through Instagram or worse. They’ll send it through me for like a WhatsApp group. And it’s just like, clearly they’ve done zero research. Sometimes language is a barrier and I get it.

But I just see so many reps that just really, they don’t have a clue what the hell they’re doing. I wonder how they’re even able to keep jobs at their business. If this is what they’re doing to people, I don’t know. So, you know, know who you’re going after. Don’t only hit someone up every time when you were looking for something, you know, just things to do. It’s like, it’s just, it’s such a cumulative thing. It’s a long game. There’s people that I’ve known in the industry for the 21 years that I’ve been in here.

Right? Some of them I’ve never even really tried to sell to, but you know, I maintain relations with, and you know, I know that at some point, and actually recently I won’t mention the name of the company I wasn’t getting where I wanted to get. And so I’m like, you know what? I know the owner, I’ve known this person a long time, screw it. I’m just going to call them. And that’s what I did. And I made a sale. I made a good sale. Right. So, you know, it just, you gotta know when to push, when to hold back, know something about who you’re going after.

And you know, it also helps to know what some of their, their, their trigger points are. You know what I mean? Is this someone who likes to save money? Is this someone who likes to go big? Is this someone who, you know, needs recognition? It just, every single case is different. And one thing that people should always do as well, and this is something I learned as a telemarketer back in the eighties for Christ’s sake, if you get a wrong number, don’t treat it like, oh, okay, goodbye. Every opportunity is a sale. I’ve had people misfire on social media or texting me, thinking that we’re talking to another person and I’ve actually turned it into an opportunity.

So view everything. Everything is an opportunity in one way, shape or form. Right? So that’s all I got to say about that. Well, and

Speaker 1 (43m 13s): I get, when I get spammed, I, I point them towards our affiliate program, ASB cash.

Speaker 2 (43m 20s): That’s what you gotta do. I mean, I’ll get these people sending me things. And it’s like, if I want to spend the time and educate them a little bit, sometimes I’ll do that. Right. But otherwise, you know, I’ll just send them a link to our media kit and go, look, if you’re interested in getting your name out there, spending and wasting time doing what you’re doing right now is not going to help. Right. What I would suggest is buy an ad. Let me put you up here. If you’ve got a press release, I can put it out, right. You’re not going to get rich and you’re not going to do this overnight, but you know, it’s going to help you. And I’m here for you. And 99% of the time they choose to ignore it.

And then I never hear from them

Speaker 1 (43m 51s): Again, know there’s that 1%. Hey, how, how long did you, and I know each other before we became a client,

Speaker 2 (43m 59s): I think I probably met you in like 2004. Sounds about right. It’s been about 17 years. I think I got you. You bought a house or you did something with the wipey, Mexico. And I was selling a little Casita’s and I think I sold you a room as part of a bigger house or maybe your own hotel room. I don’t remember what, but that’s where I met you. It’s been that long. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44m 22s): And oh God, I missed those shows. Oh, I miss those. Oh, it was reckless. It was fun. It was crazy. But I mean, but you know, we knew each other that long and just in recent years we started spending money with you. And I think that’s probably the best example of all, you know, things don’t happen overnight, make relationships. I agree with you wholeheartedly as someone who, who, I also consider myself to be a sales person. Obviously, if you want a competent person and you just have to yeah.

Make relationships, ask questions, be present and just get to know people. You know, I get, I get spanned. I get spammed a ton between LinkedIn, between emails, between Skype 99.9% of the time. They have no idea who I am or what I do. And they all want to sell me traffic or want to buy my traffic or that’s the most, obviously I’m sure you get a lot of that too. What they

Speaker 2 (45m 26s): Want to sell me traffic or buy it or something. Yeah. Or get that, or I get crypto or I get dating offers or I get someone throwing a million different, like abbreviations my way. And I don’t have a freaking clue what the hell they’re talking about. Right. I know.

Speaker 1 (45m 41s): Huh? Yeah. The abbreviation stuff it’s like, and sometimes it has to do with, with the deal. And I go, I’m sorry. Maybe I’m stupid. But what does that mean? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 53s): It’s just like, don’t assume, don’t assume when you’re reaching out to someone that they’re going to understand all your lingo and then again, it wouldn’t right. You wouldn’t be going after the person in the first place. If you actually knew something about them and what they did and that they really weren’t right for you and vice versa, then you wouldn’t have to worry about throwing jargon their way because you wouldn’t be hitting them up for that. You’re

Speaker 1 (46m 12s): Absolutely right. Well, Jay, as always, thanks for being with us today on adults, I broker tuck and I look forward to getting you back on again soon.

Speaker 2 (46m 24s): Appreciate it. And I apologize to all your listeners. If I went a little long wind at and everything, but you put a coin in me and I don’t stop.

Speaker 1 (46m 31s): Never a problem. My broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy and then establishing what your budget is next. It’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult site broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can always act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site.

Other places to look are boards like and But to be completely honest, unless what you’re looking for is really low end. You’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course you could contact site, odors yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living on a daily basis. It’s a major hassle. And it can be really hard to even find out who owns the site. Almost all sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar.

So when you send them an email, you’ll probably be sending it to an anonymous address. And in most cases, the emails aren’t returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally we know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out, we’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Ava Durga of Circle of Q.

Speaker 0 (48m 0s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Jay Kopita.Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Mark Prince and Robert Warren of

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And of course there’s ASB Cash, the first affiliate program for an adult website brokerage where you can earn as much as 20% of our broker commission referring sellers and buyers to us at Adult Site Broker. Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up.

Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker adults’ light broker is proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The site went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages.

Google has placed the websites in good search positions are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and buy traffic now only $595,000.

Now time for this week’s interview my guests today on adult site broker talk, and yes, I said, guests are Mark Prince and Robert the legacy Warren of too guys. Thanks for being with us today on adult site. Broker talk,

Speaker 2 (3m 3s): Thank you very much for inviting us. Thank you, Bruce. It’s an honor to be here. It’s a

Speaker 1 (3m 7s): Pleasure. Have both of you. These guys are two long time friends, so this is going to be fun. Now too is a company that produces live video chat software and has been doing that for over 20 years. They operated live cam network for a long time and their latest project is mirror cam, which mark will tell us about and a little bit here. Mark Prince is a 24 year veteran of the adult industry. Mark got his start in the industry in late 1997, by 1999. He hired his first programmer and his company moved from a small home office to the 5,000 square foot loft and trendy old Montreal, where the company now employs a growing group of coders and dozens of sexy local cam models.

Now, of course, currently, as we record this, we’ve gone back to in-home camming due to COVID-19 a while remaining behind the scenes. Mark has spoken at many trade shows, including Quebec expo and ex biz LA. He’s also provided endless advice to new people entering the business. Robert Warren is a 28 year veteran of the adult industry and serves as a mentor to many industry professionals. Robert AKA, the legacy offers advice, wisdom, and guidance to company owners down to new webmasters and sales reps.

In addition, Robert has also spoken at a variety of seminars throughout the years, as, as an industry expert written, many columns appeared on radio programs and podcasts, including this one, along with having numerous articles written about him, many owners and successful individuals today, ow, many of their achievements to Robert recently, he joined his friend Now, mark, we’ll start with you since you own the joint. Last time we talked about mirror cam, why don’t you refresh our memory about what it is?

And I guess now it’s a happening thing

Speaker 3 (4m 56s): It’s getting there. It’s it’s there it’s a brand new software. It replaces our old software life chem network from my years ago. It’s the, the new version is pretty different from the old version. It incorporates lots of new features that we’ve been, that the models have been requesting for a long time. And that users have been requesting for a long time. It’s a pretty different, okay, how so? Well, so for example, the on traditional video chat websites, there’s kind of a distinct separation between models and customers.

People can go to customers can go to the website and chat with the models. And that’s basically about it with mirror cam customers can interact with the models in, in different ways. Users can create their own profiles and create their own personalities on the site. Even though they’re not a model, they can like follow post messages, comment on images and galleries and things like that. A little similar to Facebook, the data that’s collected by all of the interaction helps give models more information and helps them target customers.

When it comes to let’s say fantasy fulfillment or niches, right? A lot of different things like that. It’s, it’s being set up to be a like right now it’s, it’s it’s up and running and we have new features coming out, but it’s being, I would say set up to be something even greater than it is right now. That’s

Speaker 1 (6m 34s): Fantastic. You, you are, you are such the developer slash mad scientist. When I hear you talk about that and, and, and it sounds, it is a compliment and, and, and it sounds like you’ve really brought your product into the social media age.

Speaker 3 (6m 50s): Yeah. And unfortunately we were late to the game doing that, right? So the, we should have, one of the mistakes we made is we should’ve embraced social media a lot earlier than we did. Well,

Speaker 1 (7m 3s): Hey, it happens to all of us now, mark Robert is one of the most respected names in our business. How did you manage to get them over to your team?

Speaker 3 (7m 13s): Well, it was a lot of pleading and begging and a lot of favors, which we won’t get into that right now. Oh, I

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): Want to hear, I want to hear, want to hear about that? Are your knees sore or anything?

Speaker 3 (7m 27s): Yeah, well, not the, not anymore, but I use that Christian now, you know? No, it was no, we’ve been friends for a super long time and we got to talking one day just about business in general and things like that and realized that, that I could really use him because he’s like, as his nickname, the legacy is really well earned. Right. He hasn’t been around for a long time.

He knows everyone and everyone and everyone really smart. He’s helped keep my business on track, you know, both in his friendly advice and as in professional advice as well. So yeah, it’s, it seemed like it was, I was going to say match made in heaven. That’s not quite what I mean, it was more like, it was, it was more like better timing and the lucky for me that’s for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.


Speaker 1 (8m 27s): Now Robert, you’ve known mark for a long time and after all these years you’re working with too, which has been a surprise to some. Why did you go to work with mark?

Speaker 2 (8m 39s): Well, over the years and I’ve had a lot of people say to me, you know, like, why don’t you start up your own company? And even you’ve said that to me, and I know that Marcus said that as well, and I’ve always been hesitant on doing it. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been thinking that the, you know, the past couple of years that I’ve got, you know, you know, that’s, I mean, I’m kind of limited in my future, you know, like I’m not going to be here forever. And I want the remaining years that I’ve got in this industry to be pleasant, to be one of giving and one of helping and doing the right thing.

And, you know, I just want to go on a high note and be beneficial. I think with mark, it was more of just, you know, that just as adding to my happiness, I mean, working with, with a old friend, a dear friend of mine that I’ve known, you know, for a long time, I mean, hell, we used to, you know, sit there out in front of the Playboy mansion, smoking weed on the stairs and do a bunch of things.

You know, it’s just, we get our personalities are so well suited even though we’re, we’re different there it’s, it’s still a good combination. We, we work well together. And so the, the things that I bring to the table help, I think help bolster what he’s created and I think as well, but he’s created as well, helps bolster and help me out because the people that I talk to, they’re always looking for somebody who’s, who’s trustworthy and get stuff done.

And, you know, I am nowhere near on the caliber of, of mark when it comes to doing certain things and I know mark can handle it. And he basically makes the impossible possible when it comes to programming. And that, so it just seems as though we’re, you know, together, we make a very strong force in, in the, in the industry that very few can even come close to a match. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10m 51s): I D I, you know, I just noticed the other day on X biz, that his logo was in your signature. And I reached out to both you guys and congratulated dude, cause I’m like, well, geez, that’s a natural. I mean, these guys have built on each other forever. So Robert you’re coming up on three decades in the industry. God damn, that’s a long time now. You’ve obviously he started when he was 12. Of course. Now obviously you’ve seen many changes happen.

What’s what’s remained similar. And what are the most notable differences from your perspective?

Speaker 2 (11m 27s): What has remained similar is the type of webmaster that enters into the industry. They’re there they’re wide eyed, bushy tailed. I’m thinking that if, you know, by reading a few things in hearing a few people that they’re going to make millions and they don’t have to spend a hell of a lot of money. And unfortunately there are people out there that will take advantage of said webmasters or new people out there.

Yes, that’s always there, there will always be those people that love to create conflict within, within the family of the adults. And, you know, you get on the webmaster boards and all that. And you’re just like, you know what, just stop talking. Adults are having a conversation here. And they’re just bringing in, in, you know, is, is just useless stuff.

There’s a lot of that going on. And that’s another reason why I think as well, I’ve been so successful because I managed to somehow sort out the people that I feel are going to be successful versus the ones that I think, you know, just by their attitude and where they’re going, that are just, sorry, you’re not going to last long. You know? And we, we had that conversation before when I find somebody who can be successful and I get in and all that, that I try to help them out to do that.

Whether it’s a webmaster, whether it’s somebody who’s a sales rep, whether it’s a company, whatever, then I do that. It was, if it is a successful company, I don’t want to see them go under, I don’t want to see them fall because we need, you know, companies that have been lasting a long time in this industry as a stable factor for everybody else to see, because if there’s high turnover, then that kind of scares the crap out of everybody.

And it opens the door to people that just are misinformed and they just throw everybody off. What’s been different. Well, sort of the other thing that’s stayed the same is I hate using the word fake news, but just, you know, every single year or every other year, I hear a panic story as to how the whole industry is going to fall apart. And it’s you name it?

It’s, you know, we’re all gonna, we’re all gonna die. We’re all going to be out of business. Can you really make money in this industry? The case in point, it started with the tubes starting to, to grow by the way. Yeah. <inaudible> tubes are amazing. We’re not, but everybody started to come around. Everybody was like, that’s it? You know, the rest of us are dead. These guys are taking over the industry. And at that time I kept saying, be creative, use them to your advantage and you’ll find you can be successful doing it.

Sure. Well, those people that listened obviously did that, you know, they’re surviving and you know, people are going, oh, we’re all dead because the tubes are dying. And it’s like, well, let’s kind of do the same thing here. You know? Like we started off as individual websites. Let’s go back to that. Yeah. And then with COVID coming in, everybody’s going, everybody’s going up, that’s it, we’re all dead. We can’t do any more shoots. Well, you know what, there’s a benefit to the site. Let’s work with that. I mean, it just, every single year, there’s, there’s something to scare the crap out of people.

And you just got to sit down and say, just breathe, take a chill pill. We can make it, we can do it. Let’s just be smart about our decisions. Right. Do yeah, no. Yeah, exactly. And unfortunately, you know, if you read too much of the crap that’s out there, then those, it scares the crap out of people. And or if you get linked up to the wrong people talking to you, then you’re really screwed.

And there’s a lot of people wasting their money out there on stuff. I saw one guy a couple of months ago. I mean, he was being, somebody wanted to charge him $2,000 just to index a site. Or, you know, when you take the Google analytics, the coding, just to put on your webpage, he was charging them $2,000 for that. And that’s exactly what I said. I said, stop right there. I said, and I showed him right there, how to get the code from analytics and put it on his site.

And he was like, that’s it? I said, yep. That was $2,000 right there. And he was stunned.

Speaker 1 (16m 33s): Well, it’s like the, it’s like the guys that send you the notices for your domain and they want $300 for it or something, you know, when it’s, when it’s ready to renew and there’s, and there’s dumb, there’s dummies that will do that.

Speaker 2 (16m 45s): Yeah. And then there’s people that think that, you know, I can hire a programmer for $500 or an SEO person or marketing person for 500, a thousand dollars and that’ll do it. It can happen, you know? And so there’s a lot of, of negative things that, that go on. The next thing would be things that need to, or that I see as far as the, the benefits with some of the, the Vanguard around, we are here to teach and to train and to write articles and do podcasts and to help people out.

So there is hope there is hope for that’s what, that’s, where we want to come in and, and be like that. And I think with, with teaming, with mark, who is a very good source of information and hope for people, I mean, they come to him and they have certain ideas about, you know, programming and all that and how things should go. And he’s like, you know, if he was just a regular programmer, he’d be like, oh, you know, sure, go ahead.

You know, let’s do it that way. And then just let them run off and fail. But mark actually cares. And you go in and say, look, if you do it this way, you’re going to screw up and you’re going to fail. Right. This is what I recommend. And the people who listened to his advice are the ones who do succeed and at least have the shot.

Speaker 1 (18m 21s): I think, I think all three of us are, are people that care. I think that’s something that we’ve got in common. And I think we have that in common with a lot of people in this industry. So, you know, that’s a good thing. That’s a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Mark, when COVID-19 is behind us and we’re, we’re recording this in may and running it in August. So hopefully by then, it’s pretty close. What are your attendance plans for trade shows?

Speaker 3 (18m 50s): I plan to, as long as everything is safe and more or less back to normal, I planned that to hit them hard. It’s been years. Like I’ve always attended Quebec expo here in Montreal. And, but it’s been quite a while since I’ve been to some of the others, like X biz. And so, and now I kind of not just miss them, but feel like they were taken away from me. Right. So I plan to hit them hard when that things get back to normal. I plan to attend as many shows as I can afford.

Speaker 2 (19m 19s): How about you, Robert? Definitely. What, what he was saying about the Quebec expo. I want to get back to Vegas, the circle bar, you know, Florida, some of the exhibition shows not just for the fun and, and the, you know, just being together as a family, as an adult family, but finally, to sit down and talk to people I’ve already had my Pfizer shot. So I’m really hoping that everybody else gets there so that we can meet together.

Speaker 1 (19m 53s): I traveled, I traveled to the U S saying next week and I’m hoping to get Johnson and Johnson. So there’ll be one and done. So that’s, and that’s my main reason for going to the states because Thailand is just so jacked up when it comes to the vaccine. Don’t get me started now. Now Robert mark has also been around the industry for a long time. I remember Robert Hughes saying to me that you too, and you mentioned this earlier, we’re at the Playboy mansion together in front smoking weed, is that,

Speaker 3 (20m 21s): You know, you’ve made it by the way. Okay.

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): Okay. I guess, I guess I, I guess, I guess I haven’t made it is, is that, is that how the friendship started? And by the way it was

Speaker 2 (20m 32s): Pat Hefner’s bird.

Speaker 1 (20m 33s): Okay. Well was, well, that was my question. Okay. Oh really? Okay. Was Hugh there getting high with you guys or any of the bunnies? Just kind of curious?

Speaker 3 (20m 44s): No, unfortunately he was like, he was around, but no, we didn’t get to like, you know, sit down and smoke with them. Unfortunately, that would have been really nice, but Nope. Did, did,

Speaker 1 (20m 59s): Did you, did you get to pet, did you get to pet the bunnies?

Speaker 3 (21m 2s): No. They, the good question there were, I think I tried to pet the bunnies, but they kept running away from me. I don’t know.

Speaker 2 (21m 10s): Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. The picture has got you with three girls hanging on you, but they weren’t buddies. They weren’t buddies. Well, I remember you remember very well, mark, the Taiwan. I had like three or four bunnies around me and I was having my phone up and you went in for a look and you found out that I was actually sitting there showing pictures of my kids. You mentioned,

Speaker 1 (21m 40s): I think you mentioned, I think you mentioned that at the first time we talked. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (21m 44s): You did. You did. Everybody’s wondering how the hell I can get like that many bunnies around

Speaker 1 (21m 51s): Me. Hey, either either kids or dogs at that’ll usually do the trick. My, my, my dogs, my dogs usually get me a lot of attention from the girls a lot more than I get. So is that how you guys met by the way? No.

Speaker 3 (22m 7s): No. The like weeds usually like, at least for Robin, I like we had run into each other previous trade shows and shook hands maybe. And, but sometimes you might start up a conversation right away, sometimes not, but after seeing familiar faces, you know, at this show that another show, oh, Hey, do again, Hey, how’s it going? And then we started a conversation like that and that’s usually how I am at trade shows. Anyway. I tend to be kind of a shy and quiet. So that’s why I need Rob.

Rob’s a great talker. And I’m just, I, you know, I’ll spend all kinds of money at my booth and then just hide behind it half the time, you know? So, but yeah. So no, we met at a few shows previous.

Speaker 1 (22m 51s): Yeah. No more hands, no more handshakes. Only, only, only elbow books. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So what is it about mark that you’d want to associate with this company, Robert too

Speaker 2 (23m 7s): Well, I kinda thought I went through that. It was just first is the integrity. The fact that for all these years, he’s held pretty much the same values as I have when it comes to helping people that are relatively new and old and, you know, giving of his time in itself to do that, I think as well, just from the first couple of times, just meeting that, his demeanor a, you know, he might be soft-spoken but very knowledgeable as well.

He’s not an idiot. And so he, he has taught me a lot of stuff on his end. And as I told you before, I told him, I told many people when I, when I meet them, it’s like, you know, I don’t know everything about the industry, but I sure as hell know the people who do and it comes to this side of it. I mean, definitely I bring mark into the equation, but I don’t know for some reason him and I, even though, as I said, we, we have different personalities, but we’re very similar.

And when it comes to work, we just, we are very sensitive to each other’s are very respectful of each other’s personality and experience. And we listen. And then if somebody is in a disagreement, rather than just saying, you know, whatever it’s going to, okay, let’s, let’s take that and let’s see if there’s a way we can work with both or do whatever. Like it’s a very constructive meeting that we have.

And you know, sometimes when we’re talking to clients, I can take I’m, I’m able to understand him a lot better so that if I see that, you know, at times when people talk to programmers, they can be lost. You know, there’s this little glow that happens in the rise. I can sometimes put it into illustration that they pick up on it and go, okay, I get it. So I think I help out in that way.

I hope I do, because I like to think that, you know, that I helped mark because I sure as hell can help him in programming. So, but yeah, so, but no, he’s just, he’s one of these guys that it’s hard to pinpoint because there’s, there’s a lot of respect. There’s a lot of integrity. There’s a lot of knowledge and experience that he has. And I, I respect somebody like that who looks at other people as opportunities of success, not too, rather than people to screw over.


Speaker 1 (26m 2s): Yeah. I got you. Now, let me ask you both some questions and I’ll start with mark. You both been at endless trade chosen parties had, do you have any stories I’d like to share the giggle giggle. Giggle. Okay. Yeah. Into that question first.

Speaker 2 (26m 23s): Okay. I remember many years back when, and I think this is where a lot of started as to who I was and how companies who hired me at the time trusted me is because there was a time when I was working at a company and another one was trying get me to hire me. And I was declining their offer. So in Vegas they actually sent two girls to my room.

And I remember the knock on the door and I opened it and it was, you know, these two girls were standing there and I knew exactly what was going on. So I actually reached into my pocket and I gave them each, sorry, I gave them $500. And I just said, you know, tell you what go downstairs to the casino. But when you go back and talk to these guys, tell them that I was the best fuck you ever had in the world. And that you can’t believe that a white guy ever had a Dick like yours and just go.

And they did. And because, and then later on, they came back to me and they said, why? And I, and I just basically told, because I said, if I can be bought and sold for a piece of ass, then the next person’s going to come around and they’re going to ask for, offer me another piece of ass. And if I could be bought and sold for that, then I’m not going to be trusted at all in this industry because that’s how easy I could be bought. Hey

Speaker 1 (27m 56s): Mark. Do you understand that? I’m, I’m trying to, I’m trying to, I’m trying to go with the logic here and I’m having no, I didn’t think so. No bullshit to me. Yeah, it really does actually, but yeah, it’s worth it. So mark, you don’t have any stories.

Speaker 3 (28m 11s): Well, I do. It just, it’s not as colorful as Rob’s. Come on, give me this. Give me a story. Well, it’s not that it’s okay. I guess, but we decided to throw a party on a yacht in, at Internext in Florida. Sorry. I forgot the year. And it took the yod became more of a party boat because people were interested in, then it became more complicated because we hired a steel drum band and then we needed to bars and things like that.

And then everything turned out to in the end. Really good. Oh, sorry. Except that there is a couple of hurricanes floating around threatening, disrupt everything. And there was no way they’re going to give their money back level. So it was a very expensive events put together and it ended up working pretty well, at least for the first hour, until the coast guard came around and shut it, shut everything down and made our boat turned around.

Speaker 1 (29m 8s): Oh, that sucks. That’s

Speaker 3 (29m 10s): And our owner sign fell off the boat into the, into the water. And you know, like it was just a bunch of minor things, but it was the first time I’d ever done anything that big and that expensive. I really couldn’t enjoy myself that much. You know, eventually I smiled my way through it and it was still a positive experience in the end, but yeah,

Speaker 1 (29m 34s): Sometimes not sometimes, you know, sometimes when you’re throwing the party, you don’t have near as much as the people who were at the party. That’s that’s been my experience.

Speaker 3 (29m 45s): Yeah. That’s true. Cause you worried about everyone else having fun.

Speaker 1 (29m 48s): Exactly. Now, Rob, pretend I’m a client and the two of your work and on my website, when it comes to a project who’s in charge or is it a collaboration of the two of you?

Speaker 2 (29m 59s): It’s not a matter of who’s in charge. It’s, who’s the most capable of handling a particular situation in the project. So if we’re talking programming, obviously mark is the one who speaks.

Speaker 3 (30m 15s): If we talk, I would say the client is in charge, but part of what you’re paying for is the advice. But yeah, Robert and I are doing different jobs on, on, on that projects like that. Excuse me. I’m losing my voice. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to cut you off. Continue.

Speaker 2 (30m 36s): Yeah, no, actually mark. No, thank you, mark. That’s a very good, I should have said that as well, but yeah, no. Like if it comes to marketing and SEO and things like that, then I’ll jump in. But mark is always there to work with me all of that and, and vice versa. But at the end of the day, it’s the client who who’s really in charge of the whole thing. I mean, they’re, they’re the ones who got the final say on what goes, where does it go? It’s our job to give them the information so that they make an informed decision.

Speaker 1 (31m 10s): Now, mark, there are new regulations coming down regarding how websites handle their legal matters as well as their processing. Things can change quickly. How do you stay on top of it and adapt?

Speaker 3 (31m 23s): Well, I pay attention to like companies like X bays who are always, you know, putting it then a new set really fast. And then I’m also talking to people I partner with. So for example, I’m in touch with Metro RedNet belling. And I asked them about the, the change is coming to MasterCard, right? So people like Mitch, people like Kathy at SEG pay, et cetera. They’re really good at the, at the making sure that, you know, adult sites are running properly and that all the I’s dotted and T’s crossed, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (31m 57s): Okay. Now with this new collaboration, is there anything now you two can’t handle as far as the potential clients Rob?

Speaker 2 (32m 7s): Well there’s, as I said, our network of people has grown to such an extent that if something is there that we potentially may or may not have an idea about, we can easily contact and get that information grow. But so far we really haven’t gotten to that point. I mean, arc has got a pretty darn good handle on everything on that side. And, and so far I’ve been pretty good on the, on what I’m doing, but I would think we’ve got a lot of things covered.

A lot of bases covered and we’ve, we’ve had, you know, clients, not just from the adult, but from the mainstream world. I know for mark, especially, or in the mainstream world, who’ve come in and you know, they’re, they’ve got some very, very unique ideas, but we can, we can handle it and we can do it. And we just know that we have a repertoire in our, in our, in our file system to get a hold of people, to give us a help if we need it.

Okay. Now. Yeah. Things come up the thrills off.

Speaker 1 (33m 25s): Yeah. Good. Now, now mark. And I’ll ask you guys both this, what do you do when you’re not working? How do you relax

Speaker 3 (33m 32s): For me? It’s I want to say reading, but I haven’t done much reading this year at all. So it’s a lot of catching up on then or binge watching some Netflix more exercise than I used to get that taken care of. You know, like it’s, it’s, it’s strangely normal things like gardening, taking care of our lawn and fixing the house and you know, things very, very, just not mundane, but you know, I like doing all that kind of stuff.

So it’s, that’s what keeps me busy when I’m not, you know, working on adults. I have a mainstream business as well, which is pretty automated at this point. So yeah, a lot of my offline time is, is that working around the house,

Speaker 2 (34m 25s): If it’s not online, like if it’s online, I’m reading, but with the wife of five kids, it’s mostly, you know, playing with the kids, keeping them happy. I love to cook. So I cook for the family. I keep the kids occupied in play. I try to read as much as I can, but that’s more, you know, adult orientated. I get out to certain events and listen to speakers.

But yeah, no, I like reading, playing with the kids, getting them laughing, just being a kid myself, easy to, easy to do in this industry. Isn’t it?

Speaker 3 (35m 11s): Oh, I forgot. I like, I have a drone. I like to fly a lot. So that’s, that’s always fun if Rob, if you don’t have a drone by yourself, you’re fine.

Speaker 2 (35m 19s): You know what? I had one, this is a true story. I had a drone, it was a, it was a helicopter type of thing. And I gave it to like, the kids were playing with it and then the grandfather came over, he started flying it and he brought it. He took it up so high that it went the signal and just went somewhere and Rover around for like about 20 minutes until we found it three streets over.

We have

Speaker 1 (35m 51s): Grandpa, grandpa, grandpa, grandpa, grandpa crashed the drone. Huh? I hate when that happens. That sounds, that sounds like a song, you know, grandma got run over by a reindeer, something along those lines. So yeah. What signs do you guys look for in a client to know if they’re going to succeed or fail and D and D help them out if they’re having issues. And if you do,

Speaker 3 (36m 21s): I’ll take that one first. So yeah. There’s I refuse a certain amount of clients if they have unrealistic expectations. So sometimes clients will want a, B and C and they, their ideas maybe are from 20 years ago or have either proven not to work or I know work or whatnot. So if a customer is paying me to write some software, I probably, I know it rubs some people the wrong way, but I try to give us some advice.

They should say, well, maybe you should consider doing it this way instead of that way. Why? Because XYZ 1, 2, 3, right? And sometimes you don’t like that idea. And you know, I will say, well, okay, maybe we shouldn’t work together because my experience is that this is not a good idea. Right? And sometimes there’s people that just have completely the wrong attitude about adult, for example. And this is a good growth story.

One guy called and he was an affiliate of some webcam company and he wanted his own. And when he was sorry, there’s noise. That scientists need to change rooms for a second. No, it’s okay. Go ahead. Sorry. So one time this guy called and he was interested in a website, but he had completely the wrong attitude. He was an affiliate of a campsite and he wanted his own and the way he was talking, he was saying he was completely disrespectful to women.

He was saying things, yeah, I’ve got all these bitches coming in and out these fucking whores, this and that. They, they don’t pay attention to what the fucking supposed to do. Fucking bitches LA, just like, oh great. You know? And so after a few minutes of listening to him, talk like that, I made up an excuse saying we’re actually kind of too busy call back another time, you know? So that those are the kind of people I will just never work with. How about you, Rob?

Speaker 2 (38m 33s): I’m pretty much when let’s say ditto to what mark has just said. Generally for me, I have a lot of people contacting me, even when we’ve, when I was working with somebody, I was getting like four or five people contacting me. I generally try to help them out at first, because to me it’s kinda like, you know, if it can be done for free, you know, trying to help them out because that’s always been the way that I have been.

And I’m not going to change that. Right. If they are really having a hard time and it’s becoming a little too difficult, then, I mean, you can give them step by step instructions. Right. But if they’re sitting there and they’re really good begging for some help and things like that, then you have to again, watch the attitude, which is exactly what mark was saying. You know, there are some people out there that are very disrespectful and, or just, don’t like taking advice.

You and I had this conversation before as to how companies are set up as kind of the same way when you’re working with somebody. If they’re willing to take advice and learn from it, then great. If they’re not prepared to learn, then what am I here for sure. So if they’re willing and to learn if they are serious about learning, because then, then I’m wasting my time because I can sit there and I could list off 10 or more things that they need to do to help them out.

And I can show them the path and I will give them all of the things, the tools that they need to do it. But, and then I’ll say, I’ll come back in a week and see how far you’ve gotten. If they haven’t done anything, then I know they’re not serious about it. Sure, sure. And yeah. So if they haven’t thought it through a planet through then it’s kinda like, you know, I don’t think that you can, you know, that it, you know, we, we would make a good pair to, to, to do anything, but, and now I’ve met some people that have surprised me.

I’m not saying that it’s perfect all the time. Sure. But you know, other, and I’ve made mistakes before. I mean, I’ve met people that I thought were just brilliant and they were great at leadership and, you know, they knew what they were doing and the whole thing. But then as things progressed, their mindset of us went completely the other way. And then I had to step out and step back and, and just say, okay, you, you do what you need to do. I mean, you stopped taking advice from me.

You stopped doing this. You’re going along your own path. You know, I, I wish you all the best. And I’ve seen that over the years so much. I, I don’t want to name companies. I mean, some of them they’ve already died, but normally the companies that I have to leave or the companies that, that I’ve had to step away from, generally they do die. And I just sit there and I watched them decline. I feel horrible because I know what it would take for them to grow.

Right. But they don’t want to listen. You know, very stubborn on that. It’s the

Speaker 1 (41m 60s): Old, it’s the old, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink

Speaker 2 (42m 5s): Or you can lead a horse to a drink. You can’t make them water. I liked

Speaker 1 (42m 10s): That. I liked that. I’m gonna use that. So, so Robert, a long time ago you described the adult industry as a family. Do you still feel that way? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (42m 20s): Very much so. Oh my God. I’m, I’m 60 years old and I still, you know, consider people, you know, brothers or sisters way before I consider them, you know, industry people. I mean, these are when we talk it’s no, we don’t talk about business as much as, you know, Hey, how’s your kids doing? You know, how’s people doing, how’s the wife.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Richard boss, for example. Sure. I, his daughter, who’s amazing. I mean, I remember her when she was like eight and now she’s like growing up and she’s going to college or something. And I’m just, I’ve been there all away watching and many, many people it’s, you get involved in their life and you talk things that are important to them. And, and it’s, it’s mostly because as well, you, you normally work with and you buy from people you trust.

Sure, sure. And so if I am, if I’m part of an organization of a part of something, it means that I feel comfortable enough to, to promote it. That means that somebody should be able to trust it because I do. And that’s, that’s kind of where that that’s part of the whole industry. Because if I see somebody is associated with a certain company, I’ll call them up and it’s like, Hey, you know, can I, you know, are these people good?

Can I trust them? And when you have that type of relationship, that’s beyond a working relationship that’s family. And so, yeah, that’s, that’s kind of where we are

Speaker 1 (44m 18s): Now. Mark, what would your advice be for someone new looking to get into adult, both in front of the camera and also behind the camera?

Speaker 3 (44m 28s): First thing I would say would be to create what you love. So for example, whatever, someone’s fetishes, whatever they really like about, you know, sex is a whatever really turns them on is something that they should focus on. So if they’re going to start a website, let’s say the guy has as a foot fetish, he shouldn’t make a site about anything else. Right? If the, whoever, the, whoever the person is, if they’re a business owner or a model or a photographer, build their business based on what they really like.

Speaker 1 (45m 7s): How about you, Robert?

Speaker 2 (45m 9s): That’s a very good question. That’s why I asked it. Yeah. Somebody getting in the industry, I would basically say, you know, you gotta start, you know, if you’re going in as a sales rep, read, read, and read more, just get yourself up on what’s happening currently. Right? If you are cam model, do the same thing, but also be yourself or listen to your clients.

If you’re an owner, listen to you, listen to your elders.

Speaker 1 (45m 48s): Oh, you are, you do sound like a parent.

Speaker 2 (45m 52s): Yeah. Like it’s like, listen to your elders. There are people around. Who’ve been around for a long time. Listen to them. Don’t listen to the other yahoos that are on the boards that are just trying to create crop. And you know, you think that they’re the greatest things in the world? No, no. Do what I do. And I told you that I did this before. When I go to a, a party at a trade show, I never get involved in some of the stuff that’s happening. I always go to the back of the room, the farthest table.

And you will always find a couple people sitting there and you sit down and I’ll guarantee you nine times out of 10. Those will be the owners of companies. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (46m 33s): They’re not going to get involved in all the bullshit.

Speaker 2 (46m 35s): Right. And believe it or not. I think that’s how mark and I met because he’s the same way. And so he was sitting at the back there. That’s where I went, because I’ve always believed that yeah.

Speaker 3 (46m 51s): Painted in anything like that. But yeah, I would, I’m always more of the kind of person that would hang back. I would also tell anyone new that’s once again, involved in the industry is to join X bin X Right. It’s free and you can sign up and you meet the veterans and you meet the newbies and the models and the lawyers and the, you know, and the, the super Bruce’s like you and the world and things like that. Right.

And you’re, you can ask questions and you know, there’s more than several people in subject that will jump on the chance to answer the questions and help people out.

Speaker 1 (47m 35s): People are very helpful. I miss, I miss the why on forums because they were that way too.

Speaker 2 (47m 40s): Yep. Yeah. I was a moderator on those boards. Yup. Yup. I remember back in the day, but that’s what I mean by listen to your elders because on experts, they’re the ones who give you advice.

Speaker 1 (47m 59s): Robert, you are, you are a dad.

Speaker 2 (48m 2s): Yeah, I guess so. Oh yeah. But yeah, no, it’s it’s you have old people have gone through a lot of stuff. And if they’re prepared to share with you, what, they’ve the experiences, the good and the bad and what to avoid and what to grasp onto, then you need to take that advice and go with it. And if you can’t do that, then you shouldn’t even be here.

Speaker 1 (48m 28s): I agree. I agree. Well, Hey, Robert, mark, I’d like to thank you guys for being our guest today on adult. Say broker tuck, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. Thank you for having me

Speaker 2 (48m 39s): And thank you. Yeah. Thank you for having us, Bruce. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (48m 43s): Fantastic. Thanks guys. My broker tip today is part one on how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a cam site, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site or something else. If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want and what niche? There are literally hundreds of niches and many sub niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears and mature, bareback Asian, Latino amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification.

Plus there’s hardcore jocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms straight has even more niches. I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site or I want to buy a porn site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like men and want to buy a straight site. That’s probably a really bad idea.

Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays apart, what is your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning. Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a campsite with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’re going to need a huge investment to build it up.

In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk more about this subject next week. And next week, we’ll be talking to LA J co PETA of why not.

Speaker 0 (50m 47s): And that’s it for this week’s adult side broker talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guests, Mark Prince and Robert Warren, up to Talk to you again next week on adult slate, broker talk. I have Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Reba Rocket of Takedown Piracy.

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Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult type broker talk is Reba rocket vice president of marketing and communications at take down piracy, Reba. Thanks for being with us today on the adult side broker talk. Now Reba’s very eclectic background includes seven years as a morning show radio jock, and late night television host on Houston’s NBC affiliate, the syndicate coordinator for one of the world’s largest security firms, a licensed real estate agent in three states and more the common theme through all our careers included some form of marketing and communications.

And she’s thrilled to have the privilege of working for one of the most successful anti-piracy content protection copyright enforcement firms anywhere take, take down. Piracy was founded by Nate glass in 2008. In fact, I met him bright after he founded the company. Now in his 13th year in business, it’s removed over 126.2 million infringements from the internet utilizing digital fingerprinting technology that does not require the cooperation of over 133 of the most prolific tube sites take down.

Piracy is become one of the most trusted names in anti-piracy content protection and content enforcement well known and respected news sources like Nightline, Buzzfeed, Forbes, Huffington post, and more considered takedown piracy. The source for expert commentary and the company is the go-to service for the ever-growing list of clients and sorry, Reba. That’s all we have time for

Speaker 2 (4m 40s): Today. So

Speaker 1 (4m 44s): That’s it. That’s it. That’s your commercial. Okay. So Reba, the first thing I want to ask you about is your broadcast career. Since I always have a, also have a background in radio and TV, how did you go from there to where you are now?

Speaker 3 (4m 57s): Oh gosh. Well, there was a lot in between. I mean, like I just jumped out as a CDO, into working for take down piracy. I actually missed the Boston for a hot minute. Then a few years there, I had an opportunity to attend Harvard university. They have a college of extension studies program, which is designed for people who don’t attend traditionally straight out of high school.

So I, I got to attend a class there and I also, I held them in my rose state licenses in Boston as well. And then we moved back here about eight years ago and I worked for a one of Amazon’s largest third party sellers globally is real estate here as well. But I knew that there was a fit for me in the company. I can just see it. And so I started working with him and I just never looked back.


Speaker 1 (6m 2s): Yeah, your, your resume must be like 14 pages long because you just added another page. Now,

Speaker 3 (6m 9s): When you get to do this all, if you get a lung resume, oh,

Speaker 1 (6m 14s): I have a feeling. I have a feeling I’m a lot older. So how did take down piracy, get it start.

Speaker 3 (6m 21s): It’s such a fun story. So Nate about two and a half decades ago was, you know, very young working as a clerk in an adult store and just was really uniquely capable of kind of looking at marketplaces and retail and seeing what they needed to do. And so he was promoted. He was pulled away by other companies and then ultimately he ended up working for hush and as, as a buyer and they, they created something that you think sounds fun.

They wanted to sit him in an RV and travel around the country. This was back before we really had the time to databases that we do now. So he got into a and RV for three years and city to city all over the United States, cataloging all of the stores and also selling gear DVDs and products like he noticed was as time went on, people were buying less and less.

And it wasn’t because the product wasn’t good. It was because they were all saying the same thing, which was, you know what, we’re not selling as many DVDs. People are getting it for free on the internet. And so Nate being very inquisitive, man, that he is started doing some research and discovered gene, yay. Everybody said, you know, oh, you have to be a lawyer. And he read through it. And he said, I don’t think you do. And so he likes his boss and said, how do you feel about me sending a few of these CMTA notices for our content and see what happened?

And his boss said, absolutely. And it just grew from there. Ultimately Nate’s always wanted to own and operate his own company. And so when he got to the point where the revenue, he was generating sites, doing the services Matt, he was making in that RV driving three years, he went to his boss and said, Hey, I want to take this. <inaudible> just go see your thing. That’s awesome.

That was very <inaudible>

Speaker 1 (8m 43s): Was pretty young when he started the company. I recall that. And you know, obviously piracy has gotten a lot worse since he started. Right.

Speaker 3 (8m 52s): Well, I don’t know. It depends on how you look at it, right? If talking about per capita, probably about the same, but there are more sites now, there are more types of sites. They’re more technology that makes it easier for pirates. You know, I think back in the day, they would have to really wretch their, their time and energy to create, you know, a pirated copy of something and then get it uploaded. Now everything is, we have all that technology on your phone.

So I think that it’s grown exponentially that because of those factors.

Speaker 1 (9m 31s): Yeah. Yeah. So what industry and anti-piracy changes have you seen since the company went into business?

Speaker 3 (9m 39s): I mean, for sure, the technology that we use to keep up with piracy, you know, back in the day, everybody got their fingers out and typed in the name of a brand and hosted, it popped up on Google. And then we would go to that site. Now we have all kinds of proprietary software, not the least of which is our digital fingerprinting, which makes it possible for us to combat piracy much faster than any human or team that humans could do.

The other thing we’ve seen is some of these sites that used to be row with piracy are becoming either a silliest or they’re becoming more legitimate and they’re responding to notices or creating channels and profiles for people so they can post legitimate content. So we’re seeing this site kindness and a little bit to the pressure of the DNP laws. Okay.

Speaker 1 (10m 39s): So how has the company adapted to these changes?

Speaker 3 (10m 44s): Well, first and foremost, like I said, the technology creating software that allows us to new, faster than pirate commune because there’s a few of us and there’s a bazillion of them, you know, we’ve hired on more employees. And also the relationships that we’ve built have made a different boat, different both on the side of clients, because we built this reputation that just brings us more and more clients every day, but also with insights and Torrance and file lockers, they have come to realize that we are forced.

We don’t just back down. And those relationships have become in some cases. I mean, listen, there’s, it takes a special personality for somebody to rip off somebody else’s content and monetize it. We’re not talking about the nice people in the world that built the relationship with these people in a way that does not fit that sort of behavior that shows them how they can legitimately make money. We have had some sites that we been instrumental, turning them from a pirate sites and affiliate sites.

So those relationships have helped us adapt as well. That’s

Speaker 1 (12m 3s): Funny. That’s phenomenal for your clients though. I mean, you take a negative and make it a positive.

Speaker 3 (12m 7s): Absolutely. I mean, you know, you can come out with a bull in a China shop and piss everybody off and there are some people there not to be negotiated with there in terms of pirates or pirate sites. There are some sites that are just discovering beer and people that, I mean, I’ll be honest with you until I met Nate. I didn’t know that when I opened something up on the internet and looked at it that it might not be from the source and somebody else might be monetizing it that never even occurred to me, just that educational component goes a long way with who don’t realize how bad they really are.

What they’re doing is really bad that their behavior is. And so we kind of convinced them that there’s a better way. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13m 1s): And a lot of it is just kids, ope uploading stuff. And you know, it’s, you might want to say it’s innocent, but it’s still,

Speaker 3 (13m 9s): I don’t know that a lot is frankly, I don’t have the stats. It says the demographics of the pirate. But I will say that it’s an, a multitude of factors. I mean, there are people who are in countries that are destitute and this is, you know, a way that they can make enough money to survive and it doesn’t make it right. But you know, they’re in countries that sort of turn a blind eye. Sometimes people are just not, not well, like you like it, like you said, it’s

Speaker 1 (13m 44s): Come to the earth. I mean, that reminds, that reminds me of a WK RP episode. I I’m sure. I’m sure you remember that show.

Speaker 3 (13m 53s): That is my witness. I swear to Bly.

Speaker 1 (13m 58s): I remember that when they, when they had it, when they had to bring up the band scum of the earth, that was funny, man. That was really funny. Oh God, everybody in radio loved that show. And a lot of newer people in radio went back and watched that show and said, oh, I know that guy. Oh, I know her all I know him. I just never saw anybody like Jennifer. But anyway, that’s unfortunately,

Speaker 3 (14m 20s): And the thing is, you know, just yesterday I had a young lady call. She had produced some content for a customer and the customer is now sharing the stuff everywhere and, and doing some things that are very nice. And you know, it it’s heartbreaking. I mean, she was in tears because it never occurred to her that she thought she was giving us this. Somebody, you know, selling it to somebody personally, shouldn’t think they weren’t going to take it and profit from it. And which Jesus really, as these people that are hired as they are being injured financially or personally.

Yep. So this is a personal mission for us. It’s an issue of consent. The staff. Oh,

Speaker 1 (15m 8s): Absolutely. Absolutely. So let’s say we meet at a show and I hope we do someday soon. And you have a chance to do your elevator pitch. Give me your elevator pitch.

Speaker 3 (15m 20s): Oh gosh. Do you want the elevator? All right. How long he, you has about four minutes, but I got all kinds of time. All right. All right. So here is how them piracy work. We have this multi-pronged approach to what we do first and foremost, we’re looking at places like search engines. So Google, for example, we’re looking 10 pages deep, which is about a hundred search results. And our goal is to make sure that legitimate content or brand, or indeed independent content producer is the top of those search results.

And the pirated content is getting pushed further and further down. Google has this sort of impossible to decipher algorithm, but the bottom line is they’re not looking at a site and saying, well, this is hired. And so that should be further down. They’re looking at getting results and, you know, seeing that search engine. So it’s a constant job. We do it every day. Next we’re looking at places like file offers and torrent. And just to give you an example, we added keep to share file locker.

We added them at the end of last summer and we have already removed and I want to make this clear. There’s a difference between revisiting and reporting till the cows come home, as we say down south, but removing them as another thing. So I am always talking about renewables, talked about reporting it’s called results. Thank you. So yes, from this one file author Kikuyu share Justin’s last summer, we have renewed almost 4 million friends.

Yeah. Daniel, we’re looking at social media, blogs forums. Those have become really rampant. As of late it’s kind of choice is yours for pirates to share content for people who don’t want to pay for their pharmacies. And then finally, and this is one of my favorite parts. We monitor kids sites using something called digital fingerprinting. And what digital fingerprinting is, is we’re taking tiny bits of visual data from a video.

We see not retain copies of the videos. I have one client that has 6 million on sorry, 7 million videos. And we don’t have room for that. We just keep these fingerprints. And we also fingerprinted over 200 million videos across more than 133 to sites and counting as we add more all the time. So our son plays the max game. Remember when you were a kid and with the card over one by one. And then we got a match that our system does all day long. And every time it gets me hit, it sends it to our tech team to verify that it has a high level of possibility to is an infringement.

And then it comes to our office here and we put our eyes on every single infringement to make sure that it’s not fair use. That is not a legitimate source that maybe somebody forgot to tell us about that it was their affiliate or one of their profiles is channel. And then the issue I notice. And when you put all of these things together, as you mentioned in the beginning, need have remixed over 120 million inferences from the internet. That’s

Speaker 1 (18m 45s): Crazy. That’s crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Why does studios and pay sites or anyone else for that matter need to use your services?

Speaker 3 (18m 55s): I mean, this is how I have always run my personal business. I like to make money. That’s what I, in any business, whether it’s real estate or securities or radio, I want to do the things that are going to profit me. If I have to take time, for example, out of my job to, you know, paint my office, that’s time taken away from what I do. I can pay somebody a fraction of what I make to paint the office.

So when it comes to piracy, first and foremost, there is not a human that can sign and remove massive amounts of infringement that we can hunting and pecking on the computer. You know, our proprietary software, digital fingerprinting is catch factor and any time, whether it is a video or a, an independent content producer takes time out of their day away from what they did to make money, which is selling content, they’re losing money.

And our, our prices are so ridiculously affordable, that it behooves them to hire us. Even if they hired 10 employees, they simply cannot do what we do as fast as what we use. We do not cost what one employee a month with Guzman’s list. Right,

Speaker 1 (20m 24s): Right now. And I’ve, I’ve always been with a mind, hire an expert. You know, if you want something done, right. Hire somebody who does it for a living, don’t try to fix your own car. Hell I don’t even wash my own car. So, you know, a higher PO cursor in Thailand doesn’t cost that much. But although,

Speaker 4 (20m 46s): Although, although, although my, all the, my wife

Speaker 1 (20m 48s): Did that as we’re recording this, my wife did get a quote from an attorney to file a lawsuit today for about 5,000 us dollars. And I basically told him to go told my wife to tell him to go fuck himself. But anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (21m 1s): And I’m not suggesting that people don’t be not be proactive in finding timestamp, right? The more we do this, the more we find niche sites, especially as we work with independent producers, you know, there’s sites that are, are, we’re not really the kind of site where you would find studios content on that as we work more and more with clip stores and more and more than you can for dancers, we’re finding all these new sites and we’re adding them. So it’s great when it, I have a producer saying, Hey, have you seen this side?

And the us is that it’s swore monitoring.

Speaker 1 (21m 35s): So how does you told me about digital fingerprinting? How does that benefit your club?

Speaker 3 (21m 42s): Well, it benefits them in a lot of ways. First of all, when you’re talking about monitoring 133 sites without digital fingerprinting, you’re talking about probably typing in your name or typing in the name of the scene and trying to find your content on the two site, one by one. Right. But when you have digital fingerprinting, what we have found is that it’s not like the pirates go, Hey, everybody here selling content, here’s their name?

Here’s the brand. Here’s where we found it. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. They don’t

Speaker 1 (22m 17s): Have a pie. They don’t have a pirates yellow page.

Speaker 3 (22m 20s): Well that, you know, you know, they say hotline with dildo or brunette with big boots. Yeah. Go ahead and type that in and see you bring up the digital fingerprinting de-anonymize in the video. It makes it possible for us to find content. And let me just tell you, it doesn’t matter if the content has been correct or Lurry, or they crossed the watermark. Desistance they’ll find it. It is really that good.

And so, yeah, I, I it’s, I apologize. I kind of forgot where I was going with all this, but the kind of technology that is impossible for a human to do on their own or with a team one by one

Speaker 1 (23m 7s): Jumps, the tracks constantly. How many employees do you have? By the way

Speaker 3 (23m 13s): We have a handful, we don’t have a lot. We rely very much on our proprietary software. It’s actually kind of mind boggling to think of how, and I’ve seen, you know, so-called competitors, it shows, and they have, you know, this entourage and people, and we run circles around them in terms of breakdowns. So we work smart and we have a passion for it. So we’re up at our desk by five most mornings and do some sort of work seven days a week.

Speaker 1 (23m 45s): I can hear the passion in your voice. Definitely. And having, having met, having met Nate, I know he’s passionate about it. And a lot of people in adult are passionate about piracy because it’s probably the number one hot button issue and in the entire industry, which was one of the reasons I wanted to have you on, how do you keep up with all the new sites and all the new types of sites in our industry,

Speaker 3 (24m 9s): We are constantly evolving our proprietary technology and methods. You can’t rest on your laurels in any technology industry, because it’s always changing and you know, like it or not piracy is this tech issues. So we’re constantly evolving our, our software, our AI, our methods, we classify sites and add them to our monitoring system, wherever we need to and listen to our content producers.

You know, it’s easy to get blinders on because you can find a site like a giant pile locker, and it’s like a rabbit hole. You can find so much content there. And so we have to listen to our producers, what they’re telling us, you know, Hey, you know, I call them white nights. These white nights sent me, you know, this blog, you know, I don’t know some of your blog that just popped up yesterday. And so doing those three things really helps us keep to the forefront.

And also our partner, AB registry, they do all of our tests and all of our AI, that guy has the biggest brain of anybody I’ve ever met. And, you know, he is constantly evolving and fine tuning his protocols and software and tech tricks to make sure that we’re able to keep up with everything. What’s

Speaker 1 (25m 36s): Good. Now why did take downs really matter

Speaker 3 (25m 41s): Really matter? And I, and I, let me just preface this by saying, it’s very frustrating when people take an app to set it, cause bros, you know me, this is like police work. It, this is Tampa maps. If somebody said to a law enforcement officer, well, you shouldn’t arrest a criminal. Cause there’s just another one around the corner. That’s the same thing with takedown. They do matter. First of all, time, you renew a pirated piece of content and infringement. You are keeping somebody else from profiting, from the work that you haven’t done.

And I don’t know about you, but I don’t like to work for free and then let somebody else have my money. This is true. I do it way too much. So I love that. I don’t. But anyway, go ahead. I mean, he had a client that signed up January of last year when we were still at their new shows and they were a little bit skeptical and they told us that at the end of the year, they have your sense to your efforts. And they attributed at least some of that, because look, we’re not entirely responsible for it.

A lot of people were second home watching adults content last year, they had their best year ever. They had been with another quote competitor for a year or two before in the first sound of infringements for them. So <inaudible> oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27m 11s): Absolutely. It was a rhetorical question. But do you, do you have to be a big studio or a big clip store to use your services?

Speaker 3 (27m 24s): You know, in the old days he did, because that was really what was out there. But we started beginning of last year, we started getting more and more calls from independent producers, you know, dinner on put sores that did not adequately protect their content. So we content for flips for sale. And I want this to give you an example. I started working for sale in August, September last year, and we’ve already removed over 3.2 million infringements for them.

So yes, the answer is in the past, you did, but we started getting more and more of these independent content producers who are with other stores. Yeah. Well, and I just have to tell you, I mean, I’m going to, well, I’ll talk about that in a minute about the stick on this topic, because I can go off on tangents all day.

Speaker 1 (28m 25s): We don’t, we there’s no time. There’s no time limit area. So, you know,

Speaker 3 (28m 30s): Clear my calendar. But to answer your question, we started getting more and more calls from these indie producers. And originally we were just, you know, they would call me, I would talk to them, we would sign them up. And we said, you know, these models and content producers, you’re already on your computer, let’s come up with something that make their life easier. So we came up with a website called clip century, E N T R Y, and where independent content producers can go.

There’s a video of me telling them all about our services. There’s all kinds of facts and information on there. The coolest part about it is they can sign up. It’s super easy. They just need an email address and then make up their own password. But they can actually upload their content to that site. And we will fingerprint it for them. And we don’t keep those copies either. We just keep the fingerprints and they have a dashboard. They can see what they’ve uploaded already in case they forget, like, did I upload the scene or not?

They get in pretty much real-time we update updated about every 15 minutes while we take down for them as it happens, they get copies of every single notice we send out, they send me a question through their contact form or they can, if they found the URL that they want us to look at and verify and take down. So we create this website that makes it possible for independent contemporaries or the not just big videos or clips stores to take advantage of that we provide.

So if

Speaker 1 (30m 9s): You just do so if you’re, I don’t say just because they’re the backbone of the industry, but if you’re a performer, you can, you can do this.

Speaker 3 (30m 17s): Absolutely. And I mean, listen, you’re, there are performance that are just starting out. Maybe there’s a, you know, making this couple hundred bucks a month performance, they’re making, you know, seven figures they’re making big money. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (30m 37s): So what are some myths or misinformation about anti-piracy that you’d like to discuss?

Speaker 3 (30m 44s): Well, first of all, you know, you don’t have to be a lawyer. A lot of people, we are not lawyers by the way, here at taken higher season, we will refer you to somebody if you need one, but we did not do we do not practice law, so you don’t have to be a lawyer to do it. There’s what’s another myth. Oh, let me get right back up. Well, not really. There are very, very interested in this a long time.

So we are intrigued now. It is true that you might find your scene, we get it removed, and then it goes up somewhere else. Because if we’re going one pirate who wants to profit from your content, right? A lot of places do adhere to being repeat infringer policy. We get emails all the time from pirates, you know, please for, you know, I, I won’t do it again. You’re closing my account. Well, you know, you’d have three strikes, but you’re just out.

That is not our experience that he just goes right back up. It may go up on the same site with another pirate. It may go up on another side, but we don’t find it. It just pops right back up. That’s not our experience. I’ve heard say that the DNC doesn’t work well. It’s worked for us more than 120 50 million times. And we have been really instrumental in, for example, building evidence for losses. I tell all my clients and potential clients, we are not a deity or not magic and not force a site, this posted in Russia to remove their content or a site that you know, should be removing your content.

That doesn’t. So what we can do is we can build the evidence for our crimes, which we have done. We have been instrumental in not just getting sites shut down, but also losing their with peanut processors, April 11 crashes. I don’t find a positive every time that happened. Yeah. So that’s that’s for me, pretty much the biggest myth or the biggest message.

I already have somebody protecting my content. You know, I’ll give you an example. I’ll meet them being with w we’re talking with a clip store last early, early last year and a more up and down. Oh no. We’re using the service and aging quote on upload, which is a whole nother thing. Date, go ahead and rabbit rabbit, go ahead and say it.

You know, we’re not, we’re not limited.

Speaker 1 (33m 33s): You can say, you can tell, you can say it’s bullshit. I can tell you. I can tell you’re thinking it.

Speaker 3 (33m 38s): Well, here’s the thing. I’m not saying that that technology doesn’t work, but if you are w you know, we call it having it, the thoughts box, the hand house. If a site can turn that system on and off, then you are allowing piracy. But just to give an example, need to test for this door on just 5% of their content on just one site that supposedly has this upload service and down and have thousands of infringement on that one site in one day.

Yeah, that’s me. That’s a myth too. When somebody, you know, looking, keep it from going live. I had, yes.

Speaker 1 (34m 27s): I can’t imagine why can’t okay. So I said it it’s bullshit. So why can’t people just do their own antivirus?

Speaker 3 (34m 37s): I mean, they can, the question is can they do it at the level of success and thoroughness and as inexpensively as we can. And that answer is no, but you can go onto Google and search their name, or go into the size and third spared me or hot blonde or hotline, and they can find it. Now we have more relationships with sites that have learned that we will escalate.

You’ll get cooperation. So if Jane Doe’s then notice, maybe they’ll take it down. Maybe they won’t probably get clients that say, I’ve been sending notices for four weeks and they’re not doing anything. And we issue an Edison. It comes down sometimes just the reputation and the relationship makes, you know, at different. And like we talked about earlier, you know, why then money and time that you could be producing content, which is what does it make money?

Or even, even if it’s not producing content, you know, going on social media and advertising your stuff or your

Speaker 1 (35m 52s): Marketing, or yeah, yeah. Dealing with you’re dealing with your affiliates or doing any one of how many different things site operators

Speaker 3 (36m 0s): Do the money. Exactly. Because he did better. We could do it faster and we can do more.

Speaker 1 (36m 7s): Like I said, I don’t fix my own car. God knows I don’t. My wife would never let me. Okay. So what do you do when a site says, Nope, now I know I got this DMCA, but now I’m not taking it down.

Speaker 3 (36m 21s): So I love this. So look full disclosure. If your stuff is on pirate day, we can get it down. Even Disney cannot get their content down from pirate bay and you know, how much money and fall Disney has. So there are a couple of sites that do not comply, period, no matter what. However, there are thousands of sites that do comply. And one of the things that we do emphasize should have taken down content and they haven’t, or for example, just recently, we had a site that they were taking down a video, but then under a different URL, you know, for cats.

And we called them on it. We started in geneticists to his proper, I’m sorry, his web hosts. And let me just tell you, he fell in line real fast. When the web host told them they were going to dump them. We’ll also, like I said earlier, you know, we’ll be your payment processor and I’ve got a nice, except not for a minute here. You know, we like to speak truth and piracy. One of the things that we find those frustrating and sad is many industry company are part of problems.

So as an example, there is a streaming, not a streaming site, a site, a cam site that advertises on so many pirate sites to be all about feminism. And you can

Speaker 1 (38m 2s): Call, you can call them out if you want. It doesn’t bother me.

Speaker 3 (38m 7s): See that because I like to be Pollyanna a little bit, but I’ll, you know, it’d be very easy to research where people can call me directly if they want to know. But I will tell you at that a month ago, Nate sent them an email and said, Hey man, this is a pirate site and you don’t comply. Your ads are on every single one of these videos. And so to their credit, they at least temporarily stopped the ads on that one too site.

Well, we sent them a total of 12 emails with 12 different sites that were doing the same thing. And it was like crickets. So there are people who are profiting from these producers by taking a percentage of what they produce on their site would be back there. If their website, if somebody can use their site for Cammie, you should get a piece of that profit. But then in addition to that, there, those producers there’s deaf getting ripped.

When they do a session, the guys are ripping the sessions, putting them up online. And that same campsite is sitting at the dance of piracy. And this is my, this is my favorite. There is a founder who recently started a, an anti-piracy service. Now the clothes store already pay a percentage of the performers profit. They actually just increased it recently.

And instead of them offering anti-piracy services like clips for sailor, I want clips. Instead of them making that part of their, their businesses sense to help profit themselves in their producers. They started as desperate service that people have to pay forward. And it is a modicum of the amount of services that we provide. So it’s, to me, it’s very,

Speaker 1 (40m 6s): I guess you’re not going to, I guess you’re not going to get that client.

Speaker 3 (40m 10s): Well, I, you know what, it’s fine because it’s knee, we turned down business. I mean, I did it, I did it tonight. We had an opportunity to work with growth porn. We turned that down because it was the stuff on their site was questionable at best. And I recorded it. So you don’t just find everything yet, because money is more important people. We, you know, we turn away business when it’s not right, but I think it’s patently offensive for somebody to profit from somebody’s content and then charge them a fee on top of what they’re already charging them for their profit sharing to protect that content.

I just, I just think that’s pretty right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40m 59s): That’s that’s down there. So what are you, what are you most proud of? Business-wise

Speaker 3 (41m 7s): First and foremost, it’s gotta be our integrity when we say something it’s true. We don’t mislead anybody. I just saw a site the other day. They claim to have 100% removal rate and you can go know, should

Speaker 1 (41m 27s): I, should I, should I say it again? No, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (41m 29s): Yeah. So they, you know, there’s, there’s different pockets of right. There’s the search engines and Torrance and file lockers and social media and twos, right? Even if you just list to this company, Google transparency report, their removal rate is 30%, but they have no problem putting on their home page 100% room or the latest thing. This is my favorite. We’ve saved $8 million for each. I can’t quantify that. That’s not even saying.

So the first and foremost I’m most proud of our integrity. Second of all, you know, as I mentioned, we, we do anti-piracy for a couple of clips, stores already clips for sale. And I want clips. I have people that will sometimes come to me because they don’t really they’re new, or they don’t really know, or maybe they, something came shouldn’t have come or should have come down, but didn’t, and they’ll send to us and go, Hey, you know, I saw you and I, I produce content on one of these two sides.

And I say, Hey, man, you’re already paying enough to get money to these sites. I’m not going to sign you up, but here’s my email address. Here’s my phone number. If there’s something that you need done and it’s not getting done, reach out to me, I’ll make it happen. So unlike that company, that doesn’t think anything that’s profiting from their producers and then also charging them for piracy. You know, we don’t, we don’t double bill people.

And also I love proving the naysayers wrong. There’s there’s a couple of people that in the beginning of Nate’s journey with take them higher, risky, they say, oh, he just has an impossible job ahead of him. Or, you know, anti-piracy, that’s not even gonna last if you’re, you know, we’ve grown exponentially every year and we do more anti-piracy every year. And so I’m kind of proud when, when we, when people that’s

Speaker 1 (43m 37s): Awesome. Well, Hey, Reba, I’d like to thank you for being our guests today on adult side broker tuck. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do the scan really soon.

Speaker 3 (43m 46s): I would love that. I think there’s a lot more layers to peel back and thank you for everything you do in general.

Speaker 1 (43m 54s): It’s, it’s a pleasure always for a fellow radio person.

Speaker 3 (43m 59s): Maybe we need, we need to pull out the old headphones and mikes and, and do another radio CISM time. I’m down.

Speaker 1 (44m 6s): My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sales price of a website. Number one is normally profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or down and how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to four times area.

I’ve also seen valuations of one time. If the profit is taking a nosedive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and review traffic are the most valuable tube. Traffic, the least valuable is the traffic reliable and sustainable. What is the traffic history?

In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as of profit and the valuations will of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website is the domain or something else? Dot com is still king. What is its Alexa rating? How many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important.

Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it, and how much time would be involved? What is the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week? How to buy a website and next week we’ll be talking to mark prints and Robert Warren from too

Speaker 0 (46m 4s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Reba Rocket. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Aerie Saunders of Webcam Startup.

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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re offering a rapidly growing hair shaving site, and the price for this site has just been reduced. The owner needs a fast sale for a new project.

He’s working on the site, shows women getting their heads shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it’s much easier to promote than most adults sites. The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they’re getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site. That’s a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects.

This is essentially the brains of the whole operation. It handles the billing and rebilling user information and video displays. There’s also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales. The first month alone, there is no paid advertising. They go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos and social media. The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow.

They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. This site has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars. There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to on after the sale. This great site is now available for only $399,000. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today, an adult site broker talk is Arie Saunders of webcam startup Arie.

Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk, thank

Speaker 2 (3m 19s): You for having me. I’m so excited to be here. It’s

Speaker 1 (3m 22s): A pleasure to have you. Okay. So Arie is a 24 year old performer and adult industry blogger. She CEO of webcam startup, very impressive. W C S U news, the cam land podcast, and many other sister sites. Her specialty is in model referrals, generating thousands of signups for various sites. Over the years, the specialty stems from the information that she wished she had as a new performer herself back in 2015, webcam startup is a comprehensive adult industry blog resource and guide for tips and tricks to succeeding in the indie adult industry.

In addition to helpful guides, informational videos, and regularly provided news on their platform. WC S U news. There are also directories created to assist new performers and navigating the important features on sites that they sign up for. The entire site is free to access and prioritizes model feedback directly from performers, as well as from social media to compile information, to help all performers succeed. You can find

So, first of all, airy, besides what I just mentioned, maybe you can tell me a little more about webcam startup. So

Speaker 2 (4m 46s): That was a great introduction. I wish you could introduce the site all the time. I’d be

Speaker 1 (4m 51s): Happy to, I, I’m not too expensive.

Speaker 2 (4m 55s): So what cam startup is a whole network of different sites. We’ve got our news site, we have our podcast, we have our site specializing in webmaster information and phone sex. Basically we have a whole network of things that apply to the indie adult industry and the most important thing about what PM startup and what it is, is providing free information where it’s very hard to find niche information about certain things that are clearly written out.

And you don’t have to like go through a bunch of videos to figure out what’s going on. We try to break it down as easy as possible and provide it free of charge and well, mostly free of charge. We do use affiliate links and referral links. So the sites are paying us basically. Well,

Speaker 1 (5m 45s): I hope so. You’re not just, you’re not just doing this out of the goodness of your heart then. Huh? So I

Speaker 2 (5m 51s): Was doing it out of the goodness of my heart. And that is how I originally connected with webcam startup. I did invent the idea, but yeah, now I get paid for it, thankfully. So it’s definitely better now, Hey,

Speaker 1 (6m 6s): There you go. Better, better to be paid than not to be paid. I’ve noticed that over the years, that’s something I’ve learned as time’s gone on. So why did webcam startups start the cam land podcast and WC S U news? So

Speaker 2 (6m 21s): Webcam startup has always been about having guides and we originally covered news as well, but we noticed a lot of keyword cannibalization within our content. And we wanted to make sure that performers were able to find the content they were looking for easily and didn’t have to sift through news. And we also find a lot of the mainstream networks that models follow like AVN and expat as well. They do cover the events. They don’t really go in depth into it.

It’s a lot of crossover between mainstream and indie. So what we’ve tried to do is focus entirely on the indie industry, which brought about WCSC news and the Camlin podcast for people who don’t want to scroll through a site and read what news is currently going on.

Speaker 1 (7m 10s): Okay. Now I’ve heard the term indie cam industry a lot. What’s the differentiation between the Indy cam industry and the rest of the cam industry. So

Speaker 2 (7m 23s): The biggest identifier for me for Indy is that you manage yourself and generally it you’ll be, you know, doing it from home. Your home is your home base. You probably do your own editing, your own scheduling. If you do collaborate with people, you’re setting that up by yourself. No, one’s taking a cut from you. Okay. So that’s my main way I identify it.

Speaker 1 (7m 46s): So really it’s, it’s independent models. It’s not models that are, that are working for studios. Yes.

Speaker 2 (7m 53s): While we do try to cover some studio news, it seems like they’re very secretive sometimes. So it’s a little harder to get in there. We do try to cover some of that as well. We do cover how to break up with your studio if you ever want to, because I personally almost always suggest being independent if you have the ability to sure. So yeah, we’ve gone into that a little bit. I think being independent is a huge thing. And if you don’t need a location or equipment provided, it’s definitely what I recommend.

Speaker 1 (8m 24s): Why, why should somebody be independent as opposed to, to having a place to go to work?

Speaker 2 (8m 30s): Having the place is pretty much the only benefit. There’s a overwhelming amount of virtual studios that have started up that guarantee things like traffic and other various things that they can’t really prove to you, that they’re offering you. And you can do a lot of the things they offer yourself. If you’re willing to put the time into researching and building up your audience and stuff like that. I, I don’t know some studios with the physical location. It’s awesome.

But it’s overwhelmingly virtual these days, at least in my area of the world. I’m in the U S

Speaker 1 (9m 8s): Yep. Yeah. We just sold, we just sold a virtual studio, so I was kind of going, oh, okay. So what are the benefits to performers finding information on webcam startup?

Speaker 2 (9m 23s): Oh, I went into it a little bit before, but it’s obviously that it’s free. I mean, you can look up stuff offered by other performers and there’s, you know, there’s people offering classes that you’re paying 50 to a hundred dollars for, or these like special guides that they send you in a Google drive and they’re charging you X amount for it. And I think my favorite part of it is that being a performer myself, I know I’m not charging performers for this information. It’s free of charge and you can also suggest ideas to us.

So say, you’re like, Hey, I need a guide on how to do the underwater fetish. That’s just an example because Katie did an excellent article on it. The other day we will research it. We will hire performers to actually give us their feedback or write up an article for us that are experienced and we will put it out there for free. And I think that is just super important to have out there because it’s very hard to find free information, especially on niche topics like fetishes or specific sites.

Speaker 1 (10m 27s): Yeah, no, the fact it’s a free resource and other people are charging that’s, that’s a, that’s a tremendous benefit for people. You know, it’s interesting. I spoke to one gentleman in Europe who was talking about the, you know, the fact that models can be affiliates. And I was like, wow, I never knew that. Maybe tell me a little bit about that. So I

Speaker 2 (10m 55s): Always tell every single model that isn’t an affiliate already. Like, you need to be an affiliate because models have the network for it. We have the traffic, you can make friends with fellow performers and we also have the customer traffic, right? So if you’re already promoting your links for your websites, there is no reason you can’t swap that link out for an affiliate link, a referral link and just be making extra profit from it. Or if your friend wants to sign up and you’re helping them get signed up and helping them with tips on how to succeed on a site, why not have them sign up under your link so you can directly see how your help is benefiting them and their success then pays you.

It totally makes sense. And it’s so important for models to do.

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): Yeah, no, absolutely. Now does web webcam startup having the benefits for studios or webmasters or is it only for performs? So

Speaker 2 (11m 51s): We definitely do have some benefits, studios and web masters. We have our sister site camming and webmasters and our original creator, Nate Hammond. He was actually an SEO expert. So we have things that can assist pretty much every branch of the industry. Well, that’s not my specialty. We obviously do have the guides up that people can look to and I’m, I’m still trying to become an expert myself. So I can also help a little more than your average, Joe.

Speaker 1 (12m 21s): Yeah. Nate’s a brain on SEO. I mean, he, he gave me so much help and I’m, I’m an SEO and technical dummy, you know, I, I don’t know a damn thing about any of that. I guess I could study it a little more, but I was always like, Nate, Nate, help me. What should I do here? And it’s really funny. I’ll tell you a funny story. I have all these domains. I’m up to 71 now that, yeah, that are well known. That’s just related to adult site broker. Okay.

I’ve like cornered the market and well, there’s, there’s, there’s stuff I’m going to do ahead, but that’s another story. Anyway, I, I put like a few lines of text on all of them and I was pointing them to my, my site and I said, what do you think Wayne? W what do you think Nate? And he’s like, no, take him down. Take him down. I go, he goes, the search engine was going to ban you. So it’s like, okay, I will. Yeah. So I just forwarded them. But yeah, I, I almost made a brutal mistake, but our, our, our natural SEO is very good because adult site broker, obviously, you know, that’s like a big search.

So anyway, but yeah, Nate, Nate’s been just phenomenal and I’ve been aware of the company since day one. So, so how did, how did you become a CEO by the way? So

Speaker 2 (13m 44s): I became CEO last year in January. Nature’s had a lot going on and we’d already gone into the partnership and he decided that he needed to take some time off. And it was only supposed to be a few months, but he, he never came back.

Speaker 1 (14m 3s): He’s he’s, he’s enjoying the checks.

Speaker 2 (14m 6s): Yes, he is. And I will have everybody know I do the accounting and he does still get paid. I’m not ripping Nate off, but he he’s great when I need him for anything technical, you can still log in and help me out with stuff like that. He is our behind the scenes guru for keeping the site functional at the very least. And I will admit, I have broken the site at least three times in the past year and a half. And he has come to the rescue,

Speaker 1 (14m 34s): Join the club. I break my side all the time. That’s what that’s well, that’s what devs are for man. You know, that’s what those are for. I got a guy. Oh, well, he always has been, no, I I’ve got a guy working full time now because it’s, it’s gotten to point where it’s necessary because we have an affiliate program and we’ve got a podcast and we’re about to launch a, well, by the time this runs we’ll have launched our marketplace, you know, we’re recording it like right before it’s going to launch.

And it’s a lot to do. There’s just a lot to do, but yes, I’m very good at breaking my site. So all of us tech dummies are my dear. So, so talk to me. Okay. So you’re 24 years old. Okay. You said last January, you became CEO. Yes. So you were 23. Talk about the journey. I I’m, I’m blown away. I really am. And I told you even before, when, before we started the interview, that I’m pretty blown away by you and your abilities at your tender years.

You’ve obviously been doing this all your adult life, been in the industry. Talk about the journey from starting as a performer to where you are today. So

Speaker 2 (15m 53s): When I started as a performer, I was actually still in high school. I was working full time while in high school. And I just, I hated my job. I was an assistant manager at a Dunkin donuts. I just needed more money. I was living with my girlfriend at the time. And I, I was just having a terrible time. I lived in New Jersey and I don’t know if you’re familiar with like the price of the states and everything, but New Jersey is like the most expensive state

Speaker 1 (16m 24s): Way more than way more than California. I don’t think so. Oh,

Speaker 2 (16m 28s): It’s up there. It’s gotta be like number two or number three with California is number one. It’s seriously up there. The taxes are ridiculous, but I just needed some money and I needed to be able to support myself and pay my bills and actually get a jumpstart in life. And the minimum wage at Dunkin donuts was not doing it. And

Speaker 1 (16m 50s): The coffee’s great, right. Getting

Speaker 2 (16m 54s): Free lattes on the daily. That is a benefit. I do spend a lot of money on coffee now. So it’s like, maybe I shoulda just kept that on the side, but I got started. And my first cam show was a joke I logged in and my room was a mess. And I was like, what am I even doing three days after I turned 18? And I’m just sitting in my computer chair, singing songs. And I got a bunch of viewers and it just, I never left after that. I loved the environment and I loved performing and connecting with people.

And I had a lot of performers along the way who I reached out to who helped me. And eventually I just kind of became like really invested in learning more about the industry, trying out new sites. And I was one of the first performers to use indie bill Preston piece to Indy bill

Speaker 3 (17m 48s): Now shut down. Yeah. I, I actually brokered it, but anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (17m 54s): So Nate was looking for performers to do reviews on various sites and he reached out to any bill and was like, Hey, send me one of your performers who can write a sentence that is legible. And that is how we got put into contact. And I just kept bringing up more suggestions to him like, Hey, have you thought about doing a review on this or covering this? And he was like, you know, what do whatever you want, I’ll pay you for it. And then eventually he brought me on as a partner because I was managing a lot of the communications on the site and it just kept going from there.

I mean, I, it kind of got like pushed into my lap, not to say I don’t love it, but we just slowly started to pass it off to me. And it felt very natural. And I love being in this position. I always loved writing and journalism and to do it in a niche that I now work in and specialize in is awesome.

Speaker 1 (18m 53s): Well, it’s, it’s pretty obvious. I hear the enthusiasm and it’s obvious. You’re very good at it. So it sounds like you’ve taken it to the next level. I kind of hate that saying, but it sounds like you definitely have. So what type of adult websites are showing growth? According to webcam startup stats. So

Speaker 2 (19m 12s): Fan clubs are all the rage right now. I can tell you only fans in particular, it’s crazy. The growth there is outstanding. And they, they know that, which is why they changed their referral program to be a year instead of lifetime. Got a lovely Ella. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19m 36s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19m 38s): That hurt me a little bit. That hurt me right in the heart, Leo, but it’s okay. But fan clubs are where it’s at. If you’re joining the industry or even if you’re in the industry already and you don’t have a fan club already just open one, the people

Speaker 1 (19m 53s): Love it. So you call, you call the clip sites, fan clubs. So

Speaker 2 (19m 57s): Fan clubs are different than clips sites.

Speaker 1 (20m 1s): Tell me, tell me about it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (20m 5s): So fan clubs are generally something that we’ll have a subscription and it’s going to have multiple performers on it. It’s not dedicated to one performer, right? So only fans is a fan club model. Centro is something different. We call those, I guess, AMS type sites. And then we have <inaudible>

Speaker 1 (20m 26s): Stands for adult membership site.

Speaker 2 (20m 31s): So we then have clip sites, which you can offer individual videos for sale. And there may be a subscription feature, but it’s not going to be the primary focus. So many VINs is a clip site. They have a membership, but it’s not the primary focus of many beds. And then your camming site, you cam on there, and that’s the primary focus. So we kind of organize it by whatever, either the site started as, or what they specialize

Speaker 1 (20m 55s): In. Okay. So webcam startup focuses not only on the camps, but also the fan clubs and the clip sites, right. And the phone

Speaker 2 (21m 4s): Sex sites, and pretty much everything like every single adult site, we have something on it. Even the adult social networks that you wouldn’t even really think of they’re on there. Okay.

Speaker 1 (21m 17s): All right. So what advice would you give to adult bloggers looking to get into affiliate marketing and actually make money? So first

Speaker 2 (21m 26s): You need to figure out what you want to target. Do you want to target model referrals or do you want to target customer referrals? And obviously customer referrals are going to be easier. Most sites will provide you with content to even promote, to get people to sign up. And if you’re waving someone’s boobs in someone’s face, like that’s getting signups is not super hard. If you have the ability to create a website and market that website. So outside of deciding what you’re going to be marketing to do some research on SEO, that is the biggest thing.

And that will put you ahead of everybody else, because you can pay hundreds upon hundreds of dollars for traffic, but nothing will ever be the ability to organically bring viewers to your site with SEL.

Speaker 1 (22m 15s): Hm. Interesting. Yeah. I’m a man. And you know, when women waved their boobs at me, I kind of do whatever they want. So anyway, yeah. I got to tell my wife to do that more often. So tell me more about the webcam start-up team. So

Speaker 2 (22m 37s): Our team is comprised of contributors that will just contribute randomly. But our main base is myself, Katie Churchill, who is our staff news writer.

Speaker 3 (22m 48s): She does our interviews. Just talk to you recently. Yeah, she

Speaker 1 (22m 53s): Did. And I got to tell you she was delightful. She’s

Speaker 2 (22m 57s): Wonderful. She like her confidence and her ability to just be honest is what drew me to her. Like she tells it how it is and I love her for that. And then we have Alec Hardy. He is our sex toy specialist, our male performers specialists. We find it very important to cover the male and female sides of the industry. So we have him there and he covers a great deal of stuff for male cameras and clip reformers.

And then we regularly receive contributions from Carrie Anthony, Greg Busyman and just various contributors. We pay a hundred dollars per pop per article. So like we, we definitely get our fair share of contributors and it’s super awesome.

Speaker 1 (23m 44s): That’s great. Now, are you currently looking for more contributors? Always,

Speaker 2 (23m 50s): If you have a topic you want to pitch us on the contact form it, my assistant will forward it to me and I will let you know if I want to run with it. If you search on the site and you can’t find what you’re looking for and you want to write about it, let me know. We’re currently looking for more people with like MFC experience and chatter bait experience, all the token sites. Me and Katie are a little introverted, so we’re not on the table. Oh

Speaker 1 (24m 17s): Yeah. I can really tell you guys are, are introverted. Yeah. It’s very obvious. Yeah. Okay. So do you prefer working on the B2B side of the industry or the performer side? So I

Speaker 2 (24m 32s): Love the B2B side, but a lot of the people on the B2B side are, I like to call them dude bros, which is probably okay.

Speaker 1 (24m 45s): Tell me a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (24m 48s): So the affiliate side of things and the business side of things is not heavily female dominant to begin with. And then if there are females in that side, generally they aren’t performers. So I find that a lot of communications on the business side of things, they don’t go that well. It’s gotten to the point where I’ve considered creating a male persona for it.

Speaker 1 (25m 13s): Okay. Okay. What’s your, what’s your male name?

Speaker 2 (25m 17s): Sometimes. I just pretend to be Nate and it works. People are like, oh my gosh, Nate, you’re typing so differently. You’re actually making sense. Cause he loves to send cryptic emails. Yes,

Speaker 1 (25m 28s): Yes. I know. On about 12 in a row. So what she, she laughs but she knows it’s true. It’s like, he’ll, he’ll start, he’ll start a, a thought. And then he sends another one and then he sends another one and then he sends

Speaker 2 (25m 41s): It over. I learned to decipher it. It’s a skill of mine. That’s how I’ve gotten this far.

Speaker 1 (25m 45s): Well, I think it’s, he’s used to chatting. So when he emails, he kind of emails like he chats. That’s pretty funny. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25m 54s): I just talked to him on Facebook messenger now, so I can just react to his messages. Hmm. That’s a good idea. Yeah. I

Speaker 1 (26m 1s): Should have probably done that because my inbox was just getting jammed and by the way, do tell them to email me because I miss him very much. Okay. So please tell him that because I really miss Nate. I’d love to, I’d love to connect. What advice would you give new models? Just getting into performing. I would

Speaker 2 (26m 19s): Say do your research. Don’t go into it naive. Don’t look at the first few rows on the campsite you want to try and don’t look at just the homepage on eclipse that you want to try. Look at the people on, you know, the last pages, see how long they’ve been on there. See how much time they’ve dedicated and try to keep in mind. It’s not instant money. A lot of people get into the industry with the idea that they’re going to instantly make thousands of dollars.

And we see the memes and the jokes like did you hear poor? Pup is paying millions for a video of you and your man. Like they’re not. And you got to come into it knowing that’s not what you’re going to get. You’re going to have to work hard. You’re gonna have to invest time. And even then it, you might not make thousands of thousands of dollars. It just might be a little side hustle. So you’d have to come in with your expectations set,

Speaker 1 (27m 17s): Right? Yeah. I think people in our industry in general think that like there’s gold in them there Hills and, and they, you know, they’ll start a site. Okay. And then they expect the whole world to come to them and give them money. And I’m sure models are exactly the same way. Oh

Speaker 2 (27m 39s): Yeah. You think that there’s this taboo with adult content. So you think that if you’re willing to show all this, that you deserve X amount, but at the end of the day, there’s always going to be someone online, giving away the same thing you’re giving away at a cheaper price. So you have to learn to market yourself, define your price and just become comfortable with how you’re going to market yourself. And the amount of time you’re going to have to put in before you actually see conversions that are making a decent amount of money.

Speaker 1 (28m 13s): And that brings up a good question. Obviously with the pandemic, there’s gotta be a pandemic related question because while there just does the number of performers on, on sites, like only fans is just massive now. Okay. How has that affected the market for performers? The

Speaker 2 (28m 36s): Performer turnover is absolutely horrendous. So it’s affected performers in a way where you’re losing a lot of trust with customers recently because they expect to buy from someone and then that person could not be there the next day. So you’re having to work a little bit harder to connect with your customer and kind of show them that if you’re offering like a membership or it’s something that’s not a one and done, but that you’re going to be there the next day posting and they’re going to get their money’s worth.

And of course, yeah, there’s always going to be like some customer that is just a pain and is like, oh,

Speaker 1 (29m 17s): Tomorrow, I can’t imagine that

Speaker 2 (29m 20s): Tomorrow. You won’t even be here. Give me my money’s worth now, but it’s definitely spiked dramatically due to the pandemic. But along with that comes the appreciation from customers who see models, working through the pandemic that haven’t stopped and have been around and want to keep supporting them. So it’s a double-edged sword, but it’s, it’s definitely a problem that over-saturation sucks. And I believe there was a study done that said like cam performers, the average cam performer stays around for like three weeks.

Wow. It’s gotta be worse during the pandemic.

Speaker 1 (29m 57s): Well, yeah. And they, because like you said, they expect to get rich in a week

Speaker 2 (30m 1s): And then they log on and have three viewers and they’re sorely disappointed.

Speaker 1 (30m 6s): So how much are you still performing by the way?

Speaker 2 (30m 9s): So I’m mostly doing offline stuff. Now I do fan clubs, clips. I actually recently got payment processing on my site because I’m trying to bring people over to me directly rather than through middlemen, because I get fired up about a lot of issues happening on clip sites more than I should. So I’ve, I’ve pretty much been focusing on that. I do some Twitch streams every once in a while, but I am planning on coming back to cam once things slow down on the new side of the industry throughout the summer, because you know, summer slump is notorious for being a slow time to your sleep sometimes.

Speaker 1 (30m 47s): Hm. Okay. Well you’re 20 you’re 24. So I’m sure you still have a lot of that youthful energy. So that’s a beautiful thing. And at 63 I need my beauty rest. God knows. So how do you feel your experience as a performer gives you better insight for adult blogging? Obviously

Speaker 2 (31m 8s): I’m dealing with it firsthand. My social media feed, isn’t other bloggers, it’s performers. It’s people. I consider my peers and my friends and people who have opinions on things going on. And I get to see it directly from their point of view. And then I get to log in to these sites and experience it myself. And it’s something that is great for adult blogging because basically I’m not bullshitting like a lot of people that you can type a review about a site and say it’s 10 out of 10.

Great. But do you actually log in and try to sell content on it and make money on it? Or are you just saying it’s great because you logged in and your affiliate platform looked awesome. So that’s very helpful having not only the experience of the affiliate side, but getting to see how other performers feel and how I feel myself logging into a site is super useful.

Speaker 1 (32m 5s): Now over the years, a lot of people in the adult industry have talked about how the, the, the affiliate model is dead. At least we’re pay sites are concerned. We talked a little bit about affiliates, but how important do you think affiliate and referral programs are in this industry?

Speaker 2 (32m 22s): I think that they are very important. I think, especially for people referring customers to the site that they can make or break a site because you’ll see the number one campsite is chatter bait. And it has been for some time now, and it’s their affiliate program. They offer anyone who converts a customer 20% of token purchases for life. And it’s a beautiful form of tracking. Not for, not for one year.

Oh my God. Don’t get me started on only fans. I could talk about that for days. Chatter bait is great because they know that giving these links to their performers, their performers are going to post these links and people are actually going to click them because people are visiting chatter bait because they want to see these hot girls, right? So the hat or hot guys, or a hot bays, they have these hot people posting their links for them. That’s basically, you know, that’s advertising.

They didn’t have to pay out of pocket for, they’re only paying based on conversion. And that is an excellent system to have.

Speaker 1 (33m 31s): Right. Right. Yeah. I, you know, I mean, you, if you it’s, it’s an old Axiom, but if you take care of people, people will take care of you. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (33m 44s): When I post a link personally, am I going to post a link to a site that’s going to pay me like 50% and nothing extra, or am I going to post a link to the site that will give me like 20%, whether they spend it on me or someone else just getting them to the site is what I needed to do. Obviously I’m going to go with the extra 20% who

Speaker 1 (34m 3s): Wouldn’t absolutely. Now talk about the future plans for webcam startup, or at least anything you can divulge without killing me.

Speaker 2 (34m 13s): So Kim’s startup is obviously going to just continue growing forever as the industry does, we will keep covering important news. We will keep covering important site updates and we are looking to expand even more. We are expanding our fetish lists right now to include more information about fetishes. And we have just a lot of projects that we want to get started on. Katie has started this amazing interview series, which you guys should definitely check out because we,

Speaker 1 (34m 43s): Because I’m on it.

Speaker 2 (34m 45s): Yeah, exactly. I’m on it to me. And you

Speaker 3 (34m 48s): Were actually really good.

Speaker 2 (34m 51s): So that is definitely the biggest project for webcam. Startup is going to be getting to know people in the industry, more including site owners, Cypress brokers, performers, anything like that. So if you want to be interviewed, you know, reach out to us, check that out, but basically webcam start-up. Our big plans are to evolve with the industry and we are looking forward to the next year, seeing what happens, what comes out of the pandemic once in-person events start again.

So I’m just looking forward to it. I’m going to have to start like another webinar or something because I do that all the time. I just love product.

Speaker 1 (35m 31s): Yeah. Well, I can tell you don’t like sleep. So it’s, it seems we share a passion dogs and you told me you have six and you beat me. We only have four. We were thinking about adopting a puppy, but we were worried about what it was going to do for our old guy. Who’s on the sofa near me right now. So how do your pups and Richard, my

Speaker 2 (35m 54s): Pups enrich my life in so many ways. I mean, I don’t have hobbies outside of work. So they’re the only thing really that can pull me away from the computer. When one other cute little faces comes up next to my chair and it’s like, all right, let’s go play fetch. You know, I can’t say no to that. So they, they get me out of my, my little cave in my computer room and get me to go outside. And I got quite a few of them through fostering. Yeah. Which has also been just an excellent experience.

Seeing one of my dogs in particular, he was thrown from a vehicle who had yeah. Full body of road rash. He was 40 pounds and he was not supposed to be seeing him grow and become healthy was just so wonderful. And just the love that they give and the trust that they gained back over time is awesome.

Speaker 1 (36m 49s): Yeah. It’s wonderful. Yeah. We’ve got three rescues and a Pekinese, but we won’t talk about that. Thanks. Thank you to my wife. So besides the dogs, what do you like to do in your spare time? I do quite

Speaker 2 (37m 2s): A bit of writing. I am a published author outside of the porn world. I do mostly poetry. I’ve entered quite a few poetry contests and placed in a few. So yeah, that’s my main gig besides this. I just bought a house actually. So my most recent thing is like living in home Depot and doing home projects.

Speaker 1 (37m 26s): Oh, that’s, that’s, that’s funny. Well, Hey, airy. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adults at broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon. Of course.

Speaker 2 (37m 37s): Thank you so much for having me

Speaker 1 (37m 40s): Again. It’s a pleasure to have you. My broker tip today is part six of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, here’s more information on what to give to a potential buyer. How well is your content been protected from piracy and what steps have you taken to protect your content? Are you using a piracy down or monitoring service? These are important facts to know what promotional tools do you offer to your affiliates? The more tools you offer, the more successful your affiliates will be.

What’s your traffic breakdown by country tier one countries like the USA, Canada, the UK, Germany and Australia are the most preferred add in anything else that will add value to the sale of your property that you can think of such as what custom scripts do you use? What content management system software is on your site. Do you use billing or affiliate software like gnats? What is your retention rate? How you retain your members is of the utmost importance. How many joins and rebuilds do you have per day?

Do you buy advertising? And if so, what kind can your content make more money in the DVD or VOD markets? Or have you already taken advantage of this opportunity? How much did you spend a producer by the content that’s on your site? What do you believe the content is worth now what’s special or different about your site? How is it unique? Make sure and include a list of all of the websites you’re selling. And in addition to any domains that come along with the sale, is there anything that adds value to the sale, provide them with any additional information upon request before giving a buyer, any information had them sign a non-disclosure agreement.

If you use a broker, the NDA will be provided for you. Good brokers like, oh, I don’t know. Adult site broker have a large resource of potential buyers that are looking for properties just like yours. And they know how to deal with potential buyers. They’ll also negotiate the terms of the sale, such as price and any payment terms before closing the sale, find a good escrow service to make sure that both the buyer and the seller are protected. We have those resources. Of course, we’ll talk about this subject more next week.

And next week we’ll be talking to Reba Rocket from Takedown Piracy.

Speaker 0 (40m 5s): And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank my guest, Aerie Saunders of Webcam Startup. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Maria of Best Studios.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker. Actually our property the week this week is a reminder that we always have some private listings available. In addition to what you see on our website and in our newsletters right now, we have some dating sites pay sites and a cam site available.

We often have other types of sites as well. In these cases, the owner of the site is usually expressing the utmost care to make sure that the identity of their site or company doesn’t get out for a variety of reasons. These are also generally larger listings with big revenues. If you’re interested in finding out more about our private listings, please complete our buyer’s NDA on our website and contact us to see if you qualify now, time for this week’s interview. My guest today on adult side, broker tuck is Maria Poro, Geena C O O best studios.

I hope I didn’t budge your name too bad, Maria. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 26s): Thank you for having me as a guest. And yes, my name is correct. So no problem.

Speaker 1 (2m 30s): Oh, good. I did good. That’s that’s fantastic. All right. So now we’ll tell everyone about you. Maria has built an impressive 15 year career in the live cam industry. She knows from experience what it means to be a top life cam model trainer and studio manager. She created and developed the model management concept, which aims to enhance performers, personalities, and objectives for achieving sustainable wellbeing of models. And over time, she’s become one of the industry’s ambassadors.

She’s been recognized with a series of awards, such as best cam industry ambassador by why not best industry representative by the Lal expo, the live cam awards and the AWS summit. Best studios is one of the leading live cam studios in the world. They’ve been in the market for over 20 years and received more than 60 awards for business excellence. Best studios motto, be the best or be the rest represents the company. Vision.

Best studios is recognized for professionalism, innovation and dedication towards continuous development of all models. The studio’s reputation is established following the experiences of thousands of models and the experience team, which has been actively involved in the business development and overall market progress by constantly challenging the status quo in 2020, the studio successfully launched the largest business expansion project in their history.

Investors were quick off the mark to show their interest in best studios franchises with three new exclusive studios opening in the first six months with others in various stages of development, both in Romania and other countries as well. So, Maria, tell me about your career. What made you choose the live cam industry and what led you to your current?

Speaker 2 (4m 28s): Oh, I’ve become a model for the money. I know everybody’s expecting a greater answer, but if it was because of the money, I was a manager before that working for some Irish pops here in Romania, I was having a lot of money and then I didn’t have that job anymore. So I was like, looking forward to see what can I get? I went to some interviews here and they told me I’m too young, too much experience. I’m asking for too much money. And I was like looking in the newspaper and I was finding jobs and I saw an app that they were looking for webcam models in Hollywood.

So I say, let’s give it a try to see how is it. And this is how I become a model. And this is the story. And then I was working for seven years as a model because some health issues I had to stop and I’ve become a trainer, then a manager, a training manager at some point. And now I’m the operational manager of the best studios. Wow.

Speaker 1 (5m 34s): Wow. And how long did it take you to climb that ladder?

Speaker 2 (5m 39s): It wasn’t like a goal for me. I just stayed in the industry because I really like it. And I started as a trainer. I have to say that after three months I wanted to become a manager and I applied for the job and they told me it was not the time for me. And then in another three months they said, oh, we need you as a studio manager. That’s fantastic. Well obviously, and everything and everything else just came along because back then we didn’t have like training manager and I was the first one to get this position right now.

We have Carmen taking my place. And then they said, okay, we are getting bigger and bigger. We need an operational manager. So here I am. Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (6m 30s): So do you, did you have any moments when you felt overwhelmed in doing your operations job that you do now?

Speaker 2 (6m 41s): Yes. Sometimes I want to go back online. So tell me about, tell me about that. I’m like to interact a lot of well with people. And right now, most of the time I sit on my desk with my computer doing a lot of internal stuff. So when I’m overwhelmed with that, I just want to go back online or go back to training right now, yesterday I was talking with one of my colleagues is like, I’m not doing webcamming training at all.

I’m only in papers and more papers and predictions and research. So yes, I don’t have that every day.

Speaker 1 (7m 25s): I think anyone who works in the corporate world and you’re really in the corporate world now, cause you were because the company that you’re with has grown by leaps and bounds since you got there. I think anyone in the corporate world, especially someone like yourself who has climbed the ladder and got into an executive role sometimes kind of looks down and they go, eh, sometimes I kind of wish I just had the simple life again. Action. Well, well I’m sure you could still cam you’re in charge there.

Speaker 2 (7m 60s): Oh yes. I still am not allowed by my contract to do that.

Speaker 1 (8m 3s): Aw man, I would renegotiate that.

Speaker 2 (8m 9s): You’re still, oh wait. Yes. I have so much information about the, the members base that we have for the models. So that will not be fair. Almost everything about the members.

Speaker 1 (8m 23s): Yeah. I guess I could be a little bit of a problem while you’re still, you’re still a beautiful lady, so I’m sure you do well.

Speaker 2 (8m 32s): Oh, I will go online and I will say to them, I know you, I know from that model and you like that and you have a fetish on that.

Speaker 1 (8m 41s): There you go. So how do you manage a big studios, daily operations? Maybe you can explain a normal day on the office or at the office

Speaker 2 (8m 54s): To explain we have right now with all the franchise. I think we go up to 200 models, maybe more. Wow. And yeah, and we have about 100 people in the staff working for the models. So that’s a big challenge. And we have like cope, corporate structure. We have owner, we have a CEO that’s Raluca, I’m the operational manager. Then we have development developer manager and we have a franchise manager.

We have the marketing manager, the training manager. We have a lot of managers and then a lot of people working for them. So it’s hard. You have to keep up with your internal staff and then you have to keep up with the market because everything is changing so fast in this industry. So I do have to be the connection between what the industry is right now and what we need to do in the studio and follow up the owner’s vision because we are doing right now, what the owner wants and what he thought that we can do in this industry.

And right now we are doing it very well.

Speaker 1 (10m 9s): Yeah, yeah, no, you guys are certainly doing well. Do you manage the operations for the franchises as well? How are you involved in supporting these partners?

Speaker 2 (10m 22s): Oh, I managed them as the, we manage the studio. I get the same involvement both into the studio and also for the franchises, because I have to keep, keep up with the quality that we have in the studio. This was the biggest challenge that we had as a franchise. We say, okay, we can sell the franchise. That’s not a big problem, but we want to keep the quality that we have and the standards that we have here in the studio, also in the franchise. And it’s sometimes it’s very hard if we are not involved 100%, it’s not going to work because we are the only studio that we don’t encourage our models to use toys.

And we go more into communication. Yeah. And it’s very easy at some point to say, oh, I’m not making enough money. Let’s get a deal though and make more money. So we have to keep an eye on the franchise just for that. Sure,

Speaker 1 (11m 17s): Sure. How does somebody become a franchisee has to have money.

Speaker 2 (11m 25s): You have to know about the industry. You will have to stay with us for a while to see what kind of person, because yes, you can have the money, but you have to have the same mentality and the vision as we do, this is very important.

Speaker 1 (11m 42s): W how does the process work? I mean, let’s say I’m here in Thailand and I’m going, okay. I want to start a studio. Maybe Thailand is not a good example because it probably last about two days before the police broke in. But let’s see, I’m actually in a country where the stuff is legal and I want to start a studio. What’s the process.

Speaker 2 (12m 7s): The first thing is to see if it’s legal or not. Yes. How much money do you have to invest in this? How much time do you want to invest in this business? If you want to run it yourself, or you want to have someone in charge because having the studio, it’s more like a personal business. If you put someone in charge is not going to work as much as you do. And it’s a lot of human interaction with the models and then with the members.

So you have to be very involved and we will have to see in which city you want to do to see how the market is over there. If it’s okay to open a studio over there or not, it’s like going in, try to open a studio in Luxembourg people over there, they have a salary equal to what a model is earning. So you’re not going to have models over there. Right,

Speaker 1 (13m 5s): Right, right. No, you’re not going to have, and you’re not, you’re not going to have a studio here. I promise

Speaker 2 (13m 10s): You. I think we had someone telling that they want to open a studio over there and we asked them to first verify the law and then see how safe it is.

Speaker 1 (13m 23s): Let me verify. Can I verify the law for you? It’s illegal.

Speaker 2 (13m 29s): Yes. And then to see again, the, the market, if the goes over there, we’ll love to work in, in the webcam industry, where is a lot to work or they will prefer to do something else.

Speaker 1 (13m 43s): I think in Thailand, like many countries, especially Asian countries where culturally it’s not accepted. I, I think you’d have a tough time getting models to show them, to show their faces on webcams. Just to hunch.

Speaker 2 (14m 1s): Yeah. I know when I was a model, well, like the Asian market was a big market for the models. There were a lot of Asian models on the, on the site. I don’t know what happened, but they’ve lost the interest and they were not making a lot of money. And they were like willing to do everything for $1. Right.

Speaker 1 (14m 24s): Philippines. Yes. Although that’s changed with door tan, there that’s another place where it would be, let me just say it would be, people would be risking their lives, trying to do porn over there. So what do you find the most challenging about your daily job?

Speaker 2 (14m 46s): Oh, right now the numbers, but what it’s very challenging is working with people with emotions because models in the studio are not just numbers. They’re people with feelings and they interact back with members and they have also feelings. So you have to have a, a line of communication over there to explain to the model for what they have to do in this job, how to provide the burst, the best quality service that can offer to the members.

Right. So I think that’s the most challenging to explain to the models, what they have to do. And to me, to make the members understand for, to understand the models, what they are here for.

Speaker 1 (15m 37s): Sure. Sure. What do you feel is most rewarding about your job?

Speaker 2 (15m 43s): Oh, when I see people happy, when I see the stuff that it’s happy, when I see the models that they are happy, that’s the things that really encourage me. And I love my job.

Speaker 1 (15m 56s): Fantastic. Fantastic. What do you feel makes you successful at what you do that

Speaker 2 (16m 3s): I care we are. It’s not only me. It’s about the team that I work with. It’s that we, we really care for what we are doing. We are carrying from. I know it sounds like a cliche, but we are caring from the member, right. To what the sites want to, what the model wants to, what we want to give and this caring. It’s very, very important.

Speaker 1 (16m 31s): Now, what gets you excited about coming to work every day?

Speaker 2 (16m 35s): Coming to work every day. I’m not the kind of person that will love to stay home. Even if I say I will take a holiday for one month and I will go and lay in my bed and do absolutely nothing, give me today’s like that. And I will just go crazy. I don’t know what to do home. I don’t know what to do in a mall. I like to interact with people. I love working. This is the thing that I always had. I think it was an escape from home, but I really love to work.

So only the thought that I’m going back and doing what I love. Maybe if I had a job that I hated, I will not think like that, but it’s like, oh, I’m going to work. It’s I wake up. I stay in my bed and I think what I’m going to wear today, what I have to do to know what kind of shoes I need today, and then go back to the office and I’m not going to take a cup of coffee or tea. I’m just getting there on my desk, open the computer, reading the males, the messenger, and just get into action.

And I, then I see, oh, it’s almost six. O’clock

Speaker 1 (17m 48s): Well, you always look really by the way. So now I’m now I’m understanding that I think some people really don’t care how they look. I can tell you do. It’s very obvious. What do you like least about your job?

Speaker 2 (18m 1s): Hm. I don’t know what, Hmm.

Speaker 1 (18m 4s): Oh, come on. There’s gotta be something you really hate. Sometimes

Speaker 2 (18m 8s): I hate what I’m doing right now because I have to sit in front of the computer and do a lot of paperwork. This is what I don’t like. I know it’s something that we must do and it helps my job, but it’s something I really hate. It’s like being an accountant. I cannot do that in my life, but it’s what I, I don’t like, I know it’s necessarily, but if I can manage without it, I would be so happy. Hmm. You know, when

Speaker 1 (18m 37s): You first said that, I thought you were talking about the interview. So what I’m doing right now, I’m going, oh geez. She hates this.

Speaker 2 (18m 46s): I do love to talk. I like to be in the center of attention. I

Speaker 1 (18m 51s): Understand I’m a former radio guy. So I completely understand. I think that’s, that’s a good part of why I do the podcast because it’s something that’s, you know, it gets my creative juices flowing and I do enjoy what’s it like to work? I mean, I know the answer to this because I was at the same company for 21 years. I was at a radio station in the San Francisco area. What’s it like to work at the same company for 15 years.

Speaker 2 (19m 15s): Oh, it’s great. It’s great. When you see to grow. Yeah. If you like go to a big company right now, it’s not going to grow. So it’s going to feel the same. But when you saw that you started in a small studio and you open a new studio and you move around and you have more stuff and you open new departments and you just grow every day. Oh, this is it’s huge for me to realize where you’ve been like 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago.

When, where you are right now, it’s impressive. What I like to watch on the pictures from different events that we have been like summits and to see how we used to be and what we are right now. Oh, this is a great feeling. You got to feel

Speaker 1 (20m 4s): Really proud too. You’ve been a big part of it.

Speaker 2 (20m 7s): Yes I am. It’s my baby.

Speaker 1 (20m 10s): Yeah. Yeah, no, I completely understand. And you know, I, I get that also from being a website broker, because when I talk to people, they’re very proud of what they’ve built. It’s not just money for them and it’s not just, okay, I want to sell this thing. I want to get rid of it. Whatever. They’re like, well, I want to make sure the owner takes good care of it. Cause this is my baby. At least that’s the case in a lot of, and a lot of cases. So look, I completely understand that because you put a lot into what you do every day.

At least I hope you do. You know, when I’m talking to other people about other people, you and I do. And, and you’d like to hope that everyone feels that way. Unfortunately, not everyone does, but a lot of my clients do, which is a good thing. So what makes best studios different? You know, this is a very highly competitive market, the studio business, especially in Romania, but what, what makes you guys different and what makes you better?

Speaker 2 (21m 8s): Oh, they have made,

Speaker 1 (21m 10s): Right? I know you’re not joking. And it’s true.

Speaker 2 (21m 15s): The vision that we had, we started as a, as a studio. And then at some point the owner, because it’s all about the owner. The owner said, look, I wanna make the models happy. It’s like, yes, they come to work. They make a lot of money. But at the end of the day, they are not happy. They will say, oh, I will give up this job. I don’t want to do it anymore. I have enough money because I’m not happy with what I’m doing. Right. And I said, okay, why you are not happy?

And it was a huge thing for me to realize that I was teaching them how to be a good model. But I was never thinking about their happiness because I was a happy model. I was choosing to do this yes. For the money, but I was not starving or anything. It was just a good job. And then we realized that they are not feeling happy. They are not feeling happy because they are not able to show their humanity in front of the camera.

They will just be like sex toys. Remember they don’t want to talk too much with us. They ask us to get naked very fast. They, we are using a lot of toys. So I’m feeling bad when I leave my work, because of all the words that the member are saying to us and was like, yeah, but I was not feeling like this. And the winner was like, we don’t want to have this with the models. We want to have happy models, how we can make happy models. I said, okay, let’s check off everything that they don’t like about this job.

And to see if we can have a good product in the end said, okay, we lose the deal dose. We dress up the models. We go to a better English. Let’s see what is happening. And we got that product and the members were very happy and say, oh, I was looking for this. And I never thought I’m going to see it on a web camel site. Right. And we realized that members do need that because members are men and they then need only sex.

They need interaction more than sex. Right? Some of them, they need only sex. And there they have, they only have the money to pay for the sex, but others, they have the money to pay for interaction, socialize with the model to talk with the model, to have a over here, we’ll say, oh, this is a good idea. Let’s do this. And we saw that we have happy customers, the members happy models in the studio and people who were happy to come and work with us in the stuff we explained the interview, what the trainer has to do.

It’s like, oh, I only thought that I can show her how to go Doggystyle and slap her ass. It’s not, this is not in the industry. It’s something that we don’t do. You have to teach the models how to be happy. Right? Right. Yeah. We don’t have trainers. We have coaches. They coach them how to be happy with their self to have goals in their life. And that not everything is about the money.

It’s about giving something back and then going to get rewarded.

Speaker 1 (24m 42s): It sounds like the coaches are as much life coaches as they are, as they are.

Speaker 2 (24m 49s): Yep. They are life coaches. They are not about that. We sit with the model. It’s what makes you happy? Yeah. I don’t know. Okay. Let’s try to figure out what makes you happy right now. What is going to make you happy in the long term? And we’re going to work on that. It’s not about work. It’s not about how much money you make at the end of the day, because a happy person will always make money.

Speaker 1 (25m 15s): Yeah. And, and the customers are certainly going to spend a lot more if they, if they’re. Yes, that’s true. I mean, one goes with the other, so how would you describe the live cam industry from 15 years ago? And what are your thoughts on the industry today? It

Speaker 2 (25m 35s): Has changed a lot. It was small. Now it’s very big and I’m very competitive. We have so many brilliant people inside the industry. I think 15 years ago was like, we didn’t know each other so better right now. We are like a family. Right. It’s so nice to see when you go to an event and you just wish to meet people and go and party with them and do more business. And you see people growing into this industry and doing something new that maybe like 15 years ago was not available.

And someone came up with an idea and said, everybody was like, oh, that person is crazy. And right now it’s very successful in what it’s doing. Yeah. So I do like the industry and what it’s become.

Speaker 1 (26m 25s): And it’s really, it’s really matured. Yes. So how has the company and the team changed since you joined? Oh,

Speaker 2 (26m 34s): The company. I think the team changed a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot because some people cannot keep up what we are doing. So we only have people that they have the same mentality as we do. Right. So it has changed a lot, but the vision and what we believe in it. Hasn’t yeah.

Speaker 1 (26m 58s): Which were your favorite and least favorite moments of your career?

Speaker 2 (27m 3s): Hmm, my favorite one. It was when I first got my first award, it was yes. For the best industry representative. It was like, wow,

Speaker 1 (27m 16s): You got more than one. Which, which award

Speaker 2 (27m 17s): Was it? Yes. I have four. The first one was why not the words. Okay. And, oh, I was so happy about it. The first one that we had, like for the best studio, it was the recognition for what we done. Nice. And then when I was able to get a model to be top one on incomes, on live, Jasmine, that was a big goal for me.

And when we were able to do that with my first model, I was crying.

Speaker 1 (27m 56s): That’s nice

Speaker 2 (27m 57s): Because it’s easy to do it on you. When you work on yourself, it’s very hard to do it with someone else. And that was a huge moment. And what I, what I didn’t like, it’s not what I didn’t, it’s what I don’t like when people say that webcam models are stupid, that’s true or not

Speaker 1 (28m 22s): True in a lot of cases.

Speaker 2 (28m 25s): Yes. And this is the thing like, oh, what a webcam model can do get naked, then that’s all. Yeah. And it’s like, you don’t know the hard work behind it.

Speaker 1 (28m 34s): Yeah. It’s a tough, it’s a tough job.

Speaker 2 (28m 38s): Yes. And this is what I, I really don’t like when people look at models like that, it’s something that I incur every day and it’s very hard and it feels like I want to go outside and scream. This is not true. Let me explain to them,

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): Well, you see the people who say that are ignorant. So you know that stupidity in itself. So what do you want? And there’s a lot of sexism mixed in there as well, which is also stupidity. What do you want to achieve next in your career now? Would you consider this, your dream job? Or are you thinking about the next,

Speaker 2 (29m 19s): No, this is my dream job. I don’t see myself doing something else. Outside the industry. I would love to work in the industry, work with best studios and grew up. I don’t know what the next step will be, because if you asked me about three years ago about the franchise, I would say, oh, this is not for us. It’s not something that we want right now. Very happy with it.

Speaker 1 (29m 42s): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you know another question, you mentioned the franchises. Now, there are others that offer franchises. Why would somebody take a best studios franchise as opposed to brand X?

Speaker 2 (29m 58s): I dunno. It’s about the, I wouldn’t say, oh, let’s sell this franchise, but it’s about the feeling. When you want to open a business, you will have to, you have to be able to choose, go and talk with franchise ex, go in franchise that, and then go to the best studios and see how you feel inside it. Because we are not the franchise for everyone. We are a franchise for someone that has the same beliefs as we do.

Yeah. So if they want to choose us, it’s because they want to get involved into something together with us and to, to have the same beliefs as we do. Yes. You’re gonna make money less, more. Sure. But the difference is to invest in something that you like and work with the people that you like, because you’re going to interact with us a lot. Even don’t like us, it’s not going to go okay for you.

Speaker 1 (31m 1s): No, no. Well like any like any business, like any job.

Speaker 2 (31m 7s): Yes. It’s the same thing that I’m always telling the models. When they come to an interview, go to other interviews, talk with other people, see, see, where are you going to feel better? Yeah. Because you’re going to do this for a long time. You’re going to buy a franchise. It’s not going to be for six months. It’s going to be for life. So you have to enjoy it because you have this opportunity to choose. Right. And when you’re going to choose us, make sure you do it for the, for the right.

I dunno how to say not motives. Yeah. Maybe for the right reasons, but for the right feeling. Right.

Speaker 1 (31m 46s): Right. And really sounds like what you’re trying to establish. There’s kind of like, like a family type atmosphere.

Speaker 2 (31m 54s): It’s not family because family, you cannot choose. It’s about friends, team, a family. It’s something that you get, you stuck with it with your brothers and mothers and you cannot change it. But friends and the team, you can choose it. Yep.

Speaker 1 (32m 14s): Now what qualities does someone need to succeed as a manager in this industry

Speaker 2 (32m 20s): To love the industry. And that’s all everything else you can learn, but you cannot teach someone to love something. It’s a different kind of industry. But if you don’t love the industry, you’re not going to be able to be a good manager. You have to love the industry. You have to love the people that you work with. So understand that it’s very different, but you have to love the industry. If you don’t do that, you’re not going to succeed.

Speaker 1 (32m 50s): Okay. Now, do you think any woman can be suited for a career in the live cam industry? Or if not, what kind of woman has the best chance to succeed?

Speaker 2 (33m 2s): Not anyone can be a webcam model. Not anyone can work in this industry. It’s like not everyone can be a teacher. Yeah. I will be a bad teacher. I will kill the kids. My students. Yes. It’s very different. What do you need? You don’t have to be beautiful. You have to be smart enough to understand that you can grow and you need to grow and develop yourself, hardworking people that they are interested in about develop their self more and more every day.

This is what you need. We can make you beautiful in two hours. That’s not the problem. You can learn English. That’s not the problem. Right. But you have to believe in yourself and to have this, to be open to the idea of develop yourself.

Speaker 1 (34m 4s): Hmm. And doesn’t, doesn’t being in this industry, make a lot of women believe in themselves.

Speaker 2 (34m 10s): They do. They understand they can do anything in their life. And it’s because of the interaction that they have with the members. It’s about what they are learning. Because talking with different people, from different cultures, with different jobs, you get a lot of information. Something that you cannot have it from books, right? Because you’re not going to open a law book, but you’re going to talk with a lawyer and he’s going to talk to you about his life and daily things that they are doing.

And you’re going to learn from it.

Speaker 1 (34m 46s): And he’s going to charge you $500 an hour. Do you have any advice for other women who want to build a career in the webcam industry? It, wait, I think that’s, I think that’s taken. I think you’re going to get sued. I think you’re going to get sued by Nike.

Speaker 2 (35m 8s): Yeah. But that’s a Moto in leasing. This is an advice don’t ever think twice. Do what you’re feeling right now. Right. Then what you think it’s best for you right now? You don’t know what is going to happen tomorrow. Right. But if you want to do something today, just do it. Don’t wait. Don’t think twice. Because when you think twice, you’re going to find bad things. Good things. Just go with your instinct. You

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): Can talk yourself out of good ideas. Can’t you think back to when you first got started as a model. Okay. Now, what do you wish you’d known when you first started that? You know, now everything

Speaker 2 (35m 52s): About the members know to understand what kind of service I can provide as a webcam model, because I thought it was about selling sex, selling an image, not selling your heart. And this is about selling what you can give from inside you, not what you can give with your body.

And to understand that member are more sensitive than women. They need more compliments that we need as a woman. It’s something that I realized. I think after four years, when I told one of my members that he was looking good in a suit and he was blushing, and I said, why are you blushing? And he told me, you know, no one told me that you look handsome and really believe it.

It’s like that and said, Nope, you as a woman, you hear that every day, if you have a new dress and you go meet your friends or go to the office, everyone is going to say, oh, you look so nice in that dress. Even if it’s true or not, but you get a lot of compliments, right. As a man, if you get the new shirt, no one is going to say, oh, you look so nice in that new shirt. That

Speaker 1 (37m 23s): Is, so that is so true.

Speaker 2 (37m 25s): Yeah. It was like, yeah, that is true. And he was like, I need compliments. I love getting compliments. I don’t get it enough. I wish I was a girl. I’m going to make compliments. And I start doing that with my members. And they were like, surprise. Like, you know, I, haven’t got a compliment in a very, very long time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37m 45s): Yeah. Well, if he wants to be a girl, he, he just needs to come out here. It’s pretty cheap to get the change. How, how would you describe your, your life work balance? Oh, I don’t have a balance

Speaker 2 (38m 1s): When people say they can manage a career and a family life. That’s not true because when I’m home with my husband, I want to have more time to spend with him. When I’m at work, I need more time to spend at work. So again, the, the day I don’t have a job from nine till six, I go, I get later to the office because I want to spend more time with my husband in the morning, but I’m staying longer at the office.

And sometimes I get work back home. So it’s not that bad. So it’s like, you got

Speaker 1 (38m 38s): A little bit, it’s a bit of a balance there. You know? You said, you said you, you said you, well, you said you spend time in the morning with your husband. So

Speaker 2 (38m 47s): Yes, but I don’t spend time with my daughter. I just become a mom. And right now I am not keeping my daughter with me there with my year with my mum, mum, we’re in LA, she’s taking care of the baby. Got it. Because I don’t have time for the family. And I do realize, but I’m giving her the best opportunity that she can have it right now. But I cannot say, oh, I’m happy back home.

And I’m happy at work. And no, when I have to travel with work, I wish I was home. When, I mean holiday with my family. I’m thinking about work that I don’t have time to do that. And that, and that’s not the balance. It’s something that you have to be grateful with what you have and not think about that. I don’t have that

Speaker 1 (39m 38s): Well, something to work towards, I guess. So I, so I usually ask people what they do in their free time. But I, I won’t ask you that question.

Speaker 2 (39m 49s): Oh, I’m doing a lot of, a lot of things in my free time. Sometimes I’m doing work.

Speaker 1 (39m 56s): I was afraid. I was afraid that was going to be the answer.

Speaker 2 (40m 1s): And I also take time for my free time to travel, to do some things. When I want to keep away from work, I just don’t have the internet. And I have time for myself. So I’m not doing as much as I wanted to do. Yeah. There are lots of things that I’ve give up, but not all for work. Right. But for myself, I go home and I watch movies because one of my favorite things, I know reading a lot of books.

I’m meeting with friends. Yeah. Try to do fun stuff. Fun stuff for my age. Because if you asked me when I was 21, I was like, Bobby, right now, it’s not the bulk party. Tell me about it. I’m 63 so

Speaker 1 (40m 52s): I can play. I come. I completely understand. So there’s some balance there

Speaker 2 (41m 1s): Depends on the perspective. If you ask a mom. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41m 5s): Oh definitely.

Speaker 2 (41m 7s): She’s not spending enough time with their family. If you ask them, I get that. I get that some day. We’ll see. You’re not staying enough at work. So,

Speaker 1 (41m 18s): Ah, the life, the life of a female executive with a family, it’s not an easy thing.

Speaker 2 (41m 23s): Oh, it’s not these. Even for that, I think this is something that we say, oh, mom, has it harder? No. Did that, that had the same feeling, the same needs. They feel bad. It’s only that we look at them from a different perspective. Sure,

Speaker 1 (41m 40s): Sure. How much do you miss? The

Speaker 2 (41m 44s): A lot than not. I miss traveling. I miss meeting with the people when I was at the shows, I was thinking, oh, I do have to be here for another day. Wish I could go back to work. I have so many things to do. And right now I miss not the parties, the mingling with the people. I miss the hugs. Yes. And to see people and see what everyone was doing. So what I really miss.


Speaker 1 (42m 15s): Yeah. Because that to me is family. That is that’s our adopted family. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Hey Maria, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult site, broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (42m 34s): Thank you so much for having me. We can do this anytime you want. Okay. Tomorrow let’s do it tomorrow. I have time. I will make time for sure.

Speaker 1 (42m 45s): Thank you. My broker tip today is part five of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, when you decide to sell your website, make sure you have the following information available for potential buyers, detailed information about your company, your website, and any other aspect of your operation that a potential buyer may want to find out about. This should include for a pay site, a detailed inventory of your content. Number of images and number of videos. How much of it is exclusive and how much is non-exclusive financial information for at least the last three years.

If your company is that old, this should include sales reports, profit and loss statements and billing reports. Get all that information organized in a legible format that a good broker can use to sell your property. If you decide to sell it yourself, organize a list of potential buyers and start the process of contacting them. Be realistic about what your company is worth in today’s market. The kiss of death is overpricing your property. Is there anything a potential buyer needs to know such as well?

Are you being sued? Do you have any substantial debts or anything else like that? Don’t let these things be a surprise to a potential buyer. They’ll either find out before the sale and not buy or they’ll find out after the sale. And you’ll have another lawsuit on your hands, disclose everything. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Aree of Webcam Startup.

Speaker 0 (44m 18s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Maria of Best Studios. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Andy Wullmer of Traffic Partner.

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Now let’s feature our property the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages. Google has placed the websites in good search positions.

There are over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There are also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into new SEO techniques and by traffic, this top of the line tube network is available for only $595,000. Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today on adult site, broker talk is Andy warmer, also known as the traffic captain of traffic partner.

Andy, thanks for being with us today on adult site broker talk, oh my God. It’s been way too long, my friend way too long. Now I’ll tell everybody about you. Andy is a veteran of the industry for over 20 years. He was the founder of sex, goes mobile before selling it to the company. He now works with traffic partner and he works with many verticals from porn to online retail, mobile offers, dating and live camps.

He worked as a model agent before he started brokering traffic. His nickname, as I mentioned is the traffic captain because he’s recognized as a strong leader in this industry. Now, Andy is the CEO of mobile for traffic partner with brands like fuck book, sex goes mobile. That sounds familiar. Web billing, grand slam media dating partner, cam partner, digital performance and more traffic has been in business since 1997 and offers direct advertisers, casual and mainstream dating products.

As well as community entertainment systems apps, mobile web and desktop versions are available in 50 plus countries. They own all of their own products or a full exclusivity. They’re constantly searching for premium quality, mobile and desktop traffic from publishers and networks concerning their own direct top. Performing dating and community offers their business models are CPL, rev share PPS, CPM, or CPC. That’s allowing promoting their products via affiliate display, push, email marketing, and more VIP partners will be assigned to a dedicated account manager that will not only monitor campaigns, but support you in optimizing your campaigns for the highest results and sorry, Andy.

That’s all the time we have today now. Very long introduction, right? My friend, I had anything for you and Michael. Okay. So you guys do a large percentage of your work within the dating industry. Now what’s the current state of affairs with dating

Speaker 1 (4m 41s): Traffic. The point is the three very different markets. And it’s the, like you said, it’s the adored dating, the casual dating and the mainstream dating. So I always say like they do dating is only the, that you have a one night stand find somebody who want fast text. Right? So go on that. Then the casual one is you’re looking for a relationship, but you’re not sure. And you only want to play around. And then the mainstream one is you want to find somebody to live together or even do it with a marriage.

And so these markets are totally different and marketing and odd, so different where you get the traffic from. And the good thing is that we have all three. So everybody who have traffic, we can find the right product for him. And of course the growing of the main stream was very high during the, the Corona virus. Because if you only want to go on a sex date, it’s difficult because right now it’s difficult to meet people

Speaker 0 (5m 48s): Or dangerous

Speaker 1 (5m 49s): Or dangerous. And you don’t, you don’t have a full body condom perhaps with the subsequent, you know, so, but the, the mainstream dating was growing extremely because you know, there’s a lot of chatting before you really need people. So everybody was working out on their profile to have more time to write more about them. They uploaded more picture. There’s a lot of more chat.

And as the model in our apps, my dates and I dates, it’s like, people pay us per message. It’s like, you go on Facebook and you have to pay like a little amount for every message. And that was for us from the profit side, super, and also for our affiliates, they made a lot of more money out of the traffic because it’s not a subscription model. It’s an open the message payment model. And that was for us the super success.

Okay. Okay. Now how

Speaker 0 (6m 52s): Unique is it for a company to have all three types of data?

Speaker 1 (6m 57s): Well, normally the, when I started with this, the way I direct the only the mainstream ones and the adult ones, so there was a big difference. They were not working together. Even. I remember there were shows like 2005 and 2010, where were these posts? People not even talk with it. Okay. And then there was the breakthrough was the casual dating. What was attractive for webmasters, which were sending traffic in both directions.

So it started that the DeWalt mainstream were fighting for the same traffic from the, from the same affiliates. I think one big through breakthrough was also when we had the house of slim party on the internet. That was 2015. And there was the internet in the same time as the affiliate summit west. So there was a mainstream show and an adult show at the same time in Las Vegas. And of course we are doing guys no better to rock.

So we had DMX, unfortunately he died last Friday, but we had DMX and Cypress hill on stage have made a big party. And then all this mainstream people come to me and ah, and me, because grandson, media and sex was Bubba. We will, we were the sponsors or together with <inaudible>. I then all this mainstream guys came over to, oh, I heard you have a party. You kind of have an entrance and stuff like this. So that was a nice breakthrough between this both different markets.

And after it, the, I know, I remember when we had the first booth at the mainstream show, like the affiliate summit east in New York, we didn’t put six, goes mobile. We were pro. So we find a new name, you know? So, and then you saw also like the guys from bitter strawberry coming there and more and more doing people who went over to the, this mainstream shows.

And then we will, of course was important that we developed also our mainstream products. So we started to go into that market, but the main streamers, they never just developed sex products. So we were the pirates catching our money in bear markets. And that was a big advantage. Sure.

Speaker 0 (9m 20s): And now at all of the affiliate shows, not just affiliate summit, but all of the affiliate shows, it’s gotta be 30, 35% adult people.

Speaker 1 (9m 30s): Yeah.

Speaker 0 (9m 30s): For sure. By the way, did you ever see those, those Budweiser commercials with spuds McKenzie? The party animal? Nope. Yeah. You are German, aren’t you? Well, they had this dog and they called him spuds Mackenzie. And they would do all these commercials where he’s in all these play, all these luxurious places with women all around and they say, spuds, Mackenzie, the party animal. Now Andy Wolf, Andy Woolmer is the party animal. Come on, man. Okay. Yeah. We

Speaker 1 (9m 58s): It’s folks that German thing, we, we, we work hard, but we probably have to. Yes. We

Speaker 0 (10m 4s): Knew as October Fest will be a, definitely an example of that. So how profitable is it to buy and sell dating traffic using your company traffic partner?

Speaker 1 (10m 19s): It’s, it’s totally depends on the source. You know, we do a lot of testing and we have a business intelligence members in our group. They check all the traffic. If it looks like blood traffic, because on CPR, you have a lot of people that want to say, send you book traffic. They only need to put an email in. So we lose a lot of times money when we buy traffic on CPL from strange sources. But we are always willing to test, test, test that we work together with a lot of performance networks.

They have their affiliates. And so we got the traffic through them and then we have still classical affiliates and webmasters sending directly to us. And of course you see always when somebody have good traffic, you want to sell it on rev share because he knows, he knows this traffic is converting and he wants to make long term money. And CPL is always a little bit more dangerous because there’s a lot of products, especially from Pakistan, from India, Philippines, and countries like this, they think, oh, they are so stupid.

They don’t see when I put fake emails, but we catch them always and we don’t pay them out. So don’t even try it.

Speaker 0 (11m 36s): So where bot traffic was once a problem, the more traffic people like talk to, and again, you know, traffic has is not my game. Okay. And I broke her, I broke her websites, but I learned from the people I talked to and what I’m hearing more and more is bot traffic isn’t as much of a problem because of all of the analytics you have,

Speaker 1 (11m 55s): You have course we have analytics, but they still try. You know, if you have a CPA model, that means people only need to put their email in. And then you got paid. It’s like a lead pipe cost per lead. And of course, if the email looks good at the, at the fraud us, the fraud has, don’t use old school bots where you see directly VPN IP or something, the, the cheapest become better. So you need to be better on the protection of your system.

So it’s, it’s like a game,

Speaker 2 (12m 27s): But you can verify email

Speaker 0 (12m 28s): Addresses. Right? I mean, there’s, there’s a, I mean, I know I have I’ve, I’ve, I’ve gone in verified my lists over and over to make sure they’re scrubbed. Don’t you guys use those, those tools.

Speaker 1 (12m 40s): Oh, of course. Yeah. But they, they have real, GBN mostly, they have most of the Gmail, real Gmail accounts. And they even, they even answer the image, you know, the cost of the cost of employees in India, Pakistan. And some, if you pay somebody, if you pay somebody a hundred dollars a month and do nothing else, then subscribe to different dating sites through different performance. But he even opened the email, he confirmed the email, he puts his name and even put fake pictures in it.

So, you know, it’s not the classical, but of course, with all the technology bot traffic, you can see very fast detect very fast. But if, if you have this human factor and it’s not for me, okay. Perhaps the definition of bot is wrong. It’s like frogs, traffic. It’s not what traffic it’s fraud.

Speaker 0 (13m 31s): Well, no. Have you, don’t you, do you guys block any countries?

Speaker 1 (13m 36s): Generally we don’t block. But if we see, if we see directly that is somebody from Pakistan, especially to India, we are very careful. And we add, we pay out 30 days net. So we have at least some time to see if all this leads you brought in, you know, the classical thing is somebody bring a thousand leads. Nobody of them spent any money in the system, you know, it’s it’s fraught. Sure, sure.


Speaker 0 (14m 7s): Now, obviously we’ve been in a pandemic for over a year now. How has that influenced your business?

Speaker 1 (14m 13s): Yeah. Like I told you before, for our message based and mainstream products, it was very positive for our fast six dating side. They’re more or less stable because people keep in contact. But yeah, the growing wasn’t the mainstream, because a lot of people, they never use the, this dating before because they went into bars or restaurants or they, you know, there were many other places to do dating, but in the pandemic they have to use dating sites. So it was a big, big growth for all dating companies.


Speaker 0 (14m 45s): Now how about your life? How has the virus impacted you personally?

Speaker 1 (14m 50s): The first moment I was super angry about this because I’m not such afraid to vote. I was, you know, I lived in countries like Mexico and Venezuela. I went to the juggler desk a lot. So a lot of virus and parasites and you know, I’m not so afraid of this. And even when I see back when this started, and then it was like December, December in China, December 19, it started in China. And I was in Bangkok after I was in Taiwan.

Then I was in Manila. Then I was in Palau islands. Then January, I was back in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vegas. Yup. Yup. And then in February, February, March, I was over, even in Columbia, I went always flights from east to west. And then the last show was the, the part of that one. And I came home and then, you know, normally I go swimming every, every, every week I go three, four times swimming. He had the public pool and one Sunday, 15 of mine, I remember 15 of match, 2020.

I went Sunday morning to my swim. I said, no, we are closed because of growth that I was like, fuck what the fuck? It’s yeah,

Speaker 0 (16m 5s): Yeah. That I don’t get that I don’t get, do they, do they really think it’s a chlorine and a pool? The Corona virus is going to even be in

Speaker 1 (16m 12s): The water. Yeah. Whatever. So then my next show, I had a show in Italy was canceled. And then my show in Israel was canceled at the show in Moscow and Kiev, all cancer. That was April and may. So I was really angry because I, you know, if you have the rhythm to go every month to one or two shows and I’m staying at home and what I was like, yeah, staying at home, what you do here, it was really angry. But then I changed to enjoying it.

So it was a nice spring last year. So I discovered a lot of nice areas here around my hometown. I cleaned up my house. I renovated some stuff. So becoming, becoming normal with it.

Speaker 0 (16m 57s): That’s good. Well, for a guy that goes to, what do you do? Tell me before we started recording to about 25 shows a year, you probably, usually don’t remember what your home looks

Speaker 1 (17m 6s): Like. Wait, it’s like I’m 200, 200 days at home and 160 on travel. Something like that.

Speaker 0 (17m 15s): She’s better you than me. Okay. Cryptocurrencies have gone pretty nuts. Now, while we’re recording this, we’ve seen record run-ups for Bitcoin ether and other cryptocurrencies. What impact does that have on your business?

Speaker 1 (17m 30s): On the business? Not too much because the, the, the quantity of people that have Bitcoins and want to pay with this, it’s too small when you see it on the worldwide population. But for me privately, I was very skeptical. When I heard first time, it was also the next 2014 and then Vegas. And I was like, I know this, this is like a big scam. And so, and then I, then I also saw the news.

It was always something was criminal, criminal activities and stuff like this. But after the drop and then 2019, I bought some, some of these cryptocurrencies only to have them. You know, like if you do investment, you have a real estate, you have stock exchange, you have some gold. So I wanted to have some cryptos on my stock. And of course they develop very nice, but I’m still it’s. I have still the feeling. It’s like a casino, you know, because it’s, it’s the same with real money, you know, here it says a Bitcoin is like 50,000 or $55,000.

Yes. Yes.

Speaker 0 (18m 45s): As we, as we tape right now, 55, 6, 3, 8, I’m looking at my desktop. Oh, three, seven. It went down

Speaker 1 (18m 54s): Three six. Bye it’s. It’s all about the trust of people at something, because of course, a hundred dollars, a hundred dollar bill is also only a piece of paper if you don’t trust. And of course through the Corona crisis or governments in the world are printing money. Like hell. And if I, if I see a president Biden said, yeah, $1 trillion or something like this is the bank. And you say, okay, so that you see also on the stock exchange market, we had the biggest crisis of the, the last 50 years and, and all the stock exchanges go up new record, new, regular new record.

This, this is the reason because the governments are pumping so much money into the, to the market. And I think $100 is not $100 anymore. It’s only because people still trust that’s the underdog. So it’s not bad to have some cryptocurrencies in your portfolio. I would not say, go, go for it for the full amount. But it’s a very interesting project. Also. I like there’s some other cryptocurrencies, they are brand new and then even better.

For example, there’s one, I like Yokota the technology behind it’s very way, way better than a Bitcoin, but it’s not so known. So when people need to get trust, but I think cryptocurrencies will be something for the future, but who is the winner? I don’t know Bitcoin was the first, but normally the first is not the winner. You see, there was my space and then there was Facebook and then you see there was Yahoo, but then there was Google. So we will see what it comes to.

But if you somebody over put some money in cryptocurrencies and split it up on the top 10, I would say, Hmm,

Speaker 0 (20m 53s): Interesting theory. I will look at that. I, right now I’m just an ether and I’m pretty happy with what’s happened, but I’m holding. I’m just holding. In fact, I’m like, I might double down. Yup, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I sold, I sold Bitcoin when it was, I thought at its peak at 19,000. Well, and then I invested in a friend of mine, said a few mutual friend of ours.

We were talking about before the, this thing said, oh, there’s this new Russian cryptocurrency Putin’s behind it. It’s going to be big. So I took all my Bitcoin money and S and some more and put it in this thing. And it’s vaporized just vaporized. You know, I’m going to be a millionaire anyway. So, well,

Speaker 1 (21m 46s): There’s, there’s one thing. If you buy a cryptocurrency, don’t look at the value right now. Look for the people who are behind and what is the extra value that the coin brings. Right. And why Bitcoin Bitcoin is going up like this because when companies like PayPal or visa cards and other, they say, okay, we will use it. If there’s the use, then a value comes into it. Yeah. Well,

Speaker 0 (22m 13s): The Elon Musk is behind Dodge coin, man. Okay. Okay. I think, I think we’re gonna see the big short on that one pretty soon a big part of what you do. And what many of us do is go to the events as I talked about, and you talked about we not only display, but we network, we do business with a virus. All of that has been on hold. Now, there are virtual shows. Of course, it’s not the same. How has the lack of shows affected your business?

Speaker 1 (22m 45s): It’s difficult to find new people. You know, we have our stable network. We are a long time in the business. So for us, the influence, we see that we have less new, interesting affiliates. Of course we can find them through other media. So, so on the show, you can need, you can buy Google, AdSense, AdWords to find new ones. We can, we have the telegram groups, we have the Facebook groups. So there is way to find new affiliates, but the good thing on a personal choice as I’m a longtime network and this, that a friend of a friend, he shows you, you know, introductions, life introduction.

And then you sit together and you have some drinks and you have a dinner and you have a party. So this relationship is directly very strong. Instead of somebody you never saw hit you up on Skype, Hey, I have traffic and you don’t know who he is, where he comes from. So it’s for us, it’s a little bit dropped in new affiliates. But I think the worst thing is for all the new companies, startups, you start up or companies, which are not so known. It’s very difficult without shows, because I remember when I was on my first shows with sex goes mobile.

I came back and I, I had to, after 20 times more say than before they were, my first shows was, was like a really Buba for this new startup. And I think it’s very difficult for new companies right now.

Speaker 0 (24m 17s): Oh, absolutely. At least, you know, people like us are already established. So people know us and people are going to come to us for things. You know, you, you have a podcast too. You do a, a, you do a, a YouTube show and it’s, it’s, it’s very, very, very, very popular. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about that?

Speaker 1 (24m 38s): Well, it it’s came sorts of as Corona. And the first time I had time to look about all the videos. So I started a YouTube channel called the traffic captain. I make my YouTube channel. And then I was uploaded first, all my old videos from the parties, from the different it show events for my scuba diving for my advantage. So after a short time, I had more than 80, 90 videos up there. And I saw that I got one. Then I saw, I had 1000 subscribers, 2000 subscribers.

So now I have, now I have something like 5,700 or something like this. And then I had, I saw that other people do a lot of interviews with me. So I uploaded, I uploaded also the interviews, which they made with me. And then I started to make my own videos. So I think I have now in one year, I make like 25 30, like every two week I do an interview. And yeah, I liked this with the, with the zoom software, because I also want to see the people.

But of course, like Jason, Jason Hunt taught me, Eddie, take only the boys make your own podcast. But as I have already, so many other things to do, I stay, I I’m still the video guy I liked.

Speaker 0 (25m 57s): Yeah. Jason was, Jason was one of our first, one of our first guests on here. And he, again, he’s obviously done some work for me as well. In fact, his company’s doing SEO work for us. Now, now recently, a couple of things happened. The free speech coalition finally won their case on 2, 2, 5, 7 when the government backed out. But that kind of became a shallow victory because MasterCard came down with some strict new guidelines on user-generated content and changes all adult sites needed to make.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if before this runs and visa does the same. In fact, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, what impacts do you think this will have on the adult

Speaker 1 (26m 39s): Industry? Like I do it in this. She always find a solution. And I I’m sure there were more was cryptocurrencies. And I, I’m not sure why they already have, especially with like a big company like breathers, you know, imagine a one or two years ago they made the, they should make their own coin and then bring it to all the other dude’s sites. But of course, especially for the U S market, because U S customers always pay with credit card.

It was a big impact and Europe, not so much because people here don’t really pay with credit card. Only, only 40th, only 45% of the people have even a credit card and they pay with debit cards. And th there, there is no regulation because it’s from the direct bank so they can do, they can pay whatever they want. That cannot be a restriction. But of course, the first moment, you know, it’s always like when, when some big major players change the world, that has an impact, but the doing industry always find our, we always fight back and we find our solution.

Speaker 0 (27m 50s): We’re pretty damn resilient. And you, you already, you already took the air out of my next question, because I was going to ask you, do you think long-term cryptos?

Speaker 1 (27m 60s): Yes. Yeah, of course. Because imagine, especially in countries and countries is a, like an Africa emergency cadres or third world countries. Like they called them that there is so difficult for, for people to get a bank account. And so imagine you have everything on your mobile phone and because mobile phones, everybody has, even in the poorest country, you see people with mobile phones and then it’s easy.

You want to buy something. Okay. I sent you this amount of cryptocurrencies changing and they don’t even know banks, you know, and then why we need, why we need banks, banks. I hate, for example, when I sent money from Germany to south America, they charge, they charge me 50, let’s say, I said thousand dollars to south America. They charged me 50 bucks on my side, 50 bucks on his side and the transaction, the transaction needs five to seven business days, you know, from banks, from, from, from Germany to Bogota, it’s the two main cities, two economies.

Why they need five

Speaker 0 (29m 13s): Business, not to mention well that’s because they want to, they want to float your money. But, you know, I mean, not only that, but there’s, there’s, you know, there’s currency fees and, you know, it just gets very, you know, banks make it very expensive to do business there, robbers they should.

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): Yeah, really. And so I think cryptocurrencies, especially this will take over because people only need to transact at the moment. The problem is a lot of people don’t really know where to buy, to buy. You need a credit card or something to put some money in or WIA. So how does the people in these countries, they cannot get a Bitcoins because they don’t have a bank account, another credit card. So, but for example, I know from Thailand that there’s a lot of people, they own bars or restaurants.

You can go bring some cash money and they give you, they give you a Bitcoins for that.

Speaker 0 (30m 14s): That’s interesting that, that, I didn’t know, but that does not surprise me. And, and I think you’re going to see more retail oriented exchange, not only bars, but shops seven 11. I mean, we have a seven 11, every 10 feet here, as you probably know. So, you know, things like that. And I think banks and the financial world is petrified of crypto personally, as, as their governments, governments are petrified of it too, because they lose control.

Speaker 1 (30m 44s): We had here Germany, we had cryptocurrencies ATM where you can buy, buy in and buy out for cryptocurrencies and the German bank control system, the Baffin, they block them all. And even the, the founder of this company now it’s in prison and waiting for his case because they say he was helping two people laundering money. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s still a fight, but you know, you things, they always find their way through.

I’m sure that cryptocurrency is some of them.

Speaker 0 (31m 19s): Well, banks, banks have the governments in their pockets. Let’s face it and let and vice versa, vice versa. So it’s one, it’s one big circular thing where they want to make all the money and they don’t want anybody else to it’s. It’s the whole

Speaker 1 (31m 33s): Thing. If you see, if you see the, when there was the big bank crisis, 2008, how many billions of tax money the governments put into these bags? Sure. That that was the biggest robbery ever.

Speaker 0 (31m 48s): It was a scam. It was a scam. Let’s face it. Now our business continues to be under attack by government regulation, as well as from private companies. Like we talked about with MasterCard, of course, you porn lost their processing for awhile and X videos. As I had similar issues, what do you see our industry doing to get them off

Speaker 1 (32m 8s): Our backs? Again, I w I don’t really well.

Speaker 0 (32m 12s): The governments, the government seems to always be on our backs, like the Canadian government KV, Canadian government son, you porn’s back, you know, exit videos involved. Now, you know, obviously the media has jumped in with the New York times and all that. So w w what do you see our government doing to get them off

Speaker 1 (32m 31s): Our backs? It’s like, I live in Germany, adhere the government. And even the rules, like if you go to German, Google dot D E you will not even find the big tube sites like YouPorn read or X videos or whatever, because they are banned from the jump and Google. We have feel so strict laws. I don’t all the, all the companies which are doing really hardcore content are not in Germany. They go to Denmark, they go to Holland, they go to Switzerland, or they go to Austria.

The Germans laws for, for the <inaudible> is so discussing hot that all the door companies try to go out of this country. So I don’t know what the, the U S people in government, that’s not my game. I don’t really know.

Speaker 0 (33m 22s): Just, it’s not just the U S obviously it’s Germany, too. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 (33m 27s): This is, since, since I started in the business, the worst thing, I might my fix this pigs, because you, the dude I broke, my, my first domain was with the dot. The E was bushy. Did it? It’s like the pussy poke the in German. And I put, I put, I put a hardcore site on it and I directly got a big fine, because I put there hardcore. Then since this day, I never ever bought domain again.

Speaker 0 (33m 55s): So you’ve been in the business for a long time. And you’ve obviously done many things. What challenges have you seen in our industry since you started out over 20 or rather, I’m sorry, what changes have you seen in our industry since you started over 20

Speaker 1 (34m 10s): Years ago? Well, I was starting to sell VHS cassettes to pick video shops. Then I started, then I was selling DVDs and all Europe. Then I had my first DVD online shop. So I did e-commerce and then the mobile came out. So we sold stuff on mobile. Then they take LiveCap. You always need to adapt to a new technology. Imagine I would be still trying to say VHS and DVD to shops.

I wouldn’t already out of the business. So adopting new technologies, that’s the, that’s the, that’s the moneymaker in this industry. And of course, if you go on the content side, it becomes always more and more niche. When I, when I started the first movies we sold and produced, they were like, now it’s like, yeah, really normally sex a man and woman goes to bed, have normal sex. If you, if you shoot movies like this, now nobody wants to see it.

It’s not extreme, but niche disgusting. Some of these are like, but some niche it’s really disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, no, I

Speaker 0 (35m 25s): Was talking about just, just standard sex. Yeah. So what, what do you see ahead for our industry? If you could look into that crystal ball,

Speaker 1 (35m 37s): Yours, and if I know it, I don’t tell you, I leave a note on a podcast. You mentioned, I have a great idea. I tell it on your podcast. And then two years later, I see a new company coming out with that and I say, oh fuck. That was my idea.

Speaker 0 (35m 57s): No, but what, what direction do you see the, see the, the industry?

Speaker 1 (36m 0s): Well, I, I think that life cabin dating, these are the big groin areas, especially everything was live. We have also a platform called a mature X where we have gods can do LiveCap. They can do chatting and they can sell the content. This is this program. We have Germany since 15 years. And we, the German name was a better community, so that like amateur goods can do it.

And now we, we brought out a bunch of eggs. It’s the same system, but it’s more for international market. And you see that you see like only was only fans, these big platforms, it’s like sex, sex, going more into the social, social media style. It’s like, if people want to interact with the models, they want to be fans. They want, yeah. They, they don’t want their standards. Things. They want to personalize things like that. She say in the video, yeah.

Oh yeah, Bruce. Oh yeah. Bruce or whatever. So they want their own content. They want to personalize and more social. So it’s, it’s interactive. It, every, I think was interactive and dating is also very interactive because the users talk between each others. Also, we are with our platform in the U S the biggest platform in the U S we have it’s You see that, that is, that is, it’s like Facebook, but it’s for sex. So it’s very popular.

And a lot of people in a lot of interaction, and we don’t do nothing. We only bring the technical background. So let the people do their own stuff and they can talk. So interactive is the state. And of course, for all the new technology, VR, VR, it’s definitely something that the next year coming up, it’s still at the early age and still that’s few companies, but they’re already doing high quality. For example, we invested in a company called <inaudible> dot com that you see all the content in VR.

And I think that the cheaper, the better the technology go, you know, if you see one day in Walmart or Walmart, or in other, you know, in a big supermarket, you see very nice virtual reality glasses for $99. And then it goes mainstream, but everybody have these glasses and good quality at home. And all the computer players, they will buy because they love this VIT reality games. And I was testing some of these content and by myself and man, it looks really it’s.

It’s like your life was to go to the room. Of course there’s, since there’s some technical six foot, but when you use your hands, your heads, that’s no hands because you have only the eye, you can look, but then one day there are some Hollywood movies already where, where people only living in a virtual world. And I think it’s, it comes to this time

Speaker 0 (39m 9s): You had sex robots too. They can be part of that.

Speaker 1 (39m 12s): Yeah. But it’s not only for sex for me. For example, I would, when I come back from, from working, I like to put virtual reality or go scuba diving. At least I have, it’s not the same like real school, but at least I have the view I can go. So there’s a lot of cool thing. Was VR coming up. Cause the dirt industry will take it. Absolutely.

Speaker 0 (39m 35s): They’re always, we’re always at the front of those things. So how did you get the moniker, the traffic captain who gave it to you? Maybe you can tell us a story.

Speaker 1 (39m 45s): Well, it was like, I was always a boat. I grew up on the, the biotech CNOs of Germany. I lived in Venezuela on the sea. I was always with boats. So the captain, the captain was already there. So, and when I, and when I started with the was mobile, I made t-shirts and hoodies for my employees first. And then I was, I, of course I am. As the CEO, I had the captain and then my CML, he had first officer and then my CTO had navigator.

And by my employees, the other had crew. So, and of course the 2d is with the scanner on it. And, and it says only SGM. So it was not so offensive to where the street like Cisco’s mobile, people were pubs in the Jeep. It wasn’t SGM than the skull. And then your rag a little bit like the <inaudible> cool black hoodie. And then all our, all our affiliates, they wanted to have t-shirts and hoodies too.

So we made one of them. We put VIP and we only gave from, I think from the hoodies, we got, it gave only 100 away to our best affiliates. And they had the VI VIP logo on it. And that fall, we had some sexy, I don’t know, some six 60. I know where for our promotion girl, and it was SGI bakes. So we had four. So that comes out at that people started to call captain, kept the captain. And of course, because of the business, we put traffic captain, but most people that they only say, captain, they don’t say really traffic captain.

They said, Hey, captain, what’s up. I have also the domain. I put I some, some years ago, the domain captain dot triple X for, from Steve Winyard when he was working there. And I have, I have, I have a little WordPress site on it. So if you want to check out captive dot triple X, you see also also some information about me and my travel. It’s my awards. And my companies

Speaker 0 (41m 55s): I’ll check. I’ll check it out. Final question. I like to ask my guests this, what does Andy warmer like to do in his spare time?

Speaker 1 (42m 2s): Yeah, scuba diving. I’m a scuba diver. I’m a rescue diver. I was scuba diver for 25 years. I, I wasn’t every ocean. I was swimming with sharks, wave sharks, turtles, sea lions, everything. It’s, that’s my, definitely my, one of my favorites hobbies. And of course I like <inaudible>

Speaker 0 (42m 30s): The, the, the party animal captain. All right, Andy. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today and adult site broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again.

Speaker 1 (42m 41s): Thank you, Bruce. And I would talk to you to make the video w for my YouTube channel. Thanks everybody for listening. Make, you know, follow this subscribe for this podcast. I’m sure Bruce will have a lot of more cool, interesting guests there and see you soon. Bye-bye

Speaker 0 (42m 56s): For tip today is part four of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, trademark your website, having a trademark instantly protects your brand and makes your site more valuable. When it comes time to sell it trademarking, your site will cost an average of about $1,500, but should be more than worth the investment. When it comes time to sell it, show buyers ways you feel the site can make more money in the future. This includes showing them future plans. You may have traffic trends as well as sales trends.

If things are growing and you can show them how to grow it more, they are more likely to pay more for the site. Do something unique with your site. If you have competitors, figure a way to do it better, be different in some distinguishable way that makes you better. Your members will notice and spend more money with you. Make your site a place that people want to visit. Not just to buy things or view porn, be creative, not just one of many. Keep thinking outside the box and make positive changes on your site.

Think like a buyer when planning or updating your site. Don’t think like a tech think like the consumer. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Maria of Best Studios.

And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Andy Wullmer. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Roger T. Pipe of Rog Reviews.

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Check out ASB-Cash-dot-com for more details and to sign up. Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re offering a rapidly growing hair, shaving site. This site shows women getting their head shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it’s much easier to promote than most adult sites.

The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they’re getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site that is a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation. It handles the billing and rebuilding user information and video displays. There’s also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales.

The first month alone, there’s no paid advertising. They go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos and social media. The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. The site has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars.

There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview my guest today on it. Don’t say broker talk is Roger T of rod reviews. Roger, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank you for having me now an avid person fans since the mid 1980s, Roger T pipe started reviewing adult movies as a hobby in 1995 and posting them to newsgroups.

Remember those now, after having them picked up by adult retail sites, Roger began Roger in 1996. The site houses over 8,000 reviews of adult movies, as well as toys, websites, and hundreds of interviews with porn stars. He’s a member of the X-rated critics organization and was inducted into the XRC O hall of fame in 2009. Roger is also a regular voter in the annual AVN and XRC awards.

He does a yearly podcast series breaking down the ABN award nominees and winners. Roger has appeared on television on naked New York, numerous radio programs, including regular segments on love bites with Bob Berkowitz, case X radio, Playboy radio daily noise. Like my dog barking back there as well as his own shows on radio. Dentata. I used to do a show on that as well. I remember we were both hosts in 2010, Roger pen to chapter entitled something for everyone, for the collection philosophy for everyone.

How to think with kink. Now, Roger, do you still remember the first porn you ever watched?

Speaker 2 (4m 29s): I, I do actually that there’s kind of two answers. The first one I ever watched wasn’t intentional. It was a movie called let’s talk sex. I didn’t realize that until much later I was babysitting and everyone was asleep and there was a tape, a VHS tape next to the VCR and being of a certain age, I was curious and I popped it in and I gotta tell you I was disgusted. I was no, no, no.

I didn’t even want to go close to it. It just was so shocking to me now, the first one I was, how old were you? I was 16. 17. Oh, wow. It was just, it was a little much. I where you, where were you from a religious upbringing or something? No, no. I had girlfriends and had been in, in person that intimate. Right. But seeing it on screen just wasn’t and again, I’m I’m old. So I come from a time when stealing my friend’s dad’s Playboy was a mission, impossible level espionage app.

And so that’s what I was expecting everything to look like. And this was an early eighties movie and it didn’t look at all like that. Nope. And it was a little much, but a few years later I had discovered a w pink TV with Christy canyon and watch that repeatedly and began my lifelong obsession with Christy canyon. Now, how did you end up with your own site, as you mentioned in the intro? I had posted in some newsgroups, like a lot of people, I got a PC, a friend of mine hooked it up to the internet and I found all of these newsgroups, which were just amazing every possible.

I kind of look at Reddit and think that was it Reddit is every newsgroup. Yep. It was all of them. And a couple of them had to do with adult movies. And I worked in video stores. And again, as a, as a young male, not living with his parents, I was kind of put in charge of the porn section for a long time. I hope

Speaker 1 (6m 38s): You did. I hope you didn’t have to, to clean up the, the booths.

Speaker 2 (6m 45s): So there was a, well, I won’t say there was never a cleanup. There was not supposed to be cleaned up, but I was kind of the resident porn expert and went to a couple of shows. So I gravitated to these newsgroups and found people, writing reviews, writing them in ways that weren’t like the adult press, the adult press in the eighties to the early nineties, AVN did their thing as a video store manager. I loved AVN because they gave us a synopsis to tell us what to buy.

Right. But from a fan’s perspective, there was nothing there. It was describing the box cover and it was very dry to me. And I found other people doing real. What I consider real reviews, really kind of digging in deep. And I started doing that partially as a sort of a writer’s block tool. I’d come home from work, write a couple of reviews and just sort of get flowing. And I found feedback instantly from other fans. Oh, I like that too. I, you know, I love this camera angle and it really, it picked up.

And then I F D adult internet film database, the guy who ran that said, you know, you really should have a place to house. These you’re just posting them to newsgroups. And I go, okay, so he put them on his site and he said, you should start your own site. So now when I bought front page, people remember that Microsoft product and I built a Roger views on front page. It was horribly clunky, but that’s how it ended up there.

Speaker 1 (8m 20s): And when did it become Raj review?

Speaker 2 (8m 23s): 96. I started reviewing manufactures. So we’re actually coming up on 25 years, I believe in may. Wow. 25 years. So it’s gone through a few iterations since the front page days, thankfully, but it, it just sort of took off and really kind of lucky that it did. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (8m 43s): Yeah. It’s become a career for you, which is fantastic. Now let’s, let’s talk about the review site landscape and we had some casual about this prior to the, to the interview. There seems to be a lot of consolidation going on right now. Have you

Speaker 2 (9m 5s): Noticed I, over the 25 years, there was a time when there were probably a good 20 to 30 review sites that I followed regularly or knew who ran them or knew who wrote for them besides AVN and ex biz and adult DVD talk and ex critic, the sites are still around. There were a lot of other smaller ones and over time they’ve sort of gone away. The consolidation part of it. It’s hard to run a site. It’s hard to review enough movies to run a site.

I know I’ve tried it. It’s very difficult. It’s hard to make a living, which means it’s hard to hire writers. I get a lot of over the years, a lot of people kind of write for your side. Like, yes, I either can’t pay you or I can pay you a very small amount. And very few people are willing to write for nothing sure. For next to nothing. Right. And I totally respect that. I, you know, I understand that completely. And I think that’s part of it.

Another thing we started talking casually, a large part of the, the porn audience no longer pays for what they’re watching. That’s true. And as such, I think they’re less reliant on reviews. What I used to get in the beginning of that. I loved these emails where, oh, thank you so much. I’ve only got so much to spend every month on, you know, on DVDs or VHS tapes. And I would have never found this if you hadn’t recommended it or thank you.

I was going to buy this and I read your review and no, it’s not for me. I chose something else. So I think that it’s still important for the people who are spending money, but also the way, the way porn is consumed, right? It’s a little different now you’ve got these huge mega sites and you know, they’ve got 4,000 scenes, you know, for 20 bucks a month, you can click on the ones you like and move around. If you don’t like something, you can decide not to watch it back when we were buying physical media, the only way to see the movie is to buy the movie.


Speaker 1 (11m 10s): That’s true. And you go, you go back to that age.

Speaker 2 (11m 13s): Sure. Yeah. I think, I think that’s part of it. I’ve always found it challenging to review websites, more challenging for me than, than physical media. Cause a physical, a movie has a beginning and an end, whether it’s a feature or a wall-to-wall compilation, doesn’t matter. It has a beginning and an end. And I can write that so that someone can read it and go, okay, now I know what’s in it. It’s to me, it’d be like reviewing an album versus reviewing a streaming music service.

It’s true. How do you review when there’s 4 million choices? You know, to me, website reviews always end up kind of talking about the bells and whistles, right. You know, how it gets the connection, which is all important stuff. Totally important. But to me it doesn’t focus on the media as much. And I think that’s part of what you’re seeing the consolidation. And again, I think as, as the industry, as a whole, the big pie is sort of shrunk. I think it shrinks all around.

And the other thing is I was able to make a living off of it and have a very understanding family for a lot of people. It was just, Hey, look, when I got married and had to go and not do this anymore. And unfortunately with a couple of sites that I used to follow a lot, LSB reviews and den CA VR, they both passed away. And there was no one to sort of, you know, I mean, I’ve got almost 9,000 reviews. Den has 26,000. So you want to talk about the king of people reviewing porn.

That was him. He unfortunately passed. So it does, you know, I think that was a long answer. Sorry. No, don’t worry about it. No,

Speaker 1 (12m 53s): Take as much time as you want. We don’t have a time limit. I like LA I like long answers. So go ahead.

Speaker 2 (12m 59s): This is actually how I ended up reviewing for the internet instead of magazines. I tried for magazines a couple of times and they said, okay, you get 200 words or 400 words. It’s like, man, I can’t describe the cast and less than 600. So the sort of open flow works well for me. I think another thing is, again, I’m, I’m 53 now. I started my you’re so young. You’re so young. So someone the same age I was when I started, they were raised on a different kind of porn on the, the bite size reviews are not as important.

Also you can see so much again, if people really want to think back to 1996, there was no video preview on the internet. Right. You know, those of us remember Napster, it took us 12 minutes to download a song on a good day. And Ooh, I have somewhere, some floppy disks with 15 second video clips. Those are amazing. Well, now you can go to Twitter and see an, a long enough preview of a movie to know if you’re going to like it or not sure.

So I think it’s changing. There’s a lot of critics doing great stuff. And I think what we’re starting to see a little bit of, and we need to see more of is well-educated critics talking about the industry in general and directions that it’s heading in addition to critiquing the movies themselves or the art, the art itself, what, what’s the place of the industry? You know, there’s a lot going on. There’s lots happening in the world in the last year.

And it’s, it’s found its way into porn and where, where do we stand on social justice issues and what is, and is not okay. I’ve 25 years in everything has changed.

Speaker 1 (14m 51s): Do you know it? Or you talked about changes. What are the biggest changes you’ve seen in the adult industry in the last 25?

Speaker 2 (14m 59s): I think the biggest change I could talk about as a shift from physical media to digital and sort of unlimited unlimited options, right? I used to go to the video store and rent DVDs or VHS tapes for a dollar and I had a budget. So if I had $5, I could get five movies right now, the equivalent of that, you can join a website and have 40,000. So the choices are infinite. And I think what it’s doing now is it’s changing everything to kind of micro economies, performers have more control because a performer with a decent brand and a good social media campaign and an iPhone can spend an afternoon making content that is going to make him or her a nice wage.

Yeah. It’s not make them rich in a day, but in the past. And I always kind of use the, the movie pirates that digital playground did years ago, which is a great movie, but in order to make that they had to pay all the pre-production people pay the costume designers, pay the writers, pay an entire cast, an entire crew, edit the movie market. The movie duplicate the movie. All of this money had had to be made in order to make a profit. Now, performer doesn’t have to work for $800 or $400 a scene.

They can make that money themselves in their own bedroom, maybe more than that. So it doesn’t have to support this huge movie in order to make a profit. And I think that’s a really big thing. And social media has made a huge, huge impact on that, that, and the direct to consumer platforms, right? Only fan is obviously the one that everybody’s using right now. It’s, it’s easy. And I say easy. I don’t mean to dismiss how hard especially the women in this industry work, right?

But if you are popular, it is not nearly as tough to make a living and work every day. If you’re willing to work every day and you see it with the performers who are popular and who last no, this and that they work. And there’s enough fans willing to give them small amounts of money, seemingly small. But that’s what we used to pay the video store to rent the movie and a couple of dollars at a time from a few thousand people adds up pretty quickly. And that is something that if I could go back 25 years, that Roger would not have understood it.

I couldn’t have had a concept of this. Imagine going back 25 years and saying, look, porn stars. Don’t have to do movies. Not really that there’s going to be this thing where everybody’s phone is going to have an update on their favorite 50 porn stars. Right? Well, you could,

Speaker 1 (17m 45s): Well, you couldn’t have imagined smartphones. Let’s start with that.

Speaker 2 (17m 49s): Yeah. Or, or, or, or

Speaker 1 (17m 52s): Gig speed internet or five G.

Speaker 2 (17m 56s): Yeah. That’s like I said, somewhere, there is a box of floppy disks that I think have three images, a piece on them. I love it. You know, it’s, it’s ridiculous. But the, the individual access points for porn, again, nobody has to go into a video store anymore. And, and video stores were a huge jump forward from adult theaters. Right. Then all of a sudden, instead of having to go to a theater and risk being seen, you went to a store and you took a movie home. Right.

And now you don’t even have to do that. Now you can just, you know, have whatever device you have. It it’s really it’s revolutionized everything. And it makes me wonder if I’m around for 10 more years. What’s it gonna look like?

Speaker 1 (18m 40s): I think, I think you’ll be around for 10 more years. I sure hope so.

Speaker 2 (18m 44s): We’ll see

Speaker 1 (18m 48s): If people are sick of me yet. Maybe they won’t. Oh, you met in the industry. Okay. All good. Or you were worried, you were worrying me for a second. Roger

Speaker 2 (18m 56s): Should be good there. Okay, good.

Speaker 1 (19m 0s): Now, how have conventions in adult expo changed?

Speaker 2 (19m 4s): They’ve changed a ton. I went to my first convention in 1988. Back when the adult industry got together twice a year in Las Vegas, once for the video software distributors association. And then for CES consumer electronics show, then was the biggest electronic show, at least in the country. I don’t know about the world, but certainly in the United States, everything, video games, computers, cameras, cars, it was huge. And as part of that, the adult industry was very smart and said, we’re going to take the Sahara and all of you men, because it was primarily men who like electronics and like porn, you get to go to these shows.

And that, that was the first one I did. And people would wait in long lines to pose for a picture, get an autograph because that was it. Right. Unless your favorite star came to dance in your town. Yeah. And I came from, you know, suburban San Diego. So unless I wanted to go downtown state. Oh, I love

Speaker 1 (20m 1s): That sound. I didn’t know. I didn’t know you’re from there. I love it. So that’s one of my favorite places in the world.

Speaker 2 (20m 7s): It’s great. Yeah. But you were lucky if you had a star come through. Yeah, I know. So waiting in line for two hours to get an autograph wasn’t anything, you, you batted an eye at base. It was worth it to have 45 seconds of conversation. Right. Get an autographs. And now you open your phone and you know what they’ve had for breakfast before you even wake up. Right. So I think some of the shine is gone and also some of the reasons for it, one of the big reasons for stars to go to CES was so people would see them.

So the guys who were in computers would go who’s this Janine woman would know was

Speaker 1 (20m 46s): No. At that time was part of CES or just adjacent to CES.

Speaker 2 (20m 52s): It was, it was part of CS. Oh, AVN was there, but it wasn’t their show yet. So it really, I don’t want to say took over. Yeah. It was just, it was just CES. And you had to have a separate badge. And I distinctly remember the first two times I went with my father because he owned a video store. And on Sunday of the show, we could sell our pass to go upstairs at this hour for a hundred bucks. And we paid nothing for it. It was, people were waiting in line to bypasses. Cause you had to, you had to have an in, in order to get in.

And it, it was much different. I think in a lot of ways. And I don’t want to sound like the old guy. He wasn’t, it was nicer. It was kinder than, yeah. I, I think the fans were kinder to performers. Performers had to be kinder to fans. It was their only interaction. And I think it sort of goes both ways, right? Yeah. You S you sit with a line of people who are impatient and greedy all day, and you’re going to be a little short too. Yeah.

But now with social media, I think people are just so casual and not that you have to, you know, bow down and treat them like, you know, royalty, but you should treat them with respect as you would anyone. And I see a lot less of that these days. Sure. Well, I think that’s all world. Yeah. It could be. I, I still like going to conventions, but now it’s more to catch up with people. Right. But back then, it was really important for, for an adult star, trying to get a name together, to, to sign a bunch of autographs and send them home.

The guys at the video store wanted to go through my album every year. Who’s who we looking for, who was pretty, who was, you know, and, and it was, it was a great marketing tool. Yeah. So I think it’s, it’s still great marketing, but again, I think it’s now you’re handing individual business cards and it’s, it’s smaller, more personal transactions that are sure.

Speaker 1 (22m 49s): My first year in the business, I went to a van and Internext I in Vegas that would have been about 17 years ago. I th I’d say, and I posed with all the porn stars. Cause I knew that the pictures would be interesting to my friends on, oh God were there. I didn’t know any of them. I, I, I’ve never been much of a porn profe consumer before I got into this industry.

And I can see I’m a big porn consumer. Now I’m a B2B guy, but at the same time, oh God, that guys will go, oh, look, there’s so-and-so. I go, oh yeah,

Speaker 2 (23m 33s): Yeah. It’s it is a lot of fun to people watch, especially the, oh God. Yeah. I used to stand in line and people would bring stacks of stuff to audit, to be autographed. You know, magazines box covers all kinds of cool stuff. That was, that was pretty fun. Fun to watch.

Speaker 1 (23m 50s): Oh yeah. No, what I, what I enjoyed, I remember there was an industry only day, which is when I went in and then I went to the DIT to one of the days where the crowds were there. I was like, these guys, the girls would throw a t-shirt and they’d be tearing it apart, you know, to, to, to try to get it. It was like, oh my God. I was like, okay, I didn’t quite get it, but okay.

Speaker 2 (24m 17s): I remember the first show I went to. I think it was the second performer I ever met. Trinity Lauryn, who who’s passed a beautiful woman, huge breasts. I was just 21. That’s why I got to go my first time in Vegas. And I went to pose for a picture and I put my hand on her hip stood next to her as, as if I were with anyone. Yeah. And she clearly saw that I was nervous and grabbed my hand from her hip, put it on her boob. And I swear to you, I jumped, like someone had shot me in the chest.

I have to, but it’s okay. I want to, I just, it was a shock. I know, I know it was, it was just so I was not expecting and it’s adorable.

Speaker 1 (25m 5s): That’s adorable.

Speaker 2 (25m 7s): Of course. Now, now I stand in line. I see people groping and it’s like, man, don’t don’t if she wants you to, she will. And it’ll be,

Speaker 1 (25m 15s): Security’s very active. I was at a AVN last year and oh my God security. I saw security throwing a couple of guys. It’s just like, ah, I was in, I was in the F mainly in the B2B area, but to get to the B2B area, I’d go through the B to C area, unfortunately. And it was like, oh Lord.

Speaker 2 (25m 36s): Yeah, there there’s. And unfortunately there is some, some truly bad behavior that goes, yeah,

Speaker 1 (25m 41s): Of course they get drunk. They’re in Vegas, they get drunk. And I think they believe this what happens in Vegas shit. And then they end up in a jail cell. So, well it happened in Vegas. So what are the most common questions you get from readers?

Speaker 2 (25m 58s): Oh man. Over the years, probably the most common is what do I watch with my partner? Right. It used to get that a lot, especially again, when we go back to when it was movies and when, okay. My wife’s going to watch movies with me, what should I bring home? And we used to get that in the video stores all the time, too. Right. The guys that go in by themselves, they know what they want. They don’t need ask. Sure. But, but couples, a lot of times it’s what can you, you know, what can you recommend? And it was, that’s always been a great question to me because it made me feel like I was, I was helping in some way to point people in the right direction.

And, and it, it always a special to me because what was typical couples, porn didn’t work in my house. My wife doesn’t want to see softcore. She would say, if we’re going to watch bad acting, let’s just watch bad acting. You know, if we’re going to watch porn, let’s watch porn. That’s fine. Yeah. I

Speaker 1 (26m 51s): Like, I like it. I like your wife already.

Speaker 2 (26m 53s): It was like, look, this is it’s soft piano music, and it’s bad acting. Let’s just move on. And a lot of couples porn, especially mid two thousands focused a lot on lesbian sex. And that’s not what my wife likes. She actively tunes out during those points. So I learned from that, that couples porn is whatever you guys are into. Right. So my answer would usually be sort of in the form of a professor question. Right. Okay. I have a followup question in eight parts for you, but fill

Speaker 1 (27m 24s): Out, fill out, fill out this questionnaire and get back to

Speaker 2 (27m 27s): Me, ABC. But I usually have a couple of titles. Like if you like serious features, here’s a couple, if you like really pretty stuff, here’s a couple and, and on and on. And one of my answers to that was I, before my wife had a girlfriend who didn’t like porn and there was one that she liked and we watched it over and over. So I’d always tell people, the chameleon watch the chameleon and old John Lesley movie, because someone who didn’t like porn at all would watch it over and over. Cause she really liked it. So that was a good one.

One of the ones I, I didn’t like one of the ones I didn’t like was how do you hide your porn? It was easy for me to answer was I, I don’t, I never have, you know, I didn’t break it out on the first date, but I had working in video stores over the years and going to shows I had a collection of pictures of autographs of movies. Right. And at the appropriate time, you know, let my girlfriend know I have this and she became my wife. I have this. Similarly when I started the site, I didn’t hide it from her.

You know, she came into the spare bedroom one day and I was typing, what are you doing? I’m writing a porn review. And she left the room. And when it came time to, Hey, I can make some money doing this. It was a conversation we had together. So back back to the question, how do you hide it? My answer is always don’t right. If you have to hide it, it’s not the right relationship. Or if it’s the right relationship and they, they won’t tolerate it. That’s okay, too. Right. But the idea of hiding it to me was it was never hidden. You asked earlier about my background, my parents had stuff.

I wasn’t allowed around it because I was kid. Right. But it wasn’t because this isn’t supposed to be in the house. It was, this is not for children. And you know, my parents owned the store. So my mom recommended porn for couples. So I always been very, you know, don’t hide it. If you have to hide it, this was probably a problem. And probably the, the third question I used to love this. Do you get paid for this? Right?

Speaker 1 (29m 29s): No. I died. Do it out of the goodness of my heart.

Speaker 2 (29m 32s): I had a group of friends. We were all very much into sports and sports talk and we’d go to sports bars. And my friend Adrian, his favorite thing to do was sort of do a bar bet with someone. You’ll never guess what this guy does for a living. Oh, I love it. And then the guests and I eventually say, and of course it was like, no, you don’t. And then it was okay, let me see your phone. Now, keep in mind, this was a flip phone, but here there’s Jules Jordan’s phone number, Jenna, Jameson phone number. You know, these people, I’m like, this is what I do for a living. And then it was guess how much he makes and you know, and then of course, then what Adrian would do was, you know, if you will buy our table beer and chicken wings, you can go to Roger’s trunk, which you know, was filled with porn.

Anytime I went out because I had all the screeners coming in and no place for them. So right. So

Speaker 1 (30m 20s): Have some DV, have some DVDs and we get, we get beer and chicken wings. That’s

Speaker 2 (30m 25s): Awesome. You pick up our tab. You can walk away with, I remember one time, one of the guys go in, you know, he walked away with $400 worth of movies like Gabby. We got beer and chicken wings. They exactly had a trunk before. And I didn’t have beer and chicken wings and supply and demand here. I think he did well. Do you still,

Speaker 1 (30m 46s): You still like porn after all these years? And so many reviews

Speaker 2 (30m 49s): I do when I, when I was doing it, when it was my entire job, I used to tell my wife, the last weekend of the month was Disney weekend. Cause I was done. I was tired of watching people have sex. Now I don’t do it nearly as much, but come award time when I’m doing 20 hours a day, four and five monitors going on all the different performances. Yeah. I get burnout, but a good movie or a good performer. I still like it. And I think if I didn’t, I wouldn’t still do this.

I’m married. Have a job. Have kids have all these things going on. If I didn’t still like it, I I’d probably just let it all go. Yeah. Yeah. You’ve got it. You’ve got, have you got a regular job too? I do. For about the last eight years, we had some family medical issues and I needed to have steady income because the, you know, the site went through some adjustment periods and the industry changed a lot, had a couple of big advertisers that left and it was okay.

Now we’re going to struggle some months. And instead said, you know, I can go get a regular job and benefits and cover everything. That’s always so nice do this. I prefer the other, you know, if, if I, if someone came along and said, Raj wants you to run the site for the next five years, here’s going to be your base salary. I do it in a heartbeat and I would do eight, eight to 10 hours a day without a problem. But without that guaranteed money, you know, kids in college, mom’s got some medical issues.

Yeah, absolutely. Now

Speaker 1 (32m 30s): Are there generals you won’t review or don’t like,

Speaker 2 (32m 34s): I never say that I won’t review something. As far as a genre goes, there’s genres. I like more than others. I’m not a huge fan of lesbian porn. Like I mentioned, my wife doesn’t like it. Therefore I like it a lot less because it doesn’t interest her. Right. And there’s stuff that I really like. So I’ll watch a lot of that, but I’ve only reviewed a couple of gay titles and it’s not because I have a problem with it. It’s because it doesn’t do anything for me.

Speaker 1 (33m 5s): Yeah. You know, I, I think to do, I think to review gay porn, you almost have to be a consumer

Speaker 2 (33m 15s): Of it. And I think

Speaker 1 (33m 18s): The same probably goes,

Speaker 2 (33m 22s): That’s how I feel that gay BI, trans and fetish to bond, I’m not a big bondage guy. So what, what ended up happening was in those reviews, I’d get feedback going. Okay. You talked about the lighting, you talked about the editing. It’s like, yeah, because it’s, it’s two men get what they’re doing. I totally understand it. I don’t know what you, the consumer are looking for.

Speaker 1 (33m 47s): Have you ever thought of bringing, bringing people in to be specialists?

Speaker 2 (33m 52s): Yes. Over the years, there’s, there’s a lot more than just a couple of gay reviews on my site. They’re almost exclusive written by other people for that reason because to me, otherwise, that’s all I’m talking about. Right, right, right. The other, the other stuff. And it just, if it doesn’t click with me, I don’t think I’m doing it justice. Cause I get it. I get it.

Speaker 1 (34m 17s): I’ve got, I’ve got some amazing gay friends and I’m from San Francisco for God sakes. What can I say? My, my best friend growing up is gay. My brother-in-law’s gay. I mean, I could go on and on, but the bottom line is, and I’m not going to do this. Some of my best friends are gay because that’s, that sounds like it, that sounds like a, a, you know, a cop out. But

Speaker 2 (34m 40s): I am not

Speaker 1 (34m 42s): One who enjoys or watches gay porn or, or shemale porn and lesbian porn can be okay. But it’s not my favorite. So now while I sell a sites, I absolutely will sell those sites, but I don’t have to watch them to sell them.

Speaker 2 (35m 2s): Yeah. And that’s, if, if I could find consistent writers, I do a lot more of those genres because for me, I don’t feel like I’m doing it any justice and that’s, that’s not fair to me. I have to be connected.

Speaker 1 (35m 16s): That’s the way we should talk on. Maybe I can send some people in your direction. I know a lot of people, so I might have some ideas for you. I might have some ideas for you

Speaker 2 (35m 25s): Used to go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead. We used to have this argument, right. Is, is porn art or is it something else? And to me I’ve always said edit’s core porn is masturbation material. If you’re lucky, you’ve got a partner there to help out. Yeah. So ultimately what’s good is what makes your naughty bits tingle. Yeah. Right. And they can, it can be objectively good or it can be whatever flips, all your right switches. Right. And if something doesn’t flip the switches, it doesn’t matter what the production value is.

It doesn’t matter at all. Yeah. And so to me, there’s always this balance and I try and be really fair, but there’s some things I’m not going to be fair about. There’s some things that are going to appeal to me more than they’re going to appeal to anybody reading my review. Tom Byron used to laugh when Tommy was working for extreme making movies. He said, I know exactly how you get a perfect review from you. I’m like, really? You got me figured out and he rattled off five performers. He goes, I just have to be in the movie because you like my performances and these five women.

And I’m like, yeah, you’re probably right. That’s a consumer. I would have blocked that movie because I would’ve looked at it and gone, holy crap. I’m going to like all this. Yeah, of course. Of course. I like,

Speaker 1 (36m 41s): I like, I, I’m not, I’m not necessarily partial to any, any particular performers. I like book hockey though. That’s fun. The Japanese version of it is, is pretty crazy. So anyway,

Speaker 2 (36m 57s): Easy stuff. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (36m 59s): Oh yeah. Now did you ever think about getting in front of the camera?

Speaker 2 (37m 4s): I’ve been in front of the camera fully dressed, but nobody, nobody needs to vomit. It’s just not something that ever really presented itself. Sure. My wife’s very comfortable with just about everything that wasn’t something she was particularly comfortable with, except for on a couple of occasions and then the timing wasn’t right. Or, you know, you can shoot your own stuff, but it costs money. And so, yeah, but I’ve been in a couple of movies, just a little bit parts and stuff, but mostly just my interest is as a fan and as a journalist.

And I think that’s where I belong.

Speaker 1 (37m 46s): There you go. And you do it well now, now do you have any favorite interviews over the years?

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): Yeah, I do. There’s people I interviewed repeatedly who were always good. Aurora snow was always good for a great interview. She has a great sense of humor. She’s smart. And I got to interview her from when she was brand new to when she was done as a performer and had accomplished all these great things. So that was great because then we sort of got the typical porn reviewer questions out of the way, you know, who her favorite position knew, where she was from all that stuff and had to kind of dig and talk a little more.

And that always worked well. Robbie D when he was at digital playground, digital playground was always really good at controlling their message and their image. And Robbie was always really good at giving me a whole lot more than they were comfortable with, but they made for great interviews. I interviewed Lexington steel four or five times, and we never did a regular interview. It was always in a sports bar or in a restaurant. And we would let the tape roll for two or three hours. And sometimes Lex would be particularly relaxed and got it.

And it, it, it was great. It, again, it became more conversational.

Speaker 1 (39m 7s): You mentioned, you mentioned him. I was in Miami the night he melted down.

Speaker 2 (39m 13s): I witnessed it. It was, it was

Speaker 1 (39m 15s): Quite interesting to say the least.

Speaker 2 (39m 18s): He was, he was a fun person. I remember I, I was in a spoons restaurant with Lexington Steele and Mike, John, when he was directing it anabolic as well as Lex and the waitress recognized Lex and kept coming over. And Mike, Mike and Lex were both very relaxed and it became a thing. It became a thing because, because Mike was not having it, it’d be, Hey, I’m a famous director here. Hold on. That’s funny.

And, and Lexa at the time had a relationship and was trying very hard to politely. Yep. We’re kind of busy. God, that’s good.

Speaker 1 (39m 58s): I guess, I guess I caught them on a bad day.

Speaker 2 (40m 1s): Yeah. He, he’s always been really great to me. And sometimes you can catch people on a bad day. Yes. I’m not gonna say his name, but my wife has a particular porn star. She always liked, always liked. And that gentleman happens to be one of the coolest people I’ve ever met was cool to me when I was going to shows and passing out physical copies of reviews to let people know what I was doing, this particular guy, you know what I’m going to go. I’m going to go out because he’s a cool guy. It was Sean, Michael and Sean pulled a review out of the trash because the president man, that’s true.

Speaker 1 (40m 35s): I thought you were going to say Ron, Jeremy, but go ahead.

Speaker 2 (40m 37s): No. So Sean actually pulled a review out and grabbed me as to hold on. I want to read this before you leave. And he was always great. He was super cool. And my wife thought he was just super handsome and a great performer. So she almost never went to shows. She went to one, we walked over to the booth and I went to introduce my wife to Sean. And he was having a bad day. And it just, my wife was like, wow, that was really kind of unpleasant. I’m like, I know, I know. And it was, Sean said he will make it up to her at some point. It was just one of those.

Wait, no, you’re always the nicest guy. What happened? Yeah. But of all my interviews that I’ve done, my favorite was with John Deliana because of who he is. It obviously was a big deal. He and I sat down in a restaurant in Vegas and he just obliterated the whole idea of porn critics. Just your entire, your entire profession is full of shit. And he told me in three or four other critics, why we were all full of shit. And I basically said, oh, good point.

I disagree. And here’s why. And I told them where I came from and, and, and how I got into it and why I got into it. But I got into it for the fans. And at the end of the day, he is a, his wife gave me his card and said, call or set up an interview. So I went to his house, which was surreal for me as a fan. Right. I’m sitting in this room that I’d seen in 20 of my favorite movies. Oh, wow. He showed me where the fire came up and damaged the house. And he sat and watched a Cubs game while we did an interview.

And it was just this long flowing conversation that would stop whenever Sammy Sosa came to the plate. I know,

Speaker 1 (42m 17s): I know about what time, what year

Speaker 2 (42m 20s): It was. Yeah, it was. And we talked for probably an hour about baseball and then he would get a call from John Leslie. So hang up the phone and say it was John. And then we started talking about John and then Joey Silvera called. And he, so it was this sort of meandering long four and a half hours. But in the end it was really good and I couldn’t help, but just be a huge fan. And there’s so much porn history that, that he just wove in, in that time. And it was really glad we had that setting because in Vegas, you’ve got 15 minutes usually.

Right? If you’re lucky, you get to have your questions all asked and that’s all you can do. And this was a whole lot more and I’m really proud of it. And I’d love to do it again at some point testing.

Speaker 1 (43m 5s): Do you still have any one on your wishlist for interviews?

Speaker 2 (43m 8s): I, yeah. I really wish I had had a chance to interview John Leslie, because I think he’s just such a fantastic artist. Unfortunately, he passed, right? I’d like to sit down with Angela White. Again, I interviewed her early in her American phase of her career where she was super fun and energetic. And I kept thinking, my God, who is this woman? And how are we going to contain this energy now, you know, five years and three avian performer of the year awards later, I, I see where she was going.

And I would love to sit down with her a couple others, Greg Lansky, who’s done so much recently. I would love to sit down and talk with him. Kayden Krause, who I interviewed when she was a performer at digital playground. Again, she’s transitioned to being an award-winning director now. And I haven’t had an interview Jules Jordan in probably 10, 10 years. And again, someone who’s been around for a long time and seen all the changes and has had to do company pivots.

I find that really interesting interviewing new porn performers is a little less interesting to me these days, just because I hate to sound like the old guy, but I re I read the interview and I’m like, yeah, I asked those questions 20 years ago to, you know, she’s going to tell you if her position is doggy. Cause they all do. So I’d like to do interviews like that. And, Hmm.

Speaker 1 (44m 37s): Well, I have famous famous people. Definitely. Have you ever been recognized or had a, your famous moment?

Speaker 2 (44m 45s): I get recognized. It shows mostly by people in the industry. Yeah. Fans or readers don’t really recognize me there. There was a picture of me anywhere for a good 10 years. Yeah. So not often there are two examples. I’ll try and keep them short. Okay. In Vegas one year I was, I was walking the floor and of course we have our name badges on. They’re pretty big. And I was hurrying cause I always do. I don’t like crowds. So you’ve been on the floor. Right. And imagine someone who doesn’t like crowds, someone who is perpetually running late and needing to be on the other side of the room three minutes ago, trying to move quickly.

So I’m moving quickly and someone grabs my arm and says, Hey, which back then good internet feuds going on. Maybe I’m about to get punched. I’m not sure. So I was a little defensive and the guy pointed and said, you’re Roger. I’m like, I am. I read your site. I really love your stuff. Super nice guy. So stopped and talked to him long story short he’s from Vegas. W you know, what are you, what are you guys doing to get parties going on? And I sit down, I’m kind of not a party guy anymore. A couple of my friends were going to go, maybe see this particular show tonight.

And he said, really whips out his card. He’s the producer of the show. We wanted to see. Oh, weird. I said, that’s, that’s such a coincidence. We were looking for tickets. It’s like, you know what? You know what, give me your number. I’ll call you in 15 minutes. We’ll say it with some tickets. Nice. So center fourth row. Amazing seats. Wow. He came at an intermission and said, Hey, come backstage after the show. That’s cool. So

Speaker 1 (46m 17s): What was the, what was the, what was, what was the show? It was mama Mia. Oh.

Speaker 2 (46m 22s): And it was really one of the coolest things ever all because he recognized me the other one. That’s amazing. It, it was it’s super nice. What was really cool for me was he met me in my element. Right. So we’re talking, people are walking by and saying hello to me. And he said, oh, that’s, so-and-so that? And they’re like, yeah. You know them? Yes. We went backstage at this musical that I had just, you know, enjoyed the hell out of. And he walks into the room and everybody turns and says, hello is very differential.

And like, in here, you’re the man, you know? So when we kind of went out on stage, take some pictures and a couple of the cast members were like, would, would you like us to come out? It was like, oh, that’s because we’re with this guy over here. So it was, it was very cool. He’s a great guy. And when the show came to LA, he set us up with some tickets to my family, got tickets. It was great. That’s awesome. That, that was, that was the best. The funniest to me back in the beginning, my sister was going to school in San Francisco actually.

And she was hanging out where to go. She went to San Francisco state. That’s my Alma mater. It’s a great campus. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47m 37s): Yeah. It’s kinda, kinda old school. Kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (47m 40s): Yeah. So she was up there and she apparently was in a dorm room, hanging out with some friends, some guys dorm room. And she knew what I did. My family knew right from the beginning. And she saw, she saw a binder on his desk with my name on it. And so she kind of waited and pulled it out and said, what is this? And the guy goes, oh, it’s this guy who reviews porn on the internet. And we just print out some of the funny reviews and some of the ones we really like, and we sort of pass this book around so we know what to buy.

She called me up. She said, you’re not going to believe where I saw your work. Like, well, apparently I’m, I’m San Francisco state.

Speaker 1 (48m 19s): I love it. I love it. The, the Gators, the Gators, the Gators love ya. I used to, I used to call her football games among other things. So do you think the era of porn stars is over?

Speaker 2 (48m 31s): I don’t think for example, there’s ever going to be another Jen and Jamison. I just don’t. I think that kind of crossover mainstream, everybody knows her name is kind of gone because there’s no studio system pushing anybody. Now. Jen was fantastic. She also had Hugh a huge company behind her running campaigns with her at the center. Yep. That doesn’t happen anymore. Performers have to do that. Almost always on their own social media.

Yeah. Yeah. And some of them are fantastic at it. Right. Riley Reed, people know who Riley Reed is in the mainstream, but not like 1980s, ginger Lynn or 1990s. Jenna Jamison. It’s different. Sure. And in that way, if we wanted to find porn star that way. Yes. But if you want to define it as a star, as an artist doing their own thing, no, Angela, White’s got three performers. Have your titles. Nobody else has more than two.

She’s probably going to get one or two more before she’s done. Yeah. So that’s not a coincidence. It’s just a different kind of stardom, I think now. Yeah. Yeah. No,

Speaker 1 (49m 42s): No. Two ways about it. Clip artists are stars now. So, so how will the industry need to adapt to thrive in the future?

Speaker 2 (49m 52s): I think they’re going to have to embrace. And I think they already have, but I think they’re going to continue to embrace the micro economies. Right. Performers doing their own thing is the way to go. And companies are going to have to figure out that in the past, like going way back, a lot of performers did adult movies, right? So they could feature dance because the money was in dancing. And then for a while you did movies to promote your own website. Right. Cause that’s, what’s really wanted, but you had to do a Brazzers movie or Jules Jordan movie to get known.

Yep. Now you’ve got performers that have the big companies saying, Hey, come shoot a scene for us because you’ve already got a million social media fans and you are going to bring people to our brand instead of the other way around. So I, I think they’re going to have to just continue to embrace that. And before we’re thinking what’s next,

Speaker 1 (50m 44s): They better have a truckload of cash too, because really most of these clip artists and cam performers don’t really have a big financial incentive to go do a shoot for a site, I mean, is, is, is even a thousand dollars or $2,000 a day going to be that interesting to them when they consider it home in their bathrobe and makeup.

Speaker 2 (51m 7s): Yeah. That’s the thing, the new performers who don’t know that yet are still going to do movies the old way. Yeah. But again, for, for the, the truly hardworking and dedicated performer. Yeah. Cut out a little bit of time for yourself every day and maximize that. Sure. You don’t need to do much,

Speaker 1 (51m 27s): But I mean, who doesn’t, what, what young lady or in some cases, young man doesn’t know that doesn’t know about only fans. My God,

Speaker 2 (51m 37s): I think they all know about it. I think the allure is still go shoot your own content. Do a live show, make a couple hundred dollars today or go shoot, make $800. Come back home. You’re done. I think the entrepreneurial spirit is what’s going to get you right. We’re thinking, or again, either way is good. But to me, if I can make a hundred percent of what I make, right.

It’s all me. Right. Or I go out and I get paid to do a job, but from someone else where they’re collecting the bulk of the profit yeah. The appeals there. And I think that’s only going to continue to grow. You’re going to find a lot more performance to get into it already knowing that. Right. And that’s going to make it tough if the industry doesn’t embrace it. And I think you’re going to see a lot more crossover. Yeah. Yes. This is shot from my site, but also for your clip store and your only fans and whoever gets the customer’s eyes first gets that 20 bucks.

Right. That and kill piracy. If we can just find a way to kill piracy. We’re fine. Yeah. I’ve got

Speaker 1 (52m 46s): An, I’ve got an interview on that. I’ve got an interview coming up on that in the next week with, with the notable piracy company that we’re going to talk about that. So I cover all bases. Roger adult, adult site broker talk is everywhere. Well, Hey, I’d like to thank you once again for being our guest today on adult side broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do it again really soon. My pleasure. Thank you. My broker tip today is part three of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, find new ways to monetize your website, such as sell advertising.

If you’ve got a free site, like a that’s the best way to monetize your site. If you have a tube, another way to make more money is to sell premium memberships, offer free users, one level of content. And for premium users, you can do things like give them higher quality videos or longer videos or both. You can also make the site ad free for premium members. Start an affiliate program. If you have a pay site, especially this is a great way to increase your quality of traffic and get more joins with all sites, you can figure out other upgrades and products you can sell to your users.

Pay sites can also sell pay view where people have the option of paying by the scene for content they can’t get on the site. This is also another way to charge users as opposed to a monthly fee, sell them other products like toys and novelties market, your business, do things to improve your search engine results like using SEO. There are some great SEO consultants out there who can help you get higher search rankings in Google. If you want some recommendations, please contact us on our website list.

All of the benefits of your site in your marketing and how they affect the user. And of course, hire a great marketing consulting firm, such as adult B2B marketing, which we also happen to own eliminate unneeded expenses constantly make sure you’re not spending money. You don’t need to make sure there isn’t duplication in your staffing from time to time check services you pay for like hosting and see if there are better and less expensive options. Take it from me. I’ve done this and saved a bunch. Plus got higher quality hosting in the process.

Again, ask us for recommendations. Always look for ways to do things more cost-effectively along with this, make your profit and loss statements show more profit, increasing sales and reducing expenses obviously does just that make sure your P and L statement accurately reflects your company’s actual costs. Not a bunch of personal BS you’ve put in for the tax man. This will cost you money when you sell it may help you at tax time to put that stuff on your tax return, but it hurts you.

If you show that stuff on your profit and loss statement, remember every dollar in profit increases the value of your website. As much as three to four times, this is why you need a good experience broker to help lead you through the process. We’ve gotten people thousands of dollars, more on their sale just by adjusting the P and L statement to reflect actual business expenses. As opposed again, to that personal BS that you put on your tax return. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Andy Wulmer of Traffic Partnerr.

Yes. The traffic captain himself. You don’t want to miss that.

Speaker 0 (56m 14s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Roger of Rog Reviews. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Aina Sivceva of Adsterra.

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Now time for this week’s interview, my guest today on adults, a broker talk is <inaudible> of etc. I Anna, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk,

Speaker 2 (2m 52s): Hey, thanks for having me today.

Speaker 1 (2m 57s): Nice to have you. Now, Ian is head of the CPA department at the company. She has five years of experience in affiliate marketing. She started as an account manager and grew into her current role. She specializes in every vertical at etc, such as mobile utilities, VPNs dating offers, sweepstakes and desktop offers also software. And ad-ons. She regularly attends events to showcase new trends and develop a partnership with new and existing partners.

Miss seeing you at those shows, by the way, now I ended up believes that business comes in all shapes and sizes. And the most important thing is to find a common language with a partner to have a successful test. Now, et cetera, is a world-known ad network with a partner care approach, serving over 30 billion ad impressions per month worldwide. That’s a lot. It works with over 30 works with over 13,000 direct publishers and over 9,000 brands, affiliates, media agencies and ad networks dealing with mainstream and non-mainstream verticals.

Advertisers may choose between an intuitive self-service platform with automated onboarding, automated onboarding, and live chat support, or working through a personal manager, et cetera, helps advertisers meet their KPIs and grow their ROI while publishers get their maximum E CPN with their easy to use advanced traffic solutions and the best team in the industry. And if you don’t know what those are, then, then you’ll have to check our glossary online.

Well, 2020 pose, many challenges, the online adult industry, sub boom and traffic Diana. Now what big opportunities has the pandemic created for you and your customers?

Speaker 2 (4m 47s): So well, I did sterile where you work without any interactions. Most of the staff had done had been moved online, but the work processes did we change and didn’t get interrupted. We can actually be in touch with our partners 24 7. Yeah. And we keep working hard in our internal updates in order to provide the best customer service. So in 2020, we came up with a few great solutions. We presented a new ad format that helped us to attract new advertisers.

And we invented two unique solutions for publishers that allowed us to work with different traffic sources, not only website, but applications, Facebook pages, and other traffic sources. Wow. Yeah. That’s, that’s great. I will. Yeah. And what I would like to mention also what we’ve noticed during last year that 2020s showed us that desktop traffic is still performing great.

Like during last, last year, mobile traffic was the winner one and what’s performing, but this last year, under new circumstances, maybe people said at home, they worked remotely. And these, all these changes led to the fact that the conversion rate and the face on the desktop traffic has increased a lot. And we’ve got many great cases in adult vertical, such as scams, and datings on desktop traffic.

So compared to the previous years, desktop traffic now is a large piece of cake. So do not miss the chance to work with it. Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (6m 33s): Yeah. I think people look past desktop and there’s still a ton of people using it. I know I do. Maybe it’s just because I’m old. I don’t know. So how does someone choose an ad network to attract traffic to their website?

Speaker 2 (6m 48s): Brief, total understand it can be better, hard to choose the right network that will generate the best to the new possible, but also will do not damage your brand and end user experience in the long run they’ll be for any ad network does consider some important questions like payments on time, on time. And that Sarah would pay twice after vertically and fix a days. And we’ve worked with different payment methods, Elsa latching, ventric, and that say a lot about advertisers on the network because advertisements need to be relevant to, then it will work well with your website needs.

Now the Sarah, we, we can offer wireless ad formats like poop ponder. So social bar, which is new banner ads, native ads, video player, all of direct links. One important part to consider is the safe ads we do have in house anti fraud, checking the tools as well as third parties like <inaudible> edits there, malware like re-directs downloads, it’s strictly prohibited.

So it’s very important that all the say all the ads will be saved last, but not least. I’m really proud of our Supreme account management. W they will guide you through all the complaints. They just, and they’ll help you and share their rich experience.

Speaker 1 (8m 29s): And they also, and they also were the coolest shirts at the shows too, but

Speaker 2 (8m 33s): We really famous of our brands. T-shirts now, you know, one thing you mentioned, you

Speaker 1 (8m 41s): Mentioned about make sure the network isn’t going to damage your brand. How would that happen?

Speaker 2 (8m 48s): It’s can damage your, your brand can do the experience for example, desk, imagine your users goals and the sum, and knowing that with that divestment, then that will pop up. And in thousand times, of course they will leave your website or Google can ban your website and you will lose all your CEO settings the second. Yeah. That’s that’s because it’s very hard to choose right.


Speaker 1 (9m 23s): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I guess. Yeah. I guess you have to ask, I guess you have to ask for referrals for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (9m 29s): We’ve got, by the way, we’ve got lifetime referral, a referral program, and each partner would joint itself via your referral link. We’ll add you 5% of their profit to your income. Wasn’t

Speaker 1 (9m 43s): It was it. Wasn’t the kind of referral I was talking to, but that’s a good point. I meant like recommendations, but yeah, yeah, yeah. You definitely should talk to somebody, somebody clients first and see how they like them. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (9m 56s): Definitely. Now who got exam experience. Yep,

Speaker 1 (10m 0s): Exactly. Now as a publisher, what should I be doing to make more money with the traffic and visitors? I have,

Speaker 2 (10m 8s): I mean, you sound the, a publisher just continue to develop your site, fill it with content, work on CEO. And then the magical happened by itself because we take care of all the issues related to advertising. Personal manager will select the best advertising four months based on your expectations for revenue and it user experience, they will help you to adapt the frequency filter that dicing feed you can choose.

It will be not mainstream or non-mainstream when our team will work on the growth of your CPM. So you can earn a traffic without any making additional efforts.

Speaker 1 (10m 53s): Okay. So I guess, I guess I should just be coming to etcetera then, right?

Speaker 3 (10m 59s): That should have been the answer. I guess that’s an easy one.

Speaker 1 (11m 3s): So are there any new ad units and opportunities that, that someone should explore right now?

Speaker 2 (11m 10s): Because digital advertising is the government increasingly saturated with every bus yet it’s getting harder to stand out and catch user side because people don’t love like selecting planned lists. They use some tags that block ads and so on. So we believe that interactive formats, which is not new, but there are some experiencing in this year, they experience in seeing a new spike of popularity because users like to be entertained.

They not only having great content, but to get some, like, to get some attention like quizzes or chatbots, it’s the, it’s the best way to get a good user experience. And these kinds of ads, they increase your CTR. And also the increase the time that people spent on the website and many companies last year, and this year already developed their own in the rate of performance that the, the, the tunes to entertain users like at stairs at the, like at the Sarah, we developed our social buyer, tiny new ad format.

Speaker 1 (12m 39s): Yeah. Okay. And we’ll be talking about that. I think in a little bit now, what ad formats do you think work best for promoting adult content?

Speaker 2 (12m 51s): As I mentioned, like, for example, social bar, it’s because it’s very new and it’s fully customized. You can, like, you can choose like around circle creatives, video chats. So res because of that, because it’s very flexible, you can promote a wide range of offers and it’s working great with adult sides. For example, you, as in the top of, in terms of volume since CR and we see great results in terms of cigar NCR.

So for example, social bar, it’s a great to add format to start with.

Speaker 1 (13m 37s): How did you guys come up with that? It does

Speaker 2 (13m 40s): Drive a lot different at pharma and the guy’s like what bullshit age is slowly coming to the end. So we understood it’s time to try some new format.

Speaker 1 (13m 54s): Okay. Okay. So you pretty much told me what social bar is, what makes it so favorable compared to other format

Speaker 2 (14m 4s): Because it’s new, there is no ad blinders effect and yeah. And ads can be really highly engaging for users and even beginners for desktop to understand affiliate marketing can get great results with this ad format we already have in our system already made template uploaded. And it’s really easy to create your own unique creatives, according to our template and AB test it’s really available in like in one campaign, you can test to 15 creatives at a time.

Yes. That’s a really great tends to test all the campaigns and get the best performing creatives for your complaint. Wow. Yeah. That’s amazing opportunity. And what I can mention, ah, the low cost per click is also, I think it’s advantage for launching this app and our tool can assist you in order to reach mutual profit gained experience.

And last year we did a lot AB test on social bar, so we’re ready to share our knowledge.

Speaker 1 (15m 37s): Okay. Okay. Well, I mean, I’m trying to get a picture of it, of social bar. What is it? And you know, this isn’t a V this is a video show. This was one of those instances where I’d like it to be an incident. Since my guest, since my guest is also a very pretty lady. So that, that wouldn’t hurt either, but one of these days I’ll I’ll make this video, but then they have to look at me. So I don’t know, but, but, okay. So I’m looking at social bar. What am I looking at? Kind of explain, you know, so

Speaker 2 (16m 7s): Display format for a month, like banner, but when banner, it can be only like just the square, social bark and B it can get any form like around, or like a notification, like our video bar and you can place it everywhere in any area of your website. So that’s why it’s very unique because for example, for binders, they always look on, on like the same way, web push notifications, web push notifications, they always look the same, but with social bar, you can choose any type of at, like, you can go today with servi or tomorrow, you can go with notifications and then so on.


Speaker 1 (17m 3s): Wow. Now, is there any, is there anything like this out on the market besides social

Speaker 2 (17m 7s): Bar? I don’t think so. Social bar is based on in page posts, but in page porch, as like, as web Bush stayed the same, it has only one design and can, can be changed. Yeah. So I think social vibrating, Nick. Okay. Okay. Now you, you know, you mentioned,

Speaker 1 (17m 27s): You mentioned pop unders and that is one of my pet peeves. You know, I, I have to do a lot, I have to do a lot of research for, for adult site broker. And I’m going to like multiple sites. When I go to close the tabs, I’ve got like 12 pop unders oh, traces me off. Especially like, like when I’m checking tubes out and things like that. And, and, you know, trying to find, trying to find the owners of these sites and, you know, to contact them and things like that. I mean, do you see that type of advertising kind of getting phased out or do you think it’s something that’s still going to be relevant?

Speaker 2 (18m 4s): I don’t think so. I like, we’re doing great with Paul Ponder’s deal. Yeah. And it can be annoying or whether you’re, for example, but we right. Tidy things and settings, it can bring you great results. Like a lot of our advertisers for happy and satisfied with the results the, to bring per ponder. So all does matter of like, how do you promote it and what kind of settings do you use?

Speaker 1 (18m 42s): Yeah. I just, I just wonder if that, if a cert at a certain point adds become just too irritating for people, if they’re just not going to be using ad blockers on everything,

Speaker 2 (18m 55s): That’s why we are trying some new. And we think like future at four months will be more personal and more engaged bringing like engagement with users.

Speaker 1 (19m 10s): Cool. Now, now we’re back to social bar. What makes it attractive, attractive to all kinds of users?

Speaker 2 (19m 17s): I feel like I mentioned before, like, it’s really easy to start and you can use pre-made to creatives and that helps you to get the best idea of what kind of creatives to use in your campaigns and hiring gauging ads. You can go with various types of forms of the ad, right. Advantages of using this social bar.

Speaker 1 (19m 48s): Okay. Okay. Now let’s say I have my own website. Okay. How can I use social bar to make money?

Speaker 2 (19m 56s): Or do you mean like by settings, what’s

Speaker 1 (20m 1s): The best, what’s the best way to use social bar? If I, if I want to use it to make money on my website.

Speaker 2 (20m 8s): So you just the copy the code and place it in the header on your side. That, and that’s all, that’s where your efforts and I mean, you still need to work on seal, check to users, do content, but everything related to advertising optimization, CPM growth is all taken by us. And like, for example, but if you have any suggestions for, for the settings, you can discuss this with your personal manager, for example, like you want to choose a certain place on the side or where social Barbie will appear, because we’ve got some recommendations, like do not close the login field or do not like stop, do not place it in somewhere where people have to interact with your site.

It shouldn’t and noise the user experience, or we can adjust the frequency or remove some certain offers from your feed. So it’s all possible just contact your personal manager and they will help you

Speaker 1 (21m 25s): Now, what are the best social bar settings in terms of frequency and location? I

Speaker 2 (21m 31s): Can say the best settings are default ones because our system will have to magically select the best location for your traffic. But I can say these knowing universal solution because each site each website is individual and has its own unique audience and design, but it’s like, like I said, do not bother the user’s navigation on your website, do not overlap any important parts in your website.

Right? So discuss it, did manager, they can share their thoughts. And again, like be the best in terms of user experience or intelligence, the learnings. So we suggest to start with the standard settings, and then you can just change the settings based on the recommendations of our team or by your experience. Okay.

Speaker 1 (22m 37s): You know, one question about working with you guys and working with social bar, as opposed to working with another network, what kind of results? And let’s talk both about advertisers and publishers here, what kind of results can I expect to see using you guys and social bar versus other networks?

Speaker 2 (22m 57s): We talk about display for months or just in general, right? I mean, I can compare the results of other ad networks. I can say just the results or it’s there, but I can say that for now, for example, the feed and social bar is it’s very various and quite we can offer you different types of verticals like mainstream or non-mainstream and different.

They got different confessions rates and different conversion flow. So it’s, it’s huge. And for publishers, that means that they, they will have different users that will engage with the creative and they will be not done. You get annoyed by the ads because there’ll be always something new. Okay,

Speaker 1 (23m 52s): Well maybe, maybe the better, better way would be to state the question this way. How are things working with social bar, as opposed to before you had social bar for both advertisers and publishers, how are, how are the results for both publishers and advertisers with social bar, as opposed to before social bar,

Speaker 2 (24m 17s): Before social bar we had in our inventory web push notifications before we had down recently a month ago, we’ve noted that the CTR increased like 25% more when we started to work with social bar. And that proves that yet that’s a lot. And that proves that users, they started to interact more with our ads.

They started to convert better. And our partners, advertisers, they noticed that not only like installed, but the metrics like installs to trials or two torches, they improved a lot. So we think it’s a great start for social work. Sounds

Speaker 1 (25m 11s): Fantastic. Sounds like quite an ingenious invention. Now, now, now how can I filter advertisers with social bar and pick the exact location for social bar on the website,

Speaker 2 (25m 25s): As per any ad format you can choose, what kind of ads will be displayed like mainstream or non-mainstream, it’s very important that it should be relevant to your website needs. It will be strange if you like on mainstream websites, you will promote them adult content. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so definitely you can filter advertisers and adjust location and social bar, but everything that you need to do with your account manager, they will help you.


Speaker 1 (26m 3s): Okay. Now what is frequency cap and how does that affect my CP?

Speaker 2 (26m 9s): I’d make like a frequency cap is the target that allows you to control the, how often your ads will be displayed on websites. Like more your ad. You show your ads on your website. The less CPM will be. Yeah. So the answer is yes. The more pops that you showed the less CPMs, but yes, pregnancy is one of the main aspects that affect CPM, but not forget about like, do your device, browser and traffic source and quality of traffic.

Right. So it’s all, like, there are a lot of factors that will affect PM. Like for example, volume of traffic also matters. Yeah. Like the higher traffic problem, if more chances that you will sell your traffic at higher rates.

Speaker 1 (27m 13s): Okay. Okay. Now, can I monetize my site with two ad networks? And how would that affect my CPM?

Speaker 2 (27m 22s): You can work with two ad networks or even more, but you should understand that it might affect your, your SPM in a bad way. But like for example, a network which is open in the second time might lower your ECPM. And sometime because you will have not like targets 1 24, but it will be always 2 24.

You will get twice more advertising shown and displayed on your side. And also the codes of different ad networks. They can conflict with each other, for example, like you really use to Pope popup coats and they might open at the same time and we’ll block each other. So users will not don’t get any ad instead of making like two impressions that would suck.

Speaker 3 (28m 28s): Yeah, definitely slack. So the Dylan in the

Speaker 2 (28m 33s): Long crown user experience will suffer. And I think it will be not great for your user experience in a lot

Speaker 1 (28m 41s): At all. So if I’m going to try different networks, it’s probably better to try them one at a time.

Speaker 2 (28m 47s): Yeah. That’s, that’s the best way to test different networks one by one,

Speaker 1 (28m 55s): But try you guys, but try you guys first, right?

Speaker 3 (28m 59s): I definitely, and then you want

Speaker 1 (29m 4s): To, yeah. Now we’ve all heard. Or we were talking before about banner blindness when the viewers and users become desensitized to the ads or even annoyed by them. How has this been considered and thought through with social media?

Speaker 2 (29m 22s): Well, it’s social buyers in you at four months and it will just literally didn’t get used to yeah. We working with the, like, we have five different templates, Chad bar in page push. It can be custom banner. It can be video bar or server bar. So as you see, the social bar has variable options. And even like, if user would visit your website several times per day, he would see, see different ads, like even different templates.

Yeah. Chad bar and then custom banner ads. So they might,

Speaker 1 (30m 6s): So they might see, so they might see two ads from the same person.

Speaker 2 (30m 9s): Yeah. They, they can see, but they will didn’t recognize. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30m 14s): Though it won’t be all the same ad I’m ignoring this. Yeah. There’s a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (30m 21s): Social also has like different effects, like floating or blinking and the attacks and attention a lot. So like, for example, you compare to banner is just it’s square and it’s just picture and social bar, it’s all blinking and floating. And, and though you just compare to it. Very, very interesting for me.

Speaker 3 (30m 46s): I’ll put my sunglasses, I’ll put,

Speaker 1 (30m 49s): I’ll put my, I’ll put my sunglasses on now. And I want, I want you to give me a demo of this too, by the way. Cause it sounds interesting now, where do you see ad trends headed for advertisers in the future?

Speaker 2 (31m 2s): Yeah. This year we see it an NC of not using mislead and creative and more working on exclusive content. Like we think that in 2021 digital advertising will become even more adaptive to individual, not taming for the law, for the pastor’s out, but building long-term promotion. And it will bring you really better metrics in terms of installs to trials and like, or gestation to purchase.

So yeah, better to work on that then like getting fuss to results, like getting all the installs that feel, not performed to child purchase. Right. And one thing that we noticed that Warren, why the Dodgers who work with VPN offers, they testing and scaling on adult traffic felt like keeping your privacy while browsing adult content. It’s very important for the user and our internal tests that prove it, but are not first show sometimes even higher Sierra on adult sites.

That, yeah, that’s pretty interesting. Yeah. So I assume that will be, there will be some exclusive offers from adult play sites because it’s obvious trend for now. And, and also it’s an additional source for income.

Speaker 1 (32m 36s): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I used to be, I go to these shows and it would be nothing but, but billing processors. Okay. Now I go to the shows, I think, you know where I’m going with this and it’s nothing but add people. How do you compete in such a crazy marketplace?

Speaker 2 (32m 57s): We’ve got our reputation, we’ve got our experience. And that helps us to offer more like we’ve got our director digitizers who worked with us for a long, a long time. Right. And we never stopped to do some internal updates to, to make performance of our partners better. And for example, like what we’ve created recently, it’s like custom beat.

It’s very, a great solution for our advertisers. They can custom be like beat higher or lower each placement in the same campaign. So they do not need to create any additional white listing campaigns. Like for example, you’ve got your S great sources that performing great, and you want to get more traffic from them before the forecast and beat, you had to create additional campaign and you had to check that performance on some, for, in other campaign, but now you can do it in, in same campaign.

Wow. Yeah. So I think these kind of things like they help us to stay in the leading positions.

Speaker 1 (34m 24s): Yeah. Stay ahead of the competition. That’s the key you got to keep, you got to keep innovating, especially, especially, especially in this, in this field. So, so how about the future of adult advertising? What do you think that looks like?

Speaker 2 (34m 40s): It’s hard to say because the digital advertising, like the forming and changing very fast, but what still matters, it’s important to one, enjoy the quality of your content. And you, you have to have something exclusive in your inventor because users are fed up and they’re really tired of go bad, or you need to be creative and chase uniqueness in order to attract like a, to, to, to remain attractive for users and increase the percent of your paying Adyen audience.

And it’s like, it’s important. Not only to attract users with your unique offers with discounts on your subscriptions, like providing bonus tokens, but also you need to use exclusive content for promotion, like yeah. Exclusive photos of webcam models on creatives or editing short video previews from bedside to video bars. So it will all increase like your user’s engagement and grease your CR.

So I think that’s better,

Speaker 1 (35m 56s): You know, one of the biggest problems, the last question I’m going to ask you the biggest, the biggest problem that I see with traffic these days, and I hear it from everybody who has an interest in buying traffic and that’s bought traffic. And I think the last statistic I saw was like, there’s more bot traffic in the world than real traffic. How do you guys combat this problem to make sure that your, your advertisers are, are going to get good, good results?

Speaker 2 (36m 33s): There’s the issue with bot traffic a lot. We know that because we’ve got our in-house and, and did she department, they do like they to the daily checking, manually check our traffic. We use our in-house solutions. We do, we use third party solutions. So we try to keep the quality of our traffic or high level.

So we do, we do it day by day. We monitored the quality of our traffic. Okay.

Speaker 1 (37m 10s): Beautiful. Well, I’ll tell you it’s important. It’s important. Well, I, yes. Well, I ain’t, I ain’t. I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adults’ site, broker talk, and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

Speaker 2 (37m 25s): Yes. And I hope we will meet.

Speaker 1 (37m 30s): Oh, I hope so. I hope so. I got a hug for you. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (37m 35s): Definitely see you. It was really great to talk to you. Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (37m 40s): My broker tip today is part two of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, keep your site design up to date, do a redesign from time to time, people will tend to think your site is the same as ever and click out of it without even looking if something doesn’t change. So keep it fresh and up to date times change. So should your website look at what your competitors are doing and see what it is you really like emulate success. If you know a site to be particularly successful, look at what it is they’re doing and do some of the same things.

I’m not saying copy it. I’m just suggesting you improve your site by looking around a bit, you’ve got to keep up with the times or you’ll end up being left behind. Also keep an eye on your competition and make sure you’re offering everything on your site that they are or more don’t just look at their design, but make sure your offers are good. And you’re the same goes for your content. Do you ever wonder why one site does well and others don’t check out the competition’s content. What are they doing? That you are not doing?

Be willing to make changes. People can’t understand why they’re losing sales to a competitor yet. The competitor is clearly doing everything better. Emulate success. Make sure everything on your site works well. Make sure all your links work properly. Check them on a regular basis. If things don’t work, you’re going to lose customers. People are not patient. These days. People’s attention spans are like that of a gnat. They click out immediately and go onto the next result in Google. If they don’t find what they’re looking for.

If the site is hard to navigate, or if things don’t work, check all of your internal scripts and plugins and make sure they’re updated regularly as well. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Nico from Traffic Fabric.

Speaker 0 (39m 34s): And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Aina Sivceva. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

Bruce: This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Neil Herrin of Vanilla Gaming.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re proud to offer for sale, a growing and stable European tube network. The sites went online over 10 years ago and the traffic has grown every year. All of the traffic is from SEO. No traffic has been purchased. This is a great opportunity for a potential buyer to add to the traffic immediately because of the high quality of the content targeted to German and Italian languages. Google has placed the website in good search positions.

There were over 600,000 hosted videos. Around 400,000 of them are uniquely titled. There were also about six months of videos already translated and ready to upload. So the new owner will have an easy transition. This is an opportunity for the buyer to get stable traffic and easily grow. If they put some effort into the new SEO techniques and by traffic only $595,000. Now time for this week, interview my guest today,

Speaker 1 (2m 28s): An adult type broker talk is Neil Herron of vanilla gaming company. Neil, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

Speaker 2 (2m 36s): Sure. Thanks Bruce. I appreciate you having me on

Speaker 1 (2m 38s): It’s my pleasure. And Neil cut his teeth in the beginning of his it career writing code for an ERP system. He described his first career position as a real life version of office space. After many years of programming, Neil switched over to networking and infrastructure design over the past 15 plus years of his career, Neil has gained a wealth of knowledge on both the and networking side of information systems. This combined with his lifelong love for gaming brought him to start the vanilla gaming company in 2020, the vanilla gaming company is currently developing vanilla beast ACE in the hole.

A hilarious mature themed action adventure game set to release in the fourth quarter of 2022 vanilla beast will leave your side’s hurting from the insane dialogue and comical situations. Take control of vanilla swab, secret agent, as he thought civilians by day and gets the hottest by night. Explore a massive living open world full of side quests, mini games secrets, and some of the hottest adult film stars, vanilla bees aced, and the whole combines retro style pixel art with a contemporary gameplay design, as well as paying tribute to some of the greatest games of all time.

The game is partnering with porn star platinum, bringing to the game. Some of the world’s most beautiful porn stars before we get started. I want to play part of an amazing version of the sticks classic kit lady that Neil is using to promote his game.

Speaker 3 (4m 16s): <inaudible> Neil.

Speaker 1 (5m 35s): That’s amazing. It sounds like you got the original band to do it. Of course, a few of the lyrics are different. Such as lady when you’re blown me, I’m smiling. And I usually smile when I’m getting blown. Give me all your head. My cock fills you up when I’m horny, blow me and my troubles all fade so high, like a cocoa ticketed whore. You’re my, of the whoring.

Speaker 2 (5m 59s): Hmm. Creative.

Speaker 1 (6m 0s): Now, did you write those lyrics?

Speaker 2 (6m 4s): Yes, I did actually. And I try to keep it as close to the actual lyrics as possible. We wanted to keep the true nature of it. Yeah. I wrote that and my vocalist sang it and he crushed it.

Speaker 1 (6m 15s): Oh my God, boy, Diddy. So tell me a little bit about your technical background and what got you into game development.

Speaker 2 (6m 23s): Sure. Well, as you mentioned there, I graduated earlier about 2005 ish and standard operating procedure for most Americans. Right? You grow up, you go to college and you get out in the real world and you start working and you live happily ever after. Right. So I had kind of gotten into the technical side of things, being in it, writing code programming, doing all that fun, that nine to five type of job, waking up every morning, getting into work instead of TPS reports and like office space had, I had crystal reports, right?

Yeah. Got to go through fun, all that and programming writing code. And then after about five years or so of that, I was laid off. I was still a low man on the totem pole there. And I got into the networking side of things and I got to see kind of the flip side of it because it is it’s, there’s a lot of things inside it, right? It is not just one thing. It’s programming, it’s coding, it’s database work, it’s networking, it’s firewalls and servers and all that good stuff. So I seen a little bit about everything and over the last 15 years or so, I kind of became, I guess, a Jack of all trades.

Right. Kind of touched on a little bit of everything within that whole it realm. And over that time span, you kind of find out about yourself, like, what am I good at when all I can join? And over time it just kinda got into like what I really want to do, like with myself at the end of the day, you know, before I’m gone and I leave this world, is this all I want to do? And the technical aspect of my background kind of got me into game development in a way of, I see what’s out there.

I know what other companies are doing. And I feel like I can do it also. Right. And you know, you take what you, what you know, and what you love. And, and that kinda got me into game development here in the last couple of years and working on this big project, started my own company and said, Hey, let’s do this. I’m not getting any younger Bruce. So I gotta get out there and gotta get this done before I’m I’m in the grave here. Oh my

Speaker 1 (8m 22s): God. You’re so young. Give me a break. I got almost a quarter century on you. Okay. So talk about the vanilla gaming company and how it came about.

Speaker 2 (8m 32s): Well, you know, for many years I seen how these major AAA game developers, they’re just dropping the ball. And that just me being honest with you, Bruce, I mean these massive companies, they have millions and millions and millions of dollars behind them and they can barely make a playable game. These days it’s mind blowing, like how terrible some of these games that are developed that are coming out with this massive fundings. I mean, take like the late eighties, pretty much all through the nineties, there was no internet. Right? Right. There’s a lot of people don’t understand.

There was a time before internet, the internet with did not come out with cavemen and work its way up through the centuries. Internet is still a fairly new thing. So what that meant for gaming and the eighties and the nineties is no patches, no updates, none of this let’s make a game as fast as we can and get it to the consumer so we can get their money and then we’ll patch it and make it playable later because that’s what they’re doing right now. I mean, it’s, it’s just a bunch of nonsense. I mean, you get these games that they spend seven years on making over a hundreds of millions of dollars and they come out on release date and you can’t even play the game because it’s, it’s so bad.

If things don’t work, it’s glitchy, it’s, it’s gotta, it needs to be patched. Everything’s broken. So, you know, back in the early Nintendo Genesis, PlayStation days, you know, a company they lived and died by their product on release day. That day one product when it came out as a cartridge, if you can remember back in those days, that was it. And that’s my mentality now and why I started a vanilla gaming company because we need to get back to that indie gaming development. It’s kind of a, it’s its own genre, right? There are so many passionate game developers out there and they just don’t get noticed.

Nobody knows that their games are out there because we’re not getting the big promotions. You know, we’re not sure if we don’t get to commercials on TV, right. But some of these indie game developers out there are, are, they’re extremely passionate. They, they know what they’re doing. They’re, they’re passionate and that it’s their life. Like they’re, they’re making this game because it’s their livelihood. It’s not just another game that’s going to drop in a few months and then hopefully it’ll do well. If not, who cares, we’ll move on and make another one. It’s not like that with, you know, with any game development. And, you know, I had an excellent game for an idea here, which is vanilla V sets in a hole.

And it’s been stern for like many, many years. And just kind of with the pandemic, creating more of a, a craze for in home entertainment, right. In with this idea that I’ve had, it just kind of came about that. Now it’s now, now, or never right now it’s time to put this plan in action. So I went ahead and started up the company a little over a year or so ago. Got licensing out of the way, you know, all the fun paperwork with all that comes in to start looking like, what, what can I do to put this together? And that’s kind of where, where we’re at right now, as far as the early stages of development, but just trying to get this product, that’s been out there for a long time, but do it right.

Do it the right way. Pretend that there is no internet. Right. Let’s get this thing right from the very, very beginning. Some

Speaker 1 (11m 31s): Days I wish there was no internet, no computers. Anyway, I agree. I agree. Hey man, I remember I was working in radio when they were, when they were just started offering fax machines. Okay. That’s how far back I go? So anyway. Yes, I’m old. Okay. So you’re currently working on, as you said, vanilla beast ACE in the hole, besides how I described it, tell me what the game’s all about.

Speaker 2 (11m 57s): Well, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a big parody is what it is. It’s humor. And especially just in the state that the world’s in and everything we’ve been going through. Humor is a good thing right now we need to laugh. Right? I think a lot of times, yeah. A lot of people, we take things seriously. We have to like, we have to stay afloat, you know, the doggy dog world and it kind of a thing with businesses and, and being cutthroat and all that. But at the same time, we can have fun too. We can laugh. Okay. And in games, at least for me, is supposed to be entertainment is supposed to be fun.

When I turn on a video game, I want, I wanna smile. I want to have a good time. Whether I’m playing with my friends with online multiplayer or from just sitting down to play a game with myself, it should be entertaining. Well, I do understand some people use it professionally, like, you know, the mat and tournaments and different e-sports and whatnot,

Speaker 1 (12m 48s): But that’s big. That’s big now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12m 50s): It’s still under 1% of the gaming population, the interest other millions and millions and millions are just casually playing. Right? So this game it’s taken what we’ve loved through the eighties and the nineties and two thousands, just all these different games that’s worked. They’ve had a working formula that’s made the game successful. So what I’m doing is taking certain aspects of those games and we’re making parodies just like movies. Do it, like remember a scary movie that made fun of the screams. And you know, you’ve always got these parodies and it’s usually done, I guess, books do it sometimes too in, in, in general media.

But it’s usually movies. I’ve not seen a lot of games. Don’t this? And I really don’t know why because, well, we’re, we’re,

Speaker 1 (13m 31s): We’re Dell Yankovic has done it for years with music. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (13m 35s): Exactly. Yeah. We, that was killing it with some, with music for the game. As you heard there with the ladies song, love it. And we’ve got many more of those to come. And even the intro is a casino Royale from James Bond intro where we, we parried the Chris Cornell song. So that’s exactly what we’re doing. So this game is all about having fun. As far as the story goes, vanilla beast is really an Americanized James Bond. So you’re going to play the role of the secret agent, right?

And he was a secret name, extraordinary, you know, living a dream suave secret agent who, as we mentioned, mentioned, they’re completely secret agents dating the hottest women in the world. And then as the game starts off, one mission changes all that. So this is a story and it does have a good story to it. And if I had to describe the script that I had written for it here, it would be Austin Powers meets black dynamite. Hmm action. A lot of action, but really funny, but not too over the top at the same time, some of it will be over at the top.

And here here’s an example. Have you seen the movie Deadpool? I have not, but I’ve heard about it. Okay. So in Deadpool, Ryan Reynolds is aware that he is a character in a movie and there’s an audience. He will actually talk to the audience. You know, sometimes the camera will stop and he’ll turn around and like, to just see what just happened, right. There was, this is what I had to deal with. You know, that kind of stuff, video games just don’t do that kind of thing. And that’s what we’ve, we’ve written and put into the game to where, you know, maybe if you die for the third time in the area and instead of just a normal desk screen and you know, want won game over and he’s like, can you want to maybe take the control or your little sister’s hands and play for real this time?

Like, you know, I mean, like, he’s going to make fun of you. Like, you know, it’s going to be one of the things like, hold on. Did he just talk to me and tell me that I’m like playing like a little girl? So those kinds of things are gonna happen. And a lot of mature humor in the game. I just, I don’t know. I think video games these days, they get a really bad rap on what they can do this face. It, these are not for kids anymore. I’m sure we grew up with that, but you know, the majority of gamers are adults and that’s what this game is, is made for. It’s going to be mature rated. So children won’t be playing the game.

Number one, but it’s not meant for them either. I mean, this is for adults that want to have a good time. And when they sit down, they, they’re not going to be treated like a kid. You know, we’re not going to hold their hand. And it’s, it’s a mature experience, no different to going through an R rated movie or, you know, reading a book or whatever that has things that you can relate to, that you’ve seen in life and you can laugh at. And that’s kind of what vanilla beast is. It’s, it’s gonna parody a lot of different facets from lots of different media, from memes to movies to shows to songs.

And the entire ride is just one big action adventure scenario after another. And a lot of really neat different types of retro style levels too.

Speaker 1 (16m 34s): Yeah. And you know, I’m not, I’m not a gamer, but you got me very interested in wanting to play this game already. So you’re, you’re doing your job. Definitely. Neil. Now tell me about the retro style game, playing variety levels.

Speaker 2 (16m 48s): What we’re doing is we’re taking what made so many great games. Great. It’s like what made a great game gate. Great. And then like, I know you said you’re not a gamer, but you’ve probably heard of Mario, right? Sure. You probably heard of zona. Like there’s some games that just stick out and they’re just they’re classics. Everybody knows them. And if you’ve never even played a game, so what we’ll do is we’ll how mature humor and exploration like classic leisure suit, Larry games. I used to love that series. It was made by Al Lowe and a Sierra games. It was called leisure suit. Larry. It was like kinda like a point and click PC series long time ago.

Let’s mature themes. I can remember. And this was, this was mainstream too. This was a while back, I guess in the nineties is when leisure suit li leisure suit Larry started. And at one point you’re trying to, you know, to have sex with a hooker, but Larry understood, well, hold on. If I have a condom, I’m probably gonna get in trouble. So you had to like literally point and click your way to find condoms. And then at one point he, I can’t remember exactly what it was, but I believe he grabbed like the wrong one and it, and that’s a game over right now, your condom busted start over.

So that kind of stuff, it’s like, we don’t see that anymore. It’s like what happened? What happened to where we were headed in the right direction with his type of comedy and style. And all of a sudden we got rid of, you know, w we’re going to come back on that. So there’s going to be a lot of things. And I’ve actually already reached out to Allo and I’ve spoken to him about maybe a cameo ex appearance or something along the lines of that. Cause that’s what I want to do. I’m not stealing anything from anybody I’m taking what made different games great. And just end it into the game. And you know, we’ll, we can touch on that as far as different types of genres and whatnot, but we’ve got like a great surfing level paying tribute to like TNC a surf design in California games from Nintendo golf, mini game things to take a break from the game within the game.

So you can go play golf like the old NES open tournament side, scrolling, BDM ups, like, you know, back in RK days when we still had those around people love games like double dragon and final fight where you can just, you know, it’s like, don’t, I don’t want to think anymore. I don’t want to use my brain and figure, I just want to walk across the screen and kick and punch her by, in the face and tell them to shut their mouth. So we kind of levels like that to real simple stuff. Real basic it’s the variety is massive. And then a lot of games, games are very linear. Usually even if they are OpenWorld, they get into these very, the games feel repetitive.

That’s one of the biggest gripes that I’ve always seen as a game or mine. I’ve been gaming since the eighties, I started off on an Atari 2,600, literally playing in like missile commandment with my dad and Frogger and that kind of stuff. So it was seeing how far gaming’s came. And a lot of times, Bruce, the game really gets in a rut because even though the level may be different, it looks and feels like the one you just got them playing the previous eight levels, right. And the game just gets boring. So another example of how we’re bringing like the retro gaming in is you may go through a level side scroll, and then you get to the balls and that balls fight will play like a street fighter or more combat, or you’ll actually go sideways, you know?

Right. And it’ll kind of, the game will kind of change and then, you know, fight and you have an actual control system of blocking in high punch, low punch kicks, special weapons, all that kind of stuff. And then on top of all that, and this is something indie games don’t usually do because they don’t really, I don’t want to put this average to say anything bad about the game indie gaming industry or excuse me, indie gaming genre, but they kind of, they kind of quit before they should. I think like, it’s, I understand people’s going to make money. Right. And some people, this is all there they’re getting.

So they kind of cut corners in a way. We don’t have the fun indie gaming traditionally does not have the funding until they either run a crowdfunding campaign and get funded or they go with a publisher. Right. So in the beginning, you’re kind of running this off your own out of your own bank account. And so the game suffers from that as it should. Right. That makes sense. And what they’ll do is they’ll quit before, like they’ll have this vision, but it won’t really hit that vision because of funding. So, you know, I’m saying I’m going to go the route of the crowdfunding here.

Right. And you know, if that doesn’t work, we can go round with a publisher, but you really want to use it as a last resort because publishers go want creative control sometimes in the beginning, or if they’re paying your salary, you know, they’re going to want to take over. And I just know my vision won’t be seen. So what I’m promising to do is this is going to get done and it’s going to be awesome. No matter what, it just will take a little longer. Yeah. It might take a little longer if I don’t get that upfront. But as far as the retro levels or whatnot, we’re actually going to have an open world. So you’re not, it’s just not going to be a game that goes through level.

Okay, I’m done with the level start the next one done with this. One’s starting to, it’s going to have an open road. You can run around and you can go to nightclubs. You can go to the strip clubs. You can go to the baseball game. You can head down to the park and play home, run Derby with little Jimmy that’s pitching on the mound. Just whatever you want to do. It’s going to have a lot of variety. And then the levels kind of happen as the story progresses. Right? I think that’s something that games are missing these days. Just the fun factor. Right. And you’ll be able to navigate around the actual levels and the activated or dropped in, so to speak.

So to speak like a flashback, like say, you know, you’re, you’re at the, the park there. And if you visited a couple of times, nothing really happens. You get to do whatever it is that you’re doing. I’m trying not to give too much away here. Right? Sure. And, but let’s say one time you visited because you’ve completed a level and maybe you’ve found this item. Well, now that that actually checks off and code behind the scenes there, that you’ve done everything you needed to do. So now something new is going to happen at a park. And maybe you’ll have a flashback where you’re telling, telling a little Timmy here about the time that you won the big football game in high school and what that’s about and teach them a life lesson and nothing is ever going to be, as it seems, I should say, it’s going to always be based off humor and comedy.

And just those moments where you look at it and you shake your hand said, hold on, did I just hear that right? Is that what he said?

Speaker 1 (22m 42s): That’s good. That’s good. Now the game is being largely built based on humor. Now talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (22m 49s): Humor is the name of the game here. Without a doubt. I’ve been making people laugh since grade school. I was actually took the class clown title in high school there for my class of 99. I know I’m dating myself there, but we did

Speaker 1 (23m 3s): Party. Oh, you’re not, no, you’re not 75 man. 75. Come on.

Speaker 2 (23m 10s): So yeah, I graduated there in 1999 and I can remember that’s always the only thing that was happening right. There was they played princess party, like it’s 1999, just over and over in high school. So I took class clown. Oh, that year proud of that. Right. And I even did scene up comedy Bruce for awhile. After that, with me living in the Midwest here in Cincinnati, Ohio, that it’s tough to do that. Right. You can’t really become a performer or any kind of

Speaker 1 (23m 33s): Stutter. It’s tough to do standup and survive then. Right. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (23m 39s): So, yeah. So, you know, I, I know humor I’ve been all around it. I’ve kind of seen that circuit a little bit, did some traveling and did a few things with comedy. And now as you know, comedy is very subjective, right? It’s very relative to the person receiving the humor. Right. Let’s face it. Funny is funny. I mean, there are some things that’s always going to be funny. You know, if it’s wintertime and I look at my window and I see somebody walking, they slip on ice and fall back and just get smashed. That’s hilarious. I’m going to laugh. It may not be right. But it’s funny. That’s the kind of stuff I want to see when I look out my window. Right. People falling on ice and you know, just take an example, look at the last Chappelle routine and how the critics crushed him.

I think on rotten tomatoes, or you got like what, a zero from critics, but a 98 from the audience. Yeah. It just, it blows me away. How subjective and how relative screw critics can be. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (24m 29s): FedEx. I’ve never, I’ve never been into, I’ve never been into what critics say. I, some of the movies that I’ve enjoyed the most are the ones that got the, the, the worst reviews. So

Speaker 2 (24m 40s): Yeah, you’re, you’re a hundred percent correct. And that was the point I was about to make is that this game, that’s what we’re going for. And I don’t care. Like I really don’t care how, because let’s face it. When we bring in the adult industry into this and mature themes and everything, I’m going to be shut down by a lot of places right off the bat. They’re just not going to want to deal with the game. That’s just the nature of it. But am I going to lose money for that? Probably. But am I going to also sacrifice my vision and what I’m trying to make because of that? No, but that’s what a lot of people do, Bruce, you know,

Speaker 1 (25m 11s): They sell out exactly.

Speaker 2 (25m 13s): And the humor is going to be mature. It’s going to be even raunchy at times, but it’s, here’s the thing. Here’s the key it’s well thought out and calculated. Okay. Not just a bunch of random poopy jokes, right. Or, you know, just saying what we want to say. There’s no, I’m not trying to shock anybody. It’s 20, 21 here. We’re not really shocking anybody with anything. We’ve all seen it, done it all, but the game actually takes a form of narration. Like you don’t normally see and you know, the actual game, character, vanilla, vanilla bean full name, there he’ll be talking to the game.

Or like I mentioned a little earlier and he understands he’s in a video game like Ryan Reynolds did in Deadpool. So, you know, there’s and the game is making fun of itself. It doesn’t want to take anything serious example, Anna, Claire clouds. I’m sure you’re probably familiar with her. Right. So she’s actually in the very beginning of the game, like the opening scene is vanilla and Anna Clara clouds on a speed boat going into the evil cause casino, Velano island. Cause you’re on, you’re on a mission.

Right? So you speed up on that and they have a whole little funny dialogue of what’s going on and they get off the beach there. And Anna, Claire is like, oh, this is so cool. You know, I’m here with you and everything. And she’s, she asked a question along the lines of, so are you just going to like waltz right in the front door? You know, and be the man, are you going to like sneak up in the back door and then see that, how that sets up that Joe perfectly he’s like, well, you know, you know, and tell her what’s going on. He’s like, but speaking to backdoor, wait, here, we’ll celebrate. When I back, you know, that kind of stuff, but he’d just make a backdoor joke, simple stuff like that.

You just don’t normally see in a game. But at the same time, it’s well calculated. Sure. And the game will actually, and I think the very first time, you know, he references Anna, he says, well, thank you, legendary adult film, star, and Claire clouds. Like he points out who he’s talking to to let the reader number or the, the gamer know exactly who she is. Number one, but at the same time it’s so over the top and the way that you would never say that, like if you’re talking to somebody you’re not going to give, spell out their full title, but the game does things like that multiple times, just even in the opening act to let you know that the game is very aware that it’s a game and it’s very well aware that we’re just here to have a good time.

Like, don’t take

Speaker 1 (27m 27s): That. Let’s do seriously. Sure, sure. Now who exactly is the game made? Well, that’s

Speaker 2 (27m 32s): A good question. So obviously number one, it’s mature individuals. The game will be rated mature. Now the ESR B, which is that fun company who rates all the games and, and different types of media across the board, you know, they give it that every one rating or a mature rating or adults rating, this will be mature, guaranteed, no matter. I mean, they were nowhere near getting that rated, but that’s what it’s going to be. I will be staying away from an adult rating because when you get the adult rating, you’re not allowed to go in consoles.

So that will smash millions of people getting a chance to play this game. And it’s not always about money. I’m sure. Would I lose money from that? Of course. But more importantly, I’m going to lose people to be able to experience this game. So I don’t want to do anything. That’s going to keep it off Xbox or keep it off a PlayStation. Right? Okay. So we’re going from mature rating now, but really, as far as who is going to enjoy this game and who were making this Ford scammers that are just tired of, of growing crops and little simulators and walking around, you know, playing these little cute G games and with puppies and unicorns and rainbows, you know, there there’s a game run out there.

And I know because I’ve been around this for a very long time and we’re just tired of the bait and switch deal to from these AAA companies. You know, I’m not gonna mention any names and games, but there’s a game that came up. Go ahead. No, well, no, like I said, I’m not here to put anybody down, but they, I absolutely love, okay. I’ll tell you what I’ll say this. I love the Witcher series. The Witcher three, very mature, great game, loved them so well put together. And then they had a project that they spent. I think it was $123 million, I believe is the number I read to make a video game.

Okay. To make a video game, Bruce, $123 million. Over seven years, it came out. It was unplayable. Like it was so bad. Sony refunded everybody’s money with no questions asked and they ripped it off the store and said, we’re not even selling this anymore. How does that happen?

Speaker 1 (29m 30s): Right. I don’t know too many, too many cooks in the broth. I don’t know

Speaker 2 (29m 35s): Exactly. So how does that happen? So we’re just tired of that kind of stuff, you know? And, and here’s the thing that whole time, while this going on for many year, you were able to pre-order so what does that mean? They’re making probably millions and sitting back, you know, and for sure and chilling on the beach when they should’ve been making his game. Right. I mean like what’s going on here? So this is for players, that’s ready for an engaging story. Good game. Play mechanics, not going to break on you and nonstop laughter while you’re having fun with some of the hottest and coolest women, the adult film histories ever seen that’s tagging along for you for the ride, which is something that not hardly any game ever.

Speaker 1 (30m 12s): Sure, sure. Now you brought that up. You decided to bring the adult film industry into the game. Why is that this

Speaker 2 (30m 19s): Game in the game character it’s well, let me say this. So vanilla beast is it’s partly myself and me kind of telling my story through a game and it’s in a way of it’s it’s all based on true fictional events. Okay. Right. Price of what? Meaning

Speaker 1 (30m 39s): Yes, yes, yes I did actually.

Speaker 2 (30m 43s): So it’s all based on true fictional events. And what that means is, was that real maybe was that false and fiction? Maybe it could have been, I could have actually done this in my life and embellished a bit, or I could have never touched this and took this from a movie you’ll never know. That’s the beauty of this and the adult film industry. It’s such a fun industry. It’s an industry. And you don’t need me to tell you this, your listeners don’t need me to say this, but it’s something everybody loves, but nobody wants to talk about right. You know, I mean, so many people have grown up with certain actresses over the years. And I mean, you know, just back from when things were getting started on DVDs, remember them back in the days you had to go out.

And like, for me in Cincinnati, the hustler store was a really big store. I can, I can remember getting my hands on that. Pamela Anderson tape back in the day, VHS. I mean, that was the coolest thing ever right there, back in the nineties. Right. We didn’t have the internet and all that. Right. And so now everything’s so readily available. It’s I still feel like when it comes to gaming and in some forms of media, the adult industry is still in the dark ages. Nothing good that had done. It’s the powers that be, that are out there that saying you can’t do that. You’re less than this. And I just don’t believe in that.

So once again, kind of like a, as I spoke about earlier, it’s not always about money and this could actually bring more money to the game, but it could also hurt me too. And I realized that with reviews and bloggers, and maybe I won’t get an IGN because they’re just a, we can’t put that on our site, but you know what, screw them. It doesn’t really matter to me because this industry has been a part of my life. Just like you has been part of other peoples. And it’s fun. This game is about being fun. This game is about having a good time and okay. For a power up.

Would you rather jump on a little block and the ground shaking the guy’s over, right? Or would you rather have Jana Michael’s dropped down on a parachute with two AK 40 sevens and wipe out the entire screen, shooting guns with their titties, bouncing all around. That’s what I want to say. Right. I would much rather have that

Speaker 1 (32m 38s): Kind of get back to you on that. No, I’m just kidding.

Speaker 2 (32m 39s): Yeah. You know what I mean? It’s just like things that just haven’t been done right. Is what we’re trying to do. And the adult film industry just, it adds a whole nother layer of creativity that I can bring to the game and a whole nother layer of, wow, I’m actually playing this right now that you’re just not going to experience it

Speaker 1 (32m 57s): Right now. There haven’t been a lot of adult entertainers in games traditionally. Why do you think that is

Speaker 2 (33m 3s): Right? And I mean, a little bit, like I alluded to there, I think that a lot of developers and publishers and, and the powers that be are just afraid. I think they’re scared. I mean, you look at how stern and what he’s done over his career and how controversial that he had to be just to get to where he is now. And it’s the same, it’s the same thing in gaming he

Speaker 1 (33m 23s): Had to get, he had to get thrown off the air a few times. I’m sure. I’m sure you saw private parts.

Speaker 2 (33m 29s): Of course, of course. Yeah. And even before that, you know, I listened to Howard stern and all that before, you know, fun fact about myself here, I’ll never forget nine 11. I was listening to Howard stern working. I was actually doing like landscaping for a company. This was, you know, obviously a long time ago now I’ll never forget how great of a job Howard stern did. He stayed on the air. He was supposed to go up, but he stayed on to get that information about what was going on with nine 11. And he, that was some of the best I’ve ever heard of anybody ever on the radio, how he handled that situation.

Speaker 1 (34m 2s): He’s a pro he’s a pro I mean, that’s, that’s the bottom line is he’s a pro I don’t know. Dunno. I don’t know if you saw the interview he did with Anderson Cooper. I don’t, I’m trying to think. I think Anderson Cooper was interviewing him and it was phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (34m 17s): Yeah. And the guys at class act, but because of the material he did well, he’s some slime ball, you know, he’s oh yeah. You know, no, that’s not the way it works. I mean, that’s what you can think, but that’s just not the truth. Right. So bringing the adult film industry into this game, I understand I’m going to be criticized and there’s going to be a few things against me because of that. But at the end of the day, I get to do what I want to do. And what I think is going to be best for the game, for this product that I’m making. And it’s all about the gamers and what we’ve not experienced, what we want to experience.

You know, I, like I said, I’ve been known as for a very long time and you just don’t normally see this. And I wanted to incorporate this into the game because it just, if it’s not your style, that’s fine. Don’t play the game. I have no problems. I will, you know, I’m not the type of person that gets upset when I see something I don’t like and tells other people not to do it too. Sure. I do live in America and it is a free country still. And, and if I don’t like something, I just shut my mouth and I don’t do it. Right. It should be the same thing with, with movies and gaming and books and media. Right. And that’s right.

Even though it’s not always the case, I’m still gonna subscribe to that personally. So, you know, I’m putting this into the game. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. And it’s something that I think that at the end of the day, when, when the game replays is game, could we get through without this year, I could definitely make this game without it, but I don’t want to, I want to have these legendary women in the game and it’s all positive too. And there’s, you know, it’s all fun. It’s all PO it’s, it’s using them in ways that, like I said, power ups and different types of situations where they come into play and, and Claire just being in, just making a cameo in the beginning of the game and, and just to provide some comic relief as soon as it starts so that you know that the second this game starts, I’m on a speed boat with an amazing adult film actress, and we’re making jokes and I’ve not played the game for 15 seconds so far.


Speaker 1 (36m 9s): Yup. Exactly. Hey, you never know Howard. Mike don’t want to interview you about it. I would not be surprised in the least. I’m sure it’s crossed your mind too. So why did you partner with a porn star platinum on this

Speaker 2 (36m 24s): Last year when I started really putting this together and you know, say, okay, how, what do I want to do? I got to have a game plan. We’re not gonna, you know, I don’t do anything in life. If anything people will say about me is that I’m very analytical, very logical. And I guess that’s the it part of me, right? I mean, I’ve kind of been in it in infrastructure and technologies, most of my life in binary, right. One ones and zeros. So I came up with a plan of how do I want to tackle this? And I reached out to some different companies. I see, I did my research.

I on some of the people that were behind the companies, who would, I want to work with, who do I think would see this things through? And what else should I go? So I reach out to some people and a funny story about actually bringing the center of the game, the way that we did and partnering up with, with porn star platinum, is that I’m here. I guess the best way to say this is, I like to be respected, just like a respect other people, especially in business. Right? I mean, like if I start calling you a bunch of names right now, you’re going to end this, right. That’s just not how you do business.

So it’s, and, and here’s the thing when I’m, I understand I’m the underdog here, right? When I’m reaching out to these massive adult film studios, they don’t know me. I know they don’t know me and they don’t have to spend me any time of day at all. So I was really looking for someone who was going to approach me interested. Number one. Okay. I hear your little pitch here. What do you got? This sounds fun. Right. And as you’re thinking about this, so Dan got back to me really quick, you know, Dan from foreign star platinum, and

Speaker 1 (37m 56s): Then, oh, Dan hook, great. Former, a former of former guest on adult side broker talk, actually.

Speaker 2 (38m 4s): Right. And Dan’s a great guy and he responded really quickly to me. But since it had the porn was in the name of his email address there, it went to my spam and I didn’t catch it. So yeah, here’s me being an idiot now. Right. So here I am, the big it guy that always tells everybody else what they’re doing wrong and just fix it. Right. Right. Well, so weeks go by and I’m talking with some other people. And then I just go ahead, let me check the spam. And I seen Dan had got back and I felt like such an idiot. I’m like, are you kidding me? Then I haven’t checked my spam.

And like two weeks happens so much here. And Dan got back and said, Hey, you know, he was interested in and everything. And he wanted to speak with me in it. And I was like, oh man, what a goofy, what is, what’s wrong with me? Right. That’s such a rookie mistake, but you know, that’s like, you know, Derek Jeter out there, you know, after playing for 15 years out there and not understanding to look at the third base coach. Right. And make sure that there’s any science going on. Right. You just don’t do that. Right. And so, yeah, I came back to Dan and I apologize. First thing I’m doing was telling the guy, I’m sorry, this is a real good start as me apologizing him for being a goof.

And we got to talking, and as you mentioned, Dan, Dan’s a really good guy. He seemed interested in it. He, he didn’t, he wasn’t treating us, even though this is obviously business, it’s a hundred percent business. He, he didn’t treat it in a way of, okay, this is what’s going to happen. And if you want to work with us, these are the rules. You know what I mean? He didn’t come at me like that at all. He’s like, let’s talk, let’s just see what’s going on. Real laid back. Real cool. Similar to myself. And, and I had done my research on him and, you know, I, I knew, and I know things about him right now. He doesn’t even know. I know, like in being a bears fan and different things, I did my research.

I just, I wanted to know about the people that I was dealing with. Right. Sure. And I’m like, man, well, he’s number one. He’s a bears fan. So he’s seen a lot of grief over the years. Oh my God. Oh my God has this. Guy’s resilient. He’s a bears fan. Oh yeah. But you know, this little things like that. And just over a couple of conversations, we had porn star platinum itself is it’s a jug or not industry. I mean, he said some of the most talented and amazing women in industry ever come through his network on his network now, you know, been a part of it a year.

He seemed like a good guy. He was willing to work with me. And, and we, through our conversations, it’s just like, you know what? This seems like a really good match. And you know, I am, I am the type of guy that, where you never just want to necessarily jump on the first thing. Right. That you see. But at the same time, if you don’t, it’ll be gone, you know, and I had already been doing my research and I was in talks with other places that have said, no, this is, this is awesome. I really liked Dan. I like what, he’s what he stands for here. And I like a porn star platinum. And I said, yeah, let’s go ahead and let’s do this.

And that was, I was gung ho from, from the moment, you know, right there, right. From the point that I knew that he was legitimately interested in the game and what was going on. And, and we spoke about different maybe promotions we could do and what he can do to help out and this and that. And I was like, yeah, man, let’s, let’s go for it. This will be all. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41m 2s): Now, how are you going to use your partnership with a porn star, platinum and adult entertainer licenses? So

Speaker 2 (41m 9s): I know you said you’re not a gamer and that’s, that’s totally fine. Bruce. There was a game that two K produced called mafia. It was a series. They had three games, really good games. And they started all the way back on a PlayStation two era. So a long time ago, a couple of decades ago. Yeah. And the game mafia or the series, I should say, I loved it. It was a lot of fun, your gangsters. So, you know, you were playing a, you know, a gangster that comes out. He comes back from the war and a lot of stuff’s changed and it’s the fifties, right.

You know, rock and roll is happening. And you’re driving around like Richie and Fonz and whatnot back in the day. And one of the neat things this game did, and like I said, I’m not stealing anything. I’m talking openly about this. Cause I’m not stealing. If you got a good idea, you got a good idea. That’s awesome. I’m going to use it too in my own way. So what does mafia game did? They had a license with Playboy. So as you would be working through the levels or in the open world, you would find a magazine, you pick that magazine up, you click the button and boom, you get like maybe miss December, 1955 full centerfold.

And that’s a really neat way to do that. No games done that before or since. And I was like, well, you know what, that’s one way we can do the actual photo shoots. So we’re going to keep it classy. Like there’s going to the game, we’ll have any hardcore sex or anything like that in it. Because like I said, that would get us an adult reading and boom, we’re off consoles. I mean, they won’t deal with me. Right. So, I mean, but you look at the beginning of all the photo shoots, they start on that kind of soft core way. You know, the girl kind of smiling at ya and maybe starting to take their clothes off. Right. And then they get topless and then nude and then the action happens.

Right? Well, we can go all the way up to that until the action happens. And these can be unlockables you find out through the level, the very first thing, when you get on the beach, when the game starts, there is a secret hidden on the top right corner. And this is going to be part of the demo. And like I alluded to earlier about the game, understanding the game. Well, I understand people’s not going to know that at least not right away. So I’ll give you this first one for you for free. So as you walk to the left, it’ll trigger, oh, they’re getting close to kind of moving on.

Right? So the game stops and vanilla talks to the gamer. He says, huh? You know what? I think I seen a crack on a wall on the right side of the beach. We should maybe go back and check on that. Right. So that lets them know, oh, hold on. I’m about to miss something right away. He’s talking to me and you go back and you look for the crack in the wall. And the crack is literally like a booty crack drawn up on the wall. So you’re looking for a crack in wall. They’ve told me is like the game is, it looks so good. Like it’s beautiful. It’s so appealing to the eye. You just wouldn’t expect them to be saying this stuff he’s saying and doing the stuff he throwing.

Cause it does look so neat. So what we’re going to do is bring these, these adult film stars into the game in ways that you could use, like I mentioned earlier as a power up, maybe have one parachute down. And if we got to a level where vanillas, you know, given a flashback and tell him about how, what he did in Vietnam, even though technically I would have been before he was even born. That’s what kind of, part of the humor of this too. So telling a story about, you know, the Charlies and the trees and this and that, you know, we can have, you know, even Nadi or Giana, whoever dropped down and, you know, to be able to wipe out the screen with AK 40 sevens and then some of them will be in the game as far as progressing the story to maybe you talk with them, they get information.

And it just, it’s a neat way to incorporate these girls in the game that would never be in a game. And really when you get in a game and it kind of the mortalized as you, not that they’re not already, cause you know, a lot of these girls are, you know, when you look at Sophie Dee and her empire and what she’s doing right now, you know, and everything, does she need this? No, but she’s part a part of the porn star platinum network. So you better believe she’s in the game, right? I mean like, you know, we have the youth, we will do that and you know, kind of part of this and Dan, Dan is a very busy man, as you know, I mean, Dan has doing so much and I really appreciate the help that Dan’s put out there.

And I’m trying to, you know, to talk with him when I can about, Hey, can you put me in touch with this person connect? Can I, you know, and he, he has so much that he can do it. And he is a very popular man. But at the same time, I’m trying to do some of my only work here and, and, and reach out. And anybody that wants to be a part of this game, any of the actresses that was like, oh, this is so neat. I would love to be part of this game. That’s what I’m trying to do, you know, get them in the game.

Speaker 1 (45m 29s): So now what are you doing to ensure the success assess of the game? Not

Speaker 2 (45m 33s): Only have I done my research on what makes games work, I’ve been playing games for 30 plus years here, the company, everything, all the paperwork is taken care of. We brought in porn star platinum. That is, that’s a huge powerhouse right. Of, of content right there. But I’m talking with the audience and that’s something, a lot of the bigger companies just don’t do. If you was to jump on a game forum right now and you get to where they’re talking about the negatives of game, what don’t they like, they, they feel like they’re ignored. I’m not making this game for myself.

I’m not making this game just for you or one person. You got to think in a broader scope. And that’s difficult to do because probably get this wrong. But I believe the saying goes, if you try to please everyone, you please no one, right? If you heard that before. And so I, I understand, I can’t make a game that everybody’s gonna, like, I totally get that. But at the same time, I got to listen to what the gamer wants. So I’ve set up through some different modes here, different avenues to let them play a demo early, get their feedback.

What do you like about the game? What don’t you like? What’s working. What’s not working. And I don’t mean like, are you, are you going to walk through a wall and get stuck? Obviously that should never be there, but more. So what do you think about this content? What, you know, how does this type of getting from point a to point B worked for you? And it’s just something that you just don’t see in a lot of these games, these indie games that are so successful and they really launched companies, they launch careers. They, they, they are so successful is because they listen. They, they want to know, it’s not, it’s funny because some games are the opposite.

They just want to make the game. They want to make, they release it. And they’re okay. I’m done. Thank you for your money. I appreciate that someone I’m doing it all. And that’s a fact of life, unfortunately. So I’m doing the total opposite of that. It’s like, let’s make this game together. Of course, you know, the, the creative brains behind it. And I’m the one hiring all the programmers and the animators and the vocalist and composer. Right. You know, I mean, you’ve got all these different, although the difficult task of getting everybody working together and on task and making sure the job’s getting done, but at the same time, the gamer is the one that’s going to play the game and they’re going to be the judge jury, all right there at the end of the day.

So I I’m trying to reach out on forums on discords anywhere that anybody will listen. And, and it would be interested in the game to play it for free check the demo out, which will be fully done here soon and, and get that out there and get feedback and make an awesome game together with the community. And that’s where the kind of Kickstarter campaign is going to come in pretty big on that front too, who can

Speaker 1 (48m 9s): Access the demo so well

Speaker 2 (48m 11s): That’s right now, that’s going to be closed. It may be open public. Well, the demo eventually will be open publicly. So let me word it this way. Right now, the demo is kind of like an alpha, like a closed alpha build, right. So I can get feedback about the game. And then it will turn into an actual demo where it’ll be free on steam for anybody in the world. And you don’t need to pay to have a steam account, which is how you game on PC, right? So are you to the entire world once we get to that point, the closed alpha is really for me to get out to publishers, to bloggers, to reviewers so that they can start talking about the game and getting it out there.

And then also, so I can get feedback from specific people that are going to play the game that I know will give me an honest opinion of what’s going on with it. And

Speaker 1 (48m 56s): I’m sure that’ll hurt. That’ll help. I don’t want her to we’ll help the Kickstarter campaign. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Speaker 2 (49m 3s): Right? So the Kickstarter campaign, that’s, it’s tricky and you know, to be honest with you, Bruce, it’s scary and I’ve kind of always, I always live my life and, and I’m not saying that everybody should do this because you know, also we live our lives own way, but, and maybe a lot of people will think I shouldn’t be this way, but if I didn’t think I could win something, I wouldn’t do it. Right. Like, I don’t know. I’ve always been a big competitor. I mean, I was quarterback of the football team, captain of the baseball team. I played basketball. I’m six, three. So back in, you know, back in the day that was tall, not so much nowadays.

Right. But I was really being into sports, very competitive. And I would, I would go the route to where if I thought I might lose, I’ll make some funny way not to do it or write, you know, joke my way out of the situation or whatever, and just kind of get by with life. So Kickstarter’s is very scary to me because I really have no idea how this is going to happen. I have done so much research about what successful campaigns have done in the past, what failed campaigns has done in the past. Say, and just to let you know a little bit about what Kickstarter is, Damien has not always been on Kickstarter.

That’s actually something that’s been newer in the last, I don’t know. I think maybe five to 10 years, they’ve added within the last decade and it’s for anything. So you go and Kickstarter, you launch a campaign and you say, Hey, my goal is just to make this simple. Say my goal is $10,000. If I get $10,000, this is the product you’re going to get. And in S for pledges, right? You can have rewards within those pledges. Like, okay, if you donate five bucks, this is what you get. You donate 20, you get this, you’re doing a hundred, you can have this, you know, and it’s tech. You maybe have an invention. You, you created something.

You just like, you know, like shark tank, right, right. They go on shark tank because they need that funding to really get their invention off and running Kickstarters the same way. Right. And the trick to it is, so let’s say you said that $10,000 goal and you run it for 30 days or 60, almost a hundred percent of all successful funded Kickstarters for 30 days. That’s just the magic number. So let’s you set this $10,000 goal. You run it for 30 days. Let’s say you’re on day 29. It’s almost over. And you get 8,000 of that.

10, if you don’t hit 10,000, you lose it all, all $8,000 of that goes back to the person who pledged. Right? So exactly. It’s a big risk because now you’re branded a failure. If you fail on this, everybody can always come back and say, why are you coming to me as a publisher? You couldn’t even do this through crowd or the, you know, there’s, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a tricky situation, but if you hit it, then you keep that money. Right. And if your goal is something larger to get this going, like, you know, $250,000 to get this game going, when you hit that goal, that is your money to, to keep it.

You have all the promises, you made all the pledges with the different reward tiers. And now you just got to make the game and back it up. But if you don’t hit that number, like, you know, if your goal is 250,000 and you make 150,000 of that, that’s still plenty of money. That’s good. But you don’t get any of that when it is, if you don’t actually hit your goal all or nothing. Wow. Wow. It is all or nothing.

Speaker 1 (52m 7s): Do you have a release date for vanilla based

Speaker 2 (52m 10s): Route right now? And this is obviously subject to change, but we’re looking at quarter four of 20, 22 games. Usually take a few years to make that no matter what, what the game is. I mean the little mobile game doesn’t really count. Right. But anything that’s major like this that’s releasing on, on PC and trying to port over to console is going to take a few years. I’ve been working on it since last year. Funding has to do with a lot of this. If we get funded early and we knocked that out, I can put more programmers on the game where we can get this done. If not, as I mentioned earlier, I’m not going to sacrifice quality because the funding may or may not be there.

It’s just going to take me longer to get what I want to get out

Speaker 1 (52m 47s): There. Sure, sure. Well, Hey Neil, I’d like to thank you again for being our guest on adults who broker talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to hear about your progress on a, on a later podcast.

Speaker 2 (52m 59s): Sure. I appreciate it. I appreciate you having me on here, Bruce. Thank you. My

Speaker 0 (53m 3s): Broker tip today has to do with what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, this will be a multi-part series first to make sure you’re converting as much of your traffic as possible. Traffic’s expensive. Whether it’s search engine, traffic, review, site, traffic, or affiliate traffic, you paid a lot for it. So make sure that when someone lands on your site, you give them every opportunity possible to either spend money or do whatever it is that you want your visitors to do. In the case of a pay site, make sure your billing options allow as many people as possible to buy, have multiple ways to pay in north America.

Most everyone has a credit card, but in other parts of the world credit cards, aren’t used nearly as much in Europe. For instance, credit card usage is low. So look for billing options that will match the areas where your traffic comes from. And Europe, ACH and debit cards are used a lot in Africa and other developing parts of the world. Many people pay by mobile, do your homework and find out how people pay in the regions you get. Most of your traffic it’ll make you more money. The worst thing you can do is get a visitor, have them want to buy, but since you don’t have their preferred way to pay, they can’t.

And if you’re looking for suggestions, feel free to get in touch with me via my website. Along with this as to improve your user experience, make your site attractive and easy to navigate. People have more options than ever these days. I can’t tell you how many sites I go to. Even some that are owned by large companies, where the navigation isn’t obvious to the user, you poke around the site for what seems like an eternity to do something that should be relatively easy. Keep it simple.

Before you launch any changes to your site, ask your friends to go to the site and check it out. Unfortunately, designers and tech geeks don’t think like us. You need real people to look at your site for you. The same kind of people who will be visiting your site next, make a good offer. If you’re selling something and the offer, isn’t good. You’re not going to make money. It’s plain simple as that. And if your offer is to contact you or get more information that make the offer attractive and easy to understand, if you’re selling something, make buying easy, show them an easy way to buy and then leave, help them by making suggestions on what to buy. is the best at this. They always have suggestions on what to buy based on your buying and browsing history. They use AI to do this. There are AI engines available these days at a modest cost. Look into this. If you can, don’t clutter up your site with unnecessary items, buttons, and images. Keep it as simple as possible. The best and most successful sites are the simple ones. The ones that lead you to take the action you’d like them to do. It’s not that hard.

Just remember when you’re putting together any site, try to think through the buying process, like a human being, whatever you do, don’t turn over that process to your designer or developer. Don’t just say, build me a website. What you’ll get out the other end will not give you what it is. You’re looking for. Give them as much direction as possible and make it easy for them to build a site for you that makes your business succeed. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Tina of Adsterra. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Neil Herrin of Vanilla Gaming. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Matthew Bennett, the English Leathermaster.

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One quick note, starting this coming Saturday and running through July 5th is the TES affiliate conference in Marbella.

0 (1m 33s):
Spain. The show is the first hybrid TES conference with both live and virtual attendees and events. I’ll be doing a presentation on the ins and outs of buying and selling adult websites on Friday at 5:00 PM. Spanish time, virtual registration is free. Go to T E S affiliate to register. And I’ll see you there. Now. Let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at adult site broker, we’re offering a rapidly growing hair, shaving site. The site shows women getting their head shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it’s much easier to promote than most adult sites.

0 (2m 13s):
The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they’re getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There is a sister site that has a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation. It handles the billing and rebilling user information and video displays. There’s also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales. The first month alone, there’s no paid advertising. They go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos, and other social media.

0 (2m 56s):
The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. The site has a lot of room to grow with little, a little more time and investment. There is a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars. There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview,

1 (3m 32s):
I guess today on the adult side, broker talk is Matthew Bennett, the English leather master Matthew. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

2 (3m 41s):
Thank you so much for having me here.

1 (3m 43s):
It’s a pleasure. Now let’s tell everyone about you. Matthew Bennett is an international coach Federation certified coach. He goes over 250 hours of experience coaching people from all walks of life. His background is in international education, assessment, business development, sales, and leadership. Now Matthew started coaching to empower those who society leaves on the sidelines. Namely mem members of the LGBTQ plus community and Kiki community and sex workers. He truly believes that people who live more integrated lives can become more successful and fulfilled. And Matthew is trained and presented in over 13 countries across Europe and Asia.

1 (4m 27s):
We were just talking about the fact that he at one time lived here in Thailand. So we went back and forth on that a little bit. Off-air he managed multi-million pound projects and led teams of people and a range of organizations. His book mastering life has been downloaded hundreds of times and his webinar series mastering life shorts continues to draw in people who want to learn more about integrating life and work. He now divides his time between online coaching training and running his incredibly successful only fans page consistently ranking as one of the top only fans creators. This success has only happened by treating online content creation as a startup business, applying good practices and brand development, planning, development, sales, and marketing.

1 (5m 14s):
So basically he practices what he preaches now, English leather master coaching is one of the only spaces where anyone, no matter what their story can go to develop every part of their lives and businesses and allows people who are LGBTQ plus kinky or sex workers to access the highest quality accredited life business, and executive coaching by giving people a fully judgment, free, confidential, safe space to explore their vision for success and the route to get there. People who have been marginalized can now become fully integrated and more successful. So Matthew, sorry. That’s all we have time for today.

3 (5m 56s):
Tell us

1 (5m 57s):
More you and where you’re based. I kind of get the impression based on the name of your company and your accent that it might be the UK.

2 (6m 8s):
Well, I actually started this company in Thailand. I was working that just before the pandemic and then came back to the UK for a, for a funeral and then got stuck as, as we all know that, that the world is very different. But the nice thing about what I do is I work online. So I’m stuck in the UK at the moment in the future, who knows. I’ve been talking to my partner over, over the last few months about what happens next, you know, one school reopens, wherever they go. And the nice thing is to say is just like you, you can, you can work with a microphone and a, and an internet connection anywhere. So it’s, it’s lovely.

2 (6m 49s):
It is. And I’m looking forward to, to being able to make those choices

1 (6m 52s):
Again. Okay. Well tell me more about you. Yeah, so, I mean, you’ve said quite a lot of it.

2 (7m 0s):
It rolled a stumble to it when only because I was working in Thailand for, for an education company and I was made redundant, they, they had re reorganization of the company and I thought I was going to be working with leaders in international schools actually. And I thought, well, I’ll allow coaching into my, my portfolio of things, of consulting this. I would be able to do with them and really got the coaching bug. And then alongside that. So I’ve been working on, you know, I’d done a bit of online domming and things like that for, for, for, for a number of years. And I realized that actually, I, I wanted to integrate the parts of my life and I wanted to work in a much more open way about who I am and what I do.

2 (7m 51s):
And it all came together in one and allowed me to get to the point in the time. Now I started a slightly explicit Twitter account, knowing that, that, you know, sex sells and to get, to get some attention. And that then led to, to the only funds, which then led to, to what I’m doing now, where I opened up the outer belts industry, met lots of people in the adult industry and realized that there’s this whole world out there that people don’t really know with all these people working really hard in this same way that, you know, a donut shop or a juice bar would be doing to try and improve that the businesses it’s happening in the industry.

2 (8m 36s):
And I really wanted to work with people through that. And that’s where I am now. So I put out loads of content. I try to be very open about what I’m into very, very excited by what people other people are into and at the same time, making some money the way, and then helping other people do the thing.

1 (8m 58s):
Awesome. Now who exactly is English Leatherman?

2 (9m 3s):
It’s I suppose it’s, it’s it’s me plus it’s I am a lifestyle Dom. I, my partner is also my boy that’s obviously I wouldn’t necessarily put out the part of me that sits there in front of soppy movies and, and Kels up in bowls with, with hot chocolate. So I’m not going to be making videos about that. And on the other side of the things, I wouldn’t be making videos about the stuff that gets you band of porn sites. So English or the monster is my online persona. It’s it’s. I try to be very authentic in what I do.

2 (9m 45s):
Uncheck show people what, what they can well, good dominance in, in the gay world looks like, and in a world where lots of porn is, it feels very inauthentic. The stuff that’s shoved in your face, on the front page of the eclipse sites. I try to be very open about that. You can be in a relationship that can be healthy. You can do very, very bad things to people and enjoy it. You can be, you can put parts of your body and parts of your sexuality out there that people can get very excited about, but still be you and still be real.

2 (10m 26s):
So that’s, that’s English at the masters is that part of me. And I, I, I very much enjoy sharing that with the world. Sure.

1 (10m 35s):
Now tell us a bit about what you do and what your journey to getting here is.

2 (10m 41s):
So, as I say, I think it started when I was working in, in Thailand and it started noticing that I naturally found a way through increasing my, my reach with my followers on Twitter and Instagram and all of those places, which then led to, to the only fans and, and more, more recently just for fans, but also realizing that it’s not just about putting everything out there. It’s about working out who you are and what you do and what you will do, what you won’t to, what you’re willing to share, what you’re not willing to share it, creating a voice and a personality and a tone about who you are.

2 (11m 34s):
And I realized that what I was doing was I was building a business. I was building a brand that was the master brand. So English, the master will do certain things. He won’t do certain things. And I realized that I could use my skills from coaching in, in helping other people in that. So by doing that, a lot of the people I coach are, you know, business exacts, who just happened to need some stress relief at home, and don’t quite understand how they can integrate the fact that they like being spanked with the fact that they also a CEO of a company or people who every now and then they’ll drop in the fact that they’re in a poly relationship.

2 (12m 20s):
And that’s problematic for making decisions about what to do next in their lives. So by being really open what’s, I’ve allowed myself to do is to follow those, those people to where they are and say, you know what, I’ve done, almost everything you’ve you’ve ever done. So you can tell me everything and then we can get on with the rest of our lives and planning your, your best, best future.

1 (12m 43s):
And it almost sounds like a lot of psychology goes in,

2 (12m 47s):
But yeah, I mean, there’s a huge amount of psychology. I’m also a hypnotherapist. So, and sort of hypnotic methods within some of my coaching as well. And all of that goes into it where the brain is, you know, if someone is in, if someone is fearful of the future, if something is really worrying them, then they can’t be future-focused. So a good example moments is what the sorts of things that are happening to some of the sites with the payment processes mean that lots of creators and people working on those sites have the think very, very carefully about what they put out, but because they’re so fearful of losing their income streams, then that makes it more difficult to be able to step back and go, okay, how can we plan given this, this massive challenge coming ahead.

2 (13m 43s):
So, so yeah, there’s some massive psychology in that.

1 (13m 46s):
Now let’s talk about the term coaching and I’ve heard it bandied about a lot. Obviously your form of coaching is a little bit different than most, but what exactly is coaching? I mean, what is it in, I know what it is in sports. Okay. Obviously, but tell us more about the coaching you do.

2 (14m 7s):
Yeah. Well, so first of all, my, my, the coaching I do is, is no different to, to many, many coaches. I mean, one of the problems with coaching is it’s non-regulated so you’ll get someone who’s done a, you know, three hour Udemy course calling themselves a coach. Yeah. But the, the form of coaching that’s hard to do if you, it started actually with, with tennis back in the seventies, I think it was in seventies when someone realized that, instead of saying the way to hold the tennis racket is this, and then you move your hand like this, and then you have to follow their movements exactly.

2 (14m 50s):
In states you to the person, okay, hold the tennis racket the way you feel, then I’m going to throw ball and then hit the ball. Now, try it a different way. Now, what works for you? And you sort of, you build on the feeling within the person. So instead of directing a person saying, this is the way, right. You say, okay, listen to your own body. So the type of coaching that’s I would do is I would say, I wouldn’t say to someone, you know, if, if I had a sex worker come to me and say, I want to start my own just a fan site, I wouldn’t say right. Well, you have to look like this and you have to wear these clothes and all the rest of it, I would say, okay, who do you want to be? Who do you want to attract? What, what really gets you off and get them tease those answers out of them.

2 (15m 36s):
And likewise, you know, someone came to me and said, I’ve got this massive, massive sites, and I want to increase my, my reach. And then we would, I wouldn’t say, this is my thoughts. It’s very much about saying, okay, you have mentioned 15 times this thing in the last half hour, and this happens a lot. What does that word mean to you? Keep saying that word and just reflecting back because people don’t really know what’s in their heads and there’s just so many things going on in their head. Sometimes you just need to have someone sit back and listen to you, talk, and then go, there’s the threat here. And, and we keep coming back.

2 (16m 17s):
And one of the nice things about what I do is I’ll have clients who will, who will just talk about their, their business lives, their home lives, that their family lives. And then I’ll get you realize it’s the thread about, you know, feeling disconnected from people. What are you going to do about that? So why, why is connection so important? And then by reflecting back, people get into a much more focused area. Likewise, you know, I’ve worked with, I worked with one, one sex worker who was, yeah. She was a girl living in Atlanta.

2 (16m 57s):
She had a choice between working in the juice bar or becoming a pro Dom. And I was like, okay, where do you want to go? What do you want to do with this? What is it about your life that allows you to do this? And instead of having a binary choice, suddenly she had many, many choices ahead of her. She was going beyond that binary choice into what, what do you want to be? Who do you want to be? And, and how is that going to help you move forward in your life?

1 (17m 29s):
So it’s, it’s a really all about asking the right questions and then listening.

2 (17m 35s):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I’m doing a lots of shutting up, which is something I take very, very naturally. I have to say

1 (17m 41s):
Me, me either. You know, I was talking, I was talking to my attorney, Chad yesterday and I said the very same thing to him. You know, we, we had something that I was concerned about contractually and how it affected my business. And I ended up answering the whole question just by, just by talking to him and him listening. And he said, well, you came up with the answer, didn’t you? It sounds

2 (18m 11s):
Like he’s a coach. That’s exactly what coaching is about. He doesn’t,

1 (18m 14s):
He doesn’t know. Yeah. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. He’s a coach, but he absolutely is. But I think a good term, a good attorney will have those I’m sure.

2 (18m 25s):
Not every now and then a good attorney and a good coach will go, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re about to walk into a minefield. Don’t do that. But you know that once you, you said that you say, okay, which way do you want to go and schedule? He

1 (18m 37s):
Didn’t even say that. I said it that’s, that’s the great part. Yeah. He he’s educated me. Well, now you talk about, you talk about coaching, smart, sexy people. Now, first of all, what does that mean? And I mean, am I smart and sexy?

2 (18m 51s):
You are very smart and you’re very sexy. You don’t really, you don’t really know me. I’ve listened to enough of your podcast. You’re the ones by sexy. Let’s start with that by, by sexy. I mean, people who their gender or their sexuality is part of the story. So whether they are a trans, one of my clients was a transsexual female to male man who was working in, in a sales job in London. And he wanted to move countries.

2 (19m 33s):
But because of his status, his gender status, there were more barriers to that movement than, than for you, for your average person. So it was, you know, I didn’t need to talk about his, his transition. That was nothing to do as me or anything. It was just a piece of information that was always there in the background. Likewise, for, for someone who’s working in another, in the adult industry, your you’re talking about the business and you could be a cake shop, or you could be an online bookseller, or you could be selling online adult content. And there’s just a few extra bits and pieces in that that you have to be aware of in order to, to move forward and by being so that’s the sexy thing.

2 (20m 19s):
It’s, it’s just that gender or sexuality is important in this story and transfer smart. I like working with people who have got a brain, obviously, but also th th th they’ve they’re doing it with some sense of knowledge of who and what they are. Some sort of sense of self-awareness. And I think you have to be quite smart, do that. You’re not just falling into, into what you’re doing, because I mean, people, people end up where they are because they, they ended up where they are. It’s at that point, they can step up and say, okay, now I need to move forward.

2 (21m 1s):
So that’s, that’s what smart, sexy people are.

1 (21m 4s):
Yeah. You, you mentioned transsexuals. We don’t know anything about them here in, in Thailand. Now you wrote a book mastering life. Now tell me what it’s all about.

2 (21m 15s):
Yeah. So I read that actually a year ago. I need to get back and check it over. It’s in somebody’s website, you can download it for free. Let the most it’s it’s. What I noticed was that all self-help books are incredibly, you know, they’ll very happily say my wife, my husband, I go to church every Sunday and they’re very SIS hetro, monogamous, and, and sex doesn’t exist every night, especially if you’re a Republican, you have exactly that will be written by, by members of

3 (21m 58s):
The charity

2 (22m 1s):
Or by, you know, SAS soldiers or by cricketers or something. Very, very, very mainstream. So what I tried to do was I tried to bring together all the sort of advice I’d read in lots of different areas in business, and then in life coaching and put it all together, but with a bit of a bent on, in, in particular LGBT plus or kinky people and saying, okay, when you’re using the CPT, try and build. So that’s cognitive behavioral therapy, not coping bulldozer when you’re using the CBT triangle, then what does that mean? If you’re talking about a Dom sub relationship, for example, or if you’re thinking about drama or in the relationship, how does a vary if you happen to be in a poly relationship?

2 (22m 50s):
So it’s just trying to be a bit more open and so people can read it and go, oh yeah, that’s me. Rather than I don’t resonate with this, this person who goes to church in our console every Sunday, God

1 (23m 8s):
W what would people in the adult industry get from? COVID

2 (23m 12s):
The ability to, well, I mean, it’s ultimately, it’s the same as anyone would get in any industry. It gives them a space to look at what they want from, from their business and to move forwards. It gives, it gives them a next step perspective that allows them to find their best way to do anything that they want. So to fund water, to first of all, to define what success means for you, and then to move forwards and find the ways of achieving that success. And then in the adult industry, where there’s a lot of stuff that’s in your, literally in your face, but it’s very difficult to see how you can find your niche, whatever you’re doing, whether you’re you’re running a website, or whether you’re, you know, a single content creator with an iPhone, it’s trying to find your niche and find your audience and find the best way of marketing your niece, your audience, making sure that everything that is there in your, in your business is leading you to where you want to go.

2 (24m 23s):
And it may be that, you know, you’re, you’re a creator who wants to get out of the business within three years, having made enough money to buy a house, or it may be that you’re trying to buy up one of the major porn sites. It doesn’t really matter. All of those things are valid, but sometimes it’s difficult to get someone to sit by you. I mean, you, you were talking about your attorney, you, you must be able to talk to your attorney about what you do, and you have to be really careful sometimes in finding the people who won’t sit back and judge you for that. So it’s, it’s a minefield. And so finding a coach who is happy for you to, so yeah, I get my, my, my wobbly bits out on, on camera and make loads of money is, is important.

1 (25m 14s):
Yeah. It’s gotta be nonjudgmental, especially in the adult industry though. Yeah. Now, what have you learned from being in the adult industry?

2 (25m 24s):
One of the things I’ve learned the most is how hard people work. It’s, you know, everyone thinks that you can set up a camera and just spread your legs and, and show everything and, and, and you’ll have people running into you. And it’s just not the case. It’s also the, you can very easily be pulls down routes that you look back and think, I really wish I hadn’t done that because you have done that upfront thinking about what, what do I want to do? What don’t I want to do is very important. And whether that’s, you know, showing a particular part of your body or showing your face or using your name, or including acts that you’re not into you, you, you’re not happy about, or by, by showing a persona that gives the wrong impression.

2 (26m 21s):
That means that if an 18 year old came to you and said, oh, I did this because I saw you doing it on camera. And you think, actually, that’s not what I wanted. So it’s, it’s about planning, but people have to really work hard to get that. And so you can get really wound up into an marketplace that you have to get more out, bigger, stronger, faster, whatever it is. And actually sometimes being bad. I mean, listen, I’m in my forties. I’m not particularly timed at all. My I’m quite average in most ways I’m doing well, but that’s because I found my niche, but it took me some time and huge amounts of work.

2 (27m 7s):
And I’ve got huge amounts of respect for people who worked very hard for where they get whatever they’re doing. And I think it starts that real hard work that no one sees.

1 (27m 20s):
Yeah. Well, what people don’t realize who aren’t in our industry is that sex work, and it’s going to sound like a cliche, but sex work is work.

2 (27m 30s):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and if you’re

1 (27m 34s):
Not in this industry, you don’t get it.

2 (27m 37s):
No, no. You th you think that those videos you see of, of, you know, a couple checking on, on the, on their bed, I’ve done without any thoughts. And what you have to remember is the amount of preparation and, and, and, and setting everything up and then the editing and then the uploading, and then the getting it out there that that’s there. And it, the amount of work to get to that place is important. Absolutely. And, and it takes lots of time and effort. And then also within that, the fact, I mean, I do a lot of my scenes with my boy, and we have to be really careful to have a distinction between this is when the camera’s on, and this is when the camera’s off and then make sure that we don’t just say, you know, we got off rocks off together with the cameras on.

2 (28m 22s):
We, we don’t need to touch each other. Again, you, you have to remain in that relationship. In, in, in, in my case, working with people outside relationship, then there’s all of those issues around legalities and paperwork and tests and all the things that you have to think about.

1 (28m 43s):
Sorry, I would imagine a lot of couples who do what you do. I would imagine it can be very damaging to a relationship.

2 (28m 51s):
Yeah. Yeah. You have to be really careful, I think, to, to make sure that you, you keep the relationship. And, you know, when, when my boys said to me a few, a few months ago, you know, we only seem to do this on camera. I had to sit back and go, okay, we need to change something here to make sure that, that our relationship is more important than, than my business coaching the coach.

1 (29m 20s):
What do you enjoy the most about working with people in this industry?

2 (29m 25s):
Yeah. Well, I love, people’s really weird fetishes. I love personally. So this is, this is as a content creator. I love making custom videos because I love people who go, you know what? I want you to be my stepdad, who’s into balloons while stepping on, on jelly babies, or let’s do this. So it’s, it’s the creativity I get from that. What I love from the people I’ve worked with is just that passion about what they do and the death, especially that the people who have been at it for a while, their understanding of themselves, because I don’t think you last very long, if you don’t get who you are and you don’t sort of take that.

2 (30m 21s):
And, but obviously a teacher I used to go into, to school in, in the UK, the teachers are very formal in that the kids are in uniform and I used to be Mr. Bennett in school. And to some extent, that’s what I do now. I make that the master, but I’m on camera and I’m, I’m, I’m Matthew and I’m not. And I noticed that a lot in that the people really work to have their persona and their who they are in two different places. And that takes some time and some efforts, especially when it is literally all encompassing you’re, you’re using your body.

2 (31m 3s):
So I’ve, I’ve loved working with people who are very aware of that.

1 (31m 8s):
I just love the people in this industry, just the people and their passion and their love. I mean, this is like, this is the, I’ve said it many times on this, on this podcast. This is my,

2 (31m 20s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve heard that many times as well. And you know, I’m fairly new in the industry. Haven’t shopped in. Finally, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve had my toe in the water for a long time, but people are very, I’ve, I’ve been amazed at how open people are. The barriers for entry are low. People are very open to, to people, people who come in and say, you know, well, I want to be part of this. And I I’ve loved

1 (31m 51s):
That. Everybody loves new members of our club. There’s no two ways about it. And I, it doesn’t sound like you’ve been in it long enough with the pandemic to really do the shows, but, you know, you’ll have, you’ll have to go to events once they actually start up in person again. Cause that’s the best part. That’s the best part of this. Yeah.

2 (32m 12s):
I’ve, I’ve, I’ve been involved in a couple of the online versions of the, of the in-person shows and I’ve really enjoyed those. Yeah. That’s

1 (32m 20s):
Not even close though. You know, you’re not, you don’t have the hugs. I don’t know if we’ll have the hugs now, but you don’t, you don’t have the hugs. You don’t have the, the comradery, you know, it’s, it’s when this thing’s over, man, it’s going to be crazy. Cause we everybody’s going to be so glad to see each other, you know, it’s going to be, it’s going to be, oh, it’s going to be so nice. I’m I’m shooting for a T E S in September, but we’ll see what happens, you know, I’m, I’m pretty sure that’s going to happen. So that, that’s a good thing in Prague. Now you’ve managed to grow your social media following and fan sites really fast. Now, what advice would you give to someone trying to do the same?

2 (33m 4s):
So again, it, first of all, you have to decide what your definition of success is. So what do you want and why do you want to, do you need 10,000 followers to do the thing you want to do? The people that are obsessed with with very specific numbers, it could be that actually what you need is, is one follow-up who is a billionaire. Who’s very happy to have you and said that their only client they’re only content producer. Right? So after that, I think it’s about authenticity. It’s about really being the person that you want to be.

2 (33m 45s):
Obviously you don’t have to put everything out there. And for most people that would be a very, very bad idea, but it’s, it’s by being the people who don’t last very long and the people who are just, they’re just a faulty part and they are interchangeable with anyone else, anyone else’s body part. And so by, by being more of a whole person I think is, is important. And then it’s about following again, you know, in exactly the same way. But if you were running a clothing shop, you, you put in the loads of clothes that you think might sell that you like.

2 (34m 27s):
And then you notice that certain, certain brands, certain ranges sell really well. So you start following that and you become that thing. So I I’ve got certain, certain fetishes that whenever I put a video up huge amounts of people join my only fans. But funny enough, they’re not necessarily ones that are necessarily into. So I have to then make a decision about whether I want to be the person who tells that thing or whether I just want to keep that in the mix, keep those people happy, but the stuff that I want to do up as well, and it’s so it’s, it’s very much about market following the market, listens to yours.

2 (35m 7s):
You’re watching the, the, the, the lights in a much more analytic way than just saying, oh, look, that’s got, that’s got 500 lights. Then, then I feel good about myself. It’s like, well, why did that get 500 likes or 5,000 likes or whatever it is. Yeah.

1 (35m 26s):
Sounds like, kind of like the goal with your coaching. It’s all about what makes you happy. Right? Well,

2 (35m 32s):
Otherwise, why are you doing anything exactly that ultimately there are far easier ways to make money than, than in this industry. Because if you, if you can go and work in a dead end job working nine to five, and you can, you can close your computer at five o’clock and leave and never think about it again. Don’t worry about the fact that, you know, if someone found that you were working for dead-ends accountants next year, that, that the, the, they, they wouldn’t give you a job. This, this industry is not the place to be. And if, if you want to, if you’re worried about that, or if it’s, if you are worried about that and there’s ways of, of dealing with it.

2 (36m 14s):
So it’s got to make you happy. And if it doesn’t, then, then, then get out of the kitchen.

1 (36m 19s):
You know, you talked a little bit about coaching and goals. What’s the best way to set a goal for your, your life as a content producer.

2 (36m 32s):
I th the, the, the best way of setting a goal for anything in fact, is by thinking about you in X number of years, for some people that will be like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a common first, first coaching session question. When, when you retire, first of all, how will you be if we’re allowed to retire and what will you look back over your, your, your career and say I’ve done, or it could be in, in where are you trying to go with this? What’s you trying to get what you want to feel by the age of 35 or 55 or 95, what you want to have. And therefore, so instead of getting stuck in the mire of, I don’t want to get in an intro and a, a logo and a, had a boob job.

2 (37m 22s):
You, you think about Archie, what I want is I want to be living in this sort of a house or having this sort of lifestyle. And then what you can think is if I’m doing you find getting my boob joke, will that get me to that lifestyle or that she is going to hinder me because by getting the big boobs, therefore I’ll be seen as this person. And therefore I won’t get that. So it’s, it’s questioning the assumptions of the today by looking at tomorrow,

1 (37m 50s):
Just to let you know, the Thai women loved my boobs. So I think I’m going to, I think I’m going to be okay. Yeah. I always get the, I always get that comment. So, so can you, can you give examples of how you’ve worked with people in the adult industry?

2 (38m 6s):
Yeah, so, I mean, I mentioned before the, the, the, the, the sex worker in, in, in Georgia, in the USA, and she, she literally had a choice between working at some juice bar or becoming a dominatrix, but she was living at home and she was, she was very much doing it because she was trying to work out a way of paying her way through college. So we were trying to work together, finding her niche on finding her, her own mind, her online persona, which also was an in-person persona in her case, trying to work out how she could, how she could maximize the benefits at the time.

2 (38m 52s):
So she couldn’t make contents at home, for example. Sure. She was then able, as she had to pay to go to an Airbnb or a hotel room, and then in, she was, she was very much line, how can you, for that a hundred dollars that you’ve spent on, on going there and getting that room? How can you maximize content? You’ll get out of that. So it was very, very tight with her. There was another one who I worked with who was, again, an in-person sex worker in this case. And she, she had chosen at the age of 30 or so to move from a marketing job to being a, an in person sex work.

2 (39m 36s):
Yeah. And so she, she, by having that choice, he was, she was in a very different space. And we were talking about what a website would look like and what her marketing would look like and what she was going to accept she would do. And once you wouldn’t, and she was living in the country where they have agencies for these people, and she had to, she, she had done a couple of these gigs where she was literally puts in a hotel room and then men turned up every hour on the hour thing. And she, yeah, she was not impressed by that. How can I, how could she get out of that system and, and develop her own, you know, customer list.

2 (40m 19s):
So she didn’t have to deal, deal with that sort of stuff, but that was about marketing and, and about also accepting when to say no, in her case and with, with some people it’s been about the plan for, yeah. I’m, I’m enjoying this now, but so I know that my body will give up in, in two or five or 10 years, therefore, what’s the, what’s the next step.

1 (40m 46s):
Do you find as a content creator yourself, the content creators are drawn to you as a coach?

2 (40m 53s):
Yeah. I think one of the nice things, one, one of the issues with coaching is that it’s very difficult to show success as a coach, because obviously everything in the same way that a therapist, you don’t, you don’t put too many, you don’t have recordings of your therapy sessions on the line with many sorts of coaching. It’s difficult to see all of my clients, but you can see what I’ve done and you can see where I’ve, I’ve created stuff, and you can see the success I’ve made for myself and therefore other people come to me and say, yeah, look, I’ve, I’ve seen what you do. And therefore, I sometimes like, you know, can you teach me how to do what you do?

2 (41m 35s):
And I said, no, I can’t.

1 (41m 38s):
Yeah. And you’re not me. Yeah. Yeah,

2 (41m 40s):
Exactly. And you don’t have the same drivers as I do. You don’t have the same enjoyment of certain things that I do, whether that’s an issue of a physical thing. One of the things I love doing is I love that living at a camera, other people would absolutely hates doing that, need to write scripts. I can’t stand scripts. So, you know, th th the way people work will always be different, but they can see that I have done what I’ve done. And, and I’ve, I’ve been successful in what I’m doing. Yes, you’re right. That draws people.

1 (42m 15s):
Now, Matthew, how can people learn more about you?

2 (42m 18s):
So go to my website, English, leather, And then, then if you, if you sort of poke around on my website, then you’ll, you’ll see some of my, my webinars, my book, and more information, and you can get in touch with me there. Or you can follow me on Twitter at Elm coaching for the, for the safe work stuff and English at English level M for the non-safe work.

1 (42m 47s):
Fantastic. Well, I’m looking forward to reading that book. I was going to, I was going to buy it, see you lost a sale.

3 (42m 53s):
Okay. Matthew, go ahead.

2 (42m 56s):
Being stuffed. I’d love to love giving stuff to the community because I love it. So it’s out there for everyone.

1 (43m 3s):
I agree with you. I’d do the same Matthew. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult site, broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon. I’m

2 (43m 12s):
Really looking forward to it. And I’m, I’m after a hug. When I meet you in person Monday

1 (43m 17s):
Soon, indeed. Today

0 (43m 19s):
Is part seven of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the agreement and escrow. So now you own the website. What do you do? Now? The first thing you should do is make sure you understand everything about the operation of the site. The previous owner will hopefully be available for a period of time to help you with this. As I mentioned last week, you should establish what the former owners participation will be after the sale, you’ll need to deal with production of new content processing, paying affiliates, and many other things. If you don’t have experience in these things, you may want to consider our general consulting firm, adult business consulting. You can get more information on what this company does and adult business

0 (44m 4s):
We help website owners, project managing guide them to the right vendors. Maybe the previous owner had all the right elements, processing, hosting, payments, production, scripts, et cetera, or maybe they didn’t. We can help evaluate that for you and save you some money. Let us know if we can help. Anyway, you’ll now be operating the website. If you don’t have someone like our general consulting company to help evaluate all of these things and everything, the site is spending money on and using to operate the website, make sure you’re getting a good deal. And that these companies are providing the right service and check to see if you can do better. Hosting is a great example on something where people are often both overpaying and not getting the right service.

0 (44m 49s):
Many times the server is just too slow. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to reach out to us on our website next week. We’ll talk about how to sell a website. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Matthew Bennett, the English Leathermaster. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Heather Montgomery of Pleaze Me.

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1 (2m 43s):
My guest today on adult say broker talk is Heather Montgomery. She is the founder and CEO of please me. And let me spell that out. P L E a Z E M E. Heather. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk.

2 (2m 59s):
Oh my God. So wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.

1 (3m 1s):
It’s nice to have you. Now I’m going to tell people a little bit about you. Heather created please me to challenge the status quo as it relates to the way people treat sex in life, as well as in society, especially for women, she longed for a fun, sexy place to explore and expand her sexual desires without a backlash in her personal and public life. As a single woman, she didn’t find it. Montgomery’s concept of please me as a tool, tailored to one sexual interest desires and needs latent with diverse resources. Heather has been an entrepreneur and marketing professional for much of her career. Had there previously consulted medical businesses on integrating health and wellness, nutritionals novel, and advanced testing medical devices and cellular therapies.

1 (3m 49s):
In early 2019, Heather became the host of please meet face-to-face series intimate interviews with the innovators and educators of sexual wellness and pleasure. You can find her on Twitter at H C Montgomery 2 0 1. So Heather, how has online censorship effected users of social media and businesses in the adult industry?

2 (4m 15s):
Boy, Bruce, how hasn’t it? I mean, every day we’re hearing more and more stories about people that are losing their channels completely. They’re getting just deleted. And of course they’re censoring their content by either removing posts completely and saying it’s sexual solicitation, which we got for putting a meme up about the Australian kiss and, and, and in a bathing suit in one picture, you know, a one piece bathing suit, we got re you know, deleted because they said it was sexual solicitation, which is just ridiculous. But more importantly, I think what people really need to pay attention to is that how many followers do you have and how many of those followers are actually seeing your posts?

2 (5m 0s):
Because when we dial it back, even our own followers are only getting to see two to 3% of them are seeing our posts. So how is that happening? Right? Why are they not seeing our posts? So why

1 (5m 15s):
Posts, you know,

2 (5m 17s):
Like why posts? We stopped posting on Instagram, unless it’s like a big holiday, or we have an interview that we’re letting everybody know is now live, that’s it? What do we do about that? Well, I mean, it really, it really depends on your business model as, as far as where are you advertising and marketing? I mean, right now they’re, they’re the big player, right? Everybody wants to be able to advertise and market on Instagram, but unfortunately we can’t advertise there either. They won’t take our advertising dollar. So you really have to be creative. I would say, make every best effort that you can to get your email list out of your followers.

2 (5m 59s):
Meaning number one, you have a way to contact them. If God forbid, they do decide to cut you off. And then, you know, obviously please We designed that to celebrate sexuality and to be a social media platform where people could be able to interact. And when I say people, I mean, users who are learning and want to know about sex and sexuality, and they have anonymity now. Right. So, which is great because even if I did like, somebody’s content on Facebook or Instagram, that was about sexual nature, I probably wasn’t going to share it. Yeah. Right. Cause grandma was watching.

2 (6m 39s):
And so when my kids and my niece curious, right. And so we see very little social sharing in our

1 (6m 46s):
Industry. Wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. Your grandma isn’t on, please. Me.

2 (6m 50s):
No, she is. She may, she’s a hundred, but I mean, she doesn’t know my anonymous profile. I mean, I have my public one for my channel, my, my brand of who I am, but then I still have actually, I have three anonymous profiles on please me because, you know, I like to dabble in all the worlds. So I have three because I just have different personas for me. It’s a way of playing. If I will. You will. You know, when I went on my BDSM, I put my go into my PTSM hat and then I go chat with my BDSM people. And when I want to talk about feminine and divine, feminine energy and tantra, I go in with my tantra identity, you know?

2 (7m 31s):
So, so that’s, that’s kind of how I see it. But, but this allows obviously brands and thought leaders to talk about sex freely, not worrying about getting deleted or their accounts getting deleted. We re we boost their posts instead of suppressing them, because we’re looking for that content to introduce our members too, because that’s why they’re here. And so do we have the number of members that Facebook has? No. So we’re not, we’re not the, the short, short term solution of how do they get the eyeballs, you know, tomorrow, because we’re still growing. We don’t have the 200 billion members that Facebook has not yet robust, but we’ll get there.

2 (8m 16s):
But, but, but what it is is it is the place where they can tell their current followers, Hey, I can’t post this stuff over here anymore. So if you want my more deeper, meaningful, sexier, fun content, then come follow my please meet channel because we’re not going to delete our Facebook accounts because what you do on, please me is not what you do on Facebook, right? So it’s not a con it’s not a competition. Right. And then, so this is just the place you go to play and have some fun and learn and expand your sexuality. So it’s complimentary not, not competition, if that makes sense. So

1 (8m 55s):
Three profiles. Hmm. A little bit of a split personality there. I love it. I love it. You know, I heard recently the European branch of the free speech coalition is petitioning. I don’t know what body it is in the EU. They’re coming up with some kind of internet law and they’re, they’re, they’re petitioning against censorship for the sexual industry.

2 (9m 24s):
Great. I’d love to get right on board with that and post it all over, please me and tell all 420 channels about it so they can get on board. I mean, this is what we’re passionate about. I’m a huge advocate for free speech. I think it’s very important to have both sides of an argument be heard. And I say argument, but discussion. I mean, thought process. And, and when we it’s, it’s important for innovation, it’s important for education. It’s important for development of anything ma that matters, right? So can’t stand to see this, this, this violation of our rights, especially in this country where we have them.

2 (10m 4s):
Yeah. Supposedly that’s a, yeah, that’s a,

1 (10m 7s):
That’s what the constitution says, how it’s being carried out as another is another matter. So how has marketing changed for the adult industry since foster sistah was passed?

2 (10m 20s):
Let’s be fair. I mean, we’ve always had censorship, right? Where we’ve been treated like the redheaded stepchild for a long time. However, what happened in 2018 is that the protection of well, which is all we all the, all the rage right now is to talk about, you know, this act from 1984 that we’ve had that protects indemnifies internet providers from the activity of their members. Right. It allows us to be able to provide technology so people can use it because we can’t be responsible for every single person on our platform and what they do. Right. That’s what the communications act, right. Section 2, 3, 4 is all about, but what foster assessed it did is it said, okay, yes, you have protection 2, 3, 4 for everything.

2 (11m 6s):
Except if there’s anything that’s going on and they put it under the human trafficking, we’re doing this to stop human trafficking, which by the way, I am a huge abolitionists for sex trafficking. And we shouldn’t pass the stop. It’s the third fastest growing criminal enterprise in the world. And we still have slavery and it’s called sex trafficking. Right? So we want to talk about racism. Well, let’s end slavery first, come on. People. We still have slaves running around. Right. So let’s get to that. And so I think it’s important that we do tackle that subject and find a way to do it. But what they did was lumped in prostitution into the law and said, if you’re doing anything that like marketing prostitution or advertising any sex work and, or have anybody being sex trafficked and, or have any child pornography, which I agree, we should not have child pornography.

2 (12m 4s):
We should not have people being sex trafficked online. And it’s, it’s, it is bad, but it removed those, those safeguards from 2, 3, 4. And so

1 (12m 14s):
Now by the way, two, three, oh,

2 (12m 17s):
And so now two 30 section 2 36,

1 (12m 21s):
Don’t worry about it. Yeah, I know. I know. And I asked I, and I asked you to, I asked you to do this at eight in the morning. So I it’s that’s, that’s my fault. I’m sure. You know what it is.

2 (12m 32s):
Yes. And so at any rate, those, those protections are no longer there. So now people are criminal. The people that own, these companies are not only civilly or criminally liable, but also civilly liable. So anybody can Sue anybody for anything these days and you have to then defend yourself in a court of law. And so, and then there’s and they do. And then there’s of course the civil part or the criminal part, which not only can you be fined, but you can face jail time. Right? So it’s, it’s a serious and scary thing. Right? And there’s the added problem of these platforms have 13 year olds and up on them, right.

2 (13m 13s):
Facebook and all these other platforms have allow their members to be 13 years of older. So the reason why the, the increase in censorship, especially on, well, let’s just say on sex and sexuality, cause there’s other censorship going on right now, too. But that particular censorship started in April and we saw it. We’ve seen it roll out. We’ve seen Tumblr Tumblr say no longer handling adult content, right? That’s the first big Lego to fall or domino to fall. And then we started seeing the revision to terms and service and the deletion of posts and the deletions of accounts left and right.

2 (13m 54s):
And the introduction of AI algorithms to help them try to get rid of some of this content, but the problem that they face. And, and I don’t, I don’t try to bill Annise them because there are real problems that they face. And I don’t know that the, I don’t think they want to suppress sexual content and maybe they do, but, but I, I would bet that they probably don’t. I think they’re just doing it for, to, you know, they, they

1 (14m 20s):
Have, they want to

2 (14m 22s):
Cover their ass, but they also have big advertisers that say, Hey, if you’re allowing advertising or you’re being associated with this, this, this, and this, and we’re not going to spend our money with you. Right. But I think, I think Facebook is pretty big now. I think they could probably tell everybody to bugger off if they wanted to, you don’t want to spend your dollars, your dope, the block, where are you going to get better ROI and a bigger pool of people. So I think it’s more about the cover, your ass thing.

1 (14m 49s):
Don’t talk to me about Facebook. I can’t even post, like on any of my, on any of my accounts because of their stupid AI over me over me, wishing a friend happy birthday. Okay. So I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve deleted Facebook on all my devices just to let you know.

2 (15m 5s):
Yeah, me too. I didn’t even load it on my new phone because I just don’t even want to go there. It’s not even, I haven’t been deleted. It’s just like, I just don’t even want it. I just don’t. I’m done well. And when you talk, when you

1 (15m 15s):
Talk about the whole sex trafficking thing, which was supposed to be the reason for all this, and I, I blame the politicians who sponsored it, not gonna mention any names, but ones in the ones in the white house, you know, it’s supposed to cut down on sex trafficking and not only did it not cut down on sex trafficking, it made sex trafficking worse because right now, law enforcement doesn’t have those escort sites to find the sex traffickers and entrap them. But at the same time, it’s made sex workers unsafe because they can’t vet Johns. And a lot of them have been driven to the streets.

1 (15m 55s):
So now there’s, this law stinks from top to bottom. And I think eventually I hope eventually it’s abolished. I expect to see a Supreme court challenge of it at some point where that goes, God knows, but we won’t, we won’t get into that.

2 (16m 14s):
Yeah. Yup. No, I mean, it’s, it’s, you know, the people that make the laws sometimes, obviously, as we all have experienced, clearly don’t think no,

1 (16m 27s):
No, stop there. Stop. There don’t think exactly. They don’t

2 (16m 31s):
Think like, how is this going to affect everything else? And are we really putting together good letters, legislation that has a chance of actually really solving this problem? And so I don’t, you

1 (16m 42s):
Know, no, no, it wasn’t there. I didn’t

2 (16m 44s):
Do it. But I, I agree with you that it’s had a horrendous effect and I mean, it’s visible world war. I mean, it’s huge. Well,

1 (16m 55s):
Speaking of nothing, we’re recording this the day after a prominent Republican Republican Congressman from your state has been, has been charged with a sex with a 14 year old girls. So there ya go. And that they could be punished to the nth degree of the law. If it’s true. I won’t mention his name, Matt Goetz. Anyway. So how are you different from other platforms that support adult content like safety?

2 (17m 26s):
Yeah, I mean, so number one, obviously we started building the top technology in 2018 and we’ve been working on it every single day since, and we will continue to evolve the technology as we, this is what we call an MVP a, which stands for minimum viable product, but it’s a souped up. It’s a very well-functioning MVP, but I say it that because there’s so many things I want it to be able to do. Yeah. Eventually put on a VR headset and walk inside one of the seven worlds of please meet for example, but that’s a little bit further down the line. Yeah. So I think one of the primary ways that we’re different than FetLife is from, from what I understand. And I went on it briefly and I talked to a lot of people that are on it.

2 (18m 10s):
They haven’t really done much with the technology in the last five or 10 years, however long they’ve been around. I don’t think, yeah. I don’t think they, they up there, their software and make changes. Right? So it’s, it’s really, labor is really a community, which we will be too, but we’re more of a technology company, right? We’re going to continue to innovate. We’re going to continue to expand. We’re going to continue to add FinTech for our industry. We’re going to be doing. And when I say for our industry, I think the difference also too, between FetLife and us is they’re very specific obviously to the ESM. Whereas we are sexual wellness and pleasure across the board. I wanted everyone to be able to feel like they have a place where they can have resources for their sex sexuality, regardless of their preference.

2 (18m 58s):
Because when I want to do explore, I wanted to go onto FetLife because I was kind of curious about media semi hadn’t had any experience with it yet, but it was just a little too scary. And what I mean by that is too much unknown. And I felt like I’m, I’m going to be this newbie and I’m going to, I didn’t, you know, I’m going to go on and everybody’s going to be like, wow, <inaudible> what I was talking about. I didn’t know what to expect. And you know, already it’s that control versus submission and paying for pleasure. So it was kind of like a little scary anyway, you know, in your mind, of course, it’s not right. We know this if you’ve been involved in it, but when you’re, when you haven’t, you don’t know that.

2 (19m 41s):
So I don’t know. I don’t know

1 (19m 43s):
If you’ve sat through a taping of one of kink dot comes, BDSM scenes like I have. And I brought my, and I brought my, a very innocent Tai Tai girlfriend at the time who became my wife to the party. It was a, it was at the kink castle, which no longer exists in San Francisco. Oh, it scared me.

2 (20m 6s):
Yeah. Well that’s what I was worried about for like two days. And I’m like, oh, and it was dark and it was black. And it was, you know, the software inside of it even felt like a little, like, I feel scared, but I know people love FetLife. And I don’t mean, and I only mean to put it down because it’s a great community. And I know that people have been on there for a long time and they are able to connect with one another. And I think it’s great. I think it’s wonderful. So yeah, we’re very, we’re very similar in the sense that it’s a community where you can, we’re more like Facebook.

2 (20m 46s):
I mean, we like them very much, but from a functionality standpoint where businesses have business pages, people have personal accounts, you can follow people, you can follow businesses, they show up in your feed, they can post an article. I used,

1 (21m 0s):
I used to have, I used to have all that Facebook.

2 (21m 5s):
Right, exactly. So, and I think that life isn’t, isn’t designed that way. Right, right, right, right. There’s different places you can go and there’s different things you can do. And there’s people you can connect with. And there’s a bit, you know, like we’re, we’re much more, we have that similar feel, I guess, to, to play, but that’s where it ends. Right. Right. We have seven worlds and there’s also places you can go and explore and there’s going to be events, calendars and things like that. Sexy travel, which of course, COVID-19 kind of put up those two channels on hold. Well, there’s nobody doing anything.

1 (21m 40s):
Right, right, right. Exactly. But

2 (21m 43s):
Yeah, that, that’s what we do. And that’s what, we’re what we’re all about. And I think sites like FetLife and all the others, we’re an aggregator of content. And so they should all have channels and let their people,

1 (21m 56s):
I was going to say, I was going to say that, that you should be partnering with these people.

2 (22m 1s):
Well, I mean, I don’t have to partner. They have the technology, they can use it. Meaning we’ll gladly. That’s what we designed it for. I guess always partners. But my point being, we don’t even need to make an agreement it’s there. Right. It’s there. And if you’re putting out great content and being a leader in your thought area, then we’re going to promote your content because we want to get people the best of the best and have them coming back to please me for more. So, I mean, eventually right when we’re, we’re a little bit further down the road this year, we’ll have the self administered advertising tools. Our industry can finally advertise. Right. But we need to raise the number of members first. Right. So where you have that chicken and the egg situation too.

2 (22m 43s):
So I understand so very, very shortly, we’ll have a whole ecosystem where we can have payment processing and cryptocurrency and screw the banks and processors that try to Jack us up to sex seven, eight, 10%, you know, fees, and then sell us. We’re not going to do business with you anymore. So we’re looking to provide the technology solutions to marketing and businesses, challenge challenges, and make it easy for people. I mean, I really built it for me. Right. Like, but if I’m going to build it, then I want it to be good. Right. But really make it easy for people to take this area of their life and make sure that it is positive and not negative.

2 (23m 27s):
Right. Whether that’s because of trauma or whether that’s because of heartbreak or whether that’s because of lack of skill or, you know, whatever their hang ups and problems are around sex and sexuality, let’s get to the bottom of it. So you can get to living more pleasurable life, you know, and if you have a pleasurable life and you’re like, well, this has gotten really good. I’d like to make it better. Well then let’s give you some more tools to take it to extraordinary. You know? So that’s, that’s really what it’s meant to do. And it takes art. It takes an army for that. Absolutely.

1 (24m 0s):
So what does pleased me’s mix of users like,

2 (24m 4s):
Oh my goodness. So it’s so interesting. We love being a data comm data company. We get to learn so much about ourselves and that’s another thing I’m on it. We’re very dedicated to is creating like the Watson, the AI de identified data of sex and sexuality, right. So I came from health and wellness. You mentioned it. And I think so we, we, we treat every member like a patient, meaning like we treat it like a HIPAA situation where their information is their private information. And so anything that goes into the database goes on a number with, with, with a profile, meaning it’s a woman between the ages of 20 and 29.

2 (24m 48s):
Who’s single and her name is nowhere near it. Right? And so it’s not tied or their identity. And so we’re going to continue to collect cool and inf informational stuff. But right now, what we know is that 62% of the people on the site are women. 32% are men. That is by design. When we spend our marketing dollars and target our target user is a woman between the ages of 25 and 55 who likes dating and who’s single and who loves love, interested in love and sexuality and astrology, for example, you know, like is one per persona. And we have the ladies, same mentality.

2 (25m 28s):
If the leaders are there, the guys will come and it’s been working beautifully. We’ve never not spent one dime to get the, the guys that are on the site. And we wanted that to be that ratio because I wanted women to feel comfortable. And like, you know, if you’ve ever walked into a bar and there’s like seven guys to one girl, it’s not fun too many times, too many, too much testosterone in the room. Like, no, no, no. I’m just like just, it’s just not fun. So I wanted them to feel, you know, I always wanted to feel women heavy.

1 (26m 2s):
Hey, it can be, it can be kind of fun if you’re, if you’re a female and want free drinks.

2 (26m 8s):
Well, yeah. But how many can you drink and

1 (26m 14s):
Where are you going after that? That would be, that would be home

2 (26m 17s):
With seven guys. Apparently. Oops,

1 (26m 20s):
I is, is that one of your personas anyway? So, so how are you able to support the industry’s need for advertising in a social media setting?

2 (26m 31s):
Well, I mean, number one, we’re 21 and over right. It’s an adult social media platform. So that’s the reason why, where we’re saying we freed the nipple and you know, you can post and eventually some of the tools will allow members to rate photos. Are they X? Are they double X? So they triple X. And then if people want to put filters on their feet and saying, I don’t want to see anything that’s this or that. Right. So that people are getting what they want and not what they don’t want. That’s one thing. So, and the other thing is we don’t think there’s anything wrong with advertising, sex and sexuality. There really, there really are no laws that people are breaking.

2 (27m 14s):
Like why Facebook or Instagram or Tik TOK or Snapchat or Pinterest refuses to take our advertising dollars. That please me is beyond me. Like, it doesn’t make any sense to me. Nope. We’re not selling sex. You know, meaning we’re not, I’m not a prostitute. Not that there’s anything wrong, I’m not knocking sex work. But if this is the law we’re talking about, we’re saying we can’t do it because it’s in violation of FOS assessed to, and we’re going to go to jail. We’re going to pay fines that we’re going to get civilly sued. Right. So I’m not that. So I don’t know what the problem is there, but they all call us. It’s the end, the end, the destination URL.

1 (27m 54s):
Oh, it’s their terms and conditions, which goes for, oh, so many different businesses in mainstream that, that ban our industry. And man, it just never ends email platforms and banks. And you can just go on and on and on. So how do you, how do you appeal to people of all sexual preferences?

2 (28m 18s):
I mean, it’s really quite simple. It’s about pleasing me. You know, the, the site’s name is pleased me. Right. And we give them an analysis so that they can put in their preferences of what they like in bed. That way we have a world we can put them into. Right. Do you want to do like really very traditional and don’t really venture outside the bedroom, not interested in bringing in any, any pain for pleasure or restriction or role-play well then you’re, they’re going to be an Alara right. With other people who are also interested in those things in bed. Right? So that way, when you have a question you don’t want to use, we don’t just judge each other for having sex.

2 (29m 0s):
We kind of judge each other for the way we have sex. Somebody to say to a masochistic may say to somebody who Alara, which is technically the term they call it vanilla. The vanilla person might say, well, you’re weird. And the Triton person might say, well, you’re boring. Right.

1 (29m 16s):
You know what I mean? They all would say that, but anyway. Right. So why put the Triton

2 (29m 22s):
And the Alara in the same world that you w

1 (29m 25s):
I don’t know, it might be fun. Well,

2 (29m 28s):
Guess what? They can visit each other’s world if they want to. Right. But my point being, I wanted people to

1 (29m 35s):
Have freedom. Hey, Hey, you asked why. So that was, that was my answer.

2 (29m 40s):
It could be fun. Right. And they convince it. But yeah, we wanted people to feel free to ask the questions and not worry about people around judging, even though we’re anonymous. Sometimes we still take on some judgment when somebody says something to us. Right. It doesn’t matter what our name is. It’s we hear it. Right. And so I just, I really want people to feel safe. And then the content of course, for those were worlds is curated to be applicable to those worlds. So in a Laura, you’re not going to see any BDSM content, right. Because they may not even want to see that, that might turn them off. That may scare them. That may go, I didn’t want it. I’m not even coming on the site, if I’m going to see that kind of stuff. Right. And so, and they ha they’re entitled to that.

2 (30m 21s):
Right? It’s their sex and their sexuality, and it should be their journey and they should enjoy the however they want to. Amen. Yeah. And so that’s, that’s really how it was important to me that we could appeal to everyone. I thought, well, that would really suck if this tool is only available for some people and not all because we’re all sexual beings. So we worked really hard to figure out a way to include the inclusivity and diversity. And we want to have these conversations. I’m doing a 14 video series right now on all the areas that I feel please, me as the power to do some real good and social reform. And one of them is just, you know, violence, hate crimes and racism.

2 (31m 6s):
It’s like, you know what, it’s great about these meat. You go into a world, you’re an avatar and a screen name. You can pick any avatar. You can be an animal, you can get smiley face. You can be whatever you want. And you’re really don’t know who you’re talking to. If your friend, you know, friending people and chatting up and making comments and topic rooms, and you don’t know their color, their age, their age, you know, none of it, you just know what they have to say. Right. And so we’re getting to know one another, we’re hearing one another with that other two or three senses nullify. Oh, wouldn’t

1 (31m 37s):
It be great. Wouldn’t it be great if politics were like that?

2 (31m 43s):
You know? And so how do we, how do we, how do we end racism? I mean, one thing I think is that you just, when you finally have a friend that’s of a race that maybe you didn’t understand, or you had a preconceived notion about, and then you got to be friends with that person, then you realize how wonderful they are. And why was I so scared of that race for so long? And like, now I get mad if somebody is going to talk badly to my friend at that rate, because I have an understanding now, and I have accepted that, they’re just the same as me. And I think the more that we have that ability to identify and learn from one other, where are we going to learn from one another? If we’re segregated. I

1 (32m 21s):
Agree. I agree. And we are as Americans, we most certainly are. Unfortunately

2 (32m 30s):
Only America has more of a Mecca of, of religions than a lot of other countries.

1 (32m 36s):
Yes. Yes. Well, it’s per it’s permissive. It’s right.

2 (32m 40s):
Yeah. I mean, we have more people here, but, but we just, but we just tend to community-wise them Lincoln air, you know, like people still kind of segment inside America. Right. But we got the people there here of all different races, you know? Cause everybody wants to come to America because it’s a

1 (33m 1s):
Great country. That’s what makes the cut. That’s what makes the country great. So why is prime? I can talk. Why is privacy important for your channels and members?

2 (33m 13s):
Well, listen, we’re not having sex in the middle of a restaurant for a reason. That’s because sex is a private enterprise, right. You know, I mean, there’s people that go to sex parties and they’re into orgies and they like threesomes and foursomes and puppy pals and twosomes. And that’s wonderful and great. And I’m not judging them. I’m just saying for most people, sex is a private enterprise. It’s something that’s done between two people who have interviewed each other and tested each other out and dated. And then they’ve decided, okay, now I’m going to be intimate with this person and in many cases, right. And then they do it where no one’s looking right. There’s a reason for that. Right.

2 (33m 53s):
Because we’re taking on with all her clothes for being completely, you know, vulnerable and intimate and this and that. And so why would we go out on a public platform and start talking about that private enterprise is between me and another person, even if I’m comfortable with it. And somebody knows who my boyfriend or husband is. And I start talking about our sex on Facebook, I’m violating consent. Did he give me consent to talk about the fact that I like, let’s just say I’m just using as an example because people have fears around it. But let’s say I’m started talking about the fact that we were curious about pegging and I wanted to peg him and he let me, and now he, and I’m, and I’m making this story up, but I’m just using it as an example because people, you know, that is a real fear that guys have.

2 (34m 38s):
If somebody hears, I got pegged, they’re going to think I’m gay, which there’s nothing wrong with being gay, but in their mind, they just don’t want the wrong identity. That’s not who they are being associated with them. Right. And so if I start talking about that on Facebook, he just got violated

1 (34m 54s):
His consent. Oh boy,

2 (34m 57s):
Totally. Right. Like he didn’t, why would you say that on Facebook and everybody here? And that, that’s my, why

1 (35m 2s):
Does so many people say private things on Facebook? I know, I know, I know married couples that have private conversations on Facebook. I’m like, why,

2 (35m 12s):
Why, why? So? Right. So if you’re exploring and, or learning and, or healing and, or just entertaining yourself privately, or it should be, it means you should at least have the option for it to be privately. Correct. Because it is a private enterprise. And then number two, maybe I don’t know what I like yet because I’m exploring. And maybe I would be willing to come out, say a little bit more publicly about sex and sexuality once I know. And I’m clear that that’s how I feel and I’m not ashamed to say it. Sure. But while I’m exploring, I don’t really know how I feel.

1 (35m 50s):
Right. Right. Yeah. Especially for younger people, especially for younger people who don’t have a lot of experience. So what problems have you solved for sexual wellness and pleasure brands with your platform?

2 (36m 3s):
Social sharing is a big problem. Meaning people won’t share their content because they don’t want people to see them sharing sexual content. Sure. That’s a huge problem advertising. That’s another problem we’re solving eventually say eventually the product isn’t ready for use yet, but financial tech to process payments and save them money and fees is another problem that we’re saving. I think just the not being able to be their brand is a problem. You know, in the marketplace, they can’t even really put out the information they want and say the things in the put the images that they would prefer to use to celebrate sexuality because they get censored everywhere.

2 (36m 47s):
So we’ve, we’ve opened up in the creativity box of, Hey, write the articles you want, use the images you want. You know, and another problem we’ve solved is, you know, when, when they do advertise, if you write an article, right, it’s about a dildo and how great it is, you have the ability and please me to choose what worlds you’re posting that article to. And if I want to, I can put a different image at the head of that article for Alara that when I told you about the three vanilla and I can put a totally different image for the one, that’s either Vega, Triton or Janus, that’s more BDSM focus. So now that same piece of content actually can appeal and th the user can go, oh, I see myself there.

2 (37m 33s):
Look at that BDSM person. Let me read this sex toy. They care about BDSM people. Yeah. Right. And so it really allows marketing teams to get creative and use one piece of content and just change the imagery to match the user personas better. Nice.

1 (37m 52s):
So how many business channels have set up please? Me accounts

2 (37m 56s):
Last I checked, which was, I believe last week. It’s 425. Geez. That’s great. Yeah. Some of the big names, I mean, you know, Dame products, Laura DeCarlo lust three adult time are so many, I hate to just pull out names because there’s so many there’s broadcasters, there’s erotic writers. There’s ASM, Mar artists there’s, you know, just personal artists, people that are porn stars or cam girls. There’s just, there’s so many, I mean, there’s too many events, too many dementia, but lots of big ones.

1 (38m 34s):
That’s awesome. So who’s your, so if you had your choice, if, if you, do you have a, like a wishlist of brands and companies that aren’t there yet? All of them

2 (38m 47s):
Seriously. I mean, like really all of them, because I want our, our, our members to have a plethora, but yes, I’d love to see Esther Perel have a channel. I think she’s amazing and has such great content. We can still post her content cause she’s got a lot of free content on YouTube. So we do, because I value her thought leadership, but love to have her energy in the platform. We’ve got Dr. Ava codel and Lori handlers who are two dynamos that have been in this industry, teaching and educating on sex and sexual wellness for 30 years each. So we’ve got a lot of really great

1 (39m 24s):
Thought. Yes. But do you have Dr. Ruth?

2 (39m 30s):
Oh my God. The Playboy club in New York, right before COVID-19 happened in my friend. Robbie’s birthday party and boy, my God, she’s short. She let little pipsqueak party til 12 o’clock at night with us.

1 (39m 43s):
She’s gotta be, she’s gotta be 150 by

2 (39m 45s):
Now, 92. And she just launched a new book, lasts like eight or nine months. Yeah. Yeah.

1 (39m 54s):
Have you ever heard, you ever heard Sam Kinisons material on her? No. You ever heard Sam? I love Sam kidding. After we’re done. You need to Google Sam. Kinison Dr. Ruth, and he will you’ll fall out of your chair. Oh my God. I’m totally doing that. It’s going to be awesome. You’ll love it. So what do you hope to accomplish with policemen?

2 (40m 17s):
You know, I mean, I want to increase the world’s happiness quotient. It’s just that simple. I really feel like when sex and relationships have such a huge impact on our overall health and wellbeing. When I worked in the medical community, I was like working on the physical side, right. The cellular therapies, the nutrition, the weight loss that you know, how to live healthier, longer, better quality of life. Right. Sure, sure. What I learned really quickly was that people, no matter how healthy I got them physically, if they were emotionally unwell and or if they were, and this completely applied to my life too, if I was having negative energy coming from my relationship sector and from sex and sexuality, because I did, I was, I wasn’t, I was very repressed, sexually growing up.

2 (41m 5s):
My family was really religious and I lived in the Midwest and, you know, I had a couple early sexual traumas from the age of five on, so I didn’t buy a vibrator till I was like 36, you know, like, I didn’t know how to have an orgasm my myself until 38, you know? So it was definitely a lot of shame, a lot of unsatisfying sex, a lot of fights, a lot of two divorces to get, you know, then I was like, something’s got to give it’s to change. And the only person that could do that was me. You know what I mean? And so I really just hope that people understand the importance that this area of our life really has and how it spills over into everything else.

2 (41m 51s):
And when you realize that and take a little accountability and say, well, it’s not great, but I can make a great if I just get some information education and put some time into it, then I think we can have a more productive society. I think we can have less crime. I think we can end cycles of abuse. I think we can put a big dent in child sex trafficking. I think there’s so many different things. Gender equality, you know, racism, hate crimes. I mean, let’s, let’s get together and take the steps that we can with the man and the woman in the mirror to be contributing positively to this part of our lives in the world.

2 (42m 32s):
And that’s really how you tackle these things is you can’t force somebody to not be a racist. No, you just can’t. You can, you can, you can, you can litigate and legislate and write it and do this and do that. But you can’t change people’s hearts and as they want to change their heart, you know, so, so how do we do that? And it’s by giving them tools and access and, you know, integrating and integrating.

1 (42m 59s):
I agree. I could not agree more. Well, Heather, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

2 (43m 9s):
Thank you, Bruce. It was so much fun. I really enjoyed being here and I loved meeting you too. And I hope that you’re doing well over there in Thailand.

1 (43m 16s):
Yeah. I hope we’ll get a chance to meet in person soon.

2 (43m 20s):
I’m sure we will. My broker

0 (43m 22s):
Tip today is part six of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about the sales agreement. So now both of you have signed the agreement. What comes next? There needs to be an escrow setup where you send the money, whether it be a one-time payment or a deposit. If you’re going to be making payments, this has done about half the time. These days, the seller for their part puts the assets of the sale into escrow, namely the domains being sold and any other tangible assets, it can be put into escrow. Your attorney can give you more information on that. We recommend for escrows. They are from out of Washington, DC. And no, they’re not paying me to say this. I just use them, trust them.

0 (44m 3s):
And I’m delighted by the work they’ve done for us. Either an escrow agreement will be drawn up by them in the case of a customer list grow. Or if it’s a simple one, it can be set up on their website. Then you, the buyer, the seller and the broker will be contacted by escrow domains with further instructions, such as wiring information, the escrow is opened and either the deal closes within a matter of few days or an inspection period is allowed. It all depends on what the agreement calls for, whether you need an inspection period. Really depends on the weather. There is still some information you need to find out prior to the deal, closing your broker and your attorney can advise you more on this. And this is on a case by case basis.

0 (44m 44s):
Then the money is transferred as are the domains and the deal is closed. Now in many cases, in fact, most of the time, the seller either stays on board for a period of time to help with the transition, or is at least available on a call basis to answer questions. This is something most buyers should ask for, but at this point, you pretty much own the website. What do you do now? We’ll talk more about that next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Matthew Bennett, the English Leather Master. You don’t want to miss that. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Heather Montgomery. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with entrepreneur Jack Armstrong.

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1 (1m 25s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale that adult side broker, we are proud to list for sale, a network of two mainstream flirt chat sites. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and New Zealand, both are mainstream flirt, chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis. They have a loyal customer base of 27,000 plus real members with many customers still active from 2017. Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with very low overhead and a proven ROI of 900% on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing.

1 (2m 12s):
These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep of the sites requires very little time and most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 plus strong member database. Many great markets are yet on tap for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA. Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites now for only 484,000 euros. Now time for this week’s interview

2 (2m 50s):
My guest today, Anna, don’t say broker talk is Jack Armstrong of Magnum rings, Jack. Thanks for being with us today. An adult side broker

3 (2m 57s):
Talk. Well, thank you, Bruce. We’re happy to be here. It’s

2 (3m 2s):
A pleasure to have you. Jack is the founder and product developer of Magnum rings in 2008. His career in real estate was decimated by the great recession. I could only imagine I spent a lot of time searching for new career options. He’s always been fascinated with the concept of permanent penis enlargement. So he read every article report and study on the subject eventually came across the subject of body modification. And you may have heard about the African tribal people who stretched the length of their necks, or you’ve seen bodybuilders who were average Joes and ended up looking like Superman. Those in all other forms of body modification rely on the physiological processes of stressing tissue to create micro tears, which causes the body to make new cells and promote significant changes.

2 (3m 53s):
Thus came the birth of Magnum rinks, which the system employs the same science, excuse me, and is achieved through a series of exercises and stretches the role of permanent penis. Enlargement is met with a great deal of skepticism. As one can imagine this industry like any has had its chair of bad products that are long on promises. I liked that long on promises, but come up short on results. Magnum rings is an affordable, common sense approach to permanent penile enlargement, a press release from you says that over 68% of men want a bigger penis. That’s wild. Where does this desire come from?

2 (4m 34s):
And what makes men think that their penis is too small?

3 (4m 37s):
Well, Bruce, I, I some would say that the desire for a larger penis goes back to the beginning of time. More, more, more recently. I think that with, with the explosion of the internet and the porn industry that men have increasingly are looking for for ways to enlarge their penis and that the industry has grown tremendously. So I think there’s a number of factors involved and I don’t think most men think they’re necessarily too small, but they, they like the idea of being well in doubt. Sure, sure,

2 (5m 16s):
Sure. I mean, it started with John Holmes and oh God, what was that guy Al long duck? Oh no. I was thinking of that. I was thinking of the movie 16 candles, long, long, long dong silver. That’s it long dong silver. Oh my God, that guy, that guy was just fricking huge. Yeah. You look at him and everybody’s got a small penis. So how did you get the idea to deal with the topic of penis enlargement and how did you finally come up with the idea for Magnum rings?

3 (5m 48s):
Well, as, as you mentioned in the intro there, that the, really my research on body modification led me to lead me to Magnum rings that the process of stressing tissue to create micro tears, which then the body naturally heals through the physiological process of, of hypertrophy and hyperplasia to heal, heal the micro tears. And so it’s a unique approach approach. I, I don’t think anyone else had had specifically taken this, this angle on it. And that’s, that’s how we ended up with a, basically a process that allows the user to create, create high tension overload in the penis by, by forcing blood into the penis to create the necessary micro tears.

2 (6m 46s):
Yeah. It’s, I mean, obviously it makes a ton of sense because everything in the body I think is able to do that. I mean, I think of the times that I’ve spent at the gym and, you know, I think everyone pretty much knows that what you’re doing is you’re tearing down your muscles and then your muscles build up. That’s why you don’t work the same muscle group two days in a row, which I’m sure you’re probably telling people not to do this two days in a row. So it’s, it’s kind of the same concept,

3 (7m 15s):
Right? It is by all means. And it’s, you know, there’s a process and, and we, we tell men that, you know, it takes time and, and not to expect overnight results. And that indeed it is important to follow our instructions that include using Magnum rings in the system every other day for about 15 minutes and, and allowing those off days to allow for the, for the tissue to heal. Right. It brings up the question of, of, you know, what, what sort of pain might be associated with it.

3 (7m 55s):
And I’m happy to say there’s really only some white bruising that comes with the American Marines when that’ll, that goes away within that 24 hour period. And you’re, you’re good to go on the, the following day. Yeah. You’re ready

2 (8m 14s):
For action as the case may be.

3 (8m 17s):
Exactly. Exactly. And we, we, of course always mentioned to people that you don’t want to overdo it, that safety does come first and that if you feel any sharper pains you want to discontinue use right away until that goes away. And it’s, it’s, it’s never a bad idea to talk to a medical professional beforehand, just to see if, see if this system suits you.

2 (8m 48s):
Yeah. And that brings up my question. I mean, obviously your penis is a pretty sensitive part in the area that is sensitive of, of a man’s physiology. How

3 (9m 2s):
Safe is it? We have never had reports of anyone being, having any, any damage done. I think that that’s great because our system is it’s, you’re creating the high tech tension overload by using our patented system of pressing on the scrotum area is so it’s a, it’s an internal forcing of the blood into the penis chambers. And so unlike penis, maybe penis pumps or traction devices, which I’ve never really used, but they did it in my mind.

3 (9m 42s):
They, they tend to be a little more radical because they’re introducing it an outside force acronym or insure it’s an internal surge of blood, which I think helps, helps with the introduction and the safety of the product. Okay.

2 (10m 3s):
Now I think you kind of answered part of this. Okay. How often should it be used and what results can be?

3 (10m 12s):
Well, we recommend usage for at least starting out 15 minutes every other day. And that can be changed to daily use once you, once your body is acclimated to it. And you’re you have learned the system. Yes. And the gain is, of course, everyone is different. We’re happy to say that gains are coming both length and girth. And you know, I personally I’ve been using Magnum Marines for about three years and our gains, I would say, have been about 50%.

3 (10m 55s):
That’s crazy. 50%, correct.

2 (10m 59s):
My goodness gracious. That’s better than plastic surgery.

3 (11m 3s):
Well, and a whole lot less expensive too.

2 (11m 6s):
Yeah. And less painful. I, now, now we were talking about every other day, but you said eventually someone can use it every day. How’s that when you’re, when you’re creating tears, don’t you need to give it the additional day to recover.

3 (11m 23s):
Well, Bruce, I mean, it’s, I think it certainly depends on the user and we never want to encourage anyone to overdo it or take it further than what their body tells them is. Right. But once, once you build that muscle and you’ve, you’ve the, that the tissue is acclimated to that, that certain blood, my personal experience has been much less transformation on the, on the tissue itself. And

2 (11m 59s):
One thing you said, pushing on the scrotum, you’re not talking about like squeezing your balls, are

3 (12m 5s):
You, well, it’s not so much a squeezing of the balls, but it’s pressing, pressing the scrotum into the upper thigh area. And the, the key to the whole system is creating that surge, aiding that surge into the penile chambers. So it’s, it’s not a, it’s not an actual squeezing when it’s more of a pressing of the skirt America. Mm.

2 (12m 34s):
Okay. Not squeezing, but pressing. Okay. All right. All right. I’ll take your word for it. Anything down there, I’m always like, Hmm. Okay. Now there are several other products that also aim to achieve permanent growth of the penis. What are the advantages of your product compared to other products?

3 (12m 57s):
Well, th th there certainly are a number of differences. You’ve, you know, many people, when they first see the Magnum range, they confuse it with a soft cock ring, which the, the cock ring of course, is more intended to constrict blood into the penis. We’re with Magnum rings, excuse me, which magma rings. It’s our, our system slows the flow of blood from leaving the penis back into the body. The most commonly are, I guess, the devices you see out there, or the extenders or traction devices, and those, those require a much, a much longer commitment of, of wearing the things for about six hours a day and

2 (13m 48s):
Hours a day, where the hell has time for that. Well,

3 (13m 53s):
I have never tried one myself. I couldn’t imagine, but I guess they, they try to make them small enough where they’re not visible through your pants or something, but they, they, these traction devices are more working on length. You really can’t add yours with that sort of device. And, you know, even like, even the inexpensive ones are a couple hundred dollars. So the Magnum rank system is 39 95 foot, basically $40 for the system. And it’s, I think is much more effective than, than the traction devices.

3 (14m 37s):
And then you have, of course, the penis pumps, which will draw blood into the penis, which will give a temporary sense of enlargement, but it I’ve never heard. And they weren’t. Other than the manufacturer say that there’s permanent gains. Yeah.

2 (14m 54s):
Yeah. I’d say it’s, it sounds like you’re just more the real deal. And there’s this kind of like, well, yeah, the flat,

3 (15m 3s):
I’m not, I’m not here to bad mouth other systems. I just think we offer an alternative. That’s not only much less expensive, but, and in my mind is, is very effective and, and should be considered if this, if penis argument is something that a man is, how did you come

2 (15m 25s):
Up with this concept? I mean, it’s so revolutionary. What, what made you, what made you, I mean, how’d, you, how’d you come up with this

3 (15m 36s):
Idea is, as you mentioned in the intro that I had a lot of free time during the great recession and the subject had always been of interest to him. I, I was the, one of the, one of the ones who bought into insight, which was back in the 1990s. You may remember smiling, Bob was their, their character, but, you know, I, I, I believe that every, every problem has a solution. So I really dove into this and read every article and researched it as far as I could. And, and as you mentioned, came up with this with the concept of body modification, which of course leads to, to creating natural stress, to, to form the micro tears and stimulate cell growth through the hyperplasia.

3 (16m 35s):

2 (16m 35s):
You’re, you’re only charging $40, which kind of stunned me because I’m thinking to myself, well, you got the answer to a problem that as you said, you know, the majority, the vast majority of men would like solved.

3 (16m 51s):
Why aren’t you charging more? You know, we’re relatively new into the market. And of course, there’s so much skepticism that surrounds the whole, whole process of penis enlargement that w we feel we needed to be at a price point that would say, men would say, well, you know, this sounds novel. Let’s maybe I’ll give it a try. And it’s a lot easier to hand over $40 than a two or 300 or for some of our alternative systems. Yeah, sure. So it’s a, and plus, I mean, it’s, it’s our device devices relatively inexpensive to make it’s a latex medical tubing.

3 (17m 39s):
We cord lock to adjust it. And I think the biggest part of the system besides the rings themselves is actually the, the, and the, and the patented part of our system, which is, is really the key to it. The Magnum rings ourselves selves. They’re an important component, but they’re, they’re almost like the, if you’re using the comparison with a weightlifter where we’re the weights that the user will have to, to create that necessary stress. Yeah,

2 (18m 16s):
No, no, no doubt about it. Well, Hey, high profit margin never stopped anybody before. Indeed. How are you finding this industry to be in, by the way, I mean, you come from the world of real estate, which is obviously way different than I have a lot of friends who do real estate in California, where I’m from. In fact, my wife does it here. How,

3 (18m 40s):
How have you found the industry? Well, you know, it’s, it’s interesting. The, I have found the people most critical of the whole Magnum rings idea are people that are within the industry are our direct competitors. Of course, they will poop to it and say, you know, oh God, how, how, how can you expect, you can create any sort of, some significant gains with this, with this tool. And it’s, so it’s been unlike real estate where we have a environment of cooperation and working together. I have found the industry to be pretty difficult to navigate and thanks to some consultants I’ve worked with and cook and including our friend, Jason he’s, he’s helped me kind of avoid some of the landmark lines and know, again, our growth has been slow.

3 (19m 37s):
I wish we would have taken off from day one, but we, we believe in our product that we know, we know that once enough people are, are exposed to it, that w we, we think it’ll, we think we have a very bright future. Sure.

2 (19m 53s):
And the interstate, the internet side of our industry is a lot nicer by the way, just to let you know, I don’t know if you’ve been being able to go out to shows or anything yet. I know in the last year nobody’s had any shows, but I think you’re gonna find the, a you’re going to find our, our, our side of the industry to be much nicer and much more cooperative. And we do work together. That’s a, that’s a big difference. So some where it’s a lot like real estate. So tell us about your money back guarantee.

3 (20m 22s):
We really feel it’s important to stand behind our product. And so we offer a no questions, asked, guaranteed that if you don’t see results that you like within four to six weeks, just return the product to us. And we’ll refund refund, the total cost, excluding postage. And I can add there. Bruce said in the, in the three years we’ve been working on Magnum rings, that the number of returns I can count on one hand.

2 (20m 58s):
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So you, weren’t you, when you did that work, you kind of worried that people would use the product, take advantage of it and then send it back.

3 (21m 7s):
That’s always a concern, and this is my first experience in any sort of retail online type business. Sure. But now that, that has not been the case. And, and we are, it gives us a lot of reassurance that we’re on the right. Yeah, absolutely.

2 (21m 25s):
And you know, another thing that I think comes into play here that I think when you develop a product and then use the product and see the kind of success you’ve had yourself with the product, it’s very easy for you to go out there and show conviction in it. Isn’t that

3 (21m 44s):
True? Oh, by all means is as a person in sales, you’ve got to believe in your product. And it’s again, it’s, I get a lot of positive feedback from, from past customers. We have a number that have reordered the second time around, though, if you use Magnum rings, as they’re intended, they really should last you for, for quite some time that a reordering is not something that you should, should need to do anytime soon.

2 (22m 17s):
Okay. Now, which sales channels are you offering your products on so far?

3 (22m 22s):
Well, as I mentioned at this point, most of our sales have been online through our We also have a, a number of affiliates and reviewers that are out there where we have reviews on supplement, and supplement and size And some of those are affiliates. Some others like supplement police stated they are not an affiliate marketer. They’re just a third-party voice for the industry out there. So we’ve had great exposure through those.

3 (23m 5s):
Those, you know,

2 (23m 8s):
You said the response has been really good. Maybe you can, maybe you can give us a little more information on that.

3 (23m 14s):
Well, I think that overall people are first surprised at the low cost of the product, but they, they have said that, you know, it’s fun to use. It’s some have used it as a, a sex enhancer, which it’s really not necessarily intended for that, but they are using it on, on some occasions as almost a cock ring, rather than that enhancement system that it is. But, you know, we pride ourselves in customer service and being there to answer questions for, for customers on, on the system and how it works.

3 (23m 57s):
And we also, we stress that safety comes first and it’s important in something like that, where you’re doing body modification, that, that you listen to your body and, and we’re there to help along the way, as far as what, where people have had success and maybe where people have had challenges using the system

2 (24m 23s):
With your, with your resellers. Okay. What kind of feedback have you gotten

3 (24m 29s):
From them? Well, it, it, you know, it really depends on how, how much they’ve been promoting the side. I’d say that most, most of them have not actually tried the system themselves. They’ve if they’re reselling our product, they generally are selling 15 or 20 other products. And so I can’t speak to really too much feedback other than, than they, they considered a very novel approach and that they’re happy to introduce their client base to it. I mean, don’t

2 (25m 6s):
You don’t, you agree with me that unless you tried something, it really becomes hard to say,

3 (25m 15s):
Yeah, I would, by all means. And I, I th I think it’s important that not only the people try it, but that they are committed to the system because it’s something like penis enlargement, it is a journey and it takes time. And it though, you’re going to start seeing results, and we say, four weeks, six weeks for significant growth. You, you really have to stay with it. And I, I follow up with a lot of our customers just to see how it’s going and how they’re enjoying the Magnum rings. And you’d be surprised a lot of them say, oh, I, I did it for a month.

3 (25m 55s):
And then I lost interest and I put them in a drawer and I haven’t tried them in the last six months. So again, it takes a degree of commitment to work in working the process. And I’m not sure that resellers, you know, their, their interest is in obviously turning knees and, and making a profit. And they may not be so interested in actual permanent enlargement.

2 (26m 22s):
What kind of a, what kind of education do you give your registration?

3 (26m 27s):
Well, we have a very detailed instruction manual that comes with Magnum range. And so it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a pretty simple process and the, the exercises and the routines are pretty straightforward. So we, we give them every detail as much as we can to make sure that they’re getting off on the right foot and getting the most out of their workouts. Okay.

2 (26m 57s):
Okay. But I mean, in terms of the people that are selling it, do they get any extra training?

3 (27m 2s):
No, they really don’t. It’s, you know, we’re there to offer any training that they may need, but it’s, and it’s a, it’s a pretty, it’s a pretty straightforward and simple process. You’re, you know, you’re pressing on your scrotum and forcing blood into the penis. And once they get the, once they get the field down of what they’re doing and, and how, how, how it’s working. I think that it’s pretty much self-explanatory.

2 (27m 29s):
Would it help if you did like a, like an animated video, you might want to talk to Jason about that? I’m sure. I’m sure it’s crossed his mind. Those, those were Curry. Well, I think, I think an actual video for them, for a product like this might be just a little bit, you know, but, but I think animated would be kind of fun.

3 (27m 48s):
Yeah. And we’ve had a number of customers suggest that and bringing up, bringing it up here might just be the impetus to get us going forward with them.

2 (27m 59s):
I’ve been in marketing my whole life, my friends. So I, I get these ideas. I can’t, I can’t turn it off, man. I just can’t turn it off. Now. I understand you’re looking for distributors, especially in Europe. What kind of criteria are you using to pick distributors?

3 (28m 19s):
Well, you know, at this point, we’re, we’re excited about the worldwide market. Many of our, probably about 10% of our orders come from overseas. And the majority of those of course are Europe and Australia, and we’re, we’re there to, to help help any retailers or distributors that would like to include magnet Marines in their product line. As, as far as our criteria is, is that we’re, we want to make sure that, that the retailers have, have as much information as they need to make a decision.

3 (28m 59s):
And we’re, we’re of course, offering, offering samples to, to send out to anyone. Who’s interested that my, my life to give it a try and, and make a decision, their informed decision on, on their own is

2 (29m 14s):
Your, is your site by the way, translated into like Japanese

3 (29m 18s):
And Chinese? No, it is not. I think there are certainly platforms that will do that for, for the user, but we D we did not specifically have, have a site geared to different, different languages. Region’s

2 (29m 33s):
A huge market, especially for people who want to have larger penises, because the penis sizes of the Asian tend to be very small and yeah. And the Asia is just an incredible market. So another thing to give some thought to, in fact, when we, when we’re offline, I’ll talk to you about something, what demands do you make on your distribution partners?

3 (29m 59s):
Well, we, we really try to make it as simple as possible for them, again, understanding it’s a new product and a very novel approach. We, we don’t, we try not to put a lot of demands on it, but in order to make it cost effective, we have a minimum order size of 10 units. And that’s not, it that’s not asking much now, now, and it’s, you know, the price, the price is it’s a scaled pricing and dependent on the number of units and anyone can contact us to, if they’d like to discuss that further.

3 (30m 39s):

2 (30m 41s):
How do you support your distributors?

3 (30m 45s):
Well, there’s a, as I mentioned, Bruce, we have a very nice professional packaging, as well as our instruction manual. And so those are really, I think, helpful for, for retailers and distributors. Our website is very informative is very informative and gives a lot of the history and, and practical techniques and use of Magnum rings. And we’re, we’re looking at point of sale type programs and materials, but those are still in development until we expand our, our, our distribution network more.

3 (31m 30s):

2 (31m 31s):
What expectations do you have of the European

3 (31m 34s):
Market? Well, you know, as I mentioned, we’re, we’re very excited about it. We have about 10% of our sales are overseas. And I think what’s really holding us back is, is of course not the not having as much exposure as we would like. And then of course, that $20 charge that we, that we put on for, for shipping overseas, we do a flat rate, $20 charge that of course brings that brings that costs from around $40 up to $60. We think if we can eliminate w with distributors, if we can eliminate that shipping charge and with distributors around the world, I think that will further enhance the, the viability and the, the, the, the pricing on Magnum room.

3 (32m 26s):

2 (32m 26s):
Most, most us products, if it’s $40 in the U S it’s 40 euros in Europe. So that’s another thing you might want to give some guy, some thought, dude, they’re just used to paying it now, do you intend to expand your product range and is Magnum rings going to be available in other versions,

3 (32m 45s):
Bruce, you know, we’re all as a brand, we’re always looking for different options, but at this point we were focused on our bread and butter and our primary product being the Magnum ring system, and we’ll see, see what the future brings.

2 (33m 2s):
Okay. But I mean, as anybody in the laboratory right now looking at different versions,

3 (33m 8s):
No, I can’t say there is. I think we’re happy with the version that we have right now. And we’re, we’re always open to suggestions and improvements, but we think we, we think we have a winner.

2 (33m 22s):
It sounds like it well, Jack, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again, down the road.

1 (33m 31s):
Broker tip today is part five of how to buy an adult website. Last week, we talked about how to determine the value of a website, how to negotiate the sale and how to get to the point of drawing up an agreement. So now you’re talking to your attorney and you’re having them draft an agreement, what should be in it? Well, your attorney will guide you through the legal side, but here are some considerations to keep in mind from a buying standpoint, what is the date you’d like to close?

2 (33m 58s):
Make sure you know, that you’ll have the money to either

1 (34m 0s):
Pay the deposit or the entire amount of the purchase by that date. I’ve had buyers who aren’t ready and that just causes issues. In fact, I’m going through some of those right now with a couple of my deals, make sure that all of the assets you’re purchasing are in that agreement, such as every domain included in the sale processing and payment accounts, relationships with vendors, all records, including 2, 2, 5, 7 data software to run the sites and any other assets such as source code for the sites. Of course, it should spell out any payment schedule. If there is one who is responsible for closing costs, such as paying for escrow, and there are always terms that are unique to yours and the seller’s situation, this assumes you’re the party responsible for drawing up the agreement.

1 (34m 49s):
If the seller is drawing up the agreement, then it’s important that you express all of this to your legal representative so they can check the seller’s agreement and see if any changes are necessary. We’ll talk about this subject more next week and next week we’ll be talking to Heather Montgomery of please me.

0 (35m 9s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Jack Armstrong. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult industry attorney Nick Zargarpour.

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1 (1m 23s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week that’s for sale at adult side broker, we are offering a rapidly growing hair, shaving site. This site shows women getting their heads shaved. It does not show explicit content. So it is much easier to promote than other adult sites. The site creates an environment for their customers, where they feel like they are getting invited to the party of their hair, fetish dreams. They love using slogans like come join the party. There’s a sister site that is a unique method of hosting their videos in a discreet manner for their customers. The site is fueled by redirects. This is essentially the brains of the whole operation.

1 (2m 4s):
It handles the billing and rebilling user information and video displays. There is also a separate forum and a download store that did $5,000 in sales. The first month alone, there is no paid advertising that go directly to their customers with targeted SEO, YouTube videos and social media. The community for this niche is very loyal and the members will help any way they can to see sites like this grow. They’ll donate. Some will even do work for the site for free. The site has a lot of room to grow with a little more time and investment. There’s a mailing list of well over 1100 model’s hair can be sold for thousands of extra dollars.

1 (2m 47s):
There are trained producers for these shoots who would be happy to stay on after the sale. This great site is available for only $480,000. Now time for this week’s interview. My guess today on adult site, broker talk is Nick czar, Gar poor Nick. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk, Hey, glad to be with you guys. It is a pleasure. Now Nick is a California attorney that has over 20 years of legal experience. He started when he was 12 in business and business litigation and over 35 years of experience starting and running successful small businesses. I think he ran his first business when he was three, actually, anyway, he handles clients and various legal aspects of the adult industry and brings a wealth of knowledge about both the operation and legal aspects of the business.

1 (3m 37s):
In addition to being a trial lawyer, Nick is also a professor teaching business plan, writing UCLA extension, Nick. How, and when did you get involved in doing legal work for the adult industry?

2 (3m 51s):
But seven years ago, I got approached by one of my clients that runs a strip club and he wanted to invest in adult industry and he wanted me to review and can negotiate some contracts for him. And I negotiated and we wrote up the contracts and he invested with a company and it was, I guess, more profitable at the beginning than it is later, but overall he was happy with it and it was just something for him to basically dabble it. Once I started doing business with them, with, with him and the other side, the other side decided they liked the way I did things and they started hiring me.

2 (4m 33s):
And then I got into the adult in the streets slowly but surely I would say probably about, oh, I say four or five years ago, I went to the Phoenix forum. Oh man. It is a good show. It is a good show. It

1 (4m 50s):
Was a good show. Yeah. Yeah. And that was very relaxing. And that was your first show.

2 (4m 56s):
That was the first show. Yeah, I did the Phoenix forum and then experts. I went to one AVN and I’ll be honest with you because for me it’s a business, a business thing. Yes. ABN was, it was a wonderful sitting at the Dunkin donuts and working. That’s pretty much what I did Saturday, the build up, but most of the time and worked, I

1 (5m 18s):
Think everybody can picture that, that spot and people with their laptops. There’s no two ways about it. Hey, I gotta ask you. So, so being a mainstream business guy and an attorney, what was your impression the first time you went to an adult expo?

2 (5m 36s):
First time I went to an adult expo. In what respect, like a first time I went, I went when I was like 21. I went to AVN.

1 (5m 46s):
No, no, no, no. I’m talking, I’m talking about as a business person.

2 (5m 49s):
Yeah. My first impression of the people at the Phoenix forum and other adults industry shows the business, the business ones is that they are wonderful people. The people are accepting of all kinds of, you know, different people, something that you don’t see that like, for example, I go to legal conferences too. And if someone shows up with orange hair, you know, something, they would be treated as a pariah at a legal conference. Maybe not overtly, but maybe, you know, just subconsciously they would do that. But when you go to the adult expo, everyone was adults, you know, business, a business, you know, no matter who you were, no matter what you did, no matter how many tattoos you have, what color hair you had or no hair at all, people treated you as one of their own in a very accepting.

2 (6m 36s):
And I really enjoyed that.

1 (6m 38s):
So when did you stop dyeing your hair? Orange? Well

2 (6m 45s):
Told me, I guess, would be the first jury trial I would ever have to go forces you to not, well, I know I didn’t have, I’ve never had one.

1 (6m 57s):
I know. I know that was a little, that was a little joke. Very little. I can, I can only muster so much early in the morning. So how do you like working with people in adult? You kind of answered this a little bit at the trade shows, but how do you like working with people and adult versus people in the rest of the business community?

2 (7m 18s):
Well, we get the same issues with the adults, people working in adult, as opposed to the ones that don’t work in adult. I get a lot of people that just think the handshake is good enough or what they were promised. Right, right, right. Or word of God and everything is good and Dory, and we can just go forward and without having to take any kind of, you know, you know, assurances that what we were promised or what you were promised is going to be actually delivered to you. Correct. Yeah. You know, and you get the same thing adult, maybe a little more.

1 (7m 57s):
Well, I think it’s, I think it’s a lot more, but I don’t know.

2 (8m 1s):
No, it’s a little more because, because I do get so many of my other clients that still, you know, just a non adult industry, that’s still believing that some of them are old school. Like I’ve got a gentleman in his eighties that still does deal by shaking hands. He does everything he’s supposed to, not everyone does that. And I kept telling him the, the deal that nowadays, when you shake hands with someone, you count your fingers to make sure they’re all there. And so is your ring. You make sure they didn’t.

1 (8m 31s):
Well, you should tell him that. As long as he’s shaking hands with somebody in his own age range, he’s probably in fairly good shape. That’s a little joke. But any anyone else forget about it? What type of legal work do you do in the industry?

2 (8m 47s):
Oh, we do all kinds. I mean, tell them, we do the negotiations on the large contracts. You know, when companies want to do deals with each other, you know, exchange of, of products we do in forcement, when there’s copyright violations, when someone took, you know, we have a case right now that a mainstream individual used copyrighted information videos from one of our clients. And they’re trying to say that, no, it’s fair use. And we’re saying, no, it’s not fair use anyways. That’s one of the things that we do now. It ranges. Now it goes from the biggest deals with the business to business aspect too.

2 (9m 30s):
I’ve had, you know, then we go to the other spectrum, the other end of the spectrum, where I represented two adult industry individuals living together whose neighbor was complaining about them having sex and too loud. And, and the landlord wanted to the victim. And I basically you’ve stepped in and said, no, no, no, no, no, you, you, you just basically this neighbor’s got it out for them because this neighbor is found out that aren’t my clients, aren’t adults. And therefore we are not going to put up that, you know, and you can’t do that in your you’re the victim. You try to evict them. I will go in there and I will basically put a full court press on you.

2 (10m 14s):
And of course we never heard anything after that. Wow. But again, it ranges, like what we do is we negotiate the contracts. We enforce the contracts. If we have to go to trial, we go to Trop. I’ve even had appeals. The issue is I had, when I was growing up, I worked for a family business. And in the family business, I found out when I had it as early as like 21, 22, I had a, I had a lawyer for the family business. It was a transactional attorney. I found out that a transactional attorney will do anything to settle the case, even at the disadvantage of you, the client, because he wants to avoid litigation.

2 (10m 59s):
Whereas I said to myself, well, I don’t want to be that kind of an attorney. So I negotiate. And because I’ve got the business background, because I used to be a consumer of legal services before I became the provider of legal services. I used to know what I hated about my lawyers and what my lawyers did in the family business. And I go out of my way not to do that. For example, they used to leave me voicemails, Hey Nick, this is Bob, blah, blah, blah. About, you know, this matter, blah, blah, blah. You know, please call me back. And there was a 0.1 on my bill.

1 (11m 36s):
Can you hear me, Bruce? Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy. That’s crazy. That’s crazy.

2 (11m 40s):
No, that we’ll do that 0.1 on my bill and I would have to argue. So I, I do not do anything like that. Most of the time my clients call me up and ask a quick question. I don’t even put it in the, in the computer. And if I have to put up think it, if I have to read documents and stuff like that, absolutely know it has to be built for, because I’m not Amazon. I don’t have boxes shipping out the door while I’m sitting there talking with you.

1 (12m 4s):
You don’t work. You don’t work for free nor should you.

2 (12m 7s):
Oh no, no one. Yeah. That’s why. Yeah. My time is basically my inventory and, and because of that, so I have to charge for it. But if it’s like someone that calls me up and asked a quick question, it’s a good client. You know, if someone has worked with me before someone has, you know, referred to me, when people tell me all of these things, I basically, you know, go out of my way to help them as much as possible. And, and if I know the answers, I give the answer. If I don’t know the answers, I try to get their answers or refer them to an attorney that does, I don’t refer, usually refer people to attorneys that I don’t know. Well, yeah, because I gotta be able to have the, that person’s cell phone and pick up the phone and say, Hey look, Larry, the person I referred to you is done happy with your services.

2 (12m 58s):
You’re not calling him back fast enough, calling her back fast enough. You better call the back line. And you’d be surprised. You know, that really is the biggest problem with attorneys is that they don’t return phone calls or emails.

1 (13m 15s):
I got it. I got a great story about billing. I, when I was doing my mom’s, I can’t even think of that or trust. We did the, sometimes the words don’t come early in the morning when I was doing her trust, I used an attorney and I was in an office building and we were on the fifth floor and two floors down, literally between a walk and an elevator ride about a minute, okay. Was this attorney? And so they delivered the documents to me.

1 (13m 55s):
And I got a bill for an hour who are delivering documents for delivery documents up to levels, taking an elevator. I hope you disputed that. I think, of course I did. I said, I’m not paying, I’m not paying that. Oh yeah. That’s the thing. That’s, that’s kind of the old school attorney way. And I say old school because some are still doing it. Okay. But that, to me, that’s just crime. It is. Yeah. I had

2 (14m 29s):
A, I have a client right now and a very interesting case, which is like for law, you know, it’s got sex appeal, it’s got money, it’s got everything. And in that situation, there was an attorney that this person had hired in a family law matter. And the lawyer is a famous LA divorce attorney and she’s this and she’s that. And she’s know this famous person’s attorney and that famous person’s attorney and all this other, you know, the bonafide, she would charge my client eight hours of attorney work for making a one hour appearance. And that is highly unethical.

2 (15m 11s):
And I told my, I told my client, you got to put your foot down as far as this family attorney. And by the way, one of the other things is I get people that say, oh, I went with, you know, Tom, blah, blah, blah, or Larry, blah, blah, blah. And he is, you know, this famous person’s attorney at that point and this person’s attorney and I’m thinking to myself, yeah. But the problem there you have is you are not famous,

1 (15m 40s):
Very famous. They want to be famous. So they figure if they, if they take on this person’s attorney, that that makes them famous.

2 (15m 48s):
Well, yeah. Some, some people maybe in the talent plan, you may think that’s funny, but, but no, I, I didn’t think about that aspect of it, but, but the problem is you’re not famous. You just become a cash cow to them. Of course, you know, you just become something for them that you’re secondary because your name is not on TMZ every week. Okay. Their name is, and therefore this cash, you’re just a cash cow for them. And they don’t give you the service. And you usually get relegated to some associate that you’ve never even heard of after first or second meeting or a legal assistant or a legal assistant that doesn’t even know what they’re talking about. And this is like one of the biggest issues I have with all of these big advertising law firms, you know, like all the big ones that are billboards and stuff like that.

2 (16m 34s):
Every time I’ve had someone come to me from one of their accounts and I don’t handle personal injury or any of that stuff. But you know, you always hear about the stories and the stories are, oh yeah. I talked with your attorney once. And then the rest of the time, it was just some paralegal that I was talking to. Which again, no, I just don’t run my practice that way. I, I still answer the phone myself, even though I, we have a staff of three, still do everything myself. There’s just no reason to do this. If I’m as an attorney, I can’t get off a phone call. I don’t want to be on, I don’t deserve to be an attorney.

1 (17m 9s):
I, I agree wholeheartedly. I, for, for attorneys like the ones you described, like, I’ll use the same saying that here in Thailand, they use for some of the, some of the work and girls that, that send their, their customers emails all the time saying that they need money. Yeah. We call the customers ATM machines. So, and they’re, they’re pretty much on the same level too. So what are some of the basic legal things business people need to do? Or

2 (17m 43s):
One of the things I’m finding out, and I give this as part of my class and it’s, I’ve given some lectures about this. It’s like basically the 10 things you need to know about contracts. I’m not going to go through all 10 of them right now. But one of the things that you really need, need to do is make sure you’re getting something. Yeah. I’m surprised how many contracts I read, where you’re supposed to do a, B, C, and the other side has some kind of an amorphous, you know, thing that they’re supposed to do. Something that’s not, you know, you know, written out something that’s not clear.

2 (18m 26s):
And sometimes when it’s clear, there is no date to it. You know, they can, they can literally sit on there and sit on it and not do something. You know, if they’re supposed to do it, you’ve done your part. Right. They’re supposed to do it. They say, well, I’ll get to it two months from now, nothing in the contract says that I have to do

1 (18m 47s):
Now. Yup. Yup. So

2 (18m 49s):
That’s one of the issues, right? The issues that I find a lot in contracts, second of all, though, there’s not even a contract, you know? And there’s just basically, like I said, you’d say something, the other person says something. If it’s something that is important to you, and of course it’s important to you because guess what? You are negotiating this with someone you are asking them to do it. Yup. Get it in writing. Yep. If it’s an exchange of emails and then the person asked him, if you, your understanding is the same, please, please say yes. Or tell me where I’m

1 (19m 29s):
Wrong. Yeah. In a reply email that could be used in court

2 (19m 35s):
Guess necessarily in court. It’s just clarifies everything for everyone. Like my business people. My, my more, let’s say, we’re talking to see the problem is we’re talking. I don’t know who we’re talking about right now. Are we talking about a brand new, just someone working out it, our home, you know, doing some work or something. One that is a more established business or someone that’s a super big business and they get something. If someone is supposed to do something for you, you get it in writing. They’re supposed to do it by this day. They’re what they’re supposed to do. Exactly. What’s the quality of what they’re supposed to do. And when are they supposed to do it by?

2 (20m 16s):
And if you’re a bigger company, this is good for you for you because now you can let your staff know, Hey, listen, you know, Larry is supposed to do this despite this date. And this is what we wrote, and this is what we’re supposed to do by this date. So it makes it easier for you as a manager, just do this and I’ll do that. And, and, and this way your staff knows it, you know it, and everyone else can basically work and row at the same pace towards the same goal. Sure. Okay. Sure. That’s very important to get in writing and, and people, you know, I just so many times there’s not a wing and a prayer, and sometimes they’re afraid to get this that, you know, it’s not just intentional.

2 (21m 1s):
They just don’t want to rock the boat.

1 (21m 3s):
Yeah, I get it. I get it. No, I, I I’ve been there. I completely understand. He

2 (21m 9s):
Promised me this and I don’t want to, you don’t want to be spending a month of your time working or more, less than, and not getting something done. Okay. And one at a time you were done by the time you’re done the other person isn’t performing or hasn’t done anything. Right. So you expect them to do it otherwise. Why waste your time? Your time is your money. You

1 (21m 37s):
Know, I, I can’t tell you how many agreements that I see. And I look at, and I I’m one of the few people you’ll find that actually reads something before they sign it. Okay. If it’s really complex, I’ll get it reviewed, you know, by, by an attorney. But most things I can handle, I have a pretty decent legal mind. I mean, I’m not an attorney, but I did stay at a holiday Inn express last night, but yeah, exactly. But I find that there are so many that are one sided or have language in it that I find unacceptable. And I go, no, I’m not going to do that.

1 (22m 19s):
And so, you know, I go, this has got to come out. This has got to come out. This has got to come out. This has got to come out. So let me ask you a question. When you’re writing an agreement, what, what philosophy do you put into writing one for your clients? So it will be acceptable and fair to the other side. You

2 (22m 39s):
Want to be successful. You have gotta make sure it’s, win-win my job. And that’s part of what I bring to the table. That other attorneys, I feel that don’t bring to the table because I can’t come from a family business background. I come from the business background, like I said, I was a consumer of legal services. Before I became a provider of legal services. I had lawyers that would come in there and destroy deals that go out of their way to ruin something. But my goal is to, you know, the first thing, one of the things I do in my program that I have for my accounting program is it says goals.

2 (23m 23s):
And I write my client’s goals in there. And that’s something that I refer to all the time. And when we’re dealing with contracts, when we’re dealing with litigation, when all of this stuff is being handled, we go from these goals. We follow these goals. We say, this is what they wanted. The ultimate goal is this. So how can I make sure that this is, this is achieved. This goal is achieved without ruining it. Now, let me tell you something. Ruth I’ve had situations where I told my client, this has happened about once every couple of years, it happens. I’d say to my client, the day you’re going to go sign this contract, not the one I negotiated, but the one that was put in front of them, I will come to your office and I’ll break every knuckle in your hand, just so you wouldn’t sign this thing.

2 (24m 11s):
And I’ve said that to clients, that I’m going to come over and break your knuckle, just so you can’t sign it because it is that bad because I see stuff in there.

1 (24m 21s):
Wait a minute of my time I talk, am, am I talking to Nick or Michael cone? This is my own client. I know. I know. I know.

2 (24m 32s):
Yeah. So, but this is my own client. I tell my client and I say, look, this is why this means this. That means this. You know, these are all things. Here’s a perfect example. Now this one is, and let me tell you something. First of all, one thing that people have to understand is this is very important. No one ever came into my office and said, Mick, I knew he was a scum sucking dirt bag. That’s why I went into business with him. Okay. It’s always, oh, he was my best friend. Oh, we were neighbors for 20 years.

2 (25m 12s):
Oh, we’ve known each other in the industry forever. All of these things, no one ever came up to me and said, I knew because the devil doesn’t wear, you know, horns and red, and it’s got a little, you know, an arrow for a tail walking around, you know, talking, wearing a suit, talking to you. Okay. The devil comes off as being the angel as being friendly. So you gotta be careful about that. And another red flag is when they hold something way too big over your, over your head, you know, like perfect example, non adult industry. I have a client who started a business by herself about let’s see what, the time we were negotiating.

2 (25m 57s):
This thing was about four years ago, we got four years. She gets approached by a company that is a startup that has $80 million in backing. And they want to buy her business for $4 million. So by all standards, a very successful business, you know, that she’s running. And the way they were paying was they were paying a lot above the, the earnings and they were paying way above and they were piping everything. So the doll of the pot of gold, the $4 million. Okay. And there were paying what all parameters, like if you did a business analysis, you would say businesses worth maybe a couple of million, but 4 million is definitely double that we get this contract from New York attorney.

2 (26m 44s):
Yeah. New York attorneys. Just love to write complicated agreements. This love writing,

1 (26m 52s):
Not just New York ones, but go ahead.

2 (26m 54s):
<inaudible> bad. Yeah. I had a lease agreement for a small restaurant that was 99 pages. How can you write a 99 page lease for a restaurant? It’s just insane. But this attorney had written for a $4 million con contract, you know, Paul, you buy, let’s say 60 pages over two separate contracts.

1 (27m 17s):
That’s not.

2 (27m 18s):
Yeah. Well it’s 60 pages is okay. Actually my record is 152 page letter. Yeah. But,

1 (27m 23s):
But I mean, for a, for a buy sell, what the hell could be, ah, funny, you should ask

2 (27m 30s):
You read in there about 20 pages in there is a section and, and, you know, had I not read everything, had she not decided or having me review everything with these guys, 20 pages in, and the deal was supposed to be like over X number of years and blah, blah, blah. And it was supposed to be like $300,000 at the beginning, then $120,000 every 90 days until basically we reached a $4 million range, something like that.

1 (28m 4s):
That’s kind of a strange path.

2 (28m 7s):
It’s, it’s, it’s the path because they want it to kind of the, it was kind of golden handcuffs because they wanted her to continue to work, you know, so they wanted her to be involved and they wanted all of these things. She go about 20 pages into this contract, 20 to 25 pages into the first contract. And then I see a very interesting clause in it. It said, okay, in a very convoluted language that if we decide on firing you at any point during this next, let’s say four years, okay. That we were going to pay you. Wow. I can’t wait. We will only give you 120 day notice and thereafter basically don’t owe you a pen.

2 (28m 49s):

1 (28m 49s):
Shit. I had a feeling. It was going in that direction. Oh my God.

2 (28m 54s):
Very convoluted manner. My God, my God basically meant that they literally could find this contract. Okay. Take over the company the next day, fire her. And instead of $4 million to her 300, it was $300,000 plus 120, $120,000. Something like that. I don’t remember all the numbers. So the $4 million contractors became 10% of them.

1 (29m 22s):
She didn’t, she didn’t when they, this attorney drafted this, they didn’t think anybody was gonna review it. Did they? Nope. Because fuck

2 (29m 33s):
In the industry that she is in. Yeah. Okay. There are notorious for not reading. Okay. Interesting. But they didn’t think that the attorney was going to review it or that the attorney was going to catch it. So I immediately picked up the phone call. I said, Hey, listen, I wanted to talk to you about this section. Okay. This clause you put in there. Okay. And by the way, it took me like two, three readings first to understand what’s going on. And secondly, to believe what’s going on, it’s like, how audacious are you? Like, what the heck is this paragraph?

1 (30m 10s):
That’s that’s again, it’s, it’s, it’s borderline.

2 (30m 15s):
It is. So I basically turned around, but I called them on it and the Lord with what I have to do, what’s best for my client by ripping off the basically reaching the entire contract. So he was coming in hauling and basically trying to do the best tap, dancing job he could do. And things like that. Well, you know, they don’t want to, you know,

1 (30m 34s):
He should go, he should go on. He should go into politics. Probably. I think, I think it’s those types of attorneys were singing Congress, by the way.

2 (30m 44s):
Yeah. Well, I don’t know we started on now, but that’s the kind of thing that you see. And if you’re not careful because the pot at the end was so big, you know? Yeah.

1 (30m 58s):
But, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t as it seemed,

2 (31m 2s):
No, it wasn’t as a team, we negotiated that right away. And then we went in there and I basically, at that point I was on like, I was on high alert. So I was going through that thing. I always go through a fine tooth comb. I went through, I think three times. And it was a fine tooth comb because I didn’t want to be, anyone would be scamming me or my clients or anything. And I didn’t trust them. And guess what? That deal eventually broke up. Not because of the course, but because they finally found out that the sorry, or I don’t know if they found out, but they knew that had they paid the $4 million, the dollars just weren’t there.

2 (31m 44s):

1 (31m 44s):
Right. If they had made a reasonable offer and you know, they could have been negotiated, but they wanted to steal it instead that’s

2 (31m 53s):
Broke. They, they, they broke the deal up because they couldn’t scam her. Right. And now the dollars wasn’t there, not now, they had the, the, the $4 million, you know, where they could have basically broken up after 2 million, after 1 million, whatever what’s financially feasible for them. All of a sudden they find out, oh my God, we can’t do this. So that was one

1 (32m 17s):
Of the cases. It’s funny, funny.

2 (32m 19s):
But again, this is what everyone needs to apply. You know, it’s written in the terms and conditions in the blah-blah-blah section, I call it because we all read that first section that says a and party B. And then we read the, you know, the recital, which has a, it’s supposed to do this B, it’s supposed to do this. And then you to the terms and conditions where everyone’s eyes glaze over. Right. I read them, I read them. So I

1 (32m 49s):
Get it. Not most, not many people do.

2 (32m 53s):
Sorry. One more thing in your audience, please. I don’t care how old you are. Start reading them. Even if you don’t get them the first time you read it, read it a second time and a third time, and maybe even draw a little chart for yourself that Bob is supposed to do this. Larry is supposed to do this six. I get back and forth. Whatever. Let me explain why that’s important by the time you’re on your third, fourth, fifth agreement, you get an eye for it as jibberish as it sounds sure it’s English. It becomes English where you might adjust.

2 (33m 35s):
It’s like me and take doc. The first time I was ticked off for the first day or two, it was like, my God, why is everything so fast? Why is everything 15? Like, oh my God, I can’t even focus on these videos are so fast. Now, any video that goes more than 30 seconds. Oh my God, this is so boring. Why is this taking so long? Okay. Your brain adjusts, your eyes adjust. And by the way, if you see a big legal word, like not even a big, like, whereas just put your thumb over it and the rest of the sentence without the whereas make sense.

1 (34m 4s):
Yeah, I got it. I got it. Yeah. You gotta read it, but better than reading it, six times hire an attorney. I say it all the time. People ask me, well, people are asking for legal advice, like on X biz or GF, why they’re saying, well, I’ve got this contract and what do I do about this? I go hire an attorney. Well, but hire an attorney. I mean, that’s my answer to everything. And that’s what I do. You know, I, when I, when I want to get my car fixed, I don’t try to fix it. Hire a mechanic. When I, when I have legal issues, I’ll hire an attorney. When I, you, when I, when something hurts, I go to the doctor. So anyway,

2 (34m 45s):
No, we’re more expensive than hiring an attorney,

1 (34m 48s):
Not hiring an attorney late. Yeah, no shit. So that kind of leads into this, you know, many people in our industry, like we talked about, don’t treat it like a business. How dangerous is that?

2 (35m 1s):
It’s extremely dangerous. Okay. Because of not only it can be your bench, your, you know, business deal, like where you sign a contract, where your outlay could be way more than the money that you’re getting. It could be a $10,000 contract to you, but it could be a hundred thousand dollars in damages that they’re going to claim when you don’t perform. Or if there’s something goes wrong. Right. So a hundred thousand dollars damage could be, you know, bankruptcy. Right, right. So it, it could be a bet, your business kind of a thing.

2 (35m 43s):
And when we’re most people like us, when we were, self-employed like, I am, you know, our business is our life. You know, we do spend the night, you know, waking up and you’re wearing, what was the, I tell another thing to my at UCLA class is, you know, the old joke is, you know, ever since I went into business for myself, I sleep like a baby. I wake up every two hours and cry.

1 (36m 5s):
That’s an old one. It’s an old one. But it’s true also. Yeah. I see a lot of lawsuits in our industry, especially from certain attorneys, when should someone Sue and when shouldn’t they shoot,

2 (36m 21s):
Oh boy, it’s such an open-ended question. Okay. A few things I would look for in deciding whether I want to Sue on the contract. Okay. On a business matter. The, why am I saying business matter if this was family law and they’re going through a divorce, they hate each other so much. They’ll spend $50,000 to collect that. That makes no sense. Right? They’ll do anything just to put a finger in the other person’s eye for business, you have to have a bit of a, you have to do the capitalists.

2 (37m 1s):
You have to do the calculations to make sure that it makes sense for you. Yeah.

1 (37m 5s):
But a lot of, a lot of business breakups for like divorces and people get really, really, really upset

2 (37m 12s):
Partnerships are a partnership breaks up a breakup and shareholder breakups, you know, everyone says partnership, but in reality, most of the time it’s SharePoint, the breakup is one of the second biggest things. As far as your emotions. Well, actually third, most important thing. I would put family number one, landlord tenant, number two, surprisingly, because when people like attack the way you will fight tooth and nail, and the third one would be partnership breakout. Yes. The issue is when should the question, sorry, going back to your question was when should you decide to Sue? It depends if it’s substantial sum of money, if it’s reputational that someone is destroying your reputation and it’s going to cost you more than the $10,000, that is at issue more than the $5,000 at an issue, definitely consider that.

2 (38m 8s):
Other thing you have to look at is one of the most important things that people need to understand is litigation is like a beauty contest. Okay. And because I’m so handsome, I win all, not kidding. So, but it is a beauty contest. So if you have your hand is dirty, take that into consideration as part of your, whether you Sue or not. I tell my clients, if that other side has done X, Y, and Z, and they’re all an ethical and bad and everything, that’s still doesn’t justify you doing a, B and C, because that comes out in litigation.

2 (38m 53s):
And I forced, the judge sits there and lift it’s a bench trial, which means only the judge decides, you know, the judge sits there and goes, okay, well, that guy did X, Y, and Z that’s bad, but you did a, B and C. And then I have to basically weigh which one was a worst conduct. If one side has just on the XYZ, the bad stuff, and you were clean, the judges will bend over back. Moshe did not all, you know, most judges will bend over backwards to try to have you win jewelries, do the same thing too, because they don’t want to be voting for someone that did something bad.

2 (39m 34s):
They don’t want to be saying, I’m putting my, you know, I’m voting for this guy because this guy is because then it becomes a curse upon both of your houses. So that’s another thing that you got to take into consideration in that is who did what, who, who was doing, how, you know, the actual third thing I would recommend. I think by the way, this list can go on forever. But third important factor that at once I would consider is collectability. Yes. Okay. The person has to be collectible that I can win judgements against so many people.

2 (40m 14s):
Okay. But are we able to collect it? Some kinds we do it because we have to do it. We have to prove to the world outside that we went and we enforced our rights because it’s reputational for us either. You know, it would look bad for us if we don’t do it, or people think that they’re going to get away with it by not paying us. Okay. We’re not taking care of we’re doing what they’re supposed to do with the company. So there’s the reputational. Then you have to kind of spend the money and go after this person because you want to make sure that there is an issue, right? Other times it’s not reputational. Other times, it’s, it’s just a matter of, you know, $50,000, but it’s not collectible or it’s going to cost me a lot to collect it.

2 (41m 1s):
Sure. And by the way, let your lawyer decide, okay. Or help you decide. Correct. I collected a $14,000 judgment in back in 2007. I got one, sorry, not collected. I’ve got a judgment for $14,000 in 2007, right. I immediately put, leans on, you know, what we call it abstract of judgment. This is by the way, California law, abstract of judgment everywhere. And I didn’t see anything about that for years. Last year we collected $42,000.

1 (41m 38s):
Well, my clients,

2 (41m 39s):
$14,000 judgment gets in California. It gets 10% simple interest.

1 (41m 44s):
Nice, nice.

2 (41m 46s):
So after all these years we negotiated our, I think we ended up giving her a couple of thousand off just to be, you know, somebody good. I think 40, 42, we got something like that. But we of course it at the time the person thought, eh, you know, you got a judge and again, he’s still white. I’m not going to pay the 14. Right. Okay. I had no idea that I had laid all these traps around and these traps basically had liens on their property.

1 (42m 11s):
Right. Go to when they go to, when they go to sell their property, they’ve nor their business state, they’ve got to pay them.

2 (42m 18s):
They’ve got to pay the lien before they do it. And another thing that, you know, that is dangerous, I’ve had this happen. I had a one person who was hiding all of their assets before they entered into business with my client. We went, we won, we got the judgment and the guy goes, I’m going to collectible. I don’t have any assets. And eventually that became true because the family member that they trusted with their assets took the assets.

1 (42m 54s):
Karma’s a bitch, much of litigation. These days comes from social work.

2 (43m 1s):
I’ve had a few cases on the social media. Like I get a lot of, one of the biggest things I get right now is, is when we have a shareholders basically breaking apart. And I tell everyone I’m worried about the divorce, not the wedding. You know what I mean with them? I worry about not everyone is all lovey w right down in my conference room. And I love you when you wake up, you know, I love you, you know, things like that. I’m thinking about when I hit, you know, I hit you, you know, things like that. And let’s put it in writing now, wireless cheaper, you know, and write it up. It’s some of these sentences that I write some of these paragraphs that I write in these operating agreements, or, you know, a buy-sell agreements between, between two shareholders, things like that.

2 (43m 48s):
It takes me maybe a minute to write, but that one minute saved 50 hours of legal time. Okay. If I write some simple thing, like venue, venue, like takes me what, 10 seconds, the right venue. But that can save my client thousands and thousands of dollars. Right.

1 (44m 12s):
I get that. But I mean, but I mean, w where do you, in the agreement and the initial agreement protecting against one partner, slandering the other partner in the case of a breakup or

2 (44m 24s):
<inaudible> social media aspect of it. Whenever they break up, whenever they break up, I invariably get a call from my client saying, oh, he’s slamming me on the social media. And then I go and look, and it’s not slamming you. It’s just basically saying, well, I’m no longer involved with so-and-so company. And I just didn’t feel like continuing working with them.

1 (44m 53s):
But, but what if, what if they really do slander them on social?

2 (44m 57s):
Well, a liable, because once it’s written, it’s liable, slander is when you say verbal, verbal. Yeah. Verbal. Yeah. Always remember S for speech. Yeah. So if it’s liable, if it’s a libelous conduct, yes. We can go after that and make sure you get the screenshots, make sure you do the HTML B. I want to make sure as much information as you have

1 (45m 23s):
Down before

2 (45m 24s):
It gets taken down. So the problem there sometimes is showing damages. Yes. But on certain things that the law believes damages are a given.

1 (45m 43s):
Well, what if somebody, what if somebody writes a Bruce Friedman stole for me and you know, something along those lines and I, didn’t nothing of the sort, would that be liable?

2 (45m 57s):
That that would be liable if you did no such thing, because the only real defense to libel is the truth, you know, and they have to come in there and they have to prove that you did that, that you stole something. Got it. Now, if they printed that out on, on social media, what, what you will do at that time is you will do the following. You will file your lawsuit and have to ask them to take it. We’ll ask them to take it down if they don’t take it down. But the damages, the argument I would make in a case like that was it’s a business reputational damage. Yes, yes.

2 (46m 37s):
Okay. And that the court will see as more of a less proof there’s less proof needed. Yeah. Okay. Sure. If, if I’m just, you know, there’s a few areas like, like in the old days, I don’t know if it’s still, you know, but, but like if you questioned the chastity of a woman, okay. The law assume automatically that there was damages. The woman didn’t have to prove that, oh, I couldn’t get married to, you know, sir, Bridget, you know, I guess, whatever it is and not show or this and that, or, or the Duco lecture stir.

2 (47m 18s):
Okay. Whatever, because they slandered my reputation. The government assumed the courts assume that certain business reputation, the chassis of a woman that gives there is damage. Okay. Now there’s going to be, the other side is going to say, well, what was the damage? What business deals did you lose? But it’s going to be hard for you to prove, because it’s going to be hard for you to prove like, yeah, 10 people would have called me, but nine of them didn’t how do you know?

1 (47m 51s):
Yeah. So that’s a good point. That’s a really good point. It makes for a good argument makes for a good argument.

2 (47m 58s):
That’s their argument. But my reputation, my argument would be business reputation, know how do I can approve nine people didn’t call just because they saw it that, yeah. But we can see that, you know, it was a public post. That person has thousand followers. They sent this, they sat down and all of these things that there was, there was an issue, but at the same high you’ll have to, you’ll have to also be careful because, you know, in this country we have free speech. And by the way, one of the things that people have to understand, and they keep telling me, it’s like, oh my God, free speech, free speech, free speech. No, no, no. The free speech clause is there for the government not to pass any laws that restricts your speech.

2 (48m 41s):

1 (48m 42s):
Right. It’s right there in the first amendment. Yeah.

2 (48m 44s):
It’s for the government. It puts limitations on the government. Not the people doesn’t give you carte blanche, but at the same time, you can’t just come in there and basically, you know, liable or standard or someone’s reputation, right. By the way, another thing that you gotta know, it’s gotta be published with a third party. You and me talking to each other. And I say, bro, she stole my money from me. That’s not slander.

1 (49m 7s):
Okay. Okay. What are some of the basic business things people need to know?

2 (49m 13s):
Okay. So let’s, let’s this one I’m going to shift a little bit from someone that has got an ongoing business to someone that’s a brand new business. Okay. If you’re starting a brand new business, either as talent, okay. You were starting this business and nowadays, miss y’all, everyone incorporating in California and blah, blah, blah, this other stuff. And if they’re doing that, they come in there and they have to think about it. That I have to build this proper foundation. The proper foundation is very important and the proper foundation comes from getting a good accounting program, get QuickBooks, get whatever you want.

2 (49m 59s):
There’s all these cloud-based accounts right now. But get an accounting program spent about a day or two learning it. Okay. This way you need to know whether this is worth it you’re worth your time or not your time. Okay. In addition to that, you need to basically of course do 800 different things. The class I teach at UCLA is that developing a business plan class. And it’s a 11 week course. And it’s like a mini business school and we cover marketing and sales. And you know, by the way, they’re not the same thing. A lot of people come to computer marketing. I

1 (50m 34s):
Know that being a marketing guy, that’s one of my, that that’s that that’s a, that’s a sore spot with me. So thank you for bringing that up for sure.

2 (50m 43s):
Yeah. You know, we go through all of these aspects and one of the first things I say is make sure you get that good accounting program, learn the accounting program. It’s good to know. Be able to, it’s like having a baseball game where you don’t know how many strikes, how many balls, you know, how you know, what’s the score? What is the point? You know, just basically, you know, this, the guy who’s just swinging and swinging and swinging and no one’s keeping score, you got to keep score. And the accounting programs, what keeps score. Second thing is you gotta decide whether you want to form a corporation or an LLC or not. People ask me this all the time, especially new business people. Do I form it? Do I not form it? Do I form it? Do I not form? If you’re like a company that’s, that’s just starting or some of us have you’re doing production or you doing editing or something like that.

2 (51m 30s):
You have to look at a few things to decide whether you form a corporation or an LLC limited liability company. One of them is what are you doing? Okay. What is that? Is it dangerous? Could it have dangerous implications? Like if you edit something wrong, if you don’t make proper background, a backup of it, you lose the raw footage. You know, who’d you be sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars

1 (51m 59s):
In liability. The liability,

2 (52m 1s):
Is it large? Then you want to have that corporation. I have people that say I’m in the cupcake business. And I say, you’ve got to find a corporation right now and make sure you got insured up to the ears. One bad batch, one bad thing of butter. And you’ve got a party full of sick people

1 (52m 23s):
Or, or something or something that, that goes into a cockroach crawls into it or, or something poisonous ends up in it.

2 (52m 32s):
Exactly. So you gotta be careful. So if you’re in the food business form a corporation, get yourself insured. If you’re, if you’re hiring employees, you hire a company, you form a company. If you have partners, you form a company and,

1 (52m 51s):
And get a partnership agreement.

2 (52m 53s):
Oh no, not a partnership agreement. That’s where you gotta be very careful. Okay.

1 (52m 59s):
Oh, that’s right. You’re forming like forming a company, right?

2 (53m 2s):
Forming a company is a shareholders for a company or a corporation or an LLC. It’s memberships.

1 (53m 11s):

2 (53m 12s):
Now why is this the most dangerous, horrible thing in the world is, and this is what you have to avoid, like the plague. Okay. And that is the general partnership. Why? Because it’s unlimited liability for the conduct of the other person. So if you and I walk into Bob’s office and said, we’re going to starting a editing business and we can do whatever you want or blah, blah, blah, blah, this and that.

2 (53m 52s):
The other thing. Okay. And you walk out, both of you guys walk out, just basically having formed the corporation. I’m, haven’t done an LLC having that, anything you walk out and you like, you’re getting your part and your partner gets in that car, his in his car, I’ll get in my car. Then once you leave, I go back upstairs and I tell the guy, Hey, listen. I was thinking something. If you give us a hundred thousand dollars up front, we can start this business. And instead of giving it to you for $10,000 a job, we’ll do it for you for $8,000 a job.

2 (54m 34s):
And Bob, does it guess what Bruce, everything you own is also responsible for that a hundred thousand dollars because general partnerships, which is a just, and it’s easy to get into my friend. That’s it. You just present yourself as that as it’s business people together. That’s why one of the things I look at whenever I’m with someone is their business card. Yeah. I look at the business card and I see, okay, does this say incorporation? Does it say LLC? No nothing. Then I go check the state databases, find out if they’re a corporation.

2 (55m 15s):
I go, guess what? I got these two personally liable. And I got both of them liable. Even if one of them does it, by the way, it could be nothing. Even intentionally relationship. If the person is driving their car, while they’re doing something for the business crashes, the car killed someone and they only have $15,000 in insurance. They’re both liable. They would both be liable by the way, the insurance for what people don’t know is your car insurance for your regular car. Insurance is not good enough necessarily for business insurance. So it’s true. So they gotta be careful about that.

1 (55m 57s):
You gotta have business insurance. That’s another thing.

2 (55m 59s):
Well, you got to have business insurance. That’s another thing that protects you. And then there, you gotta hop. You know, if you’re going to be a bigger company directors and officers insurance, you know, to protect you from getting sued or, you know, if something happens, you know? So, so these are some of the things that you have to do. So going back to the thing, form a corporation, if you’re with anyone else, if you’re with poor man, LLC, you know, and, and I’m not going to go into all the tax ramifications with the LLC versus the corporation or the S-corp or a C Corp, but all this stuff that the California has. But again, I’m either an LLC or a corporation because that protects your personal assets to a certain extent.

2 (56m 42s):
Okay? You still have to follow all the corporate formalities and pay all the taxes and all these. Think of it. As additional insurance provided by the state for you to have less personal liability. And by having less liability, guess what happens? You get this sleep better.

1 (57m 2s):
You don’t wake up every two hours crying like a baby.

2 (57m 5s):
Well, he used to wake up every two hours if you have payroll, but that’s not as bad. Maybe every three hours, that’s sleeping. Think of it as sleeping. So now whether you form a business, you always form a corporation. Now, if you have a partner, okay, it was not a partner. It should mean when, if you have a another shareholder or if you go to being an investor, Charney needs to write it for someone that knows what they’re doing, because yeah, it’s good to say we’re 50, 50, but sometimes it’s 70 30 and things like that. And if I represent the one, that’s a 30% owner, I make sure certain things I need 71% of the shares before it passes.

2 (57m 55s):
Otherwise, guess what? The person that has 70% of the shares has more than 50% everything they want carries.

1 (58m 2s):
Yes. Yes. That’s absolutely true. Well, Nick, how can someone contact you about all that?

2 (58m 11s):
Oh, well we have several ways. Well, the, my email is, is one way. It’s Nick, N I C Okay. So Z a R L a w F I R So Nick has our law You can also go to our website, czar law of course. And then my phone number. And again, I answer my phones myself, because it’s not even worth the headache of this going there. And we returned phone calls as fast as we can, unless I’m going to be able to try call them at 3:00 AM. No, let’s not do that. I had opposing counsel do that to me last, last week.

2 (58m 51s):
Bastard. Yeah, 1:45 AM. And I told him 1:45 AM. What the heck? You know, I said, and he at two 15, he texted me a second time. Fuck. And I just went off on him and that’s going to cost his client a lot of money. So what’s the, what’s the number? The phone number is four two four two four zero eight, seven 44. Call it again.

1 (59m 20s):
Call today. Operators are standing by God. So go ahead and say, say it again.

2 (59m 25s):
Four, two, four, two four zero eight seven four four.

1 (59m 31s):
Well, Nick, I know we could talk a lot more and I’m sure we will on a subsequent podcast, but I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk.

2 (59m 40s):
Okay. Thank you very much for having me Ruth and you know, everyone again, nothing is worse than nothing more expensive than hiring a lawyer than hiring a lawyer late. Just remember that.

1 (59m 50s):
Okay. Thanks, Nick. My broker tip today is part four of how to buy a website. Last week, we discussed making an offer and deciding the best price for the site you’re buying. Once you’ve made your offer. The work begins. If you’re working with a broker, like say, oh, I don’t know, maybe adult site broker, we handle the negotiation for you. Let’s say the seller doesn’t accept your offer. They may make a counter offer. If you decide that you’re willing to pay more, you can either accept their counter offer or counter back to them. A good rule of thumb is to always leave room to negotiate. So don’t make an offer. That’s the absolute most you’re willing to pay. If you do that, then you have nowhere to go.

1 (1h 0m 31s):
If the owner counters your offer, once the owner and you have come to a deal, then it’s time to do some due diligence beyond what it is you’ve already done. During the initial process of looking at the site, you should have asked some questions like in the case of a pay site, how many joins and rebuilds there are per day and other pertinent questions during due diligence, you need to make sure everything is where you need it to be technically to integrate it with what you’re already doing. You may even get your developer involved. If you’re not tech savvy, you and or your developer should ask these pertinent questions. Once those are answered to your satisfaction, you should either have the seller or yourself drop a sales agreement.

1 (1h 1m 12s):
I always tell my clients to do the agreement. Why? Because that way you can dictate the terms. So whether you’re the buyer or the seller, you can make the rules. However, just be ready to have the seller’s attorney change. Some of those rules, nothing is final until everything is signed off on. Another thing we can do for our clients is to do a letter of intent prior to the sales agreement being done. This gives your attorney a roadmap for the agreement, the letter of intent and more so the agreement will have all of the terms involved, including who pays for everything who pays for escrow for instance, is, can be paid by the buyer, the seller, or split between both parties.

1 (1h 1m 52s):
We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to entrepreneur, Jack Armstrong of Magnum Rings.

0 (1h 2m 2s):
And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Nick Zargarpour. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Nina Saini.

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1 (1m 25s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale. At adult side broker, we are proud to offer one of the longest running adult review sites. The site is a true pioneer in the review space. It has built a reputation for its quality of reviews with over 28,000 full and original reviews. It’s a leader in this space. The side has a wide range of columns and photo galleries. The site is powered by a custom design CMS, which enables a staff of reviewers to request titles for review, have them emailed and tracked, and then submitted it as a review to the database. The flow is pretty seamless and it’s been rocking and rolling for many years.

1 (2m 5s):
The team at this site is filled with adult entertainment enthusiasts. Everyone works remotely. All of the sites marketing is organic, which is a tremendous opportunity for a buyer with a traffic network or who wants to purchase traffic all this for only $299,000. Now time for this week’s interview.

2 (2m 27s):
My guest today on the adult side, broker talk is Nina

1 (2m 30s):
Sky. Skyzone Nina. Thanks for being with us today on adult side, broker talk,

3 (2m 36s):
Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Now. Nina is global

2 (2m 40s):
Marketing director at concept to consumer collective. That’s a mouthful and she’s also the founder of media bitch. I love that name. My God, they, they are industry experts in sexual wellness and sex tech concept to consumer as a new sexual wellness and sex tech global collective talk about a tongue twister created to do, to deliver sex toy concepts and true sex tech innovation into reality, which it surely needs. The company was established by industry experts. The collective offers be spoke service to its clients. I’d love that word. Just bespoke. It’s used so much in the UK.

1 (3m 21s):
Let’s start out here. Tell me about yourself, Nina. Well,

3 (3m 26s):
I’ve been working in the adult space for about 16 years now and like res it was not intentional. I was working immediate prior and through a chance meeting, I was asked if I’d be interested in marketing, a product called the cone, which launched, I think back in 2005, and that was it. So I turned out, it turned out that I was very good at marketing sex toys who knew and I’ve stayed ever since. So from there, kind of then developed working with lots of different sex toy brands all over as well as kind of on online retailers, bricks and mortar stores.

3 (4m 7s):
W what, with a few porn companies, as well as being involved in organizing national consumer sexual lifestyle shows as well. So it’s kind of a whole range. So that’s kind of a, kind of my background in a nutshell,

2 (4m 23s):
What’d you do what’d you do before adult

3 (4m 25s):
I’ve worked in television? So I was working in television production. I, yes. So I was working in television production predominantly in the entertainment space. And then I set up media bitch in 2002 in between jobs, and then ended up working with quite a few clients in art, a bit of fashion, probably the most well-known is a guy called <inaudible>, who designed all the album covers for pink Floyd and led that plan. So I worked with organizing art shows for him, as well as handling their PR side of things as well. So that was really great from what, so what is media bitch?

3 (5m 7s):
It’s a consultancy that handles works in the adult space predominantly now, and we handle marketing and business development. So I kind of go in and see what the client wants, and then we kind of cater to helping them, whatever would their objectives are for that business. Okay. It’s very unique. So there’s not a kind of like a set, you know, like some companies say, right, we’re going to work with this company and this is what we’re going to do. And it’s the same for every client. So I worked very closely with my clients and I think I’ve been really lucky to work with some brilliant people, some brilliant companies. And I think that’s, what’s kept me in the adult space as well.

3 (5m 50s):
I think any consultancy

2 (5m 52s):
And I’m a consultant myself, I think any consultancy that has a preconceived notion, how they’re going to help a client before they ask the client how they can help them is making a huge mistake. The sad part about that is that that’s how most people do it. Absolutely.

3 (6m 10s):
And I think that, you know, I don’t take on clients just to say, oh, let’s just take them on it’s about whether I can actually do something for them. And sometimes clients aren’t ready. And so you have to say, well, actually, I don’t think you’re ready for this, for what they might have come to me for. And I’ll say, well, we’re not ready for this. I think you need to go back and do X, Y, Z, and then let’s touch base thereafter.

2 (6m 34s):
Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree. 300%. And I’ve done that so many times and refuse to take people’s money.

1 (6m 41s):
And I still do that today with the adult site broker,

2 (6m 44s):
I’ll go, you know what? You’re not ready to sell because of this. Maybe it’s because you’re leaving money on the table. And if you grow it a little bit more, it’s going to be worth something. Or it’s going to be worth a lot more. Or these people come to me with these platforms. I got an email like that today and oh, we built this great whatever, and now we want to sell it. I go, is it making money? They go, no, no, we just created it. We created a platform. People don’t buy platforms, they buy successful businesses. So I have to give them the bad news that, you know, what all this money and time you put into it, you missed a very important step bringing it to market.

2 (7m 33s):
And if you

1 (7m 33s):
Don’t bring it to market, guess

2 (7m 36s):
What? No buddy’s gone. I want it. Especially in 2021, I don’t want to S a, you invented the new sliced bread or whatever the hell, but I don’t think people would even know. So what, what prompted the creation of concept to consumer?

3 (7m 53s):
We just realized that obviously the market is changing and it’s adapting. So we wanted to create something that would best service this changing climate. And we also saw strength then kind of working together and kind of using everybody, bringing in their expertise. And they’ve all got different. We’ve all got different knowledge. We’ve got experiences and we’ve got resources. So it was pulling that talent together to create solutions and provide a wider breadth of services. So for example, you know, you get some companies and I’m sure you’re familiar with this breeze where, you know, you have one company, they all hire a PR agency. Then they’ll hire a social media agency. Then they’ll hire, you know, that, you know, their manufacturers is elsewhere and none of them are speaking to each other.

3 (8m 39s):
No. So there’s no consistency in brand. And there’s no kind of thought behind the action is just everybody going off. So one of the things that we wanted to do was kind of create an integrated marketing, well, not just marketing, that’s a service that will whichever whatever thing you, we would work with you and make sure all those working parts fit together.

2 (8m 60s):
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s, that makes all the sense in the world and you’re absolutely right. Most people do it wrong. So who is C to C collective aim, debt, existing industry firms, brand new startups, mainstream brands looking to move into the pleasure sector, or I’m going to guess all of the above and you’re absolutely right. Freestyle.

1 (9m 26s):
That’s amazing. Okay.

3 (9m 28s):
You know, it’s all about, I think, you know, we want to promote the adult and sexual wellness, MarTech market in a positive light. You know, I think what’s been great is as times progressed, it’s become more and more mainstream. I know when I started personally, you know, you would pick up the phone, you would try and sell, you know, talk about pleasure products and people just hang up on you. You know, they, it was completely different. And now obviously what is great is the market has evolved. You are seeing sexual wellness more in the mainstream space and it has become more accepted. So we want to aim to support the people who are already in the industry that may need help with Sarah various elements of their business.

3 (10m 13s):
And we also want to let people know that if they are looking to come into this space, that one we know that is potentially lucrative and that we can kind of help with startups and entrepreneurs, product designers, or patent holders and help them get their product to market. I mean, cause we’ve been there, you know, we’ve all collectively, you know, excuse the pun. We’ve all gone through this experience. You know, we’ve worked with start ups and you know, we’ve gone through. And I think, you know, personally, I feel really lucky to have worked with some great startup companies that you kind of get an all around experience of what it takes to take that product to market. Right. And as you mentioned earlier, it’s not as simple as saying I built it and they, you know, and they will come.

3 (10m 57s):
It’s now about brand positioning. It’s about marketing that and it’s reaching that end consumer. So I think from our experiences and, and our mistakes in the early days, you know, you can people who come to us, we’ll be able to take advantage of that experience. And because we’ve got those resources in house and because we’re all talking to each other in that truly Burt core and integrated way, you know, it’s all on the same, you know, we’ve all got the same consistency. We’re all working towards the same goal. Right. You know, let’s say that

2 (11m 32s):
I’m a mainstream brand. Cause I find this very interesting that you do this and I’m looking to move into pleasure products. How would you address that? And what would you do for me?

3 (11m 45s):
It would be kind of, obviously it would be looking at the kind of demographic I think initially to see where you want to, who are you targeting, what’s your end goal and then kind of create that brand positioning for you and the concepts behind it. And then obviously look at the range of products we do have because we do have a lot of patent technologies and cutting edge technologies that are incorporated in the product range that we have available. So we will talk you through that process and then help market that to the targeted demographic to bring it to market. I know that’s a really kind of condensed version and obviously it’s a lot more complicated, but it is, we do have a process to go through like how we like to do take a product to market.

3 (12m 35s):
So it is very much working with the client and what their ideals are, but also managing expectations or taking something to market because obviously the market is becoming more saturated and we are seeing more and more mainstream brands becoming, you know, coming into this space. But again, it’s about doing it, right. And why not go to people who, you know, been there, done it as opposed to going to somebody who might not have any experience in that space. Right. Right. I mean, in the past I’ve worked with companies that have asked me to meet with their award-winning PR companies who are getting paid, you know, very nicely indeed.

3 (13m 21s):
And then you go in and it becomes quite apparent that they don’t know how to position that product to the, to the mainstream market, to the end consumer, but they’re getting the business, but they’re not kind of, they, they don’t understand that it is a different beast.

2 (13m 38s):
Well, they don’t know anything about adult. No. Yeah, yeah. I get it. I get it.

1 (13m 45s):
So if I’m a mainstream brand, why

2 (13m 48s):
Would I move into pleasure products? I mean, I mean, what would, what would be my incentive?

3 (13m 54s):
Well, I think people are looking to diversify in terms of business. We do know it’s a very profitable, potentially profitable sector. And I think as wellness as a whole is becoming more mainstream and brands are looking at other ways to diversify is another revenue stream. So we are seeing more and more brands coming in. You just look at, you know, I’d only look at companies like goop, for example, or clothing brands or kind of pharmaceutical companies. So they are looking to diversify. And I think what’s happened with the pandemic is people are looking at different ways that isn’t necessarily tied into a bricks and mortar traditional way of doing business.

3 (14m 38s):
Tell us a little bit

2 (14m 40s):
About who you’ve been able to add as experts to the collective besides yourself. Of course,

3 (14m 46s):
We’ve got great experts on board from all over the world. So some of which are people like Dr. Sonny Rogers, who’s a very established sexologist. We’ve got Toon, Timmermans from kuru. Who’s brilliant with technology and online platforms in interactivity. We’ve got automobile Brian, who’s got a wealth of development, knowledge and injury industry insight. We’ve got Mark Phillips and tofa Taylor who bring on that LGBTQ experience and knowledge. So those are just some of the few people that we have. We have got more, which are to be announced in due course. So it’s the idea of constantly expanding in our collective of experts so we can help one help each other and help people within the industry and new businesses coming into this space.

2 (15m 37s):
Now you mentioned LGBTQ, it seems to me anyway, that there, that there’s just an amazing amount of potential for men’s sex health products.

3 (15m 52s):
Absolutely. I would agree with that. I think it’s been interesting because when I initially one of the earlier clients I worked with was a male sexual brand and it’s been quite interesting watching that transition from why people still giggle when it comes to male sex products. So, you know, that’s kind of adapting and I think also the whole gender lists marketing for sex toys. So obviously with the increase of, you know, gender fluid and binary identities, I think that’s another interesting market to watch in terms of how brands will then go on to talk to and communicate to those kinds of customers.

3 (16m 39s):
Now you seem to have

2 (16m 40s):
A mainstream marketing business involved with Derek block and his touchstone business. How does having a non-industry business support your overall concept?

3 (16m 51s):
Well, actually with Derek and his business, they he’s got an ex actually got an extensive background and knowledge in the adult space. So we’ve known him for about 12 years and he’s been buying and sourcing products quietly and discreetly for one of the biggest U S adult businesses. He’s got a fantastic team and his speciality is the brand building and bringing new insight and creative skills outside of the market. So it’s kind of like a marriage, I think, you know, bringing that fresh high aspect and then combining it with our adult experience. So his development is a kind of like brand first where you build out a strong sustained and a strong vision, which I think is invaluable.

3 (17m 35s):
And especially if you want a brand to last in this market, you know, and have that potential to grow.

2 (17m 41s):
Okay. Now is the concept of C to C based around offering a complete service and how so

3 (17m 49s):
It’s both. So yes is the easy answer on that one. We are a fully integrated business, so we can take a kind of any idea and help create, make that into a reality. So what we’ve got in house is in-house designers, product engineers, Brandon concept, creatives, marketing professionals, web, and e-commerce specialists, as well as all of the manufacturing capabilities that our wing power provides. Well, who’s obviously one of our partners we’ve got post-production. We can help with logistics, warehousing, fulfillment, and more, you know, we want this to be, will inclusive, and we’ve got lots of people and service providers involved in the business, which is why we’re actively building our power expert advisory panel with like-minded people.

3 (18m 36s):
And we’re happy to talk to anybody that might want to talk to us.

2 (18m 40s):
That’s awesome.

3 (18m 41s):
You know, I think there’s enough space for all of us and it’s about sharing the love. It’s not just about mine and I’m not going to help you. You know, I think those days are gone and I think it’s about adapting and helping each other for sustainability of the industry.

2 (18m 58s):
Yeah. And I think, you know, this industry has always kind of been that way we’re competitors to work together. So it’s a, it’s kind of a big kumbaya thing.

3 (19m 9s):
I think it’s been great. I mean, I absolutely love working in the adult industry. I’ve got fantastic friends from all over the world and you know, and the fact that we’re still friends in, you know, over the 16 year period, at least for myself, and you know, that you can pick up the phone, doesn’t matter how long it’s been that you’ve seen each other. It’s just like, like you just pick up where you left off.

2 (19m 32s):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s why not having trade shows has been tough because I tell people that every time there’s a trade show, it’s like a family reunion and yeah. Yeah. I miss my family. I miss my family.

3 (19m 47s):
I miss the hugs. Yes. Yes.

2 (19m 50s):
I’m, I’m a big, I’m a big hugger. So yeah, I, I, I definitely miss that. I hope those come back anyway. So will a client need to have a lot of money to bring an idea that they sketched out on a coaster, say to market through your services?

3 (20m 11s):
I think our services is, you know, it’s exceedingly competitive, we’re targeted, we’re focused, we’re focused. Unlike a lot of startups spend, you know, we’ll be looking, you know, companies already invest considerable amounts to various companies to get to that point. And none of it is integrated and complimentary. So I think with the collective, you know, offering that integrated complimentary service, we do have very clear and open and straightforward price. And we want to have long-term strategic relationship with our clients and we want them to succeed. You know, I always say it’s not just about succeeding for the client. I want to succeed for us as well.

3 (20m 52s):
So we’re just as invested in the success of our clients as they are.

2 (20m 58s):
Okay. Well, let’s say, you know, they did jot this idea out on a, on a placemat or on a

4 (21m 5s):
Coaster or a, or a, or

2 (21m 9s):
What they put their beer on and they don’t have money. Do you, can you address that as well? Do you, do you have investment people?

3 (21m 19s):
It is something we’re looking to develop as having an investment fund as well. So yeah. Watch this space.

2 (21m 26s):
Oh, you got it. I will. I definitely will. Now let’s say a client wants to just cherry pick from the services you offer. If, if he or she already has some experience on board, can they do that?

3 (21m 41s):
Absolutely. I mean, if somebody wants just one element of what we’re offering, that is absolutely fine, we can do that. We will, we will quite for that particular service that they’re after and scope out the work that needed for that service. So the idea is, is wherever you are on that journey with your product or your brand, we can integrate and support that journey.

2 (22m 2s):
Okay. Okay. Now let’s say a mainstream brand that has never worked in adult creates a range of sex toys for it. How do you think existing players in the adult market would react?

3 (22m 17s):
It’s already happening first and foremost. So I think it’s a case now for us to adapt to what’s already happening. We can’t stop, you know, the train’s already left the platform, it’s going through the tunnel it’s happening. So it’s a case of us now adapting to that. So we can either go with it or be left behind, you know, we can jump on that train with we’re left on the platform. So I think there’s an opportunity for all of us to help and support and expand the reach that will help all of us capitalize on the opportunities that are coming from this kind of mainstream exposure.

2 (22m 54s):
Okay. Okay. Maybe you can give me some examples of some, if you can, some a and it doesn’t have to just be people that you’ve worked with of some mainstream companies that have, that have jumped into the, into the pleasure product space and what their level of success was. Well,

3 (23m 14s):
I think it’s at the moment it’s difficult because we’re seeing a lot of companies launch. So I would have to do some digging on terms of how that is for them, because I think sometimes what happens is, is you see a lot of major exposure, but that doesn’t necessarily convert or translate into sales. So I’d be interested to see in about 12 months where these brands are.

2 (23m 38s):
Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Now with different clients within a small market, how are you going to ensure confidentiality?

3 (23m 48s):
Confidentiality has always been key to what we’ve all done, whether it’s individually or collectively, I think it’s really important and it’s important to our clients that we keep that confidentiality. So we just, you know, we do do we sign NDAs at the onset of discussions and by therefore we honor that and make sure that everything is kept. We do not share any information with the party businesses and all agreements will be contracted in us or UK law. Okay. So let’s say

2 (24m 23s):
Today, I came to you and I said, okay, Nina, I’ve got this idea for a product and I’m, I’ve never done this before. Okay. Take me through the steps of how the collective would help me start get going, and then take it to market. I

3 (24m 44s):
Think it would be a case of just discussing with you breeze in terms of, it will be a case of what the product is. Who are you looking to reach? What kind of branding you have. So I think a lot of it is difficult. Again, like I said earlier, I don’t want to give you a kind of blanket on answer. No, and I’m not, I’m not looking for a cookie cutter answer. Let’s let’s say, let’s say

2 (25m 6s):
I came up with a really cool new men sex toy. Okay. And it’s, it’s something that’s different from anything else out there. And I just want your guidance as to, okay, how should we move forward? Maybe you can tell me, well, what would the questions be? What would you ask me about?

3 (25m 27s):
I would love to look at one the products and see if there’s any ways that we can improve it in terms of technology based stuff that can improve, you know, create an even better version of the product would have look at the drawings that you have. And I’d also be interested in saying, well, what are your USP’s? Why is this product different to anything else you’ve got out there on the market? Who are you targeting? You know, and look at things with you in terms of, you know, what your ideas are around the brand and the product, and who do you want to target? And then go work through that in terms of, you know, the phase one of launching one product, are you looking to launch further products? You know, how far are you with your branding, your website, your B2B, and your B to C communications, are you selling to the end consumer or are you looking for distribution?

3 (26m 17s):
So it would be a lovely long conversation of understanding what your needs are as a client. And then I’ll be able to provide you with kind of Pacific ideas regarding your product and how we can take that to market.

2 (26m 31s):
Do you guys have like a questionnaire that is kind of good? Good. Okay. That’s great. All right. Now, why do you think the market needs a collective like this?

3 (26m 44s):
As I mentioned earlier, I think, you know, times are changing and I think our industry needs to adapt to thrive. You know, we’re collective of industry experts. Who’ve worked in this space for many, many years, so we can all, we all bring our strengths and we can offer a variety of different services, you know, from the people that have the experience and have the knowledge, you know, they’ve done, they’ve walked those steps themselves. So if one of these services that we offer can help a business, then it, that is brilliant. You know, that’s what we want to do. Obviously clients can pick and choose what they need help with. And we have an option for them. You know, there are lots of agencies out there, but I kind of feel like with the collective, we offer something different.

3 (27m 27s):
You know, we do have those resources. We do have manufacturing facilities. We do have patient technologies. You know, we have got the marketing and merchandising arm of the business as well. So it’s different to, again, it goes back to what I said earlier about rather than hiring six different agencies to do different things. You’ve got this with the collective, you’ve got this one stop shop as it were that caters, and that can cater across a range of services for the client.

2 (28m 0s):
What unique technologies and patents can you offer clients?

3 (28m 5s):
Okay. So we’ve got quite a few technology. We have time. So we’ve got things like I’m going to have to check my list here. So we’ve got some wing power who are our manufacturing arm. They’ve got a range of unique technologies and patrons, and they are, have a factory based in China. So they’ve got various technologies like body resonating technologies, touch sensors, data app services. I’m trying to think now what else I’ve got on my list, multiple bullet function. So we’ve got quite a few different technologies that we have patents too, that are unique to us.

3 (28m 51s):
And obviously brand brands or clients working with us would have access to those technologies.

2 (28m 57s):
Interactive type of products seemed to be the real future where a cam girl can, can get on cam. And she has a device and the man has a device or the man and the man or the woman and the woman, whatever it is, you know, and I know there’s been some of that, but it seems to be an area where there’s just so much potential. Talk a little bit about that market, where it’s at and where do you think it’s going? I

3 (29m 32s):
Think it’s an exciting one to watch because obviously I still believe it’s kind of at the early stages. So I think there’s further development there and further scope to kind of create better products that connect. And it’s very hot at the moment in terms of obviously people being away from their loved ones during the pandemic and connecting. So we have got quite a few things that we’re working on behind the scenes to kind of make, offer a better offering of those services. So I think we’ll see more and more of those type products where people can interact with AR or VR, or as you said over the internet through webcams or POL and they’re watching.

3 (30m 17s):
So I think we’ll see more and more technology going that way.

2 (30m 21s):
Do you think that’s the future of sex tech?

3 (30m 25s):
I think it’s one of the ways of going forward with sex tech. I don’t think it’s the only way, but I think that more and more people are open to going, you know, trying that technology. And I think there will be what’s. I think that I think there will be a big demand for it. Absolutely.

2 (30m 43s):
What are innovations are happening in sex tech? Because I’m more of an internet guy, I’ll be the first to admit it. I deal mainly with people with content sites and the times that I’ve been able to go to product shows and the like, it’s always been fascinating to see what’s new. We had seen, we had, you know, virtual AVN recently CES, which I think has some sex tech in it. Now, what have you seen that’s?

3 (31m 15s):
Well, I can tell you, we’ve got an exciting range of products in house that really excites me. And I think, but yeah, I think we’ve got a really exciting range of products in terms of like where technology is going and what we can do. And I think also people are becoming more concerned with, you know, the ethical side of products as well. So I think that’s going to be an interesting one to watch. And obviously the one we touched on earlier, the advance of kind of internet connectivity and yeah. The internet. So I think those are kind of the key ones I would kind of be looking at. I mean, obviously I’m going to be biased with your breeze and say, we’ve got a fantastic range of products.

3 (31m 59s):
I haven’t seen anything like those on the market. You need to come and talk to us. I think those would probably be the key points that I would kind of highlight in terms of where we’re going in terms of sex tag.

2 (32m 11s):
Okay. Any of those you can talk about? Oh, well

3 (32m 16s):
I think we’ve got a whole range of products on lights. So for example, we’ve got things that are, you know, voice controlled app controlled music, controlled, remote controlled, we’ve got things that heat up temperature control multimodal has various touch senses products that vibrate not just in this concentrated area, but wider. There’s a lot of technologies that we have. Yeah. I mean, we do have kind of, we’ve touched on them on our website C to C So there’s more information there if anybody wants to kind of go more details. But what I would say is, come and talk to us,

2 (32m 55s):
You know, one, one thing that I’ve been hearing about lately, which is big, obviously with any connected devices, security, how do you guys address that?

3 (33m 6s):
Something that we are kind of looking to improve to sort of, because obviously one of the things we do is we’re not looking to share data with the parties. So it’s kind of, I think it’s kind of making the customer more aware of and being more transparent and honest. So it’s kind of fundamentally the customer’s choice to switch on that day to accessibility or turn it off. But I think the key thing is as being transparent, so it’s not being done secretly, I think what’s gone wrong in the past has been the lack of transparency or people haven’t realized that that data is being shared. Yeah. But I was talking more

2 (33m 44s):
About security in terms of, I’ve actually heard of situations where hackers have been able to access a women’s pocket pals and you know, actually control them and, and make them go at amazing speeds and things like that. How are you addressing things like that? Well,

3 (34m 8s):
Data security is something we’re taking very importantly. So that is something we are working on. But I I’ll be honest with you, Bruce. I hadn’t heard that.

2 (34m 16s):
Oh yeah. Oh, it’s out there.

3 (34m 18s):
I haven’t heard that. I got to do some digging on that one

2 (34m 21s):
With the interactive products. There’ve been hackers who have taken over, over people’s devices. It’s, it’s pretty wild, but well, welcome to 2021, right?

3 (34m 32s):
Yeah, no tray. I mean, obviously we take anything like that seriously. So it’s kind of, you know, working to constantly improve and to make sure that kind of thing doesn’t happen. And obviously that the customer feels comfortable. Yes. When they’re buying those types of products that they, their data is safe and, you know, with the hackability that limits, those kind of problems.

2 (34m 58s):
Absolutely. Now how will you address each client’s potential needs and give them a unique service? It’s

3 (35m 6s):
Kind of, you know, as we discussed earlier, it’s kind of speaking to them and kind of working out what it is that the client wants. We ha we do have a well-structured, you know, fight tested five step collaboration process. So, you know, this normally starts, as I said earlier, with discovery and mapping, trying to understand the client’s business, what their vision is. And then that will kind of help us then define a scope of work and the deliverables, and it’s kind of working together. So it’s not kind of like here it is the end goodbye, you know, it’s kind of that constant collaboration with each other. So we kind of work with the clients is define the scope of work, the deliverables, and then discuss that with the client and then kind of create that final proposal or adaptable proposal.

3 (35m 55s):
Should I say to assure that everybody’s aligned and on the same page, it’s all about being a partner. Sorry. It is absolutely. So it’s, you know, again, being transparent and you know, the client knowing in advance, what they can expect and what the costs are involved. There’s no kind of hidden secrets. So it’s all about communicating at every stage of the process with clearly identified milestones. You know, our strength really is that herb is a collective of these industry experts. You know, it’s not just one person saying, okay, this is what we’re going to do. It’s all of us kind of thinking of how we can help the client and what else we can bring to that business.

2 (36m 40s):
Right. Fantastic. Well, Hey, Nina, I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do the scan really soon. My broker

1 (36m 49s):
Tip today is part three of how to buy a website. Last week, we talked about finding the right site to buy. Once you find it, what do you do once you’ve either reached the broker of the site or the seller review the information about the site, the broker should provide you with the following a profit and loss statement of at least three years. That’s up to date if it’s June and they give you financials only through the end of the previous year, you need to see what the site is doing now, not last year, if it’s a pay site, getting username and password for the site so that you can review the content, ask how often the site is updated, get some history on the site. How long has it been in business, the story behind the site and why the seller wants to sell, get an inventory of the content and how much of it is current technologies like 4k, find out if all of the content is exclusive to that site, ask the seller.

1 (37m 45s):
If the content has ever been on VOD or DVD, see if there are any clip stores, the content is on find out how much the content costs to produce and what the current cost to production is. Very importantly, see if this operation can run without the owner, do they do the shooting themselves or did they hire someone to do it? And if there’s an outside producer, will that person continue to provide content for the site, find out how many new joins and rebuilds there are a day, ask them what is the retention rate on the site and find out if they do advertising on the site and where they get their traffic ask for Google analytics access.

1 (38m 25s):
So you can see where the traffic comes from. This information will give you the opportunity to truly evaluate what it is you’re buying. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to Jack Armstrong from Magnum Rings.

0 (38m 43s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Nina Saini. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with adult star, content creator, podcast hostess and comedian Kate Kennedy.

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Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale that adult site broker, we have just listed five amazing adult domains per sale. Any of these domains can be used to build a very successful and brandable website to domains are and porn listed at $4.25 million.

0 (1m 48s): listed a $2.95 million and strip for only $695,000. For more information, contact Now time for this week’s interview.

1 (2m 6s):
My guest today on adult side, broker talk is Kate Kennedy hostess of the podcast cam girl Chronicles on I’m life. Kate, thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank

2 (2m 17s):
You so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

1 (2m 20s):
I’m excited to have you now. Kate is a comedian, a podcast host content creator and retired adult film star. And as I just mentioned, she hosts the podcast cam girl Chronicles presented by I’m lying, which is an inside look at the wild and wacky world of online cam modeling. Okay. Worked as a professional porn star, both in front of and behind the camera from 2017 to 2020. That was the last year. And she retired then from studio work to focus on comedy and creating her own content on only fans where she is in the top 1%. Wow.

1 (2m 59s):
Congratulations. Thank you.

2 (3m 1s):
It’s the only time we will probably ever be in the 1%,

1 (3m 6s):
Give yourself some credit now, as she lives in LA with her three legged dogs, squeegee

2 (3m 12s):
Hmm. May or may not interrupt us at some point. We’ll see. She’s a little sleepy. I gave her some toys, so we’ll see.

1 (3m 19s):
I’ve got four. So I’m more likely to get interrupted. You can connect with her at L I N K T R dot E forward slash the G Kennedy with two N’s cam girl Chronicles is an entertaining peek behind the scenes of the world of cam. This 10 episode series is fast paced and hilarious with great stories, fun features, and plenty of surprises. Plus play along with munch madness, their weekly Exactly how it’s spelled, where you decide the winner cam girl Chronicles is good, clean, dirty fund made fresh every Sunday.

1 (4m 3s):
So Kate, tell me besides what I just described, what’s your new podcast about?

2 (4m 11s):
Yeah, I mean, it’s pretty much what we described. I’m a lot more than that. It’s crazy. I interviewed cam girls from all over the world, which is so fascinating. I’m up at like 6:00 AM to talk to girls in Bucharest every day and like Columbia, all these different, crazy places. And it’s just so interesting to get to talk to sex workers from all over the world and find kind of like our own like commonalities between what sex work is like. And also just their unique perspectives. I really think that even as progressive as most sex workers are in like the U S and stuff, we still like kind of have a little bias about sex workers overseas.

2 (4m 54s):
And it’s just so interesting to really talk to these people that are from, you know, like places I’ve never heard of. I’ve never been to. And they’re just so funny and cool and fucking smart and interesting. And I want to travel all over the world and hanging out with them now. So it’s really fun. We do a bunch of different features. A lot of it’s crazy. I write these little like weird daily show style, sex news segments every week, which are so fun that we include in this the show. So it’s just been the best experience getting to create the show. And I’m really, really proud of it. What have some

1 (5m 27s):
Of your favorite guests been so far? If I could put you on the spot? Oh

2 (5m 32s):
Man. Okay. I have to shout out Mia. Her I’m live name is sweet. Kiss Brazil. She is a fucking rock star. Social media just like pushes the show. She’s wonderful. I mean, you can not listen to her and not be like this girl’s the coolest ever. So she’s been amazing. All of the girls who’ve gotten to talk to all of the people at that work at the studios because they work in, especially in Romania and studios. Yes. Like they go to these places that really, they look like a Vegas casino. Like, it looks like you’re at the aria or like the Bellagio. And they’re in these beautiful environments where they have like people handling the equipment to nail lady, his hair, ladies, makeup ladies.

2 (6m 14s):
They have a whole commissary. I’m like, I want to cam here, but they’ve all just been so fun. They’ve all brought like different things to the table. And it’s been really, really cool to get, to get to know them.

1 (6m 27s):
Yeah. We did a, we did a segment on, on studios with Aandra who, who runs one of the, one of the studios there. Now, what advice do you have for interviewing sex workers? Maybe you can tell me because I do that a lot.

2 (6m 44s):
Yeah. I’m actually working on a piece right now because I doing this project kind of inspired me to ask more questions because I’ve given of man, I love talking about myself. So I’ve probably given hundreds of interviews at this point, but like it started making me think about like, what questions do I get asked? What questions do I like or questions do I not? And so like, I really, I asked Twitter just like openly, like, what are your least favorite questions that you get asked in an interview? And how would you change them? Right. You know? Cause like a lot of times you get asked about like, what were you like in high school? Or how did you lose your virginity? And it’s like, okay, that’s kind of icky. Right? Like I was like under, usually that’s not cool to ask or like your family and stuff.

2 (7m 26s):
Like, you know, I like my, the whole inspiration for that was like, I don’t like being asked about my family. Cause that feels really personal and it’s known, you know, it’s not their thing. So I kind of like asked them and they, I got such good response as about like, oh, I would rather be asked about this or that. And so I think the way to do it and I will be publishing this piece really soon is just to, I mean, first of all, cause you asked when we were setting up this interview as well. Like what do you want to talk about? What questions you want? Like ask us because we know what we want to talk about. We know are comfortable talking about, and we’re pretty good at setting boundaries. Cause you have to be, you learned that really fast and in sex work.

2 (8m 7s):
So, you know, it’s just kind of stuff like that. And I’ve gotten such good responses. I’m really excited to get to share them with everybody. So

1 (8m 14s):
Give me a couple of examples and I am expecting you to send a, send a link to that article to me so I can read it. But what are some examples of questions people want to be asked? And then some, some examples of questions people don’t like to be asked,

2 (8m 30s):
Okay, I’m pulling this up right now. Like on my phone because it did not have this like du, du, du, du, du, du two jeopardy theme song in the back. All of my shit posts that I put on Twitter. Why do I do this to myself? I don’t know. I know because I have thoughts about that Meghan Markle interview and I felt the need to tweet about it. Like 10 times last night someone was like, are you okay? And I was like, absolutely not. Didn’t everybody

1 (9m 2s):
Have thoughts about Megan Markle on that interview, by the way, we’re we’re recording this. We’re recording this in March right after the interviews. So just in case people are going wait, that was two months ago.

2 (9m 14s):
Oh yes. Okay. So this is a really good one. So I pulled up this thread. Okay. A lot of times people will ask you, like, what are your horror stories? What’s your worst customer or your worst client or worst scene. And it’s like, stop asking me to tell on people who pay my bills and who’s gonna want to relive that exactly asked me who my best or my most memorable was. Right. Like ask me who my favorite was. Who’s the funniest. Let’s see. How did you lose your Virginia? That one cropped up a bunch of times. People really don’t like being asked that, oh, this was a big one. And this only happened to me a couple of times, but I, couple of people said that interviewers have literally asked them if they found them attractive and would they fuck them?

2 (9m 58s):
Which like, okay, no, like that’s so awkward. What’s your favorite position? Cause that’s just a boring one. Like there’s like one cute answer to that. And it’s CEO and it’s been done to death. Mine is the one where you just like slammed my face into the pillow and I can’t breathe. That’s my favorite one. Oh, who’s your favorite performer to work with? That’s a really loaded one. Right? Because like whoever else you’ve worked with, if they are getting

3 (10m 32s):
Is going to feel

2 (10m 33s):
Exactly. And also every pro porn performer is going to say man, Wolfer era because that’s always the answer. How did you start porn or why? Which I understand that a good one or a bad one. That’s a bad one. And I understand why people don’t like it because there’s, for me, especially like there are a thousand reasons, like there’s, it gets such a complicated, nuanced issue, right? Like I could talk about like unfair labor and hiring practices. I could talk about how all labor under capitalism is inherently exploitive. And if you’re working in a coal mine, you’re also selling your body. Right? Like I could also talk about like I liked sex.

2 (11m 14s):
And at the end of the day, I didn’t want to work a nine to five or I wanted, you know, the freedom. So there’s so many different answers to that. That it’s not, you know, let’s see. Who’s your favorite person to work with? How’d you lose your virginity. Those were big wins. I got a lot of responses on this.

1 (11m 31s):
So Kate, how did you lose your, no, I’m not going to ask you that. What were some of the highlights of your performing career in gain an adult video?

2 (11m 46s):
Oh man. I mean like all of it was really fun. I had a blast and we’re coming up on my we’re like four or five days from my retirement anniversary, which is insane. I can’t believe it’s been a year. I retired early because of COVID like, whenever people are like, why did you retire? Like, cause COVID like, I shot my last scene. And then we went into lockdown the next day and it will three weeks later I turned 26 and I was like, wait a second. Like we need to start thinking about something else because this isn’t gonna keep going. And I don’t want to get my tits done. I’m not a teenager anymore.

2 (12m 26s):
I am, I can no longer convincingly play one. So, you know, like, but all of them all, they’re so fun. I really got the opportunity to work for a lot of amazing companies, a lot of great directors with a lot of really cool people. And so, you know, like I would say highlights where I loved working for I worked for them many, many times. I’ve had several hoodies from them. They’re great. Love them. And just, I mean, everyone, I really didn’t have like maybe one or two, not great experiences, but I really never had a bad one. I love graffiti.

1 (13m 4s):
I won’t ask you what your worst experiences were. Cause that was on the list. Okay. So what are some of the craziest stories you’ve heard in these interviews? You’ve done?

2 (13m 17s):
Oh my God. There’s been so many and they’re so fun and I’m so glad the girls are like, feel safe. Sharing them with us. My favorite ones so far has been a guy that liked to get a dress up in laundry with a pony butt plug and dance around stripping to the bare necessities from the jungle book. I want that guy in my cam room. That would be so much fun.

1 (13m 45s):
Yeah. He sounds like a, like a real card. What are some like what are some other stories?

2 (13m 51s):
Oh man. Let’s see. There’s a guy that likes to put frozen bananas in his butt hole. That was a funny one. I heard one today. That absolutely shocked me to my core this year. Wait a minute,

1 (14m 4s):
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Something shocked you. And you worked in adult for, you worked in an adult for four years and, and you cam okay, go ahead.

2 (14m 14s):
This girl today, this morning, and this is like eight o’clock in the morning. Mind you, and I’m not a morning person. So like hearing these stories, this early is crazy, but she, do you remember the mentors and diet Coke challenge? Okay. This guy did the Mentos and diet Coke challenge and put the bottle in his butthole and my face. I mean, you can die do it like that can kill you. Like that was, I literally was like, is he okay? Like I need to talk to him now.

1 (14m 45s):
I guess nothing shocks me. I was, I was, I was trying to picture it going. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Not something I do

2 (14m 54s):
Me neither. Not something anyone should do. I want to make that really clear. I did that in this podcast was like, seriously, the velocity of that liquid can rupture your colon and kill you. Please don’t do that. Well, I don’t

1 (15m 5s):
Like things in my butthole, but then again, I’m, you know, I like girls, what can I say? So what have you learned about camming around the world? I

2 (15m 16s):
Think the biggest thing has just been how, cause I don’t like to have like an American centric worldview. I really like to like break myself out of that. But I guess just how progressive attitudes towards sex work in other parts of the world are that we don’t really understand here in the us. Like we, when I talked to these girls that are working at these studios and like Romania and Columbia, like we can’t even have studios like that here it’s considered a brothel. Like it would be illegal to have something like that. And they there’s some studios in the states. There’s a couple, but it’s really, really hard to legally be able to do that. And I know people that own a couple. Yeah. And it’s like, even in like Nevada, if you want to do something like that, you technically need like a brothel license.

2 (16m 2s):
That’s interesting because

1 (16m 4s):
Cause I used to work with a cam company that had a studio in Nevada. I never, I never asked them if they had a brothel license.

2 (16m 12s):
Yeah. There’s a bunch of like legal issues and talking to like both the owners of the cam companies and then other people that are also just like in Theodore industry about the logistics of doing that. There’s so much more red tape here. And also like the way that their, the way their peers understand, like especially online sex work is so different in other parts of the world, like right now, Columbia is the largest growing cam market in the world and they have such a progress. And it’s so fascinating because right, this is this like south American country that’s heavily Catholic. And yet they have this incredibly progressive view of sex work.

2 (16m 53s):
Like I have never met a Colombian Kim model whose family did not a thousand percent support them. Sure. Is she, is

1 (17m 0s):
She a thousand percent supports that?

2 (17m 3s):
Exactly. Which is, I mean like totally fine. We, you know, we talk about sex work. It’s really one of the only industries where you can make a very good living without those high barriers of entry, like a university degree or networking or inherited wealth. And I mean, I really think that the U S is falling behind on this run.

1 (17m 24s):
I mean, here in Thailand, you can’t imagine how many millions of people are supported by a prostitution here. I mean, they send their money home to their families. Absolutely. And it’s accepted, it’s still not legal, it’s accepted. And as far as the U S goes to U S is so behind so many areas, I can’t even begin to tell you when the more I’m in different parts of the world, the more I realize how far behind we’ve fallen in, in all these areas. And one area really is the whole idea of morals, you know?

1 (18m 9s):
Yeah. In Columbia, they’re Catholic, but they’re not evangelicals.

2 (18m 13s):
It’s not, it doesn’t have that puritanical bent to it. But so much of us culture has that I think really sets us back socially and economically so far, especially in terms of like women’s rights and liberation. I mean it’s international women’s day as we’re recording this. Yes.

1 (18m 33s):
Happy international women’s day.

2 (18m 35s):
Thank you. Nobody has grabbed my pussy all day, so I don’t even know what we’re supposed to be celebrating, but that’s fine.

1 (18m 46s):
So, so what, what’s it like working with

2 (18m 50s):
Lot? It’s been wonderful. They have been so supportive of this project. They’ve really let us do so much of what we wanted to design the show. Like it, I mean, it’s been such a cool experience to really get to go in and say like, we’re going to do the show about sex work by sex workers, by people that understand this industry and like to get to write on this show. I mean, I put in so many hours of work on the show every week, not just interviewing, but the writing and the jokes and all of the stuff that goes into it. And like just to see them be so happy with it and also to let us design it in that way has just been incredible.

2 (19m 31s):
They’ve been so great. And they’ve supported the show so wonderfully with getting us the girls to interview and listening to our ideas. We just had a meeting today about the last episode of the first season that went really well. So it was very exciting and yeah, they’ve been wonderful,

1 (19m 48s):
Great company. I’ve got lots and lots of friends over there in my Israeli homeys. So what goes into writing and creating a show like yours

2 (19m 60s):
So much? Like it’s so much of me just sitting at my computer, like pulling up the online thesaurus, like looking up like different terms for sex. Like I, I have so many bookmarks on my computer now that I’m sure like the FBI is going to be pounding down my door any day. Now it’s a lot. I mean, between me and like romaine who’s the producer and the editors and everyone that lays down the different pieces of the audio to like the girls that are willing to speak to us and take hours out of their day to do so, which we’re incredibly grateful for. Like it’s such a team effort and it really is such a labor of love because we love doing it.

2 (20m 43s):
I mean, I sit and write these like dumb little daily show, style news for hours. And I know my life would be so much easier if I didn’t insist on writing all of them as like tongue twisters, but I, Kate Kennedy adores alliteration. That’s my joke. But yeah, it’s, it’s been so much fun. I get to do so much research and put just, it’s just, it’s so cool. It’s just so much fun. I it’s a lot of work, but I absolutely adore every single second of it. And I hate getting up in the morning, hate it. And I am willing to wake up at 6:00 AM to do this. Like there’s very little else. I’m willing to wake up at 6:00 AM for almost nothing.

2 (21m 25s):
I literally cannot name anything else. Wait

1 (21m 28s):
Until you get older, like me, it’ll be a,

2 (21m 31s):
My mom keeps saying that and it has not happened yet. Well,

1 (21m 36s):

2 (21m 38s):
Yeah. I’m almost 27. My birthday is coming up.

1 (21m 40s):
Oh God. Yeah. Well, you’ve got a long way to go. Girl just started happening to me and I turned 63 in October. So what’s been the biggest challenge creating the podcast.

2 (21m 55s):
The time difference sucks. I live, I live in LA, there are producers in New York, so, and then Bucharest is 10 hours ahead of LA. So I’m getting up at 6:00 AM, super rough, you know, good personal challenge for me. I think just kind of, to me the biggest thing, anytime I’m doing anything when in sex work or involving sex workers, but also has like a mainstream media bent to it, is that just, I want to portray these people honestly, and in the way that they want to be, because I think that that’s so rare.

2 (22m 36s):
I think it’s so uncommon in that they get to tell their own stories. And so that’s just been my kind of like guiding light Maxim in doing this is that I really care about the way that these girls are portrayed and I really care that they’re portrayed honestly, and in the way that they want to be. So I put a lot of pressure on myself to do so, because I know how I feel when I, you know, see media that doesn’t portray sex work in a real or honest light. So, you know, but I think we’ve been able to do that. So it’s paid off. Absolutely.

1 (23m 15s):
Well, and then you’re the perfect host for this show because you do it yourself.

2 (23m 21s):
Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, I think that that experience and like, I’ve been really honest the whole time. Like I have done cam, I was not very good at camming. Like I don’t consider that a strength of mine. These girls are much better at it than I probably will ever be, but I do understand what they go through on a regular basis. I know what it’s like to be doing a show for hours on end and be bored and not have anyone in your room and feel bad and you know, and try to have to stick it out. I mean, these girls have an incredible work ethic and I really want to highlight that. Yeah. And I think

1 (23m 59s):
That, I think the ones overseas, if you want to talk about work ethic, I think they, they always, people overseas always have a better work ethic than Americans.

2 (24m 9s):
They really do. There’s a reason we’re falling behind in manufacturing, our own porn, our own cars, our own anything. There is a very good reason.

3 (24m 18s):
Indeed. What’s

1 (24m 19s):
The, what’s been the biggest surprise so far

2 (24m 23s):
I think. And this is going to sound terrible because I’m going to come from my own biased standpoint. Right. I love breaking down my biases. Like I think that’s so important. I think I know what’s coming, but go ahead. Yeah. It’s just how fucking cool these girls are. They’re so funny. They’re so smart. They work so hard. They’re sweet. They’re cool. I want to hang out with them. Like I kind of do this joke where, you know, you know, like the scariest stripper in a strip club. Cause I used to be a stripper as well. The scariest stripper in the strip club is always like six feet tall and blonde and her name is always Svetlana and she’s fucking terrifying, right? Like Russian strippers are the scariest fucking people on the planet.

2 (25m 4s):
Like do not fuck with that.

4 (25m 6s):
I will break you literally,

2 (25m 9s):
She will either break you or she will pee in your bag, like, which is a thing that happens in strip clubs. But like I it’s been so rewarding to be able to break down that bias for myself. And hopefully for people that listen to this show of that, like I think we as sex workers, if we want to really fight for things like decriminalization and equal rights and you know, this and to all of the nastiness that goes on around the way that like the mainstream world talks about sex workers, like we have to be United, we have to work together. And so getting to know these girls has just been an incredible experience. Like again, I, I just want to go hang out with them like, wow.

1 (25m 50s):
When the live shows start again, you certainly will have that opportunity at, at some of the events. There’s a couple in a couple in Romania and there’s one in Columbia and yeah, you should definitely get the, you should definitely get the guys that I’m live to send you there. We are hoping are you listening center to Romania, to Columbia

3 (26m 15s):
And yeah, we’ve brought

2 (26m 18s):
It up with them that we really want to go. My mother is terrified. She’s like a thousand percent sure I’m going to get taken, which is so funny because like I’ve tried to get sex trafficked before and they’ve returned to me every single time. No one is interested. I know, I know it’s, it’s a hard knock life for a logical ho, but yeah, we’re really hoping that we can go do this live just because I want the world to see this too. Like, I really want people to get, to see what I’ve gotten to see, not just in the podcast, but like on video, like live, like, I really want people to get to understand, like these are women that are smart and capable and hardworking and are passionate about what they do.

2 (27m 1s):
Well, you can do some

1 (27m 2s):
Remote stuff. You know, I planned to do it when the show started up again, I planned to do some remote interviews. It’ll give me a, some people that I wouldn’t normally be able to get. Oh. And by the way, Russian hookers peeing on your back that’s that’s, that’s pricing

2 (27m 18s):
Your bag always in your bag. Stripper bag, that’s happened to a couple of my stripper friends that they pissed off their own girl at the club and she peed in their bag. It never happened to me. I got a glass of water dumped in mine. Once I was

1 (27m 32s):
Going to say peeing on a peeing on a guy’s back. That costs man. That’s expensive. So what advice do you have for aspiring cam models and other adult content creators?

2 (27m 45s):
It’s a, it’s a, it’s so funny because I know I wrote this question, but I literally just was talking to my best friend from high school earlier today. And he wants to get into online content, not like porn, but he wants to start posting like snowboarding videos and stuff. And he called and was like, how do you he’s like, I know this is your job. Like how do you do this? And so I walked him all through it, but my biggest tips are like, you don’t need to spend a thousand, like millions of dollars. Don’t do that. Like, you don’t need crazy equipment. You need like your phone, a couple of lights. So don’t buy into that because I totally did. When I was starting go at your own pace, figure out what you like, figure out who you are.

2 (28m 28s):
And like research things like marketing and branding, keep your content consistent and, and make it fun. Don’t put a ton of pressure on yourself. It’s a grind. It takes years. I’ve been on only fans since 2017. And I did not make enough money per month to pay my rent until November, 2019 was the first time that I made enough money. I made like $1,500 that month. And that was the first time I’d made that much. And I make much more now obviously through the pandemic and through, you know, shifting my focus to that. But it’s a grind. It takes a really long time. Like you are not a failure if you’re not in the 1% overnight, like you just have to put in the work, figure out who you are, who you should collaborate with, where you’re going to fit and just work at it.

2 (29m 19s):
It’s a job like anything else. It’s the hours you put into it, the love you put into it and the passion you put into it.

3 (29m 26s):
Okay. Now I want to ask

1 (29m 29s):
You about your comedy career with the podcast and your only fans work. Do you really have much time for it and how active

2 (29m 36s):
Are you? I have no time for anything, but I make time for everything. So prior to the pandemic, I was doing probably five or six mikes a week and performing at the comedy store here in Los Angeles, I’ve gotten some really incredible opportunities to open for really big comics that have just been amazing and wonderful. So I’ve, I’ve gotten really lucky in terms of that, especially within like the LA podcast scene to get to do kind of those rounds. It’s been good for my online content and also my comedy career, but it’s what I’m really passionate about. I had just started to go on the road at the beginning of 2020 before all this happened.

2 (30m 18s):
I’m really hopeful that I will get to do that again. Soon. I have a show coming up, my first road show in over a year and a couple of months I’m going up to, or a couple of months, couple of weeks, I’m going up to big bear to go do a show with some of my friends, which will be very fun. And I just, I obviously adore standup. I love everything about it. And it’s yeah, it’s hard. I mean, I think, I think it’s harder than porn and I think porn is pretty hard, but like it’s rough. I mean, it can be humiliating and Digger. Like I joke that I used to do hardcore porn, but it just wasn’t degrading enough for me. So I got into stand up comedy and stuff.

1 (30m 56s):
So you weren’t, it wasn’t degrading. Nipsey went to work for kink.

2 (31m 2s):
I asked them to hit me harder. You’re not allowed to eat shit on the internet. You can in comedy.

1 (31m 8s):
Yeah. Well, if kink and if kinks not rough enough, then you’re in trouble. Okay. I’m going to ask you a question today. You’re probably would tell me that you never ask a comedian, but I’m going to ask it anyway. We ready.

3 (31m 24s):
Tell me a joke.

2 (31m 27s):
Do you think that Salman Rushdie was mad that he had to write the entire satanic verses in order to get a fatwa declared against him? When all Mia Khalifa had to do is suck Dick in a hijab because I would be mad probably that was like one of the first jokes I ever wrote was in my very first standup set that I ever did. And I was so proud of that joke. And like I got off stage and someone was like, that jokes really elitist. And I was like, you know, I can’t fucking help if you don’t know who Salomon, right? Like, I can’t help the fight. You didn’t go to college if you don’t know who she is. And if you don’t know who me and Khalifa is, or if your boyfriend who you’re with at the show, doesn’t know who me and Khalifa is, he’s lying.

2 (32m 12s):
So there you go. It tells you everything you need to know about the audience right away. It’s a great opener. And you,

1 (32m 16s):
Do you talk about porn in your, in your comedy?

2 (32m 20s):
Absolutely. Yeah. It’s I mean, I, I really,

1 (32m 24s):
I would get you to get the eye, the guy’s attention right away.

2 (32m 27s):
It’s one of those things, like I really try to, from the get-go, like, I didn’t want to be pigeon-holed as like a comic that can only talk about one thing. So I, when I first started my entire set about porn, because porn is so funny and like you said, people, their ears perk up. Like people are fascinated by it. They want to hear about it. So when I first started, I did so many jokes like that. And then, you know, I really got very serious about it and was like, okay, this is a part of my identity. It’s a part of my life. I don’t want to hide it. I’m never going to be like, don’t talk about it or don’t mention that I did it. But at the same time, I want to be able to do social commentary and talk about my dating life or by parents or whatever on stage as well.

2 (33m 10s):
And so, you know, I try to like mix it up with other stuff, but I definitely come back to it a lot. And if I feel like I’m losing the audience, it’s a really easy thing to throw out there and be like, by the way, you can see my Bumble on the internet. So if you don’t think this is funny, at least you can. I see,

1 (33m 29s):
Okay. You go to, you mentioned dating. How does I don’t this might be on also on the list of questions not to ask, but how does performing and I do mean adult performing affect your dating

2 (33m 41s):
Life. I do want to be clear. I’m not a PR, like I did ask that question for other people. Cause I care really deeply about the way the sex workers are portrayed, but like, they’re like no questions. I won’t answer. Like literally, like I just, I’m a very open book about almost everything. Like I am happy to talk about things and you know, but I, I know that not everyone else’s. So it was more focused on that. I will say, I think dating and I, I do a joke about this as well that like dating in standup, I think is real, is harder than dating in porn, mean like dating and porn is just like agreeing to like work a little bit of extra overtime for no pay.

2 (34m 21s):

3 (34m 23s):
Like sucks. But if you, I love that. Thank you.

2 (34m 30s):
Whereas like dating in comedy is like, I, I have a joke about that too, where I’m like, I went through a phase where I would only date mediocre comics because they know how to choke. And I wrote that joke on a really specific comic who really did not like it, but that joke was about him. And, but yeah, I mean, it’s hard. I didn’t date. I’ve been single since I was 22, 23, since I got into porn, basically I never dated anyone while I was in porn. It just wasn’t like, it wasn’t my focus. And I did end up like in a, kind of a long distance relationship. The last year I was in porn and it was like, I had just like met someone that really kind of changed my life and changed my perspective that I really fell for.

2 (35m 19s):
And it was one of the things that started me, like the gears in my head turning of, okay, we’re going to do something else at some point. And I really admire, I know a lot of sex workers that are in very happy relationships or happy, monogamous relationships. I’m not capable of that. Turns out. I, I couldn’t do it. Like it became, I mean, I would cry when I was going to work and not because they didn’t want to go to work or cause they didn’t like my job, but just, I really didn’t want to fuck anyone else. And that was so hard for me. But it also, I think was so good for

3 (35m 53s):
Me. That’s a w yeah, that, that’s,

1 (35m 56s):
That’s a problem if you’re, if you’re doing adult because

3 (35m 59s):
You know, then yeah, I understand.

2 (36m 2s):
It just started the gears turning of being like, okay, like I am going to do something else. And, and that was right when I started getting into standup as well. And so initially I had planned like 20, 20, I was gonna phase out like through the year and then COVID happens. So it’s about everything up, but I am dating someone right now, which is really cool. Yeah. Another former sex worker and she’s amazing and yeah, and we’re not monogamous, but very honest with each other. And I just feel really loved and really seen. And, and that’s really wonderful. So I feel really like,

1 (36m 36s):
That’s beautiful now, what do you think the future of porn and online sex work looks like?

2 (36m 44s):
Oh my God, I wrote this question. This is such a hard question to answer. I have like such empathy for all of the people I interview now turns out, I ask really hard questions. There you go. I really think that this past year, and I know there’s been a lot of discussion, the scores around only fans and porn and porn hub and everything that’s been going on this year. I love the idea of having like more like bespoke porn like that you really buy directly from the creator, whether it’s on only fans or any other platform where you support them individually for my brand, that works really well.

2 (37m 27s):
So I’m really lucky for that. And so I like that a lot. I think we’re really having more serious conversations about labor and especially women’s labor through the pandemic. Like if we look at like a job like net job losses in the United States in December, a hundred percent of job losses were women. And to summarize that crazy, it was in the New York times, obviously fucking crazy. So we’re really starting to see more people that maybe in the past would have been like, I would never do porn. I would never do sex work that are now on only fans. And I, you know, obviously you want women to have as many options as they want for what kind of labor that they do.

2 (38m 8s):
But I think a lot of people are starting to realize that like, Hey, it really is the girl next door it’s okay for women to be publicly sexual in a consensual environment with people that are routine like it’s, that is okay. And I kind of had joked even when I first got into porn, cause like I went to college, I have like two degrees. And when I first got into porn, a lot of people were like, you’re throwing your life away. What the fuck is wrong with you? And I was like, give it 10 years. Every single person’s are going to be on the internet. And I’m like, not even four years later, I feel so vindicated in that prediction is that we’re I really think that we’re starting to have a, a greater cultural discourse around what porn is, what it can be and who it can benefit because you know, like I said earlier, it’s one of the only professions where it has a very low barrier of entry.

2 (39m 4s):
Like you need an iPhone and an internet connection, right? Like you don’t need to have all of these things that we associate with being really successful in like generational wealth. You don’t have to have those kinds of connections. So you can really make a very comfortable living from your phone. That’s huge for women. Right. So I, I love that. I think that’s fantastic. I w whenever I talk to people that want to get into sex work, or that are curious about it, I just say, you know, it’s, it is a job. Like anything else, it’s a unique job. It’s a very difficult job, but it can be a really rewarding job. And I also think that too, like just the ways we talk about labor, right?

2 (39m 46s):
Like I, a big part of why I got into porn was cause I didn’t want to work 80 hours a week. Right. I didn’t my friends, the guy I got out of school with, you know, that went and got these incredible internships in San Francisco, New York and blah, blah, blah. I mean, they were working 80 hours a week for $20 an hour and just getting absolutely bombed every weekend because they were miserable. And I didn’t want that to be my life. And I understand, you know, especially in your twenties, when you’re young and you can travel and you have the energy to go do things, you don’t have kids, you don’t have those responsibilities. Like I wanted to enjoy my twenties. And I really think I did a pretty good job at that.

2 (40m 25s):

1 (40m 27s):
Obviously. And they’re, they’re far from over, how did you transition from the adult industry into mainstream comedy and podcasting

2 (40m 38s):
By being really stubborn and not shutting up until people in the citizens? No, I just, I kind of took what I had and I, I just took stock of what I was doing. And when I started doing standup and everything and being like, okay, you know, like I want to do this. And I, I never went into it with the attitude of like, and I kind of learned this from porn, especially too. Like I never went into it. The attitude of like, I don’t deserve to be here. Like, I, I really, I got a lot of, a lot of self-confidence from doing porn. I think it’s hard not to. Right. You’re in this environment all the time where people are telling you, you’re so hot and you’re so beautiful. You’re so great. And it’s hard not to like fluff your own ego a little bit, but for me, I really needed that because I did not have high self-esteem when I was younger.

2 (41m 26s):
I did not feel that way about myself. And so for me, like getting into porn really was like, okay, if I could do this year. And I mean, I moved to LA, like I look back on it. I’m like, oh my God. If I knew myself three years ago, moving to LA, I would’ve been like, don’t do. And I’m so glad it worked out as well as it did. I, I would’ve worn myself off of it. I’m glad I wasn’t there to do that to myself. But like, well, my favorite, not my favorite place, but that’s okay. I love it. I get why people don’t love it. I really do think people are going to talk about LA in like 20, 20 or 2021, the way that they talked about like New York in the seventies where it’s like, it was disgusting and there’s hobo piss everywhere, but it was gritty and it was raw and it was real.

2 (42m 10s):
And you couldn’t have had it back then. You know what I mean? But no, I mean, I, I just went into it and I like said what I thought and I worked hard and I made those connections. I mean, I think another big thing about porn that people don’t really talk about. Like, you can build up a huge online following and have all of these followers on Twitter, Instagram, PornHub, whatever. You really build a name for yourself. And I I’m good friends with Carter Cruz. Who’s another performer. Who’s also a DJ. And she, she and I talk about this all the time where she’s like, when I built the brand of Carter Cruz, I built it to be I’m this fucking dope ass chick who can do anything.

2 (42m 55s):
Not I’m part of her is a porn star. And I I’m, mine was the same mentality where I was like, I’m Kate Kennedy, I’m fucking rad. Like I can do whatever. And I think having that bigger mindset where you can do porn, you can do sex work, you can do adult work. And you also want to leave room to do other things in your life that you want to do. Cause the most successful people that I see in the porn industry are not people that just do porn, right. There are people that have other side ventures, whether it’s backend production within the industry, whether it’s, I know people that own clothing, boutiques and soap companies and all this random other stuff and do comedy in seven.

2 (43m 38s):
And those are the people that I see later being very happy, very successful, very fulfilled.

1 (43m 46s):
That brings up. That brings up a question you live in LA. So, you know, obviously the question would come up. Do you have interest in mainstream film work?

2 (43m 58s):
Hey, just joined central casting and yeah. Cause one of my friends hit me up and was like, he wrote three legged dog. Right. And I was like, yeah, he’s like, there’s a casting call for a three legged dog and an owner. So I like submitted squeegee and I, and I don’t think we got a call back. I know it’s okay. I don’t really, I, I really want to be a writer. I write a lot and I would really love to be a writer on a show like a sit-com, especially like adult animation. I always kind of joke like, like something like big would be like right up my alley. I love it all animation. I love south park and family guy and everything been a huge fan of that since I was very young.

2 (44m 40s):
So, and that’s a great thing about comedy to an LA and especially being around the comedy store. Is that like the it’s very generational. Right? So like my friends right now, my good close friends in LA are like the next people that are going to come up that are starting to open for like bill Burr and are going on the road with, you know, whoever. And, and that’s really cool. And so, you know, that like people that hire for those shows, they hire their friends. So it’s like, okay, like I want to be in a writer’s room for something like that. And I’m actually in a writer’s room right now. So it’s exciting. Yeah. So I mean, that’s what I want to do. I don’t have a lot of ambitions to be in front of the camera as like an actress.

2 (45m 22s):
I kind of joked. I always thought it was pretty bad acting even in porn, which is saying something because although I will say there are incredible actors and actresses isn’t born. I was not one of them. I’m definitely more of a writer. I love standup. Cause I just, I kind of joked to him. Like I can really only play myself or like version someplace else. I love it. I love

1 (45m 43s):
It. Well, you know, Hey, you may be right now surrounded by the next people that will be on SNL and shows like

2 (45m 50s):
That. Actually one of my friends just got SNL last summer. It was really exciting. Yeah. Punky Johnson. She got SNL and it was really cool. I mean, like I only met her a couple of times at the store, but she, yeah, we all had, we took a big picture with her and had her name up on the marquee and it was really exciting. It’s just so cool to get to like be around people like that. They get to go on to do these incredible things. Like you’re so excited for them. Yeah. Huge. So

1 (46m 19s):
What do people get wrong about your job that you wish they understood?

2 (46m 24s):
Okay. I asked this question to all of the girls in the show too, cause I think that’s so good. I think the biggest thing people get wrong is how much, not just creativity goes into it, but how much a drive has to go into it. Like it’s fucking hard to film content when you’re exhausted and you don’t feel sexy and you’ve gained a couple of pounds and you’re pale and you have the hair of like the gay little brother of one of the Basie rollers, which I do right now. I’ve been cutting my own hair for a year. I have not gotten more sober while I do it or better at doing it.

2 (47m 6s):
Yeah. It’s, it’s not great. It’s hard. It’s really hard to like consistently be coming up with like new ideas for content. How you’re really a one man operation. Right? Like my whole only fence of like, I have to create right. Shoot, edit, like style it and then like put it up by like, and sell it. Like that’s an enormous amount of work. Like I, when I was in college, I worked at an advertising firm for a couple of years and I ended up like running their internship program and I worked really hard, but like we had a staff of 30 people that were creating less content on a weekly basis than I create alone

3 (47m 51s):
Now. Yeah. No wonder you do so well there.

2 (47m 55s):
So like it’s I know you didn’t hire me after college. My life would have gone in a very different direction. I’m glad now in retrospect I’m glad, but yeah. I mean it’s, it really is hours. I have like five different calendars. Right? I have to write everything down. I am constantly jotting down ideas like, and also just understanding that like, cause you can get really caught up in it too. Right? It’s a job that you can do any time. You’re your own boss. And I joke that I’m an absolutely fucking terrible boss. I’m the worst boss I’ve ever had. And I used to work for this little Chinese woman that hit me. If she saw me using my phone, I worked in bridal for a while.

2 (48m 35s):
I was in college and if she saw me like texting, she would just smack me and I’d be like, you can’t do that to your employer. Like I don’t mean to be insensitive, but this is America. Like you cannot do that. That’s really not cool. And then I

4 (48m 51s):
Quit getting the visual ratios, like four

2 (48m 54s):
11. She was like teeny tiny. And then I finally quit. And then like two weeks later, I’m not giving, I’m not shitting you two weeks later, her son drowned. I know. And he was like 15, it was terrible. It’s a terrible, it’s really sad. But like how awkward of a sympathy card is that right? Yeah. Like I’m so sorry that you’re. And also he was definitely her favorite child. Like she was very clear, but she liked him better than the other. I need a Chinese son, man. That’s that’s traffic. It was very tragic. But it is like, you have to, like, I really build in days for myself where I’m like, you have to take the day off.

2 (49m 35s):
You have to relax. You have to not work. Like you have to close the door on the office, whatever, because it, you put an enormous amount of pressure on yourself and you’re always too late, constantly inundated with all of this. All of the people that you follow on Twitter on Instagram, whatever, like your coworkers, colleagues that are, is doing it. And you can get in a mindset of feeling like I’m not doing enough. I’m not good enough, et cetera, et cetera. And it’s so hard to break out of that. And so I really just try to be so kind to myself all the time, because it’s a hard job

3 (50m 12s):
You got to.

1 (50m 14s):
Well, okay. This has been absolutely delightful. I’d like to thank you for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I really hope we’ll get a chance to do this again really soon.

2 (50m 24s):
Me too. Thank you so much for having me and anyone listening. Please go listen to our podcast. It’s cam girl Chronicles presented by I’m live and you can find

0 (50m 36s):
What broker tip today is part two of how to buy a site. Last week, we discussed first deciding the type of site you want to buy and then establishing what your budget is next. It’s time to look for your new website. So where do you look? Well, adult site broker is a great place to start. We always have a nice variety of website and non website properties for sale. But if there’s a particular type of site you want, we can also act as your buyer’s broker to help you find just the right site. Other places to look are boards like X and <inaudible> dot com. But to be completely honest, unless what you’re looking for is a really low end property.

0 (51m 16s):
You’re probably not going to find what you’re looking for there. Of course you could contact site owners yourself, but take it from someone who does it for a living. It’s a major hassle, and it can be really hard to even find out who owns the site. Almost all adults sites use who is privacy from their domain registrar. So when you send them an email, it will be to an anonymous address. And in most cases, the emails aren’t even returned. We have a huge database of sellers and generally know who owns what. And if it’s a website of note, if we don’t know who owns it, we can always find out, we’ll talk about this subject more next week.

0 (51m 55s):
And next week we’ll be talking to sex tech expert, Nina Siani. And that’s it on this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again like to thank our guest Kate Kennedy. Talk to you next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
his is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with porn starlet Vicky Vette.

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0 (1m 33s):
The site offers top discounts to the hottest networks in adult entertainment. In addition, they offer full length scenes to these sites. So surfers can sample the content. Also the seams serve to keep the visitors engaged longer on the site. Then the traditional review site, they offer outstanding prices to adult networks. On behalf of their visitors. The surfers on the site will be hard-pressed to find a better price to their favorite network, including evil angel, adult time, Brazzers bang bros, and just about every other top adult networking site. They’ve been growing their email list since 2020, and the list has grown to over 2000.

0 (2m 14s):
In the past six months, their unsubscribe rate is in the low single digits. Their free porn section is growing and they currently have roughly 150 scenes. Their traffic has been all organic until recently, but now they’ve started paying for traffic as well. This is boosted their ability to grow their email list and get returned visitors. You can buy this outstanding pay site review platform for only $956,000. Now time for this week’s interview

1 (2m 46s):
My guest today, Dan, and I’ll say, broker talk has adult star and entrepreneur Vicky vet Vicki. Thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk. Thanks for having me. Hey, it’s always good to have you Vicky. Okay. Now Vicki was born in Norway and moved to Canada as a child. She started her journey and adult in 2003, after winning hustlers beaver hunt at the ripe young age of 38. And she still doesn’t look a day over 30. By the time the winning layout was shot. She was already 39, the oldest beaver to ever win it. Now, prior to that, she was in the corporate world. Everything from bookkeeper to general manager and controller, as she describes it, I never really fit into normal jobs because I led a double life prudish, small town conservative by day, raging swinger.

1 (3m 37s):
At night, when she went beaver hunt, she was offered film roles and the rest, as they say is history. She went on to star and over 130 movies and was lucky enough to be nominated for best new starlet and to win an AVN award for best teas right off the bat right away. She started her own official site after she learned some basic web mastering skills. In 2006, she decided to focus on online adult entertainment. She took a gamble and stop making DVDs so she could spend more time with the site. And then obviously turned out to be a great move. Considering where DVDs are today for a few months, fans thought she had retired until they discovered she was producing her own content for the internet and releasing it herself.

1 (4m 20s):
The online world accepted her brand of goofy reality porn and the website flourished. Her fans started to call themselves the vet nation army or VNA. She started to ask some of the hottest girls in the biz to join her in the VNA. Thus, the VNA girls were born VNA started in 20 2009 when she added sunny lane, Shondra, Fey, and Sarah J how that rhymes after adding girls like Nikki Benz, Puma, suede, and Julie, and things really took off. When it got to 12 sites, she nicknamed the girls, the dirty dozen. Now there are 30 to 40 sites and 60 live girls.

1 (5m 1s):
It’s better than dead ones. Vicky has won a number of awards, including the hall of fame by AVN and web store of the year. Twice by ex-business side is one best porn star website, and best solo site, twice, or list of awards this as long as encyclopedia Britannica. So we can’t list them all. Let’s just say Vicky’s been nominated for and won eight ton of awards. So Vicky, that’s all we have time for. Sorry. You don’t, you don’t do many interviews at all. Why did you say yes to me?

2 (5m 35s):
Because we had such a nice lunch together back in Dresden, Germany when we were at X is in Berlin and you seem like a nice person. So I’m actually, I’m actually really shy. Believe it or not. I don’t really like giving interviews.

1 (5m 54s):
It’s a hard one. That’s a hard one to believe. Yeah. We sat right across from each other and it was delightful. Yes. Was you and I talked the whole time.

2 (6m 3s):
Yeah. And you’re a talker

1 (6m 6s):
Who me? Nah, come on. Nah, never, never, never. Okay. So how often do you cam lately?

2 (6m 15s):
More than I like to, I find Cammy is really hard. You have to be, you know, someone’s mistress, lover, friends, you know, psychiatrist. Sure. I mean, you know, you never know what you’re going to get. You know, it’s like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get. I mean, it could be anything from upscale routes to domination, to, you know, they want you to be their teacher, their secretary. I mean, you just never know, but I, I don’t cam on any of the networks, I just do my one hour a week on my own network being alive.

2 (6m 58s):
And the rest is just private Skype shows with, with fans.

1 (7m 2s):
Do you know how many sites you guys have now? 30 to 40? You said,

2 (7m 7s):
Just go Cause it does. It changes. Sometimes. Sometimes the girls leave for a little while and you know, they might think, oh, the grass is greener somewhere else. And then they come back or they just retire for a while. They just take time off and they, you know, they just, they come and go. So

1 (7m 26s):
How do you like kind of being the, the ringleader, the house mother or whatever it is for all these, all these porn stars.

2 (7m 38s):
I actually love it. You know, we’re, we’re a team. We work together the way the V and a live system works. I don’t know if you totally understand it. There’s not actually any money on the system. You don’t get paid for doing cam shows. It’s only girls who have subscription based membership sites and every girl is supposed to do one hour a week

1 (8m 2s):
Supposed to do right,

2 (8m 4s):
Right. Into what we call our cam ring. So it’s like an ongoing live content trade all the time. So every girl that’s in the network has a feed to their site. So a lot of the girls, I’m not their webmaster. We have girls like Daisy, Dustin, and lay love Kelly, cabana, Chelsie, double D all these girls that I’m not their webmaster. I don’t run their sites. I don’t get any money from their sites, but they cam on our network and they get the feeds so they can get, you know, 30, 40, 50 hours a week of live content for their members. So they get a nice mix of, you know, they get Sarah, Jay, they get Julia. And you know, you get teens, you get MILFs, you get penthouse pets, you get BBWs.

2 (8m 50s):
Sometimes we have some, some training girls on, on the site. It, it depends. And so you had a nice mix of everything. And so if you’re a solo girl, that’s great because you know, you’re competing, you’re one solo site is competing against naughty America and browsers with all their content in different sites. So it kind of puts you into that same ballpark. And we have 17,000 hours plus of archives that people can watch. So they get hooked up to that immediately. And then we have a members forum, which is pretty active also. So you get a lot out of it.

1 (9m 26s):
Yeah, I do. I do I get the impression when you said they’re supposed to do that? Not all of them do it. No.

2 (9m 33s):
And I used to be really tough about it. You know, if you didn’t do your schedule shows, I would kick you out of the network. In the beginning, I was kicking people out. I was really overzealous about it, but you know, in my old age of softened up a lot and you know, things have changed now, girls are making more money on only fans than they are on their websites. So I can’t be that enforcer that I used to be.

1 (9m 60s):
Should I ask that? You said your, you said your old age, you

2 (10m 3s):
Don’t do your shows. It’s going to show in your membership sales, you know, so it’s kind of a self-correcting system. If you don’t, if you’re not where you’re supposed to be, when you say you’re going to be there, it’s going to come back on you. So I don’t need to, I don’t, I don’t need to be that heavy because it fixes itself.

1 (10m 20s):
Well, that’s good. You said at your old age, should I ask how old you are?

2 (10m 24s):
I’m 55. My God.

1 (10m 26s):
You look wonderful. Thank

2 (10m 28s):
You. Especially for being so late at night.

1 (10m 32s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, you know, I saw, I saw Dolly Parton recently and I can’t believe she’s 75. Of course. I know. I started to my God, my God, she’s a Juul. Sure.

2 (10m 48s):
With her money, she can afford the best of every single procedure. Okay. I

1 (10m 52s):
Hope so. I would hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 75, my God, she’s still, still, it looks like she did 30 years ago, but 40 years ago, but that’s, that’s awesome. Yes. Plastic surgery is a wonderful thing. So tell us about the new cam system and why it’s so special.

2 (11m 11s):
I absolutely love it. We have audio for the members. So the models video is huge, obviously. And then we have a row across the bottom where I think what you, depending on the size of your monitor, obviously, but I have a 32 inch monitor so I can fit, I think, easily 10 or 12 cams across the bottom. I think we can go up to 20 members that can get on cam. And so there’ll be sliders where you can slide back and forth to see them all. And I can turn on their audio and they have an audio switch on their end to where they, they have to also allow their own audio. Right. And they can turn the audio of other members on and off as well.

2 (11m 53s):
So it’s quite fascinating. So we really get to know each other really well. And you know, my, I have had members who joined my website back in, when did I start my website? 2004, I think 2005. It started getting bigger. Yeah. I’ve had members that have stayed with me the whole time. They’ve been members for 14, 15 years, 16 years. Some of them. Yeah. So a lot of them have become really good friends. And we now refer to it like, cheers, you know, the place where everybody knows your name and everyone’s glad you came literally. And so we actually have a lot of female members now, too.

2 (12m 37s):
And they get on cam also sometimes they’ll get topless. We’ve had couples get on cam and the guy will give the girl a blow job right on cam. So I’ll just sit back and relax and watch the show.

1 (12m 49s):
Do you mean the girl will get, you mean, the girl would give the guy a blow drum?

2 (12m 53s):
Yeah. Oh no. You said

1 (12m 55s):
The opposite. I was going to say, well, that’d be, that’d be interesting. Yeah. So have you ever heard anything in the audio that I just want to hear?

2 (13m 6s):
Well, no, just on, on Sunday I was doing myself with a Hitachi and one of the girls was doing herself with a Hitachi at the same time and she was hollering and you know, it was such a turn on to be doing it together with everybody watching. And then she dropped the Hitachi right next to the microphone though, to her cam. And it was like, it’s like, it killed art. Like,

1 (13m 33s):
Yeah. That’ll, that’ll blow the old, that’ll blow the old eardrums out for sure.

2 (13m 38s):
Started thing. I mean, it’s, it’s a real community. I mean, you can join other websites and just, you know, randomly kind of generically download porn. But when you join the VNA, it’s different. You know, people do become friends. We actually had people meet in our cameras and on our member’s forum and then go meet outside in person. I think, you know, the woman was from Texas and the guy was from Montreal or something like that. And they actually met and dated for a long time and became a couple for a couple of years. So things like that happen or they come see us all at a convention where we’re all doing together and they all come hang out and we go out for dinner, we’ve gone bowling with all of the members we’ve gone on bicycle rides, rollerblading, you know, just things like that.

2 (14m 29s):
And so we really do not, we went out and sang karaoke one night with all the members after a convention.

1 (14m 35s):
Sounds like, sounds like the Vienna, the VNA social club.

2 (14m 41s):
Yeah. It really is. That’s how we try to make it. And you have to nowadays, I mean, there’s so much competition, but I mean, we’ve been doing that since day one. That’s how we started. That’s how we branded ourselves and made.

1 (14m 52s):
Yeah, well, that’s dare to be different. I always say now worked so far, obviously with COVID we haven’t been able to see each other for a while, which is really sad. Are how much are you looking forward to in person conventions? Again,

2 (15m 8s):
Be honest, a little while before. COVID my last convention that I went to was exotica New Jersey. And I had a really terrible experience. Now I’m really touchy, feely with my members. I mean, I go to extreme lengths to make sure that they get really good pictures. I mean, they’re paying money for these pictures. They want to show them to their friends. So, you know, I’ll take their hands and put them on my boobs. I’ll bend over and tell them to grab my hair and act like they’re having sex with me. And you know, or I’ll bin them over and act like I’m doing them. Or, you know, I, I do all this crazy stuff. And so I’m really nice to people. And this one guy kept on trying to put his finger up my JJ during, during the picture.

2 (15m 54s):
And I took his hand and put it back around my waist and I said, please don’t do that. And then we smiled for the camera and he went again, you know, I slapped his hand down and I S I said, look, you know, I’m just going to cancel this picture. Forget about, okay. Okay. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. So then we smile for the picture get, and does he need to do it again and got his finger right inside my panties right up my BJJ, it hurt. I was furious. I almost started crying because I just, I can’t even describe the feelings that was just overwhelming. And I screamed at him and told him to get out of my booth. And then of course people came running and chased them away.

2 (16m 36s):
And then I kind of stormed off and went to the restaurant and I’m like, I’m not doing this shit anymore. I’m done. I’m set up, you know, took a couple hours off, cool. Cooled off and went back to my booth. But that really changed my attitude because I never talked to me before

1 (16m 53s):
Traumatic. That’s really traumatic. I, I, I’m sorry. I gave you credit for not running him off the first time he tried it and maybe that’s and maybe, and maybe he in retrospect, that’s what you should have done. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, so maybe no more, no more fan shows.

2 (17m 12s):
No, I miss them now. I’ve pulled off. I’m over it. I’m okay. I’ll just probably be a little bit more careful and just maybe have a little bit more security around me in case it happens again.

1 (17m 23s):
It’s a good idea. Have a, have a, have a big formal, former football player that can flatten the guy. That would be what I would do. Find somebody who played linebacker at Ohio state or something like that. And that’ll take care of the problem. I don’t think anybody will mess with you. How about B2B shows? Yeah. I love them. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Looking forward

2 (17m 44s):
To, I mean, that’s where I make people like you.

3 (17m 46s):
Yeah. I miss my family. I miss my family

1 (17m 50s):
And the people in this industry are definitely my family. So it’s, it’s sad. It’s definitely a loss because I do enjoy that. I’m hoping for Prague in, in September, they’ve got one scheduled for July. Hi. I’d like to think that’s going to happen, but I okay. Well, they

2 (18m 7s):
Say by the end of may, everybody, at least in the U S everybody who wants a vaccine,

1 (18m 12s):
But not Europe, Europe, Europe’s way behind. They just started. Yeah. I mean, we’re recording this in beginning of March and they’re just starting vaccinations in Thailand. So they’re way behind. And I don’t even know if I want the vaccine. They have hair. So anyway, well, they got the AstraZeneca and they’ve got the one from China, which you’d have to pay me a million dollars to take, and I still might not take it. So anyway, there you go. I assume I should

2 (18m 50s):
Still get the vaccine, even though I had COVID.

1 (18m 53s):
Yes. Oh, you did? Yeah. How was that?

2 (18m 59s):
We were in Paris when all of this started last March a year ago.

1 (19m 5s):
I was in Arizona

2 (19m 7s):
At the Madonna concert. Oh, wow. With, with about 4,000 Italians. So chances of not getting it, where is it?

1 (19m 18s):
Italy? Yeah. Italy was the first place that really, really had a problem outside of China.

2 (19m 25s):
Well, we went to see Madonna at this theater. It was, so it was horribly packed. I mean, he could have moved. People were just like shoulder to shoulder in there and it was hot and sticky and, but the show was amazing. Oh,

1 (19m 41s):
Was it the first time you saw her? Yes. Yeah. I haven’t, I haven’t seen it. She comes right

2 (19m 46s):
Out in the audience and sits down with people. She’ll grab your beer and take a swig of it and talks to people. So she got COVID too.

1 (19m 57s):
Did she? And, and, and, and did you, I mean, was it, did you have it severely, did you, how was it

2 (20m 5s):
Friday? No, sorry. It was Wednesday. I was in bed. It was like two o’clock. I had just gone to sleep. Yeah. I was in Ireland at that time because we were moving around and all of a sudden my phone started going crazy. Everybody that I know in the USA started texting me, Hey, you got to come home right now. Donald Trump just made this decree that if you’re not home by Friday the 13th at midnight, you might not get back in this country. So he created this great big panic. So we had to, we had to give up sleep that

1 (20m 38s):
Night. He was good. He was, he was really good at that, by the way,

2 (20m 44s):
Sit on the phone all night long with Virgin, whoever British airways, try and get tickets to come back, which was nearly impossible because everybody was doing it. So the tickets were thousands of dollars. So we were in somewhere three hours, south of Dublin. So the next day we drove back to Dublin, got a same day ticket back to London, slept at the airport in London. The next day I got another same day ticket to come home on a plane that was crowded to the hilt. And people were just coughing all over us and you know, it was horrible. So I got home and I hadn’t slept for a couple of days. And I thought I just had jet lag. So I just, you know, took it easy and stayed in bed.

2 (21m 24s):
I just had severe muscle aches. Nothing else? Really? No fever, no cough, nothing just muscling.

1 (21m 31s):
Good. Good, good, good, good. You were one of the lucky ones. So what’s a, what’s a typical day like for you.

2 (21m 39s):
I get up in the morning and I go through about a hundred emails and then I go on my only fans and I go through about 200 messages over there. Try to sort out the important ones. Then I grabbed my dogs and go for a good run. Nice. And come back, eat, edit the videos that I shot the day before, update the websites. We have. We have a crew of people that work for us in Mexico. They actually edit video and update all the websites. So I check in with them. They also do uploading for us to all the tubes. We have another guy.

2 (22m 21s):
Well, we actually have two people in the Tampa area that worked for us. So check in with them. I have a programmer in Holland that does stuff for me, check in with him, make sure the cam system is working check in with the guy that does the archive, you know, so it’s just a lot of just babysitting everything and plus doing my own stuff. It’s, it’s getting harder and harder because I don’t know anymore my model and my a webmaster and my manager, like, you know, I still edit my own videos. What am I? I’m just like everything. I’m a little bit of everything.

1 (22m 56s):
Well, it sounds like you’ve got a well-oiled machine there. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s quite an operation you’ve got.

2 (23m 3s):
Yeah. And we’ve always kind of been outsiders, you know, we’ve never really been in the LA clinic because we’re in Florida before that we were in Atlanta, Georgia. So I’ve never really been kind of the in crowd, I guess, kind of like an island. You know, we do everything in house until it got too big and then we started hiring it out, but not to the typical people, but finally, after all this time, I’m with mojo host and I have Conrad from NEC bunny, if you know him. So he’s the one that did this amazing cam system for us. So

1 (23m 39s):
He’s very good. He’s very good as mojo host. No doubt, no doubt about it. Oh, and by the way, you, you pronounced Florida different than you did in your email.

2 (23m 50s):
I said Florida. Yeah. That’s

1 (23m 51s):
Better. That’s better. Okay. Much. Very good. Very good. How do you feel about PornHub?

2 (23m 59s):
I was in this business before PornHub and if they’re ever gone, I’ll probably still be here after, but you know, you have to play the cards that you’re dealt and if it was just me, I might do things differently, but because I’m responsible for the paychecks of a whole bunch of other girls, I have to make sure that everybody makes money in every single possible way. So, you know, you got to dance with the devil. Right.

1 (24m 29s):
Okay. So I guess, I guess your, I guess your feelings about it, isn’t a them and other tubes. Isn’t exactly positive. Well,

2 (24m 38s):
We’re actually making a lot of money off of the other tubes. Like way more. Yeah.

1 (24m 45s):
Why, why, why? Way more than, than PornHub. No, they’re big. I don’t,

2 (24m 50s):
I don’t. Yeah, but you know, we make way more from X hamster and X videos

1 (24m 59s):
Or has never been big for us. Yeah. That’s interesting. Not

2 (25m 3s):
Sure why, but since they got rid of all the stolen porn, our website sales on all the sites have gone up and all of the, all of the affiliate sales from PornHub and even from the other tubes, all the fully sales have gone up as well. So that’s been good for us. It’s

1 (25m 22s):
Amazing what it took to finally have that happen. But it’s a, it’s a wonderful thing for the industry. And I think in the long run, it’ll be a wonderful thing for them too. I think they, I think that that whole thing not necessarily positive for the industry because of the negative publicity, but at the same time, I think that PornHub is going to come out ahead and the whole industry will come out ahead because a lot of the unauthorized, all the unauthorized content on a way, which is, which is great,

2 (25m 52s):
But you know, if only it had been like that the whole time, it would have been

1 (25m 56s):
Great. Yup. Yup. Yup. Well that, wasn’t their original business model, unfortunately. And yeah. Dance with the devil, I guess that’s the best way to put it. Huh. Now do you think there will always be pay sites? Something, some people say it’s a thing. Yeah.

2 (26m 15s):
Yes. Because it’s your, it’s your base, you know, so many other platforms just come and go. I mean, I’m sure if you sit here and think for a minute, you can come up with a lot of names of platforms that have gone under, right. Yeah. And you know, for a while, Snapchat was huge, right. And now Snapchat is kind of gone down and then it’s only fans and then it’s something else. And you know, your, your website is going to always be there. And plus you can put all your links to everything on your website. Of course the affiliates hate that because you know, people go to your site and then they jump to the other social media, but we have to be fair to the girls and give them proper exposure and keep their star as high as possible everywhere.

2 (26m 59s):
But yeah, people always come back to this place. And a lot of times people will join only fans. And they’ll find it’s getting really expensive, paying $10 for every single video. So then they’ll join your site too. And they jumped back and forth. And then you have the super fans that follow you everywhere. There’ll be on, they’ll buy your mini vids, they’ll buy your loyal fans. They’ll buy your only fans will buy your website. They’ll, they’ll go everywhere that you are.

1 (27m 22s):
Yeah. You talked about the affiliates and the, and the, you know, the referred to the traffic leaks involved with the, with linking to other things it’s necessary. And they’re not going to find a site now that doesn’t do that. Right. So it can be frustrated, but they’ll have to be frustrated with the industry because it’s the whole industry.

2 (27m 44s):
Exactly. And you just have to be everywhere. You have to be, you have to try everything and see which one works.

1 (27m 50s):
Indeed. Indeed. So how is the VNA different from other networks?

2 (27m 57s):
It’s a community. It’s not just a place where you go to download porn. It’s actually a community. We have a requests thread in the forum. Cool. So guys can post, I would love to see you doing, you know, whatever. And you know, lo and behold, a week or two later, there it is on the site it’s done for them. We use, we use their name sometimes in the videos. Yeah. It’s, it’s personal. It’s really personal. And I, I know the dog’s names of my members.

1 (28m 30s):
Yeah. That’s neat. Yeah. Any time you make things personal and you make things interactive, it’s going to have a lot more chance of being successful as opposed to just porn on a site.

2 (28m 46s):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We do a good, we do a really good job of that. I think. Sorry. It’s always been our strength. Yeah.

1 (28m 53s):
Well, and yeah. And it sounds like your members,

2 (28m 55s):
We’re still in the game, even with all this competition, crazy amount of competition from only fans and everywhere

1 (29m 3s):
Else. Yeah. But there’s no competition to what you do from what I see. I think you guys are one of a kind, I’m surprised more. Haven’t tried to emulate you so good for you, you know? Yeah. Good for you. It’s all. It’s, it’s all Vicky. I mean, you’re, you’re the one that started it and you’ve put it all together. So you deserve a lot of credit, you know, you’re one of a kind, there’s no two ways about it. Now. How do you feel about Twitter going to a new pay model?

2 (29m 32s):
I think it’s a good thing. If, if the end result is that we don’t have to post all of our nude stuff on Twitter, then it’s a good thing. I think all porn should be behind paywall. Yeah. I mean, that’s how it should be. And the only reason why I have to post, I try not to post pink on Twitter. Only, only topless, but even in our website tours, you know, we have explicit content in our tours. All you have to do is click the button that says I’m over 18. And then you get to see pink. And I don’t think that’s correct, but we don’t have a choice because even if we stopped doing it here in the states, they’re still going to do it in all the other countries.

2 (30m 13s):
So if we want to compete, we don’t have a choice. We have to do it. But if somehow we could get at where everything is behind a paywall, I think that would be, be a good thing because 12 and 13 year old boys are looking at Twitter and seeing, you know, anal prolapse videos and the stuff they put out there for free it’s, it’s traumatic, Twitter needs. They shouldn’t be exposed

1 (30m 38s):
To that. Yeah. Twitter, Twitter needs to definitely moderate that because that’s, you know, that that should not be happening.

2 (30m 46s):
So if they go the same as Instagram, I’m totally good with that. I think it’s going to only be better for business.

1 (30m 53s):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For sure.

2 (30m 55s):
You honestly want to see the pink go join my site.

1 (30m 58s):
Yeah, definitely. But not if you’re 12 or 13,

2 (31m 2s):
By the way, as

1 (31m 5s):
An aside, as an aside, they, they tried to Institute age verification in Europe and so far they’ve failed. Although I, I think eventually it’s going to happen and I also expect it to happen in the states. What are your feelings about

2 (31m 19s):
If everybody would do it together, it would be a good thing, but that’s the problem there isn’t, there’s no unity. Hm.

1 (31m 28s):
Yeah. I think, I think it’s something the industry should, you should do before it gets put on us, because if we do it, then it’s going to be a lot less traumatic and we won’t have governments telling us how to.

2 (31m 43s):
Yeah. But how do you get all the different countries to do it together?

1 (31m 47s):
That’s a good question. I mean, how

2 (31m 48s):
Do you talk to Brazil and Germany and, you know,

1 (31m 52s):
Get them to talk to him. Yeah, yeah. That

2 (31m 55s):
Would be nice. We can’t even get, you know, people in our own neighborhood to talk to each other. Yeah. But yeah, but

1 (32m 2s):
You’re yeah, but you’re, you’re in Florida. How does it Howard? How is it to live in Florida? By the way? I mean, I, you know, it seems like every

2 (32m 15s):
Week there’s no COVID here.

1 (32m 17s):
Yeah. Right? Yeah. No, Texas either since they’ve gotten rid of all their rules, again, we’re recording this in early March, so I’m sure the rules will be back on we by the time this, the strops, but that’s just the way things go. But I mean, it seems like every strange story comes out of Florida,

2 (32m 37s):
But there’s a reason for that. Yes. There’s, there’s a lot of crazy people in Florida, but there’s a lot of crazy people in every state, but Florida has this open policy where anything that happens, it goes up on the internet that night, like somehow an hour later doesn’t acknowledge. So there’s all these. Huh. And it doesn’t elsewhere. No it doesn’t. Yeah. So there’s, you know, these, all these websites forget the name of them, but there’s all these websites, but every they’re, they’re checking every hour, you know, Florida what happened because it’s publicly available like that. So they have fodder for their, you know, their clickbait or you know, all their stuff that they post, it’s not available for other, I think you really, you really

1 (33m 25s):
Think that’s the only thing I don’t know. Okay. Okay. All right. If you all know, there’s crazy people in Thailand, trust me and lots of them. Lots of them too. But I just, I just think there seems to be a different level of crazy in Florida. Just my

2 (33m 43s):
People have sex with their tailpipe of their car.

1 (33m 47s):
Yes. Yes. Things like that. Things like

2 (33m 49s):
That. I heard a man found.

1 (33m 53s):
Yeah, just Google, Google, Florida, man. You’re going to be, you’re going to be a, you’re going to be reading all day. I love it. I love it. So how does it feel being a veteran in this industry 18 years now? I mean, that’s, that’s really,

2 (34m 11s):
Whoever knew that would happen. It was supposed to be part time. Yeah. No, it was, it was just for fun. It was, I just wanted to be a little bit adventurous, crazy, have some fun and it just turned into this. So I just went with it. I mean, I was in building with my second husband and that started making more money than, than the building business. So I was like, well, this is more fun.

1 (34m 41s):
We’re in construction.

2 (34m 42s):
Yeah. We used to build log homes, custom log homes. Oh cool. Yeah. And then that kind of took a, a nosedive, you know, 2007, 2008. So it was perfect timing. Just switched over to this full time.

1 (34m 57s):
And, and what are your observations as to adult then an adult? No,

2 (35m 3s):
It’s completely different. You know, when I started right, we had store signings. You know, you did a movie, they made a poster of you, beautiful poster. You would have a box cover shoot. You would have beautiful hair and makeup. Oh, The days of catered food and just spending all day there and they treat you like a queen pay so much money and it was so great. You know, you get to shoot anything you want. Yeah. And so they would make a poster of you. They would hang it up in the, in the stores, you would have store signings where people would come and shower you with money.

2 (35m 46s):
You would go on feature dancing tours in the clubs and people just throw money at you. You know, you would do radio interviews once in a while you had a press person telling you what to say, how to answer questions, maybe telling you how to dress, helping you out, you know, telling you what looks good on you now you’re just on your own. You are, you are the front line. You’re on Twitter. And if you say something stupid, oh boy.

1 (36m 17s):
And there’s a lot of that. There’s a lot of that.

2 (36m 20s):
It’s completely different, but it is better in a lot of ways too, because yes, we’re more in control, but you know, women are more in control now, but still not enough. I mean, if we, if we look at all the companies, you know, chatter, bait streaming my free cams, video secrets, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all the tube sites, women don’t own any of these companies. Right? It’s all male dominated. It’s still male dominated. I don’t care what anybody tells you. They keep trying to sell this, that women are in charge, but it’s, we’re getting better. We’re climbing the corporate ranks, but we’re not there yet. But

1 (36m 60s):
It doesn’t don’t platforms like, like only fans and platforms like that. The copycats, the other ones that are like that, don’t those kind of puts you in more control.

2 (37m 16s):
Yes, absolutely. That’s what I’m saying. We’re going in the right direction.

1 (37m 20s):
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And there are some females CEOs. I know Alison Alison’s had kink and you know, and there are some others, so yeah. Yeah. It’s getting better. It’s bedding getting better. So how did you get started in the industry

2 (37m 40s):
With beaver hunt? I was sitting at home, flipping through a hustler, lusting over some of the women. And I looked at my husband and said, do you think she’s high? You think I should send my pitcher in? Look at this contest. He’s like, yes, send it in, send it in. I’ll take the pictures. So we sent them in all of a sudden, you know, I was a semifinalist. They called me and he said, are you serious? Do you really want to do? I’m like, yeah. So they flew me out to LA, I got $1,500. They put us up in a hotel, paid both for our airfare, came out there and did a photo shoot. It was such a piece of cake. I’m like, wow, this is like taking candy from a baby.

2 (38m 22s):
And while I was there, they introduced me to, I can’t remember the girl’s name now, but they said, would you do a girl, girl photo layout with her? And I said, yes, absolutely. You know? So, so then that was nice layout in, was it Sherry magazine or one of those then, you know, the contest goes on for awhile, the readers and fans vote. So then I won the grand prize. Wow. So they brought us out again, this time was $5,000 prize. Got the cover of the magazine. And by then my phone was ringing off the hook w from LA direct wanting to, for me to start doing movies.

2 (39m 3s):
So yeah, so it was so easy because we were already swingers anyways. So it was, you know, no big deal,

1 (39m 11s):
Big leap. So, so what were you started with hustler? What were your feelings about Larry Flint passing

2 (39m 19s):
Tragic. He was a legend and he was so nice to me. As, as I told you, I was the oldest beaver they ever had. And so when I went in his office for him to give me the check, you know, I talked to him for a little bit and I said, you know, do you think I’m too old to be starting por? And he said, no, he talked to me a bit. And he said, I think that you can do anything you want, anything you decide to do in this business, you can do. So he was really nice to me.

1 (39m 49s):
That must have been quite a vote of confidence coming from him.

2 (39m 52s):
It was. Yeah, exactly.

1 (39m 55s):
So what’s the secret of staying in the business so long.

2 (39m 58s):
Don’t screw anybody over. Just always be fair and equal to everybody. Just do the right thing. Don’t get a bad reputation. It’s really as simple as that work hard. Yeah. I don’t know. I’ve had this network for this long and we’ve never had a problem with any talent ever. Like you would never find anybody out there gossiping about us or, or saying anything bad because we’re, we’re just really, really fair. Every decision that we ever make is based on what’s going to be better for the girls.

1 (40m 33s):
Yeah. I can tell that because you’ve referred to it many times. Yeah. And not screwing anybody over. I I’m a hundred percent on that, man, because I, I refuse to do that and word travels so fast. Oh my God. It travels fast. Especially with social social media. Now

2 (40m 52s):
You actually feel bad now that I was such a Hitler back in the day when I first started the, the network, you will do your show. I thought you were from Sweden. Not Germany. I’m actually parked German.

1 (41m 10s):
Oh, there you go. Okay. That

2 (41m 13s):
Was half an hour a week. And I’m not Sweden. My mother was Norwegian and my father was half German and half Norwegian.

1 (41m 21s):
I got what I said a half hour ago. Okay. So, because if it’s late at night for you, it’s early in the morning for me. So how long are you going to keep doing this?

2 (41m 33s):
I don’t. As long as people still want to see me naked, I guess somebody still wants to pay for me to take my clothes off. Who am I to argue?

1 (41m 43s):
That’s right. That’s right. And I don’t know. I look

2 (41m 47s):
At you. Do you know, do, may do ma, D E a U X, M a. I still can’t say her name properly. I should, but I bet she is. I think, oh, I celebrated her 60th birthday with her. Wow. Right before COVID last February. I think it was or January or something, whatever, in, in Mexico. So she must be 61 now 62 even. And she looks amazing. She has this flat, flat belly. She looks better than all the 20 and 30 year olds.

1 (42m 23s):
Yeah. I guess, I guess, you know, being over 30, you have to, you have to really watch what you eat and exercise, which you said you run, which is great.

2 (42m 37s):
Yeah. Yeah. But she keeps threatening to retire all the time. Every year. She says, this is my last year. This is my last year, eight years now.

1 (42m 48s):
And there’s sh and there she is. So you, you obviously take good care of yourself, which is important.

2 (42m 54s):
Yeah, I try. Yeah. I like talking about a lot though.

1 (42m 58s):
It shows, it shows, oh, dog shaking. I’ve had that on my interviews before too. We have four. Do you ever get tired of interacting with fans? Once

2 (43m 9s):
In awhile, I have to take a break for a day or two. So I will put my phone away and just not look at my email and just, you know, do civilian things. I’m actually involved in a lot of, I take some classes and I’m involved in a lot of other extracurricular activities outside of porn. So sometimes you just need to take a mental break from it. And then after about two days you start missing it like crazy. And then you want to jump back right back in, because I sex a lot on my phone with guys and I don’t know how, how other girls are, but when I’m sexting, I really am turned on. Like I really am into it.

2 (43m 49s):
I’m not faking it. I’m really actually having fun. There’s only, there’s a limit to how much you can do that. Right before it does start to kind of get old and get on your nerves. And you’re like, if I see one more, a Dick pic scream. So like doing it myself, you know, most girls, they have assistance that when you think you’re sexting with them, it’s really not them. I mean, I have, I know girls that it’s actually their mother.

1 (44m 22s):
Yeah. I was going to say, unlike a lot of them, you’re not 300 pounds.

2 (44m 28s):
No, I know a girl that she had her grandmother working time for her answering the, the sexting and sending out her pictures.

1 (44m 37s):
Oh my God. Oh my God.

2 (44m 40s):
Yeah. It’s really me.

1 (44m 41s):
I’m sure granting was hot.

2 (44m 44s):
And that’s why some of those guys get irritated at me too. They’ll be, they’ll be texting me at 4:00 AM and there’ll be mad by 5:00 AM. They’re like, where are you? Why aren’t you answering me? 6:00 AM. Oh, well, fuck you, bitch. You can’t answer my texts. I’m like, hello, I’m sleeping. You know? Cause they’re used to other accounts where someone’s going to always be answering them because they have them on shifts. They have different people doing eight hour shifts, always taking care of their accounts so they can get the maximum amount of money out of it. But you’re never actually talking to the object of your desire. Yeah.

1 (45m 15s):
That’s, that’s true. It’s kind of like in business, you know, I get it. I get emails two, three in the morning, you know, and they’re frantically wanting to talk to me and it’s like, well, unless you’re, unless you’re in bed with me, you’re not going to talk to me. So there you go. So I originally met you through ex-business dot net posting. How do you feel about industry boards in general?

2 (45m 40s):
I always feel guilty that I’m not on the boards as much as they want me to be. I feel like I’m, I’m failing them somehow, but you know, if you’re on a board all day, having these huge conversations, you can’t be actually working. I mean, how do you have time to be doing your work, right. Unless you’re at a point in your career where you have everything organized and everybody else doing all the work, you know, I still physically have a lot of work to do. Like I said, I edit videos. I put them up and I’m sexting, I’m shooting, you know? Right. I’m working out. I mean, the only time I’m not working usually is I’m either exercising, walking the dogs or eating.

2 (46m 24s):
Other than that, if I’m awake, I’m working. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I just don’t have time to post on the boards and then people always make me feel guilty that I’m not contributing. Yeah. And then there’s, then there’s boards where people get into all these political fights and you start insulting each other. And then you’re just like, I don’t want to read this.

1 (46m 47s):
Yeah. That’s been, that’s been, that’s been an issue. That’s definitely been an issue that I, I have problems with. And I’ve, I’ve been an advocate of a separate political board. So if people want to argue about Donald Trump, they can do it elsewhere because when it comes to to business, I’d rather not talk about it. I’d rather not talk about him anyway. But when it comes to business, I’d rather not talk about it. That’s that’s for Facebook who keeps banning me for wishing people happy birthday. But anyway, I’ve

2 (47m 19s):
Had six Facebook accounts closed. I’ve given up. I haven’t.

1 (47m 23s):
Yeah. But yeah. But yeah, but Vicki, this isn’t about business. I got Heidi. Got it. I got a 30 day for wishing a friend happy birthday. Cause I kind of told a joke that made it sound like hate speech. So he said, so, so they said it’s hate speech. And then I got another one for a meme that I reposted from Facebook before my 30 day ban. I got another 30 day ban. Finally shut the account. Now as yesterday, my business account, it says your access is limited and I can’t even like a post. So yeah, I’m about ready to give up. I’m just about ready to give up. So, and

2 (48m 3s):
The thing is they banned me all the time and they leave all the imposters. Yeah, of course. If you go look on Facebook, you’ll probably find about six, eight, 10 Vicki vets and none of them

1 (48m 13s):
And lots and lots of Russian trolls. So they never ban. So would you ever sell VNA? Hint, hint, hint.

2 (48m 27s):
Oh boy. Wow. I don’t know. Not, not any time soon. I don’t think I’m done yet. And of course, if I ever was to do something like that, I mean, how do you S what’s it, what’s it worth? How do you sell it? I

1 (48m 42s):
Mean, we can talk offline. We can talk. We can talk. Yeah, we can talk offline, but we can talk offline about it. It would be complicated, but it’s certainly something we could come to a, you have to get

2 (48m 53s):
Every girl’s agreement that, you know, you’re going to keep this together as one unit and sell it and everyone’s going to have to be happy with the, with the terms.

1 (49m 4s):
Interesting. That’d be interesting. Well, yeah, yeah. It would be a, it would be complicated, but Hey, I’ve dealt with complicated deals before. Yeah.

2 (49m 15s):
But, but not any time soon anyway. Cause I don’t think I’m quite done yet.

1 (49m 21s):
I can tell, I can tell the passion. The passion is still there. My dare. The passion is still there.

2 (49m 28s):
No, I’m pretty happy. I think it’s probably the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. Honestly. I

1 (49m 33s):
Can tell, I can tell it shows. So what’s the best advice you can give to someone just starting out in the industry,

2 (49m 41s):
Besides on your own URL, don’t do things that you don’t want to do. I don’t know how many girls have seen that. Got pushed into doing anal when they didn’t want to. If you don’t do it at home, don’t do it on camera. Right? I shot one time with this girl that she was drinking vodka at eight o’clock in the morning on our Shane, because it was the only way that she could do it, you know? And then that stuff just messes with your head later on and try every platform. It’s we have so much more power. Now when I was working for companies, you had no say over anything.

2 (50m 21s):
I mean, I was, I think one of the lucky ones, because I could have a no list and say who I didn’t want to work with, but a lot of the newer girls coming in, they just put you with whoever and you don’t have a say about it. I mean, I didn’t want to do ATM. And they tried to force me to do that. And you know, it just, wasn’t my thing. They, they give you a toy with no batteries in it. And they’re like faking orgasm. I’m like, why would I want to fake an orgasm? Put the fucking batteries in and don’t have a real one. What one of you got much better? I mean, and they, and they go, no, you’re an actress. Act like, no, go to the store and get me the batteries.

1 (51m 2s):
Give me the Energizer bunny. Dammit.

2 (51m 5s):
Yeah. But that’s the kind of thing you have no control over anything. So now, you know, th that’s why I basically stopped in 2006. I only shot for myself for my own site. So I could shoot with who I wanted, what I wanted when I wanted, how I wanted, you know, just have control and own everything. So I’m still making money now off of content that I shot in 2006, seven, eight, nine, it’s all up on the tubes and you know, everything’s making money, whereas everyone else, that’s not going to happen. You’re you’re, you’re like a day labor. You just get paid one time for the scene and that’s it. You don’t see another dime off of it.

2 (51m 46s):
Right? Right. Advice own as much as you can yourself and put it out there on every avenue, multi-purpose everything and try every platform. And some are going to take off in the summer. Not figure it out.

1 (52m 3s):
Makes sense. Well, Vicky, this was delightful. I’d really like to thank you for being our guest today on adult side broker talk. And I hope we have a chance to do it again really soon. My broker tip today is part, one of how to buy a site. The first question to ask yourself is what kind of site would you like to buy? Would you like a tube site, a campsite, a dating site, a membership site, a social media site or something else. If you want to buy a membership site, what type of site do you want? And what niche? There are literally hundreds of niches and many sub-niches. For instance, let’s say you want to buy a gay site under gay there’s bears are mature, bareback, Asian, Latino, amateur by black Euro and fetish, along with many fetishes under that classification.

1 (52m 54s):
Plus there’s hardcore shocks, porn stars, solo trans twinks, and uniforms straight has even more sub niches. I can’t tell you how many people contact me and just say, I want to buy a site or I want to buy a pay site. I need more information than that. How you make this decision should be based on these factors. What interests you, what you enjoy should definitely play a part in what you buy. If you like man, and want to make money on a straight site. That’s probably a really bad idea. Same thing. If you’re straight and want to buy a gay site. So what you like plays a part, what is your budget? This is something you need to establish at the very beginning.

1 (53m 36s):
Not only do you need to know what it is you’re working with, but some classifications of sites are more expensive than others. For instance, if you want a cam site with any traffic or revenue at all, you’re going to need a lot of money. In fact, to buy any established site will be somewhat expensive. If you buy a site, that’s pretty much just a platform without traffic or sales, you’ll need a huge investment to build it up. In that case, it might actually be as good or better just to start your own site. That way you get exactly what it is you’re looking for. We’ll talk about this subject more next week. And next week we’ll be talking to comedian podcast, hostess and performer, Cape Kennedy.

1 (54m 19s):
nd next week we’ll be talking to podcast hostess, comedian and adult star Kate Kennedy.

0 (1h 6m 55s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest Vicky Vette. Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with .

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Now here’s our property of the week that’s for sale at Adult Site Broker, we’re proud to list for sale. A network of two mainstream flirt chat sites. The sites get their traffic from the UK, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands and New Zealand, both their mainstream flirt chat websites with credit monetization on a pay per message basis.

1 (1m 26s):
They have a loyal customer base of 27,000 plus real members with many customers still active from 2017. Some have spent more than 10,000 euros. The average customer spends 450 euros. The sites have very steady recurring revenue with very low overhead and a proven ROI of 900% on every Euro spent on affiliate marketing. These sites have room to grow from where they are now. The weekly upkeep of the sites requires very little time and most of the work consists of promoting the sites to bring in new customers and tease the existing 27,000 plus strong member database.

1 (2m 7s):
Many great markets are yet on tap for these sites, but could easily be added such as Germany, France, and the USA. Thanks to the non adult nature. You can easily promote them via Google and email. You can buy these two great sites now for only 484,000 euros. Now time for this week’s interview my guest today on a don’t say it broker tuck his entry ass bitch off of the T E S affiliate conferences. Andrea, thanks for being with us today, Anna, don’t say broker talk. Thank you very much for having me, Bruce. It’s a pleasure now, and it’s been a long time coming. My friend, I’ve been begging you to get on my show now, Andrea, this is one of the two organizers of the T S affiliate conferences and the Island gathering TES affiliate conferences, formally the European summit.

1 (2m 57s):
And before that I’ve got a good memory. The Barcelona summit

2 (3m 1s):
Were founded in 2009 with the event bringing together professionals from the online entertainment industry, e-commerce financial gaming, gambling, dating Forex, binary options, health nutraceuticals, and many other markets for an intensive three-day networking event. Their next event is their first hybrid live and virtual event in Maribela Spain, July 3rd through the fifth. Now from the outset, a T E S was intent on creating a great networking experience for its attendees and delegates because in our high tech world, it’s still of great importance that excellent relationships be developed and maintained as these are the cornerstones of building a successful business.

2 (3m 49s):
And let me just say that Andreas and Walter run the premier conferences in our industry now and Dre us, how were the preparations coming for the upcoming hybrid T S affiliate conference

3 (4m 2s):
Coming along actually pretty, pretty well, obviously not everything depends this time on, on us. Yes. So that’s why you might’ve noticed that we’ve opened a virtual registration already on first off offer June. So people can already register for the hybrid part for the virtual part of the hybrid conference. Yes. Which they are doing very, very much in the first five days we had 500 registration, which is a new record, new Bonnie record. Yeah. So, so if we would keep that up, we would come up to 5,000 attendees in June. So it’s big numbers where we’re talking.

3 (4m 41s):
Obviously people are taking us off of, up on our offer regarding the, the live part of the hybrid conference. Actually, we’re waiting for news from the Spanish government today. Today’s the 9th of May of, for the listeners to know. And this is a big day in Spain until two day in 9th of May. Spain has been in a, in a lockdown. So today is the government will announce what happens tomorrow. So Walter and I are, yeah, just waiting for the news to, to drop in because that will obviously have an impact on what we can do and what we can not do.

3 (5m 22s):
And so basically we expect by next week to the Spanish government to tell us exactly how many entrance tickets we’re allowed to, to sell, which is the main thing currently as of today, we are already allowed to host an outdoor garden conference. Could if it would happen today, it would be only with 150 people. But again, we expect that number to go up by next week since the overall development in Europe is finally a very, very positive one was a lot of people getting vaccinated as these days and even more in the, in June.

3 (6m 2s):
So by July, whoever wants to attend ha has had a chance to, to get vaccinated or to, to probably attend with a, was a valid PCR test or something similar. Again, those rules we’ll find out from the Andrew Lewis and from the Spanish government this week. Unfortunately this interviews coming a week too early for, for this new spot we’ll make, we’ll make, we’ll make sure to get the word out, any help. And therefore we will open life registration on 1st of June, 2021 at 8:30 AM Madrid time. I say that again, that is 8:30 AM Madrid time on the 1st of June, why I repeat this is very important because I do not expect that we will have enough entrance tickets for everyone who wants to attend.

3 (6m 56s):
Maybe the Spanish government allows us to have 300 attendees or 400 or 500 or a thousand. But what as ever does that number will be that we’re allowed to sell on entrance to goods. I’m sure it’s smaller than the amount of people who want to attempt did it because people are desperate to get out of the house today. Everyone me included. I’m so, so happy to get out of the house finally. So the demand will be huge and the offer will be small. So that means set your alarm June 1st, 8:30 AM, Madrid time first come, first serve. So you snooze you lose. I am fairly sure we will not have enough tickets for every one.

3 (7m 38s):
So be aware of that. It’s a warning. Okay.

2 (7m 45s):
Now, now given the current situation, I mean, it sounds at this point, like you do think you’re gonna, you’re gonna still have a live portion, right?

3 (7m 55s):
I’m growing more confident every day. I mean, if you would have asked me the same question two weeks ago, four weeks ago, I probably would have given you a rather negative outlook. But as of today, Walter and I are very, very confident that we’ll be alive portion against things are going very well. Find it even in Europe, is that great news. I mean, in, in, in Germany that just have 1.1 million vaccines gone out per day. That’s huge numbers. There, there, the second provider opening up here, more, more vaccines will be pushed out.

3 (8m 35s):
It’s going better by the day in Germany. Now anyone can get a vaccine any age doesn’t matter anymore. So anyone sinks are really, really picking up the North of Germany, for example, has, has opened up now with its hotels and its beaches and everything. So the, the, the, the good news it’s pouring in every, every day where again, two, three, two, three weeks only go, it was all bad news. And I would really, really sad. We’re not sure, but as of today, as that, it’s only good news coming in every day. And we got another two to two months to go.

3 (9m 17s):
So by July things will look, look quite, quite, quite well. And also the latest news, if you might’ve read it is Spain will open to all countries in the world in June. So that’s another great, great news. So wherever you’re from in the world, you can from June on enter the country. And that means that there’s no, no reason why you wouldn’t be able to attend our conference at the beginning of, of July. And by the way, by the way that in the intro, you sat at three til five, actually it’s a second Tilth.

2 (9m 51s):
Second to the fifth. Sorry about that. Yes, yes, yes. I appreciate that. Now, why did you decide to host a hybrid conference now, considering I know in the past you haven’t been a fan of, of the virtual conferences.

3 (10m 7s):
I’m still not, of course everyone likes life better than, than a hybrid. So our core business will always be hybrid. I mean, we’re, we’re getting out of the pen damn make we’re not out there yet. What we’ve seen due to the, to the loss-making nature of virtual conferences currently, there’s a, there’s a hole in the market, a gap, and of 2020, you will have you’ll remember every week there was a virtual conference going on and we said, why should we go in there if, if there’s a virtual conference every week.

3 (10m 46s):
So the why not lose that money in an overcrowded market. Currently, as you’ve seen, everyone has a chance to lose money and nobody’s doing virtual conferences anymore in our industry. So we figured at the moment we can only host a couple of hundred people in, in <inaudible>. So why not give a couple of thousand people that chance to, to experience that life event from the homes? And we’ll, we’ll see how it pans out is that we will lose a lot of money. And so the plan is still to, to, to host hybrid conference in the future.

3 (11m 28s):
But again, yeah, we, we have to look at its financials and how much, the life events that will then have to subsidize the, the virtual event, but it is also a good, a good, I see it as a marketing tool to get our name out. I mean, it also, for, it’s always been only, let’s say 2000 people, but if we go to the hybrid way, we can have three, four, five, 10,000 people eventually. And some of, some of those lost making virtual people will say, Hey, you, what I’ve seen there, and now I’ve experienced what they’re doing remotely and looks interesting too, to actually be there physically. And then that might be a way that the virtual part actually pays back.

3 (12m 13s):
It’s stepped to the, to the life part. And I, I, I see it as a, as a marketing, it’s a sunk cost and it’s a marketing expense for us.

1 (12m 22s):
Sure, absolutely. Now talk a little bit about the venue of the hybrid T S affiliate conference. What does the preliminary schedule look like? And are there going to be parties?

3 (12m 34s):
The, the venue will be the wonderful five-star hotel resort located in, in mafia. It’s a Don Carlos resort and they have some huge tropical gardens. It’s really, really a beautiful, is that a tropical garden? It’s, it’s wonderful and close to the close to the beach and close to a Nikki beach club. So it’s, it’s, it’s a great location, even though vaccines are being rolled out and everything is going great, we figured people would still not be so comfortable to be inside. And so we, we, according to the experts, there’s basically no chance to close to no chance to infect yourself outdoor.

3 (13m 15s):
So we, we set to keep everyone safe and relaxed. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll do our first outdoor event ever. And my BI has the nice, that’s why we came up with smoke. Maria has the adventure that it it’s one of the driest spots of all of Europe. So it only rains on average two days a month in July. So the chance that we will be effected by rain is very small. So we’re very confident that we can host everything outdoor and yeah, I think it’ll be just nicer. June. July is, is one of the best months in, in my bed’s not too hot.

3 (13m 56s):
And yeah, so we’ll be able to build an ice, chill out a business launch outdoors, and there are people can, can have a cocktail and talk business and walk around to the tropical gardens. And, and yeah, I think it’s a really, really nice and special setting.

1 (14m 14s):
Nice. Now what COVID-19 measures will be taken for the conference,

3 (14m 18s):
That is, again, a question that comes unfortunately, week two earlier, because we will get the, the news, as I said today from the Spanish, government’s quite difficult to say, but I think they will be less restrictive than as of today, as of today outside. I think you would have to wear a mask and to keep a distance that’s all. And if you are seated on a table of up to six people as of today, you would be allowed to take your mask off until July a lot can. So what I just described is let’s say the worst case scenario until July. I, I expect that this restriction might, might become a little bit easier still.

3 (15m 5s):
I, I would recommend to the people to be relaxed. Yeah. Wear a mask, keep your meta 50 distance. And, and then I think we should all be, be, be fine as for the requirement requirements to enter again, we’re waiting that information today. Obviously, if you’re vaccinated, I’m sure you will not have any, any issues. If you do a, a daily test, I’m also fairly sure that that will not be an issue. If that can be a quick test. I don’t know if it has to be a PCR test. I don’t know. So unfortunately the interview comes a week to two early, but I’m sure it will all be a manageable if said everything’s going well.

3 (15m 51s):
And also obviously Spain creates business and, and one student to do the best to, to, to host conference again. But on the other hand, not at any price, I just read that my, my beer is one of the highest certified con cities in the world when it comes to COVID-19 measures protection. So I have to look up the article, but they got two or three certificates of excellence when it comes to managing Covid and, and Corona.

3 (16m 32s):
So your, your, your listeners might want to verify what I just said by just Googling it on, on the internet, but maybe BS one of the, of the, of the cities in the world that is handling <inaudible> grown-up measures the best.

1 (16m 52s):
Great. Now, now traveling during these times can be really challenging. Are you going to be able to provide attendees with a visa invitation letter in order to help them ease their travel plans to, to Maribel engine in July?

3 (17m 7s):
Yes. Yes, of course. Of course currently traveling is not as easy as it used to be. So I’m, I’m sure governments will require extra information. White people must travel and cannot, cannot avoid it, but we’re happy to, as always, we’re happy to, to help our, our clients with whatever we can. So if they need a visa invitation letter that States the reason why is they’re going to Spain of, of course we will provide them with, was that an with any help we can give

1 (17m 40s):
Now, what is the price going to be for a live entrance pass? And what’s the price for a virtual entrance pass

3 (17m 48s):
The price. The for life part will be the same as, as always our standard price of 399 euros per, per person. And again, as, as you know, there’ll be a lot of food included, a lot of drinks included. So people get, get their money’s worth. And obviously a lot of business networking as, as always the virtual tickets are for another week for, for free. So anyone can pick up a virtual ticket for, for free. That’s no reason not to not register. Yeah. That’s basically the pricing. Okay.

2 (18m 24s):
Okay. Now I understand you advise that people should not buy their flights and book their hotel rooms just yet.

3 (18m 32s):
Yeah, of course. Since, as of today, we do not know exactly the measures from the, from the Spanish government. So those we will know in the next couple of days, and again, there will not, I want to stress that there will not be enough entrance tickets for everyone for the life event. So if you buy an hour of flight and you book your hotel room and you sent me an email and say, Hey, I must have a ticket, sorry, it’s not going to work this time. I never understood people that first booked their flight. And first booked the hotel and don’t have an entrance ticket in their hand. So-so could be very good.

2 (19m 9s):
It’s called, it’s called it’s called ass backwards. Enteritis.

3 (19m 15s):
Yeah. And then I’m the bad guy and people say, you must, you must give me an entrance ticket because I already have my hotel and my, my, my, my flight. Nope, no, it does not work this time. So by your entrance tickets, see on June 1st, if you can get one of the few entrance tickets, and if that happens, then book your hotel and then book your, your flight because otherwise you might not get in. And then, okay. Then you might just have a nice vacation,

2 (19m 43s):
Nice vacation in Mirabelle exactly. Across the street from the hotel. So you can wave at everyone,

3 (19m 49s):
Which is not such a bad plan. No,

2 (19m 52s):
Not at all, man. I, you know, if I, if I ended up going to the live portion, which talking to you now, that’s sounding sounding better and better since I’m going to be getting vaccinated starting next week. Hey, you might just see me there, man, but I’ll, I’ll make sure I’ve got an entrance ticket. Of course, you know, me I’ll have a sponsorship, so I’ll have an entrance ticket. And one thing I should mention here on that end, I have only paid for a sponsorship with one show over the years. And that’s the different iterations of TES. Those of the, been the only ones that I have determined that I should be investing in.

2 (20m 34s):
So I don’t even know if you know that Andreas, but first time I invested was a first time I did a sponsorship was way back when I did the massage sponsorship in Prague. When I think it was Prague where you had the real strange hotel that year, how was, how was it different kind of place? And then, you know, over the years I’ve continued as a sponsor because it works. So anyone who’s on the fence about sponsoring do it. These guys do the job right now. You talked about live attendees. How many people in the end do you think are going to join the conference virtually?

3 (21m 15s):
That’s a good question. Obviously. I know. That’s why I asked it. We, we do have an internal bet. So Walter took the number 3000 attendees and put my money on 5,000 attendees. So I, the truth might be somewhere in between, but usually when it comes to those forecasts until now, I think I pretty much won any bet against Walter again, in, in, when it comes to attending numbers. So usually I’m not, not, not wrong often. So, but again, what does that 3000 people, I say 5,000 people and yeah, you will tell me on, on July 2nd with the winners.

2 (22m 2s):
Oh, that’s it. That’s interesting. Okay. Next time I go to the race track. I’m gonna, I’m gonna bring you with me. Okay. So let’s say you really managed to attract 3000 to 5,000 and I wouldn’t bet against you, by the way, to, to your a hybrid T S affiliate conference, how are these people going to be able to network and find each other? And also how are they going to be able to find the live in 10 days?

3 (22m 26s):
That’s a very good point. That’s, what’s also the reason we looked at various platforms to host our virtual, the virtual part of our conference. And we specially looked at the two heavyweights. There are only two in the market, which is hopping as you might know, umbrella. And so there’s no matchmaking function was hopping. So we decided against them Brella on the other hand has a very great networking functionality. So what we did is we first divided all the attendees into, into groups, like for example, at network affiliate program, if the affiliate program affiliates, hosting companies, payment providers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

3 (23m 19s):
So that’s a, that’s a main, main group. And those groups, then we subdivided by vertical. So for example, gaming, gambling, adult dating for ex neutral health, wealth, et cetera. So that will allow the attendees to say exactly, okay, I’m looking for a payment provider for dating, or I’m looking for an affiliate for Nutra, or I’m looking for an ad network that does all verticals. So you can, you can set up your, your request very, very, very detailed this time.

3 (24m 1s):
And then the system will sought the leads by the matches. So let’s say you met with someone five times, then he goes on the top. Then the next guy you match with, let’s say four times goes to the next and, and, and so on. So the more relevant leads will immediate jump on you. And then you only have to click set up a meeting, and then you can set up a meeting with, with your top lead and at your convenience and, and take it from, from there. So it’s, it’s, it’s highly efficient.

2 (24m 38s):
Cool. So people can already network and set up meetings as we speak,

3 (24m 42s):
Unfortunately, not, but only allows us to use the platform two weeks prior. But, but, but, but it also makes, makes sense because you want to have fun. You want to have a certain amount of people networking and beyond the platform at a time. So if we would launch it now, then there’s one guy in Asia and one guy in Latin America and on there, and nothing really happens. So then people get disappointed and say, what is this a is nothing happening here. But if we launch it two weeks prior, show everyone has two weeks to set up their schedule, which is more than, than enough if you’re serious, but then also on the, on you’ll see that there’s action on the, on the platform.

3 (25m 26s):
So there’ll be thousands of people on there at the same time. And then it becomes a lot, lot more interactive and fun if you see the things that are happening in more exciting. But, but yeah, so the rules from Brella, we can open two weeks before the show. And I think that’s plenty of time to get your schedule full of, of meetings. If you only have, if you, if you already have them, pre-arranged in front of you and you only have to click send meeting requests and written in and request, you should be done in a, in a couple of hours.

2 (25m 58s):
Yeah. I agree now with that being said, is this going to be the largest TES affiliate conference ever

3 (26m 5s):
Looking at the current numbers? For sure. I mean, we are with a set of 500 registration the first five days. If we would keep that up, you can make it to the mass. It will be huge numbers. So we’re now a quarter to our record after six, seven days, actually eight, seven days, seven and a half days. So yeah, we still got two months ahead of us. So unless something really, really, really, really terribly strange happens. Yeah. There’s no way that’s not going to be the largest show. We, I mean, we haven’t even started, started putting out paid advertising op, and so yeah, it, it, it will be the largest show for it, for sure.

3 (26m 50s):
No, no, no, no doubt. Sure.

1 (26m 53s):
Now the conference was scheduled for the second through the 5th of July, 2021. Now with the 4th of July being such a huge holiday in the U S do you, did you take this into consideration? And if so, how do you solve the problem?

3 (27m 9s):
To be honest, we did not take into consideration at the beginning. So what’s the huge screw up from what I might find. So, yeah, so that was really bad. But then luckily as always, our, our clients are taking care of us. So our, our clients are watching our backs. So I received an email that said, Hey, Andrea, as you are aware, this 4th of July is a huge holiday. I know it’s a huge holiday. And I know what I mean, water is hot, is half embarrassed. And he knows, I mean, I, I don’t know what, so, so, but long, long story short, we moved the, the, the virtual part of the conference to the second and the 3rd of July, so that it will be on the first two days of the, of the conference.

3 (27m 53s):
So the entire virtual part of the conference will be over by it. 10 o’clock, Los Angeles, time, 10 o’clock in the morning, Los Angeles time on the cert. So by noon on the third, everyone can be starting their long, 4th of July weekend. So yeah. Do work, work the second insert in the morning hours of the U S and then be done by 10:00 AM, Los Angeles time America, lots of people from New York get off a little bit earlier. Right. And then, yeah, your, your, your, your long weekend starts on the third at noon, which I think is fine.

3 (28m 35s):
So even on the cert, you can already party into the force without we’re over by then. So I think it’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s a decent, a decent fix call

1 (28m 45s):
Now, besides a very prominent owner of adult site broker. I can’t think of his name right now. Who else will be speaking at the conference?

3 (28m 54s):
Oh yeah. So many great speakers coming on board it’s it’s it’s, it’s amazing. It’s, it’s, it’s one of the few advantages that virtual has by a life in the past. We always managed to attract good speakers from, from all types of walks, people from the industry, but people also from outside of the industry to bring in knowledge and, and new ideas. But the good thing with virtual is usually when we bring in a, a good speaker, it costs us five digits and more in euros, but it was the virtual part. They can do it.

3 (29m 35s):
That’s no, no, no, no flight costs in involved. There’s no hotel cost involved. There’s no F and D costs involved so we can attract very good speakers with the lower budget. So that’s really one of the few advantages that I see in a live in a virtual event over life events. So the, the amount of, if anyone goes as of today, Tuesday to the schedule, you’ll see that this is the, the strongest schedule we’ve ever had in the past 12 years. By, by far, there, there, there are people like worldwide top 25 email market here is they’re they’re, they’re they’re really, really, I mean, they’re the top SEO experts really, really strong people that usually usually speak only speak at a conference with tens of thousands of attendees.

3 (30m 31s):
And we, we, we attracted them this time. So, so, and again, I mean, it’s only the ninth, 9th of May, as, as we speak, we, we got another two months to add speakers. Our, our, our, our issue will be more that we will not have have enough speaking slots because we’re already nearly, nearly full. And again, we have two months to go, but by quality, this is the best schedule by, by light years that we’ve ever ever offered to, to our attendees and people can, and people can watch it for free.

1 (31m 5s):
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So you’re going to have people from all over the world, as well as speaking and attending. How are you planning to deal with all these different time zones?

3 (31m 18s):
Yeah, that was kind of a challenge, but so I, I figured, yeah, the, the world Europe is kind of in the middle and depending what world map you take, but the one that I use has Europe in the middle. So it goes yeah, right to left from Australia to, to Los Angeles state, basically. So we figured that speakers that are relevant to the Australia, to the Asian and Australian market, or come from there, we, we schedule on the European time of 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock and 12 o’clock. So that allows people from Asia to, to watch those people in on their time zone.

3 (32m 5s):
Then Europeans come in, come on at one o’clock two o’clock, three o’clock. So that’s fine for everyone. And then the American speakers and audience comes on at four o’clock, five o’clock, six o’clock. So that is in the morning hours of the U S but morning, cool morning hours. Not, not middle of the night, so no, nobody has to get up for our virtual event. So, so whatever concerns the U S will be in the, in the, in the normal us morning hours, whatever happens concerns to the, to the, to Asia will be in the normal Asian evening hours.

3 (32m 46s):
And we’ll have a concern to Europe will be in the normal Europe, European afternoon hours. So nobody has to set the alarm to fall out of that, because I have heard that from other conferences now, of course, I mean, that’s,

2 (33m 3s):
I just ended up Scott. I just ended up skipping a bunch of them. Cause it was like, well, wait a minute. Do I really want to get up in the middle of the night for this? And usually the answer was no.

3 (33m 13s):
Yeah, no. I mean, people that are people that love what we do and then what motivated to work with us. But I mean, there’s a limit to what we can ask them.

2 (33m 20s):
Agreed, agreed. Now, now, coming back to what we spoke about at the beginning, isn’t it extremely expensive to host a virtual conference and between the cost of the virtual platform, the live streaming production company, the live chat software and the Q and it for the Q and A’s the live chat moderators, et cetera, this must be really expensive. And it’s also, as far as I know, the first of its kind, how are you and Walter going to manage to not have to take a major loss on the virtual part?

3 (33m 52s):
Honestly speaking, I don’t see things that we will manage. I think we will take a major loss. It’s also something, if we would’ve known that before, maybe we would have thought about it a couple more times because it’s, it’s something where you buy into something. And then later on you realize what, what comes on top. So basically the, the, the platform is, is a, is five digits. So there, I just taught water. Okay. It’s a marketing deck. We pay for, we, we, we lose that money and, and fine. But then once you get started with, with the, with the core platform, which you would sync core platform, core costs suddenly realized now for the live chat, you need to pay extra for the live streaming, which will be in video quality.

3 (34m 47s):
You can go low ball, then it’s free, or you can take real TV, studio, quality money into the hand, and then it’s, then it’s suddenly your lat, a larger costs than, than the platform. So imagine that, and then you have for the game-ification, you need something for, for, for, if you want to have a life TV, quality host for the virtual end, for the, for the life. Part of that, that’s big money. Then obviously if you offer a chat, you, you need a chat moderator. It’s not big money, but it adds up. And no, if you take all of this together, yeah. You’re easily looking 50 to a hundred thousand euros, which I did not expect at the beginning, just for, for a website to use, to have the right, to use the website.

3 (35m 33s):
So, no, it’s, it’s, it’s huge money. And obviously, yeah, I mean, people prefer to spend their life. I mean, it’s nicer to have a live booth in a virtual booth, but we have a couple of people who, who will support us and reduce that loss. But I, if we would, if we will break, even I would be really, really, really shocked. It’s not going to happen. But again, I mean, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a marketing expense. I mean, it keeps our brand out there. So people know that we’re not, that gives us something to talk about.

3 (36m 13s):
Talk about also, as I said, it gives us a, the possibility to tap into what’s possible future markets. So, I mean, it’s a small wet webmaster in, in Asia and in, or a medium webmaster in Asia, in the us or Latin America or Africa or Australia or wherever outside of Europe has to think twice. If he, if he books a flight for, for a thousand or more euros to a conference that he has never heard of a scene. So, but he can always go online for free now and check out what we do then. Yeah. He might say this, they look what they do looks it’s worthwhile.

3 (36m 58s):
I might might want to do that investment.

2 (37m 0s):
Yeah. I tell everybody I talk to in address, literally, I tell you, I talked to a guy today right before you, and I said, you know, you should go to this show and you know, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely a show that, that everyone in the industry should go to. Now. Now, if one of our listeners would like to support you guys in your effort to provide the industry with a solid virtual networking platform, are there still live or virtual sponsorships left? I hope so. Because as I told you, I’m going to do it. And if so, what kind of sponsorships will be available for your hybrid TES affiliate conferences in July, 2021? And we can’t forget September 20, 21.

3 (37m 43s):
Yeah. For the life part. It’s a, again, certain sponsorships obviously depend on, on what we hear back from the Spanish government. And then they lose government as a force. For example, as a foot today, I could not sell a bar sponsorship because bar areas are forbidden. So we would have to find a different solution. So it was, I would probably just walk waiter between the, the business launches and provide you cocktails because you are not allowed to stand in that the bar as of today. Also, we also, we cannot sell huge business launches because as of today, only six people are allowed to, to sit together. So certain things we still have to wait for a week to, to see how it pans out, but other things for the life part we can already offer.

3 (38m 31s):
The, the main thing we offer at the moment is a, is a business launch for, for people outdoors, with nice chill out garden furniture. Because we know as of today, we already are allowed to host groups of six, but we expect things to get better, but to be on the safe side, we just sell things before. So if in the unlikely things that things do go bad, for whatever reason, we still have the, the thing that the government can say, okay, we don’t allow you six anymore. Now we allow you four and we’re still fine. So we, we, we, we take a very conservative stance. They’re smart. That’s, that’s the live part. The virtual part obviously is easier.

3 (39m 13s):
So there will be virtual business launches where people can connect their Twitter account. They use YouTube account, the Instagram account, all, all the social media accounts for, for potential clients to check out. Also, it allows you to upload all type of, of information. So such as PDFs, PowerPoints, videos, images, any, any, anything that, that you have regarding your, your, your, your, your company speech, you can upload a promotional video. You can upload any, any type of digital data you can upload to your, the show business launch.

3 (39m 57s):
And also the business launch we’ll have a live chat function. So if someone comes along, you can pop you a message and say, Hey, can we set up a meeting? And then you can, yeah. Send them as a meeting offer. Also, the good thing is, I mean, you don’t have to be as the vegetables always. You can also just, just, if you’re, if you’re away from your desk, then someone sends a message. Hey, I want to meet you and see was, then you can always say, I’m back in an hour or, or a scheduled meeting with me at my, at my convenience, or I’m sleeping, or I’m sleeping. Yeah. You can, on your check, you can leave a message saying opening hours of my business launches off from whatever eight, until 10:00 AM, Los Angeles time and send people know what’s the best time is to hit your ops there.

3 (40m 50s):
So it’s a, it’s quite, it’s quite, quite good. And apart from that, you have people can, can buy what’s called a breakout room. So they’re, they can be with 50 people of which 12 people can be on screen with audio and video with them. That’s more, yeah. If you want to look sales pitch, then you sit in there and yeah. Everyone can listen to UNF. It’s, it’s very interactive. So since people on, on the, on the video, so they can ask you a question, you can immediately answer them and that’s another option to sponsor. So it’s very interactive in contrary to the, to speak on a stage, you know, stage small presentation.

3 (41m 37s):
But even that we will offer a Q and a session at the end so that people can, can ask you question. And, but again, the break it’s, the breakout rooms are more for, for corporate presentations, more interactive, and that’s another sponsorship. Yep. And then, yeah, the last one is the big one. Yeah. You can become a hat call a headlining sponsor. So that means that what we produce is TV quality. So like any, any TV station, broadcasting station they’ll, you can have video clips played before the speaker goes on the main stage. You can have video clips. Once a speaker is stunned with on the main stage can have a branded frame around the main speaker.

3 (42m 22s):
So that’s, that’s the top notch sponsorship. That’s the only four of those per poor main stage. How much, how much those costs. We priced them at 6,999 euros. But your brand is in all, all of the nine speeches on a, on the main stage. Yes. There’s no, there’s no way that people will, will overlook your, your brand. And obviously, obviously water and I will we’ll do additional sinks for, for, for this group of people. Obviously we’ll, we’ll spread it, spread that on, on social media, we’ll announce it in a newsletter.

3 (43m 4s):
We’ll, we’ll make sure that your investment is, is protected. And it’s always with us after the show, we will not disappear. If someone is not happy with what you paid and what we deliver. Walter and I are also available after the show at all, my clients have my email, my, my phone number, my, and my WhatsApp, my, my Skype, my Facebook messenger, my LinkedIn people, this we’re easy to find. And we usually respond with within 12 hours or less. So for us, it’s the deal is not, not written in stone, right?

3 (43m 44s):
So if they pay, pay that money and later on, they can justify that they didn’t make them money’s worth back or any of our sponsor ever. This goes to all our sponsors. If, if someone does not make his money back and he has a case, we will, we will be there after the show and we’ll solve it. I can give you an example. Don’t want to take too much time with that. But in Prague, in proc, we used to be in a hotel called taco bell. And that, that had a upstairs, the show area and downstairs pizza pizzeria, which we turned into a show floor.

3 (44m 25s):
So, because we didn’t have much space to grow there. So long story short, we, since it was a small hotel on only two levels, that there would be people downstairs, but no, everyone stayed upstairs. Nobody went downstairs. So, so, so it was a bad deal for the people downstairs. So even during the comp conference, on the last day of the conference, I went to all the sponsors downstairs. And I said, to look some your, your, your, your bank data next week, and I’ll refund you a half of your money. Right. And what’s that why I didn’t even complain. I haven’t complained have I?

3 (45m 5s):
And I said, no, you don’t have to complain. Right. It wasn’t fair. So we, we, we, we refund you. It’s a no-brainer and, and, and you see we, Walter, and I love to take your money. We will take your money, but we don’t want it for free. Right. It’s a very, it’s a very, no, but it’s very,

2 (45m 27s):
I remember, I remember years ago and I don’t want to bring up a sore subject, but I remember you had a, you had a show scheduled and the show didn’t end up happening. And a lot of people booked booked flights, and you actually sent an email out to everyone. And I remember this where you offered to refund, people’s airfares. Now I turned you down. Why did I turn you down? Because I have, I have too much respect for what you do. And I realized you lost more money than anybody on the thing. So there was no way I was going to make the pain, you know, pain worse. But I remember you doing that in dress. And that those are the, that’s the kind of business people, you and Walter.

3 (46m 6s):
Oh, we did it. I mean, costs are six digits and dollars. And, and, but, but, but, but again, I mean, that’s just good business sense. I mean, that’s good. It’s good business. It’s good. Exactly. We, we, we paid everyone’s flight. We, we, we lost the money on the test. Even if you had booked a hotel that wasn’t even the ShoreTel, we would refund you half the money you spent. But again, I mean, you lose money with us once and you don’t want it.

2 (46m 38s):
No, you don’t want people to remit. You don’t want people remembering that experience because in the end, in the end, you’re better off taking the financial blown now, then taking a blow to your reputation and turning people off. No, I completely would agree. And that’s, that’s the way you guys roll. And I really appreciate that. Now, now times are obviously unpredictable now, and we’ll kind of along the same lines of what we were talking about. What if someone buys a sponsorship and then isn’t allowed to travel to Spain in the end or even worse? What if there’s a there’s, you know, a, a new wave of COVID-19 are the sponsors going to lose their entire investment?

2 (47m 21s):
I think I know the answer, but I’ll let you answer.

3 (47m 26s):
Yeah, no, I I’ve seen that happened to people at a conference in the past. And I find that quite, quite, quite terrible. No, we’ll, we’ll do it. I mean, first of all, since time’s not unpredictable, as, as you said, we will not charge anyone until 1st of June until a month, really a month before the show, we will not charge anyone. So until then we only take risk-free reservations for sponsorships. So, so no, no risk to you until first off, 1st of June, really? So that’s already good. And 1st of June, the month out, everyone can make more educated decisions.

3 (48m 10s):
What, a month later, everyone not. So I think that’s quite fair.

1 (48m 14s):
Yeah. Yeah. And don’t, and don’t book your don’t book, your, your plane and hotel until, you know, until then.

3 (48m 22s):
Yeah. And then the other thing is obviously then a small time window between 1st of June and the event that, that one month there, our idea is that we will refund you 60% of what you paid us in cash. So let’s say you pay us on hundred. We’ll send you back the 60 and the other 40 are not, are not lost. They just get to credit it to the next conference. So the next time you wonder was also, you, you come, you already got 40 reserved for you. So bottom line, you’re not losing anything, right?

3 (49m 4s):
All your, all your money is still there. We’re not taking any of your money.

1 (49m 10s):
Let’s talk, you know, you mentioned future conferences. Let’s talk about Prague. And I know I’m going a little bit off script here, but I know it’s five months out. And I know there’s a lot of uncertainty at this point, but what’s your best

3 (49m 24s):
Guess on that? I assume things will look really, really good as set since, since a couple of days, I’m, I’m very positive about the future. If a large chunk of the European population will already be vaccinated in June, it it’ll only get better and better and more and more every month after. So by September, I expect us to be able to host the nearly normal conference. Obviously not going to be like our last one in 2019, but it will be fairly, fairly close. I expect us to.

3 (50m 5s):

1 (50m 7s):
I hope so. That’s a great show, man. That’s a great show

3 (50m 10s):
And it’s, we have a huge hotel. So even if, if there might still be social distance in place, which I, I doubt we could still put a lot of people in there. I mean, they’re big capacity. So even if you have to stay up a meter and a half away, and if you have to wear a mask, we can fulfill all of those things easily. It’s a big, big hotel. And so we will be able to host a significant number of live attendees. I’m I’m positive. Okay.

2 (50m 40s):
I’m, I’m planning on it, man. You know, up until recently, it was the only thing on my counter for 2021 outside, outside of being here. The only thing that I, that I said I’m going to do is go to Prague for TES. Other than that, I didn’t care. I really didn’t. Okay. Now, now, if people want to support and sponsor the conference, so who should they come?

3 (51m 4s):
They can contact me. So my email, most people will know it, but it’s a And then I’ll get back with them usually 12 hours or less. So again, it’s And yeah, we, we get back to you in the 12 hours or less

2 (51m 25s):
Andreas. You get back to me and you keep saying 12 hours. Usually if I contact you, you get back to me in 12 seconds or less. So that’s a, yeah, that’s a, that’s a long time for you now, what else can our listeners do to support Walter and yourself

3 (51m 41s):
As always was the life conference. But also with the virtual people always ask me, what, what can we do? The main things, talk about us, spread to the world, spread the word. That’s really, really the main, main thing people always want to do will be to come up with fancy things. How can we help you speak about us? Not, not nothing else. We, we ask for a post about us on if you had, if you attend our show post about it on, on, on your social media channels. If you like what we do speak about it on your social media panel. Talk to your invite, your business friends, especially this time. Now tickets are free. Tickets are free.

3 (52m 21s):
They’re not going to get any cheaper. So tell people, I mean, especially like, for example, you, you you’re you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re a speaker. I mean, imagine anyone, anyone on the planet can listen to your speech now for free, for free. Why ship? Why shouldn’t you invite your potential clients to check you out for free? So, I mean, yeah, maybe you’re not part of the inner, inner inner circle of what we used to do because we were very European. We were very much dating Donald high-risk, et cetera, but now it’s a new world. I mean, you can be in, in Indonesia kombucha, you can be in wherever and you can be in any industry and you can communicate with anyone.

3 (53m 11s):
And we give you a platform in the middle that pre pre pre sorts you who is there. And if you, if you come in and you see it, I want to have, I don’t know, gaming field yet. And yeah, if you see there, I don’t know, a hundred contexts, you stay on the platform for free, for free business for free. And if you see it, you come in and there’s nobody with that characteristics on the platform you lost one minute and you go and you should also zero a year or so. So why would someone not, not take off, take off this offer? Right?

2 (53m 45s):
Right. No, I agree. I agree. Now, now we’ll all TES affiliate conferences in the future. Have a hybrid conference format. Do you think

3 (53m 54s):
The short answer is yes. The large longer one is unless the financial losses are too over whelming. The good thing is if times go back to normal, we make diff w we have a good, good turnover with a good income with, with the life part. It’s too fine, doing fine. And then water. I just have to agree that we want to earn less. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s just such a disposition. It’s just a Walter. And I saying, we want to, in the end of the year, as a private person, half less in our wallet, so less for our family, less for our kids, less for vacations, it’s it?

3 (54m 41s):
It is that sacrifice that we do for, for the ability for the industry. But again, it is a marketing tool. It allows people to check us out. It gives us worldwide reach and it keeps the brand out there. It all depends how much it hurts. I mean, if we, if we lose a little money, we’ll do it for sure. If we lose a lot of money, we’ll do it. If it becomes completely Gaga, then we will have to have a serious talk because we’re talking about purposely taking a loss. Right. And that obviously any business person that’s a little bit clever would never do that.

2 (55m 25s):
Oh, look, you know, you know what, you know what Andrew asked the way I look at it. I think it’s a loss now for a gain later. I don’t think you would do it. If you don’t think, if you didn’t think it would help you long-term. And I think, like you said, the more people who get acquainted, more people are going to attend the live shows and more people are going to sponsor. And I cannot stress enough to people. Look, I looked at the sponsorship and went, Hmm, really? Okay, should I do this? And then I thought about it more. And I thought, yeah. And I’m going to do this for one simple reason is because the job you guys do and the product you put out needs to be supported.

2 (56m 7s):
And I hope that everyone who sponsors shows or who can sponsor shows does a sponsorship here because they should, okay. And maybe they might look at it and go, okay, it’s a little expensive for virtual sponsorship. I get that. But you know what, it’s worthwhile because sponsoring your shows will help people. And I know that because that’s my experience.

3 (56m 36s):
Yeah. Again, I mean, as I said, if we, if we lose some, okay, but it has also always been our model. We first provide a good product and then we ask, ask money for it. Never the other way around. No, you usually people are very focused on earning money. And so they will say, ah, okay, you pay me this. And that is what you get. And that’s normal in business. It’s very simple. If you want to buy a, buy a car or some shoes or whatever, underwear, doesn’t matter, the guy will say it, put that money on the table and I give you that.

3 (57m 16s):
So we have a very strange way of doing business. We usually say, okay, we give you this. And if it works for you, you will eventually pay us. Well,

2 (57m 28s):
Look how long it took to Amazon to, to make money.

3 (57m 31s):
We’ve always done business the way where we said good things will happen. So if, if, if I do something for you, you don’t have to pay me. It will come back. I mean, if I do something good for you and it makes you money and you’re happy with me, you don’t have to pay me. It will compact. You, you will, you will tell a business friend of yours about us or you, you you’ll make, mention it on a board or on Facebook or wherever, or eventually you’re small and we help you to grow for free. And at some point suddenly you are earning money and you’re like, Oh, that money. Some of it I owe to those people. No, I mean, I will never send you say you owe it to me, but business people will say, why do I have this money?

3 (58m 18s):
Partly it comes from them. And then suddenly people that have grown with us say, Oh yeah. Now I should probably buy a sponsorship. I should make it. Right. And obviously, I mean that we’ll use some bad apples that we’ll just say, Oh, thanks for the free business, a loser. I take it. Ha ha for sure. I mean, you always have a such people, but the far majority of the people out there are good people and they’ll say, Oh wow, you’ve done so much for me. How can I pay you back? And they, it always, what goes around, comes around.

2 (58m 53s):
No, I, I agree with you wholeheartedly, you know, and I’ll give people an example. You know, I recently started a casino site, and we’re, we’re entering the, the area of, of broker and casinos. And I mentioned this to you and you turned me on to a contact and this guy has been, and I haven’t even told you this. This guy has been of amazing value to me in that space where I knew nobody. And he was your counterpart with, you know, the, the, the casino shows. And it’s that kind of benefit of doing business with you guys that even goes over and beyond the growth that my business has seen from sponsoring your shows and from attending your shows.

2 (59m 40s):
So, no, I, I can’t tell people enough that it’s, it’s well worthwhile to support what you guys do now. What other interesting projects apart from T E S do you have lined up for people listening?

3 (59m 54s):
Yeah. Basically two, one is already existing. It’s not existing. It’s coming back. We, we, we never wanted to do an Island gathering again, but more people keep asking more and more often. So we, we, we decided to bring it back in the original form. So it will be in the, in the Marriott, in, in Curacao. Like it has always when’s it going to be? That is a good question. First, we had a down for November, 2021. So this November, then Covid got really bad.

3 (1h 0m 34s):
And again, as a set, I, my predictions were bad. So we said, okay, we push it to November, 2022. Now suddenly your predictions are looking very, very well. So I will be speaking to the Marriott next week, if we want to push it to back to November, 2021, again, because by then I think life, the, the world will look really good. And I think people will be really ready to have a vacay or a business V vacate on a, on a beautiful Caribbean Island. Yeah, I’m ready.

3 (1h 1m 14s):

2 (1h 1m 14s):
You did it. You did it one year here in Thailand. Actually

3 (1h 1m 18s):
We did, we did one in, we did one. I wish you’d bring it back. We will see. We’ll see. I think we, we, we will bring it back. I mean, w w when we launched it, we had the idea that that was something that you want to do a couple of every couple of years. I mean, such an event is not needed every year. Nobody wants to do it’s all CEOs and company owners, and nobody wants to, they are also families and they don’t want to go away every year. So our idea was to, to do it every couple of years, but then people hit me up and said, Hey, if you don’t do it next year, then the competition will step in.

3 (1h 1m 60s):
You have to do it. And a stupid Mia said, Oh yeah, you have a point. And then we did it every year. And that was where everything went that. So then, because the first one to went out, worked out well, and then it got worse and worse. I think we learned something from it, but now it has been six, seven years that we done one, I would have won the, the time has come, that we can bring it, bring it back again. But after, after that, after that, do we do it every second or third year or every fifth or every 10th year will not, not be a yearly event again, because it’s stupid. I mean, also it’s company owners. It’s the big dogs and they don’t change from year to year.

3 (1h 2m 45s):
I mean, the industry doesn’t change from year to year. It takes two, three, four times, four years for a change to happen that you actually notice. So why meet with the same people every year? It doesn’t make sense. So currently we could say maybe, probably every five years and, and, but then you have different people in five years, the, the, the, the landscape at least has changed. So there’s some value to what we’re doing. And yeah, if in the meantime, the competition wants to step in be my guests, because I know the numbers and the numbers are not as great as you think.

2 (1h 3m 22s):
Well, they won’t do as good of a show. Definitely. Well, Hey, Andrea. So I’d like to thank you again for being our guest today on adults. I broke her talk and I hope we’ll get a chance to do this again soon before.

3 (1h 3m 33s):
Yeah. Sounds, sounds good. One, one last thing that I forgot to mention was, yeah, we’re also thinking about maybe, maybe doing something more, more mainstream, also totally separate separate project. So probably less of relevance to your, to your listeners, but I want to throw it out there. Is that because then currently it’s, it has become over the years, a very mixed back, and I’m not sure if everyone is really happy was that so we could pay a P S a little bit more into the high-risk risk, like what the banks would call the high risk market gaming, gambling, dating, whatever the bank would call high risk, and then have a second totally separate new online advertising conference is really just targeted to, to the low-risk.

3 (1h 4m 30s):
It’s a good idea of take, take, take a different, that’s a good idea. So, because if we mix it more and more, I think we, we will alienate our existing clients. The, the, the, the new people are not happy and nobody’s happier. So, so maybe better to do two, two shows, Wells and one show that’s totally, that doesn’t have any, any restructure anymore.

2 (1h 4m 56s):
Sounds good. Well, Andreas, thanks again for being with us. My broker tip today is part seven of what to do to make your site more valuable for when you decide to sell it later, let’s talk about some of the factors that influence the sale price of a website. Number one is always profit. It will be a multiple of the profit and that multiple is based on whether the profit is trending up or trending down

1 (1h 5m 19s):
And how fast it’s trending up or down. I’ve seen valuations of as much as five times, although that’s very rare. Normally it’s in the two and a half to three and a half area. I’ve also seen valuations of one time. If the profit is taking a nose, dive, if a site hasn’t been monetized, then it’s all about the amount and the quality of the traffic. If a sale is based on traffic, it will be a multiple of what the traffic would sell for on the open market. What are the sources of traffic direct traffic search engine, traffic and reviewed traffic are the most valuable tube. Traffic is the least valuable. Is the traffic reliable and sustainable? What is the traffic history?

1 (1h 6m 0s):
In a rare case, the valuation will be based upon revenue. The same factors apply to that as to profit and the valuations will, of course be lower than those of profits. How old is the website? Is the domain or something else? Dot com is still King. What is it? Alexa rating, how many inbound links are there? How much staff does it take to run the site? How many email addresses do you have in the case of a dating site? This is very important. Another factor can be the reverse engineering cost. How much would it cost to build the site from scratch and drive the same amount of traffic to it, and how much time would be involved?

1 (1h 6m 41s):
What is the lifetime value of a customer on the site next week? How to buy a website. And next week we’ll be talking to .

0 (1h 6m 55s):
And that’s it for this week’s Adult Site Broker Talk. I’d once again, like to thank my guest, . Talk to you again next week on Adult Site Broker Talk. I’m Bruce Friedman.

0 (7s):
This is Bruce Friedman of Adult Site Broker and welcome to Adult Site Broker Talk, where every week we interview one of the movers and shakers of the adult industry, and we discuss what’s going on in our business. Plus we give you a tip on buying and selling websites this week. This week we’ll be talking with Shakun Sethi of Tickle dot life.

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1 (1m 25s):
Now let’s feature our property of the week. That’s for sale at adult site broker, The ultimate internet domain is now available, and we are proud to list it. The domain gets 6 million unique visitors a month. This domain can be used for any of a number of uses. The opening bid is only $35 million. Now time for this week’s interview. My guest today is Shakun Sethi, the founder and CEO of Shakun thanks for being with us today on adult side broker talk, thank you so much, Bruce, for inviting me and letting me put across the message resonates with I’m so excited and really, really looking forward to talking to you today.

1 (2m 10s):
As my now tickled out life was started as a quest to find the right sex toy. They spent two years looking for the right people to talk to. This is what led to the creation of In 2019, the company is based in San Francisco, is the world’s first discovery platform or sexual wellbeing meets lifestyle, intend to not just normalize conversations around sexual wellbeing. They want to become a safe and responsible platform that furthers industry interests and sensitizes the society about sexual needs and possibilities. believes in promoting a sex positive environment that is safe, inclusive, free of judgment, and that respects your privacy.

1 (2m 56s):
Now Shaq Coon is the founder and CEO of She has over a decade of experience and community management, international communications, brand management, and digital media. Inclusivity is paramount for her. And that is evident in her work. She supports fundraising for various social causes and supports various NGOs. Now let’s start out with the basics. What exactly is

2 (3m 23s):
What are you trying to do with the is create an ecosystem where it becomes easier for people to discover, not just things about sexual wellbeing, but also for the industry to discover different resources, different infrastructure, different, you know, partners that they can be looking out for. And hence we call it a discovery platform. We just want it to be, we just want the industry as a whole. We just want the messaging of sexual developing, discoverable all across the world.

1 (3m 55s):
Okay. Is it more, is it more of a B2B or a B to C platform?

2 (4m 2s):
We are more of a B2C platform, but what has happened is because you would know, and all the listeners would know because from the industry, they just realize that it becomes very, very difficult to go into the market because of shadow banning, because you know, there are platforms which are not sex positive. So even when we had to Cru, it became very important for us to go out and create those products and services so that we could grow. And while we were doing this, we just realized that, you know, we just can’t keep them to ourselves. We would have to get them to the industry as well. So technically we are still B to C because we are trying to grow, but we do understand while we are doing it, we are creating services.

2 (4m 45s):
We are creating technology, which will help the industry as a whole. And we’ve started giving it out to the industry as well.

1 (4m 53s):
Okay. If I go to, what am I going to find? There

2 (4m 59s):
You go to find over 350 collaborations between industries, between individuals academicians, between influencers, what talking about sexual wellbeing all across, and that’s what is shown to the end-user. Second thing. What you’re going to see is you’re going to find the biggest listing service of sex, positive podcasts in the world. Third, what you’re going to find is you’re going to find the services that we were talking about, which via using and which we want to give to the industry. Like we became the first podcast hosting service, which was completely sex positive that has not happened before, because if it was really look at any of the services that are available, they will always have a cave.

2 (5m 47s):
It in their terms and conditions that if suppose something goes explicit or suppose something, which, which the team things, or the legal team, things that is is, is not, is this is, you know, related to sex. They would not allow it, or they might ban it. That’s going to be coming to, you know, it doesn’t matter if you use a dome like adult, it doesn’t matter if you use the term like sex as long you’re talking about something, which is related to your wellbeing for the user’s wellbeing. We are. Absolutely. Okay. So I’m alteration works in a completely different manner. We are never going to shut. And you just, because you’re talking about sex, because we created the service for ourselves and we have a sex positive podcast.

2 (6m 29s):

3 (6m 30s):
Right. Yeah. It’s, it’s kinda like so many vendors that we have to deal with in the industry, whether it be banks, processors, social media platforms in general, it seems like more and more and more they’re they’re banning adult come.

2 (6m 51s):
Absolutely. And you know, that was the thing because when we started, so me and my co founder, we come from the startup world and we never understood like, what exactly we were trying to resolve or solve. We just knew that this is what we wanted to do. We wanted to make sexual wellbeing discoverable to see, we actually put the, there are two main problems in the industry right now industry, or in fact like industry would be a wrong term. I would say in the world, number one is it’s difficult to discover, like click you actually just, just informed people about who I am. And it took two years to find the right people. Just imagine if I desperately needed somebody.

2 (7m 32s):
It just is a deterrent to my growth as a person. Yeah. So what, number one is discoverability. And you know, the reason why the discoverability is an issue because of shadow banning, because other platforms, and we don’t even say that those platforms are doing something wrong. That’s their market, that’s their business. So we are not there to point fingers at them, right. Because that’s, at least, at least we are not taking God. Like you just believe. Yeah. We just think that this is an opportunity to work and they would never ever understand what exactly we need that only we can understand now as an industry.

3 (8m 10s):
Okay. Now you’re from, you’re from India. How sex positive and open are they there about all this?

2 (8m 18s):
Yes, it is. Somebody was asking me this question and I see a very, very interesting change happening. So India is right now in the stage of awareness. And we’re just talking about sexual wellbeing. I’m not talking about a adult toys being sold, the consumption of content. I’m just talking about as the, as, as the, you know, like how we have evolved, it’s still at the first stage of awareness and that’s when the exploratory stage comes. So I would just say that, you know, we had at the first stage, but, but people are getting positive. It’s divided into two, some cities, some population is really evolved that really want to talk about things like we do have different rooms set up on different platforms on our platform.

2 (9m 7s):
And we do see that people from India come, they ask questions and they have genuine relevant questions they have relevant needs. Yes. So I’ll just say that, you know, we are still at the awareness level because a lot of them on an average are related to what is this, rather than opt to use this. So, so that’s a positive input. It’s just like, it will take a lot of time. But if you really think about it, even if there’s a very small percentage of people who are ready to explore, the population is so high, that it would be equivalent to, you know, maybe like population of another country altogether. Yeah.

3 (9m 48s):
Yeah. The, the old, the old world is still coming to grips with things happening in the news.

2 (9m 55s):
Yeah. And I just think that, you know, people, especially during COVID, it just gave a very big opportunity for people to explore and to ask themselves what is happening, what do I want, you know, rather than what somebody else would want, or what would people think, because you’re just, you’re stuck inside your house. Then you start thinking just about yourself. So the time the, the biases that have been created with the adult industry or sexual wellbeing industry has a lot to do with the taboo and the devil comes from the society. So when you’re already doing, you know, like not a part of society anymore, thanks to Kobe that what are you going to do?

2 (10m 36s):
You’re are going to start exploring yourself. Yeah.

3 (10m 38s):
Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s pretty male dominated there.

2 (10m 42s):
And what in India mainly dominated as the industry?

3 (10m 46s):
No, I’m just, I’m just talking about, I’m talking about the society

2 (10m 50s):
Or, or

3 (10m 51s):
Is that, or, or is that not the case anymore?

2 (10m 54s):
I would just, I would just say that, you know, it’s just not India because, because when, when you just started, like, at least when I started being a woman and I just thought that, you know what, Oh, you know, there are these problems which happen in India. It’s a male dominated country. You know, people would not talk about sex. People would be very judgmental if I go out and tell them that, you know, this is what you’re getting into, when it’s completely completely about sex and sex, it will be, people are gonna judge me. But interestingly enough, that did not happen. Yeah, absolutely. It’s, it’s really, really good. Like I spent two years just to think that, am I ready for this?

2 (11m 36s):
I think I should not have used those two things just to think I should have just done it. Yeah. And the same kind of experiences I’m also experiencing across the world. Right. So it’s not very different. The only difference is again, the inquisitive newness or the level of understanding, or the level of doing it’s, it’s a bit less because there are greedy communities, there are kinky people there everything’s happening, but it’s all hypergraph

3 (12m 7s):
Everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Of course. Yeah.

2 (12m 10s):
It’s more on the ground help. That’s how I,

3 (12m 13s):
And, and through it, a lot of Asia, maybe not as much here in Thailand, but to a degree, it is, there’s still a lot of traditionalism. And now obviously you’re in your infancy with the platform. What are your plans for the, for the

2 (12m 31s):
Based simplifying something, which is, which is very obvious. And which has to be done is to bring anybody and everybody who is in the sexual wellbeing industry together. Because as we do not come together, we would not be able to make the impact that it’s needed globally. So it’s about, let’s create a community, let’s provide information, which the end user or your customer or people who are really looking out for it and even not looking out for it get, so once that is done, there are so many things that can be done. But like, if you just think about from the revenue point of view, we are maturing into, like I said, that we have started providing a lot of services, which we were using or which we are using or which we will be developing for the industry.

2 (13m 17s):
Yeah. So it just makes it easy that, Hey, how do you work on it? Or what is the difference? Like a base model example, when we had to hire somebody internally for search engine optimization, it took us so long to find the right people, because they did not understand. They would categorize us as somebody who is running upon site because the keywords are similar because they don’t know. It’s just a very, very niche understanding. And then we started creating that capability internally. And that’s how we also are in a position to say that, Hey, do you need SEO? Which is for your industry, come let’s, let’s have a chat.

2 (13m 59s):
Let’s see, how do we make it happen? Same thing goes with the podcast hosting service. Same thing goes with in future newsletters, like our new setup, whenever we send. And most of the other people who would send, they would go in span as does not. Unless you feel like you flagged it, that it has to go in spam. It would not. And our open rate is 20%, which is even further consumer. Good. Yeah.

3 (14m 25s):
I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got a guy that does it for me and I pay him well. And yeah, I get those kinds of open rates too, but it’s not easy. And you better be.

2 (14m 37s):
Absolutely. And now that we have created that system and it’s all automatic and on top of that, we actually are trying to make the industry self sufficient, that he will take a few classes. We’ll take a few, you know, like coaching for you. How do you make that email that does not go to the spam? Yeah. So it’s more of a handholding because that’s how the community works and you have to help each other. So it’s just not about, you know, this like, Hey, you know what? You pay us money and we will do it. Let’s do it together. So that if tomorrow you want to start doing it on your own, you can do it.

3 (15m 11s):
I’ll be in that. I’ll be in that class, sign me up.

2 (15m 17s):
You’re launching it very soon. I’ll show you as a team to send you an email, but, but that’s what we want to do. Like I said, that, you know, everybody has to work together and everybody can not work together. If you’re just thinking of yourself as a tech company, we don’t want to think of ourselves as a tech company. You want the change to happen. We want another front to be created, which is a sexual wellbeing trend. So that tomorrow, whenever I have kids and if they go, they do not have to be ashamed or they do not have to know or say that. I don’t know.

3 (15m 50s):
Fantastic. And now how are you finding the intersection between content and infrastructure

2 (15m 57s):
Phase in blue and basally done? I’m just being more than steel. It’s not, but still, so what we do is we start, we have, our content is more like an aggregator platform, right? So people who are writing content onto their platforms or have, have a lot of content, which is just lying around or, you know, or it’s completely completely hidden on, on the Google ranking. We ask them why don’t we start showcasing it on to our platform. So we actually ended up creating micro sites for everyone. Nice. So when microsites are created, that’s one part second phase, it is, we would also ask a lot of those people because we’re also providing traffic to give, you know, new content pieces, because we also have to work on the SEO part.

2 (16m 47s):
You need new content, you need old content. You need people to actually, you know, there are a lot of questions that keep on coming. So we need content created from that angle. So a lot of people also provide the new content pieces, especially who do not have blocks. And the third is what provides. So we also provide content onto the farm as, as a, as an entity, we do not provide like, Hey, you don’t want it’s us so we can put anywhere. We also have a microsite for us. So it becomes like multiple microsites and those microsites can be used any way. You can, you can use it to publicize yourself. You can use it just to showcase your work experience.

2 (17m 28s):
You can use it to showcase what kind of writings you have or what, what process you have from the industrial point of view. Same thing we do with podcasts. So anybody who hosts a podcast or do also is also gets a microsite so that Microsoft will have all the links of all the different platforms that you are on. Usually we share on four, but with a lot of people, they just ended up saying that, Hey, you know what? I get traffic from an XYZ platform. Can I showcase that also? Which is absolutely fine. And we can do it. So that’s that. And the third and the last one is, but when listing a lot of podcasts and a lot of video content platforms, so they also get the micro-sites.

2 (18m 11s):
So suppose if tomorrow you list your podcast on, which I would love. If you work, you have over like 300 plus podcasts. Yeah. So you get, you know, like you actually get a microsite and that micro-sites looks pretty, you know, it has explanation because you just keep on asking people, Hey, are you on Spotify? Are you on iTunes? Suppose if I was not on iTunes and you share Spotify link, I would never go. Right? But here, all the links are together. You did not have to go and work on creating your website care of it. It just becomes like a big, big marketplace that your details, people can connect with you on your social networks, on your email, on

2 (19m 0s):
And that’s how it actually ends up, you know, maturing into that’s the content. Have

3 (19m 5s):
You ever been told? You’re a very good salesperson.

2 (19m 9s):

3 (19m 10s):
Okay. Well, I’m telling you, and I’m a good sales person myself. Now your platform says you have over 350 collaborators. Please elaborate on these who these people are. And maybe you can highlight some for us.

2 (19m 25s):
So three 50, what we did was we actually sat with people with advisors who are from the industry to identify what are the different categories, which people look out for. So it could be like, you know, age wise, it could be interest wise. And once we did that, we started identifying people who are writing or who are talking on those fields. So, so like we have Dr. Lee Phillips, who’s writing about disability. Hm. You know, sex and disability. If suppose somebody comes and they look out for it, they know that, you know, they can, they’ll just go and search because it’s like a search engine. You go search, you might find writings by leaflet.

2 (20m 7s):
And once you do that, you’d start connecting with that person. We do have few, we actually have a bond, which is a woman Cedric.

3 (20m 18s):
Oh, yes. I know her and her husband. Yes. Yeah. Collins. Colin’s been on my show. I just, I’m waiting for Angie to reply to my emails. Maybe she’ll hear this.

2 (20m 32s):
I think the grade and what has happened is a lot of people in, at least in India have started understanding. And you know, they, they have been times when I’ve been on some rooms, like live sessions, and they’ve said like, Hey, be VSP, soul dotcom, you and I’m woman. Do you think this platform is for me? Should I go, should I check it out? So that actually directly indirectly helped them.

3 (20m 55s):
Oh sure. Oh, sure. They’ve won what? They’ve won many awards. That, that site. Yes.

2 (21m 1s):
Yeah. The, the, the, the, the music, I don’t have words.

3 (21m 5s):
Yeah. It’s fabulous. It’s a fabulous.

2 (21m 9s):
Absolutely. Then we have your toy because like production houses, we actually have few other content platforms as well. Who are our partners? You know? So it’s just all across, all across the, the fields. So sometimes, you know, I actually like, you know, how do you play roulette? I just go onto the platform. And I just type a random dome that have gone across, because I’m also learning about sexuality. And interestingly enough, you end up finding at least one multimedia piece that could be a podcast episode. That could be obedient. That could be a content piece. That could be an expert. So you end up finding something at least happening there.

2 (21m 51s):
And that’s, what’s fabulous about it.

3 (21m 53s):
Cool. Cool. Now tell me some more about you. We D I, I did a pretty lengthy bio. You’ve done a lot in your life. Tell me some more about you.

2 (22m 4s):
I’m more of a crazy person. If I think that, you know, there’s something interesting happening. And if there are a lot of questions that needs to be explored, because every question and every problem has a solution, and that’s how I think at least I’m so crazily, happily involved with the colored lines, because there are so many, but every problem has a solution. And that’s like the fun part here. I’m from India. I love traveling. I travel all across the world. I don’t even need anybody and just school and travel most of the time, pre COVID and hopefully post COVID.

2 (22m 45s):
You might find me sitting in a cafe all by myself and looking at people. And that was actually like the fullest idea or the full question for sex or for sexual wellbeing started in a cafe when I was just looking at people and watching something, watch porn on the phone. And I was just like, Oh my God. You know, he’s so happy.

3 (23m 12s):
I hope, I hope, I hope both his hands were showing, but anyway,

2 (23m 17s):
Yeah, it was a Starbucks.

3 (23m 19s):
Ah, well, you never know. I’ve heard it done on an airplane, so you just never know.

2 (23m 25s):
Yeah. Okay. You’ve completely spoiled this memory for me now.

3 (23m 30s):
I’m sorry. I’m a guy. I’m a guy. I can ruin anything.

2 (23m 35s):
I was just focusing on the phase and the thing, and they’re all so happy, but, but yeah, so, you know, that’s, that’s what exactly who I am. Yeah. I come from like a very interesting region in India, which we’ve seen a lot of ups and downs, political upheavals, and that’s exciting as well in a way, but that actually makes you more evolved and understand integrities and understand the life is really, really important. Yes. I was in Netherlands for awhile. That’s where I did my post-graduate graduation and a lot again, is doing.

2 (24m 16s):
And my interest in sexuality comes from there. That was the sex toy shop for you and having fun living life finding solution. I’m pretty, pretty sure we will be able to create the big ecosystem as the full front, which this world needs, which all of us need.

3 (24m 37s):
Absolutely. So talk about the sexual wellbeing industry. The difference between that in North America and in India, we talked